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Speaker 1: From Mahart where Innovation, Money and power Collie in Silicon Valley, Nbonn.

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Speaker 2: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlove.

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Speaker 3: Live from New York.

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Speaker 4: This is Bloomberg Technology coming up, Bitcoin blast past one

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Speaker 4: hundred thousand dollars. We dig into the positive sentiment, including

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Speaker 4: the sec share announcement.

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Speaker 3: Plus it's TikTok for TikTok as.

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Speaker 4: A social media joant anxiously awaits the legal decision on

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Speaker 4: its upcoming US ban and geopolitical risks across Europe and

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Speaker 4: Asia are bound, but US stock stay near records. Can

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Speaker 4: tech keep American exceptionalism alive? But first, let's checking on

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Speaker 4: these markets, because that exceptionalism just takes a turn to

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Speaker 4: the downside, off by two ten percent on the Nasdaq

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Speaker 4: one hundred. But look, we are so close to the

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Speaker 4: record highs that we saw across benchmarks yesterday. We have

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Speaker 4: some nervousness ahead of the non farm pay rolls tomorrow

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Speaker 4: as job as claims come in today, and we still

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Speaker 4: look at what's happening geopolitically speaking, Chips to the downside,

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Speaker 4: Tesla to the upside as it gets basically a bit

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Speaker 4: more optimism coming from Bank of America as they go

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Speaker 4: to visit that gigafactory, move in on some of the

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Speaker 4: other asset classes of choice. Here on the Tech show,

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Speaker 4: bitcoin one hundred thousand, we're currently one hundred and one thousand.

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Speaker 4: We went past one hundred and three thousand earlier, up

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Speaker 4: three point six percent. Why a whole fledge of positive sentiment.

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Speaker 4: Maybe it's a little bit to do with FED chair

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Speaker 4: J Powell yesterday a deal book saying it's akin to gold.

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Speaker 4: We've also got putin saying that he wouldn't be in

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Speaker 4: any way restraining crypto. But then you have the all

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Speaker 4: important Paul Atkins announcement announcement. Let's go to that with

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Speaker 4: Bloomberg's Mike Shephard now because we do have someone from

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Speaker 4: the Trump administration future administration SEC chair pick Paul Atkins,

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Speaker 4: and just give us his background.

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Speaker 3: Why is he seen as crypto friends.

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Speaker 1: Well, he has emerged after years of being a well

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Speaker 1: known regulator here in Washington. He previously served on the

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Speaker 1: SEC as a commissioner during the George W. Bush era,

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Speaker 1: so he has the street cred as a regulator. But

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Speaker 1: more recently he has emerged as an advocate for digital

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Speaker 1: currency and fintech, and so naturally investors around the world

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Speaker 1: were so encouraged to see Donald Trump select him as

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Speaker 1: the incoming SEC chair. During the presidential campaign, Trump really

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Speaker 1: advocated for changes in US policy toward digital currency. He

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Speaker 1: wants to make the US a crypto hub, and one

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Speaker 1: of the keys to that is making changes at the SEC,

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Speaker 1: which under President Joe Biden, has cracked down on this

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Speaker 1: market after seeing some excesses we saw during twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: two with fraudulent behavior that the current agency chair, Gary Gensler,

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Speaker 1: singled out. But Trump has called for a change, and

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Speaker 1: the crypto industry investors who supported his candidacy also wanted

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Speaker 1: to see a change of the agency, hence their encouragement.

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Speaker 4: Now and as you say, someone who has not only

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Speaker 4: served on the SEC before as a commissioner, but someone

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Speaker 4: who then gone on to advise fintech, in particular crypto companies.

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Speaker 4: But just tell us a little bit more other than crypto.

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Speaker 4: How else is he going to be facing the financial markets?

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you brought that up, Caroline, because he

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Speaker 1: is far from a one trick pony. As I said,

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Speaker 1: he is a seasoned regulator, one of the analysts that

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Speaker 1: our colleagues spoke to yesterday after he was named, referred

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Speaker 1: to him as the godfather of conservative capital markets ideology,

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Speaker 1: and that is a big statement. But he will be

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Speaker 1: coming in there with an agenda to make broader changes

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Speaker 1: at the agency which oversees how markets report to investors

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Speaker 1: and how companies report to investors in markets, and we

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Speaker 1: will be looking possibly for changes and disclosure rules and

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Speaker 1: also easing up perhaps of some the heavier fines that

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Speaker 1: we've seen the SEC and POST under Gary Gensler. That

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Speaker 1: is something that Atkins has singled out in the past,

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Speaker 1: and we can look to him to try to target

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Speaker 1: that again in the future.

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Speaker 4: Mike Shephard, with all the context, we thank you for

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Speaker 4: more on the border implications for the crypto market. Katherine

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Speaker 4: Dowling's with us bitwise asset Management, General Counselor and chief

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Speaker 4: compliance officer. And Catherine, I mean, just first and foremost

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Speaker 4: more than one hundred thousand dollars for people who've been

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Speaker 4: in crypto for a long time, that must feel extremely vindicating.

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Speaker 5: It does, and thanks so much for having me this morning.

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Speaker 6: It was fun to watch it go over six digits

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Speaker 6: last evening and to see it continue to hold.

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Speaker 4: Today when you think of the fund side on one,

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Speaker 4: but also then the realities of what perhaps pull Atkins

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Speaker 4: could mean. Dig in a little bit to the SEC announcement,

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Speaker 4: what you made of it?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? Absolutely.

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Speaker 6: First off, leading up to this announcement, really all the

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Speaker 6: names that were floated were positive.

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Speaker 5: So we had that.

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Speaker 6: We knew it was going to be better, So there

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Speaker 6: was really no wrong answer. But in this choice, it's

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Speaker 6: a great choice. Quite simply, you have somebody who can

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Speaker 6: hit the ground running. He has been a commissioner before.

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Speaker 6: He knows how the commission works. And one really important

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Speaker 6: factor that we're hearing about Paul Atkins is he gets

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Speaker 6: along with people. You can't underestimate how important that is.

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Speaker 6: He needs to be able to work with the industry,

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Speaker 6: he needs to be able to work with lawmakers.

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Speaker 5: I've been at those.

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Speaker 6: Hearings in Congress where it was antagonistic. Questions weren't being answered,

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Speaker 6: eyes were being rolled, and this was the environment in

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Speaker 6: which Crypto was trying to achieve regulatory clarity and it

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Speaker 6: just wasn't going to happen with that back and forth

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Speaker 6: and the tension that was created in the Gensler era.

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Speaker 6: So we are very much looking forward to a person

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Speaker 6: who can come in, hit the ground running, work with

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Speaker 6: the other commissioners, and hopefully also have a dialogue with

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Speaker 6: the CFTC and with lawmakers so in the new Congress

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Speaker 6: we can get some clarity, we can get some forward

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Speaker 6: motion stable coin bill market structure. So, quite simply, this

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Speaker 6: is an excellent choice and he's another great ad to

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Speaker 6: the you can't fault regardless of your politics, you can't

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Speaker 6: fault the economic team that is being put together by

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Speaker 6: the transition team here.

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Speaker 4: Catherine, I want to just speak to the cynics out there.

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Speaker 4: People are now out oh great, crypto's got a pro

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Speaker 4: crypto sec chair, or all hell's going to break loose.

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Speaker 4: We're going to see yet more fraudulent behavior that they

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Speaker 4: believe goes on in space. I want to ask you

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Speaker 4: because specifically, yes, you're in the ecosystem, but you're someone

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Speaker 4: who comes from a federal prosecutor background. You're someone who's

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Speaker 4: worked for US Attorney General offices in California.

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Speaker 3: So speak to that concern.

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Speaker 4: Here that we're suddenly going to see rip roaring in

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Speaker 4: crypto with no holds barred.

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Speaker 5: Great, Absolutely, you're going to have that approach.

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Speaker 6: You're going to have the folks who are going to say, oh, great,

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Speaker 6: there's going to be no regulation. But if you actually

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Speaker 6: look the folks in the industry, we aren't asking for

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Speaker 6: no regulation. We're asking for clarity for regulation. We're not

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Speaker 6: just enforcement actions. And I know we've heard that quite

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Speaker 6: a bit. What does that really mean? If you break

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Speaker 6: it down, the enforcement actions are expensive, they're limited to

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Speaker 6: the case and point. You don't get a broader rule

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Speaker 6: that will help businesses who either haven't engaged with the

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Speaker 6: industry or trying to engage.

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Speaker 5: In the correct way.

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Speaker 6: So having been at the attorney's office before and having

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Speaker 6: worked very closely with the SEC the light doesn't flip overnight.

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Speaker 6: It's not suddenly that all the cases or are going

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Speaker 6: to disappear.

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Speaker 5: Into the ether.

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Speaker 6: It's just that you're going to have a better dialogue,

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Speaker 6: you're going to get collaboration, and you're going to have

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Speaker 6: a more positive approach.

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Speaker 5: To how we get there. It's not we're not getting

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Speaker 5: rid of everything. We're just going to.

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Speaker 6: Get there in a more collaborative fashion, and that's what

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Speaker 6: you need.

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Speaker 4: What's interesting is we are seeing actually some of the

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Speaker 4: crypto related companies just turning to the downside. A little

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Speaker 4: bit a lot of run up into that announcements, so

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Speaker 4: perhaps a bit of profit taking going on, Catherine, But

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Speaker 4: spell out exactly what some of the you talk about,

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Speaker 4: certain laws and regulations that need to be put in place.

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Speaker 4: We hear about stable coins being tackled first and foremost.

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Speaker 4: Is that the number one line on the agenda.

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Speaker 3: From the SEC.

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Speaker 4: Where do you think the first rules are going to come?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: I think stable coin legislation coming from Congress will probably

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Speaker 6: be the first one out, just because it's a smaller,

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Speaker 6: niche er piece and there's been bipartisan support, So I

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Speaker 6: think that's going to be the first, the first mover.

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Speaker 6: The market structure legislation are referred to will take a

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Speaker 6: little longer.

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Speaker 5: But it's a more of a dialogue has to happen.

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Speaker 6: That's the definition, that's who is going to be the

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Speaker 6: regulator depending on where these assets sit from a definitional

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Speaker 6: standpoint along the spectrum. So that'll take a little longer,

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Speaker 6: but we'll have some more forward motion on both of

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Speaker 6: those fronts.

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Speaker 4: Is there any risk here could we see pill Atkins

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Speaker 4: not take the role, not be acknowledged for the role.

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Speaker 6: Well, there's always risk, but as I said, you know,

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Speaker 6: we're hopeful that that goes smoothly. I see no obstacles

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Speaker 6: out there that should block it. However, as I mentioned earlier,

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Speaker 6: there are a list of other folks, all of whom

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Speaker 6: would be great choices. I'm really liking the Pollakin's choice,

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Speaker 6: given his involvement with the industry, his understanding, and quite

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Speaker 6: frankly before, his demeanor and ability to collaborate and work

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Speaker 6: with others, which is quite simply important in having a

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Speaker 6: negotiated position with regard to some of this regulatory action.

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Speaker 4: Catherine Dowling, great to have you join Bidwise Asset Management.

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Speaker 3: We appreciate it.

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Speaker 4: Elsewhere on Capitol Hill, Elon Musk is, in fact there

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Speaker 4: today stoken congressional enthusiasm. He hopes for his pretty ambitious

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Speaker 4: effort to sash at least two.

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Speaker 3: Trillion dollars in the federal budget.

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Speaker 4: Now, Mosk and his partner in the initiative, former Republican

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Speaker 4: presidential candidate Vivit Gramswami, plan to meet with groups of lawmakers,

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Speaker 4: followed by a session that all Republican House members have

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Speaker 4: been invited to. Coming up, we'll discuss the impact the

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Speaker 4: French government TERMOL on the country's businesses. And startup sector

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Speaker 4: that's next. This is the Bloomberg technology. I think we're

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Speaker 4: just going to hear from the National Rally leader Marine

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Speaker 4: la Penn now, who is speaking with Bloomberg earlier today.

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Speaker 3: Just take a listen because you need to l DI

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Speaker 3: Missions Library.

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Speaker 2: What I said was that the president's resignation is a

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Speaker 2: personal decision for him and can only take place in

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Speaker 2: my view, when a political crisis happens or an institutional

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Speaker 2: crisis can no longer have any other solution than the

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Speaker 2: resignation of the President of the Republic. What I do wish,

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Speaker 2: on the other hand, because for sure there will be

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Speaker 2: new legislative elections in the next few months, is that

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Speaker 2: we work on a voting system by then that enables

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Speaker 2: us to have a real majority, whatever that majority may be.

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Speaker 2: But the country needs a majority. It can't live for

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Speaker 2: months and years with three blocks, which in reality can't

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Speaker 2: implement a policy.

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Speaker 4: That was Marine Lapin of the National Rally commenting on Macron.

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Speaker 4: President Macron's position, after, of course, he has been dismissing

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Speaker 4: growing calls for his own resignations from politicians across the

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Speaker 4: political spectrum, Macron came out saying he will serve out

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Speaker 4: his second term in full. He's set to talk further

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Speaker 4: at eight pm Local time, that's two pm here in

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Speaker 4: New York. But let's just discuss the impact of all

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Speaker 4: this political drama on French businesses, on tech companies Bloomberg's benwell,

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Speaker 4: butflo does.

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Speaker 3: That for us? And how a sentiment at the moment.

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Speaker 4: Is there a moment of crisis among executive boards?

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Speaker 7: Yes, I mean it's a moment of uncertainty and as

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Speaker 7: we know, business leaders don't like uncertainty then like to

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Speaker 7: be able to focust their.

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Speaker 3: Budget for next year, etc.

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Speaker 7: Actually, that uncertainty started this summer in June when Macron

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Speaker 7: called the unexpected app election, So that's that's ongoing. Basically, Barnier,

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Speaker 7: the Prime Minister, was preparing a budget for next year

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Speaker 7: that was actually going to slash some helps for innovative

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Speaker 7: startups on R and D, etc. So now there is

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Speaker 7: a certainty of it's going to happen, we have there

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Speaker 7: is a few weeks left for Macon first to pick

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Speaker 7: a new prime minister and then to vote if possible,

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Speaker 7: the budget. So yeah, like startup leaders and companies in

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Speaker 7: general waiting to see what's going to be in that budget.

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Speaker 7: Or if we are going to continue with this year's budget,

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Speaker 7: which could be reconducted through next year through special law Benoir.

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Speaker 4: It's notable that leaders like Eric Schmidt, course former Google

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Speaker 4: CEO and now focused on geopolitics as in particular, has

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Speaker 4: come on this show and said France is the standout

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Speaker 4: in Europe in terms of getting things done, having a

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Speaker 4: really healthy ecosystem where companies like Mistral for ai can thrive.

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Speaker 3: Has that been something being questioned late.

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Speaker 7: It's not been questioned, but you're right, Like Macrome started

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Speaker 7: about seven years ago when it was first elected, a

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Speaker 7: sort of push for what he called startup Nation. He

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Speaker 7: helped companies to hire foreign scientists, for foreign companies to

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Speaker 7: come to France to start their business. He's been doing

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Speaker 7: some helps to get visas for foreign tech workers, for example.

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Speaker 7: And then the push in AI led by open Ai

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Speaker 7: led to new French startups trying to rival with open

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Speaker 7: Ai like Mistroll. As you said, Macron is also going

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Speaker 7: to be organizing a World summit in February or an AI.

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Speaker 7: There certainly is this push that companies hope can continue,

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Speaker 7: and obviously the political situation is not the best. Just

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Speaker 7: to ensure that this momentum, which is quite fragile, can

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Speaker 7: keep going.

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Speaker 4: Benwa, It's great to have you. Bernan Bardelo on the

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Speaker 4: impact in France at the moment. Sticking with international politics,

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Speaker 4: South Korea's main opposition later says it may be difficult

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Speaker 4: to get enough support from the ruling party to impeach

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Speaker 4: President yunsuk yuil this week after his declaration of martial law,

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Speaker 4: but he remains committed to removing the president.

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Speaker 3: Democratic Party leader.

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Speaker 4: Lee Jim young sat down for an interview with Bloomberg

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Speaker 4: earlier today.

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Speaker 3: Here's what he had to say. Chung Chung kungu chor Kumnia.

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Speaker 8: Ultimately, politics is done by the people, and even if

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Speaker 8: the result of the vote may go against the world

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Speaker 8: the people in the current situation, the vote result may

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Speaker 8: change next time if individual members of the parliament are

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Speaker 8: pressured heavily by public opinion. That's what I think important.

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Speaker 4: For companies such as Samsung, Skhiinex. Of course tech more broadly,

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Speaker 4: let's discuss the impact of all this geopolitical uncertainty on

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Speaker 4: tech markets.

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Speaker 3: More broadly.

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Speaker 4: J Jacobs us head of Thematic Active, BTF and black Rock,

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Speaker 4: and thus far J hasn't had much impact that US

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Speaker 4: stocks have continued to show their exceptionalism. We've had record

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Speaker 4: high's yesterday amid global turmoil.

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Speaker 3: What do you make of that?

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Speaker 9: Well, actually, the tech sector in the United States is

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Speaker 9: one of the most geopolitically exposed sectors out there. About

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Speaker 9: sixty percent of the revenue of tech comes from overseas.

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Speaker 9: So one of the ways that we've been looking about

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Speaker 9: geopolitical fragmentation is can you really tilt your exposures within

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Speaker 9: the tech sector to companies that buy in the United States,

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Speaker 9: build in the US, cell in the United States really

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Speaker 9: to try to isolate some of that geopolitical risk. I

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Speaker 9: think it's very present in the tech sector in particular.

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Speaker 3: Where would that end.

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Speaker 4: Up leading you which companies I mean, first and foremost,

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Speaker 4: you might think, well, those that have been benefiting from

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Speaker 4: the Chipsact, who've been building here in the United States,

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Speaker 4: but then inter hasn't exactly been having the best of

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Speaker 4: times of it.

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Speaker 9: Well, it's coming from a range of companies, just kind

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Speaker 9: of across different industries within technology. I mean, I think

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Speaker 9: if we look at artificial intelligence, we see that a

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Speaker 9: lot of leadership is with US based companies. For example,

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Speaker 9: you could look specifically at data centers and power companies

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Speaker 9: as being really important parts of the AI ecosystem but

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Speaker 9: are very localized to the United States. You're getting some

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Speaker 9: of that isolation from geopolitics. We even brought out an

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Speaker 9: entire fund based off of this strategy, I Etc. Which

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Speaker 9: is really looking at the tech sector but tilting towards

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Speaker 9: those US kind of very domestic focused companies to isolate

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Speaker 9: geopolitical risk.

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Speaker 3: That's really interesting.

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Speaker 4: The infrastructure build out is one that many have turned

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Speaker 4: to other than just thinking okay, in Vidia chips and shovels.

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Speaker 4: We then think about the next layer down, the energy,

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Speaker 4: the companies, But how many people are asking you, well,

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Speaker 4: what about application layers?

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Speaker 3: What about the next frontier of AI?

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Speaker 9: That's really where a lot of the conversations are going.

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Speaker 9: I think if we look at the last two years,

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Speaker 9: it's been a huge focus on the Magnificent seven, and

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Speaker 9: it's been a really concentrated rally within artificial intelligence. We

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Speaker 9: think as we enter the third year of what we're

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Speaker 9: really calling the build phase of artificial intelligence, this is

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Speaker 9: when the markets are going to recognize that this is

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Speaker 9: something much bigger that's going to impact a wider range

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Speaker 9: of technology stocks. A wider range of semiconductor stocks, the

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Speaker 9: power stocks. It could even impact cybersecurity stocks as data

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Speaker 9: gets more valuable and needs to be protected. And you

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Speaker 9: can even look at adjacent industries in financial services and

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Speaker 9: healthcare where AI can really create more productivity and efficiency.

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Speaker 9: So I think we're going to see a transition in

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Speaker 9: twenty twenty five to really a broadening of that artificial

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Speaker 9: intelligence story.

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Speaker 4: How much of the story is starting to pick up

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Speaker 4: back in crypto for you as.

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Speaker 9: Well, Jay, Well, it's significant. You know, of course bitcoin

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Speaker 9: passing one hundred thousand is a significant milestone, but really

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Speaker 9: you have to take a step back and look at

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Speaker 9: the broader picture of why is this happening. You know,

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Speaker 9: I think there's certainly some anticipation of more friendly regulatory tellens,

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Speaker 9: but also in your previous segment, you're just highlighting some

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Speaker 9: of the geopolitical risk around the world in Europe and Asia,

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Speaker 9: and in a lot of ways, professional managers which are

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Speaker 9: really just starting to access digital assets for the first

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Speaker 9: time with our launch of ibit our Bitcoin etp are

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Speaker 9: thinking about it as a hedge in their portfolio. Behaves

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Speaker 9: very differently from stocks and bonds, and if you see

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Speaker 9: more geopolitical risk Bitcoin could really benefit.

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Speaker 4: What's interesting about your role is not only thinking about

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Speaker 4: strategy or leadership clients, but you're also thinking about the

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Speaker 4: international ATF offering as well. And I'm just interested about

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Speaker 4: whether anyone is betting on outside of the US.

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Speaker 9: They are, but in more targeted ways where we've seen

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Speaker 9: some really significant flows in the past year. Specifically looking

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Speaker 9: at India is really a play on changing supply chains,

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Speaker 9: particularly if you look at a lot of the reshoring

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Speaker 9: that's happening in the United States. There's been an effort

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Speaker 9: to build more here domestically, but also to diversify supply

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Speaker 9: chains geographically, and India has been a major beneficiary. Just

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Speaker 9: like we have a Chips Act in the United States,

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Speaker 9: they've been focused on building out more chip capacity as

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Speaker 9: well as well as building out more tech manufacturing. So

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Speaker 9: India has been a big beneficiary Mexico as well as

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Speaker 9: you look at nearshoring and the interplay of growing trade

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Speaker 9: relations between the US and Mexico.

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Speaker 4: Fascinating. J Jacobs, thanks so much for that. US Head

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Speaker 4: of Thematic and Active ETF over a black Rock AMD

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Speaker 4: CEO Lisa Sue spent the better part of her ten

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Speaker 4: year career engineering, one of the biggest turnarounds in Silicon

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Speaker 4: Valley history. Now just preparing for a battle against Nvidia,

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Speaker 4: Emily Chang sat down in the CEO at MD's headquarters

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Speaker 4: in Austin, Texas to discuss the bets she's.

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Speaker 3: Making to compete.

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Speaker 4: A long view on the global chip supply chain and

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Speaker 4: even her distant family link within video CEO just one

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Speaker 4: take a listen.

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Speaker 10: In Vidia is seen as the dominant force in AI

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Speaker 10: right now, and AMD is widely considered the next best option.

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Speaker 10: Is that good enough for you?

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Speaker 5: Do you like being seen as the underdog?

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't call it a like or dislike.

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Speaker 11: What I would say is, you know, AMD has had

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Speaker 11: a history of doing amazing things, and from that standpoint,

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Speaker 11: we've always been in this place where we haven't necessarily

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Speaker 11: had same amount of people that you know, other larger

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Speaker 11: companies have, but we've certainly punched well above our weight

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Speaker 11: in terms of technology capability, in terms of impact on

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Speaker 11: the industry.

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Speaker 12: This is the most complex highest performance computer.

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Speaker 13: People are kind of obsessed with the fact that you

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Speaker 13: and Jensen are distant cousins.

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Speaker 10: I know that you are competitors, but do you ever treat.

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Speaker 11: Notes well, first of all, Jensen is brilliant, so I

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Speaker 11: fully admire him for that. We were really distant, so

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Speaker 11: we didn't grow up together.

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Speaker 10: You know.

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Speaker 11: We actually met at an industry event, so it wasn't

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Speaker 11: until we were well into our careers.

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Speaker 10: So no family dinners.

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Speaker 5: Just to put the rumor to rest.

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Speaker 11: No family dinners. And it's an interesting coincidence.

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Speaker 10: So many of your customers are building their own chips

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Speaker 10: hyperscalers like Apple and Meta and Google and Microsoft and Amazon.

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Speaker 14: Is that a threat?

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Speaker 11: This is a huge market, Emily, There's like more than

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Speaker 11: enough chips for everybody to build. And the beauty of

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Speaker 11: this is once recognized trips are so important. Yes, so

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Speaker 11: it's natural that they're going to have their own capability.

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Speaker 10: Has the shakeup of a very established industry. Surprised even you.

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Speaker 5: It has a little bit, I have.

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Speaker 4: To say, Mdco lis to c there alongside Blue Megsmily Chang.

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Speaker 4: Check out the full episode of The Circuit tonight on

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Speaker 4: bloom Meg TV ten pm Eastern or stream on Bloomberg

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Speaker 4: Originals a pm Eastern.

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Speaker 3: Now it's time for talking tech.

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Speaker 4: First up, all chips TSMC is in talks of the

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Speaker 4: Nvidia to produce Blackwell AI chips at TSMC's new plant

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Speaker 4: in Arizona. It'scording to Reuter's now TSMC is said to

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Speaker 4: be making preparations to start production early next year. Plus,

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Speaker 4: Apple's major manufacturing partner, fox Conn, reported a second consecutive

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Speaker 4: month of just single digit sales growth, raising concerns that

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Speaker 4: demand for AI infrastructure won't be able to offset weak

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Speaker 4: iPhone sales. Apples historically accounted abound of fifty percent of

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Speaker 4: hon Hui's overall sales, and the EU's new competition chief

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Speaker 4: says a potential split of Google's businesses is still under consideration.

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Speaker 3: Joyce of Ribeira, who started.

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Speaker 4: Her five year term this week, said she aims to

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Speaker 4: build on the legacy of her predecessor, mar Great Vestia.

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Speaker 4: Welcome back to Blue Meg Technology. I'm Caroline Hide in

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Speaker 4: New Yorker. Quick check on these markets because while we're

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Speaker 4: teetering around record highs, the NASAC is only off by

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Speaker 4: eleven points, and a's that one hundred that is the

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Speaker 4: big benchmark for big tech.

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Speaker 3: We are being put to the upside.

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Speaker 4: By the likes of Tesla, for example, chip stocks. On

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Speaker 4: the downside, though we're looking at bitcoin is the real

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Speaker 4: punchmark that we're all looking at.

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Speaker 3: In the moment. It's now got an ecosystem worth.

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Speaker 4: Two trillion dollars, I mean actually smaller than some of

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Speaker 4: the biggest tech companies, but still we have run up

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Speaker 4: past one hundred thousand dollars, up another three and a

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Speaker 4: half percent today. Move on and have a look at

441
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 4: some of the individual movers within that Nasdaq one hundred

442
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,399
Speaker 4: and some of the benchmarks. Now the biggest points dragged

443
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 4: to the downsize as Synopsis Integral to chip designed chip

444
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 4: manufacturing basically to testing your designs and numbers came in

445
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,199
Speaker 4: a little bit weak. We have seen dragged down for

446
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 4: the Electronic Design Automation Software Company today, first called a

447
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 4: forecasts weekend, then expected Intel off by three point four percent.

448
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,679
Speaker 4: Maybe some of that moon music around chips pulling it lower.

449
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 4: There has been some interesting news in terms of its

450
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 4: board trying to shore it up, and the Microchip CEO

451
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 4: comes on. So does a former ASML chief executive too,

452
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 4: so two key experienced operators coming onto the Intel board

453
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 4: as they seek a new CEO.

454
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:25,840
Speaker 3: Micro strategy actually just turning.

455
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 4: To the downside of by one point seven percent, having

456
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 4: been rising earlier. But we are going to dig deep

457
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,959
Speaker 4: on all things micro Strategy after what has been a

458
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 4: phenomenal run up in the stock. Why because it's basically

459
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 4: a bitcoin proxy. We can talk about that. We've both

460
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 4: us and Chen and Jen. I mean, MicroStrategy has been

461
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 4: beloved of the retail community, but actually some institutional players

462
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 4: have been getting in on Michael Saylor's bitcoin base.

463
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

464
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 15: So I just published our story today about how micro

465
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 15: strategy has become the hottest trip right now with war Street.

466
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 15: If you look hash file, managers stare buy in the

467
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 15: convertible bonds. That the other instrument because micro Strategy has

468
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 15: this plan about keep raising capitol right to fund is

469
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 15: bitcoined buying, and so they have already raised six billion

470
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,040
Speaker 15: convertible bonds and for hatch funds, this is a perfect

471
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 15: instrument for them to play in market neutral arbitcharge bat

472
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,880
Speaker 15: and this is a complex bet, but the essential part

473
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 15: of it is to bet on the volatility. So they're

474
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 15: writing on the volatility of the underlying of micro strategy.

475
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:31,200
Speaker 3: As we see today, there's.

476
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 15: A big jump right like at the open MicroStrategy was

477
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 15: up like almost nine percent when bitcoin hits new record.

478
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 15: So MicroStrategy move on that lots of price points, and

479
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,200
Speaker 15: they just make the convertible arbitcharge trade much more appealing

480
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 15: to this headphone group.

481
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 4: We were talking about how the retail frenzy has been

482
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 4: there and actually a lot of people playing leverage bets

483
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 4: on MicroStrategy getting into two x three x the ETF exposure.

484
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 4: She grew quite a difficulty from a liquidity perspective in

485
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 4: the market.

486
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 3: Is there any talk about what.

487
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 4: Is it this volatility or playing this volatility when you're

488
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 4: looking at institutional and retail.

489
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 15: Sure, yeah, I would say micro strategy is just no

490
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 15: short of volatility, right because it's a bitcoin proxy, so

491
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 15: you know the volatility rise on the bitcoin pricing, but

492
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 15: also the premium it's bitcoin holding because it's now training

493
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 15: on two hundred percent wars and it's the it's like

494
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 15: the value of bitcoin it holds, and you know those

495
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,920
Speaker 15: things could also move around. And then you have the

496
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:39,360
Speaker 15: retail that's buying the ETF leveraging ETF two times right

497
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 15: along two times shots. That's that, and then the institution

498
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 15: and I think in a way that the company, even

499
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 15: it's alf told that it's more volatizing any sm P

500
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 15: five hundred stock. So that's where you know the money

501
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 15: flow coming from, and people are just riding on the

502
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 15: volatility and a retail frenzy.

503
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 4: According to Breenberg, fourteen percent about standing shares are currently shorted.

504
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:05,480
Speaker 4: But thus why that has been a painful trade. Thank

505
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,640
Speaker 4: you so much, All things MicroStrategy. With the Jinschen, they're

506
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 4: another story. We're tracking Chinese hackers compromised eight American telecom

507
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 4: companies as part of a wide ranging espionage effort to

508
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 4: gather intelligence on prominent US citizens. That's according to Biden

509
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 4: administration officials. Here for the details, Bloomberg's Kelsey Griffiths and

510
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 4: kind of absolutely shocking, lady that eight have been compromised

511
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 4: and we can't seem to get them out.

512
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 16: That's exactly right, Caroline. What we do know, and the

513
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 16: details are pretty scarce on the ground right now, is

514
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 16: that multiple US telecoms have been breached in this seemingly

515
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 16: very wide and broad campaign to burrow into our telecommunication

516
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 16: networks and glean really important and valuable details about public

517
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 16: officials and about life.

518
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 3: In the US.

519
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 4: We also know there's worries about both incoming president and

520
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 4: vice president in terms of being compromised on their communications.

521
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,160
Speaker 4: Just talk to us about what the CEOs have been saying.

522
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 4: We understand that Ateen TCEO has been speaking with other

523
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 4: law makers who has.

524
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 3: Come out and sort of talked about this publicly.

525
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 16: Though that's right, there haven't been a lot of companies

526
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 16: that have so far come out publicly and talked about this.

527
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 16: T Mobile last week became the first carrier to publicly

528
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 16: share details about what they had seen on their networks

529
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 16: and sort of some of the markers of that threat,

530
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 16: and they spoke with me about that exclusively. They also

531
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 16: put out a blog post last week that details some

532
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 16: of those threats. So I think that you know, what

533
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 16: we're seeing as a really sophisticated attempt and T Mobile

534
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 16: caught it early, but some of the other carriers, it seems,

535
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 16: weren't so lucky.

536
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 4: Kelsey fascinating reporting and I think Senator Marco Rubio, who's eventually,

537
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,479
Speaker 4: of course meant to be sexual mistate talking about how

538
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 4: this is a as it gets Kelsey Griffiths on all

539
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,720
Speaker 4: things hacking coming up, does.

540
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 3: The unicorn status need to be reevaluated?

541
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 4: And we're discussing that with Rebecca Line of co founder

542
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,159
Speaker 4: and general partners of Canvas Ventures.

543
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 3: That's next This is Bloomberg Technology.

544
00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 4: In the last year, more than fourteen hundred startups were

545
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 4: valued at more than one billion dollars, but actually only

546
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,159
Speaker 4: fifteen percent claim profitability. That's how our next guess is

547
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 4: measuring well the fact that these numbers don't seem to

548
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 4: be a measure of real success anymore, unicon status, how

549
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 4: do we reevaluated? And one of the new markers for

550
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 4: that success, Rebecca Linn' pleas to say, co founder and

551
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 4: general partner of Canvas Ventures, we steal all your great statistics, Rebecca,

552
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 4: but their statistics are shocking, and I'm interested as to

553
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 4: what you think the new benchmark is and how many

554
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 4: of those fourteen hundred actually still vindicate a one billion

555
00:28:58,600 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 4: dollar valuation.

556
00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 14: Yeah. I think the number I've heard is it would

557
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 14: take about twenty years for all of those unicorns to

558
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 14: actually make it to the public market, and only fifteen

559
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 14: percent are profitable. And on top of that, a lot

560
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 14: of them have been around, you know, for over twelve years,

561
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 14: so just way too long to really hit their stride

562
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 14: and hit profitability. I think with Jeni now, a lot

563
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 14: of the metrics we'd seen in the past aren't really

564
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 14: the metrics, you know, we're looking forward in the future

565
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 14: for success, you know, Unicorn status. I think people have

566
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 14: said that we need a new beast. I think that's

567
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 14: absolutely true, and they're you know, getting to that billion

568
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 14: dollar valuation is not realy not meaningful anymore. And then

569
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 14: on top of that, what we're seeing with GENAAI is

570
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 14: an incredible opportunity to generate revenue quickly. We're seeing this

571
00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 14: in the statistics about how quickly companies can get to

572
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 14: a million dollars of revenue. It used to take companies

573
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 14: quite a lot longer. Right now with Jeni, the median

574
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 14: is like a less in months, right and we actually

575
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 14: saw a company the other day that got to a

576
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 14: million dollars of ARR in two weeks.

577
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 3: But it's insoluable, Like is that something it's not? None, No,

578
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 3: I don't think so.

579
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 14: I think what's happened. I don't think it's sustainable. And

580
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 14: so what we really are looking for are companies that

581
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 14: have sort of a unique insight and very deep industry

582
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 14: knowledge in the area that they're going into. We think

583
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,160
Speaker 14: that's more important than it ever was before. And I

584
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 14: think this, you know, ar the ar ramp we're seeing

585
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,479
Speaker 14: which so many vcs cold were hanging their hats on

586
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 14: for so long. Is really ephemeral. And so you know

587
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 14: what's happening is, you know, these big enterprise companies and

588
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 14: consumers too are signing up and they're paying money to really,

589
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 14: you know, really pilot you know the technology. And at

590
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 14: the same time we're seeing massive you know enterprise companies

591
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 14: like Salesforce, you know, highre fourteen hundred new salespeople to

592
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 14: capture that opportunity.

593
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 3: How many SOI agents Rebecca on not know Salesforce?

594
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 4: How many Asian AI companies are you being hit within

595
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 4: the moment?

596
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 14: Oh my gosh, dozens a day, dozens a day. And

597
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 14: I think those are features. Those are features of you know,

598
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 14: large enterprise companies in the future.

599
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 4: The feature is, so what is the reality? What companies

600
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,440
Speaker 4: do you want to see being built? What problems are

601
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,920
Speaker 4: you wanting to see being sold? That is unique right now?

602
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 14: I love that question, Thank you. Yeah, it's so exciting

603
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 14: right now to be an venture. There are so many

604
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 14: thesis out there that we have wanted to invest in

605
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 14: for a very long time, and there are companies that

606
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 14: tried to do it, but the technology just wasn't there yet.

607
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 14: I mean a prime example you know was of a

608
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 14: company that was impacted by Jenai was case Texts. Case

609
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 14: text was doing really well, they had ten thousand customers,

610
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 14: but they couldn't fulfill the last part of their promise,

611
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 14: which was really to truly stand in the shoes of

612
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 14: a legal counsel. And when Jenai came along, they could

613
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 14: do that and that was a huge unlock and why

614
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 14: they were purchased very quickly by Thompson Reuters. Another one

615
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 14: that we've wanted to see for a very long time

616
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 14: is voice and I think that is the most exciting

617
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 14: thing about Jenai right now. And so when we were

618
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 14: in doc Simity for many years, I just thought, you know,

619
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 14: we should be taking the entire patient call volume, both

620
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 14: inbound and outbound, off the shoulders of the physician's office.

621
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,000
Speaker 14: That should just happen. And the tech just wasn't there yet.

622
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 14: You know, we've been looking for this tech ever since,

623
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 14: you know, we led Siri many moons ago, right and

624
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 14: with Jennai, it suddenly is there. So we invested in

625
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 14: and a company pretty recently called Parakeet, with a founder

626
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 14: with super deep technical knowledge on the medical space, and

627
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,840
Speaker 14: they're doing just that. They're taking the call volume the

628
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 14: inbound and outbound call volume off the shoulders of a

629
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 14: doctor's practice, and that to me is really really exciting.

630
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 4: We listen to you because of the amount of times

631
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 4: you're on to my dismissed the amount of times are

632
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 4: called one of the top of vcs, but also because

633
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,360
Speaker 4: of the exits that you have seen a new call

634
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 4: out case text versus M and A. We're also seen

635
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 4: as you just mentioned, well Numena for example, which which

636
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 4: actually managed to do the public kind of route. How

637
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,000
Speaker 4: are you anticipating some of your portfolio going public come

638
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 4: tent in twenty five.

639
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 14: Yeah, I mean I think there the window is starting

640
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 14: to open. There are so many companies that are that

641
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 14: are ready. I think the market's ready. I think with

642
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:31,240
Speaker 14: the new administration, people are ready for the unlock. And

643
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 14: I do think I we'll see the public markets start

644
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 14: to open up. Maybe I'm too optimistic, I don't know,

645
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 14: but I do think that that's a very viable option

646
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 14: for people going forward. The other thing is I think

647
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 14: M and A. I mean, I actually prefer M and

648
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 14: A every single time because it's a much it's just

649
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,959
Speaker 14: a much you know, more linear exit for founders often

650
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 14: and so I think founders should always keep both options

651
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,400
Speaker 14: in mind. My most successful companies have had it very

652
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 14: exciting IPO path, but have also dual tracked with an

653
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 14: M and A path at the same time.

654
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 4: Rebecca Lynn, we thank you for pushing head to next

655
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 4: c co founder, general partner of Canvas Ventures.

656
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 3: We hope to see you in that new year.

657
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, let's talk about a company that's part of one

658
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 4: of the most valuable startups out there, Bike Dances.

659
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 3: TikTok.

660
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 4: It's tripled its US shopping sales to over one hundred

661
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,160
Speaker 4: million dollars. The social media platform says it's app drew

662
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,520
Speaker 4: in one hundred and sixty five percent annual increase in

663
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 4: shoppers for the two days between Black Friday and Cyber Monday.

664
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 4: This comes as the app faces, of course, potential shutdown

665
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,919
Speaker 4: in January, as regulators fear its parent company, Bike Dance,

666
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 4: poses a national security threat. Let's dig into that TikTok

667
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 4: on TikTok and Dexandra Levigne is with us.

668
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 3: It could come tomorrow.

669
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 4: I mean, we've been here all week thinking that we'll

670
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,960
Speaker 4: get a ruling on whether or not the case can continue.

671
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 3: That US would ban TikTok come January nineteen.

672
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 13: Yeah, it is finally here. We are expecting a decision

673
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 13: probably out of Washington tomorrow morning. And it's a really

674
00:34:58,719 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 13: consequential moment.

675
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 3: It feels like it's been.

676
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,280
Speaker 13: A very long time, but this is actually a hugely

677
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 13: consequential moment, probably the biggest deal for TikTok since Biden

678
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 13: actually signed the divestor band law back in April.

679
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 3: And part of the.

680
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 13: Reason this is such a huge deal is because if

681
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:16,239
Speaker 13: this comes to pass, this will be the first time

682
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 13: that a foreign owned social media app has ever been

683
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,160
Speaker 13: banned in this country. And so and by the way,

684
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 13: it's not just a social media app. It is a

685
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 13: social media app used by half of the American population.

686
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 13: And there are more people on TikTok in America than

687
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 13: voted in our last selection.

688
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,720
Speaker 4: The future administration. The head of it is on TikTok.

689
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,240
Speaker 3: Many of us are on TikTok.

690
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 4: And I feel like the anxiety around whether it is

691
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:40,800
Speaker 4: going to be banned has just dampened away as time's

692
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,320
Speaker 4: gone on. But I mean, are we feeling that the

693
00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:46,399
Speaker 4: US Court is going to let this continue or could

694
00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 4: they take it off the table?

695
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 13: You know, no one knows for certain. I think reading

696
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 13: the tea leaves. It seems likely that the court is

697
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,320
Speaker 13: going to uphold this law that would potentially see TikTok

698
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 13: shut down next month. But that doesn't mean that that's

699
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,160
Speaker 13: sort of the end of the line for TikTok. I

700
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 13: think that it's probably not going to disappear off of

701
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 13: our phones in January. In all likelihood, if TikTok loses tomorrow,

702
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 13: they are probably going to somehow appeal the decision, either

703
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,399
Speaker 13: asking the DC Circuit to take it up and hear

704
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 13: it again, or potentially taking it to the Supreme Court.

705
00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 4: How has TikTok been just countering this little being behind

706
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 4: the scenes, because we haven't heard much publicly.

707
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 13: Well, I think a huge, a huge piece of this

708
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:26,280
Speaker 13: is actually American investors, and it's also a hugely overlooked piece.

709
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 13: I think that you know, American investors have so much

710
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 13: money tied up with ByteDance, which is TikTok's par and company.

711
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 13: They have collectively billions, and so it's not just a

712
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 13: decision tomorrow that will affect millions of people. It's also

713
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 13: a decision that will affect billions of dollars. And I

714
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 13: think one really big question I've had about What's been

715
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 13: going on behind the scenes is how will Trump's tie

716
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 13: to some of these investors. We know that there's at

717
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 13: least one big Republican mega donor, Jeffyass who Trump is

718
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 13: you know, has a good relationship with big question is

719
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 13: how are these American investors behind the scene is potentially

720
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 13: going to affect the outcome for the app's future here.

721
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 4: Soakoya, General Atlantic, Susquehanna International, you name a lot of them.

722
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 4: In a great piece today, Go and check out the

723
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 4: Tech Daily with Alexandra Lumine and stay tuned for that decision.

724
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 4: Open AI it's partnering with Defense Tech Company andrel on

725
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 4: anti drone Systems. Infari has inside track and this is

726
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 4: more of a push was seeing from open Ai to

727
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 4: be something that serves US defense, the government particularly.

728
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 3: That's right.

729
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 12: So the company has said that they want to prioritize

730
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 12: supporting the US government and its democratic allies in adopting AI,

731
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 12: and a big part of that is increasing their defense partnerships.

732
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 12: So they have also done a partnership with the US

733
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 12: Air Force Research Lab, They are working with Los Alamos,

734
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 12: and they've hired a former top Pentagon official to head

735
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 12: up their policy in that area, and also added the

736
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 12: former head of the NSA to their board recently, so

737
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 12: we're seeing a lot of movement in that direction.

738
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 4: How do employees feel about it, because it can sometimes

739
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:12,320
Speaker 4: do controversial this kind of work.

740
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 12: Yeah, absolutely, you know, historically in the past, for example,

741
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:21,680
Speaker 12: in twenty eighteen, when Google was starting to partner with

742
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 12: the Pentagon in what was called Project Maven, it was

743
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 12: hugely controversial. Employees protested the partnership ended up not working

744
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 12: out at that time. However, now we're seeing I would say,

745
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,240
Speaker 12: less resistance from employees generally. Of course that could change,

746
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 12: but so far we haven't seen much pushback.

747
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 3: And it's not just open Ai opening eyes.

748
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 12: Competitor Anthropic recently did a big partnership with Palanteer and Amazon,

749
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 12: and Meta has also been doing some work in this area.

750
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,319
Speaker 12: So I think this is a trend we're continuing to.

751
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,239
Speaker 4: Secrow and very briefly, Like Sam Altman was at the

752
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 4: Deal Book event yesterday talking about his optimism that you know,

753
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 4: Musk is in agoby to vindictive when close to Donald Trump.

754
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 4: Do you think that this could be in any way

755
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:05,880
Speaker 4: an issue.

756
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 3: I think it's really too soon to say.

757
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 12: What is going to happen in terms of AI policy

758
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 12: and exactly how or if Elon will be involved. We know,

759
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 12: of course he's leading dog, but so far there's still

760
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 12: a lot that's being decided about who and how AI.

761
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 3: Policy is going to shake out. So I would say

762
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 3: it's too soon to say, sharenk if I brilliant to

763
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 3: have you, thank you.

764
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 4: Meanwhile, President link Trump, as we're just talking about, has

765
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 4: now nominated fintech billionaire and SpaceX astronaut Joed Eisigman to lead.

766
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 3: NASA for more but most Lauren Grush joins us.

767
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,479
Speaker 4: And look, he has been busy going up and doing

768
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 4: space walks with SpaceX and now he's going to be

769
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 4: leaving his CEO role.

770
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 17: Yes, absolutely.

771
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 18: I mean, if there's one thing that most people can

772
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 18: say about Jared is he's very passionate about space. He

773
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 18: really kind of bursts onto the scene in twenty twenty

774
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,280
Speaker 18: one when he announced that he had booked the first

775
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 18: all civilian astronaut crew trip to space on SpaceX, and

776
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 18: ever since then he's only become more of more of.

777
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 17: A central figure at SpaceX.

778
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 18: So it's certainly a very interesting pick, and I think

779
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 18: it's going to open up a lot of questions about,

780
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,920
Speaker 18: you know, his relationship with SpaceX. I mean, you have

781
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 18: to understand NASA. NASA and SpaceX are very big partners,

782
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,879
Speaker 18: and SpaceX is maybe the biggest contractor that NASA has

783
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 18: right now. So it's definitely a very unique pick for

784
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 18: the agency that I don't think we've seen really before.

785
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we're pricing Bill Nelson.

786
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 4: How are there ways in which they have protections in

787
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 4: place to not have these blurred lines as to someone

788
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 4: who ultimately doesn't work for SpaceX but has plowed an

789
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 4: awful lot of his personal fortune into riots using SpaceX.

790
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:53,760
Speaker 3: And I'm sure has a personal relationship across the board.

791
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 18: Absolutely, I do believe there are some areas where he

792
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 18: might have to reaccuse himself. For instance, he has an

793
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 18: investment in SpaceX where he holds shares, It's possible he

794
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 18: might have to divest those If there are major decisions

795
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,399
Speaker 18: that are being made about future contracting, you know, it's

796
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,680
Speaker 18: possible he might have to recuse himself from making those decisions.

797
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 17: A lot of the times NASA administrators don't get into

798
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 17: those nitty gritty details. But again it's it's a lot

799
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 17: of open questions.

800
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 18: I think a lot of people will be asking because

801
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 18: anytime NASA makes a decision on a major NASA contract,

802
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:30,839
Speaker 18: you know, those can get quite contentious.

803
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 17: We saw that when they put out bids for their

804
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 17: human landing system.

805
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 18: SpaceX won that, but Blue Origin ended up suing NASA

806
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 18: and the federal government over that decision.

807
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,560
Speaker 17: So those things, those decisions can get quite contentious.

808
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 18: And I think his selection will only add fuel to

809
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 18: those fires.

810
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,759
Speaker 4: And there's pictures of Jaredisman doing that spacewalk quite a

811
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:55,600
Speaker 4: few months ago. Interesting that stallin Coles is a customer,

812
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 4: all shift, full payments, so plenty of inte linking going on.

813
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 4: We thank you bringing us the latest Bloomberg's Law and

814
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 4: grush on the latest from Trump administration picks. That does

815
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 4: it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology. You don't want

816
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:11,240
Speaker 4: to forget to check out the podcast.

817
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:12,040
Speaker 3: You'll find it.

818
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 4: On the terminal as well as on Apple, on Spotify,

819
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:18,800
Speaker 4: and on iHeart. From New York with stocks near record highs,

820
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 4: this is a Bloomberg Technology