Speaker 1: You are now listening to Waiting on Reparations production of
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. Yeah, yeah, you're listening to Waiting on Reparations. Indeed,
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, I'm not even going to mess around
Speaker 1: or make you wait too long, because we don't want
Speaker 1: to wait. Today's episode is kind of special for us,
Speaker 1: you know, like it's only so often we're always trying
Speaker 1: to book interesting guests on this show, and every now
Speaker 1: and then we get the opportunity to book somebody who
Speaker 1: were both very enamored with. And even though you read
Speaker 1: the description and you've seen who it is, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: let Mariah handle the introduction because she has it all
Speaker 1: written out, is perfect, so we're just gonna get into it.
Speaker 1: So without further ado. Oh jeez, how do I you
Speaker 1: get do? How do I really have the honor of
Speaker 1: introducing our guest today? Well? I guess today. Sam's a
Speaker 1: k A DR And I'm the Kasongo and After. A
Speaker 1: futurist rap artist and producer from Ethnica, New York. She
Speaker 1: holds a PhD in Science and Technology Studies from Cornell
Speaker 1: It is currently a professor in the music department at
Speaker 1: Brown University. There's a law more that could be said
Speaker 1: about cap Law. You are Dr Samis, but let's let
Speaker 1: that unfold in the conversation. So first off, I love
Speaker 1: to love to ask people. This is my favorite thing
Speaker 1: to ask people these days. Everybody else, Oh how are you?
Speaker 1: And you're like, well, good, But what has been the
Speaker 1: highlight of your day so far? Today? Oh? The highlight
Speaker 1: of my day. I made some amazing eggs for breakfast. Yea,
Speaker 1: the most important meal of the day. Oh yeah, what's
Speaker 1: your what's your secret to amazing eggs? Well, I'm a
Speaker 1: terrible chef, so um. I recently have been putting butter
Speaker 1: into my eggs and them just have this more savory
Speaker 1: um kind of texture, like good mouth feel. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I felt really excited because I'm just such a terrible up.
Speaker 1: So what I'm able to make something that it's somewhat tasty.
Speaker 1: It's like it's an accomplished goost your self esteem so
Speaker 1: much like, yeah I did that. I like body and
Speaker 1: like cooking for yourself like a form of self care.
Speaker 1: It sure is, but it's hard to like it is
Speaker 1: you know, real for real people who who understand the practice.
Speaker 1: It's like there's so much commitment. You gotta just prep
Speaker 1: like just figuring out all the formulas. As chemistry, it's
Speaker 1: a lot having the right like spices and like implements.
Speaker 1: You tend to the tools, all right, tools like I
Speaker 1: don't even have like a meat mentor like what are
Speaker 1: you telling me? Too much eggs? To make some good eggs? Man,
Speaker 1: that will start your day, right, Um well, let's get
Speaker 1: on to them to find out a little bit about
Speaker 1: what you've been up to. Because last time I saw you,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it was in d C at Songbird
Speaker 1: Cafe and the day, Yeah, for this day, your encouragement,
Speaker 1: like we talked of the crowd and you're really encouraging
Speaker 1: to me about my PhD it stuff, And I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, to this day I remember that, but
Speaker 1: I was too out the nineteen and a lot has
Speaker 1: happened since then. So what has transpired in your last
Speaker 1: two and a half years as an academic and a
Speaker 1: cultural worker? Yeah? So, um so, basically in two thousand nineteen,
Speaker 1: I was just wrapping up my my dissertation. Um so,
Speaker 1: let me actually rewind to the top of the year.
Speaker 1: So I was like looking at my my dissertation kind
Speaker 1: of being finished, and like what was next? And I
Speaker 1: was feeling like, Okay, I'm gonna be a full time
Speaker 1: working musician. I had zero plans to continue into the academy.
Speaker 1: I was like, peace, I'm done with that. Um. And
Speaker 1: then a mentor of mine, UM Dr Jennifer Stover, who's
Speaker 1: written this amazing book called The Sonic Color Line, she
Speaker 1: reached out to me and was like, hey, have you
Speaker 1: seen this post doc at Brown for someone who teaches
Speaker 1: in like Afro disport music making, And I feel like
Speaker 1: this might kind of be up your alley. UM. So
Speaker 1: I was like sure, I tied to it, and then
Speaker 1: actually got it and was like whoa, that was unexpected.
Speaker 1: But then it was also this kind of o ship
Speaker 1: moment because I had to have my PhD by the
Speaker 1: start date, and the start date was in July, and
Speaker 1: I did not yet have a PhD. So it was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I have to make this happen in the next four
Speaker 1: to five months. So um that that semester was like
Speaker 1: the worst inmester of my life. I was writing like
Speaker 1: I had a gun into my head. It was so stressful,
Speaker 1: and I had I worked with a dissertation writing coach
Speaker 1: who would just like she would just push me like
Speaker 1: you gotta keep writing today. So it was really really difficult,
Speaker 1: but I finished it in time and I was able
Speaker 1: to graduate and UM and then ended up moving to
Speaker 1: Providence in twenty to start composition UM for the fall semester.
Speaker 1: So it was I mean, it was a trip like
Speaker 1: we could talk about. But yeah, that that sounds Yeah
Speaker 1: that just give me very deeply because um, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm both time, my discinsion done in three weeks, and
Speaker 1: my mental health is just not right. Not only that,
Speaker 1: it's like impacting how I'm treating other people. That's the
Speaker 1: thing that's like not cool. I'm like I can saw her,
Speaker 1: it's fine, but like I'm like yelling at people everything.
Speaker 1: It affects everything. When you're under that that that kind
Speaker 1: of timeline and stress and constraint, and when you're deep
Speaker 1: in the project like that, it's it's so difficult to
Speaker 1: just be in like a clear mental health space. So
Speaker 1: I I completely completely understand that space and I can't
Speaker 1: wait for you to be free of it. Certainly, was
Speaker 1: all that stuff that went down, was that pre or
Speaker 1: post pandemic that was free? That was pandemic? Yeah, yeah, um,
Speaker 1: And it's funny because I was I was on tour
Speaker 1: at the beginning of twenty nineteen, and I remember I
Speaker 1: was like in back of the van, like trying, just
Speaker 1: desperately trying to write, like you know, everyone's had having
Speaker 1: a key key living their best life, and I was
Speaker 1: there as hell because it was like I don't get
Speaker 1: to critake and anything. I just have this this theme,
Speaker 1: this demon looming over my my my head. Um. So yeah.
Speaker 1: Then I moved to Providence from Philly. I was in
Speaker 1: Philly for four years um, and then came up to
Speaker 1: Providence and that's been it's been a trip being here
Speaker 1: and getting situated. It's a different experience. And then halfway
Speaker 1: through my first year was when the pandemic unfolded. So
Speaker 1: then I moved back to Philly and was there for
Speaker 1: two for the remainder of the year and into the
Speaker 1: next year. And now I'm back in Providence after having
Speaker 1: like taught online basically for the more set and stable
Speaker 1: now in terms of like yeah, yeah, like and during
Speaker 1: I should mention that during that two year period, I
Speaker 1: was just at Brown as a post doc, so I thought, okay,
Speaker 1: I got to figure out my next steps. And then
Speaker 1: I was extended and offered to be an assistant professor.
Speaker 1: So it was like, Okay, I have a little bit
Speaker 1: more um like time, the timeline is different now because
Speaker 1: I was thinking during the pandemic, I'm also gonna have
Speaker 1: to figure out what the next step is. So it
Speaker 1: was a little bit of stability after a few years,
Speaker 1: but just not not really knowing. So, how has like
Speaker 1: academia f at all. I mean, you're already you know
Speaker 1: in I guess at Cornell for eight years things, so
Speaker 1: so like, particularly with the pandemic and now you're taking
Speaker 1: on a new prefectorial role, how has that influenced, like
Speaker 1: your ability to make art um? As it informed in
Speaker 1: any way? Lord? Well, so the first thing is it informed?
Speaker 1: It be in the sense that I haven't really been
Speaker 1: able to make that much art um because I was
Speaker 1: so I realized this um like into maybe March or
Speaker 1: April of twenty when lockdown was sort of like when
Speaker 1: we were in lockdown, but I was so burnt out.
Speaker 1: I was so completely fried and just had not really
Speaker 1: processed it and had kind of accepted that as like
Speaker 1: the normal pace of things that like, yeah, you should
Speaker 1: be trying to do five million things and tour and
Speaker 1: right and be in conversation and do this and the third.
Speaker 1: So when we had to slow down, UM, I cracked hard.
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't want to do anything. I
Speaker 1: don't want to use my brain to do anything. My
Speaker 1: brain is at least yeah. So really, for for the
Speaker 1: past to two wish years, I've been more focused on
Speaker 1: UM two projects. One of them is UM. It's a
Speaker 1: video game project with some friends who started a studio
Speaker 1: UM called glow Up Games, and we're working on this
Speaker 1: project and they've wanted someone to come in who has
Speaker 1: kind of a rap background to engineer this like rap mechanic.
Speaker 1: So I it's like it was a very specific skill
Speaker 1: set that I was able to sal for this this
Speaker 1: game project. So I've been working on some rhymes to
Speaker 1: kind of figure out this like rhyme mechanic in the game.
Speaker 1: And then the other project is working with a friend
Speaker 1: of mine. She's an incredible MC named a Ku and
Speaker 1: Naru UM and she is She's developed this idea to
Speaker 1: to to create a digital archive UM that traces the
Speaker 1: contributions of women and girls in hip hop over the
Speaker 1: past fifty years. So UM like contributing in that way
Speaker 1: has been really like gratifying, but as far as making
Speaker 1: my own stuff, I haven't. I haven't even had the
Speaker 1: I feel like the focus to just sit and write.
Speaker 1: And I think it's it's um it's like a scary
Speaker 1: space for me right now because I think revisit it
Speaker 1: in the page is like I think sitting with the
Speaker 1: um you know, the trauma of the past few years,
Speaker 1: just you know, like I had these upcoming shows and
Speaker 1: I'm realizing, Man, I haven't performed live in two and
Speaker 1: a half years, Like what is that going to feel? Like? Like,
Speaker 1: am I you know, have I lost it? Do I
Speaker 1: still have like all these questions that sort of emerge
Speaker 1: around creation that I've been trying to avoid for the
Speaker 1: past two years that now I have to get back into.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's so interesting the way that paused and
Speaker 1: impacted folks differently, Like it didn't slow things down for everyone,
Speaker 1: but some found a lot of creative energy and that
Speaker 1: slow down other people and it was a moment for
Speaker 1: them to actually assess like there where they were at
Speaker 1: and like actually, no, this is not cool, you know.
Speaker 1: And yeah, the various ways that like that like slow
Speaker 1: down really allowed people to things to emerge, things to
Speaker 1: emerge that everyone had been ignoring or not really. You know,
Speaker 1: I had like I had like two two sides of
Speaker 1: that when the pandemic hit. Like the first half of
Speaker 1: Lockdown was like, oh man, nothing matters. What is art?
Speaker 1: There's there's no purpose or point in any of those.
Speaker 1: And then the second half was like, oh wait, things
Speaker 1: are gonna be fine. Okay, what's Yeah, the starter started
Speaker 1: writing like all over the points. Yeah, that's real, and
Speaker 1: I like it impacted me in waves. So I think
Speaker 1: when Lockdown first started, you know, I was just kind
Speaker 1: of perplexed, like Okay, well, what's what's going to happen
Speaker 1: with this universe? And had kind of these existential crises
Speaker 1: of like like you said, what is what is a wrap?
Speaker 1: What is what is creativity? But then I remember, I
Speaker 1: don't even remember what happened, but there was one day
Speaker 1: where I suddenly felt this deep pain and I missed
Speaker 1: the performance space. And it was like very specific things
Speaker 1: like I missed writing my set list, like scribbling it
Speaker 1: down at the beginning of the set, or I missed
Speaker 1: like the sticky floors of dive bar. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: like all of these kind of textual things that maybe
Speaker 1: you don't immediately identify as like the most important part
Speaker 1: of being an artist. But they add you know, they
Speaker 1: add joy to your your experience. So I felt a
Speaker 1: really acute pain in that particular moment, and so I
Speaker 1: feel like it's it's ebbed and flowed. Um. But now
Speaker 1: I feel much more purpose driven than I was at
Speaker 1: the at the top of the thing. At the top,
Speaker 1: it was like me and Mariah both recently started doing
Speaker 1: shows again and stuff too. So you you will, you will,
Speaker 1: you will enjoy it. It's it's like a vike. I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure my first show I played, though, I like
Speaker 1: just forgot a lot of the lyrics because you're so
Speaker 1: love the memory and you played so much you don't
Speaker 1: worry about I got up there and I was like,
Speaker 1: what is this song? Yeah, that's what I'm not trying
Speaker 1: to say that to scare you know, but like, you know,
Speaker 1: I was way too high the first one that I
Speaker 1: did back, like, I ran like my voice was shot.
Speaker 1: After like the first verse of the first song, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, crap, I gotta go through thirty more minutes.
Speaker 1: This is not gonna work practically, case on a physiological level,
Speaker 1: like I actually I just went to a jazz uh
Speaker 1: kind of show yesterday, and you know, the music was incredible,
Speaker 1: but I was so focused on the performers because it
Speaker 1: was like physically like they are just at the top
Speaker 1: of their game to be able to do what they
Speaker 1: were doing for thirty minutes straight, and it was stressing
Speaker 1: me because I was like, dang, I haven't been really
Speaker 1: will I be able to be in that kind of shape?
Speaker 1: Like my voice, my my memory like all that stuff.
Speaker 1: How's it going to function in the when it's game time.
Speaker 1: But it's good to know that you all have have
Speaker 1: gotten back on the stage, like thank god. And it's
Speaker 1: a little creeky and first of the cree you buy
Speaker 1: such getting back on you know, I mean the ross
Speaker 1: a little bit of gears, but it goes like it's crazy.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I like it was coming
Speaker 1: to grips with during the pandemic and stuff, was how
Speaker 1: much of being like an m C or artists whatever
Speaker 1: you want to call it, Like, how much of that
Speaker 1: was part of like my identity since I've been since
Speaker 1: I was eighteen, you know, so like things like you
Speaker 1: were just describing like the stickiness of a dive, but
Speaker 1: like to me, that's like literally like yeah, that's life.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. It's it's it's it's it's
Speaker 1: suthing I identified with so much that I don't know,
Speaker 1: like to finally get back on stage and to finally
Speaker 1: be in those atmospheres again, I don't know. It feels
Speaker 1: it feels like a wholeness is like return that that
Speaker 1: wasn't there for a while. So it's spiritual. It's definitely,
Speaker 1: I mean, what we do as performers, I have a
Speaker 1: new if anything came out of this, like in if
Speaker 1: I feel really strongly positively about some part of this
Speaker 1: is that I am recognizing the work that we do,
Speaker 1: like the role that we do and not just making culture,
Speaker 1: but like shaping people's real lives experiences like yeah, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I didn't cut you. What would you say? No, I
Speaker 1: was just saying shoutouts shout on the show. So that's
Speaker 1: all good. Well, speaking of things that influence us and
Speaker 1: shape us. You know, we are a music podcasts were
Speaker 1: also politics podcast, so I had to ask about So
Speaker 1: you are the grand niece of the Prime Minister of
Speaker 1: Congo Patrica MoMA, who advocated for self determination for the
Speaker 1: Congist people at a time as they were transitioning away
Speaker 1: from clonialism. Ultimately, it was assassinated for his revolutionary ideas
Speaker 1: and he was killed long before you were born. But
Speaker 1: I wondered if his legacy has influenced you in anyway
Speaker 1: and how that period in the Congo impacted your family history. Yes, sure,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for that question. Um, And it's
Speaker 1: funny because well maybe it's not funny, but my my dad, um,
Speaker 1: he's I love my dad, but he's so um. I
Speaker 1: don't have a better way to put it. He's like shady.
Speaker 1: I love him, but he's like he just he won't
Speaker 1: tell you what he's doing. Like he'll call you like
Speaker 1: I'm in South Africa. It's like okay, well what are
Speaker 1: you doing and it's like click and then he'll be
Speaker 1: support that type of stuff. So like when I was
Speaker 1: a kid, he didn't really talk about this amazing figure
Speaker 1: who was part of our shared history. I didn't. I
Speaker 1: didn't have any understanding that I was connected to this person.
Speaker 1: But it was actually like my history and social studies
Speaker 1: teachers who would be like Lamamba, like are you there're
Speaker 1: a relationship here? Like they would be like fan girling
Speaker 1: and fan boying, and I didn't really understand, like what
Speaker 1: was happening. So finally that produced like conversations with my
Speaker 1: dad about like who is this person and like why
Speaker 1: are people feeling this way about his legacy? And through
Speaker 1: there I started to understand that just the radical importance
Speaker 1: of him as a figure protected particularly I think in
Speaker 1: in that era in the sixties, but then like globally
Speaker 1: as this figure of resistance. Like for our listeners, do
Speaker 1: you mind just like given like a brief little recap
Speaker 1: of La Mumba was Yes. So Patrice Lammba was the
Speaker 1: first democratically elected Prime Minister of the Congo UM and
Speaker 1: he was really pushing for a kind of um anti colonialists.
Speaker 1: They they wanted to be able to govern for themselves.
Speaker 1: And Belgium was the I mean, had committed atrocities in
Speaker 1: the scale of Holocaust UM and so he was kind
Speaker 1: of the figure who was able to push to that place.
Speaker 1: And then he was assassinated in nineteen sixty one by
Speaker 1: by the CIA, essentially UM for you know, inciting this
Speaker 1: kind of new political space. UM. So he really is
Speaker 1: a figure and I realized that in going to the
Speaker 1: continent in various countries that he remains a kind of
Speaker 1: like revolutionary figure for UM thinking about freedom fighting and
Speaker 1: then in terms of the like how that's shaped my work. Um,
Speaker 1: I hadn't really completely thought about it until like I
Speaker 1: was much older, and a lot of discussions about like
Speaker 1: what kind of music you make came up specifically like
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've ever experienced this, Mariah, where
Speaker 1: like being a woman in rap is a very interesting
Speaker 1: space because you will often be positioned against women who
Speaker 1: you don't even necessarily have. There's no beast, there's no
Speaker 1: drama there, so people will be like, oh, thank god
Speaker 1: you don't wrap like Cardi, or they'll they'll position women
Speaker 1: who are coming from a particular lyrical tradition or intellectual
Speaker 1: tradition against women who are coming from a space where
Speaker 1: they may be making party music or like strip club
Speaker 1: fantasy music, whatever that is. And so I really started
Speaker 1: to think about, like why do I make the music
Speaker 1: that I make? And I think part of it is
Speaker 1: that I want to be in conversation with Lamombo these
Speaker 1: ideas around um like what a free space would look
Speaker 1: like for you know, black people, and um, like that's
Speaker 1: what I'm drawn to the music for. Um. Of course,
Speaker 1: everybody has their reasons, but I think that's part of
Speaker 1: why I feel like I'm called to make that specific
Speaker 1: brand of music. Although I would love to make some
Speaker 1: party music at some point, I'm just bad at Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: whether something is like a party joint or not is
Speaker 1: strictly based on like who's taking it in you can
Speaker 1: part it. I've I've listened to some of your stuff
Speaker 1: and I felt like, man, this is some real feel
Speaker 1: good Yeah. I mean like like like I wish I
Speaker 1: could make that, So I appreciate it. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I thank you for asking that that question,
Speaker 1: because it doesn't always come up out or come up um,
Speaker 1: but it is an important threat I think that I'm
Speaker 1: trying to gesture towards. So now I'm wondering, did you like,
Speaker 1: did you grow up in the States? Yeah? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was born in upstate New York Keepsie and then grew
Speaker 1: up in Ithaca. Um, so like too shitty upstate New
Speaker 1: York down So I was like, why, parents, why are
Speaker 1: you doing this? Like why? Um? And you know, especially
Speaker 1: because they hate the cold, like they hate the cold
Speaker 1: more than me. It's like, why would you do this?
Speaker 1: The bag got to secure the bag, I guess, and
Speaker 1: the intellectual bag also not just like the bag bag
Speaker 1: but like the you know right right, I mean, like yeah,
Speaker 1: they're they're happy they had their their intellectual community, but
Speaker 1: it is whole. So I grew up there and um yeah,
Speaker 1: we we went back to visit family, not on my
Speaker 1: dad's side, not in the Congo the first time and
Speaker 1: the only time I've been to the Congo was in
Speaker 1: for as part of my my dissertation research. But um,
Speaker 1: and that's where I saw the love for Patrice Lamm
Speaker 1: but like in practice, like his picture is still emblazoned places. Um.
Speaker 1: But we visited family in the Ivory Coast, which is
Speaker 1: where my mom is from. And I used to I
Speaker 1: used to live in uh, Sierra Leone when I was
Speaker 1: like when I was when I was As a matter
Speaker 1: of fact, I think that's gonna go into one of
Speaker 1: my rised questions coming up about ny Jamison. Yeah do
Speaker 1: you know that about mac I did? Is this? God? Yeah? Wow? Yeah,
Speaker 1: she's like really good friends with my mom and my dad.
Speaker 1: And when I was a baby in Freetown, serle On,
Speaker 1: like she she she nursed me for when I was
Speaker 1: like really sick and like brought me to health. Then yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah she's how was this just now coming up in
Speaker 1: the conference, why was why was did you not leave?
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I've just been wanting to hear you talk.
Speaker 1: We we have like a lot in common the whole
Speaker 1: time you've been talking and stuff like that. But my
Speaker 1: mother's Liberian, my father's American. He worked in the State Department,
Speaker 1: so that's how they met. And um, like the first
Speaker 1: few years of my life, we were in Sierra Leone
Speaker 1: and then Liberia. Then the war started, so we came
Speaker 1: to the States and my mom wanted us. She like
Speaker 1: after the war, she wanted to like go somewhere far
Speaker 1: from Africa, so we went to Toronto for three years experience.
Speaker 1: She experienced three years of Toronto summer. We lived in
Speaker 1: Africa till I was nineteen. Ever gonna to do it right?
Speaker 1: What yo? I'm literally I'm shaking in my boots right now.
Speaker 1: This is crazy, Like I this woman like since I
Speaker 1: was a kid, Like I remember, my mom was very
Speaker 1: intentional about introducing this woman to me, to give me
Speaker 1: this real life superhero. I've gone to see her speaking
Speaker 1: multiple times. That's so cool. I wish we could be
Speaker 1: in person, so I touch your hand or something. I
Speaker 1: had to bring that up sending you will get kicked
Speaker 1: out of it. Thank you, bless the chat. Fool of
Speaker 1: just firing like legacies that we're carrying on that it's funny,
Speaker 1: Like it's funny doing this show for the last two years.
Speaker 1: Is that's been like my I guess, um awakening as
Speaker 1: to how like revered a figure she is For me,
Speaker 1: it's always been like, oh, yeah, you know, it just
Speaker 1: family talking to Mariah, talking to other people. It's like,
Speaker 1: oh wait, I guess, yeah, I guess that is kind
Speaker 1: of a big deal. Like I mean, it's kind of
Speaker 1: like can you think about like Blue Ivyes, he's just
Speaker 1: like my mom is my mom is a Beyonce you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like people who have these iconic
Speaker 1: figures who are in their lives, but they're just you know,
Speaker 1: the role that they take is just like caregiver, you know,
Speaker 1: not just but it's caregiver or person I cuddle with
Speaker 1: verse of my Like, let's transition into back to talking
Speaker 1: about music a little bit. Um. Very interested in your
Speaker 1: process of song creation because you're a producer. You started
Speaker 1: off making beats first, is my understanding, and then you
Speaker 1: brought in rapping. So I'm wondering how beats and rhymes
Speaker 1: influence one another for you in that process of song creation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you for that. It's a great question. UM. So
Speaker 1: I generally, like I've had to give some talks on songwriting,
Speaker 1: so I've been thinking a lot about this UM recently,
Speaker 1: but I don't really UM and I don't know if
Speaker 1: other m cs do this, but I don't really start
Speaker 1: with words for I can't. I have to have a
Speaker 1: beat that i'm writing towards or two. UM. I think
Speaker 1: maybe one time in my life have I ever had
Speaker 1: words form and then try to craft something to fit
Speaker 1: those those words? UM. Generally, I feel like it's such
Speaker 1: an embodied experience of listening that your flow emerges from
Speaker 1: like how you're moving, UM, to the to the production.
Speaker 1: So I usually will produce something not with a with
Speaker 1: a a kind of like content in mind for what
Speaker 1: I want to say, and maybe something will come up
Speaker 1: in that moment. Maybe I just put it in, you know,
Speaker 1: put it away, put set it aside, and then when
Speaker 1: something emerges for me as a topic, it's like, okay,
Speaker 1: let me go back and see what's there that can
Speaker 1: kind of like fit with this thing. So UM, definitely
Speaker 1: the beat shapes the uh flow and generally what I'm
Speaker 1: talking about or speaking towards um, although I do I
Speaker 1: do want to trouble that a little bit, like with
Speaker 1: what we were talking about with party music, you know, like,
Speaker 1: is there a way I want to be more experimental
Speaker 1: in the future with taking sounds that I associate with
Speaker 1: sort of like fun, care free existence and mapping that
Speaker 1: onto you know, my songs about insecurity or whatever whatever
Speaker 1: other like mental health crisis I'm dealing. Can I marry
Speaker 1: these two things together in a in a more experimental way.
Speaker 1: Definitely can. And like I think that's like the that's
Speaker 1: the cheat code, you know, it's just like it's it's
Speaker 1: there's like there's something about the quality of like that
Speaker 1: sort of music, like you know, from an instrumental standpoint,
Speaker 1: that's kind of just it lures people in that I
Speaker 1: think once you have them, you can be talking about
Speaker 1: whatever the funk you want in between it, and you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying there there, you're you're gonna be
Speaker 1: able to if your intention is to like persuade or
Speaker 1: to turn heads or to give insight or whatever, wrapping
Speaker 1: on the stuff that you would think you shouldn't wrap on,
Speaker 1: to wrap that sort of stuff too. I think that's
Speaker 1: like that's the key moving forward, so I can't wait
Speaker 1: to hear it. I was just gonna ask um, like,
Speaker 1: who are some influences that you have, just like m
Speaker 1: m c wise or even producer wise. Okay, so m
Speaker 1: c wise, I would say, kind of in like my
Speaker 1: my immediate frame of reference. I really like open Mike
Speaker 1: Eagle a lot like he to me. It's just like
Speaker 1: he's so introspective. I feel like I understand the contours
Speaker 1: of his brain through his musical exactly. Like he's he's
Speaker 1: very um Like when I teach, I'm always telling my
Speaker 1: students about like specificity, like be specific, be specific, and
Speaker 1: I think Mike Eagles very specific like his his references
Speaker 1: give you a real snapshot into who he is as
Speaker 1: like a thinker and a person. Um. So he's definitely
Speaker 1: somebody that I appreciate. I also really like um more mother. Uh,
Speaker 1: she's she's kind of like noise wrap punk god. Like
Speaker 1: her description on a band camp is so amazing to
Speaker 1: me because it's just like, hold, I gotta pull this
Speaker 1: up because it always we play like new like clips
Speaker 1: for music for people on the show all the times,
Speaker 1: introducing a net Yes, So she calls herself low fi,
Speaker 1: dark rap, chill step, black Girl Blues, which rap, coffee Shop,
Speaker 1: Riot Girls song, Southern Girl, Diddy's black Ghost, like where
Speaker 1: who I Throw the money? So like she she's really
Speaker 1: dope because she's just interweaving all of these kind of
Speaker 1: like sonic spaces in her work, and she she is
Speaker 1: a producer as well. She works with free jazz artists.
Speaker 1: Like she's just very she doesn't care about boundaries, And
Speaker 1: I think that's really compelling to me as as an
Speaker 1: insane and obviously Mariah, I'm a fan. I think that
Speaker 1: you're like so incredible and just brilliant and and such
Speaker 1: a great performer too, which is not always like being
Speaker 1: able to hear it and then also see it. Has
Speaker 1: I got, you know, some minutes after this is somewhere
Speaker 1: I can just go join. Thank you so much for that.
Speaker 1: That means a lot, because I do look up to
Speaker 1: you a great deal and love be music as well. Um,
Speaker 1: And actually, you know, one way I want to ask
Speaker 1: you about because like people ask me about this all
Speaker 1: the time, and so and I read in an interview
Speaker 1: I think it was with loud and quiet, and they
Speaker 1: just I view was exercising your demons through music, And
Speaker 1: I wondered if you actually if you would describe it
Speaker 1: that way, because and I feel like that's an interesting
Speaker 1: why people often characterize music that is about very vulnerable topics. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that um, exercising my demons. I think I appreciate you
Speaker 1: like maybe like pushing back against that that framing, because
Speaker 1: I mean it definitely has felt like a survival mechanism,
Speaker 1: like I have to express this or I'm going to
Speaker 1: explode or implode, like they're a kind of desperation around
Speaker 1: having to speak to that um. But as far as exercising,
Speaker 1: like I mean, the demons are still there, first of all,
Speaker 1: you know, like that's just gonna be there. But I
Speaker 1: think it is about like maybe like chatting with the
Speaker 1: devas or like being being you know, being conversation or
Speaker 1: exposing them rather than like through the music. I'm not,
Speaker 1: I don't feel this anymore. Like that's not the case
Speaker 1: I think for for those of us who struggle within
Speaker 1: these you know, whether it's a chemical imbalance or a
Speaker 1: particular situation or a lifelong and trauma that you're dealing with,
Speaker 1: Like the idea that there's sort of an end to it,
Speaker 1: you release it into the world and then it's no
Speaker 1: longer with you. Is not necessarily how I would characterize
Speaker 1: the musical process for me, but it is it is.
Speaker 1: It provides a lens. Like when I make a music
Speaker 1: about the thing, I think I can see it for
Speaker 1: what it is, like articulate what is going on, and
Speaker 1: maybe understand it a little bit better. But I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's if it's exercised, like I appreciate the
Speaker 1: word what you wor did that talking to the demons
Speaker 1: and like, you know, like you're just having conversation and
Speaker 1: understanding them better. And I think the idea of like
Speaker 1: demonizing our troubles even like it's not very rare to
Speaker 1: feel depression. It's odd rare to feel these things, so
Speaker 1: like they're not necessarily like evil forces to be cast out.
Speaker 1: They're just right human things that are demonized because we
Speaker 1: don't talk about them, and then you talk about them,
Speaker 1: so then they for other people also are demonized. Making
Speaker 1: the song is the act of talking about it, like
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, that's the um. So you're
Speaker 1: you're gonna be going out on the road soon, right,
Speaker 1: because we were talking earlier about you got some shows
Speaker 1: coming up, I do, but you can hear you hear
Speaker 1: the stress of my voice. Um. Yeah, So I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be in May. I have some shows on the well.
Speaker 1: I have one show up here in New England and
Speaker 1: then uh four shows with a friend of mine, Mega Rand.
Speaker 1: I think actually you might have h He's great. He's
Speaker 1: just such a supportive, um like music friend. He always
Speaker 1: will put you on. He's always going to figure out
Speaker 1: a way to to like help out the homies. So
Speaker 1: he actually he want to go on a longer tour,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I can only do four days,
Speaker 1: Like your girl is rusty, Like, just let me do
Speaker 1: my week and come home and reassess. So I'll be
Speaker 1: on the West Coast for four days and then I
Speaker 1: have one more show in New England and then it's
Speaker 1: like I chill, which feels like a good a nice
Speaker 1: first um like entrance back into it. Like if I
Speaker 1: had two or three weeks, I feel like I'd be
Speaker 1: broken down by by the top of week two. I
Speaker 1: don't think I ever want to do more than a
Speaker 1: week ever. Again, I didn't realize how better that was
Speaker 1: from my mental health before until I stopped it, and
Speaker 1: I was like, I've become more. I think that's I
Speaker 1: think that's because like the natural state, like the older
Speaker 1: you get when you're if you're still in the game,
Speaker 1: you know, you eventually get to a point where it's like, man,
Speaker 1: I think a good week log runs about the max
Speaker 1: for me because I remember back in Yo. I think
Speaker 1: this was going on tour for like a month and
Speaker 1: ship like you're coming back with all kinds of crazy bills,
Speaker 1: like just all completely out of whack and yeah, like
Speaker 1: it was like punds from eating fast food all the time. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: it's so hard. It's a rough rough. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: that that part for sure, Like I don't think I
Speaker 1: can really deal with all of the my my older
Speaker 1: body is just like girl, no, it's not it. That's
Speaker 1: why I was super impressed at the super Bowl, like
Speaker 1: all these old bas niggas like Snoopy and like Dr
Speaker 1: Gray like up there like holding down like that's really like,
Speaker 1: but I was I saw some behind the scenes thing
Speaker 1: and I forget it was it. It was either Red
Speaker 1: Man or Method Man or it was like dip set,
Speaker 1: but it was like them like recently and they're on
Speaker 1: the tour bus after a show and they're like, yo,
Speaker 1: there's so much Ben Gay on this bus right now,
Speaker 1: We're all that's where stuff. How far away is? Uh?
Speaker 1: How far I was? I was looking at my tour
Speaker 1: dad saying if I was going to be anywhere near
Speaker 1: Rhode Island, I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be like in
Speaker 1: New hamp Yeah. So one of these dates, one of
Speaker 1: these dates so listeners can go out find tickets and
Speaker 1: come see you and experience thank you. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: even know. I'm like, I'm going on tour at some point.
Speaker 1: Let me like actually pull that up. Um, So the
Speaker 1: date the tour starts on um May thirteen at the
Speaker 1: Waking Windows Festival in Vermont, and then the May is
Speaker 1: the West Coast Seattle down to San Diego, and then
Speaker 1: May nineteen, I'll be in New Hampshire and then back
Speaker 1: home for people who haven't heard your music before. So
Speaker 1: you're gonna go You're about to get back on the
Speaker 1: road after a hiatus not being on the road, so
Speaker 1: you're probably gonna have a lot of fans and a
Speaker 1: lot of people who have been following you that are
Speaker 1: now going to get the chance to see you again.
Speaker 1: So what is like, what are like two of the
Speaker 1: songs two of the joints where you feel, oh man,
Speaker 1: I gotta do these if if people are gonna be
Speaker 1: coming there to see me and they've been listening to
Speaker 1: my music over the years. Uh so, I mean I
Speaker 1: perform a song called ten a d P if I
Speaker 1: think at every show chan who had to be comfortable here?
Speaker 1: I never feel like I'm allowed to breathe rubbins should
Speaker 1: nerds with the old nerds rocket swin of them, just
Speaker 1: because I think it's important. I feel like you were
Speaker 1: saying right, just that this to create a space where
Speaker 1: people can see someone in conversation with the difficult parts
Speaker 1: of their their experience. Um so I do that song.
Speaker 1: And then there's another song it's not released yet, and
Speaker 1: I um wants to like, you know, at some point
Speaker 1: I need to record this thing. But it's a song
Speaker 1: called two Hands, and it's almost I've framed it as
Speaker 1: a response to ten a DP in the sense that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, like uh, I started to have this kind
Speaker 1: of weird thing happened at shows where people would be
Speaker 1: like do ten a DP, or like do your depression song,
Speaker 1: and it's like wait a minute, like I don't this
Speaker 1: doesn't feel good. This doesn't feel good being asked to
Speaker 1: just like like perform the pain, like come through and
Speaker 1: perform your pain for us. Like that felt weird. So
Speaker 1: I wanted to, you know, like there's this weird exploitative
Speaker 1: element that can come up when you're being vulnerable. So
Speaker 1: I wrote two Hands, which is a song about just
Speaker 1: like the things that I find joy in even being
Speaker 1: a broken person. It's like there's still things that just
Speaker 1: the fact that we can create is actually fucking and
Speaker 1: cry able, like that's wild that we can make stuff
Speaker 1: from our brains, and then people will sit with it
Speaker 1: like what the hell. So that's what the song is about.
Speaker 1: And I like to perform it after ten a d
Speaker 1: P to be like right now people looking it can
Speaker 1: only hear that at a show. Yeah, but it will.
Speaker 1: It will be recorded at some point soon and all
Speaker 1: the all the the rest of the songs on this
Speaker 1: next project, it will be on the Well, get out
Speaker 1: there and go through some of these shows if you're nearby. Also,
Speaker 1: I just want to say about quick when you said
Speaker 1: two hands, I thought of that line from body morphe
Speaker 1: You're like, I thought like clop of black, I got
Speaker 1: on p of all the Hands. I was like Oh,
Speaker 1: she doesn't been all the way. It's like really getting
Speaker 1: which maybe that's the continent of the song. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I guess I gotta come to one of your shelves
Speaker 1: so you're not so where can imry? Wait? Where can
Speaker 1: people find I'm just gonna I'm closing up to I
Speaker 1: was just gonna say, wherehere can people find you if
Speaker 1: they're looking for you online? Uh? So I have been
Speaker 1: really trash about posting, like so you can. You can
Speaker 1: see my Instagram posts from like me, it's Samy's music.
Speaker 1: Everything is Samy's music A S A M M U
Speaker 1: S music. UM. And I'm trying to you know, this
Speaker 1: is another part of the anxiety of being an artist
Speaker 1: that you have to be very online, you know, so
Speaker 1: like you know, dealing with that, like, oh, I have
Speaker 1: to promote the shows on the tour. I need to
Speaker 1: probably tell people that there is a tour coming. Um.
Speaker 1: So I'll be a little bit more online over the
Speaker 1: next month or so, and then you can just go
Speaker 1: to Sama's music dot com for my music stuff and
Speaker 1: then in ago dash lk dot com to go see
Speaker 1: my like other stuff that I'm working, things that I'm
Speaker 1: writing about like that kind of stuff. Well, thank you
Speaker 1: so much for joining us. It's been a pleasure. Um,
Speaker 1: good luck out there. You know, treat yourself well away
Speaker 1: on the road and in general general. Everyone, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: And if y'all, If y'all are ever like providences between
Speaker 1: Boston and New York, so if you're going or planning
Speaker 1: an East Coast tour, like, just plan a stop in
Speaker 1: Providence and we can let's like figure out a show
Speaker 1: for y'all. Ah, you thought that we were about to
Speaker 1: do a music discussion, didn't you send music discussion being Now,
Speaker 1: I promise we'll get into the music. We'll do a
Speaker 1: music discussion, unlike the next episode or something like that.
Speaker 1: We haven't done one of those in a long time.
Speaker 1: But that was Sam Macio. That was like it's been
Speaker 1: so long, just like knowing about her and being in
Speaker 1: the same places that she's been in that to have
Speaker 1: like a conversation with her for the first time, that
Speaker 1: was dope. Um. I will be on the road next week.
Speaker 1: You can go on my Instagram page Dope Underscore Knife
Speaker 1: and check out those dates. But if memory does serve,
Speaker 1: I do believe I'm gonna be in the Shua New
Speaker 1: Hampshire on April. That's gonna be an issue of Garden
Speaker 1: and yeah, I just check for the rest of those days.
Speaker 1: I think Troy, New York is gonna be the next
Speaker 1: day and so and so forth. You can find all
Speaker 1: that stuff. Um On Friday tomorrow for y'all, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be dropping a new song with my homie Miles Bulling
Speaker 1: and it's called It's Not Always Sunshine. And instead of
Speaker 1: the freestyle wraps, that's what we're gonna play for you
Speaker 1: guys today. So I'm gonna let that take you home.
Speaker 1: Let's hit it shows. It's not all sunshine, It's not
Speaker 1: always show. Sometimes it's dark, smoke clouds burning down the field,
Speaker 1: coated and bust green copper stain trenched into renso downpouring
Speaker 1: out my flame. I wish I felt boring for a change.
Speaker 1: Fuck Dirty, please stop men's knocking. He's dropping out of school.
Speaker 1: Du Drugs called it cool. I stayed though, hanging by
Speaker 1: a threat. And when my friends O Deana saw that
Speaker 1: life was fucking cool. And I'm surprised that on my debt,
Speaker 1: Dirty fit feeling. Only an attic knows when you can't
Speaker 1: get your way those issues and substances get misused, and
Speaker 1: you no longer taste food, smell flowers, or hear birds
Speaker 1: emotions on you. You see mouths but can't hear words,
Speaker 1: and you need out, but need the key first. Bravery
Speaker 1: a balancing act full of love and full of dangerous waters.
Speaker 1: Waiting on unstable tables reminds me of relationships, because they're
Speaker 1: rarely holding up, and you're the best service. And the
Speaker 1: wren was always paid in tips. You bounced in place
Speaker 1: to place like a sailor of the land, docking up
Speaker 1: at courts, trusting strangers, changing plans. It takes bravery to
Speaker 1: start again again again again. You have mastered new beginnings.
Speaker 1: It takes bravery to start again. You were mastering the
Speaker 1: beginnings all sunshine. Sometimes to be bread, some time to
Speaker 1: child sold you leave your grandma dad, you want some answer,
Speaker 1: to go and get your damn palm bread. Negativity be
Speaker 1: firsting out my black ball. It's cancerous. Who's gonna be
Speaker 1: the last of us? And I'll meet God? I asked
Speaker 1: him this. Even if it's blashomissus, we'd be so dismayed.
Speaker 1: So we're afraid. Why low tabletless wish my dad, homies
Speaker 1: come back like they was lace arous, something to a
Speaker 1: pit and focus bottomless and free falling. Hope them faster
Speaker 1: than my problems. But they keep calling, looking at the
Speaker 1: nicest folk, caught up in the ice and dope. But
Speaker 1: I'm fortunate that my own dragon. It's a light to smoke, moke.
Speaker 1: I wish I could take the pain away. I know
Speaker 1: you are the same as maid, pack it up and
Speaker 1: saving for a rainy day. I don't believe it help.
Speaker 1: It's still ignoring where it's the same, and say they
Speaker 1: be leaving shells. They just bload it up and aim
Speaker 1: and spray that there's the high cost of living when
Speaker 1: you think about it, I'm cheap, probably a cowward, and
Speaker 1: I think about it in clouds around my crown, and
Speaker 1: they leave me some round and scared of new beginnings.
Speaker 1: But it's bravery. When bravery start again again the Jain again.
Speaker 1: You were mastered New Beginnings. You were mastered New Beginnings.
Speaker 1: It sakes bravery to start again and again the Jain again.
Speaker 1: You were mastered New Beginnings. Shot you were mastered New Beginnings.
Speaker 1: Sunshine Sun Show and do Tony Move with Franca And
Speaker 1: you were listening to Waiting on reparations, See you next week.
Speaker 1: Listen to Waiting on Reparations on the I Heart Radio app,
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.