WEBVTT - Afrofuturism and Academia with Sammus, PhD 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:08.440 You are now listening to Waiting on Reparations production of 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:14.920 I Heart Radio. Yeah, yeah, you're listening to Waiting on Reparations. Indeed, 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:19.560 ladies and gentlemen, I'm not even going to mess around 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:22.000 or make you wait too long, because we don't want 0:00:22.000 --> 0:00:25.320 to wait. Today's episode is kind of special for us, 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:28.160 you know, like it's only so often we're always trying 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:30.640 to book interesting guests on this show, and every now 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:32.720 and then we get the opportunity to book somebody who 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:37.680 were both very enamored with. And even though you read 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:41.000 the description and you've seen who it is, I'm gonna 0:00:41.080 --> 0:00:45.559 let Mariah handle the introduction because she has it all 0:00:45.680 --> 0:00:48.960 written out, is perfect, so we're just gonna get into it. 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:52.600 So without further ado. Oh jeez, how do I you 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:54.720 get do? How do I really have the honor of 0:00:54.760 --> 0:00:58.360 introducing our guest today? Well? I guess today. Sam's a 0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:01.960 k A DR And I'm the Kasongo and After. A 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:05.000 futurist rap artist and producer from Ethnica, New York. She 0:01:05.120 --> 0:01:08.560 holds a PhD in Science and Technology Studies from Cornell 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:10.960 It is currently a professor in the music department at 0:01:10.959 --> 0:01:13.920 Brown University. There's a law more that could be said 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:15.960 about cap Law. You are Dr Samis, but let's let 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:19.959 that unfold in the conversation. So first off, I love 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:21.800 to love to ask people. This is my favorite thing 0:01:21.800 --> 0:01:24.120 to ask people these days. Everybody else, Oh how are you? 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:25.920 And you're like, well, good, But what has been the 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:29.760 highlight of your day so far? Today? Oh? The highlight 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:34.199 of my day. I made some amazing eggs for breakfast. Yea, 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:39.440 the most important meal of the day. Oh yeah, what's 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:42.240 your what's your secret to amazing eggs? Well, I'm a 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:46.560 terrible chef, so um. I recently have been putting butter 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:52.040 into my eggs and them just have this more savory 0:01:52.360 --> 0:01:57.040 um kind of texture, like good mouth feel. So yeah, 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:00.160 I felt really excited because I'm just such a terrible up. 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:02.880 So what I'm able to make something that it's somewhat tasty. 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:07.160 It's like it's an accomplished goost your self esteem so 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:10.720 much like, yeah I did that. I like body and 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:13.400 like cooking for yourself like a form of self care. 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:17.840 It sure is, but it's hard to like it is 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:22.680 you know, real for real people who who understand the practice. 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:26.160 It's like there's so much commitment. You gotta just prep 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:30.600 like just figuring out all the formulas. As chemistry, it's 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:35.560 a lot having the right like spices and like implements. 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:39.000 You tend to the tools, all right, tools like I 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.000 don't even have like a meat mentor like what are 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:45.880 you telling me? Too much eggs? To make some good eggs? Man, 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:49.160 that will start your day, right, Um well, let's get 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:50.600 on to them to find out a little bit about 0:02:50.600 --> 0:02:52.880 what you've been up to. Because last time I saw you, 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:55.920 I'm pretty sure it was in d C at Songbird 0:02:55.960 --> 0:03:01.400 Cafe and the day, Yeah, for this day, your encouragement, 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.720 like we talked of the crowd and you're really encouraging 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:05.600 to me about my PhD it stuff, And I was like, 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:07.840 oh my god, to this day I remember that, but 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:10.400 I was too out the nineteen and a lot has 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:13.560 happened since then. So what has transpired in your last 0:03:13.600 --> 0:03:15.760 two and a half years as an academic and a 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:21.639 cultural worker? Yeah? So, um so, basically in two thousand nineteen, 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:25.160 I was just wrapping up my my dissertation. Um so, 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:27.440 let me actually rewind to the top of the year. 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.959 So I was like looking at my my dissertation kind 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:34.840 of being finished, and like what was next? And I 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.520 was feeling like, Okay, I'm gonna be a full time 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:41.560 working musician. I had zero plans to continue into the academy. 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:44.440 I was like, peace, I'm done with that. Um. And 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:48.360 then a mentor of mine, UM Dr Jennifer Stover, who's 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.520 written this amazing book called The Sonic Color Line, she 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:53.280 reached out to me and was like, hey, have you 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:56.560 seen this post doc at Brown for someone who teaches 0:03:56.640 --> 0:04:00.160 in like Afro disport music making, And I feel like 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.200 this might kind of be up your alley. UM. So 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:05.480 I was like sure, I tied to it, and then 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:09.080 actually got it and was like whoa, that was unexpected. 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:13.320 But then it was also this kind of o ship 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:15.960 moment because I had to have my PhD by the 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.400 start date, and the start date was in July, and 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.880 I did not yet have a PhD. So it was like, Okay, 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:24.200 I have to make this happen in the next four 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:29.760 to five months. So um that that semester was like 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.760 the worst inmester of my life. I was writing like 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:36.440 I had a gun into my head. It was so stressful, 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.400 and I had I worked with a dissertation writing coach 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.280 who would just like she would just push me like 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:45.159 you gotta keep writing today. So it was really really difficult, 0:04:45.320 --> 0:04:47.600 but I finished it in time and I was able 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:50.640 to graduate and UM and then ended up moving to 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:55.880 Providence in twenty to start composition UM for the fall semester. 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:58.960 So it was I mean, it was a trip like 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:04.200 we could talk about. But yeah, that that sounds Yeah 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:07.320 that just give me very deeply because um, you know, 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:10.560 I'm both time, my discinsion done in three weeks, and 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:15.120 my mental health is just not right. Not only that, 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:18.000 it's like impacting how I'm treating other people. That's the 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:20.440 thing that's like not cool. I'm like I can saw her, 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:24.360 it's fine, but like I'm like yelling at people everything. 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:27.680 It affects everything. When you're under that that that kind 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:31.440 of timeline and stress and constraint, and when you're deep 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.800 in the project like that, it's it's so difficult to 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:38.080 just be in like a clear mental health space. So 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:42.360 I I completely completely understand that space and I can't 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:44.800 wait for you to be free of it. Certainly, was 0:05:44.920 --> 0:05:47.480 all that stuff that went down, was that pre or 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:53.760 post pandemic that was free? That was pandemic? Yeah, yeah, um, 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:55.919 And it's funny because I was I was on tour 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.560 at the beginning of twenty nineteen, and I remember I 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:01.520 was like in back of the van, like trying, just 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:05.279 desperately trying to write, like you know, everyone's had having 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.240 a key key living their best life, and I was 0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:09.520 there as hell because it was like I don't get 0:06:09.560 --> 0:06:12.360 to critake and anything. I just have this this theme, 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:16.640 this demon looming over my my my head. Um. So yeah. 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.160 Then I moved to Providence from Philly. I was in 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:22.800 Philly for four years um, and then came up to 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:26.080 Providence and that's been it's been a trip being here 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:30.400 and getting situated. It's a different experience. And then halfway 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:33.719 through my first year was when the pandemic unfolded. So 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:36.520 then I moved back to Philly and was there for 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.760 two for the remainder of the year and into the 0:06:39.760 --> 0:06:43.599 next year. And now I'm back in Providence after having 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:47.760 like taught online basically for the more set and stable 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:53.520 now in terms of like yeah, yeah, like and during 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:57.400 I should mention that during that two year period, I 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:59.840 was just at Brown as a post doc, so I thought, okay, 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:02.080 I got to figure out my next steps. And then 0:07:02.120 --> 0:07:05.359 I was extended and offered to be an assistant professor. 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:07.920 So it was like, Okay, I have a little bit 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:13.320 more um like time, the timeline is different now because 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:15.800 I was thinking during the pandemic, I'm also gonna have 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:17.640 to figure out what the next step is. So it 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.679 was a little bit of stability after a few years, 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:24.280 but just not not really knowing. So, how has like 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:27.400 academia f at all. I mean, you're already you know 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:32.520 in I guess at Cornell for eight years things, so 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:35.480 so like, particularly with the pandemic and now you're taking 0:07:35.480 --> 0:07:38.440 on a new prefectorial role, how has that influenced, like 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:42.000 your ability to make art um? As it informed in 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:49.480 any way? Lord? Well, so the first thing is it informed? 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:51.680 It be in the sense that I haven't really been 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:54.920 able to make that much art um because I was 0:07:55.480 --> 0:08:01.480 so I realized this um like into maybe March or 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.440 April of twenty when lockdown was sort of like when 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.000 we were in lockdown, but I was so burnt out. 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:12.640 I was so completely fried and just had not really 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:15.440 processed it and had kind of accepted that as like 0:08:15.480 --> 0:08:18.200 the normal pace of things that like, yeah, you should 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:21.040 be trying to do five million things and tour and 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:24.280 right and be in conversation and do this and the third. 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:28.920 So when we had to slow down, UM, I cracked hard. 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.760 I was like, I don't want to do anything. I 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.240 don't want to use my brain to do anything. My 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:41.560 brain is at least yeah. So really, for for the 0:08:41.640 --> 0:08:46.079 past to two wish years, I've been more focused on 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:51.440 UM two projects. One of them is UM. It's a 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:55.840 video game project with some friends who started a studio 0:08:56.480 --> 0:08:59.400 UM called glow Up Games, and we're working on this 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.240 project and they've wanted someone to come in who has 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:06.040 kind of a rap background to engineer this like rap mechanic. 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:08.880 So I it's like it was a very specific skill 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:12.240 set that I was able to sal for this this 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:15.719 game project. So I've been working on some rhymes to 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:18.600 kind of figure out this like rhyme mechanic in the game. 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:22.360 And then the other project is working with a friend 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:25.160 of mine. She's an incredible MC named a Ku and 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:29.280 Naru UM and she is She's developed this idea to 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:34.600 to to create a digital archive UM that traces the 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.200 contributions of women and girls in hip hop over the 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:42.040 past fifty years. So UM like contributing in that way 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:45.840 has been really like gratifying, but as far as making 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:49.560 my own stuff, I haven't. I haven't even had the 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.439 I feel like the focus to just sit and write. 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:57.480 And I think it's it's um it's like a scary 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.040 space for me right now because I think revisit it 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:04.719 in the page is like I think sitting with the 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.240 um you know, the trauma of the past few years, 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:12.560 just you know, like I had these upcoming shows and 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.800 I'm realizing, Man, I haven't performed live in two and 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:18.840 a half years, Like what is that going to feel? Like? Like, 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:21.440 am I you know, have I lost it? Do I 0:10:21.440 --> 0:10:24.640 still have like all these questions that sort of emerge 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:28.240 around creation that I've been trying to avoid for the 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:31.080 past two years that now I have to get back into. 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:34.000 But yeah, it's so interesting the way that paused and 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:37.600 impacted folks differently, Like it didn't slow things down for everyone, 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:39.720 but some found a lot of creative energy and that 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.480 slow down other people and it was a moment for 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:46.000 them to actually assess like there where they were at 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:50.679 and like actually, no, this is not cool, you know. 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:54.560 And yeah, the various ways that like that like slow 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:58.400 down really allowed people to things to emerge, things to 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.160 emerge that everyone had been ignoring or not really. You know, 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:05.600 I had like I had like two two sides of 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.840 that when the pandemic hit. Like the first half of 0:11:08.960 --> 0:11:13.840 Lockdown was like, oh man, nothing matters. What is art? 0:11:14.160 --> 0:11:16.560 There's there's no purpose or point in any of those. 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:18.719 And then the second half was like, oh wait, things 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:23.000 are gonna be fine. Okay, what's Yeah, the starter started 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:26.719 writing like all over the points. Yeah, that's real, and 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:31.439 I like it impacted me in waves. So I think 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:35.000 when Lockdown first started, you know, I was just kind 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.480 of perplexed, like Okay, well, what's what's going to happen 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:40.000 with this universe? And had kind of these existential crises 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.040 of like like you said, what is what is a wrap? 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:48.040 What is what is creativity? But then I remember, I 0:11:48.080 --> 0:11:52.000 don't even remember what happened, but there was one day 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.880 where I suddenly felt this deep pain and I missed 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.800 the performance space. And it was like very specific things 0:11:58.880 --> 0:12:02.240 like I missed writing my set list, like scribbling it 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.360 down at the beginning of the set, or I missed 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.720 like the sticky floors of dive bar. Yeah, you know, 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.679 like all of these kind of textual things that maybe 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:14.480 you don't immediately identify as like the most important part 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:17.320 of being an artist. But they add you know, they 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:21.640 add joy to your your experience. So I felt a 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:25.880 really acute pain in that particular moment, and so I 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:28.840 feel like it's it's ebbed and flowed. Um. But now 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.880 I feel much more purpose driven than I was at 0:12:31.880 --> 0:12:33.600 the at the top of the thing. At the top, 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:37.079 it was like me and Mariah both recently started doing 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:40.400 shows again and stuff too. So you you will, you will, 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:45.400 you will enjoy it. It's it's like a vike. I'm 0:12:45.400 --> 0:12:47.520 pretty sure my first show I played, though, I like 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:49.880 just forgot a lot of the lyrics because you're so 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:52.480 love the memory and you played so much you don't 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:53.720 worry about I got up there and I was like, 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:58.079 what is this song? Yeah, that's what I'm not trying 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:03.440 to say that to scare you know, but like, you know, 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.120 I was way too high the first one that I 0:13:06.160 --> 0:13:08.720 did back, like, I ran like my voice was shot. 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:11.360 After like the first verse of the first song, I 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:13.959 was like, oh, crap, I gotta go through thirty more minutes. 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:20.160 This is not gonna work practically, case on a physiological level, 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:24.000 like I actually I just went to a jazz uh 0:13:24.400 --> 0:13:28.280 kind of show yesterday, and you know, the music was incredible, 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.000 but I was so focused on the performers because it 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:35.000 was like physically like they are just at the top 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:36.720 of their game to be able to do what they 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:39.880 were doing for thirty minutes straight, and it was stressing 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.480 me because I was like, dang, I haven't been really 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.680 will I be able to be in that kind of shape? 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.600 Like my voice, my my memory like all that stuff. 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:53.720 How's it going to function in the when it's game time. 0:13:53.760 --> 0:13:55.800 But it's good to know that you all have have 0:13:55.920 --> 0:13:58.480 gotten back on the stage, like thank god. And it's 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:00.240 a little creeky and first of the cree you buy 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:03.360 such getting back on you know, I mean the ross 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:06.040 a little bit of gears, but it goes like it's crazy. 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:09.040 One of the things that I like it was coming 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.120 to grips with during the pandemic and stuff, was how 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:17.440 much of being like an m C or artists whatever 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:19.000 you want to call it, Like, how much of that 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:22.840 was part of like my identity since I've been since 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.560 I was eighteen, you know, so like things like you 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.440 were just describing like the stickiness of a dive, but 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.800 like to me, that's like literally like yeah, that's life. 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:33.600 You know what I mean. It's it's it's it's it's 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.960 suthing I identified with so much that I don't know, 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:39.880 like to finally get back on stage and to finally 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:43.440 be in those atmospheres again, I don't know. It feels 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.720 it feels like a wholeness is like return that that 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:50.920 wasn't there for a while. So it's spiritual. It's definitely, 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:54.000 I mean, what we do as performers, I have a 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:58.760 new if anything came out of this, like in if 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.640 I feel really strongly positively about some part of this 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.800 is that I am recognizing the work that we do, 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:08.000 like the role that we do and not just making culture, 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:17.560 but like shaping people's real lives experiences like yeah, I'm sorry, 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:19.520 I didn't cut you. What would you say? No, I 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:24.680 was just saying shoutouts shout on the show. So that's 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.760 all good. Well, speaking of things that influence us and 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.120 shape us. You know, we are a music podcasts were 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:35.440 also politics podcast, so I had to ask about So 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.320 you are the grand niece of the Prime Minister of 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:41.760 Congo Patrica MoMA, who advocated for self determination for the 0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:45.520 Congist people at a time as they were transitioning away 0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:49.760 from clonialism. Ultimately, it was assassinated for his revolutionary ideas 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:51.880 and he was killed long before you were born. But 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.920 I wondered if his legacy has influenced you in anyway 0:15:55.000 --> 0:16:00.280 and how that period in the Congo impacted your family history. Yes, sure, 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:02.880 thank you so much for that question. Um, And it's 0:16:02.880 --> 0:16:07.120 funny because well maybe it's not funny, but my my dad, um, 0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:11.960 he's I love my dad, but he's so um. I 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:13.880 don't have a better way to put it. He's like shady. 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:17.640 I love him, but he's like he just he won't 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.280 tell you what he's doing. Like he'll call you like 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.200 I'm in South Africa. It's like okay, well what are 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:23.960 you doing and it's like click and then he'll be 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.520 support that type of stuff. So like when I was 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:32.520 a kid, he didn't really talk about this amazing figure 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.440 who was part of our shared history. I didn't. I 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:38.640 didn't have any understanding that I was connected to this person. 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:43.000 But it was actually like my history and social studies 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.880 teachers who would be like Lamamba, like are you there're 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.640 a relationship here? Like they would be like fan girling 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:52.600 and fan boying, and I didn't really understand, like what 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:56.880 was happening. So finally that produced like conversations with my 0:16:56.960 --> 0:17:00.360 dad about like who is this person and like why 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:03.440 are people feeling this way about his legacy? And through 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:06.920 there I started to understand that just the radical importance 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:10.760 of him as a figure protected particularly I think in 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:14.679 in that era in the sixties, but then like globally 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:19.639 as this figure of resistance. Like for our listeners, do 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:23.639 you mind just like given like a brief little recap 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:28.679 of La Mumba was Yes. So Patrice Lammba was the 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:33.359 first democratically elected Prime Minister of the Congo UM and 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:38.080 he was really pushing for a kind of um anti colonialists. 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:41.320 They they wanted to be able to govern for themselves. 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:46.480 And Belgium was the I mean, had committed atrocities in 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:50.880 the scale of Holocaust UM and so he was kind 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.520 of the figure who was able to push to that place. 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:56.439 And then he was assassinated in nineteen sixty one by 0:17:56.480 --> 0:18:01.159 by the CIA, essentially UM for you know, inciting this 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.560 kind of new political space. UM. So he really is 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:08.359 a figure and I realized that in going to the 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:12.400 continent in various countries that he remains a kind of 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:17.240 like revolutionary figure for UM thinking about freedom fighting and 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:22.560 then in terms of the like how that's shaped my work. Um, 0:18:22.600 --> 0:18:27.000 I hadn't really completely thought about it until like I 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:31.600 was much older, and a lot of discussions about like 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:35.240 what kind of music you make came up specifically like 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:38.760 I don't know if you've ever experienced this, Mariah, where 0:18:39.880 --> 0:18:42.440 like being a woman in rap is a very interesting 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:49.200 space because you will often be positioned against women who 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:52.720 you don't even necessarily have. There's no beast, there's no 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:55.200 drama there, so people will be like, oh, thank god 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:58.280 you don't wrap like Cardi, or they'll they'll position women 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:01.840 who are coming from a particular lyrical tradition or intellectual 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.640 tradition against women who are coming from a space where 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.000 they may be making party music or like strip club 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:10.520 fantasy music, whatever that is. And so I really started 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.520 to think about, like why do I make the music 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:16.480 that I make? And I think part of it is 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.680 that I want to be in conversation with Lamombo these 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:24.920 ideas around um like what a free space would look 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:29.400 like for you know, black people, and um, like that's 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:32.680 what I'm drawn to the music for. Um. Of course, 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.399 everybody has their reasons, but I think that's part of 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.159 why I feel like I'm called to make that specific 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.480 brand of music. Although I would love to make some 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:47.760 party music at some point, I'm just bad at Like, yeah, 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:51.600 whether something is like a party joint or not is 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:54.920 strictly based on like who's taking it in you can 0:19:55.040 --> 0:19:57.520 part it. I've I've listened to some of your stuff 0:19:57.560 --> 0:20:00.320 and I felt like, man, this is some real feel 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:05.280 good Yeah. I mean like like like I wish I 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:10.119 could make that, So I appreciate it. I appreciate it. 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:14.200 But yeah, I thank you for asking that that question, 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:17.880 because it doesn't always come up out or come up um, 0:20:17.920 --> 0:20:20.240 but it is an important threat I think that I'm 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:24.399 trying to gesture towards. So now I'm wondering, did you like, 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:28.960 did you grow up in the States? Yeah? Yeah, I 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:33.920 was born in upstate New York Keepsie and then grew 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:37.280 up in Ithaca. Um, so like too shitty upstate New 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:39.959 York down So I was like, why, parents, why are 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:43.960 you doing this? Like why? Um? And you know, especially 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:46.240 because they hate the cold, like they hate the cold 0:20:46.280 --> 0:20:48.399 more than me. It's like, why would you do this? 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:51.200 The bag got to secure the bag, I guess, and 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:53.840 the intellectual bag also not just like the bag bag 0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:57.160 but like the you know right right, I mean, like yeah, 0:20:57.160 --> 0:20:59.879 they're they're happy they had their their intellectual community, but 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:04.920 it is whole. So I grew up there and um yeah, 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:08.159 we we went back to visit family, not on my 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:10.560 dad's side, not in the Congo the first time and 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:12.200 the only time I've been to the Congo was in 0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:17.680 for as part of my my dissertation research. But um, 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:21.000 and that's where I saw the love for Patrice Lamm 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:26.359 but like in practice, like his picture is still emblazoned places. Um. 0:21:26.400 --> 0:21:28.560 But we visited family in the Ivory Coast, which is 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:33.000 where my mom is from. And I used to I 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:37.320 used to live in uh, Sierra Leone when I was 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:39.280 like when I was when I was As a matter 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.480 of fact, I think that's gonna go into one of 0:21:41.480 --> 0:21:47.200 my rised questions coming up about ny Jamison. Yeah do 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:57.400 you know that about mac I did? Is this? God? Yeah? Wow? Yeah, 0:21:57.480 --> 0:21:59.760 she's like really good friends with my mom and my dad. 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:03.359 And when I was a baby in Freetown, serle On, 0:22:03.600 --> 0:22:06.399 like she she she nursed me for when I was 0:22:06.440 --> 0:22:09.600 like really sick and like brought me to health. Then yeah, 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:12.840 yeah she's how was this just now coming up in 0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:15.200 the conference, why was why was did you not leave? 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:19.320 I'm sorry, I've just been wanting to hear you talk. 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:23.160 We we have like a lot in common the whole 0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:25.280 time you've been talking and stuff like that. But my 0:22:25.280 --> 0:22:29.200 mother's Liberian, my father's American. He worked in the State Department, 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:34.640 so that's how they met. And um, like the first 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:36.879 few years of my life, we were in Sierra Leone 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:39.880 and then Liberia. Then the war started, so we came 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:43.439 to the States and my mom wanted us. She like 0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:46.760 after the war, she wanted to like go somewhere far 0:22:47.240 --> 0:22:52.040 from Africa, so we went to Toronto for three years experience. 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:54.879 She experienced three years of Toronto summer. We lived in 0:22:54.920 --> 0:23:01.880 Africa till I was nineteen. Ever gonna to do it right? 0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:07.720 What yo? I'm literally I'm shaking in my boots right now. 0:23:07.760 --> 0:23:12.159 This is crazy, Like I this woman like since I 0:23:12.200 --> 0:23:15.800 was a kid, Like I remember, my mom was very 0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:18.760 intentional about introducing this woman to me, to give me 0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:22.000 this real life superhero. I've gone to see her speaking 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:26.720 multiple times. That's so cool. I wish we could be 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:34.679 in person, so I touch your hand or something. I 0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:36.400 had to bring that up sending you will get kicked 0:23:36.400 --> 0:23:39.480 out of it. Thank you, bless the chat. Fool of 0:23:39.600 --> 0:23:44.119