Speaker 1: Warning, today's episode could date spoilers for the first season
Speaker 1: of Dune Prophecy on HBO, and of course the wider
Speaker 1: Dude Cannon be warned.
Speaker 2: Hello, Jason Concepcio and I'm a busafar.
Speaker 1: And welcome back to x ray Vision, the podcast where
Speaker 1: we dive deep, deeper than a sad word. It's your
Speaker 1: favorite shows, movies, comics of pop culture coming to you
Speaker 1: from our podcast will Ward bring you three episodes a
Speaker 1: week every Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.
Speaker 3: In today's episode, we are joined once again by Jason
Speaker 3: and h from Escape Patch formerly known as Dune Pod
Speaker 3: to talk about Dune Prophecy season one in its entirety.
Speaker 3: Thank you guys for joining us. Lovely to have you back.
Speaker 4: It's a delight, thank you for having us back to
Speaker 4: talk about this very important piece of pop culture.
Speaker 5: Dive right into it. Can we just take a minute
Speaker 5: and give a shout out to the goat and say
Speaker 5: rest in power our Dune King David Lynch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, great, even with even with all the changes,
Speaker 1: an absolutely unique vision that I think is stands on
Speaker 1: its own as a just an incredible imagining of that
Speaker 1: world and some of the things honestly like the navigators
Speaker 1: feel like that's what they should look like.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that's right.
Speaker 4: I think I think he defined parts of the Dune
Speaker 4: universe straight out of his imagining. That made it more
Speaker 4: vivid than even what's in the book. Even though the
Speaker 4: movie is beloved by bayouts, I'm getting choked up. No,
Speaker 4: even though the movie is beloved, it was a failure.
Speaker 4: But still his imprint on the Dune universe is eternal,
Speaker 4: and these just a tremend this visionary director.
Speaker 6: So we will miss him.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love you, David.
Speaker 1: Well, let's so, guys, season one of Dune Prophecy in
Speaker 1: the books. Yes, we expect to season two. I think
Speaker 1: we should. You know, season two will be coming. Our
Speaker 1: thoughts now that this has we have finished six episodes,
Speaker 1: not a tremendous amount of runway to get a story
Speaker 1: off the ground. Certainly a story is sprawling and interwoven,
Speaker 1: as this one is spanning multiple time frames, the past,
Speaker 1: the president in some of the future. Your thoughts on
Speaker 1: season one, Well.
Speaker 5: So we were you know, we were a little nervous
Speaker 5: about the show. We were excited because we want more
Speaker 5: stories and we want to get we want to get
Speaker 5: into the world. But Obviously, we were nervous that it
Speaker 5: was not based on some of Frank's works. Jason and
Speaker 5: I have not read unlike Abou, you know, we're only
Speaker 5: lightweight Dune fans. We have not read all the Brian
Speaker 5: Herbert books. And then it had a very troubled production,
Speaker 5: right with the original showrunner getting fired and then the
Speaker 5: guy from Chernobyl coming in.
Speaker 2: We're like, yes, this is gonna be incredible.
Speaker 5: Then he leaves, and so it's we were sort of
Speaker 5: a little skeptical. There were some real highlights the production
Speaker 5: design and the costumes and the sets and seeing some
Speaker 5: of the stuff was really amazing, and some of the
Speaker 5: performances were really really incredible, especially with the younger cast members.
Speaker 5: But then there were just also some misses, which I
Speaker 5: am sure we are going to get into in this discussion.
Speaker 5: Just some of the feeling unanchored, and I think it's
Speaker 5: largely related to the way that they laid it out
Speaker 5: time wise, starting in the present, jumping back to the
Speaker 5: bast and so that for me was something that made
Speaker 5: it a little harder to grab hold up to the series.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think to build on that, my take is
Speaker 4: is maybe a little briefer which is just it's not
Speaker 4: that good.
Speaker 6: Like the show is just not that good.
Speaker 4: Like it's got some huge head. We have a podcast
Speaker 4: that was formly called Dune, And like my repeated feeling
Speaker 4: when watching this is like if I am bored by
Speaker 4: this show, who is this show for?
Speaker 6: Whom is this show?
Speaker 4: Because like, you know, it's just it wasn't there There
Speaker 4: are bones there, there are great performances, great actors, great
Speaker 4: production design, high production values.
Speaker 6: The actual writing of.
Speaker 4: The show is just very clunky and not that good.
Speaker 4: There's they've kind of got Denny Villeneuve's Dune, like all
Speaker 4: of the grandiosity of that property stuffed into kind of
Speaker 4: a like you know, see Tier Star Trek the Next
Speaker 4: Generation episode and like that's and that's just kind of
Speaker 4: that's just kind of a bummer. So I hope in
Speaker 4: season two they just kind of figure out how.
Speaker 6: To write better. I guess.
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm like, you know, how to make it
Speaker 4: just a tighter show with less expository theater and like
Speaker 4: more focused on one story and and just have it
Speaker 4: be a bit tighter.
Speaker 1: Aaboo your thoughts.
Speaker 3: You know, I would echo that sentiment as well. I
Speaker 3: also wasn't the biggest fan of the show. It didn't
Speaker 3: land with me, and as a Dune super fan, I
Speaker 3: found a number of things disappointing. I will say there
Speaker 3: was a lot of Dune lore in the show, which
Speaker 3: was nice, that was fun. But I think to Jason's point,
Speaker 3: the storytelling, the writing is where it fell short for me,
Speaker 3: and six episodes just wasn't enough time to tell the stories,
Speaker 3: the multiple stories, multiple plot threads, multiple character arcs that
Speaker 3: they were trying to cram into six hour long episodes.
Speaker 3: Episode six I think was actually even ninety minutes and
Speaker 3: still not enough time to get the characters and story
Speaker 3: moving towards satisfying not just conclusions, but towards satisfying moments
Speaker 3: as well. You know, parts felt rushed, A lot of
Speaker 3: stuff was assumed to happen off screen, a lot of
Speaker 3: character development happening off screen. It was disappointed, and for
Speaker 3: what it's worth, I think, like living in the shadow
Speaker 3: of a Danny villenef masterpiece is a very.
Speaker 2: Difficult place to live in.
Speaker 3: Yes, and so to be given the directive that here's
Speaker 3: the master work upon which you are making the show,
Speaker 3: make it just as good that is that is a
Speaker 3: tall order. And so I do feel for the fine
Speaker 3: folks at HBO who were given that order and did
Speaker 3: their best to live up to it and in some
Speaker 3: ways did in other ways I think fell quite tragically short.
Speaker 1: My take very similar to all of yours. I think
Speaker 1: it was I watched episode one and thought, okay, a
Speaker 1: little bit of a mess, but there's good. I feel
Speaker 1: like there's something in there, there's bones in there that
Speaker 1: can emerge. And then really it didn't start turning back
Speaker 1: towards that those glimmers of optimism until maybe episode five
Speaker 1: and parts of episode six. It felt, you know, another
Speaker 1: red flag is in episode two there's like a long
Speaker 1: sex scene. I think I said this on a previous episode,
Speaker 1: like listen, like I'm steeped in Game of Thrones. Love
Speaker 1: a good sex position scene, but I feel like if
Speaker 1: you're switching positions, it's too long. Any sex scene where
Speaker 1: there's multiple where you're going through multiple rounds of different techniques,
Speaker 1: but it's probably you know, we could cut this fat.
Speaker 1: And I feel like that to me is if there's
Speaker 1: a if there's a way forward for season two, it's less.
Speaker 1: We don't less stuff. And so maybe now that they've
Speaker 1: established what the show is, what the basic story is,
Speaker 1: this kind of illicit dabbling in illegal technologies and the
Speaker 1: effects they have on Imperial society and people being still
Speaker 1: lured to this stuff for the for the feeling it
Speaker 1: gives people, for you know, the boost it gives the economy.
Speaker 1: That's all kind of fun. But we can jettison a
Speaker 1: lot of hopefully the flashbacks. We're already ten thousand years
Speaker 1: in the past. I felt like the guy flash why
Speaker 1: back twelve years?
Speaker 2: Like ten twelve really important year? You gotta this.
Speaker 5: Was my This was my biggest problem with the show, right,
Speaker 5: Like the whole structure of the show was based on
Speaker 5: the fact that they wanted the Desmond reveal to.
Speaker 6: Rock everyone to our core.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's this classic thing of Hollywood over indexing
Speaker 5: on surprise. If the show had started with young Valua
Speaker 5: and young Tula and showed them coming up together, spend
Speaker 5: three three episodes with them just like you know, Ryan
Speaker 5: did it amazingly somehow on House of the Dragon. He
Speaker 5: pulled it off. It's not easy, but doing the flashbacks
Speaker 5: for episode three we a that an acolyte. It doesn't work.
Speaker 5: You do not end up connected to the characters.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's also especially because like young Volley is
Speaker 4: a great like I love that actress. I thought she
Speaker 4: was a really great actress. And the scenes, yeah, the
Speaker 4: young the young counterparts were great, and the scenes in
Speaker 4: which they're just murking people at like House of the
Speaker 4: Benny Jesuit is it was was was really exciting, like
Speaker 4: it was was really really fun, but like you know,
Speaker 4: it just kind of comes too late. I think the
Speaker 4: way I would have redone this, given that they were
Speaker 4: only given six episodes, which is difficult to cram all
Speaker 4: this in, I would have just trimmed off anything that
Speaker 4: wasn't volume on Tula related. I think any of the
Speaker 4: scenes with like the kids, all the stuff at the bar,
Speaker 4: the rebel bar, the only bars, the only bars, like
Speaker 4: all of that stuff would have just trimmed away and
Speaker 4: just focus it on this hearkening story and it would
Speaker 4: have been much more compelling.
Speaker 5: By the way nobody thought to empty the bar of
Speaker 5: like the ten.
Speaker 2: Was there.
Speaker 6: The rebellion is very sloppy.
Speaker 3: Guys, Why is your spice just upstairs?
Speaker 5: Open?
Speaker 3: Sister MICHAELA, Why are your robes hidden in the same
Speaker 3: place as Karen lock your locker?
Speaker 4: Yes, this is like this is how like my wife
Speaker 4: always knows when I've been in the kitchen because all
Speaker 4: the kitchen cabinets are open and all the cover doors
Speaker 4: are all the covered doors are ajar, And it's just like,
Speaker 4: like Karen has this problem bad, Like he comes back
Speaker 4: from his secret bombing mission is just leaving the.
Speaker 6: Bombs, like out On doesn't put anything else. Someone will,
Speaker 6: Someone will spruce that up.
Speaker 2: Not a problem, Jason.
Speaker 3: You said this, Uh, when I think we talked about
Speaker 3: episode four, Jason Concepcion, You and I were doing that episode,
Speaker 3: and you said something that just stuck in my mind
Speaker 3: about this show and hasn't left.
Speaker 2: It feels like so many of the.
Speaker 3: Characters, perhaps outside of Volley and Tula, are passengers in
Speaker 3: their own story. Things are happening because the play requires
Speaker 3: them to happen so that the next plot point can
Speaker 3: happen next, And the characters are just reacting to things
Speaker 3: happening to them. And you said that, And I can't
Speaker 3: stop thinking about it, and I can't stop seeing it
Speaker 3: even in episode.
Speaker 1: Poor Mark Strong playing Mark.
Speaker 6: Mark.
Speaker 4: Mark Strong needs to listen to that Zuck Rogan interview
Speaker 4: and reclaim the masculine.
Speaker 1: Think about we put.
Speaker 6: A little bit of more land in this.
Speaker 4: He needs to get a gold chain and go bow
Speaker 4: hunting and cook his own meat that hunt.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know what, that's a good it's a
Speaker 1: good point, h because I think the emperor is interesting.
Speaker 1: I liked initially as we talked about it, BOO. I
Speaker 1: liked the idea of exploring this really interesting uh governmental
Speaker 1: system that they have, which kind of requires a weak emperor,
Speaker 1: right because he's really a mediator between these very powerful families.
Speaker 1: He's not supposed to be like he's more of like
Speaker 1: the commissioner of the NBA than he is like an emperor.
Speaker 1: He works for these families. Yeah, and so I thought
Speaker 1: that was I thought that that could be really interesting
Speaker 1: and there were interesting moments to it. But the issue
Speaker 1: is when you only set up like one point of
Speaker 1: conflict between the ri Chesy family. He needs their ships,
Speaker 1: you know, then it doesn't feel complex enough. It just
Speaker 1: feels like this one guy like has something over him,
Speaker 1: and it results in this feeling of this guy is
Speaker 1: just a drip, like I thought he was the emperor.
Speaker 1: He hasn't sure juice whatsoever, and it makes it feel
Speaker 1: less lived in and it I just wish they would
Speaker 1: have picked to me, it's like pick Awayane. If you're
Speaker 1: gonna go with the the imperial politics angle, which I
Speaker 1: think is wonderful and rich, just dive headfirst into that
Speaker 1: and kind of ignore the rest of this stuff. If
Speaker 1: you're going to dive into the effects of nanotechnology and
Speaker 1: the and the development of the Benny Jesre It's control
Speaker 1: over the imperial households in the Landslard, then just kind
Speaker 1: of dive into that and ignore everything else. And I think, Jason,
Speaker 1: Jason G You're right that what needs to happen is
Speaker 1: just pick alaye.
Speaker 4: You know, And this brings I think your point. I
Speaker 4: think your point is exactly right, and it brings up
Speaker 4: two things. Very First of all, I would really need
Speaker 4: to see Adam Silver in a house Corrino uniform because.
Speaker 6: Indistinguishable from what we got on screen. And thing two.
Speaker 4: Like like he's such a weak emperor. It also undercuts
Speaker 4: the whole rebellion storyline because it's like, what are you
Speaker 4: rebelling against?
Speaker 6: Like this horrible, this horrible tyrant who can't even run
Speaker 6: his family? Like what is that? What is that? Like
Speaker 6: what's actually good? What's actually gone?
Speaker 4: You should just like, you know, all these people are
Speaker 4: completely weak, Like it's obviously a weak environment, like you
Speaker 4: don't need to like bomb the house, the House of
Speaker 4: the Emperor. You could find other ways to achieve whatever
Speaker 4: your goals are here. And so it's just it's just
Speaker 4: deeply unsatisfying all that stuff. But the stuff that is,
Speaker 4: the stuff that is the house Hearkening story, the Valley
Speaker 4: of Toula story is very interesting. I think A general
Speaker 4: problem I found too, is that the show is just
Speaker 4: a little too literal, Like it just takes like a
Speaker 4: very like and the best example of this for me
Speaker 4: is the the Fears of the Mind Killer thing. One second,
Speaker 4: everyone in my house is sick, so I'm trying not
Speaker 4: to I'm trying to use my own litiny against fear
Speaker 4: to keep myself well. But like you know, the liney
Speaker 4: the linear against fear is one of the most remarkable
Speaker 4: pieces of writing in all of science fiction. I really
Speaker 4: believe it's it's an amazing prayer that Herbert creates, and
Speaker 4: they take this very interesting thing and make it this
Speaker 4: completely literal artifact where it's like, oh, this is a
Speaker 4: virus that feeds on fear.
Speaker 6: You have to just not be afraid of it. I'm like,
Speaker 6: come like that. It's just so heavy. It's so heavy
Speaker 6: handed and literal.
Speaker 4: It's like, you know, it's the equivalent of when, if
Speaker 4: you know, Luke was being talked to on the on
Speaker 4: the on the Death Star run and Obi Wan says that,
Speaker 4: you know, use the force, Luke, and Luke was like,
Speaker 4: oh right, you know, force equals mass times acceleration. I
Speaker 4: must excrease the speed of my x wing to you know,
Speaker 4: to to drive more. Force just makes this very literal
Speaker 4: argument out of this, you know, kind of transcendent science
Speaker 4: fiction concept.
Speaker 6: I found it just very tedious.
Speaker 5: Luke, listen to your Midi Chlorians.
Speaker 4: Yeah exactly, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, I I'd love to get your opinion
Speaker 1: on this because I think to me, one of the
Speaker 1: most to me, a huge stumbling block for enjoyment of
Speaker 1: the story was I kind of felt like they went
Speaker 1: back ten thousand years, but they didn't make the organizations
Speaker 1: that they are portraying seem as if they were at
Speaker 1: different early evolution their infancy. They're not called the Benny jesureit,
Speaker 1: but that's all like the everything else their role. They're
Speaker 1: already they're already placing people with lands, read families. They're
Speaker 1: already standing to the right side of the Emperor whispering
Speaker 1: in his ear. I think it would have been much
Speaker 1: more interesting to see them like pitching that, getting into
Speaker 1: those you know, families, forging those relationships. How do they
Speaker 1: Is that an issue for y'all? And what do they do?
Speaker 1: Could they you know, this is television. You could just
Speaker 1: ignore it. We could just ignore that that's what they
Speaker 1: did in season one and just start again. But what
Speaker 1: can they do? And is that a problem? Is that?
Speaker 1: Is that similarly an issue for y'all?
Speaker 5: I mean, in general, there's not enough subtlety in what's
Speaker 5: happening right like's they're supposed to be maneuvering everything from
Speaker 5: the shadows. And you do have that great moment in
Speaker 5: episode six where they anerel the computer helps them pick,
Speaker 5: and that's very cool where they're selecting.
Speaker 1: That was really cool.
Speaker 5: Yeah, But once they're like in there, they're just like
Speaker 5: standing there making their motions and like like they're executing
Speaker 5: their plans in full view of like the lancearrat and
Speaker 5: stuff going on. It's it's like it's not very subtle.
Speaker 5: And then you also have this challenge of this giant schism,
Speaker 5: which I think is Jason. What they're trying to do here,
Speaker 5: to show that there's this massive schism, and that's what's
Speaker 5: going to really be the challenge for the Benajeesa. But
Speaker 5: who are we rooting for? Like, are we looking for
Speaker 5: these religious fundamentalists or are we rooting for this psychotic
Speaker 5: murderer value Harken. It's hard for us to have a
Speaker 5: dog in this fight.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's not really a protagonist in this show because
Speaker 4: like there's like, you know, I there shows like Succession
Speaker 4: where there's you know, you don't really like anyone, You're
Speaker 4: not really supposed to like anyone, but like you have
Speaker 4: sort of an affinity for certain characters because of their
Speaker 4: quirks or whatever. But everyone's a bad person. This show
Speaker 4: doesn't can't be it can't work on that level. Like
Speaker 4: it can't work where you know, it's very difficult to
Speaker 4: introduce a cousin Greg like in this in this show
Speaker 4: where you just like which I guess is I guess
Speaker 4: it's yes, Yeah, but it's so I guess I'm root
Speaker 4: for him by default.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I think it is a big problem for me.
Speaker 4: That the show doesn't have any distinguishing culture from being
Speaker 4: set ten thousand years ago. This is a criticism that
Speaker 4: also is leveled against House of the Dragon. Sure, it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: the show is like, you know, so long ago, but
Speaker 4: it's not that different. It's not that long ago in
Speaker 4: House of the Dragon. Thing one thing two, that's a
Speaker 4: medieval show, and so like history like sort of like
Speaker 4: stays static for longer, and think three. Actually they're doing
Speaker 4: interesting things and House to the Dragon with language and
Speaker 4: how it's written, and it does use a slightly more
Speaker 4: archaic syntax at certain times, which gives this kind of
Speaker 4: feeling of it being like differently old timey than Game
Speaker 4: of Thrones Prime.
Speaker 6: There's none of that in this. They're wearing literally the.
Speaker 4: Same outfits that they're wearing in the Villain of movie,
Speaker 4: just like ten thousand, just ten thousand years ago, like
Speaker 4: nothing has moved, and I find that a little problematic.
Speaker 6: There's there's there's reasons.
Speaker 4: That real duneheads could point to about why like it
Speaker 4: because society stays that static, and Herbert has a lot
Speaker 4: to say about the staticness of society and what needs
Speaker 4: to cause great change. I don't really think that's what
Speaker 4: they're playing with here. I think they're just kind of saying,
Speaker 4: we have production design already in the books, We're just
Speaker 4: gonna run it, And I find that disappointing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that speaks to the guys Villanov's
Speaker 3: shotow go for it. Yeah, I mean to the lower question,
Speaker 3: You're absolutely right, Jason, Like, yes, stagnation is a is
Speaker 3: a key theme throughout the Dune books, and it's specifically
Speaker 3: technical stagnation. Because of the jihad and the war against machines,
Speaker 3: a lot of technology kind of grinds to a halt,
Speaker 3: and thus you see the evolution of biology, sisters with capabilities,
Speaker 3: mentats doing computations, etc.
Speaker 6: Etc.
Speaker 3: You know, navigators flying ships instead of computers, flying ships
Speaker 3: through space, that sort of thing. So these these groups
Speaker 3: and their abilities is a direct response to the loss
Speaker 3: of tech because of this great war that almost wiped
Speaker 3: out humanity against machines. But I also agree that, like
Speaker 3: ten thousand years is also a long time, So for
Speaker 3: the status quo to be so similar to what we
Speaker 3: saw in the Ville Nutt films and in the Frank
Speaker 3: books is a little bit disappointing for what it's worth,
Speaker 3: Like the source material they're working off of the Brian
Speaker 3: Herbert books commits the same sin And like this, I
Speaker 3: think This is just like a bit of a prequelitis problem,
Speaker 3: Like a lot of prequels commit the sin of not
Speaker 3: being different enough. But I think this show, like again,
Speaker 3: lived on the under the very tall shadow of the
Speaker 3: ville Neuve films, and they had to make it look
Speaker 3: like the ville Neve movies, you know.
Speaker 5: But also almost everybody seems to have thinking machines, which
Speaker 5: is a little weird, you know, like the jihad is over,
Speaker 5: but everyone secretly has one that seems like a that
Speaker 5: seems like a problem.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And another issue that I kind of had with
Speaker 3: this season was the the fact that again this is
Speaker 3: maybe a six episode problem, but the fact that it's
Speaker 3: asking us to wait for future seasons to get more,
Speaker 3: you know, like a lot of these ideas, like what's
Speaker 3: happening with the Sisterhood will we're introducing a schism over
Speaker 3: six episodes tbd, Like what happens next is up to
Speaker 3: future sea, Like a lot of this first season relies
Speaker 3: on a second season that you know, up until recently,
Speaker 3: we didn't know what's confirmed. Now we know it's confirmed,
Speaker 3: so maybe we will get resolution to some you know,
Speaker 3: the dozen or so plot threads we've just left dangling
Speaker 3: at the end of episode six. But I think for me,
Speaker 3: like that is an unsatisfying way to watch a season
Speaker 3: of television. Like you compare that to something like Severance,
Speaker 3: and you're like, Okay, I could just watch season one
Speaker 3: and walk away and never watch season two and still
Speaker 3: be like, Wow, what a great story I was told.
Speaker 3: I don't think Prophecy achieved that.
Speaker 5: Can we talk about Desmond and like our entire journey
Speaker 5: for Desmond, which is the central mystery, the entire thing,
Speaker 5: and we go from blue eyes at a distance to
Speaker 5: blue eyes slightly closer and a shadowy figure off to
Speaker 5: the side, so we've got a thinking machine and a
Speaker 5: shot like that was no satisfaction.
Speaker 4: Well, and like the the fact that it's just like
Speaker 4: he's he's able to combust people because there's a nanovirus
Speaker 4: in his eye is just like like all right, I
Speaker 4: guess like if that's what you're going for, like you know,
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just like it's a it's a very
Speaker 4: wikipedia answer to a mystery, which is just like, you know,
Speaker 4: it is cool, like I mean, because you know, he's
Speaker 4: a great actor. It's a compelling performance. He's doing freaky
Speaker 4: things with his face, like he leaves right back like
Speaker 4: there's cool bits in there. And then for it's like, oh,
Speaker 4: I've dissected the brain and there's fear and the robots
Speaker 4: came and gave you know, it's like, oh God, like
Speaker 4: you're just just say less, like don't tell me anything,
Speaker 4: like just like keep it a mystery, like don't don't don't.
Speaker 4: Just make it this very literal, very factual. There is
Speaker 4: a nanovirus. It is triggered by his eye. The eye
Speaker 4: was put there by a robot. And now a character
Speaker 4: will say all this on screen. It's that's real tough.
Speaker 4: That's that's really tough to watch.
Speaker 1: I will say, I think that there is a road
Speaker 1: to make all of this feel much more propulsive and
Speaker 1: character driven, if you know, there's just something really interesting
Speaker 1: about it. Or organization that has built itself on the
Speaker 1: idea that they give the best advice in the galaxy.
Speaker 1: They know when people are lying, but secretly it's all
Speaker 1: chat GBT like that is that is giving, Like that's cool,
Speaker 1: that's funny. The idea that that could be found out
Speaker 1: by the Emperor or anybody else that they're trying to
Speaker 1: get on their you know, as technicians of whatever. This uh,
Speaker 1: this sentient AI is telling them to do that. They're
Speaker 1: still getting up to speed with how to how to
Speaker 1: give this advice in the way that they're being advised
Speaker 1: to do. I think all of that is interesting, and
Speaker 1: maybe there's a way that they can drill down on
Speaker 1: that as a as a as a point of conflict,
Speaker 1: you know, because you know, we've built up this illicit
Speaker 1: trade in technology is as one of the main drivers
Speaker 1: of story here. How about plugging that into the character
Speaker 1: and make it something, make it a make it it's
Speaker 1: it is ostensible a secret, but it's one that we
Speaker 1: don't feel as like under any kind of threat. How
Speaker 1: about we put that secret under threats absolutely.
Speaker 5: With Aniro busted by Lilah, Like, is it backed up
Speaker 5: to Azure? Yeah?
Speaker 6: Yeah, they got they got, they gotta, they gotta. They
Speaker 6: got a version on a hard.
Speaker 4: Disk somewhere they could repoot from. Okay, I And I mean,
Speaker 4: so they're gonna go to Aracus like a version of
Speaker 4: this that would be kind of compelling and also work
Speaker 4: for lower reasons. Is that you know, we know that
Speaker 4: the Benny Jazerich go to Aracus at some point in
Speaker 4: time and see the missionary of Productiva, this his you know,
Speaker 4: this this this lisan Algay myth that a messiah will
Speaker 4: come and liberate the freemen. We know the Freemen exist
Speaker 4: at this time already on Oracus. It would be interesting if,
Speaker 4: like Valia's machinations on Oracus in this time and she
Speaker 4: tries to figure out what went on with Desmond actually
Speaker 4: end up seeding that that religion as well, if like
Speaker 4: the entire religion of the Freemen was chat ept in
Speaker 4: some sense, right, They're like, oh, we got to manipulate
Speaker 4: these people. It's like our anrel's like tell them about
Speaker 4: the Messaiah, you know, and like gave them, you know,
Speaker 4: gave them something, you know, gave them something like that.
Speaker 4: That could be that could be fun. I like this
Speaker 4: idea that like there's that this this society is driven
Speaker 4: against technology, but in the background, the technology is actually
Speaker 4: pulling the string still.
Speaker 6: And like it could still be the case, like in
Speaker 6: the universe that we know later that that was true.
Speaker 5: That that actually shocked me, right, like that that idea
Speaker 5: that they had a thinking machine like that. I had
Speaker 5: never considered that for the Bena Jezerit, so I actually
Speaker 5: thought that was one unique and cool idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah, then that is lore correct, right boot.
Speaker 3: That is more accurate even as far as Frank Kurbert's
Speaker 3: books go, because when books, I.
Speaker 5: Don't think I realized that where was that discussed?
Speaker 6: In the end.
Speaker 3: It is a single line in a very dense and
Speaker 3: convoluted book called Heretics of Dune, which is the fifth
Speaker 3: book series. There's a single reference to the Benny Jesuit
Speaker 3: secretly have had computers this whole time, and I've been
Speaker 3: breaking the rules this whole time.
Speaker 1: Oh interesting, I honestly love it. Here's my refined elevator
Speaker 1: pitch for HBO Max doing Prophecy season two.
Speaker 3: Ready, let's hear it.
Speaker 1: The war against the computers has been one, or has it?
Speaker 1: There is a surviving AI, and this group, the Sisterhood,
Speaker 1: believes that they have this genie in a bottle. They're
Speaker 1: pulling on the string. They're completely in control. They're getting
Speaker 1: the information they need so they can build up there
Speaker 1: their organization and take control of the galaxy. But what
Speaker 1: if this AI is, as a survivor of the old times,
Speaker 1: is plotting to rebuild itself, and it's got its twins
Speaker 1: somewhere on Iracus also plotting in conjunction with it. And
Speaker 1: now you've got value having to make a choice one
Speaker 1: building up an organization while two keeping this genie in
Speaker 1: its fucking bottle.
Speaker 6: Mm hmmm, it's good. Colossus the Value Project. I love it.
Speaker 6: That's a banger. Let's go. I really like it. I
Speaker 6: like this idea.
Speaker 4: And again, I would just start with a page that
Speaker 4: says Volia and Tula, what are they doing this season?
Speaker 6: And that should be eighty to ninety percent of what
Speaker 6: they're doing.
Speaker 4: And if it's working against the AI, great, if it's
Speaker 4: like trying to figure out the mystery and racis great.
Speaker 4: But I would I would center just so much of
Speaker 4: the story on that. I don't need to see any
Speaker 4: more Carinos. I don't know what they're doing. I don't it,
Speaker 4: just like none of it matters. None of it mattered,
Speaker 4: like the princess escaping because of the face dancer. All
Speaker 4: that nonsense was completely I can't believe that anyone wrote
Speaker 4: that on a page and like someone agreed to go
Speaker 4: shoot it.
Speaker 6: It's like no one stopped as why does this matter
Speaker 6: at all? It doesn't.
Speaker 4: It didn't matter, and so they could just scrap all
Speaker 4: of that and focus on this much more directed story
Speaker 4: that is about Valia and Tula and the AI that
Speaker 4: they've got to try to figure out is it they
Speaker 4: are they controlling it and using it for their ads
Speaker 4: or is it still actually in control.
Speaker 6: I love that story.
Speaker 5: They should make decisions that make sense, though, right, like
Speaker 5: instead of being in service to the environs a plot,
Speaker 5: Yeah right, saying I'm going to operate from the shadows,
Speaker 5: so I'll go to the center of the universe, the
Speaker 5: most important planet, and that's where I'm hide. It's like, well,
Speaker 5: I don't know about that. That doesn't quite make sense.
Speaker 1: As the as the low Master, m h. What would
Speaker 1: you like to see and what would you say to
Speaker 1: the producers of A of A season two of doing
Speaker 1: Prophecy just as a as a north Star as a
Speaker 1: load star for them?
Speaker 3: Sure? Yeah, Well before I say that, I do want
Speaker 3: to say, as much as I love your Elevator pitch, Jason,
Speaker 3: the books don't treat it that way, and if they
Speaker 3: continue to work off the Brian Herbert source material, unlikely
Speaker 3: that we will get. I actually think andrewl is like
Speaker 3: dead dead. There are no backups on any hard drives
Speaker 3: or any A W S servers out there, and what
Speaker 3: we're going to see now is a dorite of Volia's
Speaker 3: schism within the Sisterhood, which is which is kind of
Speaker 3: where the books go. Where what I want to see
Speaker 3: season two go. I agree with what y'all have said,
Speaker 3: like pick a lane. First of all, Tula and Balia
Speaker 3: are very much your strongest characters. And for what it's worth,
Speaker 3: the showrunner Alison Chapter has said, Tula and Bali are
Speaker 3: the heart of this show. I didn't feel that this season.
Speaker 3: I want to feel that next season. I want I
Speaker 3: want them to be the actual heart of this show,
Speaker 3: to spend the most time with them and their decision
Speaker 3: making and the challenges that they're facing. I think what
Speaker 3: I would like for this show to do in a
Speaker 3: second season is to focus less on lore, which I
Speaker 3: felt like this first season was really mired in. You know,
Speaker 3: we got to explain to Jason to your point about
Speaker 3: everything being literal. You know, we got to explain this,
Speaker 3: We got to show you the origins of that. We
Speaker 3: gotta blah blah blah. You know, let's throw in an
Speaker 3: Easter egg about the Xian's and let's have a face
Speaker 3: dancer in here, which well, you know, don't worry about it.
Speaker 3: That will matter later in a future season, there's a
Speaker 3: lot of sort of I hesitate to call it fan
Speaker 3: service because I know we have this group has thoughts
Speaker 3: on fan service that maybe we don't all agree on,
Speaker 3: but like it felt like very heavy handed fan service
Speaker 3: for people like me, and I didn't need that. What
Speaker 3: I needed was for an excellent story, a well written story,
Speaker 3: and a compelling story, which I didn't think I got
Speaker 3: in season two. I would like for the story to
Speaker 3: focus on themes and themes that matter to the Dune universe,
Speaker 3: to your point, Chase, and like this idea of the
Speaker 3: human relationship with technology. Frank Herbert had a lot to
Speaker 3: say about that. Even Brian Herbert's novels explore that relationship
Speaker 3: a lot. I would like the show to explore that
Speaker 3: more fully and kind of like say it with your chest,
Speaker 3: you know, like, yes, you tap danced around some themes
Speaker 3: in this first season, but you never really commented or
Speaker 3: had anything to say about any of them outside of
Speaker 3: fear being sort of a motivator for a lot of
Speaker 3: the characters. So I guess I would like the second
Speaker 3: season to focus on pick a Lane, focus on Toul
Speaker 3: and Volley as our main characters, and pick some pick
Speaker 3: some thematic points to on luck that are pertinent to
Speaker 3: this universe in the story, and don't worry, like, don't
Speaker 3: explain Lord to me. As a Dune fan, I love Lor.
Speaker 3: I don't need the Lord explained to me, and I
Speaker 3: honestly don't think the general audience also wants Lord.
Speaker 6: Throw or here's it, here's an alternative pitch.
Speaker 4: I got one the the the Rebel Alliance bar got
Speaker 4: blown up, right, and somehow Desmonds survived. What if season
Speaker 4: two is they're opening a new brupub, like a new gastro,
Speaker 4: the Acundas, and it's like Sandwich the Bear, the Bear
Speaker 4: meets Doom Prophecy, and it's just like, you know what
Speaker 4: it takes to open a restaurant in this world where
Speaker 4: you've got to contend with all these different factions.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and where to hide your spice and where to
Speaker 6: hide your Yeah? Exactly, Yeah, Jason, Jason.
Speaker 5: For me, it's almost simpler, Like I would love to
Speaker 5: know by the end of season two, what prophecy, like,
Speaker 5: what is it referring to? Like did that get answered
Speaker 5: to you in any way? Is this Paul?
Speaker 6: Is this the god Emperor? Is this Desmond?
Speaker 5: Like? What are we doing here? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I think that is a to dangle that question that
Speaker 1: won't be answered for ten thousand fictional years at least.
Speaker 1: I think was not necessary because you're setting up an
Speaker 1: expectation of a thing that will surely absolutely not happen
Speaker 1: in this story at all, right, right, And so I
Speaker 1: thought that was, you know, kind of a mistake. Give
Speaker 1: me a prophecy about things that are going to happen
Speaker 1: in this story, you.
Speaker 5: Know, yeah, even if Alia thinks they're happening to this story,
Speaker 5: we're listening here going out. Nope, that's not it.
Speaker 4: I think the move away from calling the show Dune's
Speaker 4: Sisterhood was a mistake. Like, I think it should have
Speaker 4: remained being called sisterhood. Should have been about the schism
Speaker 4: in the sisterhood, should have been about like would have
Speaker 4: focus in on the value tool of the story. Instead,
Speaker 4: they set up this mystery box problem, which, like as
Speaker 4: you say, is solvable to them. So I think I
Speaker 4: would have done it. I would have just stuck with
Speaker 4: what you know, because the sister is in lessly interesting.
Speaker 4: The best part of the show was Volya just going
Speaker 4: super scion like and just that's just like just take
Speaker 4: out your sword, like, yes.
Speaker 6: Tell me tell me more, mother, what are we doing?
Speaker 3: Like it's great, like and became a standout like there
Speaker 3: are the accolades have potential. A lot of the young
Speaker 3: cast has so much potential in the show. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: they are and they aren't given the space to cook
Speaker 3: on screen.
Speaker 5: Can I can I ask you about that, Abu, because
Speaker 5: that's like a this is a big question to me.
Speaker 5: In the Dune books, the voice is never used in
Speaker 5: this way. And to me, this was like a big
Speaker 5: mistake that he made in Dune Part one when Jessica
Speaker 5: instead of kind of distracting the guards and then getting out,
Speaker 5: you know, the order to kill yourself. And then now
Speaker 5: they've taken this like to eleven.
Speaker 4: That it's it's just pure like you have on everyone's
Speaker 4: like you can just make them do anything.
Speaker 6: Yeah, So that's kind of.
Speaker 5: That kind of undoes the core philosophy of what Frank
Speaker 5: was trying to communicate in the first place with the voice, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I mean Frank Herbert like famously said that
Speaker 3: every mother uses the voice on their child, every parent
Speaker 3: uses the voice on their child.
Speaker 6: Right, that is what the is.
Speaker 3: It is the tone of voice where you know, I'm
Speaker 3: in fucking trouble and I need to do what mom
Speaker 3: tells me right now, and that and the Benny Jesuit
Speaker 3: in this fictional universe have honed and crafted that to
Speaker 3: be able to do that on many people, to influence
Speaker 3: their decisions. But yes, it is, you know, as cool
Speaker 3: as it was to see Volliott just kind of like
Speaker 3: walk through a bunch of guards and command them to
Speaker 3: trip over themselves, that it breaks all sense of the
Speaker 3: lore in many ways, which, to be fair, like the
Speaker 3: Brian Herbert books do as well. You know, Laura kind
Speaker 3: of gets thrown out and go when you get get
Speaker 3: to those books, and so yeah, yeah, I mean it does.
Speaker 3: But if they just I think if you can stick
Speaker 3: to some thematic elements that make Frank Herbert's story so interesting,
Speaker 3: then the rest of this falls into place. But I
Speaker 3: think a lot of this show is driven by plot
Speaker 3: rather than its themes or ideas, and so then a
Speaker 3: lot of a lot of what happens has to just
Speaker 3: happen for the plot, which is I need.
Speaker 6: To work to watch.
Speaker 4: I need to work on my dad voice because I
Speaker 4: told my six year old to do something the other
Speaker 4: day and he came he came back with a literal
Speaker 4: and I quote you need to quit your yappin, which was.
Speaker 6: It was so stunned by it took me.
Speaker 5: It took me.
Speaker 6: It was like the reverse voice.
Speaker 1: With a Well, it's been a delight to have you here,
Speaker 1: as as always, where can we find you Jason and.
Speaker 5: H you'll us anywhere you listen to your podcast. Escape
Speaker 5: Hatch is out next week as this episode is dropping.
Speaker 5: We have Rosy Night on the podcast Constantine Jason Constant.
Speaker 1: What a wonderful film.
Speaker 5: Yes, Tilda and Keanu so and many great episodes we
Speaker 5: got coming up. We've got Tinker Tailor, Soldier Spy, The Godfather,
Speaker 5: Too Fast, Too Furious, Wow, Too Fast, to Furious, got
Speaker 5: Father and Too Fast Furious really occupy the same cinematic.
Speaker 6: The god Father the next week.
Speaker 5: Next week, that's happening.
Speaker 2: Okay, well we contained multitudes.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, thanks ad for joining us. That's been it
Speaker 1: for this episode. Bye everybody, Thank you. X ray Vision
Speaker 1: is hosted by Jason Sepcion and Rosie Knight and is
Speaker 1: a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive producers are Joel
Speaker 1: Monique and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer is Abu zafar Our.
Speaker 1: Producers are Common, Laurent Dean Jonathan and Fay wag Our
Speaker 1: theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme songs
Speaker 1: by Aaron Kaufman. Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord,
Speaker 1: Kenny Goodman and Heidi our discord moderator,