WEBVTT - Dune: Prophecy Season 1 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.639 Warning, today's episode could date spoilers for the first season 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:05.640 of Dune Prophecy on HBO, and of course the wider 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:06.840 Dude Cannon be warned. 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:26.200 Hello, Jason Concepcio and I'm a busafar. 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:28.880 And welcome back to x ray Vision, the podcast where 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:32.120 we dive deep, deeper than a sad word. It's your 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:35.040 favorite shows, movies, comics of pop culture coming to you 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:38.320 from our podcast will Ward bring you three episodes a 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:40.000 week every Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. 0:00:40.440 --> 0:00:43.920 In today's episode, we are joined once again by Jason 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.960 and h from Escape Patch formerly known as Dune Pod 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:50.440 to talk about Dune Prophecy season one in its entirety. 0:00:50.600 --> 0:00:52.480 Thank you guys for joining us. Lovely to have you back. 0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:55.400 It's a delight, thank you for having us back to 0:00:55.440 --> 0:00:59.960 talk about this very important piece of pop culture. 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.160 Dive right into it. Can we just take a minute 0:01:02.240 --> 0:01:05.959 and give a shout out to the goat and say 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:09.240 rest in power our Dune King David Lynch. 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:16.840 Yeah, yeah, great, even with even with all the changes, 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:22.319 an absolutely unique vision that I think is stands on 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:26.120 its own as a just an incredible imagining of that 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:29.679 world and some of the things honestly like the navigators 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:32.440 feel like that's what they should look like. 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:34.840 Yeah, I think that's right. 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.640 I think I think he defined parts of the Dune 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.160 universe straight out of his imagining. That made it more 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:45.160 vivid than even what's in the book. Even though the 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:50.280 movie is beloved by bayouts, I'm getting choked up. No, 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:53.760 even though the movie is beloved, it was a failure. 0:01:54.160 --> 0:01:57.960 But still his imprint on the Dune universe is eternal, 0:01:58.760 --> 0:02:01.080 and these just a tremend this visionary director. 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:02.440 So we will miss him. 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:04.120 Yeah, I love you, David. 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:10.239 Well, let's so, guys, season one of Dune Prophecy in 0:02:10.280 --> 0:02:13.480 the books. Yes, we expect to season two. I think 0:02:13.520 --> 0:02:16.519 we should. You know, season two will be coming. Our 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:21.480 thoughts now that this has we have finished six episodes, 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:25.679 not a tremendous amount of runway to get a story 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:30.680 off the ground. Certainly a story is sprawling and interwoven, 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:33.640 as this one is spanning multiple time frames, the past, 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.560 the president in some of the future. Your thoughts on 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:38.720 season one, Well. 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:41.600 So we were you know, we were a little nervous 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:44.560 about the show. We were excited because we want more 0:02:44.639 --> 0:02:46.560 stories and we want to get we want to get 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.000 into the world. But Obviously, we were nervous that it 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:52.440 was not based on some of Frank's works. Jason and 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:55.480 I have not read unlike Abou, you know, we're only 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.640 lightweight Dune fans. We have not read all the Brian 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.960 Herbert books. And then it had a very troubled production, 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:05.160 right with the original showrunner getting fired and then the 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:06.400 guy from Chernobyl coming in. 0:03:06.440 --> 0:03:08.000 We're like, yes, this is gonna be incredible. 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.560 Then he leaves, and so it's we were sort of 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:14.320 a little skeptical. There were some real highlights the production 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.480 design and the costumes and the sets and seeing some 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:19.120 of the stuff was really amazing, and some of the 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:23.000 performances were really really incredible, especially with the younger cast members. 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:26.600 But then there were just also some misses, which I 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:29.360 am sure we are going to get into in this discussion. 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:32.919 Just some of the feeling unanchored, and I think it's 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:35.800 largely related to the way that they laid it out 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.600 time wise, starting in the present, jumping back to the 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:42.280 bast and so that for me was something that made 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:44.760 it a little harder to grab hold up to the series. 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:50.000 Yeah, I think to build on that, my take is 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.640 is maybe a little briefer which is just it's not 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:53.440 that good. 0:03:53.840 --> 0:03:56.119 Like the show is just not that good. 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:01.600 Like it's got some huge head. We have a podcast 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:05.240 that was formly called Dune, And like my repeated feeling 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:07.400 when watching this is like if I am bored by 0:04:07.440 --> 0:04:09.120 this show, who is this show for? 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:10.440 Whom is this show? 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:15.920 Because like, you know, it's just it wasn't there There 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:19.160 are bones there, there are great performances, great actors, great 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:21.919 production design, high production values. 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:23.680 The actual writing of. 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:26.760 The show is just very clunky and not that good. 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:31.040 There's they've kind of got Denny Villeneuve's Dune, like all 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:35.360 of the grandiosity of that property stuffed into kind of 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:39.200 a like you know, see Tier Star Trek the Next 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:42.560 Generation episode and like that's and that's just kind of 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:45.680 that's just kind of a bummer. So I hope in 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:48.080 season two they just kind of figure out how. 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:49.280 To write better. I guess. 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:51.040 I mean, I'm like, you know, how to make it 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:55.159 just a tighter show with less expository theater and like 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:57.719 more focused on one story and and just have it 0:04:57.760 --> 0:04:58.480 be a bit tighter. 0:04:58.880 --> 0:04:59.880 Aaboo your thoughts. 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:04.159 You know, I would echo that sentiment as well. I 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:06.640 also wasn't the biggest fan of the show. It didn't 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:08.599 land with me, and as a Dune super fan, I 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:12.240 found a number of things disappointing. I will say there 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.200 was a lot of Dune lore in the show, which 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:19.520 was nice, that was fun. But I think to Jason's point, 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:24.560 the storytelling, the writing is where it fell short for me, 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:30.800 and six episodes just wasn't enough time to tell the stories, 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:34.400 the multiple stories, multiple plot threads, multiple character arcs that 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:37.400 they were trying to cram into six hour long episodes. 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:40.240 Episode six I think was actually even ninety minutes and 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:46.520 still not enough time to get the characters and story 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:51.920 moving towards satisfying not just conclusions, but towards satisfying moments 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:54.159 as well. You know, parts felt rushed, A lot of 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:56.800 stuff was assumed to happen off screen, a lot of 0:05:56.880 --> 0:06:00.360 character development happening off screen. It was disappointed, and for 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:02.240 what it's worth, I think, like living in the shadow 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:04.800 of a Danny villenef masterpiece is a very. 0:06:04.520 --> 0:06:06.120 Difficult place to live in. 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:11.719 Yes, and so to be given the directive that here's 0:06:11.760 --> 0:06:14.640 the master work upon which you are making the show, 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.960 make it just as good that is that is a 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:21.880 tall order. And so I do feel for the fine 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.480 folks at HBO who were given that order and did 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:26.560 their best to live up to it and in some 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:31.320 ways did in other ways I think fell quite tragically short. 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.400 My take very similar to all of yours. I think 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:40.120 it was I watched episode one and thought, okay, a 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:43.200 little bit of a mess, but there's good. I feel 0:06:43.240 --> 0:06:45.880 like there's something in there, there's bones in there that 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:52.719 can emerge. And then really it didn't start turning back 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:58.559 towards that those glimmers of optimism until maybe episode five 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:03.200 and parts of episode six. It felt, you know, another 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:05.960 red flag is in episode two there's like a long 0:07:06.240 --> 0:07:09.040 sex scene. I think I said this on a previous episode, 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:13.000 like listen, like I'm steeped in Game of Thrones. Love 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.120 a good sex position scene, but I feel like if 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:19.680 you're switching positions, it's too long. Any sex scene where 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:24.480 there's multiple where you're going through multiple rounds of different techniques, 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:29.080 but it's probably you know, we could cut this fat. 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:33.640 And I feel like that to me is if there's 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:37.680 a if there's a way forward for season two, it's less. 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:41.080 We don't less stuff. And so maybe now that they've 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:47.040 established what the show is, what the basic story is, 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:53.600 this kind of illicit dabbling in illegal technologies and the 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:58.040 effects they have on Imperial society and people being still 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:02.000 lured to this stuff for the for the feeling it 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:05.600 gives people, for you know, the boost it gives the economy. 0:08:05.640 --> 0:08:10.040 That's all kind of fun. But we can jettison a 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:14.480 lot of hopefully the flashbacks. We're already ten thousand years 0:08:14.480 --> 0:08:19.120 in the past. I felt like the guy flash why 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.160 back twelve years? 0:08:23.360 --> 0:08:29.160 Like ten twelve really important year? You gotta this. 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:31.160 Was my This was my biggest problem with the show, right, 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:33.840 Like the whole structure of the show was based on 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:36.079 the fact that they wanted the Desmond reveal to. 0:08:36.160 --> 0:08:37.560 Rock everyone to our core. 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:41.400 Yeah, and it's this classic thing of Hollywood over indexing 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.680 on surprise. If the show had started with young Valua 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:48.520 and young Tula and showed them coming up together, spend 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:52.360 three three episodes with them just like you know, Ryan 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:55.600 did it amazingly somehow on House of the Dragon. He 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:58.840 pulled it off. It's not easy, but doing the flashbacks 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:02.079 for episode three we a that an acolyte. It doesn't work. 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:04.320 You do not end up connected to the characters. 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.480 Yeah, and it's also especially because like young Volley is 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:09.840 a great like I love that actress. I thought she 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:13.560 was a really great actress. And the scenes, yeah, the 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.120 young the young counterparts were great, and the scenes in 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:19.080 which they're just murking people at like House of the 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:22.360 Benny Jesuit is it was was was really exciting, like 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:25.280 it was was really really fun, but like you know, 0:09:25.320 --> 0:09:26.840 it just kind of comes too late. I think the 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:28.960 way I would have redone this, given that they were 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.600 only given six episodes, which is difficult to cram all 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:35.360 this in, I would have just trimmed off anything that 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:38.040 wasn't volume on Tula related. I think any of the 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:42.760 scenes with like the kids, all the stuff at the bar, 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:49.320 the rebel bar, the only bars, the only bars, like 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:52.640 all of that stuff would have just trimmed away and 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:55.720 just focus it on this hearkening story and it would 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:57.040 have been much more compelling. 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:00.240 By the way nobody thought to empty the bar of 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:01.280 like the ten. 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:05.760 Was there. 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:07.360 The rebellion is very sloppy. 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:10.520 Guys, Why is your spice just upstairs? 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:11.120 Open? 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.480 Sister MICHAELA, Why are your robes hidden in the same 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:24.040 place as Karen lock your locker? 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:29.439 Yes, this is like this is how like my wife 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:31.880 always knows when I've been in the kitchen because all 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:34.920 the kitchen cabinets are open and all the cover doors 0:10:34.920 --> 0:10:38.040 are all the covered doors are ajar, And it's just like, 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:40.840 like Karen has this problem bad, Like he comes back 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.680 from his secret bombing mission is just leaving the. 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:48.000 Bombs, like out On doesn't put anything else. Someone will, 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:49.240 Someone will spruce that up. 0:10:49.280 --> 0:11:09.560 Not a problem, Jason. 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.120 You said this, Uh, when I think we talked about 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.840 episode four, Jason Concepcion, You and I were doing that episode, 0:11:15.880 --> 0:11:17.640 and you said something that just stuck in my mind 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:19.000 about this show and hasn't left. 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:20.880 It feels like so many of the. 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:24.080 Characters, perhaps outside of Volley and Tula, are passengers in 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:27.800 their own story. Things are happening because the play requires 0:11:27.840 --> 0:11:30.120 them to happen so that the next plot point can 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:34.319 happen next, And the characters are just reacting to things 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:38.360 happening to them. And you said that, And I can't 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:40.480 stop thinking about it, and I can't stop seeing it 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:42.760 even in episode. 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.199 Poor Mark Strong playing Mark. 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:49.600 Mark. 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:52.320 Mark Strong needs to listen to that Zuck Rogan interview 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:54.160 and reclaim the masculine. 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:58.920 Think about we put. 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:00.520 A little bit of more land in this. 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:04.560 He needs to get a gold chain and go bow 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:06.559 hunting and cook his own meat that hunt. 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:08.800 I mean, you know what, that's a good it's a 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.400 good point, h because I think the emperor is interesting. 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:15.040 I liked initially as we talked about it, BOO. I 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:21.680 liked the idea of exploring this really interesting uh governmental 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:25.760 system that they have, which kind of requires a weak emperor, 0:12:25.920 --> 0:12:29.840 right because he's really a mediator between these very powerful families. 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.280 He's not supposed to be like he's more of like 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:35.400 the commissioner of the NBA than he is like an emperor. 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:39.520 He works for these families. Yeah, and so I thought 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.600 that was I thought that that could be really interesting 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.760 and there were interesting moments to it. But the issue 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.320 is when you only set up like one point of 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.680 conflict between the ri Chesy family. He needs their ships, 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:55.040 you know, then it doesn't feel complex enough. It just 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.880 feels like this one guy like has something over him, 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:01.640 and it results in this feeling of this guy is 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:03.960 just a drip, like I thought he was the emperor. 0:13:04.000 --> 0:13:07.400 He hasn't sure juice whatsoever, and it makes it feel 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:12.200 less lived in and it I just wish they would 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.760 have picked to me, it's like pick Awayane. If you're 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:18.400 gonna go with the the imperial politics angle, which I 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:21.520 think is wonderful and rich, just dive headfirst into that 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.000 and kind of ignore the rest of this stuff. If 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:26.640 you're going to dive into the effects of nanotechnology and 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:30.359 the and the development of the Benny Jesre It's control 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:33.440 over the imperial households in the Landslard, then just kind 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:36.720 of dive into that and ignore everything else. And I think, Jason, 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.320 Jason G You're right that what needs to happen is 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:43.360 just pick alaye. 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:45.400 You know, And this brings I think your point. I 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.240 think your point is exactly right, and it brings up 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.400 two things. Very First of all, I would really need 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.440 to see Adam Silver in a house Corrino uniform because. 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:59.640 Indistinguishable from what we got on screen. And thing two. 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:03.440 Like like he's such a weak emperor. It also undercuts 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:05.560 the whole rebellion storyline because it's like, what are you 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:06.480 rebelling against? 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.800 Like this horrible, this horrible tyrant who can't even run 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.560 his family? Like what is that? What is that? Like 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:14.160 what's actually good? What's actually gone? 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.560 You should just like, you know, all these people are 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.200 completely weak, Like it's obviously a weak environment, like you 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:23.640 don't need to like bomb the house, the House of 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:26.120 the Emperor. You could find other ways to achieve whatever 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:28.840 your goals are here. And so it's just it's just 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:31.640 deeply unsatisfying all that stuff. But the stuff that is, 0:14:32.080 --> 0:14:35.000 the stuff that is the house Hearkening story, the Valley 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:38.160 of Toula story is very interesting. I think A general 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:39.880 problem I found too, is that the show is just 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:42.440 a little too literal, Like it just takes like a 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.120 very like and the best example of this for me 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:48.520 is the the Fears of the Mind Killer thing. One second, 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:52.160 everyone in my house is sick, so I'm trying not 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.400 to I'm trying to use my own litiny against fear 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:57.360 to keep myself well. But like you know, the liney 0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:01.360 the linear against fear is one of the most remarkable 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.840 pieces of writing in all of science fiction. I really 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:08.400 believe it's it's an amazing prayer that Herbert creates, and 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.760 they take this very interesting thing and make it this 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.880 completely literal artifact where it's like, oh, this is a 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:16.280 virus that feeds on fear. 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:18.240 You have to just not be afraid of it. I'm like, 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.440 come like that. It's just so heavy. It's so heavy 0:15:21.520 --> 0:15:22.320 handed and literal. 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.400 It's like, you know, it's the equivalent of when, if 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:27.480 you know, Luke was being talked to on the on 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:30.600 the on the Death Star run and Obi Wan says that, 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:32.360 you know, use the force, Luke, and Luke was like, 0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:35.800 oh right, you know, force equals mass times acceleration. I 0:15:35.920 --> 0:15:38.680 must excrease the speed of my x wing to you know, 0:15:38.880 --> 0:15:41.760 to to drive more. Force just makes this very literal 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:45.680 argument out of this, you know, kind of transcendent science 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:46.600 fiction concept. 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.440 I found it just very tedious. 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:51.240 Luke, listen to your Midi Chlorians. 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:54.120 Yeah exactly, yeah, exactly. 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:58.160 So, I mean, I I'd love to get your opinion 0:15:58.160 --> 0:15:59.600 on this because I think to me, one of the 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:05.320 most to me, a huge stumbling block for enjoyment of 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:11.240 the story was I kind of felt like they went 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:17.600 back ten thousand years, but they didn't make the organizations 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:21.480 that they are portraying seem as if they were at 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:27.040 different early evolution their infancy. They're not called the Benny jesureit, 0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:30.680 but that's all like the everything else their role. They're 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:34.160 already they're already placing people with lands, read families. They're 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.480 already standing to the right side of the Emperor whispering 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.760 in his ear. I think it would have been much 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:45.160 more interesting to see them like pitching that, getting into 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:51.320 those you know, families, forging those relationships. How do they 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:56.000 Is that an issue for y'all? And what do they do? 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.080 Could they you know, this is television. You could just 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:00.120 ignore it. We could just ignore that that's what they 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.320 did in season one and just start again. But what 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:04.480 can they do? And is that a problem? Is that? 0:17:04.640 --> 0:17:06.320 Is that similarly an issue for y'all? 0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.600 I mean, in general, there's not enough subtlety in what's 0:17:09.640 --> 0:17:13.160 happening right like's they're supposed to be maneuvering everything from 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:15.200 the shadows. And you do have that great moment in 0:17:15.560 --> 0:17:18.600 episode six where they anerel the computer helps them pick, 0:17:18.960 --> 0:17:20.600 and that's very cool where they're selecting. 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:21.840 That was really cool. 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:25.520 Yeah, But once they're like in there, they're just like 0:17:25.560 --> 0:17:28.960 standing there making their motions and like like they're executing 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:31.760 their plans in full view of like the lancearrat and 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:33.800 stuff going on. It's it's like it's not very subtle. 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.640 And then you also have this challenge of this giant schism, 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:40.000 which I think is Jason. What they're trying to do here, 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.040 to show that there's this massive schism, and that's what's 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.679 going to really be the challenge for the Benajeesa. But 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:47.200 who are we rooting for? Like, are we looking for 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:51.680 these religious fundamentalists or are we rooting for this psychotic 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.719 murderer value Harken. It's hard for us to have a 0:17:55.800 --> 0:17:56.560 dog in this fight. 0:17:57.000 --> 0:18:00.920 Yeah, there's not really a protagonist in this show because 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:04.879 like there's like, you know, I there shows like Succession 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.120 where there's you know, you don't really like anyone, You're 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.280 not really supposed to like anyone, but like you have 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:11.520 sort of an affinity for certain characters because of their 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.440 quirks or whatever. But everyone's a bad person. This show 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:16.960 doesn't can't be it can't work on that level. Like 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:19.359 it can't work where you know, it's very difficult to 0:18:19.440 --> 0:18:22.000 introduce a cousin Greg like in this in this show 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:24.120 where you just like which I guess is I guess 0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:30.440 it's yes, Yeah, but it's so I guess I'm root 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:31.560 for him by default. 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:34.800 But yeah, I think it is a big problem for me. 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:39.880 That the show doesn't have any distinguishing culture from being 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:43.439 set ten thousand years ago. This is a criticism that 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:47.080 also is leveled against House of the Dragon. Sure, it's like, oh, 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.040 the show is like, you know, so long ago, but 0:18:49.119 --> 0:18:51.040 it's not that different. It's not that long ago in 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:53.520 House of the Dragon. Thing one thing two, that's a 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:56.119 medieval show, and so like history like sort of like 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:59.640 stays static for longer, and think three. Actually they're doing 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.000 interesting things and House to the Dragon with language and 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:03.960 how it's written, and it does use a slightly more 0:19:04.080 --> 0:19:06.919 archaic syntax at certain times, which gives this kind of 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:10.359 feeling of it being like differently old timey than Game 0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:11.280 of Thrones Prime. 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:14.160 There's none of that in this. They're wearing literally the. 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.840 Same outfits that they're wearing in the Villain of movie, 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.760 just like ten thousand, just ten thousand years ago, like 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:24.160 nothing has moved, and I find that a little problematic. 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:26.320 There's there's there's reasons. 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:30.399 That real duneheads could point to about why like it 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:33.720 because society stays that static, and Herbert has a lot 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.200 to say about the staticness of society and what needs 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.760 to cause great change. I don't really think that's what 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:42.080 they're playing with here. I think they're just kind of saying, 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:44.800 we have production design already in the books, We're just 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:46.520 gonna run it, And I find that disappointing. 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.800 Yeah, and I think that speaks to the guys Villanov's 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:53.400 shotow go for it. Yeah, I mean to the lower question, 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:57.200 You're absolutely right, Jason, Like, yes, stagnation is a is 0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.680 a key theme throughout the Dune books, and it's specifically 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:05.320 technical stagnation. Because of the jihad and the war against machines, 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:08.320 a lot of technology kind of grinds to a halt, 0:20:08.480 --> 0:20:13.680 and thus you see the evolution of biology, sisters with capabilities, 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:16.440 mentats doing computations, etc. 0:20:16.640 --> 0:20:16.840 Etc. 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:21.160 You know, navigators flying ships instead of computers, flying ships 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:25.120 through space, that sort of thing. So these these groups 0:20:25.200 --> 0:20:27.680 and their abilities is a direct response to the loss 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:30.560 of tech because of this great war that almost wiped 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:35.040 out humanity against machines. But I also agree that, like 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:37.399 ten thousand years is also a long time, So for 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:40.240 the status quo to be so similar to what we 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:42.000 saw in the Ville Nutt films and in the Frank 0:20:42.080 --> 0:20:45.800 books is a little bit disappointing for what it's worth, 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:47.760 Like the source material they're working off of the Brian 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:50.840 Herbert books commits the same sin And like this, I 0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:53.000 think This is just like a bit of a prequelitis problem, 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:55.879 Like a lot of prequels commit the sin of not 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:59.120 being different enough. But I think this show, like again, 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:01.879 lived on the under the very tall shadow of the 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:06.080 ville Neuve films, and they had to make it look 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:07.399 like the ville Neve movies, you know. 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:11.320 But also almost everybody seems to have thinking machines, which 0:21:11.359 --> 0:21:14.560 is a little weird, you know, like the jihad is over, 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:17.440 but everyone secretly has one that seems like a that 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:18.359 seems like a problem. 0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:20.520 Yeah, And another issue that I kind of had with 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:24.119 this season was the the fact that again this is 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:26.480 maybe a six episode problem, but the fact that it's 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:30.000 asking us to wait for future seasons to get more, 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:32.880 you know, like a lot of these ideas, like what's 0:21:32.880 --> 0:21:35.679 happening with the Sisterhood will we're introducing a schism over 0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:41.760 six episodes tbd, Like what happens next is up to 0:21:41.880 --> 0:21:44.640 future sea, Like a lot of this first season relies 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:48.040 on a second season that you know, up until recently, 0:21:48.119 --> 0:21:50.240