Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: All right here we good politics.
Speaker 1: This is a special day because it gets to be
Speaker 1: really like this is an example of when I'm taking
Speaker 1: a break, like this is my own personal source of
Speaker 1: like mental health. Like I know it's corny when people
Speaker 1: say go touch grass, but like this is how I
Speaker 1: touch grass. Is my man, my guest out here, man,
Speaker 1: please introduce yourself and then I'm gonna brag about you.
Speaker 2: But you just go ahead introduce yourself.
Speaker 3: Sure, my na, it's my gosh, I got my mango sometimes.
Speaker 3: I come founded a magazine called Mental Floss when I
Speaker 3: was in college and that for a long time. And
Speaker 3: uh and now I've got a show called Part Time
Speaker 3: Genius and a little podcast network called Kaleidoscope that's mostly
Speaker 3: fo focused on like science content.
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, well you should be cited for misinformation on
Speaker 1: this idea of like a small podcast network like you, Lion.
Speaker 2: Is not small.
Speaker 1: It's incredible, you know the types of shows that are
Speaker 1: on there. So first, from a fanboy perspective, this show
Speaker 1: is going to be kind of like a grab bag.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to really like I hate the term
Speaker 1: pick your brain because I just feel like, yeah, that's
Speaker 1: called consulting, Like pick my brain. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you've got that before. People like, hey, man, can I
Speaker 1: just like buy you buy your coffee? Man, pick your brain.
Speaker 1: You're like, so for that, you just want You're just
Speaker 1: gonna pay for my twenty years of experience with a
Speaker 1: cup of coffee.
Speaker 2: Out of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I I never I never mind because
Speaker 3: like a lot of people gave me a lot of
Speaker 3: advice along the way, and a lot of people like
Speaker 3: really really helped us and rooted for us and and
Speaker 3: and that was huge, and so like, I never mind
Speaker 3: having a conversation with someone, never mind having like a
Speaker 3: coffee with someone. But but the big thing for me
Speaker 3: is when they make it a lot of work for
Speaker 3: you and they don't like and so like this one person,
Speaker 3: uh was like, hey, would you mind like listening to
Speaker 3: a show of mine and and like giving me notes?
Speaker 3: And I was like, already, that's that's a little bit
Speaker 3: about work. But you know it was like a friend
Speaker 3: of a friend. I was like, sure, sure I could
Speaker 3: do that, but just like pick out pick out the
Speaker 3: episode for me, and they wouldn't. And they just got
Speaker 3: being like, oh, you know, I've got this massive catalog,
Speaker 3: so so you you find one that you like. It
Speaker 3: was like, if you're going to ask for someone's elf,
Speaker 3: just make it as easy as possible, you.
Speaker 1: Know, Yes, for sure. Yeah, I think that's that you're
Speaker 1: picking up going down here. I'm just like, it's not
Speaker 1: so much like you know, I I My my business
Speaker 1: model is generally just be a good hang, ye know,
Speaker 1: and like, uh, you know, and I'm not gonna like, yeah,
Speaker 1: just be a good hang. Like I'm not gonna like
Speaker 1: if we're going out for coffee, like I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: invoice you or nor am I gonna be like you know, uh,
Speaker 1: we can't talk about that right now, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like, nah, like you know you're gonna give
Speaker 1: me game. You're gonna give me a game, you know.
Speaker 1: I I you know, obviously I'm from a I come
Speaker 1: from black people, you know what I mean. And that's
Speaker 1: part of our cultures that you give each other game,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But yeah, but anyway, Uh,
Speaker 1: this show is really just like I I I am
Speaker 1: essentially just gonna go all over the place because I
Speaker 1: I find what you do in the way that you've
Speaker 1: showed up publicly more attuned to what's going on inside
Speaker 1: my head rather than like what's happened what I'm putting out?
Speaker 2: So yeah, so so I can't tell you then.
Speaker 1: I feel like, especially with like this the subject matter
Speaker 1: that we cover on the show, like I try to
Speaker 1: cover very serious things with a type of sort of
Speaker 1: levity that kind of like holds some of this stuff
Speaker 1: loosely in the sense that like as existential, especially as
Speaker 1: the season we're in now, we are also really just
Speaker 1: we're spinning on a rock, like and not even an
Speaker 1: important rock, you know, like it's just you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, like this, like it's it's also it's also
Speaker 1: not that serious, you know what I'm saying. Like, so
Speaker 1: I try to like put some somewhat of a sense
Speaker 1: of scale to what we're going through.
Speaker 2: And and the way that I personally do that.
Speaker 1: Is is I often look to science, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, and just remind myself of like what a
Speaker 1: binary star is. You're saying two black holes that got
Speaker 1: connected on accident, like like what, like you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like, you know, there's dust clouds that are
Speaker 1: not measured in distance, they're measured in time, Like this,
Speaker 1: how tall is this dust cloud? It's five light years tall,
Speaker 1: Like wait, that's it's so tall that you don't use that,
Speaker 1: you don't use distance, like you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 1: so I try to remind myself of stuff like that
Speaker 1: that like.
Speaker 2: Puts things in perspective for me.
Speaker 1: You know, obviously I say that while being in a
Speaker 1: house with plumbing and running water and electricity. But it's anyway,
Speaker 1: I gotta start with mental flaws because I can't tell
Speaker 1: you how many times I've been I've paid for the
Speaker 1: Wi Fi on a flight just so I could go
Speaker 1: to mental flaws.
Speaker 3: Like just that's incredible.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I just want like it's the mode like
Speaker 2: mind blowing.
Speaker 1: And also it's this this, this is why I'm so
Speaker 1: excited to do this show. I was like, dude, is
Speaker 1: he really? Is he really down to do my show?
Speaker 1: Like I know, like we have a lot of don't
Speaker 1: shows on the network. You know what I'm saying that,
Speaker 1: like have bigger audiences. But I'm like, I'm like, like,
Speaker 1: you don't know what this man means to me, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like so so, so to start
Speaker 1: with mental flaws, it's like the combination of this is
Speaker 1: mind blowing information that everybody needs to know.
Speaker 2: And also this.
Speaker 1: Is mind numbing like brainlessness that like also doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: Like how those two things.
Speaker 1: I just don't like, Like, so I need to know
Speaker 1: a little bit of history of mental flaws.
Speaker 3: Like I love that so much. So so a couple
Speaker 3: of things. One, uh, one thing that's really funny is that,
Speaker 3: like the summer that my friend Will will appearson who
Speaker 3: you probably know from from of course yeah yeah, uh,
Speaker 3: we talked about starting metal Flass and uh, and I
Speaker 3: was like, should I do this or should I? Like,
Speaker 3: I have a friend who's like a uh who's really
Speaker 3: good at freestyling, another friend who's a drummer who like
Speaker 3: had taken lessons from Max Roach like like and and
Speaker 3: and we're like no, like should I be in this
Speaker 3: hip hop band or should Oh?
Speaker 2: I know I liked you. He's like, I was going
Speaker 2: to be a rapper. I was going to be a rapper.
Speaker 2: I don't if you guys know this. I don't know.
Speaker 3: Rap skilled, but I could play the keys and like
Speaker 3: put beans together and so but but but anyway, so
Speaker 3: the idea behind metal Class was, uh, you know, Will
Speaker 3: and I were in college and and we were freshmen
Speaker 3: and there were Everyone used to come back from their
Speaker 3: their classes and and they would talk about like the
Speaker 3: the craziest ship they learned, right, like everything from like
Speaker 3: you know, the fact that the bronx who had a
Speaker 3: pigmy in it for for years, you know, like the
Speaker 3: fact that like you know, like anything from like string
Speaker 3: theory to economic theory to whatever. And it was it
Speaker 3: was like but but it was really just the most
Speaker 3: fascinating stuff and the stuff you want to hear. And
Speaker 3: and part of what we realized was like, you know,
Speaker 3: are like my dad was out of work, We're taking
Speaker 3: all these loans to go to college, like I was
Speaker 3: gonna have to get a job to like you know
Speaker 3: that felt like probably pre law. So something that was
Speaker 3: like you know, destined to to be very specific. And
Speaker 3: and what Will and I were saying was like after
Speaker 3: you graduate, like what like where do you learn? Where
Speaker 3: do you have time to learn? Like like you're so
Speaker 3: focused on this one thing and and and even getting
Speaker 3: to that, right, like you have to major in one thing,
Speaker 3: you have to specifically like like go deep on something,
Speaker 3: but like where do you get the time to like
Speaker 3: engage with the incredible richness of stories and knowledge and
Speaker 3: stuff that's out there, and he and I had this idea.
Speaker 3: We're like, well, what if what if it just felt
Speaker 3: like sitting What if you could get a magazine in
Speaker 3: the mail and you could like skim it and just
Speaker 3: reading it felt like sitting with your favorite professors at
Speaker 3: a bar where they're just telling you stories, right, They're
Speaker 3: telling you the best things, the most interesting things, and
Speaker 3: it's not like comprehensive, but it gets you to be
Speaker 3: engaged in a topic, right, Like it gets you to
Speaker 3: like to want to know more about a certain subject.
Speaker 3: And so that's kind of what we did. And we
Speaker 3: were like naive and cocky and and like you know,
Speaker 3: twenty years old, and we put out a campus edition,
Speaker 3: and we we googled a book called how to Make
Speaker 3: a Magazine, written by Mister Magazine, and we followed it
Speaker 3: page by page.
Speaker 4: And.
Speaker 3: You know, like like part of brilliant, part of it
Speaker 3: really was so so like we put out a campus edition,
Speaker 3: we thought like, let's try to make this spend our
Speaker 3: scene year just trying to get it to Barnes and
Speaker 3: Noble and Borders and stuff. And we figured out how
Speaker 3: and we put it out on stands right before you know, uh,
Speaker 3: that summer of two thousand and one, and then nine
Speaker 3: to eleven happened, and we were like, you know this,
Speaker 3: you know, this is kind of end end of our dream.
Speaker 3: We're gonna have to like go to law school or whatever,
Speaker 3: like figure out something else. And what we found was that,
Speaker 3: you know, when the world's in turmoil, like people need
Speaker 3: a break, like and and it's not that like you
Speaker 3: shouldn't be paying attention to things, but sometimes you just
Speaker 3: do need a break and and and this magazine was
Speaker 3: a break for people, and it made them feel good
Speaker 3: about learning in a way and and and so like
Speaker 3: that that was really joyous and and and we you know,
Speaker 3: in the beginning it was like my mom, Will's mom
Speaker 3: and two hundred of our mom's friends.
Speaker 1: Who subscribed to the magazine and my first album, see baby,
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 5: Yeah completely and uh but but but you know, we
Speaker 5: we made sure to reach out to every single person
Speaker 5: who uh who reached out to us, and so like
Speaker 5: there was this old, older woman from a retirement home
Speaker 5: and uh and and.
Speaker 3: She said, uh, she was like, when are you coming
Speaker 3: out with a large print edition? And we were like,
Speaker 3: we can really get like, you know, we we're like
Speaker 3: working two part time jobs and like spending our evenings
Speaker 3: like trying to make this magazine and put together and whatever,
Speaker 3: and like like there's no way we're gonna get a
Speaker 3: And then Will wrote her back and he said, Hey,
Speaker 3: we're not going to be able to put out a
Speaker 3: large print edition, but we are going to send you
Speaker 3: word documents of every article and you can print them
Speaker 3: out at whatever size you want and and you can, uh,
Speaker 3: you can still read and enjoy the magazine. And she
Speaker 3: sent out like thirty subscriptions to friends for Christmas, and
Speaker 3: it was like, we had no money for like marketing.
Speaker 3: We barely had enough money to like to get the
Speaker 3: magazines out the door, and and it only grew through
Speaker 3: word of mouth. So that was this kind of a.
Speaker 1: See that's the testament of just yes, that's the testament
Speaker 1: of just being like you just being DoPT like you're
Speaker 1: just being cool folks. It's like, oh, I mean you
Speaker 1: could have had an artist like you. I'll send you
Speaker 1: the word docs like that again. Like that to me,
Speaker 1: that lines up with like, yeah, that's my business model.
Speaker 1: Like how many times people have hit me like in
Speaker 1: my other world with music where they're just yeah, hey, man,
Speaker 1: like I don't you know, I can't afford a forty
Speaker 1: dollars hoodie, all right, I'll just I'll just send you
Speaker 1: one like it's fine. I'm saying like, yeah, okay, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, and then you know, and then
Speaker 1: it turns out like like I can't say. I can't
Speaker 1: tell you how many times it's been like you know,
Speaker 1: you you were kind to somebody that like, you know,
Speaker 1: went to pick up coffee, and then it turns out
Speaker 1: like whether the head of curation at Spotify now you know, yeah,
Speaker 1: like dude, you were like and I'm like, dude, man, yeah, like.
Speaker 2: And I didn't. It wasn't like I was planning that.
Speaker 2: It was just like people kind.
Speaker 3: Of yeah, you aren't scouting who you're kidding.
Speaker 2: I was like, that's going to be immogual.
Speaker 1: But even in that story, man, you said so many
Speaker 1: things that like truly like resonate with me because it's
Speaker 1: like I I kind of discovered in college. I went
Speaker 1: for illustration and in their cultural studies, like and like,
Speaker 1: I think my love for hip hop was part of
Speaker 1: what made me be so interested in cultures, right, and
Speaker 1: just like what's going on around the world? Where does
Speaker 1: these sounds come where these people come, Like how do
Speaker 1: y'all dance? Like I get So that kind of opened
Speaker 1: my mind to a lot more just being connected to
Speaker 1: the world. And my father was a black panther, so
Speaker 1: I was already kind of like plugged in with like
Speaker 1: social movements and stuff, you know, just finding a lot
Speaker 1: of finding figuring out that I found a lot of
Speaker 1: things interesting, you know, And really what I enjoyed about
Speaker 1: college was that, like I joined man, I joined the
Speaker 1: like the Filipino Club, I joined the like Southeast Indian Club,
Speaker 1: Like you know what I'm saying, Like because I was
Speaker 1: just like, like I find it interesting.
Speaker 3: I want to dive in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Like I didn't, you know, I in, you know, as
Speaker 1: an art major, like I had to. You know, I
Speaker 1: had my art classes, but I was taking stuff on earthquakes.
Speaker 1: I took an Asian American women class. Like you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like, I'm just like I just found
Speaker 1: it all interesting.
Speaker 2: I had.
Speaker 1: I had a one of my polycide professors was like
Speaker 1: who actually like wrote to the art department to get
Speaker 1: me to change majors, And I was like, you're tripping, bro,
Speaker 1: in a winter World. I'm like, I'm an artist, you know,
Speaker 1: here doing a politics podcast. But like in that class,
Speaker 1: he was like, look, man, I use a real crass dude,
Speaker 1: but like I really stuck with me. He was like, man, really,
Speaker 1: really you go to college to just to sound smart
Speaker 1: at cocktail parties, you know, like, and I was like,
Speaker 1: well what do you mean by that? He goes, you
Speaker 1: know a little bit about everything, you know what I'm saying. Like,
Speaker 1: so when you're at the company mixer, you know, and
Speaker 1: you're chatting up the head of HR you know about
Speaker 1: the three laws of thermodynamics and like it's an accounting job,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But you're like, you know,
Speaker 1: we're talking about like the Magna carta being, you know,
Speaker 1: the rough draft of what the constitutions becomes.
Speaker 2: And it's like it's I know, it's twelve ninety five.
Speaker 1: Like like just knowing that stuff, you're interesting, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So now when you go to apply,
Speaker 1: it's like your resumes are the same anybody, and they'd
Speaker 1: rather train you on their system, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So like, yeah, that you have a resonate better than
Speaker 1: this person, It's like, Nah, you're you're cool to be
Speaker 1: around because you're interesting, you have a lot of things,
Speaker 1: so like it already felt like that's the way like
Speaker 1: I already functioned. And I was like, man, but to
Speaker 1: your point, like I knew I didn't want to go
Speaker 1: to grad school. I was like, I don't have time
Speaker 1: to burn a thousand page book, you know, and like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm already a slow reader. Like that's something that's been
Speaker 1: true for me. I just I just read slow, you know,
Speaker 1: But like.
Speaker 3: No, me too, yeah, you know, And and I mean
Speaker 3: I was. I was an anthropology major, like cultural anthropology,
Speaker 3: and part of the reason was, like there are two reasons. One,
Speaker 3: I just found it fascinating to like dip into like
Speaker 3: any culture around the world and see like how they lived,
Speaker 3: how they looked at the environment, how they looked at religion,
Speaker 3: how they looked at what, you know, like food, like
Speaker 3: any that that whole thing and that comparative sense of
Speaker 3: the world was really fascinating to me. But the other
Speaker 3: thing I really loved about it was that the writing.
Speaker 3: And I'm a slow reader. In fact, I I have
Speaker 3: poor comprehension, so it takes me like slow time to
Speaker 3: like like make sure I understand something or whatever. But
Speaker 3: but so the thing I loved about anthropological writing and
Speaker 3: these ethnographies was that they weren't self serious, they weren't pedantic,
Speaker 3: they weren't like talking down to you. They were just
Speaker 3: like and and there was this thing called participant observation,
Speaker 3: and so like they would go try to live with
Speaker 3: a you know, a group in the Kalahari or a
Speaker 3: group and wherever, and and they'd make fun of the
Speaker 3: fact that they pitched the tent in the wrong place
Speaker 3: and it flooded and everyone laughed at them. Where they
Speaker 3: you know, like like all these things, like it was
Speaker 3: you're allowed to make mistakes, you're allowed to laugh at yourself,
Speaker 3: but you're also like allowed to be fascinated. And to
Speaker 3: me that was like very much the tone of like
Speaker 3: everyone's welcome, you know, everyone's welcome to hear this stuff,
Speaker 3: and and like and it's not going to be hard
Speaker 3: to read. And then and and that that was like
Speaker 3: very much like part of part of the philosophy.
Speaker 2: I loved it.
Speaker 6: Man.
Speaker 1: I remember to that point too, Like in the art
Speaker 1: history courses you have to take, I was always fascinated
Speaker 1: with like ancient civilizations, probably for the same reasons you're
Speaker 1: saying or where it's like if you you know, drop
Speaker 1: yourself into you know the bottom of the Amazon and
Speaker 1: like people who this is their normal lives, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: But like.
Speaker 1: I remember, they made a point in like one of
Speaker 1: my like sub Saharan African classes. They're like you go
Speaker 1: to a museum and what's on the wall framed behind glass,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Boxes is a fork? A bowl.
Speaker 1: Blanket? Like like can you imagine that? Like like it's
Speaker 1: a fork, you know what I'm saying. So like if
Speaker 1: you are from this culture like I be, I always
Speaker 1: like pictured myself like yeah, post apocalypse, you know, time
Speaker 1: machine going to a museum in you know, some off
Speaker 1: center place and there's just like an iPhone charger just
Speaker 1: like hanging on the wall, as like oh this is
Speaker 1: this was their early twenty first century art, Like.
Speaker 2: That's a bowl? Like what it? You have a bowl
Speaker 2: on the wall?
Speaker 1: You know? So I think that that like like you said,
Speaker 1: that lack of self seriousness, Like I love it because
Speaker 1: it's like you I feel like you need that to
Speaker 1: stay healthy. Like again, like I remind myself whenever I
Speaker 1: have to dive into so much polic I'm like, we're
Speaker 1: on a rock spinning in space.
Speaker 2: Like it just we're on a rock spinning in space.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm a fast forward super far so like
Speaker 1: you and will you guys y'all invented podcasts whatever, like
Speaker 1: just early adapters figured it out, knew what to do.
Speaker 1: What was the like light bulb like and let me
Speaker 1: let me, let me give a little context of this.
Speaker 1: In my career leading up to this, the record label
Speaker 1: I was on for ten years was it was called
Speaker 1: Humble Beast, who started by like one of my closest friends,
Speaker 1: but like in two thousand and seven, he had the
Speaker 1: wherewithal to know that within like ten years, you're not
Speaker 1: going to be able to sell an album. Like so
Speaker 1: he was like, we'll just give you give us your
Speaker 1: email address, and we'll send you a download link. This
Speaker 1: was like, we didn't we didn't conceive of streaming, but
Speaker 1: we can. But he conceived of like digital music and
Speaker 1: not being able to like they're gonna get your album.
Speaker 1: So here's what we need. We need your contact info.
Speaker 1: So like like this is two thousand and eight, like
Speaker 1: him being like, yeah, like send us your email address,
Speaker 1: and then he was like, once we get an e newsletter.
Speaker 2: That's how we'll tour.
Speaker 1: So we'll use we'll do it by like location, and
Speaker 1: we'll tour just based on yeah. Like and I remember
Speaker 1: him bringing that to like different distributors and then being
Speaker 1: like are you You're out of your mind? And we
Speaker 1: were like, all right, well let's just do it and
Speaker 1: yeah for a good you know, five to seven years
Speaker 1: before Spotify became a thing, Like that's how we's how
Speaker 1: we ate, that's how we toured. Was like, like, who's
Speaker 1: the promoter you're using. I was like, we don't have one.
Speaker 1: We have five hundred emails in this city.
Speaker 2: We just email them. Yeah, I'm said, and yeah, you.
Speaker 1: Know so so I I I now look at him
Speaker 1: like what how did you.
Speaker 2: How did you see that coming? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: So like I feel like you guys did that with podcasts,
Speaker 1: Like how did you?
Speaker 3: I think I think that you know, from from the
Speaker 3: Metal Plus days, we were always outsiders, right, like you
Speaker 3: know we were we were making a magazine from like Birmingham,
Speaker 3: Alabama instead of like, uh, you know, instead of New York,
Speaker 3: and we didn't have like the money or the trappings
Speaker 3: all of us, and we didn't have advertising for for
Speaker 3: for the magazine, right, and so like, uh, when you
Speaker 3: are outsiders, like you're always trying to like for me,
Speaker 3: Like like the realization was that like the only thing
Speaker 3: that mattered was the connection to the audience, right, like,
Speaker 3: and you need an audience that really cared for you
Speaker 3: and and really cared about you, and so like we
Speaker 3: worked extra hard to like make captions really funny, right,
Speaker 3: Like there were footnotes that were funny. They were like
Speaker 3: things that like like things that no one else cared
Speaker 3: about or looked past. Like yeah, we we like worked
Speaker 3: extra hard because like if you're caring about that thing,
Speaker 3: you're definitely caring about the article, right and the way
Speaker 3: the article was shaped and the facts and all that
Speaker 3: stuff and and so like when we realized we couldn't
Speaker 3: make money off advertising, we figured out other ways and
Speaker 3: so we'd like spent all this time making like funny
Speaker 3: uh headlines, right, but the headlines were ephemeral, the only
Speaker 3: last for so long, and so like so we took
Speaker 3: those and we put them on T shirts and people
Speaker 3: started buying those, right like like we we we we
Speaker 3: you know we we we we realized, oh you know
Speaker 3: we we At the time, there were all these men's
Speaker 3: magazines like lad magazines and like they all had like
Speaker 3: swimsuit isshoes and so like we decided to do our
Speaker 3: own swimsuit issue with like Albert Einstein and Eleanor Roosevelt
Speaker 3: and Louis Armstrong and like like real historical photos. It
Speaker 3: was the worst selling issue in our history. But it
Speaker 3: was really all this press, yeah, and and and then
Speaker 3: and then we turned that into like a book deal
Speaker 3: right like and so like everything was like, how do
Speaker 3: we do something else out of this? How do we
Speaker 3: delight our audience? And how do we like preserve that
Speaker 3: feeling that we're making something special for them continuously?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: And so I was we were at Mental Flaws for
Speaker 3: like seventeen years, I think sixteen or seventeen years. And
Speaker 3: by that time we'd done everything from like we'd done
Speaker 3: a TV show We've done with that geo it was
Speaker 3: called Brain Surgery Live. We did like thirteen books, all
Speaker 3: these like the business had grown in various ways, like
Speaker 3: there's a massive website like all these things, you know,
Speaker 3: And my whole thing was like, how do you still
Speaker 3: make this feel small? How do you still make this
Speaker 3: feel like you're talking directly to the reader, right like
Speaker 3: and along the way we sold a magazine. The guy
Speaker 3: who we loved was a crazy billionaire who decided to
Speaker 3: give all his properties to a forest in England, and
Speaker 3: so like we were owned by a nonprofit that was
Speaker 3: a forest in England, that owned a British company that
Speaker 3: owned an American company, and so like it what it
Speaker 3: was a structure that made zero sense. And when we
Speaker 3: kept proposing things, we were like, hey, we can do
Speaker 3: this book in print, we can do this TV show,
Speaker 3: we can do this, and they're like no, no, no,
Speaker 3: we just like, you know, they weren't interested in anything.
Speaker 3: And so when we looked at non compete, the only
Speaker 3: thing we hadn't done was audio, and How Stuff Works
Speaker 3: reached out to us and they were like, hey, do
Speaker 3: you want to help us make more ambitious things in audio?
Speaker 3: And the truth was, initially I was like, no, I think.
Speaker 3: I think I just want to like figure out something
Speaker 3: small that's like meaningful that I get my hands dirty,
Speaker 3: you know. And then the more we thought about it,
Speaker 3: it was like, oh, the fact that you're in someone's ear,
Speaker 3: the fact that you like the fact that people who
Speaker 3: listened to How Stuff Works were listening to eleven hours
Speaker 3: of content every week from this you know, this network,
Speaker 3: you know the fact that people really wanted this and
Speaker 3: there was opportunity to like, it just felt like there
Speaker 3: was something that could be done in the space that
Speaker 3: hadn't been thought of yet, and lots of things done
Speaker 3: in the space, lots of voices to bring in, lots
Speaker 3: of you know, like all of that. There was so
Speaker 3: much possibility and so much fun. And also like the
Speaker 3: people at the Stuff Network, who at the time were
Speaker 3: like like some of the La crew, you know, like
Speaker 3: Robert Evans coming in, Like it just felt like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is a great time to be here, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, man, I feel like I missed. I missed
Speaker 1: a golden age, Like I came in a little late.
Speaker 1: But like that I always say, like that network is
Speaker 1: like yeah, like how I actually became like a guy
Speaker 1: that likes pods, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, you know, there was an era when it.
Speaker 1: Was like dealersten podcasts like that was like a thing
Speaker 1: saying like like you know, are you in a punk
Speaker 1: music Like it was like your your shove genre, you
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, And that for me, like that
Speaker 1: network was like, dude, I think I like podcasts. And
Speaker 1: I think it's because of what you said to where
Speaker 1: you're just like I still like learning, you know. And
Speaker 1: I think specifically that one was because you know, whether
Speaker 1: it was the music, the like justice work I was
Speaker 1: a part of, like a lot of the stuff that
Speaker 1: I do, it's just so intense, it's just so psychologically emotionally,
Speaker 1: like it's it's taxing, you know what I'm saying, Like
Speaker 1: you know, get especially like right now, like talking about
Speaker 1: politics every week, I try.
Speaker 2: To I try to quarantine it to two and a half.
Speaker 1: Days out of my week to be like, Okay, you
Speaker 1: only get two and a half days, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. But I'm also a citizen of the country,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So like this affects not
Speaker 1: podcaster prop, this affects Jason, like the.
Speaker 2: And resident and and it's hard.
Speaker 3: I mean, like on one hand, it it then diagrams
Speaker 3: everything that you're interested in so beautifully right, like like
Speaker 3: like you know, the way you can put the same
Speaker 3: spirit between behind like getting a message out through a
Speaker 3: song that same like our artistry like that same like
Speaker 3: you know, the same the social justice work, the fact
Speaker 3: you know, the teacher prop episodes, right like like all
Speaker 3: these things like yeah, like they work beautifully together in
Speaker 3: this space. And and honestly, like within this network, you
Speaker 3: have a voice that is distinct and necessary and and
Speaker 3: and it's like you know, like like I told you before,
Speaker 3: I was like, you know, I listened to the stuff
Speaker 3: you've done with Robert. I'd like, you know, been aware
Speaker 3: of stuff and and and I binge stuff. And then
Speaker 3: I started sending it to my son, right and I
Speaker 3: was like, oh my my, you know, my my son
Speaker 3: loves hip hop, he loves drill, he loves like like
Speaker 3: he loves jazz, loves music and and and he's trying
Speaker 3: to figure out how to be in this world. And
Speaker 3: he knows that like the voices that are coming through
Speaker 3: to him on TikTok aren't the right voices, you know,
Speaker 3: like like and and and so like how do you
Speaker 3: counter that? How do you find like so like what
Speaker 3: you do is so important and also like of course
Speaker 3: you've got to protect yourself, right, like like because you're
Speaker 3: basically doing therapy for for a world of blisters.
Speaker 1: Woh boy boy, yes man, thank you, thank you for that.
Speaker 2: You describe like how I kind of want to be
Speaker 2: in the world. So I definitely appreciate that.
Speaker 1: And and I think that that brings us to what
Speaker 1: you guys are doing now with Kaleidoscope and with the
Speaker 1: you're counting down the twenty five what wait, tell me
Speaker 1: say it, say it correctly, I'm gonna say it wrong.
Speaker 3: It was the twenty five most important UH science ideas
Speaker 3: of the last twenty five years, but twenty five ridiculous things.
Speaker 2: For the most hour, it was.
Speaker 6: Exactly what I needed, like exactly what I needed. I
Speaker 6: don't even want to spoil any of it, Like I
Speaker 6: like I purposefully wrote it was like don't tell at
Speaker 6: all what any of these people to actually just go
Speaker 6: listen because it's like it's it's yes, just they're ridiculous.
Speaker 6: I I think you you've, you've kind of like already
Speaker 6: hit on the head, hit the head on the nail.
Speaker 6: Like what I wanted to get from the show, which
Speaker 6: was justice, the the living in the tension of the
Speaker 6: the seriousness and the levity that like you whether it's
Speaker 6: and from that level and from the meta level, because
Speaker 6: like you know, you're you're, you're. That's like this might
Speaker 6: sound more competitive than I mean it to be, but
Speaker 6: it's I'm not trying to be competitive. I'm just like, Bro,
Speaker 6: you're like like the way like you're speaking about starting
Speaker 6: multiple multimillion dollar businesses and just like, oh yeah, we
Speaker 6: were just you know, we're just kids and trying to
Speaker 6: figure it out and we don't have any money for this,
Speaker 6: Like bro, wait time out me Like come on, fam
Speaker 6: these I like, I am like actively considering, Like I
Speaker 6: started a coffee company and I'm like actively like figuring
Speaker 6: out how to wind it down because I'm like I
Speaker 6: don't know how to do this and I don't even
Speaker 6: I'm not enjoying that, like you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 6: So I'm like starting a business it at all at
Speaker 6: all is hard, you know what I'm saying, and not fun,
Speaker 6: but then starting one and then it works and then
Speaker 6: selling it, Like are you hitting me?
Speaker 2: Like you're alien? Like this is not easy.
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean the truth is I got. I
Speaker 3: got really lucky, and I got lucky in a lot
Speaker 3: of ways, right Like I got. My dad had worked
Speaker 3: at a company where he had worked there for twenty
Speaker 3: nine years, and he was about to the reason he'd
Speaker 3: stayed there that long partially was there was an agreement
Speaker 3: where where like if you get to thirty years there,
Speaker 3: you get your full pension, you know, like all these things,
Speaker 3: like you know, and and on his twenty ninth year,
Speaker 3: they went through and cut everyone of his cohort, like
Speaker 3: and and and so like, you know, my dad had
Speaker 3: put all his life. You could have taken better jobs,
Speaker 3: et cetera, right like at this company. And like I
Speaker 3: was just going to college. My dad lost a job.
Speaker 3: And I was like, I don't trust corporations, you know,
Speaker 3: like like I don't. I don't, like there's no one
Speaker 3: there who's looking out for me. My dad, like you know,
Speaker 3: did the incredible work there. He was like, you know,
Speaker 3: like a very very respected scientist actually, and and and
Speaker 3: like and at the end of it, like he you know,
Speaker 3: he was just dismissed. And also I mean this is
Speaker 3: completely separate, but like I think part of the reason
Speaker 3: that I ended up starting mental class is because because
Speaker 3: my parents are immigrants, right, like like like living between
Speaker 3: two worlds. And and when you're brown in like a
Speaker 3: like a mostly it was diverse, but like a mostly
Speaker 3: white suburb or whatever, there's like a feeling of less
Speaker 3: than that that like sometimes you know, you can inhabit
Speaker 3: and and like for me, like this living in two
Speaker 3: worlds where I'd go to India and be a certain
Speaker 3: person come back to the States, like you know, when
Speaker 3: when I get to when we'd save up enough to
Speaker 3: visit my grandparents or whatever. Like there were things that
Speaker 3: were just intimidating about the world and and so like
Speaker 3: something like art and art history was intimidating. There was
Speaker 3: like a barrier of entry to like understanding it. Something
Speaker 3: like you know the way you walk into like certain
Speaker 3: rooms and can't talk about certain conversations, right, like conversational
Speaker 3: topics like that is intimidating. And college can like ameliorate
Speaker 3: some of that, and like reading certainly, like and can
Speaker 3: can fix a lot of that. But like, but for me,
Speaker 3: that's part of what the magazine was too. It was
Speaker 3: a leveler, right, Like it was this way that I
Speaker 3: could satisfy like curiosity and whatever. And part of the
Speaker 3: reason we'd started the magazine too was like in my
Speaker 3: freshman year, I had applied to all these publishing internships
Speaker 3: and I didn't get a response from many of them,
Speaker 3: and I realized, oh, I'm an outsider. I'm going to
Speaker 3: have to do it myself, right, Like, if I'm going
Speaker 3: to want my name in print, there's no other way
Speaker 3: than like, and so for me, it's like, yeah, I
Speaker 3: got I got really lucky. I got I got I
Speaker 3: got Will as a partner who's the most incredible, like smartest,
Speaker 3: like really savvy, really thoughtful person like that that I
Speaker 3: could have had, and and like and he had connections
Speaker 3: and he like pulled me into those and he had
Speaker 3: like you know, like his his his dad had been
Speaker 3: in the States a long time for generations, right, and
Speaker 3: so like they had the people in publishing, they knew
Speaker 3: people in right, And so like I'm lucky that way.
Speaker 3: Like colleges, whatever college you go to, they're filled with
Speaker 3: professors who want to help you, right, and so like
Speaker 3: we took advantage of that, right, Like, like like I
Speaker 3: said in the beginning, right, the fact that I'm willing
Speaker 3: to give conversations, have conversations with anyone, right is, and
Speaker 3: it's not always easy, right, Sometimes sometimes people have to
Speaker 3: bug me like two or three times, right, Like it's
Speaker 3: it's not like but but but it's but I will
Speaker 3: make time for people because so many people made time
Speaker 3: for me. And so like I just I just don't
Speaker 3: think I think that I got lucky. I don't think
Speaker 3: that business is I think that if you're doing something
Speaker 3: authentic and you're doing something that connects with people, and
Speaker 3: you're constantly trying to figure out like how do I
Speaker 3: make this better for you? How do I make this
Speaker 3: a service for someone? Like how how am I like
Speaker 3: entertaining or pleasing someone?
Speaker 4: Like if you're constantly thinking through that, like, it isn't
Speaker 4: that hard.
Speaker 2: I love it. I heard an interview. I'm trying to
Speaker 2: remember who the guy was.
Speaker 1: It's this is gonna make the quote suck because I
Speaker 1: can't remember exactly what it was. But he was asked
Speaker 1: like a similar question about like succeeding in business and
Speaker 1: like what do you like what's some of the key takeaways?
Speaker 1: And he was like, well, be born a white male
Speaker 1: and a rich fan Like he finally like like just
Speaker 1: he just cut through it and was just like acknowledging
Speaker 1: in the funniest way the reality of just like look, dude,
Speaker 1: I'm privileged, Like I am not unaware.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: And he's like, of course you got it, like the
Speaker 1: I don't. Of Course you gotta work hard. Of course
Speaker 1: you got a hustle. Of Course you got to put
Speaker 1: your ten thousand hours in. Of course you do right,
Speaker 1: but like guys, it's like, can we just acknowledge like
Speaker 1: you said, like Yo, it's you were, like Yo, I
Speaker 1: loved youself, Like bro, I got lucky man like Will
Speaker 1: Will's Daddy's connected.
Speaker 2: I don't know what to tell you, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying, Like I don't, like I don't.
Speaker 1: I just happened to be at school with him, like
Speaker 1: you know, and I think that like that for someone
Speaker 1: who's like every day grinding, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: like white knuckling, trying their best. I first, this obviously,
Speaker 1: like the shadow of you becomes cynical. But then the
Speaker 1: other side is like, oh that's great. That that means
Speaker 1: that there's nothing wrong with you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what I'm.
Speaker 1: Saying, Like that you have what it takes. You are
Speaker 1: being authentic, You are put in in the hours. You're
Speaker 1: making something that you can stand by. You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying that, Like I remember I had another guy
Speaker 1: told me like you just have to get this. White
Speaker 1: boy played a kind of like some like kind of
Speaker 1: like blue eyed soul type music, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: He had my elbot voice, but he used to say, man,
Speaker 1: you just got to make something that's just like just
Speaker 1: fuck off good where you're just like it's so good,
Speaker 1: you just fuck off, man, this is amazing.
Speaker 2: And he's like, that's that's what you do.
Speaker 1: You make something just that Like no, they can't get
Speaker 1: did nowhere except from here, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 3: I mean, and I and I think that's true. But
Speaker 3: also everyone starts somewhere right like and yeah, totally and
Speaker 3: so like you know the first time you I mean,
Speaker 3: I remember reading Miles Davis's autobiography when I was in
Speaker 3: like ninth grade or something and and being like, oh, well,
Speaker 3: the first sentence is amazing. It's like the best it's
Speaker 3: like the best feeling I remember. I remember having with
Speaker 3: my clothes on is listening just like like listen Dizzy
Speaker 3: and then and it's Charlie Parker like playing but but
Speaker 3: but but like you see the products where he's like, oh,
Speaker 3: this guy who's a high schooler when I'm in eighth
Speaker 3: grade like plays these licks on the piano and they're
Speaker 3: unbelievable and and like and that's something to aspire to, right,
Speaker 3: and like you're constantly like aspiring, you're constantly making something better,
Speaker 3: like you know, like like the first the first vaccine
Speaker 3: was riddled with so many errors that the printer back
Speaker 3: to us to like to fix all the like, like
Speaker 3: like they were like, no, we.
Speaker 1: Can't prink guys, Like I know it's my job just
Speaker 1: to press print, but like I can't read.
Speaker 3: Like we didn't put bylines on the like on the
Speaker 3: table of contents for people, and and like that was
Speaker 3: a huge And finally we got magazine printed. It had
Speaker 3: a UPC code, but it didn't have the like it
Speaker 3: didn't have the price on it. And and we're so
Speaker 3: proud that we had an UPC code on this this
Speaker 3: magazine because we were like seniors in college and and
Speaker 3: and so so we had to like at Will's parents
Speaker 3: dining room table, like everyone was stickering like prices and
Speaker 3: then mailing the magazine not you know, I mean like
Speaker 3: it's you're gonna made a lot of mistakes, you know,
Speaker 3: like yeah, and and and and everything that feels like
Speaker 3: it's going to be a success isn't. Like you know,
Speaker 3: you think you're just waiting for like the big thing
Speaker 3: to hit, and the big thing is always like really great,
Speaker 3: but it's never it's never like that big a thing,
Speaker 3: you know, it's always like a little bit better a
Speaker 3: little bit and so it's always like this constant building
Speaker 3: and and you know, to Will's parents point, I mean
Speaker 3: like like his his dad grew up very like I think,
Speaker 3: lower middle class and in Alabama and like and he
Speaker 3: worked really hard and he made connections and stuff. But
Speaker 3: but you know where my dad didn't know anyone from college.
Speaker 3: Will's dad did it right, like you know, like but
Speaker 3: but but but there there's a line from I think
Speaker 3: it was like Warren Buffett's partner Charlie Monger said something like,
Speaker 3: what's the fastest way to like make a hundred million dollars?
Speaker 3: Start with ten million dollars, you know, And and that's exactly.
Speaker 3: It's like it's a lot easier when you get some
Speaker 3: of these like yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, baked in
Speaker 3: advantages and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1: Man, that's super real. So I think, lastly, uh, I'm
Speaker 1: going to get to like the politics part. So you
Speaker 1: have this this amazing outlet that I know, like I again,
Speaker 1: like I go to this when I like need a break,
Speaker 1: you know, but like I don't like I'm not like
Speaker 1: I can't do the candy kind of like four twenty,
Speaker 1: you know, not for twenty Beyonce, I don't want to
Speaker 1: make fun of Miles, but like like ninety eight Beyonce,
Speaker 1: like I I I don't find solace in that, like
Speaker 1: because I'm like, like messiness stresses me out, like you'll say,
Speaker 1: like my TMG, Like I get more stress with that.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, And it's bad, but I
Speaker 2: know it means nothing.
Speaker 1: But I'm just like I hate this, but I go
Speaker 1: to like stuff that like what you guys do. But
Speaker 1: I think that there's a reality again that you still
Speaker 1: live in this world. You brought up the fact that
Speaker 1: like you know, your parents are immigrants, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, and and just the reality of like this
Speaker 1: is the world we live in, man, like the the
Speaker 1: obvious direction. You know, I'm assuming nothing about your politics
Speaker 1: except for your knowledge of history, which would be like
Speaker 1: it's hard to not see what's happening here, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So my question is, like, in what
Speaker 1: ways are you sort of taking care of yourself, like
Speaker 1: moving in the world, and just in the ways that
Speaker 1: you're already making the world better by the by the
Speaker 1: content you're making, but in ways that like could be
Speaker 1: things that our listeners could hear us like this how
Speaker 1: we move in through this times right now?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know it's it's it's different for for
Speaker 3: every person, every family. Uh. And and I think that
Speaker 3: I I have a younger kid who's non binary and
Speaker 3: and to have and one of the places that we
Speaker 3: felt was safest is New York City, right like you
Speaker 3: feel you feel it's kind of been enclave for like
Speaker 3: people who are different, and I mean it attracts all
Speaker 3: sorts of weirdos and artists, etcetera, right like and and
Speaker 3: uh and to get notes from the pediatrics division at
Speaker 3: n y U that say they know they're no longer
Speaker 3: providing services to to UH for for UH kids who
Speaker 3: who are dealing with issues of gender like it was
Speaker 3: was really sort of heartrending. And and you see, I
Speaker 3: live in Brooklyn. The amount of homelessness around me, like
Speaker 3: it's just all the unhouse population here is like it's
Speaker 3: just like it is. You see it all around you,
Speaker 3: and you see the devastation around you and the ways
Speaker 3: that community hasn't been working, you know, like or hasn't
Speaker 3: shown up and and and I think that's hard to see.
Speaker 3: And then on the other side of it, right like
Speaker 3: you see so many people pulling together in really beautiful
Speaker 3: and incredible ways and and so like I think, I
Speaker 3: think to me, like community gardens really are like like
Speaker 3: a place of you know, where you see older people
Speaker 3: and younger people mixing. Like Uh, I play. I play
Speaker 3: a lot of tennis, and I play with anyone who
Speaker 3: wants to play, and and uh and to be just
Speaker 3: like finding common ground and then having conversations from there.
Speaker 3: And I play with people on different parts of the spectrum,
Speaker 3: you know, like in terms of politically and and trying
Speaker 3: to like remind people like who who we are and
Speaker 3: why we're here and and and I belong to a
Speaker 3: co op in in in park Slope. And part of
Speaker 3: my favorite thing about it is that it reminds me
Speaker 3: how lucky, you know, like when when you're when you're
Speaker 3: receiving groceries and you're like putting and putting them, like
Speaker 3: moving the boxes and like separating things or whatever, like
Speaker 3: it's hard work. And I go in like it's almost
Speaker 3: like a tourist, right like for for three hours, like
Speaker 3: like ever every few weeks, and and and it's a
Speaker 3: reminder of like, oh, these bodegas don't get stalked by themselves,
Speaker 3: right like the the like we don't use like a
Speaker 3: lot of the fresh delivery stuff, like because because you're
Speaker 3: so removed from from like the actual work and the
Speaker 3: people and and and and to me, it's like the
Speaker 3: other thing that's really I love about the co op
Speaker 3: And my favorite thing is like there's a there's a
Speaker 3: shelter near us, and part of the co op is
Speaker 3: like taking the food over, but also like participating and
Speaker 3: like giving coffee to people in the mornings, and like
Speaker 3: and queuing people up for forgetting meals and just remembering
Speaker 3: that all these people are human and and and that
Speaker 3: they want meals. They're they're like struggling to like be there.
Speaker 3: And it's just like there's so much awfulness in the
Speaker 3: world and and to realize at the end of the
Speaker 3: day that there are all these people who are just
Speaker 3: like trying to make their days work, their lives work,
Speaker 3: you know, and really good people. It's just like it's
Speaker 3: it's hard not to feel better about your day when
Speaker 3: when you get to hand a couple of coffee to someone,
Speaker 3: and and it's hard not to feel grateful for all
Speaker 3: the things you do have when when you see those.
Speaker 2: Things, I have nothing to add to that. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much.
Speaker 3: That, so it's don't don't be ridiculous. I mean it's
Speaker 3: it's it's really really lovely to be here chatting with you.
Speaker 3: I if you're ever coming through New York, please please
Speaker 3: hit me up honestly, like I mean that, and and uh,
Speaker 3: and I really love your show and and I'm going
Speaker 3: to keep evangelizing it.
Speaker 2: So thank you so much.
Speaker 1: So last thing, like you know with us, like plug
Speaker 1: all the spots, plug, where can they find you? Where
Speaker 1: can they find the shows? They're right what you're working on,
Speaker 1: and then we'll let you go from here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, Will and I do a show called
Speaker 3: Part Time Genius. It's basically like an excuse for us
Speaker 3: to hang out the same way we used to hang
Speaker 3: out in our dorm rooms in college. And so so
Speaker 3: it's still really fun to do on Kaleidoscope. I think
Speaker 3: your audience might like there's a show called Wild Chocolate,
Speaker 3: which is basically like in Indiana Jones of Chocolate and
Speaker 3: and it's uh, it's you know, science, but it's really
Speaker 3: like an adventure story and so like I think they
Speaker 3: might dig that.
Speaker 2: That's dope. Yeah, so please.
Speaker 1: Just go to the net, go to Kaleidoscope, Go to
Speaker 1: the network. There's so many dope shows there. The at again,
Speaker 1: the the twenty five most Important Science.
Speaker 3: Years.
Speaker 1: I'm begging y'all. I'm begging you to go listen to
Speaker 1: that series. Man, Thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 3: This is really delightful.
Speaker 7: Thanks all right, all right, all.
Speaker 1: Right, now, don't you hit stop on this pod. You
Speaker 1: better listen to these credits. I need you to finish
Speaker 1: this thing so I can get the download numbers. Okay,
Speaker 1: so don't stop it yet, but listen. This was recorded
Speaker 1: in East Lost Boyle Heights by your boy Propaganda. Tap
Speaker 1: in with me at prop hip hop dot com. If
Speaker 1: you're in the Coldbrew coffee we got Terraform Coldbrew. You
Speaker 1: can go there dot com and use promo code hood
Speaker 1: get twenty percent off.
Speaker 2: Get yourself some coffee.
Speaker 1: This was mixed, edited, and mastered by your boy Matt
Speaker 1: Alsowski killing the beat Softly. Check out his website Matdowsowski
Speaker 1: dot com.
Speaker 2: I'm a speller for you because I know m A T.
Speaker 1: T O S O W s Ki dot com. Matdowsowski
Speaker 1: dot com. He got more music and stuff like that
Speaker 1: on there, so gonna check out. The heat Politics is
Speaker 1: a member of cool Zone Media. Executive produced by Sophie Lichterman,
Speaker 1: part of the iHeartMedia podcast network. Your theme music and
Speaker 1: scoring is also by the one and nobly matdow Sowski.
Speaker 1: Still killing the beat softly, so listen. Don't let nobody
Speaker 1: lie to you. If you understand urban living, you understand politics.
Speaker 1: These people is not smarter than you. We'll see y'all
Speaker 1: next week.