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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: All right here we good politics.

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Speaker 1: This is a special day because it gets to be

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Speaker 1: really like this is an example of when I'm taking

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Speaker 1: a break, like this is my own personal source of

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Speaker 1: like mental health. Like I know it's corny when people

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Speaker 1: say go touch grass, but like this is how I

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Speaker 1: touch grass. Is my man, my guest out here, man,

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Speaker 1: please introduce yourself and then I'm gonna brag about you.

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Speaker 2: But you just go ahead introduce yourself.

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Speaker 3: Sure, my na, it's my gosh, I got my mango sometimes.

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Speaker 3: I come founded a magazine called Mental Floss when I

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Speaker 3: was in college and that for a long time. And

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Speaker 3: uh and now I've got a show called Part Time

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Speaker 3: Genius and a little podcast network called Kaleidoscope that's mostly

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Speaker 3: fo focused on like science content.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, uh, well you should be cited for misinformation on

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Speaker 1: this idea of like a small podcast network like you, Lion.

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Speaker 2: Is not small.

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Speaker 1: It's incredible, you know the types of shows that are

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Speaker 1: on there. So first, from a fanboy perspective, this show

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Speaker 1: is going to be kind of like a grab bag.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to really like I hate the term

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Speaker 1: pick your brain because I just feel like, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: called consulting, Like pick my brain. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you've got that before. People like, hey, man, can I

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Speaker 1: just like buy you buy your coffee? Man, pick your brain.

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Speaker 1: You're like, so for that, you just want You're just

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Speaker 1: gonna pay for my twenty years of experience with a

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Speaker 1: cup of coffee.

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Speaker 2: Out of it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I I never I never mind because

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Speaker 3: like a lot of people gave me a lot of

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Speaker 3: advice along the way, and a lot of people like

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Speaker 3: really really helped us and rooted for us and and

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Speaker 3: and that was huge, and so like, I never mind

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Speaker 3: having a conversation with someone, never mind having like a

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Speaker 3: coffee with someone. But but the big thing for me

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Speaker 3: is when they make it a lot of work for

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Speaker 3: you and they don't like and so like this one person,

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Speaker 3: uh was like, hey, would you mind like listening to

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Speaker 3: a show of mine and and like giving me notes?

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Speaker 3: And I was like, already, that's that's a little bit

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Speaker 3: about work. But you know it was like a friend

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Speaker 3: of a friend. I was like, sure, sure I could

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Speaker 3: do that, but just like pick out pick out the

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Speaker 3: episode for me, and they wouldn't. And they just got

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Speaker 3: being like, oh, you know, I've got this massive catalog,

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Speaker 3: so so you you find one that you like. It

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Speaker 3: was like, if you're going to ask for someone's elf,

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Speaker 3: just make it as easy as possible, you.

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Speaker 1: Know, Yes, for sure. Yeah, I think that's that you're

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Speaker 1: picking up going down here. I'm just like, it's not

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Speaker 1: so much like you know, I I My my business

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Speaker 1: model is generally just be a good hang, ye know,

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Speaker 1: and like, uh, you know, and I'm not gonna like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: just be a good hang. Like I'm not gonna like

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Speaker 1: if we're going out for coffee, like I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: invoice you or nor am I gonna be like you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: we can't talk about that right now, you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like, nah, like you know you're gonna give

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Speaker 1: me game. You're gonna give me a game, you know.

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Speaker 1: I I you know, obviously I'm from a I come

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Speaker 1: from black people, you know what I mean. And that's

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Speaker 1: part of our cultures that you give each other game,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But yeah, but anyway, Uh,

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Speaker 1: this show is really just like I I I am

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Speaker 1: essentially just gonna go all over the place because I

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Speaker 1: I find what you do in the way that you've

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Speaker 1: showed up publicly more attuned to what's going on inside

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Speaker 1: my head rather than like what's happened what I'm putting out?

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Speaker 2: So yeah, so so I can't tell you then.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, especially with like this the subject matter

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Speaker 1: that we cover on the show, like I try to

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Speaker 1: cover very serious things with a type of sort of

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Speaker 1: levity that kind of like holds some of this stuff

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Speaker 1: loosely in the sense that like as existential, especially as

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Speaker 1: the season we're in now, we are also really just

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Speaker 1: we're spinning on a rock, like and not even an

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Speaker 1: important rock, you know, like it's just you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, like this, like it's it's also it's also

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Speaker 1: not that serious, you know what I'm saying. Like, so

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Speaker 1: I try to like put some somewhat of a sense

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Speaker 1: of scale to what we're going through.

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Speaker 2: And and the way that I personally do that.

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Speaker 1: Is is I often look to science, you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, and just remind myself of like what a

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Speaker 1: binary star is. You're saying two black holes that got

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Speaker 1: connected on accident, like like what, like you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like, you know, there's dust clouds that are

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Speaker 1: not measured in distance, they're measured in time, Like this,

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Speaker 1: how tall is this dust cloud? It's five light years tall,

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Speaker 1: Like wait, that's it's so tall that you don't use that,

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Speaker 1: you don't use distance, like you know what I'm saying, Like,

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Speaker 1: so I try to remind myself of stuff like that

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Speaker 1: that like.

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Speaker 2: Puts things in perspective for me.

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Speaker 1: You know, obviously I say that while being in a

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Speaker 1: house with plumbing and running water and electricity. But it's anyway,

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Speaker 1: I gotta start with mental flaws because I can't tell

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Speaker 1: you how many times I've been I've paid for the

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Speaker 1: Wi Fi on a flight just so I could go

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Speaker 1: to mental flaws.

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Speaker 3: Like just that's incredible.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, I just want like it's the mode like

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Speaker 2: mind blowing.

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Speaker 1: And also it's this this, this is why I'm so

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Speaker 1: excited to do this show. I was like, dude, is

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Speaker 1: he really? Is he really down to do my show?

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Speaker 1: Like I know, like we have a lot of don't

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Speaker 1: shows on the network. You know what I'm saying that,

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Speaker 1: like have bigger audiences. But I'm like, I'm like, like,

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Speaker 1: you don't know what this man means to me, you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like so so, so to start

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Speaker 1: with mental flaws, it's like the combination of this is

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Speaker 1: mind blowing information that everybody needs to know.

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Speaker 2: And also this.

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Speaker 1: Is mind numbing like brainlessness that like also doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: Like how those two things.

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Speaker 1: I just don't like, Like, so I need to know

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Speaker 1: a little bit of history of mental flaws.

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Speaker 3: Like I love that so much. So so a couple

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Speaker 3: of things. One, uh, one thing that's really funny is that,

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Speaker 3: like the summer that my friend Will will appearson who

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Speaker 3: you probably know from from of course yeah yeah, uh,

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Speaker 3: we talked about starting metal Flass and uh, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, should I do this or should I? Like,

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Speaker 3: I have a friend who's like a uh who's really

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Speaker 3: good at freestyling, another friend who's a drummer who like

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Speaker 3: had taken lessons from Max Roach like like and and

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Speaker 3: and we're like no, like should I be in this

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Speaker 3: hip hop band or should Oh?

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Speaker 2: I know I liked you. He's like, I was going

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Speaker 2: to be a rapper. I was going to be a rapper.

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Speaker 2: I don't if you guys know this. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Rap skilled, but I could play the keys and like

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Speaker 3: put beans together and so but but but anyway, so

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Speaker 3: the idea behind metal Class was, uh, you know, Will

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Speaker 3: and I were in college and and we were freshmen

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Speaker 3: and there were Everyone used to come back from their

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Speaker 3: their classes and and they would talk about like the

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Speaker 3: the craziest ship they learned, right, like everything from like

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Speaker 3: you know, the fact that the bronx who had a

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Speaker 3: pigmy in it for for years, you know, like the

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Speaker 3: fact that like you know, like anything from like string

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Speaker 3: theory to economic theory to whatever. And it was it

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Speaker 3: was like but but it was really just the most

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Speaker 3: fascinating stuff and the stuff you want to hear. And

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Speaker 3: and part of what we realized was like, you know,

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Speaker 3: are like my dad was out of work, We're taking

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Speaker 3: all these loans to go to college, like I was

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Speaker 3: gonna have to get a job to like you know

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Speaker 3: that felt like probably pre law. So something that was

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Speaker 3: like you know, destined to to be very specific. And

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Speaker 3: and what Will and I were saying was like after

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Speaker 3: you graduate, like what like where do you learn? Where

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Speaker 3: do you have time to learn? Like like you're so

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Speaker 3: focused on this one thing and and and even getting

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Speaker 3: to that, right, like you have to major in one thing,

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Speaker 3: you have to specifically like like go deep on something,

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Speaker 3: but like where do you get the time to like

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Speaker 3: engage with the incredible richness of stories and knowledge and

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Speaker 3: stuff that's out there, and he and I had this idea.

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Speaker 3: We're like, well, what if what if it just felt

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Speaker 3: like sitting What if you could get a magazine in

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Speaker 3: the mail and you could like skim it and just

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Speaker 3: reading it felt like sitting with your favorite professors at

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Speaker 3: a bar where they're just telling you stories, right, They're

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Speaker 3: telling you the best things, the most interesting things, and

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Speaker 3: it's not like comprehensive, but it gets you to be

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Speaker 3: engaged in a topic, right, Like it gets you to

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Speaker 3: like to want to know more about a certain subject.

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Speaker 3: And so that's kind of what we did. And we

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Speaker 3: were like naive and cocky and and like you know,

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Speaker 3: twenty years old, and we put out a campus edition,

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Speaker 3: and we we googled a book called how to Make

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Speaker 3: a Magazine, written by Mister Magazine, and we followed it

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Speaker 3: page by page.

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Speaker 4: And.

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Speaker 3: You know, like like part of brilliant, part of it

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Speaker 3: really was so so like we put out a campus edition,

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Speaker 3: we thought like, let's try to make this spend our

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Speaker 3: scene year just trying to get it to Barnes and

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Speaker 3: Noble and Borders and stuff. And we figured out how

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Speaker 3: and we put it out on stands right before you know, uh,

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Speaker 3: that summer of two thousand and one, and then nine

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Speaker 3: to eleven happened, and we were like, you know this,

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Speaker 3: you know, this is kind of end end of our dream.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna have to like go to law school or whatever,

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Speaker 3: like figure out something else. And what we found was that,

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Speaker 3: you know, when the world's in turmoil, like people need

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Speaker 3: a break, like and and it's not that like you

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Speaker 3: shouldn't be paying attention to things, but sometimes you just

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Speaker 3: do need a break and and and this magazine was

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Speaker 3: a break for people, and it made them feel good

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Speaker 3: about learning in a way and and and so like

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Speaker 3: that that was really joyous and and and we you know,

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Speaker 3: in the beginning it was like my mom, Will's mom

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Speaker 3: and two hundred of our mom's friends.

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Speaker 1: Who subscribed to the magazine and my first album, see baby,

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Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you.

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Speaker 5: Yeah completely and uh but but but you know, we

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Speaker 5: we made sure to reach out to every single person

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Speaker 5: who uh who reached out to us, and so like

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Speaker 5: there was this old, older woman from a retirement home

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Speaker 5: and uh and and.

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Speaker 3: She said, uh, she was like, when are you coming

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Speaker 3: out with a large print edition? And we were like,

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Speaker 3: we can really get like, you know, we we're like

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Speaker 3: working two part time jobs and like spending our evenings

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Speaker 3: like trying to make this magazine and put together and whatever,

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Speaker 3: and like like there's no way we're gonna get a

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Speaker 3: And then Will wrote her back and he said, Hey,

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Speaker 3: we're not going to be able to put out a

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Speaker 3: large print edition, but we are going to send you

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Speaker 3: word documents of every article and you can print them

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Speaker 3: out at whatever size you want and and you can, uh,

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Speaker 3: you can still read and enjoy the magazine. And she

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Speaker 3: sent out like thirty subscriptions to friends for Christmas, and

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Speaker 3: it was like, we had no money for like marketing.

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Speaker 3: We barely had enough money to like to get the

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Speaker 3: magazines out the door, and and it only grew through

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Speaker 3: word of mouth. So that was this kind of a.

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Speaker 1: See that's the testament of just yes, that's the testament

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Speaker 1: of just being like you just being DoPT like you're

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Speaker 1: just being cool folks. It's like, oh, I mean you

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Speaker 1: could have had an artist like you. I'll send you

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Speaker 1: the word docs like that again. Like that to me,

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Speaker 1: that lines up with like, yeah, that's my business model.

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Speaker 1: Like how many times people have hit me like in

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Speaker 1: my other world with music where they're just yeah, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: like I don't you know, I can't afford a forty

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Speaker 1: dollars hoodie, all right, I'll just I'll just send you

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Speaker 1: one like it's fine. I'm saying like, yeah, okay, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean, and then you know, and then

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Speaker 1: it turns out like like I can't say. I can't

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Speaker 1: tell you how many times it's been like you know,

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Speaker 1: you you were kind to somebody that like, you know,

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Speaker 1: went to pick up coffee, and then it turns out

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Speaker 1: like whether the head of curation at Spotify now you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like dude, you were like and I'm like, dude, man, yeah, like.

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Speaker 2: And I didn't. It wasn't like I was planning that.

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Speaker 2: It was just like people kind.

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Speaker 3: Of yeah, you aren't scouting who you're kidding.

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Speaker 2: I was like, that's going to be immogual.

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Speaker 1: But even in that story, man, you said so many

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Speaker 1: things that like truly like resonate with me because it's

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Speaker 1: like I I kind of discovered in college. I went

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Speaker 1: for illustration and in their cultural studies, like and like,

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Speaker 1: I think my love for hip hop was part of

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Speaker 1: what made me be so interested in cultures, right, and

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Speaker 1: just like what's going on around the world? Where does

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Speaker 1: these sounds come where these people come, Like how do

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Speaker 1: y'all dance? Like I get So that kind of opened

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Speaker 1: my mind to a lot more just being connected to

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Speaker 1: the world. And my father was a black panther, so

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Speaker 1: I was already kind of like plugged in with like

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Speaker 1: social movements and stuff, you know, just finding a lot

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Speaker 1: of finding figuring out that I found a lot of

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Speaker 1: things interesting, you know, And really what I enjoyed about

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Speaker 1: college was that, like I joined man, I joined the

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Speaker 1: like the Filipino Club, I joined the like Southeast Indian Club,

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Speaker 1: Like you know what I'm saying, Like because I was

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Speaker 1: just like, like I find it interesting.

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Speaker 3: I want to dive in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: Like I didn't, you know, I in, you know, as

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Speaker 1: an art major, like I had to. You know, I

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Speaker 1: had my art classes, but I was taking stuff on earthquakes.

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Speaker 1: I took an Asian American women class. Like you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Like, I'm just like I just found

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Speaker 1: it all interesting.

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Speaker 2: I had.

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Speaker 1: I had a one of my polycide professors was like

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Speaker 1: who actually like wrote to the art department to get

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Speaker 1: me to change majors, And I was like, you're tripping, bro,

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Speaker 1: in a winter World. I'm like, I'm an artist, you know,

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Speaker 1: here doing a politics podcast. But like in that class,

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Speaker 1: he was like, look, man, I use a real crass dude,

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Speaker 1: but like I really stuck with me. He was like, man, really,

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Speaker 1: really you go to college to just to sound smart

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Speaker 1: at cocktail parties, you know, like, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: well what do you mean by that? He goes, you

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Speaker 1: know a little bit about everything, you know what I'm saying. Like,

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Speaker 1: so when you're at the company mixer, you know, and

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Speaker 1: you're chatting up the head of HR you know about

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Speaker 1: the three laws of thermodynamics and like it's an accounting job,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean. But you're like, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about like the Magna carta being, you know,

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Speaker 1: the rough draft of what the constitutions becomes.

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Speaker 2: And it's like it's I know, it's twelve ninety five.

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Speaker 1: Like like just knowing that stuff, you're interesting, you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So now when you go to apply,

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Speaker 1: it's like your resumes are the same anybody, and they'd

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Speaker 1: rather train you on their system, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: So like, yeah, that you have a resonate better than

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Speaker 1: this person, It's like, Nah, you're you're cool to be

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Speaker 1: around because you're interesting, you have a lot of things,

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Speaker 1: so like it already felt like that's the way like

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Speaker 1: I already functioned. And I was like, man, but to

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Speaker 1: your point, like I knew I didn't want to go

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Speaker 1: to grad school. I was like, I don't have time

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Speaker 1: to burn a thousand page book, you know, and like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm already a slow reader. Like that's something that's been

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Speaker 1: true for me. I just I just read slow, you know,

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Speaker 1: But like.

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Speaker 3: No, me too, yeah, you know, And and I mean

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Speaker 3: I was. I was an anthropology major, like cultural anthropology,

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Speaker 3: and part of the reason was, like there are two reasons. One,

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Speaker 3: I just found it fascinating to like dip into like

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Speaker 3: any culture around the world and see like how they lived,

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Speaker 3: how they looked at the environment, how they looked at religion,

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Speaker 3: how they looked at what, you know, like food, like

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Speaker 3: any that that whole thing and that comparative sense of

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Speaker 3: the world was really fascinating to me. But the other

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Speaker 3: thing I really loved about it was that the writing.

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Speaker 3: And I'm a slow reader. In fact, I I have

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Speaker 3: poor comprehension, so it takes me like slow time to

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Speaker 3: like like make sure I understand something or whatever. But

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Speaker 3: but so the thing I loved about anthropological writing and

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Speaker 3: these ethnographies was that they weren't self serious, they weren't pedantic,

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Speaker 3: they weren't like talking down to you. They were just

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Speaker 3: like and and there was this thing called participant observation,

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Speaker 3: and so like they would go try to live with

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Speaker 3: a you know, a group in the Kalahari or a

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Speaker 3: group and wherever, and and they'd make fun of the

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Speaker 3: fact that they pitched the tent in the wrong place

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Speaker 3: and it flooded and everyone laughed at them. Where they

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Speaker 3: you know, like like all these things, like it was

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Speaker 3: you're allowed to make mistakes, you're allowed to laugh at yourself,

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Speaker 3: but you're also like allowed to be fascinated. And to

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Speaker 3: me that was like very much the tone of like

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Speaker 3: everyone's welcome, you know, everyone's welcome to hear this stuff,

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Speaker 3: and and like and it's not going to be hard

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Speaker 3: to read. And then and and that that was like

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Speaker 3: very much like part of part of the philosophy.

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Speaker 2: I loved it.

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Speaker 6: Man.

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Speaker 1: I remember to that point too, Like in the art

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Speaker 1: history courses you have to take, I was always fascinated

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Speaker 1: with like ancient civilizations, probably for the same reasons you're

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Speaker 1: saying or where it's like if you you know, drop

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Speaker 1: yourself into you know the bottom of the Amazon and

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Speaker 1: like people who this is their normal lives, you know

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: But like.

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Speaker 1: I remember, they made a point in like one of

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Speaker 1: my like sub Saharan African classes. They're like you go

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Speaker 1: to a museum and what's on the wall framed behind glass,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: Boxes is a fork? A bowl.

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Speaker 1: Blanket? Like like can you imagine that? Like like it's

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Speaker 1: a fork, you know what I'm saying. So like if

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Speaker 1: you are from this culture like I be, I always

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Speaker 1: like pictured myself like yeah, post apocalypse, you know, time

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Speaker 1: machine going to a museum in you know, some off

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Speaker 1: center place and there's just like an iPhone charger just

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Speaker 1: like hanging on the wall, as like oh this is

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Speaker 1: this was their early twenty first century art, Like.

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Speaker 2: That's a bowl? Like what it? You have a bowl

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Speaker 2: on the wall?

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Speaker 1: You know? So I think that that like like you said,

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Speaker 1: that lack of self seriousness, Like I love it because

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Speaker 1: it's like you I feel like you need that to

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Speaker 1: stay healthy. Like again, like I remind myself whenever I

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Speaker 1: have to dive into so much polic I'm like, we're

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Speaker 1: on a rock spinning in space.

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Speaker 2: Like it just we're on a rock spinning in space.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'm a fast forward super far so like

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Speaker 1: you and will you guys y'all invented podcasts whatever, like

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Speaker 1: just early adapters figured it out, knew what to do.

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Speaker 1: What was the like light bulb like and let me

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Speaker 1: let me, let me give a little context of this.

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Speaker 1: In my career leading up to this, the record label

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Speaker 1: I was on for ten years was it was called

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Speaker 1: Humble Beast, who started by like one of my closest friends,

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Speaker 1: but like in two thousand and seven, he had the

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Speaker 1: wherewithal to know that within like ten years, you're not

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Speaker 1: going to be able to sell an album. Like so

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Speaker 1: he was like, we'll just give you give us your

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Speaker 1: email address, and we'll send you a download link. This

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Speaker 1: was like, we didn't we didn't conceive of streaming, but

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Speaker 1: we can. But he conceived of like digital music and

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Speaker 1: not being able to like they're gonna get your album.

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Speaker 1: So here's what we need. We need your contact info.

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Speaker 1: So like like this is two thousand and eight, like

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Speaker 1: him being like, yeah, like send us your email address,

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Speaker 1: and then he was like, once we get an e newsletter.

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Speaker 2: That's how we'll tour.

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Speaker 1: So we'll use we'll do it by like location, and

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Speaker 1: we'll tour just based on yeah. Like and I remember

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Speaker 1: him bringing that to like different distributors and then being

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Speaker 1: like are you You're out of your mind? And we

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Speaker 1: were like, all right, well let's just do it and

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Speaker 1: yeah for a good you know, five to seven years

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Speaker 1: before Spotify became a thing, Like that's how we's how

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Speaker 1: we ate, that's how we toured. Was like, like, who's

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Speaker 1: the promoter you're using. I was like, we don't have one.

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Speaker 1: We have five hundred emails in this city.

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Speaker 2: We just email them. Yeah, I'm said, and yeah, you.

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Speaker 1: Know so so I I I now look at him

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Speaker 1: like what how did you.

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Speaker 2: How did you see that coming? You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: So like I feel like you guys did that with podcasts,

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Speaker 1: Like how did you?

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Speaker 3: I think I think that you know, from from the

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Speaker 3: Metal Plus days, we were always outsiders, right, like you

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Speaker 3: know we were we were making a magazine from like Birmingham,

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Speaker 3: Alabama instead of like, uh, you know, instead of New York,

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Speaker 3: and we didn't have like the money or the trappings

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Speaker 3: all of us, and we didn't have advertising for for

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Speaker 3: for the magazine, right, and so like, uh, when you

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Speaker 3: are outsiders, like you're always trying to like for me,

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Speaker 3: Like like the realization was that like the only thing

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Speaker 3: that mattered was the connection to the audience, right, like,

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Speaker 3: and you need an audience that really cared for you

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Speaker 3: and and really cared about you, and so like we

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Speaker 3: worked extra hard to like make captions really funny, right,

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Speaker 3: Like there were footnotes that were funny. They were like

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Speaker 3: things that like like things that no one else cared

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Speaker 3: about or looked past. Like yeah, we we like worked

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Speaker 3: extra hard because like if you're caring about that thing,

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Speaker 3: you're definitely caring about the article, right and the way

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Speaker 3: the article was shaped and the facts and all that

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Speaker 3: stuff and and so like when we realized we couldn't

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Speaker 3: make money off advertising, we figured out other ways and

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Speaker 3: so we'd like spent all this time making like funny

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Speaker 3: uh headlines, right, but the headlines were ephemeral, the only

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Speaker 3: last for so long, and so like so we took

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Speaker 3: those and we put them on T shirts and people

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Speaker 3: started buying those, right like like we we we we

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Speaker 3: you know we we we we realized, oh you know

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Speaker 3: we we At the time, there were all these men's

434
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 3: magazines like lad magazines and like they all had like

435
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 3: swimsuit isshoes and so like we decided to do our

436
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 3: own swimsuit issue with like Albert Einstein and Eleanor Roosevelt

437
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,439
Speaker 3: and Louis Armstrong and like like real historical photos. It

438
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 3: was the worst selling issue in our history. But it

439
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 3: was really all this press, yeah, and and and then

440
00:23:58,359 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 3: and then we turned that into like a book deal

441
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 3: right like and so like everything was like, how do

442
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 3: we do something else out of this? How do we

443
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 3: delight our audience? And how do we like preserve that

444
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,160
Speaker 3: feeling that we're making something special for them continuously?

445
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 1: Right?

446
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 3: And so I was we were at Mental Flaws for

447
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 3: like seventeen years, I think sixteen or seventeen years. And

448
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 3: by that time we'd done everything from like we'd done

449
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 3: a TV show We've done with that geo it was

450
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 3: called Brain Surgery Live. We did like thirteen books, all

451
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 3: these like the business had grown in various ways, like

452
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 3: there's a massive website like all these things, you know,

453
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 3: And my whole thing was like, how do you still

454
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:40,679
Speaker 3: make this feel small? How do you still make this

455
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 3: feel like you're talking directly to the reader, right like

456
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 3: and along the way we sold a magazine. The guy

457
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 3: who we loved was a crazy billionaire who decided to

458
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,239
Speaker 3: give all his properties to a forest in England, and

459
00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 3: so like we were owned by a nonprofit that was

460
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 3: a forest in England, that owned a British company that

461
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:11,719
Speaker 3: owned an American company, and so like it what it

462
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 3: was a structure that made zero sense. And when we

463
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 3: kept proposing things, we were like, hey, we can do

464
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 3: this book in print, we can do this TV show,

465
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:19,479
Speaker 3: we can do this, and they're like no, no, no,

466
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 3: we just like, you know, they weren't interested in anything.

467
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,000
Speaker 3: And so when we looked at non compete, the only

468
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 3: thing we hadn't done was audio, and How Stuff Works

469
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,199
Speaker 3: reached out to us and they were like, hey, do

470
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 3: you want to help us make more ambitious things in audio?

471
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 3: And the truth was, initially I was like, no, I think.

472
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 3: I think I just want to like figure out something

473
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 3: small that's like meaningful that I get my hands dirty,

474
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 3: you know. And then the more we thought about it,

475
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 3: it was like, oh, the fact that you're in someone's ear,

476
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,199
Speaker 3: the fact that you like the fact that people who

477
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 3: listened to How Stuff Works were listening to eleven hours

478
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 3: of content every week from this you know, this network,

479
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 3: you know the fact that people really wanted this and

480
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 3: there was opportunity to like, it just felt like there

481
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 3: was something that could be done in the space that

482
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,680
Speaker 3: hadn't been thought of yet, and lots of things done

483
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 3: in the space, lots of voices to bring in, lots

484
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 3: of you know, like all of that. There was so

485
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 3: much possibility and so much fun. And also like the

486
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 3: people at the Stuff Network, who at the time were

487
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,159
Speaker 3: like like some of the La crew, you know, like

488
00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 3: Robert Evans coming in, Like it just felt like, oh,

489
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 3: this is a great time to be here, you know.

490
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, man, I feel like I missed. I missed

491
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: a golden age, Like I came in a little late.

492
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 1: But like that I always say, like that network is

493
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 1: like yeah, like how I actually became like a guy

494
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: that likes pods, you know what I mean?

495
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, you know, there was an era when it.

496
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,760
Speaker 1: Was like dealersten podcasts like that was like a thing

497
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: saying like like you know, are you in a punk

498
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,520
Speaker 1: music Like it was like your your shove genre, you

499
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,680
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, And that for me, like that

500
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: network was like, dude, I think I like podcasts. And

501
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,120
Speaker 1: I think it's because of what you said to where

502
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: you're just like I still like learning, you know. And

503
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: I think specifically that one was because you know, whether

504
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: it was the music, the like justice work I was

505
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,480
Speaker 1: a part of, like a lot of the stuff that

506
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 1: I do, it's just so intense, it's just so psychologically emotionally,

507
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: like it's it's taxing, you know what I'm saying, Like

508
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: you know, get especially like right now, like talking about

509
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: politics every week, I try.

510
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 2: To I try to quarantine it to two and a half.

511
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 1: Days out of my week to be like, Okay, you

512
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:42,080
Speaker 1: only get two and a half days, you know what

513
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: I'm saying. But I'm also a citizen of the country,

514
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. So like this affects not

515
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: podcaster prop, this affects Jason, like the.

516
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 2: And resident and and it's hard.

517
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 3: I mean, like on one hand, it it then diagrams

518
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 3: everything that you're interested in so beautifully right, like like

519
00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 3: like you know, the way you can put the same

520
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:12,199
Speaker 3: spirit between behind like getting a message out through a

521
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,439
Speaker 3: song that same like our artistry like that same like

522
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,119
Speaker 3: you know, the same the social justice work, the fact

523
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 3: you know, the teacher prop episodes, right like like all

524
00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 3: these things like yeah, like they work beautifully together in

525
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 3: this space. And and honestly, like within this network, you

526
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 3: have a voice that is distinct and necessary and and

527
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 3: and it's like you know, like like I told you before,

528
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 3: I was like, you know, I listened to the stuff

529
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 3: you've done with Robert. I'd like, you know, been aware

530
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,120
Speaker 3: of stuff and and and I binge stuff. And then

531
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 3: I started sending it to my son, right and I

532
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: was like, oh my my, you know, my my son

533
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 3: loves hip hop, he loves drill, he loves like like

534
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 3: he loves jazz, loves music and and and he's trying

535
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 3: to figure out how to be in this world. And

536
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 3: he knows that like the voices that are coming through

537
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 3: to him on TikTok aren't the right voices, you know,

538
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 3: like like and and and so like how do you

539
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 3: counter that? How do you find like so like what

540
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 3: you do is so important and also like of course

541
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 3: you've got to protect yourself, right, like like because you're

542
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 3: basically doing therapy for for a world of blisters.

543
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 1: Woh boy boy, yes man, thank you, thank you for that.

544
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 2: You describe like how I kind of want to be

545
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 2: in the world. So I definitely appreciate that.

546
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: And and I think that that brings us to what

547
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: you guys are doing now with Kaleidoscope and with the

548
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: you're counting down the twenty five what wait, tell me

549
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: say it, say it correctly, I'm gonna say it wrong.

550
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 3: It was the twenty five most important UH science ideas

551
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 3: of the last twenty five years, but twenty five ridiculous things.

552
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 2: For the most hour, it was.

553
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 6: Exactly what I needed, like exactly what I needed. I

554
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 6: don't even want to spoil any of it, Like I

555
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 6: like I purposefully wrote it was like don't tell at

556
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 6: all what any of these people to actually just go

557
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 6: listen because it's like it's it's yes, just they're ridiculous.

558
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 6: I I think you you've, you've kind of like already

559
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 6: hit on the head, hit the head on the nail.

560
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 6: Like what I wanted to get from the show, which

561
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 6: was justice, the the living in the tension of the

562
00:30:53,840 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 6: the seriousness and the levity that like you whether it's

563
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 6: and from that level and from the meta level, because

564
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 6: like you know, you're you're, you're. That's like this might

565
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 6: sound more competitive than I mean it to be, but

566
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 6: it's I'm not trying to be competitive. I'm just like, Bro,

567
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 6: you're like like the way like you're speaking about starting

568
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 6: multiple multimillion dollar businesses and just like, oh yeah, we

569
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 6: were just you know, we're just kids and trying to

570
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 6: figure it out and we don't have any money for this,

571
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 6: Like bro, wait time out me Like come on, fam

572
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 6: these I like, I am like actively considering, Like I

573
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 6: started a coffee company and I'm like actively like figuring

574
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 6: out how to wind it down because I'm like I

575
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 6: don't know how to do this and I don't even

576
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 6: I'm not enjoying that, like you know what I'm saying.

577
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 6: So I'm like starting a business it at all at

578
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 6: all is hard, you know what I'm saying, and not fun,

579
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 6: but then starting one and then it works and then

580
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 6: selling it, Like are you hitting me?

581
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,520
Speaker 2: Like you're alien? Like this is not easy.

582
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean the truth is I got. I

583
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 3: got really lucky, and I got lucky in a lot

584
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 3: of ways, right Like I got. My dad had worked

585
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 3: at a company where he had worked there for twenty

586
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 3: nine years, and he was about to the reason he'd

587
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 3: stayed there that long partially was there was an agreement

588
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 3: where where like if you get to thirty years there,

589
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 3: you get your full pension, you know, like all these things,

590
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 3: like you know, and and on his twenty ninth year,

591
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 3: they went through and cut everyone of his cohort, like

592
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 3: and and and so like, you know, my dad had

593
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 3: put all his life. You could have taken better jobs,

594
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 3: et cetera, right like at this company. And like I

595
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 3: was just going to college. My dad lost a job.

596
00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 3: And I was like, I don't trust corporations, you know,

597
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 3: like like I don't. I don't, like there's no one

598
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 3: there who's looking out for me. My dad, like you know,

599
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 3: did the incredible work there. He was like, you know,

600
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 3: like a very very respected scientist actually, and and and

601
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 3: like and at the end of it, like he you know,

602
00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 3: he was just dismissed. And also I mean this is

603
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:18,640
Speaker 3: completely separate, but like I think part of the reason

604
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 3: that I ended up starting mental class is because because

605
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 3: my parents are immigrants, right, like like like living between

606
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 3: two worlds. And and when you're brown in like a

607
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 3: like a mostly it was diverse, but like a mostly

608
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 3: white suburb or whatever, there's like a feeling of less

609
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 3: than that that like sometimes you know, you can inhabit

610
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 3: and and like for me, like this living in two

611
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 3: worlds where I'd go to India and be a certain

612
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 3: person come back to the States, like you know, when

613
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 3: when I get to when we'd save up enough to

614
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 3: visit my grandparents or whatever. Like there were things that

615
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 3: were just intimidating about the world and and so like

616
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 3: something like art and art history was intimidating. There was

617
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 3: like a barrier of entry to like understanding it. Something

618
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 3: like you know the way you walk into like certain

619
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 3: rooms and can't talk about certain conversations, right, like conversational

620
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 3: topics like that is intimidating. And college can like ameliorate

621
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 3: some of that, and like reading certainly, like and can

622
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 3: can fix a lot of that. But like, but for me,

623
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 3: that's part of what the magazine was too. It was

624
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 3: a leveler, right, Like it was this way that I

625
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 3: could satisfy like curiosity and whatever. And part of the

626
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 3: reason we'd started the magazine too was like in my

627
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 3: freshman year, I had applied to all these publishing internships

628
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 3: and I didn't get a response from many of them,

629
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 3: and I realized, oh, I'm an outsider. I'm going to

630
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 3: have to do it myself, right, Like, if I'm going

631
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 3: to want my name in print, there's no other way

632
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 3: than like, and so for me, it's like, yeah, I

633
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,359
Speaker 3: got I got really lucky. I got I got I

634
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 3: got Will as a partner who's the most incredible, like smartest,

635
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 3: like really savvy, really thoughtful person like that that I

636
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 3: could have had, and and like and he had connections

637
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 3: and he like pulled me into those and he had

638
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 3: like you know, like his his his dad had been

639
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 3: in the States a long time for generations, right, and

640
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 3: so like they had the people in publishing, they knew

641
00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 3: people in right, And so like I'm lucky that way.

642
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 3: Like colleges, whatever college you go to, they're filled with

643
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 3: professors who want to help you, right, and so like

644
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 3: we took advantage of that, right, Like, like like I

645
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 3: said in the beginning, right, the fact that I'm willing

646
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 3: to give conversations, have conversations with anyone, right is, and

647
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 3: it's not always easy, right, Sometimes sometimes people have to

648
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 3: bug me like two or three times, right, Like it's

649
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,319
Speaker 3: it's not like but but but it's but I will

650
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 3: make time for people because so many people made time

651
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 3: for me. And so like I just I just don't

652
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 3: think I think that I got lucky. I don't think

653
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 3: that business is I think that if you're doing something

654
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:46,439
Speaker 3: authentic and you're doing something that connects with people, and

655
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 3: you're constantly trying to figure out like how do I

656
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:50,840
Speaker 3: make this better for you? How do I make this

657
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,799
Speaker 3: a service for someone? Like how how am I like

658
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 3: entertaining or pleasing someone?

659
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,479
Speaker 4: Like if you're constantly thinking through that, like, it isn't

660
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:34,400
Speaker 4: that hard.

661
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 2: I love it. I heard an interview. I'm trying to

662
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 2: remember who the guy was.

663
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 1: It's this is gonna make the quote suck because I

664
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,919
Speaker 1: can't remember exactly what it was. But he was asked

665
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 1: like a similar question about like succeeding in business and

666
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: like what do you like what's some of the key takeaways?

667
00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 1: And he was like, well, be born a white male

668
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:03,000
Speaker 1: and a rich fan Like he finally like like just

669
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,959
Speaker 1: he just cut through it and was just like acknowledging

670
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: in the funniest way the reality of just like look, dude,

671
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:13,880
Speaker 1: I'm privileged, Like I am not unaware.

672
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 2: You know.

673
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: And he's like, of course you got it, like the

674
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: I don't. Of Course you gotta work hard. Of course

675
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: you got a hustle. Of Course you got to put

676
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 1: your ten thousand hours in. Of course you do right,

677
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: but like guys, it's like, can we just acknowledge like

678
00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: you said, like Yo, it's you were, like Yo, I

679
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: loved youself, Like bro, I got lucky man like Will

680
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 1: Will's Daddy's connected.

681
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 2: I don't know what to tell you, you know what

682
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 2: I'm saying, Like I don't, like I don't.

683
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,680
Speaker 1: I just happened to be at school with him, like

684
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 1: you know, and I think that like that for someone

685
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,959
Speaker 1: who's like every day grinding, you know what I'm saying,

686
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:58,640
Speaker 1: like white knuckling, trying their best. I first, this obviously,

687
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: like the shadow of you becomes cynical. But then the

688
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: other side is like, oh that's great. That that means

689
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: that there's nothing wrong with you.

690
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:08,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know what I'm.

691
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 1: Saying, Like that you have what it takes. You are

692
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: being authentic, You are put in in the hours. You're

693
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: making something that you can stand by. You know what

694
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: I'm saying that, Like I remember I had another guy

695
00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: told me like you just have to get this. White

696
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: boy played a kind of like some like kind of

697
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 1: like blue eyed soul type music, you know what I mean.

698
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: He had my elbot voice, but he used to say, man,

699
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 1: you just got to make something that's just like just

700
00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,919
Speaker 1: fuck off good where you're just like it's so good,

701
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,879
Speaker 1: you just fuck off, man, this is amazing.

702
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:38,960
Speaker 2: And he's like, that's that's what you do.

703
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: You make something just that Like no, they can't get

704
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,799
Speaker 1: did nowhere except from here, you know what I'm saying.

705
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 3: I mean, and I and I think that's true. But

706
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 3: also everyone starts somewhere right like and yeah, totally and

707
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 3: so like you know the first time you I mean,

708
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 3: I remember reading Miles Davis's autobiography when I was in

709
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 3: like ninth grade or something and and being like, oh, well,

710
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 3: the first sentence is amazing. It's like the best it's

711
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 3: like the best feeling I remember. I remember having with

712
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 3: my clothes on is listening just like like listen Dizzy

713
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:19,120
Speaker 3: and then and it's Charlie Parker like playing but but

714
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,480
Speaker 3: but but like you see the products where he's like, oh,

715
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 3: this guy who's a high schooler when I'm in eighth

716
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 3: grade like plays these licks on the piano and they're

717
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 3: unbelievable and and like and that's something to aspire to, right,

718
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,839
Speaker 3: and like you're constantly like aspiring, you're constantly making something better,

719
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,920
Speaker 3: like you know, like like the first the first vaccine

720
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 3: was riddled with so many errors that the printer back

721
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 3: to us to like to fix all the like, like

722
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 3: like they were like, no, we.

723
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: Can't prink guys, Like I know it's my job just

724
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 1: to press print, but like I can't read.

725
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,920
Speaker 3: Like we didn't put bylines on the like on the

726
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 3: table of contents for people, and and like that was

727
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 3: a huge And finally we got magazine printed. It had

728
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,960
Speaker 3: a UPC code, but it didn't have the like it

729
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 3: didn't have the price on it. And and we're so

730
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 3: proud that we had an UPC code on this this

731
00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 3: magazine because we were like seniors in college and and

732
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,720
Speaker 3: and so so we had to like at Will's parents

733
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 3: dining room table, like everyone was stickering like prices and

734
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 3: then mailing the magazine not you know, I mean like

735
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 3: it's you're gonna made a lot of mistakes, you know,

736
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 3: like yeah, and and and and everything that feels like

737
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 3: it's going to be a success isn't. Like you know,

738
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 3: you think you're just waiting for like the big thing

739
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,760
Speaker 3: to hit, and the big thing is always like really great,

740
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,520
Speaker 3: but it's never it's never like that big a thing,

741
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 3: you know, it's always like a little bit better a

742
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 3: little bit and so it's always like this constant building

743
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 3: and and you know, to Will's parents point, I mean

744
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 3: like like his his dad grew up very like I think,

745
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 3: lower middle class and in Alabama and like and he

746
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:55,640
Speaker 3: worked really hard and he made connections and stuff. But

747
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 3: but you know where my dad didn't know anyone from college.

748
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 3: Will's dad did it right, like you know, like but

749
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:07,560
Speaker 3: but but but there there's a line from I think

750
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 3: it was like Warren Buffett's partner Charlie Monger said something like,

751
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 3: what's the fastest way to like make a hundred million dollars?

752
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 3: Start with ten million dollars, you know, And and that's exactly.

753
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 3: It's like it's a lot easier when you get some

754
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,640
Speaker 3: of these like yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, baked in

755
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 3: advantages and.

756
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it.

757
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 1: Man, that's super real. So I think, lastly, uh, I'm

758
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: going to get to like the politics part. So you

759
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 1: have this this amazing outlet that I know, like I again,

760
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: like I go to this when I like need a break,

761
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: you know, but like I don't like I'm not like

762
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:46,360
Speaker 1: I can't do the candy kind of like four twenty,

763
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 1: you know, not for twenty Beyonce, I don't want to

764
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: make fun of Miles, but like like ninety eight Beyonce,

765
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: like I I I don't find solace in that, like

766
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: because I'm like, like messiness stresses me out, like you'll say,

767
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: like my TMG, Like I get more stress with that.

768
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,000
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, And it's bad, but I

769
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:05,759
Speaker 2: know it means nothing.

770
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: But I'm just like I hate this, but I go

771
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,200
Speaker 1: to like stuff that like what you guys do. But

772
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:16,359
Speaker 1: I think that there's a reality again that you still

773
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: live in this world. You brought up the fact that

774
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:19,800
Speaker 1: like you know, your parents are immigrants, you know what

775
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: I'm saying, and and just the reality of like this

776
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: is the world we live in, man, like the the

777
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 1: obvious direction. You know, I'm assuming nothing about your politics

778
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: except for your knowledge of history, which would be like

779
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: it's hard to not see what's happening here, you know

780
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. So my question is, like, in what

781
00:42:41,080 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: ways are you sort of taking care of yourself, like

782
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: moving in the world, and just in the ways that

783
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 1: you're already making the world better by the by the

784
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 1: content you're making, but in ways that like could be

785
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,399
Speaker 1: things that our listeners could hear us like this how

786
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:58,919
Speaker 1: we move in through this times right now?

787
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know it's it's it's different for for

788
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 3: every person, every family. Uh. And and I think that

789
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 3: I I have a younger kid who's non binary and

790
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 3: and to have and one of the places that we

791
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 3: felt was safest is New York City, right like you

792
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 3: feel you feel it's kind of been enclave for like

793
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 3: people who are different, and I mean it attracts all

794
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,560
Speaker 3: sorts of weirdos and artists, etcetera, right like and and

795
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 3: uh and to get notes from the pediatrics division at

796
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 3: n y U that say they know they're no longer

797
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:49,840
Speaker 3: providing services to to UH for for UH kids who

798
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 3: who are dealing with issues of gender like it was

799
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,680
Speaker 3: was really sort of heartrending. And and you see, I

800
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 3: live in Brooklyn. The amount of homelessness around me, like

801
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 3: it's just all the unhouse population here is like it's

802
00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 3: just like it is. You see it all around you,

803
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,440
Speaker 3: and you see the devastation around you and the ways

804
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 3: that community hasn't been working, you know, like or hasn't

805
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,280
Speaker 3: shown up and and and I think that's hard to see.

806
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 3: And then on the other side of it, right like

807
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 3: you see so many people pulling together in really beautiful

808
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 3: and incredible ways and and so like I think, I

809
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 3: think to me, like community gardens really are like like

810
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 3: a place of you know, where you see older people

811
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 3: and younger people mixing. Like Uh, I play. I play

812
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 3: a lot of tennis, and I play with anyone who

813
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 3: wants to play, and and uh and to be just

814
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:52,479
Speaker 3: like finding common ground and then having conversations from there.

815
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 3: And I play with people on different parts of the spectrum,

816
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 3: you know, like in terms of politically and and trying

817
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,080
Speaker 3: to like remind people like who who we are and

818
00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 3: why we're here and and and I belong to a

819
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:08,360
Speaker 3: co op in in in park Slope. And part of

820
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 3: my favorite thing about it is that it reminds me

821
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,480
Speaker 3: how lucky, you know, like when when you're when you're

822
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 3: receiving groceries and you're like putting and putting them, like

823
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 3: moving the boxes and like separating things or whatever, like

824
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,800
Speaker 3: it's hard work. And I go in like it's almost

825
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 3: like a tourist, right like for for three hours, like

826
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 3: like ever every few weeks, and and and it's a

827
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 3: reminder of like, oh, these bodegas don't get stalked by themselves,

828
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 3: right like the the like we don't use like a

829
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 3: lot of the fresh delivery stuff, like because because you're

830
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 3: so removed from from like the actual work and the

831
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 3: people and and and and to me, it's like the

832
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,439
Speaker 3: other thing that's really I love about the co op

833
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 3: And my favorite thing is like there's a there's a

834
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 3: shelter near us, and part of the co op is

835
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 3: like taking the food over, but also like participating and

836
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:01,719
Speaker 3: like giving coffee to people in the mornings, and like

837
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 3: and queuing people up for forgetting meals and just remembering

838
00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 3: that all these people are human and and and that

839
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 3: they want meals. They're they're like struggling to like be there.

840
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 3: And it's just like there's so much awfulness in the

841
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,520
Speaker 3: world and and to realize at the end of the

842
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 3: day that there are all these people who are just

843
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 3: like trying to make their days work, their lives work,

844
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 3: you know, and really good people. It's just like it's

845
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 3: it's hard not to feel better about your day when

846
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 3: when you get to hand a couple of coffee to someone,

847
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 3: and and it's hard not to feel grateful for all

848
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:36,680
Speaker 3: the things you do have when when you see those.

849
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 2: Things, I have nothing to add to that. Thank you

850
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 2: so much.

851
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 3: That, so it's don't don't be ridiculous. I mean it's

852
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,879
Speaker 3: it's it's really really lovely to be here chatting with you.

853
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 3: I if you're ever coming through New York, please please

854
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,920
Speaker 3: hit me up honestly, like I mean that, and and uh,

855
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 3: and I really love your show and and I'm going

856
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 3: to keep evangelizing it.

857
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 2: So thank you so much.

858
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: So last thing, like you know with us, like plug

859
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 1: all the spots, plug, where can they find you? Where

860
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: can they find the shows? They're right what you're working on,

861
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 1: and then we'll let you go from here.

862
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:16,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, Will and I do a show called

863
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 3: Part Time Genius. It's basically like an excuse for us

864
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 3: to hang out the same way we used to hang

865
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 3: out in our dorm rooms in college. And so so

866
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 3: it's still really fun to do on Kaleidoscope. I think

867
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 3: your audience might like there's a show called Wild Chocolate,

868
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 3: which is basically like in Indiana Jones of Chocolate and

869
00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,399
Speaker 3: and it's uh, it's you know, science, but it's really

870
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 3: like an adventure story and so like I think they

871
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 3: might dig that.

872
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 2: That's dope. Yeah, so please.

873
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: Just go to the net, go to Kaleidoscope, Go to

874
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,760
Speaker 1: the network. There's so many dope shows there. The at again,

875
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,360
Speaker 1: the the twenty five most Important Science.

876
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 3: Years.

877
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: I'm begging y'all. I'm begging you to go listen to

878
00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: that series. Man, Thank you, thank you so much.

879
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 3: This is really delightful.

880
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 7: Thanks all right, all right, all.

881
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 1: Right, now, don't you hit stop on this pod. You

882
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: better listen to these credits. I need you to finish

883
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 1: this thing so I can get the download numbers. Okay,

884
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: so don't stop it yet, but listen. This was recorded

885
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 1: in East Lost Boyle Heights by your boy Propaganda. Tap

886
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 1: in with me at prop hip hop dot com. If

887
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Speaker 1: you're in the Coldbrew coffee we got Terraform Coldbrew. You

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Speaker 1: can go there dot com and use promo code hood

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Speaker 1: get twenty percent off.

890
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 2: Get yourself some coffee.

891
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 1: This was mixed, edited, and mastered by your boy Matt

892
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:04,120
Speaker 1: Alsowski killing the beat Softly. Check out his website Matdowsowski

893
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: dot com.

894
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 2: I'm a speller for you because I know m A T.

895
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 1: T O S O W s Ki dot com. Matdowsowski

896
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: dot com. He got more music and stuff like that

897
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: on there, so gonna check out. The heat Politics is

898
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:24,920
Speaker 1: a member of cool Zone Media. Executive produced by Sophie Lichterman,

899
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: part of the iHeartMedia podcast network. Your theme music and

900
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 1: scoring is also by the one and nobly matdow Sowski.

901
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: Still killing the beat softly, so listen. Don't let nobody

902
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,799
Speaker 1: lie to you. If you understand urban living, you understand politics.

903
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: These people is not smarter than you. We'll see y'all

904
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: next week.