Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news from the heart of
Speaker 1: where innovation, money and power collide in Silicon Valley and beyond.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow.
Speaker 2: Live from New York and San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 2: Coming up, Salesforce will acquire Informatica for eight billion dollars,
Speaker 2: one of the biggest ever deals with the company for
Speaker 2: the next phase to they I driven.
Speaker 3: Growth plus Apple shares coming off their longest selloff in
Speaker 3: more than three years.
Speaker 4: Is attacks from the White House escalate.
Speaker 2: And Elon Musk turns his attention back to his rocket
Speaker 2: company SpaceX and will lay out his vision to all
Speaker 2: in an ex line stream later today. But first we
Speaker 2: check it on the markets. Ed, we're a kind of
Speaker 2: rocketing higher on this space as well. We're currently up
Speaker 2: one point eight percent, let's call it on the NASA
Speaker 2: one hundred. You're seeing strength as consumer sentiment manages to
Speaker 2: show some encouragement as we see maybe encouragement when it
Speaker 2: comes to US and European trade talks. And it's game
Speaker 2: on after what was a down week last week. But
Speaker 2: you'll look at some of the biggest movers in the index.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have a deal, and that deal is between
Speaker 3: Salesforce and the cloud data management platform, Informatica, eight billion
Speaker 3: dollar deal.
Speaker 4: As you said, twenty five.
Speaker 3: Dollars per share going to Informatica and Salesforce saying that
Speaker 3: they're going to use a combination of cash and some
Speaker 3: debt to finance the deal.
Speaker 4: But this is kind of interesting. It's a second bite
Speaker 4: of the apple.
Speaker 3: Informatica now twenty three dollars eighty cents in the session,
Speaker 3: confirmation of earlier Bloomberg reporting. A lot more to learn
Speaker 3: about what happened, not just in the last few days,
Speaker 3: but in the last year exactly.
Speaker 2: And let's get to someone who helped break this scube
Speaker 2: on Friday, Leanna Baker. It was a Friday story when
Speaker 2: it comes to this round of.
Speaker 5: Em and a.
Speaker 2: But of course Salesforce had I di Informatica a year ago.
Speaker 6: We've been tracking it also since the deal fell apart.
Speaker 6: But once you have a deal, you know, get scuttled
Speaker 6: and not happen. You have to be really sure that
Speaker 6: it's going to happen. So late Friday we heard that
Speaker 6: this could be coming, you know, as early as this week,
Speaker 6: and we sort of went for it here and we
Speaker 6: were trying to understand what a change for Salesforce. Well,
Speaker 6: for sure, what's changed is that they're paying two billion
Speaker 6: dollars less than they were a year ago, So they
Speaker 6: definitely look smart in that respect.
Speaker 3: Right a year ago informatic Well, what changed for Informatica
Speaker 3: is it shares were above thirty dollars a year ago.
Speaker 4: And when we broke the.
Speaker 3: Story Friday, I think it was somewhere around twenty dollars
Speaker 3: or so. How Salesforce is funding this, the sort of
Speaker 3: mechanics of the deal, Salesforce's history of EM and A,
Speaker 3: how much of this was surprising to the team.
Speaker 6: So Salesforce is sort of a juggernau An M and A.
Speaker 6: They came in the crosshairs of activists investors a few
Speaker 6: years ago. Both of you covered that really closely, where
Speaker 6: Benioff's A position strategy was under the spotlight. So he
Speaker 6: sort of took a breather for a few years, and
Speaker 6: here he's back in a big way with this eight
Speaker 6: billion dollar acquisition. You might recall in the fall we
Speaker 6: broke another story Salesforce pot Own, which is a smaller
Speaker 6: deal at one point nine billion. So Salesforce still has
Speaker 6: been doing deals, but you know, this is the largest
Speaker 6: in a while. Historically Slacked was larger, and they also
Speaker 6: did Tableau software many years ago. So this is a
Speaker 6: company that just loves inorganic growth and it's back on
Speaker 6: track in terms of getting those deals.
Speaker 2: I mean they also bought MuleSoft, which of course actually
Speaker 2: competes with Informatica. So how is the regulatory process going
Speaker 2: to look?
Speaker 6: So analysts are watching this overlap between the companies. It'll
Speaker 6: definitely be a test to see how Salesforce and Marke
Speaker 6: betting off or maybe viewed under this administration. So we'll
Speaker 6: be tracking that closely. But for what we understand, they
Speaker 6: got this deal done. It didn't stop them from getting
Speaker 6: it announced, and we'll see what comes next.
Speaker 3: Bloombergsianna Baker, who leads our deal's team, Thank you very much.
Speaker 3: It's get some markets reaction and a head of market
Speaker 3: analysis at RBC bre In Dolphin. It's an interesting headline, right, Janet,
Speaker 3: we have some M and A in the software space
Speaker 3: just as a moment in time. How do you see
Speaker 3: that playing out more broadly for SaaS and software corners
Speaker 3: of the tech market.
Speaker 7: Hi Ed thanks for having me. I think that's very exciting.
Speaker 8: I think AI is still driving a lot of these
Speaker 8: excitement and what we are looking is that there's some
Speaker 8: more consolidation in the industry.
Speaker 7: I think our companies want to deepen.
Speaker 8: And strengthen their capability in AI driven growth in our
Speaker 8: data analytics and CRR management, and also developing further in
Speaker 8: the cloud. So I guess this is a very exciting
Speaker 8: and sort of builds up further the case for that
Speaker 8: long term AI investment.
Speaker 3: I'm just looking at shares of Nvidia. They're up now
Speaker 3: three percent in the session. The macro event of the week,
Speaker 3: the macro event, it's probably in Video's earnings after the
Speaker 3: market closed on Wednesday night on your desk for your
Speaker 3: clients in your world. Is it a macro level event
Speaker 3: something like in video earnings.
Speaker 8: Yeah, definitely. I think everyone is very excited about it.
Speaker 8: I think what we'll be looking at is definitely the
Speaker 8: profit margins. It is getting harder and harder to defend,
Speaker 8: and also, of course the rampop of Blackwell and how
Speaker 8: the servers data services are basically digesting the inventores and
Speaker 8: also sovereign AI.
Speaker 7: I think that's a very important tailwind.
Speaker 8: For Nvidia in the future, and I think, of course
Speaker 8: commentaries on the geopolitic situation sells to China and things
Speaker 8: like that.
Speaker 7: And also I think.
Speaker 8: In general, I think the valuations of Nvidia is not
Speaker 8: demanding at all.
Speaker 7: It's only twenty five times for earnings.
Speaker 8: But I think I guess the market is still having
Speaker 8: doubts on the digestion of those AI chips, given that
Speaker 8: the hyperscalers have already spent hundreds billions of dollars and
Speaker 8: how much of that sovereign AI and stargate is going
Speaker 8: to compensate for that, And I think we're still in
Speaker 8: this digestion phase. So it'll be very interesting to hear
Speaker 8: how the executives are going to comment on that.
Speaker 2: So do you need to hear that bullishness, that ultimate
Speaker 2: demand being pushed forward and really enthusiastic guidance coming from
Speaker 2: Jensen to build around the AI theme once again outweighing
Speaker 2: what has been geopolitics that weighs down on some of
Speaker 2: these hardware names.
Speaker 8: I think, so, I think we actually need to see
Speaker 8: a pretty bullish guidance. The problem is that the stock
Speaker 8: has risen I think about forty percent since slow and
Speaker 8: to get even high to break the previous high. I
Speaker 8: think we need more good deals. And as I said,
Speaker 8: there's still a lot of concerns on geopolitics. I mean
Speaker 8: President Trump has canceled that aidefield and rule, but for
Speaker 8: sure if something else is coming. So I guess there's
Speaker 8: still a lot of concern on the competitive landscape. China
Speaker 8: is very close behind, you know. I guess we need
Speaker 8: a lot of good news for the share prices to
Speaker 8: power ahead.
Speaker 2: And just take stock for a moment of the on
Speaker 2: flought of headwinds we've had from a geopolitical nature. We're
Speaker 2: about to dig into Apple. Of course the tariff anxiety there,
Speaker 2: but also the tip for tap that might come back
Speaker 2: if Europe does indeed have its eye on big tech
Speaker 2: in terms of yet more digital services taxes. Ways to respond, Janet,
Speaker 2: how hard is it to invest in big tech big
Speaker 2: US names at the moment?
Speaker 7: To be honest, I think the long term story is intact.
Speaker 8: I think these are great growth compounders that I don't
Speaker 8: think people are doubtful of their potential and their long
Speaker 8: term growth. But the problem is that in near term
Speaker 8: there's still so much uncertainty on a tariff and I
Speaker 8: think even if the tariffs are scaling back or pause
Speaker 8: or whatever, I think at the end of the day,
Speaker 8: some of these big tech companies that are highly linked
Speaker 8: in the supply chains will still see some erosion in.
Speaker 7: Their profit margin. Right, So I guess that's the concern.
Speaker 8: And the thing is they're already very big and it
Speaker 8: is very hard to grow at such a fast pace
Speaker 8: going forward. So I guess given the valuations have come
Speaker 8: back up again after the recent valley, I guess investors
Speaker 8: are going to be back in a more cautious mode
Speaker 8: going forward.
Speaker 7: We need more good news. We need our trade US.
Speaker 8: We will need more AI good news, we need more
Speaker 8: better economic.
Speaker 7: Data from the US and lower inflation.
Speaker 3: For example, Janet, is there a corner of the technology
Speaker 3: sector that's underappreciated by the market.
Speaker 7: I think, I mean for US.
Speaker 8: Right, we are more enthusiastic on the AI pets and
Speaker 8: shovels play. But as I said, I think the recent
Speaker 8: rally has moved back up some of those valuations. I
Speaker 8: think software remains a good place to be given that
Speaker 8: it is arguably less impacted by tariff and I think
Speaker 8: there's still a lot of innovation going on. I think
Speaker 8: I think some of the share price movement in big
Speaker 8: tech companies, for example, Apple has been quite negative, and
Speaker 8: I think obviously it is impacted by geopolitics and tariffs,
Speaker 8: but I guess investors are also looking for some new innovation,
Speaker 8: new products, pipelines and things like that, like new features
Speaker 8: on AI.
Speaker 7: I think in April were able to deliver that.
Speaker 8: I think that can offset some of that worries and
Speaker 8: may potentially recover from the recent negative share price reaction.
Speaker 2: We're going to be digging into that, but a moment,
Speaker 2: a little bit more on Apple January. Obviously, Ruandolphin head
Speaker 2: a market analysis thank you coming up, as they say,
Speaker 2: well after a list getting a bit of a reprieve
Speaker 2: after its longest sell off we've seen in more than
Speaker 2: three years. But Trump's tas threats could introduce more volatility.
Speaker 2: I can discuss that in a moment. But ed, we've
Speaker 2: got some breaking news on moving Trump Media.
Speaker 3: Yeah, did you see DJT, the parent company of Truth Social.
Speaker 3: So the stocks down more than nine percent the news
Speaker 3: it's a pretty simple story. Trump Media is going to
Speaker 3: raise two and a half billion US dollars in capital
Speaker 3: to buy bitcoin.
Speaker 4: There was some tropy trading I think.
Speaker 3: We opened markedly higher, we are now very much down
Speaker 3: more than nine percent.
Speaker 4: We'll continue to track that story.
Speaker 9: Carro.
Speaker 3: This is plumbag technology. Take a look at shares of Apple,
Speaker 3: the tech giant finally in the green after eight straight
Speaker 3: days of losses. Still, Apple remains the mag seven's worst
Speaker 3: performing stock in twenty twenty five, having fallen twenty one
Speaker 3: percent so far.
Speaker 4: Yeah, todate Bluembos.
Speaker 3: Ryan for Seneca writes today the iPhone maker faces still
Speaker 3: more pain, and he joins us. Now, Ryan, where is
Speaker 3: that pain coming from from the stalks perspective?
Speaker 10: Hey, thanks for having me on so obviously, last week
Speaker 10: we got the surprise announcement about tariffs specifically on Apple
Speaker 10: if it doesn't bring its manufacturing to the United States.
Speaker 10: This was later expanded to include all smartphone makers. But
Speaker 10: I think just the level of political uncertainty remains extremely
Speaker 10: elevated for Apple. Obviously, we saw so much volatility following
Speaker 10: the initial tariff announcement in April.
Speaker 5: There was then, you know.
Speaker 10: Exemptions provided for a certain electronics category, a sort of
Speaker 10: a pause.
Speaker 5: With respect to China.
Speaker 10: We saw another tariffs against the European Union, which were
Speaker 10: also paused. So just the back and forth really has
Speaker 10: investors and analysts struggling to kind of figure out what
Speaker 10: is the impact that Apple going to be, how do
Speaker 10: they navigate this kind of environment, and what is going
Speaker 10: to be the sort of knock on effects with respects
Speaker 10: to its earnings, its margins, with the demand, with pricing.
Speaker 10: Still a lot of very fundamental questions surrounding the company
Speaker 10: right now.
Speaker 2: What's so interesting is we had Gil Luria on the
Speaker 2: show last week really talking from DA Davison Analysis, saying
Speaker 2: it's surprised at how poorly Tim Cook seems to be
Speaker 2: navigating this on a political perspective, but also there's so
Speaker 2: many other headwinds that are boveting the company right now.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 10: They've already been struggling with their AI offerings. Growth has
Speaker 10: been pretty tepid, especially world up to other megacap companies
Speaker 10: for quite some time. The multiple remains sort of at
Speaker 10: the higher end of things. There are a lot of
Speaker 10: issues that have investors kind of looking around and saying,
Speaker 10: if you're going to buy a big tech company, what
Speaker 10: is really the argument for owning Apple over other ones
Speaker 10: that offer stronger growth or all over multiple or a
Speaker 10: stronger AI position. Or they don't come with this kind
Speaker 10: of political risk. So certainly all the sort of headwinds
Speaker 10: are stacked up against Apple in a way that they
Speaker 10: are not for the other megacap tech stocks.
Speaker 3: Set the scene for US then year to date for
Speaker 3: the mag seven Apples down twenty one percent. But what
Speaker 3: does the rest of the field look like you cover
Speaker 3: each of these names.
Speaker 4: Other names are doing pretty well.
Speaker 10: There's been obviously a great deal of volatility, but some
Speaker 10: names have recently broken back into the green for the year.
Speaker 10: I mean, I think a lot of these companies continue
Speaker 10: to have a lot of really you know, adamant supporters.
Speaker 10: They are still well liked on Wall Street. The most
Speaker 10: recent earning season showed pretty durable growth trends. A lot
Speaker 10: of them deal in market positions that don't have too
Speaker 10: much tariff impact, like software or just internet services, online advertising.
Speaker 10: You know, there's some sort of second derivative move if
Speaker 10: you consider the impact to just economic growth and so forth.
Speaker 10: But otherwise the names are doing pretty well. Apple is
Speaker 10: really an outlier here, and the only one that's pretty
Speaker 10: close to it is Tesla, although I think I checked
Speaker 10: this morning and that stock is down about thirteen percent
Speaker 10: or so. This year, so the degree to which that
Speaker 10: one is even lacking is far lower.
Speaker 2: Ran, Sorry, Ran Plastelica, It's great to have you. Or
Speaker 2: is some really well read stories, We appreciate it. Let's
Speaker 2: just go back to the nuts and bolts of the
Speaker 2: Apple story with Karenina and Anasy just create a strategies
Speaker 2: president and principle analyst and going back to well the
Speaker 2: torrent of truth social posts that were out on Friday
Speaker 2: first focused on Apple, but then spreading their way. It
Speaker 2: would feel from Trump that all foreign made smartphones would
Speaker 2: potentially be looking at a twenty five percent tariff, does
Speaker 2: happen in some way end up having an edge in that.
Speaker 11: You know, the phone is still the most valued device
Speaker 11: that consumers are caring and so hitting on smartphones when
Speaker 11: initially Trumpets said that they were going to be exempt,
Speaker 11: is going to be you know, hard for everybody. If
Speaker 11: you're looking at the US market, Samsung and Apple are
Speaker 11: dominating the market and so having tariffs apply to Samsung
Speaker 11: as well, who will have limited availability to make devices
Speaker 11: here in the US, is going to be hard for Apple.
Speaker 11: Is all about juggling the short term and the longer
Speaker 11: term prospect, trying to balance not upsetting the president for
Speaker 11: above say, time, not upsetting China either because it's a
Speaker 11: big market for them as well.
Speaker 2: And India where they've been shifting manufacturing currently. Not What
Speaker 2: does Tim Cook do to satisfy all players right now?
Speaker 11: I think buying time is probably his best option, and
Speaker 11: so making whatever promise he can make of investing in
Speaker 11: the US. Obviously, if you're thinking about repositioning the production
Speaker 11: here in the US, we're talking way further than the
Speaker 11: term that term is going to be serving, and so
Speaker 11: buying time for the next two to three years might
Speaker 11: be all that is needed for now.
Speaker 3: The way that Tim could it Tim Cook put it
Speaker 3: in twenty seventeen, I think it was on stage with
Speaker 3: Fortune magazine, is that in China you could fill a
Speaker 3: football stadium with specialist tooling engineers, and in America you
Speaker 3: couldn't fill a room, a meeting room with that same
Speaker 3: level of skill set. You know all about vertical integration
Speaker 3: and how the iPhone is assembled and all different hands
Speaker 3: that touch one handset. Just try and help our audience
Speaker 3: understand what it would mean not to move an iPhone
Speaker 3: factory to America, but everything else that comes with it.
Speaker 11: That is what is impossible to do. I mean moving
Speaker 11: the supply chain and then food production here is really
Speaker 11: impossible unless you're willing to invest, and not just from
Speaker 11: an Apple perspective, but from a government perspective. You know,
Speaker 11: billions of dollars in replicating this and investing ten plus
Speaker 11: years to do so. I think what you can aspire
Speaker 11: to do is, you know, an assembled in America the
Speaker 11: same way as you have designed in Cupertino on the
Speaker 11: back of a device. That is the short term hope.
Speaker 11: You know, everything else is really more a fairy tale.
Speaker 3: Apple shares fell last week when a headline crossed the
Speaker 3: Bloomberg terminal the Open AI was buying Johnny Ives hardware
Speaker 3: startup io for six point five billion dollars to make
Speaker 3: a suite of devices.
Speaker 4: Your action, please, Carolina Milanacy.
Speaker 11: You know that is definitely pressure that right now Apple
Speaker 11: could do without. You know, they have Apple Vision pro
Speaker 11: very successful in enterprise from an interest perspective, not necessarily
Speaker 11: a volume perspective, but hasn't really hit consumers for a
Speaker 11: range of things from the price point to the ecosystem.
Speaker 11: So hearing you know somebody that has worked for Apple
Speaker 11: so closely and maybe didn't leave on best terms coming
Speaker 11: with open AI. So you're bringing together daisore point for
Speaker 11: Apple right now with Apple Intelligence plus a competition from
Speaker 11: a glass or you know, some kind of XRAR play.
Speaker 11: Definitely not a good moment for Apple.
Speaker 2: Not a good moment, but only for cell ratings. On
Speaker 2: the stock, it's still very close to a three trillion
Speaker 2: dollar company. Can they swiftly turn things around? Nay, we
Speaker 2: galvanized growth here, Carolina.
Speaker 11: I do think that we are going to have some
Speaker 11: of the answer in a couple of weeks at WDC,
Speaker 11: when we're going to see possibly like Mark German was
Speaker 11: reporting a redesign from an OS perspective Beth for iPhone,
Speaker 11: watch a Mac, but also hearing awfully some improvement on
Speaker 11: the or some development on the Apple intelligence part. I
Speaker 11: think ultimately Apple is still from a vendor perspective, from
Speaker 11: a consumer point of view, the one that has the
Speaker 11: strongest ecosystem and that can tie in consumers both from
Speaker 11: a services perspective and hardware. And I think that the
Speaker 11: point that is getting people scratching their heads right now
Speaker 11: is how long it's been taken from an Apple intelligence perspective.
Speaker 11: But I still believe that ultimately are they have all
Speaker 11: the pieces that can come together to really continue to
Speaker 11: develop their ecosystem wrong way and police of their customers curly.
Speaker 4: In a millienacy of creative strategy. It's great to have
Speaker 4: you back here on Bloomberg Technology. Thank you know. Coming up, Mark.
Speaker 3: Zuckerberg's effort to get close with President Trump have given
Speaker 3: him direct access to the White House.
Speaker 4: But what's that actually done for his company? We have
Speaker 4: more on that next. This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 3: Mark Zuckerberg's efforts to win over Maga World have brought
Speaker 3: the Meta CEO close to the President Trump and his administration,
Speaker 3: But according to the latest Bloomberg Big Take, Zark's efforts
Speaker 3: have yet to bear significant fruit for the social media company.
Speaker 3: Joining us with more is Bloomberg's Riley Griffin, one of
Speaker 3: the authors of that big Take. It's so deeply reported
Speaker 3: and it's to look at how Mark Zuckerberg has almost
Speaker 3: like changed himself over a period of time to kind
Speaker 3: of align with this administration. But the conclusion of the
Speaker 3: piece is that for Meta, it's not yet opened any
Speaker 3: doors in a way that helps the company's profile.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 12: My colleague Kurt Wagner and I spoke with more than
Speaker 12: fifty people for this story, which spans several decades really,
Speaker 12: and what we found is that the efforts to pivot
Speaker 12: towards Trump and his administration have not yet borne the
Speaker 12: fruit that the company so desires. And one of the
Speaker 12: case in points of that strategy, and it's perhaps failing
Speaker 12: so far, has been Mark Zuckerberg's attempts to end the
Speaker 12: FTC trial that you and I have spoken so often
Speaker 12: about Ed Mark Zuckerberg ended up taking the stand, but
Speaker 12: that was one of the moments that might show some
Speaker 12: of the weakness of this strategy.
Speaker 2: I love going through the piece the frequent flier visualizations
Speaker 2: of how often he's on his plane trying to go
Speaker 2: back and forth to Washington. But also what stunned me
Speaker 2: was just how little respect ultimately it seemed that previous
Speaker 2: President Biden had for Mark Zuckerberg and also many for Metta.
Speaker 12: Yes, that was one of the most interesting lines of
Speaker 12: reporting for me too, Caroline. What we found was that
Speaker 12: the Biden administration did not have a productive relationship with
Speaker 12: Meta over years, and that President Biden himself, even dating
Speaker 12: back to when he was a vice president, was incredibly
Speaker 12: skeptical of the social media giant, and Mark Zuckerberg personally.
Speaker 12: We learned that you called him behind closed doors little TOWRP,
Speaker 12: among other perhaps more colorful terms. And this really came
Speaker 12: to a head during the COVID nineteen pandemic as misinformation spread.
Speaker 12: There was that notable moment where Joe Biden, President Joe
Speaker 12: Biden called Meta, said Meta was killing people as it
Speaker 12: was spreading misinformation online.
Speaker 4: Hey, real quick, how's morale inside Meta? Right now?
Speaker 3: You learn very quickly in Silicon Valley that a company's
Speaker 3: figurehead doesn't necessarily reflect its workforce.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 12: Well, Meta is full of tens of thousands of employees,
Speaker 12: so obviously there's a wide range. But what we've found
Speaker 12: is that a lot of employees are really discontent with
Speaker 12: this approach. They're holding secret book clubs to talk about
Speaker 12: Sarah wyn Williams memoir Careless People, they are having wellness checks.
Speaker 12: Many folks have believed that Meta had done layoffs in
Speaker 12: an effort to quell descent. The company obviously denies that claim,
Speaker 12: but it's sour inside the company.
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Roley Griffin, it's a very long piece. I heard.
Speaker 2: You should go and read it. Some deep dives there
Speaker 2: coming up. Cutting the cost of satellite manufacturing. What I
Speaker 2: Founders Fund is doubling down on demand in the space
Speaker 2: sector for its latest investment in Indurosat. This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to bloom Bag Technology and Caroline Hide in
Speaker 2: New York.
Speaker 3: Now I met love Low in San Francisco. Some momentum
Speaker 3: in the market's character.
Speaker 2: Certainly is when it comes to stocks. Just check out
Speaker 2: what's happening on the NASDAG best days. It's about mid May.
Speaker 2: We are hired by the tune of two percent. In fact,
Speaker 2: only four stocks of this major benchmark are actually in
Speaker 2: the red. What's the moon music about? Is about macro.
Speaker 2: It's about consumer sentiment looking better. It's about the bond
Speaker 2: market looking a little bit calmer. Is about, of course,
Speaker 2: that key macro event that is in Vidio's numbers, coming
Speaker 2: as soon as tomorrow. But I'm also looking at Bitcoin
Speaker 2: actually not catching that upward draft. It's interesting one hundred
Speaker 2: and nine thousand. Look, we still need those all time highs,
Speaker 2: but it's notable that we haven't followed stocks higher. Move on,
Speaker 2: and though have a look at what ectes are doing
Speaker 2: in response to a bitcoin play. Everyone wants to be
Speaker 2: Michael Saler nowadays, the strategy strategy being born out with Trump,
Speaker 2: the DJT take care as it's known Trump media, they're
Speaker 2: going to be selling stock to buy bitcoin. It spends
Speaker 2: it lower by eleven percent of the moment. But I'm
Speaker 2: looking at pdd woful, the worst performing the nasat one hundred.
Speaker 2: This is, of course the owner of Timu. What it
Speaker 2: looks as though, of course, geopolitics trade anxiety plays out
Speaker 2: with profit tumbling some forty seven percent ed, but notably
Speaker 2: no future path that looks pretty. They have to invest
Speaker 2: to change up the business model at all.
Speaker 3: Right, let's go from public markets to private markets and
Speaker 3: head to space. Bulgarian satellite manufacturer in Durosat has announced
Speaker 3: it's raised forty three million euros that's around forty nine
Speaker 3: million US dollars. This latest funning round was there by
Speaker 3: Peter Teal's Founder's fund, delighted to bring in in Durosat
Speaker 3: CEO Right Rychev and founders fun partner Delian Asparov, who
Speaker 3: join us from Sofia, Bulgaria's capital. And I'll start with you.
Speaker 3: You have managed to change the way that satellites are
Speaker 3: manufactured and also how profitable that business is. So why
Speaker 3: do you need to raise this money. What are you
Speaker 3: going to do to expand your production of those next
Speaker 3: gen satellites?
Speaker 13: Yeah, so, first of all, we didn't believe that there
Speaker 13: will be a part of them shifting the way that
Speaker 13: humanity builds the next future infrastructures in space, which in
Speaker 13: a simple thums means, how do we put multiple new
Speaker 13: sensors like cameras, traders, navigation systems of the future as
Speaker 13: fast as humanly possible to orbit? And how do we
Speaker 13: objectively lower the data to cost as little as one
Speaker 13: door per gigabyte of any type of space data. And
Speaker 13: the way that we approach this problem is basically trying
Speaker 13: to our best to build a satellite that was from
Speaker 13: day one designs for manufacturing, which is very unusual in
Speaker 13: a traditionally very hardware centric industry where everyone is usually
Speaker 13: building tailor made solutions for every individual missions.
Speaker 4: We believe that's the way to go.
Speaker 13: We have leveraged a lot of our experience in the
Speaker 13: region of the center Eastern Europe concerning automotive designs, medical
Speaker 13: robotic industries, and we have tried our best to embed
Speaker 13: those into the satellite design.
Speaker 3: Tellian, you are Bulgarian and I know this is a
Speaker 3: really big moment view and important to you. You see
Speaker 3: in Duro sat As being to Bulgaria almost like what
Speaker 3: TSMC is to Taiwan.
Speaker 4: Just explain your pieces there.
Speaker 14: Yeah, I mean, obviously, as being a native of the country,
Speaker 14: I had a predisposition to you know, sort of find
Speaker 14: an investment here for a long time, but only if
Speaker 14: it met the sort of standard you know, founder's fund
Speaker 14: the bar and as you know ed, we've been a
Speaker 14: big investor in a ton of the you know, leading
Speaker 14: aerospace companies everything obviously from behemoths like SpaceX, where we
Speaker 14: were early and consistent backer, but also in some of
Speaker 14: the next generation you know sort of companies that are
Speaker 14: coming up, you.
Speaker 5: Know, Impulse led by Tom Muller.
Speaker 14: Varda, the company that I incubated, hadrian focus on automated
Speaker 14: CNC manufacturing.
Speaker 5: But one of the core thesis.
Speaker 14: That we wanted to you know, sort of focus on
Speaker 14: as we see this you know, sort of explosion in
Speaker 14: the industry was somebody that was focused on you know,
Speaker 14: mass manufacturing of satellites, but in a way that more
Speaker 14: closely resembles you know, you were talking about Apple early
Speaker 14: on the show, something that looks more like a consumer electronics,
Speaker 14: Apple manufacturing line. Then how the vast majority of satellites,
Speaker 14: even STARTLINGK satellites are assembled today, which is very tailored,
Speaker 14: one off, super custom made. If you look at the
Speaker 14: you know, sort of average American satellite in terms of
Speaker 14: its overlap with the autumn motive consumer electronics for medical industries,
Speaker 14: there's very little. And so for a long time I'd
Speaker 14: kind of given up on the thesis of actually being
Speaker 14: able to invest in somebody in this category. The thesis
Speaker 14: was always find somebody that's like the you know, sort
Speaker 14: of Dell for satellites.
Speaker 5: But you know, I'd been.
Speaker 14: Catching up with Reicho and in Daro SAT for several years,
Speaker 14: and you know, he had very little funding to get
Speaker 14: going on the company, and so he had to use
Speaker 14: some of these more consumer electronics automotive supply chains to
Speaker 14: build up his satellites and steadily made.
Speaker 5: Them bigger and bigger.
Speaker 14: Revenues got bigger and bigger, to the point where in
Speaker 14: Q four of last year, even though I'd always had
Speaker 14: this sort of you know, negative bias towards Bulgaryus, I
Speaker 14: was like, God, if I tell Peter that he hired
Speaker 14: a Bulgarian and he wants to invest in a Bulgarian company.
Speaker 5: He's going to kick me out of the room.
Speaker 14: Obviously, he's going to say, you know, del you're crazy.
Speaker 14: But at some point, the numbers, the quality of the technology,
Speaker 14: the culture of the team, the fact that they've you know,
Speaker 14: invested into the local university programs to start to train
Speaker 14: their own next generation talent.
Speaker 5: That's what I mean when I talk about, you know, sort.
Speaker 14: Of the TSMC of Bulgaria, where it's both this national
Speaker 14: jewel in this very technologically you sort of forward sector,
Speaker 14: but deeply integrated in the society. The point where you know,
Speaker 14: if you're a fifteen year old Bulgarian, you know your
Speaker 14: physics is your computer engineer, mechanical engineer. All you can
Speaker 14: dream is the daily graduate university and getting it the
Speaker 14: go work from right jail.
Speaker 2: So right show. We hear about the thesis. We know
Speaker 2: that the revenue is are climbing, but how can you
Speaker 2: be like Apple in terms of profitability, in terms of margin?
Speaker 2: How profitable are you?
Speaker 13: Well, there is a lot of components in achieving profitability.
Speaker 13: I'm happy to say that we went on the market
Speaker 13: selling satellites in early twenty eighteen and we became profitable
Speaker 13: that same year, which usually never happens for a space company.
Speaker 4: Usually they need like a.
Speaker 5: Decade at best.
Speaker 13: And ever since, our business grows between two and three
Speaker 13: times zero over in terms of revenue, and every single
Speaker 13: line of our business today has an average gross margin
Speaker 13: between seventy seventy five and seventy seven percent. So I
Speaker 13: think we're pretty close to those type of metrics. But again,
Speaker 13: we are all only focused on the challenges that we
Speaker 13: really want to bring the industry to a completely new
Speaker 13: level and scale. And I believe honestly, at the end
Speaker 13: of the day, the attentive still the products and the
Speaker 13: execution of the team would leads to anyway immense market opportunity.
Speaker 13: And this is what we're hoping to achieve with our
Speaker 13: new inclobal partners from Founders Fund.
Speaker 2: And those partners Delian Can they be other of your investments?
Speaker 2: Just thinking of SpaceX as you mentioned Varda, which of
Speaker 2: course a precedent of how much are you going to
Speaker 2: turn to in durosap for your equipment?
Speaker 14: Yeah, I mean, look, as you know, we're you know,
Speaker 14: sort of looking at the next generation vehicles across the portfolio.
Speaker 5: If you just look at the economics of what right
Speaker 5: show is offering.
Speaker 14: It is just vastly differentiated relative to anything that you
Speaker 14: can find either in the European or the American market.
Speaker 14: Right if you think about the sort of traditional aerospace suppliers,
Speaker 14: think folks like you know, Airbus, Raytheon, Lockheed Martin, Blue
Speaker 14: Canyon Space Systems.
Speaker 5: All of their components are these things that are based.
Speaker 14: Off of like nineteen seventy technologies that have been ever
Speaker 14: so slowly iterated on. And there is benefit to that
Speaker 14: that they have flight heritage, but there's so much stuck
Speaker 14: and not able to take that sort of monumental leap forward.
Speaker 5: So I won't comment on the specific companies, but I can.
Speaker 14: Already is part of how I got alerted to Endurero
Speaker 14: was because we already had a significant amount of the
Speaker 14: founder's fund portfolio and some of the broader Silicon Valley
Speaker 14: funded Defense, TAC and you know space startups already as
Speaker 14: customers of his. You know, as I started to analyze everyone,
Speaker 14: I realized there was an arms dealer, there was a
Speaker 14: Dell for satellites already. It just happened to be this
Speaker 14: Bulgarian company that you know, for a long time, I
Speaker 14: just wasn't sure that I could take seriously, you know,
Speaker 14: given that I knew that I had this predisposition towards Bulgaria, and.
Speaker 5: To have these margins that we're.
Speaker 14: Talking about, I mean the fact that you can build
Speaker 14: a space company profitably, growing quickly at seventy plus percent margins.
Speaker 5: I mean, those are the things that you see in.
Speaker 14: You know, sort of consumer electronics behemoths like Apple. But
Speaker 14: if you look at the like average American aerospace or
Speaker 14: defense company, these are all like you know, best case
Speaker 14: twenty thirty percent margins, burning hundreds of millions of dollars
Speaker 14: before they ever get to any semblance of profitability. And
Speaker 14: all of these things never get to this level of margin.
Speaker 14: This is why when you look at everything from Planet
Speaker 14: Labs to Maxar to Iridium, all these companies that you
Speaker 14: know operate in the satellite world, they never trade above
Speaker 14: like three x revenues because there's no growth manager profitability.
Speaker 14: When you look at the right righteous business insane, the
Speaker 14: ce these metrics, you almost look like a traditional Silk
Speaker 14: and Valley SaaS company in terms of margin and growth.
Speaker 3: Right, let me ask you this to finish, what's your
Speaker 3: strategy for manufacturing in the United States in the future.
Speaker 13: I'm proud to say that the majority of our business
Speaker 13: is already in US and we are heavily involved in
Speaker 13: supporting the local ecosystem. We have quite advanced team in Denver.
Speaker 13: Already we are assembling and operating satellites.
Speaker 5: For our US customer based from US.
Speaker 13: So I really consider that there is no such dramatic
Speaker 13: difference between what we do in Bulgaria and in Europe
Speaker 13: and generally and what we are planning to do even
Speaker 13: expand for the US. Just to give you the context,
Speaker 13: we have already invested significant amounts millions just starting last year,
Speaker 13: way before there was this tension that drived between the
Speaker 13: two continents, and I think this extension is will be
Speaker 13: very healthy for our business. I mean, we need to
Speaker 13: learn how to do local stuff better than anyone else.
Speaker 13: We need to empower the local ecosystem.
Speaker 5: And I think we also.
Speaker 13: Bring the knowledge and don't know how and a little
Speaker 13: bit of innovation that will be very healthy for the
Speaker 13: US marketing journal.
Speaker 2: Right ol Rachel CEO of Jurosat dellian Asparov, partner at
Speaker 2: Founder's Fund. We appreciate your time. Thank you both from Sophia,
Speaker 2: Bulgaria coming up a new company started by the founder
Speaker 2: of quantum computing firm Righetti. They aims to use quantum
Speaker 2: to address cost and energy bottlenecks in scaling AI.
Speaker 15: That's next, there's a Bloomberg technology.
Speaker 3: The name Chad Brigghetti may be familiar to those in
Speaker 3: the quantum computing world. Now, the quantum computer entrepreneur and
Speaker 3: physicist is launching a new company called Signaldry. It aims
Speaker 3: to use quantum to address cost and energy bottomnecks that
Speaker 3: are associated with AI. Delight to say, Chabrighetti joins us. Now,
Speaker 3: I think we will get to the backstory of your
Speaker 3: involvement in the earlier days of this industry. But what
Speaker 3: is the objective of the new company and what is
Speaker 3: different about the new company's technology?
Speaker 16: HI great to be here today.
Speaker 17: Signtry is building quantum accelerated AI servers to exponentially speed
Speaker 17: up training.
Speaker 16: And inference for these large models.
Speaker 17: As you've heard about, there's growing energy requirements, power requirements
Speaker 17: that are very challenging to meet, and there's growing costs
Speaker 17: for training new models, and ultimately quantum can provide a
Speaker 17: solution to that with these exponential speed ups. In the
Speaker 17: last few years, there's been new algorithms developed that can
Speaker 17: exponentially speed up things like stochastic gradient descent or low
Speaker 17: rank adaptation that are critical for training and inference in
Speaker 17: large models, and really bring in about the accessibility, affordability,
Speaker 17: and sustainability of true widespread adoption of AI.
Speaker 3: We were recently at Nvidia gtc's Quantum Day. We did
Speaker 3: a special show where many sort of the leaders in
Speaker 3: this field joined us and kind of what struck me
Speaker 3: is they all sat there on stage with Daco Jensen
Speaker 3: Wang is how many companies are working on this, how
Speaker 3: many publicly traded companies. And I give you that preamble
Speaker 3: to ask, why do we need a new company focused
Speaker 3: on this task? Why can the technology been developed by
Speaker 3: all these others, including the namesay company founded, not crack
Speaker 3: it themselves.
Speaker 17: It's a great question and I've thought about that as well,
Speaker 17: and ultimately that led me to starting Signaltry with my
Speaker 17: co founder Adelia Friedsen, who also worked with me at
Speaker 17: Righetti and helping the company public in twenty twenty two. Ultimately,
Speaker 17: all of these companies that are out there today are
Speaker 17: making tremendous progress. There's been tremendous advancement just in the
Speaker 17: last three years alone, new CUBA types like neutral atoms
Speaker 17: and photonics have you know, you know, advanced as much
Speaker 17: or even more.
Speaker 16: Than supermarket and cubits have.
Speaker 17: And ultimately what we see is an opportunity to combine
Speaker 17: these different modalities within a single fault tolerant architecture.
Speaker 16: And we thought about, you know, and then on the.
Speaker 17: Flip side of that, to take a laser focus on
Speaker 17: accelerating these compute challenges in AI. Ultimately, over the past
Speaker 17: two or three years, AI it's become so useful and
Speaker 17: so widely use that it's redefined. It's basically created a
Speaker 17: new abstraction layer for computing hardware. And with that computer
Speaker 17: hardware itself needs to evolve and change. If you look
Speaker 17: at the quantic computing companies that are out there right now,
Speaker 17: even the public ones and the one that I built
Speaker 17: in Regetting Computing, all of those roadmaps, their plans for
Speaker 17: five ten years out were locked in before AI became
Speaker 17: the dominant compute paradigm. And so today we see an
Speaker 17: opportunity to bring a new architecture that is specifically focused
Speaker 17: on accelerating training and inference, on lowering the cost and
Speaker 17: energy requirements. And also at combining different Cubitt modalities because
Speaker 17: all the companies today also are sideloaed with respect to
Speaker 17: their technology choices, which again were made before AI became
Speaker 17: the dominant paradigm. So we're bringing multiple different Cubitt types
Speaker 17: together within a single fault tone and architecture explicitly built
Speaker 17: for AI.
Speaker 2: Chad, do you need more money to do this because
Speaker 2: at the moment you're backed by Y Combinator. I'm sure
Speaker 2: you've got some money made on your previous company, But
Speaker 2: how much you need outside investment?
Speaker 17: Well, of course this is deep technology in the end,
Speaker 17: and the size of this market if you can crack this,
Speaker 17: when quantum really comes online and starts to impact AI
Speaker 17: training and inference costs, it's going to be a trillion
Speaker 17: dollar market. And we see this as completely inevitable. Ultimately,
Speaker 17: nature it self runs on quantum mechanics in the most
Speaker 17: information rich environments at the lowest level of nature. We
Speaker 17: use quantum mechanics to process that information, and quantum reflects
Speaker 17: that mirrors at reality and ultimately is a more efficient
Speaker 17: way of computing long term.
Speaker 16: So we're going to use this in conjunction with GPUs,
Speaker 16: in conjunction with large deal classical infrastructure.
Speaker 17: It's an enormous opportunity, and ultimately we believe that when
Speaker 17: our multi modality quantum architecture comes online that is not
Speaker 17: you know, other single modality architectures aren't ultimately going to
Speaker 17: be able to compete with it. We will absolutely need
Speaker 17: to raise additional capital going forward. The company is just
Speaker 17: getting going. We're launching and you know, publicly announcing the
Speaker 17: company today, So.
Speaker 16: We're in the early stages. But we're really excited.
Speaker 17: Our team is growing very fast, and we're you know,
Speaker 17: we're very excited what the next few years old.
Speaker 2: Chad to be personal about it. How has Regetti responded?
Speaker 2: It bears your name. I'm sure it's a help in
Speaker 2: many ways for you because your name is still so
Speaker 2: legendary within quantum. But how did they respond when they're
Speaker 2: also teaming up the Quanta in Taiwan, which is a
Speaker 2: server maker and looking at the adoption of quantum there.
Speaker 16: Yeah, well, ultimately you need to ask the boat and
Speaker 16: the team there.
Speaker 17: I think with respect to the progress towards ai these
Speaker 17: are deep architectural choices that need to be made early
Speaker 17: on in establishing your hardware roadmap and your company vision
Speaker 17: and plan, you need, the DNA, you need to be
Speaker 17: you know, early on in the organization, and once those
Speaker 17: things get locked in, there are forces that make it
Speaker 17: very challenging to to you know, to adjust that vision,
Speaker 17: to adjust those roadmaps, because it relates to all of
Speaker 17: your partnerships, it relates to your talent base, it relates
Speaker 17: to how you think and talk about the technology internally
Speaker 17: and your culture.
Speaker 16: So ultimately, we think being.
Speaker 17: Started started from the very get go focused on AIS,
Speaker 17: the singular killer application for quantum technologies. Getting the right
Speaker 17: team together very early on in developing an architecture, leveraging
Speaker 17: multiple different CUBA types that are needed to ultimately reach
Speaker 17: the combination of cost, speed and scale to unlock these
Speaker 17: AI applications is the winning.
Speaker 2: Approach to this, Chad, it's great speaking with you, Chad Raghetti,
Speaker 2: his new company, Siguldry, appreciate you joining shares of China's bid.
Speaker 2: They extended losses for the second day and it's Hong
Speaker 2: Kong trading. They're down here in depository receipts as well.
Speaker 2: This after the electric car maker announced sweeping price cuts
Speaker 2: up to thirty four percent on some of its vehicles.
Speaker 2: As his competition at home intensifies for the sector. Grimberg's
Speaker 2: David Welch joins us. Now, how fierce is the price
Speaker 2: competition in China?
Speaker 18: David, It's the one market where you really have price
Speaker 18: competition is in the Chinese market because the domestic players,
Speaker 18: they so dominate their home market and there are very
Speaker 18: few export are import into the market. That tariffs aren't
Speaker 18: really wreaking havoc on it the way it is in
Speaker 18: other parts of the world, so you don't have companies
Speaker 18: looking to raise prices to deal with tariffs. They're all
Speaker 18: domestic anyways, and they get all their parts, batteries, everything domestically,
Speaker 18: so they don't have that kind of pressure. The pressure
Speaker 18: is still there as it has been for a few
Speaker 18: years to lower prices and gain market share, probably try
Speaker 18: to get some of the foreign players out of the market.
Speaker 18: That's been going on for a long time. It's why
Speaker 18: General Motors and Volkswagen have struggled, is why Tesla is struggling.
Speaker 18: And I think you have companies like Bid and shall
Speaker 18: Mate who have such They've had a lot of growth,
Speaker 18: they want to keep it going, so they're going to
Speaker 18: keep splashing prices too to gain that market share.
Speaker 4: You mentioned Tesla.
Speaker 3: The other battleground that we compare Tesla to bid On
Speaker 3: is Europe, and the data over the holiday weekend in
Speaker 3: the US was that, you know, Tesla is suffering in
Speaker 3: Europe because of the political backlash of Ela Musk. There's
Speaker 3: also BYD doing well.
Speaker 5: There, that's right.
Speaker 18: You know, the Chinese automakers have done very well to
Speaker 18: gain a lot of ground there and Tesla's got a
Speaker 18: lot of problems in that market. I think Europeans, particularly
Speaker 18: with this new round of tariffs fifty percent being announced
Speaker 18: by Trump. Elon must being close to Trump, I think
Speaker 18: that that's going to continue to hurt the brand. It's
Speaker 18: going to continue to kind of put a shadow over
Speaker 18: Tesla in the market. They've also got stale product. The
Speaker 18: Europeans have a lot of evs. Now. Chinese competition is there,
Speaker 18: even though that's getting hit with some tariffs, but it's
Speaker 18: not good for Tesla in that market, and I think
Speaker 18: only fresh products would help them out. Even if Elon
Speaker 18: were to say tomorrow he's quitting Dose and going back
Speaker 18: to running Tesla, that doesn't really change what's happened with
Speaker 18: his brand in terms of the politics with some American
Speaker 18: buyers and with a bunch of European buyers, so that
Speaker 18: trouble is going to stick around for a while.
Speaker 3: I think Bluebeg's David Welch in Detroit, thank you very much,
Speaker 3: stick with elon mask. He's set to address his SpaceX
Speaker 3: workforce today. Among the discussions will be his long term
Speaker 3: goal for the company of sending humans to Mars. All
Speaker 3: this head of a scheduled test flight with the company
Speaker 3: Starship Rocket six thirty pm Local time, bloombergs Lauren Grushes.
Speaker 4: Here set the scene.
Speaker 3: You and I used to attend these kind of elong,
Speaker 3: big picture, star based moments in person.
Speaker 4: What are we expecting him to talk about?
Speaker 9: Yeah, I would say I would expect probably some of
Speaker 9: the same hits that he normally does. You know, he
Speaker 9: gives these Starship and Mars updates about once a year
Speaker 9: or so. But you know, every time he does give
Speaker 9: one of these discussions, he gives a few new tweaks.
Speaker 19: Maybe there's some new timelines, some new changes, new upgrades
Speaker 19: to the hardware for Starship. Wheres the plan?
Speaker 9: So you know, I think we'll be listening for some
Speaker 9: of the same old phrases. You know, preserving the light
Speaker 9: of consciousness.
Speaker 19: Is a big one, but also looking forward to some
Speaker 19: maybe updates on timelines and where what we might expect in.
Speaker 9: The year ahead for certain milestones that they need to achieve.
Speaker 2: Well, big day for Starship. How are we bracing ourselves
Speaker 2: because the last two tests so ended an explosion?
Speaker 19: I would say the stakes for this flight are particularly
Speaker 19: high because of those explosions you mentioned.
Speaker 7: The last two flights did not end well.
Speaker 9: Both ended in debris streaming over the sky over the Gulf,
Speaker 9: and so hopefully they have fixed the problems from those
Speaker 9: two flights.
Speaker 16: SpaceX did provide an update.
Speaker 9: Saying they know the causes for both of those explosions,
Speaker 9: that they were actually distinctly different in terms of what
Speaker 9: caused them, and that they have provided the appropriate design
Speaker 9: and hardware fixes.
Speaker 16: So we'll see if that holds.
Speaker 19: I think we'll all be holding our breath at about
Speaker 19: the eight minute mark, which was when both of those
Speaker 19: flights terminated.
Speaker 3: Early, Lauren, we just have twenty seconds, But remind us
Speaker 3: the ultimate goal, which is getting humans to Mars, and
Speaker 3: how Starship fits.
Speaker 19: Yes, so Starship is the primary vehicle for which SpaceX
Speaker 19: intends to send humans to Mars.
Speaker 20: Also has a contract with NASA to land humans on
Speaker 20: the moon with the vehicle, and eventually Starship will be
Speaker 20: the primary vehicle that SpaceX uses to launch everything in
Speaker 20: the future.
Speaker 9: So a lot is writing on the vehicle.
Speaker 2: Bloomberg's low Andngrush a busy day. We appreciate it now.
Speaker 2: That does it for this edition of Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 3: Ed Tune in tomorrow for a special edition of Bloomberg
Speaker 3: Technology looking at Nvidia's earnings at six thirty pm Eastern
Speaker 3: Time three thirty pm Pacific and big thanks everyone that tunes.
Speaker 4: Into the podcast. Listen to the podcast.
Speaker 3: You know where to find it online on Apple, Spotify, iHeart,
Speaker 3: and all the Bloomberg platforms. This is Bloomberg Technology.