1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: I think like the only thing that's going to humanize 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: Donald Trump as if he has like explosive diarrhea in 3 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: public and everybody sees it, because in people's minds, no 4 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,960 Speaker 1: matter how sweaty he is, orange, he is terrible, as 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: hair is bad, as pie is everything else. No matter what, 6 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: that all charms them to him. And so I'm like, literally, 7 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: it may take explosive diarrhea in public. 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 2: I'm John Cipher and I'm Jerry o'she. 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 3: I served in the CIA's Clandestine Service for twenty eight years, 10 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:31,479 Speaker 3: living undercover all around the. 11 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 2: World, and in my thirty three years with the CIA, 12 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 2: I served in Africa, Asia, Europe, and the Middle East. 13 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:39,599 Speaker 3: Although we don't usually look at it this way, we 14 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 3: created conspiracies. 15 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 2: In our operations. We got people to believe things that 16 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 2: were true. 17 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 3: Now we're investigating the conspiracy theories we see in the 18 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 3: news almost every day. 19 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 2: Will break them down for you to determine whether they 20 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: could be real or whether we're being manipulated. 21 00:00:54,440 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 3: Welcome the Mission Implocibles. We're going to talk to Adam Kinsinger, 22 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,119 Speaker 3: as you know, was a congressman from Illinois who became 23 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 3: sort of publicly known what he said on the committee 24 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 3: investigating the January sixth insurrection, and he was one of 25 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 3: the few Republicans who was involved in that investigation, and 26 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 3: therefore became attacked by other Republicans who believed that he 27 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 3: was doing damage to President Trump. So before we get 28 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 3: going here, let's listen to Adam's closing statements during the 29 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 3: Congressional investigation into January sixth. 30 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: The conspiracy theories were false, the allegation of a stolen election. 31 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 3: Was a lie. 32 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,279 Speaker 1: The data left no room for doubt, nothing to question, 33 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: and the Constitution left no room for President Trump to 34 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 1: change the outcome of the election. But we're here today 35 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: because the facts were irrelevant to President Trump. It was 36 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: about protecting his very real power and very fragile ego, 37 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: even if it required recklessly undermining our in our entire 38 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: electoral system by wildly casting baseless doubt upon it. In short, 39 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: he was willing to sacrifice our republic to prolong his presidency. 40 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: I can imagine no more dishonorable act by a president. 41 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: The oath that we take has to mean something, has 42 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: to cut to the core of who we are and 43 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: be the driving force of our service to this nation. 44 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 3: Adam's an interesting person. For us to talk to, because 45 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 3: I think you would agree with me that we considered 46 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 3: ourselves as we worked in the National security structures in CIA, 47 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 3: to be nonpartisan, to be focused on the mission of 48 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 3: protecting American citizens. And for thirty plus years, every meeting 49 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 3: went to all the friends we dealt with, all the 50 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 3: work we dealt with politics, domestic politics, partisanship issues almost 51 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 3: never came up in this case. I think it's interesting 52 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 3: to talk to Adam because he's sort of the place 53 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 3: where I think, I think we find ourselves. We want 54 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 3: to be in that sort of middle area where we're 55 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 3: talking about the issues or things that we think that 56 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 3: are important American citizens without going to either extreme. And 57 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 3: I think in our present political situation we've got to 58 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 3: the point where those centrists are often attacked by their 59 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 3: own parties because they're not radical enough. 60 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, Adam's an interesting guy, and I admire him greatly 61 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 2: because for him it's country over party. I think Adam 62 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: was persuadable and open to where the facts led and 63 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: to what actually happened. I think that takes real guts. 64 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: I'll say this, John, and we both we both know 65 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:45,839 Speaker 2: this to be true. He said publicly, what a lot 66 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: of his colleagues only whispered in private or said directly 67 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: after in shock, directly after what happened on January sixth, 68 00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 2: and then since recanted. He's actually stayed with that that story. 69 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 2: And I think Adam Kinsinger showed real intestinal fortitude and 70 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: some real courage in coming out and saying not what 71 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 2: was politically convenient, but what he actually believes. And I 72 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 2: think history will treat him well. 73 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 3: I think it will too. But like Liz Cheney, he 74 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 3: was punished politically for that, so he lost his he 75 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 3: lost his seat, she lost her seat, and it's painful 76 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 3: for me. I mean, I lived in I worked during 77 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 3: the Cold War against the Soviet Union, and I lived 78 00:04:28,320 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 3: in Russia. I lived in places like Yugoslavia where there's 79 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 3: an accepted view that you have to even if you 80 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 3: don't believe it in your heart of heart, you have 81 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 3: to publicly adhere to an ideology that you need to follow. 82 00:04:41,839 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 3: And frankly, it was only until some people brave enough 83 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 3: people were able to turn against those ugly ideologies that 84 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 3: history was able to change. And that's one of the 85 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 3: things it's interesting to talk to Adam about is he 86 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: will say that you know great majority of his Republican 87 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 3: colleagues know very well that Trump is guilty, know very 88 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,840 Speaker 3: well that some of the things that the party expouses 89 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 3: are wrong, but they nonetheless will not publicly break They 90 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 3: will stick to the party line. 91 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 2: To be forced to say the sky is green because 92 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 2: the emperor says it. It's a dangerous precedent to set. 93 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 2: You begin getting into cult territory when you begin to 94 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 2: deny the obvious. 95 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 3: We need to be in a position where we can 96 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 3: disagree and disagree vehemently on policy and issues. And I 97 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,040 Speaker 3: probably would disagree with Adam's policies on a variety of things, 98 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 3: but we need to have a common understanding on democracy. 99 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 3: And we grew up in national security, foreign policy things, 100 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,600 Speaker 3: and it was sort of the notion that nation security 101 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 3: ends at the water's edge, that we need to come together. 102 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 3: And now the enemy is no longer a foreign entity. 103 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 3: It's the other political party. So anything that damages the 104 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 3: other political party or your political opponent is seen as okay. 105 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 3: So in this episode, we're not really going to talk 106 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 3: about a specific well known conspiracy theory, but we're going 107 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 3: to talk to Adam about what he's learned working on 108 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 3: the inside in Congress about how people in politics may 109 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 3: either use conspiracy theories to their benefit or to use 110 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 3: them to attack others. 111 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: This is going to be a great interview, John, I'm 112 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 2: really looking forward to talking with Adam Kinsinger. But before 113 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 2: we begin, here's a really strong, trenchant clip of Adam 114 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 2: Kinsinger on the January sixth Commission, really speaking from the 115 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 2: heart to a group of Capitol policemen who lived through 116 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 2: January sixth. 117 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: Thank you to where a witnesses. I never expected a 118 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: day to be quite as emotional for me as it 119 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: has been. I've talked to a number of you and 120 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: gotten to know you. I think it's important to tell 121 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: you right now. Though you guys may like individually feel 122 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: a little broken. You guys all talk about the effects 123 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: you have to deal with, and you know, you talk 124 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: about the impact of that day, but you guys want 125 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 1: us hell. You know, democracies are not defined by our 126 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: bad days. We're defined by how we come back from 127 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: bad days, how we take accountability for that. And for 128 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: all the overheated rhetorics surrounding this committee, our mission is 129 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: very simple. Let's define the truth. It's to ensure accountability. 130 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 3: All right, So our guest today is Adam Kinzinger. He's 131 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 3: a senior political commentator at CNN and a former congressman 132 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,080 Speaker 3: from Illinois. He's a former Heirs Force officer and now 133 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 3: a lieutenant colonel and the Air National Guard. And for 134 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 3: my opinion, one of the most important things he's done 135 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 3: for this country is he was a member of the 136 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 3: January sixth Committee and did an amazing job. 137 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 2: And a patriot. 138 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh that's nice. Thanks. Thanks. That's a term that 139 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: gets misused by the way, now, patriot, that's true. 140 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 3: Recall when you left Congress, you made a sort of 141 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 3: a very biting farewell address and you warned both parties, 142 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,120 Speaker 3: but you warned your party about the influence of conspiracy 143 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 3: theories on politics and the danger thereof. So could you 144 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 3: just start by, maybe how do you think conspiracy theories 145 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 3: are affecting politics and give a certain background on that. 146 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: Well, first off, you know, it's funny because every politic 147 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: I think I think every politician like kind of dreams 148 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: of what their farewell speech is going to be from 149 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: the day they're in office. Right, It's like, because you know, 150 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 1: you got to play a little politics, and there's a 151 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: lot of stuff you wish you could say that you 152 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: can't say, and you're like, oh, my farewell speech, And 153 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 1: so I always thought my farewell speech would be like, 154 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: y'all are going to go bankrupt. You're not doing the 155 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: tough things. I didn't know it was going to be like, hey, 156 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: democracy is screwed, guys if you don't do anything, and 157 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:50,079 Speaker 1: that's what it was. But like, look, conspiracies the thing 158 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: that drives me nuts about them. So I grew up 159 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: in a kind of evangelical Christian home. I consider myself 160 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: like Protestant, non denominational. Now evangelical has a whole different connotation. 161 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 1: But you know, you'd always kind of grow up hearing 162 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: about like, oh, it's the end times, the uns running 163 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: the world. When I hear the term globalism, some people 164 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 1: think it's kind of anti Jewish. I actually hear it 165 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 1: as just like a one world government thing. But you know, 166 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: there's always this kind of like conspiracy notion, and it's 167 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:19,959 Speaker 1: always something at the end of the world. You realize, 168 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: I mean, Saddam Hussein was going to be the Antichrist 169 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: for a while and now he's dead, and so eventually 170 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: it just realized, like, man, this thing has been piling 171 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: up for thirty years, it's the end of the world. 172 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: It probably has been the end of the world since 173 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: the fifteen hundreds. And so when I got into politics, 174 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: so in twenty ten, it was like this tea party 175 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,520 Speaker 1: class and it was a very different tea party than 176 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: what people think of with tea party now. Like in 177 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: twenty ten, it was just like people that wanted to 178 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: cut spending and all that kind of stuff. It got 179 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,359 Speaker 1: crazier as time went on, but I would get the conspiracies, 180 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 1: the basic ones of like, you know, Barack Obama wasn't 181 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: born in the US, He's got this anti colonialism agenda 182 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: and you hear it. And I'd push back on a 183 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: lot of it. Some of it I just consider kooky. 184 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: But as time went on in the party, like this 185 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: stuff grew. And what I noticed in the and what 186 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,479 Speaker 1: really drove it home to me, was this Jade Holme conspiracy, 187 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: which is this idea that the Texas government is going 188 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: to be overtaken by the federal government because the military 189 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: was doing some urban exercises or whatever. 190 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 2: I mean. 191 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: I was getting emails from people, text from people like 192 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: you got to do something about Jade Helm and Louis 193 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 1: Gohmert did like a one hour speech on the floor 194 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: about it, and the Governor of Texas, Greg Abbott, still 195 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: then put out like we're going to have the State 196 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: Guard monitor of this exercise, which is bullshit. Everybody knew it, 197 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: but it was like his way of saying, look, we're 198 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: going to watch, you know, without having to take it 199 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,440 Speaker 1: on and jade home obviously wasn't what they thought it was. 200 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: And you're onto the next conspiracy theory. Well, that grew 201 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 1: substantially under COVID and then with the advent of QAnon. 202 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: You know, we'd always been told like conspiracy theories, don't 203 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,559 Speaker 1: give them oxygen, so don't talk about them. I've changed 204 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:58,079 Speaker 1: my mind on that. I'm like, you have to give 205 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: them oxygen because they're growing anyway. It's like fungus, right, 206 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: you have to like actually bring light to it. So 207 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,960 Speaker 1: the party, I think a lot of these new people 208 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,520 Speaker 1: that are going to like that are actually crazy. But 209 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: take some of the older folks that like just let 210 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: it go. When you as a leader, if somebody says 211 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: a conspiracy to you, and you, as a leader, don't 212 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: push back. They assume it's true and it's just overtaking 213 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,439 Speaker 1: and destroying the Republican Party. That's being my big concern. 214 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: I think that's worse. We talk about a truth crisis 215 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: and everything else, it's that it's conspiracies that nobody's pushing 216 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 1: back on because it's trust me, I've been there. It's 217 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: much easier to just kind of shake your head and 218 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: nod and look into it than to actually do anything else. 219 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 220 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 2: An exercise encourage I think was when John McCain, who 221 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,680 Speaker 2: I think the world of, when he pushed back on 222 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:52,080 Speaker 2: the one woman who said Barack Obama is a Muslim, 223 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 2: and you know he's my political opponent. I intend to 224 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 2: beat him, I think on my policies are better. But 225 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 2: that's not true. And I thought I thought the world 226 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 2: of John McCain when he said that those sort of 227 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 2: moments now in our political in our current political establish 228 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 2: and I think those days are gone. 229 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: I mean, it's insane. But with January six, like ninety 230 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: nine percent of these members of Congress don't believe that 231 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: it was anything but what it actually was. Many of 232 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 1: them were there, but they just don't have the courage 233 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: to speak out. 234 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 3: We got to take a break now and we'll be 235 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 3: back in just a minute. 236 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 2: And we're back. 237 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 3: Why Do you think it's worse for the Republican Party 238 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 3: if you think it is? And is it intentionally? So? 239 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: First off, is it on purpose? Yeah? I mean I 240 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,160 Speaker 1: think there's some people that benefit from this. You think 241 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,440 Speaker 1: of like a Steve Bannon and some of those that 242 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: keep people hooked, right because you start feeding them conspiracy. 243 00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: They're hooked and they keep coming back, and you keep 244 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: making scores of money and they don't care if it 245 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: doesn't come true because you're already on to the next one. 246 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: Some people it's not intentional. It's just by them not 247 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: pushing back against it. They're not acting as this guard 248 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: rail like you know, leaders are supposed to be. I 249 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:12,680 Speaker 1: get it, leaders, aren't you know. It's not like what 250 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: we learned in school where they're out there leading the 251 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: charge and convincing people. You're a leader, you have authority, 252 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: and that's not happening anymore. And why is it? Is 253 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: it worse than the Republican Party? I think so. That 254 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that the left is, you know, clear of conspiracies. 255 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: They're not. But I think it's inherent in this idea 256 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: in the far right of like a mistrust of government. 257 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: You know, government is the enemy you know, and in 258 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: kind of a normal, well adapted right wing view, it's like, look, 259 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: we want less government because government reduces people's opportunity. But 260 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: in the kind of what it's become is government's the enemy. 261 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: And so when somebody comes along and says, by the way, 262 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: the Democrats are sucking people's blood or like draining babies 263 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: of blood so they can be eternally youthful, all of 264 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 1: a sudden, what used to be crazy now seems realistic 265 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: because you've come to believe not just that the government's 266 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: the enemy, but these people are the enemy. Also. There's 267 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,160 Speaker 1: a look and again I say this kind of gingerly 268 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 1: as a somewhat religious guy myself, is like, religion can 269 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: certainly play a role in people's intention or ability to 270 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:22,040 Speaker 1: believe in conspiracy, because you can manipulate that and use it. 271 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: I don't think, for instance, that Jesus of the Bible 272 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: really cared about tax rates. I don't think he cared 273 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: about anything but the poor, And I think he didn't 274 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 1: care much, frankly about what was going on in government. 275 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: But you listen to some of these religious leaders now, 276 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: and Jesus would have been this, like, you know, guy 277 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: running for president thanking Donald Trump for his courage. And 278 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: that's the kind where everything gets kind of torn up 279 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: and confused, and I think the church has frankly failed 280 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: the right and frankly the American people pretty significantly. 281 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 2: You're out of government now, and are you getting a 282 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 2: different sense of the people who engage in conspiracies? And 283 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 2: I'll give you just a quick for instance. So when 284 00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 2: I was on the inside inside of CIA, when I 285 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 2: heard about the deeps state, I couldn't take it serious 286 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 2: because I was on the inside and I knew quite 287 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 2: frankly how screwed up the government can be. It's made 288 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 2: up of flawed human beings, mostly trying to do their best. 289 00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 2: But you know, the human beings involved have all got 290 00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 2: mortgage payments, and they're tired, and they got kids, and 291 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 2: they make mistakes. And I'm sort of wondering, having been 292 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 2: on the inside and seeing the sausage made where you 293 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 2: come out. 294 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: On that, I agree with you. It's like when you're there. 295 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 1: There's a number of times I'll be sitting around in 296 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: my office, like we were talking about like Syria policy or 297 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,920 Speaker 1: something like that, and I'm like I sit around, I realize, like, Okay, 298 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: I'm at the time, I was probably like thirty five. 299 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm thirty five. I'm sitting here with guys 300 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 1: in their late twenties literally coming up with policy for Syria. 301 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: I'm like, man, this government's run by a bunch of kids. 302 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: It really is of that, right, But you know the 303 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: other problem is in this era of information. First off, information, 304 00:15:55,680 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: as you all well know, there's too much information out 305 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: there and it breaks human brain. But there's also this 306 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 1: desire I'm going to say specifically with men, but it's 307 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: not meant to be just men. It's women too. But 308 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: speaking as a man, there's always this desire in your 309 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: life to be heroic, right, So I take it with 310 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: like January six, and I say, you know, as tough 311 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: as that whole process was for me, like every bit 312 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: of my life, I always was wondering, if there's ever 313 00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: a moment when I have to stand alone, do I 314 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: have what it takes to do it? And I did, 315 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 1: and I'm proud of that fact. And there's a lot 316 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 1: of my colleagues that are going to be very ashamed 317 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: of the fact that they didn't have what it takes. 318 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,800 Speaker 1: But I take that and it's like, you know, so 319 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: you've got to have that courage to tell the truth. 320 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: You've got to have that courage to stand up and instead, 321 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: what's happening is people outside have been again lied to. 322 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: They believe differently, their people aren't telling them the truth, 323 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: and they have to be a hero. And so, whether 324 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: it's social media, whether it's Bannon's podcast as an example, 325 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: or something else, people feel like they're not being heroic 326 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: enough or they need to be something. And so somebody 327 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: comes along and says, look, there's this conspiracy in government. 328 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: Your job is to overcome this conspiracy and government. That's 329 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 1: what QAnon was all about. It was about giving people 330 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: a mission go do the research yourself. And I think 331 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,639 Speaker 1: it's also where this intense recruitment and militias come along, 332 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: because in some cases, if you take a former veteran 333 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: for instance, that's kind of in that group, you know, 334 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 1: they come back from the war, they maybe at twenty 335 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 1: two years old, kind of reached the apex of what 336 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: of like manhood. I guess you know, they're fighting, they're defending. 337 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: You come back, the government patsy on the head, gives 338 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: you a paycheck for the rest of your life and 339 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:41,919 Speaker 1: says go fishing. Well, you feel you get depressed pretty quickly, 340 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: and somebody comes along, like the oathkeepers and says, look, 341 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: you know you still can keep your oath. Well, that's 342 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: very attractive, right, And people come along and say, you know, 343 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: there's this conspiracy and government all of a sudden, from 344 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,520 Speaker 1: your home computer, you can do the research and find out. 345 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 1: And I think that's a big part of the is 346 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: just there is this desire that's natural in every person 347 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: in the world to fight for something bigger, and they've 348 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,960 Speaker 1: been convinced that something bigger is to fight against the conspiracy. 349 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 2: We don't even always have a good in English, the 350 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 2: English language, we don't even have good terminology for it. 351 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 2: So we have the term conspiracy theory, and that implies 352 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 2: for most of us that it's elementally untrue. I mean, 353 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 2: bits and pieces of it may be true. But then 354 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 2: we have the word conspiracy, which implies that it is 355 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 2: true to I'm wondering sort of what your take is, 356 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 2: and sitting in the Kremlin some place is a boardroom 357 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 2: with fifteen guys on a whiteboard saying, Okay, how do 358 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 2: we mess with the American psyche election cycle? Weaken their democracy? 359 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 2: And as a former CIA case officer, I believe that 360 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 2: is the case. 361 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: This is the big thing I'd like to say is, 362 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,919 Speaker 1: look from a politics perspective, I'm actually pretty moderate, and 363 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: I've moderated since the day I've been in Congress because 364 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: I've tried to stay open minded to think I'm moderated 365 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: on stuff like guns, certain abortion things, stuff like that, 366 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 1: you know, and social policy and taxes and the role 367 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: of government. But I'm a moderate guy. The number of 368 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: people that I'll see that'll go after me because by 369 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 1: the way, I voted this way once, this certain way, 370 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: I get it. I have no problem with anybody going 371 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: after my voting record. The problem I have right now 372 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: is that the right and the left, there's not many 373 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 1: of us on the right or the center right who 374 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: are pro democracy. We have got to have an uncomfortable 375 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: alliance and put aside for a little bit our difference 376 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: in policy, because we will fight these policies for the 377 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: next two hundred years. I mean, it's not like tax 378 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: issues came along all the sudden. They've been like debated 379 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,119 Speaker 1: since the beginning of America. We're going to debate that forever. 380 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: We need to be able to debate that. And democracy 381 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: is truly a threat if you're disregarding somebody because of 382 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: a political viewpoint. In the defensive democracy, you're not really 383 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: for the defensive democracy or truth. 384 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 2: Does it matter insofar as it doesn't matter what the 385 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 2: votes say. I feel I want that is that's the 386 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 2: road to fascism or strongmanism, authoritarianism. 387 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: It is. And the concern I have, especially on democracy, 388 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 1: is like it's so I guess I always in my 389 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 1: life believed it was like the best form of government, 390 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,679 Speaker 1: and I do. But in believing that, I always believed 391 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 1: it was kind of the easiest automatic form of government. 392 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:29,400 Speaker 1: I've come to believe it's actually the hardest form of government. 393 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 1: It's much easier to have a dictator. Like if we 394 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: had a dictator, none of this stuff you and I 395 00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:37,240 Speaker 1: are talking about, we wouldn't even need to talk about. 396 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: It wouldn't matter because we just do what we were told. 397 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: So that's pretty easy. It fails, but it's pretty easy. 398 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:48,359 Speaker 1: Democracy is fine if you have a basic social contract. 399 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: That basic social contract. It's why I've moderated on the 400 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,199 Speaker 1: issues of voting rights. Even you know, initially I was 401 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,399 Speaker 1: buying into this idea that preclearance in the South, and 402 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: it's you know, that was a relic of the sixties, 403 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: and we didn't. Well, then I saw what the South 404 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: was actually doing, particularly after the twenty twenty election, and 405 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: I've been like, no, I think the John Lewis Voting 406 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: Rights Act actually does need re implement it now, although 407 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 1: my only worry is what addens if it's a Republican administration. 408 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: But the social contract is you can vote, if you're eligible, 409 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,199 Speaker 1: your vote counts, and the winner, the person with the 410 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: most vote, wins. Everything else doesn't matter if you don't 411 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:25,400 Speaker 1: agree on it, as long as you agree on that. 412 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: And Donald Trump violated that in half the country, less 413 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: than half the country, but close believes it. That's when 414 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: it's dangerous. And where conspiracy comes in is it chips 415 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:43,679 Speaker 1: away and destroys your belief in authority and truth. And 416 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,160 Speaker 1: when that goes away and nobody believes what people say 417 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: because there's a conspiracy around them, I don't know how 418 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 1: you repair that damage. I worry. 419 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 3: I think the sort of key thing that happened with Trump, 420 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 3: and it's something that's sort of a basic part of politics, 421 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 3: because as you know, fear and anger sell it works 422 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,919 Speaker 3: in politics. You know, Donald Trump didn't create that, but 423 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 3: the one thing he did create in twenty sixteen is 424 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:08,080 Speaker 3: telling his followers that the real enemy is not the 425 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 3: Russians of the Chinese. The real enemy is your political opponents. 426 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 3: The Democrats are the real enemy. They're the horrible people. 427 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 3: They're trying to do horrible things. They're trying to throw 428 00:22:15,440 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 3: me in jail. Hillary Clinton is the real enemy. I'll 429 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 3: work with Putin if it helps get rid of Hillary Clinton, 430 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 3: because that's the real enemy. And if Americans think that 431 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 3: other Americans are the real enemy, then the rest of 432 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 3: the world is really going to start laughing at us 433 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 3: and take advantage of us. 434 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: Well, and look that's where you know, you see the 435 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: number of Republicans that are pro Putin. A lot of 436 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: that is they don't really know any of the issues, 437 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: but it owns the Libs in their mind right, We're 438 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: owning the Libs because the Libs are for Ukraine, so 439 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: we're going to own them. And because there is no 440 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:51,119 Speaker 1: real enemy, like you said, besides the Libs, you know, 441 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: besides the political opponent. Those are your enemy. So anything 442 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: you know, cruelty is the point. Like I don't care 443 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,399 Speaker 1: if Vladimir Putin's killing them bunch of children, that's the point. 444 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: The point is I get to make you mad with it. 445 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: You know, that's the cruelty out there. Like what Bobert 446 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: or something I think just tweeted about Maui and said, 447 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,440 Speaker 1: you know when you ask for money, just remember it's 448 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,360 Speaker 1: all in Ukraine. Now, Like what an asshole. That's just 449 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: because cruelty is the point. It gets her retweets and 450 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: gets her attention. And uh, you know, I think the 451 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 1: vast majority of people aren't into that. I think the 452 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: vast majority of people are like the three of us here. 453 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 1: They but the problem is they're they're the ones that 454 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,200 Speaker 1: aren't noisy because they're just going about living the regular life. 455 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: You've got to be noisier. It doesn't mean go on 456 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: Twitter and to it, but like actually put into effect, 457 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: like voting against the people if you're a Democrat in 458 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: a Republican congressional district. It's part of what I have 459 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: an organization country first. It's what we've been trying to 460 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: do is say, if you're a Democrat in a district 461 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: that's going to have a Republican congressman, vote in the 462 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: primary for the same person if there is one. 463 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 2: Okay, let's take a break from the craziness just for 464 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 2: a minute or two. And Rebecca, how do you explain 465 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,000 Speaker 2: the intellectual dissonance that we see? You know, someone like 466 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 2: John McCain shot down on North Vietnam, tortured, refused to 467 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:24,159 Speaker 2: leave unless everybody else left, and you can disagree with 468 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 2: his policies, but the man was a hero, right, He 469 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 2: was a war hero. And then along comes someone who 470 00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 2: avoids the draft and says he's a loser, and then 471 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 2: it goes into it and I don't like losers implying 472 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 2: that his heroism was something less than it was coming 473 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:41,679 Speaker 2: from someone who's never who actively clearly avoided the draft. 474 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 2: And then we get into the FBI is evil, rule 475 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:50,320 Speaker 2: of law is wrong? Doj CIA. Before when you got 476 00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 2: involved in politics, it was writ that those three letter 477 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 2: agencies and people like that service to the nation. You 478 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 2: could disagree with them, but they were still people who 479 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 2: serve honorably. How would you explain to me, I just 480 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 2: don't get it how black as white. 481 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: And white as I know, there's a whole lot of 482 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: things at play, but I'm going to give you a 483 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 1: basic idea that may be part of this. So first off, 484 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: it is interesting because I remember, probably early on in 485 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: my political career, somebody telling me like, oh, you know, 486 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 1: if you go to like any of these government agencies, 487 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: ninety percent of the bureaucrats and I don't mean that pejoratively, 488 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: but the people that work there, ninety percent of them 489 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: are Democrats, unless you go to the CIA or FBI, 490 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: in which case it's either fifty to fifty or there 491 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,640 Speaker 1: may be more Republicans there, because that was just kind 492 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: of naturally, you know, the US that the Republicans tended 493 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: to be more like, let's go to the FBI and 494 00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: CIA and Democrats to state and it's all switched on 495 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: its head. I think part of it is, so think 496 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: of this like the sunken cost fallacy. Right when you 497 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,360 Speaker 1: lost when we lost ten thousand men in Vietnam, why 498 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 1: did we send more men because we already lost ten 499 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: thousand men. You can't leave now, right, And so we 500 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: ended up losing fifty thousand men before we finally left Vietnam. 501 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,159 Speaker 1: We could get into a whole thing on Vietnam. But 502 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: I think there's an aspect of sunken cost going on here. 503 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,880 Speaker 1: When you start out in twenty sixteen and you're like, look, 504 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: I don't like Donald Trump, but here's a legitimate thing. 505 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,879 Speaker 1: He's going to appoint conservative judges that I agree with, 506 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: So I'm going to vote for him. Okay. So you 507 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: vote for him, Well, that's a little piece of your soul, okay, 508 00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: because you're having to accept that, okay, And then every 509 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 1: year that goes by, everything that goes by, you're just 510 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 1: tearing a little bit more of your soul out and 511 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: giving it to Donald Trump. By the way, Franklin Graham Junior, 512 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: who I have a personal dislike for because he after 513 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 1: we voted, the ten of us voted to impeach Donald Trump, 514 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 1: he tweeted something about how many pieces of silver did 515 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi give the ten to vote to peach Donald Trump? 516 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: Is saying two things. It's saying that I'm Judas, and 517 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,239 Speaker 1: it's also saying that Donald Trump is Jesus Christ. And 518 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: this is Franklin Graham Junior. By the way, Well, what's 519 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,239 Speaker 1: happened to him and what's happened to some of these 520 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: other people? When you've given enough of your soul to 521 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 1: this evil thing, you cannot now stop and stop giving 522 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 1: your soul or admit that it was wrong, because now 523 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: you're admitting that you you gave up everything you believed 524 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: for whatever reason that is. And you remember how I 525 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: said at the beginning, like everybody wants to fight a 526 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: heroic cause. The idea of looking in the mirror and 527 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 1: saying what I did for seven years of my life 528 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,960 Speaker 1: has made things worse and not better is a reality 529 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people cannot face. And it's going to 530 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,040 Speaker 1: take you know, when Adolph Hitler finally offed himself and 531 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,199 Speaker 1: you know, troops moved into Germany and people went and 532 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,439 Speaker 1: saw the concentration camps, is when they finally came to 533 00:27:57,560 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: terms with what they were accepting. And I think they 534 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:03,120 Speaker 1: came to legitimate terms with it. It's like legitimately, like, yes, 535 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 1: we did evil things. I don't want to compare that 536 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: to that. But there's gonna be a moment then where 537 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,719 Speaker 1: people are going to have to look at what Donald 538 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: and I do think. Frankly, it's good that there's a 539 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: chance when he's in trial and all the shit he 540 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 1: has done actually comes out publicly that that may be 541 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: the beginning of that reckoning. But there's a moment where 542 00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 1: people are going to have to be forced to come 543 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: to terms with that because nobody you guys know this 544 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: as intelligence officers, nobody thinks they're the bad guy. Everybody 545 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: thinks they're the hero. Everybody thinks they're I mean, you know, 546 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 1: al Qaeda thought they were doing the right thing. Isis 547 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: thinks they're doing the right thing. So how do you 548 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: make them accept it? Well, you may not. In Isis's case, 549 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: you got to kill them. In politics cases, you have 550 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: to show them irrefutable evidence that what they did was wrong. 551 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: And I don't know the answer to get there. But 552 00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:55,920 Speaker 1: I think it's a lot of what's going on. 553 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 2: Whatever news channel you watch may not show that evidence exactly. 554 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 3: You know, I want to make this too political, but 555 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 3: what a lot of the stuff we're talking about in 556 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 3: how people have turned on people like you that are 557 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 3: sort of more centrist Republicans. I think what's happening is 558 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 3: the Donald Trump wing of the Republican Party is killed 559 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 3: off the Republican Party. I think in many ways there's 560 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 3: no more Republican Party. So it's one thing to own 561 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 3: the Libs. And I don't know how people like Jerry 562 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 3: and I became Libs because we were never political in 563 00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 3: any way whatsoever. But they're attacking you, they're attacking Republicans, 564 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 3: they're essentially eating their own. I mean, is there no 565 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 3: recognition that Republican Party at best was forty nine to 566 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 3: fifty percent of the population. 567 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:39,760 Speaker 4: Well, that's why I think that the best way out 568 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 4: of this is the Republican Party is going to have 569 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 4: to burn in the next election, and maybe the election 570 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 4: after that, they're going to have to lose the presidency. 571 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: I still consider my I still call myself a Republican 572 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 1: because it again, it's ground. I don't want to seed 573 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: because I haven't changed what I believe. I'm not voting 574 00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: Republican anymore until it changes, because they've got to learn 575 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: that anti democracy, I'll go vote for a liberal before 576 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: i'll vote for somebody that wants to tear my democracy away. 577 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: So take somebody like me, who's you know, I would 578 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 1: say I was probably an eighty percent voting with them Republican, 579 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: you know, the old Reagan rule. Somebody's voting with the 580 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: eighty percent time of your friend. The problem is is, 581 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: as you guys know, because you've dealt with this in 582 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: your intelligence work, what is a fundamentalist, right, What is 583 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: a fundamentalist Islam? Well, that's somebody that's, you know, very 584 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 1: strictly adherent to their belief system. A specific belief system. 585 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: Fundamentalist Christian, Well, now there's like fundamentalist Conservative or fundamentalist Republican. 586 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: Fundamentalists are more angry at people that claim to be 587 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,080 Speaker 1: them or like them than they are at their enemy. 588 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: Why is it that isis killed more Muslims than they 589 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: killed Americans or they killed you know, Westerners Because to them, 590 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: the ultimate heresy was somebody claiming to be Muslim but 591 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,480 Speaker 1: not following their strict adherents. It's it's the same in Republicanism. 592 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: Why is it that they hate me and Liz Cheney 593 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 1: more than they hate Nancy Pelosi because they think because 594 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 1: they're fundamentalists, they believe that I am the kind of 595 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,280 Speaker 1: like Campbell's knows in the tent, pretending to be like them, 596 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,719 Speaker 1: and I'm not worthy of it. That's I think you 597 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: have to see it in that way. 598 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 2: I'm one of ten kids. I've got some mega folks 599 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 2: in my own family, and when we talk, it's difficult 600 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 2: to sort of come to them and talk. 601 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: Is then? 602 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 2: Is it? Because you get through the what about ism 603 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 2: and they say, well, Joe Biden is just as bad 604 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 2: to be Frank, I voted for the guy, but we 605 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,040 Speaker 2: could do better in the Democratic Party. But there's not 606 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 2: like radical probideness doesn't exist, right, It's like, Okay, he's 607 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 2: a human being. He's doing his best. Maybe he could 608 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 2: do better. Maybe i'd like a younger guy. So what's 609 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 2: your sense of like in dealing in your party and Trump? 610 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 2: As you alluded to as this airsot. 611 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: See because it's got cult tendencies. I mean it really 612 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,320 Speaker 1: People joke about it, but I think it's true when 613 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: you come to believe a man like Donald Trump. I mean, 614 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 1: I've tried to think, like, what is it gonna take 615 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: for Donald Trump to actually be seeing as human in 616 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: people's eyes? 617 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,600 Speaker 2: Maybe if he shoots somebody on Fifth Avenue. Oh no, 618 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:12,280 Speaker 2: they won't work. 619 00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right, he could do that. It would make 620 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:15,479 Speaker 1: him tougher. 621 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 3: You know. 622 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,520 Speaker 1: The funny thing like this is gonna be funny, and 623 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: it's kind of meant to be funny, but it's really true. 624 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,959 Speaker 1: I think, like the only thing that's gonna humanize Donald 625 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,880 Speaker 1: Trump as if he has like explosive diarrhea in public 626 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: and everybody sees it. Because in people's minds, no matter 627 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,880 Speaker 1: how sweaty he is, orange, he is terrible as hair 628 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: is bad, as tie is everything else. No matter what. 629 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: That all charms them to him, and they think that 630 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: his It's funny because you know, we always learn what 631 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: is the what is the good trait of a of 632 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: a man? And it's like taking responsibility, fighting when you 633 00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: have to, but trying to find a way out of conflict. 634 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: It's all what the CIA is all about. Now, the 635 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: trait of a man is a guy who can be 636 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: a real dick on social media, like, no, actually that's 637 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: a child and in fact a narcissist like Donald Trump. 638 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: I just learned, actually their social development was arrested at 639 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: three years old. So he's in reality a three year 640 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 1: old and that's what he's acting like. And so I'm like, literally, 641 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: it may take explosive diarrhea in public, but that's what 642 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: it is. They have come to believe of him as 643 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: a Christ type figure and the guy as he's obviously 644 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 1: doing it successfully. There's nothing you can say except he's 645 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: good at that. He's got his reptilian instinct that understands it. 646 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: And as a guy that's met with him a number 647 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: of times. Here's a quick interesting story, met with him 648 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,280 Speaker 1: a number of times. He is very charming in person. 649 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: Everybody will tell you that he's funny. I mean, man, 650 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: if he drank, I'd love to drink beer with him. 651 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,240 Speaker 1: But I never was on Donald Trump's side. The first 652 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,080 Speaker 1: time I met with him was right after the election, 653 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 1: right after he was sworn in in twenty seventeen, and 654 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: I expected to go into the Oval Office and have 655 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: him be like Adam f you know, you didn't support 656 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: me all that. He just looks at me and he goes, 657 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: you were great on television, and he kept saying it. 658 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:02,680 Speaker 1: There's eight of us in the Oval Office, and he 659 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: kept fifty percent of his attention and that whole place 660 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 1: was on me and complimenting me. And I walked out 661 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: of there, you know, feeling flattered. President said that, and 662 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,920 Speaker 1: then I realized what he's doing, which is he didn't 663 00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: have me, and he wanted me. He wanted And the 664 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 1: second I would have been like, which you've seen people 665 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,720 Speaker 1: like Lindsey Graham do. The second I'd be like, okay, 666 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: mister President, I'm all in. That's when he's out. So 667 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,200 Speaker 1: think of this three year old, think of an arrested 668 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: social development, and think of yourself as a jerk you 669 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: wear in high school and you ask a girl out 670 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:36,919 Speaker 1: on a date, she says no, and she becomes more 671 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,759 Speaker 1: attractive to you. You want to date her more. But 672 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: the second she says yes, you're like, oh, what's you know? 673 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: I'm out right, that's because you have an undeveloped love 674 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 1: life relationship. That's Donald Trump in a nutshell. 675 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 3: Well, and then when he pulls you in, he then 676 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 3: gets you to do something, so you become complicit in 677 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 3: the things, so you're sort of stuck. It seemed like 678 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 3: the first time I saw that, I'd be like, what's 679 00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 3: wrong with you? 680 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: He avoided the draft, He's never done physical activity. He 681 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,440 Speaker 1: knows and everybody knows. He can't confront people in public. 682 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,160 Speaker 1: I'm not great at one on one personal confrontation, but 683 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: if I have to do it, I you know, I 684 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,239 Speaker 1: force myself to do it right. He will not confront anybody. 685 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: He can't fire anybody in person. He did it on tweet, 686 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 1: Like everything about this man is the weakest thing I've 687 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 1: ever seen. And by the way, he was president of 688 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: the United States, but yet the victim of every circumstance 689 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 1: and everything. How can you be in that position and 690 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: be the victim of everything unless you're that week. 691 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 2: He's a victim of conspiracy, theories that's run over and 692 00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 2: over again. The deep state is after him. 693 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Adam. 694 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 3: We know you're a busy guy. Thank you so much 695 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,359 Speaker 3: for spending time with us today. The things you're talking 696 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,160 Speaker 3: about are really important for all of us. 697 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 2: I have to say, genuinely from the bottom of my heart, 698 00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 2: it's good talking to somebody who puts country over party. 699 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 2: I think that's something that we don't get enough of 700 00:35:58,239 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 2: these days. 701 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 3: History will be kind to those people who had the 702 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 3: courage to do these kind of things, and let's hope 703 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 3: more of our politicians and journalists and others do so 704 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:05,879 Speaker 3: as well. 705 00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,239 Speaker 2: We put young women in men of this country into 706 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,440 Speaker 2: war zones where they risk their lives, but too often 707 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,720 Speaker 2: politicians won't risk anything, certainly not their reputations. And people 708 00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,879 Speaker 2: like Adam Kinsinger, he's somebody who does and I really 709 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 2: respect that. 710 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 3: We had a senior official at the CI used to 711 00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 3: always say he was always surprised how many people are 712 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 3: willing to risk their lives but not risk their career. 713 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 2: I greek completely, John. You can find heroes in different 714 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 2: places in different ways, and for me, Adam is really 715 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 2: one of them. Thanks very much. Everybody, take care and 716 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 2: we'll see you again on Mission implausible. 717 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:48,800 Speaker 3: Oh it's like murder, She wrote, Mission Implausible. 718 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 1: Mission Implausible. 719 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,680 Speaker 2: It was produced by Adam Davidson, Jerry O'sha, John Cipher, 720 00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 2: and Jonathan Stern. The associate producers are Rachel Harner and 721 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 2: David Sollinger. This has been a production of honorable mention 722 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,960 Speaker 2: and abominable pictures for iHeartMedia.