1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:00,680 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 2: Today, we have a special crossover bonus episode for you 3 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 2: where I talk to Talking Feds Harry Litman live from 4 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 2: this weekend's Texas Tribune Festival. 5 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 3: I hope you enjoy it. 6 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: I'm Harry Littman of Talking Fits. I'm really pleased to welcome. 7 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: I want to say Malli john Fest. But I keep 8 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: reading that it's a reverend. 9 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:23,680 Speaker 2: Something. 10 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: I think your first name is a reverend? Were there 11 00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: many kids in school who have? When did you become a. 12 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 3: Reverend? 13 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: Is such a weird thing to have as a describer? 14 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 4: Do you think it's not? Until you think it's like 15 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 4: a little shade. 16 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 3: Let's take no reverence. Great, I've been called much worse. 17 00:00:45,920 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 2: Even today, we're in the middle of like a million 18 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:52,279 Speaker 2: different legal like just everybody is in legal jeopardy right 19 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 2: we have. I mean, Trump is the main event, but 20 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 2: there are a lot of other satellite events. What case 21 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 2: do you think right now seems most open and shut 22 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:01,440 Speaker 2: to you? 23 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 4: Oh, open and shut? 24 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: That's not where I thought you were going, because I 25 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: don't know if it'll open and shut in the time 26 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: we want. 27 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 4: But the most open and shut I actually think is 28 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 4: the mar Lago case. The document, the doc it's so 29 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 4: straight forward. 30 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: The law is so clear. All it has to be. 31 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 1: You have classified documents. We know that it says that 32 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: I'm you take this man. You know you're not supposed to, 33 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: and you know it just gets stronger and stronger every day. 34 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 4: Killer evidence. 35 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: So it's like a weird time that where you know, 36 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: teeny little things, pieces of knowledge you've acquired over twenty years, 37 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: have all some political significance, removal and burden of proof, 38 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: but it actually matters. So here this witness who came 39 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: forward to who we learned about a couple days ago, right, Michael, 40 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: she's going to bury him because he's the she is unimpeachable. 41 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: Tried to stay with him, nicely, well presented and will say, 42 00:01:58,880 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: oh yeah. 43 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 4: When he found out it's going to talk with the FBI, 44 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 4: I said, you don't know anything about those documents. You 45 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 4: can like the. 46 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 1: Majurial, right, and that's we We focus on stunning the 47 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: Bullgravano or me Parkment. But but they'll have bruising cross examinations. 48 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: I think John Laurel will just weep and say, no 49 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: further questions. 50 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 4: What are you gonna do with the with it? 51 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 1: So so mar Alago, Okay, now I got one for you. 52 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: I'll stick with the irreverent themes. 53 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,919 Speaker 4: So this can a little is it a little more 54 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 4: meta and reflective? 55 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: See as, because you know, truth be told, you're very 56 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: sort of susbanative and trenchant. 57 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 4: But through the prism of irreverence. 58 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: What do you see as the kind of role of irony, wit, 59 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: humor and actually the you know, the the mission of 60 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: journalism of you know, not just imparting facts, but giving 61 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: the kind of point of view that hopefully will make 62 00:02:57,240 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: people see the stakes. 63 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 3: Here the goal is always honesty, right. 64 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,960 Speaker 2: I mean, I'm on the opinion side, which gives me 65 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 2: a lot of freedom. I don't have to not say 66 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 2: what I think, whereas like a straight reporter needs to 67 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: be able to tell a story without I mean, of 68 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 2: course we always know, right, but without their own personal bias, 69 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 2: Whereas I don't have to do that. But I do 70 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 2: feel like there's even more impetus on me to be 71 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: honest and to be honest about when I'm looking at 72 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: a case because I'm on the opinion side, and also 73 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 2: because the goal here is always honesty, right, So it 74 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 2: might be funny that there's nothing we can do about 75 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: the fact that the world is so deeply insane. I 76 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: think if it were less insane, it might be less funny. 77 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 2: You know, you have to laugh to not cry. The 78 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 2: thing is right, the Republican front runner has foreign indictments 79 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 2: and a superseding indictment and he can't stop winning. 80 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 3: But I mean it's preposterous. 81 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 2: But on the face of it, like imagine, think of 82 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: gour Vidal writing about that. 83 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 3: I mean, he wouldn't believe it. He wouldn't. I mean, 84 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 3: I was listening. 85 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 2: To some of his writings on the plane on the 86 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 2: way out here, and he was talking about how George 87 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 2: Bush was so beyond the pale George but it thought 88 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 2: of as like now a statesman, I mean, not by me, 89 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 2: but you know, as a painter in a. 90 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 1: Richard Nixon's the best thing that ever happened, right, I mean. 91 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: So I think that the sort of preposterousness of American 92 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 2: politics lends itself to humor in a way that it's 93 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 2: still very serious and we always have to be serious 94 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 2: about it. 95 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 3: But it is I mean, remember like think about right. 96 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 4: I mean John Patty right, Okay. 97 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 2: Think about yesterday is like big or the day before 98 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: big breaking news about Rudy Giuliani, Rudy Giuliani sexually harassed 99 00:04:49,279 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: or in a very inappropriate sexual contact with a young 100 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 2: girl Mark Meadows. 101 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: You know with that Cassidy wild Trump is making this 102 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 1: watch at the right and Johnny through clearing that right now, 103 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 1: it's like at a Hoeronymous spot, right, Yes. 104 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:08,599 Speaker 2: Truly a horrendous, horrendous scene from a different century. But 105 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 2: I want to point out, like we could talk about 106 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: Rudy Julian and look back at Rudy Giuliani's time in 107 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 2: the Borat movie? 108 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 4: Will you did this game the right? 109 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 2: Right? 110 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 3: The Borat Movie supposed to be a satire. 111 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: I say, sorry, so, I mean, it's just I wouldn't 112 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 2: be so irreverend if everything wasn't so insane. 113 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: Right, and in fact, if the if the actual touchstone 114 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: is truth, then it really how do you get out 115 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: at a time where even that's up for grass? 116 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 4: But I shouldn't have said that because it's your turning over. 117 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 3: Yes, wet all right. So Laurence O'Donnell was on my podcast. 118 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 3: Yeah he's my body. 119 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, he said that a very very very high number 120 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 2: of jury trials end in guilty verdict like ninety percent plus. 121 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 3: Is that true? 122 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: And why, well, a very very very high percentage of 123 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: criminal press acutions and in guilty verdicts, although they're usually 124 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: by plea. 125 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 4: But you know, I'm here to tell you. 126 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: So I went to law school kind of last refuge 127 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: of the amateur. Like a lot of people, I thought 128 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: I might be a defense lawyer. It's just by way 129 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: of saying, I'm not a fire in the Valley prosecutor. 130 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: But it's just a fact, like there's you know, like 131 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: facts we were just talking about. To the prosecutors choose 132 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: their their cases. Defendants are honestly mostly guilty. I have 133 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 1: whenever I've gotten close to like it's just true and 134 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,000 Speaker 1: it could be some solid maybe they have a good 135 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: legal claim. I don't mean, and I totally respect defenser, 136 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: But whenever I get close to defense, I always say, like, over, so, 137 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: have you. 138 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 4: Ever had like someone who didn't do it? 139 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: And they're you know, I think the sky in twenty 140 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: fourteen maybe, so you know, the evidences, So they choose now, 141 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:58,799 Speaker 1: of course in the incredible it really and it should 142 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: be sort of reassuring because I know some people, especially 143 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: in the age of Trump, have such fundamental mistrust for 144 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: law enforcement. It is, you know, as of course, said 145 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: the competitive business affairity on crime. 146 00:07:10,480 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 4: Once you're one, you're engaged. You don't want to lose. 147 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: But in any professional office, somebody there's a lot of 148 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: cases out there and somebody who you're going to have 149 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: trouble proving or god forbid, you're not sure did it 150 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: unless they are themselves and you know, for independent reasons. 151 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 4: A real plague on the community. 152 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: So you really want to dig dig card kind of 153 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: an al capone situation, you go to the next guy. 154 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: So it's really the case. Now, trials are different because 155 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: beyond a reasonable doubt, you only need one shit happens. 156 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: I was just thinking of this Fulton County trial that's 157 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: coming up. 158 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 4: She charges a rico. 159 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 1: We're going to have two people sitting there supposedly for 160 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: four months, while what a week of the evidence concerns 161 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: them directly, you know, twelve real people sitting on your 162 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: might think what. 163 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 4: The how am I doing here? 164 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: And there sort of human reaction, et cetera. So that 165 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: can happen, especially if you count a mistrial. But the 166 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: short answer to Lawrence so O Donald, he's got a 167 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: real vantage point. He's I don't know if you read 168 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: his book about the big criminal case and stuff. 169 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 4: But the real answer, don't shoot the messenger. 170 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: It's a fact almost all charged criminal defendants, certainly in 171 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: the federal system, are gilly my turn. 172 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 5: Interesting you said recently, I'm kind of terrifying, which is 173 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 5: the media is giving us flashbacks to twenty sixteen. Yeah, 174 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 5: you know, I think there's a sort of overarching question 175 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 5: of this festival of you know, where do we stand 176 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 5: after sort of eight years of Trump is? 177 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: And how much is an in root and branch and 178 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,439 Speaker 1: how do you purge it? And I've asked this question. 179 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,360 Speaker 1: We had a journalism panel with Jacob Weisberg and Johnny 180 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,400 Speaker 1: Cobb and Katie Benner, and I just spoke with the 181 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: Major Garrett about this indictment, and everybody said, you know, 182 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,200 Speaker 1: guilty is charge of journalism back then for giving Trump 183 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:11,439 Speaker 1: so much airtime as if they were like to calling 184 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: in too, and then they take the call kind of 185 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,599 Speaker 1: as if you know, he's this. I think there was 186 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: a sense of which he was always a kind of 187 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 1: attention gathering buffoon, but the joke was sort of on us, right. 188 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 1: So when I hear you say you're getting flashbacks, that 189 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:35,839 Speaker 1: suggests to me that those grievous and consequential errors are 190 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: being replicated. 191 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 4: Is that how you see it. 192 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 2: One of the things that I wrote in that piece, 193 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: which I think is is really as i've you know, 194 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 2: sometimes I write something and I'll look back and I'll 195 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:46,200 Speaker 2: be like, oh. 196 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 3: That was not no. I usually I think, oh that 197 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 3: was stupid, that's not right, but or it'll haunt me. 198 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 2: But this I actually think was right, which was I 199 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: said that Trump was treated as a joke and Hillary 200 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 2: was treated as a peto complay. She was sort of 201 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 2: going to be it, and he was really like a 202 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,959 Speaker 2: Joe candidate. So if you covered him, the stakes were 203 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 2: low because he had a twenty percent chance of winning. 204 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 2: Right after he won and we were grappling with how 205 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 2: to cover an autocrat that was a different story. There 206 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 2: is some feeling now, right Biden is he won once 207 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 2: against Trump. I mean, what's so interesting about being a 208 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 2: writer and being on the opinion side is that I 209 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 2: see these anxieties boil up. And sometimes they are the 210 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 2: anxieties of straight journalists and politics editors, and. 211 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 3: Sometimes they are the fantasies. 212 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 2: Right And last night at this talk that I was at, 213 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 2: Chris Hayes said, he said something brilliant. 214 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 3: He said. 215 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 2: The age issue is a great issue if you don't 216 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 2: know anything, right, Like political journalists love it because it's meaningless. Right, 217 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 2: you can say he's old, and you have to say, yes, 218 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 2: he's old, and the other guy says yes, still right, 219 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 2: and Trump is three years younger than Biden. Like fundamentally, 220 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 2: you know, it's just so meaningless. But the child tax 221 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,719 Speaker 2: credit and the nuances of legislation, something that Trump has 222 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 2: never been guilty of legislating, is more substantive and harder 223 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 2: to write about, which is true. 224 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: What you're seeing the flashbacks of Twoentown sixteen are not 225 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 1: the sort of slavish attention to Trump, but the simplicity 226 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: of storyline narratives. 227 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it's just and it's also just this 228 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 2: sort of way that the media. And again I don't 229 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,679 Speaker 2: want to blame the media, because the media is super 230 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 2: important and we're part of it, right, like the idea people, 231 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 2: right when they call out the mainstream media and they're 232 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 2: in it, it's very annoying. So I would say, I 233 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 2: think the thing that I worry about is that there 234 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 2: seems to be stories kind of come from groupthink and 235 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 2: sort of go around and sometimes they influence real like 236 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 2: sometimes they're meaningless and they go away, right like you know, 237 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 2: but they influence voting and sometimes they actually create themselves 238 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,839 Speaker 2: into being. And I think of like the Hillary email story, right, 239 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 2: like she was sloppy with her emails? 240 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 3: Is she a criminal mastermind? Now? Was she treated like 241 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:15,479 Speaker 3: she was a criminal mastermind? 242 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 2: Well, there was a question, and that's for example, like 243 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 2: the Hunter Biden gun charge, right like he didn't dispose 244 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 2: of the weapon like a federal gun charge. Okay, now 245 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 2: we go to your question. How usual is what Hunter 246 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 2: Biden was charged with? 247 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: The choices are a very unusual, be non existent, and 248 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: I can go in with b in this. You do 249 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: have to understand DOJ policies because that crimes on the books. Right, 250 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: they'll occasionally have recourse to it. But those occasions are 251 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: because of an X factor, right for example the president. Well, no, 252 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: that's that's the Y factor here, the Z factor, the 253 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 1: B factor. But no, it's like the guy who lied 254 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: on the form used the gun to commit another crust. 255 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 4: The guy who lied on the form was a straw purchaser. 256 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: The guy we happened to know is responsible for twenty 257 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: never though, just a free standing charge literally, and I've 258 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,839 Speaker 1: really plumbed the depths. I can't find a single case. 259 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: And you know, as you say, it's not simply didn't 260 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: have eleven days unloaded in the in the dumpster. 261 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 2: He throws it out, the girlfriend throws it out, and 262 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,720 Speaker 2: then they call the FBI. 263 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:33,000 Speaker 3: They wouldn't have even known about it exactly. 264 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:36,199 Speaker 4: So I'm calm and I've written you know this. 265 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:39,439 Speaker 1: He he was charged with his offense as being the 266 00:13:39,960 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 1: you know it was his last name, So. 267 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 3: That would you john question. 268 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: I just want to transmnd my gratitude because, like many. 269 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 4: Question, here we go the book. 270 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: I remember almost every scenario in the frame. 271 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 3: This is great. Oh good, So talking about my mother. 272 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 4: It was so exciting. 273 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 3: But I mean I just things I. 274 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 2: Like more than talking about So I'm going to ask 275 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 2: you about polling. No, so, oh yeah, you're my life 276 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 2: is talking about my mother sexual I mean. 277 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 1: I literally found the book on the third floor. 278 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 3: All right, well let's talk about pulling. I feel like 279 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 3: we could talk about pulling. Here's my I love this. 280 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, I know. I just will you please from yes. 281 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: Gratitude for her elevation until fifteen year old boy? 282 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 4: Yes? 283 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 3: All right, really, I can't wait to have that conversation 284 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 3: with her. 285 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 2: I'm counting to a Sidebard, Yes, I forged it. 286 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: Okay, pulling, so I this vexing question of finance, fine 287 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 1: stewardship of the economy and all these things. But besides that, 288 00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: compared to what and the Autocrat ninety one count criminal 289 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: I think you've written and I think thought quite a 290 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: lot about yes, And I think there's. 291 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 4: A sense in which the sour. 292 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: Mood of the nation, I think of Groucho Marx and 293 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,520 Speaker 1: horse feathers and whatever it is. I'm against it and whenever, 294 00:15:10,560 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: So when you say Biden, you're gonna get trapped, you 295 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: know you're gonna wind up with a tie, but it 296 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: doesn't really augur a tie electorate. And yeah, because of 297 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: polling and the mood of the electric today. 298 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 3: Thoughts okay, so national polling is bullshit and it's. 299 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 4: Mental national national. 300 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 3: Am I allowed to curse you because I don't think. 301 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 4: Of a word we haven't said on but I can't. 302 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 3: National polling is bullshed. 303 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 2: We don't elect with a popular vote number one, number two. 304 00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 2: National pulling in twenty fifteen one polls were more accurate 305 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 2: because we had more landlines, had Hillary Clinton at a 306 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 2: ninety three percent chance of winning the presidency. 307 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 4: So remember that day seven. 308 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 2: Oh no, I still from looking at that needle. So 309 00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 2: number one, that is just a meaning syndicator. I think 310 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 2: polls are you look at polls for trajectories. You look 311 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 2: at obviously if somebody drops in polls, you know, in 312 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 2: a in a sort of stratospheric way that you look 313 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 2: at that. But I think that we've seen really again 314 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 2: and again that polls tend to underrepresent, underrepresent really the truth. 315 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 2: And I think of the Lauren Beaupert Adam Fresh runoff 316 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 2: that you know that was a congressional seat. We had 317 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 2: him on on my podcast in twenty twenty one, twenty 318 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 2: twenty two before the midterm election, and everyone said, you're crazy. 319 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 3: He lost by five hundred votes. That matter. You know, 320 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 3: a producer has real PTSD when he's like five hundred. 321 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 3: But the money. 322 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 2: If he hadn't had those bad polls, he would have 323 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 2: raised more money and he would have won by seven hundred, 324 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 2: five hundred votes whatever. 325 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 4: So he polland what you said, what I'm saying. 326 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,800 Speaker 3: Than Paul, there you go, all right, getting. 327 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 4: Ahead of contact. Such a pleasure. 328 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 3: What it is? 329 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 330 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 2: every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the best minds 331 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 2: in politics makes sense of all this chaos. If you 332 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 2: enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to a friend 333 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,920 Speaker 2: and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks for listening.