1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast. 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 2: Okay, so a few things we wanted to get into 3 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 2: in the headlines. 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 3: I mentioned the cell phones thing. Yes, so there's this. 5 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 3: It was discussed. 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 2: It was one of the first topics with the launch 7 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 2: of Merritt Street Media this week. One of the first 8 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,320 Speaker 2: topics they handled on the morning news. Should cell phones 9 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 2: be banned in schools? And part of why this is 10 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 2: coming out is there's this new book out Jonathan his 11 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 2: last name is Haidt, but he's a psychologist and he 12 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,599 Speaker 2: just wrote this book, The Anxious Generation. It just came 13 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 2: out and it was instantly a New York Times bestseller. 14 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 2: And he's writing in this book all about these principles 15 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 2: of like how we've created this generation for as much 16 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 2: as our mental health awareness seems to be up and look, 17 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 2: you and I are big advocates for mental health, but 18 00:00:55,480 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 2: that we've created a mentally struggle generation. But he talks 19 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,400 Speaker 2: about the cell phone and the impact of it, and 20 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:07,399 Speaker 2: he has what he thinks should be the four new norms. 21 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: One no smartphones before high school, two no social media 22 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:20,760 Speaker 2: before age sixteen, three phone free schools, and four emphasizing 23 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 2: more independence free play and responsibility in the real world 24 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 2: amongst kids. Now, I have to say I'm behind all that, 25 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:32,960 Speaker 2: but I wanted to talk to you because even though 26 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: I parent with you with the kids, I didn't come 27 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 2: into Josh and Taylor's lives until they were teenagers. You 28 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 2: had younger kids obviously, So what do you think? No 29 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 2: smartphones before high school, no social media before sixteen, and 30 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 2: phone free schools. 31 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 3: Should cell phones be banned in schools? 32 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: One hundred percent? I agree with everything. That should be 33 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: a law mandate, send it right now. I so agree. 34 00:01:58,160 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 2: By the way, we would be a little behind on this, 35 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 2: like France, I believe it's illegal and I don't know 36 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 2: how much it's really enforced, but for kids to have 37 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 2: phones before age thirteen, to have them at all. 38 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: Doctor Phil talks about this all the time, that you 39 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:16,079 Speaker 1: can really draw a very direct line to ninety five 40 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: percent of the problems going on with the youth over medicated, 41 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: to the pharmaceuticals and suicide, loneliness up, yeah, all of it, 42 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 1: all of it. You can draw a direct line to 43 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: the time when we invented and brought out smartphones, period, 44 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 1: social media, et cetera. Everything that has ailed this generation 45 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: and really the previous one. You can go right back 46 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: to the cell phones. It is so well. 47 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:45,399 Speaker 2: And I would say the smartphone because I do think 48 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 2: like I grew up get a flip phone, right, I 49 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 2: grew up with a cell phone where I had calling. 50 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 2: And I remember when texting was invented. I was in 51 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 2: high school and at the time, I actually thought, it's 52 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 2: funny how I've changed. I remember thinking this texting thing 53 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 2: is so dumb. 54 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 3: I will never do it. 55 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 2: Why wouldn't you just call someone? And I don't think 56 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 2: cell phones and texting were bad. I mean maybe it 57 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: made us all a little overly communicative. Like you know, 58 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 2: it's funny when you tell me that you like called 59 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 2: your parents once a week from college. Sometimes I think, like, 60 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 2: should I be talking to the kids more? Should I 61 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 2: call them more? Just because I miss them? And then 62 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 2: I also want to make sure that while they're like 63 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 2: away at college, we maintain a good relationship. But then 64 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: sometimes I think, no, you know, quality over quantity, Like 65 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 2: I got dinner with Taylor this week. You had a 66 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: business dinner and I wanted to check in with Taylor 67 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 2: and see her, and a two hour dinner with her, 68 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 2: I was like, this was so great, Like we connected 69 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 2: and we had really good conversation, and I would rather 70 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: have that than like forty texts I sent her during 71 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 2: the week. 72 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 1: You know that, just because now they mean nothing and 73 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: it's not not nothing, that's too strong of a word, 74 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: but they just become less meaningful because you get thousands 75 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 1: of them a day and they just kind of roll. 76 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: Even if you say something really demonstrative and important, it's 77 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: just it's a text and you're going to get and 78 00:03:57,800 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: it may mean something just to that moment, and then 79 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: that high and the dopamine and all that's gone because 80 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: you're going to get fifty thousand more techts that day. 81 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 2: Well, I do think we all live really people live 82 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 2: more spread out lives now than they used to. I 83 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 2: think people used to kind of stay where they grew 84 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 2: up more and now we all move around the world 85 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: and we travel more, and so it is great to 86 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 2: be able to stay in touch. But I would put 87 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 2: it at social media and at smartphones number one. 88 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: If the kids need you, trust me, they're going to 89 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,359 Speaker 1: call you. I talked to Taylor this morning because she 90 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: had a really big day, and we facetimed and talked 91 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,799 Speaker 1: to each other face to face for a good thirty 92 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: minutes about something and it was good news, but she 93 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: wanted to share it that if she had texted me, 94 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: I would have texted back, great, babe, I love you. 95 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you. Boom, it's gone. Instead, we 96 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: had a meaningful conversation your dinner. The kids will reach 97 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 1: out again. Yeah. I had to pay long distance phone 98 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: bills when I was in college, and so we couldn't 99 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 1: afford it. So I called my grandmother and I and grandparents, 100 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: and I called my mom and dad on Sundays. That 101 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 1: was like my day, Sunday afternoon. I would call. 102 00:04:58,720 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 3: Everybody, but you made the time. 103 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 1: But we made the time and we had those conversations. 104 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,160 Speaker 1: And by the way, I was fine. I didn't need 105 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 1: to talk to them six days a week. So yeah, 106 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: and so I agree that, you know, if people are 107 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: out there and I think to get to a point 108 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: you were about to make, I don't know what happened 109 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: with your kids. The divorce definitely advanced things, and so 110 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: I kind of empathize with those people that are going 111 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: through divorces because you lose contact and you lose control 112 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: over your kids, and so therefore that often speeds up 113 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: the delivery of phones. I would have loved to have 114 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: been able to say, here's a flip phone you can 115 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: or a phone that doesn't have any capability other than 116 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 1: texting and a phone call period. And if you want 117 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: to give kids a smartphone that can absolutely do nothing, 118 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:45,840 Speaker 1: you could put a lock on it that they can't 119 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,799 Speaker 1: do anything. That's fine by me too. But they didn't 120 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,360 Speaker 1: need to ever have social media, and they didn't for 121 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 1: quite some time. But the divorce is what sped that up. 122 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 1: They were thirteen or fourteen, because that's when we got divorced. 123 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: Because you're like thinking, okay, I need to be able 124 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 2: to pick them up from soccer practice, or like if 125 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 2: they have to stay late after school they. 126 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 3: Got a call and you want to stay in touch too. 127 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 4: And saying well, and I hope that exists, Like there 128 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 4: should be some version of like I don't know, call 129 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 4: it kid phone where you just can make calls or 130 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 4: even only just one number, call parents, call emergency, and. 131 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 2: Like send texts. Maybe I don't know, but I do think. 132 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 2: And I was sitting here wondering, like, why hasn't this 133 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,279 Speaker 2: happened sooner? And maybe it's just because over the past 134 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 2: decade the research has been done, and now we have 135 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: the research to back it up and show something I 136 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: think we can all feel and kind of know, which 137 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 2: is that social media, while it can connect us also 138 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 2: and while it can expose us to new information into 139 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 2: seeing new things, can also be very negative. It dumps 140 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:52,919 Speaker 2: dopamine in our brain and then we get addicted to 141 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:57,000 Speaker 2: that dopamine. It can be very isolating in terms of 142 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 2: like it makes you feel like everyone else is living 143 00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 2: this life that you're not living. And kids' brains aren't 144 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: formed for that yet, their identities aren't formed for that yet. Like, 145 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 2: I think social media is potentially toxic enough for adults. 146 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 2: When I think about the fact that like young kids 147 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 2: are on it, I can't even imagine. And Bo Burnham, 148 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 2: who was this guy who got really big on Vine 149 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:21,120 Speaker 2: and then has since gone on to be like an 150 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 2: Oscar nominated screenwriter, he said he's very anti social media, 151 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 2: and he said this thing that always sticks with me. 152 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 2: He's like, when you put a kid on social media, 153 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 2: you're asking them to declare who they are to the world. 154 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 3: And they don't know who they are yet. And I thought, God, 155 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 3: that's so true. 156 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 2: Imagine if you're trying to figure out who you are 157 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 2: in front of the world. It's like we've made everybody 158 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 2: a child star, like child stars talk about how bad 159 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 2: their childhood was. 160 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 3: And that's what social media does to everyone. 161 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: The algorithm that they've created, and obviously the documentary about 162 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 1: this and it's been found, but these are you know 163 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: that this is damaging, it's driving kids to all kinds 164 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: of horrible things. These are facts we know this. Congress 165 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: knows this, the President knows this, everybody knows that this 166 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: is harmful and bad. But these are billion dollar companies, 167 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 1: so they have people fighting for them in Congress, people 168 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 1: fighting for them on every level. So nothing changes. You know, 169 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 1: you'll hear about cases here and there. They get hauled 170 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: before Congress and they do the dog and pony show. 171 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, nothing's going to 172 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: change because of money. It's not even debatable. It's not 173 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: going to change because these people have the money, they 174 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: have the purse strings, and so I don't know where 175 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: you go from that other than this lies within the parents' 176 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: hands and we're the ones that will have to decide 177 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: and make these hard choices. 178 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 2: And I understand how hard that can be, because when 179 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 2: you're a parent you're also having a parent based on 180 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: what other parents are doing, because your kids coming home 181 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 2: and they're like, well, everybody else has a phone, and 182 00:08:57,880 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 2: I can't keep in touch with everyone, and you feel 183 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 2: like you're isolating your kid. But I do think we're 184 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 2: just at that tipping point now where like it's not 185 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: even that you're speculating or you're sensing, it's that the 186 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 2: research is showing. 187 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 3: And I mean I'm seeing all these like headlines. 188 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 5: Research shows kids need more risky play, Research shows kids 189 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 5: should get outside more. Research shows kids need to be 190 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 5: more independent. Like I I do, I wish and I 191 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:30,600 Speaker 5: hope that our government would do things like I think 192 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:32,199 Speaker 5: what I compare it to a lot is I grew 193 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 5: up with DARE, the DARE program, like resist drugs at school. 194 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 5: It's getting to the point that we know that social media. 195 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 2: Is addictive like a drug, and like we might I think, 196 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 2: I wish the government would step in and regulated, but 197 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: like you said, maybe with money they won't. 198 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: The lobbyists that they have the power that they have 199 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: over these companies. And it's also you can go so 200 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: deep on this about you know, favored nations of like, look, 201 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: we're not going to do this but we have an 202 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: election coming up. We need you to censor this or 203 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: say this or The algorithm works in a lot of 204 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: different ways, and you know, obviously all that got exposed 205 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 1: when Elon Musk took over, then Twitter, now X and 206 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: so it goes deep and they know they know what 207 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:14,680 Speaker 1: they're doing, they know they're harming kids, but they're not 208 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: going to turn These are public companies and they have 209 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: shareholders to answer to, and so I ultimately all of 210 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: this comes back to the choices you make as a parent, 211 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: and you you know it's it's you fight that fight 212 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: as hard as you can for as long as you can. 213 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most 214 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: dramatic pod ever and make sure to write us a 215 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you 216 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: next time.