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Speaker 1: Warning.

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Speaker 2: This episode contains spoilers for the Book of Boffette chapter six,

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Speaker 2: plus spoilers for Station eleven, which if you haven't finished

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Speaker 2: that series, definitely don't listen to those segments.

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Speaker 1: You have been warned.

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Speaker 2: And also, I'm not gonna tweet about Book of Boba

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Speaker 2: Fett anymore after I watch it. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: spoil anything anymore. I'm gonna be very careful from now on.

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Speaker 1: Hello, my name is Jason Sepcion.

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Speaker 2: Welcome next to Revision the Crooked podcast, where we dive

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Speaker 2: deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics, and pop culture.

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Speaker 2: In today's episode, I'm previously on, we will be discussing

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Speaker 2: lots of news Halo trailer, the Amazon's Lord of the

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Speaker 2: Ring poster drop, Dakota Johnson's Madam Web. In the Airlock,

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Speaker 2: we will be talking about the Book of Boba fet

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Speaker 2: chapter six, The Omnibus, a discussion about Statial eleven's place

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Speaker 2: in the post apocalyptic genre. In the Hive Mind, we

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Speaker 2: are joined by Station eleven showrunner Patrick Somerville and our

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Speaker 2: nerd Out will be an argument for the work of

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Speaker 2: Mike Flanagan, particularly Midnight Mass and in the Endgame, we

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Speaker 2: ponder o our own pop cultural artifacts in a Station

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Speaker 2: eleven frame. Today we are joined by the legendary, the great,

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Speaker 2: the brilliant, the funny, the number one co host, Rosie Knight.

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Speaker 1: Rosie, how are you? How's your week? Bit?

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Speaker 3: Wow, it was so lovely after that introduction. Yeah, things

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Speaker 3: they're going, well, it's you know, it's twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 3: We're surviving. How are you doing?

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Speaker 2: It was bybe surviving. We're grinding through. You know, It's

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Speaker 2: it's same exact thing. We are surviving. It is twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty two. The world is what it is. But you know,

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Speaker 2: we can, we can get on here and hopefully provide

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Speaker 2: a recipe from that.

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Speaker 1: Let's go to the news.

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Speaker 2: Okay, First up, the full Halo trailer reveal. This is

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Speaker 2: the Halo, the long awaited really Halo adaption television show

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Speaker 2: for Paramount Plus, developed and written by Kyle Killen and

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Speaker 2: Stephen Kin. I'm just excited for this, Listen. I've been

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Speaker 2: waiting for a Halo property for a long time. I

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Speaker 2: remain convinced that the various commercials produced for the release

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Speaker 2: of Halo three, as well as odst are some of

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Speaker 2: the best non video game video game adaption stuff that

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Speaker 2: has ever taken place. I'm pretty excited about it looks

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Speaker 2: really really good.

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Speaker 1: What did you think?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it looked really cool. I'm really interested. Well, one,

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Speaker 3: I think it's kind of it's one of those ironic

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Speaker 3: glad it took so long because it just looks brilliant,

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Speaker 3: Like they have the money and the practical and the

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Speaker 3: CG and everything to make it look lived in but

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Speaker 3: still recognizably like the game. I'm just really interested in

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Speaker 3: what it's going to take from and kind of like

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Speaker 3: is it going to be like influenced by the novels?

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Speaker 3: Like is it going to be I'm just I'm really

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Speaker 3: interested to see where it goes because I feel like

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Speaker 3: prestige TV and video game adaptations is something that we

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Speaker 3: haven't really seen done in like a really big budget way.

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Speaker 3: So it will be interesting to see if maybe the

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Speaker 3: reason that people haven't loved a lot of video and

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Speaker 3: I love a lot of video game movies, but like

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Speaker 3: maybe the reason that that hasn't hit is maybe what

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Speaker 3: we really needed was this long form narrative storytelling as

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Speaker 3: a way to bring out and build out these worlds.

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Speaker 2: That's an interesting point. I think I remain convinced that

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Speaker 2: part of the reason that people don't like video game

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Speaker 2: adaptations into into movies in particular is just like they

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Speaker 2: haven't been good a lot of times, you know, like

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Speaker 2: it's very it's like very super from the super simple,

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Speaker 2: you know, the super simple reasoning being that they haven't

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Speaker 2: been very good. Assassin's Creed was one of thos, like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this will be great because you know we can it.

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Speaker 1: Can just like hang its hat on action.

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Speaker 2: And then like bizarrely, everything was colored so darkly you

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Speaker 2: couldn't even see what was happening, so like that part

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Speaker 2: of it was out and to say nothing of like

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Speaker 2: how crazy Assassin's Creed lore is.

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Speaker 3: I also think like people who make video game adaptations

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Speaker 3: a lot of times they don't necessarily seem like people

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Speaker 3: who love video games, because like, yeah, I always think

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Speaker 3: about how one of those classic kind of pop culture

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Speaker 3: mottos is like Scott Pilgrim is the best video game

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Speaker 3: movie ever made because it loves video games, understands video

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Speaker 3: game actions, but it's not a video game adaptation, you know.

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Speaker 3: So I think it's really interesting to kind of see

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Speaker 3: with Halo, with you know, the Last of Us That's coming,

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Speaker 3: these are movies where the game has been a part

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Speaker 3: of the people who's made it. It's kind of formative

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Speaker 3: experience as a gamer and then going on to being

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Speaker 3: an adult. They're franchises that have been around for a

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Speaker 3: really long time, and I think it will be interesting

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Speaker 3: to see if that changes the way that they're approached

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Speaker 3: and kind of quality that we get.

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Speaker 2: Well, I will say that, you know, we've talked about

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Speaker 2: it here on the show a little bit. Eric Nyland's

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Speaker 2: Halo novels, particularly the first three Fall of Reach, First Strike,

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Speaker 2: and Ghostsavonics, are legitimately great. They're like really good sci

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Speaker 2: fi you've never If you've never played Halo, you don't

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Speaker 2: care about it. Yeah, those are a fun read in

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Speaker 2: a it's like Starship Troopers crossed with Enders Game in

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Speaker 2: that yes, they are very militaristic, but it's like a

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Speaker 2: very jaundiced, cynical view of militarism in the context of

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Speaker 2: like a galactic space war against an alliance of alien races.

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Speaker 2: So they've got a lot of great material to pull from,

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Speaker 2: and my senses that you know, just judging from the

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Speaker 2: trailer that we're gonna get a lot of flashbacks.

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Speaker 1: They'll be the current storyline, which.

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Speaker 2: Is Master Chief, the first Encounters with the Covenant and

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Speaker 2: the kind of like broader mystery about the creation of

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Speaker 2: Kurtana and what and Kurtana's role in kind of like

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Speaker 2: Covenant religion and ideology, that kind of like being the

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Speaker 2: core mystery of the show. And then I think, threaded

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Speaker 2: through that, we're gonna get a lot of flashbacks about

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Speaker 2: the Spartan program, the development of the Spartans, the use

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Speaker 2: of children as these like super soldiers, and this kind

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Speaker 2: of very obliquely critical view of militarism and the use

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Speaker 2: of children as soldiers, which is very president of the book.

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Speaker 2: So I'm that for that, I'm excited.

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Speaker 1: And it just looks great. It looks really good.

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Speaker 2: Up next, Amazon's Lord of the Rings posters, which dropped

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Speaker 2: on February third on social media, And I have not

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Speaker 2: had a chance to really like dig into like who

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Speaker 2: might be in those posters, but they fucking look great.

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Speaker 2: They look great, They look they look really really good.

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Speaker 2: There are let's see.

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Speaker 3: To twenty two, twenty two, I think, so, oh my god.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, like diving into who these characters are, what race

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Speaker 2: they might be, what faction they might represent, is ongoing,

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Speaker 2: and I've not had a chance to do it. But

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Speaker 2: I'll just say that this inspires a lot of confidence

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Speaker 2: and excitement from me.

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Speaker 1: What are your thoughts?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I love so In case you haven't seen them,

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Speaker 3: like you can see them online, they're basically like every

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Speaker 3: poster is a character's hand holding something, Yes, and it

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Speaker 3: can be a flower, an apple, a weapon. And you know,

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Speaker 3: we talked about the introductory sequence that they showed that

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Speaker 3: was the title sequence and how it was made practically

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Speaker 3: where they were pouring this hot metal through the wood

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Speaker 3: and everything, and you were like, this is about craft. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: they're showing us the craft. And I feel like that

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Speaker 3: comes into these posters. It's not a even though it's

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Speaker 3: a repeating patan, every single photo is telling you something

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Speaker 3: about a character, even if you don't know who it is.

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Speaker 3: And there's it's lived in and there's texture and the

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Speaker 3: weaponry and props look amazing. But I also really love

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Speaker 3: that it's not all weapons like it has that yes,

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Speaker 3: there's somewhere they're holding like berries. It has that the Hobbit,

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Speaker 3: you know, potatoes like singing, kind of the cute see

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Speaker 3: the lived in countryside aspects of the Hobbit, and and

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Speaker 3: the kind of the Lord of the rings world that

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Speaker 3: people also love, like it's the corresponding thing people they love,

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Speaker 3: they love a fight, they love a young but they

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Speaker 3: also love like you know, masham bashum, stick of ministew

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Speaker 3: or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Like it's a great point. It creates the feeling.

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Speaker 2: And this is so important for sci fi, for fantasy,

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Speaker 2: for all the kind of like genres that we cover,

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Speaker 2: but particularly for a story like this, and because of

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Speaker 2: its placement in the in the Cannon, it creates the

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Speaker 2: feeling of a lived in world because you're absolutely right,

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Speaker 2: Like you know, there's one that is a person holding

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Speaker 2: a sickle in their hands are dirty and the cloak

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Speaker 2: looks frayed, and it is like this person just like

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Speaker 2: walked in from the fields or wherever they came from.

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Speaker 2: And then there's another one that I really love. That's

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Speaker 2: someone in a kind of more of a scarlet cloak

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Speaker 2: with a few rings on their hands, and their hands

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Speaker 2: are resting on a large hammer with the rooms on it,

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Speaker 2: and their hands are covered in gold dust and it

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Speaker 2: just looks like they came from the forge or came

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Speaker 2: from the workshop or wherever to poast for this that

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Speaker 2: is the kind of thing that makes me feel like

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Speaker 2: I think they get what they're supposed to be making here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think something that's really cool as well

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Speaker 3: is like, so there's the I'm looking at them on

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Speaker 3: polygon dot com and the way they have them laid

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Speaker 3: out is there's one woman who's holding a book and

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Speaker 3: she's wearing this red dress, and her hands are absolutely clean,

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Speaker 3: her nails are perfectly rounded, and you can obviously tell

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Speaker 3: like she's lived a sort of maybe academic life, a

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Speaker 3: fancy life whatever, and underneath is like an older hand

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Speaker 3: that's covered in dust and and holding an apple in

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Speaker 3: like worn peasant clothes. Just little details where this is

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Speaker 3: not generic. Yeah, you know a lot of these things,

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Speaker 3: it would just be like essentially almost the same model,

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Speaker 3: and they just like swap out whatever was in the

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Speaker 3: hands or something. But this is like, yeah, it's the

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Speaker 3: craft aspect they want to tell you, like, we get it.

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Speaker 3: We're taking time, we're going to make this feel like

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Speaker 3: a lived in world. We're going to make those millions

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Speaker 3: of dollars, you know, count and do something that's very interesting.

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Speaker 3: So I think this is and I love how they

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Speaker 3: just continue to not tell anyone who anyone's playing. I

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Speaker 3: don't feel like they're like, here's some his twenty two

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Speaker 3: character posters, and you still don't know who's in this.

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Speaker 2: Show, the Wonderful slow Burn, Like it is just really

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Speaker 2: really exciting. And then of course, like the final picture

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Speaker 2: that they posted is Soren's gloved hand gripping his sword.

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Speaker 2: I wonder if we're going to get and I wonder

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Speaker 2: if the world is ready for like a hot Souron

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Speaker 2: because canonically he's supposed to be a very very active person,

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Speaker 2: so that.

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Speaker 1: Is I can't wait to see if that happens. But

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Speaker 1: this is just terribly.

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Speaker 2: Exciting, just really, I am trying not to get my

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Speaker 2: hopes up for this, but it really feels like they

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Speaker 2: get it. They get the vibe that they need to

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Speaker 2: present to make this feel like the epic story that

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Speaker 2: it is. Up next, crazy casting news from Deadline.

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Speaker 1: Dakota Johnson, who we both.

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Speaker 2: Love, is quirky and finally, and you know, no one's

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Speaker 2: better at taking down Ellen to her face than Dakota Johnson.

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Speaker 2: Dakota Johnson will play Madam Webb Marvel's Madam Web in

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Speaker 2: Sony's Expanding Spider Man mcu ish Interconnected Spider Universe, and

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Speaker 2: I love Dakota Johnson. This is not who I would

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Speaker 2: have thought would have been cast for Madam Webb.

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Speaker 1: But wild news your thoughts on this.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't really know, Like Madame Webb is

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Speaker 3: like clinically like an old cool lady, like an old lady,

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Speaker 3: and then she's like a psychic or whatever. But like,

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Speaker 3: I don't know, this is very interesting.

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Speaker 1: I think it.

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Speaker 3: Fits into this Sony Unexpected great weird kind of like

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Speaker 3: villain universe that they're kind of building with like Venom

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Speaker 3: and Morebis if that ever comes out.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 3: Also, I will say, like this sounds really cool, But

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Speaker 3: Sony does like announce like five movies for everyone movie

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Speaker 3: that comes out, this is your movie, don't get your hopes.

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Speaker 2: So we're still waiting for that one, like Black Cat

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Speaker 2: Silver a Stable like you know.

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Speaker 3: So, but this is very interesting to me, especially because

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Speaker 3: Dakota just produced and starred in a couple of movies

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Speaker 3: that I think were at like Sundance and that, and

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Speaker 3: she and she did all these interviews about like making

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Speaker 3: these small movies and and kind of thing, and you know,

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Speaker 3: obviously she had the franchise stuff with Fifty Shades of Gray,

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Speaker 3: which I'm sure she doesn't want to repeat. So This

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Speaker 3: is almost like a Robert Pattinson level surprise to me

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Speaker 3: of casting, and I am a big Robert Pattinson. I

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Speaker 3: think that's a great idea. Yeah, but but yeah, so

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Speaker 3: I think this is really interesting. I hope that if

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Speaker 3: this is the case, they're not going to do like

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Speaker 3: blind Madam Webb, because nobody needs to see CoA. Johnson

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Speaker 3: pretending to be blind, Like, would it have been cool

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Speaker 3: if they'd have built that and tell.

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Speaker 2: Us about tell us about the character. O fill folks

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Speaker 2: in on a character. Maybe, you know, unless you're unless

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Speaker 2: you're a I've watched like the Spider Man animated series

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Speaker 2: from the nineties, or you know, or a deep cut.

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Speaker 2: Let's say, she's not really that deep. But like, unless

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Speaker 2: you're a true spiderhead, you might not be aware of her.

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Speaker 3: If you watch the cartoons, you probably have come across, yes,

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Speaker 3: and if you read the comics less likely. But like

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Speaker 3: her first appearance was Amazing Spider Man two ten, created

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Speaker 3: by two icons, which is Dennie O'Neil and Johnny Junior

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Speaker 3: two greats. Yeah, and she is sort of like a

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Speaker 3: it depends on the canon unity stuff shifts, but basically

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Speaker 3: she's born blind. But because of that, she get powerful

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Speaker 3: psychic abilities. You knows one in the comics, if one

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Speaker 3: of your you know, one of your senses is gone,

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Speaker 3: the rest of them are getting great. And she is

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Speaker 3: presented at first as like a kind of like spiritualist,

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Speaker 3: like Charlatan or whatever. But soon she becomes like, actually, oh,

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Speaker 3: she kind of is does have these powers, And the

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Speaker 3: most interesting thing about her is like, is she a villain?

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Speaker 3: Is she an ally? She definitely lives in that kind

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Speaker 3: of gray area, which actually a lot of Spider Man's

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Speaker 3: villains do, I guess when you think about it. So

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Speaker 3: also she is like one of the This is like

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Speaker 3: really interesting because in my opinion, Dakota would have been

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Speaker 3: a great Jessica Drew casting so and Jessica Drew, Spider

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Speaker 3: Woman and Madam Webb are like connected in this story

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Speaker 3: called Spider Women, where a younger version of Madam Webb

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Speaker 3: teams up with Jessica Drew and Julia Carpenter, who are

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Speaker 3: the first two Spider Women. Like officially, recently a Spider

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Speaker 3: Man Superstori's issue came out where they showed the first

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Speaker 3: Spider Woman who was actually a black woman. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: these first two Spider Women and they make this team

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Speaker 3: called Spider Women, and uh, that is like kind of

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Speaker 3: I think probably what we're gonna see because that one,

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Speaker 3: I kind of forgot that she in that one, she's

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Speaker 3: like rejuvenated and eager, and I think like Marvel has

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Speaker 3: yet Marvel Studios, I should say, has yet to really

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Speaker 3: do any kind of like team female heroes. And it's

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Speaker 3: like one of the things that I think people have

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Speaker 3: often critiqued them for. You know, in the moment, they

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Speaker 3: did do an endgame for some people that was like

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Speaker 3: super powerful, and for some people it felt a little

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Speaker 3: bit hollow. So I think if Sony is being smart,

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Speaker 3: they may want to kind of find.

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Speaker 1: A way to jump the gun. Jump the gun on

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Speaker 1: mar jump the gun.

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Speaker 3: But also, I don't know whether the Jessica Drew thing

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Speaker 3: seems that likely because I think that if I'm not mistaken, like, so,

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Speaker 3: this is gonna get really okay. So okay. So recently

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Speaker 3: they cast Amelia Clark in Secret Invasion, right, and one

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Speaker 3: of the things when they cast her, everyone was like, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: if she's playing Aranke like the Scroll Queen, she could

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Speaker 3: also play Jessica Drew Because a lot of Secret Invasion

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Speaker 3: has Arank being Jessica Drew. So maybe this is gonna

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Speaker 3: be a marvelous Sony crossover. Maybe we could see Madam

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Speaker 3: Webb and Amelia Clark. I think that after the success

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Speaker 3: of No Way Home, there is probably a lot Even

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Speaker 3: though Sony probably wants to make a lot of that

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Speaker 3: money themselves, the true power is when the two companies

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Speaker 3: work together, like we've seen that, that's where that money

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Speaker 3: comes from. So yes, Madam Webb, lots of connections, very funny,

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Speaker 3: unexpected young casting. But I like the chaotic nature of

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Speaker 3: this cast thing well.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing is, you know, it could be

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Speaker 2: like the rise of Madam Web's story. Also like so

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Speaker 2: that we eventually get the older Madam Web when we

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Speaker 2: actually hit the MCU proper. All of that said, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's a little bit trophy, but I do love a

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Speaker 2: blind character that can see the future. It's a toss

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Speaker 2: up between Destiny and Madam Webb for me on which.

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Speaker 1: I'm a Destiny. I'm a love lesbian. I love Destiny.

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Speaker 2: I just when when Destiny is muttering some strange stuff

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Speaker 2: that you don't understand, you must pay attention.

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Speaker 3: I think this is really interesting and I think it's

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Speaker 3: gonna if it happens. I think we can see it

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Speaker 3: happening soon.

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Speaker 1: Oh interesting, Okay, Well.

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Speaker 3: I think it's probably because like this is a this

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Speaker 3: is a classic multiverse situation, and not in the sense

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Speaker 3: of like how we've seen it used in the MCU,

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Speaker 3: but in the sense of the way that these studios

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Speaker 3: use it as a get out. So like Jessica Drew

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Speaker 3: is gonna be in into the Spider Use too, played

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Speaker 3: by Isa Ray, and we already know that in into

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Speaker 3: the Spider Verse, you know, Spider Gwen is played by

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Speaker 3: Hailey Stemfeld who played Kate Bishop and Hawkeye Kevin Findy

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Speaker 3: Big into the Spider Verse. Fat, I think because so

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Speaker 3: many of those people came to the MCU, So I

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Speaker 3: just think they really used that multiversal comic book aspect

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Speaker 3: of you can have multiple characters living in multiple different worlds.

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Speaker 3: So I think you're right on that. We could definitely

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Speaker 3: see an older Madam Webb in.

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Speaker 2: The really exciting stuff. Up next, an incredible episode of

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Speaker 2: the Book of Boba fet. We are stepping out of

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Speaker 2: the airlock to dive into chapter six of the Book

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Speaker 2: of Boba Fett titled.

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Speaker 1: From the Desert Comes a Stranger, written.

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Speaker 2: By Jon Favreau and Dave Filoni and directed with a

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Speaker 2: plume by Dave Filoni. Let's go into the recap. I

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Speaker 2: kept thinking about the line from there will be blood.

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Speaker 2: I'm a burner, my child, I'm a blood.

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Speaker 1: You'll see where that comes in later.

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Speaker 2: Okay, we open on tattooing moss Pelgo Territories, the Bailey

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Speaker 2: Wick of one very very handsome Cob vanf a Pike.

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Speaker 2: Spice deal is taking place amongst the moisture evaporators here,

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Speaker 2: and that draws Cobb's attention. Cobb tells the gangsters, Hey, listen, baby,

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Speaker 2: guys got lost.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what the deal is.

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Speaker 2: That's fine, but and I know moss Pelgo not on

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Speaker 2: a lot of people's Google maps.

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Speaker 1: But let me just fill you in. I'm the law here.

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Speaker 2: I'm the marshall of the moss Pelgo territories, and by

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Speaker 2: the power vested in me by these three red lines

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Speaker 2: on my belt buckle.

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Speaker 1: That's all you need is three red.

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Speaker 2: Lines on the belt buckle that tells you that I

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Speaker 2: am enforcing the law here, which means you guys have

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Speaker 2: to live by my role of no spice deealing. Sorry,

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Speaker 2: but I'll let you off with the warning you can,

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Speaker 2: you know, take your credits and leave no harm enough oul,

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Speaker 2: everybody can walk away credits. The Pikes say no, and

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Speaker 2: then Cobb guns three of them down, leaving the last

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Speaker 2: to drive off and warn the rest of the Tell

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Speaker 2: the rest of the Pikes, hey, let's not fuck with Mospelgo.

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Speaker 2: And we learn also that Cob Vans is incorruptible because

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Speaker 2: like there's a box of spice there that is enough

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Speaker 2: money that he could retire to a wonderful, you know,

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Speaker 2: vacation planet somewhere in the galaxy, and Cod Vans is like, nah,

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Speaker 2: I'm just dump it all out, which I don't know.

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Speaker 1: If that's wise.

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Speaker 2: Cobb like the we could we not like use what

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Speaker 2: about using the money there for like some infrastructure projects

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Speaker 2: here in Mospelgo. It's kind of tough out here.

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Speaker 3: You say, times are tough.

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Speaker 1: Times are tough, you know.

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Speaker 2: Soon after, Din Jarren arrives in his new Starfighter somewhere

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Speaker 2: on a planet that is teeming green with life. He's

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Speaker 2: following a beacon broadcast by our old friend R two

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Speaker 2: D two loved to see. R two dinn arrives to

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Speaker 2: find Luke's Jedi temple, you know, with please excuse our

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Speaker 2: appearance signs everywhere currently under construction by various insect like droids.

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Speaker 2: Let me just say this, these insect droids, they work

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Speaker 2: too slowly. Like it we're seeing we see one tower, right,

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Speaker 2: and the droids are there's a lot of them, and

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Speaker 2: they're moving back and forth, putting like one stone up

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Speaker 2: at a time. Okay, but there's a lot of them,

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Speaker 2: and every time we cut back to this temple, it's

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Speaker 2: not any bigger, and like and and when when did

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Speaker 2: this building start construction? Like two hours before? Didn't arrived?

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Speaker 2: Like what is why is this moving so slowly? Anyway,

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Speaker 2: that's all that's why one note for the droids.

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Speaker 1: Let's pick it up, guys.

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Speaker 3: That's the Jedi way. It taken too long to do

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Speaker 3: something like you gotta take your time that droids.

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Speaker 5: Luke.

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Speaker 3: I mean, also, couldn't he just build it with the force?

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Speaker 2: I mean, wouldn't that be a great lesson for young Grogu.

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Speaker 2: But listen, I like in in Luke's defense, and I

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Speaker 2: thought about this a lot when you talk about this

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Speaker 2: as we get to this part. But he doesn't, I

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Speaker 2: think yet, have access or understanding of the ancient Jedi

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Speaker 2: texts and also, you know, Yoda was like, hey, retrain

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Speaker 2: the Jedi. You got to start the Jedi temple again

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Speaker 2: without any like lesson planner. There's no instructions about it. It

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Speaker 2: would just kind of like start cheating Jedi. Okay, how

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Speaker 2: don't worry about it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, we all know Yoda was not the most consistent mental.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's very, very true. So Dinn arrives and he's like, hey,

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Speaker 2: R two, great to see you again. Where is my

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Speaker 2: son aka the kid aka Grogu aka little baby Yodes

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Speaker 2: where's he at? And R two is like, I gotta

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Speaker 2: go in arrest mode. Good night, he goes to sleep.

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Speaker 1: He goes like sleep, what elsewhere?

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Speaker 2: Luke and Grogu or meditating under the shade of a

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Speaker 2: tree near a swamp, and Grogu, you know, should be

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Speaker 2: concentrating on his lesson plan.

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Speaker 1: But he is.

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Speaker 2: He's fifty, but he is a child's little little baby,

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Speaker 2: and he gets distracted by a frog and he's like

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Speaker 2: that frog looks fucking delicious.

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Speaker 1: He lifts it up with.

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Speaker 2: The force, and Luke is like, okay, Grogu, first of all,

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Speaker 2: concentrate on your lessons. Second of all, look what happens

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Speaker 2: if you concentrate on your lessons, you get good at this,

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Speaker 2: And Luke lifts every frog in the swamp up and

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Speaker 2: as if to say, look at you could just like

433
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,919
Speaker 2: eat frogs all day long if you get good at this,

434
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 2: And Grogu has a look on his face like, are

435
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 2: you telling me that you could have been feeding me

436
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 2: all these frogs all this time?

437
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: This is unbelievable.

438
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 2: Luke and Grogu go for a walk, and Luke tells

439
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 2: Grogu about Yoda and making sure to note his old

440
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,120
Speaker 2: master's kind of like inscrutable nature and very.

441
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: Distinct sentence construction.

442
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 2: He's like, that's how he talked in riddles, and he

443
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 2: asks Grogu, grog Di, do you ever remember anybody else

444
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 2: talking like that? And for a second, I'm like, oh

445
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 2: my god, we're gonna maybe find out, like where the

446
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 2: home world of Yoda the home world of Krogu, But

447
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 2: we don't get that. Luke uses the Force to help

448
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 2: unlock Grogu's memories, and we see a vision of Order

449
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:13,880
Speaker 2: sixty six Clone troopers gunning down three Jedi, and as

450
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 2: the troopers close on Grogu, the vision ends. This was

451
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,959
Speaker 2: super super wild and exciting and unexpected. I was not

452
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 2: expecting to see this.

453
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I really liked the implication that when Luke

454
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 3: asks Grogu about home, home to him is the Jedi Temple.

455
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 3: I think that I think that tells us a lot

456
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 3: about who could possibly have saved him or or kind

457
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 3: of and and Luke gets into that a little bit

458
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 3: more when he says, you know, it's not like I'm

459
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 3: teaching him, it's more like he's remembering.

460
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: So that was actually that is that felt very big

461
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: to me.

462
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, so like he is a Jedi. Yeah, he has

463
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 3: been there. And I thought that was really great. And

464
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 3: also it's it's the ultimate tease because I think everyone

465
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 3: in the world was like, oh my god, they're finally

466
00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 3: going to show where Yoda comes from.

467
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:57,360
Speaker 1: And George Lucas was.

468
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,359
Speaker 3: Like, no, no, he's in skywalk around She's text and

469
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 3: Dave Faloni He's like, don't you fucking that.

470
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 2: Is Let's talk about how Grogu escapes that situation. It's

471
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: very very interesting to consider what happens then. We know

472
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 2: from past episodes of The Mandalorian that Grogu was taken

473
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:17,680
Speaker 2: from the temple.

474
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: We don't know how or where or take him to

475
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:20,280
Speaker 1: where and.

476
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 2: That then in order to climb of like as a

477
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 2: self protection mechanism to like hide who he is because

478
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: he sees this incident is so traumatic, and of course

479
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 2: it is so traumatic for the galaxy and for the Jedi,

480
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 2: but it caused him to want to hide his connection

481
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 2: to the force. So I wonder if you have any

482
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:43,800
Speaker 2: ideas about how he possibly got out of here. That

483
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 2: Reddit has been popping off with the theory that you

484
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 2: can see barras Offi's the Jedi Barris off He's sign

485
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,719
Speaker 2: on either side of the hallway here. Baris Offie at

486
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,120
Speaker 2: this time was like unaccounted for, so it could possibly

487
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:58,479
Speaker 2: be the Jedi barrass Offie.

488
00:25:58,560 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: But what do you have any idea?

489
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 3: I think, like, I think that's really makes a lot

490
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 3: of sense. I also think like Jacasta Knew, who was

491
00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 3: like the Jedi Orders librarian, because they were at the

492
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,000
Speaker 3: Jedi Temple on Cross Currant, So there's like I think

493
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 3: that basically like anyone we know, it's not like Yoda

494
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,320
Speaker 3: or Obi Wan who directly did it because they went

495
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 3: at the Jedi Temple during Order sixty six. But like,

496
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 3: I just think it's really interesting and I'm very beforehand,

497
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 3: like when I watched the Mandalorian, I definitely thought it

498
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 3: would be more of like a Jedi. We're going to

499
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 3: introduce the new Jedi and they saved him. Maybe it's

500
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,360
Speaker 3: like a Padawan because we know, like you know, there's

501
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 3: a comic book that I'll bring up later that's very

502
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 3: intrinsic to this episode of Star Wars comic and it

503
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 3: kind of promotes that, i'd Yoda is the last Jedi.

504
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 3: That was never the case. There's so many Jedis hanging around,

505
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 3: so it could have been a Padawan, could have been

506
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 3: someone else who survived. But the way that this show

507
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 3: is taking and these series in general are taking so

508
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 3: much joy and introducing these characters that people love like

509
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 3: and reintroducing them, I think it is going to be

510
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,959
Speaker 3: someone that fans already know who has a presence in

511
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 3: the Star Wars universe, whether it's in the animated stuff

512
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 3: or the book. So I'm very interested to see who

513
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:12,479
Speaker 3: the reveal was. And this was an episode full of

514
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 3: blackout edits on choice on things about baby Yoda. Way,

515
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 3: You're just like I need to know, so good good

516
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 3: for you, Dave Filoni. You really killed it with this one.

517
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 2: I wonder if the clones just take him, you know,

518
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:27,480
Speaker 2: in that moment, and then if there's no like actual

519
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 2: rescue in that moment or in later years, because the

520
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 2: clothes are kind of like right there and they've already

521
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 2: killed three Jedi, I wonder if they don't take Baby

522
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 2: Yoda somewhere for study, and that's where that makes so

523
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 2: much spense, so much of like his early years, and

524
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 2: then later, you know, for whatever reason, the collapse of

525
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 2: the Empire, et cetera, he is then you know, like

526
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 2: taken by mof Gideon and and his like splinter cells,

527
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 2: like continue research on Baby Yoda. But I do wonder

528
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: if the answer is kind of like maybe maybe he

529
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 2: was never rescued.

530
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 3: No, I think that's a really good point, because actually

531
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,280
Speaker 3: we know that he you know, they wanted to test

532
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,719
Speaker 3: on him for this like snoke, you know, rebuilding or whatever,

533
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 3: so there is always a chance, and that would also

534
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 3: explain why his memory is essentially wiped. Like if he

535
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 3: was saved by a loving Jedi, surely they would have

536
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 3: kept teaching him the way and they would have built

537
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 3: on the stuff that he already knew. Unless I suppose

538
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 3: you could maybe like he got saved by a Jedi

539
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:30,520
Speaker 3: and they wiped his brain with the Force to protect

540
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 3: him before or maybe that he didn't get saved, but

541
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 3: somebody wiped his brain with from the Force so that

542
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 3: the you know, the Clones wouldn't be able to find

543
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 3: out the secrets of the Jedi or something. But yeah,

544
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,200
Speaker 3: I think that's actually really interesting and quite heart breaking point,

545
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 3: like maybe there was never a rescue.

546
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe there's never a rescue.

547
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 2: And then, you know, to be like slightly cynical about it,

548
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 2: I think that there's also a world in which if

549
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 2: you go that route, you know, you could tie in

550
00:28:54,880 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: the bad Batch, you know, with with Baby Yoda and

551
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: with the Mandalorian somehow. Yeah, and we already have a

552
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:09,959
Speaker 2: classic Star Wars like circular kind of like intersections of properties.

553
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 3: Especially because we already get like a bad Batch. We'll

554
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 3: get to it, but there is already a connection to

555
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 3: the bad Batch in this episode. So I think you're

556
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 3: really right to think about it in that cyclical sense

557
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 3: of mocking and storytelling.

558
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 2: Din wakes up to find Ahsoka, our great friend Ahsoka

559
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 2: Tano standing watch. It's unclear what Ahsoka is doing back

560
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 2: in the neighborhood that she did, you know, definitely paries

561
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 2: the question, which I found I found suspicious and notable,

562
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 2: and it's like, what are you doing here?

563
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: And Ahsoka is like, I mean, what are you doing here?

564
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: And then just lets it go.

565
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 6: He just didn't see the baby, doesn't He's like, I

566
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 6: don't know, I was just being polite.

567
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 2: He's just so focused on the baby. He immediately says like,

568
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 2: I want to seehim. Where's Yeah, where is he? I

569
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 2: want to see the kid?

570
00:29:58,800 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: Uh?

571
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: And Ahsoka is like, okay, let's go for a walk.

572
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 2: And Asoka then lectures Din about that old Jedi bugaboo,

573
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 2: the emotional attachments.

574
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's this crazy, you know, like I warned you,

575
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 1: it is a bad rule. We'll get into that in

576
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: a little bit.

577
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 2: We'll get deeper into that, you know, get that old

578
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,240
Speaker 2: lecture and being like, listen, I warned you when you

579
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 2: left him, it was it was gonna be hard to

580
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 2: break your attachment.

581
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: Din.

582
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 2: Of course, as a Mandalorian, for them, loyalty is like

583
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 2: best car it is it is strong and unbreakable.

584
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: Uh.

585
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 2: And to to dint, Grogu is a Mandalorian foundling and

586
00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 2: therefore a member of the tribe, and didn't has to

587
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: know that he's safe. That's part of his responsibility. And

588
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 2: of course like also didn't loves Grogu, so like it's

589
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 2: there's a lot of intersecting emotions here. Ahsoka leads Din

590
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: to within sight of grow you can see him up

591
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 2: there on the little with Luke studying a little little head,

592
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: and uh. She asks, okay, what do you what do

593
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,840
Speaker 2: you what do you intend to do? And Dennis says, listen,

594
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 2: I need to be Grogu this little uh, this little

595
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: best gar Onesie Bernie little bestcar Bernie chainmail that I

596
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 2: need to give to him because this is central to

597
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 2: the Mandalorian identity and all that. And Ahsoka says, okay,

598
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 2: but what if Grogu, what if Grogus a padawan? What

599
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: if he renounces his Mandalorian citizenship and his now team

600
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 2: Jedi and Din It's almost like a parent driving to

601
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,160
Speaker 2: see a child like at college did like I didn't

602
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 2: come out here. I didn't drive all the way out

603
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 2: here to not see him. I kidding me like uh, like,

604
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna leave the armor at home, like I

605
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: have to give this to him. And Ahsoka's like, okay, listen,

606
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 2: here's what we're gonna do. How about I give him

607
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 2: the armor and didn't before, didn't can like objection, He's

608
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 2: like and here's why, because he's studying right now. He

609
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 2: is studying the Jedi ways, and he loves.

610
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: You very much.

611
00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 2: He misses you a lot, and if he sees you,

612
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 2: it's just gonna derail him. He might flunk like there

613
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 2: was a whole thing today with frogs where he got

614
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 2: distracted by a frog and that, like you know, he

615
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 2: had that derailed the whole lesson plan of you know,

616
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 2: intro to meditation, intro to swamp meditation, one on one.

617
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 1: So let me do it and I'll make sure he

618
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 1: gets it.

619
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 2: And then Dinn is like fine, okay, and he leaves

620
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 2: and Grogu in a just like a heart redding scene

621
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,479
Speaker 2: is like reaching out as Din flies away, can feel

622
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,040
Speaker 2: Din leaving.

623
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:32,440
Speaker 1: I agree with you.

624
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 2: It's it is super frustrating that the Jedi, after everything

625
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 2: that has happened, are still like connection is bad.

626
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: Connection is bad.

627
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 2: With the whole Anakin thing and the way he was

628
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,239
Speaker 2: the chosen one but then turned into the you know,

629
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 2: the like hard right hand of.

630
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: A Sith resurgence.

631
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,880
Speaker 2: That's his fault. That's not our fault for driving him away.

632
00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 2: And not not recognizing and so poorting the emotional attachments

633
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 2: to the that's his fault, that's not our fault.

634
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: It's really annoying. The lack of self reflection.

635
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 3: Like the irony is we all know, like and I

636
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 3: understand there's dramatic irony because we know things they don't know,

637
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 3: but like that never would have happened to Anakin if

638
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 3: his love wasn't like manipulated and used. It was actually fear.

639
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 3: Fear is the problem. And ironically, the thing I think

640
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 3: they're doing really well here is like we know what

641
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 3: happens at Luke's Jedi temple where he's training his Jedi academy.

642
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 3: You know, we know what happens. And the most heartbreaking

643
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 3: thing of all is if Luke had allowed himself to

644
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 3: have that connection to his nephew, if Luke hadn't have

645
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 3: suspected the worst of Kylo, then none of that would

646
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 3: have happened. Because Luke attacked a child because of his

647
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,239
Speaker 3: the way that he had essentially been brainwashed. Like and

648
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 3: I think that there's something that I really love, especially

649
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 3: about you know, the sequel trilogy, and particularly about like

650
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 3: the Last Jedi. I think it reckons with the so

651
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,239
Speaker 3: Michael of the Jedi master relationship and the problems it

652
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 3: can cause, whether it's the prophecy aspect, or whether it's

653
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,919
Speaker 3: forcing people to disconnect in a cult like way from

654
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,879
Speaker 3: anything that they love or care about, which lessens their

655
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:19,319
Speaker 3: empathy and ends up creating these recurring issues again and

656
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 3: again and again and again. And I think it's why

657
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 3: when Ray doesn't take Kylo's hand in that moment, you

658
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 3: get that moment of like, yeah, oh maybe this is

659
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 3: breaking now. Obviously that changes in the later movie, but

660
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 3: like I just I think it's really sad to see

661
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 3: Luke at this stage. It's really really film understanding that.

662
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to be clear, it's frustrating, like as

663
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,279
Speaker 2: a person, but also like I understand it. Listen to

664
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 2: the jedi've been almost wiped out. They're essentially wiped out.

665
00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:50,759
Speaker 2: Luke has been tesked with rebuilding the Jedi Temple and

666
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 2: bringing this culture back. It's kind of not the time.

667
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 2: If you're Louise, you put yourself in Luke's shoes. Now

668
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 2: is not the time to be changing the central tenets

669
00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 2: of the Jedi when they're almost gone. It is the

670
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 2: time to reestablish the centuries the millennia old Jedi traditions,

671
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 2: like we're almost gone. Now is not the time to

672
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 2: cast away all that stuff. So I get it from

673
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 2: Luke's point of view, and also I think you're so right.

674
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 2: This is why I love the Last Jedi. I understand

675
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 2: it's a device, Fatmage. People don't like it.

676
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:24,200
Speaker 1: I love it.

677
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 2: This is why to me, Luke's anger at the Jedi

678
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 2: teachings in that movie feels so earned because he was

679
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: like a true believe He believed in it. He believed

680
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: all the stuff he was taught. He passed it on

681
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,680
Speaker 2: to others, passed on the kind of like central mistake

682
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 2: of forced disconnection, and certainly in the.

683
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: Way the Jedi go about it.

684
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 2: And he's just like super frustrated by that point at

685
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 2: the things that he has been at, the kind of

686
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 2: weakness of that particular part of the teaching, and his

687
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 2: inability at that given time to really reflect on it.

688
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 2: And watching this now, I also understand why he didn't

689
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 2: reflect on it, because he's he's thinking, I've got to

690
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 2: bring this back. I've got to bring this tradition back,

691
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,120
Speaker 2: and you're not going to change one of the central

692
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 2: tenets of that philosophy in that moment.

693
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, animal forced ghost Master Yoda did not show up

694
00:36:23,680 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 3: here and say burn it all down. So again he

695
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 3: did it. It took that took another thirty years, you know,

696
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 3: forty years whatever. So I understand where Luke's at, but

697
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 3: is heartbreaking. Like this stuff with Luke and Gross is

698
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 3: so well done. And by the end of the episode,

699
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 3: I was crying the binary choice, you.

700
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: Know, same same thing.

701
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 2: Okay, So Luke Tutor's Grogu went for jumping, whether we

702
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 2: get a fit? Funny moment where Luke is like, bed

703
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 2: on your knees. It's like, Luke, listen this. The kid's

704
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,359
Speaker 2: legs are four inches long.

705
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: Can we like?

706
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,640
Speaker 6: It's like, can come and ride a bike? You're like,

707
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 6: oh the magic of puppet tree.

708
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 3: Like this puppet is jumping.

709
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 2: You're like, let's get give him, give him a break.

710
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 2: He isn't getting it.

711
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: He's a baby.

712
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 2: So Luke takes Grogu on a forest run and then

713
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 2: perched atop a bamboo tree. He Luke tells Grogu, you

714
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 2: know how to reach out with his feelings and touch

715
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 2: the force and understand how it connects and binds everything,

716
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,120
Speaker 2: and and consider its balance and the way and how

717
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: important that balance is and try and take that balance

718
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 2: into you.

719
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 1: And then Grogu does someone foot.

720
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 2: Balancing on a little branch and he's getting better and

721
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,879
Speaker 2: better at it. Meanwhile, Luke is practicing with his lightsaber,

722
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 2: and then Luke has Grogu's spar with a remote droid,

723
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 2: and in that moment, Grogu unlocks all of a sudden

724
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 2: his jumping skill tree.

725
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,720
Speaker 1: He's got the he's got the Yoda.

726
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 2: Like flips going, and then at the end of it,

727
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,919
Speaker 2: he just reaches out and I crushes the shit out

728
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,760
Speaker 2: of the droid. And then having spent all that force

729
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 2: exertion flipping and running and then crushing, he goes right

730
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:12,839
Speaker 2: to sleep on a rock, just falls dead sleep nap time,

731
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 2: and I just want to pick him up and cuddle him.

732
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: He's so cute.

733
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 2: I Ahsoka then arrives as Grogu is sleeping, and she's like, man,

734
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 2: Greg's really getting good at this. Like, I think we

735
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 2: have a five star recruit here, folks. I think we

736
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 2: have a star recruit and the Jedi Temple. And then

737
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 2: Luke makes that very interesting comment that you noted, which

738
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 2: is it's more like he's remembering in less than I'm

739
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: actually teaching him anything, and I wonder if there isn't

740
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 2: some kind of reincarnation at play, some sort of you know,

741
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 2: shared memories among that race.

742
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: I'm really excited to learn more.

743
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,399
Speaker 2: But that felt like a very I'm glad you pull

744
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 2: it out, because that felt like a very, very weighty comment.

745
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 2: In that moment, Luke could sense that the mandal learning

746
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 2: was there, and Ahsoka gives Luke the little bundle of armor,

747
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,960
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, Luke like it, shockingly

748
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,279
Speaker 2: out of nowhere, questions Grogu's heart.

749
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 3: This guy is just stop questioning a heart.

750
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 2: I wonder if his heart isn't it Let me let

751
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:10,439
Speaker 2: me stop your right there, Luke.

752
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: Okay, how dare you?

753
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:12,000
Speaker 5: How?

754
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 2: How how dare you can question his his height, you

755
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:22,360
Speaker 2: can question his jumping ability, you can question his ability

756
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 2: to run at like at a requisite speed to do combat.

757
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:27,319
Speaker 1: You can push all that.

758
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 2: Do not question the heart, the grit, the determination of Grogu.

759
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: How dare you stop that right now? Don't do it?

760
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 5: Luke?

761
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 3: I think this is actually the so and this is definitely,

762
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 3: as we get to end episode like more confirmed. But

763
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 3: this definitely brings us back to what we were talking

764
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 3: about after last week's episode where it's this this conflict

765
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 3: and potential collaboration between the Jedi and the Mandalorian, way

766
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 3: like could Grogu become this greater person, fire leader, baby Yoda,

767
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 3: grown up Yoda whatever? Like could he come something better

768
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 3: if he can have the Jedi and the Mandalorian teaching

769
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 3: side by side, And will tragedy happen if he isn't

770
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,240
Speaker 3: allowed to do that? You know? And this really feels

771
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,439
Speaker 3: like that. I'm like, Luke, you gotta stop questioning a hawk. Yeah,

772
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,879
Speaker 3: so I understand you've had a suspicious, sad life, right

773
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 3: and bad things have happened, But like he's a baby,

774
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 3: like he'll just training him how to You're trying to

775
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 3: train him to be a child soldier. Like he's really

776
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 3: doing his best, Like give him a break.

777
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 2: Ahsoka then says something that gave me like actual like

778
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 2: full body shows like you're you're reminding me of your

779
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 2: father right now, which was like wow, that is a heavy,

780
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:43,000
Speaker 2: heavy statement laden with a lot of different kinds of meanings.

781
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 2: That was intense, and then Ahsoka says, I'm leaving. Luke

782
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 2: said asks remember going to.

783
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 1: See you again? You know, so few Jedi in the galaxy.

784
00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 1: Are we ever going to see each other again?

785
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,959
Speaker 2: And Ahsoka says perhaps uh Dave Floni hasn't decided yet.

786
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: May the first with you people with you? Bye bye.

787
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 2: I'll just say that first of all, seeing these two

788
00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 2: characters talk to each other and interact.

789
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: You know, if I had one small note about.

790
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,320
Speaker 2: This episode is that, like at times the Luke cg

791
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 2: it was tough at times, specifically like the way the

792
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,400
Speaker 2: like border of the end of the face when it

793
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 2: you know, where it would touch the kind of like

794
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,479
Speaker 2: ambient background, it felt a little bit like, Okay, maybe

795
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 2: that's a little off. I thought, like everything else was good,

796
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 2: but just seeing these two together, having them talk together,

797
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 2: as like, as far as they know, two of the

798
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:48,799
Speaker 2: handful of jedis potentially left in the galaxy, you know,

799
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 2: before Ahsoka goes off and rescues Ezra from somewhere, that

800
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 2: is just incredible to watch, amazing to watch. Back on tattooing,

801
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 2: Dinn pulls into job his palace. Fenix is there. She's

802
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 2: briefing a large gathering that includes the mayor's major domo

803
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:11,720
Speaker 2: in chains. But we're letting him see this intelligence. That's okay,

804
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 2: but you know, I don't know about the wisdom of that,

805
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 2: but that's fine. There the mos Vespas aka the Mods,

806
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,280
Speaker 2: Black Crysantin just hanging out and now Dinn, the mayor

807
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 2: has fled, Fenix says, and we expect the Pikes to

808
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,640
Speaker 2: attack at any moment. Fenix has somewhat of an idea,

809
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,000
Speaker 2: like where the Pikes are, and she says, listen, our

810
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 2: side hat now with Din and now with Black Chrysantin.

811
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 2: We have enough heavy hitters to weather this battle. But

812
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 2: what we need is foot soldiers. We need a bench.

813
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 2: We got our starters, but we don't have the bench.

814
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 2: We need some depth here reading bodies, and Dinn says, aha,

815
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:48,160
Speaker 2: I know somebody.

816
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna fly out to Freetown. So he does.

817
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 2: He flies out to Freetown formerly known as mos Pelgo.

818
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 2: They're calling it Freetown now because they feel like that

819
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,399
Speaker 2: better suits their energy and their vibe.

820
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: And I love that and goes to see Cobb. Cobb

821
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: is like, where's your old baby, buddy, where's he at it?

822
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't want to talk about it right now.

823
00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:09,000
Speaker 1: Can I buy you a drink?

824
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 2: Buys Cobb a drink and says, listen, we got this

825
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 2: thing with the Pikes going on, blasi blasi block. Can

826
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 2: you help out? And Cobb is very standoffish about it,

827
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 2: but he says, listen, here's what I will do. I'm

828
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,400
Speaker 2: not gonna make any promises, but here's.

829
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 1: What I will do.

830
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 2: I will get the town's people together and.

831
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 1: We'll talk about it, okay.

832
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,439
Speaker 2: And Dinn is like, there's money in it, and Cob

833
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,359
Speaker 2: is like, listen, we will talk about it, okay, and

834
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 2: didn argues, I think rather persuasively, like, listen, I understand

835
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 2: that you guys are maybe don't want to get involved,

836
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:46,760
Speaker 2: but mirroring some deleted scenes and conversations from Star Wars,

837
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 2: and you hope where you know. Luke is like, the

838
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:53,040
Speaker 2: Empire's not even here, like who cares? Din argues that

839
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 2: the Pikes are expanding. Okay, you've already seen them at

840
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 2: your neck of the woods. They're going to be here

841
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:03,080
Speaker 2: in force. So maybe they're not not in Freetown now,

842
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,760
Speaker 2: but they will be at some point, and Cob says, okay,

843
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 2: I'll call that meeting. Then, moments after Didn leaves and

844
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 2: Cob watches him fly away, we get another full body

845
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:19,360
Speaker 2: chills moment as a figure walks out of the rippling

846
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 2: heat of the sands. Cobb's greenhorn deputy comes out to

847
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 2: have a look at this guy, and it is cad Bane,

848
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 2: looking as ominous as I think we've ever seen cad

849
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:39,280
Speaker 2: everything about like the face, the eyes, the little pointy

850
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 2: little teeth, just a terrifying vision. And I'm like, oh

851
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:46,520
Speaker 2: my god, we're you about to see the end of

852
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,919
Speaker 2: Cob Vant like right here, right now, like because there's

853
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 2: no way he can take Cad out. And they have

854
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 2: a little discussion. Cad is very clearly working for the Pikes,

855
00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:58,919
Speaker 2: and he has a very very sweet offer for Cob

856
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,000
Speaker 2: Vans and the rest of the town people. And it

857
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 2: is this same exact money that didn't offered you, that

858
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 2: Boba feed offered you. And all you got to do

859
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 2: is do nothing, Just stay out of it, watch the

860
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 2: pod races go home, Like, don't don't get involved in this.

861
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 2: Cob tells Cad basically to go sit on a gaffy stick,

862
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,319
Speaker 2: like all the way down, Sit all the way down

863
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 2: on a gaffy stick, and don't let the you know,

864
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 2: door hit you. Where the well, actually we don't know

865
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,640
Speaker 2: like what cad Bane's butt is like, but where the

866
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 2: good Lord's splitch, it's a human. It's a human, saying Cad,

867
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 2: you may not get it. So then of course we

868
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 2: knew it had to happen. Cad draws down on Cob.

869
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:39,760
Speaker 2: Cob is wounded.

870
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:41,600
Speaker 1: I mean I think I think wounded.

871
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,879
Speaker 2: I think wounded. Right, Yeah, it seemed like a shoulder hit.

872
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 2: The various towns people were like talking, yelling about like

873
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,920
Speaker 2: getting medical supplies and stuff. I think he's gonna be okay.

874
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 2: The deputy is out, and obviously it was kind of fault.

875
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 2: His finger was.

876
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 1: Wiggling over the gun like he'll stand off.

877
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:02,719
Speaker 3: If the debt he hadn't been there, they might have

878
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,600
Speaker 3: just been able to stare each other down and nothing

879
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 3: happened because I didn't like to have an enemy, you know,

880
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 3: a little nemesis. But no, So yeah, I think Cob

881
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:14,879
Speaker 3: vanth and his beautiful hair, he's probably gonna be fine.

882
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 3: He'll probably be in the finale.

883
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,960
Speaker 1: Beautiful here, beautiful, beautiful.

884
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 2: And also we were talking about this in pre pro

885
00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 2: about Timothy Oliphant and how his entire like physical presence

886
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:28,640
Speaker 2: in this show.

887
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: Is just that he leans so well.

888
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 2: He doesn't need to run, he doesn't need to do

889
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 2: any any action stuff. It's just like the way he

890
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 2: leans with one like thumb hooked onto his belt buckle

891
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 2: is just really really so swaggy and fun. Yeah, Caad

892
00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 2: tells the townsfolk listen, Pikes, get their spice. There will

893
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,040
Speaker 2: be no problems. None needs to worry about it. Okay, bye.

894
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 2: We go to Garca Whips Cantina, the sanctuary. Pair of

895
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 2: Pikes come in carrying what looks to be like like

896
00:46:58,440 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 2: a steam cooker or something or.

897
00:47:01,480 --> 00:47:06,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, and rice cooker or something, and Garcia's like, go.

898
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 2: Over there and find out what they want. This is weird,

899
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 2: what's the deal with them? But then they just leave

900
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 2: just as suddenly as they come in and they leave,

901
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 2: which is a hello red flag And then boom. I

902
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 2: have to wonder, does this mean it didn't look.

903
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: Like Max reebo was She should have been in the back.

904
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 6: He's in like every episode, so the fact that he

905
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 6: wasn't there, I'm like, I'm taking it to mean that

906
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 6: he is safe.

907
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 1: So okay, well let's talk about this Max Rewell, Garci

908
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:37,799
Speaker 1: of Whip. What do we think I would believe it?

909
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 3: Are they?

910
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 1: Okay? I think Garca probably made it right.

911
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:43,760
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know, I feel like you don't

912
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 3: cast Jennifer Bales to just blow her up, So I'm

913
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 3: hoping she's okay. I'm also we only saw the outside

914
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 3: of the explosion, you know. I'm also like that droid.

915
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:57,240
Speaker 3: He really should have walked faster with that suspicious packet.

916
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 3: I mean, he could have just thrown them, you know. Yeah,

917
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 3: I'm hoping that the drum bot, who I love. I

918
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 3: hope he can be rebuilt. He's a good guy, be

919
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 3: a Max Reberg Gossa. I think we could definitely, I

920
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 3: think we might see We'll probably see Max in the

921
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 3: finale and some true.

922
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: Trophy McCool Drew McCool, are we.

923
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 3: Things are not looking good for people in that bar.

924
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 2: Like bells for bells for for Drew By McCool, I

925
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:24,360
Speaker 2: could be.

926
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,400
Speaker 1: Could it be? I wait more news.

927
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 3: My favorite thing would just be if in the finale,

928
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 3: would just see.

929
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 6: Them all playing in another bar, and it's just like

930
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 6: music lives, baby, it lives.

931
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter, it's immortal.

932
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 1: Max drew By. We we hope you're we hope you're

933
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:42,919
Speaker 1: doing okay.

934
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 2: We go back to the Luke at the Jedi Temple,

935
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 2: where Luke presents Grogu with a choice. He uh takes

936
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 2: out a lightsaber, says, this is Yoda's lightsaber. He ignites

937
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,439
Speaker 2: it with his cheating too. Like, listen, I think Luke

938
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 2: did a good job of kind of like staying out

939
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,600
Speaker 2: of it, presenting like the choice in a in a

940
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 2: kind of like very measured, very balanced way.

941
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:07,440
Speaker 1: So he takes out the lightsaber.

942
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,959
Speaker 2: Here's the path of the Padawan join the Jedi order,

943
00:49:11,120 --> 00:49:13,879
Speaker 2: and then here is the chain mail where you join

944
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,760
Speaker 2: the Path of the Mandorian and you have to choose,

945
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 2: and then he ignites the lightsaber.

946
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,120
Speaker 1: That to me is cheating, cheating on the scale.

947
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, come on, you can't the chain mail is

948
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:30,479
Speaker 2: just like inherently less sexy and cool. You can't turn

949
00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:31,360
Speaker 2: on the lightsaber.

950
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: That's cheating.

951
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,719
Speaker 3: I think he actually failed in that moment. Yeah, not

952
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 3: just as a mentor, but also because he thought he

953
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,600
Speaker 3: could do the flashy lightsaber thing. But the moment he's like,

954
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 3: but if you have the lightsaber, you can never see

955
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 3: din again. He's like, you can never see him, and

956
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 3: then Yoda's like, m m mmm. Yoda goes to the

957
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 3: to have to make we don't know which one Gourga picks,

958
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 3: but his immediate enticement by the bright green blade of

959
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 3: the saber is, yeah, is immediately lessened when when Luke

960
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 3: presents the true choice, which is between the Jedi or

961
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 3: the Mandalorian, you know. And the funny thing is like

962
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 3: Luke doesn't really seem to understand that. It's like it's

963
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:14,240
Speaker 3: not equally weighted because he is not baby Yoda doesn't

964
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 3: really know about the way of mandalor like he is

965
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 3: not picking a people or a path, he is picking

966
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 3: a person that he loves or the Jedi order.

967
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 2: Now, small question here, because as far as Darth Vader

968
00:50:28,239 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 2: number one, from like a couple of years back Marvel Comics,

969
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 2: Darth Vader number one revealed that all the lightsabers taken

970
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:43,839
Speaker 2: from the Jedi Temple and from Yoda's battle with Palpatine.

971
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: When he dropped it, all that.

972
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 2: Stuff was placed like in a big barrel, and Massameta

973
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 2: even was like holding you can actually see that it

974
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 2: is clearly Yoda's lights here, he's holding it up. He

975
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 2: drops it in this like bucket and then they burn

976
00:50:56,760 --> 00:51:00,560
Speaker 2: all of them as Palpatine and and it can slash

977
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:03,160
Speaker 2: Darth like look on and talk about it. So, as

978
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 2: far as we knew from like Darth va Er number one,

979
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 2: the Lightsaber was destroyed.

980
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 3: So I do I'm gonna tell you tell me talking

981
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 3: about comics, So there is a Marvel Star Wars comics

982
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 3: series called Age of Rebellion, and each one is like

983
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 3: a special about different characters. And in Age of Rebellion

984
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,880
Speaker 3: Star Wars Age of Rebellion Special number one, there is

985
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:28,439
Speaker 3: a story called the Trial of Dagabar where we see

986
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 3: od Or on Dagabar building a new lightsaber. Ah, and

987
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 3: that is it. But you are that is like you

988
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,840
Speaker 3: would have had to read this one very specific special

989
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:39,400
Speaker 3: to know that there was an existence of a new Lightsaber.

990
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 3: And because of the way that Disney and Star Wars

991
00:51:41,560 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 3: works and Luke's for we don't even know if that

992
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:46,680
Speaker 3: is why. But clinically there is a second Joe the

993
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 3: Lightsaber that does exist within the world. So that is

994
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 3: like a good outrageous bit of like comic book Cannon

995
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 3: coming in to save the day.

996
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was wondering, I was like, you know,

997
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 2: it has happened even in the post Legends era, where

998
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 2: certain elements of Cannon have been then overruled by stuff

999
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 2: that happens in the shows or the animated series whatever,

1000
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 2: and I was wondering if they were if there was

1001
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 2: either going to be a larger story about how they

1002
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 2: actually did smuggle like someone went and like that was

1003
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:24,360
Speaker 2: either a fake or not. And they stole Yoda's lightsaber

1004
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,680
Speaker 2: out just as everything was gonna get burned or is

1005
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 2: there a second lightsaber?

1006
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,520
Speaker 1: And that is a great fact word, Rosie, Wow, great pull.

1007
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:31,839
Speaker 1: I love it.

1008
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 3: I kind of love that, like Dagabar is this recurring

1009
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 3: thing this episode because like what I really loved about

1010
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 3: seeing Luke as much as we've critiqued Luke here right

1011
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:42,360
Speaker 3: because we're baby Grogory loved.

1012
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: I think, I think, listen, I critique him, but I also,

1013
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 1: like I.

1014
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:46,640
Speaker 3: You would get it.

1015
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:49,759
Speaker 2: I completely, I completely get it. I get why he's

1016
00:52:49,760 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 2: making these stories.

1017
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 3: And the thing is, like something I thought was really

1018
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 3: lovely was to see how his swamp training ground was

1019
00:52:55,680 --> 00:52:59,320
Speaker 3: kind of the opposite of Dagabar. It's like beautiful, it's lush,

1020
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 3: it's easeful, it's it's everything that he kind of didn't

1021
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 3: have in his funny like speed training, and I I

1022
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:08,279
Speaker 3: really love to see that, but it's still it doesn't

1023
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 3: mean he's forgotten what yoga Yoda taught him like that

1024
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 3: was so foundational to him. But I I thought that

1025
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 3: was really I thought that was really special and something

1026
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 3: else like so this choice, the binary choice, Yeah.

1027
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 1: What what do you think? What do you think what

1028
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:22,400
Speaker 1: choice is gonna make?

1029
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:24,880
Speaker 3: Okay, so I think this, I don't know. I was

1030
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 3: crying at this point.

1031
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,800
Speaker 1: I was like, just what's that.

1032
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 2: I'm like, I think he's what's the downside? What's the

1033
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:37,799
Speaker 2: downside of a Jedi with best car armor? First of all,

1034
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 2: y'all should have been doing this centuries.

1035
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:42,680
Speaker 1: Ago, Like, Okay, there's.

1036
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 2: You're telling me there's an armor out there that can

1037
00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 2: deflect lightsabers.

1038
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:46,359
Speaker 1: You should have been on this. Now.

1039
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 2: The Mandalonians have been very very good about tightly controlling

1040
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,760
Speaker 2: this best car, which they considered central to their religion

1041
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 2: and their ethnicity and their culture, and not letting it

1042
00:53:55,160 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 2: get out beyond their control. But man, jedis you should

1043
00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 2: should have been using this stuff.

1044
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:04,360
Speaker 3: Yeah. And the thing that I think is kind of like,

1045
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,320
Speaker 3: it's it's that same thing again and again, the lesson

1046
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:10,719
Speaker 3: that we're getting here every time. If the Jedi had

1047
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 3: been better at being less isolated, they could have connected

1048
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 3: with this community of people who created these armors that

1049
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 3: could have protected the Jedi, like there's and it's always

1050
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 3: this idea about isolation. My gut says that Grogu will

1051
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 3: pick the Mandalorian armor. That's what I want him to do.

1052
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 3: But my gut also says we will see whether in

1053
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 3: the finale or in the I think probably in the finale,

1054
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 3: but or in a different season, you know, Mandalorian season

1055
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 3: three or whatever. I think we will see him with both,

1056
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 3: because I do feel like he is this connection between

1057
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 3: the Mandalorian and the Jedi that could become something much bigger.

1058
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 2: I one hundred percent agree with you on that. I'm

1059
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 2: watching this and thinking, what a choice, because here you

1060
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 2: have two cultures on the edge of extinction. Not to

1061
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:03,319
Speaker 2: be very careful, not to victim blame because of the

1062
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 2: you know, the the genocide of the Mandalorians and the

1063
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 2: execution of Order sixty six against the Jedi or terrible events,

1064
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:16,759
Speaker 2: that is not their fault. That said, it's also unavoidable

1065
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:21,680
Speaker 2: that their specific ideologies interacted with events and made it

1066
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:26,280
Speaker 2: so they ignored various off ramps that could have been taken.

1067
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 2: You know, certainly the Jedi overlooked numerous red flags like

1068
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,600
Speaker 2: again and again again, Yoda, I'm looking directly at you,

1069
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 2: that could have helped avoid and lessen the impact and

1070
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:44,959
Speaker 2: maybe even defuse Order sixty six. So you've got these

1071
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,760
Speaker 2: two cultures who are just hanging on by their fingernails,

1072
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,880
Speaker 2: and that have these philosophies that are like diametrically opposed

1073
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,840
Speaker 2: isolation and disconnection and the Jedi and like intense connection

1074
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:06,359
Speaker 2: and loyalty and tribal interconnectiveness with the Mandalorians. And I

1075
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:11,280
Speaker 2: think you could argue, certainly, you know, knowing what happens

1076
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 2: it we're kind of like Biff with the Sports Almanac,

1077
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:18,120
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. We know how it ends

1078
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 2: with Luke's Jedi temple, so we have that that that foresight,

1079
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 2: and so we know that that ideology maybe doesn't serve

1080
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 2: the Jedi that while going forward, And similarly we can

1081
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 2: make that assumption with the Mandalorians. So I agree with you.

1082
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:35,600
Speaker 2: I think that there we're going to get to a

1083
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 2: place where Grogu is this this figure who represents the

1084
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 2: melding and the strengthening of Mandalorian and Jedi culture by

1085
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 2: combining the best parts of both, you know, like the defensive,

1086
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:55,040
Speaker 2: tight emotional bonds amongst the you know, the close knit

1087
00:56:55,080 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 2: group that the Mandalorians have, and the understanding of balance

1088
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 2: and the nature of the universe that the Jedi have.

1089
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 2: Combining those things together would be immensely powerful. And I

1090
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 2: think that's where we go eventually. I think that's where

1091
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:11,880
Speaker 2: we go with this.

1092
00:57:12,080 --> 00:57:14,760
Speaker 3: I totally agree. And something that I find really interesting

1093
00:57:14,840 --> 00:57:18,160
Speaker 3: is like, this is just like the cyclical nature of

1094
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 3: storytelling and how things affect each other. But like, you know,

1095
00:57:22,280 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 3: when Star Wars began, George Lucas was so inspired by

1096
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 3: kind of every different kind of storytelling, right, and he

1097
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:34,080
Speaker 3: created this thing. I mean every and it comes back

1098
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 3: to pretty much every hero's journey story comes back to

1099
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 3: the famous Chinese novel Journey to the West, right. And

1100
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 3: in this so something that I've kind of been blown

1101
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,840
Speaker 3: away by is how so much of the sequel trilogy

1102
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 3: and this era of Star Wars has been heavily influenced

1103
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 3: by Avatar and The Last Airbender, which is directly influenced

1104
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 3: by Journey to the West, and that when the Avatar

1105
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 3: is picked, they have to pick an item that is

1106
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 3: like a toy, right, And in this moment, I saw

1107
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 3: it again. You know, Kylo Ren has a big Zuko arc.

1108
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 3: If you've watched Avatalla.

1109
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: Last, he really.

1110
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:12,000
Speaker 3: And like you know, sadly didn't turn out the way

1111
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 3: that I thought it might, but you know, it's like

1112
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 3: I was really interested to see this. The binary choice

1113
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 3: of the Jedi has often has been one that you've

1114
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 3: always had to make. But to see it put in

1115
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,320
Speaker 3: this physical thing for a child of having to pick

1116
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 3: what is essentially like a toy or an interest object,

1117
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 3: is so so influenced by Avatar, and I just I

1118
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:31,680
Speaker 3: find it. Really I love to see the way that

1119
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:34,520
Speaker 3: art influences other art, and then the art that was

1120
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 3: influenced by the art becomes influenced again. And it was

1121
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 3: just such a powerful moment because for Grogu, he is

1122
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 3: a baby, Like, yeah, he's fifty, but we don't really

1123
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 3: know how much of this decision he understands. It's very

1124
00:58:46,360 --> 00:58:49,200
Speaker 3: different from the other choices that a lot of Jedis

1125
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:50,920
Speaker 3: had to make. Like if you were a kid and

1126
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,840
Speaker 3: you were enlisted from slavery, obviously the Jedi is a

1127
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:56,240
Speaker 3: good choice, right, But here is a baby and you're

1128
00:58:56,240 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 3: saying to him, pick this shiny, cool weapon or pick

1129
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 3: this plane armor that represents this person you love. Oh

1130
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,000
Speaker 3: and by the way, if you pick the Shiny Weapon,

1131
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:08,600
Speaker 3: you're also going to become like a hero who can

1132
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 3: create this thing. It's so unfair, you know. I really

1133
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,320
Speaker 3: I was really struggling with that ending. But I think

1134
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 3: it's very powerful and I think it's very true to

1135
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 3: who Luke is at this moment.

1136
00:59:18,520 --> 00:59:21,040
Speaker 2: I agree with you, and I also love those crossover Listen,

1137
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 2: there's a clone Wars episode, the Gathering. In another episode

1138
00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 2: where the younglings of the Jedi Temple, after they get

1139
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 2: their Kyber crystal, go and meet the Lightsaber Maker who's

1140
00:59:31,480 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 2: out in space, and it's very Harry Potter the wand

1141
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:39,640
Speaker 2: chooses the Wizard like, even down to the way the

1142
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 2: Lightsaber Maker talks to them and.

1143
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:44,480
Speaker 1: Goes through them. It's curious curio as it goes through

1144
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 1: all the drawers. I love the way.

1145
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 2: I love when stuff crosses over in that way. I

1146
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:51,680
Speaker 2: gotta say, I do think that I agree with you

1147
00:59:51,720 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 2: in that I think Grogu picks the chain mail. I

1148
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 2: think we've got Chekhov's gro goo bubble on the back

1149
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 2: of did Starfighter that tells us, Listen, something's got to

1150
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 2: go back there.

1151
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 3: Also, who is gonna be to add to We've got

1152
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:11,479
Speaker 3: this this ever building crew of badasses who are gonna

1153
01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 3: fight in the finale, Right, surely you've got to have

1154
01:00:14,360 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 3: a little Force user there, like he's gonna happen. I

1155
01:00:18,360 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 3: was actually gonna say as well, Like so Dave Filoni

1156
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,480
Speaker 3: once again getting to introduce one of his clone War's

1157
01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:27,520
Speaker 3: creations with kad Bane in this episode like he did

1158
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:31,080
Speaker 3: with Ahka Do who do you think? I feel like

1159
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,680
Speaker 3: now we've we've really seen that these shows are so

1160
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 3: concerned with bringing in these characters people love and putting

1161
01:00:38,080 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 3: them into the live action essentially, what is the movie universe?

1162
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:44,800
Speaker 3: Do you think we're gonna get any more in the finale?

1163
01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 3: And like who do you think it would be?

1164
01:00:46,640 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 1: Oh?

1165
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 2: Wow, I don't think that we will get any in

1166
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 2: the finale unless, like clearly, when Ahsoka leaves, it's gonna

1167
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:59,360
Speaker 2: be We're going to find Ezra, right, which leads me

1168
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:01,680
Speaker 2: to believe that there's got to be some sort of

1169
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:05,919
Speaker 2: launch pad to that. I don't know if it would

1170
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 2: be Ezra or Hera, but it feels like the next

1171
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 2: thing that happens will be something that leads us in

1172
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 2: that rebels direction and then launches us into the Ahsoka show.

1173
01:01:20,520 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 1: What do you think?

1174
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:23,320
Speaker 3: I think the only person that I think that we

1175
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 3: might get who we love, which would be a different

1176
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:27,440
Speaker 3: angle because it would be from the comics. I do

1177
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 3: feel like with Black Chrysanthin being the guy, I feel

1178
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 3: like potentially we could get a name drop or introduction

1179
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:40,440
Speaker 3: of doctor Afra as the unexpected, maybe even just at

1180
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:42,520
Speaker 3: the end, like after the battle Black Chrisanta and is

1181
01:01:42,560 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 3: just like I've got a job or something, you know, like.

1182
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:46,720
Speaker 1: That is a great call.

1183
01:01:46,800 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 2: I would actually bet, like my entire bank account, that

1184
01:01:50,160 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 2: within like not too long in the future, we will

1185
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:58,160
Speaker 2: have some sort of Doctor Afra mentioned, a name drop,

1186
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:02,919
Speaker 2: a symbol mention of of oh I know someone who

1187
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:03,720
Speaker 2: does work.

1188
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:06,760
Speaker 1: Like that too. Yeah, maybe like Evil Traffic's and Antiquity

1189
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,720
Speaker 1: and Evil Droid or something else something like.

1190
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 2: I feel like that is almost one hundred percent that

1191
01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 2: will happen. Yeah, that will be so cool because Afra is.

1192
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 3: I think as well. It's not that these choices are

1193
01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:23,320
Speaker 3: defined by the fandom in any way, but I do

1194
01:02:23,360 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 3: think that something that adds to the likeliness of that

1195
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 3: is how much people love Black Chrysantin, like he was

1196
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 3: like a breakout. You're getting fan cans for Black Veysantin.

1197
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,880
Speaker 3: You're getting fanfic, you're getting fan art, you're getting like

1198
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:39,080
Speaker 3: beautiful videos, people are writing articles about him. They love him.

1199
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 3: So I think the fact that he is so popular

1200
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 3: that just adds more fuel to the Doctor afrofire because

1201
01:02:44,360 --> 01:02:46,160
Speaker 3: people want to see more of him, So why not

1202
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 3: introduce Afford to.

1203
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:48,800
Speaker 1: Oh we got to talk about this?

1204
01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:51,560
Speaker 2: Okay, So do you care at all that, like, this

1205
01:02:51,680 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 2: show is book of bobov Head, but the last two

1206
01:02:53,680 --> 01:02:58,040
Speaker 2: episodes have it's like completely and completely sidelined him essentially

1207
01:02:58,240 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 2: the character, And do you care? So I've seen a

1208
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:03,640
Speaker 2: lot of snarky comments about it. I am of the

1209
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:05,880
Speaker 2: opinion that, like, I don't care what you call it.

1210
01:03:06,040 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 2: Show me a good story, and I don't care what.

1211
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:10,440
Speaker 2: I don't care what you call it. I don't care

1212
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 2: who's in it, Like if it's if it's an engaging

1213
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 2: story with characters that I care about and a great

1214
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:18,000
Speaker 2: plot and with emotional beats that I'm in, and I

1215
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 2: don't really mind that the main character is not in it.

1216
01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:21,919
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1217
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:25,200
Speaker 3: I have very specific thoughts about this because, like, to me,

1218
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:30,640
Speaker 3: I can understand why, Yeah, some people didn't like love

1219
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:34,160
Speaker 3: the first few episodes. It's very simple. Boba Fette has

1220
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 3: for many years been one of the most enigmatic, mysterious

1221
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:41,840
Speaker 3: and if you don't read the Legends books, unexplored characters,

1222
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:44,640
Speaker 3: so he is essentially the ultimate Avatar character. You can

1223
01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:47,680
Speaker 3: imagine him in any way. He's so cool, he's so hardcore.

1224
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:51,200
Speaker 3: So you know what, a lot of people they were

1225
01:03:51,240 --> 01:03:55,240
Speaker 3: never gonna like seeing whoever Boba Fett was. I personally,

1226
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:58,480
Speaker 3: I personally love Creature Up. I think Rodriguez and Favre

1227
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:00,840
Speaker 3: are really fun team. So for me, like this is great.

1228
01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 3: I love the mod squad like that. Stuff's really fun

1229
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:05,280
Speaker 3: to me. But you know what, I think that this

1230
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:10,360
Speaker 3: is actually a really really brilliant way of veering back

1231
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 3: to what people liked about Boba. Like you got to

1232
01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 3: have that little exploration and a lot of people didn't

1233
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:17,600
Speaker 3: necessarily love it, and those who did got to enjoy it.

1234
01:04:17,880 --> 01:04:20,480
Speaker 3: But now we're back to the Boba that people actually like,

1235
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 3: the dark head nod of like yes, power not really

1236
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 3: seeing him. He's more of like a myth than anything else.

1237
01:04:27,680 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 3: And I think, honestly, it's very honest to what the

1238
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 3: show was always going to because I'm pretty sure from

1239
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 3: the outset. They were like, this is an extension of

1240
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:36,200
Speaker 3: the Mandalorian with more Boba Fet, and that, to me

1241
01:04:36,360 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 3: is exactly what they're doing. So it will be interesting

1242
01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 3: to see. This is my prediction for the finale is

1243
01:04:41,480 --> 01:04:43,480
Speaker 3: we'll get to see him do some like badass sharp

1244
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:46,120
Speaker 3: shooting that people have kind of always wanted him to see,

1245
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:47,880
Speaker 3: and he'll have the helmet on and he gets to

1246
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 3: be a little bit more of that mythical Boba Fette again,

1247
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 3: because I think that's what people really want. But for me,

1248
01:04:52,560 --> 01:04:56,800
Speaker 3: I just think that it's a really cool, unexpected way,

1249
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:59,920
Speaker 3: and I think ironically they're actually very smartly. They kind

1250
01:05:00,120 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 3: and knew the complaints they would get, so they're veering

1251
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:06,120
Speaker 3: back to less is more Boba, which I think a

1252
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:08,320
Speaker 3: lot of fans is what they like about him.

1253
01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't have a particular problem with it.

1254
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 2: I think that if this show acts along with the

1255
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 2: Mandalorian as kind of like an exploration of the Mandalorian diaspora,

1256
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:25,120
Speaker 2: like in this really interesting way, then that is really cool. Now, yes,

1257
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 2: I understand that Boba Fet is not exactly a member

1258
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:29,600
Speaker 2: of the tribe so to speak, but still he's got

1259
01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 2: on like let's say it's still he's connected in that album.

1260
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:36,520
Speaker 3: He was the most famous Mandalorian. Oh you know what

1261
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 3: else I'll just say quickly, just to give it. It's

1262
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:41,320
Speaker 3: just in kind of looking towards that finale talking about

1263
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:44,000
Speaker 3: Boba and Fennick. Something that we kind of didn't touch

1264
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 3: on is Cadbane, the new character who has introduced this

1265
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:52,280
Speaker 3: episode Scary blue face, sharp teeth, orange eyes. He has

1266
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 3: fought both Boba and Fennick in the animated stuff. So

1267
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:58,640
Speaker 3: there's history there. So we are gonna whatever happens next,

1268
01:05:58,680 --> 01:06:00,800
Speaker 3: there is history there, and we're going to get see

1269
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 3: those two do some kind of team up against him.

1270
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:04,360
Speaker 3: Would be my guest.

1271
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 1: Wow, that's gonna be That's really exciting.

1272
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 2: Okay, super fun conversation. Up next, let's go to the Omnibus.

1273
01:06:25,800 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 2: Welcome to another chapter in the Omnibus where lower analysis

1274
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 2: and understanding come together. This week, let's talk about the apocalypse.

1275
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:36,800
Speaker 2: Let's talk about the post apocalypse, and let's talk about

1276
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:42,160
Speaker 2: Station eleven's place in that post apocalyptic canon. First, let's

1277
01:06:42,200 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 2: consider the word itself, apocalypse. It's a doom laden word

1278
01:06:46,720 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 2: in the year twenty twenty two, certainly conjuring ruin and

1279
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:54,760
Speaker 2: destruction on an immense scale, a great disaster. Miriam Webster's

1280
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 2: Dictionary tells us, a sudden and very bad event. The

1281
01:06:57,440 --> 01:06:59,600
Speaker 2: word comes to us from the Greek verb meaning to

1282
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 2: unc to reveal. It first appeared in English as the

1283
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 2: translation of the opening of the Book of Revelation, and

1284
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 2: oftentimes if you look at old versions of the Bible

1285
01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:14,680
Speaker 2: from the nineteenth century and stuff, the Book of Revelation

1286
01:07:14,720 --> 01:07:18,040
Speaker 2: will be called the Book of apocalypse. The words modern

1287
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 2: connotation of man made destruction, you know, nuclear war, biological terrorism,

1288
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:29,520
Speaker 2: the fall of civilization under the unblinking gaze of mass media, consumerism, zombies, etc.

1289
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 2: First began to emerge in the nineteen sixties as the

1290
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 2: confidence of America's white male ruling class was shaken by

1291
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:41,000
Speaker 2: the various upheavals of the era civil rights, the anti

1292
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:45,800
Speaker 2: war movement, the feminist movement, etc. And the constant specter

1293
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:50,720
Speaker 2: of a World War three nuclear exchange with the Soviet Union,

1294
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:54,200
Speaker 2: and of course, the end the apocalypse, some kind of

1295
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:58,960
Speaker 2: end of civilization, end of an era has been a

1296
01:07:58,960 --> 01:08:03,160
Speaker 2: topic of deep facts to us for a long time.

1297
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 2: It has spawned countless stories, television shows, movies, mainly in

1298
01:08:06,680 --> 01:08:10,240
Speaker 2: the science fiction genre, and that includes Station eleven. In

1299
01:08:10,280 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 2: our twenty first century reality, the apocalypse feels very present,

1300
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 2: like an unwonted guest whose arrival we have long dreaded

1301
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 2: but have also kind of expected.

1302
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:24,000
Speaker 1: We live in a world that.

1303
01:08:24,040 --> 01:08:28,360
Speaker 2: Feels changed by climate change, by COVID, by many other things.

1304
01:08:29,120 --> 01:08:30,840
Speaker 2: In a sense, we could call this world that we

1305
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:34,640
Speaker 2: live in the real world is kind of twist on

1306
01:08:34,720 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 2: this idea of new normal, which is this language of

1307
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:40,519
Speaker 2: just get used to what this is. Maybe a more

1308
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,120
Speaker 2: accurate way to talk about the era we actually live

1309
01:08:43,160 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 2: in is post normal.

1310
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:45,479
Speaker 1: Station eleven.

1311
01:08:45,520 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 2: The book and the show are best described as post apocalyptic,

1312
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:52,479
Speaker 2: meaning a genre which derives its emotional punch and its

1313
01:08:52,520 --> 01:08:56,720
Speaker 2: ideological conviction by deciding, essentially who gets to survive and

1314
01:08:56,760 --> 01:09:00,959
Speaker 2: go on after the apocalypse. In Nuclear Holocaust as Urban renewal,

1315
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 2: the late science fiction writer, editor, and critic Martha Barter writes, quote,

1316
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,360
Speaker 2: these fictions usually found ways to explain the survival of

1317
01:09:08,400 --> 01:09:09,240
Speaker 2: a select group.

1318
01:09:09,360 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 1: This group, purified by a return to.

1319
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 2: Primitive condition, might eventually be able to build a new

1320
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:19,720
Speaker 2: and infinitely better world. In Stephen King's The Stand, the

1321
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:24,519
Speaker 2: left Behind survivors are champions in the eternal struggle between

1322
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:25,200
Speaker 2: good and evil.

1323
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:26,720
Speaker 1: The survivors of the Walking.

1324
01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 2: Dead are those most able to deal in violence, while

1325
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:32,599
Speaker 2: the heroes of the Walking Dead are those most able

1326
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:35,880
Speaker 2: to deal in violence without losing their morality. In the end,

1327
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:38,559
Speaker 2: the zombie apocalypse turns out to be just to kind

1328
01:09:38,560 --> 01:09:42,640
Speaker 2: of stumble in the ongoing march of the modern capitalist world.

1329
01:09:42,800 --> 01:09:43,280
Speaker 1: In HG.

1330
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 2: Wells's nineteen thirty three novel The Shape of Things to Come,

1331
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:51,240
Speaker 2: an economic depression, clearly an allusion to the ongoing Great

1332
01:09:51,240 --> 01:09:54,439
Speaker 2: Depression of that time, followed by a Titanic World War,

1333
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:59,400
Speaker 2: sets the stage for English speaking scientists and technocrats to

1334
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 2: foist a nevilent dictatorship on the globe by erasing national

1335
01:10:02,439 --> 01:10:05,519
Speaker 2: and religious divisions and enforcing the English language as the

1336
01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:09,120
Speaker 2: lingua franca of the new global utopia. This is a

1337
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 2: great one by HG. Wells, who essentially says, yes, fascism

1338
01:10:12,439 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 2: is rising, Yes there are of protests in the streets.

1339
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:19,080
Speaker 1: Yes, the global.

1340
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:24,320
Speaker 2: Great Depression has drastically altered the lives of millions of

1341
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:26,839
Speaker 2: people for the worse across the globe.

1342
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:30,040
Speaker 1: But the solution to this is just let the English

1343
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 1: colonize Earth.

1344
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 2: And you know, in the time looped reality of the

1345
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:42,599
Speaker 2: Terminators series, the fate of the entire human race hinges

1346
01:10:42,680 --> 01:10:45,920
Speaker 2: on one woman carrying her pregnancy to term so that

1347
01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:48,400
Speaker 2: her child can grow up to be a soldier. This

1348
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:52,439
Speaker 2: genre is often a response to events. This is kind

1349
01:10:52,479 --> 01:10:54,599
Speaker 2: of an aside, but it's something I'm going to hopefully

1350
01:10:54,600 --> 01:10:57,720
Speaker 2: have time to dive into deeper. But two events that

1351
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 2: really shape the development of the post apocalyptic apocalyptic genre

1352
01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 2: and sci fi in general are the American Civil War

1353
01:11:06,479 --> 01:11:10,960
Speaker 2: and Japan's defeat of Russia in the Russo Japanese War.

1354
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:14,120
Speaker 2: Early in the twentieth century. The American Civil War was

1355
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:19,200
Speaker 2: watched with fear over in Europe because of the development

1356
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 2: of various kinds of modern weaponry, including you know, steel

1357
01:11:24,479 --> 01:11:30,080
Speaker 2: hulled ships, including machine guns, etc. And it created this

1358
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:36,679
Speaker 2: entire genre of sci fi that was concerned with mainly

1359
01:11:37,080 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 2: Europe retaining its technological edge so that it would not

1360
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:47,000
Speaker 2: fall to you know, like the forces of honestly, mainly

1361
01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:55,360
Speaker 2: like Asiatic conquerors from China or rapacious and growing strong

1362
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:58,400
Speaker 2: United States of America, and then the Russo Japanese were

1363
01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 2: just like pushed up the the racism to a whole

1364
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:03,920
Speaker 2: other level. This was for the first time an era

1365
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 2: when Asian and non white army had defeated a modern

1366
01:12:08,400 --> 01:12:11,759
Speaker 2: European army in the field, and this created an entire

1367
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:18,960
Speaker 2: angstridden era of extremely racist sci fi stuff, like The

1368
01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 2: Vanishing Fleets by Roy Norton, which told the story of

1369
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 2: like an Asian invasion that was kind of spearheaded by

1370
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:34,639
Speaker 2: Asian migrant workers in the US and Japan, inciting China

1371
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:38,240
Speaker 2: to rise against Europe. YadA, YadA, yadas. Many stories like

1372
01:12:38,280 --> 01:12:42,360
Speaker 2: this back to our omnibus. Peter Heller's The Dog Stars

1373
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:47,200
Speaker 2: reduces America to it's kind of like idealized molecular structure

1374
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:49,639
Speaker 2: of a good man, a good woman, and a good

1375
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 2: dog and many many good guns. In Cormac McCarthy's Barren,

1376
01:12:53,960 --> 01:12:57,280
Speaker 2: brilliant and basically womanless the Road, a father's love for

1377
01:12:57,320 --> 01:12:59,960
Speaker 2: a son is literally the only thing in the entire

1378
01:13:01,000 --> 01:13:06,080
Speaker 2: ash filled world that is worth saving at all, and

1379
01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:07,479
Speaker 2: that brings us to Station eleven.

1380
01:13:07,640 --> 01:13:10,120
Speaker 1: How does Station eleven deal with? Who survives and how

1381
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:10,639
Speaker 1: and why?

1382
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:15,559
Speaker 2: In Station eleven, evading the Georgia Flu depends mainly on luck,

1383
01:13:16,080 --> 01:13:20,240
Speaker 2: which gives us an entire cross section of characters surviving

1384
01:13:20,360 --> 01:13:24,080
Speaker 2: the post flu chaos might depend on a moment or

1385
01:13:24,120 --> 01:13:29,000
Speaker 2: even several instances of sudden and terrifying violence, maybe more

1386
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 2: if you, like Kirsten, spent the years in the End

1387
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:35,639
Speaker 2: Times like studying the Blade. But of course, the core

1388
01:13:35,760 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 2: message of the story is, as the Traveling Symphony tells us,

1389
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:44,080
Speaker 2: survival is insufficient. Station eleven is about finding meaning in life.

1390
01:13:44,160 --> 01:13:49,200
Speaker 2: It's about living, and that idea is why we respond

1391
01:13:49,240 --> 01:13:51,759
Speaker 2: to this story as one that is hopeful to live.

1392
01:13:52,280 --> 01:13:57,799
Speaker 2: Station eleven argues, doesn't mean the acquisition of you know whatever,

1393
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:02,519
Speaker 2: the post apocalyptic after Times version of capital of money

1394
01:14:02,640 --> 01:14:07,200
Speaker 2: is right, jeven goes from place to place bringing comfort

1395
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 2: and medical care to people. There is seemingly no exchange

1396
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:14,599
Speaker 2: of whatever money would be at that time. Everyone who

1397
01:14:14,640 --> 01:14:20,880
Speaker 2: lives at the Museum of Civilization partakes in their resources,

1398
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:24,600
Speaker 2: the food, the electricity, without as far as we know,

1399
01:14:25,720 --> 01:14:29,559
Speaker 2: having to exchange anything for it other than being a

1400
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:35,120
Speaker 2: good citizen. And I think, really, notably amongst other stories

1401
01:14:35,160 --> 01:14:41,559
Speaker 2: of this genre, success, survival and then living don't entail

1402
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:45,320
Speaker 2: any kind of like great amount of combat skills. Yes,

1403
01:14:45,479 --> 01:14:50,160
Speaker 2: Kirsten solos like half a dozen attackers in the woods, right,

1404
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:53,799
Speaker 2: and she can shave a flies ass at ten yards

1405
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:58,759
Speaker 2: with a thrown knife, But there are many other examples

1406
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:02,320
Speaker 2: of characters in Station eleven who are not robust in

1407
01:15:02,400 --> 01:15:05,760
Speaker 2: the dealing of physical violence. I think Station eleven is

1408
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:09,880
Speaker 2: rare amongst the post apocalyptic genre for featuring multiple characters.

1409
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:11,760
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure like that I could take that I

1410
01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:14,120
Speaker 2: could fight, like, assuming I made it through the flu

1411
01:15:14,240 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 2: Think of any kind of post apocalyptic story that you

1412
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:20,600
Speaker 2: want to, think of the Walking Dead, de Terminer, or

1413
01:15:20,600 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 2: any of the stories we mentioned before, assuming you survived

1414
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:27,320
Speaker 2: the fallout, Like, do I think I could take Rick,

1415
01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 2: that I could take on any of the survivors that

1416
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:32,960
Speaker 2: I'm as No, I don't think that I'd be able

1417
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:38,040
Speaker 2: to do that or survive. Station eleven makes survival and

1418
01:15:38,120 --> 01:15:42,519
Speaker 2: living and finding meaning in life feel like something anybody

1419
01:15:42,520 --> 01:15:42,880
Speaker 2: could do.

1420
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:45,920
Speaker 1: That it's accessible. Hows it do this? It does it.

1421
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:49,439
Speaker 2: By saying all that you really need to do that is.

1422
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:52,559
Speaker 2: It's not an ability to beat up lots of people,

1423
01:15:52,920 --> 01:15:55,760
Speaker 2: or to be great with like guns, or have this

1424
01:15:55,880 --> 01:16:03,320
Speaker 2: capacity for like planning raids and building defensive fortifications, any

1425
01:16:03,400 --> 01:16:07,440
Speaker 2: of these things. It just requires fundamentally openness, a willingness

1426
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:11,360
Speaker 2: to share life in the aftertimes in Station eleven is

1427
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:14,160
Speaker 2: a collaboration, just like it is in real life, and

1428
01:16:14,240 --> 01:16:16,920
Speaker 2: it's depending on our capacity to hear each other. Station

1429
01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:21,160
Speaker 2: eleven tells us that that is what living is. It's

1430
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:23,280
Speaker 2: sharing your life with other people and allowing them to

1431
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:27,160
Speaker 2: share their lives with you, and that's what resonates as Hope.

1432
01:16:27,479 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 2: I think the thing that really has affected me most

1433
01:16:30,320 --> 01:16:34,559
Speaker 2: about watching Station eleven is this idea that we want

1434
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 2: to share our lives with people. We want to talk

1435
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:38,240
Speaker 2: to other people. We want to tell the people closest

1436
01:16:38,280 --> 01:16:41,680
Speaker 2: to us how we really feel. But it's like so

1437
01:16:41,800 --> 01:16:45,679
Speaker 2: hard to do. It's incredibly hard to do. We make

1438
01:16:45,720 --> 01:16:48,160
Speaker 2: excuses to not do it, we're bad at doing it

1439
01:16:48,200 --> 01:16:50,800
Speaker 2: when we try to do it, and so we use

1440
01:16:51,200 --> 01:16:55,679
Speaker 2: tribe called quest lyrics, or Hamlet's Dialogue with his Mother

1441
01:16:56,520 --> 01:17:01,120
Speaker 2: or a comic book to explain to the people close

1442
01:17:01,160 --> 01:17:03,519
Speaker 2: to us, this is how I'm feeling. This captures it

1443
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:06,280
Speaker 2: in a way that I couldn't and all we need

1444
01:17:06,400 --> 01:17:09,200
Speaker 2: to accomplish that in this world, in the post normal world,

1445
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:12,040
Speaker 2: is just some openness. That's what's great about Station eleven.

1446
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:23,400
Speaker 2: Up next, our conversation with Station eleven show runner Patrick Somerville.

1447
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:30,040
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Hive Mind, where we explore a topic

1448
01:17:30,080 --> 01:17:33,280
Speaker 2: in depth with an expert guest joining us today, we

1449
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:37,719
Speaker 2: have the great honor of being joined by Patrick Somerville, creator,

1450
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:40,400
Speaker 2: showrunner a of HBO Max's Station eleven.

1451
01:17:40,760 --> 01:17:43,400
Speaker 1: Patrick, thank you so much for joining us. I really

1452
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:44,320
Speaker 1: love your show.

1453
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 5: Thanks for having me, Thanks for introducing this interview dot Way.

1454
01:17:49,439 --> 01:17:50,880
Speaker 1: I absolutely love your show.

1455
01:17:51,080 --> 01:17:53,639
Speaker 2: The audience members who've reached out after we talked about

1456
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:56,400
Speaker 2: the show on the pod have also been quite moved

1457
01:17:56,400 --> 01:17:57,920
Speaker 2: by a bunch of them. We're like, I'm going to

1458
01:17:57,960 --> 01:17:59,759
Speaker 2: buy the book down and read the book, which is great.

1459
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:02,559
Speaker 2: I just want to ask you about things that I love.

1460
01:18:02,479 --> 01:18:03,120
Speaker 1: About your show.

1461
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:03,920
Speaker 5: Let's do it.

1462
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:05,360
Speaker 1: The number one thing that.

1463
01:18:05,400 --> 01:18:07,400
Speaker 2: Really resonated with me when I both when I read

1464
01:18:07,439 --> 01:18:09,400
Speaker 2: the book and then when I watched the show is

1465
01:18:09,520 --> 01:18:12,280
Speaker 2: how you know, as human beings, we're trapped in our

1466
01:18:12,360 --> 01:18:16,400
Speaker 2: own experiences and we crave communicating and we want to

1467
01:18:16,439 --> 01:18:18,240
Speaker 2: know what it's like to be someone else. We want

1468
01:18:18,240 --> 01:18:19,760
Speaker 2: to express what it's like to be so us, but

1469
01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:21,360
Speaker 2: we're so bad at doing it. I think your show

1470
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:25,080
Speaker 2: captured that so well, Like we're so bad at talking

1471
01:18:25,200 --> 01:18:27,639
Speaker 2: to the people that are closest to us all the time,

1472
01:18:27,640 --> 01:18:32,439
Speaker 2: so we use things like songs, like movies, like graphic novels,

1473
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:36,400
Speaker 2: like like Shakespeare. Is that something you talked about you

1474
01:18:36,560 --> 01:18:39,800
Speaker 2: the crew, the cast on set, like those kind of experiences.

1475
01:18:40,120 --> 01:18:43,679
Speaker 5: Definitely, and in different ways depending on where we were

1476
01:18:44,240 --> 01:18:46,840
Speaker 5: in the timeline, you know, Like you got to remember

1477
01:18:46,880 --> 01:18:49,599
Speaker 5: we were we were a year and a half before

1478
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:51,759
Speaker 5: we had heard of COVID when we were first talking,

1479
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:53,720
Speaker 5: and then we were in it, and I feel like

1480
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:55,519
Speaker 5: our language change. I'll do you one better though, on

1481
01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:58,559
Speaker 5: what you said, I'm not even good at being me. Yeah,

1482
01:18:58,920 --> 01:19:02,559
Speaker 5: you know, like like that the first performance is like

1483
01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:09,400
Speaker 5: it is not straightforward how to how to properly perform yourself. Yeah,

1484
01:19:09,920 --> 01:19:12,640
Speaker 5: it's not even straightforward what the role is for a

1485
01:19:12,680 --> 01:19:15,320
Speaker 5: long time, and I think, like I think I came.

1486
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:17,200
Speaker 5: I don't know why when I read the book I

1487
01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:20,320
Speaker 5: connected to it so much. It wasn't because it was

1488
01:19:20,360 --> 01:19:23,439
Speaker 5: post apocalyptic, that's for sure, and it wasn't because of

1489
01:19:23,479 --> 01:19:27,400
Speaker 5: the Shakespeare. It was something there's something about even the

1490
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 5: Arthur celebrity side. And I read it before I was

1491
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:35,439
Speaker 5: even kind of in Hollywood at all, that he had.

1492
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:38,760
Speaker 5: He's a character who has trouble being him himself, and

1493
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:41,759
Speaker 5: he's like, you know, he's struggling. I kind of related

1494
01:19:41,800 --> 01:19:45,200
Speaker 5: to the way that he flails in the novel. Might

1495
01:19:45,200 --> 01:19:49,280
Speaker 5: have been a first personal like I just kind of related,

1496
01:19:49,640 --> 01:19:51,800
Speaker 5: even though not by kind of what was happening in

1497
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:53,439
Speaker 5: his life, but just like the struggle of just sort

1498
01:19:53,439 --> 01:19:56,519
Speaker 5: of how to not be the fraudulent you, how to

1499
01:19:56,560 --> 01:19:59,360
Speaker 5: not do that thing where you like, you find yourself

1500
01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:05,040
Speaker 5: slightly of your your center and you're like performing for

1501
01:20:05,160 --> 01:20:07,360
Speaker 5: a person and you don't It feels kind of bad,

1502
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:11,479
Speaker 5: but you're doing it like that thing. So it's funny.

1503
01:20:11,520 --> 01:20:13,639
Speaker 5: No one's ever asked me about this, so I never

1504
01:20:13,720 --> 01:20:16,280
Speaker 5: even once expressed that thing along the way, but when

1505
01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:19,000
Speaker 5: we would talk about it for the show, I think

1506
01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:24,720
Speaker 5: performance is baked into all the layers. But what I

1507
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:27,200
Speaker 5: got so excited about when I was pitching it to

1508
01:20:27,200 --> 01:20:29,760
Speaker 5: to networks and stuff would be like, imagine, this is

1509
01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:33,280
Speaker 5: really when I started thinking the stranger situation. And when

1510
01:20:33,280 --> 01:20:36,840
Speaker 5: you're coming up out of it, everyone's alone, and so

1511
01:20:37,680 --> 01:20:41,719
Speaker 5: everyone's starting from the same spot of not knowing anyone.

1512
01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:45,000
Speaker 5: So and that means everyone's going to have the first

1513
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:50,240
Speaker 5: time they run into a new person and say who

1514
01:20:50,280 --> 01:20:54,439
Speaker 5: are you? But also here's who I am, you know,

1515
01:20:54,479 --> 01:20:57,080
Speaker 5: and you can say anything right then in that moment

1516
01:20:57,280 --> 01:20:59,800
Speaker 5: in our in our show's space, and that's like, that's

1517
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:02,880
Speaker 5: a place that the book didn't really mind that much too.

1518
01:21:02,920 --> 01:21:05,200
Speaker 5: But I just when we as a room started imagining,

1519
01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:08,760
Speaker 5: like this, what it means to be a stranger and

1520
01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:12,880
Speaker 5: the opportunity that's built into introducing yourself to someone. But

1521
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:16,439
Speaker 5: then like the nightmare I don't know about you, Like

1522
01:21:16,640 --> 01:21:18,880
Speaker 5: meeting a new person is terrifying because like now I

1523
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:21,240
Speaker 5: have to tell this fucking story again about who I am.

1524
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:22,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that, you know.

1525
01:21:22,280 --> 01:21:26,360
Speaker 2: Part of the power of your story and the book

1526
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:31,479
Speaker 2: as well, is these kind of existential dichotomies. We want

1527
01:21:31,520 --> 01:21:33,720
Speaker 2: to share ourselves, we want to talk to people, we're

1528
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:36,360
Speaker 2: bad at doing it, we're scared of doing it. We

1529
01:21:36,400 --> 01:21:39,280
Speaker 2: want to be open and meet new people, but in

1530
01:21:39,320 --> 01:21:42,679
Speaker 2: this world that you have placed them in, it's dangerous

1531
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:47,000
Speaker 2: to do that. So balancing those things feels so fraught,

1532
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:49,479
Speaker 2: and you navigate it so beautifully, And I think, what,

1533
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:52,360
Speaker 2: you know, the thing that I really respond to is

1534
01:21:52,400 --> 01:21:55,320
Speaker 2: that that dance, because I think it's a it's a

1535
01:21:55,360 --> 01:21:58,600
Speaker 2: thing that we're not we're living through a version of this,

1536
01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:03,040
Speaker 2: I think. But it's that struggle that I think people

1537
01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 2: deal with every day. We're disconnected from each other, but

1538
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:08,240
Speaker 2: we're also so unbelievably connected.

1539
01:22:08,960 --> 01:22:11,680
Speaker 1: How do how do we respond to that reality?

1540
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:13,160
Speaker 5: Or how do we make good on this?

1541
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:13,759
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1542
01:22:14,400 --> 01:22:16,680
Speaker 5: Like how do we use it to maximize it? But

1543
01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:21,679
Speaker 5: everything you just said, too, Jason, is like already the case, right,

1544
01:22:21,760 --> 01:22:24,520
Speaker 5: you know, like it doesn't need to post apocalyptic context

1545
01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:27,320
Speaker 5: to make everything you said about like how do we

1546
01:22:27,720 --> 01:22:29,920
Speaker 5: how do we introduce ourselves to someone? And like how

1547
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:33,479
Speaker 5: do we connect? That's to me maybe why the book

1548
01:22:33,479 --> 01:22:36,040
Speaker 5: seems so cool. Was like, yes, there's this big bright

1549
01:22:36,120 --> 01:22:38,000
Speaker 5: line between the before and the after, but it doesn't

1550
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:40,360
Speaker 5: actually matter if you're in the before the after, Right,

1551
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:45,559
Speaker 5: the steaks are the steaks, the everyday steaks are the

1552
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:49,600
Speaker 5: end of the world, depending on what the social interaction is. Like,

1553
01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:53,200
Speaker 5: I think everybody listening right now has had a small

1554
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:57,240
Speaker 5: talkie medium kind of interaction with a person they kind

1555
01:22:57,280 --> 01:23:01,680
Speaker 5: of know that ruins the two weeks of their lives. Yes,

1556
01:23:02,640 --> 01:23:06,000
Speaker 5: like someone who should not have had the power, Yeah,

1557
01:23:06,479 --> 01:23:10,200
Speaker 5: ended you, And those are very mysterious moments. I think

1558
01:23:10,240 --> 01:23:12,320
Speaker 5: that I don't know. I don't even know what to

1559
01:23:12,320 --> 01:23:13,920
Speaker 5: do with them. I don't understand them, but I try

1560
01:23:13,960 --> 01:23:15,280
Speaker 5: to notice them when they happen.

1561
01:23:15,479 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 2: Another thing I love about your show and getting back

1562
01:23:18,400 --> 01:23:22,120
Speaker 2: to the kind of predicaments that Arthur finds himself in

1563
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:25,839
Speaker 2: and is extremely complicated life, you know in the before times,

1564
01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:31,440
Speaker 2: is this through line of the need to create, to express,

1565
01:23:31,640 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 2: to communicate in some way, whether it's you know, through

1566
01:23:35,720 --> 01:23:40,479
Speaker 2: a play or performing a tribe called quest song, whatever

1567
01:23:40,560 --> 01:23:43,720
Speaker 2: it is that you can take the money away from it.

1568
01:23:43,800 --> 01:23:47,519
Speaker 2: You can take the beautiful, the once beautiful poolhouse that

1569
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:49,360
Speaker 2: is now in ashes, you can take all that stuff

1570
01:23:49,400 --> 01:23:51,320
Speaker 2: away from it, but we still need to do this

1571
01:23:51,520 --> 01:23:52,559
Speaker 2: for whatever reason.

1572
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:54,439
Speaker 1: We need to express ourselves.

1573
01:23:54,720 --> 01:23:57,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, how much did you talk about that as a

1574
01:23:57,800 --> 01:23:58,599
Speaker 2: as a casting crew?

1575
01:23:58,720 --> 01:24:02,040
Speaker 5: A lot? You know, And I think fame is confusing

1576
01:24:03,640 --> 01:24:07,519
Speaker 5: for artists because like they are, they go hand in

1577
01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:11,240
Speaker 5: hand sometimes, but they're not the same thing. Nor is

1578
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:14,840
Speaker 5: success really the same thing as scratching that it's you're

1579
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:19,320
Speaker 5: talking about. But I think you're in La, right. I

1580
01:24:19,320 --> 01:24:21,080
Speaker 5: don't know if it's La. Maybe I've just been here

1581
01:24:21,120 --> 01:24:24,360
Speaker 5: too long. But we do this thing in this town

1582
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:28,320
Speaker 5: that designates some humans as creatives and some as not.

1583
01:24:29,640 --> 01:24:32,680
Speaker 5: That's very true, and I'm guilty of it, and I

1584
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:35,120
Speaker 5: you know, I self ident it's usually when you're fighting

1585
01:24:35,120 --> 01:24:38,920
Speaker 5: a fight about money or just about like whose right

1586
01:24:39,080 --> 01:24:42,160
Speaker 5: is it to make the choice? Right now? We draw

1587
01:24:42,200 --> 01:24:45,479
Speaker 5: this line. But like I think, deep down, come on,

1588
01:24:45,800 --> 01:24:51,160
Speaker 5: like everybody, everybody has this thing which in them, which

1589
01:24:51,200 --> 01:24:53,240
Speaker 5: is like I want to make it because it matters,

1590
01:24:53,280 --> 01:24:55,360
Speaker 5: because it's in my soul, in my heart, and I'm

1591
01:24:55,360 --> 01:24:57,360
Speaker 5: going to push and I don't get it, but I'm

1592
01:24:57,400 --> 01:24:59,439
Speaker 5: on a mission and it's the most important thing in

1593
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:01,160
Speaker 5: the world that I get this out of me. Whatever

1594
01:25:01,200 --> 01:25:03,559
Speaker 5: it is, like, it doesn't have to be a graphic novel.

1595
01:25:03,640 --> 01:25:06,439
Speaker 5: It can be I'm from Wisconsin. I mean the same

1596
01:25:06,479 --> 01:25:09,000
Speaker 5: thing can play out in a in an automobile factory

1597
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:12,759
Speaker 5: in the rust belt. I think it's probably even harder,

1598
01:25:13,360 --> 01:25:16,519
Speaker 5: Like right, if you're in a systematized in like an

1599
01:25:16,560 --> 01:25:20,599
Speaker 5: assembly line, you can't be artisanal, you know, like you

1600
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:24,360
Speaker 5: can't you can't make a thing that's like that's expressing

1601
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:28,320
Speaker 5: you when you're in a job that makes you a

1602
01:25:28,320 --> 01:25:31,040
Speaker 5: part of a system. But like everyone's a creative and

1603
01:25:31,120 --> 01:25:33,160
Speaker 5: I think so we yes, we talked about it, but

1604
01:25:33,200 --> 01:25:36,760
Speaker 5: it was It's a very accessible conversation. Everyone wants to

1605
01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:40,040
Speaker 5: have that conversation, and you know, and actors, I think

1606
01:25:40,160 --> 01:25:43,840
Speaker 5: you know, are living that life always and performing other

1607
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:46,920
Speaker 5: people's roles sometimes, you know, like it gets complicated. But

1608
01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:49,479
Speaker 5: I think one thing I found making the show that

1609
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:54,080
Speaker 5: we sort of as a family of producers and heads

1610
01:25:54,080 --> 01:25:57,040
Speaker 5: of department and below the line and above the line

1611
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:01,519
Speaker 5: and the executives everyone people like this conversation like what's

1612
01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:03,360
Speaker 5: the thing inside of you that you need to get

1613
01:26:03,400 --> 01:26:05,080
Speaker 5: out that you haven't been able to get out before?

1614
01:26:05,640 --> 01:26:09,000
Speaker 5: That feels really important to everybody, and I think like

1615
01:26:09,080 --> 01:26:13,200
Speaker 5: that was sort of a unifying idea as we made

1616
01:26:13,240 --> 01:26:15,960
Speaker 5: the show, from s to scene, from timeline to timeline.

1617
01:26:15,960 --> 01:26:19,040
Speaker 5: That's kind of a consistent thing that hopefully I don't know,

1618
01:26:19,120 --> 01:26:21,879
Speaker 5: did you ever get confused jumping from time to time.

1619
01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:25,320
Speaker 2: Yes, but in a great way where it's about that

1620
01:26:25,439 --> 01:26:26,280
Speaker 2: discovery of.

1621
01:26:26,360 --> 01:26:28,639
Speaker 1: Oh where am I right now? What am I learning

1622
01:26:28,640 --> 01:26:29,680
Speaker 1: about these characters?

1623
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:32,680
Speaker 2: Because of that feeling of displacement, I think, you know,

1624
01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:34,760
Speaker 2: one of the things that your show does so well

1625
01:26:34,840 --> 01:26:39,040
Speaker 2: is is kind of mine that space of I think

1626
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:42,200
Speaker 2: of the conversation that Kristen has with Cody where he's

1627
01:26:42,240 --> 01:26:45,920
Speaker 2: asking about the internet, right, you know, so you could

1628
01:26:45,960 --> 01:26:48,200
Speaker 2: just talk to anybody, you know, like anytime. Yeah, you

1629
01:26:48,200 --> 01:26:50,240
Speaker 2: could talk to anybody, you could send them anything, you

1630
01:26:50,240 --> 01:26:57,120
Speaker 2: could read any book, and it sounds so amazing and incredible.

1631
01:26:57,520 --> 01:26:59,920
Speaker 2: But then you take that away and there is this

1632
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:03,719
Speaker 2: mystery of discovering things. And that's how I would feel

1633
01:27:03,800 --> 01:27:06,240
Speaker 2: if at any moment I was like, oh gosh, where

1634
01:27:06,320 --> 01:27:09,400
Speaker 2: are we right now? What timeline are we in? Where

1635
01:27:09,400 --> 01:27:12,760
Speaker 2: in the story is happening? It added to the for me,

1636
01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:16,439
Speaker 2: added to the mystique of the show.

1637
01:27:17,080 --> 01:27:18,040
Speaker 1: I want to ask about.

1638
01:27:18,280 --> 01:27:23,120
Speaker 2: One thing the book does wonderfully is harness coincidence in

1639
01:27:23,160 --> 01:27:25,840
Speaker 2: a way that doesn't feel hacky, you know. It feels

1640
01:27:25,840 --> 01:27:30,360
Speaker 2: like life and these kind of like intersecting lives and

1641
01:27:30,400 --> 01:27:35,040
Speaker 2: connections and chance meetings that I think, if not done well,

1642
01:27:35,160 --> 01:27:38,040
Speaker 2: would feel like cheating, right, but in your hands, in

1643
01:27:38,080 --> 01:27:41,040
Speaker 2: the crew's hands, in Emily's hands, it just feels like

1644
01:27:41,439 --> 01:27:45,000
Speaker 2: the magic of life. How careful were you when deploying

1645
01:27:45,040 --> 01:27:50,160
Speaker 2: these kind of like moments of fate intersecting into our characters' lives.

1646
01:27:50,400 --> 01:27:53,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think it's it's all about like, which ones

1647
01:27:53,200 --> 01:27:55,160
Speaker 5: do you do? Which ones do you choose not to

1648
01:27:55,240 --> 01:27:58,040
Speaker 5: which ones do you hold? And which which the ones

1649
01:27:58,040 --> 01:28:01,000
Speaker 5: do you almost do and not do? And I think,

1650
01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:05,599
Speaker 5: like there's this interesting category that doesn't get tracked, which

1651
01:28:05,640 --> 01:28:08,640
Speaker 5: is the I guess it like something like the almost coincidence.

1652
01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:12,080
Speaker 5: I remember when I was a short story writer. One

1653
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:14,720
Speaker 5: of the first short stories I ever wrote or got published,

1654
01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:17,360
Speaker 5: I just sort of like wandered into this sentence and

1655
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:19,680
Speaker 5: I kind of like blew my own mind, but not

1656
01:28:19,840 --> 01:28:22,280
Speaker 5: for the like the literary anything of it, but just

1657
01:28:22,280 --> 01:28:24,599
Speaker 5: the idea. I was like, WHOA. And I think the

1658
01:28:24,640 --> 01:28:27,400
Speaker 5: line in this story is it's about a kid and

1659
01:28:27,439 --> 01:28:29,559
Speaker 5: he's in gym class in high school and he's underwater

1660
01:28:29,640 --> 01:28:32,559
Speaker 5: having a thought, and he's sort of like he thought

1661
01:28:32,560 --> 01:28:38,759
Speaker 5: about how coincidence, amazing coincidences were almost happening all the time,

1662
01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:41,080
Speaker 5: but no one knew that they were almost happening, so

1663
01:28:41,760 --> 01:28:45,240
Speaker 5: they didn't matter, and like the ones we remember are

1664
01:28:45,280 --> 01:28:48,960
Speaker 5: the ones that happened. That makes sense, so like yeah, so,

1665
01:28:48,960 --> 01:28:52,960
Speaker 5: so one cool thing about the show about the population

1666
01:28:53,120 --> 01:28:56,360
Speaker 5: density going down to what it was is that like

1667
01:28:56,439 --> 01:28:59,839
Speaker 5: it's sort of I think increased the chances of profoundly

1668
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:04,760
Speaker 5: important crosses of characters in TV writers' rooms that this

1669
01:29:04,840 --> 01:29:07,640
Speaker 5: is a bad thing. It's called tiny town where everyone says, like,

1670
01:29:07,840 --> 01:29:10,200
Speaker 5: you can't do that because it's tiny town. You can't

1671
01:29:10,240 --> 01:29:13,320
Speaker 5: make you can't make him her sister, herr brother because

1672
01:29:13,360 --> 01:29:16,120
Speaker 5: that like it's tiny town, like everyone knows everyone and ever.

1673
01:29:16,240 --> 01:29:19,479
Speaker 5: And so there's something about the we had this ten

1674
01:29:19,600 --> 01:29:22,559
Speaker 5: hours to spread it. But you also get kind of

1675
01:29:22,600 --> 01:29:25,160
Speaker 5: like it does. It doesn't feel like a coincidence. When

1676
01:29:25,200 --> 01:29:27,120
Speaker 5: Kirsten meets Geeve in the first time, it just feels

1677
01:29:27,160 --> 01:29:31,360
Speaker 5: like you're watching two people meeting, right, but they missed

1678
01:29:31,360 --> 01:29:34,719
Speaker 5: each other all those times over the years. We didn't

1679
01:29:34,760 --> 01:29:37,360
Speaker 5: tell that story. So like there's something fair about it

1680
01:29:37,760 --> 01:29:40,280
Speaker 5: at the end, if that makes sense, you know, like

1681
01:29:40,560 --> 01:29:45,000
Speaker 5: it's it's because they didn't find each other for so

1682
01:29:45,200 --> 01:29:47,320
Speaker 5: long that if I think it feels fair that they

1683
01:29:47,360 --> 01:29:50,640
Speaker 5: do when they do, I hope, I hope that.

1684
01:29:50,800 --> 01:29:54,160
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, that moment reduced me to a heap

1685
01:29:54,479 --> 01:29:58,360
Speaker 2: of tears, and I think part of, you know, structurally,

1686
01:29:59,320 --> 01:30:02,439
Speaker 2: having watched it several times since then, I think structurally,

1687
01:30:02,479 --> 01:30:05,120
Speaker 2: part of what makes it hit so hard is that

1688
01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:09,120
Speaker 2: I was just beginning to process that she had gotten

1689
01:30:09,120 --> 01:30:10,479
Speaker 2: to the place where she could let the book go.

1690
01:30:11,120 --> 01:30:14,679
Speaker 1: You know that Kirsen had gotten to a place where

1691
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:15,479
Speaker 1: she could just say, you know.

1692
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:19,120
Speaker 2: What, I've walked a road with Station eleven.

1693
01:30:19,160 --> 01:30:20,800
Speaker 5: I'm right glad you got that, by the way, because

1694
01:30:20,800 --> 01:30:23,640
Speaker 5: she's playing not chase in that moment, which is a

1695
01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:25,920
Speaker 5: really hard thing to play. She's like, I'm going to

1696
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:28,880
Speaker 5: not chase that girl. And Mackenzie sells it so well

1697
01:30:28,920 --> 01:30:31,920
Speaker 5: when she just stops and is just thinking and it

1698
01:30:31,960 --> 01:30:34,480
Speaker 5: sounds like you felt the thing we needed you to feel.

1699
01:30:34,280 --> 01:30:37,880
Speaker 2: Right then, absolutely, And I was really just chewing over

1700
01:30:37,960 --> 01:30:41,800
Speaker 2: that moment of how profound that was for what that

1701
01:30:41,840 --> 01:30:44,960
Speaker 2: book has meant to her as a talisman of a

1702
01:30:45,000 --> 01:30:49,040
Speaker 2: previous time, as a kind of frame within which to

1703
01:30:49,080 --> 01:30:53,080
Speaker 2: put this the chaotic years of the post pandemic life,

1704
01:30:53,120 --> 01:30:55,040
Speaker 2: and then to get to a place where she can say,

1705
01:30:55,360 --> 01:30:57,920
Speaker 2: someone else can find that story, now, that's okay, And

1706
01:30:57,920 --> 01:31:02,240
Speaker 2: then to hit you with the reunion of demon in

1707
01:31:02,280 --> 01:31:05,320
Speaker 2: that moment when you're thinking about same shot is.

1708
01:31:05,240 --> 01:31:07,800
Speaker 1: Why it just I mean, it just leveled me.

1709
01:31:07,920 --> 01:31:09,840
Speaker 2: It just crushed me, you know, And I would have

1710
01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:13,040
Speaker 2: been Andy and Chris Ross brought this up on your

1711
01:31:13,040 --> 01:31:15,560
Speaker 2: conversation with them on the watch great conversation.

1712
01:31:16,560 --> 01:31:19,040
Speaker 1: I would have been okay with it not happening.

1713
01:31:19,200 --> 01:31:20,720
Speaker 2: I'd gotten to a place where I'm like, if they

1714
01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:23,080
Speaker 2: don't ever find each other, or they walk past each

1715
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:25,479
Speaker 2: other and they don't make the connection, I'm okay.

1716
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:29,200
Speaker 1: But when they did, it was it was immense. It

1717
01:31:29,280 --> 01:31:29,799
Speaker 1: was immense.

1718
01:31:30,200 --> 01:31:33,040
Speaker 5: We weren't going to do that to you just staying

1719
01:31:33,040 --> 01:31:35,639
Speaker 5: with us for that long. But also what's a better?

1720
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:38,200
Speaker 5: What's a better? Like look over here at the shiny

1721
01:31:38,240 --> 01:31:41,559
Speaker 5: objects and Deborah Cox also singing Midnight Train to Georgia.

1722
01:31:41,720 --> 01:31:44,439
Speaker 5: Oh my god, He's like, there's something emotionally that happens.

1723
01:31:44,520 --> 01:31:46,559
Speaker 5: You're just not thinking about Jeeve. And even though he

1724
01:31:46,640 --> 01:31:49,240
Speaker 5: was right there like fifteen minutes ago and you can

1725
01:31:49,240 --> 01:31:50,680
Speaker 5: see him, did you. I don't know, if you go

1726
01:31:50,760 --> 01:31:54,360
Speaker 5: back and look when when the first follow shot comes

1727
01:31:54,439 --> 01:31:57,680
Speaker 5: up and they land, he's you can see him, that

1728
01:31:57,760 --> 01:31:59,960
Speaker 5: same blue jacket, a little bit out of focus there.

1729
01:32:00,360 --> 01:32:03,040
Speaker 5: You made me think of something that from your other

1730
01:32:03,120 --> 01:32:04,800
Speaker 5: question too, Like when I read the book for the

1731
01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:07,000
Speaker 5: first time, I thought the book was about the Internet.

1732
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:10,439
Speaker 5: I don't know why, I don't exactly, but I felt

1733
01:32:10,439 --> 01:32:14,200
Speaker 5: like Emily was sort of pondering this massive new piece

1734
01:32:14,200 --> 01:32:16,800
Speaker 5: of technology that's descended on us in a very very

1735
01:32:17,520 --> 01:32:21,120
Speaker 5: brief amount of time that we've we've largely embraced as good,

1736
01:32:21,160 --> 01:32:23,920
Speaker 5: but obviously it's doing a lot of things to us,

1737
01:32:24,000 --> 01:32:27,600
Speaker 5: good and bad. It's a lot. But one question I

1738
01:32:28,160 --> 01:32:30,120
Speaker 5: asked when we were selling the show is how would

1739
01:32:30,160 --> 01:32:33,280
Speaker 5: you find someone if you didn't have the Internet? And

1740
01:32:33,320 --> 01:32:36,880
Speaker 5: then then I'll take, like we used to use milk

1741
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:42,160
Speaker 5: carton facts with photos, that's the best we could do.

1742
01:32:41,240 --> 01:32:44,840
Speaker 5: That's the end of unsolved Mysteries. When he would turn

1743
01:32:44,880 --> 01:32:47,320
Speaker 5: to camera, like even if you took TV and phone

1744
01:32:47,320 --> 01:32:50,240
Speaker 5: away too, I'm like, how would you find someone? And

1745
01:32:50,280 --> 01:32:53,559
Speaker 5: I think the really fascinating thing that came up was that,

1746
01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:57,040
Speaker 5: like people go back to the things that they love,

1747
01:32:57,640 --> 01:33:01,920
Speaker 5: you know. And the thing about art museums, like if

1748
01:33:01,920 --> 01:33:03,960
Speaker 5: there was a painting that you heard about in like

1749
01:33:04,040 --> 01:33:07,280
Speaker 5: eighteen ten, you would go, you would like get a

1750
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:10,120
Speaker 5: horse and go across on like a life threatening journey

1751
01:33:10,160 --> 01:33:13,200
Speaker 5: to go see the painting, you know, and and like

1752
01:33:13,439 --> 01:33:15,080
Speaker 5: there was huge risk to go to it. But the

1753
01:33:15,160 --> 01:33:19,040
Speaker 5: people who also would be getting there with you, those

1754
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:19,880
Speaker 5: are your people, man.

1755
01:33:20,080 --> 01:33:22,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like if they just did.

1756
01:33:22,040 --> 01:33:24,479
Speaker 5: The same thing you did, but from another country. The

1757
01:33:24,479 --> 01:33:27,000
Speaker 5: people that you love end up at the same place

1758
01:33:27,200 --> 01:33:30,320
Speaker 5: because they love the same thing, I think, and so

1759
01:33:30,439 --> 01:33:33,400
Speaker 5: like we were always gunning for that kind of reunion

1760
01:33:33,600 --> 01:33:36,120
Speaker 5: with Kirsk, you have to let go and stop looking

1761
01:33:36,400 --> 01:33:38,680
Speaker 5: and just be doing what you are, you know. And

1762
01:33:38,800 --> 01:33:41,320
Speaker 5: Jeeven's not there to find Kirsten, right, He's there to

1763
01:33:41,320 --> 01:33:43,519
Speaker 5: watch Shakespeare and then listen to good music too.

1764
01:33:43,600 --> 01:33:47,439
Speaker 2: I think you mentioning Midnitrin and Georgia made me think

1765
01:33:47,479 --> 01:33:53,080
Speaker 2: about how much I really appreciate how this story is

1766
01:33:53,120 --> 01:33:56,160
Speaker 2: not obviously the soundtrack.

1767
01:33:55,720 --> 01:33:58,040
Speaker 1: Is curated, a lot of the stuff is curated.

1768
01:33:57,680 --> 01:34:02,080
Speaker 2: But like it, there's no snob between high and low culture.

1769
01:34:02,120 --> 01:34:05,800
Speaker 2: People find meaning in this dog eared graphic novel that

1770
01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:10,439
Speaker 2: published five copies. They find meaning in Shakespeare, they find

1771
01:34:10,479 --> 01:34:14,120
Speaker 2: meaning in Lisa Lobe, and all of these fragments of

1772
01:34:14,160 --> 01:34:17,320
Speaker 2: the world before still carry like a message in a

1773
01:34:17,320 --> 01:34:20,200
Speaker 2: bottle of some sort of meaning for a person that

1774
01:34:20,240 --> 01:34:21,360
Speaker 2: can only express.

1775
01:34:21,040 --> 01:34:22,840
Speaker 1: By that thing in that moment, in that time.

1776
01:34:23,240 --> 01:34:26,800
Speaker 2: And I think that is great because we live in

1777
01:34:27,360 --> 01:34:30,120
Speaker 2: you know, we live in a time where people love

1778
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:34,400
Speaker 2: to have very strong opinions about why a certain pop

1779
01:34:34,439 --> 01:34:39,080
Speaker 2: cultural thing or anything else is ruining everything and your

1780
01:34:39,080 --> 01:34:42,080
Speaker 2: story does not take that take that angle. The stuff

1781
01:34:42,120 --> 01:34:45,400
Speaker 2: that they have is what they have to communicate with

1782
01:34:45,520 --> 01:34:47,600
Speaker 2: and to remember and to express themselves with.

1783
01:34:48,360 --> 01:34:52,280
Speaker 5: I'm you know, taste is a touchy subject to.

1784
01:34:52,200 --> 01:34:54,360
Speaker 1: Me, it is to everyone.

1785
01:34:54,400 --> 01:34:57,719
Speaker 5: I think I get really really mad at people who

1786
01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:00,960
Speaker 5: are know it all in their taste around. I don't

1787
01:35:01,000 --> 01:35:04,040
Speaker 5: know why I bristle so much. It's probably we could

1788
01:35:04,040 --> 01:35:07,240
Speaker 5: probably get to the bottom of it a psychoanalyst. But

1789
01:35:07,760 --> 01:35:10,720
Speaker 5: but I'll tell you this, like for some reason, I

1790
01:35:11,200 --> 01:35:16,360
Speaker 5: have memory, like I have memories of tech techmobile touchdowns

1791
01:35:17,040 --> 01:35:23,559
Speaker 5: that are more emotionally laden then you know, polyiachi or

1792
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:25,600
Speaker 5: like something that my dad tried to show me that

1793
01:35:25,840 --> 01:35:30,800
Speaker 5: was high art. And I think, like maybe the reason

1794
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:33,400
Speaker 5: I bristle when people fly in and say like this

1795
01:35:33,439 --> 01:35:35,400
Speaker 5: is better than that, because this is better than that

1796
01:35:35,439 --> 01:35:38,559
Speaker 5: because you don't know this about this musician that thing.

1797
01:35:38,680 --> 01:35:40,280
Speaker 5: I hate it so much, as like it's just not

1798
01:35:40,320 --> 01:35:44,240
Speaker 5: what the heart does really and nor is it what

1799
01:35:44,360 --> 01:35:47,800
Speaker 5: memory does. It's it's very I like, I mean, I'm

1800
01:35:47,800 --> 01:35:51,240
Speaker 5: a snob too, so like I'm a massive snob, but

1801
01:35:51,280 --> 01:35:54,120
Speaker 5: I'm also so on guard when someone flies in and

1802
01:35:54,160 --> 01:35:58,120
Speaker 5: tells me this isn't valuable because it's middlebrow, and this

1803
01:35:58,200 --> 01:36:01,680
Speaker 5: isn't valuable because it's low brow. Yet I do it

1804
01:36:01,720 --> 01:36:04,400
Speaker 5: too at times, but I think like it really I

1805
01:36:04,479 --> 01:36:07,639
Speaker 5: find it just jams back to the thing you said before,

1806
01:36:07,840 --> 01:36:12,240
Speaker 5: Like I'm trying to connect with a person, not compete

1807
01:36:12,280 --> 01:36:16,840
Speaker 5: with them about my knowledge of music or compete with

1808
01:36:16,880 --> 01:36:20,360
Speaker 5: them about like am I smarter or not because I

1809
01:36:20,400 --> 01:36:22,680
Speaker 5: know about this book. I just want to have a

1810
01:36:22,680 --> 01:36:26,360
Speaker 5: good time with a human. And sometimes I think when

1811
01:36:26,400 --> 01:36:30,280
Speaker 5: people start deploying that stuff, it feels more like defensive

1812
01:36:30,439 --> 01:36:37,080
Speaker 5: armor or like culturally acquired weaponry than reaching out and

1813
01:36:37,120 --> 01:36:39,600
Speaker 5: being like, hey, who are you? What do you like?

1814
01:36:40,000 --> 01:36:42,000
Speaker 5: That's one, that's one thing you can ask what do

1815
01:36:42,040 --> 01:36:43,960
Speaker 5: you like? And but then there's like what do you like?

1816
01:36:44,479 --> 01:36:47,760
Speaker 2: Nobody you like as an indicator of how much I'm

1817
01:36:47,800 --> 01:36:50,760
Speaker 2: going to accept or reject you or destroy.

1818
01:36:50,360 --> 01:36:52,880
Speaker 5: You publicly in front of people. Yeah, Like, I don't

1819
01:36:52,960 --> 01:36:55,120
Speaker 5: like that thing at all, And I think that I

1820
01:36:55,120 --> 01:36:58,280
Speaker 5: think the show embodies a little bit at a high

1821
01:36:58,280 --> 01:37:03,280
Speaker 5: low thing just because like I've had profound experiences with

1822
01:37:03,280 --> 01:37:08,400
Speaker 5: with folk, the folk tradition as well as like Paganini.

1823
01:37:08,840 --> 01:37:11,800
Speaker 5: You know, they're both great. There's space, there's something we

1824
01:37:11,880 --> 01:37:14,400
Speaker 5: need it. There's enough room for all of it.

1825
01:37:14,520 --> 01:37:17,519
Speaker 2: You mentioned thinking that the book was maybe about the Internet.

1826
01:37:17,560 --> 01:37:19,400
Speaker 2: I wonder if you could unpack that a little bit,

1827
01:37:19,439 --> 01:37:22,559
Speaker 2: because I think there I think they're right in that.

1828
01:37:23,439 --> 01:37:25,559
Speaker 2: I kept thinking about how, you know, I have a

1829
01:37:25,640 --> 01:37:29,000
Speaker 2: kindle for space reasons because I love books, but I

1830
01:37:29,040 --> 01:37:30,840
Speaker 2: can't possibly house every book.

1831
01:37:31,160 --> 01:37:33,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's piles of things behind you right now. I

1832
01:37:33,080 --> 01:37:34,799
Speaker 5: can see your listeners can't.

1833
01:37:35,120 --> 01:37:37,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if we get to that listen, we get

1834
01:37:37,680 --> 01:37:39,719
Speaker 2: to that place where it all shuts down.

1835
01:37:41,000 --> 01:37:41,840
Speaker 1: I just won't have that.

1836
01:37:41,880 --> 01:37:44,760
Speaker 2: I'll have everything that I physically have, but you know,

1837
01:37:45,640 --> 01:37:49,599
Speaker 2: everything that we stream is least every you know, all

1838
01:37:49,600 --> 01:37:52,559
Speaker 2: my ebooks gone in that way, I did see it

1839
01:37:52,560 --> 01:37:55,280
Speaker 2: through the lens of the Internet. But I wonder if

1840
01:37:55,320 --> 01:37:58,040
Speaker 2: you can unpack how why you engage with it that line.

1841
01:37:58,160 --> 01:38:01,240
Speaker 5: Yeah, really it was an intuition because it was twenty fourteen.

1842
01:38:02,080 --> 01:38:04,920
Speaker 5: In that moment, I'm trying to remember, did Twitter exist

1843
01:38:04,920 --> 01:38:05,679
Speaker 5: in twenty fourteen?

1844
01:38:06,200 --> 01:38:06,479
Speaker 1: Yes?

1845
01:38:07,200 --> 01:38:07,960
Speaker 5: Was it kind of new?

1846
01:38:08,560 --> 01:38:11,519
Speaker 2: It was p we all, you know, I think it

1847
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:14,320
Speaker 2: was slightly less toxic, but new is I think two

1848
01:38:14,360 --> 01:38:15,479
Speaker 2: thousand and eight is when it came in.

1849
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:20,240
Speaker 5: Well, there's a passage in Emily's novel that's very memorable.

1850
01:38:21,000 --> 01:38:23,120
Speaker 5: In fact, we had it scripted for a long time.

1851
01:38:23,160 --> 01:38:26,120
Speaker 5: It was we had parlayed it into a speech that

1852
01:38:26,200 --> 01:38:28,439
Speaker 5: the prophet made it to his kids. But it starts

1853
01:38:28,479 --> 01:38:32,320
Speaker 5: no more Internet, No more, and it's no more, no more,

1854
01:38:32,400 --> 01:38:35,000
Speaker 5: no more, no more, and no more, And it's about

1855
01:38:35,040 --> 01:38:38,519
Speaker 5: all these pieces of technology that were no longer there.

1856
01:38:38,520 --> 01:38:41,479
Speaker 5: But it's an elegy. The way that she writes about

1857
01:38:41,520 --> 01:38:45,080
Speaker 5: it is sort of like, don't you realize what we had?

1858
01:38:45,800 --> 01:38:49,680
Speaker 5: Like it was so powerful, this thing we made, and

1859
01:38:49,720 --> 01:38:54,559
Speaker 5: we fucking wasted it on garbage, Like what could we

1860
01:38:54,680 --> 01:38:58,000
Speaker 5: have done with this? We made a thing that connects everyone,

1861
01:38:58,160 --> 01:39:01,479
Speaker 5: like yay, and then it already I think in twenty

1862
01:39:01,479 --> 01:39:04,880
Speaker 5: fourteen was looking like, oh man, this is a lot

1863
01:39:04,920 --> 01:39:07,400
Speaker 5: of baggage and new bad shit in my life. I

1864
01:39:07,400 --> 01:39:10,120
Speaker 5: don't want just like like phones doing that kind of

1865
01:39:10,160 --> 01:39:14,400
Speaker 5: like yay of fuck and And I think there's that

1866
01:39:14,439 --> 01:39:16,640
Speaker 5: part of the book that pinged it for me. But

1867
01:39:16,680 --> 01:39:19,719
Speaker 5: there's another part of the book we didn't do it. It's

1868
01:39:19,520 --> 01:39:22,160
Speaker 5: they run into some dude who's got like a bicycle

1869
01:39:22,560 --> 01:39:26,160
Speaker 5: hooked up to a laptop. Yeah, right, And he's just pedaling,

1870
01:39:26,240 --> 01:39:31,280
Speaker 5: and like you, there's like a whisper of like HTML

1871
01:39:31,400 --> 01:39:35,000
Speaker 5: sites or something kind of appears. But like the younger

1872
01:39:35,080 --> 01:39:39,799
Speaker 5: people are sort of like, ah, like could that have been? Really?

1873
01:39:40,000 --> 01:39:42,880
Speaker 5: Like we need that so badly now, and so I thought.

1874
01:39:43,040 --> 01:39:46,880
Speaker 5: And then but then in the Beforetime in Emily's novel,

1875
01:39:46,880 --> 01:39:49,519
Speaker 5: another thing we didn't do with these letters that were

1876
01:39:49,520 --> 01:39:51,720
Speaker 5: coming out in a book that we're gonna kind of

1877
01:39:51,760 --> 01:39:54,439
Speaker 5: screw Arthur over there was going to be a scandal.

1878
01:39:55,040 --> 01:39:57,880
Speaker 5: There were letters from an old lover and there's a

1879
01:39:57,920 --> 01:40:00,000
Speaker 5: new piece of media on the way that he really

1880
01:40:00,040 --> 01:40:03,160
Speaker 5: really really really really wished wasn't coming. And so like

1881
01:40:03,280 --> 01:40:05,960
Speaker 5: each side of the line for her had these examples

1882
01:40:06,000 --> 01:40:10,280
Speaker 5: of like how mass communication is the best and worst

1883
01:40:10,320 --> 01:40:13,839
Speaker 5: thing that ever happened to us, and that's that's always

1884
01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:17,200
Speaker 5: going to be a thing that we were reckoning with.

1885
01:40:17,400 --> 01:40:22,639
Speaker 5: And I think turning off the Internet in twenty fourteen

1886
01:40:22,960 --> 01:40:24,840
Speaker 5: it was the feeling of that wave. I think that

1887
01:40:24,960 --> 01:40:27,000
Speaker 5: right around them is like, oh, this is a this

1888
01:40:27,080 --> 01:40:30,360
Speaker 5: is a seismic paradigm shift for human culture forever. But

1889
01:40:30,680 --> 01:40:33,320
Speaker 5: we're only like eight years into it, so it doesn't

1890
01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:38,880
Speaker 5: we don't have perspective yet. On it, but I just

1891
01:40:38,880 --> 01:40:41,000
Speaker 5: could feel her trying to engage. I think in some

1892
01:40:41,080 --> 01:40:43,240
Speaker 5: of these ideas that are too big to even talk about,

1893
01:40:43,280 --> 01:40:44,920
Speaker 5: like I don't I still don't know how, I don't

1894
01:40:44,920 --> 01:40:46,040
Speaker 5: know how to talk about it. I don't want to

1895
01:40:46,080 --> 01:40:48,280
Speaker 5: go off the grid, or like I don't want to

1896
01:40:48,320 --> 01:40:50,880
Speaker 5: take a year off my phone, like that's give me

1897
01:40:50,920 --> 01:40:54,120
Speaker 5: a fucking break, Like that's impossible. But at the same time,

1898
01:40:54,120 --> 01:40:55,280
Speaker 5: it sounds healthy.

1899
01:40:55,760 --> 01:40:58,120
Speaker 1: Right I.

1900
01:40:58,120 --> 01:41:01,479
Speaker 2: I keep thinking about Code's reaction, which is this sounds magical?

1901
01:41:01,800 --> 01:41:05,160
Speaker 2: Does this sounds like a magic world? You could have

1902
01:41:05,200 --> 01:41:08,200
Speaker 2: done anything you wanted, you were never alone. And at

1903
01:41:08,200 --> 01:41:12,639
Speaker 2: the same time, it's so hard to to express the

1904
01:41:12,760 --> 01:41:17,600
Speaker 2: extreme downsides to this, and also how to explain to

1905
01:41:17,760 --> 01:41:20,479
Speaker 2: someone who had never had that experience that with all

1906
01:41:20,560 --> 01:41:23,800
Speaker 2: that power, you're absolutely right, with all that power at

1907
01:41:23,840 --> 01:41:27,800
Speaker 2: our disposal, we squandered it, We wasted it.

1908
01:41:27,800 --> 01:41:29,720
Speaker 1: We couldn't be nice to each other even we could

1909
01:41:29,760 --> 01:41:34,920
Speaker 1: barely do that shutting Yeah, it took shutting everything off

1910
01:41:35,120 --> 01:41:39,680
Speaker 1: for the power of simple kindness to like rise to

1911
01:41:40,439 --> 01:41:43,400
Speaker 1: the four I was wondering. I was reading your.

1912
01:41:44,680 --> 01:41:47,000
Speaker 2: You're in an interview you did with LitHub where you

1913
01:41:47,080 --> 01:41:49,800
Speaker 2: mentioned that of the book that you didn't it's not

1914
01:41:49,840 --> 01:41:53,120
Speaker 2: a sci fi story. In paraphrasing your words back to you,

1915
01:41:53,120 --> 01:41:55,439
Speaker 2: you didn't consider it a sci fi story. You saw

1916
01:41:55,479 --> 01:42:00,639
Speaker 2: it as humanism. Is that what you meant by it?

1917
01:42:00,680 --> 01:42:04,720
Speaker 2: Is kind of like rediscovering these connections without the artificialness.

1918
01:42:04,840 --> 01:42:08,000
Speaker 5: I think what I was doing there was probably rejecting

1919
01:42:08,200 --> 01:42:11,639
Speaker 5: a framework that Hollywood wants to impose on a story.

1920
01:42:11,640 --> 01:42:15,599
Speaker 5: If you say the word post apocalyptic, post apocalypse, right,

1921
01:42:16,120 --> 01:42:18,000
Speaker 5: and which is bored and then you're right on the

1922
01:42:18,080 --> 01:42:22,120
Speaker 5: edge of supernatural too. Because like this blew my mind

1923
01:42:22,120 --> 01:42:24,439
Speaker 5: when I moved to LA because I I was a

1924
01:42:24,439 --> 01:42:27,240
Speaker 5: fiction writer and I got an MFA and like my

1925
01:42:27,560 --> 01:42:32,360
Speaker 5: the word genre to me, genre was like which genre?

1926
01:42:32,880 --> 01:42:34,880
Speaker 5: You know? Like are we in this genre? Or that

1927
01:42:35,080 --> 01:42:39,080
Speaker 5: it was a category. But here people would say it's

1928
01:42:39,120 --> 01:42:43,120
Speaker 5: either genre or not genre, which meant like, I guess,

1929
01:42:43,640 --> 01:42:48,760
Speaker 5: realism or all the other shit right exactly, magic space,

1930
01:42:49,479 --> 01:42:53,400
Speaker 5: like whatever, why bank heist? That's genre? So it's all

1931
01:42:53,400 --> 01:42:56,160
Speaker 5: it was all one huge clump of like hyper story

1932
01:42:56,360 --> 01:43:00,760
Speaker 5: versus grounded story, I guess. And so when I first

1933
01:43:00,800 --> 01:43:02,920
Speaker 5: went to the producer who had the rights of the book,

1934
01:43:02,960 --> 01:43:06,200
Speaker 5: Scott Steindorff, he I think had gone down the road

1935
01:43:06,240 --> 01:43:09,040
Speaker 5: a bit with developing it as a movie that I

1936
01:43:09,080 --> 01:43:11,639
Speaker 5: think was leaning a little more into the quote unquote

1937
01:43:11,640 --> 01:43:14,040
Speaker 5: sci fi of it. And what I said to Scott

1938
01:43:14,080 --> 01:43:16,760
Speaker 5: was like, this is exactly the opposite, Like I think

1939
01:43:16,800 --> 01:43:20,960
Speaker 5: the move is lean hard away from that stuff, like

1940
01:43:21,280 --> 01:43:24,080
Speaker 5: do the thing like a flu came a lot of

1941
01:43:25,120 --> 01:43:26,599
Speaker 5: it was scary, there were a lot of dusts. But

1942
01:43:26,680 --> 01:43:30,400
Speaker 5: then throw it away, you know. And someone in our

1943
01:43:30,400 --> 01:43:33,400
Speaker 5: writer's room, in our early writers room, this was a gift.

1944
01:43:33,439 --> 01:43:34,880
Speaker 5: It was Nick Q's who said this, but he was

1945
01:43:34,920 --> 01:43:38,480
Speaker 5: sort of like all the dudes who have like necklaces

1946
01:43:38,520 --> 01:43:41,880
Speaker 5: made out of ears died already in the first like

1947
01:43:41,920 --> 01:43:45,800
Speaker 5: six months. The whole genre that we know it as

1948
01:43:45,960 --> 01:43:49,120
Speaker 5: post apocalyptic like lasted like seven or eight months or so,

1949
01:43:49,200 --> 01:43:50,800
Speaker 5: and they all killed each other and they're gone, and

1950
01:43:50,840 --> 01:43:54,000
Speaker 5: now what There's so many more interesting things to do

1951
01:43:54,080 --> 01:43:56,519
Speaker 5: than like did they eat each other or not? You know,

1952
01:43:56,680 --> 01:43:59,519
Speaker 5: I liked The Road by Cornick McCarthy when it came out.

1953
01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:01,960
Speaker 5: It shook me. There had been many versions of that

1954
01:44:02,080 --> 01:44:06,200
Speaker 5: novel in the last fifty years, but in nine when

1955
01:44:06,360 --> 01:44:10,560
Speaker 5: Young Heirs, they get a road cloud and Kirsten.

1956
01:44:10,200 --> 01:44:11,280
Speaker 3: Says I hate the road.

1957
01:44:11,600 --> 01:44:14,480
Speaker 5: That's me saying I hate the road like that definitely

1958
01:44:14,640 --> 01:44:18,320
Speaker 5: is like a shot at the kind of like cannibalism

1959
01:44:18,720 --> 01:44:22,360
Speaker 5: version of post apocalyptic. And also, why do they this

1960
01:44:22,439 --> 01:44:26,479
Speaker 5: is another pet peeve. Why is that sci fi? Someone

1961
01:44:26,520 --> 01:44:29,639
Speaker 5: explained to me. Why why that's sci fi? Like it's

1962
01:44:30,680 --> 01:44:33,200
Speaker 5: there's no space opera elements. I don't know.

1963
01:44:34,040 --> 01:44:39,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Road obviously looms so large in this genre,

1964
01:44:40,040 --> 01:44:42,400
Speaker 2: as you know, as critically acclaimed as it.

1965
01:44:42,439 --> 01:44:47,439
Speaker 1: Was as a Oprah Book of the Month club pick.

1966
01:44:47,680 --> 01:44:48,599
Speaker 1: You know all of that.

1967
01:44:49,080 --> 01:44:53,080
Speaker 2: Cormack McCarthy, you know, one of the.

1968
01:44:51,960 --> 01:44:52,800
Speaker 1: Titans of.

1969
01:44:55,200 --> 01:44:57,920
Speaker 5: Every sentence is amazing. It's it's annoyingly amazing.

1970
01:44:58,439 --> 01:44:59,719
Speaker 1: It's annoyingly amazing.

1971
01:45:00,320 --> 01:45:04,080
Speaker 2: At the same time it is this absolute grind and

1972
01:45:04,840 --> 01:45:06,200
Speaker 2: there is there are notes of hope.

1973
01:45:06,360 --> 01:45:07,639
Speaker 1: Listen, you know, I think we're.

1974
01:45:07,520 --> 01:45:08,719
Speaker 5: All the last sentence.

1975
01:45:09,000 --> 01:45:11,200
Speaker 2: I like to think about us in our lives right now,

1976
01:45:11,240 --> 01:45:16,479
Speaker 2: carrying the fire forward. But your story is so much

1977
01:45:16,760 --> 01:45:20,280
Speaker 2: more infused with hope. When you thought about the nuts

1978
01:45:20,280 --> 01:45:24,160
Speaker 2: and bolts of how to do that, you know, you

1979
01:45:24,240 --> 01:45:27,400
Speaker 2: mentioned kind of steering away from the kind of like

1980
01:45:27,479 --> 01:45:28,320
Speaker 2: death porn.

1981
01:45:28,240 --> 01:45:30,720
Speaker 5: But that's like a negative, Yeah, like, what are the

1982
01:45:30,720 --> 01:45:32,080
Speaker 5: positive things we're going toward.

1983
01:45:32,520 --> 01:45:34,760
Speaker 1: How did you how did you move towards that light?

1984
01:45:35,040 --> 01:45:39,000
Speaker 5: Well, I'll be honest, Like there's something hyper masculinized about

1985
01:45:39,200 --> 01:45:42,640
Speaker 5: the road, and there's something hyper masculinized about Lord of

1986
01:45:42,680 --> 01:45:45,960
Speaker 5: the Flies. It's like there is a set of assumptions

1987
01:45:45,960 --> 01:45:50,639
Speaker 5: about what human beings are that I don't think are rights,

1988
01:45:51,280 --> 01:45:54,360
Speaker 5: even though they feel right and they're quite exciting. And

1989
01:45:54,400 --> 01:45:56,519
Speaker 5: like we've all been in dangerous situations when it's like,

1990
01:45:56,560 --> 01:45:59,280
Speaker 5: oh fuck, there's no rules, everyone's going to do whatever.

1991
01:45:59,760 --> 01:46:03,160
Speaker 5: Ye's Actually, we self organize really well and are generally

1992
01:46:03,280 --> 01:46:05,720
Speaker 5: kind of kinds to each other in small groups, and

1993
01:46:05,840 --> 01:46:08,639
Speaker 5: like solve problems pretty well together and like are watching

1994
01:46:08,680 --> 01:46:14,200
Speaker 5: out for each other unless like money or or like

1995
01:46:14,360 --> 01:46:18,280
Speaker 5: seduction of opportunity of tremendous power comes into the mix.

1996
01:46:18,320 --> 01:46:22,240
Speaker 5: But it's usually an outside system that makes us start

1997
01:46:22,280 --> 01:46:25,599
Speaker 5: doing the bad things to each other. So like squid

1998
01:46:25,600 --> 01:46:29,599
Speaker 5: Games is another example. Like I was very very drawn

1999
01:46:29,640 --> 01:46:35,280
Speaker 5: into squid Games storytelling wise, what its focus was, how

2000
01:46:35,400 --> 01:46:38,160
Speaker 5: it was sort of navigating, But squid Games is a

2001
01:46:38,200 --> 01:46:42,840
Speaker 5: little different to me because the system got made by

2002
01:46:43,680 --> 01:46:47,160
Speaker 5: a billionaire, right, you know, and then like people got

2003
01:46:47,439 --> 01:46:49,840
Speaker 5: that they're hanging that giant tub of money over them

2004
01:46:50,360 --> 01:46:54,240
Speaker 5: and then people start behaving badly. But like I think

2005
01:46:54,360 --> 01:46:57,240
Speaker 5: to answer your question, we just were sort of like

2006
01:46:57,280 --> 01:47:01,120
Speaker 5: what if we just didn't do that where everyone is

2007
01:47:01,160 --> 01:47:05,960
Speaker 5: awful and imagines, like what are micro stories about race

2008
01:47:06,240 --> 01:47:09,559
Speaker 5: or micro stories about being queer in this space? Like

2009
01:47:09,600 --> 01:47:14,160
Speaker 5: what would happen to identity? What would happen if you

2010
01:47:14,240 --> 01:47:17,599
Speaker 5: had a best friend but it was like an older gentleman,

2011
01:47:17,680 --> 01:47:21,680
Speaker 5: but you were not in any kind of erotic dynamic whatsoever.

2012
01:47:21,800 --> 01:47:24,960
Speaker 5: Like relationships would start we got down this good spot,

2013
01:47:25,080 --> 01:47:28,080
Speaker 5: like relationships would start doing these funky wobbly things where

2014
01:47:28,080 --> 01:47:34,240
Speaker 5: like uncle, niece, sister, brother would merge in a safe way.

2015
01:47:34,840 --> 01:47:38,080
Speaker 5: We just I think we tended to lean toward exploring

2016
01:47:38,160 --> 01:47:43,719
Speaker 5: safe dynamics between humans instead of exploring dangerous dynamics between

2017
01:47:43,760 --> 01:47:47,360
Speaker 5: humans because those things were happening in our world. The

2018
01:47:47,439 --> 01:47:50,800
Speaker 5: camera just wasn't floating over those ones. Because there's one

2019
01:47:50,840 --> 01:47:53,080
Speaker 5: hundred other shows that did that, and like you can

2020
01:47:53,120 --> 01:47:55,680
Speaker 5: go watch them if you want to get into the

2021
01:47:55,720 --> 01:47:58,360
Speaker 5: realism of that whatever, you know, like we just did

2022
01:47:58,360 --> 01:47:59,160
Speaker 5: one that was different.

2023
01:47:59,320 --> 01:48:04,439
Speaker 2: You show really highlights how powerful just like simple kindness,

2024
01:48:04,439 --> 01:48:06,040
Speaker 2: I mean This is part of what I've been thinking

2025
01:48:06,080 --> 01:48:08,800
Speaker 2: about during our conversation watching your show, is how I

2026
01:48:08,840 --> 01:48:11,000
Speaker 2: mean we can we're trapped in the system with the

2027
01:48:11,000 --> 01:48:13,280
Speaker 2: internet going with all the kind of complexity of the world,

2028
01:48:13,320 --> 01:48:15,759
Speaker 2: and it can feel like you can't really do anything.

2029
01:48:15,800 --> 01:48:18,599
Speaker 2: You might post something nice about somebody, but it feels

2030
01:48:18,640 --> 01:48:22,200
Speaker 2: like it just goes away your story because it strips

2031
01:48:22,200 --> 01:48:26,680
Speaker 2: all that away, really just brings to the forefront. Just

2032
01:48:26,840 --> 01:48:29,320
Speaker 2: holding someone's hand and listening to them, Like, how what

2033
01:48:29,400 --> 01:48:32,559
Speaker 2: a powerful life changing event that walking someone home that

2034
01:48:32,640 --> 01:48:37,200
Speaker 2: you didn't have to What a powerful life changing thing

2035
01:48:37,320 --> 01:48:40,040
Speaker 2: that can be, even if it feels like something that

2036
01:48:40,080 --> 01:48:43,720
Speaker 2: you might throw away being nice to a kid backstage,

2037
01:48:44,560 --> 01:48:48,120
Speaker 2: How powerful that is these small moments of human interaction that,

2038
01:48:48,520 --> 01:48:51,200
Speaker 2: as you said before, we've all had that experience of

2039
01:48:51,240 --> 01:48:53,280
Speaker 2: having our lives racked for two weeks because of a

2040
01:48:53,280 --> 01:48:57,559
Speaker 2: weird interaction. Not putting that weird interaction into the world

2041
01:48:57,680 --> 01:49:01,040
Speaker 2: and letting people reflect on how positive that can be,

2042
01:49:01,120 --> 01:49:04,120
Speaker 2: How how much control you actually have just in the

2043
01:49:04,240 --> 01:49:06,600
Speaker 2: things that you do, in the conversations that you have.

2044
01:49:07,040 --> 01:49:10,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think like for Jeeven in episode one, you're

2045
01:49:10,439 --> 01:49:13,679
Speaker 5: making me think like the difference is like it's easy

2046
01:49:13,800 --> 01:49:16,200
Speaker 5: when you when you throw a kindness to a person

2047
01:49:16,280 --> 01:49:19,320
Speaker 5: on the internet, you make a post about a person

2048
01:49:19,360 --> 01:49:23,519
Speaker 5: in supporting them, say you like, using your cachet whatever

2049
01:49:23,560 --> 01:49:26,120
Speaker 5: you have to sort of like just give a little love.

2050
01:49:26,960 --> 01:49:30,559
Speaker 1: It doesn't cost very much, right, cost nothing almost well.

2051
01:49:30,400 --> 01:49:32,400
Speaker 5: It's you know, it takes a second. But it's also

2052
01:49:32,520 --> 01:49:35,040
Speaker 5: like you know, if it's if you're saying something that's

2053
01:49:35,080 --> 01:49:39,760
Speaker 5: gonna bring more kind of controversy, like it could cost something.

2054
01:49:39,800 --> 01:49:44,360
Speaker 5: But like for Jeeven, it takes some minutes. First of all,

2055
01:49:44,400 --> 01:49:47,200
Speaker 5: he's humiliated himself by going on stage, and he's still

2056
01:49:47,240 --> 01:49:49,679
Speaker 5: in his in himself and president enough to see her.

2057
01:49:50,200 --> 01:49:52,640
Speaker 5: But then to go talk to her, that's time. You know,

2058
01:49:52,680 --> 01:49:55,559
Speaker 5: his girlfriend's waiting for him. He gave a few minutes

2059
01:49:55,600 --> 01:49:58,719
Speaker 5: to go connect her to the wrangler. That's some time,

2060
01:49:58,760 --> 01:50:01,000
Speaker 5: and he missed his girlfriend because of it. But then

2061
01:50:01,040 --> 01:50:04,559
Speaker 5: again they circle back around and like it's so easy

2062
01:50:04,560 --> 01:50:06,520
Speaker 5: to walk away from her right there on the sidewalk.

2063
01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:10,320
Speaker 5: He literally could see your standing there, do the old

2064
01:50:10,720 --> 01:50:13,439
Speaker 5: like look left and walk away right then. But he

2065
01:50:14,000 --> 01:50:17,599
Speaker 5: keeps giving time, you know, he keeps like altering his

2066
01:50:17,720 --> 01:50:21,759
Speaker 5: course a bit. Not to mention any older man who's

2067
01:50:21,760 --> 01:50:25,760
Speaker 5: approaching a young girl. Of course Will is worried in

2068
01:50:25,800 --> 01:50:28,800
Speaker 5: some way that they're going to be accused of doing

2069
01:50:28,840 --> 01:50:33,080
Speaker 5: something untoward, but like Jeeven's not He's so not that

2070
01:50:33,080 --> 01:50:35,559
Speaker 5: that he's not even thinking about that. But I think

2071
01:50:35,600 --> 01:50:38,200
Speaker 5: it was very important in our story to have a

2072
01:50:38,280 --> 01:50:42,240
Speaker 5: dynamic between two people that felt fundamentally safe. There's you

2073
01:50:42,280 --> 01:50:46,719
Speaker 5: know and hamesh just he has that thing where where

2074
01:50:47,000 --> 01:50:51,320
Speaker 5: his kindness is sort of emanating from him energetically, and

2075
01:50:51,479 --> 01:50:53,840
Speaker 5: because we always knew like this story will not work

2076
01:50:53,920 --> 01:50:56,320
Speaker 5: unless if there is a second in the audience that

2077
01:50:56,400 --> 01:51:02,080
Speaker 5: you're worried for, like if you're thinking, Matilda Kirsten, like

2078
01:51:02,160 --> 01:51:05,400
Speaker 5: if you ever think, don't go with that man the.

2079
01:51:05,320 --> 01:51:10,559
Speaker 7: Whole show when you're out, we probably lost some viewers

2080
01:51:10,560 --> 01:51:13,840
Speaker 7: who did you know everyone at the scale there's people,

2081
01:51:13,840 --> 01:51:16,800
Speaker 7: but like largely like I want her to go with

2082
01:51:16,960 --> 01:51:19,760
Speaker 7: And it reminds me in the parking lot at the end.

2083
01:51:19,800 --> 01:51:22,479
Speaker 5: You know he's lying when he's like your parents know

2084
01:51:22,600 --> 01:51:25,320
Speaker 5: my brother Frank, But I didn't think this at the time.

2085
01:51:25,360 --> 01:51:28,720
Speaker 5: But he's not lying when he says they want you

2086
01:51:28,760 --> 01:51:32,000
Speaker 5: to come with me, because like, as as a dad,

2087
01:51:32,160 --> 01:51:37,080
Speaker 5: if if I'm out in a snowbank somewhere dying and

2088
01:51:37,320 --> 01:51:40,160
Speaker 5: don't know where my kids are. What I want and

2089
01:51:40,160 --> 01:51:42,320
Speaker 5: this is maybe where the road is great. That's the

2090
01:51:42,360 --> 01:51:44,599
Speaker 5: last image of the of the road. What I want

2091
01:51:44,880 --> 01:51:46,720
Speaker 5: more than anything is my kid to connect with a

2092
01:51:46,840 --> 01:51:49,920
Speaker 5: with a good hearted human rights. The only thing that's

2093
01:51:49,920 --> 01:51:52,479
Speaker 5: going to keep them okay. They're not going to be

2094
01:51:52,520 --> 01:51:55,080
Speaker 5: okay alone. They have to connect with a stranger. But

2095
01:51:55,160 --> 01:51:58,360
Speaker 5: which one is the And so I think, even telling

2096
01:51:58,360 --> 01:52:00,280
Speaker 5: the truth, if her parents were there, they would want

2097
01:52:00,320 --> 01:52:01,200
Speaker 5: her to go with him.

2098
01:52:01,280 --> 01:52:03,600
Speaker 2: It's now been you know, a few weeks since the

2099
01:52:03,680 --> 01:52:08,120
Speaker 2: end of the show. It's clearly been an incredible journey

2100
01:52:08,840 --> 01:52:13,479
Speaker 2: through COVID to get this done. Everyone has clearly worked

2101
01:52:13,720 --> 01:52:16,400
Speaker 2: immensely hard on it, but you can't control how people

2102
01:52:16,479 --> 01:52:20,160
Speaker 2: will respond. And then the good news is the response

2103
01:52:20,200 --> 01:52:22,920
Speaker 2: has been overwhelmingly Everyone who's seen it is like, oh

2104
01:52:23,000 --> 01:52:27,080
Speaker 2: my god, this is one of the stories of you know,

2105
01:52:27,280 --> 01:52:31,320
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, the last year of culture.

2106
01:52:31,920 --> 01:52:36,040
Speaker 1: Have you let yourself like just like feel the response.

2107
01:52:35,680 --> 01:52:38,840
Speaker 2: From people who have seen it and critical response and

2108
01:52:38,840 --> 01:52:40,880
Speaker 2: stuff like that. Have you've allowed yourself to enjoy it?

2109
01:52:41,160 --> 01:52:45,000
Speaker 5: I don't know, man, I mean, I try like I'm

2110
01:52:45,000 --> 01:52:50,360
Speaker 5: a dad with three kids, and you go away for many,

2111
01:52:50,400 --> 01:52:53,120
Speaker 5: many months to do this stuff, as does everyone who

2112
01:52:53,120 --> 01:52:56,639
Speaker 5: goes to do it, you know, so like making things

2113
01:52:56,680 --> 01:53:00,759
Speaker 5: at this scale is the most exciting thing. Like really,

2114
01:53:01,320 --> 01:53:04,599
Speaker 5: since I got done, we got done on the stages

2115
01:53:04,600 --> 01:53:09,960
Speaker 5: in November, I'm just trying to reconnect with my family.

2116
01:53:10,400 --> 01:53:15,320
Speaker 5: Thank god it's good, or like, thank god that it

2117
01:53:15,800 --> 01:53:17,680
Speaker 5: like they would be so fucking pissed at me if

2118
01:53:17,880 --> 01:53:20,360
Speaker 5: if it wasn't. Not really, I mean, that's not fair,

2119
01:53:20,400 --> 01:53:23,559
Speaker 5: but like, yeah, these it's it feels like such a risk.

2120
01:53:24,120 --> 01:53:26,680
Speaker 5: They'd be like, man, we absorbed so much and then

2121
01:53:26,760 --> 01:53:30,120
Speaker 5: now you're depressed again, you know because like the thing

2122
01:53:30,160 --> 01:53:32,559
Speaker 5: you made like didn't connect. So like it's more like

2123
01:53:32,760 --> 01:53:35,639
Speaker 5: I'm really really, I'm so happy to answer your question.

2124
01:53:36,240 --> 01:53:38,559
Speaker 5: It's sort of like so much that I don't quite

2125
01:53:38,640 --> 01:53:40,920
Speaker 5: know what to do with it right now. But it's

2126
01:53:41,120 --> 01:53:43,240
Speaker 5: I know it's a good thing, and I know that

2127
01:53:43,360 --> 01:53:47,840
Speaker 5: I'm so happy for all of our actors below the line,

2128
01:53:47,960 --> 01:53:51,519
Speaker 5: our crew, both crews, all of our Like so many

2129
01:53:51,560 --> 01:53:55,280
Speaker 5: people take risks to do these things and trust so

2130
01:53:55,439 --> 01:53:57,200
Speaker 5: much that it's going to work out in the end.

2131
01:53:57,280 --> 01:54:01,920
Speaker 5: And this this was ambitious and It's pretty rare in

2132
01:54:01,960 --> 01:54:04,160
Speaker 5: your career when you get to like I'm gonna we're

2133
01:54:04,200 --> 01:54:07,120
Speaker 5: all going to swing big on this and you get

2134
01:54:07,160 --> 01:54:09,320
Speaker 5: the fact that you get the pitch you needed and

2135
01:54:09,360 --> 01:54:12,240
Speaker 5: you connect and the people who watch it on the

2136
01:54:12,240 --> 01:54:14,759
Speaker 5: other end feel the feelings that you've been feeling inside

2137
01:54:14,760 --> 01:54:18,680
Speaker 5: your pod of people getting excited about just hoping it

2138
01:54:18,680 --> 01:54:22,000
Speaker 5: gets to them. It's really rare. So it's I feel

2139
01:54:22,080 --> 01:54:25,840
Speaker 5: sort of overwhelmed by how happy I am in a

2140
01:54:25,840 --> 01:54:28,679
Speaker 5: way where I'm being a little bit numb. I think

2141
01:54:28,760 --> 01:54:31,519
Speaker 5: it is my way of dealing with it for the moment.

2142
01:54:32,000 --> 01:54:33,920
Speaker 2: Well, I hope you can. I hope you can enjoy

2143
01:54:33,960 --> 01:54:38,960
Speaker 2: it because it really is. It's special and you guys,

2144
01:54:39,080 --> 01:54:42,560
Speaker 2: you all have really accomplished something really, really wonderful and profound.

2145
01:54:42,600 --> 01:54:44,920
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Patrick for taking the time to

2146
01:54:44,960 --> 01:54:45,440
Speaker 2: talk to us.

2147
01:54:45,520 --> 01:54:47,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, man, this has been a great conversation. Thanks for

2148
01:54:47,920 --> 01:54:48,360
Speaker 5: having me on.

2149
01:54:48,800 --> 01:54:51,240
Speaker 1: Thanks to Patrick for joining us up next nerd Out.

2150
01:54:59,160 --> 01:55:01,800
Speaker 2: In this week's out, a recurring segment where you tell

2151
01:55:01,840 --> 01:55:02,880
Speaker 2: us what you love and why.

2152
01:55:03,000 --> 01:55:05,440
Speaker 1: TJ pitches us thee've.

2153
01:55:05,200 --> 01:55:08,760
Speaker 2: Of Mike Flanagan, particularly the mini series Midnight Mass.

2154
01:55:08,760 --> 01:55:11,360
Speaker 8: Hey Jason, the next Wavision listeners. My name is TJ.

2155
01:55:11,440 --> 01:55:14,000
Speaker 8: Heiser from Cincinnati, and I'm here today to talk about

2156
01:55:14,000 --> 01:55:16,840
Speaker 8: the wonders of the filmography of Mike Flanagan, which I

2157
01:55:16,880 --> 01:55:19,040
Speaker 8: have taken upon myself to call spookys in the same

2158
01:55:19,120 --> 01:55:22,720
Speaker 8: vein as Spike Lee's joints. Anyways, Mike Flanagan has been

2159
01:55:22,800 --> 01:55:25,000
Speaker 8: writing and directing film and TV for a little over

2160
01:55:25,040 --> 01:55:28,840
Speaker 8: a decade now, encompassing seven films and three Netflix mini series.

2161
01:55:29,600 --> 01:55:31,600
Speaker 8: Our running line through much of these stories, and what

2162
01:55:31,680 --> 01:55:34,360
Speaker 8: I think make Flannagan so special is the power of

2163
01:55:34,400 --> 01:55:37,680
Speaker 8: grief as an emotional force. So many of Flannagan's stories

2164
01:55:37,720 --> 01:55:40,240
Speaker 8: are about the way that grief impacts us and is

2165
01:55:40,280 --> 01:55:43,520
Speaker 8: able to creep into our lives in horrifying ways. Connected

2166
01:55:43,520 --> 01:55:45,960
Speaker 8: to this is the idea that Flannagan focuses Spookyes, I'm

2167
01:55:46,000 --> 01:55:47,600
Speaker 8: more than just the things that go bump in the

2168
01:55:47,720 --> 01:55:51,160
Speaker 8: night horror. Like any good story, that it's best when

2169
01:55:51,160 --> 01:55:53,080
Speaker 8: there is some kind of deep emotion attached to it,

2170
01:55:53,240 --> 01:55:55,400
Speaker 8: and that is where Flanagan's work really begins to stand

2171
01:55:55,440 --> 01:55:57,880
Speaker 8: out to me. Although I think there's a lot to

2172
01:55:57,880 --> 01:56:00,320
Speaker 8: talk about, including how he adapted to steel and kin

2173
01:56:00,400 --> 01:56:04,280
Speaker 8: books previously thought unadaptable for varying reasons, or his adaptation

2174
01:56:04,320 --> 01:56:06,400
Speaker 8: of The Haunting of Hillhouse, which is the first time

2175
01:56:06,440 --> 01:56:08,960
Speaker 8: I really understood I was watching a spooky What I'm

2176
01:56:08,960 --> 01:56:11,840
Speaker 8: going to focus today about is his most recent work,

2177
01:56:11,920 --> 01:56:15,920
Speaker 8: last year's Midnight Mass. Y'all Midnight Mass is so good.

2178
01:56:16,200 --> 01:56:19,880
Speaker 8: It's just so good. It's this really beautiful and sad

2179
01:56:19,920 --> 01:56:22,600
Speaker 8: look at the way people can corrupt religion, whether they

2180
01:56:22,640 --> 01:56:24,680
Speaker 8: are doing it out of a heinous and false sense

2181
01:56:24,720 --> 01:56:27,360
Speaker 8: of superiority, or even a way where they think what

2182
01:56:27,400 --> 01:56:29,720
Speaker 8: they are doing is truly for the betterment of their community.

2183
01:56:30,360 --> 01:56:32,560
Speaker 8: You can tell this is a really personal work for Flannagan.

2184
01:56:32,760 --> 01:56:34,800
Speaker 8: He wrote a piece about it, but from his struggles

2185
01:56:34,840 --> 01:56:38,040
Speaker 8: with alcoholism to his struggles with religion, and the conflict

2186
01:56:38,040 --> 01:56:40,480
Speaker 8: from what he would like to believe awaits us after

2187
01:56:40,520 --> 01:56:42,880
Speaker 8: death to what he truly believes awaits us after death,

2188
01:56:43,320 --> 01:56:46,440
Speaker 8: every moment of this theory feels so deeply personal to him,

2189
01:56:46,840 --> 01:56:50,120
Speaker 8: and it broke me in innumerable ways. As someone who

2190
01:56:50,120 --> 01:56:52,840
Speaker 8: has issues with organized religion but still has faith in

2191
01:56:52,920 --> 01:56:55,600
Speaker 8: the capital g God, it was so refreshing to see

2192
01:56:55,640 --> 01:56:57,880
Speaker 8: a media that engages with this in a meaningful way.

2193
01:56:58,800 --> 01:57:00,760
Speaker 8: Also as the husband of someone who has suffered two

2194
01:57:00,800 --> 01:57:05,120
Speaker 8: pregnancy losses. It features this gorgeous monologue from frequent Flannagan

2195
01:57:05,200 --> 01:57:09,040
Speaker 8: collaborator Splash's wife Kate Siegel, as she describes what she

2196
01:57:09,120 --> 01:57:11,440
Speaker 8: believes happened to the child she lost through a sudden

2197
01:57:11,440 --> 01:57:14,720
Speaker 8: and chocking pregnancy loss. The speech really hit home for me.

2198
01:57:15,160 --> 01:57:17,440
Speaker 8: A few weeks prior to the show's premiere, my wife

2199
01:57:17,440 --> 01:57:20,080
Speaker 8: and I learned that we were expecting again, having lost

2200
01:57:20,080 --> 01:57:23,760
Speaker 8: a second trimester pregnancy earlier in the year. Prior to

2201
01:57:23,800 --> 01:57:26,680
Speaker 8: the show, I struggled to find excitement with the news. Obviously,

2202
01:57:26,680 --> 01:57:28,640
Speaker 8: I was excited, but I was also filled with this

2203
01:57:29,200 --> 01:57:32,360
Speaker 8: tremendous sense of dread, which I'd like to think made

2204
01:57:32,360 --> 01:57:36,440
Speaker 8: some sense considering a recent history. However, upon watching this speech,

2205
01:57:36,480 --> 01:57:38,440
Speaker 8: I began to find a sense of peace from this

2206
01:57:38,520 --> 01:57:42,320
Speaker 8: new pregnancy. Now we are midway past midway point on

2207
01:57:42,400 --> 01:57:45,280
Speaker 8: this pregnancy, and all things are pointing towards good news,

2208
01:57:45,320 --> 01:57:48,240
Speaker 8: and I'm thankful for that, but also thankful for Flannagan's

2209
01:57:48,240 --> 01:57:50,680
Speaker 8: speech and Seagull's delivery of it, for giving me a

2210
01:57:50,720 --> 01:57:54,120
Speaker 8: sense of peace I never anticipated with this pregnancy. As

2211
01:57:54,120 --> 01:57:57,120
Speaker 8: for what's next, we know Flannagan's next spookies include a

2212
01:57:57,120 --> 01:58:00,480
Speaker 8: series adaptation of course Rapher Pikes The Midnight Life, which

2213
01:58:00,480 --> 01:58:03,080
Speaker 8: I anticipate will be out this year, and then he's

2214
01:58:03,120 --> 01:58:05,760
Speaker 8: doing The Fall of the House of Usher based on

2215
01:58:05,800 --> 01:58:07,920
Speaker 8: that and other stories by Edgar Allen Poe, which I

2216
01:58:07,960 --> 01:58:10,920
Speaker 8: believe just went under production. But yeah, you should definitely

2217
01:58:10,920 --> 01:58:13,880
Speaker 8: watch Midnightmasks, which is on Netflix, or really anything he's done,

2218
01:58:14,040 --> 01:58:15,960
Speaker 8: all of which is pretty easy to find on streaming.

2219
01:58:16,360 --> 01:58:18,120
Speaker 8: And then when you've done that, you should join me

2220
01:58:18,160 --> 01:58:19,920
Speaker 8: on Twitter and try to convince him that he should

2221
01:58:19,960 --> 01:58:21,680
Speaker 8: call all of his stuff spookies.

2222
01:58:22,240 --> 01:58:24,560
Speaker 1: Thanks Thanks TJ for submitting.

2223
01:58:24,560 --> 01:58:26,400
Speaker 2: If you want to be featured, send your nerd out

2224
01:58:26,440 --> 01:58:28,560
Speaker 2: pitch to x Ray at crooked dot com. Instructions in

2225
01:58:28,600 --> 01:58:39,600
Speaker 2: the show notes up next to the Endgame. We are

2226
01:58:39,640 --> 01:58:42,240
Speaker 2: in the endgame now, and today Rosie and I will

2227
01:58:42,240 --> 01:58:44,320
Speaker 2: ponder what is our station eleven?

2228
01:58:44,360 --> 01:58:48,800
Speaker 1: What is the piece of culture, A piece of art, a.

2229
01:58:48,800 --> 01:58:54,840
Speaker 2: Comic book, a song that fundamentally shaped our view of

2230
01:58:54,880 --> 01:58:58,920
Speaker 2: the world. This is a really fun one. Gosh, Rosie,

2231
01:58:58,960 --> 01:58:59,760
Speaker 2: do you want to go first?

2232
01:59:00,080 --> 01:59:03,040
Speaker 3: I'll go first because I have one that is directly

2233
01:59:03,040 --> 01:59:05,720
Speaker 3: connected to what we were just talking about, So awesome

2234
01:59:05,960 --> 01:59:09,080
Speaker 3: for me. One of the things that was like very

2235
01:59:09,440 --> 01:59:12,600
Speaker 3: foundational in my fandom and my understanding of Star Wars

2236
01:59:13,280 --> 01:59:17,440
Speaker 3: was the Young Jedi Knights books by Kevin J. Anderson

2237
01:59:18,120 --> 01:59:24,480
Speaker 3: and Rebecca Moest, and they are essentially a huge influence

2238
01:59:24,560 --> 01:59:28,800
Speaker 3: on what the sequel trilogy and now Bobafair is doing

2239
01:59:29,080 --> 01:59:32,440
Speaker 3: with the Jedi Academy. And when I was a kid,

2240
01:59:32,680 --> 01:59:34,720
Speaker 3: they were already out there. There's a huge amount of

2241
01:59:34,760 --> 01:59:38,480
Speaker 3: series of them, and they focus on the training of

2242
01:59:38,760 --> 01:59:43,240
Speaker 3: Hannon Layer's kids, Jason and Jaina, being trained by their

2243
01:59:43,360 --> 01:59:46,560
Speaker 3: uncle Luke at the Jedi Academy. And as a kid,

2244
01:59:46,760 --> 01:59:48,839
Speaker 3: that was the Star Wars that I thought was canon,

2245
01:59:49,480 --> 01:59:52,360
Speaker 3: you know, that was the thing I loved Star Wars.

2246
01:59:52,400 --> 01:59:55,240
Speaker 3: My mom was had a deep connection to them, like

2247
01:59:55,640 --> 01:59:58,160
Speaker 3: especially you know, Ewoks in Return of the Jedi and stuff,

2248
01:59:58,160 --> 02:00:00,360
Speaker 3: so I knew it, and like when the You Done

2249
02:00:00,400 --> 02:00:02,760
Speaker 3: Anniversary collection came out we saw at the cinema, but like,

2250
02:00:03,640 --> 02:00:05,480
Speaker 3: those books were like such a big deal to me,

2251
02:00:05,520 --> 02:00:08,200
Speaker 3: and we would go to car boot sales second hand bookshops,

2252
02:00:08,320 --> 02:00:11,280
Speaker 3: and there was just something about them that I loved

2253
02:00:11,320 --> 02:00:13,160
Speaker 3: so much. I have a lot of them now I've

2254
02:00:13,160 --> 02:00:15,480
Speaker 3: gone back to recollect them and it's kind of really

2255
02:00:15,480 --> 02:00:19,200
Speaker 3: interesting because the Station eleven of it all, where it's

2256
02:00:19,240 --> 02:00:23,040
Speaker 3: this one thing that goes through your life. When I

2257
02:00:23,080 --> 02:00:26,320
Speaker 3: moved to la and I became a journalist, and I

2258
02:00:26,360 --> 02:00:32,800
Speaker 3: started off writing about comics, surprising everyone. But when Star

2259
02:00:32,840 --> 02:00:36,880
Speaker 3: Wars stuff started happening and the Force awakens and you know,

2260
02:00:36,920 --> 02:00:40,080
Speaker 3: the Last Jedi, suddenly I was like, oh, this is

2261
02:00:40,120 --> 02:00:42,320
Speaker 3: a story about hann and Leigher having a kid, you know,

2262
02:00:42,360 --> 02:00:44,800
Speaker 3: And I was able to bring this love of the

2263
02:00:44,840 --> 02:00:47,440
Speaker 3: young Jedi Knights and also the Jedi Academy trilogy also

2264
02:00:47,480 --> 02:00:50,080
Speaker 3: by Kevin Anderson. That became something I got to write

2265
02:00:50,080 --> 02:00:52,360
Speaker 3: about and I got to tell stories about, and I

2266
02:00:52,360 --> 02:00:54,600
Speaker 3: got to explain to people like who's Jason and Jana

2267
02:00:54,640 --> 02:00:57,520
Speaker 3: Solar Solo, Like how could these things come in? What

2268
02:00:57,600 --> 02:00:59,960
Speaker 3: was the influence of that on Kylo and you know,

2269
02:01:00,080 --> 02:01:03,240
Speaker 3: and potentially ray like so that in a way it

2270
02:01:03,280 --> 02:01:06,040
Speaker 3: was like something that I really loved. I still enjoy revisiting,

2271
02:01:06,560 --> 02:01:09,000
Speaker 3: but that also helped shape like the early part of

2272
02:01:09,000 --> 02:01:11,760
Speaker 3: my career. And I think and and it's so nice

2273
02:01:11,800 --> 02:01:15,000
Speaker 3: like to see Luke building the Jedi Academy. I always

2274
02:01:15,080 --> 02:01:17,800
Speaker 3: just go back to those Legends books and kind of

2275
02:01:17,800 --> 02:01:20,000
Speaker 3: think about, yeah, they were for kids, they were for

2276
02:01:20,040 --> 02:01:22,440
Speaker 3: younger readers, but they're really fun and there's so much

2277
02:01:22,480 --> 02:01:25,960
Speaker 3: great stuff in there that's clearly moved and inspired the

2278
02:01:26,000 --> 02:01:27,680
Speaker 3: people who are making Star Wars today.

2279
02:01:27,960 --> 02:01:30,640
Speaker 2: Wow, that's that is a really cool one. Gosh, there's

2280
02:01:30,680 --> 02:01:33,600
Speaker 2: so many of these. I'm sure like that you feel

2281
02:01:33,600 --> 02:01:35,880
Speaker 2: the same way I. You know, I've told this story before,

2282
02:01:35,920 --> 02:01:39,560
Speaker 2: but my formative Star Wars memory was after seeing the

2283
02:01:39,600 --> 02:01:43,880
Speaker 2: Empire strikes back on VHS. We had a snowstorm, like

2284
02:01:43,880 --> 02:01:46,480
Speaker 2: a blizzard. I was like seven. I don't know how

2285
02:01:46,600 --> 02:01:49,040
Speaker 2: it was, I was very young, but I remember spending

2286
02:01:49,200 --> 02:01:52,680
Speaker 2: hours hours on the lawn, crawling across the lawn and

2287
02:01:52,760 --> 02:01:57,240
Speaker 2: the snow, doing the like, like reaching out to the

2288
02:01:57,240 --> 02:02:00,160
Speaker 2: point where the neighbors were like calling the house, was

2289
02:02:00,200 --> 02:02:01,680
Speaker 2: like what is this kid doing? And I was like,

2290
02:02:01,760 --> 02:02:04,000
Speaker 2: I'm doing Star Wars. You don't get it, like I'm

2291
02:02:04,080 --> 02:02:07,600
Speaker 2: doing Star Wars. Gosh for me, I am gonna like

2292
02:02:07,640 --> 02:02:12,400
Speaker 2: there's a ton of comic book things, you know, X

2293
02:02:12,440 --> 02:02:14,840
Speaker 2: Men two ten to come on make our day, like

2294
02:02:15,000 --> 02:02:19,440
Speaker 2: cover I remember being something that grabbed my attention. But

2295
02:02:19,480 --> 02:02:23,720
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with Gosh, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna

2296
02:02:23,720 --> 02:02:26,480
Speaker 2: go I'm Gonna take a left turn. Bob Dylan's poem

2297
02:02:26,600 --> 02:02:30,680
Speaker 2: Last Thoughts on Woody Guthrie, which he wrote and then recited,

2298
02:02:31,040 --> 02:02:33,560
Speaker 2: is going to tribute to the to the folk musician

2299
02:02:33,560 --> 02:02:35,680
Speaker 2: Woody Guthrie, who at that time was like dying from

2300
02:02:35,800 --> 02:02:36,800
Speaker 2: Huntingdon's disease.

2301
02:02:37,480 --> 02:02:39,720
Speaker 1: Is lyrically I was.

2302
02:02:40,000 --> 02:02:42,400
Speaker 2: So this was at the point in my life when

2303
02:02:42,400 --> 02:02:44,040
Speaker 2: I was trying to be a musician. So I was

2304
02:02:44,040 --> 02:02:47,200
Speaker 2: in music school and we had played a gig somewhere

2305
02:02:47,240 --> 02:02:49,720
Speaker 2: like in Vermont with this band that I was kind

2306
02:02:49,720 --> 02:02:51,960
Speaker 2: of in and actually we're supposed to play like a

2307
02:02:52,000 --> 02:02:55,520
Speaker 2: spring break event like at Castleton State College. So we

2308
02:02:55,600 --> 02:02:57,600
Speaker 2: played the event, which was outside with a bunch of

2309
02:02:57,600 --> 02:02:59,240
Speaker 2: other bands. That was fine, and we got invited to

2310
02:02:59,280 --> 02:03:02,080
Speaker 2: like play this house party. We played the house party,

2311
02:03:02,120 --> 02:03:06,440
Speaker 2: and it was like like this incredible, like cathartic, one

2312
02:03:06,480 --> 02:03:11,080
Speaker 2: of those musical performances where you feel like you're not playing,

2313
02:03:11,200 --> 02:03:14,040
Speaker 2: you're just kind of like broadcasting music that you're like

2314
02:03:14,160 --> 02:03:17,080
Speaker 2: pulling out of the air, and the audience is completely

2315
02:03:17,160 --> 02:03:19,480
Speaker 2: on the same wavelength as musicians, and it all feels like

2316
02:03:19,520 --> 02:03:24,640
Speaker 2: this very force like interconnected thing. And then from there after,

2317
02:03:24,680 --> 02:03:26,960
Speaker 2: so we played the thing hangout meeting all these people,

2318
02:03:27,000 --> 02:03:30,480
Speaker 2: it's really fun. We go to buy alcohol and because

2319
02:03:30,480 --> 02:03:32,440
Speaker 2: it's after midnight, like you could not where it was

2320
02:03:32,440 --> 02:03:35,160
Speaker 2: the weekend or something, you can't buy alcohol, like you know,

2321
02:03:35,160 --> 02:03:37,480
Speaker 2: it's all the Puritan laws over in New England, so

2322
02:03:37,680 --> 02:03:41,480
Speaker 2: we had to drive across state lines to New York

2323
02:03:41,760 --> 02:03:45,520
Speaker 2: State to buy alcohol. So in the van at the time,

2324
02:03:45,560 --> 02:03:48,520
Speaker 2: as we're driving over to do that, whoever these people

2325
02:03:48,560 --> 02:03:51,960
Speaker 2: I was with put on last thoughts by what they had,

2326
02:03:52,000 --> 02:03:54,160
Speaker 2: like some Bob dylem miics, and this poem was like

2327
02:03:54,200 --> 02:03:56,280
Speaker 2: one of the things. And I remember just sitting there

2328
02:03:56,400 --> 02:04:00,160
Speaker 2: like hearing the words like as they go by, and

2329
02:04:00,200 --> 02:04:03,560
Speaker 2: as it like started picking up and just like go

2330
02:04:03,640 --> 02:04:06,160
Speaker 2: and you know, read the lyrics. I think the thing

2331
02:04:06,200 --> 02:04:09,160
Speaker 2: that really affected me about it was this idea that

2332
02:04:09,280 --> 02:04:12,640
Speaker 2: like he says, uh something to the fact that the

2333
02:04:12,960 --> 02:04:15,919
Speaker 2: spot that you're standing, the space you're sitting, that's yours.

2334
02:04:16,080 --> 02:04:19,560
Speaker 2: Wherever you are, Like whatever thoughts you're having, you feel

2335
02:04:19,600 --> 02:04:21,920
Speaker 2: like you're lost in the world, you don't really have

2336
02:04:22,000 --> 02:04:27,720
Speaker 2: something to say, but that feeling in and of itself

2337
02:04:27,840 --> 02:04:30,240
Speaker 2: is universal and is yours and that and if you

2338
02:04:30,280 --> 02:04:32,760
Speaker 2: can find your way past that fear, like there's a

2339
02:04:32,840 --> 02:04:35,200
Speaker 2: there's a level of expression that that only you have,

2340
02:04:35,240 --> 02:04:36,880
Speaker 2: because only you stand in the place that you're saying.

2341
02:04:36,880 --> 02:04:40,360
Speaker 2: I'm paraphrasing what this poem says, but we were driving

2342
02:04:40,480 --> 02:04:42,320
Speaker 2: and it's and I'm listening to it, and I was

2343
02:04:42,400 --> 02:04:45,160
Speaker 2: just like wanted everybody to shut up so I could

2344
02:04:45,160 --> 02:04:47,400
Speaker 2: hear it, like I remember it, just being like knocked

2345
02:04:47,400 --> 02:04:51,120
Speaker 2: out about it. And then sometime later another Bob Dylan

2346
02:04:51,160 --> 02:04:55,080
Speaker 2: thing happened, which is this kind of like group house

2347
02:04:55,200 --> 02:04:58,240
Speaker 2: where all these people were living, had like this foam

2348
02:04:58,240 --> 02:05:01,000
Speaker 2: party or something, and everybod I got thrown out and

2349
02:05:01,040 --> 02:05:03,120
Speaker 2: we're like, you know, all their stuff got thrown out

2350
02:05:03,120 --> 02:05:05,240
Speaker 2: because the fire department came. It was like this is

2351
02:05:05,760 --> 02:05:08,520
Speaker 2: illegal for a million different reasons, and this is like

2352
02:05:08,600 --> 02:05:10,880
Speaker 2: the fifth time that the fire alarm has gone off,

2353
02:05:10,920 --> 02:05:11,960
Speaker 2: So everybody's got to get out.

2354
02:05:11,960 --> 02:05:14,520
Speaker 1: We're shutting down this entire house. Everybody's out of the street.

2355
02:05:15,480 --> 02:05:17,480
Speaker 2: This is in Providence, Rhode Island, so it's all these

2356
02:05:17,520 --> 02:05:18,680
Speaker 2: brown university students.

2357
02:05:18,680 --> 02:05:21,160
Speaker 1: They're all rich, but everybody was like why.

2358
02:05:21,240 --> 02:05:23,760
Speaker 2: It was like you know, at that age when you're young,

2359
02:05:23,800 --> 02:05:25,760
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, this is the worst thing that's ever happened.

2360
02:05:25,760 --> 02:05:26,400
Speaker 1: This is terrible.

2361
02:05:26,880 --> 02:05:30,760
Speaker 2: And so we were just sitting out like in front

2362
02:05:30,760 --> 02:05:32,480
Speaker 2: of the house, and I was talking to like these

2363
02:05:32,480 --> 02:05:34,480
Speaker 2: people that I was friends with that had been kicked out,

2364
02:05:34,920 --> 02:05:36,080
Speaker 2: and then this guy came up.

2365
02:05:36,120 --> 02:05:38,120
Speaker 1: He was a street musician that we all kind of knew.

2366
02:05:38,520 --> 02:05:42,400
Speaker 2: And he was like looking at all of this and

2367
02:05:43,000 --> 02:05:46,400
Speaker 2: he just starts like reciting the lyrics to Bob Dylan's

2368
02:05:46,440 --> 02:05:48,200
Speaker 2: like a rolling Stone Once upon a time, You dress

2369
02:05:48,240 --> 02:05:50,000
Speaker 2: so fine through the bums of dime in your prime.

2370
02:05:50,400 --> 02:05:52,280
Speaker 2: And it was like, all of a sudden, you know,

2371
02:05:52,360 --> 02:05:55,200
Speaker 2: like you've gone to the finest schools, Miss Slonely, but

2372
02:05:55,240 --> 02:05:56,520
Speaker 2: you only used to get juiced in it.

2373
02:05:56,600 --> 02:05:58,600
Speaker 1: Nobody's ever taught you had to live on the street.

2374
02:05:59,400 --> 02:06:01,400
Speaker 2: And all of a sudden, it was like, oh shit,

2375
02:06:01,800 --> 02:06:04,680
Speaker 2: this guy just unlocked a level of meaning in a

2376
02:06:04,720 --> 02:06:07,600
Speaker 2: piece of writing that I'm completely familiar with that is

2377
02:06:07,680 --> 02:06:11,600
Speaker 2: like fucking devastating. And I think all of that is

2378
02:06:11,920 --> 02:06:16,320
Speaker 2: that feeling that Station eleven also conveyed of, like, oh,

2379
02:06:16,400 --> 02:06:19,160
Speaker 2: I just found another level of meaning in this thing

2380
02:06:19,200 --> 02:06:21,720
Speaker 2: that I've read or watched or listened to a million times.

2381
02:06:22,480 --> 02:06:25,720
Speaker 2: Is an incredible feeling that that show is able to

2382
02:06:25,760 --> 02:06:28,640
Speaker 2: capture and so there's I cheated a little bit, but

2383
02:06:28,680 --> 02:06:29,480
Speaker 2: those are two for it.

2384
02:06:30,640 --> 02:06:31,520
Speaker 1: That's it for the endgame.

2385
02:06:31,600 --> 02:06:35,160
Speaker 2: Let us know you think one if winning could be

2386
02:06:35,240 --> 02:06:37,480
Speaker 2: said to be a part of an event in which

2387
02:06:37,520 --> 02:06:39,320
Speaker 2: we shared a formative moments.

2388
02:06:39,680 --> 02:06:40,560
Speaker 1: Let us know what you think.

2389
02:06:40,640 --> 02:06:42,800
Speaker 2: Let us know if you have any kind of similar

2390
02:06:42,800 --> 02:06:45,520
Speaker 2: thoughts or feelings. Hit us at hashtag XRBN game to

2391
02:06:45,520 --> 02:06:49,960
Speaker 2: give us your pick. A big thank you to Patrick

2392
02:06:50,040 --> 02:06:52,200
Speaker 2: Somerville and the great Rosie Knight for joining us on

2393
02:06:52,320 --> 02:06:53,000
Speaker 2: x ray Vision.

2394
02:06:53,200 --> 02:06:56,200
Speaker 1: Rosie plugs, plugs, plugs, plug everything.

2395
02:06:56,440 --> 02:07:00,920
Speaker 3: You can find me on Instagram Rosie mocks. Actually, this year,

2396
02:07:00,960 --> 02:07:04,040
Speaker 3: twenty twenty two is the first year I've properly been

2397
02:07:04,120 --> 02:07:09,360
Speaker 3: keeping a letterbox diary, and it is brutally honest. So

2398
02:07:09,440 --> 02:07:12,160
Speaker 3: if you wanna think I'm really really cool one day

2399
02:07:12,200 --> 02:07:15,320
Speaker 3: and then lose absolute respect to me the next, follow

2400
02:07:15,400 --> 02:07:18,440
Speaker 3: my letterbox. It includes everything from like I think last

2401
02:07:18,480 --> 02:07:20,880
Speaker 3: week it was like I watch a lot of movies.

2402
02:07:20,920 --> 02:07:23,720
Speaker 3: I think I've watched like fifty this year already, but like, wow,

2403
02:07:23,880 --> 02:07:25,600
Speaker 3: one of the I think last week I had a

2404
02:07:25,600 --> 02:07:27,720
Speaker 3: week where it was like Thief by Michael Man, and

2405
02:07:27,720 --> 02:07:30,280
Speaker 3: then like a Hallmark movie with like Lacy Schabert, So

2406
02:07:30,440 --> 02:07:32,560
Speaker 3: I am. I put everything I watch on there, so

2407
02:07:32,640 --> 02:07:35,400
Speaker 3: if you want to have fun following on there you can.

2408
02:07:36,240 --> 02:07:40,400
Speaker 3: And yeah, just my usual articles. The Batman is coming up,

2409
02:07:40,800 --> 02:07:43,600
Speaker 3: so there's gonna be a love gonna be a lot

2410
02:07:43,600 --> 02:07:48,240
Speaker 3: of the Batman coverage coming from me, as well as

2411
02:07:48,240 --> 02:07:50,440
Speaker 3: all kinds of other cool stuff. It's there's been the

2412
02:07:50,480 --> 02:07:53,480
Speaker 3: little lull in the MCU has allowed me to write

2413
02:07:53,480 --> 02:07:55,240
Speaker 3: about a lot of cool books and comics and stuff

2414
02:07:55,280 --> 02:07:57,320
Speaker 3: like that. So if you're interested in seeing some non

2415
02:07:57,800 --> 02:07:59,800
Speaker 3: Big two stuff, you can check out my writing on that.

2416
02:08:00,560 --> 02:08:01,960
Speaker 3: So yeah, come and find me.

2417
02:08:04,600 --> 02:08:05,040
Speaker 1: Well, folks.

2418
02:08:05,080 --> 02:08:07,520
Speaker 2: If you want to learn more about we exploring each episode,

2419
02:08:07,600 --> 02:08:09,760
Speaker 2: check out our listeners guide to all things ext Revision

2420
02:08:09,760 --> 02:08:12,440
Speaker 2: in the show notes and on our website. Catch the

2421
02:08:12,480 --> 02:08:16,000
Speaker 2: next episode on February eleventh, and again, send us your

2422
02:08:16,040 --> 02:08:19,320
Speaker 2: nerd out submissions to x Ray at cricket dot com.

2423
02:08:19,520 --> 02:08:22,160
Speaker 2: And please do not forget hit us with the five

2424
02:08:22,200 --> 02:08:25,160
Speaker 2: star ratings. Folks, wherever you get your podcast, whatever platform

2425
02:08:25,200 --> 02:08:26,360
Speaker 2: it is, we love.

2426
02:08:26,200 --> 02:08:26,880
Speaker 1: To hear from you.

2427
02:08:27,480 --> 02:08:30,840
Speaker 2: Please please do that. It's fantastic. Another thing I want

2428
02:08:30,840 --> 02:08:33,879
Speaker 2: to say about the people who DM and or email

2429
02:08:33,960 --> 02:08:36,520
Speaker 2: or tweeted us, please cover this. When are you gonna

2430
02:08:36,480 --> 02:08:38,240
Speaker 2: talk about Star Trek? When are you gonna talk about ourcane?

2431
02:08:38,280 --> 02:08:41,320
Speaker 2: Which we're gonna talk about our promise one. If we

2432
02:08:41,360 --> 02:08:44,400
Speaker 2: don't respond to you, just keep bothering us. I'm speaking

2433
02:08:44,440 --> 02:08:47,400
Speaker 2: for the entire team. We love to hear from you.

2434
02:08:48,240 --> 02:08:50,160
Speaker 1: If we don't, we will get to it.

2435
02:08:50,240 --> 02:08:52,080
Speaker 2: And if you want to make sure we do, just

2436
02:08:52,160 --> 02:08:54,280
Speaker 2: keep bothering us. Keep bothering us. It's great.

2437
02:08:54,600 --> 02:08:57,480
Speaker 1: I love I love it. I love hearing from you.

2438
02:08:57,560 --> 02:09:00,760
Speaker 2: So just keep keep bothering us about whatever it is

2439
02:09:00,800 --> 02:09:04,640
Speaker 2: that you'd like to hear us cover. X ray Vision

2440
02:09:04,960 --> 02:09:06,720
Speaker 2: is a Crooked Media production of the show is produced

2441
02:09:06,720 --> 02:09:09,080
Speaker 2: by Chris Lord and Saul Rubin. The show is executive

2442
02:09:09,160 --> 02:09:12,720
Speaker 2: produced by myself and Sandy Gerard. Caroline Rustin and Carlton

2443
02:09:12,720 --> 02:09:15,400
Speaker 2: Gillespie are our consulting producers, and our editing and sound

2444
02:09:15,440 --> 02:09:19,720
Speaker 2: design is by Vasillis Protopolis. Thanks to Brian Vasquez for

2445
02:09:19,840 --> 02:09:21,680
Speaker 2: the theme music, See You Next Time.

2446
02:09:26,360 --> 02:09:29,760
Speaker 4: In the nineteen seventies, a young group of violent revolutionaries

2447
02:09:29,840 --> 02:09:33,600
Speaker 4: joined forces to create the Weather Underground Organization, a group

2448
02:09:33,600 --> 02:09:37,160
Speaker 4: of radicals who brawled with police officers and bombed the Pentagon,

2449
02:09:37,600 --> 02:09:40,200
Speaker 4: all in the name of ending racism.

2450
02:09:40,440 --> 02:09:40,640
Speaker 1: Hi.

2451
02:09:40,960 --> 02:09:44,840
Speaker 4: I'm Zaid Airsdorn, host of Crooked Media's new podcast, Mother

2452
02:09:44,880 --> 02:09:48,520
Speaker 4: Country Radicals, which dives into the true story of how

2453
02:09:48,560 --> 02:09:51,560
Speaker 4: my parents and their friends went from peace loving activists

2454
02:09:51,600 --> 02:09:55,600
Speaker 4: to topping the fbis most wanted This new episodes of

2455
02:09:55,640 --> 02:09:59,400
Speaker 4: Mother Country Radicals are out every Thursday. Listen and subscribe

2456
02:09:59,440 --> 02:10:00,880
Speaker 4: wherever you get podcasts.