Speaker 1: Conspiracy realist. We are following up in our series on
Speaker 1: famous lost tombs. This is part two. Check out part
Speaker 1: one and then help us figure out where Djangis Khan
Speaker 1: was buried. If you know, just tell us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hear the X marks the spot or some
Speaker 2: such nonsense.
Speaker 1: Like the river shifted.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good to say. Let's go find these tombs, guys. Yeah.
Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is
Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 3: learn the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 4: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,
Speaker 4: my name is no.
Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined with our returning
Speaker 1: the fourth member of the fourth member of our podcast Enterprise. Folks.
Speaker 1: Give a hand for super producer Paul Deckant, who has
Speaker 1: just come back to Atlanta from some adventures abroad which
Speaker 1: I don't know how much we want to disclose on air.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he's he's saying, stop stop stop talking, okay about that?
Speaker 2: Making that sorry across the throat.
Speaker 1: Gesture hint taken. Most importantly, you are you. You are
Speaker 1: here that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 1: Hold everything, hold the phone, stop the presses, this is
Speaker 1: a part two episode, which means that if you want
Speaker 1: to get the whole bang for your creepy buck today,
Speaker 1: you'll want to listen to Famous Tombs Part one. Then
Speaker 1: Famous Tombs Part one has some pretty pretty crazy insights.
Speaker 1: So while you're there, you may also want to listen
Speaker 1: to our Jengus Khan episode which inspired all of this.
Speaker 1: I have one quick, Paul, can we get like a
Speaker 1: breaking news sound cue? Perfect? One quick clarification we want
Speaker 1: to make when we did our when did our episode
Speaker 1: on the Ants cult in the Czech Republic, we had
Speaker 1: some it was called the Curum case. Yes, that's correct,
Speaker 1: thank you. We had some confusion. We didn't explicitly say it.
Speaker 1: Both of the boys in that case did in fact survive,
Speaker 1: and I believe it was me at some point who
Speaker 1: said I believe one of them died. It's a translation
Speaker 1: error on my part, So to be clear, there is
Speaker 1: a little bit of a happy ending for those kids.
Speaker 1: They did. They did make it this vibe and into adulthood.
Speaker 1: They've got facebooks, the whole nine.
Speaker 4: Yeah, just in case you survived that episode, because it
Speaker 4: is a it is a gnarly one, but yeah, thank you, Ben.
Speaker 4: That's important to know.
Speaker 1: Oh thanks to everyone on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook
Speaker 1: and so on who wrote to us to ask for
Speaker 1: clarification or point that out without further ado. Assuming you've
Speaker 1: heard Famous Tombs Part one, here's where it gets crazy.
Speaker 2: We're starting right with getting crazy at the top.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, this was originally supposed to be just one episode.
Speaker 2: Now it's true.
Speaker 4: Let's break it down. There are a lot of people
Speaker 4: that died, a lot more people than are currently living,
Speaker 4: and well, not that have ever lived, because obviously if
Speaker 4: you died, you lived in spoiler alert.
Speaker 2: Everyone who's alive right now gonna die.
Speaker 1: Possibly probably, but not definitely.
Speaker 4: And also it's hard to bury everybody. Not everybody was buried,
Speaker 4: so only some of the most important people are gonna
Speaker 4: have tombs that remain from hundreds of years ago. That's
Speaker 4: where we find ourselves.
Speaker 1: And even those tombs didn't fare as well as their
Speaker 1: creators had hoped. Right look upon my works, you mighty,
Speaker 1: and so on. So it's strange. There is one surprise
Speaker 1: that I found that maybe we can save till the end.
Speaker 1: But let's let's start with Let's start with lost grave sites.
Speaker 1: Right was that where that was where we were earlier, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think we had a whole category to start fresh with.
Speaker 1: So Wolfgang dadais Mozart. You've you've probably heard of it.
Speaker 4: Right, Mozart in the Jungle, Mozart in the City.
Speaker 2: I was confusing with Beethoven for no good reason.
Speaker 1: Beethoven is the one who went death.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Mozart was like the magic flute dis auba flute.
Speaker 1: He was also he was living a wild rock star life.
Speaker 1: I didn't know this, but he had tons of mistresses.
Speaker 1: His wife actually kicked him out of the of the
Speaker 1: house they shared together, And there was a great comic
Speaker 1: us on a recent Netflix series who described Mozart's lifestyle
Speaker 1: and pointed out how difficult it would be in the
Speaker 1: time of which he lived for your wife to kick
Speaker 1: you out of that house. Like the bar for behavior given,
Speaker 1: you know, patriarchal attitudes was so low that you really
Speaker 1: had to be going ham and bacon.
Speaker 2: You know, I have never seen Amedaeis.
Speaker 1: It's great. Yeah, yeah, it's a good film.
Speaker 2: Cliary that was like his nemesis, right, yeah, Okay, they
Speaker 2: were beefed up apparently.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been a while since I saw it, but
Speaker 1: it's masterful performance. I think, yeah, it's no Police Academy four,
Speaker 1: but what.
Speaker 4: Is exactly you know?
Speaker 1: I mean even Police Academy didn't have their stride until
Speaker 1: well after Police Academy three.
Speaker 2: What happened in four? What happened in four?
Speaker 1: You have to watch it?
Speaker 2: Really?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just I don't want to cheapen the cinematic
Speaker 1: experience for you.
Speaker 2: They all kind of run together in my mind. I
Speaker 2: may have only ever seen you. I may have only
Speaker 2: ever seen Police Academy one. WHOA, Well, I'm sorry, dude,
Speaker 2: am I fired?
Speaker 4: No, we should get together and watch those and then
Speaker 4: just watch all of them. Then not stop and watch
Speaker 4: all of the Naked Gun series. There's only two Naked
Speaker 4: Gun movie.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. They all kind of blur together in
Speaker 2: my mind.
Speaker 1: Too, and then watch Amadeus, which is the spiritual companion
Speaker 1: piece to Naked Gun thirty three and a third and
Speaker 1: Police Academy four.
Speaker 4: And then get back to Lost Tumes Part two.
Speaker 1: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart remains one of the most influential classical
Speaker 1: composers of all time. That's not hyperbole. The guy was
Speaker 1: just that good. He died on December fifth and seventeen
Speaker 1: ninety one, and maybe this is unfamiliar to a lot
Speaker 1: of people, but the circumstances of his death remain murky today,
Speaker 1: and there are over one hundred theories about what happened.
Speaker 4: Whoa especially for someone that you know, I'm seventeen ninety
Speaker 4: one is a long time ago, but it's not that
Speaker 4: long ago. It's not as though there wasn't somebody looking
Speaker 4: at his body after his death and going that's probably this.
Speaker 4: But again, when you're dealing with something about poison or
Speaker 4: something that kills you internally, and seventeen ninety one, then
Speaker 4: it's probably a lot more difficult.
Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, a ton of people thought he had been
Speaker 1: poisoned because again and he was living wild.
Speaker 2: He probably had a lot of perhaps spurned lovers. But
Speaker 2: it may have sought revenge.
Speaker 4: Maybe he contracted something from his wild lifestyle.
Speaker 1: Oh that's possible, quite possible. Yeah, maybe he just had
Speaker 1: you know, at this time in human history, it's disturbingly
Speaker 1: easy for what we would consider a common everyday infection
Speaker 1: to grow unchecked and kill you, you know, like an infectious
Speaker 1: disease like rheumatic fever, so on. So Mozart died, and
Speaker 1: that is where our story about Mozart begins off to
Speaker 1: a great note. The record seemed to indicate that he
Speaker 1: was sealed in a wooden coffin and buried in a
Speaker 1: plot along with four to five other people, and that
Speaker 1: there was a wooden marker used to identify this technically
Speaker 1: speaking mass grave.
Speaker 4: That is so strange to me that he didn't wasn't
Speaker 4: in like a place that was venerated a little bit
Speaker 4: more hm, very strange. But anyway, this idea that he was,
Speaker 4: you know, perhaps buried with several other people gave rise
Speaker 4: to the commonly accepted myth that he was buried in
Speaker 4: a pauper's grave what was known as a popper's grave
Speaker 4: at the time, a less wealthy person's grave, specifically because
Speaker 4: of the debts that he'd accrued over the course of
Speaker 4: his pretty crazy life that we talked about.
Speaker 2: Probably was it like party debts, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean those royalties never got to come in for Mozart, really.
Speaker 2: That's true. And didn't he largely exist on kind of
Speaker 2: a like a patronage kind of model when he was alive?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe so, ye artists model, So he is
Speaker 1: he's buried not the best financial situation, and this idea,
Speaker 1: this idea of in turin our loved ones with four
Speaker 1: to five other people might today be something that we
Speaker 1: associate with poverty or with crime, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: That's how merciless government or a drug cartel, if those
Speaker 1: things are still different today, that's how they would bury people.
Speaker 1: That's now decent folks bury people, right, But this was
Speaker 1: the standard practice for middle income families at the time.
Speaker 1: His death is murky and unexplained, but his burial was
Speaker 1: surprisingly normal, right.
Speaker 2: So the burial of groups of people in one grave
Speaker 2: was organized and dignified, and it differed significantly from the
Speaker 2: images of large open pits now that you think of
Speaker 2: when the term mass grave gets thrown around. Mozart may
Speaker 2: not have died rich, but he was admired. He had friends,
Speaker 2: and they came to his widow's aid. They helped her
Speaker 2: pay his debts and his funeral costs. There was many
Speaker 2: large grave side gatherings, and grand funeral were not really
Speaker 2: a thing to do in Vienna during this period, so
Speaker 2: Mozart's burial was likely very simple, but a church service
Speaker 2: was certainly held in his honor, and he was buried
Speaker 2: as a man of his social standing would have been
Speaker 2: at the time. At this point, Mozart had a grave. However,
Speaker 2: at some stage during the next five to fifteen years,
Speaker 2: his plot was dug up to make room for more burials.
Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, this is a practice they picked up combating
Speaker 1: epidemics and plagues, and conventionally we have to make more
Speaker 1: room for the dead so that the living can live.
Speaker 1: The bones were reinterred, they may have been crushed to
Speaker 1: reduce their size, and as a consequence of this, the
Speaker 1: position of Mozart's grave was lost. Again. This we're paying
Speaker 1: more attention to this because it was Mozart, this amazing composer.
Speaker 1: This was also fairly common practice for someone living in
Speaker 1: Vienna at the time, and some historians have suggested that
Speaker 1: maybe there's a little bit of a pr spin here,
Speaker 1: a bit of post mortem propaganda.
Speaker 4: And I had never heard this at all before.
Speaker 1: Really, yeah, this was new to me as well. The
Speaker 1: idea is that Mozart's widow, Constance may have encouraged the
Speaker 1: pauper's burial story, or even started it, to make the
Speaker 1: public more interested in her husband's work and then to
Speaker 1: come see her perform Mozart's pieces compositions.
Speaker 4: It sounds like something that you might hear about in
Speaker 4: the social media age, where you know, you start a
Speaker 4: video or something about, oh my gosh, my loved one
Speaker 4: died and they were just put here and these are
Speaker 4: the terrible circumstances that were going through. But check this
Speaker 4: out while I sing this song that my loved one
Speaker 4: that just died wrote that you can find on iTunes
Speaker 4: right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And we know, okay, we know that's quite
Speaker 1: possible depending on what your uh, your base level estimation
Speaker 1: of human ethics might be, you know, and there are
Speaker 1: a lot of there are a lot of circumstances that
Speaker 1: have probably lost to history. We do know that grave
Speaker 1: space was at a premium back then. It's still a
Speaker 1: problem that local municipal organizations in the area have to
Speaker 1: worry about. Frankly, and people were given one grave for
Speaker 1: a few years, then moved to an all purpose smaller area.
Speaker 1: But here's here's one strange thing. We may have lost
Speaker 1: Mozart's grave, but someone may have his skull.
Speaker 2: Is it Nicholas Cage.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he has it in his pyramid right next to
Speaker 4: t Rex skull. No, it's a okay, let's let's get
Speaker 4: to the real thing.
Speaker 1: Here.
Speaker 4: It's called the Salzburg Mozartium. That's kind of cool. Mozartium.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Mozart Strasa right in Salzburg.
Speaker 4: Yes, they represented with this pretty morbid gift at one point,
Speaker 4: and it's supposedly Mozart's skull.
Speaker 2: Interesting but surely unconfirmed.
Speaker 1: Unconfirmed but looking good. Yeah, who uh the the skull
Speaker 1: belonged to someone who died in a way that's consistent
Speaker 1: with Mozart symptoms before death.
Speaker 2: What were those buttons we talked about in the last episode,
Speaker 2: Thomas pain, Thomas pain buttons. Yeah, it's kind of like
Speaker 2: a thing where you could probably confirm roughly the age
Speaker 2: of the skull and how this person met their end,
Speaker 2: but don't We also not really know how Mozart died.
Speaker 2: There was no trauma to the skull or anything.
Speaker 1: It was Yeah, he had symptoms that were he had
Speaker 1: symptoms upon which we could build a couple of theories
Speaker 1: for death. Poison doesn't really check out in this scenario.
Speaker 1: But here's how the story goes, and this is already
Speaker 1: sort of a legend. Allegedly, a grave digger during the
Speaker 1: reorganization of Mozart's original grave was struck by a pang
Speaker 1: of conscience and said, I, you know, I can't let
Speaker 1: Mozart's skull go gently into that good night, rage, rage,
Speaker 1: et cetera. And he took the skull, he stole it. Essentially,
Speaker 1: scientific testing so far has not been able to confirm
Speaker 1: or deny that the skull belonged to Mozart. But and
Speaker 1: this goes back to what you were asking, there's evidence
Speaker 1: on the skull to determine that whomever originally was the
Speaker 1: I guess possessor of this skull, whosever's skull it was,
Speaker 1: they died due to something called chronic heematoma, which would
Speaker 1: be consistent with some of Mozart's symptoms before death. He
Speaker 1: had a lot of swelling, He had things that looked
Speaker 1: like maybe not an infection in the kidneys, but his
Speaker 1: kidneys were We're not working correctly now. Even now, they're
Speaker 1: several medical theories about the exact cause of his death,
Speaker 1: But people who are using the skull as a basis
Speaker 1: for those theories have to admit no one, no one
Speaker 1: is one sure it's Mozart's skull yet.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because you'd have to have another part of the
Speaker 4: body right to test that you could confirm was Mozart
Speaker 4: to get some DNA from.
Speaker 1: That or maybe a descendant. Would you do that?
Speaker 4: Otherwise you're using genetic genealogy trying to maybe fit him
Speaker 4: within a family tree somewhere.
Speaker 1: Hmm, interesting, I wonder are there any descendants of Mozart
Speaker 1: alive and kicking?
Speaker 2: Are you a descendant of Mozart? Let us know? Not
Speaker 2: the end of the show.
Speaker 4: It was a fake out, but there might be a
Speaker 4: lot more children of Mozart than they're aware, just because
Speaker 4: of those wild times he was having.
Speaker 1: M It looks like Mozart's two surviving sons died without
Speaker 1: descendant that we know of, and this is the end
Speaker 1: of Mozart's story, but not our show. Stay tuned, will
Speaker 1: take a brief break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1: We're back. Okay, So Mozart has a lot of legends
Speaker 1: surrounding his death, but as we saw when you scrutinize this,
Speaker 1: a lot of it's normal, other than the fact that
Speaker 1: someone apparently stole a skull and they've been passing around
Speaker 1: for for years. This next tale concerned someone who is
Speaker 1: purposely buried in secret and hopes that their body would
Speaker 1: never be found. And it's a guy named Attila the
Speaker 1: hun But who is that? Who is that?
Speaker 4: You know, well, you've definitely heard the name before, but
Speaker 4: you may only know the broad outlines of Oh it's
Speaker 4: a Tilla Hunt. That sounds familiar. It's kind of like
Speaker 4: that Genghis guy, right, not that Jingus dude, but it
Speaker 4: sounds like the Genghis guy for sure. But even the
Speaker 4: most prominent scholars in the field, people would actually be
Speaker 4: studying someone like until the Hunt. Consider this person until
Speaker 4: an international man of mystery of sorts, not necessarily in
Speaker 4: Austin powers, but you know, get in that same ballpark.
Speaker 1: Yeah, This guy, who appears to have come just out
Speaker 1: of the blue or at least his origins or somewhat murky,
Speaker 1: became an incredibly terrifying and dangerous conqueror in the early
Speaker 1: fifth century. He led a group of a group of
Speaker 1: communities that were allied together that were collectively known as
Speaker 1: the Hunnik Empire, and they terrorized the Eastern and Western
Speaker 1: Roman empires.
Speaker 4: I hope the ideas of communities terrorizing an empire like that.
Speaker 1: Like some would be considered clans, some would be tribes,
Speaker 1: some would be bands, exactly, would be conscripted exactly.
Speaker 4: It's just a really interesting way to frame it, because ultimately,
Speaker 4: that's what those groups are. It's a community of people
Speaker 4: working together for a goals. It just happens to be
Speaker 4: to terrorize It.
Speaker 1: Not quite as vicious as your local HOA from what
Speaker 1: I understand, right, but at least the HOA stays in
Speaker 1: one place.
Speaker 2: I think that George Lucas was inspired by Attil the
Speaker 2: Hunt when he named Jabba the Hut.
Speaker 1: Hmmm, I think it's quite possible. Yeah, I think it's
Speaker 1: quite possible.
Speaker 4: I should ask him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's kind of hard to get to. He lives
Speaker 2: in a compound. He doesn't really go outside very much.
Speaker 1: Okay, job of the Hut.
Speaker 2: People are still mad about those prequels.
Speaker 1: I read it very this this has not too much
Speaker 1: to do with today's episode, but just a side note
Speaker 1: because I don't think we can make a full episode
Speaker 1: about this. There's a fantastic fan theory slash conspiracy theory
Speaker 1: regarding jar Jar Binks and the prequels. Yes, the argument
Speaker 1: being that jar Jar Binks, when Lucas like control of
Speaker 1: the franchise, was originally intended to be revealed as a
Speaker 1: Sith lord. You heard that man familiar with that one.
Speaker 4: And he was literally the key to everything in that
Speaker 4: first movie and what eventually he was going to be
Speaker 4: the key to everything in the whole series.
Speaker 2: Man George really liked that character, didn't he. Oh yeah, he.
Speaker 1: Doubled down, you know what I mean. There's to each
Speaker 1: their own, but he doubled down. You can see some
Speaker 1: videos arguing this theory, and I gotta admit I'm not
Speaker 1: one hundred percent persuaded, but it made you think.
Speaker 4: It really did. He certainly ended up being a sith
Speaker 4: lord in our minds.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, the sith lord in our minds, in our hearts,
Speaker 1: in our hearts. Yeah. So jar Jar, like Attila, the
Speaker 1: hunt may well have played a mysterious role in history.
Speaker 1: We know, we know a pretty good bit about the
Speaker 1: movements of Attila and co movements of and we know
Speaker 1: about their military campaigns, but most of the information about
Speaker 1: Attila himself comes from his enemies at the time, which
Speaker 1: we run into a lot. You know, people who hunt
Speaker 1: witches are writing about witches. They're not going to say
Speaker 1: the nicest thing about witches, right, And most of Hunnik
Speaker 1: literature compounds the problem because it was passed down orally,
Speaker 1: so people were just telling stories to each other playing
Speaker 1: telephone again, and bit by bit that stuff disappeared or
Speaker 1: got absorbed into other empires. People still don't agree on
Speaker 1: exactly where Attila the Hun was from, and they also
Speaker 1: don't really know what he looked like except for one description,
Speaker 1: like one paragraph from one guy who went to the court,
Speaker 1: and people have made entire academic careers off that paragraph.
Speaker 1: But fast forward, here's a conqueror, not quite as successful,
Speaker 1: probably as Alexander the Great, but a huge threat to
Speaker 1: the Roman empires at the time.
Speaker 4: And then he died, and then he died.
Speaker 2: And that's where our story begins. Yes, exactly again, ah man.
Speaker 2: He died sometime in March of four fifty three at
Speaker 2: a feast celebrating his latest marriage, and people are still
Speaker 2: arguing about exactly how he died surprise surprise, to this day.
Speaker 2: And there are four prevailing theories about this. Theory. Number
Speaker 2: one is that in the midst of this soiree, this revelry,
Speaker 2: and of course some heavy drinking that accompanied it, he
Speaker 2: suffered a severe nosebleed and choked to death in a drunken, bloody.
Speaker 4: Stupor gross Do you want to hear theory number two?
Speaker 2: You remember the Children of the Corn Too movie.
Speaker 4: Oh, I could not tell you anything about that.
Speaker 2: Well, I just remember there's one part where they have
Speaker 2: like a voodoo doll of this woman and they stick
Speaker 2: a knife in her nose and she gets like a
Speaker 2: she bleeds to death from a nose bleed. That's kind
Speaker 2: of how I picture this going down.
Speaker 4: Oh okay, here's theory number two. Possibly Again we're talking
Speaker 4: about heavy drinking at the party and something there was
Speaker 4: a complication because of this, But in this case it's
Speaker 4: internal bleeding, something called esophageal verses, where these dilated veins
Speaker 4: in the lower part of the esophagus in your neck there,
Speaker 4: but lower a little bit, they rupture, leading to death
Speaker 4: by bleeding out hemorrhage essentially. Ah okay, So like he
Speaker 4: either bled out in the nasal area or in the
Speaker 4: throat area. That's what we've got so far.
Speaker 1: Coffee up lit. Yeah, so either way, this was super messy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's choking essentially, you can't breathe.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: There's this other theory that was recorded about eighty years
Speaker 1: after his death by a Roman chronicler named Marcellinius, and
Speaker 1: in their report he says Attila, king of the huns
Speaker 1: and Ravager of the Provinces of Europe, was pierced by
Speaker 1: the hand and blade of his wife. So he said, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's straight his wife killed him. He had just picked
Speaker 1: up he was celebrating this his latest marriage. I think
Speaker 1: we had said earlier he married pretty frequently. These were
Speaker 1: political alliances at times, and I'm sure in at least
Speaker 1: a few cases these were not consensual marriages.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Marsilian, Marsillian, Marsillians, Marsillinius. Yeah, Marcellinius did not mention
Speaker 4: which wife, that's true.
Speaker 1: I think we assumed it was his latest wife, for
Speaker 1: his most recent Uh. And then that last theory is
Speaker 1: that he was assassinated by Roman officials, which is just
Speaker 1: a natural thing you would assume, because he was a
Speaker 1: terrorist in their eyes, you know what I mean, who
Speaker 1: couldn't quite be caught.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and what were Roman officials good for if
Speaker 2: not plotting assassinations. I was kind of there.
Speaker 4: And it is a big party where there's a lot
Speaker 4: of heavy drinking. Again, a little bit of that poison
Speaker 4: if you looked like he was choking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so they say he's dead. He explode, blood
Speaker 1: exploded out of his face. Somehow we don't have no
Speaker 1: further questions. It's time to bury him. So they get
Speaker 1: a triple I guess a triple leveled or triple shelled coffin. First,
Speaker 1: it's encased in gold, and that's to show everybody that
Speaker 1: he was a baller, no, literally, that he was wealthy
Speaker 1: and glorious.
Speaker 4: Wait, the is that at the core? So between him,
Speaker 4: there's nothing between him and the gold essentially.
Speaker 1: Right, okay, right? And then over the gold silver to
Speaker 1: show that he's down with the moon and the river. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's good that he shares kinship with him. Right, and
Speaker 1: then finally iron to show that he was most importantly,
Speaker 1: most outwardly a tough, tough dude. Nice, so they put
Speaker 1: some thought into it, but with a heart of gold,
Speaker 1: but with a heart of gold quite so, just so,
Speaker 1: And this this is strange because here's where the story
Speaker 1: takes a turn. Myth and fact get very difficult to
Speaker 1: differentiate from this point on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. Hun engineers they have those at the
Speaker 2: time are said to have diverted the Tisa River long
Speaker 2: enough to dry up the main river bed where Attila
Speaker 2: was entombed in this magnificent sarcophagus. So then the waters
Speaker 2: were released and they flooded back over the grave site
Speaker 2: and this is this is the thing we've heard about. Actually,
Speaker 2: I think this was the case with the burial of
Speaker 2: Jengis Khan as well. The folks that bore his casket
Speaker 2: of sarcophagus to that site were then murdered unequivocally. And
Speaker 2: it's possible they may have even known that that was
Speaker 2: going to hapen and then they were like down with
Speaker 2: that just for the absolute privilege and honor of being
Speaker 2: able to carry their glorious leader to his final resting place.
Speaker 4: At least their immediate family might know maybe or it's
Speaker 4: probably secret.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, maybe they weren't told. Wow, but they had
Speaker 1: to know something was up right. The sarcophagus stood out.
Speaker 1: And I appreciate you pointing out the similarities with Djengis
Speaker 1: Khan because there's also that river legend about the Khan, right,
Speaker 1: so maybe these stories got combined over time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that is I mean, I love that idea
Speaker 4: that somewhere at the bottom of a river that's where
Speaker 4: Attilabehun rests.
Speaker 1: It also points to a possible cultural or ancestral commonality
Speaker 1: between the Hun community and the Mongol community. Some sort
Speaker 1: you know, at least in this funereal practice. So yeah,
Speaker 1: as you say said, no details ever emerged. Where exactly
Speaker 1: is he buried, We don't know. We've heard that he's
Speaker 1: at the bottom of this river, right, sleeping with the fishes,
Speaker 1: sleeping under the fishes technically, yeah, because the heavy coffin
Speaker 1: would have sank, and quite possibly with untold treasures.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it does make you want to somehow find a
Speaker 4: way to travel a river and just like with a
Speaker 4: metal detector or something.
Speaker 1: Heck, yeah, I love uncharted man untold treasures.
Speaker 2: But let's speculate. You think there was some like nice
Speaker 2: neck pieces in there, some chains.
Speaker 1: Weapons like is lucky not lucky, but you know, whatever's prized,
Speaker 1: sword or spear or something. Yeah, probably varied in full armor, jewels,
Speaker 1: quite possibly. Yeah, encrusted. I love it when things are encrusted.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe worked, bone carved, boney stones, things like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe a bit. And beyond card, no, not good enough.
Speaker 4: Can you imagine how much money until the hun or
Speaker 4: Jakis Kahn or somebody would have on a bed bath
Speaker 4: and beyond card.
Speaker 1: I don't think they paid for things, Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: I think they would just ride the horse in and
Speaker 1: go reeving. You know, wow, But who knows. Maybe if
Speaker 1: they had a coupon that would change it. Maybe if
Speaker 1: they said, well, twenty percent off, it's virtually free.
Speaker 4: Anyway, That's how we fix the world and stop everybody
Speaker 4: from hurting each other and being so mad. Coupons build bad,
Speaker 4: bath and beyond and just give everybody gift cards.
Speaker 1: Oh man, I don't you know. I think I knock
Speaker 1: that mail or that they send out just because it
Speaker 1: is so ubiquitous, Like do you get them at your houses?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, I am a human being.
Speaker 1: You have a bed, bath, and beyond.
Speaker 2: I've always wondered what the beyond. I guess beyond is
Speaker 2: just all the non bed and bath related idea kitchen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it really depends on the intonation you use
Speaker 1: when you hit the odd.
Speaker 2: I think I've mentioned this before, but this is particularly
Speaker 2: appropriate for this episode. In my hometown, there's a store
Speaker 2: called Caskets and More.
Speaker 1: Whoa, I remember that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, see, and it again.
Speaker 1: It's the intonation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think with.
Speaker 1: Caskets and More it's it's a little more sinister. I
Speaker 1: love it though, And the fact that Attila the Hunt's
Speaker 1: grave site is lost to history until somebody diverts a
Speaker 1: river just to see what veracity there may be to
Speaker 1: this story. Uh, that still hasn't stopped cities, villages, and
Speaker 1: towns in the area from advertising themselves as the genuine
Speaker 1: location of the grave of Attila the Hunt. So if
Speaker 1: you'd like to suspend your disbelief just a bit, feel
Speaker 1: free to travel to Hungary and then snap a selfie
Speaker 1: in front of any variety of here lies Untila the
Speaker 1: Hunt signs. You know what I mean, I'm there, Yeah,
Speaker 1: just point you know what they I just pointed a river.
Speaker 2: Ah.
Speaker 1: It's so it's so morbid. But if you think about it,
Speaker 1: someone has died in every river on this planet. I
Speaker 1: hope I didn't just ruin rivers for everyone.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Maybe not every creek.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but every river. The water keeps flowing, So here
Speaker 4: we go. That one doesn't bother me as much. Lakes still, though.
Speaker 1: Lakes did You should ask Scott Benjamin about this before
Speaker 1: we go to break. We did an episode years and
Speaker 1: years back about how many cars have been found in
Speaker 1: lakes when they dry up just even fifteen feet twenty
Speaker 1: feet from the shoreline. It's disturbing. It's way more than
Speaker 1: you think, and just in the US, far far more.
Speaker 4: All right, Well, let's go to the lake everybody. No,
Speaker 4: you know, I don't want to go on a tangi,
Speaker 4: but Lake Land ear up near where I grew up.
Speaker 4: There's some there's some creek sepiness to that lake because
Speaker 4: it's a man made it's all. You know, it was
Speaker 4: flooded and everything.
Speaker 1: There are no natural lakes in Georgia.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and everyone talks about how there's supposedly a church
Speaker 4: down there and everything, and there are all these legends
Speaker 4: about what's at the bottom of this really murky, gross
Speaker 4: looking lake. That is wonderful and I love Lake Laniar
Speaker 4: and go visit if you get a chance. But it
Speaker 4: just has this creepy quality to it.
Speaker 1: But I believe there's some sand to that matt because
Speaker 1: there were structures there that were flooded. That's a true story.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but some of it is a little far
Speaker 4: fetched in my eyes. Even if you look back at
Speaker 4: the historical record, some of the things that come out
Speaker 4: are pure legend. But they're fun.
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know what. Let's have a creepy
Speaker 1: conversation about this off air while we're playing a word
Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Okay, fine, No, that's fine. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: just agree to disagree.
Speaker 4: I'm okay with that, all right.
Speaker 2: No, I think you're both wrong.
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, you had to see that. We have to
Speaker 1: remember that we're friends. We can't let these off air
Speaker 1: conversations tear our friendship apart.
Speaker 4: You're right, Let me apply a little bit more of
Speaker 4: this here.
Speaker 2: We go ahead, and we met some mats on death's
Speaker 2: door right now, and he's still here for you. Well,
Speaker 2: by you, I mean you the listeners.
Speaker 1: He reminds me in many ways of Sir Francis Drake.
Speaker 4: Oh me too, I remind myself, I hope not.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, who's other than reminding everyone vaguely of our
Speaker 1: pal Matt Frederick. Who is Sir Francis Drake.
Speaker 4: Well, he was this fifty six year old guy that
Speaker 4: apparently unfortunately died. He was born in fifteen forty. He
Speaker 4: lived until January twenty eighth, fifteen ninety six, and he
Speaker 4: was an English explorer who was involved in things such
Speaker 4: as you might know of piracy, elicit slave trading. He
Speaker 4: also became the second person ever to circumnavigate the globe.
Speaker 4: But his name when you hear sir Francis Drake. You
Speaker 4: a lot of times, if you're not a big history buff,
Speaker 4: you just imagine in my head this explorer. This I'm
Speaker 4: speaking personally here because his name has been mentioned in
Speaker 4: so many video games and all these things. But a
Speaker 4: lot of times you don't get the context, the full
Speaker 4: context at least of what somebody like this their life
Speaker 4: and what they did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he did quite a bit. He sailed around the
Speaker 1: globe when that was a big deal. Still is, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: it still is. He was acquainted with the halls of power.
Speaker 1: Is definitely not a not a great person, So don't
Speaker 1: fall for a lot of the romanticization you may read
Speaker 1: about Drake. His circumnavigation was also a pirate mission technically.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well in a way it almost kind of had
Speaker 4: to be, in this weird and messed up way. But
Speaker 4: I give that's the idea of I need to get supplies.
Speaker 4: However I can get supplies.
Speaker 1: Oh and this is good foreshadowing of what happens to
Speaker 1: him because his expedition was officially a journey for knowledge,
Speaker 1: a voyage of discovery, but he also had a secret
Speaker 1: agreement with Queen Elizabeth that along the way on this
Speaker 1: quote unquote Voyage of Discovery. He would attack and assault
Speaker 1: and terrorized the Spanish any way that he could, particularly
Speaker 1: if it meant disrupting their shipping routes. So as soon
Speaker 1: as they got into this Pacific, he almost made it
Speaker 1: more of a priority to plunder Spanish ships and rob
Speaker 1: ports than he did to actually go all the way
Speaker 1: around the world, and he stole a lot of stuff.
Speaker 1: He eventually returned home from that trip as the world's
Speaker 1: most wealthy pirate.
Speaker 4: He got night did too for his efforts, right by
Speaker 4: the queen. Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: He got knighted as well, and the Spanish king put
Speaker 1: a massive price on his head from because from fifteen
Speaker 1: seventy until the end of his life, this guy's out
Speaker 1: to get the Spanish, and King Philip the Second offered
Speaker 1: a bounty of twenty thousand ducats for his head that
Speaker 1: was the equivalent of millions of dollars today. When he
Speaker 1: came back from his worldwide piracy escapades, you're right, Matt,
Speaker 1: he was knighted, and then in fifteen eighty eight he
Speaker 1: participated the English defeat of the Spanish Armada, and he
Speaker 1: went on to become a tremendously influential figure in his
Speaker 1: even in his own day. And then he died, and
Speaker 1: that is where our story begins in fifteen ninety six.
Speaker 1: At least with this one, we do know how he died.
Speaker 1: He died of dysentery. So no one's like secretly poisoned.
Speaker 1: No one's like, uh, exploding blood face.
Speaker 4: He went out Oregon trail style.
Speaker 1: He went out Oregon trail style. He did, he really did.
Speaker 1: And he never got to Oregon, No, not without trying, though,
Speaker 1: So what did they do? Because the Spanish were on
Speaker 1: their backs. They hated this guy so much and for
Speaker 1: very good reason that they were actively searching for his corpse.
Speaker 2: Because they wanted to like do stuff to it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then get the bounty from King Philips. Bring him,
Speaker 1: like bring him the head, but let's do some stuff
Speaker 1: to it first.
Speaker 2: Sure, so Drake had a burial at sea, as was
Speaker 2: custom for a sailor type such as himself. He was
Speaker 2: buried in a lead lined coffin near the Bay of
Speaker 2: a Portobello, a few miles off the coastline. It is
Speaker 2: supposed that his final resting place is near the wrecks
Speaker 2: of two British ships, the Elizabeth and the Delight, which
Speaker 2: scuttled in Portobello Bank.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he was planning on this in advance. He said,
Speaker 1: if I die, when I die, sink the ships sink
Speaker 1: me too. Bury me in a coffin in the dark
Speaker 1: depths of the ocean, because I do not want those
Speaker 1: Spaniards to get their hands on me. He was also
Speaker 1: buried in full armor for his request, because he really
Speaker 1: did like His plan was that if these ships were
Speaker 1: purposely scuttled, if he were buried at sea in a
Speaker 1: leadline coffin to keep his remains from somehow rising right
Speaker 1: as they decay and separate, that he would be able
Speaker 1: to prevent the Spanish from finding and desecrating his remains.
Speaker 1: And that was his genuine fear. Like have you ever
Speaker 1: anyone listening, have you ever been at a point in
Speaker 1: your life where you think there are people who are
Speaker 1: interested enough in your death that they would desecrate your body.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: That seems strange.
Speaker 4: Yah, yeah, that's that's out there. But in his case, yeah,
Speaker 4: people would definitely want to desegrate his body.
Speaker 1: Like those people are living very high stakes lives.
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely. But yeah, I guess the whole point. I mean,
Speaker 4: I didn't even realize that you could seal. I guess yeah,
Speaker 4: it's obvious you could seal a coffin at that point
Speaker 4: in time in history, a leadlined coffin actually get that
Speaker 4: much of a seal where water isn't going to seep in,
Speaker 4: where the weight is going to keep him at the bottom.
Speaker 4: That's intense. Francis Drake, eancuse me, sir.
Speaker 1: That's right. That man sailed around the world robbing people blind.
Speaker 1: Can't forget about that. Fast forward to twenty eleven. There's
Speaker 1: a guy who owns sports teams. He's also a pirate enthusiast.
Speaker 1: He reads a book about Francis Drake and he says,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to find this fleet and
Speaker 1: this guy's body. This pirate enthusiast and sports team owners
Speaker 1: named Pat Crochet like Jim Crochey, and he claimed that
Speaker 1: he and a team of his treasure hunters had discovered
Speaker 1: two ships off the coast of Panama, and the ships
Speaker 1: that they found they believed to be the Elizabeth and
Speaker 1: the Delight, which mentioned earlier in nol Elizabeth being one
Speaker 1: hundred and ninety five ton ship and Delight being a
Speaker 1: fifty ton ship. And as you know, most speculation places
Speaker 1: Drake's body in Coffin somewhere in that area, and they
Speaker 1: focused on Portobello Bay after they hired a guy named
Speaker 1: Trevor mcgenry to pinpoint areas where the ships might have
Speaker 1: gone down. But very quickly they ran into a gray
Speaker 1: area when it comes to the protection of British shipwrecks,
Speaker 1: when it comes to anything from the Age of Empire.
Speaker 4: That's right. Under the Protection of Military Remains Act of
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty six, British naval vessels anywhere in the world
Speaker 4: are protected from exploitation. However, there's one little caveat here.
Speaker 4: The Act only covers certain ships which sunk since nineteen fourteen,
Speaker 4: and only British citizens can be prosecuted under it, which
Speaker 4: is a bit of a problem. Not right there. So
Speaker 4: there's a lot of history and ships that sailed before
Speaker 4: nineteen fourteen, and if it's only British citizens, anybody else
Speaker 4: who's outside coming in doesn't have to even worry about this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is where they get to an interesting thing.
Speaker 1: There's an organization called the Joint Nautical Archaeology Policy Committee
Speaker 1: sexy name right is still my Heart, and they have
Speaker 1: been pressing the United Kingdom's government for years to ratify
Speaker 1: some international agreements on the protection of what they would
Speaker 1: call underwater cultural heritage, you know what I mean. So
Speaker 1: the guy in charge of the Joint Nautical Archaeology Policy
Speaker 1: Committee is a guy named Robert Yorke. I don't know
Speaker 1: if he's a relation to Tom but he told the
Speaker 1: BBC if these are Drake's ships, they are presumably sovereign
Speaker 1: and immune. So why isn't the British government telling these
Speaker 1: people to go away? If we ratify the convention, we
Speaker 1: can make sure they were properly conserved and looked after.
Speaker 1: But Panama did ratify the convention, so its government might
Speaker 1: act to protect the wrecks of the ship. And what
Speaker 1: they mean when they say protect the wrect is not
Speaker 1: to allow someone to attempt an excavation or to attempt
Speaker 1: an analysis of this site just because they want to.
Speaker 1: You know, you have to have government approval, which can
Speaker 1: be really, really difficult. As we saw in our previous
Speaker 1: episode exploring the lives and burials of Neffertidy and Leopatra.
Speaker 1: People in the modern day can at a very very
Speaker 1: difficult time trying to get government approval for any ancient site.
Speaker 1: And it makes sense you don't want everybody to be
Speaker 1: able to just go somewhere and start digging, right. And
Speaker 1: as of this recording, it's weird because this was reported
Speaker 1: in twenty eleven and we tried, but we couldn't find
Speaker 1: much new information. So as of this recording, it appears
Speaker 1: Drake's body has yet to surface and his secrets, whatever
Speaker 1: they may be, remain safe in his watery grave.
Speaker 4: Just need somebody to go rogue and just go down
Speaker 4: there and find it, against all the government's wishes. Just
Speaker 4: go and do it.
Speaker 1: Nicholas Cage, Yes, we're.
Speaker 4: Invoking you and or who else is famous for playing
Speaker 4: like frogmen and the Navy seals and stuff. Oh, we
Speaker 4: need the body, Ventura, that's who we need. See. Yeah,
Speaker 4: we need Jesse to go down there.
Speaker 2: And maybe Jason Statham can come the rock. We should
Speaker 2: just assemble a crack team of action stars.
Speaker 4: Just the expendables. Go find Sir Francis Drake. Please.
Speaker 1: I would watch it. It'd be a different direction from them.
Speaker 1: I would definitely watch it. And that's that's where the
Speaker 1: story of Drake's body ends for now. But so far
Speaker 1: we have just been looking at the graves of famous dudes.
Speaker 1: There is another mysterious lost grave here in the United States.
Speaker 1: In New England.
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's here's here's the broad Strokes. Mary Dyer I
Speaker 2: was born Mary Barrett in sixteen eleven. She was an
Speaker 2: English teacher and a Colonial American Puritan who became a
Speaker 2: Quaker and who was hanged in the Boston, Massachusetts Bay
Speaker 2: Colony for repeatedly defying a Puritan law that banned Quakers
Speaker 2: from the colony. She is one of the four executed
Speaker 2: Quakers known as the Boston and Martyrs.
Speaker 1: It's a true story. It might not be familiar to
Speaker 1: a lot of people because she may not be famous
Speaker 1: in the current celebrity sense. You know, she's not an
Speaker 1: Instagram right, But Mary Dyer was a tremendously important person
Speaker 1: in the world of religious freedom during her lifetime. Her
Speaker 1: sin was converting from Puritanism to Quakerism, primarily because of
Speaker 1: these doctrinal differences. Quakers believe that people could interface directly
Speaker 1: with God or hear directly from God without needing a
Speaker 1: middle layer, an intermediary like a clergyman or something.
Speaker 4: It's funny, in twenty nineteen, that doesn't seem like that
Speaker 4: big of a deal or that big of a difference.
Speaker 4: But my goodness, that is an entire paradigm shift for
Speaker 4: the power structure. Yeah oo right, dangerous for dangerous for
Speaker 4: her mm hmmm.
Speaker 1: And this, yeah, this was a huge idea. It threatened
Speaker 1: the authority of the church leaders, and they they were
Speaker 1: so threatened to this that they had already banned Quakers
Speaker 1: from living in Massachusetts. Dyer went into exile and Rhode Island,
Speaker 1: but then she returned to Boston to support two friends
Speaker 1: who were imprisoned for their beliefs. All three were sentenced
Speaker 1: to death, but then at the last moment they said, no,
Speaker 1: you're just banished, get out of town, don't return, like
Speaker 1: the beginning of the Witch, except Mary Dyer came back
Speaker 1: again speaking out for religious freedom. So she eventually was
Speaker 1: put to death. She was hanged. She was buried in
Speaker 1: an unmarked plot in sixteen sixty and today we still
Speaker 1: don't know where the grave is. Was she buried, as
Speaker 1: some had said in Boston commons. Was her body stolen
Speaker 1: and in turned on a family farm. Was it put
Speaker 1: to the wind?
Speaker 4: Nobody knows.
Speaker 1: Nobody knows. And then we have just one last thing.
Speaker 1: This is the thing that I don't know about you guys,
Speaker 1: It surprised me when I learned about it. Steve Jobs
Speaker 1: is buried in an unmarked grave his family, and he
Speaker 1: specifically requested it.
Speaker 4: Now we can't.
Speaker 2: Worship him, No, you still can't.
Speaker 4: Oh look at my thing.
Speaker 2: Just yeah, just we all worship him. We worship him constantly,
Speaker 2: and we look at our phones all day long, and
Speaker 2: these are these laptops in front of us or our watches.
Speaker 1: Well, it's the worry was that people would go to
Speaker 1: his grave and either maybe desecrate it or just try
Speaker 1: to leave their own intrusive tributes. The thing is, this
Speaker 1: isn't this is in Silicon Valley, So it's many people
Speaker 1: feel that they have discovered the exact location, and they
Speaker 1: will swear it's confirmed it's a cemetery.
Speaker 2: Do you think if they did give him a grave
Speaker 2: it would have been made entirely of glass?
Speaker 1: I don't know, like like the Apple store.
Speaker 2: It would have looked like an Apple store.
Speaker 1: Oh maybe in a way. That's that's on brand. I
Speaker 1: guess all right.
Speaker 2: Steve Jobs and that guy certainly was an innovator. But
Speaker 2: if you have you read any of some of his.
Speaker 1: Quotes, terrible person seemed like a real, real terrible person.
Speaker 1: Really real meani uh falsely used handicap license that like
Speaker 1: car tags too, so he could park in handicap spaces.
Speaker 4: I'm trying to provide a counterpoint somewhere in here.
Speaker 1: Kids, he doesn't acknowledge.
Speaker 2: Steven kick puppies experience, right, was Wosniak Okay? Was he
Speaker 2: the nicer?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Everybody's weird in their own way.
Speaker 1: I guess we'll do a show on Apple in the future.
Speaker 1: Tell us yours Steve Jobs secrets, you know what else?
Speaker 2: Any what else? Everyone is in their own way? Matt Special,
Speaker 2: that's right, Special.
Speaker 4: I was going to bring up some mister Rogers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, now that's a serious rip Steve Jobs. I mean,
Speaker 2: I like my iPhone, but I could take him or
Speaker 2: leave the mister Rogers. That guy was a national treasure.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Fortunately we know mister Rogers the location of his
Speaker 1: resting place for the rest of these and again, we've
Speaker 1: just scratched the surface here. The question remains, will we
Speaker 1: ever find any of these graves?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: In some cases yeah, in other cases absolutely not, because
Speaker 1: the people have been scattered into the wind, their remains
Speaker 1: have been made into buttons, their remains have been stolen
Speaker 1: by secret societies. That is true again check out episode one.
Speaker 1: But we have to end on some questions. You know,
Speaker 1: we asked these earlier. What benefits do these searches have
Speaker 1: for modern human civilization? Is this a waste of money?
Speaker 1: Should we focus on feeding the people who are starving
Speaker 1: to death?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 1: Those are loaded questions, I know, I know, or because
Speaker 1: we can spend it the other way? Or are we
Speaker 1: investing in the future by learning more about the past.
Speaker 1: Those are very I think they're both very strong arguments.
Speaker 2: Sure, I asked this question. We did the gengis Con episode.
Speaker 2: It feels to me very much like a waste of time,
Speaker 2: like who cares? But then you pointed out very correctly, Ben,
Speaker 2: that it does. There are artifacts that could teach us
Speaker 2: things about the past that are there to be discovered potentially.
Speaker 2: I was more hung up on the idea of having
Speaker 2: to know, having to have the answers and understand, you know,
Speaker 2: be in control in some way.
Speaker 4: But I see both sides. I think you guys are
Speaker 4: forgetting about all the gold. There's a lot of gold, ducats,
Speaker 4: silver buried under these rivers and next to the ships.
Speaker 4: We got to find that gold. Maybe the heart of
Speaker 4: the ocean is down there.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe Orde la maire, Well don't. I don't lose hope, though,
Speaker 1: because as for the odds of findings long forgotten resting
Speaker 1: places and these corpses that have disappeared, we can end
Speaker 1: on a somewhat less bleak note. We do find these things.
Speaker 1: I can't believe I've forgot to mention this last episode.
Speaker 1: We recently discovered another famous royal body, King Richard II
Speaker 1: himself the Hunchback of Shakespearean fame. His body was lost
Speaker 1: to antiquity until twenty twelve when somebody found it underneath
Speaker 1: a parking lot.
Speaker 4: It's that's not a joke, that's not kidding. Yeah, that's real.
Speaker 1: That's real. He also didn't really have a hunchback.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this kind of thing has occurred a couple of times,
Speaker 4: not necessarily with a king over someone of this statue,
Speaker 4: but an interesting unmarked grave that was found underneath a
Speaker 4: building somewhere where there's just been a building for a
Speaker 4: couple of decades and it just happened to get cemented over,
Speaker 4: you know whatever case bricked over or wooded over.
Speaker 1: Wood it over, paved over, bricked over whatever it is
Speaker 1: built a top. Yeah, and this is in a way
Speaker 1: an inspiring and optimistic thing. We want to hear your
Speaker 1: stories and we want to hear what your take is.
Speaker 1: Is this worthwhile? Is this waste of time? There is
Speaker 1: clearly more out there. What are some of the mysteries
Speaker 1: maybe in your neck of the global woods? Or if
Speaker 1: you were a treasure hunter, an adventurer and archaeologist, what
Speaker 1: would be your number one quest? What would be your
Speaker 1: Oak Island money pit for instance? And why? You can
Speaker 1: let us know on Facebook at our community page. Here's
Speaker 1: where it gets crazy when you where you can talk
Speaker 1: to the best part of this show, your fellow listeners.
Speaker 1: You can also follow us on Instagram. You can follow
Speaker 1: me personally on Instagram at ben Bowl or you.
Speaker 2: Can follow me at Embryonic Insider. I think Matt chooses
Speaker 2: to stay off the personal gram that's correct, and our
Speaker 2: show Instagram is at Conspiracy Stuff Show.
Speaker 4: And that's the end of this classic episode. If you
Speaker 4: have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can
Speaker 4: get into contact with us in a number of different ways.
Speaker 4: One of the best is to give us a call.
Speaker 4: Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK. If you
Speaker 4: don't want to do that, you can send us a
Speaker 4: good old fashioned email.
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