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Speaker 1: Conspiracy realist. We are following up in our series on

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Speaker 1: famous lost tombs. This is part two. Check out part

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Speaker 1: one and then help us figure out where Djangis Khan

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Speaker 1: was buried. If you know, just tell us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I hear the X marks the spot or some

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Speaker 2: such nonsense.

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Speaker 1: Like the river shifted.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good to say. Let's go find these tombs, guys. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is

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Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 3: learn the stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 4: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 4: my name is no.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined with our returning

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Speaker 1: the fourth member of the fourth member of our podcast Enterprise. Folks.

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Speaker 1: Give a hand for super producer Paul Deckant, who has

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Speaker 1: just come back to Atlanta from some adventures abroad which

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Speaker 1: I don't know how much we want to disclose on air.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he's he's saying, stop stop stop talking, okay about that?

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Speaker 2: Making that sorry across the throat.

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Speaker 1: Gesture hint taken. Most importantly, you are you. You are

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Speaker 1: here that makes this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 1: Hold everything, hold the phone, stop the presses, this is

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Speaker 1: a part two episode, which means that if you want

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Speaker 1: to get the whole bang for your creepy buck today,

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Speaker 1: you'll want to listen to Famous Tombs Part one. Then

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Speaker 1: Famous Tombs Part one has some pretty pretty crazy insights.

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Speaker 1: So while you're there, you may also want to listen

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Speaker 1: to our Jengus Khan episode which inspired all of this.

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Speaker 1: I have one quick, Paul, can we get like a

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Speaker 1: breaking news sound cue? Perfect? One quick clarification we want

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Speaker 1: to make when we did our when did our episode

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Speaker 1: on the Ants cult in the Czech Republic, we had

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Speaker 1: some it was called the Curum case. Yes, that's correct,

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Speaker 1: thank you. We had some confusion. We didn't explicitly say it.

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Speaker 1: Both of the boys in that case did in fact survive,

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Speaker 1: and I believe it was me at some point who

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Speaker 1: said I believe one of them died. It's a translation

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Speaker 1: error on my part, So to be clear, there is

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a happy ending for those kids.

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Speaker 1: They did. They did make it this vibe and into adulthood.

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Speaker 1: They've got facebooks, the whole nine.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, just in case you survived that episode, because it

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Speaker 4: is a it is a gnarly one, but yeah, thank you, Ben.

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Speaker 4: That's important to know.

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Speaker 1: Oh thanks to everyone on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook

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Speaker 1: and so on who wrote to us to ask for

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Speaker 1: clarification or point that out without further ado. Assuming you've

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Speaker 1: heard Famous Tombs Part one, here's where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 2: We're starting right with getting crazy at the top.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, this was originally supposed to be just one episode.

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Speaker 2: Now it's true.

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Speaker 4: Let's break it down. There are a lot of people

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Speaker 4: that died, a lot more people than are currently living,

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Speaker 4: and well, not that have ever lived, because obviously if

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Speaker 4: you died, you lived in spoiler alert.

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Speaker 2: Everyone who's alive right now gonna die.

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Speaker 1: Possibly probably, but not definitely.

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Speaker 4: And also it's hard to bury everybody. Not everybody was buried,

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Speaker 4: so only some of the most important people are gonna

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Speaker 4: have tombs that remain from hundreds of years ago. That's

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Speaker 4: where we find ourselves.

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Speaker 1: And even those tombs didn't fare as well as their

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Speaker 1: creators had hoped. Right look upon my works, you mighty,

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Speaker 1: and so on. So it's strange. There is one surprise

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Speaker 1: that I found that maybe we can save till the end.

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Speaker 1: But let's let's start with Let's start with lost grave sites.

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Speaker 1: Right was that where that was where we were earlier, right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think we had a whole category to start fresh with.

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Speaker 1: So Wolfgang dadais Mozart. You've you've probably heard of it.

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Speaker 4: Right, Mozart in the Jungle, Mozart in the City.

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Speaker 2: I was confusing with Beethoven for no good reason.

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Speaker 1: Beethoven is the one who went death.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Mozart was like the magic flute dis auba flute.

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Speaker 1: He was also he was living a wild rock star life.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know this, but he had tons of mistresses.

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Speaker 1: His wife actually kicked him out of the of the

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Speaker 1: house they shared together, And there was a great comic

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Speaker 1: us on a recent Netflix series who described Mozart's lifestyle

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Speaker 1: and pointed out how difficult it would be in the

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Speaker 1: time of which he lived for your wife to kick

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Speaker 1: you out of that house. Like the bar for behavior given,

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Speaker 1: you know, patriarchal attitudes was so low that you really

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Speaker 1: had to be going ham and bacon.

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Speaker 2: You know, I have never seen Amedaeis.

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Speaker 1: It's great. Yeah, yeah, it's a good film.

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Speaker 2: Cliary that was like his nemesis, right, yeah, Okay, they

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Speaker 2: were beefed up apparently.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been a while since I saw it, but

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Speaker 1: it's masterful performance. I think, yeah, it's no Police Academy four,

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Speaker 1: but what.

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Speaker 4: Is exactly you know?

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Speaker 1: I mean even Police Academy didn't have their stride until

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Speaker 1: well after Police Academy three.

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Speaker 2: What happened in four? What happened in four?

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Speaker 1: You have to watch it?

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just I don't want to cheapen the cinematic

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Speaker 1: experience for you.

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Speaker 2: They all kind of run together in my mind. I

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Speaker 2: may have only ever seen you. I may have only

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Speaker 2: ever seen Police Academy one. WHOA, Well, I'm sorry, dude,

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Speaker 2: am I fired?

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Speaker 4: No, we should get together and watch those and then

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Speaker 4: just watch all of them. Then not stop and watch

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Speaker 4: all of the Naked Gun series. There's only two Naked

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Speaker 4: Gun movie.

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Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. They all kind of blur together in

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Speaker 2: my mind.

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Speaker 1: Too, and then watch Amadeus, which is the spiritual companion

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Speaker 1: piece to Naked Gun thirty three and a third and

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Speaker 1: Police Academy four.

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Speaker 4: And then get back to Lost Tumes Part two.

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Speaker 1: Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart remains one of the most influential classical

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Speaker 1: composers of all time. That's not hyperbole. The guy was

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Speaker 1: just that good. He died on December fifth and seventeen

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Speaker 1: ninety one, and maybe this is unfamiliar to a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, but the circumstances of his death remain murky today,

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Speaker 1: and there are over one hundred theories about what happened.

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Speaker 4: Whoa especially for someone that you know, I'm seventeen ninety

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Speaker 4: one is a long time ago, but it's not that

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Speaker 4: long ago. It's not as though there wasn't somebody looking

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Speaker 4: at his body after his death and going that's probably this.

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Speaker 4: But again, when you're dealing with something about poison or

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Speaker 4: something that kills you internally, and seventeen ninety one, then

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Speaker 4: it's probably a lot more difficult.

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Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, a ton of people thought he had been

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Speaker 1: poisoned because again and he was living wild.

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Speaker 2: He probably had a lot of perhaps spurned lovers. But

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Speaker 2: it may have sought revenge.

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Speaker 4: Maybe he contracted something from his wild lifestyle.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's possible, quite possible. Yeah, maybe he just had

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Speaker 1: you know, at this time in human history, it's disturbingly

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Speaker 1: easy for what we would consider a common everyday infection

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Speaker 1: to grow unchecked and kill you, you know, like an infectious

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Speaker 1: disease like rheumatic fever, so on. So Mozart died, and

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Speaker 1: that is where our story about Mozart begins off to

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Speaker 1: a great note. The record seemed to indicate that he

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Speaker 1: was sealed in a wooden coffin and buried in a

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Speaker 1: plot along with four to five other people, and that

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Speaker 1: there was a wooden marker used to identify this technically

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Speaker 1: speaking mass grave.

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Speaker 4: That is so strange to me that he didn't wasn't

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Speaker 4: in like a place that was venerated a little bit

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Speaker 4: more hm, very strange. But anyway, this idea that he was,

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Speaker 4: you know, perhaps buried with several other people gave rise

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Speaker 4: to the commonly accepted myth that he was buried in

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Speaker 4: a pauper's grave what was known as a popper's grave

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Speaker 4: at the time, a less wealthy person's grave, specifically because

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Speaker 4: of the debts that he'd accrued over the course of

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Speaker 4: his pretty crazy life that we talked about.

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Speaker 2: Probably was it like party debts, Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean those royalties never got to come in for Mozart, really.

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Speaker 2: That's true. And didn't he largely exist on kind of

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Speaker 2: a like a patronage kind of model when he was alive?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe so, ye artists model, So he is

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Speaker 1: he's buried not the best financial situation, and this idea,

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Speaker 1: this idea of in turin our loved ones with four

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Speaker 1: to five other people might today be something that we

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Speaker 1: associate with poverty or with crime, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: That's how merciless government or a drug cartel, if those

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Speaker 1: things are still different today, that's how they would bury people.

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Speaker 1: That's now decent folks bury people, right, But this was

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Speaker 1: the standard practice for middle income families at the time.

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Speaker 1: His death is murky and unexplained, but his burial was

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Speaker 1: surprisingly normal, right.

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Speaker 2: So the burial of groups of people in one grave

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Speaker 2: was organized and dignified, and it differed significantly from the

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Speaker 2: images of large open pits now that you think of

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Speaker 2: when the term mass grave gets thrown around. Mozart may

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Speaker 2: not have died rich, but he was admired. He had friends,

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Speaker 2: and they came to his widow's aid. They helped her

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Speaker 2: pay his debts and his funeral costs. There was many

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Speaker 2: large grave side gatherings, and grand funeral were not really

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Speaker 2: a thing to do in Vienna during this period, so

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Speaker 2: Mozart's burial was likely very simple, but a church service

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Speaker 2: was certainly held in his honor, and he was buried

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Speaker 2: as a man of his social standing would have been

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Speaker 2: at the time. At this point, Mozart had a grave. However,

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Speaker 2: at some stage during the next five to fifteen years,

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Speaker 2: his plot was dug up to make room for more burials.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, this is a practice they picked up combating

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Speaker 1: epidemics and plagues, and conventionally we have to make more

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Speaker 1: room for the dead so that the living can live.

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Speaker 1: The bones were reinterred, they may have been crushed to

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Speaker 1: reduce their size, and as a consequence of this, the

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Speaker 1: position of Mozart's grave was lost. Again. This we're paying

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Speaker 1: more attention to this because it was Mozart, this amazing composer.

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Speaker 1: This was also fairly common practice for someone living in

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Speaker 1: Vienna at the time, and some historians have suggested that

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Speaker 1: maybe there's a little bit of a pr spin here,

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Speaker 1: a bit of post mortem propaganda.

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Speaker 4: And I had never heard this at all before.

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Speaker 1: Really, yeah, this was new to me as well. The

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Speaker 1: idea is that Mozart's widow, Constance may have encouraged the

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Speaker 1: pauper's burial story, or even started it, to make the

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Speaker 1: public more interested in her husband's work and then to

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Speaker 1: come see her perform Mozart's pieces compositions.

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Speaker 4: It sounds like something that you might hear about in

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Speaker 4: the social media age, where you know, you start a

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Speaker 4: video or something about, oh my gosh, my loved one

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Speaker 4: died and they were just put here and these are

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Speaker 4: the terrible circumstances that were going through. But check this

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Speaker 4: out while I sing this song that my loved one

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Speaker 4: that just died wrote that you can find on iTunes

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Speaker 4: right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And we know, okay, we know that's quite

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Speaker 1: possible depending on what your uh, your base level estimation

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Speaker 1: of human ethics might be, you know, and there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of there are a lot of circumstances that

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Speaker 1: have probably lost to history. We do know that grave

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Speaker 1: space was at a premium back then. It's still a

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Speaker 1: problem that local municipal organizations in the area have to

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Speaker 1: worry about. Frankly, and people were given one grave for

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Speaker 1: a few years, then moved to an all purpose smaller area.

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Speaker 1: But here's here's one strange thing. We may have lost

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Speaker 1: Mozart's grave, but someone may have his skull.

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Speaker 2: Is it Nicholas Cage.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, he has it in his pyramid right next to

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Speaker 4: t Rex skull. No, it's a okay, let's let's get

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Speaker 4: to the real thing.

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Speaker 1: Here.

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Speaker 4: It's called the Salzburg Mozartium. That's kind of cool. Mozartium.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Mozart Strasa right in Salzburg.

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Speaker 4: Yes, they represented with this pretty morbid gift at one point,

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Speaker 4: and it's supposedly Mozart's skull.

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Speaker 2: Interesting but surely unconfirmed.

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Speaker 1: Unconfirmed but looking good. Yeah, who uh the the skull

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Speaker 1: belonged to someone who died in a way that's consistent

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Speaker 1: with Mozart symptoms before death.

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Speaker 2: What were those buttons we talked about in the last episode,

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Speaker 2: Thomas pain, Thomas pain buttons. Yeah, it's kind of like

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Speaker 2: a thing where you could probably confirm roughly the age

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Speaker 2: of the skull and how this person met their end,

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Speaker 2: but don't We also not really know how Mozart died.

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Speaker 2: There was no trauma to the skull or anything.

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Speaker 1: It was Yeah, he had symptoms that were he had

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Speaker 1: symptoms upon which we could build a couple of theories

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Speaker 1: for death. Poison doesn't really check out in this scenario.

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Speaker 1: But here's how the story goes, and this is already

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Speaker 1: sort of a legend. Allegedly, a grave digger during the

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Speaker 1: reorganization of Mozart's original grave was struck by a pang

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Speaker 1: of conscience and said, I, you know, I can't let

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Speaker 1: Mozart's skull go gently into that good night, rage, rage,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. And he took the skull, he stole it. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: scientific testing so far has not been able to confirm

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Speaker 1: or deny that the skull belonged to Mozart. But and

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Speaker 1: this goes back to what you were asking, there's evidence

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Speaker 1: on the skull to determine that whomever originally was the

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Speaker 1: I guess possessor of this skull, whosever's skull it was,

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Speaker 1: they died due to something called chronic heematoma, which would

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Speaker 1: be consistent with some of Mozart's symptoms before death. He

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Speaker 1: had a lot of swelling, He had things that looked

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Speaker 1: like maybe not an infection in the kidneys, but his

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Speaker 1: kidneys were We're not working correctly now. Even now, they're

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Speaker 1: several medical theories about the exact cause of his death,

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Speaker 1: But people who are using the skull as a basis

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Speaker 1: for those theories have to admit no one, no one

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Speaker 1: is one sure it's Mozart's skull yet.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, because you'd have to have another part of the

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Speaker 4: body right to test that you could confirm was Mozart

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Speaker 4: to get some DNA from.

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Speaker 1: That or maybe a descendant. Would you do that?

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Speaker 4: Otherwise you're using genetic genealogy trying to maybe fit him

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Speaker 4: within a family tree somewhere.

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Speaker 1: Hmm, interesting, I wonder are there any descendants of Mozart

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Speaker 1: alive and kicking?

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Speaker 2: Are you a descendant of Mozart? Let us know? Not

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Speaker 2: the end of the show.

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Speaker 4: It was a fake out, but there might be a

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Speaker 4: lot more children of Mozart than they're aware, just because

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Speaker 4: of those wild times he was having.

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Speaker 1: M It looks like Mozart's two surviving sons died without

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Speaker 1: descendant that we know of, and this is the end

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Speaker 1: of Mozart's story, but not our show. Stay tuned, will

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Speaker 1: take a brief break for a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 1: We're back. Okay, So Mozart has a lot of legends

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Speaker 1: surrounding his death, but as we saw when you scrutinize this,

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Speaker 1: a lot of it's normal, other than the fact that

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Speaker 1: someone apparently stole a skull and they've been passing around

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Speaker 1: for for years. This next tale concerned someone who is

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Speaker 1: purposely buried in secret and hopes that their body would

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Speaker 1: never be found. And it's a guy named Attila the

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Speaker 1: hun But who is that? Who is that?

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Speaker 4: You know, well, you've definitely heard the name before, but

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Speaker 4: you may only know the broad outlines of Oh it's

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Speaker 4: a Tilla Hunt. That sounds familiar. It's kind of like

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Speaker 4: that Genghis guy, right, not that Jingus dude, but it

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Speaker 4: sounds like the Genghis guy for sure. But even the

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Speaker 4: most prominent scholars in the field, people would actually be

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Speaker 4: studying someone like until the Hunt. Consider this person until

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Speaker 4: an international man of mystery of sorts, not necessarily in

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Speaker 4: Austin powers, but you know, get in that same ballpark.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, This guy, who appears to have come just out

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Speaker 1: of the blue or at least his origins or somewhat murky,

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Speaker 1: became an incredibly terrifying and dangerous conqueror in the early

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Speaker 1: fifth century. He led a group of a group of

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Speaker 1: communities that were allied together that were collectively known as

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Speaker 1: the Hunnik Empire, and they terrorized the Eastern and Western

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Speaker 1: Roman empires.

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Speaker 4: I hope the ideas of communities terrorizing an empire like that.

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Speaker 1: Like some would be considered clans, some would be tribes,

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Speaker 1: some would be bands, exactly, would be conscripted exactly.

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Speaker 4: It's just a really interesting way to frame it, because ultimately,

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Speaker 4: that's what those groups are. It's a community of people

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Speaker 4: working together for a goals. It just happens to be

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Speaker 4: to terrorize It.

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Speaker 1: Not quite as vicious as your local HOA from what

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Speaker 1: I understand, right, but at least the HOA stays in

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Speaker 1: one place.

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Speaker 2: I think that George Lucas was inspired by Attil the

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Speaker 2: Hunt when he named Jabba the Hut.

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Speaker 1: Hmmm, I think it's quite possible. Yeah, I think it's

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Speaker 1: quite possible.

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Speaker 4: I should ask him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's kind of hard to get to. He lives

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Speaker 2: in a compound. He doesn't really go outside very much.

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Speaker 1: Okay, job of the Hut.

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Speaker 2: People are still mad about those prequels.

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Speaker 1: I read it very this this has not too much

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Speaker 1: to do with today's episode, but just a side note

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Speaker 1: because I don't think we can make a full episode

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Speaker 1: about this. There's a fantastic fan theory slash conspiracy theory

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Speaker 1: regarding jar Jar Binks and the prequels. Yes, the argument

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Speaker 1: being that jar Jar Binks, when Lucas like control of

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Speaker 1: the franchise, was originally intended to be revealed as a

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Speaker 1: Sith lord. You heard that man familiar with that one.

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Speaker 4: And he was literally the key to everything in that

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Speaker 4: first movie and what eventually he was going to be

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Speaker 4: the key to everything in the whole series.

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Speaker 2: Man George really liked that character, didn't he. Oh yeah, he.

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Speaker 1: Doubled down, you know what I mean. There's to each

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Speaker 1: their own, but he doubled down. You can see some

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Speaker 1: videos arguing this theory, and I gotta admit I'm not

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent persuaded, but it made you think.

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Speaker 4: It really did. He certainly ended up being a sith

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Speaker 4: lord in our minds.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, the sith lord in our minds, in our hearts,

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Speaker 1: in our hearts. Yeah. So jar Jar, like Attila, the

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Speaker 1: hunt may well have played a mysterious role in history.

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Speaker 1: We know, we know a pretty good bit about the

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Speaker 1: movements of Attila and co movements of and we know

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Speaker 1: about their military campaigns, but most of the information about

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Speaker 1: Attila himself comes from his enemies at the time, which

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Speaker 1: we run into a lot. You know, people who hunt

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Speaker 1: witches are writing about witches. They're not going to say

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Speaker 1: the nicest thing about witches, right, And most of Hunnik

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Speaker 1: literature compounds the problem because it was passed down orally,

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Speaker 1: so people were just telling stories to each other playing

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Speaker 1: telephone again, and bit by bit that stuff disappeared or

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Speaker 1: got absorbed into other empires. People still don't agree on

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Speaker 1: exactly where Attila the Hun was from, and they also

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Speaker 1: don't really know what he looked like except for one description,

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Speaker 1: like one paragraph from one guy who went to the court,

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Speaker 1: and people have made entire academic careers off that paragraph.

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Speaker 1: But fast forward, here's a conqueror, not quite as successful,

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Speaker 1: probably as Alexander the Great, but a huge threat to

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Speaker 1: the Roman empires at the time.

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Speaker 4: And then he died, and then he died.

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Speaker 2: And that's where our story begins. Yes, exactly again, ah man.

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Speaker 2: He died sometime in March of four fifty three at

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Speaker 2: a feast celebrating his latest marriage, and people are still

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Speaker 2: arguing about exactly how he died surprise surprise, to this day.

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Speaker 2: And there are four prevailing theories about this. Theory. Number

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Speaker 2: one is that in the midst of this soiree, this revelry,

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Speaker 2: and of course some heavy drinking that accompanied it, he

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Speaker 2: suffered a severe nosebleed and choked to death in a drunken, bloody.

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Speaker 4: Stupor gross Do you want to hear theory number two?

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Speaker 2: You remember the Children of the Corn Too movie.

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Speaker 4: Oh, I could not tell you anything about that.

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Speaker 2: Well, I just remember there's one part where they have

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Speaker 2: like a voodoo doll of this woman and they stick

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Speaker 2: a knife in her nose and she gets like a

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Speaker 2: she bleeds to death from a nose bleed. That's kind

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Speaker 2: of how I picture this going down.

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Speaker 4: Oh okay, here's theory number two. Possibly Again we're talking

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Speaker 4: about heavy drinking at the party and something there was

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Speaker 4: a complication because of this, But in this case it's

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Speaker 4: internal bleeding, something called esophageal verses, where these dilated veins

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Speaker 4: in the lower part of the esophagus in your neck there,

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Speaker 4: but lower a little bit, they rupture, leading to death

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Speaker 4: by bleeding out hemorrhage essentially. Ah okay, So like he

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Speaker 4: either bled out in the nasal area or in the

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Speaker 4: throat area. That's what we've got so far.

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Speaker 1: Coffee up lit. Yeah, so either way, this was super messy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's choking essentially, you can't breathe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There's this other theory that was recorded about eighty years

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Speaker 1: after his death by a Roman chronicler named Marcellinius, and

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Speaker 1: in their report he says Attila, king of the huns

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Speaker 1: and Ravager of the Provinces of Europe, was pierced by

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Speaker 1: the hand and blade of his wife. So he said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's straight his wife killed him. He had just picked

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Speaker 1: up he was celebrating this his latest marriage. I think

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Speaker 1: we had said earlier he married pretty frequently. These were

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Speaker 1: political alliances at times, and I'm sure in at least

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Speaker 1: a few cases these were not consensual marriages.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Marsilian, Marsillian, Marsillians, Marsillinius. Yeah, Marcellinius did not mention

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Speaker 4: which wife, that's true.

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Speaker 1: I think we assumed it was his latest wife, for

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Speaker 1: his most recent Uh. And then that last theory is

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Speaker 1: that he was assassinated by Roman officials, which is just

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Speaker 1: a natural thing you would assume, because he was a

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Speaker 1: terrorist in their eyes, you know what I mean, who

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Speaker 1: couldn't quite be caught.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, and what were Roman officials good for if

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Speaker 2: not plotting assassinations. I was kind of there.

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Speaker 4: And it is a big party where there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of heavy drinking. Again, a little bit of that poison

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Speaker 4: if you looked like he was choking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so they say he's dead. He explode, blood

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Speaker 1: exploded out of his face. Somehow we don't have no

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Speaker 1: further questions. It's time to bury him. So they get

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Speaker 1: a triple I guess a triple leveled or triple shelled coffin. First,

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Speaker 1: it's encased in gold, and that's to show everybody that

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Speaker 1: he was a baller, no, literally, that he was wealthy

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Speaker 1: and glorious.

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Speaker 4: Wait, the is that at the core? So between him,

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Speaker 4: there's nothing between him and the gold essentially.

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Speaker 1: Right, okay, right? And then over the gold silver to

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Speaker 1: show that he's down with the moon and the river. Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's good that he shares kinship with him. Right, and

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Speaker 1: then finally iron to show that he was most importantly,

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Speaker 1: most outwardly a tough, tough dude. Nice, so they put

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Speaker 1: some thought into it, but with a heart of gold,

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Speaker 1: but with a heart of gold quite so, just so,

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Speaker 1: And this this is strange because here's where the story

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Speaker 1: takes a turn. Myth and fact get very difficult to

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Speaker 1: differentiate from this point on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. Hun engineers they have those at the

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Speaker 2: time are said to have diverted the Tisa River long

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Speaker 2: enough to dry up the main river bed where Attila

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Speaker 2: was entombed in this magnificent sarcophagus. So then the waters

436
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,679
Speaker 2: were released and they flooded back over the grave site

437
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 2: and this is this is the thing we've heard about. Actually,

438
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: I think this was the case with the burial of

439
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: Jengis Khan as well. The folks that bore his casket

440
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,639
Speaker 2: of sarcophagus to that site were then murdered unequivocally. And

441
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 2: it's possible they may have even known that that was

442
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 2: going to hapen and then they were like down with

443
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 2: that just for the absolute privilege and honor of being

444
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: able to carry their glorious leader to his final resting place.

445
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,640
Speaker 4: At least their immediate family might know maybe or it's

446
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 4: probably secret.

447
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, maybe they weren't told. Wow, but they had

448
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 1: to know something was up right. The sarcophagus stood out.

449
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,760
Speaker 1: And I appreciate you pointing out the similarities with Djengis

450
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: Khan because there's also that river legend about the Khan, right,

451
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: so maybe these stories got combined over time.

452
00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that is I mean, I love that idea

453
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 4: that somewhere at the bottom of a river that's where

454
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 4: Attilabehun rests.

455
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: It also points to a possible cultural or ancestral commonality

456
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: between the Hun community and the Mongol community. Some sort

457
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:59,200
Speaker 1: you know, at least in this funereal practice. So yeah,

458
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: as you say said, no details ever emerged. Where exactly

459
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 1: is he buried, We don't know. We've heard that he's

460
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 1: at the bottom of this river, right, sleeping with the fishes,

461
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 1: sleeping under the fishes technically, yeah, because the heavy coffin

462
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: would have sank, and quite possibly with untold treasures.

463
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, it does make you want to somehow find a

464
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 4: way to travel a river and just like with a

465
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 4: metal detector or something.

466
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 1: Heck, yeah, I love uncharted man untold treasures.

467
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: But let's speculate. You think there was some like nice

468
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,120
Speaker 2: neck pieces in there, some chains.

469
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 1: Weapons like is lucky not lucky, but you know, whatever's prized,

470
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: sword or spear or something. Yeah, probably varied in full armor, jewels,

471
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: quite possibly. Yeah, encrusted. I love it when things are encrusted.

472
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe worked, bone carved, boney stones, things like that. Yeah,

473
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:04,080
Speaker 1: maybe a bit. And beyond card, no, not good enough.

474
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 4: Can you imagine how much money until the hun or

475
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 4: Jakis Kahn or somebody would have on a bed bath

476
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 4: and beyond card.

477
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: I don't think they paid for things, Yeah, that's true.

478
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:19,800
Speaker 1: I think they would just ride the horse in and

479
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 1: go reeving. You know, wow, But who knows. Maybe if

480
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,280
Speaker 1: they had a coupon that would change it. Maybe if

481
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 1: they said, well, twenty percent off, it's virtually free.

482
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 4: Anyway, That's how we fix the world and stop everybody

483
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 4: from hurting each other and being so mad. Coupons build bad,

484
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 4: bath and beyond and just give everybody gift cards.

485
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 1: Oh man, I don't you know. I think I knock

486
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: that mail or that they send out just because it

487
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: is so ubiquitous, Like do you get them at your houses?

488
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:47,880
Speaker 4: Oh?

489
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah, I am a human being.

490
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: You have a bed, bath, and beyond.

491
00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 2: I've always wondered what the beyond. I guess beyond is

492
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 2: just all the non bed and bath related idea kitchen.

493
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it really depends on the intonation you use

494
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: when you hit the odd.

495
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 2: I think I've mentioned this before, but this is particularly

496
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 2: appropriate for this episode. In my hometown, there's a store

497
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: called Caskets and More.

498
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: Whoa, I remember that?

499
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, see, and it again.

500
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 1: It's the intonation.

501
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think with.

502
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: Caskets and More it's it's a little more sinister. I

503
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: love it though, And the fact that Attila the Hunt's

504
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 1: grave site is lost to history until somebody diverts a

505
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: river just to see what veracity there may be to

506
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 1: this story. Uh, that still hasn't stopped cities, villages, and

507
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: towns in the area from advertising themselves as the genuine

508
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,479
Speaker 1: location of the grave of Attila the Hunt. So if

509
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 1: you'd like to suspend your disbelief just a bit, feel

510
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: free to travel to Hungary and then snap a selfie

511
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: in front of any variety of here lies Untila the

512
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 1: Hunt signs. You know what I mean, I'm there, Yeah,

513
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: just point you know what they I just pointed a river.

514
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 2: Ah.

515
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: It's so it's so morbid. But if you think about it,

516
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: someone has died in every river on this planet. I

517
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,719
Speaker 1: hope I didn't just ruin rivers for everyone.

518
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 4: Yeah.

519
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: Maybe not every creek.

520
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, but every river. The water keeps flowing, So here

521
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 4: we go. That one doesn't bother me as much. Lakes still, though.

522
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: Lakes did You should ask Scott Benjamin about this before

523
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: we go to break. We did an episode years and

524
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 1: years back about how many cars have been found in

525
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 1: lakes when they dry up just even fifteen feet twenty

526
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,959
Speaker 1: feet from the shoreline. It's disturbing. It's way more than

527
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 1: you think, and just in the US, far far more.

528
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 4: All right, Well, let's go to the lake everybody. No,

529
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 4: you know, I don't want to go on a tangi,

530
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 4: but Lake Land ear up near where I grew up.

531
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 4: There's some there's some creek sepiness to that lake because

532
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 4: it's a man made it's all. You know, it was

533
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 4: flooded and everything.

534
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: There are no natural lakes in Georgia.

535
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and everyone talks about how there's supposedly a church

536
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 4: down there and everything, and there are all these legends

537
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 4: about what's at the bottom of this really murky, gross

538
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 4: looking lake. That is wonderful and I love Lake Laniar

539
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 4: and go visit if you get a chance. But it

540
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 4: just has this creepy quality to it.

541
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: But I believe there's some sand to that matt because

542
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 1: there were structures there that were flooded. That's a true story.

543
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, but some of it is a little far

544
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 4: fetched in my eyes. Even if you look back at

545
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,360
Speaker 4: the historical record, some of the things that come out

546
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 4: are pure legend. But they're fun.

547
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know what. Let's have a creepy

548
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: conversation about this off air while we're playing a word

549
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Okay, fine, No, that's fine. Yeah, yeah,

550
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 1: just agree to disagree.

551
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 4: I'm okay with that, all right.

552
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 2: No, I think you're both wrong.

553
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: Oh sorry, you had to see that. We have to

554
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:07,800
Speaker 1: remember that we're friends. We can't let these off air

555
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: conversations tear our friendship apart.

556
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 4: You're right, Let me apply a little bit more of

557
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 4: this here.

558
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: We go ahead, and we met some mats on death's

559
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,720
Speaker 2: door right now, and he's still here for you. Well,

560
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 2: by you, I mean you the listeners.

561
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: He reminds me in many ways of Sir Francis Drake.

562
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 4: Oh me too, I remind myself, I hope not.

563
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, who's other than reminding everyone vaguely of our

564
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: pal Matt Frederick. Who is Sir Francis Drake.

565
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 4: Well, he was this fifty six year old guy that

566
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 4: apparently unfortunately died. He was born in fifteen forty. He

567
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 4: lived until January twenty eighth, fifteen ninety six, and he

568
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 4: was an English explorer who was involved in things such

569
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 4: as you might know of piracy, elicit slave trading. He

570
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 4: also became the second person ever to circumnavigate the globe.

571
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 4: But his name when you hear sir Francis Drake. You

572
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 4: a lot of times, if you're not a big history buff,

573
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 4: you just imagine in my head this explorer. This I'm

574
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 4: speaking personally here because his name has been mentioned in

575
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 4: so many video games and all these things. But a

576
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 4: lot of times you don't get the context, the full

577
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 4: context at least of what somebody like this their life

578
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:24,800
Speaker 4: and what they did.

579
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, he did quite a bit. He sailed around the

580
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 1: globe when that was a big deal. Still is, yeah, right,

581
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: it still is. He was acquainted with the halls of power.

582
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: Is definitely not a not a great person, So don't

583
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: fall for a lot of the romanticization you may read

584
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: about Drake. His circumnavigation was also a pirate mission technically.

585
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, well in a way it almost kind of had

586
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 4: to be, in this weird and messed up way. But

587
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 4: I give that's the idea of I need to get supplies.

588
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 4: However I can get supplies.

589
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: Oh and this is good foreshadowing of what happens to

590
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:12,200
Speaker 1: him because his expedition was officially a journey for knowledge,

591
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 1: a voyage of discovery, but he also had a secret

592
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 1: agreement with Queen Elizabeth that along the way on this

593
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: quote unquote Voyage of Discovery. He would attack and assault

594
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: and terrorized the Spanish any way that he could, particularly

595
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: if it meant disrupting their shipping routes. So as soon

596
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: as they got into this Pacific, he almost made it

597
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:43,919
Speaker 1: more of a priority to plunder Spanish ships and rob

598
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: ports than he did to actually go all the way

599
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: around the world, and he stole a lot of stuff.

600
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,840
Speaker 1: He eventually returned home from that trip as the world's

601
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 1: most wealthy pirate.

602
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 4: He got night did too for his efforts, right by

603
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 4: the queen. Mm hmm.

604
00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: He got knighted as well, and the Spanish king put

605
00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 1: a massive price on his head from because from fifteen

606
00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: seventy until the end of his life, this guy's out

607
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:20,240
Speaker 1: to get the Spanish, and King Philip the Second offered

608
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: a bounty of twenty thousand ducats for his head that

609
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 1: was the equivalent of millions of dollars today. When he

610
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: came back from his worldwide piracy escapades, you're right, Matt,

611
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: he was knighted, and then in fifteen eighty eight he

612
00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: participated the English defeat of the Spanish Armada, and he

613
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: went on to become a tremendously influential figure in his

614
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: even in his own day. And then he died, and

615
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 1: that is where our story begins in fifteen ninety six.

616
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,439
Speaker 1: At least with this one, we do know how he died.

617
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: He died of dysentery. So no one's like secretly poisoned.

618
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: No one's like, uh, exploding blood face.

619
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 4: He went out Oregon trail style.

620
00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: He went out Oregon trail style. He did, he really did.

621
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: And he never got to Oregon, No, not without trying, though,

622
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: So what did they do? Because the Spanish were on

623
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 1: their backs. They hated this guy so much and for

624
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 1: very good reason that they were actively searching for his corpse.

625
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 2: Because they wanted to like do stuff to it.

626
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then get the bounty from King Philips. Bring him,

627
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 1: like bring him the head, but let's do some stuff

628
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 1: to it first.

629
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 2: Sure, so Drake had a burial at sea, as was

630
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: custom for a sailor type such as himself. He was

631
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 2: buried in a lead lined coffin near the Bay of

632
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 2: a Portobello, a few miles off the coastline. It is

633
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 2: supposed that his final resting place is near the wrecks

634
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 2: of two British ships, the Elizabeth and the Delight, which

635
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 2: scuttled in Portobello Bank.

636
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he was planning on this in advance. He said,

637
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: if I die, when I die, sink the ships sink

638
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,800
Speaker 1: me too. Bury me in a coffin in the dark

639
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,399
Speaker 1: depths of the ocean, because I do not want those

640
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: Spaniards to get their hands on me. He was also

641
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: buried in full armor for his request, because he really

642
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: did like His plan was that if these ships were

643
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: purposely scuttled, if he were buried at sea in a

644
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: leadline coffin to keep his remains from somehow rising right

645
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 1: as they decay and separate, that he would be able

646
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: to prevent the Spanish from finding and desecrating his remains.

647
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: And that was his genuine fear. Like have you ever

648
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: anyone listening, have you ever been at a point in

649
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: your life where you think there are people who are

650
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 1: interested enough in your death that they would desecrate your body.

651
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 2: I don't know.

652
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: That seems strange.

653
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 4: Yah, yeah, that's that's out there. But in his case, yeah,

654
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 4: people would definitely want to desegrate his body.

655
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: Like those people are living very high stakes lives.

656
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:18,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely. But yeah, I guess the whole point. I mean,

657
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 4: I didn't even realize that you could seal. I guess yeah,

658
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 4: it's obvious you could seal a coffin at that point

659
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 4: in time in history, a leadlined coffin actually get that

660
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 4: much of a seal where water isn't going to seep in,

661
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 4: where the weight is going to keep him at the bottom.

662
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 4: That's intense. Francis Drake, eancuse me, sir.

663
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 1: That's right. That man sailed around the world robbing people blind.

664
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: Can't forget about that. Fast forward to twenty eleven. There's

665
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: a guy who owns sports teams. He's also a pirate enthusiast.

666
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: He reads a book about Francis Drake and he says,

667
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm going to find this fleet and

668
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,440
Speaker 1: this guy's body. This pirate enthusiast and sports team owners

669
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:12,440
Speaker 1: named Pat Crochet like Jim Crochey, and he claimed that

670
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: he and a team of his treasure hunters had discovered

671
00:39:16,760 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 1: two ships off the coast of Panama, and the ships

672
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: that they found they believed to be the Elizabeth and

673
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: the Delight, which mentioned earlier in nol Elizabeth being one

674
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: hundred and ninety five ton ship and Delight being a

675
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 1: fifty ton ship. And as you know, most speculation places

676
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: Drake's body in Coffin somewhere in that area, and they

677
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: focused on Portobello Bay after they hired a guy named

678
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: Trevor mcgenry to pinpoint areas where the ships might have

679
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:53,760
Speaker 1: gone down. But very quickly they ran into a gray

680
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: area when it comes to the protection of British shipwrecks,

681
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,200
Speaker 1: when it comes to anything from the Age of Empire.

682
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 4: That's right. Under the Protection of Military Remains Act of

683
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 4: nineteen eighty six, British naval vessels anywhere in the world

684
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 4: are protected from exploitation. However, there's one little caveat here.

685
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 4: The Act only covers certain ships which sunk since nineteen fourteen,

686
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:20,440
Speaker 4: and only British citizens can be prosecuted under it, which

687
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,879
Speaker 4: is a bit of a problem. Not right there. So

688
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 4: there's a lot of history and ships that sailed before

689
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 4: nineteen fourteen, and if it's only British citizens, anybody else

690
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 4: who's outside coming in doesn't have to even worry about this.

691
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, So this is where they get to an interesting thing.

692
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: There's an organization called the Joint Nautical Archaeology Policy Committee

693
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 1: sexy name right is still my Heart, and they have

694
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 1: been pressing the United Kingdom's government for years to ratify

695
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,439
Speaker 1: some international agreements on the protection of what they would

696
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 1: call underwater cultural heritage, you know what I mean. So

697
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: the guy in charge of the Joint Nautical Archaeology Policy

698
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: Committee is a guy named Robert Yorke. I don't know

699
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: if he's a relation to Tom but he told the

700
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 1: BBC if these are Drake's ships, they are presumably sovereign

701
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: and immune. So why isn't the British government telling these

702
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: people to go away? If we ratify the convention, we

703
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,760
Speaker 1: can make sure they were properly conserved and looked after.

704
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 1: But Panama did ratify the convention, so its government might

705
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 1: act to protect the wrecks of the ship. And what

706
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 1: they mean when they say protect the wrect is not

707
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: to allow someone to attempt an excavation or to attempt

708
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 1: an analysis of this site just because they want to.

709
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:50,919
Speaker 1: You know, you have to have government approval, which can

710
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 1: be really, really difficult. As we saw in our previous

711
00:41:54,920 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: episode exploring the lives and burials of Neffertidy and Leopatra.

712
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: People in the modern day can at a very very

713
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 1: difficult time trying to get government approval for any ancient site.

714
00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 1: And it makes sense you don't want everybody to be

715
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: able to just go somewhere and start digging, right. And

716
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: as of this recording, it's weird because this was reported

717
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: in twenty eleven and we tried, but we couldn't find

718
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: much new information. So as of this recording, it appears

719
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: Drake's body has yet to surface and his secrets, whatever

720
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: they may be, remain safe in his watery grave.

721
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,319
Speaker 4: Just need somebody to go rogue and just go down

722
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,799
Speaker 4: there and find it, against all the government's wishes. Just

723
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 4: go and do it.

724
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: Nicholas Cage, Yes, we're.

725
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 4: Invoking you and or who else is famous for playing

726
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 4: like frogmen and the Navy seals and stuff. Oh, we

727
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 4: need the body, Ventura, that's who we need. See. Yeah,

728
00:42:57,960 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 4: we need Jesse to go down there.

729
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 2: And maybe Jason Statham can come the rock. We should

730
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 2: just assemble a crack team of action stars.

731
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 4: Just the expendables. Go find Sir Francis Drake. Please.

732
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: I would watch it. It'd be a different direction from them.

733
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 1: I would definitely watch it. And that's that's where the

734
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 1: story of Drake's body ends for now. But so far

735
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:29,280
Speaker 1: we have just been looking at the graves of famous dudes.

736
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: There is another mysterious lost grave here in the United States.

737
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,080
Speaker 1: In New England.

738
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's here's here's the broad Strokes. Mary Dyer I

739
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 2: was born Mary Barrett in sixteen eleven. She was an

740
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 2: English teacher and a Colonial American Puritan who became a

741
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 2: Quaker and who was hanged in the Boston, Massachusetts Bay

742
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 2: Colony for repeatedly defying a Puritan law that banned Quakers

743
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 2: from the colony. She is one of the four executed

744
00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 2: Quakers known as the Boston and Martyrs.

745
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 1: It's a true story. It might not be familiar to

746
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 1: a lot of people because she may not be famous

747
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: in the current celebrity sense. You know, she's not an

748
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:22,720
Speaker 1: Instagram right, But Mary Dyer was a tremendously important person

749
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 1: in the world of religious freedom during her lifetime. Her

750
00:44:26,719 --> 00:44:34,919
Speaker 1: sin was converting from Puritanism to Quakerism, primarily because of

751
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 1: these doctrinal differences. Quakers believe that people could interface directly

752
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 1: with God or hear directly from God without needing a

753
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 1: middle layer, an intermediary like a clergyman or something.

754
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,279
Speaker 4: It's funny, in twenty nineteen, that doesn't seem like that

755
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 4: big of a deal or that big of a difference.

756
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:00,520
Speaker 4: But my goodness, that is an entire paradigm shift for

757
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:06,200
Speaker 4: the power structure. Yeah oo right, dangerous for dangerous for

758
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 4: her mm hmmm.

759
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: And this, yeah, this was a huge idea. It threatened

760
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 1: the authority of the church leaders, and they they were

761
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: so threatened to this that they had already banned Quakers

762
00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:21,840
Speaker 1: from living in Massachusetts. Dyer went into exile and Rhode Island,

763
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,640
Speaker 1: but then she returned to Boston to support two friends

764
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 1: who were imprisoned for their beliefs. All three were sentenced

765
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,400
Speaker 1: to death, but then at the last moment they said, no,

766
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: you're just banished, get out of town, don't return, like

767
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:38,880
Speaker 1: the beginning of the Witch, except Mary Dyer came back

768
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: again speaking out for religious freedom. So she eventually was

769
00:45:44,680 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: put to death. She was hanged. She was buried in

770
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,439
Speaker 1: an unmarked plot in sixteen sixty and today we still

771
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: don't know where the grave is. Was she buried, as

772
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:59,080
Speaker 1: some had said in Boston commons. Was her body stolen

773
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 1: and in turned on a family farm. Was it put

774
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 1: to the wind?

775
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:08,280
Speaker 4: Nobody knows.

776
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:13,120
Speaker 1: Nobody knows. And then we have just one last thing.

777
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: This is the thing that I don't know about you guys,

778
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: It surprised me when I learned about it. Steve Jobs

779
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: is buried in an unmarked grave his family, and he

780
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: specifically requested it.

781
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 4: Now we can't.

782
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,919
Speaker 2: Worship him, No, you still can't.

783
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,160
Speaker 4: Oh look at my thing.

784
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 2: Just yeah, just we all worship him. We worship him constantly,

785
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 2: and we look at our phones all day long, and

786
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,720
Speaker 2: these are these laptops in front of us or our watches.

787
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: Well, it's the worry was that people would go to

788
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,839
Speaker 1: his grave and either maybe desecrate it or just try

789
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 1: to leave their own intrusive tributes. The thing is, this

790
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: isn't this is in Silicon Valley, So it's many people

791
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: feel that they have discovered the exact location, and they

792
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,839
Speaker 1: will swear it's confirmed it's a cemetery.

793
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 2: Do you think if they did give him a grave

794
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 2: it would have been made entirely of glass?

795
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:09,359
Speaker 1: I don't know, like like the Apple store.

796
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:10,600
Speaker 2: It would have looked like an Apple store.

797
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:16,360
Speaker 1: Oh maybe in a way. That's that's on brand. I

798
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: guess all right.

799
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 2: Steve Jobs and that guy certainly was an innovator. But

800
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 2: if you have you read any of some of his.

801
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: Quotes, terrible person seemed like a real, real terrible person.

802
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:30,120
Speaker 1: Really real meani uh falsely used handicap license that like

803
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 1: car tags too, so he could park in handicap spaces.

804
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,399
Speaker 4: I'm trying to provide a counterpoint somewhere in here.

805
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: Kids, he doesn't acknowledge.

806
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:46,759
Speaker 2: Steven kick puppies experience, right, was Wosniak Okay? Was he

807
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:47,240
Speaker 2: the nicer?

808
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 4: Yeah? Everybody's weird in their own way.

809
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,720
Speaker 1: I guess we'll do a show on Apple in the future.

810
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 1: Tell us yours Steve Jobs secrets, you know what else?

811
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,920
Speaker 2: Any what else? Everyone is in their own way? Matt Special,

812
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,320
Speaker 2: that's right, Special.

813
00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 4: I was going to bring up some mister Rogers.

814
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, now that's a serious rip Steve Jobs. I mean,

815
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 2: I like my iPhone, but I could take him or

816
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 2: leave the mister Rogers. That guy was a national treasure.

817
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, Fortunately we know mister Rogers the location of his

818
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 1: resting place for the rest of these and again, we've

819
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: just scratched the surface here. The question remains, will we

820
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: ever find any of these graves?

821
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 4: You know?

822
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: In some cases yeah, in other cases absolutely not, because

823
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: the people have been scattered into the wind, their remains

824
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,240
Speaker 1: have been made into buttons, their remains have been stolen

825
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,319
Speaker 1: by secret societies. That is true again check out episode one.

826
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:49,840
Speaker 1: But we have to end on some questions. You know,

827
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,560
Speaker 1: we asked these earlier. What benefits do these searches have

828
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: for modern human civilization? Is this a waste of money?

829
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:59,280
Speaker 1: Should we focus on feeding the people who are starving

830
00:48:59,320 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: to death?

831
00:48:59,719 --> 00:48:59,919
Speaker 2: Now?

832
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: Those are loaded questions, I know, I know, or because

833
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 1: we can spend it the other way? Or are we

834
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:10,480
Speaker 1: investing in the future by learning more about the past.

835
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 1: Those are very I think they're both very strong arguments.

836
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 2: Sure, I asked this question. We did the gengis Con episode.

837
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 2: It feels to me very much like a waste of time,

838
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 2: like who cares? But then you pointed out very correctly, Ben,

839
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 2: that it does. There are artifacts that could teach us

840
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 2: things about the past that are there to be discovered potentially.

841
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 2: I was more hung up on the idea of having

842
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 2: to know, having to have the answers and understand, you know,

843
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:38,200
Speaker 2: be in control in some way.

844
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 4: But I see both sides. I think you guys are

845
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 4: forgetting about all the gold. There's a lot of gold, ducats,

846
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 4: silver buried under these rivers and next to the ships.

847
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 4: We got to find that gold. Maybe the heart of

848
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 4: the ocean is down there.

849
00:49:55,239 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe Orde la maire, Well don't. I don't lose hope, though,

850
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,280
Speaker 1: because as for the odds of findings long forgotten resting

851
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: places and these corpses that have disappeared, we can end

852
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 1: on a somewhat less bleak note. We do find these things.

853
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 1: I can't believe I've forgot to mention this last episode.

854
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 1: We recently discovered another famous royal body, King Richard II

855
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,799
Speaker 1: himself the Hunchback of Shakespearean fame. His body was lost

856
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,800
Speaker 1: to antiquity until twenty twelve when somebody found it underneath

857
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 1: a parking lot.

858
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 4: It's that's not a joke, that's not kidding. Yeah, that's real.

859
00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 1: That's real. He also didn't really have a hunchback.

860
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, this kind of thing has occurred a couple of times,

861
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 4: not necessarily with a king over someone of this statue,

862
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 4: but an interesting unmarked grave that was found underneath a

863
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 4: building somewhere where there's just been a building for a

864
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 4: couple of decades and it just happened to get cemented over,

865
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 4: you know whatever case bricked over or wooded over.

866
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: Wood it over, paved over, bricked over whatever it is

867
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 1: built a top. Yeah, and this is in a way

868
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 1: an inspiring and optimistic thing. We want to hear your

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00:51:18,840 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: stories and we want to hear what your take is.

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00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:24,279
Speaker 1: Is this worthwhile? Is this waste of time? There is

871
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: clearly more out there. What are some of the mysteries

872
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,600
Speaker 1: maybe in your neck of the global woods? Or if

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00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: you were a treasure hunter, an adventurer and archaeologist, what

874
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:41,200
Speaker 1: would be your number one quest? What would be your

875
00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 1: Oak Island money pit for instance? And why? You can

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00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 1: let us know on Facebook at our community page. Here's

877
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:50,879
Speaker 1: where it gets crazy when you where you can talk

878
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 1: to the best part of this show, your fellow listeners.

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00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 1: You can also follow us on Instagram. You can follow

880
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 1: me personally on Instagram at ben Bowl or you.

881
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,800
Speaker 2: Can follow me at Embryonic Insider. I think Matt chooses

882
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 2: to stay off the personal gram that's correct, and our

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00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 2: show Instagram is at Conspiracy Stuff Show.

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00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 4: And that's the end of this classic episode. If you

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00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:17,680
Speaker 4: have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can

886
00:52:17,719 --> 00:52:20,320
Speaker 4: get into contact with us in a number of different ways.

887
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 4: One of the best is to give us a call.

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00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 4: Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK. If you

889
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:28,839
Speaker 4: don't want to do that, you can send us a

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00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 4: good old fashioned email.

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00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

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00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 4: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

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00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 4: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:44,240
Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.