WEBVTT - How Microchips Are Made

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<v Speaker 1>Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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<v Speaker 1>It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology with

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<v Speaker 1>tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello again, everyone,

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<v Speaker 1>welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Boulette and

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<v Speaker 1>I am an editor here in how stuff works dot Com.

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<v Speaker 1>Sitting across from me cracking up at my goofiness is

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<v Speaker 1>senior writer Jonathan Strickland. Seriously, guys, if you could hear

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<v Speaker 1>our pre show and post shows, you would you would

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<v Speaker 1>just you would think that the goofy stuff we do

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<v Speaker 1>during the show is nothing in embarrasson nothing. Yeah, let's

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<v Speaker 1>turn this episode off with a little oh listener mail.

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<v Speaker 1>This listener mail comes from Jacob a k. A. Booger,

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<v Speaker 1>and Jacob gave himself that name. I'm catching up to

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<v Speaker 1>the present day podcasts and them on USB versus FireWire,

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<v Speaker 1>and I still haven't heard you guys mentioned a m

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<v Speaker 1>D yet. Please talk about them since I think they're

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<v Speaker 1>better than Intel in more than a few ways. Thanks

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<v Speaker 1>Jacob Booger, Well Booger, we thought we'd talked a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit about kind of microchips in general and how they're made. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>we don't tend to to break things down to company

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<v Speaker 1>by company. But of course Intel on a m D

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<v Speaker 1>are both known for their microchip architecture. Yeah they uh.

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<v Speaker 1>For the uninitiated, these two are pretty much the big

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<v Speaker 1>guys in the computer segments like the personal computer. Intel

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<v Speaker 1>an m D are wrestling back and forth with one

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<v Speaker 1>another on a day to day basis. Now, there are

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<v Speaker 1>lots and lots and lots and lots of other companies

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<v Speaker 1>who make microprocessors of different kinds. Right, Let's let's be fair. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>when you say wrestling, Intel's kind of the enormous sumo

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<v Speaker 1>wrestler and a m D is like the luchador. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>but that doesn't necessarily mean that in this case the

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<v Speaker 1>luchador is you know, a lesser. Oh no, no no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just saying by market share, okay, yes, by market share, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>until has the the lion's share of the market. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>But there there are many many other microprocessor manufacturers out there, um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, some of whom are limiting their their work

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<v Speaker 1>to one or you know, one or two different products.

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<v Speaker 1>You can find microprocessors and just about everything anything that

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<v Speaker 1>that's electronic these days, because we've come to roll eye

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<v Speaker 1>on them. Yeah, we also had another listener asked us

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<v Speaker 1>about microchips, and I would like to apologize to that

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<v Speaker 1>listener because I could not find your email and or tweet. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>I know that you sent it to me. And so

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<v Speaker 1>we wanted and this listener wanted to know what microchips were,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, what they did and how they were made.

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<v Speaker 1>And so we were going to kind of talk about

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of of what they do, but not

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<v Speaker 1>a whole lot because we've talked about it before. But uh,

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<v Speaker 1>a microchip. You know, when you hear that term, you

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<v Speaker 1>might think, well, what the heck is that. Technically it's

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<v Speaker 1>an integrated circuit. Yes, that's what a microchip is. And

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<v Speaker 1>so if you remember when we talked about the basics

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<v Speaker 1>of electronics and electronic theory, a circuit is a pathway

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<v Speaker 1>for electrons to flow through, Yes, and of course the

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<v Speaker 1>flow of electrons we know better as electricity. At least

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<v Speaker 1>that's the current definition. Oh my gosh, I totally forgot

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<v Speaker 1>that we went down that road last time. Alright, So, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>a circuit is a pathway for electricity. Integrated circuit is

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<v Speaker 1>a special kind of circuit. Now, let's let's I guess

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<v Speaker 1>you want to are we gonna take the way back

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<v Speaker 1>machine here, or you want to just talk about the past. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>we could just talk about the past, all right. So

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think anybody gassed up the way back, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I think, well, right, yeah, I I noticed the last

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<v Speaker 1>time I was pulling the cord, it wasn't really it

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't really starting up the way you would expect it to.

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<v Speaker 1>So anyway, back in the day, the day being a

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<v Speaker 1>long time ago. Uh, circuits were much larger than they

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<v Speaker 1>are today. Um, they you could actually see each of

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<v Speaker 1>the discrete elements pretty clearly because it was all on

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<v Speaker 1>a much larger scale. And we're going all the way

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<v Speaker 1>back to vacuum tubes here talking about So vacuum tubes

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<v Speaker 1>acted the way transistors do. Now, so let's let's talk

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit about what exactly they did. The whole

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<v Speaker 1>purpose of it was to control the flow of electricity.

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<v Speaker 1>It would be to allow electricity to flow through that

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<v Speaker 1>part of the circuit, and you could even use it

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<v Speaker 1>to amplify the electricity if you needed to. Okay, you're

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<v Speaker 1>just staring at me now. I wasn't planning on talking

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<v Speaker 1>about vacuum tubes, so I didn't at any rate, Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>The problem with vacuum tubes is they were really big

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<v Speaker 1>and they produced a lot of heat. They do produce

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of heat. I can tell you that right now.

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<v Speaker 1>I have a a beaten up old amplifier that uses

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<v Speaker 1>vacuum tubes. And not only do they produce a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of heat, they're really heavy and unwieldy because they take

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<v Speaker 1>up a lot of space. Yes, so those are all problems, right,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you've got it, produces a lot of heat,

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<v Speaker 1>takes up a lot of space, and they're really heavy.

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<v Speaker 1>So the early computers were these enormous machines that generated

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<v Speaker 1>uh so much heat that it was hard to be

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<v Speaker 1>in the same room as them. Um, of course, it's

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<v Speaker 1>hard to be in the same room anyway, because they

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much took up an entire room. Well, but it

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<v Speaker 1>this way. You're not going to see a vacuum tube

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<v Speaker 1>powered iPod anytime soon because they take up a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of space, right, So you can't put that in your pocket, Yeah, no,

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<v Speaker 1>you can't that. And and in fact, the development of

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<v Speaker 1>the semiconductor was what led to you know, transistor radios,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's when we started getting a lot of portable

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<v Speaker 1>electronics because it was possible to to throw a portable

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<v Speaker 1>radio in your pocket instead of you know, having to

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<v Speaker 1>deal with the one that was plugged in you know,

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<v Speaker 1>at home, on on the desk, right, the one that

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<v Speaker 1>was almost the same size as the desk it was

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<v Speaker 1>on the Yeah. So, so vacuum tubes were limiting us

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<v Speaker 1>quite a bit, uh because of their size, because they

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<v Speaker 1>would also burn out, and if one burnt out, that

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<v Speaker 1>meant that your whole system was no longer working and

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<v Speaker 1>you would have to replace the burnt out tube. So

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<v Speaker 1>we needed to find something that was smaller, generated less heat,

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<v Speaker 1>was more reliable, and that ended up being the transistor. Now, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>that was invented back in It would still be quite

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<v Speaker 1>a while before we got transistors small enough to put

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<v Speaker 1>them on like a circuit board. The earliest transistors were

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<v Speaker 1>actually pretty large. Um. And then even then, you're still

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<v Speaker 1>talking about a bunch of discrete elements that you wired

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<v Speaker 1>together to create a circuit. Yeah right, So yeah, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>if you've done this, you might have a physics classes

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<v Speaker 1>you've done where you've created an electric circuit this way,

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<v Speaker 1>where you know, you're using wires to connect various elements

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<v Speaker 1>together and then you hook it up to a battery.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you haven't, you should because it's a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of fun. It's a good learning experience. But that's an aside, right,

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<v Speaker 1>so the sorry, yeah, I know, now I'm throwing off

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<v Speaker 1>down like okay with notes notes, So let's talk about

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<v Speaker 1>the complex circuits here. Um, there was an issue called

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<v Speaker 1>the tyranny of numbers. The tyranny of numbers? Have you

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<v Speaker 1>heard about this? Wasn't that a mystery novel? Uh? No? Not? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean I'm gonna say no, it could be true.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna write it if there wasn't one. Right, now,

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<v Speaker 1>here's the here's the definition. Advanced circuits contained so many

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<v Speaker 1>components and connections they were virtually impossible to build. This

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<v Speaker 1>problem was known as the tyranny of number burrs. So that,

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<v Speaker 1>in other words, we get to a point where we

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<v Speaker 1>can build circuits, right, but in order to build them

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<v Speaker 1>at the complexity that we need, the tools we have

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<v Speaker 1>are two crude, right, using it, building it by hand.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just there's no way you can have the level

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<v Speaker 1>of precision you need in order to build a circuit

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<v Speaker 1>that's small. What could possibly be the solution to the

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<v Speaker 1>tyranny of numbers problem? Let's see I've mentioned it before already,

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<v Speaker 1>the integrated circuit. Just say the integrated circuit. Okay, the

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<v Speaker 1>integrated circuit. Very good. So in nineteen fifty eight, you've

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<v Speaker 1>got Jack Kilby. Yes, and Kilby was working at Texas Instruments,

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<v Speaker 1>one of those aforementioned companies that makes lots and lots

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<v Speaker 1>of different kinds of microprocessors. That's correct. And Kilby at

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<v Speaker 1>the time was brand new to the company. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>he'd only been working there for a little while and

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<v Speaker 1>had not earned any vacation yet. So there was a

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<v Speaker 1>point where pretty much everyone went on vacation except for Kilby,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was left there pondering the tyranny of numbers problem,

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<v Speaker 1>and he came up with this idea. He thought, well,

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<v Speaker 1>what if you were to build an entire circuit out

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<v Speaker 1>of one piece of material, and you would essentially carve

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<v Speaker 1>out the different elements that you would need out of

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<v Speaker 1>that material, overlay it with some metal to be the connectors,

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<v Speaker 1>and then you would have an entire circuit printed more

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<v Speaker 1>or less on one single piece and you wouldn't have

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<v Speaker 1>to build the individual elements. That was the idea behind

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<v Speaker 1>the integrated circuit. I apologize, so Essentially he found a

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<v Speaker 1>way to make the whole thing fit in a much

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<v Speaker 1>more compact space. Right, and by using this method of

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<v Speaker 1>carving away from a single elements a single chip, really

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<v Speaker 1>you could make the different individual um parts of the

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<v Speaker 1>circuit much much smaller than you could before. Um. Which

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<v Speaker 1>is good because it has led to lots and lots

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<v Speaker 1>of very very small devices. Well this is this is yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>this is what eventually led up to Gordon Moore taking

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<v Speaker 1>a look at the number of transistors uh that engineers

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<v Speaker 1>were able to fit onto a single one inch diameter

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<v Speaker 1>chip and say, look every at the time, I think

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<v Speaker 1>it was every twelve months, they were doubling, although of

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<v Speaker 1>course today we talked about it being every two years.

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<v Speaker 1>Um Gordon, So Moore's law has slowed down over time,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's still you're still talking about doubling over a

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<v Speaker 1>set time limit, which is pretty amazing because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>we're in the we're in the billions now. So um

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<v Speaker 1>so how well, first of all, we I guess we

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<v Speaker 1>should talk about the material they use to build these chips.

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<v Speaker 1>Its silicon. Yes, it's not just silicon, it's extremely pure

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<v Speaker 1>silicon YEP. As a matter of fact, when I was

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<v Speaker 1>doing research on this. I found a video by a

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<v Speaker 1>different part of our company. The Science Channel did a

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<v Speaker 1>piece on silicon and it's it's um really fascinating what

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<v Speaker 1>they do because they have to to melt down lumps

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<v Speaker 1>of the material to to get you know, basically to

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<v Speaker 1>reform it in the shape that they need for microprocessors.

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<v Speaker 1>But it has to be extremely pure, so they have

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<v Speaker 1>to clear out the chamber chamber with argonne gas to

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<v Speaker 1>make sure that there's no air in there at all,

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<v Speaker 1>melted down and then uh, they create essentially what looks

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<v Speaker 1>like a giant silicon pencil. Yeah, it's a big cylinder

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<v Speaker 1>cylinder of silicon, and then they put the cylinder through Um, well,

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<v Speaker 1>they use they use a very fine wire to cut wafers. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>it's water thin, Yes it is. As a matter of fact,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's just a few millimeters thick each each layer,

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<v Speaker 1>right and and um, so there they cut these these

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<v Speaker 1>slices off and each slice becomes its own the owner,

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<v Speaker 1>its own silicon wafer that you used to imprint uh,

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<v Speaker 1>circuitry onto and you could end up using one wafer

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<v Speaker 1>to produce dozens and dozens of chips. Yes, it's a

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<v Speaker 1>matter of fact, every once in a while you'll see

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<v Speaker 1>a picture in the news of some dignitary visiting a

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<v Speaker 1>computer plant and they'll hold up a what looks like

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<v Speaker 1>a giant disk and you're going, wait a minute, that's

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<v Speaker 1>way too big to fit in my computer. Well, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>this is. This is a cross section of that giant

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<v Speaker 1>cylinder imprinted with in general and one the ones I've seen.

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<v Speaker 1>When they show where they're holding it up there, you

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<v Speaker 1>can see that there's something etched on on the silicon. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>those are all the different individual chips or what would

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<v Speaker 1>become chips if they were you know, uncontaminated by whoever

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<v Speaker 1>it is holding it up right at the at the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the process, once everything's been printed, you you

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<v Speaker 1>chop that wafer into the various, uh, actual individual chips.

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<v Speaker 1>Shop I mean you actually use a very fine saw.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a diamond saw as a matter of fact, that

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<v Speaker 1>they used to cut the uh, the slice of silicon

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<v Speaker 1>up into lots and lots of little chips. But we've

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<v Speaker 1>we've left out stuff all right, So well, the process

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<v Speaker 1>is known as photolithography, and it's been in use for

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<v Speaker 1>several years several by several, I mean many, it's actually

0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:18.720
<v Speaker 1>kind of a it's really a neat neat idea. All right,

0:13:18.760 --> 0:13:21.120
<v Speaker 1>so let's let's start with you've got your your silicon

0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:23.920
<v Speaker 1>um also, well, well we'll go ahead and say where

0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:29.480
<v Speaker 1>the stuff takes place, because we're talking about elements on

0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:33.040
<v Speaker 1>these chips that are just a few nnometers in width.

0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.280
<v Speaker 1>So any kind of impurity, any mode of dust that

0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.560
<v Speaker 1>got on this thing is going to ruin it. A

0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.360
<v Speaker 1>mode of dust would be enormous compared to one of

0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:45.199
<v Speaker 1>the transistors on these chips. Exactly. Yeah, so you can't

0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:48.240
<v Speaker 1>have any sort of of dust in there. Well, think

0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:52.120
<v Speaker 1>about your environment for a second. Uh, just the dust

0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:54.680
<v Speaker 1>in the air alone in your environment right now, unless

0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:57.719
<v Speaker 1>you're in a clean room, is gonna be way too

0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:01.840
<v Speaker 1>much to ever try and produce. Use a microchip, ye,

0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:05.520
<v Speaker 1>so at least one that will function. Right, And we're humans.

0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.480
<v Speaker 1>We give off lots of lots of dust. Dead skin

0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:12.000
<v Speaker 1>cells have tons of dust every day if you look

0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:15.880
<v Speaker 1>at the entire human population, literally tons of dust. So

0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:21.360
<v Speaker 1>the these clean rooms can't have that. They don't have

0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:23.360
<v Speaker 1>the luxury of being able to have that sort of

0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:26.200
<v Speaker 1>dust flying around. So in order to prevent it, they

0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.760
<v Speaker 1>have massive air conditioning systems that circulate the air in

0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:32.280
<v Speaker 1>these these clean rooms. These clean rooms can be enormous,

0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:35.040
<v Speaker 1>by the way, like the size of a warehouse, but

0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:37.960
<v Speaker 1>in most of them, the air conditioning system is so

0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.160
<v Speaker 1>powerful that it can completely circulate all the air in

0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:46.200
<v Speaker 1>that room under ten minutes. It's pretty impressive. And uh,

0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:50.520
<v Speaker 1>this is where Intel's famous bunny suit campaign came from.

0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:55.120
<v Speaker 1>Back in the sadly, not the kind of bunny suit

0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.800
<v Speaker 1>I was thinking. No, no, the bunny and the bunny

0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.840
<v Speaker 1>suits are actually they they look like they're in some

0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:04.400
<v Speaker 1>sort of high tech firefighting gear because their suits that

0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:06.360
<v Speaker 1>they wear where they have hoods over their heads with

0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:10.000
<v Speaker 1>a visor in them, and this basically keeps dust out

0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:11.440
<v Speaker 1>of the air by you know if you see in

0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.600
<v Speaker 1>the humans. But yeah, it keeps it inside the suit.

0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:17.840
<v Speaker 1>The humans then they can't shed inside the clean rooms. Yeah,

0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:20.360
<v Speaker 1>and I remember in that video you were referencing, they

0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:22.360
<v Speaker 1>actually talk about how the air in these rooms is

0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.760
<v Speaker 1>cleaner than the air you'll find in hospitals. That doesn't

0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.680
<v Speaker 1>surprise because of the way, the speed and the filters

0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:33.520
<v Speaker 1>that they use. So we've got this this uh environment

0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.440
<v Speaker 1>that is it's not dust free because you're never gonna

0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:39.200
<v Speaker 1>get that unless you're in a complete vacuum. Um. But

0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:41.680
<v Speaker 1>it's about as limited as you possibly can be and

0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.520
<v Speaker 1>still be on on earth. Uh. Now, let's talk about

0:15:45.560 --> 0:15:48.680
<v Speaker 1>the actual process of photolithography. Yeah, but as we get

0:15:48.680 --> 0:15:51.560
<v Speaker 1>into this, you're gonna see that we have improved on

0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:54.640
<v Speaker 1>Dr Kilby's process. I'm assuming he is a doctor. I

0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:58.200
<v Speaker 1>didn't see that part on the engineer at any rate. Yeah,

0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:04.600
<v Speaker 1>on Kilby's process for creating microprocessor micro microchips. Because this

0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:08.200
<v Speaker 1>is a very very sophisticated way of doing it. Right.

0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:12.720
<v Speaker 1>So you start with your your pure silicon uh wafer, Yes,

0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:17.400
<v Speaker 1>that you have sliced off of the the whole uh cylinder.

0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:20.800
<v Speaker 1>Then the next thing you need to do is you

0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:25.160
<v Speaker 1>need to uh create a mask. Now, the mask is

0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:27.680
<v Speaker 1>and this is not in all forms of lithography, but

0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:31.760
<v Speaker 1>we'll get into that. The mask is essentially a pattern. Yes, right,

0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:34.440
<v Speaker 1>it's the pattern. It's what the chip is supposed to

0:16:34.440 --> 0:16:37.320
<v Speaker 1>look like at the end. If you if you've ever

0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.960
<v Speaker 1>worked in photography and uh with film, not with with

0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.720
<v Speaker 1>the with the digital camera, and you are trying to

0:16:44.640 --> 0:16:47.880
<v Speaker 1>make part of the picture a little darker when you're

0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:52.240
<v Speaker 1>developing it, you would hold up something basically to block

0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:56.480
<v Speaker 1>the light from getting to that part of the uh,

0:16:56.560 --> 0:16:59.400
<v Speaker 1>to the photosensitive paper. Well that's basically what the mask

0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:03.840
<v Speaker 1>is is blocking light from a very high energy ultra

0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:08.920
<v Speaker 1>violet source which is going to shine onto the silicon wafer. Uh,

0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:11.800
<v Speaker 1>and the mask is blocking that. Now why would we

0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.439
<v Speaker 1>do this, Well, it's because the silicon is not just

0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:18.200
<v Speaker 1>silicon at that point. They have also overlaid on top

0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:23.040
<v Speaker 1>of that a piece of uh, photosensitive film right right,

0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.119
<v Speaker 1>So you've got this, You put the photos intoitive film

0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.040
<v Speaker 1>on top of the wafer, and then you've got this uh,

0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:34.400
<v Speaker 1>this mask that ah that ultraviolet light shines through. When

0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:38.199
<v Speaker 1>the ultraviolet light contacts the wafer, like, there's gonna be

0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:40.520
<v Speaker 1>some parts that the mask blocks in, some parts that

0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:42.880
<v Speaker 1>the mask lets through, right right, So the parts where

0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:45.880
<v Speaker 1>the mask let's through the light, the light hits the wafer.

0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:49.240
<v Speaker 1>And when you when you are finished with this first

0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:53.240
<v Speaker 1>process and you wash the film uh away, the it

0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:56.680
<v Speaker 1>takes anything that that the light has contacted gets essentially

0:17:56.680 --> 0:18:00.400
<v Speaker 1>carved away. Well, basically what happens is that the high

0:18:00.680 --> 0:18:04.760
<v Speaker 1>energy ultraviolet light causes that film to break up, you

0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:08.440
<v Speaker 1>know it, Uh, the film doesn't react to the light

0:18:08.720 --> 0:18:10.879
<v Speaker 1>very well. So that's the point. They wash it with

0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:15.840
<v Speaker 1>water and that washes away the broken away bits, but

0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:17.960
<v Speaker 1>you still have that protective film on the places where

0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:20.600
<v Speaker 1>the light didn't touch because of the mask. Well right, right, yeah,

0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.720
<v Speaker 1>I worded it incorrectly. Well no, no, no, I was

0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:29.280
<v Speaker 1>just clarifying. And then um, they once they rinse that away,

0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.199
<v Speaker 1>they bake it. Then they use a process called etching,

0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:37.480
<v Speaker 1>in which they use chemicals to dissolve the remaining protective film.

0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:42.920
<v Speaker 1>Uh to Basically, you know, now you have just the

0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:47.440
<v Speaker 1>etched wafer of silicon, right, so are film there and

0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:49.680
<v Speaker 1>and also and also the stuff that was no longer

0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:51.720
<v Speaker 1>covered by the film which had been you know, the

0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.560
<v Speaker 1>film got zapped away wherever the light touched it. Yes,

0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:57.719
<v Speaker 1>that gets etched away. Yes, so that's where you've actually

0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:01.840
<v Speaker 1>carved away the the material. What's left standing is the

0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:05.320
<v Speaker 1>stuff that was not touched by the light. That's just

0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:08.960
<v Speaker 1>one round. You may have to do this dozens of

0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.600
<v Speaker 1>times before you have actually carved out all the elements

0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:16.520
<v Speaker 1>on your your your circuit. So well, there's another part

0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:18.719
<v Speaker 1>of the process to the doping part, in which they

0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:22.200
<v Speaker 1>change the electrical properties of the silicon. Right, doping means

0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:26.679
<v Speaker 1>that you are purposefully introducing impurities into the material in

0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:30.000
<v Speaker 1>order to change it's it's um well, the way it

0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:34.639
<v Speaker 1>what either conducts or insulates. I mean, that's that's what

0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:38.200
<v Speaker 1>a semiconductor is. Under certain circumstances that can conduct electricity

0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.439
<v Speaker 1>and others it does not, right, and where it can

0:19:40.440 --> 0:19:43.760
<v Speaker 1>conduct some electric electricity, but a not at a rapid

0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:47.280
<v Speaker 1>rate as rapid as it was maybe at just certain temperatures.

0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:50.280
<v Speaker 1>So again, this all depends upon the impurities that you

0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:53.080
<v Speaker 1>introduce into it. So at the base you have to

0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.720
<v Speaker 1>have the pure system so that it doesn't conduct electricity

0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:58.720
<v Speaker 1>at all. Otherwise you do you have a chip that's

0:19:58.760 --> 0:20:02.960
<v Speaker 1>not gonna work. Again, the ultimate goal here is to

0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:05.480
<v Speaker 1>be able to direct the flow of electrons in a

0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:07.840
<v Speaker 1>very specific way, and of course if your entire chip

0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:10.840
<v Speaker 1>does that, If it doesn't, it's it's not specific at

0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:16.200
<v Speaker 1>that point, and so you'd have a broken chip. So um, they,

0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.639
<v Speaker 1>as Jonathan pointed out a moment ago, they continue to

0:20:19.640 --> 0:20:22.680
<v Speaker 1>do this layer by layer by layers, so that um,

0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.800
<v Speaker 1>again you're taking up less space because you have layers

0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.239
<v Speaker 1>of material on top of one another, which you know

0:20:30.280 --> 0:20:32.879
<v Speaker 1>there it's no longer and no longer requires it to

0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:35.399
<v Speaker 1>take up so much physical space because it's all basically

0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:38.840
<v Speaker 1>sandwiched on top of one another. But then there's the

0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:43.960
<v Speaker 1>the metallization process, right, so you've carved away everything that

0:20:44.040 --> 0:20:47.040
<v Speaker 1>doesn't need to be there. It's kind of like a sculptor. Yeah,

0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:49.639
<v Speaker 1>it didn't carve everything away that doesn't look like a circuit.

0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:53.840
<v Speaker 1>Very nice, it's essentially that's what how it works. I'm

0:20:53.880 --> 0:20:56.439
<v Speaker 1>on board with that. But again it's on an incredibly

0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:58.359
<v Speaker 1>tiny level. And the reason it can be so tiny,

0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:00.879
<v Speaker 1>you know, we've talked about before that the nano scales

0:21:00.920 --> 0:21:03.760
<v Speaker 1>so small that you cannot view it through a light microscope. Yes,

0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.439
<v Speaker 1>well that's because they're not using the way they can

0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:08.760
<v Speaker 1>get at a small as. They're not using visible light. Again,

0:21:08.800 --> 0:21:12.640
<v Speaker 1>they're using ultra violet light. Yes, and in fact, Intel

0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:17.959
<v Speaker 1>uses um is using a process called extreme ultra violet

0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:22.080
<v Speaker 1>lithography in their latest processors, which are the ones that

0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:26.240
<v Speaker 1>have like the thirty two nnometer transistors, which is crazy.

0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:31.320
<v Speaker 1>I figured they were building microchips sliding downhill on a

0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:38.760
<v Speaker 1>street luge and that's not extreme, not that extreme. Yeah,

0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:40.879
<v Speaker 1>it's not gonna be in the X games. But so

0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:44.400
<v Speaker 1>the motalization, this is where you've built all these elements

0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:47.399
<v Speaker 1>by carving away the stuff that doesn't belong, but you

0:21:47.440 --> 0:21:50.880
<v Speaker 1>still have to connect them together, right, you know, this

0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:52.960
<v Speaker 1>is normally where you would be building wires. Well, the

0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:57.040
<v Speaker 1>way they build wires and uh in these transistor or

0:21:57.080 --> 0:21:59.960
<v Speaker 1>in these uh these circuits, it's actually kind of similar

0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:03.040
<v Speaker 1>to the process we just described, except what they do

0:22:03.119 --> 0:22:07.680
<v Speaker 1>is they put a layer of metal UM on top

0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.760
<v Speaker 1>of the wafer and then again you put the this uh,

0:22:10.840 --> 0:22:13.920
<v Speaker 1>this UV sensitive photo resist on top of that metal,

0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:18.480
<v Speaker 1>and you have another mask. This mask is going to

0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:22.720
<v Speaker 1>block out all the places that where hiring actually blocks

0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:27.679
<v Speaker 1>out the places where you do want wiring, right, so

0:22:27.760 --> 0:22:31.480
<v Speaker 1>you want the places you want protected. Yeah, so it'll

0:22:31.520 --> 0:22:34.000
<v Speaker 1>block it'll block light. Wherever it blocks light, that's where

0:22:34.000 --> 0:22:35.920
<v Speaker 1>a wire is going to be. Wherever light comes through,

0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:38.960
<v Speaker 1>that's gonna carve away this metal. So again you go

0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:42.960
<v Speaker 1>through another process where you run it through the system.

0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:46.520
<v Speaker 1>The light ends up hitting the certain the designated areas

0:22:46.600 --> 0:22:49.280
<v Speaker 1>on the wafer UM and that ends up going to

0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:53.760
<v Speaker 1>that's gonna end up breaking down the metal so that

0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:56.240
<v Speaker 1>you are left with just the wires that you want

0:22:56.680 --> 0:22:59.800
<v Speaker 1>you've carved away everything you don't want again, you may

0:22:59.840 --> 0:23:02.720
<v Speaker 1>have to do this process several times because in order

0:23:02.760 --> 0:23:05.000
<v Speaker 1>to get all the connections you need, Um, you may

0:23:05.040 --> 0:23:08.000
<v Speaker 1>need to do several layers on wires up to I

0:23:08.000 --> 0:23:12.520
<v Speaker 1>think five I think was the last I had read, right,

0:23:13.400 --> 0:23:18.840
<v Speaker 1>But um, it's again very similar to the lithography process

0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:22.960
<v Speaker 1>of actually carving out the chip itself. Yep, and uh

0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:27.160
<v Speaker 1>see there. This is all very cool and it has

0:23:27.240 --> 0:23:30.320
<v Speaker 1>led to a number of you know, all kinds of

0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:33.720
<v Speaker 1>different chips that are getting smaller and smaller and allowing

0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:38.399
<v Speaker 1>Moore's law to continue more or less, except you know,

0:23:38.600 --> 0:23:41.840
<v Speaker 1>for the laws of physics, which makes things different difficults. Well,

0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:44.360
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's already made things difficult because remember when

0:23:44.359 --> 0:23:47.199
<v Speaker 1>I mentioned the extreme ultra violet lithography, Yes, I do

0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:49.200
<v Speaker 1>ever mentioned I remember when you mentioned that, because it

0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:52.200
<v Speaker 1>was just like three minutes ago or something, so here

0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:54.760
<v Speaker 1>was here was a barrier they that Intel had to

0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:56.879
<v Speaker 1>find a way. And I know that I'm probably ticking

0:23:56.880 --> 0:23:58.879
<v Speaker 1>off our our listener who wanted to hear about a

0:23:58.960 --> 0:24:02.560
<v Speaker 1>m D and not Intel. But um, Intel had a

0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:06.400
<v Speaker 1>problem when they were going to switch to EUV and

0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:11.440
<v Speaker 1>it's it's just one of those fundamental things. The wavelength

0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:15.200
<v Speaker 1>that they are using, the eu V wavelength is at

0:24:15.280 --> 0:24:20.080
<v Speaker 1>thirteen point foreign denomenas. Okay, at that size, that is

0:24:20.119 --> 0:24:26.840
<v Speaker 1>so small that practically every material absorbs it. So if

0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:28.880
<v Speaker 1>you were to shine it on anything, it's just gonna

0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:32.920
<v Speaker 1>get absorbed. Doesn't necessarily work if you if you need

0:24:32.920 --> 0:24:36.720
<v Speaker 1>it for lithography, they found that if they used the

0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:40.400
<v Speaker 1>eu V in a vacuum and they used reflective surfaces

0:24:40.440 --> 0:24:43.639
<v Speaker 1>instead of lenses to focus and direct this light, they

0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:47.480
<v Speaker 1>could then use it in lithography. And there's also another

0:24:47.520 --> 0:24:49.960
<v Speaker 1>form of lithography we can mention, which is the electron

0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:53.639
<v Speaker 1>beam lithography. Yes, now, in this case, if you were

0:24:53.680 --> 0:24:56.160
<v Speaker 1>to use electron beam lithography, you can get very very

0:24:56.359 --> 0:25:01.720
<v Speaker 1>very precise and build these incredibly tiny structures um and

0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:04.000
<v Speaker 1>you don't need a mask. You can just put it

0:25:04.040 --> 0:25:06.720
<v Speaker 1>through a computer program and the computer program will direct

0:25:06.720 --> 0:25:10.400
<v Speaker 1>the beam properly so that you don't necessarily you don't

0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:13.479
<v Speaker 1>have to build the mask for the light to shine through. However,

0:25:13.520 --> 0:25:17.040
<v Speaker 1>it's a much slower process than photolithography, so it's not

0:25:17.160 --> 0:25:21.680
<v Speaker 1>really considered a viable alternative for the mass market right now.

0:25:23.480 --> 0:25:27.280
<v Speaker 1>But you were talking about reaching the the physical limits

0:25:27.520 --> 0:25:33.040
<v Speaker 1>of of size, which doesn't have anything to do with

0:25:33.600 --> 0:25:38.520
<v Speaker 1>necessarily our manufacturing process. It has to do with very

0:25:38.520 --> 0:25:42.439
<v Speaker 1>fundamental physical laws on the quantum level. Right, at a

0:25:42.480 --> 0:25:45.800
<v Speaker 1>certain point those divider has been between the uh the

0:25:45.840 --> 0:25:50.639
<v Speaker 1>pathways that electricity uh travel down. Once they get to

0:25:50.640 --> 0:25:52.760
<v Speaker 1>a certain point, the electrons are going to be able

0:25:52.760 --> 0:25:54.159
<v Speaker 1>to pass through them, and it's going to cause a

0:25:54.200 --> 0:25:58.360
<v Speaker 1>serious problem. Yeah, it's called electron tunneling, and uh it's

0:25:58.440 --> 0:26:01.359
<v Speaker 1>a really to read. To read a description of electron

0:26:01.400 --> 0:26:05.280
<v Speaker 1>tunneling is really really bizarre because imagine that you come

0:26:05.359 --> 0:26:07.920
<v Speaker 1>up to a wall. All right, You're standing on one

0:26:07.960 --> 0:26:10.119
<v Speaker 1>side of the wall, you lean against the wall, and

0:26:10.119 --> 0:26:12.000
<v Speaker 1>then suddenly you're on the other side of the wall.

0:26:12.960 --> 0:26:17.760
<v Speaker 1>You didn't didn't necessarily pass through the wall. You just

0:26:17.960 --> 0:26:19.800
<v Speaker 1>started on one side and you ended up on the other.

0:26:19.840 --> 0:26:22.600
<v Speaker 1>That's kind of like electron tunneling. It doesn't actually move

0:26:22.880 --> 0:26:26.480
<v Speaker 1>through the material. It's just it's so small. It the

0:26:26.520 --> 0:26:30.000
<v Speaker 1>materials so thin, the electron access it acts like there's

0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:31.600
<v Speaker 1>nothing there. It might as well not have been there

0:26:31.600 --> 0:26:34.080
<v Speaker 1>in the first place. Right. So that's the problem is

0:26:34.119 --> 0:26:37.679
<v Speaker 1>if you if you build these components UM too small,

0:26:38.480 --> 0:26:41.919
<v Speaker 1>then the electrons are no longer controllable. And again, just

0:26:42.000 --> 0:26:44.120
<v Speaker 1>like in the situation where I said, if the entire

0:26:44.200 --> 0:26:47.720
<v Speaker 1>chip were to conduct electricity, it would not work the

0:26:47.720 --> 0:26:49.840
<v Speaker 1>same sort of thing. Yeah, you can't direct the electrons

0:26:49.880 --> 0:26:53.560
<v Speaker 1>if they can pass through everything, you know, So uh,

0:26:53.680 --> 0:26:56.359
<v Speaker 1>in that case, we will have to look at alternatives

0:26:56.520 --> 0:27:01.000
<v Speaker 1>to the transistor. UM. And there are lots of engineers

0:27:01.000 --> 0:27:04.320
<v Speaker 1>working on this problem. Uh. You sometimes sometimes they find

0:27:04.320 --> 0:27:06.679
<v Speaker 1>out by switching to a different material they can actually

0:27:06.680 --> 0:27:10.600
<v Speaker 1>get a little smaller than they expected, which until found

0:27:10.600 --> 0:27:13.840
<v Speaker 1>out when they switched from one kind of metal that

0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:16.840
<v Speaker 1>they were using in their their chips to a different kind.

0:27:17.720 --> 0:27:20.880
<v Speaker 1>But eventually we are going to hit that limit, and

0:27:21.000 --> 0:27:24.120
<v Speaker 1>it's not going to be that long from now. Um.

0:27:24.119 --> 0:27:26.040
<v Speaker 1>But that doesn't mean that we won't find a new

0:27:26.080 --> 0:27:29.480
<v Speaker 1>way to work around the problem. I'm I'm sure it

0:27:29.520 --> 0:27:34.120
<v Speaker 1>won't be long before we don't know something anyway. So

0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:37.120
<v Speaker 1>that's how microchips are made. We kind of talked about

0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:41.360
<v Speaker 1>what they did, uh, And you know, there are several

0:27:41.440 --> 0:27:44.880
<v Speaker 1>different companies that produced these. Like Pilette was saying, it's

0:27:45.359 --> 0:27:48.960
<v Speaker 1>not just for computers, it's for all sorts of electronics. Yeah,

0:27:49.119 --> 0:27:51.800
<v Speaker 1>it's it's funny because, um, you know, for a company

0:27:51.840 --> 0:27:55.960
<v Speaker 1>with this long and story to pass is Texas Instruments has,

0:27:56.000 --> 0:27:58.919
<v Speaker 1>for example, Um, you know that you just don't they

0:27:58.920 --> 0:28:02.800
<v Speaker 1>don't make chips for computers that end up on people's

0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:06.320
<v Speaker 1>desktops at least not anymore. Um. But yeah, a m

0:28:06.400 --> 0:28:09.840
<v Speaker 1>D UH is one of those companies that has had

0:28:09.840 --> 0:28:12.360
<v Speaker 1>a hard time getting a toe hold in the consumer

0:28:12.400 --> 0:28:17.159
<v Speaker 1>desktop market. Um, partially due to you know, just the

0:28:17.160 --> 0:28:19.960
<v Speaker 1>fact that they're they're you know, trying to get out

0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:22.600
<v Speaker 1>the eight hundred town guerrilla or maybe eight hundred ton

0:28:22.640 --> 0:28:25.240
<v Speaker 1>guerrilla in case of Intel, because Intel was one of

0:28:25.240 --> 0:28:29.000
<v Speaker 1>the very very first UH chip manufacturers to make UH

0:28:29.560 --> 0:28:33.240
<v Speaker 1>microprocessors for home and UH work computers. Yeah, they also

0:28:33.359 --> 0:28:38.520
<v Speaker 1>made some very shrewd partnerships with various companies, which actually

0:28:38.640 --> 0:28:41.680
<v Speaker 1>has has gained them a little trouble in the court

0:28:41.720 --> 0:28:46.160
<v Speaker 1>systems for anti competitive behaviors. Yes, that's true, but that's

0:28:46.200 --> 0:28:48.760
<v Speaker 1>a totally different story. Maybe one what maybe what we

0:28:48.800 --> 0:28:51.520
<v Speaker 1>should do is put down on a podcast list at

0:28:51.520 --> 0:28:54.320
<v Speaker 1>some point the story of Intel versus a m D.

0:28:54.480 --> 0:28:55.920
<v Speaker 1>That would be fun, that would be that would be

0:28:55.960 --> 0:28:57.480
<v Speaker 1>a good way to put it. That would be less

0:28:57.480 --> 0:29:00.080
<v Speaker 1>technical and more kind of political. But it's it's an

0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:03.680
<v Speaker 1>interesting story. But I have something else we can talk

0:29:03.680 --> 0:29:12.520
<v Speaker 1>about very quickly. It's a little listener mail. This listener

0:29:12.520 --> 0:29:15.960
<v Speaker 1>mail comes from Chris Now. Chris says, just by the way,

0:29:15.960 --> 0:29:18.640
<v Speaker 1>it was directed not just to tech stuff, but the

0:29:18.640 --> 0:29:23.800
<v Speaker 1>stuff you should know. You smell, and you started this war.

0:29:24.600 --> 0:29:27.040
<v Speaker 1>Why would you ever be so unwise as to start

0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:30.200
<v Speaker 1>a war with tech stuff. This is a war that

0:29:30.320 --> 0:29:34.960
<v Speaker 1>you cannot win. This is a war you will not win.

0:29:35.640 --> 0:29:37.960
<v Speaker 1>We expect your surrender to be handed to our leader,

0:29:38.000 --> 0:29:40.200
<v Speaker 1>Jonathan Strickland in the form of a sticky note with

0:29:40.240 --> 0:29:43.560
<v Speaker 1>the words you win written in black sharpie. We expect

0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:47.120
<v Speaker 1>your surrender soon. And then there's some French which I'm

0:29:47.120 --> 0:29:49.600
<v Speaker 1>not gonna attempt to say because you pop off on say.

0:29:52.640 --> 0:29:56.680
<v Speaker 1>But this is from Chris Now. Chris. It comes down

0:29:56.720 --> 0:30:00.800
<v Speaker 1>to to this, Um, we're gonna We're gonn just shoot

0:30:00.840 --> 0:30:05.600
<v Speaker 1>straight here. We like Josh and Chuck. They're nice guys.

0:30:06.200 --> 0:30:08.719
<v Speaker 1>We even like stuff you should know. I listened to it.

0:30:08.920 --> 0:30:12.120
<v Speaker 1>I'm a fan. They do good stuff. Occasionally they pull

0:30:12.240 --> 0:30:18.080
<v Speaker 1>us on um right, So so our rivalry is mostly

0:30:18.120 --> 0:30:20.600
<v Speaker 1>funny and the only reason I'm saying this now is

0:30:20.600 --> 0:30:23.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't want it to spiral out of control because

0:30:23.240 --> 0:30:25.400
<v Speaker 1>just the other day I noticed that Chuck was not

0:30:25.840 --> 0:30:28.040
<v Speaker 1>his normal chip herself. And it turns out he's worried

0:30:28.040 --> 0:30:31.520
<v Speaker 1>that people don't like him. I mean, earlier today I

0:30:31.680 --> 0:30:35.240
<v Speaker 1>found him weeping in the corners, sucking his own thumb

0:30:35.400 --> 0:30:38.680
<v Speaker 1>and someone with I know, well, I mean it's probably

0:30:38.720 --> 0:30:41.320
<v Speaker 1>he probably wouldn't want me to share that, but his

0:30:41.440 --> 0:30:45.920
<v Speaker 1>psyche is weak. People. I'm just saying they're not made

0:30:45.920 --> 0:30:48.360
<v Speaker 1>of the stern stuff that Plat and I are made of.

0:30:48.560 --> 0:30:51.680
<v Speaker 1>You know, we are like teflon. It just slides right

0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:55.360
<v Speaker 1>off us. But Josh and Chuck they're like, well, they're

0:30:55.400 --> 0:31:00.840
<v Speaker 1>like Teddy Bears, emotionally vulnerable teddy Bears. Yes, it's true.

0:31:01.400 --> 0:31:03.560
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for writing, Chris. If any of you would like

0:31:03.600 --> 0:31:06.600
<v Speaker 1>to write us, our address is tech Stuff at how

0:31:06.640 --> 0:31:09.720
<v Speaker 1>stuff works dot com. And we have a cool fan

0:31:09.760 --> 0:31:11.920
<v Speaker 1>page on Facebook now, so if you're on Facebook, do

0:31:11.960 --> 0:31:14.760
<v Speaker 1>a search for tech Stuff join our fan page because uh,

0:31:15.400 --> 0:31:17.680
<v Speaker 1>we're trying to build up a nice, strong community, have

0:31:18.000 --> 0:31:20.240
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0:31:20.280 --> 0:31:22.680
<v Speaker 1>we also have our own Twitter feed. Yep, we decided

0:31:22.720 --> 0:31:26.600
<v Speaker 1>to UH to have a text stuff podcast twitter feed now,

0:31:26.640 --> 0:31:29.480
<v Speaker 1>so instead of just following Jonathan and I individually, you

0:31:29.520 --> 0:31:34.040
<v Speaker 1>can follow us together right. The handle, by the way

0:31:34.200 --> 0:31:37.440
<v Speaker 1>is text Stuff h s W, So just go to

0:31:37.440 --> 0:31:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Twitter dot com slash tech Stuff h s W and

0:31:40.480 --> 0:31:43.720
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0:31:43.760 --> 0:31:46.719
<v Speaker 1>Facebook pages and Twitter pages for the other podcasts on

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0:31:49.920 --> 0:31:52.640
<v Speaker 1>into some of the others because you just haven't had

0:31:52.640 --> 0:31:56.600
<v Speaker 1>a reason, now you got a reason. They're right there. People, Yeah,

0:31:56.680 --> 0:31:58.720
<v Speaker 1>check them out and Chris and I will talk to

0:31:58.720 --> 0:32:06.840
<v Speaker 1>you again really soon. If you're a tech stuff and

0:32:06.920 --> 0:32:09.840
<v Speaker 1>be sure to check us out on Twitter Tech Stuff

0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:12.719
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0:32:12.760 --> 0:32:16.240
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0:32:17.920 --> 0:32:20.480
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0:32:20.520 --> 0:32:22.920
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0:32:22.920 --> 0:32:24.960
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0:32:25.000 --> 0:32:32.480
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