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Speaker 1: On June twenty third, nineteen eighty four, at around four am,

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Speaker 1: at a bodega in the Bronx, a male customer bought

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Speaker 1: beer and a twenty five year old woman bought cigarettes.

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Speaker 1: It's unclear whether they knew one another. The store clerk

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Speaker 1: said that the woman willingly got into the male customer's

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Speaker 1: blue and white sedan. However, according to the woman, she

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Speaker 1: was abducted upon leaving the store. Then she was dragged

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Speaker 1: into a park, raped, sodomized, and robbed before chasing the

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Speaker 1: man down and getting her money back. Then, while waiting

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Speaker 1: for a cab, the same man dragged her into an

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Speaker 1: abandoned building where he again assaulted her, but this time

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Speaker 1: he cut her face with a razor blade, blinding her

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Speaker 1: in her left eye and threatening to kill her if

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Speaker 1: she went to the police. When she awoke, she called

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Speaker 1: first responders and went to the hospital, where she underwent

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Speaker 1: surgery and a rape kit. Police showed her a mugshot

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Speaker 1: book and she chose the picture of a man named

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Speaker 1: Alan Newton. The store clerk identified Alan as well from

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Speaker 1: a photo array, but on the night of the crime,

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Speaker 1: Alan had stayed with his fiance's family in Queens, all

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Speaker 1: of whom had said that no one had left in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the night. Curiously, no zerology was presented

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Speaker 1: at trial, only two very shaky IDAs from the witness

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Speaker 1: and the victim, who could not agree on whether the

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Speaker 1: victim knew her assailant or not. Advances in DNA testing

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Speaker 1: would be all that Allan needed to eventually disprove his accusers,

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Speaker 1: but only if the police could be bothered to locate

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Speaker 1: the rape kit right where it had always been for

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Speaker 1: twenty two long years. This is Wrongful Conviction. Welcome back

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Speaker 1: to Wrongful Conviction today. Well, this is long overdue because

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Speaker 1: ever since I started doing this podcast back in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and six, team, I've thought a lot about this

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Speaker 1: case of the man you're about to hear from in person,

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Speaker 1: Alan Newton, and I don't know why we haven't gotten

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Speaker 1: around to it till now, but I'm so glad we're

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Speaker 1: going to do it today because this is a story

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Speaker 1: that needs to be heard, and it's a hard one

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Speaker 1: to hear, by the way, and I'm very, very excited

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Speaker 1: and honored to have you here today, Alan Newton, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Wronful Conviction.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. Jason. Definitely appreciate what y'all, guy is doing

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Speaker 2: as far as getting our story out there.

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Speaker 1: So let's go back before this happened, and before you

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Speaker 1: were exposed to the worst that our criminal legal system

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Speaker 1: has to offer. Your life was pretty good, right.

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Speaker 2: Fairy decent. I was working, had graduated high school, and

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Speaker 2: my mind, you know, back in nineteen eighty four, living

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Speaker 2: my best life and appearing when to go to college

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Speaker 2: in a couple of years is and that's an ordinary

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Speaker 2: young guy just living my life.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're working for the New York Telephone Company

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Speaker 1: obviously a name that doesn't exist anymore, but New York

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Speaker 1: Telephone Company for people who remember that far back, was

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Speaker 1: a big company in New York, obviously, and you were

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Speaker 1: going to hip hop dance parties in the Bronx, which

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Speaker 1: was again like that was the popular thing to do

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Speaker 1: back then. And if I understand correctly, you were also

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Speaker 1: engaged at the time, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I was living in the Bronx. My fiance was

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Speaker 2: living in Queens, so I was working in Manhattan. So

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Speaker 2: I was basically traveling around New York City through the

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Speaker 2: bows and parties.

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Speaker 1: Just making your way, right like any other twenty three

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Speaker 1: year old guy would be doing at the time. And

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Speaker 1: so you had one previous incident that I guess put

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Speaker 1: you on the radar of the authorities, right, Can you

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Speaker 1: tell us about that?

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Speaker 2: It was the year in nineteen seventy nine, two three

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Speaker 2: months before I graduated high school, and I was at

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Speaker 2: a party and got in a fight with another young

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Speaker 2: teenager at my age and got a battery charge. And unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: it was the photographs and the police mug shot books

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Speaker 2: that the victim supposedly picked out to connect me to

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Speaker 2: this longful conviction of us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean we've heard that story before, whether it's

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Speaker 1: with the John Asier Velasque's case or so many other

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Speaker 1: cases where some minor infraction for which somebody in a

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Speaker 1: different zip code probably wouldn't have been arrested or charged.

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Speaker 1: But you know, a little high school incident, a fight.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying a fight isn't a serious thing, but

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Speaker 1: it was a fight among two teenage boys, which happens

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Speaker 1: every day in different cities all over the country, and

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Speaker 1: ninety nine percent of the time no charges are filed.

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Speaker 1: But you know, in the poorer communities, people of color,

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Speaker 1: you can end up with a record that could end

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Speaker 1: up with a mugshot in a book that can end

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Speaker 1: up in a wrongful conviction, and it happens time and again,

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Speaker 1: and that's exactly what happened in this case.

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Speaker 2: And you're absolutely right because you know later on on

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Speaker 2: learning about the case and all that the other guy

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Speaker 2: that had to fight with wasn't coming to court. So

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Speaker 2: it really wasn't anybody, you know, pushing the case along

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Speaker 2: through the justice system. But in my ignorance, not knowing

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Speaker 2: better and just wanting to move on because I was

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Speaker 2: working and losing days at work, you know, coming back

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Speaker 2: and forth to court, I decided just to take a bleed.

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Speaker 2: And like you said, under different circumstances and another zip code,

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Speaker 2: the case with it. Just like you said, it's just

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Speaker 2: a fight between teenagers at a party. But that's not

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Speaker 2: the way the justice system, like the dol out punishment

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Speaker 2: when it comes to certain communities, it's more so about

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Speaker 2: putting people through the criminal justice system and making sure

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Speaker 2: that they have a record for the rest of their lives.

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Speaker 1: So that brings us right up to the time of

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Speaker 1: the crime. Now. At four am on June twenty third,

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four, a twenty five year old woman stopped

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Speaker 1: at a convenience during the bronze to buy cigarettes, and

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Speaker 1: there are some conflicts in the narrative between the victim

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Speaker 1: and the store clerk that had an impact later in

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Speaker 1: the compromised way in which the jury decided the case.

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Speaker 1: So back to the night of the crime, the store

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Speaker 1: clerk said that the assailant also came into the store

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Speaker 1: at that time and bought a beer before returning to

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Speaker 1: his car, a blue and white Sadan, where he was

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Speaker 1: honking his horn for the victim. In this case, the

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Speaker 1: store clerk said that the victim went to the car voluntarily.

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Speaker 1: The victim, while maintained when she exited the store that

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Speaker 1: this other customer, the assailant grabbed her from behind, put

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Speaker 1: a box cutter to her throat, and threw her into

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Speaker 1: the blue and white sedan and it drove off. Now,

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Speaker 1: after a few minutes, the car stalled, and when the

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Speaker 1: assailant got out to check the engine, allegedly the passenger

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Speaker 1: side door handle was broken off so the victim couldn't

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Speaker 1: get out of the car. The assailant then dragged her

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Speaker 1: to a nearby park where he orally sodomized and raped

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Speaker 1: her and attempted to take her money in cigarettes.

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Speaker 2: Yes, she said the guy took her money. She says

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Speaker 2: she ran after the guy, and the guy gave her

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Speaker 2: money back. When she claimed that she asked some kids

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Speaker 2: to feed. He didn't say she was going to caught

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Speaker 2: a cop at this time anything. She says she was

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Speaker 2: waiting for a cab. She said the guy came and

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Speaker 2: abducted her again. This time he took her an abandoned building,

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Speaker 2: raped her again, robbed again, and this time he'd cut.

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Speaker 1: Her in case it wasn't horrible enough, he'd cut her

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Speaker 1: face with a razor to prevent her from identifying. He

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Speaker 1: actually blinded her in one eye, and he told her

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Speaker 1: that if she called the police, he would come back

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Speaker 1: and kill her. She saw his back as he ran away,

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Speaker 1: and then she passed out. But when she came to

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Speaker 1: and regained consciousness, she went to a call box. He

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Speaker 1: used to have these police call boxes around the city,

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Speaker 1: and she called the police. Let me ask you. She

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Speaker 1: described the victim as five to seven or five eight,

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Speaker 1: one hundred and sixty pounds, with a short afro, had

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Speaker 1: a mustache, but she said she couldn't tell if he

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Speaker 1: was darker light skinned because it was the middle of

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Speaker 1: the night. Obviously it was very dark out, and she

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Speaker 1: told the detective at the hospital that he was physically

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Speaker 1: large and that his name was Willy. Did any of

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Speaker 1: this stuff match up with you?

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Speaker 2: It didn't match up with me. It wasn't anything that

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Speaker 2: connected me to the crime. I was in Queens that

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Speaker 2: weekend with my fiance, had the ticket steps from going

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Speaker 2: to see Ghostbusters Saturday, and.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, Ghostbusters. You know, I'm just thinking about that

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Speaker 1: movie was like such a huge thing. It can't It

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Speaker 1: was like the only thing we were talking about that

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Speaker 1: summer of eighty four, which has other implications, specifically that

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Speaker 1: there was no DNA testing back in nineteen eighty four

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Speaker 1: at the hospital. They did do a rape kit and

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Speaker 1: sperm was gathered, but without the DNA testing that eventually

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Speaker 1: would exonerate you. Alan, all they had was zerology. So,

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Speaker 1: to the best of your knowledge, did they do any

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Speaker 1: testing about blood types at all of this evidence that

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Speaker 1: they had collected.

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Speaker 2: Not to my knowledge, I didn't find any paperwork. But

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Speaker 2: I have to believe they had an idea because when

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Speaker 2: I got arrested, I went through Rikers Allen and back

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Speaker 2: then they was taking blood from you. But as far

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Speaker 2: as I know, they never did any soology testing, even

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Speaker 2: though they had my blood type and they had a

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Speaker 2: solology evidence that was in the rape kit.

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Speaker 1: So soroology testing was standard protocol back then in a

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Speaker 1: case like this. If they had something to use against you,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you know that they would have. But the

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Speaker 1: only evidence from the rape kit that the DAUS was

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Speaker 1: that spermitozoa were present, proving that a sexual interaction had occurred,

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Speaker 1: but nothing about blood types, which is very suspicious. And meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: the detectives brought their mug book down to the hospital

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Speaker 1: and the victim, who had remember just gotten out of

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Speaker 1: eye surgery, was shown a dizzying amount of pictures. Who

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Speaker 1: knows what was going on during this process as far

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Speaker 1: as the suggestive nature of it or the pressure they

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Speaker 1: put on her when she was in an extremely fragile state.

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Speaker 1: But then eventually she picked out your picture from that

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Speaker 1: arrest back in high school. Then they brought a photo

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Speaker 1: lineup to the store clerk who also picked you.

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Speaker 2: Out, and even what they have the stalk clerk. The

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Speaker 2: stalk clerk said the reason why she recognized me. This

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Speaker 2: is what she claimed on a stand I was the

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Speaker 2: only guy that I came into the establishment and the

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Speaker 2: last twelve hours that she didn't know.

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Speaker 1: And again we don't know how suggestive they were being

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Speaker 1: with either of these identifications, and then both of them

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Speaker 1: having already seen your picture. It's not surprising at all

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Speaker 1: that both women picked you out of a live lineup,

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Speaker 1: so you were arrested. But something about this idea and

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Speaker 1: the whole situation should have stuck out to everyone involved.

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Speaker 1: The clerk maintained that the victim knew the assailant, but

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Speaker 1: the victim didn't know you at all, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: did you know the victim.

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Speaker 2: Not at all? Never seen her, never met her, never

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Speaker 2: knew right.

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Speaker 1: Plus you had a solid alibi. Your fiance and her

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Speaker 1: daughter bouch for you. You've got the movie ticket stubs,

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Speaker 1: you had stayed up late watching TV with her family

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Speaker 1: and Queens before spending the night there. I mean, you

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Speaker 1: were in an entirely different borough.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't in the brongs that weekend. I was in

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Speaker 2: Queens and Bookman. And it gets even better now. When

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Speaker 2: I first got arrested, my fiance, you know, intended father

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Speaker 2: in law. He was a retired correction officer. He went

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Speaker 2: to the Bronx District Attorney's office and said, listen, I

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Speaker 2: don't know what this case is about, but I know

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Speaker 2: this man was at my house in Queen's and they

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Speaker 2: try to ask, well, do we have a key? Do

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Speaker 2: he be coming in three four in the morning. They

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Speaker 2: was like, listen, he don't move like that. It wasn't

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Speaker 2: no urgency to try to get to the truth, to

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Speaker 2: find out what really happened. And like I said, the

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Speaker 2: victim also told the cops this guy named was some

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Speaker 2: guy named Willy. Later on, I found out that the

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Speaker 2: cops was investigating some guy named Willy, and paperwork that

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Speaker 2: I was able to get years later showed that they

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Speaker 2: was doing investigation into somebody. Matter of fact, there was

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Speaker 2: a series of rapes going on in the community and

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Speaker 2: it was fitting a similar description, a similar mo and

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Speaker 2: that just stopped.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds like maybe this guy could have

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Speaker 1: been an informant, or they were protecting him in some way.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, because otherwise, why would anybody want to

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Speaker 1: let a serial rapist remain free. It's insane, but that's

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Speaker 1: what happened, and I can only speculate because I have

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Speaker 1: no idea what was going on behind the scenes. And

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Speaker 1: it's crazy when you talk about your father in law

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Speaker 1: to be, you know. I mean, this is a guy

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Speaker 1: you would think would have some credibility, you know, in

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Speaker 1: that system especially, And they didn't care what he had

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Speaker 1: to say. They didn't care what you had to say,

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Speaker 1: they didn't care about your fiance. In fact, they were

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Speaker 1: aggressively disinterested, no question. They were fighting against the truth

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Speaker 1: and they won.

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Speaker 2: They said, when they can't to stand. Well, once we

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Speaker 2: focused on mister Newton, everything else ceased in regards to

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Speaker 2: another suspect. And a lot of these cases, the person

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Speaker 2: that committed these crimes go on to commit multiple crimes. Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm not caught. They don't stop and like check themselves, right.

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Speaker 1: And this is a guy who was so depraved that

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Speaker 1: he also took a box cutter to her face. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like this is like, this is a person that we

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Speaker 1: should all want off the streets, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: Jesus Christ. This episode is underwritten by global law firm

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Speaker 1: Greenberg Traig through its pro bono program. Greenberg Traig leverages

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Speaker 1: its more than twenty four hundred lawyers across forty two

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Speaker 1: offices to serve the greater good of our communities and

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Speaker 1: provide equal access to justice for all in the field

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Speaker 1: of criminal justice. Greenberg Triwerg attorneys have exonerated and freedomand

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Speaker 1: in Philadelphia represent numerous individuals previously sentenced to life for

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Speaker 1: crimes committed as juveniles and resentencing hearings, and received the

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Speaker 1: American Bar Association's twenty twenty one Exceptional Service Award for

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Speaker 1: Death Penalty Representation for their work on five death penalty cases.

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Speaker 1: GT is reimagining what big law can be because a

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Speaker 1: more just world only happens by design.

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Speaker 2: They offered me three years, Jason, they offered me three

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Speaker 2: to ten years in a plea deal, and I couldn't

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Speaker 2: take debt saw. I made a constant decision to go

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Speaker 2: to trial and fight this all the way through.

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Speaker 1: How long did the trial take?

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Speaker 2: Five to six days altogether?

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Speaker 1: So Trialy only used the rate kit and other biological

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Speaker 1: evidence to determine that a sexual act had occurred, but

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Speaker 1: no zerological evidence was presented, So we don't know what

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Speaker 1: they found out, if anything, at all. And I'd only

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Speaker 1: be speculating to say that since they had identifications from

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Speaker 1: the victim and the witness, they may have ignored or

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Speaker 1: hidden inconvenient exculpatory evidence, like if the blood type didn't

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Speaker 1: match Allen, And of course many years later DNA testing

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Speaker 1: absolutely excluded Allan and proved that these two misidentifications were

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Speaker 1: just that totally unreliable. And that's really all this trial

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Speaker 1: came down to. The two misidentifications.

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Speaker 2: They had to line up. They had to line up.

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Speaker 2: I was picked out by the victim and this witness.

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Speaker 2: But when they both came to court a year later

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Speaker 2: and saw me again, neither one of them initially picked

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Speaker 2: me out in court, neither one of them, and then

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Speaker 2: the district attorney I was on the case at the time.

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Speaker 2: The ABA had a discussion with the victim and the

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Speaker 2: store clerk, and they both came up with an excuse

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Speaker 2: of why I'm now the guy.

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Speaker 1: So the only evidence they had was shaky, but somehow

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Speaker 1: that was still enough to overcome your defense. What if

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Speaker 1: anything was presented in your favor.

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Speaker 2: I mean, not only did my fiance testify, her daughter testified.

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Speaker 2: My fiance also took a lot of detective tests, see

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Speaker 2: passed it. You know, the court was informed, the district

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Speaker 2: attorney was informed about this. And unlike you see on

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Speaker 2: CSI or one of these other law and order shows

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Speaker 2: where okay, somebody passed a lot of detective tests. Let's

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Speaker 2: try to do a little more research. The only thing

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Speaker 2: the judge did he turned to my fiance while she

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Speaker 2: was on the stand and said, listen, if you say

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Speaker 2: anything about that lie of detective tests, I'm gonna hold

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Speaker 2: you in contempt.

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Speaker 1: Right, and obviously lie. Detective test results are inadmissible because

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Speaker 1: the testing is super were subjective. But back in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty four, polygraph results were still admissible in court. So

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Speaker 1: it's interesting and confusing that this judge seemed keen on

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Speaker 1: keeping that information from the jury, which brings us to

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Speaker 1: this very odd verdict. You were acquitted of all the

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Speaker 1: charges stemming from the incident at the park, but convicted

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Speaker 1: of the charges related to the victim's attack in the

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Speaker 1: abandoned building, which I had to read that like three

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Speaker 1: times because I was like, but wait a minute, it

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Speaker 1: was known at the time directly from the victim that

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Speaker 1: it was the same person.

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Speaker 2: Correct, So.

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Speaker 1: Can you I mean, that's a great question. I just

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Speaker 1: helped me out here because I don't understand I.

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Speaker 2: Got to answer for that. Remember, now, the victim and

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Speaker 2: the clerk had different testimony in regards to how the

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Speaker 2: victim got into the car. The victim says she was abducted.

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Speaker 2: The clerk says she randomly walked into the call. So

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Speaker 2: the jury submided is that these two people knew each other.

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Speaker 2: And then to hear what the jury told my lawyer

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Speaker 2: about why they made that decision, it was like, oh, yeah, well,

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Speaker 2: they called the girl a liar about being abducted coming

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Speaker 2: out the store. They went with the store clerk's testimony

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Speaker 2: that she walked into the car on her own, which

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Speaker 2: means they were saying the girl and the guy was together.

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Speaker 2: But we believed something went wrong after the park, so

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Speaker 2: they believed the victim when she says she got assaulted

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Speaker 2: in the building, but they thought she was lying about

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Speaker 2: the park and that came out because she got cut.

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Speaker 2: If this woman did not get cut, I truly believed

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't got convicted because they attitude was, well, this

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Speaker 2: was a consensual relationship, even though that wasn't the testimony

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Speaker 2: outside of what the clerk said about the guy beeping

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Speaker 2: the horn and the victim walking into the car. So

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Speaker 2: that's called to be pugnant verdict because it's the same victim,

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Speaker 2: it's the same evidence, and a judge legally don't supposed

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Speaker 2: to allow because it's inconsistent.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the jury was presented with this conflicting evidence,

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Speaker 1: and maybe in the interest of public safety or so,

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Speaker 1: they thought, they were very willing to come up with

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Speaker 1: their own narrative of the events to come to this verdict,

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Speaker 1: which of course isn't what they're supposed to do. They'd

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Speaker 1: accepted the store clerk's testimony, in effect, calling the victim's

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Speaker 1: testimony about not knowing her attacker, they called that a lie. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: it was undisputed that she didn't know you at all,

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Speaker 1: yet she identified you anyway. That means if the store

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Speaker 1: clerk was right, the victim must have been protecting her

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Speaker 1: actual attacker when talking to the police and fingered you

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Speaker 1: in his place. On the other hand, if the store

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Speaker 1: clerk was wrong, maybe she was abducted by a stranger.

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Speaker 1: But then the jury should have believed her about both assaults.

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Speaker 2: They just chose to believe half of the victim's story

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Speaker 2: about the building, and we don't believe what happened in

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Speaker 2: the park. And they said, well, we're going to go

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Speaker 2: with the store clerk because supposedly she's an independent witness.

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Speaker 2: But it was also testimony from the victim herself, now

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Speaker 2: that she had got assaulted about less than a month

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Speaker 2: before by an ex boyfriend. So it was a lot

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Speaker 2: of things that came out. But I also believed the

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Speaker 2: judge played a big part in my trial because the

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Speaker 2: ADA in my case was kind of new, fresh out

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Speaker 2: of law school. You know, she wasn't up the park

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Speaker 2: when it came to trying to question witnesses. The judge

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Speaker 2: was taken over across examination and direct examination. It was

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Speaker 2: like you're supposed to be, you know, the arbitrator, not

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Speaker 2: make the case for the ADA. Unfortunately passed away before

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Speaker 2: my case got overturned, because I would have really liked

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Speaker 2: to show him that I was really innocent.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that would have been satisfying. Considering what you're

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Speaker 1: telling us now, and also what we know this judge

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Speaker 1: had already said to your fiance by being held in contempt,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like he was really, for all intents and purposes,

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Speaker 1: just another prosecutor, like an adjunct prosecutor, which obviously totally

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Speaker 1: tilts the scale, and not in your favor at all.

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Speaker 1: So at this point, did you expect the jury would

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Speaker 1: see past the nonsense?

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Speaker 2: I mean, when you're telling the truth, you believe in

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Speaker 2: your heart, it's gonna stand up. You believe it's enough.

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Speaker 2: It came as a real shot. I wanted to prove

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Speaker 2: my innocence and say, hey, I got the wrong guy here.

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Speaker 2: You know, this can't go on. And I didn't think

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Speaker 2: it was gonna last twenty two years. And I mean

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Speaker 2: I didn't think I was gonna get convicted either. So

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Speaker 2: the first thing I did once I got of state,

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Speaker 2: the first motion I put in the post say motion

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Speaker 2: was trying to get psylology testing. That's the first motion

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Speaker 2: I put in. I wanted to try to get that

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Speaker 2: rape kit and try to test it, you know, and

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Speaker 2: this was pre DNA. I just want to test it

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Speaker 2: for blood typing. Judge Einstein all through the years when

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Speaker 2: I was founding motions on my behalf, he just he

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Speaker 2: would shoot me down. He just disregarded all my motions.

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Speaker 2: Even I was trying to find the rape kit and

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Speaker 2: presenting you know, the republic verdict, everything got dismissed. And

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Speaker 2: it was hard, man, you know, it was rough. I

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Speaker 2: lost both my parents in there, and ooh, things that

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Speaker 2: you know that I lost I could never get back.

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Speaker 2: But I had my family and they was, you know,

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Speaker 2: always there for me. And so having that support and

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Speaker 2: had to keep fighting though until I got it right though,

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Speaker 2: until they realized they made a mistake.

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Speaker 1: And that took unfortunately way too long, as it usually

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Speaker 1: does in these cases.

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Speaker 2: Ten years after I got convicted, New York State passed

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Speaker 2: the DNA law. I was one of the first people

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Speaker 2: to put in the motion as far as trying to

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Speaker 2: get testing.

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Speaker 1: On August sixteenth, nineteen ninety four, that was the first

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Speaker 1: time that you requested the post conviction DNA testing, but

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Speaker 1: the court denied your request because they said the kit

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Speaker 1: could not be located.

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Speaker 2: Because I was going to pro say, the courts allotted

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Speaker 2: DA's office to indicate, well, we can't find it. We

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Speaker 2: did a search, we can't find it. And so my

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Speaker 2: one true hope of proving my innocence in my mind

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Speaker 2: didn't exist anymore, you know, was gone Vanitho.

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Speaker 1: And that had to be a terrible blow, right, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, I was almost broken though in you know, no

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Speaker 2: chance of getting out I got to do all this

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Speaker 2: time unless I go say I did something I didn't

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Speaker 2: do to try to make parlole. And I had spoke

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Speaker 2: with you know, my brother about it, my family, and

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Speaker 2: I was like, hey, I may have to go take

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Speaker 2: a program here and say I did this crime just

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Speaker 2: to have consideration, not for release consideration. And my family

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Speaker 2: was like, nah, you're not doing that. I was like,

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Speaker 2: I'm doing this time. They was like no, we all

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Speaker 2: doing this time with you.

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Speaker 1: That sounds like a pretty dark time. But fortunately this

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Speaker 1: whole situation turned around and this is the good stuff.

436
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 1: So what happened next?

437
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 2: So now, ten years after that, when Innocon's Project come

438
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 2: on a case, Vanessa Popkin reached out to the Browns

439
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 2: County District Attorney's office and the ADA decided, Okay, you know,

440
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 2: we're gonna look for it now because we have an

441
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 2: attorney acting us. The relationships the Innocence Project had with

442
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,959
Speaker 2: the district attorney offices made it possible. I mean, the

443
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,479
Speaker 2: courts couldn't make the DA's office look for it.

444
00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 1: In November two thousand and five, the kit was found

445
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 1: after a physical search of the evidence barrels at the

446
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 1: Pearson Place Queen's warehouse, which means the rape kit was

447
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 1: found in the same barrel that was indicated on the

448
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: evidence voucher, which is to say, it was where it

449
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: was supposed to be and where it had almost certainly

450
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 1: been all those years that they had been saying they

451
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: couldn't find it. It was right there.

452
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 2: Now it was supposed to go back to the Bronx.

453
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 2: It never went back to the Bronx. They didn't come

454
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 2: to pick it up after the trial. And what happened.

455
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 2: You know, evidence that's not reclaim is sent to piercing

456
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 2: place in Queens and like you said, it was indicated

457
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 2: on the voucher that it was sent somewhere else. Now

458
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 2: this is the tricky part. If it had got sent

459
00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,600
Speaker 2: back to the Bronx, there's a possibility I wouldn't have

460
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 2: been here. Because the Bronx was losing and destroying stuff,

461
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 2: Queens Warehouse was bigger, so they was able to maintain property.

462
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 2: Even though they got property in there for fifty years,

463
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 2: they was able to maintained it. So technically it wasn't

464
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 2: where was supposed to be, but it was where it

465
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:06,119
Speaker 2: was indicated to be.

466
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:11,639
Speaker 1: So in April two thousand and six, FSA Forensic Scize

467
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 1: Associates attained a full DNA profile from the Daglan cervical swabs.

468
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 1: The reference samples were collected from you Allen and FSA

469
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 1: and the Bronx DA's office confirmed the DNA drum roll, please,

470
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: here we go. The DNA conclusively excluded you as the

471
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,240
Speaker 1: source of the sperm are covered from the victim. Immediately

472
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: after the rape, justice finally prevailed. It was delayed, but

473
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 1: not denied. It was delayed for twenty two years, and

474
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: on July sixth of two thousand and six, you walked

475
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: out of a Bronx courthouse after the instance project and

476
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: the Bronx County DA's office filed a joint motion to

477
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 1: vacate your conviction. I remember this because we were all celebrating.

478
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 1: What was that moment like for you?

479
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,880
Speaker 2: I was heaving. I was. I was like being born

480
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 2: in an I didn't see it coming. I was almost

481
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,639
Speaker 2: prepared just do the whole forty. That was the attitude

482
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,919
Speaker 2: I had, because the pre parole board told me I

483
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 2: have no chance unless I take responsibility. And so I

484
00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,479
Speaker 2: couldn't see it. And I mean I was walked around

485
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 2: like a zombie. I was just you know, being led

486
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: by my family and you know, I mean the lights

487
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:30,959
Speaker 2: and it was the best moment in my life, you know,

488
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,959
Speaker 2: like getting convicted, you know, twenty two years prior to that,

489
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 2: I didn't see that curveball coming. I didn't really see

490
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 2: this curveball coming too, because they told me the evidence

491
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 2: was gone. So when they found it, you know, it

492
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 2: was like, if it's not tampered with, I know, I'm okay.

493
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 2: Let me interject one thing real quick. If it was

494
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 2: up to the city, I would have never got exonerated.

495
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 2: We found out during the civil trial the ocmme's office,

496
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 2: when they was doing the testing and they was contaminating

497
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 2: they own samples, they was not able to come up

498
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,840
Speaker 2: with a result whether that was my DNA or not

499
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 2: because the sample that they had they was contaminating it.

500
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,399
Speaker 2: So whether it's being done deliberately or you know, just

501
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 2: in competence, it's still being done. And if you can't

502
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 2: get access to independent testing, which is what the Innocence

503
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 2: Project was able to do, instead of relying on just

504
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 2: the ocme's office, you're in a catch twenty two situation

505
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 2: because you can only believe the sworn documents that they

506
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 2: submit to the court. It's the same way when I

507
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 2: was fouling my motions pro say all those years, they

508
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 2: were swearing to the court that they did a search

509
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 2: and can't find the evidence.

510
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: It's terrifying, I mean, it's scary. Enough to think it

511
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: could get lost. Like even when your evidence was sitting

512
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,200
Speaker 1: in that warehouse, there could have been a flood, right,

513
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: there could have been anything, and you would be doomed.

514
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 2: But it wasn't. So when Live six came and they

515
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 2: cut a brother loose, like I said, it was like

516
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 2: my born day. That's like my second birthday now and

517
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 2: I look forward to that day and I cherish it.

518
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 2: I appreciate life so much more now because I realized

519
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 2: how quick we can have it snatched away from us,

520
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 2: just you know, on somebody's accusation, somebody's claim, and you

521
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 2: know how we really don't have any rights because that's

522
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,920
Speaker 2: what it came down to. You know, you're guilty until

523
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 2: you prove your innocence. That's the way the system is now.

524
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 2: So it was you know, bittersweet too at the end

525
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 2: of the day because I had lost so much, like

526
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 2: I said, both my parents. So it was bittersweet.

527
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: Forty five years old, you released out into the world.

528
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: No job. Ir fiance had moved on. I mean, I

529
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 1: can't blame her after twenty two years, but you know,

530
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: you hit the ground running anyway. Scholarship from the Third

531
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: Good Marshal Fund enabled you to roll and get it

532
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,479
Speaker 1: bes business administration, right. I remember meeting you back around

533
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: that time, and we started working as a youth mentor,

534
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 1: started dating, even water skiing in the Caribbean, eventually right

535
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: and graduating in two thousand and ate it. Of course,

536
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: you filed civil rights lawsuit and were awarded a lot

537
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: of money. I don't think there's any amount of money

538
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: that would be enough to justify the suffering that you

539
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: went through and your family went through. But the fact

540
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: is it's nice to see. I mean, unfortunately most exigneries

541
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: never get any compensation. It makes me happy to see

542
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: when somebody like you does at least get that monetary

543
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 1: reward so you can, you know, do the things that

544
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: you want to do.

545
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 2: And I'll get back though, and I try to help

546
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 2: that the exonves try to go out there and talk

547
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 2: about this issue because I could stay in my you know,

548
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 2: man cave and you know, stay depressed and stay focused

549
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 2: on the last forty years of my life. But it's

550
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 2: more about you know, letting people know there's something beat

551
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: out there and we could make things better. But we

552
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 2: all have to you know, stay you know, vigilant and

553
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 2: trying to make this possible.

554
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: And I'm glad you're out there doing it. Everything you're doing,

555
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: it's so important. People need to hear from you. You're

556
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: including right here, right now on this podcast. So now

557
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 1: getting towards the closing of the show, it's called closing arguments,

558
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: and it works like this. I'm gonna first of all,

559
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: thank you again for being here and for being such

560
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: a beacon of hope and for sharing your story. And

561
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 1: then I'm going to kick back in my chair, turn

562
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 1: off my microphone, leave my headphones on, and just listen

563
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: for anything else you want to share with me and

564
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 1: our audience.

565
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,600
Speaker 2: Thank you, Jason. I appreciate you guys and being able

566
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: to tell this story. It's a blessing because I think

567
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: this is, you know, one subject that all sane minds

568
00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 2: think alike. We should not have innocent people being wrong

569
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 2: fee convicted and locked up for anything. If there's any

570
00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 2: chance and any shred of evidence that proved us, I think,

571
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 2: you know, we should move mountains to exonerate, you know,

572
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 2: men and women, because you have a lot more woman

573
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 2: now that's being wrongfully convicted also. And and like I said,

574
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 2: I think this is one thing that you know, we

575
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 2: all agree about. But we just have to be diligent

576
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 2: and always reminding, you know, public officials that this is

577
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 2: a subject that affects each and every one of us,

578
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: and each time the opportunity arises, we must help people

579
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 2: in these situations, you know, while they in prison trying

580
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 2: to prove their innocence, and definitely when we come home,

581
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 2: because like you said, I had to hit the ground

582
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 2: running because it wasn't nothing there for me. I had

583
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,719
Speaker 2: a lot of help, fortunately, and unfortunately, a lot of

584
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: my you know, felt exonneries don't have that type of help,

585
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,840
Speaker 2: you know, whether it's you know where they got exalivated

586
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 2: or you know, their family or friends situation. It's so

587
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 2: important that you know, we all as a society try

588
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 2: to not only prevent this from happening in the future,

589
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 2: but when it does, make every opportunity to make these

590
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:21,240
Speaker 2: people hold again, you know, make advite they can't go

591
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 2: back and obtain what they lost, but moving forward we

592
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 2: can all make life better for us.

593
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. I'd like to

594
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: thank our production team Connor Hall, Jeff Cliburn, and Kevin Wartis,

595
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: with research by Lyla Robinson. The music in this production

596
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.

597
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,

598
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at

599
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 1: wrong Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On

600
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: all three platforms, you can also follow me on both

601
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: TikTok and Instagram at it's Jason Flahm. Ravel Conviction is

602
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: the production of Lava for Good podcast and association with

603
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: Signal Company Number one