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Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.

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Speaker 2: The thing I want my kids, and my grand kids

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Speaker 2: and whoever else is coming after me to really remember

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Speaker 2: is the importance of sharing your story. Thank sharing your

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Speaker 2: thoughts and your ideas because they are important not only

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Speaker 2: for you to stay, but because they also unlock something

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Speaker 2: for other people.

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Speaker 1: Today's episode is sure to provide you with motivation, inspiration,

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Speaker 1: or a fresh perspective. If you have any AHA moments

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Speaker 1: or appreciate anything from this episode, please leave us a

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Speaker 1: review to let us know we're on the right track. Also,

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Speaker 1: we release episodes every Friday, so be sure to subscribe

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Speaker 1: on iTunes and visit cultivatingheirspace dot com to access our

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Speaker 1: exclusive after show and other bonus content from the Patreon tab.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, a podcast dedicated to uplifting

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Speaker 3: women like you are your hosts doctor Dominique Brussard, a

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Speaker 3: college professor and psychologist.

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Speaker 4: And Terry Lomax, a techie and motivational speaker. In a

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Speaker 4: world where black women are often misrepresented and misunderstood, please

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Speaker 4: join us as we initiate authentic conversations on everything from

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Speaker 4: fibroids to fake friends, and create a safe space where

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Speaker 4: black women can just be.

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Speaker 5: Okay, Lady, today, we have a very special guest. She's

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Speaker 5: the Goat. Okay, I'm gonna say goat of all things,

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Speaker 5: but I'm gonna read her bios. You can learn more

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Speaker 5: about her if she is new to you. Doctor Joy

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Speaker 5: Harden Bradford is a licensed psychologist and the host of

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Speaker 5: the wildly popular mental health podcast Therapy for Black Girls.

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Speaker 5: She's also the author of Sisterhood Heels The Transformative Power

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Speaker 5: of Healing Community. Her work focuses on making mental health

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Speaker 5: topics more relevant and accessible for black women, and she

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Speaker 5: delights in using pop culture to illustrate psychological concepts. Named

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Speaker 5: by Glamour magazine as a game changer for her work

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Speaker 5: and the mental health field, she received her bachelor's degree

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Speaker 5: in psychology from Xavier University in Louisiana, her master's degree

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Speaker 5: in vocational Rehabilitation counseling from Arkansas State, and her PhD

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Speaker 5: in Counseling psychology from the University of Georgia. Her work

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Speaker 5: has been featured in Essence, Bards, MTV Today, Huffington Posts,

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Speaker 5: Black Enterprise, Refinery twenty nine, I'm Not dan Ya y'all, teen,

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Speaker 5: Bow Women's Health among others. Doctor Joy lives in Atlanta, Georgia,

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Speaker 5: with her husband and two sons. Doctor Joy, welcome back

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Speaker 5: to cultivating her space.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you so much for having me again.

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Speaker 2: It's an honor to chat with you again. You are

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Speaker 2: so welcome. We are so excited to have y as.

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Speaker 2: We are definitely looking forward to this conversation. And so

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Speaker 2: we will start with our quote of the day. And

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Speaker 2: Doctor Joy, these words will sound familiar to you, and

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Speaker 2: for those who have read your books Sisterhood Heals, these

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Speaker 2: words will sound familiar as well, because this quote comes

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Speaker 2: from the intro in your book. That thing black women

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Speaker 2: feel when we gather is a kind of glue, a

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Speaker 2: stabilizing force we've actively created out of the pain and

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Speaker 2: trauma of our lived experiences in order to hold us

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Speaker 2: up and together. And I'm gonna read that one more

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Speaker 2: time for the folks in the back, make sure you

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Speaker 2: heard this quote. That thing black women feel when we

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Speaker 2: gather is a kind of glue, a stabilizing force we

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Speaker 2: actively created out of the pain and trauma of our

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Speaker 2: lived experiences in order to hold us up and together. There,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Joy, when you hear your words reflected back to

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Speaker 2: you from your book, give us some more context and

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Speaker 2: tell us what comes up for you when you hear

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Speaker 2: these words. So I will start by saying, don that

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Speaker 2: that is still a very like weird experience to like

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Speaker 2: have somebody read your words back. It's like, oh, I

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Speaker 2: actually I actually wrote that. Oh, So I will just

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Speaker 2: start there. But I think so much of me, like

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Speaker 2: the motivation for writing the book, and as I was writing,

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Speaker 2: so much of it was about like how do I

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Speaker 2: put into language this thing that often feels like POI

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Speaker 2: to describe and like very intangible, but we know it

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Speaker 2: when we feel it, right, like when black women gather,

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Speaker 2: we can feel the energy, like there is something I

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Speaker 2: think just incredible about when black women gather. And so

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Speaker 2: that quote that you just read, I think was my

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Speaker 2: attempt to try to put some language to this thing

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Speaker 2: that it's so powerful but often intangible that happens.

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Speaker 5: Between black women. And it's such a beautiful way to

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Speaker 5: put it. I think we've all experienced that where you

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Speaker 5: whether it's in a church setting or a healing circle,

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Speaker 5: it's like there's something special here the maroom. Okay, so

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Speaker 5: doctor Joey, we're going to take you down memory, laying

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Speaker 5: a little bit Okay, the last team you appeared on

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Speaker 5: our show was the fall of twenty nineteen, four years

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Speaker 5: ago on season three, episode eight, and today you're on

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Speaker 5: season twenty two of our show. Also, the last time

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Speaker 5: we chatted, we talked about your journey, your glow up,

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Speaker 5: and you've flowed up even more since then. Okay, so

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Speaker 5: let's talk about that too. What we talked about. I

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Speaker 5: think in the interview you shared that you had left

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Speaker 5: your job a year prior and we're in full time,

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Speaker 5: the full time in your practice, and we were actually

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Speaker 5: recording in a library before work, Domini and we were

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Speaker 5: doing a bulk recording and recorded with you, and then

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Speaker 5: we interviewed Rachel Cargo that same day, just to kind

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Speaker 5: of bring it all together, because we know you interviewed

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Speaker 5: Rachel and you have a connection with her. So with

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Speaker 5: all that context, for those who might be new to you,

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Speaker 5: can you tell us a little bit about who you are,

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Speaker 5: your origin story, and how you became the doctor Joy

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Speaker 5: the goat that we see today. Wow, what a trip

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Speaker 5: down memory lane.

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Speaker 2: But also just like I also think like a beautiful

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Speaker 2: example of the connection. Right, So I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: doctor dom and I go way back, and then Rachel

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Speaker 2: and I have books that came out in the same

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Speaker 2: year and have all these other connections and.

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Speaker 5: Now I'm back here with you.

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Speaker 2: So just a beautiful example I think of sisterhood and

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Speaker 2: how it happens in that way, you know.

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Speaker 5: So for people who may be newer to me, I

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Speaker 5: am trained.

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Speaker 2: As a psychologist, as you talked about, and so much

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Speaker 2: of my work really has been focused on the black

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Speaker 2: community because it is through training that I realized, like

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Speaker 2: the conversations my mom and my aunties had about like

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Speaker 2: their nerves being bad and all of those kinds of

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Speaker 2: things like that was actually language for anxiety that they

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Speaker 2: didn't have language for yet. And so you know, it

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Speaker 2: really has felt like my mission for much of my

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Speaker 2: training to kind of use the things that I've learned

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Speaker 2: to be able to give back to the community. Like

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Speaker 2: I don't want to just have this knowledge and hoard

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Speaker 2: it for myself. I want to be able to use

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Speaker 2: it to help other people and help them to kind

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Speaker 2: of live better lives for themselves. And so my background

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Speaker 2: before Therapy for Black Girls was my full time job

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Speaker 2: was college counseling and what I still have a love

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Speaker 2: I love college students, but right Prior to becoming Therapy

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Speaker 2: for Black Girls full time, I was a director of

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Speaker 2: the counsel Center at Clark Atlanta, and on every campus

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Speaker 2: I was on, it was really important for me to

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Speaker 2: create spaces for the black women on campus to have

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Speaker 2: a place to go to talk about what was.

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Speaker 5: Going on with them. You know, y'all know all.

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Speaker 2: Of the stance, but you know, we know that there's

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Speaker 2: still a lot of stigma related to mental health in

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Speaker 2: the black community, and so it felt really important to

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Speaker 2: create a space for students to come in one see

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Speaker 2: that there's like a friendly faith in the counseling center

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Speaker 2: and like, oh somebody who might get me. I can

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Speaker 2: go there if I need help. And I really feel

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Speaker 2: like the work that I do now with Therapy for

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Speaker 2: Black Girls is an extension of that work. And in

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Speaker 2: some of those same conversations that we had in those

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Speaker 2: early days on campus is we are still having on

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Speaker 2: the podcast and throughout log and those kinds of things.

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Speaker 2: So I really feel like there is a kind of

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Speaker 2: straight through line to the work I was doing on

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Speaker 2: college campuses and connecting to the.

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Speaker 5: Work that I do now.

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Speaker 2: And thank you so much for all of the work

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Speaker 2: that you do and We know you've had so much

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Speaker 2: success with the Therapy for Black Girls podcast. What inspired

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Speaker 2: you to write your books Sisterhood Heels about black women's

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Speaker 2: sisterhood and friendship. Yeah, so, since The Hood Heels actually

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Speaker 2: was supposed to be our very first live experience for

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Speaker 2: Therapy for Black Girls, and of course it was happening

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty when everything shut down, right, and so

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Speaker 2: through conversations with my literary agent, she asked me like, well,

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Speaker 2: what were you planning to talk about that weekend, Like

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Speaker 2: what kinds of things did you want to have happened,

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Speaker 2: And that kind of became the outline for the book.

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Speaker 2: So the community had been asking, like, we really want

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Speaker 2: to get together, like when are we going to do

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Speaker 2: something in person? And my goal was to create a

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Speaker 2: weekend experience where people could kind of come and talk

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Speaker 2: about and experience. It's just the here that we already

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Speaker 2: talked about, like this this thing that happens when black

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Speaker 2: women gather.

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Speaker 5: And so I really feel like so much of the

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Speaker 5: foundation of.

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Speaker 2: The work of Therapy for Black Girls and the work

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Speaker 2: that I've done even before Therapy for Black Girls, it

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Speaker 2: builds on sisterhood like it is other women who have

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Speaker 2: encouraged me. And I really feel like there's so much

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Speaker 2: power and healing that happens when black women come together.

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Speaker 2: And I've seen that in the groups that I've run,

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Speaker 2: and you know, just even in the Therapy for Black

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Speaker 2: Girls community, and so it felt like a very natural

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Speaker 2: fit to actually work to write about sister in lod

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Speaker 2: because I do feel like that is the foundation of

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Speaker 2: therapy for black girls.

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Speaker 5: Talk about the power of the pivot, okay, because we

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Speaker 5: all have plans in twenty twenty, and it was like

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Speaker 5: a plan just trying to go to Bali yoah, I

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Speaker 5: still haven't been. I'm like that he but I love

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Speaker 5: the fact that you took the opportunity to transform how

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Speaker 5: you were going to deliver the message right because the

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Speaker 5: pandemic interrupted a lot of our plans. Now it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 5: we're going to pivot and we're going to create this book.

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Speaker 5: Look at God right stuff. You work it out together

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Speaker 5: and come together. So I have a question for you,

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Speaker 5: doctor Joy. I want to know when it comes to

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Speaker 5: like guidelines or housekeeping tips for the Sisterhood communities, what

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Speaker 5: comes to mind for you on how to protect that container.

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Speaker 5: I have a conflict resolution background, so I'm not trying

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Speaker 5: to like be a negative Nancy, as people say, but

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Speaker 5: I want to talk about some of the guidelines, but

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Speaker 5: also like how where does conflict resolution fit in within

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Speaker 5: that sort of community framework.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's an important question you asked, Terry.

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Speaker 2: I mean, because you know, the book is both a

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Speaker 2: celebration of like the things that we do well, but

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Speaker 2: also a gentle invitation for like how we feel the

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Speaker 2: correct and course correct some of the things that like

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Speaker 2: get in the way of sisterhood. And so one of

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Speaker 2: the things I talk about in the book, especially with

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Speaker 2: like so much online activity, and we know that sisterhood

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Speaker 2: is very digital in a lot of ways now that

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Speaker 2: it is really important for us to remember each other's

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Speaker 2: humanity behind these screens that we are interacting with.

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Speaker 5: Right, So it's very easy.

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Speaker 2: I think sometimes I kind of pile on that's something

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Speaker 2: that you see happening with a black woman. But I

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Speaker 2: encourage people to really take a step back and like remember,

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Speaker 2: like if this person were in your faith, or if

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Speaker 2: you saw this experience happening in real life, would you

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Speaker 2: be likely to go over and like be the twenty

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Speaker 2: fifth person to say some negative thing, or would you

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Speaker 2: like mind your business or even maybe try to help her, right,

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Speaker 2: And so I think it's really important for us to

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Speaker 2: remember each other's humanity and not the flatness that happens

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Speaker 2: when we're like interacting as avatars online, because I think

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Speaker 2: it's really easy to kind of get caught up in that.

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Speaker 2: One of the other kind of guidelines I like to

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Speaker 2: talk about in terms of sisterhood.

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Speaker 5: Is to praise publicly and critique privately.

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Speaker 2: And I think most of us are aware of like

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Speaker 2: conversations that happen outside of the house and then conversations

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Speaker 2: that happen inside the house, right, And so even if

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Speaker 2: you need to call a sister out or in with love,

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Speaker 2: does that have to happen in a way where other

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Speaker 2: people are kind of drawing attention to it, you know, Like,

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Speaker 2: is there a way that you could deliver that message

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Speaker 2: maybe privately through an email or pull somebody up side

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Speaker 2: and the post and kind of making a public spectacle

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Speaker 2: of critiquing another black woman.

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Speaker 4: Hey lady, it's Terry here, Dom and I want to

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Speaker 4: take a moment to thank you for choosing to listen

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Speaker 4: to our podcast. We love you for real, and we

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Speaker 4: want to give you a chance to learn more about

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Speaker 4: what's important to us, So tell us what you think

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Speaker 4: about this.

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Speaker 6: Imagine a world where you have a chance to get

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Speaker 6: featured on the Cultivating her Space podcast and share your business,

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Speaker 6: brand or perspective with millions around the globe. Imagine joining

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Speaker 6: our monthly virtual video check ins where you can connect

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Speaker 6: with like minded black women like you and share your

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Speaker 6: ideas and episode suggestions with Terry and I. Now, I

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Speaker 6: want you to imagine a world where you're in the

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Speaker 6: exclusive Cultivating her Space sanctuary Slack channel, and throughout your

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Speaker 6: day and week, you are conversing with us about what's

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Speaker 6: happening in your life and sharing funny gifts and or

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Speaker 6: personal wins.

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Speaker 4: How does that sound? Fully? This is up your alley, lady,

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Speaker 4: because we are taking things to the next level this year,

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Speaker 4: and we're doubling down on investing in our community. That

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Speaker 4: means you. We want to meet you, connect with you,

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Speaker 4: and create communities of genuine women who love on black

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Speaker 4: women and push our culture and movement forward. We launched

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Speaker 4: this podcast in twenty nineteen, and to date we have

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Speaker 4: not missed a week. We've been great stewards of our platform,

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Speaker 4: all while working full time and navigating our own ups

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Speaker 4: and downs. We release fresh new content every single Friday

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Speaker 4: like clockwork, and we have hundreds of valuable episodes and

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Speaker 4: workshops that can really help you up level your life. So,

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Speaker 4: we invite you to give back and help us push

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Speaker 4: this community effort forward. Visit Herspace podcast dot com and

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Speaker 4: click Patreon. You can learn more about our goals and

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Speaker 4: exclusive offerings on Patreon, and we highly highly encourage you

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Speaker 4: to join the Sister Friend here so that you can

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Speaker 4: get someone on one time with us. We also have

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Speaker 4: an option for you to donate on a one time

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Speaker 4: com and you can click that link that says Patreon.

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Speaker 4: All right, lady, we'll hop right back into the conversation.

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Speaker 5: Oh okay, m m okay.

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Speaker 2: So I know that there's a lot of folks, a

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Speaker 2: lot of ladies who are listening to this and they're like, wait,

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Speaker 2: say what now? So I can't message her, get in

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Speaker 2: those comments and publicly say what I need to say,

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Speaker 2: I need to do it privately. How does one go

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Speaker 2: about critiquing privately for someone that you don't You might

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Speaker 2: not know, but you're like, ooh, sis, we need to

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Speaker 2: talk about this. Well, you bring up a good point,

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Speaker 2: because I do think something that you need to think

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Speaker 2: about is like is your critique even necessary?

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Speaker 5: Right?

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Speaker 2: So, if you don't have a relationship with somebody that

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Speaker 2: would intimate that they would like listen to anything that

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Speaker 2: you have to say, you know, there is no personal

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Speaker 2: connection like what if making you feel like you need

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Speaker 2: to offer critique anyway? Right, Because of course we all

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Speaker 2: have thoughts and you know, ideas about like oh I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't do that if I were her or whatever, but

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Speaker 2: do you need to deliver it? Right? And so again

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Speaker 2: one of the things I talk about is like asking

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Speaker 2: like are you the one that needs to say something

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Speaker 2: and doesn't need to be said now? And is your

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Speaker 2: motivation for like giving some kind of critique actually driven

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Speaker 2: by something else?

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Speaker 5: And again, I think it is really easy to kind

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Speaker 5: of get caught up in like.

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Speaker 2: This piling on online because we see something and we're like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't wear that outfit, or she's making us look mad,

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Speaker 2: and you like all of those kinds of things. But

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Speaker 2: if you would not say this and deliver this critique

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Speaker 2: to this person in real life, you probably should not

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Speaker 2: offer it on line either, because I think again, when

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Speaker 2: we get behind these avatars and like again, our humanity

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Speaker 2: is just flattened online. Like you, it almost feels like

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Speaker 2: you are interacting with editors as opposed to like real people.

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Speaker 2: And so I think it is important to remember, like

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Speaker 2: if I saw this person in real life and they

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Speaker 2: had this outfit on what, I go up to her

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Speaker 2: and say, I wouldn't have want to know shoes with

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Speaker 2: that outfit, like most of us probably wouldn't. But online,

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Speaker 2: for some reason, we feel like we can say these

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Speaker 2: things to other people as if these are not actual

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Speaker 2: people with like feelings and emotions. And so to your point,

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Speaker 2: doctor Dom, I think if you don't feel like this

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Speaker 2: is some critique that this person will listen to because

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Speaker 2: you don't actually have a relationship, you should probably just

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Speaker 2: write it in your journal as opposed to try to

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Speaker 2: leave it in the comments.

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Speaker 5: I love that doctor Joy over here preaching y'all. Let

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Speaker 5: me just say, it's the introspection for me, Okay, It's like,

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Speaker 5: let me check in with myself well before I just

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Speaker 5: go project and give this feedback that may not be warranted.

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Speaker 5: So I love that. And then the ways that you

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Speaker 5: describe the all experience. I think that was just so

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Speaker 5: beautiful and so on point, because it often does feel flat.

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Speaker 5: And like you said, there are a lot of times

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Speaker 5: people what do they call them, Twitter fingers and stuff

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Speaker 5: like that, they don't want to say the stuff that

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Speaker 5: they say online in person most of the time. Right,

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Speaker 5: But it gives you instead of a liquid courage, I

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Speaker 5: guess we need another name for like the social media.

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Speaker 5: That's because answer digital courage, right, like it gives you this. Okay, so,

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Speaker 5: doctor Joy, this conversation is just getting started, but we

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Speaker 5: want to shift up the energy a little bit. I

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Speaker 5: don't think we had this segment when you came on

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Speaker 5: last time, if I'm not mistaken. So we want to

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Speaker 5: switch chuck a little bit. And because we recognize, appreciate,

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Speaker 5: and celebrate the multifaceted woman, and we believe that it's

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Speaker 5: okay to be bougie, classy and ratchet. You can dance

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Speaker 5: to strip club music and still be elegant. So we

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Speaker 5: want to invite you to the ou Blatchett segment. Do

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Speaker 5: you take on the challenge? I except, okay, yes, Now

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Speaker 5: that you you've agreed, we're going to tell you what

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Speaker 5: to expect So we're going to ask you three questions.

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Speaker 5: We're going to share three sentence completions, and then we

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Speaker 5: have three photos of you put up that we found

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Speaker 5: on social media.

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Speaker 2: Your facial.

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Speaker 5: Hold up, oh, the boundary. That is a boundary. So

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Speaker 5: doctor Joey, we want to get to choose to number out

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Speaker 5: of one in three and then we'll share that particular

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Speaker 5: photo and then we want you to describe the photo

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Speaker 5: for folks that are only tuning into the audio, and

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Speaker 5: then give us some context about the photo that we

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Speaker 5: wouldn't know just by looking at it. So we're in

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Speaker 5: We're going to ease into the's going to ease into

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Speaker 5: this segment. So the first question we have for you,

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Speaker 5: doctor Joy is what's the best piece of wisdom or

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Speaker 5: advice you've ever received.

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Speaker 2: I think the best piece of wisdom I've received was

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Speaker 2: from a business coach, Maya Eligus, I've worked with very

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Speaker 2: early in developing therapy for black girls, and she shared

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Speaker 2: something about there's often a message that comes through you

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Speaker 2: that is not for you. And so whenever I am

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Speaker 2: feeling anxious, are stuck in my head and like, oh, how.

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Speaker 5: Are people going to receive this? Should I do this?

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Speaker 5: Should I do that.

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Speaker 2: I pulled myself out of it by understanding that there's

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Speaker 2: something that there's a reason why I'm feeling drawn to

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Speaker 2: delivering some piece of content, some message, and it is

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Speaker 2: typically for somebody else, And so I offer that to

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Speaker 2: people because it's one of my favorite things that anyone

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Speaker 2: who's ever told me, and I live by that.

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Speaker 5: I love that.

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Speaker 2: Yes, okay, now that was all deep and it's so wise,

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Speaker 2: and this next question is so dot that right, Okay,

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Speaker 2: we contain multitude. It's okay, exactly exactly. Our next question,

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Speaker 2: doctor Joy, are you going to work or two steps?

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Speaker 7: Ooh?

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Speaker 2: That kind of depends on the location. So if you

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Speaker 2: know something, if the beat from the nine to nine

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Speaker 2: and the two thousands drops, then we you have entered

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Speaker 2: its work territory. But if we're just you know, doing

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Speaker 2: a little bit from Franky Beverly and meds and like

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Speaker 2: that kind.

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Speaker 5: Of thing, then that requires that you still shit. I

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Speaker 5: have been So you got the vibest Joy, Doctor Joy

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Speaker 5: passed the by check. Y'all, Doctor Joy passed the by check.

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Speaker 5: So our last question for this segment, Doctor Joy, is

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Speaker 5: get ready for this. Okay, what's the sexiest item you own?

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Speaker 2: I have some leopard boots that I pull out every

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Speaker 2: now and then, like with different outfits, and I feel

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Speaker 2: like they are pretty thick.

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Speaker 5: What kind of boots?

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Speaker 2: What they look like?

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Speaker 5: They booties?

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Speaker 4: Are?

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Speaker 5: They hide with.

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Speaker 2: Their moony their mooney because I gotta ns and I

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Speaker 2: can't always find they go there for it, so I

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Speaker 2: typically stick the book. Yes, they could give an outfit,

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Speaker 2: just that extra that it needs. I seen what you're

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Speaker 2: doing there. I see the vision. Okay, okay, And so

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Speaker 2: now we're gonna move to our sentence completion. Our first

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Speaker 2: sentence is one question or topic I wish people asked

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Speaker 2: me about more often.

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Speaker 5: Is ooh, jealousy and friendships? Oh okay, hold up, we're

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Speaker 5: about to change the whole episode topic to just cope.

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Speaker 5: That's a good one, Okay, doctor Joy, You're not going

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Speaker 5: to believe this. But our next sentence completion is what

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Speaker 5: I would tell you all, how about jealousy and friendship is?

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Speaker 2: Oh, what I would tell you all is that jealousy

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Speaker 2: is an emotion of just like any other, and there's

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Speaker 2: no need to feel a.

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Speaker 1: Shame by it.

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Speaker 5: Powerful. Thank you for that word.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: I feel like we need a whole episode on that topic. Alone,

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Speaker 2: but our final sentence completion. What I love most about

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Speaker 2: myself is my intuitiveness. I feel like that has served

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Speaker 2: me very well, both personally and professionally.

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Speaker 5: Amen to that. Come on, discignment, Come on, I got

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Speaker 5: feeling an instinct.

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Speaker 2: We appreciate you.

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Speaker 5: Okay, So, Doctor Joy, we got these pictures folded up

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Speaker 5: and they are cute. Oh, I'm so excited. I wish

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00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 5: we could cover them all, I really do. But if

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00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 5: you can choose a number out of one in three,

439
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,120
Speaker 5: maybe we'll them all choose it about a one in three,

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00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,440
Speaker 5: and then we'll reveal the photo. If you can describe

441
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 5: the photo and then give us some context that we

442
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 5: wouldn't know by looking at the photo. What num would

443
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 5: you like to choose. I'm gonna choose two. This is cute.

444
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 5: I think you're gonna like it.

445
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 4: Let's see.

446
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 5: I'm gonna go ahead and put it on the big

447
00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,159
Speaker 5: screen so you can see it, Dr Joy, and just

448
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 5: let me know once you can see it.

449
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 2: Oh, it was one of my favorite pictures.

450
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:51,880
Speaker 5: I love that it.

451
00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,160
Speaker 2: So you answer concept that you wouldn't know by seeing

452
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 2: the picture.

453
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 5: Well, for the people who are listening, if you can

454
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 5: just describe the picture first, and then we'll get into

455
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,159
Speaker 5: like some context that we wouldn't know by looking at it.

456
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 5: Got it.

457
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 2: So the picture is of myself and doctor Key Hallman,

458
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 2: who is one of my newest closest friends, and we

459
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 2: are doing a conversation and for an event that she

460
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,600
Speaker 2: kind of spearheaded called the Will to Be Will here

461
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 2: in Atlanta, and it was an opportunity for us to

462
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 2: talk about like women entrepreneurs and how we can really

463
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,479
Speaker 2: focus on our wellness perfect.

464
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 5: And then any context about this because you look like

465
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 5: I can only imagine what you're talking about right now,

466
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 5: but the last the look on your face like a

467
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 5: genuine laugh. What's the context that we don't know by

468
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 5: looking at this?

469
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,879
Speaker 2: Ooh, I don't even know what we were talking about.

470
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,160
Speaker 2: But the reason why I love this, this is how

471
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 2: doctor Key and I often are, like she is one

472
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 2: of those people that I feel so in the book

473
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 2: I talk about like you have not met all the

474
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 2: people who will love you yet, and I feel like

475
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 2: she brings that to life for me so much, because

476
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 2: like I said, she is like my newest close friend,

477
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,760
Speaker 2: and so this is often how we are like very

478
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 2: deep belly laughs and like it's Key Key in about whatever.

479
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,959
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think of any context I think if

480
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 2: I couldn't say something, I think.

481
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 5: I remember like this dress.

482
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 2: Though I love the color, this slit was higher than

483
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 2: I expected and I didn't know the thing set up,

484
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 2: and so I.

485
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,679
Speaker 5: Don't know that I would have gone this dress.

486
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 2: If I had known, I would have been facing forward

487
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 2: through the crowd with the front flit girl liit is slitting, okay.

488
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:32,199
Speaker 5: But lies the whole outfit. I love the outfit. Thank you,

489
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 5: thank you well, thank you for playing a lot. In

490
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:38,199
Speaker 5: this second, We're going to hop back into some questions,

491
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 5: and honestly, I feel like I just want to say,

492
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 5: way right into do you have any stories that you

493
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 5: can share or it could be hypothetical, maybe something from

494
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,360
Speaker 5: pop culture, a story around jealousy and friendship and how

495
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 5: one can cope. And I'm thinking about maybe I'm kind

496
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,200
Speaker 5: of leaving. I'm thinking about a perspective or a situation

497
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 5: where like a friend, because we hear about this often

498
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 5: dominat where a friend has maybe achieved something that the

499
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 5: other friend is also trying to achieve in their life.

500
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 5: But how do you like grapple with that when it

501
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,760
Speaker 5: comes to the jealousy or envy within that friendship.

502
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 2: This is so perfect and I have the perfect example,

503
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 2: and I feel like so timely because I just saw

504
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 2: this episode of Girlfriends yesterday or the day before, so

505
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 2: Girlfriends and I write about this in the book because

506
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 2: y'all know I love pop culture moments. The whole experience

507
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 2: of Tony from Girlfriends getting engaged before Joan from Girlfriends,

508
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 2: and we know, like Jones's story are kind of throughout

509
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 2: much of that show was like her desire to be

510
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 2: married with kids, and this happened for her best friend

511
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 2: before it happened for her, And so in real life,

512
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 2: I think that this also happens, right, like this idea

513
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,199
Speaker 2: that like maybe multiple people in the circle desire to

514
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 2: be partnered or whatever, and you know, time wide, it's

515
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 2: gonna happen most often for somebody first. And what happens

516
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 2: when you also desire this thing and it has not

517
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 2: happen and bringing yet And so I think in the

518
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 2: show we saw she did not handle that well. She

519
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,280
Speaker 2: threw herself into kind of like training for this marathon.

520
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,360
Speaker 2: You know, she had a break up with her own

521
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 2: partner during the shower and had him come up come

522
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 2: to pick up the box of his leftover stuff that

523
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 2: was left at our house on the day of Tony's

524
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 2: like wedding shower. So I often talk about the fact

525
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 2: that when we do not deal with things, things will

526
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 2: deal with us, and they pop up in all of

527
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 2: these ways that are often very disruptive to our relationships

528
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 2: and our friendships. And so we saw there was a

529
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 2: complete breakdown between Tony and Joan because there was not

530
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,640
Speaker 2: a space where Joe could actually admit until the wedding

531
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: day that she was really jealous of the fact that

532
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: Tony was getting this experience. And I think it's important

533
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 2: to you know, we talk about this all the time,

534
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,439
Speaker 2: like being able to hold space for two things to

535
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 2: be true at the same time, so you can be

536
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 2: really happy that your best friend is getting engaged and

537
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 2: also really said that this thing has not happened for you.

538
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 2: And I think what often happens is that we try

539
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 2: to be like where we kind of go through the

540
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 2: motions and like, oh.

541
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, i'll be abaite about her, I'll do.

542
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: These things, but we really are unsettled with the fact

543
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,160
Speaker 2: that this thing has happened, and we don't give voice

544
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,159
Speaker 2: to it. And so I think it's really important to

545
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 2: be able to cultivate space in our friendship to have

546
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 2: some of these more prickly conversations, right, because this exists too.

547
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 2: And so can you go to your friend and say, Hey,

548
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:22,920
Speaker 2: I'm really really happy for you and I want to

549
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 2: be able to show up for you, and I also

550
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,160
Speaker 2: am having a really hard time because I really want

551
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: this thing to happen for me too, and I'm sad

552
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:32,960
Speaker 2: that it hasn't. Right, So can you offer that as

553
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 2: a friend and can you also hear.

554
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:35,960
Speaker 5: That as a friend? Right?

555
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 2: Because I think a lot of us would also get

556
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 2: into a space of feeling very defensive of like, oh,

557
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: she's trying to ruin my wedding and you know all

558
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 2: of these things, and that's not the case at all.

559
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 2: The truth of the matter is that you can also

560
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 2: hold space for this to be true for her. And

561
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 2: so how can you all work together to be able

562
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 2: to navigate a prickly kind of area in your friendship?

563
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 2: And often what happens is that on the other side

564
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 2: of navigating this very difficult situation, the relationship is much

565
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 2: closer because you've been able to work through this thing

566
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:05,920
Speaker 2: that was kind of hard. And so i'd encourage people

567
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 2: to just be able to make space in your friendships

568
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,360
Speaker 2: for having some of these more difficult conversations.

569
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 5: Oh, yes, that's real, that's real.

570
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 2: That What I appreciate about what you shared is that

571
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 2: it's about the.

572
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: Both and.

573
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:28,199
Speaker 2: On both sides, because I think that sometimes it's the

574
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 2: owners tends to get put on the person who's feeling

575
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 2: both feeling's navigated by themselves, and I think it is

576
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: important for the other person to be able to sit

577
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 2: with it and navigate too, and that because that's part

578
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 2: of what the sisterhood is, right, exactly exactly. And So

579
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 2: when we think about the trials and tribulations, the ebbs

580
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 2: and flows of friendships, what advice would you have for

581
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 2: folks who are trying to come out of these quickly

582
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 2: conversations and maybe a conversation didn't go as well as

583
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: they hoped it would. Yeah, I mean, and that's real, right, Like,

584
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 2: as much as we practice conversations in our head, we

585
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 2: know that they don't always turn out, you know, beautifully

586
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 2: in real life. But I think that there are opportunities

587
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 2: to revisit conversations, right, So even if we had this

588
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 2: conversation on a Tuesday, maybe a month later, we revisited

589
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 2: and say like, hey, I'm left with some feeling of

590
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 2: not so easy about what we talked about, right Like, So,

591
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 2: I think it is just about kind of giving enough

592
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 2: time to like continue to visit conversations and to understand

593
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 2: like that may not be easy for somebody to hear.

594
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: So you can't expect that the person will immediately, you know,

595
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 2: like jump into like oh girl, no problem kind of thing,

596
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 2: right Like, It's okay for you to take some time

597
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: to be able to kind of digest what was said

598
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 2: and to figure out how you all can move forward

599
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 2: in your friendship. I also encourage people to think about

600
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 2: like the timing of conversations, like right so, while there

601
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 2: may never be a perfect time, like the night that

602
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: she gets engaged, is probably not the time, right so

603
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 2: let people kind of have their moment, you know, and

604
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 2: revisit it on some random like Thursday lunch date as

605
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 2: opposed to like the night that she gets engaged, because

606
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,800
Speaker 2: I think, of course, you are more likely to get

607
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 2: like a more positive response if you are not, you know,

608
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: kind of encroaching on a moment that is very important

609
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 2: for her.

610
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 5: Such a great point. Timing is everything when it comes

611
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,479
Speaker 5: to those prickly I like that prickly conversations. And then

612
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 5: doctor Joyce, speaking of sisterhood, can you talk to us

613
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 5: about or can you describe some of your cherished or

614
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 5: the cherished characteristics you have in your personal sisterhood and

615
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 5: what are some of the favorite traits about your friends? Ooh,

616
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 5: I think that where the places where I can be

617
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 5: like the most silly are the places I cherish. Like

618
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 5: I feel like, you know, my work kind of requires

619
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 5: me to show up in like full space for other people,

620
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 5: and you know sometimes that's kind of being silly, but

621
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 5: not most of them. And so I really value my

622
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 5: sisterhoods where I like don't have to kind of be

623
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 5: one where I can just kind of you know, be

624
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 5: listening to random rep from New Orleans and you know,

625
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 5: kicky in about our kids and like doing those kinds

626
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 5: of things. I really appreciate faces that allow me to

627
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 5: be authentic. That authenticity is is so important. And so.

628
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 2: When you think about sisterhood in general, right and all.

629
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 8: Of the joys that can come from that, what is

630
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 8: it about Black women specifically and the way we create

631
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 8: sisterhood that is so special or magical?

632
00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 5: I think, you know, some of we kind.

633
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 2: Of touched on in the beginning, Like I think because

634
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 2: of our history in this world, there is something that

635
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 2: connects us just by our lineage, right, Like the fact

636
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 2: that we are in this conversation together today means that

637
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 2: people far down the line have to traverse some tremendous

638
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 2: challenges for us to even be here. And so I

639
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 2: think there's something energetically and like ancestrally that connects us

640
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: that can't happen for other people because they don't have

641
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 2: this same shared history. But I think that there's just

642
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: something so powerful about the way black women show up

643
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 2: for one another. And it's not even a thought, like

644
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 2: it feels like it is this socialization and like just

645
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 2: you know, maybe watching your mom and your aunties and

646
00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 2: your grandma's like do these things. Like you know, like

647
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,280
Speaker 2: if a sister is struggling with her baby in the airport,

648
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 2: like it is automatic for me to kind of reach

649
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 2: into my bag to see if I got some first

650
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 2: snack from the kids that I can like offer to

651
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 2: the baby to kind of, you know, help to kind

652
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: of take the load off.

653
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 5: Or you know, if you see a sister like in front.

654
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: Of you and like you know, the card is declined

655
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 2: in Walmart or something like that, like oh can I

656
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 2: pay that for you? You know, like it just feels

657
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 2: like me kind of instinctually a lot of times kind

658
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 2: of show up for.

659
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 5: One another in that way. And I think that so

660
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 5: much of that is like nothing that you can teach.

661
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 2: It is something that you just have to kind of

662
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 2: live and kind of continue to pass on and so again,

663
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 2: you know, That's why I think it was really hard though,

664
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 2: like a good process, but a hard process to give

665
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 2: language to these things that it feels like.

666
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 5: You know, like how do we know to do these things?

667
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I think there is something really just powerful

668
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 2: about the ways we show up with one another.

669
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 5: That's such a good point. I feel like what amazes

670
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 5: me is how you can see people from you know,

671
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 5: the diaspora who are in different locations, but we have

672
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:34,240
Speaker 5: It's like, how did we all grew up to say?

673
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 5: You know, there are those certain instances I think about

674
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 5: how my grandt and this is a little render, but

675
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 5: I feel like my grandmother used to have that little

676
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 5: cookie jar or she would her sewing stuff in it.

677
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 5: But yeah, those like the blue ten yess. I'm like,

678
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 5: how did we all or you know, just different sayings.

679
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 5: It's just so interesting how we're just we're just lit. Okay,

680
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 5: it's nice over here being a black woman. I'm just

681
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 5: saying so after Joan, we're about to hop all around

682
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 5: with this interview because I am so curious about one

683
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 5: what has happened in your license twenty nineteen since we

684
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,280
Speaker 5: last chatted, And I want to know, like, what are

685
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,760
Speaker 5: you most excited for when it comes to your brand

686
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 5: and your impact because I know that you're just it

687
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 5: feels like you're just getting started even though you've achieved

688
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 5: so much. So what's happened since twenty nineteen? And then

689
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 5: what are you most excited for?

690
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 2: Oooh, twenty nineteen I feel like such an interesting time

691
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 2: marker because we've had a whole pandemic right Like it

692
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 2: just feels like and I know I'm not the only

693
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 2: one who feels this way, like the whole world was uprooted,

694
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 2: and so it feels very hard I think sometimes to

695
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:36,439
Speaker 2: even ground myself in time because that whole like two

696
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 2: to three year time span feels so like weird. But

697
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 2: I don't know if I talked about this on the

698
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 2: podcast before, but I have two sons and they are

699
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,879
Speaker 2: now seven and ten, but at the time they were

700
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 2: what seven and four or three, and so that meant

701
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 2: homeschooling for my husband and I, you know, so like

702
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 2: trying to do that.

703
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,000
Speaker 5: And also because we also know how.

704
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,080
Speaker 2: Mental health took off in the pandemic, right, so I'm

705
00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: trying to like be on a zoom call to do

706
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 2: a presentation for some company about like how to navigate

707
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 2: mental health during the pandemic.

708
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 5: Am I you know, seven year old is trying to

709
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,400
Speaker 5: do math on the computer.

710
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:10,799
Speaker 2: And I'm trying to like manage all of these fat

711
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 2: and so, you know, I feel like I am just

712
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:16,160
Speaker 2: now getting to a process where I'm kind of setting

713
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 2: like values for me and kind of like, Okay, what

714
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 2: kinds of things feel important for me to do, both

715
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 2: as a professional but also as a white fenom my

716
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 2: able two boys who are growing very quickly, you know.

717
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 2: So I think in terms of what is next for me,

718
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,040
Speaker 2: I really want to have more in person experiences. So

719
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 2: I loved, although I was very tired by the end,

720
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: but I loved going on tour this past summer for

721
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 2: Sisterhood Heels to kind of talk about the book and

722
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 2: you know, have some of these conversations, and I would

723
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 2: like to be able to do some version of that

724
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 2: in the future. And now that the book has been

725
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 2: in the world, and so I would like to kind

726
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 2: of have an opportunity to talk to people now that

727
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:53,840
Speaker 2: they've had a chance to read it, and like to

728
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 2: really kind of workshop and get into the nitty gritty

729
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 2: of like what happens in black women's relationship. So I

730
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 2: think you can be on the lookout for some in

731
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: real life kinds of experiences. And I also really want

732
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 2: to do some retreats because I feel like sisterhood kind

733
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 2: of naturally gives its way too, like, Okay, can we

734
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 2: all go together somewhere and like have fun and but

735
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: also have some very intimate conversations. So I think I'm

736
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 2: very excited about moving into that kind of phase of

737
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 2: the business. For in real life experiences, yes, okay, outside we're.

738
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 5: Here for it.

739
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, retreats, oh yeah, all things that will bring

740
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 2: the sisterhood together.

741
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 8: Yes.

742
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 2: And so how do you with thinking about all the

743
00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 2: things that you want to do and what you currently

744
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 2: have going on and so navigating your career, navigating having

745
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 2: a husband and two sons, how do you make time

746
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 2: for sisterhood? Because I know a lot of women are

747
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 2: trying to figure out, like how do I balance. Yeah,

748
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 2: I think, like a lot of people, if it is

749
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 2: not on my calendar, it does not happen. So I

750
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: try to be very intentional about like putting things on

751
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,640
Speaker 2: my calendar, you know, with some of my closest friends,

752
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 2: Like two of my closest friends also graduated from fave

753
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 2: here with me, and so we make it a point

754
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 2: to do homecoming every year. They also live in Atlanta

755
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 2: and also are the moms of sons, and so we

756
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 2: kind of get together, you know, pretty frequently to kind

757
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 2: of sports stuff with the kids.

758
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 5: We had a Super Bowl party, you.

759
00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 2: Know, So we try to like put it on our

760
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 2: calendar to kind of make it a point to be

761
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 2: intentional about spending time with one another.

762
00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 5: But I also love like random catchups.

763
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 2: Like doctor Key, who I talked about was in that

764
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 2: picture earlier, travels quite a bit for her work. But

765
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 2: every now and then she like she will be in

766
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 2: town for random Friday, We'll go get tacos. Oh, you know.

767
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 2: So I love those kind of random happenstance kinds of

768
00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 2: things too. But I think, again, because many of us

769
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 2: are so busy, it is really important to make sure

770
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 2: that you are putting things on your calendar month ahead

771
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 2: of time, even years ahead of time, so that you

772
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:04,520
Speaker 2: are protecting that time with your girls.

773
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,320
Speaker 5: Amen to that. And I'm with you. If it's not

774
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 5: on the calendar, it ain't gonna happen, it doesn't exist.

775
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 5: Like we gotta, yes, put stuff on the calendar. Now

776
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 5: after we have many of our listeners who have said that,

777
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 5: you know, these podcasts right that we have or just

778
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 5: podcasts out there for black women, that's kind of their

779
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 5: connection to sisterhood because of where they might live or

780
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 5: there are dynamics in their environment. Do you have any

781
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 5: advice for women who are looking to build that sisterhood

782
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 5: like coalition in their lives, like any insight on what

783
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 5: they can do to establish that. Yeah.

784
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 2: So, I mean we talked about digital spaces a little

785
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:42,360
Speaker 2: earlier and some of the you know, difficulties of existing,

786
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 2: but I think they can also be some incredibly beautiful

787
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 2: and powerful spaces. You know, like lots of people have

788
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 2: met very important and significant people to them and they've

789
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 2: not ever actually met in person, They've only ever connected digitally,

790
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 2: and so I think it's important not to kind of

791
00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: move quickly past like the benefit of digital space. So

792
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 2: we have our Sister Circle community and therapy for Black girls.

793
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 2: I know lots of other podcasts and organizations have some

794
00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 2: like membership community where you can actually connect with other

795
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 2: sisters across the world. So I think looking into those

796
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 2: options if it is difficult for you in real life.

797
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 2: But I think for a lot of people who don't

798
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 2: necessarily living places where like there are not a lot

799
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 2: of black women, I think for a lot of us

800
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 2: we can just look in the background of our lives

801
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 2: because I think for a lot of us there are

802
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 2: people in our lives that we may be kind of

803
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 2: casually see.

804
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 5: So like the mom.

805
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 2: Who is you see all the time at carpool, or

806
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 2: another sister that you see in pilates class, right, Like,

807
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 2: y'all may exchange small pleasantries.

808
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:38,600
Speaker 5: But it kind of stops.

809
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 2: There is there an opportunity for you to take those

810
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 2: relationships a little further. So could you say, like, heny,

811
00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: would you like to grab a smoothie after pilates there

812
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 2: something like that, just to see if there is a

813
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 2: continuing connection that can be made there. Now, I like

814
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: to tell people, you got to be realistic with your expectations, right,

815
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 2: because this might be a new best friend or it

816
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 2: might have just been a smoothie and y'all have a

817
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 2: good keeping, right, and so don't go into it thinking like, Okay,

818
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 2: this is going to be my new best friend forever,

819
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 2: because then you get really wonky. I think in terms

820
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 2: of like being really stressed out and putting too much

821
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 2: on it, but just naturally getting to know people to

822
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 2: see if there is a connection beyond you know, just

823
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 2: seeing them in the carpool line. And so with a

824
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:19,840
Speaker 2: little bit of effort, some of the people in the

825
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 2: background of our lives could maybe move to the foreground.

826
00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:25,839
Speaker 2: But we got to be willing to face rejection, which

827
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 2: I think is difficult for a lot of us, right,

828
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 2: like the idea that this person might not be interested

829
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 2: in grabbing a smoothie, or we go for the.

830
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:33,319
Speaker 5: Smoothie and I don't really like her.

831
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 2: You know, like you got to be willing to kind

832
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 2: of put yourself out there because that's the only way

833
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 2: that you're going to be able to make some of

834
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 2: these new connections. I appreciate those tips because I think

835
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 2: when I look at the last few years and with

836
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:58,240
Speaker 2: everybody being inside and not necessarily really having the opportunity

837
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 2: to connect in real life with other people.

838
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 5: I think it is hard, and even.

839
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,240
Speaker 2: Those of us who came up before the digital age,

840
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 2: it can still be hard for us to initiate that

841
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 2: let's go grab that smoothie after Pilate's class. And so

842
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 2: when you think about the people who might experience rejection, right,

843
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:30,640
Speaker 2: or maybe they have a friendship that is now evolving

844
00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:36,919
Speaker 2: and is not benefiting either person anymore, what tips would

845
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,920
Speaker 2: you have for them to kind of move forward to

846
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 2: heal to grieve the ending of a friendship? Listen, this

847
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 2: is a whole different spinoff episode because I think unfortunately

848
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 2: so many of us have found ourselves here, right like

849
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 2: the friendship, the ending of a friendship, the dissolution of

850
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 2: a friendship that was once maybe they're in meaningful to you.

851
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 2: And I think the part that people often miss here

852
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 2: is actually giving themselves time to grieve, right. And I

853
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 2: think society gives us a lot of messages about like

854
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 2: friendships that I think are not accurate or don't actually

855
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: give credence to how important they are. And so when

856
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 2: we think about like the end of a friendship, what

857
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 2: happens is that you are often experiencing what we call

858
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:26,600
Speaker 2: disenfranchised greed. Right. So this enfranchise. Greed is Greek, that is,

859
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 2: it doesn't have the same like socializations and rituals related

860
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 2: to other losses. Right, So we know, for like the

861
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:36,280
Speaker 2: loss of a person, there's a funeral, there's a repath.

862
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 5: Like there's all these fitting with you, and like those

863
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 5: kinds of things.

864
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 2: But there are other losses in our lives that people

865
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 2: just kind of want to push over that then make

866
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 2: us disconnected from the grieving experience. And the ending of

867
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: a friendship is one of those one of those experiences.

868
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 2: And so I think it is important when there is

869
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 2: an ending that you give yourself time to grieve and

870
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 2: understand like, this is a significant loss, likely because this

871
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 2: person meant a lot to you, and there are whole

872
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 2: pieces of your world now that no longer exist because

873
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 2: you are no longer in community with this person. And

874
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 2: so I think the first step is really giving yourself

875
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 2: the time and space to greet this laws and to

876
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 2: surround yourself with people who are going to take that

877
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 2: law seriously, because sometimes people will say like, oh, you

878
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 2: got plenty of friends, like it's no big deal, or

879
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 2: oh I never liked her anyway, like you better off

880
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 2: without her, like people think. I think people think that

881
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 2: those types of things like are well intentioned and like

882
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 2: that's gonna.

883
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 5: Help you, but what it all it really does.

884
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 2: It make you feel worse and like now you don't

885
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 2: even have anybody to talk to about this thing that

886
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,800
Speaker 2: is really hurtful to you. So I think it's important

887
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 2: to find people, whether that is other people in your circle,

888
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 2: are a therapist or some kind of community where you

889
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 2: could talk about how important this person was to you

890
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 2: and how sad you are about the fact that this

891
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 2: is ending.

892
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 7: And I also think that it's important to know that

893
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 7: sometimes friendships do in right, and it doesn't always have

894
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 7: to be this like ugly thing that happens right, Like

895
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 7: we know betrayals happen, of course.

896
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:02,799
Speaker 5: But sometimes like relationships just.

897
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 2: Run their course and you find yourself and two different

898
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 2: trajectories and like it just doesn't make sense.

899
00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 5: Anymore, and it's okay to time to let each other

900
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:11,359
Speaker 5: go with love.

901
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 2: Like it doesn't have to be this like weird, difficult,

902
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 2: painful kind of conversation, though it may still be sad,

903
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,359
Speaker 2: but it doesn't have to be a big deal if

904
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 2: a friendship has to end.

905
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:22,800
Speaker 5: But I think you do need to give yourself the

906
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:23,840
Speaker 5: time and space agree.

907
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:28,879
Speaker 2: That is so important and I thank you for acknowledging

908
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 2: that and what that can look like. And I have

909
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,439
Speaker 2: a follow up question because I know it's gonna come up.

910
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:40,319
Speaker 2: So lots of us are in friendship circles, right, So

911
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:45,920
Speaker 2: there's a group of us, and what happens is two

912
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:51,800
Speaker 2: people in the circle have decided to no longer be friends.

913
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,800
Speaker 5: How would you suggest.

914
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 2: Everyone else in the circle kind of engage with that,

915
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 2: because maybe they still want to be friends with the

916
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 2: two individuals that don't connect anymore. M h. I love

917
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,239
Speaker 2: that Terry has to take a sip of water on

918
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 2: this question because the girls are fighting, as they say, right,

919
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 2: But I think that this is very real for those

920
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 2: of us who do have circles that we know, again

921
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 2: because we are human, we're not actually robots.

922
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 5: We are human.

923
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 2: Things happen, and like people, you know, decide they don't

924
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 2: want to be in relationship with one another. And I

925
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 2: think that this is again a place where we have

926
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 2: to have some of those difficult conversations and have very

927
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 2: clear ideas about boundary setting. So you know, if there

928
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 2: are some people in their circle that and I think

929
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 2: it's fair. I don't think it's good to like pick

930
00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 2: side right, like, because even though there's a circle of you,

931
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:47,840
Speaker 2: you likely also have individual relationships. And so if everybody

932
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 2: else in their circle still wants to be friends with

933
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 2: friend A even though friends C doesn't want to be

934
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 2: friends with her anymore, I think that that's totally fine.

935
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 2: But I think the other people in their circle have

936
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 2: to be very fair about like not trying to like

937
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 2: force friend AID to come back over if Friends A

938
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 2: you're gonna be there, and to have conversations with them

939
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 2: separately about like how do you all want to handle this?

940
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 2: You know, And it may be it may make things

941
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 2: kind of difficult for a while, right, because then we

942
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 2: can't all go to that happy hour. Maybe now we

943
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,359
Speaker 2: got to do two different versions of a happy hour,

944
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 2: so the whole system will have to adjust. But I think,

945
00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 2: you know, as people who love one another in a friendship,

946
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 2: I think that you can have some conversations where everybody

947
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: still feels like they are getting their needs met, even

948
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 2: if it may be a little difficult for a while.

949
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 5: Such great advice, and I had you had to take

950
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 5: some water on that one, and so I was like,

951
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 5: that is so true. It happens, right, And I'm glad

952
00:46:37,680 --> 00:46:40,279
Speaker 5: you touched on choosing side. I was going to ask about, like,

953
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 5: what is your perspective on that, because people do that

954
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 5: and then it's like, dang, I really like this person

955
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 5: and connect with them, but now because the friend groups like,

956
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,560
Speaker 5: we're not follow with see now you can't, so right,

957
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 5: thank you for covering that, doctor Jorye. Now, we said

958
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,959
Speaker 5: earlier that Glamor magazine has named you as a game

959
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,240
Speaker 5: changer for your work and providing black woman the resources

960
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 5: to improve their mental health. What would you say that

961
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 5: you've learned about yourself as you've grown in your business,

962
00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 5: you're impacting your reach.

963
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:09,439
Speaker 2: Ooh, I feel like I have learned so much well

964
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 2: one I in writing the book. I did not realize

965
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 2: how much of a perfectionist ice until I was in

966
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 2: the book writing process, and so therapy has been incredible

967
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 2: for me to kind of like help to release some

968
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 2: of those expectations and ideas about like what kinds of

969
00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 2: thing makes sense and like what kind of offering is

970
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 2: actually valuable.

971
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,359
Speaker 5: So I never thought I spent so much of.

972
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 2: My therapy time during the book writing process talking about

973
00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 2: the book writing process, because of course it's a metaphor

974
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:38,600
Speaker 2: for like all these other things in your life that

975
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 2: just didn't have an avenue to come out. So that

976
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 2: was an incredibly eye opening experience. In all the conversations

977
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 2: I had in therapy. I also have learned, like kind of,

978
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,800
Speaker 2: I would say, how to be an entrepreneur. Like I

979
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 2: never set out to kind of build what has happened.

980
00:47:55,680 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 2: And while it has been, like I would say, mostly

981
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: a fun adventure, it's also been really hard, you know,

982
00:48:01,200 --> 00:48:03,879
Speaker 2: because my vision for like what my life would be

983
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 2: kind of like probably ten years ago, was that I

984
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,279
Speaker 2: would have a cute little private practice somewhere, you know,

985
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:11,919
Speaker 2: seeing a couple of clients and then doing the mom

986
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 2: and wife thing. And now I have this whole team

987
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: of twelve people and you know, doing all this traveling

988
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 2: and all these things, and it just never is what

989
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:21,479
Speaker 2: I would have built or what I, you know, would

990
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,240
Speaker 2: have desired for my life, but it is what has happened.

991
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:26,440
Speaker 2: And so I feel like I've also kind of learned

992
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,000
Speaker 2: how to be an entrepreneur, but also really want to

993
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 2: do business in a way that isn't like all the

994
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 2: businesses I've been in, you know, So I feel like

995
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 2: I'm trying to like establish this rhythm of you know,

996
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 2: like managing people and like establishing a culture where people

997
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:43,600
Speaker 2: like want to show up to do good work because

998
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 2: it's really important for me that we do good work

999
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 2: because we are in service of black women and girls,

1000
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 2: and so developing a company culture where people kind of

1001
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 2: feel validated and seeing and even if we have to

1002
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 2: have difficult conversations like, we can do that with love,

1003
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 2: you know. So I feel like I've also learned like

1004
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 2: how to be an entrepreneur that like develops my own

1005
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:06,399
Speaker 2: kind of thing, which have been really cool. Oh yes,

1006
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:11,200
Speaker 2: I love that And I appreciate what you're sharing because

1007
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 2: Terry and I talk often behind the scenes in our

1008
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:20,839
Speaker 2: business of like how we can create culture, a work

1009
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:24,280
Speaker 2: culture that is different from what we have seen before.

1010
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 2: And So when you think about all that you have

1011
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:33,920
Speaker 2: learned in your journey so far and what you're trying

1012
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:41,320
Speaker 2: to build and create, what would you suggest for women

1013
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 2: who are in spaces where it's not what they want,

1014
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:50,000
Speaker 2: it's not what they desire, they don't feel seen or

1015
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 2: heard or valued. Would you suggest for them in navigating

1016
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 2: that type of situation in the work environment. Yeah, you know,

1017
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 2: actually we will find ourselves in those kinds of spaces

1018
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 2: sometimes because of this whole capitalist.

1019
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 5: Society that we live in.

1020
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 2: Like we know, we got to work to kind of

1021
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 2: keep a roof over our head and like do all

1022
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 2: of those things. But I also think it's important to

1023
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 2: kind of minimize as much as you can, like the

1024
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,720
Speaker 2: impact that work has on the rest of your life.

1025
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 2: And I think sometimes that it's out of balance for

1026
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:23,640
Speaker 2: us because we spend so many hours, like in the office,

1027
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 2: are doing some kind of work stuff that it begins

1028
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 2: to kind of take over our whole life. But you know,

1029
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:31,839
Speaker 2: Tony Marrison has this beautiful quote around about you are

1030
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 2: not the work that you do, You are you, And

1031
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 2: so I think it's important to kind of have some

1032
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 2: kind of balance between like showing up and kind of

1033
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:40,839
Speaker 2: doing what you need to do to keep your check

1034
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 2: coming every month, but also cultivating these other spaces in

1035
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,359
Speaker 2: your life where you really feel affirmed and valued. And

1036
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:49,919
Speaker 2: if that cannot happen in work, how can you put

1037
00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 2: more of your energy and time into making sure that

1038
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:53,920
Speaker 2: that's happening in other places in your life.

1039
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, and yes, that is such great insight. And

1040
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,400
Speaker 5: doctor Joyce, we you know, come to a close with

1041
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,959
Speaker 5: this conversation. We just want to talk a bit about

1042
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 5: legacy and impact. When you think about your legacy your impact,

1043
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 5: and let's just like fast forward, We're gonna think big

1044
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 5: fit your fast forward down the line. Like your descendants

1045
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 5: are consuming your content, they're reading your book, they're tuning

1046
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 5: into the podcast. So what are some of the things

1047
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 5: you want them to know and remember about who you are,

1048
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 5: who you were, what you stood for in life? What

1049
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:26,680
Speaker 5: a beautiful question.

1050
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 2: I feel like the thing I want, you know, my

1051
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:32,719
Speaker 2: kids and my grandkids and whoever else is you know

1052
00:51:32,760 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 2: coming after me to really remember is like the importance

1053
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 2: of sharing your story and kind of like sharing your

1054
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 2: thoughts and your ideas because they are important not only

1055
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 2: for you to stay, but because they also unlock something

1056
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 2: for other people. And I feel like, again going back

1057
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 2: to that early story that you talked about, like you,

1058
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:52,440
Speaker 2: if You're and me and then if bring Rachel, like

1059
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,239
Speaker 2: there is I don't think any coincidence. It is all

1060
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 2: about connectedness, and so I hope that they will kind

1061
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:01,880
Speaker 2: of take me examples of things that I've shared and

1062
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 2: also feel empowered to share their own stories and to

1063
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 2: be of service to the community.

1064
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 5: Oh yes, well, doctor Joy.

1065
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 2: As always, it has been a pleasure we have thoroughly

1066
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:22,360
Speaker 2: enjoyed this conversation and wish we could sit in conversation

1067
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 2: with you for hours like this is just a Yes,

1068
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:26,520
Speaker 2: it's what we needed.

1069
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:28,120
Speaker 5: It's the sisterhood that we needed.

1070
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 2: And so for our listeners out there for now, if

1071
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 2: they weren't before, they know now who you are, tell

1072
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 2: them how they can find you, how they can connect

1073
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 2: with you, how they can join the sister circle, and

1074
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,160
Speaker 2: where can get your book. Yes, thank you so much,

1075
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:51,319
Speaker 2: it has been such a pleasure. I love talking with

1076
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 2: you all. Thank you again for having me. You can

1077
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 2: find me all across the socials at Hello doctor Joy,

1078
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 2: so Twitter, Instagram, a little bit of TikTok. I am

1079
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,560
Speaker 2: a Hello doctor Joy and all of those places. You

1080
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,800
Speaker 2: can find all things system knit heels at Sister Nitiels

1081
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 2: dot com so you can go there to order a

1082
00:53:08,080 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 2: copy of the book, but also please patronize your local

1083
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 2: bookstores and indie bookstores to get a copy of Sister

1084
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:17,280
Speaker 2: Nick Fields. And then everything therapy for Black Girls related

1085
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 2: you can find at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com, so

1086
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 2: you'll find our therapist directory there if you're interested in

1087
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 2: connecting with a therapist in your area and if you're

1088
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 2: interested in joining the sister circle, or if you are

1089
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 2: interested in listening to the podcast, you could find all

1090
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 2: of that again at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com.

1091
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 5: Thank you so much, doctor Joy. Thank you.

1092
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:41,080
Speaker 3: Hey lady, it's doctor dom here from the Cultivating her

1093
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:45,120
Speaker 3: Space podcast. Are you currently a resident of the state

1094
00:53:45,200 --> 00:53:50,600
Speaker 3: of California and contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well, if so,

1095
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Speaker 3: please reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.

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Speaker 3: That's d R D O M I I que b

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Speaker 3: r ou Ssard dot com to schedule a free fifteen

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Speaker 3: minute consultation. I look forward to hearing from you. Thanks

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Speaker 3: for joining us today. Please note that our show may

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Speaker 3: contain conversations about self help, advice, self empowerment, and mental health,

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00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,240
Speaker 3: but is by no means meant to be a substitute

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Speaker 3: for an ongoing formal relationship with a trained mental health provider.

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00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 3: If you are someone you know is in need of

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00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 3: mental health care, please visit a Therapy for Black Girls

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00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 3: directory psychology today or contact your insurance provider.

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Speaker 5: If you liked what you heard and want to keep

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Speaker 5: the conversation going, visit our website at herspacepodcast dot com

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Speaker 5: and be sure to click the Patreon tab to get

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Speaker 5: access to video content, bonuses, and our weekly after show

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Speaker 5: and before we Meet again, Repeat after Me.

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Speaker 1: My thoughts create my reality.

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Speaker 5: Today, I choose thoughts that empower and uplift me