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Speaker 1: He said, we are going young. That's the message to fans,

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Speaker 1: we are going young. They never once said that meant uncompetitive.

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Speaker 2: Welcome into North Side Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast.

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Speaker 2: I'm Sahare Sharma. Today's episode we Patrick Mooney and I

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Speaker 2: are joined by Derek Gould. Derek is the long time

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Speaker 2: Cardinals beat writer for the Saint Louis Post Dispatch Award

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Speaker 2: winning beat writer. Why did we decide to talk Cardinals?

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Speaker 2: We just find that they're at a fascinating point in

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Speaker 2: building that team. They're not calling it a rebuild, it's

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Speaker 2: a reset. According to Derek and the people with the Cardinals.

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Speaker 2: That should sound familiar to Cubs fans. That's not a rebuild,

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Speaker 2: and just the decision to make drastic changes to the

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Speaker 2: front office. Player development is a big area that the

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Speaker 2: Cardinals are focusing on where they fell behind. This should

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Speaker 2: sound familiar to Cubs fans and I think, and I

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Speaker 2: asked Derek about it, I think it's hugely relevant to

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Speaker 2: the Cubs because if this is a significant change in

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Speaker 2: direction as far as one lost record on the field

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Speaker 2: for the major league team one, two, three, however long

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Speaker 2: it takes, however, long the Cardinals are down, the Cubs

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Speaker 2: have to take advantage, right, the Cubs have to take

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Speaker 2: advantage of the Cardinals being down. The Pirates and Reds

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Speaker 2: are the young and talented, sure brewers, that's the team

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Speaker 2: they're chasing, But the Cardinals are perennially have been the

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Speaker 2: team that kind of set the example in the n

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Speaker 2: EL Central the Cubs. If they're down, the Cubs have

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Speaker 2: to take advantage and be more aggressive and make sure

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Speaker 2: that they're at the top. Do all they can to

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Speaker 2: get to the top. That's that's where how I look

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Speaker 2: at this with the Cardinals. With regards to the Cardinals,

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Speaker 2: let's get to our conversation. It's a long one. We thought,

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Speaker 2: Derek knows this organization inside and out, so let's get

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Speaker 2: right to it. Derek Gould with the Saint Louis Post Dispatch.

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Speaker 3: Derek, thank you for joining us.

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Speaker 4: We always read your coverage and enjoy hearing your thoughts.

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Speaker 4: But I think both of us kind of looked at

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Speaker 4: what's going on in Saint Louis and had.

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Speaker 3: Echoes of the Cubs.

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Speaker 4: Trying to kind of reinvent themselves over the years here,

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Speaker 4: and I was just curious maybe to start, like when

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Speaker 4: you look back, obviously you've covered the Cardinals for a

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Speaker 4: long time and have deep institutional knowledge, like what were

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Speaker 4: sort of the the moments or turning points that led

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Speaker 4: up to this eventual transfer of power at Bush Stadium.

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Speaker 1: Wow, yeah, I guess how far back do you want

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Speaker 1: to go?

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Speaker 3: You know?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you have gosh. I mean, you could go

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Speaker 1: back to the tragedy, right, which is Oscar Taveris's death

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Speaker 1: there in twenty fourteen, and then the Cardinals trading for

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Speaker 1: Jason Hayward. I think maybe the you know, the the

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Speaker 1: the inflection point that would involve the Cubs has mostly

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Speaker 1: to do with Hayward choosing the Cubs over the Cardinals.

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Speaker 1: You know, this was the Cardinals model for so long

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Speaker 1: had been trade for a guy, bring him in, sell

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Speaker 1: him on, staying, extend him right, And it was you know,

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Speaker 1: and there were there were examples where that didn't work,

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Speaker 1: but most of them were like they spent you know,

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Speaker 1: the player and the team spend some time together and decided, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're not for each other, like we'd like to move on.

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Speaker 1: This was a This was a case where Hayward had

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Speaker 1: a remarkable season. He was part of a really good team,

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Speaker 1: one of the best run prevention teams that I've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, borrowed, you know, excuse the comparison,

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Speaker 1: but I mean that Cardinals team in twenty fifteen was

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Speaker 1: like the eighty five Bears of baseball. They just were

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Speaker 1: suffocating when it came to run prevention. A lot of

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Speaker 1: that had to do with defense, and one of the

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Speaker 1: best defensive players was Jason Hayward, who also had a

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Speaker 1: real second half offensively, and it was like this is

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Speaker 1: this is going to work, and like he's connected with

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Speaker 1: his hit. The hitting coaches, you know, Bill Miller, John

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Speaker 1: Maybury at the time, and it was just was like okay, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then the Cardinals were going to make this offer

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Speaker 1: unlike they'd ever made before with the accept to a

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Speaker 1: position player. You know, they had David Price that they

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Speaker 1: thought was another deal, which maybe is another inflection point

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Speaker 1: for them when David Price said yeah, I'm gonna come

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Speaker 1: to the Cardinals and then the next day signed with

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Speaker 1: Boston at a rate that just could not the Cardinals

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Speaker 1: couldn't match. Dobrowski just came over the top to get him.

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Speaker 1: But I really think it is Hayward. I think I

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Speaker 1: think it's Hayward and you know, the initial rush and

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Speaker 1: performance of the team. In response to his younger core comment,

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Speaker 1: if you guys remember that, and you know him choosing

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Speaker 1: a deal that I think ultimately was more lucrative for him,

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Speaker 1: but was not guaranteed to be more lucrative for him.

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Speaker 1: The Cardinals had the bigger, guaranteed offer, and for them

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Speaker 1: to like go, Okay, we're gonna do this for a

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Speaker 1: position player. We're going to do this for a guy

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Speaker 1: who's been here, who's shown us, you know, and then

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Speaker 1: he chooses to go elsewhere. That was like a crack

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Speaker 1: in the model. That was that was That was it.

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Speaker 1: That was the fissure. And then you see them, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the in the subsequent years think about it like

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Speaker 1: they're like they just were desperate to get a cleanup hitter.

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Speaker 1: They wanted Christian Yelich. That was their preferred get, but

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Speaker 1: the Marlins weren't offering it. The Marlins were controlling who

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Speaker 1: they you know, they weren't offering him, and they they

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Speaker 1: were controlling who they were offering, and they want to

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Speaker 1: get Stanton off the books first. So the Cardinals had

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Speaker 1: a deal in place for Stanton. He said, no, that

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Speaker 1: makes another one who said no, he wanted to go

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Speaker 1: to the Yankees, of course, but the Cardinals had a

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Speaker 1: deal in place the Marlins agreed to, and then that

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Speaker 1: deal became the structure for the Azuna deal that they

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Speaker 1: eventually did make because they were unsure if they would

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Speaker 1: ever get the chance to trade for Yelich and they

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Speaker 1: did not want to leave that musical chair off season

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Speaker 1: without a seat because the alternative. The Giants and the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals were in the same conversations, right, and the Cardinals

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Speaker 1: traded for Marcela Zuna. And what did the Giants do?

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Speaker 1: They signed Andrew McCutcheon. So these were the choices that

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Speaker 1: the Cardinals were kind of looking through, and their preference

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Speaker 1: was to go sign Azuna, who was coming off a

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Speaker 1: ferocious year, I mean just really a tremendous year. And

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Speaker 1: then he just didn't he didn't work out here, like

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Speaker 1: he didn't perform like he did with the Marlins or

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Speaker 1: like he has with Atlanta and that so and it

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Speaker 1: cost him Sandy al Contra and Zach Gallon and the

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Speaker 1: list goes on, right, Okay, So you see how like

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Speaker 1: the fissier became a gap, and then the gap became

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Speaker 1: a race to cover it, and then the lessons of

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Speaker 1: Heyward leaving and not wanting to keep Azuna became we

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Speaker 1: got to prove that we're still a destination team. And

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Speaker 1: Paul Goldschmid, they trade for him and he signs the extension. Okay,

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Speaker 1: models back on track. Oh, Nolan Arnado, once out of Colorado,

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Speaker 1: he's willing to come. He's eagerly he's eagerly wanting to

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Speaker 1: come to the Saint Louis. He's wanting to make this

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Speaker 1: where he's willing to manipulate and change and adjust and

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Speaker 1: negotiate his contract to be a Cardinal. Okay, this is it.

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Speaker 1: We're We're back on the map. The Cardinals are back

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Speaker 1: on the map. They they they're they're destination team again.

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Speaker 1: But in the process of that, they obviously pushed their

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Speaker 1: major league roster and their major league payroll away. That

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Speaker 1: a lot of times we wondered, like, well, when are

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Speaker 1: you why are you stopping one step short of being

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Speaker 1: a juggernaut. Why are you stopping one step short of

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Speaker 1: being a juggernaut. And they would they would point to

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Speaker 1: the spending, they would talk about the commitment to the years,

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Speaker 1: you know, the the times that they were just pitching light.

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Speaker 1: They thought that they could rely on a system that

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Speaker 1: to produce pictures and it just wasn't anymore. And so

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Speaker 1: that's the that's kind of how this erosion took place.

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Speaker 1: Right the model cracked with Hayward saying I'd rather be

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Speaker 1: a cub and then and I'm not saying that like

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Speaker 1: that was like the like the thing that that wasn't

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Speaker 1: the like final piece or the first piece of the

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Speaker 1: Janngle tower that tatpuled, but at least it's least symbolic

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Speaker 1: of it, and then of what they were chasing ever since.

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Speaker 1: You know, along the way, they had managerial fires, they

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Speaker 1: had they had a reduction in staff that they never

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Speaker 1: went back from. They had a pandemic, and they they

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Speaker 1: had a farm system that did not produce the pitching

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Speaker 1: when it was most needed.

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Speaker 2: Derek, I find so much of this fascinating, and I

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Speaker 2: want to get to the player development stuff in a moment,

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Speaker 2: but I'm curious about how much I believe it was

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty two, when they were struggling mightily and then

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Speaker 2: went on just a ridiculous run and ended up making

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Speaker 2: the playoffs. Was that kind of an inflection point too,

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Speaker 2: where maybe changes, more drastic changes would have come had

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Speaker 2: they had they not made that run winning streak. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: they made that run and they made the playoffs. It

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Speaker 2: seemed like, I mean, we'd be looking at three straight

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Speaker 2: playoff list seasons or maybe longer I can't keep track

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Speaker 2: of it, but an extended playoff list run for Saint Louis,

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Speaker 2: which just doesn't happen, not this century, at least, it

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Speaker 2: doesn't seem like that's a thing that happens for the Cardinals.

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Speaker 2: So I'm curious, like how much would would think would

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Speaker 2: we be would we been talking about this a year

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Speaker 2: or two ago had that run not happen. Did that

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Speaker 2: kind of give Mo and this group a little bit

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Speaker 2: more of a runway to uh kind of you know,

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Speaker 2: ease the exit. So it wasn't kind of like this

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Speaker 2: were they on the hot seat at that point? I

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Speaker 2: guess I don't think.

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Speaker 1: So'll no, because you know, they had they had a

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Speaker 1: quality team, They had a manager that they were about

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Speaker 1: to extend. They did have some you know, some members

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Speaker 1: of the staff that were canaries in the coal mine

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Speaker 1: shouting out problems in the farm system, but they still

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Speaker 1: had the license to improve it. Uh, you had Paul

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Speaker 1: Goldschmith with multiple years left. You had Nolan Ronatto with

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Speaker 1: multiple years left. You were not yet at a point

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Speaker 1: where you thought you'd run out of pitching prospects or

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Speaker 1: pitching potential. I mean, you had Alex Reyes as an

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Speaker 1: All Star closer at that point time. You know, he

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Speaker 1: he obviously delivered the pitch that bounced them from the

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Speaker 1: playoffs that year, you know, I think, or well against

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Speaker 1: the Dodgers in that one game wild card playoff. You know,

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Speaker 1: but but he was, you know, he was part of

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Speaker 1: a youth group still. It seems like he was a

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Speaker 1: prospect forever, but he was still part of a group

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Speaker 1: of I mean, you think back, you got d cooda

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Speaker 1: Hudson who had not yet struggled yet. So you had

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Speaker 1: a lot of things going on. Plus you had like

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Speaker 1: just maybe and maybe to your point, like you had

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Speaker 1: the adrenaline rush of because of that winning streak. It

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Speaker 1: was like, Okay, this is finally the team that they

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Speaker 1: thought they'd be. You know, you had Nolan ran out

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Speaker 1: a winning a division for the first time, and he's like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is why I came here, and you know, he

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Speaker 1: had all that stuff, and then Ryan Helsey was the

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Speaker 1: you know, Ryan Helsey was a part of that group.

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Speaker 1: He was a young player with you know, coming up,

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Speaker 1: so then you see what he's become now. So I

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Speaker 1: think they had the ingredients there as I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: think back on that roster, uh, regardless of whether they

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Speaker 1: had that winning streak or not. The winning streak was

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Speaker 1: just kind of proof of concept, if you will. But

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Speaker 1: they felt they had the good roster there not to

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Speaker 1: pivot away from it so quickly. They I don't think

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Speaker 1: I don't think they were like, oh, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't like it wasn't like a six right, Like

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Speaker 1: six that team wins eighty three games, gets healthy, then

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Speaker 1: just blitzes the postseason, wins a World Series, right and

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Speaker 1: then in the six o seven offseason, it's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: well let's bring that team back. It's like, no, those

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Speaker 1: are the fumes that got to the World Series. That

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Speaker 1: team was on fumes. And then they brought the team back,

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Speaker 1: and then they had a losing season and seven and

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Speaker 1: that led to a lot of significant changes. It was

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Speaker 1: not like that where it was like, oh, Okay, this

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Speaker 1: is the this is the peak, and this is the

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Speaker 1: these are the fumes of this roster. No, this it

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Speaker 1: was like this is this is this is the roster

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Speaker 1: at full strength and is gonna win eighteen consecutive games

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Speaker 1: all the time. No, that's not going to happen. But

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Speaker 1: can it play like that then absolutely? And can it

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Speaker 1: be outfitted with young talent that was on its way,

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Speaker 1: especially a couple of those pictures, then yes, so don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that that would have led them to

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Speaker 1: pivot to younger. If anything, that would have emboldened them

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Speaker 1: to stick with what they had, in part because you know,

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Speaker 1: they're nucleus. That gold Schmidt Arnatto tandem was still in

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Speaker 1: the midst of their contracts.

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Speaker 4: Eric, could you reintroduce John Mozilac to us and our audience,

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Speaker 4: because I think it's interesting, Like bit what he's like,

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Speaker 4: a state school guy, non Ivy league guy, Like he

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Speaker 4: came up on the scouting side from like the very

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Speaker 4: lowest rungs of baseball operations, and then you kind of

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Speaker 4: see him with his like bowtie and like tailored sport

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Speaker 4: coats and see where kind of the cardinals have gone

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Speaker 4: and you know, very model heavy and things like that.

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Speaker 4: He also may have been on like a Hall of

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Speaker 4: Fame trajectory when you look at his career and judging

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Speaker 4: by some of the coverage and reactions on social media,

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Speaker 4: it seems like Cardinals fans you know, are ready for

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Speaker 4: a big change in the front office, Like how how

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Speaker 4: does this transition to your work? Where does he go

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Speaker 4: from here? And what is his kind of like I

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Speaker 4: don't know.

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Speaker 1: How far and how far? How far back do you

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Speaker 1: want me to go? I mean to his boyhood in Boulder, Colorado.

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Speaker 3: No, go way back.

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Speaker 4: It's more more just uh, you know these front offices,

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Speaker 4: the figureheads, you know, kind.

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Speaker 1: Of towere times when we were a Boulder reservoir, probably

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Speaker 1: at the same time. Both you know, he's a teenager,

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Speaker 1: I was a kid. No. Uh, well, so I mean

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Speaker 1: when you say you started the lowest wrong, I mean

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Speaker 1: he quite honestly started as a left handed BP pitcher

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Speaker 1: for the Colorado Rockies and watching him paying attention and

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Speaker 1: picking up mentors there, don Zimmer, you know, and then

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Speaker 1: of course front office guys there, Bob geb Hart being

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Speaker 1: foremost and probably most most well known among them, and

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Speaker 1: then from there from working his way up from BP

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Speaker 1: pitcher left handed BP pitcher, which they needed right and

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Speaker 1: he had a friend of a friend of a friend,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, hey, I know a guy who

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Speaker 1: throws left handed. I know a guy who can throw strikes.

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Speaker 1: Let's bring him on over. He goes into uh oh,

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Speaker 1: yeah and yeah, and he went to see you right,

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Speaker 1: started off Arizona, but went but finished at see You

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Speaker 1: there and Boulder, and you know, he uh works his

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Speaker 1: way up and then gets the offer to come to

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Speaker 1: the Cardinals. When walk Walt Jockety takes over with new

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Speaker 1: ownership here in Saint Louis. You know, the brewery had

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Speaker 1: owned the team, sold the team. The group that was

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Speaker 1: not known as the duet group at the time. Really

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Speaker 1: there were other leader leading members of that ownership group.

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Speaker 1: It is still the same ownership group and do it

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Speaker 1: as the chairman, but there through the purchasing process there

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Speaker 1: were many other names. Many of them went to school

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Speaker 1: here in Saint Louis at a rather renowned high school

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Speaker 1: here and they knew each other from there, but they

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Speaker 1: all had roots in Saint Louis. But as that group,

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Speaker 1: as that ownership group, took over, and while Jockety came

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Speaker 1: in and brought Tony L. Russ in, among the people

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Speaker 1: he brought in was John Ozelak. So you're looking at

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Speaker 1: three decades with the Cardinals, and you know, it's obviously

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Speaker 1: well known that the Cardinals drafted Albert Pools in the

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Speaker 1: later rounds right thirteenth round. It's well known that the

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Speaker 1: Cardinals drafted YadA Air Molina. Less well known is the

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Speaker 1: fact that Mozelak was heavily involved in that, Like for

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Speaker 1: some odd reason, that's less well known that and it's

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Speaker 1: not for lack of coverage. It's just for lack of

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Speaker 1: I don't know. The things that catch a hook and

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Speaker 1: stay forever are really interesting and I'm not quite sure why,

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Speaker 1: but he was involved in that, you know, whether cross

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Speaker 1: checking or running the draft. He was also overseeing things

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Speaker 1: when they had what was called the lost draft, just

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Speaker 1: a draft that they did not invest in that they

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Speaker 1: did not feel like they had a lot of a

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Speaker 1: lot of knowledge for purposefully as they made the shift

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Speaker 1: to analytics, right, and they were pretty early on in

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Speaker 1: the Moneyball run. That of course was related to ownership

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Speaker 1: hiring Luno, and then Mozaillac, who was assistant general manager

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Speaker 1: by this point in time, became very involved in trying

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Speaker 1: to unite those you know, they were kind of by

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Speaker 1: a camera, right, like, you know, they had the pro

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Speaker 1: or the scouting side and the stats side, and if

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Speaker 1: there was a person who went in between it was

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Speaker 1: Mozaillak who was trying to unite them for the common goal.

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Speaker 1: He was heavily involved in. Jockety will tell you he

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Speaker 1: was heavily involved in doing some of the contracts identifying

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Speaker 1: some guys. You know, Mark Ridzelanik stands out. You know,

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Speaker 1: as the Cardinals went through this second base churn, one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons why they did that is because they

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Speaker 1: thought that, you know, second base was probably the biggest

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Speaker 1: pool of play you could choose from each year. You know,

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Speaker 1: you could have shortstops on the downside of their careers,

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Speaker 1: their based went on the downside of their careers, second

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Speaker 1: basement young second basemen who had had an injury or

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Speaker 1: struggle and needed to bounce back. They just felt it

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Speaker 1: was the different, the biggest pool, and that you could

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Speaker 1: get a lot of bang for your buck by by

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Speaker 1: churning through that position for a while. And it worked

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Speaker 1: out for them. I mean, you know, Tony Womack on

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Speaker 1: a championship team. Mark Gridzelanik was remarkable here and was

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Speaker 1: really essential to a team that then won one hundred games.

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Speaker 1: David Eckstein at shortstop. You think about that team. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: so you see how most fingerprints and influence are all

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Speaker 1: part of that. And then when there was significant fractures

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Speaker 1: in the in the front office and ownership, Bil DeWitt

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Speaker 1: Junior decided that the change had to take place. After

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Speaker 1: that losing season in two thousand and seven, Mosaic was

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Speaker 1: the interim for about thirty days and then on Halloween

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Speaker 1: of that year he was named the general manager. And

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Speaker 1: a lot of that reason was because he had been

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Speaker 1: able to mend defenses and create get people to work together,

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Speaker 1: and that he saw the DeWitt's vision of you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: making profit and being more nimble and being more aggressive

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Speaker 1: with analytics and continuing to find a model that had

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Speaker 1: both a strong farm system but also a payroll that

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Speaker 1: punched above the size of its market. And this was

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Speaker 1: the model, right, you know, get people in, win them

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Speaker 1: over with the culture, with the winding habits, spend above

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Speaker 1: the market because of the support of the fans and

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Speaker 1: ty payroll to three point two million, three point four

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Speaker 1: million whatever they had coming in, and then have a

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Speaker 1: farm system to make it all work and make it

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Speaker 1: all possible, and not drain that farm system with trades

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Speaker 1: with you later and in twenty eleven, the Cardinals won

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Speaker 1: the World Series and had the number one farm system

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Speaker 1: and they're very proud of that, like that daily double, right,

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Speaker 1: like do you have the championship at the major league

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Speaker 1: level and you have the industry saying you also have

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Speaker 1: the best farm system. And then a few years later,

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Speaker 1: mozay Loac, I don't know how much in the weeds

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Speaker 1: you want me to get here, but he gets promoted

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Speaker 1: to president of Baseball Operations. He says at the time

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Speaker 1: that one of the reasons for the promotion was it

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Speaker 1: would free him up because he felt the Cardinals were

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Speaker 1: losing some of their edge and he wanted to regain

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Speaker 1: that and that that was going to be a priority

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Speaker 1: for him. Was looking at areas where they could regain

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Speaker 1: some of their competitive advantage and yes, some of their

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Speaker 1: business advantage. And it does not it bores people, I'm sure,

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Speaker 1: but part of that was, you know, the Memphis Redbirds,

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Speaker 1: their Triple or their Triple A affiliate was run as

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Speaker 1: a not for profit and that's how it was established,

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Speaker 1: and that was causing it was a good thing, and

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Speaker 1: they they've maintained some of that charitable edge, but it

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Speaker 1: was causing issues with improvements and continued relationships and the

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00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,720
Speaker 1: Cardinals just wanted that to be there forever affiliate, and

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Speaker 1: their idea was to buy it, and Mozilla kind of

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00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:22,919
Speaker 1: led that, how do you move it out of this

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Speaker 1: not for profit and move all those implications out? What

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Speaker 1: does that mean for a ballpark and the city, right,

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00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 1: because these are separate things, the team and the ballpark.

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00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 1: And so he spent a lot of time traveling down

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Speaker 1: there for city board meetings, lobbying all that stuff, and

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00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: so this was part of like his like, well, this

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00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:43,199
Speaker 1: is what we're gonna do. He wanted to build a

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00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 1: pitching lab. He wanted to radically modernize and enhance the

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00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: team's spring training facility for about a decade now they've

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00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: known that it's a decade behind, so that puts it

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00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 1: even another decade behind. But they were, you know, all

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00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,439
Speaker 1: these things just have not they haven't gone at the

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00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: speed that he wanted, the Cardinals wanted. But specifically let

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00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 1: me underscore that he wanted and that he specifically talked

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00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: about doing when he was President Baseball Operations. You know,

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00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 1: pulls off the trade for Paul Goldschmid. Some fast forwarding

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Speaker 1: a few more years, they get back into the playoffs.

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Speaker 1: This obviously is just after the era of the Cubs

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Speaker 1: winning their first World Series, which came a year after

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00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 1: they bounced the Cardinals a pretty good Cardinals team from

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Speaker 1: October and continued the descent that we talked about. So

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Speaker 1: now the Cardinals are back in the playoffs. Things are

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00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 1: going well. They like the team they have, They're building

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00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 1: it around Paul Goldsmith. They feel like the farm system

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00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 1: is better. Not to glance over the hacking scandal that

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Speaker 1: took place that then wiped out a first round for

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00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,399
Speaker 1: them and also put a dent in their reputation. That

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00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 1: also happened in all this time just before the promotion

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Speaker 1: to President Baseball Operations. So you have all this going on, right,

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Speaker 1: but now they have a footing. They feel like they're

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Speaker 1: going in a direction. Mo talks about having a succession plan.

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Speaker 1: He starts putting that in place. You start hearing from

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Speaker 1: more of his lieutenants. There's a few promotions. I'm not

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00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:14,640
Speaker 1: sure the timing of it, but there are a few

432
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 1: promotions where now they have multiple assistant general managers instead

433
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 1: of just one. You see, and this is on purpose.

434
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:26,760
Speaker 1: They show you the flow chart of decisions and how

435
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 1: voices are growing, and it's not just Mozaillic leading it,

436
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 1: and then a pandemic happens, and then the Cardinals have

437
00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 1: an outbreak that puts them nineteen days out. And ever

438
00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 1: since then, Mozaellic has been back. In the days leading

439
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: up to the shutdown and that spring training leading up,

440
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: there was more from other members of the front office.

441
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 1: General manager Michael Gersh was more prominent, he was doing

442
00:24:55,200 --> 00:25:00,280
Speaker 1: some of the public media things. But in the that

443
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: followed the pandemic and then the years that have followed since,

444
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:07,159
Speaker 1: it's been Mozailla back very clearly as the face of

445
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 1: the front office and very much doing a lot of

446
00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,639
Speaker 1: the day to day that we used to associate with

447
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: the general manager and now we associate with the president

448
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: Baseball operations. But not seeking out, but in addition to that,

449
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 1: also trying to find these edges that just kept coming,

450
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 1: you know, just being out of reach for them. Whether

451
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:29,639
Speaker 1: I mean, look, they were supposed to break ground a

452
00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: year plus ago on their new facility in Jupiter, got

453
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: all the construction, got it already and everything like that,

454
00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 1: and then a third party, I guess it would be

455
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 1: a fourth party, because the Marlins are the third party,

456
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: I guess, But a fourth party did not have the

457
00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 1: right permits, so delayed it twelve months. I mean, this

458
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,200
Speaker 1: is what they've run into, and you go, well, why

459
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 1: wasn't that taken care of? Well, I mean, to be honest,

460
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 1: they hire people to do that, and it's hard to

461
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,479
Speaker 1: go like, well, the Cardinals make a bad choice, then

462
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: Marlins make a bad choice on that. No, they just

463
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,040
Speaker 1: the person they hired or the entity that they wasn't

464
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 1: one person. The entity that they hired just didn't navigate bureaucracy, right,

465
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: I think we can all empathize with not being able

466
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: to navigate bureaucracy, But but it doesn't cost us.

467
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 2: A year of that sounds like yeah, right, that's not no.

468
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 1: So that so that's a long winded answer of how

469
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: they got here along the way. One other thing, like,

470
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: you know, there's just this urban legend of Jeff Luna,

471
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: who was a huge part of what the Cardinals did

472
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,119
Speaker 1: and how they modernize. But like lost from that the

473
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: big glowing neon Marquee lights and how prominent Jeff Luna

474
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: was and how much he talked about all the things

475
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: he was doing. Was the rule mosaic played in that,

476
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, like there are there are a

477
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: lot of examples of the late round picks that the

478
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: Cardinals took that they had great success in and a

479
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 1: lot of a lot, a lot of credit has not

480
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: gone to signte All for that for some of the

481
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: stuff that he did that helped them find small college

482
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,439
Speaker 1: guys like Matt Adams stands out a couple of the

483
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 1: pictures that contributed not many stars, but also Trevor Rosenthal

484
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: was really good, right, Trevor Rosenthal was a great closer

485
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: for the Cardinals, and he was drafted with one of

486
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: these like gut sticker kind of things right that they

487
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 1: put like a like this guy's gonna work out. But

488
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: he also was drafted like under the schematic that Mozelak said,

489
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 1: look when in doubt picked the athlete, like he was like,

490
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: I want to find athletic pictures. And they talked about

491
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: this and Mozillic, this brings it all the way back, right,

492
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: you're talking about the scouting aspect, Yeah, brought to it.

493
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: That is where that came in. So he had all

494
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: these analytics, they had really beefed up. They were doing great,

495
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: and then you know Mozaillaic adds that little nudge at

496
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 1: the end, like when in doubt take the athlete, and

497
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 1: so they took Trevor Rosenthal, who was a strong arm shortstop,

498
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: and they're like, this guy can be a pitcher for us.

499
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of examples of that. Carlos

500
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: Martinez is an example of that. He signed as a

501
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 1: shortstop with the Red Sox, but the Cardinals worked to

502
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 1: sign him as a pitcher. And so you look at

503
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: some of the some of the strong pitching development that

504
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: they had there, of which brett Strom also deserves a

505
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:24,959
Speaker 1: lot of credit for. And Mozilla's influence on that is

506
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 1: is is there even if it didn't get trumpeted when

507
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: when the other folks did. When they move elsewhere, that

508
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,560
Speaker 1: that tends to be the case, right like when somebody

509
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 1: else moves elsewhere, all the things that they succeeded where

510
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: they were get celebrated. So I guess maybe that's something

511
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: that Mozilla didn't have, right, Like, he didn't go elsewhere,

512
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: so you know, to beat writers like me didn't really

513
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: didn't really write a whole lot about what he was doing,

514
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: or it didn't get as much attention nationally because he

515
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 1: didn't move. Yeah, you know, he had his chances to move,

516
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: but he didn't.

517
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 2: Derek I talked about the player development. Obviously, it sounds

518
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 2: like time Bloom was brought in, uh partly for that originally.

519
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: And and now he's obviously going like part of the

520
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 2: succession plan and will be in charge.

521
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: And I guess is a succession plan.

522
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: Yes he is.

523
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: He is a part of it. He is.

524
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 2: And my like, just you know, looking at it from afar,

525
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 2: I it feels like to me, he got a raw

526
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 2: deal in Boston, Like he didn't really get a chance

527
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 2: to see out a plan that he had in place

528
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 2: that seems decently thought out, you know, when you're forced

529
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 2: to trade a superstar like Mookie Betts. It wasn't like

530
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 2: he was like, this is the best idea in the

531
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 2: world to trade this guy. Uh. And looking at their system,

532
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 2: it clearly he had some sort of positive impact in Boston.

533
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 4: Uh.

534
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 2: I'm curious how much of that from what I know,

535
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 2: which is not nearly as much as you They amateur

536
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 2: scouting is solid there. They do a good job of drafting,

537
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 2: identifying talent. Player development is behind, and this is an

538
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 2: area where Patrick started with the Cubs were behind five

539
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 2: years ago. They I think it was THEO that made

540
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 2: the comment the Winner's curse that they got hit by

541
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: the winner's curse and they were winning, so they thought

542
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 2: everything was good, so why make these changes? And they

543
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: were against the direction player development was headed in this business.

544
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 2: And the reality is player development is so much more

545
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 2: important than we thought, you know, ten, fifteen, whatever, twenty

546
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 2: years ago, and there's a much bigger impact that can

547
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:35,480
Speaker 2: be made. How hesitant has Saint Louis been to making

548
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 2: those changes or is it just part of you know,

549
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 2: what happened there? And is that the area that you'd

550
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 2: point to as well, like this is this has to

551
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 2: be addressed and this is this is where him can help.

552
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, since I started on this beat

553
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: and had a chance to kind of talk with you know,

554
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: one of the benefits when I started on the beat

555
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,160
Speaker 1: was just like the people I got to work with with,

556
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: you know where you know, the late Joe Strauss and

557
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: the late Ric Kummel, and how much knowledge they brought

558
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: to baseball, but also how much they covered like just

559
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: the the just they they were the you know, they

560
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 1: were the ocean, right, and that left the little continents

561
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: for me to cover and and and one of the

562
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 1: continents was player development. And so you know, I remember

563
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: pretty early on getting a lot of chance to talk

564
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: with even George Kissel obviously, who's a legend here in

565
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: Saint Louis, but also you know Bruce Manna, who was

566
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,840
Speaker 1: was heavily involved in farm director here and uh, you

567
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: know just a lot about that. And and I bring

568
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 1: that up just because it became the way I kind

569
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 1: of looked at it, and having maybe having grown up

570
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: around Triple A baseball and sort of the minor league

571
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: notion and reading Baseball America so much, I always thought like,

572
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: it's very interesting how much we celebrate where a guy

573
00:31:55,320 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: is drafted and when a player debuts, and like then

574
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: there's like the the b locked box between the two,

575
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: like where all the good stuff happens, right, And I

576
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: often thought about that, like why why do we like

577
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: just like redact this area of the player's career. And

578
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: so when I set set out, I was like, all right,

579
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: this is what I'm gonna do. I want to try

580
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: to always think of players through this prism draft development debut.

581
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: And even when like I was doing the player the

582
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 1: prospect rankings for Baseball America, I would think about that.

583
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 1: I would think about, like, okay, you know, yes, fine

584
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: ranked them high because of where they were drafted, but

585
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,080
Speaker 1: do not rank them high solely on where they were drafted.

586
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: Also consider the prominence of their position shortstop for example,

587
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: high demand, catcher, high demand, but also proximity to the

588
00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: majors and what development did for them. Who is this

589
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: player now, not who were they when they were coming

590
00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: out of high school right, not who they wor coming

591
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: out of college. And so we've had a real chance here,

592
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: you know, and the Cardinals have had farm directors Gary

593
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,160
Speaker 1: Lorock most recently, who's retiring, who were eager to kind

594
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,200
Speaker 1: of talk about the development thing and which just sagged

595
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: behind because of infrastructure. And it has been a real

596
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: focal point for us in covering for a long time

597
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,880
Speaker 1: because you know, going back, you could go back ten

598
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: years and we write about how they were expediting arrivals, right,

599
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: and they were they were getting them to the majors younger,

600
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: in part because they were like, look, star players are

601
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: there in their mid twenties and there's not this quota

602
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: of at bats and quota of innings that they need

603
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: to check mark in the minors. Let them go. You know.

604
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: I remember writing about like the different stages that the

605
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: Cardinals had set up as far as what they wanted

606
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,560
Speaker 1: to see from pitchers, command of fastball, command of two pitches,

607
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 1: commit you know, this kind of thing at each level,

608
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,719
Speaker 1: and once you did that, you moved up. And then

609
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 1: also how they viewed double A as on the brink

610
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: of triple A, like they would promote from double A

611
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,640
Speaker 1: to the majors. They saw that gap and they weren't

612
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 1: alone in this, but they saw that gap as not

613
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 1: a significant between double A and triple A as it

614
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: was between those two levels and the majors. So I

615
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: like talking about player development. And then over the last

616
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 1: few years, this again goes back to the pandemic. Really,

617
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: they just have had this erosion of infrastructure. They haven't

618
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: been able to have the investment. They did make an

619
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,439
Speaker 1: investment in tech, and then in some cases the tech

620
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: just sat there, not used because this staff didn't either

621
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: know or didn't feel it was valuable, or some thought

622
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 1: it was alchemy, statistical alchemy and not actual different, you know,

623
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: not something that would actually make a difference. They outfitted

624
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 1: every player with blast devices, got really good responses for hitting,

625
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: They built a hitting barn, they made advances. Mason Win

626
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: is definitely a product of all the investment and Alec

627
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 1: Burroson is two in the development of hitters. You know,

628
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 1: they got that and Jeff Albert was a big part

629
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: of that, and they they just didn't get that same

630
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 1: thing on the pitching side. They didn't get the investment,

631
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,279
Speaker 1: they didn't get the pitching lab up and running, and

632
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: then when they had reductions of staff, they didn't fill

633
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: it out. They they haven't had a field coordinator for

634
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 1: a while. They had one after Mark Dejon, but they

635
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: but he left and they didn't refill that. They didn't

636
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:32,960
Speaker 1: they had a catching coordinator briefly several years ago. They don't.

637
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: They haven't had the roaming instructors that they once did

638
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 1: at their peak. They just haven't filled jobs. Their minor

639
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 1: league staffs are far smaller than their rivals. You know,

640
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: they might have one or two kind of level of

641
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: coaches that most teams have for pitchers at every level,

642
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: one or two at every level of Cardinals might have

643
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,720
Speaker 1: one or two total for their minor league system, depending

644
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 1: on what the what the depending on how you look

645
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 1: at those responsibilities, their titles. They just have had this

646
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: over time. And then add in the fact that and

647
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: they'll they'll they'll acknowledge this. They came out of the

648
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: lost year of twenty twenty for minor leagues and they're like, well,

649
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: let's treat it as if that happened, and they pushed

650
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: everybody up a level and we're very aggressive with that,

651
00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 1: and the result was the worst system, one of the

652
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 1: worst system winning percentage since the sixties, not for the Cardinals,

653
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,920
Speaker 1: but in all a minor league basement. Wow. So I

654
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 1: like the bottom five winning and the big root cause

655
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: of that was poor pitching. Just they they had, you know,

656
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,320
Speaker 1: I mean you just look at the TV eras or

657
00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:50,120
Speaker 1: whatever you want to look at there, how many runs

658
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:54,440
Speaker 1: they gave up total, and it just was like astonished.

659
00:36:54,520 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: It was galactically problematic. And they had to kind of

660
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: reposition after that. And you know, it wasn't that they

661
00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: didn't have talent in the system, it's just how it

662
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: was then being used, what level it was at. And

663
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: then the complete lack of a modern structure around it

664
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 1: was catching up with them. Well no, actually, let me

665
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 1: rephrase that. The lack of a modern structure, the pushing

666
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 1: them ahead, all of that did catch up with them.

667
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,400
Speaker 1: It wasn't catching up with them. And then we had

668
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: the added point that they didn't have a first round

669
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: pick in twenty seventeen, which is this is about the

670
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: time that they would really get some impact from twenty

671
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: seventeen and that didn't happen.

672
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 4: Looking forward, Derek like, what is your gut feel on

673
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 4: kind of what the Bloom era may look like, how

674
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 4: it may impact the Cups Cardinals' rivalry, because I feel like,

675
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 4: you know, when THEO and then Madden came to.

676
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,960
Speaker 3: Chicago, that was certainly a shift.

677
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,320
Speaker 4: And Andrew Friedman went to the Dodgers people like like, wow,

678
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 4: this could be Oh yeah. Even David Stearns has made

679
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 4: an impact in New York from afar, like sid have said,

680
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 4: I get what they're doing.

681
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 3: I think it could work.

682
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 4: I think bloom still has a lot to show the

683
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 4: wait at that level. What's been kind of the local

684
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 4: reaction in your read on where this is this is heading?

685
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's it's tough in two senses. One,

686
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: you know, you don't want to say that social media

687
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: is reflective of the whole fan base, right Like, it's

688
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: just it's a lot. It's the loudest called to sack,

689
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: but maybe it's the loudest neighborhood now but uh, I

690
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: think I think there's just there's fatigue and time is

691
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: somebody new, so that that's helpful. I mean, we we

692
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: spent some time here kind of cataloging the length of

693
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 1: time that this front office group, particularly most has been here.

694
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: That's just that's a long time, you know that. I mean,

695
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 1: it is and he recognizes that. The Cardinals recognize that

696
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,760
Speaker 1: they've put such an emphasis on continuity. And I remember

697
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 1: back in like twenty nineteen, twenty eighteen, when we had

698
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:17,839
Speaker 1: one of these press conferences with ownership and I asked

699
00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: them if continuity, if they ever worry that continuity becomes

700
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 1: a euphemism for accepting a team that's become stale, like

701
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: are they stale or siloed off? And I got heavy

702
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: pushback on that question. But a few years later I'm like, well,

703
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: I kind of maybe had a point, right, So time

704
00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: is new and fresh, and so that's being well received.

705
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:43,800
Speaker 1: I don't you know, I don't think people buy tickets

706
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 1: or don't buy tickets based on the front office. There

707
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: are definitely some people in Saint Louis who are out

708
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:52,279
Speaker 1: to prove me wrong on that, which is fine, But

709
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:53,880
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if they'll buy tickets to

710
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,319
Speaker 1: come see I'm bloom. But I think one thing that

711
00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:00,680
Speaker 1: the Cardinals have in mind is, all right, what has

712
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: Tampa Bay done really well? And what have the Dodgers

713
00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 1: benefited from because of what Tampa Bay does really well?

714
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 3: All Right?

715
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: What did him learn from being with the Red Sox

716
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 1: as far as baseball royalty, baseball legacy, baseball pressure and

717
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:21,760
Speaker 1: championship expectations. Now, if you give him a chance, which

718
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 1: to Sahata's point, maybe he didn't get in Boston, if

719
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,479
Speaker 1: you give him a chance to do the Tampa Bay

720
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 1: thing with a historic team and a bigger payroll. Ultimately,

721
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:38,439
Speaker 1: I mean, he's got a five year deal, which means

722
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: he'll be here six more years. His five year deal

723
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,719
Speaker 1: doesn't start until he takes over, So this is not

724
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: a small commitment on either side. And I know that

725
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 1: contracts guaranteed dollars, not years, But there is a definite

726
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 1: implication here that he is going to get a long

727
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 1: runway to lead them into what they want to be

728
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: part of. That is because of the TV situation, the

729
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: ticket sales and everything like that, he's not going to

730
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: have the full wallet from which to to you know,

731
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,239
Speaker 1: to see if he can swing and and you know,

732
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: do some damage in the division with bigger spending until

733
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: later you know they're they're gonna trim costs.

734
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 3: You know.

735
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: The way that Mosalla put it, I thought was really

736
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: interesting was like they're gonna reduce cast he said it.

737
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: They're gonna reduce payroll, and they want to get into

738
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 1: a spot where all the things that they are going

739
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: to try to accomplish this year. When that is ready

740
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 1: to contend, they spend. And it sure seems like okay,

741
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: that that model makes sense, that that actually if they

742
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: do it that way is kind of the argument that

743
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 1: has been going on here for several years is why

744
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 1: stop just shy of spending so much like you know,

745
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: we asked, like, okay, you traded for Paul Goldsmith, makes

746
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: a lot of sense. You're gonna get a really good place,

747
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: a really good value. That why then stop? Why not

748
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: then say all right, well, Bryce Harper, you want to

749
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: be a part of this, right because that was either

750
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 1: at the same time or you know why like you

751
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,760
Speaker 1: get I mean, Gibson Lynn and Sonny Gray are different examples,

752
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: but like the stopping short like of why not go

753
00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: after that top picture or even the third best picture

754
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 1: in the market and instead say, well, we're gonna throw

755
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 1: four home grown and one one year veteran on a

756
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 1: bounce back at that problem. So I'm eager to see

757
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: if if they are able to you know, air traffic

758
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,000
Speaker 1: control or triangular or whatever verb you want to use,

759
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 1: right or analogy you want to use, all these pieces

760
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: to come together at a time. When Heim then is

761
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 1: in charge, he has the farm system that he modernized

762
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:57,760
Speaker 1: and built in Essentially, they are handing him a classic

763
00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 1: car and saying, we need you to make this energy

764
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: efficient and then we need you to drive it, and

765
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: when you do that, then we will give you the

766
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,919
Speaker 1: custom paint job of your dreams. Like that's what they're doing.

767
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: And I'm eager to see how that works.

768
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I I am too. I I I think this

769
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 2: this question, I think is very relevant to the Cubs because,

770
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 2: in my opinion, if what you're saying works and works well,

771
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,360
Speaker 2: the Cardinals once again become that team that the Cubs

772
00:43:31,360 --> 00:43:34,239
Speaker 2: were talking about, you know, a decade plus ago of

773
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 2: like we have we're this is who we're chasing, right

774
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 2: this is who we want to be. This is and

775
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 2: right now, that's the Brewers. I think that's very interesting

776
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,080
Speaker 2: how that that narrative has shifted and the.

777
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: Brewers because you know what we're talking here October ninth

778
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 1: and there, and they're not They're not really impressive. I

779
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 1: give them a lot of credit. That was a really

780
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: impressive year. But I don't, I don't know. I go

781
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 1: ahead with your question, but no, no, I reserve the

782
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 1: right to ask a question of you guys that I

783
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:05,680
Speaker 1: would really like to ask.

784
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,960
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't disagree with the where I think

785
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 2: you're headed. I think my point is as far as

786
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,319
Speaker 2: the division goes, that's who these teams are chasing, right

787
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,879
Speaker 2: and and what the Brewers have done is impressive in

788
00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 2: that sense. But postseason is it seems to be a

789
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 2: different beast. But what I'm curious about is these how

790
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 2: how far down are we looking for the Cardinals as

791
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,880
Speaker 2: far as is this is this a rebuild? Like? How

792
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 2: how bad could this get for them? As far as

793
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 2: Major League product twenty six? Is this a point where

794
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 2: the Cubs don't have to worry about the Cardinals for

795
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 2: the next two years, which, if it's true in my

796
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 2: in my opinion, all the more reason why the Cubs

797
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 2: need to be aggressive right now.

798
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a great question. Uh, I still

799
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 1: reserve the right to ask my question. I don't I

800
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: want to see how they get through this winter, you know,

801
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: because like they're gonna go young, right, Well, does that

802
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: mean they're gonna trade Ryan Helsley? If they cherried Ryan Helsley,

803
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: that's a huge signal, right, I think I think they

804
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 1: have these signals along the way, right. Maybe first and

805
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:21,400
Speaker 1: foremost would be what they do with the option of

806
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 1: Kyle Gibson. If they're out to just cut costs, which

807
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: they are, then that's an easy twelve to drop, right,

808
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: even for a guy that you could really use, especially

809
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 1: if you want to bend young elsewhere in the rotation.

810
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: It'd be pretty good to have a veteran like that

811
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: who pitched like he did. Who you know, I'll add this,

812
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: who meant a lot to that clubhouse. He meant a

813
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 1: lot to that club He brought a lot. It was

814
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: there were times where it was like, you know, men

815
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:55,359
Speaker 1: like the the Cardinals clubhouse, right, you know, the guys

816
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 1: who've been club Cardinals forever, Adam Waynwright, you know, Chris

817
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: Carpon will come back around and everything like that. And

818
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 1: it was like Kyle Gibson's been here for five minutes

819
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 1: and it feels like he was here for fifty years.

820
00:46:04,640 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 1: I mean, he just was that guy and it was

821
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: very clear. So they make that call, then it's money.

822
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: I mean there's unless they like come out with like

823
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: a real explanation baseball wise, it's money. So I think

824
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 1: that's another one that that signals how competitive they're gonna

825
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: be this year. The big ones are conversations yet to

826
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 1: be had ongoing with Arnatto and Sonny Gray. Sonny Gray

827
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: specifically signed here to contend every year and also be

828
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:36,359
Speaker 1: close to home. If the Cardinals are not gonna do that,

829
00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: will he waive his no trade clause to go to

830
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: a team that he thinks has a better chance to win.

831
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: Arnatto orchestrated and was receptive to that trade and made

832
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 1: it possible by deferring a lot of money to win.

833
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: And if the Cardinals are gonna, you know, go, well,

834
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: you know we're gonna bend more towards the Rockies than

835
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,439
Speaker 1: we are the Dodgers. You know, that's really not why

836
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 1: he's here. And so I think those things along those lines.

837
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: I'll add this part though, like they say they're going young,

838
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,840
Speaker 1: but let's qualify that because like Large new Bar is

839
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: entering the middle part of his late twenties, Brendan Donovan

840
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: is entering the later part of his or his late twenties.

841
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: These are two guys who they want big things from

842
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 1: and while they their youth, they still have youth, right,

843
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: they still have pictures in players twenty five or under

844
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 1: Mason Wynn, Jordan Walker and Nolan Gorman, you know, Avan Herrera.

845
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: These guys are still talents that are younger than twenty five.

846
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:40,560
Speaker 1: There are parts of this team that, if you say

847
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,680
Speaker 1: go young, are still supposed to be in their peaks,

848
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 1: and if you're not getting peak production from them, they're

849
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: not going to be a part of the future. So

850
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 1: I think that's a real interesting part of this, like

851
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 1: are they going to try to walk the line again?

852
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:00,360
Speaker 1: Are they really? Are they gonna They not calling it

853
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,799
Speaker 1: a rebuild, they're calling it a reset. And for a

854
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: lot of this time they've kind of balanced on this

855
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,759
Speaker 1: fence of not going all in and not going all

856
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,759
Speaker 1: out And are there elements where they're still gonna do

857
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,560
Speaker 1: that same thing here? And I wonder if that means

858
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 1: that they're gonna kinda probably muddle around that five hundred again,

859
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,799
Speaker 1: But will they show signs that they're gonna zoom ten

860
00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 1: wins higher, eleven wins higher. So I'm really eager to

861
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 1: see just how far they go. Then that's bring us

862
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 1: back to the hellsy thing where if they trade him

863
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:36,439
Speaker 1: and try to just get the haul of prospects that

864
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,319
Speaker 1: he would bring in, then that's a sign that Okay,

865
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:43,200
Speaker 1: now we're really looking at this as like playing in

866
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. Who's gonna help in twenty twenty seven?

867
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 1: I then will watch for what does that mean for

868
00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 1: Lars newpar Where does that put Brendan Donovan. Brendan Donovan

869
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: who could be the leader of this team in a

870
00:48:55,200 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: lot of ways, in a real classic kind of cardinal player,

871
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:02,320
Speaker 1: where does he fit into that world as he nears

872
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:06,760
Speaker 1: and reaches arbitration and control for three more years while

873
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,440
Speaker 1: they are they going to contend in those three years?

874
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,239
Speaker 1: So I don't really have an answer for you because

875
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 1: it's October, but I think that that by Christmas is

876
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: going to be a really fascinating question. All right, So

877
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: now can I ask my question if you guys?

878
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll call it a reset.

879
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: We'll call it a Yeah. I just I was struck

880
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: by the fact that they just went so far out

881
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,200
Speaker 1: of the way not to call it a rebuild. I

882
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:35,520
Speaker 1: asked Bill DeWitt Junior. I said, I said, are you

883
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: is this a rebuild? And I said like, and He's like, no, well, no, no, no,

884
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: we we were using the word reset. And I was like, okay, well,

885
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 1: what does that mean. What's the message to the fans.

886
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:48,360
Speaker 1: Put it in their terms, not business terms like not like.

887
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 1: Put it in terms that the fans connect with, not

888
00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: the not the not the terms that like, you know,

889
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 1: the twelve, the twelve priorities of business understand, like that

890
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 1: the the boardroom understand. And he said, we're going young.

891
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 1: He said, we are going young. That's the message to fans.

892
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: We are going young. But that they never once said

893
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: that meant uncompetitive. It could mean that we're going young,

894
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: quote unquote, and if those young players perform and they'll compete.

895
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: So my question to you guys is, what the heck

896
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 1: is the deal with the National League Central saying we're

897
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: gonna you know, the Cubs you just mentioned it. The

898
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 1: Brewers certainly are built this way, win the division, win

899
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 1: the division, win the division. Anybody want to step out

900
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: of line of the National League Central and say we're

901
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: gonna win the National League Like, yeah, just so coastal.

902
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: Now that they're like, well, we got our little like

903
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: acreage of the continent. We're gonna try to win here, guys,

904
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:49,680
Speaker 1: and then see what it takes in October, because it

905
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: ain't working in October, not like it used to. So

906
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:58,880
Speaker 1: who's gonna step out and say, you know, hey, Midwest Pride,

907
00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:00,840
Speaker 1: We're gonna I mean, the ark in League Central is

908
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: doing all the heavy lifting. What's right that?

909
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 2: Like, I I don't disagree with you, Derek, And it's

910
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 2: something Patrick brings up a lot, and I think Patrick's right, Like,

911
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 2: what what is the message here? Is it? Why are

912
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 2: we talking about the division like this? There was a

913
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,080
Speaker 2: different message when THEO arrived and and when THEO was

914
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,400
Speaker 2: in charge in fifteen and sixteen and those years. The

915
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 2: message wasn't try to yeah, sure, get in the playoffs

916
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 2: year after year after year. That's that should be the goal. Absolutely,

917
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 2: But the where's the World Series talk? I feel like

918
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 2: Council kind of went there when he said, like we

919
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,560
Speaker 2: have to have higher aspirations and and and talked about,

920
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 2: you know, building a ninety win team. I think those are.

921
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:43,759
Speaker 2: That's a little bit more aggressive than than what we've

922
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 2: been hearing of late. But I think you're right. I

923
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 2: think you make a good point, like why why is

924
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 2: this talk about the division that? What is that? That's

925
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 2: you know, that's football talk. That's you know, the Bears

926
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:56,480
Speaker 2: saying we're gonna win the North and never or take

927
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 2: the North and never give it back. I appreciate that

928
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 2: when when you're facing the Green Bay Packers and all that,

929
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 2: but still like World Series should be the goal winning. Yeah,

930
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 2: taking out the Dodgers in Atlanta and those types of

931
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 2: teams and Phillies that I agree with you one hundred percent.

932
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know why the they're like it's

933
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 2: like verboating to talk about those Yeah, I don't.

934
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: I don't get it either. I mean, it just seems

935
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: like the Dodgers are such a financial and player development

936
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 1: beast that no team wants to be like, well, we're

937
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 1: going to take that on except for the Padres. But

938
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,359
Speaker 1: I have to, you know, I just if I find

939
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:35,320
Speaker 1: that fascinating, and it's something that I've asked the Cardinals

940
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,000
Speaker 1: about and they can push back because you know that

941
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 1: those top those top seats really haven't worked out, but

942
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: we'll see. But you know, the bye week hasn't exactly

943
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 1: been the the buffer that that you want to earn necessarily,

944
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: but the notion that, like you go win the division

945
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: and try to get in. Totally understand that. In fact,

946
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 1: THEO was one of the first guys to ever bring

947
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:57,160
Speaker 1: that up to me back in two thousand and four

948
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 1: in the World Series. I find it very fascinating. He

949
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: was the guy who first kind of talked about, like

950
00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 1: just the randomness of the postseason. So build a team

951
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: to get there and then see how hot you can

952
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 1: get while you're there. The four team being a great

953
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:12,799
Speaker 1: oh four Boston team being a great example as they

954
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:16,240
Speaker 1: took down one of the best Cardinal teams this city's

955
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: ever seen in four games. And you know, he brought

956
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 1: that up, and Cardinal fans get frush. They're just building

957
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: a team to eke into the playoffs and then get lucky.

958
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: It's like, well, that's every team, every team is that.

959
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: I mean, Jerry Depoto said it out loud and everybody,

960
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,080
Speaker 1: like everybody had a spit take. I was like, we've

961
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 1: been hearing this for years. You know, THEO brought up

962
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:38,399
Speaker 1: a four but the notion that like the National League

963
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 1: Central Is is sequestering itself into this little tournament to

964
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:46,479
Speaker 1: decide who loses in the first round. It's just a joke.

965
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 2: I agree.

966
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 3: I mean, you got the sound bite right there.

967
00:53:54,040 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not like they're the mid major. Go

968
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: be a big ten.

969
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:01,040
Speaker 4: I do think you it feels like you've been reading

970
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:03,080
Speaker 4: some of our slack messages and.

971
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 3: Like brainstorming sessions.

972
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 4: That's hot at I had had of like kind of

973
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 4: off season stories that we're working on, because yeah, I

974
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,560
Speaker 4: do think teams kind of take on certain elements of

975
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:20,799
Speaker 4: their leadership. And when you're talking about projections instead of parades,

976
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:23,160
Speaker 4: and when you.

977
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 3: Point to the Diamondbacks getting in last year as this

978
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:34,640
Speaker 3: like shining example of randomness as opposed to what the

979
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:35,240
Speaker 3: Cubs when.

980
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:37,680
Speaker 4: They were puffing their chests out not that long ago,

981
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,920
Speaker 4: was wanting to be like the New England Patriots, the

982
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:44,319
Speaker 4: Golden State Warriors. Obviously we're talking about you know, the

983
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,960
Speaker 4: Belichick Brady Patriots, not what's going on now, but like

984
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 4: they want to be like Manchester United, you know, like

985
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:54,359
Speaker 4: like global thing. And now it's like, you know, there's

986
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,759
Speaker 4: a daunting gap between them and the Brewers, Like, are

987
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 4: you kidding me?

988
00:54:58,040 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 3: Like that's like I get.

989
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 4: The whole point of you have to get him over

990
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 4: and over and over again. That's something you know that

991
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 4: is kind of I think everyone agrees upon now.

992
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,879
Speaker 3: But just the this lowering of sites.

993
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 4: And kind of softening of expectations is definitely. I'm sure

994
00:55:18,560 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 4: Scott Boris has some sort of Midwest analogy that he'll

995
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,640
Speaker 4: be uh prodding out this this offseason, but you're right

996
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 4: it is.

997
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, he'll come up with something. He'll call it the

998
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:32,440
Speaker 1: flyover country, like a trophy only flies over it.

999
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 4: You look at you look at the Yankees, both New

1000
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 4: York teams, You look at the Padres are a direct

1001
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:46,360
Speaker 4: reflection of their late owner and their Maverick GM.

1002
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:50,239
Speaker 3: Like, uh, and that's what I wonder.

1003
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 1: And they didn't run a debt like let's we should

1004
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,520
Speaker 1: call it. They did run a debt and need help,

1005
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 1: So there is something there there.

1006
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 3: But I think you're absolutely right of.

1007
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 4: Just teams, you know, the mid Major Division is sadly accurate.

1008
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where we're at. I mean, it's just it's

1009
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 1: I find it fascinating because like, like Houston can do

1010
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:21,000
Speaker 1: what Houston did right and However, many ALCS is a

1011
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:23,840
Speaker 1: seven I think right, seven in a row and constantly

1012
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 1: in the playoffs, and they can they they can play

1013
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:33,560
Speaker 1: to the randomness of the postseason and yet get there

1014
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 1: and turn it on its ear, and not just do

1015
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: it with the same manager. Though it should be noted

1016
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 1: that that manager is back in the postseason and sure

1017
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: seems to have an approach with a new team that

1018
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:51,920
Speaker 1: is I don't know if it'll get to the ALCS,

1019
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:55,600
Speaker 1: but it it's working with a team that a lot

1020
00:56:55,680 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 1: of people did not think would emerge from five hundred,

1021
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:04,439
Speaker 1: let alone play past the NL Central, the entire NL

1022
00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:09,399
Speaker 1: Central in the postseason. So there's there is something there.

1023
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 1: There's definitely something to the randomness of the postseason. Get in,

1024
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 1: get hot, get going. The Dodgers are on the brink.

1025
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:21,720
Speaker 1: Part of why they're on the brink is because they

1026
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 1: don't have the pitching. Part of it is they're also

1027
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:29,280
Speaker 1: facing a blowtorch designed to beat them. Right, We'll see

1028
00:57:29,280 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: if that happens, but that team is out. The Padres

1029
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:35,640
Speaker 1: are out to beat them, and they have a manager

1030
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:40,400
Speaker 1: who is eager to do that. I speak from knowledge

1031
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 1: of this. The Yankees will see where the Yankees go,

1032
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,000
Speaker 1: they seem to be better positioned. And I find it

1033
00:57:49,040 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 1: fascinating the argument out of New York that that the

1034
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 1: Yankees have to beat the American League Central. I think

1035
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:57,280
Speaker 1: that's a really interesting positioning to the postseason because I mean,

1036
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: it's true, but they spend all year, are going up

1037
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 1: against one of the toughest divisions in baseball, you know,

1038
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:07,440
Speaker 1: that American League East, and now to get to the

1039
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 1: promised land of a Pennant in the World Series, they

1040
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 1: got to beat the American League Central if they falter, Like,

1041
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 1: what are the ingredients that Houston has had and what

1042
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:19,360
Speaker 1: are the ingredients that we see Aj Hinch rely on

1043
00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 1: in Detroit to tell us what October? How how you

1044
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: reduce the probably? How you reduce the randomness baseball all probability?

1045
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, yeah?

1046
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: How do you shrink the randomness? Because you're never gonna

1047
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 1: get away from it, because you're going to run into

1048
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 1: a Jeff Weaver who is pitching great, or a Madison

1049
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 1: Bumgardner who's pitching great, or a Nathany Valdi who's pitching great,

1050
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:51,760
Speaker 1: or a Arizona team that just plays a style that

1051
00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:55,919
Speaker 1: causes havoc right and has hot hitters at the right time,

1052
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: and also good pitching and bullpen that throws a lot

1053
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: of But so how do you reduce the randomness? And

1054
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 1: that seems to be a key point for the NL

1055
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 1: Central to get to where which of these teams is

1056
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:12,000
Speaker 1: going to be Houston? Which of these teams is going

1057
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 1: to be Houston and not say we're out to win

1058
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 1: the division because the American League West is pretty it

1059
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: is pretty vulnerable to a long term you know, division

1060
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:25,840
Speaker 1: leader or has been hard to say the NL Central

1061
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 1: isn't the same all right.

1062
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean the Cubs should be that. There's

1063
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 2: no reason why the Cubs shouldn't be that team right

1064
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 2: taking over this division. There's no other financial comparison in

1065
00:59:39,880 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 2: the division, and they should you know, I'm sure they

1066
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:47,120
Speaker 2: think it's true, but they should have the power in

1067
00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 2: the front office to be able to do this right.

1068
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:52,720
Speaker 2: It's the decision making and the people they certainly have,

1069
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 2: you know, Jed Hoyer has the background. Uh, we just

1070
00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:00,040
Speaker 2: haven't seen the results yet with this team. I I

1071
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 2: think it's a fascinating discussion, Derek and I think we

1072
01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 2: could we could probably talk to you for another hour here.

1073
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 2: Uh uh, it's.

1074
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 3: All save it for the GM meetings.

1075
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, right, right together then or winter meetings over

1076
01:00:14,280 --> 01:00:15,000
Speaker 1: the Yukon.

1077
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 2: Jack, Yes, exactly exactly.

1078
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: Which oh, I guess the Brewers. The Brewers get that.

1079
01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, uh barely. Thanks so much for joining us, Derek.

1080
01:00:26,760 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 2: We appreciate it. You have. I really appreciate your knowledge

1081
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 2: of this organization. Clearly a fascinating time right now with them.

1082
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:37,120
Speaker 2: And uh, I'm fascinated to see where it goes. I'm

1083
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,320
Speaker 2: curious to see how what direction it goes and and

1084
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:43,919
Speaker 2: how good, how much of an impact Bloom has over

1085
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 2: the the you know, however long it'll be uh, because

1086
01:00:47,440 --> 01:00:49,959
Speaker 2: I think it. I you know, I think it's going

1087
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 2: to be good. I just don't know when. Uh. And

1088
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,280
Speaker 2: I think that's fascinating to follow because with Saint Louis

1089
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 2: it was always like when. Now that's that's the answer,

1090
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 2: when it'll be good. And yeah, so it's a little

1091
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 2: it's a little different, but it also doesn't mean it's bad.

1092
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,439
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it. Well, we'll

1093
01:01:08,440 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 2: talk to you soon. We'll hit you up, I guess

1094
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:12,760
Speaker 2: a month from now in San Antonio.

1095
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 3: So good, Thank you, Derek.

1096
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:15,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you. Guys.

1097
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 3: Have a great day.

1098
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:17,760
Speaker 1: Thank you very much for the invitation.

1099
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:20,920
Speaker 2: Thanks so much to Derek Gould for joining us. Like

1100
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:24,360
Speaker 2: I said, he has a ton of info on the Cardinals.

1101
01:01:24,160 --> 01:01:28,520
Speaker 2: It's like reading a book on the Cardinals when listening

1102
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 2: to Derek talk. Just fascinating stuff, really interesting point where

1103
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:35,720
Speaker 2: the Cardinals are at. Thank you so much for listening

1104
01:01:35,720 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 2: to us. This is north Side Territory. Make sure to rate, review,

1105
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:43,840
Speaker 2: subscribe on all your different platforms, subscribe on YouTube. That

1106
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 2: helps us a ton, and of course subscribe to Patrick

1107
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 2: and my work at the Athletic. We will be on

1108
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 2: top of the Cubs all winter long. Obviously a big

1109
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 2: point for the Cubs as well, not just the Cardinals.

1110
01:01:57,000 --> 01:01:59,080
Speaker 2: The Cubs have a lot of work to do. We

1111
01:01:59,120 --> 01:02:01,360
Speaker 2: have a month of playoff and then the off season

1112
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 2: begins in earnest. We will see what direction the Cubs go,

1113
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 2: what they can do. We know what direction they're headed

1114
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 2: as far as what they need to do as far

1115
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 2: as winning and losing. But where do they go to

1116
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 2: get those wins is the question, and then we'll be

1117
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 2: looking to answer those for you in the coming weeks.

1118
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:20,919
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening everyone. Take care,