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Speaker 1: Also media. Hey everybody, Robert here, we had a little

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Speaker 1: mic error for the first couple of minutes of the episode.

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Speaker 1: My audio is going to sound a little shitty for

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Speaker 1: literally like three or four minutes, and then it'll be

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Speaker 1: back to normal. Apologies. Welcome back to Behind the Bastards

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Speaker 1: of podcasts, where I am eternally frustrating my business partner

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Speaker 1: and the only person who really cares about me, Sophie Lichtermann. Sophie,

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Speaker 1: why do I do the things that I do? Why

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Speaker 1: do I? Why do I taught you when you're just

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Speaker 1: trying to trying to help make me, make me a

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Speaker 1: successful person? What's wrong with me?

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Speaker 2: You like to self sabotage?

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Speaker 1: I love self sabotaging.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, you do, and like I recognize that.

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Speaker 3: So when you do it, I still I still help

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Speaker 3: anyways because I'm rooting for you.

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Speaker 1: So you speaking of self sabotaging. You know who doesn't

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Speaker 1: self sabotage?

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Speaker 2: God, I hope not a.

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Speaker 1: Very successful person. Our wonderful guest today Amanda Montell, author

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Speaker 1: of the book Cultish, which I've cited on this show.

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Speaker 2: We've all read. Yeah, we've all read the book.

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Speaker 1: If you have it, what are you doing inluence definitely

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Speaker 1: influenced the Zizzy AND's episodes influenced a lot of my work, Amanda,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here.

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Speaker 4: Hey, it's a joy and a pleasure. And you know,

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Speaker 4: so many of my sounds like a cult. Listeners are

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Speaker 4: obsessed with your show. That's how I learned about it

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Speaker 4: from them, So I stoked.

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Speaker 1: We love cults over here. You know, it's hard. It's

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Speaker 1: one of those things where it's both just objectively. Cult

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Speaker 1: leaders have the highest odds of any group of bad

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Speaker 1: people of being incredibly.

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Speaker 4: Entertaining, right, I know, I know, especially when your definition

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Speaker 4: of cult leader is as loose as mine, Lucy Goosey.

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Speaker 4: Uh yeah, endless, endless entertainment. I was thinking also, like,

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Speaker 4: as soon as people stop exploiting others, our podcasting career

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Speaker 4: are just gonna tank.

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Speaker 1: Well, the good news is I do have several generations

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Speaker 1: of people, several hundred generations of people being shitty to

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Speaker 1: each other to get through.

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Speaker 4: Oh so true. No, your your career stability is like

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Speaker 4: on Luck Nixon. Yet, Oh my god, no, you have

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Speaker 4: You're you're basically a tenured professor in the program of

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Speaker 4: bastard studies.

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Speaker 1: I just realized I sent Sophie the wrong script because

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Speaker 1: I was up til six am. But she's got the

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Speaker 1: right one now, and so do.

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Speaker 2: I am Robert Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 1: What could be better to do today when we have

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Speaker 1: Amanda Motel on then an episode that's not really about

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Speaker 1: a cult except for everything. I mean, I guess if

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Speaker 1: you want to call the Nazis ocult, it's a little

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Speaker 1: bit about a cult. But he wasn't even really.

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Speaker 5: Not sure oh okay, he was.

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Speaker 1: Just he was actually kind of Usually like when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about like a German who is like prominent in

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Speaker 1: the early thirties and you say like he wasn't a Nazi,

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Speaker 1: you're saying it to be like because he was like

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Speaker 1: some sort of hero, right or you know, someone who

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Speaker 1: was trying to do the right thing, you know, in

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Speaker 1: the middle okay, dark period. The guy we're talking about

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Speaker 1: today is a man named Alfred Hugenberg, and he wasn't

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Speaker 1: a Nazi in a way that makes him kind of

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Speaker 1: worse than the Nazis.

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Speaker 5: Holy shit, Oh my god, I'm pumped.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I said this at the beginning before we started recording,

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Speaker 4: but like, please don't apologize that we're not doing a

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Speaker 4: coal eader.

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Speaker 5: As you can imagine, I'm like.

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Speaker 4: Kind a sick of it, but I'm I'm on a

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Speaker 4: World War two kick.

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Speaker 2: I mean, actually it's.

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Speaker 5: Been an extended kick. It's been an extended kick.

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Speaker 4: So I'm yeah, is it appropriate to say like I'm

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Speaker 4: pumped to talk about Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: Shugenberg, fellow, we love the big dub dub dos and

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Speaker 1: this is Hugenberg is number one, one of the key

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Speaker 1: guys in making the Nazi regime happen, although again he's

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Speaker 1: not a Nazi and he hates them. He hates them,

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Speaker 1: okay because most Nazis are kind of poor for most

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Speaker 1: of the period time, and he is a rich dude.

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Speaker 1: This is Alfred Hugenberg. Be here to call him the

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Speaker 1: Elon Musca find our Germany.

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Speaker 5: That's the first thing. That's the first thing that came

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Speaker 5: to mind. That is the first thing that came.

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Speaker 4: To fucking mind, because like Elon, you know, he's playing ball,

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Speaker 4: but he you know that, he just disdains like sh No,

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Speaker 4: he thinks they're pitiful.

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Speaker 5: He thinks they're like small potatoes.

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Speaker 4: I allegedly, in my opinion, I don't know, I don't

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Speaker 4: know what's going on in that noggin of his Thank god,

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Speaker 4: but that's the first thing that came to mind.

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Speaker 1: No one ever has, so I guess let's just get

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Speaker 1: into this because it's one of those things. And when

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Speaker 1: it comes to his early life, not a super Elon

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Speaker 1: early life, when it comes to his role in the

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Speaker 1: Nazi regime, it's almost beat for beat exactly what Elon

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Speaker 1: has done, right to the point where like Elon is

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Speaker 1: now it looks like getting edged out of Doge. There's

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Speaker 1: a number of reports that Trump is kind of tired

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Speaker 1: of him. He said that he's stepping back. It's all

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Speaker 1: like all of that, but it's going to be an

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Speaker 1: interesting history of like a German piece of shit that

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Speaker 1: like doesn't sound all that much like Elon. And then

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Speaker 1: he's going to get in power and it's like, oh wow,

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Speaker 1: these guys was he was Elon? Just like cripping off

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Speaker 1: this fucker's notes, it's the same story. It's so funny.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, I'm so excited again. I'm not sure

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Speaker 4: if that's the right adjective, but like on the edge

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Speaker 4: of my seat, on the tips of.

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Speaker 1: My toes, I get I get giddy when I get

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Speaker 1: a new Hitler book in the mail. So I get it,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 5: Oh good, Okay, is that a problem?

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Speaker 1: Sure?

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Speaker 5: I feel I feel really free, I feel really safe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a safe place for us. Probably shouldn't

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Speaker 1: say Hitler stands, but.

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Speaker 5: Oh my god, I just loved Reich Knowers.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I just I Any anytime someone can pull off

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Speaker 4: saying the words Giddy and Hitler in one sence, I'm like,

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Speaker 4: we are cut from the same cloth.

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Speaker 1: My friend Hitler usually wasn't even giddy talking about Hitler

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Speaker 1: didn't like being around himself.

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Speaker 5: Oh that's what he needed the crowds.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and this is yeah, so we'll get into it.

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Speaker 1: Alfred Ernst Christian Alexander Hugenberg was born on June nineteenth,

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty five, in the city of Hanover, which five

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Speaker 1: years or so later would become the city of Hanover, Germany.

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Speaker 1: So again he predates Germany by about five years. These

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Speaker 1: are still just a bunch of states, with Austria being

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Speaker 1: or without Prussia being the dominant one.

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Speaker 5: Russia. I was gonna say Prussia, and I was like,

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Speaker 5: if that's wrong, I'm gonna sound so dumb. But it's

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Speaker 5: all giving Prussian era.

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Speaker 1: Goddamn Prussians and the goddamn Prussians, like as a as

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Speaker 1: a general rule, are they just pants Austria? Not not

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Speaker 1: far from the time that he's born, right, which is

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Speaker 1: why Austria is on you know. Anyway, So the fact

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Speaker 1: that Germany becomes a thing is largely the work of

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Speaker 1: a fella named Otto von Bismarck, who orchestrated a series

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Speaker 1: of wars, treaties, and alliances that culminated in the defeat

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Speaker 1: of Napoleon, the Thirds France and the rise of the

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Speaker 1: Prussian Kaiser as the emperor of all Germanic peoples, or

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Speaker 1: at least like is like Austria, Hungary is still separate

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Speaker 1: most of the Germanic peoples. In those heady early days

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Speaker 1: of Imperial Germany, people get very excited about the idea

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Speaker 1: of Germany. Right, It's like fucking pokemon when it starts off, right,

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Speaker 1: You folks can't get enough of Germany there?

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Speaker 6: What are they trying to catch other Germans? Right, Like,

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Speaker 6: that's the go We got to get all the Germans.

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Speaker 6: We got a katamari, all of the Germans into this thing,

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Speaker 6: and that'll pro and well, putting all the Germans in

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Speaker 6: one box seems like it'll not lead.

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Speaker 1: To a series of world wars. So there's this kind

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Speaker 1: of academic theory that's being promulgated, you know, around this time.

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Speaker 1: And obviously it's being promulgated before the formation of Germany,

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Speaker 1: but it really gets supercharged afterwards. And it's called pan Germanism.

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Speaker 1: And this is the assertion that Prussians and Bavarians and

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Speaker 1: Saxons and you know, Hanover Hanoverians or whatever shouldn't see

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Speaker 1: themselves as different peoples and certainly not as different nations,

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Speaker 1: but as one united German people who have a manifest

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Speaker 1: destiny to spread not just in Europe but across a

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Speaker 1: grand colonial empire that ought to because Germans are a

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Speaker 1: great people, and they deserve what the British have, Right,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of there's a lot of this, like

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Speaker 1: they're very insecure, the Germans in this period of time, right,

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Speaker 1: and so there's a lot of why don't we have

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff the British. The British have so

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Speaker 1: much stuff, any stuff?

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Speaker 5: Come on, God, Well, here's a cult. Here's a cult.

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Speaker 4: Parallel at a cult leader is often someone little chip

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Speaker 4: on their shoulder.

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Speaker 5: I was like, hey, hey, now.

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Speaker 1: That is that's every Kaiser to be honest, and it's

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Speaker 1: certainly auto von Bismarck. So they start they start being like,

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Speaker 1: how are we gonna how are we going to create

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Speaker 1: a space for us Germans that's worthy of the name. Now,

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Speaker 1: these kind of nascent ideas, even though they're starting to

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Speaker 1: gain traction, they're not even initially. They're not universally popular,

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Speaker 1: and not even within Germany because, among other things, these

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Speaker 1: different German states have been fighting each other up until

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Speaker 1: very recently. Right, the Prussian Yunker class, which is kind

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Speaker 1: of like their nobility, has a bunch of ancestral privileges,

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Speaker 1: right that they maintain even once Germany becomes a thing,

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Speaker 1: and they're not eager to give those up, right, They're like,

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Speaker 1: what you mean you mean I have to give up

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Speaker 1: my power over those uncouth Bavarians.

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Speaker 4: No, uh, And the idea not everybody, So not everybody's

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Speaker 4: down to be panned, No.

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Speaker 1: No, not everybody. This is this is like there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of conflict over this. Now, the idea that Germany

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Speaker 1: should expand colonially, largely in Africa is less objectionable. People

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Speaker 1: are very into this, but they're also not great at it. Right.

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Speaker 1: They kind of get like the shit their attitude and

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Speaker 1: everyone's attitude is they get kind of like the shitty

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Speaker 1: pieces of Africa, Like Namibia a lovely place, but it's

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Speaker 1: like not, it's like a desert, right, it's not at

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Speaker 1: the time seen as like, well, it doesn't have that

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Speaker 1: much stuff for us to exploit compared to like what

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Speaker 1: we want to be exploiting. And they're looking at the

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Speaker 1: British who own like fucking a third, like a shitload

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Speaker 1: of Africa, and like what the fuck, guys, And so

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Speaker 1: this is what's all. This is all what's going on

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Speaker 1: as Alfred Hugenberg has his childhood now, unlike Elon because

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Speaker 1: you know we've made that comparison, he is not born

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Speaker 1: into wealth or into really much privilege at all. Some

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Speaker 1: people will say his upbring was upbringing was comfortable. That's

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Speaker 1: not wildly untrue by the standards of the time, but

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Speaker 1: we would not see this as a comfortable upbringing, and

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Speaker 1: in fact it's kind of close to Hitler's childhood. Alfred's

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Speaker 1: dad is like a civil servant. He's a guy who

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Speaker 1: works in the administrative state, and he dies when Hugenberg

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Speaker 1: is very young, and Alfred is the only son in

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Speaker 1: the family, which is also like Hitler, and the Hitler

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Speaker 1: comparisons keep right on hitlering because both young men also

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Speaker 1: spend their adolescent years aware of the fact that their mom,

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Speaker 1: since their dad is gone, is incredibly financially strained. Right,

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Speaker 1: they have this pension, but none of the pensions are

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Speaker 1: enough to take care of a family, and so they're like,

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Speaker 1: they're there, it's a tremendously difficult time. And he can't

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Speaker 1: not have been aware of the fact that they were

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Speaker 1: poor now, right. So there are some other similarities between

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Speaker 1: Hitler and Hugenberg. Both young men were moved to create

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Speaker 1: art and their early years. Hitler becomes an obsessive devotee

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Speaker 1: of the opera and has ambitions as a painter. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Hugenberg is a really talented creative writer, with what biographer

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Speaker 1: John Leopold described as quote a flair for literary expression.

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Speaker 1: And you know, if your kid who's good at writing,

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Speaker 1: that can be a great way to express yourself and

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Speaker 1: to work through some of your trauma and stuff. Alfred

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Speaker 1: does not do any of that, sure, which is actually

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Speaker 1: a real difference. Because Hitler throws himself a whole hog

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Speaker 1: into being an artist, he kind of sucks at He's

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Speaker 1: not any good but like yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 5: Oh it's definitely giving, like George W. Bush's painting endeavor. Yes,

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Speaker 5: like yes, I don't know, although the order of operations

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Speaker 5: was slipped, w entered painting after his political tenure, right,

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Speaker 5: maybe Hitler should have done that. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I gotta say Hitler better painter than George W. Bush.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, less Bush. You know, there's a degree of

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Speaker 1: where like, okay, you're trying to like creatively represent how

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Speaker 1: you feel about the people you're painting. Hitler was just

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Speaker 1: sort of like look at that right building building.

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Speaker 5: No, they were like landscape hundred percent. He had no

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Speaker 5: point of view.

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Speaker 1: No, no, exactly exactly, but which probably says anyway people

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Speaker 1: have people have tried to psychoanalyze that ship for years.

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Speaker 1: What's interestingly about Hugenberg is that he has and he'll

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Speaker 1: write some books later, but he has like a literary

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Speaker 1: skill like he could have been, you know, a fiction

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Speaker 1: writer or something like that.

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Speaker 5: And he's Hubbard.

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Speaker 1: Well hey, I didn't say he could be anywhere as

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Speaker 1: good as LRH. You know, okay, okay, sorry, nobody the

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Speaker 1: man who could put a fifty thousand word novel out

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Speaker 1: in just seven hours of taking rents, uh, just popping

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Speaker 1: pills like you. I mean, we don't have the technology

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Speaker 1: for someone to be as on amphetamines as all Ron

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Speaker 1: Hubbard was back then, right, yeah, so true. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it really is like quite a special time and place,

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Speaker 1: so Hugenberg chooses. What's kind of interesting to me is

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Speaker 1: that Hugenberg doesn't just sort of like fail to explore

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Speaker 1: his potential as an artist. He purposefully forces himself not

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Speaker 1: to write, right, not to make art, because he just

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Speaker 1: like that's silly, and that's like artists are poor, and

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Speaker 1: I am not going to be poor. So thereby I

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Speaker 1: am going to make I'm going to stop myself from

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Speaker 1: exploring this thing that I'm good at in order to

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Speaker 1: study the things that will make me good as a businessman.

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Speaker 1: Right huh yeah, okay.

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Speaker 7: Very self flatullating interesting, Yes, well yeah, he very much

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Speaker 7: is this Like I this is not an appropriate thing

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Speaker 7: for a man who wants to be rich to do.

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Speaker 1: So even those is what I want to do, I

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Speaker 1: will stop myself from doing it because he wants he

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Speaker 1: is going to be rich, that's his like goal from

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Speaker 1: the start, and he's going to He's going to make

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Speaker 1: generational wealth, right, like he wants. He wants his kids

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Speaker 1: to help to part own the Reich, so he initially

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Speaker 1: follows in his father's path. He studies the law and

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Speaker 1: political economy in his secondary education. He is very well

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Speaker 1: in school, very bright guy, and he has from the

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Speaker 1: beginning a flair for money, which would have been noticed

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Speaker 1: by his instructors from the jump. They also would have

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Speaker 1: noticed his skill as a writer, but not for long

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Speaker 1: because he again he decides to quote unquote suppress his

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Speaker 1: skill in order to focus on his career. He talks

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Speaker 1: about it as like I made a choice to smother

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Speaker 1: the artistic side of me so that I could make

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Speaker 1: more money. Now Alfred makes a couple of friends, but

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Speaker 1: he has no real hobbies outside of his business ambitions.

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Speaker 1: And if he had anything we might term a pastime,

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Speaker 1: it was thinking about the way that the state and

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Speaker 1: the economy worked and how they ought to work. Right

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Speaker 1: very early age, he's thinking about why do the economics

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Speaker 1: of the time function this way? And like, how can

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Speaker 1: I changed them to function in what I would term

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Speaker 1: is like better. So his first while he's in college

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Speaker 1: effectively he gets you know, he does his dissertation right,

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Speaker 1: which is his first book length publication like these are

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Speaker 1: effectively books, and his first dissertation is titled Internal Colonization

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Speaker 1: in Northwest Germany, which he fitishes at the University of

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Speaker 1: Strasbourg in eighteen ninety one. In his book on Hugenberg,

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Speaker 1: John Leopold writes, quote, the young doctoral candidate analyzed and

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Speaker 1: detail the role of the state in fostering economic growth.

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Speaker 1: This volume depicted three themes which always undergird Hugenberg's political views. First,

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Speaker 1: the state would have to assist the farmer and totally

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Speaker 1: abandon a las ai ferre approach to agriculture. Second, the

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Speaker 1: farmer would have to act as an entrepreneur and form

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Speaker 1: a capitalist bulwark against Marxism. And third, Germany would have

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Speaker 1: to expand its empire. So a couple of things are

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Speaker 1: going on here when we talk about internal colonization Germany

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Speaker 1: right now, the imperial Germany includes a bunch of Poland

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Speaker 1: right now. If you're thinking, think back to your maps

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Speaker 1: of Europe. Poland's Poles, not Germans. These are within the

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Speaker 1: boundaries of the German state, a colonized people, and Germany

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Speaker 1: is sending German farmers into this occupied Polish territory to

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Speaker 1: try to Germanify it right, Like that's very much what's

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Speaker 1: going on, and Hugenberg's writing about that, but he's also

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Speaker 1: writing about like there's not really enough Poland for us,

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Speaker 1: like maybe we could get some more, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but also we need to be taking more of Africa

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Speaker 1: because we need to continue like kind of shotgunning these

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Speaker 1: farmers out, and we can't just sort of let the

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Speaker 1: market take care of them because then they might not succeed,

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Speaker 1: Like it's part of this. He's not really talking all

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Speaker 1: that much in racial terms, although he is a racist,

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Speaker 1: but he's very much the conclusions he comes to are

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Speaker 1: identical to the ones Hitler is going to come to

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Speaker 1: thinking through racial terms, which is interesting.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean, do you think do you think

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Speaker 4: I actually wasn't aware that Germany was sort of like

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Speaker 4: jealous of Britain's colonization.

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Speaker 1: Efforts, hugely jealous of Britain and hugely jealous of the

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Speaker 1: US Hitler killer is obsessed with.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, okay, that's key context because if a whole nation,

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Speaker 4: fledgling nation, whatever, nation that's trying to build itself has

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Speaker 4: you know, uh, like popular kid in school to look

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Speaker 4: up to and feel jealous of, that can create that

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Speaker 4: can create to use the school analogy some kind of

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Speaker 4: like in cell inferiority complex type behavior, which is what

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Speaker 4: I'm getting here.

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Speaker 1: This is exactly what's happening to all of Germany. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: badness is we've talked about those in the show. Hitler

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Speaker 1: rows up obsessed with the cowboy novels of a guy

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Speaker 1: named Karl May. Sorry, Karl May is like the JK.

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Speaker 1: Rowling of his day. He is a children's book author

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Speaker 1: who writes these books about like his experiences in the

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Speaker 1: American West, fighting alongside Indians, and they're all lies, like

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Speaker 1: he's a con mad. But Hitler is obsessed with this.

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Speaker 1: He like mails copies of them his generals on the

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Speaker 1: Western Front. But all of Germany is, and the late

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Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds and early nineteen hundreds obsessed with us, like

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Speaker 1: with westward expansion, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, rugged masculine expansion is a manifest destiny.

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Speaker 1: But also this there's this feeling like, well, America is

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Speaker 1: obviously destined to be a great nation. God has just

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Speaker 1: given them this empty continent with no people on it

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Speaker 1: that they get to take. They're jealous and Hugenberg that

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Speaker 1: this is such a foundational aspect of German, like the

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Speaker 1: German character that like, to this day there are festivals

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Speaker 1: to this guy in Germany, and like people will do

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Speaker 1: the equivalent of like US renfaars where they're dressing up

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Speaker 1: as Native Americans in Germany. That happened, This happens to day. No, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's a whole thing. It's a massive deal.

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Speaker 4: Wait, I can't, I can't, I can't get the irony

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Speaker 4: of like US throw the United States celebrating the European Renaissance,

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Speaker 4: and Europe celebrating like some fictionalized and surely very problematic

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Speaker 4: and fucked up vision of the.

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Speaker 5: Early days in the US. It's truly, the grass is

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Speaker 5: always the grass.

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Speaker 1: Is always greener on the other side of the imperialism.

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Speaker 1: So Hugenberg is not, you know, as obsessed with cowboys

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Speaker 1: as Hitler, but he's very much obsessed with this idea

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Speaker 1: of expansion and he sees he sees it as a

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Speaker 1: matter of survival for the German race. And he writes

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Speaker 1: that Germany will only quote gain power and significance by

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Speaker 1: taking it from others. And when he says others, he's

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Speaker 1: talking a little bit about Europeans, but he's mostly thinking

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Speaker 1: about Africa right now. While I said earlier that Alfred

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Speaker 1: was not a man with hobbies or a social life.

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Speaker 1: He does nothing but work. I mean he's getting a doctorate,

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Speaker 1: which you do kind of have to be that way

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Speaker 1: to get a doctorate for a little while at least,

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Speaker 1: right if any of my friends who got doctor it's

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Speaker 1: there anything to go by. But he does have one

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Speaker 1: extracurricular activity he starts to engage in around this time,

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Speaker 1: the same year he published his dissertation, eighteen ninety one,

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Speaker 1: he helps to co found a political club, the German

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Speaker 1: General League. Now you won't find a lot written about

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Speaker 1: this incarnation of the organization, but historian Barry Jackish describes

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Speaker 1: it as a political pressure group critical of the German

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Speaker 1: government's foreign and domestic policy decisions. Now that's a definition

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Speaker 1: so vague it could refer to an organization of any ideology.

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Speaker 1: So I should further say, the specific ideological launching point

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Speaker 1: of this group that Hugenberg starts with a bunch of

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Speaker 1: other guys is the idea of PA Germanism that I

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Speaker 1: discussed at the opening of the episode. Jackish continues, the

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Speaker 1: Pan Germans were an openly expansionist organization that called for

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Speaker 1: German colonies and spheres of influence throughout the world, and

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Speaker 1: the creation of a strong navy to reinforce Germany's newly

404
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,959
Speaker 1: gained status abroad. In domestic politics, the League supported an

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Speaker 1: authoritarian monarchy and opposed the growth of parliamentary democracy. The

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Speaker 1: League also sought to combat what it regarded as the

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Speaker 1: pernicious influence of a myriad of un German elements, particularly Slavs,

408
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 1: often Catholics, and ultimately Jews. So these are not Nazis

409
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 1: because those don't exist yet, But you're seeing the Nazi

410
00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 1: in this group, right, Like it's it's not so much

411
00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:46,800
Speaker 1: of a leap from this to the Nazis, right for sure, Yeah,

412
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Speaker 1: strung notes of Nazis, right, yeah, yeah, this is like

413
00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,199
Speaker 1: a Sega dreamcast. Isn't a PlayStation two, but.

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Speaker 8: Like, oh I can see what people were like working towards, right, Yeah,

415
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 8: for sure, this is the Sega Dreamcast of national socialism,

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Speaker 8: That's what we can say.

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00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,000
Speaker 1: So and also they are playing Crazy Taxi, So a

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00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,640
Speaker 1: lot of direct elements to the Sega Dreamcast. I'm gonna

419
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Speaker 1: guess nobody gets my Sega Dreamcast jokes.

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Speaker 4: But whatever I was, I was nodding and I wanted

421
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Speaker 4: to understand. I really it's like my partner will talk

422
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 4: about video games sometimes. That is a video game, right,

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00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 4: it was.

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Speaker 1: It was a video game system. It just didn't it didn't.

425
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Speaker 1: It didn't make it. It didn't make it. It came

426
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: out around the N sixty four in the PlayStation and

427
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 1: it did not last.

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Speaker 5: Oh I'm sorry to hear that. Anyway, we all are, we.

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Speaker 1: All are, We all are. It's a tragedy that rins

430
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Speaker 1: at me to this day, like the death of my grandfather.

431
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Speaker 1: So Alfred is a founding member of this group, but

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Speaker 1: he's not like the singular driving force behind it. When

433
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:52,920
Speaker 1: I say founding, there's like a bunch of guys who

434
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 1: get together to do this thing, and it kind of

435
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: it's going to pretty quickly take a back seat for

436
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 1: him because he's his career gets started, and he's just

437
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 1: got a lot of other shit on his mind. Wait,

438
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 1: you have a question, Sure, what does this guy look like?

439
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:06,479
Speaker 5: Uh?

440
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: Well, you can pull him up in a yeah, I mean,

441
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 1: I'll have Sophie pull up a picture of him. Obviously,

442
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:12,760
Speaker 1: most of them are going to be when he's older,

443
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:14,879
Speaker 1: because people didn't have as many photos of them when

444
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,000
Speaker 1: they were super young.

445
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 5: Eighteen sixty five.

446
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's born in sixty This is we're now when

447
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: like the eighteen eighties.

448
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 2: You're talking about you're talking about Alfred.

449
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, boy, Alfie, you're gonna it's this is like the

450
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: eighteen eighties right now.

451
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean in fairness nineties. It's the same.

452
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,679
Speaker 2: So I guess no, no, no, no no, the picture

453
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 2: is worth looking at it.

454
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 5: Vice.

455
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, the picture okay, you got I just like

456
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,760
Speaker 4: forgive me, I just I need a visual here.

457
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: The picture's worth a thousand words and most of them

458
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: are going to be Wow, that is a German ass man.

459
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 2: The hair is fun, the uh sash is fun.

460
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 5: Okay, i'll describe it. Here we go.

461
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's.

462
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:05,640
Speaker 5: Oh my god.

463
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 3: Okay.

464
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like he looks like dudes in in on my

465
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 4: side of town in Los Angeles located.

466
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,400
Speaker 1: He's got that like Bismarck's style mustage.

467
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 7: It's the way that I know exactly what neighborhood you live. Yeah,

468
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 7: oh yeah, let's not dox me, but no, you know,

469
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 7: I'll say this is what I'll say.

470
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 4: His his his his mustache is shaped like squidward from

471
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 4: SpongeBob's legs.

472
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 5: Yes, and that's exactly it, Yes, and it's white.

473
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,760
Speaker 4: And his glasses are perfectly round there, Harry Potter glasses.

474
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: Honestly, he's got he's got squidward legs as a mustage.

475
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: Squidwards legs is a mustache, like perfectly round, uh, Harry

476
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 1: Potter glasses and his haircut. If you've seen the movie

477
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: Falling Down, he's got like an old man heightened tight

478
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: like it's a remarkable combination of things. And like, by

479
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 1: this point, this is a picture him when he's older.

480
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: You had money for a barber. You were one of

481
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 1: the richest men on the planet.

482
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 5: What is no, this was super on purpose?

483
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: That does really, that does get us back to the

484
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 1: Elon must comparisons, because it's like, wow, neither of you

485
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: motherfuckers know how to get a haircut, Jesus Christ, I say,

486
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: looking the way I do today. But Jesus Christ, you

487
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 1: a great Robert.

488
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 5: Although similar to Elon and Alfie, the hairline, the hairlines impressed,

489
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 5: I mean.

490
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 1: And he did not have the ability to have a

491
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: turkish man's hair transplanted onto his scalp. Yes, that is

492
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,320
Speaker 1: not a turkish man's hair. That's all Hugenberg.

493
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 4: Totally, which was honestly amazing, especially considering that he was

494
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 4: such a bad person.

495
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 5: You would think, like, no, that would have affected.

496
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: Some terrible people are graced with an incredible head of

497
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: hair like Fabio. Fabio was a bad person, I'm just

498
00:26:58,880 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: consulting him from no.

499
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 2: Who knows.

500
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 1: Given his humble beginnings, Hugenberg started his career as an

501
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 1: entry level civil servant, so he has no nepotism to

502
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: benefit from. Right, he's not getting like a head start.

503
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 1: He's going to get ahead because he's good. He becomes

504
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 1: a member, he gets hired for the Prussian Settlement Commission

505
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,160
Speaker 1: in Posen, which again is Prussia had conquered this chunk

506
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: of Poland and they have a commission to help settle it,

507
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,080
Speaker 1: and he is helping to manage that from eighteen ninety

508
00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 1: four to eighteen ninety nine. This gives him a degree

509
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: of influence in the German States. Attempts to reform some

510
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 1: land use policies that were essentially holdovers from the medieval era. Right,

511
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,040
Speaker 1: they've got these kind of medieval policies on, like the

512
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: aristocracy owning land that slow down colonizing it because a

513
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 1: lot of land is just meant to be like where

514
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: that where this did duke or whatever hunts And that's

515
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 1: great if you're a duke, and it's actually probably pretty

516
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: good from like a wildlife conservation aspect, but it's really

517
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: bad from a farming you know. And Germany's whole thing

518
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 1: is we don't have enough food. We can't make enough

519
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: food to not die on our owns, right and this

520
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 1: is constantly on our minds. So again Posen is like

521
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: it's an eternal colony within Germany. Most of the population's Polish,

522
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,720
Speaker 1: but there's this small number of German farmers whose expansion

523
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: was desired by the government. However, said expansion is stemied

524
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 1: by the fact that many Polish people already had claim

525
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: to the land. Hugenberg suggested ways to uproot them, but

526
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,480
Speaker 1: ultimately quit his job when the government refused to revise

527
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: its inadequate policy towards the Poles. And again that inadequate

528
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,439
Speaker 1: policy is you're letting them live in their own homes,

529
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: right like that, that's the issue that he has with Poland.

530
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: You know what I just saw, just like because.

531
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 4: The obviously like the use of euphemism within the Nazi

532
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 4: regime and their campaigning is well studied and documented.

533
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 5: But I will never get over it. And if this

534
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 5: guy Alfhie had his roots in creative writing, I bet

535
00:28:58,600 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 5: he was a master of you.

536
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah. Now this is Hugenberg's first foray into entrepreneurship.

537
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,479
Speaker 1: As soon as he quits, you know, this government job

538
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: because it's not working fast enough, and he immediately really

539
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: reveals himself to have a head for this kind of work.

540
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: He creates a series of land co ops that allow

541
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: so he goes into business independently, and he starts going

542
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: to these different groups of farmers who are trying to

543
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,280
Speaker 1: colonize to what this territory that is like the center

544
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: of modern Poland, and he starts putting them in together

545
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 1: and making co ops, right, And the purpose of this

546
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: is because each of these independently these small German farmers

547
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: have no economic power and so kind of keep getting

548
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: fucked over. And he forms them into co ops so

549
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,680
Speaker 1: that they can basically collectively set prices and bargain for

550
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: better prices, right, like the very modern thing you know

551
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: that he's doing here, And it works like this makes

552
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: all of these farms much more successful, and it helps

553
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:04,680
Speaker 1: stimulate the growth of like more independent like more German settlers,

554
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: like farming in this area. The project is successful enough

555
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: that in nineteen oh four he gets hired back to

556
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: the civil service in a significantly better position, right, Special

557
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: Advisor for Economic Development to the East. So he's just

558
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: kind of like a guy stuck in the cogs of

559
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: the machine. He bounces. He has this incredibly successful co

560
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: op thing for all these farmers, and it does well

561
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: enough that now he's the special advisor for all economic

562
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 1: development in the East.

563
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 3: Now.

564
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 1: One of the thing that's going on in the East

565
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 1: is I had insinuated earlier, is in Prussia, you've got

566
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: all these younkers, right, who are these They're like the nobility, right,

567
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: And these guys are also a lot of like the

568
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: fighting nobility, because like Prussians are warriors, that's what you

569
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: do if you're a Prussian younger. But they also have

570
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: these vast family estates, often with thousands of acres of land,

571
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: and they're just kind of fucking around on them, right,

572
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: you know. They're the aristocracy does that every where they can,

573
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: And so Hugenberg doesn't want things to work that way.

574
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 1: He wants this land to be freed up, if it's

575
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: not being farmed, for more farmers to buy it. Now,

576
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: like all conservative Germans, and Alfred is very conservative. His

577
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: interest is in autarchy, right. He wants the state to

578
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,560
Speaker 1: be able to produce all of its own necessities. You know,

579
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: we just had the tariffs come down yesterday. It's kind

580
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: of the same idea, right. Conservatives never quite get over this,

581
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: what if we didn't need anyone else? And it's like,

582
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, do you like coume quats because

583
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: that's kind of critical that shays.

584
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, fuck Jesus.

585
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 1: It's a little more understandable in this period as a

586
00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,720
Speaker 1: German because they're always aware of like, okay, well we've

587
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 1: got Russia on one side and they don't always like us,

588
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: and we got France on the other and they don't

589
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: always like us, and then the English control the seas,

590
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: so we're really easy to starve. You know, it would

591
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: be great if we could grow enough food to not starve.

592
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: So Hugenberg set to work applying his three principles to

593
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: the problem of all these giant, useless estates going unmanaged.

594
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: Being a practical guy, he came up with what seemed

595
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 1: like a simple solution, and he published a book about

596
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: his work with the farming co ops, im Posen, and

597
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: how similar tactics could be used to encourage the rapid

598
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: accumulation and deployment of capital to properly settle the East.

599
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: Alfred insisted that the state's role in all of this

600
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: was not to stick with the traditional younger view of

601
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: property and instead to use its power to encourage competition.

602
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 1: He wanted them to pass laws to confiscate large unproductive

603
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: estates and resettle them with small farmers who would form

604
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: co ops. I won't give Hugginberg credit for a lot,

605
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: but this probably would have worked. And I based this

606
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: on the fact that basically one hundred percent of the

607
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: time shit like this got tried and peasants were given

608
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,239
Speaker 1: access to large areas of raw land to split up

609
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: and manage in common, productivity increased, and it especially increased

610
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: over the old way of quote letting some rich guy

611
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: use it as a private park. Right, It's just more

612
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: effective in a farm in terms of yield. However, the

613
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: rich guys that Hugenberg wants to dispossess are the rich guys, right.

614
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: These are the people running things because the Prussians are

615
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: kind of the most powerful group within Imperial Germany, and

616
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,280
Speaker 1: they don't like that Hugenberg wants to take their shit.

617
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to quote from Leopold's book here. Confronted with

618
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: strong opposition from youngers and others opposed to this proposal,

619
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: state officials hesitated in their advocacy of this legislation. Hugenberg

620
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: scorned their pedantic political conscience and again left the civil service.

621
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: So he's like, fuck you guys, I'm going home. You know,

622
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go do my own thing now. I tried

623
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: working through the government. It's useless. Word, yes, you know,

624
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: it's not useless. You know what should be the government,

625
00:33:54,760 --> 00:34:00,520
Speaker 1: the products and services that support this podcast. They should

626
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: run the country.

627
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 8: Why not they?

628
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: Could they be worse? Could it be worse?

629
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 5: Maybe?

630
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:15,720
Speaker 1: Ah, and we're back. I don't know. I think Chumba

631
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 1: Casino would be a good overlord. It seems ethical casinos

632
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: are always nice. Uh, we could all smoke indoors, you know,

633
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: that's how casinos were a vibe. That is a vibe.

634
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: So he bounces gets out of government again, and his

635
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: dream is to make East Prussia not a backwater, right, Like,

636
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,879
Speaker 1: that's kind of what he wants in this period of time.

637
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,320
Speaker 1: But he's been he's been stymied and Alfred. He's not

638
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: an introspective soul, no, nor is he to kind of

639
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: waste his energy being disappointed. So he right away gets

640
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 1: a job on the board of directors for a bank

641
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: and Frankfort that serves several mining concerns, and not just mining,

642
00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: but companies like generally in the metal business, so suppliers

643
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,799
Speaker 1: and producers of raw materials. And his job, his role

644
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 1: here is reorganizing and rearranging things to enhance the profitability

645
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: of everyone in this industry. Right Basically, all of the

646
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: owners of these different minds and sort of like mineral

647
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 1: concerns and whatnot are all putting a chunk of their

648
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: money in like a common pile to be used in

649
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 1: Hugenberg is managing it. He's an early hedge fund manager. Right, wait,

650
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,200
Speaker 1: you know it's not that bad, so, but that's what

651
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:28,719
Speaker 1: he's doing.

652
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 4: I am so dumbfounded by this guy's disposition. Like he

653
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 4: wanted to be a creative writer.

654
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 5: I'm still stuck on that, and then he suppressed it.

655
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: To become someone hedge funds.

656
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 4: You said, yeah, in hedge funds. I'm just like, what,

657
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 4: how does that? How does that make sense? Like, is

658
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 4: he truly like a renaissance man and so adaptable or

659
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 4: was he never truly an artist to begin with? And

660
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 4: he just kind of like told himself he was suppressing

661
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 4: his artistic tendencies, but really he was meant for this.

662
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 1: He writes several books. I don't know if I'd say

663
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: he was meant to be a creative writer, but I

664
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: think the thing is more he is utterly obsessed in

665
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: the way that poor kids sometimes wind up being. If

666
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,359
Speaker 1: I am not going, I am owned to be somebody, right, yeah, yeah,

667
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: And this is how you'd.

668
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 5: Be an opportunist. However, whatever path will lead me.

669
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,440
Speaker 1: Become hell or highwater, I will fucking be somebody, right.

670
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 1: That's this dude. So his role in this kind of

671
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: early hedge fund ish position is to, like, yeah, enhance profitability,

672
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,319
Speaker 1: and he does. He does well enough that he gets

673
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 1: hired on next to run a bank, like a whole

674
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 1: banking firm, so like basically a network of banks that's

675
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 1: run by a prosperous Jewish family. The Mertens now Huggenberg

676
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:51,920
Speaker 1: is a raging anti Semite, as is the German General League,

677
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: which he's still a member of, which by this point

678
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: has changed its name to the much catchier Pan German League,

679
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: and they'd only doubled down on the anti Semitism since then.

680
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: But this doesn't seem to stop him from being willing

681
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 1: to work for this rich family. The Mertens. Now the

682
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: League at this point, it's not a mass organization, nor

683
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: does it want to be one. It's got maybe a

684
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:14,719
Speaker 1: few thousand members at this point. It's going to top

685
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,800
Speaker 1: out at thirty eight thousand people, which is very small

686
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: for one of these. Again, by the time by the Nazia,

687
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: there's going to eventually be a couple million Brown Shirts, right,

688
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 1: So this is not a huge organization, but members of

689
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: them are professional people, often with a lot of money

690
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,840
Speaker 1: and influence. So the Pan German League is hugely influential culturally.

691
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:37,240
Speaker 1: It punches above its weight class, right because the members

692
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 1: of it are guys like Hugenberg. They're social climbers, or

693
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,400
Speaker 1: they're already rich and influential. Now, I quoted from that

694
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,400
Speaker 1: historian Barry Jackish a little earlier, and those quotes were

695
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,760
Speaker 1: from a book he wrote on the Pan German League

696
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 1: titled The Pan German League and Radical Nationalist Politics in

697
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 1: inter War Germany, which is a very accurate title, but

698
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: not very clickable. You know, seven things you didn't know

699
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: about German National. There's a lot of better ways to

700
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: title it, Barry, I'm just saying, sorry.

701
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 5: The BuzzFeed era hadn't hit yet.

702
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

703
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 1: So here's it's a very good book. And here's how

704
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 1: Barry describes the league's membership. The Pan German League drew

705
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 1: the vast majority of its members from the social strata

706
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: identified by the German terms bildung un Besitz, or the

707
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 1: propertied and educated middle class. And this is where we

708
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: get to a very important and very German prerequisite for

709
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: the rise of the nazis one that doesn't get discussed

710
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: a lot. We love to talk about and I do

711
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 1: it on this show. The things that graph exactly to

712
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 1: shit that's been happening in the US when we talk

713
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: about the fall of Vymar and the rise of German fascism,

714
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: because there are a lot of similarities, but there's a

715
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 1: lot of differences too, which is I think are important

716
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: emphasized now because I think some people get like, oh

717
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: my god, we've done all these other things that are

718
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 1: similar to Vymar, We're destined to do this. We're not right.

719
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 1: It can go different for us. And part of why

720
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: it's because like it is a very different culture. We're

721
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 1: not Germany at any point.

722
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 4: Wait, I actually have two questions about that. Well, no,

723
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:08,399
Speaker 4: I have a I have a comment and a question.

724
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 4: So bringing it to colts, people do the same thing

725
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 4: making comparisons between Donald Trump and Jim Jones, and we

726
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 4: loved and including myself like you, I love, I love

727
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 4: to point out rhetorical similarities the way that they weapon

728
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:29,840
Speaker 4: I thinkna, yes, but there are extremely noteworthy differences that

729
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 4: are equally important to emphasize. And Jonestown was unprecedented and

730
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 4: since unreplicated thing, and Jim Jones read Nietzsche and Donald Trump.

731
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 1: I mean it doesn't read anything one thing. But the

732
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: Jonestown story has a courageous US congressman risking his life

733
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: and for his constituents.

734
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 5: Again, no, honestly, that's a great point.

735
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 4: But there there there was there was some drama with

736
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 4: a plane, and that's that's really happened. There were a

737
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 4: lot of Yeah, but my question related to this somewhat.

738
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 4: And this is a really basic question. So maybe this

739
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 4: will sound like kindergarten level, but like I don't really

740
00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 4: understand and have never really understood how German nationalism among

741
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 4: these guys like.

742
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 5: Hitler and Alfie. How was it so raging? Like, I

743
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 5: don't I don't find that. I mean, I know Trump,

744
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 5: but Trump doesn't have American nationalism.

745
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: I find for one thing. I mean, Trump definitely uses

746
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,600
Speaker 1: American nationalism.

747
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,840
Speaker 5: He uses it, yes, but I don't think he feels it.

748
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 2: In his soul.

749
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:43,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is one of those things to an extent

750
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: you simply can't understand because nationalism is a new idea then, right,

751
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:51,840
Speaker 1: The idea of a nation state and the way we

752
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,320
Speaker 1: conceive of it is fairly new. And also the idea

753
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 1: of just like being being the idea that like I'm

754
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 1: a Serb and so I should have a certain right.

755
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: People haven't always thought that way, right, Like, the these

756
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: are kind of new, and especially the idea again, they

757
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:11,279
Speaker 1: had to really it took a lot to convince all

758
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: these different Germanic states that you're all Germans. There's a

759
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: storyman of telling a little bit that I think will

760
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: make some of this make a little bit more sense.

761
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:23,399
Speaker 4: Yeah, No, that's already helpful, because, like a novelty, when

762
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 4: something is brand new, you like don't really know what

763
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 4: it means yet, because we don't have the context in

764
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:32,440
Speaker 4: the retrospect. But yeah, sexy, it's exciting. It's like AI

765
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 4: stuff now like in seventy years.

766
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: Well, nationalism is the AI of the of the century. Yes, totally.

767
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,399
Speaker 1: I mean there's an extent to which, like, at least

768
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: in terms of how excited people are by the idea

769
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: that that's not totally wrong.

770
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.

771
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: Now, when we talk about like why did Germany go

772
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: in the direction it did, this is really where the

773
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: seeds of a lot of the things that that you

774
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: know culminate in the thirties are being planted. And a

775
00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 1: lot of leftists like to argue that fast evolves out

776
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 1: of capitalism, you know, the bourgeoisie and especially conservatives in

777
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:09,600
Speaker 1: the BOURGEOISI inevitably turned fascist once their material interests are threatened.

778
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,840
Speaker 1: Now we'll leave out now talk about well how accurate

779
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: that is a depiction of what's happening in the United

780
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: States right now, But seeing things that simplistically misses some

781
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: very important aspects of how Nazism got going in Germany.

782
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 1: Because Nazism is a radical political movement. Nazis don't like conservatives.

783
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: In fact, they kill a lot of them, right that

784
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 1: they don't target them the way they do the left

785
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 1: in any way. But they are not a conservative movement

786
00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 1: and they don't see themselves as conservatives, and they're not

787
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 1: really very keen on capitalists either, although a lot of

788
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 1: capitalists eventually do support them out of self interest. I'm

789
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 1: saying this because Hugenberg is never a Nazi in the

790
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 1: ideological sense of the word. He is a monarchist and

791
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,280
Speaker 1: he is a social and economic conservative. And the Pandramanic League,

792
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: while there's things in it you can see as like, oh,

793
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 1: I see how Nazism arrived from this, it's more that

794
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: the soil is the same, right, and so the plants

795
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 1: have some similar characteristics that are coming up. The Pan

796
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:13,480
Speaker 1: German League is not going after the Nazis are initially

797
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: going after like the poor and downtrodden, right, those are

798
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: Hitler's like earliest recruits and like veterans, disaffected veterans. That's

799
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: not who the Pan Germanic League is going after. It

800
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: is laser targeted at the group of people that Leopold

801
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 1: identifies as Buildung and Besitz. And there's another term for

802
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:36,880
Speaker 1: that group, and that term is Buildung's burgertam right, and

803
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 1: that is crudely we might say the upper middle class,

804
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: it means literally the cultivated bourgeoisie. In his book The

805
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:49,280
Speaker 1: Fateful Alliance, historian Hermann Beck writes Germany owed its reputation

806
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 1: and scholarship, administration, and technical expertise to this numerically small

807
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: but socially influential, university trained elite. The buildungs Burgertum was

808
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:01,760
Speaker 1: a uniquely German phenomena on that originated as a distinct

809
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,279
Speaker 1: social class in the second half of the eighteenth and

810
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 1: early nineteenth centuries. And these are the people who are

811
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: who run things. They're not the people who are in

812
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: charge of things, right, that's generally the nobility. They are

813
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 1: the people who are being delegated the task of actually

814
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: making shit happen, right, because they have the educations. And

815
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,280
Speaker 1: this is a class that in the earliest period, including

816
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 1: the where we're up to the eighteen nineties, is a

817
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: progressive and liberal class. That's going to change. They're going

818
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 1: to become extremely conservative in the nineteen hundreds, but they're

819
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: not initially. And in fact, the first man to posit

820
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: what we would consider a modern view of what homosexuality is,

821
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: and the first gay man to come out publicly is

822
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: a member of the Buildings Burger TomEE in eighteen sixty seven,

823
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: the first modern like guy both too, and when I

824
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: say a modern understanding of homosexuality, this guy, Karl Ulrichs

825
00:44:56,560 --> 00:45:01,040
Speaker 1: comes to a conclusion that like, oh, homosexuality logically is

826
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: something I'm born as. Right, this isn't a choice. It

827
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 1: was viewed as both a choice and as like a

828
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: deviant thing. Right, Carl convinces himself like, no, no, no,

829
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: this is like a natural thing. And as a result,

830
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: we are a discriminated underclass and the laws need to change.

831
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,879
Speaker 1: And he comes out in public in eighteen sixty seven

832
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:21,439
Speaker 1: at a town meeting, and so he's like he's simultaneously

833
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: like introducing everyone at the meeting to the concept of

834
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: homosexuality and also saying, and I am one, which is

835
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 1: wildly brave, Like he is this jam rocks Well, he's

836
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 1: a member of the Buildings Burgertum, as is Alha Shugenberg

837
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,239
Speaker 1: and okay, cool in terms of like seeing how this

838
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:44,280
Speaker 1: gets how things shift. Nationalism in the late eighteen hundreds

839
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 1: is a progressive liberal ideology right in part because of

840
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: what it means about sort of how pre existing elites

841
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 1: needed to not have the kind of power that they

842
00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 1: used to have. And Carl Ulrichs is a national German nationalist,

843
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 1: you know, previous to the existence of Germany. And normally

844
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:06,800
Speaker 1: people see that they're like, okay, well that's right wing. No, no, no,

845
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: he is a German nationalist because the state, the German

846
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 1: state he is in, homosexual sex sodomy is legal, but

847
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: in Prussia it's illegal, and Prussia is pushing to dominate

848
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 1: all these other states. And so Rix becomes a German

849
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: nationalist because he's like, then we we other Germans will

850
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: be strong enough to force the Prussians to stop being

851
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 1: big ated against gay people. So when we talk about

852
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: German nationalism, this is not always like a right wing,

853
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: regressive ideology. There's a and in Hugenberg's earliest days there's

854
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: a lot of very progressive aspects to it.

855
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 4: It is utterly fascinating that like living through present political times,

856
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 4: we think like, oh, you know this label that describes

857
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:59,040
Speaker 4: this particular group of thinkers, that that correlation will be perennial,

858
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 4: like that will always mean that, but you know, it's

859
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 4: like no, but no, it can flip changes.

860
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: The Republican Party used to be a very different thing.

861
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 1: That's eighteen sixty five or so. So from the beginning,

862
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:20,839
Speaker 1: this uniquely German class, the buildings Burgertum, was characterized by

863
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 1: a close relationship to the state, since its strongest component

864
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: came from the upper echelons of state bureaucracies and various

865
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:31,399
Speaker 1: German states. In addition to the people who are kind

866
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 1: of like running the government, there's also a lot of professors.

867
00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 1: University professors are generally of this class, as well as

868
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:42,400
Speaker 1: a lot of prominent lawyers. Right. And the origins of

869
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 1: this entire social class actually traced back to a guy

870
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 1: named Wilhelm von Humboldt. Humboldt was an educational reformer in

871
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: the early eighteen hundreds who remakes the whole Prussian education

872
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 1: system and he is a big believer in the power

873
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,800
Speaker 1: of the individual to reach their full potential or buildung

874
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: through education. Right, among other innovations, he codifies the idea

875
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,080
Speaker 1: of a national school system for kind of the first

876
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 1: time in the West that starts with primary school and

877
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: then secondary school and then university education. Everyone adopts this.

878
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,160
Speaker 1: The foundations of our education system, such as it is,

879
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: are traced directly back to Humboldt and his reform of

880
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: the Prussian system. Right. He is basically the father of

881
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,600
Speaker 1: the concept of universal mandatory education, which is paid for

882
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 1: by the state, and it's one of those there's a

883
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: lot of modern day criticisms of the Prussian system. People

884
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 1: will argue it only exists to provide soldiers, right, and

885
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: so the schools just trying to make you into a

886
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,280
Speaker 1: good soldier for capitalism, and like, there's not one hundred

887
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,640
Speaker 1: percent wrong. These were Prussians, so that was a big

888
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: part of why they wanted to educate people so they'd

889
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: be useful for the state. But Humbold's also a very

890
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 1: progressive guy for his time, and it would not be

891
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 1: fair to categorize him as like some sort of like

892
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: weirdo fascist, you know, because that's just not what's going

893
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: on at this point in time. He was not trying

894
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: to make students into little robots. His goal was to

895
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 1: was his citizenry who was capable of reasoning, thinking outside

896
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: of the box, and actively learning so is to better

897
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 1: serve the state. But he wasn't trying to like lock

898
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: people into a little box. And his reforms work well

899
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: enough that by the time Alfred Hugenberg is getting his start,

900
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,800
Speaker 1: Germany has the best universities on the planet, and it

901
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: is universally agreed the best doctors in scientists are German, right,

902
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,760
Speaker 1: And it's because they start having a modern university system

903
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: between everyone else in the early nineteen hundreds. Germany is

904
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: the font of learning in the West, and very much

905
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: is seen as that way, especially in the medical realm.

906
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:43,760
Speaker 1: And this is that's a huge part of this class

907
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: that Hugenberg is a part of the buildings burgertomy. These

908
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: are they're characterized by their belief that education makes people better.

909
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: And because we're educated, we're better.

910
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:57,919
Speaker 5: Right, better, like morally better, yes, or better?

911
00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,279
Speaker 1: Yes, very much that way too. Yes, So you can

912
00:50:01,320 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 1: see where the problems start to arise. Right, there's this

913
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: good thing of like they're like, we need to have

914
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: an expansive and well funded education system. Great, and also

915
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 1: we're better than the rest of you.

916
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, we're like more valid valuables.

917
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 1: That's probably going to go in a bad direction. So

918
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:22,839
Speaker 1: as you're starting to see there's some danger in having

919
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: a class like this, right, and what starts with a

920
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: well deserved sense of accomplishment in their own system morphs

921
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:32,280
Speaker 1: into this overall sense of superiority. Right, if the world

922
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,400
Speaker 1: is copying the German education system, which it is. Doesn't

923
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: it make sense that Germans should rule more of the world, right,

924
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: That's really a lot of how the thinking as this

925
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 1: progressive liberal class becomes more conservative. That's part of what

926
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: they're thinking now. Yeah, so you know that's going to

927
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: be a problem. It's this kind of thing that like,

928
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: by the end of the eighteen seventies they've stopped really

929
00:50:57,200 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 1: being as liberal, and by the eighteen nineties their advocates

930
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 1: of imperialism and they are aggressive nationalists. It's no longer

931
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 1: oh Rick's very reasonably progressive nationalism. It is a what

932
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: if we just took everything kind of nationalism? Right?

933
00:51:11,840 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

934
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: So by early in nineteen oh nine, Hugenberg has made

935
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: a name for himself as a great businessman and financier

936
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: and an innovative thinker in the field of imperialism. He

937
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: gets scouted by the son of one of our old bastards,

938
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: a guy named Gustav Krupp, and Gustav is the inheritor

939
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: of the Krupp weapons dynasty. These are the guys who

940
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:35,440
Speaker 1: had made Germany possible. Because Germany comes into being in

941
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: eighteen seventy when they beat the French in a war,

942
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:40,360
Speaker 1: and they beat the French because Napoleon the Third is

943
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: still using brass cannons that are basically identical to the

944
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 1: ones the first Napoleon had used, and Friedrich Krupp his

945
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: people figured out how to make modern steel artillery that

946
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 1: is just so much better at killing men.

947
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 5: Oh my god, wait was that guy was he? Was

948
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 5: he an art collector?

949
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean there were very rich families,

950
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 1: so yeah, they bought a lot of art.

951
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:08,280
Speaker 5: I think I went to an art exhibit in Zurich

952
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 5: that was exhibiting.

953
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:15,720
Speaker 4: He probably did art collection and like trying to reckon

954
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 4: with how those pieces were acquired.

955
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 5: It was really interesting.

956
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,320
Speaker 1: The Crups, I mean, they're like Bezos level of wealthy

957
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,319
Speaker 1: for the time, right, because they are selling the whole

958
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: world guns, right, they make the best ones. Now, Krupp

959
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 1: is a member of the aristocracy, right, but he's looking

960
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 1: for he is an understanding of like his limitations financially,

961
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,839
Speaker 1: and so he's scouting for a man of quote, really

962
00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 1: superior intelligence to become the new chairman of the board

963
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 1: of directors for Krupp and Hugenberg. He immediately recognizes as

964
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:51,759
Speaker 1: a genius and he gives him the job. Right, So

965
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:56,440
Speaker 1: Hugenberg is kind of the CEO of Krupp Arms, of

966
00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 1: the biggest gun company in the world right ever existed

967
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: up to this point and for more. He is going

968
00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 1: to be the guy running a lot of Technically, he's

969
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 1: primarily doing the financial decisions for krup so he's not

970
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: designing guns. But he is like the headman at Krupp

971
00:53:14,200 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 1: for the decade up to leading up to World War One, right,

972
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,600
Speaker 1: Oh my god. And what's what Krupp is doing in

973
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: this period is pushing the Kaiser to build the machine

974
00:53:24,239 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: of death that is the German mobilization schedule, right. And

975
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 1: part of what they're doing is Crupp is going around

976
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 1: and they're they're going to one country and being like, hey,

977
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:34,760
Speaker 1: we'll sell you these guns. You rarely got to modernize.

978
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 1: Your guns are a generation or two behind your neighbor,

979
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,399
Speaker 1: and like they're getting armed, so why don't you get armed?

980
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:42,040
Speaker 1: And then once they arm that country, they'll go to

981
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: another and be like, hey, your neighbor just bought a

982
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 1: bunch of You really got to get some new guns, right,

983
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 1: And this keeps everybody's anxiety.

984
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's just like I just sold your neighbor a

985
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 5: stack of Bibles.

986
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 1: But this works so well, and heerg is, you know,

987
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:03,760
Speaker 1: on the finance side of things that like dividends expand

988
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 1: from eighteen eight to fourteen percent from nineteen oh nine

989
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 1: to nineteen thirteen, like that's and that's a big deal.

990
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: Krupp is making so much fucking money. And because Alfred

991
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: is running shit, he becomes spectacularly wealthy. And the balance guy,

992
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: I think hundreds of millions of dollars by the standards

993
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:24,839
Speaker 1: of his time, right, that's that's probably that's about where

994
00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 1: he is in terms of like our modern concept of things.

995
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: He's not like a billionaire yet, but hundreds of millions now,

996
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: despite the fact that he is making Gustav Krupp so

997
00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 1: much fucking money, the Krupts are again aristocracy, and Hugenberg,

998
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:42,719
Speaker 1: despite his wealth, is just a burger, right, He's he's

999
00:54:42,800 --> 00:54:44,880
Speaker 1: not like a he's a common man, you know. He

1000
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: comes from like the nicer part of the common class.

1001
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 1: But Gustav doesn't really mean money. He's not going to

1002
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 1: hang with him, right, As biographer Leopold writes, though everyone

1003
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: was impressed with his extraordinary intelligence and obvious ability, there

1004
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,879
Speaker 1: is no indication that Hugenberg during his ten years stay

1005
00:55:00,920 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: at Krups ever developed anything more than a formal relationship

1006
00:55:04,560 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: with his employer. The patrician aloofness of the securely established

1007
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:11,960
Speaker 1: Crups contrasted sharply with a dogged determination to succeed which

1008
00:55:12,080 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 1: characterized Hugenberg. Indeed, Hugenberg seemed temple bad hang. He's a

1009
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 1: bad hang. Indeed, Hugenberg seemed typical of that class of

1010
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,880
Speaker 1: general directors which George Bernard described as being driven by

1011
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 1: an inferiority complex because they know they are dependent and

1012
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,520
Speaker 1: in the final analysis, are as disposable as any other employee.

1013
00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:36,080
Speaker 1: Lack of security made such a director continually harder and

1014
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:41,280
Speaker 1: more uncompromising than the owner himself, Possibly as a psychological compensation,

1015
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: Hugenberg in these years emphasized the inflexibility, stubbornness, and self

1016
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:49,839
Speaker 1: righteousness which would characterize his political career. So he knows

1017
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,719
Speaker 1: you don't need me, you can throw me away if

1018
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 1: I stop making you money, and that drives him to

1019
00:55:55,200 --> 00:55:57,640
Speaker 1: be the son of a bitchiest of the sons of

1020
00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:59,640
Speaker 1: bitches in business in this period.

1021
00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 5: And my god, just you know this is maybe this

1022
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 5: is gonna sound like a fucked up thing.

1023
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 2: To say, but like.

1024
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:11,319
Speaker 5: Maybe he needed more love, you know, like did his parents?

1025
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know who.

1026
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 5: Away?

1027
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 1: I mean, okay, maybe later. Not a big personal life guy,

1028
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:20,799
Speaker 1: you know.

1029
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, isn't it you know? Yeah, it's just this fucking.

1030
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 1: Loly scrooge plays by Michael.

1031
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:34,320
Speaker 5: Yes, yikes.

1032
00:56:34,719 --> 00:56:37,239
Speaker 4: He just you know, he needed one of those really

1033
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:42,320
Speaker 4: really intensive like parent child therapy sessions where like, you know,

1034
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 4: a teenage boy is like forced to sit on his

1035
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:46,960
Speaker 4: mom's lap and make eye contact with her for like

1036
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 4: two hours.

1037
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:49,960
Speaker 1: Well you know, the downside is that they do have

1038
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 1: psychotherapy by then. But if he had gone to it

1039
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,279
Speaker 1: at this point, he would have just been given a

1040
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 1: shipload of cocaine by Freud, Like, which is okay, this

1041
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,560
Speaker 1: guy's a finance bro that is not gonna make shit better.

1042
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:05,120
Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, he needs he should have fast

1043
00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 4: forward to the Kenmine Kenmine time right right.

1044
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:10,680
Speaker 1: That would have fixed him. Our ketamine billionaires are in

1045
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 1: such good health.

1046
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:15,560
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, wait, whoa do you think do you think

1047
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 5: that Alfie was on coke?

1048
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it was. He probably took it at

1049
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: some point just because it was in a lot of medications,

1050
00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:24,560
Speaker 1: like a lot of patent medications. There's a bunch of

1051
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: different shit you would be given for, like a flu

1052
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 1: that might have had some coke or some heroin in it.

1053
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:32,320
Speaker 4: Right, So maybe that is a parallel again between him

1054
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 4: and Elon there. They could be both medicated rob it.

1055
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: Could be both medicaid. No way to know. I Alfred

1056
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 1: is very insecure because of his position, and he takes

1057
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 1: this insecurity out on his workers, by which I mean

1058
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:48,560
Speaker 1: Krupp workers. He despised socialism and he found himself violently

1059
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 1: opposed to anything that smelled slightly of democracy, by which

1060
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 1: I mean unions. Alfred talked a lot about wanting to

1061
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: make unions obsolete. He's basical. He's one of these guys

1062
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: who's like, well, I'm just going to treat employees so well,

1063
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: they'll become members of the petite bourgeoisie. I'm going to

1064
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,080
Speaker 1: give them stock in the company. Then why would they

1065
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 1: want to be unions. They'll be shareholders, right, and they'll

1066
00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:11,960
Speaker 1: be able to buy their own homes. And what he's

1067
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: suggesting here, this is what happens in the US post

1068
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 1: war to create the most prosperous society in history. So

1069
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: like within the capitalists new US, this is an idea

1070
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:24,440
Speaker 1: that does work. It's going to work in the US

1071
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 1: not long after this. But Hugenberg is just bullshitting. He

1072
00:58:27,720 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: has no interest in doing any of this. As Leopold notes, quote,

1073
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 1: working and living conditions did not change much during Hugenberg's tenure.

1074
00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 1: He ultimately did find himself forced to work with what

1075
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:42,840
Speaker 1: he called yellow unions, which are trade unions that aren't

1076
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:45,640
Speaker 1: allowed to strike. Right, So he'll work with these guys

1077
00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 1: because they don't actually have any teeth. But as a rule,

1078
00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:51,480
Speaker 1: he found even that kind of union disgusting, and he

1079
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 1: starts pushing internal propaganda within Krupp that depicted management and employees,

1080
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 1: in Leopold's words, quote, not antithetical classes, but common producers

1081
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: of shared wealth. You know, you and Krupp, the plutocrat

1082
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,320
Speaker 1: who owns all of this money. By pushing everyone towards

1083
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: World War one, you're really the same, you know. That's like,

1084
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 1: that's the propaganda. He's not good at propaganda at this stage, now,

1085
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 1: got it. Yeah, And again, the wealth's not actually being shared.

1086
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 1: And this is something Alfred and his fellow industrialists would

1087
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 1: acknowledge cheerfully. They don't think you should share wealth. They

1088
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:31,640
Speaker 1: are social Darwinists. They believe the poor and working class

1089
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: can only be trusted with a certain amount of money,

1090
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 1: and if they have any more than that, they'll fritter

1091
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 1: it away on harmful nonsense because they're just not smart

1092
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: enough to reinvest it into the German arms industry, right,

1093
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 1: which is obviously what a smart man does with his money.

1094
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:50,160
Speaker 1: By nineteen twelve, Hugenberg was one of the most prominent

1095
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:52,919
Speaker 1: men in the entire Reich. He was awarded the Red

1096
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 1: Order of the Eagle by the Kaiser. Now, this is

1097
00:59:56,280 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 1: one of dozens of made up awards that the Kaiser

1098
00:59:58,920 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 1: would give different German over the years in order to

1099
01:00:01,720 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 1: like because you know, you need to have a bunch

1100
01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:05,960
Speaker 1: of fake awards to hand each other. So everybody can

1101
01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:09,480
Speaker 1: wear a uniform that looks fancy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and

1102
01:00:09,560 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 1: it's worth it.

1103
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 4: The Nexium sash, it's the sash, Yes of Germany at

1104
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:15,720
Speaker 4: the stack yes, and.

1105
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 1: Alfred's Red Order medal is third class with a bow.

1106
01:00:19,280 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 1: I don't know what that.

1107
01:00:20,280 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 5: Means, Leopold, that sounds dumb.

1108
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. At the ceremonies, the Chairman of the Board delivered

1109
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:30,080
Speaker 1: a masterful speech criticizing the attempt to use universal male

1110
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: suffrage as a means of imposing class rule and the Reich.

1111
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:37,160
Speaker 1: He insisted that neither voting nor legislation would advance the workers,

1112
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 1: but only a very much richer, very much greater, and

1113
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 1: very much more powerful Germany would be continue to ensure

1114
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:47,520
Speaker 1: continued benefits for the industrial proletariat. And so in the

1115
01:00:47,560 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 1: speech he's saying, the only thing that can make the

1116
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:54,560
Speaker 1: poor the working class more comfortable is if we steal

1117
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: everything from the rest of the world. That's your only hope. Guys,

1118
01:00:59,160 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 1: dam stuff. Speaking of stealing everything from the rest of

1119
01:01:02,360 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: the world, Sophie, can we should we show them our sponsors.

1120
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 2: I don't think we're stealing things from the rest of

1121
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:09,680
Speaker 2: the world.

1122
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:13,560
Speaker 1: You never know, I steal shit sometimes, Sophie.

1123
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:16,200
Speaker 2: Like Cable allegedly, allegedly.

1124
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:27,080
Speaker 1: Allegedly allegedly were we sure as hell are yes? So, now,

1125
01:01:27,160 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: as I said, during this whole period, one things that's

1126
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 1: going on is this cycle where crupples send their arms

1127
01:01:32,040 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 1: merchants abroad and say, hey, your neighbor just bought all

1128
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: these great cannons or you know, this machine gun and

1129
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:39,280
Speaker 1: they're thinking of using it, so why don't you get

1130
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 1: some more guns? And one of the things this cycle

1131
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:44,320
Speaker 1: of upgrades does. It's great for crup's bottom line and

1132
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:47,400
Speaker 1: other weapons manufacturers. They're all taking part in this. This

1133
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:49,720
Speaker 1: is not just crupt Germany. It's not just responsible for

1134
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 1: the preconditions of World War One, obviously, But one thing

1135
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:56,080
Speaker 1: that this cycle that these arms manufacturers all responsible for

1136
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 1: means is that every European leader is constantly thinking, Okay,

1137
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,440
Speaker 1: right now, we've got better artillery in French, but their

1138
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: machine guns are a little better, and in two years

1139
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 1: they're going to have new artillery, so maybe we need

1140
01:02:07,200 --> 01:02:08,480
Speaker 1: to go to war now if we're gonna have a

1141
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 1: chance of beating them, right, Like, everyone's always thinking.

1142
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 5: How like manufactured escalation?

1143
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 1: Legal like this because these people own the government, run

1144
01:02:18,320 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 1: the government to a big extent.

1145
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's fucked up.

1146
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:28,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great. So Hugenberg profits from this process, and

1147
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: he may have been more directly involved than even just

1148
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:35,560
Speaker 1: like running the finances and benefiting it, because he winds

1149
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:39,400
Speaker 1: up involved in a huge scandal right in late nineteen

1150
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:43,720
Speaker 1: twelve to early nineteen thirteen. He's implicated significantly in what's

1151
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: called the corn Volzer affair. Now I'm going to quote

1152
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:50,000
Speaker 1: from an article by Lothar Burchart from the nineteen eighty

1153
01:02:50,000 --> 01:02:53,440
Speaker 1: eight German Yearbook on Business History to describe the Cornsvolner affair.

1154
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:57,200
Speaker 1: A Krup employee was found guilty of bribing army and

1155
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:00,200
Speaker 1: Navy officers. This proved not only to the German but

1156
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:02,280
Speaker 1: also to the foreign skeptics that they were right to

1157
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 1: believe that the company would stop at nothing in pursuit

1158
01:03:04,600 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 1: of its interests. In nineteen oh five, George Bernard Shaw

1159
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,400
Speaker 1: had already, in his play Missed Major Barbara, not been

1160
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:13,960
Speaker 1: sparing with his insinuations. In nineteen thirteen, even the serious

1161
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 1: American journal The Iron Age wrote, following the facts revealed

1162
01:03:17,360 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 1: during the cornwallser affair, that Krupp was obviously recently prepared

1163
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,080
Speaker 1: to go to any links to agitate a war, even

1164
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:26,720
Speaker 1: before the First World War had really started. HG. Wells

1165
01:03:26,760 --> 01:03:29,160
Speaker 1: had already decided who was the real culprit in the

1166
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: center of this disaster, which had finally become a world catastrophe.

1167
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 1: Is Kruppism the dirty, violent trade with the tools of death.

1168
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:39,360
Speaker 1: It was shortly afterwards that the often repeated but never

1169
01:03:39,480 --> 01:03:43,160
Speaker 1: conclusively proved allegation arose that the then company boss, Gustav

1170
01:03:43,280 --> 01:03:47,520
Speaker 1: Kropp Vi Boland Unhalbach had been informed by the Kaiser

1171
01:03:47,720 --> 01:03:51,120
Speaker 1: months in advance of the imminent war, and Alfred is

1172
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:55,840
Speaker 1: directly implicated in this bribery of army and naval officers

1173
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 1: as like, because he's the manager of this guy, and

1174
01:03:59,320 --> 01:04:01,760
Speaker 1: it's too much to say that we don't know. Again,

1175
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 1: we don't really know if the Kaiser was literally warned

1176
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 1: months in advance of the imminent war, because I don't

1177
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: actually think it was planned that way. But that's the

1178
01:04:08,600 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 1: rumor going around, right, And it's definitely true that Huggenberg

1179
01:04:14,240 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 1: is aware of how tensions are ratcheting up and is

1180
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: using that as a way he is taking advantage of

1181
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 1: this to make money in a way that makes World

1182
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:26,160
Speaker 1: War one more likely. Right, he is implied he has

1183
01:04:26,360 --> 01:04:28,920
Speaker 1: some of the war guilt, right, because of the position

1184
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 1: that he has. Again, there's plenty of war guilt to

1185
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 1: go around. The French aren't blameless, the British aren't even blameless,

1186
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 1: and fucking the Russian sure is shit aren't blameless. But

1187
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:40,840
Speaker 1: he's one of the He's one of a small number

1188
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 1: of men who is directly implicated and creating the conditions

1189
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 1: of World War One, Right, now, yeah, given his agent wealth,

1190
01:04:49,720 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 1: there's no chance Hugenberg or too many of the people

1191
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:54,640
Speaker 1: he cared about, because he doesn't care about a lot

1192
01:04:54,680 --> 01:04:56,439
Speaker 1: of people, we're going to have to fight and die

1193
01:04:56,600 --> 01:04:59,000
Speaker 1: in this war. In fact, he was very pro the

1194
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 1: idea of having a World War one. He's gotten back

1195
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:03,920
Speaker 1: into the Pan Germanic League at this point, and the

1196
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:07,040
Speaker 1: league is doing everything they can do to encourage Germany

1197
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 1: to go to war with its neighbors. If you're you know,

1198
01:05:10,680 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 1: if you're old enough to remember the biggest cheerleaders for

1199
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:16,720
Speaker 1: the war in Iraq, that's that's what these guys are doing, right.

1200
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:19,120
Speaker 1: They're coming up with justifications for like, why we have

1201
01:05:19,240 --> 01:05:23,920
Speaker 1: to go liberate eastern France. Right, they'll welcome us as

1202
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 1: liberators Belgian Is naturally.

1203
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, did you just imply that because Alfie like had

1204
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 4: no friends and no loved ones and no family members

1205
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 4: and thus no one to lose in a war, He's

1206
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:38,560
Speaker 4: just like, yeah, fucking go off.

1207
01:05:38,720 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 1: He's got nothing to gain from a war. Yeah, so

1208
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:45,080
Speaker 1: nothing to lose, Yeah, well, nothing to lose. You're right,

1209
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 1: Sorry I fucked up?

1210
01:05:45,960 --> 01:05:50,640
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yeah, and sounds like the right he is. Yeah,

1211
01:05:50,960 --> 01:05:52,800
Speaker 5: Ultimately he's doing life wrong.

1212
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 1: But he's doing life very wrong. Yeah, and to make

1213
01:05:56,640 --> 01:05:59,480
Speaker 1: things worse, you know, he's cajoling European powers to arm

1214
01:05:59,560 --> 01:06:02,480
Speaker 1: each other, both in his job as an arms dealer

1215
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 1: and through this social club that he's helping to run.

1216
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:08,760
Speaker 1: And then in nineteen twelve something terrible happens is the

1217
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:12,240
Speaker 1: same year of the cornballser affair. The Social Democrats win

1218
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 1: big in that year's German elections, and Germany is a

1219
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:20,080
Speaker 1: parliament parliamentary monarchy, right, they have a parliament. The Kaisers

1220
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 1: I'm described as an absolute ruler and he has he

1221
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:27,680
Speaker 1: can overrule most things, right, but there is a parliament

1222
01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 1: and they don't have zero power. And the Social Democrats

1223
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:33,680
Speaker 1: win big that year, which scares the shit out of

1224
01:06:33,720 --> 01:06:37,800
Speaker 1: Alfred and people like him. Right, So he starts talking

1225
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 1: to other rich reactionary nationalists and he tries to sell

1226
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:43,680
Speaker 1: them on an idea he's had, which is he wants

1227
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:47,439
Speaker 1: to create a cartel of the producing classes. In other words,

1228
01:06:47,840 --> 01:06:49,960
Speaker 1: he wants to get all of the rich business owners

1229
01:06:50,000 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 1: together and form a union of rich guys to collectively

1230
01:06:55,320 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 1: bargain in their own interests. Right, he sees what union

1231
01:06:58,760 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 1: is now, Yeah, oh yeah, gold union, Yes, exactly. And

1232
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 1: this is a thing He's not alone in thinking this.

1233
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:06,959
Speaker 1: A lot of magnates in the Ruh and the Rure

1234
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 1: is Germany's industrial heartland. It's where the guns get made, right,

1235
01:07:11,160 --> 01:07:12,919
Speaker 1: And a lot of the guys who run and own

1236
01:07:13,000 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 1: the minds and the companies making raw materials and the

1237
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:18,960
Speaker 1: companies turning those raw materials into weapons and other stuff,

1238
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:21,240
Speaker 1: they're all thinking along the same lines. And so in

1239
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 1: nineteen thirteen he is hired to chair the board of

1240
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 1: directors for an organization that pools money from mine and

1241
01:07:28,080 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 1: factory owners in the area for profit. And part of

1242
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:33,080
Speaker 1: the goal here, he's not just like investing it, he

1243
01:07:33,280 --> 01:07:36,080
Speaker 1: is spending it to benefit them. Part of the idea

1244
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 1: is you will spend a chunk of our money we

1245
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:41,280
Speaker 1: all give like one percent or whatever, right, and that

1246
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 1: money accumulates and you spend it to influence the culture,

1247
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:49,400
Speaker 1: right to put out news and stuff in propaganda that's

1248
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 1: positive for us. Hugenberg is going to be running that project,

1249
01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:58,320
Speaker 1: right because these guys, these industrial magnates, have the billionaires

1250
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:00,360
Speaker 1: of their day, have come to the conclusion that if

1251
01:08:00,400 --> 01:08:03,360
Speaker 1: we can just change the news stories poor people read,

1252
01:08:03,800 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 1: poor people will stop trying to get our money.

1253
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:09,400
Speaker 5: You know, like, yeah, wow, Okay. So when you say

1254
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:11,720
Speaker 5: that he wasn't good at propaganda yet.

1255
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:14,920
Speaker 1: Yet, well, also this is a very musk thing, right,

1256
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:17,720
Speaker 1: Like we're coming to the key buys Twitter part. Right.

1257
01:08:19,360 --> 01:08:22,040
Speaker 1: So again, Hugenberg is not a skilled propagandist in terms off,

1258
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:24,760
Speaker 1: he doesn't make propaganda, nor does he like write it.

1259
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 1: He's not drawing it or anything like that. But he

1260
01:08:27,080 --> 01:08:30,280
Speaker 1: sees the need for propaganda and he's good at hiring

1261
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 1: people who are good at stuff. So in nineteen fourteen

1262
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 1: he uses a bunch of this pooled corporate money to

1263
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 1: form a holding company called Ousland GmbH. A month later,

1264
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:46,080
Speaker 1: that company forms a subsidiary named Ousland Azigen. Leopold explains

1265
01:08:46,120 --> 01:08:48,519
Speaker 1: what happened next, which will sound very familiar to those

1266
01:08:48,560 --> 01:08:51,559
Speaker 1: of you who know anything about the Daily Wire. Ouceland

1267
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:55,720
Speaker 1: Azigen was established to study foreign publications and to coordinate

1268
01:08:55,800 --> 01:08:59,040
Speaker 1: the advertising of heavy industrial firms interested in exports. So

1269
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 1: he's sending out people to study foreign media propaganda and

1270
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 1: bring back advice so that they can create news outlets

1271
01:09:08,720 --> 01:09:14,120
Speaker 1: that will represent the interests of the rich. Right, that's

1272
01:09:14,200 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 1: what he's doing. Now, this is initially just an advertising thing, right,

1273
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 1: Like the idea is and we'll make that way, will

1274
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:24,599
Speaker 1: make better ad propaganda. But the study of foreign ads

1275
01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 1: expands to a general study of foreign propaganda, and this

1276
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:30,080
Speaker 1: kind of conclusion starts to develop that, like, you know what, ads,

1277
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:34,360
Speaker 1: that's not the best way to propagandize people. Journalism is

1278
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 1: the best way to propagandize people. News articles are the

1279
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 1: best way to propagandize people.

1280
01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:41,800
Speaker 5: Right, spon con that doesn't look like spon con.

1281
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:44,920
Speaker 1: Yes, And so they're working This is what they start

1282
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:48,280
Speaker 1: working on when in August of nineteen fourteen, the shooting

1283
01:09:48,400 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 1: starts on the Western Front, and we will talk about

1284
01:09:51,320 --> 01:09:55,200
Speaker 1: that what happens later and how Alfred Hugenberg finally gets

1285
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 1: in bed with zen Nazis in Part two. How are

1286
01:09:58,280 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 1: you feeling, Amanda.

1287
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:06,240
Speaker 5: I feel amazing. I feel really glad that I it's

1288
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:06,960
Speaker 5: a normal way to.

1289
01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:11,799
Speaker 1: Feel when you talk about Alfred Hugenberg. Yes, well, I'm

1290
01:10:11,840 --> 01:10:12,919
Speaker 1: America's sweetheart.

1291
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:17,599
Speaker 5: Yeah exactly. I well kind of because I I feel

1292
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:21,720
Speaker 5: whenever I hear stories like this, I feel like, oh wow,

1293
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:24,320
Speaker 5: I'm not the worst person in history.

1294
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:28,840
Speaker 1: No, no, no, you're You're a better person than Alfred Hugenberg.

1295
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:33,920
Speaker 1: A low bar Russell Brand might be a better person

1296
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:38,720
Speaker 1: than Alfred Hugenberg and he just got some pretty serious cris.

1297
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:43,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, that's a fun game. But you know who's

1298
01:10:43,320 --> 01:10:44,240
Speaker 5: a worst person.

1299
01:10:45,200 --> 01:10:49,240
Speaker 1: I'll say this, very few historians blame Russ Russell Brand

1300
01:10:49,320 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 1: for the outbreak of World War One. Almost never, you know,

1301
01:10:52,439 --> 01:10:57,800
Speaker 1: almost almost No. Honestly, would be super impressive if he'd

1302
01:10:57,840 --> 01:10:59,000
Speaker 1: managed that somehow.

1303
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,600
Speaker 4: I would love to talk to a historian who's like

1304
01:11:03,479 --> 01:11:06,920
Speaker 4: open to discussing a working theory that Russell Brand has something.

1305
01:11:06,680 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 1: To do with, just like any of a photo of

1306
01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:12,120
Speaker 1: him in the background in Sarah Jevo as the Archduke

1307
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:12,880
Speaker 1: drives past.

1308
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:18,280
Speaker 4: Oh my god, yeah, Russell he does have sort of

1309
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:22,280
Speaker 4: a time travelers styling to him.

1310
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 5: It is one of these could have been any era

1311
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:25,880
Speaker 5: at all.

1312
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:28,719
Speaker 1: There's some guys like Matt Damon. You put Matt Damon

1313
01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:30,760
Speaker 1: in like a historical movie from one hundred and twenty

1314
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 1: years ago. I'm sorry, Matt Damon has as people have said,

1315
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 1: Matt Damon has a face that knows what a smartphone is, right,

1316
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:39,559
Speaker 1: like you just can't get so true. But yeah, Russell Brand,

1317
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:41,040
Speaker 1: if I saw him in a picture of from like

1318
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 1: eighteen forty eight, I'd be.

1319
01:11:42,439 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 2: Like, no, that's good bad.

1320
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,599
Speaker 5: Yeah, you might belong there. Yeah, oh my god, that's

1321
01:11:46,680 --> 01:11:47,520
Speaker 5: so funny.

1322
01:11:47,520 --> 01:11:51,040
Speaker 1: With sex crimes there. But he might belong there for sure.

1323
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:53,360
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean he belongs there as much

1324
01:11:53,439 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 4: as anywhere, which right nowhere. But do you ever see

1325
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:01,640
Speaker 4: people I r L in twenty twenty five You're like,

1326
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:04,920
Speaker 4: whoa you do you have a face that looks like

1327
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:10,639
Speaker 4: an old cepia toned like faded print from the late

1328
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:11,759
Speaker 4: nineteenth century?

1329
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:13,040
Speaker 5: Because I do sometimes.

1330
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:14,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I get that a lot.

1331
01:12:14,800 --> 01:12:19,000
Speaker 5: Actually yourself, you're like every time A look in the mirror.

1332
01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:23,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well, Amanda, you got any pluggables before

1333
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:24,599
Speaker 1: we roll out a part one?

1334
01:12:25,360 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 3: Yes.

1335
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:29,759
Speaker 4: If if people like hearing about cults in a cheeky

1336
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:33,160
Speaker 4: tone or really just cult like organizations from the modern

1337
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:36,920
Speaker 4: day site geist and want to participate in determining whether

1338
01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 4: or not they are real cults, they can listen to

1339
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:42,439
Speaker 4: my podcast sounds like a cult about the modern day

1340
01:12:42,479 --> 01:12:45,439
Speaker 4: cults we all follow, from Disney Adults to Elon Musk.

1341
01:12:45,880 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1342
01:12:46,120 --> 01:12:48,560
Speaker 5: So yeah, and we have an episode coming out with

1343
01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:52,200
Speaker 5: you about Mark Zuckerberg. So that's going to be exciting. Yeah,

1344
01:12:52,280 --> 01:12:55,800
Speaker 5: and then Cultish. My book Cultish is coming out in

1345
01:12:55,880 --> 01:12:56,920
Speaker 5: paperback in June.

1346
01:12:57,920 --> 01:13:01,640
Speaker 1: Excellent well, check out Coldish, check out everything Amanda is

1347
01:13:01,720 --> 01:13:06,080
Speaker 1: involved with, and check out prtoon coming in like a day.

1348
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:12,120
Speaker 3: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1349
01:13:12,520 --> 01:13:15,760
Speaker 3: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website Coolzonemedia

1350
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 3: dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1351
01:13:19,280 --> 01:13:20,800
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever.

1352
01:13:20,640 --> 01:13:21,600
Speaker 5: You get your podcasts.

1353
01:13:22,000 --> 01:13:25,360
Speaker 3: Behind the Bastards is now available on YouTube, new episodes

1354
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 3: every Wednesday and Friday.

1355
01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:31,240
Speaker 4: Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com slash at Behind

1356
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:31,880
Speaker 4: the Bastards