1 00:00:04,120 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome to the Bob Left Sets podcast. My 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: guest this week is Danny Goldberg, who's had a career 3 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: as a record executive, as a manager, as a writer, 4 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 1: as a producer. Good to have you here, Danny, So 5 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 1: nice to be here, Bob. Okay, you were the billboard 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: correspondent for Woodstock. How did that come together? I got 7 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: my first job after dropping out of college. Uh, with 8 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 1: Billboard because okay, well let's go that that triggers. Okay, 9 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 1: so you grow up where? Grew up in Hastings on Hudson, 10 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: which is Westchester County, right, and I went to a 11 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: high school called Fieldston, which is actually in the Riverdale 12 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 1: section of the Bronx Private School. Yeah, and your father 13 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: is doing what for a living? Here? Was a textile 14 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: executive and my mother was a housewife. She didn't make money, 15 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: but she was a brilliant you know, she's a poet. 16 00:00:57,440 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: She published a book of poetry and we always looked 17 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: her is the smartest one. But but my dad was 18 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: took the train to the city every day and came 19 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: back and as did you. If you're going to Fieldston, 20 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: well to Fieldston from Hastings there was a math teacher, 21 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: Mr Jason, who would drive me there and then it 22 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: was a bus back. There was there was not really 23 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: a train. How long was the bus ride that? Forty minutes? Right? 24 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 1: Relatively long for school? Yeah? And you have any siblings. 25 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: I have a younger brother and a younger sister. Yeah, 26 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: so you're the oldest. All the hopes and dreams are 27 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: in you, correct. And so what are your brother and 28 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: sister up to today? My brother works for a company 29 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: that sells computer systems to companies. I don't know exactly 30 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,479 Speaker 1: what he does, but it's in that ballpark. And he's 31 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: got a son named Ben and and two grand daughters. Uh. 32 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 1: And my sister is an academic. She is a professor 33 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: at the Paul University in Indiana of conflict resolution. And 34 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: she's a PhD. So we do have a doctor in 35 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: the family. Okay. And are your parents political, because I 36 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: know you're very political. My parents were political. I got 37 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: my politics from my parents. They were there. They they're 38 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 1: in heaven now, but they're not, you know, I don't 39 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 1: get to talk to them in the flesh anymore. But 40 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: there they were, you know, for the civil rights movement. 41 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,119 Speaker 1: They had worked together before I was born. On the 42 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 1: thing was before they were married, but when they were 43 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:25,239 Speaker 1: gonna get married. On the Henry Wallace campaign in so 44 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: so he was he for those who don't know he was, 45 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: he had been Roosevelt's Vice president and Secretary of Agriculture, 46 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 1: and he was kind of against the Cold War and 47 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: was to the left of Harry Truman and and ultimately 48 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: ran on an extremely unsuccessful third party ticket in forty 49 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: eight because he felt Truman had kind of sold out 50 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: some of the New deals. So that's what I grew 51 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,399 Speaker 1: up with was they weren't communists, but they they they 52 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: were They hated John McCarthy, and they were they were lefties, liberals, liberals. 53 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 1: Let's jump all the way to the future as we 54 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: sit here right now with what happened in the Bronx 55 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 1: with Crowley being uh beaten in the primary by a 56 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 1: twenty eight year old woman. Do you believe the Democrats 57 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: should run to the center, run to the left. Well, 58 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: I think that the short answer, the one word answer, 59 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: would be to the left. But I do think these 60 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: words left and center are kind of um used differently 61 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: by different people. But to me, the key to the 62 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: Democrats is to turn out the vote and to get 63 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: everybody who voted for the third party candidates uh to 64 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: vote for Democrats this time. To get the people who 65 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: didn't vote to vote for Democrats this time, I think 66 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,600 Speaker 1: that's the low hanging fruit. I think changing the mind 67 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: of a Trump voter is really really hard. And I 68 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: think getting somebody who voted for the Libertarian or Jill 69 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: Steiner who didn't think there was any difference, or those 70 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: ridiculous arguments, I think getting those people to show up 71 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: and vote for the Democrats is is an easier lift 72 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: of the two. Well, that's what Frank Rich says. Frank 73 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: Rich said, you know, although it's interesting to study why 74 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: these people voted for Trump, that you're not going to 75 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: convince him. It's about getting out the vote. Yeah, I 76 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 1: think that's true. I think historically, when there's a high turnout, 77 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: Democrats win, and when there's a low turnout, they lose. 78 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: And I think clearly we know the math. I mean, 79 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,520 Speaker 1: there's not a majority support for Trump, but but if 80 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: if a majority the people who show up to vote 81 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 1: support him, then he controls everything. Do you have any 82 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: fear that we could have candidates that are too far 83 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: to the left and we lose the so called center. 84 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: I'm much more scared of people who demoralize women, young 85 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: people in racial minorities, because that's what happened last time, 86 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: and that's what's happened frequently with the Democrats. I haven't 87 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: I guess, if you wanted to say McGovern was too 88 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: far to the left, that was so long ago, and 89 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 1: it was such a unique set of circumstances, you know, 90 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: and you know, almost forty more than forty more than 91 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: forty years ago. But certainly in terms of in the 92 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: last several decades, there's no examples of Democrats who are 93 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: too far to the left. There's a lot of examples 94 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 1: of Democrats who didn't get the turnout, who didn't motivate 95 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 1: young people. These kids who showed up on the Gun March, 96 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: the women who showed up on the William Million Women March, 97 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: the the African Americans who showed up for Barack Obama, 98 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: the Latinos who need to know that there's a compelling 99 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: difference between Democrats and Republicans. Getting them to show up 100 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: is to me the big task. I haven't seen examples 101 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 1: of Democrats who lost because they were too far to 102 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: the left. We have a lot of examples of Democrats 103 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: who couldn't get turned out. Well, it's interesting in the 104 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,280 Speaker 1: last few days, uh, people are accusing of The New 105 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: York Times of trying to bring people to the center, 106 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:42,680 Speaker 1: and then there are people to the left like Matt 107 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 1: Taiebi say no, we really have to run on the issues. 108 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of them publicized by Bernie Sanders, 109 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 1: having to do with school debt and healthcare and other opportunities. 110 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: And as I say, this is how we lost, if 111 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: I want to say I am a Democrat, that is 112 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: how we lost the last time around. Um, I guess 113 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: when Hillary Clinton said her favorite book was the Bible, 114 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 1: I said, it just blew all credibility. Well, I think 115 00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: when she said I'm going to ask Henry Kissingerer for advice, 116 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: and when she said no, I won't tell you what 117 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: I said to Goldman Sachs that it was it was 118 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,919 Speaker 1: not exciting. You know, Look, I voted for Hillary Clinton. 119 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: I contributed money to Hillary Clinton, and I think she 120 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: would have been a terrific president. I was for burning 121 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: in the primaries because I agreed with him on the issues. 122 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: But I think the reality is that there's been too 123 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: many Democratic leaders that haven't delivered for a lot of people, 124 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 1: and and some of those people, uh didn't vote last time, 125 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: and some of them voted for third parties. I think 126 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: five percent of the vote went to the libertarian or 127 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: to Jill Stein. I think all those people, I don't 128 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: think any of those people would have voted for Trump. 129 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: Some of them would have voted for for Hillary. Maybe 130 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:53,919 Speaker 1: some of them you just could never get. There's a 131 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,680 Speaker 1: certain core of nihilist lefties that will never vote for 132 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:00,479 Speaker 1: a Democrat. But it's not five percent, that's for sure, 133 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 1: And uh, you know that was you know, and then 134 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: you look at the young people. The percentage of progressive 135 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 1: views of people under thirty or fifteen twenty points higher 136 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,239 Speaker 1: than the rest of theation. And uh, every every election 137 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: is more of those people. And you've got to motivate 138 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: them and show them there's a real difference and that 139 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: it's worth it and taking it for granted because you 140 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: just kind of quote something that you know lb J 141 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: did fifty years ago is not going to do it. 142 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: You've got to. So I on that particular argument, I'm 143 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: I'm more on the mat Ti e. B side, not 144 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: only because I happen to believe in those issues, because 145 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: I don't believe the other thing works. That what the 146 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: what you're describing the not let's not go too far 147 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: to the left platform is what lost for the Democrats, 148 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: not only Hillary Clinton, but but successive mid terms and governorships. 149 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: And you know, the Democratic Party is the weakest in 150 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: terms of elective office that it's been in my lifetime 151 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,679 Speaker 1: because they keep taking the advice of these so called 152 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: experts who claim to know what the center thinks, except 153 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: they keep losing. If they would win, I would salute, 154 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: you know, but they lost, so obviously their expertise is 155 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: not what they claim it was. Okay, you're speaking my 156 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: language before we go back to the beginning here, is 157 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: there a place for music in this political sphere? And 158 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: can music move the needle um? You know, it's so 159 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: hard to know how music affects people relative to to politics. 160 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: The historical role of music has mostly been as a 161 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:39,960 Speaker 1: source of encouragement for people. When when you know, John 162 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: by Ezra Pete Seeger would go and sing for the 163 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: civil rights workers, or phil Oaks would sing at peace rallies, 164 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: or Jackson Brown and Bonnie Rate would would sing, you know, 165 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: for anti nuclear rallies and things like that. It's not 166 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: been to convert people. It's mostly been to kind of 167 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: inspire and motivate the troops and to raise money. Um, 168 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: you never know what art can do. You know, I 169 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: wouldn't look at music as a separate category. I would 170 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 1: just think creativity in general. I mean, certainly, Uncle Tom's 171 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: Cabin is believed to have been a big catalyst in 172 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: getting white people who had political power to finally be 173 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,760 Speaker 1: against slavery. So that's the famous example of a work 174 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: of art actually moving the needle. But I think in 175 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: terms of the general atmosphere of the culture, to the 176 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: extent that art is makes certain things cool. Uh, you 177 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: know it helps. I don't think it's it's it's it's 178 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 1: that big deal. I think the underlying issues matter more 179 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: and and the Again, the main role of artist is 180 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: to support politicians. As much as I love Harry Bellafante, 181 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: he supported Martin Luther King, he wasn't Martin Luther King, 182 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: and he would be the first to say that. Okay, 183 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 1: So going back to Fieldstom, you were in high school 184 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: in a very tumultuous era. Were you involved in politics them? 185 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: I was, to the extent I could be. Um, you know, 186 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: bunch of us in in um in seventh grade. One 187 00:10:03,360 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: of my my best friend in high school was somebody 188 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,320 Speaker 1: named Joel Goodman, who was still a friend of mine. 189 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: He lives in Santa Monica, not far from where we 190 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: were doing this podcast, and he um. His uncle was 191 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 1: Paul Goodman, who's a famous radical writer of the fifties, 192 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: great hero of both the gay rights movement and a 193 00:10:22,720 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: lot of left wing movements. So he was way more 194 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: tuned in to sort of left the ideas than I was. 195 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: But my parents, like I was telling you earlier, supported 196 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 1: these things. And he had the idea that we should 197 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 1: protest air A drills because they represented preparation for war 198 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: and kind of enabling a war psychology. And so in 199 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: seventh grade, six of us held signs up mindset, don't 200 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 1: prepare for war prevented and refused to participate in an 201 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: air A drill and we got suspended for a day. 202 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,079 Speaker 1: But then the next year they stopped having air A drills. 203 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: So now this was a private school, but it gave 204 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: me an unrealistic sense of what protests could do, which 205 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: I've never completely lost. Okay, so you get kicked out 206 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: of school for a day for yours. Oh, they were 207 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 1: all for it now my parents supported that. My parents 208 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: didn't like it when I started smoking dope and taking 209 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: acid that and and dropped out of college. That freaked 210 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: them out. But the political activity they were completely supportive of. 211 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: And a bunch of us got a bus in sixty 212 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: five to go to a march on Washington against the 213 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: war fields and bus and uh. And one of my 214 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 1: classmates in in in Um the last three years of 215 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: high school was gil Scott heron Um. You know, he 216 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: he got a scholarship there. He had his family had 217 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: moved up from somewhere in the South. I think it's Virginia, 218 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: but it might be Tennessee. I it's But he was 219 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: immediately the most popular kid in school because he was 220 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: that cool. He was the lone African American. There were 221 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 1: a few other African Americans, not a lot, but I 222 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: think we had out of a class of a hundred, 223 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: I think there were seven or eight. But he was 224 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: just so charismatic. He was the center of the basketball team. 225 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 1: He was the biggest, he was the main he was 226 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: the wide end on the football team. He was the 227 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: most talented musically. He had the best sense of humor, 228 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: and he was an incredible writer. The first day in 229 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: English class, we've been given this assignment about what did 230 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: you do over the summer? And mine was the I 231 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 1: went to the beach. I rode my bike and brought 232 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: a copy of Mad magazine, and I had a ice 233 00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,439 Speaker 1: cream Sunday and I rode back. And we're all having 234 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: these like a sort of four line see Dick run 235 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,440 Speaker 1: type descriptions, and the okay, Gil yours and he starts 236 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: reading the wind Blew through marriage Hair. She hadn't slept 237 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: all night, but she'd had enough coffee that she was, 238 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 1: you know, it was literature. And we all looked around, like, 239 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: who is this guy? You know? And um, so he 240 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:49,760 Speaker 1: was you know, he wasn't um. He didn't come with 241 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,400 Speaker 1: us to the to the march. His mother was pretty 242 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: strict and but but but he he was. He was 243 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 1: a lefty. He was he was a deaf and it lefty. 244 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: How was he your friend in school? He was my friend. 245 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: He mostly hung out with the jocks, but he liked me. 246 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: It's it's counterintuitor, isn't it. But but these were fields 247 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: in shocks. This is a mostly Jewish private school. This 248 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: this was not providing players for the NFL or NBA. 249 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: You know, Um, but he uh, he was. He was 250 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: a good guy, and he was he was. Everybody loved Gil. 251 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: He got along with kind of all the different cliques 252 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: and and and I considered him a friend and he 253 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: and I saw him in subsequent years at different times 254 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: in both of our lives. You know, now, any of 255 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: your contemporaries from Fieldston become notable on the scene. Oh, 256 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: I don't know. I would say he was by far 257 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: the most spectacular public figure from our particular class. Okay, 258 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: So you graduate from Fieldston and you go to college 259 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: where I got into the University of California at Berkeley 260 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: because I was an underachiever, as they used to call us, 261 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: a d D people in those days, do you consider 262 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: yourself to have a d D? In retrospect? I know 263 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: what it was about the story. That's the story I 264 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: tell myself now for being such a mediocre student. Who knows, 265 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: but I um, but but but I was a good 266 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: test taker. And Berkeley was one of the schools that 267 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: only looked at the S A T. S. So the 268 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: guidance people said, don't even those are the only colleges 269 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: you should apply to, because if they look at your grades, 270 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: they're not gonna want you, you know. And I spent 271 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: an entire week going to classes and that was it. 272 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 1: I just was only into drugs at that time, and 273 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: so I dropped out literally after one week. This is 274 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: the fall of no. No, this is this is the 275 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: fall of sixties seven. I graduated from high school in 276 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 1: June sixty seven and go I wind up in Berkeley, 277 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: and okay, sixty seven, Okay, so that is literally just 278 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: at the end of the summer of law. Just missed 279 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: the summer of love. Yeah, so by the time I 280 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: visited Hay to Ashbury, it was it was already kind 281 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 1: of ruined by the inflo of junkies and predators. And 282 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: I mostly stayed in Berkeley, but I did. But I 283 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: saw it right after the Summer of love. The real 284 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: summer of love, I think, having just written a book 285 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: about this, was really sixty six. That was the real 286 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: idealistic period. Sixty seven was the media summer of love. 287 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: Although many people think sixty eight was the summer of love. 288 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: Who weren't around that today was the summer of assassination. 289 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: Sixty eight was certainly that was when the mains just 290 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 1: started to get clued in. But you're in Berkeley, which 291 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: is a hot bit of radicalization, and could you still 292 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: feel that even though Mario Savio was before that, etcetera. Well, 293 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,640 Speaker 1: there was a schism. It wasn't an official schism, but 294 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: there was the fact of schism among people that were 295 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: kind of long haired, people that were generally rebellious baby 296 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: boomer anti war types, between people that were sort of 297 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: into the seeing political radicalism in the anti war movement 298 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: as their number one priority, and people who saw getting 299 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 1: high as their number one priority. And I was in 300 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: the latter group. I was in said head who was 301 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: against the war and proudly against it. I had no 302 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 1: ambiguity about it. But I didn't want to sit in meetings. 303 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: I was never part of STS. I was really mainly 304 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: into getting high. Okay, So were you into getting high 305 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 1: in high school? I was, okay? So why do you 306 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: you just doubled down when you get to Berkeley? Correct? 307 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: Because I didn't have parents to come home to anymore. Okay? 308 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: So you literally stopped going to classes after one week? Correct? 309 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: And but you're living in the dorm. No, at Berkeley, 310 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: you did not have to live in the dorm. So 311 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: Joel Goodman, the Fellow I mentioned you before, also went 312 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: to Berkeley and we shared an apartment. It was actually 313 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: in a town called Albany, California, that's just past the 314 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: border of just slightly north of of Berkeley. So we 315 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: we had an apartment and we're not in a dorm. Well, 316 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: so what? And he continue to go to school. He 317 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: stayed in Berkeley for about another year, and then he 318 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: later became a film editor. You'll see his name on 319 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,400 Speaker 1: the credits of many TV series and the movies and 320 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: so on. He's okay, so you're there. You you stopped 321 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: going to class for uh after week. You know, you 322 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 1: know something is coming the bell that's gonna be wrong. 323 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: Your parents are gonna freak out. So what's going through 324 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 1: your head? You know? I this was not the time. Welcome, Welcome, 325 00:17:12,080 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bob Left Sets podcast. My guest this 326 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: week is Danny Goldberg, who's had a career as a 327 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: record executive, as a manager, as a writer, as a producer. 328 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: Good to have you here, Danny, So nice to be here, Bob. Okay, 329 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:31,400 Speaker 1: you were the billboard correspondent for Woodstock. How did that 330 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:36,920 Speaker 1: come together? I got my first job after dropping out 331 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,960 Speaker 1: of college, uh with Billboard because okay, well let's go 332 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 1: that that triggers. Okay, So you grow up where? Grew 333 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: up in Hastings on Hudson, which is Westchester County, right, 334 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: And I went to a high school called Fieldston, which 335 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: is actually in the Riverdale section of the Bronx Private School. Yeah, 336 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: and your father is doing what for a living? Here 337 00:17:55,520 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: was a textile executive and my mother as a housewife. 338 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: She didn't make money, but she was a brilliant you know, 339 00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: she's a poet. She published a book of poetry and 340 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: we always looked at her as the smartest one. Uh 341 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: but but my dad was took the train to the 342 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: city every day and came back, and as did you. 343 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: If you're going to Fieldston, Well, to Fieldston from Hastings 344 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 1: there was a math teacher, Mr Jason, who would drive 345 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 1: me there and then it was a bus back there 346 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 1: was there was not really a train. How long was 347 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 1: the bus ride that? Forty minutes? Right, relatively long for school. Yeah. 348 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: And you have any siblings. I have a younger brother 349 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: and a younger sister. Yeah. So you're the oldest. All 350 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,239 Speaker 1: the hopes and dreams are in you, correct, And so 351 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: what are your brother and sister up to today. My 352 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:46,080 Speaker 1: brother works for a company that sells computer systems to companies. 353 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,000 Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what he does, but it's in 354 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 1: that ballpark. And he's got a son named Ben and 355 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: and two grand daughters. Uh. And my sister is an academic. 356 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: She is a professor at De Paul University in Indiana 357 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: of conflict resolution and she's a PhD. So we do 358 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 1: have a doctor in the family. Okay. And are your 359 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: parents political, because I know you're very political. My parents 360 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,640 Speaker 1: were political. I got my politics from my parents. They 361 00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,239 Speaker 1: were there. They they're in heaven now, but they're not 362 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: you know, I don't get to talk to them in 363 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: the flesh anymore. But there they were, you know, for 364 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 1: the civil rights movement. They had worked together before I 365 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 1: was born on the thing was before they were married, 366 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: but when they were gonna get married. On the Henry 367 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: Wallace campaign in so so he was he for those 368 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 1: who don't know he was. He had been Roosevelt's vice 369 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: president and Secretary of Agriculture, and he was kind of 370 00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: against the Cold War and was to the left of 371 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 1: Harry Truman and and ultimately ran on an extremely unsuccessful 372 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 1: third party ticket in forty eight because he felt Truman 373 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: had kind of sold out some of the new deals. 374 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 1: So that's what I grew up with was they weren't communists, 375 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,639 Speaker 1: but they they they were They hated John McCarthy, and 376 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: they were they were lefties, liberals, liberals. Let's jump all 377 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 1: the way to the future as we sit here right 378 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: now with what happened in the Bronx with Crowley being 379 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,879 Speaker 1: UH beaten in the primary by a twenty eight year 380 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: old woman, do you believe the Democrats should run to 381 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:21,200 Speaker 1: the center, run to the left. Well, I think that 382 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: the short answer, the one word answer, would be to 383 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 1: the left. But I do think these words left and 384 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: center are kind of um used differently by different people. 385 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: But to me, the key to the Democrats is to 386 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: turn out the vote and to get everybody who voted 387 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: for the third party candidates UH to vote for Democrats 388 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: this time. To get the people who didn't vote to 389 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: vote for Democrats this time. I think that's the low 390 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,200 Speaker 1: hanging fruit. I think changing the mind of a Trump 391 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: voter is really really hard, and I think getting somebody 392 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 1: who voted for the libertarian or Jill Steiner who didn't 393 00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: think there was any difference, or those ridiculous arguments. I 394 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: think getting those people to show up and vote for 395 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: the Democrats is is an easier lift of the two. Well, 396 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: that's what Frank Rich says. Frank Rich said, you know, 397 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: although it's interesting to study why these people voted for Trump, 398 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: that you're not going to convince him it's about getting 399 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: out the vote. Yeah, I think that's true. I think historically, 400 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 1: when there's a high turnout, Democrats win, and when there's 401 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:23,520 Speaker 1: a low turnout, they lose. And I think clearly we 402 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: know the math. I mean, there's not a majority support 403 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: for Trump, but but if if a majority the people 404 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: who show up to vote support him, then he controls everything. 405 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,639 Speaker 1: Do you have any fear that we could have candidates 406 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,119 Speaker 1: that are too far to the left and we lose 407 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,439 Speaker 1: the so called center. I'm much more scared of people 408 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: who demoralize women, young people in racial minorities, because that's 409 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: what happened last time, and that's what's happened frequently with 410 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: the Democrats. I haven't I guess if you wanted to 411 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: say McGovern was too far to the left, that was 412 00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: so long ago, and it was such a unique set 413 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: of circumstances, you know, and uh, you know, almost forty 414 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 1: more than forty more than forty years ago. But certainly 415 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: in terms of in the last several decades, there's no 416 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: examples of Democrats who were too far to the left. 417 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: There's a lot of examples of Democrats who didn't get 418 00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: the turnout, who didn't motivate young people. These kids who 419 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 1: showed up on the Gun March, the women who showed 420 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: up on the William Million Women March, the the African 421 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: Americans who showed up for Barack Obama, the Latinos who 422 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,159 Speaker 1: need to know that there's a compelling difference between Democrats 423 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: and Republicans. Getting them to show up is to me 424 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: the big task. I haven't seen examples of Democrats who 425 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: lost because they were too far to the left. We 426 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: have a lot of examples of Democrats who couldn't get 427 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: turned out. Well. It's interesting in the last few days, 428 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: UH people are accusing of the New York Times of 429 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,399 Speaker 1: trying to bring people to the center, and then there 430 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:50,920 Speaker 1: are people to the left like Matt Taiebi say no, 431 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,159 Speaker 1: we really have to run on the issues. You know, 432 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: a lot of them publicized by Bernie Sanders, having to 433 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: do with school debt and healthcare and other opportunity. And 434 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: as I say, this is how we lost. If I 435 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 1: want to say I am a Democrat, that is how 436 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: we lost the last time around. I guess when Hillary 437 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: Clinton said her favorite book was the Bible, I said, 438 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 1: it just blew all credibility. Well, I think when she 439 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,199 Speaker 1: said I'm going to ask Henry Kissinger for advice, and 440 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: when she said no, I won't tell you what I 441 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:25,520 Speaker 1: said to Goldman Sachs that it was it was not exciting. 442 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: You know, look, I voted for Hillary Clinton. I contributed 443 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: money to Hillary Clinton, and I think she would have 444 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 1: been a terrific president. I was for Burning in the 445 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: primaries because I agreed with him on the issues. But 446 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: I think the reality is that there's been too many 447 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,520 Speaker 1: Democratic leaders that haven't delivered for a lot of people. 448 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: And and some of those people, UH didn't vote last time, 449 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: and some of them voted for third parties. I think 450 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: five percent of the vote went to the libertarian or 451 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: to Jill Stein. I think all those people, I don't 452 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: think any of those people would have voted for Trump. 453 00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: Some of them would have voted for for Hillary. Maybe 454 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: some of them you just could never get. There's a 455 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 1: certain core of nihilist lefties that will never vote for 456 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: a Democrat. But it's not five percent, and uh, you 457 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: know that was you know, and then you look at 458 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: the young people. The percentage of progressive views of people 459 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: under thirty or fifteen twenty points higher than the rest 460 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:21,800 Speaker 1: of the polation, And uh, every every election is more 461 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 1: of those people. And you've got to motivate them and 462 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: show them there's a real difference and that it's worth 463 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: it and taking it for granted because you just kind 464 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,159 Speaker 1: of quote something that you know lb J did fifty 465 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 1: years ago is not going to do it. You've got 466 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: to So I on that particular argument, I'm I'm more 467 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: on the mat Ti e B side, not only because 468 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: I happen to believe in those issues, because I don't 469 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: believe the other thing works that what the what you're 470 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: describing the not let's not go too far to the 471 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,560 Speaker 1: left platform is what lost for the Democrats, not only 472 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, but but successive midterms and governorships. And you know, 473 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,040 Speaker 1: the Democratic Party is the weakest in terms of a 474 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: of office that it's been in my lifetime because they 475 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 1: keep taking the advice of these so called experts who 476 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,800 Speaker 1: claim to know what the center thinks, except they keep losing. 477 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: If they would win, I would salute, you know, but 478 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 1: they lost, so obviously their expertise is not what they 479 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: claim it was. Okay, you're speaking my language before we 480 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,640 Speaker 1: go back to the beginning here. Is there a place 481 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:26,400 Speaker 1: for music in this political sphere? And can music move 482 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: the needle? Um? You know, it's so hard to know 483 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: how music affects people relative to to politics. The historical 484 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: role of music has mostly been as a source of 485 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: encouragement for people. When when you know, John by Ezra 486 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 1: Pete Seeger would go and sing for the civil rights workers, 487 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,240 Speaker 1: or phil Oaks would sing at peace rallies, or Jackson 488 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: Brown and Bonnie Rate would would sing, you know, for 489 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: anti nuclear rallies and things like that. It's not been 490 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: to convert people. It's mostly been to kind of inspire 491 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: and motivate the troops and to raise money. Um, you 492 00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,679 Speaker 1: never know what art can do. You know, I wouldn't 493 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: look at music as a separate category. I would just 494 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: think creativity in general. I mean, certainly, Uncle Tom's cabin 495 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: is believed to have been a big catalyst in getting 496 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: white people who had political power to finally be against slavery. 497 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: So that's the famous example of a work of art 498 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,679 Speaker 1: actually moving the needle. But I think in terms of 499 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: the general atmosphere of the culture, to the extent that 500 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: art is makes certain things cool. Uh, you know it helps. 501 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: I don't think it's it's it's it's that big deal. 502 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: I think the underlying issues matter more. And and there again, 503 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: the main role of artist is to support politicians. As 504 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: much as I love Harry Bellafante, he supported Martin Luther King, 505 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: he wasn't Martin Luther King, and he would be the 506 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: first to say that. Okay, So going back to Field Stem, 507 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,480 Speaker 1: you were in high school in a very tumultual was era. 508 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:04,080 Speaker 1: Were you involved in politics them? I was to the 509 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 1: extent I could be. Um. You know, a bunch of 510 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,160 Speaker 1: us in in um in seventh grade. One of my 511 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: my best friend in high school was somebody named Joel Goodman, 512 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: who was still a friend of mine. He lives in 513 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: Santa Monica, not far from where we're doing this podcast, 514 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 1: and he um His uncle was Paul Goodman, who's a 515 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: famous radical writer of the fifties, great hero of both 516 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: the gay rights movement and a lot of left wing movements. 517 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 1: So he was way more tuned in to sort of 518 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,840 Speaker 1: left the ideas than I was. But my parents, like 519 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,919 Speaker 1: I was telling you earlier, supported these things. And he 520 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,199 Speaker 1: had the idea that we should protest air A drills 521 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: because they represented preparation for war and kind of enabling 522 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: a war psychology. And so in seventh grade, six of 523 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: us held signs up mindset, don't prepare for war, prevented 524 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: and refused to participate in an air A drill, and 525 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: we got suspended for a day. But then the next 526 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: year they stopped having air aid drill. So now this 527 00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: was a private school, but it gave me an unrealistic 528 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: sense of what protests could do, which I've never completely lost. Okay, 529 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: so you get kicked out of school for a day 530 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: for your say, Oh, they were all for it. Now, 531 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,479 Speaker 1: my parents supported that. My parents didn't like it when 532 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: I started smoking dope and taking acid that and and 533 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: dropped out of college. That freaked them out. But the 534 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: political activity they were completely supportive of. And a bunch 535 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: of us got a bus in sixty five to go 536 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: to a march on Washington against the war fields and 537 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,399 Speaker 1: bus and uh and one of my classmates in in 538 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: in Um. The last three years of High school was 539 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 1: Gil Scott heron Um. You know, he he got a 540 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 1: scholarship there. He had his family had moved up from 541 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: somewhere in the South. I think it's Virginia, but it 542 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: might be Tennessee. I it's but he was immediately the 543 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: most popular kid in school because he was that cool. 544 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:56,800 Speaker 1: He was the lone African American. There were a few 545 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: other African Americans, not a lot, but I think we 546 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: had of a class of a hundred, I think there 547 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: were seven or eight. But he was just so charismatic. 548 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: He was the center of the basketball team. He was 549 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: the biggest, he was the main he was the wide 550 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: end on the football team. He was the most talented musically. 551 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,320 Speaker 1: He had the best sense of humor, and he was 552 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 1: an incredible writer. The first day in English class, we've 553 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: been given this assignment about what did you do over 554 00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: the summer? And mine was the I went to the beach. 555 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: I rode my bike and brought a copy of Mad magazine, 556 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,080 Speaker 1: and I had a ice cream Sunday and I rode 557 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: back and we're all having these like a sort of 558 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:36,360 Speaker 1: four line see Dick run type descriptions, and the okay, 559 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: Gil yours and he starts reading the wind blew through 560 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: Merrit's hair. She hadn't slept all night, but she'd had 561 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: enough coffee that she was you know, it was literature. 562 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 1: And we all looked around, like, who is this guy? 563 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:55,959 Speaker 1: You know? And um, so he was, you know, he wasn't. Um, 564 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: he didn't come with us to the to the march. 565 00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: His mother was pretty strict and but but he was. 566 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: He was a lefty, he was. He was a definite lefty. 567 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: Now was he your friend in school? He was my friend. 568 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: He mostly hung out with the jocks, but he liked me. 569 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: So it's it's counterintuitor, isn't it. But but these were 570 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,479 Speaker 1: fields in Shocks. This is a mostly Jewish private school. 571 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: This this was not providing players for the NFL or NBA. 572 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: You know. Um, but he uh, he was. He was 573 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: a good guy and he was he was. Everybody loved Gil. 574 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:32,959 Speaker 1: He got along with kind of all the different cliques 575 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: and and and I considered him a friend and he 576 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: and I saw him in subsequent years at different times 577 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: in both of our lives. You know, Now, any of 578 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:45,440 Speaker 1: your contemporaries from Fieldston become notable on the scene, Oh, 579 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: I don't know. I would say he was by far 580 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: the most spectacular public figure from our particular class. Okay, 581 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: so you graduate from Fieldson and you go to college 582 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: where I got it into the University of California at 583 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: Berkeley because I was an underachiever, as they used to 584 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: call us, a d D people in those days, do 585 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: you consider yourself to have a d D? In retrospect? 586 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: I know what it was? That the story, that's the 587 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: story I tell myself now for being such a mediocre student. 588 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: Who knows but I um, but but but I was 589 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: a good test taker. And Berkeley was one of the 590 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: schools that only looked at the S A T. S. 591 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: So the guidance people said, don't even those are the 592 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,320 Speaker 1: only colleges you should apply to, because if they look 593 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 1: at your grades, they're not gonna want you, you know. 594 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: And I spent an entire week going to classes and 595 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,760 Speaker 1: that was it. I just was only into drugs at 596 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: that time, and so I dropped out literally after one week. 597 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,120 Speaker 1: This is the fall of sixty No, no, this is 598 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: this is the fall of sixties seven. I graduated from 599 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 1: high school in June sixty seven and go I wind 600 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: up in Berkeley, and okay, sixty seven. Okay, so that 601 00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: is literally just at the end of the summer of law. 602 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: Just missed the summer of law. Yeah, so by the 603 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,680 Speaker 1: time I visited Hay to Ashbury, it was it was 604 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: already kind of ruined by the influx of junkies and predators. 605 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: And I mostly stayed in Berkeley, but I did. But 606 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: I saw it right after the Summer of Love. The 607 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: real summer of love, I think, having just written a 608 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: book about this, was really sixty six. That was the 609 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: real idealistic period. Sixty seven was the media summer of love. 610 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 1: Although many people think sixty eight was the summer of love. 611 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: Who weren't around that today was the summer of assassination 612 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 1: was certainly that was when the mains just started to 613 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: get included in. But you're in Berkeley, which is a 614 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: hot bit of radicalization, and could you still feel that 615 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: even though Mario Savio was before that, etcetera. Well, there 616 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: was a schism. It wasn't an official schism, but there 617 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: was the fact of schism among people that were kind 618 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: of long haired, people that were generally rebellious baby boomer 619 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: anti war types, between people that were sort of into 620 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: the seeing political radicalism in the anti war move as 621 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:03,240 Speaker 1: their number one priority, and people who saw getting high 622 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: as their number one priority. And I was in the 623 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:08,760 Speaker 1: latter group. I was an asset head who was against 624 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 1: the war and proudly against it. I had no ambiguity 625 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,280 Speaker 1: about it. But I didn't want to sit in meetings. 626 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,560 Speaker 1: I was never part of STS. I was really mainly 627 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,400 Speaker 1: into getting high. Okay, So were you into getting high 628 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: in high school? I was okay? So why do you 629 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,000 Speaker 1: You just doubled down when you get to Berkeley? Correct? 630 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: Because I didn't have parents to come home to anymore. Okay, 631 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: So you literally stopped going to classes after one week? Correct? 632 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: And but you're living in the dorm. No, at Berkeley, 633 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 1: you did not have to live in the dorm. So 634 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: Joel Goodman, the fellow I mentioned you before, also went 635 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: to Berkeley and we shared an apartment. It was actually 636 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: in a town called Albany, California, that's just passed the 637 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,920 Speaker 1: border of just slightly north of of Berkeley. So we 638 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: we had an apartment and we're not in a dorm. Well, 639 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:52,000 Speaker 1: so what? And he continue to go to school. He 640 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: stayed in Berkeley for about another year, and then he 641 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: later became a film editor. You'll see his name on 642 00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: the credits of many TV series and the movies and 643 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,880 Speaker 1: so on. He Okay, so you're there. You you stopped 644 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,520 Speaker 1: going to class for uh after week. You know you 645 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 1: know something is coming. There's a bell that's gonna be wrong. 646 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: Your parents are gonna freak out. So what's going through 647 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,279 Speaker 1: your head? You know? I this was not the time 648 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,640 Speaker 1: in my life when I was the most clear thinking. 649 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: Um what was I was really thinking everything in terms 650 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: of sort of the next twenty four hours, and I 651 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: really became a druggie. I'm not particularly proud of it. 652 00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: I think that the psychedelics played a positive role for 653 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: me at one moment in my life, but thereafter I 654 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: was just into taking all kinds of drugs, including you know, 655 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: meth and heroin and everything. And I got arrested in 656 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: May of sixty eight wandering around asking a cop for 657 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 1: directions when I was very, very stoned, and it was 658 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,040 Speaker 1: obviously subconsciously something I wanted to do. It's scared, you know, 659 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: I was scared straight, as the expression goes. I spent 660 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 1: six days and Alameda County Juvenile All my parents found 661 00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 1: some laurying got me out. It was before my eighteenth birthday, 662 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: and the lawyers were not as strict then, and and 663 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,240 Speaker 1: I I didn't. I don't think I took any drugs 664 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:04,640 Speaker 1: or had a glass of wine for a ten or 665 00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:07,879 Speaker 1: fifteen years after that. Really, you were literally scared. I 666 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,600 Speaker 1: was like I, I don't understand a lot of things 667 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 1: about life, but I never want to put myself in 668 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 1: that position again. You know, that was very clear. I 669 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:17,799 Speaker 1: got lucky nobody raped me or beat me up. I was, 670 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 1: but I never wanted to be in that situation again. 671 00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,960 Speaker 1: How about today? I still don't want to be in jail. 672 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: But would you imbibe any uh? I don't have a 673 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: social glass of wine or smoke a joint. You know 674 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:29,839 Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not a twelve step person that many 675 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:32,359 Speaker 1: of the people closest to me are. But but in 676 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:39,839 Speaker 1: the in the extreme moderation, we'll take a quick break 677 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,520 Speaker 1: and come back with more of my conversation with Danny Goldberg, 678 00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:49,080 Speaker 1: recording it at the Tune in studios in Venice, California. 679 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: I love sitting down with music industry veterans like Danny 680 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: and traveling back in time and getting their history. I 681 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 1: love getting to the heart of a person's story, whether 682 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: they're perform warmer, a manager, a record label executive, or 683 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: just someone on the street. Everyone's got a story and 684 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: I want to hear it. This week, Danny Goldberg tells 685 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 1: us all about his roles in the music business. Previously, 686 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,320 Speaker 1: we talked with artists like Cascade, Moby and Shirley Manson 687 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 1: of Garbage. Whether you come from the music conversation or 688 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,319 Speaker 1: learn more about the business, be the first to hear 689 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: next week's episode by subscribing to the podcast on tune in, 690 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 1: Apple or your podcast host of choice. If you like 691 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: what you hear, please rate, review, and of course tell 692 00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: your friends they'll dig it to. Okay, let's get back 693 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: to my conversation with Danny Goldberg. Okay, so when do 694 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,680 Speaker 1: your parents wake up to the fact you ain't going 695 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,319 Speaker 1: to school. I think when they got the call from 696 00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 1: the jail was when they woke up to it. And 697 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 1: so how pissed were they? They were devastated. My poor parents. 698 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,640 Speaker 1: They were such lovely people, and I got very close 699 00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 1: to them by the time I hit my thirties, but 700 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: you know, at that time in my life, I just 701 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,560 Speaker 1: didn't want them in my head. They they were I 702 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,799 Speaker 1: if I get to be born again and live on 703 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:04,720 Speaker 1: a planet like this, and I can pick my parents. 704 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:07,800 Speaker 1: I'm fine to have the same parents. They were really interesting, 705 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,719 Speaker 1: loving people, and I became particularly close to my dad, 706 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: who outlived my mom and and who was the not 707 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 1: the disciplinarian of the two of them, and was the 708 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 1: unconditional love guy. But they were just freaked out. I mean, 709 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,600 Speaker 1: they didn't understand it. They were worried that I'd ruined 710 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,960 Speaker 1: my life. But you know, within you know, I got 711 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 1: a job. I got the job working for Billboard. Remember 712 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: of that year. Okay, you're in Berkeley, you get out 713 00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,319 Speaker 1: of juvenile hall, you go back to your parents. I 714 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,640 Speaker 1: have to go back. The condition of my release was 715 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 1: that I would not be in California for a year, 716 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 1: that i'd get therapy, and and so I'm living in 717 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,520 Speaker 1: their apartment going to some kind of group therapy that 718 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,319 Speaker 1: was for people with drug problems. Was that beneficial at all? 719 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,920 Speaker 1: It was? First of all, I was so surprising to 720 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,000 Speaker 1: me that other people had problems. I thought I was 721 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,600 Speaker 1: the only one I had problems. So just that sheer 722 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,200 Speaker 1: fact of sitting in a group. And what was really 723 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 1: amazing to me was that older people had problems, because 724 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: I thought only people my age had problems. So just 725 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,239 Speaker 1: in terms of that superficial getting out of my own 726 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 1: self centered nous, it was hugely helpful. And there was 727 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: one therapist there named Ralph Ricky. I think he's passed away, 728 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,239 Speaker 1: that I still remember that that that that he just 729 00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: helped me feel a little bit better about myself. I 730 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: only went for Bad five or six months, and then 731 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: I by the fall, this was June, and by September 732 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: I got the job at Billboard. How did you get 733 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,919 Speaker 1: the job at Billboard? And The New York Times really 734 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: says magazine clerk wanted for magazine. I had no idea 735 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:37,480 Speaker 1: what Billboard was. I didn't know there was a music business. 736 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: I just loved rock and roll as a fan. I 737 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: didn't know there was a whole business and that it 738 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:44,200 Speaker 1: would be a trade magazine about it, or three trade 739 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,759 Speaker 1: magazines about it. But you know, I figured magazine. I'd 740 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 1: written for the high school newspaper. I figured the other 741 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: job that I could get was key punch operator for 742 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:56,439 Speaker 1: Sears Roebuck and writer. You know, magazine just sounded better 743 00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: to me than Sears Roll. Did it say Billboard? Uh? 744 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 1: I don't remember, But I didn't know what Billboard was. 745 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,399 Speaker 1: I didn't really unders thinking of other competition. Other people 746 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:09,520 Speaker 1: might want that gig. Well, I don't know, you know, 747 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,879 Speaker 1: nobody knew what the music business was then later on 748 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: USA today, the New York Times would print charts and 749 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: they'd beat you. Developed subsequent generations understood there were things 750 00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: called record companies and managers and agents, and it became 751 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 1: part of popular conversation. At that time. Nobody knew anything 752 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 1: about this except people that were in the business. So 753 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 1: I certainly didn't know what billboard was, and I really 754 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,520 Speaker 1: didn't understand what it was when I started the first 755 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,000 Speaker 1: day and I was leafing through it, and they had 756 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,840 Speaker 1: pictures of like Janis Joplin and people that I liked, 757 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: in addition to kind of country artists and R and 758 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,120 Speaker 1: B artists. And the job was in the chart department, 759 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,920 Speaker 1: where there was no bar codes then. So the way 760 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:50,080 Speaker 1: they compiled the charts what they had seven or eight 761 00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: of us called stores three or four three three days 762 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: a week. We would call the stores and read a 763 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,200 Speaker 1: checklist of all the singles that were on the list 764 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: and ask to people who answered the phone or is 765 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 1: it selling heavy, medium, light or not at all? And 766 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,319 Speaker 1: then what's your top ten selling albums, and then I 767 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 1: had and then some of us had specialties. Mind was 768 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 1: classical music, so I would also have a list of 769 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,279 Speaker 1: classical stories to call to compile the classical chart. And 770 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 1: then we and then then one day we'd spent compiling 771 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 1: the now would be called data. And then then then 772 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,839 Speaker 1: the fifth day we'd answer the phone when people called 773 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 1: all day asking where their record was on the charts. 774 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: So if there are five other people doing this and 775 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: you're basically a data technician, you're not on the fast 776 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:39,680 Speaker 1: road anywhere. Well what happened is they were. I discovered 777 00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:42,880 Speaker 1: that there was this thing called the music business, and 778 00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:48,000 Speaker 1: there were people. I discovered two things pretty quickly. Number one, 779 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:51,440 Speaker 1: there were people and another side of the office that 780 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,800 Speaker 1: got to go to concerts for free and got free records, 781 00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: and all they had to do was write their opinions 782 00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,200 Speaker 1: about them. And I had pretty low self esteem, but 783 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,239 Speaker 1: I knew I could do that. You have plenty of yeah, 784 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,920 Speaker 1: especially about music, you know, especially about the kind of 785 00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 1: music that I that I like. So I was immediately, 786 00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: how do I get that job? How do I get 787 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 1: that job? But no, no, no, no, there's that you 788 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,359 Speaker 1: have to be credentialed. And but what what happened is 789 00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 1: that by nagging enough. It was a small enough office, 790 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,120 Speaker 1: there were there were certain assignments that none of the 791 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 1: staff writers could cover, and so within a few months 792 00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,879 Speaker 1: they would let me as a freelancer do pieces that 793 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,960 Speaker 1: nobody else none of the states remember. The first one 794 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 1: ever was a banned on Atlantic called Mr Flood's Party. 795 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 1: I don't even remember that. No, they were a flop. 796 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: They played at the Steve Poles the Scene and um, 797 00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:52,200 Speaker 1: I wrote one that I do remember, um about the Rascals. 798 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:55,279 Speaker 1: The Rascals played at an outdoor venue in Queens. I 799 00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,360 Speaker 1: think it was called the Pavilion. It was on the 800 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 1: side of what had previously been the World's Fair. And um, 801 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,840 Speaker 1: and I wrote, um, and I love the Rascals. But 802 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:07,440 Speaker 1: I knew I'm supposed to be a critic, so I'm 803 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 1: supposed to say something critical or I'm not really a critic. 804 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:12,880 Speaker 1: So I said, well, feelis cavalerian Eddie Brigotti sound amazing 805 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:15,680 Speaker 1: vocalist and the songs are great, And I said and 806 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,319 Speaker 1: and and Gene Cornish twanged his guitar. Because this was 807 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,239 Speaker 1: the era of guitar heroes. You have Jimmy Hendrix and 808 00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 1: Eric Clapton and you know Jeff Beck and you know 809 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,520 Speaker 1: these amazing guitar players. And he was like, you know 810 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:33,080 Speaker 1: the rascals guitar. So on Monday, which was in the magazine, 811 00:42:33,160 --> 00:42:39,359 Speaker 1: is published The Phone Rings and it's Gene Cornish and 812 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,600 Speaker 1: he says, um, what do you mean I twanged my guitary? 813 00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 1: Do you know how long I practiced to learn other players? 814 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 1: I have a lot of I said, I didn't mean 815 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,000 Speaker 1: it as a criticism. I I just, uh, you know, 816 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 1: I was so I felt so terrible. I didn't know 817 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: that these people in bands were human beings that would 818 00:42:56,880 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 1: read or care about anything like this. I was just 819 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: trying to look like I was a critic, and after 820 00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,239 Speaker 1: that it was very hard for me to criticize musicians, 821 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:05,920 Speaker 1: you know. And that's why I ended up being a 822 00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 1: much better publicist than I was a critic. Okay, So 823 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:11,440 Speaker 1: if you're starting to fall of sixty eight, let's go 824 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:13,759 Speaker 1: back to the additional question. You end up being the 825 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,759 Speaker 1: writer for Woodstock, So then then I'm still at Billboard 826 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:21,760 Speaker 1: by by August of sixty nine, when when Woodstock happens 827 00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,920 Speaker 1: and none of the writers wanted to cover it because 828 00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 1: a good assignment for a Billboard writer. These were old 829 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:31,359 Speaker 1: guys like thirty five, you know, totally different generation than 830 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,400 Speaker 1: a nineteen year old, and they they wanted to go 831 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 1: to clubs like the Copacabana where you got a free 832 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,759 Speaker 1: drinks and free dinner. Those were the assignments that were 833 00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:43,279 Speaker 1: coveted by the staff writers. Nobody wanted to slep up 834 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,200 Speaker 1: to the country. They didn't care about these artists. They 835 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,719 Speaker 1: were ten fifteen years older, and so nobody wanted to go. 836 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:50,360 Speaker 1: So they somebody said, do you want to go? I 837 00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:52,920 Speaker 1: said yes, So I went there in a limo with 838 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,680 Speaker 1: the public The publicist for Woodstock was a woman named 839 00:43:56,719 --> 00:43:58,719 Speaker 1: Jane Friedman, who is still alive. I think she runs 840 00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,279 Speaker 1: an art gallery in Soho. Now and uh, stop for 841 00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,080 Speaker 1: one second. Are you making enough money at Billboard to 842 00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:06,960 Speaker 1: live in your own place? You're living with your parents? 843 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:08,840 Speaker 1: Oh no, No. The minute I got the job, I 844 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: got my own apartment. I was sharing it. Initially, I 845 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 1: had apartment in Brooklyn. Initially I was sharing with Peter Connoy, 846 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:15,680 Speaker 1: who was a fieldstin friend of mine. He was a 847 00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,560 Speaker 1: year older, first guy who's the first guy ever smoked 848 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 1: pot with and his father was a great civil liberties 849 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:25,080 Speaker 1: and civil rights lawer. He had represented Dr King and 850 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:29,239 Speaker 1: Adam Clayton Powell and other other people. But Peter like 851 00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 1: getting high, you know, and uh and and then after 852 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 1: I saved up about a thousand dollars, which was like 853 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:40,280 Speaker 1: this huge milestone when of my savings account was four figures, 854 00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,640 Speaker 1: I got an apartment on St. Mark's Place by myself. 855 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,680 Speaker 1: So I don't remember when Woodstock happened, if I was 856 00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:48,359 Speaker 1: still in Brooklyn, or if I had moved to sing. 857 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,200 Speaker 1: So you're going in the limo with Jane Friedman. It 858 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,400 Speaker 1: was me, Jane Friedman, and there was a writer named Vincelletti. 859 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,720 Speaker 1: Roll wrote at that time for a magazine called Rat. 860 00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,880 Speaker 1: He later became kind of a village voice writer and 861 00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:05,560 Speaker 1: particular expertise on R and B and disco. And I'm 862 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:07,480 Speaker 1: trying to think if anyone else was in the car. 863 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,520 Speaker 1: I know it was me, Vinceletti and Jane Free. Okay, 864 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:11,400 Speaker 1: So you're going to go in the car to Woodstock, 865 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:15,440 Speaker 1: and you're going to stay where in a hotel? They 866 00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,799 Speaker 1: were the publicists for Woodstock. They had a group of 867 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 1: rooms for the writers. And so I may get money, 868 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,440 Speaker 1: did you make it to the hotel, Yeah, definitely. Okay, 869 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 1: So do you hit any trap if they if the 870 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:29,560 Speaker 1: first day of shows was Friday? Did you go on Friday? 871 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,440 Speaker 1: Did you go on Thursday? You know? All I remember 872 00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,080 Speaker 1: is that when I finally got to the site of 873 00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:39,399 Speaker 1: the festival, the band that was playing was Santana. So 874 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,439 Speaker 1: in my mind it was the first day. But it's 875 00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,000 Speaker 1: a long time ago, and a lot of my memories 876 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:48,440 Speaker 1: of Woodstock are commingled with the memories of watching the 877 00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 1: Woodstock movie. I'm not sure which are my memories in 878 00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,719 Speaker 1: which I'm just remembering seeing in the movie, but I 879 00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,320 Speaker 1: do remember it was Santana and I've never heard of Santana, 880 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,320 Speaker 1: and I walked up and I asked, these people aren't like, 881 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,000 Speaker 1: who's that, you know? And it was the town and 882 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,279 Speaker 1: they're amazing, and it was so that's like one of 883 00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,080 Speaker 1: my They were definitely on because they were so good 884 00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:09,879 Speaker 1: and they were brand new to me at that time, 885 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,920 Speaker 1: and so I happen to remember that now. Certainly it's 886 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,520 Speaker 1: iconic at this point, But in terms of the experience, 887 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:19,280 Speaker 1: what did you think, Well, what I felt was, even 888 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,600 Speaker 1: though I hadn't been taking drugs for more than a 889 00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,319 Speaker 1: year and was really committed to the idea that I'm 890 00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 1: not that guy anymore. Who's who's going to screw up 891 00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:31,480 Speaker 1: my life by taking drugs. I still completely identified with 892 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:36,799 Speaker 1: the romance of hippie culture. And I was so moved 893 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:41,000 Speaker 1: by the audience and the crowd and the and the 894 00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,959 Speaker 1: camaraderie and sweetness of everybody there that that's my main 895 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,839 Speaker 1: memory more than the music. It was, it was, it was, 896 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,080 Speaker 1: it was you know, it turned out to be the 897 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,799 Speaker 1: end of something, not the beginning of something, but it 898 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:59,720 Speaker 1: was something in that moment that I was very moved by. So, okay, 899 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,160 Speaker 1: you pored on that for Billboard and they put on 900 00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:03,920 Speaker 1: the front page. The only time I ever had a 901 00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,520 Speaker 1: front page story in Billboard. They let me write. Usually 902 00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:08,839 Speaker 1: I'd have to write like three words. This I think 903 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,600 Speaker 1: they let me write a couple of thousand words because 904 00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,400 Speaker 1: it was a big turned out to be a big story, 905 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,640 Speaker 1: and I was the only Billboard guy that was there. 906 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,279 Speaker 1: And how much long do you stay at Billboard before 907 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,120 Speaker 1: you become a publicist. Well, I went through a series 908 00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,719 Speaker 1: there was a gap in between Billboard. I went through 909 00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:26,799 Speaker 1: a series of of of of short term jobs. First 910 00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,319 Speaker 1: of all, I went from Billboard to Record World, which 911 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:31,799 Speaker 1: was one of the three because Record World was a 912 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,440 Speaker 1: competitive Billboard, but a Record World, I didn't have to 913 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,880 Speaker 1: be in the chart department anymore. I was just hired 914 00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,360 Speaker 1: as a writer. So that was a huge step forward 915 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:45,080 Speaker 1: because I was only writing periodically as a freelancer while 916 00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,200 Speaker 1: still having to be in the chart department. A Record World, 917 00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:52,080 Speaker 1: I had a weekly column called Getting It Together, and 918 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:54,120 Speaker 1: and I reviewed shows, and I interviewed people and I 919 00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:56,319 Speaker 1: wrote story. So that was a full time writing job. 920 00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,439 Speaker 1: And then I got fired from that because I kept 921 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:03,560 Speaker 1: coming in eight You know, I hadn't completely mastered this 922 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,800 Speaker 1: adult thing yet. Uh. It's so funny because now the 923 00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:08,759 Speaker 1: last thirty or forty years, when I have people who 924 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: work from you coming late, I really don't like it. Well, 925 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,919 Speaker 1: what's your definition of late? Uh? You know, if it's 926 00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:18,640 Speaker 1: more than it depends on the Like our office now, 927 00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,920 Speaker 1: in my little company, we look at ten o'clock as 928 00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,799 Speaker 1: a time. Other companies I had at nine o'clock. But 929 00:48:24,840 --> 00:48:27,719 Speaker 1: to me, if it's more than twenty minutes, it's late, right, 930 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:29,160 Speaker 1: I just meant the time that you would have to 931 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,080 Speaker 1: arrive so you get can from Record World. So I 932 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,080 Speaker 1: got caned from Billboard. Then I got Can from Record World. 933 00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,160 Speaker 1: No no, you didn't tell me you got Key No no, no, no, right, right, 934 00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,680 Speaker 1: I went from Billboard to Record right then. Um, there 935 00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:43,160 Speaker 1: was about a year where I worked for Circus Magazine. 936 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,239 Speaker 1: I think I had the title of managing editor of that, 937 00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,600 Speaker 1: and that was so sort of a cross between sixteen 938 00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:54,240 Speaker 1: Magazine and Rolling Stone, right, it was. It was going, 939 00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,279 Speaker 1: That's a good description of it. It was certainly for 940 00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,840 Speaker 1: more for males and girls. You know, it was a 941 00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,719 Speaker 1: little bit older audience than sixteen. And it was a 942 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,239 Speaker 1: rock magazine. There were no pop, no Bobby Sherman, no 943 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,600 Speaker 1: David Cassidy. It was it was rock. But the thing 944 00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,360 Speaker 1: that roll that Circus had that Rolling Stone even didn't 945 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:15,080 Speaker 1: have at that time was color pictures. Rolling Stone later 946 00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,000 Speaker 1: got colored, but for this brief period, so Circus had 947 00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:21,160 Speaker 1: shorter articles, but we had some of the Rolling Stone 948 00:49:21,239 --> 00:49:24,480 Speaker 1: typewriters like Paul Nelson wrote also for Circus, and a 949 00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:26,359 Speaker 1: lot of the people who wrote for Rolling Stone would 950 00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:28,479 Speaker 1: also write pieces for Circus. To pick up an extra 951 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,080 Speaker 1: fifty hundred bucks, you have another outlet or or whatever. 952 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,080 Speaker 1: And so I did that for about a year and 953 00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:38,840 Speaker 1: then I got a job working for Albert Grossman's publishing 954 00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,399 Speaker 1: company that I wasn't any good at. But I got 955 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,640 Speaker 1: to meet Albert Grossman, who was my great hero of mine, 956 00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:45,680 Speaker 1: who's Bob Dylan's manager, and I've seen him in that 957 00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,239 Speaker 1: movie Don't Look Back. And at least I got to 958 00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:51,960 Speaker 1: meet him, you know, at that time. And and then 959 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,960 Speaker 1: finally I was kind of desperate. I wasn't getting writing 960 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:58,040 Speaker 1: work anymore because I wasn't really that good a writer. 961 00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,480 Speaker 1: I was just mostly into trying to meet girls and 962 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,120 Speaker 1: having friends and I wasn't serious about you know, there's 963 00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:09,000 Speaker 1: this um website called my back Pages, uh that's out 964 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,200 Speaker 1: of England that compiles rock journalism. So they found a 965 00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,320 Speaker 1: lot of my old articles, including especially the Circus articles, 966 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,880 Speaker 1: and it's I don't think I ever wrote a second 967 00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,800 Speaker 1: draft of anything. It was all this. So I walked 968 00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:25,480 Speaker 1: into the room and you know, Alvin Lee was just 969 00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:29,480 Speaker 1: eating breakfast, and you know, I thought that's what journalism was. UM. 970 00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:32,680 Speaker 1: So I couldn't I couldn't make it as a writer. 971 00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:34,680 Speaker 1: And I got a job working for Lee S. Walters, 972 00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:39,520 Speaker 1: who was the real rand old great show business uh, 973 00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:44,160 Speaker 1: you know publicist he um one of One of the 974 00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:46,680 Speaker 1: things that happened that was a big life changing experience 975 00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:48,920 Speaker 1: for me when I was at Record World was I 976 00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:53,360 Speaker 1: met a guy named Danny Fields. And Danny Fields I 977 00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,560 Speaker 1: had read about because there had been an article about him. 978 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,840 Speaker 1: He had worked in Electra in in the in the 979 00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:03,920 Speaker 1: eight period, where his actual title was company freak, and 980 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:06,480 Speaker 1: he then signed the m C five and the Stooges 981 00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:08,360 Speaker 1: to Electorate. He later was one of the managers of 982 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:12,160 Speaker 1: the Ramons. He also, I believe, introduced the Louie to 983 00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,960 Speaker 1: Andy Warhol. I mean, he's a great historical figureing. There's 984 00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,160 Speaker 1: a documentary about him called Danny Says. It came out 985 00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,440 Speaker 1: a few years ago, and he read a piece. The 986 00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,600 Speaker 1: woman named Gloria Stavers, who was the editor of sixteen magazine, 987 00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,880 Speaker 1: UM read everything and took notes, and she read a 988 00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:29,960 Speaker 1: column that I wrote about the m C five for 989 00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:32,840 Speaker 1: Record World and sent it to Danny. And Danny called 990 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:36,640 Speaker 1: me and said, uh, we should have lunch, you know, great, 991 00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:38,560 Speaker 1: you know and and and then he took me the 992 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,880 Speaker 1: next night to Maxis, Kansas City, where I met Gloria. 993 00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 1: Woman named Lillian Rockson who was the Australian correspondent for 994 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,640 Speaker 1: the Sydney Morning Herald, who at the Encyclopedia of the 995 00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:52,520 Speaker 1: Encyclopedia of Rock, and Steve Paul, who was Johnny Winter's 996 00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:54,319 Speaker 1: manager and runs De Poils, and I met all of 997 00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:58,080 Speaker 1: them the same night and they became the most important 998 00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:00,560 Speaker 1: people in my life. For the next several years, I 999 00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:03,080 Speaker 1: just would go to Max's every night, and it was 1000 00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,319 Speaker 1: my social life, was my professional life, and it was 1001 00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:09,480 Speaker 1: my identity and I it just conferred. Being Danny's friend 1002 00:52:09,640 --> 00:52:13,600 Speaker 1: was this instantly legitimacy in a culture that was a 1003 00:52:13,719 --> 00:52:18,440 Speaker 1: million times cooler than anything I'd ever encountered, And overnight 1004 00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:21,640 Speaker 1: I had an identity that I really owe him forever for. 1005 00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:25,040 Speaker 1: But I did find my own way. I mean, after 1006 00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:27,560 Speaker 1: the first night I could go myself. Mickey Ruskin, the 1007 00:52:27,560 --> 00:52:30,040 Speaker 1: guy who ran it, was just kind of if he 1008 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:32,440 Speaker 1: you know, the big thing with Mickey Ruskin famously is 1009 00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,279 Speaker 1: if you came in a limo, he wouldn't let you in. 1010 00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:36,840 Speaker 1: You know, that wasn't what you know, he had like 1011 00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:43,080 Speaker 1: this inverse snobbery. So um so. Gloria became a good 1012 00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:45,400 Speaker 1: friend of mine and she was a mentor. She was 1013 00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:49,200 Speaker 1: such a glamorous person. She passed away. Uh, in her 1014 00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,919 Speaker 1: fifties from lung cancer. But she had an extraordinary life. 1015 00:52:52,960 --> 00:52:55,759 Speaker 1: First of all, she she invented a lot of you know, 1016 00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:59,279 Speaker 1: before Rolling Stone sixteen magazine was all there was. And 1017 00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,520 Speaker 1: she did some of the earliest interviews with Dylan and 1018 00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:04,800 Speaker 1: the Beatles and Elvis. And she did a thing about 1019 00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,320 Speaker 1: Rolling Stone when it first was published that Yan always 1020 00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:11,400 Speaker 1: said helped get them thousands of subscriptions. And and she 1021 00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,239 Speaker 1: had been Lenny Bruce's lover for the last several years 1022 00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:18,120 Speaker 1: of his life, which there was just no more awesome 1023 00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:20,880 Speaker 1: credential for me than someone who had known Lenny Bruce 1024 00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:22,400 Speaker 1: not to mention, and slept with him. So I just 1025 00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:25,719 Speaker 1: idolized her and did and and and she and she 1026 00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:29,799 Speaker 1: liked me, you know, so she she she um. When 1027 00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,680 Speaker 1: I was desperate for a job, she called Lee Alters 1028 00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,840 Speaker 1: and look, you know, if you want somebody to do 1029 00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:36,799 Speaker 1: rock and roll, this would this would this is this 1030 00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,200 Speaker 1: is who I would suggest. So Lee interviewed me, because 1031 00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:44,160 Speaker 1: of Glory's recommendation, hired me. And you know, within a 1032 00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:45,759 Speaker 1: few months he asked me if I thought it was 1033 00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:49,040 Speaker 1: a good idea for Salters and Roskin to do pr 1034 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:52,879 Speaker 1: for led Zeppelin and I said yes, and he said, well, 1035 00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:54,480 Speaker 1: you'll have to deal with them because I'm the guy 1036 00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:58,120 Speaker 1: Lombardo generation. I said, you got it. So then I 1037 00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,680 Speaker 1: was Led Zeppelin's publicistem that's which kind of branded me 1038 00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:02,440 Speaker 1: for the rest of my career. Okay, so you were 1039 00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,839 Speaker 1: Led Zeppelin's publicist at what point in their seventy three 1040 00:54:06,120 --> 00:54:09,279 Speaker 1: The album was Houses of the Holy and they that 1041 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:11,839 Speaker 1: album came out, and then they did an American tour 1042 00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,000 Speaker 1: and it was the tour where they sold out stadiums. 1043 00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:18,000 Speaker 1: One of them was Tampa, which was fifty hundred people, 1044 00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,680 Speaker 1: which was more people than so the Beatles and Jay Stadium. 1045 00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:22,839 Speaker 1: And I got a wire service story about it, and 1046 00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,000 Speaker 1: you know, I got Zeppelin really the first good press 1047 00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:29,040 Speaker 1: they'd ever had. People. They're so legendary and such an 1048 00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:32,640 Speaker 1: influence on the musical culture that it's hard for people 1049 00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:35,360 Speaker 1: who weren't around to realize they never got good reviews. 1050 00:54:35,520 --> 00:54:40,359 Speaker 1: The rock press hated Zeppelin in those years because they 1051 00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:42,640 Speaker 1: you know, they were they were Their audience was younger. 1052 00:54:42,840 --> 00:54:45,800 Speaker 1: The Rolling Stone writers were into The Stones, Dylan Cream 1053 00:54:45,840 --> 00:54:48,280 Speaker 1: and then Zeppelin comes along, and Zeppelin was made famous 1054 00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,760 Speaker 1: by radio, not by the press, and so they always 1055 00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,719 Speaker 1: got bad reviews. So by House of the Holy was 1056 00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:56,759 Speaker 1: their fifth album, and it was the first time they 1057 00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:58,880 Speaker 1: got good press. And it was just the planets lined up. 1058 00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:00,239 Speaker 1: I was in the right place of the right time, 1059 00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,600 Speaker 1: and I could help them do that, and they liked 1060 00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,719 Speaker 1: me enough to then hire me before they hired So, 1061 00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:13,080 Speaker 1: you know, Peter Grant is a legendary guy. The BM 1062 00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,360 Speaker 1: members are known as being off putting too. How do 1063 00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:17,880 Speaker 1: you ingretiate yourself with that? Well, you know, I was 1064 00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,680 Speaker 1: so nervous, Lee and I Lee came to the first meeting. 1065 00:55:20,760 --> 00:55:22,680 Speaker 1: He said, I'll come to the first meeting and after 1066 00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,000 Speaker 1: that I'm never going to see them again or meet 1067 00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:26,759 Speaker 1: them again. But I'll go to the first meeting because 1068 00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,680 Speaker 1: they were hiring lease authors. And we flew to Paris. 1069 00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:32,600 Speaker 1: They were playing at the Palais to Sports in Paris, 1070 00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:35,879 Speaker 1: and we stayed at some fancy George sand hotel which 1071 00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,880 Speaker 1: is where the Zeppelin was saying, I've never been to 1072 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:43,520 Speaker 1: Europe before, you know, not to mention to Paris, and 1073 00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:45,440 Speaker 1: he says, so tell me about these guys. I said, Look, 1074 00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:47,960 Speaker 1: they got a really bad reputation with writers. I mean 1075 00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,120 Speaker 1: there was some writer named Ellen Sander who they supposedly 1076 00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,839 Speaker 1: threw things at and you know, they had, like what 1077 00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:58,640 Speaker 1: you're saying, a reputation of not being pleasant to strangers 1078 00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:00,840 Speaker 1: or people that weren't in their inn out, including and 1079 00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:05,200 Speaker 1: a particularly journalists because they viewed journalists as adversaries. I 1080 00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,640 Speaker 1: said there, like considered to be like barbarians. So we 1081 00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:09,799 Speaker 1: get to the meeting with Peter Grant. First we meet 1082 00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:11,600 Speaker 1: with Peter Grant, and then after that we meet with you. 1083 00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:15,799 Speaker 1: Who have it? Are you pitching? I don't really know, 1084 00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:20,000 Speaker 1: I mean Lee, they we flew over there. Um, I 1085 00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:23,799 Speaker 1: don't know how they came to him exactly. He was 1086 00:56:23,880 --> 00:56:27,080 Speaker 1: just to go to famous PR guy and they decided 1087 00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:30,520 Speaker 1: to go to him. I don't know really. Uh. In 1088 00:56:30,640 --> 00:56:34,040 Speaker 1: my understanding of it was that we had them, but 1089 00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:35,879 Speaker 1: I'm sure if they hadn't liked the meeting, they would 1090 00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:40,520 Speaker 1: have changed their mind. And um, so we're sitting there 1091 00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:43,640 Speaker 1: with Peter Grant, who is this three hundred plus pound 1092 00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:50,520 Speaker 1: former professional wrestler, wrestler, cockney accent, very intimidating, tough guy. 1093 00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:54,080 Speaker 1: And uh, I'd heard about Peter Grant, you know, and 1094 00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:57,600 Speaker 1: there was vague sense that he maybe new gangsters or 1095 00:56:57,760 --> 00:56:59,400 Speaker 1: could have been a thug or you know, it was 1096 00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:05,759 Speaker 1: a scary guy physically. And lisays, tell tell Peter, you 1097 00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:07,759 Speaker 1: tell me, tell tell him, tell tell him. You told me, 1098 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:12,319 Speaker 1: tell about the Barbarians thing. So I said to Peter, look, 1099 00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,520 Speaker 1: you know, um, like I talked to some of the 1100 00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:17,600 Speaker 1: writers and you know, there's like this feeling like that 1101 00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:21,440 Speaker 1: the that the band is almost like barbarians. And he 1102 00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:23,800 Speaker 1: looked at me with this big smile. You know, Peter 1103 00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:26,880 Speaker 1: was brilliant. He wasn't only tough, he was the smartest 1104 00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:28,960 Speaker 1: manager of his generation and knew how to be charming. 1105 00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:32,080 Speaker 1: He looked at his big smile and he said, yeah, 1106 00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:38,800 Speaker 1: but we're just mild barbarians. So then we met with 1107 00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:43,680 Speaker 1: the band and uh, you know, uh it was fine. 1108 00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:46,800 Speaker 1: You know, they they they you know, they they wanted 1109 00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:49,400 Speaker 1: good press. Robert Plant in particular was sick of He 1110 00:57:49,440 --> 00:57:51,360 Speaker 1: wanted his parents and the people who grew up with 1111 00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:53,920 Speaker 1: to read about him. Also, they already were the biggest 1112 00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:57,600 Speaker 1: band commercially, and he he did most of the interviews. 1113 00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:01,040 Speaker 1: Jimmy Jimmy controlled things, but he was in the big schmoozer. 1114 00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:03,800 Speaker 1: Robert was the big mooser. Okay, so you're moving from 1115 00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:09,080 Speaker 1: writing publicity with essentially no training or track record. How 1116 00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:12,400 Speaker 1: do you pick it up? Well? Two things. One is 1117 00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:15,919 Speaker 1: I had friends who were writers. All my friends wrote 1118 00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:17,840 Speaker 1: about rock and roll. I had spent three or four 1119 00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,680 Speaker 1: years in this clique of people that revolved around Max's 1120 00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:23,640 Speaker 1: Kansas City writers and who were on the press list. 1121 00:58:24,040 --> 00:58:26,160 Speaker 1: There was like a party every night. I mean it 1122 00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:28,720 Speaker 1: was the boom period in the music business. You never 1123 00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:30,720 Speaker 1: had to pay for a meal or pay for a ticket. 1124 00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:34,200 Speaker 1: So I knew the New York writers and it was 1125 00:58:34,240 --> 00:58:37,800 Speaker 1: all about favors and hey, it's can you do this 1126 00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,040 Speaker 1: for me? So like Lilian Rockson did the first piece 1127 00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:42,640 Speaker 1: for the New York Daily News. By this time, in 1128 00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,040 Speaker 1: addition to the Australian paper, she was the rock writer 1129 00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:46,480 Speaker 1: for the New York Daily News, which at that time 1130 00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:49,560 Speaker 1: I had the biggest circulation of any American newspaper. She 1131 00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:52,040 Speaker 1: did a big full page in the Sunday and so 1132 00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:54,160 Speaker 1: she came to the airport and did a piece on them. 1133 00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:56,560 Speaker 1: And so I was into asking my friends for favors. 1134 00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:59,680 Speaker 1: And then Lee explained to me, Les Alters taught me publicity. 1135 00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:02,760 Speaker 1: He is different generation. He didn't care anything about rock 1136 00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:05,800 Speaker 1: and roll. He were suit every day. He was a 1137 00:59:05,840 --> 00:59:09,160 Speaker 1: guy that you know, knew, Walter Winchell. He was like 1138 00:59:09,200 --> 00:59:13,000 Speaker 1: from out of a forties movie. But um, he understood 1139 00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:14,800 Speaker 1: the rock and roll was this new thing that they 1140 00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:16,520 Speaker 1: wanted to have their piece of that pie, and that 1141 00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:18,720 Speaker 1: I was his guy with the long hair to do that. 1142 00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:22,520 Speaker 1: And he explained to me that if you had a 1143 00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:24,800 Speaker 1: good story, you didn't need to ask for a favor. 1144 00:59:26,120 --> 00:59:28,560 Speaker 1: That the idea was to create good stories and that 1145 00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:31,880 Speaker 1: was this huge paradigm shiffers. So he and the other publicists, 1146 00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,320 Speaker 1: it's olders. They were all older than me, and and 1147 00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:38,600 Speaker 1: and uh and hard bitten, but they they they took 1148 00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:40,800 Speaker 1: me under their wing and they showed me. They explained 1149 00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:42,640 Speaker 1: to me how to write a press release and you know, 1150 00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:44,120 Speaker 1: how to how to do it, you know, and it 1151 00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:46,640 Speaker 1: was like it was like going to Harvard for publicity. 1152 00:59:47,200 --> 00:59:51,160 Speaker 1: Did you like it? You know? I liked that I 1153 00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:54,040 Speaker 1: had a job. I had had spent three after you know, 1154 00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:55,600 Speaker 1: I had a few months where I didn't have a job. 1155 00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:58,040 Speaker 1: So I was like, I I liked that I had 1156 00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:00,200 Speaker 1: a job. And it occurred to me after are a 1157 01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:03,560 Speaker 1: couple of months that I was good at it. And 1158 01:00:03,600 --> 01:00:05,080 Speaker 1: it was the first time I'd ever felt I was 1159 01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:06,960 Speaker 1: any good at anything. I always felt like a complete 1160 01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:09,360 Speaker 1: fraud as a As a journalist, I knew I wasn't 1161 01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:11,320 Speaker 1: really as good as the really good writers. They were 1162 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,960 Speaker 1: great writers. John Lynde was writing about rock and roll, 1163 01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:17,120 Speaker 1: then Paul Nelson. These were great writers. I knew I 1164 01:00:17,160 --> 01:00:20,040 Speaker 1: couldn't write as well as them. But I was really 1165 01:00:20,040 --> 01:00:23,800 Speaker 1: good at publicity because I was a fan and because um, 1166 01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:26,760 Speaker 1: you know, that fit my temperament better, like I said, 1167 01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:28,800 Speaker 1: being a fan instead of a critic. So within a 1168 01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:31,680 Speaker 1: pretty short amount of time I started to get, for 1169 01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:33,400 Speaker 1: the first time in my life, feeling I was good 1170 01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:36,040 Speaker 1: at something, and so I like that. So how did 1171 01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,880 Speaker 1: you end up working? Well? I did publicity for the 1172 01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:42,360 Speaker 1: for the seventy three tour, and then when they started Swansong, 1173 01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:44,840 Speaker 1: they offered me the job to be what Peter called 1174 01:00:44,840 --> 01:00:50,400 Speaker 1: his ambassador and in America, and I said, uh, well, 1175 01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,040 Speaker 1: could I have a title? He said, well, what title 1176 01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:55,520 Speaker 1: do you want? I said, I've had vice president of Swansong. 1177 01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:58,240 Speaker 1: He said fine, because there was no staff. Was he 1178 01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:01,160 Speaker 1: was president vice press or something about vice president of 1179 01:01:01,240 --> 01:01:04,800 Speaker 1: led Zeppelin's label. But yeah, they they had a good 1180 01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:07,000 Speaker 1: they liked me, you know, and and and and they 1181 01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:10,360 Speaker 1: needed somebody like in my category for for the new label. 1182 01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:13,560 Speaker 1: So they for me, were you making the money that 1183 01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:17,120 Speaker 1: would be aligned in one's brain with that title in 1184 01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:22,080 Speaker 1: that position, Well, I was making more money than I 1185 01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:24,320 Speaker 1: was making. Its salters, I think it's salters. I was 1186 01:01:24,400 --> 01:01:28,800 Speaker 1: making three hundred dollars a week. Um, this is seventy 1187 01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,840 Speaker 1: three so whatever inflation would be, you know, that's fifteen 1188 01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:34,760 Speaker 1: thousand a year. That's probably like making seventy five hundred 1189 01:01:34,840 --> 01:01:39,200 Speaker 1: thousand now, uh. And then and then I got a 1190 01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:41,480 Speaker 1: percentage of business I brought in. And the only business 1191 01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:45,120 Speaker 1: I ever brought in was Edgar and Johnny Winter, which 1192 01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:48,800 Speaker 1: was Steve Paul's clients. So maybe I was making three 1193 01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:52,120 Speaker 1: fifty a week. So then I started a Swan song 1194 01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:53,920 Speaker 1: at five hundred a week, so that was like a 1195 01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:59,440 Speaker 1: fift increase dollars a year. And I also um had 1196 01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:03,200 Speaker 1: an expand accounts, so I could take people to uh, 1197 01:02:03,240 --> 01:02:06,040 Speaker 1: you know, the fancy Italian restaurant around the corner, and 1198 01:02:06,280 --> 01:02:08,840 Speaker 1: and and they would pay for it. So that was 1199 01:02:08,880 --> 01:02:11,000 Speaker 1: a step up. And then after the first year they 1200 01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,000 Speaker 1: raised me to forty thousand dollars a year because we 1201 01:02:13,040 --> 01:02:15,720 Speaker 1: had a great first year. Bad Company record came out. 1202 01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:17,880 Speaker 1: Of course, it was the first release of Lanson was 1203 01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:22,520 Speaker 1: Bad Co number one album, number one single. So so 1204 01:02:22,680 --> 01:02:26,560 Speaker 1: you know, I was then twenty four. I was that 1205 01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:30,400 Speaker 1: was fine, you know. I was ambitious to kind of 1206 01:02:30,440 --> 01:02:32,760 Speaker 1: just be more in the business. But it was certainly 1207 01:02:33,440 --> 01:02:36,040 Speaker 1: for a guy who never had any college education. I 1208 01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:41,240 Speaker 1: suddenly was rebranded from being this failure to being this 1209 01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,480 Speaker 1: success in terms of just the way. Like my parents 1210 01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:46,640 Speaker 1: realized at a certain point when I was working for 1211 01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:48,600 Speaker 1: Zeppelin and my mother said, Danny, you ever think about 1212 01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:52,120 Speaker 1: maybe going back to college? And I said, month, did 1213 01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:55,960 Speaker 1: you know who Lie Zeppelin is? Okay, So were you 1214 01:02:56,080 --> 01:03:01,360 Speaker 1: working with the band during the famous era at the Cote, Yes, 1215 01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:04,040 Speaker 1: I was. That's why that's really where I bonded with 1216 01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:07,040 Speaker 1: I think that's why Peter Grant hired me is because 1217 01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:10,000 Speaker 1: that was in ninety three, and the story is that 1218 01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:12,120 Speaker 1: they had cash. It was the end of a tour 1219 01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:15,040 Speaker 1: and there was a lot of cash. Peter liked cash 1220 01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:18,160 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, and there was I think two thousand 1221 01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:20,480 Speaker 1: dollars in a safety deposit box of the Drake Hotel 1222 01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:23,680 Speaker 1: that disappeared, and it was front page of the newspapers, 1223 01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:26,640 Speaker 1: and I and and Peter is like, they're all freaked out. 1224 01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:29,760 Speaker 1: And Peter's freaked out, and and I said, you want 1225 01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,840 Speaker 1: me to call um? It was a guy named John Gibson, 1226 01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:34,840 Speaker 1: I think was the publicity guy at Atlantic. I said, 1227 01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:36,520 Speaker 1: you want me to call Bob Gibson. He says, no, 1228 01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:38,360 Speaker 1: I don't want anybody from Atlantic here. I want you 1229 01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:42,360 Speaker 1: to handle this. So and I had no idea that 1230 01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:44,920 Speaker 1: he would prefer me to somebody at the label, but 1231 01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:48,800 Speaker 1: to him, the label was them. And I worked for him, 1232 01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:51,280 Speaker 1: and and and and and that was the first time 1233 01:03:51,280 --> 01:03:52,760 Speaker 1: I even knew he liked me. I mean, he never 1234 01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,160 Speaker 1: gave me a compliment. You know, there were some and 1235 01:03:56,200 --> 01:03:59,360 Speaker 1: so we had to have a press conference and that 1236 01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:02,240 Speaker 1: that's really I felt that that that he kind of 1237 01:04:02,240 --> 01:04:05,640 Speaker 1: felt I handled that well enough. Yeah, some people believe 1238 01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:08,640 Speaker 1: that they stole the money themselves. Well, nobody knows. Let's 1239 01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:10,560 Speaker 1: put it this way, no one's ever was arrested for 1240 01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:14,960 Speaker 1: this crime. And uh, it's a little fishy. And then 1241 01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:17,600 Speaker 1: the question is who would they be. Would they be 1242 01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:20,480 Speaker 1: the entire band, would it just be Peter, would it 1243 01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:23,480 Speaker 1: be Peter and someone else? No one knows. What we 1244 01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:25,640 Speaker 1: know is no one was ever arrested for it. Well, 1245 01:04:25,680 --> 01:04:27,960 Speaker 1: I guess my father woke me up. Was during the summer. 1246 01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:30,480 Speaker 1: He couldn't believe the sum he read it in the papers, 1247 01:04:30,480 --> 01:04:32,800 Speaker 1: you know, this being led Zeppelin. They're staying at the 1248 01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:35,160 Speaker 1: Drake Hotel. And the famous thing was the band flew 1249 01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:39,760 Speaker 1: home almost immediately, as opposed to staying around and trying 1250 01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:42,400 Speaker 1: to help with the finding of this money. Well, I mean, 1251 01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:44,120 Speaker 1: how would a band there but I was to get 1252 01:04:44,160 --> 01:04:47,040 Speaker 1: on stage a masson Square Garden. You know they saw 1253 01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:49,160 Speaker 1: that three shows at the garden and to play a 1254 01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:52,960 Speaker 1: great concert. They are not detectives or you know, so 1255 01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:57,560 Speaker 1: of course the band flew home. Um there there Peter 1256 01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:02,120 Speaker 1: and the two. A manager of led Zeppe was named 1257 01:05:02,160 --> 01:05:04,959 Speaker 1: Richard Cole, who's to this day a pretty good friend 1258 01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:07,480 Speaker 1: of mine. The beautiful guy he was, he's he's a 1259 01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:09,640 Speaker 1: twelve step guy. He's a guy in those he's out 1260 01:05:09,640 --> 01:05:11,240 Speaker 1: of control. I remember when he used to be at 1261 01:05:11,240 --> 01:05:14,120 Speaker 1: the Rainbow every night. He was out of control, a pirate, 1262 01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:17,240 Speaker 1: scary guy. Peter's right hand guy, kind of the enforce 1263 01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:22,240 Speaker 1: your guy. And uh and the last thirty years he's like, uh, 1264 01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:26,120 Speaker 1: he got sober again. I'm not you know, this is 1265 01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:27,960 Speaker 1: he he would be the first to say this, and 1266 01:05:27,960 --> 01:05:30,360 Speaker 1: and he's what a beautiful guy. He lives, he's retired, 1267 01:05:30,400 --> 01:05:32,840 Speaker 1: he lives in in in England, I think London. I 1268 01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:37,240 Speaker 1: just mostly see we mostly communicate through Facebook. But you know, 1269 01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:40,400 Speaker 1: I don't think Richard knows and if anybody that IM 1270 01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:45,919 Speaker 1: and Peter's dead and um, I don't know, but it's 1271 01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:49,720 Speaker 1: something a little a little um. The weird thing is 1272 01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:52,000 Speaker 1: that the one was ever arrested for it, you know, 1273 01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:55,840 Speaker 1: and uh, and that only a couple of people had 1274 01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:59,920 Speaker 1: access to the to the safety deposit box, one of 1275 01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:07,320 Speaker 1: whom definitely was Peter. We're listening to my conversation with 1276 01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:12,680 Speaker 1: Danny Goldberg, recorded live at the tune In Studios in Venice, California. 1277 01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:16,240 Speaker 1: I hope you're enjoying this episode of the Bob Left 1278 01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:19,320 Speaker 1: Sets podcast. If you want to see videos, photos, and 1279 01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:22,280 Speaker 1: soundbites from Danny and our other guests as they joined 1280 01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:26,160 Speaker 1: me in the studio, visit at tune In on Twitter, Facebook, 1281 01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:30,240 Speaker 1: and Instagram. Now more of my conversation with Danny Goldberg 1282 01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:34,800 Speaker 1: on the Bob Left Sets Podcast. Okay, so you end 1283 01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:38,320 Speaker 1: up working with Led zeppelind until the band ends, right, No, No, 1284 01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:42,120 Speaker 1: I did not I work with them. Um. I started 1285 01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:45,480 Speaker 1: at Swansong in January of seventy four and I left 1286 01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:48,480 Speaker 1: in May of seventies six, and the band didn't end 1287 01:06:48,560 --> 01:06:52,919 Speaker 1: until seventy seven. Okay, so you left in seventy six 1288 01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:57,400 Speaker 1: to do what I started my own PR firm. You know, 1289 01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:01,680 Speaker 1: I had a falling out with Peter. We later made up. 1290 01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:04,480 Speaker 1: It's it's not that interesting a story. And but I 1291 01:07:04,640 --> 01:07:06,400 Speaker 1: by this time I had a reputation of I'd been 1292 01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:10,720 Speaker 1: Zeppelin's publicistem bad company, and I've been quoted in articles. 1293 01:07:10,760 --> 01:07:13,040 Speaker 1: So I started a PR company with the imaginative name 1294 01:07:13,080 --> 01:07:15,840 Speaker 1: of Danny Goldberg, Inc. And And the first client I 1295 01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:18,720 Speaker 1: got was Kiss, you know, who idolized Zeppelin and billow 1296 01:07:18,760 --> 01:07:21,240 Speaker 1: Cooin had been at somebody i'd met earlier. And I 1297 01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:24,240 Speaker 1: also very quickly got E l O, which Don Arden 1298 01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:27,000 Speaker 1: managed to Don Arden had been Peter Grant's former bloss 1299 01:07:27,040 --> 01:07:30,880 Speaker 1: and was also a legendary tough English guy. His daughter 1300 01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:35,120 Speaker 1: married Ozzy Osborne. We know here Sharon Osborne, and those 1301 01:07:35,160 --> 01:07:38,560 Speaker 1: days she was Sharon Arden, and very very good to me, 1302 01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:41,720 Speaker 1: you know, always made sure I get paid on time. Really, 1303 01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:45,520 Speaker 1: so you were at the advent of the success of 1304 01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:48,160 Speaker 1: those Well, Yolo had already had a hit seventy four 1305 01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:51,680 Speaker 1: in America. Elo, it had hits. They they had. I 1306 01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:55,640 Speaker 1: mean I think, um, they already had can't get out 1307 01:07:55,680 --> 01:07:59,800 Speaker 1: of my head. Um. The big record we had was 1308 01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:02,800 Speaker 1: I think it was called uh, God had living thing 1309 01:08:02,920 --> 01:08:06,840 Speaker 1: on it. I think it was called out of the Yeah. 1310 01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:09,120 Speaker 1: I think that was the big yellow record that I 1311 01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:12,440 Speaker 1: that I was Danny Goldberg in just you or did 1312 01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:14,560 Speaker 1: you have people working? Oh? No, I had people working 1313 01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:19,120 Speaker 1: for me. Um. I started. I started out of my apartment. 1314 01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:22,559 Speaker 1: By this time, I'd moved to West seven ninth three 1315 01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:24,240 Speaker 1: and I had a one bedroom and sort of for 1316 01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:27,799 Speaker 1: the first six months, the living room was our office, 1317 01:08:27,880 --> 01:08:30,880 Speaker 1: and actually Howard Bloom shared the office with me, and 1318 01:08:30,920 --> 01:08:33,439 Speaker 1: then he later off did his own PR firm. But 1319 01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:36,280 Speaker 1: originally we were thinking of doing it together. But but 1320 01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:38,599 Speaker 1: we're still friends. Howard and I just did a book 1321 01:08:38,600 --> 01:08:44,200 Speaker 1: event together like last year. But um we we um. 1322 01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:46,800 Speaker 1: So I had fives, I had, I had some people 1323 01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:48,439 Speaker 1: and then and then I made enough money that I 1324 01:08:48,479 --> 01:08:53,040 Speaker 1: could afford to rent offices somewhere in midtown. Uh and uh, 1325 01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:56,760 Speaker 1: you know, publicity is work intensive. It's it's a you 1326 01:08:56,840 --> 01:09:00,400 Speaker 1: need you need bodies making the phone calls to UH 1327 01:09:00,560 --> 01:09:04,040 Speaker 1: service the clients. Do you're making any money? I mean 1328 01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:07,960 Speaker 1: it was cash flow positive, you know. Um for most 1329 01:09:08,000 --> 01:09:11,240 Speaker 1: of it. Um, it was a struggle, but I got 1330 01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:13,360 Speaker 1: enough money where I ended up having also an l 1331 01:09:13,400 --> 01:09:15,960 Speaker 1: A office. I had an office in Century City, right 1332 01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:18,559 Speaker 1: down the hall from where E. L Os Jet Records was, 1333 01:09:19,200 --> 01:09:21,680 Speaker 1: And then I had an office in New York, but 1334 01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:24,000 Speaker 1: with two or three people in each in each office. 1335 01:09:24,080 --> 01:09:27,120 Speaker 1: And it was a cash business. I wasn't owning anything, 1336 01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:29,160 Speaker 1: and I wasn't building up any great savings, but I 1337 01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:32,080 Speaker 1: was making enough to pay for these rents and to 1338 01:09:32,120 --> 01:09:35,960 Speaker 1: pay salaries to these people. So then the next step 1339 01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:40,280 Speaker 1: is twentieth century Fox. No, you're so kind to have 1340 01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:42,880 Speaker 1: researched to all this, and and obviously you know, being 1341 01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:45,400 Speaker 1: around for so many years I have in the middle 1342 01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:50,040 Speaker 1: of I'm trying to remember when I did Fox. I um, Fox, 1343 01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:53,720 Speaker 1: I think was two. Yeah, that's later the big breakthrough 1344 01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:57,880 Speaker 1: coming out of So I have this PR company and 1345 01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:01,080 Speaker 1: within a year one of the most the important clients 1346 01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:05,080 Speaker 1: to me becomes Bearsville Records. And this is the second time, 1347 01:10:05,120 --> 01:10:07,320 Speaker 1: I encounter Albert gross soon, and this time I'm actually 1348 01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:10,280 Speaker 1: communicating with him on a regular basis because the guy 1349 01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:13,080 Speaker 1: that was president of his label was Paul Fishkin, and 1350 01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:16,240 Speaker 1: Paul and I just were best friends, you know, and 1351 01:10:16,280 --> 01:10:18,280 Speaker 1: Paul the minute I was doing this, looked for a 1352 01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:20,559 Speaker 1: way to get me the business and they had some 1353 01:10:20,640 --> 01:10:23,080 Speaker 1: budget for PR so I did Bears well. They had 1354 01:10:23,120 --> 01:10:25,200 Speaker 1: Todd run Gren. Their big act in those days was 1355 01:10:25,240 --> 01:10:27,880 Speaker 1: fog Hat That was their Planum act and they Jesse 1356 01:10:28,000 --> 01:10:31,439 Speaker 1: Winchester made a record while I was there, and Um 1357 01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:38,120 Speaker 1: and Paul Um at some point in seventy eight, I 1358 01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:40,479 Speaker 1: think it was seventy eight, maybe the beginning of seventy nine. 1359 01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:42,920 Speaker 1: Has a romance with Stevie Nicks, and this is at 1360 01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:47,280 Speaker 1: the peak of Rumors. They're the biggest group in the 1361 01:10:47,320 --> 01:10:50,559 Speaker 1: world and she's the lead singer and songwriter of their 1362 01:10:50,560 --> 01:10:54,040 Speaker 1: biggest hits, Rhiannon on the previous record and Dreams on 1363 01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:59,600 Speaker 1: Rumors and he introduced me to her, and uh, you know, 1364 01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:05,080 Speaker 1: would be quickly became clear to me that she was 1365 01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:08,800 Speaker 1: frustrated in terms of some of the business dynamics of 1366 01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:13,080 Speaker 1: Fleetwood Mac because she and Lindsey Buckingham had joined the 1367 01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:14,920 Speaker 1: group that had already been in existence for eight or 1368 01:11:15,000 --> 01:11:19,599 Speaker 1: nine years or least. So Fleetwood and Mac made all 1369 01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:22,479 Speaker 1: the decisions, including which songs went on the record. And 1370 01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:24,960 Speaker 1: she had written this song called Silver Springs that she 1371 01:11:25,040 --> 01:11:26,920 Speaker 1: loved that they didn't include on Rumors, and she had 1372 01:11:26,920 --> 01:11:30,800 Speaker 1: all these other songs, and I was extremely happy that 1373 01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:33,759 Speaker 1: she was so unhappy, because now I could be somebody 1374 01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:36,360 Speaker 1: who could maybe help, you know, And and Paul was 1375 01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:39,000 Speaker 1: promoting this, and so we got to know each other 1376 01:11:39,120 --> 01:11:42,400 Speaker 1: and had this idea for a Rhiannon movie. We made 1377 01:11:42,400 --> 01:11:44,960 Speaker 1: a development deal with the United Artists. Nothing ever came 1378 01:11:45,000 --> 01:11:46,799 Speaker 1: of it. But I got to be friends with Stevie 1379 01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:52,000 Speaker 1: and she's just another person who just believed in me 1380 01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:54,800 Speaker 1: when there was no particular reason for her to do so, 1381 01:11:55,040 --> 01:12:00,000 Speaker 1: based on my background. And and uh, somewhere along the line, 1382 01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:01,800 Speaker 1: Paul and I had this idea that we should start 1383 01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:05,040 Speaker 1: a label with Stevie for her solo work, because Warner 1384 01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:08,320 Speaker 1: Brothers had not signed her as an individual when she 1385 01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:11,479 Speaker 1: joined Fleetwood Mac. Fleetwood Mac had made album after album 1386 01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:13,559 Speaker 1: after album. They just seemed to change guitar players on 1387 01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:16,519 Speaker 1: every album, and they weren't that important an act to 1388 01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:18,960 Speaker 1: Warner Brothers for the first seven or eight albums, so 1389 01:12:19,040 --> 01:12:22,120 Speaker 1: there was no big push in business affairs to sign 1390 01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:25,040 Speaker 1: the new members of Fleetwood Mac. How hum, and then 1391 01:12:25,080 --> 01:12:28,679 Speaker 1: almost immediately they went from selling a hundred fifty albums 1392 01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:31,120 Speaker 1: to four million albums with this with the record called 1393 01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:35,000 Speaker 1: Fleetwood Mac that had Rhiannon on it, and they never 1394 01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:38,200 Speaker 1: signed Stevie, so she was available as a solo artist. 1395 01:12:38,680 --> 01:12:41,559 Speaker 1: So we created this label called Modern Records together Paul 1396 01:12:41,600 --> 01:12:47,280 Speaker 1: and I. Stevie had a piece of it, and and 1397 01:12:47,320 --> 01:12:51,960 Speaker 1: that the first record was Bella Donna, which Jimmy Ivan 1398 01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:56,400 Speaker 1: produced and which was number one. I think it's sold 1399 01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:58,640 Speaker 1: ten million by an now or something. So that was 1400 01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:01,840 Speaker 1: that was a big thing. And then after a few 1401 01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:04,200 Speaker 1: years I thow there were there any other records on 1402 01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:07,840 Speaker 1: Modern Records. Nothing successful. We put out a couple of 1403 01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:10,000 Speaker 1: other records. It was a friend of Paul's named Joey 1404 01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,760 Speaker 1: Wilson from Philly that we put out that flopped. And 1405 01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:15,640 Speaker 1: there was a reggae act called Jamala that I was 1406 01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:19,639 Speaker 1: enthusiastic about that also flopped. Those with the other artists 1407 01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:23,760 Speaker 1: on Modern Um it went through Atlantic. We made our 1408 01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:26,479 Speaker 1: deal with Doug Morris who was just started running at Go, 1409 01:13:26,720 --> 01:13:28,680 Speaker 1: which was a division of Atlantic, and it was a 1410 01:13:28,680 --> 01:13:31,920 Speaker 1: big deal for him and big deal for us. Uh. 1411 01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:34,479 Speaker 1: And there's a photo I have somewhere of me, Doug Stevie, 1412 01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:38,280 Speaker 1: Jimmy Ivan and Paul right after Belladonna became number one, 1413 01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:42,360 Speaker 1: and it was a moment for all of us, you know. Um. 1414 01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:45,880 Speaker 1: So then later on, after I sold my half of that, 1415 01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:50,000 Speaker 1: I started some other label UH with A and M 1416 01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:53,200 Speaker 1: that that was not particularly successful, called Gold Mountain, which 1417 01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:55,519 Speaker 1: I then later used as the name of management company. 1418 01:13:56,000 --> 01:13:58,479 Speaker 1: And during that period of A and M, I got 1419 01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:01,559 Speaker 1: this offer to be a soundtrack slim for twenty century Fox. 1420 01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:05,400 Speaker 1: So I spent the year it was right after Flash 1421 01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:07,599 Speaker 1: Dance and all the movie studios to oh, we need 1422 01:14:07,640 --> 01:14:11,920 Speaker 1: somebody who understands MTV and stuff to do soundtracks, you know, 1423 01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:14,920 Speaker 1: because that's a part of marketing films. So I had 1424 01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:16,760 Speaker 1: that sort of as a part time thing. I had 1425 01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:20,080 Speaker 1: an office at Fox and an office UH at A 1426 01:14:20,160 --> 01:14:23,639 Speaker 1: and M for um Gold Mountain, just just for a year. 1427 01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:26,000 Speaker 1: But my name is on some you know, there's there's 1428 01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:28,320 Speaker 1: some movies my name is on. And then for about 1429 01:14:28,360 --> 01:14:30,080 Speaker 1: a year after that, I did a few other movies. 1430 01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:32,840 Speaker 1: The most famous credit I have as music supervisor of 1431 01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:37,760 Speaker 1: Dirty Dancing. But you know it was, well, you know 1432 01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:41,120 Speaker 1: Jimmy Ivan takes Jimmy Iron or takes all the credit 1433 01:14:41,200 --> 01:14:47,200 Speaker 1: on that. Does he deserve it? He definitely deserves some 1434 01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:50,320 Speaker 1: of the credit. Um and and he and I have 1435 01:14:50,479 --> 01:14:53,640 Speaker 1: not don't have a different narrative about this. We've you know, 1436 01:14:53,680 --> 01:14:59,040 Speaker 1: this is come up? I was, can is this? Can 1437 01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:04,280 Speaker 1: one use four her words on this course? So the 1438 01:15:04,320 --> 01:15:07,719 Speaker 1: director of Dirty Dancing was named Emil Ordealino. He's passed 1439 01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:11,000 Speaker 1: away one of the loveliest people I've ever met and 1440 01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:13,679 Speaker 1: and couldn't have been easier to work with, and had 1441 01:15:13,720 --> 01:15:16,800 Speaker 1: almost no interest in the music. So in terms of 1442 01:15:16,800 --> 01:15:19,600 Speaker 1: picking all the oldies that are in the movie and 1443 01:15:19,760 --> 01:15:21,840 Speaker 1: Be My Baby and whatever is I I did that 1444 01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:23,400 Speaker 1: and it was the easiest thing in the world to do. 1445 01:15:23,479 --> 01:15:25,680 Speaker 1: You just pick all your favorite old songs that there 1446 01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:27,640 Speaker 1: hadn't been a zillion of these other movies. It was 1447 01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:29,960 Speaker 1: like low hanging fruit and it was not hard to 1448 01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:32,640 Speaker 1: license them. And then I and then they needed some 1449 01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:36,799 Speaker 1: original material, and I suggested and I brought in Michael Lloyd, 1450 01:15:36,920 --> 01:15:39,160 Speaker 1: who was a friend of mine. I don't know how 1451 01:15:39,160 --> 01:15:40,679 Speaker 1: we got to know each other. It's from a different 1452 01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:42,760 Speaker 1: kind of music. He produced like Debbie Boone, You Like 1453 01:15:42,880 --> 01:15:45,280 Speaker 1: My Life a pop guy, but I just liked them 1454 01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:47,720 Speaker 1: and I knew that needed a pop guy. But there 1455 01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:50,040 Speaker 1: was one of the producers of the film, and she 1456 01:15:50,120 --> 01:15:52,120 Speaker 1: may still be alive. I don't want to embarrass anybody, 1457 01:15:52,120 --> 01:15:55,360 Speaker 1: but she very um. They was so frustrated that we 1458 01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:58,759 Speaker 1: didn't have a record deal yet, because you have to remember, 1459 01:15:58,840 --> 01:16:01,120 Speaker 1: nobody knew Dirty Dance Thing was going to be a hit. 1460 01:16:01,280 --> 01:16:04,360 Speaker 1: It was an unknown director with an unknown cast, with 1461 01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:08,360 Speaker 1: a tiny little studio called Vesturan that was known as 1462 01:16:08,360 --> 01:16:10,639 Speaker 1: a home video company that had made some money selling 1463 01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:13,200 Speaker 1: Jane Fonda videos. So they decided to make a movie. 1464 01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:16,200 Speaker 1: It was the least likely film based on the people 1465 01:16:16,240 --> 01:16:21,320 Speaker 1: involved in UM, I forget who was The guy who 1466 01:16:21,320 --> 01:16:23,320 Speaker 1: brought me on was named Steve Ruther. I don't know 1467 01:16:23,360 --> 01:16:26,559 Speaker 1: what became of him. So one of the producers was 1468 01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:31,840 Speaker 1: very combative and pushy, and she called my assistant at 1469 01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:37,720 Speaker 1: the time, Lorie Levy, a count and uh so I 1470 01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:40,920 Speaker 1: just uh said, I can't deal with this. I had 1471 01:16:40,920 --> 01:16:43,320 Speaker 1: already gotten so I made a deal. It was the 1472 01:16:43,360 --> 01:16:47,320 Speaker 1: worst business decision in my life. I had gotten fifty fee, 1473 01:16:47,360 --> 01:16:49,720 Speaker 1: which was a lot of money to be a music supervisor, 1474 01:16:49,760 --> 01:16:52,639 Speaker 1: and I had a couple of points on a record, 1475 01:16:52,680 --> 01:16:56,559 Speaker 1: but there was no record deal. So I just made 1476 01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:58,760 Speaker 1: a deal with Steve Ruther. I said, look, I want 1477 01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:01,360 Speaker 1: to keep the credit. I think there was an extra 1478 01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:03,519 Speaker 1: ten or fifteen thousand. You know, the fee was paid 1479 01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:06,160 Speaker 1: in installments, compaying me the rest of my fee. I 1480 01:17:06,200 --> 01:17:09,000 Speaker 1: don't need a royalty. I just need never to talk 1481 01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:12,480 Speaker 1: to this woman again, who who? Because you know, insulted 1482 01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:15,800 Speaker 1: my assistant. And and then they brought in Jimmy Einer, 1483 01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:18,160 Speaker 1: who did oversee the recording of the Hits. There's no 1484 01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:21,040 Speaker 1: question about it. Michael Lloyd produced the Hits. I was 1485 01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:23,840 Speaker 1: so the producer I've writ but Jimmy Einer in terms 1486 01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:26,280 Speaker 1: of the songwriting and A and R in it, He 1487 01:17:26,439 --> 01:17:28,639 Speaker 1: and R had they hit singles that made that that 1488 01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:32,360 Speaker 1: record what it was as a phenomenon. So he but 1489 01:17:32,360 --> 01:17:34,680 Speaker 1: but in terms of the music that you hear when 1490 01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:37,880 Speaker 1: you're watching the movie, that's why they kept my credit 1491 01:17:37,920 --> 01:17:40,720 Speaker 1: because so so we played different roles in it, and 1492 01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:42,719 Speaker 1: he made a lot more money from it than I didn't. 1493 01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:45,240 Speaker 1: He deserve to because he he oversaw the production of 1494 01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:47,400 Speaker 1: the hit center of the hit songs, and then you 1495 01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:50,080 Speaker 1: decided to become a manager. I always wanted to be 1496 01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:52,400 Speaker 1: a manager from the time I worked for Peter Grant. 1497 01:17:53,080 --> 01:17:55,519 Speaker 1: I just thought that was the job for me. It 1498 01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:58,720 Speaker 1: was he was so powerful the record company did what 1499 01:17:58,800 --> 01:18:01,120 Speaker 1: he said. He was the close this person to the band. 1500 01:18:01,520 --> 01:18:03,639 Speaker 1: He made a percentage, so he was making what seemed 1501 01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:06,160 Speaker 1: to me like so much more money than than than 1502 01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:08,960 Speaker 1: anything that was accessible to me. So I had wanted 1503 01:18:08,960 --> 01:18:11,040 Speaker 1: to be a manager ever since leaving Zeppelin, but it 1504 01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:12,840 Speaker 1: was hard for me to convince people to let me 1505 01:18:12,880 --> 01:18:15,439 Speaker 1: be a manager. I had this one band called the 1506 01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:17,880 Speaker 1: Mink Deville that I was very proud to work with, 1507 01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:21,080 Speaker 1: a great band, but Willie became a junkie. You were 1508 01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:24,559 Speaker 1: the manager for their first record, first two records, which 1509 01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:26,639 Speaker 1: were the best record, Yeah, which is the first two records. 1510 01:18:27,160 --> 01:18:29,880 Speaker 1: H Van Edmonds was a former rock writer who's a 1511 01:18:29,920 --> 01:18:33,240 Speaker 1: and R guide Capital would signed them and he suggested 1512 01:18:33,280 --> 01:18:34,880 Speaker 1: I do it, and and it was it was an 1513 01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:36,920 Speaker 1: interesting you know, they were great, I mean they were 1514 01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:39,320 Speaker 1: incredible live act. Willie Deville is one of the most 1515 01:18:39,360 --> 01:18:42,920 Speaker 1: compelling live performers but you know, a little self destructive, 1516 01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:45,519 Speaker 1: so we couldn't really break them, even though again those 1517 01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:47,719 Speaker 1: records hold up. And there's a song on the first 1518 01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:49,960 Speaker 1: Mink Deville record called Mixed Up Shook Up Girl that 1519 01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:53,360 Speaker 1: someday someone's gonna have a hit with. It's such a 1520 01:18:53,360 --> 01:18:56,679 Speaker 1: great song. And uh, Willie wrote that song. He didn't 1521 01:18:56,680 --> 01:18:59,600 Speaker 1: write Cadillac Walk. Moon Martin wrote Cadillac Walk, which was 1522 01:18:59,640 --> 01:19:03,120 Speaker 1: the A O. R track, but Willie wrote Mixed Up 1523 01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:06,280 Speaker 1: Shook Up Girl. But you know, that flopped, and I 1524 01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:08,400 Speaker 1: couldn't get anyone to the WOMY as a manager, so 1525 01:19:08,439 --> 01:19:11,760 Speaker 1: I started, you know, I tried different things, and then 1526 01:19:11,800 --> 01:19:16,160 Speaker 1: finally after the Stevie Nicks success in the association with that, 1527 01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:22,240 Speaker 1: I somehow had enough whatever it is, to convince people 1528 01:19:22,280 --> 01:19:24,360 Speaker 1: to let me be a manager. And the first client 1529 01:19:24,439 --> 01:19:29,599 Speaker 1: I had after Gold Mountain Label didn't work, I turned 1530 01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:31,600 Speaker 1: it into Gold Mountain Management. And the first client of 1531 01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:34,639 Speaker 1: Gold Mountain Management was Belinda Carlisle, right after she left 1532 01:19:34,640 --> 01:19:38,240 Speaker 1: the Go Goes. I think her lawyer suggested it might 1533 01:19:38,280 --> 01:19:42,479 Speaker 1: have been Michael Lloyd um or maybe that's how I 1534 01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:46,040 Speaker 1: met Michael Lloyd. Yeah, because that was before I don't 1535 01:19:46,040 --> 01:19:50,320 Speaker 1: know John Mason was her lawyer. Um, she wasn't you know. 1536 01:19:51,080 --> 01:19:54,280 Speaker 1: It wasn't like a huge competition at that time to 1537 01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:56,840 Speaker 1: get Bull into Carlisle. But I was excited to get 1538 01:19:56,840 --> 01:20:00,160 Speaker 1: Bull into Carlisle. And because you know I I was 1539 01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:04,720 Speaker 1: a Go Goes fan and she was the singer and 1540 01:20:04,720 --> 01:20:07,680 Speaker 1: and uh, and I heard this song Man about You, 1541 01:20:07,720 --> 01:20:09,920 Speaker 1: which just I wasn't sure it was a hit. I'm 1542 01:20:09,960 --> 01:20:11,680 Speaker 1: not one of those guys that can always predict to him. 1543 01:20:11,680 --> 01:20:13,960 Speaker 1: But it sounded to me like a lot like a 1544 01:20:14,040 --> 01:20:16,840 Speaker 1: great Go Go song, you know it's like So she 1545 01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:20,560 Speaker 1: was the first client in Bonnie Rate was the second client. 1546 01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:27,360 Speaker 1: Bonny I had met um some years in the late seventies. Um, 1547 01:20:27,479 --> 01:20:32,160 Speaker 1: when I had the PR company, one of my clients 1548 01:20:32,560 --> 01:20:37,880 Speaker 1: was a band called Orleans. And then Orleans broke up 1549 01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:42,840 Speaker 1: and John Hole, who was the lead guitar player, Um 1550 01:20:42,880 --> 01:20:46,000 Speaker 1: it was a social friend of mine and he made 1551 01:20:46,000 --> 01:20:49,640 Speaker 1: a solo deal with Electra and so he hired me 1552 01:20:49,680 --> 01:20:51,960 Speaker 1: to be the publicist on his solo records. So his 1553 01:20:52,000 --> 01:20:54,400 Speaker 1: solo record flopped. But in the middle of this was 1554 01:20:54,439 --> 01:20:57,280 Speaker 1: seventy eight. He said, look, I want you to help 1555 01:20:57,280 --> 01:20:59,800 Speaker 1: me publicize this other thing I'm doing and he ex 1556 01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:02,759 Speaker 1: Ai'm to me why he was against the nuclear power 1557 01:21:02,800 --> 01:21:07,920 Speaker 1: plants because of the environmental hazard. The radiation could cause 1558 01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:10,519 Speaker 1: cancer and there could be a meltdown. And this was 1559 01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:14,479 Speaker 1: the same period of time Karen Silkwood had had the 1560 01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:18,800 Speaker 1: subject of a huge Rolling Stone article. She had uncovered 1561 01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:21,000 Speaker 1: some problems in the nuclear power plant, and then she 1562 01:21:21,080 --> 01:21:26,839 Speaker 1: mysteriously died. And so we did a press conference whereas 1563 01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:30,880 Speaker 1: artists United against Nuclear Energy or something, and the press 1564 01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:35,160 Speaker 1: conference with James Taylor, Carly Simon, Bonnie Rate and John Hall. 1565 01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:41,360 Speaker 1: And then not long thereafter, there was an accident at 1566 01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:44,400 Speaker 1: the nuclear power plant at Three Mile Island in Pennsylvania, 1567 01:21:44,479 --> 01:21:47,639 Speaker 1: and it became front page news. This Jimmy Carter was president. 1568 01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:50,800 Speaker 1: This was before the hostages were taken in Iran, which 1569 01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:54,240 Speaker 1: wiped everything off the front pages. During this window of time, 1570 01:21:54,560 --> 01:21:58,360 Speaker 1: nuclear power was like a big issue. And and so 1571 01:21:58,720 --> 01:22:00,680 Speaker 1: John Hall then calls me and he says, look, we're 1572 01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:03,200 Speaker 1: gonna now it's this big issue. We're going to these concerts. 1573 01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:07,280 Speaker 1: And they did concerts at Madison Square Garden and Jackson 1574 01:22:07,320 --> 01:22:09,640 Speaker 1: Brown joined the Fray and this is where I met 1575 01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:12,479 Speaker 1: Jackson And then for the last two nights of those 1576 01:22:12,520 --> 01:22:15,120 Speaker 1: concerts Springsteen headlines. So there were five nights at the 1577 01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:18,160 Speaker 1: Garden and out of it. Uh And I had this 1578 01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:21,880 Speaker 1: notion that we should make a movie UH that was 1579 01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:25,080 Speaker 1: released by Warner Brothers called No Nukes that I end 1580 01:22:25,240 --> 01:22:29,240 Speaker 1: myself and a friend of mine ended up directing and producing. UH. 1581 01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:32,240 Speaker 1: So through that experience, I got to know Bonnie and 1582 01:22:32,280 --> 01:22:34,720 Speaker 1: I loved Bonnie Rate. And then it occurred, and then 1583 01:22:34,760 --> 01:22:37,439 Speaker 1: by this time, I just she was kind of going 1584 01:22:37,439 --> 01:22:40,720 Speaker 1: through a down period in her career. Warner Brothers was 1585 01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:43,760 Speaker 1: about to drop her, and she had been around, you know, 1586 01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:46,120 Speaker 1: she was close to forty, and it was considered somebody 1587 01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:48,479 Speaker 1: that just had her shot and didn't make it, whereas 1588 01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:51,280 Speaker 1: Linda Ronstad doing some of the same kind of thing, 1589 01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:54,360 Speaker 1: had become the big star. And I just couldn't believe 1590 01:22:54,400 --> 01:22:57,240 Speaker 1: that Bonnie Rate couldn't do. I didn't know she was 1591 01:22:57,280 --> 01:22:58,960 Speaker 1: going to be as successful as she became, but I 1592 01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:03,880 Speaker 1: knew she was great, and so UM I I called her, 1593 01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:06,240 Speaker 1: and she had had the same manager for her whole career, 1594 01:23:06,280 --> 01:23:10,360 Speaker 1: and I felt it was time. She was at a 1595 01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:13,600 Speaker 1: was Dick Waterman and and and it was at a 1596 01:23:13,640 --> 01:23:19,840 Speaker 1: dead end, and she came with me and I I 1597 01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:21,800 Speaker 1: think I called her. I think I said, yeah, I 1598 01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:24,479 Speaker 1: think I called her and pitched her. You know, but 1599 01:23:24,560 --> 01:23:26,519 Speaker 1: we had We've gotten to know each other pretty well 1600 01:23:26,560 --> 01:23:29,559 Speaker 1: through the Nonwkes experience, and I and I knew she 1601 01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:32,800 Speaker 1: was struggling, you know, and I said, I can help, 1602 01:23:32,880 --> 01:23:34,680 Speaker 1: you know, and and and I brought in a guy 1603 01:23:34,720 --> 01:23:38,280 Speaker 1: named Ron Stone, who became part of Gold Mountain and 1604 01:23:38,400 --> 01:23:42,000 Speaker 1: so appropriately on all of those records, it says management 1605 01:23:42,040 --> 01:23:45,720 Speaker 1: Danny Goldberg and Ron Stone, and we um, you know, 1606 01:23:45,840 --> 01:23:48,759 Speaker 1: she got sober just at that time, and she wrote 1607 01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:50,960 Speaker 1: that song Nick of Time, and I remember the cassette 1608 01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:54,760 Speaker 1: of it in my car, the demo of it, and uh, 1609 01:23:55,120 --> 01:23:57,439 Speaker 1: you know, talking about watching her parents age, and I 1610 01:23:57,560 --> 01:24:00,439 Speaker 1: just tear it up, and you know, knew it was 1611 01:24:00,479 --> 01:24:03,680 Speaker 1: great again. We got very lucky with the planets lined up. 1612 01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:05,760 Speaker 1: V H one was just starting and suddenly there was 1613 01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:09,360 Speaker 1: an exposure vehicle for somebody like Bonnie Raid and capital 1614 01:24:09,439 --> 01:24:11,559 Speaker 1: was cold, so they paid more attention to her than 1615 01:24:11,600 --> 01:24:15,320 Speaker 1: they otherwise would have, and uh, fourteen labels turned her down. 1616 01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:17,720 Speaker 1: I went to everybody, Jerry Moss, Doug Morris, all the 1617 01:24:17,720 --> 01:24:19,559 Speaker 1: people I knew in the business that she's too old. 1618 01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:22,320 Speaker 1: And then Joe Smith, who had a sentimental attachment to 1619 01:24:22,360 --> 01:24:24,920 Speaker 1: her from having worked with her Warner brothers and having 1620 01:24:25,360 --> 01:24:28,160 Speaker 1: nothing else at Capital, gave us what was a low 1621 01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:30,280 Speaker 1: ball deal, but it was fine out of that cam 1622 01:24:30,320 --> 01:24:33,519 Speaker 1: nick of time and that one the Grammy, and then 1623 01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:36,439 Speaker 1: I was suddenly a successful manager. And then who were 1624 01:24:36,439 --> 01:24:41,720 Speaker 1: the acts to follow? Uh? Well, the biggest one was Nirvana? Right? 1625 01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:45,200 Speaker 1: But before Nirvana? Who else did we have? Oh? Goodness? 1626 01:24:45,240 --> 01:24:49,280 Speaker 1: I mean I I had a gold Mountain, became a 1627 01:24:49,400 --> 01:24:51,280 Speaker 1: certainly a bigger company than the one I have now. 1628 01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:52,880 Speaker 1: I think we had like thirty five people there. We 1629 01:24:52,920 --> 01:24:55,040 Speaker 1: had a number of different artists. We had Bela Fleck, 1630 01:24:55,200 --> 01:24:58,240 Speaker 1: we had Sheena Easton, I had I brought in a 1631 01:24:58,280 --> 01:25:00,320 Speaker 1: lot of co managers, So I was com aage with 1632 01:25:00,320 --> 01:25:02,560 Speaker 1: a lot of different people to create kind of a 1633 01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:06,320 Speaker 1: home for for different managers. We had some rock bands 1634 01:25:06,360 --> 01:25:09,519 Speaker 1: that didn't make it that they got played on pirate radio, 1635 01:25:10,400 --> 01:25:13,120 Speaker 1: you know, a bang tango. And the whole thing was 1636 01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:15,679 Speaker 1: if you could get the record deal and a publishing deal, 1637 01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:17,479 Speaker 1: you get a commission on the record advance, you get 1638 01:25:17,479 --> 01:25:20,120 Speaker 1: a commission on the publishing advance, and then you've made 1639 01:25:20,160 --> 01:25:22,320 Speaker 1: your forty or fifty grand as a manager and then 1640 01:25:22,320 --> 01:25:24,000 Speaker 1: you hope it's successful. So I had a lot of 1641 01:25:24,240 --> 01:25:27,200 Speaker 1: several of those that didn't make it. Had Andy Taylor 1642 01:25:27,439 --> 01:25:31,000 Speaker 1: from Duran Duran solo deal, Steve Jones from the Sex 1643 01:25:31,040 --> 01:25:34,920 Speaker 1: Pistols solo deal, my old friend Michael Dabar, you know, 1644 01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:37,439 Speaker 1: I worked with on various records, still still one of 1645 01:25:37,479 --> 01:25:41,320 Speaker 1: my best friends. Um. But in terms of successful artists 1646 01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:45,880 Speaker 1: other than Bonnie and Belinda Uh, the Almond brothers were 1647 01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:48,280 Speaker 1: client for several years. Then I was able to help 1648 01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:50,000 Speaker 1: them get back together again, and that was really one 1649 01:25:50,040 --> 01:25:53,880 Speaker 1: of the great things of my career was to be 1650 01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:56,160 Speaker 1: able to work with them for a few years. And 1651 01:25:56,200 --> 01:26:00,400 Speaker 1: then I had this realization that there was this younger 1652 01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:02,920 Speaker 1: thing happening with punk rock, and then I didn't really 1653 01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:07,600 Speaker 1: understand it. So I hired m John Silva, who was 1654 01:26:08,960 --> 01:26:11,160 Speaker 1: you know, so I don't remember how I met Silva, 1655 01:26:11,240 --> 01:26:14,880 Speaker 1: but he Um, I just knew I needed someone in 1656 01:26:14,880 --> 01:26:17,160 Speaker 1: that category. And he had a House of Freaks and 1657 01:26:17,880 --> 01:26:21,639 Speaker 1: Red Cross and House the Freaks had acoustic acoustic guitars, 1658 01:26:21,680 --> 01:26:24,040 Speaker 1: and I always liked folk music and I was so 1659 01:26:24,240 --> 01:26:27,240 Speaker 1: not connected to the eighties punk world. But I figure 1660 01:26:27,240 --> 01:26:29,600 Speaker 1: I could kind of get what this was, and he 1661 01:26:29,680 --> 01:26:32,200 Speaker 1: had this great work ethic and he came, you know, 1662 01:26:32,240 --> 01:26:34,040 Speaker 1: and we decided we got to go and try to 1663 01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:37,200 Speaker 1: sign some people and the big Within about six months 1664 01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:40,640 Speaker 1: we signed Sonic Youth, which was a big deal in 1665 01:26:40,680 --> 01:26:43,920 Speaker 1: the punk subculture for good reason. They're great band and 1666 01:26:44,000 --> 01:26:48,240 Speaker 1: great tastemakers. And then through Sonic Youth met Nirvana, and 1667 01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:50,000 Speaker 1: did you know Tirvana was going to blow up to 1668 01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:54,559 Speaker 1: the degree it did? No, No, nobody knew. I knew 1669 01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:59,840 Speaker 1: that I trusted Thurston More and Kim Gordon of Sonic 1670 01:26:59,880 --> 01:27:03,080 Speaker 1: you that that they were they they they had the 1671 01:27:03,160 --> 01:27:06,160 Speaker 1: jeweler's eye for talent and that idiom so many of 1672 01:27:06,200 --> 01:27:09,679 Speaker 1: the artists that were developing reputations had started as opening 1673 01:27:09,680 --> 01:27:12,080 Speaker 1: access on a Youth based on them just hearing some 1674 01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:16,559 Speaker 1: seven inch So I signed them totally based on the 1675 01:27:16,560 --> 01:27:20,880 Speaker 1: fact that Sonic Youth like them, and uh, you know, 1676 01:27:20,960 --> 01:27:23,920 Speaker 1: we signed them to Geffen, the imprint of Geffen called 1677 01:27:23,960 --> 01:27:27,040 Speaker 1: d g C that had Sonic Youth already. Gary Gersh 1678 01:27:27,160 --> 01:27:29,840 Speaker 1: was the and R a guy for both. And then 1679 01:27:29,920 --> 01:27:32,160 Speaker 1: I didn't really know until I saw the band live 1680 01:27:32,320 --> 01:27:34,400 Speaker 1: that that they were going to be important to me. 1681 01:27:34,560 --> 01:27:36,640 Speaker 1: They had already. We've been managing them for months and 1682 01:27:36,640 --> 01:27:39,439 Speaker 1: I've never seen them, which was a common thing for 1683 01:27:39,479 --> 01:27:41,280 Speaker 1: me in those days. You know, it was a bigger company. 1684 01:27:41,280 --> 01:27:43,400 Speaker 1: And I saw them at the palace they opened for 1685 01:27:43,439 --> 01:27:49,240 Speaker 1: Dinosaur Jr. And I was blown away. You know, bye 1686 01:27:49,360 --> 01:27:51,559 Speaker 1: bye what this before never Mind came out, But they 1687 01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:56,719 Speaker 1: already were working on never Mind, and Uh, seeing this 1688 01:27:56,840 --> 01:27:59,679 Speaker 1: way he connected with an audience is when I realized, 1689 01:27:59,680 --> 01:28:01,719 Speaker 1: oh my god, this is like a much bigger deal 1690 01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:04,000 Speaker 1: than I thought it was. And I went from being 1691 01:28:04,040 --> 01:28:07,320 Speaker 1: kind of a tertiary priority for me within the company 1692 01:28:07,360 --> 01:28:09,479 Speaker 1: to like one of the main things I was thinking about. 1693 01:28:09,560 --> 01:28:12,160 Speaker 1: You know. So by the time the record came out, 1694 01:28:12,280 --> 01:28:16,320 Speaker 1: I was like totally focused on it. But when we 1695 01:28:16,360 --> 01:28:18,360 Speaker 1: first signed them, they were just one of a zillion 1696 01:28:18,360 --> 01:28:24,160 Speaker 1: things that we were working on. We'll pause here for 1697 01:28:24,200 --> 01:28:26,840 Speaker 1: a weeve moment and get right back to my conversation 1698 01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:32,880 Speaker 1: with Danny Goldberg. For those not in the know, I'm 1699 01:28:32,920 --> 01:28:35,760 Speaker 1: primarily a writer. You can go to left sets dot 1700 01:28:35,800 --> 01:28:38,720 Speaker 1: com and sign up for the newsletter or read the 1701 01:28:38,880 --> 01:28:42,440 Speaker 1: archive for past history. In addition to following my commentary 1702 01:28:42,439 --> 01:28:45,000 Speaker 1: on music business in the world at large, will be 1703 01:28:45,000 --> 01:28:47,200 Speaker 1: the first to find out, we published a new episode 1704 01:28:47,200 --> 01:28:50,240 Speaker 1: of the podcast. Go to left sets dot com and 1705 01:28:50,280 --> 01:28:54,000 Speaker 1: sign up for the newsletter. I know you'll like it. Now, 1706 01:28:54,240 --> 01:28:57,400 Speaker 1: let's return to my conversation with Danny Goldberg, recorded at 1707 01:28:57,400 --> 01:29:02,519 Speaker 1: the tune In Studios in Venice, California. Looking back at 1708 01:29:02,560 --> 01:29:05,880 Speaker 1: this point in time, Kurt Cobain ultimately commits suicide. Is 1709 01:29:05,960 --> 01:29:08,360 Speaker 1: there anything that you were the team could have done 1710 01:29:08,400 --> 01:29:15,120 Speaker 1: differently that might have prevented that? Well, Um, obviously the 1711 01:29:15,200 --> 01:29:19,880 Speaker 1: only honest answer is I don't know. Um. It's I've 1712 01:29:19,960 --> 01:29:23,200 Speaker 1: just finishing a book about him that's going to come 1713 01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:25,720 Speaker 1: out in the spring, and I've been thinking about this 1714 01:29:25,800 --> 01:29:28,920 Speaker 1: a lot, and uh, I just don't know what to 1715 01:29:28,960 --> 01:29:32,360 Speaker 1: say about that. I mean, um, we did a couple 1716 01:29:32,400 --> 01:29:34,040 Speaker 1: of it. I was part of personally, part of a 1717 01:29:34,040 --> 01:29:37,800 Speaker 1: couple of interventions to get him off of heroin. You know, 1718 01:29:38,000 --> 01:29:41,160 Speaker 1: I certainly feel, um, it's better for people not to 1719 01:29:41,160 --> 01:29:44,320 Speaker 1: be junkies, and that that's a if there's one lesson 1720 01:29:44,360 --> 01:29:46,879 Speaker 1: that I already felt it was bad to be a junkie, 1721 01:29:46,880 --> 01:29:51,200 Speaker 1: and I still do. Um. I uh, you know, um, 1722 01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:54,800 Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of people kill themselves every year, and 1723 01:29:55,640 --> 01:29:58,400 Speaker 1: as far as I've been able to find out there's 1724 01:29:58,439 --> 01:30:03,680 Speaker 1: no therapists or priests or yogis who the philosophers who 1725 01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:08,479 Speaker 1: know how to prevent it. Um. You know, you do 1726 01:30:08,520 --> 01:30:12,120 Speaker 1: everything you can and pray, and some people just kill themselves. 1727 01:30:12,160 --> 01:30:14,160 Speaker 1: You know. It's It's one of the mysteries of of life, 1728 01:30:14,200 --> 01:30:18,280 Speaker 1: I think. I mean, it's just I think fifty Americans 1729 01:30:18,280 --> 01:30:23,320 Speaker 1: a year killed themselves. So, uh, you don't think that 1730 01:30:23,400 --> 01:30:25,960 Speaker 1: maybe he should have been pulled off the road earlier. 1731 01:30:26,200 --> 01:30:28,719 Speaker 1: He was not on the road much. Nirvana did very 1732 01:30:28,720 --> 01:30:34,000 Speaker 1: little touring, um the last the last year. Um. You know, 1733 01:30:34,520 --> 01:30:38,360 Speaker 1: he certainly didn't kill himself on the road. Um. And 1734 01:30:38,360 --> 01:30:41,760 Speaker 1: and he had complete control over every decision. I mean 1735 01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:45,519 Speaker 1: he you know, he didn't spend a lot of money, 1736 01:30:45,600 --> 01:30:49,800 Speaker 1: so Kurt was financially independent right away. Um. And they 1737 01:30:49,800 --> 01:30:55,000 Speaker 1: didn't do much touring. They did I think shows, you know, 1738 01:30:55,040 --> 01:30:58,680 Speaker 1: the the you know, the last the last year. And 1739 01:30:58,800 --> 01:31:02,320 Speaker 1: was Courtney loved an influence in his decision? Do you think? 1740 01:31:04,200 --> 01:31:06,080 Speaker 1: You know, Cortney is a friend of mine and someone 1741 01:31:06,160 --> 01:31:09,640 Speaker 1: that I also worked with and who I really admire, 1742 01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:15,000 Speaker 1: complicated person like anybody else. When you know, again, I 1743 01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:17,120 Speaker 1: think some of these hard drugs are just really bad 1744 01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:19,320 Speaker 1: for human beings, and they had a bad effect on 1745 01:31:19,439 --> 01:31:21,559 Speaker 1: each of them when they did them, and on almost 1746 01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:25,960 Speaker 1: most people who do them. But um, you know, I 1747 01:31:26,000 --> 01:31:29,200 Speaker 1: think the main thing is, uh, some people are prone 1748 01:31:29,240 --> 01:31:31,679 Speaker 1: to depression. Some people can deal with it, some can't. 1749 01:31:31,800 --> 01:31:35,720 Speaker 1: Some some people go into twelve step programs and you know, 1750 01:31:36,680 --> 01:31:40,839 Speaker 1: have some don't take to it, you know. Uh. John Coltrane, 1751 01:31:40,920 --> 01:31:44,519 Speaker 1: I think just stopped doing heroin through willpower, you know, 1752 01:31:44,600 --> 01:31:48,840 Speaker 1: and became a I've never quite understood. He was certainly 1753 01:31:48,880 --> 01:31:56,280 Speaker 1: into various Eastern religions, you know. Um, But you know, 1754 01:31:56,439 --> 01:31:59,360 Speaker 1: I just don't think anybody knows why people kill themselves. 1755 01:31:59,400 --> 01:32:02,840 Speaker 1: You know, I think that we know what some of 1756 01:32:02,840 --> 01:32:04,880 Speaker 1: the things increased the likelihood. But there were people who 1757 01:32:04,880 --> 01:32:07,280 Speaker 1: were junkies don't kill themselves, or people who were depressive, 1758 01:32:07,360 --> 01:32:09,400 Speaker 1: they don't kill themselves. There are people who have relatives 1759 01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:14,000 Speaker 1: in their family who who committed suicide who don't kill themselves. 1760 01:32:14,040 --> 01:32:16,160 Speaker 1: But you know, all those things increased the likelihood of it. 1761 01:32:16,840 --> 01:32:20,680 Speaker 1: So how did you find out? Uh? Rosemary Carroll, who 1762 01:32:20,760 --> 01:32:26,519 Speaker 1: was my my wife at the time and mother of 1763 01:32:26,560 --> 01:32:32,200 Speaker 1: my children, you know, was was also the lawyer for um. 1764 01:32:32,320 --> 01:32:35,400 Speaker 1: She's a music business lawyer. And she was the lawyer 1765 01:32:35,479 --> 01:32:40,680 Speaker 1: for by that time, both Kurt and Courtney. And she 1766 01:32:40,800 --> 01:32:43,760 Speaker 1: called me. I was Atlantic Records by this time. You know, 1767 01:32:43,840 --> 01:32:48,439 Speaker 1: I left the management company to go work for Atlantic. Um. 1768 01:32:48,479 --> 01:32:50,599 Speaker 1: You know, within a year after never Mind came out. 1769 01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:54,080 Speaker 1: You know, I had a sense of foreboding and I 1770 01:32:54,120 --> 01:32:57,560 Speaker 1: was I wanted a regular job. I just didn't want it, 1771 01:32:57,560 --> 01:32:59,439 Speaker 1: and that once I had kids, I just didn't want 1772 01:32:59,439 --> 01:33:01,280 Speaker 1: to run a small business anymore. I like the idea 1773 01:33:01,280 --> 01:33:05,160 Speaker 1: of getting a salary. So I was still involved with Nirvana, 1774 01:33:05,160 --> 01:33:07,479 Speaker 1: and particularly involved with Kurt as somebody that he liked 1775 01:33:07,520 --> 01:33:09,640 Speaker 1: to talk to. But but you know, I had this 1776 01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:14,280 Speaker 1: other job, as you know, you know Atlantic, and and 1777 01:33:14,360 --> 01:33:16,080 Speaker 1: so I was in New York at that time. You know, 1778 01:33:16,080 --> 01:33:17,680 Speaker 1: Atlantic was in New York. We were still living in 1779 01:33:17,800 --> 01:33:21,479 Speaker 1: l A. She was he had just given birth to 1780 01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:26,960 Speaker 1: our second kid, Max. You know, Max was I think, uh, 1781 01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:30,800 Speaker 1: four or five months old when Kurt killed himself. And Um, 1782 01:33:30,840 --> 01:33:34,280 Speaker 1: she called me and told me. So she was on 1783 01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:36,560 Speaker 1: her way to see Corny to tell Corney. This is 1784 01:33:36,600 --> 01:33:39,080 Speaker 1: a bad segue, but we have to move on on 1785 01:33:39,160 --> 01:33:42,240 Speaker 1: the less Um. So you take the job in Atlantic, 1786 01:33:42,680 --> 01:33:46,759 Speaker 1: and simultaneous or shortly thereafter, there's a huge power struggle 1787 01:33:47,200 --> 01:33:51,720 Speaker 1: at Warner Music. And what did that look like from 1788 01:33:51,760 --> 01:33:55,559 Speaker 1: the inside, Well, it unfolded over a period of I 1789 01:33:55,600 --> 01:33:57,640 Speaker 1: think the total amount of time I was there was 1790 01:33:57,760 --> 01:34:02,040 Speaker 1: three years, so it you know, in retrospect, it was 1791 01:34:02,080 --> 01:34:04,240 Speaker 1: a short period of time. But in those days, I'm 1792 01:34:04,280 --> 01:34:06,080 Speaker 1: just living my life and I had no idea that 1793 01:34:06,160 --> 01:34:09,160 Speaker 1: around the corner was going to come this, this power struggle. 1794 01:34:09,200 --> 01:34:12,240 Speaker 1: I did feel. Doug Mars hired me originally to be 1795 01:34:12,360 --> 01:34:14,120 Speaker 1: kind of the West coast head of A and R 1796 01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:17,280 Speaker 1: for Atlantic. I had the Nirvana's manager. That kind of 1797 01:34:17,360 --> 01:34:23,040 Speaker 1: music was clearly overnight change. What was commercial rock and roll, 1798 01:34:23,080 --> 01:34:25,800 Speaker 1: The so called hair bands were passe A. There was 1799 01:34:25,840 --> 01:34:27,880 Speaker 1: a need for someone who could find these new these 1800 01:34:27,920 --> 01:34:30,960 Speaker 1: new acts and uh. In that context, I was one 1801 01:34:31,000 --> 01:34:33,200 Speaker 1: of the people at Science Stone Temple Pilots, which was 1802 01:34:33,280 --> 01:34:36,840 Speaker 1: almost an immediate huge success and and and kind of 1803 01:34:36,880 --> 01:34:40,280 Speaker 1: made me a success in Atlantic right away. Uh, and 1804 01:34:40,400 --> 01:34:42,120 Speaker 1: that or so Reaginally I was on the West coast, 1805 01:34:42,160 --> 01:34:45,120 Speaker 1: but I Doug, I knew, had aspirations to move up 1806 01:34:45,160 --> 01:34:46,920 Speaker 1: in the hierarchy, and I thought that if I did 1807 01:34:46,920 --> 01:34:49,040 Speaker 1: a good job, I'd had a chance of them becoming 1808 01:34:49,040 --> 01:34:52,160 Speaker 1: presid of Atlantic, and that is what happened. He became 1809 01:34:52,240 --> 01:34:57,640 Speaker 1: head of Warner Music for America UH and made me 1810 01:34:57,800 --> 01:35:04,120 Speaker 1: president of Atlantic UH and then um, by this about 1811 01:35:04,200 --> 01:35:10,280 Speaker 1: two years into my Atlantic period, there was this huge 1812 01:35:10,360 --> 01:35:14,679 Speaker 1: convulsion there. Um. They were a corporate guy named Bob 1813 01:35:14,760 --> 01:35:22,839 Speaker 1: murgato um who oversaw all the music companies, and um, 1814 01:35:22,960 --> 01:35:27,240 Speaker 1: the CEO of Time Warner the entire corporation was named 1815 01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:30,680 Speaker 1: Steve Ross, legendary brilliant business guy who had assembled this 1816 01:35:31,560 --> 01:35:35,080 Speaker 1: jewel of a media company included Warner Brothers, films, Time Magazine, 1817 01:35:35,200 --> 01:35:38,880 Speaker 1: with Time Warner Cable. I think they had Nintendo and 1818 01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:41,559 Speaker 1: one or books, and you know, it was like one 1819 01:35:41,600 --> 01:35:43,680 Speaker 1: of the big big media companies. He was like on 1820 01:35:43,720 --> 01:35:45,679 Speaker 1: that list with like the way you would talk today 1821 01:35:45,680 --> 01:35:48,040 Speaker 1: about a Ruper Murdoch or one of those guys. And 1822 01:35:48,120 --> 01:35:51,599 Speaker 1: he died in his sixties. Like I don't think people 1823 01:35:51,680 --> 01:35:54,280 Speaker 1: knew he was going to die. He had cancer and 1824 01:35:54,320 --> 01:35:56,519 Speaker 1: he went from being running the company to being dead 1825 01:35:56,680 --> 01:36:01,360 Speaker 1: very quickly. And the vacuum created his death changed the 1826 01:36:01,400 --> 01:36:07,479 Speaker 1: power dynamic in the music group because Steve Ross, for example, 1827 01:36:07,520 --> 01:36:10,519 Speaker 1: had always said that Mouston reported to him directly, not 1828 01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:13,719 Speaker 1: to the head of overall Music and the new guy 1829 01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:16,680 Speaker 1: who replaced the Ross was Jerry Levin. Didn't want that 1830 01:36:16,760 --> 01:36:21,519 Speaker 1: kind of weird structure, so Margato hated my Austin and 1831 01:36:21,560 --> 01:36:25,439 Speaker 1: he liked Doug, and Mom ended up getting fired. I 1832 01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:29,680 Speaker 1: ended up for eight or nine months becoming chairman of 1833 01:36:29,680 --> 01:36:33,280 Speaker 1: Warner Brothers, and then Doug got fired. It was a 1834 01:36:33,320 --> 01:36:38,040 Speaker 1: convulsive time. Uh. You know, the Warner Music group, it was. 1835 01:36:38,280 --> 01:36:39,720 Speaker 1: It was a weird thing to be part of. It 1836 01:36:39,760 --> 01:36:42,439 Speaker 1: was an amazing experience. I'm gratefully I got paid well 1837 01:36:42,479 --> 01:36:44,640 Speaker 1: for it, and I learned a lot from it. But 1838 01:36:44,720 --> 01:36:46,600 Speaker 1: I was totally ill equipped to deal with it. I 1839 01:36:46,880 --> 01:36:49,040 Speaker 1: had moved so quickly in the corporate world. I I 1840 01:36:49,320 --> 01:36:51,240 Speaker 1: didn't I wasn't a corporate guy. I had been an 1841 01:36:51,280 --> 01:36:55,640 Speaker 1: independent manager publicist guy for twenty some years and I 1842 01:36:55,640 --> 01:36:57,240 Speaker 1: was only in the corporate world for like a couple 1843 01:36:57,240 --> 01:36:59,400 Speaker 1: of years and something. I have the biggest corporate record 1844 01:36:59,479 --> 01:37:04,160 Speaker 1: job at a time when my boss is embattled, and uh, 1845 01:37:04,320 --> 01:37:07,679 Speaker 1: I was not equipped to really deal with the pressures 1846 01:37:07,680 --> 01:37:10,360 Speaker 1: in a very intelligent way. But I did the best 1847 01:37:10,360 --> 01:37:13,360 Speaker 1: I could, and you know, I'm glad I got to 1848 01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:15,800 Speaker 1: do it. And so when you let get let go. 1849 01:37:15,960 --> 01:37:21,439 Speaker 1: Do you see that coming? Well, um, there was a 1850 01:37:21,479 --> 01:37:29,719 Speaker 1: series of things that happened that that seemed incredibly important 1851 01:37:29,720 --> 01:37:31,320 Speaker 1: to the time. And now all these names are kind 1852 01:37:31,360 --> 01:37:38,480 Speaker 1: of not that interesting, but you know, um, first Mouston 1853 01:37:38,560 --> 01:37:40,800 Speaker 1: has let first. Bob kraz now has let go. He 1854 01:37:40,840 --> 01:37:42,880 Speaker 1: had been running Electric for ten or fifteen years. One 1855 01:37:42,920 --> 01:37:45,120 Speaker 1: of the giants of the business didn't get along with 1856 01:37:45,160 --> 01:37:48,240 Speaker 1: Bob Mugato. I guess he wasn't. The company was less profitable. 1857 01:37:49,080 --> 01:37:52,479 Speaker 1: Doug puts um Sylvia Rohne in his head of Electra. 1858 01:37:53,080 --> 01:37:55,320 Speaker 1: Then Lenny Warnicker was supposed to take Then Moe is 1859 01:37:55,360 --> 01:37:57,880 Speaker 1: given all right, when his contract is up, he's going 1860 01:37:57,920 --> 01:38:00,800 Speaker 1: to be out, which is a gigantic dock to the 1861 01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:04,960 Speaker 1: West Coast music community. Was the premier record executive, certainly 1862 01:38:04,960 --> 01:38:08,599 Speaker 1: in California, and many people thought in the country and 1863 01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:11,719 Speaker 1: beloved by a wide range of people in the entertainment 1864 01:38:11,760 --> 01:38:14,519 Speaker 1: business here, and they all sent letters to Jerry Levin, 1865 01:38:14,600 --> 01:38:17,840 Speaker 1: you know, all these Quincy Jones, Barbara streisand everybody, and 1866 01:38:17,920 --> 01:38:21,280 Speaker 1: Jerry Levin, CEO of Tom Waterer, didn't particularly like being 1867 01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:24,320 Speaker 1: pressured that way. That was not an effective tactic. And 1868 01:38:24,479 --> 01:38:28,200 Speaker 1: Magato hated Mouston because of some ego thing between the 1869 01:38:28,240 --> 01:38:30,080 Speaker 1: two of them that I was not really privy too, 1870 01:38:30,120 --> 01:38:36,200 Speaker 1: but was clearly palpable. And um. So then I then 1871 01:38:36,439 --> 01:38:41,360 Speaker 1: then uh, Margato gets fired and is replaced by Michael Fuchs, 1872 01:38:41,360 --> 01:38:45,400 Speaker 1: who had been running HBO. And then six months later 1873 01:38:45,600 --> 01:38:48,280 Speaker 1: and then then Doug gets fired. Then I get fired 1874 01:38:48,320 --> 01:38:50,320 Speaker 1: because I was very close to Doug. The people the 1875 01:38:50,360 --> 01:38:54,120 Speaker 1: two people closest to Doug corporately were Melo Winter and myself. 1876 01:38:54,160 --> 01:38:57,040 Speaker 1: We both got fired immediately right within weeks after Doug 1877 01:38:57,080 --> 01:39:00,439 Speaker 1: got fired. Sylvia hung in for a while. Um, they 1878 01:39:00,479 --> 01:39:04,120 Speaker 1: got rid of interscope, you know, within a year, UM, 1879 01:39:04,200 --> 01:39:08,960 Speaker 1: and Doug by then Universal brings inter scope there and UM. 1880 01:39:09,000 --> 01:39:11,960 Speaker 1: And then Michael Fuchs gets fired because he once Jerry 1881 01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:14,120 Speaker 1: Levin used him for the purpose of doing all of this, 1882 01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:16,240 Speaker 1: he he also turned out and wanted to also get 1883 01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:18,639 Speaker 1: rid of Michael Fuchs. So there was an enormous number 1884 01:39:18,640 --> 01:39:22,280 Speaker 1: of people fired. So certainly, once Doug got fired, I 1885 01:39:22,360 --> 01:39:25,640 Speaker 1: knew my days were numbered. I mean that was I 1886 01:39:25,760 --> 01:39:27,760 Speaker 1: was just a matter of how and what day of 1887 01:39:27,840 --> 01:39:30,439 Speaker 1: the week it was going to be. I couldn't imagine 1888 01:39:30,479 --> 01:39:33,839 Speaker 1: I was so closely identified with him there and and 1889 01:39:34,080 --> 01:39:38,160 Speaker 1: you know it was so personal. My whole role and 1890 01:39:38,280 --> 01:39:42,320 Speaker 1: there was so based on him, you know. Uh, So 1891 01:39:42,600 --> 01:39:44,519 Speaker 1: once he got fired, I figured it was it was 1892 01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:46,760 Speaker 1: going to happen. I I stayed for a couple of 1893 01:39:46,760 --> 01:39:49,200 Speaker 1: more months and to see if there was any way 1894 01:39:49,200 --> 01:39:52,400 Speaker 1: of achieving equilibrium and and to be responsible. I had 1895 01:39:52,439 --> 01:39:54,280 Speaker 1: a job until they fired me to do it. But 1896 01:39:54,760 --> 01:39:57,840 Speaker 1: my days were clearly numbered then. So once he was fired, 1897 01:39:57,880 --> 01:40:00,280 Speaker 1: I was not surprised that I was later fired. And 1898 01:40:00,320 --> 01:40:03,240 Speaker 1: you're fired, then you go to Mercury and then not 1899 01:40:03,400 --> 01:40:06,240 Speaker 1: long thereafter, Yeah, A Loon Levy hired me to be 1900 01:40:06,880 --> 01:40:09,799 Speaker 1: president of Mercury Records. It was a good soft landing 1901 01:40:10,760 --> 01:40:14,000 Speaker 1: and what you learned there, well, you know that was 1902 01:40:14,040 --> 01:40:16,240 Speaker 1: the That was a job that I had that wasn't 1903 01:40:16,280 --> 01:40:18,960 Speaker 1: based on Doug. That was a job I got kind 1904 01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:22,799 Speaker 1: of where it was me because Doug was was a mentor. 1905 01:40:23,000 --> 01:40:25,799 Speaker 1: He taught me a lot, but he also was always 1906 01:40:25,800 --> 01:40:28,080 Speaker 1: the boss, and a Loon Levy was really hands off. 1907 01:40:28,080 --> 01:40:30,479 Speaker 1: He was globally. He was running a global company, not 1908 01:40:30,600 --> 01:40:33,799 Speaker 1: just the US, and a global company whose main business 1909 01:40:33,880 --> 01:40:36,320 Speaker 1: was not in the United States. PolyGram was the biggest 1910 01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:38,400 Speaker 1: company everywhere, but the U S and they were a 1911 01:40:38,439 --> 01:40:40,839 Speaker 1: major in the US, but they were super major in Europe, 1912 01:40:41,400 --> 01:40:44,760 Speaker 1: Latin American Asia. Um So, first of all, it was 1913 01:40:44,800 --> 01:40:46,479 Speaker 1: the first time I kind of did it on my own, 1914 01:40:46,640 --> 01:40:49,400 Speaker 1: and uh it was that. It was certainly my most 1915 01:40:49,439 --> 01:40:55,160 Speaker 1: successful time as an executive. But it was shortened because 1916 01:40:55,240 --> 01:40:57,920 Speaker 1: PolyGram ended up being sold to Universal and they eliminated 1917 01:40:57,960 --> 01:41:00,000 Speaker 1: the idea of Mercury, you know. But but I had 1918 01:41:00,080 --> 01:41:04,240 Speaker 1: three years there. We had the last year I was 1919 01:41:04,280 --> 01:41:07,760 Speaker 1: there when Billboard Sounds getting they did their annual who 1920 01:41:07,880 --> 01:41:11,040 Speaker 1: which major company had the biggest market share? It was 1921 01:41:11,080 --> 01:41:14,960 Speaker 1: the Mercury Group. We beat Columbia, you know, and everybody else. So, 1922 01:41:15,080 --> 01:41:17,880 Speaker 1: I mean, I I felt really good about what we accomplished, 1923 01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:21,479 Speaker 1: and uh I got to uh, I got to do 1924 01:41:21,600 --> 01:41:25,480 Speaker 1: things that were really exciting there, you know. And uh 1925 01:41:25,520 --> 01:41:34,160 Speaker 1: what was exciting there? Well, um I I, UM, we 1926 01:41:34,840 --> 01:41:38,360 Speaker 1: had some hits. Are always exciting, right, so, you know, 1927 01:41:38,439 --> 01:41:41,680 Speaker 1: I Luke Lewis was running Mercury Nashville. He reported to 1928 01:41:41,760 --> 01:41:45,040 Speaker 1: me and Chanai Twain's biggest record, which is one of 1929 01:41:45,040 --> 01:41:47,559 Speaker 1: the biggest records of all time. It comes out of that. 1930 01:41:47,640 --> 01:41:49,880 Speaker 1: We we created what we called the Mercury Group. Where 1931 01:41:49,880 --> 01:41:52,559 Speaker 1: we had the pop department also working with the country department. 1932 01:41:52,560 --> 01:41:55,200 Speaker 1: It's very hard in those days to to to do 1933 01:41:55,400 --> 01:41:57,639 Speaker 1: pop and country at the same time. We pulled it off. 1934 01:41:58,080 --> 01:42:00,760 Speaker 1: I had the classical labels for acording to me and 1935 01:42:00,760 --> 01:42:04,880 Speaker 1: we we had Andrea Bicelli, you know, who's this unknown 1936 01:42:05,240 --> 01:42:09,160 Speaker 1: blind tenor and Pevrotti was in the middle of retiring 1937 01:42:09,240 --> 01:42:11,920 Speaker 1: and just kind of room for one of those and 1938 01:42:11,960 --> 01:42:14,479 Speaker 1: we were able to throw pbs and other things established 1939 01:42:14,560 --> 01:42:18,000 Speaker 1: him and he said twenty year run. Uh. Phil Walden 1940 01:42:18,479 --> 01:42:21,519 Speaker 1: had had another iteration of Capricorn that nobody wanted and 1941 01:42:21,520 --> 01:42:23,160 Speaker 1: it was one of the first deals I made and 1942 01:42:23,280 --> 01:42:25,760 Speaker 1: within a few months we had Platinum Records with three 1943 01:42:25,760 --> 01:42:28,679 Speaker 1: eleven and Cake and I got to work with Phil Walden, 1944 01:42:28,720 --> 01:42:31,880 Speaker 1: who was you know, had been noticed writings manager in 1945 01:42:31,960 --> 01:42:34,200 Speaker 1: the Alman Brothers manager, one of the great again. He 1946 01:42:34,280 --> 01:42:37,120 Speaker 1: died young, you know, but in the sixties of cancer, 1947 01:42:37,200 --> 01:42:39,479 Speaker 1: but you know, really to me, a giant in his 1948 01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:43,360 Speaker 1: own right, you know. You know, Um, we had a 1949 01:42:43,400 --> 01:42:45,920 Speaker 1: big We had the first of the boy bands of 1950 01:42:45,960 --> 01:42:48,639 Speaker 1: that era was Hansen, you know, before the Backstreet boyson 1951 01:42:48,680 --> 01:42:53,439 Speaker 1: in Sync, the first when Total Request Live started on MTV, 1952 01:42:53,600 --> 01:42:56,519 Speaker 1: which became kind of the nexus of the boy band era. 1953 01:42:56,680 --> 01:43:00,240 Speaker 1: For the first twelve weeks of TRL and Hansen was 1954 01:43:00,240 --> 01:43:02,720 Speaker 1: was number one. So that was kind of fun to 1955 01:43:02,800 --> 01:43:04,920 Speaker 1: be part of. And the A and our guy that 1956 01:43:04,960 --> 01:43:08,200 Speaker 1: I had hired from named Steve Greenberg developed them, still 1957 01:43:08,240 --> 01:43:09,920 Speaker 1: a good friend of mine and and and to be 1958 01:43:10,040 --> 01:43:12,599 Speaker 1: part of really launching at least one big pop act. 1959 01:43:12,640 --> 01:43:15,120 Speaker 1: I mean, Hansen turned out not to want to play 1960 01:43:15,160 --> 01:43:17,759 Speaker 1: the game and have future big records, but that first 1961 01:43:17,760 --> 01:43:20,320 Speaker 1: record sold ten million records, was number one all over 1962 01:43:20,320 --> 01:43:22,760 Speaker 1: the world. And then because we were doing a lot 1963 01:43:22,760 --> 01:43:24,840 Speaker 1: of business, I was able to do some of the arts, 1964 01:43:25,040 --> 01:43:29,479 Speaker 1: craftsy personal things that I had always dreamed of as 1965 01:43:29,520 --> 01:43:32,000 Speaker 1: a record company president. Maybe I could do which so 1966 01:43:32,120 --> 01:43:34,479 Speaker 1: we put out I put out Allen Ginsberg's last record, 1967 01:43:34,560 --> 01:43:38,680 Speaker 1: to put it to Jim Carroll's last record. Um, you know, 1968 01:43:38,800 --> 01:43:41,719 Speaker 1: brought a record, brought in a label called Tri Loca 1969 01:43:41,800 --> 01:43:44,800 Speaker 1: that put out the first several Christian Das records. You know, 1970 01:43:44,840 --> 01:43:47,640 Speaker 1: it's just things that culturally I was really proud to 1971 01:43:47,640 --> 01:43:49,880 Speaker 1: to to to be able to give a place you know, 1972 01:43:49,960 --> 01:43:51,360 Speaker 1: in the in the in the in the business. So 1973 01:43:51,439 --> 01:43:53,920 Speaker 1: that was really fun. I love that period. But you know, 1974 01:43:54,320 --> 01:43:57,800 Speaker 1: corporate events utterly beyond my control. It was some big 1975 01:43:57,800 --> 01:44:02,080 Speaker 1: fight in Holland between Phillips and along Levy about you know, 1976 01:44:03,080 --> 01:44:04,840 Speaker 1: the film company or something that had nothing to do 1977 01:44:04,880 --> 01:44:06,680 Speaker 1: with me. Caused them to sell the company. And once 1978 01:44:06,680 --> 01:44:08,679 Speaker 1: it was part of Universal, it was a different vision 1979 01:44:08,720 --> 01:44:11,320 Speaker 1: and they created what they called the Island def Jam 1980 01:44:11,439 --> 01:44:13,559 Speaker 1: took over most of what Mercury did, and and they 1981 01:44:13,600 --> 01:44:16,680 Speaker 1: were probably right. I mean, you know, hip hop was exploding, 1982 01:44:16,720 --> 01:44:21,439 Speaker 1: and Lee or was certainly had his handle on it. 1983 01:44:21,479 --> 01:44:24,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I I got paid very well for that, 1984 01:44:24,400 --> 01:44:27,400 Speaker 1: you know. Uh, that was the best parachute I got. 1985 01:44:28,000 --> 01:44:31,320 Speaker 1: But those three that so Mercury at least I felt 1986 01:44:32,120 --> 01:44:35,920 Speaker 1: I kind of had had the e ticket ride and 1987 01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:40,960 Speaker 1: and uh. But after two corporate convulsions, I was a 1988 01:44:40,960 --> 01:44:45,600 Speaker 1: little um dubious about my ability to function intelligently in 1989 01:44:45,600 --> 01:44:48,720 Speaker 1: a corporate area. I didn't respond to the pressure very well. 1990 01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:54,160 Speaker 1: I I panicked and had ego issues, and you know, 1991 01:44:54,240 --> 01:44:59,080 Speaker 1: I I didn't have the kind of centered discipline that 1992 01:44:59,160 --> 01:45:02,240 Speaker 1: the great long term corporate players have. You know, I 1993 01:45:02,360 --> 01:45:04,360 Speaker 1: was I was more of a rock and roll guy. 1994 01:45:04,680 --> 01:45:07,200 Speaker 1: And the next step is Artemus. So then yeah, I 1995 01:45:07,240 --> 01:45:10,200 Speaker 1: had Artemus I found a guy named Michael Chambers approached 1996 01:45:10,200 --> 01:45:12,960 Speaker 1: me right away. He had his father's a very successful 1997 01:45:13,680 --> 01:45:17,639 Speaker 1: leverage buyout genius and they had and Michael loved Nirvana 1998 01:45:17,680 --> 01:45:21,040 Speaker 1: and wanted to start a label and started Artemus, not 1999 01:45:21,640 --> 01:45:25,040 Speaker 1: you know, thinking that I could do what like Interscope 2000 01:45:25,040 --> 01:45:27,320 Speaker 1: had done. That was my model, but of course it 2001 01:45:27,400 --> 01:45:29,880 Speaker 1: was first of all, I'm not Jimmy Ivan. Secondly, it 2002 01:45:29,960 --> 01:45:32,240 Speaker 1: was the wrong time to do it. We started Artemus 2003 01:45:32,280 --> 01:45:35,360 Speaker 1: just as the record business was spiraling downward financially and 2004 01:45:35,400 --> 01:45:38,880 Speaker 1: the you know, the the the MP three, dot Com 2005 01:45:38,920 --> 01:45:42,120 Speaker 1: and Napster and you know, the digital world was was 2006 01:45:42,120 --> 01:45:45,519 Speaker 1: was eroding the value of masters. So I couldn't fight 2007 01:45:45,600 --> 01:45:49,320 Speaker 1: that that wave. I was totally not equipped for it. 2008 01:45:49,360 --> 01:45:51,479 Speaker 1: I was fighting the last war. But we had some 2009 01:45:51,520 --> 01:45:53,080 Speaker 1: records I'm really proud of it. Made the last three 2010 01:45:53,120 --> 01:45:56,680 Speaker 1: Warrant Yvon records, the third of which one in Grahamy's 2011 01:45:56,720 --> 01:45:59,240 Speaker 1: and his gold record That's where I met Steve are 2012 01:45:59,280 --> 01:46:02,519 Speaker 1: all made for Steve row records. Uh two of them 2013 01:46:02,520 --> 01:46:06,280 Speaker 1: at won Grammys. Uh made a Jimmy for One record 2014 01:46:06,280 --> 01:46:08,960 Speaker 1: that won a Grammy, made Hubert Someone's last record, did 2015 01:46:08,960 --> 01:46:13,519 Speaker 1: a Pretender's record, Um. And we had to let the 2016 01:46:13,520 --> 01:46:16,439 Speaker 1: dogs out. So you know, it was it was not nothing, 2017 01:46:16,560 --> 01:46:20,160 Speaker 1: but but it was. It was doomed because I just 2018 01:46:20,200 --> 01:46:23,240 Speaker 1: didn't I didn't have the clarity. You know, Daniel Glasses, 2019 01:46:23,479 --> 01:46:26,800 Speaker 1: I was chairman, he was president. You know, I'm I'm 2020 01:46:26,840 --> 01:46:28,599 Speaker 1: proud of what we did at Artemus, but it was 2021 01:46:28,680 --> 01:46:32,439 Speaker 1: it was the wrong business model. It was a business 2022 01:46:32,479 --> 01:46:34,679 Speaker 1: model that would have been great for ten years earlier, 2023 01:46:35,160 --> 01:46:37,599 Speaker 1: and I, you know, I didn't So but you know, 2024 01:46:37,920 --> 01:46:40,040 Speaker 1: again there's the records that we put out that I'm 2025 01:46:40,080 --> 01:46:42,799 Speaker 1: very proud of. So now you're a manager again. Correct? 2026 01:46:42,960 --> 01:46:46,320 Speaker 1: So what you know you could have just said I'm done? Yeah? 2027 01:46:46,640 --> 01:46:50,600 Speaker 1: Why why get back in? Um? You know, I I 2028 01:46:50,720 --> 01:46:54,200 Speaker 1: like to work. Um, I I feel better about myself 2029 01:46:54,240 --> 01:46:57,479 Speaker 1: when I'm working. I don't really, you know, I I 2030 01:46:57,680 --> 01:47:02,360 Speaker 1: my self esteem requires the idea of doing something. Uh 2031 01:47:02,520 --> 01:47:06,000 Speaker 1: so far, I do meditate and I defined myself when 2032 01:47:06,040 --> 01:47:08,760 Speaker 1: I'm in my highest moments as being not just the 2033 01:47:08,880 --> 01:47:13,080 Speaker 1: some of my external work and accomplishments, but most of 2034 01:47:13,080 --> 01:47:16,120 Speaker 1: the time I'm the same schmuck that wants to be 2035 01:47:16,240 --> 01:47:19,559 Speaker 1: somebody and do something. And the only thing I really 2036 01:47:19,600 --> 01:47:23,360 Speaker 1: have expertise in is is is whatever corner of the 2037 01:47:23,439 --> 01:47:27,200 Speaker 1: music business I have at any given moment in time. 2038 01:47:27,280 --> 01:47:29,760 Speaker 1: So I spent a year or leaving I experimented. I'd 2039 01:47:29,760 --> 01:47:32,360 Speaker 1: always had this real interest as a political activist. Ever 2040 01:47:32,400 --> 01:47:34,479 Speaker 1: since No Nukes, I've been very involved with a lot 2041 01:47:34,520 --> 01:47:36,479 Speaker 1: of political things. I've been the chairman of the a 2042 01:47:36,520 --> 01:47:38,599 Speaker 1: c o U of Southern California for seven years when 2043 01:47:38,600 --> 01:47:41,320 Speaker 1: I lived out here, and uh, you know, wrote a 2044 01:47:41,360 --> 01:47:45,120 Speaker 1: book about politics and culture. Uh. And so I did 2045 01:47:45,160 --> 01:47:47,720 Speaker 1: take a non music business job, which was the to 2046 01:47:47,800 --> 01:47:51,240 Speaker 1: be the chairman of Air America Radio coming out of Artemus, 2047 01:47:51,240 --> 01:47:53,760 Speaker 1: which turned out to be doomed. I noticed you had 2048 01:47:54,000 --> 01:47:57,880 Speaker 1: Rob Glazers recent podcast guest, and he was he was 2049 01:47:58,000 --> 01:48:02,080 Speaker 1: my least favorite boss. Because I don't want to go 2050 01:48:02,120 --> 01:48:04,320 Speaker 1: into it. I'm just trying to say I'm not gonna 2051 01:48:04,360 --> 01:48:07,400 Speaker 1: make it. Was he hands on? Well, I mean I 2052 01:48:07,439 --> 01:48:13,440 Speaker 1: would say this. Um. When I first got the job. Um, 2053 01:48:13,520 --> 01:48:15,120 Speaker 1: he was coming out to l A to try to 2054 01:48:15,200 --> 01:48:18,640 Speaker 1: raise some money from the Hollywood liberal community, and I said, you, 2055 01:48:18,840 --> 01:48:20,280 Speaker 1: I know, I said, I know, I'm not starting for 2056 01:48:20,320 --> 01:48:21,400 Speaker 1: a week or two you but do you want me 2057 01:48:21,400 --> 01:48:22,960 Speaker 1: to come with you? I know a lot of these people, 2058 01:48:23,040 --> 01:48:24,679 Speaker 1: you know, because when I was here, I was really 2059 01:48:24,720 --> 01:48:27,479 Speaker 1: part of that community and meant a lot to me 2060 01:48:27,479 --> 01:48:30,639 Speaker 1: and I and I had some credibility with a lot 2061 01:48:30,640 --> 01:48:32,760 Speaker 1: of normally are and those kind of people. And he 2062 01:48:32,760 --> 01:48:34,040 Speaker 1: said no, no no, no, he says, I don't want you 2063 01:48:34,080 --> 01:48:35,759 Speaker 1: to worry about money. I want you to run the company. 2064 01:48:35,800 --> 01:48:39,240 Speaker 1: I said great. So then three weeks later, I'm now 2065 01:48:39,320 --> 01:48:42,000 Speaker 1: running the company. They've announced it, and the in house 2066 01:48:42,120 --> 01:48:44,720 Speaker 1: controller they didn't have a normal CFO comes to me 2067 01:48:44,760 --> 01:48:47,840 Speaker 1: and says, Um, by the way, we don't have the 2068 01:48:47,840 --> 01:48:52,200 Speaker 1: money for the payroll, and and and you know, as 2069 01:48:52,280 --> 01:48:54,120 Speaker 1: I called him, and I said, Rob, we don't have 2070 01:48:54,160 --> 01:48:55,479 Speaker 1: the money to the payroll. What do I do? He says, 2071 01:48:55,479 --> 01:48:58,320 Speaker 1: you're the CEO. You figure it out. So I knew 2072 01:48:58,360 --> 01:49:01,559 Speaker 1: I was fun. You know, there was underfunded. He he 2073 01:49:01,600 --> 01:49:03,920 Speaker 1: did lose money on it. I mean he put millions 2074 01:49:03,960 --> 01:49:06,240 Speaker 1: of dollars into it, but it required much more money 2075 01:49:06,320 --> 01:49:08,680 Speaker 1: than that, and there wasn't a plan to raise the 2076 01:49:08,680 --> 01:49:10,600 Speaker 1: rest of the money. There was this if you build it, 2077 01:49:10,640 --> 01:49:13,719 Speaker 1: they will come notion, which is that's a movie. People 2078 01:49:13,720 --> 01:49:15,479 Speaker 1: would say that. I said, no, that's a movie. That's 2079 01:49:15,520 --> 01:49:23,160 Speaker 1: not real. That was like, you know, so you know, um, 2080 01:49:23,439 --> 01:49:28,040 Speaker 1: when that, uh, when that flopped. Um it went bankrupt 2081 01:49:28,080 --> 01:49:30,040 Speaker 1: not long after. I spent about a year there. Again. 2082 01:49:30,080 --> 01:49:32,120 Speaker 1: It a very interesting experience, and to be able to 2083 01:49:32,160 --> 01:49:34,760 Speaker 1: work with Al Franklin was an incredible honor. I'm a 2084 01:49:34,800 --> 01:49:36,400 Speaker 1: great fan of his. I wish he was still in 2085 01:49:36,400 --> 01:49:39,080 Speaker 1: the Senate. Rachel Mattow was our you know. I put 2086 01:49:39,120 --> 01:49:41,519 Speaker 1: her into Morning Drive and she's had the celestrious career. 2087 01:49:41,520 --> 01:49:42,880 Speaker 1: There were a couple of things came out of it 2088 01:49:42,920 --> 01:49:46,320 Speaker 1: that are notable, but it was a failed business. And 2089 01:49:47,240 --> 01:49:49,960 Speaker 1: Steve Earle had been on Artemus and he called me, 2090 01:49:50,360 --> 01:49:52,280 Speaker 1: and I knew he was looking for a new manager 2091 01:49:52,320 --> 01:49:53,880 Speaker 1: because he'd had a falling out with the guy who 2092 01:49:53,880 --> 01:49:56,560 Speaker 1: had been managing him for years. And he called me, 2093 01:49:56,640 --> 01:49:59,360 Speaker 1: says and I said, look, man, I don't know if 2094 01:49:59,360 --> 01:50:01,639 Speaker 1: you'd be interested it, but this thing is going under. 2095 01:50:02,240 --> 01:50:06,960 Speaker 1: And I was thinking about being a manager again. And 2096 01:50:07,040 --> 01:50:09,080 Speaker 1: so he called me back an hour later and he says, 2097 01:50:09,120 --> 01:50:12,439 Speaker 1: if you're in, I'm in. So I just figured there 2098 01:50:12,439 --> 01:50:14,519 Speaker 1: it is, you know, I you know, I had a 2099 01:50:14,560 --> 01:50:17,720 Speaker 1: client and uh, I still work with Steve Earl. I mean, 2100 01:50:17,760 --> 01:50:20,280 Speaker 1: so it turns out to be the longest relationship I've 2101 01:50:20,280 --> 01:50:22,439 Speaker 1: ever had with an artist. It's not seventeen years we've 2102 01:50:22,479 --> 01:50:26,280 Speaker 1: we've worked together, and um, I just didn't want to quit. 2103 01:50:26,360 --> 01:50:28,200 Speaker 1: I just didn't know what I would do if I quit. 2104 01:50:28,400 --> 01:50:32,639 Speaker 1: You know, Now, because I've been writing more regularly, at 2105 01:50:32,680 --> 01:50:35,400 Speaker 1: least I have some confidence that there's something else I 2106 01:50:35,400 --> 01:50:37,160 Speaker 1: could do. You know, I published that book last year 2107 01:50:37,160 --> 01:50:39,960 Speaker 1: about the sixties nine seven. I have this one coming 2108 01:50:39,960 --> 01:50:43,479 Speaker 1: about Kurt. I've been writing regularly for the nation. I 2109 01:50:43,520 --> 01:50:45,479 Speaker 1: finally kind of have a discipline as a writer that 2110 01:50:45,520 --> 01:50:49,280 Speaker 1: I didn't have in my early twenties. But um, you know, 2111 01:50:49,400 --> 01:50:52,920 Speaker 1: I I I like, uh, it's the only thing in 2112 01:50:52,960 --> 01:50:55,800 Speaker 1: the world where I've had a role is the is 2113 01:50:55,840 --> 01:50:57,800 Speaker 1: the rock and roll world. I don't, you know, It's 2114 01:50:57,800 --> 01:51:00,400 Speaker 1: not like I could get another job doing anything thing else. 2115 01:51:01,080 --> 01:51:04,000 Speaker 1: And I like working, and I like, I don't like 2116 01:51:04,080 --> 01:51:06,840 Speaker 1: every minute of it, but you know, I I'm really 2117 01:51:07,720 --> 01:51:10,160 Speaker 1: very grateful to have a little piece of it. And 2118 01:51:10,200 --> 01:51:12,599 Speaker 1: I've had a very interesting ride at highs and low 2119 01:51:12,680 --> 01:51:16,800 Speaker 1: is big and small, but you know, I still think 2120 01:51:16,840 --> 01:51:20,240 Speaker 1: it's a honorable profession. And I don't know what else 2121 01:51:20,280 --> 01:51:22,760 Speaker 1: to do. Okay, let's just drill down a little bit. 2122 01:51:22,760 --> 01:51:26,120 Speaker 1: Steve Earle Steve Earle, you know, comes out in the 2123 01:51:26,200 --> 01:51:30,519 Speaker 1: eighties as the new White Hope, makes these incredible records, 2124 01:51:30,560 --> 01:51:33,320 Speaker 1: Guitar Town, etcetera. In a different area. If you're Steve 2125 01:51:33,360 --> 01:51:37,559 Speaker 1: Earle today and you're approaching sixty, what does the business 2126 01:51:37,680 --> 01:51:41,160 Speaker 1: look like for somebody like that? Uh, yeah, he's over sixty. 2127 01:51:41,320 --> 01:51:46,559 Speaker 1: He's over sixty. He's five years younger than me. Um. Well, 2128 01:51:47,120 --> 01:51:52,240 Speaker 1: the number one characteristic for an artist in a category 2129 01:51:52,280 --> 01:51:56,280 Speaker 1: that includes him is that the primary business is is 2130 01:51:56,280 --> 01:52:00,120 Speaker 1: selling concert tickets. You know that the records are are 2131 01:52:00,200 --> 01:52:04,599 Speaker 1: are your legacy and their marketing tool for your concert business. 2132 01:52:04,640 --> 01:52:09,120 Speaker 1: They're not your main source of income. Um The second 2133 01:52:09,160 --> 01:52:15,200 Speaker 1: thing about the business is that it's about it's increasingly 2134 01:52:15,240 --> 01:52:19,559 Speaker 1: about trying to monetize the super fan. It's not it's 2135 01:52:19,600 --> 01:52:22,160 Speaker 1: it's hard to grow new fans. Every once in a while, 2136 01:52:22,320 --> 01:52:25,040 Speaker 1: something happened. Somebody has a song in a movie or 2137 01:52:25,080 --> 01:52:27,720 Speaker 1: a commercial, or or a magic song of some kind 2138 01:52:27,760 --> 01:52:31,400 Speaker 1: that expands their audience when they're older. Um. You know, 2139 01:52:31,560 --> 01:52:34,280 Speaker 1: Zevon expands this audience when he was dying, you know. 2140 01:52:34,439 --> 01:52:40,400 Speaker 1: But more common for artists, whether it's Springsteen or Jackson 2141 01:52:40,439 --> 01:52:43,840 Speaker 1: Brown or Steve Earl or you know fifty other names 2142 01:52:43,840 --> 01:52:46,920 Speaker 1: that we could we could mention it. It's it's it's 2143 01:52:46,960 --> 01:52:52,599 Speaker 1: about figuring out to maintain those fans and and some 2144 01:52:52,720 --> 01:52:57,439 Speaker 1: of them will pay for uh you know, uh Golden 2145 01:52:57,439 --> 01:53:03,519 Speaker 1: Circle tickets or uh a luxe editions signed things, uh 2146 01:53:03,920 --> 01:53:07,000 Speaker 1: being able to come to the sound check. Um, you know, 2147 01:53:07,120 --> 01:53:09,920 Speaker 1: it's about it's about servicing your super fans. It's it's 2148 01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:12,240 Speaker 1: kind of a hybrid between the old music business and 2149 01:53:12,320 --> 01:53:15,040 Speaker 1: kind of the business of being like a painter, where 2150 01:53:15,040 --> 01:53:18,479 Speaker 1: you've got you know, it's kind of it's it's not 2151 01:53:18,560 --> 01:53:20,519 Speaker 1: like someone spending a million dollars for a painting, but 2152 01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:23,840 Speaker 1: it's also not like somebody just streaming something hundreds and 2153 01:53:23,920 --> 01:53:26,240 Speaker 1: hundreds or millions of times. You know. It's it's it's 2154 01:53:26,280 --> 01:53:28,320 Speaker 1: it's it's about it. It's about an intense group of 2155 01:53:28,360 --> 01:53:31,200 Speaker 1: super fans, many of whom will pay more money. So 2156 01:53:31,240 --> 01:53:33,960 Speaker 1: you've got venues like the City Winery that pay very 2157 01:53:34,040 --> 01:53:35,720 Speaker 1: very well because they make so much money on the 2158 01:53:35,760 --> 01:53:39,040 Speaker 1: wine and the food. You've got these performing arts centers, uh, 2159 01:53:39,080 --> 01:53:40,920 Speaker 1: and then of course for the bigger artists. You know, 2160 01:53:40,960 --> 01:53:43,200 Speaker 1: you've got two hundred and fifty dollar tickets that are 2161 01:53:43,320 --> 01:53:45,800 Speaker 1: that are that are part of the ecosystem that was 2162 01:53:45,880 --> 01:53:49,240 Speaker 1: unheard of. So so that's the world you know, it's 2163 01:53:49,280 --> 01:53:52,840 Speaker 1: about it's about finding your fans uh and uh and 2164 01:53:52,960 --> 01:53:56,920 Speaker 1: monetizing them um with and and and you you of 2165 01:53:56,920 --> 01:53:59,760 Speaker 1: course everybody always wants new fans, but but if you're 2166 01:53:59,760 --> 01:54:01,320 Speaker 1: trying to make sure you can pay your bills for 2167 01:54:01,360 --> 01:54:03,400 Speaker 1: the year, it's about servicing the fans that you have. 2168 01:54:03,720 --> 01:54:06,479 Speaker 1: So if you're someone like Steve Rrol, how many super 2169 01:54:06,479 --> 01:54:11,080 Speaker 1: fans would you think he has? Well? Um, I mean 2170 01:54:11,120 --> 01:54:14,200 Speaker 1: on Spotify it says eight hundred thousand people a month 2171 01:54:14,320 --> 01:54:20,400 Speaker 1: visit his page, so that's a number I like. Um, 2172 01:54:20,520 --> 01:54:24,960 Speaker 1: he's got um uh. He's a global artist. You know, 2173 01:54:25,040 --> 01:54:27,200 Speaker 1: he tours. He's in Europe right now as we speak. 2174 01:54:27,240 --> 01:54:29,680 Speaker 1: You know, he's he's you know, you can sell a 2175 01:54:29,720 --> 01:54:33,040 Speaker 1: couple of thousand tickets and uh in London and Dublin 2176 01:54:33,120 --> 01:54:37,240 Speaker 1: and Stockholm, Australia. You know, Canada has always been as 2177 01:54:37,240 --> 01:54:38,760 Speaker 1: big as a market. So if he's going, he's selling 2178 01:54:38,760 --> 01:54:41,720 Speaker 1: couple hundred tickets, couple of thousand, couple of thousand, ye 2179 01:54:42,080 --> 01:54:44,640 Speaker 1: no big, Yeah, there's a couple of no no no 2180 01:54:44,640 --> 01:54:47,720 Speaker 1: no no no no no, A couple of thousands. Yeah, yeah, 2181 01:54:47,800 --> 01:54:50,600 Speaker 1: no so, um, a couple of thousand tickets. Sure, you 2182 01:54:50,640 --> 01:54:54,600 Speaker 1: know he's got a band. Um. Sometimes he plays solo. 2183 01:54:54,680 --> 01:54:57,160 Speaker 1: Obviously the margin is bigger when he plays solo. But 2184 01:54:57,280 --> 01:54:59,920 Speaker 1: on the other hand, the key with the audiences is 2185 01:55:00,040 --> 01:55:02,600 Speaker 1: to keep doing something different each time. Right now. In 2186 01:55:02,680 --> 01:55:06,879 Speaker 1: the last American tour was him, Lucinda Williams, Dwight Yoakum 2187 01:55:06,880 --> 01:55:09,760 Speaker 1: and Steve. They called the L S D Tour. Uh 2188 01:55:09,840 --> 01:55:12,120 Speaker 1: you know. Uh. Then he did a cycle with him 2189 01:55:12,120 --> 01:55:14,200 Speaker 1: and Sewan Colvin. They did a record together and they 2190 01:55:14,240 --> 01:55:17,920 Speaker 1: toured together. Um. You know his next record is going 2191 01:55:18,000 --> 01:55:20,920 Speaker 1: to be a record of Guy Clark songs. Uh. You know, 2192 01:55:20,960 --> 01:55:25,640 Speaker 1: one of his mentor is one of the great Americana icons. Um. 2193 01:55:25,760 --> 01:55:27,800 Speaker 1: He won a Grammy a few years ago for an 2194 01:55:27,840 --> 01:55:29,760 Speaker 1: album he did of towns, fans and songs. You know, 2195 01:55:29,760 --> 01:55:32,680 Speaker 1: Steve is very smart about trying to create a narrative 2196 01:55:32,720 --> 01:55:35,640 Speaker 1: for each cycle because the main exposure vehicle is is 2197 01:55:35,680 --> 01:55:38,520 Speaker 1: the old school media. You know, there's only there's some 2198 01:55:38,640 --> 01:55:40,480 Speaker 1: radio stations that will play him. I mean here in 2199 01:55:40,520 --> 01:55:43,680 Speaker 1: Los Angeles KCS and always play Steve, and there are 2200 01:55:43,800 --> 01:55:46,680 Speaker 1: a w FUV and there's a noncommon you know, he 2201 01:55:46,720 --> 01:55:49,440 Speaker 1: has a weekly show on serious radio and things like that. 2202 01:55:49,520 --> 01:55:52,480 Speaker 1: But but kind of having the narrative that can cross 2203 01:55:52,920 --> 01:55:55,160 Speaker 1: the old and new media is kind of a way 2204 01:55:55,160 --> 01:55:58,320 Speaker 1: of letting fans know. So, like this year was thirtieth 2205 01:55:58,320 --> 01:56:00,920 Speaker 1: anniversary of Copperhead Roads, so he did a Copperhead Road 2206 01:56:00,920 --> 01:56:06,440 Speaker 1: tour and you know, that did about more ticket sales 2207 01:56:06,480 --> 01:56:09,440 Speaker 1: than his last tour because he played the whole album. 2208 01:56:09,480 --> 01:56:12,360 Speaker 1: It was easy. It was a one liner the elevator 2209 01:56:12,400 --> 01:56:15,920 Speaker 1: pitcheets all of Copperhead Road and some and some other songs. 2210 01:56:15,960 --> 01:56:18,080 Speaker 1: So it's it's it's the marketing part of it is 2211 01:56:18,120 --> 01:56:21,720 Speaker 1: about a narrative. The economics is about what the ticket 2212 01:56:21,760 --> 01:56:24,480 Speaker 1: price is, multiplied by how many people will buy the tickets, 2213 01:56:24,520 --> 01:56:26,640 Speaker 1: adding to which the amount of merch you sell, and 2214 01:56:27,120 --> 01:56:29,680 Speaker 1: making sure that you spend enough less than that between 2215 01:56:29,720 --> 01:56:31,880 Speaker 1: the tour bus and the crew and what you pay 2216 01:56:31,920 --> 01:56:33,840 Speaker 1: the musicians, so that there's a profit at the end 2217 01:56:33,880 --> 01:56:36,320 Speaker 1: of it. You know, And if you can have a 2218 01:56:36,400 --> 01:56:40,480 Speaker 1: thousand or two thousand fans and seventy rading markets around 2219 01:56:40,520 --> 01:56:42,040 Speaker 1: the world, you can make a good living. You're not 2220 01:56:42,080 --> 01:56:45,200 Speaker 1: going to become a billionaire or you know. Lifestyle is 2221 01:56:45,240 --> 01:56:47,400 Speaker 1: the rich and familists, but it's it's it's it's a 2222 01:56:47,760 --> 01:56:50,720 Speaker 1: definitely a good, good living. So the same would be 2223 01:56:50,720 --> 01:56:52,840 Speaker 1: true of Bonnie Ray, Jackson Brown, you know, a whole 2224 01:56:52,880 --> 01:56:55,960 Speaker 1: category of artists and and there's an artistry to a too. 2225 01:56:56,000 --> 01:56:59,320 Speaker 1: I think as a fan of the last five years 2226 01:56:59,360 --> 01:57:02,040 Speaker 1: of Leonard Owen's career, you know, to me or among 2227 01:57:02,120 --> 01:57:07,200 Speaker 1: the most inspiring, profound artistic moments as a fan that 2228 01:57:07,240 --> 01:57:09,600 Speaker 1: I ever had, those last several albums he made, those 2229 01:57:09,680 --> 01:57:13,480 Speaker 1: last few tours he did. So you know, it's not 2230 01:57:13,520 --> 01:57:16,480 Speaker 1: only about being as big as Drake. You know, you can't. 2231 01:57:16,560 --> 01:57:19,200 Speaker 1: You can't compete with people fifty years younger than you were, 2232 01:57:19,240 --> 01:57:21,360 Speaker 1: forty years younger than you. You know, youth has a 2233 01:57:21,360 --> 01:57:24,840 Speaker 1: certain thing to it. But the exciting thing to me 2234 01:57:24,880 --> 01:57:27,560 Speaker 1: about our generation is that there are is that emerge 2235 01:57:27,640 --> 01:57:29,640 Speaker 1: that some of them have found a way to stay 2236 01:57:29,680 --> 01:57:31,920 Speaker 1: relevant as artists, and some of them are just doing 2237 01:57:31,920 --> 01:57:34,960 Speaker 1: all these shows obviously, but Leonard Cohen, to me, is 2238 01:57:35,000 --> 01:57:37,480 Speaker 1: one of the great examples of someone in the latter 2239 01:57:37,520 --> 01:57:39,280 Speaker 1: part of their career and not also doing some of 2240 01:57:39,280 --> 01:57:42,280 Speaker 1: his best work. And I think Steve is doing great work. 2241 01:57:42,320 --> 01:57:44,600 Speaker 1: I think Steve's last few records are are as good 2242 01:57:44,600 --> 01:57:46,560 Speaker 1: as anything he ever did. I think Lucid the Williams 2243 01:57:46,680 --> 01:57:48,800 Speaker 1: last few records are as good as anything she ever did. 2244 01:57:49,320 --> 01:57:51,280 Speaker 1: And then there are other people whose best work is 2245 01:57:51,320 --> 01:57:53,480 Speaker 1: twenty years or thirty years ago. You know, it's just 2246 01:57:53,600 --> 01:57:55,920 Speaker 1: it's it's like any other kind of creative person, whether 2247 01:57:55,920 --> 01:57:58,160 Speaker 1: it's a novelist. Not every novelist can do what Philip 2248 01:57:58,280 --> 01:58:01,280 Speaker 1: Roth did, but Philip Browth did it right. And not 2249 01:58:01,400 --> 01:58:04,640 Speaker 1: every filmmaker can stay relevant the way Scorsese does, but 2250 01:58:04,680 --> 01:58:06,760 Speaker 1: there is a Scorsese. And it's just one of those 2251 01:58:06,800 --> 01:58:11,880 Speaker 1: things about about aging. Some artists lose their inspiration as 2252 01:58:11,880 --> 01:58:15,760 Speaker 1: they get older, and some keep it. So really, you've 2253 01:58:15,800 --> 01:58:17,640 Speaker 1: been there from the beginning because you were awake when 2254 01:58:17,680 --> 01:58:21,440 Speaker 1: the Beatles arrived. You're involved starting in six the Woodstock, 2255 01:58:21,680 --> 01:58:24,960 Speaker 1: and you here today with all that perspective, What do 2256 01:58:25,000 --> 01:58:30,840 Speaker 1: you think of music and the music business today? You know, 2257 01:58:31,000 --> 01:58:35,160 Speaker 1: I tend to see things just through my own prism. 2258 01:58:35,560 --> 01:58:38,280 Speaker 1: You you would be much better able to have an 2259 01:58:38,320 --> 01:58:42,800 Speaker 1: overview than I do. My My professional life revolves around 2260 01:58:42,800 --> 01:58:45,400 Speaker 1: a handful of artists who I work with, and then 2261 01:58:45,440 --> 01:58:47,440 Speaker 1: if I get a new client, then I see it 2262 01:58:47,480 --> 01:58:50,640 Speaker 1: through their prism and and uh, you know, I see 2263 01:58:50,680 --> 01:58:52,360 Speaker 1: it through the prism of some of my friends who 2264 01:58:52,400 --> 01:58:54,680 Speaker 1: manage other acts or who work with other artists. But 2265 01:58:55,280 --> 01:58:58,240 Speaker 1: I'm not at Billboard anymore. I'm not at MTV. I'm 2266 01:58:58,280 --> 01:59:00,760 Speaker 1: not you. I don't have to have it. It's not 2267 01:59:00,840 --> 01:59:06,440 Speaker 1: my job description to have an overview, you know. Obviously, um, 2268 01:59:06,960 --> 01:59:10,120 Speaker 1: streaming is how people are consuming music. I'm no different. 2269 01:59:10,200 --> 01:59:12,600 Speaker 1: I I liked it better when we sold these physical 2270 01:59:12,600 --> 01:59:15,240 Speaker 1: products because I understood the economics very well, and it 2271 01:59:15,360 --> 01:59:18,080 Speaker 1: was it was a system that worked for a lot 2272 01:59:18,120 --> 01:59:21,440 Speaker 1: of people. But I listened to of the music I 2273 01:59:21,480 --> 01:59:25,000 Speaker 1: listened to on Spotify because it's so convenient, and there's 2274 01:59:25,000 --> 01:59:27,000 Speaker 1: a few things they don't have that I have to 2275 01:59:27,040 --> 01:59:29,960 Speaker 1: listen to in another way, But anything that's on Spotify, 2276 01:59:30,000 --> 01:59:32,120 Speaker 1: that's how I'm going to listen to it. I mean, 2277 01:59:32,680 --> 01:59:36,320 Speaker 1: obviously there's a subculture of audiophiles who like vinyl. It's 2278 01:59:36,360 --> 01:59:38,920 Speaker 1: not that economically important, but those are the people who 2279 01:59:38,960 --> 01:59:42,560 Speaker 1: buy the expensive concert tickets also, so those are super fans. 2280 01:59:43,520 --> 01:59:46,200 Speaker 1: The concert business is probably as healthy as it's ever 2281 01:59:46,280 --> 01:59:49,360 Speaker 1: been in my lifetime. The the the number of festivals 2282 01:59:49,400 --> 01:59:51,920 Speaker 1: around the world, the amount of money people will pay 2283 01:59:51,920 --> 01:59:55,120 Speaker 1: for tickets to things that they like, the continued role 2284 01:59:55,240 --> 01:59:58,600 Speaker 1: that music has for wealthy, older audiences. So the kind 2285 01:59:58,600 --> 02:00:04,080 Speaker 1: of the kind of uh, you know, Bruce Springsteen, the 2286 02:00:04,080 --> 02:00:06,360 Speaker 1: face price on the best tickets to that show are 2287 02:00:06,400 --> 02:00:09,600 Speaker 1: eight hundred and fifty dollars. You know. Um, that's not 2288 02:00:09,680 --> 02:00:14,960 Speaker 1: a scalpers price, you know. Yeah, well you know that's 2289 02:00:14,960 --> 02:00:18,760 Speaker 1: a good way of doing it. Um. And obviously stub 2290 02:00:18,800 --> 02:00:21,880 Speaker 1: hub and other things like that too. But so I 2291 02:00:21,920 --> 02:00:25,000 Speaker 1: think the live businesses as a business very vital. I 2292 02:00:25,000 --> 02:00:27,880 Speaker 1: think the record business is being reinvented, and there are 2293 02:00:28,280 --> 02:00:31,200 Speaker 1: fifty people a lot smarter than me who could talk 2294 02:00:31,240 --> 02:00:34,320 Speaker 1: about what it's going to be. But obviously the aggregant 2295 02:00:34,320 --> 02:00:37,800 Speaker 1: amount of money that's dreaming is generating is probably a 2296 02:00:37,800 --> 02:00:39,760 Speaker 1: few years away from getting up to what it used 2297 02:00:39,800 --> 02:00:43,400 Speaker 1: to be with with the physical product, how it's divided. Um, 2298 02:00:43,440 --> 02:00:46,640 Speaker 1: I don't think that conversation is over. I think it's 2299 02:00:46,640 --> 02:00:50,880 Speaker 1: a little weird, you know. Um, I pay my ten 2300 02:00:50,920 --> 02:00:52,920 Speaker 1: dollars a month for Spotify, and so it is my 2301 02:00:53,000 --> 02:00:57,000 Speaker 1: son and he probably listens to ten times as much 2302 02:00:57,040 --> 02:01:00,160 Speaker 1: on Spotify as I do. So I might listen to 2303 02:01:00,200 --> 02:01:03,640 Speaker 1: my Bob Dylan, you know, once a week and somebody 2304 02:01:03,640 --> 02:01:06,360 Speaker 1: else is listening to Drake you know, a hundred or 2305 02:01:06,360 --> 02:01:09,800 Speaker 1: two hundred times a week, but it's the same ten dollars. 2306 02:01:09,880 --> 02:01:11,840 Speaker 1: So in that sense, Bob Dylan is kind of getting 2307 02:01:11,840 --> 02:01:15,800 Speaker 1: screwed because they're paying based on the quantity of streams, 2308 02:01:16,040 --> 02:01:18,880 Speaker 1: not based Well, there was a study once, the studies 2309 02:01:18,880 --> 02:01:22,040 Speaker 1: about five years old at this point, where they allocated 2310 02:01:22,040 --> 02:01:24,360 Speaker 1: it the way you're talking about it, and actually the 2311 02:01:24,440 --> 02:01:27,280 Speaker 1: revenue went down for those martial artists. Now that has 2312 02:01:27,320 --> 02:01:31,440 Speaker 1: not been redone since streaming is really gained traction. So 2313 02:01:31,480 --> 02:01:35,560 Speaker 1: it's really about the math. Look, it's it's it's there 2314 02:01:35,600 --> 02:01:39,760 Speaker 1: has to be a formula. Obviously. It's also a transition 2315 02:01:39,800 --> 02:01:42,400 Speaker 1: in terms of the record deals. When see these first 2316 02:01:42,440 --> 02:01:47,000 Speaker 1: came out, written into all the contracts was a packaging 2317 02:01:47,080 --> 02:01:50,040 Speaker 1: deduction of twenty five or thirty because of the cost 2318 02:01:50,080 --> 02:01:53,440 Speaker 1: of manufacturing see these. By the time those contracts were 2319 02:01:53,480 --> 02:01:55,960 Speaker 1: over see these went down from costing three dollars and 2320 02:01:56,000 --> 02:02:00,920 Speaker 1: fifty cents to manufacture to a quarter. So during these transitions, 2321 02:02:00,920 --> 02:02:04,760 Speaker 1: the record companies make make a big margin, and then 2322 02:02:04,800 --> 02:02:10,080 Speaker 1: as people renegotiate deals, these percentages you know obviously obviously changed. 2323 02:02:10,120 --> 02:02:11,840 Speaker 1: So part of it is that. Part of it is 2324 02:02:11,880 --> 02:02:16,480 Speaker 1: that the algorithm I think does favor um people with 2325 02:02:16,520 --> 02:02:19,280 Speaker 1: an appeal to younger audiences than people with an appeal 2326 02:02:19,280 --> 02:02:21,840 Speaker 1: to older audiences, because younger people are going to listen 2327 02:02:21,840 --> 02:02:24,440 Speaker 1: a lot more. But it's still only ten dollars a 2328 02:02:24,480 --> 02:02:27,200 Speaker 1: month if you listen to a five thousand streams a 2329 02:02:27,200 --> 02:02:30,720 Speaker 1: month or five streams a month. But I don't know. 2330 02:02:30,920 --> 02:02:32,680 Speaker 1: I'm not a math genius to know what to do 2331 02:02:32,760 --> 02:02:34,920 Speaker 1: about it. But there are people thinking about this, and 2332 02:02:34,960 --> 02:02:36,800 Speaker 1: I think we're gonna see some other models in the 2333 02:02:36,880 --> 02:02:39,040 Speaker 1: last in the next few years. But obviously it's going 2334 02:02:39,080 --> 02:02:42,760 Speaker 1: to become it's it's a big business. It's still gonna 2335 02:02:42,760 --> 02:02:44,440 Speaker 1: be a big business. I'm not sure i'll be the 2336 02:02:44,520 --> 02:02:46,560 Speaker 1: right person to have a leadership role in it, but 2337 02:02:46,640 --> 02:02:49,760 Speaker 1: I still think I can represent artists of the generation 2338 02:02:49,800 --> 02:02:54,000 Speaker 1: that I understand, and uh, I see things through the 2339 02:02:54,000 --> 02:02:56,960 Speaker 1: prison of my clients, So it depends on on who 2340 02:02:57,040 --> 02:02:59,240 Speaker 1: they are. But it certainly didn't die. You know, there 2341 02:02:59,240 --> 02:03:01,120 Speaker 1: were a lot of people thought the record business was 2342 02:03:01,120 --> 02:03:04,040 Speaker 1: going to die. I didn't. It's definitely bigger than it 2343 02:03:04,120 --> 02:03:05,960 Speaker 1: was a couple of years ago because of the growth 2344 02:03:05,960 --> 02:03:09,480 Speaker 1: of streaming, and it's there. Streaming is nowhere near mature yet. 2345 02:03:10,160 --> 02:03:13,600 Speaker 1: You know, I think this whole idea of free has 2346 02:03:13,640 --> 02:03:15,560 Speaker 1: to go by the way side, you know. And this 2347 02:03:15,680 --> 02:03:18,880 Speaker 1: is a uh you know, when I got when I 2348 02:03:18,920 --> 02:03:23,240 Speaker 1: was in Atlantic, I mentioned earlier Stone Temple Pilots. Was 2349 02:03:23,320 --> 02:03:27,280 Speaker 1: this very important signing to me? And so they sold 2350 02:03:27,360 --> 02:03:29,280 Speaker 1: I think four million on a record and then there 2351 02:03:29,320 --> 02:03:33,160 Speaker 1: was a million four sold through the record clubs and 2352 02:03:33,240 --> 02:03:36,440 Speaker 1: the margin on the front line sales was like four 2353 02:03:36,520 --> 02:03:38,400 Speaker 1: dollars a unit or something. Once you were over a 2354 02:03:38,440 --> 02:03:41,480 Speaker 1: million units is very profitable because your marketing course weren't 2355 02:03:41,520 --> 02:03:44,680 Speaker 1: going up anymore. And on the record clubs the profit 2356 02:03:44,800 --> 02:03:47,480 Speaker 1: was like fifty cents. And I used to say, why 2357 02:03:47,480 --> 02:03:48,920 Speaker 1: are we doing this? Why are we doing this? And 2358 02:03:48,920 --> 02:03:50,600 Speaker 1: no one would ever answer the question, and there was 2359 02:03:50,640 --> 02:03:52,560 Speaker 1: nothing I could do about it was corporate decision. So 2360 02:03:52,560 --> 02:03:55,200 Speaker 1: then I get the PolyGram and now I'm reporting to 2361 02:03:55,240 --> 02:03:58,200 Speaker 1: Alan Levy, who's the worldwide head, not just not just 2362 02:03:58,240 --> 02:04:00,400 Speaker 1: a regional head. And I asked him the same question. 2363 02:04:01,240 --> 02:04:03,280 Speaker 1: I can't do a French accent, but he gave me 2364 02:04:03,360 --> 02:04:04,920 Speaker 1: one of these young men, let me explain to you 2365 02:04:04,960 --> 02:04:06,720 Speaker 1: how the world works. And you say, look, I get 2366 02:04:07,040 --> 02:04:09,400 Speaker 1: fifty million dollar advanced at the beginning of the year 2367 02:04:09,480 --> 02:04:12,160 Speaker 1: from the Columbia Records Club. I mean that might not 2368 02:04:12,200 --> 02:04:14,240 Speaker 1: be at that exact number, but something like they said, 2369 02:04:14,280 --> 02:04:16,120 Speaker 1: so I can plan my whole year. I know that 2370 02:04:16,200 --> 02:04:19,920 Speaker 1: for sure we're profitable. And he said, the lower the 2371 02:04:20,000 --> 02:04:23,000 Speaker 1: royalty the better because we have to split the royalty 2372 02:04:23,040 --> 02:04:26,680 Speaker 1: fifty fifty with the artists. But the unrecouped amount we keep. 2373 02:04:26,800 --> 02:04:29,920 Speaker 1: And I got another advance next year. That's how all 2374 02:04:29,960 --> 02:04:33,440 Speaker 1: these initial deals were done with Apple and Spotify and everything. 2375 02:04:33,600 --> 02:04:37,880 Speaker 1: I I know for sure, and and so that's um. 2376 02:04:37,920 --> 02:04:41,400 Speaker 1: That's a short term high for the labels, even though 2377 02:04:42,000 --> 02:04:45,280 Speaker 1: it undermines their long term model, because the long term 2378 02:04:45,280 --> 02:04:47,880 Speaker 1: model has to be people paying for it free. The 2379 02:04:47,960 --> 02:04:52,440 Speaker 1: advertising revenue generated is not remotely comparable to what it 2380 02:04:52,520 --> 02:04:54,880 Speaker 1: is to sell products. But if you're getting ten dollars 2381 02:04:54,880 --> 02:04:57,360 Speaker 1: a month, it's it's real. You know, you're multiplied by 2382 02:04:57,360 --> 02:05:00,280 Speaker 1: a billion people or whatever. Mark Tiger said, you can 2383 02:05:00,360 --> 02:05:03,240 Speaker 1: eventually do you know? That's a that's a that's a 2384 02:05:03,280 --> 02:05:05,560 Speaker 1: bigger business than the old c D business. So I 2385 02:05:05,600 --> 02:05:07,560 Speaker 1: think it's gonna be a big business. I don't know 2386 02:05:07,600 --> 02:05:09,480 Speaker 1: what role I'll play in it. But it ain't going away, 2387 02:05:09,960 --> 02:05:12,800 Speaker 1: and the live business has never gone away, and it's 2388 02:05:12,800 --> 02:05:15,680 Speaker 1: probably healthier than ever. The digital world makes it easier 2389 02:05:15,720 --> 02:05:19,200 Speaker 1: to superserve fans of individual artists, to identify them and 2390 02:05:19,240 --> 02:05:22,840 Speaker 1: find them cheaper to market to them, and we found 2391 02:05:22,840 --> 02:05:25,880 Speaker 1: that older people will pay a lot of money for 2392 02:05:26,040 --> 02:05:28,560 Speaker 1: that live experience, even though there's all these things you 2393 02:05:28,560 --> 02:05:31,480 Speaker 1: can do in a home theater and the quality gets 2394 02:05:31,480 --> 02:05:34,480 Speaker 1: better and better. There's something about being in a room 2395 02:05:34,520 --> 02:05:36,879 Speaker 1: full of people in real time, whether it's a sports 2396 02:05:36,880 --> 02:05:41,320 Speaker 1: event or a or a musical event, that is different 2397 02:05:41,400 --> 02:05:43,840 Speaker 1: from seeing it on a screen, and that has not 2398 02:05:43,960 --> 02:05:46,520 Speaker 1: going away. And so, you know, I think it's that 2399 02:05:46,640 --> 02:05:49,280 Speaker 1: people ask me, is there a music business young people 2400 02:05:49,320 --> 02:05:51,400 Speaker 1: come to you can? So yeah, I don't know. You know, 2401 02:05:51,440 --> 02:05:53,360 Speaker 1: you gotta get lucky, you gotta have hits. But it's 2402 02:05:53,440 --> 02:05:57,400 Speaker 1: it's not going away, okay, And you personally relevant music 2403 02:05:57,440 --> 02:06:00,839 Speaker 1: business maybe contained with the time you have on the planet, 2404 02:06:01,480 --> 02:06:04,880 Speaker 1: anything you want to do, any dreams, unfulfilled bucket list 2405 02:06:05,040 --> 02:06:11,640 Speaker 1: or certain desires. You know, I'm I'm really a bee 2406 02:06:11,680 --> 02:06:14,280 Speaker 1: here now, guy, you know, I mean that's that's my 2407 02:06:14,400 --> 02:06:18,080 Speaker 1: hippie roots are growing bigger and bigger as I get older. 2408 02:06:18,120 --> 02:06:20,720 Speaker 1: You know, it's not about taking LSD but some of 2409 02:06:20,720 --> 02:06:25,520 Speaker 1: the ideas that came with that about really you know, 2410 02:06:25,560 --> 02:06:29,720 Speaker 1: one of my heroes and the people you know, wrote 2411 02:06:29,720 --> 02:06:32,320 Speaker 1: a dedicated my last book too, is rondas you know, 2412 02:06:32,680 --> 02:06:38,280 Speaker 1: Richard Albert, originally the lsd UH spokesperson who then became 2413 02:06:38,320 --> 02:06:40,720 Speaker 1: a mystic and a teacher. And you know, to me, 2414 02:06:40,760 --> 02:06:42,640 Speaker 1: it's really about just trying to in the moment be 2415 02:06:42,680 --> 02:06:45,160 Speaker 1: a good person and do as good as I can 2416 02:06:45,480 --> 02:06:50,320 Speaker 1: and appreciate the moment. And uh, I'm really enjoying writing. 2417 02:06:50,480 --> 02:06:53,200 Speaker 1: I love working with you know, some of the artists 2418 02:06:53,240 --> 02:06:55,880 Speaker 1: I work with, I get paid very well. For some 2419 02:06:55,960 --> 02:06:58,000 Speaker 1: of them, I don't get paid anything for But as 2420 02:06:58,000 --> 02:07:01,200 Speaker 1: long as as long as I can feel I'm doing 2421 02:07:01,240 --> 02:07:04,040 Speaker 1: something useful in the moment, that's that's. That's that's I'm 2422 02:07:04,040 --> 02:07:06,960 Speaker 1: trying to think that way more and more and less 2423 02:07:06,960 --> 02:07:10,520 Speaker 1: and less about having a bucket list. I'm gonna I'm 2424 02:07:10,560 --> 02:07:14,240 Speaker 1: in a non bucket list mode. I'm I'm gonna be 2425 02:07:14,360 --> 02:07:17,080 Speaker 1: here now mode. Okay. Any regret that you didn't go 2426 02:07:17,120 --> 02:07:21,440 Speaker 1: to college? Oh goodness, yeah, I mean I'm so grateful 2427 02:07:21,680 --> 02:07:26,520 Speaker 1: for my life in general, and but boy, not having 2428 02:07:26,560 --> 02:07:29,840 Speaker 1: a college education. I mean, I'm pretty well read by 2429 02:07:29,920 --> 02:07:32,920 Speaker 1: just being you know, a didact, but not having that 2430 02:07:33,040 --> 02:07:37,440 Speaker 1: credential and not you know, foreclosed a lot of things 2431 02:07:37,520 --> 02:07:39,480 Speaker 1: that would have been probably interesting to do. But you 2432 02:07:39,520 --> 02:07:43,120 Speaker 1: can't do everything in life. And I definitely grateful for 2433 02:07:43,160 --> 02:07:45,200 Speaker 1: the life I've had so far, and so far so good. 2434 02:07:45,600 --> 02:07:47,360 Speaker 1: So it worked out for me. I'm very glad my 2435 02:07:47,440 --> 02:07:50,920 Speaker 1: kids both graduated from college and I told them that, 2436 02:07:51,000 --> 02:07:53,760 Speaker 1: I said, don't the path I walked on doesn't exist anymore, 2437 02:07:53,800 --> 02:07:55,880 Speaker 1: so I don't even think about that. The kids you 2438 02:07:55,880 --> 02:07:57,960 Speaker 1: today are very smart. They know there's the haves and 2439 02:07:58,000 --> 02:08:00,000 Speaker 1: the have nots, and they don't want to end up 2440 02:08:00,000 --> 02:08:04,400 Speaker 1: one of the half. Yeah, so I um, but yeah, 2441 02:08:04,520 --> 02:08:07,960 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just I like doing this podcast. I 2442 02:08:07,960 --> 02:08:11,320 Speaker 1: I like writing. I like working with Betty Lovette on 2443 02:08:11,400 --> 02:08:15,080 Speaker 1: her record of Dylan songs, and with Steve and Ben 2444 02:08:15,200 --> 02:08:16,840 Speaker 1: Lee and you know the people I get to work with, 2445 02:08:16,920 --> 02:08:19,720 Speaker 1: and I'm just trying to trying to do it one 2446 02:08:19,760 --> 02:08:21,480 Speaker 1: day at a time as much as I as much 2447 02:08:21,520 --> 02:08:23,600 Speaker 1: as I can. I I'm grateful for the rock and 2448 02:08:23,680 --> 02:08:25,720 Speaker 1: roll business though it gave me a place in the world, 2449 02:08:25,800 --> 02:08:28,839 Speaker 1: and as long as I can be of use to artists. 2450 02:08:29,320 --> 02:08:33,280 Speaker 1: I'm quite happy with that vocation, you know. So we'll we'll, 2451 02:08:33,360 --> 02:08:37,879 Speaker 1: we'll see what happens next. Well, we've heard your entire journey. Obviously, 2452 02:08:37,960 --> 02:08:41,680 Speaker 1: there's much more depth underneath all these peaks that would 2453 02:08:41,720 --> 02:08:44,520 Speaker 1: be interesting, but we only have a limited period of time. Danny, 2454 02:08:44,560 --> 02:08:46,440 Speaker 1: thanks so much for coming and being on the podcast. 2455 02:08:46,800 --> 02:08:49,880 Speaker 1: So so pleased to do it with you. Until next time, 2456 02:08:50,200 --> 02:08:53,160 Speaker 1: it's Bob left Sets here tune in doing the Bob 2457 02:08:53,240 --> 02:09:00,720 Speaker 1: Left Sets podcast once again. That was then Goldberg on 2458 02:09:00,800 --> 02:09:04,280 Speaker 1: this week's episode of the Bob Left Sets Podcast, recorded 2459 02:09:04,320 --> 02:09:08,160 Speaker 1: live at the tune In Studios in Venice, California. Thanks 2460 02:09:08,160 --> 02:09:11,520 Speaker 1: so much for listening. Don't hesitate to email me feedback 2461 02:09:11,800 --> 02:09:14,800 Speaker 1: at Bob at left sets dot com. Until next time, 2462 02:09:15,520 --> 02:09:16,600 Speaker 1: It's Bob left Sets