1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:01,720 Speaker 1: Who am I doing this for? 2 00:00:01,960 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 2: Is it for legacy preservation or right? You know, for 3 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 2: an audience who sees my father and me or my mom? 4 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 2: Is you know, a trailblazer? I got to keep holding 5 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,559 Speaker 2: the flame for her. So there's all those sort of 6 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 2: questions that I really had to wrestle with, and they 7 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 2: took a long time to figure out. 8 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 3: Welcome to Off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote. 9 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 3: I've known this guest since we were young, twenty thirty 10 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 3: somethings coming up in the news, running around Georgetown the 11 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 3: Hill like idiots, and it's been really fun to come 12 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 3: up together in this business and watch him become the 13 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,639 Speaker 3: man he is today. He's a journalist, he's a best 14 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 3: selling author, he's my friend. He's a Nantucket institution, He's 15 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 3: Luke Ressert. Welcome to off the Cup. 16 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,880 Speaker 2: You know, and I've not had such a wonderful intro 17 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: since I think you did the same thing on the 18 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 2: cycle in two thousand and eleven? Was it? 19 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: We'll get in twenty twelve. Those were great days. 20 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 4: We'll get into it. Oh we're going there, you're doing 21 00:00:58,120 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 4: ess I'm good, I'm good. 22 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: It's good to talk to you and it's so nice 23 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: to be with you. 24 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 3: So I always like to start with our guests by 25 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 3: asking what kind of kid were you? 26 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 2: That's a good question. I think I was a kid 27 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: who was very understanding of duty and I had two 28 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 2: very high performing parents, where the expectation was that you 29 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 2: had to give your best effort and achieve. But I 30 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 2: was also this in this will expose me a little 31 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 2: bit here. I was born on August twenty second, which 32 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 2: is something called the cusp of. 33 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: Exposure between Leo's and virgos. 34 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: Right, And I'm always say that I totally believe in astrology, 35 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 2: but there's something interesting here about the cusp of exposure 36 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 2: because you exhibit these Leo tendencies where you like to 37 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: be loud, you like attention, but then you have that 38 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 2: Virgo problem where you want to be introverted and go away. 39 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 2: So it's almost like I perform and then I come 40 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: back into myself. 41 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 4: Right, Oh, that's so interesting. 42 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: And I would say that was sort of my childhood, 43 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 2: is that I was a popular kid. I liked by friends, 44 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: I liked to make teachers happy. I worked hard in 45 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,920 Speaker 2: school academics and athletics. But then as an only child 46 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 2: and on this custom exposure. I really relished my alone time. 47 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 2: So from a very young age, I would always do 48 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 2: what I had to do and then be very happy 49 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 2: to go off into my room by myself and play 50 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: with legos and play with you know, toy soldiers and 51 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 2: g I Joe's and whatnot, like I wasn't from a 52 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 2: young age. After school, my mom and be like, oh, 53 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 2: don't you want to have friends over? I was like, yeah, 54 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 2: well I saw him during the day. 55 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 1: It was cool. I was good. 56 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 2: But while we again, you know, it was enough. It 57 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 2: was enough and in a big adjustment for me being 58 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 2: an only child. You know, it was my freshman year 59 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 2: of college. When ever, forget this, like I had a 60 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:43,600 Speaker 2: roommate for the first time, and I had had, you know, 61 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: buddies who had stayed at our house for a long 62 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 2: periods of time where I had gone to camp with 63 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 2: kids and whatnot, so it wasn't like a complete culture shock, 64 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 2: but having the real roommate for you know, a whole 65 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 2: school year was a long time. And I remember kind 66 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: of like month two or month three, I just came 67 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 2: in the room. I'm like, why is the remote control 68 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 2: not where I left it? Why are these all these 69 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 2: things moving around. Yeah, so that was a good adjustment 70 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 2: for me. Yeah, but yeah, that was kind of the 71 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 2: kid I was. It's sort of simultaneously like you like 72 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 2: to please people, but also very comfortable. 73 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: Being by myself and having my own time. You know. 74 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 3: I was also an only child on the CUSP and 75 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 3: that I like that description a lot. I can relate 76 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 3: to that description a lot. What was it like to 77 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:28,799 Speaker 3: grow up in Washington with like power parents. I mean, 78 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 3: most people know who your dad was. Your dad was 79 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 3: Tim Resler, at award winning journalist. 80 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 4: Your mom is. 81 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 3: Also a very accomplished Vanity Fair correspondent as well. 82 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 2: She is an investigative reporter and one of the first 83 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 2: female letters at Newsweek. 84 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: Really broke the glass ceiling. You know, it was interesting. 85 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: I think my parents did a very. 86 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 2: Good job of using official Washington for the benefits for 87 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 2: me in terms of how interesting the history is. You know, 88 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 2: being around presidents and senators and being on a first 89 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 2: name basis with them was an absolutely incredible thing that 90 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: I'm very privileged and lucky to have. But there is 91 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 2: also a real emphasis put on being what I would say, 92 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 2: you know, a real human being and like as in 93 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 2: you know, Little League and soccer and you have chores 94 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 2: and go pick up the garbage. And we kind of 95 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: lived this very i think, typical outside of my father's job, 96 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 2: at my mother's job, very American existence. You know, my 97 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 2: my friends and I would play in the alley, you know, 98 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: behind the house and you know it's the old you 99 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 2: remember this, like you come home when it gets dark. 100 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: That was the sort of rule Rock Creek Park in DC. 101 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:38,360 Speaker 2: We would build forts and things like. 102 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: That, we're out. 103 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 2: So like, I always knew that my upbringing was abnormal, 104 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 2: because a little bit abnormal because I remember being about 105 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 2: like nine or ten years old and going over to 106 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 2: a friend's house and realizing, oh, like, my friend's dad 107 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 2: doesn't come at me from a little box with the screen, 108 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 2: and my friend's mom isn't like, you know, writing about 109 00:04:57,160 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 2: Michael Jackson and his station charge. But all that being said, 110 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: like my parents really did this idea of trying to 111 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 2: ground me and this idea of you know, you always love, 112 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 2: but you're never entitled. So it was an interesting upbreat though, 113 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 2: because I was simultaneously aware of being in this power structure, 114 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 2: but also my parents been like, you know, don't get 115 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 2: too caught up into that because there's a lot of 116 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 2: sleeves in it. 117 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, I. 118 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 3: Moved to d C in like twenty thirteen for a 119 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 3: job and also to be with my husband, Goodie, who. 120 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,320 Speaker 5: You know, Well, he's I'm a fine American fellow. Okay, sure, 121 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 5: I'm for sure of men. We love him he is. 122 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 3: But I found just in a few years that I 123 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 3: lived there, coming from New York City. Sure, I mean 124 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 3: it's a very insular town where obviously politics is the 125 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 3: main event. And I remember I'd like go have drinks 126 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 3: with John and his friends after work, and like I 127 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 3: was done with politics, and no one else was, Like 128 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 3: all they wanted to talk about was politics, and like 129 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 3: I remember just feeling like do we have to talk 130 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,559 Speaker 3: about the cr over dinner? But like that's the town, 131 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 3: Like did you feel that way? 132 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:08,919 Speaker 1: But I think there's a degree of that. 133 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 2: But I also think that if like you live here 134 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 2: and you have a family here, and you sort of 135 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: get into the school vibe and all that. Yeah, there's 136 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 2: a lot of people who don't work in politics. A 137 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 2: lot of my friends' parents, some of them would be 138 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 2: indirectly working for the government, where there was like well 139 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,599 Speaker 2: they worked for the FDA, as a lawyer, like the 140 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 2: civil servant. But there's a lot of people who worked, 141 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 2: you know, as doctors or lawyers, and politics would come up, 142 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 2: but it wasn't omnipresent. And it was interesting that you 143 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 2: bring that up because one of the things that my 144 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 2: father tried to do is really turn off after a 145 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 2: certain point. 146 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: And a lot of that would be you know. 147 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 2: With friends of his who were from college you just 148 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 2: sort of talk on the phone with for for a 149 00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 2: long periods of time. But there is this Italian restaurant 150 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,479 Speaker 2: that he liked that was kind of by NBC where 151 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 2: literally kind of Fridays he would go by himself and 152 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 2: have a big pizza and salad in the corner and 153 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: just chat to the guy who owned the place, who 154 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 2: was this Italian, little about American politics and just sort 155 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 2: of talk about life. 156 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 4: Yeah. 157 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: So there you got to find your your your breaks. 158 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 2: And I'm fortunate that the kids I went to high 159 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 2: school with, you know, politics exists, but the more the 160 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 2: conversations are about you know, sports and pop culture and 161 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 2: other things of that nature, you gotta find those. 162 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 3: You gotta find that in this business because people know you. 163 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: But it's hard. But it's hard if you don't even 164 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: grow up here though. 165 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 2: That's the thing, Like, I'm very fortunate because I grew 166 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 2: up here around this, But if you come in as 167 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 2: an outsider, you're automatically put in that sort. 168 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: Of political box. A lot of the times, it's just hard. 169 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 4: I totally was. 170 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 3: And you know, especially when you're a front face like 171 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 3: public person, that's how you're identified by people, and they 172 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 3: want to talk politics with you. 173 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 4: I find you know, I I so. 174 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 2: This real quick on yes, like the thing that drove 175 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,320 Speaker 2: my father crazy, and it drives me crazy. 176 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: It's like, well, what do you really think? I don't 177 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: want to talk about this, Like. 178 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 4: Ask me anything else as anything else, And. 179 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 2: Like you meet celebrities and they're the same way. And 180 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 2: like like whenever I see an athlete, if I'm fortunate 181 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 2: enough to me like an athlete who I like, I 182 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 2: will bring up anything else. I'll be You're like, hey, 183 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 2: I've been to your hometown. Do you like that taco place? 184 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 2: And they're like, yes, yes, you're right. 185 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: It's like anything besides the. 186 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 4: Ilse, but they do. 187 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 3: And I've had you know, we've were doing a lot 188 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 3: of these episodes. I've I've done a lot of these 189 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 3: episodes with celebrities and I can tell they just really 190 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 3: want to talk about politics, but. 191 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 4: This podcast is not a political podcast. And I can 192 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 4: tell they're like there's a disappointment. 193 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: Well that's of course, Like that's the irony. Yes, there's 194 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: a lot of those celebrities. They love politics. 195 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 2: Because it gives them an escape, right from what they're 196 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 2: usually having to talk about. 197 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 4: Yes, but it's not an escape for me. 198 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: And then some of them are like really into it. 199 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 2: I will not name them that I've become a text 200 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 2: friend with somewhat of a decently large celebrity and they're 201 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 2: asking me stuff about like the cr and I'm like, whoa, 202 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 2: aren't you like promoting and that's like special right now, 203 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 2: Like this is way more than save the Whales and like, 204 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 2: you know, get out the vote. It's I'm very interested 205 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:01,520 Speaker 2: in the minutia of Yeah, the budget negotiations from the 206 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 2: House Appropriations Committee. 207 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 3: I mean, who yeah, you know I get a lot 208 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 3: of that too, And you have to indulge it because 209 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 3: I if I meet a celebrity chef, like right, I 210 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 3: love I love. 211 00:09:12,480 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 4: Food and restaurants, I want to talk about food. 212 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 3: I'm sure they don't. I want to know what your 213 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 3: favorite restaurant is I'm sure. 214 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 1: They're frustrating, right, Yeah, I get it. 215 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:25,840 Speaker 3: You and my husband have a lot in common, yeah, 216 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 3: which is probably why you guys, you know, came friends 217 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 3: and you were in similar, similar fields. But one thing 218 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 3: that you have in common is you both lost your 219 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 3: dad's very young in your twenties. How does that imprint 220 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 3: on a man? 221 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: It's tough? 222 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 2: Uh, you know, it's a real central theme in my 223 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 2: book Look for Me There and when I lost my 224 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 2: father of twenty two, a lot of the male figures 225 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 2: in my life who were very sweet and very kind, 226 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 2: but the common refrain was dig down, be tough. 227 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: You know, you'll get through it. Be there for mom, 228 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: you know, keep the faith, hold strong, et cetera. And 229 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:06,199 Speaker 1: that's great. 230 00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 2: You know, I played football for six seven years in baseball, Like, 231 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 2: I totally understand where that comes from. 232 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 1: But it leaves a void. 233 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is that if you're 234 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 2: just tough and you're not really exploring emotion, it lingers 235 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 2: and you don't know what lingers, and you don't know 236 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 2: what that is. Why am I anxious? Why is there 237 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 2: something that leaves me unfulfilled? Why do I feel kind 238 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 2: of lost? 239 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: And for me, that ended. 240 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 2: Up really being grief and never exploring that idea of grief. 241 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 2: And the reason why I wasn't exploring that idea of 242 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 2: grief is of twofold one was I just didn't want 243 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 2: to because it was painful. But also I had been 244 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 2: conditioned to think that vulnerability, especially at that age, was 245 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 2: just something you could not show quickly or even if 246 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 2: you were to do it privately. You know, what woman 247 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 2: is going to want to be with a guy who's 248 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 2: here crying his eyes out every single night because he's lost, Right, 249 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 2: It's just sort of something where you don't think that 250 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 2: that's necessarily okay. And it took me many years to realize, well, actually, no, 251 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 2: you do need to explore that because to be the 252 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 2: best version of yourself, to be a husband and you know, 253 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 2: father or whatever, you have to get into that part 254 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: of yourself. 255 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: So I think it's hard. I think it's gotten better, 256 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:20,040 Speaker 1: you know, since John and I had gone through that. 257 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,760 Speaker 2: I think that it's much better in this day and 258 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 2: age where we're more open. 259 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: To talking about that. 260 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know, two thousand and eight that was 261 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 2: still very much a macho time in our culture. 262 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:32,800 Speaker 3: And on this podcast we talk a lot about mental 263 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 3: health because I'm open about my struggles with mental health. 264 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and God love you for doing that. I think 265 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:38,880 Speaker 2: you've been an inspiration to me and a lot. 266 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 1: Of people for that. 267 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 4: Thank you. I appreciate that. Did you seek mental health 268 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 4: treatment through any of this? 269 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: No? Sure, sure, I'm a big believer in therapy. 270 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 2: I think one of the things that it does is 271 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 2: it's sort of twofold, is it won you know, nothing 272 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,880 Speaker 2: is off limits, so you could just sort of get 273 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 2: out things that have been stored away for so long 274 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 2: that have been caught and problems. But then I think 275 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 2: what it's really helpful for is identifying patterns and then also, Okay, 276 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 2: what can you do to be the best version of 277 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,319 Speaker 2: yourself when you know these things are coming? 278 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 4: Yeah? 279 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 2: So there's some things you can't control it. There's emotions 280 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 2: you can't control are going to come out, but I 281 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 2: do think that you can kind of control how you 282 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 2: react to them at the end of the day. 283 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: Right, So it's like something is going to make you angry, Yes, 284 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: but how do you react to that? 285 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 2: Yes? 286 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, And that is something which therapy has been so 287 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:28,840 Speaker 1: helpful for. 288 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 3: And why are you reacting this way? Is a thing 289 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,719 Speaker 3: that I found important to identify too. I suffer from 290 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 3: severe anxiety, and I had some very terrible, unhealthy patterns 291 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 3: that I actually wasn't aware of that I thought, we're 292 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 3: keeping me safe, things like catastrophizing, thinking of the worst 293 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 3: thing possible to happen, and if I thought about it, 294 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,000 Speaker 3: it wouldn't happen, and if I didn't think about it, 295 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,360 Speaker 3: it would happen. What were some of your patterns when 296 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 3: you were kind of in an unhealthy place? 297 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 2: I think, Uh, probably the worst one for me was 298 00:13:06,679 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 2: just this idea of you, you know, you gotta stick 299 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 2: through it even if it kills you, like you know, 300 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 2: if you're And I talked about this one moment in 301 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 2: the book where it was this super stressful time on 302 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 2: Capitol Hill and I was on TV a bunch and 303 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 2: there was just a lot going on and there was 304 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 2: a lot of incoming and I I essentially fall over 305 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 2: in the hallway walking from one of the house office 306 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 2: buildings to the Capitol. Uh just not just sort of 307 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: give out, exasperated, full on panic attack, just just overdone. 308 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 2: And this guy kind of sees me and he's like, 309 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 2: are you okay? I was like, oh, I just I 310 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 2: just lost my footing, and I went and I walked 311 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 2: to the camera and did the hit shaking, and in 312 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 2: my mind it was, well, that's that's the job you 313 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 2: gotta do, right, because there's a there's millions of other 314 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 2: people that would kill for this position, and you know, 315 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 2: pick it up and just do it and and you 316 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 2: know you'll get over it eventually. 317 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: And I think that sort of storming Nor and that 318 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: sort of just power through white knuckle as it's called yep, 319 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 1: was something that was very harmful because look, you know, 320 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: you can easy, you can get through it, and then 321 00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: you calm down a little bit and you're like ha 322 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: ha ha. But then you think, man, like here I am, 323 00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: I'm just doing something which is my job, and I'm 324 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: feeling all these things. Why is that? And storming Nor? 325 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 1: Not until years later you go, okay, this is all 326 00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 1: related to something. Why is that? 327 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 4: Truly? 328 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 3: And I was forty early forties when I had like 329 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 3: a total nervous breakdown because I'd been doing just that 330 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 3: for so many years. And I always say I wish 331 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 3: I had known what I was doing earlier, to catch 332 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 3: it before it became so ingrained in my life and 333 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 3: what I did, especially in this job just pushing, pushing through. 334 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 4: A few years later, twenty. 335 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 3: Fourteen, you lose a a good friend, Corey Griffin. 336 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:04,880 Speaker 4: What happened? 337 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:09,479 Speaker 2: So Corey had come to actually visit me on Nantucket 338 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 2: and there is a charity fundraiser for the Boys and 339 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,400 Speaker 2: Girls Club. It's a big dinner and that's actually named 340 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 2: after my late father. It's a lot of fun. And 341 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 2: he had come for that, and he had actually celebrated 342 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 2: my birthday the night before, and I was tired because 343 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 2: I had to perform at this dinner the next night, 344 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 2: essentially being the sort of MC and he wanted to 345 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 2: go out and find a date for it. 346 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: And there is a tradition Nantucket. 347 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: There's a building called the Ulcerve Building versus right by 348 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: where the ferry comes in, so it's very deep there, 349 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 2: it's dredged and people jump off of it. It's sort 350 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 2: of like a rite of passage, you know, kids jump 351 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,480 Speaker 2: off of bridges and whatnot. So they had gone and 352 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 2: done that and it did something they had done before, 353 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 2: Corey and a few other friends of ours, And when 354 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 2: he jumped, it was a sort of freak thing, which 355 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 2: was the force of his body went onto his neck 356 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 2: and he ended up drowning from it and killing him, 357 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 2: which was very tragic. And he had his wits about 358 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 2: him and wasn't like he was drunk jumping off. It's 359 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 2: just something that people have done like hundreds not thousands 360 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 2: of times up there, total freak thing, and it was 361 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 2: incredibly painful because I you know, there's something surreal about 362 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 2: eating dinner with somebody who's twenty seven years old and 363 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 2: then two hours later they're gone. I mean, that's just 364 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: that's a feeling I've never really been able to quite wrap. 365 00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: My head around. But what that did was kind of 366 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: two things. 367 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 2: It was one that reminded me that just how you know, 368 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 2: time really is finite, but also you know, there might 369 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 2: not be as much time as you think, right, And 370 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,120 Speaker 2: it's this idea of all right, the light at the 371 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 2: end of the tunnel is a little bit closer. And 372 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 2: he was someone who really valued experience in something where 373 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 2: he was like, oh, he's in Montana, or he's you know, 374 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 2: down in the Galapagos, or he's surfing in Portugal. 375 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: I mean, he was doing all these things. 376 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 2: I was covering the weekend White House shift for the 377 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 2: budget negotiation. 378 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 4: Right, yeah. 379 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just one of those things where I 380 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,440 Speaker 1: was like, you know, wow, in twenty seven years, he's 381 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: lived way more than I have, way more than I have, 382 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: and taken a lot more risks to the betterment of life. 383 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 2: And it got me thinking about just the sort of 384 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:23,920 Speaker 2: where you are in life and time and what's important. 385 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:26,920 Speaker 4: I mean, that's a lot of loss at a young age. 386 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 4: And you talk about grief a lot. 387 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 3: I know Anderson Cooper, a colleague, talks about grief a lot. 388 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 3: I'm so glad that you guys do because it helps 389 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 3: other people process their own grieving. But does that become 390 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:41,360 Speaker 3: something that can define you grief? 391 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: Sure. 392 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,480 Speaker 2: I Mean one of the things that still sticks out 393 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 2: to me is and this was sort of hard. This 394 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 2: is kind of one of the reasons why I needed 395 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:56,400 Speaker 2: some time away from for media was I was sitting 396 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 2: on Capitol Hill. I was eating a lunch outside of 397 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 2: the front of mine and this lady just comes up 398 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 2: and start sobbing, and she gives me this big hug 399 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 2: and is you know, like, I loved your dad so much, 400 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 2: and you know, I see him and you and you know, 401 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 2: thank you for being you. And immediately I just got 402 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 2: up and hugged her, and you know, totally normal encounter 403 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 2: for me and I sat down to lunch and my friend, 404 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 2: she goes. 405 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: That didn't affect you less, That wasn't weird to you. 406 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: It's like you were almost. 407 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 2: Preconditioned to sort of get up and be the comforter 408 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 2: for this person who doesn't know you, you've never met them. 409 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: They just starting you crying because they missed. 410 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 2: Your dad or something. And that was one of those 411 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 2: moments where I was like, yeah, I am kind of 412 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 2: defined by this to a degree. 413 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: Uh, you know, I gave a eulogy. Is what ended up. 414 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 2: Propelling my media career at that stage, and it's one 415 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,119 Speaker 2: of those things where I had to grow to be 416 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 2: more comfortable in my own skin, because here I was 417 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 2: helping all these other people out with grief for honestly, 418 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,160 Speaker 2: a lot of times someone they hadn't even met, they 419 00:18:58,160 --> 00:18:59,919 Speaker 2: just sort of knew through their screen, and I had 420 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 2: processed it myself. 421 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was hard, and that was really really hard. 422 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 2: And so I think that was something which propelled me 423 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,679 Speaker 2: to your point, which was you can always be defined 424 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:13,440 Speaker 2: by grief in some degree, but you got to define 425 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 2: on your own terms. And I think what Anderson has 426 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 2: done is like, all right, let's explore this. 427 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, and Cole Beart has done that too in a 428 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 1: really meaningful way. Let me explore this. 429 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, and they've done it together, which is really yeah. 430 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 1: Which is really cool. 431 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:35,360 Speaker 6: Yeah. 432 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 3: Okay, So you get hired very soon after your dad 433 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,199 Speaker 3: dies to work at NBC News where he worked. What 434 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:41,959 Speaker 3: was it like coming to work where he had been 435 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 3: such an institution. 436 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 2: So simultaneously incredibly comforting and then also just very difficult. 437 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 2: And I think that was a sort of push and pull, 438 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 2: which was that there was a lot of people there 439 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 2: who I knew a very young age were rooting for me. 440 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,199 Speaker 2: There was a lot of people there who were, you know, 441 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 2: who is this little snot nos and he shouldn't be here, 442 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 2: and you know, screw him. 443 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: So it was a sort of tough sledding. But I 444 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 1: do think. 445 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 2: That what I came to realize early on in that 446 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,719 Speaker 2: job was that nobody, you know, my last name, had 447 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,680 Speaker 2: got me through the door, got my foot in the door, 448 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,960 Speaker 2: but I was gonna have to get myself through yeah, 449 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 2: And that was a very difficult task because I had 450 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 2: to take a lot of incoming on and I couldn't 451 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 2: say anything because I'm allowed to complain. 452 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: Right, So if you. 453 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 2: If you're a privileged person and you're complaining, then you've 454 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,479 Speaker 2: you've just shot yourself in the foot numerous times. So 455 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 2: I think that was hard, especially for someone who was 456 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 2: going through grief. But I will you know, as I 457 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 2: say in the book, though, it also kind of gave 458 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 2: me an edge a little bit. So is this sort 459 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 2: of the this push and pull where yeah, I probably 460 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 2: should be grieving, I probably should be going over lost, 461 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 2: but also, all. 462 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,240 Speaker 1: Right, the greatest free cure for misery's hard work. 463 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,080 Speaker 2: I'm gonna throw myself into this, improve myself and just 464 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 2: keep going and going and going, going and up let 465 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 2: them get the best of me. So it almost gave 466 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,359 Speaker 2: me sort of a competition to do. But yeah, at 467 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 2: the end of the day, that's very unhealthy because if 468 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 2: if you're going to a job to prove somebody else 469 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 2: wrong every day, Yeah, yeah, the people who do that 470 00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 2: are it's like the Michael Jordan Tom Brady persona, right, 471 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 2: And you look at those guys like they always have 472 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 2: to find competition because they. 473 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: Can't they can't live unless there's a competition. 474 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 2: They're competing and trying to beat someone, and that gets 475 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 2: that gets really heavy, It gets really heavy. 476 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, was anyone like nasty to your face. 477 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: Very rarely. 478 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 2: And I think that's what angered me the most is 479 00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,040 Speaker 2: that there's a lot of people who would be keyboard 480 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 2: warriors and then you know, be so welcoming and kind right, 481 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 2: or expect me to be nice to them. And I 482 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 2: remember one person specifically had written some very nasty things 483 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 2: and then I kind of like they came up to 484 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:56,120 Speaker 2: me and tried to shake my hand. 485 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: I'm like, screw it, dude. 486 00:21:58,480 --> 00:21:59,760 Speaker 2: Well what And then I was like, well, you know, 487 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 2: this is just all a big game, and I'm like, no, 488 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 2: it's not a game, Like I'm so sorry. When when 489 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 2: hundreds of people are retweeting something you said, it's like, yeah, 490 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 2: this is And I think there's an element of that 491 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 2: where the worst people in our profession kind of just 492 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 2: think it's. 493 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,719 Speaker 1: Like all one big joke, yeah, and it's not. 494 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 2: I mean, people in the media have real feelings, but 495 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 2: also the viewers have feelings. The readers have feelings, like 496 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 2: people are people, and you shouldn't be in it just 497 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 2: to for self promotion and to like be part of 498 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 2: the scene. You should be doing a service to people 499 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 2: at the end of the day. 500 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 3: And some people define like winning at work is like 501 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 3: punching up. 502 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, and like or I showed them or what yeah? Yeah, 503 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 5: yeah for sure. 504 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 3: Okay, so you get some chops covering Capitol Hill and 505 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,880 Speaker 3: we were there at the same time for a year. 506 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 3: I had that show called The Cycle, and we'd have 507 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 3: you on to report on Capitol Hill stuff or even 508 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 3: sometimes fun stuff. 509 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: I got to guess host sometimes and you did. 510 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 2: Right. 511 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 4: Do you remember this? 512 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 3: I had this memory as I was thinking back, and 513 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 3: that was a really fun year. 514 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 4: But it was a quick year. Did we I feel 515 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 4: like we had a nickname for you. 516 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: I feel like we called you said Broser. 517 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I didn't invent this, and we had we 518 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 3: gave our regulars nicknames like I think Jonathan Allen was 519 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 3: Jay Dogg. These nicknames weren't good, nor did they stick. 520 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 3: But I'm right right, we called you Broser you did? 521 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: Yes? Yes? 522 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 4: Was that affectionate? 523 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: I hope it was. 524 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 2: Affection You know, here's the thing, like I said to 525 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,119 Speaker 2: Steve Freeman, who is the EP of that Yeah, I know, 526 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 2: I kind of like this because you're taking what is 527 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 2: what is a common critique, like, oh, here's this stupid 528 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 2: you know, floppy haired Frapp boy on TV. 529 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: Talking and I'm allowed to own it a little bit. 530 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: So I kind of liked that, you know. 531 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, it's like, let's. 532 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: Lean into it. 533 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 2: And then you know who was it was really funny 534 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 2: with that too, is with it was Alex Wagner and 535 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 2: we would just. 536 00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: Have fun on it. 537 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,760 Speaker 2: Gs in here comes here are resident bo shoe wearing 538 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 2: preppy Right, yeah, I go, okay, like let's take it 539 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,719 Speaker 2: because interesting enough, you know, now that I'm back at him, 540 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,479 Speaker 2: I SNBC in some capacity, MSNBC. 541 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 1: Viewers back then were a lot angrier. 542 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 2: They're like sweeter now, and I think it's just because 543 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 2: people have like lived through the last you know, nine years, 544 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,840 Speaker 2: and it's sort of like, okay, you know, we gotta 545 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 2: we got a hold together if we're gonna get through 546 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,479 Speaker 2: all this, right, But like back then, it was like 547 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 2: it's still in the infancy of social media. 548 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: Oh my god, it was so vicious. 549 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 2: It was so vicious, and that's what the apps would 550 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 2: like cycle the neat stuff away from you. Now they 551 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,160 Speaker 2: cycle it away from you. But back then it would 552 00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 2: be like, first and foremost, you. 553 00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 4: Know, trust me as as the token conservative. 554 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 3: I remember that's the place that said I loved working 555 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 3: at MS. It was especially then it was so like 556 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 3: creative and fun. They let me do things that had 557 00:24:55,119 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 3: nothing to do with anything, like I had I had 558 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 3: a squatch, a sasquatch collar on. 559 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 4: Once I got to go hunt with the guys from 560 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 4: Duck Dynasty, like I remember that politics. 561 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was fun. I remember your Duck Dynasty thing. 562 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: That was cool. 563 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 4: It was really fun. 564 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 3: We had a lot of freedom, which sometimes felt a 565 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 3: little scary like our adults in charge of this, but 566 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,959 Speaker 3: it was also very empowering because we were young and 567 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 3: we we were given so much leeway to go out 568 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:27,439 Speaker 3: and do stuff. 569 00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 4: It was so fun. 570 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 2: It was, and honestly, I think that if you look 571 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 2: at where the network is now, it was really come 572 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 2: born out of that experimentation of the era, Like that 573 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 2: ton of two thousand and seven to twenty thirteen fourteen 574 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 2: era was so was so cool. 575 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: There's so many things going on there and the people 576 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: who come out. 577 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 2: I mean, you remember when Karnaki was just kind of 578 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 2: this like wonderfully loving, dorky guy who played around of poles, 579 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 2: and now he's like a sex symbol, so you know, 580 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 2: it's incredible stuff. 581 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 4: I can't think of him that way. It was a 582 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 4: great time. 583 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 3: So twenty sixteen, two Outsiders, you abruptly resign, You say 584 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,880 Speaker 3: you need to evaluate your career opportunities. 585 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 4: Was that abrupt for you or had you been planning 586 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:14,199 Speaker 4: to do that? 587 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 2: No? I had been thinking about it for over a 588 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 2: year change at that point. I tell a story in 589 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,400 Speaker 2: the book about All People. House speaker John Bayner gave 590 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 2: me inspiration, and he had saw me. 591 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 4: I love that guy. 592 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: He's a great American. 593 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 2: And he saw me in the hallway and he said, hey, 594 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,480 Speaker 2: you know, loudmouth. He's called me loudmouth when he also 595 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 2: called me shithead, which I think we can say on this. 596 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 2: So yeah, okay, And so he stopped me in the 597 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 2: hallway and he goes, you know, I want to talk 598 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 2: to you. 599 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: I said sure. 600 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 2: He calls me into the office and I go down 601 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 2: there and he goes, what are you doing here? 602 00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 1: You invited me into your office? Was like some Jesuit 603 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 1: mind game, right, you know what are you doing here? 604 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: He goes, what are you doing here? On Capitol Hill? 605 00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 2: He goes, you've been here seven years? You know the 606 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 2: place like that your hand. You know, there's always going 607 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 2: to be an up and down the next budget fight, 608 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:04,959 Speaker 2: the next election. 609 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: There's always a he said, great line. 610 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 2: He goes, there's a merry go round of women and 611 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 2: parties and guys to drink with bah blah. Is you 612 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,719 Speaker 2: need to go somewhere you can learn how to do something. 613 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 2: You know, this gets too easy for you. It's just 614 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 2: a constant kind of churn in cycle that is so 615 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,880 Speaker 2: removed from how the country. 616 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: Really is or how the world is. 617 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 2: He goes, you might be well served to get out 618 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 2: here and you know, go see something else or try 619 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 2: something else. And what was really impactful about that was 620 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:35,440 Speaker 2: he had a very similar upbringing to my father. They're 621 00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,159 Speaker 2: both working class Catholic kids from the Rust Belt. He 622 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 2: was from Cincinnati. He paid his way through school, just 623 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,239 Speaker 2: like my dad did. And it was almost like this 624 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 2: sort of validation like you know, I know that, almost 625 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 2: a paternal validation, like you've worked hard, man, you earned it, 626 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 2: you did it. Like if you want some time to 627 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 2: go do something else, don't be afraid to take it, 628 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 2: or if you want to go do something completely radical, 629 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 2: go learn something else. And so that happened in the 630 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 2: spring of twenty fifteen, and that kind of got my 631 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 2: my brain in that place where these feelings that I'm 632 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 2: having about not wanting to do this anymore, about seeing 633 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 2: something different, about doing something different, or even just understanding 634 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 2: who I am, Like what do I really want to 635 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 2: do this? 636 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 4: Yeah? 637 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 2: And then what But I was like, you know, this 638 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 2: could just be jitters. I'm turning thirty, a quarter life crisis, 639 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 2: blah blah blah blah. But it was those feelings were there. 640 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:31,239 Speaker 2: They kept popping up, They kept popping up. You know, 641 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 2: who are you beyond Capitol Hill? Who are you beyond 642 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 2: the privilege of your last name in this Bubby you 643 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 2: living in Washington? 644 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: Who really? Who are you really? 645 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 2: And the thing that was the determining factor which kind 646 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 2: of pushed me out the door was it was around 647 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 2: June of twenty sixteen and I had done this story 648 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 2: about a veteran's issue on Capitol Hill. It's a nine 649 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 2: to eleven health care funding It was something I was 650 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,360 Speaker 2: very proud of and did all this work on, and. 651 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 1: Very tough story. 652 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 2: Where dealing with people who are in different stages of sickness, 653 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 2: and it was emotionally a difficult story to do and 654 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 2: I'm all excited to do it, and they said, sorry, 655 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,560 Speaker 2: we have to bump you we're gonna take Donald Trump's 656 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 2: reaction to the shooting death of Harambe the Gorilla alive. 657 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: And I just said, you know, I think it's time. 658 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: I think it's time. I'm out. Yeah. 659 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 2: That was That was about a month before my contract 660 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 2: was up. But it was awkward because they're like, oh, 661 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 2: so we should talk contract. 662 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,080 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's just give me. 663 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: I'm busy on the hill blah blah blah blah blah. 664 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,560 Speaker 2: And then I was just like that was I'm good 665 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 2: because you could see what was happening in media, and 666 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 2: to me it was divine intervention to a degree. It 667 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:49,520 Speaker 2: was like, okay, totally Bay to you, Brombay, here happened, 668 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: Like yeah, go you're good. Yeah, you're you're You're not 669 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:53,320 Speaker 2: gonna miss a lot. 670 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 4: So did you plan to be gone as long as 671 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 4: you were gone? 672 00:29:57,680 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: No? 673 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 2: No, I thought it would be like six months a 674 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 2: year at most. And I think what ended up happening 675 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 2: was sort of two things. Was one, I really enjoyed 676 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,000 Speaker 2: the travel and it just became addictive because it was 677 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:12,040 Speaker 2: so interesting. But two, I came to realize that there 678 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 2: is a lot more for me to figure out than 679 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 2: I had ever anticipated. And part of the reason why 680 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 2: is I had I got to a point where I 681 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 2: realized that from a young age, I had just been 682 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 2: programmed to achieve. Yeah, and I had, you know, it 683 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 2: was if I wasn't at school, then it was at 684 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 2: extra career lears, or then I was at summer camps, 685 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,000 Speaker 2: and then it was a you know, one of the 686 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 2: big things my parents had me do is starting at 687 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,160 Speaker 2: fourteen I could legally work, was like go getting real 688 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 2: jobs in the summer with intense manual labor. So there's 689 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 2: always this sort of like there's no idle time, like move, move, move, Kiev, achieve, achieve. 690 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 2: You always got to keep going and going going. So 691 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 2: when I walked away from NBC was actually like the 692 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 2: first time since oh my god, maybe like I was 693 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 2: seven years old, eight years old, where I felt like, Okay, 694 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 2: there's no massive responsibility over my head at the. 695 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,600 Speaker 1: Moment, you know. Yeah, And once I was in that space, 696 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: which is incredibly privileged place. 697 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 2: To be, but having the privilege of time, was Okay, 698 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 2: who am I doing this for? Was I was I 699 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 2: getting those grades from my parents or was I doing 700 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 2: it for me? Who am I working for? Is it 701 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 2: to for legacy preservation or you know, for an audience 702 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 2: who sees my father and me, or my mom is 703 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 2: you know, a trailblazer. 704 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: I got to keep holding the flame for her. So 705 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: there's all those sort of questions that I really had 706 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: to wrestle with, and they took a long time to 707 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 1: figure out. 708 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 3: I went through this too, like why does everything in 709 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 3: my life have to be a trophy of some kind? 710 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 3: Like from who I was dating, to where I was living, 711 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 3: to what I was doing to everything started to feel 712 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 3: like I was collecting success and for I lost sight 713 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 3: of for what, yeah, and. 714 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 2: For home, and there's a void, and there's that lingering void. 715 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 2: And I think what the travel did was it was 716 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 2: helping me answer those questions. But at some point you 717 00:31:58,160 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 2: start running away from it too. 718 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 4: Though, So did you do you know that you were 719 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 4: going to travel? 720 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 1: No, I didn't. You know. 721 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 2: My mom was a Peace Corps volunteer in the sixties 722 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 2: in Columbia and she built a school there as a 723 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 2: young woman in very macho culture. Basically, you know, it's 724 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 2: something which is unfathomable today. But when she graduated from college, 725 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,200 Speaker 2: she went to cal Berkeley, which a very progressive place, 726 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 2: and they told her at cal Berkeley in the sixties 727 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 2: and the mid sixties. Well, you know, you really got 728 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 2: to go be a paralegal or or if you want 729 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,160 Speaker 2: to see the world, you could be a flight attendant, 730 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 2: or a school teacher or a nurse. 731 00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: But that's really you know, what you can do. 732 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 2: Good of you to get a college degree. You will 733 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 2: be having more interesting conversations with your husband. But that's 734 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 2: what Berkeley was saying in like the early sixties. Okay, yeah, 735 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 2: so god, you can only imagine what like, you know, 736 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 2: Texas was saying, so right, so you have that. So 737 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 2: she's like, Okay, I'm gonna go join the Peace Corps 738 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 2: because that was her one way to get out and 739 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,120 Speaker 2: be her own person. And what she said to me was, 740 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 2: you know, I really was able to measure myself and 741 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 2: knew what I was about against the world. 742 00:32:58,680 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: Where I was in the Peace Corps. 743 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 2: But to do that, I had to leave the comfortable 744 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 2: environment that I had been born into. Yeah, and she's 745 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 2: always said that, you know, understanding different cultures and measuring 746 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 2: yourself up against the world was really healthy. 747 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 1: So she encouraged it. 748 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 2: And so I think part of me traveling was all right, 749 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 2: I'm tired of my mom telling me I. 750 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: Have to go travel. 751 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 2: Then all part of it was it was my friend Corey, 752 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 2: who had seen so much of the world in twenty 753 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 2: seven years, and I said, okay, you know there's something 754 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 2: something there. 755 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: So that got me going. 756 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 2: But I never thought it would be you know, six 757 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,400 Speaker 2: cotton in sixty seven countries three and a half years. 758 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: I mean that was that was a long time. 759 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 4: How much of that did you plan ahead? 760 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 3: And how much of that was Okay, tomorrow, I'm going 761 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 3: to go somewhere else. 762 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:43,960 Speaker 2: So I would always come back, you know, to d 763 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 2: C for periods of time to sort of save money 764 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 2: and you know, get get back into society a little bit. 765 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 2: Because I met a lot of nomads along the way. 766 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: They're just kind of perpetual travelers. 767 00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 2: And I knew that I didn't want to be one 768 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 2: of them because there there is a little bit of 769 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 2: burnout there. Some of them are very cool, but some 770 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 2: of them are just kind of lost. But what I 771 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,200 Speaker 2: realized is like, Okay, if I have this opportunity to 772 00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:11,239 Speaker 2: have this time, I really want to take advantage of it. 773 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 2: And I think it's one thing in my first trip 774 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 2: in Latin America that really inspired me was. I was 775 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 2: riding this bus in Patagonia and I looked around on 776 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,760 Speaker 2: the bus and there's about thirty people and there's about 777 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,120 Speaker 2: five or six kind of hippie nomads, and the rest 778 00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:32,640 Speaker 2: of the people were all retirees. And I looked at 779 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,839 Speaker 2: them and it's very very sweet people, retirees from kind 780 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:36,760 Speaker 2: of all around the world. 781 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,000 Speaker 1: And I realized. I was like, Okay, this is. 782 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 2: Like what they had worked for their entire lives, and 783 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:45,920 Speaker 2: this is the time they have left on earth, like 784 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,320 Speaker 2: they're doing these things. But I realized in that bus 785 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 2: and when I was there, I was like, I don't 786 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 2: want to be this age doing these things. I want 787 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 2: to be the age I am now, because it's going 788 00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 2: to be a lot more impactful, a lot more fun 789 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 2: to have these experiences now. So if I can do it, 790 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:02,320 Speaker 2: I'm gonna try. 791 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,359 Speaker 1: And I did. But it wears on you at some point, 792 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:06,919 Speaker 1: it does. 793 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,240 Speaker 4: I mean, also good to do it before kids, because. 794 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: Before kids and before marriage. 795 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 2: And honestly though, like what you just physically it's grueling 796 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 2: and uh, yeah, you know, there's a lot of miles 797 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 2: in the air, there's a lot of bumpy roads, and yeah, 798 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,880 Speaker 2: I tell people that I go because you know you 799 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 2: can fly, you can do it. 800 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: At a very high level and not experienced that. But 801 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:28,320 Speaker 1: I was. 802 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 2: I was sleeping in uh niker Roguin pig farms, like 803 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 2: on bags on piles of ship, like I really wanted 804 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 2: to get into it and feel it. 805 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: Uh so it can, it can, it can get to you. 806 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 3: So look for me there. It's a New York Times bestseller. 807 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 3: Did you have in mind that you would write a 808 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 3: book out of all of this or did that kind 809 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,000 Speaker 3: of cond So my. 810 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 2: Mother, you know, in twenty eighteen, so about a kind 811 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,200 Speaker 2: of I'd say about a year and a half, almost 812 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:08,200 Speaker 2: two years into this, she's like, you know, what are 813 00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,239 Speaker 2: you doing with your life? Kind of conversation, and I 814 00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 2: think she was very worried, and she's like, have you 815 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 2: been journaling? I said, well, actually, yeah, I have all 816 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 2: these journals and there's a lot in there. 817 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,280 Speaker 1: And she's like, well, you know, you should. 818 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 2: You should think about that. Maybe there's something you can 819 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:25,760 Speaker 2: do with it. And it's kind of dismissed her. It's like, okay, 820 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 2: you know whatever, I'm just going to keep journaling. Those 821 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 2: are for me, it's not really for anybody else. But 822 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 2: then I went through a kind of very difficult time 823 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 2: where I was like, what is this travel about? 824 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: You know? What am I doing here? 825 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,320 Speaker 2: Has has the sort of solution now become the problem. 826 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 2: Am I addicted to something? Which is all this clarity 827 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 2: that was supposed to be bringing me? It has brought 828 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 2: a lot of clarity, but also like, I don't know 829 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 2: when to stop. I don't know you know what I'm 830 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 2: really about more now two years later, I'm much more 831 00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 2: cultured and I'm much more worldly. But these questions about 832 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,719 Speaker 2: self expiration and self discovery that set out to answer 833 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 2: in the beginning, I don't have as good event an 834 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:03,680 Speaker 2: answer as I. 835 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:04,240 Speaker 1: Thought I would. 836 00:37:04,680 --> 00:37:06,960 Speaker 2: And so I started to review the journals, especially the 837 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 2: earlier ones, and I went back and reread them. I 838 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,600 Speaker 2: was like, oh my gosh, there's these two parallel tracks. 839 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 2: There's this one track of who am I independent of 840 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 2: the last name, the privileged bubble? Who am I independent 841 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 2: of this very odd but incredible life. 842 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,520 Speaker 1: That I was born into? But then the other one 843 00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,360 Speaker 1: was Okay, so I'm sort of searching for something there. 844 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,040 Speaker 2: But then I realized I was also running away from something, 845 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 2: and I was running away from processing the grief of 846 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 2: losing my father, and I was sitting in that grief 847 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 2: more than I ever had in each. 848 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,440 Speaker 1: Of these countries, but I hadn't really totally sat into it. 849 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,320 Speaker 2: And so when I started to realize that, I go, Okay, 850 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 2: I gotta start writing about this because there's something here 851 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 2: that can help somebody. And then I made this sort 852 00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 2: of decision to start writing it. And the woman who 853 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,640 Speaker 2: I'm now married to God love, she asked me a 854 00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 2: very simple question. 855 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,400 Speaker 1: She says, well, you know, why are you writing? 856 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,359 Speaker 2: Writing is kind of an egotistical thing, right, You're why 857 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:13,840 Speaker 2: would anyone want to read your book? 858 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,320 Speaker 1: Like? What are you putting out into the world? Right? 859 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,839 Speaker 2: And it just the answer came to me right there. 860 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 2: He said, you know, if some kid finds this in 861 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 2: the bargain bind at a gas station somewhere for two dollars, 862 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,320 Speaker 2: but he reads it or she reads it and feels 863 00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,120 Speaker 2: a little less lost after losing someone, then. 864 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:32,879 Speaker 1: I've done my job. 865 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,279 Speaker 2: And that became my kind of like guiding principle and 866 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 2: guiding light, which, as you know, writing a book's not easy. 867 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 1: And that was the sort of Okay, this is what 868 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: I'm doing it for. I'm doing it for that kid, 869 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 1: and that made it all the better. 870 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 4: How did you meet your wife? 871 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: How did I meet my wife? Good question? Twenty sixteen. 872 00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:55,240 Speaker 1: This true story. 873 00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,400 Speaker 2: I was covering the Hill and this is in February, 874 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 2: and it was one of those terrible weeks on Capitol 875 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:06,040 Speaker 2: Hill with very late nights, and I get a call 876 00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,439 Speaker 2: on Thursday, because you know that's when they they would 877 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 2: go home, as usually on Thursday they go out flights 878 00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,200 Speaker 2: our esteem. Members of Congress usually worked Tuesday, Wednesday, and 879 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,560 Speaker 2: half of Thursday that week they were in Monday it open. 880 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 1: Get a call for my. 881 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 2: Boss and he says, you know, an unnamed NBC correspondent 882 00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 2: has to get their hair done this weekend so they 883 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,839 Speaker 2: can't cover Donald Trump in Ventonville, Arkansas. 884 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,760 Speaker 1: So can you do it? So let me get this straight. 885 00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,040 Speaker 2: I've just worked doubles the last two weeks. If you're 886 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 2: sending me to Bentonville, Arkansas on a Saturday, uh, And 887 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 2: they go yeah, yeah, what a great what a great industry. 888 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 2: I go all right, well, I said, listen, because it's 889 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:47,720 Speaker 2: it's two flights. 890 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: Can can I go tomorrow as a travel day? And 891 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,720 Speaker 1: I want to go see Alice Walton's art museum. 892 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,760 Speaker 2: Alice Walton Walton there has a tens of millions of dollars, 893 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 2: beautiful private art museum. If you're for northwest Arkansas, I 894 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 2: highly recommend it. It is absolutely incredible. I won't say 895 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 2: there are any perfect billionaires out there, but the ones 896 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:12,719 Speaker 2: who do give to philanthropy and do our God love them. 897 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:15,360 Speaker 2: So I decide, I'm in a good to Bentonville. Go 898 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 2: see Alice Walton's our museum. So I go there to Bentonville, 899 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 2: and it's a nice, nice place. It's very interesting because 900 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,880 Speaker 2: here you are in northwest Arkansas. There's all these little 901 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,759 Speaker 2: yuppies from Harvard and Yale and Princeton who want to 902 00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 2: take over Walmart one day. 903 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,239 Speaker 1: You will have to move there, right, because like that's 904 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: what they make you do. 905 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,040 Speaker 2: If you want to be going up in Walmart, you 906 00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,399 Speaker 2: have to go live in Mettonville. So I go out 907 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,319 Speaker 2: there and it's an interesting place. But there's also like 908 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 2: a very vibrant, shall we say, hunting and fishing culture 909 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:52,239 Speaker 2: as well. Yeah, and so it's this interesting mix of 910 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,400 Speaker 2: So I go out and as you know, me, I 911 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,280 Speaker 2: see I like dive bars and things of that nature. 912 00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 2: And I was, you know, they're in a nice little 913 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 2: expense accounts. I was like all right, I'm gonna. 914 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,560 Speaker 1: See else Walden's art Museum. 915 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,400 Speaker 2: I'm gonna eat a really nice meal in Bentonville, and 916 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:07,600 Speaker 2: I'm gonna go find a. 917 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,359 Speaker 1: Dive bar and I have to be on at six 918 00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: in the morning tomorrow. But you know what I will, 919 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,040 Speaker 1: I'll look good and I'll go to this kind of 920 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 1: divy place that has beer and pizza. 921 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,920 Speaker 2: And I start chatting up. These two older people on 922 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 2: the stools next to me are very nice who are 923 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 2: out on a little date. And this very beautiful woman 924 00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:28,359 Speaker 2: comes up. It's just next to me on the other side. 925 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 2: She goes, oh, she goes, it's so cool for you 926 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 2: to be out here with your parents. I was like, well, 927 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,400 Speaker 2: these aren't my parents, but it's very nice to meet you. 928 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:40,080 Speaker 2: And we started talking and she says, you know, what 929 00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,439 Speaker 2: do you do? I said, oh, I'm here covering Donald Trump. 930 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 2: She says, you work for Donald Trump. I said, I 931 00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:46,280 Speaker 2: do not work for Donald Trump. I said, I'm covering 932 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 2: Donald Trump. He has a rally tomorrow, and she goes, really, 933 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:50,640 Speaker 2: I said, yes, I'm on television. 934 00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 1: She goes, you're on television. She goes, no, you're not. 935 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:53,360 Speaker 1: Why not? 936 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,240 Speaker 2: She goes, you're eating pizza? And you have this beer 937 00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 2: in front of you. You have to be on at 938 00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 2: six am. I said, yeah, it's all good, don't worry, 939 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:02,719 Speaker 2: unter professional. So she starts saying these things, say, oh, 940 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 2: I don't believe you. I said, listen. 941 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:05,439 Speaker 1: I said, I. 942 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:09,080 Speaker 2: Guarantee you if you turn on MSNBC at six am, 943 00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,479 Speaker 2: you turn NBC on at seven am, you will see 944 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,080 Speaker 2: me on the camera. And I knew I could guarantee 945 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:15,759 Speaker 2: you because they were so obsessed with Trump coverage at 946 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,960 Speaker 2: that point, right yeah. So she goes okay, and so 947 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,560 Speaker 2: as I get up to leave, I start talking to 948 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 2: these other people, and you know, she had gone off 949 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 2: back with her friend. And I walked over to the 950 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 2: table and they had all this pizza on there, and 951 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:30,279 Speaker 2: I was kind of hungry. 952 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:31,640 Speaker 1: And I said, hey, it was very nice to meet she. 953 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: I said you're gonna eat that? And then they were 954 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:33,879 Speaker 1: like what, And I. 955 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:36,759 Speaker 2: Just took two slices. I said, take it easy, bah bah. 956 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:41,399 Speaker 2: So she's yeah, next day, wake up. 957 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:43,040 Speaker 1: I do the Paul Newman. 958 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,440 Speaker 2: So I put the ice in the in the sink, 959 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:48,000 Speaker 2: dip the head in there to reduce any puffiness. 960 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:48,480 Speaker 1: Right. 961 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,440 Speaker 2: I get a nice egg McMuffin and a nice black 962 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:55,840 Speaker 2: coffee and then the secret se which is mac NW 963 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,080 Speaker 2: thirty five Bronzer. 964 00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:02,840 Speaker 1: Throw that on I like a million bucks. I'm fired up, baby. 965 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 1: It was a beautiful Arkansas morning where we'll do it 966 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,279 Speaker 1: live and you know, nail it. Then I have to 967 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:09,440 Speaker 1: go to the airport hangar. 968 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,799 Speaker 2: So we do like ten hours of Trump coverage and 969 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:13,759 Speaker 2: that was it. 970 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:14,919 Speaker 1: And she sends me a note. 971 00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,560 Speaker 2: She goes, holy shit, I can't believe that you actually 972 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:22,120 Speaker 2: weren't lying, Like how did you listen like that? I said, 973 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:27,240 Speaker 2: mac NW thirty five bronzer. It fixes everything. My makeup artist, 974 00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 2: you know, told me that I'm so manly. I had 975 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:32,439 Speaker 2: a makeup artist, right. Yeah, So that's how we met, 976 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 2: you know, she just followed me on Instagram, actor I 977 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:36,879 Speaker 2: became friendly. We didn't really actually see each other until 978 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,799 Speaker 2: years later, and I was living on California to write 979 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:42,520 Speaker 2: the book and she had moved back there. She's from California, 980 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,239 Speaker 2: and then we started to kind of see each other. 981 00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:46,080 Speaker 2: So there is a many years where it was just 982 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,359 Speaker 2: sort of liking photos on Instagram and hey, how are 983 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,799 Speaker 2: you and dating other people, and then yeah, it sort 984 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:55,880 Speaker 2: of all came to be. But yeah, I actually saw 985 00:43:56,840 --> 00:43:59,759 Speaker 2: recently my boss who sent me to Bentonville, Arkansas, and 986 00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:03,280 Speaker 2: I thank you, thank you because I was so angry 987 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:03,839 Speaker 2: about that. 988 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:05,279 Speaker 1: I was so angry about that. 989 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,879 Speaker 3: Did you thank the woman who had to do their 990 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 3: hair that weekend? 991 00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 4: Oh? 992 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,880 Speaker 1: I will in due time. I will do time my 993 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:13,879 Speaker 1: wrap be a woman though, you know, we don't want 994 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:14,200 Speaker 1: to just ques. 995 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,840 Speaker 3: I should not have assumed, Okay, we're gonna do a 996 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:18,920 Speaker 3: lightning round to end. 997 00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's do it. 998 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,880 Speaker 4: Best movie about journalism, oh, best. 999 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:34,960 Speaker 2: Movie about journalism. Okay, so you you would obviously want 1000 00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:37,880 Speaker 2: to do you know, the the old with all the 1001 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,440 Speaker 2: King's men, with Woodward and the president. 1002 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:44,840 Speaker 4: You don't have to do that one. 1003 00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 1: A president, I would, did you know what? I really liked? 1004 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:56,640 Speaker 2: What was the one with Russell Crowe, the alcoholic Irish 1005 00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,000 Speaker 2: Catholic guy, and then Ben Affleckx the congressman. 1006 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:02,839 Speaker 1: State of Play? I like State of Play? Yeah, State 1007 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:04,799 Speaker 1: of Play was very good. I like State of Play. 1008 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,720 Speaker 3: I love that movie. I also like Shattered Glass. Shattered 1009 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 3: Glass is a good. 1010 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:09,360 Speaker 1: That's a good one. 1011 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 3: Best movie about politics. Sometimes they can overlap, but. 1012 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 1: Best okay, so they have the overlap. 1013 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,600 Speaker 2: I would say the best you know what I'll give 1014 00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:20,319 Speaker 2: Carville credit. 1015 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:22,719 Speaker 1: I'll say The War Room is very good. Okay, I 1016 00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:23,959 Speaker 1: think that's documentary. 1017 00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,440 Speaker 2: It gets really into what those campaigns are like, and 1018 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:29,280 Speaker 2: so I say that, yeah, for sure. 1019 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,120 Speaker 1: I think I think one of the problems I have 1020 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:31,720 Speaker 1: with a lot. 1021 00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:36,160 Speaker 2: Of political movies is that they miss so much. Like 1022 00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:39,600 Speaker 2: it's just like the Hollywood adaptations are really lacking. 1023 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:41,480 Speaker 4: Did you see IDEs of March? 1024 00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I did. I watched it on a plane. 1025 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,480 Speaker 3: It was okay, it was, it was okay, it was 1026 00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,360 Speaker 3: it missed a lot, right, Yeah, I think they all do. 1027 00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 2: I think it's just yeah, I mean, part of that 1028 00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:54,920 Speaker 2: is egotistical because like, well, when you were and you're in. 1029 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,160 Speaker 1: It, But yeah, I don't know. There's just not a 1030 00:45:57,160 --> 00:45:59,359 Speaker 1: lot that have the candidate. Though. 1031 00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,200 Speaker 2: I really liked a lot going Old School because I 1032 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,719 Speaker 2: thought that had a lot of validity to it. But 1033 00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,880 Speaker 2: you know what it's interesting is like the best, in 1034 00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:11,920 Speaker 2: my picking political movies are the ones like the Candidate 1035 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,279 Speaker 2: that like they leave a lot un said. I think 1036 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,319 Speaker 2: the ones, the more recent ones to me, are just 1037 00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,920 Speaker 2: so overly literal that it's almost like they're trying too hard. 1038 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, the audience is smart enough to gage certain things. 1039 00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,319 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, favorite band. 1040 00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,160 Speaker 1: Uh, that's tough. I have to give you a few, 1041 00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:32,280 Speaker 1: all right. 1042 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,920 Speaker 2: So I am so obviously Springsteen in the Eastreet band 1043 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:40,160 Speaker 2: I have, I adore, I've always loved Guns and Roses. 1044 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 2: I love Jason Isbell and the four hundred Unit. But 1045 00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:49,600 Speaker 2: I gotta tell you this, this kid, Zach Bryan, who 1046 00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:51,799 Speaker 2: I've been following that. 1047 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:54,160 Speaker 1: For the last few years. I'm so thrilled for his success. 1048 00:46:55,200 --> 00:47:01,120 Speaker 2: His creative output in the last few years is it's 1049 00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,160 Speaker 2: up there with the best. 1050 00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:03,360 Speaker 1: Of the best. 1051 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:05,839 Speaker 2: I mean, I think we will look back on his 1052 00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:07,160 Speaker 2: last three albums and be. 1053 00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,759 Speaker 1: Like, oh my gosh, this guy was iconic. Yeah, and 1054 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:14,040 Speaker 1: then I love I love Fleetwood Mac too. I love 1055 00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:14,760 Speaker 1: Fleetwoo Classic. 1056 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,360 Speaker 4: What's the best thing you ate on your trip? 1057 00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:19,560 Speaker 1: Oh and the world travels? 1058 00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:25,080 Speaker 2: Uh huh, Well, that's a good question, I'm I I 1059 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 2: have to go with the food in Hanoi. 1060 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,880 Speaker 1: In Hanoi, Vietnam. 1061 00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,640 Speaker 2: You sit on these milk crates and they cook meat 1062 00:47:34,840 --> 00:47:38,120 Speaker 2: on charcoal at your feet, so you're like you're eating 1063 00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:42,440 Speaker 2: from your feet. All different types of meats, different spices, 1064 00:47:42,680 --> 00:47:46,880 Speaker 2: use of fruits and vegetables and rices. And that's just 1065 00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:47,960 Speaker 2: the best food of all time. 1066 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,640 Speaker 1: I can't cool. Yeah, so yeah, hano Hanoi food. 1067 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:54,880 Speaker 2: And then you know what's actually really under the radar, 1068 00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,879 Speaker 2: incredibly good food. And if you have an opportunity, if 1069 00:47:57,880 --> 00:47:59,520 Speaker 2: you's a young kid listening to this and you're a 1070 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:01,400 Speaker 2: little bit Austin, you want to go do something cool 1071 00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,239 Speaker 2: to Bla. See Georgia, the country of Georgia, not the state. 1072 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:09,239 Speaker 2: Unbelievable food there. They do these meat things and dumplings 1073 00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,799 Speaker 2: that are part of soups and spices. It's the birthplace 1074 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,920 Speaker 2: of wine. So you get these jugs of wine and 1075 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:15,680 Speaker 2: one of those things for like eight bucks. 1076 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,440 Speaker 1: And it's a very interesting city because. 1077 00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:21,520 Speaker 2: All these Russians are now there, some of nefarious, some 1078 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:26,640 Speaker 2: of them are nice. And then Iran, Iran has visa 1079 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,239 Speaker 2: free travel there, so you hang out in a bar 1080 00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:32,520 Speaker 2: and to Blasi and like these iraniums come across the 1081 00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:35,439 Speaker 2: border and a lot of women too, jobs come off. 1082 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:39,440 Speaker 1: Just get tanked. It's just tanked, you know, it's just 1083 00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:40,040 Speaker 1: like just. 1084 00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,560 Speaker 2: Jugs of wine Coca co. Right, it's unbelievably cool. So 1085 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,600 Speaker 2: it's a very cool vibe to please see Georgia. Great 1086 00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,319 Speaker 2: food and this is this really inter interesting melting pot 1087 00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:51,800 Speaker 2: of people. 1088 00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,360 Speaker 1: And it's cheap. So if you're like a struggling artist 1089 00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,520 Speaker 1: or something, you'll get a little warehouse vibe out there, 1090 00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:58,319 Speaker 1: be very cool. 1091 00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,719 Speaker 4: Cool. What's the worst thing you ate on your trip? 1092 00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:05,440 Speaker 2: Well, I did, I mean, I ate all the insects. 1093 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:07,520 Speaker 2: I did the scorpion, I did all that, but they 1094 00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:16,960 Speaker 2: just kind of tasted normal. I got a very very 1095 00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:21,120 Speaker 2: bad local fish in Sri Lanka that messed me. Oh no, 1096 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,839 Speaker 2: I recall the name of it, but it was, yeah, 1097 00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:24,560 Speaker 2: it was not good. 1098 00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:26,120 Speaker 4: It was Did it last a while? 1099 00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:27,440 Speaker 1: Yeah? 1100 00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:27,799 Speaker 5: Yeah? 1101 00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh god, that was not good. And then I'd 1102 00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,359 Speaker 1: say in terms of like people like the. 1103 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:36,720 Speaker 2: Overall sit just like culture's food that just misses for me. Yeah, 1104 00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:43,200 Speaker 2: it really was like that, sort of like Swiss Slovenian that. 1105 00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:46,520 Speaker 1: That Austrian schnitzel not for you. You can only do 1106 00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:47,880 Speaker 1: so many schnitzels, you know. 1107 00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:50,400 Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, okay. 1108 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:56,840 Speaker 3: And the last question, which is very important to me culturally, personally, spiritually, 1109 00:49:57,600 --> 00:49:59,080 Speaker 3: when is iced coffee season? 1110 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:05,600 Speaker 2: Uh okay, So you just touched on something which is 1111 00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:06,760 Speaker 2: I'm very odd. 1112 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:08,759 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna have to admit something. Now. I've only 1113 00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:09,960 Speaker 1: admitted this once before. 1114 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:14,080 Speaker 2: So I ic coffee year round, and what I do is, 1115 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,320 Speaker 2: and my wife thinks this is so strange. 1116 00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,319 Speaker 1: I will make a big pot of coffee. Yeah, I 1117 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,800 Speaker 1: pour a warm cup of coffee first. 1118 00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:26,600 Speaker 2: Okay, I drink the warm cup of coffee, and then 1119 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,040 Speaker 2: I have a glass bottle that I ice everything from 1120 00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,399 Speaker 2: the previous day. So the rest of that big that 1121 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:36,040 Speaker 2: the rest of that pot then goes from the glass 1122 00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,240 Speaker 2: bottle that I ice, and I drink the iced coffee 1123 00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:39,920 Speaker 2: throughout the day, drink. 1124 00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:40,319 Speaker 1: A lot of it. 1125 00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:44,279 Speaker 2: Oftentimes my wife will get angry because I start icing 1126 00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,960 Speaker 2: the coffee right away before she's had enough of the 1127 00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:51,479 Speaker 2: warm coffee or that like, oh my god, I made 1128 00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:55,400 Speaker 2: the mistake of getting you know, this organic fancy stuff 1129 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,759 Speaker 2: that this guy from the farmer's market, which you're only 1130 00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,000 Speaker 2: supposed to have one cup up because it's so expensive. 1131 00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:02,320 Speaker 1: Nice. I may have iceed all of it right away, 1132 00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:03,920 Speaker 1: so I have to. 1133 00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:08,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, Safeway select brand is what I'm allowed to ice. 1134 00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,919 Speaker 1: So ice coffee. I go twenty three sixty five twenty 1135 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:13,319 Speaker 1: four seven for ice coffee. For me. 1136 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:14,680 Speaker 4: That's the correct answer. 1137 00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:16,080 Speaker 1: I love it. 1138 00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:16,600 Speaker 4: You're wondering. 1139 00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:17,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's the others. 1140 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:22,000 Speaker 2: There's people that's say, it's an aromatic, so coffee should 1141 00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:23,920 Speaker 2: be warm to you know, breathe it in. 1142 00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,319 Speaker 4: That's the wrong answer. Those people are wrong. 1143 00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:29,480 Speaker 1: I agree they are wrong. Yeah, twenty four seven, three 1144 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:30,080 Speaker 1: sixty five. 1145 00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,600 Speaker 3: I knew we had a lot in common, but that's 1146 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,760 Speaker 3: the most important thing that will bond us for life. 1147 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,480 Speaker 4: Well, Lukesler, thanks so much for joining me. Good and 1148 00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,399 Speaker 4: Goodie of course, thank you so much. This was great. 1149 00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:43,600 Speaker 1: Hey, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. 1150 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,239 Speaker 3: Next week on Off the Cup, I talked to Mark 1151 00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,480 Speaker 3: duplas star of the Morning show. 1152 00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:53,680 Speaker 7: I had sort of promised myself and a bunch of 1153 00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,720 Speaker 7: people like, you know what, my days of doing long 1154 00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:00,640 Speaker 7: term acting TV gigs where I'm not the boss, I 1155 00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:03,080 Speaker 7: think those are numbered, you know. But what I hadn't 1156 00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:05,880 Speaker 7: accounted for is the size of my own ego. 1157 00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:08,839 Speaker 3: Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as 1158 00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:11,600 Speaker 3: part of the Reasoned Choice Network. I'm your host Si 1159 00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:15,080 Speaker 3: Cupp editing and sound designed by Derek Clements. Our executive 1160 00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:18,240 Speaker 3: producers are me, Sie Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. 1161 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:20,600 Speaker 4: If you like Off the Cup, please rate 1162 00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,800 Speaker 3: And review wherever you get your podcasts, follow or subscribe 1163 00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:30,080 Speaker 3: for new episodes every Wednesday.