Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power collide
Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with
Speaker 1: Emily Jay. I'm Emily check in San Francisco, and this
Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour, a
Speaker 1: water gen moment for Amazon and all of its workers.
Speaker 1: A vote to unionize at the second largest private employer
Speaker 1: in the country will drive a push for organized labor
Speaker 1: across the United States. We will discuss plus a U
Speaker 1: turn in China's tech delisting plan. Chinese authorities preparing to
Speaker 1: give US regulators full access to auditing reports of the
Speaker 1: majority of the two hundred plus companies Chinese companies listed
Speaker 1: in New York. We will break it down and Bractel
Speaker 1: is the new n f T gaming company in town,
Speaker 1: created by Twitch co founder Justin Kahn. Why does he
Speaker 1: think n f T s or the future of gaming?
Speaker 1: Con joins us in an exclusive interview this hour, workers
Speaker 1: at an Amazon warehouse in New York have voted to
Speaker 1: join a union. It is a historic victory for organized labor.
Speaker 1: Amazon has managed to keep unions out of its US
Speaker 1: operations for more than a quarter century. The vote wasn't
Speaker 1: even close. Those in favor of the union, winning by
Speaker 1: ten percentage points. We are joined now by Lynn Vincent,
Speaker 1: assistant professor at the MJ. Whitman's School of Management at
Speaker 1: Syracuse University, along with our Bloomberg Senior executive editor Brad Stone,
Speaker 1: who has been covering Amazon himself for decades. Brad, Amazon
Speaker 1: is the second largest private employer in the country, so
Speaker 1: this could potentially be huge. Just how remarkable do you
Speaker 1: think this is? Well, it's certainly historic. As as you said,
Speaker 1: Amazon has been fighting union attempts in the US, probably
Speaker 1: since the late nineties when it first started in a
Speaker 1: customer service call center outside Seattle. And if you remember,
Speaker 1: Amazon closed that facility and just moved the work elsewhere.
Speaker 1: So it's fault these efforts bitterly. In Europe, there have
Speaker 1: been unions there having work stoppages. Amazon typically kind of
Speaker 1: routes around it, and so I think, look, it's historic,
Speaker 1: it's unusual for Amazon, but it's just the beginning. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is one facility. Amazon, as we reported today, is
Speaker 1: going to contest it, probably in court. But then the
Speaker 1: real work begins bargaining. And will Amazon even sit down
Speaker 1: with this new and very untested union, And you know,
Speaker 1: and then will it renegotiate things that it does give employees,
Speaker 1: like a fifteen hour wage. I think this this group
Speaker 1: led by Chris Small, as a former Amazon employee, is
Speaker 1: now going to be very, very much tested. Chris Smalls
Speaker 1: has been a huge character in this whole story. I
Speaker 1: want to read Amazon statement here, Amazon saying we're disappointed
Speaker 1: with the outcome of the election in Staten Island because
Speaker 1: we believe having a direct relationship with the company is
Speaker 1: best for employees. Were evaluating our options, including filing objections
Speaker 1: based on the inappropriate and undue influence by the n
Speaker 1: l r B that we and others witnessed in this election.
Speaker 1: When it sounds like Amazon is intending to make the
Speaker 1: argument that basically President Biden's pick to run the labor
Speaker 1: board swung list in an activist direction, does that argument
Speaker 1: hold water? I don't know about the the legal implications there,
Speaker 1: but historically, when we look at organizations and unionization attempts,
Speaker 1: the power imbalances in favor of organizations. So I would
Speaker 1: be surprised if that held a lot of water in court.
Speaker 1: But I wasn't on the ground. I didn't see what
Speaker 1: happens specifically in the distribution center. So what is your
Speaker 1: outlook on just how this could ripple across the United States,
Speaker 1: across other Amazon warehouses, but at other companies where employee
Speaker 1: employees could look at this and say maybe we should
Speaker 1: do this too. It could have enormous effects because Walmart
Speaker 1: and Amazon were the untouchable giants, and now they're not
Speaker 1: so untouchable. It's still an uphill climb for other Amazon
Speaker 1: distribution centers and other organizations. But the momentum is there,
Speaker 1: and we've seen the momentum continue through the the nation.
Speaker 1: I mean, we have movement at Starbucks, at ari I,
Speaker 1: at Conde Nast alphabet workers. So it's there and I
Speaker 1: don't see that this movement is going to go away
Speaker 1: soon now, Brad. At the same time, you're looking at
Speaker 1: a similar vote in Alabama. This is a do over
Speaker 1: vote because controversy around the first vote that one going
Speaker 1: at this point in the other direction. It's too close
Speaker 1: to call. It will likely be challenged. But so far
Speaker 1: in Alabama, it's looking like the Union is not coming
Speaker 1: out on top. Why why are we seeing different outcomes here? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think look looking at Staten Island in
Speaker 1: New York City is probably pretty important. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is I think the second most unionized state after Hawaii,
Speaker 1: and in the country. New York cities have even higher
Speaker 1: Staaten Island probably even higher just in terms of union membership.
Speaker 1: You had a group here with Chris Smalls and as
Speaker 1: colleagues that employed the kind of community activists playbook in
Speaker 1: terms of using social media and getting arrested, a very
Speaker 1: very innovative UM playbook, and also speaking as former Amazon employees,
Speaker 1: So I think that had something to do with it. UM.
Speaker 1: I think I think Lin's right. There's some important, kind
Speaker 1: of symbolic victories here for a labor movement, an organized
Speaker 1: labor movement that's probably been losing ground over the past
Speaker 1: few decades just in terms of the sheer number of
Speaker 1: union members. But I still think it's it's too soon
Speaker 1: to say that the tide is really turning. I think Amazon,
Speaker 1: it has this immune system response to two unions in
Speaker 1: its supply chain, and it fights them to the nail.
Speaker 1: And I think probably workers at other fulfillment centers are
Speaker 1: going to be watching and waiting to see if Chris
Speaker 1: Smalls and his colleagues can convert today's important and very
Speaker 1: symbolic victory in the meaningful changes for Amazon workers. We're
Speaker 1: actually looking at video of Chris Small's popping a bottle
Speaker 1: of champagne on the back of this vote. Lynn, You know,
Speaker 1: do we need a character like that? If other pushes
Speaker 1: for organized labor in other parts of the country, at
Speaker 1: other Amazon warehouses, at other companies, is really going to succeed.
Speaker 1: I think the case of Chris Smalls is particularly interesting
Speaker 1: because he led that independent union. When we look at
Speaker 1: the tactics he used in terms of change management, coalition building,
Speaker 1: he's really smart. Amazon has a particular playbook that they
Speaker 1: use when it comes to fighting unions, and Christmas tactics
Speaker 1: kind of subverted them. It was really clever. It's the
Speaker 1: next step will be negotiating, which is going to take
Speaker 1: a lot of effort, a lot of resource allocation, um,
Speaker 1: so the transition to that process will be harder. But
Speaker 1: he seems to be focusing on participation and bringing the
Speaker 1: workers involvement in so if he continues to do that,
Speaker 1: he could be very successful. Brad, what kind of roadblocks
Speaker 1: do you think Amazon will throw up next here and elsewhere? Boy,
Speaker 1: we we we probably can't even conceive of what they'll
Speaker 1: resort to. If you look back across the arc of
Speaker 1: Amazon history. They've shut down facilities, They've walked away from
Speaker 1: the scissist facilities that have even attempted to organize. I
Speaker 1: don't think in under Andy Jasse, Amazon can or will
Speaker 1: do that, although you know, Frankly, a couple of years ago,
Speaker 1: they shut down, as you remember Emily h the HQ
Speaker 1: two project in Long Island City because basically it had
Speaker 1: become about unions, and mayor at the time Bill Deblasio said, uh,
Speaker 1: New York City is a union town. Amazon, You're gonna
Speaker 1: have to accept it. And they and the next day
Speaker 1: they close shop. So but you know, Jesse is a
Speaker 1: little bit of a different CEO than Bezos. I don't
Speaker 1: think they'll do that, but I think they'll fight tooth
Speaker 1: and nail. I think these legal objections are just the beginning.
Speaker 1: I think, uh, bargaining tooth and nail for for everything
Speaker 1: um with Chris Malt and his colleagues. We can certainly
Speaker 1: anticipate that and maybe don't reach a contract, and maybe
Speaker 1: there's a strike and maybe Amazon resorts to replacement labor
Speaker 1: and we have a big battle with the world watching.
Speaker 1: I really don't think they're going to allow Smalls and
Speaker 1: his union to kind of set an example because they
Speaker 1: do view it as a little bit of an existential
Speaker 1: challenge for the company and the relationship they have with
Speaker 1: their million plus workers. Lann, I see you nodding your
Speaker 1: head in agreement with what Brad is saying here. What
Speaker 1: do you think comes next from Amazon? I I think
Speaker 1: they are going to fight to snything I'll just was said. Um,
Speaker 1: so they the location offers some challenges and benefits. Mean
Speaker 1: they are it's in a pro labor town in a
Speaker 1: pro labor state. Uh that, and they have a lot
Speaker 1: invested in the area. They have multiple distribution centers, would
Speaker 1: be hard to shut those down easily. That being said,
Speaker 1: they are in a large urban area with a greater
Speaker 1: labor supply possibility. So it's they have some things going
Speaker 1: for them in against them. Will be interesting to see
Speaker 1: what they choose to do. While the scale of this
Speaker 1: is certainly potentially massive, Amazon employing one and a half
Speaker 1: million workers in the United States alone. Lynn Vincent, assistant
Speaker 1: Professor at the M. J. Whitman School of Management at
Speaker 1: Syracuse University, along with our own senior executive editor Rad Stone,
Speaker 1: thank you. Both will continue to follow Sticking with Amazon,
Speaker 1: The tech giant gave CEO Andy Jase a pay package
Speaker 1: worth two hundred twelve million dollars last year. Almost all
Speaker 1: of that came in a stock award sixty one thousand shares.
Speaker 1: Those vests between next year and one. Jesse took over
Speaker 1: from Amazon founder Jeff Bezos back in July. Coming up,
Speaker 1: Apple's four into fintech, how the iPhone maker plans to
Speaker 1: develop its own pay it's processing technology, and what it
Speaker 1: all means for the rest of the fintech world. Next,
Speaker 1: Mrs Bloomberg, you soon may be able to pay for
Speaker 1: your iPhone or other Apple hardware in the same way
Speaker 1: that you pay for I Cloud, Apple TV Plus, or
Speaker 1: Apple Music. Apples working on a secret project to create
Speaker 1: an iPhone subscription service that would allow users to pay
Speaker 1: for their phone monthly via their app Store account. This
Speaker 1: would differ from normal Apple and carrier insolvent plans, as
Speaker 1: the feet would be a proprietary price based on which
Speaker 1: I phone model the user chose, versus just the cost
Speaker 1: of the device, divide it up by twelve or twenty
Speaker 1: four months. As part of the initiative, Apple would let
Speaker 1: iPhone users replace their model each year. As new versions
Speaker 1: are released over time. Of course, the recurring revenue would
Speaker 1: generate even more money for Apple, but it would also
Speaker 1: allow consumers to get new iPhones were frequently and not
Speaker 1: have to pay a thousand dollars outright for a new
Speaker 1: high end model. Apple has also internally discussed tying the
Speaker 1: program to Apple one its services bundles that include TV Plus,
Speaker 1: Apple Music, Cloud Storage, News, Fitness Plus, and more, in
Speaker 1: addition to Apple Care technical support plans. Similarly, Apples also
Speaker 1: working on a widespread by now pay lead service for
Speaker 1: Apple Pay it All goes to plan, Apple could launch
Speaker 1: the hardware subscription service later or sometime. I'm Mark German.
Speaker 1: This is power On, Mark German air for Bloomberg and
Speaker 1: don't forget to sign up for his weekly newsletter power
Speaker 1: On at Bloomberg dot com. Seeking with Apple, Bloomberg and
Speaker 1: Mark reporting earlier this week that the Iphonemaker is developing
Speaker 1: its own payments processing technology and infrastructure for future financial products.
Speaker 1: To talk about that and other fintech news, I want
Speaker 1: to bring in Jackie Racist, CEO and founder of post
Speaker 1: House Capital. Jackie, great to have you back with us.
Speaker 1: I'm curious what you're I'm curious. What your read is
Speaker 1: on Apple digging even deeper into the financial services world
Speaker 1: and what this means for other fintech players, Well, I'm
Speaker 1: not at all surprised. I mean, for a few reasons. First,
Speaker 1: they process hundreds of billions of dollars worts of payments
Speaker 1: throughout the entire Apple ecosystem, and so the skill with
Speaker 1: which they operate is extraordinary for any type of payment
Speaker 1: system to run throughout their network. The second thing is
Speaker 1: they've been in payments for eight years and they've already
Speaker 1: shown interest in launching both himen and credit products. And
Speaker 1: what they're doing in particular with pay and for for example,
Speaker 1: is enabling consumers to just buy in another form. So
Speaker 1: it's a tender type, meaning it's a type of money
Speaker 1: that you can use. And what they do is make
Speaker 1: it easier to pay with your device and pay over
Speaker 1: a period of time. That makes it easier for consumers
Speaker 1: to control their monthly spend. And so it obviously is
Speaker 1: helpful because from Apple's point of view, it creates engagement.
Speaker 1: It creates this relationship even after a transaction, because the
Speaker 1: servicing relationship for a pay and four enables them to
Speaker 1: continue to build a relationship with a consumer on their phone.
Speaker 1: So there's tons of utility there, both for the consumer
Speaker 1: who wants to control monthly expenses, as well as for
Speaker 1: Apple who wants to continue to dig a little bit
Speaker 1: deeper into the consumer's wallet. Who does this hurt the most?
Speaker 1: What does it mean for a PayPal for example. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's gonna hurt anybody. I think it is
Speaker 1: a new form factor and way to pay, and you'll
Speaker 1: see it proliferate across while it's everywhere, and so you'll
Speaker 1: see the credit card providers do it, You'll see specialists
Speaker 1: do it, like a firm after pay Klarna, and I
Speaker 1: think you'll see it as just another payment vehicle for
Speaker 1: consumers to use. And so maybe it changes the whether
Speaker 1: someone uses debit, whether they use credit, or they use
Speaker 1: a digital form factor. But it's just another way to
Speaker 1: expand the relationship and continue to give options amongst all
Speaker 1: of their products. We've seen a number of fintech stocks
Speaker 1: take up beating this quarter. I mean we're looking at
Speaker 1: a lot of red on the screen. There a firm.
Speaker 1: I know you're on the board of a firm PayPal,
Speaker 1: so Fi Block he used to work at Square for
Speaker 1: many years. Why do you think fintech in particular is
Speaker 1: taking this I know there's a broader down market. Fintech
Speaker 1: seems to be taking it pretty hard, you know it.
Speaker 1: Fintech had an unbelievable series of years between one where
Speaker 1: funding and valuations reached fairly heady heights, and so you
Speaker 1: see a reset back to valuations that are more standardized
Speaker 1: levels of valuations. Particularly given the growth of these companies,
Speaker 1: I think you'll always see them operate with disruptive multiples,
Speaker 1: meaning they'll operate with multiples that are higher than the
Speaker 1: non technically advanced companies in the payments and financial sector.
Speaker 1: But they came back to a more sustainable multiple level
Speaker 1: in this overall market reset. Having said that, the private
Speaker 1: market also reset, and uh in one alone, you saw
Speaker 1: sixty increase in crypto investments, you saw a similar increase
Speaker 1: in fintech investing, and all of that had reached a
Speaker 1: level of valuations and um levels of interest that really
Speaker 1: had peaked, and it just kind of came back to earth.
Speaker 1: I still see huge opportunities in this sector. It's one
Speaker 1: of the biggest sectors in the United States and around
Speaker 1: the world, and it's a sector where the traditional companies
Speaker 1: that operate in this market are for the majority of
Speaker 1: the public companies over fifty years and older as companies,
Speaker 1: and so there's incredible opportunity to be disruptive in this space.
Speaker 1: So I still see lots of opportunity and lots of investment. UM.
Speaker 1: Even today, you're an investor in the crypto market, and
Speaker 1: I'm so curious how you're thinking about DEFY an adoption trends.
Speaker 1: The Inner Information just came out with a pretty explosive
Speaker 1: headline talking about entries and Horowitz versus Jack Dorsey and
Speaker 1: the crypto quote unquote holy war that is brewing. Okay,
Speaker 1: I think that's a little dramatic. Having said that, UM,
Speaker 1: it is entertaining. UM. I think Defy is fascinating because
Speaker 1: it changes the paradigm of who controls and who owns
Speaker 1: companies and who who operates them, and so I do
Speaker 1: think there's an opportunity to expand the aperture of how
Speaker 1: these companies are run and created. I also think we're
Speaker 1: only in the first inning of DEFY. We really are
Speaker 1: seeing tons of experimentation, whether it be an infrastructure or
Speaker 1: even in vertical products, but you haven't really seen use
Speaker 1: cases come to fruition and build significant scale companies where
Speaker 1: you're seeing the broader use cases used in consumers day
Speaker 1: and day outlives. But the experimentation that's out there is
Speaker 1: pretty exciting and I think it, along with the rest
Speaker 1: of the crypto market and the fintech market, continues to
Speaker 1: show the level of interest in investing in this area
Speaker 1: of of the United States economy. Jackie, before you go,
Speaker 1: I want to ask you quickly about your new book,
Speaker 1: Self Made Boss, which you co wrote and you talk
Speaker 1: to entrepreneurs, owners of small and medium businesses. Really you
Speaker 1: know some of your customers when you were working at
Speaker 1: Square Capital. What was the catalyst for this quickly um
Speaker 1: catalysts is small businesses need help to start, run and
Speaker 1: grow their business. They are half of the economy two
Speaker 1: thirds of job growth in the United States. Lauren Weinberg,
Speaker 1: my co author, and I really saw the need to
Speaker 1: create a pragmatic guide to help small businesses build their
Speaker 1: companies through feedback from other small businesses, and it's a
Speaker 1: helpful tool to help them again start run and grow
Speaker 1: their business. Jackie reesis post House Capital and new author
Speaker 1: Self Made Boss. You can check it out on Amazon.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Jackie. For joining us. Welcome back to Blow Technology.
Speaker 1: I'm emily changing in San Francisco. Potentially huge news from
Speaker 1: Twitter today or is it news at all? Twitter tweeting
Speaker 1: that the company is working on an edit button. Then again,
Speaker 1: it's April fools Day? Ed what do you think? Is
Speaker 1: it a joke? Reminding you m all day long it's
Speaker 1: April Fool's Day. This is a joke, right, this is
Speaker 1: what the people want, but clearly this is a joke.
Speaker 1: This is what I want. But I'm guessing this is
Speaker 1: a joke. Unfortunately Twitter has resisted for years and edit button, right,
Speaker 1: so why would they do it now? And on April
Speaker 1: Fool's Day? Give us the edit button? And even investors
Speaker 1: think it's a joke because chet check. All right, well,
Speaker 1: well we'll have to see tomorrow. And yes, you were
Speaker 1: the one preparing all of us not to fall for it. Um,
Speaker 1: all right, i'd boodlow. Thank you. I want to talk
Speaker 1: more about Chinese tech sos rallying now with Race Capital
Speaker 1: partner Edith Young. If first of all, what do you
Speaker 1: make of the Chinese government potentially taking a really unprecedented
Speaker 1: step by that's given how secretive and protective the government
Speaker 1: is about its own companies. Well, I hope this is
Speaker 1: not a April four jokes from from the Chinese authority UM.
Speaker 1: Who knows they also have a sense of humor as well.
Speaker 1: Point And I think, you know, obviously, you know, based
Speaker 1: on what you and I just discussed, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's amazing to see to Stoff really rally up this morning.
Speaker 1: And you know, for the last twelve months all the
Speaker 1: Chinese stock and the two plus companies been under a
Speaker 1: lot of pressure and haven't been It's just been a really,
Speaker 1: really tough time for them. So I think like this
Speaker 1: particular announcement UM, from from my point of view, is
Speaker 1: the three implication. One is it's amazing to see the
Speaker 1: Chinese authority is willing to work with UM, the US
Speaker 1: to potentially open this up. We will see how it
Speaker 1: goes during the summer. But this is really at the
Speaker 1: government level UM in terms of cooperations, sort of amazing
Speaker 1: to see. And in this particular implication, in some sense
Speaker 1: it's very historic because it's been a lot of pushback,
Speaker 1: you know, for many, many years. So number two is
Speaker 1: it's great news for the listed companies because compagned market
Speaker 1: cap is almost over two point one trillion that we're
Speaker 1: talking about is really nervous for many many other investors,
Speaker 1: for for all the CEOs in the public listed companies.
Speaker 1: So now it's you know, the Chinese authorities are willing
Speaker 1: to sort of really sort of lead the charge. So
Speaker 1: it's that's great news. And number three, from the point
Speaker 1: of view from a startups, there's so many different startups
Speaker 1: really been wanting to go I p O in the US,
Speaker 1: and now there's light at the end of the tunnel,
Speaker 1: so it's great news overall. And last but not least,
Speaker 1: I still have family and friends. Now is under complete lockdown,
Speaker 1: particularly in Shanghai now and it's just so bad. So economically,
Speaker 1: we really need some good news in China. Well. So
Speaker 1: I wonder if this is going to be part of
Speaker 1: a longer term strategy, given that the Chinese government has
Speaker 1: been cracking down on its own tech companies for months
Speaker 1: upon months now, are we going to see a broader
Speaker 1: easing up? Um? I really hope. So it's I don't
Speaker 1: I'm definitely not qualified to a comment on you know,
Speaker 1: what Chinese authority and government would do, but one thing
Speaker 1: for sure, I think that Chinese government really wants to
Speaker 1: know support the economy um, and think what happened without
Speaker 1: at the end grouped or of course it's not purely
Speaker 1: just for regulatory with with ATTACH or or or or
Speaker 1: the fintech so sectors. It's just overall. I think the
Speaker 1: whole economy because of COVID has been been, um really
Speaker 1: going through self tough times. And I think right now
Speaker 1: the government really wants to sort of help and push
Speaker 1: this along. And at least you know, for us from
Speaker 1: from an early stage investor, and that's from a startup
Speaker 1: point of view, this is really really good news and
Speaker 1: I think they really wanted helped it, not to suppress it.
Speaker 1: So what is your assessment now whether investors should be
Speaker 1: getting into or staying in Chinese tech stocks public companies,
Speaker 1: and whether Chinese companies in general are smart from a
Speaker 1: private market or venture capitalist investment perspective as well? Then well,
Speaker 1: I think like from my private market, um, there are
Speaker 1: many many areas. It's a little bit more. I don't
Speaker 1: know one I want you go from healthcare or signmi
Speaker 1: conductors um or any sort of electric cars. And you know, frankly,
Speaker 1: China has been the one of the fastest growing market
Speaker 1: for companies like Tesla, so China actually as a whole
Speaker 1: is still the one of the second largest in terms
Speaker 1: of um GDP in the world, So it's a huge market,
Speaker 1: and I think as much as so the ten Cent
Speaker 1: and end group of the world or Buy Do. Seems
Speaker 1: like the stock PLA hasn't been done so great, but
Speaker 1: but still is huge, huge in terms of user base.
Speaker 1: And I'm so really really bull about the Chinese market.
Speaker 1: We can predict what Chinese government wants to do, but
Speaker 1: at the same time, just in terms of the health
Speaker 1: and the future of the economy is still really really bright.
Speaker 1: So in general, I take a very positive attitude. Now
Speaker 1: I want to turn the crypto now because you've backed
Speaker 1: some of the biggest crypto names out there yet Salona
Speaker 1: f t X. Why do you think we're seeing such
Speaker 1: hesitance on the part of public market investors to double
Speaker 1: down on crypto amidst this broader market downturn. There was
Speaker 1: a thought that cryptocurrencies could potentially be decoupled from traditional equities,
Speaker 1: but we're not really seeing that. Well. I actually, I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess it really depends on the day. Um Emily,
Speaker 1: I think you and I catch up December last year,
Speaker 1: and I actually predicted for the last five years that
Speaker 1: three crypto winters and sort of got every January. There's
Speaker 1: some sort of downturn, particularly with bitcoin um, but having
Speaker 1: said that, in the last few days in the quarto
Speaker 1: market really rally up once again. So in my head
Speaker 1: there's a few things. One is, you know, last it's
Speaker 1: been red cut high in terms of early stage crypto
Speaker 1: venture and just look at like f t X along
Speaker 1: the revenue has just been insane, and I think that
Speaker 1: more and more where we're seeing. In some sense, I
Speaker 1: think the Biden administration with the executive order, you certainly
Speaker 1: the White House can't say, um, I want certain things
Speaker 1: to happen, but they really have give their blessing. In
Speaker 1: some sense, still need to wait for all the agency
Speaker 1: to give the officials to regularly regulate this. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, I do think that we're going in
Speaker 1: the right direction in sort of institution regardless in the
Speaker 1: Cowan of the world which invested in POL signed in
Speaker 1: in terms of custodies, they are more and more institution
Speaker 1: um offering actual products for so that the family offices
Speaker 1: so many many sort of consumer to get into the game,
Speaker 1: just starting with coin based being publish an f t
Speaker 1: x I don't know when, but also going through the
Speaker 1: right direction in terms of getting all the license regulatory compliance.
Speaker 1: I think more or we will come in Young Price
Speaker 1: Capital partner, thank you as always for joining us. Coming up,
Speaker 1: the co founder of Twitch also getting into crypto and
Speaker 1: n f T s, will speak with Justin Cohn, you know,
Speaker 1: broadcast exclusive about his first adventure capital round for a
Speaker 1: new gaming and f T company, Fractal. This is Bloomberk
Speaker 1: the future of n f T s in gaming. Fractal,
Speaker 1: the new n f T gaming company founded by Twitch
Speaker 1: co founder Justin Cohn, just raised an additional round of
Speaker 1: funding from crypto focused investors like Paradigm and multi Coin Capital.
Speaker 1: I want to bring in Justin Cohn now for more
Speaker 1: on his vision. Justin, We know you so well for
Speaker 1: experimenting with and popularizing early technologies from Justin TV too
Speaker 1: of course Twitch. What makes you think n f T
Speaker 1: s in gaming are the future? Uh? Well, it makes
Speaker 1: me it feels it feels like those early days of
Speaker 1: live streaming, you know, fifteen years ago when I started
Speaker 1: off on the Internet and we're building Justin TV, which
Speaker 1: is the company that turned into Twitch. There was a
Speaker 1: lot of experimentation on how are people going to interact
Speaker 1: on the Internet, and today in crypto and n f
Speaker 1: t S particularly, it feels like there's all this experimentation
Speaker 1: on how are people going to regard an exchange value
Speaker 1: on your neet And that's what's really exciting to me.
Speaker 1: What is a successful game that uses n f t
Speaker 1: S look like in your vision? Yeah, it looks like
Speaker 1: a game. You know, I think that n f t
Speaker 1: s are the new is this model gaming? And in
Speaker 1: ten years from now, you know, we won't think of
Speaker 1: blockchain games or games with n f t s is
Speaker 1: something completely separate. We're going to see it as like
Speaker 1: these are games that have assets, and those assets are
Speaker 1: worth something. People trade them, they own them, they take
Speaker 1: them with them, and uh, it's just gonna be something
Speaker 1: that's kind of standardized. So today, if you look at
Speaker 1: the games that are most popular in the world, they
Speaker 1: all have virtual assets, right, They sell skins, characters. You know,
Speaker 1: these are games like Fortnite that everybody's heard over their
Speaker 1: kids play. And I think the next step in the
Speaker 1: evolution of these digital assets is that they're gonna sit
Speaker 1: on a blockchain and people are going to really have
Speaker 1: ownership of them, and yet there's a huge debate about
Speaker 1: the future of n f t s and gaming. A
Speaker 1: lot of folks in the gaming industry don't want this
Speaker 1: to be the future. Why do you think there's so
Speaker 1: much pushback? It reminds me a lot of free to play.
Speaker 1: You know, you and I were both kind of around
Speaker 1: when this came out, and free to play as a
Speaker 1: business model came out gaming maybe around two thousand sight,
Speaker 1: and those early games and free to play were you know,
Speaker 1: they were like ZINGA games like farm Bill and Mafia Wars. Um.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of pushback from gamers. Then they said,
Speaker 1: these games aren't great. You know, they're not good, they're
Speaker 1: not fun, they're just viral, you know, something viral. They're
Speaker 1: not I don't want to pay like incrementally, I just
Speaker 1: want to pay upfront. And then, um, you know what
Speaker 1: happened was there was more investment in the model. People
Speaker 1: build better games, uh, people build games that they want
Speaker 1: to play in general. And then what happened was, you know,
Speaker 1: ten years later, now it's like every game is a
Speaker 1: free to play game in the markets, with like tens
Speaker 1: of billions of dollars a year in digital assets and
Speaker 1: so I think the same thing is you know, can
Speaker 1: be said of crypto or crypto games. You know, people
Speaker 1: are saying, uh, these games aren't good yet there you know,
Speaker 1: we don't need n f T s Like this is
Speaker 1: not something that gamers want, but I think it's it's
Speaker 1: actually something that will become that predominant model as the
Speaker 1: games become better. That said, where do you see hype
Speaker 1: in this industry, whether it's about n f T s
Speaker 1: or crypto or play to earn? I know you're not
Speaker 1: a huge fan of that in particular. I mean, are
Speaker 1: their technologies that you see getting a disproported disproportionate amount
Speaker 1: of attention that shouldn't be well. I think that the
Speaker 1: kind of fundraising, like the the amounts that games are raising,
Speaker 1: is what capturing, is capturing the imagination of both the
Speaker 1: game studios and players. And sometimes it's you know, people
Speaker 1: are like, oh, it's ridiculous that these teams that haven't
Speaker 1: launched yet or have very rude mentory gameplay compared to
Speaker 1: like a Triple A title, you know, the traditional world,
Speaker 1: you know, raising hundreds of millions of dollars or like
Speaker 1: have these economies that are with billions of dollars you know,
Speaker 1: and they think it's overhyped. Into some extent that might
Speaker 1: be true, So I think that the fundraising aspect is
Speaker 1: a little bit overhyped. What what's really exciting to me
Speaker 1: as a technologist is just this idea of like these
Speaker 1: games becoming shifting from closed economies where you know, the
Speaker 1: game company controls everything to really open economies where there's
Speaker 1: an ecosystem of developers and players who control what happens
Speaker 1: in the economy. And to me, that's going to inspire
Speaker 1: more people like these games to become platforms on top
Speaker 1: which many different developers build experiences, and um, these open
Speaker 1: ecosystems I think are going to be like much more
Speaker 1: durable and worth a lot more in the future. Now
Speaker 1: we're saying a fight to own the future of deep
Speaker 1: by among venture capitalists and bigger players like Jack Dorsey.
Speaker 1: The Information just had a controversial headline talking about how
Speaker 1: Mark Entrieson and Jack Dorrisey are kind of starting off
Speaker 1: the Holy War of crypto. You know, what do you
Speaker 1: think about the competition to invest in this space and
Speaker 1: whether it'll really be decentralized at all or whether it's
Speaker 1: just a different group of players owning it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think the argument really is between them like kind of
Speaker 1: how much decentralization is enough decentralization right and not? Jack
Speaker 1: on one side, it's like, you know, these vcs are
Speaker 1: funding and owning a large portion of these protocols, it's
Speaker 1: not like truly decentralized. And um. I think Mark's position,
Speaker 1: you know, want speed for him would be like, well,
Speaker 1: someone's got to fund these things, and it's like decentralized enough.
Speaker 1: And I think it really depends how the answer the question.
Speaker 1: It really depends on what your use case is. I
Speaker 1: think so for something that's like bigcoin, which is a
Speaker 1: store of value for this massive amount of people in
Speaker 1: the world, you really want like a huge amount of decentralization. Um.
Speaker 1: And I think for you know, something that's maybe more
Speaker 1: like a game, uh, you know, might be variable how
Speaker 1: much decentralization you really need, um, you know, because like
Speaker 1: how much they like how important the assets are that
Speaker 1: there's like truecentralization and no one could ever you know,
Speaker 1: take control over this or or or you know, Like
Speaker 1: I think that's it kind of depends on the use right,
Speaker 1: Like defied might be like much more security might be
Speaker 1: the most important thing for the game. It might fall
Speaker 1: somewhere in the middle. Now you've made a choice fairly
Speaker 1: early on to build on the Salona blockchain versus Ethereum.
Speaker 1: Why yeah, Well, so you know what prevented me from
Speaker 1: getting into crypto as a builder for longest time was usability.
Speaker 1: You know. I was like, I I saw Ethereum with
Speaker 1: intry invested in the theorem. Actually I bought a fum,
Speaker 1: you know, like in Seen, I was like, this is
Speaker 1: really interesting, but I didn't really see how you could
Speaker 1: build an application with the transaction through put of something
Speaker 1: like twitch, you know, um on it. And so what
Speaker 1: really got me excited about Salana was, you know, for
Speaker 1: the first time, I really felt like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: normal people could build on top of this, and you
Speaker 1: can build something that reached a mass audience because the
Speaker 1: kind of trans transaction speed and cost was low enough
Speaker 1: that it made sense for maybe something more like a
Speaker 1: gaming use case where you might have like many different
Speaker 1: n f T S n f T items in a
Speaker 1: game and you might trade in and out of them
Speaker 1: like very quickly within one playing session. You know. So
Speaker 1: it really was like a usability you know choice, But
Speaker 1: like at the end of the day, fractal wants to
Speaker 1: be wherever game studios want to be, and so our
Speaker 1: goal is to become multi chain and expand to everywhere
Speaker 1: that game companies want to build their products. All right,
Speaker 1: Justin Con, We'll be watching to see where this goes.
Speaker 1: You'll have to come back soon for a progress report.
Speaker 1: Twitch and Fractal co founder Justin Con thank you. Right Line,
Speaker 1: which provides virtual behavioral and mental health services to kids
Speaker 1: and their family has just raised an additional hundred five
Speaker 1: million dollars in funding led by the private equity firm KKR,
Speaker 1: along with earlier investors like alphabet What's to come? I
Speaker 1: want to bring in Bright Lene, CEO and co founder
Speaker 1: Naomi Allen. Naomi, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 1: We've been hearing a lot about the mental health crisis,
Speaker 1: behavioral health crisis facing kids and teams across the country,
Speaker 1: in part as a result of the pandemic. What is
Speaker 1: the need you believe is not being met that you're
Speaker 1: trying to fill with technology, Emily, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: The need is a national, high quality, accessible and affordable
Speaker 1: solution for families. So today, even pre COVID, one of
Speaker 1: five kids had a diagnosipal behavioral health condition and eight
Speaker 1: didn't not get appropriate treatment. And that's because historically care
Speaker 1: has been really hard to access and hard to pay
Speaker 1: for for families. So how does Brightline solve that problem
Speaker 1: and make sure that it's solving it with quality care?
Speaker 1: Great question. We've built a care delivery system where we
Speaker 1: hire and manage our own team of pediatric trained coaches, therapists, psychiatrists,
Speaker 1: and speech language pathologists. We bring those services to insurance companies,
Speaker 1: and we contract with those insurance companies to make sure
Speaker 1: the services are affordable to families, and then we provide
Speaker 1: those services virtually so that no matter where you sit
Speaker 1: in the country, you can access high quality behavioral healthcare
Speaker 1: for your kids. We've built this all through a model
Speaker 1: which has been proven and tested to be effective, and
Speaker 1: we measure clinical outcomes every single week for the children
Speaker 1: that are in our care. How would you say the
Speaker 1: pandemic has exacerbated this crisis? You said one in five
Speaker 1: before the pandemic. What's that number now? The incidence rates
Speaker 1: of pediatric anxiety and depression have bokene up about and
Speaker 1: there's new data that was just released last week by
Speaker 1: the CDC saying that one in five teams have considered
Speaker 1: committing suicide in the past year. So what we're seeing
Speaker 1: is across the country and frankly even globally, a sharp
Speaker 1: increase in terms of the need and the severity level
Speaker 1: of pediatric we here about hot conditions, and again that
Speaker 1: was building on already a point of crisis for the country.
Speaker 1: And I think the other thing that we're seeing is
Speaker 1: an acute shortage of clinicians and especially clinicians that are
Speaker 1: willing to be in network with insurance companies, and so
Speaker 1: the affordability crisis is real as well. So with better
Speaker 1: access and better care, how do you think those numbers
Speaker 1: can change. Yeah, we believe that there's no reason for
Speaker 1: kids all cross the United States not to be able
Speaker 1: to receive care within a few short days of seeking
Speaker 1: care and treatment. Now, we have a long way to
Speaker 1: go as a country, still working on stigma with parents
Speaker 1: and caregivers, but we're seeing actually stigma go down meaningfully
Speaker 1: amongst the new generation of children, adolescents and teens. So
Speaker 1: that's that's good news. We're seeing actually a lot more
Speaker 1: openness and so what we need to do is create
Speaker 1: affordable and high quality access and that's really what bright
Speaker 1: Line is scaling across the country. You know, the other
Speaker 1: thing that we think is critical is reducing the lack
Speaker 1: of equity and equitable access. Today, seventy of the counties
Speaker 1: in the United States don't have a single child or
Speaker 1: adolescent psychiatrist. And so one of the ways you reduce
Speaker 1: that that lack of equity is by scaling using technology.
Speaker 1: So we've built a virtual solution to reach kids and
Speaker 1: families no matter where they are in the country. All right,
Speaker 1: we'll be watching, Naomi Allen, co founder and CEO of
Speaker 1: bright Line. Thanks for sharing your story with us. And
Speaker 1: that does it for the edition of Bloomberg Technology. Don't
Speaker 1: forget to check out our new podcast find it anywhere
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. For our daily news round up,
Speaker 1: I'm Emily Chang in San Francisco. Have a wonderful weekend. Everyone.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg