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Speaker 1: Film Spotting is presented by Regal Unlimited, the all you

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Speaker 1: can watch movie subscription pass that pays for itself in

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Speaker 1: Regal app or at the link in our description and

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Speaker 1: use code film spot twenty six to receive fifteen percent off.

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Speaker 2: What kind of a show you guys putting on here today?

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Speaker 3: You're not interested in art? Now? No, Look, we're going

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Speaker 3: to do this thing. We're going to have a conversation.

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Speaker 1: From Chicago. This is film Spotting.

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Speaker 2: I'm Josh Larson and I'm Adam Kempinard Kiss me, let's

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Speaker 2: both be tunned.

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Speaker 1: Director Emerald Fanel follows up her earlier provocations promising Young

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Speaker 1: Woman and Saltburn with one directed at lovers of literature

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Speaker 1: Wuthering Heights.

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Speaker 2: I like those air quotes you made their Josh Mariah

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Speaker 2: Gates will join us for that review, plus John Ford's

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Speaker 2: Best Picture winning How Green Was My Valley? That more

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Speaker 2: ahead on film Spotting. Welcome to Film Spotting. Later in

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Speaker 2: the show, an eighty fifth anniversary review of How Green

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Speaker 2: Was My Valley? John Ford's Best Picture winning film it's

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Speaker 2: the eighty fourth anniversary of it taking the best picture

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Speaker 2: Oscar over Citizen Kane. Neither of those reasons are why

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Speaker 2: we're talking about it, though, Josh.

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Speaker 1: How dare How Green Was My Valley? Do that steal

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Speaker 1: that Oscar from Citizen I.

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Speaker 2: Know, I know, but it's part of our pantheon project.

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Speaker 2: Over the next three weeks we will be talking about

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Speaker 2: three films that are vying for that valhalla a place

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Speaker 2: in the Film Spotting pantheon. We nominated nine films on

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Speaker 2: our last show. How Green Was My Valley is the

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Speaker 2: first one up, A lind spot for Me. Also later

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Speaker 2: Listener's Way In and Boy do they on their favorite

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Speaker 2: nineties movies soundtracks? We really struck a chord with this one, Josh.

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Speaker 1: We tapped that nostalgia well, is what we yes.

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Speaker 4: Indeed.

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Speaker 2: A quick reminder, Film Spotting is now available as a

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Speaker 2: video podcast. Please like, share, subscribe, whatever they say. You

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Speaker 2: can watch the show on YouTube, YouTube dot com slash

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Speaker 2: film spotting. If you're not there already. For a link

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Speaker 2: to video episodes all of our episodes, you can go

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Speaker 2: to film spotting dot net slash episodes. First up, Wuthering Heights.

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Speaker 4: What should you do here, Cliff, Well, if you were rich, I.

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Speaker 3: Suppose and do all Richmond doing live in a big house.

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Speaker 3: It wan be cruel to my servants.

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Speaker 2: Tech a wife. We are so pleased to be joined

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Speaker 2: now by Mariah E.

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Speaker 4: Gates. Mariah, thank you.

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Speaker 2: It's been a little bit and we are eager to

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Speaker 2: talk to you about Wuthering Heights, which we will get

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Speaker 2: to in a moment, but also your book, which came

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Speaker 2: out last year. We've been planning this to have you

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Speaker 2: on and how how has that been?

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Speaker 4: I know you were on tour.

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Speaker 3: You know it's been. It's been ups and downs. It

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Speaker 3: actually I was thinking about this. It celebrates its one

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Speaker 3: year of pub anniversary on February twenty ninth, which is

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Speaker 3: the Leap Day. Therefore, does it actually celebrate or do

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Speaker 3: I have to celebrate every four years?

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Speaker 5: I don't I'm confised.

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Speaker 3: You know. I went on a bit of a tour

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Speaker 3: and wait, you know, I had a screenings at MoMA

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Speaker 3: and a Cammy Museum which was really cool, and vidiots

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Speaker 3: and Miranda July I told a sold out audience that

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Speaker 3: it was one of the best design books she'd ever seen,

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Speaker 3: So that was really nice.

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Speaker 2: I meant, just for the record. I meant to hold

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Speaker 2: it up here on the video.

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Speaker 4: But I loved it.

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Speaker 5: I totally forgot to bring it I left my office,

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Speaker 5: so I love.

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Speaker 4: To show it off.

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Speaker 2: Makes me feel very learned in my office.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and in December it got listed on citan Sound's

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Speaker 3: ten Best Film Books of the Year, so that was

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Speaker 3: unexpected and a really nice sort of capper for the year.

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Speaker 3: So for really good things, it's it's for sale and

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Speaker 3: a lot of random places too.

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Speaker 5: Someone was at the Brilliant Film Festival.

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Speaker 3: I went to a bookstore in Berlin and it was

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Speaker 3: there next to like, you know, all these other really

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Speaker 3: big like Gonder Bison and stuff.

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Speaker 5: So I feel, you know, it feels.

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Speaker 2: Good cinema per way visionary female directors, and I want

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Speaker 2: to make sure I nail it here. Visionary female directors

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Speaker 2: in their own words, You didn't talk to.

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Speaker 5: These visionary female.

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Speaker 2: Nineteen women, you interviewed them, Alis and Andrews, Jane Campion

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Speaker 2: a favorite here on film spotting, Mary L.

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Speaker 3: Heller, Julie Dash, mayor of New York.

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Speaker 2: New York, which I did just learn for the first

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Speaker 2: time about three weeks ago. That was that was interesting

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Speaker 2: new information.

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Speaker 3: He tells a little story about him in my interview

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Speaker 3: with her, if anyone really is interesting.

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Speaker 1: So there's a tease, Marina, kind of a it's.

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Speaker 3: A post, it's a post nine to eleven, sort of

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Speaker 3: what it was like to be a teenager in New

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Speaker 3: York at that time. It's kind of it's kind of

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Speaker 3: a bittersweet story, but it's it's good.

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Speaker 1: I just want to recommend the book as well, Mariah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's not only full of those great interviews,

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Speaker 1: but it's gorgeous. It looks amazing, and and it prompted

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Speaker 1: I know, we had hoped to talk about it. We

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Speaker 1: didn't get a chance to, but I did end up

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Speaker 1: watching Love and Basketball because that's what we had discussed,

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Speaker 1: and it was one that I just needed, you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes when we watched so many movies, you need a

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Speaker 1: little nudge, like put this one to the top of

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Speaker 1: the line. And your book was that for Love and

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Speaker 1: Basketball for me, which I ended up you know, really adoring.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so the other readers will have experiences like

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Speaker 1: that picking up your book and like, Okay, I got

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Speaker 1: to check this one out.

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Speaker 2: Not only that, not only did I watch Love and

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Speaker 2: Basketball for the same reason, and and really like love

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Speaker 2: and basketball. But in my Sport and Film class last semester,

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Speaker 2: one of the two essay topics I gave Layton the

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Speaker 2: semester was a comparison of a League of their own

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Speaker 2: and love in Basketball nice and I wanted the students

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Speaker 2: to examine the final choices that the characters make in

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Speaker 2: those movies so that that paid off for me your

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Speaker 2: book and prodding me to finally see that film paid

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Speaker 2: off in an academic setting.

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Speaker 3: For use it for readers who love a little bit

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Speaker 3: of guidance. On the back of the book, there's actually

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Speaker 3: a checklist and so you can like physically check off

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Speaker 3: the movies as you watch them if you're not like

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Speaker 3: a letterboxed person. But I think it's fun that the designer,

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Speaker 3: her name is Kaylee, and she she came up with that.

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Speaker 3: She's like, I love I love something tactile in a book,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, if you have the budget for it,

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Speaker 3: let's do it. So she's a real genius, I think.

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Speaker 3: And it's been really rewarding to here's stories like that.

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Speaker 3: I've had a few people reach out here in Chicago.

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Speaker 3: I played a thirty five millimeter print with Bright Star

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Speaker 3: very selfishly because I never got seen on the big

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Speaker 3: screen and I wanted to see it, and as several

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Speaker 3: hundred people showed up, but we actually sold out. The

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Speaker 3: bookseller did not bring enough books to that screening, which

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Speaker 3: quite felt good. But I've since then had several younger centophiles.

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Speaker 3: I hate to admit that I am now a middle

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Speaker 3: aged but I am, and several much younger centophiles have

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Speaker 3: reached out and said, like, coming to that screening sort

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Speaker 3: of changed their life, Like that movie changed their life.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, yes, that movie will change their life.

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Speaker 3: But if that was particularly rewarding to hear that, being

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Speaker 3: able to get that programs in the music box, being

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Speaker 3: so gracious in tracking out thirty five millimeter print for

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Speaker 3: me got like a whole new generation to come to

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Speaker 3: that movie.

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Speaker 5: And I hope the.

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Speaker 3: Book will do that for several films, whether you get

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Speaker 3: see it on the big screen or not.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's great the goal.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, I guess we've gathered here to also

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Speaker 1: talk about a new film from a woman director, Wuthering Heights,

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Speaker 1: So let's jump in to that, and you know what,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about adaptations here. I think there's no way

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Speaker 1: around that topic when it comes to a formative novel

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Speaker 1: like Wathering Heights, which you know has been frequently translated

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Speaker 1: to the big screen. It's a classic teen read, but

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Speaker 1: I think it's also a book that people return to

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Speaker 1: throughout their lives, at least judging by my own experience

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Speaker 1: and honestly by the age range from undergrads to midlifers

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Speaker 1: in the sold out University Town theater where I saw it,

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Speaker 1: so it is hard to separate book from movie. In

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Speaker 1: the case of Wathering Heights, Emily Bronte's eighteen forty seven

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Speaker 1: novel centers on two souls who are locked in this

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Speaker 1: lifelong struggle in which friendship, jealousy, rivalry and romance all

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Speaker 1: merge amidst the moody Yorkshire Moors. Writer director Emerald Fanel

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Speaker 1: She of Saltburn and Promising Young Woman, is the latest

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Speaker 1: filmmaker to take on the tale, with Margot Robbie and

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Speaker 1: Jacob Alordi as her Catherine and Heathcliffe. Now, despite its

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Speaker 1: literary lineage, I wanted to start a conversation in a

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Speaker 1: way that allows us to talk about this Weathering Heights

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Speaker 1: both as an adaptation and as its own independent work

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Speaker 1: of art. So let me propose two questions for you

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Speaker 1: both to consider about Finelle's film in relation to the book.

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Speaker 1: What did she do to it? And what did she

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Speaker 1: do with it? So the first question takes the novel

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Speaker 1: into account, it perhaps takes it into account as this

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Speaker 1: standard bearer that the movie has to be measured against.

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Speaker 1: But the second, the second, disregards the novel and is

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Speaker 1: only concerned with what's on the screen. Feel free, You

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Speaker 1: guys can answer either question, or if you want to,

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Speaker 1: you can answer both. But I am curious what does

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Speaker 1: Fanelle's Weathering Heights do to the novel? And what does

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Speaker 1: it do with the novel? Mariah as our guests, do

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Speaker 1: you mind if we start with you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So this was a novel I read, like you

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Speaker 3: said first, when I was thirteen. I had no guidance.

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Speaker 3: I was just really into like Hawthorn and all kinds

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Speaker 3: of stuff, reading things I should not have been reading

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Speaker 3: without any help. And so to your answer of what

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Speaker 3: it does to the novel, I actually kind of answers both.

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Speaker 3: This answers I think well answered both questions with one

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Speaker 3: story one. I then obviously watched the nineteen thirty nine version,

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Speaker 3: and when I first saw that movie, I hated it

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Speaker 3: because it butchers the novel, like rips it to pieces,

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Speaker 3: throws out all kinds of characters, makes it a romance.

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Speaker 5: I was like, this is stupid. It was really against it.

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Speaker 3: And then you know, then I got older and I

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Speaker 3: was like, oh, you know what, this is its own thing,

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Speaker 3: and actually it's one of the great Hollywood romances. Should

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Speaker 3: Wuthering Heights be one of the great Hollywood romances? Is

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Speaker 3: a whole other question that you put over to the side, right,

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Speaker 3: But that's really what it does. And I think what

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Speaker 3: this film does is and I think Fanelle has said

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Speaker 3: this in a few of her interviews trying to like

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Speaker 3: te people up for what she was doing is she's

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Speaker 3: trying to capture what it felt like to read the

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Speaker 3: book for the first time. It sounds to me like

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Speaker 3: she also read it without any guidance, without any analysis

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Speaker 3: of what it's trying to do in terms of race

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Speaker 3: and class and like the inbred sort of disgusting landed

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Speaker 3: gentry versus new money society and England and all of

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Speaker 3: that that.

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Speaker 5: It does really well.

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Speaker 3: Instead, she captures for me what it felt like to

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Speaker 3: read it and be thirteen and be like, wow, this

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Speaker 3: is horrible because you know, and I remember reading the book.

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Speaker 3: I don't remember thinking about class or race or anything.

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Speaker 3: I just remember thinking this is violent and strange and

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Speaker 3: a little erotic, and I'm confused, and I feel like

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Speaker 3: the book, I feel like her movie captures that feeling.

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Speaker 5: Is that the greatest way to adapt in a book?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, Like I can't answer that adaption and

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Speaker 3: takes so many different forms, but for me, and I

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Speaker 3: think Vanella and I are the same age, so it

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Speaker 3: feels like I feel like I have a affinity for

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Speaker 3: her films because we're about the same age, because she

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Speaker 3: loved boz Lehman, because she takes bos Lehman kind of

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Speaker 3: style and puts it on everything, which also, I don't

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Speaker 3: know if that's you know, folly or not, but I

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Speaker 3: vibe with it. For me, when I watched this a

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Speaker 3: week and a half ago, I felt like I was

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Speaker 3: thirteen again and I was reading it and I was

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Speaker 3: romanticizing Heathcliffe when I shouldn't have, and I was empathizing

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Speaker 3: with Kathy even though she's really selfish and makes stupid

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Speaker 3: decisions based on fear as opposed to like thinking it through.

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Speaker 3: So for me, it's a film rooted in feeling and

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Speaker 3: rooting not just rooted in the feeling of the characters,

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Speaker 3: but the feeling of reading a book that you don't understand.

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Speaker 3: I think it's purposeful that it's not, as you know,

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Speaker 3: to the letter as some of the other adaptations, although

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Speaker 3: I would argue having I haven't seen as many as

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Speaker 3: Bilga Abiri, who wrote for Vulture he watched thirty two adaptations,

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Speaker 3: which is crazy. I have not seen thirty two adaptations,

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Speaker 3: but I've seen several, and I do think all the

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Speaker 3: ones I've seen did similar changes throughout. Characters ended it,

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Speaker 3: you know, halfway through the book, so you know, I

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Speaker 3: don't know. I guess a lot of the conversation that's happening,

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Speaker 3: I feel is a little too pandemic in terms of

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Speaker 3: what an adaptation owes to a book, because I, quite

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Speaker 3: frankly to your second question, I don't know how much

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Speaker 3: it owes. I know that I am guilty of sometimes

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Speaker 3: getting mad at an adaptation because it didn't bring what

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Speaker 3: I wanted from a book, and so I understand that reaction.

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Speaker 3: You know, when the Pride and Prejudice came out in

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Speaker 3: two thousand and five, I hated it.

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Speaker 5: I actually haven't rewatched it. I probably should.

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Speaker 3: I probably like it better now than when I was

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Speaker 3: nineteen and thought it was a bad adaptation.

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Speaker 5: Does that answer your question?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely? Okay, Yeah, thank you very much. I'm sure we

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Speaker 1: can dive into some of those thoughts more in detail,

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Speaker 1: but first, yeah, I want to hear what Adam has

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Speaker 1: to say.

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Speaker 2: She certainly has a more informed answer than me, because

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Speaker 2: somehow never assigned Wuthering Heights one of those classics. I

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Speaker 2: was never as and then bad English major. I never

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Speaker 2: never sought it out on my own. Now, you may

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Speaker 2: recall Josh that Andrea Arnold's film adaptation of Weathering Heights

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Speaker 2: because our twenty twelve Golden Brick winner. Yeah, and it

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Speaker 2: beat out we had. We had different criteria then, but

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Speaker 2: it beat out some pretty formidable movies like Oslo August

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Speaker 2: thirty first from Yoakim Treer and Once upon a Time

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Speaker 2: in Anatolia. So you know, we really swooned for Weathering

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Speaker 2: Heights then, though I don't know if we really swooned

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Speaker 2: necessarily over its romanticism. I don't remember. That's the thing.

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Speaker 2: We'll have to go back, and that's how I wanted

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Speaker 2: to go back. Yeah, it was harsher Harsher adaptation. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Harsher in terms of certainly how it it reflected or

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Speaker 2: how it portrayed the environment and the landscape. Now one

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Speaker 2: can of worms we could open up, and I can

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Speaker 2: only open it up because I, again don't know the

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Speaker 2: source material well enough. I know that Andrea Arnold's version

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Speaker 2: didn't change the race of Heathcliff, and knowing knowing the

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Speaker 2: Arnold version, I'm not totally sure I understand why why

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Speaker 2: Finnell made that.

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Speaker 3: There's another there's another great article about that. I think

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Speaker 3: it was also Vulture, where it's not actually agreed among

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Speaker 3: literary scholars whether it.

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Speaker 5: Was he black, Irish?

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Speaker 3: Was he? You know? I also want to point out,

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Speaker 3: and I feel very strongly this should be pointed out

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Speaker 3: anytime that Arnold version is discussed. The actor that they

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Speaker 3: cast is Heathcliff. His voice was dubbed over. They didn't

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Speaker 3: tell him that. They didn't actually talk about this. It

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Speaker 3: wasn't talked about until he got into legal troubles afterwards.

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Speaker 3: His life was basically ruined by doing this movie because

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Speaker 3: they took him, you know, he was a non professional.

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Speaker 1: It's the adult, Mariah, this is the adult the adult

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Speaker 1: actor James house.

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Speaker 5: He never did.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he never did anything else. It was like a

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Speaker 3: traumatic experience for him. So on one hand, like, I'm

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Speaker 3: glad she tried to do what, you know, some scholars

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Speaker 3: say is what Heathcliffe was. But at the same time,

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Speaker 3: I don't know that that that production handled it with care.

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Speaker 3: How they did the casting. They you know, they didn't

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Speaker 3: even tell the guy they took his voice away until

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Speaker 3: he saw it publicly, which is really shitty.

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Speaker 1: Because I remember, as much as I'd liked the movie,

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Speaker 1: one of my reservations was the performance of the adult Heathcliff. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's itaground.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's something I remember reading when the film came out,

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Speaker 3: and then I shoved it away because, as you know,

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Speaker 3: we watched a lot of movies, you forget things. And

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Speaker 3: then I looked it up again because I was rewatching

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Speaker 3: bits that it's on Criterion Channel, and I wanted to

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Speaker 3: have some you know, some counterpoints, you know, with the

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Speaker 3: finel and look at other adaptations. And I actually think

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Speaker 3: he gives a great physical performance, and I truly I

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Speaker 3: wish I would know what his audible performance was, because

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Speaker 3: the physical performance is is quite something, and to know

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Speaker 3: all of that what happened afterwards with the actor and

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Speaker 3: how he's like disappeared, like there's no updates after.

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Speaker 5: The legal troubles happened.

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Speaker 3: It's it's kind of it's difficult and then and then

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Speaker 3: it as you know, layers of like people have been

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Speaker 3: pointing to that film as like a better way to

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Speaker 3: do it, and like is that a better way to

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Speaker 3: do it? If then your manner, you know, sort of

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Speaker 3: ended up not being great for the performer in the film.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, And Arnold doesn't like talking about the film,

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Speaker 3: and I imagine this is probably why there's not enough

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Speaker 3: there's not enough information out there to know was it

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Speaker 3: her choice to dub him? Were she strong armed into

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Speaker 3: dubbing him? Like you know, that would definitely be an

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Speaker 3: interesting like if someone can investigate that. But I also

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Speaker 3: don't want to like re up something that would like

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Speaker 3: hurt that man over again, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 5: So I guess I guess what I.

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Speaker 3: Find fascinating about this discussion not to hijack is there's

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Speaker 3: so many different interpretations of what Heathcliffe could be, of course,

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Speaker 3: you know, and it's I think if you discuss it

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Speaker 3: and then hold up one film as the best way

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Speaker 3: to do it. You have to look at it holistically

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Speaker 3: of like not just the what's on film, but this

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Speaker 3: baggage that comes with the film. And I don't think

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Speaker 3: a lot of people are doing that. It feels very

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Speaker 3: bad faith discussion to sort of throw Fanel under the bus,

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Speaker 3: which you could throw under the bus, that's fine, it's

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Speaker 3: just if you are going to do that, I feel

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Speaker 3: like you need to have the whole picture.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't have that whole picture though. What

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Speaker 2: I've also heard people people suggest, and I think this

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Speaker 2: was certainly part of what I remember from the Arnold version,

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Speaker 2: is regardless of what you say specifically about race and

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Speaker 2: what Heathcliff's race exactly, should be depicted as this sense

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Speaker 2: of Heathcliff as the other. Yes, I think that comes

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Speaker 2: through stronger at least in no I agree with Arnold's version,

365
00:19:13,205 --> 00:19:16,805
Speaker 2: whereas here it's it's just purely for me a class distinction,

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Speaker 2: and that maybe isn't quite as strong or as complex

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Speaker 2: is it is it could be. In terms of this

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Speaker 2: adaptation question, I know, Josh, you're at this point really

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Speaker 2: tired of hearing my doctrine, and some listeners probably are too.

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Speaker 2: But it goes to answering my question or your question.

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Speaker 2: And it's ironic here I argue right that if you're

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Speaker 2: customarily reviewing movies and are thinking of reading the book

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Speaker 2: before seeing the movie, you should see the movie first

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Speaker 2: because one, you won't be doing the movie the disservice

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Speaker 2: of comparing it the whole time, which is kind of

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Speaker 2: what Mariah said, she's maybe even count on it.

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Speaker 4: Can't help, but do it.

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Speaker 2: We're human, we cannot help, but do it. And then two,

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Speaker 2: if you really like the movie, or just even just

380
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Speaker 2: like the movie, it's quite possible you'll like the book

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Speaker 2: even more because it will expand the universe. You'll have

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Speaker 2: richer and or more characters, richer and or more world building,

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Speaker 2: et cetera. The movie, by its nature has to contract,

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Speaker 2: and as a viewer, you're thinking about what's lost when

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Speaker 2: you could be thinking about reading the book what's gained.

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Speaker 4: That's my theory.

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Speaker 3: You know what's interesting going off that one of my

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Speaker 3: favorite movies slash books is The English Patient. I watched

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Speaker 3: the movie first, then I read the book, then I

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Speaker 3: read the script. When I was in film school, I

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Speaker 3: read I did all three. And in the book, Catherine,

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Speaker 3: the character played by Christin Scott Thomas. She's like a

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Speaker 3: minor character and in the movie she's such a big character.

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Speaker 5: She got nominated for Best Actress.

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Speaker 3: You know so and I read, and I think it's

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Speaker 3: in the intro for the script maybe like I had

397
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Speaker 3: the printed book. Anthony Maghella said. What he did is

398
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Speaker 3: he read the book. He was so enamored with it.

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Speaker 3: He immediately got the rights. Then he left the book home,

400
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Speaker 3: went to the coast, wrote the script based on what

401
00:21:06,845 --> 00:21:09,645
Speaker 3: he remembered, and so so he wanted to make a

402
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Speaker 3: film based on his impression of reading the book, which

403
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Speaker 3: I think is similar to what exactly, which I think

404
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Speaker 3: is similar to the appro I think.

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Speaker 2: I'm very pro yeah, generally, and and sure there are

406
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Speaker 2: always going to be exceptions to what I just said.

407
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Speaker 2: I probably think about For me, the text book example

408
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Speaker 2: would be my favorite movie maybe and the first case

409
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Speaker 2: where I ever did this, which is the World according

410
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Speaker 2: to Garp And you take a two hour movie and

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Speaker 2: then go to the Irving novel, and of course it's

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Speaker 2: going to expand. So with Wuthering Heights, having not read

413
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Speaker 2: the book first, I should be blissfully unaware of anything.

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Speaker 4: That would be lacking.

415
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Speaker 2: Yet the whole time I'm watching it, I was distracted

416
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Speaker 2: thinking about everything I could only assume the book has

417
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Speaker 2: to provide, thus offering the more rewarding experience. I was

418
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Speaker 2: still comparing it to the book, even though I've never

419
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Speaker 2: seen it. But I just felt like the movie was

420
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Speaker 2: begging me to compare it to the book. And I

421
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Speaker 2: actually do really want to read the book.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: I guess I'll give Finell credit for that, but not

424
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Speaker 2: to expand, but to fill in blanks I feel like

425
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Speaker 2: I need, and I'll just give you three major ones.

426
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Speaker 2: And it's it's not really because I was confused in

427
00:22:20,365 --> 00:22:22,805
Speaker 2: the sense of I didn't follow it. I mean I

428
00:22:22,845 --> 00:22:25,525
Speaker 2: mean confused in a in an engaging in a really

429
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Speaker 2: rewarding way. The brutality or the bruteness of Heathcliffe, the

430
00:22:31,325 --> 00:22:34,765
Speaker 2: depths of his nefariousness that I don't think Fanelle can

431
00:22:34,965 --> 00:22:37,405
Speaker 2: can quite put her finger on, and then accordingly, I

432
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Speaker 2: don't think a Lordie can quite portray. I just can

433
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Speaker 2: only assume that has to be clearer and more complex

434
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Speaker 2: in the book, the revenge element Heathcliff vowing to make

435
00:22:49,045 --> 00:22:52,525
Speaker 2: Kathy suffer for his in his mind, having to leave

436
00:22:52,605 --> 00:22:56,805
Speaker 2: Wuthering Heights, that is introduced and then so quickly discarded.

437
00:22:56,845 --> 00:22:59,565
Speaker 2: Here I could be wrong. I just have to imagine

438
00:23:00,125 --> 00:23:04,565
Speaker 2: is more interesting and deeper in the book. The entirety

439
00:23:04,685 --> 00:23:09,525
Speaker 2: of the character of Isabella, but specifically her psychology and

440
00:23:09,565 --> 00:23:11,645
Speaker 2: the nature of the relationship between her.

441
00:23:11,485 --> 00:23:13,925
Speaker 5: And Heathcliffe has some of the biggest like.

442
00:23:17,325 --> 00:23:18,885
Speaker 4: I have seen I have seen.

443
00:23:20,205 --> 00:23:23,445
Speaker 2: On Instagram. I have seen some conflict over this character

444
00:23:23,485 --> 00:23:27,085
Speaker 2: and what Fanelle has done to Isabella. And I know

445
00:23:27,165 --> 00:23:31,325
Speaker 2: that some argue hers is a feminist story of empowerment

446
00:23:31,405 --> 00:23:35,405
Speaker 2: and that Fanell completely defanged her by turning her into

447
00:23:35,405 --> 00:23:39,765
Speaker 2: this simpering submissive, and others counter that actually she's making

448
00:23:39,805 --> 00:23:42,325
Speaker 2: her own choices and this is one of Fanell's more

449
00:23:42,405 --> 00:23:47,325
Speaker 2: provocative alterations. I don't know about any of that beyond

450
00:23:47,325 --> 00:23:48,485
Speaker 2: two things. Here's the two things.

451
00:23:48,525 --> 00:23:48,965
Speaker 4: I'll tell you.

452
00:23:49,685 --> 00:23:54,725
Speaker 2: I didn't get enough to see her character as anything

453
00:23:54,805 --> 00:24:01,205
Speaker 2: more than provocation. But but Allie and Oliver delivers a

454
00:24:01,245 --> 00:24:04,845
Speaker 2: line reading and everyone listening to this right now who

455
00:24:04,845 --> 00:24:07,725
Speaker 2: has seen the movie has to immediately know the line

456
00:24:07,765 --> 00:24:12,645
Speaker 2: I'm referring to that I'll argue actually is the most

457
00:24:12,685 --> 00:24:15,725
Speaker 2: provocative moment the film has to offer in terms of

458
00:24:15,765 --> 00:24:19,085
Speaker 2: it being a line and being a moment that knocks

459
00:24:19,365 --> 00:24:22,605
Speaker 2: me as a viewer, knocked me completely off my bearings

460
00:24:22,805 --> 00:24:30,325
Speaker 2: because it simultaneously seemed wrong on every human level, imaginable

461
00:24:31,085 --> 00:24:32,885
Speaker 2: but also kind of erotic.

462
00:24:33,525 --> 00:24:35,005
Speaker 4: And I don't think the movie.

463
00:24:35,325 --> 00:24:38,405
Speaker 2: I don't think the movie, for all it pretends to be,

464
00:24:39,845 --> 00:24:43,525
Speaker 2: has nearly nearly enough of those kinds of moments.

465
00:24:44,005 --> 00:24:47,325
Speaker 3: Well, I would say, I feel like Isabella at the

466
00:24:47,405 --> 00:24:49,685
Speaker 3: quote turn that happens. I think she lays it out

467
00:24:49,725 --> 00:24:54,765
Speaker 3: really well. She starts with her misinterpretation of Romeo and Juliet.

468
00:24:55,205 --> 00:24:58,325
Speaker 3: She then literally dresses Kathy up like she's a doll.

469
00:24:58,405 --> 00:25:02,805
Speaker 3: She literally makes a doll. She like tortures the doll.

470
00:25:03,245 --> 00:25:05,805
Speaker 3: I feel like the evolution of her is really well

471
00:25:05,885 --> 00:25:08,125
Speaker 3: laid out. I saw some of the takes where felt

472
00:25:08,165 --> 00:25:11,445
Speaker 3: they said they felt like it wasn't I disagreed. I

473
00:25:11,485 --> 00:25:15,205
Speaker 3: felt like that of all the characters and all their motivations,

474
00:25:15,285 --> 00:25:17,165
Speaker 3: that one the line is the clearest.

475
00:25:17,205 --> 00:25:20,565
Speaker 1: For me. I think, okay, well, I would yeah. For Isabella,

476
00:25:20,605 --> 00:25:23,805
Speaker 1: who you know, we should note to very small presence

477
00:25:23,845 --> 00:25:26,885
Speaker 1: in the novel. So it is interesting that she's expanded

478
00:25:26,925 --> 00:25:29,285
Speaker 1: to the degree she is here, but yet at the

479
00:25:29,325 --> 00:25:35,885
Speaker 1: same time she represents to me, the not inexplicable but unfathomable,

480
00:25:36,165 --> 00:25:40,885
Speaker 1: unfathomable madness that is maybe the quality of the novel

481
00:25:41,445 --> 00:25:46,285
Speaker 1: where you it's not illogical, but it's just unfathomable, Like

482
00:25:46,325 --> 00:25:50,045
Speaker 1: you can like, why how is this person thinking this

483
00:25:50,125 --> 00:25:55,365
Speaker 1: way and making the decisions they are Again in the novel,

484
00:25:55,405 --> 00:25:57,845
Speaker 1: it never strikes you as illogical. It's just like this

485
00:25:57,925 --> 00:26:01,445
Speaker 1: is a mind that has suffered a lot of abuse. Yeah,

486
00:26:01,525 --> 00:26:04,525
Speaker 1: maybe is dealing with a level of mental illness. And

487
00:26:04,565 --> 00:26:07,244
Speaker 1: this can apply to multiple characters and Wuthering Nights, by

488
00:26:07,285 --> 00:26:10,725
Speaker 1: the way, and I do think this vision of Isabella

489
00:26:10,845 --> 00:26:15,365
Speaker 1: captures that maybe better to your point, Adam, than like

490
00:26:15,645 --> 00:26:19,685
Speaker 1: this Heathcliff might I would say, you know, if I

491
00:26:19,725 --> 00:26:22,285
Speaker 1: were to go back and answer those two questions I posed.

492
00:26:23,005 --> 00:26:25,925
Speaker 1: First of all, Mariah, I had a very similar thought

493
00:26:25,965 --> 00:26:29,005
Speaker 1: to you, is that I think this is not a

494
00:26:29,045 --> 00:26:33,405
Speaker 1: movie about what Wuthering Heights really is. It may be

495
00:26:33,525 --> 00:26:37,885
Speaker 1: a movie about what we thought Wathering Heights was when

496
00:26:37,885 --> 00:26:43,245
Speaker 1: we read it as teenagers. Yeah, because definitely as as

497
00:26:43,485 --> 00:26:46,165
Speaker 1: and I think you know you mentioned more being maybe

498
00:26:46,205 --> 00:26:50,685
Speaker 1: confused and needed some guidance, but there is It's not

499
00:26:50,885 --> 00:26:56,005
Speaker 1: ridiculous that teenagers can read that book and find it romantic.

500
00:26:56,565 --> 00:26:58,445
Speaker 1: I don't think that's the point of the book, but

501
00:26:58,525 --> 00:27:01,845
Speaker 1: I think it's in there. I think Bronte laces it

502
00:27:01,885 --> 00:27:04,885
Speaker 1: with that. This is part of the confusion, is why

503
00:27:04,925 --> 00:27:07,765
Speaker 1: this shouldn't be romantic, But I'm finding it romantic. That's

504
00:27:07,845 --> 00:27:10,405
Speaker 1: part of what makes it such. You know, a book

505
00:27:10,445 --> 00:27:12,805
Speaker 1: that people return to because they can't wrap their minds

506
00:27:12,845 --> 00:27:14,565
Speaker 1: around it. And so I don't want to hold that

507
00:27:14,645 --> 00:27:21,125
Speaker 1: against a movie that is leaning into the romanticism to

508
00:27:21,285 --> 00:27:23,925
Speaker 1: a degree. So I would say, what did she do

509
00:27:24,125 --> 00:27:27,845
Speaker 1: to the book? Yes, I think she softened it. I

510
00:27:27,845 --> 00:27:30,325
Speaker 1: think she romanticized it. And this is despite all the

511
00:27:30,445 --> 00:27:33,845
Speaker 1: s and m because I'm sorry, that's not as disturbing

512
00:27:33,885 --> 00:27:38,085
Speaker 1: as what Bronte conceived in the novel. But I think

513
00:27:38,085 --> 00:27:42,205
Speaker 1: the romanticism Adam does flatten to your concerns, some things

514
00:27:42,285 --> 00:27:46,245
Speaker 1: that you noticed just as a narrative. And then for me,

515
00:27:46,285 --> 00:27:48,405
Speaker 1: what did she do with it? Here's what I think

516
00:27:48,445 --> 00:27:51,245
Speaker 1: we've got here. I think we've got a pseudo period

517
00:27:51,965 --> 00:27:57,685
Speaker 1: softcore romantic tragedy. And you know what, that's an intriguing

518
00:27:57,765 --> 00:28:01,245
Speaker 1: enough of an experiment for me that I think it's

519
00:28:01,285 --> 00:28:05,725
Speaker 1: a movie that is worth considering, maybe even aside from

520
00:28:05,885 --> 00:28:10,845
Speaker 1: its connections to the original novel, I think it's, you know,

521
00:28:11,085 --> 00:28:15,085
Speaker 1: is this Finelle offering something. It's frustrating because for me,

522
00:28:15,325 --> 00:28:19,805
Speaker 1: she's still not a vital filmmaker three films in, but

523
00:28:20,365 --> 00:28:24,605
Speaker 1: a continually interesting one, which is not a backhanded compliment.

524
00:28:24,605 --> 00:28:27,485
Speaker 1: I mean she's trying different things in different ways and

525
00:28:27,525 --> 00:28:32,645
Speaker 1: providing different perspectives on material that's familiar that she skews

526
00:28:33,605 --> 00:28:34,525
Speaker 1: in her own way.

527
00:28:34,965 --> 00:28:37,765
Speaker 3: I also do think to sort of what she brings

528
00:28:37,805 --> 00:28:39,765
Speaker 3: from the novel, I don't know that's quite the question.

529
00:28:39,885 --> 00:28:42,765
Speaker 3: But one layer that I really enjoyed from it that

530
00:28:42,805 --> 00:28:45,845
Speaker 3: I haven't seen a lot of discussion on is that

531
00:28:46,165 --> 00:28:50,765
Speaker 3: there are, in my opinion, some layers of the classism

532
00:28:51,085 --> 00:28:53,845
Speaker 3: and specifically the even though she doesn't get into the

533
00:28:53,845 --> 00:28:57,005
Speaker 3: second half of the book, specifically the way that both

534
00:28:57,085 --> 00:29:01,405
Speaker 3: forms of being rich in this period in England are

535
00:29:01,645 --> 00:29:05,325
Speaker 3: disease in that if you are a landed gentry, he

536
00:29:05,445 --> 00:29:08,285
Speaker 3: holds onto that to so with such a tight grip,

537
00:29:08,405 --> 00:29:11,725
Speaker 3: even though he's like not really tending to his land,

538
00:29:12,165 --> 00:29:16,685
Speaker 3: that it is this fallow, horrible rocky, like everyone's miserable

539
00:29:16,685 --> 00:29:19,685
Speaker 3: and there's blood everywhere, right and then the new money

540
00:29:20,165 --> 00:29:22,165
Speaker 3: guy who made his mon money and velvet, meaning he

541
00:29:22,205 --> 00:29:26,805
Speaker 3: made his money in enslaved labor. His entire house is

542
00:29:26,925 --> 00:29:30,085
Speaker 3: like is like a big version of the Dollhouse, but

543
00:29:30,245 --> 00:29:34,885
Speaker 3: within it there's like all this, all the human reminders

544
00:29:34,925 --> 00:29:36,365
Speaker 3: of the human toil that.

545
00:29:36,645 --> 00:29:37,205
Speaker 5: Brought him that.

546
00:29:37,365 --> 00:29:42,325
Speaker 3: The hands on the fireplace, the skin room, like, all

547
00:29:42,365 --> 00:29:46,805
Speaker 3: of those things are visual representations of the themes of

548
00:29:47,525 --> 00:29:50,525
Speaker 3: upper crust England being a rotten, horrible place that makes

549
00:29:50,565 --> 00:29:54,245
Speaker 3: people rotten, horrible people. I just think she does it

550
00:29:54,285 --> 00:29:56,205
Speaker 3: instead of through dialogue or through action, she does it

551
00:29:56,245 --> 00:29:59,045
Speaker 3: through the world that she's built. And I find that

552
00:29:59,125 --> 00:30:02,045
Speaker 3: really fascinating. It was really effective for me because the

553
00:30:02,125 --> 00:30:05,205
Speaker 3: two contrasts seem like contrasts, but they're not really contrast

554
00:30:05,245 --> 00:30:07,085
Speaker 3: They're just different forms of rock.

555
00:30:07,445 --> 00:30:10,165
Speaker 1: I'm glad you made that connection, Mariah with the production

556
00:30:10,245 --> 00:30:14,765
Speaker 1: design because the hands from the fireplace, the mantle leading

557
00:30:14,805 --> 00:30:17,605
Speaker 1: all the way up and proceeding onto the ceiling, I

558
00:30:17,605 --> 00:30:20,965
Speaker 1: think is one of the more striking visuals in the film.

559
00:30:21,445 --> 00:30:24,125
Speaker 1: And yeah, the bedroom wall that seems to be made

560
00:30:24,125 --> 00:30:27,405
Speaker 1: of flesh that you know, I was also thinking though

561
00:30:27,885 --> 00:30:30,285
Speaker 1: a lot of this struck me, as you know, nineties

562
00:30:30,325 --> 00:30:34,605
Speaker 1: era Tim Burton production design, which you know I'm partial to,

563
00:30:35,045 --> 00:30:36,285
Speaker 1: but it seemed.

564
00:30:36,005 --> 00:30:36,845
Speaker 4: A little.

565
00:30:38,045 --> 00:30:41,605
Speaker 1: Here, hit or miss or random, like why do part

566
00:30:41,605 --> 00:30:45,525
Speaker 1: of Weathering Heights look like this old ramshackle falling apart

567
00:30:46,085 --> 00:30:48,245
Speaker 1: a state and then other parts look like you know,

568
00:30:48,325 --> 00:30:51,365
Speaker 1: bo Elch put it together for a sleepy hollow And

569
00:30:52,005 --> 00:30:55,285
Speaker 1: there was an inconsistency there to me. But you're you're

570
00:30:55,365 --> 00:31:00,125
Speaker 1: drawing a thread that's allowing me to see some ideas

571
00:31:00,205 --> 00:31:03,485
Speaker 1: behind some of those production design choices. Because this is

572
00:31:03,525 --> 00:31:07,445
Speaker 1: a movie that's throwing its production design in your face,

573
00:31:07,525 --> 00:31:10,285
Speaker 1: it's throwing its costumes in your face. It wants to

574
00:31:10,325 --> 00:31:16,805
Speaker 1: be anachronistic, blazingly, blaringly. So we have the Charlie XCX songs,

575
00:31:17,045 --> 00:31:21,445
Speaker 1: and some of that I found more successful than others.

576
00:31:21,565 --> 00:31:24,885
Speaker 1: I mean, Finelle, if nothing else is she's striking me

577
00:31:24,925 --> 00:31:28,485
Speaker 1: as a very eagerly outrageous direct yeah, which, as I

578
00:31:28,485 --> 00:31:30,405
Speaker 1: said before, is to her credit in some ways, and

579
00:31:30,445 --> 00:31:33,045
Speaker 1: in some ways it's like, Okay, you know you don't

580
00:31:33,165 --> 00:31:35,685
Speaker 1: you don't have to try this hard to get me.

581
00:31:38,605 --> 00:31:39,605
Speaker 4: Well right now, Josh.

582
00:31:39,645 --> 00:31:42,525
Speaker 2: In addition to seeing Wuthering Heights on the big screen,

583
00:31:42,605 --> 00:31:45,605
Speaker 2: if you haven't caught up with it already, you might

584
00:31:46,005 --> 00:31:48,005
Speaker 2: still want to catch up with the new one from

585
00:31:48,165 --> 00:31:52,045
Speaker 2: Sam Raimi, Send Help, starring Dylan O'Brien and Rachel McAdams,

586
00:31:52,165 --> 00:31:56,405
Speaker 2: or opening this weekend on an Imax screen epic the

587
00:31:56,485 --> 00:32:01,205
Speaker 2: seventies Elvis Concert that boz Lherman has assembled in the

588
00:32:01,245 --> 00:32:04,445
Speaker 2: way only boz Lherman, can you know? The film that

589
00:32:04,805 --> 00:32:07,485
Speaker 2: I've heard is really fantastic and that we are doing

590
00:32:07,485 --> 00:32:10,965
Speaker 2: ourselves a disservice by not having seen yet is Pillion,

591
00:32:11,565 --> 00:32:15,845
Speaker 2: the film featuring Alexander Scarsgard. So we're we're gonna mark

592
00:32:15,925 --> 00:32:18,285
Speaker 2: that and put that one away to catch up with

593
00:32:18,325 --> 00:32:20,325
Speaker 2: here at some point. We could see that at a

594
00:32:20,365 --> 00:32:23,765
Speaker 2: Regal cinema, along with Crime one oh one. Chris Hemsworth,

595
00:32:23,845 --> 00:32:27,565
Speaker 2: Mark Ruffalo in that film. Our friends Scott Tobias and

596
00:32:27,645 --> 00:32:30,125
Speaker 2: Keith Phipps at the Reveal just gave that a very

597
00:32:30,165 --> 00:32:34,045
Speaker 2: positive three and a half out of five star review.

598
00:32:34,125 --> 00:32:37,605
Speaker 2: All sorts of options to see right now at Regal cinemas,

599
00:32:37,765 --> 00:32:39,125
Speaker 2: and you might just be able to see some of

600
00:32:39,125 --> 00:32:42,365
Speaker 2: those movies for free with Regal Unlimited, because it's the

601
00:32:42,405 --> 00:32:44,805
Speaker 2: all you can watch movie subscription pass that pays for

602
00:32:44,845 --> 00:32:47,805
Speaker 2: itself in just two visits. Right now, Regal is offering

603
00:32:47,845 --> 00:32:50,765
Speaker 2: our listeners endless movies for less. If you sign up

604
00:32:50,805 --> 00:32:53,205
Speaker 2: for Regal Unlimited and you use the code film Spot

605
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Speaker 2: twenty five film Spot two five, you get ten percent

606
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607
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608
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609
00:33:07,125 --> 00:33:09,805
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610
00:33:09,925 --> 00:33:14,125
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611
00:33:14,325 --> 00:33:17,725
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612
00:33:17,765 --> 00:33:20,045
Speaker 2: app or at the link in the description and use

613
00:33:20,085 --> 00:33:23,205
Speaker 2: that code again, it's film Spot twenty five to get

614
00:33:23,245 --> 00:33:24,085
Speaker 2: your discount.

615
00:33:30,045 --> 00:33:31,885
Speaker 3: I think through all three of her films, you can

616
00:33:31,965 --> 00:33:35,725
Speaker 3: really see that her like root Filmmaker is boz Lherman

617
00:33:36,165 --> 00:33:40,525
Speaker 3: for better or for worse, like she's yeah, that is

618
00:33:40,565 --> 00:33:44,525
Speaker 3: her that is and like his films are are similarly

619
00:33:44,725 --> 00:33:50,765
Speaker 3: like hollow pop quote hollow pop interpretations of in you

620
00:33:50,765 --> 00:33:53,525
Speaker 3: know two cases, Great America or great you know literature,

621
00:33:53,525 --> 00:33:57,165
Speaker 3: Great Gatsby and really and Julia and and does he

622
00:33:57,245 --> 00:34:00,125
Speaker 3: take everything from those things? No? Does he take what

623
00:34:00,165 --> 00:34:03,725
Speaker 3: he thinks is interesting. Yes, are they probably made for teenagers?

624
00:34:03,845 --> 00:34:06,845
Speaker 3: I think so. One of the I don't want to

625
00:34:06,845 --> 00:34:09,245
Speaker 3: call it failing, because all critical discourse is important. But

626
00:34:09,285 --> 00:34:12,125
Speaker 3: one of the things that I think people generally don't

627
00:34:12,165 --> 00:34:15,805
Speaker 3: give her credit for is that she's making these films

628
00:34:15,925 --> 00:34:22,085
Speaker 3: specifically aimed at that sort of teenage pop sensibility. And

629
00:34:22,485 --> 00:34:25,245
Speaker 3: that's not to say that there aren't teenagers who like,

630
00:34:25,885 --> 00:34:28,605
Speaker 3: are into lit theory and are like looking for a

631
00:34:28,645 --> 00:34:30,485
Speaker 3: perfect adaptation with all.

632
00:34:30,365 --> 00:34:31,125
Speaker 5: Of the themes.

633
00:34:31,445 --> 00:34:35,325
Speaker 3: But I would say your average teenager is not or

634
00:34:35,325 --> 00:34:37,685
Speaker 3: they're not there yet, or they're on their way there,

635
00:34:37,725 --> 00:34:40,245
Speaker 3: and maybe this leads them. They're like, I don't know

636
00:34:40,245 --> 00:34:42,565
Speaker 3: how many people in nineteen ninety six went to see

637
00:34:42,645 --> 00:34:45,725
Speaker 3: Romeo and Juliet because they read it in ninth grade,

638
00:34:45,965 --> 00:34:47,805
Speaker 3: you know English. They went because they wanted to see

639
00:34:47,845 --> 00:34:50,685
Speaker 3: Leo looking hot, you know what I mean, and he

640
00:34:50,805 --> 00:34:55,725
Speaker 3: nailed it right. So but maybe they watched it and went, huh,

641
00:34:55,805 --> 00:34:59,645
Speaker 3: I should read this and it added something. I don't know.

642
00:35:00,045 --> 00:35:02,444
Speaker 1: So here's the question though about her movies. Like we've

643
00:35:02,485 --> 00:35:05,045
Speaker 1: talked about you read Weathering Heights as a teenager, you're

644
00:35:05,085 --> 00:35:07,765
Speaker 1: confused but kind of excited by it. Yeah, you read

645
00:35:07,765 --> 00:35:09,925
Speaker 1: it in your twenties or thirties and you're like, oh,

646
00:35:10,005 --> 00:35:14,165
Speaker 1: this is way weirder, And I ever thought, are we

647
00:35:14,285 --> 00:35:17,805
Speaker 1: going to Are the teenagers who are watching this film

648
00:35:17,845 --> 00:35:23,085
Speaker 1: now going to revisit it? That's a question fifteen years

649
00:35:23,205 --> 00:35:25,245
Speaker 1: or or will they at that point where it's will

650
00:35:25,285 --> 00:35:26,605
Speaker 1: it seemed kind of thin to them?

651
00:35:26,805 --> 00:35:30,444
Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess the question here really is and it's

652
00:35:30,485 --> 00:35:33,364
Speaker 3: the same question you could give to Frankenstein, right, is

653
00:35:33,805 --> 00:35:39,605
Speaker 3: are people reading in general? Because you know, especially in

654
00:35:39,605 --> 00:35:44,485
Speaker 3: the United States, literacy rates are so low. You basically

655
00:35:44,525 --> 00:35:46,405
Speaker 3: read what you're forced to read in high school and

656
00:35:46,445 --> 00:35:49,125
Speaker 3: if you're not a major in college, most American adults

657
00:35:49,165 --> 00:35:55,685
Speaker 3: read maybe one book a year. So the question is

658
00:35:55,685 --> 00:35:58,844
Speaker 3: is kind of almost a moot point in that no

659
00:35:58,845 --> 00:36:01,485
Speaker 3: one's reading anything, Like, they're not reading the people we

660
00:36:01,525 --> 00:36:04,205
Speaker 3: meet on vacation either, you know, just because they watch

661
00:36:04,285 --> 00:36:04,765
Speaker 3: that movie.

662
00:36:05,045 --> 00:36:07,645
Speaker 5: So I guess it's like a layer of.

663
00:36:08,845 --> 00:36:13,445
Speaker 3: Could it maybe more likely this will get people to

664
00:36:13,485 --> 00:36:15,805
Speaker 3: read Wuthering Heights than if they didn't see the movie

665
00:36:16,205 --> 00:36:18,844
Speaker 3: because they're not reading it regardless, that's fair.

666
00:36:18,925 --> 00:36:21,485
Speaker 5: It's not the best logic. No, it's kind of a bleak,

667
00:36:21,685 --> 00:36:24,885
Speaker 5: but it's a question about the audience.

668
00:36:24,925 --> 00:36:27,924
Speaker 4: Maybe maybe this will go there a little bit.

669
00:36:28,005 --> 00:36:30,325
Speaker 2: And and Josh back to you as well on I mean,

670
00:36:30,365 --> 00:36:34,565
Speaker 2: I want to say the production design, the boldness of

671
00:36:34,605 --> 00:36:37,165
Speaker 2: some of those choices, that's the reason to see the movie.

672
00:36:37,165 --> 00:36:40,925
Speaker 2: And I for the most part went with the musical elements,

673
00:36:41,005 --> 00:36:45,085
Speaker 2: the score and the song choices I liked. I liked

674
00:36:45,125 --> 00:36:48,805
Speaker 2: the needle drops that we get here. But the the moment,

675
00:36:48,925 --> 00:36:55,445
Speaker 2: for example, when Kathy goes to find Heathcliff when he's

676
00:36:55,525 --> 00:36:59,205
Speaker 2: returned and she knows he's at Wuthering Heights and she's

677
00:36:59,245 --> 00:37:01,645
Speaker 2: looking for him and it's too foggy to find him,

678
00:37:02,045 --> 00:37:03,925
Speaker 2: and then she she turns away.

679
00:37:04,245 --> 00:37:07,045
Speaker 4: The swing so the camera the camera's.

680
00:37:06,565 --> 00:37:08,725
Speaker 5: Looking over her shoulder shot and.

681
00:37:08,605 --> 00:37:11,924
Speaker 2: He emerges out of the fog. You know that that's

682
00:37:12,045 --> 00:37:15,045
Speaker 2: that's an incredible moment. You know, credit to Emerald Fanel

683
00:37:15,125 --> 00:37:18,165
Speaker 2: and to Lina Sangrin the cinematographer, for giving us a

684
00:37:18,165 --> 00:37:21,645
Speaker 2: shot like that. And and you mentioned the the walls

685
00:37:21,925 --> 00:37:25,325
Speaker 2: that that she is she is put in a room

686
00:37:25,845 --> 00:37:29,125
Speaker 2: where if you just think about the ingenuity of that,

687
00:37:29,445 --> 00:37:31,685
Speaker 2: she's put in a room where the wall, the design

688
00:37:31,725 --> 00:37:34,885
Speaker 2: of the walls are the color of her skin down

689
00:37:34,925 --> 00:37:37,805
Speaker 2: to the moles, the freckles or whatever, so that it's

690
00:37:37,925 --> 00:37:42,165
Speaker 2: it's it's as if she truly blends in with her surroundings,

691
00:37:42,565 --> 00:37:46,045
Speaker 2: removing all sense of her identity completely, and and and

692
00:37:46,125 --> 00:37:48,885
Speaker 2: so that then we get a moment where we actually

693
00:37:48,965 --> 00:37:52,045
Speaker 2: have those shots near the end with with leeches, and

694
00:37:52,125 --> 00:37:54,565
Speaker 2: they're they're not only on her body, but on on

695
00:37:54,685 --> 00:38:00,125
Speaker 2: her body on the wall. That is some beautiful and troubling,

696
00:38:00,565 --> 00:38:03,805
Speaker 2: you know, imagery. And that's that's something I really respect

697
00:38:03,925 --> 00:38:06,085
Speaker 2: that this movie gives us. And you were mentioning too,

698
00:38:06,525 --> 00:38:11,125
Speaker 2: the lack of consistency, which I like in terms of

699
00:38:11,125 --> 00:38:14,245
Speaker 2: some of the visual choices. You're right, we'll get we'll

700
00:38:14,285 --> 00:38:16,965
Speaker 2: get moments that feel like they're completely out of a

701
00:38:17,525 --> 00:38:20,965
Speaker 2: of a Tim Burton movie. Sometimes the more fantastical ones

702
00:38:21,285 --> 00:38:23,765
Speaker 2: where all of a sudden, we've got that bright red,

703
00:38:23,845 --> 00:38:28,525
Speaker 2: demonic red background where there's nothing about veris similitude right,

704
00:38:28,685 --> 00:38:31,085
Speaker 2: It's it could be taken out of a graphic novel

705
00:38:31,125 --> 00:38:33,205
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, and it's reflecting more of a

706
00:38:33,565 --> 00:38:36,325
Speaker 2: of a psychological reality than any kind.

707
00:38:36,205 --> 00:38:40,725
Speaker 3: Of accational thinking about the scene where the sky is red.

708
00:38:40,965 --> 00:38:41,725
Speaker 4: The sky's red.

709
00:38:41,885 --> 00:38:44,885
Speaker 3: Those Yeah, so I think, and now I don't. I

710
00:38:44,925 --> 00:38:47,645
Speaker 3: don't know her relationship to this movie, but I think

711
00:38:47,725 --> 00:38:51,005
Speaker 3: that's an homage to when Rhet shows up and Gone

712
00:38:51,005 --> 00:38:53,765
Speaker 3: with the Wind. It's almost exactly the same Red. He's

713
00:38:53,765 --> 00:38:56,725
Speaker 3: on a horse, he saves her, right, And I have

714
00:38:56,845 --> 00:38:59,125
Speaker 3: the exact same relationships to Gone with the Wind that

715
00:38:59,205 --> 00:39:01,325
Speaker 3: I have to Withering Heights. I watched God with the

716
00:39:01,365 --> 00:39:03,845
Speaker 3: Wind when I was six. Did I know anything about

717
00:39:04,045 --> 00:39:05,364
Speaker 3: slavery at that point in my life?

718
00:39:05,405 --> 00:39:05,485
Speaker 2: No?

719
00:39:05,565 --> 00:39:05,965
Speaker 3: I did not.

720
00:39:06,205 --> 00:39:07,125
Speaker 5: Did I know that this.

721
00:39:07,045 --> 00:39:10,404
Speaker 3: Movie was this book and this movie we're romanticizing Anti

722
00:39:10,445 --> 00:39:12,645
Speaker 3: Elleen South in a way that's actually kind of disturbing.

723
00:39:12,725 --> 00:39:13,325
Speaker 5: No I did not.

724
00:39:13,725 --> 00:39:17,405
Speaker 3: Did I know that Rhet Butler, you know, forcing Scarlett

725
00:39:17,485 --> 00:39:19,605
Speaker 3: to sleep with him was actually spousal rate?

726
00:39:19,885 --> 00:39:20,445
Speaker 5: No I did not.

727
00:39:20,565 --> 00:39:23,205
Speaker 3: Did I find Red Butler incredibly hot and want to

728
00:39:23,285 --> 00:39:24,884
Speaker 3: like think about him?

729
00:39:25,205 --> 00:39:25,525
Speaker 5: Yes?

730
00:39:25,645 --> 00:39:27,485
Speaker 3: And was he in my head when I was reading

731
00:39:27,485 --> 00:39:29,965
Speaker 3: the Byronic novels and the Bronte things and thinking the

732
00:39:29,965 --> 00:39:33,045
Speaker 3: exact same thing. Yes, And so part of me wonders

733
00:39:33,365 --> 00:39:37,885
Speaker 3: if she's evoking some of these imageries specifically to remind

734
00:39:37,965 --> 00:39:41,765
Speaker 3: us that when we're young, we're stupid, and we romanticize abuse.

735
00:39:42,285 --> 00:39:45,045
Speaker 3: I don't actually think she's trying to romanticize abuse. I

736
00:39:45,045 --> 00:39:49,005
Speaker 3: think she's trying to remind us that abuse can see romantic, especially.

737
00:39:48,685 --> 00:39:50,725
Speaker 5: When we're young. I don't know if that lands.

738
00:39:50,805 --> 00:40:01,045
Speaker 3: I don't know if that's an.

739
00:39:56,685 --> 00:39:59,125
Speaker 2: Homage like that could be absolutely what she's going for.

740
00:39:59,485 --> 00:40:02,965
Speaker 2: That is also a striking color that is employed quite

741
00:40:03,005 --> 00:40:06,525
Speaker 2: a bit throughout the film in many scenes. But here's

742
00:40:06,565 --> 00:40:07,965
Speaker 2: where I am at least going to go, and I'm

743
00:40:07,965 --> 00:40:09,885
Speaker 2: going to go there partly because it gets back to

744
00:40:09,885 --> 00:40:14,485
Speaker 2: what you're saying, specifically about audiences and being a certain

745
00:40:14,525 --> 00:40:18,485
Speaker 2: age when you're considering this material. If that's the endeavor here,

746
00:40:18,565 --> 00:40:22,285
Speaker 2: if that's the project, okay, yeah, And there's nothing more

747
00:40:22,325 --> 00:40:25,445
Speaker 2: subjective than what I'm about to articulate. But then again,

748
00:40:25,685 --> 00:40:29,085
Speaker 2: everything we're doing here is subjective. Okay, Josh, this whole

749
00:40:29,285 --> 00:40:34,525
Speaker 2: If this whole project is about trying to heighten how

750
00:40:34,645 --> 00:40:37,205
Speaker 2: romantic it is, then my question is, why isn't it

751
00:40:37,245 --> 00:40:43,525
Speaker 2: more romantic? I think this is a profoundly unsexy movie,

752
00:40:43,845 --> 00:40:46,605
Speaker 2: and I think it wants to be. It wants it

753
00:40:46,645 --> 00:40:50,285
Speaker 2: seems to want to push buttons. It wants to be transgressive,

754
00:40:50,605 --> 00:40:54,285
Speaker 2: it wants to be deviantly sexy at times, and and

755
00:40:54,725 --> 00:40:57,045
Speaker 2: I just the whole time I was worrying, how can

756
00:40:57,085 --> 00:41:00,605
Speaker 2: a movie that that seems to want so badly to

757
00:41:00,645 --> 00:41:05,045
Speaker 2: titillate and and to arouse be as tame as this

758
00:41:05,205 --> 00:41:08,605
Speaker 2: movie is. I don't think there's heat between Kathy and

759
00:41:08,645 --> 00:41:14,125
Speaker 2: Heathcliff those glances when he's working in the stable before

760
00:41:14,165 --> 00:41:18,005
Speaker 2: they become lovers. I don't think that when they become lovers. Now,

761
00:41:18,005 --> 00:41:20,005
Speaker 2: there's one moment, I'll give you the one moment that's

762
00:41:20,165 --> 00:41:24,125
Speaker 2: genuinely hot in this film, But when they become lovers,

763
00:41:24,765 --> 00:41:29,405
Speaker 2: the most vanilla love scenes you could imagine, I would argue,

764
00:41:29,965 --> 00:41:33,325
Speaker 2: And the scene that I would say has to do

765
00:41:33,365 --> 00:41:36,484
Speaker 2: the most heavy lifting on this front, or maybe I'll

766
00:41:36,485 --> 00:41:41,605
Speaker 2: say harness the most, especially because it comes so early

767
00:41:41,645 --> 00:41:45,404
Speaker 2: in the film and it should tell us something about her.

768
00:41:45,725 --> 00:41:49,685
Speaker 2: Kathy's sexual awakening as a character is the scene where

769
00:41:49,725 --> 00:41:53,885
Speaker 2: she is acting as a voyeur, where she is watching

770
00:41:53,965 --> 00:41:58,045
Speaker 2: and listening to two characters in the barn, engaging in

771
00:41:58,325 --> 00:42:01,965
Speaker 2: as you said in S and M. But in this moment,

772
00:42:02,005 --> 00:42:05,565
Speaker 2: it's not just her watching or listening. She's also got

773
00:42:05,925 --> 00:42:12,805
Speaker 2: Heathcliff on top of her from behind, holding her mouth shut.

774
00:42:13,605 --> 00:42:18,565
Speaker 2: And there are so many layers to this that I

775
00:42:18,605 --> 00:42:22,285
Speaker 2: think could feel to a view or could make you

776
00:42:22,365 --> 00:42:26,125
Speaker 2: feel uncomfortable in the best way, uncomfortable in the way

777
00:42:26,165 --> 00:42:28,645
Speaker 2: you want to feel. Uncomfortable as a viewer in the

778
00:42:28,645 --> 00:42:35,085
Speaker 2: theater in this moment, tantalizing, teasing, taunting, everything, everything Kathy

779
00:42:35,445 --> 00:42:40,445
Speaker 2: is feeling in that moment. And I can remember exactly

780
00:42:40,525 --> 00:42:42,565
Speaker 2: how that scene is shot and edited in my mind,

781
00:42:42,605 --> 00:42:46,645
Speaker 2: and it seems so everything the opposite of what I

782
00:42:46,765 --> 00:42:52,085
Speaker 2: just described. And maybe maybe Mariah, maybe your explanation is

783
00:42:52,125 --> 00:42:54,045
Speaker 2: the best one, which is that even though this is

784
00:42:54,085 --> 00:42:58,125
Speaker 2: an R rated movie, not a PG thirteen movie, which

785
00:42:58,125 --> 00:43:02,245
Speaker 2: would better explain it to me, Maybe maybe this is

786
00:43:02,765 --> 00:43:04,364
Speaker 2: this is entry level.

787
00:43:04,205 --> 00:43:08,005
Speaker 3: S and M So okay, my count I have two counters.

788
00:43:08,165 --> 00:43:11,365
Speaker 3: Counter one. I think that you could interpret that scene

789
00:43:11,565 --> 00:43:13,285
Speaker 3: as what it's like to read a book when you're

790
00:43:13,325 --> 00:43:18,165
Speaker 3: thirteen and you are viewing sex and sexuality through through

791
00:43:18,205 --> 00:43:21,685
Speaker 3: a lens and through a very small keyhole, and you

792
00:43:21,805 --> 00:43:24,285
Speaker 3: still don't understand it, which is kind of how Kathy

793
00:43:24,645 --> 00:43:28,405
Speaker 3: is learning about sex herself. Right. So then if you

794
00:43:28,445 --> 00:43:31,085
Speaker 3: follow that through and you could choose to interpret it

795
00:43:31,085 --> 00:43:33,925
Speaker 3: this way, you don't have to then the sex scenes

796
00:43:34,005 --> 00:43:37,885
Speaker 3: aren't all that sexy because it's again what you picture

797
00:43:37,885 --> 00:43:41,205
Speaker 3: at thirteen. Like what I pictured sex well was when

798
00:43:41,205 --> 00:43:42,685
Speaker 3: I was thirteen, and what it turned out to be

799
00:43:43,725 --> 00:43:50,605
Speaker 3: did not align at all. But Clough pures like those

800
00:43:50,885 --> 00:43:54,364
Speaker 3: those imageries of like being in a carriage, being in

801
00:43:54,365 --> 00:43:56,565
Speaker 3: the grass, like that's that's what you picture when you're

802
00:43:56,605 --> 00:43:58,484
Speaker 3: thirteen and you've read nothing but like.

803
00:43:58,565 --> 00:44:01,605
Speaker 5: Hawthorn and that's true and sucked it.

804
00:44:01,885 --> 00:44:04,205
Speaker 3: And you don't actually like I you know, I'm from

805
00:44:04,205 --> 00:44:07,485
Speaker 3: the generation where if I wanted to watch porn, I

806
00:44:07,485 --> 00:44:10,125
Speaker 3: would have to like find a VHS of it right

807
00:44:10,565 --> 00:44:12,165
Speaker 3: this younger generation. So I don't know if it works

808
00:44:12,165 --> 00:44:14,364
Speaker 3: with the younger generation because they've had access to like

809
00:44:14,645 --> 00:44:16,725
Speaker 3: porn and quote what sex looks like a lot more

810
00:44:16,765 --> 00:44:19,884
Speaker 3: than millennials did. But I do think that she makes

811
00:44:19,925 --> 00:44:21,685
Speaker 3: films from a millennial perspective.

812
00:44:21,885 --> 00:44:24,645
Speaker 2: Okay, And yeah, I do just want to clarify when

813
00:44:24,685 --> 00:44:27,685
Speaker 2: I say sexy, I mean more in this case what

814
00:44:27,725 --> 00:44:32,125
Speaker 2: I was saying about being uncomfortable when you're that age,

815
00:44:32,445 --> 00:44:34,405
Speaker 2: when you take in things that you're not ready to

816
00:44:34,445 --> 00:44:37,685
Speaker 2: take in, Yeah, it makes it makes you feel naughty

817
00:44:37,765 --> 00:44:41,725
Speaker 2: and that naughtiness, right, can feel makes you feel different things,

818
00:44:41,925 --> 00:44:46,605
Speaker 2: all right, and and that that sometimes converge on sexiness,

819
00:44:46,725 --> 00:44:48,485
Speaker 2: even though it's not what we would think of now

820
00:44:48,525 --> 00:44:49,845
Speaker 2: as perhaps sexy.

821
00:44:49,925 --> 00:44:51,605
Speaker 3: The other counter I want us to make is, I

822
00:44:51,685 --> 00:44:54,565
Speaker 3: do think and perhaps this is a short girl thing.

823
00:44:54,845 --> 00:44:57,364
Speaker 3: Eryl Fanella is also short. I'm putting this out there,

824
00:44:57,925 --> 00:45:01,925
Speaker 3: this scene where you know, she gets she's thinking about it,

825
00:45:01,925 --> 00:45:03,285
Speaker 3: and she's watched with the dough and then she goes

826
00:45:03,325 --> 00:45:05,565
Speaker 3: and she masturbates, and then he follows her and then

827
00:45:05,845 --> 00:45:06,765
Speaker 3: he stands.

828
00:45:07,245 --> 00:45:08,645
Speaker 5: His head is over her head.

829
00:45:09,525 --> 00:45:12,125
Speaker 3: It's the best use of Drake jag Oulery's height as

830
00:45:12,125 --> 00:45:15,405
Speaker 3: an erotic image that I've ever seen, one of the

831
00:45:15,405 --> 00:45:18,325
Speaker 3: best uses of a man's height as an erotic image

832
00:45:18,365 --> 00:45:21,605
Speaker 3: that I've ever seen. And then he like picks her

833
00:45:21,685 --> 00:45:23,525
Speaker 3: up by your courses at the moment I don't think

834
00:45:23,525 --> 00:45:23,925
Speaker 3: you could do.

835
00:45:24,205 --> 00:45:27,165
Speaker 2: Yeah, that he didn't pick her up with one hand

836
00:45:27,325 --> 00:45:31,325
Speaker 2: by the waist, wit is like is incredible.

837
00:45:30,925 --> 00:45:35,525
Speaker 3: So incredible, and it's and it really uses like it

838
00:45:35,605 --> 00:45:38,805
Speaker 3: uses his height as as like the tall, dark, handsome

839
00:45:38,925 --> 00:45:42,085
Speaker 3: exactly whatever one pictures. But I think specifically what short

840
00:45:42,085 --> 00:45:43,165
Speaker 3: girls tend to picture.

841
00:45:44,085 --> 00:45:46,565
Speaker 1: Are you guys telling me, are you guys telling me

842
00:45:46,645 --> 00:45:49,365
Speaker 1: Jacob Alordi is tall? I didn't get that sense at

843
00:45:49,405 --> 00:45:53,805
Speaker 1: all from this movie. That's fascinating. So I can offer

844
00:45:54,045 --> 00:45:55,365
Speaker 1: to this is a sexy or not?

845
00:45:56,005 --> 00:45:59,005
Speaker 3: You're joking, but I think, I truly think she likes

846
00:45:59,245 --> 00:46:02,805
Speaker 3: filming with him because she's a short girl and two

847
00:46:02,845 --> 00:46:05,765
Speaker 3: short girls. There's nothing sexier than a six foot four

848
00:46:05,805 --> 00:46:07,285
Speaker 3: guy a short girl's segment.

849
00:46:08,085 --> 00:46:09,965
Speaker 1: I will, I will take your word for it.

850
00:46:09,965 --> 00:46:10,605
Speaker 5: It really right.

851
00:46:10,725 --> 00:46:12,685
Speaker 1: I'm not going to debate you on that. I can

852
00:46:12,965 --> 00:46:16,885
Speaker 1: offer some some research from my theater viewing to the

853
00:46:16,925 --> 00:46:20,685
Speaker 1: sexy question, and it's another scene involving alority. All I

854
00:46:20,725 --> 00:46:23,884
Speaker 1: can tell tell you is small theater we were at.

855
00:46:24,045 --> 00:46:26,565
Speaker 1: I think it only has like maybe sixty maybe seventy

856
00:46:26,605 --> 00:46:30,925
Speaker 1: five seats. I think I was one of before the

857
00:46:31,005 --> 00:46:33,364
Speaker 1: lights went down, maybe five men.

858
00:46:34,045 --> 00:46:34,365
Speaker 5: Wow.

859
00:46:35,005 --> 00:46:41,085
Speaker 1: The scene with Isabella and Heathcliff where he's I guess

860
00:46:41,125 --> 00:46:44,965
Speaker 1: proposing and he repeats, do you want me to stop?

861
00:46:46,045 --> 00:46:49,125
Speaker 1: I don't know if I've been in a quieter theater. Yeah,

862
00:46:49,205 --> 00:46:53,645
Speaker 1: after a hushed intake of breath in quite a long time.

863
00:46:53,765 --> 00:46:57,165
Speaker 1: So just throwing that into our you know, how sexy

864
00:46:57,205 --> 00:46:58,925
Speaker 1: is this movie? Evidence?

865
00:46:59,445 --> 00:47:02,725
Speaker 4: Not involving Kathy in Heathcliffs.

866
00:47:02,325 --> 00:47:04,045
Speaker 3: Notably fascinating scene because.

867
00:47:03,845 --> 00:47:07,965
Speaker 1: I think to Mariah's point about, you know, your experience

868
00:47:08,045 --> 00:47:13,125
Speaker 1: of this, this whole story, which is heated and confusing

869
00:47:13,765 --> 00:47:16,765
Speaker 1: and not right in many ways. I mean, you know,

870
00:47:16,805 --> 00:47:19,125
Speaker 1: one of the more disturbing things is the way it

871
00:47:19,205 --> 00:47:24,885
Speaker 1: does make second ruality violent and violent sexual and and

872
00:47:24,925 --> 00:47:26,765
Speaker 1: this isn't the first time.

873
00:47:26,565 --> 00:47:27,805
Speaker 4: Of done this.

874
00:47:28,165 --> 00:47:32,845
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so so that's definitely our play here as well.

875
00:47:33,045 --> 00:47:37,205
Speaker 3: And and that scene, I think what's so unnerving, especially

876
00:47:37,205 --> 00:47:41,085
Speaker 3: for modern audiences about that scene is he's technically asking

877
00:47:41,125 --> 00:47:44,845
Speaker 3: for her consent, right, and we're not one hundred Instead

878
00:47:44,845 --> 00:47:47,445
Speaker 3: of being a rapist or whatever he is, right, he

879
00:47:47,605 --> 00:47:51,045
Speaker 3: is like over and over asking for her consent, and

880
00:47:51,085 --> 00:47:53,805
Speaker 3: it's still it's not one hundred percent clear. I think

881
00:47:54,125 --> 00:47:58,525
Speaker 3: Finelle and Oliver make it leave room for ambiguity as

882
00:47:58,565 --> 00:48:02,885
Speaker 3: to whether she really is consenting or if she's just

883
00:48:03,005 --> 00:48:06,005
Speaker 3: like ah sure, you know. Like because his height is

884
00:48:06,125 --> 00:48:08,525
Speaker 3: again that's where his height is then subverted, because it's

885
00:48:08,925 --> 00:48:10,445
Speaker 3: no longer sexy and now a.

886
00:48:10,405 --> 00:48:13,884
Speaker 5: Little bit threatening. That's interesting, I think.

887
00:48:14,005 --> 00:48:16,404
Speaker 1: I mean it goes back to my theory. I think

888
00:48:16,405 --> 00:48:19,805
Speaker 1: that Isabella wrote and Heathcliff relationship is more evocative of

889
00:48:19,845 --> 00:48:22,965
Speaker 1: what the book is about out Yeah, and the Catherine Heathcliff.

890
00:48:23,565 --> 00:48:25,605
Speaker 3: I also I liked that you said that because one

891
00:48:25,605 --> 00:48:28,685
Speaker 3: of the threads that the film kind of drops, because

892
00:48:28,765 --> 00:48:30,964
Speaker 3: almost every film drops the second half of the book

893
00:48:31,405 --> 00:48:33,405
Speaker 3: is sort of the inherited.

894
00:48:35,285 --> 00:48:38,045
Speaker 5: Trauma, right, but what as a whole generation?

895
00:48:38,365 --> 00:48:41,085
Speaker 3: Yeah, where I think she brings that in, she folds

896
00:48:41,125 --> 00:48:43,565
Speaker 3: it in just a little. Here is the way that

897
00:48:43,605 --> 00:48:48,245
Speaker 3: she presents their childhoods where Heathcliff is presented to Kathy

898
00:48:48,365 --> 00:48:52,964
Speaker 3: as a pet, right and Isabella in the book she's

899
00:48:53,045 --> 00:48:57,725
Speaker 3: his sister, but here she's Edgar's ward and in a

900
00:48:57,925 --> 00:49:02,845
Speaker 3: sense she is kept as a pet who or you know, pampered,

901
00:49:02,885 --> 00:49:06,485
Speaker 3: and then has presented Kathy as her own sort of pet.

902
00:49:06,565 --> 00:49:10,005
Speaker 3: She's as a doll really because she's dressing her. She's

903
00:49:10,285 --> 00:49:16,165
Speaker 3: So it's not quite the same compounded generational rot that

904
00:49:16,245 --> 00:49:18,685
Speaker 3: the novel does, But I do think that's a reflection

905
00:49:19,405 --> 00:49:24,045
Speaker 3: of those themes it in folded into the first half.

906
00:49:24,085 --> 00:49:26,605
Speaker 3: I think she's I think Vanella is absolutely trying to

907
00:49:26,605 --> 00:49:28,884
Speaker 3: get as much of that second half in there as

908
00:49:28,925 --> 00:49:31,805
Speaker 3: she can while still ending it. It was the clemactic

909
00:49:31,845 --> 00:49:33,805
Speaker 3: scene that almost every movie ends with.

910
00:49:34,205 --> 00:49:36,805
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think it's a reflection of possibly what

911
00:49:36,885 --> 00:49:39,005
Speaker 2: Emerald Fanell was going for with this film. That we

912
00:49:39,045 --> 00:49:40,884
Speaker 2: have a range of reactions to this movie.

913
00:49:40,965 --> 00:49:43,805
Speaker 4: Yeah, here channel, I do.

914
00:49:43,845 --> 00:49:45,885
Speaker 3: Think, I do think. I can't remember which one.

915
00:49:45,925 --> 00:49:46,045
Speaker 2: Did.

916
00:49:46,085 --> 00:49:48,525
Speaker 3: You said it that she's an interesting filmmaker. Is that

917
00:49:48,565 --> 00:49:49,765
Speaker 3: what you said, Josh you?

918
00:49:50,005 --> 00:49:53,445
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I mean I haven't been like, I haven't

919
00:49:53,445 --> 00:49:56,725
Speaker 1: been bowled over by anything she's done, but I'm continually intrigued.

920
00:49:57,045 --> 00:50:00,485
Speaker 3: I yeah, I think her strongest suit is that she

921
00:50:00,605 --> 00:50:03,125
Speaker 3: throws everything, all her ideas, she just throws them all

922
00:50:03,165 --> 00:50:05,844
Speaker 3: out there. Doesn't all work. I don't know, but I

923
00:50:05,845 --> 00:50:09,925
Speaker 3: think there's value in a filmmaker who one is getting

924
00:50:09,965 --> 00:50:13,165
Speaker 3: people to see her films, like Sulburn Normy. As we're

925
00:50:13,165 --> 00:50:16,645
Speaker 3: talking about Selburn, I remember I went to a film festival. Oh,

926
00:50:16,645 --> 00:50:19,165
Speaker 3: it was Refocused. I was at Refocus. When I came

927
00:50:19,205 --> 00:50:21,005
Speaker 3: out and I was shopping at one of the little

928
00:50:21,085 --> 00:50:24,285
Speaker 3: shops and someone asked why I was in town. I

929
00:50:24,285 --> 00:50:26,565
Speaker 3: said I was here at the festival and they were like, oh,

930
00:50:26,605 --> 00:50:28,125
Speaker 3: you know, I saw a movie every really liked. And

931
00:50:28,125 --> 00:50:30,285
Speaker 3: I don't really watch many movies and it was Saltburn,

932
00:50:30,565 --> 00:50:32,645
Speaker 3: and that was not the movie I was expecting this

933
00:50:32,685 --> 00:50:36,325
Speaker 3: person to mention. So, you know, I think there's some

934
00:50:36,405 --> 00:50:38,645
Speaker 3: things to be said for a filmmaker who one gets

935
00:50:38,685 --> 00:50:42,125
Speaker 3: people to just actually discuss film instead of come and go,

936
00:50:42,525 --> 00:50:46,445
Speaker 3: and two gets average people a little excited. There's I

937
00:50:46,445 --> 00:50:49,005
Speaker 3: think there's value in that, especially in the ecosystem where

938
00:50:49,165 --> 00:50:51,565
Speaker 3: films are treated like commodities and not like art.

939
00:50:51,605 --> 00:50:53,125
Speaker 5: That's worth discussing.

940
00:50:53,845 --> 00:50:57,325
Speaker 2: Wuthering Heights is currently out in wide release. People are

941
00:50:57,325 --> 00:50:59,645
Speaker 2: seeing it, people are discussing it. If you see it

942
00:50:59,685 --> 00:51:02,205
Speaker 2: and would like to discuss it with us, agreed, disagree

943
00:51:02,245 --> 00:51:03,765
Speaker 2: with any of our takes, we would love to hear

944
00:51:03,805 --> 00:51:07,765
Speaker 2: from you feedback film spotting dot net. We thank Mariah

945
00:51:07,805 --> 00:51:10,885
Speaker 2: for her candor for her insights always.

946
00:51:11,045 --> 00:51:12,245
Speaker 4: It was fun as always.

947
00:51:12,565 --> 00:51:13,645
Speaker 5: Thanks for having me.

948
00:51:18,645 --> 00:51:21,685
Speaker 1: Outam Our film Spotting family members are the ones who

949
00:51:21,845 --> 00:51:24,925
Speaker 1: keep this show going, so we want to give thanks

950
00:51:24,965 --> 00:51:27,925
Speaker 1: to a couple of them here really quickly. Thank you

951
00:51:27,965 --> 00:51:32,965
Speaker 1: to family plus member Ryan Sailor from Bakersfield, California and

952
00:51:33,085 --> 00:51:37,285
Speaker 1: family member Ava Isabelle in Puerto Rico for supporting the show.

953
00:51:37,365 --> 00:51:39,965
Speaker 1: Ryan shared this with us. I've listened for a number

954
00:51:40,005 --> 00:51:41,925
Speaker 1: of years now. At the time, I was looking for

955
00:51:41,965 --> 00:51:44,685
Speaker 1: a film podcast and someone on Reddit said you guys

956
00:51:44,685 --> 00:51:47,125
Speaker 1: were the best, so I tuned in for an end

957
00:51:47,205 --> 00:51:50,645
Speaker 1: of the year episode and the rest is history. We

958
00:51:50,725 --> 00:51:53,285
Speaker 1: also heard this from Ava been listening to you guys

959
00:51:53,285 --> 00:51:58,365
Speaker 1: for about ten years. Started during the Boyhood Versus Birdman

960
00:51:58,605 --> 00:52:02,485
Speaker 1: award battle. So is that back when we were pairing

961
00:52:02,925 --> 00:52:05,525
Speaker 1: Oscar nominees against each other, Adam, I think she.

962
00:52:05,645 --> 00:52:08,845
Speaker 2: Just means more in the larger discourse. I don't know

963
00:52:08,885 --> 00:52:11,405
Speaker 2: that we really battled about it though. You I think

964
00:52:11,485 --> 00:52:14,525
Speaker 2: you were more pro Birdman than Boyhood.

965
00:52:15,525 --> 00:52:16,805
Speaker 4: I nice.

966
00:52:16,925 --> 00:52:21,245
Speaker 1: Actually, that's why I was curious. I'm pro bo to

967
00:52:21,285 --> 00:52:24,765
Speaker 1: be sure. But well, I think I've rated Boyhood higher.

968
00:52:24,925 --> 00:52:28,125
Speaker 2: So okay, I think Birdman brought a knife to that gunfight.

969
00:52:28,245 --> 00:52:31,525
Speaker 2: But we will move on. Ava's favorite show segment, the

970
00:52:31,565 --> 00:52:34,525
Speaker 2: top five. How about this? Sam must be so happy.

971
00:52:34,885 --> 00:52:38,045
Speaker 2: The top five back to back movies. We did Josh

972
00:52:38,165 --> 00:52:43,005
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, episode five fifty nine. So best director back

973
00:52:43,045 --> 00:52:48,725
Speaker 2: to back movies? Coppola, Nolan Spielberg, Ridley, Scott Tarantino. No,

974
00:52:48,765 --> 00:52:51,405
Speaker 2: I can't think of any off the top of my

975
00:52:51,445 --> 00:52:54,325
Speaker 2: head that would have made that list, but yeah, that's

976
00:52:54,365 --> 00:52:56,845
Speaker 2: what we were doing. Just any two movies back to

977
00:52:56,885 --> 00:52:58,525
Speaker 2: back from any filmmaker.

978
00:52:58,685 --> 00:53:01,404
Speaker 1: Any two back to back. So so is Sam's note

979
00:53:01,405 --> 00:53:05,605
Speaker 1: here asking us would we add anyone? Oh gosh no,

980
00:53:05,805 --> 00:53:08,365
Speaker 1: I think I mean, it's got to be Gerweig right

981
00:53:08,445 --> 00:53:09,565
Speaker 1: in terms of back to back.

982
00:53:10,005 --> 00:53:12,965
Speaker 4: Okay, thank you, you're right. Thank you for actually doing the.

983
00:53:12,925 --> 00:53:17,365
Speaker 2: Thinking Ladybird, Ladybird, then Little Women, that's that's my number one.

984
00:53:17,245 --> 00:53:19,965
Speaker 1: And then Barbie for me. I mean it's it's like, yeah,

985
00:53:20,005 --> 00:53:22,165
Speaker 1: so not bad at all.

986
00:53:22,325 --> 00:53:26,285
Speaker 2: Okay, not bad, You're right, Ryan says, the anniversary revisit

987
00:53:26,285 --> 00:53:29,005
Speaker 2: of Taxi Driver somehow gave me even more to appreciate

988
00:53:29,285 --> 00:53:32,205
Speaker 2: about one of the greatest and most prescient films ever made.

989
00:53:32,245 --> 00:53:35,205
Speaker 2: So Ryan's thinking of the seven from seventy six review

990
00:53:35,245 --> 00:53:37,405
Speaker 2: we did episode eight sixteen.

991
00:53:38,005 --> 00:53:40,485
Speaker 1: We also like to ask our new family members for

992
00:53:40,685 --> 00:53:43,405
Speaker 1: a movie that they credit with making them a cinophile.

993
00:53:43,485 --> 00:53:47,245
Speaker 1: Ava Saiding Glorious Bastards, and Ryan said it's my all

994
00:53:47,365 --> 00:53:50,765
Speaker 1: time favorite for a reason. I saw the Expectations Versus

995
00:53:50,805 --> 00:53:54,085
Speaker 1: Reality sequence from Five Hundred Days of Summer as a

996
00:53:54,085 --> 00:53:57,525
Speaker 1: budding centophile in high school and immediately blossomed.

997
00:53:57,925 --> 00:54:00,845
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you, Ava and Ryan for being family members

998
00:54:00,885 --> 00:54:03,445
Speaker 2: and for all of those years of listening. You can

999
00:54:03,485 --> 00:54:07,725
Speaker 2: follow Ava on letterboxed at Ava Is Afraid and Ryan

1000
00:54:07,925 --> 00:54:11,205
Speaker 2: Is at Ryan Love's film. In addition to keeping us

1001
00:54:11,245 --> 00:54:14,165
Speaker 2: doing what we're doing, membership does come with perks. You

1002
00:54:14,165 --> 00:54:16,085
Speaker 2: get to listen early in d free, you get our

1003
00:54:16,125 --> 00:54:19,845
Speaker 2: weekly newsletter, you get exclusive opportunities like being part of

1004
00:54:19,845 --> 00:54:23,325
Speaker 2: the Film Spotting Family discord, and you get monthly bonus shows.

1005
00:54:23,525 --> 00:54:26,605
Speaker 2: Just before we sat down to record this very episode,

1006
00:54:26,845 --> 00:54:30,725
Speaker 2: we taped a segment with producer Sam February's bonus episode,

1007
00:54:31,045 --> 00:54:35,285
Speaker 2: blind Spotting. We do that every February and August. We're

1008
00:54:35,565 --> 00:54:38,845
Speaker 2: making this a habit. Apparently for the second Blind Spotting

1009
00:54:38,845 --> 00:54:41,805
Speaker 2: in a row, we talked about a Kurrasawo film that

1010
00:54:41,885 --> 00:54:42,205
Speaker 2: none of.

1011
00:54:42,245 --> 00:54:43,445
Speaker 4: Us have seen.

1012
00:54:44,485 --> 00:54:47,085
Speaker 2: Drunken Angel. Turned out to be a pretty good, pretty

1013
00:54:47,085 --> 00:54:48,725
Speaker 2: good conversation. Who would have thunk it?

1014
00:54:49,485 --> 00:54:51,765
Speaker 1: Yeah? I don't think any family members are going to

1015
00:54:51,805 --> 00:54:54,405
Speaker 1: complain that they get more Kurasawa talk, So that was

1016
00:54:54,405 --> 00:54:54,924
Speaker 1: a good one.

1017
00:54:55,445 --> 00:54:58,405
Speaker 2: More information about joining the Film Spotting Family is available

1018
00:54:58,405 --> 00:55:00,765
Speaker 2: at Filmspotting Family dot com and of course, if you'd

1019
00:55:00,805 --> 00:55:04,125
Speaker 2: like to rate or review us, We love getting positive

1020
00:55:04,205 --> 00:55:07,925
Speaker 2: ratings and reviews. You can do that at Apple Podcasts

1021
00:55:08,125 --> 00:55:09,285
Speaker 2: or Spotify.

1022
00:55:11,005 --> 00:55:11,605
Speaker 3: I don't know why.

1023
00:55:11,645 --> 00:55:13,685
Speaker 2: I wondered after this part of Texas Drunk and you

1024
00:55:13,765 --> 00:55:16,405
Speaker 2: took me in and pitted me and him strike nah,

1025
00:55:16,685 --> 00:55:20,125
Speaker 2: marry me? Why? Why did dead him?

1026
00:55:21,085 --> 00:55:22,085
Speaker 1: Reason that happened?

1027
00:55:24,845 --> 00:55:26,364
Speaker 2: And Sonny dad had died in the war.

1028
00:55:28,045 --> 00:55:32,325
Speaker 3: My daughter killed an automobile acts why.

1029
00:55:31,765 --> 00:55:33,245
Speaker 2: See, I don't trust happens.

1030
00:55:33,965 --> 00:55:34,925
Speaker 3: I never did. I never.

1031
00:55:34,965 --> 00:55:35,205
Speaker 4: Wait.

1032
00:55:36,285 --> 00:55:38,965
Speaker 2: It was just about a year ago, exactly, Josh, that

1033
00:55:39,045 --> 00:55:42,285
Speaker 2: we got word about Gene Hackman passing away, and now

1034
00:55:42,445 --> 00:55:48,405
Speaker 2: another Titan, one of the greats, Robert Duval Hackman. He

1035
00:55:48,445 --> 00:55:52,245
Speaker 2: was born in January nineteen thirty in San Bernardino, California.

1036
00:55:52,285 --> 00:55:55,925
Speaker 2: A year later, January nineteen thirty one, Duval was born

1037
00:55:56,045 --> 00:55:59,245
Speaker 2: just about two hours south in San Diego. They both

1038
00:55:59,285 --> 00:56:00,964
Speaker 2: passed away at ninety five.

1039
00:56:01,325 --> 00:56:03,525
Speaker 1: Yeah, And for those who might be curious, Sam did

1040
00:56:03,525 --> 00:56:06,765
Speaker 1: a little research on this. Apparently they only appeared in

1041
00:56:06,765 --> 00:56:11,725
Speaker 1: two films together, so the conversation Duval uncredited there and then.

1042
00:56:12,045 --> 00:56:14,445
Speaker 1: I don't think any of us would have guessed this.

1043
00:56:14,765 --> 00:56:18,965
Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety three's Geronimo, an American Legend, that one,

1044
00:56:19,045 --> 00:56:22,325
Speaker 1: directed by Walter Hill, and yeah, both Hackman and Duval

1045
00:56:22,565 --> 00:56:22,884
Speaker 1: in it.

1046
00:56:23,245 --> 00:56:27,924
Speaker 2: How about that auspicious start to Duval's career nineteen sixty two,

1047
00:56:28,285 --> 00:56:31,525
Speaker 2: To Kill a Mockingbird. Yes, he was Boo Radley. That

1048
00:56:31,765 --> 00:56:36,405
Speaker 2: was his first film appearance, a seven time Oscar nominee

1049
00:56:36,525 --> 00:56:39,285
Speaker 2: one for Best Actor in eighty four for Tender Mercies.

1050
00:56:39,325 --> 00:56:42,645
Speaker 2: And we probably remember him best as Tom Hagen and

1051
00:56:42,725 --> 00:56:47,045
Speaker 2: The Godfather, but Kill Gore, Colonel Kilgore and Apocalypse. Now

1052
00:56:47,085 --> 00:56:50,245
Speaker 2: Frank Hackett in Network the Great Santini, He is the

1053
00:56:50,285 --> 00:56:53,805
Speaker 2: Great Santini and I've never seen it, but maybe now

1054
00:56:53,845 --> 00:56:57,485
Speaker 2: I'm going to have to correct that. Josh Gus McCrae

1055
00:56:57,525 --> 00:57:01,565
Speaker 2: in Lonesome Dove on TV. I know in addition to

1056
00:57:01,645 --> 00:57:05,525
Speaker 2: Lonesome Dove, I surely do have some Robert Duval blind spots.

1057
00:57:05,605 --> 00:57:08,365
Speaker 2: And we're going to have to set a date, I'm guessing,

1058
00:57:08,525 --> 00:57:12,525
Speaker 2: and start our homework to prepare for a Robert Duval

1059
00:57:12,645 --> 00:57:13,085
Speaker 2: Top five.

1060
00:57:13,485 --> 00:57:16,085
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and you know, to the Hackman point, we've been

1061
00:57:16,365 --> 00:57:19,165
Speaker 1: doing way too many of these within the last year.

1062
00:57:19,445 --> 00:57:22,445
Speaker 1: For me, the place I got a start is tender Mercies.

1063
00:57:22,605 --> 00:57:24,045
Speaker 1: Have never seen tender Mercies.

1064
00:57:24,165 --> 00:57:26,765
Speaker 2: I haven't either, And about a musician, I love movies

1065
00:57:26,765 --> 00:57:29,965
Speaker 2: about musicians, even though it's not about a real musician.

1066
00:57:30,205 --> 00:57:32,885
Speaker 1: Still, I'm sure I have more beyond that, but that's

1067
00:57:32,925 --> 00:57:35,685
Speaker 1: probably where it starts. So yeah, we will get to

1068
00:57:35,805 --> 00:57:38,245
Speaker 1: that list for sure fairly soon.

1069
00:57:38,285 --> 00:57:38,525
Speaker 4: Here.

1070
00:57:38,845 --> 00:57:41,925
Speaker 2: Yeah, the same day, the same day we lost Robert Duval.

1071
00:57:42,325 --> 00:57:44,165
Speaker 2: I was gonna say one of the heavyweights, but maybe

1072
00:57:44,205 --> 00:57:49,485
Speaker 2: the heavyweight of documentary filmmaking Frederick Wiseman. He was ninety six,

1073
00:57:49,605 --> 00:57:53,205
Speaker 2: so I mean, both of these men lived very long

1074
00:57:53,285 --> 00:57:58,805
Speaker 2: and very fruitful lives. But Wiseman's someone I discovered early

1075
00:57:58,925 --> 00:58:03,285
Speaker 2: in my film student career watching High School in the

1076
00:58:03,405 --> 00:58:06,965
Speaker 2: nineteen sixties or the film came out in the nineteen sixties.

1077
00:58:06,965 --> 00:58:09,965
Speaker 2: But of course he made Ticket Follies and Hospital and

1078
00:58:10,045 --> 00:58:13,125
Speaker 2: Welfare and Central Park and recently, I don't know if

1079
00:58:13,125 --> 00:58:14,645
Speaker 2: I had it in my top ten or it was

1080
00:58:14,685 --> 00:58:17,805
Speaker 2: an honorable mention, but I'm probably going to butcher the French.

1081
00:58:17,845 --> 00:58:21,965
Speaker 2: But in the twenty twenties they made Menu Plaizer Lettroig Grow,

1082
00:58:22,285 --> 00:58:25,045
Speaker 2: which was about a French restaurant, and of course he's

1083
00:58:25,085 --> 00:58:29,365
Speaker 2: all about He's all about showing you how institutions and

1084
00:58:29,525 --> 00:58:34,645
Speaker 2: systems operate, and it's it seems like it's needed now

1085
00:58:34,725 --> 00:58:38,285
Speaker 2: more than ever, Josh, So it's a big loss.

1086
00:58:38,525 --> 00:58:41,245
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that context you know you just threw in

1087
00:58:41,285 --> 00:58:45,805
Speaker 1: there at the end actually is very telling and is

1088
00:58:45,805 --> 00:58:48,325
Speaker 1: why we probably should do a Wiseman marathon. I know

1089
00:58:48,685 --> 00:58:51,205
Speaker 1: we're in the midst of having family members I believe

1090
00:58:51,325 --> 00:58:54,725
Speaker 1: vote on our marathon pretty soon. Yeah, options, And we

1091
00:58:55,325 --> 00:58:58,165
Speaker 1: obviously did not throw this in because this just this

1092
00:58:58,325 --> 00:59:01,805
Speaker 1: news just came out, But I could use a marathon.

1093
00:59:01,885 --> 00:59:04,845
Speaker 1: You sound like you're pretty good on Wiseman. I've only

1094
00:59:04,845 --> 00:59:07,285
Speaker 1: seen one, there's why so many though, No, there's so many,

1095
00:59:07,685 --> 00:59:10,125
Speaker 1: but you've seen more than me. I've seen one. I

1096
00:59:10,165 --> 00:59:13,285
Speaker 1: saw in Jackson Heights at the Toronto Film Festival that year,

1097
00:59:13,365 --> 00:59:17,565
Speaker 1: really and was so you know, new of his reputation,

1098
00:59:18,005 --> 00:59:20,045
Speaker 1: but it was one of those cases where you're late

1099
00:59:20,165 --> 00:59:23,405
Speaker 1: to scene some with a reputation and yet you are

1100
00:59:23,485 --> 00:59:27,005
Speaker 1: still kind of floored by what I think. It made

1101
00:59:27,005 --> 00:59:29,765
Speaker 1: my top ten that year. So yeah, I don't know

1102
00:59:29,805 --> 00:59:33,645
Speaker 1: that it will happen a marathon, but as many people

1103
00:59:33,765 --> 00:59:36,045
Speaker 1: are probably going to embark on at least seeing one

1104
00:59:36,045 --> 00:59:39,325
Speaker 1: of his films. You know, this has been going around

1105
00:59:39,325 --> 00:59:41,365
Speaker 1: on social media. Do you have of the ones you've

1106
00:59:41,405 --> 00:59:43,725
Speaker 1: seen Adam a starting place you'd recommend.

1107
00:59:44,205 --> 00:59:47,365
Speaker 2: I mean, it's the place I started, and I would

1108
00:59:47,365 --> 00:59:49,965
Speaker 2: say it it still feels like it's essential. It is

1109
00:59:50,045 --> 00:59:53,525
Speaker 2: the one that I feel like film students are most

1110
00:59:53,525 --> 00:59:56,925
Speaker 2: often shown, but it's also early in his career. It

1111
00:59:57,005 --> 01:00:02,045
Speaker 2: feels like Wiseman at a point where he's obviously still

1112
01:00:02,485 --> 01:00:05,485
Speaker 2: figuring it out to some extent as a filmmaker, but

1113
01:00:05,645 --> 01:00:08,325
Speaker 2: he's he's pushed the medium a little bit past what

1114
01:00:08,405 --> 01:00:10,845
Speaker 2: he was doing with Tittcut follies, and that would be

1115
01:00:10,965 --> 01:00:13,725
Speaker 2: high school. High School is the one I would tell

1116
01:00:13,765 --> 01:00:16,725
Speaker 2: people to definitely start with. Yeah, there's so much though

1117
01:00:16,765 --> 01:00:20,445
Speaker 2: the Wiseman has made and chronicled over his life. I mean,

1118
01:00:21,245 --> 01:00:25,845
Speaker 2: talk about someone who is who has told the story.

1119
01:00:25,845 --> 01:00:28,365
Speaker 2: Obviously he's told other stories too, but has really I

1120
01:00:28,405 --> 01:00:32,645
Speaker 2: think chronicled American life in all its forms through institutions.

1121
01:00:32,965 --> 01:00:33,605
Speaker 4: It's Wiseman.

1122
01:00:34,085 --> 01:00:37,005
Speaker 1: Yeah, my perception. And again, I've seen probably as much

1123
01:00:37,085 --> 01:00:40,285
Speaker 1: Ken Burns as I've seen Wiseman, but he almost seems

1124
01:00:40,365 --> 01:00:44,085
Speaker 1: like a parallel and maybe a different approach to the

1125
01:00:44,125 --> 01:00:47,405
Speaker 1: American story than what you get in something from Ken Burns.

1126
01:00:47,725 --> 01:00:51,285
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's that's definitely fair. So well, we'll

1127
01:00:51,285 --> 01:00:53,765
Speaker 2: see if we do ever embark on that Wiseman marathon.

1128
01:00:53,805 --> 01:00:56,365
Speaker 2: The only the only problem with Wiseman films, and this

1129
01:00:56,485 --> 01:01:00,445
Speaker 2: isn't true with movies like High School, but progressively the

1130
01:01:00,485 --> 01:01:02,925
Speaker 2: movies do become considerably longer.

1131
01:01:02,965 --> 01:01:04,765
Speaker 1: Oh they're massive. Yeah, they're massive.

1132
01:01:05,005 --> 01:01:08,005
Speaker 2: You can get three, four, five, six hours. So that

1133
01:01:08,045 --> 01:01:10,565
Speaker 2: makes it a little bit prohibitive with our marathons. But

1134
01:01:11,405 --> 01:01:14,725
Speaker 2: you did mention the marathons, and we haven't thrown this

1135
01:01:14,805 --> 01:01:17,285
Speaker 2: out to the family yet. The family is going to

1136
01:01:17,325 --> 01:01:21,245
Speaker 2: get the entire Film Spotting Advisory Board call. They'll hear

1137
01:01:21,245 --> 01:01:24,525
Speaker 2: that audio, so they'll hear us discuss these, they'll get

1138
01:01:24,525 --> 01:01:27,325
Speaker 2: to vote on these, they'll get to deliberate on the options.

1139
01:01:27,325 --> 01:01:29,405
Speaker 2: But we might as well go ahead and throw this

1140
01:01:29,485 --> 01:01:30,245
Speaker 2: out to everybody.

1141
01:01:30,245 --> 01:01:30,445
Speaker 4: Now.

1142
01:01:30,565 --> 01:01:33,925
Speaker 2: We did narrow it down after that Advisory Board call,

1143
01:01:33,965 --> 01:01:36,325
Speaker 2: and between the three of us, we narrowed it down

1144
01:01:36,365 --> 01:01:40,205
Speaker 2: to four options for our twenty twenty six marathon that

1145
01:01:40,405 --> 01:01:44,125
Speaker 2: we feel really good about. I think as a group,

1146
01:01:44,165 --> 01:01:46,885
Speaker 2: and based on what I'm seeing in the discord, our

1147
01:01:47,965 --> 01:01:51,725
Speaker 2: family members also feel really good about. And those four

1148
01:01:52,725 --> 01:01:57,405
Speaker 2: options are what we're calling for now. The actress's studio

1149
01:01:57,805 --> 01:02:03,605
Speaker 2: effectively method actresses of the fifties and sixties, So films

1150
01:02:03,765 --> 01:02:09,005
Speaker 2: of Joe Anne Woodward, Marilyn Monroe, Lee Remick, Geraldine Page,

1151
01:02:09,045 --> 01:02:14,005
Speaker 2: think of those performers. Brazilian cinema, which was a recommendation

1152
01:02:14,405 --> 01:02:19,205
Speaker 2: of one of our advisory board members, so much to

1153
01:02:19,205 --> 01:02:23,845
Speaker 2: dig into their over several decades. Josh your why don't

1154
01:02:23,845 --> 01:02:25,885
Speaker 2: you go ahead and say what it is? Briefly, your

1155
01:02:26,365 --> 01:02:28,285
Speaker 2: your top pick of dissident cinema.

1156
01:02:28,485 --> 01:02:32,605
Speaker 1: Yeah, dissident cinema just films that are critiquing or pushing

1157
01:02:32,685 --> 01:02:40,365
Speaker 1: back against government to abuse overreach. You know, other countries

1158
01:02:40,405 --> 01:02:44,205
Speaker 1: around the world have been living with this throughout their history,

1159
01:02:44,525 --> 01:02:49,205
Speaker 1: and in the US it's been something that certain populations

1160
01:02:49,245 --> 01:02:52,885
Speaker 1: have lived with throughout the United States history, but all

1161
01:02:52,925 --> 01:02:56,005
Speaker 1: of us increasingly are and so it seemed topical to

1162
01:02:56,085 --> 01:02:58,805
Speaker 1: me to look back at films not only set in

1163
01:02:58,845 --> 01:03:00,765
Speaker 1: the US. I think it was helpful Adam from the

1164
01:03:00,805 --> 01:03:04,925
Speaker 1: film's spoty advisory board meeting to expand this and say,

1165
01:03:05,005 --> 01:03:06,685
Speaker 1: if you were going to do a marathon like this,

1166
01:03:06,805 --> 01:03:09,405
Speaker 1: let's make it global, and so let's look at you know,

1167
01:03:09,525 --> 01:03:13,045
Speaker 1: obviously European wrestling with this around the time of World

1168
01:03:13,125 --> 01:03:17,205
Speaker 1: War Two, but even speaking to the Brazilian question, South

1169
01:03:17,245 --> 01:03:22,125
Speaker 1: American or or perhaps you know, Korean concern and tackling

1170
01:03:22,165 --> 01:03:25,245
Speaker 1: these issues films. So that's where we'd go with the

1171
01:03:25,325 --> 01:03:26,525
Speaker 1: dissonant cinema option.

1172
01:03:26,925 --> 01:03:30,725
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the fourth option post war Japanese cinema. But

1173
01:03:31,205 --> 01:03:36,205
Speaker 2: beyond Kurasawa and Ozu, And look, we still have Ozu

1174
01:03:36,365 --> 01:03:39,965
Speaker 2: and Kurasawa blind spots, but we have seen a fair

1175
01:03:40,085 --> 01:03:43,525
Speaker 2: number of films by those masters. How do we get

1176
01:03:43,565 --> 01:03:48,365
Speaker 2: outside that realm a little bit? We watched a Mizoguchi

1177
01:03:48,445 --> 01:03:50,885
Speaker 2: film as part of a recent marathon, Sancho the Bailiff,

1178
01:03:50,925 --> 01:03:54,485
Speaker 2: and we both loved it. But you Getsu is an

1179
01:03:54,525 --> 01:03:57,285
Speaker 2: all timer or regarded as an all timer, that would

1180
01:03:57,285 --> 01:03:59,605
Speaker 2: be part of this marathon, maybe even the first film

1181
01:03:59,605 --> 01:04:05,685
Speaker 2: in the marathon Floating Clouds by Nurusei, Kinoshita, Kobayashi, Teshugahara,

1182
01:04:05,765 --> 01:04:09,765
Speaker 2: some of these other very well known, very highly regarded

1183
01:04:09,845 --> 01:04:13,645
Speaker 2: Japanese filmmakers, but not the ones who usually get mentioned

1184
01:04:13,685 --> 01:04:16,165
Speaker 2: first or second. That that's who we'd be covering.

1185
01:04:16,365 --> 01:04:18,565
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great bunch. And again just a reminder,

1186
01:04:18,885 --> 01:04:22,045
Speaker 1: you know, film spotting family member is get to vote

1187
01:04:22,085 --> 01:04:26,125
Speaker 1: and actually determine where we land. So if you're not

1188
01:04:26,165 --> 01:04:29,605
Speaker 1: a member of the Familyfilmspotting Family dot Com, sign up

1189
01:04:29,805 --> 01:04:32,405
Speaker 1: and get a chance to be a part of decisions like.

1190
01:04:32,405 --> 01:04:36,165
Speaker 2: This next week here on Film Spotting. Something we haven't

1191
01:04:36,205 --> 01:04:38,325
Speaker 2: had on the show in a while, and it's not

1192
01:04:38,885 --> 01:04:42,005
Speaker 2: for a lack of opportunity or really a lack of interest.

1193
01:04:42,525 --> 01:04:45,565
Speaker 2: It's really just a lack of time, and I finally

1194
01:04:45,605 --> 01:04:49,485
Speaker 2: had the time. We're going to share my conversation with

1195
01:04:49,805 --> 01:04:54,765
Speaker 2: documentary director Morgan Neville, really one of our most well

1196
01:04:54,805 --> 01:04:58,365
Speaker 2: known documentarians. Won't You Be My Neighbor? Was the Mister

1197
01:04:58,445 --> 01:05:01,445
Speaker 2: Rogers documentary from twenty eight, Twenty Feet from Stardom twenty

1198
01:05:01,445 --> 01:05:05,965
Speaker 2: thirteen was the Oscar Winner be Anthony Bourdain documentary Roadrunner

1199
01:05:06,205 --> 01:05:09,645
Speaker 2: from twenty twenty one. I spoke to him about his

1200
01:05:09,725 --> 01:05:13,765
Speaker 2: new film, Paul McCartney Man on the Run, and I

1201
01:05:13,845 --> 01:05:17,365
Speaker 2: was interested in talking to Nevill because we're interested in

1202
01:05:18,045 --> 01:05:21,925
Speaker 2: documentary as a form, we're interested in music, but also

1203
01:05:22,645 --> 01:05:26,565
Speaker 2: we're very interested in Paul McCartney. Turns out, after interviewing him,

1204
01:05:26,725 --> 01:05:29,205
Speaker 2: we're also interested in the bass as an instrument. We

1205
01:05:29,285 --> 01:05:31,325
Speaker 2: both play, so we had a lot in common. We

1206
01:05:31,365 --> 01:05:33,525
Speaker 2: had a really fun conversation. I wish we had a

1207
01:05:33,605 --> 01:05:37,845
Speaker 2: chance actually to talk a little bit longer, but you'll

1208
01:05:37,885 --> 01:05:41,485
Speaker 2: hear that conversation where we'll dig into his movie, which,

1209
01:05:41,525 --> 01:05:43,565
Speaker 2: as you may have gleaned from the title, Man on

1210
01:05:43,605 --> 01:05:47,445
Speaker 2: the Run, it's a look just at that period right

1211
01:05:47,485 --> 01:05:51,325
Speaker 2: after the Beatles split up until John Lennon's death, where

1212
01:05:52,325 --> 01:05:55,565
Speaker 2: he made solo albums, created wings and put out all

1213
01:05:55,565 --> 01:05:59,365
Speaker 2: of those albums and also of course married Linda McCartney

1214
01:05:59,405 --> 01:06:03,565
Speaker 2: and started a family. And it's a lot that the

1215
01:06:03,565 --> 01:06:06,725
Speaker 2: movie chronicles, So look forward to that next week on

1216
01:06:06,765 --> 01:06:09,325
Speaker 2: the show my conversation with him, we will also have

1217
01:06:09,485 --> 01:06:14,845
Speaker 2: our top five Catherine o'haric characters, speaking of again great

1218
01:06:15,205 --> 01:06:19,765
Speaker 2: great performers who have recently passed away unfortunately, but we will.

1219
01:06:19,885 --> 01:06:22,765
Speaker 2: We will have some fun paying tribute to her next week.

1220
01:06:23,565 --> 01:06:25,485
Speaker 1: Absolutely. If you want to keep up with all our

1221
01:06:25,525 --> 01:06:29,765
Speaker 1: future episodes, you can find those listed at film spotting

1222
01:06:30,405 --> 01:06:32,765
Speaker 1: dot net. Adam Last Call. I want to give out

1223
01:06:32,765 --> 01:06:37,965
Speaker 1: a last call because a Copenhagen meetup is probably going

1224
01:06:38,005 --> 01:06:40,285
Speaker 1: to happen. I've heard from three listeners who are interested.

1225
01:06:40,365 --> 01:06:42,205
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say at least three emails.

1226
01:06:42,405 --> 01:06:44,605
Speaker 1: It's three emails and they'll tell me how to say

1227
01:06:44,645 --> 01:06:46,925
Speaker 1: if it is a Copenhagen. Copenhagen, I'm going to say

1228
01:06:46,965 --> 01:06:47,485
Speaker 1: it's Hagen.

1229
01:06:47,805 --> 01:06:50,565
Speaker 2: Probably okay, you'd like to say Hagen, I say Hagen,

1230
01:06:50,645 --> 01:06:51,565
Speaker 2: Tomato Tomato.

1231
01:06:51,885 --> 01:06:56,485
Speaker 1: We'll get that verified by the listeners. We're circling right now.

1232
01:06:56,565 --> 01:07:00,085
Speaker 1: Haven't heard back from all three of them Saturday, March seven.

1233
01:07:00,205 --> 01:07:01,845
Speaker 1: So if this is the first you're hearing of it

1234
01:07:01,885 --> 01:07:05,365
Speaker 1: and you are in the area, go ahead and send

1235
01:07:05,365 --> 01:07:09,085
Speaker 1: an email to feedback at filmspotting dot net or find

1236
01:07:09,085 --> 01:07:11,685
Speaker 1: me on social Larsen on film Larsen with an e.

1237
01:07:12,725 --> 01:07:15,485
Speaker 1: All right, Adam, Next Picture Show, how about this? We

1238
01:07:15,605 --> 01:07:20,645
Speaker 1: touched briefly on the Romeo and Juliet references in the

1239
01:07:20,685 --> 01:07:24,405
Speaker 1: new Wuthering Heights. Well, our sister podcast, the Next Picture

1240
01:07:24,405 --> 01:07:27,405
Speaker 1: Show looking at Cinemas Present via its pass, they were

1241
01:07:27,485 --> 01:07:30,565
Speaker 1: way ahead of us. They are right now having part

1242
01:07:30,605 --> 01:07:33,605
Speaker 1: one of their Pop Classics pairing, and they're talking about

1243
01:07:33,605 --> 01:07:37,445
Speaker 1: Boz Luhrman's Romeo and Juliet from nineteen ninety six. Mariah

1244
01:07:37,445 --> 01:07:40,805
Speaker 1: Gates brought that up and Luhreman's influence on Emerald Fanell

1245
01:07:40,845 --> 01:07:44,245
Speaker 1: as well, and then of course after that their next episode,

1246
01:07:44,285 --> 01:07:48,165
Speaker 1: the following episode, they will get to Wuthering Heights itself.

1247
01:07:48,645 --> 01:07:51,325
Speaker 1: New episodes of the Next Picture Show drop every Tuesday

1248
01:07:51,365 --> 01:07:53,765
Speaker 1: and you can find them wherever you get your podcasts.

1249
01:07:54,445 --> 01:07:56,205
Speaker 1: You know what they put on French fries in Holland

1250
01:07:56,205 --> 01:08:01,725
Speaker 1: instead of catchup, get the mayonnames. I've seen him, do

1251
01:08:01,805 --> 01:08:03,525
Speaker 1: it man, if you found him in his shit.

1252
01:08:03,885 --> 01:08:10,245
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is time for poll results. A couple of

1253
01:08:10,325 --> 01:08:14,565
Speaker 2: weeks ago, in anticipation of our thirtieth anniversary review of Trainspotting,

1254
01:08:15,005 --> 01:08:17,405
Speaker 2: we asked you. We thought it was a simple question,

1255
01:08:17,604 --> 01:08:23,564
Speaker 2: choose life, choose a nineties move the soundtrack. The options

1256
01:08:23,564 --> 01:08:29,445
Speaker 2: were clueless, dazed and confused, the Crow, pulp fiction, Boz

1257
01:08:29,525 --> 01:08:33,925
Speaker 2: Luhrman's Romeo and Juliet. There it is again, reality bites, singles,

1258
01:08:34,845 --> 01:08:39,045
Speaker 2: train Spotting where you could go other and write it in.

1259
01:08:39,165 --> 01:08:42,285
Speaker 2: And I don't want to spoil the results here, Josh,

1260
01:08:42,285 --> 01:08:45,485
Speaker 2: But other did Other did better than it usually does

1261
01:08:45,525 --> 01:08:46,205
Speaker 2: in these polls.

1262
01:08:46,565 --> 01:08:50,644
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely and understandably. I mean, as we discussed

1263
01:08:50,645 --> 01:08:52,965
Speaker 1: when we first laid out this poll, so many options

1264
01:08:52,965 --> 01:08:57,005
Speaker 1: and so many personal experiences of the soundtracks of this time,

1265
01:08:57,125 --> 01:09:00,205
Speaker 1: speaking of which I'm going to read the results Adam

1266
01:09:00,205 --> 01:09:03,045
Speaker 1: and express. You know how I feel about them based

1267
01:09:03,085 --> 01:09:06,125
Speaker 1: on whether I own the CD so okay, last place

1268
01:09:06,565 --> 01:09:11,564
Speaker 1: Reality Bites three percent hurts. Hurts, I had Reality Bites,

1269
01:09:11,885 --> 01:09:14,805
Speaker 1: listen to it quite a bit clueless four percent didn't

1270
01:09:14,845 --> 01:09:17,605
Speaker 1: have that one so fine singles nine percent didn't have

1271
01:09:17,645 --> 01:09:21,684
Speaker 1: that either. The Crow didn't have that loved hearing producer

1272
01:09:21,725 --> 01:09:25,844
Speaker 1: Saam's affection for the Crows soundtrack ten percent. Boz Luerman's

1273
01:09:25,925 --> 01:09:29,165
Speaker 1: Romeo and Juliet also at ten percent, so a tie there.

1274
01:09:29,725 --> 01:09:33,325
Speaker 1: Dazed and Confused twelve percent that whole bunch I did

1275
01:09:33,325 --> 01:09:35,005
Speaker 1: not own, so that's fine that they're at the end

1276
01:09:35,045 --> 01:09:40,285
Speaker 1: here other did place with thirteen percent. And here are

1277
01:09:40,285 --> 01:09:46,564
Speaker 1: some of the writings. Reservoir Dogs, Jackie Brown, Rushmore, Judgment, Knight,

1278
01:09:47,325 --> 01:09:51,764
Speaker 1: crookln Empire Records, Until the End of the World, Natural

1279
01:09:51,805 --> 01:09:57,685
Speaker 1: Born Killers, Mal Rats, Sleepless in Seattle, Lost Highway, Boogie Nights, Magnolia,

1280
01:09:57,765 --> 01:10:01,525
Speaker 1: Pump up the Volume, Gross point blank, and ten Things

1281
01:10:01,645 --> 01:10:04,765
Speaker 1: I Hate about You. I think this is Sam's note here.

1282
01:10:04,805 --> 01:10:08,365
Speaker 1: Given the plethora of other writings, how did no one

1283
01:10:08,445 --> 01:10:11,365
Speaker 1: write in so I married an ax murder? Can you

1284
01:10:11,445 --> 01:10:14,325
Speaker 1: name a billiond adam on the so I Married an

1285
01:10:14,325 --> 01:10:15,605
Speaker 1: axe Murderer? Soundtrack.

1286
01:10:16,565 --> 01:10:20,765
Speaker 2: No, I cannot sorry, Elastica, I've known it.

1287
01:10:21,205 --> 01:10:23,525
Speaker 1: The band is that, Yeah, that's definitely it us a

1288
01:10:23,605 --> 01:10:26,325
Speaker 1: nineties band. Okay, all right, So let's get to the

1289
01:10:26,365 --> 01:10:30,205
Speaker 1: top here where things were pretty tight. In second place,

1290
01:10:30,925 --> 01:10:34,605
Speaker 1: sixteen percent of the vote was Train Spotting, but that

1291
01:10:34,725 --> 01:10:38,844
Speaker 1: meant pulp fiction won this poll with twenty four percent

1292
01:10:38,885 --> 01:10:39,525
Speaker 1: of the vote.

1293
01:10:39,765 --> 01:10:40,445
Speaker 4: That feels right.

1294
01:10:40,485 --> 01:10:42,805
Speaker 2: It feels right that those two were at the top,

1295
01:10:42,885 --> 01:10:45,285
Speaker 2: and to have all those options and for pulp fiction

1296
01:10:45,405 --> 01:10:49,005
Speaker 2: to take a quarter of the votes, that's pretty impressive.

1297
01:10:49,045 --> 01:10:51,525
Speaker 2: And we're going to share Troy Taylor here. This is

1298
01:10:51,525 --> 01:10:54,724
Speaker 2: a response that Sam actually shared in the Film Spotting

1299
01:10:55,085 --> 01:10:56,445
Speaker 2: newsletter a little while back.

1300
01:10:56,485 --> 01:10:58,684
Speaker 4: It's a good one for people alive during the nineties.

1301
01:10:58,685 --> 01:11:00,725
Speaker 2: Our choice is going to be heavily influenced by the

1302
01:11:00,765 --> 01:11:03,604
Speaker 2: soundtrack we happened to choose in the CD store with

1303
01:11:03,645 --> 01:11:06,165
Speaker 2: our limited music funds. You might have wanted to listen

1304
01:11:06,245 --> 01:11:08,085
Speaker 2: to all these soundtracks, but you couldn't buy them all.

1305
01:11:08,125 --> 01:11:10,005
Speaker 2: So whichever one you settled on will be the one

1306
01:11:10,045 --> 01:11:12,125
Speaker 2: you listened to, which will make it the one you're

1307
01:11:12,125 --> 01:11:15,125
Speaker 2: most attached to. For me, that would be Romeo and Juliet.

1308
01:11:15,325 --> 01:11:17,805
Speaker 2: All these soundtrack choices are solid, But this is the

1309
01:11:17,845 --> 01:11:20,885
Speaker 2: soundtrack I bought, so when it comes on, I'm whisked back.

1310
01:11:21,045 --> 01:11:23,924
Speaker 2: Today is driving in My Black ninety five money Carlow

1311
01:11:24,205 --> 01:11:26,805
Speaker 2: with Friends as an immortal young adult, and that's what

1312
01:11:26,925 --> 01:11:29,565
Speaker 2: makes it the superior soundtrack.

1313
01:11:30,085 --> 01:11:33,604
Speaker 1: Substitute in eighty nine Honda Accord that I bought from

1314
01:11:33,645 --> 01:11:36,965
Speaker 1: my parents, Troy, and you're you're speaking my language, you

1315
01:11:36,965 --> 01:11:37,125
Speaker 1: know that.

1316
01:11:37,245 --> 01:11:39,764
Speaker 2: Yeah, all of us had a Black Money Carlo.

1317
01:11:40,405 --> 01:11:43,045
Speaker 1: Yeah, really, but I did have you hit you hit

1318
01:11:43,045 --> 01:11:45,285
Speaker 1: the button in the headlights like popped.

1319
01:11:45,045 --> 01:11:48,365
Speaker 4: Up, you know, ooh, pretty cool, Okay.

1320
01:11:48,165 --> 01:11:50,965
Speaker 1: Scott g Wade in of course, any young movie buff

1321
01:11:50,965 --> 01:11:54,405
Speaker 1: in the nineties had to have that pulp fiction CD. Yeah,

1322
01:11:54,445 --> 01:11:57,644
Speaker 1: it's true, Scott, but it's truly cool cinema fans. We're

1323
01:11:57,685 --> 01:12:00,925
Speaker 1: already on board with Tarantino song selection skills because we'd

1324
01:12:00,965 --> 01:12:04,405
Speaker 1: been playing the Reservoir Dogs soundtrack on repeat for the

1325
01:12:04,445 --> 01:12:07,925
Speaker 1: previous two years, not to mention watching the VHS of

1326
01:12:07,965 --> 01:12:11,525
Speaker 1: the movie itself at least once per week. I love

1327
01:12:11,605 --> 01:12:14,205
Speaker 1: Scott pulling in the you know, just waiting in the

1328
01:12:14,245 --> 01:12:16,725
Speaker 1: background while everyone talks about how much they like this

1329
01:12:16,845 --> 01:12:19,805
Speaker 1: album and then jumping in like well, have you heard

1330
01:12:19,805 --> 01:12:20,644
Speaker 1: their first album?

1331
01:12:21,085 --> 01:12:21,325
Speaker 4: Know what?

1332
01:12:21,405 --> 01:12:21,604
Speaker 3: Though?

1333
01:12:21,805 --> 01:12:26,965
Speaker 2: He's right, I like and liked Reservoir Dogs soundtrack better.

1334
01:12:27,245 --> 01:12:30,165
Speaker 2: I liked it better than Pulp Fiction. I swear to god,

1335
01:12:30,205 --> 01:12:32,245
Speaker 2: I listened to it way more often than Pulp Fiction.

1336
01:12:32,645 --> 01:12:35,205
Speaker 4: Little Green Bag, Off the Off the.

1337
01:12:35,285 --> 01:12:38,365
Speaker 2: Jem, look at the skin bag, I got magic Carpet Ride,

1338
01:12:38,645 --> 01:12:42,085
Speaker 2: Oh for love, stuck in the middle with you, Harvest Moon,

1339
01:12:42,525 --> 01:12:47,445
Speaker 2: You've got coconut, Come on, Harry Nilson's coconut at the end.

1340
01:12:47,845 --> 01:12:49,965
Speaker 1: That's all great at him, But have you ever listened

1341
01:12:49,965 --> 01:12:54,445
Speaker 1: to the soundtrack for Tarantino's short film he made that

1342
01:12:54,485 --> 01:12:57,604
Speaker 1: was never distributed that I don't believe the best soundtrack

1343
01:12:57,645 --> 01:12:58,085
Speaker 1: of all time?

1344
01:12:58,645 --> 01:13:03,445
Speaker 2: So you know, well, Jefferson's gonna one up everybody, even you.

1345
01:13:03,565 --> 01:13:06,125
Speaker 2: Pulp Fiction isn't the best Tarantino soundtrack of the decade.

1346
01:13:06,165 --> 01:13:09,485
Speaker 2: It's the Jackie Brown soundtrack. I still own it on tape,

1347
01:13:09,565 --> 01:13:11,525
Speaker 2: even though I no longer own a tape deck.

1348
01:13:12,165 --> 01:13:15,325
Speaker 1: Considering Jackie Brown is the best Tarantino film, I think

1349
01:13:15,405 --> 01:13:19,045
Speaker 1: Jefferson is on something. Now here's Nicole Novak going with

1350
01:13:19,125 --> 01:13:22,325
Speaker 1: Trainspotting because it was the film that made me a cinophile.

1351
01:13:22,365 --> 01:13:24,925
Speaker 1: In the soundtrack made me a lover of britpop. I

1352
01:13:24,925 --> 01:13:26,925
Speaker 1: saw the movie with a group of friends and half

1353
01:13:26,965 --> 01:13:29,365
Speaker 1: of us exited the theater with our minds blown, me

1354
01:13:29,725 --> 01:13:32,165
Speaker 1: and the other half wondering what they had just sat there.

1355
01:13:32,605 --> 01:13:34,845
Speaker 1: I immediately went out and bought the soundtrack on CD.

1356
01:13:35,005 --> 01:13:38,485
Speaker 1: It's a No Skips iconic collection of music that to

1357
01:13:38,525 --> 01:13:41,525
Speaker 1: this day immediately transports me back to the exact spot

1358
01:13:41,925 --> 01:13:46,965
Speaker 1: in the movie where it's played Choose life, Choose train spotting.

1359
01:13:47,005 --> 01:13:50,804
Speaker 1: And I think Nicole has she has really nailed something

1360
01:13:50,925 --> 01:13:53,644
Speaker 1: with the no Skips idea. I mean, if you get

1361
01:13:53,645 --> 01:13:57,245
Speaker 1: a soundtrack that's no Skips, that's yeah, that's top notch.

1362
01:13:57,245 --> 01:13:58,725
Speaker 1: It's kind of like I remember when we used to

1363
01:13:58,725 --> 01:14:03,564
Speaker 1: buy CDs, back to Troy's point about spending your money,

1364
01:14:03,645 --> 01:14:06,645
Speaker 1: because like it was this you just had to make

1365
01:14:06,645 --> 01:14:09,604
Speaker 1: an actual purchase. You couldn't stream it. And I remember thinking,

1366
01:14:09,685 --> 01:14:12,885
Speaker 1: if I get five songs I love on this album,

1367
01:14:13,245 --> 01:14:15,045
Speaker 1: that was that was a good investment.

1368
01:14:15,085 --> 01:14:16,085
Speaker 4: I think that's the right number.

1369
01:14:16,165 --> 01:14:19,684
Speaker 1: You're right, Yeah, you get a No Skips You're doing great.

1370
01:14:20,205 --> 01:14:21,805
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's prema. Well, you're right.

1371
01:14:21,845 --> 01:14:25,604
Speaker 2: Sean muldoon is going to expand on Nicole's thoughts look, guys,

1372
01:14:25,685 --> 01:14:27,685
Speaker 2: you often joke about the deeply flawed poles, but this

1373
01:14:27,765 --> 01:14:29,885
Speaker 2: might be your most flawed one yet, not because the

1374
01:14:29,925 --> 01:14:32,405
Speaker 2: options are bad or you're missing a clear winner, but

1375
01:14:32,485 --> 01:14:35,564
Speaker 2: because Trainspotting is so far and away the only right winner.

1376
01:14:35,885 --> 01:14:38,085
Speaker 2: Trainspotting is the one movie on this list where the

1377
01:14:38,085 --> 01:14:40,405
Speaker 2: film felt like it was the defining document of a

1378
01:14:40,405 --> 01:14:43,765
Speaker 2: cultural and musical moment. As Britpop took over the UK,

1379
01:14:43,925 --> 01:14:46,085
Speaker 2: everyone abroad was trying to find a way to capitalize

1380
01:14:46,085 --> 01:14:48,045
Speaker 2: on it, whether it was the re emergence of Bond

1381
01:14:48,045 --> 01:14:51,645
Speaker 2: with GoldenEye, or Tony Blair's New Labor, or the commercialized

1382
01:14:51,725 --> 01:14:54,605
Speaker 2: version of britpop via The Spice Girls. Danny Boyle was

1383
01:14:54,645 --> 01:14:57,325
Speaker 2: the one filmmaker who understood the working class backgrounds and

1384
01:14:57,365 --> 01:15:00,005
Speaker 2: themes of artists like Pulp and Oasis that captured the

1385
01:15:00,085 --> 01:15:02,764
Speaker 2: kind of heatedness to gratitude of those bands, that understood

1386
01:15:02,765 --> 01:15:05,684
Speaker 2: the musical influences of on the movement that was happening

1387
01:15:05,765 --> 01:15:08,604
Speaker 2: Bowie New Order, and found the perfect novel to adapt

1388
01:15:08,605 --> 01:15:11,684
Speaker 2: for that moment. Plus nay, many of those movies listed

1389
01:15:11,685 --> 01:15:14,684
Speaker 2: that have a scene so singularly built around its music

1390
01:15:15,085 --> 01:15:18,804
Speaker 2: as train Spotting's opening of lust for Life are closing

1391
01:15:18,845 --> 01:15:22,125
Speaker 2: of born slippy, like, come on, guy, what are we

1392
01:15:22,205 --> 01:15:24,685
Speaker 2: doing here? And what's funny here is? I could give

1393
01:15:24,725 --> 01:15:27,125
Speaker 2: them one for sure, and you know what it is,

1394
01:15:27,605 --> 01:15:30,445
Speaker 2: it's stuck in the middle with you from Reservoir Dogs.

1395
01:15:31,125 --> 01:15:35,765
Speaker 1: I suppose I think Sean has a very strong thesis there.

1396
01:15:35,845 --> 01:15:40,684
Speaker 1: Here's Jonathan Anderson in Denver. As far as licensed needle

1397
01:15:40,765 --> 01:15:43,845
Speaker 1: drop soundtrack albums, there is no better than the Crow

1398
01:15:44,125 --> 01:15:47,085
Speaker 1: Oh Sam support here, thank you. I will not be

1399
01:15:47,125 --> 01:15:51,525
Speaker 1: accepting questions at this time, Okay, Jim McMahon, I went

1400
01:15:51,565 --> 01:15:54,844
Speaker 1: with singles in this flawed poll, with the flawed reasoning

1401
01:15:54,885 --> 01:15:57,325
Speaker 1: that it's very much of its early nineties era as

1402
01:15:57,325 --> 01:16:00,045
Speaker 1: opposed to a crate dive. I got it a month

1403
01:16:00,085 --> 01:16:02,604
Speaker 1: before I went off to college and proudly tacked the

1404
01:16:02,605 --> 01:16:06,125
Speaker 1: long box up on my wall, which now feels like

1405
01:16:06,165 --> 01:16:09,045
Speaker 1: the most on the nose early nineties thing I could

1406
01:16:09,085 --> 01:16:15,605
Speaker 1: have done. Oh my gosh, Jim, mm hmm my flashbacks.

1407
01:16:16,405 --> 01:16:21,724
Speaker 1: I'm having intense flashbacks of which year was it. Yeah,

1408
01:16:21,845 --> 01:16:27,885
Speaker 1: sophomore year college. The entire wall against my bad was

1409
01:16:27,965 --> 01:16:31,765
Speaker 1: just cut out long box covers taped as wallpaper.

1410
01:16:32,405 --> 01:16:34,045
Speaker 4: Okay, I forgot about your singles.

1411
01:16:34,245 --> 01:16:36,925
Speaker 2: I think I said this when we announced this pull

1412
01:16:37,405 --> 01:16:39,724
Speaker 2: singles in Pulp Fiction I think are the only two

1413
01:16:39,765 --> 01:16:42,765
Speaker 2: on this list that I owned. So I love the

1414
01:16:42,845 --> 01:16:46,485
Speaker 2: singles love Patrick says. I chose Romeo and Juliet because

1415
01:16:46,485 --> 01:16:48,325
Speaker 2: of how well the music works within the movie. I

1416
01:16:48,325 --> 01:16:50,005
Speaker 2: don't know if I've ever listened to it on my own,

1417
01:16:50,045 --> 01:16:53,325
Speaker 2: but to hear Garbages number one, Crush, the Cardigan's Love

1418
01:16:53,365 --> 01:16:56,805
Speaker 2: Fool and Desiree's Kissing You within the movie was and

1419
01:16:56,965 --> 01:17:00,005
Speaker 2: is sublime. Baz can be a lot for me with

1420
01:17:00,125 --> 01:17:02,325
Speaker 2: this one his best. I never tire of it.

1421
01:17:02,885 --> 01:17:06,165
Speaker 1: Here's Julio Olivera. I hate that my beloved Reality Bites

1422
01:17:06,205 --> 01:17:09,005
Speaker 1: is getting slaughtered. Yeah, I know, Julio, Come on my

1423
01:17:09,125 --> 01:17:12,684
Speaker 1: Sharona and Lisa Loebe stay in one disc. I also owned,

1424
01:17:12,805 --> 01:17:16,045
Speaker 1: probably still owned pulp Fiction Clueless and Train Spotting, but

1425
01:17:16,205 --> 01:17:19,285
Speaker 1: none of them got as much play as the Reality Bites. Disc.

1426
01:17:19,765 --> 01:17:22,085
Speaker 2: A few more here, They're all so good. Peter Ralston

1427
01:17:22,165 --> 01:17:24,925
Speaker 2: and Brisbane, Australia. I was in the supermarket when I

1428
01:17:24,925 --> 01:17:27,445
Speaker 2: heard there would be a poll on nineties movie soundtracks

1429
01:17:27,685 --> 01:17:29,685
Speaker 2: and did my best not to punch the air. I

1430
01:17:29,685 --> 01:17:32,365
Speaker 2: thought I was alone in my appreciation of ninety soundtracks,

1431
01:17:32,365 --> 01:17:35,485
Speaker 2: they outnumber all other decades soundtracks combined at our house.

1432
01:17:35,845 --> 01:17:38,205
Speaker 2: The soundtrack I voted for was the CD I played

1433
01:17:38,205 --> 01:17:40,645
Speaker 2: so much I wore it out. Until the End of

1434
01:17:40,685 --> 01:17:43,245
Speaker 2: the World. Yes, the one that would always prompt someone

1435
01:17:43,285 --> 01:17:45,845
Speaker 2: to stop the conversation abruptly and ask, what are we

1436
01:17:45,925 --> 01:17:46,405
Speaker 2: listening to?

1437
01:17:46,885 --> 01:17:48,445
Speaker 4: This is great, so great.

1438
01:17:48,445 --> 01:17:50,365
Speaker 2: It was the music they would play for years at

1439
01:17:50,405 --> 01:17:54,165
Speaker 2: the Warana Cinema up in Townsville, in that cool red

1440
01:17:54,285 --> 01:17:57,885
Speaker 2: velvet curtain space before the movie came on Sweet Oblivion

1441
01:17:58,125 --> 01:18:01,005
Speaker 2: from start to finish and Josh, you're so cool because

1442
01:18:01,005 --> 01:18:02,765
Speaker 2: I know you love this one, and this is a

1443
01:18:02,845 --> 01:18:05,564
Speaker 2: Vim Vendors movie. Not only have I not heard the soundtrack,

1444
01:18:05,605 --> 01:18:06,684
Speaker 2: I've never seen the movie.

1445
01:18:06,925 --> 01:18:10,205
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just yeah, I listed when we first

1446
01:18:10,445 --> 01:18:14,644
Speaker 1: talked about this poll, like Depeche Mode, em Talking Heads,

1447
01:18:14,805 --> 01:18:18,485
Speaker 1: Lou Reed and the mood. It's like all the songs,

1448
01:18:18,965 --> 01:18:23,525
Speaker 1: you know, you can get these soundtracks where they're going

1449
01:18:23,565 --> 01:18:27,725
Speaker 1: in different places, each song right capturing different scenes. To me,

1450
01:18:27,805 --> 01:18:29,285
Speaker 1: when I think of Until the End of the World,

1451
01:18:29,365 --> 01:18:34,365
Speaker 1: it's just this sort of apocalyptic mood that every song

1452
01:18:34,485 --> 01:18:37,925
Speaker 1: captures in its own way. From my commenting list, so okay,

1453
01:18:38,045 --> 01:18:40,285
Speaker 1: hard to argue with. It's all right, where are we

1454
01:18:40,325 --> 01:18:44,885
Speaker 1: at here? We were, yes, just bombarded with feedback, Darren

1455
01:18:44,965 --> 01:18:47,724
Speaker 1: Let's go to Darin. Natural Born Killers is the first

1456
01:18:47,725 --> 01:18:50,205
Speaker 1: title that comes to mind when I think of ninety soundtracks.

1457
01:18:50,565 --> 01:18:52,725
Speaker 1: Not only did it bring Patti Smith, Leonard Cohen, and

1458
01:18:52,805 --> 01:18:55,525
Speaker 1: nine inch Nails into my seventeen year old taste, it

1459
01:18:55,605 --> 01:18:59,885
Speaker 1: also managed to have Patsy Klein, noosrut Fete, Ali Khan,

1460
01:19:00,405 --> 01:19:03,525
Speaker 1: and Jane's addiction somehow makes sense within a ten minute span.

1461
01:19:04,125 --> 01:19:06,525
Speaker 1: So many of these ninety soundtracks, yes, I owned every

1462
01:19:06,525 --> 01:19:09,885
Speaker 1: single one of those listed here incorporated dialogue from the movie.

1463
01:19:10,165 --> 01:19:12,925
Speaker 1: But I can't hear the Cowboy Junkies Sweet Jane without

1464
01:19:12,925 --> 01:19:17,005
Speaker 1: also hearing Woody Harrelson's Mickey announced the whole World's coming

1465
01:19:17,045 --> 01:19:20,005
Speaker 1: to an end. Mal and You Belong to Me Maybe

1466
01:19:20,005 --> 01:19:22,325
Speaker 1: one of my favorite Bob songs, even though I'm pretty

1467
01:19:22,325 --> 01:19:25,165
Speaker 1: sure I've only heard it with Mickey and Mallory talking

1468
01:19:25,205 --> 01:19:30,125
Speaker 1: through it. I forgot about that detail. Yeah, the dialog thing, Yeah.

1469
01:19:29,565 --> 01:19:32,685
Speaker 2: The last two here, Michael. The Empire Record soundtrack is

1470
01:19:32,685 --> 01:19:35,564
Speaker 2: so great it couldn't be contained on the official soundtrack release.

1471
01:19:35,805 --> 01:19:38,125
Speaker 2: So I burned a CD with over a dozen songs

1472
01:19:38,165 --> 01:19:40,644
Speaker 2: in the movie that weren't included on the official soundtrack.

1473
01:19:40,885 --> 01:19:43,405
Speaker 2: It's also an album that reflects the diversity of music

1474
01:19:43,445 --> 01:19:46,725
Speaker 2: tastes of the characters. Ethan Embry's Mark, for instance, is

1475
01:19:46,765 --> 01:19:48,765
Speaker 2: more into punk and thrash metal, so you get an

1476
01:19:48,765 --> 01:19:51,845
Speaker 2: eclectic mix. You've got the Gin Blossoms, the Cranberry's Toad,

1477
01:19:51,885 --> 01:19:55,604
Speaker 2: the Wet Sprocket Guar, Coyote Shivers, and of course the

1478
01:19:55,645 --> 01:19:59,725
Speaker 2: fictional Rex Manning. It's full of bangers.

1479
01:19:59,805 --> 01:20:01,405
Speaker 1: Oh Man Jin Blossoms.

1480
01:20:01,445 --> 01:20:01,724
Speaker 4: Wow.

1481
01:20:01,845 --> 01:20:05,604
Speaker 1: Okay. Last comment, Maxwell Fletcher, I just had to throw

1482
01:20:05,605 --> 01:20:08,325
Speaker 1: a vote in for the underseen Spike Lee Jem Crooklin.

1483
01:20:08,725 --> 01:20:12,005
Speaker 1: The semi autobiographical movie centers on growing up in nineteen

1484
01:20:12,045 --> 01:20:16,285
Speaker 1: seventies Brooklyn, and the double disc soundtrack is absolutely overflowing

1485
01:20:16,325 --> 01:20:18,125
Speaker 1: with some of the best R and B from that time.

1486
01:20:18,605 --> 01:20:23,645
Speaker 1: The staple singers Stevie Wonder, the Stylistics, James Brown, Slide In,

1487
01:20:23,685 --> 01:20:26,845
Speaker 1: the Family Stone, the Jbs. The list just keeps going.

1488
01:20:27,165 --> 01:20:29,325
Speaker 1: I was probably eleven or twelve when I saw the movie,

1489
01:20:29,525 --> 01:20:32,405
Speaker 1: and the NonStop bangers hooked me immediately. It doesn't hurt

1490
01:20:32,405 --> 01:20:34,684
Speaker 1: that this coming of Age movie is vibrant, sweet tender,

1491
01:20:35,005 --> 01:20:37,485
Speaker 1: and I think it's one of Spike's best. I'm probably

1492
01:20:37,525 --> 01:20:40,405
Speaker 1: the only one with this write in, but perhaps it

1493
01:20:40,445 --> 01:20:42,365
Speaker 1: will prompt a few folks out there to seek it

1494
01:20:42,405 --> 01:20:46,564
Speaker 1: out if nothing else. Your ears well, thank you, yeah,

1495
01:20:46,605 --> 01:20:48,525
Speaker 1: thank you, Maxwell. I think I think that might be

1496
01:20:48,565 --> 01:20:50,245
Speaker 1: the one I'm going to next after this.

1497
01:20:50,405 --> 01:20:53,085
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, I can see that. I'm glad to be

1498
01:20:53,165 --> 01:20:55,564
Speaker 2: reminded of how good that is as well. We think

1499
01:20:55,605 --> 01:20:58,685
Speaker 2: everyone who voted and who left a comment, sorry if

1500
01:20:58,725 --> 01:21:00,445
Speaker 2: we didn't get to you. It is time for a

1501
01:21:00,485 --> 01:21:02,365
Speaker 2: new pole, though it's not really a new pole. I

1502
01:21:02,365 --> 01:21:04,725
Speaker 2: think we started this maybe last year, maybe even the

1503
01:21:04,805 --> 01:21:08,965
Speaker 2: year before. It's a ballot. We're looking for your official

1504
01:21:09,685 --> 01:21:13,844
Speaker 2: Academy of Film Spotting Listeners Best Picture ballot. Our Oscar

1505
01:21:13,925 --> 01:21:17,325
Speaker 2: special is coming up. So you've got ten nominees and

1506
01:21:17,365 --> 01:21:19,604
Speaker 2: your job is to make sure that you've watched them

1507
01:21:19,645 --> 01:21:22,325
Speaker 2: all and then rank. Rather than just giving you a

1508
01:21:22,325 --> 01:21:25,285
Speaker 2: poll where you can only select one option, we're giving

1509
01:21:25,285 --> 01:21:27,765
Speaker 2: you a survey where you can drag and rank them,

1510
01:21:28,845 --> 01:21:30,965
Speaker 2: tell us the order, submit your ballot.

1511
01:21:31,285 --> 01:21:35,005
Speaker 1: Look at that technology. So that's the Academy of Film

1512
01:21:35,005 --> 01:21:38,485
Speaker 1: Spotting Listeners Best Picture. That's the AFLBB.

1513
01:21:39,925 --> 01:21:41,485
Speaker 4: Yes, let's go with that.

1514
01:21:41,925 --> 01:21:44,285
Speaker 2: Officially, we're not going to list them all. You know

1515
01:21:44,365 --> 01:21:46,445
Speaker 2: him or can look them up in two weeks on

1516
01:21:46,485 --> 01:21:49,925
Speaker 2: our Oscar special. We'll probably share our picks when we

1517
01:21:49,925 --> 01:21:52,965
Speaker 2: get to Best Picture, our exact order, but we'll talk

1518
01:21:52,965 --> 01:21:56,445
Speaker 2: about who will win. More importantly, who should win, who

1519
01:21:56,445 --> 01:22:00,605
Speaker 2: should have been nominated Michael Phillips, He typically joins us,

1520
01:22:00,685 --> 01:22:02,885
Speaker 2: I guess I should harass him about that and make

1521
01:22:02,925 --> 01:22:03,924
Speaker 2: sure that he's available.

1522
01:22:04,205 --> 01:22:04,725
Speaker 4: Haven't done that?

1523
01:22:04,805 --> 01:22:04,885
Speaker 3: Ye?

1524
01:22:05,565 --> 01:22:07,365
Speaker 4: Come on, yeah, I haven't done that yet.

1525
01:22:07,445 --> 01:22:10,245
Speaker 2: You can submit your ballot and leave a comment at

1526
01:22:10,245 --> 01:22:14,165
Speaker 2: film spotting dot net results and your feedback on that

1527
01:22:14,245 --> 01:22:15,965
Speaker 2: show in a couple of weeks.

1528
01:22:17,925 --> 01:22:20,764
Speaker 1: I am packing my belongings in the show my mother used.

1529
01:22:20,605 --> 01:22:23,125
Speaker 3: To wear and she went to the market, and I'm

1530
01:22:23,205 --> 01:22:27,165
Speaker 3: going for my vene. This time I shall never return.

1531
01:22:28,765 --> 01:22:31,604
Speaker 3: I am leaving behind me my fifty years of memory.

1532
01:22:32,245 --> 01:22:38,525
Speaker 2: The Pantheon project officially commences last week. Me You producer

1533
01:22:38,565 --> 01:22:42,525
Speaker 2: Sam nominated nine films for the Film Spotting Pantheon. Six

1534
01:22:42,525 --> 01:22:45,804
Speaker 2: of them have been reviewed have been discussed in depth

1535
01:22:46,125 --> 01:22:49,525
Speaker 2: by You and Me on the show The Battle of Algiers.

1536
01:22:50,165 --> 01:22:53,804
Speaker 2: Harlan County, USA, The Best Years of our Lives, Cleo

1537
01:22:53,885 --> 01:22:57,564
Speaker 2: from five to seven, Stopped Making Sense, and a Boss

1538
01:22:57,725 --> 01:23:01,685
Speaker 2: Kiristami's Close Up. It's a good list to be eligible.

1539
01:23:02,245 --> 01:23:07,045
Speaker 2: There are three others that still need reviews. Akira Kurosaw

1540
01:23:07,125 --> 01:23:09,525
Speaker 2: was Raschamon. It was part of a marathon, but you

1541
01:23:09,565 --> 01:23:11,365
Speaker 2: weren't part of that marathon, Josh. That was a long

1542
01:23:11,365 --> 01:23:15,525
Speaker 2: time ago. Kelly Reikert's Meek's Cut Off reviewed here on

1543
01:23:15,605 --> 01:23:19,965
Speaker 2: this show, but also before your Time and now the

1544
01:23:20,005 --> 01:23:24,765
Speaker 2: film were about to talk about your wild card choice, Josh.

1545
01:23:24,965 --> 01:23:27,325
Speaker 2: A movie John Ford's How Green Was My Valley from

1546
01:23:27,365 --> 01:23:31,205
Speaker 2: nineteen forty one that not only has never been reviewed

1547
01:23:31,245 --> 01:23:33,685
Speaker 2: in any form here on the show, a movie that

1548
01:23:33,845 --> 01:23:35,845
Speaker 2: I've never seen until now.

1549
01:23:36,325 --> 01:23:38,165
Speaker 1: I just wanted to do you a favor, Adam. I

1550
01:23:38,205 --> 01:23:40,805
Speaker 1: wanted to give you an excuse to knock out a

1551
01:23:40,845 --> 01:23:44,525
Speaker 1: blind spot, a John Ford blind spot, noeless. So this

1552
01:23:44,685 --> 01:23:48,285
Speaker 1: film is set in a coal mining community in rural

1553
01:23:48,325 --> 01:23:50,805
Speaker 1: Wales at the turn of the twentieth century. It won

1554
01:23:50,925 --> 01:23:56,325
Speaker 1: five Oscars, including Ford's second consecutive for Best Director. He

1555
01:23:56,365 --> 01:23:59,325
Speaker 1: had won for the Grapes of Breath a year earlier.

1556
01:23:59,485 --> 01:24:01,325
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think we have to start with your

1557
01:24:01,445 --> 01:24:04,725
Speaker 1: first impressions, Adam, And I don't know. Maybe some good

1558
01:24:04,765 --> 01:24:11,045
Speaker 1: context is just what your understanding or perception of the

1559
01:24:11,085 --> 01:24:14,604
Speaker 1: movie was before watching it, and then what you made

1560
01:24:14,645 --> 01:24:15,925
Speaker 1: of the actual film itself.

1561
01:24:16,725 --> 01:24:19,405
Speaker 2: Well, I don't know at what point it exactly was,

1562
01:24:19,485 --> 01:24:24,365
Speaker 2: but I certainly in more recent years came to recognize

1563
01:24:24,445 --> 01:24:28,005
Speaker 2: that it it was a film that is widely admired.

1564
01:24:29,045 --> 01:24:32,605
Speaker 2: But prior to that, it was kind of a punchline.

1565
01:24:32,845 --> 01:24:36,405
Speaker 2: Or that's that's how I thought of it, right, Citizen

1566
01:24:36,485 --> 01:24:40,205
Speaker 2: Kane got beat by How Green Was My Valley? The

1567
01:24:40,365 --> 01:24:43,925
Speaker 2: name even is part of it. The name sounds so

1568
01:24:44,085 --> 01:24:48,125
Speaker 2: paint right and so unassuming. If the Academy was going

1569
01:24:48,165 --> 01:24:50,604
Speaker 2: to screw up, if the Academy was going to get

1570
01:24:50,645 --> 01:24:56,085
Speaker 2: something that monumentally wrong, it would be for a movie

1571
01:24:56,525 --> 01:24:59,445
Speaker 2: or over a movie called How Green Was My Valley?

1572
01:24:59,725 --> 01:25:04,764
Speaker 2: Just really wrong, right, just so just so misguided. Well,

1573
01:25:04,805 --> 01:25:09,285
Speaker 2: you know what, it isn't Citizen Kane. But it doesn't matter,

1574
01:25:10,125 --> 01:25:11,925
Speaker 2: because it's still a pretty great film.

1575
01:25:12,285 --> 01:25:13,125
Speaker 4: Yes that I'm.

1576
01:25:12,965 --> 01:25:17,804
Speaker 2: Really grateful I saw, and and I hate to pile

1577
01:25:17,885 --> 01:25:22,485
Speaker 2: on the movie we talked about originally here, but I'm

1578
01:25:22,525 --> 01:25:28,205
Speaker 2: watching this back to back with Wuthering Heights, and I'm

1579
01:25:28,245 --> 01:25:30,564
Speaker 2: thinking about it in relation to that film, because they're

1580
01:25:30,565 --> 01:25:34,165
Speaker 2: both based on novels. They're both really tied to place.

1581
01:25:35,005 --> 01:25:38,884
Speaker 2: They're intimate in that way, yet quite large in scale

1582
01:25:39,125 --> 01:25:42,045
Speaker 2: when you consider the number of characters and all the

1583
01:25:42,085 --> 01:25:46,165
Speaker 2: story elements, everything that happens to all these characters, the

1584
01:25:46,245 --> 01:25:50,445
Speaker 2: complexity of what has to be conveyed about these people

1585
01:25:50,885 --> 01:25:55,805
Speaker 2: and their relationships and their needs and their desires. And

1586
01:25:56,045 --> 01:25:59,885
Speaker 2: one of those films I came away starving for more,

1587
01:26:00,685 --> 01:26:05,564
Speaker 2: and the other one, this one, my plate somehow was

1588
01:26:05,605 --> 01:26:12,365
Speaker 2: full what I think forward and the screenwriter Philip Dunn.

1589
01:26:12,485 --> 01:26:15,045
Speaker 2: This is my best explanation anyway, But the fact is

1590
01:26:15,565 --> 01:26:18,604
Speaker 2: it's one of those movies that I, immediately after watching it,

1591
01:26:18,605 --> 01:26:21,245
Speaker 2: felt like I can't wait to watch again. And I

1592
01:26:21,285 --> 01:26:22,805
Speaker 2: know we say that, or you can't say there about

1593
01:26:22,845 --> 01:26:26,045
Speaker 2: any really good film, but it really was one of

1594
01:26:26,045 --> 01:26:28,845
Speaker 2: those cases where I felt like I have to go

1595
01:26:28,925 --> 01:26:32,845
Speaker 2: back and watch it and figure out figure out how

1596
01:26:32,845 --> 01:26:38,445
Speaker 2: they're doing this, how they're these elements of classical Hollywood filmmaking,

1597
01:26:38,485 --> 01:26:43,245
Speaker 2: but then also the ways that john Ford is applying

1598
01:26:43,285 --> 01:26:45,965
Speaker 2: his own techniques and doing things very different than a

1599
01:26:45,965 --> 01:26:49,125
Speaker 2: lot of classical Hollywood filmmakers would do. How is he

1600
01:26:49,165 --> 01:26:52,525
Speaker 2: pulling off everything I just described the complexity of all

1601
01:26:52,565 --> 01:26:56,085
Speaker 2: that and making it look easy. But for me, what

1602
01:26:56,125 --> 01:26:58,005
Speaker 2: I'm going to argue anyway, is that what I think

1603
01:26:58,085 --> 01:27:02,684
Speaker 2: he and the screenwriter here, Philip Dunn, understood adapting the material.

1604
01:27:03,205 --> 01:27:06,925
Speaker 2: What I think the director of photography here, because he's

1605
01:27:06,965 --> 01:27:09,805
Speaker 2: a key collaborator in this Arthur Miller is his name,

1606
01:27:10,205 --> 01:27:14,165
Speaker 2: obviously Richard Llewellen must have portrayed this in the novel.

1607
01:27:15,005 --> 01:27:19,005
Speaker 2: Is the extent to which life, all of life, really,

1608
01:27:19,125 --> 01:27:23,085
Speaker 2: but especially in this village and in small villages like

1609
01:27:23,085 --> 01:27:26,045
Speaker 2: this one, are driven by ritual.

1610
01:27:27,165 --> 01:27:29,365
Speaker 4: Family. Family is ritual.

1611
01:27:29,845 --> 01:27:32,405
Speaker 2: How you get clean after work and prepare for dinner,

1612
01:27:32,805 --> 01:27:39,565
Speaker 2: how you eat dinner. Everyone has a prescribed role and routine.

1613
01:27:39,365 --> 01:27:44,445
Speaker 2: What weekends are like in the Morgan home church is ritual.

1614
01:27:44,845 --> 01:27:49,165
Speaker 2: What you get dressed to wear, where you sit, how

1615
01:27:49,205 --> 01:27:54,285
Speaker 2: you pray, work, work of course at the coal mine

1616
01:27:54,765 --> 01:27:56,965
Speaker 2: is ritual. And even if you're not going to work

1617
01:27:57,045 --> 01:27:58,644
Speaker 2: in the coal mine, if you're one of the wives

1618
01:27:58,685 --> 01:28:01,245
Speaker 2: who stays home, you have your ritual. You have your

1619
01:28:01,365 --> 01:28:04,365
Speaker 2: routine where you put the boots out, and the lunch,

1620
01:28:04,525 --> 01:28:07,005
Speaker 2: the breakfast you prepare, and the lunch you prepare. But

1621
01:28:07,165 --> 01:28:09,845
Speaker 2: it's all routine, right, ritual up the hill, down the hill,

1622
01:28:10,245 --> 01:28:13,765
Speaker 2: down the mine, up the mine, clock in, clock out.

1623
01:28:13,965 --> 01:28:16,405
Speaker 2: At the end of the week, you get in line,

1624
01:28:16,485 --> 01:28:19,725
Speaker 2: you get paid. You sing songs on the way up

1625
01:28:19,765 --> 01:28:22,325
Speaker 2: the hill, you sing songs down the hill, you sing

1626
01:28:22,405 --> 01:28:26,685
Speaker 2: songs at church, you sing songs at weddings. And what

1627
01:28:27,805 --> 01:28:31,445
Speaker 2: the movie reckons with then, of course, and this goes

1628
01:28:31,485 --> 01:28:34,564
Speaker 2: back to the title and the opening narration, is what

1629
01:28:34,845 --> 01:28:41,365
Speaker 2: happens when those rituals are disrupted and eventually are discarded forever,

1630
01:28:42,045 --> 01:28:47,405
Speaker 2: as they ultimately, inevitably always are going to be that loss.

1631
01:28:48,045 --> 01:28:50,405
Speaker 2: And I think I think it's not just in the material.

1632
01:28:50,445 --> 01:28:52,165
Speaker 2: What I'm arguing, Josh, is that it's not just in

1633
01:28:52,245 --> 01:28:56,405
Speaker 2: the material, clearly it is. I think it's how acutely

1634
01:28:56,485 --> 01:29:01,564
Speaker 2: Forward shows it, how he draws our attention to it.

1635
01:29:01,565 --> 01:29:05,525
Speaker 2: It's in the deep focus, the use of the depth

1636
01:29:05,565 --> 01:29:09,525
Speaker 2: of field, and the takes aren't exceptionally long, like he's

1637
01:29:09,525 --> 01:29:14,805
Speaker 2: not drawing your attention to a bunch of ostentatious takes right,

1638
01:29:14,925 --> 01:29:16,965
Speaker 2: or the camera's doing a lot of movement, But the

1639
01:29:17,005 --> 01:29:21,245
Speaker 2: takes are long enough that we we sit with these characters,

1640
01:29:21,645 --> 01:29:25,925
Speaker 2: we observe, we see the landscape here again, the depth

1641
01:29:26,085 --> 01:29:30,685
Speaker 2: of the landscape around the village, the village itself. I

1642
01:29:30,685 --> 01:29:35,205
Speaker 2: felt like I knew the topography of this entire place,

1643
01:29:35,365 --> 01:29:39,564
Speaker 2: like I knew where everyone lived, ever in relation to

1644
01:29:39,685 --> 01:29:44,485
Speaker 2: each other, right the distance between the coal mine and

1645
01:29:44,725 --> 01:29:49,045
Speaker 2: Evore's home and the Morgan home. I knew the landscape

1646
01:29:49,085 --> 01:29:54,205
Speaker 2: of the Morgan house. And more importantly than within all

1647
01:29:54,245 --> 01:29:58,085
Speaker 2: of that, it was about watching human behavior, and watching

1648
01:29:58,165 --> 01:30:01,645
Speaker 2: the human behavior in all those spaces, within all of

1649
01:30:01,645 --> 01:30:04,005
Speaker 2: those rituals. And I think that's what I just kept

1650
01:30:04,845 --> 01:30:08,445
Speaker 2: coming back to and what I kept being so moved by.

1651
01:30:08,565 --> 01:30:12,845
Speaker 2: It was just even like the physicality in the gestures

1652
01:30:12,925 --> 01:30:15,645
Speaker 2: and the repetition of those things, and the repetition of

1653
01:30:15,685 --> 01:30:20,485
Speaker 2: certain phrases, it just seemed to so understand and capture

1654
01:30:21,085 --> 01:30:24,684
Speaker 2: the rhythms of life. And and it's one of those cases

1655
01:30:24,725 --> 01:30:28,125
Speaker 2: where and lots of people have said this, and I've

1656
01:30:28,125 --> 01:30:29,845
Speaker 2: said it here on the show too, Right, I think

1657
01:30:29,885 --> 01:30:32,405
Speaker 2: it's I think it is a universal truth that the

1658
01:30:32,405 --> 01:30:36,645
Speaker 2: more specific something is, the more general it is, the

1659
01:30:36,645 --> 01:30:40,925
Speaker 2: more universal it is. And the more specific this movie

1660
01:30:41,005 --> 01:30:44,365
Speaker 2: is in capturing what life was like at this time

1661
01:30:44,485 --> 01:30:48,285
Speaker 2: for these people in this specific place, the more it

1662
01:30:48,365 --> 01:30:51,365
Speaker 2: felt applicable to me in my own life, even even

1663
01:30:51,365 --> 01:30:54,805
Speaker 2: though I can't relate in any direct way to these

1664
01:30:54,885 --> 01:30:57,684
Speaker 2: characters who are working every day in a coal mine.

1665
01:30:57,725 --> 01:31:01,085
Speaker 2: Nevertheless I felt it, you know, I felt what these

1666
01:31:01,165 --> 01:31:03,325
Speaker 2: characters were going through, and I felt like I could

1667
01:31:03,365 --> 01:31:06,245
Speaker 2: relate to it in my own in my own life.

1668
01:31:07,965 --> 01:31:11,245
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, your discussion of richual just

1669
01:31:11,285 --> 01:31:14,644
Speaker 1: opened up for me why I responded to this movie

1670
01:31:15,365 --> 01:31:17,965
Speaker 1: initially the first time I saw maybe I don't know,

1671
01:31:18,325 --> 01:31:24,045
Speaker 1: six years ago, now so deeply as I did, which, Yeah,

1672
01:31:24,085 --> 01:31:26,085
Speaker 1: I'm going to give the back of my brain a

1673
01:31:26,085 --> 01:31:29,445
Speaker 1: little time to process and then i'll express. But I

1674
01:31:29,565 --> 01:31:31,885
Speaker 1: want to go in another direction right now, because part

1675
01:31:31,925 --> 01:31:37,005
Speaker 1: of that ritual you mentioned was the songs, and that

1676
01:31:37,045 --> 01:31:38,765
Speaker 1: stood out to me the first time, and this time

1677
01:31:38,765 --> 01:31:41,725
Speaker 1: I thought, I think by the third time, characters were

1678
01:31:41,765 --> 01:31:47,165
Speaker 1: actively singing in character. These aren't like we have moments

1679
01:31:47,205 --> 01:31:51,085
Speaker 1: where we hear the characters singing kind of on the soundtrack, right,

1680
01:31:52,525 --> 01:31:56,005
Speaker 1: but there are so many moments where characters on the

1681
01:31:56,085 --> 01:31:58,644
Speaker 1: screen are actively singing, which is part of the ritual

1682
01:31:58,685 --> 01:32:02,445
Speaker 1: you discussed. And by the second or third one on

1683
01:32:02,485 --> 01:32:03,885
Speaker 1: this Viewing at them, I was like, I'm going to

1684
01:32:03,965 --> 01:32:07,805
Speaker 1: count these because I'm just curious how many we have.

1685
01:32:07,965 --> 01:32:11,005
Speaker 1: And so this comes. This ranges from what you said

1686
01:32:11,005 --> 01:32:14,685
Speaker 1: coming home from the Minds to a wedding where the

1687
01:32:14,685 --> 01:32:17,285
Speaker 1: people are singing at the wedding that night, at the

1688
01:32:17,285 --> 01:32:22,005
Speaker 1: wedding party, the Morgan father doing his walking the line

1689
01:32:22,125 --> 01:32:26,925
Speaker 1: drunken song and singing on the way to church. I mean,

1690
01:32:26,925 --> 01:32:47,684
Speaker 1: there's just singing throughout this movie. Just over under guests

1691
01:32:47,685 --> 01:32:50,405
Speaker 1: for me are there. I'm gonna put the over under it.

1692
01:32:50,565 --> 01:32:54,764
Speaker 1: Six songs where characters are actively singing in a scene.

1693
01:32:55,925 --> 01:32:58,325
Speaker 4: I mean, I will go over. That feels like it

1694
01:32:58,365 --> 01:32:58,965
Speaker 4: has to be over.

1695
01:32:59,365 --> 01:33:01,604
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think if I may have missed one or two,

1696
01:33:01,645 --> 01:33:04,885
Speaker 1: but it was ten, to my account, ten times where

1697
01:33:04,925 --> 01:33:11,125
Speaker 1: this is a central element of a sequence. And I

1698
01:33:11,165 --> 01:33:13,405
Speaker 1: think that speaks to a couple of things. I think

1699
01:33:13,405 --> 01:33:17,525
Speaker 1: it speaks to the ritual aspect, which you astutely pointed out.

1700
01:33:18,125 --> 01:33:20,724
Speaker 1: I think it also speaks to one of the general

1701
01:33:20,805 --> 01:33:26,485
Speaker 1: themes of this movie, which is the individual versus the community.

1702
01:33:27,525 --> 01:33:32,165
Speaker 1: And notice that all of these songs are group songs.

1703
01:33:32,685 --> 01:33:36,085
Speaker 1: There are no solos, so every one of these is

1704
01:33:36,125 --> 01:33:41,805
Speaker 1: the community of some sort singing together. The compositions in

1705
01:33:41,845 --> 01:33:48,285
Speaker 1: this picture and the emphasis on communal compositions. So when

1706
01:33:48,285 --> 01:33:51,604
Speaker 1: the mine workers are reading that notice that's posted about

1707
01:33:51,605 --> 01:33:56,125
Speaker 1: their wages being reduced, and it's not just one guy

1708
01:33:56,405 --> 01:34:00,805
Speaker 1: reading it and then turning around and shouting, hey, our wages,

1709
01:34:01,325 --> 01:34:07,285
Speaker 1: it's like forty men. They're coal dusted hats in the frame,

1710
01:34:07,605 --> 01:34:10,525
Speaker 1: all looking at the sign, right. And you can have

1711
01:34:10,645 --> 01:34:13,805
Speaker 1: the many times guests come to the Morgan's house. This

1712
01:34:13,925 --> 01:34:16,325
Speaker 1: is the central family. We haven't given much of the plot,

1713
01:34:16,365 --> 01:34:20,165
Speaker 1: but it basically centers around one family in this town

1714
01:34:20,285 --> 01:34:22,885
Speaker 1: of I don't know, maybe six brothers. I think it

1715
01:34:22,965 --> 01:34:25,725
Speaker 1: might be in one sister, and it's through the perspective

1716
01:34:25,765 --> 01:34:28,965
Speaker 1: of the youngest brother, Hugh, all the times that people

1717
01:34:29,045 --> 01:34:32,125
Speaker 1: gather in their home, and then of course the church

1718
01:34:32,165 --> 01:34:35,845
Speaker 1: scenes congregants at church. There was a striking moment on

1719
01:34:35,925 --> 01:34:38,485
Speaker 1: this view at them that was a contrast to this,

1720
01:34:39,325 --> 01:34:42,564
Speaker 1: to this, all these communal shots. And remember when the

1721
01:34:42,605 --> 01:34:45,085
Speaker 1: brothers this is talk of a union for me, and

1722
01:34:45,125 --> 01:34:47,485
Speaker 1: the father of this family is against it because he's

1723
01:34:47,525 --> 01:34:52,085
Speaker 1: a traditionalist, many reasons he doesn't approve of this. The sons,

1724
01:34:52,125 --> 01:34:54,965
Speaker 1: the grown sons are all in favor, and they have

1725
01:34:55,005 --> 01:34:57,564
Speaker 1: a dinner argument over the dinner table, and the sons

1726
01:34:57,605 --> 01:35:01,965
Speaker 1: stand up in one by one leave and there is

1727
01:35:02,005 --> 01:35:06,405
Speaker 1: a single shot of the father, Morgan, by himself, and

1728
01:35:06,445 --> 01:35:10,165
Speaker 1: then we cut to a shot of all alone Hugh,

1729
01:35:10,645 --> 01:35:14,684
Speaker 1: the youngest son, who's our perspective, and the father says

1730
01:35:14,685 --> 01:35:17,045
Speaker 1: to him, yes, my son, I know you are there,

1731
01:35:18,125 --> 01:35:24,205
Speaker 1: And just that emphasizes that the importance of community, because

1732
01:35:24,245 --> 01:35:26,725
Speaker 1: the father wants to desperately hold on to the one

1733
01:35:26,765 --> 01:35:31,325
Speaker 1: person who is still with him. Individualism, even to the

1734
01:35:31,405 --> 01:35:35,765
Speaker 1: father in holding his perspective, is not as valuable as

1735
01:35:35,845 --> 01:35:40,325
Speaker 1: communal agreement is. And ritual is a part of that.

1736
01:35:40,725 --> 01:35:44,005
Speaker 1: As you said, ritual holds that together. And I think, Adam,

1737
01:35:44,205 --> 01:35:47,845
Speaker 1: as you know, why should this movie affect me so much.

1738
01:35:48,365 --> 01:35:51,445
Speaker 1: It's in another country, in another time. From the research

1739
01:35:51,485 --> 01:35:53,564
Speaker 1: I've done, it may not even be that accurate to

1740
01:35:53,605 --> 01:35:55,845
Speaker 1: what it's what it was like to mine in a

1741
01:35:55,885 --> 01:35:59,445
Speaker 1: Welsh village at that time. Right. The author apparently did

1742
01:35:59,445 --> 01:36:02,005
Speaker 1: not come from that background. And sure you know this

1743
01:36:02,085 --> 01:36:02,285
Speaker 1: is what.

1744
01:36:02,285 --> 01:36:03,725
Speaker 4: I've totally romanticized.

1745
01:36:03,845 --> 01:36:08,564
Speaker 1: Yeah, romanticized, thank you. But I come from a family

1746
01:36:08,685 --> 01:36:15,005
Speaker 1: who for three generations had the same rituals tied to

1747
01:36:15,085 --> 01:36:20,365
Speaker 1: these things, and my generation is when that has been broken,

1748
01:36:21,205 --> 01:36:25,285
Speaker 1: and it's been broken for reasons, a whole bunch of reasons.

1749
01:36:25,965 --> 01:36:28,525
Speaker 1: I don't need to get into. They're not all negative reasons.

1750
01:36:28,525 --> 01:36:32,245
Speaker 1: They're good reasons, they're necessary reasons, they're practical reasons, they're

1751
01:36:32,285 --> 01:36:36,325
Speaker 1: cultural reasons, they're political reasons. I mean, you know, I'm

1752
01:36:36,325 --> 01:36:40,005
Speaker 1: not trying to draw a stark line. I'm not saying

1753
01:36:40,005 --> 01:36:44,005
Speaker 1: it didn't need to happen, but it happened. And so

1754
01:36:44,365 --> 01:36:47,804
Speaker 1: I look back at a movie like this and it's like, Wow,

1755
01:36:48,805 --> 01:36:50,965
Speaker 1: this is the sort of stuff that's been lost now.

1756
01:36:51,005 --> 01:36:52,845
Speaker 1: I will also say what I like about this movie

1757
01:36:52,845 --> 01:36:57,564
Speaker 1: is it's not purely nostalgic. It's not just glamorizing that.

1758
01:36:57,645 --> 01:37:01,845
Speaker 1: It is also recognizing the difficulties the losses that happen

1759
01:37:01,965 --> 01:37:06,405
Speaker 1: within those rituals. So, to go back to your early

1760
01:37:06,485 --> 01:37:11,125
Speaker 1: response about your perception of this movie, you could see

1761
01:37:11,125 --> 01:37:15,125
Speaker 1: why it was considered corny, and some elements might be corny.

1762
01:37:15,165 --> 01:37:17,724
Speaker 1: It's very sincere, but I don't think it's naive.

1763
01:37:18,325 --> 01:37:18,485
Speaker 4: No.

1764
01:37:18,525 --> 01:37:22,684
Speaker 1: I think it's also a very wh eyed movie about

1765
01:37:23,365 --> 01:37:27,845
Speaker 1: the losses that come even to a community that tries

1766
01:37:27,885 --> 01:37:31,125
Speaker 1: to stay together through ritual, So I think it's I

1767
01:37:31,165 --> 01:37:33,205
Speaker 1: think it's pretty sophisticated on that front.

1768
01:37:33,645 --> 01:37:37,645
Speaker 2: I agree, because it understands that it can't hold, that

1769
01:37:37,685 --> 01:37:40,325
Speaker 2: it can't hold. It's impossible that no matter how hard

1770
01:37:40,365 --> 01:37:45,885
Speaker 2: you try, that it will fade, that these rituals and

1771
01:37:45,925 --> 01:37:52,525
Speaker 2: that the family unit will will eventually have to disband.

1772
01:37:53,245 --> 01:37:57,525
Speaker 2: The things you cling to as the touchstones of your

1773
01:37:57,565 --> 01:38:00,325
Speaker 2: youth will fade. And in that way, I don't think

1774
01:38:00,365 --> 01:38:01,885
Speaker 2: it is I don't think it is naive.

1775
01:38:01,925 --> 01:38:02,604
Speaker 4: And Josh, I'll.

1776
01:38:02,485 --> 01:38:05,885
Speaker 2: Say too to your point, even you know, I'll just

1777
01:38:05,925 --> 01:38:09,045
Speaker 2: say this generally because I think I can say it

1778
01:38:09,165 --> 01:38:11,445
Speaker 2: somewhat from my own experience, but also other families that

1779
01:38:11,485 --> 01:38:15,884
Speaker 2: I know. If even if you're someone who has overall,

1780
01:38:15,925 --> 01:38:17,725
Speaker 2: if you think back on your childhood and you don't

1781
01:38:17,765 --> 01:38:20,765
Speaker 2: necessarily think about it like it was all sunshine and

1782
01:38:20,845 --> 01:38:24,405
Speaker 2: road is maybe the family was mostly dysfunctional.

1783
01:38:24,685 --> 01:38:25,245
Speaker 4: It wasn't.

1784
01:38:25,325 --> 01:38:28,005
Speaker 2: Let's just say it wasn't. The Morgan household for the

1785
01:38:28,005 --> 01:38:31,845
Speaker 2: most part, right right where you know, everybody seems to

1786
01:38:31,845 --> 01:38:35,765
Speaker 2: have gotten along with each other great and and there's

1787
01:38:35,845 --> 01:38:38,365
Speaker 2: there's just pure, pure love and for the most part

1788
01:38:38,365 --> 01:38:43,405
Speaker 2: it seems bliss in this home when when those people

1789
01:38:43,685 --> 01:38:47,205
Speaker 2: when you get together, what are the things you reminisce about,

1790
01:38:47,245 --> 01:38:49,165
Speaker 2: and what do you talk about and think about fondly?

1791
01:38:49,565 --> 01:38:53,205
Speaker 2: You think about You think about the rituals. You think

1792
01:38:53,245 --> 01:38:58,085
Speaker 2: about dinners, You think about the Saturday mornings. You think

1793
01:38:58,085 --> 01:39:00,885
Speaker 2: about the things that you remember that we did as

1794
01:39:00,925 --> 01:39:05,245
Speaker 2: a unit that were always the same, Yeah, that were consistent.

1795
01:39:05,725 --> 01:39:05,885
Speaker 4: Right.

1796
01:39:06,205 --> 01:39:08,245
Speaker 2: Remember when Dad always did this?

1797
01:39:08,605 --> 01:39:08,805
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1798
01:39:08,845 --> 01:39:13,405
Speaker 2: Remember when Sheila whoever always would do this. Right. Those

1799
01:39:13,405 --> 01:39:15,885
Speaker 2: are the things you you remember, Those are the things

1800
01:39:15,885 --> 01:39:19,005
Speaker 2: you think about. I think it's really it's really poignant.

1801
01:39:19,085 --> 01:39:21,205
Speaker 2: In this movie, for example, there are two points. It's

1802
01:39:21,245 --> 01:39:24,085
Speaker 2: where two of the older brother the two oldest in

1803
01:39:24,125 --> 01:39:27,924
Speaker 2: the family, who to your point earlier, are at odds

1804
01:39:27,925 --> 01:39:34,684
Speaker 2: with their their father, and they at these two moments

1805
01:39:35,365 --> 01:39:37,805
Speaker 2: say to their dad and one time he obliges him,

1806
01:39:37,805 --> 01:39:41,005
Speaker 2: one time he doesn't. But they say to him, you know, dad,

1807
01:39:41,005 --> 01:39:44,005
Speaker 2: would you read us a verse from from the Bible?

1808
01:39:44,565 --> 01:39:45,405
Speaker 4: And they don't.

1809
01:39:45,685 --> 01:39:47,684
Speaker 2: I think it's pretty clear at this point, like they're

1810
01:39:47,685 --> 01:39:50,604
Speaker 2: not believers. One of them is definitely not a believer.

1811
01:39:50,725 --> 01:39:52,684
Speaker 2: We know that for sure, based on something he said

1812
01:39:52,725 --> 01:39:55,325
Speaker 2: earlier in the movie. They're not even believers.

1813
01:39:55,645 --> 01:39:56,045
Speaker 4: It's not.

1814
01:39:56,205 --> 01:39:59,285
Speaker 2: It's not because they they want to be comforted by

1815
01:39:59,845 --> 01:40:02,805
Speaker 2: the word of God in that moment. They they want

1816
01:40:02,845 --> 01:40:06,405
Speaker 2: to be comforted by their father. They want to be

1817
01:40:06,485 --> 01:40:09,604
Speaker 2: comforted by the ritual of their dad getting the book

1818
01:40:09,605 --> 01:40:13,045
Speaker 2: out and reading to them. That's what's important.

1819
01:40:12,645 --> 01:40:17,405
Speaker 1: To them and to him. Right, It's that's offering to him.

1820
01:40:17,565 --> 01:40:19,925
Speaker 4: That's it. You're right, right, So you're right.

1821
01:40:19,925 --> 01:40:22,285
Speaker 2: The ritual matters to the them even more maybe to

1822
01:40:22,325 --> 01:40:25,365
Speaker 2: the parents, right in that in that instance, especially at

1823
01:40:25,365 --> 01:40:27,165
Speaker 2: the end of the film. But to go to your

1824
01:40:27,165 --> 01:40:29,885
Speaker 2: point too about singing, Right, so then you think about

1825
01:40:29,965 --> 01:40:32,604
Speaker 2: not only the consistency of ritual and routine, but then

1826
01:40:33,045 --> 01:40:36,045
Speaker 2: how important, how striking in this film are then the

1827
01:40:36,085 --> 01:40:40,525
Speaker 2: discrepancies or the deviations from it. Yes, the moment when

1828
01:40:41,245 --> 01:40:44,604
Speaker 2: there should be singing and there isn't when on Horrid

1829
01:40:44,685 --> 01:40:48,685
Speaker 2: gets married, Yes, yeah, and on Hard gets married and

1830
01:40:48,685 --> 01:40:51,885
Speaker 2: she walks out of the church and nobody is singing,

1831
01:40:52,205 --> 01:40:55,125
Speaker 2: and and and the father has to say to die

1832
01:40:55,205 --> 01:40:58,325
Speaker 2: Bondo and all the men standing outside, who would normally

1833
01:40:58,365 --> 01:41:03,564
Speaker 2: be rejoicing and all be in unison singing, you know,

1834
01:41:03,925 --> 01:41:06,005
Speaker 2: greeting them as they come out of the church. He

1835
01:41:06,445 --> 01:41:09,684
Speaker 2: has to say to him something like, what you can't

1836
01:41:10,245 --> 01:41:13,604
Speaker 2: you can't greet my daughter with the song? My daughter's

1837
01:41:13,605 --> 01:41:16,685
Speaker 2: wedding doesn't doesn't deserve a song. Is there be no

1838
01:41:16,805 --> 01:41:37,045
Speaker 2: singing for my daughter's wedding? Dabundo. It's very somber, and

1839
01:41:37,125 --> 01:41:40,445
Speaker 2: it is right, and it's It isn't explicitly stated, but

1840
01:41:40,485 --> 01:41:43,885
Speaker 2: I think it's pretty clear that a couple of things. One,

1841
01:41:43,965 --> 01:41:46,925
Speaker 2: I think they have a general idea that on Horrid,

1842
01:41:47,045 --> 01:41:51,765
Speaker 2: based on her demeanor and her her overall appearance, this

1843
01:41:51,845 --> 01:41:54,525
Speaker 2: isn't a marriage of love that she she this is.

1844
01:41:54,605 --> 01:41:57,845
Speaker 2: This doesn't seem like like like Evor and Bronwin's wedding.

1845
01:41:57,885 --> 01:42:00,885
Speaker 2: This doesn't seem like a marriage where they are they

1846
01:42:00,885 --> 01:42:03,125
Speaker 2: are actually in love with each other, even though Evre

1847
01:42:03,165 --> 01:42:05,285
Speaker 2: seems like a bit of a you know, I don't know,

1848
01:42:06,805 --> 01:42:09,125
Speaker 2: maybe not the most exciting man. They are in love

1849
01:42:09,245 --> 01:42:10,365
Speaker 2: with each other, we should.

1850
01:42:10,165 --> 01:42:11,965
Speaker 1: Say, just for plot, for those who haven't seen it,

1851
01:42:12,005 --> 01:42:16,245
Speaker 1: she's marrying the coal miners owner, the coal the coal

1852
01:42:16,445 --> 01:42:18,285
Speaker 1: mine owner's son, so.

1853
01:42:18,245 --> 01:42:21,845
Speaker 2: Basically up in class, up in class. So that's the thing.

1854
01:42:22,125 --> 01:42:24,605
Speaker 2: Part of it is, I think they have picked up

1855
01:42:24,645 --> 01:42:27,125
Speaker 2: on the fact that even on Horrid's not happy, but

1856
01:42:27,285 --> 01:42:31,205
Speaker 2: beyond that, and more significantly, that she's marrying up in class,

1857
01:42:31,445 --> 01:42:35,125
Speaker 2: that there is a distrust right and a mistrust generally

1858
01:42:35,205 --> 01:42:40,325
Speaker 2: around the land the coal mines owner and then appropriately

1859
01:42:40,365 --> 01:42:43,045
Speaker 2: his son as well, and so they're not singing. So

1860
01:42:43,085 --> 01:42:46,445
Speaker 2: when there are deviations from the ritual that that also

1861
01:42:46,525 --> 01:42:50,005
Speaker 2: has a power. But Ford's camera he captures that, the

1862
01:42:50,005 --> 01:42:54,325
Speaker 2: screenplay captures that makes note of that. We then as

1863
01:42:54,445 --> 01:42:58,845
Speaker 2: viewers are drawn to that, and it again has a

1864
01:42:58,845 --> 01:43:00,845
Speaker 2: real power. And I don't want to keep I don't

1865
01:43:00,845 --> 01:43:03,125
Speaker 2: want to keep this last time I'll do it. I

1866
01:43:03,165 --> 01:43:05,885
Speaker 2: don't want to keep killing Weathering Heights. But which movie

1867
01:43:05,925 --> 01:43:08,525
Speaker 2: felt to me more appropriate as a Valentine's Day watch?

1868
01:43:08,565 --> 01:43:11,804
Speaker 2: I have to be honest. I know that there's romance

1869
01:43:11,805 --> 01:43:14,724
Speaker 2: and Weathering Heights. That is, obviously the romance is more

1870
01:43:14,805 --> 01:43:17,845
Speaker 2: requited than it is here. But Josh, I'm just telling

1871
01:43:17,845 --> 01:43:21,205
Speaker 2: you point blank, I am not exaggerating when I say

1872
01:43:21,445 --> 01:43:25,805
Speaker 2: that I think there's there's more romantic tension and more

1873
01:43:26,205 --> 01:43:31,405
Speaker 2: heat in any one of Marino Harre's stolen glances at

1874
01:43:31,405 --> 01:43:36,844
Speaker 2: Walter Pigeon the Reverend in Town than there is between Margot,

1875
01:43:36,885 --> 01:43:39,685
Speaker 2: Robbie and Jacob Elordi at any point in Wuthering Heights.

1876
01:43:39,445 --> 01:43:41,604
Speaker 1: The hot reverend there he is.

1877
01:43:42,485 --> 01:43:48,405
Speaker 2: They're yearning for each other, Josh. It is so chaste

1878
01:43:48,445 --> 01:43:51,604
Speaker 2: and so sexy, and part of it is again how

1879
01:43:51,685 --> 01:43:54,925
Speaker 2: how the camera works too, when when they get really

1880
01:43:54,925 --> 01:43:57,644
Speaker 2: close to each other, and then how the camera backs

1881
01:43:57,645 --> 01:44:01,125
Speaker 2: away and sometimes and shows us how it gives, you know,

1882
01:44:01,285 --> 01:44:04,045
Speaker 2: sort of a room for them to be near each

1883
01:44:04,045 --> 01:44:06,405
Speaker 2: other and maybe even shows a little bit of reverence

1884
01:44:06,485 --> 01:44:09,125
Speaker 2: for them in that in that moment. It's probably so

1885
01:44:09,245 --> 01:44:11,965
Speaker 2: sexy though, because it's so chaste, Like, I don't think

1886
01:44:11,965 --> 01:44:15,365
Speaker 2: there's there's ever really a doubt with these characters that

1887
01:44:15,445 --> 01:44:19,925
Speaker 2: discretion and duty will rule the day. Sure, and that

1888
01:44:20,045 --> 01:44:24,205
Speaker 2: just made me want them to be together even more. Honestly,

1889
01:44:24,285 --> 01:44:26,805
Speaker 2: parts of parts of them looking at each other, that

1890
01:44:26,925 --> 01:44:27,845
Speaker 2: took my breath away.

1891
01:44:28,205 --> 01:44:30,445
Speaker 1: Yeah, Ohara and Pigeon are so good in this. And

1892
01:44:30,485 --> 01:44:34,045
Speaker 1: it's the in the mood for love principle rights, it's

1893
01:44:34,165 --> 01:44:38,925
Speaker 1: the reticence, the which you know, we didn't get into

1894
01:44:38,965 --> 01:44:41,845
Speaker 1: this in We're Bothering Heights, and honestly like that, it's

1895
01:44:42,005 --> 01:44:44,005
Speaker 1: it's hard to really compare these two films, but it

1896
01:44:44,085 --> 01:44:48,525
Speaker 1: is the whole Catherine Heathcliff get it on montage, which

1897
01:44:49,165 --> 01:44:53,525
Speaker 1: is entirely imposed on you know, doesn't happen in the book,

1898
01:44:53,565 --> 01:44:58,005
Speaker 1: let's just say. But even independent of that is is yes,

1899
01:44:58,245 --> 01:45:02,285
Speaker 1: like not a lot of heat. But here I agree

1900
01:45:02,325 --> 01:45:04,925
Speaker 1: with you, partly in the performance, partly in the filmmaking

1901
01:45:05,485 --> 01:45:09,205
Speaker 1: in terms of and Harden and Ohia's character and that

1902
01:45:09,365 --> 01:45:11,485
Speaker 1: scene you were talking about where they're not singing or

1903
01:45:11,485 --> 01:45:15,125
Speaker 1: they're reluctantly singing after her wedding. You know, we've been

1904
01:45:15,125 --> 01:45:19,125
Speaker 1: talking a lot about thematic and resonance in this movie,

1905
01:45:19,165 --> 01:45:24,125
Speaker 1: but in terms of the visuals, the sequence, the shot

1906
01:45:24,285 --> 01:45:27,045
Speaker 1: I think of is when she's walking out of the

1907
01:45:27,125 --> 01:45:30,405
Speaker 1: church with her new husband that she and everyone else

1908
01:45:30,405 --> 01:45:34,725
Speaker 1: in the village disapproves of, and her wedding veil is

1909
01:45:35,365 --> 01:45:40,965
Speaker 1: literally trying to escape like the wind. It's this long

1910
01:45:41,205 --> 01:45:45,445
Speaker 1: veil is like pulling it off her head. And it's

1911
01:45:45,645 --> 01:45:47,885
Speaker 1: the way I read it is like, if you're not

1912
01:45:47,925 --> 01:45:50,684
Speaker 1: going to get out of this marriage, I am right.

1913
01:45:51,405 --> 01:45:54,525
Speaker 1: And yeah, just that visual touch. I mean, this movie

1914
01:45:54,565 --> 01:45:57,885
Speaker 1: is gorgeous, we have to say. And I was trying

1915
01:45:57,885 --> 01:45:59,845
Speaker 1: to figure out I wish I had found I ran

1916
01:45:59,885 --> 01:46:03,325
Speaker 1: out of time to do more research how did Ford

1917
01:46:03,405 --> 01:46:10,365
Speaker 1: get these shots of As you said, topographically, we know

1918
01:46:10,405 --> 01:46:13,245
Speaker 1: where everything is, but we even have a sense beyond it,

1919
01:46:13,285 --> 01:46:18,644
Speaker 1: of the hills beyond this village. And I did find

1920
01:46:18,845 --> 01:46:21,644
Speaker 1: that this came from an article on the TC website

1921
01:46:21,645 --> 01:46:25,604
Speaker 1: by Frank Miller that basically there was a plot near

1922
01:46:25,685 --> 01:46:30,724
Speaker 1: Malibu that they turned into many acres into this Welsh

1923
01:46:30,765 --> 01:46:34,285
Speaker 1: mining village. Okay, so it's all in California. They chose

1924
01:46:34,325 --> 01:46:37,125
Speaker 1: to shot in black and white because if they'd done color,

1925
01:46:37,805 --> 01:46:41,764
Speaker 1: it would not have matched the lushness of the greenery

1926
01:46:41,805 --> 01:46:45,965
Speaker 1: of Wales. What I couldn't find is, I don't think

1927
01:46:46,005 --> 01:46:50,765
Speaker 1: there are matte paintings involved for those backdrops, But I

1928
01:46:50,765 --> 01:46:55,804
Speaker 1: couldn't find how they got in this location that depth

1929
01:46:56,085 --> 01:46:59,085
Speaker 1: of what is beyond this village. It doesn't have the

1930
01:47:00,045 --> 01:47:04,685
Speaker 1: claustrophobia and the quaintness. Maybe this is why it resonates universally,

1931
01:47:05,165 --> 01:47:07,005
Speaker 1: is because this is a film that it takes a

1932
01:47:07,045 --> 01:47:10,045
Speaker 1: place entirely except for maybe the scenes where young Hugh

1933
01:47:10,125 --> 01:47:13,525
Speaker 1: goes off to school to another town, otherwise entirely in

1934
01:47:13,605 --> 01:47:16,045
Speaker 1: this village. But we do still have a sense of

1935
01:47:16,045 --> 01:47:20,445
Speaker 1: the wider world beyond. And maybe how it's how there.

1936
01:47:21,125 --> 01:47:25,845
Speaker 1: They're contained, yes within it, you know, yes, and just pictorially.

1937
01:47:26,765 --> 01:47:31,205
Speaker 1: I don't know how they managed to do that, but

1938
01:47:31,365 --> 01:47:33,725
Speaker 1: it's it's just a gorgeous picture.

1939
01:47:33,925 --> 01:47:34,725
Speaker 4: No it is.

1940
01:47:34,765 --> 01:47:38,445
Speaker 2: And there there are so many moments that we could

1941
01:47:38,485 --> 01:47:42,565
Speaker 2: just say, let's look at this and try to decipher

1942
01:47:43,005 --> 01:47:47,045
Speaker 2: or diagram exactly how they did it. Maybe the shot

1943
01:47:47,365 --> 01:47:50,485
Speaker 2: Josh that I remember most though, that I want to

1944
01:47:50,565 --> 01:47:53,564
Speaker 2: go back and really break down. How about the church

1945
01:47:53,645 --> 01:47:59,525
Speaker 2: sequence with the deacons when they cast out the woman

1946
01:47:59,805 --> 01:48:02,445
Speaker 2: who's gotten pregnant and had a baby out of wedlock.

1947
01:48:03,005 --> 01:48:08,125
Speaker 2: The way Ford shoots that scene when that woman gets

1948
01:48:08,285 --> 01:48:11,724
Speaker 2: called up, he's using a little bit of a high angle,

1949
01:48:12,405 --> 01:48:16,725
Speaker 2: and so the diagonal provides this this like steepness and

1950
01:48:16,845 --> 01:48:21,365
Speaker 2: severity to it. And you're already in church and then

1951
01:48:21,445 --> 01:48:25,085
Speaker 2: and then there's there's shadows, and the way the way

1952
01:48:25,325 --> 01:48:28,205
Speaker 2: everyone in church is facing her and she already seems

1953
01:48:28,245 --> 01:48:32,085
Speaker 2: so small. Then yeah, the perspective right, there's like a

1954
01:48:32,125 --> 01:48:35,045
Speaker 2: focal length and the perspective of her having to walk

1955
01:48:35,765 --> 01:48:39,285
Speaker 2: towards the deacons, the use of shadows there, everything it is.

1956
01:48:39,685 --> 01:48:42,485
Speaker 2: It's harrowing. It's harrowing, and it's just a it's just

1957
01:48:42,525 --> 01:48:44,645
Speaker 2: a shot. I don't think the camera moves, you know,

1958
01:48:44,685 --> 01:48:48,564
Speaker 2: but it's just all in the framing and the lighting.

1959
01:48:48,605 --> 01:48:50,285
Speaker 2: And there's so many moments like that. And you know,

1960
01:48:50,885 --> 01:48:53,645
Speaker 2: Greg Tolan, everybody thinks of Toland and Citizen Kane, and

1961
01:48:53,725 --> 01:48:56,205
Speaker 2: rightfully so. But just like with Kine, there are a

1962
01:48:56,285 --> 01:49:00,125
Speaker 2: bunch of ceiling shots in this movie too, famously with Kane,

1963
01:49:00,285 --> 01:49:05,085
Speaker 2: but constantly the Morgan House, right like emphasizing the structure,

1964
01:49:05,725 --> 01:49:10,685
Speaker 2: emphasizing the foundation of it all, like the authenticity of

1965
01:49:10,725 --> 01:49:13,165
Speaker 2: it all, that this isn't a set, that this shouldn't

1966
01:49:13,165 --> 01:49:15,685
Speaker 2: feel like a set, that this should feel like this

1967
01:49:15,845 --> 01:49:19,365
Speaker 2: real place, existing in this real place, and it it's

1968
01:49:19,445 --> 01:49:21,724
Speaker 2: convincing however they did it, it's convincing.

1969
01:49:22,205 --> 01:49:25,804
Speaker 1: Yeah. And that church sequence with the woman who is shamed,

1970
01:49:26,365 --> 01:49:29,845
Speaker 1: there's also an incredible insert close up of one of

1971
01:49:29,885 --> 01:49:34,765
Speaker 1: the deacons' fingers actively pointing. And I don't know if

1972
01:49:34,765 --> 01:49:38,885
Speaker 1: we get hardly any close ups or insert shots in

1973
01:49:38,925 --> 01:49:42,525
Speaker 1: this movie. It's mostly, as I said, communal group shots

1974
01:49:42,925 --> 01:49:46,604
Speaker 1: or even more expansive of the scenery so that jumps

1975
01:49:46,605 --> 01:49:49,525
Speaker 1: out at you. And that whole sequence too. I think,

1976
01:49:49,685 --> 01:49:53,685
Speaker 1: you know, this movie is probably regarded as you know,

1977
01:49:54,205 --> 01:49:59,245
Speaker 1: maybe pious in some sense, but it's actually pretty sophisticated

1978
01:49:59,285 --> 01:50:04,925
Speaker 1: in its treatment of religious life. It's exposing it as

1979
01:50:05,325 --> 01:50:09,525
Speaker 1: incredibly hypocritical in that sequence, and at the same time

1980
01:50:09,565 --> 01:50:13,285
Speaker 1: it has room for it to be foundational in positive

1981
01:50:13,285 --> 01:50:16,885
Speaker 1: ways for some of the characters. So I mean, how

1982
01:50:16,925 --> 01:50:19,005
Speaker 1: about where else are you going to get a theological

1983
01:50:19,005 --> 01:50:23,645
Speaker 1: debate about unions? We have like the I think it's

1984
01:50:23,685 --> 01:50:26,085
Speaker 1: another deacon who says unions are the work of the devil.

1985
01:50:26,165 --> 01:50:30,405
Speaker 1: And then you have pigeons pastor basically blessing their union

1986
01:50:30,485 --> 01:50:35,165
Speaker 1: but saying, you know, it's not whether or not unions

1987
01:50:35,165 --> 01:50:38,564
Speaker 1: are right, it's how do you conduct your union in

1988
01:50:38,805 --> 01:50:41,125
Speaker 1: are you going to do it justly.

1989
01:50:41,485 --> 01:50:44,365
Speaker 2: While lacking out for your fellow man and those in need?

1990
01:50:44,445 --> 01:50:47,845
Speaker 1: And yes, eggs exactly so. And then oh my gosh,

1991
01:50:47,845 --> 01:50:51,125
Speaker 1: in terms of imagery, I don't want to spoil this

1992
01:50:51,285 --> 01:50:54,725
Speaker 1: because there may be people who hopefully are listening to

1993
01:50:54,765 --> 01:50:57,725
Speaker 1: this and encouraged to check how green was my value out?

1994
01:50:57,725 --> 01:51:01,445
Speaker 1: But two sequences. Let's say where the elevator going down

1995
01:51:01,485 --> 01:51:06,365
Speaker 1: to the mines rises up to the ground level, and

1996
01:51:06,405 --> 01:51:10,125
Speaker 1: in both cases we're awaiting, we're worrying about someone who's

1997
01:51:10,165 --> 01:51:14,405
Speaker 1: been injured or possibly killed, and in both of those

1998
01:51:14,445 --> 01:51:19,445
Speaker 1: instances are evocations of the Pieta image, you know, Mary

1999
01:51:19,485 --> 01:51:24,005
Speaker 1: holding Jesus body, And even though it's used twice, I

2000
01:51:24,045 --> 01:51:29,005
Speaker 1: feel like it's not overdone because it's so beautifully composed,

2001
01:51:29,525 --> 01:51:33,405
Speaker 1: and in each instance I think as well composed in

2002
01:51:33,445 --> 01:51:37,045
Speaker 1: a way that is specific to the characters who are

2003
01:51:37,285 --> 01:51:42,765
Speaker 1: in the composition. So again I'm treading around spoilers, but

2004
01:51:42,885 --> 01:51:48,445
Speaker 1: the way characters are positioned matters because of who the

2005
01:51:48,565 --> 01:51:51,644
Speaker 1: character is and their relationships to each other. Those are

2006
01:51:51,685 --> 01:51:58,245
Speaker 1: just just beautifully beautiful visual but also thematically evocative moments

2007
01:51:58,445 --> 01:51:58,925
Speaker 1: in the movie.

2008
01:51:59,045 --> 01:52:02,005
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are the kind of choices you see throughout

2009
01:52:02,005 --> 01:52:02,965
Speaker 2: the entire film.

2010
01:52:03,125 --> 01:52:04,365
Speaker 4: They all matter.

2011
01:52:04,485 --> 01:52:07,765
Speaker 2: This is why this movie is still significant and still

2012
01:52:07,765 --> 01:52:10,125
Speaker 2: absolutely worth seeing. And we've talked about a few of

2013
01:52:10,125 --> 01:52:14,005
Speaker 2: the performances. I don't know that I have qualms with

2014
01:52:14,045 --> 01:52:16,765
Speaker 2: anybody's performance here. I certainly think that Pigeon's very good,

2015
01:52:16,965 --> 01:52:20,085
Speaker 2: and Marin O'Hara is kind of a revelation, and I

2016
01:52:20,125 --> 01:52:25,405
Speaker 2: love watching the Morgan patriarch and matriarch here, you know,

2017
01:52:25,485 --> 01:52:28,285
Speaker 2: played by us Donald Crisp And I want to make

2018
01:52:28,285 --> 01:52:30,525
Speaker 2: sure O Sarah all Good is as Beth Morgan.

2019
01:52:30,805 --> 01:52:31,165
Speaker 1: So good.

2020
01:52:32,205 --> 01:52:34,285
Speaker 2: They are so good together right again, that they just

2021
01:52:34,365 --> 01:52:40,405
Speaker 2: there's a comfort that immediately makes you believe them as

2022
01:52:41,005 --> 01:52:42,125
Speaker 2: as the head of this family.

2023
01:52:42,365 --> 01:52:45,445
Speaker 1: Right, They've been together, They've been together for one hundred years.

2024
01:52:45,645 --> 01:52:48,805
Speaker 2: They've been together since the beginning of time, Josh, since

2025
01:52:49,045 --> 01:52:49,925
Speaker 2: since Adam and Eve.

2026
01:52:50,045 --> 01:52:50,844
Speaker 4: They've been together.

2027
01:52:51,245 --> 01:52:54,285
Speaker 2: And that that said, that said, it was one of

2028
01:52:54,325 --> 01:52:58,045
Speaker 2: those cases where I'm looking at the young Hugh Morgan

2029
01:52:58,085 --> 01:53:01,085
Speaker 2: here and I'm going, man, this kid looks so familiar.

2030
01:53:01,245 --> 01:53:03,325
Speaker 2: You know, I know this face. Of course I know

2031
01:53:03,445 --> 01:53:05,604
Speaker 2: this face, but I don't know how I know him.

2032
01:53:05,885 --> 01:53:07,245
Speaker 2: And so at one point I had to get my

2033
01:53:07,245 --> 01:53:08,765
Speaker 2: phone out it was bugging me too much, and I

2034
01:53:09,085 --> 01:53:11,964
Speaker 2: google the cast, and of course it's Roddy McDowell.

2035
01:53:12,125 --> 01:53:12,365
Speaker 3: Yeah.

2036
01:53:12,445 --> 01:53:14,885
Speaker 4: You watch you watch his performances Hugh Morgan.

2037
01:53:14,925 --> 01:53:17,885
Speaker 2: And I only know Roddy McDowell from a few a

2038
01:53:17,885 --> 01:53:20,765
Speaker 2: few performances, a few of his famous performances here and there.

2039
01:53:20,765 --> 01:53:23,804
Speaker 2: I don't really have an opinion of him as an actor.

2040
01:53:24,565 --> 01:53:27,285
Speaker 2: You watch him here as Hugh Morgan and you go, oh, okay,

2041
01:53:27,325 --> 01:53:29,245
Speaker 2: I get it, Like I understand why he was a

2042
01:53:29,325 --> 01:53:32,485
Speaker 2: child star who became an actor, right. He became a

2043
01:53:32,605 --> 01:53:35,285
Speaker 2: major player for I don't know how what period of time,

2044
01:53:35,445 --> 01:53:36,445
Speaker 2: but you understand it.

2045
01:53:36,725 --> 01:53:39,405
Speaker 4: You see the talent in his performance.

2046
01:53:39,245 --> 01:53:42,005
Speaker 1: And well, he's carry a lot. He has to carry

2047
01:53:42,005 --> 01:53:44,925
Speaker 1: a lot, because yes, this character is this goes back

2048
01:53:44,925 --> 01:53:48,605
Speaker 1: to what I was saying about it being nostalgic but

2049
01:53:48,725 --> 01:53:54,365
Speaker 1: not naive. Is in this face that we see a

2050
01:53:54,405 --> 01:53:57,525
Speaker 1: lot of because he's watching the adults and he's watching

2051
01:53:57,565 --> 01:54:00,285
Speaker 1: the change and in voiceover commenting on it, but not

2052
01:54:00,405 --> 01:54:03,405
Speaker 1: all that much. But this movie is also about growing

2053
01:54:03,525 --> 01:54:06,604
Speaker 1: up and into an awareness of the brokenness of the world,

2054
01:54:07,445 --> 01:54:11,764
Speaker 1: and you see that awareness down on Roddy McDowell's face

2055
01:54:11,845 --> 01:54:15,885
Speaker 1: as these scenes continue. So yeah, that's I think all.

2056
01:54:16,085 --> 01:54:18,564
Speaker 1: I agree with you. All the performances are strong and

2057
01:54:18,605 --> 01:54:19,885
Speaker 1: would definitely include his.

2058
01:54:20,605 --> 01:54:23,604
Speaker 2: Great art to our pantheon project. How Green was My Valley?

2059
01:54:23,645 --> 01:54:27,525
Speaker 2: Available VOD on most platforms. In two weeks, we'll get

2060
01:54:27,565 --> 01:54:32,805
Speaker 2: to Kira Kurrasawa's Rashomon. That one is available on HBO, Max,

2061
01:54:32,925 --> 01:54:38,045
Speaker 2: the Criterion Channel, and a few free ad supported streamers

2062
01:54:38,405 --> 01:54:41,645
Speaker 2: also VOD, so you have lots of options if you

2063
01:54:41,725 --> 01:54:45,325
Speaker 2: have not seen that film Rashomon, and even if you have,

2064
01:54:45,725 --> 01:54:48,205
Speaker 2: you know probably worth taking another look at Maybe It's

2065
01:54:48,245 --> 01:54:50,805
Speaker 2: changed Who Knows. For more on the Pantheon, visit filmspotting

2066
01:54:50,845 --> 01:54:53,365
Speaker 2: dot net slash Pantheon Josh.

2067
01:54:53,445 --> 01:54:54,525
Speaker 4: That is our show.

2068
01:54:54,845 --> 01:54:57,405
Speaker 1: If you would like to connect with us on social media,

2069
01:54:57,445 --> 01:55:00,965
Speaker 1: you can find Adam and the show on Instagram, Facebook, letterbox,

2070
01:55:01,245 --> 01:55:04,645
Speaker 1: and YouTube. He's at film Spotting. I'm at all those

2071
01:55:04,685 --> 01:55:07,765
Speaker 1: places as well. You can find me at Larson on film.

2072
01:55:08,125 --> 01:55:11,685
Speaker 1: We are independently produced and listeners supported. You can support

2073
01:55:11,725 --> 01:55:15,005
Speaker 1: the show by joining the film Spotting Family and you

2074
01:55:15,045 --> 01:55:18,405
Speaker 1: can do that at film spottingfamily dot com. Listen early

2075
01:55:18,565 --> 01:55:21,725
Speaker 1: and ad free. You'll also get a weekly newsletter, monthly

2076
01:55:21,805 --> 01:55:25,325
Speaker 1: bonus episodes, and access to the entire show archive. For

2077
01:55:25,525 --> 01:55:28,365
Speaker 1: show t shirts and other merch go to film spotting

2078
01:55:28,445 --> 01:55:30,445
Speaker 1: dot net slash.

2079
01:55:29,925 --> 01:55:33,805
Speaker 2: Shop in the film Spotting Archive. I don't recommend. I

2080
01:55:33,805 --> 01:55:35,685
Speaker 2: don't know why we're saying this, because I don't recommend

2081
01:55:35,685 --> 01:55:38,325
Speaker 2: any but anybody go back and listen to these. But

2082
01:55:38,925 --> 01:55:43,645
Speaker 2: we do have conversations myself and Film Spotting producer co

2083
01:55:43,765 --> 01:55:47,845
Speaker 2: fander Sam van Halgren talking about Stagecoach from john Ford,

2084
01:55:48,085 --> 01:55:50,765
Speaker 2: the Searchers and my darling Clementine. They were all part

2085
01:55:50,805 --> 01:55:54,085
Speaker 2: of the very first film spotting marathon Westerns in two

2086
01:55:54,125 --> 01:55:56,845
Speaker 2: thousand and five Western Western a week.

2087
01:55:56,925 --> 01:55:58,325
Speaker 4: Josh, guess how many we watched?

2088
01:55:58,445 --> 01:56:02,205
Speaker 2: There were eight eight eight Western part of a marathon,

2089
01:56:02,445 --> 01:56:05,405
Speaker 2: all right, Yeah, And I think after that maybe we

2090
01:56:05,685 --> 01:56:07,845
Speaker 2: started to realize eight was a little bit too ambitious.

2091
01:56:07,885 --> 01:56:11,285
Speaker 2: But I can say the marathons, the fact that we've

2092
01:56:11,325 --> 01:56:14,405
Speaker 2: now done fifty plus of these, we can attribute it

2093
01:56:14,445 --> 01:56:17,405
Speaker 2: back to really john Ford, not just Westerns, but john

2094
01:56:17,485 --> 01:56:19,405
Speaker 2: Ford in a lot of ways, like the fact that

2095
01:56:19,885 --> 01:56:24,645
Speaker 2: we felt so ignor about Ford as this master and

2096
01:56:24,685 --> 01:56:28,285
Speaker 2: had not seen Actually I had seen stagecoach in school,

2097
01:56:28,325 --> 01:56:31,445
Speaker 2: but I hadn't seen the searchers. I hadn't seen my darling, Clementine,

2098
01:56:31,805 --> 01:56:34,245
Speaker 2: and we had to fix that. In limited release, you

2099
01:56:34,245 --> 01:56:37,765
Speaker 2: can see Kokuho, Japan's second highest grossing film of twenty

2100
01:56:37,805 --> 01:56:40,725
Speaker 2: twenty five. It's a three hour biopic about the master

2101
01:56:40,845 --> 01:56:44,045
Speaker 2: of the art of kabuki out wide. Then a lot

2102
01:56:44,085 --> 01:56:46,885
Speaker 2: of buzz Luhrman talk on this show epic. This is

2103
01:56:47,005 --> 01:56:51,125
Speaker 2: Elvis Presley in concert long loss newly restored footage of

2104
01:56:51,165 --> 01:56:56,045
Speaker 2: Elvis in concert during his seventies Vegas residency, assembled by Luerman,

2105
01:56:56,365 --> 01:57:00,645
Speaker 2: presented in Imax. You could also see yeah, I know.

2106
01:57:00,925 --> 01:57:02,925
Speaker 2: I mean, I actually I really do want to see it,

2107
01:57:02,925 --> 01:57:05,165
Speaker 2: but I don't know that I'm gonna have an IMAX opportunity.

2108
01:57:05,605 --> 01:57:08,085
Speaker 2: Glenn Powell and Margaret Qualley are in How to Make

2109
01:57:08,125 --> 01:57:11,205
Speaker 2: a Killing. This is a remake of nineteen forty nine's

2110
01:57:11,365 --> 01:57:15,205
Speaker 2: Alec Guinness starring KindHearts and Coronets. Now I didn't know that,

2111
01:57:15,605 --> 01:57:17,325
Speaker 2: but I've seen that film that was part of another

2112
01:57:17,365 --> 01:57:19,165
Speaker 2: film Spotting marathon at one.

2113
01:57:19,125 --> 01:57:23,685
Speaker 1: And it's pretty good. And ask me reconsidering my exposure

2114
01:57:23,765 --> 01:57:25,165
Speaker 1: to the trailer of How to Make a Kilt?

2115
01:57:25,245 --> 01:57:28,605
Speaker 2: Right, Okay, I know me too. The Andrew Kevin Walker

2116
01:57:28,645 --> 01:57:32,605
Speaker 2: scripted Psycho Killer is also out streaming vod You can

2117
01:57:32,645 --> 01:57:35,205
Speaker 2: see Morgan Nevill's Paul McCartney Man on the Run. That's

2118
01:57:35,205 --> 01:57:37,085
Speaker 2: on Prime Video, and I would say if you have

2119
01:57:37,125 --> 01:57:38,885
Speaker 2: any interest in it at all, especially if you're a

2120
01:57:38,885 --> 01:57:43,205
Speaker 2: Beatles fan or Paul McCartney fan, specifically watch it because

2121
01:57:43,685 --> 01:57:45,885
Speaker 2: you can hear my interview with Morgan Neville about that

2122
01:57:45,965 --> 01:57:49,245
Speaker 2: film next week on the show. And we will also

2123
01:57:49,405 --> 01:57:52,165
Speaker 2: pay tribute to Katherine o'harow with our top five Catherine

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01:57:52,165 --> 01:57:53,165
Speaker 2: O'Hara characters.

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Speaker 1: Film Spotting is produced by Golden Joe to So and

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Speaker 1: Sam van Halgren. Without Sam and Golden Joe, this show

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Speaker 1: wouldn't go. Our production assistant is Sophie Kempinar. Special thanks

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Speaker 1: to everyone at Wbeazy Chicago. More information is available at

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Speaker 1: wez dot org for film spotting, I'm Josh Larson.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Adam Kempinar. Thanks for listening.

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Speaker 3: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore.

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Speaker 1: The Vine

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Speaker 4: Lay everything