Speaker 1: It's nine fifteen pm at one thirteen East Street and
Speaker 1: you're listening to Night Call. Hello, and welcome to Night Call,
Speaker 1: a podcast for your strange days and lonely nights. I'm
Speaker 1: Tess Lynch in Los Angeles, and with me is special
Speaker 1: guest Karina Longworth Hi over in New York. We have,
Speaker 1: as always Emily Oshida. Hi guy, Hi. I'm so excited
Speaker 1: to have Karina on the show. It feels like it's
Speaker 1: been long overdue. Yes. Absolutely, And for those of you
Speaker 1: who do not know, who have been living in a
Speaker 1: cave Karina hosts, you must remember this a really, really
Speaker 1: great podcast about Hollywood history and scandal and all sorts
Speaker 1: of juicy stuff that is, uh, it's on hiatus right now, correct,
Speaker 1: But yeah, but if you haven't listened to it, you
Speaker 1: can go back and discover a whole wealth of podcast
Speaker 1: episodes past. You should also read her books. Her newest one,
Speaker 1: I believe is Seduction, Sex, Lives and Stardom and Howard
Speaker 1: Hughes Hollywood and it's amazing, so you should definitely get that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think you must remember this is definitely
Speaker 1: like Night Call adjacent. We've all been big fans for
Speaker 1: a long time. So we're really happy to have Greena here.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm happy to be here. I'm a fan
Speaker 1: of Night Call Boy. Thank you. I'm so excited to
Speaker 1: talk about erratic thrillers. Oh yeah, it's like, it's really
Speaker 1: It's really great how much this series of ours has
Speaker 1: brought people out of the woodwork, Like there are a
Speaker 1: lot of kind of secret enthusiasts who are like, oh,
Speaker 1: when are you gonna do mine? Like my favorite. Um,
Speaker 1: we wanted to start off real quick just to acknowledge
Speaker 1: our new superstar, the literally the black hole that was imaged,
Speaker 1: i should say, for the first time last week, So
Speaker 1: this is sort of old news by the time you're
Speaker 1: hearing this, but we just wanted to give it a
Speaker 1: little bit of a shout out. Where were you when
Speaker 1: you saw the black hole for the first time? The
Speaker 1: black hole blip? Yeah, where were you, Karina? I think
Speaker 1: I like was I had just turned on the shower
Speaker 1: and I was waiting for it to heat up and
Speaker 1: I was looking at it on my phone. Nice, oh dangerous, dangerous.
Speaker 1: I live that way too. This black hole has a name,
Speaker 1: and it's what has a couple of names. Actually, it
Speaker 1: just got a Hawaiian name, but it's um, it was
Speaker 1: originally m S. Star. You know how it took me
Speaker 1: to realize that m AD three the musical act slash
Speaker 1: band was named after a star system. I oh, it
Speaker 1: took me until I was today years old. Wherever. Well,
Speaker 1: it's a really beautiful one, so he puts a good one.
Speaker 1: But it's very appropriate once you think about it, because
Speaker 1: it's a very galactic music, Like you feel very starry
Speaker 1: eyed when you're listening to it. But I had no
Speaker 1: idea until like a year ago. So um, but yeah,
Speaker 1: M eight seven is the new, the new hot galaxy
Speaker 1: in town. I know that there's been a lot of
Speaker 1: little mini stories coming out about it, and like the
Speaker 1: the the woman who actually was kind of spearheading the
Speaker 1: entire project too, was kind of credited later on down
Speaker 1: the road. Of course, we tend to lose credit for
Speaker 1: our women in stem and astronomy and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But that was interesting. But I think, like, I like
Speaker 1: just reading what people felt seeing it for the first time.
Speaker 1: What kind of reactions did you see? I missed this.
Speaker 1: I think Jezebel had a good post where it was
Speaker 1: just like they just opened up the comments and said, like,
Speaker 1: tell us how you feel about the black hole. And
Speaker 1: of course a lot of it is jokes, Like a
Speaker 1: lot of people had a lot of good jokes about
Speaker 1: the black hole. But I think, I think it's interesting
Speaker 1: because it's something that you know, you feel like you've
Speaker 1: seen a billion times because we've seen like recreations of
Speaker 1: them in sci fi movies or you know, in in
Speaker 1: you know, a time life science book or something like that.
Speaker 1: Like you kind of know what a black hole is
Speaker 1: supposed to look like, but actually seeing an actual is
Speaker 1: very It is an interesting feeling. I like it. I
Speaker 1: like I like to ponder the black hole. It kind
Speaker 1: of looks like like an ultrasound image of an eyeball. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a little bit, you know, with like all that kind
Speaker 1: of strata and the like orange e kind of background.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit too much for me. I think
Speaker 1: we've we've now been talking about the the ultra black
Speaker 1: holes on the floor, you know, and now black hole.
Speaker 1: Like there's been a whole kind of broadcast holes, art holes,
Speaker 1: black holes, Molly's fear of holes, little holes, the little holes. Um,
Speaker 1: after we finished the Erotic Thrillers, we should just do
Speaker 1: holes and then we could do the movie holes. Um, well,
Speaker 1: please give us a night call at one two four
Speaker 1: oh four six night and tell us how the black
Speaker 1: hole made you feel, or any other thoughts you might
Speaker 1: have about the black hole. We welcome them all. The
Speaker 1: black hole is evergreen content. I feel like it is
Speaker 1: literally I mean yeah, it's time less literally yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: and spatially expanding. Eight twelve. This week's episode of Nightcall
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Speaker 1: to happen to alcohol since Alcohol twelve nine eight. Guys,
Speaker 1: we are on our way to wrapping up our erotic
Speaker 1: thriller odyssey. We are we are going to be speaking
Speaker 1: about Liver, film by Phil Noise. I love the last
Speaker 1: name Noise. Yeah, it's really appropriate for this movie. It is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna get to that in the second half because oddly, uh,
Speaker 1: some some recent interesting stories of fit right into our wheelhouse. UM,
Speaker 1: namely the Bloomberg article that came out last week about
Speaker 1: Alexa and other home I guess, wait, what's what's the
Speaker 1: general term smart smart home device? Smart home devices? Um?
Speaker 1: Apparently there's an Apple one I've never heard of, so
Speaker 1: I guess they're not doing a very good job with
Speaker 1: that one called home Pod. But um, but there's also
Speaker 1: the Google home but Alexa. I feel like it is
Speaker 1: the one that everybody has in the Echo. Um do
Speaker 1: I have if you have an Alexa or Echo? No?
Speaker 1: But my phone like always thinks I'm talking to yes
Speaker 1: like serious series, always trying to just like wedge her
Speaker 1: away into my conversations. I'm surprised she didn't just say something,
Speaker 1: but I like, I had dental work done last week,
Speaker 1: and for some reason, Siri kept thinking I was saying
Speaker 1: her name more than usual because I was like mumbling,
Speaker 1: so any time I would say anything that with an
Speaker 1: S sound, she would be like, I don't understand. See,
Speaker 1: I thought I had the serie thing turned because I
Speaker 1: can actually see some use for that if I am,
Speaker 1: you know, washing the dishes or cooking something, and I
Speaker 1: just need like to to know what time. It never works.
Speaker 1: It never were what you want. Like, she never is
Speaker 1: actually helpful. She's never able to like find like the
Speaker 1: contact you wanted to find, or put on the podcast
Speaker 1: you wanted to put on. Whenever I'm like, tell me
Speaker 1: how long it's going to take to get to blank place,
Speaker 1: She's like, do you want me to make you a
Speaker 1: reservation about what I asked wants to smart things. I
Speaker 1: don't like the smart I turned Siri off and I
Speaker 1: thought she was completely off, and then she was like hello,
Speaker 1: and I was like, no, you're off. But I got
Speaker 1: really creeped out about privacy. Not that I really have
Speaker 1: any secrets, but um I tried to like lock everything
Speaker 1: down a while ago. But a friend of mine just
Speaker 1: said that she that Alexa. She's a teacher and Alexa
Speaker 1: was like chiming in in her classroom with like some
Speaker 1: racy content. Yeah, I mean, it's just Alexa. None of
Speaker 1: them have any tact terrible. So this article that came out,
Speaker 1: it was it was by a team of people at Bloomberg,
Speaker 1: Matt Day, Giles Turner, and Italia Drosdiac. The difference between
Speaker 1: like having Syria on the phone, it's like you're going
Speaker 1: to get a phone anyway, and it's like a piece
Speaker 1: of software that comes on the phone that you theoretically
Speaker 1: can disable. But Alexa is expressly for the purpose of
Speaker 1: having a robot that listens to you and takes your
Speaker 1: data and uses it to quote get smarter. And so
Speaker 1: this was a report they did where they talked to
Speaker 1: a lot of people who worked at these centers somewhere
Speaker 1: within Amazon itself, and some of them are outsourced to
Speaker 1: other companies where in a way, I feel like we've
Speaker 1: seen a lot of stories similar to this in recent years.
Speaker 1: There are people whose job it is to just listen
Speaker 1: to your recordings, like listen to the stuff that UM
Speaker 1: all these alexis pick up, because it's not just a
Speaker 1: robot that is artificial intelligencing its way to tell you
Speaker 1: about a restaurant that you might want, may or may
Speaker 1: not want to go to. A lot of times these
Speaker 1: are going to actual humans who then UM figure out
Speaker 1: what to do with that data or try to get
Speaker 1: better at recognizing what you're saying and why you're asking
Speaker 1: certain questions and stuff like that. But like in the meantime,
Speaker 1: of course, they pick up all sorts of stuff that uh,
Speaker 1: you might not actually want anybody to hear, such as
Speaker 1: uh in one case in the report a sexual assault
Speaker 1: or probable sexual assault UM, and it talks about the
Speaker 1: people who work at these centers picking up on this
Speaker 1: stuff and sharing it with everybody, and I guess like
Speaker 1: a slack channel or something, but it's not like for
Speaker 1: means of reporting it it's like they just talk about like, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're stressed out because you heard this, so you want
Speaker 1: to share it with people, or like you want to
Speaker 1: make fun of somebody singing in the shower that it
Speaker 1: picked up or something, which is like really creepy. I
Speaker 1: don't know, Like it would be one thing if it
Speaker 1: was like, oh, we heard this and we need to
Speaker 1: figure out what legally were you know, what we need
Speaker 1: to do around what we think we're hearing right now.
Speaker 1: But a lot of times it feels like it's just
Speaker 1: like l O l um or oh my god, isn't
Speaker 1: this creepy? And and nothing being done, Not that I
Speaker 1: think nothing. You necessarily want the authorities to come in
Speaker 1: Russian help you or something because your robot heard you.
Speaker 1: But I don't know it was I'm sure the robot
Speaker 1: is not that great at like determining concerns. No, not
Speaker 1: at all. But like you know, the robot picks it
Speaker 1: up and then the humans hear it, and then you
Speaker 1: have a morality question where before there perhaps it was
Speaker 1: a different morality question. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: I just think it's wild that anybody paid to put
Speaker 1: these in their how like you're like doing the work
Speaker 1: for like you're paying where wire it's just um. There
Speaker 1: were a couple of other articles this week too, which
Speaker 1: will now be a week old for listeners, but you
Speaker 1: can I'm sure there will be three more articles about
Speaker 1: the exact same thing. Um. One of them was How
Speaker 1: Capitalism Betrayed Privacy by Tim Wou in The New York Times,
Speaker 1: which kind of talked about how privacy was initially thought
Speaker 1: of as being kind of like a rich person's you know,
Speaker 1: only rich people had access to it, and you know,
Speaker 1: poorer people lived in more of like a communal living
Speaker 1: with less expectation of privacy, and then gradually how the
Speaker 1: rise of the middle class afforded more people the right
Speaker 1: to privacy, and now because the gatekeepers are all interested
Speaker 1: in our data and behavior, that it's kind of turning
Speaker 1: around where the expectation of privacy is no longer like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's being kind of eroded. And then there
Speaker 1: was also a really scary article CNBC I think reported
Speaker 1: that organizations are starting to track and movement and Amazon
Speaker 1: and Walmart of both, yeah, they have like the patents
Speaker 1: on the kind of um, their censors that track both
Speaker 1: movement and are listening for like the rustling of bags
Speaker 1: and conversations between the cashiers and the customers and the
Speaker 1: bat scanner. Yea, I hate Yes, it's horrible. Um, it's
Speaker 1: very interesting because these things are all so terrifying when
Speaker 1: you kind of come across them and they've been going on.
Speaker 1: I mean, if you start to look up about how
Speaker 1: long people have been saying like, oh, I think my
Speaker 1: phone is listening to me, despite the denials of these companies.
Speaker 1: We started talking about it a few years ago. It
Speaker 1: had already been a discussion for years before that. But
Speaker 1: it's just bizarre how little there is to grab onto
Speaker 1: even now in terms of, you know, like a really
Speaker 1: trustworthy conversation about whether or not that's true. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I feel like everybody's opinion now about whether
Speaker 1: or not their phone is listening to them, especially Karina.
Speaker 1: Where do you fall? Oh, definitely, my devices are absolutely
Speaker 1: you know, I know because of the ads I get
Speaker 1: stuff right, like it will be extremely bizarre of almost
Speaker 1: even like not saying things out loud, just feeling like
Speaker 1: did I say that out loud? Like I thought I
Speaker 1: just thought that, and then it's like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: you could buy a you know, steampunk laundry hamper. It's
Speaker 1: like you've done enough other actions that like algorithmically would
Speaker 1: lead you to the steampunk laundry hamper, Yeah, which I
Speaker 1: did buy. What is that? Like? What is that? The
Speaker 1: aesthetic is more like it's like what would be in
Speaker 1: the Orphanage and return to Oz. It's like like a
Speaker 1: metal sort of wire thing with wheels and then like
Speaker 1: a big canvas bag inside and no gargoyles or no, Okay,
Speaker 1: I mean I could I guess I could attach me
Speaker 1: like umbrella, like like really like fire like umbrella. Yeah,
Speaker 1: not a bad idea. Yeah, I I feel like I
Speaker 1: remember me into so much resistance about this, or people
Speaker 1: really acting as if I was a conspiracy theorist, like
Speaker 1: that was the only thing I really seriously, I think
Speaker 1: honestly believed something kind of in that realm that felt
Speaker 1: conspiracy ish and was not universally met with people being like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, though, that's definitely happening. Like when I was
Speaker 1: working at a tech side, a lot of people were like,
Speaker 1: that's a common uh crack pot conspiracy and you are
Speaker 1: dumb for thinking that. But now I mean I don't know,
Speaker 1: like I don't know where the consensus is on it
Speaker 1: now because I feel like more and more people are
Speaker 1: just like reporting these things. You see it like every
Speaker 1: single day. Um, why do you think people get defensive
Speaker 1: as if it's not a thing. It seems as obviously
Speaker 1: a thing. It's obviously a thing, and yet people are like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: you have to believe it's not a thing, which seems
Speaker 1: to me to be a very crazy stance because they
Speaker 1: see people who have bought in so much to like
Speaker 1: overall tech culture, where they've they have put enough of
Speaker 1: the chips on the thing of like I am going
Speaker 1: to get into the lifestyle where I do get all
Speaker 1: the things. I'm an early adopter and everything. I'm going
Speaker 1: to put all my dad on the cloud and it's
Speaker 1: owned by Google or Apple or whoever. Um. And this
Speaker 1: is like not just a choice of convenience or something.
Speaker 1: This is kind of like a it's like a principle.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like it's like a lifestyle choice. It's
Speaker 1: like a set of beliefs. And so if you're if
Speaker 1: somebody questions the I don't know practicality or you know,
Speaker 1: how how wise it is to actually do all of
Speaker 1: this stuff, that it does start to feel personal. I
Speaker 1: think for people. Yeah, I think. I mean, at one
Speaker 1: point it was all of that stuff was like viably utopian,
Speaker 1: and now it just seems like there's no way you
Speaker 1: could not see it as dystopian. R Yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: it's like like new codes or something, like you've created
Speaker 1: this thing that you know is now potentially much more
Speaker 1: could if if it were to follow in the wrong hands.
Speaker 1: If it's not all get the wrong it's already in
Speaker 1: the wrong hands. Whose hands could be worse? There's no
Speaker 1: there's no right hands and any late capitalism there's This
Speaker 1: is like tangentially related because one of the things I
Speaker 1: also always would pick up on is that, um, I
Speaker 1: would talk about something like a place or a business,
Speaker 1: and then it would pop up on my Google Maps. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't be a place I had gone. It was
Speaker 1: just a place maybe I was talking about with somebody.
Speaker 1: And now Google Maps, when you're doing directions on it,
Speaker 1: it will I don't think this is like the same phenomenon,
Speaker 1: but it's just like it just sucks. It'll say like
Speaker 1: take a right, not at the street that you're at now. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so I hate it's so much. It's very strange. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, but are those placements that
Speaker 1: are being bought. I think I think they have to
Speaker 1: be right, because I mean, we I'm getting ones that
Speaker 1: are like really inconsistent with any place I go, like Armies.
Speaker 1: I guess it's front of RV and I'm just like,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I've like totally blocked out Arby's in
Speaker 1: my field of vision, like I don't see them. And
Speaker 1: then it's like, where's the I don't know where the
Speaker 1: Arby's just told me where to take a right. It's
Speaker 1: very frustrating. Um Oney, hat you can't miss it. It's true,
Speaker 1: It's true. It was my grandmother's favorite restaurant, our love
Speaker 1: an ary. Um. Yeah, servisive topic, honestly. Um There was
Speaker 1: a quote, and I think it was the New York
Speaker 1: Times um op ed and it said that once you
Speaker 1: I'm not going to read it, but I'll just summarize
Speaker 1: because it was kind of long. But once you realize
Speaker 1: that you're being watched or that you're being surveiled, you
Speaker 1: can't continue to act authentically. You can't shake that feeling,
Speaker 1: and it it totally changes, like your behavior in general,
Speaker 1: So like what you've really lost once you acknowledge that
Speaker 1: you're being surveilled all the time is your soul and
Speaker 1: that's what slipper slippers, and that's what exactly before we
Speaker 1: get to Slipper, do you guys want to take a
Speaker 1: night Let's take a nightcall. Hey, nightcall. My name is Bree.
Speaker 1: I'm calling from Alisa via Hot, California and it is
Speaker 1: sixty four A m Um. I heard you guys on
Speaker 1: this week's episode talking about to be Head Grins Big
Speaker 1: Cat Preserve and I've actually been there. Um. I was
Speaker 1: in junior college and I randomly took a it was
Speaker 1: a wild animal class something a wild animal handling something
Speaker 1: like that, and we actually took a field trip to
Speaker 1: the preserve and it was actually really cool. They had
Speaker 1: a lot of interesting things there. One of them they
Speaker 1: talked about was a three legged cheetah, so they said
Speaker 1: could still run, you know, about thirty miles per hour
Speaker 1: even with three legs. Um. There was also they talked
Speaker 1: about how they had a a tiger, which is a
Speaker 1: tiger father Liger Mom and the the Liger Mob gave
Speaker 1: birth to a Thai Tai god, which is when it's
Speaker 1: a Thai god who has now for us with a
Speaker 1: tiger Dad. So that was pretty cool. It was a
Speaker 1: definitely an interesting experience. But I'm all for, you know,
Speaker 1: people helping out these big casts that have either been
Speaker 1: abandoned by to which or by weird people who think
Speaker 1: that they should probably have a tiger in their house.
Speaker 1: You know, there's lost rage people out there. All right,
Speaker 1: night call, have great day. You know what's funny, just
Speaker 1: as a side note, is how often we get that
Speaker 1: we get are all of our calls through Google Voice
Speaker 1: and it automatically transcribes it. And half the time when
Speaker 1: people say hi, night call, it transcribes is high Michael
Speaker 1: all the time, Like our podcast is now Michael, our
Speaker 1: pudonym is Michael as yes, absolutely as a trio um.
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that different species of wildcats could diversify
Speaker 1: like that. No, I did not know about a tig on.
Speaker 1: It sounds like Game of Thrones. It's good to know
Speaker 1: they're all horny for each other exactly. Maybe it's just
Speaker 1: the sanctuary lifestyle. It's like, yeah, have either of you
Speaker 1: have been to the Tippy Hydron Preserve? I just I
Speaker 1: know one person who has, I think for a story
Speaker 1: U a profile of her, But it seems it seems
Speaker 1: pretty wild. I can't believe it's still there. And I've
Speaker 1: never seen roar either, which, like I guess I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm saving it for the right moment or something. But
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to, Oh, we should cover that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I haven't either. I have mixed feelings about about I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm glad the sanctuaries exists, but it's just I find
Speaker 1: it increasingly difficult to like just look at animals in cages. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well they're not I know, but it's like they're just
Speaker 1: kind of I mean, it's it's probably enclosed in some way,
Speaker 1: but it's like it's just odd to me. It just
Speaker 1: doesn't like it doesn't really no thrill for me, like sadness,
Speaker 1: a little layer of sadness, and just like worrying about
Speaker 1: the world. There is something interesting about the fact that
Speaker 1: Tippy Hedren like has her cat thing, and then Doris
Speaker 1: Day has gone into seclusion like with her animals. She
Speaker 1: doesn't have like a public place where you can visit them.
Speaker 1: She just like supposedly collects sort of stray animals. I
Speaker 1: didn't know the pythons in her house or something, or
Speaker 1: I don't know if they're exotic at all. It might
Speaker 1: just be like cats and dogs. But she, you know,
Speaker 1: she's kind of like disappeared from the public eye over
Speaker 1: the past twenty years or so. She doesn't give any
Speaker 1: interviews or anything, but like the only sort of public
Speaker 1: stuff she does is animal rescue initiatives. And she supposedly
Speaker 1: like lives on a ranch somewhere like and it's just
Speaker 1: her and her animals. She's outlived like her whole when
Speaker 1: she ever knew. So um only barely related to this.
Speaker 1: I was looking at um yelled reviews for the Bunny Museum.
Speaker 1: Have you guys ever been to the museum? It's a
Speaker 1: it's a museum. I think it used to be in
Speaker 1: like a little house and is now has now moved.
Speaker 1: But um, I went there once in high school, and
Speaker 1: it's like it's just basically a bunch of like bunny
Speaker 1: memorabilia and then a few bunnies in a very very
Speaker 1: close quarters and you don't know what it is, and
Speaker 1: you make a long drive to get there, and then
Speaker 1: it's like it's just a very intense experience that I
Speaker 1: would say probably ten percent of the people who go
Speaker 1: there respond well to. Yeah, there's are like what if
Speaker 1: I die like the cafe for bunnies, because I've done
Speaker 1: that before. Now it is it is like you're not
Speaker 1: really encouraged to interact with the live bunnies. You're encouraged
Speaker 1: to like take in the stuffed bunnies and the bunny
Speaker 1: kind of like if I get a panic attack talking
Speaker 1: about it, I just had to like in myself. But
Speaker 1: you can just read the ALP reviews and get a
Speaker 1: really really good sense of what it is. I was
Speaker 1: looking into it recently because I was like, funny, museum
Speaker 1: sounds familiar, but I'm sure it's not the same one
Speaker 1: I went to. Maybe I want to go, Oh no,
Speaker 1: it is the same one, and I'm not going to
Speaker 1: go to that. You know, it's a it's a mixed
Speaker 1: bag when you when you go into the place where
Speaker 1: there are a lot of animals, it is really really weird.
Speaker 1: Like there. I watched this some actually really great short
Speaker 1: film um that I was when I was in injury
Speaker 1: and a festival in Italy. Force was this film about
Speaker 1: these like this group of old Italian men who are
Speaker 1: all like hunting for this mythical panther that's been seen
Speaker 1: by people like and occasionally will like eat a sheep
Speaker 1: or something, but apparently was owned, like I guess by
Speaker 1: somebody in the sixties or seventies or something when it
Speaker 1: was like I guess that was a trend again in Italy,
Speaker 1: like among the rich people to have, you know, these
Speaker 1: exotic pets that then they grew, would get big and
Speaker 1: they couldn't take care of anymore. So I guess it's
Speaker 1: somewhat common for these like others and cheetahs and stuff
Speaker 1: to just be like hanging out, uh, you know, in
Speaker 1: Tuscany or whatever. It was a fascinating short. Um, I
Speaker 1: will see that. Yeah, I wonder if it's if it's
Speaker 1: available to screen anywhere or stream. I will put a
Speaker 1: link somewhere for it because it's great. Excellent, guys, we
Speaker 1: have to talk about Slipper. I'm really excited to talk
Speaker 1: about this movie. It made. It makes no sense, it
Speaker 1: makes no sense. It's a proto cyber thriller. I love it.
Speaker 1: But it took me a really it was a long
Speaker 1: journey for me erotic Odessey exactly. Um, for those of
Speaker 1: you who don't know, because I really have to talk
Speaker 1: about the end. You have to talk about the ending.
Speaker 1: You have to talk about the ending that almost was, um,
Speaker 1: this is a movie based on an eye a love
Speaker 1: and novel, who did he did? Separate Wives? And Rosemary's Baby?
Speaker 1: Directed by Philip Nois, as we said, and of course
Speaker 1: it's Joe Esterhouse. So let's let's go. First of all, Karina,
Speaker 1: this was a pick of yours. This is when we
Speaker 1: had wanted to do. But then we we asked you
Speaker 1: if you want to be on the show, and if
Speaker 1: you wanted to talk about an erotic thriller, and we
Speaker 1: were also kind of talking about what you felt like
Speaker 1: maybe the original erotic thriller was, or the history at
Speaker 1: least of the of the genre. But then we were like, oh,
Speaker 1: we just want to watch Sliver because but what And
Speaker 1: I know you said that this was a particular favorite
Speaker 1: of yours, So what when did you first see it
Speaker 1: and why did you respond to it? Do you think? So?
Speaker 1: I saw this movie in the theater when I was
Speaker 1: in seventh grade. I don't know how that was possible.
Speaker 1: I don't remember there being any trouble buying a ticket
Speaker 1: to it. I know I went with a girlfriend of mine,
Speaker 1: like after school on a Friday afternoon at Universal CityWalk. Um,
Speaker 1: and I just remember like really loving it. At age
Speaker 1: twelve and a half off UM, and part of it
Speaker 1: was like it had a big hit soundtrack. It had
Speaker 1: that UB forty I think there's like a couple of
Speaker 1: other sort of hit songs, and so it just felt
Speaker 1: like so hip, an adult and sexy, and I like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I was sort of a fledgling goth and
Speaker 1: I was wearing a lot of black chokers and Sharon
Speaker 1: Stone wears a choker, and like three scenes of this
Speaker 1: movie well also kind of pioneering at leisure in these
Speaker 1: incredible like leggings and like Kashmir coat looks straight from
Speaker 1: the gym like to the bedroom. Look. Yeah, But then
Speaker 1: I saw it a lot after that. Um, I think
Speaker 1: it was on TV a lot. And then there was
Speaker 1: a period around two thousand three where I was I'd
Speaker 1: been living in San Francisco and I was going to
Speaker 1: move to New York, but I was still hanging around
Speaker 1: after I had to give up my apartment, and so
Speaker 1: I was staying with a friend of mine who had
Speaker 1: like a big, like Victorian apartment in sort of on
Speaker 1: the border of Chinatown in San Francisco, and she was
Speaker 1: on disability for being depressed, and so she didn't have
Speaker 1: to go to a job. She just was able to
Speaker 1: live in this Victorian apartment and paint all day. And
Speaker 1: she liked to paint with movies on in the background,
Speaker 1: and her favorite thing to put on was Vertigo, but
Speaker 1: sometimes she'd alternate it with Sliver and she would just
Speaker 1: watch the two of those movies, like over and over again.
Speaker 1: And I remember sitting there for like three days reading
Speaker 1: the book that that guy Steve Hoddell wrote about how
Speaker 1: his dad killed the black Dahlia while this woman was
Speaker 1: watching Sliver over and over again. Yeah, it's not not depressing.
Speaker 1: So that was August two three for me. Wow, Um,
Speaker 1: it's funny because I was talking about like real estate
Speaker 1: horror and I feel like there should be more of it.
Speaker 1: And then yes, it's like, well, this feels like maybe
Speaker 1: one of five movies I can think of off the
Speaker 1: top of my and I would consider real estate horror.
Speaker 1: Parina read the book, and I think the book is
Speaker 1: way more about the physical place the apartment, and kind
Speaker 1: of like less about whatever these socials like. I mean,
Speaker 1: I haven't read the book since, like because I love
Speaker 1: the movie so much as a twelve and a half
Speaker 1: year old. And then like I was like I need
Speaker 1: more and so I read the book then, so I
Speaker 1: don't remember it that well, but I do remember that
Speaker 1: there was more of this element of kind of like
Speaker 1: corporate satire, you know, and there I mean, I guess
Speaker 1: we should talk about what the plot of the movie is,
Speaker 1: but there are conversations in the movie where at first
Speaker 1: they're like who even owns this building? Could it be?
Speaker 1: And then it turns out it's just Billy Baldwin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Billy Baldwin an interesting choice just like yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: he makes much more sense as the guy with the
Speaker 1: manga posters and like three different screensavers like going on
Speaker 1: and like some weird um fiber optic sculpture in his
Speaker 1: apartment than like the sexy like the sexy boyer, Like
Speaker 1: I don't one half of those works more for me
Speaker 1: than the and as and as great as Sharon Stone's
Speaker 1: wardrobe was in this movie, like his was just a
Speaker 1: really old, really strange choice of the graphic T shirt
Speaker 1: with rold sleep into the gene like he lives like
Speaker 1: he looks like a guy in Brooklyn. Now though that's
Speaker 1: the crazy thing. It's like it's come, it's come full circle.
Speaker 1: I know it's true. Well a lot about this movie
Speaker 1: is like more timely than like it was in ninety three.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we should talk briefly about the plot, which
Speaker 1: let's let's untangle it. Um. So we have Carly Sharon
Speaker 1: Stone and she is I forget she's executive or something
Speaker 1: like that hot, but she's working on a James Dean
Speaker 1: biography that she has to like edit really fast, and
Speaker 1: I wish she had edited it and published it because
Speaker 1: there are no good James. It's true. It sounded I mean,
Speaker 1: it sounded like she was you know that she was
Speaker 1: she had a good repertoire, and that that was slumming
Speaker 1: it a little bit, so it would have been great. Um.
Speaker 1: Then she is moving into an apartment which is known
Speaker 1: as one thirteen UM. The Wikipedia for this film says
Speaker 1: that it's the building is located at one East thirty
Speaker 1: eight Street, but the actual building used in the movie
Speaker 1: UM was Morgan Court, which is a couple of blocks
Speaker 1: away on Madison. Um. It is a the sliver building
Speaker 1: because it looks like a little slice and apparently those
Speaker 1: were like you couldn't build those for a while, I
Speaker 1: guess before or after like this big boom of them.
Speaker 1: But now I feel like they're they're they've come back, baby,
Speaker 1: um and like bigger and more obtrusive form um. But
Speaker 1: I like that it was like considered. I guess it
Speaker 1: was like a very like Okoran architectural style to like
Speaker 1: frame a horror movie or like a suspense movie around
Speaker 1: or something. But yeah, it's you know, it's this very
Speaker 1: desirable exclusive building. And she applies and she gets in,
Speaker 1: and you know, very shortly after she moves in, she
Speaker 1: realizes that the previous tenant was murdered, Yes, Naomi Singer.
Speaker 1: And she meets some of the people who live in
Speaker 1: the building, and one of them happens to be this author,
Speaker 1: this like crime author played by Tom Berenger, who I
Speaker 1: guess her company is like trying to get her to
Speaker 1: work with but she's just super creepy and yeah um.
Speaker 1: And then also Billy Paldwin, who is uh not creepy, No,
Speaker 1: he's so so creepy too. The video game designer. He's
Speaker 1: a computer video game designer. I'll have you, yes, yes,
Speaker 1: okay fair and his like signature flirtation move is to
Speaker 1: like hack into people's desktop computers and be like hello,
Speaker 1: I love you. Send them clip art of a flower
Speaker 1: flower the Rose clip right is incredible. So nobody in
Speaker 1: this movie has a sense of humor. And also, um,
Speaker 1: I have to shout out Sharon Stone's office mate, her coworker,
Speaker 1: who is like so off the rails and I'm constantly
Speaker 1: talking about vibrators and a really unrealistic there's a realistic
Speaker 1: way to do it, but it's not not being not
Speaker 1: happening in this movie, played by the great Colleen Camp. Yes,
Speaker 1: Colleen Camp. Yeah, a bunch of like great talent in
Speaker 1: this movie. Like it's, you know, just like weird weird cat.
Speaker 1: I was like, where's Michael Douglas for this way? But
Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin would have been better casting because I feel
Speaker 1: like Alec Baldwin's the only Baldwin who is like legitimately
Speaker 1: scary and yessing um, Whereas Billy Baldwin, It's like it
Speaker 1: would just be so easy to be like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I'm just not going to hang out with you anymore,
Speaker 1: like just I'm not worried about repercussions of that. He
Speaker 1: can't really get his hooks in. I feel like a
Speaker 1: ruper Everett. I would like in that role better, Like
Speaker 1: I would want like a really gorgeous possibly British person
Speaker 1: who's like, yeah, British would have been better, who feels
Speaker 1: like a pasty indoor kid, but it's also beautiful, Like
Speaker 1: I don't know. Also, there's just something really confusing about
Speaker 1: the character's seduction of like approaching her with a very
Speaker 1: aggressive listen, do you work out, and like, come on,
Speaker 1: you're gonna and she was like what treadmills? He was like, no,
Speaker 1: we're gonna lift weights, and then like drags her down
Speaker 1: to the gym where she just like watches him lift weights.
Speaker 1: That when I realized that they were going to go
Speaker 1: to the gym, I was like, yes, Jim scene in
Speaker 1: three Baby, No Mirrors, No Mirrors. I was going to
Speaker 1: do this piece about Equinox at one point. So I
Speaker 1: was doing all this research, and there's a piece about
Speaker 1: like when Equinox is having its boom in the early nineties.
Speaker 1: It's like just a wonderful slice of New York in
Speaker 1: So I was I was into that. Oh, she also
Speaker 1: gets a telescope or yeah, a telescope, one of those
Speaker 1: spyglass type things in her window. Somebody gives it. I
Speaker 1: mean it's later an admirer. Yeah, it's later revealed that
Speaker 1: it was Billy Baldwin. But she just thinks the secret
Speaker 1: admyer dropped it off, and so she's like also staring,
Speaker 1: like spying on her neighbors a little bit. She has
Speaker 1: a cocktail party and they watched the neighbors have sex,
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, she's into the voyeur thing. But
Speaker 1: in the meantime, another person dies in the building, the
Speaker 1: the n y U film professor guy. Oh right, yeah
Speaker 1: he dies. Yeah, the film professor dies. The cokey fashion
Speaker 1: designer dies. Vida played by Polly Walker, who's really good
Speaker 1: in things and it's kind of good in this but
Speaker 1: also like a very strange character. I thought, um, just
Speaker 1: sort of the like very high strung artist. I feel
Speaker 1: like there's a lot in this movie where I mean
Speaker 1: I think that at one point it had an n
Speaker 1: C seventeen rating and then they cut it. But the
Speaker 1: big thing they cut was naked Billy Baldwin. But it
Speaker 1: also just feels like they cut out a lot of
Speaker 1: sort of narrative contest, Like it is apparent that the
Speaker 1: Vidic character is a prostitute really only if you like
Speaker 1: really listen to one of her phone conversation. And then
Speaker 1: like there's all this stuff where it's sort of hinted
Speaker 1: that Sharon Stone has just left a marriage that was
Speaker 1: abusive in some seven years. Seven years and she is
Speaker 1: she pregnant, okay, thank you. There's a part pretty early
Speaker 1: on in the movie where she it's before she gets um.
Speaker 1: She takes the bath, the bath, good bath, a really
Speaker 1: great bath. She starts like stroking her stomach and like
Speaker 1: looking depressed in the mirror, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: she's pregnant. And she's also been looking at the party
Speaker 1: across the way, and she's like very obviously not partying,
Speaker 1: and so I was like, yeah, she's like not drinking,
Speaker 1: but then she's drinking later at her own cocktail party.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I saw that more as like
Speaker 1: she's already said she's thirty five, she's been in this
Speaker 1: marriage for seven years, she didn't have a baby, and
Speaker 1: she's just like, you know, regretting that she's not pregnant,
Speaker 1: as we all got by holding. I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's you know, there's a lot of stuff in this
Speaker 1: movie that's clumsy, and I don't know if it's because
Speaker 1: of like the necessity to edit it for censorship or
Speaker 1: for as we'll get to like test screening reasons. But
Speaker 1: then there's a lot of stuff that I think feel
Speaker 1: like I appreciate the subtlety and I don't know if
Speaker 1: it's intentional or not. But first of all, like the
Speaker 1: first hour of this movie is incredibly slow. It's almost
Speaker 1: like a European movie. And you're just kind of watching
Speaker 1: this like, you know, not middle age but like slightly
Speaker 1: older than on genue age woman like kind of living
Speaker 1: her life and like exploring like what kind of person
Speaker 1: she's going to be. Like there's like creepy men everywhere,
Speaker 1: but she's like kind of willing to hear them out
Speaker 1: in a way that's interesting and exposes who they are
Speaker 1: more than it exposes who she is. And there's just
Speaker 1: like some interesting stuff with where it really does feel
Speaker 1: like it's it's kind of like a post European update
Speaker 1: on Hitchcock. And then there's also you know, like wacky sexy.
Speaker 1: I mean, I really like her character in this. It
Speaker 1: isn't just one thing. It's like she is just a
Speaker 1: gal who is like works a lot, and it's sort
Speaker 1: of interested in dating, but not in like the super
Speaker 1: like all consuming like it's her whole reason for being
Speaker 1: that she needs to find a man, Like she's not
Speaker 1: going to go to a Pavarotti concerts. Really long scene
Speaker 1: about yeah again that's the officer where on the erotic
Speaker 1: thriller Bingo Um. But yeah, Like it seems like she
Speaker 1: likes her job. It seems like she's pretty successful. She
Speaker 1: like wants to be dating, but she's not really It's
Speaker 1: not like she's going to just jump into bed with
Speaker 1: whoever until she meets Billy Baldwin. Like their relationship is
Speaker 1: sort of interesting in that in that kind of nine
Speaker 1: and a half week's way where it's like something you're
Speaker 1: kind of through the relationship, you're watching somebody figure out
Speaker 1: like what they're into. But I think, like obviously it's
Speaker 1: it leans a little it's a little less up for interpretation,
Speaker 1: uh in in this film than in nine and a
Speaker 1: half weeks. But I mean, the thing that we haven't
Speaker 1: said is that Billy Baldwin like he owns the building.
Speaker 1: And the reason why that's important is because he has
Speaker 1: cameras in every single room and he has like a
Speaker 1: control room, which he brags cost six million dollars for
Speaker 1: him to build in Osaka, and he's just able to
Speaker 1: watch every apartment in every room and every apartment at
Speaker 1: any time. And so after he started having sex with
Speaker 1: Sharon Stone, he like reveals this to her and at
Speaker 1: first she's fascinated by it, and she sits there for
Speaker 1: like apparently twenty four hours at a time just watching
Speaker 1: the video, like it's like all all consuming and I
Speaker 1: feel like that just felt me, like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: when somebody like discovers the Internet for the first time. Yes,
Speaker 1: it is totally like it completely changes your perspective on
Speaker 1: you know, or I I don't know. It's like it's
Speaker 1: it's addictive because it's new, and it's it's a new
Speaker 1: way of getting information and information that you never had
Speaker 1: access to before, and so it's just like you have
Speaker 1: no way to stop yourself. You don't have any Also,
Speaker 1: her reaction to seeing this is so impassive, which is
Speaker 1: really surprising because you would think that she would be.
Speaker 1: I mean, she it's revealed that like he has tapes
Speaker 1: of you know, the two of them having sex and
Speaker 1: he plays it for her. He also later we find out,
Speaker 1: has taped himself having sex with a bunch of other people.
Speaker 1: He has those um tapes underneath his shoes in a
Speaker 1: little trapdoor thing, and like some of the stories, like
Speaker 1: we get like a little kind of like plot diversion
Speaker 1: into a uh, you know, incest kind of thing that's
Speaker 1: going on. It's like, you know, she just her reactions
Speaker 1: are really subtle to the fact that these like while
Speaker 1: she's watching all of these different tapes, you would expect
Speaker 1: her to be more upset at Zeke or want to
Speaker 1: do something more, which is much like we watched you know,
Speaker 1: like taking a news on the internet or just like
Speaker 1: watching rolling through people's lives. It's like this hypnotic thing.
Speaker 1: I just don't really react. Yeah, like they really I mean,
Speaker 1: they really oversell it, think, but like doing this thing
Speaker 1: where she is just instantly she does have a first
Speaker 1: reaction of being horrified and disgusted by this and try
Speaker 1: and it's about to walk out and then turns around.
Speaker 1: It's like she stares at the screen five seconds too
Speaker 1: long and then it's like, oh, yeah, I must watch more,
Speaker 1: which is very I mean, yeah, it feels it feels understandable.
Speaker 1: And I wonder like the reception of this film, I
Speaker 1: mean the negative reception and right now it's gotten eleven
Speaker 1: percent on Rotten Tomatoes or something like that. But is
Speaker 1: that I mean about the far fetchedness of it or something,
Speaker 1: because I feel like that is less of a problem
Speaker 1: now than maybe it was. Yeah, I don't I don't
Speaker 1: really remember what the reception was like, like amongst me
Speaker 1: and like my middle school, Like the reception was very high,
Speaker 1: like maybe maybe thirteen year old or the idea for
Speaker 1: this movie. But um, also I think it was just
Speaker 1: like it was post Basic Instinct, and I think people
Speaker 1: were expecting kind of a higher level of sophistication in
Speaker 1: terms of storytelling. Yeah, Basic Instinct was a year before
Speaker 1: I think maybe two years before. Um. I read like
Speaker 1: a couple of old reviews of it, um, and I
Speaker 1: my main problem. So the crazy thing about this movie
Speaker 1: is that the ending was changed. An original ending was shot,
Speaker 1: it didn't test well. Um. There was also a horrible
Speaker 1: accident that was um, you know, involved in the shooting
Speaker 1: of the first siding. So the original ending and kind
Speaker 1: of and this is the big spoiler, is that Zeke
Speaker 1: has been killing the people. There are you know, three
Speaker 1: or four people who have died in one thirteen and
Speaker 1: he has killed them. And he confesses this to Carlie
Speaker 1: while they're in a helicopter in Hawaii over a volcano.
Speaker 1: And then he flies the helicopter into the volcano. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: you don't know. You don't know whether or not they survived.
Speaker 1: So basically this was This was scrapped for two reasons,
Speaker 1: I guess, number one being that the actual helicopter crashed
Speaker 1: during the film and so and the pilot's license was revoked.
Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone was hurt or killed, Like,
Speaker 1: it just seems like a mess, and they destroyed the footage.
Speaker 1: So and I guess audience has also had a problem
Speaker 1: with the fact that they were like, oh, Carly like
Speaker 1: forgives the killer. That makes her so, you know, unlikable.
Speaker 1: I just you know, now I hate everyone in the movie.
Speaker 1: So they're like, okay, like, let's figure out something else.
Speaker 1: Now we'll make Tom Berenger the murderer, which makes sense
Speaker 1: and to some extent because he's just creepy, like he's
Speaker 1: never anything but creepy. But here's my issue, and I
Speaker 1: pressed Greena on this earlier, but if Zeke Billy Baldwin
Speaker 1: has been watching these tapes of people and he claims
Speaker 1: at one point he's like, I never saw anyone die.
Speaker 1: One the Naomi singer was pushed off her balcony you know,
Speaker 1: it's like maybe they frame it as like a suicide,
Speaker 1: but it seems obvious that everyone's suspicious. The man is
Speaker 1: it two people all in the shower, one person falls
Speaker 1: in the shower. Well, the old man, yeah, he falls
Speaker 1: in the shower. But I get the feeling that that
Speaker 1: was just like he just had a heart attack or something.
Speaker 1: But the police are suspicious, like they're questioning everyone because
Speaker 1: he keep dying in that building, but it could be
Speaker 1: at coincidence. But then the the Cookey Models prostitute. Well,
Speaker 1: it's just interesting to me that Zeke could be the
Speaker 1: kind of character who's like, people keep dying mysteriously and
Speaker 1: I have footage of like the entire building. Isn't that weird?
Speaker 1: But if there were some way because like, no, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to pursue because he never he doesn't even
Speaker 1: his interest isn't even piqued. And the other reason that
Speaker 1: that's weird is that he had been having an affair
Speaker 1: with Naomi Singer, who had also been sleeping with Tom
Speaker 1: Berenger's character, So there was like this weird love triangle,
Speaker 1: and you would think that Zeke would have a suspicion
Speaker 1: that Tom Berenger had killed her, right, because he probably
Speaker 1: has some insight into her psyche, And yet he never
Speaker 1: brings up like is Tom Beranger super creepy weirdo? That's
Speaker 1: never a scene, it's just doesn't he talk to Sharon
Speaker 1: Stone about that though, he's like, I don't like that guy.
Speaker 1: I think he says I don't like that, but a
Speaker 1: lot about about I think it was after tom Beranger
Speaker 1: was like he's so sick. Yeah, yeah, but so my.
Speaker 1: The only thing I can say in defense of this
Speaker 1: is that I don't think that Billy Baldwin's character would
Speaker 1: want anyone to know about his video room. So he
Speaker 1: would never want to produce these tapes because like his
Speaker 1: whole life is about like watching the people in this building, right,
Speaker 1: And so if he had to admit how he had
Speaker 1: this footage, like he would probably go to jail, like
Speaker 1: he'd lose the building. But couldn't he be sneaky and
Speaker 1: be like, oh, I see what happened, and now I'm
Speaker 1: going to like figure out how to build a case
Speaker 1: against Tom Beranger. I don't know. I think I don't know.
Speaker 1: We could write a remake. The whole idea of it
Speaker 1: is that like that the access to all this stuff
Speaker 1: that he's bringing recording makes him like completely a more
Speaker 1: role or like yeah, yeah, like he he doesn't think
Speaker 1: about things in that an't way anymore. It all becomes
Speaker 1: entertainment to him, or he has this sort of alternate
Speaker 1: morality like he's the whole thing about like the he's
Speaker 1: watching this father Molista's daughter, and he like figures out
Speaker 1: a way to like confront the father and then he
Speaker 1: tells Sharon Stone like like we'll use we'll use our
Speaker 1: voyeurism for good, right, yeah, right, which is like I
Speaker 1: don't know, I mean, he's just represents like all of
Speaker 1: tech culture. Now, Yeah, we don't need to bring okay
Speaker 1: law and worsome or anything. We'll just have a very
Speaker 1: questionable moderation system in place that may or may not
Speaker 1: work depending on the whims of the people who are
Speaker 1: in control of it. Uh right. And I find this
Speaker 1: like that aspect of the movie to be absolutely fascilating.
Speaker 1: And the way that it ties like sort of his
Speaker 1: perpendicular and like hits up with this stuff of like
Speaker 1: a woman trying to find herself sexually. I think really good.
Speaker 1: It's a story of falling in love with with big
Speaker 1: Daddy data. Yeah, I mean that. Yeah. The ending, the
Speaker 1: alternate ending thing is is like, I don't know, it
Speaker 1: doesn't really work for me. I was I was totally
Speaker 1: expecting it to be a switchery where it's like the guy,
Speaker 1: do you think it's creepy? All along? Wasn't that creepy?
Speaker 1: I was expecting to. I mean, I was like, they
Speaker 1: wouldn't set up Tom Berenger's character as being this unlikable
Speaker 1: and then have him be the person who was doing this,
Speaker 1: like he has to be a Red Harry. I should
Speaker 1: know that. What actually happens in the movie that was
Speaker 1: released is that Sharon Stone like Quasi, accidentally kills Tom Berenger,
Speaker 1: and then in the video room, she like basically is like, hey,
Speaker 1: Billy Baldwin, like I haven't eden could you go get
Speaker 1: take out? And then he leaves her alone and she
Speaker 1: goes into his closet and finds his tapes that like
Speaker 1: showed that Tom Berenger was the real killer. But then
Speaker 1: she takes a gun and shoots all the TV monitors
Speaker 1: and she's really Baldwin six million dollars set up what
Speaker 1: is her last life? Because it's one of those things
Speaker 1: where cattle, she says, and then hard carpet. Yes, it's amazing,
Speaker 1: I laughed out loud. I how that that's one of
Speaker 1: the best going back, because I was like, is that
Speaker 1: really what she said? It's astounding that it plays out
Speaker 1: that way. It's just funny because that is the most
Speaker 1: nineties thing about it. I think like that's the one
Speaker 1: thing that does that feels old. Is that, like that
Speaker 1: kind of like get a life about anybody who's like
Speaker 1: like into video games or into like the Internet or
Speaker 1: anything like that, Like computers are from nerds a little
Speaker 1: did we know? Um? I mean, like I kind of
Speaker 1: want to watch it again because I feel like I
Speaker 1: feel like it's got such an odd balance, and I
Speaker 1: think a lot of it is probably because of that
Speaker 1: changed ending. Like I mean, I wrote down the thing
Speaker 1: about the volcano because he does mention to her that
Speaker 1: he has always wanted to fly into a volcano when
Speaker 1: she's at his apartment that Zeke does he has this
Speaker 1: like creepy glass phalic a volcano on his coffee. It's like,
Speaker 1: without knowing that that's the that was the original ending,
Speaker 1: it just sounds like a really really strange double entendre,
Speaker 1: like I'd love to. Uh, And yeah, there's all the
Speaker 1: like do you have Like I wrote down all of
Speaker 1: his messages like do you do you have any body
Speaker 1: parts that hurt? I miss you? I can still smell you, like,
Speaker 1: and then the and then the clip art of the
Speaker 1: Rose clip art of the Rose God. Yeah. No, it's
Speaker 1: the stuff with the surveillance comes so late in it
Speaker 1: that I think, like, if I was to remix this movie,
Speaker 1: that would come at least halfway through, like where she
Speaker 1: would get involved in it and become the person who's
Speaker 1: watching stuff, because then that feels like what the movie
Speaker 1: is actually about in a way. It feels like it
Speaker 1: takes a really long time to get there, and then
Speaker 1: once you get there, like, oh okay, I see what
Speaker 1: this has all been about. But um, yeah, but I
Speaker 1: thought it wasn't I liked it. Yeah, I was into it.
Speaker 1: It was it definitely belonged in the disgust of the
Speaker 1: erotic thriller. Before we wrap up, I wanted to ask
Speaker 1: Garna like how she felt the kind of erotic thriller
Speaker 1: boom like has its place in this history, because I
Speaker 1: didn't realize how many erotic thrillers just exploded after fatal attraction. Um.
Speaker 1: But again repping that erotic thriller Wikipedia, that something did
Speaker 1: the Lord's work on, I was like, nice, over three
Speaker 1: hundred and maybe closer to five hundred um erotic thrillers
Speaker 1: produced in the nineties, which is like, it just seems
Speaker 1: we have a lot of work to do you guys,
Speaker 1: to see all of you, and there's all there's there's
Speaker 1: levels of highbrow and lowbrow. Uh yeah, but why do
Speaker 1: you think, like what besides the kind of like VHS
Speaker 1: direct to video kind of you know, making that a
Speaker 1: good movie to watch at home. Um, that's definitely part
Speaker 1: of it. I mean, I think that if you talk
Speaker 1: about this sort of the historical trajectory on that Wikipedia
Speaker 1: pH it says that the first erotic thriller was Double Indemnity,
Speaker 1: which I think is incorrect, Like I certainly couldn't think
Speaker 1: of movies that would qualify that came earlier. And also
Speaker 1: I feel like the problem with calling Double Indemnity an
Speaker 1: Eurotic thriller is that, like it begins with Fred McMurray
Speaker 1: being like, I know, like everything's over and I'm fucked now,
Speaker 1: but let me explain to you what happened, and so
Speaker 1: you know, like it's a bad idea for him to
Speaker 1: hook up with Barbara Standwick. And I feel like part
Speaker 1: of the thing about erotic thrillers is that you have
Speaker 1: to like suspend disbelief and you have there has to
Speaker 1: be like a portion of the movie where you're like,
Speaker 1: this is hot, like maybe this will work out so
Speaker 1: nine and a half, but is like wildly sexy too,
Speaker 1: Like I was very I saw it somewhat recently, and
Speaker 1: I was like, it's very like like not at all
Speaker 1: veiled in its sexuality, and like, you know, all these
Speaker 1: ladies thrones themselves at Fred McMurray. It's right, right, right,
Speaker 1: But I mean, I think that the reason why they're
Speaker 1: obviously like weren't as many erotic thrillers until you know,
Speaker 1: let's say the late sixties into the seventies, is because
Speaker 1: of the censorship. You know, there was coded literally coded
Speaker 1: ways in which you could have sexuality in films, and
Speaker 1: especially the way that you'd have to have somebody be
Speaker 1: punished if they were having like pre marital or extra
Speaker 1: maritals too. They always get punished, and you don't have
Speaker 1: a success, can't play right, right, right, So and that
Speaker 1: stuff starts to breakdown in the sixties, and then you
Speaker 1: also have this wave of filmmakers like Brian to Palmer.
Speaker 1: There the first generation of like film school or cinephile
Speaker 1: American filmmakers who have grown up watching Hitchcock, grown up
Speaker 1: watching films like you know, these proto erotic thrillers like
Speaker 1: film noirs, the Postman Always Rings twice, things like this,
Speaker 1: and then Bob Rayfulson like remakes the Postman Always Rings twice,
Speaker 1: like you know, even something like Chinatown is like int
Speaker 1: is like a kind of sexier update of these previous
Speaker 1: genre films. And then moving into the eighties and nineties, um,
Speaker 1: you have the explosion of the home video market, the
Speaker 1: ex ocean of cable TV, and the possibility of being
Speaker 1: able to get around the rating system by releasing directors
Speaker 1: cuts and unrated versions of films, and so you have
Speaker 1: an incentive to like have a movie that like can
Speaker 1: be released theatrically as an R and then have a
Speaker 1: separate version to get people to pay for it twice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it works perfect genre for that stage exactly. So is
Speaker 1: this your favorite one in the in the cannon? Would
Speaker 1: you say? Or do you have any other other favor
Speaker 1: I mean this is kind of a sentimental favorite, I
Speaker 1: would say. And another one that I also remember seeing
Speaker 1: in the movie theater at too young an age and
Speaker 1: went to by myself was in Decent Proposal. I really
Speaker 1: like Adrian Adrian Lines movies. I wish he'd make another one.
Speaker 1: A few years ago he announced that he was making
Speaker 1: a movie with Nicole Kidman and I, Oh, my god,
Speaker 1: I hope that happens. Put it out. We'll put it
Speaker 1: out into the on the airway. We're officially like, this
Speaker 1: is an Adrian in this house. We respect like that
Speaker 1: is our big time. That between Fatal Attraction and and
Speaker 1: a half weeks, it's like we're all in. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I love nine and a half weeks. I love Unfaithful. Um,
Speaker 1: you feel so good. I feel like we might have
Speaker 1: to talk about that if this erotic Odyssey deep into
Speaker 1: the future. And another one I just wanted to mention
Speaker 1: a movie that I didn't really like it first but
Speaker 1: has really grown on me over time is in the cut.
Speaker 1: That's when I hear in the cut really like grows
Speaker 1: on people. They can't really let it go and then
Speaker 1: come fond of it. I wrote like a big thing
Speaker 1: in graduate school about it and Meg Ryan and like
Speaker 1: her kind of using the erotic thriller as a way
Speaker 1: of changing her persona and kind of like comparing that
Speaker 1: movie to when Harry met Sally, where like that persona
Speaker 1: was like I like fake orgasms, like I don't have
Speaker 1: I don't have genuine sexual pleasure. And then in the
Speaker 1: cut is like, you know, she's just like naked with
Speaker 1: Mark Ruffalo in a very exciting way. Um. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: this has been great. I'm really I'm really glad to
Speaker 1: hear by. I talked to us about this and yes,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. It was really fun. You are
Speaker 1: the original original podcast girl in Hoodie, a Jason person.
Speaker 1: So we and also we have to shout out Kreena.
Speaker 1: I don't know if we mentioned that she was at
Speaker 1: the first Night Call Night event um where we summoned
Speaker 1: Satan at history of that night. Yes, so we're forever
Speaker 1: indebted to Karina. Thank you so much for coming by.
Speaker 1: And where can we Where can people follow you online?
Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Karina Longworth and you can find
Speaker 1: my podcast you must remember this um on iTunes or
Speaker 1: wherever you get podcasts. There's a hundred forty five episodes
Speaker 1: and hopefully someday there will be more. It's like not
Speaker 1: quite plenty to get, it's like enough to keep you
Speaker 1: busy for a long time, and it's really really great.
Speaker 1: It's always a good listen. Um, well, thank you everybody.
Speaker 1: We're listening to Night Call this week. Be sure to
Speaker 1: subscribe to us on iTunes and give us a rain
Speaker 1: and a review. You can also follow us on Twitter
Speaker 1: at Night Call Podu, Instagram at Night Called Podcast, and
Speaker 1: Facebook at Night Called Podcast. We will be back in
Speaker 1: two weeks. We were taking a week off and we'll
Speaker 1: have Molly back the whole game. We'll be back together,
Speaker 1: so we will see you then, hie bye bye Okay,