1
00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,760
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how

2
00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:13,760
Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

3
00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,960
Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Dowdy and I'm deleted chalk Rewarding and today's

4
00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,520
Speaker 1: subject is going to be Wanta of Cass Steele. And

5
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:24,120
Speaker 1: it's a really popular suggestion. But full disclosure, I originally

6
00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,480
Speaker 1: chose it as a Halloween topic. I feel kind of

7
00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:28,360
Speaker 1: like you a few weeks ago, where you were admitting

8
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,920
Speaker 1: one of your topics was Han Dipple. Yes, John Dipple

9
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,680
Speaker 1: was supposed to have been a Halloween topic, but I

10
00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,400
Speaker 1: believe you had a delayed book order. I did, what's

11
00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,600
Speaker 1: your excuse? I also I had a little bit of

12
00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,520
Speaker 1: a delay. I had a library book on order. Um.

13
00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,280
Speaker 1: But I also just realized it was a way more

14
00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,839
Speaker 1: complex story than I was anticipating. And and once I

15
00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:54,440
Speaker 1: got into the story, I realized it wasn't really a

16
00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,640
Speaker 1: Halloween episode at all, even though the legends surrounding it

17
00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:04,400
Speaker 1: certainly suggest of Halloween nightmarish sort of air to it.

18
00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,479
Speaker 1: I want a story that really gets dwarfed by her

19
00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:11,760
Speaker 1: more famous family members, her parents, Ferdinand and Isabella, the

20
00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:16,399
Speaker 1: Catholic monarchs who combined the powers of their respective kingdoms

21
00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:21,160
Speaker 1: Aragon and Castile, her grandson Philip the second of Armada

22
00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:25,160
Speaker 1: fame her sister Catherine of Aragon, who is the wife

23
00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,120
Speaker 1: that Henry the eighth cast aside to marry Anne Boleyn.

24
00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,240
Speaker 1: She's probably the most famous of all. Um. You can

25
00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,760
Speaker 1: see why I want to get almost lost in the mix.

26
00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:36,920
Speaker 1: So consequently, pretty much all that ever gets said about

27
00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,000
Speaker 1: Wanna was that she was crazy, but she rant and

28
00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:42,720
Speaker 1: raved to get her way, but she was so madly

29
00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,160
Speaker 1: in love with her husband she kept his dead body

30
00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,200
Speaker 1: on hand, opening the coffin lid, gazing at it, kissing

31
00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:54,120
Speaker 1: his feet. Thus we have Wanna Loloca or Joanna the mad,

32
00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,680
Speaker 1: and that's often the way the requests come in. They

33
00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,520
Speaker 1: want to know about this crazy person, and that Wanna

34
00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,640
Speaker 1: was crazy easy explains away the nearly fifty years that

35
00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,640
Speaker 1: she spent in confinement, not allowed to write, not allowed

36
00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,480
Speaker 1: to visit the nearby convent, and eventually kept to one room,

37
00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,680
Speaker 1: though she was in her own right Queen of Castile.

38
00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:17,079
Speaker 1: But the real story here is really so much more

39
00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,239
Speaker 1: interesting and raises a lot of good questions. For example,

40
00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:25,840
Speaker 1: was Wanta really mentally unbalanced? And why did the most

41
00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:28,840
Speaker 1: important people in her life, her husband, her father, or

42
00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,400
Speaker 1: her son, why did they allow her to be treated

43
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,440
Speaker 1: as she was? And finally, why, when she had the

44
00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,000
Speaker 1: chance didn't she do the same by them? So, as

45
00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,560
Speaker 1: you can tell, this is a pretty massive subject with

46
00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,200
Speaker 1: a lot of complexities, and we're gonna take two episodes

47
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,960
Speaker 1: to discuss it. Um Plus, I just think since people

48
00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:50,320
Speaker 1: have been asking for this topic since the beginning, I'm

49
00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,360
Speaker 1: pretty sure we need to do right by it. But

50
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,720
Speaker 1: one of ultimate fate, which was of course being locked

51
00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,600
Speaker 1: up in Tordo Seas Castle, had a lot to do

52
00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,959
Speaker 1: with her birth and obviously because of who her parents were,

53
00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,440
Speaker 1: Ferdinand and Isabella, but also because of her birth order.

54
00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,600
Speaker 1: She was the third child, with a brother and a

55
00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,880
Speaker 1: sister ahead of her, so it was never expected that

56
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,320
Speaker 1: she would come into the inheritance she did. Her mother

57
00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,160
Speaker 1: was Isabella of Castile, who was a woman of intense

58
00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:23,160
Speaker 1: religious conviction. I mean, hello Spanish Inquisition. That's probably the

59
00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:27,520
Speaker 1: other main association you have with one of Jannah's family members. Um.

60
00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:30,160
Speaker 1: But Isabella, as a young woman had fought really hard

61
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,280
Speaker 1: to snatch her own throne from a competing family claim,

62
00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,880
Speaker 1: and and really had a lot of force in her

63
00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:41,640
Speaker 1: personality her father. Wanna's father rather, was Ferdinand the second

64
00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,880
Speaker 1: of Aragon, and this couple had arranged their own marriage

65
00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,320
Speaker 1: in fourteen sixty nine, and while the partnership didn't officially

66
00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,000
Speaker 1: unite their kingdoms, I mean both kingdoms even maintain their

67
00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:58,080
Speaker 1: own currencies, it did provide a certain amount of unity.

68
00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,920
Speaker 1: They were each acting as mona and consort, and it

69
00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,000
Speaker 1: was a very cooperative sort of marriage. The couple carried

70
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:09,680
Speaker 1: out the reconquista together with former podcast subject and um

71
00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,440
Speaker 1: prevented a front, at least to their people that their

72
00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,360
Speaker 1: kingdoms were allied. But of course all these joint acts

73
00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,479
Speaker 1: of theirs, all this cooperation hinged on the both of

74
00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,080
Speaker 1: them being alive or at least uniting their kingdoms permanently

75
00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,080
Speaker 1: through their children. But for the first seven years that

76
00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,640
Speaker 1: they were married, it seemed like the air that would

77
00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,080
Speaker 1: have to do this was unfortunately, or unfortunately in their eyes.

78
00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:35,760
Speaker 1: A girl, a girl who was also named Isabella after

79
00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,839
Speaker 1: her mother. Then, miraculously, in fourteen seventy eight, fernand and

80
00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,200
Speaker 1: Isabella had a second child, a son named Juan, followed

81
00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,039
Speaker 1: quickly by three more daughters. Juanna, who was born in

82
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,800
Speaker 1: fourteen seventy nine, then Maria and then Catherine. And while

83
00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,520
Speaker 1: the junior Isabella had been raised to be a possible queen,

84
00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:55,520
Speaker 1: the younger daughters were raised to be consorts because their

85
00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,880
Speaker 1: parents naturally assumed that their brother Juan would now inherit

86
00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,720
Speaker 1: their kingdoms. Which is not to say that they didn't

87
00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,520
Speaker 1: lead an unusually adventurous life for Princesses One and her sisters.

88
00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,240
Speaker 1: I mean, Queen Isabella was intensely interested in supervising her

89
00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:13,520
Speaker 1: children's educations and their religious instruction, and she didn't let

90
00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,599
Speaker 1: her multi year conflict with the more stop her from

91
00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,279
Speaker 1: keeping a really close eye on how things were progressing

92
00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,400
Speaker 1: with all of them. She took the kids on the

93
00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,039
Speaker 1: road with her, something that was occasionally dangerous, like when

94
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,600
Speaker 1: the family tent caught fire, and they were even there

95
00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,040
Speaker 1: when Ferdinand and Isabella took control of the Alambra. Deblina

96
00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,520
Speaker 1: and I were talking about this beforehand. It seemed like

97
00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:37,520
Speaker 1: Ferdinand and Isabella more than your average monarchs. And you know,

98
00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,240
Speaker 1: we've done a lot of these sad royal childhood stories.

99
00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,800
Speaker 1: Now um really seemed to have raised their kids and

100
00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,600
Speaker 1: and I think that something important to remember going forward

101
00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,920
Speaker 1: to that these would have been role models to them,

102
00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,200
Speaker 1: not just from like well you are my lady, the queen,

103
00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,039
Speaker 1: my lord, the father, but somebody who they really knew

104
00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,840
Speaker 1: closely as well. But the girls were really well educated.

105
00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:05,159
Speaker 1: They learned Latin and politics, religion, music, and dancing, plus

106
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,400
Speaker 1: a lot of domestic skills like baking and spinning and weaving.

107
00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,320
Speaker 1: According to Julia Fox, who wrote the book Sister Queens,

108
00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,760
Speaker 1: they would have been some of the best educated women

109
00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,599
Speaker 1: of their day. Really, with one pretty major oversight, at

110
00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,680
Speaker 1: least for girls who were meant to be consorts abroad,

111
00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,120
Speaker 1: girls who would be marrying into foreign courts to established

112
00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,160
Speaker 1: diplomatic relations, and that was modern languages. I mean they

113
00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,799
Speaker 1: were learning Latin that they weren't learning French, they weren't

114
00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:38,120
Speaker 1: learning English. A bit of a problem. But among this

115
00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:43,200
Speaker 1: especially close and talented family, Juana was really considered the beauty.

116
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,440
Speaker 1: She had auburn hair, she had blue eyes, and she

117
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,960
Speaker 1: was supposed to have really closely resembled her namesake to

118
00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:55,560
Speaker 1: Ferdinand's mother, Juanna Enriquez. She apparently resembled her so much

119
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,839
Speaker 1: that Isabella would sometimes call her daughter mother in law.

120
00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:03,240
Speaker 1: According to the Women in World History Encyclopedia, Having a

121
00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,839
Speaker 1: much older sister also meant that Juanna, Maria, and Catherine

122
00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,080
Speaker 1: got a peek at their future as consorts when they

123
00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,680
Speaker 1: were still kids. So they got a glimpse at all

124
00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,360
Speaker 1: the pageantry that came with the wedding and the importance

125
00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,760
Speaker 1: of a political alliance, and even the responsibility that came

126
00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,440
Speaker 1: with it. But also they got to look at what

127
00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,720
Speaker 1: it meant for someone to part the family. To leave

128
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,520
Speaker 1: the family, you realistically expect to never see them again

129
00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,840
Speaker 1: in this scenario. So when their eldest sister, Isabella left

130
00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,800
Speaker 1: home in fourteen ninety to marry the Portuguese king, they

131
00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:36,560
Speaker 1: got to see all of this. But just seven months later,

132
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:39,520
Speaker 1: her husband was thrown from his horse and killed, so

133
00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:43,120
Speaker 1: Isabella came home and she was devastated. So this was

134
00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,360
Speaker 1: likely a pretty formative event and all the kids lives,

135
00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,160
Speaker 1: and one that showed just how fragile these really long

136
00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:53,040
Speaker 1: planned alliances could be. Eventually, though, it was of course,

137
00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,600
Speaker 1: the younger children's turned to marry and Ferdinand and Isabella

138
00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,920
Speaker 1: really seemed to have wrapped things up neatly and efficiently.

139
00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,000
Speaker 1: They of course still had the widowed Isabella on their hands,

140
00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,920
Speaker 1: and they wanted to remarry her. Um in this case,

141
00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,520
Speaker 1: to her dead husband's brother, who was the new King

142
00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:15,120
Speaker 1: of Portugal Manuel, their middle daughter, Maria, they decided to

143
00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:18,800
Speaker 1: keep in reserve, and that's because Isabella was so upset

144
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,040
Speaker 1: being widowed that she was trying to get out of

145
00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:27,239
Speaker 1: any remarriage entirely. She wanted to perhaps even enter a convent.

146
00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,880
Speaker 1: So we're gonna keep Maria in hand just in case

147
00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,439
Speaker 1: Isabella didn't come through on that alliance. Catherine, who was

148
00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,640
Speaker 1: still just a very young girl at the time, would

149
00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,600
Speaker 1: eventually go on to marry the eldest son of Henry

150
00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,760
Speaker 1: the seventh of England, Prince Arthur. That's also a really

151
00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:46,760
Speaker 1: great story Katherine marrying Arthur and her widowhood and eventually

152
00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,320
Speaker 1: marrying Arthur's brother, Henry the eighth. And then finally, and

153
00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,320
Speaker 1: this is the part that really concerns our story, Wanna

154
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:57,440
Speaker 1: and Juan would marry a brother and sister from Burgundy,

155
00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,320
Speaker 1: Philip and Margaret, who were the children of the Holy

156
00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,120
Speaker 1: Roman Emperor Maximilian, and this dual marriage, I mean, I

157
00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,760
Speaker 1: know it sounds kind of strange, but it was a

158
00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,360
Speaker 1: really good deal on both sides, at least for the

159
00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,719
Speaker 1: from the parents perspective. It was a double strong alliance.

160
00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,320
Speaker 1: For one thing, there was no need for a dowry.

161
00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,439
Speaker 1: And it was even convenient in terms of transportation. I mean,

162
00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:20,120
Speaker 1: at least if the kids were kind of all the

163
00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,680
Speaker 1: same age, like, we'll send our daughter on one ship

164
00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,880
Speaker 1: and you could we'll pick up yours and take her

165
00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:30,000
Speaker 1: back to Spain. And it was pretty efficient, pretty efficient

166
00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,600
Speaker 1: from from there the way that they saw thing, and

167
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,160
Speaker 1: it was considered a pretty good match for sixteen year

168
00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,160
Speaker 1: old wanted to. For one thing, she dodged a bullet

169
00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,480
Speaker 1: by not having to marry the widowed Maximilian herself. His son,

170
00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,680
Speaker 1: Philip was just a year older than her and had

171
00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,920
Speaker 1: the nickname Philip the Fair or Philip the Handsome, So

172
00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:50,600
Speaker 1: coming from a sixteen year old girl's point of view,

173
00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,880
Speaker 1: that's probably a good catch, something kind of enticing. And

174
00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,360
Speaker 1: while she only stood to become Archduchess on her marriage,

175
00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,680
Speaker 1: Philip was well positioned to become the next Holy Roman

176
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,960
Speaker 1: Emperor after his father, which was not an inherited position.

177
00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,640
Speaker 1: He had to have the right political connections essentially, So

178
00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:14,520
Speaker 1: Wanna left Laredo August with a fleet of one hundred ships.

179
00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:18,680
Speaker 1: Bad weather delayed her party, wrecked a ship and meant

180
00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:22,200
Speaker 1: that she missed her fiance. When she finally got to Burgundy.

181
00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:25,360
Speaker 1: She eventually met up with Philip in October, so months

182
00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:29,520
Speaker 1: months later, but a week before their planned wedding. When

183
00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:33,640
Speaker 1: Philip saw her, though, he was apparently so captivated by

184
00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:37,480
Speaker 1: her beauty that he ordered the priest marry them then

185
00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,360
Speaker 1: and there. So that seems like, I mean, it's kind

186
00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,880
Speaker 1: of a fairy tale princess sort of story. Right. She

187
00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:47,680
Speaker 1: marries her, her handsome prince. He's only a year older

188
00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:51,920
Speaker 1: than her, He's well positioned to become Holy Roman Emperor.

189
00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:58,240
Speaker 1: Good deal. Right, Maybe not so much, because while things

190
00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,959
Speaker 1: may have briefly been idyllic with Wanta and Philip and

191
00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,960
Speaker 1: love and with Wanna able to live a freer life

192
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:07,119
Speaker 1: in Brussels, then she ever had at home with dances

193
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:09,839
Speaker 1: parties to go to, and she got to wear these

194
00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:14,480
Speaker 1: daring Flemish stresses. But it didn't last very long. The

195
00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:18,480
Speaker 1: couple seemed to maintain their intense physical attraction for pretty

196
00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:22,320
Speaker 1: much their entire marriage, but Philip soon became emotionally and

197
00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:27,800
Speaker 1: possibly even physically abusive, and he wasn't exactly faithful either, which,

198
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,640
Speaker 1: of course no wife wants that. But for her part,

199
00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,520
Speaker 1: Wanna reacted to Philip's infidelities in a way that would

200
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,360
Speaker 1: have been considered unseemly for a consort of the time.

201
00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,880
Speaker 1: Fox mentions how Isabella, despite her strong marriage of equals

202
00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,040
Speaker 1: with Ferdinand, just kind of turned a blind eye on

203
00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,439
Speaker 1: his illegitimate children, but Wanna did no such thing. She

204
00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:53,160
Speaker 1: would make scenes and was intensely jealous of any woman

205
00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,320
Speaker 1: that Philip came in contact with. She'd starve herself in

206
00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,920
Speaker 1: protest or go without sleep. But Philip was also really

207
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,800
Speaker 1: manipulative and controlling as well. He not only allowed her

208
00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,200
Speaker 1: no interest in governing, which I mean she might not

209
00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,240
Speaker 1: have expected that as a consort, but at least something

210
00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:11,440
Speaker 1: for her to do. He didn't allow her anything like that,

211
00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,520
Speaker 1: but he also controlled her own household and her personnel,

212
00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,320
Speaker 1: which was something that was a that was a very

213
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:22,000
Speaker 1: unusual decision to do that. He also managed all her finances,

214
00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,360
Speaker 1: and I mean you might think of monarchs as like

215
00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,400
Speaker 1: couples with a joint checking account. That was not the case.

216
00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:31,240
Speaker 1: Queens had their own lands, their own rents, their own bills,

217
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,960
Speaker 1: their own staff to handle businesses. I mean they would

218
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,040
Speaker 1: bring a lot of that in perhaps with the dowry,

219
00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:38,960
Speaker 1: but also some might be gifts from their husband, but

220
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:44,000
Speaker 1: they would manage it separately from from all of his possessions.

221
00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,760
Speaker 1: Philip didn't let want to do that, and then he

222
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:52,199
Speaker 1: also stopped giving her the money due through their marriage agreement. Eventually, Isabella,

223
00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,320
Speaker 1: who was kind of she was hearing rumors about what

224
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,600
Speaker 1: was going on with her daughter, kind of concerned with

225
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,480
Speaker 1: her daughter's religious state and whether she was as devout

226
00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,360
Speaker 1: as she ought to be, but also what was going

227
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,559
Speaker 1: on with the marriage. She sent an envoy called Friar

228
00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,800
Speaker 1: to Moss to investigate the situation, and he reported back

229
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,520
Speaker 1: that Juanna didn't even have money for alms, and since

230
00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,160
Speaker 1: she couldn't pay her own servants, most of the Spanish

231
00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:21,360
Speaker 1: one's ditched or eventually and opened up space for Philip's

232
00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:25,440
Speaker 1: own picks to come in um basically endless numbers of

233
00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,280
Speaker 1: spies to to watch Wana's every move well and then

234
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,920
Speaker 1: probably most ominously. Friar Thomas also reported that Wanna told

235
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,600
Speaker 1: him if she complained quote, she receives a great injury

236
00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,880
Speaker 1: from it, so suggesting that she's being hurt in the

237
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,480
Speaker 1: process as well to the world. Though these two still

238
00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,840
Speaker 1: seemed like a happy couple. Philip dressed her up for

239
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:51,920
Speaker 1: public appearances and they would dine in public together. He

240
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,320
Speaker 1: would give her costly jewelry, and they even have babies together,

241
00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:59,679
Speaker 1: eventually an air and a spare and four daughters too,

242
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,080
Speaker 1: so a lot of kids. One obnoxious note about that, though,

243
00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:06,800
Speaker 1: when their first child turned out to be a girl. Disappointed,

244
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:11,199
Speaker 1: Philip basically told Wanna, you know the expenses on you wife.

245
00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:13,560
Speaker 1: I'll pay for a boy if you have one, but

246
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:18,440
Speaker 1: you can handle the daughter. Um. But back to back

247
00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,960
Speaker 1: to Spain. We've been catching up on all of what

248
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,480
Speaker 1: was going on in Burgundy between Wanna and Philip, but

249
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,960
Speaker 1: as their marriage was crumbling, her family underwent this series

250
00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:33,960
Speaker 1: of marriages and births and unexpected deaths that ultimately resulted

251
00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:36,960
Speaker 1: in the most unlikely of events, and that was, of course,

252
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:41,160
Speaker 1: Wanna becoming Air to Aragon and Castile. So first of all,

253
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:44,000
Speaker 1: we should backtrack to the double marriage between the two

254
00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,000
Speaker 1: brothers and sister sets. So while Wanna was sent off

255
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,880
Speaker 1: to Burgundy to marry Philip, Philip seventeen year old sister

256
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:55,720
Speaker 1: Margaret was sent to Spain to marry Juanna's older brother Juan.

257
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,920
Speaker 1: Everybody's got all that straight This couple also experienced three

258
00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:05,560
Speaker 1: marital happiness, but in October, after only six months of marriage,

259
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:11,440
Speaker 1: Juan suddenly sickened and died. He was only twenty years old. Um,

260
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:14,080
Speaker 1: things got worse. Margaret turned out to be pregnant, but

261
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,280
Speaker 1: she miscarried. Uh. It seemed like things were in a

262
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,720
Speaker 1: bad state for Ferdinand and Isabella's family, and this meant

263
00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,560
Speaker 1: that Juana's eldest sister, Isabella was again air. She had

264
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,640
Speaker 1: finally overcome her grief at her first husband's death to

265
00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:31,040
Speaker 1: marry his brother, and had only recently gone to Portugal

266
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,760
Speaker 1: when the news of Juan's death came to her, and

267
00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,840
Speaker 1: she and her husband, King Manuel returned to Spain to

268
00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:41,440
Speaker 1: be recognized by the courtis and Assembly representing the nobility

269
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,680
Speaker 1: and talents of the kingdom. Isabella too turned out to

270
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:47,640
Speaker 1: be pregnant and gave birth to her son Miguel in Spain,

271
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:52,480
Speaker 1: but she died shortly after childbirth, and ultimately her sister Maria,

272
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,720
Speaker 1: the one who had sort of been held in reserve,

273
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:59,080
Speaker 1: was sent off to Mary Manuel, making this story even

274
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 1: more complicated, very confusing. The family tree gets a little

275
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,040
Speaker 1: tight in there, but um, at this point, clearly all

276
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:09,640
Speaker 1: the hopes were on this baby boy, Miguel, whose father

277
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,560
Speaker 1: even agreed for him to be raised by his grandparents

278
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,760
Speaker 1: in Spain rather than Portugal. I mean, he seemed very obliging.

279
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,400
Speaker 1: But little Miguel lived only two years and died in

280
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:26,040
Speaker 1: fifteen hundred. So suddenly Juanna is the eldest of her

281
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:31,520
Speaker 1: parents children, no grandchildren from the siblings above her, and

282
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,720
Speaker 1: therefore heir to her parents lands, a situation that was

283
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:39,280
Speaker 1: unimaginable to Ferdinand, to Isabella, and to Wanna herself, but

284
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,440
Speaker 1: immensely attractive to her husband Philip, who, certainly, if he

285
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,840
Speaker 1: wouldn't allow her to be a consort, you know, to

286
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,560
Speaker 1: manage her own household as his consort, he certainly had

287
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:56,520
Speaker 1: no intention of letting her rule as her own monarch,

288
00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:58,680
Speaker 1: you know, as a rule her own lands as queen

289
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,200
Speaker 1: to the Catholic Martin. Though it was a disturbing situation

290
00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,240
Speaker 1: since Wanna was so clearly under Philip's control, as Isabella

291
00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,399
Speaker 1: knew from Friar Thomas's reports, and since Philip, being from Burgundy,

292
00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:14,520
Speaker 1: was not as unabashedly pro Spanish as they might have hoped.

293
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,600
Speaker 1: In fact, on the way to Spain, Philip insisted that

294
00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:20,600
Speaker 1: they traveled by land, though it took much longer and

295
00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,280
Speaker 1: Wuanna was pregnant with their third child at the time,

296
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:25,480
Speaker 1: but he wanted to do this so that they could

297
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,960
Speaker 1: just kind of take a detour and swing by France.

298
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:33,159
Speaker 1: On the way there. He betrothed their baby Charles to Louis,

299
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,400
Speaker 1: the twelfth Daughter, something that Wanna is a good anti

300
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:41,240
Speaker 1: French Spanish princess just hated and Wanna just an interesting

301
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,600
Speaker 1: note here. Even though she was still just an archduchess.

302
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,600
Speaker 1: She also didn't acknowledge the French queen as her better

303
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,119
Speaker 1: and even wore only Spanish clothes at court. It's a

304
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,959
Speaker 1: spunky girl who was um and that's another important thing

305
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,280
Speaker 1: to consider, especially in the next episode. But fernand and

306
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,120
Speaker 1: Isabella still hoped that the Philip problem could be sort

307
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,679
Speaker 1: of ironed out, and they hoped they could do that

308
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,879
Speaker 1: by keeping the couple, the young couple and their kids

309
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,840
Speaker 1: ideally in Spain with them, you know, training Wanna to

310
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,119
Speaker 1: become an independent monarch, as they had with their eldest

311
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,480
Speaker 1: daughter Isabella when she was a girl. Teaching Philip about

312
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,560
Speaker 1: his new country how it worked, trying to get him

313
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,720
Speaker 1: to have an appreciation of it, but Philip was just

314
00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:28,520
Speaker 1: completely uninterested in this, and he was there for for

315
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:32,719
Speaker 1: two things, essentially for the approval of the courts of

316
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,280
Speaker 1: Castile and Aragon as Wanna as the heir and as

317
00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,280
Speaker 1: Philip as their consort. So he wanted to get that

318
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,480
Speaker 1: stamp of approval and then go home. And even though

319
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,159
Speaker 1: Wanna was by this point already pregnant with their fourth

320
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,640
Speaker 1: child and couldn't travel, he left anyway. He was going

321
00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,320
Speaker 1: back to Burgundy with or without her, So I Wanna

322
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,480
Speaker 1: had to stay in Spain for for a certain period

323
00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,080
Speaker 1: of time to deliver her baby. She did that the

324
00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:05,080
Speaker 1: second son, named Ferdinand, and then she was faced with

325
00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 1: a decision, and it was probably the most important decision

326
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,639
Speaker 1: of her life, or may have been, and that was

327
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,480
Speaker 1: whether to stay in Spain with her parents and her

328
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 1: her new baby or returned to her husband. It's hard

329
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,840
Speaker 1: to really speculate too much without indulging in all history here,

330
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,880
Speaker 1: but Isabella was offering her daughter the chance to learn

331
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:31,240
Speaker 1: the workings of government and to grow into an independent monarch.

332
00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,800
Speaker 1: Though it's it is arguable as to how much power

333
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,359
Speaker 1: Wana might have had with two parents as forceful of

334
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,640
Speaker 1: hers sort of leading the way, but at the very least, though,

335
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,800
Speaker 1: there was this chance to get away from her abusive

336
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:48,879
Speaker 1: husband Philip and live again in this luxurious, familiar life.

337
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,879
Speaker 1: But manipulative Philip knew that as an unpopular foreigner, his

338
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 1: Spanish claim really revolved around having Wanna under his thumb,

339
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,879
Speaker 1: so he was probably regretting leaving without her at this point.

340
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,679
Speaker 1: I Wanna chose her husband though for some reason, whether

341
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 1: it was because she loved him, or maybe she missed

342
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 1: her other older children because Philip had made little Charles

343
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,639
Speaker 1: write a letter to her begging her to come home,

344
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,119
Speaker 1: or she simply felt it was her role to play,

345
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 1: to go back and to be his wife, the loyal

346
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:26,719
Speaker 1: consort um. But Isabella wouldn't agree to it, and so

347
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,840
Speaker 1: Wanna finally protested in the most effective way. She knew

348
00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,120
Speaker 1: how when she had certainly honed at her during her

349
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,199
Speaker 1: time at Philip's court um and she didn't eat, and

350
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 1: she didn't sleep, she didn't talk. She'd stand in the

351
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,720
Speaker 1: rain and man to to be let be able to

352
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:47,160
Speaker 1: go home, and by fifteen o four Isabella finally let

353
00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,000
Speaker 1: her go. She convinced her to to leave baby fernand

354
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,760
Speaker 1: behind in Spain, since he was kind of young to travel. Um.

355
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,760
Speaker 1: It was clearly a fateful decision, and that's partly because

356
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,399
Speaker 1: Wanna threw in her lot with Philip, but also because

357
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,760
Speaker 1: she showed her mother and many other people back in

358
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 1: Spain that she might be a little unbalanced. All of

359
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:14,800
Speaker 1: these uncleanly sort of protests, Um, we're disturbing to folks,

360
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 1: and it turned out to be the perfect weapon for

361
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 1: Philip to gain Juanna's inheritance. But we're going to stop

362
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 1: there and talk about what happens later, what happens with Philip,

363
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 1: what happens with Ferdinand, what happens with Charles, who's this

364
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,400
Speaker 1: little kid at this point, um, and who ends up

365
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 1: getting to run Castile and Aragon he does. So we

366
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 1: will be discussing all of that in a second episode.

367
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,880
Speaker 1: So what kind of listener mail do we have today, Sarah? Well,

368
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,520
Speaker 1: we have one that I chose because it was pretty charming,

369
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: but it also has a Spanish reference in it, but

370
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,280
Speaker 1: I'll get to that the end. It's from listener Monica,

371
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,119
Speaker 1: and she wrote to say, I'm a fiction novel us

372
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 1: and I just love your podcast. When I'm writing, I

373
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,119
Speaker 1: always have you guys or Josh and Chuck from stuff

374
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 1: you should know on in the background without knowing it.

375
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 1: You guys have been a huge help when I'm looking

376
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:15,479
Speaker 1: for voices for my characters. Currently, Sarah, you give voice

377
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,919
Speaker 1: to the good queen, and Dablina you give voice to

378
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,480
Speaker 1: the heroine. When I finally published the first part of

379
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,960
Speaker 1: my book series, I'll be sure to send you both

380
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,159
Speaker 1: a copy. So that's very fun. You do have a

381
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,960
Speaker 1: very queenly thank you. You have the voice of the heroine.

382
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:36,399
Speaker 1: Um So. Monica does go on though to to mention

383
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: that she has a little bit of a connection to

384
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 1: the great Spanish hero El Sid, and suggested him as

385
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 1: a topic. Um Katie and I talked about his horse

386
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:51,000
Speaker 1: long ago in the History's Greatest Battle Horses that's at Um,

387
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,160
Speaker 1: but she thought that Elsid himself would make a pretty

388
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: excellence Objeck. So we want to go way back in

389
00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,679
Speaker 1: Spanish history, that would be a good place to start.

390
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,080
Speaker 1: We have another email here from Shannon in Texas and

391
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:06,640
Speaker 1: she says, I was so excited to see the subject

392
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,119
Speaker 1: of your most recent podcast, which is a different podcast

393
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 1: from probably the most recent one many of you have

394
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 1: listened to. If you're listening in order, it's the Jim

395
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 1: Booie podcast that she's referring to. She says, I have

396
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: a family connection to share. My dad is really into genealogy,

397
00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,880
Speaker 1: and in some book read of a dispute between Jim

398
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 1: Booie and one of my direct ancestors. Further research found

399
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 1: that my ancestors sold Louie land that wasn't his to sell.

400
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: So there is the instance of land speculation that infuriated

401
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 1: Booie and showed him that a profit was to be had.

402
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: While I was in high school fifteen years ago, we

403
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: took a little trip to the basement of a parish

404
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: courthouse in Louisiana and actually held the original bill of

405
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:48,400
Speaker 1: sale in our hands, complete with my ancestors and Booie's signatures.

406
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: Dad and I joked that we should have just walked

407
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: out with it. The digital picture isn't great. In the

408
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: courthouse apparently figured that they shouldn't allow just anyone to

409
00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:01,560
Speaker 1: produce their records unsupervised. Darn. Anyway, we were pretty blown

410
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,760
Speaker 1: away by that story. I mean, if if it's the

411
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: same guy, the one who kicked off Bouie in the

412
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 1: first place, realizing that this could be a business after

413
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,359
Speaker 1: he got cheated himself, that's pretty, pretty wild a good

414
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: ancestry story. It is so thank you guys, thank you

415
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: for suggestions for writing stories inspired by our voices. That's

416
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:29,080
Speaker 1: always cool. Um and just sharing suggestions too. Yeah, And

417
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 1: if you have any more suggestions to share with us,

418
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 1: you can write us at History Podcast at Discovery dot com,

419
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 1: or you can look us up on Facebook. We're also

420
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,680
Speaker 1: on Twitter at mist in history. And if you want

421
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: to learn a little bit more about Wanta's predicament, we

422
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 1: do have an article on how royalty works. You can

423
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 1: check that out by visiting our homepage at www dot

424
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com for more on this and

425
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,800
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot

426
00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 1: com that was named the land Named the land who