1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: I've never told you, a production of iHeartRadio. And today 3 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: we have another edition of Female First, which means we 4 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: are once again joined by the fabulous, fantastic Eves. 5 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 2: Welcome. 6 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 3: Hey, Hey, hey, y'all. So yeah, we've missed you. 7 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: We didn't didn't get to connect last month, but we're 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: so happy to have you again. And we were talking 9 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: off Mike, but one of the reasons that we didn't 10 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 1: get a female first last month was you were doing 11 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 1: a lot of travel, which we had discussed on the 12 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: last Female First. 13 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 2: How did that go? Did you get any inspiration? 14 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 4: You know, the travel went really well, and I actually 15 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 4: did get inspiration because I went to a Caribbean island, 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 4: specifically the one of Jamaica last month, and I had 17 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 4: a good time there. It was really lovely to spend 18 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,399 Speaker 4: time in the sunlight around so much water. I've been 19 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 4: really drawn to water lately, and today we will be 20 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 4: talking about a person from the Caribbean. So I did 21 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 4: get inspiration from that. Like we've talked about on previous episodes, 22 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 4: like I like to go places and think about like 23 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 4: the people who lived there in the past and learn 24 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 4: about them from people if I can, and I really 25 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 4: love to get to libraries and bookstores if I can, 26 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 4: but there it was kind of hard to find those 27 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 4: in where I was in Jamaica. We asked some of 28 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 4: the people who live there their recommendations. And I also 29 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 4: wasn't there that long, so I couldn't do really any 30 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 4: sort of like spend any much more deeper time on that. 31 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 4: I was with family, so I didn't get to do 32 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 4: as much as I wanted to. But hopefully on a 33 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 4: trip back, I can go and like find some more 34 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 4: things where I had some texts on some people. 35 00:01:55,560 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: Hopefully, Yes, were you able to plug from work last time? 36 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: We were talking about that and the. 37 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 4: Difficulty doing that, shaking my head solemnly, But I am 38 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 4: shaking my head solemnly because I did not. 39 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 3: I did. I was able to do it in a 40 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 3: very measured way. I will say. 41 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 4: I also went to a retreat out of state last month, 42 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 4: and I went to Jamaica as well. 43 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 3: Both of those are supposed to. 44 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 4: Be like, you know, chill, relaxing, I get some time off, 45 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 4: like truly get to unplug. 46 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:32,359 Speaker 3: But on both of those trips I was like. 47 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 4: All right, I'm done with the plenary session, like I'm 48 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 4: done with the lecture. Time to go work or before 49 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 4: I start my day, gotta get. 50 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:43,359 Speaker 3: Up to work. You know, I got to make sure 51 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 3: I meet this deadline. And I did a little. 52 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 4: I did a lot less of that in Jamaica than 53 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 4: I did on my retreat. So I did, Like the 54 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 4: hours weren't weren't so burning some of the amount of 55 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 4: work that I did then, So I have no plaints. 56 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 4: And I was like, I got to do it with 57 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 4: my legs up on a patio by fool, you know, yeah, 58 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 4: in the Caribbean some way, So you know, I'm not 59 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 4: who am I to complain about that? So not complete 60 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 4: loss is what you're saying. 61 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, yes, yes, Well I am so glad you're 62 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: bringing this story today, Eves. This is another one I 63 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: had not heard, and I can't believe I hadn't heard. 64 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: So who are we talking about today? 65 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 3: Today? 66 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 4: We were talking about Marie Luis Christophe, also known as 67 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 4: Marie Luis Croy da Vide. So she was the first 68 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 4: and only queen of the independent Haiti. And that's what 69 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 4: we're talking about. So I said, we're talking about Caribbean, 70 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 4: We're talking about Haiti. Specifically today, And yeah, I'm really 71 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 4: excited to get into it. 72 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: Yes, it is quite the history and I'm looking forward 73 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: to to hearing more about it because a lot of 74 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: times Samantha and I will do kind of a preliminary 75 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: research just so we know what we're talking about can 76 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: kind of keep up. But this one was difficult to 77 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: find some sources, especially like in early days. 78 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 3: Yes, so I'm. 79 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: Very excited to hear. I'm sure it was difficult for you. 80 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 4: Yes, it was, and that is the case for researchers 81 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 4: who are far more deep into her biography than I 82 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 4: am as well. 83 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 3: So you are not alone. I am not alone. 84 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 4: But as we always talk about here on Sminty on 85 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 4: female first specifically, I mean, just because we don't know 86 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 4: a lot about a person doesn't mean their story isn't 87 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 4: worth bringing to the forefront. That's the case for Marie 88 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 4: Luis Cloy Davide because she has a history in Haiti, 89 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 4: which obviously always it Haiti story deserves uplift men. And 90 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 4: when we talk about history, and we talk about the 91 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:55,520 Speaker 4: history of black people and independence and women's roles in 92 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 4: movements for independence and resistance movements, and she also has 93 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 4: a history of traveling the world. But the difficulty in 94 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 4: her story is that she doesn't have There aren't many 95 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 4: of her own personal writings left, So not only do 96 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 4: we not know as much about her earlier life, it's 97 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 4: like we don't know a lot from her own perspective 98 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 4: about what her life was like, and those are often, 99 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 4: you know, it not necessarily the most engaging parts, but 100 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 4: when you get to learn the smaller details of somebody's 101 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 4: life and how they view the world, that's where we 102 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 4: really get to understand people, I think, on a bit 103 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 4: more empathetic level outside of just oh, this is their 104 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 4: first this is their accomplishment, And unfortunately we don't have 105 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 4: a lot of that from her. But still her story 106 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:39,320 Speaker 4: deserves to be known and heard. 107 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, Well, with that said, shall we get into 108 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: the history. 109 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, let's do it. 110 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 4: So she was born in cat Francie, which is now 111 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 4: cap Icien, which is a town on the northern coast 112 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 4: of Haiti, and her birthday is listed as May eighth, 113 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 4: seventeen seventy eight, and she was reportedly born free so 114 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 4: details are fuzzy, like we were just talking about, you'll 115 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 4: see in some sources that it said her father was 116 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 4: the owner of a hotel, but that is very dubious information. 117 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 4: She had siblings, but there are also questionable facts surrounding 118 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 4: who some of them were, how many of them there were. 119 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 4: But she had her first child when she was sixteen 120 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 4: years old, and she was married to Henri Christophe, and 121 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 4: that's where we get her last name Christoph. So the 122 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 4: Haitian Revolution is a big part of her story. It 123 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 4: started in seventeen ninety one, which was a little bit 124 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 4: over a decade after she was born, and the revolution 125 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 4: ended in eighteen o four, and Marie Luis she married 126 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 4: on Rie Christoph, her husband, around seventeen ninety three, so 127 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 4: that was a couple of years after the revolution popped off. 128 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 4: I'm not so sure about the details of her marriage, 129 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:03,280 Speaker 4: like I would like to know a little bit more 130 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 4: about that, like really how they met, you know, what 131 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 4: their marriage was like, some of those details, because Rie 132 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 4: Christoph was a pretty big figure in Haiti and the 133 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 4: Haitian Revolution. 134 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 3: But I couldn't find much of that. 135 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 4: I really, I don't think a ton of that exists 136 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 4: in general, but I would love to know more about that, 137 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 4: because you know, her first is rooted and on Ri Christoph, 138 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 4: which we'll get to you in a second. But I 139 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 4: re we do know that he supported Toussaint Chure and 140 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 4: started fighting the French, the British and the Spanish and 141 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 4: the revolution, and he eventually became a general in the revolution. 142 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 4: And so just for a little bit about the Haitian Revolution, 143 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 4: I'm sure a lot of people, well, let me not 144 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 4: assume what everyone knows. But I think one of the 145 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 4: biggest facts that people will come across when they're talking 146 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 4: about the Haitian Revolution is that it was the only 147 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 4: time enslaved people, free people of color like fought for 148 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 4: their independence from colonization and succeeded, and that resulted in 149 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 4: a nation that was led by formerly enslaved people and 150 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 4: free people of color. Of course, there was a huge 151 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 4: upheaval after this one that continues to resonate till today. 152 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 4: Jean Jacques Dessaline, who was a formerly enslaved black man, 153 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,600 Speaker 4: became the first Emperor of Haiti after independence, but he 154 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 4: was assassinated in eighteen o six, so there was instability 155 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 4: after the end of the revolution. Politically, Haiti was soon 156 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 4: split into two, and that was the State of Haiti 157 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 4: in the north, and that was the Republic of Haiti 158 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 4: in the south. So that's a little bit on the 159 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 4: Haitian Revolution, just understanding the context of Marie and how 160 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 4: she was coming up in Haiti because she was still 161 00:08:55,440 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 4: relatively young at this time, and the context in which 162 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 4: Marie Louise's and Henri Christophe's marriage was. I mean, I 163 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,320 Speaker 4: mean he became a general in the revolution. You know, 164 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 4: he was putting a lot of its energy and efforts 165 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 4: in time toward the revolution during the time he was 166 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 4: married with Marie Louise. So all in all though they 167 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 4: ended up having four children, two sons and two daughters, 168 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 4: and her oldest son died under the guardianship of the 169 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 4: French government in eighteen oh five, and so there is 170 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 4: a little bit on Henrie Christoph as well. He ruled 171 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 4: the northern half of Haiti, the State of Haiti, and 172 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 4: in eighteen eleven the State of Haiti became a kingdom 173 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 4: and Henri proclaimed himself as king, and this is what 174 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 4: made Marie Louise the first queen of independent Haiti. So 175 00:09:52,800 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 4: this is where her first comes in. And I'm ree 176 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 4: he believed a single hereditary ruler would be the best 177 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 4: move for Haiti, so he set up this whole elaborate 178 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 4: hereditary nobility, and he instituted and enforced a system of 179 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 4: labor on plantations where workers didn't make wages and instead 180 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 4: they got a fourth of the gross product that was 181 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 4: free from duties. His government also captured ships with enslaved 182 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 4: people on them and liberated them, and Imri was in 183 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 4: regular contact with British abolitionists. He had artists, scientists, and 184 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 4: English teachers brought to Haiti to teach students. So even 185 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 4: though I'm not exactly sure what his marriage to Marie 186 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 4: Luis looked like in great detail, they definitely lived a 187 00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 4: lavish lifestyle. I've seen that he apparently had mistresses. I 188 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 4: don't want to read too much in that. I mean, 189 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 4: I'm here for the drama and stories a lot of 190 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 4: the times, but it's really not that integral to the 191 00:11:12,520 --> 00:11:16,319 Speaker 4: story we're telling about Marie Louise today, okay, because they 192 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 4: are not her. But by eighteen twenty, Henri's health wasn't 193 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:26,839 Speaker 4: great and people were uprising against his rule. And on 194 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 4: October eighth, eighteen twenty, Henri died by suicide. And I 195 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 4: don't want to focus too much on Anrie Christoph's story. 196 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 4: He does you can you know, people can go research 197 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 4: more about his story. There is far more detail about 198 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 4: his story. People can look up some of why they 199 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 4: were uprising against his rule. 200 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 3: There are records of the. 201 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 4: Types of systems that he instituted, why people didn't like 202 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 4: what he was doing, why people did like his rule. 203 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 4: There's a lot more information on the political ins and 204 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 4: outs of his biography, So that is also fascinating, and 205 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 4: I think, in its own right, can show a little 206 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,319 Speaker 4: bit give us a little bit more insight into Marie 207 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,559 Speaker 4: Luis as well, and how her marriage might have been 208 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 4: to him, and also maybe some of the way she 209 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 4: thinks and some of her perspectives. So I think his 210 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 4: biography is worthwhile looking into in that regard on his own, 211 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,960 Speaker 4: but also if you were more interested in Marie Luis. 212 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 4: But I just didn't want to belabor it too much 213 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 4: today because this is about Marie Louise. So right after 214 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 4: anried died by suicide, her youngest son was assassinated, and 215 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:44,800 Speaker 4: after the death of her husband and her son, she 216 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 4: and her daughters went into exile. So now her two 217 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 4: sons are deceased and her two daughters are still alive, 218 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 4: so they all went into exile. And at first she 219 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 4: was sheltered in Porta Prince in Haiti, but she soon 220 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 4: got protected passage to be able to go to London 221 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 4: in exile, and she went to England in September of 222 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:14,959 Speaker 4: eighteen twenty one. So another major contextual point here is 223 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 4: about the Industrial Revolution, So another revolution happening, a very 224 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 4: different kind. But I know that y'all have talked about 225 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 4: it this era on Sminty before, and it was very 226 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 4: polluted there in London. There was a lot of change 227 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 4: that was happening. But when they got there, they stayed 228 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 4: at Osborne's Hotel, and then abolitionist Thomas Clarkson invited them 229 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,400 Speaker 4: to stay at his home, which was Playford Hall and Stuffolk, 230 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 4: and he expected them to stay about a month, but 231 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 4: they ended up staying for months, which is something he 232 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 4: commented on in a letter he wrote to someone. 233 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 3: He was like, yeah, I didn't know, you. 234 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 4: Know, I wasn't planning on them staying long, but they did, 235 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 4: which is honestly relatable because you know, sometimes you invite 236 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:09,400 Speaker 4: people over out of the kindness of your heart to stay. 237 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 4: You're like, I'm so hospitable, and then you get sick 238 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 4: and tired of them being. 239 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 3: In your space, like going home now, like your. 240 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 4: Home is my home, you know, but also what this 241 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:29,160 Speaker 4: is also my home? So yeah, but he does talk 242 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 4: about how they ended up growing on him. He wrote 243 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,239 Speaker 4: in a letter to another abolitionist that there quote amiable 244 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 4: dispositions and gentle and correct manners occasion them daily to 245 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,960 Speaker 4: grow in our love and esteem end quote. So I 246 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 4: feel like, you know, from my contemporary perspective, I acknowledge 247 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 4: that is coming from twenty twenty four, but I feel 248 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:57,359 Speaker 4: like it was a compliment. 249 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 3: And also. 250 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 4: There is a twinge of respectability in this where he's like, well, 251 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 4: because you know, they are not hooting and hollering, and 252 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 4: they're not all over the place and they're very well contained. 253 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 4: Is kind of what it was saying to me in 254 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 4: a way that you know, we can handle it, you know, 255 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 4: which I think I might just be particularly sensitive to 256 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 4: it knowing that they were black, because the idea of 257 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 4: like a white person placing that level of like I 258 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,560 Speaker 4: accept you because you're a respectable it just like rubs 259 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 4: me a certain way. But I also think that like 260 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 4: they moved to England and they were royalty from Haiti, 261 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 4: and they were black, and this this was she and 262 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 4: her family. They were not everyday people. So yeah, there's 263 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 4: a lot of that wrapped up in there. But anyway, 264 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 4: Clarkson also said about the Christophs quote, if they themselves 265 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 4: feel something of shyness respecting abolitionists, it arises from their 266 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 4: fear of being confounded with Africans. I can pity their weakness. 267 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 4: I have observed that very few persons can bear to 268 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 4: be reminded of any circumstances in their history which may 269 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 4: be thought degrading. So it is clear that they are 270 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 4: coming to this new place. People recognize where they came 271 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 4: from and their history. And there's also a distinction of 272 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 4: them from other Africans or black people, which is like 273 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 4: they're of a different class there, of nobility, and they're 274 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 4: from this far away place. But it was during this 275 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 4: time that Marie Luis and her family were at Clarkson's 276 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 4: home and in England that she kind of got her 277 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 4: ducks in a row. She sold some jewelry, she got 278 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 4: money that her husband left behind, and she had a 279 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 4: good amount of cash to live comfortably on. So I 280 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 4: don't think it's known exactly how much money she had, 281 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 4: but there was no record of her having struggled monetarily 282 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,959 Speaker 4: economically throughout the rest of her life. So it seems 283 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 4: that with the money that she did have and the 284 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 4: resources that she did have and the connections that she had, 285 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 4: she was able to live pretty comfortably for her entire 286 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:22,280 Speaker 4: life after her husband died. And it is also notable 287 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 4: that the anti slavery movement and abolitionism was very heavy, 288 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 4: like it was a big thing in Britain at the time, 289 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 4: but Marie Luis doesn't seem to have been too involved 290 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,480 Speaker 4: in that movement, or at least there's no record of 291 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 4: her going to anti slavery meetings while she was there, 292 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 4: even though her history is so wrapped up in the 293 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 4: Haitian Revolution. And I think there's speculation around why that 294 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 4: was the case. You know, what it looked like for 295 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 4: her to be involved in her safety and her already 296 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 4: being a strange person in a strange land. I know, 297 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 4: there are so many considerations that a black person would 298 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:07,080 Speaker 4: have had to have in thriving and surviving the way 299 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 4: in her situation and exile in Europe at the time, 300 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 4: So I could only imagine the permutations in her mind 301 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 4: around the issue. But there's only speculation about why that 302 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 4: was the case. But in April of eighteen twenty two, 303 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 4: the family left played for a hall and they went 304 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 4: to black Heath, which is an area in southeast London, 305 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,160 Speaker 4: and they weren't there long. Soon they moved to West 306 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 4: Hill in Hastings. One of Marie Luis's daughters wrote that 307 00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 4: the climate was milder in Hastings and that it was 308 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 4: helping Marie Luis's rheumatism. 309 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,919 Speaker 3: So I. 310 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 4: Them being in different places in England seemed to have 311 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 4: been something that might have been ordered from them for 312 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 4: a doctor because of different conditions that they had. But also, 313 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 4: you know, the Industrial Revolution was happening at a time, 314 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 4: so certain places when they were closer to the coast 315 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 4: or when they were in cities, could have different effects 316 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 4: on their health, and that seemed to be a consideration 317 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 4: when they were moving and their presence was highlighted in 318 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 4: various newspapers. You know, these Haitians that had come to England. 319 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 4: It is Haitian royalty. But she did end up leaving 320 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,359 Speaker 4: England in September of eighteen twenty four, which is about 321 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,879 Speaker 4: three years after she got there, and after that she 322 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 4: never came back, but she did stay in Europe. So 323 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 4: she went to Salzburg Austria, she went to Rome, and 324 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 4: she went to Pisa. One of her daughters atun Naier 325 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 4: died from respiratory illness in eighteen thirty one, and her 326 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 4: other daughter, I teased, died from an injury that she 327 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:53,120 Speaker 4: got after falling in eighteen thirty nine. So she lost 328 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:57,440 Speaker 4: a lot of her family members, her husband, and all 329 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 4: of her children before she died. So I can only 330 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 4: imagine the level of grief that she had for losing 331 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 4: everybody around her and in unexpected and tragic ways. I because, 332 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 4: like I said, there are no personal reflections from her 333 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 4: on this, I don't really know too much about how 334 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 4: she responded on an emotional level, what her day to 335 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 4: day was like after her family members passed away. So 336 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 4: I would like to know more about that too, because 337 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 4: there are all these groundbreaking moments in her story, with 338 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 4: her husband and her becoming the first claim. She's seeing 339 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 4: independent Haiti, seeing that change that's so huge, and then 340 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 4: she moves to England that's a big deal, and there 341 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:54,160 Speaker 4: aren't many people like her around, and there's this new language. 342 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,200 Speaker 4: You know, all of these these major changes, and at 343 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 4: the same time she's having these personal tragedies have in 344 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 4: her life I would really love to know her thoughts 345 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 4: on that and how she handled it, but alas we 346 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 4: don't have those things. But she did write a letter 347 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 4: to the President of Haiti, Jean Pierre Boyer, asking if 348 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 4: she could return to her country. So I think I 349 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 4: can pull from that that there was a bit of 350 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 4: homesickness that she had. I mean, she wanted to go 351 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 4: back home. She did say that she really liked England 352 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 4: and she would have stayed there. I think if it 353 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 4: were not for I believe she said, if it weren't 354 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 4: for the climate conditions and like the pollution conditions, that 355 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,639 Speaker 4: the effects that it had on health. But she wanted 356 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 4: to go back to her her home country, Haiti, although 357 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 4: she never ended up doing so. Her sister Luisa coy 358 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 4: Da Ville Pierrot. She was the wife of General and 359 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,719 Speaker 4: later President Jean Louis Pirout of the Republic of Haiti, 360 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 4: who also if people would like to he has his 361 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 4: own history as well. That's interesting that people could research. 362 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 4: But Louisa was going to go back to Haiti with 363 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 4: Marie Louise, but that never happened. So Marie Luise died 364 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 4: in March of eighteen fifty one in Pisa, that's where 365 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 4: she's buried. And in twenty nineteen, doctor Nicole Wilson recovered 366 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 4: a transcription of Marie Lewis's will at the UK National Archives. 367 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 4: So doctor Nicole Wilson has done quite a bit of 368 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 4: research on Marie Louis's history. Doctor Nicole Wilson was a 369 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 4: research fellow at the Institute for Black Atlantic Research at 370 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 4: the University of Lancashire. She was also principal investigator at 371 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 4: fam Rebel, which is a research project about women in 372 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 4: the Haitian Revolution and their narratives of resistance. And Marie 373 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 4: Luis's will is a five page document. If you go 374 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 4: to doctor Wilson's website, if you search fam Rebel, then 375 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 4: you can find the will and read it. And in 376 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 4: twenty twenty two, doctor Wilson was also involved in having 377 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 4: a plaque put up that honored Marie Luise. It was 378 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 4: put up at her former home at forty nine Weymouth 379 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 4: Street in London, which is the last place that she 380 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,360 Speaker 4: lived in England, and that same year. Later on there 381 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,400 Speaker 4: was another plaque that was put up honoring her in Hastings, 382 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 4: another place she lived while she was in England, and 383 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 4: in an article that doctor Wilson wrote for History Today. 384 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 4: She says about Marie Luise that quote, her story is 385 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 4: one of relative privilege, rendering her revolutionary trajectory more complicated 386 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 4: and to some less radical. And I just wanted to 387 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 4: talk about that quote because yes, like, there are were 388 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 4: a lot of people with far from resources and privileges 389 00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:06,919 Speaker 4: them Marie Luis had in Haiti that were not able 390 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 4: to move overseas, who were working on the plantations, who 391 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 4: died in difficult ways, who had a lot more trouble 392 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 4: taking care of their families, who lived in a lot 393 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 4: less comfortable positions. So I think there is context around 394 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:31,200 Speaker 4: that too that is worthy of talking about. But Marie 395 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 4: Lewis's story is still so wrapped up in the Haitian 396 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,879 Speaker 4: revolution and Haiti's independence, So a lot of things to 397 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 4: think about, I think with Marie Luis's story, Yeah, and 398 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 4: that's her life. 399 00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: I love these female first that you always do such 400 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 1: a good job of presenting like the complexities of a person, 401 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: even if we don't have all the information. 402 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 2: But it is a story of tragedy. 403 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: And upheaval and revolution and having these privileges and all 404 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:19,719 Speaker 1: of that in one person. And it's really fascinating, and 405 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:21,800 Speaker 1: I do wish there's so many rabbit holes that I 406 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: do wish we knew more. There's so much I want 407 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: to research about after this. But it's also an example 408 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: I found in this a great example of people still 409 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: doing that work and still researching because a lot of 410 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: the stuff around her, like the plaques that was pretty recent, 411 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:43,600 Speaker 1: that was like a lot of them were saying this 412 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,360 Speaker 1: is like a pandemic project for that ad or something 413 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: like that. So I find that that always inspires me, 414 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,399 Speaker 1: and I'm glad people are doing that work so we 415 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: can hear these stories and remember these stories, as complicated 416 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: as they may be. 417 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think one thing that it was difficult 418 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 4: for me in reading her story and not having a 419 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 4: lot of her personal thoughts about it, having so many 420 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 4: other people's words in it that was difficult for me 421 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 4: is that when you look at it from the outside, 422 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 4: and because we don't have a lot of her responses, 423 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 4: it kind of looks like a pat existence, like in 424 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 4: a way like, yes, we understand the deaths, but I 425 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 4: think it's a little bit it's kind of hard to 426 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,920 Speaker 4: connect to those deaths and really understand the weight of them. 427 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 4: It's like Okay, people died around her, but like it 428 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 4: was a Haitian revolution, it was eighteen hundreds, like we 429 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,160 Speaker 4: like we know people die without some of those specific 430 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 4: details on how she felt about it, and only seeing 431 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 4: like she was a royal, they built a palace, Okay, 432 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,000 Speaker 4: she lived in Like she went to England, she got 433 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 4: safe passage there. She didn't die of tubercula, Like I mean, 434 00:26:59,080 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 4: what's she doing? 435 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 3: Okay, you know, so it kind of looks like that. 436 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 4: It can kind of look like that without me knowing 437 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 4: the specific details. I'm like, I really want to know 438 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:12,639 Speaker 4: more because that it's so easy. I think when we 439 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 4: look at stories from the past that we don't know 440 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 4: a lot about to fall into that, And I just 441 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 4: that's why I want to know so much more about 442 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 4: how she felt, because I don't want to just have 443 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 4: to read between the lines to know how she felt, 444 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,719 Speaker 4: because like her story is a black story, which no 445 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 4: matter what, no matter where at this time. 446 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:35,400 Speaker 3: Would have been a difficult one. 447 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,160 Speaker 4: But we don't even know when she was in England, 448 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 4: what kind of stare she got, what kind of what 449 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 4: did people say to her? What did people do to 450 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,360 Speaker 4: her when she was in England. Despite the fact that 451 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 4: she was royalty in this far off land than a 452 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,359 Speaker 4: lot of people there in England had never been to, 453 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 4: had never seen someone of her of her stature and 454 00:27:55,760 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 4: her color, all of those kinds of things that I 455 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,240 Speaker 4: really would like to know about some more about those 456 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,400 Speaker 4: gaps in her story. So yeah, shout out to all 457 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 4: of the researchers like doctor Wilson and all the other 458 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:14,239 Speaker 4: people who are looking more to her story, because her 459 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 4: story is her own. But it's also like we mentioned 460 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 4: some of these men that we talked about in today's 461 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 4: episode who were involved in the Haitian Revolution, but also 462 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 4: a lot of the other women in the Haitian Revolution 463 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 4: and women in anti colonial resistance around the world, in 464 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 4: British holdings and like just in general, like that we 465 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,960 Speaker 4: can connect her story to and I think that is 466 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 4: a powerful part of her story as well, despite the 467 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 4: fact that we don't know a lot about it. 468 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: Yes, and we always appreciate you Eves for doing this 469 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: research and giving us this context and bringing these important 470 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 1: stories to us. So thank you. We're glad to have 471 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: you back. Hope you to be here as always. 472 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 2: Yes, where can the good listeners find you? 473 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 4: Y'all can find me at you can just go to 474 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 4: Evesjeffcoat dot com and you can get to all of 475 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 4: the places. But if you want to go straight to Instagram, 476 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 4: you can go to not Apologizing. That is pretty much 477 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 4: the only social media platform that I really engage with 478 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 4: in any way. You can also find me on many 479 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 4: other episodes of Female First right here on Sminty talking 480 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 4: about women in history. And you can find me on 481 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 4: One Theme, which is a podcast about black storytelling and 482 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 4: all of its forms. 483 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 1: Yes, and go check it out listeners, if you haven't already, 484 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: Thanks again Eves for being here listeners. If you would 485 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: like to contact us, you can our email Stuff Media 486 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us 487 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: on Twitter at mostaf podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok 488 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: at stuff I've Never told you. 489 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 2: We're on YouTube. 490 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: We have a tea public store, and we have a 491 00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:00,320 Speaker 1: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks 492 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,160 Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Christina, executive producer Maya, 493 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: and our contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you 494 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: for listening. Steffan never told you the protection of iHeart Radio. 495 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:09,959 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can check 496 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: out the heart radio, app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 497 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.