1
00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:08,520
Speaker 1: Arrested, extradited, charged. For four decades, these three words were

2
00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,280
Speaker 1: almost impossible to imagine in terms of Susanne Armstrong and

3
00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,840
Speaker 1: Susan Bartlett's murders. The fact that a sixty five year

4
00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,320
Speaker 1: old man would be arrested in Rome late in twenty

5
00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,319
Speaker 1: twenty four and extradited to Melbourne to be charged with

6
00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,079
Speaker 1: their double homicide was surely the stuff of a TV

7
00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,319
Speaker 1: crime show or an over the top murder mystery. But

8
00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,560
Speaker 1: a man is now accused of the killings, allegedly a

9
00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,520
Speaker 1: murder and rapist at just seventeen years of age. Fact

10
00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:37,760
Speaker 1: again seems stranger than fiction.

11
00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,879
Speaker 2: If someone that offered odds against that happening, you know,

12
00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,400
Speaker 2: any time up until it happened, I would have said

13
00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:50,159
Speaker 2: one hundred thousand to one, just astonishing against it.

14
00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:58,800
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Easy Street Murders Episode seven. Arrested, Extradited, Charged.

15
00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,720
Speaker 1: My name's Helen Thomas, and let's update this saga that

16
00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:21,760
Speaker 1: started forty eight years ago. News of the stunning development

17
00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,680
Speaker 1: in the cold case became public just after nine am

18
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:29,240
Speaker 1: on September twenty one, twenty twenty four. Perry Crumblus, a

19
00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:32,880
Speaker 1: dual Greek Australian citizen had been arrested at Rome Airport,

20
00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,319
Speaker 1: reportedly after Terpol was contacted by Australian authorities and a

21
00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:41,800
Speaker 1: long term watch by Melbourne detectives. Greek law had prevented

22
00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,640
Speaker 1: extradition from Athens, where he'd been living, as the alleged

23
00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:49,000
Speaker 1: defenses had occurred more than twenty years ago. Veteran crime

24
00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,760
Speaker 1: reporter John Silvester was first to report the arrest in

25
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,960
Speaker 1: The Age newspaper that Saturday morning. Rival mass heads and

26
00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,280
Speaker 1: broadcast networks quickly followed up on the breakthrough and it

27
00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:04,360
Speaker 1: became signific news around Australia and the world. Andrew Rule,

28
00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,200
Speaker 1: senior crime reporter with The Herald's son, has been covering

29
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:08,440
Speaker 1: the case for decades.

30
00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,240
Speaker 2: I was not working in Melbourne in nineteen seventy seven

31
00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:16,360
Speaker 2: when it happened, but I took a huge interest in

32
00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:21,000
Speaker 2: it even then because one of those victims, that is

33
00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:23,880
Speaker 2: Susan Armstrong, had a connection with my family.

34
00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,440
Speaker 3: My mother knew her parents, and it.

35
00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,919
Speaker 2: Didn't always sort of struck us that it was a

36
00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,360
Speaker 2: little bit close to home. So I took an interest,

37
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,480
Speaker 2: and as a police reporter in the nineteen eighties, naturally

38
00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,040
Speaker 2: I came to write about easy Street fairly regularly. So

39
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,639
Speaker 2: I've had a big interest in it for a long time.

40
00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,640
Speaker 4: And did you ever think it would come to this?

41
00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,280
Speaker 1: Did you ever think that after this length of time

42
00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:49,880
Speaker 1: this matter could even be brought to court as it

43
00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:50,360
Speaker 1: is now.

44
00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,720
Speaker 2: I'm moderately stunned that it has, that someone's been arrested,

45
00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,000
Speaker 2: that it will apparently go to court. It's an amazing

46
00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:01,600
Speaker 2: term of events, because these things accasionally happened, but it's.

47
00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:02,440
Speaker 3: Not the way that better, is it?

48
00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:04,959
Speaker 2: Usually these old cold cases remain that way.

49
00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,040
Speaker 4: So what did he do when he read that breaking

50
00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,000
Speaker 4: news story? In the age, I.

51
00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,639
Speaker 2: Might have called to the office at the Herald Son

52
00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:15,680
Speaker 2: and I sat down and wrote a place basically off

53
00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,240
Speaker 2: the top of my head, because I know pretty well

54
00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,240
Speaker 2: facts as the matter, backgrounding it for people so that

55
00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,919
Speaker 2: they can recall exactly what happened when and who's heaven

56
00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,640
Speaker 2: the zoo, Because of course it's so long ago that

57
00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,360
Speaker 2: I'd say anyone younger than sort of fifty five really

58
00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,040
Speaker 2: has no first hand memory of it happening. It's ancient

59
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:38,360
Speaker 2: history for two generations. For the generation that's now leaving

60
00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:42,040
Speaker 2: school and going to university, and probably their parents, they

61
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,960
Speaker 2: don't really know anything about it except what they've read

62
00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,320
Speaker 2: and heard second hand over time.

63
00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,920
Speaker 1: Within days of his arrest at Rome's Leonardo da Vinci

64
00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,760
Speaker 1: Airport and subsequent detention in the city's Regiina Charley jail,

65
00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:59,800
Speaker 1: Perry Carumbolus agreed to be extradited to Australia. At the time,

66
00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,200
Speaker 1: public defender Serena Tucci told the media that Corumbalus said

67
00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:07,440
Speaker 1: he wanted to return to quote explain everything unquote, describing

68
00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:12,480
Speaker 1: him as distressed, surprised, and worried about his arrest. According

69
00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,440
Speaker 1: to the Age, the lawyer said Corumblus told authorities he'd

70
00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,000
Speaker 1: cooperate with the extradition, saying he had exercised his right

71
00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,679
Speaker 1: to remain silent other than to say he was innocent

72
00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,960
Speaker 1: and give his consent for extradition. It's been alleged that

73
00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,440
Speaker 1: DNA evidence may be put before the jury, a scientific

74
00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:32,120
Speaker 1: tool police didn't have when the two suits were killed

75
00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:33,960
Speaker 1: back in nineteen seventy seven.

76
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,360
Speaker 2: We don't want to speculate. Let's speak hypothetically here. Let's

77
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:40,839
Speaker 2: not talk about this case, Let's talk about a similar case.

78
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:44,240
Speaker 2: I think DNA has been shown to be fallible several

79
00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,160
Speaker 2: times in this state alone. People have been locked up

80
00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:52,080
Speaker 2: on bungled DNA evidence before for serious crimes, and therefore

81
00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,360
Speaker 2: I think that the bench the judiciary will be reluctant

82
00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:01,520
Speaker 2: to see someone convicted on DNA alone, and that that woman,

83
00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,400
Speaker 2: the prosecution and the police will be working very hard too.

84
00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,800
Speaker 2: I would imagine look for other corroborating evidence if there

85
00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:09,280
Speaker 2: is any.

86
00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:11,160
Speaker 3: That's a big if, Helen.

87
00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:14,880
Speaker 1: What we do know is that Perry Crumblis was a

88
00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,360
Speaker 1: student at the same school in Collingwood where Susan Bartler taught,

89
00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,080
Speaker 1: and he and his family didn't live far from the

90
00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,360
Speaker 1: Little Worker's cottage that she shared with Susanne Armstrong at

91
00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,880
Speaker 1: one four seven Easy Street. The teenager was not listed

92
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:33,720
Speaker 1: on the homicide squad's original list of eight persons of interest. Nevertheless,

93
00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,000
Speaker 1: his name remained in the file, and when a million

94
00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,080
Speaker 1: dollar reward was offered for information in twenty seventeen and

95
00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,599
Speaker 1: a fresh inquiry launched, he came under scrutiny, along with

96
00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,720
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty others in that old dossier. Three

97
00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,640
Speaker 1: years later, a charge sheet and warrant to arrest was

98
00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,479
Speaker 1: signed by Detective Paul Rowe on May nineteen, twenty twenty,

99
00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,360
Speaker 1: alleging Pery Courumblis had murdered Susan and Suzanne Quote between

100
00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,880
Speaker 1: the tenth day of January and the thirteenth day of

101
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:06,280
Speaker 1: January nineteen seventy seven. It also alleged that he had

102
00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,640
Speaker 1: carnal knowledge with Susanne Armstrong without her consent during that

103
00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:13,799
Speaker 1: same period, and stated the accused resides overseas, is avoiding

104
00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:18,960
Speaker 1: apprehension and his extradition will be sought. At three twenty

105
00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,680
Speaker 1: three pm on December fourth, twenty twenty four, Corumbalus entered

106
00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:26,240
Speaker 1: Court Room Number one in Melbourne's Magistrates Court, charged with

107
00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:30,160
Speaker 1: the murders of the two young women. Detective Roe had

108
00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,080
Speaker 1: traveled back with him to Australia on his extradition flight

109
00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,520
Speaker 1: and was in court that afternoon too, alongside members of

110
00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:41,080
Speaker 1: the Armstrong and Bartlett families. Perry Courumblis is due to

111
00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,359
Speaker 1: appear again at the end of February for what's called

112
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:48,280
Speaker 1: a committal mention. Prominent criminal lawyer Tony Isaacs has an

113
00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:51,400
Speaker 1: expert perspective of the legal process now unfolding.

114
00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,839
Speaker 5: Helen, I understand that mister Corumbolus is facing a committal

115
00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:01,400
Speaker 5: mention hearing at the Magistrate's Court in late February. He

116
00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,240
Speaker 5: was charged and brought before the court in December. Once

117
00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:09,640
Speaker 5: the prosecution charge a person, they are entitled to the

118
00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:14,280
Speaker 5: presumption of innocence and the burden of proof rests with

119
00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,720
Speaker 5: the prosecution. And these are phrases that people hear about.

120
00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,800
Speaker 5: They see these sorts of things on the TV, and

121
00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:26,000
Speaker 5: they are real. They are doctrines in our criminal justice process.

122
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,600
Speaker 5: So the prosecution must prove beyond reasonable doubt that mister

123
00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,720
Speaker 5: Coronblis is guilty of the murders. Mister Coronbalis does not

124
00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,800
Speaker 5: have to prove anything. What the defense does is raises

125
00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,760
Speaker 5: a reasonable doubt and doesn't have to do anything more.

126
00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:46,000
Speaker 5: The prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he's guilty.

127
00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,560
Speaker 3: I should say I know that for mister Coronblis.

128
00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,160
Speaker 5: I know nothing about the case, and I'm only talking

129
00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,720
Speaker 5: in general terms about process.

130
00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,480
Speaker 1: The next step in this process involves a brief of

131
00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,480
Speaker 1: evidence being given to the defense team.

132
00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:04,880
Speaker 5: The brief of evidence includes all of the evidence on

133
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:10,120
Speaker 5: which the prosecution seeks to rely to prove its case

134
00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:14,840
Speaker 5: beyond a reasonable doubt, and mister Cromlis is entitled to

135
00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,680
Speaker 5: the brief of evidence because of disclosure rules. An accused

136
00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,440
Speaker 5: person is entitled to know the case against them, and

137
00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:30,360
Speaker 5: that would include statements by civilians, statements made by police,

138
00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:36,160
Speaker 5: statements made by experts, a transcript of any record of interview,

139
00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,080
Speaker 5: and copies of any exhibits that are being relied on

140
00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,840
Speaker 5: by the prosecution. So all of that is given to

141
00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:49,320
Speaker 5: the defense lawyers who would then be asking, typically for

142
00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:56,679
Speaker 5: disclosure of further material, which is really everything behind the

143
00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:00,719
Speaker 5: statements that are given. It would include the whole investigative

144
00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:06,160
Speaker 5: file and all the data held by Victoria Police. For example,

145
00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:10,400
Speaker 5: a police officer will have made a statement. The defense

146
00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:14,000
Speaker 5: would most likely then say, well, we want all of

147
00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,719
Speaker 5: the notes and diary entries and running sheets filled in

148
00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:24,200
Speaker 5: by that police officer during the investigation, which is what

149
00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,800
Speaker 5: leads up to the person making the statement. So the

150
00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:29,640
Speaker 5: defense would want all the background to that being, all

151
00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:33,840
Speaker 5: of the notes, probably want all of the correspondence between

152
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:38,400
Speaker 5: police officers and witnesses and police officers between each other.

153
00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,600
Speaker 5: The expert reports would be statements, but there would be

154
00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:46,360
Speaker 5: notes and files behind them that again the defense would

155
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:47,160
Speaker 5: call for.

156
00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,679
Speaker 4: And they're entitled to see.

157
00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,199
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, So I understand, for example, in this case

158
00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:58,400
Speaker 5: that the scientist who has analyzed the DNA samples and

159
00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:03,760
Speaker 5: provided the report. There expert report, their whole file will

160
00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:08,360
Speaker 5: be required, all of their notes and their complete analysis,

161
00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,840
Speaker 5: which could run for hundreds of pages.

162
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,960
Speaker 3: To do a complete DNA analysis.

163
00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:17,480
Speaker 5: Going back, because this was nineteen seventy seven, probably it

164
00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,960
Speaker 5: would either be in the form of blood of a

165
00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:25,520
Speaker 5: suspect or seminole fluid. In this instance, I understand there

166
00:10:25,559 --> 00:10:27,960
Speaker 5: is an allegation of a rape. Because it was nineteen

167
00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,720
Speaker 5: seventy seven, there were not sophisticated methods of taking DNA

168
00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:36,960
Speaker 5: because it was simply not used in criminal prosecutions. So

169
00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,120
Speaker 5: how the DNA was taken, how it was stored, how

170
00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:46,040
Speaker 5: it's been examined, the chain of process of handling the samples,

171
00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,720
Speaker 5: all of those things would be asked for by the

172
00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:54,360
Speaker 5: defense and examined by the defense. So after the brief

173
00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,040
Speaker 5: is served in mid January, the defense would seek a

174
00:10:58,080 --> 00:11:01,760
Speaker 5: lot of material from the prosecute. In this instance, the

175
00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,000
Speaker 5: homicide squad would know what the defense wants and they've

176
00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,160
Speaker 5: probably provided it. They're probably giving it with the brief.

177
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,640
Speaker 1: Another formal move in this case involves a document known

178
00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,000
Speaker 1: as a Form thirty.

179
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:18,320
Speaker 5: Two before the committal mentioned in late February, a document

180
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,040
Speaker 5: known as a Form thirty two.

181
00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,559
Speaker 3: Is filed by the parties.

182
00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:29,600
Speaker 5: It's created by the defense seeking to call witnesses at

183
00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,680
Speaker 5: a later committal hearing. You don't have an automatic right

184
00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:36,880
Speaker 5: to call all of the witnesses. The defense has to

185
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,640
Speaker 5: establish for each witness that it wants to cross examine

186
00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:46,720
Speaker 5: an issue or issues from that witness's statement that are

187
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,600
Speaker 5: issues in the case identification. For example, so a police

188
00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,319
Speaker 5: officer might have come to the crime scene and done

189
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:58,720
Speaker 5: certain things, so there might be issues of examination of

190
00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,240
Speaker 5: the crime scene. And in the Form thirty two, if

191
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,600
Speaker 5: you want to cross examine the police officer, you have

192
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:07,400
Speaker 5: to identify the issues you want to ask about the

193
00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:12,640
Speaker 5: relevance of that person's evidence to the issues, and why

194
00:12:12,679 --> 00:12:14,160
Speaker 5: it's justified to ask.

195
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:15,160
Speaker 3: That person questions.

196
00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,320
Speaker 5: At a committal, a magistrate is not going to simply

197
00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,960
Speaker 5: allow the defense to call all of the prosecution witnesses.

198
00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,199
Speaker 5: There would be in this case dozens and dozens of witnesses,

199
00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,200
Speaker 5: so you have to justify why you want to call them.

200
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,760
Speaker 5: So the prosecution you file the form of the prosecution,

201
00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:36,960
Speaker 5: who then respond by saying whether they object to any

202
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:40,239
Speaker 5: of these witnesses being cross examined, and then a magistrate

203
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,040
Speaker 5: determines which witnesses can be cross examined, and at that

204
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,960
Speaker 5: point it becomes administrative again in determining how long a

205
00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,800
Speaker 5: committal hearing would take and then booking it in according

206
00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:55,040
Speaker 5: to availability of court time and availability of witnesses, etc.

207
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:55,560
Speaker 3: Etc.

208
00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,640
Speaker 1: In other words, after waiting nearly fifty years for justice

209
00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,480
Speaker 1: for Susan Bartlett and Susanne Armstrong, the matter won't be rushed.

210
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:11,480
Speaker 1: That's reassuring. But what timeframe are we looking at? How

211
00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:15,920
Speaker 1: long will this case take? Tony Isaacs, who's been practicing

212
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,079
Speaker 1: criminal law in Melbourne for more than forty years, maintains

213
00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:23,679
Speaker 1: that doctrines in our criminal justice process are sacrisanct, and

214
00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:25,319
Speaker 1: that includes criminal mentions.

215
00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:27,680
Speaker 3: They're generally short.

216
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,880
Speaker 5: If the defense are requiring ten witnesses, there might be

217
00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,680
Speaker 5: objections to two of them and that would be discussed

218
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:40,000
Speaker 5: in court before the magistrate. Committal mentions can sometimes be adjourned.

219
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,680
Speaker 5: For example, all of the disclosure material may not have

220
00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,040
Speaker 5: been served, but given that this is a very old matter,

221
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:51,520
Speaker 5: I would think that the prosecution would have this material

222
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:52,320
Speaker 5: ready to go.

223
00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,080
Speaker 1: Isaac's expects this matter will follow the traditional route to

224
00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:58,040
Speaker 1: a committal hearing.

225
00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,080
Speaker 3: It looks as so that's the process for this case.

226
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,160
Speaker 5: But there is a process where persons charged with murder

227
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,200
Speaker 5: can opt to fast track their hearing into the Supreme

228
00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,679
Speaker 5: Court and skip the committal process, and they can cross

229
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,960
Speaker 5: examine some witnesses before a judge separate to the trial,

230
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,120
Speaker 5: so that you would have a mini committal if you like,

231
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:22,760
Speaker 5: or a committal in the.

232
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:25,280
Speaker 3: Supreme Court, and it can't be done until after the

233
00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,720
Speaker 3: service of the brief, So we have to wait and

234
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:28,400
Speaker 3: see on that one.

235
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,480
Speaker 1: Can I just ask you finally, if say this matter

236
00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:34,920
Speaker 1: does go to a committal hearing in the magistrate's court,

237
00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:36,560
Speaker 1: how long does that run?

238
00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,840
Speaker 5: Well, it could be that it would take six months

239
00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:43,080
Speaker 5: or more to book it in because you've got to

240
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,200
Speaker 5: wait for availability of court time. Let's say it was

241
00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:49,840
Speaker 5: booked for a five day hearing. The court's got to

242
00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,880
Speaker 5: find five days, and for it to find five days,

243
00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,520
Speaker 5: it might be six or eight months away. It's a

244
00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,240
Speaker 5: high profile case, it might get some priority, but I

245
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,760
Speaker 5: would think a committal would be much later this year

246
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,240
Speaker 5: if that's the way they go. An accused person does

247
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:09,480
Speaker 5: not have to run a committal hearing. They can come

248
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:11,840
Speaker 5: to the committal MENSI and say we're not going to

249
00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:14,200
Speaker 5: have a committal, We're just going to go straight to

250
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:15,520
Speaker 5: trial and the Supreme Court.

251
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,720
Speaker 4: And if that happened, could that happen this year?

252
00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,360
Speaker 5: That would be a matter for the registrars and the

253
00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:25,400
Speaker 5: people running the Supreme Court list It's possible, but probably not.

254
00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:27,440
Speaker 3: There would be a lot of trials in front of it.

255
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,320
Speaker 1: In other words, no matter what happens from this point

256
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,120
Speaker 1: going forward, say, from the committal mentioned at the end

257
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,960
Speaker 1: of February, this matter is not going to be over quickly,

258
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:38,840
Speaker 1: I guess, nor shouldn't they.

259
00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:40,840
Speaker 3: No, no, it won't be over quickly.

260
00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,840
Speaker 5: I mean typically we say to clients who come into

261
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,080
Speaker 5: our office, if they're charged with indictable offenses that are

262
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,160
Speaker 5: going to end up in a trial in the county

263
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:54,240
Speaker 5: or Supreme Court, from the time they charged, they're probably

264
00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,240
Speaker 5: eighteen months away from their trial date.

265
00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,880
Speaker 1: When Perry Crumblus walked into Court one in early December

266
00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:06,040
Speaker 1: last year, he moved slowly and looked tired, probably not

267
00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,640
Speaker 1: surprising given the long flight from Rome that had landed

268
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,640
Speaker 1: less than twenty four hours before, and having been formally

269
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:17,080
Speaker 1: interviewed by detectives earlier that day before being charged. Sitting

270
00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:21,240
Speaker 1: between two security officers and behind glass, he watched Magistrate

271
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,280
Speaker 1: Leon Fluxman intently, not looking at Susan's brother Martin or

272
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:30,040
Speaker 1: Suzanne's sister Gail, who were seated behind the prosecutor. Did

273
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,760
Speaker 1: he notice the young TV reporters taking notes on their

274
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:35,040
Speaker 1: phones at the back of the court, or the soft

275
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,800
Speaker 1: whisper of other journalist's laptop keys. Was he aware this

276
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,640
Speaker 1: deceptively low key proceeding held the keen focus of international

277
00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:47,200
Speaker 1: news outlets. When asked if he understood his remand conditions,

278
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:55,600
Speaker 1: Corumbalus nodded twice and answered quietly yes. The accused and

279
00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,160
Speaker 1: his defense lawyer Bill doug Will returned to the Melbourne

280
00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,880
Speaker 1: Magistrate's Court on Wednesday every twenty six