1 00:00:04,078 --> 00:00:07,358 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:13,678 --> 00:00:16,838 Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome back to another edition of the Book 3 00:00:16,878 --> 00:00:20,958 Speaker 1: of Joe Podcast with Me, Tom Berducci, and Joe. 4 00:00:20,678 --> 00:00:22,678 Speaker 2: Madden and Joe. 5 00:00:22,758 --> 00:00:25,198 Speaker 1: We are less than a month away from the Major 6 00:00:25,278 --> 00:00:28,118 Speaker 1: League Draft. July ninth is when it begins, so it's 7 00:00:28,158 --> 00:00:30,678 Speaker 1: a good time to talk about something I know is 8 00:00:30,718 --> 00:00:33,078 Speaker 1: near and dear to your heart, the business of scouting 9 00:00:33,318 --> 00:00:35,918 Speaker 1: identifying talent. And we've got one of the best in 10 00:00:35,918 --> 00:00:39,518 Speaker 1: the business with us to talk about that today, Josh Byrns, 11 00:00:39,598 --> 00:00:43,118 Speaker 1: Senior vice President of Baseball Operations for the LA Dodgers. 12 00:00:43,638 --> 00:00:45,238 Speaker 2: Josh, welcome and thanks. 13 00:00:45,278 --> 00:00:47,198 Speaker 1: I know this is a super busy time of year 14 00:00:47,238 --> 00:00:49,318 Speaker 1: for you, so thanks for popping on with us. 15 00:00:49,678 --> 00:00:50,638 Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me. 16 00:00:50,838 --> 00:00:53,278 Speaker 4: You're talking about that, I mean, I'm just really quickly. 17 00:00:53,278 --> 00:00:55,678 Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, I started out as a scott. I 18 00:00:55,718 --> 00:00:58,358 Speaker 4: know Tommy knows that, maybe Josh does, but that that 19 00:00:59,038 --> 00:01:01,038 Speaker 4: is the foundation for everything I've done in this game. 20 00:01:01,118 --> 00:01:05,398 Speaker 4: I believe the fact that Bobby Vontainne, actually Larry Hymes 21 00:01:05,398 --> 00:01:07,718 Speaker 4: permitted me to scout when I first ended up in 22 00:01:07,758 --> 00:01:10,118 Speaker 4: nineteen eighty one made all the difference in the world 23 00:01:10,118 --> 00:01:13,478 Speaker 4: for me. As a baseball person. Man, it made me 24 00:01:13,478 --> 00:01:17,478 Speaker 4: a better manager, better coach, better everything evaluator. I feel 25 00:01:17,478 --> 00:01:19,718 Speaker 4: like I can contribute because I actually learned how to 26 00:01:19,758 --> 00:01:22,198 Speaker 4: scout first. So I just wanted to throw that out there. 27 00:01:22,318 --> 00:01:25,318 Speaker 4: I really it's the lifeblood of an organization. People have 28 00:01:25,358 --> 00:01:28,358 Speaker 4: no idea. Nobody knows who these people are. These scouts 29 00:01:28,438 --> 00:01:35,438 Speaker 4: are lifers. They are the funniest, grizzliest, bestest friends you're 30 00:01:35,438 --> 00:01:37,918 Speaker 4: ever going to have. Funny, God, they make me laugh. 31 00:01:38,158 --> 00:01:40,478 Speaker 4: So anyway, I'm very fortunate that I started out as 32 00:01:40,478 --> 00:01:42,198 Speaker 4: a scout. Just wanted to say that first. 33 00:01:42,238 --> 00:01:46,638 Speaker 3: Josh, Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. As I mean, as people 34 00:01:46,758 --> 00:01:49,998 Speaker 3: ask about like getting started in the business and wherever 35 00:01:49,998 --> 00:01:52,038 Speaker 3: they are, especially if they're young and they're in college, 36 00:01:52,078 --> 00:01:54,078 Speaker 3: I'll say, hey, go to a college game, go to 37 00:01:54,198 --> 00:01:56,878 Speaker 3: Cape Co, go to a minor league game, write down 38 00:01:56,958 --> 00:02:01,518 Speaker 3: what you see. Learning how to evaluate and put your 39 00:02:01,558 --> 00:02:05,078 Speaker 3: thoughts down is a great foundation and for an individual 40 00:02:05,118 --> 00:02:06,398 Speaker 3: and certainly for the organization. 41 00:02:06,918 --> 00:02:10,558 Speaker 1: Well, Josh, let's start then with your origin story in 42 00:02:10,598 --> 00:02:13,558 Speaker 1: the game, because you did start in the Cleveland organization, 43 00:02:13,678 --> 00:02:16,998 Speaker 1: I believe, first as an intern and then working as 44 00:02:17,238 --> 00:02:21,438 Speaker 1: an advanced scout, and then eventually scouting director. So tell 45 00:02:21,478 --> 00:02:24,318 Speaker 1: me about your entre into Major League baseball. 46 00:02:24,638 --> 00:02:27,438 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a long time ago, and you know, 47 00:02:27,478 --> 00:02:32,078 Speaker 3: I interviewed in the old ballpark in Cleveland and they 48 00:02:32,118 --> 00:02:35,318 Speaker 3: offered me the internship. Then we moved into Jacob's Field 49 00:02:35,478 --> 00:02:39,918 Speaker 3: and so in ninety four I was interning. Obviously the 50 00:02:39,958 --> 00:02:42,798 Speaker 3: strike was going to hit later that summer. But it 51 00:02:42,838 --> 00:02:46,398 Speaker 3: was a great shop, small shop with John Hart, Dan O'Dowd, 52 00:02:46,398 --> 00:02:52,198 Speaker 3: Mark Shapiro and others, and you know, to kind of 53 00:02:52,198 --> 00:02:54,678 Speaker 3: the theme of this discussion. I remember this is sort 54 00:02:54,718 --> 00:02:57,878 Speaker 3: of early days of computers. But you know, I had 55 00:02:58,038 --> 00:03:00,158 Speaker 3: nothing to do. I had no money, and the ability 56 00:03:00,238 --> 00:03:02,998 Speaker 3: just to go on the file drawers and read scouting reports, 57 00:03:04,038 --> 00:03:07,598 Speaker 3: to me was one of the greatest things as I 58 00:03:07,638 --> 00:03:10,478 Speaker 3: was starting out kind of how people evaluated players and 59 00:03:10,758 --> 00:03:14,678 Speaker 3: how they broke them down. So it was a great time. 60 00:03:15,398 --> 00:03:17,838 Speaker 3: We kind of felt like, even with the new ballpark 61 00:03:17,838 --> 00:03:22,598 Speaker 3: and the talent, the franchise was about to turn and 62 00:03:22,678 --> 00:03:24,998 Speaker 3: I got sort of thrown into the advanced scouting. It's 63 00:03:25,038 --> 00:03:29,518 Speaker 3: actually the funny story. You know, the bat system, we 64 00:03:29,518 --> 00:03:33,638 Speaker 3: were the second to use it, which charts pitches, pitch type, 65 00:03:33,678 --> 00:03:37,238 Speaker 3: pitch location, you build a database. There was no centralized database, 66 00:03:37,318 --> 00:03:40,558 Speaker 3: but I was doing it to kind of support our 67 00:03:40,558 --> 00:03:44,358 Speaker 3: advanced scouting, you know, spray charts. Buddy Bill was our 68 00:03:44,358 --> 00:03:49,318 Speaker 3: bench coach, hot zone, cold zone type stuff. Phil Reagan 69 00:03:49,358 --> 00:03:54,758 Speaker 3: our pitching coach like that. So then later in the summer, 70 00:03:55,718 --> 00:04:00,158 Speaker 3: if you remember, the Orioles were in Seattle and the 71 00:04:00,318 --> 00:04:04,118 Speaker 3: series got canceled because a roof tile fell off the 72 00:04:04,198 --> 00:04:08,838 Speaker 3: Kingdome roof, and John Hard came to me and said, okay, 73 00:04:08,878 --> 00:04:11,358 Speaker 3: can you do the whole report A to Z just 74 00:04:11,398 --> 00:04:15,518 Speaker 3: go back a series on videotape with the Orioles. So 75 00:04:15,598 --> 00:04:18,518 Speaker 3: I was nervous. I did it. I you know, there's 76 00:04:18,558 --> 00:04:21,318 Speaker 3: no email, there's no you know. So I wrote the report, 77 00:04:21,398 --> 00:04:27,598 Speaker 3: hand delivered it to Baltimore with the staff sat there, 78 00:04:27,758 --> 00:04:30,398 Speaker 3: you know, on pins and needles, watching us play that series. 79 00:04:30,438 --> 00:04:34,118 Speaker 3: And then John and Dan said, okay, you're the advanced scout, 80 00:04:34,238 --> 00:04:36,678 Speaker 3: so we're gonna do it all video. So we were 81 00:04:36,678 --> 00:04:39,678 Speaker 3: the first team to do it that way. And then 82 00:04:39,678 --> 00:04:42,598 Speaker 3: you add in the people. I mean, Mark Wiley by 83 00:04:42,678 --> 00:04:46,998 Speaker 3: ninety five was our pitching coach. He was great. And 84 00:04:47,038 --> 00:04:50,038 Speaker 3: then you know, we had veteran pictures or rehearsals or 85 00:04:50,038 --> 00:04:53,678 Speaker 3: Dennis Martinez, Charles Naggi, who really could execute. We had 86 00:04:53,758 --> 00:04:59,038 Speaker 3: Sandy Alomar and Tony Paine's catchers, so if and obviously 87 00:04:59,078 --> 00:05:01,478 Speaker 3: in the advanced scouting man and now I think what 88 00:05:01,518 --> 00:05:06,558 Speaker 3: you control is the pitches you throw. And we even 89 00:05:06,598 --> 00:05:08,918 Speaker 3: though we were known for our offense, we had the 90 00:05:08,998 --> 00:05:11,278 Speaker 3: league in era the two years I did a full 91 00:05:11,318 --> 00:05:14,598 Speaker 3: time ninety five and ninety six. And but the people 92 00:05:15,318 --> 00:05:17,758 Speaker 3: Mark Wiley in particular, which is great as I as 93 00:05:17,758 --> 00:05:19,558 Speaker 3: I was handing off the information. 94 00:05:20,078 --> 00:05:21,678 Speaker 4: I remember all that. I mean, you did have a 95 00:05:21,718 --> 00:05:25,278 Speaker 4: really good pitching staff. They were outstanding. Yeah, not known 96 00:05:25,278 --> 00:05:27,038 Speaker 4: for the offense, great team on the field, but the 97 00:05:27,078 --> 00:05:30,318 Speaker 4: pitching was that good. And we you're talking about right there, 98 00:05:30,438 --> 00:05:35,078 Speaker 4: the kind of the the how it morphed from traditional 99 00:05:35,158 --> 00:05:38,198 Speaker 4: just a couple of dudes in the stands to the 100 00:05:37,998 --> 00:05:42,798 Speaker 4: to the more video driven tech way of accumulating advanced information, 101 00:05:42,838 --> 00:05:45,598 Speaker 4: which I'm I've been a advocate of from the beginning. 102 00:05:45,598 --> 00:05:47,198 Speaker 4: We had Mattie ki Oh back in the day, and 103 00:05:47,238 --> 00:05:50,518 Speaker 4: Maddie was almost like a little computer himself. But I 104 00:05:50,518 --> 00:05:52,838 Speaker 4: always believe that, you know, you needed to do both. 105 00:05:52,918 --> 00:05:57,758 Speaker 4: I still believe that. I still the way information has 106 00:05:57,758 --> 00:06:00,998 Speaker 4: gathered today. Yeah, I want all this this large sample 107 00:06:01,078 --> 00:06:02,918 Speaker 4: stuff that we can get. It's got every game, every 108 00:06:02,998 --> 00:06:05,478 Speaker 4: day and just when you play against them. But I 109 00:06:05,518 --> 00:06:07,878 Speaker 4: also like somebody in the stands. I mean, to me, 110 00:06:07,958 --> 00:06:09,438 Speaker 4: one of the most critical things you could do is 111 00:06:09,478 --> 00:06:12,358 Speaker 4: steal signs. And I know that's I'm not talking about 112 00:06:12,398 --> 00:06:15,638 Speaker 4: through technology. I mean through good old Scotti methods. If 113 00:06:15,918 --> 00:06:18,078 Speaker 4: a guy in the stands could pick up on something 114 00:06:18,438 --> 00:06:21,158 Speaker 4: that could be as relevant or pertinent as anything else 115 00:06:21,198 --> 00:06:23,758 Speaker 4: you could acquire during that time that you're studying a 116 00:06:23,838 --> 00:06:26,158 Speaker 4: video tape, because there's one or two moments in a 117 00:06:26,518 --> 00:06:29,798 Speaker 4: series can absolutely change things if you've got a guy 118 00:06:29,838 --> 00:06:32,118 Speaker 4: that's statistute in the stands. So I still like the 119 00:06:32,158 --> 00:06:34,798 Speaker 4: idea of both. Is that happening or is it just 120 00:06:34,798 --> 00:06:38,238 Speaker 4: pretty much primarily tech. Is it video or are we 121 00:06:38,438 --> 00:06:41,878 Speaker 4: still utilizing that with some tried and true, good old 122 00:06:41,918 --> 00:06:43,158 Speaker 4: baseball dudes in the stands. 123 00:06:43,838 --> 00:06:46,878 Speaker 3: Well, it's it's postseason time. I think we're putting people 124 00:06:46,878 --> 00:06:50,118 Speaker 3: in the stands. But it's it's even though, and I'm, 125 00:06:50,478 --> 00:06:52,638 Speaker 3: you know, kind of the old guy with the Dodgers, 126 00:06:52,678 --> 00:06:54,878 Speaker 3: but it's it's I think, you know, the tech can 127 00:06:54,918 --> 00:06:58,838 Speaker 3: get us a little two dimensional. So I'm really spending 128 00:06:58,878 --> 00:07:03,158 Speaker 3: a lot of time with our guys and on how 129 00:07:03,198 --> 00:07:05,438 Speaker 3: to build these game plans. I mean even just I 130 00:07:05,478 --> 00:07:08,518 Speaker 3: was in Tulsa last week and we have It's funny, 131 00:07:08,558 --> 00:07:11,478 Speaker 3: like you go back, how quickly this happens. Diego Kartaya 132 00:07:11,638 --> 00:07:14,758 Speaker 3: was a well regarded prospect catcher and he's in Double A. 133 00:07:14,838 --> 00:07:18,118 Speaker 3: We have a great staff in Double A. And one 134 00:07:18,118 --> 00:07:20,998 Speaker 3: of the exercises I did with Diego this this offseason 135 00:07:21,118 --> 00:07:23,758 Speaker 3: was on Eli Della Cruz, who they were in the 136 00:07:23,798 --> 00:07:26,238 Speaker 3: same league for much of last year. So we really 137 00:07:26,278 --> 00:07:29,758 Speaker 3: sat down how to watch video, how to take notes, 138 00:07:29,838 --> 00:07:32,958 Speaker 3: how to test your theories, you can dig into the data, 139 00:07:33,798 --> 00:07:35,918 Speaker 3: not get into the rabbit holes, but be able to 140 00:07:35,918 --> 00:07:39,558 Speaker 3: go into a meeting before a game with some fundamentals. 141 00:07:39,558 --> 00:07:41,918 Speaker 3: And this goes back thirty years. How do I want 142 00:07:41,958 --> 00:07:45,678 Speaker 3: to get ahead? If I'm behind? What options do I 143 00:07:45,718 --> 00:07:48,358 Speaker 3: have if I'm ahead? How do I finish him and 144 00:07:48,918 --> 00:07:52,598 Speaker 3: start to frame up you know, discussion that way, because 145 00:07:52,838 --> 00:07:55,238 Speaker 3: I don't want those guys to just learn how to 146 00:07:55,278 --> 00:07:57,358 Speaker 3: memorize a chart. They've got to feel the game, they've 147 00:07:57,358 --> 00:08:00,238 Speaker 3: got to understand the game. They've got to sort of 148 00:08:00,278 --> 00:08:02,678 Speaker 3: be able to do both be able to like see video, 149 00:08:02,798 --> 00:08:07,718 Speaker 3: see swing, see adjustments, and test it and understand it 150 00:08:07,838 --> 00:08:09,918 Speaker 3: with with some principles that we can come up with 151 00:08:09,918 --> 00:08:10,558 Speaker 3: with the data. 152 00:08:11,118 --> 00:08:12,678 Speaker 4: I think it's great because I'll say one thing that 153 00:08:12,678 --> 00:08:14,758 Speaker 4: people don't realize. I mean, for years when we started 154 00:08:14,798 --> 00:08:19,278 Speaker 4: out to teach catchers, that stuff wasn't even happening. I 155 00:08:19,318 --> 00:08:22,358 Speaker 4: mean when I was actually the catching instructor. And if 156 00:08:22,358 --> 00:08:24,558 Speaker 4: you're the catching instructor in the minor leagues in the eighties, 157 00:08:24,758 --> 00:08:27,718 Speaker 4: you have no time to really delve into the mental 158 00:08:27,758 --> 00:08:32,238 Speaker 4: component of the game. How do you actually prepare for 159 00:08:32,318 --> 00:08:34,678 Speaker 4: a series a major league series? How do you pitch 160 00:08:34,718 --> 00:08:37,478 Speaker 4: the certain hitters? What is expansion of the strike zone? 161 00:08:37,478 --> 00:08:40,158 Speaker 4: What is underneath the hitter? When do you elevate? When 162 00:08:40,198 --> 00:08:41,998 Speaker 4: do you elevate in? All that stuff really is not 163 00:08:42,118 --> 00:08:44,478 Speaker 4: never was never discussed on the minor league level. So 164 00:08:44,518 --> 00:08:46,518 Speaker 4: by the time a catcher got to the big leagues, man, 165 00:08:46,558 --> 00:08:49,038 Speaker 4: you're playing catch up in a hurry, and there's all 166 00:08:49,078 --> 00:08:51,238 Speaker 4: like you're saying, all this stuff thrown at you. So 167 00:08:51,278 --> 00:08:54,558 Speaker 4: I like the idea now that minor league wise are 168 00:08:54,638 --> 00:08:57,878 Speaker 4: getting ahead of that with the catchers, because there is, wow, 169 00:08:57,998 --> 00:09:00,998 Speaker 4: there is such a lot of information on a series 170 00:09:00,998 --> 00:09:03,758 Speaker 4: by series, night by night basis, and you are asking 171 00:09:03,758 --> 00:09:08,158 Speaker 4: the guys to digest a lot and it's almost impossible 172 00:09:08,398 --> 00:09:10,478 Speaker 4: and it can become confusing the rabbit hole that you're 173 00:09:10,518 --> 00:09:12,478 Speaker 4: talking about. So it's cool. I mean, I like the 174 00:09:12,558 --> 00:09:15,558 Speaker 4: idea that you're talking about balancing both old with the new. 175 00:09:15,958 --> 00:09:20,478 Speaker 4: But understand me, catchers today in today's world market, catchers 176 00:09:20,518 --> 00:09:25,078 Speaker 4: have so much to study on at some points, at times, 177 00:09:25,078 --> 00:09:27,438 Speaker 4: I think it becomes oppressive to the point it becomes 178 00:09:27,598 --> 00:09:31,238 Speaker 4: almost counter productive. So you need to develop your own cocktail. 179 00:09:31,438 --> 00:09:34,358 Speaker 4: How do we present this? How could our catchers remember this? 180 00:09:34,438 --> 00:09:36,718 Speaker 4: How could they actually utilize this? And to me, that's 181 00:09:36,758 --> 00:09:41,758 Speaker 4: the best way to get all this information taken from data, video, whatever, 182 00:09:41,838 --> 00:09:44,438 Speaker 4: and put behind the plate and utilizing the game. 183 00:09:45,038 --> 00:09:45,998 Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. 184 00:09:46,518 --> 00:09:49,478 Speaker 1: Well, Joe, let me follow up on that, because you know, 185 00:09:49,678 --> 00:09:51,478 Speaker 1: the Dodgers do have a good one there and Will 186 00:09:51,518 --> 00:09:54,878 Speaker 1: Smith and Josh was there overseeing the draft in twenty sixteen, 187 00:09:54,958 --> 00:09:57,798 Speaker 1: first round pick out of Louisville. So, Josh, when you're 188 00:09:57,798 --> 00:10:02,118 Speaker 1: evaluating catchers, and we know a lot of these college 189 00:10:02,158 --> 00:10:05,358 Speaker 1: catchers they're doing everything that the the coaches telling them 190 00:10:05,398 --> 00:10:07,598 Speaker 1: to do. They're not really thinking themselves in the course 191 00:10:07,638 --> 00:10:11,278 Speaker 1: of calling pitches and running a game. So what's the 192 00:10:11,438 --> 00:10:15,158 Speaker 1: challenge is now in not just identifying but developing young 193 00:10:15,238 --> 00:10:18,518 Speaker 1: catchers in this major league environment that Joe talked about. 194 00:10:18,838 --> 00:10:21,318 Speaker 3: Well, Joe's right, let me follow up on that. I 195 00:10:21,318 --> 00:10:24,758 Speaker 3: think the position is the hardest position in sports, maybe 196 00:10:24,758 --> 00:10:28,318 Speaker 3: other than quarterback when you think of everything I listened 197 00:10:28,318 --> 00:10:32,278 Speaker 3: to your podcasts last week and thinking about like Atlee 198 00:10:32,358 --> 00:10:37,198 Speaker 3: Rutchman and some of those leadership in tangible qualities he's 199 00:10:37,238 --> 00:10:39,758 Speaker 3: bringing to a team and the prep and there's a 200 00:10:39,798 --> 00:10:41,598 Speaker 3: lot I've spent a lot of time in this. You know, 201 00:10:42,678 --> 00:10:44,638 Speaker 3: you start even with Will Smith as he was coming 202 00:10:44,678 --> 00:10:47,358 Speaker 3: through the miners. Aj Ellis and I used to talk 203 00:10:47,398 --> 00:10:49,198 Speaker 3: about this. So how much time do you have to 204 00:10:49,238 --> 00:10:54,078 Speaker 3: devote to a series? You know, it might be ninety 205 00:10:54,118 --> 00:10:55,558 Speaker 3: minutes to go through thirteen hitters. 206 00:10:55,638 --> 00:10:56,118 Speaker 4: That's fine. 207 00:10:56,398 --> 00:10:58,798 Speaker 3: You know I would put like Yasmani Grondel on the clock. 208 00:10:58,878 --> 00:11:01,638 Speaker 3: You have five minutes to go through buster posey against 209 00:11:01,678 --> 00:11:05,118 Speaker 3: right handed pitching. Come up with something, have some more product, 210 00:11:05,278 --> 00:11:09,638 Speaker 3: get it. Start the discussion, because to Joe's point, if 211 00:11:09,678 --> 00:11:12,918 Speaker 3: it's too much or it's too much memorization, we're probably 212 00:11:12,958 --> 00:11:15,478 Speaker 3: not getting anywhere. You need to have some knowledge that 213 00:11:15,518 --> 00:11:18,398 Speaker 3: you can get into a game, feel the game, understand 214 00:11:18,478 --> 00:11:20,718 Speaker 3: the adjustments. I think it's one of the benefits of 215 00:11:20,758 --> 00:11:25,478 Speaker 3: the minor leagues with these six game series. Now they're 216 00:11:25,478 --> 00:11:27,678 Speaker 3: playing a team a lot in a short amount of time, 217 00:11:27,798 --> 00:11:29,878 Speaker 3: so there's some there's some ebb and flow to how 218 00:11:30,038 --> 00:11:31,118 Speaker 3: you know, if we're going to pitch a guy the 219 00:11:31,198 --> 00:11:34,438 Speaker 3: same way for six days, he's going to adjust to it. 220 00:11:34,518 --> 00:11:38,958 Speaker 3: So even in that setting, this past week, you know, 221 00:11:39,238 --> 00:11:41,918 Speaker 3: probably the best I've been around with Jason Veritech and 222 00:11:42,158 --> 00:11:45,838 Speaker 3: talking about you know, when you overexpose a pitcher location 223 00:11:46,078 --> 00:11:49,398 Speaker 3: or are we going inside to influence the hitter? Are 224 00:11:49,438 --> 00:11:52,278 Speaker 3: we going inside for strikes? And really understanding the push 225 00:11:52,318 --> 00:11:56,118 Speaker 3: pull of it, which is feeling the game, understanding the 226 00:11:56,118 --> 00:11:58,318 Speaker 3: game more than just memorizing a chart, you. 227 00:11:58,278 --> 00:12:00,958 Speaker 4: Know, and talk and regarding the catchers. Now, what you're 228 00:12:00,958 --> 00:12:03,758 Speaker 4: going to be looking for down the road if in fact, 229 00:12:04,278 --> 00:12:07,118 Speaker 4: I'm sure obviously thought about it, but the potential for 230 00:12:07,158 --> 00:12:09,518 Speaker 4: the electronic strike zone, how is this going to influence? 231 00:12:09,918 --> 00:12:11,358 Speaker 4: First of all, do you think it's gonna happen? If 232 00:12:11,358 --> 00:12:14,238 Speaker 4: it's gonna happen, how would that then influence your scouting 233 00:12:14,278 --> 00:12:16,198 Speaker 4: of catchers and what are we looking for in catchers? 234 00:12:16,198 --> 00:12:20,038 Speaker 4: I mean, there's definitely be a different skill set involved, 235 00:12:20,358 --> 00:12:22,838 Speaker 4: different mindset regarding how to do all this. Is that 236 00:12:23,278 --> 00:12:25,798 Speaker 4: something you guys have discussed. Is that something baseball in 237 00:12:25,838 --> 00:12:28,158 Speaker 4: general is discussing or do you think this is really 238 00:12:28,198 --> 00:12:31,998 Speaker 4: not going to happen? Because to me, I obviously if 239 00:12:32,038 --> 00:12:37,158 Speaker 4: we do go electronically, you're gonna settle regarding what an 240 00:12:37,238 --> 00:12:40,758 Speaker 4: actual catcher can do I think behind the plate, receiving strikes, 241 00:12:40,758 --> 00:12:43,518 Speaker 4: et cetera. And then that will also influence how you're 242 00:12:43,558 --> 00:12:44,838 Speaker 4: going to scout that position too. 243 00:12:45,598 --> 00:12:49,878 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's a great question. And you know, 244 00:12:49,918 --> 00:12:52,438 Speaker 3: I think most people, I think MLB has gotten this 245 00:12:52,518 --> 00:12:55,998 Speaker 3: feedback that to go to a totally automated strike zone 246 00:12:56,198 --> 00:13:00,038 Speaker 3: is probably going too far. And I know, you know, 247 00:13:00,358 --> 00:13:02,398 Speaker 3: we have it immediately on our phones. We can look 248 00:13:02,398 --> 00:13:04,798 Speaker 3: at pitches and you have it on Twitter and you 249 00:13:04,838 --> 00:13:07,118 Speaker 3: know when the umpire's missed calls. But that's also part 250 00:13:07,158 --> 00:13:10,878 Speaker 3: of the game, and I think if we go too far, 251 00:13:11,958 --> 00:13:14,758 Speaker 3: we might like distort the catcher position more than we 252 00:13:14,798 --> 00:13:18,478 Speaker 3: would ever want to. Yeah, like framing is part of it, 253 00:13:18,518 --> 00:13:22,718 Speaker 3: but We've always said, look, game calling, targeting, receiving, blocking, throwing, 254 00:13:23,318 --> 00:13:25,438 Speaker 3: how you lead a staff. There's a lot to it 255 00:13:25,678 --> 00:13:29,518 Speaker 3: other than just the print out of your framing score. 256 00:13:29,758 --> 00:13:34,278 Speaker 3: And I think finding creating a system where yeah, balls 257 00:13:34,318 --> 00:13:36,758 Speaker 3: or balls and strikes or strikes, but that we don't 258 00:13:36,838 --> 00:13:41,118 Speaker 3: change the position fundamentally, I think is important. Obviously with 259 00:13:41,158 --> 00:13:45,398 Speaker 3: the running game now you know we're spending more energy 260 00:13:45,478 --> 00:13:50,998 Speaker 3: on on catchers, throwing pitchers, holding them on infielders, making tags, 261 00:13:51,118 --> 00:13:53,398 Speaker 3: and I think these are good things. This is more, 262 00:13:53,438 --> 00:13:56,718 Speaker 3: there's more to the game. But I think to totally 263 00:13:56,798 --> 00:14:01,998 Speaker 3: automate the strike zone we probably go too far. You 264 00:14:02,038 --> 00:14:04,158 Speaker 3: look at teams now. I think some teams at the 265 00:14:04,158 --> 00:14:06,758 Speaker 3: major league level having their catchers set up more middle, 266 00:14:07,718 --> 00:14:09,998 Speaker 3: not trying to sort of set up on either side 267 00:14:10,038 --> 00:14:12,518 Speaker 3: and steal strikes, try to give the picture a better target. 268 00:14:12,598 --> 00:14:16,158 Speaker 3: And what's the sort of tred off of that. So 269 00:14:16,318 --> 00:14:18,918 Speaker 3: you know, if we get to like three challenges, a 270 00:14:18,918 --> 00:14:21,278 Speaker 3: little bit of strategy in the game, the egregious call, 271 00:14:21,398 --> 00:14:25,878 Speaker 3: high leverage call can be looked at more like tennis. Okay, 272 00:14:25,998 --> 00:14:28,718 Speaker 3: but I think to go every pitch of every game. 273 00:14:29,478 --> 00:14:31,798 Speaker 3: My sense is that most people in the game think 274 00:14:31,838 --> 00:14:32,678 Speaker 3: that's going too far. 275 00:14:33,518 --> 00:14:35,798 Speaker 2: I agree, amen to that, Josh. 276 00:14:35,838 --> 00:14:38,278 Speaker 1: And for people who are not familiar with the challenge 277 00:14:38,318 --> 00:14:41,038 Speaker 1: system that's been used in the minor leagues, it works well. 278 00:14:41,358 --> 00:14:42,118 Speaker 2: It's very cool. 279 00:14:42,558 --> 00:14:45,278 Speaker 1: As Josh alluded to, you get three challenges in a game, 280 00:14:45,638 --> 00:14:48,198 Speaker 1: and it does not come from the dugout, the catch 281 00:14:48,278 --> 00:14:50,438 Speaker 1: or the pitcher, the hitter, or the ones you can say, hey, 282 00:14:50,758 --> 00:14:53,838 Speaker 1: I don't think you got that call right, And just 283 00:14:53,958 --> 00:14:57,078 Speaker 1: like the Hawkeye system and tennis, you'll see even on 284 00:14:57,078 --> 00:15:00,718 Speaker 1: a video board, the computer readout whether that ball is 285 00:15:00,758 --> 00:15:01,918 Speaker 1: in the strike zone or not. 286 00:15:02,118 --> 00:15:05,518 Speaker 2: You know very very quickly. There's no real wasted time here. 287 00:15:06,838 --> 00:15:09,118 Speaker 1: And I like the fact that it's a strategic element 288 00:15:09,198 --> 00:15:11,078 Speaker 1: because obviously you're not going to challenge a pitch in 289 00:15:11,118 --> 00:15:13,478 Speaker 1: the first standing on a one to one pitch, but 290 00:15:13,558 --> 00:15:17,598 Speaker 1: those key pitches that may decide a game, talking bases loaded, 291 00:15:17,678 --> 00:15:20,198 Speaker 1: three to two pitch, you know, eighth, ninth inning, we 292 00:15:20,238 --> 00:15:21,398 Speaker 1: want to get those right. 293 00:15:21,518 --> 00:15:23,438 Speaker 2: So I think the system works quickly. 294 00:15:23,638 --> 00:15:26,238 Speaker 1: I think there's some fan engagement involved with it as 295 00:15:26,238 --> 00:15:30,278 Speaker 1: they can follow along in real time, and it seems 296 00:15:30,318 --> 00:15:32,158 Speaker 1: to work well. It does not slow the game down, 297 00:15:32,198 --> 00:15:35,238 Speaker 1: so I think that transition that's the way to go 298 00:15:35,318 --> 00:15:36,918 Speaker 1: for me as well. I would not want to see 299 00:15:36,918 --> 00:15:40,198 Speaker 1: the full on robo. I'm so to speak right away. Well, 300 00:15:40,198 --> 00:15:43,238 Speaker 1: we talked a lot about technology, and certainly Josh, you know, 301 00:15:43,318 --> 00:15:47,118 Speaker 1: well there's a lot of science involved in the scouting business. 302 00:15:47,598 --> 00:15:51,438 Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about the art of scouting 303 00:15:51,438 --> 00:15:54,398 Speaker 1: and some of the so called magic involved with identifying 304 00:15:54,518 --> 00:15:56,958 Speaker 1: and developing talent. We talk about that when we get 305 00:15:56,998 --> 00:16:05,198 Speaker 1: back on the Book of Joe. 306 00:16:08,798 --> 00:16:10,718 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. 307 00:16:10,918 --> 00:16:13,478 Speaker 1: And Josh and I look back at, you know, your 308 00:16:13,558 --> 00:16:16,158 Speaker 1: career and some of the drafts that you have overseen. 309 00:16:16,558 --> 00:16:17,838 Speaker 1: You're going to go back to when you were in 310 00:16:17,878 --> 00:16:22,438 Speaker 1: Arizona twenty six, two thousand and six to twenty ten, 311 00:16:23,478 --> 00:16:27,798 Speaker 1: the Diamondbacks had the highest career combined war from those 312 00:16:27,878 --> 00:16:31,958 Speaker 1: drafts together people like surez Or Goldschmid, aj Pollock, and 313 00:16:31,998 --> 00:16:35,118 Speaker 1: now recently with the Dodgers since twenty fifteen, it's just 314 00:16:35,198 --> 00:16:39,118 Speaker 1: amazing the fines that the Dodgers not only have gotten 315 00:16:39,158 --> 00:16:42,398 Speaker 1: in the draft but developed in the farm system. You know, 316 00:16:42,518 --> 00:16:45,238 Speaker 1: maybe you can say Will Smith, Walker Buehler, those guys, 317 00:16:45,278 --> 00:16:47,358 Speaker 1: maybe obvious to a lot of people, were talking about 318 00:16:47,398 --> 00:16:50,478 Speaker 1: number one picks, but the Dodgers have had a high 319 00:16:50,558 --> 00:16:54,838 Speaker 1: hit rate in my book, on especially college players drafted 320 00:16:54,998 --> 00:16:59,438 Speaker 1: later in rounds. You know, the Tony Gonsolin's, the Andre Jackson's, 321 00:16:59,838 --> 00:17:02,358 Speaker 1: Johnny DeLuca just called up to the big league's twenty 322 00:17:02,358 --> 00:17:08,118 Speaker 1: fifth rounder, Gavin Stone fifth round. There's a lot of guys, Josh, 323 00:17:08,238 --> 00:17:13,718 Speaker 1: that Dodgers have identified and developed that exceeded what the 324 00:17:13,838 --> 00:17:15,238 Speaker 1: industry thought of them. 325 00:17:15,358 --> 00:17:15,478 Speaker 2: This. 326 00:17:15,598 --> 00:17:17,998 Speaker 1: I know it's a tricky question to kind of summarize, 327 00:17:18,038 --> 00:17:20,558 Speaker 1: but is there something that you feel the Dodgers are 328 00:17:20,598 --> 00:17:23,838 Speaker 1: doing well in that regard because as successful as Los 329 00:17:23,838 --> 00:17:26,118 Speaker 1: Angeles has been, you guys are not picking at the 330 00:17:26,158 --> 00:17:27,158 Speaker 1: top of the draft. 331 00:17:27,718 --> 00:17:30,118 Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's it's I mean, in some ways 332 00:17:30,118 --> 00:17:32,758 Speaker 3: it's sort of obvious, but I think, you know, like 333 00:17:32,958 --> 00:17:35,918 Speaker 3: when people say, well, the Dodgers' success has been sort 334 00:17:35,918 --> 00:17:39,718 Speaker 3: of checkbook baseball, Well, yeah, we have. We've had a 335 00:17:39,758 --> 00:17:41,878 Speaker 3: high payroll and we've been able to be aggressive at 336 00:17:41,878 --> 00:17:44,358 Speaker 3: the top of the market. But if you flip it 337 00:17:44,398 --> 00:17:48,278 Speaker 3: to the draft, this is my ninth year of the Dodgers, 338 00:17:48,318 --> 00:17:51,518 Speaker 3: I mean, we've sort of obviously spent the least amount 339 00:17:51,518 --> 00:17:54,238 Speaker 3: of draft dollars. The system sort of flips itself. On 340 00:17:54,278 --> 00:17:56,798 Speaker 3: the other end, that we pick late, we've lost picks 341 00:17:56,798 --> 00:18:01,838 Speaker 3: with free agency, So just an aggregate dollars among thirty teams, 342 00:18:01,878 --> 00:18:04,958 Speaker 3: we've spent the least. So when we talk to our guys, 343 00:18:05,598 --> 00:18:07,558 Speaker 3: we're like, look, we're at a little bit of a 344 00:18:07,598 --> 00:18:11,438 Speaker 3: disadvantage as we go into the draft. We've got to 345 00:18:11,438 --> 00:18:14,398 Speaker 3: find we've got to obviously get our top picks right, 346 00:18:14,398 --> 00:18:17,198 Speaker 3: but we've got to be relentless running mid and late 347 00:18:17,278 --> 00:18:20,558 Speaker 3: round players. And so there's there's a messaging and importance 348 00:18:20,638 --> 00:18:24,198 Speaker 3: placed on it. But and then the execution is, you know, 349 00:18:24,198 --> 00:18:26,398 Speaker 3: our scouts are really good at it. They take a 350 00:18:26,438 --> 00:18:28,998 Speaker 3: lot of pride in it. We're even at this point 351 00:18:28,998 --> 00:18:32,278 Speaker 3: in the calendar before we even get into meetings, we're 352 00:18:32,318 --> 00:18:34,638 Speaker 3: going through zooms and going through these depth guys, and 353 00:18:34,678 --> 00:18:38,518 Speaker 3: it's it's you know, obviously seeing all these players, writing reports, 354 00:18:38,518 --> 00:18:41,998 Speaker 3: talking about them all spring is time consuming this point 355 00:18:42,078 --> 00:18:46,158 Speaker 3: in the calendar, trying to rank them and build little 356 00:18:46,198 --> 00:18:51,278 Speaker 3: pockets of players. And then you know, the best I've 357 00:18:51,278 --> 00:18:53,798 Speaker 3: been around Paul Coogan, who I worked with in Cleveland 358 00:18:54,798 --> 00:18:56,798 Speaker 3: and was able to bring him over to LA and 359 00:18:56,838 --> 00:18:58,878 Speaker 3: he had a lot to do with James Autman and 360 00:18:58,958 --> 00:19:02,918 Speaker 3: Dean Kremer and a lot of these guys. You know, 361 00:19:03,158 --> 00:19:06,198 Speaker 3: he just has a credible knack for understanding what a 362 00:19:06,238 --> 00:19:08,758 Speaker 3: mid or late round guy isn't understanding the odds, Like 363 00:19:08,838 --> 00:19:10,918 Speaker 3: it's really hard to find a major league player in 364 00:19:10,918 --> 00:19:14,678 Speaker 3: those rounds. So you know, it's kind of what we're 365 00:19:14,678 --> 00:19:17,558 Speaker 3: talking about earlier. Like I always say, like, look, we're gonna, 366 00:19:17,718 --> 00:19:20,198 Speaker 3: we're gonna work really hard, we're gonna we're gonna look 367 00:19:20,238 --> 00:19:22,478 Speaker 3: at it every which way, and then there's a pencils 368 00:19:22,518 --> 00:19:26,398 Speaker 3: down moment where like some common sense, you know, look 369 00:19:26,518 --> 00:19:29,798 Speaker 3: forward to draft, another team takes that player. Are you 370 00:19:29,878 --> 00:19:33,198 Speaker 3: indifferent or are you like you know, and that was 371 00:19:33,238 --> 00:19:34,878 Speaker 3: the guy we wanted. That's the guy we wanted on 372 00:19:34,918 --> 00:19:37,878 Speaker 3: our backfields, that we wanted to work with in development, 373 00:19:39,678 --> 00:19:42,558 Speaker 3: trying to you know, take all that work and put 374 00:19:42,558 --> 00:19:45,518 Speaker 3: it in the end zone, so to speak. You know, 375 00:19:45,678 --> 00:19:47,478 Speaker 3: I think this is the time of year where that 376 00:19:47,638 --> 00:19:51,478 Speaker 3: softer focus and like Paul was as good as I've 377 00:19:51,478 --> 00:19:54,238 Speaker 3: been around after all this work running around here are 378 00:19:54,278 --> 00:19:56,678 Speaker 3: like the three guys that are really stuck on his brain. 379 00:19:57,958 --> 00:19:59,998 Speaker 3: And you know, for all of our staff to sort 380 00:19:59,998 --> 00:20:04,158 Speaker 3: of have those guys and we talked through them. You know, 381 00:20:04,278 --> 00:20:06,758 Speaker 3: the odds again are against you in those rounds, but 382 00:20:07,518 --> 00:20:10,798 Speaker 3: you know, just really really work through that process and 383 00:20:10,878 --> 00:20:12,438 Speaker 3: try to find the guys we want. 384 00:20:12,998 --> 00:20:15,078 Speaker 4: How about I mean, ask you this question, nack. I 385 00:20:15,118 --> 00:20:18,878 Speaker 4: love the word is when you say when Paul's got knack, 386 00:20:18,958 --> 00:20:20,678 Speaker 4: he's got a knack for this. Is it based on 387 00:20:20,798 --> 00:20:25,558 Speaker 4: in your mind, feel an experience, pounding the bushes, driving 388 00:20:25,598 --> 00:20:28,478 Speaker 4: in a car, going to so many different venues? Is 389 00:20:28,518 --> 00:20:32,558 Speaker 4: the knack based on numbers, being able to read video 390 00:20:33,438 --> 00:20:36,638 Speaker 4: data driven? Or is the knack based on a combination 391 00:20:36,718 --> 00:20:39,118 Speaker 4: of both, Because to me, they would I'm not trying 392 00:20:39,118 --> 00:20:42,198 Speaker 4: to answer the question. For me, that would be in 393 00:20:42,318 --> 00:20:44,198 Speaker 4: my experience, in my life as a scout, it was 394 00:20:44,238 --> 00:20:46,358 Speaker 4: based on all of those different things. So it sounds 395 00:20:46,358 --> 00:20:48,998 Speaker 4: to me like he has a good eye, like he 396 00:20:49,078 --> 00:20:51,318 Speaker 4: sees things. I mean, I'm really big into saying things. 397 00:20:52,438 --> 00:20:54,838 Speaker 4: Certain guys, certain scouts, they can see things. When you 398 00:20:54,838 --> 00:20:57,118 Speaker 4: have to see things to me without bias, you have 399 00:20:57,158 --> 00:21:00,158 Speaker 4: to have this this filter about yourself that you're able 400 00:21:00,198 --> 00:21:05,118 Speaker 4: to keep your own personal feelings aside from this process 401 00:21:05,198 --> 00:21:08,278 Speaker 4: and what am I seeing in the pure world, pure intentions, 402 00:21:08,318 --> 00:21:11,638 Speaker 4: pure basis. So when you talk about NAC. How would 403 00:21:11,678 --> 00:21:14,078 Speaker 4: you define NAC for a guy like. 404 00:21:14,078 --> 00:21:17,758 Speaker 3: Him, Well, his feel is incredible and that's that is 405 00:21:18,438 --> 00:21:21,398 Speaker 3: a hard thing to you know, some guys have a 406 00:21:21,478 --> 00:21:25,878 Speaker 3: better field than others. And he now, Paul is very curious. 407 00:21:26,518 --> 00:21:29,278 Speaker 3: He's always thinking through the player every which way. He 408 00:21:29,358 --> 00:21:32,678 Speaker 3: is not around with the crowd type of guy. I mean, 409 00:21:32,758 --> 00:21:35,078 Speaker 3: you hear a lot of scouts. I was at this 410 00:21:35,198 --> 00:21:38,718 Speaker 3: game and there were five scouting directors there. You know, 411 00:21:39,038 --> 00:21:42,078 Speaker 3: to some degree, who cares like we're going to scout 412 00:21:42,118 --> 00:21:46,718 Speaker 3: our process and ultimately determine the guys we like. And 413 00:21:46,758 --> 00:21:50,078 Speaker 3: then Paul really knows. I mean he spends a lot 414 00:21:50,078 --> 00:21:53,198 Speaker 3: of time on the backstory a human being got to 415 00:21:53,238 --> 00:21:57,638 Speaker 3: this point where where it can go. I mean, like 416 00:21:57,758 --> 00:22:00,878 Speaker 3: Tony gonsling Is is a great example. I mean, Tony's 417 00:22:00,918 --> 00:22:03,238 Speaker 3: not the only guy who was a two way player 418 00:22:03,278 --> 00:22:06,638 Speaker 3: in college and maybe like more time and effort spent 419 00:22:06,958 --> 00:22:10,638 Speaker 3: as a hitter. There are those guys, but there was 420 00:22:10,758 --> 00:22:15,078 Speaker 3: there were parts of Tony where Paul was really bullish. 421 00:22:15,598 --> 00:22:17,678 Speaker 3: You know, even after we drafted him. I remember Paul 422 00:22:17,798 --> 00:22:20,598 Speaker 3: called me I saw Tony that like what do you think? 423 00:22:20,638 --> 00:22:22,798 Speaker 3: And I kind of gave a generic review I was like, hey, 424 00:22:22,918 --> 00:22:24,998 Speaker 3: so you know, he's touching ninety four. He can spend 425 00:22:24,998 --> 00:22:27,718 Speaker 3: it like and and Paul was just Adam, and He's like, 426 00:22:28,638 --> 00:22:29,958 Speaker 3: in a year or two, I think we're going to 427 00:22:30,038 --> 00:22:33,238 Speaker 3: be pleasantly surprised at how this turns out. And that's cool, 428 00:22:33,278 --> 00:22:38,078 Speaker 3: you know. So there's definitely a lot of feel and 429 00:22:38,078 --> 00:22:42,238 Speaker 3: and Paul really digs deep on sort of the person 430 00:22:42,278 --> 00:22:44,198 Speaker 3: and the story and what we're getting. 431 00:22:44,998 --> 00:22:47,358 Speaker 4: No, but I just conclude with this, And I was 432 00:22:47,398 --> 00:22:50,038 Speaker 4: a young Scouts City get Packard Stadium at the issue. 433 00:22:50,038 --> 00:22:52,238 Speaker 4: I'm sitting in a month like this gaggle of really 434 00:22:52,798 --> 00:22:56,398 Speaker 4: legendary Scouts, but of course among them with some guys 435 00:22:56,438 --> 00:22:58,718 Speaker 4: that maybe maybe did not do as much work or 436 00:22:58,878 --> 00:23:02,198 Speaker 4: weren't as good. And now it led me to believe 437 00:23:02,278 --> 00:23:04,598 Speaker 4: or conclude that some of these guys could lose their 438 00:23:04,638 --> 00:23:07,278 Speaker 4: sense of sight and still be able to scout, but 439 00:23:07,278 --> 00:23:09,118 Speaker 4: if they lost their sense of hearing, they were done. 440 00:23:09,478 --> 00:23:11,958 Speaker 4: I mean, because when you when you're traveling to gaggle, 441 00:23:11,998 --> 00:23:14,798 Speaker 4: like you're talking about some of these some of these 442 00:23:14,838 --> 00:23:19,078 Speaker 4: guys just scout based on what everybody else is saying. 443 00:23:19,158 --> 00:23:22,558 Speaker 4: I liked the Lone Wolves Lake Christopher Lone Wolf mister 444 00:23:22,638 --> 00:23:25,358 Speaker 4: Boone Lone Wolf. All these students would sit off to 445 00:23:25,398 --> 00:23:28,678 Speaker 4: the side by themselves. They did not want to be influenced, 446 00:23:28,678 --> 00:23:32,998 Speaker 4: their influence anybody else around them. And I loved the real, 447 00:23:33,158 --> 00:23:35,598 Speaker 4: the real scouts man that I hung at Gene Thompson 448 00:23:35,638 --> 00:23:39,518 Speaker 4: the best. I hung up with some really legendary scouts 449 00:23:39,558 --> 00:23:42,118 Speaker 4: and it was really obvious to me some guys, if 450 00:23:42,158 --> 00:23:44,438 Speaker 4: they could not hear anymore, they were done as a scout. 451 00:23:45,278 --> 00:23:48,998 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's a pretty cool thing. I mean, even Paul, 452 00:23:49,398 --> 00:23:51,718 Speaker 3: Paul's on the cape right now, he texted me last night. 453 00:23:51,838 --> 00:23:53,878 Speaker 3: I mean, it just it is a mindset to go 454 00:23:53,958 --> 00:23:57,638 Speaker 3: back to the original question that there are players. And 455 00:23:57,958 --> 00:23:59,958 Speaker 3: I think I think our whole staff, I mean last year, 456 00:24:00,598 --> 00:24:03,038 Speaker 3: you know, Day three is now rounds eleven through twenty, 457 00:24:03,078 --> 00:24:05,678 Speaker 3: and we worked process. We take the guys and we 458 00:24:05,878 --> 00:24:07,878 Speaker 3: get him into our mini camp and off we go 459 00:24:07,958 --> 00:24:11,918 Speaker 3: and instructional league and our you know, our player development 460 00:24:11,958 --> 00:24:15,318 Speaker 3: staff and we work hand in hand, and you know, 461 00:24:15,438 --> 00:24:17,398 Speaker 3: it's it's like, look, there's a reason why we took 462 00:24:17,438 --> 00:24:20,998 Speaker 3: those ten players in rounds eleven through twenty. Uh, there's 463 00:24:21,038 --> 00:24:24,758 Speaker 3: a chance major league outcome. We can see, Uh, this 464 00:24:24,838 --> 00:24:27,158 Speaker 3: is you know, you go back to player development, the 465 00:24:27,158 --> 00:24:29,198 Speaker 3: player plans. Where has he been, where is he now? 466 00:24:29,238 --> 00:24:32,958 Speaker 3: Where's he going? We have time in the minors to 467 00:24:32,958 --> 00:24:34,998 Speaker 3: to you know, Chris Nowle, who we took in the 468 00:24:35,038 --> 00:24:39,078 Speaker 3: thirteenth round last year out of University of Virginia, leads 469 00:24:39,118 --> 00:24:41,198 Speaker 3: his draft pass and home runs as we sit here today, 470 00:24:41,318 --> 00:24:44,598 Speaker 3: seventeen home runs. We took the entire summer and fall 471 00:24:44,998 --> 00:24:46,758 Speaker 3: to just rebuild a swing kind of what we do 472 00:24:46,798 --> 00:24:50,598 Speaker 3: with outman. Start from scratch, very good athlete, and let's 473 00:24:50,598 --> 00:24:54,358 Speaker 3: build a better foundation to go compete. But there's a 474 00:24:54,478 --> 00:24:58,558 Speaker 3: real even though the reality is how many of those 475 00:24:58,598 --> 00:25:00,798 Speaker 3: ten guys rounds eleven through twenty will pint out? I 476 00:25:00,838 --> 00:25:04,398 Speaker 3: don't know how much you know, will it be evident 477 00:25:04,478 --> 00:25:07,398 Speaker 3: to you know, major league fans and media. It'll take 478 00:25:07,478 --> 00:25:10,478 Speaker 3: some time. But the starting point matters, and we gave 479 00:25:10,478 --> 00:25:12,558 Speaker 3: ourselves a chance with those ten guys. 480 00:25:12,758 --> 00:25:14,318 Speaker 2: Oh here's a stat for you. 481 00:25:14,438 --> 00:25:18,198 Speaker 1: From twenty fifteen to twenty nineteen, the Dodgers drafted and 482 00:25:18,318 --> 00:25:21,118 Speaker 1: signed thirty three major leaguers. 483 00:25:21,838 --> 00:25:24,798 Speaker 2: And to give you an idea of how many that. 484 00:25:23,838 --> 00:25:27,518 Speaker 1: That is, the other teams in the NL West, nobody 485 00:25:27,558 --> 00:25:30,638 Speaker 1: had more than twenty seven so the Dodgers are picking 486 00:25:30,678 --> 00:25:33,558 Speaker 1: after everybody else and they're producing more big leaguers in 487 00:25:33,638 --> 00:25:37,318 Speaker 1: the twenty sixteen draft. I mean, people are talking about 488 00:25:37,358 --> 00:25:41,878 Speaker 1: that as an all time draft. We're talking about Will Smith, 489 00:25:41,958 --> 00:25:47,118 Speaker 1: Gavin Lux, Dustin May, Tony Gonsolin, Jordan Sheffield, Dean Kramer, 490 00:25:47,278 --> 00:25:51,358 Speaker 1: Devin Smeltzer, Andre Scrubb, Luke Railey, Zach McKinstry. It goes 491 00:25:51,478 --> 00:25:55,678 Speaker 1: on and on and on. And what I keep noticing, Josh, 492 00:25:55,758 --> 00:25:59,118 Speaker 1: is that you guys, especially with the college players, not 493 00:25:59,198 --> 00:26:03,598 Speaker 1: necessarily from Power five conferences. We're talking later at mid 494 00:26:03,678 --> 00:26:07,798 Speaker 1: round here, what is it about the college player today 495 00:26:07,918 --> 00:26:09,358 Speaker 1: that the Dodgers have been hitting on? 496 00:26:10,278 --> 00:26:13,638 Speaker 3: Well, it's it depends, and it's you know, it's funny. 497 00:26:13,638 --> 00:26:16,278 Speaker 3: I mean even I'm sure you guys know this. I mean, 498 00:26:16,438 --> 00:26:18,958 Speaker 3: I think the pitching maybe at the more the Power 499 00:26:18,998 --> 00:26:23,398 Speaker 3: conferences at the college level more resembles like lower level 500 00:26:23,918 --> 00:26:26,158 Speaker 3: professional pitching. They're using them, you know, they have their 501 00:26:26,238 --> 00:26:29,958 Speaker 3: pitching labs, that the language, the tech, the pitch characteristics, 502 00:26:30,078 --> 00:26:33,718 Speaker 3: some of the movement principles. So it sort of looks like, 503 00:26:34,558 --> 00:26:37,718 Speaker 3: you know, and obviously there's been some crossover with with 504 00:26:38,598 --> 00:26:40,918 Speaker 3: guys coming straight from college to a big league pitching 505 00:26:40,918 --> 00:26:44,598 Speaker 3: coach job, and I don't think the hitting flows quite 506 00:26:44,638 --> 00:26:47,878 Speaker 3: the same. So and it's just hard. We spend a 507 00:26:47,918 --> 00:26:49,918 Speaker 3: lot of time with college staffs. I mean they don't 508 00:26:49,918 --> 00:26:51,838 Speaker 3: they have players from eighteen to twenty one. They know 509 00:26:51,838 --> 00:26:54,038 Speaker 3: them as much practice time they've got to win tonight. 510 00:26:55,198 --> 00:26:57,718 Speaker 3: What I just described with Chris Newell or James Outman 511 00:26:57,838 --> 00:27:02,278 Speaker 3: is just time they don't have. And when we, you know, taught. 512 00:27:02,318 --> 00:27:05,998 Speaker 3: We talked guys last year as we're high picks dominated 513 00:27:06,078 --> 00:27:08,878 Speaker 3: major conferences and we either interviewed them face to face 514 00:27:08,998 --> 00:27:12,918 Speaker 3: or get on zoom. It's pretty basic. They're just trying 515 00:27:12,958 --> 00:27:16,318 Speaker 3: to survive the college baseball gauntlet in the SEC or 516 00:27:16,358 --> 00:27:19,478 Speaker 3: the pack of the ACC or whatever, and so we 517 00:27:19,598 --> 00:27:22,038 Speaker 3: have to kind of know what we're starting with. And 518 00:27:22,078 --> 00:27:24,118 Speaker 3: on the hitting side in particular, I think it's a 519 00:27:24,158 --> 00:27:27,518 Speaker 3: more advanced curriculum. I mean Will Smith, who did surge late, 520 00:27:27,598 --> 00:27:28,918 Speaker 3: so I think a few teams had him in that 521 00:27:28,998 --> 00:27:31,558 Speaker 3: area of the draft, but some people thought we took 522 00:27:31,598 --> 00:27:34,718 Speaker 3: him too high. And you know, Will really didn't play 523 00:27:34,718 --> 00:27:37,278 Speaker 3: a lot till his junior year. I was a catcher 524 00:27:37,318 --> 00:27:41,638 Speaker 3: conversion in college, and you know, had a very sort 525 00:27:41,638 --> 00:27:46,158 Speaker 3: of boring conservative college swing as a junior. And you know, 526 00:27:46,198 --> 00:27:48,198 Speaker 3: we said, Will, look, you're a great athlete. You don't 527 00:27:48,198 --> 00:27:51,438 Speaker 3: swing and miss. You got to get stronger. We got 528 00:27:51,478 --> 00:27:52,598 Speaker 3: to hit the driver off the tee. 529 00:27:52,598 --> 00:27:52,958 Speaker 4: We got it. 530 00:27:52,998 --> 00:27:55,158 Speaker 3: We got to build a more dynamic swing. And as 531 00:27:55,158 --> 00:27:58,438 Speaker 3: we went, you know, there's a point in double a 532 00:27:58,598 --> 00:28:00,158 Speaker 3: with Will, I said, hey, we got to put we 533 00:28:00,198 --> 00:28:02,198 Speaker 3: got to put the old Will and the new Will together. 534 00:28:02,318 --> 00:28:05,678 Speaker 3: This sort of elite contact skill a hitter with the 535 00:28:05,718 --> 00:28:08,718 Speaker 3: guy who can do damage. And you know, and he's 536 00:28:08,758 --> 00:28:12,838 Speaker 3: probably as good an example as anyone in the peaks 537 00:28:12,838 --> 00:28:15,078 Speaker 3: and valleys of his own development. I think he never 538 00:28:15,198 --> 00:28:17,238 Speaker 3: sort of lost sight of the outcome and the kind 539 00:28:17,278 --> 00:28:20,478 Speaker 3: of hitter he could be. There's some trial and error, 540 00:28:20,518 --> 00:28:22,558 Speaker 3: there's some things that work for him and didn't, but 541 00:28:22,638 --> 00:28:26,718 Speaker 3: by the time he sort of had, you know, developed 542 00:28:26,718 --> 00:28:28,518 Speaker 3: as a hitter, obviously it's turned out to be a 543 00:28:28,598 --> 00:28:29,678 Speaker 3: really good major league hitter. 544 00:28:30,438 --> 00:28:32,038 Speaker 2: And if I could, I wanted to follow up. 545 00:28:32,118 --> 00:28:34,998 Speaker 1: We talked about those guys that you know, you do 546 00:28:35,118 --> 00:28:38,398 Speaker 1: so much work on background of players, and I'm sure 547 00:28:38,398 --> 00:28:40,598 Speaker 1: it's probably something that can put a guy over the top, 548 00:28:40,638 --> 00:28:42,638 Speaker 1: movie up on the board when you love the character, 549 00:28:43,158 --> 00:28:46,398 Speaker 1: you find out about the background, the family, the motor 550 00:28:46,398 --> 00:28:50,318 Speaker 1: inside the player. Does it sometimes go the other way, Josh, 551 00:28:50,398 --> 00:28:55,278 Speaker 1: where you've got someone who's extremely talented, and yet some 552 00:28:55,318 --> 00:28:59,078 Speaker 1: of the things that you cannot measure the makeup starts 553 00:28:59,078 --> 00:29:01,558 Speaker 1: to turn you off, where he starts sliding down, or 554 00:29:01,918 --> 00:29:04,358 Speaker 1: he just simply wouldn't touch a player even though the 555 00:29:04,438 --> 00:29:07,638 Speaker 1: talent on paper looks like you should be taking him. 556 00:29:08,438 --> 00:29:11,558 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's you know, yeah, it's it's this 557 00:29:11,838 --> 00:29:14,358 Speaker 3: vast amount of information And what do we do with it? 558 00:29:14,438 --> 00:29:17,358 Speaker 3: I mean, if we give you know, vision tests or 559 00:29:17,398 --> 00:29:19,878 Speaker 3: psych tests, is that you know, like any sort of 560 00:29:20,598 --> 00:29:22,918 Speaker 3: or even look at stats a strikeout raid? Is that 561 00:29:22,998 --> 00:29:25,638 Speaker 3: a finding tool or an elimination tool? What is this 562 00:29:25,758 --> 00:29:29,518 Speaker 3: information doing for us? And you know, some of that 563 00:29:29,638 --> 00:29:32,958 Speaker 3: stuff might eliminate guys. It's guys that we just don't 564 00:29:33,038 --> 00:29:34,718 Speaker 3: think are going to fit what we're trying to do. 565 00:29:34,798 --> 00:29:37,558 Speaker 3: I'm not sure that it like helps us find guys. 566 00:29:37,598 --> 00:29:40,438 Speaker 3: And like a lot of things, there's a big middle 567 00:29:40,478 --> 00:29:41,998 Speaker 3: when you get to makeup. I mean, a lot of 568 00:29:42,038 --> 00:29:45,638 Speaker 3: guys are fine. I mean I always sort of say, 569 00:29:47,078 --> 00:29:49,398 Speaker 3: you know, the elite makeup is like a guy who 570 00:29:49,598 --> 00:29:51,238 Speaker 3: is absolutely going to get the most out of what 571 00:29:51,318 --> 00:29:53,918 Speaker 3: he's got and he's going to elevate the environment he's in. 572 00:29:55,598 --> 00:29:58,158 Speaker 3: The sort of below average makeup is going to fall 573 00:29:58,198 --> 00:30:00,678 Speaker 3: short and sort of deflate the environment he's in. So 574 00:30:00,678 --> 00:30:02,838 Speaker 3: we want to stay away from those types of guys 575 00:30:02,998 --> 00:30:06,158 Speaker 3: and and having a feel for that. Now, again, there's 576 00:30:06,198 --> 00:30:08,598 Speaker 3: a lot of detail, I mean kind of the mindset, 577 00:30:08,678 --> 00:30:14,918 Speaker 3: the openness, how they learn their backstory with their personal life. 578 00:30:15,238 --> 00:30:17,638 Speaker 3: So it's not always easy, but we kind of want 579 00:30:17,638 --> 00:30:20,758 Speaker 3: to know the person before we make the selection. 580 00:30:21,798 --> 00:30:22,318 Speaker 2: Very cool. 581 00:30:22,438 --> 00:30:24,638 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and we get back. 582 00:30:25,478 --> 00:30:27,838 Speaker 1: I want to ask Josh if he has a favorite story. 583 00:30:27,918 --> 00:30:31,478 Speaker 1: There's so many stories that scouts and scouting directors are 584 00:30:31,798 --> 00:30:34,038 Speaker 1: privy to over the years. Is there a favorite that 585 00:30:34,118 --> 00:30:35,878 Speaker 1: stands out in his years in baseball? 586 00:30:35,918 --> 00:30:47,478 Speaker 2: We'll be back right after this. Welcome back to the 587 00:30:47,478 --> 00:30:48,638 Speaker 2: Book of Joe podcast. 588 00:30:48,798 --> 00:30:52,718 Speaker 1: Our guest is Josh Burns, Senior VP of Baseball Operations 589 00:30:52,718 --> 00:30:55,238 Speaker 1: for the Dodgers, and Josh, going back to all your 590 00:30:55,318 --> 00:30:59,798 Speaker 1: years here in baseball, is there one player, one story 591 00:30:59,838 --> 00:31:03,758 Speaker 1: that stands out for you that gives you the most 592 00:31:03,918 --> 00:31:05,438 Speaker 1: I don't know, reward or pleasure. 593 00:31:06,118 --> 00:31:08,318 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's a good question. There's some great stories 594 00:31:08,358 --> 00:31:11,758 Speaker 3: along the way. I'll give you a rapid fire on 595 00:31:11,798 --> 00:31:16,238 Speaker 3: a few. I mean, one is certainly Dustin Pedroia. You know, 596 00:31:16,398 --> 00:31:22,438 Speaker 3: he you know, too small, can't run, can't throw, so 597 00:31:24,078 --> 00:31:26,558 Speaker 3: and and and Joe. Obviously it's been a lot of 598 00:31:26,678 --> 00:31:28,598 Speaker 3: I mean it was it was good hitting in Packard 599 00:31:28,638 --> 00:31:31,918 Speaker 3: Stadium at ASU, so you know, I was kind of 600 00:31:32,198 --> 00:31:34,598 Speaker 3: asking our guys. I was obviously in Boston at the time, 601 00:31:34,718 --> 00:31:36,638 Speaker 3: can I let's just try to line up I'd like 602 00:31:36,718 --> 00:31:38,478 Speaker 3: to see him on the road against the best arm 603 00:31:38,518 --> 00:31:41,358 Speaker 3: he's gonna face. So we go into Wichita, He's gonna 604 00:31:41,358 --> 00:31:46,198 Speaker 3: face Mike Pelfrey, who's a sophomore, and Pelfrey's, you know, 605 00:31:46,438 --> 00:31:49,998 Speaker 3: top of the first is gonna lead off, and Pelfrey's 606 00:31:50,198 --> 00:31:53,478 Speaker 3: throwing ninety seven to ninety nine warming up. So okay, 607 00:31:53,518 --> 00:31:55,518 Speaker 3: here's a good test. First pitch of the game, hits 608 00:31:55,518 --> 00:31:59,998 Speaker 3: it off the scoreboards, and obviously Dustin he kind of 609 00:32:00,038 --> 00:32:02,518 Speaker 3: never stopped. And and but you know it's interesting. I 610 00:32:02,558 --> 00:32:07,678 Speaker 3: mean I actually a few years ago went to his house. 611 00:32:07,758 --> 00:32:09,398 Speaker 3: We had, you know, at the time in the folly, 612 00:32:09,478 --> 00:32:12,278 Speaker 3: we had Cody Bellinger and alex Erdugo and Willie Calhoun, 613 00:32:12,358 --> 00:32:14,918 Speaker 3: and I actually wanted Willy Calhoun to meet Dustin. So 614 00:32:15,878 --> 00:32:18,638 Speaker 3: we went over there and and it's like those those 615 00:32:19,198 --> 00:32:22,078 Speaker 3: that night in Wichita was very vivid for him. Oh yeah, 616 00:32:22,118 --> 00:32:27,198 Speaker 3: I remember that. And uh so fast forward to la days. 617 00:32:27,238 --> 00:32:29,158 Speaker 3: I think Gavin Lucks was a good you know, it's 618 00:32:29,238 --> 00:32:32,198 Speaker 3: it's hard to scout the cold weather high school guys, 619 00:32:32,238 --> 00:32:35,718 Speaker 3: and probably the you know, part of the Mic Trout story, 620 00:32:35,718 --> 00:32:37,598 Speaker 3: how in the world did he fall to where he 621 00:32:37,638 --> 00:32:40,518 Speaker 3: fell is just trying to evaluate him against cold weather 622 00:32:40,678 --> 00:32:43,398 Speaker 3: high school players. And so, you know, Gavin Lucks is 623 00:32:43,438 --> 00:32:47,758 Speaker 3: from Wisconsin and soggy field, cold wet day, you know, 624 00:32:48,478 --> 00:32:51,558 Speaker 3: just not a great environment. So I and I knew 625 00:32:51,638 --> 00:32:53,598 Speaker 3: this was open to us. I asked his dad, I said, hey, 626 00:32:53,638 --> 00:32:55,358 Speaker 3: can he work out for us after the game? So 627 00:32:55,558 --> 00:32:58,278 Speaker 3: sure it was his uncle, who was a number two 628 00:32:58,278 --> 00:33:01,158 Speaker 3: pick in the draft back in the day, was coaching 629 00:33:01,158 --> 00:33:03,638 Speaker 3: at Carthage College. So the game's over, we drive down 630 00:33:03,638 --> 00:33:05,958 Speaker 3: the road to the college. It's a nice turf field. 631 00:33:07,038 --> 00:33:10,358 Speaker 3: It's nighttime on a spring night in Wisconsin. The fog 632 00:33:10,438 --> 00:33:13,998 Speaker 3: rolls in and so it's really just me and Gavin, 633 00:33:14,038 --> 00:33:19,398 Speaker 3: his dad and his uncle and seventy five pound teenage 634 00:33:19,438 --> 00:33:22,238 Speaker 3: Gavin Locks would bet the whole deal, but it's so foggy, 635 00:33:22,358 --> 00:33:23,998 Speaker 3: like he's hitting balls and we're kind of like, did 636 00:33:23,998 --> 00:33:26,598 Speaker 3: that go out? I don't know, it sounded good, and 637 00:33:27,118 --> 00:33:28,878 Speaker 3: you know, it's just hard to really gauge, like they're 638 00:33:28,918 --> 00:33:29,958 Speaker 3: all power in the fog. 639 00:33:30,638 --> 00:33:34,158 Speaker 4: I mean, the scouting stories more wonderful. Even in the book, 640 00:33:34,158 --> 00:33:37,198 Speaker 4: I have went about scouting Danny Jackson and burning a 641 00:33:37,278 --> 00:33:40,078 Speaker 4: field and Trinidad Colorado's to make sure I could see 642 00:33:40,118 --> 00:33:42,358 Speaker 4: him because I knew Larry Hymes was not going to 643 00:33:42,398 --> 00:33:43,798 Speaker 4: be happy with me if I didn't get a chance 644 00:33:43,798 --> 00:33:45,318 Speaker 4: to see him in the last game of the year. 645 00:33:45,958 --> 00:33:47,878 Speaker 4: But that's that's what scouts do, man. You do whatever 646 00:33:47,918 --> 00:33:51,198 Speaker 4: it takes. You go to all these different outposts, and 647 00:33:51,238 --> 00:33:53,918 Speaker 4: this is where you find people like this. I love 648 00:33:53,958 --> 00:33:57,998 Speaker 4: that Pedroia. I mean like it's like it's not unlike 649 00:33:57,998 --> 00:34:00,118 Speaker 4: a David Eckstein, I mean, a different player, but same 650 00:34:01,358 --> 00:34:04,998 Speaker 4: guys like that. You take their outliers, absolutely outliers or not. 651 00:34:05,038 --> 00:34:08,118 Speaker 4: They don't fall within the five tool category obviously, but 652 00:34:08,198 --> 00:34:10,078 Speaker 4: eventually they just know how to win. And that's another 653 00:34:10,078 --> 00:34:14,558 Speaker 4: thing about scouting winners. I mean Who's who's a winner here, 654 00:34:14,598 --> 00:34:17,078 Speaker 4: Who's the guy that's not going to be denied, Who's 655 00:34:17,118 --> 00:34:20,558 Speaker 4: the guy that's gonna always be there in critical moments, 656 00:34:20,558 --> 00:34:22,398 Speaker 4: Who's the guy that's going to lead in a bad 657 00:34:22,438 --> 00:34:25,558 Speaker 4: moment in the clubhouse. All these things are so vital 658 00:34:25,758 --> 00:34:28,878 Speaker 4: for a team to be as successful consistently. I say 659 00:34:28,878 --> 00:34:30,918 Speaker 4: the Dodgers are. I mean, you know, Andrew and I 660 00:34:30,918 --> 00:34:33,398 Speaker 4: are good friends. I know what Andrew does there specifically too, 661 00:34:33,878 --> 00:34:35,838 Speaker 4: and all these things have to be considered, and I 662 00:34:36,398 --> 00:34:37,838 Speaker 4: think you guys do a great job with that. I 663 00:34:37,918 --> 00:34:40,838 Speaker 4: watch obviously, and you bring up all these guys with 664 00:34:40,958 --> 00:34:43,878 Speaker 4: names that nobody's ever heard of, and they're all primarily 665 00:34:43,878 --> 00:34:45,958 Speaker 4: consonants with no vows in their last name, and they're 666 00:34:45,958 --> 00:34:48,598 Speaker 4: really good baseball players. And I love that about what 667 00:34:48,638 --> 00:34:50,198 Speaker 4: you guys have done in the recent past. 668 00:34:51,078 --> 00:34:52,518 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a lot of fun. I mean, we 669 00:34:52,958 --> 00:34:55,238 Speaker 3: continue and it's it's, you know, it kind of builds 670 00:34:55,278 --> 00:35:00,038 Speaker 3: on himself. It's funny. Even the COVID Draft with five rounds, 671 00:35:00,598 --> 00:35:02,598 Speaker 3: there was a gap in time where we didn't know, 672 00:35:03,558 --> 00:35:06,518 Speaker 3: you know, how of bonus money MLB would allow teams 673 00:35:06,558 --> 00:35:08,878 Speaker 3: to spend. Let's say, you guys undrafted in five rounds 674 00:35:08,918 --> 00:35:12,158 Speaker 3: of one hundred thousand to offer to guys who are undrafted. 675 00:35:12,198 --> 00:35:15,518 Speaker 3: So we're the time, we're prepping a lot of our 676 00:35:15,558 --> 00:35:18,838 Speaker 3: success stories from the sixth round down. We made a 677 00:35:18,878 --> 00:35:23,358 Speaker 3: little video, so we figured to be old school recruiting, like, Okay, 678 00:35:23,438 --> 00:35:26,718 Speaker 3: we're undrafted and we can offer one hundred thousand, and 679 00:35:26,798 --> 00:35:29,118 Speaker 3: here's sort of our testimony, Like we take a lot 680 00:35:29,118 --> 00:35:32,158 Speaker 3: of pride in finding guys after the fifth round, and 681 00:35:32,198 --> 00:35:34,518 Speaker 3: in this particular year, it might have been a lot 682 00:35:34,518 --> 00:35:36,358 Speaker 3: of guys who were out there as free agents, and 683 00:35:37,438 --> 00:35:39,878 Speaker 3: you know, so it's it's it's something we've always taken 684 00:35:39,918 --> 00:35:41,198 Speaker 3: a lot of pride, and now we have a lot 685 00:35:41,238 --> 00:35:43,718 Speaker 3: of success to point to, and it's you know, it's 686 00:35:44,278 --> 00:35:48,078 Speaker 3: and it permeates the organization. I mean, there's no once 687 00:35:48,118 --> 00:35:52,558 Speaker 3: you're in it. It's a meritocracy, and you know it's 688 00:35:52,958 --> 00:35:54,278 Speaker 3: I mean it was good the other night. You know, 689 00:35:54,318 --> 00:35:56,038 Speaker 3: it just feeds on it stuff. Like I said, I 690 00:35:56,038 --> 00:35:58,518 Speaker 3: was in Tulsa. So we're having a staffed interupter a 691 00:35:58,598 --> 00:36:01,398 Speaker 3: day game and on the TV, Johnny to Luca and 692 00:36:01,478 --> 00:36:04,758 Speaker 3: Nick Robertson they were both low picks in their debut 693 00:36:04,838 --> 00:36:07,598 Speaker 3: and you know, obviously that's a feel good moment. We 694 00:36:07,718 --> 00:36:10,398 Speaker 3: take a lot of pride and those guys getting through, 695 00:36:10,478 --> 00:36:12,998 Speaker 3: and we're pretty excited to watch them in a major 696 00:36:13,078 --> 00:36:13,518 Speaker 3: league game. 697 00:36:14,398 --> 00:36:18,038 Speaker 4: That's when thing when scouts, when you signed somebody my god, 698 00:36:18,118 --> 00:36:22,438 Speaker 4: or you attached to that player, and you're constantly even 699 00:36:22,478 --> 00:36:25,118 Speaker 4: as a young manager, was also at scouts, so I'm 700 00:36:25,118 --> 00:36:28,158 Speaker 4: always looking at my guys that night. And then eventually 701 00:36:28,158 --> 00:36:30,318 Speaker 4: these guys work their way through the system and they 702 00:36:30,318 --> 00:36:32,958 Speaker 4: become major league players, and there are guys that you 703 00:36:33,038 --> 00:36:36,278 Speaker 4: had scouted. It's pretty significant to that man that scout. 704 00:36:37,958 --> 00:36:40,638 Speaker 4: They they they pretty much live and die by that 705 00:36:40,678 --> 00:36:43,598 Speaker 4: whole moment right there, and they spend so much time 706 00:36:43,678 --> 00:36:47,678 Speaker 4: and there's so much emotion invested in that particular player, 707 00:36:47,718 --> 00:36:50,278 Speaker 4: So I believe it. It's very identifiable to me, man, 708 00:36:50,318 --> 00:36:53,998 Speaker 4: it's all of that. I love scouts. I love the 709 00:36:54,038 --> 00:36:58,318 Speaker 4: scouting profession. I was raised by these guys, and so 710 00:36:58,518 --> 00:37:00,598 Speaker 4: I totally understand what you're talking about. And I think 711 00:37:00,598 --> 00:37:03,878 Speaker 4: it's great. And I love the idea of, you know, 712 00:37:04,558 --> 00:37:09,318 Speaker 4: primarily like really prehistoric scouting where he just went out 713 00:37:09,358 --> 00:37:11,838 Speaker 4: after a certain number of rounds in the COVID year 714 00:37:12,278 --> 00:37:15,358 Speaker 4: and you really apply like general scouting principles too, and 715 00:37:15,438 --> 00:37:17,838 Speaker 4: all of a sudden you find some pay dirt. Man, 716 00:37:17,838 --> 00:37:18,718 Speaker 4: that's pretty awesome. 717 00:37:19,318 --> 00:37:21,638 Speaker 2: And Josh, you mentioned that COVID draft there. 718 00:37:21,838 --> 00:37:23,958 Speaker 1: I mean, we're watching Bobby Miller out in the mound 719 00:37:23,958 --> 00:37:26,678 Speaker 1: here dominate in his first few starts in the big leagues, 720 00:37:26,798 --> 00:37:30,358 Speaker 1: touching one hundred miles an hour with the fastball. There's 721 00:37:30,398 --> 00:37:32,398 Speaker 1: got to be a story there with Miller in that 722 00:37:32,438 --> 00:37:35,758 Speaker 1: COVID year where the college baseball season was truncated. 723 00:37:36,078 --> 00:37:39,398 Speaker 3: Yeah. I you know, I think, like a lot of teams, 724 00:37:39,438 --> 00:37:41,238 Speaker 3: I don't know they're going in. I mean, we don't 725 00:37:41,998 --> 00:37:44,238 Speaker 3: rank them by round, but we sort of soft ranked them. 726 00:37:44,438 --> 00:37:46,998 Speaker 3: I don't know that he was maybe preseason or going 727 00:37:47,038 --> 00:37:49,958 Speaker 3: in top forty, top fifty, but probably the next group. 728 00:37:50,118 --> 00:37:53,798 Speaker 3: And you know, so we had the fourth starts, we 729 00:37:53,918 --> 00:37:56,598 Speaker 3: clearly saw things we liked, and then you know, the 730 00:37:56,638 --> 00:37:59,398 Speaker 3: world stops. So we watched those starts over and over 731 00:37:59,438 --> 00:38:02,478 Speaker 3: again on video. I think the last one was at 732 00:38:02,478 --> 00:38:05,398 Speaker 3: Wake Forest against Patrick Shooters. It was a good matchup 733 00:38:05,438 --> 00:38:08,798 Speaker 3: for those two guys. But we're watching the same four 734 00:38:08,838 --> 00:38:11,758 Speaker 3: starts over and over again, and I think the knocks 735 00:38:11,758 --> 00:38:14,038 Speaker 3: on Bob, I mean he wasn't a dominant performer in college. 736 00:38:14,038 --> 00:38:16,118 Speaker 3: He had a great arm he's probably ninety five ninety 737 00:38:16,158 --> 00:38:20,078 Speaker 3: seven some length to his arm action, and the repertoire 738 00:38:20,158 --> 00:38:25,158 Speaker 3: wasn't fully developed. But even talking to our pitching guys, 739 00:38:25,878 --> 00:38:29,558 Speaker 3: you know, we felt like we could actually like help 740 00:38:29,558 --> 00:38:31,918 Speaker 3: with the arm action, which is something you didn't believe 741 00:38:32,038 --> 00:38:36,598 Speaker 3: maybe five years ago, twenty years ago. And we also knew, 742 00:38:38,398 --> 00:38:40,638 Speaker 3: you know, with COVID, Like you know, Bobby had four 743 00:38:40,718 --> 00:38:43,518 Speaker 3: college starts and now he's in our Groundhog Day camp 744 00:38:43,558 --> 00:38:49,118 Speaker 3: at USC in the COVID scenario. So he's facing you know, 745 00:38:49,198 --> 00:38:52,158 Speaker 3: Caterer Luiz and Luke Raley and Gavin Lux and like 746 00:38:52,158 --> 00:38:56,878 Speaker 3: like experienced upper level hitters every day and kind of 747 00:38:56,878 --> 00:39:01,118 Speaker 3: getting his brains beat in and but he's learning, he's watching, 748 00:39:01,198 --> 00:39:03,198 Speaker 3: and you know, he's only had four starts, so his 749 00:39:03,278 --> 00:39:05,118 Speaker 3: arm's fine. You can pitch all summer and go to 750 00:39:05,198 --> 00:39:08,318 Speaker 3: instructional league. But we were able to change his arm 751 00:39:08,318 --> 00:39:13,478 Speaker 3: action almost immediately, and then over time, you know, he's 752 00:39:13,518 --> 00:39:17,038 Speaker 3: even thrown harder obviously, probably averages ninety eight ninety nine, 753 00:39:16,918 --> 00:39:19,918 Speaker 3: one hundred, but it's it's learning and it's hard. In 754 00:39:19,958 --> 00:39:23,038 Speaker 3: the minors, we went through with with Arias and Bueller 755 00:39:23,078 --> 00:39:26,158 Speaker 3: and all, you know, not this sort of like I 756 00:39:26,158 --> 00:39:28,878 Speaker 3: always say, like pitching Ninja Twitter kill Shot. We're trying 757 00:39:28,878 --> 00:39:30,918 Speaker 3: to build pitchers and we're trying to record out and 758 00:39:31,278 --> 00:39:35,278 Speaker 3: especially for the guys that can start, and Bobby has 759 00:39:35,318 --> 00:39:38,438 Speaker 3: a really deep mix. Obviously he's known for his velocity, 760 00:39:38,518 --> 00:39:42,998 Speaker 3: but really learning how to affect the in and out, 761 00:39:43,078 --> 00:39:50,318 Speaker 3: updown game and front back too, and and learning how 762 00:39:50,318 --> 00:39:52,278 Speaker 3: to be efficient and get out as quickly when you 763 00:39:52,358 --> 00:39:55,238 Speaker 3: need to. So it's it's you know, you can't always 764 00:39:55,318 --> 00:39:57,798 Speaker 3: complete that in the minors. I mean, Bobby has gone 765 00:39:57,798 --> 00:40:00,478 Speaker 3: to the major leagues and probably thrown the best I 766 00:40:00,518 --> 00:40:03,038 Speaker 3: mean kind of the version we all believed was in there, 767 00:40:03,678 --> 00:40:06,878 Speaker 3: and and you know he's sort of like gone right 768 00:40:06,918 --> 00:40:09,478 Speaker 3: to it in his first four starts. I in the 769 00:40:09,518 --> 00:40:13,678 Speaker 3: talent levels extraordinary, but putting it together and the guy 770 00:40:13,678 --> 00:40:15,278 Speaker 3: who can go through a major league lineup a few 771 00:40:15,278 --> 00:40:18,558 Speaker 3: times is very difficult. But Bobby, you know, has really 772 00:40:18,598 --> 00:40:20,318 Speaker 3: stepped up to the challenge of being a big league 773 00:40:20,318 --> 00:40:22,158 Speaker 3: pitcher and our team needs it. 774 00:40:22,318 --> 00:40:23,038 Speaker 2: Great stuff. 775 00:40:23,238 --> 00:40:25,998 Speaker 1: Hey, Josh, I got one more job for you. It's 776 00:40:25,998 --> 00:40:28,878 Speaker 1: not a scouting assignment, but it's an easy one. We 777 00:40:28,918 --> 00:40:32,798 Speaker 1: call this segment a reading from the Book of Joe, 778 00:40:34,038 --> 00:40:36,438 Speaker 1: where you get to pick a number, any number between 779 00:40:36,478 --> 00:40:38,558 Speaker 1: one and three sixty eight, and we'll turn to that 780 00:40:38,638 --> 00:40:41,638 Speaker 1: page in our book and we'll see what it brings us, 781 00:40:41,638 --> 00:40:44,038 Speaker 1: because we feel like no matter where you crack it open, 782 00:40:44,158 --> 00:40:45,998 Speaker 1: you'll find something interesting or surprising. 783 00:40:46,318 --> 00:40:48,718 Speaker 2: So it's your choice, Josh Burns, I. 784 00:40:48,638 --> 00:40:50,438 Speaker 3: Feel like you probably don't get many guesses in the 785 00:40:50,518 --> 00:40:52,918 Speaker 3: in the over one hundred multi worth thinking of a 786 00:40:52,918 --> 00:40:55,718 Speaker 3: player or a uniform number. So but I'll go with that. 787 00:40:55,998 --> 00:40:59,718 Speaker 3: I think we take great pride in the number forty two, 788 00:41:00,038 --> 00:41:03,478 Speaker 3: and it's the name of our platform, obviously, after the 789 00:41:03,478 --> 00:41:06,238 Speaker 3: great Packi Robinson. So I'll go with forty two. 790 00:41:06,838 --> 00:41:09,998 Speaker 1: I love that forty two and sure enough it has 791 00:41:10,038 --> 00:41:12,518 Speaker 1: something to do with scouting Joe, of course it does. 792 00:41:12,838 --> 00:41:18,558 Speaker 1: This is this is you mentioned the great Larry Hymes. Yeah, yeah, 793 00:41:18,678 --> 00:41:22,118 Speaker 1: this is going back to nineteen eighty one where Larry 794 00:41:22,198 --> 00:41:23,918 Speaker 1: Hymes has offered you a job. 795 00:41:24,478 --> 00:41:25,478 Speaker 2: At the turn of the new year. 796 00:41:25,518 --> 00:41:28,158 Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty one, Madden was doing Anaheim to meet 797 00:41:28,158 --> 00:41:31,878 Speaker 1: with Hymes about his new job. No way, the sixty 798 00:41:31,958 --> 00:41:34,358 Speaker 1: nine Vava was going to make it from Boulder to 799 00:41:34,398 --> 00:41:39,278 Speaker 1: Anaheim Joe's in Boulder, Colorado at the time. At the time, Chrysler, 800 00:41:39,358 --> 00:41:42,398 Speaker 1: under the restructuring of Leiah Coca and in the thick 801 00:41:42,478 --> 00:41:46,558 Speaker 1: of a recession, was practically giving away cars no money down, 802 00:41:46,918 --> 00:41:51,158 Speaker 1: minimal payments. Madden walked into a Chrysler dealership, did not 803 00:41:51,198 --> 00:41:53,878 Speaker 1: put a penny down, and drove off in a new 804 00:41:53,918 --> 00:41:57,638 Speaker 1: Plymouth TC three. Correct, he had He had a little 805 00:41:57,638 --> 00:42:00,958 Speaker 1: more than one hundred dollars in his pocket, his entire 806 00:42:01,118 --> 00:42:04,558 Speaker 1: nest egg no credit card. I'm sure sure my parents 807 00:42:04,558 --> 00:42:07,198 Speaker 1: were paying for the insurance. They probably had to co 808 00:42:07,318 --> 00:42:09,758 Speaker 1: sign for me at the time, he says. So I 809 00:42:09,798 --> 00:42:14,318 Speaker 1: head west going through the Rockies, Joe, I mean, what 810 00:42:14,398 --> 00:42:18,118 Speaker 1: was that like for you? You get hired by Larry him. 811 00:42:18,278 --> 00:42:20,398 Speaker 1: You're not even sure what the job is at that point? 812 00:42:20,478 --> 00:42:21,838 Speaker 2: Correct, No, I didn't. 813 00:42:21,838 --> 00:42:23,398 Speaker 4: I didn't know where it was going yet. I didn't. 814 00:42:23,558 --> 00:42:25,758 Speaker 1: You just knew it was a job in baseball, right, 815 00:42:26,558 --> 00:42:29,518 Speaker 1: you were didn't think twice about taking it and getting 816 00:42:29,598 --> 00:42:31,318 Speaker 1: there was half the fun. 817 00:42:31,358 --> 00:42:33,998 Speaker 4: I guess you would think that's hyperbole, right, It was 818 00:42:34,038 --> 00:42:36,798 Speaker 4: like a hundred bucks. It was a New TC three 819 00:42:36,878 --> 00:42:40,798 Speaker 4: green four speed. I think on the floor and I 820 00:42:40,838 --> 00:42:43,878 Speaker 4: start driving through Colorado was at seventy and then you 821 00:42:43,918 --> 00:42:47,078 Speaker 4: get to the other side chunction. Either go right, go 822 00:42:47,158 --> 00:42:50,078 Speaker 4: up to Reno, et cetera, go left down through Vegas. 823 00:42:50,158 --> 00:42:53,438 Speaker 4: I went right. I went up around that bend there 824 00:42:53,638 --> 00:42:56,558 Speaker 4: and eventually made my way down to Anaheim. When I did, 825 00:42:56,718 --> 00:42:59,478 Speaker 4: Larry was not certain if I was going to scout 826 00:43:00,438 --> 00:43:02,918 Speaker 4: in southern California, like say, from the six oh five 827 00:43:02,998 --> 00:43:05,878 Speaker 4: North or whatever, or to Semi to Arizona. He chose 828 00:43:05,918 --> 00:43:07,958 Speaker 4: to Semi to Arizona. It's like, oh, there, and we've 829 00:43:07,958 --> 00:43:10,278 Speaker 4: talked about one hundred bucks. It was less than that 830 00:43:10,318 --> 00:43:14,918 Speaker 4: by then. My first check was probably worth five hundred 831 00:43:14,958 --> 00:43:17,478 Speaker 4: bucks or something like that for two weeks and you guys, 832 00:43:17,558 --> 00:43:20,118 Speaker 4: I got the Arizona and Luke Conower breaks me. But 833 00:43:20,478 --> 00:43:22,478 Speaker 4: I mean, stuff like that just doesn't happen anymore. But 834 00:43:22,518 --> 00:43:26,198 Speaker 4: I'm so grateful it did. You have to become creative 835 00:43:26,518 --> 00:43:31,398 Speaker 4: regarding how to make ends meet. You're definitely passionate about 836 00:43:31,398 --> 00:43:33,358 Speaker 4: what you're doing. There was only one thing that mattered 837 00:43:33,598 --> 00:43:35,638 Speaker 4: that had this job, and then how do I How 838 00:43:35,678 --> 00:43:38,158 Speaker 4: do I do this job well? And I did. I 839 00:43:38,198 --> 00:43:42,198 Speaker 4: scouted four states and because of Jimmy Driscoll, who was 840 00:43:42,198 --> 00:43:44,718 Speaker 4: scouting for Baltimore, had a credit card, and I just 841 00:43:44,798 --> 00:43:49,478 Speaker 4: rode with Jimmy thro through Arizona, Colorado, Utah, and New Mexico. 842 00:43:49,478 --> 00:43:51,318 Speaker 4: And that's that's how I completed my first year of 843 00:43:51,358 --> 00:43:54,558 Speaker 4: Scotty because of Jimmy. Yeah, would not change a thing 844 00:43:54,598 --> 00:43:58,118 Speaker 4: for it, but that's exactly how it came down. And 845 00:43:58,158 --> 00:44:00,358 Speaker 4: I'm eternally grateful that I had that opportunity. 846 00:44:00,958 --> 00:44:02,518 Speaker 3: And how long did that car last? 847 00:44:04,438 --> 00:44:06,558 Speaker 4: The car lasted a couple of years, and then I 848 00:44:06,798 --> 00:44:10,118 Speaker 4: stupidly traded it in on an Audie Fox station Wagon 849 00:44:10,358 --> 00:44:13,718 Speaker 4: because I thought it looked cool, and that engine seized me. 850 00:44:13,838 --> 00:44:17,038 Speaker 4: Driving from Tucson back to Phoenix after a night game, 851 00:44:18,398 --> 00:44:21,838 Speaker 4: you of a the piston went through the engine block 852 00:44:22,358 --> 00:44:25,958 Speaker 4: halfway between like a piccacho peak area and had to 853 00:44:25,958 --> 00:44:27,678 Speaker 4: get it towed in. And Joe Sparks, who was a 854 00:44:27,918 --> 00:44:31,878 Speaker 4: minor league manager at that time. Greg Sparks's son Sparky, 855 00:44:31,958 --> 00:44:36,598 Speaker 4: was working at a car dealership in Phoenix. Sparky hooked 856 00:44:36,598 --> 00:44:39,078 Speaker 4: me up with the seventy e nine Capriest Classic and 857 00:44:39,118 --> 00:44:40,038 Speaker 4: the rest was history. 858 00:44:40,358 --> 00:44:42,918 Speaker 2: There's probably a scouting lesson in there somewhere. You fell 859 00:44:42,958 --> 00:44:43,358 Speaker 2: in with. 860 00:44:43,518 --> 00:44:45,078 Speaker 4: Yeah, don't trade into TC three. 861 00:44:45,158 --> 00:44:47,678 Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, stick with the old reliable. 862 00:44:48,158 --> 00:44:51,478 Speaker 1: But you know what's interesting, Joe, Larry Hines obviously saw 863 00:44:51,518 --> 00:44:54,598 Speaker 1: something in you, right, there was some spark, there was 864 00:44:54,638 --> 00:44:58,918 Speaker 1: some passion, there was knowledge intellect about the game of baseball. 865 00:44:59,478 --> 00:45:01,878 Speaker 1: And I'm wondering, in your job, Josh, do you see 866 00:45:01,918 --> 00:45:05,318 Speaker 1: that in some players whose career are starting to wind 867 00:45:05,398 --> 00:45:10,158 Speaker 1: down and you'll approach them about continuing in baseball but 868 00:45:10,478 --> 00:45:12,038 Speaker 1: in a different capacity than playing. 869 00:45:12,398 --> 00:45:14,958 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I know, I've you know, there's been a 870 00:45:14,958 --> 00:45:17,718 Speaker 3: few I mean kind of as I mean as as 871 00:45:17,798 --> 00:45:21,318 Speaker 3: active players, from Jerry Depoto to A J. Hinch to 872 00:45:21,358 --> 00:45:23,118 Speaker 3: Mark Pryor. I mean, there are a lot of guys 873 00:45:23,158 --> 00:45:25,958 Speaker 3: who as you get to that, hey, if you thought 874 00:45:25,958 --> 00:45:30,198 Speaker 3: about what's next, and you know, even you know in 875 00:45:30,278 --> 00:45:34,158 Speaker 3: tall Tyson Ross, who we just hired, you know he 876 00:45:34,198 --> 00:45:37,278 Speaker 3: was he was with us in Tulsa, and and you know, 877 00:45:37,318 --> 00:45:39,798 Speaker 3: there are a lot of guys who who offer that 878 00:45:39,878 --> 00:45:42,318 Speaker 3: wisdom and we have you know, Adrian Gonzalez was in 879 00:45:42,318 --> 00:45:45,518 Speaker 3: in Tulsa. So I think that's another neat thing we do, 880 00:45:46,558 --> 00:45:50,038 Speaker 3: that expertise from from ex players. I mean, Plusto Polanco, 881 00:45:50,278 --> 00:45:53,878 Speaker 3: Jamie Wright, uh down Tree, Willis helps. You know, we 882 00:45:53,918 --> 00:45:58,878 Speaker 3: have a lot of guys so that perspective Raoul o'banya 883 00:45:58,918 --> 00:46:03,358 Speaker 3: is when he was with us, it's invaluable and you know, 884 00:46:03,598 --> 00:46:05,518 Speaker 3: and and it all works hand in hand. I mean, 885 00:46:05,518 --> 00:46:08,998 Speaker 3: the you know, even adrianans Alls and Tyson Ross, I mean, 886 00:46:08,998 --> 00:46:10,878 Speaker 3: there's there's a lot they know, and there's a lot 887 00:46:10,918 --> 00:46:13,278 Speaker 3: that Okay, this is what's going on behind the curtain. 888 00:46:13,798 --> 00:46:15,358 Speaker 3: This is what we're trying to do with this group 889 00:46:15,358 --> 00:46:20,238 Speaker 3: of players. But there's always you know, nuggets, you know, 890 00:46:20,358 --> 00:46:23,518 Speaker 3: facing the high ride fastball, talking to our young hitters, 891 00:46:25,038 --> 00:46:26,798 Speaker 3: and I kind of, you know, said, look, Adrian and 892 00:46:26,798 --> 00:46:28,478 Speaker 3: I were talking about a dinner last night. Here are 893 00:46:28,478 --> 00:46:30,518 Speaker 3: some of his thoughts, like make sure you're picking his 894 00:46:30,558 --> 00:46:34,558 Speaker 3: brain and you know, and it's how it goes. I mean, 895 00:46:34,558 --> 00:46:36,718 Speaker 3: one of the relievers we face in that series got 896 00:46:36,718 --> 00:46:39,158 Speaker 3: called to the big league. So these guys know it's close. 897 00:46:39,198 --> 00:46:41,998 Speaker 3: They've got to like continue to grow and get better 898 00:46:42,078 --> 00:46:44,438 Speaker 3: and use all their resources. And some of that is 899 00:46:44,558 --> 00:46:47,078 Speaker 3: the modern stuff, and some of that is you know, 900 00:46:47,278 --> 00:46:51,838 Speaker 3: some of our coaches and next players who might offer 901 00:46:51,918 --> 00:46:53,838 Speaker 3: something that really clicks for a player. 902 00:46:53,998 --> 00:46:57,318 Speaker 1: The very cool stuff, Josh, I mean, it's been fascinating 903 00:46:57,398 --> 00:46:59,638 Speaker 1: talking with you, kind of pulling back the curtain a 904 00:46:59,718 --> 00:47:02,158 Speaker 1: little bit on I think to what a lot of 905 00:47:02,198 --> 00:47:04,998 Speaker 1: fans is sort of the mysterious business if they think 906 00:47:05,078 --> 00:47:09,518 Speaker 1: about it at all, in terms of identifying and developing players. 907 00:47:09,558 --> 00:47:11,198 Speaker 2: So thanks so much for your insight. 908 00:47:11,558 --> 00:47:13,398 Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me, guys. I really enjoyed it. 909 00:47:13,518 --> 00:47:15,678 Speaker 4: I appreciate it. Josh. Like I said, it's near and 910 00:47:15,718 --> 00:47:17,678 Speaker 4: dear to my heart. It's good to see you again. 911 00:47:17,718 --> 00:47:19,798 Speaker 4: Please pass on my best to Andrew. Good luck in 912 00:47:19,798 --> 00:47:20,518 Speaker 4: the draft, buddy. 913 00:47:20,718 --> 00:47:21,798 Speaker 3: Okay, thanks guys. 914 00:47:22,078 --> 00:47:23,718 Speaker 2: Well, Joe, that was a lot of fun. 915 00:47:24,078 --> 00:47:26,718 Speaker 1: I mean, especially in today's day and age, we have 916 00:47:26,878 --> 00:47:30,038 Speaker 1: so much technology. Sometimes you think people are getting scouted 917 00:47:30,398 --> 00:47:34,518 Speaker 1: just entirely off of metrics, right, and it's just good 918 00:47:34,558 --> 00:47:36,398 Speaker 1: to hear some of those tried and true methods. 919 00:47:36,838 --> 00:47:37,758 Speaker 2: Yeah, they still work. 920 00:47:37,998 --> 00:47:40,518 Speaker 4: Josh has a great background. He talked about the time 921 00:47:40,558 --> 00:47:43,838 Speaker 4: in Cleveland, and actually I was he was part of 922 00:47:43,878 --> 00:47:45,878 Speaker 4: an interview that I had for the Red Sox job. 923 00:47:46,278 --> 00:47:49,118 Speaker 4: Was that two thousand and three going into the two 924 00:47:49,158 --> 00:47:51,158 Speaker 4: thousand and four season. That's why I first got to 925 00:47:51,198 --> 00:47:54,318 Speaker 4: meet him. So, yeah, it was it's great to hear 926 00:47:54,358 --> 00:47:57,278 Speaker 4: that stuff and I'll say it again, man, Scouting to 927 00:47:57,318 --> 00:48:01,598 Speaker 4: me is where it's happening. I love that. I love 928 00:48:01,678 --> 00:48:04,438 Speaker 4: that part of the game, and I truly believe the 929 00:48:04,478 --> 00:48:06,678 Speaker 4: success that I've had in the game is really attributable 930 00:48:06,718 --> 00:48:09,158 Speaker 4: to the fact that I was raised by those scouts 931 00:48:09,238 --> 00:48:10,918 Speaker 4: in Arizona in nineteen eighty one. 932 00:48:11,078 --> 00:48:13,278 Speaker 1: Yes, and by the way, it was good seeing you 933 00:48:13,358 --> 00:48:17,158 Speaker 1: the other day at the Yogi Bera Museum outing at 934 00:48:17,198 --> 00:48:18,838 Speaker 1: Montclair Country Club in New Jersey. 935 00:48:18,878 --> 00:48:20,118 Speaker 2: How'd you like the chorus, Joe? 936 00:48:20,198 --> 00:48:22,598 Speaker 4: I think I survived it, But my god, I mean 937 00:48:22,638 --> 00:48:26,998 Speaker 4: it's a combination of wind and hills and elephant backs 938 00:48:27,158 --> 00:48:29,998 Speaker 4: on different greens. It was kind of interesting. 939 00:48:30,078 --> 00:48:33,118 Speaker 1: Yeah, I just like there's dinosaurs or elephants buried underneath 940 00:48:33,198 --> 00:48:34,638 Speaker 1: all those oh mons there. 941 00:48:34,718 --> 00:48:35,038 Speaker 4: Oh my. 942 00:48:35,238 --> 00:48:36,838 Speaker 2: I didn't see a flat put all day. 943 00:48:37,158 --> 00:48:40,998 Speaker 4: Everything was elevated. There was all plateaus everywhere. Great time though, 944 00:48:41,078 --> 00:48:44,598 Speaker 4: Lindsay was great. I hung out with Bucky Debt a 945 00:48:44,678 --> 00:48:46,838 Speaker 4: little bit. It was great to see Bucky again too. 946 00:48:47,318 --> 00:48:49,318 Speaker 2: Absolutely. I was always a lot of fun. 947 00:48:49,358 --> 00:48:51,358 Speaker 1: A lot of baseball people turn out for that event, 948 00:48:52,678 --> 00:48:54,518 Speaker 1: so you got something to take us home here. 949 00:48:54,718 --> 00:48:58,278 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's appropriate Based on number forty two from Josh 950 00:48:58,318 --> 00:49:00,838 Speaker 4: today again. Sometimes it just happens, and I went branch 951 00:49:00,878 --> 00:49:06,278 Speaker 4: Ricky and of course, mister Ricky Robinson and I love this. 952 00:49:06,358 --> 00:49:09,878 Speaker 4: It's very brief, but it cuts to the core. Never surrender, 953 00:49:10,038 --> 00:49:16,118 Speaker 4: opportunity for security, take chances, fortune favors the bold. Love 954 00:49:16,198 --> 00:49:19,758 Speaker 4: that stuff. That was so mister Rickey. I read. I 955 00:49:19,758 --> 00:49:23,278 Speaker 4: read a book years ago, The Ferocious Gentleman. Lee lowh 956 00:49:23,278 --> 00:49:26,278 Speaker 4: and Fish wrote it, and I became friends, and it's 957 00:49:26,318 --> 00:49:29,318 Speaker 4: such a great account of the life of branch Rickey. 958 00:49:30,998 --> 00:49:33,518 Speaker 4: So I became friends. I read this book. I was 959 00:49:33,518 --> 00:49:35,718 Speaker 4: always a Rickey fan. I'm just going to tell you, 960 00:49:35,758 --> 00:49:37,678 Speaker 4: if you want to really read a great book about 961 00:49:37,798 --> 00:49:42,958 Speaker 4: mister Ricky, Lee loh and Fish, The Ferocious Gentleman Outstanding, that's. 962 00:49:42,758 --> 00:49:43,798 Speaker 2: A great recommendation. 963 00:49:43,878 --> 00:49:46,718 Speaker 1: Branch Rickey was someone who was ahead of his time 964 00:49:47,158 --> 00:49:50,238 Speaker 1: in so many ways. A lot of lessons there you 965 00:49:50,278 --> 00:49:51,278 Speaker 1: can get from that book. 966 00:49:52,118 --> 00:49:53,438 Speaker 4: Here's mister scout John. 967 00:49:53,438 --> 00:49:55,638 Speaker 2: It's been a lot of fun. We'll see you next time. 968 00:49:55,558 --> 00:49:57,438 Speaker 4: All right, brother, Thanks a lot, buddy, you will. 969 00:50:03,918 --> 00:50:07,238 Speaker 1: Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. For 970 00:50:07,318 --> 00:50:12,158 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts 971 00:50:12,278 --> 00:50:14,038 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts