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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast. George nor with you,

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Speaker 2: Paul Deboli with us. Paul, a former Secret Service agent,

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Speaker 2: was twenty eight years old at the time of John F.

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Speaker 2: Kennedy's assassination. Was assigned to his wife, Jackie. Has written

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Speaker 2: a book called The Final Witness about things that he

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Speaker 2: witnessed and saw. He's not negating the Warren Commission's report,

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Speaker 2: even though a lot of us don't think it was accurate.

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Speaker 2: But what are your thoughts on Paul Landis.

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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I love the book, and I

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Speaker 3: do talk to mister Landis on occasion, you know, via email,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. And you know, I knew the book was

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Speaker 3: coming out, and I had pre ordered it and was

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Speaker 3: waiting to get it via tender the day that it

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Speaker 3: came out, and I wasn't disappointed. You know. He talks about,

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Speaker 3: you know, being on the first lead. He's detailed some

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Speaker 3: of the trips they were taking, and it's kind of

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Speaker 3: a way to set the stage for the to Dallas

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Speaker 3: on November twenty second, and you know, he describes, you know,

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Speaker 3: he was looking over his shoulder back into the right,

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Speaker 3: but then talks about when they got to Parkland Hospital.

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Speaker 3: And one of the things that always bothered me at

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Speaker 3: Parkland Hospital is that a lot of the news photographs

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Speaker 3: you saw our President Kennedy's limousine, you know, outside, they

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Speaker 3: were people cleaning up the blood, the blood stains and

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Speaker 3: and and and mess inside the colle and it was

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Speaker 3: evident a crime scene. That's a crime scene, you know.

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Speaker 3: And again these were trained officers, they had been through,

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Speaker 3: you know, something very similar to the FBI Academy. But

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Speaker 3: I think it was such an unexpected event that a

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Speaker 3: lot of people just kind of weren't firing on all

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Speaker 3: eight cylinders of the time. Excuse me, but he talked.

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Speaker 3: But there's one quote in the book that was just amazing.

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Speaker 3: When Missus Kennedy finally stood up, I looked again at

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Speaker 3: the seat and saw a bullet on top of the

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Speaker 3: tofted black leather cushioning behind where she had been sitting.

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Speaker 2: In pristine condition, too pristine condition.

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Speaker 3: And he then describes how he picked up the bullet,

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Speaker 3: put in his pocket and then said, Ohdn, what should

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Speaker 3: I do now, and then talks about placing it on

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Speaker 3: Kennedy's gurney right by his foot. Now this and you know,

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Speaker 3: and then again you know, transferring to the President's body, etc.

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Speaker 3: It ended up rolling onto another gurney in eventually right

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Speaker 3: the floor. And we all know the story of the

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Speaker 3: story about how the magic bullet was was was discovered

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Speaker 3: in a hallway at Corontland Hospital. But it immediately throws

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Speaker 3: all of the conclusions in the War and Commission report

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Speaker 3: into the sky, because if that's the magic bullet, then

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Speaker 3: there's no way that the magic bullet could have made

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Speaker 3: you know, the wounds in President Kennedy, the wounds and

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Speaker 3: Governor Connolly and then turned around, made a U turn

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Speaker 3: to depart as in itself on the back seat.

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Speaker 2: And be in a pristine shape. It would have been

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Speaker 2: all mangled up.

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Speaker 3: So then the question is who shot Governor Conley. And

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Speaker 3: in the book, Agent Randas talks about uh noticing the

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Speaker 3: crack and the hole in the front windshield just to

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Speaker 3: the left of the rearview mirror, and he always says

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Speaker 3: he was amazed that that that you know, that bullet

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Speaker 3: particles could have have flown towards the front of the

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Speaker 3: car without shooting anybody else because there were six occupants

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Speaker 3: of that vehicle was President Missus Kennedy, there was Governor

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Speaker 3: Missus Connolly, there was Roy Kelleman, and the driver Bill Gleir.

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Speaker 3: So you know, it was a very target rich environment.

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Speaker 3: So you know, the question then becomes who shot Governor Conley?

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Speaker 3: And you know, and we do know that Covernt Conley

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Speaker 3: was shot. So that so that means they had to

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Speaker 3: they at least a FOURT bullet fired.

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Speaker 2: At least and they only say three at this point,

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Speaker 2: at the very least.

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Speaker 3: You know, there was there was one bullet that that

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Speaker 3: that was obviously filed from from behind the mortar gate

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Speaker 3: and I'm not sure it came from the Texas school

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Speaker 3: Book Depository that impacted the sidewalk and then and then

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Speaker 3: cause the piece of the concrete on the sidewalk to

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Speaker 3: to come loose and strike a man named James Tige

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Speaker 3: in the face. So we know that that's that's one bullet.

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Speaker 3: Now we know there's a second. The second bullet that

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Speaker 3: had that hits Kennedy and could have hit Governor Carley. Okay,

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Speaker 3: but then where did this bullet come from? And then

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Speaker 3: the fatal bullet and then where did this bullet that

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Speaker 3: launched in the back of the seat behind Missus Kennedy

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Speaker 3: come from and be.

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Speaker 2: A shot from the flood with Paul Landers. Am I

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Speaker 2: correct that he still agrees with the Warren Commission's findings

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Speaker 2: or has he changed that?

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Speaker 3: Well, he never even read the Warren Commission report until

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Speaker 3: fairly recently, and basically he said, they you know, they've

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Speaker 3: got it all wrong, and you know, And I think

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Speaker 3: that's what prompted him to write the book to set

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Speaker 3: the registrate. But I also get the feeling from from

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Speaker 3: reading the book that he was a very very decent

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Speaker 3: man and he had this this secret about where that

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Speaker 3: bullet on the Journey came from, and he had to

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Speaker 3: let the world know how it got there.

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Speaker 2: Why didn't he just turn it into the Secret Service?

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Speaker 3: You know, we all react strangely under under pressure. The

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Speaker 3: training regimen back then wasn't anywhere near what the training

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Speaker 3: regimen is right now. I think that the Kennedys were

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Speaker 3: had very close personal relationships with a lot of people

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Speaker 3: in the Protective Detail, and I think I think he

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Speaker 3: was ashen.

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Speaker 2: He's in his late eighties. I think he is.

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Speaker 3: If he was twenty eight nineteen sixty three, that that

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Speaker 3: that you know, that puts some.

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Speaker 2: Eight years old.

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Speaker 3: He's eighty seven, eighty eight years old. And and you know,

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Speaker 3: as he started reading about he talked about someone giving

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Speaker 3: him a copy of seven or seven seconds in Dallas,

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Speaker 3: and he read it and then started to recall certain

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Speaker 3: things and and but I think he was sitting on

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Speaker 3: this for a number of years. And quite frankly, I

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Speaker 3: tried to get him to speak in my conspiracy class.

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Speaker 3: And I've had Clint Hill several times. He's a wonderful speaker.

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Speaker 3: But I literally chased Paul Landers for almost ten years

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Speaker 3: now before I finally got a return email. So I

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Speaker 3: think he was a very private man. I think he

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Speaker 3: was sitting on this information. I think he felt guilty.

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Speaker 3: I think he was torn as to whether or not

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Speaker 3: to come forward. And and I'm very glad he did

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Speaker 3: to clarify the historical record. Now there's a there's a

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Speaker 3: there's another bullet that's unaccounted for. That's going to feel speculation,

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Speaker 3: but a good deal of research for the next decade

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Speaker 3: to come. And I'm glad he wrote the book. He

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Speaker 3: did a wonderful job. And he talks about, you know,

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Speaker 3: even that day, what should he do with a bullet

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Speaker 3: you know, he picked up the bullet. He didn't want

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Speaker 3: it to be to disappear by souvenir hunters, and I

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Speaker 3: get that. And he tells an interesting story about a

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Speaker 3: Zippo lighter that was found in the backseat of the Limo,

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Speaker 3: which an aide to Missus Kennedy recently sold on eBay,

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Speaker 3: and it was actually Clint Clint Hill cigarette lighter. So

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Speaker 3: I think the danger of souvenir hunters or somebody picking

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Speaker 3: something up that they that they shouldn't have, you know,

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Speaker 3: in the confusion, was a very real concern for him,

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Speaker 3: and he was seeking to preserve the evidence.

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Speaker 2: Did they have sophisticated finger printing at that time?

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Speaker 3: They did have They did. They did have fingerprinting in

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Speaker 3: the nineteen sixties, but it was a very it was

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Speaker 3: a very slow, laborious, labor and tensive process because community

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Speaker 3: computers were still at its infancy, so it would require

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Speaker 3: really well chained, trained fingerprint prints technicians with excellent eyesight

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Speaker 3: and really high power magnifying equipment to be able to

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Speaker 3: compare layton prints left on you know, uh, an item

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Speaker 3: like a bullet, yeah, or print or on file. But

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Speaker 3: the interesting thing is if you look at the FBI

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Speaker 3: report on the man Mukir Carcano rifle. They only got

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Speaker 3: a portion of Oswald's palm print on a certain area

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Speaker 3: of that rifle. That he would not hold it in

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Speaker 3: that way. It would be he would be assembling the

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Speaker 3: rifles where the palm print came from. And here's the

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Speaker 3: other interesting, interesting interesting things. Who you know, while we're

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Speaker 3: on Oswalt, how did they test for gunfire or residue?

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Speaker 3: Back then? He's a paraton test right. They would pull

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Speaker 3: warm wax on someone's hand, you know, let it hard

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Speaker 3: and peel it off, and then head under a microscope

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Speaker 3: looking for you know, these little black specks of nitrates. Right,

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Speaker 3: So he just fired a rifle. There was some gunpowder reside,

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Speaker 3: gunpowder residue on his hand. But think about what he

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Speaker 3: had to do. He had to take that rifle, he

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Speaker 3: had to put it up to his face, he had

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Speaker 3: to sight his target, he had to fire it, cycle

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Speaker 3: the bolts, reacquire his target, fire it, recycle the bolts,

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Speaker 3: reacquire his target, to fire it again. It would have

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Speaker 3: had to have been gunpowder residue on his base and

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Speaker 3: his face hasted negative for gunpowder residue.

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Speaker 2: Interesting, and as he said he was a patsy.

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Speaker 3: He was a pathy, and I think he was a pathy.

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Speaker 3: I think there was at least one shooter, one of

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Speaker 3: the there's a gentleman. I can't recall his name off

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Speaker 3: the top of my head. He was. He was a

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Speaker 3: deaf mute who actually saw men with a rifle behind

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Speaker 3: the things, but couldn't get anyone to listen to him

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Speaker 3: because he was he was a guest. Beautiful.

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Speaker 2: And what about that smoke by the grassy knoll?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well they tried to put it off that it

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Speaker 3: was steam coming from you know, you know, from a

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Speaker 3: new rum thing. There are no steam pipes there. But

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Speaker 3: I also came across something in the research from my

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Speaker 3: book that that very shortly after I'm talking with in

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Speaker 3: seconds after the motorcake passed, you know, a cargo train

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Speaker 3: started rolling across the Triple over Pass bridge and and

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Speaker 3: as yet to find confirmation of it. But what a

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Speaker 3: preference escaper is.

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Speaker 2: My goodness, it is amazing, truly truly amazing point.

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Speaker 3: And it's funny because you know, and one of the

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Speaker 3: things that I that I that that I I do

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Speaker 3: against is a lot of people are willing to you know,

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Speaker 3: yes they know on some level that there might have

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Speaker 3: been some conspiracy, but a lot of people are willing

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Speaker 3: to put off a lot of the the the I

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Speaker 3: don't want to say coincidences because I despised that word,

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Speaker 3: but a lot of the events at that time they're

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Speaker 3: putting that out as coincidence. And the question that I

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Speaker 3: ask is, you know, at what point, at what you know,

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Speaker 3: we're stacking these individual facts on a scale. At what point,

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Speaker 3: to you, the individual, does the scale tip from pure

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Speaker 3: possible coincidence to a grander, well orchestrated plan. And the

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Speaker 3: answer is different for everyone, but I think at some

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Speaker 3: point in your analysis, as fact A leads you to

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Speaker 3: fact B, leads you to fact D, leads you to

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Speaker 3: fact D, et cetera, on down the road, where do

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Speaker 3: you where you as an individual or to make that

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Speaker 3: lead from oh yeah, this happened, Okay, this happened, This

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Speaker 3: happened to saying yeah, there's got to be something more

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Speaker 3: to it here. This has to be part of a

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Speaker 3: well thought out and orchestrated plan. Let me ask you

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Speaker 3: one question of all the Secret Service agents that were

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Speaker 3: in Dallas that day, and the cotal I have is

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Speaker 3: is twenty nine how many of those Secret Service agents

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Speaker 3: were interviewed by the FBI.

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Speaker 2: I would guess just a few zero zero unbelievable. Zero, unbelievable.

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Speaker 3: Now, all of the agents you know that were present,

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Speaker 3: you know, some were at the Trademarks somewhere back we're

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Speaker 3: back guarding the Air Force one. You know, some were accompanying. Uh.

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Speaker 2: But you'd at least interview the ones that were in

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Speaker 2: the motor key.

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Speaker 3: You would interview the ones that were in the motivate exactly.

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Speaker 3: Yet the FBI into zero.

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Speaker 2: What drives you, Paul? What pushes you?

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm not well, it's it's it's to solve

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Speaker 3: the unsolvable case, I guess right. I mean, this is

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Speaker 3: one of the most important events in the United States history.

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Speaker 3: I would argue that that the assassination of Lincoln and

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Speaker 3: the assassination of JFK had changed the trajectory of this

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Speaker 3: country a certain points, and I just want to know

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Speaker 3: what happened. I remember as a as a small boy,

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Speaker 3: sitting in my living room watching my parents tears streaming

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Speaker 3: down their face watching TV, and I just feel as

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Speaker 3: though I had to get to the bile of it.

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Speaker 2: I think I still think that the JFCA assassination was

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Speaker 2: a mob hit.

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Speaker 3: I think they might have been involved. I think they

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Speaker 3: may have been involved in it. But I think in

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Speaker 3: one of the previous discussion, you know, one of the

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Speaker 3: big things is that a number of people thought the

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Speaker 3: gunshot came from the grassy Doll. Okay, they started to

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Speaker 3: run towards the grassing Doll. And the interesting thing is

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Speaker 3: we're not talking about, you know, downtown New York or wherever.

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Speaker 3: They were talking about Texas, and Texas has a very

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Speaker 3: very deep gun culture. You know, there's an old joke

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Speaker 3: that you know, once you're born, when you're on your

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Speaker 3: way out of the hospital, they give you your growth certificate,

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Speaker 3: a nine millimeter posting some amor to get you started

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Speaker 3: off rating. Yeah, but you know so. And then I

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Speaker 3: started looking at people that claimed that the gunshots came

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Speaker 3: from the grassy go And it's a downtown area and

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Speaker 3: there are tall buildings all there's all kinds of of

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Speaker 3: echo and ricochet effects. But a surprising number of people

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Speaker 3: that said that the gunfighter came from the grassy know

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Speaker 3: were former military or current law enforcement. Nineteen sixty three,

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Speaker 3: we're eighteen years after the end of World War Two.

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Speaker 3: We're less than ten years after the end of the

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Speaker 3: Korean War. It's these veterans, how many rounds did they

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Speaker 3: send down range, either in training or in combat. I

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Speaker 3: think they can evaluate where gunfire is coming from yet

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Speaker 3: second nature. So I divided the witnesses, you know who

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Speaker 3: who claimed the gunshots came from the grass, you know,

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Speaker 3: And I started looking at their backgrounds, and I started

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Speaker 3: just kind of filling in some blanks on the military records,

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Speaker 3: and they were a surprising number that's at combat in

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Speaker 3: World War Two or career or both.

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Speaker 2: I'll always always think of the head that came to

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Speaker 2: Kennedy's head that snapped backwards instead of forwards. You would

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Speaker 2: think if you were shot from the back, the momentum

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Speaker 2: would push your head forward.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, some people try to claim it a with

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Speaker 3: you know, claim that Bill Greer, the driver kind of

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Speaker 3: started to accelerate which caused his head to snap back.

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Speaker 3: But in one of the videos you can actually see

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Speaker 3: the break lights on where he actually started to slow

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Speaker 3: down because he was saying, what the heck is going

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Speaker 3: on here? But if you look at and one of

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Speaker 3: the theories about you know, JFK's brain being missing was

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Speaker 3: the hide that what was the disguise the path of

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Speaker 3: the bullet. But if you look at the or real

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Speaker 3: mixed film and you can and you can look at

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Speaker 3: an undoctored version on YouTube. Okay, watch it on a

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Speaker 3: big screen, you know, use the little settings button to

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Speaker 3: have it play at twenty five percent speed. You actually

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Speaker 3: see wood extrewed from the front of the head. And

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Speaker 3: then follow up, I mean, if like, if like, it's

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Speaker 3: like watching someone put in a shower cap and just

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Speaker 3: watch that that that faint pink cloud and what appears

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Speaker 3: to be a piece of prose a Kennedy's skull just

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Speaker 3: envelop his head from front to back and then just

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Speaker 3: flip off the back of his head. And if you

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Speaker 3: do an analysis of where the motorcycle outriders were, who

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Speaker 3: had blood spout us who didn't, it's that, you know,

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Speaker 3: you come to an inclusion very very quickly at the

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Speaker 3: fatal shot gun.

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