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Speaker 3: Slash audio. All right, welcome to Hoops tonight. You're at
Speaker 3: the volume heavy sun, everybody off. All of you guys
Speaker 3: are having a great weekend.
Speaker 2: Kind of a bummer that our game seven ended up
Speaker 2: being a dut I kind of had a suspicion that
Speaker 2: it would be just simply because as soon as Aaron
Speaker 2: Gordon was hurt, even if they got out of this series,
Speaker 2: it just there's very little chance for them to survive
Speaker 2: two more playoff rounds. And as I always say, like,
Speaker 2: you gotta have belief if you're a basketball team to
Speaker 2: overcome great adversity, and it was always going to be
Speaker 2: difficult to beat Oklahoma City on the road, and Denver
Speaker 2: gave it a good punch there to start, but when
Speaker 2: they started to lose control of the rope, they just
Speaker 2: let go and Oklahoma City ends up blowing them out.
Speaker 2: One of their interesting defensive adjustments in this game, going
Speaker 2: to a lot of Alex Cruso on nikolea jokicen just
Speaker 2: fronting the posts that really turned the game around. We're
Speaker 2: gonna break that game down briefly from the perspective of
Speaker 2: both teams, and then we'll talk about Oklahoma City looking forward,
Speaker 2: and then we'll talk about Denver looking forward. Then we'll
Speaker 2: take about ten to fifteen minutes of mailbag questions before
Speaker 2: we call it a day. No playback today, just because
Speaker 2: it's a Sunday afternoon, but we'll be back with our
Speaker 2: usual playback after shit, starting with Game one of the
Speaker 2: Western Conference Finals on Tuesday nights, So you guys are
Speaker 2: gonna want to go over to playback dot tv slash
Speaker 2: Hoops Tonight to get set up there for our usual
Speaker 2: after shows that'll be starting back up on Tuesday. You
Speaker 2: guys are the jope. Before we get started, subscribe to
Speaker 2: the Hoops Tonight YouTube channels. You don't miss any more
Speaker 2: of our videos. Follow me on Twitter at Underscore JCNLT
Speaker 2: so you guys don't miss show announcement, So forget about
Speaker 2: our podcast feed wherever you get your podcast under Hoops Tonight.
Speaker 2: It's also super helpful if we leave a rating and
Speaker 2: review on that front. Jackson's doing great work on our
Speaker 2: social media feeds and Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. Make sure
Speaker 2: you guys follow us there, and last but not least,
Speaker 2: keep dropping mail bag questions in the chat so that
Speaker 2: we can get to the mail bag at the tail
Speaker 2: end of this show. All right, let's talk some basketball.
Speaker 2: So the start of this game looked very much like
Speaker 2: the classic experience gap, right, Like the ESPN graphic that's
Speaker 2: on the screen shows just the number of Game sevens
Speaker 2: both teams have played in, and Denver's just been in
Speaker 2: so many of them, and I think the total number
Speaker 2: of combined Game seven appearances for OKC was three, and
Speaker 2: that was lou Door Shay and Isaiah Hartenstein if I
Speaker 2: remember correctly, and like Isai HARTENSTEI didn't think that was
Speaker 2: last year. And then if I'm not mistaken, I think
Speaker 2: the Dort shay Wan I think that might be the
Speaker 2: James Harden blocked three in Game seven in the bubble,
Speaker 2: if I remember correctly. But that's the only Game seven
Speaker 2: experience that that group has had, right and that abundantly
Speaker 2: was clear. At the start of the game, the Nuggets
Speaker 2: looked like the far more comfortable and confident team. The
Speaker 2: Thunder offense looked super tight. Guys were missing layups, guys
Speaker 2: were missing jumpers. Denver's in control. Right from there, I
Speaker 2: thought three distinct stretches flipped the game. Stretch number one
Speaker 2: in the later third of the first quarter, Alex Crusoe
Speaker 2: and Russell Westbrook check into the game, Alex starts denying Nikolea.
Speaker 2: Jokic the catch at the high post, and just in
Speaker 2: general using a really good three quarter front slash full
Speaker 2: front to basically shut off passing angles into Jokic in
Speaker 2: the post in the high post from there. None of
Speaker 2: the Nuggets role players looked like they knew how to
Speaker 2: make a high post entry. Russell Westbrook had a couple
Speaker 2: of turnovers. He had a possession where he just said, screwed,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go to the rim and he got blocked.
Speaker 2: Christian Brown ended up finally missing a three, and suddenly
Speaker 2: that twenty one to ten lead was twenty six to
Speaker 2: twenty one going into the start of the second quarter.
Speaker 2: Just kind of felt like a different game, okaysee, kind
Speaker 2: of had some momentum coming out of the end of
Speaker 2: that first quarter. Then the second pivotal stretch, David Addleman
Speaker 2: makes the critical mistake of leaving Nikola Jokic and Jamal
Speaker 2: Murray both off the floor at the same time. In
Speaker 2: Game seven, at the start of the second quarter, the
Speaker 2: Thunder went on a six to zero run literally in
Speaker 2: sixty two seconds, a minute, in two seconds, all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, it's twenty seven to twenty six. All of
Speaker 2: a sudden, the Thunder have a lead in the game
Speaker 2: that the Nuggets controlled for you know, seven minutes, eight minutes.
Speaker 2: I think it was actually nine minutes. It was less
Speaker 2: than the total run from twenty one to ten to
Speaker 2: twenty seven to twenty six, took less than five minutes
Speaker 2: of game clock, just completely flipped the game. From there,
Speaker 2: the Nuggets stabilize, Jamal Murray hits a little jumper, puts
Speaker 2: the Nuggets back within one. Mark Dagenal calls the time out,
Speaker 2: puts chet Holmgren back in, and over the final three
Speaker 2: minutes of the first half, the Thunder closed it out
Speaker 2: on an eighteen to five run, kind of an extension
Speaker 2: of what we saw at the end of the first
Speaker 2: quarter Alex Crusoe, but also j Dubb during the stretch
Speaker 2: doing some great work battling for position against the Kola
Speaker 2: Jogic denials, poor post entries, forcing turnovers, runout dunks, and
Speaker 2: it basically ended the gate in a three minute stretch there.
Speaker 2: So if you look at the first half in general,
Speaker 2: for out of the twenty four minutes two thirds of it,
Speaker 2: Denver looked completely in control, methought at half court bass,
Speaker 2: methodical half court basketball, getting and making better shots. But
Speaker 2: in these short bursts spanning just eight minutes of game clock,
Speaker 2: the Thunder just completely dominate the game and Denver's never
Speaker 2: able to regain control from there. There's some reality to
Speaker 2: the difficulty of dealing with ball pressure guards. Any of
Speaker 2: you guys who've played basketball and are kind of a
Speaker 2: bigger player, you'll have some experience with this over the years,
Speaker 2: where like a ball pressure guard will just get up
Speaker 2: in your business and he's swiping at the ball and
Speaker 2: grabbing and klawn and doing all that stuff. And what
Speaker 2: you have to do is you've got to create space.
Speaker 2: And the only way to create space is to use
Speaker 2: to protect the ball, clear with your elbow, clear with
Speaker 2: your shoulder, use your hips, use pivot moves trying to
Speaker 2: clear out space against a smaller player. And it becomes
Speaker 2: a very delicate balance because most guards or most guards
Speaker 2: just naturally get a form of bias from officials because
Speaker 2: they're smaller, and so they just get to get away
Speaker 2: with more contact. And if you swing that elbow just right,
Speaker 2: even though his face is like right here in your
Speaker 2: personal space, the ref's gonna call that an offensive foul.
Speaker 2: And so I was talking about it on Twitter earlier today.
Speaker 2: It's like a form of gamesmanship and the same way
Speaker 2: that foul drawing guards like what Shay does or Jalen
Speaker 2: Brunson does or Austin Reeves does, In the same way
Speaker 2: that those guys grift their way to the foul line.
Speaker 2: On offense, there are defensive players who grift extra possessions
Speaker 2: by doing that sort of thing. Ball pressure, ball pressure,
Speaker 2: ball pressure. And what they do is they train themselves.
Speaker 2: As soon as they get any sort of contact above
Speaker 2: the shoulders, they just flop back and they're gonna get
Speaker 2: a call. And it's just complicated dealing with ball pressure.
Speaker 2: And it is what makes this Thunder defense so incredibly
Speaker 2: difficult to deal with, is you survive the dort jw phase.
Speaker 2: And here comes case On Wallace and Alex Cruso. They're
Speaker 2: probably even better at it than the first two guys are.
Speaker 2: And so it's just wave after wave. Aaron Wiggins gets
Speaker 2: in on the action too. It's just wave after wave
Speaker 2: after wave of big physical guard that's gonna get in
Speaker 2: your business and be aggressive and physical, and the rest
Speaker 2: aren't going to be able to call every foul and
Speaker 2: they do some gamesmanship with their own and it just
Speaker 2: is a overwhelming wave after wave of force on the
Speaker 2: defensive end that wears you down. And that's Howlkloma City
Speaker 2: won the series. Ultimately, they won this series with their defense.
Speaker 2: Looking forward for Oka See, I thought they showed a
Speaker 2: lot of growth throughout the series. Denver had them on
Speaker 2: the ropes three different times and games that they ended
Speaker 2: up winning just because they stuck to their identity and
Speaker 2: trusted that it would eventually carry them across the finish line,
Speaker 2: and it literally did. It took longer in game four,
Speaker 2: it took longer in Game five, but eventually they did
Speaker 2: wear down Denver's offense. Eventually they couldn't score the ball.
Speaker 2: Eventually their downhill force did break through the barrier that
Speaker 2: was Denver's defense. Alex Crusoe won you have playoff series.
Speaker 2: I don't think you win this series without Alex Cruz.
Speaker 2: I thought that was a really interesting thing in retrospect
Speaker 2: looking back at that trade, I hope Chicago's enjoying Josh Giddy.
Speaker 2: But Alex Crusoe is a veteran role player who came
Speaker 2: in the only rotation player on this team over the
Speaker 2: age of twenty six, and his ability to consistently knock
Speaker 2: down spot up threes in this series while also being
Speaker 2: a guy that not only was defending Jamal Murray extremely
Speaker 2: well at stretches, but was also doing a great job
Speaker 2: on NICOLEA. Jokicch for stretches. You could argue he was
Speaker 2: the best defender that Denver used on Nikole jokicch in
Speaker 2: the series. Just unbelievable output from a player that they
Speaker 2: brought in during the summer. Isaiah Hartenstein, by the way,
Speaker 2: to the job that he did on Jokic guarding his
Speaker 2: strong hand. Like the trades made this summer by Sam
Speaker 2: Presty to bring in Alex Crusoe, the decision to sign
Speaker 2: Isaiah Hartenstein, they literally gave this team a championship ceiling
Speaker 2: that would have been cut off at the knees right
Speaker 2: here in the second round. They would not have beat
Speaker 2: the Denver Nuggets had they brought last year's team back.
Speaker 2: So shout out to Sam Presti for those moves. I
Speaker 2: thought that was a nice bounce back game from j dub.
Speaker 2: I thought he just showed a more of a propensity
Speaker 2: to just attack the rim instead of settle for jump
Speaker 2: shots early in the clock. He did take a couple
Speaker 2: jumpers in the first half that he missed, but they
Speaker 2: were after he was aggressive downhill towards the basket. Just
Speaker 2: attack the rim and play defense and good things will happen.
Speaker 2: That's a great way to get yourself out of a
Speaker 2: slump is just play really hard and focus on the
Speaker 2: things that don't depend on variants. Looking at the Minnesota
Speaker 2: series again, I'm not going to have a prediction until tomorrow.
Speaker 2: I'm working on it. First thing in the morning, I'm
Speaker 2: to watch a ton of film. We'll have a full
Speaker 2: series preview at sometime, probably doing the early afternoon tomorrow.
Speaker 2: But it's a very interesting series. Two elite defenses with
Speaker 2: elite rim protection, and both teams have a legit too
Speaker 2: big look. Two elite on ball guards against two teams
Speaker 2: that have a ton of good on ball defense options,
Speaker 2: which should make for a very interesting series in the
Speaker 2: sense that both Shay and j Dub and Julius everyone
Speaker 2: should be on comfortable in this particular matchup. But there
Speaker 2: are three major differences between the two teams. The Wolves
Speaker 2: are bigger, while the Thunder are faster. I think that's
Speaker 2: like a kind of They're both very athletic, but in
Speaker 2: different ways. The Wolves, i think, are substantially more experienced
Speaker 2: and ants secondary shot creator is a veteran forward in
Speaker 2: Julius Randall, while Shae's backup shot creator is a younger
Speaker 2: guard in Jay Dub, and Julius has been a substantially
Speaker 2: more reliable offensive player. My initial gut feeling, and this
Speaker 2: might completely change tomorrow after I watch a bunch of tapes.
Speaker 2: So I'm not saying this is my pick, but my initial,
Speaker 2: like just gut reaction looking at the series is I
Speaker 2: trust Minnesota's offense to be able to score more over
Speaker 2: the top in these ugly ass games. These games are
Speaker 2: all going to be really low scoring, and I expect
Speaker 2: it to be the kind of series where it turns
Speaker 2: into can Ant make tough shots? Can Julius make tough shots?
Speaker 2: Can nas Read make tough shots? Can Chet Homer and
Speaker 2: Jay Dub shake GISs Alexander? And I just trust Julius
Speaker 2: Randall and Chet home, excuse me, Julius Randall and Nas
Speaker 2: Reed just a little bit more than I trust Chet
Speaker 2: Holmgren and Jay Dub right now.
Speaker 3: And so my.
Speaker 2: Initial gut reaction is to lean slightly towards Minnesota. But
Speaker 2: again that might change after I watch the film more
Speaker 2: intently tomorrow and start putting together that series preview. But
Speaker 2: again we'll have I think both series are more or
Speaker 2: less coin flips. Again, I picked Indy and I'm leaning Minnesota,
Speaker 2: but I think we've got an excellent conference final awaiting
Speaker 2: us between four pretty evenly matched teams at least respectively
Speaker 2: in their matchups, and I'm hopeful that for the first
Speaker 2: time since twenty twenty two, we get a good conference
Speaker 2: final because we've had a couple of brutal ones in
Speaker 2: a row. Denver, they had their chances man up eight
Speaker 2: in Game four in the fourth quarter, up nine in
Speaker 2: Game five in the fourth quarter. They'll be kicking themselves
Speaker 2: for a little while for this one. I think Jokic
Speaker 2: shall be kicking himself for Game four because that was
Speaker 2: the last game out of a three game stretch where
Speaker 2: couldn't make a shot, and if he would have been
Speaker 2: able to make more shots, his team would have won
Speaker 2: that game. I think Jamal Murray will be kicking himself
Speaker 2: for Game five because he was so good for the
Speaker 2: first three quarters and he just went cold in that
Speaker 2: fourth quarter. But overall, I was impressed by Denver's championship
Speaker 2: pedigree and their overall ability to make this into a
Speaker 2: very competitive series. I want to shout out Aaron Gordon.
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe he was gonna play, and as he
Speaker 2: was running around, I couldn't believe he was playing and
Speaker 2: there was a certain amount of like like they tried
Speaker 2: to keep him on heart and sign a little bit
Speaker 2: more so.
Speaker 3: He's less defending in action.
Speaker 2: He's doing a lot of switching off of every little screen,
Speaker 2: not really throwing a lot of effort in transition or
Speaker 2: in closeouts. But obviously he couldn't move, but I thought
Speaker 2: he was like positive impact on a Grade two hamstring strain,
Speaker 2: and it just is insane, and like, you know, when
Speaker 2: I think about Aaron Gordon, obviously I'm a little biased
Speaker 2: because I'm a University of Arizona fan, but this last
Speaker 2: three years for him in the postseason, I think he's
Speaker 2: been one of the better, more reliable, more versatile role
Speaker 2: players that I've seen. And to me, he's just a
Speaker 2: champion and a legend and someone that I've got a
Speaker 2: great deal of respect for. And he's got a long
Speaker 2: career ahead of him. And I think that's a perfect
Speaker 2: springboard to this next conversation, which is I want to
Speaker 2: start this point of view from a very basic kind
Speaker 2: of like position that I hold, which is I do think,
Speaker 2: like without a doubt that Jamal Murray, Christian Brown, Aaron Gordon,
Speaker 2: and Nikola Jokic is a Championship Corps. I think those
Speaker 2: four guys can absolutely start at those respective four positions
Speaker 2: and win the championship. They just badly need to upgrade
Speaker 2: that Michael Porter Junior slot. That was a problem throughout
Speaker 2: this postseason. Whether it was them not being able to
Speaker 2: trust MPJ, not being able to trust Russ, not being
Speaker 2: able to trust Peyton Watson, they just didn't have a
Speaker 2: reliable fifth guy. Michael Porter Junior is going to be
Speaker 2: a difficult player to trade, but he is the kind
Speaker 2: of player that I'd be looking to move this offseason
Speaker 2: for a defensive minded wing because of Aaron Gordon's development
Speaker 2: as a shooter. Christian Brown again over the tail end
Speaker 2: of the series got his jump shot figured out, and
Speaker 2: also Aaron Gordon and Christian Brown are two examples of
Speaker 2: defensive minded players that have become better shooters. I think
Speaker 2: those dudes will probably get with whatever defensive minded wing
Speaker 2: you get and friendly bully him into becoming a better shooter.
Speaker 2: Like I would just be looking for someone in that
Speaker 2: mold of the Herb Jones, Jaden McDaniel's type of player.
Speaker 2: Obviously you're not gonna be able to get Jayden, but
Speaker 2: I would be looking for that type of big, rangey
Speaker 2: wing athlete that can basically fill in the baseline spacer
Speaker 2: role off of Jokic as a cutter. Now that Gordon
Speaker 2: and Brown can shoot the ball as well as they do,
Speaker 2: and that raises your defensive ceiling and your overall at
Speaker 2: the leticism substantially, which I think would be an upgrade.
Speaker 2: And then the last thing I'll say about it just
Speaker 2: Jamal's conditioning. I think I think he needs to come
Speaker 2: into camp ready to go and maximize himself to the
Speaker 2: point where he's a more reliably good player in these situations.
Speaker 2: Jamal was bad tonight, but he was fantastic in Game six,
Speaker 2: and he was really good in Game five until he wasn't.
Speaker 2: And so I think there's a clear shot making ceiling
Speaker 2: there with him that he will reach more consistently if
Speaker 2: he just becomes the kind of player that maximizes what
Speaker 2: he can get out of his body over the course
Speaker 2: of a season. And so I think there's just I
Speaker 2: think it's about maximizing what you have on board, making
Speaker 2: an upgrade to that fifth starter spot at the small
Speaker 2: forward position. I think there's a real opportunity there for
Speaker 2: Denver to pivot and not have to ditch their continuity.
Speaker 2: Like I was talking to Colin today and Collin's like, well,
Speaker 2: do you think they should trade Jamal Murray?
Speaker 3: No, I don't.
Speaker 2: To me, Jamal Murray's continuity with Jokic in the two
Speaker 2: man game is of substain value and you could get
Speaker 2: a player who on paper is better than Jamal, but
Speaker 2: it's not as good within this particular team in this fit.
Speaker 2: And so I think I think it's I think you
Speaker 2: bet on continuity and you just upgrade that fifth starter
Speaker 2: spot go from there. You've got enough young talent with
Speaker 2: you know, Jalen Pickett and and Peyton Watson off the bench,
Speaker 2: Julian straw the had his moments in this series. They've
Speaker 2: got They've got their opportunity to uh to get more
Speaker 2: talent out of you, out of your young players. In
Speaker 2: the big picture, I think they just got to upgrade
Speaker 2: that fifth starter spot.
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Speaker 2: All right, let's bring Jackson on and take some questions.
Speaker 3: Let's do it.
Speaker 4: Let's do it. Just sort of sticking on this Denver
Speaker 4: point for a second, do you think Denver's issues have
Speaker 4: more to do with the small forward position or a
Speaker 4: lack of depth?
Speaker 2: So I I think like there's a certain amount of
Speaker 2: depth that will come naturally through the development of their
Speaker 2: young players. Like, I don't think the issue is having
Speaker 2: Peyton Watson and Julian Strawther as you're you know, even
Speaker 2: Russell Westbrook in this case, as you're six seven eight.
Speaker 2: It's just not having a five. They just didn't have
Speaker 2: a five. Like I feel like this. I feel like
Speaker 2: if the Nuggets got reliable play out of Michael Porter
Speaker 2: Junior in this series, they win.
Speaker 3: I just think they do.
Speaker 2: So, Like I think I think that is a more
Speaker 2: achievable goal looking at it through the lens of one
Speaker 2: piece and then understanding like there's going to be year
Speaker 2: over year improved with your young talent. That's those guys
Speaker 2: are going to have their opportunities next year to get
Speaker 2: plenty of playtime. It's just you gotta have five guys
Speaker 2: that you trust in a big spot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they they didn't.
Speaker 4: They definitely didn't have five guys they trusted in this series.
Speaker 4: That's for sure. That is for sure.
Speaker 3: Do you agree with me that the top four, though,
Speaker 3: are good? I do? I do.
Speaker 4: I feel like the relationship and the continuity you're describing
Speaker 4: with Jamal and Jokicic feels very of the Steph and
Speaker 4: Draymond conversation to me, where it's like, yeah, there might
Speaker 4: be a better player than Draymond Green to pair with
Speaker 4: Steph curR. Yeah, there might be a better player to
Speaker 4: pair with Yogas and Jamal Murray. But the chemistry they
Speaker 4: have on the court takes a long long time to develop,
Speaker 4: and you're not Most teams aren't winning a championship without
Speaker 4: some level of the sum is greater than the parts.
Speaker 4: Even when those parts are amazing, you need the sum
Speaker 4: to be greater. And that's where that chemistry I think
Speaker 4: is really, really, really valuable.
Speaker 2: That's a great point. Like we talk about this literally
Speaker 2: all the time. Your value in a vacuum doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: Everything value. The only value that matters is your value
Speaker 2: on that basketball team. And the Draymond Steph partnership supersedes
Speaker 2: any potential partnership of Steph with another big that doesn't
Speaker 2: have that like seamless synergy that you get out of
Speaker 2: those two, Like even with Anthony Davis, like if you
Speaker 2: had to because I remember we had that Warriors fan,
Speaker 2: it was like, well, what if we can get Ad,
Speaker 2: Like if let's say you had to use Draymond as
Speaker 2: salary filler in the AD trade. There's obviously massive upside
Speaker 2: with AD. But one of the downsides would be Ad
Speaker 2: is not as good of a processor and short role
Speaker 2: player as Draymond is. And so even though AD's greatness
Speaker 2: would supersede and I'm sure the Warriors would be better
Speaker 2: with AD because he's the type of superstar player, but
Speaker 2: the point is is it's more complicated. It's not just
Speaker 2: as simple as attaching an in a vacuum talent like
Speaker 2: Steph because he brings two to the ball twenty five
Speaker 2: feet from the basket. Processing is like one of the
Speaker 2: most valuable skills for a player playing alongside of him,
Speaker 2: and that's one of the things that Draymond brings.
Speaker 4: Yeah, one hundred percent. It's like, and there's obviously exceptions
Speaker 4: to that, Like if you put Yannis with Steph curR, yes,
Speaker 4: that's just enough of a talent gap where it's worth it.
Speaker 4: And you put Steph Curry with Nikola Jokic, it's enough
Speaker 4: of a talent gap to replace Tramal Murray.
Speaker 3: But you're not.
Speaker 4: It's it's gonna be challenging to have enough of a
Speaker 4: talent gap to replace that chemistry that we're sort.
Speaker 3: Of describing, I think exactly exactly.
Speaker 4: Next question, Jason, what kind of defense do you think
Speaker 4: Many will play against Oka see? Will they throw a
Speaker 4: lot of zone out there? Okay, okay, so he did
Speaker 4: have some trouble with his zone earlier in the series
Speaker 4: before they sort of figured it out a little bit.
Speaker 2: I think we'll see some zone. But I think this
Speaker 2: is going to be a man de man series for
Speaker 2: both teams. I think it's going to be a ball pressure,
Speaker 2: load up the strong side, force you to move the
Speaker 2: ball and shoot against the hard, close out.
Speaker 3: Type of game.
Speaker 2: Like I think I think we could see extended, ugly
Speaker 2: stretches like extended ugly stretches from both Shay and and
Speaker 2: in this series, like both of these defenses are perfectly
Speaker 2: designed to deal with each other. Like it's like a
Speaker 2: it's a real problem for both teams and the like
Speaker 2: for as fast as Okay see is, they're going to
Speaker 2: be dealing with Minnesota's length, And there's a certain amount
Speaker 2: of like chasing over the top jump shooter who's going
Speaker 2: to be shooting against length. But like, at the same time,
Speaker 2: ant superpower is his quickness and his ability to beat
Speaker 2: people off the dribble with speed, and and there's just
Speaker 2: a lot of athletes that are going to be standing
Speaker 2: right in his way throughout this entire series. And so
Speaker 2: I think it's going to be very much a tough
Speaker 2: shot making for the stars kind of series and a
Speaker 2: catch and shoot three for mediocre role players type of
Speaker 2: series out of main and demand sequences. And I think
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised if we had multiple games in
Speaker 2: this series where neither team gets two hundred.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it does feel like both teams have unique defensive
Speaker 4: options to throw against the other team's best player, being
Speaker 4: able to have Dork Caruso Cason Wallace to throw at
Speaker 4: Anthony Edwards and to have Anthony Edwards and Jane McDaniels
Speaker 4: to throw at and they got Both teams have a
Speaker 4: lot of athletic defenders. Dante is super quick. Yeah, they
Speaker 4: can throw, and they all have different sort of strengths
Speaker 4: and types of defenders. They could mix up the looks.
Speaker 4: What I think is you know, valuable as well. How
Speaker 4: would next question? How would you rank the last four
Speaker 4: teams in terms of championship odds?
Speaker 2: This is a really good question. I think Oklahoma City
Speaker 2: should be a substantial favorite over both Indiana and New York.
Speaker 2: Minnesota I would make a smaller favorite over Indiana and
Speaker 2: New York, but I think i'd make them favored. But
Speaker 2: I think that Minnesota okay Se could go either way,
Speaker 2: if that makes sense. So like strictly speaking the matchups,
Speaker 2: I view Minnesota okay See as a coin flip, but
Speaker 2: going forward into the finals, I viewed Minnesota as more
Speaker 2: susceptible to a loss to Indiana or New York than
Speaker 2: I view okay See. I think okay See would dispatch
Speaker 2: of the Knicks and the Pacers pretty quickly. It's just
Speaker 2: a nightmare matchup for both of them to have to
Speaker 2: deal with all that guard speed on the ball. So
Speaker 2: with that being the case, I'm gonna go I would
Speaker 2: rank the Thunder small gap Timberwolves, big gap Pacers, small
Speaker 2: gap Knicks.
Speaker 3: That's how I'll put it.
Speaker 4: I think I agree, and DraftKings does not DraftKings has
Speaker 4: I mean they agree with part of it. They have
Speaker 4: OKAC as the heavy favorite minus one sixty five, and
Speaker 4: then I think, probably just because you can only get
Speaker 4: one of the two Western Conference teams in the finals,
Speaker 4: that from an odds perspective, they have an Eastern Conference
Speaker 4: team next the Knicks and.
Speaker 3: Plus fo that makes sense.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and then the Timberwolves are plus five point
Speaker 4: fifty and the Pacers are plus seven hundred.
Speaker 2: See. You know what's interesting about that, though, is I
Speaker 2: think it's I think it's substantially more likely that Minnesota
Speaker 2: sneaks through OKC and beats who comes out of the
Speaker 2: East than either of the East teams beating Okay.
Speaker 3: See yeah I did too. Yeah. Like it's just.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine Haliburton and Brunson and nemhard like just
Speaker 2: dealing with the incessant wave of Cason Wallace and Alex
Speaker 2: Caruso and lou Dord and yeah, like it just I
Speaker 2: think it would just be too much for him. Like
Speaker 2: I I view the Western Conference Finals as basically the
Speaker 2: NBA Finals.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I tend to agree. And this is not to
Speaker 4: take shots at Tyre's Halliburn or Jalen Brunson, because those
Speaker 4: guys deal with a lot of good athletic defenders all
Speaker 4: the time. But you saw it, for for stretches in
Speaker 4: Game five of the Knick Celtics series where when Jalen
Speaker 4: Brown is like, I'm going to turn into a defensive
Speaker 4: like demon right now. That caused some problems for Jalen
Speaker 4: Brunson and not I mean, they obviously won the series,
Speaker 4: it's not anything like that. But if you got three
Speaker 4: different guys you can are always going to be fresh
Speaker 4: ish to throw at Jalen Brunster Tyre's Halliburton. It's it
Speaker 4: would be a challenge, I think against.
Speaker 2: A simple stat to kind of break this down. Denver
Speaker 2: in the regular season with Nikolea Jokic on the floor
Speaker 2: had a one twenty six offensive rating, okay for Denver
Speaker 2: versus Okac in this round, they had a one oh
Speaker 2: four offensive rating with Jokic on the floor, So Okac
Speaker 2: was literally able to cut Denver's regular season offense production
Speaker 2: by twenty two points per one hundred possessions.
Speaker 3: That's crazy like they are. It's crazy they are.
Speaker 2: You know, Like I saw our friend uh in colleague
Speaker 2: Carson Breber talking about them as an all time great defense,
Speaker 2: and I'm always hesitant to throw that phrase out until
Speaker 2: we like get there, but like if if they're gonna
Speaker 2: get there, this is what it would look like. Like
Speaker 2: they're certainly in the process. It's kind of like it
Speaker 2: reminds me of like watching Jokics in twenty twenty and
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, where you're like, this.
Speaker 3: Guy might be the best you know this, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: might be the best player.
Speaker 2: Like this this defense from Okay see looks looks like
Speaker 2: one of those special defenses in NBA history that can
Speaker 2: really cause problems for teams. And the reason why Denver
Speaker 2: had extended stretches of success against Okase is they had
Speaker 2: this big mammoth human that could just run like some
Speaker 2: of Jokic's drop step buckets through double teams today. Did
Speaker 2: you see some of those today where he's just like
Speaker 2: he just spins into traffic and just goes through like
Speaker 2: three dudes and lays it up the Knicks, and the
Speaker 2: Pacers just don't have that option against this Thunder team,
Speaker 2: and I just think I think they'd be in some
Speaker 2: real trouble.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And it's sort of like we talked a lot about
Speaker 4: Anthony Edward sort of being this like King King Slayer.
Speaker 4: He's taken out all these you know, all time grades
Speaker 4: on his way to on this playoff run. If the
Speaker 4: Thunder end up winning the title, you know, the first
Speaker 4: round is whatever. But being able to say we put
Speaker 4: the clamps on Jokic, we put the clamps on a
Speaker 4: Timberwolves team that just kind of shredded a great Golden
Speaker 4: not shredded, but like had a lot of success against
Speaker 4: a good, very very good Warriors defense.
Speaker 3: Ye.
Speaker 4: And then we put the clamps on Jalen Brunson or
Speaker 4: Tyre's Halliburton's World win Pacers, like that would be a
Speaker 4: pretty impressive defensive finals run.
Speaker 2: I think I agree, And I think you're hitting on
Speaker 2: another interesting thing, which is that I think Golden State
Speaker 2: was a really good tune up for Minnesota to prepare
Speaker 2: for Oka.
Speaker 3: See.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine if Minnesota had gone straight from the
Speaker 2: Lakers to Okay see that like I would have probably
Speaker 2: picked Okac in a heartbeat, but getting that Golden State
Speaker 2: matchup is like, here's a real fast, smart defense that
Speaker 2: that'll throw you for a loop. The difference is is
Speaker 2: you'll be facing real rim protection in this round.
Speaker 4: Yeah, all right, let's see one more sort of kind
Speaker 4: of abstract crazy question and then we can wrap up
Speaker 4: for the day. I love the show. What do you
Speaker 4: think of this trade? This is a this is a
Speaker 4: this is.
Speaker 3: A blocky.
Speaker 4: The l A Lakers get Jared Allen, DeAndre Hunter, Isaaca Korro,
Speaker 4: and Dean Wade, and Cleveland gets Lebron James.
Speaker 3: Okay, read me the names one more time.
Speaker 4: Jared Allen, Jared Allen, DeAndre Hunter, DeAndre Corro, Hunter, and
Speaker 4: Dean Wade. And apparently this does work for the money,
Speaker 4: according to the commenter.
Speaker 2: Okay, let me let me conceptualize this for just a second.
Speaker 2: So in this universe, the Calves would then run out
Speaker 2: with Struce at the three with Lebron and Mobley and
Speaker 2: they would lose the depth of DeAndre Hunter and Dean
Speaker 2: Wade and the Lakers would get so it would be
Speaker 2: Austin a Coro would be there.
Speaker 3: Two I suppose, well.
Speaker 4: It's Luca Austin and DeAndre Hunter.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, you're right, Luca Austin and DeAnda Hunter
Speaker 2: would be so it'd be Hunter and Ruie would be the.
Speaker 4: Three, Hunter and Ruie and then Jared Allen.
Speaker 3: And then Allen at the center and then and then.
Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's not the worst. It's an interesting,
Speaker 4: stay competitive, but not but not punt on anything long term.
Speaker 4: You're like Hunter or Allen are are still like in
Speaker 4: their rising into their prime, if not in their prime,
Speaker 4: they're not old by any means.
Speaker 2: They're also Yeah, to your point, there are also players
Speaker 2: that like specifically struggled in the postseason and that Cleveland
Speaker 2: fans are probably like, I'll drive you to the airport anyway.
Speaker 4: Right, and sort of like both teams being like, damn,
Speaker 4: I don't really want to trade these guys, don't I
Speaker 4: never said I wanted to trade these guys, but if
Speaker 4: you're asking for them, I'll listen to a phone call.
Speaker 2: So so, so Cleveland basically gets to use Lebron as
Speaker 2: like a one year rental slash.
Speaker 3: They can drop his money off the books eventually.
Speaker 4: Right there there, there might have to be to do
Speaker 4: a total vibe shift if they if they run it
Speaker 4: back and lose again in the second round.
Speaker 3: Yea exactly next year.
Speaker 2: And I think we came out of that series looking
Speaker 2: pretty clearly like, yeah, Mitchell and MOBILEI are their two guys.
Speaker 2: Garland's a big question mark. Still man, That's a really
Speaker 2: interesting trade.
Speaker 3: That's it. That's something that.
Speaker 2: I would I like if if Lebron was dead serious
Speaker 2: about being willing to go back to Cleveland, It'd be
Speaker 2: an interesting trade to explore and look at some different
Speaker 2: machinations in the sense that like, yeah, I I the one,
Speaker 2: the one other thing those I wonder if Cleveland's going
Speaker 2: to look to potentially trade Garland at some point if
Speaker 2: like how many times are they going to is Garland
Speaker 2: going to be basically useless in the postseason before that
Speaker 2: they before they look to go a different direction there.
Speaker 2: But that could be an entirely separate deal. This is interesting.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say that I would do it because
Speaker 2: I think the Lakers.
Speaker 3: Here's my issue.
Speaker 2: If I'm the Lakers, DeAndre Hunting, DeAndre Hunter and Rui
Speaker 2: are both redundant. There are big forwards that struggle to
Speaker 2: defend on the perimeter, that are good catch and shoot
Speaker 2: players that can put the ball on the floor and
Speaker 2: attack and close out that can attack a mismatch. They're
Speaker 2: but they're both better at four than they are at
Speaker 2: the three. In my opinion, Jared Allen is not quite
Speaker 2: the vertical spacer that Luca typically likes to play with,
Speaker 2: but he is a very good like short like a
Speaker 2: short range spacer, meaning like floaters and push shots and
Speaker 2: stuff like that. He's a switchable big that I think,
Speaker 2: which I think obviously JJ Reddick would like. And Isaacacorro's
Speaker 2: a real athletic upgrade. But after all of them just
Speaker 2: struggled in the postseason, I think you'd have a hard
Speaker 2: time giving up Lebron for him. It's an interesting idea,
Speaker 2: though I'm not gonna say I would do it or not,
Speaker 2: but that is a is an interesting idea, And like
Speaker 2: if Lebron, if Lebron decides that he wants to go
Speaker 2: back to Cleveland, there are certainly some avenues there to
Speaker 2: make that into uh into an interesting trade.
Speaker 3: What do you have any big picture thought on it?
Speaker 4: I mean, it's just it's kind of hard to to
Speaker 4: wrap your head around, but I do feel I do
Speaker 4: feel like it kind of.
Speaker 3: It.
Speaker 4: It's both teams are in a sort of we don't
Speaker 4: feel like we have the roster clearly to be contenders.
Speaker 4: There has to be some kind of shake up, it
Speaker 4: feels like for both teams. But it's hard to part
Speaker 4: ways with any of the guys that you would need
Speaker 4: to to make a trade, Like if you're if you're
Speaker 4: a Cavaliers fan, I think it's tough to be like
Speaker 4: run it back, just exact same roster running back. That's
Speaker 4: also like, who do we really feel confident about trading?
Speaker 2: The Jared Allen piece is the complicated one to me,
Speaker 2: because you trade him, you instantly become a dramatically worse
Speaker 2: regular season team. But this is he's been He's gotten
Speaker 2: his ass kicked in the postseason multiple times in the
Speaker 2: last couple of years. So like like Mitchell Robinson ate
Speaker 2: him alive a couple of years ago, he got demolished
Speaker 2: by Myles Turner in this round, Like there's a it's
Speaker 2: just really hard to sell your fan base on the
Speaker 2: idea like, hey, you guys, did you like that when
Speaker 2: we won sixty four games? Well, without jarreed, we're gonna
Speaker 2: get fifty one to fifty two wins. How does that
Speaker 2: sound to you?
Speaker 3: Guys?
Speaker 2: You know but then the way you cause, like, especially
Speaker 2: with Lebron, Like, Lebron's not going to be some super
Speaker 2: impactful regular season player. But I would argue that Garland, Mitchell, Struce, Lebron,
Speaker 2: and Mobiley have a much better chance to win in
Speaker 2: the postseason than that version does. And so that it's it's, it's, it's,
Speaker 2: it's definitely worth exploring. All right, guys, that's all we
Speaker 2: have for today. As always, we sincerely appreciate you guys
Speaker 2: for supporting us and supporting the show. As I said,
Speaker 2: we will be going tomorrow early afternoon ish with our
Speaker 2: series preview on the Timberwolves and the Thunder. Very much
Speaker 2: looking forward digging into that tomorrow. No playback today, but
Speaker 2: we'll get back to our normal playback after shows on Tuesday.
Speaker 3: Again.
Speaker 2: That's playback dot tv slash Hoops tonight for you guys
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Speaker 2: for rocking with us and we'll see it tomorrow. What's
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Speaker 3: The volume