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Speaker 4: Mago?

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Speaker 5: I've been trying to write a promo for our podcast,

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Speaker 5: Part Time Genius, but even though we've done over two

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Speaker 5: hundred and fifty episodes, we don't really talk about murderers

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Speaker 5: or cults.

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Speaker 6: I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese,

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Speaker 6: so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy. We

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Speaker 6: also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food?

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Speaker 6: And how do dollar stores make money? And then, of

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Speaker 6: course can you game a dog show? So what you're

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Speaker 6: saying is everyone should be listening. Listen to Part Time

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Speaker 6: Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 7: Hey, it's horehand Daniel here, and we want to tell

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Speaker 7: you about our new book.

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Speaker 1: It's called Frequently ask Questions about the Universe.

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Speaker 7: Because you have questions about the universe, and so we

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Speaker 7: decided to write a book all about them.

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Speaker 1: We talk about your questions, we give some answers, we

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Speaker 1: make a bunch of silly.

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Speaker 7: Jokes as usual, and we tackle all kinds of questions,

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Speaker 7: including what happens if I fall into a black hole?

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Speaker 7: Or is there another version of you out there that's right?

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Speaker 1: Like usual, we tackle the deepest, darkest, biggest, craziest questions

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Speaker 1: about this incredible cosmos.

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Speaker 7: So if you want to support the podcast, please get

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Speaker 7: the book and get a copy of not just for yourself,

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Speaker 7: but you know, for your nieces and nephews, cousins, friends, parents, dogs, hamsters, and.

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Speaker 1: For the aliens. So get your copy of Frequently Asked

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Speaker 1: Questions about the Universe is available for pre order now,

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Speaker 1: coming out November two. You can find more details at

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Speaker 1: the book's website universe faq dot com.

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Speaker 7: Thanks for your support, and if you have a hamster

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Speaker 7: that can read, please let us know. We'd love to

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Speaker 7: have them on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Hey, Jorgey, why do you think we get so many

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Speaker 1: questions about black holes.

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Speaker 7: Mm, well, you know it's the mystery. You know, they're

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Speaker 7: so inscrutable.

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Speaker 1: They're like the reclusive celebrities of the.

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Speaker 7: Universe exactly right, Like the more they avoid the paparazzi,

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Speaker 7: the more people want to know about them.

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Speaker 1: That could be true, But I was actually wondering if

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Speaker 1: it might be the exact opposite.

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Speaker 7: Hmmm, what do you mean?

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Speaker 1: Well, what if black holes are like the car crash

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Speaker 1: of the universe. They're like a cosmic disaster that you

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Speaker 1: can't drive by without slowing down to check it out.

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Speaker 7: Arey saying physicists are just rubberneckers, cosmic rubberneckers. That sounds

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Speaker 7: kind of dangerous, like you might cause another accident by

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Speaker 7: not watching where you were driving your spaceship.

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Speaker 1: Exactly. That's the gravitational runaway effects of the black holes.

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Speaker 1: Slow down to check it out, get sucked in, make

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Speaker 1: a big black hole.

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Speaker 7: That's how I feel about driving in Los Angeles. It's

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Speaker 7: like an infinite black hole that you will never escape.

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Speaker 7: I am Jorge Made, cartoonist and the creator of PhD comics.

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor

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Speaker 1: at UC Irvine. But I almost never go up to

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles.

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Speaker 7: Really do you avoid it like a black hole.

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Speaker 1: If it was a black hole, it would suck me in.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm trying to stay in orbit around Los

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Speaker 1: Angeles instead of falling into the singularity.

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Speaker 7: Yes, where time slows down through plastic surgery apparently. But yeah,

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Speaker 7: I mean you're kind of famous now, Daniel. You don't

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Speaker 7: get calls from Hollywood these days.

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Speaker 1: I screened my calls, so if they're calling, I'm just

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Speaker 1: not picking them up.

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Speaker 7: You look for the aera code. If it's your local

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Speaker 7: aer code, it's spam. If it's three and oh, then

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Speaker 7: it's someone from Hollywood, like Jorge, so you just up.

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Speaker 1: Also, you know, there's famous and then there's Los Angeles famous.

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Speaker 1: You could be like super famous in Orange County and

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Speaker 1: be nobody in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 7: But anyways, welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain

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Speaker 7: the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio, in which.

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Speaker 1: We ask all the biggest and famous and most time

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Speaker 1: dilated questions of the universe. We ask all of them

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Speaker 1: about it, where it came from, where it's going, what

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Speaker 1: it's made out of, and how it all works. We

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Speaker 1: dive deep into the questions about black holes and neutron

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Speaker 1: stars and galaxies and tiny particles and qoisars and everything

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Speaker 1: in between, because we think it's possible to download all

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Speaker 1: of that into your amazing brain and hold for a

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Speaker 1: moment an understanding of the entire universe.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, because it is a pretty famous universe. Everyone seems

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Speaker 7: to know about it. Everyone's a fan. I would hope

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Speaker 7: you know, it's everywhere he goes he can get away

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Speaker 7: from this universe, and it's pretty fascinating, even its black sheep.

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Speaker 7: You know, everyone wants to know about the black sheep

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Speaker 7: of the celebrities.

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Speaker 1: Yes, have you been checking out the universe's reviews on Yelp?

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Speaker 7: Yes, I think it has about infinite and also infinite thumbs.

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Speaker 7: But you know it's about fifty to fifty up and down, that's.

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Speaker 1: Right, And you know nobody has any other alternatives. It's

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Speaker 1: not like people like, hey, I was in this other

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Speaker 1: universe the other day and they have better chips. So

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Speaker 1: you know, this is basically all we got learn to

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Speaker 1: love at people.

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Speaker 7: Maybe you just need to get out more, Daniel. You

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Speaker 7: might find other universes if you just, you know, get

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Speaker 7: out of your Orange County bubble.

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Speaker 1: La does seem like another universe sometimes not just because

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Speaker 1: it's weird, but because it takes forever to get there.

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Speaker 7: Definitely an alternate reality for sure. But anyways, Yeah, people

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Speaker 7: are curious not just about the universe but about the

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Speaker 7: things in it, especially the things that are extra mysterious.

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Speaker 1: And those are the things that dry physics. We look

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Speaker 1: around in the universe and we say, do we understand

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Speaker 1: how this works? Does that bit over there make sense?

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Speaker 1: And if it doesn't, then we focus our brains on

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Speaker 1: and try to understand how could that possibly work? How

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Speaker 1: could that make sense? How could that be consistent with

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Speaker 1: what we know about the nature of space and time

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Speaker 1: and energy, And so the weirdest things are also the

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Speaker 1: best opportunities to learn something about the universe.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, because when you look around, I guess it's all

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Speaker 7: pretty bright and beautiful and majestic and cosmic. But every

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Speaker 7: once in a while, when you look at into the universe,

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Speaker 7: there is basically a big hole, like a big hole

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Speaker 7: in our knowledge and also literally figuratively and in all

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Speaker 7: the ways there are actual holes in the universe.

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Speaker 1: There are holes in the universe, and you know, to

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Speaker 1: answer the question of our intro I think one reason

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Speaker 1: that they're fascinating is because they are so different from

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Speaker 1: what we experience. You know, it's not just like, hey,

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Speaker 1: there's a banana out there in space, like we know bananas,

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Speaker 1: we eat bananas, We're familiar with bananas. You know. It's

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Speaker 1: something out there in space which is so different from

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Speaker 1: our everyday experience, so bizarre that we just sort of

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Speaker 1: like want to see it.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, so today on the podcast, we'll be tackling unanswered

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Speaker 7: questions about black holes. Now, Daniel, I assume it's not

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Speaker 7: just bananas out there.

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Speaker 1: We don't know, you know, maybe bananas are the fundamental

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Speaker 1: element of the universe and it is just all bananas

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Speaker 1: all the way down. That's viable theory.

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Speaker 7: Sounds like a slippery slope there.

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Speaker 1: We just got to peel back the layers of reality

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Speaker 1: until we reveal the banana inside.

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Speaker 7: But yeah, black holes. A lot of people have questions

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Speaker 7: about black holes. And you were asking me earlier why

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Speaker 7: they're so mysterious. Like everyone, you get a lot of

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Speaker 7: questions about black holes.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I say like a third of all the

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Speaker 1: questions we get are about black holes. What happens if

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Speaker 1: you fall in them? What would they look like if

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Speaker 1: you did this, What would happen if you shoot two

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Speaker 1: black holes at each other? All sorts of questions people

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Speaker 1: love to think about black holes.

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Speaker 7: Interesting a third of the questions, that's amazing. It's like

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Speaker 7: it's own black hole in your inbox.

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Speaker 1: It does make my inbox pretty dense. But I love it.

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Speaker 1: I love thinking about black holes just as much as

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Speaker 1: our listeners do for the same reasons, you know. And

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Speaker 1: the cool thing about black holes is that we all

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Speaker 1: understand them about as well. You know. I love that

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Speaker 1: we can bring our listeners to the very forefront of knowledge,

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Speaker 1: because in the case of black holes, it's not that

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Speaker 1: far away. You know. We just don't understand very much

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Speaker 1: about these weird, mysterious objects. I think that's why they're

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Speaker 1: so fascinating to physicists, because they represent such a great

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Speaker 1: opportunity to learn something new and shocking about the universe.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, So today we're answering questions that we've gotten in

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Speaker 7: about black holes from listen Earth just like you. And

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Speaker 7: we've got three pretty interesting questions, one of them about

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Speaker 7: the mass of a black hole, about mini black holes,

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Speaker 7: and also about whether or not black holes can explain

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Speaker 7: dark matter. So let's jump into our first question right

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Speaker 7: away here and it comes from Levi from the Ukraine.

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Speaker 4: Hi, Daniel LeVar.

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Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Levi and nuper Ukraine.

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Speaker 8: And I had two questions about my favorite topic, which.

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Speaker 1: Is black holes.

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Speaker 8: First, how is the mass of a black hole calculated?

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Speaker 7: And?

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Speaker 9: Second?

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Speaker 8: Is there any way to know when an event horizon

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Speaker 8: of a black hole begins? If I were to say,

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Speaker 8: take a rocket shift to the black hole and the

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Speaker 8: cinem our galaxy, is there any way that I could

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Speaker 8: know when I need to turn that thing around for

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Speaker 8: it becomes spaghetti?

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Speaker 9: Thank you?

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Speaker 7: Hmmm? Interesting question? Now was he allowed to questions? I

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Speaker 7: feel like he's not an extra question in his question?

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Speaker 7: Inploded into a black hole because of its density, Yeah,

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Speaker 7: it multiplied.

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Speaker 1: It seems see, you just can't stop asking questions. Once

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Speaker 1: you start thinking about black holes, the questions just proliferate.

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Speaker 7: What do you think it's captured the imagination of not

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Speaker 7: just our listeners, but it seems like everyone out there

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Speaker 7: has questions about black holes.

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Speaker 1: I think it's just the opportunity to see something hidden,

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Speaker 1: to learn something new.

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Speaker 8: You know.

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Speaker 1: The thing that captivates me about the black hole is

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Speaker 1: knowing that one of the greatest mysteries in modern physics.

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Speaker 1: How to reconcile crazy intense gravity and quantum little particles,

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Speaker 1: how to bring those together into one idea is out there,

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Speaker 1: and it's hidden inside a black hole. So if we

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Speaker 1: could only peek inside, we could learn the very nature

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Speaker 1: of space and time. There's so much we could know

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Speaker 1: about the universe if only we could see inside a

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Speaker 1: black hole. And yet it's hidden from us. So it's

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Speaker 1: sort of like somebody saying, I have the secrets you want,

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Speaker 1: and they're written on this envelope and I'm gonna earn it.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna throw it in the fire instead of opening

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Speaker 1: it to you.

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Speaker 7: That would kill you.

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Speaker 1: Oh man. If it's so frustrating to know the answers

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Speaker 1: are out there and not be able to get them,

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Speaker 1: that's very frustrating.

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Speaker 7: If you throw a big red button into that envelope,

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Speaker 7: that would drive you doubly crazy. But all right, let's

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Speaker 7: jump into Levi's questions here. The first one is how

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Speaker 7: do you calculate the mass of a black hole? Now,

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Speaker 7: I'm guessing Dan Or there are not gigantic scales we

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Speaker 7: can use to measure the mass of a black hole.

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Speaker 1: Sort of if we can, Yeah, the scales work my

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Speaker 1: using gravity. Right, If you put something on a scale,

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Speaker 1: you're measuring its weight, and its weight is the force

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Speaker 1: of gravity on it, which is determined by its mass.

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Speaker 1: And so to measure the mass of something you can

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Speaker 1: use the strength of the gravitational pull on it, which

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Speaker 1: depends on the object's mass. Now, out there in space,

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Speaker 1: your arth, there's not some like massive scale we can

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Speaker 1: put it on, but we can see how the black

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Speaker 1: hole tugs on things around it which are visible, and

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Speaker 1: that's one way we can measure its mass.

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Speaker 7: I so you can see the effects of its mass

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Speaker 7: on the things around it. I guess kind of like

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Speaker 7: our Sun, right, Like if our Sun with a different mass,

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Speaker 7: like if it was bigger or smaller than our orbit

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Speaker 7: around it would be different. Right, Like you could tell

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Speaker 7: what the mass of the Sun is maybe from our orbit.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, if you measure just the velocity and location of

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Speaker 1: the Earth as it moved around the Sun, you can

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Speaker 1: deduce exactly the mass of the Sun because you could

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Speaker 1: tell what gravitational force is necessary to move the Earth

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Speaker 1: in that path, and that would tell you how much

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Speaker 1: mass you need to provide that gravitational force. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: the Earth is like a little scale that's measuring the

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Speaker 1: Sun all the time.

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Speaker 7: But what do you need to know the mass of

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Speaker 7: the Earth too? Pretty accurately?

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Speaker 1: Yes, absolutely, you need to know the mass of the Earth.

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Speaker 7: And don't say you just use the sun, because then

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Speaker 7: now we're in a circular argument.

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Speaker 1: No, you need to use the mass of the Earth. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: The mass of the Earth you can get using like

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Speaker 1: your knowledge of what it's made out of and its volume.

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Speaker 1: So if you know the radius of the Earth, like

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Speaker 1: its size, and you're understanding roughly what it's made out of,

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Speaker 1: then you can tell its mass, or you can boot strap.

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Speaker 1: You can say, well, I'm going to look at the

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Speaker 1: moon and see how the moon moves around the Earth,

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Speaker 1: and that's going to tell me the mass of the

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Speaker 1: Earth if again you know the mass of the moon.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and sell on and so on. I guess at

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Speaker 7: some point, maybe the question is at some point when

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Speaker 7: do you have to guess? Right, Because at some point

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Speaker 7: you have to guess what the moon is made out

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Speaker 7: of or even the Earth you kind of have to guess.

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Speaker 7: I mean, we have some measurements, but we ultimately you're

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Speaker 7: sort of guessing what's inside the Earth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in the end, you do need to know the

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Speaker 1: mass of one of the objects to measure the mass

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Speaker 1: of the other. But there's also some constraints there, Like

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Speaker 1: what you really need to know is the product of

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Speaker 1: the two masses, right, mass one times mass two. So

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Speaker 1: if you make enough measurements of pairs of objects, then

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Speaker 1: you can narrow that down. You get like enough systems

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Speaker 1: of equations that you can constrain it. But yeah, you

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Speaker 1: also do need to say something about what they are

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Speaker 1: made out of to get some information about how much

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Speaker 1: mass one of them has. You can also measure the

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Speaker 1: mass of the Earth by flipping that around and saying, here,

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Speaker 1: I have an object whose mass I know, and that

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Speaker 1: can measure the gravitational effect on it, and from that

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Speaker 1: I can measure the mass of the Earth. Build like

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Speaker 1: a calibration object, like a test object, like a one

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Speaker 1: kilogram pound of platinum or something.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, you can see how much it pulls on like

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Speaker 7: a known weight, and then that's how you would estimate

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Speaker 7: the mass of the Earth.

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Speaker 1: And that's just sort of definitional. You say, like, this

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Speaker 1: is the definition of a kilogram this object, and from

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Speaker 1: that you can measure essentially the ratio of its mass

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Speaker 1: to the mass of the Earth. You can say how

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Speaker 1: massive is the Earth in terms of this object I'm

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Speaker 1: defining to be one kilogram, and then you can boot

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Speaker 1: strap your way up to the Sun and basically everything

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Speaker 1: else in the universe.

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Speaker 7: Right, you can strap your bood. You can boot your strap.

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Speaker 7: But what about for like a black hole? I mean,

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Speaker 7: they're so far away, we've barely seen one directly. You know,

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Speaker 7: we can see the things flying around it, But how

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Speaker 7: do we know what those things are? I mean, they're

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Speaker 7: just like bright little pinpoints, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So one way we can see the black holes

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Speaker 1: exist is by seeing their gravitational effect on stuff nearby.

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Speaker 1: Because black holes, of course are black, they don't admit

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Speaker 1: any radiation directly, or if they're emitting hawking radiation, then

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Speaker 1: we can't see it. It's too faint. So you're right,

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Speaker 1: we need to know them mass of the objects nearby.

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Speaker 1: And so, for example, the black hole the center of

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Speaker 1: our galaxy has some stars whizzing very close by to it,

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Speaker 1: and we can measure the mass of those stars by

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Speaker 1: looking at the light they emit. Because we have a

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Speaker 1: pretty good model for how the brightness of a star

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Speaker 1: is related to its mass. So we did a whole

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Speaker 1: episode on how you measure the mass of stars. And

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Speaker 1: that's not perfect, it's not exact, but it's pretty good, right.

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Speaker 7: It's based on like models and some observations, and so

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Speaker 7: just from the light that you get from those stars

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Speaker 7: around the black hole, you can say, well, that's a

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Speaker 7: stage so and so star weighs about the usually wait

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Speaker 7: about this much, and so therefore, and it's curving around

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Speaker 7: the black hole this much. So therefore that black holes

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Speaker 7: probably this many kilograms exactly.

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Speaker 1: And those models are pretty good, and we validate them

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Speaker 1: using binary star systems, where we can see two stars,

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Speaker 1: we can measure their brightness, and we can see how

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Speaker 1: they move around each other, and so we can really

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Speaker 1: validate those models pretty well. I mean, there are uncertainties,

356
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Speaker 1: but we can trust those because remember there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of binary star systems out there in the universe,

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Speaker 1: many more than you might expect. So that lets us

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Speaker 1: measure the mass of the stars and from that deduce

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Speaker 1: the mass of the black hole. Because remember, black holes

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Speaker 1: don't emit any information from their inside except for the

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Speaker 1: total mass of the black hole, which can be deduced

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Speaker 1: by its gravitational effect. That's the only information that comes

364
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Speaker 1: out other than the black holes spin and charge.

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Speaker 7: And also do you have to account for like the

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Speaker 7: camera adding ten pounds, like does a telescope at you know,

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Speaker 7: ten million kilograms?

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Speaker 1: No, the black hole's agent is very particular by the

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Speaker 1: cameras we used to take their pictures.

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Speaker 7: I see these is doubles when it's taking the naked pictures.

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Speaker 1: I said, take a profile above the accretion disk. That's

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Speaker 1: when it looks good, all right.

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Speaker 7: And there's also sort of a different way to measure

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Speaker 7: the mass of a black hole, which is by looking

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Speaker 7: at its size. Like if we ever do get better

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Speaker 7: pictures of a black hole, you might be able to

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Speaker 7: tell how heavy it is by just seeing its size, right,

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Speaker 7: Because the size of the event horizon depends on the

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Speaker 7: mass of the black hole.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're very closely connected. As the black hole eats

381
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Speaker 1: more and gets more mass than it is gaining in size,

382
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Speaker 1: the size of the event horizon is growing, and so

383
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Speaker 1: if you could measure the event horizon, then you could

384
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Speaker 1: deduce its mass. Measuring the event horizon is tricky though,

385
00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,200
Speaker 1: because you need to see photons like whizzing around it.

386
00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,639
Speaker 1: So you need a direct picture. And we've done that

387
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,600
Speaker 1: for one maybe two black holes now, but it's much harder, obviously.

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Speaker 7: And so that brings us to the second question leave

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Speaker 7: I had, which is like, if I'm trying to check

390
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Speaker 7: out a black hole, like, could I tell where the

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Speaker 7: actual event horizon is? Like, at what point do you

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Speaker 7: want to make sure you turn around before you get

393
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Speaker 7: sucked in forever?

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Speaker 1: Well, I would say turn around now, do not take

395
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Speaker 1: that trip to the black hole. It's not a good idea.

396
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Speaker 7: Don't even buy the tickets. That's when you should turn around.

397
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Speaker 1: Right, So it is a good idea to think about

398
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Speaker 1: where a black hole begins, where it's event horizon is,

399
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Speaker 1: so that if you are a billionaire scientist, entrepreneur and

400
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,800
Speaker 1: you do take that trip to the center of the

401
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:51,600
Speaker 1: Milky Way to study the black hole, you know when

402
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,360
Speaker 1: to turn around. And one thing you could do, if

403
00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,240
Speaker 1: you know the mass of the black hole is, you

404
00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:57,960
Speaker 1: could just calculate it. You could say, well, I know

405
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Speaker 1: how massive it is, so I know the point of

406
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Speaker 1: no return. I can calculate the event horizon.

407
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,159
Speaker 7: So, yeah, there's a point at a distance from the

408
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,400
Speaker 7: center of the black hole at which not even light

409
00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:10,000
Speaker 7: can escape, right. I think maybe that's what Levi is asking,

410
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Speaker 7: Like what's the point where not even light can escape.

411
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,679
Speaker 7: That's the event horizon, and from a distance you can

412
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Speaker 7: sort of see it, right, Like, it's sort of where

413
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,320
Speaker 7: when you look at a black hole, and we've looked

414
00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,600
Speaker 7: at one, it looks like a big black circle, and

415
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,360
Speaker 7: so that's generally where the event horizon is, although it's

416
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Speaker 7: not exact right.

417
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Speaker 1: That's right, the black circle you see when you look

418
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Speaker 1: at a black hole is actually bigger than the event

419
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,879
Speaker 1: horizon because you can't see photons that like fly just

420
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Speaker 1: above the event horizon from behind the black hole. Those

421
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,439
Speaker 1: we get curved and fall into the black hole. So

422
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Speaker 1: there's the event horizon itself, and then there's like a

423
00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:46,879
Speaker 1: shadow that the black hole makes that's even larger than

424
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Speaker 1: the event horizon. You can get closer than the shadow,

425
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,199
Speaker 1: you see it looks bigger than it actually is. And

426
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Speaker 1: as you get closer and closer to the black hole,

427
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Speaker 1: that shadow grows and it grows to take over more

428
00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:00,320
Speaker 1: and more of your view. So if you're very close

429
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:02,439
Speaker 1: to the black hole, for example, then it might appear

430
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Speaker 1: to take up like half of your entire view.

431
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,760
Speaker 7: Right. That's kind of the tricky thing about black holes

432
00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,480
Speaker 7: is that there's so much distortion around them that you

433
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:13,160
Speaker 7: know from afar they look like a nice clean circle.

434
00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,800
Speaker 7: But as you get closer, everything gets distorted and kind

435
00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:18,879
Speaker 7: of blown out of proportion, and so it's going to

436
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,919
Speaker 7: be really hard to tell when you've reached the actual

437
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,640
Speaker 7: event horizon, right, because, like you're saying, the black hole

438
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:26,320
Speaker 7: is going to start taking a bit more and more

439
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,520
Speaker 7: of your field of view, and you're going to be like,

440
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:29,520
Speaker 7: am I in or am I out?

441
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:31,840
Speaker 1: I don't know, yeah exactly, And so this is very

442
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,000
Speaker 1: dangerous not to be recommended or endorsed. But as you

443
00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:36,960
Speaker 1: get closer and closer to the black hole, the image

444
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,600
Speaker 1: of it grows larger and larger, and as you say,

445
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:42,800
Speaker 1: what you're seeing is not anymore a good representation of

446
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,720
Speaker 1: what's actually there. Like when you look around yourself in

447
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,440
Speaker 1: your room, the stuff you see is the stuff that's there,

448
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,560
Speaker 1: because the light is moving in a straight line from

449
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,439
Speaker 1: whatever it is to your eyes, and so you can

450
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,560
Speaker 1: look around and say, oh, that's over there, and this

451
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,119
Speaker 1: is over here. But if there are like lenses around

452
00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,520
Speaker 1: you that bend the light, then you get distorted images

453
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,439
Speaker 1: and you're in a funhouse mirror. What you see is

454
00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 1: not what's actually there, and that's what's happening with the

455
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,439
Speaker 1: black hole. Light is no longer following straight lines, so

456
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 1: what you see is a distortion. And it's really interesting.

457
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 1: As you get closer and closer to the black hole

458
00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:14,919
Speaker 1: than the shadow of the black hole, this big black

459
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,680
Speaker 1: image of the event horizon gets larger and larger. Eventually

460
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,600
Speaker 1: it becomes more than just half of your view. It

461
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,119
Speaker 1: takes up most of your view, and the rest of

462
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 1: the universe is squeezed down into a smaller and smaller circle.

463
00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 1: And you can get a clue about when you're about

464
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,399
Speaker 1: to cross the event horizon, because when you cross the

465
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 1: event horizon, that circle that is the rest of the

466
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 1: universe is now shrinking down to a tiny little dot.

467
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 1: And once you fall inside the event horizon, then the

468
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,960
Speaker 1: rest of the universe is now exactly one tiny little

469
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,520
Speaker 1: point where light from the universe can still reach you.

470
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,520
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's a pretty trippy experience and pretty extreme. And actually,

471
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,040
Speaker 7: if you want to know more about this, it's conveniently

472
00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,720
Speaker 7: a question we answer in our new book. Right Daniel

473
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:56,679
Speaker 7: frequently ask questions about the universe.

474
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 1: That's right, This is a frequently asked question. What would

475
00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,880
Speaker 1: it be like to fall into a black hole, And

476
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:03,720
Speaker 1: the book is a lot of fun. It's out on

477
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 1: November two, twenty twenty one. You can check it out

478
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,040
Speaker 1: at universe faq dot com. It's filled with answers and

479
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,719
Speaker 1: a bunch of really awesome cartoons that Wore drew. They

480
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 1: give you a sense for what it would look like

481
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:15,920
Speaker 1: to fall into a black hole.

482
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, order a copy for yourself, for your nieces and nephews,

483
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 7: uncles and best friends. But we do sort of go

484
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:23,879
Speaker 7: into a lot of details because there are a lot

485
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 7: of details about going into the black hole, and I'm

486
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,000
Speaker 7: not sure we can cover all of them. So please

487
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 7: check out the book if you are actually that curious,

488
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,200
Speaker 7: because there are a lot of complications, like not only

489
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 7: does the black hole take up your whole field of view,

490
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,840
Speaker 7: but also like it's possible for you to get inside

491
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 7: a black hole without getting stretched into spaghetti. It sort

492
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,879
Speaker 7: of all depends on these details about the mass of

493
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:45,480
Speaker 7: the black hole.

494
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,400
Speaker 1: Right, That's right, So if you're interested in that, dig

495
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,439
Speaker 1: into that copy of that book and let us know

496
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,040
Speaker 1: if you have any follow up questions.

497
00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 7: All right, So, the basic answers for Levi is you

498
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:57,360
Speaker 7: can calculate the mass of a black hole by how

499
00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:59,760
Speaker 7: the things around it are moving. And also when do

500
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 7: you need to turn around when you visit a black hole?

501
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,439
Speaker 7: Before you visit a black hole, when you need to turn.

502
00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:08,400
Speaker 1: Around right exactly before you start searching Airbnb for black

503
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:09,360
Speaker 1: hole opportunities.

504
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:14,600
Speaker 7: Yeah, don't believe those pictures. They distort the space inside

505
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,400
Speaker 7: of the airbnbs. All right, let's get into our two

506
00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,399
Speaker 7: other listener questions about black holes. One of them is

507
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,399
Speaker 7: about mini black holes and the other one is about

508
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 7: dark matter. But first, let's take a quick break.

509
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,840
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549
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558
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Speaker 1: of cheese into your mouth or enjoy a rich spoonful

559
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: of Greek yogurt, you're probably not thinking about the environmental

560
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: impact of each and every bite. But the people in

561
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Speaker 1: the dairy industry are US Dairy has set themselves some

562
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 1: ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse gas neutral by twenty

563
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Speaker 1: to fifty. That's why they're working hard every day to

564
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Speaker 1: find new ways to reduce waste, conserve natural resources, and

565
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 1: drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water, for example, most

566
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: dairy farms reuse water up to four times the same

567
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Speaker 1: water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes the barn, and

568
00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,360
Speaker 1: irrigates the crops. How is US Dairy tackling greenhouse gases.

569
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 1: Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn the methane from

570
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571
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Speaker 1: electric cars. So the next time you grab a slice

572
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Speaker 1: of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know that

573
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Speaker 1: dairy farmers and processors around the country are using the

574
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575
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Speaker 1: products we love with less of an impact. Visit usdairy

576
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

577
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:12,280
Speaker 7: All right, we're answering questions about black holes from listeners

578
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 7: and you get a lot of questions about black holes.

579
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 1: I do. I have a lot of questions about black holes.

580
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: I read a lot about black holes, and we get

581
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: lots of questions from listeners about black holes because everybody

582
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 1: wants to know what's going on.

583
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 7: I see. And what proportion of the questions you get

584
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 7: do you actually know the answer?

585
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: Well, I have a wonderful backup, which is if I

586
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 1: don't know the answer, I just send them a link

587
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,640
Speaker 1: to our book we have no idea and say that's

588
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: the answer. Go buy a copy of the book.

589
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 7: Oh boy, you're plugging away today.

590
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: I'm plugging away. But also, I think people like to

591
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: hear that the question they've asked is not one that

592
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: has an answer. Of course, people would like to know

593
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,480
Speaker 1: the answer, but it's also satisfying to feel like, oh,

594
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: I'm at the forefront of human knowledge. I have questions,

595
00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 1: just like Kip Thorn has questions, or just like Barry

596
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: Barrish has questions. These Nobel Prize winners who also don't

597
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,600
Speaker 1: understand what's going on inside a black hole, welcome to

598
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: the club.

599
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,119
Speaker 7: They're curious about black holes club. All right. So our

600
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 7: second question is from Tim and he has a question

601
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 7: about mini black holes.

602
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 9: Hello, Daniel, Jay, and Katie. I've got a question about

603
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,159
Speaker 9: mini black holes. If you were to have some super

604
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:20,600
Speaker 9: large hadron collider and create miniature black holes that immediately

605
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 9: disappear with Hawking radiation, how would you detect that Hawking radiation?

606
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 9: And what would you learn since all the information other

607
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 9: than the mass of the black hole is essentially destroyed?

608
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 4: Curious about the answer?

609
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 7: Juets all right, awesome question here. There's a lot in

610
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 7: this question. There's the idea of mini black holes, there's

611
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 7: the idea of Hawking radiation, and he asked about quantum information.

612
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,240
Speaker 1: I know so many good questions and so many fun

613
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 1: opportunities to learn about black holes by creating them particle colliders.

614
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 7: All right, so let's dig into it. Daniel, what is

615
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 7: a Meni black hole? I guess it's just a small

616
00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 7: black hole. Are those possible? How do you make them?

617
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 1: Yeah? Black holes can come in almost any size. There

618
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 1: is an absolute minimum size to a black hole, but

619
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: it's pretty small. You can make a black hole that's

620
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,680
Speaker 1: the size and the galaxy. You can make a black

621
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: hole that's like, you know, the size of a particle.

622
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: Almost The crucial thing is not the mass, it's the density.

623
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: If you compact enough stuff into a small enough space,

624
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: then you can create a black hole. It's this combination

625
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: of mass and radius. You know, for example, if you

626
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: took the Earth, you could compact it into a peanut

627
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 1: and that would be a black hole. So the mass

628
00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 1: of the Earth is enough to make a black hole,

629
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 1: it's just not dense enough. And so you can make

630
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 1: many black holes by pouring enough energy or enough mass

631
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: into a small enough space.

632
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 7: And that's what you do at the large Hadron collider. Right,

633
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 7: you think you're making mini black holes, or you know

634
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 7: you're making mini black holes.

635
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: We hope we're making mini black holes. We haven't yet

636
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: seen any, but that is exactly what we do at

637
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 1: the Hadron collider and at ery collider, is that we

638
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: pour a lot of energy into a very small space

639
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: and we let the universe decide what comes out. We

640
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:02,160
Speaker 1: take advantage of the quantum canical nature, the probabilistic nature

641
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: of the rules of physics that say, if you have

642
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: a little ball of energy there, it can basically turn

643
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: into anything. It might turn into some new particle you

644
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: haven't seen before. It might turn into a black hole.

645
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 7: Right, And so you sometimes you get enough energy packed

646
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,480
Speaker 7: into such a small space that you make a many

647
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,320
Speaker 7: tiny black hole about the size of like a particle.

648
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 7: And so those are actually black holes, just like the

649
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 7: ones at the center of the galaxies. They're just really,

650
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 7: really small, and something special happens to them, right. They

651
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 7: don't last very long.

652
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: That's right. And so to be clear, we have not,

653
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: to our knowledge made any of these black holes. We

654
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: have not seen any. It's a hypothetical. It's a theoretical

655
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: idea that perhaps it's possible to make these black holes

656
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,680
Speaker 1: by colliding particles together, and so we are looking for them.

657
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 1: And the thing you have to understand about many black

658
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: holes is that they don't last very long. Like big

659
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: black holes can last for billions of years as they

660
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,719
Speaker 1: keep eating stuff. But all black holes emit radiation. They

661
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: don't actually keep all their information inside. They leak a

662
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: little bit of mass all the time. It's called hawking radiation.

663
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: And this happens faster if you're a small black hole.

664
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: So a big black hole hardly emits any hawking radiation.

665
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,840
Speaker 1: It can last for a long time. A little black

666
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 1: hole will very rapidly evaporate by giving away all of

667
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: its mass. In terms of hawking radiation. So the smaller

668
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 1: the black hole is, the quicker it disappears, which is

669
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: actually good because you want your black holes to evaporate

670
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: rather than growing and gobbling up the earth.

671
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 7: All right, So then the tiny black holes evaporate quickly.

672
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 7: And the question I guess is can you detect that

673
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 7: hawking radiation? And what would you learn from it?

674
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, so these black holes, if you made them, they

675
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: would basically explode almost instantaneously. The kind we're talking about

676
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 1: making it the large Hadron collider would last from like

677
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 1: ten to the minus twenty seven seconds, and they would

678
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: just emit a bunch of hawking radiation. But what is

679
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: that hawking radiation? And how would you see it? The

680
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 1: cool thing about black holes is that they couple gravitationally, right,

681
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: They're connected to everything that has mass. They don't care

682
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: about things electric charge or strong charge or weak charge,

683
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: so they're sort of democratic. They turn into like all

684
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 1: kinds of particles with basically equal probability, And so that

685
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: means that what you would see is just a huge

686
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: spray of a bunch of different particles, like a huge

687
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: explosion at the center of your detector with a lot

688
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: more energy than you would typically see.

689
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 7: I see, but you're eagerly like to see like an

690
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 7: electron or a proton or a muon kind of right.

691
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,479
Speaker 7: I mean, depending on how much energy they have, they

692
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 7: might be more probable, but there's no constraint about what

693
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 7: particular particles you'll see, that's what you're saying.

694
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, And because the particles that feel the strong force,

695
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: like quarks and gluons, have so many more varieties because

696
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 1: for example, for the upcork, there's the red upcork, the

697
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: green upcork, and the blue upcork, whereas the electron doesn't

698
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 1: feel that and so it only has one version. That

699
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: means there are more versions of quarks and gluons. So

700
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: you're more likely get to get quarks and gluons than

701
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: electrons and muons, just because there are more of those.

702
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: And black holes are democratic, so most likely what you're

703
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,360
Speaker 1: going to see is a big spray of quarks and

704
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: gluons that fly out, and quarks and gluons we don't

705
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: see those directly because quarks and gluons can't be by themselves,

706
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: so instead each one turns into its own stream of particles.

707
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: So what does a black hole look like in our

708
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 1: detector at CERN, it looks like seven or ten streams

709
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: of particles all coming out of the center of the collision.

710
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 7: Well, I think the question that Tim had was like,

711
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,240
Speaker 7: could you learn or would you learn anything from that

712
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 7: stream of particles, And it sort of seems like you

713
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 7: wouldn't write because it'd just be a random spray of particles, right.

714
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, And this is a subtle point here because you

715
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: can't look at an individual collision that has like ten

716
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 1: of these sprays of particles and say that's a smoking

717
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: gun signature of a black hole, because there are other

718
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 1: ways for that to happen. Sometimes two protons collide and

719
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: you do get ten quarks flying out, which make ten

720
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,720
Speaker 1: of these streams of particles, So that does happen. So

721
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: we can't specifically say this was a black hole, that

722
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: was a black hole. All we can do is say, look,

723
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: we see more of these collisions that lead to ten

724
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: or twelve sprays of particles than we expected from non

725
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 1: black hole sources. So we can like statistically say we

726
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: think we're making black holes because we see more of

727
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: these weird kind of events than we can explain otherwise.

728
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: And this weird kind of event is just what we

729
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: expected to see from black holes. So we can't definitively

730
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: say a black holes created on Tuesday at four pm,

731
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: but we can't say over the last year, we think

732
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: we made ten of them.

733
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 7: Well, I see, you can't study like a particular mini

734
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 7: black hole. You can study kind of like a statistically

735
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 7: what's going on in your collider. But I think Tim

736
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 7: was sort of making the connection to this idea that

737
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,080
Speaker 7: we've talked about before, which is that inside of a

738
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 7: black hole, quantum information is destroyed. So does that mean

739
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 7: that when a mini black hole evaporates, there's no information

740
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 7: in the hawking radiation.

741
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is not something that we understand because we

742
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 1: think that quantum information can't be destroyed, and so we

743
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: wonder if somehow that hawking information does have encoded in

744
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: it the quantum information that went into the black hole.

745
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: And we had recently a fun podcast episode where we

746
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: talked about people who recently made a breakthrough about how

747
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: this might work as super fascinating, but it's not something

748
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 1: we understand very well. But the information's being destroyed in

749
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: a black hole is just about the particles that went

750
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: into it, which is like the two protons you smashed together,

751
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,200
Speaker 1: So you don't really care that much about that quantum information.

752
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: It's not like useful or interesting. But if you do

753
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 1: make black holes, you can learn something much more interesting

754
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 1: about the universe. You can gain like contextual information because

755
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: you can learn something about quantum gravity. If we make

756
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 1: black holes with a large Hadron collider, it means that

757
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: gravity is much stronger at very short distances than it

758
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: is at long distances. Something weird and different is going

759
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 1: on when two particles get really close together, their gravity

760
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 1: gets different, And that's a clue about maybe the whole

761
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: nature of space, about how many dimensions there are to

762
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 1: space itself.

763
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 7: Well, what do you mean, Like you would shoot things

764
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 7: together create mini black holes, and then you would see

765
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 7: how it interacts with the things around it. Like, can

766
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,840
Speaker 7: you actually get a sense of, you know, what happens

767
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,799
Speaker 7: as you get that close to mini black holes or

768
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 7: is it maybe hidden in the fact that you do

769
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 7: or do not get mini black holes.

770
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the fact that you make black holes, and

771
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: also their typical energy tells you something about how they

772
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: are made. You can't study an individual black hole or

773
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,400
Speaker 1: like put things near it or anything like that. But

774
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 1: one thing we are really curious about is why gravity

775
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 1: seems to be so weak. You know, gravity is so

776
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 1: much weaker than all of the other forces. Like we say,

777
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: often you can defeat the entire gravity of the Earth

778
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: by using a simple kitchen magnet to pull on a screw,

779
00:35:13,640 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: for example. So why is gravity so weak? It's not

780
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:20,720
Speaker 1: something we understand. One possible explanation is that maybe gravity

781
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: is so weak because it's leaking out. It's like getting diluted.

782
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,399
Speaker 1: Because there are other ways that you can move through

783
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: space other than the three we're familiar with. So these

784
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: are called extra dimensions. Like maybe space doesn't have just

785
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: three dimensions, maybe it has eleven or twenty six. But

786
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: only gravity can feel those, And so when you're far

787
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,040
Speaker 1: away from something, you're not really feeling it's true gravity

788
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,680
Speaker 1: because most of it's leaked out into these other dimensions.

789
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: But these other dimensions might be really really small and compact,

790
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 1: so if you get really close to something, you might

791
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,520
Speaker 1: feel it's like true strength of its gravity. So the

792
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: idea is if you smash two protons together and you

793
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: bring the really close together with enough energy, then then

794
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: might feel that strong gravity enough to make a black hole.

795
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: So the fact that you made the black hole would

796
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: tape you off that gravity is getting strong at short

797
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,879
Speaker 1: distances and maybe reveal something about the existence of those

798
00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:13,520
Speaker 1: other dimensions of space and time.

799
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 7: So you're saying that if you do make black holes

800
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 7: at the Large Hydron Collider, then maybe that points to

801
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 7: the existence of extra dimensions.

802
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,719
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, so we can't learn that much from one

803
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: black hole, but if we can prove that we have

804
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: been making them, then that suggests that there must be

805
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,919
Speaker 1: extra dimensions space and time. And the pattern in which

806
00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 1: they appear, like the energy that they come with, and

807
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:35,879
Speaker 1: how often we make them can give us a clue

808
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: as to how many dimensions are there and what radius

809
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: do they have, Because these aren't dimensions like the ones

810
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: we're familiar with, like x, y, and z that we

811
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: move around in. These are like little looped dimensions. They're

812
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: like move in a little circle, or they are only

813
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,640
Speaker 1: like a centimeter wide. They're really weird and strange dimensions.

814
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: But lots of theories of physics actually insist on having

815
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 1: more dimensions, like string theory.

816
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, and conveniently that's another topic we cover in our books.

817
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 7: But it sort of sounds like the answer for team

818
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 7: here is that we haven't detected any mini black holes

819
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 7: and you're in the colliders. But if you do create them, A,

820
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 7: you would see this big shower of sort of random particles,

821
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,719
Speaker 7: maybe mostly quarks, and b would point to the existence

822
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:17,840
Speaker 7: of extra dimensions.

823
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: That's right. That's one explanation. There are other theories that

824
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 1: also predict the creation of black holes, and so if

825
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: we did see them, the theorist would go crazy coming

826
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,439
Speaker 1: up with new ideas to explain our data. It would

827
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:30,720
Speaker 1: be very, very exciting. And for those of you nervous

828
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 1: about the safety aspect of this, don't worry. We've done

829
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,840
Speaker 1: all the calculations and we're confident we can't make black

830
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: holes big enough to eat the.

831
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 7: Correct That's good to know, always reassuring that you've done

832
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 7: the calculations and that you never make mistakes. Right, that's right.

833
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: We've never ever made a mistake that destroyed the earth. Right,

834
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: that's a pretty good track record.

835
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, so far zero for zero. All right, Well,

836
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 7: let's get into our last question about black holes from

837
00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 7: a listener, and this one has to do with dark matter.

838
00:37:57,880 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 7: But first, let's take another quick break.

839
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,640
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

840
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt. You're probably

841
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite,

842
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: but the people in the dairy industry are. US Dairy

843
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

844
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working

845
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

846
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

847
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

848
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,879
Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes

849
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US Dairy

850
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases. Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn

851
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 1: the methane from maneure into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

852
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 1: and electric cars. So the next time you grab a

853
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know

854
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 1: that dairy farmers and processors around the country are using

855
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,919
Speaker 1: the latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense

856
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: dairy products we love with less of an impact. Visit

857
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 1: US dairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

858
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,520
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859
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,680
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860
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861
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862
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863
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864
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,880
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865
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:32,759
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866
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867
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:39,520
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868
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:41,800
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869
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,440
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870
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871
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Speaker 5: called Earthquake House.

872
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 6: Mega Mango, I'm going to cut you off right there.

873
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 3: Why don't we just tell people about.

874
00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: Our show instead?

875
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a better idea. So every week on Fartime Genius,

876
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 5: we feed our curiosity by answering the world's most important questions,

877
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 5: things like when did America start dialing nine to one?

878
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 3: One?

879
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 5: Is William Shatner's best acting work in Esperanto? Also what

880
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 5: happened to Esperanto? Plus we cover questions like how Chinese

881
00:40:11,520 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 5: is your Chinese food? How do dollar stores stay in business?

882
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:17,879
Speaker 5: And of course is there an Illuminati of cheese? There

883
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 5: absolutely is, and we are risking our lives by talking

884
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 5: about it. But if you love mind blowing facts, incredible history,

885
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 5: and really bad jokes, make your brains happy and tune

886
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:28,760
Speaker 5: into Part Time Genius.

887
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 6: Listen to Part Time Genius on the iHeartRadio app or

888
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 6: wherever you get your podcasts.

889
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 4: Hi, I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which

890
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 4: recently hit the number one science podcast in America. I

891
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 4: mean neuroscientists at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring

892
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,360
Speaker 4: the three pound universe in our heads. We're looking at

893
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 4: a whole new series of episodes this season to understand

894
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,799
Speaker 4: why and how our lives look the way they do.

895
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 4: Why does your memory drift so much? Why is it

896
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 4: so hard to keep this secret? When should you not

897
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 4: trust your intuition? Why do brains so easily fall for magic?

898
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 4: Tricks and why do they love conspiracy theories. I'm hitting

899
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 4: these questions and hundreds more because the more we know

900
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 4: about what's running under the hood, the better we can

901
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,640
Speaker 4: steer our lives. Join me weekly to explore the relationship

902
00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 4: between your brain and your life by digging into unexpected questions.

903
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:30,279
Speaker 4: Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app,

904
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,239
Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

905
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 7: All right, we're answering questions from listeners about black holes

906
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 7: because they're so cool and mysterious and dark. And our

907
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 7: last question comes from one who has a question about

908
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 7: whether black holes can explain a little bit of missing mass.

909
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 6: If there is missing gravity in the galaxy, why can't

910
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 6: we attribute it to the black hole in the center

911
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 6: of it since we don't know it's mass.

912
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,160
Speaker 7: Hmm, interesting question. First of all, we're missing mass, Like,

913
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 7: do we misplace some mass in the galaxy?

914
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 1: Oops? I thought you were going to bring it home?

915
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:14,439
Speaker 1: Where is it?

916
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 7: Did the galaxy going a quick diet or something a

917
00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 7: go keto?

918
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: You look in great these days. Milky Way, Maybe it's

919
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,240
Speaker 1: like only two percent milky way or like little fat.

920
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 7: Milky Way, skim Milky Way. All right, so there is

921
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 7: a missing mass in the galaxy, right, I know this one.

922
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 7: It's like, if you measure how the stars in the

923
00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 7: galaxy are spinning around, they are spinning around faster than

924
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 7: they would be if there was only stars and planets

925
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 7: in the galaxy. Right, there's something else missing from the

926
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 7: mass of how we see the galaxy spinning.

927
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 1: Exactly, just like we were talking about. You can deduce

928
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: the mass that the Sun has to be to explain

929
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: the Earth's motion. You can do the same thing with

930
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,319
Speaker 1: the whole galaxy. Measure the motion of the stars and

931
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 1: from that deduce the mass of all the stuff that

932
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 1: has to be pulling on those stars to keep moving

933
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 1: in a circle. It's exactly the same strategy, right.

934
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 7: And this is kind of how people first started thinking

935
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 7: about dark matter, which is that they saw that the

936
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 7: galaxies were spinning faster than they would be if the

937
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:17,359
Speaker 7: stars were to stay in the galaxy, and so they hypothesized, like, hey,

938
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,319
Speaker 7: maybe there's some invisible mass. We'll call it dark matter,

939
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 7: and that's what's keeping all the stars in the galaxy.

940
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: I usually think about it the other direction. They measure

941
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 1: the velocity of the stars and they ask how much

942
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: gravity do you need to explain that motion to keep

943
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: the stars from flying out? And then they couldn't find

944
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 1: that much mass. They looked at all the stars and

945
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 1: all the dust and all the things they could see,

946
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 1: and it just didn't add up. It wasn't even close.

947
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: So that was a big puzzle.

948
00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 7: For decades, right, And so the idea of a lot

949
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 7: of invisible mass out there in the unarse is kind

950
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 7: of crazy. So a lot of people are like, are

951
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 7: you sure that sounds crazy? How do you know that

952
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:56,440
Speaker 7: maybe the black hole at the center of the galaxy

953
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 7: isn't just heavier than you think it is. Maybe that

954
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 7: would explain why the stars are not flying off into space.

955
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great question because it points to like

956
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: our uncertainty, like how do you know how massive those

957
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: stars are? And how do you know the other things

958
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: in the galaxy? Well do you know their mass? And

959
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,960
Speaker 1: so it's just like pointing at you know, other places

960
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: we could be making mistakes, which is a great scientific exercise,

961
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: like to go back and think, maybe we just misestimated

962
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,160
Speaker 1: the number of stars, or maybe we misestimated their mass,

963
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 1: or maybe it's all hiding at the center of the

964
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,520
Speaker 1: galaxy inside that black hole.

965
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, so the question is like, could a bigger black

966
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 7: hole at the center of the galaxy explain how all

967
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,440
Speaker 7: the stars are moving around the galaxy or does it

968
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:35,879
Speaker 7: have to be something like dark matter.

969
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: So there's sort of three answers, two knows, and then

970
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: maybe yes. So the first no is that we actually

971
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,439
Speaker 1: kind of do know the mass of the black hole.

972
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: It's the center of the galaxy. It's not just some

973
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,479
Speaker 1: huge cosmic knob that we can turn up and down

974
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: and say nobody knows, So we can just set it

975
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: to anything. As we talked about just a few minutes ago,

976
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: we can measure the mass of black holes by looking

977
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,320
Speaker 1: at the movement of stars near it. And the one

978
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: near the center of our milky Way is actually super

979
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: awesome because there's a star that gets really really close

980
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: to it, it whizes right by, it ends up going

981
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: super fast and allows us to make a pretty precise

982
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,399
Speaker 1: measurement of the mass of the black holes the center

983
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: of the milky Way.

984
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 7: I see, So there isn't like a mysterious black hole

985
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 7: at the center of the galaxy. There's one that we

986
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 7: can measure.

987
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've measured its mass pretty well and there's a

988
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:24,800
Speaker 1: bunch of stars moving around it. And this really awesome

989
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,279
Speaker 1: video you should watch. It took like decades to make

990
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: of them observing the black hole and seeing the motion

991
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: of the stars around it, and you can watch it

992
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 1: in time laps. You know, it took them twenty years,

993
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:35,840
Speaker 1: but you can watch the whole thing in twenty seconds,

994
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 1: and you can see these stars moving around some obvious,

995
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:43,040
Speaker 1: invisible object, like they're bending their path around what seems

996
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: to be nothing and therefore must be something.

997
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 7: Right, And it's pretty massive, I imagine, right, it's a pretty

998
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 7: massive black hole at the center of our galaxy.

999
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's pretty heavy. It has four point one million

1000
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:57,120
Speaker 1: times the mass of our star, so it's pretty hefty.

1001
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: And I just want to make a plug for UCLA

1002
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 1: that the Nobel Prize for these observations very recently. So

1003
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: go check out that video. It's pretty cool, but it's

1004
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:09,600
Speaker 1: a pretty massive black hole. But it can't explain all

1005
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:12,359
Speaker 1: of the dark matter number one, because we know it's mass.

1006
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 1: But number two also, it's in the wrong place to

1007
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: explain the dark matter.

1008
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 7: Right, Like, even if we didn't know the mass of

1009
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 7: the black hole at the center of the galaxy, like

1010
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,719
Speaker 7: even if we were wrong, one giant mass at the

1011
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 7: center of the galaxy wouldn't explain how all the stars

1012
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 7: are moving.

1013
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,920
Speaker 1: That's exactly right, because even if you increase the mass

1014
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: of the black hole to account for all the missing stuff,

1015
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,120
Speaker 1: it wouldn't give you stars moving the way our stars

1016
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: are moving. And that's because we can look at the

1017
00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: velocity of stars very close to the center of the

1018
00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: galaxy and the velocity stars further away from the center

1019
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 1: of the galaxy. So what we need is dark matter

1020
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: to explain all of those different velocities stars closer to

1021
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 1: the center and stars further from the center, and every

1022
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: star its motion tells you about how much mass is

1023
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,959
Speaker 1: sort of in a sphere that's closer to the center

1024
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: of the galaxy than it like, stars are not affected

1025
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: by stuff that further away from them, only by stuff

1026
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 1: that's closer to them. So as you look at stars

1027
00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:07,680
Speaker 1: as a function of their distance, you notice that you

1028
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: need a distribution of mass that sort of spread out

1029
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: through the galaxy. If you only put a huge blob

1030
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:14,719
Speaker 1: of mass at the very center, it would make the

1031
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:18,239
Speaker 1: stars near the core of the galaxy move way too fast, for.

1032
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:21,880
Speaker 7: Example, right right, Because that's kind of an interesting property

1033
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,319
Speaker 7: of mass. It's like, you know, if you're really far

1034
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,600
Speaker 7: away from it, you might as spoiled treat it as

1035
00:47:26,640 --> 00:47:29,399
Speaker 7: a like a dot. But if you're really close to it,

1036
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 7: then it does matter whether or not it's like diffused

1037
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 7: in a little tiny ball in the middle or in

1038
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:37,479
Speaker 7: a giant cloud that this actually sort of engulfs you.

1039
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,359
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, if you are inside of it, then you're

1040
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: only sensitive to the parts of it that are that

1041
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: closer to the Center's just like if you drill the

1042
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: hole inside the Earth and jumped inside, the force of

1043
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,759
Speaker 1: gravity on you would decrease as you got closer and

1044
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: closer because a lot of the stuff would now be

1045
00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: outside of your shell. You could ignore it, and when

1046
00:47:55,520 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 1: you get to the very center there would be no

1047
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 1: force of gravity, so you can no longer treat the

1048
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 1: Earth is like just a point particle was the mass

1049
00:48:01,960 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 1: of the Earth. So it's the same thing with the galaxy.

1050
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: In order to explain the velocity of stars, we have

1051
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 1: to distribute the mass in just the right way to

1052
00:48:09,280 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 1: make these stars go fast and these stars go a

1053
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: little slower. So the cool thing about this velocity measurement

1054
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: is that we're not only sensitive to the overall amount

1055
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 1: of missing mass, but also how it's distributed through the galaxy.

1056
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 7: Right. I like that analogy about the Earth because like,

1057
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 7: if you fall to the center of the Earth, and

1058
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:28,240
Speaker 7: you're at the center of the Earth, basically the Earth

1059
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,800
Speaker 7: is all around you and it's pulling you in every direction,

1060
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 7: so you're basically weightless right in the middle of the Earth.

1061
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no force of gravity at the center of

1062
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:35,560
Speaker 1: the Earth.

1063
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, And so the same would be with a galaxy.

1064
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,840
Speaker 7: Like if you're at the center of the galaxy and

1065
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 7: you would feel the dark matter pulling all around you,

1066
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 7: so you wouldn't feel this mass, But if you were

1067
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 7: out on the edge of the galaxy, you would feel

1068
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 7: the mass of the dark matter like it was a

1069
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:52,640
Speaker 7: point in the middle.

1070
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So imagine now a star that's very close

1071
00:48:55,840 --> 00:48:58,000
Speaker 1: to the center of the galaxy. If you took all

1072
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:00,240
Speaker 1: the dark matter and you put it inside the block,

1073
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: that would mean that that star is feeling all of

1074
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,000
Speaker 1: that gravity, would be moving really really fast. If instead,

1075
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: you took that dark matter and you spread it out

1076
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,239
Speaker 1: through the galaxy, then most of it wouldn't affect that

1077
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: star near the core, because, as you say, it would

1078
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: all be balanced out, it would all be on the

1079
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,000
Speaker 1: outside of it, it would be null. And so you

1080
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 1: can tell how it's distributed by looking at the velocity

1081
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:21,520
Speaker 1: of stars that are close to the center and then

1082
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 1: a little further away and a little further away. A

1083
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: distributed mass of dark matter makes a very different prediction

1084
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: than dark matter concentrated all at the core of the galaxy.

1085
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 7: All right, So then that's the answer. The answer is

1086
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,840
Speaker 7: that a black hole cannot explain the missing mass in

1087
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 7: the galaxies and the trajectory of stars. You kind of

1088
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,839
Speaker 7: need something large and diffuse, like how we think dark

1089
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 7: matter is.

1090
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 1: But there's also a possible yes maybe to his answer,

1091
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 1: which is that we don't think that all of the

1092
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 1: dark matter is in the black hole the center of

1093
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 1: our galaxy. But remember that we don't know what dark

1094
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: matter is, and there's a possibility that dark matter, though

1095
00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 1: it's spread out through the galaxy, might be a bunch

1096
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: of smaller black.

1097
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 7: Holes, right like primordial black holes.

1098
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 1: Right, Yes, black holes made in the very first few

1099
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: moments before there was even stuff and matter in the universe.

1100
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,040
Speaker 1: They could still be around and they could account for

1101
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 1: the dark matter. It's one of the theories that are

1102
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,240
Speaker 1: out there. It's maybe not the most common or highly

1103
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,879
Speaker 1: voted theory of dark matter, but it's still possible. It's

1104
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: still plausible, and we haven't figured out what dark matter is,

1105
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:24,320
Speaker 1: so it could just be a bunch of black holes

1106
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:25,760
Speaker 1: spread out through the galaxy.

1107
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 7: Well, that sounds a little horrifying to know, then, Like

1108
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 7: if you were flying through space, it's like riddled with

1109
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 7: minds kind of Right. You might be flying through space

1110
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 7: and there's a hole. You're flying through a cloud of

1111
00:50:36,160 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 7: little tiny black holes. That wouldn't be good for your spaceship, right.

1112
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 1: That would not be good for your spaceship. But you

1113
00:50:40,640 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 1: know it's eaten zero Earth's so far, so it must

1114
00:50:44,160 --> 00:50:44,880
Speaker 1: be pretty safe.

1115
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:46,320
Speaker 7: So far, zero out to zero.

1116
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:51,399
Speaker 1: No, we've been flying through the galaxy for billions of years, right,

1117
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,439
Speaker 1: and we have not yet run into a black hole.

1118
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 1: On the other hand, we don't know if there are

1119
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,080
Speaker 1: other planets out there that have fallen into primordial black holes,

1120
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: because if it had, we wouldn't see them. It's not

1121
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: really a great argument.

1122
00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 7: All right, Well, then the answer is that a black

1123
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 7: hole at the center of the galaxy wouldn't explain dark matter,

1124
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 7: but maybe dark matter is explained by little, tiny black

1125
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 7: holes everywhere.

1126
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 1: But it's great thinking one to try to come up

1127
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: with some other explanation for dark matter in terms of

1128
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 1: like the things we do know and our uncertainties about them.

1129
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:21,759
Speaker 1: It's a great way to exercise your brain and do

1130
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 1: physics and think about different hypotheses. So great idea.

1131
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 7: Cool. So those are three awesome questions about black holes. Dan,

1132
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 7: you do think we've done our job here to fill

1133
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 7: the black hole of questions about black holes a little bit?

1134
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,000
Speaker 1: Yeah. The problem is that the black hole questions just

1135
00:51:37,080 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: grow the more you feed them. The bigger it gets,

1136
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 1: the stronger it's pulled, the more we want to know.

1137
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: It's just kind of like science that way. The more

1138
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: we ask questions and get answers, the more questions we have.

1139
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, and hopefully we won't get stuck in them forever.

1140
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 7: At some point we'll get out of.

1141
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:52,520
Speaker 1: Them or maybe Inside the black Hole is a really

1142
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: wonderful book filled with the secrets of the universe and

1143
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 1: a cozy reading nook to enjoy it in.

1144
00:51:57,600 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, who doesn't love a good book about the universe?

1145
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,320
Speaker 7: Titled Frequently Asked Questions about.

1146
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 1: The You That's right, Hypothetically, at universe faq dot com.

1147
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:07,759
Speaker 7: You'll have to run an experiment to see if it's

1148
00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 7: in real website universe faq dot com. You might find

1149
00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 7: a black hole, or you might find a lot of

1150
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:14,280
Speaker 7: interesting knowledge.

1151
00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,760
Speaker 1: That's right and funny cartoon. So go check it out.

1152
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 7: Go be a scientist.

1153
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: Those of you who write in asking how can we

1154
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,480
Speaker 1: support the podcast, this is how you can support the podcast.

1155
00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: Please go out there and check out our book. We

1156
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 1: put a lot of energy and a lot of fun

1157
00:52:26,360 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: and a lot of love into it, and we hope

1158
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:29,040
Speaker 1: that you all enjoy it.

1159
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:31,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, and more importantly, it's also those of you wondering,

1160
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 7: like how can I tell my friends or my cousin

1161
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 7: or my uncle or my mom, Like how cool all

1162
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:38,960
Speaker 7: of this stuff is this book? I think it's a

1163
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:40,320
Speaker 7: great way into these topics.

1164
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: You think it's going to convert the physics skeptics out there?

1165
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 7: Aren't all physicists skeptics. I thought that was your thing,

1166
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 7: like that was your identifier.

1167
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:50,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, but some people are skeptics about physicists.

1168
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,839
Speaker 7: Their skeptic about skepticism, meta skeptics. All right, Well, please

1169
00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 7: go check it out and please send us more of

1170
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,359
Speaker 7: your questions. There is really fun to get and really

1171
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:00,920
Speaker 7: fun to answer on the podcast.

1172
00:53:01,000 --> 00:53:03,800
Speaker 1: That's right. Please don't hesitate right to us any questions

1173
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 1: you have about physics, except of course, homework problems. To

1174
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,320
Speaker 1: questions at Daniel Andjorge dot com.

1175
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 7: Hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us, See you

1176
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 7: next time.

1177
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:23,240
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

1178
00:53:23,320 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

1179
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1180
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. When you pop a

1181
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Speaker 1: piece of cheese into your mouth, you're probably not thinking

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Speaker 1: to learn more.

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Speaker 2: Hi everyone, it's me Katie Couric. You know if you've

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Speaker 2: been following me on social media. You know, I love

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Speaker 2: kitchen mustaves. Just sign up at Katiecurk dot com slash

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Speaker 3: Guess what will?

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Speaker 6: What's that mago?

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Speaker 5: I've been trying to write a promo for our podcast,

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Speaker 5: Part Time Genius, but even though we've done over two

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Speaker 5: hundred and fifty episodes, we don't really talk about murderers

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Speaker 6: I mean, we did just cover the Illuminati of cheese,

1207
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Speaker 6: so I feel like that makes us pretty edgy. We

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Speaker 6: also solve mysteries like how Chinese is your Chinese food?

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Speaker 6: And how do dollar stores make money? And then of

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Speaker 6: saying is everyone should be listening. Listen to Part Time

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Speaker 6: Genius on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts,