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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always so much

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Speaker 1: for tuning in. Let's give it up for our own

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Speaker 1: audio a tour Max Williams.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, it's all I got. That's the only or those others.

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Speaker 1: There's a great Frozen Peace commercial.

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Speaker 2: Frozen Pie's is good. Also the wait, maybe it was

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Speaker 2: Animaniacs parodying the Frozen Piece commercial where it was no, no,

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Speaker 2: it was he did a fish he did a fish

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Speaker 2: to commercial where he says crumb crisp coating and he

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Speaker 2: says it like it's like an outtake where it's orson

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Speaker 2: Wells like losing it, you know, talking about how I've

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Speaker 2: done Shakespeare Richard that I think I know I will

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Speaker 2: not say crub crisp coating. He also is the perfect

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Speaker 2: example of one of these like Thespian tour types that

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Speaker 2: is like definitely American, but it's just really drunk their

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Speaker 2: own kool aid enough that they become this sort of

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Speaker 2: like faux British thing. You know, it's it's fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember that? Do you remember that show? The

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Speaker 1: critic Criminally, Yeah, they've got a great Orson Wells bit

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Speaker 1: that talks to his commercials, And today we are going

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Speaker 1: to explore Orson's work, but maybe not in the way

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Speaker 1: you think. This is part two of our continuing series

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Speaker 1: on lost media. Shout out to our research associate, doctor Z.

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Speaker 3: I actually just want to jump in real quick, and

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Speaker 3: I want to say, I want to meet the guy

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Speaker 3: who does Orson Wells. So this one guy who does

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Speaker 3: basically every impersonation of Orson Wells in like a movie

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Speaker 3: or show or something like that. He's he plays Orson

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Speaker 3: Wells in Edwood tim Byrne movie. He's also the voice

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Speaker 3: of the Brain and Pinky of the Brain of course,

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Speaker 3: and like he's a bunch of things like like whenever

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Speaker 3: whenever you hear his voice, clock him, like he's in

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Speaker 3: an episode of like Rick and Morty. And so I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 3: that's him.

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Speaker 2: The voice of the Brain basically is Orson Wells exactly.

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Speaker 2: You know Orson Wells. He looms large. It makes sense,

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Speaker 2: you know, he really you know he we came from

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Speaker 2: a back background of broadcast, you know, with the was

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Speaker 2: it like the Mercury Theater or I forget exactly. He

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Speaker 2: had like a radio theater players company that he was

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Speaker 2: in charge of I think Mercury is right, but he

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Speaker 2: you know, obviously he had. War of the World was

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Speaker 2: a huge sensation, not necessarily in a good way. It

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Speaker 2: freaked people out. People were like literally kind of there

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Speaker 2: was a hysteria surrounding it, you know, with presenting it

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Speaker 2: as though or a legitimate broadcast of you know, invaders

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Speaker 2: from outer space. Ben, what do you think about that?

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Speaker 2: Is that like opportunistic, get kind of jacked up? Or

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Speaker 2: is it genius?

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Speaker 1: So this is I'm really glad you're bringing this up

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Speaker 1: because there is a lot of speculation about the veracity

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Speaker 1: of that story. It did people genuinely believe that Martians

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Speaker 1: were invading Earth when they heard this guy on the radio?

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Speaker 1: Apparently not Apparently that radio program, which was in nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty eight, did not touch off nationwide hysteria. But let's

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Speaker 1: not let the facts get in the way of a

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Speaker 1: heck of a story.

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Speaker 2: I was taken in.

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Speaker 1: Also, I don't know about you, guys, I'm super biased.

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Speaker 1: I dig Orson Wells so hard, mainly for the commercials,

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Speaker 1: but also very talented filmmaker. And today's stories not about

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Speaker 1: Citizen King. It's not about war. The Worlds. It is

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Speaker 1: about something called the Magnificet Amberson's which Noel I. I

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Speaker 1: think it's safe to say a lot of our fellow

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Speaker 1: listeners in the crowd today probably never heard of this film.

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Speaker 2: Well I may have included you in that this is

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Speaker 2: part two of our Lost Media series. And you know,

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Speaker 2: Max and I were talking right before you pop back

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Speaker 2: in man about you know a lot of hay being

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Speaker 2: made around certain movies having you know, certain pieces of

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Speaker 2: media having controversies around them. For example, the James Franco

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Speaker 2: Seth Rogan movie I believe it's called The Interview that

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Speaker 2: supposedly made Korea or North Korea really really angry because

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Speaker 2: they depicted you know, Kim Jong il or in it unfavorably.

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Speaker 2: They actually, like, I think, blow him up and it

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Speaker 2: shows his like head exploding like the Nazis and Indiana Jones.

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Speaker 2: But it turns out that it's kind of wasn't a

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Speaker 2: very good movie. And in this story today we're talking

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Speaker 2: about what Orson Wells was hoping would be a masterpiece

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Speaker 2: follow up to his legitimate masterpiece, Citizen Kane, which, by

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Speaker 2: the way, if you haven't Citizen Kane, and to your point,

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Speaker 2: actually you made. On our last episode about Snake Oil,

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Speaker 2: we talked about the book The Jungle, how certain books

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Speaker 2: and films from you know, bygone era kind of get

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Speaker 2: a reputation as being slow or sort of like old fashion.

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Speaker 2: Citizen Kane in so many ways does not feel like

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Speaker 2: a movie of its era. It feels completely modern in

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Speaker 2: a lot of ways, like and how they got these shots.

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Speaker 2: You know, there's so many innovations that he made with cinematography.

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Speaker 2: Really worth your time, so tall order to follow this up?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, perfect setup for a slump, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. Citizen Kane is a hard act to follow,

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Speaker 1: and with the magnificent air persons, Orson feels that he

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Speaker 1: has something to prove to the world. I'm not just

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Speaker 1: some one trick pony. So he tries to make this

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Speaker 1: other film and this studio RKO says, look, we're not

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Speaker 1: going to let this fly. The general audience that we

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Speaker 1: show movies to will find this. The word they used

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Speaker 1: was unpalatable. The test screenings, which were think back then

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Speaker 1: as well. The test screenings did not meet with good reactions,

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Speaker 1: and so the studio went into reshoots. They shot several

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Speaker 1: pivotal scenes again without Orson, Wells there, and then they

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Speaker 1: got another guy, Robert Wise, to oversee a complete re edit.

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Speaker 1: They went under the hood of the film. They changed

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff, and they released what we could

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Speaker 1: call The Magnificent Amberson's Light in July or.

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Speaker 2: Nineteen forty two. Yeah, and by the way, there's some

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Speaker 2: great names in the story, as there always are when

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Speaker 2: we're talking about old Hollywood, the golden age of cinema.

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Speaker 2: This was based on a Pulitzer Prize winning novel that

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Speaker 2: came out in nineteen eighteen of the same name, The

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Speaker 2: Magnificent Ambersons by Booth Arkington. I just wish it had

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Speaker 2: the third in there, you know, but we can just

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Speaker 2: insert that in our own imaginations. And I just want

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Speaker 2: to I was sort of starting a point earlier that

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Speaker 2: I sort of like, let fizzle. But the whole thing

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Speaker 2: about the movie, the interview, Yes, they made this whole

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Speaker 2: big to do, but oh my god, it's like it

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Speaker 2: was going to cause World War three, you know which.

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Speaker 2: Kim Jong Oohn was so angry at us for making

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Speaker 2: the It got pulled out of theaters. But ultimately it

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Speaker 2: just wasn't a very funny picture. It just didn't really

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Speaker 2: have the goods and what we're gonna see I think

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Speaker 2: in this discussion here is that the magnificent Amberson's in

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Speaker 2: even in Doris and Wells, you know, director's cut, masterful

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Speaker 2: version maybe just wasn't nearly as good a movie as

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Speaker 2: as Citizen Kane. And I think the story of like, Oh,

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Speaker 2: It's Lost Forever is somehow more intriguing than the actual

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Speaker 2: film might be.

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Speaker 1: I think that's a I think that's a good perspective,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's quite va. You know. Also, putting

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Speaker 1: magnificent in the title of anything is promising a lot.

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Speaker 1: It's making it a tall milkshake. At this time in

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Speaker 1: nineteen forty two or so, Wells is a big, big deal.

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Speaker 1: Everybody's talking about him in Hollywood. So he knows there's

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Speaker 1: a lot writing on his next film. And he finds

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Speaker 1: the story by Booth Tarkenton thanks to a nineteen twenty

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Speaker 1: five film called Pampered Youth. He's so impressed. He's over

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Speaker 1: the moon, he's inspired. He's just like knocking back frozen

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Speaker 1: peas and fish sticks and saying, I'm gonna adapt this story.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna make it a radio drama on CBS. The

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Speaker 1: RKO studio chief at the time, a guy named George

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Speaker 1: Schaeffer said, you know, well, if you're looking for your

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Speaker 1: next project, why don't you adopt this spy novel I

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Speaker 1: like Journey inter Fear by Eric Ambler. But Well said, nah,

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Speaker 1: not special enough. They went not They actually went through

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Speaker 1: a couple of different conversations about what his dex project

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Speaker 1: should be.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you know, he's sort of in this

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Speaker 2: blank check kind of situation where like Citizen King was

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Speaker 2: such a runaway success, it won you know, Best Picture

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Speaker 2: and all this stuff like it was it was huge,

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Speaker 2: it was odd, It is a difficult it's not. It was.

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Speaker 2: It was a very like ahead of its time film.

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Speaker 2: So I think it was more of maybe more of

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Speaker 2: a critical success than it was a financial success. So

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Speaker 2: he was definitely in this like a tour position. But

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Speaker 2: that's not the same as like having like a mega

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Speaker 2: mega mega mega mega runaway blockbuster smash where you can

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Speaker 2: literally do whatever you want for your next picture because

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Speaker 2: they want to retain you. He's already kind of got

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Speaker 2: this reputation for being a little bit tricky to work with,

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Speaker 2: a little bit willful, maybe not the best partner for

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Speaker 2: a studio, and he is not hearing this, they're pitching

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Speaker 2: him movies that they think would be you know, hits

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Speaker 2: like The Way to Santiago, right, the one you mentioned,

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Speaker 2: Journey into Fear. But he wants to do more of

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Speaker 2: a kind of a dramatic tale of manners and kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, like like a like what do you

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Speaker 2: call it, Like a familial drama kind of you know,

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Speaker 2: it sort of points to you know, flaws and cracks

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Speaker 2: in the American Dream and all of this stuff. You know,

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Speaker 2: Heady's ish stuff like but for the time, not super sexy,

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Speaker 2: not the stuff of blockbusters at all.

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Speaker 1: Right, And he's also we already see he's having some

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Speaker 1: difficulties negotiating stuff with the studios, with the holders of

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Speaker 1: the purse. But he does this radio adaptation runs about

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Speaker 1: an hour log. He loves it, and he wants to

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Speaker 1: do a video or film version of this. So he

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Speaker 1: gets his cast together and I think he has one

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Speaker 1: actor from the radio version, Ray Collins, returned for the

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Speaker 1: film version. And he starts gathering his crew just like

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Speaker 1: he's playing in a heist. He can't get his cinematographer

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Speaker 1: from Citizen Kane, a guy named Greg Toland, so he

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Speaker 1: hires a dude named Stanley Cortes, and he gets his

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Speaker 1: old composer from Citizen Kane, Bernard Herman, to help out.

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Speaker 1: And funny story this slight spoiler. When the studio approved

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Speaker 1: version of The Magnificent Amberson's comes out, our buddy Bernard

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Speaker 1: Herman is pissed. He contacts them and insists that the

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Speaker 1: studio take his name off of the credits. He says,

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Speaker 1: you have butchered my work. Remove me from this debacle.

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Speaker 2: I think it's so interesting. I guess I think of

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Speaker 2: Bernard Herman is being more associated with like Alfred Hitchcock,

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Speaker 2: and you know a lot of that like Psycho for example.

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Speaker 2: That's like a quintessential the vibe that you think of

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Speaker 2: when you think of Bernard Herman's work. But I guess

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Speaker 2: he must have just been like super already active like

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Speaker 2: in Hollywood, like before, you know, for for several decades

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Speaker 2: before the Hitchcock stuff that really hit. So super seasoned

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Speaker 2: guy already at this point. Who would command that kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, ask like listen, not just take my

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Speaker 2: name off of it. I wonder what they did. I

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Speaker 2: just I'm so intrigued, like how do you like? I

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Speaker 2: guess maybe it was with editing, or maybe they supplemented

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Speaker 2: it with other stuff for something to do with the

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Speaker 2: audio mix. I just I've got to wonder, you know,

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Speaker 2: with with the music. How they they they pissed him

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Speaker 2: off to that degree.

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Speaker 3: So I was looking up Bernard Herman just to get

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Speaker 3: his like, see what his career started. But I found this.

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Speaker 3: He was born maximillion Herman. Come on, now, you gotta

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Speaker 3: rock the maximillion.

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Speaker 2: That's all I want to say. I don't care about

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Speaker 2: the rest anymore.

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Speaker 1: Actually, fair as a bettiest, I support you.

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Speaker 2: Next.

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Speaker 1: So the the film itself is shot from two nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty one to January of nineteen forty two. It goes

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Speaker 1: two hundred thousand dollars over budget.

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Speaker 2: That's like you know, inflation calculator, that's millions. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and y at least maybe two millions. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And shout out to Vin Mikolek over at Sinophilia Beyond

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Speaker 1: where we're pulling a lot of this information. So things

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Speaker 1: were already kind of looking bad for the Magnificent Amberson's

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Speaker 1: and Noel had earlier mentioned that the test screenings were

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Speaker 1: not super auspicious. How much do we know about that?

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Speaker 2: Something in the neighborhood of I think seventy two negative

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Speaker 2: to fifty three positive cards, you know, I mean it's

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Speaker 2: basically like a focus group, you know, for a product

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Speaker 2: or for you know whatever. You fill out your little card,

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Speaker 2: you know, your exit interview kind of and that's actually

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Speaker 2: a lot more of us of an even relatively even

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Speaker 2: split than I would have expected. Like seventy two to

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Speaker 2: fifty three negative to positive doesn't indicate that it was

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Speaker 2: an outright failure. It's just the kind of thing like now,

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Speaker 2: of course, we have like Rotten Tomatoes where you can

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Speaker 2: truly see kind of where the split happens. And a

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Speaker 2: lot of times there will be movies that I love

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Speaker 2: that are just like divisive and they're like fifty to

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Speaker 2: fifty sometimes, you know, really great reviews to negative reviews,

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Speaker 2: and that was the case here. The people that liked

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Speaker 2: it that were positive were pretty overwhelmingly positive, and the

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Speaker 2: people that were you know, negative about it were absolutely

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Speaker 2: just hated it, thought it was trash. It reminds me

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Speaker 2: of a a really good clip of folks in I

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Speaker 2: guess La walking out of some of the early screenings

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Speaker 2: of David Lynch's eraser Head, where someone just like asked

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Speaker 2: them what you thought, and people either thought it was

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Speaker 2: brilliant and evocative and strange and just thrilling, or people

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Speaker 2: just didn't get it and thought it was trash.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you can't make a film for everybody. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's bad news for studios, but it is true. And

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Speaker 1: the issue was that the studio, the studio machine itself,

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Speaker 1: is not oriented toward creativity and art for art's sake.

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Speaker 1: They're bottom line kind of people, and they exercised their

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Speaker 1: legal rights to save their money. Back to that article

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Speaker 1: we mentioned just a second ago, there are three big

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Speaker 1: reasons why the studio took the magnificent Amberson's away from

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Speaker 1: orson Wells. First, he agreed that they would get the

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Speaker 1: last say on the final cut, so he thought this

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Speaker 1: was kind of like a gentleman's agreement, you know. He

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Speaker 1: thought this was just an olive branch and he was

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Speaker 1: being nice. He was convinced that he could stay in

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Speaker 1: control all the way from post production to the debut.

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Speaker 1: But after shooting, he was asked to go to Brazil

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Speaker 1: to make a documentary for what is it called the

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Speaker 1: good neighbor Policy of Uncle Sam during wartime, and he

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Speaker 1: thought his buddy Robert Wise would come with him and

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Speaker 1: that while he was in Brazil they could still be

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Speaker 1: working on The Magnificent Amberson's and editing. Unfortunately, that didn't happen.

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Speaker 1: Wise had to stay in the US, and pretty soon

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Speaker 1: Orson Wells was sidelined. He lost all creative control of

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Speaker 1: the film. The studio was terrified by those negative test

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Speaker 1: screenings you mentioned, and they went to Robert Wise and

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Speaker 1: they said, look, our boy is in Brazil. We need

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Speaker 1: someone at the helm of this ship. You need to

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Speaker 1: save us from this disaster.

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Speaker 2: Right, But wasn't it like, wasn't he intended to be

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Speaker 2: there with him or something like he was, but then

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Speaker 2: he couldn't because of the travel restrictions around war time. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so that would have made it easier for for Wells

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Speaker 2: to continue to exert, you know, supremacy over the process

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Speaker 2: of the editing, because I mean, like you know, typically

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Speaker 2: an editing process of a film, the director, you know,

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Speaker 2: the right, maybe not the writer always, but if the

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Speaker 2: writer and the director of the same person, they're going

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Speaker 2: to be in the room with the editor. It's part

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Speaker 2: of it. Like they're doing this kind of as a collaboration,

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Speaker 2: and this separation of the two of them, you know,

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Speaker 2: by literal you know, thousands of miles, and not to

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Speaker 2: mention a lack of like the immediacy of the kind

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Speaker 2: of communication that we have today with things like zoom

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Speaker 2: and screen sharing and all of that. Like working collaboratively

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Speaker 2: is obviously a lot easier. Supposedly there would be cables,

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Speaker 2: scents or wires sent by Wells with just pages and

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Speaker 2: pages and pages of editing suggestions, but it was a

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Speaker 2: whole lot easier for them to kind of ignore them.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yes, sorry, sorry, bud?

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Speaker 2: Sorry, have you we got out? You're breaking up there, buddy?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't, I can't hear.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: This is crazy because the studio ends up cutting forty

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Speaker 1: minutes from the film and they put in a pretty blase,

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Speaker 1: happy ending just to just to put a bow on

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Speaker 1: it and to help the audience walk away satisfied. The

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Speaker 1: problem is the ending does not fit the rest of

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Speaker 1: the film. It's as if the it's as if the

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Speaker 1: sci fi film Dark City, you guys remember that one,

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Speaker 1: of course, I love Dark City. It's as if Dark

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Speaker 1: City all of a sudden ended as a buddy comedy.

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Speaker 2: Well, speaking of Brazil, it reminds me of the incredible

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Speaker 2: Terry Gilliam film Brazil that has a director's cut ending

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Speaker 2: that is mega bleak and left up, and the one

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Speaker 2: that with the studio insisted on for the theatrical version

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Speaker 2: is completely different. And you know, I mean Gillium has

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Speaker 2: a history of clashing with studios in a very similar way,

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Speaker 2: you know, where his his like movies are re edited,

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Speaker 2: and you know, for example, he was also trying to

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Speaker 2: make like don Quixote for you know who else was

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Speaker 2: trying to make don Quixote for years? Orson well, you

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Speaker 2: know Orison Well's kind of eventually we'll get to this,

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Speaker 2: but he ends up getting a reputation for being like

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Speaker 2: someone that can't really see things through. He can't really

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Speaker 2: let go of projects. But he does finish this one,

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Speaker 2: and even with the medaling and all the stuff that

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Speaker 2: we're talking about, the movie makes a decent amount of

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Speaker 2: money on its opening and does get nominated for quite

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Speaker 2: a few Academy Awards. And I guess this is the time.

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Speaker 2: Let maybe I'm wrong, Right, when did Wizard of Oz

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Speaker 2: come out? That was like in the thirties, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: So this is the time where I guess it was

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Speaker 2: sort of like Dealer's choice as to whether your movie

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Speaker 2: was going to be in color or black and white,

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Speaker 2: because this was nominated for Best Black and White Cinematography,

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Speaker 2: and I guess I never really thought about that or

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Speaker 2: better sorry best Yes, both Best black and White Cinema

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Speaker 2: Zography and Best Black and White Art Direction. So this

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Speaker 2: would have been a time where I guess it was

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Speaker 2: up to the kind of creatives and probably the studio

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Speaker 2: as to whether you did your film and color. Obviously

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Speaker 2: cost would be part of it too, because to develop

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Speaker 2: color film would be more expensive.

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Speaker 1: Wizard of Oscar they've done thirty nine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, August twenty fifth, nineteen thirty nine, except for in

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Speaker 3: Green Bay, of all places, where it came out of

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Speaker 3: August tenth.

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Speaker 1: They know what they did anyway. So this thing also

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Speaker 1: doesn't vibe with the zeitgeist of the US at the time,

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Speaker 1: in the war years. This is not upbeat, it's not

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Speaker 1: very Hey, we can do it working together, you know.

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Speaker 1: It thematically clashes. So the studio exerts their influence and

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Speaker 1: releases it pretty quietly as a double billing. The other

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Speaker 1: film that gets released with the Magnificent Amberson's is a

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Speaker 1: comedy called Mexican Spitfire. Sees a ghost.

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Speaker 2: I just think that's the most like procedurally titled thing ever.

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00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:08,600
Speaker 2: It just sounds like stock character description of a thing

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Speaker 2: that happens, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: It's like the new film from leam Neeson. Leam Neeson

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Speaker 1: gets into a.

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Speaker 2: Fight, gets angry and.

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Speaker 3: Like GBT probably looks at that and it's like, wow,

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Speaker 3: that's corny.

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Speaker 2: Mexican spitfire sees a ghost. I really want to see this,

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Speaker 2: and I also do want to. I want to point

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Speaker 2: out I don't think any of the three of us

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Speaker 2: have seen the magnificent Amberson's. You know, we're talking about

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Speaker 2: lost media. We'll get to which part of this is

369
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Speaker 2: actually lost. You can see this. There are ways to

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Speaker 2: see it. I'm not quite sure if it's in its

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Speaker 2: original form or if it's like in you know, some

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Speaker 2: sort of like you know, kind of compromised version. We'll

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Speaker 2: get to that. But again, it does Okay, it gets nominated.

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Speaker 2: I don't believe it won any of those awards.

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Speaker 1: No, it's an honor to be nominated though. So we

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Speaker 1: also want to shout out excellent article that doctor Z

377
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Speaker 1: found by Haskell over on Criterion, and they have some

378
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Speaker 1: great writing on Criterion dot com. This is the Magnificent Amberson's.

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Speaker 2: What is and what.

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00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:09,160
Speaker 1: Might have been?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

382
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Speaker 1: All right, so the Magnificent Amberson's doesn't work out the

383
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Speaker 1: way that everybody wanted it to. They need a scapegoat

384
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Speaker 1: because that's how studios work. So Robert Wise kind of

385
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Speaker 1: becomes the fall guy. Even though he was super great

386
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 1: at editing Citizen Kane. Overnight people turned against him and

387
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 1: they said, we know Orson Wells is the business and

388
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 1: this Robbie wise guy, Robbie wise guy nice, This guy

389
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Speaker 1: has ruined a brilliant creative endeavor and a lot of

390
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Speaker 1: folks will also argue that Wells was betrayed by the

391
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Speaker 1: people he trusted. But if we're being objective, you know,

392
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Speaker 1: ultimately the audience is the arbiter of what they do

393
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Speaker 1: or don't enjoy, and we'll we'll never know right what

394
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Speaker 1: Orson Well's final vision for The Magnificent Amberson's would have been,

395
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Speaker 1: because we weren't old enough to be in the test screenings.

396
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Speaker 3: Also to point out, Mexican Spitfire turned out to be

397
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Speaker 3: a series of eight movies, so it is kind of

398
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Speaker 3: like they're like our plus movies comedies that they would

399
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Speaker 3: just kind of spit out.

400
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Speaker 2: Mexican Spitfire, sees Mongoose, Mexican spitfire in Space.

401
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 3: Yes, we got the Girl from Mexico, Mexican Spitfire, Mexican

402
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:45,240
Speaker 3: Spitfire out West, the Mexican Spitfire's Baby, Mexican Spitfire at Sea,

403
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 3: Mexican Spitfire Season Ghost, Mexican Spitfires Elephant, and Mexican Spitfires,

404
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 3: Blessed Event and these were all all these came out

405
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Speaker 3: between nineteen thirty nine in nineteen forty three.

406
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Speaker 2: This is amazing. I want to see some of these.

407
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Speaker 3: It really does remind me by the entire collection for

408
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Speaker 3: thirteen dollars.

409
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Speaker 2: Oh, I'm on it. It reminds me of like, you know,

410
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 2: what they did with the Leprechaun movies. You know, they

411
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,800
Speaker 2: obviously were highly highly inspired by Mexican Spitfire.

412
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Speaker 1: Of course, you know, and if you look at the

413
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Speaker 1: Criterion collection of the Leprechaun franchise, you can see that

414
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:21,640
Speaker 1: they're pretty upfront about that Mexican spitfire. Amazing American cinema,

415
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: it's up there with the Police Academy series and of

416
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Speaker 1: course Vibes.

417
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Speaker 2: But there is you know, there is a Criterion release

418
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Speaker 2: of The Magnificent Amber Sam's but it's it's missed, it's

419
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Speaker 2: conspicuously missing some footage. We're not talking about an entire

420
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Speaker 2: film that was lost history. We're talking about a portion

421
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Speaker 2: of the director's original vision. And then we're going to

422
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Speaker 2: get into what happened. And also there's a couple of

423
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Speaker 2: different versions of the story because one version sort of

424
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Speaker 2: leans on like studio malice, like the studio was angry

425
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Speaker 2: at Orson Well so they did him dirty and destroyed

426
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Speaker 2: his beautiful masterpiece. The other version, it's probably a little

427
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,639
Speaker 2: closer to the truth. It was just sort of a

428
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Speaker 2: procedural thing studios would do when they were done with

429
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Speaker 2: footage outtakes. They actually, you know, there was a lot

430
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Speaker 2: of silver in you know, the celluloid, that's what they

431
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 2: call it, the silver screen. They would you know, sell

432
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 2: the footage and reclaim the silver.

433
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,400
Speaker 1: And the ending of the Ambersons that you mentioned there,

434
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:27,879
Speaker 1: Nol that physical media was sold for silver, along with

435
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: all the other unused RKO footage. Their system was to

436
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,920
Speaker 1: sell leftover film after a movie had been out for

437
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: six months, so it was just another income stream for them.

438
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 1: And we know that Wells had his own print of

439
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 1: the film on thirty five millimeter. He gave it away

440
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,119
Speaker 1: to someone in while he was in Brazil. So right now,

441
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 1: as far as cinophiles and historians know, there are no

442
00:25:55,840 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 1: copies of the original one hundred and thirty two minute

443
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: but there's a bit of a conspiracy. There's a bit

444
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 1: of speculation that's somewhere out there in the hinterlands of

445
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: Brazil there's one copy and there's like one guy who

446
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: somehow hasn't sold it for silver.

447
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 2: Which isn't too far out of precedents, you know, Like

448
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,400
Speaker 2: I believe it was Fritz Lang's Metropolis that was found

449
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 2: in some obscure museum in South America, like the original

450
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 2: print of that. So I mean, these things have been

451
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 2: known to happen, you know. But again this is where

452
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 2: we're talking about the version that has the kind of

453
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 2: more dire ending that that the you know, was in

454
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: keeping with Wells vision as opposed to the recut and

455
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 2: reshot you know, ending that the studio insisted upon to

456
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 2: kind of more appease the general audiences and maybe would

457
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 2: not have gone for the dour kind of ending.

458
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,199
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and people were speculating about this for quite a

459
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:05,120
Speaker 1: long time. How can we find this original cut of

460
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 1: this film? The search continued, the speculation continued, until a

461
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: guy named Robert Carringer hits the scene. He has reconstructed

462
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 1: the Amberson.

463
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 2: This is cool.

464
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 1: Yeah. He releases this on Criterion LaserDisc in nineteen eighty six,

465
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: and the package when you buy it includes the script

466
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: with the writing out of the ending. You can see

467
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:36,879
Speaker 1: some of the deleted scenes courtesy of included storyboards, and

468
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 1: then you can also they did some really cool They

469
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: include fragments of that earlier film that inspired Orson Wells.

470
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 1: It's not the whole thing, but you can see snippets

471
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: of the silent version of Pampered Youth.

472
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty cool he was using the I guess

473
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 2: you call it like a continuity script, or maybe it's

474
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,360
Speaker 2: just a really detailed shooting script, you know that has

475
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,320
Speaker 2: descriptions of every shot, every frame. A truly good screenwriter

476
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 2: will literally describe what you are seeing in the end product.

477
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 2: If you've never had a chance to like read a

478
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 2: script for a film that you've enjoyed, it's worth it.

479
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: Like a really good example is you can find this

480
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 2: online if anyone's seen the film uncut Gems there's an

481
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 2: excellent sequence at the end do almost give anything away,

482
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: but that involves like sort of this like spacey kind

483
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 2: of like you know, journey through a bullet hole into

484
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 2: like you know, this crazy starry night sky thing. And

485
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 2: it's described verbatim, word for word, exactly what you see.

486
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 2: And it's really cool because that's another example of the

487
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 2: softie brothers wrote the script and they're also the director,

488
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 2: so they're thinking about all of this. So a truly

489
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 2: expertly written screenplay is going to have all this. And

490
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:56,120
Speaker 2: that's what carring Jury used in The Magnificent Ambersen's a reconstruction,

491
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 2: and so he's able to use that detail to reconstruct

492
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 2: it with I guess Ben, you maybe describe it off

493
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: Mike when we were talking about that as sort of

494
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 2: like a moving thumbnails, a moving thumbnail. Right.

495
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: It gives you, It gives you the gist. Still, people

496
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 1: don't think, and this is not to denigrate Kringer's excellent work.

497
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: People don't think this is the final cut as Orson

498
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: Wells envisioned it, because he was still continually sending those

499
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: editing notes and cuts from Brazil, right, so we don't

500
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 1: know how far along he got. We just know that

501
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:40,400
Speaker 1: Kringer as of today has the most comprehensive understanding of

502
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: what the Magnificent Amberson's could have been. And Caringer also

503
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: has some opinions on those multiple versions of the story

504
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:56,520
Speaker 1: that we mentioned earlier. Caringer's book argues that Wells participated

505
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: in this drastic re editing of the Ambersons and proposes

506
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: that orson Wells had ordered even more drastic cuts than

507
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: the studio.

508
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,840
Speaker 2: That's right, and that you know, again kind of goes

509
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,240
Speaker 2: to what we were talking about earlier, is how maybe

510
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 2: Wells wanted to spin it as the studio was sort

511
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 2: of taking away his agency and the you know, stealing

512
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 2: his movie from him. But ultimately I think he was

513
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 2: just as in the weeds with like you know, edits

514
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 2: and stuff as they were. Though granted, maybe his edits

515
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 2: were like more for an artistic reasons than theirs, which

516
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 2: were probably more for like general audience kind of viewership reasons.

517
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 2: So he apparently, you know, we're talking about those cables

518
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: that he was sending for Rio. Some of them were

519
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 2: like in the thirty five page range of cables, just

520
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: like absolutely jam packed with these editing notes.

521
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:55,000
Speaker 1: And then there's another controversial charge from Carringer. He seems

522
00:30:55,040 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: to imply that Orson Wells sabotage the film before it

523
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 1: ever had an audience due to something called the big cut.

524
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: He proposed some drastic cuts before previews even took place.

525
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 1: If these cuts ordered by Wells were implemented in the

526
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 1: print that the audience saw, then Kringer says it could

527
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: explain why the picture performed so badly. But he also

528
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: says if this is true, then we need to completely

529
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 1: reassess our understanding of the entire history of the film.

530
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 1: But if you go back to Robert Wise, he says,

531
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: I don't remember any big cut being made. I think

532
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: what those folks saw at that first preview was exactly

533
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: what Orson had greenlit. And so we see that there's

534
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: a lot of different opinions. A lot of people took

535
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: this personally, but regardless of what the ultimate truth is,

536
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: we know that Wells himself was thoroughly shaken by the

537
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: experience of making this film or working with the studio,

538
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: and he was haunted by for the rest of his

539
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: life wondering what could have been.

540
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it makes sense because he kind of didn't

541
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 2: really work in the typical Hollywood system at all after this,

542
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: and like he you know RKAO pictures severed ties with him,

543
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 2: this was kind of seen as the beginnings of his reputation,

544
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 2: you know, that would kind of follow him for the

545
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 2: rest of his life as this sort of like neurotic

546
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 2: auteur who maybe couldn't always finish what he started, like

547
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 2: I was talking about. You know, he did make some

548
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: other films, like Touch of Evil, which is I haven't seen,

549
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 2: I've heard it's I've heard it's good. Though. One of

550
00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 2: his is later in life projects that I think probably

551
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 2: if you guys haven't seen it, and I know you'd

552
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,560
Speaker 2: love it's called Fis for Fake. It's a documentary kind

553
00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: of about like illusionists and art forgery, and he himself

554
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 2: stars in it as this sort of unreliable narrator. And

555
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 2: there's a fabulous Criterion release of Fis for Fake. I

556
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 2: highly recommend anybody that wants to get a sense of

557
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 2: like what Orson's deal was, you can see that because

558
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 2: it really shows his fascination with illusion his fascination with

559
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 2: like being able to kind of like trick people, and

560
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: like cinema is trickery at the end of the day,

561
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 2: like you're being lied to. But you're being lied to

562
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 2: with your own permission given. You know, like I want

563
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 2: you to take me on a ride, that's literally signing

564
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 2: up to be lied to. I mean, it's a weird

565
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 2: way of putting it.

566
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,479
Speaker 1: Well, it's valid when I've always thought that when someone

567
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: is lying, and when both people in the conversation know

568
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: that someone is lying, then what happens often is pretty

569
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: close to the truth. Right, that's when you are aware

570
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: of the deceit. Speaking of pretentious quotes and philosophies, here's

571
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 1: what Well had to say when he was asked about

572
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: RKO and the Ambersons. He says, they destroyed Amberson's and

573
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: the picture itself destroyed me. It's a little melodramatic, sure,

574
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: but the film did lose money. It lost six hundred

575
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: and twenty five thousand dollars it all, and it just

576
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:24,560
Speaker 1: added to earlier controversy and problems RKO had. You know,

577
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: Citizen Kane is somewhat inspired by a guy named William

578
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,400
Speaker 1: Randolph Hurst in a way that William randolph Hurst was

579
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: very not happy about, and so he was beefed up

580
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: with the RKO studio already and again because of this,

581
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: Hollywood started to resent orson Wells, the Golden Child was

582
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: less and less golden. Eventually, RKO severs their relationship with

583
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: Wells as a result of the Ambersons. And and like

584
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: you said, he never works in the mainstream movie industry.

585
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 2: Again.

586
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: He would go on to make a lot of other

587
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: cool films, but if you look at his career, this

588
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: was the deciding factor here, and it set Wells on

589
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 1: the path to becoming the character he is known as

590
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:25,400
Speaker 1: an American society today, the guy on the Paul and

591
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: the saw wine commercials, the fish sticks and frozen peas

592
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 1: were talking about. He became sort of a caricature.

593
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: That's right. It's interesting, isn't it, because you know, this

594
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 2: is the last kind of guy who you would ever

595
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 2: think would resort to doing fish stick commercials. I mean,

596
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 2: it's just like he obviously he had to eat, you know,

597
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 2: and he seemed to enjoy doing so that's too high

598
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 2: I can relate. But he it seems like another kind

599
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 2: of like you know, fall from grace, you know, like

600
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: to have to resort to that. Maybe he didn't care,

601
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,439
Speaker 2: maybe he does want to be comfortable in a whole

602
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 2: court and you know, you know, there there's actually a

603
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 2: really interesting quote here from a director named Henry Jaglam,

604
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,960
Speaker 2: who is actually one of Wells's you know, closest personal

605
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:16,600
Speaker 2: friends in those days, and he says, referring to Amberson's

606
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 2: he said to me repeatedly that anything bad that happened

607
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 2: to him in the next thirty forty years derived from Amberson's.

608
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: And I mean, you say that all the time.

609
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 2: I do say that. But Henry Jaglam is really interesting

610
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 2: director in his own right. And his daughter, Sabrina, is

611
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,279
Speaker 2: someone that I work with. I've worked with on a

612
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 2: couple of podcasts. He's been a showrunner for a show

613
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 2: called a wheel Woman about like this incredible story of

614
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,840
Speaker 2: a real life, you know, getaway driver for the mob

615
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 2: who used to be a Kodak girl like in the sixties,

616
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 2: and it is her incredible story and also a show

617
00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 2: that we're working on right now. But Sabrina mentioned to

618
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 2: me once that her father kind of like hung out

619
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 2: with with Orson Wells a lot in his latter days.

620
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 2: And this is then I saw this come up in

621
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:03,760
Speaker 2: some of the research and I was like, that's cool.

622
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: Also, while we're talking about other podcasts, if you want

623
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: to learn more about that seth Rogan film and the

624
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: pandemonium that followed geopolitically. Check out our Stuff They Don't

625
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: Want you know episode on that from a few years ago.

626
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: It gets really weird. There's hacking involved, there's speculation about biodiversity,

627
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: the DMZ, it's it's got everything.

628
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 2: But for now, there's a big leak right somber.

629
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 3: And so interesting that when Sony got hacked.

630
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 1: Yes, it's when Sony got hacked, So do check that out.

631
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 1: We can't wait to dive into more obscure, ridiculous film history.

632
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,920
Speaker 1: We hope you enjoy today's episode. Big big thanks to

633
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,720
Speaker 1: Max Kubrick, Williams, Big big thanks to our own William

634
00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: Randolph Hurst, Jonathan Strickland aka the Quister, and Noel Big

635
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: big thanks to you man. I'm really excited about the

636
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 1: ridiculous history cinematic universe. Ben Thompson from Badass of the Week.

637
00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: I just re listened to that episode.

638
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 2: He vibes with us.

639
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I love that action montage of Max. Just

640
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: you know, I know, I love bombing you a little,

641
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 1: but it's such a great job on that montage to Thanks.

642
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,040
Speaker 2: Very fun and speaking of vibes, you can also check

643
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,439
Speaker 2: out a recent episode of our sister podcast that Ben

644
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,280
Speaker 2: and I do with our buddy Matt Frederick about Vibes.

645
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 2: Not the genius nineteen eighties film I Got It, Ben,

646
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Speaker 2: thank you, but just about the concept of like what

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Speaker 2: is intuition? You know? Can we read body language? Can

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Speaker 2: we perceive these things? Is it some form of precognition

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00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 2: or is it just survival instinct? Check out the stuff

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Speaker 2: that I want you to an episode on Vibes.

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Speaker 1: And while you're checking out all these things, we have

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Speaker 1: a couple of just very very light spoilers for you

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Speaker 1: to in when we explore the stories of pirates having

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Speaker 1: a government. Tune in as we get further into the

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Speaker 1: weeds of etymology.

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Speaker 2: And of course no food history. I can't wait. We'll

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Speaker 2: see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,

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Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen

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Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.