Speaker 1: Hey to your Therapist listeners. It's Lori and Guy and
Speaker 1: we have a quick update.
Speaker 2: Many of you have told us that you get something
Speaker 2: new out of each episode when you listen to it
Speaker 2: again the second or third time. In fact, when we
Speaker 2: listen to the episodes again, we also get takeaways we
Speaker 2: didn't remember.
Speaker 1: We're They're therapy is like that too. There are so
Speaker 1: many learning moments in a session, and it's difficult to
Speaker 1: absorb them all at once. So while we're not taping
Speaker 1: new episodes right now, we are offering you our most
Speaker 1: popular sessions as encores so that you can continue to
Speaker 1: gain value from them.
Speaker 2: We love doing the Therapists episodes, but we're each busy
Speaker 2: with new and exciting projects that we hope you will
Speaker 2: love just as much.
Speaker 1: I have a new advice podcast called Since You Asked,
Speaker 1: which you can get wherever you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 2: And I have a new book coming out. It's called
Speaker 2: Mind Overgrind, How to Break Free when work Hijacks your life,
Speaker 2: and it will be published by Simon and Schuster. You
Speaker 2: can find out more about it on my website.
Speaker 1: You can learn more about these on our socials. And meanwhile,
Speaker 1: we hope you find these Dear Therapist sessions as valuable
Speaker 1: as we have making them for you. Hey, fellow travelers,
Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should
Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice
Speaker 1: column for The Atlantic.
Speaker 2: And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid,
Speaker 2: and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted.
Speaker 2: And this is Dear Therapists.
Speaker 1: Each week we invite you into a session so you
Speaker 1: can learn more about yourself by hearing how we help
Speaker 1: other people come to understand themselves better and make changes
Speaker 1: in their lives.
Speaker 2: So sit back and welcome to today's session.
Speaker 1: This week we'll get updates from last season sessions to
Speaker 1: find out how our advice worked out.
Speaker 3: A year later, Guy had said that he didn't think
Speaker 3: I understood how bad it had been, and then Laurie
Speaker 3: actually later on said that oftentimes people are hesitant to
Speaker 3: confront those painful well experiences because of what it might
Speaker 3: say about them. And I'll be honest, that was a
Speaker 3: really hard one. But getting unstuck is also what's opened
Speaker 3: myself up a lot more to finally feeling happy and hopeful.
Speaker 2: First, a quick note deo therapist is for informational purposes only,
Speaker 2: does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and it's not
Speaker 2: a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always
Speaker 2: seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional, or
Speaker 2: other qualified health provider with any questions you may have
Speaker 2: regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter,
Speaker 2: you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia use it in part
Speaker 2: or in full, and we may edit it for length
Speaker 2: and clarity. And the sessions you'll hear all names have
Speaker 2: been changed for the privacy of our fellow travelers.
Speaker 4: Hi.
Speaker 2: Guy, Hey Laurie.
Speaker 5: So Guy.
Speaker 1: I'm really excited because today we're doing another special episode
Speaker 1: where we are hearing updates from our season one sessions
Speaker 1: and the theme of today is freeing yourself.
Speaker 2: Is an important theme and the first person we're going
Speaker 2: to hear from is Elena. Elena, to remind our listeners,
Speaker 2: came to us to get help because she had a
Speaker 2: chronically cheating husband who she had been with for seventy years.
Speaker 2: And by chronically cheating, I literally mean could enter the
Speaker 2: cheating Olympics with how much cheating was going on.
Speaker 1: Yes, I remember that they would go to a therapy
Speaker 1: session and he would say, Okay, I'm not going to cheat,
Speaker 1: and then within twenty four hours he would be cheating again.
Speaker 2: Right, So let's get a reminder of what was going
Speaker 2: on for Elena in last year's session.
Speaker 4: So it has come out that the relations have been
Speaker 4: with men. However, my husband is very closed off. He
Speaker 4: kind of just wanted to go away. He doesn't want
Speaker 4: to discuss it in detail. He acknowledges that it happened,
Speaker 4: yet he doesn't want to talk about it. He just
Speaker 4: kind of wants to forget about it. Then there's that
Speaker 4: wall built, that avoidancy of him not talking about it,
Speaker 4: shutting down for a few to discuss it, and eventually
Speaker 4: he'll leave the home or the other side where he's
Speaker 4: angry and super defensive. The other side of it is
Speaker 4: when we're in therapy, it's like a twitch, like he'll
Speaker 4: talk about it and he'll say he feels attacked, or
Speaker 4: he feels like he's disgusting, or he feels that I
Speaker 4: find him disgusting. Kind of working through how he feels.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was not a good situation. So I am
Speaker 2: very curious to hear where Elena is today.
Speaker 6: Yeah, let's take a listen.
Speaker 5: My name is Elena, and I called and spoke with
Speaker 5: Lauri and Guy in regards to my husband who was
Speaker 5: having affairs, and I was also stationed overseas, so I
Speaker 5: was isolated away from any family and friends and really
Speaker 5: any support system to confide in and deal with you
Speaker 5: all that which was going on. So since I've spoken
Speaker 5: with them, it's been a little over a year. My
Speaker 5: husband and I are no longer together. We've separated officially
Speaker 5: just a few months after I spoke with Glory Guy,
Speaker 5: and then the divorce was finalized in October of twenty twenty,
Speaker 5: So is pretty quick.
Speaker 2: Wow, that is very quick. That's less than a year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And on the one hand, I'm a little bit
Speaker 1: surprised that it was that quick because she was so
Speaker 1: reluctant to make a move.
Speaker 6: When we talked.
Speaker 1: And I think it's interesting because you and I felt
Speaker 1: like he's not changing. She's been through so much with him,
Speaker 1: and he is not interested in changing. So sometimes people say,
Speaker 1: why won't this person change even though they say they
Speaker 1: want to change. I think he knew he didn't want
Speaker 1: to change, but he wasn't willing to say that to
Speaker 1: her because of the consequence which is that she would
Speaker 1: probably leave. And sometimes therapists, you know, we don't tell
Speaker 1: people whether to stay in marriages or leave, but when
Speaker 1: they're so problematic and there is so much suffering, we
Speaker 1: hope that someone will come to that conclusion to save themselves.
Speaker 1: And when Elena came to us, she seemed clear that
Speaker 1: she was done, but she also wasn't ready to move
Speaker 1: forward because I think she had so much grieving to
Speaker 1: be done.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we often don't say to someone, hey, you should
Speaker 2: really leave this marriage, but we will leave a trail
Speaker 2: of bread crumbs leading them to that conclusion if it's warranted.
Speaker 2: In this case, it wasn't even bread crumbs. Loaves of
Speaker 2: bread led a trail to like, hey, Elena, get out.
Speaker 1: And I want to be clear that we aren't there
Speaker 1: to decide for people what they should do. So when
Speaker 1: we say we leave the bread crumbs, it's not as
Speaker 1: though we think we know best for them, because there
Speaker 1: are people who they would rather be in a situation
Speaker 1: that maybe you or I guy would say, oh that's
Speaker 1: not for me, but it is for them, and even
Speaker 1: though it's not ideal, it's problematic, they would rather be
Speaker 1: in that for whatever reason. So we want them to
Speaker 1: ask the important questions of themselves so they can come
Speaker 1: to their own conclusion about what they want to do.
Speaker 1: And that's what I think the breadcrumbs are.
Speaker 2: The thing is about Elena is that she actually knew
Speaker 2: that this was really bad for her, that he wasn't changing,
Speaker 2: that this wasn't working. The thing she really struggled to
Speaker 2: do was to cut the cord and make the decision.
Speaker 2: And given how quickly the divorce was finalized after speaking
Speaker 2: with her, just months after we spoke with her, I
Speaker 2: am so curious to hear what happened.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I am too.
Speaker 5: So what happened is so we were living in Italy
Speaker 5: overseas and March then my husband got called back to
Speaker 5: the States. Well, I and his children from a previous
Speaker 5: marriage were left in Italy when he went back to
Speaker 5: the States and the country went into complete shutdown. We
Speaker 5: were unable to leave the country and get back home,
Speaker 5: and that just increased the stress in our relationship at
Speaker 5: the time, but also just me being the only adult
Speaker 5: in the household with three kids depending on me. I'm
Speaker 5: not the biological mother, but you know, the step parent.
Speaker 5: There further complicated things were my husband wasn't really communicating
Speaker 5: during this time. He wasn't calling us on the phone,
Speaker 5: he wouldn't answer I don't know messages. Really really kind
Speaker 5: of left alone, you know, with the stresses of going
Speaker 5: to school online and three different kids in three different grades,
Speaker 5: three different schools. You know, I was really overwhelmed. That
Speaker 5: was something that my husband couldn't be empathetic about, and
Speaker 5: so that really hurt the marriage further.
Speaker 2: So Wow, and there are a couple of wow moments
Speaker 2: for me, I guess the biggest one is that we
Speaker 2: didn't know there were kids in the picture. Now, in
Speaker 2: regular psychotherapy, we get to ask a lot of background
Speaker 2: questions and we will find out very soon if there
Speaker 2: were children or any other people that are relevant in
Speaker 2: the picture. But in the sessions we do for the podcast,
Speaker 2: we only have a very short amount of time, and
Speaker 2: there was nothing in what she was telling us to
Speaker 2: indicate that there were children there, and certainly that there
Speaker 2: were his children from a previous marriage, and even more
Speaker 2: so that she was a big part of taking care
Speaker 2: of them. That is a big surprise for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is such a surprise that we had that
Speaker 1: entire session with her and not want did it come
Speaker 1: up that he had kids from another marriage, and it's
Speaker 1: not uncommon for people to leave things out in sessions,
Speaker 1: even when we are seeing them for psychotherapy. And I
Speaker 1: think that the reason that people leave things out is
Speaker 1: because if they bring something up, it forces them to
Speaker 1: face a truth that they might not be ready to.
Speaker 1: And so for Elena, if she had added this information that, oh,
Speaker 1: by the way, not only is he chronically cheating on
Speaker 1: me and lying to me and gaslighting me and calling
Speaker 1: me crazy, but also I'm taking care of his three kids,
Speaker 1: And if she had added that, it would be even
Speaker 1: more clear how untenable the situation was at a point
Speaker 1: when she wasn't quite ready to face it entirely.
Speaker 2: And the fact that while he was in America and
Speaker 2: Elena was taking care of his three kids, he wasn't
Speaker 2: reaching out even to be in touch with his kids,
Speaker 2: so he was abandoning the kids as well, just shows
Speaker 2: such a complete disregard for his family relationships and how
Speaker 2: much he was incredibly focused on himself and on what
Speaker 2: he wanted and needed in that time and truly shut
Speaker 2: everyone else out, including apparently Elena, not just Elena.
Speaker 1: And even then, even with the anxiety that she must
Speaker 1: have been experiencing to be with his kids and to
Speaker 1: be so far away and to not know what was
Speaker 1: going on with him, and to not be in any
Speaker 1: contact with him. That just incredibly anxiety provoking. And still
Speaker 1: she was not ready to leave. So let's hear what
Speaker 1: happened next.
Speaker 5: And then, you know, I found out that while he's
Speaker 5: in America and I'm in Italy with his kids, he's
Speaker 5: having affairs still, and he was open to me about
Speaker 5: that that he was seeing someone, and not just one time,
Speaker 5: but multiple times. When it was time that we could
Speaker 5: finally leave the country to come back to America, I
Speaker 5: asked him not to pick me up at the airport.
Speaker 5: I just needed some time to myself to kind of
Speaker 5: really decide if I wanted to move forward. So I
Speaker 5: think I landed on a Tuesday, and then on that
Speaker 5: Thursday is when he told me he no longer wanted
Speaker 5: to work on the relationship. And that's something that I
Speaker 5: struggle with because I know that our marriage ended because
Speaker 5: he chose to walk away, and I don't know if
Speaker 5: that's something that I could have done eventually or maybe
Speaker 5: in six months, maybe in a year, maybe in three years.
Speaker 5: It's something that I kind of struggle with knowing what
Speaker 5: is in my past or what is going on internally.
Speaker 5: That made me stay in that relationship for as long
Speaker 5: as I did, with as much toxicity in it that
Speaker 5: there was. You know, it was definitely something that needed
Speaker 5: to happen, and I think the timing was well when
Speaker 5: it happened. It was just I wasn't there yet. I
Speaker 5: wasn't ready to walk away yet, and it was It
Speaker 5: was very difficult for me, So I can't take the
Speaker 5: credit of walking away from that relationship. But now I
Speaker 5: am understanding that it needed to happen and it was
Speaker 5: for the best.
Speaker 1: So here again, even with him not being a real
Speaker 1: partner and communicating during COVID while she's alone with his
Speaker 1: three kids and telling her he was sleeping with other people,
Speaker 1: Elena still wasn't ready to leave him, and it's going
Speaker 1: to be very important for her to understand why that is.
Speaker 1: I'm glad that she's asking herself that question. I remember
Speaker 1: session she mentioned that her mother had been cheated on
Speaker 1: as well, and so I'm guessing that there's some intergenerational
Speaker 1: pattern or trauma that's being played out here that she's
Speaker 1: going to have to understand better.
Speaker 2: I think part of why Elena really couldn't leave, And
Speaker 2: I certainly understand why it's upsetting for her that, given everything,
Speaker 2: he was the one to break up with her. But
Speaker 2: when you live with somebody who's gaslighting you so profoundly
Speaker 2: and for such a long time, doing outrageous, outrageous things,
Speaker 2: and telling you that your reactions are outrageous or out
Speaker 2: of control or you're the crazy one, it makes you
Speaker 2: lose touch with your internal compass. You no longer know
Speaker 2: what's up and what's down, on what's right and what's wrong.
Speaker 2: And even if you think you're justified, you're just not
Speaker 2: sure because all you hear is that's an overreaction, you're
Speaker 2: out of control, you're crazy. And I think over the
Speaker 2: years what happened to Elena is she just lost all perspective. Now,
Speaker 2: we gave her an assignment to help get some of
Speaker 2: that back, but I think that loss for her was profound.
Speaker 2: She simply couldn't trust herself, and she didn't trust herself
Speaker 2: to make that decision, especially when she was still isolated
Speaker 2: in a foreign country. I think she lost all ability
Speaker 2: to be in touch with what reality is and what's reasonable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the isolation was a big part of it, and
Speaker 1: that's why we had her tell her friends what was
Speaker 1: going on so she could get a reality check on that.
Speaker 1: And we also had her write down every incident that
Speaker 1: happened so that she could see it on the page,
Speaker 1: which also helps with reality checking. But then you still
Speaker 1: have him coming in saying, Oh, you're getting upset about
Speaker 1: this thing. You're overreacting what's happening. You're crazy, And you
Speaker 1: know that goes on for years and years, and it
Speaker 1: becomes very hard to locate your internal compass.
Speaker 2: And I guess in that way, his leaving was a
Speaker 2: gift for her because she wasn't able to and maybe
Speaker 2: she would have become more able to once she got back,
Speaker 2: but him leaving and doing it so abruptly and so
Speaker 2: much in line with his other inconsiderate, really selfish actions,
Speaker 2: I think was nonetheless a gift. Because she wasn't able
Speaker 2: to push the eject button. He pushed it for her.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I think she needs to reframe it that way.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people feel like, I've been
Speaker 1: through all of this with you, and you're the one
Speaker 1: who's dumping me, which is I think what she kind
Speaker 1: of grapples with a little bit here, and what I
Speaker 1: want to say to Elena is this absolutely was a
Speaker 1: gift to her. I hope that she will consider it
Speaker 1: that and especially moving forward when she experiences and tastes
Speaker 1: her freedom, I think she's going to see it more
Speaker 1: and more as a gift.
Speaker 2: So let's here's the more. There's more from Elena. Let's
Speaker 2: here what happens next.
Speaker 5: So yeah, so he still oversees and I am a
Speaker 5: stateside in a city with friends and family. When I
Speaker 5: got back to the States, my family and friends threw
Speaker 5: me a big welcome home party. I just broke down
Speaker 5: in tears with the amount of love that was shut
Speaker 5: on me. They're at that party. Since all of this,
Speaker 5: I've met someone super wonderful and great. They've been really
Speaker 5: patient with my healing process of everything.
Speaker 1: I love hearing this because once you leave a situation
Speaker 1: like that, you often find the people who are there
Speaker 1: for you and who want to meet your needs. So
Speaker 1: that great reception and homecoming from family and friends, and
Speaker 1: now a new boyfriend who's there for her and having
Speaker 1: that understanding with her healing process, I'm just so delighted
Speaker 1: to hear this.
Speaker 2: And I think it's not a coincidence that once she
Speaker 2: was able to receive in person and true love and
Speaker 2: care from the people around her, then it opened her
Speaker 2: up and allowed her to receive it from a romantic
Speaker 2: partner as well.
Speaker 1: That's right, there's a two way dynamic going on, which
Speaker 1: is not only when you're in that situation can you
Speaker 1: not see things clearly, but you're not open to the
Speaker 1: kind of person who's going to give you what you
Speaker 1: want and what you need. And once she was out
Speaker 1: of that situation, that opened her up to the possibility
Speaker 1: of something new, and Elena had a little bit more
Speaker 1: to say.
Speaker 6: Let's hear what that is.
Speaker 5: Some of the things that I took away were at
Speaker 5: one point they said that I was having these big
Speaker 5: emotional reactions to traumatic events, and that validated my feelings
Speaker 5: of like, yeah, these are big traumatic events, and you know,
Speaker 5: having an emotional reaction is okay, because at that point,
Speaker 5: I'd been called crazy. I'd been called out of control
Speaker 5: so often that I felt that, well, maybe I am irrational,
Speaker 5: maybe I am crazy. But when they kind of said that,
Speaker 5: that really helped validate my feelings. You know, also with
Speaker 5: my husband calling me out of control all the time,
Speaker 5: you're out of control, you know, guy, said, well, aren't
Speaker 5: his actions out of control? And so that really validated
Speaker 5: for me those feelings.
Speaker 1: Yes, this is exactly what we were talking about. I'm
Speaker 1: so glad she can see that.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. That's really good to hear that she's clear about
Speaker 2: those things. So there's just one last piece I think
Speaker 2: that we haven't heard yet. Let's hear the end and
Speaker 2: have things out really in now.
Speaker 5: The other thing that I've done, I guess, is create
Speaker 5: boundaries in my life in other relationships, So with family
Speaker 5: members that I needed to have boundaries, and then also
Speaker 5: with friendships even I've had to put some boundaries. And
Speaker 5: then even as far as getting back into dating after
Speaker 5: the divorce, I would see those all too familiar red
Speaker 5: flags and know like, okay, I've been here, done that. No,
Speaker 5: thank you, this is a boundary for me and this
Speaker 5: is acceptable. So that's really you know, I can't thank
Speaker 5: Glory and Guy enough for what they've done in my life,
Speaker 5: and hopefully my story has had some impact on someone
Speaker 5: else's life, and I just really appreciate this avenue here
Speaker 5: for people to listen or to hear from you guys
Speaker 5: in something that they might really be struggling with.
Speaker 4: So thank you.
Speaker 7: So much glory and.
Speaker 6: Guy right so here again.
Speaker 1: Once you become aware of what you need, you feel
Speaker 1: empowered to ask for that in relationships going forward, and
Speaker 1: you won't settle for less. And she found someone who
Speaker 1: seems to meet those desires that she has about how
Speaker 1: she wants to be treated, about honesty, about presence, about connection.
Speaker 1: And the reason that we do this podcast is that
Speaker 1: we feel that each person's story in session does impact
Speaker 1: someone else's life. And there are many Elena's out there
Speaker 1: who have been lied to, are lighted, and we really
Speaker 1: hope that this session is helpful to them.
Speaker 2: So thank you Elena for coming on and sharing your
Speaker 2: story with us and with our listeners. And you know
Speaker 2: that exercise we gave you to think about a good
Speaker 2: life you might have in five years time. We actually
Speaker 2: think it might be quite good now. Absolutely, you're listening
Speaker 2: to Deo Therapists from iHeartRadio. We'll be back after a
Speaker 2: quick break.
Speaker 6: I'm Lori Gottlieb and.
Speaker 2: I'm Guy Wench and this is Deo Therapist.
Speaker 6: So let's hear our next update.
Speaker 1: Our next fellow traveler from season one also had to
Speaker 1: free herself, but this time it was from the pressure
Speaker 1: that she was putting on herself. And I love this
Speaker 1: one because Libby was only sixteen, but she knew something
Speaker 1: had to change.
Speaker 2: And I love it because that same insight took me
Speaker 2: probably a couple of decades longer than Libby to figure
Speaker 2: out me too. So just as a reminder, Livy was
Speaker 2: a junior in high school and she was putting a
Speaker 2: lot of pressure on herself to do super well, so
Speaker 2: much so that she really didn't have much of life
Speaker 2: and she was feeling very stressed out. And we helped
Speaker 2: Libby s that real success means having ambition but also
Speaker 2: having a life.
Speaker 8: My course load is pretty heavy. I'm on the leadership
Speaker 8: I think five different clubs at my school, and two
Speaker 8: of them are extremely prominent, So I usually have about
Speaker 8: like three meetings a week with that, and I also
Speaker 8: volunteer at the food bank eight hours every Saturday. I
Speaker 8: really do try to like put a lot of effort
Speaker 8: into my school work. I do feel like the way
Speaker 8: that like the college system and everything is kind of
Speaker 8: set up is that you kind of have to go
Speaker 8: through this in your teenage years, like there's not really
Speaker 8: much time for taking it easier, just like taking a
Speaker 8: step back, especially because I know so many other kids
Speaker 8: are competing. It's just I do think I understand that
Speaker 8: makes me happy. I don't know if I'm able to
Speaker 8: do that to reach my goals.
Speaker 1: She had put a lot of our advice into practice
Speaker 1: that very first week and seemed to be doing better.
Speaker 1: I'm curious to hear how she's doing now about a
Speaker 1: year later.
Speaker 9: Hi, guys, it's Libby here.
Speaker 8: I just finished up junior year, and I can definitely
Speaker 8: see improvement in myself, not just in grades or my resume,
Speaker 8: but ultimately in my sense of self. School did get
Speaker 8: a lot more stressful, and I did of those weeks
Speaker 8: of crunch time, But the biggest change I made was
Speaker 8: just letting my brain chill out by scheduling and time
Speaker 8: to relax.
Speaker 4: None mind.
Speaker 8: I taught myself that this rest was a given, not
Speaker 8: something I should feel guilty about. I tried to listen
Speaker 8: to my body in my brain, and I recognized and
Speaker 8: I was just tired and needed that rest. I began
Speaker 8: treating myself like a friend who I wanted to help succeed.
Speaker 2: Wow, that was great to hear. There's so many key
Speaker 2: elements that are important in what Libby said. First of all,
Speaker 2: she switched from self criticism when she felt the urge
Speaker 2: to take a break to self compassion, which was a
Speaker 2: very important move because then she's able to actually take
Speaker 2: a break and not feel bad about it. She's also
Speaker 2: paying attention to her body and how she's feeling, and
Speaker 2: she's using that to signal her when she might need
Speaker 2: to take a break, which is also another great move.
Speaker 2: And the last thing, which I think is crucial for
Speaker 2: so many people, is she's scheduling downtime. And for people
Speaker 2: who have a lot on their plate, who tend to
Speaker 2: be busy and overstressed, if you don't schedule downtime, if
Speaker 2: you don't schedule me time or we time, it often
Speaker 2: just doesn't happen.
Speaker 6: That's right.
Speaker 1: And she also reframed downtime as essential as opposed to
Speaker 1: wasting time. So I think before she felt like, oh
Speaker 1: if I do something that is relaxing, that I'm not
Speaker 1: being productive, And you think that that reframe helped to
Speaker 1: minimize her guilt around taking the downtime and also being
Speaker 1: able to benefit from it. And this is something that
Speaker 1: highly driven people tend to struggle with.
Speaker 2: Absolutely they do, and I'm one of them, and we
Speaker 2: all need those reminders.
Speaker 9: We do we do.
Speaker 6: Sometimes here's a confession.
Speaker 1: Sometimes I actually listened to this episode because I need
Speaker 1: the reminders myself in my own life.
Speaker 2: Right we called her Libby two. Libby Too was the
Speaker 2: version that actually was more integrated and recognized the importance
Speaker 2: of having a personal life. And sometimes I'll say to myself,
Speaker 2: don't be Guy one, be Guy too. Right now, you
Speaker 2: know and schedules name. Yeah, let's see what else we
Speaker 2: come down from Libby.
Speaker 8: My life was a lot of school and extracurriculars, yes,
Speaker 8: but I can also pinpoint a lot of fun in
Speaker 8: the last six months, dinner with an old friend or
Speaker 8: a day out getting ice cream and driving with my
Speaker 8: little brother. I feel moregoing, more capable, and more nuanced
Speaker 8: as an individual after making my life less black and
Speaker 8: white of things I had to do and making it
Speaker 8: more con technicolor of things I wanted to do. Instead
Speaker 8: of viewing this practice as self indulgent, of Luring Guy's
Speaker 8: advice that this balance was the most important thing, Thank
Speaker 8: you so much, Luring Guy. I'm going to try and
Speaker 8: continue this path. I let my best Lebby shine through.
Speaker 1: Well, the best Libby is definitely shining through, and I
Speaker 1: love that she mentioned the word fun because I think
Speaker 1: so many of us, as we get older, forget to
Speaker 1: have fun, We forget that fun is an essential part
Speaker 1: of our lives. We think I don't have time for that,
Speaker 1: and we think it's optional. But it's not optional. And
Speaker 1: so I think when we suggest a different perspective and
Speaker 1: a way to reframe something, we can tell when somebody
Speaker 1: really gets it. And it was clear in this episode
Speaker 1: that Libby really got it. She said, you know, it clipped,
Speaker 1: and once it does, then someone can make a whole
Speaker 1: bunch of meaningful changes in lots of areas of their lives.
Speaker 1: And you can see that Libby did that. And I
Speaker 1: want our listeners to think this week about fun and
Speaker 1: when they have fun, and if they're not having fun,
Speaker 1: what can they do to have fun? And how can
Speaker 1: they do it in the way that we suggested to Libby.
Speaker 1: So it's not that you're dropping all of your responsibilities,
Speaker 1: it's that one of your responsibilities is to have fun.
Speaker 1: And I hope they'll re listen to the episode.
Speaker 2: It's so important because while there are people who throughout
Speaker 2: their lives can have fun naturally, most of us do
Speaker 2: get busy, do have responsibilities, and there has to be
Speaker 2: a certain intentionality about clearing the space and having the
Speaker 2: mindset for just letting loose and having fun. And I
Speaker 2: am so glad that Libby has that in mind. And
Speaker 2: I urge all our listeners who have high pressure or
Speaker 2: high stressed situations or lots of responsibilities to really make
Speaker 2: time and have the intention to truly have fun.
Speaker 1: And while we're talking about fun, our next update of
Speaker 1: a fellow traveler from season one is from Liam, and
Speaker 1: we really wanted Liam to have fun at his sister's wedding,
Speaker 1: but he also was really struggling with this concept of freedom.
Speaker 2: Liam was transitioning from female to male, but he was
Speaker 2: very early on in his transition, and it brought up
Speaker 2: the question of what does he wear to his sister's
Speaker 2: wedding because it had gotten postponed because of COVID and
Speaker 2: was supposed to happen before the transition began, but now
Speaker 2: that it had and now that it was still very early,
Speaker 2: what does he wear that would make him comfortable that
Speaker 2: his sister would be comfortable with. And that was the
Speaker 2: conflict that he came.
Speaker 1: To us with, right, so let's hear what was happening
Speaker 1: with him last year.
Speaker 10: As much as my family is very accepting, I think
Speaker 10: that this issue really it shows that they aren't as
Speaker 10: accepting as they think they are. Like my mother will
Speaker 10: go march for gay rights and all of these things,
Speaker 10: but you know, as soon as her son comes out
Speaker 10: to her that he is part of the transgender community,
Speaker 10: that's where issues start arising. And then it's like, Okay,
Speaker 10: well maybe you're not as accepting as you think that
Speaker 10: you are. And I think that that is showing a
Speaker 10: little bit. With my sister, she has traditional values. It's
Speaker 10: harder for me to fit those traditional values and still
Speaker 10: be true to myself.
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this, what would it look
Speaker 1: like to be true to yourself at Sarah's wedding?
Speaker 10: What would make me feel comfortable? Would be wearing men's
Speaker 10: formal wear. The day of her wedding, I will be
Speaker 10: taking my seventh testosterone shot, So my mind is somewhere,
Speaker 10: and then my outer appearance is I feel is being
Speaker 10: stuffed back into a closet.
Speaker 1: A lot of people said to us after they heard
Speaker 1: this episode that even though a lot of the situations
Speaker 1: in our podcast might not apply to them, that what
Speaker 1: they heard in the podcast applied so much to their
Speaker 1: own lives. So let's hear what happened with Liam, because
Speaker 1: I think that it's going to be really relevant to
Speaker 1: people who are both in LIAM situation and people who
Speaker 1: maybe need to free themselves both externally and internally in
Speaker 1: various ways.
Speaker 11: Hi Laurie, Hi guy.
Speaker 12: When I first came on the show, I think I
Speaker 12: was about one month on testosterone. Now I'm about eight
Speaker 12: months on testosterone. I'm constantly feeling better and better about
Speaker 12: myself every day, emotionally and physically, so that's been really nice.
Speaker 12: I do have more trands friends as well. It's really
Speaker 12: nice having friends within my community that can really understand
Speaker 12: the problems that I face. Just really nice to be
Speaker 12: able to talk to somebody. And I also am pretty
Speaker 12: much out at work. Everybody pretty much uses my real name,
Speaker 12: which is really nice.
Speaker 11: So I did follow the advice.
Speaker 12: The first bit I've actually failed to mention when I
Speaker 12: did my initial callback, which was to sit down with
Speaker 12: Sarah and just say, hey, I am really excited for you.
Speaker 12: Sorry if dagara lost in translation. The outfit is not
Speaker 12: the focus. The focus is celebrating you and your husband
Speaker 12: on your day. We did have that talk, and I
Speaker 12: think it was a big sigh of relief for her.
Speaker 12: I think it was really great that you guys pointed
Speaker 12: out that she probably needed to hear that, because I
Speaker 12: think she really did.
Speaker 2: So I'm smiling because what Liam was referring to is
Speaker 2: that his homework was to talk to his sister about
Speaker 2: what he would wear, but to tell her that he
Speaker 2: was actually really excited about the wedding and excited for
Speaker 2: her and all that stuff. And in the voicemail he
Speaker 2: left us with the update that was included in that episode,
Speaker 2: he forgot to mention that he did have that part
Speaker 2: of the conversation, and he felt so bad about it.
Speaker 2: He reached out to me on social media and said,
Speaker 2: you know, I did tell her I was excited. I
Speaker 2: did tell her that was the most important thing, and
Speaker 2: I didn't mention that. And people are going to think
Speaker 2: I'm terrible, and I'm like, no, no, no, I think
Speaker 2: people know you really about your sister. But I'm so
Speaker 2: glad we gave him this opportunity now to correct the
Speaker 2: record and let people know that he was very focused
Speaker 2: on the sister and her happiness and her husband, and
Speaker 2: in that conversation we absolutely emphasize those things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and one thing I loved about that episode was
Speaker 1: it was so clear how much Liam and his sister
Speaker 1: cared about each other and loved each other and were
Speaker 1: trying to be so respectful of one another, and they
Speaker 1: both wanted the other person to be comfortable, and they
Speaker 1: were sort of in a gridlock because of that. So
Speaker 1: it was great that they were able to have that conversation.
Speaker 1: And also going back to what Liam said about finding
Speaker 1: a support network of other trans people, which was another
Speaker 1: assignment that we had given him. We had suggested virtual
Speaker 1: groups at the time, but he actually went and found
Speaker 1: people in his community, which is of course much better.
Speaker 1: Having that support as well as the support in his
Speaker 1: family probably helped him to come out at work as well,
Speaker 1: and so now that he's out everywhere, that's such an
Speaker 1: important step in this process for him.
Speaker 2: And also the reminder that the two things that are
Speaker 2: really important and way more than too frankly, but two
Speaker 2: things that are important is the correct pronouns and the
Speaker 2: correct name. And the fact that he said people are
Speaker 2: using his name at work his correct name at work
Speaker 2: was also great to hear because that's a very meaningful thing.
Speaker 2: So let's hear some more about what's happening with Liam.
Speaker 12: You guys touched upon two things that have since stayed
Speaker 12: with me. The first, I think Laurie was the one
Speaker 12: that said, how I externalize an internal conflict, and I
Speaker 12: think I have done that so much in the past.
Speaker 12: I'm so grateful that she mentioned that because I've been
Speaker 12: way more vigilant about it. It's just something that I
Speaker 12: can see a past pattern that I've had, so I've
Speaker 12: definitely been working on that and figuring that out. And
Speaker 12: the second bit that sometimes I'm so empathetic that I
Speaker 12: don't prioritize myself enough. That is also something I've seen
Speaker 12: a pattern in my past about tremendously. I'm not going
Speaker 12: to lose that empathy that I have for others, but
Speaker 12: I'm also not going to allow it to be prioritized
Speaker 12: in front of things I need to do for myself.
Speaker 12: So those two things have really stayed with me.
Speaker 1: I remember exactly when I said that to Liam in
Speaker 1: the session. I was talking about how sometimes what we
Speaker 1: think is an external conflict actually becomes an internalized conflict,
Speaker 1: Meaning our culture tells us one thing, and we think
Speaker 1: that we're fighting the culture, which we are, but then
Speaker 1: we have bought into that so much that we're fighting
Speaker 1: ourselves at the same time. And so now he was
Speaker 1: dealing with not just this outside conflict, but the one
Speaker 1: that he had brought into himself, into his own psyche,
Speaker 1: and he had to really tackle both of those things
Speaker 1: at the same time.
Speaker 2: That's absolutely true, and it's true for anyone who is
Speaker 2: living their lives and their identities go against whatever culture
Speaker 2: is that they were raised in, because we tend to
Speaker 2: internalize the cultures we were raised in. That's the messaging
Speaker 2: we've got for many, many formative years. When we go
Speaker 2: against it, it actually takes a while to confront those differences,
Speaker 2: both externally and especially internally.
Speaker 1: When we talk about external we also are talking about
Speaker 1: our families. So sometimes we'll get messages from our families
Speaker 1: about who we are that we internalize, You're the sensitive
Speaker 1: one in the family, you're the difficult one in the family,
Speaker 1: whatever that identity is. And then we start to think, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe I'm too sensitive, maybe I'm too difficult. And so
Speaker 1: we're fighting not just this perception that somebody else has
Speaker 1: about us, but we're fighting the perception that now we
Speaker 1: start to believe about ourselves as well.
Speaker 2: And it's an interesting exercise to sometimes take notes for
Speaker 2: yourself about what was your role in your family, how
Speaker 2: were you known quote in your family, how are you
Speaker 2: known in school? What was your role or your identity?
Speaker 2: And how much of that are you holding onto? How
Speaker 2: much of that do you still want to hold on to,
Speaker 2: and how much of that is still even correct?
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes that does make us more empathetic,
Speaker 1: because when we have experienced something, we feel for other people,
Speaker 1: but we forget to feel enough for ourselves.
Speaker 2: Empathy can indeed be a double edged sword, and especially
Speaker 2: for people who have it very automatically. For some people,
Speaker 2: empathy is a thought exercise. They have to pause and
Speaker 2: put themselves in the other person's shoes and figure it out.
Speaker 2: For others, it comes very automatically. And when it comes
Speaker 2: very automatically that I get what the other person is
Speaker 2: thinking or feeling, then sometimes your own needs and thoughts
Speaker 2: and feelings can come second. And we both see that
Speaker 2: in our offices when we talk to someone who's very
Speaker 2: very empathetic and we're talking about a relationship and we
Speaker 2: ask them what they feel, and they keep going to
Speaker 2: what the other person feels, and we have to keep saying, no,
Speaker 2: I'm asking you what you feel, and keep talking about
Speaker 2: the other person. It's an example of people who are
Speaker 2: very high in empathy, and Liam was at risk for that.
Speaker 2: So I'm glad that he is aware of it, because
Speaker 2: you literally have to consciously remind yourself not to not
Speaker 2: think of the other people because that comes automatically, but
Speaker 2: to push up your own priority in that order of things.
Speaker 6: And I think there's one last piece Liam wanted to
Speaker 6: share with us.
Speaker 12: Most importantly would have gained about myself is that there's
Speaker 12: a lot more love and support in my family than
Speaker 12: I had initially thought. Sad to say, but I would
Speaker 12: have never described my family as very close knit or
Speaker 12: very emotional before that. But listening to that conversation again,
Speaker 12: it is so apparent how much love and support I
Speaker 12: get from them. The love between my sister and I
Speaker 12: specifically is just so apparent and limitless. Getting to listen
Speaker 12: to it almost from an outsider perspective, made me realize
Speaker 12: that it was in front of my face the whole time.
Speaker 12: This is probably an issue that is faced every day
Speaker 12: by somebody somewhere. It's really hard to be true to yourself.
Speaker 11: I hope that other people dealing with this.
Speaker 12: Do get the support and the love that I receive
Speaker 12: from my family, and even if they don't, I hope
Speaker 12: they have the strength in them to be true to themselves.
Speaker 12: There's any trance people listening to this. I just wanted
Speaker 12: to say that you are valid and you are loved,
Speaker 12: and that does not depend on whether your family or
Speaker 12: friends accept you or not, and most importantly, you are
Speaker 12: not alone. Thank you so much, Guy and Laurie. It
Speaker 12: has been such an honor and getting such helpful feedback.
Speaker 12: You have absolutely change my life for the better. I
Speaker 12: can't even put into words what this has meant to me,
Speaker 12: so thank you so much.
Speaker 11: I really appreciate you guys.
Speaker 1: There really is a lot of love in that family,
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's hard to see it. I remember with
Speaker 1: Liam's mom. At first, she was very supportive when he
Speaker 1: told her that he was going to be transitioning, and
Speaker 1: then the next time they spoke she had kind of
Speaker 1: changed a little bit in terms of how accepting she
Speaker 1: was of that and how on board she was. And
Speaker 1: I think that sometimes that can be confused with a
Speaker 1: lack of love. But we have to remember that when
Speaker 1: somebody in a family system changes, no matter what kind
Speaker 1: of change it is, it takes a beat for other
Speaker 1: people in the family to process that change, and when
Speaker 1: the love is there in that way, people generally do
Speaker 1: come around. There are so many times that we hear
Speaker 1: about unfortunately where people don't come around, where people don't
Speaker 1: embrace the person for who they really are. But in
Speaker 1: this case, just from everything Liam was saying, it felt
Speaker 1: like there was so much love in that family, not
Speaker 1: just between the sisters but amongst all of them in
Speaker 1: different ways, that it's so beautiful to hear how it's
Speaker 1: all coming together now a year later.
Speaker 2: It is really lovely to hear, you know. The thing
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, Laurie, is that when somebody has a change
Speaker 2: in identity, then they've been thinking about it for a
Speaker 2: long time before they really come out and talk to
Speaker 2: their family about it. And by the time they do,
Speaker 2: they're often so impatient to get going and to move
Speaker 2: on with this next phase of their life that they
Speaker 2: want their family to come around immediately, and they forget
Speaker 2: sometimes that you've been thinking about this for many years.
Speaker 2: For some members of your family, it's very new and
Speaker 2: it will take them time. Not that they won't get there,
Speaker 2: but they still have to go through a little bit
Speaker 2: of an adjustment, a little bit of a transition, and
Speaker 2: I think the benefit of hearing from Liam now is
Speaker 2: that enough time has passed and it's just lovely to
Speaker 2: hear that. That's some that's so much coming to the
Speaker 2: surface now.
Speaker 1: And what's so important here is that no matter what
Speaker 1: I think, what Liam is saying to people is you
Speaker 1: need to be true to yourself. People will have reactions,
Speaker 1: people will do what they're going to do, but at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, how do you free yourself?
Speaker 1: You need to be true to yourself. You're listening to
Speaker 1: Dear Therapists for my Heart Radio. We'll be back after
Speaker 1: a short break. So guy, the last person we're going
Speaker 1: to hear from today also is struggling to free herself
Speaker 1: and also has an issue with her sister.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was Hailey. Hailey lived by her parents and
Speaker 2: was the only one taking care of them. She had
Speaker 2: two sisters who lived further away, so it all kind
Speaker 2: of fell on her and had for years. And Hailey
Speaker 2: was really resentful because her parents kind of took it
Speaker 2: for granted. She didn't feel seen or heard, and then
Speaker 2: one of the sisters would fly in once a year
Speaker 2: and the parents treated it like a visit. For Mary
Speaker 2: Poppins and Hailey had a lot of feelings about it.
Speaker 2: Let's get a reminder of that session.
Speaker 1: I think that there's still a yearning for you to
Speaker 1: have them appreciate who you are as a person. And
Speaker 1: so when your sister comes in and you said, like
Speaker 1: Mary Poppins, and what they see is not just everything
Speaker 1: she's doing that week, but I think that you have
Speaker 1: a sense they see something else in her that they
Speaker 1: haven't really looked hard enough to see in you.
Speaker 7: Sometimes I think I should ask them more questions, because
Speaker 7: that's what Jill does when she's there. She writes questions
Speaker 7: for the night and has people discuss memories and labels
Speaker 7: the antiques and.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, she is Mary Poppins.
Speaker 9: Yeah. I can't compete with that.
Speaker 7: I don't know how to do that.
Speaker 1: And I remember one of the things we talked about
Speaker 1: with Hailey was the fact that sometimes when people don't
Speaker 1: appreciate you, you don't realize that you have that right
Speaker 1: in front of you, and sometimes you take that for granted.
Speaker 1: And so one of the things we asked about was
Speaker 1: where she was getting that in her life, and she
Speaker 1: started talking about her husband that he was very supportive
Speaker 1: of her and she also wanted to feel closer with him,
Speaker 1: and I remember we gave her that exercise to really
Speaker 1: share with each other what they appreciated about one another.
Speaker 1: And after the first week, she was so excited about that.
Speaker 1: She said it had gone very well. It made her
Speaker 1: feel so good, and it made him feel so good.
Speaker 1: And let's hear now where Haley is with everyone in
Speaker 1: her family.
Speaker 9: Hi, Laurie and Guy, it's Haley.
Speaker 13: Your invitation to reconnect could not have come at a
Speaker 13: better time.
Speaker 9: Mostly it's with my husband.
Speaker 13: I have not followed through on your advice of appreciating
Speaker 13: him having him tell me what he appreciates about me.
Speaker 13: And I realized the assignment was only for a week,
Speaker 13: and hey, that was a great week.
Speaker 9: I think I have said to.
Speaker 13: Him several times, you know, we need to work on this.
Speaker 13: I want to feel closer to you. Let's at least
Speaker 13: start doing this thing that Guy and Laurie suggested I
Speaker 13: do and tell each other what we appreciate about each other,
Speaker 13: because I really do need to hear that from him,
Speaker 13: and I would really like to feel comfortable with feeling
Speaker 13: intimate with my husband, which is it's work. I'll admit
Speaker 13: that's work. Because I was not trained in this way,
Speaker 13: you know, Laurie.
Speaker 2: It's so common and we see this all the time
Speaker 2: with couples we work with that couples will try something
Speaker 2: that works for them and they'll say, wow, that really worked,
Speaker 2: But then they'll fall out of the hat really quickly
Speaker 2: and go back to something that didn't work and created
Speaker 2: more distance. And people might think, but if Haley felt
Speaker 2: that that was really useful, why didn't you just keep
Speaker 2: doing it? And there are many reasons people fall back
Speaker 2: into the world habits. First, as Haley mentioned, you're doing
Speaker 2: something that doesn't come naturally, so it requires some kind
Speaker 2: of emotional effort and the cooperation of the other person
Speaker 2: in this case, so it's not that easy. And the
Speaker 2: other part is that once we get our partner to
Speaker 2: do something that is better for us, we often have
Speaker 2: this fantasy that, well, they see it's better for us,
Speaker 2: they should keep doing it naturally because they know it
Speaker 2: makes me happy. But it's just as hard for Hade's
Speaker 2: husband to keep it up as it is for Hayley,
Speaker 2: because again, it's not something that comes naturally, either to
Speaker 2: them individually or to them in their couple dynamic.
Speaker 1: Right now, right I don't see this as discouraging it
Speaker 1: all for those reasons, because I think it's hard to
Speaker 1: go out of our comfort zones, and here you have
Speaker 1: two people who are trying to do that. And I
Speaker 1: remember when she reported back after the first week, they
Speaker 1: both really enjoyed the appreciation exercise. They both seem to
Speaker 1: have gotten a lot out of it. Her husband sounded
Speaker 1: so willing, you know, it wasn't like she had to
Speaker 1: force him to do it or try to convince him
Speaker 1: to do it. And so I'm glad that she is
Speaker 1: continuing to voice this to him because he does seem willing,
Speaker 1: and she realizes that she needs to take an active
Speaker 1: role in this request.
Speaker 2: And one way to take an active role is to
Speaker 2: schedule the exercise and do it at specific times, like
Speaker 2: I don't know, every Friday and Monday, say to end
Speaker 2: and start the week, because then it becomes more automatic
Speaker 2: and something they can both look forward to.
Speaker 1: One of the nice things about this appreciation exercise is
Speaker 1: that we're not saying go have a heavy talk about
Speaker 1: everything that's not working in your relationship, which you know
Speaker 1: some couples are needing to deal with. They actually have
Speaker 1: a really nice relationship. What they want is they want
Speaker 1: more closeness, and I think that that appreciation piece and
Speaker 1: not feeling alone is really important to Haley. So this
Speaker 1: isn't a talk that people dread. This is a we're
Speaker 1: going to schedule twice a week at the beginning and
Speaker 1: end of the week where we have a time where
Speaker 1: someone's going to tell me some really nice things about me.
Speaker 6: That's something that people look forward to.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, let's hear some more from Haylee.
Speaker 9: So on to my parents.
Speaker 13: One of the things I found most valuable in re
Speaker 13: listening to the podcast was that metaphor that I made
Speaker 13: up about this currency that I have and maybe my
Speaker 13: dad doesn't appreciate this currency, like I'm a Euro and
Speaker 13: he's a rupee and he doesn't value my currency, And
Speaker 13: that was just such a great reminder about my own worth.
Speaker 9: So in that way it was very helpful.
Speaker 13: And just hearing your kind voices again and all of
Speaker 13: your praise about that I'm a great listener and then
Speaker 13: I write good metaphors, that was just very nice to hear.
Speaker 13: On a final note, the whole thing makes me realize
Speaker 13: how often I kind of walk around with my hand
Speaker 13: out like, oh please like me, oh please like me, Oh,
Speaker 13: please like me? Overdoing things for people, over you know,
Speaker 13: like I said with my parents, entertaining, like I'm a
Speaker 13: fool with a juggling ball and plates everywhere I go,
Speaker 13: trying to get people to like me.
Speaker 9: And I really shouldn't have to try that hard.
Speaker 13: I should really value my own currency and see my
Speaker 13: own worth, which I think speaks to the whole issue
Speaker 13: like how do you survive growing up in a house
Speaker 13: where people didn't value your currency and then become an
Speaker 13: adult and learn how to value your currency, which is
Speaker 13: why it hurts so bad when you know, Mary Poppins
Speaker 13: comes in and everybody loves Mary Poppins.
Speaker 1: So I think what we see with Haley here is
Speaker 1: how strong the pull of our own history can be,
Speaker 1: where our old habits and our old dynamics come back in,
Speaker 1: and how often what we do is we take a
Speaker 1: few steps forward and then we slip back. And I
Speaker 1: think that the lesson here is that when you are
Speaker 1: making a change, you should know that you will slip
Speaker 1: back sometimes, that it's not a linear progression, and that
Speaker 1: you have to have a lot of compassion for yourself
Speaker 1: and say, okay, so I slip back, and now I'm
Speaker 1: going to get back on track. And I think that
Speaker 1: it's not a sign that a lot of people take
Speaker 1: of well, I slip back, so I can't do this.
Speaker 1: You absolutely can do this, and this is just part
Speaker 1: of the process.
Speaker 2: And you know what I say to people all the time,
Speaker 2: and they don't believe me until they's right, and then
Speaker 2: they go, oh yeah, right. Is that the same ease
Speaker 2: and the same quickness with which you can slip off track,
Speaker 2: with which you can go back to the old habits.
Speaker 2: It's true that you can then slip back on the
Speaker 2: right path that quickly as well, because we know for
Speaker 2: Haley that one week of doing the appreciation exercise with
Speaker 2: her husband and changing the dynamics with her parents made
Speaker 2: a real difference. It took her a week to make
Speaker 2: that change. It will take less than a week to
Speaker 2: change back into that way of thinking and doing. And
Speaker 2: so the message to all our listeners is if you
Speaker 2: started a new habit and you dinas with your partner
Speaker 2: or with your family, and you slip out of it,
Speaker 2: it's just as easy to slip back in. So let's
Speaker 2: see the end of Haley's update.
Speaker 13: I am probably going to listen to this podcast now
Speaker 13: every every other month, just the advice part to make
Speaker 13: sure that I stay on track, to make sure that
Speaker 13: I remember this feeling of self worth I guess is
Speaker 13: what that currency thing gets down to, and to staying there,
Speaker 13: and also to working on the relationship with my husband
Speaker 13: and feeling more comfortable being intimate.
Speaker 9: And I want to thank.
Speaker 13: You both again for your time and your insight and
Speaker 13: choosing my letter out of all the ones I'm sure
Speaker 13: you get, because if I let it, it really could.
Speaker 9: Change my life.
Speaker 1: So this is exactly what we were saying that as therapists,
Speaker 1: we assume that repetition will be required, and that when
Speaker 1: you don't have a therapist to keep you on track
Speaker 1: and remind you that you're going off track, you have
Speaker 1: to find other reminders. And for Haley, listening to the
Speaker 1: podcast once a month is a great way for her
Speaker 1: to do that.
Speaker 2: And for our listeners who are dealing with creating change
Speaker 2: in their own lives, schedule a monthly check in your
Speaker 2: calendar in which you ask yourself, have I been keeping
Speaker 2: up with my new habit or my new intention or
Speaker 2: my new form of communicating the new dynamic whatever it
Speaker 2: is you're trying to change, Have you been keeping up
Speaker 2: with it. Have you been keeping up with all the
Speaker 2: necessary support systems you have in place to facilitate that
Speaker 2: check in with yourself, because you've had decades of establishing
Speaker 2: sometimes poor habits, and to free yourselves from those, you
Speaker 2: really need to check in regularly, at least at the beginning,
Speaker 2: to make sure you're developing the new habits that are
Speaker 2: best for your emotional health.
Speaker 1: We've heard a lot about freedom in today's updates, and
Speaker 1: it's so great to hear how people are doing a
Speaker 1: year later. We become very attached to the people that
Speaker 1: we talk to in their sessions, and we think about
Speaker 1: them and we wonder how they're doing.
Speaker 6: And I know that our listeners do too, and.
Speaker 1: I hope that our listeners are gaining something from hearing
Speaker 1: these updates, just like they do when they hear our
Speaker 1: initial sessions.
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm so grateful to Haley, also, because
Speaker 2: she reminded us all of something very important. That change
Speaker 2: requires maintenance, and that's something we should all keep in mind.
Speaker 1: I love hearing these updates a year later, So we
Speaker 1: will be bringing more updates later in the season.
Speaker 6: But next week we will be.
Speaker 1: Back to our regular sessions and we'll be hearing from
Speaker 1: a woman who comes to us to talk about her
Speaker 1: ex husband, who she believes is a narcissist.
Speaker 14: And he said, so, I have four major stressors in
Speaker 14: my life. My marriage, my health, my work, and that
Speaker 14: I'm a father. He said, one of those things is
Speaker 14: on the chopping block, and that's the marriage.
Speaker 1: Hey, fellow travelers, if you're enjoying our podcast each week,
Speaker 1: we don't forget to subscribe for free so that you
Speaker 1: don't miss any episodes, and please help support Dear Therapists
Speaker 1: by telling your friends about it and leaving a review
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 6: Your reviews really help people to find the show.
Speaker 2: If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,
Speaker 2: Bigo Smooth, email us at Lorian Guy at iHeartMedia dot com.
Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Noel Brown. We're produced and edited
Speaker 1: by Mike Johns, Josh Fisher, and Chris Childs. Our interns
Speaker 1: are Dorit Corwin and Silver Lifton. Special thanks to Alison
Speaker 1: Wright and to our podcast fairy Godmother Katie Couric.
Speaker 2: We can't wait to see you at next week's session.
Speaker 1: Dear Therapist is a production of iHeartRadio