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Speaker 1: Hey to your Therapist listeners. It's Lori and Guy and

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Speaker 1: we have a quick update.

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Speaker 2: Many of you have told us that you get something

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Speaker 2: new out of each episode when you listen to it

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Speaker 2: again the second or third time. In fact, when we

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Speaker 2: listen to the episodes again, we also get takeaways we

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Speaker 2: didn't remember.

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Speaker 1: We're They're therapy is like that too. There are so

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Speaker 1: many learning moments in a session, and it's difficult to

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Speaker 1: absorb them all at once. So while we're not taping

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Speaker 1: new episodes right now, we are offering you our most

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Speaker 1: popular sessions as encores so that you can continue to

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Speaker 1: gain value from them.

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Speaker 2: We love doing the Therapists episodes, but we're each busy

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Speaker 2: with new and exciting projects that we hope you will

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Speaker 2: love just as much.

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Speaker 1: I have a new advice podcast called Since You Asked,

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Speaker 1: which you can get wherever you listen to podcasts.

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Speaker 2: And I have a new book coming out. It's called

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Speaker 2: Mind Overgrind, How to Break Free when work Hijacks your life,

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Speaker 2: and it will be published by Simon and Schuster. You

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Speaker 2: can find out more about it on my website.

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Speaker 1: You can learn more about these on our socials. And meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: we hope you find these Dear Therapist sessions as valuable

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Speaker 1: as we have making them for you. Hey, fellow travelers,

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Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should

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Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice

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Speaker 1: column for The Atlantic.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid,

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Speaker 2: and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted.

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Speaker 2: And this is Dear Therapists.

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Speaker 1: Each week we invite you into a session so you

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Speaker 1: can learn more about yourself by hearing how we help

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Speaker 1: other people come to understand themselves better and make changes

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Speaker 1: in their lives.

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Speaker 2: So sit back and welcome to today's session.

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Speaker 1: This week we'll get updates from last season sessions to

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Speaker 1: find out how our advice worked out.

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Speaker 3: A year later, Guy had said that he didn't think

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Speaker 3: I understood how bad it had been, and then Laurie

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Speaker 3: actually later on said that oftentimes people are hesitant to

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Speaker 3: confront those painful well experiences because of what it might

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Speaker 3: say about them. And I'll be honest, that was a

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Speaker 3: really hard one. But getting unstuck is also what's opened

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Speaker 3: myself up a lot more to finally feeling happy and hopeful.

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Speaker 2: First, a quick note deo therapist is for informational purposes only,

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Speaker 2: does not constitute medical or psychological advice, and it's not

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Speaker 2: a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always

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Speaker 2: seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional, or

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Speaker 2: other qualified health provider with any questions you may have

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Speaker 2: regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter,

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Speaker 2: you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia use it in part

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Speaker 2: or in full, and we may edit it for length

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Speaker 2: and clarity. And the sessions you'll hear all names have

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Speaker 2: been changed for the privacy of our fellow travelers.

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Speaker 4: Hi.

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Speaker 2: Guy, Hey Laurie.

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Speaker 5: So Guy.

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited because today we're doing another special episode

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Speaker 1: where we are hearing updates from our season one sessions

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Speaker 1: and the theme of today is freeing yourself.

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Speaker 2: Is an important theme and the first person we're going

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Speaker 2: to hear from is Elena. Elena, to remind our listeners,

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Speaker 2: came to us to get help because she had a

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Speaker 2: chronically cheating husband who she had been with for seventy years.

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Speaker 2: And by chronically cheating, I literally mean could enter the

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Speaker 2: cheating Olympics with how much cheating was going on.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I remember that they would go to a therapy

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Speaker 1: session and he would say, Okay, I'm not going to cheat,

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Speaker 1: and then within twenty four hours he would be cheating again.

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Speaker 2: Right, So let's get a reminder of what was going

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Speaker 2: on for Elena in last year's session.

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Speaker 4: So it has come out that the relations have been

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Speaker 4: with men. However, my husband is very closed off. He

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Speaker 4: kind of just wanted to go away. He doesn't want

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Speaker 4: to discuss it in detail. He acknowledges that it happened,

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Speaker 4: yet he doesn't want to talk about it. He just

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Speaker 4: kind of wants to forget about it. Then there's that

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Speaker 4: wall built, that avoidancy of him not talking about it,

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Speaker 4: shutting down for a few to discuss it, and eventually

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Speaker 4: he'll leave the home or the other side where he's

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Speaker 4: angry and super defensive. The other side of it is

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Speaker 4: when we're in therapy, it's like a twitch, like he'll

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Speaker 4: talk about it and he'll say he feels attacked, or

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Speaker 4: he feels like he's disgusting, or he feels that I

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Speaker 4: find him disgusting. Kind of working through how he feels.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was not a good situation. So I am

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Speaker 2: very curious to hear where Elena is today.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, let's take a listen.

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Speaker 5: My name is Elena, and I called and spoke with

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Speaker 5: Lauri and Guy in regards to my husband who was

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Speaker 5: having affairs, and I was also stationed overseas, so I

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Speaker 5: was isolated away from any family and friends and really

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Speaker 5: any support system to confide in and deal with you

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Speaker 5: all that which was going on. So since I've spoken

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Speaker 5: with them, it's been a little over a year. My

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Speaker 5: husband and I are no longer together. We've separated officially

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Speaker 5: just a few months after I spoke with Glory Guy,

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Speaker 5: and then the divorce was finalized in October of twenty twenty,

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Speaker 5: So is pretty quick.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that is very quick. That's less than a year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And on the one hand, I'm a little bit

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Speaker 1: surprised that it was that quick because she was so

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Speaker 1: reluctant to make a move.

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Speaker 6: When we talked.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's interesting because you and I felt

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Speaker 1: like he's not changing. She's been through so much with him,

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Speaker 1: and he is not interested in changing. So sometimes people say,

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Speaker 1: why won't this person change even though they say they

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Speaker 1: want to change. I think he knew he didn't want

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Speaker 1: to change, but he wasn't willing to say that to

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Speaker 1: her because of the consequence which is that she would

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Speaker 1: probably leave. And sometimes therapists, you know, we don't tell

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Speaker 1: people whether to stay in marriages or leave, but when

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Speaker 1: they're so problematic and there is so much suffering, we

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Speaker 1: hope that someone will come to that conclusion to save themselves.

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Speaker 1: And when Elena came to us, she seemed clear that

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Speaker 1: she was done, but she also wasn't ready to move

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Speaker 1: forward because I think she had so much grieving to

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Speaker 1: be done.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we often don't say to someone, hey, you should

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Speaker 2: really leave this marriage, but we will leave a trail

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Speaker 2: of bread crumbs leading them to that conclusion if it's warranted.

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Speaker 2: In this case, it wasn't even bread crumbs. Loaves of

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Speaker 2: bread led a trail to like, hey, Elena, get out.

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Speaker 1: And I want to be clear that we aren't there

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Speaker 1: to decide for people what they should do. So when

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Speaker 1: we say we leave the bread crumbs, it's not as

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Speaker 1: though we think we know best for them, because there

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Speaker 1: are people who they would rather be in a situation

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Speaker 1: that maybe you or I guy would say, oh that's

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Speaker 1: not for me, but it is for them, and even

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Speaker 1: though it's not ideal, it's problematic, they would rather be

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Speaker 1: in that for whatever reason. So we want them to

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Speaker 1: ask the important questions of themselves so they can come

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Speaker 1: to their own conclusion about what they want to do.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I think the breadcrumbs are.

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Speaker 2: The thing is about Elena is that she actually knew

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Speaker 2: that this was really bad for her, that he wasn't changing,

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Speaker 2: that this wasn't working. The thing she really struggled to

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Speaker 2: do was to cut the cord and make the decision.

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Speaker 2: And given how quickly the divorce was finalized after speaking

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Speaker 2: with her, just months after we spoke with her, I

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Speaker 2: am so curious to hear what happened.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I am too.

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Speaker 5: So what happened is so we were living in Italy

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Speaker 5: overseas and March then my husband got called back to

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Speaker 5: the States. Well, I and his children from a previous

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Speaker 5: marriage were left in Italy when he went back to

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Speaker 5: the States and the country went into complete shutdown. We

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Speaker 5: were unable to leave the country and get back home,

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Speaker 5: and that just increased the stress in our relationship at

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Speaker 5: the time, but also just me being the only adult

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Speaker 5: in the household with three kids depending on me. I'm

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Speaker 5: not the biological mother, but you know, the step parent.

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Speaker 5: There further complicated things were my husband wasn't really communicating

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Speaker 5: during this time. He wasn't calling us on the phone,

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Speaker 5: he wouldn't answer I don't know messages. Really really kind

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Speaker 5: of left alone, you know, with the stresses of going

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Speaker 5: to school online and three different kids in three different grades,

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Speaker 5: three different schools. You know, I was really overwhelmed. That

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Speaker 5: was something that my husband couldn't be empathetic about, and

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Speaker 5: so that really hurt the marriage further.

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Speaker 2: So Wow, and there are a couple of wow moments

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Speaker 2: for me, I guess the biggest one is that we

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Speaker 2: didn't know there were kids in the picture. Now, in

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Speaker 2: regular psychotherapy, we get to ask a lot of background

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Speaker 2: questions and we will find out very soon if there

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Speaker 2: were children or any other people that are relevant in

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Speaker 2: the picture. But in the sessions we do for the podcast,

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Speaker 2: we only have a very short amount of time, and

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Speaker 2: there was nothing in what she was telling us to

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Speaker 2: indicate that there were children there, and certainly that there

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Speaker 2: were his children from a previous marriage, and even more

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Speaker 2: so that she was a big part of taking care

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Speaker 2: of them. That is a big surprise for me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is such a surprise that we had that

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Speaker 1: entire session with her and not want did it come

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Speaker 1: up that he had kids from another marriage, and it's

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Speaker 1: not uncommon for people to leave things out in sessions,

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Speaker 1: even when we are seeing them for psychotherapy. And I

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Speaker 1: think that the reason that people leave things out is

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Speaker 1: because if they bring something up, it forces them to

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Speaker 1: face a truth that they might not be ready to.

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Speaker 1: And so for Elena, if she had added this information that, oh,

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Speaker 1: by the way, not only is he chronically cheating on

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Speaker 1: me and lying to me and gaslighting me and calling

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Speaker 1: me crazy, but also I'm taking care of his three kids,

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Speaker 1: And if she had added that, it would be even

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Speaker 1: more clear how untenable the situation was at a point

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Speaker 1: when she wasn't quite ready to face it entirely.

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Speaker 2: And the fact that while he was in America and

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Speaker 2: Elena was taking care of his three kids, he wasn't

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Speaker 2: reaching out even to be in touch with his kids,

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Speaker 2: so he was abandoning the kids as well, just shows

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Speaker 2: such a complete disregard for his family relationships and how

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Speaker 2: much he was incredibly focused on himself and on what

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Speaker 2: he wanted and needed in that time and truly shut

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Speaker 2: everyone else out, including apparently Elena, not just Elena.

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Speaker 1: And even then, even with the anxiety that she must

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Speaker 1: have been experiencing to be with his kids and to

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Speaker 1: be so far away and to not know what was

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Speaker 1: going on with him, and to not be in any

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Speaker 1: contact with him. That just incredibly anxiety provoking. And still

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Speaker 1: she was not ready to leave. So let's hear what

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Speaker 1: happened next.

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Speaker 5: And then, you know, I found out that while he's

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Speaker 5: in America and I'm in Italy with his kids, he's

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Speaker 5: having affairs still, and he was open to me about

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Speaker 5: that that he was seeing someone, and not just one time,

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Speaker 5: but multiple times. When it was time that we could

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Speaker 5: finally leave the country to come back to America, I

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Speaker 5: asked him not to pick me up at the airport.

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Speaker 5: I just needed some time to myself to kind of

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Speaker 5: really decide if I wanted to move forward. So I

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Speaker 5: think I landed on a Tuesday, and then on that

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Speaker 5: Thursday is when he told me he no longer wanted

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Speaker 5: to work on the relationship. And that's something that I

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Speaker 5: struggle with because I know that our marriage ended because

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Speaker 5: he chose to walk away, and I don't know if

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Speaker 5: that's something that I could have done eventually or maybe

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Speaker 5: in six months, maybe in a year, maybe in three years.

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Speaker 5: It's something that I kind of struggle with knowing what

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Speaker 5: is in my past or what is going on internally.

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Speaker 5: That made me stay in that relationship for as long

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Speaker 5: as I did, with as much toxicity in it that

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Speaker 5: there was. You know, it was definitely something that needed

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Speaker 5: to happen, and I think the timing was well when

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Speaker 5: it happened. It was just I wasn't there yet. I

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Speaker 5: wasn't ready to walk away yet, and it was It

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Speaker 5: was very difficult for me, So I can't take the

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Speaker 5: credit of walking away from that relationship. But now I

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Speaker 5: am understanding that it needed to happen and it was

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Speaker 5: for the best.

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Speaker 1: So here again, even with him not being a real

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Speaker 1: partner and communicating during COVID while she's alone with his

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Speaker 1: three kids and telling her he was sleeping with other people,

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Speaker 1: Elena still wasn't ready to leave him, and it's going

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Speaker 1: to be very important for her to understand why that is.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad that she's asking herself that question. I remember

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Speaker 1: session she mentioned that her mother had been cheated on

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Speaker 1: as well, and so I'm guessing that there's some intergenerational

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Speaker 1: pattern or trauma that's being played out here that she's

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Speaker 1: going to have to understand better.

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Speaker 2: I think part of why Elena really couldn't leave, And

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Speaker 2: I certainly understand why it's upsetting for her that, given everything,

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Speaker 2: he was the one to break up with her. But

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Speaker 2: when you live with somebody who's gaslighting you so profoundly

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Speaker 2: and for such a long time, doing outrageous, outrageous things,

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Speaker 2: and telling you that your reactions are outrageous or out

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Speaker 2: of control or you're the crazy one, it makes you

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Speaker 2: lose touch with your internal compass. You no longer know

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Speaker 2: what's up and what's down, on what's right and what's wrong.

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Speaker 2: And even if you think you're justified, you're just not

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Speaker 2: sure because all you hear is that's an overreaction, you're

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Speaker 2: out of control, you're crazy. And I think over the

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Speaker 2: years what happened to Elena is she just lost all perspective. Now,

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Speaker 2: we gave her an assignment to help get some of

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Speaker 2: that back, but I think that loss for her was profound.

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Speaker 2: She simply couldn't trust herself, and she didn't trust herself

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Speaker 2: to make that decision, especially when she was still isolated

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Speaker 2: in a foreign country. I think she lost all ability

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Speaker 2: to be in touch with what reality is and what's reasonable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the isolation was a big part of it, and

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Speaker 1: that's why we had her tell her friends what was

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Speaker 1: going on so she could get a reality check on that.

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Speaker 1: And we also had her write down every incident that

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Speaker 1: happened so that she could see it on the page,

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Speaker 1: which also helps with reality checking. But then you still

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Speaker 1: have him coming in saying, Oh, you're getting upset about

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Speaker 1: this thing. You're overreacting what's happening. You're crazy, And you

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Speaker 1: know that goes on for years and years, and it

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Speaker 1: becomes very hard to locate your internal compass.

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Speaker 2: And I guess in that way, his leaving was a

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Speaker 2: gift for her because she wasn't able to and maybe

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Speaker 2: she would have become more able to once she got back,

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Speaker 2: but him leaving and doing it so abruptly and so

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Speaker 2: much in line with his other inconsiderate, really selfish actions,

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Speaker 2: I think was nonetheless a gift. Because she wasn't able

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Speaker 2: to push the eject button. He pushed it for her.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, and I think she needs to reframe it that way.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people feel like, I've been

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Speaker 1: through all of this with you, and you're the one

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Speaker 1: who's dumping me, which is I think what she kind

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Speaker 1: of grapples with a little bit here, and what I

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Speaker 1: want to say to Elena is this absolutely was a

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Speaker 1: gift to her. I hope that she will consider it

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Speaker 1: that and especially moving forward when she experiences and tastes

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Speaker 1: her freedom, I think she's going to see it more

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Speaker 1: and more as a gift.

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Speaker 2: So let's here's the more. There's more from Elena. Let's

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Speaker 2: here what happens next.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, so he still oversees and I am a

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Speaker 5: stateside in a city with friends and family. When I

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Speaker 5: got back to the States, my family and friends threw

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Speaker 5: me a big welcome home party. I just broke down

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Speaker 5: in tears with the amount of love that was shut

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Speaker 5: on me. They're at that party. Since all of this,

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Speaker 5: I've met someone super wonderful and great. They've been really

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Speaker 5: patient with my healing process of everything.

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Speaker 1: I love hearing this because once you leave a situation

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Speaker 1: like that, you often find the people who are there

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Speaker 1: for you and who want to meet your needs. So

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Speaker 1: that great reception and homecoming from family and friends, and

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Speaker 1: now a new boyfriend who's there for her and having

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Speaker 1: that understanding with her healing process, I'm just so delighted

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Speaker 1: to hear this.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's not a coincidence that once she

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Speaker 2: was able to receive in person and true love and

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Speaker 2: care from the people around her, then it opened her

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Speaker 2: up and allowed her to receive it from a romantic

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Speaker 2: partner as well.

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Speaker 1: That's right, there's a two way dynamic going on, which

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Speaker 1: is not only when you're in that situation can you

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Speaker 1: not see things clearly, but you're not open to the

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Speaker 1: kind of person who's going to give you what you

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Speaker 1: want and what you need. And once she was out

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Speaker 1: of that situation, that opened her up to the possibility

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Speaker 1: of something new, and Elena had a little bit more

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Speaker 1: to say.

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Speaker 6: Let's hear what that is.

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Speaker 5: Some of the things that I took away were at

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Speaker 5: one point they said that I was having these big

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Speaker 5: emotional reactions to traumatic events, and that validated my feelings

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Speaker 5: of like, yeah, these are big traumatic events, and you know,

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Speaker 5: having an emotional reaction is okay, because at that point,

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Speaker 5: I'd been called crazy. I'd been called out of control

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Speaker 5: so often that I felt that, well, maybe I am irrational,

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Speaker 5: maybe I am crazy. But when they kind of said that,

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Speaker 5: that really helped validate my feelings. You know, also with

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Speaker 5: my husband calling me out of control all the time,

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Speaker 5: you're out of control, you know, guy, said, well, aren't

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Speaker 5: his actions out of control? And so that really validated

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Speaker 5: for me those feelings.

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Speaker 1: Yes, this is exactly what we were talking about. I'm

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Speaker 1: so glad she can see that.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. That's really good to hear that she's clear about

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Speaker 2: those things. So there's just one last piece I think

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Speaker 2: that we haven't heard yet. Let's hear the end and

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Speaker 2: have things out really in now.

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Speaker 5: The other thing that I've done, I guess, is create

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Speaker 5: boundaries in my life in other relationships, So with family

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Speaker 5: members that I needed to have boundaries, and then also

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Speaker 5: with friendships even I've had to put some boundaries. And

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Speaker 5: then even as far as getting back into dating after

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Speaker 5: the divorce, I would see those all too familiar red

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Speaker 5: flags and know like, okay, I've been here, done that. No,

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Speaker 5: thank you, this is a boundary for me and this

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Speaker 5: is acceptable. So that's really you know, I can't thank

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Speaker 5: Glory and Guy enough for what they've done in my life,

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Speaker 5: and hopefully my story has had some impact on someone

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Speaker 5: else's life, and I just really appreciate this avenue here

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Speaker 5: for people to listen or to hear from you guys

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Speaker 5: in something that they might really be struggling with.

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Speaker 4: So thank you.

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Speaker 7: So much glory and.

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Speaker 6: Guy right so here again.

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Speaker 1: Once you become aware of what you need, you feel

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Speaker 1: empowered to ask for that in relationships going forward, and

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Speaker 1: you won't settle for less. And she found someone who

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Speaker 1: seems to meet those desires that she has about how

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Speaker 1: she wants to be treated, about honesty, about presence, about connection.

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Speaker 1: And the reason that we do this podcast is that

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Speaker 1: we feel that each person's story in session does impact

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Speaker 1: someone else's life. And there are many Elena's out there

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Speaker 1: who have been lied to, are lighted, and we really

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Speaker 1: hope that this session is helpful to them.

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Speaker 2: So thank you Elena for coming on and sharing your

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Speaker 2: story with us and with our listeners. And you know

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Speaker 2: that exercise we gave you to think about a good

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Speaker 2: life you might have in five years time. We actually

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Speaker 2: think it might be quite good now. Absolutely, you're listening

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Speaker 2: to Deo Therapists from iHeartRadio. We'll be back after a

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Speaker 2: quick break.

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Speaker 6: I'm Lori Gottlieb and.

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Speaker 2: I'm Guy Wench and this is Deo Therapist.

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Speaker 6: So let's hear our next update.

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Speaker 1: Our next fellow traveler from season one also had to

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Speaker 1: free herself, but this time it was from the pressure

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Speaker 1: that she was putting on herself. And I love this

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Speaker 1: one because Libby was only sixteen, but she knew something

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Speaker 1: had to change.

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Speaker 2: And I love it because that same insight took me

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Speaker 2: probably a couple of decades longer than Libby to figure

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Speaker 2: out me too. So just as a reminder, Livy was

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Speaker 2: a junior in high school and she was putting a

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Speaker 2: lot of pressure on herself to do super well, so

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Speaker 2: much so that she really didn't have much of life

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Speaker 2: and she was feeling very stressed out. And we helped

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Speaker 2: Libby s that real success means having ambition but also

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Speaker 2: having a life.

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Speaker 8: My course load is pretty heavy. I'm on the leadership

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Speaker 8: I think five different clubs at my school, and two

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Speaker 8: of them are extremely prominent, So I usually have about

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Speaker 8: like three meetings a week with that, and I also

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Speaker 8: volunteer at the food bank eight hours every Saturday. I

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Speaker 8: really do try to like put a lot of effort

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Speaker 8: into my school work. I do feel like the way

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Speaker 8: that like the college system and everything is kind of

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Speaker 8: set up is that you kind of have to go

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Speaker 8: through this in your teenage years, like there's not really

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Speaker 8: much time for taking it easier, just like taking a

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Speaker 8: step back, especially because I know so many other kids

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Speaker 8: are competing. It's just I do think I understand that

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Speaker 8: makes me happy. I don't know if I'm able to

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Speaker 8: do that to reach my goals.

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Speaker 1: She had put a lot of our advice into practice

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Speaker 1: that very first week and seemed to be doing better.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious to hear how she's doing now about a

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Speaker 1: year later.

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Speaker 9: Hi, guys, it's Libby here.

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Speaker 8: I just finished up junior year, and I can definitely

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Speaker 8: see improvement in myself, not just in grades or my resume,

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Speaker 8: but ultimately in my sense of self. School did get

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Speaker 8: a lot more stressful, and I did of those weeks

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Speaker 8: of crunch time, But the biggest change I made was

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Speaker 8: just letting my brain chill out by scheduling and time

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Speaker 8: to relax.

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Speaker 4: None mind.

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Speaker 8: I taught myself that this rest was a given, not

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Speaker 8: something I should feel guilty about. I tried to listen

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Speaker 8: to my body in my brain, and I recognized and

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Speaker 8: I was just tired and needed that rest. I began

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Speaker 8: treating myself like a friend who I wanted to help succeed.

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Speaker 2: Wow, that was great to hear. There's so many key

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Speaker 2: elements that are important in what Libby said. First of all,

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Speaker 2: she switched from self criticism when she felt the urge

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Speaker 2: to take a break to self compassion, which was a

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Speaker 2: very important move because then she's able to actually take

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Speaker 2: a break and not feel bad about it. She's also

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Speaker 2: paying attention to her body and how she's feeling, and

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Speaker 2: she's using that to signal her when she might need

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Speaker 2: to take a break, which is also another great move.

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Speaker 2: And the last thing, which I think is crucial for

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Speaker 2: so many people, is she's scheduling downtime. And for people

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Speaker 2: who have a lot on their plate, who tend to

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Speaker 2: be busy and overstressed, if you don't schedule downtime, if

438
00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:50,239
Speaker 2: you don't schedule me time or we time, it often

439
00:25:50,439 --> 00:25:51,239
Speaker 2: just doesn't happen.

440
00:25:52,319 --> 00:25:52,719
Speaker 6: That's right.

441
00:25:52,759 --> 00:25:56,599
Speaker 1: And she also reframed downtime as essential as opposed to

442
00:25:56,639 --> 00:25:59,839
Speaker 1: wasting time. So I think before she felt like, oh

443
00:25:59,919 --> 00:26:02,999
Speaker 1: if I do something that is relaxing, that I'm not

444
00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 1: being productive, And you think that that reframe helped to

445
00:26:06,479 --> 00:26:10,039
Speaker 1: minimize her guilt around taking the downtime and also being

446
00:26:10,079 --> 00:26:12,479
Speaker 1: able to benefit from it. And this is something that

447
00:26:12,639 --> 00:26:14,799
Speaker 1: highly driven people tend to struggle with.

448
00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:17,559
Speaker 2: Absolutely they do, and I'm one of them, and we

449
00:26:17,599 --> 00:26:18,759
Speaker 2: all need those reminders.

450
00:26:19,399 --> 00:26:20,239
Speaker 9: We do we do.

451
00:26:20,319 --> 00:26:22,119
Speaker 6: Sometimes here's a confession.

452
00:26:22,159 --> 00:26:24,959
Speaker 1: Sometimes I actually listened to this episode because I need

453
00:26:24,959 --> 00:26:26,719
Speaker 1: the reminders myself in my own life.

454
00:26:26,959 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 2: Right we called her Libby two. Libby Too was the

455
00:26:29,199 --> 00:26:32,559
Speaker 2: version that actually was more integrated and recognized the importance

456
00:26:32,599 --> 00:26:34,959
Speaker 2: of having a personal life. And sometimes I'll say to myself,

457
00:26:35,439 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 2: don't be Guy one, be Guy too. Right now, you

458
00:26:37,919 --> 00:26:44,279
Speaker 2: know and schedules name. Yeah, let's see what else we

459
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:45,039
Speaker 2: come down from Libby.

460
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,239
Speaker 8: My life was a lot of school and extracurriculars, yes,

461
00:26:48,719 --> 00:26:50,239
Speaker 8: but I can also pinpoint a lot of fun in

462
00:26:50,239 --> 00:26:53,039
Speaker 8: the last six months, dinner with an old friend or

463
00:26:53,199 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 8: a day out getting ice cream and driving with my

464
00:26:55,439 --> 00:26:59,519
Speaker 8: little brother. I feel moregoing, more capable, and more nuanced

465
00:26:59,519 --> 00:27:01,799
Speaker 8: as an individual after making my life less black and

466
00:27:01,839 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 8: white of things I had to do and making it

467
00:27:03,959 --> 00:27:06,999
Speaker 8: more con technicolor of things I wanted to do. Instead

468
00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:10,079
Speaker 8: of viewing this practice as self indulgent, of Luring Guy's

469
00:27:10,079 --> 00:27:13,959
Speaker 8: advice that this balance was the most important thing, Thank

470
00:27:13,999 --> 00:27:16,479
Speaker 8: you so much, Luring Guy. I'm going to try and

471
00:27:16,479 --> 00:27:19,479
Speaker 8: continue this path. I let my best Lebby shine through.

472
00:27:21,399 --> 00:27:23,959
Speaker 1: Well, the best Libby is definitely shining through, and I

473
00:27:24,039 --> 00:27:27,079
Speaker 1: love that she mentioned the word fun because I think

474
00:27:27,279 --> 00:27:30,759
Speaker 1: so many of us, as we get older, forget to

475
00:27:30,839 --> 00:27:33,559
Speaker 1: have fun, We forget that fun is an essential part

476
00:27:33,599 --> 00:27:35,599
Speaker 1: of our lives. We think I don't have time for that,

477
00:27:35,839 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: and we think it's optional. But it's not optional. And

478
00:27:39,239 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 1: so I think when we suggest a different perspective and

479
00:27:42,519 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 1: a way to reframe something, we can tell when somebody

480
00:27:45,959 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 1: really gets it. And it was clear in this episode

481
00:27:48,479 --> 00:27:51,239
Speaker 1: that Libby really got it. She said, you know, it clipped,

482
00:27:51,879 --> 00:27:53,759
Speaker 1: and once it does, then someone can make a whole

483
00:27:53,759 --> 00:27:57,039
Speaker 1: bunch of meaningful changes in lots of areas of their lives.

484
00:27:57,199 --> 00:27:59,519
Speaker 1: And you can see that Libby did that. And I

485
00:27:59,639 --> 00:28:04,479
Speaker 1: want our listeners to think this week about fun and

486
00:28:05,159 --> 00:28:07,199
Speaker 1: when they have fun, and if they're not having fun,

487
00:28:07,239 --> 00:28:08,839
Speaker 1: what can they do to have fun? And how can

488
00:28:08,839 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: they do it in the way that we suggested to Libby.

489
00:28:11,439 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: So it's not that you're dropping all of your responsibilities,

490
00:28:14,039 --> 00:28:16,719
Speaker 1: it's that one of your responsibilities is to have fun.

491
00:28:16,959 --> 00:28:18,719
Speaker 1: And I hope they'll re listen to the episode.

492
00:28:19,159 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 2: It's so important because while there are people who throughout

493
00:28:22,439 --> 00:28:26,279
Speaker 2: their lives can have fun naturally, most of us do

494
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,039
Speaker 2: get busy, do have responsibilities, and there has to be

495
00:28:29,079 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 2: a certain intentionality about clearing the space and having the

496
00:28:32,479 --> 00:28:36,279
Speaker 2: mindset for just letting loose and having fun. And I

497
00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:38,999
Speaker 2: am so glad that Libby has that in mind. And

498
00:28:39,039 --> 00:28:42,159
Speaker 2: I urge all our listeners who have high pressure or

499
00:28:42,239 --> 00:28:46,799
Speaker 2: high stressed situations or lots of responsibilities to really make

500
00:28:46,879 --> 00:28:51,799
Speaker 2: time and have the intention to truly have fun.

501
00:28:55,799 --> 00:28:58,719
Speaker 1: And while we're talking about fun, our next update of

502
00:28:59,759 --> 00:29:03,879
Speaker 1: a fellow traveler from season one is from Liam, and

503
00:29:03,919 --> 00:29:07,879
Speaker 1: we really wanted Liam to have fun at his sister's wedding,

504
00:29:08,519 --> 00:29:13,719
Speaker 1: but he also was really struggling with this concept of freedom.

505
00:29:14,399 --> 00:29:17,119
Speaker 2: Liam was transitioning from female to male, but he was

506
00:29:17,239 --> 00:29:20,199
Speaker 2: very early on in his transition, and it brought up

507
00:29:20,199 --> 00:29:23,239
Speaker 2: the question of what does he wear to his sister's

508
00:29:23,239 --> 00:29:27,279
Speaker 2: wedding because it had gotten postponed because of COVID and

509
00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:30,399
Speaker 2: was supposed to happen before the transition began, but now

510
00:29:30,399 --> 00:29:33,199
Speaker 2: that it had and now that it was still very early,

511
00:29:34,039 --> 00:29:36,919
Speaker 2: what does he wear that would make him comfortable that

512
00:29:36,959 --> 00:29:39,439
Speaker 2: his sister would be comfortable with. And that was the

513
00:29:39,439 --> 00:29:40,639
Speaker 2: conflict that he came.

514
00:29:40,519 --> 00:29:43,159
Speaker 1: To us with, right, so let's hear what was happening

515
00:29:43,159 --> 00:29:44,239
Speaker 1: with him last year.

516
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:48,519
Speaker 10: As much as my family is very accepting, I think

517
00:29:48,559 --> 00:29:51,599
Speaker 10: that this issue really it shows that they aren't as

518
00:29:51,639 --> 00:29:55,239
Speaker 10: accepting as they think they are. Like my mother will

519
00:29:55,239 --> 00:29:59,319
Speaker 10: go march for gay rights and all of these things,

520
00:29:59,359 --> 00:30:01,639
Speaker 10: but you know, as soon as her son comes out

521
00:30:01,679 --> 00:30:04,159
Speaker 10: to her that he is part of the transgender community,

522
00:30:04,599 --> 00:30:07,279
Speaker 10: that's where issues start arising. And then it's like, Okay,

523
00:30:07,319 --> 00:30:09,599
Speaker 10: well maybe you're not as accepting as you think that

524
00:30:09,679 --> 00:30:11,959
Speaker 10: you are. And I think that that is showing a

525
00:30:11,959 --> 00:30:16,399
Speaker 10: little bit. With my sister, she has traditional values. It's

526
00:30:16,439 --> 00:30:20,399
Speaker 10: harder for me to fit those traditional values and still

527
00:30:20,439 --> 00:30:21,439
Speaker 10: be true to myself.

528
00:30:21,599 --> 00:30:24,159
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this, what would it look

529
00:30:24,279 --> 00:30:26,679
Speaker 1: like to be true to yourself at Sarah's wedding?

530
00:30:27,639 --> 00:30:33,879
Speaker 10: What would make me feel comfortable? Would be wearing men's

531
00:30:33,919 --> 00:30:36,599
Speaker 10: formal wear. The day of her wedding, I will be

532
00:30:36,679 --> 00:30:42,759
Speaker 10: taking my seventh testosterone shot, So my mind is somewhere,

533
00:30:43,199 --> 00:30:46,679
Speaker 10: and then my outer appearance is I feel is being

534
00:30:46,719 --> 00:30:47,999
Speaker 10: stuffed back into a closet.

535
00:30:51,279 --> 00:30:52,879
Speaker 1: A lot of people said to us after they heard

536
00:30:52,879 --> 00:30:56,759
Speaker 1: this episode that even though a lot of the situations

537
00:30:56,799 --> 00:31:00,439
Speaker 1: in our podcast might not apply to them, that what

538
00:31:00,599 --> 00:31:03,319
Speaker 1: they heard in the podcast applied so much to their

539
00:31:03,359 --> 00:31:05,959
Speaker 1: own lives. So let's hear what happened with Liam, because

540
00:31:05,999 --> 00:31:09,479
Speaker 1: I think that it's going to be really relevant to

541
00:31:09,519 --> 00:31:12,199
Speaker 1: people who are both in LIAM situation and people who

542
00:31:12,239 --> 00:31:16,479
Speaker 1: maybe need to free themselves both externally and internally in

543
00:31:16,839 --> 00:31:17,559
Speaker 1: various ways.

544
00:31:17,959 --> 00:31:19,039
Speaker 11: Hi Laurie, Hi guy.

545
00:31:19,839 --> 00:31:21,719
Speaker 12: When I first came on the show, I think I

546
00:31:21,879 --> 00:31:25,959
Speaker 12: was about one month on testosterone. Now I'm about eight

547
00:31:25,999 --> 00:31:31,199
Speaker 12: months on testosterone. I'm constantly feeling better and better about

548
00:31:31,239 --> 00:31:36,519
Speaker 12: myself every day, emotionally and physically, so that's been really nice.

549
00:31:36,639 --> 00:31:40,799
Speaker 12: I do have more trands friends as well. It's really

550
00:31:40,879 --> 00:31:45,119
Speaker 12: nice having friends within my community that can really understand

551
00:31:45,439 --> 00:31:48,519
Speaker 12: the problems that I face. Just really nice to be

552
00:31:48,599 --> 00:31:53,119
Speaker 12: able to talk to somebody. And I also am pretty

553
00:31:53,199 --> 00:31:58,599
Speaker 12: much out at work. Everybody pretty much uses my real name,

554
00:31:58,759 --> 00:32:00,039
Speaker 12: which is really nice.

555
00:32:00,319 --> 00:32:01,839
Speaker 11: So I did follow the advice.

556
00:32:02,039 --> 00:32:04,959
Speaker 12: The first bit I've actually failed to mention when I

557
00:32:04,999 --> 00:32:08,599
Speaker 12: did my initial callback, which was to sit down with

558
00:32:08,639 --> 00:32:12,119
Speaker 12: Sarah and just say, hey, I am really excited for you.

559
00:32:12,559 --> 00:32:15,679
Speaker 12: Sorry if dagara lost in translation. The outfit is not

560
00:32:15,759 --> 00:32:19,119
Speaker 12: the focus. The focus is celebrating you and your husband

561
00:32:19,279 --> 00:32:22,639
Speaker 12: on your day. We did have that talk, and I

562
00:32:22,679 --> 00:32:25,799
Speaker 12: think it was a big sigh of relief for her.

563
00:32:26,159 --> 00:32:29,599
Speaker 12: I think it was really great that you guys pointed

564
00:32:29,639 --> 00:32:32,479
Speaker 12: out that she probably needed to hear that, because I

565
00:32:32,519 --> 00:32:33,399
Speaker 12: think she really did.

566
00:32:34,479 --> 00:32:37,879
Speaker 2: So I'm smiling because what Liam was referring to is

567
00:32:37,919 --> 00:32:42,119
Speaker 2: that his homework was to talk to his sister about

568
00:32:42,159 --> 00:32:45,159
Speaker 2: what he would wear, but to tell her that he

569
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:48,119
Speaker 2: was actually really excited about the wedding and excited for

570
00:32:48,159 --> 00:32:50,719
Speaker 2: her and all that stuff. And in the voicemail he

571
00:32:50,799 --> 00:32:53,879
Speaker 2: left us with the update that was included in that episode,

572
00:32:54,039 --> 00:32:56,359
Speaker 2: he forgot to mention that he did have that part

573
00:32:56,399 --> 00:32:58,399
Speaker 2: of the conversation, and he felt so bad about it.

574
00:32:58,759 --> 00:33:01,039
Speaker 2: He reached out to me on social media and said,

575
00:33:01,239 --> 00:33:02,959
Speaker 2: you know, I did tell her I was excited. I

576
00:33:03,039 --> 00:33:04,719
Speaker 2: did tell her that was the most important thing, and

577
00:33:04,759 --> 00:33:06,239
Speaker 2: I didn't mention that. And people are going to think

578
00:33:06,279 --> 00:33:08,399
Speaker 2: I'm terrible, and I'm like, no, no, no, I think

579
00:33:08,439 --> 00:33:10,919
Speaker 2: people know you really about your sister. But I'm so

580
00:33:11,039 --> 00:33:13,479
Speaker 2: glad we gave him this opportunity now to correct the

581
00:33:13,519 --> 00:33:15,919
Speaker 2: record and let people know that he was very focused

582
00:33:15,959 --> 00:33:19,039
Speaker 2: on the sister and her happiness and her husband, and

583
00:33:19,079 --> 00:33:21,639
Speaker 2: in that conversation we absolutely emphasize those things.

584
00:33:22,359 --> 00:33:25,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, and one thing I loved about that episode was

585
00:33:25,439 --> 00:33:28,079
Speaker 1: it was so clear how much Liam and his sister

586
00:33:28,919 --> 00:33:31,079
Speaker 1: cared about each other and loved each other and were

587
00:33:31,119 --> 00:33:35,839
Speaker 1: trying to be so respectful of one another, and they

588
00:33:35,879 --> 00:33:39,399
Speaker 1: both wanted the other person to be comfortable, and they

589
00:33:39,399 --> 00:33:41,799
Speaker 1: were sort of in a gridlock because of that. So

590
00:33:41,919 --> 00:33:44,599
Speaker 1: it was great that they were able to have that conversation.

591
00:33:45,119 --> 00:33:47,159
Speaker 1: And also going back to what Liam said about finding

592
00:33:47,199 --> 00:33:49,799
Speaker 1: a support network of other trans people, which was another

593
00:33:49,799 --> 00:33:53,679
Speaker 1: assignment that we had given him. We had suggested virtual

594
00:33:53,719 --> 00:33:55,999
Speaker 1: groups at the time, but he actually went and found

595
00:33:56,039 --> 00:33:58,799
Speaker 1: people in his community, which is of course much better.

596
00:33:59,399 --> 00:34:01,759
Speaker 1: Having that support as well as the support in his

597
00:34:01,799 --> 00:34:05,919
Speaker 1: family probably helped him to come out at work as well,

598
00:34:06,279 --> 00:34:08,639
Speaker 1: and so now that he's out everywhere, that's such an

599
00:34:08,679 --> 00:34:10,479
Speaker 1: important step in this process for him.

600
00:34:10,919 --> 00:34:13,399
Speaker 2: And also the reminder that the two things that are

601
00:34:13,439 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 2: really important and way more than too frankly, but two

602
00:34:16,279 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 2: things that are important is the correct pronouns and the

603
00:34:19,399 --> 00:34:21,479
Speaker 2: correct name. And the fact that he said people are

604
00:34:21,559 --> 00:34:25,079
Speaker 2: using his name at work his correct name at work

605
00:34:25,359 --> 00:34:27,599
Speaker 2: was also great to hear because that's a very meaningful thing.

606
00:34:28,839 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 2: So let's hear some more about what's happening with Liam.

607
00:34:31,759 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 12: You guys touched upon two things that have since stayed

608
00:34:35,399 --> 00:34:38,399
Speaker 12: with me. The first, I think Laurie was the one

609
00:34:38,479 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 12: that said, how I externalize an internal conflict, and I

610
00:34:44,479 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 12: think I have done that so much in the past.

611
00:34:47,479 --> 00:34:50,879
Speaker 12: I'm so grateful that she mentioned that because I've been

612
00:34:50,999 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 12: way more vigilant about it. It's just something that I

613
00:34:56,359 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 12: can see a past pattern that I've had, so I've

614
00:34:59,279 --> 00:35:03,599
Speaker 12: definitely been working on that and figuring that out. And

615
00:35:03,799 --> 00:35:07,079
Speaker 12: the second bit that sometimes I'm so empathetic that I

616
00:35:07,199 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 12: don't prioritize myself enough. That is also something I've seen

617
00:35:11,879 --> 00:35:15,639
Speaker 12: a pattern in my past about tremendously. I'm not going

618
00:35:15,679 --> 00:35:18,999
Speaker 12: to lose that empathy that I have for others, but

619
00:35:19,119 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 12: I'm also not going to allow it to be prioritized

620
00:35:24,519 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 12: in front of things I need to do for myself.

621
00:35:26,959 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 12: So those two things have really stayed with me.

622
00:35:31,399 --> 00:35:34,079
Speaker 1: I remember exactly when I said that to Liam in

623
00:35:34,199 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: the session. I was talking about how sometimes what we

624
00:35:39,319 --> 00:35:43,999
Speaker 1: think is an external conflict actually becomes an internalized conflict,

625
00:35:44,079 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 1: Meaning our culture tells us one thing, and we think

626
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,119
Speaker 1: that we're fighting the culture, which we are, but then

627
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,199
Speaker 1: we have bought into that so much that we're fighting

628
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,639
Speaker 1: ourselves at the same time. And so now he was

629
00:35:55,679 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 1: dealing with not just this outside conflict, but the one

630
00:35:58,399 --> 00:36:01,679
Speaker 1: that he had brought into himself, into his own psyche,

631
00:36:02,319 --> 00:36:05,119
Speaker 1: and he had to really tackle both of those things

632
00:36:05,159 --> 00:36:06,039
Speaker 1: at the same time.

633
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,679
Speaker 2: That's absolutely true, and it's true for anyone who is

634
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,959
Speaker 2: living their lives and their identities go against whatever culture

635
00:36:14,079 --> 00:36:16,399
Speaker 2: is that they were raised in, because we tend to

636
00:36:16,559 --> 00:36:19,199
Speaker 2: internalize the cultures we were raised in. That's the messaging

637
00:36:19,279 --> 00:36:22,599
Speaker 2: we've got for many, many formative years. When we go

638
00:36:22,679 --> 00:36:26,519
Speaker 2: against it, it actually takes a while to confront those differences,

639
00:36:26,519 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 2: both externally and especially internally.

640
00:36:30,399 --> 00:36:33,439
Speaker 1: When we talk about external we also are talking about

641
00:36:33,439 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 1: our families. So sometimes we'll get messages from our families

642
00:36:36,919 --> 00:36:42,199
Speaker 1: about who we are that we internalize, You're the sensitive

643
00:36:42,199 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 1: one in the family, you're the difficult one in the family,

644
00:36:44,759 --> 00:36:48,119
Speaker 1: whatever that identity is. And then we start to think, oh,

645
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:51,519
Speaker 1: maybe I'm too sensitive, maybe I'm too difficult. And so

646
00:36:51,559 --> 00:36:54,119
Speaker 1: we're fighting not just this perception that somebody else has

647
00:36:54,159 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: about us, but we're fighting the perception that now we

648
00:36:57,359 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 1: start to believe about ourselves as well.

649
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,119
Speaker 2: And it's an interesting exercise to sometimes take notes for

650
00:37:04,199 --> 00:37:07,039
Speaker 2: yourself about what was your role in your family, how

651
00:37:07,039 --> 00:37:10,479
Speaker 2: were you known quote in your family, how are you

652
00:37:10,559 --> 00:37:13,879
Speaker 2: known in school? What was your role or your identity?

653
00:37:13,999 --> 00:37:15,839
Speaker 2: And how much of that are you holding onto? How

654
00:37:15,919 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 2: much of that do you still want to hold on to,

655
00:37:17,959 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 2: and how much of that is still even correct?

656
00:37:20,679 --> 00:37:23,919
Speaker 1: And I think sometimes that does make us more empathetic,

657
00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:29,079
Speaker 1: because when we have experienced something, we feel for other people,

658
00:37:29,159 --> 00:37:32,039
Speaker 1: but we forget to feel enough for ourselves.

659
00:37:32,599 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 2: Empathy can indeed be a double edged sword, and especially

660
00:37:36,319 --> 00:37:38,839
Speaker 2: for people who have it very automatically. For some people,

661
00:37:38,879 --> 00:37:41,079
Speaker 2: empathy is a thought exercise. They have to pause and

662
00:37:41,159 --> 00:37:44,159
Speaker 2: put themselves in the other person's shoes and figure it out.

663
00:37:44,679 --> 00:37:47,199
Speaker 2: For others, it comes very automatically. And when it comes

664
00:37:47,359 --> 00:37:49,959
Speaker 2: very automatically that I get what the other person is

665
00:37:49,999 --> 00:37:54,159
Speaker 2: thinking or feeling, then sometimes your own needs and thoughts

666
00:37:54,199 --> 00:37:57,479
Speaker 2: and feelings can come second. And we both see that

667
00:37:57,519 --> 00:38:01,199
Speaker 2: in our offices when we talk to someone who's very

668
00:38:01,279 --> 00:38:03,519
Speaker 2: very empathetic and we're talking about a relationship and we

669
00:38:03,599 --> 00:38:05,679
Speaker 2: ask them what they feel, and they keep going to

670
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,879
Speaker 2: what the other person feels, and we have to keep saying, no,

671
00:38:07,919 --> 00:38:10,159
Speaker 2: I'm asking you what you feel, and keep talking about

672
00:38:10,159 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 2: the other person. It's an example of people who are

673
00:38:13,439 --> 00:38:15,639
Speaker 2: very high in empathy, and Liam was at risk for that.

674
00:38:15,799 --> 00:38:18,959
Speaker 2: So I'm glad that he is aware of it, because

675
00:38:18,959 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 2: you literally have to consciously remind yourself not to not

676
00:38:22,439 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 2: think of the other people because that comes automatically, but

677
00:38:24,999 --> 00:38:28,919
Speaker 2: to push up your own priority in that order of things.

678
00:38:29,519 --> 00:38:31,479
Speaker 6: And I think there's one last piece Liam wanted to

679
00:38:31,479 --> 00:38:32,119
Speaker 6: share with us.

680
00:38:33,319 --> 00:38:38,919
Speaker 12: Most importantly would have gained about myself is that there's

681
00:38:38,959 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 12: a lot more love and support in my family than

682
00:38:41,879 --> 00:38:45,599
Speaker 12: I had initially thought. Sad to say, but I would

683
00:38:45,639 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 12: have never described my family as very close knit or

684
00:38:48,879 --> 00:38:54,199
Speaker 12: very emotional before that. But listening to that conversation again,

685
00:38:54,559 --> 00:38:58,399
Speaker 12: it is so apparent how much love and support I

686
00:38:58,519 --> 00:39:01,599
Speaker 12: get from them. The love between my sister and I

687
00:39:01,679 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 12: specifically is just so apparent and limitless. Getting to listen

688
00:39:08,279 --> 00:39:11,599
Speaker 12: to it almost from an outsider perspective, made me realize

689
00:39:11,639 --> 00:39:14,439
Speaker 12: that it was in front of my face the whole time.

690
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 12: This is probably an issue that is faced every day

691
00:39:18,799 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 12: by somebody somewhere. It's really hard to be true to yourself.

692
00:39:26,399 --> 00:39:29,359
Speaker 11: I hope that other people dealing with this.

693
00:39:31,119 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 12: Do get the support and the love that I receive

694
00:39:33,799 --> 00:39:36,879
Speaker 12: from my family, and even if they don't, I hope

695
00:39:36,879 --> 00:39:40,479
Speaker 12: they have the strength in them to be true to themselves.

696
00:39:40,799 --> 00:39:44,559
Speaker 12: There's any trance people listening to this. I just wanted

697
00:39:44,559 --> 00:39:46,919
Speaker 12: to say that you are valid and you are loved,

698
00:39:47,799 --> 00:39:50,839
Speaker 12: and that does not depend on whether your family or

699
00:39:50,879 --> 00:39:54,599
Speaker 12: friends accept you or not, and most importantly, you are

700
00:39:54,639 --> 00:40:01,599
Speaker 12: not alone. Thank you so much, Guy and Laurie. It

701
00:40:01,679 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 12: has been such an honor and getting such helpful feedback.

702
00:40:07,959 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 12: You have absolutely change my life for the better. I

703
00:40:13,319 --> 00:40:15,439
Speaker 12: can't even put into words what this has meant to me,

704
00:40:16,079 --> 00:40:17,119
Speaker 12: so thank you so much.

705
00:40:17,759 --> 00:40:19,119
Speaker 11: I really appreciate you guys.

706
00:40:20,279 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 1: There really is a lot of love in that family,

707
00:40:22,479 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's hard to see it. I remember with

708
00:40:25,439 --> 00:40:29,119
Speaker 1: Liam's mom. At first, she was very supportive when he

709
00:40:29,159 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 1: told her that he was going to be transitioning, and

710
00:40:32,399 --> 00:40:35,919
Speaker 1: then the next time they spoke she had kind of

711
00:40:37,199 --> 00:40:39,919
Speaker 1: changed a little bit in terms of how accepting she

712
00:40:40,039 --> 00:40:42,519
Speaker 1: was of that and how on board she was. And

713
00:40:43,319 --> 00:40:45,399
Speaker 1: I think that sometimes that can be confused with a

714
00:40:45,519 --> 00:40:47,399
Speaker 1: lack of love. But we have to remember that when

715
00:40:47,399 --> 00:40:50,439
Speaker 1: somebody in a family system changes, no matter what kind

716
00:40:50,479 --> 00:40:53,879
Speaker 1: of change it is, it takes a beat for other

717
00:40:53,919 --> 00:40:57,239
Speaker 1: people in the family to process that change, and when

718
00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:00,799
Speaker 1: the love is there in that way, people generally do

719
00:41:00,919 --> 00:41:02,759
Speaker 1: come around. There are so many times that we hear

720
00:41:02,839 --> 00:41:06,199
Speaker 1: about unfortunately where people don't come around, where people don't

721
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: embrace the person for who they really are. But in

722
00:41:08,839 --> 00:41:11,999
Speaker 1: this case, just from everything Liam was saying, it felt

723
00:41:11,999 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 1: like there was so much love in that family, not

724
00:41:15,479 --> 00:41:18,119
Speaker 1: just between the sisters but amongst all of them in

725
00:41:18,159 --> 00:41:22,039
Speaker 1: different ways, that it's so beautiful to hear how it's

726
00:41:22,079 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 1: all coming together now a year later.

727
00:41:24,919 --> 00:41:27,119
Speaker 2: It is really lovely to hear, you know. The thing

728
00:41:27,159 --> 00:41:30,879
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, Laurie, is that when somebody has a change

729
00:41:30,919 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 2: in identity, then they've been thinking about it for a

730
00:41:34,479 --> 00:41:36,919
Speaker 2: long time before they really come out and talk to

731
00:41:36,959 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 2: their family about it. And by the time they do,

732
00:41:39,839 --> 00:41:43,199
Speaker 2: they're often so impatient to get going and to move

733
00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 2: on with this next phase of their life that they

734
00:41:45,799 --> 00:41:48,399
Speaker 2: want their family to come around immediately, and they forget

735
00:41:48,439 --> 00:41:51,999
Speaker 2: sometimes that you've been thinking about this for many years.

736
00:41:52,439 --> 00:41:54,999
Speaker 2: For some members of your family, it's very new and

737
00:41:55,039 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 2: it will take them time. Not that they won't get there,

738
00:41:57,559 --> 00:41:59,479
Speaker 2: but they still have to go through a little bit

739
00:41:59,479 --> 00:42:01,879
Speaker 2: of an adjustment, a little bit of a transition, and

740
00:42:01,959 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 2: I think the benefit of hearing from Liam now is

741
00:42:04,279 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 2: that enough time has passed and it's just lovely to

742
00:42:07,879 --> 00:42:10,559
Speaker 2: hear that. That's some that's so much coming to the

743
00:42:10,599 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 2: surface now.

744
00:42:11,959 --> 00:42:16,759
Speaker 1: And what's so important here is that no matter what

745
00:42:16,799 --> 00:42:18,679
Speaker 1: I think, what Liam is saying to people is you

746
00:42:18,759 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 1: need to be true to yourself. People will have reactions,

747
00:42:22,439 --> 00:42:24,439
Speaker 1: people will do what they're going to do, but at

748
00:42:24,479 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 1: the end of the day, how do you free yourself?

749
00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 1: You need to be true to yourself. You're listening to

750
00:42:32,799 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: Dear Therapists for my Heart Radio. We'll be back after

751
00:42:35,759 --> 00:42:51,639
Speaker 1: a short break. So guy, the last person we're going

752
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:56,159
Speaker 1: to hear from today also is struggling to free herself

753
00:42:56,319 --> 00:42:58,439
Speaker 1: and also has an issue with her sister.

754
00:42:58,839 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was Hailey. Hailey lived by her parents and

755
00:43:03,039 --> 00:43:05,199
Speaker 2: was the only one taking care of them. She had

756
00:43:05,199 --> 00:43:08,119
Speaker 2: two sisters who lived further away, so it all kind

757
00:43:08,119 --> 00:43:11,239
Speaker 2: of fell on her and had for years. And Hailey

758
00:43:11,359 --> 00:43:13,639
Speaker 2: was really resentful because her parents kind of took it

759
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:16,439
Speaker 2: for granted. She didn't feel seen or heard, and then

760
00:43:16,559 --> 00:43:18,559
Speaker 2: one of the sisters would fly in once a year

761
00:43:18,599 --> 00:43:20,719
Speaker 2: and the parents treated it like a visit. For Mary

762
00:43:20,759 --> 00:43:23,919
Speaker 2: Poppins and Hailey had a lot of feelings about it.

763
00:43:24,439 --> 00:43:25,959
Speaker 2: Let's get a reminder of that session.

764
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:30,359
Speaker 1: I think that there's still a yearning for you to

765
00:43:30,479 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 1: have them appreciate who you are as a person. And

766
00:43:34,439 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 1: so when your sister comes in and you said, like

767
00:43:36,359 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: Mary Poppins, and what they see is not just everything

768
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 1: she's doing that week, but I think that you have

769
00:43:45,439 --> 00:43:47,999
Speaker 1: a sense they see something else in her that they

770
00:43:48,079 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 1: haven't really looked hard enough to see in you.

771
00:43:50,959 --> 00:43:54,079
Speaker 7: Sometimes I think I should ask them more questions, because

772
00:43:54,119 --> 00:43:58,679
Speaker 7: that's what Jill does when she's there. She writes questions

773
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:02,519
Speaker 7: for the night and has people discuss memories and labels

774
00:44:02,519 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 7: the antiques and.

775
00:44:03,759 --> 00:44:05,199
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, she is Mary Poppins.

776
00:44:05,639 --> 00:44:07,439
Speaker 9: Yeah. I can't compete with that.

777
00:44:07,599 --> 00:44:10,719
Speaker 7: I don't know how to do that.

778
00:44:14,159 --> 00:44:15,879
Speaker 1: And I remember one of the things we talked about

779
00:44:15,919 --> 00:44:18,239
Speaker 1: with Hailey was the fact that sometimes when people don't

780
00:44:18,279 --> 00:44:21,999
Speaker 1: appreciate you, you don't realize that you have that right

781
00:44:22,039 --> 00:44:24,999
Speaker 1: in front of you, and sometimes you take that for granted.

782
00:44:25,039 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: And so one of the things we asked about was

783
00:44:26,759 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 1: where she was getting that in her life, and she

784
00:44:29,839 --> 00:44:32,639
Speaker 1: started talking about her husband that he was very supportive

785
00:44:32,679 --> 00:44:35,319
Speaker 1: of her and she also wanted to feel closer with him,

786
00:44:35,439 --> 00:44:39,399
Speaker 1: and I remember we gave her that exercise to really

787
00:44:39,399 --> 00:44:43,359
Speaker 1: share with each other what they appreciated about one another.

788
00:44:43,439 --> 00:44:45,799
Speaker 1: And after the first week, she was so excited about that.

789
00:44:45,839 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 1: She said it had gone very well. It made her

790
00:44:48,399 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: feel so good, and it made him feel so good.

791
00:44:51,519 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 1: And let's hear now where Haley is with everyone in

792
00:44:56,359 --> 00:44:56,879
Speaker 1: her family.

793
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:00,839
Speaker 9: Hi, Laurie and Guy, it's Haley.

794
00:45:01,479 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 13: Your invitation to reconnect could not have come at a

795
00:45:05,759 --> 00:45:06,479
Speaker 13: better time.

796
00:45:07,759 --> 00:45:10,079
Speaker 9: Mostly it's with my husband.

797
00:45:10,199 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 13: I have not followed through on your advice of appreciating

798
00:45:13,399 --> 00:45:16,879
Speaker 13: him having him tell me what he appreciates about me.

799
00:45:17,399 --> 00:45:20,679
Speaker 13: And I realized the assignment was only for a week,

800
00:45:20,799 --> 00:45:22,439
Speaker 13: and hey, that was a great week.

801
00:45:22,999 --> 00:45:24,199
Speaker 9: I think I have said to.

802
00:45:24,199 --> 00:45:26,199
Speaker 13: Him several times, you know, we need to work on this.

803
00:45:26,279 --> 00:45:29,199
Speaker 13: I want to feel closer to you. Let's at least

804
00:45:29,199 --> 00:45:32,479
Speaker 13: start doing this thing that Guy and Laurie suggested I

805
00:45:32,559 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 13: do and tell each other what we appreciate about each other,

806
00:45:36,279 --> 00:45:40,399
Speaker 13: because I really do need to hear that from him,

807
00:45:40,439 --> 00:45:43,319
Speaker 13: and I would really like to feel comfortable with feeling

808
00:45:43,359 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 13: intimate with my husband, which is it's work. I'll admit

809
00:45:47,479 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 13: that's work. Because I was not trained in this way,

810
00:45:52,999 --> 00:45:53,559
Speaker 13: you know, Laurie.

811
00:45:53,559 --> 00:45:55,919
Speaker 2: It's so common and we see this all the time

812
00:45:55,919 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 2: with couples we work with that couples will try something

813
00:45:58,279 --> 00:46:01,159
Speaker 2: that works for them and they'll say, wow, that really worked,

814
00:46:01,159 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 2: But then they'll fall out of the hat really quickly

815
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 2: and go back to something that didn't work and created

816
00:46:06,319 --> 00:46:09,799
Speaker 2: more distance. And people might think, but if Haley felt

817
00:46:09,799 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: that that was really useful, why didn't you just keep

818
00:46:12,799 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 2: doing it? And there are many reasons people fall back

819
00:46:15,959 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 2: into the world habits. First, as Haley mentioned, you're doing

820
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 2: something that doesn't come naturally, so it requires some kind

821
00:46:21,799 --> 00:46:24,639
Speaker 2: of emotional effort and the cooperation of the other person

822
00:46:24,679 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 2: in this case, so it's not that easy. And the

823
00:46:27,359 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 2: other part is that once we get our partner to

824
00:46:30,639 --> 00:46:33,159
Speaker 2: do something that is better for us, we often have

825
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,879
Speaker 2: this fantasy that, well, they see it's better for us,

826
00:46:35,959 --> 00:46:38,079
Speaker 2: they should keep doing it naturally because they know it

827
00:46:38,119 --> 00:46:40,879
Speaker 2: makes me happy. But it's just as hard for Hade's

828
00:46:40,959 --> 00:46:43,919
Speaker 2: husband to keep it up as it is for Hayley,

829
00:46:44,279 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 2: because again, it's not something that comes naturally, either to

830
00:46:47,399 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 2: them individually or to them in their couple dynamic.

831
00:46:49,799 --> 00:46:52,959
Speaker 1: Right now, right I don't see this as discouraging it

832
00:46:53,039 --> 00:46:55,199
Speaker 1: all for those reasons, because I think it's hard to

833
00:46:55,239 --> 00:46:57,079
Speaker 1: go out of our comfort zones, and here you have

834
00:46:57,199 --> 00:46:59,999
Speaker 1: two people who are trying to do that. And I

835
00:47:00,079 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 1: remember when she reported back after the first week, they

836
00:47:03,279 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: both really enjoyed the appreciation exercise. They both seem to

837
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,439
Speaker 1: have gotten a lot out of it. Her husband sounded

838
00:47:10,599 --> 00:47:12,679
Speaker 1: so willing, you know, it wasn't like she had to

839
00:47:12,679 --> 00:47:14,879
Speaker 1: force him to do it or try to convince him

840
00:47:14,879 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: to do it. And so I'm glad that she is

841
00:47:17,799 --> 00:47:20,919
Speaker 1: continuing to voice this to him because he does seem willing,

842
00:47:21,359 --> 00:47:24,439
Speaker 1: and she realizes that she needs to take an active

843
00:47:24,599 --> 00:47:26,039
Speaker 1: role in this request.

844
00:47:26,599 --> 00:47:28,559
Speaker 2: And one way to take an active role is to

845
00:47:28,599 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 2: schedule the exercise and do it at specific times, like

846
00:47:31,319 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 2: I don't know, every Friday and Monday, say to end

847
00:47:33,839 --> 00:47:36,519
Speaker 2: and start the week, because then it becomes more automatic

848
00:47:36,559 --> 00:47:38,199
Speaker 2: and something they can both look forward to.

849
00:47:38,799 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 1: One of the nice things about this appreciation exercise is

850
00:47:41,319 --> 00:47:43,439
Speaker 1: that we're not saying go have a heavy talk about

851
00:47:43,439 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 1: everything that's not working in your relationship, which you know

852
00:47:45,879 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: some couples are needing to deal with. They actually have

853
00:47:48,319 --> 00:47:50,479
Speaker 1: a really nice relationship. What they want is they want

854
00:47:50,479 --> 00:47:53,599
Speaker 1: more closeness, and I think that that appreciation piece and

855
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 1: not feeling alone is really important to Haley. So this

856
00:47:56,799 --> 00:47:59,119
Speaker 1: isn't a talk that people dread. This is a we're

857
00:47:59,159 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 1: going to schedule twice a week at the beginning and

858
00:48:01,399 --> 00:48:03,359
Speaker 1: end of the week where we have a time where

859
00:48:03,399 --> 00:48:06,439
Speaker 1: someone's going to tell me some really nice things about me.

860
00:48:06,919 --> 00:48:08,519
Speaker 6: That's something that people look forward to.

861
00:48:09,439 --> 00:48:12,039
Speaker 2: Absolutely, let's hear some more from Haylee.

862
00:48:13,799 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 9: So on to my parents.

863
00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:17,959
Speaker 13: One of the things I found most valuable in re

864
00:48:18,079 --> 00:48:22,919
Speaker 13: listening to the podcast was that metaphor that I made

865
00:48:22,999 --> 00:48:26,479
Speaker 13: up about this currency that I have and maybe my

866
00:48:26,559 --> 00:48:30,599
Speaker 13: dad doesn't appreciate this currency, like I'm a Euro and

867
00:48:30,639 --> 00:48:34,159
Speaker 13: he's a rupee and he doesn't value my currency, And

868
00:48:34,199 --> 00:48:40,279
Speaker 13: that was just such a great reminder about my own worth.

869
00:48:40,879 --> 00:48:44,599
Speaker 9: So in that way it was very helpful.

870
00:48:44,679 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 13: And just hearing your kind voices again and all of

871
00:48:47,319 --> 00:48:50,999
Speaker 13: your praise about that I'm a great listener and then

872
00:48:51,039 --> 00:48:55,519
Speaker 13: I write good metaphors, that was just very nice to hear.

873
00:48:56,519 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 13: On a final note, the whole thing makes me realize

874
00:48:59,519 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 13: how often I kind of walk around with my hand

875
00:49:03,359 --> 00:49:05,999
Speaker 13: out like, oh please like me, oh please like me, Oh,

876
00:49:06,039 --> 00:49:10,919
Speaker 13: please like me? Overdoing things for people, over you know,

877
00:49:11,159 --> 00:49:13,999
Speaker 13: like I said with my parents, entertaining, like I'm a

878
00:49:14,319 --> 00:49:18,359
Speaker 13: fool with a juggling ball and plates everywhere I go,

879
00:49:18,479 --> 00:49:19,919
Speaker 13: trying to get people to like me.

880
00:49:21,399 --> 00:49:23,239
Speaker 9: And I really shouldn't have to try that hard.

881
00:49:23,279 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 13: I should really value my own currency and see my

882
00:49:28,479 --> 00:49:31,399
Speaker 13: own worth, which I think speaks to the whole issue

883
00:49:31,439 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 13: like how do you survive growing up in a house

884
00:49:37,399 --> 00:49:40,199
Speaker 13: where people didn't value your currency and then become an

885
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,999
Speaker 13: adult and learn how to value your currency, which is

886
00:49:45,039 --> 00:49:48,079
Speaker 13: why it hurts so bad when you know, Mary Poppins

887
00:49:48,159 --> 00:49:51,399
Speaker 13: comes in and everybody loves Mary Poppins.

888
00:49:52,439 --> 00:49:54,439
Speaker 1: So I think what we see with Haley here is

889
00:49:54,519 --> 00:49:56,959
Speaker 1: how strong the pull of our own history can be,

890
00:49:57,159 --> 00:49:59,839
Speaker 1: where our old habits and our old dynamics come back in,

891
00:50:00,559 --> 00:50:02,599
Speaker 1: and how often what we do is we take a

892
00:50:02,599 --> 00:50:05,599
Speaker 1: few steps forward and then we slip back. And I

893
00:50:05,599 --> 00:50:07,879
Speaker 1: think that the lesson here is that when you are

894
00:50:07,919 --> 00:50:10,519
Speaker 1: making a change, you should know that you will slip

895
00:50:10,559 --> 00:50:14,399
Speaker 1: back sometimes, that it's not a linear progression, and that

896
00:50:14,479 --> 00:50:16,519
Speaker 1: you have to have a lot of compassion for yourself

897
00:50:16,559 --> 00:50:18,919
Speaker 1: and say, okay, so I slip back, and now I'm

898
00:50:18,959 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 1: going to get back on track. And I think that

899
00:50:21,839 --> 00:50:23,959
Speaker 1: it's not a sign that a lot of people take

900
00:50:24,119 --> 00:50:26,079
Speaker 1: of well, I slip back, so I can't do this.

901
00:50:26,199 --> 00:50:29,039
Speaker 1: You absolutely can do this, and this is just part

902
00:50:29,079 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 1: of the process.

903
00:50:30,639 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 2: And you know what I say to people all the time,

904
00:50:32,399 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 2: and they don't believe me until they's right, and then

905
00:50:34,279 --> 00:50:37,279
Speaker 2: they go, oh yeah, right. Is that the same ease

906
00:50:37,319 --> 00:50:40,879
Speaker 2: and the same quickness with which you can slip off track,

907
00:50:40,959 --> 00:50:42,919
Speaker 2: with which you can go back to the old habits.

908
00:50:43,479 --> 00:50:46,399
Speaker 2: It's true that you can then slip back on the

909
00:50:46,479 --> 00:50:50,039
Speaker 2: right path that quickly as well, because we know for

910
00:50:50,159 --> 00:50:53,639
Speaker 2: Haley that one week of doing the appreciation exercise with

911
00:50:53,679 --> 00:50:56,999
Speaker 2: her husband and changing the dynamics with her parents made

912
00:50:56,999 --> 00:50:59,479
Speaker 2: a real difference. It took her a week to make

913
00:50:59,519 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 2: that change. It will take less than a week to

914
00:51:01,879 --> 00:51:05,079
Speaker 2: change back into that way of thinking and doing. And

915
00:51:05,159 --> 00:51:07,599
Speaker 2: so the message to all our listeners is if you

916
00:51:07,799 --> 00:51:10,359
Speaker 2: started a new habit and you dinas with your partner

917
00:51:10,759 --> 00:51:12,879
Speaker 2: or with your family, and you slip out of it,

918
00:51:12,879 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 2: it's just as easy to slip back in. So let's

919
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:17,919
Speaker 2: see the end of Haley's update.

920
00:51:19,359 --> 00:51:22,039
Speaker 13: I am probably going to listen to this podcast now

921
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:27,679
Speaker 13: every every other month, just the advice part to make

922
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:29,799
Speaker 13: sure that I stay on track, to make sure that

923
00:51:29,959 --> 00:51:34,479
Speaker 13: I remember this feeling of self worth I guess is

924
00:51:34,479 --> 00:51:39,439
Speaker 13: what that currency thing gets down to, and to staying there,

925
00:51:39,479 --> 00:51:42,599
Speaker 13: and also to working on the relationship with my husband

926
00:51:42,959 --> 00:51:46,599
Speaker 13: and feeling more comfortable being intimate.

927
00:51:47,119 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 9: And I want to thank.

928
00:51:48,079 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 13: You both again for your time and your insight and

929
00:51:53,439 --> 00:51:55,599
Speaker 13: choosing my letter out of all the ones I'm sure

930
00:51:55,639 --> 00:51:59,559
Speaker 13: you get, because if I let it, it really could.

931
00:51:59,519 --> 00:52:00,399
Speaker 9: Change my life.

932
00:52:01,479 --> 00:52:03,999
Speaker 1: So this is exactly what we were saying that as therapists,

933
00:52:04,039 --> 00:52:09,639
Speaker 1: we assume that repetition will be required, and that when

934
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:11,599
Speaker 1: you don't have a therapist to keep you on track

935
00:52:11,639 --> 00:52:14,399
Speaker 1: and remind you that you're going off track, you have

936
00:52:14,479 --> 00:52:17,959
Speaker 1: to find other reminders. And for Haley, listening to the

937
00:52:17,999 --> 00:52:20,359
Speaker 1: podcast once a month is a great way for her

938
00:52:20,399 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 1: to do that.

939
00:52:21,479 --> 00:52:24,679
Speaker 2: And for our listeners who are dealing with creating change

940
00:52:24,719 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 2: in their own lives, schedule a monthly check in your

941
00:52:28,279 --> 00:52:30,799
Speaker 2: calendar in which you ask yourself, have I been keeping

942
00:52:30,879 --> 00:52:33,559
Speaker 2: up with my new habit or my new intention or

943
00:52:33,599 --> 00:52:36,239
Speaker 2: my new form of communicating the new dynamic whatever it

944
00:52:36,279 --> 00:52:38,599
Speaker 2: is you're trying to change, Have you been keeping up

945
00:52:38,599 --> 00:52:40,159
Speaker 2: with it. Have you been keeping up with all the

946
00:52:40,359 --> 00:52:44,079
Speaker 2: necessary support systems you have in place to facilitate that

947
00:52:44,559 --> 00:52:48,479
Speaker 2: check in with yourself, because you've had decades of establishing

948
00:52:48,599 --> 00:52:52,599
Speaker 2: sometimes poor habits, and to free yourselves from those, you

949
00:52:52,679 --> 00:52:56,399
Speaker 2: really need to check in regularly, at least at the beginning,

950
00:52:56,759 --> 00:52:59,159
Speaker 2: to make sure you're developing the new habits that are

951
00:52:59,159 --> 00:53:00,399
Speaker 2: best for your emotional health.

952
00:53:01,439 --> 00:53:04,159
Speaker 1: We've heard a lot about freedom in today's updates, and

953
00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:06,079
Speaker 1: it's so great to hear how people are doing a

954
00:53:06,159 --> 00:53:09,159
Speaker 1: year later. We become very attached to the people that

955
00:53:09,199 --> 00:53:11,759
Speaker 1: we talk to in their sessions, and we think about

956
00:53:11,759 --> 00:53:12,959
Speaker 1: them and we wonder how they're doing.

957
00:53:13,039 --> 00:53:15,199
Speaker 6: And I know that our listeners do too, and.

958
00:53:15,119 --> 00:53:20,399
Speaker 1: I hope that our listeners are gaining something from hearing

959
00:53:20,439 --> 00:53:22,479
Speaker 1: these updates, just like they do when they hear our

960
00:53:22,519 --> 00:53:23,599
Speaker 1: initial sessions.

961
00:53:24,119 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 2: And that's why I'm so grateful to Haley, also, because

962
00:53:27,359 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 2: she reminded us all of something very important. That change

963
00:53:31,439 --> 00:53:35,159
Speaker 2: requires maintenance, and that's something we should all keep in mind.

964
00:53:39,839 --> 00:53:42,039
Speaker 1: I love hearing these updates a year later, So we

965
00:53:42,079 --> 00:53:44,639
Speaker 1: will be bringing more updates later in the season.

966
00:53:44,959 --> 00:53:46,559
Speaker 6: But next week we will be.

967
00:53:46,599 --> 00:53:49,439
Speaker 1: Back to our regular sessions and we'll be hearing from

968
00:53:49,439 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 1: a woman who comes to us to talk about her

969
00:53:52,799 --> 00:53:55,639
Speaker 1: ex husband, who she believes is a narcissist.

970
00:53:55,919 --> 00:53:58,199
Speaker 14: And he said, so, I have four major stressors in

971
00:53:58,199 --> 00:54:01,079
Speaker 14: my life. My marriage, my health, my work, and that

972
00:54:01,159 --> 00:54:03,599
Speaker 14: I'm a father. He said, one of those things is

973
00:54:03,599 --> 00:54:05,959
Speaker 14: on the chopping block, and that's the marriage.

974
00:54:06,159 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 1: Hey, fellow travelers, if you're enjoying our podcast each week,

975
00:54:09,319 --> 00:54:11,999
Speaker 1: we don't forget to subscribe for free so that you

976
00:54:11,999 --> 00:54:15,639
Speaker 1: don't miss any episodes, and please help support Dear Therapists

977
00:54:15,639 --> 00:54:17,919
Speaker 1: by telling your friends about it and leaving a review

978
00:54:17,959 --> 00:54:19,079
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts.

979
00:54:19,399 --> 00:54:21,519
Speaker 6: Your reviews really help people to find the show.

980
00:54:22,119 --> 00:54:24,319
Speaker 2: If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,

981
00:54:24,399 --> 00:54:29,559
Speaker 2: Bigo Smooth, email us at Lorian Guy at iHeartMedia dot com.

982
00:54:29,799 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Noel Brown. We're produced and edited

983
00:54:33,439 --> 00:54:37,639
Speaker 1: by Mike Johns, Josh Fisher, and Chris Childs. Our interns

984
00:54:37,639 --> 00:54:41,199
Speaker 1: are Dorit Corwin and Silver Lifton. Special thanks to Alison

985
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: Wright and to our podcast fairy Godmother Katie Couric.

986
00:54:45,399 --> 00:54:47,679
Speaker 2: We can't wait to see you at next week's session.

987
00:54:47,919 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 1: Dear Therapist is a production of iHeartRadio