WEBVTT - McAfee Part 3: The Jungle

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<v Speaker 1>On November eleven, twenty twelve, a housekeeper in Belize entered

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<v Speaker 1>the beachside residence of a man named Gregory Fall. According

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<v Speaker 1>to court documents, she found him lying face up in

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<v Speaker 1>the living room in the pool of blood. The television

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<v Speaker 1>was still on and there were no signs of struggle.

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<v Speaker 1>Once police arrived on the scene, it became clear the

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<v Speaker 1>man was first tasted and then shot in the back

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<v Speaker 1>of the head with a single bullet. The police found

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<v Speaker 1>a nine millimeter shell next to the body. They told

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<v Speaker 1>a local paper that there was no evidence that anything

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<v Speaker 1>was missing, leading them to dismiss robbery as a motive

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<v Speaker 1>for the murder. Following the murder for American national Gregory Fall,

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<v Speaker 1>police in San Pedro have detained one man for his murder.

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<v Speaker 1>They're also seeking American national John McAfee for questioning. McAfee

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<v Speaker 1>is well known because he's the founder of the anti

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<v Speaker 1>virus that bears his name. McAfee, who has a house

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<v Speaker 1>in the area, has not been seen since this incident.

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<v Speaker 1>Greg Fall and John McAfee lift two houses down from

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<v Speaker 1>one another. Before greg was killed, they'd been arguing over

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<v Speaker 1>McAfee's guard dogs. Now the police wanted to talk to McAfee,

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<v Speaker 1>but he was nowhere to be found. He went on

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<v Speaker 1>the lamb. Did you get away with murda? No? I

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<v Speaker 1>did not do murder. This is you know. I think

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<v Speaker 1>this is perfectly clear. I had nothing whatsoever to do

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<v Speaker 1>with the murder of Gregory Paul. But McAfee didn't hang

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<v Speaker 1>around to answer any questions. Do you know who this is?

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<v Speaker 1>He fled, claiming he'd been framed, and though he was

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<v Speaker 1>avoiding the police, he was in constant contact with the media.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you afraid? Wouldn't you be? So? How is this

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<v Speaker 1>going to end? How do you see this coming to

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<v Speaker 1>an end? I don't have a crystal ball. I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to continue to fight until something changes up. You won't

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<v Speaker 1>turn yourself in. I will not. So it will either

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<v Speaker 1>be that some how you get away or the authorities

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<v Speaker 1>come and get you one of those two on the

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<v Speaker 1>run under suspicion with the world watching. You're listening to Foundering,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm your host, Jamie Tarabay. Belize is where everything changes

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<v Speaker 1>from McAfee. It's sometimes referred to as his Heart of

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<v Speaker 1>Darkness era. He's no longer the spiritually enlightened Yogi or

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<v Speaker 1>the adrenaline seeking aircraft enthusiast, his flaunting guns, bodyguards, teenage girlfriends,

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<v Speaker 1>and drugs. He's accused of orchestrating a murder. This image

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<v Speaker 1>of a genius madman is one that will follow him

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<v Speaker 1>for the remaining years of his life. A slew of

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<v Speaker 1>negative news coverage comes out that documents disturbing allegations against him,

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<v Speaker 1>and rather than running away from the bad press, McAfee

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<v Speaker 1>embraces the media, introduces reporters to his homes, his science laboratory,

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<v Speaker 1>and his entourage, and after his neighbor turns up dead, perversely,

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<v Speaker 1>McAfee's famed skyrockets to an all time high, making him

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<v Speaker 1>even more famous than during his heyday as CEO of

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<v Speaker 1>McAfee and Associates. McAfee's life in Belize was marked by

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<v Speaker 1>high drama and chaos, much of his own making. The

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<v Speaker 1>reports being broadcast to viewers at home at the time

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<v Speaker 1>were full of contradictions, accusations, and misinformation, and faithfully, two

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<v Speaker 1>journalists from Bias News even go on the run with

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<v Speaker 1>McAfee as he evades Belizean authorities. This is when events

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<v Speaker 1>spiral out of his control and his antics seemed to

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<v Speaker 1>lead to his undoing. I'll tell you more after a break.

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<v Speaker 1>John McAfee arrived in Belize in two thousand and eight.

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<v Speaker 1>He wanted it to be a new beginning. He was

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<v Speaker 1>running away from an ongoing wrongful death lawsuit from his

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<v Speaker 1>error trekking business. In Belize, McAfee lived like a rich

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<v Speaker 1>man far outside the bound of US jurisdiction. Here's Jeff Weiss,

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<v Speaker 1>a journalist who has covered McAfee since two thousand and

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<v Speaker 1>seven and is also a contributor to Bloomberg Business Week.

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<v Speaker 1>He says him now, Belize says all things having so

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<v Speaker 1>much fun. He's got his ultra lights down there. He's

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<v Speaker 1>like exploring these jungle rivers and there's like all these

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<v Speaker 1>abandoned man in ruins. It's like a tourist brochure. Belize

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<v Speaker 1>is a small country hugging the Caribbean coast of Central America,

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<v Speaker 1>wedged between Mexico to its north and Guatemala to its

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<v Speaker 1>south and west. Its population is tiny, just four hundred

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<v Speaker 1>thousand people. Many American retirees flocked to the town of

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<v Speaker 1>Saint Pedro. That's the version of Belize that gets promoted

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<v Speaker 1>on travel sites. White sandy beaches, sparkling turquoise water, scuba

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<v Speaker 1>diving in coral reefs. But McAfee being McAfee, decided to

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<v Speaker 1>make his base of operations for his first years in

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<v Speaker 1>Belize in a town called orange Walk, which was something

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<v Speaker 1>else altogether. Here's Jules Vasquez, the news director of Channel

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<v Speaker 1>seven News, a TV station in Belize. I would see

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<v Speaker 1>the difference is it's a rural, agrarian community as opposed

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<v Speaker 1>to tourist tone. There are no white men living in

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<v Speaker 1>that area of orange Walk where you was. Orange Walk

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<v Speaker 1>is on the mainland. It's a poorer community. The only

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<v Speaker 1>other so called white men in orange Walk were a

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<v Speaker 1>group of Mennonites. So it was here that McAfee decided

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<v Speaker 1>to build the laboratory. He said he was developing a

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<v Speaker 1>new sort of antibiotic derived from rare plants that grow

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<v Speaker 1>wild in the Belizian rainforest. This research would build upon

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<v Speaker 1>a real emerging area of medicine called quorum sensing, which

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<v Speaker 1>studies how bacteria communicate. The basis for McAfee's research sounds

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<v Speaker 1>pretty technical. Here's Jeff Weiss again. So the bio drug

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<v Speaker 1>thing he was looking for, he had this whole backstory

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<v Speaker 1>that was largely based in reality. There's this thing called

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<v Speaker 1>quorum sensing, where organisms that team up, like slime molds

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<v Speaker 1>and things, organisms that are only sometimes dangerous, like if

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<v Speaker 1>they infect your wound, they can send a signal, and

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<v Speaker 1>if you can interrupt that signal, you can maybe prevent

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<v Speaker 1>them from becoming dangerous. In an article Jeff wrote for

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<v Speaker 1>Fast Company, he posed the question could McAfee do for

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<v Speaker 1>human health what he'd done for computers. It was a

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<v Speaker 1>tantalizing prospect. And he also employed a biologist and she

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<v Speaker 1>had actually done some work. She actually was we talked

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<v Speaker 1>about Charles earlier. She was actually a researcher at Harvard,

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<v Speaker 1>as I understand it, so she was working in some

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<v Speaker 1>Harvard lab there really was working on this kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 1>The biologist is a woman named Alison at Anisio. She

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<v Speaker 1>was relatively young when she was working for McAfee, just

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<v Speaker 1>thirty one years old. Alison had quit her job at

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<v Speaker 1>Harvard and abandoned the grant for a three year research

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<v Speaker 1>program to go to work for McAfee. They co founded

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<v Speaker 1>a company to cultivate natural antibiotics and topical medicine to

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<v Speaker 1>treat wounds. But once Jeff is on site, he has

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<v Speaker 1>trouble understanding McAfee's explanation of how he would actually develop

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<v Speaker 1>the new drugs. They're supposed to be based on rare

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<v Speaker 1>plants only available in the jungle in Belize. So McAfee

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<v Speaker 1>walks Jeff to an area on his property where he

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<v Speaker 1>says these plants were going to spring up. So he

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<v Speaker 1>was claiming that, like he was, he had a plot

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<v Speaker 1>of land where this stuff was growing and he was

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<v Speaker 1>going to clear it so that it was going to

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<v Speaker 1>grow better. But he wasn't going to plant it. It

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<v Speaker 1>was just going to grow. And I and I made

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<v Speaker 1>him walk me through this several times because it didn't

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<v Speaker 1>make any sense to me. I've never heard of like

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<v Speaker 1>growing a crop but not planting the crop, just like

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<v Speaker 1>hoping it'll grow. I'm like, how do you know so

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<v Speaker 1>much about this plant that it's just going to grow?

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<v Speaker 1>He just he said at one point he said to me, like,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a very smart man, and so you have to

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<v Speaker 1>take my word for it. A seed of doubt is

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<v Speaker 1>planted in Jeff's mind. One he never really shakes. It's

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<v Speaker 1>all a bit handwavy, frankly, But this was the kind

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<v Speaker 1>of spiel that he would fold for people who were

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<v Speaker 1>This was this was the claim that he was making

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<v Speaker 1>the natural antibiotics never come to fruition. Jeff says that

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<v Speaker 1>McAfee puts Allison onto another project he's interested in. John

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<v Speaker 1>McAfee had a very long standing interest in female libido

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<v Speaker 1>enhancing drugs, so he wanted to find a real life

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<v Speaker 1>Spanish fly. He like, experimented with like testosterone, and he

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<v Speaker 1>experimented with various stimulants. At one point he had Alison Adanitzio,

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<v Speaker 1>his biological researcher, working on a libido drug that he

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<v Speaker 1>wanted her to take, and I guess she did um.

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<v Speaker 1>But so it got it got it. You know, you

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<v Speaker 1>sort of peel one layer away and it gets pretty.

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<v Speaker 1>It gets skibe frankly, and the partnership between McAfee and

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<v Speaker 1>Alison Adernethia doesn't last very long. She leaves John McAfee's

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<v Speaker 1>lab in Orange Walk and returns to the US. She

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<v Speaker 1>later alleges that McAfee drugged and assaulted her when she

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<v Speaker 1>said she wanted out of the business. In an interview

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<v Speaker 1>with ABC News, McAfee called Allison a madwoman and rejected

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<v Speaker 1>her allegations. We haven't been able to reach Allison and

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<v Speaker 1>haven't been able to verify what she said McAfee did

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<v Speaker 1>to her, whatever you believe. Her story highlights an aspect

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<v Speaker 1>of McAfee's personality that seemed to intensify with age. This

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<v Speaker 1>obsession with sex and younger women, and the use of

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<v Speaker 1>his money and power to allegedly exploit them. It got

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<v Speaker 1>more and more egregious over the years. In addition to

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<v Speaker 1>his medical research project, McAfee also seemed to be using

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<v Speaker 1>his money to buy influence. The Saint Pedro soun quotes

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<v Speaker 1>him as saying that he donated over two million dollars

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<v Speaker 1>worth of goods to various police departments while he was

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<v Speaker 1>in Belize. He spent on housing police officers, brought them

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<v Speaker 1>m sixteens, tasers, handcuffs, pepper spray, and metal detectors. He

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<v Speaker 1>gave the Coastguard a million dollar boat, and he seemed

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<v Speaker 1>especially focused on crime in the town of Carmelita, near

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<v Speaker 1>his Orange Walk home. A twenty twelve profile in Wired

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<v Speaker 1>magazine says McAfee paid officers to patrol the streets when

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<v Speaker 1>they were supposed to be off duty. He apparently told

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<v Speaker 1>them to sniff out drug dealers. Here's a clip from

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<v Speaker 1>the documentary Gringo, on which Jeff Wise was an executive producer.

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<v Speaker 1>But I moved to the village of Carmelito. I decided

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<v Speaker 1>I would try to clean it up friend to do

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<v Speaker 1>it legally. For on, it makes sense to hire off

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<v Speaker 1>duty officers to collect information and farm that information. Maybe

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<v Speaker 1>they can do or do something, and they did. I

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<v Speaker 1>have an officer living on my compound. It makes me

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<v Speaker 1>feel safe, makes me feel safer to know that all

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<v Speaker 1>the criminals that might want to rob me, no, there's

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<v Speaker 1>a policeman living there, and they think there's something wrong

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<v Speaker 1>with that. Now, Belize does have one of the highest

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<v Speaker 1>murder rates in the world, but when we looked at

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<v Speaker 1>government issued crime maps, we saw that Orange Walk is

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<v Speaker 1>not an especially dangerous area. Jules Vasquez told us that

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<v Speaker 1>the town had a history of drug violence in the

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighties, but it's not seriously violent anymore. The sense

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<v Speaker 1>of danger appeared to be mostly in McAfee's own mind.

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<v Speaker 1>McAfee built a sprawling property there. This is Tamara Sniffin,

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<v Speaker 1>the editor of The Sampedro sum. It was a compound.

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<v Speaker 1>It was like a several freestanding buildings that were enclosed,

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<v Speaker 1>but it was surrounded by jungle that was very tucked

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<v Speaker 1>away and looked lovely, all wood structures and comfortable and cool.

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<v Speaker 1>McAfee's Orange Walk home reminded me of his previous setups

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<v Speaker 1>in Colorado with his yoga retreat and New Mexico with

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<v Speaker 1>his ultralight aircraft operation. It was as if he wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to leave civilization as he knew it behind and built

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<v Speaker 1>something new, something out of reach, where he could assert

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<v Speaker 1>his own authority. There were also several teenaged girls living

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<v Speaker 1>in McAfee's compound. He boasts about them in the documentary

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<v Speaker 1>film Gringo. I live a lifestyle which might be over

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<v Speaker 1>the line of normal behavior. It's a lot of fun.

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<v Speaker 1>I get to hang out with cute girls who are

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<v Speaker 1>scantilly clad. I do have teenage girlfriends, and many at

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<v Speaker 1>a time. Nothing illegal. They're well beyond the aged consent

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<v Speaker 1>and I've seen nothing wrong with it. And if you do,

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<v Speaker 1>then that's okay. He was sixty seven years old at

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<v Speaker 1>this point. The age of consent in Belize is sixteen.

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<v Speaker 1>Journalist Jeff Wise said that he met a number of

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<v Speaker 1>the girls living on macafee's compound, and you'd have five

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<v Speaker 1>at a time. It was in Belize where because he

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<v Speaker 1>could just like, you know, everyone was so poor and

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<v Speaker 1>he has so much money, and like he seems relatively

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<v Speaker 1>more glamorous there. He could have five. He would have

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<v Speaker 1>multiple buildings on his property, and he would house different women,

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<v Speaker 1>and each one of them, as you say, each one,

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<v Speaker 1>we think they were the special one. In addition to

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<v Speaker 1>flaunting his girlfriends, he stood out in still another way.

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<v Speaker 1>He would travel around town with an armed entourage, big

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<v Speaker 1>scary people, you know, a lot of times wearing fatigues,

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<v Speaker 1>big guys. They always had a rifle slung over their shoulder,

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<v Speaker 1>and they were always on the aware, you know, always

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<v Speaker 1>kind of scoping things out, like he was in danger

0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:57.440
<v Speaker 1>or something. It was very bizarre. According to local news reports,

0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:01.640
<v Speaker 1>including the Saint Pedro Son and Belize Channel seven News,

0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.840
<v Speaker 1>several of the men in McAfee's employ weren't registered to

0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.560
<v Speaker 1>carry weapons and weren't licensed to work as security guards.

0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:13.160
<v Speaker 1>All of this behavior, the armed protection, the new properties,

0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:17.920
<v Speaker 1>the money he's splashing around in this underdeveloped area, begins

0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:21.280
<v Speaker 1>to attract the attention of law enforcement. The police thought

0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.800
<v Speaker 1>it was suspicious that he had bought this property kind

0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:26.320
<v Speaker 1>of in the middle of nowhere, not a scenic location,

0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:31.800
<v Speaker 1>easily accessed by road that sits on a river that

0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:35.920
<v Speaker 1>goes to Mexico. So if you want to move something

0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:42.280
<v Speaker 1>in or out without attracting attention of customs, that would

0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.560
<v Speaker 1>be a good place to do it. In April twenty twelve,

0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:51.200
<v Speaker 1>at six in the morning, Belize's Gang Suppression Unit stormed

0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:56.560
<v Speaker 1>McAfee's Orange Walk compound. Jules Vasquez says, the Gang Suppression

0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.600
<v Speaker 1>Unit officers are in a different league to the local

0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:06.800
<v Speaker 1>police forces. They are a paramilitary, specialized police unit that

0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:10.960
<v Speaker 1>should should primarily deal with the suppression of guns. But

0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:15.800
<v Speaker 1>they're commander at the time, Marco Videal, you wished for

0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:20.040
<v Speaker 1>them to have a much broader footprint in law enforcement,

0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.520
<v Speaker 1>so he would have them pursue pretty much anything that

0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.760
<v Speaker 1>it was felt that other units were too corrupt or

0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:33.520
<v Speaker 1>compromised to pursue. Remember McAfee had donated significant money to

0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:37.640
<v Speaker 1>the local police, but the leader of the Gang Suppression Unit,

0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:42.120
<v Speaker 1>Marco Video, felt that his team was outside that kind

0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:48.480
<v Speaker 1>of influence. However, it was his feeling. I believe that

0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:53.080
<v Speaker 1>many times these local police had already been compromised by

0:16:53.200 --> 0:17:00.720
<v Speaker 1>the thick wallets of US investors, and the Gang Suppression

0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.360
<v Speaker 1>Unit was the only one that could act with the

0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:10.520
<v Speaker 1>necessary discretion and the professionalism to conduct the read properly.

0:17:11.080 --> 0:17:15.680
<v Speaker 1>The Gang Suppression Unit, also known as the GSU, told

0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.840
<v Speaker 1>local media they rated the property based on reports of

0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:22.440
<v Speaker 1>illegal activity occurring at the compound and they were there

0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:26.359
<v Speaker 1>to search for drugs and illegal firearms. Here's a clip

0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:30.639
<v Speaker 1>from SBS Stateline, a current affairs show in Australia. If

0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.520
<v Speaker 1>I came out naked with a handgun, I laid mine

0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:37.200
<v Speaker 1>downs and as I saw the souldiers marching information down

0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:41.800
<v Speaker 1>my driveway, I put my pants on went back outside.

0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.000
<v Speaker 1>Before I could even get outside the door, I was grabbed,

0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:46.680
<v Speaker 1>thrown up against the wall, A piece of paper was

0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:48.840
<v Speaker 1>shoved in my face. You know. This is the warrant

0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:53.840
<v Speaker 1>and the day it was pretty much a nightmare. McAfee

0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:56.520
<v Speaker 1>says he was lying in bed naked with a seventeen

0:17:56.600 --> 0:18:00.159
<v Speaker 1>year old girl when the Gang Suppression Unit charged to

0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.760
<v Speaker 1>his property. He had barely gotten dressed when the police

0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:07.880
<v Speaker 1>handcuffed him and four of his security guards. He says

0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:11.000
<v Speaker 1>he was left in the sun for fourteen hours and

0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.399
<v Speaker 1>that one of his guard dogs was shot and killed.

0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:18.760
<v Speaker 1>The officers ransacked nine houses on the compound. They found

0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.480
<v Speaker 1>a significant cache of weapons. The red conducted by the

0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:26.480
<v Speaker 1>Gang Suppression Unit resulting in the discovery of ten fire arms,

0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:30.680
<v Speaker 1>seven twelve gage pump action shotguns, one twelve gage single

0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.840
<v Speaker 1>action shotgun, one tourist nine millimeter pistol. McAfee was released

0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:38.240
<v Speaker 1>early the next morning. He told reporters the raid was

0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:41.560
<v Speaker 1>in retaliation for his refusal to pay a bribe to

0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:46.800
<v Speaker 1>a local politician. ABC News quoted a Belizian reporter who

0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:50.320
<v Speaker 1>said the gang Suppression unit raided McAfee's lab because they

0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:55.119
<v Speaker 1>suspected that he was manufacturing meth. They tested samples they

0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.359
<v Speaker 1>collected from the scene. In the end, they didn't file

0:18:58.480 --> 0:19:03.200
<v Speaker 1>a single drug charge, ends him. Jeff suggests that this

0:19:03.240 --> 0:19:05.399
<v Speaker 1>may have had less to do with the absence of

0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:08.720
<v Speaker 1>drugs and what to do with the nature of the drugs.

0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:15.199
<v Speaker 1>At this time, McAfee was in the early stages of

0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:21.439
<v Speaker 1>a very strong interest in let's call them bath salts.

0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:23.560
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of a catch all term, but it's basically

0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:30.000
<v Speaker 1>a kind of pharmacologically psychoactive drug that is not illegal

0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.879
<v Speaker 1>because it's different. It has its chemical structure, is somewhat

0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:38.680
<v Speaker 1>different from the stuff that's actually scheduled by the us DA,

0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:41.800
<v Speaker 1>so you can have it and technically it's there's nothing

0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:45.680
<v Speaker 1>they can do to you. Although McAfee walked away a freeman,

0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:50.040
<v Speaker 1>the raid changed him. He became obsessed with the idea

0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:52.919
<v Speaker 1>that there were people out to get him. His bouts

0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:57.240
<v Speaker 1>of paranoia intensify in his later years. Many of these

0:19:57.240 --> 0:20:00.399
<v Speaker 1>actions seemed driven by the idea that the govern was

0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:04.560
<v Speaker 1>hunting for him, the cartel was after him, assassins were

0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:08.679
<v Speaker 1>hidden in the dark, and this paranoia was reinforced in

0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:17.679
<v Speaker 1>reality by the violent raid McAfee endured. After that, he

0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:21.000
<v Speaker 1>moved out of Orange Walk and settled into his beach

0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:25.880
<v Speaker 1>house in Saint Pedro, bringing his entourage with him. McAfee

0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:29.480
<v Speaker 1>took up permanent residence in the tourist town, living near

0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:38.200
<v Speaker 1>another American retiree, a Florida man named Gregory Fall We'll

0:20:38.200 --> 0:20:50.760
<v Speaker 1>be right back. After John McAfee's compound on the mainland

0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:54.199
<v Speaker 1>of Belize was raided by the gang Suppression Unit, he

0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.520
<v Speaker 1>moved his life to Saint Pedro on the island of Amber,

0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:01.200
<v Speaker 1>Greece Key. His beach house over look the white sands

0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:05.200
<v Speaker 1>and crystal blue waters of the Caribbean. Saint Pedre was

0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:10.280
<v Speaker 1>a community largely composed of retirees from the US and Canada.

0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:17.080
<v Speaker 1>Here's Jules Vasquez. They have a certain Margharitaville lifestyle, right,

0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:21.040
<v Speaker 1>like they're all straight out of that Jim A. Buffett song.

0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:26.320
<v Speaker 1>And he comes in and he has quotery of dangerous,

0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:31.800
<v Speaker 1>huge quotes dangerous black people around him, right Like he

0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:35.359
<v Speaker 1>has an entourage, right of these people around him. So

0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:39.719
<v Speaker 1>he really doesn't fit in with that community, which is

0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:44.159
<v Speaker 1>really more retirement gringos, right, and then he comes in

0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:51.199
<v Speaker 1>with all this alacrity, all this m combustion. McAfee is

0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:55.560
<v Speaker 1>suspicious with people he doesn't know. He tells Wired Magazine

0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:58.879
<v Speaker 1>that he keeps mainly to his beach house and his women.

0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:03.640
<v Speaker 1>He's having erratically and he's convinced he's a target, says

0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:07.280
<v Speaker 1>Tamara Sniffin. He just thought they were out together because

0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:09.359
<v Speaker 1>he stepped on the wrong toes. Of course, he would

0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:14.320
<v Speaker 1>never be forthcoming on exactly like why he was being

0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:18.640
<v Speaker 1>picked on, just very vaguely that he was the white

0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:24.679
<v Speaker 1>man coming in and stepping on toes or whatever. McAfee's

0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:29.240
<v Speaker 1>presence in Saint Pedro was disrupting everyday life for many locals,

0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:34.159
<v Speaker 1>says Jeff Weiss. He's kind of terrorizing the neighborhood. Everyone's

0:22:34.280 --> 0:22:37.840
<v Speaker 1>freaked out. He's scared of this guy Dodgs. You're biting people,

0:22:38.040 --> 0:22:44.439
<v Speaker 1>the guards, you're staring at people, and it's about six

0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:49.080
<v Speaker 1>months of high tension on this stretch of beach. There

0:22:49.160 --> 0:22:52.160
<v Speaker 1>was one neighbor in particular who took McAfee to task

0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:56.080
<v Speaker 1>about the dogs, Gregory Fall, a fifty two year old

0:22:56.160 --> 0:23:01.520
<v Speaker 1>former contractor and restaurateur from Florida. Here's Tamara. I did

0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:04.639
<v Speaker 1>know that Greg was really unhappy with the dog situation.

0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:06.919
<v Speaker 1>I had heard that he was trying to talk to

0:23:06.960 --> 0:23:11.000
<v Speaker 1>the mayor about it and anybody he could to try

0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:14.560
<v Speaker 1>and get this dog situation remedied. I've been to that

0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:18.680
<v Speaker 1>area and they were really scary dogs, very very intimidating

0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:20.720
<v Speaker 1>when you walked on the beach. I mean they were

0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:26.480
<v Speaker 1>running free and they would run right up patchen. Pretty ferocious.

0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:30.520
<v Speaker 1>So all I know is that Greg and McAfee thought

0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:34.560
<v Speaker 1>about that quite a bit. Gregfull didn't have much tolerance

0:23:34.640 --> 0:23:39.280
<v Speaker 1>for McAfee's behavior. McAfee is pretty good at intimidating people.

0:23:39.280 --> 0:23:42.320
<v Speaker 1>He's pretty good at manipulating people. But I sensed that,

0:23:42.440 --> 0:23:44.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, Greg Fall just like had been around the

0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:47.159
<v Speaker 1>block a few times himself and was just it was

0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:50.760
<v Speaker 1>having none of it, and so when McAfee pushed, he

0:23:50.840 --> 0:23:55.199
<v Speaker 1>pushed back, And these guys get into a dispute and

0:23:56.600 --> 0:24:05.199
<v Speaker 1>complaints are filed, threats are made. Fall allegedly says, if

0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:07.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, if your dogs keep offing me, I will

0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:14.280
<v Speaker 1>poison them. The dogs are poisoned, and then soon thereafter,

0:24:15.400 --> 0:24:20.240
<v Speaker 1>Greg Fall's housekeeper comes in one morning to find Fall

0:24:20.560 --> 0:24:25.760
<v Speaker 1>shot dead. Here's the police press conference about the murder.

0:24:26.240 --> 0:24:29.160
<v Speaker 1>She arrived at mister Fall's home where she saw him

0:24:29.280 --> 0:24:33.480
<v Speaker 1>in a motionless state, lying in a pool of blood.

0:24:34.520 --> 0:24:37.879
<v Speaker 1>The police were called and the scene was processed. The

0:24:38.000 --> 0:24:41.080
<v Speaker 1>buddy had an apparent gunshot wound to the back of

0:24:41.119 --> 0:24:46.280
<v Speaker 1>the heaven Tamara says that the killing shocked the North

0:24:46.320 --> 0:24:51.000
<v Speaker 1>American retirees who were living in Belize. I mean, Greg

0:24:51.160 --> 0:24:56.520
<v Speaker 1>was well liked. He was horribly executed, you know, so

0:24:56.920 --> 0:24:59.760
<v Speaker 1>there was a lot of sadness and then anger. You know,

0:25:00.160 --> 0:25:04.119
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people immediately assumed that McAfee had some

0:25:04.200 --> 0:25:08.639
<v Speaker 1>liability in it, and they were upset. You know, we

0:25:08.720 --> 0:25:12.000
<v Speaker 1>don't have many murders on the island, and we specially

0:25:12.040 --> 0:25:15.800
<v Speaker 1>don't have expat to expat kind of murder. I mean,

0:25:15.800 --> 0:25:17.840
<v Speaker 1>that's just unheard of. I think that's the only one

0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:20.320
<v Speaker 1>I've ever heard of on this island. So yeah, then

0:25:20.320 --> 0:25:23.400
<v Speaker 1>it was number one conversation at every local watering hole

0:25:23.480 --> 0:25:29.920
<v Speaker 1>even that, and the watering hole gossip speculated that McAfee

0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:34.320
<v Speaker 1>had ordered full be killed. I don't necessarily believe that

0:25:34.359 --> 0:25:39.160
<v Speaker 1>it was McAfee who pulled the trigger, but like I said,

0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:42.760
<v Speaker 1>he is always surrounded by armed guys and some very

0:25:42.800 --> 0:25:47.000
<v Speaker 1>faithful people, and all I think he had to say

0:25:47.119 --> 0:25:51.040
<v Speaker 1>was I want that soob dead, you know, and somebody

0:25:51.119 --> 0:25:55.440
<v Speaker 1>said note taken. You know, in my mind, I think

0:25:55.480 --> 0:25:59.280
<v Speaker 1>that's a likely scenario. And on the very day that

0:25:59.400 --> 0:26:04.040
<v Speaker 1>Greg Fulls body was found, McAfee disappeared. He wasn't in

0:26:04.160 --> 0:26:07.320
<v Speaker 1>his beach house, and though he was hiding from the police,

0:26:07.760 --> 0:26:11.199
<v Speaker 1>he was basically talking to everyone else. Police say he

0:26:11.320 --> 0:26:13.320
<v Speaker 1>is a person of interest, but have not called him

0:26:13.320 --> 0:26:17.400
<v Speaker 1>a suspect or charged him. Despite that, McAfee says he's

0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:21.240
<v Speaker 1>now in hiding fearful of what he calls a corrupt government.

0:26:22.600 --> 0:26:26.679
<v Speaker 1>Belize's Prime minister publicly taunting McAfee Wednesday. It strikes me

0:26:26.760 --> 0:26:30.359
<v Speaker 1>that he's extremely paranoid and in fact that it also

0:26:30.359 --> 0:26:34.360
<v Speaker 1>far as to see bonkers. International and US television networks

0:26:34.440 --> 0:26:38.320
<v Speaker 1>descend on Belize. McAfee gives several of them what they

0:26:38.400 --> 0:26:43.080
<v Speaker 1>call exclusive interviews. He's on the crackly phone line here

0:26:43.160 --> 0:26:46.399
<v Speaker 1>with ABC. I have had an adventure. I want to

0:26:46.400 --> 0:26:48.919
<v Speaker 1>say that right now, sir, flying in the bottom of

0:26:49.080 --> 0:26:55.680
<v Speaker 1>cavs Burt did for almost efeteen hours. I have buried

0:26:55.720 --> 0:26:59.720
<v Speaker 1>myself in sand. I have slept on roofs ide have

0:27:00.359 --> 0:27:03.640
<v Speaker 1>I will do whatever takes in case he didn't catch that,

0:27:04.240 --> 0:27:08.280
<v Speaker 1>he said he buried himself in sand. By his account,

0:27:08.640 --> 0:27:12.520
<v Speaker 1>he's the one being persecuted here running from the police.

0:27:13.440 --> 0:27:16.199
<v Speaker 1>He started spreading a story that he wasn't wanted for

0:27:16.359 --> 0:27:19.680
<v Speaker 1>murder at all, that he was wanted for hacking into

0:27:19.720 --> 0:27:24.959
<v Speaker 1>the Belizian government. Here's McAfee talking to Australia's Channel seven News.

0:27:25.640 --> 0:27:30.040
<v Speaker 1>I hacked the Polician government for five months and I

0:27:30.119 --> 0:27:34.840
<v Speaker 1>have all that data, tens of thousands of hours, recordings

0:27:34.880 --> 0:27:38.840
<v Speaker 1>and videos of the Prime Minister of ordering the murder

0:27:38.880 --> 0:27:44.560
<v Speaker 1>of his competitors. McAfee made these claims with zero evidence,

0:27:45.160 --> 0:27:48.760
<v Speaker 1>Though fears of the cartel became a running theme in

0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:53.800
<v Speaker 1>the remaining years of McAfee's life. ABC also interviewed police

0:27:53.800 --> 0:27:59.359
<v Speaker 1>spokesperson Raphael Martinez. He sounded almost puzzled by McAfee's flight.

0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:03.240
<v Speaker 1>I did not know the reason why he should be well,

0:28:03.840 --> 0:28:07.280
<v Speaker 1>not coming and forward to speak with the police. I mean,

0:28:07.840 --> 0:28:11.640
<v Speaker 1>not coming forward knowing that you are wanted for questioning.

0:28:11.960 --> 0:28:14.280
<v Speaker 1>I mean it begs the question exactly a state of mind.

0:28:14.320 --> 0:28:18.960
<v Speaker 1>Of course, it was incredibly difficult for the murder victim's

0:28:19.040 --> 0:28:23.560
<v Speaker 1>family to watch. Here's his father, Arthur Fall, speaking to

0:28:23.760 --> 0:28:28.040
<v Speaker 1>SPS state Line from Australia. Do you believe that McAfee

0:28:28.280 --> 0:28:32.399
<v Speaker 1>was involved. You're convinced that McAfee was involved, not entirely,

0:28:32.480 --> 0:28:35.520
<v Speaker 1>but but but why would he run? Why did he

0:28:35.640 --> 0:28:39.240
<v Speaker 1>not answer the questions? And if he has nothing to hide,

0:28:39.280 --> 0:28:42.400
<v Speaker 1>why doesn't he speak. It's very frustrating to find that

0:28:42.560 --> 0:28:46.960
<v Speaker 1>that that he gets all the attention and my son's

0:28:47.040 --> 0:28:52.959
<v Speaker 1>kind of a prop for his infamy. The whole time.

0:28:53.400 --> 0:28:57.240
<v Speaker 1>McAfee's playing the police and the media, trying to drum

0:28:57.360 --> 0:29:01.800
<v Speaker 1>up sympathy while evading having to so questions about the murder.

0:29:02.400 --> 0:29:05.840
<v Speaker 1>Here's Jeff again, I mean it was it was McAfee's

0:29:05.840 --> 0:29:13.000
<v Speaker 1>fleeing that created the whole hullabaloo. He it was, it

0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:15.320
<v Speaker 1>was it was his disappearance. It wasn't the discovery of

0:29:15.400 --> 0:29:19.160
<v Speaker 1>Greg Fall's body that set the whole thing in motion.

0:29:19.240 --> 0:29:24.440
<v Speaker 1>It was McAfee running away. McAfee's calling up American national

0:29:24.520 --> 0:29:29.320
<v Speaker 1>news organizations and like ultimately flying down journalist, he actually

0:29:29.320 --> 0:29:32.680
<v Speaker 1>winds up hanging out with a film crew. That's but again,

0:29:32.720 --> 0:29:35.280
<v Speaker 1>it's like what he is mother's milk to a journalist.

0:29:35.440 --> 0:29:41.120
<v Speaker 1>A great narrative, protagonist antagonist, high stakes. McAfee creates a

0:29:41.200 --> 0:29:46.280
<v Speaker 1>compelling narrative, one that overshadows the news of Greg Fall's killing.

0:29:46.960 --> 0:29:50.080
<v Speaker 1>This is a news story about McAfee running for cover,

0:29:50.720 --> 0:29:55.720
<v Speaker 1>fleeing from corrupt Belizean officials. John McAfee had long ago

0:29:55.800 --> 0:30:00.240
<v Speaker 1>recognized the power a news story could have. Remember that,

0:30:00.320 --> 0:30:03.600
<v Speaker 1>even during his anti virus days, he was harnessing the

0:30:03.720 --> 0:30:08.000
<v Speaker 1>media to drive sales of his product. Jules Vasquez watched

0:30:08.040 --> 0:30:12.360
<v Speaker 1>as McAfee dominated the news cycle with his bizarre theatrics,

0:30:12.960 --> 0:30:17.760
<v Speaker 1>and then McAfee went full crazy because you know, he

0:30:17.840 --> 0:30:20.920
<v Speaker 1>really is a white man dancing at that point, right

0:30:21.040 --> 0:30:24.040
<v Speaker 1>like he really is living out this fantasy. It just

0:30:24.240 --> 0:30:29.560
<v Speaker 1>becomes this galloping circus of stupidity that he finds so cute.

0:30:29.640 --> 0:30:33.200
<v Speaker 1>A man is dead, right, But yeah, so you know,

0:30:33.280 --> 0:30:36.600
<v Speaker 1>he comes across as justice, this wild and crazy guy,

0:30:36.640 --> 0:30:39.760
<v Speaker 1>and then he's the wanted person, and so he takes

0:30:39.800 --> 0:30:45.360
<v Speaker 1>on that role completely and goes into full gringo fugitive mode,

0:30:46.400 --> 0:30:50.360
<v Speaker 1>making a mockery of the police along the way, paints

0:30:50.440 --> 0:30:55.200
<v Speaker 1>himself as the victim of judicial or a law enforcement

0:30:55.200 --> 0:31:05.280
<v Speaker 1>system that wants entrup incarcerit and kill him. We'll be

0:31:05.360 --> 0:31:21.280
<v Speaker 1>right back. Francois Garcia is a filmmaker based in Canada.

0:31:21.680 --> 0:31:25.480
<v Speaker 1>He met John mccafee years before Greg Fall's death when

0:31:25.480 --> 0:31:29.080
<v Speaker 1>he and his wife were on vacation in Belize. So

0:31:29.600 --> 0:31:35.280
<v Speaker 1>fast forward to twenty twelve watching CNA, and I see

0:31:35.600 --> 0:31:40.840
<v Speaker 1>the news reports about John McAfee on on their own

0:31:40.920 --> 0:31:44.960
<v Speaker 1>one ponful questioning for the murder of his neighbor. I'm

0:31:44.960 --> 0:31:47.240
<v Speaker 1>a filmmaker, I'm always hunting for a good story. I

0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:51.440
<v Speaker 1>gotta jump on it. So this Canadian filmmaker calls McAfee.

0:31:51.920 --> 0:31:54.560
<v Speaker 1>He says they make a verbal agreement to work together

0:31:55.000 --> 0:31:58.280
<v Speaker 1>with Francois acting as a kind of pr agent free

0:31:58.280 --> 0:32:02.360
<v Speaker 1>of charge. Francois offers to take over who is McAfee

0:32:02.400 --> 0:32:06.720
<v Speaker 1>dot com, a website controlled by McAfee himself that posts

0:32:06.800 --> 0:32:11.080
<v Speaker 1>updates on his whereabouts, and Francois also offers to help

0:32:11.120 --> 0:32:15.440
<v Speaker 1>reach out to the media on McAfee's behalf. At this point,

0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:19.080
<v Speaker 1>he has no opinion on whether McAfee killed fall. I

0:32:19.080 --> 0:32:24.800
<v Speaker 1>immediately understood no matter what his claims were, either way

0:32:24.920 --> 0:32:28.320
<v Speaker 1>was a good story. If he's innocent based on his claims,

0:32:28.320 --> 0:32:31.640
<v Speaker 1>so it's a great story. If he's guilty of what

0:32:31.720 --> 0:32:34.120
<v Speaker 1>he's accused of, it's still a great story. So it

0:32:35.440 --> 0:32:38.720
<v Speaker 1>was a win win. Francois was picturing all the ways

0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:43.080
<v Speaker 1>he could package and sell McAfee story. I'm thinking of

0:32:43.920 --> 0:32:46.840
<v Speaker 1>feature film down the road, I'm thinking of a book.

0:32:47.080 --> 0:32:50.800
<v Speaker 1>My money focus was on documentaries. Francois also says he

0:32:50.880 --> 0:32:54.320
<v Speaker 1>made an offer to get McAfee out of Belize. He

0:32:54.320 --> 0:32:56.240
<v Speaker 1>said he had a friend who could fly a plane

0:32:56.240 --> 0:32:59.560
<v Speaker 1>to Mexico and land near the border. That McAfee would

0:32:59.600 --> 0:33:02.080
<v Speaker 1>need to the border on foot, but that he could

0:33:02.080 --> 0:33:05.120
<v Speaker 1>get him out of the country. He says McAfee didn't

0:33:05.160 --> 0:33:08.720
<v Speaker 1>want to leave the media circus he created. He wanted

0:33:08.800 --> 0:33:13.320
<v Speaker 1>to to stay. He wanted to continue. I mean he

0:33:13.400 --> 0:33:16.240
<v Speaker 1>was saying that he was hiding in a sailboat. He

0:33:16.320 --> 0:33:20.440
<v Speaker 1>was hiding in a cardboard box. He kept moving locations

0:33:20.440 --> 0:33:23.240
<v Speaker 1>on the hour. In reality, he was sitting in a

0:33:23.920 --> 0:33:28.800
<v Speaker 1>small apartment complex about twenty minutes from Belize, a city.

0:33:29.360 --> 0:33:32.840
<v Speaker 1>As a filmmaker, Francois also wanted to get footage of

0:33:32.960 --> 0:33:36.440
<v Speaker 1>McAfee on the ground in Belize, but he didn't have

0:33:36.480 --> 0:33:39.360
<v Speaker 1>a team on Cole to send out to shoot McAfee.

0:33:39.800 --> 0:33:42.800
<v Speaker 1>So he has a new idea, get the press involved

0:33:42.880 --> 0:33:47.240
<v Speaker 1>to basically document McAfee for him, and Francois could always

0:33:47.320 --> 0:33:51.080
<v Speaker 1>license this footage after he makes a call to Vice

0:33:51.160 --> 0:33:55.480
<v Speaker 1>News as then editor in chief Rocco Castoro. I reached

0:33:55.480 --> 0:33:59.680
<v Speaker 1>out to to Rocco and there there were in a

0:33:59.720 --> 0:34:05.760
<v Speaker 1>plane hours leader. These vice reporters, Rocker Costoro and photographer

0:34:05.880 --> 0:34:09.359
<v Speaker 1>Robert King, would get closer to McAfee than any of

0:34:09.400 --> 0:34:13.399
<v Speaker 1>the other journalists in the wake of Gregfall's murder. They

0:34:13.440 --> 0:34:16.920
<v Speaker 1>actually travel with him for weeks and they alter the

0:34:17.000 --> 0:34:21.799
<v Speaker 1>trajectory of McAfee's Central American exploits. They meet up in

0:34:21.840 --> 0:34:24.920
<v Speaker 1>Belize and make their way out of the country all together.

0:34:25.640 --> 0:34:29.799
<v Speaker 1>The Vice reporters start rolling tape on McAfee. The Prime

0:34:29.840 --> 0:34:33.520
<v Speaker 1>Minister has one hundred and fifty thousand dollars bounty. Im

0:34:33.560 --> 0:34:38.279
<v Speaker 1>sholl if you are Sholl, yes kill. There was no

0:34:38.520 --> 0:34:42.040
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and fifty thousand dollars on McAfee's head. But

0:34:42.200 --> 0:34:46.239
<v Speaker 1>McAfee is building his own mythology here. He's the anti hero,

0:34:46.640 --> 0:34:51.560
<v Speaker 1>the outlaw, escaping the corrupt Belizian government. They head for

0:34:51.600 --> 0:34:55.640
<v Speaker 1>the border. On the phone, McAfee is giving instructions to

0:34:55.760 --> 0:34:59.440
<v Speaker 1>Frontois team on what a post on who is McAfee

0:34:59.480 --> 0:35:08.040
<v Speaker 1>dot com. So an unconfirmed, unnamed sources has contacted has

0:35:08.080 --> 0:35:14.439
<v Speaker 1>contacted the blog with the information that mister McAfee has

0:35:14.480 --> 0:35:18.680
<v Speaker 1>been has been arrested just across the border of police

0:35:18.800 --> 0:35:21.439
<v Speaker 1>in the country, in the country of Mexico. Write that down.

0:35:23.760 --> 0:35:26.120
<v Speaker 1>It's so funny to me that he's on the phone

0:35:26.400 --> 0:35:31.800
<v Speaker 1>dictating misinformation. This story actually got picked up. A handful

0:35:31.840 --> 0:35:35.360
<v Speaker 1>of news outlets published that McAfee was arrested in Mexico

0:35:35.840 --> 0:35:42.719
<v Speaker 1>and then had to issue corrections. In fact, McAfee did

0:35:42.800 --> 0:35:47.120
<v Speaker 1>make a successful border crossing. Michael McDonald is a reporter

0:35:47.200 --> 0:35:50.520
<v Speaker 1>for Bloomberg News. In twenty twelve, he was reporting for

0:35:50.640 --> 0:35:54.719
<v Speaker 1>Reuters out of Guatemala. Like so many others, he was

0:35:54.760 --> 0:35:59.560
<v Speaker 1>assigned to cover the software entrepreneurs Saga. He snuck into

0:35:59.560 --> 0:36:02.759
<v Speaker 1>Guanama from Belize. I mean, there are official checkpoints at

0:36:02.760 --> 0:36:05.839
<v Speaker 1>the border, but it is a very porous border, so

0:36:05.960 --> 0:36:09.839
<v Speaker 1>if you want to sneak in, it's it's not that difficult. Um.

0:36:10.239 --> 0:36:12.640
<v Speaker 1>You know, there's a river separating both countries, so it's

0:36:12.680 --> 0:36:14.360
<v Speaker 1>it's pretty easy to cross that at night if you

0:36:14.400 --> 0:36:19.239
<v Speaker 1>want to. And McAfee's entry into Guatemala was actually illegal

0:36:19.560 --> 0:36:21.920
<v Speaker 1>and obviously if you don't go through an official checkpoint,

0:36:22.040 --> 0:36:24.359
<v Speaker 1>you have no stamp in your passport, and he had

0:36:24.360 --> 0:36:28.360
<v Speaker 1>no Guatemala stamp in his passport, so he had essentially

0:36:28.480 --> 0:36:33.680
<v Speaker 1>entered the country illegally. Remember McAfee crossing the border with

0:36:33.719 --> 0:36:39.200
<v Speaker 1>two reporters from Vice is a situation engineered by Francois Garcia,

0:36:39.320 --> 0:36:44.560
<v Speaker 1>who's watching this all unfold from Canada. I'm watching the

0:36:44.719 --> 0:36:48.279
<v Speaker 1>madness from from Afar. But they want with John to

0:36:48.280 --> 0:36:50.799
<v Speaker 1>guatemalaf did it crossed the first by car and then

0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:55.280
<v Speaker 1>by by boat. Photo journalists Robert King took the famous

0:36:55.360 --> 0:37:00.400
<v Speaker 1>Vice picture of John and Rocco and the headline we

0:37:00.440 --> 0:37:05.440
<v Speaker 1>are with McAfee suckers. Vice published the picture of the

0:37:05.480 --> 0:37:09.920
<v Speaker 1>image without removing ge location, and they just went viral.

0:37:11.560 --> 0:37:15.520
<v Speaker 1>Robert King, the photographer who took the photo with geolocation

0:37:15.719 --> 0:37:19.279
<v Speaker 1>data on it, later posted this video online of the

0:37:19.400 --> 0:37:23.240
<v Speaker 1>moment they realized the data had leaked. Our good friends

0:37:23.760 --> 0:37:28.680
<v Speaker 1>friends in New York published the XFT. Okay, here's the

0:37:28.719 --> 0:37:31.120
<v Speaker 1>spin on this. You guys are fucked here. You realize

0:37:31.120 --> 0:37:34.440
<v Speaker 1>that if we got right, you know that you're you're

0:37:34.480 --> 0:37:37.840
<v Speaker 1>fighting for your life. Here. McAfee's voice sounds calm, but

0:37:37.960 --> 0:37:41.680
<v Speaker 1>he's saying dire things to the reporters. That they'll likely

0:37:41.760 --> 0:37:44.879
<v Speaker 1>be tortured because they're with him, that he may lose

0:37:44.920 --> 0:37:47.719
<v Speaker 1>fingers and toes if he's found, and that there'd be

0:37:47.760 --> 0:37:52.360
<v Speaker 1>a massive reward for his capture. McAfee's heard telling them

0:37:52.400 --> 0:37:55.759
<v Speaker 1>that the story now is about how two journalists get

0:37:55.760 --> 0:37:58.920
<v Speaker 1>out of a tight situation. If you get arrested with me,

0:37:59.239 --> 0:38:03.640
<v Speaker 1>there is the chance that you might suffer some gil treatment.

0:38:04.000 --> 0:38:07.480
<v Speaker 1>The way you spend this is that Jesus, they were

0:38:07.480 --> 0:38:10.560
<v Speaker 1>coming to get us. We were on the line. Now

0:38:10.880 --> 0:38:13.840
<v Speaker 1>we became part, we became part of a different story.

0:38:13.960 --> 0:38:17.839
<v Speaker 1>At that point, the Vice reporters who were traveling with

0:38:17.960 --> 0:38:21.960
<v Speaker 1>McAfee were widely blamed for the GEO data leak. We

0:38:22.040 --> 0:38:25.680
<v Speaker 1>asked Rocco for a statement. He sent us this recording,

0:38:25.960 --> 0:38:29.840
<v Speaker 1>which we've edited for length and clarity. He starts by saying,

0:38:29.880 --> 0:38:33.480
<v Speaker 1>the data leak wasn't his fault. Yes, I instructed Vice

0:38:33.480 --> 0:38:36.840
<v Speaker 1>staff multiple times to scrub the metadata from the image.

0:38:37.160 --> 0:38:40.239
<v Speaker 1>I was never given a clear, specific reason for why

0:38:40.239 --> 0:38:43.799
<v Speaker 1>the photo was published with the metadata intact. Rocco says

0:38:43.880 --> 0:38:46.440
<v Speaker 1>that he was in the field with McAfee when the

0:38:46.560 --> 0:38:50.480
<v Speaker 1>leak happened. I started receiving panic calls and messages from colleagues,

0:38:50.560 --> 0:38:54.360
<v Speaker 1>friends and family regarding the exposure of the metadata and

0:38:54.480 --> 0:38:58.080
<v Speaker 1>our exact coordinates. When King and I returned from Guatemala

0:38:58.080 --> 0:39:00.200
<v Speaker 1>to the VICE office in Brooklyn, people looked at It's

0:39:00.239 --> 0:39:03.000
<v Speaker 1>like we were ghosts that has just walked into the office.

0:39:04.600 --> 0:39:09.719
<v Speaker 1>Roca Castoro and Robert King did suffer significant reputational damage.

0:39:10.400 --> 0:39:14.640
<v Speaker 1>In the immediate aftermath of the incident, Vice released a statement.

0:39:15.320 --> 0:39:19.400
<v Speaker 1>Here's an exit quote. We have always been transparent in

0:39:19.440 --> 0:39:23.480
<v Speaker 1>our filmmaking and will continue that practice. This will be

0:39:23.520 --> 0:39:27.560
<v Speaker 1>no exception. The story as a whole has engaged people

0:39:27.600 --> 0:39:31.359
<v Speaker 1>around the world precisely because it is so freaky, and

0:39:31.520 --> 0:39:34.040
<v Speaker 1>even if it shows that we made mistakes on the

0:39:34.080 --> 0:39:37.800
<v Speaker 1>ground during a very hectic and dangerous week of reporting

0:39:37.800 --> 0:39:41.439
<v Speaker 1>on McAfee's mistakes, we are sure it's going to make

0:39:41.520 --> 0:39:49.080
<v Speaker 1>one hell of a documentary end quote. But McAfee's other

0:39:49.160 --> 0:39:54.480
<v Speaker 1>warnings that the revelations of his location would lead to arrests, torture,

0:39:54.520 --> 0:39:59.880
<v Speaker 1>and interrogation did not come true. Here's Jeff Weiss again,

0:40:00.239 --> 0:40:03.160
<v Speaker 1>to be clear, do the cops then come rolling down

0:40:03.200 --> 0:40:06.160
<v Speaker 1>the street? No, they don't. That's not how it works.

0:40:06.920 --> 0:40:11.160
<v Speaker 1>So so McAfee's like, oh shit, and like apparently he

0:40:11.160 --> 0:40:12.920
<v Speaker 1>freaks out. I think it's on They have it on

0:40:13.040 --> 0:40:17.759
<v Speaker 1>film of Macie what you got, so they run, they

0:40:17.800 --> 0:40:21.400
<v Speaker 1>won't have In Guatemala City, reporter Michael McDonald is in

0:40:21.480 --> 0:40:27.480
<v Speaker 1>Guatemala City covering McAfee's escapades. He recognizes the former Attorney

0:40:27.560 --> 0:40:31.320
<v Speaker 1>General of Guatemala in the lobby of the Intercontinental Hotel.

0:40:31.640 --> 0:40:34.680
<v Speaker 1>He had this lawyer named t les Fro Guera, and

0:40:34.840 --> 0:40:37.920
<v Speaker 1>TLEs Farro was sort of this this powerful lawyer that

0:40:37.960 --> 0:40:41.680
<v Speaker 1>you would contact in Guatemala that the elites would use

0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:44.160
<v Speaker 1>when they were in trouble. Ex presidents would hire him

0:40:44.160 --> 0:40:46.759
<v Speaker 1>when they were in trouble, so he was sort of

0:40:46.760 --> 0:40:50.800
<v Speaker 1>the go to lawyer for big cases. The lawyer tells

0:40:50.880 --> 0:40:54.800
<v Speaker 1>Mike that the goal is to keep McAfee from being extradited.

0:40:55.280 --> 0:40:58.560
<v Speaker 1>In this clip from Vice you can hear McAfee asking

0:40:58.600 --> 0:41:01.840
<v Speaker 1>for reassurances that he won't get sent back to Belize

0:41:05.320 --> 0:41:14.440
<v Speaker 1>to because I'm not worried. Of course they want. While

0:41:14.520 --> 0:41:18.520
<v Speaker 1>McAfee was in limbo in Guatemala, Mike interviewed him in

0:41:18.520 --> 0:41:22.680
<v Speaker 1>his hotel room. He said that at times McAfee seemed

0:41:22.719 --> 0:41:25.680
<v Speaker 1>like he wasn't all there. He did come across as

0:41:25.719 --> 0:41:31.640
<v Speaker 1>deranged at some points, um I like he did. He

0:41:31.680 --> 0:41:34.120
<v Speaker 1>did appear to be on drugs. He always insisted that

0:41:34.160 --> 0:41:36.879
<v Speaker 1>he wasn't. You know, some of the things he does

0:41:36.920 --> 0:41:39.560
<v Speaker 1>and some of the things he says to you make

0:41:39.600 --> 0:41:44.839
<v Speaker 1>you wonder are you on drugs now? In the end,

0:41:45.160 --> 0:41:50.120
<v Speaker 1>McAfee was arrested for entering Guatemala illegally. Vice News shot

0:41:50.160 --> 0:41:52.960
<v Speaker 1>footage of him being shoved into a police fan and

0:41:53.160 --> 0:41:57.600
<v Speaker 1>cut it off to prison again, he seems composed. Where

0:41:57.600 --> 0:42:02.120
<v Speaker 1>are they taking you, John John? Where are you going

0:42:03.520 --> 0:42:08.560
<v Speaker 1>to jail? Even from jail mac. If he couldn't stay

0:42:08.560 --> 0:42:12.640
<v Speaker 1>away from the media, he would call reporters, including Mike,

0:42:13.000 --> 0:42:16.000
<v Speaker 1>at all hours. The first time he called it was

0:42:16.200 --> 0:42:18.440
<v Speaker 1>probably three in the morning. Actually, he told me his

0:42:18.520 --> 0:42:22.600
<v Speaker 1>jail cell was lacking color and he wanted me to

0:42:22.760 --> 0:42:26.399
<v Speaker 1>figure out how to get plants into his jail cell

0:42:26.440 --> 0:42:30.000
<v Speaker 1>in order to spruce it up. A couple days later

0:42:30.040 --> 0:42:32.120
<v Speaker 1>he called me from the jail again, and he said

0:42:32.160 --> 0:42:36.400
<v Speaker 1>he was bored, and he wanted me to bring a

0:42:36.719 --> 0:42:39.799
<v Speaker 1>chess set to his jail cell, so he would call me.

0:42:40.040 --> 0:42:41.680
<v Speaker 1>He probably called me three or four times from the

0:42:41.719 --> 0:42:47.319
<v Speaker 1>jail cell. In jail, he's vulnerable. His fate seemed to

0:42:47.320 --> 0:42:54.239
<v Speaker 1>be in the hand of the Guatemalan authorities. As much

0:42:54.280 --> 0:42:58.840
<v Speaker 1>as he tries to influence things from inside prison, he's powerless.

0:42:59.520 --> 0:43:02.840
<v Speaker 1>I don't think he anticipated ending up in a jail

0:43:02.960 --> 0:43:07.160
<v Speaker 1>in Guatemala. I think he probably figured he could work

0:43:07.200 --> 0:43:09.360
<v Speaker 1>his way around that and get out of that. So he,

0:43:09.520 --> 0:43:11.439
<v Speaker 1>you know, he created this whole scene, and he faked

0:43:11.480 --> 0:43:14.600
<v Speaker 1>a heart attack and they took him to the hospital,

0:43:15.520 --> 0:43:19.120
<v Speaker 1>that's right. Fearing that he might be deported back to Belize,

0:43:19.640 --> 0:43:23.200
<v Speaker 1>McAfee tried to retake control by faking a heart attack.

0:43:23.840 --> 0:43:26.520
<v Speaker 1>He was treated for chest pains and then went back

0:43:26.520 --> 0:43:32.279
<v Speaker 1>into detention. Ironically, despite all of his fears, Belizian authorities

0:43:32.360 --> 0:43:35.760
<v Speaker 1>never took concrete steps to bring him back. I remember

0:43:35.800 --> 0:43:38.160
<v Speaker 1>speaking with the police spokesman and Belize and he kept

0:43:38.200 --> 0:43:40.000
<v Speaker 1>telling me, well, he's a you know, John's a person

0:43:40.040 --> 0:43:42.319
<v Speaker 1>of interest and we would like him back. But he

0:43:42.320 --> 0:43:45.720
<v Speaker 1>told me they weren't going to file an official extradition request.

0:43:47.600 --> 0:43:51.080
<v Speaker 1>I always wondered, well why not, And so I was

0:43:51.120 --> 0:43:53.600
<v Speaker 1>always suspicious that maybe they maybe they don't want him back,

0:43:53.600 --> 0:43:55.319
<v Speaker 1>and they just kind of want to get rid of him,

0:43:55.360 --> 0:43:58.160
<v Speaker 1>and they don't really care what his future held. The

0:43:58.200 --> 0:44:03.520
<v Speaker 1>Belizian police didn't respond to numerous requests for comments, and

0:44:03.680 --> 0:44:06.480
<v Speaker 1>Guatemala found a way to get rid of McAfee as well.

0:44:07.320 --> 0:44:10.600
<v Speaker 1>Within the week, Mike gets word that McAfee's going to

0:44:10.640 --> 0:44:15.040
<v Speaker 1>be deported back to the US for entering Guatemala illegally.

0:44:16.000 --> 0:44:19.040
<v Speaker 1>A crowd of journalists rushed to see him off before

0:44:19.080 --> 0:44:22.280
<v Speaker 1>he leaves. So we were at the airport in about

0:44:22.320 --> 0:44:25.200
<v Speaker 1>ten minutes, and we were all there waiting for him.

0:44:25.200 --> 0:44:27.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the entire press crew was there waiting for him.

0:44:27.920 --> 0:44:30.520
<v Speaker 1>Immigration officers were there, the police were there, and the

0:44:30.800 --> 0:44:32.279
<v Speaker 1>pickup showed up, and it was just sort of this

0:44:33.120 --> 0:44:36.120
<v Speaker 1>mad scramble to get the last quote from John McAfee

0:44:36.200 --> 0:44:38.720
<v Speaker 1>before he was driven through this gate at this side

0:44:38.760 --> 0:44:43.280
<v Speaker 1>gate at the airport and onto the tarmac. Mike doesn't

0:44:43.320 --> 0:44:47.960
<v Speaker 1>remember what McAfee said, only that his demeanor was calm.

0:44:48.200 --> 0:44:50.719
<v Speaker 1>The truck went through the gates and onto the tarmac,

0:44:51.200 --> 0:44:53.960
<v Speaker 1>and Mike returned to his office to file a story

0:44:54.400 --> 0:44:57.880
<v Speaker 1>that John mccafee had been deported. My editors were in

0:44:57.880 --> 0:45:00.719
<v Speaker 1>Mexico at the time, and they wanted to he absolutely

0:45:00.719 --> 0:45:03.840
<v Speaker 1>certain that he was on the plane, and so I

0:45:03.920 --> 0:45:05.320
<v Speaker 1>was like, well, how do I figure this out? And

0:45:05.320 --> 0:45:07.319
<v Speaker 1>then I remembered it, Well, I wonder if his Guatemala's

0:45:07.320 --> 0:45:10.040
<v Speaker 1>cell phone is still working. So I called the Guatemala

0:45:10.120 --> 0:45:12.680
<v Speaker 1>cell phone and he picked up, and he was on

0:45:12.719 --> 0:45:14.880
<v Speaker 1>the plane, and you could hear the dinging of the

0:45:15.480 --> 0:45:18.960
<v Speaker 1>seat belt signs and you could hear the captain speaking

0:45:18.960 --> 0:45:21.759
<v Speaker 1>in the PA system, and he said, yeah, I'm on

0:45:21.800 --> 0:45:24.479
<v Speaker 1>my way to Florida. And that was just the first

0:45:24.520 --> 0:45:26.719
<v Speaker 1>flight that they could get me on back to the US.

0:45:26.800 --> 0:45:29.440
<v Speaker 1>And so we're about to take off and I have

0:45:29.480 --> 0:45:35.640
<v Speaker 1>to go. And with that the wild ride was over,

0:45:36.480 --> 0:45:41.120
<v Speaker 1>McAfee is flown back to the United States, away from Belize,

0:45:41.280 --> 0:45:44.040
<v Speaker 1>where he would have had to face questioning over Greg

0:45:44.040 --> 0:45:50.320
<v Speaker 1>folds murder. The victim's family never saw justice. They filed

0:45:50.320 --> 0:45:53.400
<v Speaker 1>a civil suit in the Middle District Court in Florida.

0:45:53.640 --> 0:45:57.400
<v Speaker 1>The judge granted fourth daughter five million dollars to compensate

0:45:57.440 --> 0:46:00.799
<v Speaker 1>for the harm caused by her father's death. The court

0:46:00.840 --> 0:46:05.000
<v Speaker 1>added another twenty million dollars to quote punish McAfee for

0:46:05.040 --> 0:46:09.160
<v Speaker 1>his misconduct and deter further such action in the future

0:46:09.920 --> 0:46:14.359
<v Speaker 1>end quote. When the judgment came down, McAfee refused to

0:46:14.400 --> 0:46:18.000
<v Speaker 1>respond to requests from the court and never appeared to

0:46:18.040 --> 0:46:22.080
<v Speaker 1>answer for the complaint. He tweeted, I was never charged

0:46:22.080 --> 0:46:26.160
<v Speaker 1>with murder by Belizing authorities or any other authority. It

0:46:26.200 --> 0:46:31.640
<v Speaker 1>was a suit based entirely on media reporting. McAfee was

0:46:31.680 --> 0:46:36.319
<v Speaker 1>at least partially right. He was never charged. Many in

0:46:36.360 --> 0:46:40.160
<v Speaker 1>the expact community in Belize, as well as journalists who

0:46:40.200 --> 0:46:44.080
<v Speaker 1>closely reported on McAfee's time there, blame him for Greg

0:46:44.120 --> 0:46:47.800
<v Speaker 1>Fall's murder, and if that's true, then he got away

0:46:47.840 --> 0:46:53.040
<v Speaker 1>with it. In his lifetime, McAfee succeeded in evading consequences

0:46:53.040 --> 0:46:56.319
<v Speaker 1>for many of his actions, but this would be the

0:46:56.400 --> 0:47:01.160
<v Speaker 1>most notorious. You might think that MCA at this point

0:47:01.560 --> 0:47:04.920
<v Speaker 1>is at an all time low. He's sixty seven years old,

0:47:05.480 --> 0:47:09.200
<v Speaker 1>vending off accusations of murder and rape. He says he

0:47:09.239 --> 0:47:12.960
<v Speaker 1>can't access any of his money, that his accounts of frozen,

0:47:13.920 --> 0:47:16.839
<v Speaker 1>but his return to the US is the beginning of

0:47:16.880 --> 0:47:23.680
<v Speaker 1>a personal renaissance. Once again, McAfee reinvents himself and surprises

0:47:23.800 --> 0:47:27.640
<v Speaker 1>everyone by launching an unlikely bid to be the next

0:47:27.719 --> 0:47:32.839
<v Speaker 1>President of the United States. That's next time on Foundering,

0:47:33.320 --> 0:47:42.600
<v Speaker 1>The John mccafee Story. Foundering is hosted by me Jamie

0:47:42.640 --> 0:47:48.440
<v Speaker 1>Tarabay Sean When is our executive producer. Pratana Prakash contributed

0:47:48.480 --> 0:47:52.680
<v Speaker 1>reporting to this episode. Special thanks to Young Young and

0:47:52.800 --> 0:47:57.239
<v Speaker 1>Eileena Peng for helping with production. Molly Nugent is our

0:47:57.280 --> 0:48:02.960
<v Speaker 1>associate producer. Serif Josef is our audio engineer, Mark Million

0:48:03.239 --> 0:48:08.360
<v Speaker 1>and Vandermay, Andy Martin and Molly Shoots are our story editors.

0:48:09.200 --> 0:48:12.040
<v Speaker 1>Be sure to subscribe and if you like our show,

0:48:12.480 --> 0:48:17.400
<v Speaker 1>leave a review. Most importantly, tell your friends see you

0:48:17.480 --> 0:48:17.959
<v Speaker 1>next time.