WEBVTT - Roo Rogers 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.720 Welcome to River Cafe, Table four, a production of iHeartRadio 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:05.040 and Adamis Studios. 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:23.560 Okay, all right, let's go today. Okay, Today, as we 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:26.520 sit here in the River Cafe on a busy Monday lunch, 0:00:26.960 --> 0:00:30.520 I'm joined by someone I know rather well, my son 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:32.000 Rue Rogers. 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:37.040 You were born in. 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.800 Paris, and so would you say your earliest memories are 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:42.040 of living in Paris? 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:46.560 I think my earliest memories are eating food in Paris, 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:50.519 and my earliest memories are of walking into restaurants, and 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.520 I remember going into Benoir and sort of having stories 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:57.080 about how the Pompadou Center was designed there. From the 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:00.440 earliest stages, I think I learned quite quickly only a 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:03.120 passion and love for food, but that you booked the 0:01:03.200 --> 0:01:05.800 restaurant first, and you found the restaurant first, and then 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:07.399 you figured out who you were going to invite and 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:08.520 what you were going to talk about. 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.760 And so I always felt so growing. 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:14.480 Up that like it really was an exploration, not a 0:01:15.319 --> 0:01:18.160 convenience or a necessity, but an exploration. 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:20.640 And so do you think more of your memories at 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:23.560 Paris are beating out rather than home cooking. 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:25.640 I think I still think to this day that like 0:01:25.920 --> 0:01:29.200 really great French markets, you know. And I actually probably 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:33.679 remember better walking through the French market, you know, on 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:36.640 Boulevard a Spy with you and Dad, And I remember 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:41.280 riching dad buying a chicken, a roast chicken, and they 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:43.760 put it in those sort of silver foil bags and 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:45.760 there were no knives and forks, and he would just 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:47.720 literally kept his hand in there and we were just 0:01:48.040 --> 0:01:50.400 the three of us were we were just eating chunks 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:52.480 of chicken as you pulled it off, and it was 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:55.440 the most delicious thing. And then when we needed dessert, 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:58.600 you bought some raspberries and we just took the raspberries 0:01:58.600 --> 0:01:59.200 out of the cotton. 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:01.760 That was love back then, and it was beautiful and 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:02.760 I remember it very well. 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:06.400 Do you still go to markets and shop and eat 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:06.840 that way? 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:09.520 Everyone asked me how I know how to cook? And 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:11.040 I don't think I know how to cook. I know 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:13.840 how to shop, and I think it's two totally different things. 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:17.000 If you love food, you have to love the ingredients 0:02:17.160 --> 0:02:19.679 and you never go out shopping for what you want 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.079 to make. You let the shopping define what you're going 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.560 to make. And that was the biggest lesson I ever 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.760 got growing up about food was It's all about the 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:31.320 quality of the ingredient. I think having a plate of 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:37.720 amazingly right tomatoes is as hard to cook as a 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:40.520 real shit, because you have to know whether those tomatoes 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:42.040 are going to be good, and you have to know 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.639 how to let those flavors come out. And so it's 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:48.440 not about the complexity of the recipe. It's about understanding ingredients. 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:51.520 Yeah, well, so that is very to do with seasonal food. 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:54.320 You say hello to a vegetable that has just arrived, 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:57.080 and at the same time you're saying goodbye. You know too, 0:02:57.200 --> 0:03:00.840 I remember in Paris you might too. Ellen's came in. 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:02.920 We always knew that they were going to come, and 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:04.600 then you know, Fennel would go. 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:06.200 Do you remember. 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:09.280 I remember living in London and how you would come 0:03:09.320 --> 0:03:11.560 back from Paris if I hadn't been able to join 0:03:11.600 --> 0:03:14.440 you on your visit with tons of food from the market. 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:18.320 I mean asparagus. I remember white asparagus coming to London. 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:20.119 I don't think we'd ever seen it in the UK, 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:22.960 Like you couldn't get white expers. You'd come back with 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.400 white spagus or chev that was just seasonal and just 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:27.360 being completed. 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:28.919 But I just have this image of. 0:03:28.880 --> 0:03:32.120 You coming back on a plane back then, right, No, 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.160 no trains, no boats, like you would fly back with 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:37.720 bags fold but you'd brought back just from the market. 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.920 It's not very popular on the plane with smelly cheese Rose. 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:44.680 And you know, the story about Rose Gray was that 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.520 she once reserved a seat for you know, pumpkin and 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:49.640 put it in club and she sat in the economy. 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:50.000 You know. 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:54.360 Actually, as I'm just mentioning Rose, do you have memories 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:56.040 of Rose cooking with Rose? 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:56.840 Yeah? 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:59.360 Well, I worked at the River Cafe when I was 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:03.160 I think seven teen and eighteen, and so working for 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:06.400 your mother and her partner and her best friend is 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:10.560 an interesting experience for your first job, somewhat terrifying and 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:13.840 fast learning. And what's interesting was, you know, Rose was 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:18.279 very exacting and very demanding in what we had to 0:04:18.320 --> 0:04:20.240 do and how we made it and how we delivered it, 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:23.640 but very very charming as well, and someone wanted you 0:04:23.680 --> 0:04:26.600 to live up to being the best best eater you 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:28.360 could be. She was curious about food. 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.800 And if Rose was an influence, going back to Richard 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:35.599 taking the chicken out of the bag with his fingers 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.880 in the market, do you think Richard was an influence 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:40.960 in your food life, your father. 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:46.159 Yeah, I mean I think in a way we all 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:50.920 love food because Richard was a great eater. And I 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:53.360 do really think that being a great eater is a 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:57.360 really fundamental skill. It can be very frustrating great because 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.560 everything is being analyzed all the time, but it is 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:04.760 a very beautiful thing because you're constantly searching for that 0:05:04.800 --> 0:05:08.680 new taste and that new experience and anything else is 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:14.080 not exciting for that. I mean, I remember the Michelin 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:18.039 Guide with yellow post it notes and written notes, and 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.440 I mean like obsession and then like going into bookstores 0:05:21.480 --> 0:05:23.599 and saying, we found this restaurant, but we haven't been 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.599 do you recommend it? Like the amount of diligence we 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:29.920 did just to have lunch because Dad wanted a great 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.120 meal and you wanted to make that possible. 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.280 But you you know, and we did it. 0:05:34.640 --> 0:05:37.200 And so I think a lot of that of you know, 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:41.080 curiosity and food cooking and food quality comes to Dad's 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:42.960 real keenness and passion for eating. 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:45.440 Actually, it's interested to say that, because I do remember 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:47.680 that we used to He had this theory. I don't 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:49.680 know where it came from, that if you wanted to 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.600 find a good restaurant. You always asked a bookstore that 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.240 there was a people who loved books would probably know 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:56.000 where to eat. 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:01.880 Do you remember when Richard went skiing with Bo, my brother, 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:05.160 and they bought asparagus and they had to figure out 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:08.000 how to cook it right? And Dad looked at it 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.239 from an engineering architectural point of view, and he decided 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:13.839 at the top of the sparagus were narrower and the 0:06:13.839 --> 0:06:17.400 bottom of the asparagus were wider, So he cut them 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:20.320 up into pieces because the bottom, the wider pieces would 0:06:20.360 --> 0:06:22.479 need more time in the water than the top pieces. 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:27.760 And sort of right, you know, what's the sparagus standing up? 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:29.640 That's right? So that was that. 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:33.200 Dad took a very sort of like you know, pragmatic 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:34.320 point of view on cooking. 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:37.000 This is probably a question like I only can ask 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.279 you on the series, but tell me about cooking with 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:41.320 your brothers. 0:06:41.640 --> 0:06:42.520 Cooking with them? 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:45.040 Are you trying to preserve our relationship. 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.560 About Ben? 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:55.080 Zad and Ape are all amazing cooks and very very different. 0:06:59.120 --> 0:07:04.760 Ben is very precise and very responsible in terms of 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:06.880 the planet and what he's cooking and how much of 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:07.520 it he's cooking. 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:09.280 But it always tastes perfect. 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:15.480 My only like my standing image probably of like not 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:18.800 just this person, but my entire lifetime of food was 0:07:18.840 --> 0:07:22.119 going to stay at Zad's house and him hanging over 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:26.320 a duck with a hair dryer and drying duck for Christmas. 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:32.040 An Abe is an explorer and you never quite know 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.360 what he's going to eat. I do not like surf 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:37.280 and turf and meat and fish together seem wrong to me. 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:39.600 But when I go to Abe's house, not only am 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:41.960 I going to have scallops with blood sausage, but it's 0:07:42.000 --> 0:07:44.560 going to be delicious. So he is always the king 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:47.040 of surprise. And so my brothers are all very different 0:07:47.040 --> 0:07:47.560 in the way. 0:07:47.440 --> 0:07:50.480 That they cook. For all a wonderful experience as well. 0:07:58.920 --> 0:08:03.880 What about American influence, because you know, I'm American and 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.600 every summer, I think your first flight to the United 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.920 States was when you were four, So you know what 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.560 were those summers, like, what did you eat? What? What 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.000 was the American influence as a child, and then we 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:17.679 can talk about later about as an adult. 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.920 Well, I think that in general, there were four things 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:24.960 that I can remember that we really loved eating in America. 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:29.480 It went hot pastriami, sandwich, corn in a cob steak, 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:32.680 and lobster, and I think there were muscles that we 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.560 used to pick off the beach, but unfortunately, with global warming, 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.520 those muscles have gone smaller and that's not possible. But 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:40.880 we used to love those things again because there's such 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:42.800 strong taste, Like the lovester would come out of the 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:44.320 sea and you would just boil it and you would 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:44.559 eat it. 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:46.560 And the steak, I mean, it was just you didn't 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:47.400 have anything like it. 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:50.480 And then you know, going to the Carnegie Deli and 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:53.559 having a hot pastriarami sandwich with strong mustard was delicious. 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:58.200 I think that, you know, the real American influence was 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:01.120 not in food though. I think the real influence was 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.000 in you, mum, and bringing over the idea that food 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:07.520 could be used in a sort of to make you 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.920 feel at home, right that like, if food comes to 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:13.640 the table, you will instinctly want to serve it to 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:16.280 other people, even if it's not your house, Ruthy, you 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:20.319 will want to help and serve others. And this notion 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:24.280 that food could come with such incredible generosity and warmth 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:28.200 was something that definitely came from your business and what 0:09:28.360 --> 0:09:31.000 I think makes the River Cafe and what you do 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.760 so extraory is that you only say yes and yes. 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.720 It's such a nice word. It's a beautiful word, even 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:40.640 when you might not be able to carry through it. Yes, 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:42.120 it's still a nice place to start. 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:43.320 It's a beautiful answer. 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:48.640 So, Rue, you went to university in New York, you 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.360 went to Columbia. What was it like being a student 0:09:51.400 --> 0:09:52.400 in terms of food? 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:56.120 Well, I think the most important thing I learned as 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:58.520 a student at university was the value of a slice 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:02.360 of pizza, because we lived on pizza, and it's delicious. 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:04.839 New York pizza is delicious. It's a very different thing. 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:07.480 It can be a snack, can me. Meal has to 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:09.200 be eaten the right way. The first time I ate 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:11.520 slice of pizza, I didn't fold it and I kept 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:14.600 it angled down and it dripped grease all over my clothes. 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:17.839 So I remember very much culturally having to get used 0:10:17.840 --> 0:10:21.280 to the notion of fast food but also good food. 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:23.920 And I would cook for people all the time, and 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:25.800 I love that. And again I learned about New York 0:10:25.920 --> 0:10:29.040 ingredients and I learned about where to buy what, and 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.240 it was, you know, it was really exciting. 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:33.600 Do you remember what you would cook for those genners 0:10:33.640 --> 0:10:34.520 with your friends? 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:36.800 So the thing that I. 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:40.120 The way I made friends as a child was that 0:10:40.160 --> 0:10:42.160 we would have parties and then when everybody got a 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:44.839 little bit too drunk, I would make pussa with tomato sauce, right, 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:46.560 And so that was a very useful thing that I 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.120 learned very early on was that it was very good 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:51.200 to have something that you could make quickly and easily 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:53.840 and would probably help soak up some of the alcohol 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:57.760 and everybody's system. That has continued to with me ever since. 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:00.480 Now I seve it to my kids. It is always 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:02.719 something that you can get going very very quickly. But 0:11:03.080 --> 0:11:06.480 I would cook when I was in in college, whatever 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:10.720 was fresh. My favorite meal was muscles and spicy tomato sauce. 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:12.760 So I'd buy muscles and I'd combine that with a 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:15.920 tomato sauce. And the other thing I really love about 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:18.360 New York, which I experienced a lot of when I 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:20.760 went to college, is you never self conscious of eating 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.880 on your own right. People are always stopping and eating 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:26.880 and eating by themselves. And that's something very very nice. 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:28.520 You know, you see people with a book in a 0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:30.880 diner reading. That's that's a really beautiful thing. 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.200 Today. Do you take your children to restaurants do you 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:37.400 work in restaurants? How do you feel about going into 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.000 a restaurant? What do you look for? That's a multiple 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:44.800 question to ask a multiple question. Ever since Jeff Goldblum 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:46.559 told you I could ask a multiple. 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:51.800 Questions, I have always used restaurants as public space, and 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:55.400 I like to move. I need to be around other 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.120 people when I think, and there's nowhere better to be 0:11:58.160 --> 0:12:02.040 around other people and surprise by people then restaurants. It's 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:07.160 about a certain level of discomfort because what you're really 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:09.720 doing is you're putting yourself in somebody else's hands in 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:11.880 a restaurant that you don't know whether they're going to 0:12:11.920 --> 0:12:14.000 cook something the way you want it cooked, or whether 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.000 it should be good, with people that you've never met before, 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:20.040 seen before, and not knowing what conversations you might have, 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:23.760 and you're taking a risk, right, and in that risk 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.160 comes really beautiful things when it really pays off, when 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.640 you've really had a meal that surprises you. Right, that's 0:12:30.720 --> 0:12:34.040 sort of like unexpected serendipity, right, which you could never 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:35.000 get from delivery. 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:36.280 You're never going to get. 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.600 Serendipity when something is delivered to your hop. Right. 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.160 You get serendipity when you take a walk down an 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:43.400 alley and you find a restaurant and you just walk in, 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.200 and one time out of ten it will just turn 0:12:46.240 --> 0:12:47.160 out to be amazing. 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:48.520 And when you discover. 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:52.000 That, in that risk, you found something that's truly creative 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:53.120 and truly rewarding. 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:54.439 And that's what I'm always looking for. 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.000 Do you have a memory of food in terms of 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:01.720 relationship or impressing someone? 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:04.440 I fell in love with my wife ever a dover Soul. 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.800 We were at Sha George restaurant and we had only 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:13.360 just met properly, and I ordered a dover Sole and 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:18.280 as it came fully on the bone, she and I 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.000 were talking and without taking a. 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:22.679 Break, I fillaid the fish and. 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:26.320 Ate it, and little to my knowledge that somehow really 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:30.480 impressed her. And she found that sort of creative skill 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:34.400 with my knife and fork and devowing that she George 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:38.120 dover Sol extremely sexy and allurin and a year later 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:38.760 we were married. 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:54.880 You've actually lived in many places and right now you're 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.520 living in Africa. How does that influence your food? 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:02.400 Yeah? Travels, I mean every where I travel, I obsessively 0:14:02.440 --> 0:14:04.880 look out for the most local restaurant. 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.400 So we don't have mechlin guides anymore. 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.480 But we have the web, and we also have friends 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:12.400 and ways to make friends, and I look for the 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:16.199 most authentic food there is. When I went to Ethiopia 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:19.200 a couple of years ago, you know, my add taxi 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:21.320 driver who picked me up in the airport, stayed with 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:24.040 me for three days, and the best meals I had 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:27.360 were in his family home, and they were extraordinary. 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:29.800 I'll them forget what were they like. 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:33.920 My favorite actually was when he took me to the 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:38.080 market and it's the meat market in Addie Adaba, and 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.680 there are just enormous carcasses of meat hanging from the 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:46.040 top and people shooting flies away from them, and you 0:14:46.160 --> 0:14:48.440 walk in and he says, we're going to eat here. 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:51.680 So I said, okay, just choose your meat. And so 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:53.760 I choose a couple of cuts of meat. I even 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:58.600 choose some sweetbreads to be adventurous, and I go terrific 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:00.760 and they cut it off and they take it away. 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:02.360 We go sit down on the back and it comes 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:05.400 back in literally ninety seconds later, and they go, God, 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.480 they cook it quick here and it was raw. And 0:15:08.520 --> 0:15:12.080 they serve all those meats raw with a spicy chili 0:15:12.120 --> 0:15:17.239 sauce or nut sauce and a really amazing Ethiopian coffee 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:19.320 and I was there with everyone. 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:20.320 And we ate it and it was amazing. 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.560 You're working in South Africa, what is the food like 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:24.480 in Johannesburg. 0:15:25.000 --> 0:15:28.120 The food that I've had in South Africa is the 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:31.800 truly South African food is delicious. They have extraordinary meat 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:35.600 in South Africa. The steak is exceptional. A lot of 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:39.080 stews and so a lot of meats cooked in tomato 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.600 sauce which is amazing, and some basic grains like the 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:44.160 equivalent of polento as well. 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:49.400 So you talk about being very dventurous with your food, 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:55.560 eating raw sweetbreads and Ethiopia and traveling to you know, 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:57.920 all over the world in Nepal and eating this food, 0:15:57.920 --> 0:15:59.600 But do cook that at home? 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.080 I don't know the ingredients well enough and I don't 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:04.880 know where to go shopping for them, and therefore I 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.920 would rather eat out and have somebody who does know 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:09.680 them and knows how to cook them. So at home 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:14.400 we eat pretty western soule food. My wife, Bernie, though, 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:18.960 who is Chinese American, makes the most amazing Chinese and 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:21.200 Asian food as well as Indian food as well. 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.480 What does she make She. 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:28.960 Makes incredible dumplings and wantons, which we all love and cherish. 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:31.600 I mean, what's interesting is that there is very few 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:35.680 things in Western food that is completely original, right, and 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.080 so we all get influenced by everyone else. So an 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:43.440 amazing wanton is actually like an amazing ravioli, or she 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.280 would correct me and say, an amazing ravioli is like 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.360 an amazing wanton. Since China has existed and been cooking 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.080 this food for quite a long a lot longer, which 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.360 is to say, it's really based about the quality of 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.560 the pasta or the wrapper, as they say, and how 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:58.840 light that is and how thin that is, and how 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:02.680 light can you get it, and keeping the fitting as 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.760 simple as possible, and if the chibes are good, it 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.480 makes the one time. And so again you're very dependent 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:10.240 on fresh quality ingredients. 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:14.520 You've worked in NGOs, You've written a book, What's Mine 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:21.359 Is Yours, about sustainability and sharing and consumers society. You've 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:28.280 traveled to Afghanistan and Nepal, working with people of different cultures. 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.840 Do you feel that the politics of food is something 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:33.680 that interests you. 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:38.639 I'm less interested in the politics of food at the 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:40.639 micro level, which is not to say I don't think 0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:43.480 it's important, but like the idea of the organic movement 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.680 and such, is less important to me. At the macro level, 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:49.639 which is around food security. 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:50.399 I'm very interested in it. 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:54.919 We talk a lot about overpopulation, but what we, in 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:57.360 my opinion, should really be talking about is food security. 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:01.359 There is more than enough resources in the world to 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:05.240 feed more people on this planet, but we choose politically 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:08.920 not to feed those people. We choose to not send 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:12.080 grain to places that it's needed. We choose to have 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:14.520 cows and dairy where we don't need more milk. 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:15.200 Right. 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:19.000 We choose not to provide loans to small holder farmers 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.840 in Africa and India, And so we make choices every 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.400 day around food security and providing food security to billions 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.320 of people, right that have nothing to do with whether 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:30.480 we actually have the ability as a planet to sustain 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:34.399 those resources we could And I passionately believe this feed 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.199 everybody in a healthy, equitable way that is good for 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:38.760 the planet. 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:40.600 Should we choose to it's a choice. 0:18:41.119 --> 0:18:44.280 Is we the worst as we developed nations? Who is 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:46.919 when you say we could feed the planet? Who is 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:47.639 the we? 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:51.440 I mean? Food security is really an issue that's defined 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:56.280 by Western powers and Western governments, and if we wanted 0:18:56.320 --> 0:19:00.760 to again and remove subsidies and read this stribute food, 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.240 we could solve food security forever. 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:04.920 Right. 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.080 I think looking at innovation to solve this problem is 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.080 a really interesting question. And I think if you look 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.840 at things like impossible meats, it's very exciting. I mean, 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:21.639 the transformation to our ecosystem by removing hamburger meat or 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:25.879 beef from McDonald's would be huge, right, I mean, that 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:29.960 would just just change the world. But again, while as 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:32.280 much as I like the idea of innovation and I 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:36.520 believe in it, it is people, not technology that need 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:39.720 to make changes, and those people are leaders and governments, 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.439 and it starts at you know, as much as I 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.560 believe in, you know, becoming a vegetarian, you know, talk 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:49.040 to talk, walk to walk, I really believe that if 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:52.880 political leaders came together and made hard choices and decisions 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:55.800 in a collective way, we could solve most of problems 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:57.440 as well as innovation. 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:03.440 So rue, you've talked about comfort and food, the comfort 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:08.720 of food at home, the discomfort of experienced food often 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:12.040 in the restaurant, the comfort of food of cooking for 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:15.800 your children. You use that word very often in describing 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:18.120 what you love about food and what you look for 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:22.960 in food. And I was wondering, as I've asked everyone, 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:27.399 if you needed comfort from food, not the taste or 0:20:27.440 --> 0:20:33.520 the excitement or the adventure, what would be your comfort food. 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:37.359 Well, I am very, very privileged because it's not a 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:39.280 question of what do I eat, it's a question of 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:41.240 where do I go. And I go home to see 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:43.399