1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: today's best minds and a pardon. January sixth, Rider is 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: accused of threatening to kill a minority leader, Jeffries. Who 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: could have seen it? Not I We have such a 6 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: great show for you today. To The Contrary's own Charlie 7 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: psych stops by to talk about Trump's destruction of the 8 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: White House, both literally and metaphorically. And we'll talk to 9 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,640 Speaker 1: law Fair's own Anna Bauer about her insane text with 10 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 1: Prosecutor Lindsey Halligan. 11 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 2: But first the news Smiley Ice got that generous budget, 12 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 2: and you know, we've seen some reports that they're not 13 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 2: having the easiest time hiring, which is why they're giving 14 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 2: student loan forgiveness and very sad hiring. Basically anybody who 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:52,959 Speaker 2: could grudge ooh immigrants there. 16 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: Yes, slap on some Oakley's bad boy. You're coming Ice. 17 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: So there's a new report here from independent journalist jud 18 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 2: Legum on what they did buy and it's pretty fucking horrifying. 19 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, here's the story. Ice has ten billion dollars and 20 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: they're spending it. Actually, it's more it's like forty eight 21 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 1: billion dollars and they're spending on seven hundred percent more 22 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:19,120 Speaker 1: on weapons. What they bought will terrify you. So in 23 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen they spent just five point seven million on 24 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: the small arms category. Now they're buying things like Tomahawk missiles. 25 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: Now they're buying things like guns, armor guided missile warheads 26 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: with explosive components. Those are very good in cities. These 27 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: are people, by the way, who couldn't get into the 28 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: army or the police. Okay, so Chicago is gonna be 29 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: everywhere like that's what we're seeing. Like the minute New 30 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: York is able to elect a mayor that is not 31 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: in the tank for Trump, Donald Trump is going to 32 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: send ice here and I think we all see that 33 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: coming them all the way. By the way, the susident 34 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 1: should not be threatening states like this is not how 35 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: any of this is supposed to work. 36 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't like the idea of people like this 37 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: having weapons in our streets, that there's no recourse about 38 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:15,680 Speaker 2: what they do, and it seems they can just do 39 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: whatever they want. 40 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: Speak for yourself. I love it, Just kidding, Molly. 41 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 2: You and I have a upcoming project on regulation. 42 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: We love it. 43 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 2: We do. And one of the things we talk about 44 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 2: it is collusion in real estate and all the fuckery 45 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 2: that can go on to raise housing prices which helps 46 00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 2: squeeze Americans, and how regulation protects you from it. But 47 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 2: the US Supreme Court is declined to revive an antitrust 48 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 2: lawsuit against Siloh. 49 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:47,119 Speaker 1: Corporate corruption they love it. In case you're wondering, this 50 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: crew very big on corporate corruption. No one should be 51 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: surprised that this Supreme Court has decided that if you're 52 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: a big company and you want to do crimes, it's 53 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: all good. I'm not surprised by any of those, but 54 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: I do think you know, they can't just rule for Trump. 55 00:03:03,600 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: They also have to rule for big businesses. You know, 56 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: this Supreme Court, they are very involved in radically making 57 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: the country to look like their image, and I for one, 58 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: am not surprised. 59 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to definitely need to have courts that 60 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 2: actually keep our regulations intact and directives and actually have 61 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 2: these agencies like the FTC be able to have teeth 62 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,760 Speaker 2: in the future. So let's hope we get there someday. 63 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, the court is going to have to 64 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 1: be looked at, But for today, they are just going 65 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: to blank check any corrupt Republican thing they can. 66 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 2: So I'm going to shock you. And we've never discussed 67 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 2: this on this podcast ever. No, never independent newspapers. They 68 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 2: are dying in a lot of this is because of 69 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: private investment firms. 70 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: So we are in a local news crisis right now. 71 00:03:54,840 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: Not surprising, but very annoying. We got here through ibate 72 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: equity firms buying newspapers trying to make them more profitable 73 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: by and basically crushing them. You know, we are in 74 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: a news desert. So the more you have no local news, 75 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: the more you don't trust local news, the more you 76 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: start trusting, you know, ai news that says your city 77 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 1: is a healscape when you can walk down the street 78 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,239 Speaker 1: and see it's not. And this is like this scary, 79 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: uncanny valley stuff. So more than a third of the 80 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 1: eight thousand, eight hundred and ninety one US newspapers that 81 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: existed twenty one years ago are gone two hundred and 82 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 1: thirteen have zero locally based news sources. That means that 83 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: you are just you know, and some of these places 84 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,919 Speaker 1: have only one news source and it's a conservative news 85 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: source or it is like a Sinclair or something. 86 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of time, it's those ones that are 87 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 2: real big aggregates where they're just not really doing local 88 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 2: news anymore, and it's just news from across the state, 89 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: aggregated from a few different papers, and it's kind of 90 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 2: useless to your local area. 91 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's what we're seeing, and that is kind 92 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 1: of shocking. 93 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 2: So North Carolina's advanced new congressional maps to help Republicans 94 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 2: get additional House seats. 95 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: So welcome to the arms race where Republicans tried desperately 96 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:31,839 Speaker 1: to prevent a midterm loss by redistricting. This is like 97 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: an insane thing to do. And what they're doing here 98 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: is they're trying to rob black people of representation. That's 99 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,679 Speaker 1: something that the Supreme Court is looking into. 100 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 3: Two. 101 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 1: This is section two of the Voting Rights Act, which 102 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: they are going to rule on. So Republicans have eleven 103 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: hour fourteen seats in North Carolina. Again, here's what's happening. 104 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: And I think it's really important to Republicans in Texas 105 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:01,479 Speaker 1: give Trump five House seats because he doesn't want to lose. 106 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: Then Gavin Newsom goes and gets five for the Democrats. 107 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:12,919 Speaker 1: Then even now we're seeing different Republican states will redraw 108 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: in order to please the Mango god king. I want 109 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: to point out something that I think is really important, 110 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: which is, and I think this is really really really important. 111 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 1: A normal, healthy democracy has checks and balances. So when 112 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 1: the president says I'm doing unpopular stuff some of it 113 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: is criminal, I don't want to get investigated, So redraw 114 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 1: the congressional maps for me. The people say, no, we're 115 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: not going to do that. That's not what's happening here. 116 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: What's happening here is that the administration that serves this 117 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 1: president is just doing whatever whatever he wants. We're going 118 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: to see more like this. Charlie Sykes is the author 119 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: of the Newsletter to the Contrary and the book The Iconic, 120 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:02,479 Speaker 1: the Brilliant and also very charming Charlie Sykes. 121 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 4: Boy, that's you're putting a little pressure on today. Sorry. 122 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: Right now we're going to talk about the Nazi group chats, 123 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: not one, but do Nazi group chats. 124 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 4: You know, if you didn't know better, It's almost like 125 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 4: it's a pattern, isn't it. I mean, you know, why 126 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,679 Speaker 4: why does this keep happening to this nice bunch of guys? 127 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 4: But it is awfully interesting. Okay, let's leave the yrs 128 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 4: aside for the moment is Paul and Grascia, who's the 129 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 4: nominated to run the office of the Office I mean 130 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 4: special counsel. I mean it's a it's a big deal job. 131 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 4: And you know what, it's not actually shocking if you 132 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 4: know anything about Paul and Grossia that he writes stuff 133 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 4: like this. The fact that it hasn't been disqualifying yet, 134 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 4: that's what speaks volumes. I mean, this is the key thing. 135 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 4: Guys go around. You know, I love Hitler, you know, 136 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 4: I'm kind of a Nazi, and it's like they are 137 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,840 Speaker 4: still in good standing in MAGA and I don't know, 138 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 4: what do you think, Molly, what are the odds JD. 139 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 4: Van's going to come out and say, oh, come on, 140 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 4: we got to stop this pearl clutching. 141 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: Tell us more about Paul Grossia, because I don't know 142 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: who he is, so it sounds like you have some 143 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: experience with him. I'm just actually curious. 144 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 4: Well, I don't have the notes in front of me, 145 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 4: but but I will say that he's one of those 146 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 4: guys you know, on the far edges of the fever 147 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 4: swamps who's been a troll for some time. As the 148 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 4: extremes have become the mainstream. He's sort of been dragged 149 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 4: along with with the tide, and I don't can it 150 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 4: Just like this one almost feels like a digression because 151 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 4: before we see its taping this, I'm looking at Barry 152 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 4: Weiss's the Free Press. 153 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 1: I was actually going to ask you about Barry Weis, 154 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: so go. 155 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 4: On, yes, well, and they had this piece They're they're 156 00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 4: kind of now getting concerned about it. It kind of 157 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 4: seems like something's happening on the right that they seem 158 00:08:44,160 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 4: to be, you know, being overrun by all these extremists, 159 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 4: these conspiracy theories and these nut jobs, and it's like, huh, 160 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 4: you know, how long has this been going on? 161 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 2: Really? 162 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 4: You know, and when you have the the nick fuintes Is, 163 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 4: who's basically a neo Nazi except for the Neil part, 164 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 4: sort of pounding on the door and going okay, I'm next, 165 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 4: I'm next up, you know. And so if some of 166 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 4: us have been saying, you know, you are perhaps identifying 167 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 4: a pattern that has been right in front of your 168 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 4: face for the last ten years. 169 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: And this, I think is ultimately going to be Barry 170 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: Wise's problem. And it's the problem that a lot of 171 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 1: Republicans have found themselves on, which is there's not a 172 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: wide lane in that party for socially liberal and right 173 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: like you're gay, you're zionist. Okay, a lot of conservatives 174 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 1: or Zionists that that been diagrammed. But then the Nazi 175 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: stuff that kind of knocks you out of the contention there. 176 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 4: You would think, so, you know, I would well have 177 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 4: to check back in about a month or so to 178 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 4: you know, find out what's acceptable and what's not. I mean, 179 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 4: I think the extraordinary thing about last week with the 180 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 4: you know, Hitler Hitler standing young Republicans was that the 181 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 4: Vice President of the United States felt the need to 182 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 4: step forward to minimize and defend them. Now, yeah, you know, 183 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 4: so again if they were just sort of washed out, 184 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 4: everybody said, okay, yeah, definitely that's a red line. Yeah, 185 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 4: that's disqualifying. You know, fine, let's move on. Embarrassing. But 186 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 4: it is interesting that that JD. Vance had to come 187 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 4: out and signal to them, I got your back, because 188 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 4: the most of the world sees that as an incredible 189 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 4: outrage JD. 190 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 2: Vance. 191 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 4: And this is the key to sup why there's a 192 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 4: little substance here. He thinks those are his constituents, not 193 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 4: necessarily the people on the chat, but the people who 194 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,480 Speaker 4: are adjacent to the chat, and so all the rhetoric 195 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,440 Speaker 4: about pearl clutching and yeah, you know, kids will be kids, 196 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 4: they weren't kids. 197 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: Some of them were fortunate. 198 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 4: Jd. Vance does not want to be outflanked on the right. 199 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 4: So everybody is like, look, everybody knows Paul and Grassey 200 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 4: is a complete nut. I mean they all know that. 201 00:10:52,559 --> 00:10:54,679 Speaker 4: I mean, look, we have Cash Battel and we have 202 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:58,080 Speaker 4: you know, Telsea Gabbard and RFK Junior. Yeah. But the 203 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 4: thing is that right now, it's not even about right 204 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 4: left ideology. It's about absolute slavish adoration and a refusal 205 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 4: to break with MAGA in any way whatsoever. And this 206 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 4: is going to be the problem with that, you know, 207 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,360 Speaker 4: the Barry Weiss I think and by the way, I'm 208 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 4: not as down on her as other I think she's 209 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 4: going to be way out of her depth there, way 210 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 4: out of her depth. But on both sides, things becomes 211 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 4: shakier as the Republican Party becomes more like more like 212 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 4: North Korea, you know what I mean, you know you 213 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 4: know where I'm getting that here. 214 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, And you know, I want to just say this 215 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: should be disqualifying on the left and the right Nazi stuff. Yeah, right. 216 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 4: And and look, Democrats, you know, can't get into the 217 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 4: loop of thinking, well, if they're not going to disqualify 218 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 4: anyone on their side, we have to stick with them. 219 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 2: No. 220 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 4: You know again, that's the difference between insane party and 221 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 4: the sane party. And also, this is one of those 222 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 4: moments where Democrats, I think, have they Well, they're going 223 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 4: to have to make this decision over and over again. 224 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 4: Do you want to, you know, go down in flames 225 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 4: with your guy, Do you want to scratch your ideological 226 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 4: id or are you going to do what it takes 227 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,520 Speaker 4: to win either the House or the Senate or both 228 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 4: of them? Because quite frankly, I mean, here's the thing. No, 229 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 4: King's great, fantastic, wonderful, successful, beyond the wildest expectations. And 230 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 4: yet you're not going to have a meaningful resistance to 231 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 4: Donald Trump unless benefessially, yeah, unless you win the election. 232 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 4: That's going to require a certain ruthlessness. 233 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. I didn't mean to step on your punchline there, 234 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: because it is important and you got to win those elections, 235 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 1: and you also got to run in this redistricting arms race. 236 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: The Supreme Court has this opportunity to shut down this 237 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 1: redistricting arms race to say, like no redistrict day. Maybe 238 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 1: they get to even maybe they throw out the Voting 239 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: Rights Act and they Republicans get twenty seats. Either way, 240 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 1: the Founding Fathers did not. This was not the plan. 241 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: Like clearly there was no textualist interpretation where like the 242 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 1: President wanted them to just cut away, you know, like 243 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 1: talk us through how insane this is. 244 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 4: Well, I mean it is insane, and it is dangerous, 245 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 4: and it will make absolutely everything worse. It will become very, 246 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 4: very difficult to unwine. The Supreme Court opened the door 247 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 4: to this. I think it was involving the Wisconsin case 248 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 4: where they basically said partisan jerrymandering is not a problem. Look, 249 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 4: I agree with you. I will be glad to have 250 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 4: them shut this down. I think that that in fact, 251 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 4: though there will show difference to the States. Look, you 252 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 4: want to talk about originalism in the Constitution, and I'm 253 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 4: going off a little bit of a tangent here. The 254 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 4: originalist interpretation of both the Constitution and the Declaration of 255 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 4: Independence is no kings right. It is the entire point 256 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 4: click of the original text of the Constitution was to 257 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 4: divide power so that you would not have an emperor 258 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 4: who would be able to dictate to the country. It's 259 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 4: why you create three branches of government, why create checks 260 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 4: and balances, why you create why you have a Bill 261 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 4: of rights, why you enumerate the powers the government has 262 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 4: and it doesn't have. So you look at all the 263 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,880 Speaker 4: stuff that's going on right here, and no, I think, Molly, 264 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 4: I think it's safe to say that this is not what. 265 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: The founders. 266 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 3: He said. 267 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 4: So the Supreme Court justices who say our job is 268 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 4: to revive the original intent of the Constitution, look out 269 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 4: of your fucking windows. 270 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: Do you honestly exact? 271 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 4: This is this what I mean? 272 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 5: Know? 273 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 4: And I hope we talk about Donald Trump being, you know, 274 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 4: the first president to actually begin to destroy the White 275 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 4: House at some point, because again, I the founding fathers 276 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 4: that kind of probably remember when the British burned down everything, 277 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 4: probably had a different attitude toward the vandalization of the 278 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 4: White House. Right now, but I'm sorry, now, I'm now, 279 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 4: I'm just now I'm wandering now, I'm just I'm just. 280 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: I wonder if you could talk about the White House, 281 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 1: those pictures of the White House ball because I actually 282 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: think there are a couple of things this administration is 283 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: doing that are like, I mean, small relative to some 284 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: of the other stuff they're doing, but I actually think 285 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: are really going to hurt them in profound ways. And 286 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: I believe that what Donald Trump is doing to the 287 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 1: East wing right now those pictures that I saw, people 288 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: are I think deeply affected by them, and I don't 289 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: think that this administration has like completely priced in how 290 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 1: traumatic those pictures are. 291 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 4: I hope you're right about this, because you could certainly imagine, 292 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 4: you know, on Earth one point zero, somebody is saying 293 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 4: that the president, you know, at a time when the 294 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 4: government is shut down, when people are faced with massive 295 00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 4: increases in their healthcare prices and inflation is resurging, the 296 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 4: only optics of tearing down the White House to install 297 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 4: a two hundred and fifty million dollars goldfist stooned ballroom 298 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 4: paid by your billionaire oligarch friends. That just wouldn't look right, 299 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 4: you know. It kind of cuts against your populist grain. 300 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 4: And so you have a you have a you know, 301 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 4: the critics, the Democrats have a bit have an opportunity 302 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 4: to connect some dots here. 303 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:14,320 Speaker 3: You know that. 304 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 4: And by the way, as I wrote in my newsletter 305 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 4: the sometimes called wait just to the contrary to Actually 306 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 4: I actually led with this, and I said, you know, 307 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 4: sometimes the symbolism is just two on the nose, too obvious. 308 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 4: Here's Donald Trump vandalizing the White House. So I think 309 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 4: people ought to be offended at the arrogance it shows, 310 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 4: but also how out of touch this, you know, the 311 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 4: the people's president really is when you're talking about this 312 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 4: gaudy ballroom that he's that he's doing this. 313 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: They can fit nine ninety nine people, not a thousand going. 314 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, So I mean, I I hope that they make 315 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 4: that case. I mean, you know, we we've I don't 316 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 4: want to be the ten millionth person to comment on 317 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 4: the Democrats messaging issues, but I think that you can 318 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 4: connect some dots to this, this overriding thing that, you 319 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 4: know what, Donald Trump is really not on your side. 320 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 4: Donald Trump really doesn't give a shit about you. Donald 321 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 4: Trump will shit on you, but he really doesn't give 322 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,640 Speaker 4: a shit about the problems you have. And because who 323 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:23,479 Speaker 4: was he for, He's for himself and his you know, 324 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 4: his age of Gilded Age friends, creating this Gilded Age 325 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 4: obscenity in the White House. 326 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:37,959 Speaker 1: I wonder if you could talk about the House of Representatives, 327 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: Mike Johnson has sent them home. There's a calendar. I'm 328 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: sure you've seen this graphic of account. Yeah, they've worked 329 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,400 Speaker 1: like an hour. I mean, basically talk us through what 330 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: you think about that. 331 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:50,920 Speaker 4: Well, it is interesting. I mean, here you have Mike 332 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 4: Johnson who's got plenty of time to provide commentary about 333 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,760 Speaker 4: the No King's rally, which you call the Hate America Rally, 334 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 4: and then he's actually defending the Trump's AI thing where 335 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 4: he takes a dump on on the love satire, Donald 336 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 4: tru satire, and yeah, Mike Johnson really is a student 337 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 4: of satires. It's the kind of thing you would find 338 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 4: in deuterotomy right where the Old Testament, that kind of 339 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 4: that kind of thing. The larger point is that everything 340 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 4: that's happening is happening again, going back to the Founders. 341 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 4: The Founders thought that the constant that the that the 342 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 4: Congress was the most powerful branch of government. Under Mike Johnson, 343 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 4: the Congress is gone. They're not just potted plants. They 344 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 4: are elsewhere. You look at that calendar, and he's basically 345 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 4: shut them down. They are taking a very very very 346 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 4: very long taxpayer funded vacation, and I think it's worth 347 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 4: noting that one of the reasons they're doing that is 348 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 4: because he so desperately does not want to have a 349 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 4: vote on the Epstein files, I mean tweet coming back. 350 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 4: Those Epstein files had become so important, are so sticky 351 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 4: that the Congress of the United States has essentially shut 352 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,720 Speaker 4: down for the duration and Mike Johnson again is he's 353 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 4: not even swearing in the new congressman. But it is remarkable. 354 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 4: I would urge people to look at that calendar because 355 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 4: I think I'm trying to remember what I wrote about this. 356 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 4: I mean, with what the numbers are. I think they've 357 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 4: been in session, like you know what, you know, sixteen 358 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 4: days over the last six I mean twenty days over 359 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,680 Speaker 4: the last sixteen weeks or or something like that. Something 360 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 4: absolutely something absurd like that. 361 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 1: And they're being paid, and they have staffs, and they 362 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: have the best healthcare in the world, which is kind 363 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: of amazing. So usually in a shutdown, what happens is 364 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: that you keep the branches in even if they're not 365 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: doing anything, because they're negotiating because it looks better. You 366 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: think Mike Johnson is making a mistake here. 367 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 4: I don't think Mike Johnson has any power. I mean yes, 368 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 4: I mean, yes, there's there's cascading mistakes, but I mean 369 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,120 Speaker 4: the fundamental thing is that, and this is the sign 370 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 4: of our times, is that he's got a very very 371 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 4: narrow house majority. He doesn't necess really have complete control, 372 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,880 Speaker 4: and his entire function is to do what Donald Trump 373 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 4: tells him to do. I mean, there was once a 374 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 4: time when the Speaker of the United States would if 375 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 4: he met with the president, he would meet as a 376 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 4: virtual coequal, at least in terms of like what's going 377 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 4: to happen next. That's not the you know, that's not 378 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 4: the situation right now. So Mike Johnson is Mike Johnson 379 00:20:23,440 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 4: is willing to do something the founders never imagined. Surrender 380 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 4: all of his clouts, surrender all of his power, go 381 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:37,439 Speaker 4: home in service of Donald Trump's, you know, demand that 382 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 4: he cover up for pedophiles and do whatever he wants 383 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 4: him to do. 384 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is just amazing. So one of the 385 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 1: things when I've talked to people about the shutdown in leadership, 386 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: obviously not on the Republican side, they say something to 387 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: the effect of, like, this shutdown lasts until Donald Trump 388 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: wants it to end. Because they don't see likely that 389 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: he's the way out of this, or they make some 390 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: kind of deal, but that if he wants to end 391 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: it tomorrow he can well. 392 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 4: Again, the Democrats have some agency, They have a little 393 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 4: bit of clout. I am a little concerned about what 394 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,119 Speaker 4: the Democrats' endgame is. Do they have an exit strategy? 395 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 4: If Donald Trump does call them up and say, Okay, 396 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 4: I'm going to give you the healthcare subsidies? 397 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:19,440 Speaker 2: Are we good? 398 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,120 Speaker 4: Are we just going to go back? Are you going 399 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 4: to sign on to a deal that you know that 400 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 4: they won't live up to. They've made it clear that 401 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 4: there are more decisions. How do you even sign a 402 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 4: piece of paper with them when they've announced that they're 403 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 4: going to ignore it, not to mention, like everything else 404 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 4: that's going on. How will the base react? What will 405 00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 4: the people have turned out for no Kings feel when 406 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 4: King j Jeffries and Chuck Schumer go to the White 407 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 4: House and say, Okay, we've decided to reopen Donald Trump's government. 408 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 4: I mean, this is this. 409 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: Is this is just a problem. Problem problem. 410 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I mean one you know, one scenario 411 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 4: that I certainly you know I am not looking forward to, 412 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 4: is that Republicans just simply basically say fuck it, We're 413 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 4: going to do away with the filibuster. We're going to 414 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 4: pass this with our own votes. We're going to open 415 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 4: the government, which has the advantage at least short term, 416 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 4: of sparing the Democrats voting to refund Donald Trump's state. 417 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: That could really happen. I do think though, there's a 418 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: weakness in the Senate, like you could see a world 419 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: where the Republicans peel off a few people, but you 420 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: have seen Republican appropriators saying this is not don't make 421 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: a deal with these people. 422 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,680 Speaker 4: Yeah. So I again, I think that part of the 423 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,720 Speaker 4: part of the weird, the weird dynamic of this shutdown 424 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,479 Speaker 4: is that frankly, nobody seems to be talking about it 425 00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,120 Speaker 4: that much. You know, given given given the new cycle 426 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 4: of who notice this, all the conversations that you have 427 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 4: with people, know there are twenty things to talk about 428 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 4: in any given day, and it's certainly possible you won't 429 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 4: you won't get even to the shutdown to lighteen or nineteen. 430 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 4: So the normal sort of pressure on the part needs 431 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 4: to settle, like oh my god, this cannot go on, 432 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 4: we can't do anything. Has not happened and we haven't 433 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:06,760 Speaker 4: had the kind of pain. 434 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 2: You know. 435 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 4: We obviously social Security checks will go out, the military 436 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,199 Speaker 4: is still being paid, so you know, until there is 437 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:19,439 Speaker 4: some irreversible pain, I don't know what the pressure is 438 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 4: going to be. So I mean I see people now 439 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 4: speculating that we might have a shutdown until Thanksgiving. I 440 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 4: don't think that that's out of the remal possibility. 441 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,359 Speaker 1: Charlie Sikes, thank you, thank you. 442 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 4: Thank you. 443 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: How the right lost its mind? Anna Bauer is a 444 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: senior editor at law Fair. Welcome to Fast Politics, Anna, 445 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on. 446 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,120 Speaker 5: No, I'm so happy to be here. I, like I said, 447 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 5: huge fan of your work and really grateful that you're 448 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 5: having you on. 449 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: So you write a lot about the courts, the law, 450 00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:00,439 Speaker 1: the fuckery happening, and the Trump administration, but this is 451 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: an amazing I want you first to talk about a 452 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:04,880 Speaker 1: text message you got. Yeah. 453 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,400 Speaker 5: So two saturdays ago, I was sitting in my apartment. 454 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 3: I was about to watch Netflix. 455 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 5: I'd spend the morning tweeting, touching up on the news, 456 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 5: particularly about the indictment that had just been handed down 457 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 5: against New York Attorney General Letitia James. A woman named 458 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 5: Lindsay Halligan is handling that case. She's also handling the 459 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 5: case against former FBI director James Comey. 460 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: She had been brought in too, because no one else 461 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: would sign off on this. And Lindsay Halligan, friend of Trumps, 462 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: had originally been a Parking lawyer. 463 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 5: No, well, no, so that's a different Trump lawyer. So 464 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 5: Lindsay Halligan was a Florida insurance lawyer who was brought 465 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 5: in to be one of Trump's personal lawyers around twenty 466 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 5: twenty two. That was when the criminal investigations were heating up. 467 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 5: She was one of the people who joined his criminal 468 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 5: defense team. 469 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 3: For some time. 470 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 5: At the time, I had just started cover during the 471 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 5: criminal cases against Trump. People might remember there was the 472 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 5: mar A Lago search, all these efforts by Trump's team 473 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 5: to kind of put a stop to the Justice Department's 474 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 5: investigation of retention of class by documents. And one of 475 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,800 Speaker 5: the people who worked on that case was Lindsay Halligan. 476 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,760 Speaker 5: And at the time I actually ran into her a 477 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,160 Speaker 5: few years ago while I was covering this case after 478 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 5: a hearing, she was eating dinner at the same restaurant 479 00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,160 Speaker 5: I was with another criminal defense attorney for Trump named 480 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 5: Jim Trusty. All of which is kind of context for 481 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,879 Speaker 5: what comes next, which is fast forward years later. I 482 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 5: have not spoken to Lindsay Halligan. She's embroiled in controversy 483 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 5: over the fact that she's been placed as the top 484 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 5: prosecutor by Trump in the Eastern District of Virginia to 485 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 5: prosecute his perceived political enemies. And I'm sitting there on 486 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 5: a Saturday in my apartment about to watch TV when 487 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,360 Speaker 5: I get a text message on Signal, which is a 488 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 5: messaging app that Mini j lest use to speak with sources, 489 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 5: and the person who's texting me claims to be Lindsay Halligan. 490 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 5: It's not every day, even as someone who covers legal issues, 491 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 5: it's not every day that I get a message from 492 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 5: a sitting United States attorney, much less the attorney who 493 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 5: is prosecuting the president's political enemies. I thought it was 494 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 5: a hoax, thought it was a troll of some sort, 495 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 5: or at most a phishing effort by someone you know. 496 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 5: And so I respond on the off chance that maybe 497 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,399 Speaker 5: it really is her, by asking her where we first 498 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 5: met and who she was with. And that is why 499 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 5: I brought up that I had met her a few 500 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 5: years earlier, because. 501 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:42,320 Speaker 1: And then what does she say. 502 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 5: She immediately correctly responds, she says, you know, I was 503 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,199 Speaker 5: with Trustee, and then she named the place where we 504 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 5: met in Florida after this hearing. And so I'm like, oh, 505 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 5: maybe this really is Lindsay Halligan, because I've never spoken 506 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 5: publicly about the fact that we ran into each other 507 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,159 Speaker 5: briefly a few years ago. So I start asking her 508 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 5: some questions as any journalist would, and it becomes clear 509 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 5: that what she's reaching out to me about is quite 510 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,959 Speaker 5: unusual in a number of respects. The first is that 511 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 5: she is reaching out to me about some tweets that 512 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 5: I'd sent earlier that day that didn't include my own 513 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 5: reporting about the Letitia James case, but instead some arized 514 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 5: a New York Times story that had been published about 515 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 5: the Letitia James case, and in that tweet, I summarized 516 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:39,080 Speaker 5: this report specifically about grand jury testimony in the case. 517 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:42,720 Speaker 5: Now this is really important because for people who aren't 518 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 5: familiar with, you know, how Justice Department. 519 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: Norms and federal law works. 520 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 5: Typically, federal prosecutors a don't talk about active investigations or 521 00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 5: ongoing prosecutions because there's just like so many things that 522 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 5: can go wrong if you do there's all kinds of 523 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 5: ways that defense counsel can pick apart what a prosecutor says. 524 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 5: It might result in pre trial publicity emotions, you know, 525 00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 5: where the defense is arguing, oh, they they've said things 526 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 5: that are prejudicial to my client. You know, we want 527 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,199 Speaker 5: to move the case to a different district. Like, you know, 528 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,600 Speaker 5: there's that kind of thing. But particularly with grand jury matters, 529 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 5: there's a really strict rule under the federal rules of 530 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,679 Speaker 5: criminal procedure that prohibits an attorney for the government from 531 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,920 Speaker 5: disclosing anything that occurred before the grand jury. And she's 532 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 5: reaching out to me about a story that involves grand 533 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 5: jury testimony in my summary of that testimony. So it 534 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 5: was very surprising to me in that context because typically 535 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 5: federal prosecutors like don't even go anywhere near that kind 536 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 5: of subject matter. 537 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: But in her defense, she has no idea what the 538 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:53,360 Speaker 1: folks she's doing. 539 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 5: Right, So, and this is one of the reasons why 540 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 5: you know, we found all of this in the end 541 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 5: to be quite us work, is that, like it clearly 542 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 5: underscores that this is a woman who does not seem 543 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 5: to understand the norms around prosecutions and the law and 544 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 5: does not have the relevant experience that you know, a 545 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 5: normal federal prosecutor in her position would. But what is 546 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 5: really strange to me, Molly, and you are as aware 547 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 5: of this kind of thing as I am, is the 548 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 5: kind of media engagement element of it all. Where like, 549 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 5: even though this woman has no prosecutorial experience, she is 550 00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 5: a person who has experienced engaging with the media, right 551 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 5: Like she has an undergraduate degree in broadcast journalism. She 552 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,840 Speaker 5: worked on Trump's criminal defense team for several years. That's 553 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 5: a very high profile position where she made many, you know, 554 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 5: television appearances on behalf of her client. She then worked 555 00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 5: in the White House. Everyone in Washington knows that when 556 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 5: you are a public official, you are talking to a reporter, 557 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 5: clearly a reporter you don't know, you don't have an 558 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:07,000 Speaker 5: ongoing kind of relationship with. At the outside of that conversation, 559 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 5: you talk about the basis on which you are speaking, 560 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 5: whether that is, you know, maybe you want to speak 561 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 5: off the record, and that means the reporter can't report 562 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 5: anything that you discuss. Instead, Lindsay Halligan didn't say anything 563 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 5: about the basis on which we're speaking, And the default 564 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 5: rule is that that means everything is on the record. 565 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 3: Again. 566 00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 5: I just can't underscore how weird all of this is, 567 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,080 Speaker 5: because she's a city United States attorney talking on the 568 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 5: record to a reporter about someone else's reporting that concerned 569 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,719 Speaker 5: grand jury testimony, and all of that put together is 570 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 5: just highly strange. And we spoke to a number of 571 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 5: former prosecutors, current and former journalists to see if in 572 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 5: their experience, they'd ever heard of anything like it, and 573 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 5: the universal answer was no, So. 574 00:30:56,040 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: Explain to us she talks to you, and then what happen? 575 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, So she talks to me, mostly complaining about my reporting, 576 00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 5: trying to suggest that I got something wrong in my 577 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 5: summary of this New York Times story. I try to 578 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 5: follow up multiple times to understand what was inaccurate. You know, 579 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 5: I think I asked four or five times, like what 580 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 5: specifically is wrong with my post? She never answers the question. Look, 581 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 5: I kind of didn't quite understand if she was serious 582 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 5: about opening a line of communication with me, because at 583 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 5: one point she offers to answer any questions that I 584 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 5: might have. So, you know, as any journalist would, I 585 00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 5: try to ask her questions about the case. It eventually 586 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 5: becomes clear she's not interested in actually engaging with me. 587 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 5: And then you know, she starts, she starts ghosting me. 588 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 3: And so as. 589 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 5: We're writing the story a few hours before we published, 590 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 5: after we confirm that it actually was her number by 591 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 5: obtaining her phone number which connected to her signal account, 592 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 5: we went to the Justice Department to seek comment, which 593 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 5: is the thing that you always do as a reporter. 594 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 5: So we gave them an opportunity to comment. All that 595 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 5: we said in the request for comment was we're publishing 596 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 5: this story today about this exchange. Here's a transcript of 597 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 5: the exchange. And then we listed a number of questions 598 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 5: that we had, you know, for example, does Lindsay Alligan 599 00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 5: deny that these are her genuine messages? 600 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 3: You know, things like that, And we. 601 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 5: Gave them a four fifteen pm deadline, and after days 602 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 5: of ghosting me, at four to ten, before we'd even 603 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:42,680 Speaker 5: heard back from the Justice Department, Lindsay Halligan reactivates our 604 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 5: signal chat and says to me, by the way, everything 605 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 5: I said was off the record. Again, if you know 606 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 5: how these things typically work, that is not how it works. 607 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:58,320 Speaker 5: You don't get to say retroactively, or to demand retroactively 608 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 5: that something you said as a public officials off the record, 609 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 5: and so I expressed that to her and said, that's 610 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 5: not how this works. I'm sorry, and she said, yes, 611 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 5: it is how it works off record, And again I 612 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 5: said I would have been happy to speak with you 613 00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 5: on that basis, which I definitely would have. 614 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,520 Speaker 1: You would have had to specified, yeah, but. 615 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 5: We had no agreement, and I still haven't agreed to 616 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 5: speak to you on that basis. And her response to 617 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,680 Speaker 5: that was, it was obvious it was off the record. 618 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 5: It was on signal, disappearing messages were set and you know, 619 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 5: to mee, yeah, ViBe's based agreement. 620 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that. 621 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 5: To me, this is again I want to underscore that, Like, 622 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:47,600 Speaker 5: there are occasions when if you have an ongoing kind 623 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 5: of source reporter relationship with someone, you might have an 624 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,240 Speaker 5: agreement with that person that everything is off the record 625 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:57,320 Speaker 5: unless we agree otherwise, right, like the inverse of the 626 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 5: normal kind of assumption. So there are contextual situations when 627 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 5: you know, you kind of implicitly understand that something might 628 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 5: have been off the record. 629 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 3: This is not one of those. She approached me. 630 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:14,000 Speaker 5: She's the most high profile prosecutor in the country quite literally, 631 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,480 Speaker 5: anything she says about these cases is going to be newsworthy, 632 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,719 Speaker 5: and she never once even suggested that we were off 633 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 5: the record. Meanwhile, the Justice Department, while you know, verifying 634 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 5: that these were indeed genuine messages, claimed that I was 635 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 5: threatening to lead the conversation. 636 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: That's their favorite, by the way. That's like, you know, 637 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,040 Speaker 1: it's like that Pentagon thing. We might just have to 638 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: arrest you to see what happened, you know. 639 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:45,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, And look, I think it was particularly ironic here 640 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 5: because Lindsey Halligan is messaging me about this ongoing prosecution, 641 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 5: and then a few days later reportedly fired some career 642 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:59,839 Speaker 5: prosecutors and released a statement around it, suggesting that they 643 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 5: have leaked information about an ongoing prosecution. She claimed that 644 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,680 Speaker 5: the Eastern District of Virginia, which she oversees as a 645 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 5: zero tolerance policy on unauthorized disclosure to the media, that's 646 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:17,719 Speaker 5: not true, right, And then Chad bill Martin with the 647 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 5: Justice Department had a long statement about we speak through 648 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 5: our filings, we don't comment on ongoing prosecutions. 649 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,720 Speaker 1: Well, then she should have texted you, right, Yeah. 650 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 5: So it's all very just kind of you know, I 651 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 5: think it shows her inexperience, but it also it shows that, like, look, 652 00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 5: there are so many ways that the defense can pick 653 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 5: apart this kind of communication and this kind of conduct. 654 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,920 Speaker 5: I don't know if they will. But Abby Lowell, who 655 00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,200 Speaker 5: is Letitia James's defense. 656 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 1: Counsel, pretty good lawyer. 657 00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, I mean, look, and he's handling all types 658 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 5: of these high profile cases. And I will not be 659 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 5: surprised if we see some about this interaction and these 660 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 5: comments that she's made find their way into some type 661 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,760 Speaker 5: of motion that Abby Lowell might file or already plans 662 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,719 Speaker 5: to file, you know, related to the case. And all 663 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 5: of it really just you know, is still kind of 664 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 5: baffling to me that you. 665 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 3: Would risk that in the position that she's in. 666 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: So what can you extrapolate from this? Like I want 667 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: you to put on your psychiatrist hat, like why do 668 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 1: you think she texted you? And what do you think 669 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: the game was there? And what do you think it 670 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:34,480 Speaker 1: speaks to. 671 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,760 Speaker 5: I've thought about this over and over and over again, 672 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,520 Speaker 5: and everything that I can come up with is pure speculation, 673 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,000 Speaker 5: because of course I. 674 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,239 Speaker 3: Still don't understand it. If I had to guess, I 675 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 3: would say. 676 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 5: Like she's under immense pressure and public scrutiny and has 677 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 5: been heavily criticized by so many for bringing this case 678 00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 5: that does not appear to be strong at all. You 679 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 5: can read the piece to understand why we don't have 680 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:07,160 Speaker 5: to go into that. But she's under this immense pressure, 681 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,040 Speaker 5: and I think maybe it's just she had a moment 682 00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,440 Speaker 5: of frustration where she's, you know, happens to be online 683 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 5: on a Saturday and see someone posting about something, and 684 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 5: maybe that's what it was. Frankly, I just don't understand it, 685 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:22,919 Speaker 5: and I don't know Mollie, Like, what do you make 686 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:24,840 Speaker 5: of it? I'd be curious to hear your thoughts. 687 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 1: I think she knows she's over her head, and I 688 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: think she's scared my gas. And again, this is all conjecture, 689 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,880 Speaker 1: because you know, I mean, you know her, I don't. 690 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:37,160 Speaker 1: But I think when people email other people or text 691 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,120 Speaker 1: them about what they post, they're usually trying to control 692 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: the narrative. I think she's trying, and I think it's 693 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,919 Speaker 1: scary because she knows there's no world in which she's 694 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 1: you know, will Trump protect her? I mean, did Trump 695 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:51,920 Speaker 1: protect Rudy Giuliani? No? 696 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean there's a lot of examples of people who, 697 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 5: you know, were Trump lawyers who things did not end 698 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 5: well for them. You know, I believe it was Hugo 699 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,799 Speaker 5: Lowell at The Guardian who said, you reported at one 700 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,719 Speaker 5: point that Lindsay Alligan told law school asso she had 701 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 5: at one time that she wanted to be the next 702 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 5: Hope Picks. Well, look, I covered Trump's criminal trial in 703 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:18,840 Speaker 5: New York, and here's how things ended for Hope Picks. 704 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,320 Speaker 5: She was on the witness stand as a witness against 705 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,319 Speaker 5: him in his criminal trial. She ended up breaking down 706 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,760 Speaker 5: crying about it. That's how they there not a great ending. 707 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,200 Speaker 1: Those still better than Rudy Giuliani. 708 00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:33,279 Speaker 3: Yeah right, I. 709 00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 5: Mean Rudy Giuliani. There's all kinds of bar discipline issues 710 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 5: and all that. I think overall that what this shows 711 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 5: is that there's a reason why you've put really experienced, 712 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 5: qualified people in these United States attorneys positions, because they 713 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,240 Speaker 5: are people who would know better. 714 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,040 Speaker 3: But Lindsay Halligan apparently did not. 715 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, so interesting. I mean, most importantly, you have now 716 00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: birthed the meme, which I think those who are interested 717 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,600 Speaker 1: in internet culture, you have now birthed the meme. By 718 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:09,080 Speaker 1: the way, Dash, Dash, everything I ever sent you is 719 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:13,720 Speaker 1: off record. Period. You're not a journalist, so it's weird 720 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 1: saying that, but just letting you. 721 00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:24,280 Speaker 5: Know, it's incredible, No more perfectly Jesse Cannon. 722 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 2: So Molly Laura Ingram, Fox News host. She talked on 723 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 2: and on about Hunter Biden's arisma, all this business collusion, 724 00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 2: how it's corrupt selling the office of the presidency. Who 725 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 2: do you think she's in business with? Now? 726 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 1: Is it Hunter Biden? 727 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 3: No? 728 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,640 Speaker 1: Is it Ashley Biden? No? 729 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:46,480 Speaker 2: Now they're too busy stealing her diary? 730 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,320 Speaker 1: Is it Don Junior? 731 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 2: It is Don Junior, a man whose eyes do very 732 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 2: strange things what he talks. 733 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 1: Wait, so you're telling me that Laura Ingram, a journalist, 734 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: is also doing a business deal with Don t from Junior. 735 00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: I am shocked, I tell you shocked. 736 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like at this point, it's like a satire. 737 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: You know. 738 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:11,040 Speaker 2: I heard somebody say that they're just dabbing on us 739 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 2: all the time, and that's kind of what this feels like. 740 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 2: If it's just like, yeah, you know, I remember what 741 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:17,920 Speaker 2: we told you, we cared about what. We don't care 742 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:19,359 Speaker 2: about the rules. We really don't. 743 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,800 Speaker 1: No, they really don't care about their rules. The rules 744 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,440 Speaker 1: are for dems, yeah and losers. 745 00:40:26,719 --> 00:40:29,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. It reminds me of that tweet that says democrats 746 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:33,719 Speaker 2: often treat politics like watching a dog dunk a basketball, 747 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,359 Speaker 2: and say a dog can't dunk a basketball, and the 748 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 2: dog just keeps dunking the basketball. 749 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it turns out dogs can, in fact dunk. 750 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:44,160 Speaker 2: Air Bud is real. 751 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:51,759 Speaker 1: There's no special dogs can dunk. That's it for this 752 00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:58,279 Speaker 1: episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday 753 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,960 Speaker 1: and Saturday the best minds and politics make sense of 754 00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 1: all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast, please send 755 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:11,160 Speaker 1: it to a friend and keep the conversation going. Thanks 756 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:11,880 Speaker 1: for listening.