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Speaker 1: This episode of the Chuck Podcast is brought to you

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Speaker 1: by Incognate. You know, one of the things we talk

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Speaker 1: I'm constantly working on this for years myself, and here's

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Speaker 1: an opportunity for you to take matters into your own

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Speaker 1: hands as well. Hello there, Happy Monday, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: another episode of the Chuck Podcast. So I'll be honest

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Speaker 1: with you, I'm coming on literally, I'm taping right now,

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Speaker 1: probably about thirty minutes after that incredible finish of Yukon

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Speaker 1: over Duke, just sort of out of nowhere. Just an

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Speaker 1: incredible back to back years for Duke with these choke jobs,

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Speaker 1: blowing the double digit lead against Houston in the final

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Speaker 1: four last year, blowing this nineteen point lead against u

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Speaker 1: Khon and the Elite eight, somebody's going to start getting

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Speaker 1: a reputation. But here's what I would say to mister Shier,

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Speaker 1: Coach Duke, go look at coach K's record in Elite

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Speaker 1: eights and final fours in the eighties, because they was

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Speaker 1: in the eighties, he was making all sorts of progress,

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Speaker 1: but he didn't break through the wall. Right, It wasn't

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Speaker 1: until the nineties that he broke through. And then of

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Speaker 1: course once he broke through, then it seemed like when

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Speaker 1: he'd get there, he'd be a winner. There's something about

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Speaker 1: Yukon though, right they are. They are a tough dragon

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Speaker 1: to slay, whether they're loaded with talent, whether they're missing

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Speaker 1: a few pieces that they seem off, you're not one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent sure. Well, one thing you know about these

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Speaker 1: Danny Hurley coach teams is they don't quit. But anyway,

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Speaker 1: what I mean, let's just be honest, that's why we

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Speaker 1: love this tournament. Right, you got to have one game,

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Speaker 1: these final these Ellege eight games were all kind of blowout.

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Speaker 1: Ye I mean, Iowa Illinois before this, before we got this,

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Speaker 1: and this one looked like it was going to be

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Speaker 1: the big blowout. And before we got this like Illinois,

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Speaker 1: Iowa was about the best we got and that was

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Speaker 1: a game with about five minutes left and then Illinois

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Speaker 1: started pulling away. But this means I only got two

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Speaker 1: of the final four. Correct. I thought I was about

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Speaker 1: to have three of the final four. I went way

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Speaker 1: out on a limb and took three number one seeds

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Speaker 1: in my final four Duke Michigan in Arizona, so I

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Speaker 1: whipped on that had Houston, had Houston winning the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: So that was out. But I will tell you this,

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Speaker 1: I've met coach Underwood at Illinois, spent a little time

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Speaker 1: with him, spend a little time with that program. It is.

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Speaker 1: It is one of the schools that I've had some

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Speaker 1: family attend. So of the four schools Michigan, Arizona, Yukon,

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Speaker 1: and Illinois, my large extended family has the closest ties

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Speaker 1: to the Allian Eye. So we will be despite the

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Speaker 1: fact that they have those horrible, that horrible pairing of

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Speaker 1: colors blue and orange, which you know if you run

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Speaker 1: the state of Florida, it's really one of the tougher

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Speaker 1: color matches to deal with, right that blue and orange

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Speaker 1: is just a terrible color match. And again, people in

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Speaker 1: the state of Florida. Understand that, especially blinding when you

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Speaker 1: have to go through Gainesville. It's terrible. But despite Illinois

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Speaker 1: sharing similar similar colors, I guess you could argue it's

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Speaker 1: a darker orange and a slightly darker blue. The toodcast

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Speaker 1: will be slightly pulling for the for Illinois and they're

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Speaker 1: going to be technically the underdogs, right They're the Cinderella

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Speaker 1: story of the three seeds. So we did get the

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Speaker 1: chalky end of the tournament as we thought, but wow,

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Speaker 1: what a finish there. Before I get to my more

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Speaker 1: serious stuff here, I do want to gloat. I had

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Speaker 1: one wish for the start of the baseball season for

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Speaker 1: my beloved Washington Nationals. I really wanted to win Game

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Speaker 1: one so I could guarantee that they would have a

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Speaker 1: winning record at some point this season. And what do

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Speaker 1: you know, they're two in one at the end of

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Speaker 1: the first weekend. They've won their first series against a

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Speaker 1: team that's supposed to be a contender for the playoffs.

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Speaker 1: I'll take it. And you know, apparently the most unhittable

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Speaker 1: player in baseball's Joey Weimer. And I'm not gonna tell

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Speaker 1: you I'd never heard of them. But I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to pretend to tell you I knew everything about this

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Speaker 1: guy when the Nats signed him in January off of

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Speaker 1: a waiver wires, so we'll take it. The Nats are

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Speaker 1: two and one. It feels good. If I were a

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Speaker 1: Cubs fan, I'm a little concerned to drop two of

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Speaker 1: three at home. The good news is they're arguably their

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Speaker 1: best young pitcher, Kate Horton pitched their best game on Saturday.

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Speaker 1: But you're going to be a little bit concerned. But hey,

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Speaker 1: it's baseball. It's early in the year. We know that.

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Speaker 1: So I'm just happy the Nats have a winning record

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Speaker 1: now they have put it this way. They've gone the

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Speaker 1: season is four days old and they have yet to

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Speaker 1: have a losing record. They were tied for first after

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Speaker 1: the game on Thursday, So look, these are the tiny,

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Speaker 1: tiniest little baby steps. We Nats fans. It's the only

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Speaker 1: thing we have to cling to. So we have that.

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Speaker 1: And I think I teased that I was this was

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Speaker 1: a big fantasy baseball draft weekend for me. I Am

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Speaker 1: not going to be that annoying guy and tell you

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Speaker 1: everything about my fantasy baseball team, because you know who

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Speaker 1: cares about my fantasy baseball team, not you, guys. I'm

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Speaker 1: aware of that, and I'm not interested in having you

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Speaker 1: fast forward all the way through other than I one

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Speaker 1: was an auction and one was a snake draft. Of

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Speaker 1: any of you care that much about it, You're welcome

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Speaker 1: to throw some questions at the back and maybe at

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Speaker 1: the end of some podcast. I'm happy to talk about it,

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Speaker 1: but it is. Here's what I always find out for

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Speaker 1: the fantasy draft. Every year I find out, Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I didn't do my homework. I didn't do enough. I

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Speaker 1: knew enough. Guy, I was running out of pitchers, especially

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Speaker 1: when you're in one league that has twenty four teams

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Speaker 1: and eighteen roster spots. Let me repeat twenty four teams

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Speaker 1: eighteen roster spots. All right, enough of that side of

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Speaker 1: my sports ledger that front, let me give you a

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Speaker 1: rundown of what to expect for today's episode. My guest

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Speaker 1: today is a candidate for California governor, Matt Mahon. He

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Speaker 1: is the mayor of San Jose. He is probably going

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Speaker 1: to be one of the best funded candidates not named

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Speaker 1: Tom Steyer in this He is somebody that's running a

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Speaker 1: bit towards the center left lane and you'll hear in

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Speaker 1: the in the conversation, Uh, he definitely is trying to

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Speaker 1: run against the Democratic Party a little bit. I think

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Speaker 1: he thinks that the California legislature has pulled Gavin Newsom.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting he didn't have many critical words for Gavin Newsom.

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Speaker 1: He seemed to think that the legislature tied his hands

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Speaker 1: quite a bit, which I thought was an interesting way

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Speaker 1: to navigate this. And I think it's it's hard you

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Speaker 1: have an elector, and I think it's very and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna have a little bit more to say right before

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Speaker 1: the right before the interview starts with with the with

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Speaker 1: the mayor of San Jose. But I do think, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a tricky it's a tricky environment. This is sixteen

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Speaker 1: straight years of Democratic governors that California has the longest

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Speaker 1: streak they had in over one hundred years one party.

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Speaker 1: And it's definitely you could feel there is there is

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Speaker 1: certainly a desire for change, uh of some sort. Well,

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Speaker 1: what does change look like in a one party state

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Speaker 1: like California? And I think that all of the Democratic

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Speaker 1: candidates are struggling with that. It's It is tough when

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Speaker 1: you're you're sort of following two gigantic personalities in California politics,

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Speaker 1: two terms of Jerry Brown, then two terms of Cavin Newsom. Shoot,

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Speaker 1: before Jerry Brown, you had basically the sort of a

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Speaker 1: term and a half of Arnold Schwarzenegger. Right, these are giant,

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Speaker 1: big personalities, and it's a whole bunch of people with

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Speaker 1: a name I d under twenty five percent in the

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Speaker 1: state trying to replace them. Right, So I think everybody

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Speaker 1: looks small in comparison to the to to I think

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Speaker 1: to both Gavin Newsom and of course the current living

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Speaker 1: former governors of California as well. So I think that

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Speaker 1: probably only adds to the feel that this is the

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Speaker 1: you know, the incredible shrinking field of candidates, although that's

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Speaker 1: part of the problem. The field's not shrinking, even if

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Speaker 1: the candidates are not necessarily standing tall at the moment.

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Speaker 1: So we have that conversation, and again you're going to

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Speaker 1: hear some interesting, interesting things about sort of where should

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Speaker 1: the Democrats go in California, Where should the wealth tax go?

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Speaker 1: Where should all those issues that are dividing the Democratic Party.

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Speaker 1: We will have my Toddcast time machine and we are

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Speaker 1: going back to the year nineteen forty nine, and let's

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Speaker 1: just say it's the start of an organization that is

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Speaker 1: still very much in the news today. That will be

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Speaker 1: my big hint for you. But I want to begin

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Speaker 1: essentially with what look we ended the week. I think

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Speaker 1: when I last talked with you, it was clear and

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Speaker 1: I said, well, they're going to get something done with DHS.

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Speaker 1: Well it was not done the way I thought it

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Speaker 1: was going to get done. But we have tsa workers

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Speaker 1: being paid president doing an executive order sort of finding

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Speaker 1: other ways to meet some payrolls temporarily. We had the

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Speaker 1: Senate pass a compromise and then the House Republicans completely rejected,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's a you know, this is a

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Speaker 1: piece of where I want to go with the larger

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Speaker 1: point I want to make with today's episode. It really

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Speaker 1: is about answering our question. I get a lot, and

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Speaker 1: I want to give you a fuller answer to when

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Speaker 1: I get this question a lot, which is you know, when,

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Speaker 1: when when is this going to end? And when I when?

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Speaker 1: When I say this this sort of this moment of

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Speaker 1: polarization where everything is a knockdown, drag out fight. Everything

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Speaker 1: has to be a battle you know, of the ages

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Speaker 1: just to you know, decide how or how's TSA going

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Speaker 1: to get funded? Right and and everything. And then you

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Speaker 1: have these battles inside the party between half the party

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Speaker 1: that wants to govern and half the party that wants

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Speaker 1: to fight. And you're starting to see this almost look

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Speaker 1: like mirror images of each other. And in each side,

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Speaker 1: right you had you had those that were getting exhausted

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Speaker 1: and the Democratic side feeling as if this shutdown they

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Speaker 1: had got and everything they could get out of it,

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Speaker 1: it was time to find a way to land the plane.

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Speaker 1: Pun intended on that one. But then you saw a

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Speaker 1: sort of similarity on the right right where you saw

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Speaker 1: plenty of center Republicans going, yeah, let's land the plane.

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Speaker 1: Let's throw them a bone on this, this and this,

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Speaker 1: and then the President not enthusiastic about it, and certainly

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Speaker 1: Speaker Johnson and House Republicans going, you know what, we're

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Speaker 1: not playing ball with that. So you start to see

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Speaker 1: you've got and in many cases, right the House is

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Speaker 1: home of the hardliners, the hardliners on the left these days,

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Speaker 1: hardliners on the right, and the Senate is home of

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Speaker 1: the compromisers. If I guess the founders would be happy

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Speaker 1: to see that. But even within the Senate, the compromisers

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Speaker 1: are barely able to pull off compromises, and I'm not

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Speaker 1: sure how enthusiastic they all are. So it gets it

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Speaker 1: to this larger question than I want to come back to.

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Speaker 1: And it's the one I think that matters more right

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Speaker 1: now than any individual election result, or any poll, or

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Speaker 1: any piece of legislation. And it's simply this is the

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Speaker 1: country ready to move on? Right, It's not just turning

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Speaker 1: the page on Trump specifically. This is not just about

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Speaker 1: Trump or even trump Ism, right, But it's not about

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Speaker 1: ready to move on from one politician or a party.

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Speaker 1: But are we ready to move on from this right,

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Speaker 1: this era of permanent, polarized warfare politics that has defined

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Speaker 1: arguably American life for the better part of most of

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Speaker 1: the century, right, two decades now. I mean, in some

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Speaker 1: ways it's fitting that this deck that this century began

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Speaker 1: with the two thousand election, where we took the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court to decide when to stop the count. Right, we're

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Speaker 1: living in an era where the other side isn't just wrong,

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Speaker 1: they're it's existential, where every election is the most important

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Speaker 1: of our lifetime. Right. I've never covered election that wasn't

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Speaker 1: the most important in my lifetime. Apparently compromise is not

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Speaker 1: only not a virtue right now now, it can be

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Speaker 1: seen as a character flaw. So let's go back to

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Speaker 1: the question are we ready to move on from this?

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Speaker 1: Because I've been doing this long enough to know that

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Speaker 1: ready is an automatic. Societies don't heal on a schedule.

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Speaker 1: They heal and the cost of staying sick finally exceeds

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Speaker 1: the cost of the cure. And let's just say, I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure we're there yet. You know that doesn't You know?

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Speaker 1: That doesn't mean we may not have I And what

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Speaker 1: I mean is I think we're a few more elections

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Speaker 1: away from the electorate demanding resolution to this, and I

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Speaker 1: don't think the electorate is just there. So here's the

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Speaker 1: case I want to make today, and I'm going to

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Speaker 1: use some history to do it, because I think the

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Speaker 1: closest parallel to what we're living through is a period

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Speaker 1: most Americans know mostly as a blur. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's the most understudied period in American history and one

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Speaker 1: that all of us should spend a little bit more

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Speaker 1: time on. And I think it can teach us a

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Speaker 1: lot about the moment we're in right now, and it's

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Speaker 1: the twenty eight years between two term president Andrew Jackson

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Speaker 1: and twice elected he obviously didn't serve his full second term,

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Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln. We had seven presidents, actually we had eight

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Speaker 1: presidents because one took over via death, but seven president

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Speaker 1: elected presidents. Okay, in twenty eight years. It's just remarkable

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Speaker 1: back and forth, if you will, seven men who each

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Speaker 1: saw the divide coming, each reached for a tool to

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Speaker 1: manage it, and each watched that tool break in their hands. Right,

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Speaker 1: we haven't gone through seven of these presidencies yet, right,

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Speaker 1: we got Push Obama Trump, Biden Trump. We're at five.

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Speaker 1: One could argue we've probably got a couple more to go,

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Speaker 1: and that's my thesis here, but let me keep it going.

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Speaker 1: So let's go back and let me walk you through

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Speaker 1: that period of history here a little bit. By the

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Speaker 1: time Andrew Jackson left office in eighteen thirty seven, the

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Speaker 1: American political system was already cracking along a fault line

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Speaker 1: that everyone could feel and almost nobody wanted to name directly.

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Speaker 1: Slavery was the wound, right, we know, essentially it's our

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Speaker 1: original sin of this country. But westward expansion was the pressure,

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Speaker 1: and the political class on both sides of this argument

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Speaker 1: had developed an almost institutional allergy to have an honest

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Speaker 1: reckoning with either one. So what followed was twenty eight

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Speaker 1: years of presidents trying everything except the thing that needed

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Speaker 1: to be done. Let's start with Martin van Buren. He

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Speaker 1: was Jackson's hand picked successor, the original political operator, the

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Speaker 1: man who basically invented the modern party machine, and his

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Speaker 1: theory the case was, don't touch it, slavery is a

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Speaker 1: matter for the states, keep the coalition together, refusing to

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Speaker 1: let the coalition fight, keep your head down, keep your

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Speaker 1: mouth shut, and hold the line. And then the Panic

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Speaker 1: of eighteen thirty seven hit. It was the worst economic

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Speaker 1: collapse the country had seen up until that point, and

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Speaker 1: Van Buren discovered that avoidance isn't a strategy. It's just

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Speaker 1: a slower form of collapse. When you refuse to lead

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Speaker 1: on the defining issue of your era, you don't protect

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Speaker 1: yourself from it. You just guarantee that when it catches

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Speaker 1: up to you, you're already weakened. The next president elected

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Speaker 1: was William Henry Harrison, quickly succeeded by John Tyler Right.

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Speaker 1: Harrison is the one who died thirty one days after

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Speaker 1: taking office, shortest presidency in American history. So John Tyler

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Speaker 1: ended up president, and he was a Virginia States rights man.

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Speaker 1: He was placed on this Whig ticket purely for geographical balance.

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Speaker 1: They never actually wanted him to serve as president. The theory,

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Speaker 1: of course, was that you could paper over the fundamental

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Speaker 1: divide in the country with a clever lineup card right,

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Speaker 1: put a Northerner at the top and a Southerner under,

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Speaker 1: call it a coalition, and hope nobody looks too closely. Well. Tyler,

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Speaker 1: when he became president after thirty one days, he vetoed

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Speaker 1: virtually everything that the Whig control Congress sent him. He

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Speaker 1: got expelled from his own party. He spent four years

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Speaker 1: proving that ticket balancing is not coalition building. It's just

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Speaker 1: a delayed reckoning. The divide didn't go away because you

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Speaker 1: dressed it up. It just simply waited. Next came James Polk.

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Speaker 1: Now it's an underrated presidency. Might be the best one

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Speaker 1: term presidency we've ever had, George H. W. Bush, and

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Speaker 1: we would like a little say in that. But in

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Speaker 1: a sense that Pope actually did some things. He was decisive,

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Speaker 1: he was disciplined, and he had a theory of how

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Speaker 1: to avoid the issue expansion. If we just got more land,

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Speaker 1: there's enough for everybody, and then we don't have to

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Speaker 1: fight about it. The promise of the West would ease

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Speaker 1: the tension, he thought, between the North and the South,

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Speaker 1: because there'd be room to grow in every direction. The

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Speaker 1: Mexican American War gave in California, and the Southwest was

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Speaker 1: reopen the slavery question with a ferocity that nobody could contain,

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Speaker 1: because now there was new territory, and the question of

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Speaker 1: where slavery would expand became the question that consumed everything.

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Speaker 1: The Wilmot Proviso, the attempt at ban slavery in any

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Speaker 1: territory acquired by Mexico acquired from Mexico, was born in

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Speaker 1: his presidency and nearly tore his own party apart. So

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Speaker 1: expansion did not relieve the pressure. It multiplied it, sometimes

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Speaker 1: solving a symptom to make the disease worse. This episode

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Speaker 1: am a customer. Zachary Taylor he was a Southern slave owner.

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Speaker 1: He owned more than one hundred enslaved people who nonetheless

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Speaker 1: told the South to back off on secession threats over

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Speaker 1: California statehood. And he was willing to call their bluff

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Speaker 1: and he said, essentially, if you want to leave, try it,

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Speaker 1: and he didn't think they would, and he might have

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Speaker 1: been right, but we never found out. He died in office,

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Speaker 1: supposedly eating poisoned cherries, but most people assume it was

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Speaker 1: a cute gastrio enteritis. But there've always been a little bit.

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Speaker 1: If you want, you want to talk about a few

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theories that are still unresolved about that death, you

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Speaker 1: can go down some rabbit holes, because his death was

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Speaker 1: a little bit murky, and it was happening an incredibly

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Speaker 1: important time. He was a Southerner pushing back on the South,

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Speaker 1: so we don't know if his bluff was if the

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Speaker 1: bluff was real that he was willing to do. History

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Speaker 1: will never know if his toughness was actually the path forward,

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Speaker 1: if he was the Nixon to China guy, or if

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Speaker 1: it was going to just lead to another dead end.

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Speaker 1: He was willing to force the crisis unlike previous presidents.

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Speaker 1: Whether forcing it would have resolved in that moment, we're

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Speaker 1: never know. But he was gone before the answer arrived.

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Speaker 1: Millard Fillmore takes over, and he inherits Taylor's standoff, and

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Speaker 1: he resolved it, or so he thought he did. With

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Speaker 1: the compromise of eighteen fifty package deal. California comes in

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Speaker 1: as a free state. Slave trade, though not slavery itself

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Speaker 1: ends in Washington, DC, and in return, the South gets

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Speaker 1: the Fugitive Slave Act, a federal law requiring northern states

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Speaker 1: to actively return escaped in slave people to their owners,

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Speaker 1: so called owners. Fillmore signed it genuinely believing he had

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Speaker 1: saved the Republic. He called it the final Settlement of

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Speaker 1: the slave every question the final settlement, basically agreeing that

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Speaker 1: half the country would have slaves and half would find

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Speaker 1: it abhorrent, but anyway, that's what he thought. Obviously, he

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Speaker 1: was catastrophically wrong. What the Futitive Slave Act actually did

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Speaker 1: was make the North personally complicit in slavery's enforcement for

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Speaker 1: the first time. Ordinary northern nurse people in Ohio and

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania and Massachusetts who never thought much about slavery one

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Speaker 1: way or another, were being deputized to participate in it,

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Speaker 1: and it galvanized the abolitionist movement like nothing before it.

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Speaker 1: Harriet Beecher Stowe wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin in direct response

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Speaker 1: to this, became the best selling novel of the nineteenth century.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes the compromises the crisis. Sometimes the thing you do

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Speaker 1: to lower the temperature is the thing that lights the fire.

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Speaker 1: Franklin Pierce came in. The Democrats had a theory for

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Speaker 1: his presidency. Nominate a northern man. He was from New

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Speaker 1: Hampshire with southern sympathies what they called a dough face,

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Speaker 1: and you split the difference, you get a candidate who

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Speaker 1: can win in the North without alienating the South. Pierce

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Speaker 1: was from New Hampshire, charming, he was handsome, and he

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Speaker 1: was completely spineless in the question that mattered the most.

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Speaker 1: He signed the Kansas Nebraska Act, which repeated the Missouri Compromise.

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Speaker 1: Repealed the Missouri Compromise, an agreement that had for three

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Speaker 1: decades kept slavery out of the northern territories, and he

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Speaker 1: replaced it with popular sovereignty, i e. Let the settlers

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Speaker 1: decide the slavery question. Sounds democratic, but what it actually

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Speaker 1: produced was a race between pro slavery and anti slavery

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Speaker 1: settlers to flood into Kansas and determine its future by force.

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Speaker 1: The result was bleeding Kansas, a preview of the Civil War.

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Speaker 1: Years before the actual Civil War. Towns burned, people died.

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Speaker 1: The federal government just stood by that strategy. The dough

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Speaker 1: face strategy did not bridge the divide, it detonated it. Finally,

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Speaker 1: there was James Muckinnon, a former Secretary of State right

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Speaker 1: or a former ambassador of Britain, the most experienced man

428
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 1: to assume the presidency and a generation, and he was

429
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 1: catastrophically wrong about almost everything. He is regularly seen as

430
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 1: the guy who's last on any list of presidents, simply

431
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 1: because if you lose, and if you lose the Union,

432
00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: you're probably dead last. Now, if you can't in privately

433
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: lobby the Supreme Court justices on the dred Scott case,

434
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: push them to issue a sweeping ruling that would, he believed,

435
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: finally settle the slavery question legally well. The court obliged

436
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: no black person could ever be a US citizen. The

437
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 1: court claimed Congress had no authority to band slavery anywhere

438
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: you can't and celebrated this decision. He thought it was over. Instead,

439
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 1: it finished off what was left of his of the

440
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: political center. The Republican Party, young anti slavery organized around

441
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: opposition to exactly this. Won the next election, guy named

442
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln, first time a third already won the presidency,

443
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,919
Speaker 1: and when Southern states began to secede, Buchanan concluded he

444
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: had no constitutional authority to stop them. He was in

445
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 1: a narrow technical sense correct, but he was morally disastrous.

446
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:15,679
Speaker 1: He handed Abraham Lincoln the country already on fire, with

447
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,360
Speaker 1: the kindling stacked by every president who came before him.

448
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: But here's the through line, and I think this is

449
00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: what should echo today and whyatt continues to ring in

450
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: my ear, and why it's a place I go. Every

451
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: one of these men saw the divide. They weren't oblivious,

452
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,679
Speaker 1: just like we've seen here. Everybody knows the divide that

453
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 1: we live in at the moment. All of these elected

454
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,920
Speaker 1: senators understand this is a shit show and it's got

455
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: to stop, right just like those men did. They wrote

456
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: about it, they worried about it, they tried to manage it,

457
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: and each one reached for a tool avoidance, ticket balancing, expansion, compromise,

458
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: legal resolution, geographic splitting of the difference, and every tool

459
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: broke in their hands. And it was a simple reason

460
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 1: the country wasn't ready. The cost of resolution, which turned

461
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: out to be a war that killed seven hundred thousand Americans,

462
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: was still in the political calculus of each of those moments,

463
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: higher than the cost of one more delay, one more patch,

464
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 1: one more clever maneuver. It took the thing nobody wanted

465
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: before the country finally moved through it. So are we

466
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 1: there yet? No, I'm not advocating civil war here, guys. Okay,

467
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,439
Speaker 1: So I do want to be careful there, But I

468
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: want to show you what this week past weekend looked like,

469
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: because I think it does tell you almost everything you

470
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 1: need to know about where we are in the moment.

471
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: Big split screen, right, two countries, same weekend on one side,

472
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: did the third round of the note King's rallies. Organizers

473
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 1: say eight million people turned turned out nationally might be

474
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: the largest ever. Last time. They estimated seven million turned

475
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: out the last No Kings March a couple months ago.

476
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: They are grassroots organized, they've got real professional money behind it.

477
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 1: Let's not pretend that this is this is totally organic,

478
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: but it's progressive driven demonstrations against the Trump agenda. And

479
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 1: this weekend, the two animating issues were immigration enforcement in

480
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: the Iran war now officially a month in month old.

481
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,159
Speaker 1: The biggest hub was Minnesota. That's where Bruce Springsteen performed

482
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,239
Speaker 1: at Saint Paul months after the two American citizens were

483
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: killed by Ice agents. And these rallies reached beyond the

484
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: expected cities. We saw places like Shelbyville, Kentucky, Midland, Texas

485
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: hold some of these No Kings rallies. It wasn't just

486
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:43,640
Speaker 1: the big cities, the big blue cities, if you will.

487
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,360
Speaker 1: That isn't nothing. There's no doubt the opposition to Trump

488
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: is growing, and the opposition to Trump is in some

489
00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: ways very focused and very mission driven here and I

490
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: think we're probably going to see the result of that

491
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: in the midterms. Now, on the other side, he had

492
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: another gathering of partisans seapack down in Texas. They were

493
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 1: closing out a four day conference in grape buying, Texas.

494
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: The marquis speaker wasn't a sitting American official. It was

495
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,560
Speaker 1: Iran's exiled crown Prince Riza Paul Lavi, the oldest son

496
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 1: of the late of the last Shaw of Iran, drew

497
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: standing room only crowd, positioning himself as Iran's future leader,

498
00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: his supporters waving Iranian flags through the convention hall. Steve

499
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: Bannon was there. RFK Junior was there. Former Border Patrol

500
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: Commander Greg Rovino was there. He ran the Minnesota enforcement

501
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 1: surge and of course was forced out after the disasters

502
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 1: that he oversaw. And here's what I want you to

503
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: notice about both of these gatherings, while they were each

504
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 1: internally coherent and they were also mutually incomprehensible to the

505
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: other side, probably the tell that we're in democratic energy.

506
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: It's very real. Trump's approval ratings are second term lows.

507
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,600
Speaker 1: This is all time lows for him thirty six percent,

508
00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: and rip Borders IPSOS thirty eight percent, AP forty one percent.

509
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: In Fox News, I probably, if you want to know

510
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: the truth, I probably feel the best about the Fox

511
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: News poll, meaning I just you know, they have to

512
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 1: bipartisan team that does it. They always have registered voters.

513
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: They just have a you know, IPSOS and AP NORC

514
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: just their samples. I don't think are as strong is

515
00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 1: what the Fox News folks do. Each poll shows tanking numbers,

516
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 1: though I mean there's some consistency to all these poles

517
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: tanking numbers on the economy and the Iran war. There's

518
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: genuine grassroots mobilization and for the first time in a while,

519
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: we're seeing younger voters fired up about voting in the midterms.

520
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 1: There is no doubt there is a movement to throw

521
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:55,560
Speaker 1: out the party in power. But just remember and Democrats.

522
00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: I've been repeating this before, and I think I understand

523
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:04,239
Speaker 1: the feeling of glossing over this in the moment. Just

524
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: because there's lower approval for Trump doesn't mean that there's

525
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: automatically now higher trust with the Democrats. In fact, we've

526
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 1: seen plenty of polling indicating, my goodness, I told you

527
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 1: about that poll last week where the Democrats have the

528
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: worst party brand, worse than the Republicans and worse than

529
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: Mega by a point or two, even though they're winning

530
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:27,480
Speaker 1: right there is not It is once again, we know

531
00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: what we don't want, and I want to go back

532
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: to those That's what we knew in the twenty eight

533
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: years in between Jackson and Lincoln. We knew what we

534
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: didn't want. That's why we kept kicking out those presidents.

535
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: We kept getting trying a new president. We kept looking

536
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: for a different answer. We couldn't figure out. We knew

537
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: what we didn't want. We didn't want a civil war,

538
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: but we didn't find any way around it. And I

539
00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 1: fear we don't have the leaders to meet the moment

540
00:31:55,720 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 1: we need right now to avoid this getting worse. And

541
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,920
Speaker 1: that's what's the head scratcher here in the moment that

542
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: we're living in. So people see the problem, but they're

543
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: not ready. We're not ready for a full resolution to

544
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: this yet. So on the Republican side, SEAPEC was a

545
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 1: snapshot of something a bit more complicated than it appears.

546
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: And yes there were USA chants, Yes there were some enthusiasm,

547
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 1: but attendees were whispering on the sidelines that this year's

548
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: gathering felt smaller, felt more subdued than recent ones because

549
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: this is a divided party and underneath the service there

550
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: were real fractures, particularly among young men, over the Iran

551
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: War and the still unresolved Jeffrey Epstein questions. One thirty

552
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: year old attendee said it this way. A lot of

553
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: the young generation feels that there's not a lot of

554
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 1: hope for the economy. This economy is a mess, and

555
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: it is all Donald Trump's economy, right from the tariffs

556
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: to this war, to the spike and gas prices. I mean,

557
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 1: this is turning into his eye. And I think I

558
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: said this before. I think he is going to I

559
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: think he's probably at the point of no return. You

560
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: get to a point in a second term where you

561
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: don't really get a second shot at recovering barring some

562
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,280
Speaker 1: outside event that allows you to sort of be a

563
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:14,120
Speaker 1: hero in the moment. And it's just hard to envision some.

564
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 2: Event like that.

565
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: And then there's also the fact that they and this

566
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: is something that's true on both sides, both parties. Right now,

567
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 1: there is a divide about how to tackle this moment,

568
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: right you know in Sepack we saw it in the

569
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:34,320
Speaker 1: results of the straw Phole jd Vance at fifty three

570
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: percent of who they wanted to see. In twenty twenty eight,

571
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: Mark Ruby was at thirty five percent. So the MAGA

572
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,959
Speaker 1: base is not united yet on what kind of success

573
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: door they want to say. And we haven't even had

574
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: the midterms yet. What happens if the midterms are a

575
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: disaster for the right. So it's a party that hasn't

576
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:56,720
Speaker 1: finished its own internal reckoning, right, you know, Trump's in

577
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: charge of this coalition, but as Trump truly change the

578
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: party for good, you still feel the tension inside this party, right,

579
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: They're still not sure where they're going to go post Trump. Meanwhile,

580
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 1: back in Washington, the government shutdown continued. We're not a

581
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 1: record length, you know, with the House just sort of

582
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: dumping on the Senate plan. Obviously there's going to be

583
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,439
Speaker 1: at least some resolution to temporary pay with this weird

584
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: executive order, but it only can last for a small

585
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 1: period of time. But here we are. Senate won't pass

586
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: the House's plan, The House won't pass the Senate's plan.

587
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: Nobody has the votes, and then nobody has the will

588
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 1: and nobody has the face saving exit. It really is

589
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: James Buchanan level institutional paralysis that we're in right now.

590
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: Technically everyone has a constitutional argument and practically nothing is working.

591
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,280
Speaker 1: So are we ready to move on. Are we ready

592
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,279
Speaker 1: to get out of this moment? My honest answer, and

593
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,480
Speaker 1: I say this notw with despair, but with it, but

594
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 1: frankly with the historian's cold I patience. We're just not

595
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: ready yet. Here's why. In the pre Civil War era,

596
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,640
Speaker 1: every tool broke because the underlying condition, the question of

597
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: whether slavery would expand or contract, whether the country future

598
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: was slave or free, hadn't been resolved at the level

599
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: of public consensus. The political class kept reaching for procedural

600
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:31,479
Speaker 1: solutions to a moral question, and procedural solutions to moral

601
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 1: questions never hold. They just delay the inevitable. They patch.

602
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 1: They may be able to put it off for a

603
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 1: year or two, but they eventually break, and usually in

604
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: ways much worse than if you'd address the thing directly.

605
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,000
Speaker 1: Right works this way in life. Now, what we have

606
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: now is not slavery. And this is what I want

607
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: us to be careful about. Not to over analogize this.

608
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: And I get it, I'm the one doing it, but

609
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: I'm I'm you know, And this is a reminder it

610
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: just there is a familiarity here. We have a version

611
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: of the same core problem. We have two fundamentally different

612
00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: visions of what America is who? It's four? Who is

613
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: an American right? It's the same questions, and we haven't

614
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 1: yet reached the moment where the cost of not deciding

615
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: exceeds the cost of deciding. So you look at the

616
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,439
Speaker 1: split screen again. The No King's rallies are real, eight

617
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 1: million people is real. Energy is real, But energy doesn't

618
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 1: automatically become a coalition. The pre Civil War era had

619
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: plenty of energy. The abolitionist movement was vibrant, passionate, and

620
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: morally clear, and it took decades more before that energy

621
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 1: converted into the political realignment that produced Lincoln. But remember

622
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 1: Lincoln was a third party solution. Just keep that in mind.

623
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 1: The fractures at Seapack are real, young men worried about

624
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: the economy, worried about a wrong on quietly whispering that

625
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:05,799
Speaker 1: something feels off. But fractures don't automatically produce alternatives. The

626
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: Whig Party fractured badly multiple times before it finally collapsed

627
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 1: and the Republican Party emerged from the wreckage. What I

628
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: think we're missing, and what I'd argue both parties are

629
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,880
Speaker 1: still missing, is the exhaustion from these maximalist positions that

630
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 1: each side wants to take care. Each side still believes,

631
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 1: or at least its base beliefs, that one more election,

632
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: one more mobilization, one more wave gets them to dominance,

633
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: and then they can get this done. Democrats look at

634
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: trumpet thirty six percent and think, this is it, this

635
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: is the moment. Republicans look at those twenty twenty four

636
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: results and think, we have the mandate. We just have

637
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: to hold the line. Neither side is fully reckoned with

638
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: the possibility that they can't win this way, that the

639
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: country is too evenly divided, the structural incentives are too

640
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: deeply entrenched for either maximalist project to fully succeed. And

641
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: here's the uncomfort question I keep coming back to, does

642
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: each party need to exhaust its own version of the

643
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: maximalist fantasy before we find something more durable. Now Republicans

644
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: have had basically are having their maximalist moment. It's Donald Trump, right,

645
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 1: they're living it right now. They have a shutdown that's

646
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,839
Speaker 1: breaking records, they have an Iran war that's generating real

647
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 1: division within their own coalition, approval numbers that suggest the

648
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 1: public is increasingly uncomfortable where this goes. But they're trying

649
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,840
Speaker 1: to deport millions of people. Right, They're trying to do

650
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 1: everything they can. But if Democrats had their equivalent, have

651
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 1: they found the thing that forces a genuine reckoning with

652
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: why they keep losing ground on the economy, immigration, and

653
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: crime even when the other side is collapsing, Or do

654
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: they win the midterms, feel vindicated and defer the reckoning. Again,

655
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: I'm not asking rhetorically. I think it's the actual question

656
00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: that determines whether twenty twenty eight is a stabilizing election

657
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 1: or another pendulum swing that sets up the next cycle

658
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,120
Speaker 1: of backlash. Bottom line is I think we're still a

659
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,160
Speaker 1: couple of more elections away. All right, I have I am,

660
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,760
Speaker 1: like I say, I'm a long term optimist, short term pessimist.

661
00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,359
Speaker 1: But in some ways I think each side and I think,

662
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:12,799
Speaker 1: you know, the base of the Democratic Party hasn't gotten

663
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: its presidency yet, the Republican base has gotten its presidency,

664
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: and it may be we need to see that play

665
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 1: itself out. Maybe it succeeds, maybe it's the answer, Maybe

666
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 1: it's maybe it is maybe it's an FDR like figure,

667
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 1: but we don't know that yet. The point is, I

668
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:33,719
Speaker 1: don't think this has played out now. Lincoln understood something

669
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 1: that the the the eight men before him didn't or wouldn't.

670
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: He understood that you couldn't solve the divide by managing it.

671
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: You could only solve it by going through it. And

672
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,960
Speaker 1: going through it meant naming the thing directly, taking the

673
00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: political risk, and accepting that the short term cost of

674
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: honesty was lower than the long term cost of another delay.

675
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: His second inaugural one of the most extraordinary speeches in

676
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 1: American history, frankly in world history. It didn't pretend the

677
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,239
Speaker 1: war hadn't happened, or that reconciliation would be easy. He

678
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:09,680
Speaker 1: just simply said, with malice toward none, with charity for all.

679
00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:15,280
Speaker 1: But he said it after four years of war, after

680
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: the cost had been paid, after the country had finally

681
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: brutally decided where are we going and who are we

682
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,759
Speaker 1: So we're not there yet. We're probably somewhere in the

683
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: Franklin Pierce to James Buchanan range of this story. We're

684
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: probably past the early avoidance phase. We're into the phase

685
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,680
Speaker 1: where the tools are breaking faster and more visibly. Right,

686
00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: Congress couldn't get every six months, it gets more functional, dysfunctional.

687
00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: J Judiciary seems to get a tad more dysfunctional with

688
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: it as well. But we're not yet at the moment

689
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 1: where the country decides the cost of delay is finally

690
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,960
Speaker 1: too high, where we finally have a leader who meets

691
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: the moment that we may be really fully looking for.

692
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: It might sound grim, I actually think it's useful because

693
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:00,640
Speaker 1: if you know where you are in the story, you

694
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: can stop being surprised by the chaos and you can

695
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: start paying attention to the signal underneath it. The signal

696
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: isn't the rallies. It isn't the straw poles, That isn't

697
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: the shutdown. The signal is whether either party or some

698
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 1: new force we can't fully see yet. Right there was

699
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: the Republican Party was not really that's that much in

700
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 1: the front and center of things in the eighteen thirties, forties,

701
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: and even in the early eighteen fifties. The signal is

702
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 1: whether either party is developing the thing that comes after

703
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,840
Speaker 1: this maximalism that we're ball that we're all in in

704
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: the moment politics of the country as it actually is,

705
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: rather than the country. Each base imagines it can force

706
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: everybody else to exist it. So that's what I'm watching for.

707
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: That's what twenty twenty six will start to tell us.

708
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 1: That's why I'm obsessed with what's happening in Michigan. Governor.

709
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:53,759
Speaker 1: Are they going to go independent or not? Right, we're

710
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 1: going to see, well some of these independents win. Are

711
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: we going to see a punishment of both parties or

712
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: are we going to see just sort of this continued

713
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,840
Speaker 1: sort of windshield wiper approach to things, or we just

714
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:08,360
Speaker 1: go back and forth one more time. So we're not

715
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 1: there yet. But do know this, just like with bankruptcy,

716
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:20,720
Speaker 1: all this stuff takes forever until it happens almost overnight.

717
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: All right, So with that, and again, let me just

718
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: emphasize I just realized I need emphasiz I'm not saying

719
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: it's going to take a hot civil war for us

720
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 1: to decide this political divide that we're in, but we

721
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 1: are sitting here basically right. At some point there's going

722
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: to be an attempt to break this. Maybe it's from

723
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 1: the center, maybe it's from inside one of the two parties,

724
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: maybe it's from a third party. The point is, I

725
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: don't think we're there yet, or we're probably at least one,

726
00:42:56,040 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 1: if not two presidential elections away from that. All right,

727
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: coming up. Like I said, I got Matt Mahon, he

728
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,319
Speaker 1: is the candidate. Then when I talked to Democrats not

729
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 1: associated with any of the candidates running, and they think

730
00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: about the nightmare that is this governor's race has turned into,

731
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 1: particularly for Democrats, because you have two Republicans Chad Bianco,

732
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 1: sheriff from Riverside down there in the southern part of

733
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:25,279
Speaker 1: the state. Steve Hilton, who was one time an aide

734
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: to former British Prime Minister David Cameron, and he's been

735
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,480
Speaker 1: he's likely to be the top vote getter. And the

736
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: possibility is there that two Republicans could finish on top

737
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,839
Speaker 1: and the all party primary and top two and then

738
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:40,359
Speaker 1: all of a sudden and by the way, if you're

739
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: wondering what would happen, there in a friend of mine outline.

740
00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:45,400
Speaker 1: And so if you had somehow the two Republicans finished

741
00:43:45,440 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 1: the top two in California, Hilton versus Bianco, you'd have

742
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 1: Hilton would probably win. You'd have a whole bunch of

743
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: people saying he's the more center of the two. He

744
00:43:57,640 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: would clearly tack quicker to the center than the air FOROO.

745
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: And as a friend of mine said, and he'd be

746
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: recalled and there'd be a new recall election probably within

747
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: a year, and so you would have essentially governing paralysis

748
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: in California like we had sort of in that era

749
00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: between Gray Davis up through the beginning of Arnold Schwarzenegger

750
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,160
Speaker 1: and really through about the first year of Arnold Schwarzenegger

751
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: before he found his sea legs. That said, there's still

752
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: a couple of months before this primary actually takes place.

753
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 1: I do think some Democrats going to get traction. Maybe

754
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 1: it's Eric Swawell, maybe it's Tom Steyer and all the

755
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,799
Speaker 1: money he's spending. Matt Mayhon hopes it's him. He has

756
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 1: got a ton of financial resources, he's got a ton

757
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: of money helping him, but he's yet to really get

758
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: a lot of traction. But he argues there's still time.

759
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 1: So with that, we'll take a break and when we

760
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: come back, by conversation with somebody who would like to

761
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,839
Speaker 1: be the next governor Democratic governor of California. That mayn

762
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:06,080
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Speaker 1: all right. As many of you know, I have spent

794
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,800
Speaker 1: a lot of time featuring candidates for California governor. I

795
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:02,879
Speaker 1: beat your candidates for a lot of offices, but I've

796
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 1: been especially interested in, you know, when you have an

797
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:11,280
Speaker 1: open race for the fourth largest economy in the world.

798
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:14,000
Speaker 1: Now it's creeping up to number four. Maybe my next

799
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 1: guest will confirm for me if it's moved from fifth

800
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: to fourth. Now we we have a there's an open contest,

801
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: and there's really no even in the previous years, right,

802
00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:26,120
Speaker 1: you know, Gavin Newsom was sort of it was there

803
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,800
Speaker 1: in waiting. Jerry Brown before that was there in waiting.

804
00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:32,239
Speaker 1: You know, really not since arguably nineteen ninety eight. Have

805
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: we had an open race for the California governorship that

806
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: looks truly open and obviously with the with the all

807
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:46,160
Speaker 1: party primary, it makes everything kind of fascinating. And so

808
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,799
Speaker 1: the candidate that that's coming on today is the mayor

809
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: of San Jose. He's a Democrat, Matt Mayon. He is

810
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: somebody that I know a lot of a lot of

811
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:03,919
Speaker 1: folks are cs, somebody that that might be that might

812
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 1: have the ability to unite the Democratic coalition in a way.

813
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: It's a very fractured primary at the moment, a lot

814
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: of expectations, a lot of interesting supporters that he has

815
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,280
Speaker 1: so wanted to get to know the mayor. Mayor Mayhon,

816
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast.

817
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 2: Chuck, Thanks so much for having me on. I'm looking

818
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 2: forward to our conversation.

819
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,040
Speaker 1: Well let me start with this, So why'd you run

820
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 1: for mayor when you decided to become mayor of San Jose?

821
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:32,600
Speaker 1: What got you into politics in general and what made

822
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 1: you want to run for mayor of Santase.

823
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Chuck, my interest in politics goes back

824
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 2: to my childhood. I grew up in a little farming

825
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 2: town in California called Watsonville, for those who don't know it.

826
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 2: It's where your strawberries come from. And like a lot

827
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 2: of rural communities, we had we had big challenges, high unemployment,

828
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 2: a lot of crime. Our local high school had a

829
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 2: higher dropout rate than graduation rate. And it was a

830
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 2: work study scholarship on literally on the other side of

831
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 2: a mountain range in San Jose and the heart of

832
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,719
Speaker 2: Silicon Valley that gave me a really big opportunity in

833
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 2: my life to branch out and be able to go

834
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 2: to a great college, and it really just changed the

835
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 2: trajectory of my life. And I was always interested in

836
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,920
Speaker 2: the differences between my hometown with all of its challenges,

837
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 2: in Silicon Valley, with all of its growth and opportunity.

838
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 2: I started reading the local newspaper, went to a high

839
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 2: school that was very into service and civic engagement. My

840
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 2: parents were into civic engagement. My mom was a teacher,

841
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:34,280
Speaker 2: my dad was a maleman, And just from a young age,

842
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 2: I came to this belief that politics and government is

843
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 2: the area where we work out the big questions, solve

844
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 2: the big problems, and it's kind of the only game

845
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 2: in town for really tackling the big things that create

846
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 2: opportunity for people, which is what I'm really interested in.

847
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,279
Speaker 2: So I ended up being a public school teacher for

848
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 2: a while, worked in tech for a while, but ultimately

849
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,360
Speaker 2: found myself drawn back to the place where I was

850
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 2: living and raising a family, San Jose, where it just

851
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 2: felt like we kept asking people to raise their taxes,

852
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 2: but the outcomes weren't getting any better. And I thought,

853
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 2: I'm going to jump in and see if I can

854
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:07,120
Speaker 2: do this a little differently.

855
00:50:08,239 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 1: So let's talk about your decision to run for governor.

856
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: You were in some ways. I know a lot of

857
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 1: people reach out to you, wanted you to run. There's

858
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:18,880
Speaker 1: a lot of candidates in this race you could have,

859
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 1: you know. So I'm going to ask this, what about

860
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: the other candidates in the race, particularly in your party

861
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: on the Democratic side, what are they missing that you

862
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 1: think you bring to this race.

863
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was watching the race closely, was not planning

864
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 2: to run, sort of watched it all of last year,

865
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:40,879
Speaker 2: and then early this year realized there was a big

866
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 2: void in the conversation, particularly in the more moderate problem

867
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 2: solver lane to try to bring people together. And it's

868
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,960
Speaker 2: just I guess a few things felt missing. One I'm

869
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,440
Speaker 2: the only current mayor and executive with both public and

870
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,680
Speaker 2: private sector executive experience in the race. I think we

871
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 2: are moment where the next governor of California has to

872
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 2: be very execution focused. We don't have a revenue problem,

873
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,399
Speaker 2: we have an execution and accountability problem, which I'm sure

874
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 2: we'll talk more about. Number Two, I'm worried about the

875
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 2: partisan divide in this country and rising populism on the

876
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,440
Speaker 2: right and the left, and people sort of just giving

877
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,479
Speaker 2: easy answers, and so in my party on the left

878
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:27,919
Speaker 2: right now in California, at least, it's in vogue to say, well,

879
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,200
Speaker 2: all of our problems in California are just because of

880
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 2: Donald Trump or just because of the tech billionaires. And look,

881
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 2: I've got plenty of critiques of both, but the truth

882
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:41,320
Speaker 2: is We've got a lot of resources, a lot of assets.

883
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:44,840
Speaker 2: We've increased spending in the state of California by seventy

884
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 2: five percent, or one hundred and fifty billion dollars in

885
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 2: just the last six years. And I'm the only Democrat

886
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 2: in this race saying we need to demand that our

887
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 2: state government do better before we ask people to pay more.

888
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 2: And I've got out a track record as mayor of

889
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 2: the largest city in northern California. Of doing that, we

890
00:52:04,239 --> 00:52:08,560
Speaker 2: didn't raise taxes, but we dramatically changed the level of crime.

891
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 2: We reduced it and became the safest big city in

892
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 2: the country. Same with reducing homelessness, getting housing built, and

893
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 2: I just I think accountability is what the state needs.

894
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,279
Speaker 2: And I didn't hear anybody else talking about it.

895
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. I know that I spent a

896
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 1: little bit of time in San Jose and one of

897
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,719
Speaker 1: the there are times when you're in the city that

898
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 1: you you can't you're unaware that Silicon Valley's right there.

899
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 1: And I'll be honest, I the first, you know, I

900
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: expected more of a presence in a positive way, and

901
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 1: it isn't there. It's it's interesting suburban Yeah, that that

902
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 1: that the Silicon Valley workers don't really live in San Jose.

903
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 2: It was actually the opposite. It's the opposite. We we

904
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 2: housed the workforce. San Jose was built as the bedroom community.

905
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: There's a lot of people that seems to commute, that

906
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: seemed to commute right all the way closer to the Sancisco.

907
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. So historically what happened was the defense industry invested

908
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 2: early and out of that became the semiconductor industry, and

909
00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 2: the jobs were actually closer to Stanford or Palo Alto,

910
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 2: which is almost the midpoint between San Jose and San Francisco.

911
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 2: San Jose was all agriculture up until the World War

912
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 2: two boom, but in the sixties and seventies, all of

913
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 2: that that valley would used to be called the Valley

914
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,240
Speaker 2: of Heart's Delay. All of those orchards got turned into

915
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:34,439
Speaker 2: single family home neighborhoods. And so San Jose is one

916
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,800
Speaker 2: million people in the heart of Silicon Valley, but it

917
00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 2: is it is the residential center of the valley. It's

918
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:44,600
Speaker 2: where tech's workforce lives. It's where their kids go to school,

919
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 2: they go to the park, the library. But what we've

920
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 2: been doing in recent years that I'm really excited about

921
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 2: is we're building an urban center in our downtown and

922
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 2: it's starting to grow. We're getting housing built. Silicon Valley

923
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 2: has always lacked a proper downtown or urban center, and

924
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:03,759
Speaker 2: that's now becoming. That's San Jose's downtown. But you're right,

925
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 2: it's it's a more sprung It's not like New York

926
00:54:06,040 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 2: or Chicago or one of our you know.

927
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:10,720
Speaker 1: What would you attribute this to though, why why hasn't

928
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 1: Because I looked at it, It's like, I'm just surprised

929
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:16,800
Speaker 1: that the companies themselves, you know, I expected to see

930
00:54:17,280 --> 00:54:21,360
Speaker 1: the Facebook Arena, the arts the Apple Arts Center, you know,

931
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, which is what you see in

932
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 1: other cities where the industry is sort of connected to

933
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: the community, and it always it has felt as if

934
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:34,880
Speaker 1: and I'm just curious if you believe this or maybe

935
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 1: you've improved you feel like you can improve this, which

936
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 1: is that the big companies of Silicon Valley haven't necessarily

937
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,240
Speaker 1: invested in San Jose and the way you might expect

938
00:54:43,239 --> 00:54:43,480
Speaker 1: them to.

939
00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that these I worked at the tech

940
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:54,000
Speaker 2: sector building civic tech tools, helping people essentially organize and

941
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 2: be civically active and hold their elected officials accountable. And

942
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 2: I can tell you from working in the space for

943
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:06,360
Speaker 2: quite a few years that technologists don't start from the

944
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:11,480
Speaker 2: perspective of politics or or the kind of presence that

945
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 2: you're talking about, or even brand building. I know. It's

946
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 2: sort of the myth, although I think kind of the

947
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 2: reality of tech that it's much more people who are

948
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:26,960
Speaker 2: tinkers invenors who are literally starting in a garage, and

949
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 2: they're interested in creating something new and powerful that gives

950
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,640
Speaker 2: you a new capability that can solve a problem. And

951
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 2: it's sort of like the all the rest, you know,

952
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 2: the revenue profit, you know, sponsorships, marketing. Politics is super secondary.

953
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,719
Speaker 2: For years, the tech sector had a mutual avoidance with

954
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:49,839
Speaker 2: government and just wanted to be left alone. It's actually

955
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:53,600
Speaker 2: a very libertarian sector. And so whether you're in San

956
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 2: Francisco and.

957
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 1: Again still is a libertarian mindset. I mean, you know,

958
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: I think.

959
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,080
Speaker 2: We do have some though. I have to give a

960
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:04,919
Speaker 2: huge shout out to Adobe, headquartered in downtown San Jose,

961
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 2: thousands of employees. They contribute a ton to the community.

962
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,800
Speaker 2: They're always sponsoring things, investing in arts and culture.

963
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: But they are Why do you think they're the exception

964
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:17,960
Speaker 1: because they do a minute you just said that. It

965
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 1: dawned on me. I remember seeing a lot of the

966
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:21,440
Speaker 1: Adobe brand.

967
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, although I've got to say same for Cisco, which

968
00:56:24,719 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 2: is here in San Jose. I think it depends on

969
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 2: the maturity of the company and the maturity of the

970
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 2: sub industry. If it's a new robotics company or vertical

971
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:35,880
Speaker 2: takeoff and landing vehicle, they're just focused on trying to

972
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:37,600
Speaker 2: get the tech to work. They're trying to actually figure

973
00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:39,439
Speaker 2: out as they're a market for this thing, and does

974
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 2: it work. Once a company has been around twenty thirty

975
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 2: years as profitable, as more mature, they're a lot more

976
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 2: likely to actually look around and say, Okay, how do

977
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,399
Speaker 2: we show up in the community. What are our responsibilities?

978
00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:53,520
Speaker 2: But you're right, I mean, I think we're pointing out

979
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,919
Speaker 2: as an industry that until recently at least, has been

980
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:01,319
Speaker 2: sort of being nascent, just wasn't a totally.

981
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 1: Mature I mean, I guess if you were to describe

982
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: them as a person, you'd say they're kind of introverted.

983
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 1: They're just they don't and I don't, I don't, I

984
00:57:09,040 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 1: don't write. I don't buy that it's like some nefarious

985
00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 1: reason they don't want to contribute to a community. It's

986
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 1: just this. It's not like you see with other industries.

987
00:57:18,600 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 1: And I remember it. I guess I would. It feels

988
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 1: as if Santjose should be benefiting more than they are.

989
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 1: I do you argue that?

990
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 2: I mean, do you feel like that's my pitch? So

991
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 2: for example, we have a Super Bowl World Cup coming

992
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:33,919
Speaker 2: to San Jose this year. We just hosted Super Bowl

993
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:38,280
Speaker 2: World Cups coming with six matches actually March Madness this week,

994
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,840
Speaker 2: and I went around to our local employers and asked

995
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:44,920
Speaker 2: them to contribute to a fan experience to make it

996
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,000
Speaker 2: open and accessible to all of our residents, so that

997
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 2: even residents who couldn't afford a ticket to one of

998
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:52,160
Speaker 2: the big games could have a great experience. We raised

999
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 2: about five million dollars from local employers, mostly tech employers,

1000
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:59,640
Speaker 2: but not all view that as being their sort of

1001
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:02,720
Speaker 2: civic responsibility. I'll give you another example I'm really proud of.

1002
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 2: We've created something called AI for all. I am concerned,

1003
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 2: as I think most people are, that AI is coming quickly.

1004
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 2: It's very powerful. It could do a lot of good.

1005
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 2: It could also do a lot of harm. We worked with,

1006
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 2: reached out to and convinced three of the leading AI companies, Google,

1007
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 2: Open Ai, and Anthropic to actually partner with our library

1008
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 2: system to make their tools freely accessible along with tutorials,

1009
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:34,240
Speaker 2: in person trainings, and really try to open up this

1010
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 2: technology and make it accessible for all of our residents.

1011
00:58:37,560 --> 00:58:39,720
Speaker 2: We have seven hundred thousand people in San Jose with

1012
00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:42,480
Speaker 2: a library card. City of a million people, seventy percent

1013
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 2: of a library card. We want everybody in our city,

1014
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:47,680
Speaker 2: and ultimately everybody in the world needs to have access

1015
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 2: to these tools and the training and tech that they

1016
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,520
Speaker 2: need to be able to participate and share in this

1017
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:56,800
Speaker 2: new emerging economy. If we don't get ahead of this,

1018
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,640
Speaker 2: there's real risk of harming you, harming people.

1019
00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 1: To me, there's two challenges with AI. There's accessibility, you

1020
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 1: just outline that one. But there's also guardrails, and the

1021
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: industry doesn't want any you know, maybe anthropic is more

1022
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 1: open to guardrails and open AI, but ultimately, you know,

1023
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 1: other than regulatory capture, I'm the political senate here. You

1024
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:20,400
Speaker 1: don't have to concur with that. I'm the Senate. I

1025
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: will say it. You know, I think ultimately, usually in

1026
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:26,280
Speaker 1: one of these instances, there's somebody that is willing to

1027
00:59:26,320 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 1: be pro regulation as long as they get to do

1028
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 1: it on their terms, right, you know, and becomes a

1029
00:59:31,080 --> 00:59:33,560
Speaker 1: bit of industry capture. So let me ask you this,

1030
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:36,960
Speaker 1: what should Because the state of California here, you guys,

1031
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:43,960
Speaker 1: decide on some guardrails, it's going it potentially becomes the standard.

1032
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:48,320
Speaker 1: It potentially can have that kind of impact, Right, California

1033
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:51,320
Speaker 1: has that kind of ability that it can have outsized

1034
00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:54,000
Speaker 1: impact on you know, we're seeing it now. New York

1035
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: passed a law about surveillance pricing that you've got to

1036
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 1: let people know about surveillance pricing. So because New York

1037
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 1: has that law, you see companies even if they're sending

1038
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:06,919
Speaker 1: an offer to Oklahoma, they know it might be seen

1039
01:00:06,920 --> 01:00:08,480
Speaker 1: in New York, so they have to abide by the law.

1040
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:11,640
Speaker 1: So the point being is certain states can have outsized

1041
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 1: influence when it comes to guardrails. What are the guardrails

1042
01:00:14,920 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 1: that you'd like to see state government? If you're governor,

1043
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 1: what would you be proposing for the AI industry?

1044
01:00:22,800 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a really important question, and I

1045
01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 2: have the benefit of being the only candidate in this

1046
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 2: race that has already had experienced regulating AI. We use

1047
01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:36,000
Speaker 2: technology throughout San Jose. In fact, we've been on the

1048
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 2: leading edge of deploying AI to improve public services. We

1049
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:44,640
Speaker 2: created something called the gov AI Coalition that has grown

1050
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:47,560
Speaker 2: from a handful of cities to over nine hundred public

1051
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 2: agencies that are convening and setting policy around the responsible

1052
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 2: and ethical use of AI. So what does that mean

1053
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 2: in practice when we deploy a new tool like automated

1054
01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 2: license plate readers. We have a responsibility for being totally

1055
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:11,160
Speaker 2: transparent with the public. What do we collect, where, when, why,

1056
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 2: how's the data used? Is it shared with anyone? So

1057
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,600
Speaker 2: we publish all that on our website, and we're very restrictive.

1058
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 2: We don't do facial recognition. That is an explicit regulation

1059
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 2: and standard. We don't keep the data indefinitely. In fact,

1060
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 2: with our automated license plate readers, we delete the data

1061
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,600
Speaker 2: after thirty days unless it is still actively needed in

1062
01:01:31,680 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 2: a prosecution or investigation and it's it's been kept specifically

1063
01:01:35,880 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 2: for that purpose. Otherwise it's deleted because we don't want

1064
01:01:39,040 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 2: to build long term profiles on time.

1065
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:45,280
Speaker 1: That government is. How do you guarantee that the company

1066
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 1: that you've contracted with to do this isn't Well, we make.

1067
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:53,920
Speaker 2: We make them sign a contract with us on we

1068
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 2: do not. So in the case of just the license

1069
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 2: plate readers, we own that. We make sure we own

1070
01:01:58,480 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 2: the data so it can't be shared by the company.

1071
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 2: They don't control it. We do it in our it's

1072
01:02:03,720 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 2: in our server. And so I think the importance of

1073
01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 2: being out in front and testing and using these tools

1074
01:02:11,200 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 2: in government is so that we don't get blindsided, so

1075
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 2: that we learn and are in a position to understand

1076
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:20,560
Speaker 2: the tools so that we can effectively regulate them. And

1077
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:22,520
Speaker 2: I think that the state of California over the coming

1078
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 2: years is going to have to create the regulatory framework

1079
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:29,840
Speaker 2: around privacy, data security, protecting children all in this new

1080
01:02:29,880 --> 01:02:32,280
Speaker 2: context of AI. And I think the biggest thing is

1081
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:36,640
Speaker 2: what you referenced in your New York example. Transparency is

1082
01:02:36,680 --> 01:02:40,280
Speaker 2: what I think is the most important starting place. There

1083
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,959
Speaker 2: may be specific things that we need to stay Yes

1084
01:02:43,040 --> 01:02:45,200
Speaker 2: you can do this, and no you can't do that,

1085
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 2: but you need to know when AI is being used.

1086
01:02:48,840 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 2: You want to know if a video is AI generated

1087
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 2: or not. So I think that sort of transparency and

1088
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 2: truth in labeling almost if you will to use an

1089
01:02:57,000 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 2: analogy from a different, different sector, I think that's really important.

1090
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:14,720
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this, why do you think a

1091
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 1: fairly large majority of the country is essentially negative on AI.

1092
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's the unknown. I think it's it's scary. Two.

1093
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 2: I think there are a couple of things that.

1094
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:31,320
Speaker 1: We're an outlier with other Western democracies. By the way,

1095
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:33,440
Speaker 1: on this, like we're AI is more unpopular in the

1096
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:37,280
Speaker 1: United States than it is in other in in other

1097
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 1: places where there's been there's been some public opinion research,

1098
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:42,760
Speaker 1: So it does seem like we're a little bit more.

1099
01:03:43,400 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 2: We're on the forefront of it, so we may just

1100
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:48,800
Speaker 2: be the leading indicator. Maybe that is other countries. I mean,

1101
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:52,520
Speaker 2: we have the world's leading AI companies in the US.

1102
01:03:52,600 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 1: So we're feeling it first. Yeah.

1103
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:56,480
Speaker 2: I think we're feeling it first. Yeah. I mean, look, people,

1104
01:03:56,600 --> 01:04:00,600
Speaker 2: people are right to be concerned, and I think you know,

1105
01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:03,440
Speaker 2: one area of concern is privacy, and that's where total

1106
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 2: transparency around what you collect and how it's used, and

1107
01:04:09,640 --> 01:04:11,200
Speaker 2: whether or not it's stored all of that.

1108
01:04:11,640 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 1: Right, you saying the right things, but me, I understand,

1109
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 1: But let me pauge you. Then let me podge you

1110
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 1: there in privacy because this has been an issue for

1111
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:24,320
Speaker 1: twenty years with Silicon Valley and the development of social

1112
01:04:24,360 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 1: media platforms. Was we were supposed to have all these concerns,

1113
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:33,040
Speaker 1: and we'd hear plenty of people talking about these concerns,

1114
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:37,360
Speaker 1: and then the companies themselves didn't behave And you know,

1115
01:04:37,560 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 1: I personally, I think the reason why there's no trust

1116
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:43,160
Speaker 1: with AI and some is because the same people that

1117
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: brought you social media which has been an utter disaster

1118
01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 1: for our information ecosystem. Are the ones bringing you AI,

1119
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:52,440
Speaker 1: and we're supposed to feel good about this, Like I

1120
01:04:52,600 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 1: just that's what frustrates me is the we're going through

1121
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:01,840
Speaker 1: the same conversationtions we had at the at the advent

1122
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 1: of social media and and you know, because at first

1123
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:06,040
Speaker 1: it was awesome, and then of course after they are

1124
01:05:06,280 --> 01:05:09,800
Speaker 1: we really, oh, whoa, this this could be weaponized and manipulated.

1125
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:12,640
Speaker 1: Now we're and now we're now it's already toothpaste out

1126
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:14,400
Speaker 1: of the tube. It's nothing we can do about it.

1127
01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:17,919
Speaker 1: And how do we ensure this doesn't happen with AI?

1128
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 2: Well, Chuck, I mean, look, I'm not I'm not here

1129
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:24,720
Speaker 2: to defend social media and when they're I'm.

1130
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 1: Much trying to make you But I do want I

1131
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 1: do want government to be more skeptical and put these

1132
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:31,680
Speaker 1: guys a bit through a little bit more of the ringer,

1133
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:32,200
Speaker 1: if you will.

1134
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and I think there's okay. So there's there's

1135
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:37,360
Speaker 2: a couple of different things. So when there's an actual

1136
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:41,560
Speaker 2: violation of people's privacy, collecting their data, using it in

1137
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 2: ways that they have not authorized, there needs to be

1138
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:48,560
Speaker 2: strict accountability Cambridge Analytica being an example of a firm

1139
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:50,840
Speaker 2: that scraped a bunch of data used it a ways

1140
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:53,200
Speaker 2: people weren't aware of, and I believe they were fined

1141
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 2: five billion dollars and that's appropriate. There ought to be

1142
01:05:56,520 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 2: serious law enforcement around the regulations we've put in place

1143
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 2: around personally identifying information PII. There's a whole body of

1144
01:06:05,400 --> 01:06:08,560
Speaker 2: law around that that needs to be enforced by regulators,

1145
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 2: and that has to be done. When it comes to

1146
01:06:11,160 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 2: the echo chambers of social media, you start to get

1147
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:17,920
Speaker 2: into a difficult place. And I think it's important to

1148
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:20,560
Speaker 2: be skeptical and to think about but you also don't

1149
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 2: want to impose on people's free speech. One of the

1150
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:27,560
Speaker 2: things that is interesting is the crowdsourcing of community notes

1151
01:06:27,600 --> 01:06:31,880
Speaker 2: on x where somebody can actually say, well, this is

1152
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:34,520
Speaker 2: not the whole story. Click here to learn more. And

1153
01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:36,880
Speaker 2: so I think there's kind of this evolving space of

1154
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 2: how do we actually deal with misinformation? And that's a

1155
01:06:40,120 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 2: harder one because what you call misinformation maybe somebody else

1156
01:06:45,640 --> 01:06:47,840
Speaker 2: saying well, that's my opinion, and so it becomes hard

1157
01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 2: to police the truth. And I think there are limits

1158
01:06:51,040 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 2: there to what government or technology can do in ensuring

1159
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:58,160
Speaker 2: that what people are saying is truthful and accurate. At

1160
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 2: some point here you said regotron environment that needs to

1161
01:07:01,280 --> 01:07:03,520
Speaker 2: be enforced. The Cambridge analyticals of the world need to

1162
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:07,680
Speaker 2: be sued and held accountable, maybe criminally liable, But at

1163
01:07:07,680 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 2: some point it's also up to us to think through

1164
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:15,480
Speaker 2: our public education system about media literacy, critical thinking, you know,

1165
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 2: training and teaching people so that they don't just passively

1166
01:07:18,520 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 2: hear something and think, oh, that must be that must

1167
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:24,440
Speaker 2: be true. It is, it's on steroids. I'll grant you this,

1168
01:07:24,560 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 2: but keep in mind when the country was found and

1169
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:30,000
Speaker 2: everybody was running off pamphlets in the basement, say whatever

1170
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:33,320
Speaker 2: the heck you wanted, and we always we've always dealt

1171
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 2: with this issue of misinformation.

1172
01:07:35,080 --> 01:07:39,040
Speaker 1: This is I and I and I. It makes me

1173
01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 1: happy to hear you put it in those terms, because

1174
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 1: that is something I'd like to frequently remind people. In fact,

1175
01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:46,919
Speaker 1: you know, people say our media is polarized. Our media

1176
01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 1: has been polarized for a majority of our cunture's history.

1177
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:52,840
Speaker 1: We just had a brief period called the Cold War

1178
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 1: where we weren't it. We can we can have an

1179
01:07:56,480 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 1: entire debate about why that was for an outlaw period

1180
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 1: of six years. We had a we were you know,

1181
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:06,280
Speaker 1: we kept our fringes at the side. All right, I'm

1182
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 1: going to get off social media, the Silicon Valley issues

1183
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:13,120
Speaker 1: and get to something that is you're doing in San Jose.

1184
01:08:14,560 --> 01:08:16,760
Speaker 1: Two issues that you're tackling in San Jose that are

1185
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:20,640
Speaker 1: also issues that this to deal with homelessness and affordable

1186
01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:26,200
Speaker 1: housing and the things you're trying to do. Some people

1187
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:29,080
Speaker 1: love them, and you're some people are pushing back at you.

1188
01:08:29,160 --> 01:08:31,360
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, there's you get You know in

1189
01:08:31,400 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 1: some ways that that means you're trying something. If you

1190
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:36,680
Speaker 1: don't have people on both sides of stuff, that it

1191
01:08:36,720 --> 01:08:40,000
Speaker 1: meants you're not means it means you're not trying hard enough.

1192
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:42,519
Speaker 1: In my opinion. So you're trying something, Tell me about it,

1193
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 1: Tell me about homelessness. What do you think you're getting

1194
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:46,480
Speaker 1: right in San Jose that you can take statewide?

1195
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:49,640
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, first of all, the starting point on this

1196
01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:52,400
Speaker 2: as I came into office was things just kept getting

1197
01:08:52,400 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 2: worse year after year, even though we were spending more

1198
01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:57,000
Speaker 2: and more. The state had spent over thirty billion dollars.

1199
01:08:57,040 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 2: Even just in a city like San Jose. We were

1200
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:01,679
Speaker 2: spending one hundred million dollar dollars a year. Our county

1201
01:09:01,680 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 2: had passed a billion dollar bond, and I'm I try

1202
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 2: to be a data driven guy. It's important to have

1203
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 2: a governing philosophy and some court and core values, but

1204
01:09:10,479 --> 01:09:12,760
Speaker 2: then on top of that, you've got to actually look

1205
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:15,560
Speaker 2: at data on what works in practice. And everything was

1206
01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 2: going in the wrong direction. We had this community plan

1207
01:09:18,640 --> 01:09:21,479
Speaker 2: to end homelessness in San Jose that didn't have any

1208
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:23,680
Speaker 2: math behind it, and as I did the back of

1209
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 2: the envelope math, what I found was what we were

1210
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 2: doing was never going to solve the problem. We would

1211
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:33,879
Speaker 2: have needed six billion dollars in twenty years just to

1212
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:37,400
Speaker 2: address the people on our streets at that moment. And

1213
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:41,120
Speaker 2: so we moved away from the slowest, most expensive solution,

1214
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:44,840
Speaker 2: which was using public dollars to build brand new apartments

1215
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:47,479
Speaker 2: for folks at a million dollars a door, which is

1216
01:09:47,520 --> 01:09:50,320
Speaker 2: thirty percent higher than it costs the private marketplace to

1217
01:09:50,320 --> 01:09:53,640
Speaker 2: build new housing and over six years to build, and

1218
01:09:53,720 --> 01:09:57,920
Speaker 2: we pivoted to building basic, dignified shelter. We converted old motels,

1219
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:01,360
Speaker 2: bought prefabricated modular units. What they all have in common

1220
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:05,280
Speaker 2: is we're giving people a safe, dignified place, a room

1221
01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:08,840
Speaker 2: with a door that locks access to services, case management,

1222
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:12,720
Speaker 2: on site security, meals the basic things people need to

1223
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:16,360
Speaker 2: be stabilized and start to turn their lives around. And

1224
01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:18,720
Speaker 2: what we have found in the last few years of

1225
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:22,600
Speaker 2: scaling up safe and dignified shelter with services is that

1226
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:24,760
Speaker 2: we've been able to move thousands of people in from

1227
01:10:24,800 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 2: these unmanaged tent encampments that have been just there where

1228
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 2: people are just living in human misery and dying at

1229
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 2: very high rates. We've reduced the number of people who

1230
01:10:35,280 --> 01:10:39,479
Speaker 2: are dying, we've reduced the amount of health issues, and

1231
01:10:39,520 --> 01:10:42,320
Speaker 2: we've given people a real shot. In fact, twenty eight

1232
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:44,519
Speaker 2: percent of the people we brought indoors over the last

1233
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 2: few years have already graduated to permanent housing because they

1234
01:10:47,520 --> 01:10:50,320
Speaker 2: were able to take advantage of the services we were offering.

1235
01:10:50,600 --> 01:10:54,519
Speaker 2: So San Jose, by pivoting and looking at the data

1236
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:58,120
Speaker 2: and thinking differently, has led the state of California and

1237
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:01,240
Speaker 2: reducing the number of people living outside in tent encampments

1238
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:03,640
Speaker 2: by about one third, and for the first time in

1239
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:06,760
Speaker 2: our history, a majority of people who are homeless in

1240
01:11:06,800 --> 01:11:11,000
Speaker 2: San Jose will be living indoors, not outdoors. And you know,

1241
01:11:11,360 --> 01:11:14,400
Speaker 2: it's very rich for folks to criticize this, but they're

1242
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 2: not the ones living and dying in misery and a

1243
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 2: tent encampment without even access to a bathroom. And the

1244
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 2: truth is, cities like New York and Boston and Chicago

1245
01:11:23,320 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 2: have similar rates of homelessness, but the differences they build

1246
01:11:27,160 --> 01:11:30,599
Speaker 2: shelter capacity. They don't leave people to die on the streets,

1247
01:11:30,680 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 2: because you can't do that in a place with the

1248
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:35,719
Speaker 2: cold winter. But in California we've been complacent. We never

1249
01:11:35,760 --> 01:11:38,240
Speaker 2: built the shelter capacity to bring people indoors.

1250
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 1: So we think this is an issue in San Francisco,

1251
01:11:41,240 --> 01:11:43,680
Speaker 1: La San Diego that they need more shelter capacity.

1252
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,880
Speaker 2: Well, look, yeah, I mean the data is so clearuck.

1253
01:11:47,000 --> 01:11:50,480
Speaker 2: I mean, we are twelve percent of the nation's population.

1254
01:11:51,080 --> 01:11:53,720
Speaker 2: We have over forty percent of the people who live

1255
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 2: outside in the country on our streets. We haven't built

1256
01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:01,360
Speaker 2: enough shelter, we haven't built enough treatment capacity, and even

1257
01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:04,200
Speaker 2: when we have those beds, we have been reticent to

1258
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 2: hold people accountable for coming indoors. Now, I do want

1259
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:09,360
Speaker 2: to note something else here. We can get into all

1260
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:14,040
Speaker 2: the addiction and mental illness points, but a place where

1261
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 2: I agree wholeheartedly with the advocates in this in this

1262
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:22,800
Speaker 2: case is that we have broken the housing market in

1263
01:12:22,840 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 2: California and the rent is too damn expensive. So we

1264
01:12:27,280 --> 01:12:27,800
Speaker 2: actually agree.

1265
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:29,559
Speaker 1: You're supposed to say the rant is too damn high.

1266
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:31,160
Speaker 1: Remember there was that political party.

1267
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 2: That got that's what it is.

1268
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: I missed that guy. I don't remember, but he was

1269
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:37,560
Speaker 1: the rent is too damn high guy. I think he

1270
01:12:37,640 --> 01:12:39,760
Speaker 1: ran for mayor of New York City about ten years ago.

1271
01:12:39,840 --> 01:12:42,479
Speaker 1: But that's I think people feel that way in a

1272
01:12:42,520 --> 01:12:43,280
Speaker 1: lot of places.

1273
01:12:44,760 --> 01:12:47,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I mean, look, that's part of the overarching

1274
01:12:47,520 --> 01:12:49,800
Speaker 2: problem here is that we don't have enough housing that

1275
01:12:49,960 --> 01:12:53,080
Speaker 2: is affordable. But I would also say that's largely a

1276
01:12:53,120 --> 01:12:56,720
Speaker 2: public policy failure. We have the slowest permitting times, the

1277
01:12:56,720 --> 01:13:00,720
Speaker 2: most aggressive environmental laws, the highest impact ease. I mean,

1278
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:04,519
Speaker 2: we just we've made it so slow and expensive to

1279
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:07,759
Speaker 2: build that the housing market isn't keeping up with demand

1280
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 2: and actually building housing affordably for people.

1281
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:14,559
Speaker 1: Let me ask this, because you know, I can we

1282
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 1: have environmental regulation that's just faster, Like you know, I

1283
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:23,559
Speaker 1: hate that the choice becomes well, we just won't do

1284
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:26,880
Speaker 1: this environmental impact statement because it slows things down. Well,

1285
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:29,240
Speaker 1: why does it have to slow things down? Why can't

1286
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:33,559
Speaker 1: we Why can't you both have those things but in

1287
01:13:33,600 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 1: a timely capacity? What is the And maybe you don't

1288
01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:39,160
Speaker 1: know the answer to this, and I would understand if

1289
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:41,040
Speaker 1: you didn't, But that's always been one of my head

1290
01:13:41,080 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 1: you know, it's always presented as a choice. Well, either

1291
01:13:44,040 --> 01:13:47,160
Speaker 1: you can have an environmental impact, you know that, or

1292
01:13:47,200 --> 01:13:49,559
Speaker 1: that slows things down. No, well, why does it have

1293
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:51,080
Speaker 1: to Why does it slow things down?

1294
01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:53,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I agree with you. I don't think it

1295
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:55,840
Speaker 2: needs to be either or at all. Now, I do

1296
01:13:55,880 --> 01:14:00,679
Speaker 2: think there's a big difference between wanting to build out

1297
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:05,280
Speaker 2: in greenfield open space outside of a growth boundary. If

1298
01:14:05,320 --> 01:14:07,439
Speaker 2: you want to build out in the valleys in the

1299
01:14:07,520 --> 01:14:11,599
Speaker 2: hills of California, that probably should take an environmental review

1300
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:14,960
Speaker 2: process that is quite a bit more robust and takes

1301
01:14:15,000 --> 01:14:17,839
Speaker 2: more time than if you want to do infill development.

1302
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:21,519
Speaker 2: My big complaint has been even in our urbanized areas,

1303
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:25,400
Speaker 2: where we have roads and sewers and we're talking about

1304
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:28,439
Speaker 2: building on a surface parking lot or a place that

1305
01:14:28,520 --> 01:14:32,439
Speaker 2: is adjacent to a bunch of urbanized development, we will

1306
01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:35,240
Speaker 2: still take, at least up until very recently, on almost

1307
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:38,639
Speaker 2: all projects have taken over a year to go through

1308
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:41,559
Speaker 2: environmental and our definition of environmental, just to be clear,

1309
01:14:41,680 --> 01:14:46,360
Speaker 2: with California's Environmental Quality Act SEQUA, is so much broader

1310
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:50,280
Speaker 2: than what you might imagine is the environment. It's not

1311
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 2: clean air, clean water, it goes far beyond that. It

1312
01:14:55,680 --> 01:15:03,240
Speaker 2: is noise impacts, traffic impacts, shadow historic registries, Native American

1313
01:15:03,320 --> 01:15:06,679
Speaker 2: remains in the ground. I mean, just an endless list

1314
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:11,479
Speaker 2: of potential impacts with a lot of discretion or debate

1315
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:15,120
Speaker 2: over what are the right mitigations. And I think we've

1316
01:15:15,120 --> 01:15:17,320
Speaker 2: got to simplify that now. It's not to say we shouldn't,

1317
01:15:18,240 --> 01:15:20,800
Speaker 2: you know, check if you're destroying a historic building, and

1318
01:15:21,080 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 2: sure that's valid, but it can't take as long as

1319
01:15:24,400 --> 01:15:27,000
Speaker 2: it does. And this is where I actually think technology

1320
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:29,680
Speaker 2: can be really helpful. It ought to be that we

1321
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:33,040
Speaker 2: have inventory things in advance, and it doesn't take a

1322
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:35,760
Speaker 2: year to do a one off bespoke study. Where we

1323
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:39,360
Speaker 2: have this cottage industry of consultants who make millions of

1324
01:15:39,400 --> 01:15:42,519
Speaker 2: dollars taking a year or more to study everything. We

1325
01:15:42,560 --> 01:15:44,760
Speaker 2: ought to be able to run it against a database

1326
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:48,360
Speaker 2: and say, okay, here's how many people are living here?

1327
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:52,559
Speaker 2: Here's the decibel level. You can't hit memory and nail after,

1328
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:54,360
Speaker 2: you know, nine to eight pm or whatever.

1329
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:57,360
Speaker 1: I'm going to make a really awkward comparison here, and

1330
01:15:57,400 --> 01:15:59,760
Speaker 1: you could say I'm crazy, and I hope it doesn't

1331
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:01,599
Speaker 1: get you in trouble, but it's I sort of feel

1332
01:16:01,640 --> 01:16:04,000
Speaker 1: about it the way I feel about there should be

1333
01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:07,240
Speaker 1: a time, because you're right, this stuff can be endless

1334
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:09,240
Speaker 1: when it comes to like waiting for a permit to

1335
01:16:09,280 --> 01:16:11,800
Speaker 1: be approved and all this stuff. It's like, frankly, when

1336
01:16:11,800 --> 01:16:14,680
Speaker 1: I'm watching a sporting event and there's instant replay. If

1337
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 1: it's taking you so long to decide whether something is

1338
01:16:18,400 --> 01:16:21,280
Speaker 1: in or out, then whatever the call was is the call,

1339
01:16:21,720 --> 01:16:24,360
Speaker 1: and it's like you just time is up, you know there.

1340
01:16:24,880 --> 01:16:26,800
Speaker 1: It's it's like I almost feel that way about like

1341
01:16:27,360 --> 01:16:29,759
Speaker 1: instead of an endless it being, it's almost like people

1342
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:32,000
Speaker 1: want to have more time so they can find something

1343
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:36,599
Speaker 1: that's wrong, versus, look, you've got a finite amount of time.

1344
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:38,400
Speaker 1: This is a reasonable amount of time, and if it

1345
01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:41,080
Speaker 1: doesn't you don't discover it within this amount of time,

1346
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:43,640
Speaker 1: then it's and it's probably not there and if you

1347
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:46,400
Speaker 1: miss it, that's on you. And eventually you're going to

1348
01:16:46,439 --> 01:16:47,720
Speaker 1: be held accountable for missing it.

1349
01:16:48,400 --> 01:16:51,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that exactly, And actually that's part of my plan.

1350
01:16:51,640 --> 01:16:54,080
Speaker 2: I put up my my big housing plan on mayn

1351
01:16:54,120 --> 01:16:56,879
Speaker 2: from California dot com and it's my you know, fifteen

1352
01:16:56,920 --> 01:16:59,960
Speaker 2: point plan for how we unbreak the housing market in California.

1353
01:17:00,160 --> 01:17:05,320
Speaker 2: One of the fifteen points is to require that conforming

1354
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:10,400
Speaker 2: projects for infill get that permit within the building permit

1355
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:11,320
Speaker 2: within thirty days.

1356
01:17:11,400 --> 01:17:12,960
Speaker 1: And it just they're just going to get it. You

1357
01:17:13,000 --> 01:17:15,519
Speaker 1: find out within thirty days, like you know, whatever it is,

1358
01:17:15,560 --> 01:17:17,200
Speaker 1: so that you can move on, you know.

1359
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:21,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. I also think we're so risk averse and

1360
01:17:21,080 --> 01:17:24,719
Speaker 2: worried about litigation. California is probably the most litigious place

1361
01:17:24,840 --> 01:17:28,479
Speaker 2: on earth that we were scared of ever making a mistake.

1362
01:17:28,600 --> 01:17:31,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I would rather that we bias toward action

1363
01:17:32,000 --> 01:17:34,799
Speaker 2: when we have a crisis like our shortage of housing

1364
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:38,439
Speaker 2: and our affordability crisis that's pushing working families to the brank,

1365
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:41,400
Speaker 2: causing people to leave our state, creating so much stress

1366
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:45,080
Speaker 2: and heartache for folks. Let's bias toward action, particularly when

1367
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 2: you're in an urban area, Let's build where.

1368
01:17:47,840 --> 01:17:49,840
Speaker 1: Are you and look, one of the first places that

1369
01:17:49,920 --> 01:17:54,439
Speaker 1: I learned about eighty us. Okay, these is San Jose.

1370
01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:56,559
Speaker 1: I feel, I guess you guys were on the cutting

1371
01:17:56,640 --> 01:18:02,840
Speaker 1: edge of this. I'm of mixed minds on this. I

1372
01:18:02,960 --> 01:18:06,080
Speaker 1: just think that that that I can see the I

1373
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:10,880
Speaker 1: could see the uh, the immediate utility of it and

1374
01:18:11,120 --> 01:18:14,320
Speaker 1: the potential like do we have I think we need

1375
01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:17,160
Speaker 1: to update our landlord laws. We need to update our

1376
01:18:17,400 --> 01:18:20,360
Speaker 1: There's going to be some issues that come into play

1377
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:23,760
Speaker 1: about Okay, who's got access to a driveway, who's got

1378
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:27,200
Speaker 1: access to a yard? Right? Do you think we are

1379
01:18:27,320 --> 01:18:29,639
Speaker 1: we have enough up to date laws to protect both

1380
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:33,519
Speaker 1: tenants and owners here when it comes to these ad us.

1381
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 2: My senses, in California, we do. I mean I'm always

1382
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:41,519
Speaker 2: open to learning more and changing my opinion based on

1383
01:18:41,520 --> 01:18:44,360
Speaker 2: on real data. I mean, we have very strong renter

1384
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:46,400
Speaker 2: or tenant protections.

1385
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 1: Some might might argue though, that they're so strong that

1386
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:53,200
Speaker 1: they're anti owners, and yeah, that you got to have

1387
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:55,919
Speaker 1: a balance here that that if you have a problem

1388
01:18:56,000 --> 01:18:57,880
Speaker 1: tenant and you know it's going to take you three

1389
01:18:57,920 --> 01:19:01,120
Speaker 1: years to deal with it, that's a big So then

1390
01:19:01,120 --> 01:19:01,720
Speaker 1: that's too much.

1391
01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:04,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think particularly so if it's a unit

1392
01:19:04,280 --> 01:19:06,120
Speaker 2: in your backyard. Now, a lot of people who are

1393
01:19:06,120 --> 01:19:08,880
Speaker 2: building eighty use or building them for family members. But

1394
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:11,559
Speaker 2: I mean, I hear you. I do think, you know,

1395
01:19:11,760 --> 01:19:13,880
Speaker 2: just common sense wise, we can go look at the

1396
01:19:13,960 --> 01:19:16,880
Speaker 2: law and the process and try to get better data

1397
01:19:16,920 --> 01:19:20,880
Speaker 2: on this. But if you've built an accessory, dwelling unit

1398
01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:24,800
Speaker 2: and an in law unit in your backyard and somebody's

1399
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:27,679
Speaker 2: not paying the rent or there being a bad actor,

1400
01:19:27,880 --> 01:19:30,280
Speaker 2: and this is you know, your yard, your home, your

1401
01:19:30,320 --> 01:19:34,520
Speaker 2: primary residence, I do think you need the ability to

1402
01:19:34,560 --> 01:19:37,360
Speaker 2: tell the person that they that they've got to vacate

1403
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:39,559
Speaker 2: to promise that being said, you need some kind of

1404
01:19:39,560 --> 01:19:41,760
Speaker 2: greatest period for the person bill to pack up and go. So,

1405
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:44,800
Speaker 2: you know, striking that balance again kind of what the

1406
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:47,640
Speaker 2: job of policymakers is. I will tell you though, in

1407
01:19:47,720 --> 01:19:52,280
Speaker 2: a city like San Jose that is relatively suburban and sprawling,

1408
01:19:52,360 --> 01:19:55,479
Speaker 2: you've said, you've been here, it's it's you know, a

1409
01:19:55,520 --> 01:19:59,160
Speaker 2: lot of single family home neighborhoods eighty years are quite popular.

1410
01:19:59,200 --> 01:20:02,719
Speaker 2: In fact, twenty noticed a lot of mom Yeah, twenty

1411
01:20:02,760 --> 01:20:04,880
Speaker 2: two percent of the new housing built in San Jose

1412
01:20:05,040 --> 01:20:08,760
Speaker 2: every year are is a to us and they give

1413
01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:14,760
Speaker 2: people flexibility they can have a family member. You have

1414
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:18,040
Speaker 2: your grandparent or your child returning from college who needs

1415
01:20:18,080 --> 01:20:19,840
Speaker 2: to save up in order to be able to break

1416
01:20:19,880 --> 01:20:23,200
Speaker 2: into the housing market. They can create income for folks.

1417
01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:25,760
Speaker 2: So that flexibility has been really valuable to a lot

1418
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:27,320
Speaker 2: of families that I think we should encourage it.

1419
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:31,360
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about affordability. And I'm gonna ask

1420
01:20:31,520 --> 01:20:34,400
Speaker 1: probably a question that you may think is a gotcha,

1421
01:20:34,400 --> 01:20:37,520
Speaker 1: it's not meant to be. Are taxes too high in California?

1422
01:20:38,160 --> 01:20:40,679
Speaker 1: Are there too many taxes or taxes too high? Or

1423
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 1: is hey, it's California, welcome. You know, it's a privilege

1424
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:48,040
Speaker 1: to live here, and you know something's cost more.

1425
01:20:50,120 --> 01:20:53,639
Speaker 2: Taxes are really are high. We have the second highest

1426
01:20:53,680 --> 01:20:59,240
Speaker 2: taxes in the country. They are mostly very progressive, which

1427
01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:01,880
Speaker 2: I support. Those who make more, earn more, do better

1428
01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:04,240
Speaker 2: in society should pay more back into the pot to

1429
01:21:04,240 --> 01:21:07,160
Speaker 2: help everybody else. So I don't mind at all. In fact,

1430
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:08,960
Speaker 2: I very much support the fact that we have one

1431
01:21:08,960 --> 01:21:12,799
Speaker 2: of the most progressive tax structures in the country. In fact,

1432
01:21:13,400 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 2: the only I would say about that is is it

1433
01:21:15,360 --> 01:21:17,719
Speaker 2: is a bit of a risk and vulnerability. Forty percent

1434
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:19,760
Speaker 2: of our in we charge an income tax. It's a

1435
01:21:19,800 --> 01:21:23,240
Speaker 2: major source of revenue for the state. Forty percent of

1436
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:25,960
Speaker 2: that revenue, sometimes up to fifty percent comes from the

1437
01:21:26,000 --> 01:21:28,360
Speaker 2: top one percent of earners each year. So we are

1438
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:33,360
Speaker 2: very concentrated and vulnerable to capital flight because it's the

1439
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:35,800
Speaker 2: top earners who pay most of the revenue. We also

1440
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:38,360
Speaker 2: have some of the oddly enough, some of the most

1441
01:21:38,400 --> 01:21:41,360
Speaker 2: regressive taxes. And so if anything where I would look

1442
01:21:41,720 --> 01:21:44,599
Speaker 2: to maybe, you know, modify things as something like our

1443
01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:48,240
Speaker 2: gas tax. So wealthier folks are buying evs and are

1444
01:21:48,240 --> 01:21:50,400
Speaker 2: sort of opting out of gas tax by doing that,

1445
01:21:50,439 --> 01:21:52,320
Speaker 2: and that's a good thing. We want EV adoption, we

1446
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:55,120
Speaker 2: want cleaner air, I'm all for it. But what's happening

1447
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:58,760
Speaker 2: by default is those who can't forty evs and are

1448
01:21:58,800 --> 01:22:03,240
Speaker 2: still driving gas powered vehicles and driving longer distances, which

1449
01:22:03,320 --> 01:22:06,840
Speaker 2: also happens to correlate with lower income communities like the

1450
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:09,840
Speaker 2: one I grew up in. Rural communities in particular, are

1451
01:22:09,920 --> 01:22:14,400
Speaker 2: paying the disproportionate share of the nation's highest gas taxes

1452
01:22:14,760 --> 01:22:18,720
Speaker 2: that go to maintaining the roads. So that needs to

1453
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:21,240
Speaker 2: be right sized. EV owners should be paying their fair

1454
01:22:21,320 --> 01:22:22,759
Speaker 2: share to maintain the roads.

1455
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:26,760
Speaker 1: What is the what is the calculation now I remember, well,

1456
01:22:26,800 --> 01:22:30,720
Speaker 1: I remember about ten years fifteen years ago now, the

1457
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:35,320
Speaker 1: state of Oregon piloted a program that would sort of

1458
01:22:35,640 --> 01:22:38,800
Speaker 1: get rid of that move from a gas tax to

1459
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:42,800
Speaker 1: a user basically road user fee. And the idea was

1460
01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:45,280
Speaker 1: you would get charged per mile that you used. And

1461
01:22:45,360 --> 01:22:48,920
Speaker 1: of course the libertarian crowd went bonkers, Right, what do

1462
01:22:49,000 --> 01:22:51,479
Speaker 1: you mean that's you know, privacy and all this stuff.

1463
01:22:52,240 --> 01:22:57,840
Speaker 1: But I understood that. I understood the the larger idea, Well,

1464
01:22:57,880 --> 01:22:59,880
Speaker 1: we've got to figure out not everybody's going to be

1465
01:23:00,439 --> 01:23:03,840
Speaker 1: buying gas, so how do we How do we do this?

1466
01:23:04,000 --> 01:23:06,880
Speaker 1: And I know, you know some states you get charged

1467
01:23:06,960 --> 01:23:10,320
Speaker 1: an annual fee if you're an electric vehicle. That's this

1468
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:13,559
Speaker 1: what what should what is your plan to do this?

1469
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:15,439
Speaker 1: How would you level the playing field here?

1470
01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:18,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, my preference would be just when it comes to

1471
01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:22,080
Speaker 2: the road maintenance revenue, that we that we just do

1472
01:23:22,120 --> 01:23:24,800
Speaker 2: a per vehicle fee, because a mileage tax is also

1473
01:23:24,880 --> 01:23:26,400
Speaker 2: regressive like a gas tax.

1474
01:23:26,640 --> 01:23:29,400
Speaker 1: It really when you're what you just mentioned, when you know,

1475
01:23:29,800 --> 01:23:32,280
Speaker 1: a working class person may have to drive more because

1476
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:33,719
Speaker 1: they're a side hustle or whatever.

1477
01:23:33,800 --> 01:23:35,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had to drive. I had to go about

1478
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:37,639
Speaker 2: two hours to get to a really good high school

1479
01:23:37,720 --> 01:23:39,760
Speaker 2: from my little town, and my parents drove an hour

1480
01:23:39,760 --> 01:23:41,679
Speaker 2: and a half the other direction to get to their jobs.

1481
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:43,880
Speaker 2: So I just I think a flat fee. Now we

1482
01:23:43,920 --> 01:23:46,519
Speaker 2: do have a fee. We have a flat fee for evs,

1483
01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:49,559
Speaker 2: but when you look at what's actually paid, it is

1484
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:52,360
Speaker 2: set way too low. Our EV owners are paying on

1485
01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:55,599
Speaker 2: the order of one hundred dollars a year. Are working

1486
01:23:55,600 --> 01:23:58,720
Speaker 2: class families driving a gas powered vehicle or contributing over

1487
01:23:58,840 --> 01:24:01,760
Speaker 2: three hundred per year to the rest? I would just

1488
01:24:01,760 --> 01:24:04,160
Speaker 2: write size that. But look overall, let me answer your

1489
01:24:04,200 --> 01:24:05,000
Speaker 2: bigger question on.

1490
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:07,920
Speaker 1: Tax about the tax bill. Yeah, the average California.

1491
01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:12,600
Speaker 2: Is it's high. We've also locked in a lot of

1492
01:24:12,680 --> 01:24:16,600
Speaker 2: expenditures and commitments we have, we have pension liabilities, we

1493
01:24:16,680 --> 01:24:20,280
Speaker 2: have a lot of infrastructure to maintain. My goal right

1494
01:24:20,320 --> 01:24:24,080
Speaker 2: now is and as governor, my goal would not be

1495
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:27,599
Speaker 2: too would be explicitly not to raise or lower. Maybe

1496
01:24:27,600 --> 01:24:29,200
Speaker 2: we can write size to deal with some of the

1497
01:24:29,360 --> 01:24:32,519
Speaker 2: regressive taxation. My goal is to make sure we spend better.

1498
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:36,840
Speaker 2: I think we can get twenty thirty percent more impact

1499
01:24:36,880 --> 01:24:40,040
Speaker 2: in terms of outcomes out of the dollars we're spending.

1500
01:24:40,360 --> 01:24:43,960
Speaker 2: And what I worry about in California is a complacency

1501
01:24:44,080 --> 01:24:48,160
Speaker 2: that has set in where Sacramento, our state government is

1502
01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:54,960
Speaker 2: basically captured by highly organized interests. We have single party rule,

1503
01:24:55,080 --> 01:24:59,080
Speaker 2: my party. We have controlled every statewide office for fifteen

1504
01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:03,519
Speaker 2: years now, super majority in the legislature, the governor's office

1505
01:25:03,560 --> 01:25:07,080
Speaker 2: and so forth. And every year revenue is going up

1506
01:25:07,280 --> 01:25:10,920
Speaker 2: far faster than population growth or average income, and we're

1507
01:25:10,960 --> 01:25:13,759
Speaker 2: not getting better outcomes. I mean, we are literally spending

1508
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:16,720
Speaker 2: seventy five percent more than six years ago, and not

1509
01:25:16,920 --> 01:25:19,760
Speaker 2: one outcome that matters is better. The housing costs are

1510
01:25:19,800 --> 01:25:24,920
Speaker 2: as unaffordable as ever, second hized energy costs, highest unemployment rate,

1511
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:29,240
Speaker 2: highest poverty rate. So of our public schools are lagging

1512
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:34,519
Speaker 2: behind Mississippi and Louisiana and educating low income students. So

1513
01:25:34,560 --> 01:25:38,720
Speaker 2: we just we have got to demand better before we

1514
01:25:39,000 --> 01:25:49,400
Speaker 2: even think about asking people to pay more.

1515
01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:53,360
Speaker 1: There's some great pilot projects that they're doing down there.

1516
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:57,280
Speaker 1: Kim Barksdale, former founder of Netscape, for what it's worth,

1517
01:25:58,080 --> 01:26:01,160
Speaker 1: has done some innovative work down there with with phonics,

1518
01:26:01,200 --> 01:26:05,759
Speaker 1: with teacher training. It is the young early reader stuff

1519
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:10,120
Speaker 1: has been terrific in Mississippi, Louisiana, Alabama. So definitely take

1520
01:26:10,120 --> 01:26:13,080
Speaker 1: a look at that. Look there's I look again. I'm

1521
01:26:13,120 --> 01:26:16,360
Speaker 1: not here to force a fight on the force a

1522
01:26:16,400 --> 01:26:19,000
Speaker 1: fight on you, or force you to criticize somebody. But

1523
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:24,519
Speaker 1: that's anplicit criticism of the last two democratic governors a

1524
01:26:24,520 --> 01:26:27,280
Speaker 1: little bit or certainly democratic governance. So let me ask

1525
01:26:27,320 --> 01:26:29,680
Speaker 1: you this on Gavin Newsom, what's he gotten right and

1526
01:26:29,720 --> 01:26:30,639
Speaker 1: what's he gotten wrong?

1527
01:26:33,120 --> 01:26:36,720
Speaker 2: But I think what the governor has understood and been

1528
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:40,880
Speaker 2: willing to push on is in certain areas that we

1529
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:43,560
Speaker 2: need reform, and he's laid some of the groundwork. And

1530
01:26:43,640 --> 01:26:45,519
Speaker 2: so let me tell you, we all I want to

1531
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:48,519
Speaker 2: just be sure to give him give him credit. On education,

1532
01:26:48,640 --> 01:26:51,960
Speaker 2: there's a lack of accountability. He's proposed that we align

1533
01:26:51,960 --> 01:26:54,240
Speaker 2: accountability all the way up to the governor's office. Right now,

1534
01:26:54,240 --> 01:26:58,280
Speaker 2: we have a separate superintendent of schools statewide who's elected

1535
01:26:58,320 --> 01:27:01,200
Speaker 2: and runs the Department of Education. The governor does not

1536
01:27:01,280 --> 01:27:04,639
Speaker 2: have executive authority over the education department. Huge problem. We're

1537
01:27:04,640 --> 01:27:07,040
Speaker 2: one of just a dozen states who has that structure.

1538
01:27:07,040 --> 01:27:08,960
Speaker 1: Would you like to get rid of the elected state

1539
01:27:09,000 --> 01:27:11,479
Speaker 1: public school instructor? Do you think that that's an office

1540
01:27:11,479 --> 01:27:13,200
Speaker 1: that probably shouldn't be an elected position.

1541
01:27:14,080 --> 01:27:17,200
Speaker 2: I don't know that it matters as long as basically

1542
01:27:17,200 --> 01:27:20,200
Speaker 2: what Governor Newsom has proposed, which I agree with, is

1543
01:27:20,320 --> 01:27:24,560
Speaker 2: keep the office, but have it be a sort of watchdog,

1544
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:27,920
Speaker 2: umbudsman and advocate for parents. Don't have it be the

1545
01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:29,920
Speaker 2: executive authority over an entire or.

1546
01:27:29,880 --> 01:27:32,360
Speaker 1: Like a comptroller. More like the way a comptroller works

1547
01:27:32,400 --> 01:27:33,799
Speaker 1: with finances right here.

1548
01:27:34,520 --> 01:27:37,280
Speaker 2: Monitor the spending, to be the advocate for the parents

1549
01:27:37,320 --> 01:27:40,000
Speaker 2: and students. But the governor is the chief executive of

1550
01:27:40,040 --> 01:27:42,320
Speaker 2: the state and the Department of Education on a report

1551
01:27:42,360 --> 01:27:45,599
Speaker 2: directly up into the governor. So that's one I totally

1552
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:48,479
Speaker 2: agree with. He sees the need for reform there. On housing,

1553
01:27:48,520 --> 01:27:51,400
Speaker 2: we talked earlier. The Governor and I are completely aligned

1554
01:27:51,400 --> 01:27:54,559
Speaker 2: on the importance of interim solutions. In fact, it's his

1555
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:58,479
Speaker 2: state budgets that have helped fund the solutions that we've

1556
01:27:58,600 --> 01:28:01,080
Speaker 2: championed in San Jose. Now we've done it faster, better,

1557
01:28:01,200 --> 01:28:03,559
Speaker 2: more cost effectively than any other city in the state.

1558
01:28:04,000 --> 01:28:08,439
Speaker 2: But we're aligned there. He also recognizes the need for

1559
01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:12,840
Speaker 2: an alternative on treatment for addiction for mental health, put

1560
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:17,679
Speaker 2: forward things like care Court Proposition one, which expands treatment beds.

1561
01:28:20,240 --> 01:28:23,160
Speaker 2: The area where I think we differ is I am

1562
01:28:23,600 --> 01:28:29,479
Speaker 2: very I'm very execution focused, and I have been willing

1563
01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:33,280
Speaker 2: to take on members of my own party, highly organized

1564
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:36,040
Speaker 2: interests in some cases disagree with the governor, the most

1565
01:28:36,200 --> 01:28:39,760
Speaker 2: prominent example being Prop thirty six, where I believe that

1566
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:44,120
Speaker 2: if someone is repeatedly committing crime due to addiction, at

1567
01:28:44,120 --> 01:28:47,639
Speaker 2: some point they should be given a clear choice between

1568
01:28:47,680 --> 01:28:50,840
Speaker 2: treatment and jail. And that was an area where he

1569
01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:55,120
Speaker 2: and I just just fundamentally disagreed. That's a philosophic difference.

1570
01:28:55,479 --> 01:28:57,479
Speaker 2: I've had a family member who spent time on the

1571
01:28:57,479 --> 01:28:59,519
Speaker 2: streets with addictions, so I maybe just have a different

1572
01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:02,479
Speaker 2: perspective on the level of intervention that's needed to save

1573
01:29:02,520 --> 01:29:07,599
Speaker 2: someone's life. But look, I think he's had a lot

1574
01:29:07,640 --> 01:29:10,280
Speaker 2: of the right directionally, a lot of the right ideas.

1575
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:15,000
Speaker 2: My focus, though, it will be on following through and

1576
01:29:15,040 --> 01:29:18,439
Speaker 2: making sure people actually use care, court actually implement Prop

1577
01:29:18,479 --> 01:29:22,040
Speaker 2: thirty six, build those beds. And we're when our execution

1578
01:29:22,240 --> 01:29:25,240
Speaker 2: is bad, when we're too slow and too expensive to

1579
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:28,360
Speaker 2: execute a good idea. We have to be willing to

1580
01:29:28,360 --> 01:29:30,720
Speaker 2: do something I haven't seen anyone in Sacramento do enough

1581
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:35,000
Speaker 2: of in recent years, which is take on the interest

1582
01:29:35,120 --> 01:29:39,120
Speaker 2: groups the highly organized interests, from trial lawyers to public

1583
01:29:39,160 --> 01:29:42,720
Speaker 2: sector unions to corporate interests who have a veto right

1584
01:29:42,720 --> 01:29:45,080
Speaker 2: now in Sacramento, and this is kind of becoming the

1585
01:29:45,080 --> 01:29:48,600
Speaker 2: case in our democracy everywhere. Highly organized interests have a

1586
01:29:48,720 --> 01:29:51,680
Speaker 2: veto over change because they're so organized and they don't

1587
01:29:51,680 --> 01:29:53,719
Speaker 2: want anything to change. They want to protect a status

1588
01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:57,639
Speaker 2: quo that protects them. So it's the vetoocracy that I'm

1589
01:29:57,640 --> 01:30:00,479
Speaker 2: worried about, and I just haven't seen anybody challenge that

1590
01:30:00,520 --> 01:30:01,480
Speaker 2: because it's painful.

1591
01:30:02,280 --> 01:30:06,320
Speaker 1: How much do you think the governor's been stifled by

1592
01:30:07,200 --> 01:30:09,600
Speaker 1: a by the super majority in the legislature.

1593
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:16,679
Speaker 2: Well, it doesn't help. But look, I'm as a as

1594
01:30:16,840 --> 01:30:20,040
Speaker 2: you know, my own my own person a different everybody is,

1595
01:30:20,080 --> 01:30:25,760
Speaker 2: everybody's different. I would be more active in putting legislators

1596
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:31,280
Speaker 2: on the spot and demanding results and getting behind candidates

1597
01:30:32,160 --> 01:30:37,080
Speaker 2: for the legislature who reflected a common sense, problem solving mentality.

1598
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:38,240
Speaker 1: And like, so if you get elected governor, you're going

1599
01:30:38,320 --> 01:30:42,879
Speaker 1: to be a little more active in state legislative races,

1600
01:30:43,040 --> 01:30:44,080
Speaker 1: both Assembly and Senate.

1601
01:30:44,439 --> 01:30:49,160
Speaker 2: I think we need we need a significant change in

1602
01:30:49,200 --> 01:30:53,200
Speaker 2: the political culture of California, one that is that is

1603
01:30:53,240 --> 01:30:56,679
Speaker 2: really centered on accountability for outcomes. I say this because

1604
01:30:56,680 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 2: this has been my experience as mayor of San Jose,

1605
01:31:00,400 --> 01:31:04,400
Speaker 2: where I have had to overcome the objections of highly

1606
01:31:04,520 --> 01:31:07,320
Speaker 2: organized interests who liked the city budget being spent the

1607
01:31:07,320 --> 01:31:09,479
Speaker 2: way that it was spent. I've had to overcome the

1608
01:31:09,520 --> 01:31:15,120
Speaker 2: opposition of colleagues on my city council who also were

1609
01:31:15,160 --> 01:31:17,640
Speaker 2: wedded to the same old way of doing things. And

1610
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:20,200
Speaker 2: if you want to create change, it should always be

1611
01:31:20,320 --> 01:31:24,280
Speaker 2: rooted in solid core values and a clear sense of

1612
01:31:24,280 --> 01:31:26,559
Speaker 2: where you're trying to go. But you have to be

1613
01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:31,400
Speaker 2: willing to take on the big fights. And our inability

1614
01:31:31,439 --> 01:31:34,680
Speaker 2: to take on the big fights and solve our problems

1615
01:31:34,720 --> 01:31:38,040
Speaker 2: despite spending more and more is frankly giving a lot

1616
01:31:38,040 --> 01:31:43,320
Speaker 2: of ammunition to the MAGA movement, to a president that

1617
01:31:43,479 --> 01:31:46,439
Speaker 2: thinks that might makes right. We are, you know, we

1618
01:31:46,520 --> 01:31:49,839
Speaker 2: talk about being the resistance and pushing back and fighting

1619
01:31:49,920 --> 01:31:55,240
Speaker 2: against trump Ism, and yet we're not minding the story here.

1620
01:31:55,240 --> 01:31:57,720
Speaker 2: If we don't fix our problems and show that our

1621
01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:02,240
Speaker 2: values actually deliver results for working people in practice, we

1622
01:32:02,280 --> 01:32:03,680
Speaker 2: don't have any credibility.

1623
01:32:05,680 --> 01:32:09,160
Speaker 1: The best way, the best case against MAGA movement or

1624
01:32:09,160 --> 01:32:11,040
Speaker 1: trump Ism is governance.

1625
01:32:11,880 --> 01:32:14,799
Speaker 2: The best resistence. Yea, the best resistances results.

1626
01:32:15,200 --> 01:32:19,479
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I I uh as somebody who considers themselves

1627
01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:22,639
Speaker 1: an incrementalist and a pragmatist. That's you know, I understand,

1628
01:32:22,720 --> 01:32:28,240
Speaker 1: I understand the passionate frustration that's out there in some

1629
01:32:28,280 --> 01:32:30,640
Speaker 1: forms of MAGA movement. Not every you know, there's some

1630
01:32:30,800 --> 01:32:33,120
Speaker 1: that are there for their own reasons, but there are

1631
01:32:33,120 --> 01:32:36,680
Speaker 1: others that are frustrated with the system. Hey, you know,

1632
01:32:36,720 --> 01:32:38,639
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people that I think find themselves

1633
01:32:38,680 --> 01:32:40,519
Speaker 1: in that camp. All right, I mean, let's land the

1634
01:32:40,560 --> 01:32:44,120
Speaker 1: plane here and let's talk about the elephant in the

1635
01:32:44,200 --> 01:32:46,719
Speaker 1: room or the donkeys in the room, and the math

1636
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:52,280
Speaker 1: problem that the jungle primary is creating, the pressure that

1637
01:32:52,320 --> 01:32:56,719
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're feeling many Democratic candidates running for governor

1638
01:32:56,840 --> 01:32:59,800
Speaker 1: feeling because you've got two Republicans who both have just

1639
01:32:59,800 --> 01:33:02,880
Speaker 1: an enough traction that the likelihood they could take the

1640
01:33:02,920 --> 01:33:06,479
Speaker 1: two slots be one two and end up being you know,

1641
01:33:06,600 --> 01:33:10,439
Speaker 1: it's Steve Hilton and Chad Biaco, right, and there's you know,

1642
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:12,679
Speaker 1: this might be only forty percent of the state once

1643
01:33:12,680 --> 01:33:15,960
Speaker 1: a Republican. Sixty percent may want a Democrat, but their

1644
01:33:16,080 --> 01:33:18,680
Speaker 1: choice may not be on the ballot because of so

1645
01:33:18,840 --> 01:33:22,839
Speaker 1: many Democrats splitting the vote. How much of a concern

1646
01:33:23,960 --> 01:33:27,240
Speaker 1: is this to you, and how mindful of you are

1647
01:33:27,560 --> 01:33:27,960
Speaker 1: of this?

1648
01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:32,639
Speaker 2: You know, Jeuck To be honest with you, I am

1649
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:35,000
Speaker 2: not that concerned about I think there's been a lot

1650
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:37,440
Speaker 2: of inks billed on this. I think it is overblown.

1651
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:39,800
Speaker 2: Most voters are not paying attention to have People are

1652
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:42,759
Speaker 2: busy doing their jobs, paying their bills, raising their kids.

1653
01:33:43,120 --> 01:33:46,720
Speaker 2: As voters start to tune in, you will see some consolidation.

1654
01:33:46,920 --> 01:33:51,080
Speaker 2: Right now, undecided is beating everyone, and it's overwhelmingly Yeah,

1655
01:33:51,640 --> 01:33:55,800
Speaker 2: and it's overwhelmingly Democratic and independent voters who are undecided.

1656
01:33:56,120 --> 01:33:56,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1657
01:33:56,360 --> 01:34:00,280
Speaker 2: When Republicans see name the name on the ballot with

1658
01:34:00,360 --> 01:34:02,280
Speaker 2: Republican next to it in a state where they haven't

1659
01:34:02,280 --> 01:34:04,600
Speaker 2: won statewide office in fifteen years, they say, yeah, I

1660
01:34:04,640 --> 01:34:07,720
Speaker 2: like that guy who's a Republican. So we have a

1661
01:34:07,760 --> 01:34:12,320
Speaker 2: lot of time for this field to consolidate. And I

1662
01:34:12,439 --> 01:34:17,800
Speaker 2: jumped in because no one was saying what's wrong with

1663
01:34:17,840 --> 01:34:20,280
Speaker 2: the state of California. Everybody in my party wants to

1664
01:34:20,360 --> 01:34:23,080
Speaker 2: simply blame somebody else for the problem. And I think

1665
01:34:23,120 --> 01:34:26,320
Speaker 2: as Democrats, we have to remember that the best resistance

1666
01:34:26,439 --> 01:34:29,599
Speaker 2: is delivering results, and we have to take ownership of

1667
01:34:29,640 --> 01:34:33,679
Speaker 2: our public policy shortcomings and be really honest with voters

1668
01:34:34,360 --> 01:34:37,559
Speaker 2: that we can do better. But it's going to mean

1669
01:34:37,600 --> 01:34:39,800
Speaker 2: taking on the interest within our own party. It's going

1670
01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:42,240
Speaker 2: to mean changing things in a way that won't always

1671
01:34:42,280 --> 01:34:46,000
Speaker 2: be popular. And so I just I think I thought

1672
01:34:46,000 --> 01:34:48,280
Speaker 2: it was critically important to get into this race, to

1673
01:34:48,360 --> 01:34:51,960
Speaker 2: speak to all of those undecided and disillusioned voters. There

1674
01:34:51,960 --> 01:34:55,280
Speaker 2: has been very low enthusiasm for the field up until now.

1675
01:34:55,280 --> 01:34:58,040
Speaker 2: People are now starting to tune in, and I'm saying

1676
01:34:58,040 --> 01:34:59,960
Speaker 2: something very different, and I think we're going to see

1677
01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:03,839
Speaker 2: as we marched Sport election day, is people hear that message.

1678
01:35:03,880 --> 01:35:05,640
Speaker 2: I think it's going to resonate. I'm seeing that as

1679
01:35:05,640 --> 01:35:07,759
Speaker 2: I travel around the state. I was down on the border,

1680
01:35:08,080 --> 01:35:10,599
Speaker 2: you know, looking at the crisis of ross sewage flowing

1681
01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:12,840
Speaker 2: into the country through the two on a river. I

1682
01:35:12,880 --> 01:35:15,559
Speaker 2: walked a skid row and we talked about the failures

1683
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 2: on homelessness Alta Dina and the Palisades and our issues

1684
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:21,519
Speaker 2: with with how slow and expensive it is to build housing.

1685
01:35:21,760 --> 01:35:23,519
Speaker 2: As we go around the state and talk to people

1686
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:26,080
Speaker 2: about what's broken and why and how to fix it,

1687
01:35:26,320 --> 01:35:30,160
Speaker 2: We're getting an enthusiastic response. My biggest challenge is most

1688
01:35:30,200 --> 01:35:32,240
Speaker 2: Californias still don't know who I am. So thank you

1689
01:35:32,240 --> 01:35:33,200
Speaker 2: for leading me on the show.

1690
01:35:33,280 --> 01:35:36,639
Speaker 1: No, I get it. Look, you're you're doing something that's

1691
01:35:36,680 --> 01:35:40,000
Speaker 1: quite difficult, which is to run from a merit one,

1692
01:35:40,120 --> 01:35:43,080
Speaker 1: a singular mayor seat right anytime. I mean, it's just

1693
01:35:43,280 --> 01:35:46,439
Speaker 1: only only thing harder, I would argue is congressional is

1694
01:35:46,479 --> 01:35:50,000
Speaker 1: running from a congressional seat. But let me let me

1695
01:35:50,040 --> 01:35:52,200
Speaker 1: ask it, me, let me ask you this. You know

1696
01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:56,719
Speaker 1: you're look, I'm somebody, I'm I'm I think both parties

1697
01:35:56,720 --> 01:36:00,519
Speaker 1: are broken. I'm somebody who thinks it. Frankly, the only

1698
01:36:00,560 --> 01:36:05,639
Speaker 1: way they're going to fix themselves is if they if

1699
01:36:05,680 --> 01:36:07,920
Speaker 1: an independent of some sort or for a movement of

1700
01:36:07,960 --> 01:36:09,760
Speaker 1: some sort of sort of you know, voters demand it.

1701
01:36:09,800 --> 01:36:12,679
Speaker 1: There's a reason why the fastest growing party is no party.

1702
01:36:13,080 --> 01:36:14,519
Speaker 1: And I don't care what state in the Union you

1703
01:36:14,520 --> 01:36:17,679
Speaker 1: go to, California is no exception, particularly with voters under

1704
01:36:17,680 --> 01:36:21,840
Speaker 1: the age of thirty, you know. And to me, it's

1705
01:36:21,880 --> 01:36:24,320
Speaker 1: pretty logical. Right, they've watched this, they've grown up in

1706
01:36:24,320 --> 01:36:27,080
Speaker 1: this polarized environment, and they're like, neither party seems to

1707
01:36:27,080 --> 01:36:29,880
Speaker 1: want to solve a problem. They're just reaction being They're

1708
01:36:29,920 --> 01:36:33,120
Speaker 1: just reactionary politics. Why are you staying? Why did you

1709
01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:34,760
Speaker 1: stay as a Democrat? You could have run as a

1710
01:36:34,800 --> 01:36:37,600
Speaker 1: no party candidate, and in some ways you are advocating

1711
01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:41,440
Speaker 1: for me. It sounds like a sort of more independent

1712
01:36:42,160 --> 01:36:45,160
Speaker 1: you know, maybe it's small I capital D is what

1713
01:36:45,320 --> 01:36:49,760
Speaker 1: you're going for. But why you know that the D

1714
01:36:49,920 --> 01:36:53,800
Speaker 1: next to your name? Some people who want change will think, well,

1715
01:36:54,160 --> 01:36:57,519
Speaker 1: we've had Democratic governors sixteen years in a row now,

1716
01:36:57,800 --> 01:37:00,719
Speaker 1: which is I'm trying to the last time California went

1717
01:37:00,920 --> 01:37:03,160
Speaker 1: longer than that? I think you have to go back

1718
01:37:03,640 --> 01:37:09,439
Speaker 1: to the thirties. Do you worry that the D next

1719
01:37:09,479 --> 01:37:11,559
Speaker 1: to your name is not going to indicate to voters

1720
01:37:11,560 --> 01:37:12,599
Speaker 1: that you're a change candidate.

1721
01:37:14,400 --> 01:37:17,639
Speaker 2: Look, I'm a I'm a different kind of Democrat who

1722
01:37:18,640 --> 01:37:22,680
Speaker 2: reserves the right to think, Uh, you know, think for myself,

1723
01:37:23,400 --> 01:37:26,760
Speaker 2: be independent in my thinking about policy issues and solutions.

1724
01:37:27,280 --> 01:37:31,880
Speaker 2: But I still believe the Democratic Party is fixable. I

1725
01:37:31,880 --> 01:37:36,880
Speaker 2: grew up in a party whose core values I deeply

1726
01:37:36,960 --> 01:37:41,200
Speaker 2: identify with. I grew up in a working class community where,

1727
01:37:41,400 --> 01:37:43,880
Speaker 2: you know, my folks and most people we lived around

1728
01:37:44,200 --> 01:37:47,840
Speaker 2: were generally paycheck to paycheck, and when the party gets

1729
01:37:47,920 --> 01:37:50,760
Speaker 2: back to its roots and gets back to solving problems,

1730
01:37:51,040 --> 01:37:55,519
Speaker 2: we expand opportunity for people. We create better schools, we

1731
01:37:55,600 --> 01:37:59,240
Speaker 2: build infrastructure, We make sure the economy is inclusive and

1732
01:37:59,280 --> 01:38:02,040
Speaker 2: that people don't left behind. We make sure people have

1733
01:38:02,120 --> 01:38:07,760
Speaker 2: access to healthcare. But we need to upgrade the platform

1734
01:38:08,120 --> 01:38:10,360
Speaker 2: because we're still trying to do things the way we

1735
01:38:10,360 --> 01:38:12,639
Speaker 2: did in the twentieth century, where the answer to every

1736
01:38:12,720 --> 01:38:15,479
Speaker 2: problem is if we just have more tax revenue and

1737
01:38:15,479 --> 01:38:17,800
Speaker 2: more programs, we're going to fix it. And at some

1738
01:38:17,840 --> 01:38:21,720
Speaker 2: point we've got to make government smarter, more responsive, more efficient.

1739
01:38:22,400 --> 01:38:25,040
Speaker 2: We're the party that needs government to work. We believe

1740
01:38:25,120 --> 01:38:27,280
Speaker 2: in government as a force for good. That's why I'm

1741
01:38:27,280 --> 01:38:31,120
Speaker 2: a Democrat. My sense is, you know, many of the

1742
01:38:31,120 --> 01:38:33,160
Speaker 2: folks on the other side of the aisle, if you will,

1743
01:38:34,280 --> 01:38:37,519
Speaker 2: are more interested in just kind of hobbling and shrinking

1744
01:38:37,560 --> 01:38:40,760
Speaker 2: and making government as fall as it can be. And

1745
01:38:40,479 --> 01:38:45,439
Speaker 2: that's kind of an endless debate. But for where I'm at,

1746
01:38:46,160 --> 01:38:49,400
Speaker 2: it's not about making government smaller or bigger. It's especially

1747
01:38:49,439 --> 01:38:51,280
Speaker 2: in a state with the very high tax burden we

1748
01:38:51,320 --> 01:38:54,960
Speaker 2: have in California, let's give people value for their dollars.

1749
01:38:55,000 --> 01:38:58,559
Speaker 2: Let's make sure we're making people's lives better. So I

1750
01:38:58,680 --> 01:39:02,120
Speaker 2: just yeah, I grew up in a Democratic party. I

1751
01:39:02,200 --> 01:39:05,400
Speaker 2: believe in the core values. I think the party is salvagible.

1752
01:39:05,880 --> 01:39:08,120
Speaker 2: But I'm running as a different kind of Democrat to

1753
01:39:08,400 --> 01:39:10,880
Speaker 2: try to make the case for a different kind of politics,

1754
01:39:11,360 --> 01:39:13,880
Speaker 2: whereas by opponents in the race are kind of offering

1755
01:39:13,880 --> 01:39:14,439
Speaker 2: more of the same.

1756
01:39:14,920 --> 01:39:17,519
Speaker 1: No, the only thing, Look, I get what you're trying

1757
01:39:17,560 --> 01:39:20,320
Speaker 1: to do, and my skepticism is not about what you're

1758
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:23,400
Speaker 1: trying to do. My skepticism is in the voters, meaning

1759
01:39:23,520 --> 01:39:27,880
Speaker 1: voters right now are very in the moment, particularly Democratic voters,

1760
01:39:27,920 --> 01:39:32,840
Speaker 1: and they're very frustrated with the current presidential administration, and

1761
01:39:32,880 --> 01:39:37,280
Speaker 1: in many ways, right that's the you know, and they

1762
01:39:37,280 --> 01:39:42,439
Speaker 1: gravitate towards the resistance warriors, particularly in a campaign. You know,

1763
01:39:42,640 --> 01:39:44,760
Speaker 1: I think if you put them in a focus group,

1764
01:39:44,800 --> 01:39:46,760
Speaker 1: a lot of them would agree with many of the

1765
01:39:46,760 --> 01:39:49,599
Speaker 1: premises you're saying. But you know, sometimes this is more

1766
01:39:49,640 --> 01:39:55,639
Speaker 1: emotional than intellectual. That's that's your challenge. Do you think

1767
01:39:55,640 --> 01:40:00,120
Speaker 1: you're going to be you think that you're not. You

1768
01:40:00,160 --> 01:40:04,040
Speaker 1: could come up short because you don't bash Trump enough.

1769
01:40:06,240 --> 01:40:08,960
Speaker 2: I have a lot of faith in the common sense

1770
01:40:09,160 --> 01:40:12,559
Speaker 2: of the voters of the people of California. I've knocked

1771
01:40:12,600 --> 01:40:16,200
Speaker 2: on well over ten thousand doors, I have spoken with

1772
01:40:16,720 --> 01:40:20,240
Speaker 2: tens of thousands of people over my six years now

1773
01:40:20,280 --> 01:40:25,080
Speaker 2: in public life, and I think when people start to

1774
01:40:25,120 --> 01:40:27,800
Speaker 2: tune into this race, hear what the candidates have to say.

1775
01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:34,000
Speaker 2: I think people's common sense intuition on this is that, yes,

1776
01:40:34,200 --> 01:40:36,960
Speaker 2: we want to elect a Democrat who's going to fight

1777
01:40:37,000 --> 01:40:40,000
Speaker 2: for our values nationally, somebody who understands that Trump is

1778
01:40:40,000 --> 01:40:42,920
Speaker 2: an existential threat to our values in our way of life,

1779
01:40:42,920 --> 01:40:45,080
Speaker 2: and we need to fight through the courts and through

1780
01:40:45,080 --> 01:40:48,200
Speaker 2: the bully pulpit and do everything we can to offer

1781
01:40:48,200 --> 01:40:51,920
Speaker 2: an alternative. But I also think they understand. I think

1782
01:40:51,920 --> 01:40:55,800
Speaker 2: this is actually true across Democrats, Independents, and moderate Republicans

1783
01:40:56,120 --> 01:41:00,160
Speaker 2: that in California, for most of our challenges around public school,

1784
01:41:00,320 --> 01:41:03,160
Speaker 2: housing costs, energy costs, we can't blame anybody else. We

1785
01:41:03,200 --> 01:41:06,320
Speaker 2: need to take ownership of our mistakes, We need to

1786
01:41:06,320 --> 01:41:09,160
Speaker 2: take control of our own destiny, and we need to

1787
01:41:09,280 --> 01:41:13,320
Speaker 2: solve our problems because that's actually the best counter to

1788
01:41:13,439 --> 01:41:17,320
Speaker 2: this populist, authoritarian strain in our politics.

1789
01:41:18,040 --> 01:41:20,160
Speaker 1: And I I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you

1790
01:41:20,160 --> 01:41:23,200
Speaker 1: about the so called wealth tax, I given your answer

1791
01:41:23,240 --> 01:41:25,840
Speaker 1: you gave to me earlier about how the income how

1792
01:41:26,280 --> 01:41:30,080
Speaker 1: how much of the income tax revenue comes from a

1793
01:41:30,200 --> 01:41:33,760
Speaker 1: very tiny percentage of Californians. I'm guessing I have an

1794
01:41:33,760 --> 01:41:35,320
Speaker 1: idea of where you are in the wealth tax, but

1795
01:41:36,000 --> 01:41:37,280
Speaker 1: i'll let you articulated.

1796
01:41:38,520 --> 01:41:40,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, my view of it is there are a number

1797
01:41:41,000 --> 01:41:43,320
Speaker 2: of other things we should be doing to make the

1798
01:41:43,360 --> 01:41:46,480
Speaker 2: tax code fairer and to make sure that the wealthiest

1799
01:41:46,600 --> 01:41:49,599
Speaker 2: amongst us pay their fair share. And as you've heard,

1800
01:41:49,600 --> 01:41:54,439
Speaker 2: I'm worried about regressive taxation, income inequality, and opportunity gaps.

1801
01:41:54,439 --> 01:41:56,920
Speaker 2: That's been kind of my whole career is thinking about

1802
01:41:56,920 --> 01:42:02,320
Speaker 2: those issues. I I am not supportive of the wealth

1803
01:42:02,320 --> 01:42:05,200
Speaker 2: tax specifically because I don't think it'll work, and I

1804
01:42:05,240 --> 01:42:10,920
Speaker 2: think it will actually ultimately burden middle class and working

1805
01:42:10,960 --> 01:42:14,759
Speaker 2: families in California because billionaires aren't going to pay this tax.

1806
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:16,639
Speaker 2: Half of them have already left the state. Since it's

1807
01:42:16,680 --> 01:42:19,719
Speaker 2: been proposed, We've seen over a trillion dollars in capital flight.

1808
01:42:20,000 --> 01:42:24,559
Speaker 2: I'm interested in what works, and what works in this

1809
01:42:24,720 --> 01:42:27,320
Speaker 2: case is and I know it's harder, but if we're

1810
01:42:27,320 --> 01:42:29,920
Speaker 2: going to be intellectually honest about this. We need to

1811
01:42:29,920 --> 01:42:32,800
Speaker 2: fight at the federal level over things like what should

1812
01:42:32,800 --> 01:42:35,840
Speaker 2: the capital gains tax rate be. I don't believe you

1813
01:42:35,880 --> 01:42:40,160
Speaker 2: should be able to borrow endlessly against your appreciated assets

1814
01:42:40,200 --> 01:42:42,280
Speaker 2: and never have to pay a capital gain. That's a

1815
01:42:42,320 --> 01:42:44,960
Speaker 2: huge loophole. I don't believe Elon mushould be able to

1816
01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:48,000
Speaker 2: pass five hundred billion dollars worth of appreciated stock onto

1817
01:42:48,040 --> 01:42:51,360
Speaker 2: his kids have it rebased at market rate. The day

1818
01:42:51,360 --> 01:42:53,120
Speaker 2: that they inherit it, they can turn around and sell

1819
01:42:53,160 --> 01:42:55,639
Speaker 2: it and pay no capital gains. That's wrong. So there's

1820
01:42:55,680 --> 01:42:59,120
Speaker 2: a lot we can do to deal with the wealth

1821
01:42:59,240 --> 01:43:03,360
Speaker 2: inequality in this country. But a wealth tax targeting two

1822
01:43:03,479 --> 01:43:07,559
Speaker 2: hundred people in one state is doomed to backfire and

1823
01:43:07,640 --> 01:43:09,679
Speaker 2: mean higher costs for middle class families.

1824
01:43:10,240 --> 01:43:12,160
Speaker 1: There are a lot of Democrats that are against this,

1825
01:43:12,280 --> 01:43:15,160
Speaker 1: but it feels nobody wants to be on the side

1826
01:43:15,160 --> 01:43:17,920
Speaker 1: of defending billionaires. But you're making I mean, there's there's

1827
01:43:17,920 --> 01:43:19,080
Speaker 1: just a fiscal I get it.

1828
01:43:19,000 --> 01:43:21,840
Speaker 2: About defending the billionaires, though, It's just like, I mean,

1829
01:43:21,880 --> 01:43:24,360
Speaker 2: you have to think about the second order effects things,

1830
01:43:24,640 --> 01:43:26,360
Speaker 2: and the truth is, I mean, again, we've got to

1831
01:43:26,360 --> 01:43:28,880
Speaker 2: be honest with people and trust that people. You know,

1832
01:43:29,040 --> 01:43:31,360
Speaker 2: people are smart. People will get it. They will if

1833
01:43:31,400 --> 01:43:34,160
Speaker 2: you are if you respect them enough to tell them

1834
01:43:34,160 --> 01:43:37,160
Speaker 2: the truth. I think you, over time breakthrough and people

1835
01:43:37,240 --> 01:43:40,080
Speaker 2: get it. It won't be the billionaires who pay this tax,

1836
01:43:40,120 --> 01:43:41,720
Speaker 2: if it's past, It'll be the rest of us.

1837
01:43:42,840 --> 01:43:44,639
Speaker 1: Do you worry that's going to be the litmus test

1838
01:43:44,880 --> 01:43:48,160
Speaker 1: between you know, two of your leading opponents are pretty

1839
01:43:48,240 --> 01:43:49,800
Speaker 1: pretty in favor of it, I believe.

1840
01:43:50,320 --> 01:43:53,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they are. They're in favor of a lot

1841
01:43:53,040 --> 01:43:55,080
Speaker 2: of things that don't make sense, frankly, and they'd rather

1842
01:43:55,160 --> 01:43:57,360
Speaker 2: blame Donald Trump for all of our problems. And look,

1843
01:43:57,439 --> 01:44:00,760
Speaker 2: I have deep concern about Donald Trump. We've sued him

1844
01:44:00,760 --> 01:44:03,120
Speaker 2: a number of times in San Jose, and I'll fight

1845
01:44:03,160 --> 01:44:06,920
Speaker 2: them as hard as anybody as governor. But again, if

1846
01:44:06,920 --> 01:44:10,360
Speaker 2: the Democrat Party in California isn't willing to take ownership

1847
01:44:10,360 --> 01:44:12,760
Speaker 2: of our public policy failures and start bringing down the

1848
01:44:12,760 --> 01:44:16,320
Speaker 2: cost of housing, of the cost of energy, and improving

1849
01:44:16,360 --> 01:44:19,840
Speaker 2: our public schools, We've got another thing common. We're going

1850
01:44:19,880 --> 01:44:21,960
Speaker 2: to see a maga movement in California, which is what

1851
01:44:22,080 --> 01:44:25,000
Speaker 2: scares me. So let's actually start owning our problems. And

1852
01:44:25,280 --> 01:44:28,519
Speaker 2: take control of our destiny and make government work for people.

1853
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:33,000
Speaker 1: All right, Well, Mayor Matt Mahon, it's been good to

1854
01:44:33,000 --> 01:44:38,720
Speaker 1: get to know you. I appreciate it. And you know,

1855
01:44:38,920 --> 01:44:42,000
Speaker 1: as long as it's not been the best of years

1856
01:44:42,000 --> 01:44:46,439
Speaker 1: for California basketball, has it for college basketball? I don't

1857
01:44:46,439 --> 01:44:49,200
Speaker 1: feel like you got enough. You know, a lot of

1858
01:44:49,240 --> 01:44:51,240
Speaker 1: years you will get University of San Francisco, you might

1859
01:44:51,240 --> 01:44:54,880
Speaker 1: get others in there, UCLA. You know, I mean, are

1860
01:44:54,880 --> 01:44:56,920
Speaker 1: you going to do something about all this West coast

1861
01:44:56,960 --> 01:45:00,639
Speaker 1: flight to these conferences in the Midwest and the East coast?

1862
01:45:01,920 --> 01:45:04,559
Speaker 2: Listen, Chuck, I got to focus and prioritize. I can't

1863
01:45:04,600 --> 01:45:06,360
Speaker 2: solve every problem. I'll leave that one to you.

1864
01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:09,479
Speaker 1: Well, I know there's a lot of sports fans that

1865
01:45:09,520 --> 01:45:12,439
Speaker 1: are frustrated that all those West Coast teams always have

1866
01:45:12,520 --> 01:45:16,320
Speaker 1: to sit on an airplane. There is there is a

1867
01:45:16,720 --> 01:45:19,000
Speaker 1: there's got to be a better way. But you're right,

1868
01:45:20,360 --> 01:45:24,200
Speaker 1: go worry about how homelessness and housing first, and then

1869
01:45:24,520 --> 01:45:27,120
Speaker 1: we'll go. We'll get somewhere be safe in the campaign trail.

1870
01:45:27,160 --> 01:45:27,920
Speaker 1: Appreciate you coming on.

1871
01:45:28,280 --> 01:45:28,840
Speaker 2: Thanks.

1872
01:45:37,720 --> 01:45:40,680
Speaker 1: Well, I have to tell you I'm obsessed with all

1873
01:45:40,680 --> 01:45:44,720
Speaker 1: things California Governor, Right, now I'm really curious to see

1874
01:45:44,720 --> 01:45:47,080
Speaker 1: how these Democrats are going to shake out. Will somebody

1875
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:52,040
Speaker 1: catch up to Katie Porter, Eric Swalwell and Tom Stier.

1876
01:45:53,479 --> 01:45:56,400
Speaker 1: I will tell you this, I think the weakest candidacy

1877
01:45:56,920 --> 01:45:59,240
Speaker 1: is actually Tom Styers when you think about the amount

1878
01:45:59,240 --> 01:46:02,679
Speaker 1: of money he is spent and how little support he has.

1879
01:46:03,200 --> 01:46:06,160
Speaker 1: If any other Democrat has spent had the same amount

1880
01:46:06,200 --> 01:46:08,799
Speaker 1: of money spent on their behalf, Katie Porter, Eric Swalwell,

1881
01:46:09,000 --> 01:46:16,080
Speaker 1: Matt Man, Antonio Via Ragosa, you name it, anybody else

1882
01:46:16,120 --> 01:46:17,960
Speaker 1: with the amount of money that's Styer spent, I promise

1883
01:46:18,000 --> 01:46:20,280
Speaker 1: you they'd be doing they'd be highering the polls in Styre.

1884
01:46:21,320 --> 01:46:23,840
Speaker 1: So I do think that we know with no matter

1885
01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:26,240
Speaker 1: how much money he spends, he's got a hard ceiling,

1886
01:46:27,600 --> 01:46:29,519
Speaker 1: and I just can't imagine he's going to find his

1887
01:46:29,600 --> 01:46:31,120
Speaker 1: way in the top two. I know he's trying to

1888
01:46:31,120 --> 01:46:35,679
Speaker 1: buy it. He may he may destroy Swallwell in the process,

1889
01:46:36,360 --> 01:46:41,879
Speaker 1: but my guess is he will help candidate see somewhere

1890
01:46:42,080 --> 01:46:45,519
Speaker 1: on the Democratic side breakthrough whoever candidates see ends up being.

1891
01:46:45,760 --> 01:46:49,439
Speaker 1: Is it Katie Porter, I'm skeptical. Is it Matt Man

1892
01:46:50,080 --> 01:46:53,439
Speaker 1: hasn't gotten traction yet? Is it via ra Gosa. I'm

1893
01:46:53,439 --> 01:46:56,719
Speaker 1: not going to rule it out, but I'm skeptical as well.

1894
01:46:56,479 --> 01:46:59,719
Speaker 1: But we'll see. But something's going to break here, somebody

1895
01:46:59,760 --> 01:47:03,360
Speaker 1: will start rallying. It'll and the person that it's going

1896
01:47:03,400 --> 01:47:05,680
Speaker 1: to be interesting to watch Gavin Newsoman and all this

1897
01:47:06,280 --> 01:47:08,519
Speaker 1: because it would be really embarrassing if his party can't

1898
01:47:08,560 --> 01:47:11,120
Speaker 1: get a Democrat in the top two. But he doesn't

1899
01:47:11,160 --> 01:47:14,519
Speaker 1: really have an air parent and frankly, many of these

1900
01:47:14,560 --> 01:47:17,720
Speaker 1: Democrats are kind of criticizing him in this so it

1901
01:47:17,840 --> 01:47:23,639
Speaker 1: is kind of a mess there. And let's just say

1902
01:47:23,640 --> 01:47:25,599
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of Democrats in California. Glad

1903
01:47:25,640 --> 01:47:28,639
Speaker 1: that there's a couple more months to work this out.

1904
01:47:28,680 --> 01:47:37,200
Speaker 1: All right, it is time machine time. As you know.

1905
01:47:37,240 --> 01:47:41,240
Speaker 1: I like to take an anniversary of this week that

1906
01:47:41,320 --> 01:47:47,120
Speaker 1: we're living in, so March thirtieth through April fifth, historical

1907
01:47:47,120 --> 01:47:49,920
Speaker 1: events that have taken place within this seven day period.

1908
01:47:51,160 --> 01:47:54,040
Speaker 1: There were a lot this week to choose from to

1909
01:47:55,160 --> 01:48:00,800
Speaker 1: one assassination attempt Ronald Reagan, one historic assassination tragic in

1910
01:48:00,880 --> 01:48:03,200
Speaker 1: Martin Luther King Junior. That is not the direction we're

1911
01:48:03,240 --> 01:48:07,120
Speaker 1: going today. We're going to go to nineteen forty nine,

1912
01:48:07,240 --> 01:48:12,600
Speaker 1: April fourth, nineteen forty nine, inside Washington, d C. Representatives

1913
01:48:12,600 --> 01:48:15,840
Speaker 1: from twelve countries signed a treaty creating something that was

1914
01:48:15,880 --> 01:48:21,160
Speaker 1: brand new in American history, a permanent military alliance, the

1915
01:48:21,200 --> 01:48:27,360
Speaker 1: North Atlantic Treaty Organization NATO. Now it doesn't sound radical today,

1916
01:48:27,479 --> 01:48:30,000
Speaker 1: but for the United States in nineteen forty nine, this

1917
01:48:30,080 --> 01:48:34,440
Speaker 1: was radical because for most of its history America avoided

1918
01:48:34,439 --> 01:48:42,559
Speaker 1: permanent alliances. George Washington himself warned against permanent alliances, and

1919
01:48:42,560 --> 01:48:45,080
Speaker 1: in fact, there was a belief that so many wars

1920
01:48:45,080 --> 01:48:49,600
Speaker 1: in Europe took place because of these alliances between monarchies

1921
01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:53,400
Speaker 1: that forced countries to take part in wars that maybe

1922
01:48:53,400 --> 01:48:56,599
Speaker 1: they had no issue with and no business being it.

1923
01:48:58,800 --> 01:49:00,559
Speaker 1: And in fact, after World War One, the United States

1924
01:49:00,640 --> 01:49:03,640
Speaker 1: refused to even join the League of Nations, which was

1925
01:49:03,680 --> 01:49:06,600
Speaker 1: an idea by an American. So the real question is

1926
01:49:06,640 --> 01:49:08,479
Speaker 1: not just what NATO is. The real question is why

1927
01:49:08,560 --> 01:49:11,559
Speaker 1: did it take two World wars for the United States

1928
01:49:11,640 --> 01:49:18,040
Speaker 1: to decide it needed one. After War One, there was

1929
01:49:18,080 --> 01:49:21,080
Speaker 1: an attempt at collective security the League of Nations. The

1930
01:49:21,120 --> 01:49:24,320
Speaker 1: idea was similar countries would cooperate to prevent future wars,

1931
01:49:24,680 --> 01:49:27,479
Speaker 1: but there were two fatal flaws. First, the United States

1932
01:49:27,520 --> 01:49:30,200
Speaker 1: never joined. That was a big one. The Senate rejected

1933
01:49:30,240 --> 01:49:32,559
Speaker 1: the membership in the League of Nations. Americans were very

1934
01:49:32,560 --> 01:49:36,760
Speaker 1: wary of foreign entanglement. Second, the League had no enforcement mechanism,

1935
01:49:37,040 --> 01:49:40,400
Speaker 1: no binding military commitment, so when aggression came in the

1936
01:49:40,479 --> 01:49:43,759
Speaker 1: nineteen thirties, the League couldn't condemn it, but it couldn't

1937
01:49:43,800 --> 01:49:49,439
Speaker 1: stop it. That failure shaped everything that came next. After

1938
01:49:49,479 --> 01:49:53,080
Speaker 1: World War II, the calculation changed. The United States wasn't withdrawing,

1939
01:49:53,120 --> 01:49:56,880
Speaker 1: it was staying, and the threat wasn't theoretical. It was

1940
01:49:56,960 --> 01:49:59,960
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union. Between nineteen forty five and nineteen four

1941
01:50:00,000 --> 01:50:03,559
Speaker 1: forty nine, Eastern Europe fell under Soviet control, the Communist

1942
01:50:03,640 --> 01:50:11,120
Speaker 1: coup in then Czechoslovakia, the Berlin Blockade. In fact, Churchill's

1943
01:50:11,120 --> 01:50:14,280
Speaker 1: famous Iron Curtain wasn't just rhetoric, it was actually a

1944
01:50:14,320 --> 01:50:17,080
Speaker 1: map that he was trying to show and visualized. Western

1945
01:50:17,120 --> 01:50:20,760
Speaker 1: Europe could not defend itself alone, and for the first time,

1946
01:50:20,800 --> 01:50:25,440
Speaker 1: the United States accepted something new. Security couldn't be temporary,

1947
01:50:25,680 --> 01:50:29,360
Speaker 1: it had to be permanent. But that idea still had

1948
01:50:29,360 --> 01:50:34,000
Speaker 1: to pass the skeptical United States Senate. The breakthrough came

1949
01:50:34,520 --> 01:50:37,880
Speaker 1: with the Van den Berg Resolution in nineteen forty eight,

1950
01:50:37,960 --> 01:50:41,719
Speaker 1: one year before NATO was born. Senator Arthur Vandenberg helped

1951
01:50:41,720 --> 01:50:45,640
Speaker 1: shift American foreign policy towards internationalism, but he did it

1952
01:50:45,720 --> 01:50:48,200
Speaker 1: very carefully. The key condition he came up with was

1953
01:50:48,240 --> 01:50:51,800
Speaker 1: that any alliance that the United States got into must

1954
01:50:51,920 --> 01:50:58,160
Speaker 1: preserve Congress's authority over war. That constraint would end up

1955
01:50:58,200 --> 01:51:04,200
Speaker 1: shaping the NATO Treaty. The North Atlantic Treaty did not

1956
01:51:04,240 --> 01:51:07,719
Speaker 1: pass automatically. The Senate debated it for ten days because

1957
01:51:07,760 --> 01:51:11,040
Speaker 1: the central issue was would NATO automatically commit the United

1958
01:51:11,040 --> 01:51:14,839
Speaker 1: States to war or would Congress still be the decider

1959
01:51:14,840 --> 01:51:17,519
Speaker 1: on that. I know what you're thinking at the moment

1960
01:51:17,560 --> 01:51:19,200
Speaker 1: here you're like, well, wait a minute, Congress is not

1961
01:51:19,240 --> 01:51:20,880
Speaker 1: the decider. Even now we're in a war and they

1962
01:51:20,880 --> 01:51:24,800
Speaker 1: didn't do a thing about it. I know, but let

1963
01:51:24,800 --> 01:51:28,679
Speaker 1: me finish this. So Article five was written the way

1964
01:51:28,720 --> 01:51:32,120
Speaker 1: it was in order to navigate this question. Each country

1965
01:51:32,160 --> 01:51:37,559
Speaker 1: would take quote such action as it deems necessary, so

1966
01:51:37,560 --> 01:51:40,680
Speaker 1: it was an automatic war. It did allow for some

1967
01:51:40,720 --> 01:51:46,200
Speaker 1: constitutional discretion. That language made ratification possible, So in July

1968
01:51:46,280 --> 01:51:50,759
Speaker 1: twenty first, nineteen forty nine, the Senate approved that April

1969
01:51:50,920 --> 01:51:56,320
Speaker 1: Fourth Treaty eighty two to thirteen strong support, but it

1970
01:51:56,360 --> 01:51:59,640
Speaker 1: took real debate and some compromise. At the center of

1971
01:51:59,720 --> 01:52:03,280
Speaker 1: NATO was Article five. You've heard it before. An attack

1972
01:52:03,320 --> 01:52:05,519
Speaker 1: on one is considered an attack on all. For the

1973
01:52:05,600 --> 01:52:07,960
Speaker 1: United States, that was a big lead a permanent security

1974
01:52:08,000 --> 01:52:12,640
Speaker 1: commitment to Europe. Now there were twelve original members, the

1975
01:52:12,720 --> 01:52:23,360
Speaker 1: United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Italy,

1976
01:52:23,720 --> 01:52:29,439
Speaker 1: and Portugal. That was a North Atlantic alliance, was not global,

1977
01:52:30,320 --> 01:52:33,799
Speaker 1: and it was not open ended. It specifically was focused

1978
01:52:33,800 --> 01:52:41,639
Speaker 1: on Europe and North America. Now NATO would expand, first

1979
01:52:41,640 --> 01:52:43,920
Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty two and then again in nineteen fifty five.

1980
01:52:44,680 --> 01:52:48,200
Speaker 1: In fifty two, Greece and Turkey would join, But the

1981
01:52:48,240 --> 01:52:52,920
Speaker 1: most consequential decision was nineteen fifty five when West Germany joined.

1982
01:52:53,439 --> 01:52:55,680
Speaker 1: Only ten years after World War II, the West integrated

1983
01:52:55,720 --> 01:53:00,679
Speaker 1: a re armed Germany into its defense system. Not everybody

1984
01:53:00,920 --> 01:53:04,160
Speaker 1: was thrilled with that idea. For countries like France, that

1985
01:53:04,360 --> 01:53:08,800
Speaker 1: was deeply uncomfortable, but the logic was clear. Germany would

1986
01:53:08,800 --> 01:53:12,280
Speaker 1: be safer inside the system than outside it, and the

1987
01:53:12,320 --> 01:53:15,200
Speaker 1: payoff was real. West Germany became a stable democracy and

1988
01:53:15,240 --> 01:53:19,759
Speaker 1: eventually would become Europe's largest economy and really the political

1989
01:53:19,800 --> 01:53:23,800
Speaker 1: anchor of the continent. So for decades NATO had a

1990
01:53:23,840 --> 01:53:27,640
Speaker 1: simple purpose contained the Soviet Union, and it worked not

1991
01:53:27,720 --> 01:53:31,320
Speaker 1: by fighting a war, but by making one too costly

1992
01:53:31,400 --> 01:53:37,920
Speaker 1: to start deterrence. Then the Soviet Union collapsed and NATO

1993
01:53:38,080 --> 01:53:43,920
Speaker 1: lost its original purpose. The question became does NATO still exist? Well,

1994
01:53:43,960 --> 01:53:49,360
Speaker 1: the answer was yes, but the reason changed. NATO expanded

1995
01:53:49,360 --> 01:53:53,519
Speaker 1: eastward in nineteen ninety nine Poland, Hungary, and the Czech

1996
01:53:53,520 --> 01:53:57,759
Speaker 1: Republic one half of Czechoslovakia would join. In two thousand

1997
01:53:57,760 --> 01:54:02,960
Speaker 1: and four the Baltic States, Bulgaria, Slovakia, Slovenia, they all

1998
01:54:02,960 --> 01:54:09,080
Speaker 1: would join, and later Albania, which borders on the Adriatic,

1999
01:54:09,840 --> 01:54:12,479
Speaker 1: which we all learned if you watched enough Cheers episodes. Sorry,

2000
01:54:12,479 --> 01:54:14,960
Speaker 1: I couldn't help myself. There's always a little coach in me.

2001
01:54:15,560 --> 01:54:19,800
Speaker 1: It's an easter egg for some of you. Later though, Albania, Croatia, Montenegro,

2002
01:54:19,920 --> 01:54:23,439
Speaker 1: North Macedonia, and of course, most recently, the two that

2003
01:54:23,479 --> 01:54:28,280
Speaker 1: the Russias War with Ukraine triggered Finland and Sweden for

2004
01:54:28,360 --> 01:54:33,080
Speaker 1: new members, NATO mense security for Russia. It meant encroachment.

2005
01:54:33,920 --> 01:54:39,520
Speaker 1: Both perceptions have shaped modern geopolitics. Then there's Ukraine. Ukraine

2006
01:54:39,560 --> 01:54:41,720
Speaker 1: sits at the center of this tension and it always has.

2007
01:54:41,760 --> 01:54:44,800
Speaker 1: In two thousand and eight, NATO decided said that Ukraine

2008
01:54:44,800 --> 01:54:49,880
Speaker 1: would eventually join, but it didn't provide immedia protection created

2009
01:54:49,880 --> 01:54:52,080
Speaker 1: a gray zone. This turned out to be a catastrophic

2010
01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:54,200
Speaker 1: decision by the way by NATO in two thousand and eight.

2011
01:54:54,240 --> 01:54:58,040
Speaker 1: In hindsight, easy to say now understandably why they didn't

2012
01:54:58,040 --> 01:55:01,320
Speaker 1: do it then, but it was enough promised to matter politically,

2013
01:55:02,280 --> 01:55:06,040
Speaker 1: but not enough commitment to deter a conflict. Ukraine became

2014
01:55:06,040 --> 01:55:08,600
Speaker 1: the most dangerous space between alliance and non alliance, and

2015
01:55:08,680 --> 01:55:13,720
Speaker 1: obviously we now know we didn't do enough. Biggest what if?

2016
01:55:15,520 --> 01:55:21,280
Speaker 1: Biggest what if is if we'd let Ukraine join, would

2017
01:55:21,320 --> 01:55:25,320
Speaker 1: rush it ever invaded. But here's another part that many

2018
01:55:25,360 --> 01:55:28,120
Speaker 1: people miss about NATO. Article five has only been invoked

2019
01:55:28,160 --> 01:55:33,920
Speaker 1: once after the September eleventh attacks by the United States.

2020
01:55:35,200 --> 01:55:37,560
Speaker 1: It's not just a historical detail, it's a reminder that

2021
01:55:37,600 --> 01:55:43,880
Speaker 1: alliance has become real in both directions, and once alliance

2022
01:55:43,920 --> 01:55:46,560
Speaker 1: has become real, they also become testable, which brings us

2023
01:55:46,640 --> 01:55:49,600
Speaker 1: to today. For decades, the primary pressure on NATO came

2024
01:55:49,640 --> 01:55:53,600
Speaker 1: from the outside. Now there's pressure from within. In the

2025
01:55:53,680 --> 01:55:56,840
Speaker 1: United States, skepticism about NATO's resurfaced in the form of

2026
01:55:56,920 --> 01:55:59,720
Speaker 1: one Donald Trump. He has repeatedly questioned the value of

2027
01:55:59,720 --> 01:56:02,520
Speaker 1: the allign alliance, particularly where the United States should guarantee

2028
01:56:02,520 --> 01:56:06,240
Speaker 1: the defensive countries that do not meet defense spending expectations. Frankly,

2029
01:56:06,240 --> 01:56:09,000
Speaker 1: he doesn't think we should be warring. It be brought

2030
01:56:09,080 --> 01:56:12,880
Speaker 1: into a conflict by a country that's below us, whatever

2031
01:56:12,920 --> 01:56:17,560
Speaker 1: that means to him. And obviously he's he believes if

2032
01:56:17,640 --> 01:56:20,320
Speaker 1: NATO doesn't do whatever he wants them to do, like

2033
01:56:20,880 --> 01:56:24,920
Speaker 1: secure the strait of war moves. Because he stumbled into

2034
01:56:25,200 --> 01:56:28,480
Speaker 1: a war with Iron without a plan, he gets angry

2035
01:56:28,520 --> 01:56:31,240
Speaker 1: that NATO won't bail him out. Now he hasn't withdrawn

2036
01:56:31,240 --> 01:56:36,280
Speaker 1: from NATO, but he has introduced something pretty new for

2037
01:56:36,360 --> 01:56:40,760
Speaker 1: this alliance, the idea that American commitment is simply conditional.

2038
01:56:41,440 --> 01:56:45,160
Speaker 1: And this idea that American alliances are conditional, America's relationship

2039
01:56:45,240 --> 01:56:49,440
Speaker 1: is conditional. This is a huge problem. America used to

2040
01:56:49,520 --> 01:56:51,760
Speaker 1: be a reliable partner because it didn't matter if we

2041
01:56:51,760 --> 01:56:54,760
Speaker 1: had a Democratic president or Republican president. They were always there.

2042
01:56:54,800 --> 01:56:59,400
Speaker 1: For Europe. They were always there for NATO because NATO

2043
01:56:59,440 --> 01:57:03,760
Speaker 1: isn't just a millilitary structure, it's a psychological one. Deterrence

2044
01:57:03,840 --> 01:57:07,200
Speaker 1: depends on belief, and up until Donald Trump, there was

2045
01:57:07,280 --> 01:57:10,000
Speaker 1: full belief in NATO left and right in this country,

2046
01:57:10,160 --> 01:57:14,240
Speaker 1: democratic republican president eLife. Now at the same time, Europe's

2047
01:57:14,280 --> 01:57:16,560
Speaker 1: begun asking its own question, how dependent should it be

2048
01:57:16,600 --> 01:57:24,640
Speaker 1: in the United States? Germany is shifting to its post

2049
01:57:24,720 --> 01:57:28,280
Speaker 1: Ukraine shift towards a major defense investments. It's part of

2050
01:57:28,280 --> 01:57:32,240
Speaker 1: the answer. So it's the broader conversation about European strategic economy,

2051
01:57:32,520 --> 01:57:36,520
Speaker 1: but it raises some tensions. Is Europe's strengthening NATO or

2052
01:57:36,560 --> 01:57:38,600
Speaker 1: preparing for a world where it may need to operate

2053
01:57:38,640 --> 01:57:44,280
Speaker 1: without it? So NATO's identity crisis has evolved. It's no

2054
01:57:44,360 --> 01:57:46,720
Speaker 1: longer just what is NATO for after the Cold War?

2055
01:57:47,280 --> 01:57:50,640
Speaker 1: It's now how permanent is the American commitment? How independent

2056
01:57:50,680 --> 01:57:54,440
Speaker 1: should Europe become? And can an alliance built on uncertainty

2057
01:57:55,160 --> 01:57:59,800
Speaker 1: function in an era of political uncertainty? I might also

2058
01:57:59,800 --> 01:58:04,760
Speaker 1: are you should it just be about North America and

2059
01:58:04,760 --> 01:58:12,360
Speaker 1: Europe or should we should this umbrella of deterrence include

2060
01:58:12,440 --> 01:58:20,280
Speaker 1: continents like South America, Asia, Africa, at least for countries

2061
01:58:20,280 --> 01:58:23,520
Speaker 1: that would like that kind of protection. But all of

2062
01:58:23,520 --> 01:58:25,360
Speaker 1: it brings us back to April fourth, nineteen forty nine.

2063
01:58:25,400 --> 01:58:27,120
Speaker 1: It was a moment when the United States made a

2064
01:58:27,120 --> 01:58:30,080
Speaker 1: decision it had resisted for more than a century to

2065
01:58:30,240 --> 01:58:35,640
Speaker 1: tie its security to others, not temporarily but permanently, because

2066
01:58:35,680 --> 01:58:39,400
Speaker 1: it had learned twice as standing apart actually carried greater risk.

2067
01:58:39,800 --> 01:58:42,800
Speaker 1: We thought we were protected being surrounded by two oceans

2068
01:58:43,160 --> 01:58:45,240
Speaker 1: and not involved in that and not living on that

2069
01:58:45,280 --> 01:58:48,440
Speaker 1: content that not to be true. So NATO wasn't born

2070
01:58:48,480 --> 01:58:51,800
Speaker 1: out of idealism. It was born out of failure, and

2071
01:58:51,840 --> 01:58:57,640
Speaker 1: ironically that's why it's lasted. But how it evolves after this,

2072
01:58:59,000 --> 01:59:06,760
Speaker 1: and what happens to Ukraine after this war ends, it's

2073
01:59:06,880 --> 01:59:08,960
Speaker 1: probably going to tell us a lot about whether NATO

2074
01:59:09,200 --> 01:59:15,680
Speaker 1: has the ability to survive in perpetuity. So there you go.

2075
01:59:16,800 --> 01:59:29,120
Speaker 1: There's your history lesson for the week, ask Chuck. All right,

2076
01:59:29,200 --> 01:59:31,640
Speaker 1: let's take some questions. First one comes from Ira Shulman,

2077
01:59:32,000 --> 01:59:34,880
Speaker 1: and Ira writes, longtime listener and fan. During the last election,

2078
01:59:35,240 --> 01:59:37,480
Speaker 1: women's rights were at the top of every news story.

2079
01:59:37,640 --> 01:59:39,800
Speaker 1: We were told by almost every new outlet that inflation

2080
01:59:39,920 --> 01:59:41,880
Speaker 1: was transitory and that regular people did not know how

2081
01:59:41,920 --> 01:59:44,280
Speaker 1: great the economy was. You talked about the price of check,

2082
01:59:44,320 --> 01:59:46,640
Speaker 1: and now it's about affordability. How come no candidates talk

2083
01:59:46,680 --> 01:59:49,120
Speaker 1: about job creation? Aren't good paying jobs that protect the

2084
01:59:49,280 --> 01:59:53,800
Speaker 1: social safety net? You know, it's interesting, it's not just

2085
01:59:53,920 --> 01:59:57,600
Speaker 1: job creation, and I think that's an issue that I think, frankly,

2086
01:59:57,600 --> 01:59:59,600
Speaker 1: it's because there's no politicians. They don't know where the

2087
01:59:59,600 --> 02:00:02,520
Speaker 1: next jo are coming from. We're not, We don't. The

2088
02:00:02,600 --> 02:00:05,520
Speaker 1: scary part about the transition we're in right now is

2089
02:00:05,560 --> 02:00:10,160
Speaker 1: we know we're in. We're transitioning rapidly to UH, an

2090
02:00:10,200 --> 02:00:12,960
Speaker 1: economy that's going to be powered in some form by

2091
02:00:13,360 --> 02:00:16,000
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence, and that this is going to be a

2092
02:00:16,040 --> 02:00:19,960
Speaker 1: massive transformation. And we in history says when we have

2093
02:00:20,080 --> 02:00:23,879
Speaker 1: these massive technological transitions like we did with the Industrial Revolution,

2094
02:00:24,880 --> 02:00:26,200
Speaker 1: that there are a bunch of jobs that go away,

2095
02:00:26,280 --> 02:00:27,840
Speaker 1: and there's a bunch of new jobs that come up,

2096
02:00:27,880 --> 02:00:29,600
Speaker 1: but we don't know what they all look like yet.

2097
02:00:31,600 --> 02:00:35,480
Speaker 1: And you're right that we're not in so, you know,

2098
02:00:35,520 --> 02:00:40,960
Speaker 1: even five years ago, I think the Democratic answer to

2099
02:00:41,160 --> 02:00:43,760
Speaker 1: what the new jobs looked like was all things. You know,

2100
02:00:44,120 --> 02:00:46,000
Speaker 1: it was really only a clean energy world that they

2101
02:00:46,000 --> 02:00:49,320
Speaker 1: were focused on. I think the Trump answer has been

2102
02:00:49,360 --> 02:00:53,600
Speaker 1: if if we get rid of illegal immigration, there'll be

2103
02:00:53,600 --> 02:00:55,240
Speaker 1: a lot more jobs that they're ready for people in

2104
02:00:55,280 --> 02:00:58,800
Speaker 1: the United States. I don't think that's not to be true,

2105
02:00:58,880 --> 02:01:01,920
Speaker 1: and it is, you know, clearly when when the political

2106
02:01:01,920 --> 02:01:05,000
Speaker 1: winds shift, these clean energy jobs just totally disappear. So

2107
02:01:05,360 --> 02:01:07,680
Speaker 1: I think the answer your first question come, no Cani's

2108
02:01:07,720 --> 02:01:09,560
Speaker 1: talk about job creation at the moment. I don't think

2109
02:01:09,560 --> 02:01:12,000
Speaker 1: they know where the jobs are coming from. You know,

2110
02:01:12,080 --> 02:01:13,800
Speaker 1: you hear some of it on the left having to

2111
02:01:13,800 --> 02:01:16,600
Speaker 1: do with, you know, some sort of energy transition jobs.

2112
02:01:17,000 --> 02:01:20,120
Speaker 1: You certainly we talk about these you know, chip manufacturing

2113
02:01:20,160 --> 02:01:22,840
Speaker 1: and the and the buildouts that are necessary in order

2114
02:01:22,880 --> 02:01:26,160
Speaker 1: to support artificial intelligence and sort of a temporary you know,

2115
02:01:26,200 --> 02:01:28,960
Speaker 1: And you're hearing more and more commentators going, hey, the

2116
02:01:29,160 --> 02:01:30,880
Speaker 1: great new jobs are going to be things like being

2117
02:01:30,920 --> 02:01:33,520
Speaker 1: a plumber and being an electrician, And you're like, Okay,

2118
02:01:34,400 --> 02:01:36,640
Speaker 1: that's the answer for some people, but that's not you know,

2119
02:01:37,600 --> 02:01:40,440
Speaker 1: what's the next job revolution going to look like? Or

2120
02:01:40,440 --> 02:01:43,640
Speaker 1: are we going to have to start debating a larger

2121
02:01:43,680 --> 02:01:49,760
Speaker 1: social safety net, universal basic income, expanded childcare tax credit,

2122
02:01:50,560 --> 02:01:53,560
Speaker 1: shorter work weeks. Right, where is all that coming from?

2123
02:01:54,080 --> 02:01:58,000
Speaker 1: So what's interesting? I is your question to me crystallizes

2124
02:01:58,080 --> 02:02:04,880
Speaker 1: how why democratic messaging these days in particular feels more

2125
02:02:05,040 --> 02:02:11,040
Speaker 1: reactionary rather than forward looking. Right, and the new ideas

2126
02:02:11,520 --> 02:02:14,480
Speaker 1: are about job creation the way don't seem to have

2127
02:02:14,520 --> 02:02:18,680
Speaker 1: the traction. I think because clean energy is not seen

2128
02:02:18,720 --> 02:02:21,040
Speaker 1: as sort of embraced in that sixty to sixty five

2129
02:02:21,080 --> 02:02:27,160
Speaker 1: percent larger core of the American lector, which I frankly

2130
02:02:27,160 --> 02:02:31,560
Speaker 1: thought we were on our way to pre Trump. I

2131
02:02:31,600 --> 02:02:33,600
Speaker 1: think that's been hard to visualize. Another issue I'd throw

2132
02:02:33,600 --> 02:02:36,400
Speaker 1: out there. So when you don't have the good paying

2133
02:02:36,520 --> 02:02:42,000
Speaker 1: job issue to push and talk about job creation, because

2134
02:02:42,040 --> 02:02:45,840
Speaker 1: right now it feels like it's job replacement R this

2135
02:02:45,920 --> 02:02:49,320
Speaker 1: AI replacement of jobs, then you should be talking about education.

2136
02:02:50,440 --> 02:02:54,440
Speaker 1: And that's another area where Democrats are just decided not

2137
02:02:54,640 --> 02:02:57,840
Speaker 1: to put education as front and center as they once did.

2138
02:02:58,360 --> 02:03:01,680
Speaker 1: I would love to steer you back to my conversation

2139
02:03:01,760 --> 02:03:04,520
Speaker 1: with Ram Emmanuel a couple probably about three or four

2140
02:03:04,520 --> 02:03:08,400
Speaker 1: weeks ago, where he talked about this is all he's

2141
02:03:08,440 --> 02:03:12,320
Speaker 1: been doing is going around the stump talking about education,

2142
02:03:12,600 --> 02:03:16,480
Speaker 1: and he noted with me how much Democrats have sort

2143
02:03:16,520 --> 02:03:21,120
Speaker 1: of let that drop off the national conversation, and you know,

2144
02:03:21,400 --> 02:03:24,120
Speaker 1: I think there's a reason, and I particularly with Latino voters.

2145
02:03:24,120 --> 02:03:25,960
Speaker 1: I think the reason Latino voters have been more open

2146
02:03:26,000 --> 02:03:29,360
Speaker 1: to Republicans is the more they talk about education a

2147
02:03:29,360 --> 02:03:31,920
Speaker 1: lot more. Some of it has to do with school

2148
02:03:32,000 --> 02:03:35,839
Speaker 1: choice things like that, but they're talking about the education issue.

2149
02:03:36,200 --> 02:03:39,800
Speaker 1: Democrats largely have not in the way that they even

2150
02:03:39,880 --> 02:03:43,560
Speaker 1: used to just ten or fifteen years ago. Next question

2151
02:03:43,560 --> 02:03:46,520
Speaker 1: comes from Jim. Jim writes, Hey, the Strait of Ormuz

2152
02:03:46,720 --> 02:03:48,919
Speaker 1: has such an international impact due to a Ran disclosure

2153
02:03:48,920 --> 02:03:50,800
Speaker 1: of it as leverage. What else is out there that

2154
02:03:50,880 --> 02:03:52,520
Speaker 1: is the equivalent of the Strait of Ormus that other

2155
02:03:52,520 --> 02:03:55,680
Speaker 1: countries have potential leverage out there? Well, that's the Panama Canal,

2156
02:03:55,800 --> 02:03:58,560
Speaker 1: there's the Suez Canal. Right, you know, you've got I

2157
02:03:58,600 --> 02:04:02,320
Speaker 1: think what you would argue the Strait of Taiwan is

2158
02:04:02,680 --> 02:04:05,080
Speaker 1: one of these things. So you know, some of these

2159
02:04:05,120 --> 02:04:10,280
Speaker 1: big choke points that could be the cause. Right, geography

2160
02:04:10,320 --> 02:04:14,480
Speaker 1: can have be a cause of war, simple geography, but

2161
02:04:14,600 --> 02:04:18,839
Speaker 1: it's it is you know, we learn this in science

2162
02:04:18,880 --> 02:04:21,640
Speaker 1: fiction if you follow Star Wars, right, what really triggers

2163
02:04:21,680 --> 02:04:25,640
Speaker 1: the war? Between the between the empire and the rebellion.

2164
02:04:25,680 --> 02:04:29,800
Speaker 1: It was trade. Right, when you block trade, when you

2165
02:04:29,920 --> 02:04:33,560
Speaker 1: limit economic opportunity or growth and whatever way you want

2166
02:04:33,560 --> 02:04:36,400
Speaker 1: to in trade is essentially one of those things that

2167
02:04:36,640 --> 02:04:40,120
Speaker 1: is usually some sort of trigger, right, you do an embargo,

2168
02:04:40,200 --> 02:04:43,120
Speaker 1: you do whatever you're doing there that can easily trigger

2169
02:04:44,320 --> 02:04:48,200
Speaker 1: a violent response. And so I think it's it's it's

2170
02:04:48,320 --> 02:04:51,680
Speaker 1: essentially the big shipping lanes are the big ones. You

2171
02:04:51,720 --> 02:04:54,879
Speaker 1: have the Panama, the Suez, and the Strait of Ormons.

2172
02:04:55,400 --> 02:04:57,640
Speaker 1: So those those three, so Suez would be up there

2173
02:04:57,720 --> 02:05:03,400
Speaker 1: by Egypt, Panama Canals, Panama. We know Donald Trump was

2174
02:05:03,640 --> 02:05:05,640
Speaker 1: concerned that the Chinese were going to get control of

2175
02:05:05,640 --> 02:05:07,440
Speaker 1: the Panama Canal. And then if you have the Trait

2176
02:05:07,520 --> 02:05:10,440
Speaker 1: of Taiwan, and there's an interview I'm gonna have pretty

2177
02:05:10,440 --> 02:05:13,720
Speaker 1: soon about sort of potential preparing for a war with

2178
02:05:13,840 --> 02:05:20,880
Speaker 1: China over Taiwan and just sort of how you know

2179
02:05:20,960 --> 02:05:26,960
Speaker 1: how those shipping those those shipping lanes, and that part

2180
02:05:27,640 --> 02:05:31,760
Speaker 1: near Taiwan is a very contested space. So those would

2181
02:05:31,760 --> 02:05:33,880
Speaker 1: be the first the first that jump out at me,

2182
02:05:36,120 --> 02:05:42,160
Speaker 1: Nick Radovic or Radovic, we'll see how I did there,

2183
02:05:42,240 --> 02:05:44,720
Speaker 1: you'll tell me. I hope Nick, He goes, Hey, it

2184
02:05:44,760 --> 02:05:47,600
Speaker 1: never occurred to me that Trump conflated political asylum with

2185
02:05:47,640 --> 02:05:49,840
Speaker 1: insane asilence. I think you're right. Thanks for the laugh

2186
02:05:49,920 --> 02:05:52,440
Speaker 1: this morning. I wish I were making this up, but

2187
02:05:52,480 --> 02:05:54,600
Speaker 1: it's pretty clear to me he's doing it. I mean, look,

2188
02:05:54,640 --> 02:05:58,400
Speaker 1: we learned this right excursion incursion. I mean, you know,

2189
02:05:59,400 --> 02:06:05,840
Speaker 1: he's not the first we all I butcher, as I

2190
02:06:05,920 --> 02:06:08,680
Speaker 1: just did with your last name. I butcher pronunciations all

2191
02:06:08,680 --> 02:06:10,680
Speaker 1: the time. So I am not going to mock anybody

2192
02:06:10,920 --> 02:06:14,560
Speaker 1: that Butcher's pronunciations or anything like this. You know, I

2193
02:06:14,600 --> 02:06:20,080
Speaker 1: love somebody said this, Hey, never criticize somebody that mispronounces

2194
02:06:20,080 --> 02:06:23,320
Speaker 1: something because it means they attempted to read. And I

2195
02:06:23,320 --> 02:06:27,200
Speaker 1: thought that's a I like that. But yeah, it's pretty

2196
02:06:27,280 --> 02:06:32,560
Speaker 1: it's pretty clear that he doesn't quite understand the word asylums.

2197
02:06:34,680 --> 02:06:38,160
Speaker 1: And I wish I were kidding, but I don't think

2198
02:06:38,200 --> 02:06:41,240
Speaker 1: I am Robin San Francisco rites. Hey, your recent comments

2199
02:06:41,280 --> 02:06:43,080
Speaker 1: in democratic leadership got me thinking. I grew up in

2200
02:06:43,120 --> 02:06:45,240
Speaker 1: the UK, where each party is a single leader who

2201
02:06:45,280 --> 02:06:47,760
Speaker 1: speaks for it at all times. In the US, that

2202
02:06:47,840 --> 02:06:50,680
Speaker 1: voice is perpetually split between the national committees, the Senate

2203
02:06:50,720 --> 02:06:53,360
Speaker 1: and the House, with real unity only emerging briefly when

2204
02:06:53,360 --> 02:06:56,360
Speaker 1: a presidential nominee has chosen. Since twenty fifteen, Republicans have

2205
02:06:56,360 --> 02:06:59,600
Speaker 1: had one dominant voice in Trump. Is the Democrats problem

2206
02:06:59,640 --> 02:07:02,640
Speaker 1: less about individual leaders and more about a structural inability

2207
02:07:02,640 --> 02:07:05,880
Speaker 1: to consolidate messaging? And if so, is there any realistic fix?

2208
02:07:07,040 --> 02:07:09,640
Speaker 1: Rob in San Francisco. Well, I'd argue anytime a party

2209
02:07:09,680 --> 02:07:12,080
Speaker 1: is out of power for a period of time, or

2210
02:07:12,120 --> 02:07:14,760
Speaker 1: certainly when they lose a well known leader, they struggle,

2211
02:07:14,840 --> 02:07:19,520
Speaker 1: like I so take you know, Democrats were you know,

2212
02:07:19,560 --> 02:07:21,960
Speaker 1: there were sort of a series of singular Republicans that

2213
02:07:22,000 --> 02:07:25,280
Speaker 1: spoke for the party at Nixon, then Nixon transitioned to Reagan.

2214
02:07:26,240 --> 02:07:28,800
Speaker 1: You had the Kennedy and Johnson in the sixties, and

2215
02:07:28,800 --> 02:07:32,120
Speaker 1: then you sort of Carter never really grabbed that mantle,

2216
02:07:33,080 --> 02:07:36,800
Speaker 1: and so that there was you know, so, but you

2217
02:07:36,800 --> 02:07:38,760
Speaker 1: could argue who was the leader of the Republican Party

2218
02:07:38,840 --> 02:07:44,080
Speaker 1: during the Obama era? Right, they were constantly searching for one.

2219
02:07:44,200 --> 02:07:46,320
Speaker 1: It really wasn't McCain. If it was, they would have

2220
02:07:46,800 --> 02:07:49,960
Speaker 1: had an immigration deal. Right, McCain was leading in somebody's

2221
02:07:50,040 --> 02:07:52,600
Speaker 1: leading the party down that road, but it got him nowhere, Right,

2222
02:07:52,720 --> 02:07:54,560
Speaker 1: Romney wasn't really a leader of the party ended up

2223
02:07:54,560 --> 02:07:59,760
Speaker 1: the nominee. So I think in this case it's this

2224
02:07:59,840 --> 02:08:05,280
Speaker 1: is when you when you get a presidency for two terms,

2225
02:08:06,160 --> 02:08:08,560
Speaker 1: A lot of times you know you have that, and

2226
02:08:08,600 --> 02:08:11,600
Speaker 1: then it's the other party that is constantly looking for

2227
02:08:11,600 --> 02:08:15,040
Speaker 1: a back look the singing. Having the presidency makes it

2228
02:08:15,080 --> 02:08:17,280
Speaker 1: look like your party has a leader. When you don't

2229
02:08:17,280 --> 02:08:20,360
Speaker 1: have the presidency, it looks like everything is split into

2230
02:08:20,360 --> 02:08:23,840
Speaker 1: different factions because everything is split into different factions right A.

2231
02:08:24,440 --> 02:08:28,080
Speaker 1: Usually somebody that successfully gets elected president means they've figured

2232
02:08:28,120 --> 02:08:31,040
Speaker 1: out how to bring their party together, create a coalition

2233
02:08:31,120 --> 02:08:33,320
Speaker 1: that might be slightly bigger than their party. Now, I

2234
02:08:33,320 --> 02:08:36,120
Speaker 1: would argue that neither that. Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and

2235
02:08:36,160 --> 02:08:39,160
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris have struggled to create a coalition that's bigger

2236
02:08:39,240 --> 02:08:41,760
Speaker 1: than their party. Barack Obama created a coalition that was

2237
02:08:41,760 --> 02:08:44,280
Speaker 1: bigger than his party. Bill Clinton created a coalition that

2238
02:08:44,320 --> 02:08:46,720
Speaker 1: was slightly bigger than his party. Ronald Reagan created a

2239
02:08:46,720 --> 02:08:49,880
Speaker 1: coalition as bigger his party. When you hit that point,

2240
02:08:50,000 --> 02:08:52,640
Speaker 1: I think that's when you feel like you can put

2241
02:08:52,680 --> 02:08:58,240
Speaker 1: your party together, and that's why you know, what direction

2242
02:08:58,520 --> 02:09:02,840
Speaker 1: does the party take? Choosing its next presidential nominee. And

2243
02:09:02,880 --> 02:09:05,560
Speaker 1: then when that person is chosen, how do they choose

2244
02:09:05,560 --> 02:09:07,920
Speaker 1: to lead? Right? Are they going to try to be

2245
02:09:07,960 --> 02:09:10,520
Speaker 1: a sixty percent president or are they going to try

2246
02:09:10,560 --> 02:09:14,160
Speaker 1: to be a fifty percent plus one president. There's a difference, Right,

2247
02:09:14,240 --> 02:09:17,240
Speaker 1: If you're striving for sixty percent approval, you're going to

2248
02:09:17,360 --> 02:09:21,520
Speaker 1: disappoint your base more often than the base would like.

2249
02:09:22,160 --> 02:09:24,440
Speaker 1: If it's fifty percent plus one, then you're going to

2250
02:09:24,520 --> 02:09:26,920
Speaker 1: lean more heavily on your base, and you're essentially going

2251
02:09:26,960 --> 02:09:30,400
Speaker 1: to put the center into a put them in a

2252
02:09:30,400 --> 02:09:34,320
Speaker 1: tough position to make a choice between something that goes

2253
02:09:34,360 --> 02:09:36,240
Speaker 1: too far in one direction versus something that goes too

2254
02:09:36,280 --> 02:09:45,840
Speaker 1: far in the other direction. But that's why we have elections,

2255
02:09:46,000 --> 02:09:47,400
Speaker 1: and that's what I think we're going to learn a

2256
02:09:47,400 --> 02:09:49,200
Speaker 1: little bit in twenty six and a lot of it

2257
02:09:49,360 --> 02:09:52,560
Speaker 1: in twenty eight. Next question does not have a name

2258
02:09:52,600 --> 02:09:57,640
Speaker 1: on It looks like it's from anonymous, but I'll read

2259
02:09:57,680 --> 02:10:02,640
Speaker 1: it anyway. I've been thinking about whether there should be

2260
02:10:02,640 --> 02:10:05,400
Speaker 1: a constitutional amendment requiring that any presidential pardon be approved

2261
02:10:05,400 --> 02:10:07,640
Speaker 1: by a two thirds vote of the Senate Judiciary Committee

2262
02:10:07,680 --> 02:10:09,520
Speaker 1: as a simple check on that power and to prevent

2263
02:10:09,520 --> 02:10:13,240
Speaker 1: potential abuse, especially in cases involving family members are close associates.

2264
02:10:13,240 --> 02:10:16,120
Speaker 1: Do you think a reform like that is realistic or constitutional?

2265
02:10:16,160 --> 02:10:18,960
Speaker 1: Is there any serious discussion in legal or political circles

2266
02:10:19,000 --> 02:10:23,400
Speaker 1: about putting limits on presidential pardon power? Well, I hope

2267
02:10:23,560 --> 02:10:27,120
Speaker 1: you checked out the interview I had with Jolly Johnny

2268
02:10:27,160 --> 02:10:32,200
Speaker 1: Congressman Johnny Olachski. God, I hope I got that right. Anyway,

2269
02:10:32,280 --> 02:10:38,360
Speaker 1: Johnny O Baltimore, congressman who introduced the has introduced a

2270
02:10:38,360 --> 02:10:41,080
Speaker 1: constitutional amendment to see if you can get Congress to pass.

2271
02:10:41,120 --> 02:10:43,960
Speaker 1: It has at least one Republican co sponsor, Don Bacon,

2272
02:10:44,280 --> 02:10:46,720
Speaker 1: and it is a it's similar to what you're describing.

2273
02:10:46,760 --> 02:10:50,720
Speaker 1: It's essentially the ability for Congress to nullify a presidential pardon.

2274
02:10:50,720 --> 02:10:55,280
Speaker 1: And now it would take you know, two essentially two thirds. Essentially,

2275
02:10:55,320 --> 02:10:58,080
Speaker 1: this what it takes to overwrite a presidential veto is

2276
02:10:58,080 --> 02:11:00,640
Speaker 1: what it would take to overwrite a presidential pardon. But

2277
02:11:00,880 --> 02:11:05,040
Speaker 1: just putting that check in there, I think it's I think,

2278
02:11:05,320 --> 02:11:07,880
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of like where you're going. I

2279
02:11:07,920 --> 02:11:09,480
Speaker 1: think we should have a pardon board. I think we

2280
02:11:09,480 --> 02:11:12,600
Speaker 1: should even just get rid of the singular power that

2281
02:11:12,640 --> 02:11:14,640
Speaker 1: the president has to do this. I think it should

2282
02:11:14,640 --> 02:11:16,840
Speaker 1: have been a board from the very beginning, and it

2283
02:11:16,880 --> 02:11:18,680
Speaker 1: has always been one of these head scratches to me,

2284
02:11:18,840 --> 02:11:22,080
Speaker 1: like what why why did the founders who were revolting

2285
02:11:22,120 --> 02:11:27,080
Speaker 1: against the monarch give the president a power that only

2286
02:11:27,280 --> 02:11:31,400
Speaker 1: a monarch used to have. So the point is is

2287
02:11:31,400 --> 02:11:35,440
Speaker 1: that you're going to need a constitutional amendment in order

2288
02:11:35,520 --> 02:11:38,920
Speaker 1: to notify a presidential pardon. So it does have to

2289
02:11:38,960 --> 02:11:41,360
Speaker 1: be a constitutional amendment, or else it wouldn't be constitutional.

2290
02:11:41,720 --> 02:11:44,920
Speaker 1: I know that's redundant to say it that way, but basically,

2291
02:11:45,520 --> 02:11:49,320
Speaker 1: Congress could pass no law without a constitutional amendment that

2292
02:11:49,360 --> 02:11:55,800
Speaker 1: would have any impact on denying a presidential art Next question,

2293
02:11:58,800 --> 02:12:04,840
Speaker 1: another one here, hundred percent sure we have I don't

2294
02:12:04,880 --> 02:12:06,960
Speaker 1: think we have a name on this one either, more

2295
02:12:06,960 --> 02:12:10,520
Speaker 1: anonymous question. I like it, Hey, I've been a long

2296
02:12:10,520 --> 02:12:12,680
Speaker 1: time listener since your days at Meet the Press. Appreciate it,

2297
02:12:12,720 --> 02:12:14,840
Speaker 1: Love your podcast and always listen to it during my

2298
02:12:14,920 --> 02:12:17,520
Speaker 1: walks or on long car trips. I know, and I

2299
02:12:17,600 --> 02:12:19,320
Speaker 1: keep getting longer for you, so you're going to need

2300
02:12:19,360 --> 02:12:22,520
Speaker 1: to do longer card trips. Two things I think you

2301
02:12:22,520 --> 02:12:25,600
Speaker 1: often call Michigan Senate hopeful Mallory McMorrow by the wrong.

2302
02:12:25,600 --> 02:12:27,560
Speaker 1: First name. I think you're right. I don't say Mallory.

2303
02:12:28,640 --> 02:12:30,840
Speaker 1: I call her Molly McMorrow. You are one hundred percent

2304
02:12:30,920 --> 02:12:33,440
Speaker 1: right my error. Thank you for pointing that out. I

2305
02:12:33,440 --> 02:12:35,440
Speaker 1: think she has a bright future in Michigan national politics.

2306
02:12:35,440 --> 02:12:37,920
Speaker 1: I do do. In fact, I think she's if she

2307
02:12:38,040 --> 02:12:42,880
Speaker 1: wins the primary, she wins the Senate race. I think

2308
02:12:42,920 --> 02:12:46,040
Speaker 1: i'd read it's interesting she seems to be the Goldilocks candidate.

2309
02:12:46,120 --> 02:12:47,680
Speaker 1: You know, you have three candidates. Don't mean to like

2310
02:12:47,840 --> 02:12:49,880
Speaker 1: beat up that thing, right, you have one it appears

2311
02:12:49,920 --> 02:12:51,640
Speaker 1: a bit too progressive, one of it appears a bit

2312
02:12:51,640 --> 02:12:55,960
Speaker 1: too establishment, and I think Mallory I keep calling her Molly,

2313
02:12:56,000 --> 02:12:59,280
Speaker 1: and thank you for fixing that. Is doing a pretty

2314
02:12:59,280 --> 02:13:01,560
Speaker 1: good jobs splitting the difference. Sometimes he's put the difference

2315
02:13:01,600 --> 02:13:04,920
Speaker 1: and you can disappoint everybody. In this case, I think

2316
02:13:04,920 --> 02:13:06,880
Speaker 1: it's going to work. Second, I love your interview with

2317
02:13:06,920 --> 02:13:09,760
Speaker 1: floridattorney John Morgan. Yes, mister Morgan and Morgan, you think

2318
02:13:09,800 --> 02:13:11,600
Speaker 1: Morgan will pull the trigger and run for Florida governor

2319
02:13:11,600 --> 02:13:13,720
Speaker 1: as independent? Seems like we are too close to the

2320
02:13:13,720 --> 02:13:16,160
Speaker 1: election if he jumps in this slate. Mike Duggan, an

2321
02:13:16,160 --> 02:13:18,600
Speaker 1: independent former Democratic mayor of Detroit has been running for

2322
02:13:18,640 --> 02:13:21,280
Speaker 1: Michigan gov since he was still in the mayor's office.

2323
02:13:21,440 --> 02:13:23,480
Speaker 1: During your interview, Morgan seemed like he was all in

2324
02:13:23,520 --> 02:13:25,280
Speaker 1: on the race for Florida governor. I think voters in

2325
02:13:25,280 --> 02:13:28,120
Speaker 1: Florida are looking for something different, especially after two terms

2326
02:13:28,120 --> 02:13:29,920
Speaker 1: of Ron DeSantis. Thanks for all you do. I look

2327
02:13:29,960 --> 02:13:31,879
Speaker 1: forward to listening to every episode you drop. I appreciate

2328
02:13:31,920 --> 02:13:35,560
Speaker 1: you asking. Look, I think it's pretty clear, and I've

2329
02:13:35,600 --> 02:13:38,640
Speaker 1: had I've had more conversations with him offline and with

2330
02:13:38,680 --> 02:13:43,960
Speaker 1: people close to John Morgan that he's you know, he's

2331
02:13:45,440 --> 02:13:48,280
Speaker 1: he's still open to doing it. The filing deadline hasn't passed,

2332
02:13:48,320 --> 02:13:49,960
Speaker 1: and he probably is one of the few with the

2333
02:13:50,000 --> 02:13:52,840
Speaker 1: resources if he chooses to do it, could still do it.

2334
02:13:53,480 --> 02:13:55,960
Speaker 1: I think he's skeptical that the Democratic brand is strong

2335
02:13:56,080 --> 02:13:58,160
Speaker 1: enough to win, no matter even if they nominate a

2336
02:13:58,160 --> 02:14:01,840
Speaker 1: former Republican. I you know, we now have a Democratic

2337
02:14:01,840 --> 02:14:05,280
Speaker 1: primary between the mayor of Orlando, Jerry Demings, and the

2338
02:14:07,040 --> 02:14:09,560
Speaker 1: it's Orange County mayor actually sorry, which is the county

2339
02:14:09,560 --> 02:14:17,600
Speaker 1: that encompasses Orlando, and former Republican Congressman David Jolly. And

2340
02:14:17,640 --> 02:14:23,240
Speaker 1: so we'll see how that goes. And you know, I'm

2341
02:14:23,280 --> 02:14:26,640
Speaker 1: still waiting for the Republican primary to get more competitive

2342
02:14:26,680 --> 02:14:29,080
Speaker 1: than people realize. I mean, Byron Donald's has a massive

2343
02:14:29,080 --> 02:14:32,880
Speaker 1: amount of money, Trump's endorsement, it's all very strong, but

2344
02:14:32,920 --> 02:14:38,480
Speaker 1: it's clear Governor DeSantis would like somebody else, And you know,

2345
02:14:38,560 --> 02:14:41,920
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. You know, I don't think Desantas is

2346
02:14:41,960 --> 02:14:45,160
Speaker 1: alone in wanting somebody else. He's just the most vocal

2347
02:14:45,280 --> 02:14:49,040
Speaker 1: about wanting something somebody else. But the candidates that have

2348
02:14:49,080 --> 02:14:52,680
Speaker 1: popped up are not exactly don't look like winners, and

2349
02:14:52,760 --> 02:14:57,400
Speaker 1: I can't imagine would do that. So but I'm I

2350
02:14:57,440 --> 02:15:05,000
Speaker 1: think this is a more fluid state politically then folks realize.

2351
02:15:05,480 --> 02:15:08,520
Speaker 1: But I don't think the Democratic Party is putting in

2352
02:15:08,560 --> 02:15:11,880
Speaker 1: the resources to actually make the state competitive on a

2353
02:15:11,920 --> 02:15:14,680
Speaker 1: state wide level. So then the question is, could I

2354
02:15:14,720 --> 02:15:16,840
Speaker 1: do think this is a case where a third party

2355
02:15:16,880 --> 02:15:18,680
Speaker 1: candidate could really make a lot of noise, because I

2356
02:15:18,720 --> 02:15:21,000
Speaker 1: think there is kind of a hunger. Florida is a

2357
02:15:21,440 --> 02:15:24,200
Speaker 1: I think a right leaning state, but more in the

2358
02:15:24,200 --> 02:15:28,600
Speaker 1: libertarian sense, meaning that there's a you know that when

2359
02:15:28,600 --> 02:15:33,000
Speaker 1: the Republicans get too sort of you know, the conservative

2360
02:15:33,040 --> 02:15:35,840
Speaker 1: movement that Trump has led, and arguably DeSantis has led

2361
02:15:35,880 --> 02:15:38,160
Speaker 1: has not been small government at all. It's been government

2362
02:15:38,480 --> 02:15:41,040
Speaker 1: involved in your lives almost too much. Right, It's really

2363
02:15:41,640 --> 02:15:44,240
Speaker 1: pushed away the libertarian wing of the Republican Party, and

2364
02:15:44,240 --> 02:15:47,080
Speaker 1: that's why you're seeing so many I think the libertarians

2365
02:15:47,160 --> 02:15:49,400
Speaker 1: be less comfortable with the right than they've been in

2366
02:15:49,440 --> 02:15:56,240
Speaker 1: a long time because of this decision by some of

2367
02:15:56,280 --> 02:16:00,400
Speaker 1: these Republican leaders to have government more involved in your life,

2368
02:16:00,520 --> 02:16:05,240
Speaker 1: using government as a weapon to get involved in America's

2369
02:16:05,280 --> 02:16:09,240
Speaker 1: culture and things like this. So I don't disagree that

2370
02:16:09,280 --> 02:16:11,960
Speaker 1: the I think they I think the appetite is there,

2371
02:16:12,960 --> 02:16:16,960
Speaker 1: and I certainly think it's a right. Morgan is the

2372
02:16:17,040 --> 02:16:19,280
Speaker 1: right guy, but he might be a few years too old.

2373
02:16:19,680 --> 02:16:21,680
Speaker 1: I mean, what you really need is a reincarnation of

2374
02:16:21,760 --> 02:16:24,000
Speaker 1: Lotton Childs, who, while it was a Democrat then I

2375
02:16:24,000 --> 02:16:28,160
Speaker 1: think today would be sort of an independent of some sort,

2376
02:16:28,320 --> 02:16:30,760
Speaker 1: you know, sort of more probably closer. I mean John

2377
02:16:30,760 --> 02:16:32,680
Speaker 1: Morgan clearly is more of a Clinton Democrat, more of

2378
02:16:32,680 --> 02:16:38,520
Speaker 1: a Loton Child's Democrat. I think that's that could work, right,

2379
02:16:39,000 --> 02:16:41,879
Speaker 1: you know, sort of somebody out of the somebody out

2380
02:16:41,879 --> 02:16:44,600
Speaker 1: of the head of Carl Hyson, if you will, of

2381
02:16:44,600 --> 02:16:48,120
Speaker 1: how Carl Huson would design an independent governor. Sorry, I'm

2382
02:16:48,160 --> 02:16:53,560
Speaker 1: a huge hyasin fan of his novels. Have some strong

2383
02:16:53,560 --> 02:16:55,760
Speaker 1: feelings about Decker, and I'm not going to get into

2384
02:16:55,840 --> 02:16:58,640
Speaker 1: him now because I don't want to derail my conversation

2385
02:16:59,520 --> 02:17:03,840
Speaker 1: and to all this answer. But you know, I'm you know,

2386
02:17:03,959 --> 02:17:09,400
Speaker 1: look I've been I've been dancing around this moment of

2387
02:17:09,800 --> 02:17:13,400
Speaker 1: looking for you know, I do think voters are looking

2388
02:17:13,440 --> 02:17:17,560
Speaker 1: for an alternative to this, to this NonStop polarization that

2389
02:17:17,600 --> 02:17:20,560
Speaker 1: we're in. I just don't know if there's credible third

2390
02:17:20,560 --> 02:17:23,640
Speaker 1: party or credible independent actors yet that are ready to

2391
02:17:24,280 --> 02:17:26,760
Speaker 1: take the jump. I think Morgan has a lot of

2392
02:17:26,760 --> 02:17:28,880
Speaker 1: the tools you need, a little bit of fame, a

2393
02:17:28,959 --> 02:17:33,160
Speaker 1: lot of bit of money, but he's got to have

2394
02:17:33,200 --> 02:17:36,240
Speaker 1: the ambition. And I actually don't know if he's got

2395
02:17:36,280 --> 02:17:41,680
Speaker 1: the ambition. I think he'd I think he'd be just

2396
02:17:41,720 --> 02:17:47,279
Speaker 1: as just as happy, uh getting getting everything legalized in Florida,

2397
02:17:47,560 --> 02:17:51,520
Speaker 1: if you know what I mean, and focusing on that

2398
02:17:51,600 --> 02:17:55,320
Speaker 1: and enjoying a little bit of retirement. But I do

2399
02:17:55,400 --> 02:17:59,360
Speaker 1: think his there is You're not wrong. He is probably

2400
02:18:00,120 --> 02:18:02,240
Speaker 1: somebody similar to him as the type of person that

2401
02:18:02,240 --> 02:18:04,200
Speaker 1: can break through. He's got a little bit of got

2402
02:18:04,240 --> 02:18:06,920
Speaker 1: a little bit of Jesse venturing him. And I say

2403
02:18:06,920 --> 02:18:10,840
Speaker 1: that as a compliment, And that's why he might just

2404
02:18:10,920 --> 02:18:14,200
Speaker 1: be just be quirky enough in that good in that

2405
02:18:14,440 --> 02:18:17,720
Speaker 1: in the in that Florida man way, he gained traction.

2406
02:18:18,160 --> 02:18:20,080
Speaker 1: But you got to have the ambition to do it.

2407
02:18:20,240 --> 02:18:23,840
Speaker 1: And I'm not one hundred percent sure he's all in

2408
02:18:23,879 --> 02:18:26,039
Speaker 1: on that. I think if he, if he was, he'd

2409
02:18:26,040 --> 02:18:29,320
Speaker 1: already be there. All right, I only got two more

2410
02:18:29,400 --> 02:18:32,240
Speaker 1: questions here, so let's take them. Let's finish it up.

2411
02:18:34,080 --> 02:18:36,160
Speaker 1: Greg from Central Illinois riots, Hey, last week, I was

2412
02:18:36,160 --> 02:18:38,440
Speaker 1: an election judge in Central Illinois. I've been doing it

2413
02:18:38,440 --> 02:18:40,520
Speaker 1: for years, so I was not surprised by the low number.

2414
02:18:40,520 --> 02:18:42,800
Speaker 1: We only had less than one hundred and fifty people vote.

2415
02:18:42,800 --> 02:18:45,040
Speaker 1: But before the poll opened, we were discussing if it

2416
02:18:45,120 --> 02:18:47,680
Speaker 1: was going to be low since it happened, since it

2417
02:18:47,720 --> 02:18:49,920
Speaker 1: happened to be Saint Patrick's day. My question would be

2418
02:18:49,959 --> 02:18:52,000
Speaker 1: if we had open primaries where the top two vote

2419
02:18:52,040 --> 02:18:54,360
Speaker 1: getters have to face off with each other, would that

2420
02:18:54,400 --> 02:18:56,680
Speaker 1: be a solution. The other thing is I noticed on

2421
02:18:56,800 --> 02:18:59,879
Speaker 1: party ballots only I had one candidate for multiple seats,

2422
02:18:59,879 --> 02:19:02,160
Speaker 1: and the other party had many seats with no candidate.

2423
02:19:02,560 --> 02:19:05,320
Speaker 1: Thank you Craig from Central Illinois. Look, I do think

2424
02:19:05,560 --> 02:19:09,760
Speaker 1: putting everybody on the same ballot top two, maybe it's

2425
02:19:10,040 --> 02:19:12,600
Speaker 1: the top four, and then there's a general election, and

2426
02:19:12,600 --> 02:19:14,920
Speaker 1: then if nobody gets fifty percent, there's a runoff from there.

2427
02:19:15,760 --> 02:19:21,240
Speaker 1: But anything that engages more of the electorate I think

2428
02:19:21,320 --> 02:19:25,000
Speaker 1: is healthier for the democracy. Anything that limits the number

2429
02:19:25,040 --> 02:19:27,600
Speaker 1: of people who can participate in election is just not

2430
02:19:27,720 --> 02:19:32,200
Speaker 1: fully democratic hard style all right, I'm not saying ablic

2431
02:19:32,600 --> 02:19:34,760
Speaker 1: A club called the Republican Party and a club called

2432
02:19:34,800 --> 02:19:38,000
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party can't decide who their preferences are, can't

2433
02:19:38,000 --> 02:19:40,600
Speaker 1: say who they would like to see. But I think

2434
02:19:40,680 --> 02:19:44,200
Speaker 1: them deciding who gets to participate in election and that

2435
02:19:44,320 --> 02:19:47,040
Speaker 1: you get to keep other people out, and especially using

2436
02:19:47,080 --> 02:19:49,000
Speaker 1: the power of the state to keep other people out

2437
02:19:49,040 --> 02:19:50,879
Speaker 1: just because they didn't choose to become members of a

2438
02:19:50,879 --> 02:19:58,039
Speaker 1: private institution, feels frankly unconstitutional and certainly feels undemocratic. So

2439
02:19:58,160 --> 02:20:00,880
Speaker 1: I am a huge advocate of this, huge advocate of

2440
02:20:00,920 --> 02:20:05,240
Speaker 1: all party primaries, all open primaries. One Look, I think

2441
02:20:05,240 --> 02:20:09,320
Speaker 1: the ideal situation is that we should be registered voters heartstop.

2442
02:20:10,040 --> 02:20:12,640
Speaker 1: We should not have to pick a political party and

2443
02:20:12,680 --> 02:20:17,680
Speaker 1: tell the government where any government, local, state, or federal,

2444
02:20:18,000 --> 02:20:21,200
Speaker 1: what party I choose to become a member of. I

2445
02:20:21,240 --> 02:20:23,879
Speaker 1: don't understand why that has to be part of the

2446
02:20:23,959 --> 02:20:31,480
Speaker 1: deal in order to participate in a primary election. So

2447
02:20:32,160 --> 02:20:34,240
Speaker 1: it is I think if you want to if we're

2448
02:20:34,240 --> 02:20:35,760
Speaker 1: trying to decide who gets to be in a general

2449
02:20:35,760 --> 02:20:39,680
Speaker 1: election ballot, everybody should have access to that general election ballot.

2450
02:20:39,879 --> 02:20:41,800
Speaker 1: You know, maybe it's just some signatures you need to

2451
02:20:41,840 --> 02:20:47,040
Speaker 1: get on it, you know, but it is. It is.

2452
02:20:48,080 --> 02:20:50,880
Speaker 1: I think how we do it now is more undemocratic

2453
02:20:50,920 --> 02:20:55,600
Speaker 1: than we want to admit. And it would solve this

2454
02:20:55,680 --> 02:20:59,400
Speaker 1: problem of what you're talking about certain races not having

2455
02:20:59,440 --> 02:21:03,480
Speaker 1: any candidate in it. And this is, you know, this

2456
02:21:03,560 --> 02:21:09,520
Speaker 1: is what If we want to refresh this democracy, we

2457
02:21:09,560 --> 02:21:11,760
Speaker 1: need to allow more people to We need to make

2458
02:21:11,800 --> 02:21:14,440
Speaker 1: it some more people have skin in the game, and

2459
02:21:14,480 --> 02:21:17,520
Speaker 1: more people participate. There's your Monday episode. This is a

2460
02:21:17,640 --> 02:21:21,160
Speaker 1: huge holiday week for many people of faith. We've got

2461
02:21:21,240 --> 02:21:25,720
Speaker 1: Passover later this week, good Friday Easter coming up. With

2462
02:21:25,800 --> 02:21:27,520
Speaker 1: the weekend, I know a lot of people are gonna

2463
02:21:27,520 --> 02:21:29,720
Speaker 1: be spending time with family. I will try not to

2464
02:21:29,760 --> 02:21:33,199
Speaker 1: overload your feed this week. I want to be mindful

2465
02:21:34,640 --> 02:21:36,240
Speaker 1: of all the time you're gonna be spending with family,

2466
02:21:36,240 --> 02:21:38,359
Speaker 1: but I'm also mindful that you're going to want to

2467
02:21:38,360 --> 02:21:42,400
Speaker 1: put your headphones in and listen to something while you

2468
02:21:42,440 --> 02:21:46,920
Speaker 1: maybe take a break from family. Anyway, with that, I'll

2469
02:21:46,920 --> 02:21:49,520
Speaker 1: see in forty eight hours. Thanks for listening, and until

2470
02:21:49,520 --> 02:21:50,120
Speaker 1: we upload it,