1 00:00:02,000 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Live from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg Sound on. 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: This is historic progress or in our economy out of 3 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: the worst crisis in a hundred years. The key to 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: the new innovation technolog because actually coming from the oil 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: and gas industry. How much money do we need for 6 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:20,799 Speaker 1: a rural broadman? How much money to redeep for bridges? 7 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: Floomberg Sound on, Politics, policy and perspective from DC's top 8 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: name Waits. We'll continue rising and fill those supply constraints. 9 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 1: Ease US economic plan that's certainly working the investments in 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: the American recue plan by being impactful. Schloomberg Sound on 11 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Thanks for joining us 12 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: live from Washington, where we're keeping our masks handy. After 13 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: the CDC reversed its guidance from May to advise fully 14 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: vaccinated people begin wearing their masks again in public indoor 15 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: settings in areas where the virus is spreading rapidly. We'll 16 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: talk about it straight head with Bloomberg Health editor Drew Armstrong, 17 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: as well with Larry Gostin, an expert on global health 18 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: law at Georgetown and the World Health Organization. Later we'll 19 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: take a look at infrastructure, and we're gonna bring you 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: inside the first hearing of the House Select Committee investigating 21 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:19,559 Speaker 1: the attack on the Capitol. Conversations today with Congressman Ralph Norman, 22 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: Republican from South Carolina, and Democrat Tim Romer, former congressman 23 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: former member of the nine eleven Commission. The new guidance 24 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: came down from on high today in arias with substantial 25 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: and high transmission, CDC recommends fully vascinated people wear masks 26 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: in public indoor settings to help prevent the spread of 27 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: the delta variants and protect others. This includes school CDC 28 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 1: Director Rochelle Welanski, in a briefing you heard live on 29 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio a short time ago, fully vaccinated people wearing 30 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: masks againing at least in some places, and joining us 31 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: to talk about a Bloomberg Health editor Drew Armstrong, Thanks 32 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: for being here, Drew. We can add another log on 33 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: this fire. President Biden now also acknowledging today that they 34 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: are talking about the possibility of mandating vaccines for the 35 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: federal workforce. Things have changed a lot, even in the 36 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: past couple of weeks, Drew. Where are the areas that 37 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: people will have to start wearing masks again. You know, 38 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: the way that CDC is putting this is that, UM, 39 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,960 Speaker 1: it's these areas where there is lots of virus circulating, 40 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: and right now that primarily means UH, you know, the 41 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: American South, UM in particular, but you know, we're also 42 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,839 Speaker 1: seeing some of the big US urban areas fall under 43 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: UM the scope of this as well as UH, including 44 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,280 Speaker 1: you know, most of New York, UM, you know, Los Angeles, 45 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: San Francisco, Houston, Dallas, Boston and Phoenix. So UM. You know, 46 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: this is a lot of the country right now that 47 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: is being guided to you know, put masks back on 48 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: UM when they are in these indoor read settings. We 49 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: just got a note a couple of seconds ago from 50 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: the press pool following the Vice President Kamala Harris. The 51 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: pool has been told to wear masks. They were given 52 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 1: masks and told to wear them. Apparently Harris also masked. 53 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: Is the White House next? You know, I think that 54 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:20,800 Speaker 1: really remains to be seen. One of the things that 55 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 1: we know from UM, you know, the CDC call that 56 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: we just have, they said this delta variants acting somewhat 57 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: differently than prior variants that they have been monitored and 58 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 1: closely one of the things that that includes is, you know, 59 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 1: there have always been these breakthrough infections where vaccinated people 60 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: do get infected with the virus. The question is do 61 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: they become symptomatic and then uh do they spread it 62 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: to other people? And they're seeing more instances where people 63 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: who have been infected with DELTA, despite being vaccinated, are 64 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: spreading the virus to other means that you know, you 65 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 1: don't have the effect of breaking some of the chains 66 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 1: of transmission in those cases, uh that that you usually 67 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: would hope to have UM to vaccine. They did emphasize 68 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: that the vast majority of spread is happening amongst unvaccinated people, 69 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 1: and I did think that that is important to keep 70 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: in mind. True, thank you for the insights we bring 71 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: in Larry Gustin, now Director of the O'Neil Institute, Chair 72 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 1: in Global Health Law, Georgetown and director of the World 73 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,919 Speaker 1: Health Organization Center on Global Health Law. Professor, thanks for 74 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: being here, lovely to be here. Thank you for having me. 75 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: How significant is this and how worried are you about it? Well, 76 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,280 Speaker 1: you know, I'm worried about where the United States UM 77 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: is headed. UM. I do foresee that we're going to have, 78 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 1: you know, spikes in cases, you know, probably sweeping right 79 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: across the country. And when people come back in September 80 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:46,720 Speaker 1: to work in school, UM, we're going to see um 81 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: uh higher caseloads because of all the travel across the 82 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: United States. UM. So that worries me. We're not going 83 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 1: to see the same level of hospitalization and death um 84 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 1: that we did um in the really dark days. UM. 85 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 1: But I'll say this, UM. You know wall CDC, you 86 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: know it's absolutely right to firm up on its mask guidance. 87 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: I think it may have lost the confidence of the public. 88 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: This is actually the third change in masking recommendations in 89 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: three months. It's a bit head spinning certainly what we've 90 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: been hearing, and a lot of people say, well, why 91 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: would I get a vaccination if I still have to 92 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: wear a mask? Uh. I know that you work with 93 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: the World Health Organization and you've been helping you advise 94 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: the Biden administrations throughout this. Would you have told them 95 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: or did you tell them that this was the right 96 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: thing to do? Yes? But in fact, um, when they 97 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: when the initial um CDC guidance on masks came out 98 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: where they recommended the vaccinated people needn't wear masks, that 99 00:05:55,520 --> 00:06:00,080 Speaker 1: was in May. I recommended absolutely at that time and 100 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,920 Speaker 1: that that was the wrong decision to make because it 101 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: was entirely predictable that everyone would take off their masks, 102 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: whether vaccinated or not. That's exactly what's happened. And I'm 103 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: afraid that with the third set of recommendations now it's 104 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: going to be hard to put the genie back in 105 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 1: the bottle. You know, people have taken off their masks 106 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: and I can't see um people masking up. Um in 107 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: fact that but specifically can't see unvaccinated people that masking 108 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: up because if they won't vaccinate, they probably won't put 109 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: on a mask either. Well, so where are we going 110 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: to be in a couple of weeks or months? Then, professor, 111 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: if if if we're in that world, we potentially have 112 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,799 Speaker 1: a country that could be reinfected, we do as I say, UM, 113 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: we are going to see worrying spikes in cases. UM, 114 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: but we're not going to see our hospital hospitals filling 115 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: up the way we did because we've we've got too 116 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: many people that are vaccinated, certainly not enough, but too many. UM. 117 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,799 Speaker 1: You know, I have an op ed coming out in fact, 118 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: it's out now, um today Uh in the Daily Beast basically, um, 119 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 1: you know saying that that you know, in some ways, 120 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: you know, we've lost the battle on masks. We now 121 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: need to work on mandatory vaccinations, and we're seeing more 122 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: and more cities and states requiring vaccination of their workers. Um. 123 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 1: And even in the federal government, the Department of Veterans 124 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 1: Affairs have have issued a mask mandate, a vaccine mandate. 125 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: And I really do think that the way to go 126 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: is to have businesses, colleges, universities require vaccination. That's the 127 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 1: only way that gets us out of this. Now, talking 128 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: with Larry Gustin, professor expert on global health law at 129 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: Georgetown and at the World Health Organization, as we try 130 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: to get our heads around this updated guidance from the CDC, 131 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: if we had not taken our masks off then professor 132 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,600 Speaker 1: back in May, would we be here now? No, we wouldn't. 133 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: Um we we We would certainly have a little bit 134 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 1: of a spike uh in cases because you know, we 135 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 1: can't underestimate the power of this delta variant um, but 136 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 1: we would have nothing like the level of cases that 137 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: we have now. We do know that masks work if 138 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: everybody wears them, and particularly you want people to wear 139 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: them in crowded indoor settings. Um. And uh, that's a 140 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 1: small inconvenience in exchange for a big payoff and lowering 141 00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: the number of cases, hospitalizations and depths. So you know, see, 142 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: it was an own goal by the c C. I 143 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: love the CDC as an agency. It's the shining star 144 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: of our federal agencies and the v of the world. 145 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:00,080 Speaker 1: But I do think they've got it wrong. Um. And 146 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 1: now they're trying to correct it, but it may be 147 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: a little too late. This is disheartening to hear from 148 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 1: the director of the World Health Organization Center on Global 149 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: Health Law. As we spend some time with Larry Gaston, 150 00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: professor as well from Georgetown Law, and I ask you, 151 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: from a legal standpoint, you talk about these mandates, professor, 152 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,760 Speaker 1: will they not result in a pile of lawsuits? The 153 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:25,679 Speaker 1: will result in a pile of lawsuits because America is litigious. 154 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 1: No matter what you do, you're going to get lawsuits. Um. 155 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: But businesses are on very firm ground. Um. The Equal 156 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: Employment Opportunity Commission has said that businesses and universities can 157 00:09:41,200 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: require vaccines. Um. Just this week, the Office of Legal 158 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: Counsel as the Department of Justice reaffirmed that I think 159 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: it's clear that even under an emergency use authorization COVID 160 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: nineteens vaccines can be mandated by the private sector and 161 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 1: s be UM hospitals, workplaces, h colleges, universities. That would 162 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: get us a long way. I also think frankly that 163 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: UM President Biden should set in an example and require 164 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: vaccines in the military and in the civil service UM. 165 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: And that would also encourage states and localities to do it. 166 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: For example, in New York City, uh as as UM 167 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: required vaccines vaccinations of its workers UM, and so is California. UM. 168 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 1: And so I think, uh, you know, the time is right, 169 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: UM for us to really take vaccination much more seriously. 170 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: It's we've been too casual. We've we've begged, we've pleaded, 171 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: we've cajoled, we've offered incentives, and we're still not budging. UM. 172 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: So we need to do is make vaccination the default choice, 173 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,960 Speaker 1: the easier choice. UM. And there should be so certain 174 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:10,599 Speaker 1: consequences UM for not being vaccinated. UM. They needn't be draconian. 175 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: And I don't want to punish her shame anyone, because 176 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 1: these are all good people. UM. But I do think 177 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: that you know, if we require vaccination as a condition 178 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: of going to work or school, and if you say no, 179 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 1: then you should have to mask up and regularly test. 180 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: Most people won't want to get tested twice a week. 181 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 1: They'll just get the JAB and be done with it. 182 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: Very Gaston, global health law expert at Georgetown Law and 183 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 1: the w h O, thank you for being here on 184 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: an important day. You're listening to Bloomberg. You sound on 185 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio with Breaking News today 186 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: on the mask guidance from the c d C will 187 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: start there. President Biden says, yes, they are considering a 188 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: vaccine mandate for federal workers. That's under consideration right now. 189 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: That if you're not vaccinated, you're not really as smart 190 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: as I thought. He says, it's under consideration. And if 191 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: you're not vaccinated, you're not as smart as I think 192 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: you are. CNN, as you just heard from Charlie now reporting, 193 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: the President will announce that requirement. And as we told 194 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: you earlier, the press pool surrounding the Vice President was 195 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: given masks to where a short time ago, the VP 196 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:33,239 Speaker 1: Kamala Harris had went on too. The White House Correspondence 197 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,360 Speaker 1: Association Since we took air today announcing that it is 198 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: reimposing it's mass mandate. That's for reporters in the White House, 199 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: and now headlines are moving as we speak. The White 200 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,199 Speaker 1: House staff will be required to mask up once again. 201 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: Staff got word on that a short time ago. That 202 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: news breaking since we got on the air less than 203 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: twenty minutes ago earlier. White House Press Secretary Jen Saki 204 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,680 Speaker 1: was pressed on the timing of the new Man guidance. 205 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: Just weeks after President Biden declared a summer of freedom. 206 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: He made clear that it was not over, that those 207 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: who were unvaccinated were still at risk. He made clear 208 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: that you were protected from uh serious illness diza, our 209 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: hospitalization if you were vaccinated. Went back to the tape 210 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: he was President Biden on the fourth of July five 211 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: years ago, we declared our independence from a distant king. 212 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: Today we're closer than ever to declare our independence from 213 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: a deadly virus. That's not to say the battle against 214 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen is over. We've got a lot more work 215 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: to do. Fast forward to the seven July, and we're 216 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: joined now by Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie she and Zano 217 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: and Rick Davis. Thanks for being here as always, Genie. 218 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: Is it possible the White House is doing the right 219 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,239 Speaker 1: thing with all these headlines and also creating a credibility 220 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: problem for itself at the same time. In one word, yes, 221 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: this makes sense. The c d C guidelines, what the 222 00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: White House has said and what it is planning to 223 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: do makes sense from the health perspective. In areas where 224 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: the virus is spreading, as Drew was telling you earlier, 225 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: for example, in parts of the South, you need to 226 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 1: mask indoors, whether you're vaccinated or not. It all makes sense. 227 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: The problem here is one of communication, and I was 228 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: so I couldn't agree more with your previous interview with 229 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: Professor Gostin when he said, for the third change on 230 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: masking requirements, the danger here is that the c d 231 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 1: C loses the public's confidence or and that is a 232 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: real problem. So to me, this is an issue of communication. 233 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: The President gets ahead of himself talking about a summer 234 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: of freedom. Now you're telling people vaccinated I have to 235 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: go back and wear masks. This is not the way 236 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: to handle the communications and of a health policy scare 237 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 1: like this, and that is a problem for the White House. 238 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 1: How do they do with the rollout on this or 239 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 1: are doing this? Is happening be for our eyes here? 240 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: How would you have advised the president on this? Well, 241 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: the biggest problem is he's leading from behind. I mean 242 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: you look at what's already happening around the country. Major 243 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: corporations are requiring vaccines. California's requiring vaccines for you know, 244 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: their state workers. New York City is requiring vaccines. I mean, 245 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: why wasn't the federal government ahead of all this? Right, 246 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: they're the ones with the data, They're the ones with 247 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,560 Speaker 1: the ability to direct the country towards a certain outcome. 248 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: I mean, Larry Goslin, who you were just talking to, 249 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: was talking about federally required vaccinations back in February. So 250 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: I think they've just lost the initiative here. And uh, 251 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: they got a lot of people still hundred million people 252 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 1: not vaccinated, and they've been trying to control them to 253 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: do it. And now at least they can set a standard. 254 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: If you haven't required the federal workforce to do it, 255 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: why do you expect anybody else to do it? So 256 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 1: I think this is just a classic example of letting 257 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: the problem get ahead of the solution. The solution is 258 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: these mandated vaccines and insomuch as you're going to put 259 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: a band aid on the current public health problem get 260 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,240 Speaker 1: people back in masks, but that does not cure the problem. 261 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: Vaccines cure the problem. Jennie. We've talked about the way 262 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 1: some big Wall Street banks are handling this, along with 263 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: some other companies, and in hopes to get workers back 264 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: in the office at some point this fall, we're still 265 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: looking at a lot of empty offices. How will this 266 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: play for the private workforce. I think they are going 267 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:27,360 Speaker 1: to do what we're seeing more and more of both 268 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 1: public and private organizations do, which is make it easier 269 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: to get vaccinated than it is to be unvaccinated. And 270 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: that's quite frankly what has to happen. Requiring people to 271 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 1: wear masks and to regularly test is onerous, it's frustrating, 272 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: people don't like to do it. It's far easier to 273 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: get the vaccination once or twice and be done with it. 274 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: So I think that's what they're gonna do, and legally 275 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: they can do it. The federal judge looking at the 276 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: Indiana University case supported it, even though the FDA has 277 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: not fully approved it. And I can't go back and 278 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: say strong enough that FDA approval is key. Many people 279 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,520 Speaker 1: on vaccinated go back and point to that as a 280 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,360 Speaker 1: reason why the government shouldn't be requiring this. So that's 281 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: something the government's got to handle. Our colleague Eric Wasson 282 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,960 Speaker 1: just tweeted the c d C has now moved d 283 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: C the district of Columbia to orange, meaning substantial transmission. 284 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:21,880 Speaker 1: Meaning Fully vaccinated people should wear masks indoors in public 285 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,720 Speaker 1: per new guidance. That is apparently why the press pool 286 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: surrounding Kamala Harris today was given masks, although it appears 287 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 1: that starting imminently, reporters in the mansion in the West 288 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: Wing will be masked up at all times. I suspect 289 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: we'll see Joe Biden wearing a mask soon as well. 290 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: There was some drama today and what was the first 291 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: hearing of the House Select Committee on January six. We 292 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 1: heard from four police officers who defended the capital, including 293 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: Michael Fannone who was dragged into the crowd and beat me. 294 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:55,480 Speaker 1: Suffered a heart attack and a concussion that day, and 295 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: he became emotional in his testimony. I feel like I 296 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: went to Helen Beck to protect damn in the people 297 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: in this room, But too many are now telling me 298 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 1: that hell doesn't exist, or that Hell actually wasn't that bad. 299 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: The indifference shown to my colleagues is disgraceful. Silence in 300 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: the room as we bring in. Congressman Ralph Norman, Republican 301 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,680 Speaker 1: from South Carolina, talked about this and funding for security 302 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: in the capital. Congressman, welcome back, my honor to be 303 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 1: with you, Joe, Thank you for having me. I have 304 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: to ask you about some of the testimony we heard today, Congressman, 305 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 1: from some of the police officers. And I know this 306 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,480 Speaker 1: commission has been surrounded by politics, by controversy, but I 307 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: wanted to ask you specifically about the officers and whether 308 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: you were moved by what you heard. Oh yeah, how 309 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,199 Speaker 1: could you not be? I mean, the officers are the 310 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: brave people that at the front lines. They're the ones 311 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: that faced the riot as they're the ones that we're there. Now, 312 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,560 Speaker 1: what's being hell now? Is you know they call it 313 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: by Parson? How is it by partisan? When Pelosi kicks 314 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: off the people that she thinks we'll ask tough questions 315 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: and kinds and banks and Jordan's and then puts her 316 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,719 Speaker 1: people in. Now, you've got to be moved by the offices. 317 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 1: But get this for your listeners. We had an oversight 318 00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 1: hearing and the theme of the supposedly theme of the 319 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 1: hearing was to get to the bottom of what happened 320 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,199 Speaker 1: on January six. Guess who was not there? The Capital 321 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: Hill Police represented the Speaker of the House, who was 322 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 1: ultimately in charge of it was not there. UH. And 323 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,719 Speaker 1: so that this is all a charade to try to 324 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: put the UH, put the blame and the focus on 325 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: a President Trump who's no longer there. Look at the 326 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: problems we've got in this country. Look at the borders, 327 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: look at the cities are on fire, look at inflation. 328 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 1: I mean you go down the list, and not solving 329 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: any of the nation's problems. They're trying to keep focused 330 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: on Donald Trump so they can keep their power. And yes, 331 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: I feel for the Catholic Hill Police. I the truth 332 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: always comes out. It will take time. I will tell you, 333 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 1: the truth will not come out with Adam Shift on board, 334 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: with Liz Cheney on board, UH and and and others. 335 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: So yes, I move, But then I see it for 336 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 1: what it is, which is just a camouflage to address 337 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 1: the real problems of America. Well, staying away from the 338 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: committee then for a moment, I know you voted against 339 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: the resolution to give the Congressional Gold Medal for instance, 340 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: to those officers. Would you vote the same way after 341 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 1: hearing from them today? You know what's hypocritical, Joe, is 342 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: to to give gold medals when this administration under nast Palos, 343 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: who wants to defund the police. Now, where are medals 344 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,399 Speaker 1: for the the during the riots, the police officers that died? 345 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: Where is the true um, I guess feelings empathy for 346 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 1: the officers who are who are killed in the line 347 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 1: of fire as as we speak and growing, where's the 348 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: empathy for the twin yate who are ambushed? I mean, 349 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: it's so hypocritical. And I talked a lot of officers 350 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: because I had a couple come by and asked me 351 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: why I did what I did. I said, Yeah, would 352 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 1: you rather have uh medals from a administration who's doing 353 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: everything they can to fight you? I mean, how does 354 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: defunding and given a few medals for the optics it makes? 355 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: It makes no sense to me, And yeah, I vote 356 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: against it again. And uh, if you really had the 357 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,479 Speaker 1: heart to to help our police officers, UH double their 358 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 1: budgets in many cases, don't defund them like to trying 359 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: to do and and and and have some empathy for 360 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 1: those who are putting their life on the line, because 361 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: I know of no um, no state that has an 362 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: abundance of those who are protecting us, which is our 363 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: frontline police officers. And Nancy Pelos is directly to blame 364 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 1: in her administration. Well, and I'm not trying to put 365 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 1: one group of officers against another. I just know a 366 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: hundred and forty police were injured that day, and of 367 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: course one was killed. What are you inheartened them to 368 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: see that we have a deal. I guess on capital 369 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: security at least it's on the committee level that would 370 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 1: help to pay for security improvements and in fact fund 371 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,760 Speaker 1: capital police. Well I would find capital police. But you know, 372 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: if it's so again, it's hypocritical. Uh. They want to 373 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:26,119 Speaker 1: protect the politicians, what about protecting the average American who 374 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: is getting beat up on the streets. Now, again, what 375 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 1: they say versus what they vote do are two different things. 376 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: And that's my whole issue with with what they're trying 377 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: to do. The optics and the cameras come alive when 378 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: they think they're selling their message, but it's just not true. 379 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: But no. I, UM, you know, it's it's a disconnect 380 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: that is there and the police officers see through it. Look, 381 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: I would like nothing more than to get to the 382 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: bottom of actually what happened. Who knew what? Um? Everyone 383 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 1: knows that they had advanced notice. Now why or they 384 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 1: not better prepared? That's what we need to see. But 385 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:08,120 Speaker 1: we've got a you know, what happened in January six 386 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,639 Speaker 1: is coming gone. We've got we've got issues in this 387 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: country that you know that need to be addressed, and 388 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: this is just a cover up to try to address 389 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: that and keep it on. Put the blame on Donald Trump. 390 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: We heard from Officer Michael finnone and all we can 391 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: wrap it after this. Congressman, I just I'm curious to 392 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: hear your reaction to the things he said today. And 393 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: he said the indifference showed to my colleagues is disgracefully said, 394 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: some elected officials in the capital betrayed their oath. Who 395 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: was he talking about? I have to ask him. I 396 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 1: have no idea. All I know is, um, there were 397 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: from what I understand, there are a number of agencies 398 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: that reported real problems that were going to occur, and 399 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, they didn't have I mean you saw 400 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: the pictures. You had some people coming in unhindered, you 401 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: had others who who battle it. So I don't know 402 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 1: who they were talking about. All I know is the 403 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: result was unfortunate. The lives that were laws were unfortunate. Uh. 404 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: And you know, if we had a true hearing made 405 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: up of people who really wanted to find out the truth, 406 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: I would be all for it. And this is just 407 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 1: not the venue, nor is Miss Pelosi. Uh. She's putting 408 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: politics back in something that politics has no play at 409 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,480 Speaker 1: this in my opinion. Congressman Ralph Norman, we appreciate the 410 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 1: insights today. Thanks for coming back to talk to us 411 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,440 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio. My pleasure, Joe, thank you. January six 412 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 1: committee has begun its work, as you were just hearing 413 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Sound on testimony from the police officers who 414 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: fought the mob that day, and after our conversation with 415 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 1: Congressman Norman, we talked about what the investigation may accomplish 416 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: with former Congressman Tim Rohmer, Democrat from Indiana, served on 417 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:54,879 Speaker 1: the nine eleven Commission. It's also ambassador to India. Mr Ambassador, 418 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 1: welcome back to Bloomberg Radio. Joel always a pleasure to 419 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 1: be with you and look forward to catching up. Do 420 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,639 Speaker 1: you have unique experience, of course, having served on the 421 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,879 Speaker 1: nine eleven commission, And I wonder what you make of 422 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: this exercise now. I saw you tweeting about it in 423 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: advance of and during the hearing. How legitimate is this 424 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: panel's mission? And are you bothered by the political theater 425 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: that has surrounded it? Well, my background, Joe, is you 426 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:24,800 Speaker 1: alluded to. I remember vividly the events of nine eleven, 427 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 1: when our country was viciously and savagely attacked by terrorists 428 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,040 Speaker 1: trying to do us harm and trying to hurt our 429 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,359 Speaker 1: form of government and our freedom and our constitution. January 430 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:41,160 Speaker 1: six is a similar day in some way. We had 431 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:45,640 Speaker 1: terrorists the police officers today, and the congressional testimony referred 432 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: to these UH mobsters the insurrectionists on January six as terrorists. 433 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 1: And you could tell by how emotional the police officers 434 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 1: were today in their testimony. They not only acted our country, 435 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 1: our constitution, our capital from being attacked by these vicious 436 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: uh UH terrorists as they were called, but these police officers, Joe, 437 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: as you heard, feared for their lives. One of them said, 438 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: just in this riveting testimony. These uh, these attackers wanted 439 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: to take my gun from me and shoot me and 440 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: kill me with my own firearms. So it was. It 441 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 1: was riveting, compelling. Now this committee, which has to be 442 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: non partisan, has to be non political, has to be 443 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: after the truth. They can't be Democrats to Republicans. They 444 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,159 Speaker 1: gotta be Americans first and foremost to seek truth and 445 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: answers why did this happen on January six, Who did it, 446 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: how did it happen, and what do we do next 447 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: about it. One of those officers you're referring to, I believe, 448 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 1: Michael Finnone described being pulled into the crowd, being beaten, 449 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: suffering a heart attack and a concussion in the middle 450 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 1: of it, and to your point, was lucky to not 451 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: have his firearms taken away from him. He had a 452 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: very important message today for elected leaders, he said, questioning 453 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 1: what went on that day, and as he pointed out, 454 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: not supporting his colleagues, here's what he said. Being an officer, 455 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: you know your life is at risk whenever you walk 456 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 1: out the door, even if you don't expect otherwise law 457 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: abiding citizens to take up arms against you. But nothing, truly, 458 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: nothing has prepared me to address those elected members of 459 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: our government who continue to deny the events of that 460 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: day and in doing so, betray their oath of office. 461 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: Do you believe, Ambassador, that these lawmakers he did not 462 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: name them, betrayed their oath? I certainly think that there 463 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: are Republicans that have put obstacles, challenges, barriers in front 464 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: of getting to the true is here. I worked very 465 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:06,040 Speaker 1: hard with Republicans and Democrats to try to create an outside, 466 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: independent nine eleven style commission on the outside of politics 467 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: to look at the facts. On January six, we got Joe, 468 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: as you remember, two fifty two votes in the House, 469 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: uh to one that was a butt whipping and anybody's 470 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: you know, sports categorization of a vote that was overwhelming. 471 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,200 Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans working together to pass it. Then it 472 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 1: went to the Senate and the Senators tried to block 473 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: it with procedural motions, with uh, you know, ancient mechanisms 474 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: to put h you know, all kinds of hurdles of 475 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: We needed sixty votes to try to get this passed. 476 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: We got up to fifty seven, and uh, fifty seven 477 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: to something like thirty five would have voted the favor 478 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 1: of this in the Senate. So that's another overwhelming vote 479 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: of support to do this in a bipartisan way to 480 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: look as Americans at this. I hope the Senate has 481 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: another vote. I think we could get to sixty. I 482 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: think this Select Committee should continue to do its work 483 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: as it did today in this riveting, compelling, very very 484 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: interesting testimony. Now they need to build on this. We 485 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: should have an inside Congress investigation and an outside independent 486 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,479 Speaker 1: nine eleven style investigation as well. Well, we're talking with 487 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: former Congressman Tim Rohmer, Democrat from Indiana, former Ambassador to 488 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: India about today's first day. It was the first hearing, Ambassador, 489 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: did you hear anything new? And if not, what do 490 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 1: you want to hear in the ensuing days. What I 491 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,440 Speaker 1: found so interesting was, you know, one of the police 492 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:46,440 Speaker 1: officers said, you know, the terrorists came prepared. They had 493 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: armored best, they had bear spray, they had tasers, and 494 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: they were going to kill us. Now we've heard some 495 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 1: members of Congress say, well, this was just kind of 496 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: an average tourist day shoe you know, I've given tours 497 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,400 Speaker 1: of the Capitol off My concision was from Indietta before. 498 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: People don't brave drink, bear spray and tasers and guns 499 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: and molotov cocktails to a tourist event. So let's let's 500 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: realistically and practically approach this from the facts. Learn what happened, 501 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,760 Speaker 1: How did they plan this, how how far and ahead 502 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,720 Speaker 1: of time of January six? Were people talking about this 503 00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 1: on the internet. Who helped them organize this, whether it 504 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,600 Speaker 1: was pay for buses, pay for transportation, pay for hotels, 505 00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: who instigated the attack on the Capitol. Was there any 506 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: help that they got once they got up to Capitol Hill? 507 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,040 Speaker 1: Did somebody help these folks try to plan to get in, 508 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,080 Speaker 1: provide maps to them, try to help them breach our 509 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: constitutional process of peaceful transfer of power, counting the votes 510 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,160 Speaker 1: from one presidential election to another. That, again, Joe, is 511 00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: a sacred event in American politics. So from a values 512 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: point of view, from a point of view of constitution, 513 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: from protecting our law enforcement officers, all those reasons compel us, 514 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: compel us to get to the facts on this. Tim Romer, 515 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,200 Speaker 1: former Congressman from Indiana, former Ambassador to India, and of 516 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: course a former member of the nine eleven Commission, We 517 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: thank you for your insights today, Joe. Thank you to 518 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 1: my pleasure. As we turned back to Bloomberg Politics contributors 519 00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: Genie she and Zano and Rick Davis. Now, so we 520 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 1: now have a deal, if you didn't hear this earlier 521 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: in the hour, to spend two billion dollars. This is 522 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: a Senate deal to improve security at the Capitol. Rick, 523 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,480 Speaker 1: did today's testimony results in that deal? The House passed 524 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: it's version back in May. It's been sitting around since then. Absolutely, 525 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 1: there's no question that part of what this Commission is 526 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: doing is keeping a spotlight on what happened on January six. 527 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 1: All these funding mechanisms for improved security have been bottled 528 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 1: up in committees, and today we saw the Appropriations Committee 529 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: UH come out with a bipartisan UH fully funded opportunity 530 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: to increase security, UH, increase manpower UH, and also clean 531 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,320 Speaker 1: out a few cobwebs on some other issues. A real 532 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: bipartisan agreement that would not have happened today. May have 533 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: happened later, but it didn't wouldn't have happened today without 534 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: this Commission in this hearing today, And as we noted, 535 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: it funds the Capitol Police, reimburses the National Guard. As 536 00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:25,240 Speaker 1: we run out of time, I have to get to 537 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 1: a topic that my gosh, we've waited fifty three minutes 538 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: to mention infrastructure. This is a day to remember here 539 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: because we've been talking about it all day, every day 540 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: for more months than we can count. I spoke about 541 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: it with Congressman Ralph Norman, who you heard earlier in 542 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: the broadcast. Republican from South Carolina asked him if he 543 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: plans to vote no, and he does. I would like 544 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,200 Speaker 1: to say it depends on whether it's tied to reconciliation, Joe. 545 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: But with this administration, nothing is tied to anything rational 546 00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: or reasonable, So no, I'm not gonna I don't expect anything, Jennie. 547 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 1: We've talked about some of the headwinds that this deal 548 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,959 Speaker 1: would face in the House, but we still don't have 549 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: a deal in the Senate. The more time goes by 550 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,480 Speaker 1: means what with regard to this bipartisan arrangement. Well, Joe, 551 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,040 Speaker 1: I want to thank you, because you know I can't 552 00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: go an hour without talking about infrastructure, So thank you. Um, yeah, 553 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,760 Speaker 1: you know, to me, I'm not surprised at Representative Norman 554 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 1: is is voting no. There is no legislation yet. We 555 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: may see a bill tomorrow Thursday. Who knows. But again, 556 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 1: I think the real challenge here is what he just said, 557 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,400 Speaker 1: is this linking and is Nancy Pelosi gonna stick to 558 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: our promise that she said over and over again about 559 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: the House not voting on the bill at least the 560 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,479 Speaker 1: bipartisan bill until they see the reconciliation bill. That I 561 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,760 Speaker 1: think is the sticking point at this moment, and that 562 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: may just be her playing politics, who knows. But if 563 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: she sticks to that, I think it makes this thing 564 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,920 Speaker 1: that much tougher to get a bipartisan bill out. Headline 565 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: on the terminal Rick Infrastructure gang targets pharma to pay 566 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 1: for Rhodes bridges. We have a new pay for senators 567 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,960 Speaker 1: considering changes to drug policy medicare as. I read in 568 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:11,240 Speaker 1: the sub headline. Hunt for funding intensifies as lawmakers finalized package. 569 00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: Is taking a little money from pharma helped win any votes. 570 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 1: Taking a little money from everybody helps to win a 571 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: little Volks, anything you can do to not have to 572 00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: raise taxes is going to help make Republicans more confident 573 00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: of this bill. And so you know, follow the money. 574 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: Farma has had explosively positive years. I mean, they're one 575 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: of the industries that have done well through COVID, and 576 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,000 Speaker 1: so let's go pick their pockets and see what we 577 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,480 Speaker 1: can get in order to blunt some of the debate 578 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,960 Speaker 1: on pay for US. I think it's creative, and I 579 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: think these guys are scrambling to get a deal done 580 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 1: and they want to make you the believer. They want 581 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: this to be infrastructure week when it ends. Yeah, well, 582 00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: but it's not yet. Tomorrow's Wednesday, Ricked. Does each day 583 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: make this more difficult or are we just making too 584 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 1: much out of it in the media. No, I think 585 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: it actually makes it easier with each day passing, because 586 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: their backs are up against the wall with August recess. 587 00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: They want to go home, they want to get out 588 00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:07,240 Speaker 1: of Washington. It's hot here, it's human here, there's nothing 589 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: good happening inside the Beltway. And so the pressure is 590 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 1: going to mount every single day, every hour between now 591 00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:14,879 Speaker 1: and then when they want to get out, and they're 592 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,399 Speaker 1: gonna try to get a vote done at least on 593 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 1: this culture procedure before they get out. And that's the 594 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,759 Speaker 1: pressure they met. Last night's I suspect again on at 595 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: least zoom or the phone tonight, because we're dealing with 596 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,439 Speaker 1: masks again here, Genie do you see a deal before 597 00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,200 Speaker 1: the end of the week. I see a piece of legislation. 598 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: We may see something of vote for culture, we may 599 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,880 Speaker 1: see something out of the Senate. But again, let's stress 600 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,239 Speaker 1: this is not a piece of let's station, this is 601 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: not a bill on infrastructure. It's it's part of a 602 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: reflection of their agreement that's got a long way to 603 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: go before it's law. We'll take another swing tomorrow. Of course, 604 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: our Bloomberg Politics contributors Genie she and Say No When 605 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,120 Speaker 1: Rick Davis will be with us. Big thanks to Jennie 606 00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: and Rick. As always an all of our guests on 607 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 1: the program, learn a lot. As ever, I'll meet you 608 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: back here tomorrow on the fastest hour in politics, Bloomberg. 609 00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,560 Speaker 1: Sound on, This is Bloomberg.