WEBVTT - White American Psychosis 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:14.680 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to ook F Daily with 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:19.800 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Home Bunker, Folks. 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:24.000 As I mentioned on Friday, today, I get into a 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:29.200 really great conversation with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:34.680 where we talk about the country music singer Jason Alden 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:40.519 and his white supremacist video, and what that means, what 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:47.199 that states about our country, about what is deaned as 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:52.280 okay that what Jonathan will bring up is a fact 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:57.640 that these people who are applauding Jason Alden are the 0:00:57.800 --> 0:01:03.600 very same ones who degraded athletes like Colin Kaepernick for 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:08.080 taking a knee. Jason Alvin is singing about shooting people 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:12.000 up or beating the crap out of them, acts of violence. 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:20.679 Funny because he was at one of the wildest mass 0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:23.640 shootings that we've seen that happened at a concert he 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:28.480 was performing at in Las Vegas, where fifty eight people 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:36.280 were murdered, and this is him singing about murder and 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:40.960 violence and guns. Yet these would be the same people 0:01:41.880 --> 0:01:46.480 that would wave their finger and try and cancel rap 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:52.559 artists for doing talking about I won't even say doing 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:58.120 I will say talking about their lived experience. I'm just 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:00.840 so sick of the bullshit folks. I have to say. 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:06.080 And you know what ended up happening is that after 0:02:06.120 --> 0:02:11.320 the recording that we did with Jonathan, watched as Jason 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:17.320 Alden rose on the iTunes charts. Because that's what whiteness does. 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:23.840 It protects itself. Not only should his music have been 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:27.760 pulled and his music video have been pulled by CMT, 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:35.160 his entire catalog should be pulled from various streaming platforms 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:39.560 because he's a racist, He's a bigot, and instead of 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:43.200 us in media are trying to part and parcel. Well, 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:44.840 I don't know what he meant, and I don't know, 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:46.959 and I don't know, and I don't know. Take people 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:52.360 out their fucking word, right the same way that I 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:58.600 talked about Tommy Tuberville. Take people. Take these white cis, 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:04.240 hetero supposed Christian men, these white supremacists, take them at 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:09.440 their word. Stop giving them an opportunity to apologize for 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:16.960 what they know is fucking egregious and disgusting. I'm so 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.760 sick and tired of providing racist with the benefit of 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:28.440 the fucking doubt because they do not deserve it. It's enough. 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:38.040 Coming up next, my conversation with our friend Jonathan Metzel. Folks, 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:40.640 you know that whenever we have the opportunity to speak 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.440 with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzil, I am 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:49.720 always thrilled. And today we're gonna talk about entertainment and 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:56.480 I'm using air quotes because controversy that our friend Jonathan 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.880 brought my attention to. As many of you know who 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.160 listen to me, country music may not be my favorite 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:09.520 at all of music selections and genres, but Jason Aldan 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:15.880 has made headlines and has had a recent video pulled 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:20.640 by CMT and Jonathan, why don't you bring us into 0:04:20.920 --> 0:04:22.000 the why of the matter. 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:25.039 Well, yeah, I'm glad we're talking about this because it 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:27.760 hits home where I live in Nashville. And also, as 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:30.800 you know, my new book looks at music and guns 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:34.279 and violence, and so it's a playing out of a 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:38.200 lot of things I've been thinking about. But basically, there 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.839 was a there's a country music star who happens to 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:46.320 also be Jason Aldine, the same music star who was 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:51.560 on stage during the Las Vegas mass shooting. Right, remember 0:04:51.800 --> 0:04:53.160 there was a guy who was up in. 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:54.080 The Oh my god. 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:58.440 Yeah, so this guy has actually seen a mass shooting 0:04:58.520 --> 0:05:00.880 up close and personal because he was on stage. 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:03.240 You are you gotta be kidding, man. 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:07.200 No, it's true, it's true. And the thing is, after 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:10.320 that mass shooting happened, he had sent out, you know, 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:13.400 can't we all come together and this is a time 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:15.599 for us to bond. He was actually a hero to 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.000 many people at that time because he was basically saying, 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.120 we have political divisions and now's a time for us 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:24.680 to come together. And so in a way, you know, 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:29.160 here's somebody who saw this life event and was calling 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.880 for common purpose and finding some common reason and can't 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.800 we come together across political divides? And that was kind 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:38.320 of the last that people like you and me who 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:40.760 aren't country music bands had thought about. It was like, cool, 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.080 here's somebody who's among the good guys, of which there 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:46.560 are many many in country music. And then kind of 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.400 out of the blue, this song comes out that's basically 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.719 a version of a kind of riff off of the 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:56.559 You'll pry my gun off my out of my cold 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.440 dead hands Charlton Heston kind of deal, which is basically, 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.080 you don't know what it's like to live in a 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:04.920 small town. You liberals want to come take our guns. 0:06:05.000 --> 0:06:07.599 You'll never do it. You'll never get down the street 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:11.359 before we shoot you. And there were so many i 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:15.320 would say problems and unforced errors with this video that 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.640 he put out. One is that he shot the He 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:24.880 shot the video in front of town hall in Tennessee 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:29.000 where there actually have been lynchings of black people early. 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:33.160 Yes, let me just let me just say for folks. 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:39.120 In a Hill article that was covering this story, they 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:42.280 said that the song was released in May and had 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:45.520 been heavily criticized in recent days after the release of 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:48.560 the video, which was filmed in front of a courthouse 0:06:48.600 --> 0:06:53.320 in Columbia, Tennessee, where black man was famously lynched in 0:06:53.360 --> 0:06:56.800 the nineteen twenties. And in the video, the courthouse is 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:01.680 projected with images of violent protests and chrome acts, including 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:05.480 demonstrations from the Black Lives Matter movement in twenty twenty. 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:09.680 Right, And so this is to be honest, this is 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:11.720 obviously not the first time we've seen this. I mean 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:16.600 NRA TV didn't add about gun rights right after George 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:20.480 Floyd that had black Black Lives Matter protesters. There's many, 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:24.760 many histories of this exact genre, but somehow like this 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:29.320 particular issue, this particular timing. It really touched a nerve 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:32.080 and a lot of people, Shannon Watts was tweeting about it, 0:07:32.120 --> 0:07:35.640 and other people who were gun safety advocates, and it's 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:39.600 just been it's been a it's honestly for me, been 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:43.080 depressing and terrifying because, first of all, here's a guy 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:45.920 who really should know better, like this guy has seen 0:07:46.920 --> 0:07:49.520 this guy's seen it up close, and so to then 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.400 put out this like right wing you're not going to 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:57.200 take my gun's video with this video and these lyrics, 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.800 it just it's just I guess I don't know. This 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:02.560 is my question is like what happened, Like, are the 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:05.680 market forces so strong right now going toward trump is 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.640 and fascism that basically this is what happens is it 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.800 draws the market toward the right, and people say like, 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:14.120 oh my god, this is the this is the market 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:18.320 is to say we're victims of the liberal mob. And second, 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:22.200 it's just so flatly not true in so many ways, 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:24.160 which I'll just list a few of the ways that 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.840 this whole thing is not true. First is people are 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:31.360 pointing out he's actually not from a small town, he 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:34.800 lives in Nashville. Of course it's not And so Nashville 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:37.160 has like a million and a half people, and so 0:08:37.240 --> 0:08:39.720 it's not like he doesn't live in a small town. 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:42.280 So this is like a guy who lives in a 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:46.240 city or suburbs kind of playing this idea of what 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:48.240 it means to be in a small town. So that 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:49.240 that's not Wait, I want to. 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:51.160 Wait, wait before you go on to number two, I 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:54.319 just want to give folks a lyric from the song 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:59.040 that goes just to that point. Ye he sings, and 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.719 again I'm going to use that in quotations. Got a 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.520 gun that my granddad gave me. They say one day 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:09.240 they're gonna round up Well, that shit might fly in 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:11.199 the city, good luck. 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:14.600 And the thing is like, first of all, dude, you 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:18.760 live in a city that Second of all, nobody's rounding 0:09:18.840 --> 0:09:22.200 up anybody. Like the idea that people are rounding up people, 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:26.960 it's that's just like, that's like a it's a suburban myth, honestly, 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.959 that people are coming to round up people's guns. So 0:09:30.000 --> 0:09:32.880 it's that's the narrative that the NRAA puts out every 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.680 time there's a mass shooting. You know, Obama's coming to 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:38.440 take your guns or blah blah blah. Fill in the 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:41.440 blank is taking your guns. Nobody's taking anybody's guns right now. 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:44.760 It's just like we've got four hundred and fifty million 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:47.120 guns in this country. I don't think anybody has a 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:49.480 car big enough to like load up people's guns in 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:53.320 the first place. But so number one is it it's 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:56.920 playing off of this you know, you city people are 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:00.000 coming to take our guns, which very flatly is not true. 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:05.960 For him in particular. Number two is, of course, you know, 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.400 I work on gun suicide and the idea that like 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:13.320 small towns are these safe locations where all the urban 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:16.959 black people are protesting, and that's what we need to 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:20.280 protect ourselves. Like, that's the narrative that is just so 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.240 flatly not true. I mean there's the first of all, 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:25.800 are a lot of mass shootings that happened in small towns. 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:30.520 But then also overwhelmingly the most common cause of gun 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:32.840 death is gun suicide, which is what I showed in 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:37.160 Dying of Whiteness, which happens very often in small towns. 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:42.520 And so it's again replaying this very racialized, politicized myth 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:46.920 of what gun violence is. And then the third part 0:10:47.000 --> 0:10:51.520 is this guy in particular was in a city, Las Vegas, 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:56.160 where he actually saw a real mass shooting that actually 0:10:56.559 --> 0:11:01.400 was brought upon country music people and so and so 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.760 it's just it's so it's I guess for me. Number one, 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.720 it's stupid, right, it's a it's an enforced error. But 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:11.600 number two, is the market so skewed right now? Like, 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:14.840 is the market so skewed that even people who like 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.000 were in the center before have to like, I'll use. 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:22.200 A but I don't. I don't know, Jonathan, because here 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:25.160 here's the thing. One, I don't want to call this 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:27.360 an unforced error. This was not an error. 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:28.080 Yeah, this is a. 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:32.439 This This was not an error on his part. This 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.080 was a literal and I and I and I, you know, 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:39.120 tongue in cheek. I actually don't mean to say this, 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:42.040 but I can't think of another term. This was a 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:46.840 shot at him trying to get relevance and grab headlines. Right. 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:51.280 I don't. Again, I don't pay attention to country music 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:53.800 at all, But I don't think that it's often that 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:58.160 people's music gets pulled. When your music gets pulled, you 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:02.560 have crossed like a line. And you know, and I 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.920 think that again, this is not We live in a 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:11.160 time of clickbait of really egregious and over the top 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:16.000 behavior to grab headlines, to grab clicks, to get views, 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.520 to get likes, right, And that goes for you know, 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:23.280 a regular person on the street who's doing who's pulling 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:26.800 a stunt to celebrities, right, So they're not above this. 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:30.040 And I think that for his point when I find 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:35.160 the most egregious about this, aside from the song being horrible, 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:39.240 aside from being in front of a building that was 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:44.920 the site that of a quote unquote famous lynching, aside 0:12:44.960 --> 0:12:49.120 of all of that, his lie, right, this is what 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:52.560 he says about his own song, Try that in a 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:55.520 small time. Try that in a small town. For me, 0:12:56.160 --> 0:12:58.640 refers to the feeling of a community that I had 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:01.920 growing up, where we took care of our neighbors regardless 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:05.520 of differences of background or belief, because they were our 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:10.360 neighbors and that was above any differences. You're a fucking liar, right, 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:15.240 So let's start out right there, because you're putting up 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:19.480 images of black people in a pandemic being forced out 0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:23.560 into the streets to defend their right to exist, and 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.920 you're using that as a way to say we need 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.320 to protect our small towns, when you know, for that 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:34.960 none of those protests were happening in small fucking towns, right, 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:39.160 They were happening in cities and suburbs where the shootings 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:42.359 of unarmed black people are at an all time high. 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:46.520 These quote unquote white small towns don't have diverse neighbors 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.800 because they've either burned the towns that were close to 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.360 them to the ground write or circled their quote unquote 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:56.800 wagons and created policies to make sure that people who 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.000 didn't look like them weren't allowed in that same space. 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.520 So let's tell the truth from the beginning about the 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.520 history of the places that you're talking about with regard 0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:10.200 to small town that have still have sunset laws on 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.720 the books that if a black person were to be 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:16.280 found there after sunset, they could be murdered and all 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:19.400 would be fine. So it's just like, it's the idea 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:23.040 to me that he's talking about, how dare people infer 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:28.520 racist elements? And I'm that I'm pro lynching. This is 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.360 what he says in this in this interview that he did, 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:34.120 how dare people do that? When I don't talk about 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.160 that at all. You don't have to say the N 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:39.040 word in order for people to think that you're a racist. 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:44.400 The entire song to me just is is stench. The 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:45.680 stench of it is there. 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:48.360 Well, and let me be very clear, like there are 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.880 like this is This has led to a pretty important 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.520 debate within country music. Like there are a lot of 0:14:55.080 --> 0:15:00.320 very incredible socially conscious artists. Jason Isbel for a sample, 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.280 has been incredible. He's been pulling out of events and protests. 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.280 There are there are there. So the debate within country music, 0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:11.880 I think about this about whether Elding was canceled, you know, 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:14.320 which is of course the minute any protest comes up, 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.720 then it's like, oh, you're canceling me. But but it'll 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.160 be interesting to see how country music responds, Like I 0:15:19.160 --> 0:15:22.560 think it's actually pretty unprecedented for CMT to pull this 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:27.920 also and so and so it'll be interesting to see 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:30.360 where this leads in country music. But there is a 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.760 debate in country music which is similar to debate in 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:34.960 our country. And I just want to be clear that 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:38.320 not everybody's on the same side, but I just want 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:40.680 to I just want to reinforce a point you just made, 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.840 which is the issue is not just about his personal 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:47.640 racism or his intention. And I'll say that because when 0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:51.160 I was doing my interviews for Dying of Whiteness. I 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:55.280 would do these interviews with people in the middle of nowhere, Missouri, 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:58.040 and they would basically say, I would say, like, why 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:02.080 do you have a an AR fifteen with you? And 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:06.440 they would always cite Ferguson, Missouri, like you know, a 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.280 gang banger might come here from Ferguson, Missouri. I see 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:13.680 what's happening in Ferguson, Missouri. And these were interviews that 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:17.440 were being done maybe two hundred miles from Ferguson, Missouri, 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.280 two hundred fifty miles from Ferguson, Missouri, and really among 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.160 the whitest parts of Missouri, there was not a Black 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.960 Lives Matter person for literally hundreds of miles, or. 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:30.240 A black person for nearly hundreds of miles. It's really 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:30.760 alone and. 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:33.880 Act it was. It was in the book. I think 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:36.920 I call it like a looking into a bucket of 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:39.240 rice or something like that, like it just it was 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:41.280 a bunch of It was just like a lot of 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:43.520 white people in this area, which is fine, I mean, 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.440 this is where they live. But the idea that this 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.680 was happening in Ferguson meant that people were strapping up 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:52.440 because this thing I and I would say, well, look, 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:54.720 it seems to me like the protests are actually happening 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:59.080 in Ferguson, right, It's not happening here. But they were like, well, 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.640 it could come here, they could come take my staff 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:03.400 and stuff. So it was this idea of the reason. 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:08.000 Well like like, it's the I got to tell you, like, 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:11.600 I know that your next book is about, you know, 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:16.680 is about gun culture in America. But this fucking psychosis 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:21.520 that white people suffer from in America that like Fox 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:25.760 News and Magadam has been able to exacerbate but has 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:30.840 always been prevalent, is absolutely crazy. To me. It is 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:32.520 it is a deep psychosis. 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:34.840 Well, and let me be clear that the point I'm 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:40.360 making is that it doesn't matter if Eldin was himself racist. 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:43.680 He's tapping into that narrative, right, and so the problem 0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:47.879 isn't his intention or even his exact lyric. The problem 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:50.520 is that he's tapping into that intention that we need 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:54.240 to arm small towns because there are protests happening in Ferguson. 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:55.960 And so whether or not. 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:58.679 No one wants to go to your small town, I 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.600 also want to be very clear about that, Yeah, nobody's 0:18:01.640 --> 0:18:03.119 fucking interested. 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:04.880 That's I would kind of when I would do these 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:08.080 interviews and people really were convinced that people were going 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.159 to come to their town and steal their big screen 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:13.880 TV that they had mounted on their wall and then 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:16.240 take public transit home and I and it was so 0:18:16.359 --> 0:18:19.320 weird because I kept thinking, like, first, there's no public 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:23.800 transit here whatsoever, because that actually requires taxes. But also like, 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.520 nobody wants your big screen TV, like they probably have 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:31.159 a better TV already. And so but this idea that 0:18:31.200 --> 0:18:34.040 somebody's going to come take my staff or my privilege 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.200 or my job or my wife like that is the 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.719 anxiety of whiteness in America a lot of times, and 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.400 so it taps into it. And so again I just think, 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:46.800 I just think that. And again the frustration for me, 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:48.960 you can hear it in my voice, I hope, is 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:52.919 that here's an artist who had actually overcome these divides 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:56.120 and said, look, man, I've seen this horror upfront firsthand, 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:01.879 and let's overcome our division. So here's somebody who was 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:05.240 like on the side of, like at least on paper, 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.600 on the side of like, let's overcome our political divisions, 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:14.040 who's now instead doubled down on some of the worst 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.520 stereotypes that tear people apart, which is this stereotype that 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.199 black people are going to come take our stuff and 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:24.040 that's why we need a gun. And so to me, 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:29.240 that's my frustration is like I don't know, like like 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:31.800 I don't out Danielle. I don't mean to be like 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:33.800 the straight guy today, but I really am the straight guy. 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:36.360 I'm trying to say, like even as like a white American. 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:39.800 I mean, I've studied this stuff forever, and it's like 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:43.159 the narrative is so consistent, and I can you know, 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:46.560 I can show you and add that NRA television did 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:49.080 three years ago, which is black people are coming for 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:51.000 your stuff and this is why you have to be armed. 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:56.639 And when I just I like express it enough that 0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.440 like I don't want your shit, but I. 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:03.359 Mean and and the other narrative is like remember the 0:20:03.440 --> 0:20:07.280 mccloskey's in Saint Louis. You know, like, oh, black people 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.520 are marching by our house and they probably want our shit, 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:11.440 and so we got to stand out there with guns. 0:20:11.440 --> 0:20:13.640 And so this idea that basically people want our shit, 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:18.040 it's such a deep anxiety. And the thing is that 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:21.000 the answer is to say, the answer is to say 0:20:21.000 --> 0:20:23.679 what Aldine said the first time, which is like, hey man, 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.400 let's overcome our divisions and figure it out and work 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.280 create a system that works for everybody. But this narrative 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:32.760 that people are coming for your stuff, and it's obviously 0:20:32.800 --> 0:20:36.159 not just about stuff, it's about social position and hierarchy 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:39.520 and country and sexuality. 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:42.919 I look, I look, here's the thing, Like you and 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:46.320 I both understand this. What I want to break through 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:52.480 without having to do like docuseries after docuseries, or like 0:20:52.720 --> 0:20:56.480 reporting on people's anxiety, is that like, because I don't 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:59.760 care about white people's anxiety, what I care abit about 0:20:59.880 --> 0:21:04.760 is how their anxiety fuels public policy right that destroys 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:09.920 other people's access to anything right, whether that be a job, 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:14.320 higher education, like the ability to buy a home where 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:17.040 they want to how they want to. Like, that's the 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.399 fucking problem. That's where the investigation is. Is that you 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:25.240 is that White America has made up an entire boogeyman 0:21:25.400 --> 0:21:28.040 of people that are coming to take their stuff from them. 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:31.720 When no one wants your stuff. They want the ability 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:35.199 to be able to buy their own stuff, to be 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:39.040 able to buy their own fucking property. And you've created 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:43.679 policies based off of your fucking anxiety and psychosis that 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.640 disallows people from being able to do so. And then 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:51.719 you want to hide right and hoard your privilege and 0:21:51.760 --> 0:21:55.680 all of your shit. And it's just like you're hoarding 0:21:55.800 --> 0:21:58.880 it because you know that you don't fucking deserve it. 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:01.720 Like That's the other thing, too, is that this all 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:04.840 comes back to a place of, well, I don't want 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:07.280 to be treated the way that I have been treating 0:22:07.600 --> 0:22:12.160 these groups of people for generations, right, Like that's that's 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:15.400 the thing is. It's like the psychosis that fuels the 0:22:15.440 --> 0:22:20.320 policy that leads to the oppression and suppression then fuels 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:24.080 the anxiety and the fear you have about those people 0:22:24.280 --> 0:22:27.679 whose boots you have on their neck rising up to 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:31.159 take back what you have extracted from them. 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:33.680 And the other part of that is that then when 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.960 you get called on it, you claim that you're a 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:39.000 victim again, like, oh, it's cancer culture, and. 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:41.320 It is it is the way it is. It is, 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:45.399 like I got to tell you that, Like, you know, 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:48.480 there are some days when I pray for alien invasion 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:52.879 because like I just want to be fucking done. Like 0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:56.639 because it's just so like every time you think that 0:22:56.720 --> 0:23:01.960 you make inroads, you realize that the rod is just 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:04.840 so deep, and there are questions that I have on 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:07.879 a regular basis where I'm just like, maybe you just 0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:10.840 throw away the whole. Maybe there is no more amputation 0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:13.880 to do, Maybe there is no more surgery to do. 0:23:14.960 --> 0:23:17.240 I mean, the problem, though I hear this a lot, 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:18.920 the problem is if we burn it down, we would 0:23:18.920 --> 0:23:21.959 still be negotiating with the same people to build it 0:23:22.000 --> 0:23:26.000 back up. I mean, I agree with you, it's just 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:28.119 what does that mean exactly? Like, what does that mean 0:23:28.160 --> 0:23:29.040 in practical terms? 0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:32.440 I have no idea, Jonathan, but I know that there 0:23:32.480 --> 0:23:37.160 are days, there are months, there are years where I 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:40.200 am just I'm over it, like and I you know, 0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:43.280 God blessed the fact that there are younger generations that 0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:47.439 are coming in with more energy and more information and 0:23:47.520 --> 0:23:50.359 more education that I had at their age to be 0:23:50.440 --> 0:23:52.280 able to pick up the mantle, because I got to 0:23:52.280 --> 0:23:57.439 tell you that, like, I understand the burnout, I understand 0:23:57.560 --> 0:24:01.400 the exhaustion because it's just like it's never ending, right, 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:04.239 and that's what it's like. What is the solution. I 0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:06.679 don't know, but it can't be banging my head against 0:24:06.680 --> 0:24:09.080 the fucking wall on a day to day basis, do 0:24:09.080 --> 0:24:11.480 you know what I'm saying? Like it can't be battling 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:15.400 against the great grandchildren of the slave master. They're still 0:24:15.440 --> 0:24:18.439 begging for liberation, Like it can't be that, do you 0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:21.280