1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Ye 2 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank 3 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 1: you so much for tuning in. First things first, if 4 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: you have not listened to our excellent I'll say it 5 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,800 Speaker 1: excellent episode Part one of our continuing series on Kate Warren, 6 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,960 Speaker 1: please stop today's podcast hold on listen to part one. 7 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: I'm saying it's great, not necessarily because well certainly not 8 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: because of me, not even because of my coast, but 9 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: we have a very special guest on that episode. You 10 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: don't want to miss it. Go ahead, will wait one? Okay, 11 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: that should do it? Hi am ben Hi, I'm no. 12 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: That's another example of the magic of podcasting because you 13 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: can just freeze time or accelerate it. Or are you 14 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: one of those ones who listens to podcasts that the 15 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: quadruple speed? You monster, You should be ashamed of yourself. Anybody, 16 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 1: Casey Supertacher, Casey Pegram No. I find that just terrifying 17 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,520 Speaker 1: that people do that, That people like to X their 18 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: way through a series or something. I feel like you're 19 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: missing all the nuance and all the humanity when you 20 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: do that. It's just like a big information download into 21 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: your brain. Yeah, I've done it before, but it's if 22 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 1: you're gonna mess with the speed, I think it's it's 23 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: much more fun to take that chopped and screwed remix 24 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: approach and slow the host down because because there's nothing 25 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: there's nothing quite as hilarious as hearing some of your 26 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: favorite podcasters sound like they're on a mix tape that way. Um, 27 00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: But speaking of favorite podcasters, Ole super producer Casey Pegram, 28 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: I think it's official that you and I have a 29 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: brand new favorite podcaster who is actually working with us 30 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:13,640 Speaker 1: on today's episode. Is that correct? Um? I can say that. 31 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: I don't want to speak for Casey program. I mean 32 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: he could have had a horrible time last episode. I 33 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: don't think that's true. Casey, No, No, I'm not many 34 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: great time as well fantastic. So I think we're all 35 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: in agreement. Yes, our new favorite podcaster is with us 36 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: againd Today Joe Piazza, author, um journalist and podcaster, host 37 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: of the new series in conjunction with the Tribeca Film Festival, 38 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: Fierce About Badass Women. Joe, thanks for coming back for 39 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,959 Speaker 1: part two. Guys. That was the nicest introduction ever. I 40 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,239 Speaker 1: want to take you with me to parties. I want 41 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: you to introduce me to my husband. That was that 42 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: was just so wonderful. We are available for introductions for hire, um, 43 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: sort of like what's that thing where you hire celebrities 44 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: to like wish your birthday, wish to your your kid 45 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: or whatever cameo. We'll do that, but exclusively with introductions. 46 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: I love it, love it all right. It's a good 47 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:02,120 Speaker 1: side hustle, goodside hustle. I want if I want a 48 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: piece of that pie. Everybody needs one. So yes, everybody, 49 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: everybody needs a hustle. Um, But a hustle can be tough, because, 50 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: let's face it, folks, not everybody is as versatile as 51 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: our protagonist today, Kate Warren, now ridiculous historians. When last 52 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: we spoke, we were building up to what many people 53 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 1: consider a pivotal event in American history, and one that 54 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: doesn't get as much attention as it should. So now 55 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 1: our story shifts to eighteen sixty one. Kate Warren has 56 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: established her bona fides as the first female p I 57 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: in the United States. She is frankly kicking ass and 58 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: better than a lot of the dudes who were her 59 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: co workers. But trouble is on the Horizon. Kate Warren 60 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: is literally kicking ass and also taking names, taking a 61 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,119 Speaker 1: lot of names. Find an out names left and right, 62 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: taking names. She's naming names. You know, she is undercover 63 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: and in full effect. Um, And I think that we 64 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: can say with with some certainty, and I feel confident 65 00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: saying this that Kate Warren actually, in the next story 66 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: that we're going to tell you saved America in a way. 67 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: She she protected the country in an incredibly important way 68 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: with with what she pulled off. Next agreed, Yeah, and 69 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: that's not hyperbole. I don't think that's hyperbolic at all. Uh, 70 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 1: what are we talking about? Well, well, here's the lay 71 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: of the land. So there's this guy. His name is 72 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: Samuel Morse Felton, and he's he's a big deal. He's 73 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: kind of like the monopoly Man character. He's a railroad 74 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: magnate if you're being nice, a railroad tycoon if you're 75 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: being honest. And he, uh, he knew that Lincoln, his 76 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,599 Speaker 1: his buddy, Lincoln's inauguration was coming up in March of 77 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty one, and then he had this terrifying light 78 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,839 Speaker 1: bulb moment of an epiphany where he said to himself 79 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 1: you know, secessionists are all around the country. The country's 80 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,039 Speaker 1: lousy with these people. They're dangerous and they're getting more 81 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 1: and more dangerous by the minute. And they hate Abraham Lincoln. Yes, 82 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: secessionist of the ones who just like vehemently opposed, uh, 83 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 1: the idea of abolishing slavery. They wanted to se see 84 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: from the Union, you know all that, um. But yeah, 85 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: it's true. In eighteen sixty one, this train trip was 86 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: going to happen and uh, and Lincoln's pal realized, Okay, 87 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 1: this could be problematic, so they decided that he needed 88 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: kind of a cover, um, so that it wouldn't be 89 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 1: you know, quite as obvious which train car he was on, 90 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,800 Speaker 1: and for this leg of the trip in particular. Well, 91 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: and it's worth noting too that the Secret Service didn't 92 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: exist at this time. So Lincoln, who is the president elect, 93 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: who is traveling to Washington, d C. For his big inauguration, 94 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: huge deal about to completely change the course of history, 95 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 1: which the secessionists knew. And that's why where they were 96 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: so terrified of him and why they wanted to destroy him. 97 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: He had no protection. He he did not have armed guards, 98 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: and him and Samuel Morris Felton. We're trying to figure 99 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: out how can he get to Washington, d C. For 100 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: this inauguration, um without being killed? And really quickly, I 101 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: just want to point out, um, we know Lincoln was 102 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: an incredibly device to figure These secessionists absolutely hated him 103 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: because they knew, um what he stood for and what 104 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 1: he had planned. Essentially, he was getting all these death 105 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: threats and and one of these is the weirdest, weird 106 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: flex death threat I've ever heard of in my life. 107 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: It's my favorite. Yeah, no, no, no, no, okay, Well 108 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: what have you a knife? I get that? Okay, you're 109 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: coming for me? A bullet maybe with my name written 110 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: on it? That? How about a spider filled dumpling? You 111 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: never see it coming. The spider filled dumpling sounds like 112 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: something out of it, like that scene where in the 113 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: Chinese restaurant, you know, and like all like the fortune 114 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 1: cookie turns into an eyeball and he got the dumpling 115 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: with spider's crawl. I mean, this is comical, but you 116 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: know effective. They definitely we're sending a message, and Lincoln 117 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: knew he wasn't safe, especially in these territories where secessionists 118 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: were a little more prevalent. Yeah, you can't. You can't 119 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: keep an eye on every single spider filled dumpling. That's 120 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: just the reality of the country Lincoln was living in 121 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: at the time. So they had to figure out something 122 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: to your to your excellent points here. So Samuel Bors 123 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: felt it meets up with Pinkerton the agency and and 124 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:36,880 Speaker 1: and Pinkerton says, Okay, we've looked through the death threats, stumplings, knives, bullets, 125 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: et cetera at all, and we feel like we have 126 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: pinpointed the area where we are most likely to see 127 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: They called it a true threat, but we're most likely 128 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: to see action coming out of all this equivalence of 129 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: nineteenth century hate mail. And they said this threat is 130 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: most likely to happen in Baltimore because out of all 131 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: the spots on your itinerary, Baltimore is the only major 132 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: slaveholding city. Yeah, it was. It was a hotbed of 133 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: successionist activity at the time. And now, of course I've 134 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: got good Morning Baltimore running through my head. Really, Bob, 135 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,120 Speaker 1: thank god, I don't know this song. Is this like 136 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: a more actual morning show theme? Oh no, no, no, no, 137 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: no no, it's it's a wonderful musical ode to the 138 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: grittiness of Baltimore. Just google it later, you'll enjoy it. 139 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 1: I need to learn more about Baltimore. I've only been 140 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: once and it is a really interesting city. Obviously, a 141 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: lot of what I know about Baltimore comes from the 142 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: amazing HBO series The Wire. So Felton and Pinkerton met 143 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: up in my hometown of Philadelphia and they devised a plan. 144 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, they said, Okay, Baltimore is a powder keg right, 145 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: and we don't want you Lincoln to be the non 146 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: consensual match to the flame here. Uh but we can't 147 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 1: get around Baltimore because, in addition to being a major 148 00:08:55,200 --> 00:09:00,839 Speaker 1: slaveholding city, every single inauguration route that we can think 149 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: of means that we have to stop in this city. 150 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:05,800 Speaker 1: We have to stop it like one of the worst 151 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: cities for you. Bro. Uh So this is dangerous because 152 00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 1: you are not on the train the whole time. This 153 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,680 Speaker 1: is the really crazy part. He's switching to a different train. 154 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: You're gonna arrive, they say, to Lincoln at one train station, 155 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: but then you have to get off and you have 156 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: to travel a full mile to a second train station. 157 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: And that is where we think if there is an 158 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: attempt on your life, it will occur. And so this 159 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: is this around now is when they brought in Kate Mortn. 160 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: And Kate was such an asset to them in this 161 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: investigation because, as we talked about in the last episode, 162 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 1: she was so good at disguises, and Kate, even though 163 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: she was we believe that she was something of a Yankee, 164 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: was very good with a Southern accent, and so she 165 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: could put on a Southern accent and try to infiltrate 166 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: some of these secessionist groups. According to an actual quote 167 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 1: from the time, adopting a thick Southern accent, the New 168 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: York native transformed into Mrs Cherry Mrs m Barley, a rich, 169 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: flirtatious Southern lady in town from Alabama to socialize at 170 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: classy secessionist gatherings. Oh, Mama, you find you find gentlemen 171 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: given me the vapors, I do declare Mrs Mrs Cherry 172 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: or Mrs mbally, depending on all your lacking, sir, well, 173 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: are you towel glass? You now go on and tell 174 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: me about y'all's plans exactly, Oh my god. And you 175 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: know she would she would like crash these secessionist parties, um, 176 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: which I love and she would often be I learned 177 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: a new word today. I think we learned another new 178 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: word in the last episode. But this is my favorite cockade. 179 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: You say, you know those ribbons you get when you 180 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,599 Speaker 1: win like a like a like a prize, or that 181 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: emoji for like you know you did good, like a 182 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 1: blue ribbon, those things are called cocky aids. That's a 183 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 1: not of ribbons. The signaled Southern sympathies. I'm gonna say 184 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: it again, cockade. So she would wear one of those 185 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,839 Speaker 1: to indicate her secessionist sympathies. And she again posed as 186 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: a Southern socialized lady of great finery from Alabama, and um, 187 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 1: that's exactly what she did. She infiltrated these parties and 188 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: began to gather intel, and turns out that the plot 189 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: that they thought they knew about was just the tip 190 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 1: of the iceberg. Yeah, this is this is a really 191 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: good point because it goes back to one of our 192 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 1: earlier stories about Kate Warren or should I say Mrs 193 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 1: m Barley in this case, you know, she was of 194 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: northern birth right, so she needed to rep Southern in 195 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: a convincing way. And this is this is so brilliant. 196 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: She used her previous research on that Adams Express Company 197 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: robbery and her involvement in that or her involvement in 198 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: catching the thieves. Uh, And she said, I'm from mcgomra 199 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: alibi Amma. She was super familiar with it because she 200 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: had spent so much time cracking that case and boom 201 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: it worked. I mean, she's amazing at this. Yeah, And 202 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: that's why in the TV series, even though each episode 203 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: is really a different case that she's cracking and she did, 204 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: they all build on each other, right, So she's got 205 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 1: all of this knowledge from this case that she cracked 206 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:22,680 Speaker 1: from Monk I'm real Aabama. She's bringing it to the 207 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: secessionist parties. And it's worth noting here too that the 208 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: secessionist parties were fancy like these weren't just a bunch 209 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,880 Speaker 1: of like brawlers in a bar. These were some fancy 210 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,520 Speaker 1: rich people's secessionist parties because those were the people that 211 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:39,319 Speaker 1: were desperate to protect their way of life at the time. 212 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: And Kate became really good at floating in and out 213 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: of that kind of fancy rich person society, and in 214 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 1: a way that had to be really hard, because it's 215 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: it's not easy to present yourself into a kind of 216 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: click like that, and yet she was she was just 217 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,839 Speaker 1: such a butterfly on the wall that she was able 218 00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: to get into these parties and get the information that 219 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 1: she needed and ultimately the information that would save Abraham 220 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: Lincoln's damn life. No, it reminds me of that scene 221 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: and Inglorious Bastards where they're in the Nazi bar and 222 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: they're posing as Nazis, and was that I'm backing you up. 223 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: I'm hyping ridiculous story. You can't see. You can't see 224 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: what I was doing. Brilliant on an audio podcast. But 225 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,120 Speaker 1: I love this scene you're talking about Ben Ben pulled 226 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:25,719 Speaker 1: up three fingers like this. I thought it was a 227 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 1: symbol representing something that I was either missing in the 228 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: story that I was about to tell. But no, thank you, 229 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: my friend. I appreciate the backup. I think we all 230 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: love that scene. It's one of the most tense scenes 231 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,840 Speaker 1: and in recent memory in a film. I really love it. 232 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: But no, it's that kind of tension of like, you know, 233 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: if she had been found out, not to say they 234 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't necessarily executed her on site, but not to say 235 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,679 Speaker 1: that they wouldn't have I don't know, and they had 236 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: the money to get away with it too. I want 237 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: to go to this point that you you established, no 238 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: uh that got you got. I love our dramatic structure here. 239 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,960 Speaker 1: I think we're killing this honestly. So there's this point 240 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: where Kate learns, as as you alluded, tounal, the full 241 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: depth of the conspiracy, how real it is, how serious 242 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: it is. Casey, I'm gonna ask you for a dramatic 243 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 1: sound queue. Heads up, there's a new player entering the chat, 244 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: as we say in today's parlance, is a man named 245 00:14:29,720 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 1: Cipriano Ferrandini. He's he's he's Italian, and he loves the 246 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,400 Speaker 1: Italian Revolution. And he says, I'm gonna, you know, take 247 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: the same stuff from the Italian Revolution to what I see, well, 248 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 1: what they would sometimes refer to as the Southern Cause 249 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: ak secessionism. And I picture, I mean, I I just 250 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: can't help picturing um Cipriano Ferrandini. I'm picturing him as 251 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: this very like phlamboyant, outspoken Italian man. In my head, 252 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: he wears a cape. He where's the cape all the time? 253 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: What is the style of his mustache? In the in 254 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 1: your mind's eye, oh see, in my in my mind 255 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: we've got a curly queue. We've got a long, skinny, 256 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 1: curly queue. We're on the same page. What a what 257 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: a rascal? He really seems like a classic would tie 258 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,600 Speaker 1: a Damsel in distress to the train tracks type villain, 259 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: you know, uh, Mr Ferrandini. Um, So it's true. He 260 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: there was a thing that he observed in the Italian Revolution, 261 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: sort of like a method of of let's call it 262 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: a diversion um, the idea that a mob would kind 263 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: of flock around Lincoln like like you do, even if 264 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: it's not threatening. Although if you were that guy like 265 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: I would terrify me. Like I always wonder what would 266 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: be like to be one of those boy bands where 267 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: it's just you can't go to the mall without getting mobbed. 268 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: You know, this doesn't sound like much fun to me. No, 269 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: thank you podcasting life for me. But yeah, while that 270 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: was happening, another group, secondary group, um would create a 271 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: diversion or a distraction that would draw the police away 272 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,880 Speaker 1: from the scene. And this is interesting. Beforehand all of 273 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: the dission the successions would draw ballots to the side. 274 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: Who was going to shoot link him? Who gets to 275 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: shoot Lincoln? I mean, if there's there it's a very 276 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: Julius Caesar kind of feel to it, right like, And 277 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, actually several men 278 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,360 Speaker 1: drew the ballot that they would be able to shoot Lincoln, 279 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: which again to kind of spread the culpability around um, 280 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 1: around the would be assassins. Yeah, yeah, and it's it's brilliant. 281 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: One question that's kind of lost to history is whether, 282 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 1: in casey I expect the sound cue every time we're 283 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 1: using this guy's name, is whether Cipriano Ferrandini actually informed 284 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: his co conspirators that more than one person would draw 285 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 1: the ballot. There's redundancy in there in case somebody, um 286 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: chickens out or has a sudden moment of clarity, crisis 287 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: of consciousness. But as we know Pinkerton, Okay, they hopped 288 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: to it, and they tell Abraham Lincoln about this plot, 289 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: and he hears about it, what does he do? Can 290 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: I really quickly backtrack just to Cipriano Ferrandini, Why what 291 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: would it would have been about the Italian Revolution or 292 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: about his Italian roots that would have caused him to 293 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: sympathize with the secessionist cause or to be so overtly 294 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: like racist. Was that a thing in Italy around that time. 295 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 1: I know it was like, you know, worldwide, but was 296 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 1: Italy a country yet it was? It was a sort 297 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: of a mixed tape of states, right, Yeah, I don't 298 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 1: think it wasn't garab Baldi was Garabaldi the eighteen fifties 299 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: of the eighteen nineties, Joe, Yes, I think that's correct there, 300 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 1: because I'm not going to make you do it again, Casey, 301 00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I don't want to. I don't want to 302 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:49,200 Speaker 1: abuse your generosity here. But this guy CF was familiar 303 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: with the eighteen forty eight revolutions in the Italian states. 304 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: I believe that we're part of the larger, more widespread 305 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 1: revolutions in Europe overall. Um Italy has had had for 306 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: a long time difficulty forming a sustainable countrywide government. So 307 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: as far as this guy's uh inspiration, it's funny because 308 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: he started as a hair dresser. I don't want to 309 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 1: take away from course he did. I told you, I 310 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 1: meant my My description of him, even though I've never 311 00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: looked at a picture of him, feels so right on. 312 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 1: So he was barber is a hair dresser, but he's 313 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: a he's a dangerous guy, I guess not to answer 314 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: your question, it feels like he always had that racism, right. 315 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: I don't think you could support secessionist and not be 316 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: racist at the time. Um. And so maybe he was 317 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: just known for bringing some real world, firsthand experience to 318 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: the would be revolutionaries and secessionists here in the States. 319 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: What do you think that sounds about right to me? 320 00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: Can you guys see my screen? Yeah, he doesn't. He 321 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: does not have a curly Q mustache. I don't know, 322 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: it's just pretty well quoft. It looks like a barber's mustache. Uh. 323 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:11,439 Speaker 1: He's a little older than I expected. Um where he bespectacled, 324 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: kind of gentlemanly looking dude with the boat tie. But 325 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 1: I want to assume that this was in his later 326 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 1: twilight years. The Cipriani Barondini of our story was much 327 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: more than Lothario asked character than we have discussed. But 328 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: let's not get caught up in this gentleman because things 329 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: escalate pretty quickly, uh, and move forward. Um, and that's 330 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 1: when the Pinkerton's swoop in and um kind of save 331 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 1: the day. Yeah. So, so the thing is that this 332 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 1: guy they're quiet is going to be president of the 333 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: United States, so they can't really pull the leash on 334 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: him too hard. Ultimately, if this guy is like, Hey, 335 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: I appreciate the work you've done, but I'm gonna be president, 336 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: so I'm gonna do what I want, uh you guys, 337 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: And he pulled like a tim gun move in my 338 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,480 Speaker 1: head and he's like, just make it work. We're going 339 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: to Baltimore. Yeah. They I mean, they couldn't. They couldn't 340 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,160 Speaker 1: get him to not go through Baltimore. And they're telling him, 341 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: They're like, you're going to be murdered in Baltimore, and 342 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: he was like, I'm I'm going anyway. This is my day. 343 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,640 Speaker 1: And they eventually did convince him to go to Baltimore early, 344 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:19,479 Speaker 1: so everyone is expecting him in Baltimore a little bit 345 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: later than he actually got there, and that is part 346 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: of what helped foil at least part of the plot 347 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: that Cipriano Ferandini was levying against the President. I love. 348 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: I love the kind of subterfuse, very simple one that 349 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 1: they employed here. They made Lincoln get rid of his 350 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 1: signature stovepipe hat, and as we know, he's a quite tall, 351 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 1: skinny dude, so they had him kind of hunch over 352 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: and covered him with a shawl. And I love this 353 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: quote us from the mental flass article. And I love 354 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 1: that the way this is presented here covering Lincoln in 355 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: a shawl and declaring him frail, It's like this, this 356 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 1: is a frail creature here they had to declare there 357 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: at every every time they met somebody knew. Um, they 358 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: hit him in one of the sleeper cars of one 359 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: of the regular passenger trains, not in like the presidential 360 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: you know whatever campaign type compartment. So um, the assassin 361 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: that would be assassins would have thought that he was 362 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: traveling in one train, but he was actually in another compartment. 363 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:24,280 Speaker 1: He was able to uh break off from the caravan. 364 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: Um in under cover of night. Can you picture that 365 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,879 Speaker 1: conversation of trying to get Lincoln to take off his 366 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 1: signature hat like that hat's his thing. I'm sorry, but 367 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: this is this is my look, this is my brand, 368 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: Like I I pictured, I picture that is being very difficult, 369 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: and we should talk about how instrumental Kate Warren was 370 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: in sneaking him around. So yeah, they get Lincoln to 371 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 1: take off his fancy had and they get him to 372 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: stoop over a little bit, and they cover him with 373 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: a shawl and a cape. But it was Kate's job 374 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: to pose as his sister and to do all of 375 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: the talking. She had to do all of this fast 376 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:03,639 Speaker 1: talking to say, oh my gosh, I have this sick brother. 377 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 1: Please let me get him onto this train quick. And 378 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 1: can you please give us a sleeper car that is 379 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: very far away from all the other people, because look 380 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:12,640 Speaker 1: at him, he is so frail and sick and probably contagious. 381 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: A cough car. And then she and then she ushers 382 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,200 Speaker 1: Lincoln onto the train. She's got this pistol. She's hoping 383 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 1: she doesn't have to use it. She's ready to use 384 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: it if she has to. So in this way, Kate 385 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:28,120 Speaker 1: Warren was actually the first secret Service agent in this country. 386 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: That's absolutely right spot on. She does uh. This is 387 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: this is our dramatic moment, right the calm before the 388 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: storm in in this episode of Kate. This is the 389 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: moment where picture Kate Warren with her pseudo frail, pseudo 390 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: brother uh in a sleeper car and she's just like 391 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: sitting there, I don't know, probably drinking coffee or something, 392 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 1: staring at her pistol. She does not sleep at all 393 00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: that night, not one wink. Uh. And they get to 394 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: Baltimore safely, Warren no longer has to pose as uh, 395 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 1: Lincoln's protective sibling. But there's an interesting thing that happens. 396 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,800 Speaker 1: They unhitch the sleeper car from the train, so they 397 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:17,920 Speaker 1: don't make this you know, frail non haberdash Lincoln walk 398 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: the streets. They it's weird. It's like take the mountain 399 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 1: to the person kind of thing. They just moved the 400 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: train car, which is crazy. I didn't know you could 401 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 1: do that. They moved the train car by horse through 402 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,199 Speaker 1: the streets of Baltimore in order to hitch it to 403 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 1: another train that will then get them to Washington. It 404 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 1: would have been a pretty bumpy rye and they weren't 405 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 1: the streets all like cobblestone in those days. Yeah, I 406 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: would have been rough. And so this is another tense 407 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: moment because they had to wait in this car and 408 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,360 Speaker 1: they have to say, well, you know, we hope that 409 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: this horse pulled train car isn't too a nomalous it 410 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:59,919 Speaker 1: doesn't arouse too much suspicion, right exactly, But it works. 411 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: They connect this car to that train a mile away. 412 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: Lincoln somehow stays unnoticed and you, you guys know, the 413 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: whole time he's in the sleeping car. He's probably saying 414 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 1: to his aids like, well, I just don't understand why 415 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: you guys turned so anti stovepipe hat. Everybody loved it, 416 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: and I feel like you guys are I don't know 417 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: if your teammate anymore. I just I wish you would 418 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 1: tell me where you put the hat. I'm not freaking out, 419 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,400 Speaker 1: you're freaking out. And anyway, they get to that next 420 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: train station, they continue on and eventually arrive in Washington 421 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: and the next day after this incredibly tense moment, Lincoln 422 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: asked Pinkerton the agents who were involved to give him 423 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 1: a visit. He wants to thank them in person. And 424 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 1: I love this because he thinks all of the agents, 425 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: but he really gives Kate a special thank you because 426 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: she was the one. She was his body person. She 427 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: was the person that was, you know, hustling him around 428 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: and was by his side and was ready with her 429 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: gun to shoot someone if if one of the secessionists 430 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: that drew the right car hard actually found them. And 431 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,679 Speaker 1: so what he said was quote and I'm not going 432 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: to do it. I'm not I'm no Daniel bay Lewis, guys. 433 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: So I'm just just pretend just pick put a stovetop 434 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: hat on me and picture me as Daniel Day. But 435 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 1: he says, I am sensible, ma'am, of having put you 436 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: in some inconvenience. That's putting it lightly a by the way, 437 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: not to not to speak of placing you in danger. 438 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,840 Speaker 1: So he did acknowledge that he differentiated the inconvenience from 439 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: the danger. I appreciate it was she was inconvenienced and 440 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: she was in danger. And in my head in that 441 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: scene where she's staying up all night and she's like, 442 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: are they coming? Are they coming? I don't think she's 443 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 1: drinking coffee. I think she's drinking whiskey. Oh, I guarantee 444 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: for the look. Right, we've got to remember the aesthetic. Yeah, 445 00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: here's the thing. This is um probably like the headline 446 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: that pops up for Kate Warre if you if you 447 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 1: hear about her in history books. But as we established 448 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 1: in part one of this series, she did much more 449 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: than that. And now we have to look at the 450 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:03,360 Speaker 1: post Lincoln operations or post Lincoln career, which is sad 451 00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: because we'll never know how much more she could have 452 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,520 Speaker 1: done had her life not been cut short. I do 453 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,520 Speaker 1: want to point out. We are recording this episode on 454 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:18,199 Speaker 1: June tenth, which is the day um of celebration for 455 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,719 Speaker 1: the abolition of slavery. And if Lincoln had been killed, 456 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: the Emancipation Proclamation may not have come to pass, certainly 457 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: not as quickly as it as it did. It was 458 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:30,119 Speaker 1: only a couple of years later that that he he 459 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: made that historical m announcement. And you know, we think 460 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,919 Speaker 1: of the assassination attempts on Lincoln in terms of the 461 00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,120 Speaker 1: one that succeeded more often than not, but it's really 462 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: the one that didn't succeed that gave us the brunt 463 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: of what made Lincoln such an important president. I think 464 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: that's a really good point. And to be just a 465 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: little bit cheasy here, Uh, it reminds me of, you know, 466 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,719 Speaker 1: the fact that history is a palam test. You know, 467 00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 1: everything is written atop something else. And I I think 468 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: of the Faulkner quote himself a problematic author, when he 469 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:08,320 Speaker 1: said the past is never over. It's not even past 470 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:12,120 Speaker 1: history hinges on such on such small things. I think 471 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 1: that's a brilliant point. Noel, thank you for making it. Yeah, 472 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 1: no worries, and uh, thank you guys for joining in 473 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: the conversation. We have one final kind of sad, little 474 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: little chapter in in Kate's life, which is the untimely 475 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: end of the life of of such a brilliant and 476 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 1: creative I say creative because she was very resourceful, and 477 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: then all these tales we hear about her and the 478 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,919 Speaker 1: reason that she's going to be a perfect heroine for 479 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 1: a television series. She knew she was like a female 480 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: James Bond. I mean, she knew how to get things done. 481 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 1: She knew how to get what she wanted with the 482 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 1: resources that she had at a disposal. And I think 483 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: that is the quintessential feature of like a great brilliant detective. Oh, 484 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 1: she's definitely a female James Bonding. That's that's that's how 485 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 1: going to write her. Umm, I am curious. We don't 486 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,919 Speaker 1: have a ton of information about the next part of 487 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: her life, but there had to be other interesting cases, 488 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,919 Speaker 1: which is why there it just feels like there's so 489 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 1: many holes in her story, because what we do know 490 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: is that she continued working for Pinkerton through the Civil War, 491 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: and there had to be some fascinating things that came 492 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: up during the Civil War, Right, what does creep me 493 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 1: out a little bit? Is that sometimes and this I 494 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: think this partly shows Pinkerton's great respect for her, but 495 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 1: also shows Pinkerton how how pretty Pinkerton thought she was, 496 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: because she would sometimes but they would pose as a couple, right, 497 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: they would, they would they would do work where they 498 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: were posing as a couple in order to infiltrate a case. 499 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,120 Speaker 1: And they did that a lot, particularly in in southern society, 500 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: and to gain crucial military intelligence. And you know, to 501 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 1: that end, it seems like Pinkerton and his work with 502 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,240 Speaker 1: Kate we're probably quite crucial to a lot of the 503 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: war efforts. So I think that part of her life. 504 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 1: It's sad to me that that that has been forgotten. Agreed, 505 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,479 Speaker 1: you know, their tales untold, right, and and this is 506 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: you know, this is one of the one of the 507 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: balancing acts about about history. And I I think, if 508 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: we're being completely honest, a large part of why there's 509 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: so much missing information here, I would I think you 510 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: could say, well, maybe a lot of these operations were 511 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: on the hush and they had to be secret, but 512 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: I think it would be naive to not acknowledge that 513 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: a huge part of why we don't know more about 514 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: her adventures is because history was not giving women their due, 515 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: bringing it back to Fearce. So we do know one 516 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: thing about what ultimately happened to Kate Warren. As we established, 517 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: we don't know her exact date of birth, not even 518 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: the year, but we do know when she passed away. 519 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 1: That was on January eighteen sixty eight. She was either 520 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: thirty five or thirty eight. But again, not the kind 521 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: of person you would want to press that question on. UM. 522 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: She did not. Uh, it's it's not a violent cause 523 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: of death. It was pneumonia, I believe, and before that 524 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: happened the last years of her life. UM. Again showing 525 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: Pinkerton's great abiding respect for her uh, he made her 526 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: the um superintendent of the agency's Bureau for Women. Because 527 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: not only was she herself such an important figure in 528 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: the detective agency, she led to Pinkerton realizing the the 529 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 1: effectiveness of of female agents, and he hired many more 530 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 1: and she would train them. UM. So she was able 531 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: to kind of pass on that legacy to many of 532 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: the other female Pinkerton detectives. That is a mouthful. UM. 533 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: We do know, unfortunately, that after Pinkerton himself passed away, UM, 534 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 1: his children kind of dismantled the agency. Um and really, 535 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: like again, like we talked about a little bit at 536 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: the top of the show, moved it much more towards 537 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: the kind of strike breaking, you know, bully squad that 538 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 1: we kind of think about them as today. But you know, 539 00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,600 Speaker 1: let's highlight this period of relative progressiveness within this agency 540 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 1: and give Pinkerton the original his props um for seeing, 541 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: you know, the promise of of of women in detective work. 542 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,800 Speaker 1: And obviously it wouldn't be It would be decades before 543 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: women were allowed to be police officers. So this was 544 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: pretty forward thinking. Well yeah, and you know, by decades, 545 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 1: it would be more than a hundred years before women 546 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,000 Speaker 1: were allowed to be police officers in our country. And 547 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,479 Speaker 1: it's also worth noting that Pinkerton was named as the 548 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: head of the Union Intelligence Service, which did eventually become 549 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 1: the Secret Service, So it is not a stretch at 550 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: all to say that Kate Orn really was that first 551 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: Secret Service agent. And this is this is fascinating because 552 00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: we do and with questions and we do have a mystery. 553 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,680 Speaker 1: I mean, the relatively uh scant details we know are 554 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:04,160 Speaker 1: pretty astonishing, Like you said, Joe, first female Secret Service agent, 555 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: first female detective in the US, at least oddly enough, 556 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:17,240 Speaker 1: the Pinkerton Detective Agency. The the collections that you can read, Uh, 557 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: they don't have a ton of references to war not 558 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: nearly as many as you would think, especially considering that 559 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,600 Speaker 1: her boss and everybody else seemed so captivated, whether on 560 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:35,160 Speaker 1: on multiple levels. Uh. There is one pamphlet that describes 561 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: Kate Warren, but it's it's a pamphlet that was published 562 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: entirely to repudiate the claims of a another detective force, 563 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 1: right and also ran detective Force who said, you know 564 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:50,640 Speaker 1: that whole Lincoln thing. And I was like, maybe a 565 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: little Pinkerton, but it was mainly us, like it was 566 00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: it was the John A. Kennedy Detective Force, and so Pinkerton, 567 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: you know, in in the way we would say today 568 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: Pinkerton clapped back and they said, no, we saved the 569 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: day and we did it, uh with it was several agents, 570 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: including Kate Ward And I like to imagine a little 571 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: mic drop where they're like, maybe you've heard of her 572 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: m And one thing you might not know, Um, I 573 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: didn't know until very recently is the slogan for the 574 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 1: Pinkerton Agency. Uh. And this remains of this day, the 575 00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 1: Pinkerton's are still around. Um again, after some of those 576 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,600 Speaker 1: nasty strike breaking periods in their career, there was actually 577 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,959 Speaker 1: something called the Pinkerton Act that forbade them from like 578 00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: holding certain positions and you want, associated with the Pinkerton 579 00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: Detective Agency. So they really were like you know, officially 580 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,120 Speaker 1: persona non grad after that kind of rough patch, but 581 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: they are around to this day. It became kind of 582 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: a private security agents, you almost like Blackwater, not not 583 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: quite as uh quite as divisive, but definitely in the 584 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: same vein where you think you could hire them out 585 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 1: to you know, protect a famous person or something like that. 586 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 1: But to this day, their slow and we never sleep 587 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: remains on their site. And the idea of a private 588 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: eye um embodied with kind of an unblinking eye. That's 589 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: in their logo still to this day. Uh. There's a 590 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: lot of speculation that that traces back to that night 591 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: where um Kate watched over Lincoln potentially while sipping some 592 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: whiskey uh grip and a pistol um and and not 593 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 1: closing her eyes. Yeah. And one last thing I just 594 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:28,960 Speaker 1: want to note that I think is so important and 595 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: we shouldn't class over is that she then trained other women. 596 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,880 Speaker 1: One of the things that we do in Fierce is 597 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,880 Speaker 1: we talk about a historical woman that history has forgotten, 598 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: and then the next part of the episode we talk 599 00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:43,840 Speaker 1: about a modern woman who is standing on that historical 600 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: woman's shoulders. And like we mentioned earlier, history doesn't happen 601 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: in a vacuum. Everyone needs a hand up, and everyone 602 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: is standing on someone else's legacy. And Kate Warren made 603 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: sure to pass her legacy onto generations of women who 604 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't have to fight as hard to get to do 605 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:02,879 Speaker 1: what she did. But she opened those doors for them. 606 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,760 Speaker 1: She started putting tiny little cracks in the glass ceiling 607 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,399 Speaker 1: such that then a hundred years later, yeah, we did 608 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: have women patrolling the streets in Philadelphia and all of 609 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 1: our country. And now we have women leading leading police departments, 610 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 1: for better or worse, and we'll see what happens to 611 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: all of them. And I think that is the perfect 612 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: note for us to end on today. This has been 613 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,600 Speaker 1: a wild ride. Hopefully this has been one that is 614 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: inspiring to our listeners out there, especially especially you younger 615 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians who are contemplating your next life steps. Whether 616 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: you want to be Awarewolf fast or not, or whether 617 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,000 Speaker 1: you want to be a p I, whether you want 618 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,839 Speaker 1: to change the world you can't, you can, you can 619 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: do so. Um, I have to say, Joe, Noel Casey, 620 00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 1: I'm pretty much sold on the TV. It's gonna be 621 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,319 Speaker 1: so good, guys, I can't wait. I think everybody should 622 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 1: be by now, because again, like it's perfect because of 623 00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 1: the mystery. It allows you to take some creative license. 624 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 1: It can be a combination of historical fact, a little 625 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: bit of embellishment, maybe a little over the top Tarantino nous, 626 00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,320 Speaker 1: which she really gets to like blow some bad guys away. 627 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: That's just me, that's just my two cents. This is 628 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: your thing, Joe, but I for one can't wait to 629 00:36:21,719 --> 00:36:23,879 Speaker 1: see it. Um, and I for one want to thank 630 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 1: you for coming on this show and being part of 631 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,080 Speaker 1: this awesome too. Parter. I think we all learned a lot. 632 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: I for one, learned the word cockade. I had to 633 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,959 Speaker 1: say it again, thank you for having me. I also 634 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: learned cockade and this was a bus I mean, it 635 00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: gave me. There's there's not a lot of times that 636 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,319 Speaker 1: I get to express my love for the Pinkerton album, 637 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: and this was one of them. So this it just 638 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: feels really special to me. We contained multitudes Joe, So, Joe, 639 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,879 Speaker 1: thank you so much again for I greatly appreciate your 640 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 1: time and for going on this journey with us. For 641 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:01,680 Speaker 1: everyone who has through some woeful oversight not yet listen 642 00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: to Fierce, where can they find it? Where can they 643 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: learn more about you? And where can they learn more 644 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,319 Speaker 1: about your work? Oh? So yes, the Fierce Podcast. We 645 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,359 Speaker 1: now have eight episodes out in the world, and like 646 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,040 Speaker 1: I said before, each of them feels like a mini documentary. 647 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,200 Speaker 1: You will walk away feeling like you know so much 648 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: about these historical women that you may some of them 649 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: you may have heard of more than others. But I 650 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,160 Speaker 1: mean each of each of them just just deserves chapters 651 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 1: and chapters and history books of course, which they did 652 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: not get. Um. You can find Fierce on the I 653 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:34,520 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to 654 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: your podcasts. You can follow me on Instagram at Joe 655 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:42,439 Speaker 1: Piazza Author, or my website www dot Joe Piazza dot com. Well. 656 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: First off, huge thanks once again to Joe Piazza for 657 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 1: joining us today. Big massive thanks to super producer Casey 658 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,400 Speaker 1: Pegram Alex Williams. Who composed our theme, Christopher has Ciota's 659 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: here with us in spirit. Huge, huge thanks to Hate Warren. 660 00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: Uh you know, I'm just going to reiterate what I 661 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: think already said. No, big thanks to case E Pegram 662 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: for if we're nailing the sound cue Ciprianto Ferandini. Oh 663 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: you got it. I can't believe you got that one too. Okay, no, no, no, 664 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: it's it's a complex relationship. But thank you as well, 665 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,959 Speaker 1: of course, to Gabe Lizier. Thank you to Eve's Jeff Coach. 666 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: Check out our peer podcast Eaves does this day in History. Uh, 667 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: it's it's quite good and it's uh, it's something that 668 00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: we recommend listening to after you have listened to Fierce 669 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,640 Speaker 1: also right to us and let us know, um, let 670 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:38,400 Speaker 1: us know what other what other stories you've heard about 671 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 1: that you think your fellow ridiculous historians should learn about? 672 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: You can find us. We're just like we're all over 673 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 1: the internet. We're basically on everything except um uh live 674 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 1: journal and Pinterest. We're gonna get to Pinterest one day. 675 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, man, people even use Pinterest anymore? Is it? 676 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 1: Is it? I don't know. I just I still understand 677 00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 1: what it's for I only just now figured out Snapchat, 678 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: and then Instagram started doing stories and that's like Snapchat. 679 00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: So why do people use Snapchat now? I think I 680 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 1: know why. Is it's porn, isn't it. That's exactly what 681 00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 1: it is. And with that, I bid you all a 682 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:15,919 Speaker 1: fair farewell. Oh man, I just shouted out the youth 683 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:25,480 Speaker 1: of America. We'll see you next time, Youth of America. 684 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,640 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I 685 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to 686 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:32,560 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.