WEBVTT - Republicans, be careful what you wish for

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Off the Cup.

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<v Speaker 2>Later in the show, I'll talk to my friend Van

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<v Speaker 2>Jones about some big questions. What's next for the Democrats,

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<v Speaker 2>what's next for the Republicans, what's next for our country.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a really good conversation. I think you'll really like it.

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<v Speaker 1>But first, let's talk about what happened this week. Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a doozy of an election in Texas. I

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<v Speaker 2>covered it Tuesday night. The MAGA candidates won and it

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't close, both in the Senate race and and the

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<v Speaker 2>race for ag the I'm gonna call them Maggie the

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<v Speaker 2>Maggie the Maggie ist candidates beat the less Maggie candidates.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, are we surprised by that in Texas? I'm not.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, for all of the Dems dreams of turning

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<v Speaker 2>Texas blue somewhere, it's still a very red state, Okay.

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<v Speaker 2>And I've been talking to Republicans in Texas for the

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<v Speaker 2>past few months to try to get a sense of

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<v Speaker 2>where voters were both between you know, the two right

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<v Speaker 2>candidates in the Senate, but also you know where they

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<v Speaker 2>are with regard to a Democrat winning Texas Senate, which

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<v Speaker 2>would be the first statewide win for a Democrat since

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<v Speaker 2>I think nineteen ninety three or four, which is just crazy,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's still a very it's a very red state,

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<v Speaker 2>and Trump is still king there.

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<v Speaker 1>There's just no question about it.

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<v Speaker 2>So bye bye John Cornyn Ken Paxton is now the

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<v Speaker 2>face of MAGA, of the Mega movement, because in MAGA,

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<v Speaker 2>you can only move in the direction of more Maga. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>It's like cow bell, we need more cow Bell. They

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<v Speaker 2>always need more Maga. And just when you think someone

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<v Speaker 2>can't get Maggie enough, they they want more Maga. They

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<v Speaker 2>want it magiar. And I've used this analogy for years

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<v Speaker 2>when describing Trump's Republican Party. It's like those cans of

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<v Speaker 2>orange juice we grew up with.

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<v Speaker 1>Did you have.

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<v Speaker 2>These cans of orange juice concentrate in your freezer and

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<v Speaker 2>you're meant to add water to them so that they

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<v Speaker 2>expand and dilute, and so you're not drinking just straight syrupy,

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<v Speaker 2>mouthpuckering orange juice concentrate, but delicious, balanced orange juice. Trump's

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<v Speaker 2>Republican Party is that can of orange juice, and they

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<v Speaker 2>are adding less and less water to it.

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<v Speaker 1>And that project is actually made to.

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<v Speaker 2>Make it pure concentrated Trump. That's what they want out

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<v Speaker 2>of the Republican Party. They just want it more and

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<v Speaker 2>more concentrated. So back in Trump's first term that that

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<v Speaker 2>project really started. The Jeff Flakes, the Charlie Dents of

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<v Speaker 2>the party, moderate Republicans who were appalled by what Trump

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<v Speaker 2>was doing for this reason or that and said so, well,

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<v Speaker 2>they were pushed out. Then came the Kinzingers and the Chenese,

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<v Speaker 2>anyone who wasn't sufficiently Maggie, who wouldn't go to like

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<v Speaker 2>cartoonish lengths to defend Trump and everything he did, and said.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, they were shown the door.

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<v Speaker 2>And when I tell you how remarkable that is a

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<v Speaker 2>political party actively pushing members out, actively shrinking the tent purity,

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<v Speaker 2>testing its own members not on like conservative policy, but

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<v Speaker 2>on their loyalty.

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<v Speaker 1>To one guy.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just not a thing that's like happened in modern

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<v Speaker 2>American politics, because.

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<v Speaker 1>No one would advise.

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<v Speaker 2>The leader of a political party to shrink the ten

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<v Speaker 2>or kick members in good standing out, or remake the

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<v Speaker 2>party so that it's completely condensed and small and concentrate

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<v Speaker 2>it like politics is a game of addition, not subtraction, right,

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<v Speaker 2>and Trumps only one every time He's won because he

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<v Speaker 2>was actually able to get more voters into the fold

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<v Speaker 2>that Republicans had not gotten before. But inside the MAGA base,

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<v Speaker 2>it was kicking people out, which is just it's just crazy.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll never get over that decision. But that's what they

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<v Speaker 2>did and they're still doing it. So. Ken Paxton, who's

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<v Speaker 2>a truly, truly loathsome figure who was indicted on multiple

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<v Speaker 2>corruption charges, has faced legal battles for nearly a decade.

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<v Speaker 1>Was impeached by his own party.

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<v Speaker 2>The Republican controlled Texas House of Representatives voted one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>and twenty one to twenty three to impeach him on

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<v Speaker 2>charges of bribery, dereliction of duty, an abuse of public trust,

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<v Speaker 2>who was embroiled in a nasty divorce, who's had multiple

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<v Speaker 2>mistresses allegedly. Well, he got Trump's endorsement in the nomination

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<v Speaker 2>for Senate over John Cornyn, a four term incumbent who

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<v Speaker 2>was very popular and liked in Texas. He voted with

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<v Speaker 2>Trump one hundred percent of the time. There was absolutely

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<v Speaker 2>no good reason to contest that seat.

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<v Speaker 1>It was safe.

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<v Speaker 2>It was going to go to corn In. It was

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<v Speaker 2>going to be a Republican seat. After November twenty twenty six.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, I think if.

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<v Speaker 2>Ken Paxton had decided not to primary Cornyn, I'm positive

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<v Speaker 2>that James tell Rico, the Democratic nominee, wouldn't have even

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<v Speaker 2>bothered to run. Okay, but he did. He saw an

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<v Speaker 2>opening and he thought, but could I be so lucky?

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<v Speaker 2>Could the Republicans give me such a gift in Ken Paxton?

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<v Speaker 1>There's no way.

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<v Speaker 2>Surely, surely they wouldn't be dumb enough to nominate a

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<v Speaker 2>guy like Ken Paxton when there's a guy like John

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<v Speaker 2>Cornyn right there. Surely someone smart is running the Republican

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<v Speaker 2>Party in Texas.

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<v Speaker 1>And will not allow will not allow this to happen.

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<v Speaker 1>But he's wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>Republicans did nominate Ken Paxton. That's after Donald Trump endorsed

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<v Speaker 2>him about a week before the election. And that's all

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<v Speaker 2>it took. Trump gave, gave the word, and Paxton walked

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<v Speaker 2>away the winner. So mag is celebrating this. They're out

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<v Speaker 2>there pointing to Trump's lock on the party. His grip

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<v Speaker 2>on the party is influence his ability to make kings

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<v Speaker 2>out of out of Ken's. But to the Republican Party,

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<v Speaker 2>I say, be careful what you wish for. This could

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<v Speaker 2>end up being one of the biggest blown opportunities, biggest

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<v Speaker 2>self owns, worst political collapses in recent memory, worse.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't even think of something.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, this could be the big enchilada of self owns.

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<v Speaker 1>How do we get there?

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<v Speaker 2>Let's start by imagining you're John Cornyan, because he's going

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<v Speaker 2>to be a problem for Trump too. You're a popular incumbent.

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<v Speaker 2>You've never lost an election in twenty three years. Over

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<v Speaker 2>those years, you've enjoyed as much as a seventy percent

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<v Speaker 2>approval rating among Republicans in Texas, your base. You're primaried

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<v Speaker 2>by the states sitting scandal ridden Attorney General Ken Paxton.

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<v Speaker 2>You managed to best him in the primary in March.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, John Cornyn beat Ken Paxton in March. But

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<v Speaker 2>neither candidate had a fifty percent threshold. So it goes

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<v Speaker 2>to a runoff, and you're John Cornyn. And despite voting

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<v Speaker 2>with Donald Trump one hundred percent of the time, one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred percent, and despite the urging of your Senate Republican

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<v Speaker 2>colleagues two picked on Cornan, Trump endorses the other guy,

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<v Speaker 2>the scandal ridden guy, and at the last minute, and

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<v Speaker 2>then he wins in all blowout, effectively retiring you.

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<v Speaker 1>Com November. What do you John Cornyn do now.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you're still in office until November, and that's the

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<v Speaker 2>first problem for Donald Trump. Cornyn is joining some other

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<v Speaker 2>recent casualties of Trump's ire Tom Massey, Senator from Kentucky,

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<v Speaker 2>who is beat by Ed Golrain in his primary, Senator

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<v Speaker 2>Bill Cassidy, who lost his primary in Louise, Sienna.

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<v Speaker 1>They could all be a.

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<v Speaker 2>Thorn in Trump's side for the rest of their term.

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<v Speaker 2>And they're not alone. Ran Paul's in there, Tom Tillis

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<v Speaker 2>is in there. These are beleaguered Republicans on the outs

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<v Speaker 2>with Trump, but they're around.

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<v Speaker 1>Until at least November.

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<v Speaker 2>They could keep Trump from passing legislation, getting war and

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<v Speaker 2>ballroom funding, confirming judges and cabinet appointments. I mean, they

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<v Speaker 2>could be a problem for Trump, and there is more

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<v Speaker 2>of them than Republicans can afford to.

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<v Speaker 1>Lose on a vote. Yeah. That's fun to think about,

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<v Speaker 1>isn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm really hoping that Cornyn and Cassidy and Massy

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<v Speaker 2>until us like band together and decide to just be

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<v Speaker 2>a huge pain in the ass for Trump when his

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<v Speaker 2>pet projects come up in the Senate. They have enoughing

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<v Speaker 2>to lose don't be emasculated. Cucks still trying to get

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<v Speaker 2>in his good favor. He doesn't care about you, that's obvious,

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<v Speaker 2>So be assholes. I hope they turn out to be

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<v Speaker 2>assholes these last months in office because their service and

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<v Speaker 2>their loyalty were not rewarded. They owe Trump nothing.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. The other thing.

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<v Speaker 2>That Trump's done to the party, which could end up

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<v Speaker 2>being a huge self own, is forced the GOP to

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<v Speaker 2>spend millions more than it wanted to, like millions, because

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<v Speaker 2>Trump's primary against Massey cost extra money. They'll have to

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<v Speaker 2>spend millions to defend the indefensible Ken Paxton in Texas

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<v Speaker 2>against attacks from James tall Rico and the left. They'll

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<v Speaker 2>have to spend millions to do that when they didn't

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<v Speaker 2>have to because John Cornin.

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<v Speaker 1>Was right there.

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<v Speaker 2>He had a safe seat in a safe district in

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<v Speaker 2>a safe state. Carl Rove was on Fox and he

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<v Speaker 2>pointed out today also that Paxton is also just like

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<v Speaker 2>a terrible fundraiser. He said, he's going to suck money

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<v Speaker 2>from other crucial races around the country. Yeah, who wants

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<v Speaker 2>to give money to Ken Paxton? Gross? He also pointed

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<v Speaker 2>out that Paxton ran behind the rest of the statewide

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<v Speaker 2>Republican ticket. In his last two campaigns. He trailed all

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<v Speaker 2>seven statewide GOP candidates in twenty eighteen by an average

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<v Speaker 2>of about one hundred and seventy seven thousand votes, and

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<v Speaker 2>all six in twenty twenty two by an average of

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<v Speaker 2>one hundred and fifty four thousand votes. And that was

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<v Speaker 2>all before most of the scandals surrounding Ken Paxton became

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<v Speaker 2>public and before the Republican run Texas House impeached him

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty three.

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<v Speaker 1>He was never a good candidate and.

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<v Speaker 2>Things are only going to get worse because I just

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<v Speaker 2>want to point out this is some excellent tea if

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<v Speaker 2>you want to have a good weekend. This this news

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<v Speaker 2>I'm about to tell you is gonna is gonna speak

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<v Speaker 2>it into existence. Ken Paxton's divorce hearings begin in a

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<v Speaker 2>few weeks.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that right.

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<v Speaker 2>Ken Paxton's ugly, brutal, bitter divorce, in which his wife

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<v Speaker 2>cited was on biblical grounds. Those hearings begin in a

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<v Speaker 2>few weeks. Their divorce records are unsealed. This will be

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<v Speaker 2>public all the dirty details that they're already out.

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<v Speaker 1>But we're going to get more as this divorce.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh goes to trial just a few months before the election.

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<v Speaker 1>Like, isn't that great? Isn't that like?

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<v Speaker 2>What impeccable timing to run for higher office in the

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<v Speaker 2>middle of a nasty divorce in which you are being

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<v Speaker 2>accused by your wife of serial adultery and then using

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<v Speaker 2>your political office to hide your affairs, including one of

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<v Speaker 2>which was allegedly with a staffer.

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<v Speaker 1>Impeccable timing.

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<v Speaker 2>This is a gift to us from the timing gods

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<v Speaker 2>that Ken Paxton, again, a loathsome human being, will have

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<v Speaker 2>to go through his divorce proceedings publicly while he's running

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<v Speaker 2>for office in a seat Republicans didn't.

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<v Speaker 1>Have to contest. Yeah. Tell Rico meanwhile is sitting pretty.

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<v Speaker 2>Democrats have been trying, as I said, to turn the

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<v Speaker 2>seat blue for years, and with Paxton rather than Cornyn,

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<v Speaker 2>they have their best shot in a long time. Telrico's

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<v Speaker 2>incredibly popular and he's raised a ton of money since

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<v Speaker 2>Trump turned really him and Stephen Colbert into like resistance

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<v Speaker 2>heroes over It was that it was Colbert's interview with

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<v Speaker 2>tall Rico that got Trump's sites set on Colbert and

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<v Speaker 2>getting Colbert out of there, and in the process it

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<v Speaker 2>made James Tall Rico, a household name James tell Rico,

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<v Speaker 2>was pulling well behind Jasmine Crockett in Texas in the

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<v Speaker 2>Democratic Party before Trump decided to make him a darling. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>he has that, he has that effect. Telrico and Democrats

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<v Speaker 2>are thrilled that Paxton got the nomination. They will spend

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<v Speaker 2>their considerable capital painting Paxton as a corrupt and ethically

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<v Speaker 2>challenged deadbeat who could be indicted in the future and exploiting.

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<v Speaker 1>The rift.

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<v Speaker 2>In the Republican Party that this this primary created. Texas

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<v Speaker 2>Republicans are divided a lot of corn and loyalists who

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<v Speaker 2>thought this is stupid, he is great, leave him alone.

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<v Speaker 2>And then others, you know who went with Trump and

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<v Speaker 2>went with Paxton and decided again to pour a little,

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<v Speaker 2>a little water out of the Orange concentrate. How Maggie,

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<v Speaker 2>can we get So it's a party divided in Texas.

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<v Speaker 2>Polls and prediction markets after Tuesday's Paxton nomination, Uh well,

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<v Speaker 2>they got a lot better for Democrats once once he

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<v Speaker 2>got once.

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<v Speaker 1>He got the win.

0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:37.480
<v Speaker 2>Poly market gave Tallarico a forty seven percent chance of

0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:44.280
<v Speaker 2>beating Paxton after Paxton's Tuesday win, within within striking distance.

0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.640
<v Speaker 2>They gave Paxton a fifty four percent chance of winning.

0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:51.880
<v Speaker 2>Cook Political Report moved this race from likely Republican to

0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:58.000
<v Speaker 2>lean Republican, that's downgrading Paxton's chances, and an April poll

0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:02.280
<v Speaker 2>from the Texas Politics Project at UT gave Tallerco an

0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:05.360
<v Speaker 2>eight point edge over Paxton in a general election matchup.

0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:07.880
<v Speaker 1>We haven't even let me. Let me put it this way.

0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:10.360
<v Speaker 2>I know a lot about Kim Paxton because it's my

0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:12.320
<v Speaker 2>job to write cover these primaries.

0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:14.440
<v Speaker 1>I have to cover all the people I know. Most

0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:18.200
<v Speaker 1>people do not know what I know about Ken Paxton.

0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:21.680
<v Speaker 2>They're about to because you just got catapulted to, you know,

0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:29.320
<v Speaker 2>the national spotlight. We don't even know everything there is

0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.040
<v Speaker 2>to know about Ki Paxton. We're going to find out

0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:33.280
<v Speaker 2>a lot more during this divorce. Everyone's going to learn

0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:37.880
<v Speaker 2>a lot more about Ken Paxton. And I just can't

0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:43.240
<v Speaker 2>It's like, this is going to be something to watch.

0:16:44.160 --> 0:16:49.680
<v Speaker 2>This terrible person, terrible candidate could give Democrats their first

0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:55.600
<v Speaker 2>shot at winning a statewide seat in Texas in decades.

0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.040
<v Speaker 2>And if tall Rico manages to pull off this like

0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:02.600
<v Speaker 2>unimaginable thing, it's going to be because of Trump and

0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:07.240
<v Speaker 2>his short sighted meddling into what could have been a

0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.520
<v Speaker 2>safe seat had Cornyn been the nominee.

0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.640
<v Speaker 1>Paxton is a very risky bet in.

0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:20.520
<v Speaker 2>The general election, and Trump hasn't always delivered on his endorsements.

0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.640
<v Speaker 2>Remember Roy Moore in Alabama. Remember herschel Walker in Georgia.

0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.600
<v Speaker 2>Those guys were absolute freak shows, and Trump backed them

0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:34.560
<v Speaker 2>to the bitter end and Democrats won. Democrats won in

0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:39.640
<v Speaker 2>Alabama and Georgia. Okay, they can win in Texas, which

0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:41.840
<v Speaker 2>is a crazy thing to say. It's a crazy thing

0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:45.840
<v Speaker 2>to say, but they can thanks to Donald Trump and

0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:46.560
<v Speaker 2>Ken Paxton.

0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:51.440
<v Speaker 1>Here's another good point Carl Rove made on this. He said, the.

0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:55.240
<v Speaker 2>President's endorsement still settles primaries, but his record in general

0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:59.000
<v Speaker 2>elections isn't so good. In the twenty twenty one runoffs

0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:02.560
<v Speaker 2>for Georgia's Senate seats, he discouraged supporters.

0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:02.760
<v Speaker 1>From turning out.

0:18:03.800 --> 0:18:06.719
<v Speaker 2>Then in twenty twenty two, he endorsed subpar Senate candidates

0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:08.360
<v Speaker 2>in Arizona, Georgia, and Pennsylvania.

0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.240
<v Speaker 1>Democrats won all five of those contests.

0:18:11.840 --> 0:18:15.000
<v Speaker 2>If Republicans had won those, they might have a fifty

0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:19.119
<v Speaker 2>seven to forty three majority today. But they don't because,

0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:23.400
<v Speaker 2>like Rove said, Trump might be king in the primaries,

0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.879
<v Speaker 2>but in the general it's a different story, because, of

0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:32.240
<v Speaker 2>course it is when our primaries are increasingly giving us

0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:36.240
<v Speaker 2>the most extreme candidates, and then they have to pivot

0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:38.560
<v Speaker 2>to a general election to win all voters.

0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:41.680
<v Speaker 1>Of course, that candidate.

0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.320
<v Speaker 2>Isn't going to translate very well in a general election.

0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.879
<v Speaker 2>Ken Paxton is not going to translate well in a

0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:53.920
<v Speaker 2>general election. Let me tell you that. So look, Paxton's

0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:56.480
<v Speaker 2>win this week. Win, I'm putting it in quotes. Win

0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:02.200
<v Speaker 2>could end up being like a peer victory at best.

0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:07.639
<v Speaker 1>At worst, could be a disaster for the party.

0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:12.800
<v Speaker 2>Imagine if the Dems take the Senate in November by

0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:20.360
<v Speaker 2>one boy, will Trump's endorsement of Ken Paxton reek, then

0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.719
<v Speaker 2>you won't be able to wash the stink off of

0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:28.000
<v Speaker 2>that endorsement. Now, he obviously doesn't care about this because

0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.720
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't care about the midterms. I've been saying that

0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:34.240
<v Speaker 2>for months because it's so obvious he doesn't care about

0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.239
<v Speaker 2>the midterms. Well, he actually came out and said it

0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:40.159
<v Speaker 2>this week. He was being asked about Iran, whether the

0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.800
<v Speaker 2>unpopularity of that war could impact midterms. He said, I

0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:47.000
<v Speaker 2>don't care about the midterms. He doesn't if he did,

0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:50.840
<v Speaker 2>he wouldn't be imperiling Republicans with billion dollar ballrooms and

0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:55.760
<v Speaker 2>slush funds and primary safe seats. He doesn't care. But

0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.640
<v Speaker 2>Republicans care about the mid terms. They care personally, they

0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:00.880
<v Speaker 2>want to keep their seats. They care medically, they want

0:20:00.880 --> 0:20:06.200
<v Speaker 2>to keep their majority. But look, Trump's tomfoolery and Tom

0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:11.160
<v Speaker 2>tom fuckery could absolutely kill their majority.

0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:15.560
<v Speaker 1>And I am here for it. I am so here

0:20:15.600 --> 0:20:15.879
<v Speaker 1>for it.

0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:19.240
<v Speaker 2>Okay, when we come back and interview with Van Jones,

0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:31.640
<v Speaker 2>don't go anywhere. Welcome back to Off the cop. I'm

0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:33.840
<v Speaker 2>joined now by my friend Van Jones.

0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.040
<v Speaker 1>Welcome Van, Hello buddy.

0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.600
<v Speaker 2>We see a lot of each other, but it's really

0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.160
<v Speaker 2>nice to have you here because the thing I'm thinking about,

0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:46.600
<v Speaker 2>maybe the most right now, is what comes next for

0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:50.919
<v Speaker 2>us as a country. What comes next for Democrats, what

0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:54.360
<v Speaker 2>comes next for Republicans, what comes next for voters. Over

0:20:54.440 --> 0:20:58.320
<v Speaker 2>the past ten years, we've watched Trump just dealing with

0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.439
<v Speaker 2>the right for a second, like totally dismantled the Republican Party,

0:21:01.480 --> 0:21:05.160
<v Speaker 2>the conservative movement, the ones underpinned it feels a bit irrelevant.

0:21:05.200 --> 0:21:07.639
<v Speaker 2>The thing that's holding up the modern right today is

0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:12.960
<v Speaker 2>a little nationalism and whatever Trump just said, if I'm

0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:15.600
<v Speaker 2>looking at the ingredients list, it's a little nationalism and

0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:17.000
<v Speaker 2>whatever Trump just said.

0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:21.000
<v Speaker 1>So when he's out of office, does the right who

0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:21.879
<v Speaker 1>does the right become?

0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:25.119
<v Speaker 2>Is it the party of JD JD Vance whose I

0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:27.160
<v Speaker 2>see him sort of like as an empty vessel. He'll

0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:29.720
<v Speaker 2>be whatever Maga wants him to be in the moment.

0:21:29.760 --> 0:21:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Then there's Marco Rubio, who I think would attempt to

0:21:31.960 --> 0:21:34.760
<v Speaker 2>sort of bring the party back to some kind of

0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:39.240
<v Speaker 2>version of twenty sixteen. Marco more muscular foreign policy, maybe

0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:41.720
<v Speaker 2>more a more optimistic kind of populism.

0:21:42.000 --> 0:21:43.840
<v Speaker 1>I don't even know if that's what they want, though.

0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:46.040
<v Speaker 1>I think Tucker Carlson's going to run.

0:21:46.560 --> 0:21:49.280
<v Speaker 2>He's working on creating a Trump alternative lane that maybe

0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:53.320
<v Speaker 2>delivers on what Trump promised but didn't accomplish. Right, he'll

0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:57.840
<v Speaker 2>be the actual America first president that ends ties to Israel,

0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:00.639
<v Speaker 2>makes nice with Russia. He'll be the true upholder of

0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:04.600
<v Speaker 2>Judeo Christian values. We'll talk about the left too, but first,

0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:07.399
<v Speaker 2>you have such a good sense of where voters on

0:22:07.440 --> 0:22:11.359
<v Speaker 2>the ground are, what their anxieties are, what their hopes are,

0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:15.560
<v Speaker 2>what's building under the surface. Do you think they want

0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:18.080
<v Speaker 2>more angry populism.

0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:19.600
<v Speaker 1>Do you think they want a caretaker?

0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:22.040
<v Speaker 2>Do they want to take Trump's project to its logical

0:22:22.080 --> 0:22:26.040
<v Speaker 2>sort of nihilistic conclusion in search of more normalcy. What

0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:28.560
<v Speaker 2>do you think comes next as we're gearing up for

0:22:28.600 --> 0:22:32.520
<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty eight On the right, I.

0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:36.520
<v Speaker 3>Mean I look at the world somewhat differently in that

0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:40.080
<v Speaker 3>I just try to figure out what everyday people are feeling.

0:22:40.520 --> 0:22:48.240
<v Speaker 3>And I think people there's a lot of economic anxiety

0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:55.800
<v Speaker 3>that is getting more and more profound because people don't

0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:57.520
<v Speaker 3>see how they're going to People don't see how they're

0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:00.240
<v Speaker 3>going to work their way out of it. Yeah, where

0:23:00.240 --> 0:23:02.840
<v Speaker 3>people used to think, Okay, well I'm behind on my bills,

0:23:04.200 --> 0:23:08.320
<v Speaker 3>but I can add a job, I can cut an expense,

0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:14.960
<v Speaker 3>I can add a roommate, I can do something nothing

0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:18.200
<v Speaker 3>that is available, or I can buy some crypto, or

0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:21.480
<v Speaker 3>I can bet on polymarket, or I can do something

0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:26.320
<v Speaker 3>increasingly people they fire, or I can you know, just

0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:28.400
<v Speaker 3>max out my credit card.

0:23:28.320 --> 0:23:30.320
<v Speaker 2>Or can I just add one before you continue? Or

0:23:30.359 --> 0:23:33.119
<v Speaker 2>I can count on Trump to turn things around. I

0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:36.200
<v Speaker 2>think that was a belief in twenty twenty four.

0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:42.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think people have fired all weapons at this point. Economically,

0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:48.000
<v Speaker 3>and they and they're worse than before. You're starting to

0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:53.520
<v Speaker 3>see people when people stop paying their car Note that's

0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:55.760
<v Speaker 3>a very bad sign, because people need their cars to

0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:58.320
<v Speaker 3>go to work, to get their kids. You're starting to

0:23:58.359 --> 0:24:02.119
<v Speaker 3>see things starting when people start not paying their credit

0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:07.200
<v Speaker 3>card bills. So you're starting to see that wave starting

0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:10.959
<v Speaker 3>to build of just real economic desperation. And then you

0:24:11.000 --> 0:24:13.439
<v Speaker 3>add to that all this concern about what AI is

0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:15.480
<v Speaker 3>going to do to the people who have been pretty

0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:18.800
<v Speaker 3>secure for the past twenty thirty forty years in the

0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:24.640
<v Speaker 3>white collar sections. Then you add to that nobody's kids

0:24:24.640 --> 0:24:28.960
<v Speaker 3>getting a job. They're not getting a good job coming

0:24:29.000 --> 0:24:31.080
<v Speaker 3>out of high school, coming out of college, good kids,

0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:33.199
<v Speaker 3>hardworking kids, the kids that didn't get in trouble, who

0:24:33.200 --> 0:24:35.280
<v Speaker 3>didn't do a bunch of dumb stuff. Those are the

0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:38.199
<v Speaker 3>ones who are having a very hard time. So I

0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:41.159
<v Speaker 3>just think you're going to have people sitting on a

0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:46.520
<v Speaker 3>white hot stove, and so any form of populism will

0:24:46.560 --> 0:24:49.600
<v Speaker 3>get it if you are hearing. I think you're going

0:24:49.640 --> 0:24:54.159
<v Speaker 3>to see people focused a lot on the billionaires and

0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:57.720
<v Speaker 3>the trillionaires and the AI of it all and that

0:24:57.840 --> 0:24:59.879
<v Speaker 3>kind of thing. And I think that Trump hasn't done

0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:03.119
<v Speaker 3>awful lot of favors by just being so close and

0:25:03.200 --> 0:25:08.240
<v Speaker 3>cuddly with people that are doing super well. Other people

0:25:08.240 --> 0:25:11.800
<v Speaker 3>are not doing very well. And so, uh, you know,

0:25:11.880 --> 0:25:16.159
<v Speaker 3>I think that I think the wheel is still in

0:25:16.400 --> 0:25:20.000
<v Speaker 3>spin in terms of who is going to be able

0:25:20.040 --> 0:25:25.000
<v Speaker 3>to capture that and speak to it. But uh, you know,

0:25:25.200 --> 0:25:28.880
<v Speaker 3>all the cultural stuff, and you know all that stuff

0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:35.399
<v Speaker 3>it you know, the white nationalism, those things which you

0:25:35.440 --> 0:25:38.359
<v Speaker 3>know I worry about a great deal, all the anti

0:25:38.440 --> 0:25:41.760
<v Speaker 3>Jewish stuff, the anti Israel stuff, it's bubbling up. All

0:25:41.800 --> 0:25:44.880
<v Speaker 3>those things get you know, they have their own dynamic,

0:25:44.920 --> 0:25:47.960
<v Speaker 3>but they get way more force when people are trying

0:25:48.000 --> 0:25:49.639
<v Speaker 3>to figure out why why don't I have? What I

0:25:49.680 --> 0:25:54.680
<v Speaker 3>need is who who cannot blame and a so you

0:25:54.760 --> 0:26:00.639
<v Speaker 3>gotta have a blame in shame constituency out there, both sides.

0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:05.680
<v Speaker 3>And so it takes real leadership in situations like this.

0:26:06.760 --> 0:26:09.280
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's rare and frankly, in the last century

0:26:09.280 --> 0:26:13.040
<v Speaker 3>we produced world class leaders, I mean on the right

0:26:13.040 --> 0:26:15.560
<v Speaker 3>and the left. I mean you had you know, FDR.

0:26:15.800 --> 0:26:18.760
<v Speaker 3>You had Nelson Mandela, you had Ronald Reagan, you had

0:26:18.800 --> 0:26:22.280
<v Speaker 3>Margaret Thatcher, you had Churchill. You had world class leaders

0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:25.280
<v Speaker 3>that you know, and and we still barely made it

0:26:25.320 --> 0:26:28.240
<v Speaker 3>out of the last century alive, right, and we still

0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:30.840
<v Speaker 3>barely And now we're a quarter the way into the

0:26:30.920 --> 0:26:33.240
<v Speaker 3>new century. And you don't see a single leader like

0:26:33.280 --> 0:26:36.119
<v Speaker 3>that on the planet. Maybe Zelenski, you know, in a

0:26:36.160 --> 0:26:39.080
<v Speaker 3>good day. I mean, you can hunt high and low,

0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:42.200
<v Speaker 3>and instead you have I think some of the worst

0:26:42.280 --> 0:26:45.240
<v Speaker 3>leaders on the world stage that we've ever seen. I

0:26:45.240 --> 0:26:48.359
<v Speaker 3>think Trump category. Know, he is definitely in that category.

0:26:48.400 --> 0:26:50.960
<v Speaker 3>Bb net and Yahoo in that category, Putin is in

0:26:51.000 --> 0:26:54.040
<v Speaker 3>that category. G and from my point of view, is

0:26:54.040 --> 0:26:56.600
<v Speaker 3>still in that category. Though you know China is doing,

0:26:57.440 --> 0:27:01.000
<v Speaker 3>you know, pretty well economically. You just have a whole

0:27:01.040 --> 0:27:05.479
<v Speaker 3>bunch of terrible leaders at maybe the worst time. And

0:27:05.560 --> 0:27:09.200
<v Speaker 3>so who's going to break you out of that? Under

0:27:09.280 --> 0:27:15.960
<v Speaker 3>the west And so far I haven't seen yet the

0:27:16.040 --> 0:27:19.159
<v Speaker 3>person who comes in just orthogonal to all this nonsense.

0:27:19.760 --> 0:27:23.399
<v Speaker 3>Here's here's a positive vision the country can work on

0:27:23.520 --> 0:27:27.359
<v Speaker 3>together and get ourselves back on the right track for

0:27:27.440 --> 0:27:29.040
<v Speaker 3>working people. I just haven't seen it yet.

0:27:29.960 --> 0:27:34.199
<v Speaker 2>Before I ask you about the left, you've talked a

0:27:34.240 --> 0:27:38.760
<v Speaker 2>lot about Trump's ability to capture attention and the attention economy,

0:27:38.920 --> 0:27:42.600
<v Speaker 2>and no one's been able to do it like him

0:27:43.119 --> 0:27:46.080
<v Speaker 2>over on the right. How do you see the right

0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:50.680
<v Speaker 2>trying to capture attention as we get up to twenty

0:27:50.720 --> 0:27:54.200
<v Speaker 2>twenty eight with Trump still in office, probably not wanting

0:27:54.520 --> 0:27:56.760
<v Speaker 2>the attention off him, even.

0:27:56.520 --> 0:27:59.760
<v Speaker 1>If his heir, a parent, whoever that is, is running.

0:28:02.160 --> 0:28:05.280
<v Speaker 3>Look, part of the thing I think is hard for

0:28:06.000 --> 0:28:12.080
<v Speaker 3>normies to track is that a lot of this is happening,

0:28:12.160 --> 0:28:14.919
<v Speaker 3>a lot of the fight for attention is happening on

0:28:15.000 --> 0:28:20.439
<v Speaker 3>a much broader information warfare landscape then we're used to.

0:28:20.920 --> 0:28:23.000
<v Speaker 3>I mean, we used to think, oh, you know ms

0:28:23.160 --> 0:28:28.080
<v Speaker 3>NBC versus CNN versus Fox, that was the arena. Yeah,

0:28:28.240 --> 0:28:32.439
<v Speaker 3>and now I mean that's a microscopic part of the

0:28:32.480 --> 0:28:36.000
<v Speaker 3>overall terrain. I mean when you have you know, someone

0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:41.320
<v Speaker 3>like a Hassan Piker on the left who's reaching you know,

0:28:41.840 --> 0:28:46.680
<v Speaker 3>tenion million, yeah, twenty million people, and you know, my

0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:50.400
<v Speaker 3>beloved Anderson Cooper is reaching one million people. Right, that's

0:28:50.400 --> 0:28:56.360
<v Speaker 3>a that's not a it's just a statement about how

0:28:56.480 --> 0:29:00.280
<v Speaker 3>broad the information landscape is. You know, the battles take

0:29:00.280 --> 0:29:03.920
<v Speaker 3>place on Twitch, the battles that play take place, you

0:29:03.920 --> 0:29:07.280
<v Speaker 3>know with these streamers, the battles that take place on YouTube,

0:29:07.400 --> 0:29:10.959
<v Speaker 3>among influencers that those of us in the mainstream Normanis

0:29:10.960 --> 0:29:13.640
<v Speaker 3>have never heard of, but are reaching way more actual

0:29:13.720 --> 0:29:18.040
<v Speaker 3>human beings than the entirety of mainstream media. I mean,

0:29:18.080 --> 0:29:21.440
<v Speaker 3>you take someone like, you know, I show Speed, you

0:29:21.480 --> 0:29:25.840
<v Speaker 3>know this, you know, cute black kid who his worst

0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:28.959
<v Speaker 3>week is better than CNN's best week. And he's just

0:29:29.000 --> 0:29:30.640
<v Speaker 3>like a cute black kid who just like you.

0:29:30.600 --> 0:29:31.720
<v Speaker 1>Know, like racing animals.

0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:36.120
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I know, but but but but Speed went, but

0:29:36.160 --> 0:29:38.360
<v Speaker 3>Speed went to Africa and shut the whole continent down.

0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:43.520
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's just nuts. And so so I just think,

0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:46.240
<v Speaker 3>first of all, in this fight for attention, I think

0:29:46.240 --> 0:29:49.040
<v Speaker 3>it's important for kind of the normies to recognize it

0:29:49.080 --> 0:29:50.920
<v Speaker 3>ain't a fight between the New York Times and Wall

0:29:50.920 --> 0:29:55.280
<v Speaker 3>Street Journal. That ain't the fight. It's a massive, you know,

0:29:55.520 --> 0:30:01.040
<v Speaker 3>set of podcasts, streamers, YouTube shows, you people with accounts

0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:02.320
<v Speaker 3>on x Instagram.

0:30:02.560 --> 0:30:03.840
<v Speaker 1>It's flatten completely.

0:30:04.320 --> 0:30:08.640
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and so in that world, you know, you know,

0:30:08.720 --> 0:30:14.080
<v Speaker 3>horror shows like Candice Owens and Tucker Carlson are competitives,

0:30:14.200 --> 0:30:20.720
<v Speaker 3>real competitive, real competitive, And so I don't have enough

0:30:20.800 --> 0:30:24.720
<v Speaker 3>visibility on any given day into what's happening you know

0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:27.240
<v Speaker 3>in the deep. You know, you just call them fever swamps.

0:30:27.280 --> 0:30:29.760
<v Speaker 3>But now they're not the beaver swamps. That's just the content.

0:30:29.840 --> 0:30:36.440
<v Speaker 3>That's a massive continent of conversation. And so I think

0:30:37.480 --> 0:30:40.640
<v Speaker 3>likely the likely case, unless we build some better tools

0:30:40.680 --> 0:30:44.000
<v Speaker 3>for just monitoring and listening and understanding the world, I

0:30:44.000 --> 0:30:46.920
<v Speaker 3>think likely we're going to be surprised by the kinds

0:30:47.000 --> 0:30:50.040
<v Speaker 3>not just kinds of individuals. I worry less about the individuals,

0:30:50.080 --> 0:30:53.720
<v Speaker 3>but the kinds of arguments that that that that take hold.

0:30:53.760 --> 0:30:58.880
<v Speaker 3>This anti Jewish stuff is really terrifying. Yes, and they

0:30:58.880 --> 0:31:01.600
<v Speaker 3>can call it anti Zionism and call anti Israel. But

0:31:01.760 --> 0:31:03.680
<v Speaker 3>you can't tell the difference if you just if you

0:31:03.720 --> 0:31:06.640
<v Speaker 3>just think, here's an anti Jewish bigot, Yeah, here's an

0:31:06.680 --> 0:31:10.480
<v Speaker 3>anti Zionist zealot, and here's like a right wing conspiracy

0:31:10.520 --> 0:31:13.480
<v Speaker 3>theory that's seriously doesn't like Israel and then just mix

0:31:13.600 --> 0:31:16.080
<v Speaker 3>up the you can't tell the difference. Yeah.

0:31:16.120 --> 0:31:17.440
<v Speaker 1>Also on the same Yeah.

0:31:17.200 --> 0:31:18.960
<v Speaker 3>So you can say, well, I'm not against jew Jews,

0:31:19.000 --> 0:31:21.200
<v Speaker 3>I'm just against Israel. Well, then you need to make

0:31:21.280 --> 0:31:22.240
<v Speaker 3>it very clear.

0:31:22.840 --> 0:31:24.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, distinguish your message.

0:31:24.280 --> 0:31:26.520
<v Speaker 3>Just distinguish your message. And they're not remotely interested in

0:31:26.560 --> 0:31:29.080
<v Speaker 3>doing that. And that's true on the right and the left. Yeah,

0:31:29.120 --> 0:31:34.080
<v Speaker 3>and whenever you see anti Jewish hatred bubble up in

0:31:34.120 --> 0:31:36.960
<v Speaker 3>a society, the next thing, the next scene is never

0:31:37.000 --> 0:31:37.600
<v Speaker 3>a good scene.

0:31:37.640 --> 0:31:38.760
<v Speaker 1>It's not a good scene.

0:31:39.480 --> 0:31:39.560
<v Speaker 2>Esh.

0:31:53.480 --> 0:31:55.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, let's talk about the left. The Democrats are struggling.

0:31:55.800 --> 0:31:59.160
<v Speaker 2>The DNC autopsy was a mess, both the rollout and

0:31:59.320 --> 0:32:02.960
<v Speaker 2>the actual document. People are calling for Ken Martin to

0:32:03.000 --> 0:32:06.360
<v Speaker 2>step down, and that's you know, I have no joy

0:32:06.680 --> 0:32:09.040
<v Speaker 2>in discussing that. In fact, I have a lot of

0:32:09.200 --> 0:32:13.160
<v Speaker 2>anger and fear about the state of the Democratic Party

0:32:13.200 --> 0:32:15.360
<v Speaker 2>because as I look at the right and how dangerous

0:32:15.400 --> 0:32:17.480
<v Speaker 2>I think they are, well, the right, the left better

0:32:17.520 --> 0:32:19.640
<v Speaker 2>figure something out, and they're not there.

0:32:21.600 --> 0:32:24.640
<v Speaker 1>What are you making of sort of the mess on

0:32:24.720 --> 0:32:25.320
<v Speaker 1>the left? Right?

0:32:25.360 --> 0:32:30.080
<v Speaker 3>Now? You know, we have similar dynamics in our party.

0:32:30.240 --> 0:32:33.400
<v Speaker 3>You know, obviously I'm a a proud Democrat and I'm never,

0:32:33.560 --> 0:32:37.640
<v Speaker 3>never afraid to criticize, you know, my side of the aisle.

0:32:40.960 --> 0:32:43.800
<v Speaker 3>I think that you have a few factors. You do

0:32:43.920 --> 0:32:49.040
<v Speaker 3>have this broader information landscape that a Hassan Piker, for instance,

0:32:49.160 --> 0:32:55.280
<v Speaker 3>can you know, dominate and do very well. Yeah, you

0:32:55.400 --> 0:32:58.800
<v Speaker 3>have a mom, Donnie, you know who I think even

0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:00.880
<v Speaker 3>this time last year was an own to most people,

0:33:01.400 --> 0:33:04.080
<v Speaker 3>and it's now you know, uh, you know, went from

0:33:04.240 --> 0:33:07.719
<v Speaker 3>less than one percent am id to a global celebrity.

0:33:08.560 --> 0:33:10.480
<v Speaker 3>I talk to people who've been to Europe and people

0:33:10.480 --> 0:33:13.800
<v Speaker 3>are wearing Mom Donnie t shirts in Europe. I mean

0:33:13.880 --> 0:33:18.120
<v Speaker 3>that gives you a sense of how volatile and how

0:33:18.280 --> 0:33:26.680
<v Speaker 3>unpredictable this information marketplaces. And so the the again, the armies,

0:33:26.720 --> 0:33:29.440
<v Speaker 3>the mainstream, the central left. You know, people like myself

0:33:29.840 --> 0:33:36.720
<v Speaker 3>have no answer, zero answer to Sanpiker, to Mom Donnie

0:33:37.840 --> 0:33:44.240
<v Speaker 3>and should expect to get continue to lose continued mind

0:33:44.280 --> 0:33:48.760
<v Speaker 3>share to that side of the aisle. I think AOC

0:33:49.520 --> 0:33:57.760
<v Speaker 3>is uh increasingly popular. There's there's some disaffection with her

0:33:57.800 --> 0:33:59.880
<v Speaker 3>on the far left. I think that she's you know,

0:34:00.200 --> 0:34:02.760
<v Speaker 3>moderated too much. I don't see it, but you know,

0:34:04.240 --> 0:34:06.840
<v Speaker 3>but they do, but they do, and so but I

0:34:06.880 --> 0:34:08.879
<v Speaker 3>don't think it's going to cause her any problems because

0:34:08.880 --> 0:34:13.000
<v Speaker 3>there's there's no So do you see an ALC candidacy

0:34:13.800 --> 0:34:17.919
<v Speaker 3>in a world where all the middle is chopped up

0:34:18.680 --> 0:34:23.279
<v Speaker 3>between you know, everybody from you know Kentucky governor to

0:34:23.760 --> 0:34:27.839
<v Speaker 3>you know Pete Bootages to Gavin too, you know, Wes Moore.

0:34:28.719 --> 0:34:33.000
<v Speaker 3>If the middle is chopped up twelve different ways than

0:34:33.360 --> 0:34:36.520
<v Speaker 3>who runs on the left. So you probably have a

0:34:36.640 --> 0:34:41.000
<v Speaker 3>row Kana and but you may have an ALC. And

0:34:41.120 --> 0:34:45.279
<v Speaker 3>if if ALC has the entire left to ourselves, well

0:34:45.360 --> 0:34:49.560
<v Speaker 3>everybody else is just shredding themselves over policy minushawn healthcare.

0:34:50.560 --> 0:34:53.040
<v Speaker 3>You get very interesting primary in two thousand and eight.

0:34:53.680 --> 0:34:57.840
<v Speaker 3>What I see is that there is this age problem

0:34:58.560 --> 0:35:02.799
<v Speaker 3>in our party. Yeah. You know, look, I'm in my

0:35:03.000 --> 0:35:07.200
<v Speaker 3>late fifties. Corey Booker is in his late fifties. Well,

0:35:07.239 --> 0:35:11.719
<v Speaker 3>so we're still considered somewhat young. Yeah that's nuts, you know,

0:35:12.600 --> 0:35:16.560
<v Speaker 3>like that's nuts. Corey Booker is still considered like a

0:35:16.640 --> 0:35:19.520
<v Speaker 3>young rising star, Like, how the hell is that possible?

0:35:19.960 --> 0:35:23.359
<v Speaker 3>You know, you know, you know, Corey and I've known

0:35:23.360 --> 0:35:26.239
<v Speaker 3>each other since the early nineties. Yeah, you know, one

0:35:26.239 --> 0:35:28.759
<v Speaker 3>of my closest you know, buddies in politics.

0:35:28.920 --> 0:35:30.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, quarter century ago.

0:35:31.239 --> 0:35:33.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, more more not.

0:35:33.000 --> 0:35:35.000
<v Speaker 2>To put on it, yeah yeah.

0:35:35.080 --> 0:35:40.399
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So, and so there is this age problem. Part

0:35:40.400 --> 0:35:44.799
<v Speaker 3>of it is that, you know, you have a kind

0:35:44.800 --> 0:35:46.640
<v Speaker 3>of you know, once in a century talent, like an

0:35:46.640 --> 0:35:49.480
<v Speaker 3>anti Pelosi who, whatever people feel about her, it was

0:35:49.560 --> 0:35:53.480
<v Speaker 3>one of the most effective legislators ever. Hard to just

0:35:53.520 --> 0:35:57.040
<v Speaker 3>push her off the stage, and then the Congressional Black

0:35:57.080 --> 0:36:00.560
<v Speaker 3>Caucus in particular is a has been a pository of

0:36:00.600 --> 0:36:04.360
<v Speaker 3>people who have tremendous esteem uh in the in the

0:36:04.360 --> 0:36:08.040
<v Speaker 3>black community in particular, and Democratic Party more generally. So

0:36:08.040 --> 0:36:10.040
<v Speaker 3>it's kind of hard to get these people out of

0:36:10.040 --> 0:36:14.200
<v Speaker 3>the way. Yeah, but now you pay a price, yeah,

0:36:14.280 --> 0:36:17.920
<v Speaker 3>because it's very hard to convince people that a party

0:36:17.920 --> 0:36:20.920
<v Speaker 3>made of a people who've been around this law is gonna.

0:36:20.719 --> 0:36:25.040
<v Speaker 1>Do something different, right, Well, and we've seen them not yes.

0:36:25.239 --> 0:36:29.440
<v Speaker 3>And world's history was determined by two people wanted to

0:36:29.480 --> 0:36:35.000
<v Speaker 3>stay tune law yeah, with Bitter Getinensburg and Joe Biden. Yeah,

0:36:35.480 --> 0:36:39.600
<v Speaker 3>decided to stay too law yep. And and so.

0:36:41.760 --> 0:36:42.640
<v Speaker 1>And that's painful.

0:36:43.200 --> 0:36:46.759
<v Speaker 3>It's very painful. And so you know, I didn't know

0:36:46.800 --> 0:36:49.520
<v Speaker 3>with Britty Ginnisberg, but you know, in the bomb administration.

0:36:49.760 --> 0:36:51.840
<v Speaker 3>You know, everybody says I was in the Oboma administration.

0:36:51.920 --> 0:36:53.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah that's true, but I worked for Joe Biden. That

0:36:53.680 --> 0:36:55.279
<v Speaker 3>was you know, that was who I worked for, and

0:36:55.360 --> 0:36:59.920
<v Speaker 3>so you know, I am you know, it was just

0:37:00.360 --> 0:37:05.200
<v Speaker 3>painful to see him make a decision that was just

0:37:05.640 --> 0:37:10.239
<v Speaker 3>so ill advised and and open the door. I mean,

0:37:10.400 --> 0:37:16.400
<v Speaker 3>he now just becomes like a shortcomings in his failures

0:37:16.920 --> 0:37:20.239
<v Speaker 3>define him more than his great success. He had just

0:37:20.280 --> 0:37:23.279
<v Speaker 3>decided to leave after the first term, he'd beyond Mount

0:37:23.360 --> 0:37:26.759
<v Speaker 3>Rushmore because except for the inflation, like he you know,

0:37:26.800 --> 0:37:30.320
<v Speaker 3>he would have restored the American Republic. He would have

0:37:30.320 --> 0:37:32.920
<v Speaker 3>passed a bunch of good stuff and.

0:37:32.880 --> 0:37:34.960
<v Speaker 1>Maybe gotten another Democrat elected, and.

0:37:34.920 --> 0:37:37.319
<v Speaker 3>Then maybe got another Democrat elected. And instead, you know,

0:37:37.400 --> 0:37:40.160
<v Speaker 3>he's like below Jimmy Carter in the minds of a

0:37:40.160 --> 0:37:41.080
<v Speaker 3>lot of people.

0:37:40.840 --> 0:37:46.880
<v Speaker 2>Unfortunately well, and that inability to try different things, to

0:37:46.960 --> 0:37:49.000
<v Speaker 2>do different things has manifest on the left in a

0:37:49.000 --> 0:37:53.360
<v Speaker 2>few ways. I think, you know, Mamdannie's success I covered

0:37:53.360 --> 0:37:57.600
<v Speaker 2>that race is a big warning to the party because

0:37:57.600 --> 0:38:00.440
<v Speaker 2>he won without the party for the most part. He

0:38:00.480 --> 0:38:02.719
<v Speaker 2>had a lot of backing from the Democratic Socialists, but

0:38:02.760 --> 0:38:05.800
<v Speaker 2>almost no support from the Democratic Party.

0:38:06.320 --> 0:38:08.200
<v Speaker 3>And over in it didn't matter.

0:38:08.600 --> 0:38:11.480
<v Speaker 2>And it didn't matter, and over in Maine, I'm seeing

0:38:11.520 --> 0:38:14.239
<v Speaker 2>sort of a similar thing. Like Democrats in New York

0:38:14.320 --> 0:38:19.880
<v Speaker 2>really wanted Cuomo, right, that was Schumer's pick, so they

0:38:19.880 --> 0:38:21.240
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to help mum Donnie.

0:38:21.280 --> 0:38:22.440
<v Speaker 1>He won without them.

0:38:22.480 --> 0:38:26.719
<v Speaker 2>In Maine, Schumer picked Janet Mills to run against Susan Collins.

0:38:26.800 --> 0:38:28.800
<v Speaker 1>That was not what the people wanted.

0:38:29.480 --> 0:38:32.520
<v Speaker 2>Now they're stuck, probably with Graham Plattner as the presumptive

0:38:32.520 --> 0:38:35.560
<v Speaker 2>Democratic nominee. We'll see how that goes. Maybe he pulls

0:38:35.600 --> 0:38:36.960
<v Speaker 2>off a Mum Donnie.

0:38:37.280 --> 0:38:37.680
<v Speaker 1>Maybe not.

0:38:40.200 --> 0:38:44.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm looking at LA and Democrats there. Whatever you think

0:38:44.800 --> 0:38:48.960
<v Speaker 2>of Spencer Pratt put that aside. Democrats have decided LA

0:38:49.160 --> 0:38:51.279
<v Speaker 2>is great. We're going to fight for the status quo.

0:38:51.440 --> 0:38:55.359
<v Speaker 2>We're going to fight against this reality star newcomer who's

0:38:55.400 --> 0:38:58.399
<v Speaker 2>identifying all the problems that just normal people can see

0:38:58.400 --> 0:38:59.080
<v Speaker 2>with their own eyes.

0:38:59.120 --> 0:39:01.680
<v Speaker 1>We're going to dellvoter la is great.

0:39:01.920 --> 0:39:04.719
<v Speaker 2>You want the incumbent mayor to stick around, and if

0:39:04.760 --> 0:39:07.160
<v Speaker 2>you don't want her, maybe you want the incumbent city

0:39:07.160 --> 0:39:11.120
<v Speaker 2>council woman to become, you know, the next the next mayor.

0:39:11.200 --> 0:39:15.160
<v Speaker 2>It's just this fighting for the status quo that I

0:39:15.200 --> 0:39:20.240
<v Speaker 2>think has really disappointed average voters.

0:39:20.320 --> 0:39:22.400
<v Speaker 3>You know, I had a chance, when I was a

0:39:22.440 --> 0:39:26.000
<v Speaker 3>young guy to be in the room with Tony Blair

0:39:26.200 --> 0:39:30.520
<v Speaker 3>and Bill Clinton. I was very young and they were

0:39:30.800 --> 0:39:34.560
<v Speaker 3>at the peak of their powers, and you know, a

0:39:34.600 --> 0:39:39.320
<v Speaker 3>bunch of up and coming political kids. But Tony Blair

0:39:39.320 --> 0:39:45.239
<v Speaker 3>said something in that meeting that I've always kept in

0:39:45.280 --> 0:39:48.960
<v Speaker 3>my mind, he said. He says, what happens is that

0:39:49.040 --> 0:39:53.080
<v Speaker 3>the right wing comes on so hard. They are so destructive,

0:39:53.320 --> 0:39:56.719
<v Speaker 3>they are so aggressive, that the tendency is to want

0:39:56.800 --> 0:40:01.800
<v Speaker 3>to defend the institutions from them, yes, and to defend

0:40:02.560 --> 0:40:05.680
<v Speaker 3>what has made the country great and strong, to defend

0:40:05.680 --> 0:40:08.239
<v Speaker 3>common sense and reason. But you wind up seeming like

0:40:08.280 --> 0:40:11.600
<v Speaker 3>you're defending the status qua right and that you always

0:40:11.640 --> 0:40:14.839
<v Speaker 3>have to be on the march for reform. That's the

0:40:14.880 --> 0:40:17.279
<v Speaker 3>most important message that you can say to people, is

0:40:17.280 --> 0:40:19.759
<v Speaker 3>that you're not satisfied with the status quo, but you

0:40:19.840 --> 0:40:24.560
<v Speaker 3>have better answers for change, you know. And when you

0:40:24.600 --> 0:40:27.640
<v Speaker 3>get pushed off of that and you're just reacting to

0:40:27.719 --> 0:40:29.920
<v Speaker 3>the reaction and the reaction of the reaction to the

0:40:30.000 --> 0:40:33.399
<v Speaker 3>last crazy thing that they said, then you're playing into

0:40:33.400 --> 0:40:36.960
<v Speaker 3>their hands. And I think Tony Blair and Bill Clinton

0:40:37.000 --> 0:40:40.560
<v Speaker 3>in their generation were able to convince people that they

0:40:40.600 --> 0:40:44.680
<v Speaker 3>want to preserve the best but fix the rest. And

0:40:45.560 --> 0:40:49.640
<v Speaker 3>if you don't show that passion for people, I think,

0:40:49.680 --> 0:40:53.440
<v Speaker 3>you know, to me, if I sometimes find myself a

0:40:53.480 --> 0:40:55.680
<v Speaker 3>little bit at odds with my party or kind of

0:40:55.719 --> 0:40:59.279
<v Speaker 3>almost a strange from my party, is that I don't

0:40:59.280 --> 0:41:02.160
<v Speaker 3>really give a fuck up about it. I don't give

0:41:02.200 --> 0:41:06.120
<v Speaker 3>a fuck. I was never a politician. Yeah, I had

0:41:06.160 --> 0:41:08.319
<v Speaker 3>one job in government, it was for Barack Obama for

0:41:08.400 --> 0:41:10.400
<v Speaker 3>less than a year. Other than that, I've been at

0:41:10.440 --> 0:41:13.800
<v Speaker 3>grassroots you know, activists, you know till you know people

0:41:14.480 --> 0:41:19.920
<v Speaker 3>you know forget. I did twenty years working in criminal justice, prisons,

0:41:20.480 --> 0:41:26.239
<v Speaker 3>juvenile halls, jails. Uh, you know, went to jail with

0:41:26.840 --> 0:41:31.680
<v Speaker 3>Apple Aschian coal miners, fighting against coal companies. You know,

0:41:31.880 --> 0:41:35.520
<v Speaker 3>I come out of you know, real grassroots fights, and

0:41:35.520 --> 0:41:37.920
<v Speaker 3>the Democrats were frankly never that to help them, like a

0:41:37.960 --> 0:41:40.960
<v Speaker 3>lot of times, like in California, fighting against a prison system.

0:41:40.960 --> 0:41:47.280
<v Speaker 3>You're fighting against Willie Brown and Jerry Brown and Gray Davis.

0:41:47.320 --> 0:41:49.880
<v Speaker 3>You know, we built more prisons in California than they

0:41:49.960 --> 0:41:53.040
<v Speaker 3>built in Texas and close closed fewer than Texas has

0:41:53.239 --> 0:41:55.879
<v Speaker 3>on the downside. So if you're me, you know, look,

0:41:55.880 --> 0:42:00.439
<v Speaker 3>I've you know, fighting against Democrats who had the head

0:42:00.520 --> 0:42:02.759
<v Speaker 3>up there but and didn't understand what was happening at

0:42:02.760 --> 0:42:05.319
<v Speaker 3>the grocer's level. Has been my entire career, right, and

0:42:05.360 --> 0:42:10.600
<v Speaker 3>so you know you're not surprised and just and not beholden. Yeah, right,

0:42:10.719 --> 0:42:13.359
<v Speaker 3>you know, when we passed the First Step Act under

0:42:13.400 --> 0:42:18.080
<v Speaker 3>Donald Trump, which by the way, got uh now, sixty

0:42:18.120 --> 0:42:21.040
<v Speaker 3>thousand people out of federal prison. I didn't say sixty people,

0:42:21.160 --> 0:42:24.520
<v Speaker 3>said sixty thousand people out of federal prison. Helped to

0:42:24.960 --> 0:42:28.360
<v Speaker 3>form you know, it was a part of that coalition,

0:42:28.640 --> 0:42:32.920
<v Speaker 3>you know, included a Jared Kushner, included a New Gingrish,

0:42:32.960 --> 0:42:36.120
<v Speaker 3>included a Nancy Pelosi, included a jakeem jeffrees. Why are

0:42:36.120 --> 0:42:38.960
<v Speaker 3>we able to do it? Because we're in every district

0:42:39.000 --> 0:42:41.560
<v Speaker 3>there's some family who's got somebody locked up for some

0:42:41.600 --> 0:42:44.440
<v Speaker 3>stupid ass reason. Yeah, and they don't care if you're

0:42:44.440 --> 0:42:46.320
<v Speaker 3>a Democrat or Republican. Can you help my child?

0:42:46.560 --> 0:42:46.799
<v Speaker 1>Right?

0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:50.160
<v Speaker 3>And we pulled together that coalition in red states and

0:42:50.200 --> 0:42:53.360
<v Speaker 3>blue states, and we got eighty seven US Senators to

0:42:53.440 --> 0:42:57.360
<v Speaker 3>vote to reduce the federal prison population. Now, that doesn't

0:42:57.400 --> 0:42:59.800
<v Speaker 3>come from being a loyal Democrat or a loyal Republican,

0:42:59.920 --> 0:43:02.839
<v Speaker 3>or or an anti Democrat anti Republican. It comes from

0:43:02.880 --> 0:43:06.040
<v Speaker 3>caring about everyday people. And so that's that's where I

0:43:06.080 --> 0:43:09.000
<v Speaker 3>come from. And so when I see the party doing

0:43:09.040 --> 0:43:12.279
<v Speaker 3>stuff it's I don't think is smart. I don't have

0:43:12.320 --> 0:43:17.080
<v Speaker 3>a problem complaining about it because Democrat Democrats have have.

0:43:19.480 --> 0:43:21.040
<v Speaker 3>You know, they're they're to my point of view, they're

0:43:21.040 --> 0:43:24.120
<v Speaker 3>better than the alternative, but they've been disappointing for a while.

0:43:24.680 --> 0:43:28.960
<v Speaker 1>Yes, well, and a lot of people believe that.

0:43:29.080 --> 0:43:31.560
<v Speaker 2>And and that goes to my next question about this

0:43:31.680 --> 0:43:36.440
<v Speaker 2>asymmetry and appetites among the bases on the left and

0:43:36.480 --> 0:43:38.440
<v Speaker 2>the right. I've been saying for a long time the

0:43:38.520 --> 0:43:41.360
<v Speaker 2>left has a problem because its voters hold it to

0:43:41.440 --> 0:43:44.480
<v Speaker 2>a much higher standard than the right holds its leaders.

0:43:45.200 --> 0:43:47.880
<v Speaker 2>The left is mad at Joe Biden, and they're going

0:43:47.960 --> 0:43:49.960
<v Speaker 2>to say it. They're mad at Kamala, They're mad at

0:43:49.960 --> 0:43:53.000
<v Speaker 2>the party. And you've got you know, whether it's the

0:43:53.040 --> 0:43:56.360
<v Speaker 2>pod Save guys coming after Ken Martin or just voters,

0:43:56.400 --> 0:43:59.000
<v Speaker 2>black voters leaving the party and saying my vote is

0:43:59.040 --> 0:44:02.759
<v Speaker 2>not yours to take for granted, they're mad and they're

0:44:02.800 --> 0:44:06.680
<v Speaker 2>saying it. A perfect example happened just over the weekend.

0:44:06.680 --> 0:44:11.239
<v Speaker 2>The DNC posted a Memorial Day message honoring the thirteen

0:44:11.360 --> 0:44:14.839
<v Speaker 2>fallen soldiers that have died in the Iran War. They

0:44:14.880 --> 0:44:18.720
<v Speaker 2>got backlash from Democrats people like Tammy Duckworth, who thought

0:44:18.760 --> 0:44:23.200
<v Speaker 2>it was exploiting dead soldiers for a political attack. Ad

0:44:24.320 --> 0:44:28.440
<v Speaker 2>Folks like Tammy expressed their disdain for it, thought it

0:44:28.480 --> 0:44:29.800
<v Speaker 2>was really in bad taste.

0:44:29.920 --> 0:44:33.560
<v Speaker 1>They were offended by this. Whatever you think of that argument.

0:44:34.760 --> 0:44:37.359
<v Speaker 2>Over on the right, Trump posted a lengthy Memorial Day

0:44:37.360 --> 0:44:39.120
<v Speaker 2>screed against Democrats.

0:44:39.760 --> 0:44:41.880
<v Speaker 1>Right, no one on the right.

0:44:41.760 --> 0:44:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Blinked deny, and if they did, he wouldn't take it down.

0:44:44.080 --> 0:44:48.239
<v Speaker 2>The Democrats took their message down immediately. What do you

0:44:48.320 --> 0:44:54.640
<v Speaker 2>make of this uneven battlefield and a total double standard

0:44:54.680 --> 0:45:00.319
<v Speaker 2>that the voters have set where Democrats voters. I don't

0:45:00.320 --> 0:45:02.719
<v Speaker 2>want them to lower their standards like that can't be

0:45:02.760 --> 0:45:05.360
<v Speaker 2>the answer. But at the same time, they are not

0:45:05.480 --> 0:45:08.640
<v Speaker 2>fighting the same fight because Republicans don't care that their

0:45:08.680 --> 0:45:11.920
<v Speaker 2>party is hypocritical, that it promised things it's not delivering

0:45:12.200 --> 0:45:15.279
<v Speaker 2>like they so are they have not cared about that.

0:45:16.440 --> 0:45:19.000
<v Speaker 3>Well, you know it's hard for me to know. I

0:45:19.040 --> 0:45:22.359
<v Speaker 3>wasn't aware of that story. And also online in real

0:45:22.400 --> 0:45:25.960
<v Speaker 3>life aren't the same. Yeah, you know, sometimes what I'm

0:45:25.960 --> 0:45:28.880
<v Speaker 3>feeling despondent. I joke and say was the difference between

0:45:29.000 --> 0:45:32.960
<v Speaker 3>liberals and cannibals. Cannibals don't eat their friends and family.

0:45:33.600 --> 0:45:37.280
<v Speaker 3>That's kind of my that's my right. So so sometimes

0:45:37.280 --> 0:45:39.719
<v Speaker 3>you know what I feel this Pond, I feel that way. Yeah,

0:45:40.480 --> 0:45:44.880
<v Speaker 3>but also look, I mean I think that low self

0:45:44.960 --> 0:45:48.359
<v Speaker 3>esteem is not a good place to be standing when

0:45:48.400 --> 0:45:53.120
<v Speaker 3>you're trying to lead. Sometimes people are going to disagree

0:45:53.160 --> 0:45:55.239
<v Speaker 3>with you, but they'll respect you more if you don't

0:45:55.239 --> 0:45:58.200
<v Speaker 3>back down. Yeah, Like a lot of people don't agree

0:45:58.200 --> 0:45:59.960
<v Speaker 3>with my position on Israel, I don't agree with my

0:46:00.040 --> 0:46:03.800
<v Speaker 3>position on you know, working with Republicans on criminal justice reform.

0:46:04.200 --> 0:46:07.120
<v Speaker 3>They don't believe that in my position in terms of

0:46:07.160 --> 0:46:10.560
<v Speaker 3>being aggressively coalition in bridge building at a time when

0:46:10.560 --> 0:46:12.680
<v Speaker 3>a lot of black folks feel like we tried that

0:46:12.719 --> 0:46:15.400
<v Speaker 3>it didn't work, we should just retreat into our own camp.

0:46:16.080 --> 0:46:20.080
<v Speaker 3>But I don't back down. I don't change my position.

0:46:20.120 --> 0:46:22.520
<v Speaker 3>I don't post something and then somebody didn't like it,

0:46:22.520 --> 0:46:24.000
<v Speaker 3>so now I'm going to change my mind about it.

0:46:24.040 --> 0:46:26.440
<v Speaker 3>Like I just don't like it. Not everybody's. I'm not

0:46:26.480 --> 0:46:29.680
<v Speaker 3>everybody's cup of tea, And I think that we need

0:46:29.680 --> 0:46:32.760
<v Speaker 3>more of that. I would must rather for the party

0:46:32.840 --> 0:46:36.520
<v Speaker 3>for whoever posts that thing, to say, you know you're wrong,

0:46:37.000 --> 0:46:39.360
<v Speaker 3>and you know Tammy Duck work, will he love you

0:46:39.400 --> 0:46:43.200
<v Speaker 3>and you're wonderful, But we see it differently, and you know,

0:46:43.280 --> 0:46:46.279
<v Speaker 3>let's have the conversation. But this sort of I just

0:46:46.320 --> 0:46:49.640
<v Speaker 3>see it as like low self esteem politics, like please

0:46:49.800 --> 0:46:52.400
<v Speaker 3>like me, this kind of picked me politics. Please like me.

0:46:52.440 --> 0:46:54.840
<v Speaker 3>Please don't be mad at me, let me try to bemprove.

0:46:55.280 --> 0:46:56.440
<v Speaker 3>I just think it shows.

0:46:56.120 --> 0:46:59.520
<v Speaker 2>Weakness, and that happens on the left with special interests,

0:46:59.520 --> 0:47:02.160
<v Speaker 2>I think wart more so than it does on the right.

0:47:02.160 --> 0:47:03.680
<v Speaker 1>Threat has its own of course, but but.

0:47:03.960 --> 0:47:07.759
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, our coalition is broader, we have a lot more,

0:47:07.920 --> 0:47:08.960
<v Speaker 3>we have a lot more people.

0:47:09.160 --> 0:47:12.000
<v Speaker 2>But also yeah, but not wanting to let down this

0:47:12.120 --> 0:47:14.560
<v Speaker 2>special interest or that special yeah, but.

0:47:14.719 --> 0:47:16.400
<v Speaker 1>Gets into yeah.

0:47:16.440 --> 0:47:19.920
<v Speaker 3>But also people fall for like stupid shit, like for instance,

0:47:20.880 --> 0:47:24.359
<v Speaker 3>people say, well, you know this group feels this way.

0:47:24.440 --> 0:47:29.200
<v Speaker 3>What they really mean is some paid people who went

0:47:29.239 --> 0:47:33.279
<v Speaker 3>to college who got a grant and have a website

0:47:33.719 --> 0:47:39.400
<v Speaker 3>and claim to represent millions of people that they've never met. Yeah,

0:47:39.640 --> 0:47:41.840
<v Speaker 3>are going to be mad, and so like the groups,

0:47:42.000 --> 0:47:43.759
<v Speaker 3>like worrying about the groups, What are the groups going

0:47:43.840 --> 0:47:45.680
<v Speaker 3>to say? I don't give a shit about the groups

0:47:45.960 --> 0:47:47.880
<v Speaker 3>because I know all these people, we all went to

0:47:47.880 --> 0:47:50.520
<v Speaker 3>school together, we all get grants from the same people,

0:47:50.920 --> 0:47:53.239
<v Speaker 3>And they don't fool me that they represent who they

0:47:53.280 --> 0:47:55.840
<v Speaker 3>say they represent. But if you don't know any better,

0:47:55.880 --> 0:47:59.000
<v Speaker 3>you'll think that whoever showed up, you know, with their

0:47:59.000 --> 0:48:02.239
<v Speaker 3>coalition of seven groups that all claim to represent something,

0:48:02.239 --> 0:48:04.480
<v Speaker 3>actually they don't represent a goddamn thing half the time,

0:48:04.880 --> 0:48:06.799
<v Speaker 3>except for people who went to college and people who

0:48:06.800 --> 0:48:09.640
<v Speaker 3>give grants, and so I know that, so I don't

0:48:09.680 --> 0:48:14.040
<v Speaker 3>bow down. Also, online is not real life, like there's

0:48:14.640 --> 0:48:17.560
<v Speaker 3>you know you can It's like I know the people

0:48:17.600 --> 0:48:22.200
<v Speaker 3>who whip up these storms online and a lot of

0:48:22.200 --> 0:48:25.160
<v Speaker 3>it's synthetic, or at least it's it's not exactly a

0:48:25.239 --> 0:48:27.720
<v Speaker 3>reflection in public opinion. So you got to be willing

0:48:27.719 --> 0:48:29.600
<v Speaker 3>to You have to be willing to take the heat

0:48:29.640 --> 0:48:32.319
<v Speaker 3>from your from your base. And that's what's interesting to

0:48:32.360 --> 0:48:35.080
<v Speaker 3>me about you know, Trump and others is like Trump's

0:48:35.120 --> 0:48:36.840
<v Speaker 3>going to do Trump and you can like it or not.

0:48:37.640 --> 0:48:42.400
<v Speaker 3>And I think people over the long term respect that

0:48:42.480 --> 0:48:46.520
<v Speaker 3>because it shows strength if you if you realize you

0:48:46.520 --> 0:48:50.879
<v Speaker 3>can bully dad, bully mom and get your way. You're

0:48:50.920 --> 0:48:52.760
<v Speaker 3>happy in the in the short term, but you're actually

0:48:52.800 --> 0:48:54.960
<v Speaker 3>miserable in the long term. You don't respect your parents

0:48:55.800 --> 0:48:58.799
<v Speaker 3>when your parents are like I don't care what you said,

0:48:59.200 --> 0:49:01.919
<v Speaker 3>I said what I say, Sit down, go to your room.

0:49:02.280 --> 0:49:03.719
<v Speaker 3>You don't like it in the short term, but long

0:49:03.840 --> 0:49:05.600
<v Speaker 3>term you love it because you know, you say, you know,

0:49:05.640 --> 0:49:08.399
<v Speaker 3>my parents didn't screw around. It's just like a lot

0:49:08.440 --> 0:49:14.319
<v Speaker 3>of weakness on the left that I think we have

0:49:14.360 --> 0:49:15.560
<v Speaker 3>to be well and you know, we have to be

0:49:15.600 --> 0:49:18.280
<v Speaker 3>willing to if you're going to lead on the left,

0:49:18.440 --> 0:49:21.080
<v Speaker 3>it's a raucous bunch of people and you're not going

0:49:21.160 --> 0:49:24.320
<v Speaker 3>to please everybody. But if you can find a mass

0:49:24.360 --> 0:49:29.759
<v Speaker 3>base of people who are real folks, who say, I

0:49:29.800 --> 0:49:32.520
<v Speaker 3>believe in that woman, I think she's fighting for me,

0:49:33.520 --> 0:49:37.520
<v Speaker 3>then a lot of this online and middle class professional

0:49:37.880 --> 0:49:41.160
<v Speaker 3>layer becomes less important. That's the key. Can you can

0:49:41.239 --> 0:49:44.680
<v Speaker 3>you connect with real people who really believe in you,

0:49:45.320 --> 0:49:47.640
<v Speaker 3>and then all this stuff becomes less important.

0:49:47.800 --> 0:49:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, before we let you go, we like to end

0:50:00.120 --> 0:50:02.799
<v Speaker 2>an exit poll of a mental health minute where you

0:50:02.840 --> 0:50:07.040
<v Speaker 2>answer a few questions of varying degrees of seriousness. So

0:50:07.120 --> 0:50:10.520
<v Speaker 2>the first question is what's your favorite movie about politics?

0:50:11.920 --> 0:50:14.960
<v Speaker 3>Oh, it's a it's a movie that has Sean Penn

0:50:15.360 --> 0:50:20.120
<v Speaker 3>All the Kingsmen, where Sean Penn is the star of

0:50:20.160 --> 0:50:22.080
<v Speaker 3>that movie. I think it's a great, great film and

0:50:22.120 --> 0:50:24.359
<v Speaker 3>it teaches teaches a lot about politics.

0:50:24.840 --> 0:50:27.600
<v Speaker 2>If you were teaching a class about America, what's one

0:50:27.640 --> 0:50:29.279
<v Speaker 2>book you'd make your students read.

0:50:30.440 --> 0:50:35.319
<v Speaker 3>Oh, the Making of the Making of Black Revolutionaries. The

0:50:35.400 --> 0:50:37.840
<v Speaker 3>second half of that book by James Foreman. It's a

0:50:37.840 --> 0:50:41.000
<v Speaker 3>book about the Student Non Violent Coordinating Committee and what

0:50:41.080 --> 0:50:44.960
<v Speaker 3>they did in you know, going into the South. And

0:50:45.000 --> 0:50:47.040
<v Speaker 3>it's it's what James Foreman, who was a leader of

0:50:47.120 --> 0:50:50.239
<v Speaker 3>SNICK and all those kids who went south and some

0:50:50.280 --> 0:50:53.520
<v Speaker 3>of some were murdered, many were beaten, many were arrested.

0:50:54.080 --> 0:50:57.319
<v Speaker 3>He had them every night right down report field reports,

0:50:58.000 --> 0:51:00.440
<v Speaker 3>and so he has like so the book full of

0:51:00.520 --> 0:51:03.800
<v Speaker 3>like minute by minute, this person's missing, we went to

0:51:03.840 --> 0:51:07.040
<v Speaker 3>talk to this sheriff. It's really really gives you. The

0:51:07.080 --> 0:51:10.239
<v Speaker 3>Making of Black Revolutionaries by James Foreman really gives you

0:51:10.320 --> 0:51:14.759
<v Speaker 3>an insider account of how risky, how dangerous, and how

0:51:14.760 --> 0:51:18.640
<v Speaker 3>difficult it was for us to get you know, black

0:51:18.640 --> 0:51:22.040
<v Speaker 3>people registered to vote in this country in living memory.

0:51:22.239 --> 0:51:24.120
<v Speaker 3>This is not a thousand years ago. This is in

0:51:25.040 --> 0:51:31.000
<v Speaker 3>the living memory of your grandparents. It was a murderous

0:51:32.000 --> 0:51:34.359
<v Speaker 3>You were risking your life to sign a black person

0:51:34.440 --> 0:51:36.160
<v Speaker 3>up to vote in a third of America.

0:51:37.960 --> 0:51:42.000
<v Speaker 2>Great, what's something you find encouraging about the state of

0:51:42.040 --> 0:51:42.960
<v Speaker 2>politics today.

0:51:45.400 --> 0:51:48.919
<v Speaker 3>Look, I think that we haven't heard from the best

0:51:48.920 --> 0:51:52.960
<v Speaker 3>people yet. I think that most people are still on

0:51:53.040 --> 0:51:57.200
<v Speaker 3>the sidelines trying to make their individual lives work. At

0:51:57.200 --> 0:52:01.120
<v Speaker 3>some point they'll realize that they can't and someone will

0:52:01.120 --> 0:52:04.959
<v Speaker 3>come off off the bench in a negative posture. There's

0:52:04.960 --> 0:52:07.799
<v Speaker 3>gonna be some brilliant, beautiful, amazing people who stand up

0:52:08.480 --> 0:52:12.759
<v Speaker 3>and and and represent of a better path. So this

0:52:12.840 --> 0:52:17.520
<v Speaker 3>is this is what happens when demagogues and status quo defenders,

0:52:17.920 --> 0:52:20.200
<v Speaker 3>you know, duke it out on the on the on

0:52:20.280 --> 0:52:24.440
<v Speaker 3>the national stage for a decade. But but the best,

0:52:24.480 --> 0:52:26.239
<v Speaker 3>the best people in the country haven't been heard from it.

0:52:27.239 --> 0:52:30.759
<v Speaker 2>How do you unplug from the news and politics?

0:52:31.560 --> 0:52:33.800
<v Speaker 3>I mean, like, I've I got four kids, so sometimes

0:52:33.840 --> 0:52:37.080
<v Speaker 3>I you know, spend time, uh you know, doing dumb

0:52:37.160 --> 0:52:41.200
<v Speaker 3>things with them or fun things with them. You know.

0:52:41.200 --> 0:52:43.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm a person of very deep religious faith, as you know,

0:52:44.560 --> 0:52:47.520
<v Speaker 3>and so for me, like one reason why I have

0:52:47.560 --> 0:52:50.160
<v Speaker 3>a lot of independence and politics is that I have

0:52:50.239 --> 0:52:53.239
<v Speaker 3>my own religion and it's not the Democratic Party, you know,

0:52:53.520 --> 0:52:56.120
<v Speaker 3>And I think a lot of people who are not

0:52:56.200 --> 0:52:58.759
<v Speaker 3>people with faith and you know, including yourself, a great

0:52:58.800 --> 0:53:02.480
<v Speaker 3>respect for But there's some people who they're still theological.

0:53:02.600 --> 0:53:06.040
<v Speaker 3>They just protected into politics. They still are looking for

0:53:06.080 --> 0:53:09.240
<v Speaker 3>the Messiah. They just think it's Donald Trump or whoever.

0:53:09.280 --> 0:53:11.680
<v Speaker 3>The Democrats run every four years and they're still like

0:53:12.000 --> 0:53:14.640
<v Speaker 3>but all of those needs that some people try to

0:53:14.680 --> 0:53:17.719
<v Speaker 3>pull out of politics, I already have met because you know,

0:53:17.800 --> 0:53:20.040
<v Speaker 3>come out of the Black Church, and we got a lot,

0:53:20.360 --> 0:53:24.440
<v Speaker 3>a lot of a lot of assustenance over there. And

0:53:24.480 --> 0:53:26.719
<v Speaker 3>so I think between my you know, look, I'm I'm

0:53:26.760 --> 0:53:28.600
<v Speaker 3>a Southern kid. Faith and family is my thing.

0:53:29.000 --> 0:53:31.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, why do you do what you do?

0:53:32.640 --> 0:53:37.560
<v Speaker 3>No idea, no idea like I could, I could come

0:53:37.600 --> 0:53:39.440
<v Speaker 3>up with something. But the reality is, since I was

0:53:39.640 --> 0:53:43.520
<v Speaker 3>very little, I've been just mainly focused on politics. But

0:53:43.640 --> 0:53:46.120
<v Speaker 3>I was like a little kid, like in first grade,

0:53:46.320 --> 0:53:48.759
<v Speaker 3>I had a whole. I had a bulletin board in

0:53:48.800 --> 0:53:51.960
<v Speaker 3>my room, and I would whenever the Weekly Readers came out.

0:53:52.000 --> 0:53:54.440
<v Speaker 3>You're too young, but they used to have these newspapers

0:53:54.440 --> 0:53:57.359
<v Speaker 3>for children in school called the Weekly Reader. Yeah, and

0:53:57.400 --> 0:53:59.520
<v Speaker 3>it was terrible, like you touched it, like the ink

0:53:59.520 --> 0:54:01.120
<v Speaker 3>would come up off in your fingers. It was not

0:54:01.400 --> 0:54:03.560
<v Speaker 3>a high quality. But I would take my little round

0:54:03.560 --> 0:54:07.160
<v Speaker 3>scissors in anything about the Kennedy family or Doctor King.

0:54:07.160 --> 0:54:09.080
<v Speaker 3>I would cut out and I would bring it home

0:54:09.120 --> 0:54:10.799
<v Speaker 3>and I would stick it up on my bulletin board

0:54:10.880 --> 0:54:13.200
<v Speaker 3>because I was just really interested in the Kennedy's and

0:54:13.239 --> 0:54:17.400
<v Speaker 3>the Kings and Doctor King in like kindergarten first grade.

0:54:17.800 --> 0:54:20.080
<v Speaker 3>So some people were interested in politics, some people were

0:54:20.120 --> 0:54:23.760
<v Speaker 3>interested in music, art, sports. I was just a political

0:54:23.840 --> 0:54:26.000
<v Speaker 3>nerd from the beginning. And I have no idea why.

0:54:26.960 --> 0:54:30.319
<v Speaker 2>Okay, And the last question is very important to me.

0:54:30.560 --> 0:54:32.279
<v Speaker 2>I know the answer to this, but I have to

0:54:32.320 --> 0:54:35.720
<v Speaker 2>ask it. When is it iced coffee season?

0:54:37.840 --> 0:54:41.279
<v Speaker 3>I don't drink coffee. I don't know anything about that.

0:54:41.480 --> 0:54:44.960
<v Speaker 3>I know, Sorry, I knowd coffee, any coffee or alcohol.

0:54:45.320 --> 0:54:47.960
<v Speaker 3>HAVE never had any alcohol ever in my whole life.

0:54:48.239 --> 0:54:50.520
<v Speaker 3>Corey Booker is the same way Donald Trumps the same way.

0:54:50.560 --> 0:54:55.600
<v Speaker 3>So I don't tell too bad, but I don't know. Now.

0:54:55.640 --> 0:54:58.120
<v Speaker 3>Why would you have ice in the coffee? Isn't supposed

0:54:58.120 --> 0:54:58.359
<v Speaker 3>to be.

0:55:02.840 --> 0:55:03.160
<v Speaker 2>Usually?

0:55:03.640 --> 0:55:05.759
<v Speaker 1>Wait a second, why would you even have ice in

0:55:05.800 --> 0:55:06.400
<v Speaker 1>the coffee?

0:55:08.640 --> 0:55:12.080
<v Speaker 2>Well? The answer van is both cultural and spiritual. The

0:55:12.400 --> 0:55:14.520
<v Speaker 2>cultural answer is because I grew up in Massachusetts with

0:55:14.560 --> 0:55:15.360
<v Speaker 2>Dunkin Donuts.

0:55:15.480 --> 0:55:16.520
<v Speaker 1>That's the first answer.

0:55:16.800 --> 0:55:19.080
<v Speaker 2>The second answer is because I want to drink it fast.

0:55:19.160 --> 0:55:21.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to sip it. It's not precious. I

0:55:21.080 --> 0:55:23.759
<v Speaker 2>want it in my veins quickly, and I can't do

0:55:23.840 --> 0:55:26.439
<v Speaker 2>that when it's hot iced.

0:55:26.719 --> 0:55:29.919
<v Speaker 1>The answer is year round. There's no season. You drink

0:55:30.040 --> 0:55:30.959
<v Speaker 1>iced coffee year round.

0:55:31.000 --> 0:55:32.480
<v Speaker 2>But I know that, and we ask it at the

0:55:32.520 --> 0:55:34.719
<v Speaker 2>end of every pot, which is why I'm asking you

0:55:34.920 --> 0:55:37.160
<v Speaker 2>even though I know you don't drink coffee.

0:55:37.440 --> 0:55:37.920
<v Speaker 1>It's okay.

0:55:38.520 --> 0:55:40.880
<v Speaker 3>Well, I'm for whatever you're for in this.

0:55:41.160 --> 0:55:43.720
<v Speaker 1>I love you anyway. I love you anyway.

0:55:44.080 --> 0:55:46.320
<v Speaker 3>I'm sure if I if I, if ever, well, listen,

0:55:46.520 --> 0:55:49.839
<v Speaker 3>I do sometimes drink a diet coke on set when

0:55:49.840 --> 0:55:51.960
<v Speaker 3>we're like those of late nights.

0:55:52.000 --> 0:55:52.719
<v Speaker 1>Know that about you.

0:55:52.800 --> 0:55:54.960
<v Speaker 2>That's unrelated. It has nothing to do with coffee. But

0:55:55.000 --> 0:55:56.920
<v Speaker 2>that is a thing you did. That's true.

0:55:56.920 --> 0:55:58.759
<v Speaker 3>I've never had any coffee. I don't even know what.

0:56:00.280 --> 0:56:02.920
<v Speaker 2>Thanks Van Jones, Thanks so much for joining us on

0:56:02.920 --> 0:56:03.560
<v Speaker 2>Off the Cup today.

0:56:03.600 --> 0:56:04.480
<v Speaker 1>I really appreciate it.

0:56:04.480 --> 0:56:07.360
<v Speaker 2>You're a great deep thinker, and you're very thoughtful, and

0:56:07.400 --> 0:56:08.960
<v Speaker 2>I know you care a lot about the future of

0:56:09.000 --> 0:56:10.680
<v Speaker 2>this country, so it was great to have you on.

0:56:11.320 --> 0:56:13.360
<v Speaker 3>Well. I appreciate it, and thanks for including me, and

0:56:13.400 --> 0:56:14.360
<v Speaker 3>I'll come back anytime.

0:56:15.000 --> 0:56:17.560
<v Speaker 1>Thanks to Van. Thanks to you for tuning in. PS.

0:56:17.600 --> 0:56:19.120
<v Speaker 1>There's a new talking.

0:56:18.920 --> 0:56:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Coffee up where we taste test a brand new coffee

0:56:21.960 --> 0:56:26.000
<v Speaker 2>product will surprise you, and we dish on all kinds

0:56:26.000 --> 0:56:29.840
<v Speaker 2>of fun stuff because coffee really does reveal a person

0:56:29.920 --> 0:56:31.440
<v Speaker 2>and it's kind of just a gateway to like talk

0:56:31.440 --> 0:56:32.640
<v Speaker 2>about anything, and we do.

0:56:33.080 --> 0:56:35.680
<v Speaker 1>So check that out and we'll see you next time

0:56:35.680 --> 0:56:36.359
<v Speaker 1>on Off the Cup.

0:56:39.640 --> 0:56:41.880
<v Speaker 2>Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcast as

0:56:41.960 --> 0:56:43.360
<v Speaker 2>part of the Reason Choice Network.

0:56:43.680 --> 0:56:45.080
<v Speaker 1>If you want more, check out the.

0:56:45.000 --> 0:56:48.920
<v Speaker 2>Other Reason Choice podcast, Spolitics with Jamel Hill and Native

0:56:48.960 --> 0:56:49.479
<v Speaker 2>Land Pod.

0:56:49.960 --> 0:56:52.680
<v Speaker 1>For Off the Cup, I'm your host, Si Cup. Editing

0:56:52.680 --> 0:56:54.360
<v Speaker 1>and sound design by Derek Clements.

0:56:54.520 --> 0:56:58.120
<v Speaker 2>Our executive producers are me Si Cup and Lauren Hanson.

0:56:58.440 --> 0:57:01.040
<v Speaker 2>Rate and review wherever you get your pod casts, follow

0:57:01.080 --> 0:57:03.080
<v Speaker 2>and subscribe for new episodes every week