1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,760 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Daddy and I'm Deblina Chuck Reboarding. And today 4 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna start the podcast with a myth, or more specifically, 5 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: the epic poem version of this myth and Nia by Virgil. 6 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: And you're probably familiar with the main arc of the Aenia. 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 1: The young hero a Nias escapes from Troy and eventually 8 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: goes on to start Rome. But it's the middle part 9 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 1: of the story that concerns us today, his little romantic 10 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: stopover in Carthage. So according to the Ania, a Nia 11 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,239 Speaker 1: stopped in the North African city of Carthage, where he 12 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: was welcomed by the city's queen, died Oh. And it 13 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: wasn't long before she fell in love with him. And 14 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: then when Jupiter finally ordered a Nias to keep on 15 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: keeping on with his travels and move along, died Oh 16 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 1: basically flipped out. To put it in a non epic 17 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: poetry kind of way, she ended up committing suicide and 18 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: swore everlasting hatred between East and West. And and here's 19 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 1: what she had to say in a in an epic 20 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: poetry kind of way. No love between our people's ever 21 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: shore clash with shore, sea against sea and sword against sword. 22 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 1: This is my curse, war between all our people's, all 23 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: their people's endless war. It's pretty serious stuff there. So, 24 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: as a Nia's finds out on a subsequent jaunt to 25 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: the underworld, war does come for Rome and Carthage, and Virgil, 26 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: writing well after the fact, would have known that, in fact, 27 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: the spurned love of Dido was virgil simple poetic solution 28 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 1: to the question of why these bloody, endless wars between 29 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: Rome and Carthage started in the first place. But there 30 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: are more complex reasons behind it, and that's sort we're 31 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: what we're going to be looking into today. How it 32 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: really came to be that Rome and Carthage fought three wars, 33 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: that Carthage ended up being completely destroyed, and that Rome 34 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: came pretty close to the brink in the process too. 35 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: But before we get into that at all, first we 36 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: want to take a look at Carthage a little bit. Obviously, 37 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: Rome was the victor in the clash between the two, 38 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: so consequently we know that city, we know the empire. Carthage, 39 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: on the other hand, we know less about it's thought 40 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: of as an extinct city. I think there's a little 41 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: tag and next all the entries in the Galileo database 42 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: that indicates that made me feel kind of sorry for it. 43 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: It was basically wiped off the face of the earth. 44 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:45,119 Speaker 1: So where was Carthage? Who words people? Well, they were Phoenicians, 45 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: a seafaring people. More specifically, Carthage was founded as a 46 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: colony by Phoenician people from the city of Tire now 47 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: in Lebanon an eight twelve b C. Yeah, and the 48 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 1: name means new city, the name Carthage. But considering it 49 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: was founded three sent trees before the Roman Republic, that's 50 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: all sort of relative, depends on how you look at things. 51 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: But the Phoenicians chose the spot which is now near 52 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: the city of Tunis in North Africa, because it was 53 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: just perfectly positioned. It had a secure harbor, It sat 54 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 1: on the east west trade route that brought Spanish silvered 55 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: attire and the north south line that connected Greece to 56 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: Italy and Sicily and down onto North Africa. So it 57 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 1: wasn't too long before the colony became not just a 58 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: merchant capital but a local leader to started producing items 59 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: itself and Initially this was luxury goods like terra cotta 60 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: figurines and carved ivory masks, jewelry. My favorite item here 61 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: decorated Ostrich eggs. It's funny to imagine there was ever 62 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: a time when you'd have an industry for that, but 63 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: Carthage was on it, and they were really known for 64 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: their beds and cushions and mattresses. Um. Those items from 65 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: Carthage were considered to be a special your ritzy, the 66 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: best of the best, and when the city of Old 67 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: Tire declined, Carthage really became the new Phoenician hub, especially 68 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: with its powerful fleet and merchant network. They even developed 69 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: their own dialect called Punic, which also became a bye 70 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: word for their culture. Yea, so we're going to toss 71 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: around the word Punic in this episode, obviously, because the 72 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: wars we're talking about are the Punic War. Still, though, 73 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: the city of Carthage, even though it was quite successful 74 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: and was expanding, didn't get big aspirations for imperialism until 75 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,119 Speaker 1: just before the First Punic War, and by that point 76 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: there was a bit of a problem with their neighbor 77 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 1: to the north, which was Rome by this point getting 78 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: more and more powerful both Rome and Carthage wanted to 79 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: expand to Sicily because Sicily was fertile, had rich soil. 80 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 1: It was just a good place to be in possession 81 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 1: of and the key. It was also the key to 82 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:00,120 Speaker 1: southern expansion for Rome and northern expansion for Carthage. So 83 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: it's not only a jewel in its own right, it's 84 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: it's a bridge to bigger things. But before we get 85 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 1: to war, it's important to know something about mercantile Carthage, 86 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: so we're gonna explain that a little bit. They were 87 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: rich and considered to have the best navy in the land, 88 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: but their population was very small, so consequently they relied 89 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 1: on mercenaries or silver spears, led by Punic officers. And 90 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 1: French historian Jules Michela puts it this way, the life 91 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 1: of an industrious merchant or a Carthaginian was too precious 92 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: to be risked, as long as it was possible to 93 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,440 Speaker 1: substitute for it that of a barbarian from Spain or Gaul. 94 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 1: Carthage new and could tell to a drachma what the 95 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: life of a man of each nation came to. So 96 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: they have a bought army, but they also weren't exactly 97 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 1: popular with their subject lands, and well, Rome sort of 98 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: came in and would make conquered territories at least willing 99 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 1: to submit to being Roman because money would eventually follow. 100 00:05:56,520 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: Carthage just milked as African provinces for all they or worth, 101 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: really draining them dry. So consequently, Carthage's subject lands were 102 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: definitely willing to look at any other offers that came 103 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: their way. So there's already a lot more at stake 104 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: before we get to this first war than just Sicily 105 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: and all of Sicily's bounty. Because of Rome's allies, Carthage's 106 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 1: mercenaries were outnumbered ten to one, and because It's subject 107 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 1: lands would surely rebel if the Romans ever landed in 108 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: North Africa, the fight couldn't come too close to home. 109 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,720 Speaker 1: Carthage didn't want it getting anywhere near their actual home 110 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: bad because the subject lands would turn on them definitely, 111 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 1: So this building tension between the two would be Sicilian 112 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: conquerors finally erupted in two sixty four BC, and fighting 113 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: went on for about a generation, with Rome winning for 114 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: most of that time. If you could call it that really, 115 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: I mean, Cecily was pretty much destroyed in the process, 116 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: but near the end a punic leader emerged, Hamilcar the Thunderbolt. 117 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: He's really good and brings things to draw on land, 118 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: leaving the ultimate result to be decided at sea. Yeah, 119 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 1: so we know already that the Phoenicians are famous for 120 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: their navy, so Carthage has obviously had the superior navy 121 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: over the years. But Rome has been shoring up what 122 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: it has over this decades long war by this point, 123 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,000 Speaker 1: building up their navy, and they ended up trumping Carthage 124 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: with a pretty nifty new invention. It sounds really simple, 125 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: but it did the trick. Basically, it was a plank 126 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: spike combo that you could hook the other ship onto 127 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: your own, latch two ships together, so your ship and 128 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: the enemy ship, and then have your men rush on 129 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: board to the enemy ship and fight hand to hand, 130 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: so basically turning a naval battle between two ships into 131 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: a battle between marines. And the war finally ended with 132 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 1: a naval battle in two forty one b C in 133 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: which Rome got sicily they won. After that they had 134 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 1: peace for twenty five years, but it was a really 135 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 1: uncomfortable piece. Both knew that war would come again at 136 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 1: some point. Yeah, but Carthage wasn't just sitting around brooding 137 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 1: thinking about future wars. Really, they were busy making money 138 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: in Spain, specifically from silver we mentioned that earlier, and 139 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: they were also raising a new generation of leaders for 140 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:24,520 Speaker 1: this eventual, unavoidable war, specifically the sons of the Thunderbolt, 141 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: Hamilcar's three sons, Hannibal, Hosdrubal and Mago or Mego. I couldn't. 142 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: He's the least famous of these sons. So pronunciation, no pronunciation, 143 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: keys of it for anyone knows right to us. So 144 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 1: now this new generation is in the picture. War does 145 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: come again, though this time the fight starts over a 146 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: Spanish city instead of Sicily, and it starts when Hannibal 147 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 1: seizes the Spanish city and to eighteen BC. Soon though, 148 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: he heads towards Italy because he knows that if the 149 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 1: Carthage Rome battle ever reaches North Africa, it's bad news 150 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: for Carthage. So basically what they knew before, what they 151 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: were trying to prevent before, he's trying to perfect again, 152 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: disaffected subject lands would rise up, presumably exactly. Plus if 153 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: he can get to Italy first, he's thinking maybe it 154 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: will have the same effect, and some of those Roman 155 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 1: allies will join up with him instead, or at least 156 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,720 Speaker 1: not fight with Rome, so we'll have fewer people to 157 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: deal with. So he crosses the Alps with his army 158 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 1: and his troop of elephants. That's probably what he's most 159 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:26,599 Speaker 1: famous for, and we're going to talk about elephants a 160 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,800 Speaker 1: little bit more later, but he basically starts crushing it 161 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: after that, one victory after the next, and his most 162 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: famous triumph came into six BC at the Battle of Kenny, 163 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: left fifty thou Romans dead, a huge loss for for Rome, 164 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,760 Speaker 1: and the Roman allies were starting to defect at this 165 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: point to just as Hannibal had hoped. And we kind 166 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: of come to a stalemate here though, or at least 167 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 1: a pause in the action, because Hannibal couldn't take Rome 168 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: itself alone. So in two oh seven NBC, he calls 169 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: on his brother Hasdrubal, who has been busy defending Spain 170 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,800 Speaker 1: all this time with only a handful of sort of 171 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: the last pick men, fifteen thousand of them are so 172 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: so we're gonna have two of these Thunderbolt brothers now 173 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:20,319 Speaker 1: coming into Italy and Rome down and out. After all 174 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: of these battles, So it seemed like a pretty serious 175 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: situation for Rome, and according to a Lee Leven article 176 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: in Military History, he said, these were without question the 177 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: darkest days in the history of the Roman Republic. Really, 178 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 1: they didn't know if they were gonna pull through with 179 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: this one. So to try to start to turn the 180 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: surround before they can even do that, to go head 181 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,319 Speaker 1: to head with those two brothers Rome votes and two 182 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:49,000 Speaker 1: new consoles who happened to hate each other, which isn't 183 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 1: such a good thing. You wouldn't think that would be 184 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: a very good to make. They were gayest Claudius Nero, 185 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 1: ancestor of the Emperor, and Marcus Livia's Salinator. Now, so 186 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,439 Speaker 1: and Tour will block Hasdrubal's crossing over the Alps from 187 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: Spain to Italy. That was his job, and Nero's job 188 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: was to block Hannibal to the south. So the tide 189 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: turns in Roman favor when Hasdrubal crosses the Alps too 190 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: quickly and finds himself ahead of his brother, So he 191 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: tries to send off a message that actually ends up 192 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: in Nero's hands instead. Yeah, but Nero thinks that it 193 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,559 Speaker 1: might be a trick, you know, these tricky people from Carthage, 194 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: and he thinks about it long and hard, looks at 195 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: the messengers. They do look tired, they look kind of dirty. 196 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 1: He decides that maybe it's legit, or at least he's 197 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: just got to hope it is, and he goes with it. 198 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: He decides to act, while Hannibal is is clueless about 199 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: his brother's whereabouts. So Nero decides to take a small 200 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: group of his guys sort of the elite legions from 201 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 1: his forty thousand general group, and join up with Salinator 202 00:11:55,920 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: to face Hasdrubal with combined consular forces. But for Hannibal 203 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:05,559 Speaker 1: realizes what's going on, and he doesn't want to attract notice. 204 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 1: He doesn't want Hasdrubal to realize that suddenly there are 205 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: two consular forces to go up again. So Nero and 206 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: his men slip into Salinator's camp at night, even just 207 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: slipping into their tents. They're not even pitching their own tents. 208 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: But Hostruble is sharp and he realizes that something is 209 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: going on, that there are suddenly extra Romans in that camp, 210 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: and he notices unshaven men, guys with dirty armor, people 211 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: who look like they've been traveling and he gives them 212 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: the slip and heads to cross the Metaurus River because 213 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: he doesn't know what's going on, if his brother Hannibal 214 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: has been defeated and the consular armies have joined forces, 215 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 1: or if some other confusion has happened. So he's planning 216 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: if he can just get across that river, he'll be 217 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 1: safe on the other side and he can send out 218 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: new messengers and try to figure out what on Earth 219 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 1: Earth is going on. Unfortunately for him, though, the river 220 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: is flooded, and so when Nero and Salinator show up 221 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: to fight, he's in a really tight spot, especially since 222 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: his mercenaries from Gall are drunk. That's one of the 223 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,840 Speaker 1: problems with mercenaries, especially uh. These guys had not been 224 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: working with him for very long, so they hadn't gotten 225 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: used to. I guess his regimen, but don't get drunk. 226 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: I would think that would be an obvious introductory instruction. 227 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: But has your ball makes do? He lines up those 228 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: unruly galls on his left on high ground that's too 229 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:41,479 Speaker 1: steep to attack. So their purpose was basically to distract 230 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: the Romans because they could potentially charge downhill, but also 231 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: to be too far off to be obviously drunk, so 232 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: conceal their condition a little bit. In the center. Meanwhile, 233 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: he lines up his dependable ligurians, who are you know, guys, 234 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: guy so he can count on, and lines them up 235 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:07,360 Speaker 1: with his ten surviving elephants, which ten elephants not a 236 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: whole lot to work with. But elephants were obviously pretty 237 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: scary to go up against. And I think we've talked 238 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:19,600 Speaker 1: about them before in the um king porous episode. And um, 239 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 1: the crucial thing about them here is that horses who 240 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 1: hadn't seen elephants before, we're just absolutely terrified of them. 241 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: They wouldn't go near them, so it could really decimate 242 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: a cavalry pretty easily, and then just frightened soldiers clearly. 243 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: And um, finally, so we've covered the left and the center. 244 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: On the right has your bal stations himself, along with 245 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: his Spanish and his African veterans, and these are the 246 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 1: best of the best, his his guys. He can count 247 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: on his number one soldiers. And the plan is to 248 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: use this swing of the army to push forward and 249 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 1: cut around the Romans. Sounds like a pretty comp x 250 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: plan and it does work. Initially, the right pushes ahead, 251 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: the center holds, and the galls are scary enough up 252 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 1: on that hill to keep the Romans that are right 253 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: under the command of Nero stalling, and they miss the action. Finally, 254 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: though Nero does catch on, he realizes that the battle 255 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: is to his left, and so he decides to abandon 256 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: his position, take half a legion with him, and fight 257 00:15:22,320 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 1: on Salinator side. Carthage gets confused at this point. They're 258 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: like breaking apart. Uh, They're going in different directions. The 259 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: battle is lost. Yeah, So, knowing the jig is up, 260 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: Hasdrubal charges into the line. He wants to die a 261 00:15:36,840 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: warrior's death. He's killed, and he's beheaded, even though he 262 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: and his brother had been pretty careful about properly burying 263 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: Roman generals Roman consuls. He's beheaded, and the first thing 264 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: Hannibal sees of his brother in ten years is when 265 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: Hasdrubal's head is thrown into his camp. So after that defeat, 266 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: After the defeat of Hasdrubal, Hannibal's mystique was sort of compromised, 267 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: and he fought on for a few more years in 268 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: southern Italy, but there wasn't that supreme threat to Rome anymore, 269 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: and by two O one b C, the Second Punic 270 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: War was over and Carthage was yet again a loser. 271 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: So Carthage seemed pretty much out for the count at 272 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: this point. Especially looking at at retrospectively, we know where 273 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: Rome is going what lies in Rome's future here. But 274 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: even though Carthage is military and political cloudwork gone, the 275 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: city started to gradually over the decades make a comeback 276 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: in trade and and chow some promise. Again. The problem 277 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: here is that Rome still holds a grudge though, and 278 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: some Romans in particular wanted to see Carthage destroyed. Senator 279 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 1: Cato the Elder takes two ending speeches with a quick quote, 280 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,239 Speaker 1: Carthage must be destroyed. So Rome actually starts to intentionally 281 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: provoke Carthage, and finally they make this kind of ridiculo 282 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: list demand that Carthage actually relocate inland, and after that 283 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: war is declared in one BC. Because obviously a seafaring 284 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 1: merchant town their their whole livelihood depends on their location, 285 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't even make sense. So, like you mentioned, war 286 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: starts in one nine b C and after the siege 287 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: of Carthage goes on for some years, but by the 288 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: spring of one b C the Roman army, which at 289 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 1: this point is under the commander Scipio Amelianas, gets through 290 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: the city's defenses and launches the last assault on beer Sell, 291 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:41,479 Speaker 1: which was the citadel of Carthage and also it's religious center, 292 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: center of government, really the heart of the city. And 293 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 1: it's bloody work from there. And um, the accounts we have, 294 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: which are Greek and Latin accounts, so you know, we 295 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: don't get here. Carthages side of the story are pretty horrendous. 296 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 1: There are apparently so many dead in Carthage that Scipio 297 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 1: made some of his soldiers responsible just for clearing the 298 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: streets of body so that more troops could move through 299 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: and they wouldn't be slowed down. But it took six 300 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: days and six nights, even even with all of that bloodshed, 301 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: and on the seventh day, city elders brought all of 302 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,920 Speaker 1: branches down from the temple from the highest point of 303 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: the beer c citadel. Sipio spared them and the fifty 304 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 1: thousand who surrendered along with them, but some in Carthage 305 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: did stay and fight to the death. But the city 306 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: wasn't just defeated, it was destroyed. After that, Scipio had 307 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 1: his men tear down the city walls and ramparts. They 308 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:39,639 Speaker 1: burned houses and buildings, They looted and pillaged, they sold 309 00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: off citizens into slavery. But there's one thing they didn't do. 310 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,119 Speaker 1: They didn't actually plow the earth with salt. That is 311 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 1: a myth right there. It is because Rome had just 312 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 1: conquered this territory which did have a lot of agricultural 313 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 1: action going on, and why would you want to intentionally 314 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 1: destroy all of that. One thing that the Romans couldn't 315 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: just destroy out of hand, but eventually also fell fell 316 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: in the fall of Carthage was the language, the Punic language. 317 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: It was wiped out over time, and it was kind 318 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 1: of this utter destruction was kind of a message from 319 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: Rome that we don't mess around. According to an article 320 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: in History Today by Michael Brett, here's what he had 321 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,040 Speaker 1: to say, the destruction of Carthage now stood as a 322 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: bloody memorial to the cost of resistance to Rome in 323 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: a suitably apocalyptic fanfare for Rome's coming of age as 324 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: a new world power. So intense it does sound kind 325 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: of apocalyptic a few if you think about clearing the 326 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: bodies from the streets, and and the fire that burned 327 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:45,360 Speaker 1: the city and just the general destruction and that it's 328 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 1: just gone. These people's lives or livelihood everything. Yeah. Well, 329 00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,959 Speaker 1: although Carthage did bounce back eventually as a distinctly Roman 330 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: capital of North Africa. It was a favorite city of 331 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: the emperors, but after it's captured by the Arabs in 332 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: six a d. It was abandoned and eventually eclipsed by Tunis, 333 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:09,680 Speaker 1: which is right next door. I don't know if we've 334 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: already mentioned this, but Carthage is a kind of upscale 335 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: residential suburb now of Tunas, So the landscape has changed 336 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 1: a little bit, and the meaning of the word punic 337 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 1: has also come to mean something different now it means quote, 338 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: faithless or treacherous, parting to Marion Webster. According to Marion Webster, 339 00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 1: and just as an example of Carthage's bad reputation, it's 340 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: perhaps most famously associated with the rumor that they'd sacrifice 341 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,640 Speaker 1: their children instead of the standard goat or lamb sacrifice, 342 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: and there's actually been some recent anthropological research into that claim. 343 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: According to the journal Archaeology, a team from the University 344 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: of Pittsburgh led by Jeffrey Schwartz studied the cremated remains 345 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:50,400 Speaker 1: of five hundred forty children from three hundred forty eight 346 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 1: burial urns which were excavated in a cemetery outside Carthage's 347 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: main burial ground, and they determined that half were prenatal 348 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: or couldn't have survived long and after birth and therefore 349 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 1: couldn't have been sacrificed. So it looks like this is 350 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 1: just a myth. And the vast majority of the others 351 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: were really quite young, most of them under the age 352 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: of one, but almost all of them under the age 353 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: of five or six, which was the age you could 354 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: expect to graduate to the main cemetery, and this weren't 355 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,719 Speaker 1: unusual mortality rates for the population at the time. And 356 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 1: another theory that sort of came out of that study 357 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:29,399 Speaker 1: was that some civilizations didn't really regard babies or really 358 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 1: young children as individuals like they would for adults or 359 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: older children, and therefore, if you if you didn't regard 360 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,919 Speaker 1: something as an individual, it might not be worthy of 361 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: a sacrifice. So sort of spinning that rumor about Carthage 362 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,760 Speaker 1: on its head. It's also interesting because there are these 363 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: three great destructive wars, how often the story of Carthage 364 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: came up right after World War two, when the world 365 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: had obviously just gone through a horribly destructive ordeal. And 366 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: there's one specific quote from Bear tilt Breck that you 367 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 1: might see. He used it to kind of frightened fellow 368 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: Germans out of remilitarization. And here's what he had to say. 369 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 1: Great Carthage drove three wars. After the first one, it 370 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: was still powerful. After the second, it was still inhabitable. 371 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: After the third one, it was no longer possible to 372 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: find her. So a serious end for kind of a 373 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,960 Speaker 1: serious podcast when whenever we do these battle episodes they 374 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: tend to be downers. Yeah, they are kind of downers. 375 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. I guess um. Every now and then 376 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,400 Speaker 1: you have an uplifting connection for like marathon for instance, 377 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: or something. But yeah, battle it's not pretty. No, they're 378 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 1: never prettier fun, but they always give us good insight 379 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,680 Speaker 1: into different cultures and why they do what they do, 380 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: I think. But if anyone has anything else to add 381 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,920 Speaker 1: to the story, or suggestions for other battles that you 382 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,600 Speaker 1: would like covered, or wars in fact, lost cities, any 383 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: of those types of stories, please write us Where History 384 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: Podcast at how stuff Works dot com or you can 385 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: look us up on Twitter at Myston History or on Facebook. 386 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: And if you want to learn a little bit more 387 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 1: about Nero, as in the ancestor of the narrow we 388 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,479 Speaker 1: talked about today, we have an article called did Emperor 389 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: Nero play the fiddle while Rome Burns? So you can 390 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: find out the answer to that question by searching for 391 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: Nero on our home page at www dot how stuff 392 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: works dot com. Be sure to check out our new 393 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how Stuff Work 394 00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:42,119 Speaker 1: staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing possibilities 395 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:45,680 Speaker 1: of tomorrow. The How Stuff Works iPhone app has a rise. 396 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: Download it today on iTunes.