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Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of My

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, welcome back to another episode of the

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Speaker 1: Book of Joe Podcast. You've come to the right place

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Speaker 1: if you want to learn a little bit about baseball leadership, teamwork,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know, maybe some rock and roll too.

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Speaker 1: This is Tom Berducci and I'm here with my good

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Speaker 1: buddy Joe Madden and Joe, I'm super excited about our

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Speaker 1: guest today. I think he's the best hitting coach in

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Speaker 1: the business, Kevin Long, Philadelphia, Phillies. Yeah. I've been around

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Speaker 1: Kevin for actually a long time, and I'm right it

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Speaker 1: now because Okay Long, I've actually scott at you in

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Speaker 1: nine when you're done at you have a I think

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Speaker 1: we've talked about this and uh I looked it up.

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Speaker 1: I have to be honest, just to get all the

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Speaker 1: correct teammates and Senter was there, j T was there,

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Speaker 1: Hoffey was there, Damon may Shore was there, Ericson who

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Speaker 1: I was really wanted to draft badly too, and of

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Speaker 1: course Aree Kindle and Jimmy Wing. Uh. I used to

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Speaker 1: wear out a path between my house up here and

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Speaker 1: Masa down Interstate. Tend to your ballpark down there and

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Speaker 1: this guy could hit. Uh, Tommy, this guy could hit.

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Speaker 1: I had him on my draft list. We never ended

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Speaker 1: up with Kansas City, I believe. But this goes way

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Speaker 1: back to the eighties and and I've watched his abilities

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Speaker 1: as a hitting coach from the other dugout. He was

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Speaker 1: with my buddy Davey Martinez winning World Series. Before that,

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Speaker 1: he beat us up with the Mets when Danny Murphy

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Speaker 1: was just unbelievable for four games against the Cubs. Anyway, Keeth,

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Speaker 1: thanks for coming on. It's great to have you on.

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Speaker 1: And I feel the same way. I really have a

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Speaker 1: lot of respect for you to do in your in

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Speaker 1: your job, and you're a wonderful guy on top of that. Well,

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Speaker 1: I appreciate it and I'm excited to talk a little

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Speaker 1: shot today. And those are those are fond memories going

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Speaker 1: back to U of A days and eight eighty nine.

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Speaker 1: Bunch of good dudes I played with you named a

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Speaker 1: bunch of them. We talk all the time. Just talked

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Speaker 1: to Hoffey. Gonna see Scott ericson shortly. I'll talk to

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Speaker 1: j T Know all the time. Demon May sure of

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Speaker 1: course was on that team. Off to him quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: But uh, I'm excited for today and excited to actually

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Speaker 1: talk with you guys and see what's up. Well, Kevin,

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Speaker 1: we have to point this out. Joe loved you so

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Speaker 1: much that you didn't get drafted until the thirty first

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Speaker 1: round by the Royals. I didn't have that much shoes

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Speaker 1: back then, babe, I didn't have that much choice. Hey, Tom,

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Speaker 1: I was going to bring that up, but I let

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Speaker 1: that one go. But you know what, seven you just

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Speaker 1: kind of grind and get through eight b s and

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Speaker 1: play baseball as you can, and thirty first round was

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Speaker 1: probably about right in all respect. You know, I think

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Speaker 1: that's that's that's fine and fair. I think I had

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Speaker 1: been for the thirties run Actually so well, Kevin. I'm

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Speaker 1: always interested in and origin stories and how guys who

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Speaker 1: are at the top of their business get there. And

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Speaker 1: for you, obviously, you get drafted by Kansas City, played

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Speaker 1: eight years in the minor leagues to seventy three hitter.

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Speaker 1: But there was a point I think it was and

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Speaker 1: you can tell the story. Um, when it was the

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Speaker 1: end of the road for you as a player and

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Speaker 1: you become a coach with the Wilmington Blue Rocks. You're

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Speaker 1: thirty years old. Tell me about that transition, because I

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Speaker 1: know no player was to hear that you're done, you

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Speaker 1: can't play anymore. No, and and that was my choice.

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Speaker 1: I was. I was gonna make the team, the Omaha

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Speaker 1: Royals team out of spring training. There was three days left,

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Speaker 1: and I sat down with my wife and I said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, I think I'm just wasting time right now.

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Speaker 1: I said, I'm twenty nine, and um, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: just holding a job and I think I might have

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Speaker 1: more value as a coach. She said, ah, you promised

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Speaker 1: me you would get coaching. And I said, I really

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Speaker 1: have a strong passion for this. I think this is

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Speaker 1: my calling, um. And she said what makes you think that?

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Speaker 1: And I said, well, I just feel like I have

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Speaker 1: a lot to offer, um, guys that are maybe like

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Speaker 1: in my situation where if I felt like if I

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Speaker 1: was coached up a little bit more or um, you know,

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Speaker 1: just a little bit of tricks and trades here and there,

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Speaker 1: that maybe I could have made it to the big leagues.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, I walked into our farm director's office. His

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Speaker 1: name was Bob Hagman. I said, Bob, I've made a decision.

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Speaker 1: I'd like to retire from the playing field. And I'd

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Speaker 1: like to start coaching. He said, well, it just so

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Speaker 1: happens that our guys are in having a meeting right now.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go in there and see what they think.

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Speaker 1: So he went in there. Five minutes later he came back.

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Speaker 1: He said, all right, you'll start coaching tomorrow, we'll start

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Speaker 1: to extended spring. UM. So I started an extended spring, UM,

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Speaker 1: and that was a lot of fun. I was still playing.

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Speaker 1: I was actually playing with a lot of the guys,

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Speaker 1: and and coaching as well. I would play in all

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Speaker 1: the inner squads and and I was more like a

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Speaker 1: player coach. And then one day Bob Hagman says, at

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Speaker 1: your first time, I said, what would that be? He says, well,

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Speaker 1: there's a kid in Wilmington, Delaware, and we want you

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Speaker 1: to teach him how to switch it. I said, we're

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Speaker 1: a month into the season. I said, who is this kid?

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Speaker 1: And why would we do this during the middle of

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Speaker 1: the season. He said, well, we've got a lot of

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Speaker 1: people that think that, Um, you know, we should start

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Speaker 1: that process now and and start developing him as a

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Speaker 1: switch hitter. Well, the guy's name was Carlos beltron Um,

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Speaker 1: and UM I went into Wilmington's UM didn't know Carlos

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Speaker 1: from a man on the moon, and we started the

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Speaker 1: process of which which hit, which was left handed. So

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Speaker 1: we'd get to the field at ten in the morning, UM,

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Speaker 1: and we'd start with the left handed swing, and then

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Speaker 1: we'd go to lunch together, and then we come back

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Speaker 1: and we hit some more left handed, and then the

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Speaker 1: rest of the day he did right handed, and then

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day when the game was over,

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Speaker 1: we do one more session left handed, and we did

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Speaker 1: that for about sixty days, UM, and then he took

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Speaker 1: it into the game and as they say, the rest

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Speaker 1: is history. It was good for him and was good

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Speaker 1: for me because it taught me basically how to build

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Speaker 1: the swing. So we've basically built the left hand spring

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Speaker 1: from scratch. Becus. I was just going to say, because

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Speaker 1: you've never done that before night you never I mean,

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Speaker 1: they give you this assignment and you say, of course

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Speaker 1: I can do this, and you get there and you think,

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Speaker 1: what am I gonna do? But I have been in

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Speaker 1: situations like that with Devon White years ago, also when

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Speaker 1: he was struggling in the major league level. Although I

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Speaker 1: think I had a year or two under my belt

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Speaker 1: as a hitting coach, but you left your own devices.

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Speaker 1: And that's the beauty of it. I wrote down started

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Speaker 1: with extended spring. Um, that's the part that I love.

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Speaker 1: I love the fact that you've earned the right to

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Speaker 1: be where you're at. Plus all the cache, all the

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Speaker 1: different methods, thoughts, problems you've you've been confronted with as

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Speaker 1: you've moved up. You have to use your own imagination

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Speaker 1: in regards to get your point across. Get this guy

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Speaker 1: to understand what you're talking about, and you have to

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Speaker 1: read your pupil. What's he capable of hearing? What's he

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Speaker 1: capable of implementing? Some guys retain well, some guys do not.

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Speaker 1: So UM, I think that's pretty cool because I totally

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Speaker 1: get that. And from that one experience, I mean, that

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Speaker 1: had to give you a lot of confidence moving forward. Yes,

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Speaker 1: because at that point I knew what I was doing

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Speaker 1: was because he went straight into competition left handed and

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Speaker 1: the first night he hit a home run left handed

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Speaker 1: like and it was it was just it was electric

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Speaker 1: the things that this guy could do and still of

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Speaker 1: hitting UM left handed when you hadn't even done it

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Speaker 1: ever in your life. It was remarkable. And spoke to

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Speaker 1: his talent um you know as well. But you know

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Speaker 1: you're right, Joe. You go into this year, you're going

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Speaker 1: in naked. You don't know really you know where to start. Um.

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Speaker 1: But I called on my my roommate j T. Snow,

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Speaker 1: who was uh playing Barry Bonds, and I said, is

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Speaker 1: there any way you can send me video Barry Bonds?

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Speaker 1: And I ideus and I just broke down Barry swing.

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Speaker 1: And then I got with my biomechanic teacher at the

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Speaker 1: University of Arizona and said, just break down you know

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Speaker 1: the mechanics of his swing, um, you know, from the

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Speaker 1: physical standpoint um. And he did that. Now I started teaching,

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Speaker 1: and then when I started teaching, I started teaching ground

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Speaker 1: up UM. And I was teaching the lower half of

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Speaker 1: the swing way before other people got involved with that.

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Speaker 1: You look at the work from the ground up, and

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Speaker 1: you look at results and work backwards. And that's what

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Speaker 1: I've always I maybe you probably worked with Rick down right,

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Speaker 1: worked with Rie you know that was that was Rick Lane.

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Speaker 1: You know, you work from the ground up and you

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Speaker 1: look at results and works work backwards. And I've always

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Speaker 1: believed that to be true. And that's what people don't

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Speaker 1: understand when they look at a complete or finished major

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Speaker 1: League baseball player. While you think it's always been like that,

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Speaker 1: of course it's not been like that, and all the

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Speaker 1: different things that the building blocks they get into that

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Speaker 1: particular point. For me, everything everything in our game starts

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Speaker 1: with defeat. Everything. I don't care every hitting, if you're pitching,

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Speaker 1: if you're playing defense, we're throwing about whatever it might be.

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Speaker 1: It really starts with good feet. And when you established

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Speaker 1: good feet, the rest as possible it is. It's just

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Speaker 1: it's the base of the fountain. And when you have

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Speaker 1: that um, you can start to build a swing. You

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Speaker 1: can start to build um the mechanics of a good

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Speaker 1: a good infield or a good outfielder. But I totally

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Speaker 1: agree with that. Well, just so our listeners can get

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Speaker 1: a better sense of how accomplished Kevin is um point

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Speaker 1: out he spent ten years coaching and managing in the

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Speaker 1: minor leagues before he got a shot in the major leagues.

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Speaker 1: That was with the Yankees, and I believe it was

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Speaker 1: two thousand seven, and all they did that year was

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Speaker 1: they let the league major leagues and runs scored and

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Speaker 1: the most of the Yankees franchise history since nineteen thirty seven.

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Speaker 1: So he goes from the Yankees after the fourteen season,

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Speaker 1: to the Mets, after the Mets to the Nationals, and

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Speaker 1: from the Nationals to the Phillies, and oh, by the way,

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Speaker 1: each of those stops goes to the World Series. Joe.

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Speaker 1: He is the only coach in Major League history to

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Speaker 1: take four teams to the World Series. I think the

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Speaker 1: only player to go to the World Series with four

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Speaker 1: teams is Lonnie Smith Kevin Long. That's not by accident

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Speaker 1: that you get to the World Series four times with

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Speaker 1: four different teams, and let it just adds them. As

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Speaker 1: a hitting coach, that's really difficult. I mean, right now,

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Speaker 1: hitting coaches are getting fired on an annual basis um

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Speaker 1: and and it's just all the blame seems to always

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Speaker 1: be laid at the feet of either the pitching coach

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Speaker 1: of the hitting coach. Um, you're a psychologist, this guy's

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Speaker 1: a psychologist. On a daily basis. I mean, really, when

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Speaker 1: a guy struggling, like a really accomplished it is struggling.

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Speaker 1: Even you can talk about the guys that are not

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Speaker 1: accomplished it, but the ones that are when they get

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Speaker 1: into a tough streak, man, it's hard because that's you

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Speaker 1: have to almost almost speak with them post every at bat.

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Speaker 1: I mean they get to that particular point. So it

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Speaker 1: goes well beyond the mechanics of hitting the physical side

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Speaker 1: of this thing. For me, as the seasons in progress,

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Speaker 1: it becomes increasing the more mental, the mental mechanics of

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Speaker 1: what's going on, and you have to be able to

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Speaker 1: be kind of like a psychiatrist with these guys on

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Speaker 1: a daily basis. Um. You know, you know yet bat

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Speaker 1: where they at bats over the hitter find you at

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Speaker 1: the rail and you stand at the rail and you

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Speaker 1: talk about what has just happened. I mean talk about

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Speaker 1: that too. People don't understand I mean the psychology, but

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Speaker 1: you do. Also, Yeah, there's a lot more of the

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Speaker 1: psychology than people think. Um, you're really trying to keep

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Speaker 1: them in a good headspace because there's so much doubt

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Speaker 1: in these guys minds. It's such a difficult thing to do. Um,

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Speaker 1: and they're gonna struggle. The best in the business m

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Speaker 1: v PS two times, three times, four time. M v ps.

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Speaker 1: I've seen him go through strings where you couldn't even fathom.

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Speaker 1: Um myself, Jeter go through an over thirty I've seen

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Speaker 1: a rod where um, you know, he didn't know if

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Speaker 1: he was gonna be perform and and go out there

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Speaker 1: and and be a rod. Um. Bryce Harper go through

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Speaker 1: struggles that um, you know, they just battled. They So

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Speaker 1: my job is to make sure that they're in a

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Speaker 1: good headspace. And how you do that and how you

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Speaker 1: go about it, well, you've got to know the individual.

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Speaker 1: You've got to know what makes them tick. Um. It

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Speaker 1: may be something to do with her family. It. Maybe

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Speaker 1: um we go have lunch it. Maybe we grind in

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Speaker 1: the cage and maybe we get the field early. Um

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Speaker 1: it maybe we look over from down and just see

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Speaker 1: if you know, um, we can find something there. Are

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Speaker 1: they not hitting the fastball right now? Are they not

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Speaker 1: catching up the stuff at the top of his zone? Um?

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Speaker 1: Do we need to work on breaking ball stuff? There's

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Speaker 1: just so much that goes into it. And I think

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Speaker 1: the key, uh is to stay positive number one, and

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Speaker 1: then understand the individual. If you understand the individual and

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Speaker 1: you understand what makes them tick, um, that's half the battle. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it's not easy. There's days where you know, I

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Speaker 1: have some self doubt on what I'm doing because it's

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Speaker 1: it's very intricate and there's a lot of things, UM,

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Speaker 1: that are involved. It could be something off the field.

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Speaker 1: It could be UM something pisces them off with their teammates.

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Speaker 1: It could be the managing And you know, my job

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Speaker 1: is to make sure UM that I'm getting the best

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Speaker 1: version of that athlete I can on a daily basis,

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Speaker 1: and that's that's what I strive to do. But we're

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Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break, and when we get back,

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Speaker 1: I want to take you inside the batting cage with

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Speaker 1: Kevin Long. There's so much information and honestly, gadgets available

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Speaker 1: to a major league hit her these days. Let's get

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Speaker 1: into the cage next with Kevin Long. Welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the Book of Joe podcast. Our guest today Kevin Long,

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Speaker 1: hitting coach for the Philadelphia Phillies. And Kevin, I had

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Speaker 1: a fascinating conversation with you at the World Series about

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Speaker 1: some of the work you do in the cage. And

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Speaker 1: we all know there's so much information that's out there.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm lucky enough to go around different camps

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Speaker 1: and spring training and I see these caves and forest

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Speaker 1: plates and you walk in and to some hitting cages

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Speaker 1: and it looked like computer labs. Uh, And that's not

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Speaker 1: even speaking about all the different kinds of gadgets that

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Speaker 1: are available for guys to swing or different kind of

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Speaker 1: baseballs to hit at, and machinery I pitches and all

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Speaker 1: this stuff. So give me a sense if I'm a

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia Philly hit or I'm working with you in the cage,

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Speaker 1: where are the things you like? What have you found

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Speaker 1: works in terms of what's out there? What doesn't work well.

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Speaker 1: I've tried all the new stuff. I've tried all the

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Speaker 1: k best stuff. I've tried all the gadgets and pretty

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Speaker 1: much everything underneath um the moon, And what I found

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Speaker 1: out is um A t clips the machines just basically

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Speaker 1: the old school stuff works best for me. UM. I

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Speaker 1: love UM all the analytics. I love information. I'll dissect

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Speaker 1: and dig deep into um, you know, information and trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out ways. And basically I'm trying to paint

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Speaker 1: a picture for myself and the player on why things

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Speaker 1: are happening or why things aren't happening. Uh. And then

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Speaker 1: we're old fashioned. We're just gonna get in the cage

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Speaker 1: and and we're gonna grind it out. We're gonna come

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Speaker 1: up with drills um um and sequences and things that

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Speaker 1: we do that, are going to help that individual overcome

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Speaker 1: some obstacles. Um. We you know we have some bands

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Speaker 1: in there, we'll do some bandwork. Um, we're all. I'll

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Speaker 1: um put a belt around them. And basically what I'm

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Speaker 1: doing is just using the ground and keeping them into

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Speaker 1: the ground. And usually what happens when I do that

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Speaker 1: is they spread out and they get their base right, um,

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Speaker 1: and they become stronger into their lower half and their

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Speaker 1: legs without me even saying anything. I've had a net

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Speaker 1: drill that I've for years and I continue to do

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Speaker 1: that with almost Ryce Harper does it every day. UM.

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Speaker 1: But you know certain guys um gravitate towards certain drills. Um.

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Speaker 1: And and you know, hey, Kevin, let me stop you

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Speaker 1: right there, because I remember you at that net drill

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Speaker 1: going back to Robbie Cano. It's the first time I

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Speaker 1: remember that, and he wound up pulling the baseball with

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Speaker 1: power like nobody thought he had. So why don't describe

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Speaker 1: to our folks what you do with that net? You

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Speaker 1: take one of those protective nets and run it across

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Speaker 1: the center line of the plate. Correct. Yeah, So what

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Speaker 1: I'll do is I'll get them one bat length Basically

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Speaker 1: the knob of the bat. Um. You can put it

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Speaker 1: on their belly button and wherever the barrel ends up,

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Speaker 1: that's how close to the net they're gonna be. UM.

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Speaker 1: And I'll go out in front and I'll do front

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Speaker 1: flips um and basically I'm just gonna split the distance

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Speaker 1: between their body um and the net. UM. And what

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Speaker 1: it does is it gets them really really tight um

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Speaker 1: to their core. They have to use their lower half.

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Speaker 1: They can't um. They can't get away from their core,

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Speaker 1: they can't um. And what it does is it it

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Speaker 1: stops forward movement as well, so they can't rush out

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Speaker 1: to the baseball because they'll get jammed. UM. And Robinson's case, um,

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Speaker 1: it got his direction right, It got him tight. It

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Speaker 1: slowed down his forward movement, so it allowed him to

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Speaker 1: get two pitches that were, you know, closer to his

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Speaker 1: body um and he and basically I didn't have to

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Speaker 1: say much. I just did the drill um and he

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Speaker 1: got the field. And then in the game he would

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Speaker 1: he would ask me to say, you know, well, why

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Speaker 1: did I hit an opposite field home run? All we

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Speaker 1: did today was work on pulling the ball. I said.

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Speaker 1: What we did was we got your swing tight and

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Speaker 1: he started to use your corn, start to use your

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Speaker 1: legs better. Um, So what happened in this case again

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Speaker 1: is Robinson would have hit a home round and said, well,

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Speaker 1: we gotta do the net draw again today, when in

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Speaker 1: every single day, and you know, I told himself, Robbert,

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Speaker 1: you got to get to the field at two o'clock

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Speaker 1: to do this because I got all the other guys

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Speaker 1: showing up doing their normal routines at three, and he

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Speaker 1: had no problem showing up at two. Is okay, whatever

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Speaker 1: time you tell me to be there, to be there,

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Speaker 1: but I want to do the net drill. Aren't you

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Speaker 1: describing Barry bonds of swing? Also? I mean that's everything

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Speaker 1: you're saying right there, I'm saying bonds. I mean nobody

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Speaker 1: was nobody was shorter, no longer to the ball than

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Speaker 1: than him. And it's almost like he didn't have anything

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Speaker 1: happened behind him. And it's almost like I started here,

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, the pass out front and

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Speaker 1: the ball is going far. There's no way you could

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Speaker 1: beat him inside with any kind of velocity. It was

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Speaker 1: the shortest, quickest, strongest swing I saw him. I actually

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Speaker 1: saw him play at Arizona State right before you were

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Speaker 1: there at you have a and just watched how he

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Speaker 1: morphed into what he did eventually. But um, he is

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Speaker 1: the poster child for me for short swing and we're

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Speaker 1: choking up and we're hitting balls out of sight obviously,

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Speaker 1: but everything you're talking about, I would even imagine. I

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Speaker 1: don't even know if you know if Bonds did that

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Speaker 1: kind of a drill, but it almost seems like that

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Speaker 1: kind of a drill had an impact on on the

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Speaker 1: Barry Bonds. Yeah. And you know, Joe, when I started

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Speaker 1: uh and I got into it again, I leaned on JT.

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Speaker 1: Snow and who guy that I wanted, you know, his

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Speaker 1: swing and I wanted to mimic one. It was Barry Bonds.

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Speaker 1: The sorts most compact explosives I've ever seen. For a

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Speaker 1: guy to command the strikes on the way he did,

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Speaker 1: it was incredible. This guy was on top of the

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Speaker 1: dish and you could not be how do you do that? Well,

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Speaker 1: it's it's the net drill in essence, that's exactly what

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Speaker 1: very swing want. It was everything tight to the core.

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Speaker 1: I can remember story Trevor Hoffman goes, I'm working on

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Speaker 1: the cutter this offseason, and I want to work on

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Speaker 1: this cutter and I'm gonna bust it out Barry Bonds.

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Speaker 1: I said, okay, I'm thinking myself, good luck, pal. He

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Speaker 1: works the cutter all off season and he's got his

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Speaker 1: first situation of face Barrie and it's it's crucial. Um.

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Speaker 1: I think that's first and second padres are up by two. Um,

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Speaker 1: he's facing Bonds. Well, he busts out this cutter and

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Speaker 1: Bonds sits it into the water. Um. And I said, boy,

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Speaker 1: So I called Trevor a couple of days. I gave

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Speaker 1: him a couple of days. I said, how did that

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Speaker 1: cutter work? Buddies? Unbelievable? Well, what you're talking about. Also,

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Speaker 1: what I love is you you set up field drills

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Speaker 1: because you want to stay away from a lot of

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Speaker 1: mechanical conversation. But if you could put a guy in

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Speaker 1: a position to feel exactly what you're talking about the

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Speaker 1: movie trying to create and then he says, I feel

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Speaker 1: it as you're watching it and saying that's right now,

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Speaker 1: we've got something. The moment to me an athlete, we're

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Speaker 1: talking about hitters right now, I could tell you that

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Speaker 1: they feel it. That's the moment that they know it

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Speaker 1: while you're actually and observing that it is the correct move.

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Speaker 1: So that really resonates with me because I wasn't hitting

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Speaker 1: coach for a bit and the minor leagues with the

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Speaker 1: Angels too, and I was big on field drills because

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Speaker 1: anytime you could get your point across mechanically without having

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Speaker 1: to talk about mechanics, you're really getting something done. I

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Speaker 1: agree with that, and I'll come up with drills um

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Speaker 1: and do stuff with guys and I'm not even telling

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Speaker 1: them why I'm doing it. I just want them to

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Speaker 1: feel it, and that's what they'll say, Oh, I feel that.

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Speaker 1: I feel how tight I like not swinging hard and

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Speaker 1: the ball is jumping off my bat um and I

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Speaker 1: feel like I'm I'm going to get the ball as

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Speaker 1: much as I was before. And so I'll come up

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Speaker 1: with drills and and things um in the cage um

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Speaker 1: out on the field. That kind of gives them that feel.

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Speaker 1: And if I can get the feel and get them to,

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Speaker 1: you know, tell me, yeah, that's it. I feel that,

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Speaker 1: then then we're on the right path. Agree with that. Man,

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Speaker 1: that's great stuff. And obviously any great hitting coach knows

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Speaker 1: there's no cookie cutter method. You're dealing with individuals, human

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Speaker 1: beings and Kevin, I know you're great about that. So

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Speaker 1: if I can, I want to do a rapid fire

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Speaker 1: here going through some of the great hitters that you've

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Speaker 1: worked with, because they are different, they respond differently, approaches

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Speaker 1: are differently, So real quickly with some guys, just give

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Speaker 1: me what comes to top of mind in terms of

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Speaker 1: what they do well, what stands out when you're dealing

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Speaker 1: with this kind of a hitter. Let's start with a

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Speaker 1: guy you had now both in Washington and in Philadelphia,

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Speaker 1: Bryce Harper. Explosive. I mean when I look at Bryce site,

427
00:22:42,158 --> 00:22:45,638
Speaker 1: it's it's one of the most explosive swings I've ever seen.

428
00:22:46,118 --> 00:22:50,598
Speaker 1: And to be kind of that violent um and have

429
00:22:50,718 --> 00:22:53,638
Speaker 1: the back to ball skills that he has, Um, he's

430
00:22:53,638 --> 00:22:58,158
Speaker 1: just special. I mean I really admire um what this

431
00:22:58,198 --> 00:23:00,718
Speaker 1: guy has done. He's made changes in a swing. When

432
00:23:00,718 --> 00:23:02,758
Speaker 1: you saw him when he first came up to where

433
00:23:02,758 --> 00:23:05,238
Speaker 1: he is now, it's a completely different swing. I mean

434
00:23:05,278 --> 00:23:08,358
Speaker 1: the violence is still there, but he's controlled his movements

435
00:23:08,518 --> 00:23:11,798
Speaker 1: a lot better, especially now we see him spread out

436
00:23:11,838 --> 00:23:15,518
Speaker 1: like you're talking about with two strikes. So great example there.

437
00:23:15,518 --> 00:23:18,558
Speaker 1: How about Juan Soto, another guy with an unbelievable bass

438
00:23:18,718 --> 00:23:22,678
Speaker 1: underneath him. The best young hitter I've ever seen, and

439
00:23:22,798 --> 00:23:27,118
Speaker 1: to this day be the best swing I've ever seen

440
00:23:27,318 --> 00:23:34,158
Speaker 1: besides Barry Bonds. Um Wan Soto Um is almost perfect

441
00:23:34,198 --> 00:23:38,798
Speaker 1: with this wing. It's really that good. But having said that,

442
00:23:38,838 --> 00:23:42,078
Speaker 1: you go, you know, he hit two forty something last year,

443
00:23:42,118 --> 00:23:45,318
Speaker 1: So even a guy with that swing can go through

444
00:23:45,358 --> 00:23:49,558
Speaker 1: some struggles. It's a hard game just to tweak Joe here,

445
00:23:49,918 --> 00:23:54,118
Speaker 1: Daniel Murphy. What did you do with Daniel Murphy? Wow? Yeah,

446
00:23:54,238 --> 00:23:56,798
Speaker 1: just gonna throw that one out there. That was the

447
00:23:56,838 --> 00:23:59,318
Speaker 1: most obscene four games I've ever seen in my life.

448
00:23:59,518 --> 00:24:03,078
Speaker 1: Let me tell you, in so many ways, he is uh,

449
00:24:03,278 --> 00:24:05,558
Speaker 1: he's got a end of his own. He thinks differently

450
00:24:05,598 --> 00:24:09,598
Speaker 1: than most people. I remember when I first met Murph,

451
00:24:09,638 --> 00:24:13,678
Speaker 1: I had this list I do offseason stuff with with

452
00:24:13,798 --> 00:24:16,478
Speaker 1: guys swings, and I write all these notes. Why had

453
00:24:16,518 --> 00:24:19,198
Speaker 1: all these notes on mirth? And he said, well, why

454
00:24:19,238 --> 00:24:22,398
Speaker 1: would I change anything I do. I'm making eleven million

455
00:24:22,398 --> 00:24:24,998
Speaker 1: dollars right now. I said, well, what if you could

456
00:24:25,038 --> 00:24:29,398
Speaker 1: make twin? What if there was more in their mirth?

457
00:24:30,278 --> 00:24:33,678
Speaker 1: He said, all right, I hear you. Let's let's try it.

458
00:24:33,718 --> 00:24:37,158
Speaker 1: So in spring training, Um we started messing with this swing,

459
00:24:37,278 --> 00:24:42,238
Speaker 1: doing some things, and after many he might have been

460
00:24:42,278 --> 00:24:46,158
Speaker 1: hitting two oh five to ten. It was not very good.

461
00:24:46,198 --> 00:24:48,558
Speaker 1: It was the year that Joe was talking about where

462
00:24:48,558 --> 00:24:51,918
Speaker 1: he went crazy in the playoffs. You think importonists, don't you,

463
00:24:52,438 --> 00:24:54,198
Speaker 1: I said, I surely hope not, because I think you're

464
00:24:54,198 --> 00:24:56,078
Speaker 1: starting to get it. He goes, Oh, yeah, I'm getting it.

465
00:24:56,838 --> 00:24:59,678
Speaker 1: He said, it's it's coming. I can start. I'm starting

466
00:24:59,678 --> 00:25:03,278
Speaker 1: to feel it. And Joe was talking about he started

467
00:25:03,278 --> 00:25:05,598
Speaker 1: to feel it, and by the end of the season

468
00:25:05,678 --> 00:25:07,438
Speaker 1: he was right where he needed to be. And then

469
00:25:07,438 --> 00:25:10,438
Speaker 1: the playoffs started, and this guy was a man possessed.

470
00:25:10,478 --> 00:25:13,318
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like it. It was seven home

471
00:25:13,438 --> 00:25:18,478
Speaker 1: runs in seven straight games against the best pitching in baseball,

472
00:25:19,398 --> 00:25:24,158
Speaker 1: one after another. It was Arietta to Lester to Fernandal

473
00:25:24,278 --> 00:25:29,118
Speaker 1: Rodney at homer off of Kershaw Grinky. It was. It

474
00:25:29,158 --> 00:25:32,238
Speaker 1: was unbelievable. It was. It was a fascinating run. I

475
00:25:32,278 --> 00:25:34,758
Speaker 1: also like the fact that you referenced his batting average

476
00:25:34,758 --> 00:25:37,598
Speaker 1: and not his OPS. He was sitting two five, he

477
00:25:37,678 --> 00:25:40,358
Speaker 1: was sitting to his His OPS wasn't like six seventy

478
00:25:40,398 --> 00:25:43,558
Speaker 1: three or something like that. And I had Daniel, I

479
00:25:43,638 --> 00:25:45,638
Speaker 1: had Daniel no, exactly, we're talking. I love the guy.

480
00:25:45,758 --> 00:25:49,238
Speaker 1: I we still we texted this this this winter already.

481
00:25:49,318 --> 00:25:53,678
Speaker 1: Um uh a unique young man, really bright these Uh

482
00:25:53,918 --> 00:25:55,878
Speaker 1: you're not. You just can't tell him stuff like ka

483
00:25:55,998 --> 00:25:58,318
Speaker 1: long salk. You just can't say stuff to him. You

484
00:25:58,398 --> 00:26:00,958
Speaker 1: got to really back it up because he will challenge

485
00:26:00,998 --> 00:26:03,678
Speaker 1: you every and I love that. I love when a

486
00:26:03,718 --> 00:26:06,798
Speaker 1: play are will challenge my theories or what I'm saying

487
00:26:06,798 --> 00:26:08,798
Speaker 1: to him. And those are the guys that make you

488
00:26:08,838 --> 00:26:11,198
Speaker 1: better coaches, because there's nothing you're going to get away

489
00:26:11,198 --> 00:26:13,998
Speaker 1: with with talking to the s guy unless of substantiated.

490
00:26:13,998 --> 00:26:16,718
Speaker 1: And Daniel is a perfect example of that. And yeah,

491
00:26:16,718 --> 00:26:19,998
Speaker 1: I mean listen, he hit everything. He hit everything that series.

492
00:26:20,358 --> 00:26:22,998
Speaker 1: I don't care if it's breaking ball down, fastball in

493
00:26:23,118 --> 00:26:26,318
Speaker 1: elevated whatever. It was incredible to watch a display that

494
00:26:26,318 --> 00:26:30,238
Speaker 1: he put on. Well here here's another fascinating thing. He says, Okay,

495
00:26:30,238 --> 00:26:33,758
Speaker 1: I'm gonna sit on Fernando Rodney's changing right in the

496
00:26:33,758 --> 00:26:38,198
Speaker 1: middle of history. Murph, you do whatever you need to

497
00:26:38,198 --> 00:26:43,118
Speaker 1: do out of your way, right. So he goes up

498
00:26:43,158 --> 00:26:45,438
Speaker 1: there and he hits a nineties seven mile out of

499
00:26:45,478 --> 00:26:49,238
Speaker 1: fastball off Rodney the right centery. It's a Homer and

500
00:26:49,318 --> 00:26:51,198
Speaker 1: he comes in and he's shaking his head. He goes,

501
00:26:51,438 --> 00:26:56,518
Speaker 1: don't ask me. I don't even know how Hey, Kevin,

502
00:26:56,558 --> 00:26:59,878
Speaker 1: how about how about Derek Jeter? To me, of all

503
00:26:59,918 --> 00:27:02,678
Speaker 1: the guys I've covered, he may be the most routine

504
00:27:02,838 --> 00:27:06,358
Speaker 1: oriented great player that I've been around. Just the same

505
00:27:06,398 --> 00:27:09,958
Speaker 1: guy every day, Like it's the same guy. You wouldn't

506
00:27:09,958 --> 00:27:13,478
Speaker 1: know if he was over twenty or twenty. He did

507
00:27:13,598 --> 00:27:16,878
Speaker 1: the same and he acted the same every single day.

508
00:27:16,878 --> 00:27:19,038
Speaker 1: And I tell you know, we had a we have

509
00:27:19,078 --> 00:27:23,358
Speaker 1: a kid, Alec Bomb, and Bomb would like where his

510
00:27:23,398 --> 00:27:25,958
Speaker 1: emotions on his sleeve, and he'd have a chip on

511
00:27:25,998 --> 00:27:28,558
Speaker 1: his shoulder and it was just so up and down.

512
00:27:28,598 --> 00:27:31,118
Speaker 1: And I said, I'm gonna give you an example of

513
00:27:31,158 --> 00:27:33,998
Speaker 1: a guy might have been one of the greatest players

514
00:27:34,038 --> 00:27:36,958
Speaker 1: that's ever played, who never changed. You couldn't tell I

515
00:27:36,998 --> 00:27:40,078
Speaker 1: want you to be more like him. And this guy

516
00:27:40,278 --> 00:27:43,398
Speaker 1: was his name was Derek Jeter. And when he came

517
00:27:43,438 --> 00:27:46,838
Speaker 1: to the cage, it was the same routine every single day.

518
00:27:47,078 --> 00:27:51,438
Speaker 1: It was the same drills. He never he never got

519
00:27:51,438 --> 00:27:53,558
Speaker 1: off that, he never got away from it. I mean

520
00:27:53,558 --> 00:27:55,718
Speaker 1: there was times where I wanted him to pull the ball.

521
00:27:55,878 --> 00:27:58,918
Speaker 1: He pulled the ball. I don't pull the ball, klong.

522
00:27:59,198 --> 00:28:02,798
Speaker 1: I'm not doing anything that with Poland I'm not gonna

523
00:28:02,838 --> 00:28:06,318
Speaker 1: do um And that was That was Derek Jeter. It

524
00:28:06,398 --> 00:28:08,718
Speaker 1: was incredible to watch him because nobody stayed inside the

525
00:28:08,758 --> 00:28:10,558
Speaker 1: ball longer than he did, or try to do it more.

526
00:28:10,558 --> 00:28:12,638
Speaker 1: I mean, you knew that as a pitching staff, you

527
00:28:12,678 --> 00:28:14,478
Speaker 1: knew that. As a defense, you knew that you hit

528
00:28:14,518 --> 00:28:17,958
Speaker 1: the ball in the ground. I've never had such a

529
00:28:17,958 --> 00:28:21,238
Speaker 1: good player opposition wise that hit more groundballs than he did.

530
00:28:21,278 --> 00:28:23,518
Speaker 1: That was as good as he was. Um. It was

531
00:28:23,558 --> 00:28:27,358
Speaker 1: just constantly, like you said, stayed with one method and

532
00:28:27,358 --> 00:28:28,758
Speaker 1: and it worked and he made it work, and it

533
00:28:28,878 --> 00:28:32,958
Speaker 1: was you have to be really um strong mentally in

534
00:28:33,038 --> 00:28:35,758
Speaker 1: order to do something like that. But I've never I mean,

535
00:28:36,318 --> 00:28:38,078
Speaker 1: everybody knew what they wanted to do against him, and

536
00:28:38,118 --> 00:28:39,638
Speaker 1: you try to do but if you made one mistake

537
00:28:39,678 --> 00:28:41,558
Speaker 1: just a little bit over the plate, it was gonna

538
00:28:41,558 --> 00:28:43,158
Speaker 1: get ripped. And I'll tell you what, if there's runner

539
00:28:43,158 --> 00:28:45,878
Speaker 1: in scoring position late in the game, two outs, the

540
00:28:45,878 --> 00:28:48,158
Speaker 1: ball is gonna find grass in the outfield. Somehow. That's

541
00:28:48,158 --> 00:28:51,998
Speaker 1: just who he was. I think I was absolutely fascinating.

542
00:28:52,038 --> 00:28:55,918
Speaker 1: He really and the bigger the situation, the more I

543
00:28:55,998 --> 00:28:58,878
Speaker 1: knew he was gonna come through correct, truly felt that.

544
00:28:58,958 --> 00:29:03,678
Speaker 1: So an age Tom Joe we talked about lonch Angle

545
00:29:03,718 --> 00:29:05,838
Speaker 1: and the ball in the air. Eric Jeter had the

546
00:29:05,878 --> 00:29:10,278
Speaker 1: lowest no I think career of any any guy that's

547
00:29:10,318 --> 00:29:13,718
Speaker 1: ever played, which I think it was like one. Hendrick

548
00:29:13,878 --> 00:29:16,118
Speaker 1: was very low and I think he was at four.

549
00:29:17,198 --> 00:29:19,318
Speaker 1: And they did the same thing. They backed the ball

550
00:29:19,398 --> 00:29:21,398
Speaker 1: up and they hit the ball the other way. That's

551
00:29:21,798 --> 00:29:24,318
Speaker 1: what made Derek Jeter a Hall of Famer and what's

552
00:29:24,438 --> 00:29:27,118
Speaker 1: what made him so great. If you think about it,

553
00:29:27,798 --> 00:29:30,318
Speaker 1: if you're going to hit an off speed pitch, but

554
00:29:30,398 --> 00:29:32,198
Speaker 1: you already backed up the ball, it kind of helps

555
00:29:32,238 --> 00:29:35,238
Speaker 1: you do that. So that's helpe Jeter and it helps

556
00:29:35,478 --> 00:29:39,278
Speaker 1: Howie Kendrick tremendously because they were always able to back

557
00:29:39,358 --> 00:29:41,918
Speaker 1: the ball up. When you backed the ball up the

558
00:29:41,918 --> 00:29:43,998
Speaker 1: way they did, it's hard to hit it in the air.

559
00:29:44,758 --> 00:29:47,438
Speaker 1: It's just if you're bad enough time to work the

560
00:29:47,518 --> 00:29:50,718
Speaker 1: proper angle. So um, that's the way they hit. Um.

561
00:29:51,078 --> 00:29:55,118
Speaker 1: They were you know, both those guys, Howie and Jeter.

562
00:29:55,678 --> 00:29:59,278
Speaker 1: Um to me, Um, we're very much alike in it

563
00:29:59,438 --> 00:30:02,558
Speaker 1: and their thought processing and how they swung them ay

564
00:30:02,638 --> 00:30:04,718
Speaker 1: one more for you. K It's a guy that you

565
00:30:04,878 --> 00:30:07,558
Speaker 1: and Joe know really well, Kyle Schwarber. And one of

566
00:30:07,598 --> 00:30:09,278
Speaker 1: the things we like to do on this show is

567
00:30:09,358 --> 00:30:13,038
Speaker 1: we talk about guys we call glue guys, guys who

568
00:30:13,438 --> 00:30:18,118
Speaker 1: contribute to the team because they their mortar. They bind

569
00:30:18,158 --> 00:30:20,718
Speaker 1: the team together, they see beyond themselves, they make the

570
00:30:20,878 --> 00:30:23,318
Speaker 1: guys around them better. And I remember you telling me

571
00:30:23,358 --> 00:30:25,478
Speaker 1: about Kyle and some of the things he did in

572
00:30:26,318 --> 00:30:29,918
Speaker 1: two for Bryce Harper specifically. UM, so give me your

573
00:30:29,958 --> 00:30:33,958
Speaker 1: take on Schwarb's just helpless. I mean, all he cares

574
00:30:33,998 --> 00:30:37,238
Speaker 1: about is winning. That's it. It's all he wants, all

575
00:30:37,278 --> 00:30:39,678
Speaker 1: he wants. And he's in the cage and he'll be

576
00:30:39,798 --> 00:30:41,758
Speaker 1: down there with his coffee and he'll get down there

577
00:30:41,758 --> 00:30:45,238
Speaker 1: at one o'clock and we're just shooting the ship for

578
00:30:45,638 --> 00:30:49,118
Speaker 1: hours and we're just talking baseball. We're pulling up video

579
00:30:49,198 --> 00:30:53,278
Speaker 1: and we're talking about guys on the team. Uh, it's

580
00:30:53,358 --> 00:30:56,878
Speaker 1: not even about him, it's just about other people and

581
00:30:57,638 --> 00:31:00,518
Speaker 1: um trying to get the team to jail. I remember

582
00:31:00,598 --> 00:31:03,318
Speaker 1: we were, you know, I just got to Philly and

583
00:31:03,398 --> 00:31:07,638
Speaker 1: we were talking about free agents, and UM, they said, well,

584
00:31:08,278 --> 00:31:11,318
Speaker 1: you know, our clubhouse is a little fraid we're missing

585
00:31:11,358 --> 00:31:15,078
Speaker 1: something in that clubhouse. And I said, well, I got

586
00:31:15,158 --> 00:31:18,478
Speaker 1: a I got a guy, and I said, he'll change

587
00:31:18,478 --> 00:31:22,198
Speaker 1: the whole complexion of that clubhouse. And the guy's name

588
00:31:22,278 --> 00:31:25,398
Speaker 1: is Kyles Farber. And you know he's gonna be hit

589
00:31:25,478 --> 00:31:28,958
Speaker 1: or missed, and there's gonna be some times where you

590
00:31:28,998 --> 00:31:31,038
Speaker 1: know you don't want him at the plate. He's just

591
00:31:31,678 --> 00:31:36,358
Speaker 1: he's um, you know. But at the end of the day, UM,

592
00:31:36,398 --> 00:31:39,758
Speaker 1: he's going to help everybody in that clubhouse become the

593
00:31:39,798 --> 00:31:42,998
Speaker 1: best version of themselves that they can possibly be. UM.

594
00:31:43,038 --> 00:31:46,798
Speaker 1: So they targeted Swarber and he did what he do

595
00:31:46,878 --> 00:31:50,078
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you what. That clubhouse and that team

596
00:31:50,318 --> 00:31:55,718
Speaker 1: jailed and came together, and Kyle's Farber Um, in my opinion,

597
00:31:55,998 --> 00:31:59,198
Speaker 1: deserves most of the credit for that. He handles failure

598
00:31:59,238 --> 00:32:02,998
Speaker 1: really well, especially obviously at the plate. I mean, even

599
00:32:03,038 --> 00:32:05,518
Speaker 1: going through bad moment said that he doesn't lose his confidence.

600
00:32:05,798 --> 00:32:08,798
Speaker 1: He might, at least he won't show it. He's always

601
00:32:08,798 --> 00:32:12,158
Speaker 1: the same cat every day. And I really believe where

602
00:32:12,158 --> 00:32:13,718
Speaker 1: he comes from. His family has a lot to do

603
00:32:13,758 --> 00:32:17,358
Speaker 1: with this. He comes from a family first responders, very

604
00:32:17,358 --> 00:32:21,718
Speaker 1: blue collar, and he's very very grounded. I grew up

605
00:32:21,718 --> 00:32:25,878
Speaker 1: in Indiana, played football there. Whatever, But he is He's

606
00:32:25,918 --> 00:32:28,998
Speaker 1: exactly who you think he is. There's nothing kidden. There's

607
00:32:29,038 --> 00:32:32,278
Speaker 1: no pretense about this guy whatsoever. He is. He is.

608
00:32:32,398 --> 00:32:34,598
Speaker 1: He is the dirt he is that. He's that solid,

609
00:32:34,678 --> 00:32:37,918
Speaker 1: and so he handles adversity well because he could strike

610
00:32:37,958 --> 00:32:40,558
Speaker 1: out ten times in a row and he'll tell you

611
00:32:40,718 --> 00:32:42,678
Speaker 1: look at you straight in the eyeballs with that look,

612
00:32:42,718 --> 00:32:44,678
Speaker 1: with his big brown eyes, and he just goes right

613
00:32:44,758 --> 00:32:47,078
Speaker 1: through you. And I'm fine, I'm gonna get this guy

614
00:32:47,158 --> 00:32:48,558
Speaker 1: right now. I'm gonna get him this that bat. And

615
00:32:48,558 --> 00:32:50,358
Speaker 1: he believes it, and that's a big part of the

616
00:32:50,358 --> 00:32:53,038
Speaker 1: why it's so successful. So I was looking at something.

617
00:32:53,198 --> 00:32:56,358
Speaker 1: Kyle Slober started off the playoffs over twenty. I don't

618
00:32:56,358 --> 00:33:00,358
Speaker 1: know if you remember he was over twenty. You know

619
00:33:00,398 --> 00:33:03,838
Speaker 1: what Kyle Farber ended up doing in the playoffs, ended

620
00:33:03,998 --> 00:33:05,918
Speaker 1: up with a nine thirty seven O p s. I

621
00:33:05,918 --> 00:33:09,478
Speaker 1: know you don't. That's fine, We're good. I mean he

622
00:33:09,598 --> 00:33:12,838
Speaker 1: hit to eighteen is on base was four he slugged

623
00:33:12,878 --> 00:33:17,158
Speaker 1: at and we were talking about this. He goes, you know,

624
00:33:17,238 --> 00:33:19,438
Speaker 1: give me, let's go through my stuff from last year.

625
00:33:19,478 --> 00:33:22,918
Speaker 1: So because he's gonna start hitting today. Okay, this stuff

626
00:33:22,958 --> 00:33:25,998
Speaker 1: and I'm going, dude, the playoffs, he goes bro I

627
00:33:26,038 --> 00:33:30,998
Speaker 1: started off the playoffs over twenty I was like, he

628
00:33:31,038 --> 00:33:34,758
Speaker 1: had fifty five at bats. So it's just it's just

629
00:33:34,998 --> 00:33:40,758
Speaker 1: takes to cosh Warber and who's right on team player. Hey,

630
00:33:40,798 --> 00:33:42,798
Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break and we get back.

631
00:33:43,638 --> 00:33:47,158
Speaker 1: I really want to ask Kevin about new rule changes

632
00:33:47,238 --> 00:33:50,438
Speaker 1: in baseball in three I have a feeling he's gonna

633
00:33:50,438 --> 00:34:03,798
Speaker 1: like him. Hey, welcome back to the Book of Joe podcasts.

634
00:34:03,998 --> 00:34:06,038
Speaker 1: And I mentioned rule change is the one that stands

635
00:34:06,038 --> 00:34:10,478
Speaker 1: out obviously is defensive positioning. Uh, no more shifts, No

636
00:34:10,518 --> 00:34:15,438
Speaker 1: more infielders playing on the outfield. Grass Um and Kevin,

637
00:34:15,478 --> 00:34:18,038
Speaker 1: I think about especially the left handed hitters, and just

638
00:34:18,118 --> 00:34:20,558
Speaker 1: to throw some numbers at you, I mean you're aware

639
00:34:20,558 --> 00:34:23,838
Speaker 1: of this trend obviously, going back to before the world

640
00:34:23,878 --> 00:34:26,158
Speaker 1: went crazy with shifts. If you are a lefty and

641
00:34:26,198 --> 00:34:28,598
Speaker 1: you hit a ground ball to the pull side, you

642
00:34:28,638 --> 00:34:31,398
Speaker 1: hit a buck eighty six. It's not great. Nobody wants

643
00:34:31,438 --> 00:34:33,638
Speaker 1: to hit groundballs, but sometimes you get a hard ground ball.

644
00:34:33,678 --> 00:34:36,678
Speaker 1: Back then, it was a base hit. Last year, remember

645
00:34:36,678 --> 00:34:41,038
Speaker 1: what SI last year with all those shifts same groundballs

646
00:34:41,038 --> 00:34:44,798
Speaker 1: to the pull side for lefties one and it was

647
00:34:44,918 --> 00:34:48,918
Speaker 1: one thirteen when there was a shift in play. So basically,

648
00:34:49,078 --> 00:34:50,838
Speaker 1: if you're a lefty and saw a shift, you hit

649
00:34:50,878 --> 00:34:53,718
Speaker 1: a ground ball, you're out ninety percent of the time.

650
00:34:54,558 --> 00:34:57,918
Speaker 1: And that's going to change, Kevin, you know that with

651
00:34:58,398 --> 00:35:00,598
Speaker 1: two infielders have to be on each side of the

652
00:35:00,638 --> 00:35:03,718
Speaker 1: bag and they cannot be on the outfield grass. So

653
00:35:03,958 --> 00:35:06,558
Speaker 1: give me your sense of what we're going to see

654
00:35:06,598 --> 00:35:10,758
Speaker 1: how it will change baseball. Well, it's gonna change. It's

655
00:35:10,798 --> 00:35:13,638
Speaker 1: gonna help the hit her, no doubt about it. Um,

656
00:35:13,678 --> 00:35:16,478
Speaker 1: there's gonna be more run scored, there's gonna be more

657
00:35:16,518 --> 00:35:20,558
Speaker 1: traffic on the basis UM, And I think hitting is

658
00:35:20,598 --> 00:35:25,798
Speaker 1: gonna get back to UM guys being able to move

659
00:35:25,838 --> 00:35:28,478
Speaker 1: the ball the way they want to. UM. You know,

660
00:35:28,518 --> 00:35:31,958
Speaker 1: the whole era of getting the ball in the air

661
00:35:32,038 --> 00:35:35,238
Speaker 1: and this whole launching will evolved because if you hit

662
00:35:35,238 --> 00:35:38,278
Speaker 1: a ground ball basically the pull side, you were out.

663
00:35:39,198 --> 00:35:42,838
Speaker 1: So what happens is you have to start working out

664
00:35:42,878 --> 00:35:45,318
Speaker 1: in front of the baseball. So strikeouts are gonna increase

665
00:35:45,358 --> 00:35:48,078
Speaker 1: because you're trying to elevate the ball and you can't

666
00:35:48,078 --> 00:35:50,158
Speaker 1: elevate the ball by hitting it off your back hip.

667
00:35:51,198 --> 00:35:53,558
Speaker 1: So what happens is you start working out in front

668
00:35:53,558 --> 00:35:59,838
Speaker 1: of the baseball and strikeouts increase. UM, and guys, you know,

669
00:35:59,998 --> 00:36:03,838
Speaker 1: just they forget how to hit. Um. You know that's

670
00:36:03,918 --> 00:36:06,358
Speaker 1: simple stuff on getting a guy in from third and

671
00:36:06,358 --> 00:36:10,718
Speaker 1: and moving runners. It becomes non existent. Um. You know,

672
00:36:10,838 --> 00:36:13,638
Speaker 1: lefty lefties had to work so far out in front

673
00:36:13,638 --> 00:36:17,038
Speaker 1: of the ball. It ruined Brian McKinnon swing. It literally

674
00:36:17,198 --> 00:36:20,438
Speaker 1: ruined this wing. He knew anything to the pull side

675
00:36:20,438 --> 00:36:22,958
Speaker 1: on the ground he was out. Um. It affected Jay

676
00:36:22,958 --> 00:36:27,478
Speaker 1: Bruce when I had him a lot, Um, Curtis Granderson,

677
00:36:27,598 --> 00:36:32,238
Speaker 1: it actually might have helped him because UM, I don't

678
00:36:32,398 --> 00:36:34,278
Speaker 1: he was able to there was a fine line, but

679
00:36:34,318 --> 00:36:35,958
Speaker 1: he was able to hit a lot of home runs

680
00:36:36,838 --> 00:36:39,718
Speaker 1: because we knew that any groundball to the pull side

681
00:36:39,718 --> 00:36:42,678
Speaker 1: would have been out. But for the most part, Um,

682
00:36:42,718 --> 00:36:45,558
Speaker 1: it hurt hitters and it hurt their ability to move

683
00:36:45,598 --> 00:36:50,678
Speaker 1: the baseball the right way. So I'm excited, um for

684
00:36:50,758 --> 00:36:53,398
Speaker 1: what's about to happen. I think you're gonna see the

685
00:36:53,398 --> 00:36:58,078
Speaker 1: averages go up. I think you know, hitting so hard anyway,

686
00:36:58,678 --> 00:37:01,238
Speaker 1: and we need some more confidence in what we do.

687
00:37:01,518 --> 00:37:04,758
Speaker 1: Joe was talking about how hitting coaches don't last. Well,

688
00:37:04,918 --> 00:37:07,638
Speaker 1: the reason why they don't last is because it's hard

689
00:37:07,678 --> 00:37:10,838
Speaker 1: to be consistent hitting, it really is, and and good pitching,

690
00:37:10,878 --> 00:37:14,398
Speaker 1: for the most part, beats good hitting. Um, so this might,

691
00:37:14,838 --> 00:37:18,278
Speaker 1: you know, I don't equal out the plane surface a

692
00:37:18,278 --> 00:37:22,238
Speaker 1: little bit. We'll see what happens. You know, it's it's

693
00:37:22,398 --> 00:37:25,438
Speaker 1: definitely gonna gonna favor the hitter. But that's really music

694
00:37:25,478 --> 00:37:27,398
Speaker 1: to myers because I agree with all what you're saying there,

695
00:37:27,478 --> 00:37:31,358
Speaker 1: keb I, Um, I really um. I would like to

696
00:37:31,398 --> 00:37:34,158
Speaker 1: see a retro kind of thing, going back to the

697
00:37:34,198 --> 00:37:37,158
Speaker 1: original game at baseball the way they've been played. Um,

698
00:37:37,358 --> 00:37:38,958
Speaker 1: what's what are you? What are you gonna compensate for?

699
00:37:39,078 --> 00:37:41,038
Speaker 1: That's part of the problem too. I mean the home

700
00:37:41,118 --> 00:37:43,798
Speaker 1: runs are being compensated for. Strikeouts are okay, don't worry

701
00:37:43,798 --> 00:37:46,198
Speaker 1: about striking out. It's okay to strike out and try

702
00:37:46,238 --> 00:37:49,478
Speaker 1: to accept your walks. Under those circumstances you're talking about,

703
00:37:49,558 --> 00:37:52,158
Speaker 1: hitter is lefties with less time to make a decision

704
00:37:52,158 --> 00:37:55,078
Speaker 1: and longer swings, which then led to more out in front,

705
00:37:55,078 --> 00:37:59,318
Speaker 1: ground ball, strikeouts being fold etcetera. I'm into compensation. I

706
00:37:59,358 --> 00:38:00,678
Speaker 1: think you know, at the end of the day, which

707
00:38:00,678 --> 00:38:03,158
Speaker 1: whatever you want, compensate for it. So if you want

708
00:38:03,198 --> 00:38:06,918
Speaker 1: to see greater batting averages, which will also lead to

709
00:38:06,958 --> 00:38:09,718
Speaker 1: some opious it's gonna lead to runs being scored with

710
00:38:09,718 --> 00:38:11,518
Speaker 1: two ounce. It doesn't have to be a home run,

711
00:38:11,878 --> 00:38:14,638
Speaker 1: situational hitting, moving runner second and third with lesson to

712
00:38:14,758 --> 00:38:16,838
Speaker 1: us the ball has been moved, run run third, and

713
00:38:16,838 --> 00:38:18,678
Speaker 1: feel then feel back. I mean, all this stuff that

714
00:38:18,718 --> 00:38:21,718
Speaker 1: we drilled and you drilled that you have and beyond

715
00:38:21,718 --> 00:38:24,798
Speaker 1: with kse, etcetera. It's kind of gone away, man, because

716
00:38:24,838 --> 00:38:26,918
Speaker 1: I mean, I've been involved in meetings the last couple

717
00:38:26,918 --> 00:38:30,198
Speaker 1: of years where people sitting on the sidelines talking about

718
00:38:30,238 --> 00:38:32,918
Speaker 1: this stuff really aren't interested. They aren't interested in those

719
00:38:32,958 --> 00:38:34,558
Speaker 1: things because again, at the end of the day, they

720
00:38:34,558 --> 00:38:37,598
Speaker 1: don't think it's going to impact the winning baseball team.

721
00:38:37,678 --> 00:38:40,478
Speaker 1: But with like you're saying, the new rules being in place,

722
00:38:40,518 --> 00:38:43,678
Speaker 1: I think there's gonna be a greater emphasis on execution

723
00:38:43,878 --> 00:38:46,678
Speaker 1: once again, and I'm looking forward to because that's that's

724
00:38:46,718 --> 00:38:48,798
Speaker 1: to me, what the fans are missing. And when you're

725
00:38:48,798 --> 00:38:51,598
Speaker 1: talking about us losing appeal on a broader sense and

726
00:38:51,678 --> 00:38:54,518
Speaker 1: a broader scale, because the game has become boring because

727
00:38:54,558 --> 00:38:58,358
Speaker 1: it is so predictable, and the lack of predictability would

728
00:38:58,398 --> 00:39:01,318
Speaker 1: be hitters that are able to do other things. Put

729
00:39:01,318 --> 00:39:02,998
Speaker 1: the ball, play, moved the ball, play the game as

730
00:39:02,998 --> 00:39:04,878
Speaker 1: that have been designed. But if you're gonna do that,

731
00:39:04,918 --> 00:39:07,598
Speaker 1: compen safe for it. Right down to stealing bases, you're

732
00:39:07,598 --> 00:39:11,238
Speaker 1: talking about bigger bases, less distance between the both go

733
00:39:11,238 --> 00:39:15,438
Speaker 1: ahead and compensate base stealers, UH based stealing champions, etcetera.

734
00:39:15,758 --> 00:39:17,838
Speaker 1: Whatever you want to get out of the game, compensate

735
00:39:17,878 --> 00:39:19,318
Speaker 1: for a little bit more, because you got what you

736
00:39:19,358 --> 00:39:21,478
Speaker 1: wanted with the strikeouts and home runs when it was

737
00:39:21,478 --> 00:39:25,878
Speaker 1: compensated for. And that's exactly what happened. And I talked

738
00:39:25,918 --> 00:39:29,478
Speaker 1: to our guys when we get into the playoffs, I said, gentlemen,

739
00:39:29,598 --> 00:39:33,158
Speaker 1: this is gonna be about how we command the strike zone,

740
00:39:33,398 --> 00:39:36,278
Speaker 1: our discipline at the plate, and our ability to move

741
00:39:36,318 --> 00:39:39,158
Speaker 1: the baseball and do the little things. So we got

742
00:39:39,198 --> 00:39:42,718
Speaker 1: done with our first two series is and UM. At

743
00:39:42,718 --> 00:39:46,438
Speaker 1: the end of those first series against St. Louis UM,

744
00:39:46,518 --> 00:39:49,518
Speaker 1: we were five for five with runners on second moving

745
00:39:49,518 --> 00:39:53,438
Speaker 1: on to the third, and I think we were nine

746
00:39:53,558 --> 00:39:58,718
Speaker 1: for sixteen getting guys in from third. So those types

747
00:39:58,798 --> 00:40:00,798
Speaker 1: and I and I would reiterate this to these guys.

748
00:40:00,838 --> 00:40:03,758
Speaker 1: I said, okay, after the first two series, I think

749
00:40:03,998 --> 00:40:07,518
Speaker 1: were seven for seven, moved runners from second and I

750
00:40:07,558 --> 00:40:10,958
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe I don't have me, but it was very,

751
00:40:11,078 --> 00:40:14,598
Speaker 1: very good. And what happened was we started to believe

752
00:40:14,718 --> 00:40:19,158
Speaker 1: in each other um our teammates, and we started to

753
00:40:19,198 --> 00:40:22,118
Speaker 1: do the little things. UM. And when you do that,

754
00:40:22,278 --> 00:40:26,198
Speaker 1: you start to build team camaraderie. And it was happening,

755
00:40:26,718 --> 00:40:30,678
Speaker 1: each guy to a man um harbor. At one point Bunted.

756
00:40:31,198 --> 00:40:34,038
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I don't I don't know about that,

757
00:40:34,958 --> 00:40:37,638
Speaker 1: but you know we he did it, he Bunted. I

758
00:40:37,718 --> 00:40:39,838
Speaker 1: think it was against St. Louis. He laid down a

759
00:40:39,878 --> 00:40:44,198
Speaker 1: bunt Um. But guys became selfless and we started to

760
00:40:44,238 --> 00:40:48,278
Speaker 1: be developed as a team. UM. And that's truly what

761
00:40:48,398 --> 00:40:53,358
Speaker 1: happened is um. It was offensive baseball at its best.

762
00:40:53,398 --> 00:40:56,238
Speaker 1: And then it becomes very very difficult at times to

763
00:40:56,278 --> 00:40:59,798
Speaker 1: do that, especially when you're facing the likes of the

764
00:40:59,798 --> 00:41:03,358
Speaker 1: Houston Astros pitching staff. UM. It just became harder up

765
00:41:03,518 --> 00:41:06,918
Speaker 1: to ext a cute. But nonetheless, that's that was our

766
00:41:06,958 --> 00:41:09,118
Speaker 1: goal going in. Last point with that, I mean, when

767
00:41:09,118 --> 00:41:11,358
Speaker 1: you're talking about here, it's not a physical adaptation. This

768
00:41:11,398 --> 00:41:14,238
Speaker 1: is all mental you guys. You guys decided as a group,

769
00:41:14,278 --> 00:41:16,718
Speaker 1: we're gonna do this. So then when you're taking batting

770
00:41:16,718 --> 00:41:19,798
Speaker 1: practice wherever you're working, you call it a situation, and

771
00:41:19,838 --> 00:41:22,278
Speaker 1: the hitter then adapts and makes the adjustment. How do

772
00:41:22,318 --> 00:41:24,078
Speaker 1: I do this? How do I get the ball the

773
00:41:24,078 --> 00:41:26,918
Speaker 1: ground on the right side. They'll do something internally because

774
00:41:26,918 --> 00:41:28,518
Speaker 1: they know what it takes to move the ball to

775
00:41:28,598 --> 00:41:31,638
Speaker 1: that side. It doesn't take a mechanical thought or adjustment.

776
00:41:31,638 --> 00:41:34,318
Speaker 1: It takes a mental thought or adjustment. And that I

777
00:41:34,358 --> 00:41:37,118
Speaker 1: called adaptation. So that when you get the whole group

778
00:41:37,158 --> 00:41:40,238
Speaker 1: thinking that way, brother, you guys, you become very dangerous.

779
00:41:41,238 --> 00:41:43,518
Speaker 1: And I told you, guys, I said, that's actually what

780
00:41:43,598 --> 00:41:47,478
Speaker 1: happened with the Washington Nationals. We did the exact same thing. Guys.

781
00:41:48,038 --> 00:41:50,678
Speaker 1: We're playing team baseball. When you play team baseball and

782
00:41:50,718 --> 00:41:53,838
Speaker 1: you nine guys pulling the rope the same way, it

783
00:41:53,878 --> 00:41:59,678
Speaker 1: becomes a very very difficult situation for the other team.

784
00:41:59,718 --> 00:42:02,598
Speaker 1: And that's that's exactly what happened. Kevin. I got one

785
00:42:02,638 --> 00:42:04,678
Speaker 1: more job for you where you get out of here.

786
00:42:04,718 --> 00:42:07,438
Speaker 1: Of course, our podcast is based on our book, The

787
00:42:07,478 --> 00:42:10,238
Speaker 1: Book of Joe, and we like to play a game

788
00:42:10,358 --> 00:42:13,958
Speaker 1: with our guests that we call a reading from the

789
00:42:13,958 --> 00:42:17,158
Speaker 1: Book of Joe. So you get to pick any number

790
00:42:17,278 --> 00:42:20,638
Speaker 1: between one and three. That's the number of pages in

791
00:42:20,678 --> 00:42:23,918
Speaker 1: the Book of Joe. And uh, I'm pretty confident, as

792
00:42:23,918 --> 00:42:26,758
Speaker 1: we've done before, no matter what page you turn to,

793
00:42:27,118 --> 00:42:30,878
Speaker 1: you're going to find something interesting in this book. So

794
00:42:31,278 --> 00:42:34,078
Speaker 1: it's your choice now, dealer's choice for Kevin Long one

795
00:42:34,198 --> 00:42:42,878
Speaker 1: through three D WHOA, let's go with three thirty three. Ah,

796
00:42:43,038 --> 00:42:47,038
Speaker 1: that's spoken just like a hitting coach. Is that your

797
00:42:47,078 --> 00:42:50,158
Speaker 1: gold standard? By the way, not just three hundred but three.

798
00:42:50,998 --> 00:42:54,118
Speaker 1: That just came to I just go it could have

799
00:42:54,118 --> 00:43:00,318
Speaker 1: been to ninety nine. I always like that. Okay, um wow,

800
00:43:00,398 --> 00:43:05,198
Speaker 1: this is about Joe's breakup with the Chicago Cubs. Um

801
00:43:05,318 --> 00:43:09,438
Speaker 1: of course this was um theo Epstein and Joe Madden

802
00:43:09,598 --> 00:43:12,278
Speaker 1: kind of their last meetings, if you will, where they

803
00:43:12,318 --> 00:43:16,038
Speaker 1: had a meeting in St. Louis pretty much mutually agree

804
00:43:16,918 --> 00:43:21,438
Speaker 1: that that that was it. Uh. So here's Joe talking

805
00:43:21,478 --> 00:43:24,878
Speaker 1: about kind of what led to or at least finished

806
00:43:24,918 --> 00:43:28,958
Speaker 1: off really was an unbelievable marriage. I wanted more involvement,

807
00:43:28,998 --> 00:43:31,878
Speaker 1: I wanted good information, Joe says, And I've never turned

808
00:43:31,918 --> 00:43:34,758
Speaker 1: my nose to the information. Ever, all of a sudden,

809
00:43:34,758 --> 00:43:37,238
Speaker 1: the information started to become more and more important to

810
00:43:37,278 --> 00:43:40,078
Speaker 1: the people upstairs, more vital to what we're doing. To

811
00:43:40,118 --> 00:43:42,398
Speaker 1: the point, and I think this is where my big

812
00:43:42,478 --> 00:43:45,798
Speaker 1: rub is, they started eliminating jobs. Guys that have put

813
00:43:45,798 --> 00:43:48,278
Speaker 1: in their time were not wanted anymore. The newer front

814
00:43:48,278 --> 00:43:50,238
Speaker 1: office guys really did not want to hear from the

815
00:43:50,238 --> 00:43:53,278
Speaker 1: old baseball guys, and they especially did not want to

816
00:43:53,318 --> 00:43:56,758
Speaker 1: hear their evaluations because the new method evaluation had to

817
00:43:56,758 --> 00:44:00,198
Speaker 1: be done in an analytical perspective. It was in their

818
00:44:00,198 --> 00:44:05,478
Speaker 1: minds eye more precise. It's subtractive feel, It subtracted experience,

819
00:44:06,158 --> 00:44:10,878
Speaker 1: it was more unaffected. It was pure because the numbers

820
00:44:10,998 --> 00:44:14,398
Speaker 1: lacked emotion, the process lacked emotion. I always talked about

821
00:44:14,398 --> 00:44:17,718
Speaker 1: the process as being fearless. Maybe that's the part of

822
00:44:17,758 --> 00:44:21,798
Speaker 1: what their aspirations were to have this fearless method. I

823
00:44:21,838 --> 00:44:25,798
Speaker 1: admit I kind of agreed with it sometimes, So there

824
00:44:25,838 --> 00:44:31,278
Speaker 1: you go. We talked about the balance between data and art. Kevin,

825
00:44:31,798 --> 00:44:34,598
Speaker 1: and I know you deal with this on a daily basis,

826
00:44:34,638 --> 00:44:37,638
Speaker 1: because that's what baseball is. It's a balance of the two.

827
00:44:38,078 --> 00:44:40,478
Speaker 1: There is that was well said by the way, because

828
00:44:41,198 --> 00:44:44,118
Speaker 1: I think we've all been in those situations, especially if

829
00:44:44,318 --> 00:44:46,358
Speaker 1: we've been around as long as we have, and Joe's

830
00:44:46,398 --> 00:44:49,198
Speaker 1: been around a long time and seeing to go the

831
00:44:49,238 --> 00:44:53,678
Speaker 1: game evolved into maybe a little bit more analytical than

832
00:44:53,878 --> 00:44:56,838
Speaker 1: than baseball on the field and guys that just have

833
00:44:56,998 --> 00:44:59,798
Speaker 1: been there, done that. Um, the old school way of

834
00:44:59,798 --> 00:45:03,198
Speaker 1: doing things. Um, there's a lot of good data, there's

835
00:45:03,238 --> 00:45:06,198
Speaker 1: a lot of good people, but there's gotta be a mix,

836
00:45:06,278 --> 00:45:12,118
Speaker 1: and there's gotta be um you know that that there's

837
00:45:12,158 --> 00:45:15,198
Speaker 1: gotta be value for the baseball people that really does

838
00:45:15,558 --> 00:45:18,038
Speaker 1: and when it when it's ways the other way, it

839
00:45:18,118 --> 00:45:21,838
Speaker 1: becomes difficult. So um. And and you know what the

840
00:45:21,878 --> 00:45:23,998
Speaker 1: other part of that is is I've been through that

841
00:45:24,158 --> 00:45:28,238
Speaker 1: where I've had a marriage, uh, and it's ended and

842
00:45:28,318 --> 00:45:32,038
Speaker 1: it's not easy, especially you know my marriage with the Yankees.

843
00:45:32,158 --> 00:45:36,958
Speaker 1: The Yankees was tough when it ended. Um, but um,

844
00:45:36,998 --> 00:45:39,078
Speaker 1: you know it was I have a lot of good memories,

845
00:45:39,118 --> 00:45:40,918
Speaker 1: as Joe has a lot of good memories with THEO.

846
00:45:41,558 --> 00:45:46,758
Speaker 1: Um those were everlasting, that will be there forever. Um.

847
00:45:46,838 --> 00:45:49,158
Speaker 1: I think that's what you gotta lean on, is the

848
00:45:49,198 --> 00:45:54,518
Speaker 1: good times. But um, you know, I think that the

849
00:45:54,558 --> 00:45:58,078
Speaker 1: mix between the two is vital to one last point.

850
00:45:58,078 --> 00:45:59,598
Speaker 1: I'll turn it back to you told me. I'm just

851
00:45:59,958 --> 00:46:04,398
Speaker 1: my biggest concern is that the words feel, experience, wisdom

852
00:46:04,678 --> 00:46:07,518
Speaker 1: do not become archaic. I mean, they're they're they're they're

853
00:46:07,518 --> 00:46:10,838
Speaker 1: really almost frowned upon when you're bringing something like that

854
00:46:10,918 --> 00:46:13,438
Speaker 1: up in a meeting and you express yourself as something

855
00:46:13,478 --> 00:46:16,158
Speaker 1: as a field or something I've experienced, and then you

856
00:46:16,198 --> 00:46:18,198
Speaker 1: don't even want to talk about wisdom. That's for somebody

857
00:46:18,198 --> 00:46:20,238
Speaker 1: else to determine if you have that or not. But

858
00:46:20,278 --> 00:46:24,598
Speaker 1: it's almost becoming archaic UM and people uh looking for

859
00:46:24,718 --> 00:46:27,838
Speaker 1: more controllable commodities, people that lack that stuff because I

860
00:46:27,878 --> 00:46:30,318
Speaker 1: want to tell you what to feel, what to think,

861
00:46:30,398 --> 00:46:32,598
Speaker 1: and how to react, as opposed to have me gone

862
00:46:32,598 --> 00:46:36,358
Speaker 1: through the gauntlet starting in UM extended spring training, what

863
00:46:36,558 --> 00:46:41,038
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nineteen, So whatever that was for you whenever

864
00:46:41,118 --> 00:46:43,118
Speaker 1: whenever you started, it's not not nineteen and you started

865
00:46:43,118 --> 00:46:47,318
Speaker 1: playing whenever you started, you're extended spring training. That is experienced,

866
00:46:47,358 --> 00:46:50,438
Speaker 1: that's wisdom, that's feel that you developed by through trial

867
00:46:50,478 --> 00:46:53,638
Speaker 1: and error. And there's times you did the absolute wrong thing,

868
00:46:53,918 --> 00:46:55,678
Speaker 1: but you did it on the back field where nobody

869
00:46:55,678 --> 00:46:57,958
Speaker 1: can notice and you could fix it, and you could

870
00:46:57,998 --> 00:47:00,238
Speaker 1: talk to people and you could almost apologize, which I've

871
00:47:00,238 --> 00:47:02,558
Speaker 1: done for some of the stupid things I've said to people.

872
00:47:02,638 --> 00:47:05,678
Speaker 1: But uh, those really important things that I'm concerned are

873
00:47:05,678 --> 00:47:08,078
Speaker 1: going to become more of an our kig part of

874
00:47:08,078 --> 00:47:11,638
Speaker 1: our baseball society and society in general. Yeah. And there's

875
00:47:11,678 --> 00:47:14,998
Speaker 1: there's coaches that are guys that just played and they

876
00:47:15,038 --> 00:47:17,998
Speaker 1: think that coaching is easy, and they think they should

877
00:47:18,038 --> 00:47:21,238
Speaker 1: start off big weeks. Right, I spent eighteen straight years

878
00:47:21,238 --> 00:47:25,438
Speaker 1: and minors eighteen straight and people go, God, you've you've

879
00:47:25,598 --> 00:47:28,198
Speaker 1: you've had it so easy, right, things things have worked

880
00:47:28,198 --> 00:47:31,198
Speaker 1: out so good for you. Yeah, well you should have

881
00:47:31,238 --> 00:47:32,878
Speaker 1: been there in those bus rides. You should have been

882
00:47:32,878 --> 00:47:35,118
Speaker 1: there when I was making thirty two thousand or less

883
00:47:35,278 --> 00:47:40,118
Speaker 1: for fifteen straight years. I mean those are facts. Um,

884
00:47:40,158 --> 00:47:43,558
Speaker 1: those are who what made me who I am today.

885
00:47:43,678 --> 00:47:46,638
Speaker 1: And people think, just because you know, they had this

886
00:47:46,758 --> 00:47:49,878
Speaker 1: marvelous baseball career, that they can just walk into coaching

887
00:47:50,318 --> 00:47:53,118
Speaker 1: and it's gonna and it's that's not the case. I

888
00:47:53,158 --> 00:47:55,838
Speaker 1: think you gotta, you know, put in the time and

889
00:47:56,718 --> 00:47:59,918
Speaker 1: do do the analytical people do that? Do they where

890
00:47:59,918 --> 00:48:02,598
Speaker 1: do they start? They start right at the top, or

891
00:48:02,838 --> 00:48:04,758
Speaker 1: do they have to go through some trial one error.

892
00:48:04,798 --> 00:48:06,758
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't I don't know. It just doesn't

893
00:48:06,758 --> 00:48:09,758
Speaker 1: seem like some of these guys have have been through

894
00:48:09,758 --> 00:48:12,998
Speaker 1: the grind um the way they should. But I don't know.

895
00:48:13,238 --> 00:48:16,638
Speaker 1: That's whole another discussion. Well, we talked about it all

896
00:48:16,638 --> 00:48:19,238
Speaker 1: the time here, Kevin. The struggle. You know, the struggle

897
00:48:19,278 --> 00:48:21,398
Speaker 1: is a beautiful thing. There's nothing wrong with it, and

898
00:48:21,438 --> 00:48:24,078
Speaker 1: you more than paid your dues to get where you're at.

899
00:48:24,758 --> 00:48:26,718
Speaker 1: One more thing, Kevin, before you go. If I'm a

900
00:48:26,758 --> 00:48:29,438
Speaker 1: Phillies fan, what a ride? Man? I mean, last year

901
00:48:29,558 --> 00:48:33,638
Speaker 1: was just unbelievable. That place was electric. The vibe is

902
00:48:33,678 --> 00:48:36,998
Speaker 1: back in Philly. What can you tell a Phillies fan that, Hey,

903
00:48:37,038 --> 00:48:39,758
Speaker 1: this wasn't a one hit wonder. It's like we've got

904
00:48:39,798 --> 00:48:43,238
Speaker 1: something sustainable here. This wasn't a hot team, you know,

905
00:48:43,358 --> 00:48:45,838
Speaker 1: through the month of October, but there's something that's just

906
00:48:45,918 --> 00:48:49,238
Speaker 1: getting started. Um, give us something to hang onto there.

907
00:48:49,278 --> 00:48:52,198
Speaker 1: If you're a Phillies fan, Trade Turner would be one,

908
00:48:52,398 --> 00:48:58,558
Speaker 1: not bad one. Taiwan Walker might be another. Um. It's

909
00:48:58,358 --> 00:49:02,318
Speaker 1: the fact that the John Milton is not content, he's

910
00:49:02,358 --> 00:49:05,798
Speaker 1: not sure it was a great run and um, you know,

911
00:49:05,798 --> 00:49:09,198
Speaker 1: there's some good things happening in Philly, but ultimately we

912
00:49:09,278 --> 00:49:11,678
Speaker 1: felt short of our goal, which was to win the

913
00:49:11,678 --> 00:49:16,078
Speaker 1: World Series. Um what did John Middleton go out and do?

914
00:49:16,438 --> 00:49:19,198
Speaker 1: He said, let's let's go get some some more players,

915
00:49:19,398 --> 00:49:22,678
Speaker 1: get some more death. Let's let's take this a little

916
00:49:22,678 --> 00:49:26,358
Speaker 1: bit further and see what happens. So, um, you know,

917
00:49:26,438 --> 00:49:29,078
Speaker 1: we still have Nolan and Wheeler at the top of

918
00:49:29,118 --> 00:49:33,078
Speaker 1: our rotation. Ranger Swarez is as good as anybody, Taiwan Walker.

919
00:49:33,198 --> 00:49:37,358
Speaker 1: We got a young kid, Andrew Painter, who's um, a

920
00:49:37,398 --> 00:49:41,078
Speaker 1: fabulous young pitcher who's the nineties six to a hundred. Um,

921
00:49:41,078 --> 00:49:44,798
Speaker 1: We've got a great offense, um, and we got a

922
00:49:44,918 --> 00:49:47,438
Speaker 1: we had a lot of good things happening. UM. So

923
00:49:47,558 --> 00:49:51,478
Speaker 1: we'll we'll see where this takes us. But the Philly

924
00:49:51,518 --> 00:49:55,078
Speaker 1: fans are I should be excited about about this team,

925
00:49:55,918 --> 00:49:58,878
Speaker 1: about where we're going and about what we're trying to accomplish.

926
00:49:59,238 --> 00:50:01,998
Speaker 1: Awesome stuff. Really, this has been a pleasure, Kevin. We

927
00:50:01,998 --> 00:50:05,278
Speaker 1: could talk all day. It's just so fascinating, and you're

928
00:50:05,318 --> 00:50:06,958
Speaker 1: not only great at what you do about you're great

929
00:50:06,998 --> 00:50:10,158
Speaker 1: explaining it. So we appreciate your time. Bett Thanks guys,

930
00:50:10,158 --> 00:50:12,398
Speaker 1: it was it was a blast. That was awesome. Thanks

931
00:50:12,478 --> 00:50:15,118
Speaker 1: Ka Long appreciate your brother. Happy New Year, Happy New Year,

932
00:50:15,118 --> 00:50:17,478
Speaker 1: do you guys see Babe? Alright, Sabe, Tommy, you just

933
00:50:17,598 --> 00:50:19,438
Speaker 1: we were just talking kind of off air a little

934
00:50:19,438 --> 00:50:22,038
Speaker 1: bit with Kevin. But UM, I think more people need

935
00:50:22,078 --> 00:50:25,838
Speaker 1: to hear Kevin speak on subjects other than just hitting. UM.

936
00:50:25,878 --> 00:50:27,678
Speaker 1: I mean I'm sitting here, We're sitting here doing the

937
00:50:27,718 --> 00:50:30,318
Speaker 1: City of You almost an hour and you could hear

938
00:50:30,358 --> 00:50:35,238
Speaker 1: the completeness of his baseball acumen. I mean, this guy's uh,

939
00:50:35,478 --> 00:50:38,878
Speaker 1: he relates to people, he's got. He definitely established his

940
00:50:38,918 --> 00:50:45,198
Speaker 1: trust within the group. He has definitely connections regarding relationship building. Uh,

941
00:50:45,238 --> 00:50:47,558
Speaker 1: there's so much going on there. And I think when

942
00:50:47,558 --> 00:50:50,038
Speaker 1: a guy is a hitting coach, especially, I think even

943
00:50:50,038 --> 00:50:52,558
Speaker 1: so a certain extent a pitching coach, you get known

944
00:50:52,598 --> 00:50:55,238
Speaker 1: as that and it's almost like being a character actor.

945
00:50:55,238 --> 00:50:58,038
Speaker 1: You can't be the leading man. But when you listen

946
00:50:58,118 --> 00:51:00,878
Speaker 1: to him, UM, I'd love for him to get more

947
00:51:00,878 --> 00:51:04,798
Speaker 1: opportunities to be heard because I think he uh, he's

948
00:51:04,798 --> 00:51:06,638
Speaker 1: a man for all seasons. He speaks about the new

949
00:51:06,678 --> 00:51:09,558
Speaker 1: with the old. UM. I think when he explains himself

950
00:51:09,638 --> 00:51:13,118
Speaker 1: it's really lucid and um, if you're looking for a

951
00:51:13,398 --> 00:51:15,078
Speaker 1: higher right there, my goodness that you don't have to

952
00:51:15,078 --> 00:51:17,158
Speaker 1: look much further. I know, you know he's not maybe

953
00:51:17,158 --> 00:51:20,398
Speaker 1: an analytical maybe and sometimes that turns people off, but

954
00:51:20,518 --> 00:51:22,518
Speaker 1: he's he always he said it already. I mean, he's

955
00:51:22,798 --> 00:51:25,758
Speaker 1: into all that stuff, but he wants to more things

956
00:51:25,798 --> 00:51:29,598
Speaker 1: together and not just try to get to top heavy

957
00:51:29,638 --> 00:51:31,838
Speaker 1: with one or the other. So I just I would

958
00:51:31,838 --> 00:51:33,758
Speaker 1: just like to see where people listen to Kevin. I

959
00:51:33,758 --> 00:51:36,798
Speaker 1: think his message was outstanding. Yeah, great observation. I'm with

960
00:51:36,838 --> 00:51:39,158
Speaker 1: you on that. You know, he did interview twice before,

961
00:51:39,278 --> 00:51:41,998
Speaker 1: once with the Mets when Mickey Callaway was hired and

962
00:51:41,998 --> 00:51:44,638
Speaker 1: then with the Nationals when Davy Martinez was hired. He

963
00:51:44,678 --> 00:51:46,998
Speaker 1: did manage a couple of years in the minor leagues,

964
00:51:47,038 --> 00:51:50,558
Speaker 1: winning percentage over six hundred. You can just tell hopefully

965
00:51:50,558 --> 00:51:53,798
Speaker 1: our listeners do listening to him. That's not just about hitting.

966
00:51:53,798 --> 00:51:58,638
Speaker 1: His overall philosophy and above all else, his communication strengths,

967
00:51:58,638 --> 00:52:01,238
Speaker 1: which to me is job one with the major league manager,

968
00:52:01,398 --> 00:52:04,198
Speaker 1: those are off the charts. And you know, maybe he's

969
00:52:04,198 --> 00:52:06,478
Speaker 1: another lou Pinella. I mean, lou Pinella was a great

970
00:52:06,558 --> 00:52:09,278
Speaker 1: hitting coach, and you know it kind of broke through

971
00:52:09,278 --> 00:52:11,398
Speaker 1: that mold as a manager wind up winning a World

972
00:52:11,398 --> 00:52:14,318
Speaker 1: Series with the Cincinnati Reds. Charlie Manuel Charlie is the

973
00:52:14,318 --> 00:52:16,958
Speaker 1: same guy. Perfect example. Yeah, it could be the next

974
00:52:17,518 --> 00:52:20,598
Speaker 1: next role for Kevin Longber right now. He's as I said,

975
00:52:20,638 --> 00:52:22,238
Speaker 1: I think he's the best hitting coach in the game.

976
00:52:22,278 --> 00:52:24,638
Speaker 1: That was a pleasure listening to him. All right, Joe,

977
00:52:24,678 --> 00:52:27,278
Speaker 1: that's another edition of the Book of Joe podcast. You

978
00:52:27,358 --> 00:52:28,958
Speaker 1: got something to take us out? I do. I think

979
00:52:28,998 --> 00:52:32,198
Speaker 1: it's like perfect for everything that just we talked about today.

980
00:52:32,278 --> 00:52:35,598
Speaker 1: Kevin the time that he spent grinding through the minor leagues.

981
00:52:36,438 --> 00:52:39,198
Speaker 1: Hitting coaches, they pretty much live in a concrete tunnel

982
00:52:39,398 --> 00:52:42,918
Speaker 1: called the betting cage or tunnel underneath the ballpark stands.

983
00:52:43,518 --> 00:52:45,958
Speaker 1: And I think this is perfect. This comes from Andrea Agassi.

984
00:52:46,718 --> 00:52:50,838
Speaker 1: All the good stuff is on the other side of tired. God.

985
00:52:50,918 --> 00:52:53,678
Speaker 1: I love that it's all about work. As he's talking

986
00:52:53,718 --> 00:52:57,598
Speaker 1: about the grind um. You see all the wonderful things

987
00:52:57,598 --> 00:53:00,318
Speaker 1: that occur in an athletes life, but it really is

988
00:53:00,358 --> 00:53:03,798
Speaker 1: on the other side of tired. That's outstanding. I love it.

989
00:53:04,078 --> 00:53:06,478
Speaker 1: Amen to that. See you next time, all right, brother

990
00:53:13,118 --> 00:53:15,478
Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of I

991
00:53:15,638 --> 00:53:18,918
Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit

992
00:53:18,958 --> 00:53:22,358
Speaker 1: the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

993
00:53:22,398 --> 00:53:23,438
Speaker 1: get your podcasts.