WEBVTT - Stevie Van Zandt 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:12.879 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Gets Podcast. 0:00:13.080 --> 0:00:16.279 My guest today is Stevie van zand he's got a 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:22.160 new autobiography, Unrequited Infatuations. Stephen, glad to have you here. 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:25.320 I'm good to be with you, man. Okay, let's start 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:28.400 from the beginning. Your friends, what do they call you? Miami? 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:34.320 Little Steven, Steve, Stephen ste is fine, No, but what 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:40.000 do they call you? Thank? Call me? Yeah, okay, Steve 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:45.480 or Stevie or Stephen, Stevie mostly Stevie mostly growing up? 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:51.920 Were you always Stevie? Yeah? Okay. So one thing you 0:00:51.960 --> 0:00:56.240 mentioned in the book is an offend comment that if 0:00:56.320 --> 0:01:01.160 your finances were better then maybe you could have afforded children. 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:05.440 Is this something you consciously thought of? Well? Yeah, to 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:10.840 an extent, I never felt really stable enough to have children. 0:01:11.240 --> 0:01:15.400 I never gave it a serious thought as to, um, 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.560 you know, should I should I find a way to 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:22.800 do that or not? But as my life has unfolded, 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:28.600 it's been rather unstable, and I really do feel one 0:01:28.640 --> 0:01:32.959 should feel some stability before one has some children. You 0:01:32.959 --> 0:01:37.440 know my own feeling. Any regrets that you didn't have them? 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:43.240 I don't know, Um, not really? You know, it's just 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:46.640 it wasn't It wasn't in the cards. This this life, 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:50.840 you know, maybe next life. I don't know. Okay, do 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:54.200 you believe in reincarnation or you religious person or just 0:01:54.240 --> 0:02:01.240 saying that, I'm just saying that I'm not a religious person. Uh, 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.800 you know, I just I really, I really don't have 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:08.600 any thoughts about it. I Um, I think it's probably 0:02:08.639 --> 0:02:13.040 because of my own arrested development that I never felt 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:16.560 like I quite grew up myself. So I'm not sure 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:20.400 I would never be qualified two uh for that for 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:24.040 that very important role in life. Okay, you wrote the book, 0:02:24.280 --> 0:02:28.079 it's now out. How are you dealing with the reception? 0:02:29.400 --> 0:02:33.160 I gotta tell you the truth. It's been amazing, amazingly 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:40.120 well received, um, more than any album and I and 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:42.600 I've always gotten good album reviews, you know, I got 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.920 no complaints, but uh, this is something I mean, the 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.840 response has been remarkable, to be honest, I mean I 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:52.359 didn't expect that, you know, New York Times best seller 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:56.239 List and uh, London Times and l A and every 0:02:56.320 --> 0:03:00.960 everywhere is doing well and uh and the reviews been spectacular. 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.560 It's just one of those things that I didn't really 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:07.400 think about. I just did it. But but the results 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:11.360 have been amazing so far. Great, And now that the 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.920 book is finalized, is there anything that you would want 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:20.080 to go back and change? Um? No, I caught a 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:22.920 couple of errors when I did the audio book, you know, 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:27.000 which uh makes me wonder if if if those things 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:29.959 are done in the wrong order, you know, I think 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.280 most most books have done that way. You know, you 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.760 do the audiobook last. I wonder though, if I do 0:03:35.840 --> 0:03:38.840 another book, I think I'll do the audiobook first, because 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:41.440 if you find I mean, we've been through this thing 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:45.800 seven eight nine times, me and my editor and my 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:51.000 publisher and so many and others, and there was still 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:55.000 like a dozen mistakes left in it, you know. But 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.800 so that was nothing nothing major, nothing making it was 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:02.560 a grammatical mistake. It's just through a stupid stupid things. Yeah, nothing, 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:05.000 you know, there was there was one serious thing where 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:11.480 like the wrong album. Uh what was it? Uh? Uh 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:15.440 you know somebody, some some bands album was was the 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:19.440 wrong album which uh, which wasn't my mistake, it was 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:22.520 it was made by once. I mean, you you know 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:24.839 the process. But once you go through your own process, 0:04:25.320 --> 0:04:29.200 it goes through an editorial process with the publisher, and 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.839 sometimes they will change things thinking that they're correcting something 0:04:32.880 --> 0:04:36.480 when they're not. So it's all very very The book 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:38.400 world is a trip, and I gotta tell you the truth. 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.600 It's a different it's a different world, and it takes 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:44.040 some it takes some adjusting. You know, you gotta you 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:47.320 gotta give up some of the usual total control that 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:50.719 that I usually demand. I mean, I just I just 0:04:50.760 --> 0:04:53.760 did eight days in Europe and the book is different 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:59.640 in every country. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna try 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:02.719 and collect them all because you know, I mean, there 0:05:02.720 --> 0:05:07.600 are there are countries that change the title without mentioning 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:13.800 it to you, like damn, that's that's different. You know. 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:17.560 So you know, you work very hard to get everything 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:20.280 exactly right. You know, when you're making albums, you know 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.640 that everything from the art to the graphics to you know, 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:27.080 you name it, and to go from country to country 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:29.920 and having it would be different every single time has 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:34.400 been pretty pret remarkable. And you know, one country left 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:38.240 off the Dylan blurb, you know, one country left off 0:05:38.240 --> 0:05:42.839 the McCartney blurb. You know, you know it'll just change 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:46.960 the title. Okay, you have all those blurbs in the 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:50.719 book are you self conscious about asking for those or 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:55.120 you have no problem. I didn't ask. I couldn't do it. 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:59.080 I couldn't do it, you know, Um, I don't. I 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:03.520 didn't ask anybody. I think the publisher, the publisher mostly 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:08.560 did it. UM trying to think of either a publisher 0:06:08.680 --> 0:06:11.159 or my managers would uh would you know, talk to 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:15.520 talk to people? And uh, my publishers said, have been 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:20.960 you know, uh friendly with Bob Dylan's manager, and they 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:23.080 you know, they sent every single book to him. And 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.560 it's the first time he's ever actually done a blurb 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.480 that they can remember. Nobody can remember another Bob Dylan blurb. 0:06:30.320 --> 0:06:32.839 Somebody says there might have been one forty or fifty 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:37.160 years ago for Alan Ginsberg or somebody. Uh. So that 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.800 was that was beyond beyond belief. I mean, that was 0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:43.040 that was so so so nice of him to do. 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.160 And I didn't ask, um, but I did send him 0:06:46.160 --> 0:06:47.840 the book right away, I said, I sent the book 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.080 to Bruce. So I sent the book to Bob because 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:52.560 I didn't want it to be one of those books 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:56.960 that you know, any kind of gossip or or I 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:01.000 didn't want to make any Bruce news at all. And uh, 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:04.760 some of the conversations with Bruce and Bob were intimate, 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:08.520 private conversations. I wanted to make sure they were cool, 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:12.040 you know, with those um and that has been the 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:14.200 challenge in the book because I I know a little 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:16.440 bit too much, you know, So it's a matter of 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:19.040 what do you leave in? You know, what do you 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.320 leave out? And it's a little bit, it's a little bit. 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:24.520 You're gonna be a little bit careful about that. So 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.960 in those two cases, I thought, I want to try, 0:07:28.000 --> 0:07:30.880 I want to check with them, and they neither one 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.960 of them changed one single word, which which was which 0:07:34.000 --> 0:07:36.640 was nice? Well, there's the code of the road, as 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.920 we know. And speaking of the road, that's where you 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:42.960 seem to run into Dylan in the book. It seems 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:46.120 like you don't have that extensive and interaction with him 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:50.280 in your life. What is the truth now that we're talking. Yeah, 0:07:50.440 --> 0:07:55.360 he's just sort of a fantastic acquaintance. You know. It's 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:59.040 not I wouldn't I wouldn't be so uh, you know, 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:04.760 changress to say, you know, we're best friends, but uh, 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:06.920 I don't know. I just think we we just had 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:09.320 to like each other and run into each other every 0:08:09.320 --> 0:08:13.120 couple of years. Um, you know, we don't talk every day, 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.600 like like me and me and Bruce do you know, 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:21.040 pretty much. But but Bob is just every time I 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:26.920 see him, it's an adventure. And uh, I just I 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:29.880 just thought that they're just kind of fun, this kind 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:34.040 of fun encounters because he's just a fun guy. I mean, he's, uh, 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.040 you know, he's in some ways he's very very normal, 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:41.800 and in some ways he's just uh, he's just always 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:45.520 surprising you with something, you know. So it's uh, I 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:47.199 just I just love the guy. I mean, aside from 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:52.040 being so extraordinarily important to my work and everybody else's, 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:56.320 uh and his place in history, but he uh, he's 0:08:56.360 --> 0:09:00.360 just one of those fascinating kick cats that that very proud, 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:04.040 very proud to know him. And uh, but I don't 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:06.400 see him nearly as often as as as I as 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:11.400 I wish, I wish I could. What's your favorite Dylan album? Oh, 0:09:11.440 --> 0:09:13.640 it's got to be Blonde. I'm Blonde in the end. 0:09:13.800 --> 0:09:15.640 I mean, you know, I like a lot of them, 0:09:15.679 --> 0:09:19.199 but mind I'm Blonde was the one that just, h 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.200 you know, it's it was just the the ultimate, the 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:27.160 ultimate Dylan album. I think a lot of people agree 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:31.000 with you that's really the number one true fans. But 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:35.440 I'm really bringing it all back home guy, because you 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:40.480 know it's all right, ma, it is transcendent. And of course, 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:44.000 at this led, at this late date, subterranean Homesick Blues 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:46.400 is a big deal. Everyone talks about Highway sixty one, 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:50.040 but I prefer bringing it all back home. Yeah. That 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:55.680 was that's the half electric catholic acoustic one, right, right, exactly? Yeah, yeah, 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:59.400 I know, I mean, you know, maybe maybe skipping the 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:03.440 first one, but you know, other than that, the first seven, uh, 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.520 just remarkable. I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't argue with anybody. 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.200 I mean, free wheeling, you know, times they were changing, 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:12.679 you you, you know, extraordinary things on these records. I 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.520 mean complete completely. I mean, I know the words used 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:20.080 too often, but they are game changers for the folk world. 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:24.600 They completely changed the folk world overnight. And uh and 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:27.080 then as soon as as soon as they you know, 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:29.480 they were kind of reluctant to accept him because he 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:33.480 was kind of radical, and then the truth they accept them. 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:38.400 They kind of walked away and plugged in because but 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.920 but but no. I talked about Subtorian Homestay Blues in 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:46.040 the book as the single most important, you know, two 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:50.080 sentences in history of rock and roll. I think I 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:52.160 certainly know the record. For those people who don't know 0:10:52.200 --> 0:10:56.200 the record, why don't you just give us the two lines? Well, 0:10:56.240 --> 0:10:59.800 the first the first line he's you know, he because 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:05.840 Bob is a mixture of you know, playfulness and fun 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:13.920 and uh, you know, just kind of uh, you know, 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:16.840 he always he's always wanted to make you think a 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:20.200 little a little bit and has you know, coming from 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:24.640 the beat, poetry, the metaphor and symbolism type stuff, but 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:29.320 also just sometimes just stream of consciousness. And and he 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.920 doesn't even he doesn't even intend to say anything. He 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:34.720 just likes putting the words together. I don't think anybody 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:36.880 loves English language as much as Bob Dylan. He just 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:39.760 loves the language and loves to play with it. So 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.480 the first line is is this kind of that a 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:45.600 little provocative, a little little you know, which is Johnny's 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:49.120 in the basement mixing up the medicine. You know, what 0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:51.960 does that mean? I go through like five or six 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:54.880 things it could mean in the book, but you know, 0:11:55.559 --> 0:11:58.040 And then the second line is the is the one 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:03.440 I'm on the pavement think about the government well, what 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:08.480 a weird thing to say to us thirteen fifteen year olds. 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:11.720 You know, what do you mean? They're thinking about the government. 0:12:12.040 --> 0:12:14.440 Who would want to do that? Why? Why would you 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:20.760 do that? You know? Uh, that was a remarkable thing 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:25.120 to say in a pop song, you know, basically, and 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.280 uh it really made you think. And I've been thinking 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:31.240 ever since. You know, Okay, let's go back to the 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:33.839 book for a second. Your name is on the cover, 0:12:34.520 --> 0:12:36.920 but when you go inside the book as an editor, 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.439 to what degree was the editor involved in the writing 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:42.559 of the book, and to or to what degree it's 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:49.200 all yours? I wrote every single word. And I try 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.360 to think in the beginning because I read so many 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:56.320 biographies and they all seemed felt similar because the co 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.600 writer is doing the writing, and it's just they all 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:02.800 become very homogenized. And I just decided, I'm not it's 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:07.200 not gonna be me. Um. So I um, I try 0:13:07.240 --> 0:13:09.720 to figure out how how can I how can I 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:12.840 make sure that this is in my own voice? And 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.600 I thought to myself, well, I'm a picture doing the 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:20.800 audio book, you know, and uh, if I can, if 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:22.640 I can write it the way I you know that 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:26.400 I'm gonna speak it um, it might work. And so 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:31.000 I explained to the publisher and to the uh, to 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.280 my editor, I said, listen, this is not gonna look right. 0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:39.320 It's gonna be not correct grammatically, it's not gonna uh, 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.360 it's gonna be sentenced fragments all over the place. But 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:44.720 if you if you read it the way I'm writing it, 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:48.200 it'll sound like me, you know. And that's what I 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:51.200 ended up doing. Uh, And um, I think it really 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:53.880 worked because everybody the first thing everybody says to me, boy, 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.160 I can really hear you. I hear your voice in 0:13:56.200 --> 0:14:00.400 this and uh, that was very important to me. Um. 0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:02.719 You know, it was hard for my editor because he's 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.600 a co writer and he had done some great books 0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:08.640 for George for George Clinton and Brian Wilson and Quest 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.400 Love and I forget who else. But he's really a 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:15.959 terrific writer himself, and uh, you know, and he did 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:19.120 me a favorite really by by not by not co writing, 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.400 and uh, but he was very very helpful in terms 0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:26.120 of the editing because I can digress, you know, with 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:29.000 the best of them. Man. I mean, you know, it's 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:30.880 hard to make it hard for me to make it 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:35.000 through a page without one story turning into another story, 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:37.480 turning into another story, you know. And I wanted to 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:40.480 keep it somewhat on the on the right path. And 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:45.360 most importantly, I wanted to maintain a balance of the 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:49.400 history because I witnessed every day except the first decade 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:52.520 of rock and roll, and uh, and I got some 0:14:52.560 --> 0:14:56.520 thoughts on that subject, um and and I've been a 0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:00.080 lot involved a lot of craft. So I wanted to 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.640 make sure the craft made it into the book because 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:05.560 I thought that might be useful, you know. And and 0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:07.480 then in the middle, it was the narrative, you know, 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.040 So that balance of those three things was important. And 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:12.800 that's that's what I told the editor to keep an 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.080 eye on. I want to make sure that balanced between 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:19.600 history and narrative and craft, uh, you know, kind of 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:22.960 stuck together throughout the book. I want to wander too 0:15:23.000 --> 0:15:27.520 far from from any of those three things. And and 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:31.880 then and then, you know, when it came to whatever 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:34.200 the whatever I was talking about at that moment, whatever 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:37.800 the event was, or you know, you gotta you gotta 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:41.320 provide a little context, you gotta provide some environment, you 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:44.480 you know, provide what you're thinking in that moment. And 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:46.680 it was a question of how much, you know, for 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:51.240 each for each incident. That that's that's real tricky because 0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.040 you know, you gotta provide some for us. The book 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.600 becomes a list, you know, I did this, and I 0:15:57.640 --> 0:15:59.200 did that, and I did this and I did that. 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.600 You know, that's boring, So you know you want to 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:04.920 you want to make it. You know, I was hoping 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:08.120 that would end up being more like a detective novel 0:16:08.200 --> 0:16:11.560 or Dan Brown book where they don't know what's coming next, 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:14.000 because I didn't know what was coming next, you know. 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.160 I mean, the first half it's been a pretty pretty 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:20.920 linear you know, local kids from Jersey makes it to 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:23.200 the top and rock and roll, which is a great 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.040 story myself, and you know, I'm not I don't want 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.120 to sound ungrateful about that. That's wonderful, you know. But 0:16:29.280 --> 0:16:32.240 the second half, when I leave the street band and 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:37.320 my life has ended literally, uh, and there's no plan 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.720 and now I'm just wandering in the wilderness, I think 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:46.040 it's becomes more interesting. And now that the more universal 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.960 themes start to emerge, I think, you know, the the 0:16:49.000 --> 0:16:51.640 search for identity and the search for purpose in life 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:56.120 and spiritual you know, spiritual enlightenment and those kinds of things, 0:16:56.680 --> 0:16:59.680 um that everybody can relate to, right, I just want 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:04.320 it to be a music book for music people exclusively. Yeah. Okay, 0:17:04.320 --> 0:17:07.080 so you had a book deal and you gave the 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:11.199 money back. Right now you have another book deal. How 0:17:11.240 --> 0:17:14.760 did you decide to actually do it? Was it has 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:17.960 something to do with the time of the uh uh 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:22.240 you know shutdown of America the world? Actually and what 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:24.240 was your process and how long did it take to do? 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:25.959 You one of those guys you know you sharpen your 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:28.760 pencil every day at noon or whatever you started, So 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.439 give us some of the story. Yeah. I think that 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:35.919 the survey of quarantine thing was the biggest factor. I'm 0:17:36.000 --> 0:17:40.800 not sure it would have ever been done without that, honestly. Um, 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:46.400 it just was a perfect opportunity. Um. A big factor 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:51.800 was the previous three years. Two that the seventeen eighteen 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:55.280 nineteen happened to be the most productive years of my 0:17:55.400 --> 0:18:00.280 entire life. Unexpectedly got back into the music business, said 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.600 that no plans to do that, Like most of my 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:07.879 life was just not planned. I got back in, I 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:09.919 put out two two albums which I didn't expect to 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.159 do so Fire in Summer of Sorcery. I ended up 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.639 releasing six album packages in those three years, which is 0:18:16.680 --> 0:18:21.200 about as productive as you can be, you know. And 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:25.159 and so suddenly I reconnected with my life's work, which I, 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:33.199 you know, unconsciously abandoned for thirty years. Um, suddenly I was, 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:37.560 you know, back playing my own songs again, and uh, 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:40.600 I kind of appreciating them, I must say, for the 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.920 first time, maybe uh the first time in a long time, 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.879 appreciating them in a new kind of way. I just felt, 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:51.800 you know, jeezus, stuff was interesting. It has a value 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:55.440 to it that, uh, I've never really considered. It's something 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:59.080 about the you know, the genre I created, this rock 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:04.000 meat soul thing that it kind of holds up in 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:06.800 a funny way because it was never fashionable. You know, 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:10.200 it was never trendy. When I did it the first time, 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:14.560 it wasn't fashionable. So when something's never been fashionable, it 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:17.399 kind of makes it timeless, you know, it gives it 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.600 a timeless quality. And uh, and I just was a 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:24.680 little bit, a little bit struck by by the by 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.680 the nature of the music. And I put together this 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:32.359 amazing band, actually put together by my friend Mark Ribbler, 0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:35.280 put a couple of my old friends in it, and 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:38.760 and and they just performed the stuff so well that 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:43.480 uh uh, I said, well, it sounds so good. I 0:19:43.480 --> 0:19:45.800 mean it all. It all started with with with this 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:48.640 promoter in London at the end of the street tour 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:52.439 two thousand sixteen. He said, when you come back to 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.560 London And I said, well, I usually me and my 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.600 wife's come back every Thanksgiving for her birthday because she 0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:01.520 loves London so much, but this year coming earlier for 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:05.040 Bill Wyman's eightieth birthday, and he said, well, that's that's 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.679 the week of my blues festival. Put a band together 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.960 and and and headline one of the night. And I 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.840 was like, wow, I haven't done that in thirty years. 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.840 But more I thought about it, the more it sounded 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:21.360 like fun. I said, you know what, I'll bring back 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:24.800 the horns and I'll be able to do some like 0:20:24.880 --> 0:20:27.679 Paul Butterfield stuff with the horns that nobody's nobody ever 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:30.960 hears that stuff. I'll do some electric flag nobody ever 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:34.320 hears that stuff. You know, I'll do some blue stuff, 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:37.280 and then I'll do some of my own songs. And 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:40.199 when I started playing my own, my own music, I 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:43.800 was really really struck by it. So so we ended 0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:48.240 up well, let's let's let's make an album and and 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:50.160 the soul FA. I wasn't ready to write a whole 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:53.679 new albums, so we did so fire h an album 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:58.600 of songs I've written for other people. And by accident 0:20:58.720 --> 0:21:02.080 again somebody came by and gave us a sponsorship to tour. 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:05.720 I had a TV show that I was going of 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:10.760 fell through. Bruce decided to do Broadway. I had nothing 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:14.399 better to do. Um, all right, let's let's tour it. 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.199 And we start touring, and then ideas start coming to me, 0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:21.000 and uh and Summer sorcery Man, a whole new album 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:23.760 came out of a gift from the gods, you know, 0:21:24.400 --> 0:21:30.680 and and uh you know, and so suddenly, uh, here 0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:34.400 comes the Quarantine and I felt some closure because of that, 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:37.880 I felt the mute musically, I had a little closure 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:42.840 on that part of my life. And uh, you know, 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:47.520 I had new managers. First time I've ever had managers, uh, 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:50.000 you know, which is many of the problems I run 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:53.600 into in the book, because I never had managers or 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:57.120 manager and U and one of the managers actually suggested 0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:00.480 at the end of the book, which helped me formulate. 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:02.720 You know, Okay, I know the beginning, I know the end. 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:06.880 You know, let's just tell a story and try and 0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:10.639 keep it to uh, try and keep it somewhat coherent, 0:22:10.920 --> 0:22:17.720 because my life, uh, pretty pretty crazy. Okay, So you 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:21.600 talked about reading all the biographies, you know, Ray Davies 0:22:21.600 --> 0:22:24.920 says Ray Davously saying, England. Give me two good reasons 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:29.000 why I ought to stay. Tell me too. Music biographies 0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:34.400 that you think are great, Well, Bob Dylan's Chronicles has 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:42.960 to be number one. Um. I thought Bruce's book were great. Um, 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:50.840 and I liked um, I like Robbie Robertson and uh 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:54.120 and I like Levi on Helms too. Well. One book 0:22:54.160 --> 0:22:55.919 you mentioned in the book which I love is the 0:22:55.960 --> 0:23:01.720 Tommy James book. Oh, I think it's great, really great. Yeah, yeah, 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:08.600 that's great. Uh he's uh, he's lucky to be alive. 0:23:09.160 --> 0:23:14.280 But I mean you know that that was that wasn't 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:18.840 great when Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah, okay, 0:23:18.880 --> 0:23:20.439 So how long did it take you to write your 0:23:20.440 --> 0:23:24.080 book and what was the process? About a year? You know, 0:23:24.080 --> 0:23:26.720 about about a year of the quarantine. I would say, 0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:31.280 um we um, we decided, you know, I wanted I 0:23:31.320 --> 0:23:33.639 wanted to treat this thing a little bit like therapy, 0:23:33.720 --> 0:23:36.560 which which really was. So I I spoke with the 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:41.040 editor I think three times a week for an hour 0:23:41.160 --> 0:23:44.320 or two, like Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays. So I would 0:23:44.320 --> 0:23:49.640 write over the weekend. Um, you know, I would write 0:23:49.720 --> 0:23:53.080 and and then and then we would discuss it and 0:23:53.119 --> 0:23:56.359 I would write. You know, uh, just do that, you know, 0:23:56.560 --> 0:24:00.000 writing constantly and discussing it, like two or three times 0:24:00.000 --> 0:24:06.720 a week. Uh, for various reasons, you know, just to 0:24:06.840 --> 0:24:11.680 make sure again I was maintaining this balance I wanted, um, 0:24:12.800 --> 0:24:15.280 but he was. He also was a good sounding board 0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:20.240 for what people might want to know about you know, um, 0:24:21.440 --> 0:24:24.159 because I gotta I go. There's a lot I kind 0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:28.520 of got a little bit too much in my head. So, um, 0:24:29.160 --> 0:24:31.760 you want to make sure you're you're not boring people 0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:36.080 or spending too much time on one subject, making sure 0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:40.919 you're spending enough time on the subject. Um, those kinds 0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:45.520 of basic you know, limitations that you want to You 0:24:45.600 --> 0:24:48.240 want to have somebody you know saying you know, you're 0:24:48.240 --> 0:24:50.880 going a little too far here or not far enough there. 0:24:51.000 --> 0:24:54.760 So um, there was a almost a constant conversation with 0:24:54.880 --> 0:24:57.440 the editor and I really uh, so you know it 0:24:57.520 --> 0:25:08.320 was really a collaborator in a true sense of the word. Okay, 0:25:08.320 --> 0:25:10.720 how come you never had a manager till now? Well 0:25:11.040 --> 0:25:14.800 asked a big question. I wish, I wish, I wish 0:25:14.840 --> 0:25:17.560 I knew. You know, I spoke to a lot of 0:25:17.640 --> 0:25:19.720 guys when I was looking for a manager for Jukes, 0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:23.320 because I was managing the Jukes in the beginning and 0:25:23.480 --> 0:25:25.920 I desperately wanted to find a manager for them before 0:25:25.960 --> 0:25:30.600 I left uh to join the Easter Band. And uh 0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:32.600 I got, I got I'm the greatest agent in the world. 0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:36.520 That was big, you know, getting him Frank Barcelona. But 0:25:39.080 --> 0:25:43.960 you know, our manager represents you, and uh, I was 0:25:44.040 --> 0:25:48.000 having trouble finding somebody that I felt, okay representing me 0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:52.639 if I'm not in the room, you know. Um And 0:25:52.760 --> 0:25:56.000 I think it has to do with my aversion to 0:25:56.240 --> 0:26:00.480 money frankly and uh and people who's job it is 0:26:00.560 --> 0:26:05.399 to make money. I sometimes have trouble finding a common 0:26:05.480 --> 0:26:08.440 ground with with with people like that, and and and 0:26:09.000 --> 0:26:12.320 in the manager's case, that's kind of that's one of 0:26:12.400 --> 0:26:15.720 their main jobs is to make money. And you know 0:26:15.800 --> 0:26:17.240 what I mean, if I get if I get that 0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:21.360 sense that money is their priority. I uh I don't 0:26:21.400 --> 0:26:27.960 trust it. I don't trust it, uh because for me, uh, integrity, dignity. Uh, 0:26:28.400 --> 0:26:33.240 certainly the art, the work comes first, has to come first. 0:26:33.760 --> 0:26:36.280 And I realized, you know, we're always trying to the 0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:40.080 great dilemmas, trying to find a balance between art and commerce. 0:26:40.560 --> 0:26:43.720 I understand that, and I you know, and I never 0:26:43.800 --> 0:26:47.240 found it. I mean, if anything, my life is the 0:26:48.240 --> 0:26:54.159 triumph of art overcommerce. Uh. But I think you know, 0:26:54.240 --> 0:26:56.119 when I when I sense that somebody is just you know, 0:26:57.480 --> 0:27:01.280 in it for the money, you know, to some extent, 0:27:02.200 --> 0:27:04.240 it just turns me off. So I think that was 0:27:04.359 --> 0:27:07.280 part of it. You know. I just never they were 0:27:07.400 --> 0:27:11.600 quite fast somebody. I mean, looking back, that was that 0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:14.040 was a mistake I should have I should have I 0:27:14.080 --> 0:27:16.760 should have just picked somebody and had them do it, 0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:21.280 because a whole lot of opportunities were lost because because 0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:26.000 of that and uh, not having a buffer. People people 0:27:26.119 --> 0:27:29.160 like the artist to have a buffer. They don't want 0:27:29.160 --> 0:27:32.760 to talk directly to you, you know, they just don't. 0:27:33.840 --> 0:27:36.080 That's just how the business works. They want they wanted 0:27:36.160 --> 0:27:39.200 they want an intermedia, you know, that's why you know, 0:27:39.560 --> 0:27:43.680 the networks. The other thing is, you know, you know, 0:27:43.760 --> 0:27:47.280 I've been through this with deals where they say insulting things. 0:27:47.880 --> 0:27:52.480 They're just negotiating, but hit me emotionally. So since you 0:27:52.680 --> 0:27:57.000 made all your own deals, how good a negotiator are you? 0:27:57.240 --> 0:28:03.560 Certainly in retrospect, Well that's the problem. I'm very good. Uh, 0:28:04.440 --> 0:28:09.160 And it was hard to find managers that were as good. Uh. 0:28:10.480 --> 0:28:13.000 But it wasn't the negotiating of the deals that was 0:28:13.080 --> 0:28:18.199 the problem so much. In fact, there's advantages. There's advantages 0:28:18.240 --> 0:28:21.199 to the artist if you if you can get somebody 0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:25.120 to actually do the deal with you. Uh, there's advantages 0:28:25.200 --> 0:28:29.080 to being the artist. And in that case because they 0:28:29.119 --> 0:28:32.119 don't want to say no to you, you know, so 0:28:32.400 --> 0:28:38.480 sometimes it actually is an advantage. Um. What's the biggest 0:28:38.600 --> 0:28:41.600 problem is there's not the negotiations as much as just 0:28:42.600 --> 0:28:45.720 not having an advocate. I mean, the gig of a 0:28:45.880 --> 0:28:52.240 manager is is advocate. You know. Uh, I can sell 0:28:52.320 --> 0:28:56.400 you all day long, Man, I can't sell me, you know, 0:28:57.760 --> 0:29:01.560 and you need somebody selling you. And asked that that's 0:29:01.600 --> 0:29:04.280 just the truth, man, And I never had that, So 0:29:04.400 --> 0:29:07.680 why do you have it now? Well? I got lucky. 0:29:08.280 --> 0:29:12.080 First of all, I didn't I wasn't looking for a 0:29:12.160 --> 0:29:15.160 manager at this stage of the game and my agent, 0:29:15.520 --> 0:29:17.840 my music agent, one day just said, hey, I'm going 0:29:17.880 --> 0:29:19.640 to lunch with these guys. You know, why don't you 0:29:19.680 --> 0:29:21.840 come along. I didn't even tell me who they were. 0:29:23.320 --> 0:29:27.960 And they were just having a conversation. And at some point, 0:29:28.080 --> 0:29:30.920 you know, they revealed that they were you know, they 0:29:30.920 --> 0:29:35.280 were managers and and uh, at some point I said 0:29:35.320 --> 0:29:39.520 they were interested in managing me. I said, wow, you know, 0:29:40.280 --> 0:29:46.120 you know, about forty years too late, but hey, let's 0:29:46.240 --> 0:29:48.640 let's you know, and I just I just liked them. 0:29:48.720 --> 0:29:50.720 I like, I just liked them both as two guys, 0:29:50.800 --> 0:29:54.240 and I liked them personally, you know, I got I 0:29:54.360 --> 0:29:55.840 kind of kind of got to know. I mean that 0:29:55.960 --> 0:29:59.760 one conversation before you know, before they became my managers. 0:30:00.200 --> 0:30:04.200 But I just kind of like them. And uh, and 0:30:04.360 --> 0:30:07.240 I thought, well, you know, let's see, let's see what 0:30:07.320 --> 0:30:10.240 happens here. Let's see what we can do. Because I've 0:30:10.240 --> 0:30:12.640 always wanted to have a manager, So let's give it 0:30:12.720 --> 0:30:16.240 a try. Let's go back to the beginning. Okay, you know, 0:30:16.360 --> 0:30:19.280 you start Massachusetts, but you really grow up in New Jersey. 0:30:20.040 --> 0:30:22.560 What kind of kid were you? Were you the leader 0:30:22.640 --> 0:30:24.760 of the gang? You remember the gang? You're a guy 0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:27.800 off to the side, you have friends, you didn't have friends. 0:30:30.800 --> 0:30:37.479 I was a small kid. Um um, yeah, I wouldn't, wouldn't. 0:30:37.480 --> 0:30:39.600 I wouldn't say as the leader of a gang. I 0:30:39.800 --> 0:30:45.280 probably UH had that inclination right from you know, birth, 0:30:45.440 --> 0:30:49.680 to be more of the sideman or the guy you know, 0:30:50.160 --> 0:30:53.000 off the side or behind the guy. You know. I 0:30:53.320 --> 0:30:59.520 don't remember very often, uh being the leader of the gang. 0:31:00.560 --> 0:31:02.560 Once in a while, I find myself in that position. 0:31:03.160 --> 0:31:07.800 I remember after seeing the West Side Story movie. Uh, 0:31:08.800 --> 0:31:13.880 we started having gangs in in suburban junior high school. 0:31:13.920 --> 0:31:16.360 I guess it was let we see one of that 0:31:16.480 --> 0:31:19.880 fifty seven fifty nine when that movie was like six one, 0:31:19.960 --> 0:31:23.800 early sixties, right, Yeah, So I'm like cannon whatever whatever, 0:31:23.960 --> 0:31:26.920 whatever grade you're in, the ten eleven and I remember, 0:31:28.800 --> 0:31:31.120 I remember I did start that gang. And and and 0:31:31.360 --> 0:31:37.640 and during a lunchtime or whenever people went outside recessed, Uh, 0:31:37.960 --> 0:31:41.960 we would we would have knife fights with with pens, 0:31:42.720 --> 0:31:44.640 and we would write on each other, you know, whoever 0:31:44.720 --> 0:31:49.960 wrote the most on each other, you know one and uh, 0:31:50.160 --> 0:31:51.840 and I was. I was the leader of that one. 0:31:52.080 --> 0:31:54.240 And of course we got busted and getting that a 0:31:54.280 --> 0:31:58.400 lot of trouble, Uh, but other than that, you know, 0:31:58.560 --> 0:32:00.200 I was kind of one of the guys. You know, 0:32:01.120 --> 0:32:04.280 my my neighbors were older. My one of my best 0:32:04.360 --> 0:32:08.680 friends lived behind me was a year older. So um, 0:32:09.120 --> 0:32:11.680 you know, the older guys always would be the more 0:32:11.680 --> 0:32:17.760 of the leaders in any situation. And I don't know, 0:32:17.880 --> 0:32:19.720 I just was like a lost little kid, kind of 0:32:19.880 --> 0:32:23.480 just waiting for destiny to speak. I remember hating being 0:32:23.520 --> 0:32:26.960 a kid. I do remember that distinctly. I wanted to 0:32:27.080 --> 0:32:31.120 grow up and get on with it. And and then, 0:32:31.440 --> 0:32:38.640 you know, uh, thirteen years old and uh, Kennedy gets 0:32:38.640 --> 0:32:46.240 shot on my thirteenth birthday, your birthday, November, And uh okay, 0:32:46.280 --> 0:32:50.120 well let's go back to November, your thirteen. I certainly 0:32:50.160 --> 0:32:52.680 remember that day. Did you have plans to have a 0:32:52.760 --> 0:32:59.160 celebration party? Yeah? Yeah, and uh, you know, to show 0:32:59.200 --> 0:33:02.719 you how politically where I was back then, that's all 0:33:02.800 --> 0:33:04.680 I was concerned with. It was like, you know, the 0:33:04.800 --> 0:33:12.640 party gonna happen or not, you know, yeah, but soon 0:33:12.920 --> 0:33:16.480 just after that, right, just four months later, you know, 0:33:16.600 --> 0:33:19.040 the big bang. Okay, wait, wait, wait, let's not get 0:33:19.080 --> 0:33:23.320 there for a seconds. Hey, good student, mediocre student, bad student. 0:33:24.080 --> 0:33:27.800 I was a good student, very good. Ever thought of 0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:30.880 you know, going through college, what your parents say, did 0:33:30.960 --> 0:33:32.800 you miss you know what we are your thoughts there? 0:33:33.120 --> 0:33:35.480 It was, it was a thought. My parents wanted me 0:33:35.640 --> 0:33:39.080 very much to go to college. Um. I had a 0:33:39.200 --> 0:33:44.560 couple of advanced classes in fact heading that way, like calculus, 0:33:45.080 --> 0:33:50.240 believe it, and physics and the certain kinds of physics 0:33:50.320 --> 0:33:54.160 classes and a couple of couple of different things. Yeah. Um. 0:33:55.640 --> 0:33:59.680 Uh so at that point, you know, you're trying to 0:33:59.720 --> 0:34:05.280 find in the normal route into society. I thought it 0:34:05.360 --> 0:34:08.879 was gonna be college. Yeah. Okay, but let's go back 0:34:08.920 --> 0:34:13.160 to the earlier days. Beatles are in sixty four. Did 0:34:13.239 --> 0:34:16.400 you have a transistor? Were you a sports kid? Listened 0:34:16.400 --> 0:34:22.440 to the sports? Um, not big on sports, No, but 0:34:22.560 --> 0:34:26.239 you had a transistory, remember getting a transistory? Yeah yeah, yeah, Yeah, 0:34:26.440 --> 0:34:29.719 that's how I heard the Beatles. Okay, you listening Were 0:34:29.760 --> 0:34:33.080 you listening to you know, this is all New York radio, 0:34:33.400 --> 0:34:37.000 w m C A, w ABC Tentendons. Were you listening 0:34:37.080 --> 0:34:42.360 to those before the Beatles? Oh? Yeah. We had great 0:34:42.520 --> 0:34:49.359 radio all along, all along, uh fifties into the early sixties. Uh. 0:34:50.200 --> 0:34:53.200 The radio was was terrific. We were much luckier than 0:34:53.280 --> 0:34:57.840 our than our British brothers and sisters who uh literally 0:34:58.120 --> 0:35:02.840 had nothing until until until Pirates, you know until okay, 0:35:02.880 --> 0:35:05.440 but when but you were listening, you were an active 0:35:05.840 --> 0:35:10.320 music listener before the Beatles. Yeah, I I bought a 0:35:10.440 --> 0:35:13.279 couple of dozen singles. You know, I remember what some 0:35:13.360 --> 0:35:16.719 of those were? Oh yeah, yeah, first was Tears on 0:35:16.880 --> 0:35:22.440 My Pillow, Little Anthony, the imperials um Uh. Poison Ivy 0:35:22.560 --> 0:35:24.400 was given to me by my aunt because I had 0:35:24.440 --> 0:35:31.640 poison ivy. I bought, you know, uh Sherry. Uh. Mid 0:35:31.760 --> 0:35:35.360 four Seasons were huge, Twist and Shop by the Isley Brothers, 0:35:35.800 --> 0:35:41.560 Palisades Park, A Little Prittle, Angelis, Duke of Earl, you 0:35:41.640 --> 0:35:47.319 know you casting down? Uh you know those those were 0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:52.640 those were just uh really really great great singles. Willie 0:35:52.680 --> 0:35:56.359 Still Love Me Tomorrow, the Rills? How about the Beach 0:35:56.400 --> 0:35:58.640 Boys in any West Coast stuff? You know, I didn't. 0:35:58.680 --> 0:36:00.840 I didn't. I didn't really like the Beach Boys for 0:36:00.960 --> 0:36:03.600 the West Coast stuff. Now, No, I didn't. I didn't 0:36:03.640 --> 0:36:09.400 get that whole thing. There's something, uh, you know, I 0:36:09.480 --> 0:36:11.840 don't know. I don't know what it was. The college, 0:36:12.640 --> 0:36:14.920 even though I thought of going to college, but the 0:36:14.960 --> 0:36:19.280 whole fraternity vibe of them with the letters on the sweater, 0:36:19.440 --> 0:36:21.200 and there was something that was just to turn off 0:36:21.360 --> 0:36:26.320 to make that at that stage, you know. Um, I 0:36:26.360 --> 0:36:28.320 mean that's why the Beatles was so shocking. It was 0:36:29.239 --> 0:36:32.360 it was, it was, it was shockingly contemporary, you know. 0:36:32.960 --> 0:36:35.040 I mean, and even the Four Seasons, which is the 0:36:35.120 --> 0:36:37.879 other group that survived the Beatles, and then the only 0:36:37.920 --> 0:36:40.560 two that did, you know, is the Beach Toys in 0:36:40.600 --> 0:36:44.080 the fourth Theasters, and of course the Motown and Soul stuff. 0:36:44.200 --> 0:36:47.560 But but the Four Seasons you know again, you know, 0:36:47.680 --> 0:36:49.840 they looked like your Italian uncles. I mean, you know, 0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:54.320 you love them. You love the records, I mean various records, 0:36:54.400 --> 0:36:56.880 among the greatest records of ad. I mean, you know, 0:36:57.160 --> 0:37:01.359 one one phenomenal thing after the other. Sherry Big Girls 0:37:01.440 --> 0:37:04.920 will Cry, walked like a man, big man in town, 0:37:06.000 --> 0:37:10.320 Ronnie rag Dolls, rag Dolls, I get it, you know, 0:37:11.080 --> 0:37:16.800 Marlena Candy Girl. Let mean, you know, phenomenal stuff, phenomenal stuff. 0:37:17.160 --> 0:37:20.200 But you know, you didn't really, you know, you didn't wanna. 0:37:21.480 --> 0:37:23.759 I didn't want to be them, you know whatever, for 0:37:23.760 --> 0:37:27.800 whatever reason, you know, And and it was it was 0:37:27.880 --> 0:37:32.160 the British invasion that just okay, you know, So when 0:37:32.320 --> 0:37:37.640 did you personally first hear the Beatles. I was in 0:37:37.800 --> 0:37:41.920 bed under the coverage with my transistor radio, and I 0:37:41.960 --> 0:37:45.520 remember my brother would listen also, he was in the 0:37:45.600 --> 0:37:50.120 next bed. We're both in the same room and older, younger, younger. 0:37:50.200 --> 0:37:54.840 He's seven years younger. Uh because uh, you know, my 0:37:54.920 --> 0:37:59.440 mother remarried when I was seven, and that's how I 0:37:59.480 --> 0:38:02.520 got and that's how an Italian kid gets a Dutch name. 0:38:03.200 --> 0:38:05.360 And so I had a I had a brother and 0:38:05.440 --> 0:38:09.400 sister that came along at that point. But I remember, 0:38:10.400 --> 0:38:14.880 like it was yesterday. They you know, you're digging whatever's 0:38:14.960 --> 0:38:17.920 on the radio, and that's all great. I want to 0:38:18.000 --> 0:38:21.399 hold your hand. Comes on and they hit the high 0:38:21.480 --> 0:38:29.480 note and me and my brother burst out laughing just spontaneously, 0:38:29.640 --> 0:38:33.879 you know, and I and I you know, and I've 0:38:33.920 --> 0:38:38.200 been analyzing that ever since, you know, which it comes 0:38:38.239 --> 0:38:42.560 down to. The Bells had just hit on something remarkable 0:38:42.680 --> 0:38:47.920 that obviously came from the fifties, came from all the 0:38:48.960 --> 0:38:53.320 the do Op and certainly Everly Brothers and and everybody 0:38:53.360 --> 0:38:55.960 else and Roy Orbison and all all of them. But 0:38:56.080 --> 0:38:58.759 but but they had taken it to some new level 0:39:00.400 --> 0:39:06.840 and communicated just unbridled joy somehow there was some something 0:39:07.760 --> 0:39:11.360 joyous in in that in in their music that was 0:39:12.600 --> 0:39:16.839 uh new. It was just new and unexplainable really uh 0:39:18.200 --> 0:39:23.360 and man, it was just like, uh, just a you know, 0:39:23.560 --> 0:39:29.120 just a volcano. You know. The culture was just transformed 0:39:29.440 --> 0:39:33.200 overnight completely. Okay, So the record I Want to Hold 0:39:33.239 --> 0:39:35.640 Your Hand forget the stuff on VJ before because we 0:39:35.680 --> 0:39:38.200 didn't know about it then. So I Want to Hold 0:39:38.239 --> 0:39:40.240 You And it's actually released at the end of December, 0:39:40.320 --> 0:39:43.560 but literally after the first of the year. It's gigantic. 0:39:44.160 --> 0:39:47.320 Beatles are not on until February. Did you buy the single? 0:39:47.400 --> 0:39:49.279 And then there was She Loves You Would All Get You. 0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:52.120 On the end there was Meet the Beatles. How active 0:39:52.200 --> 0:39:54.840 were you before they were on? Ed Sullivan? Yeah, no, no, 0:39:55.160 --> 0:39:58.279 uh very Uh. That was the first. That was the 0:39:58.320 --> 0:40:01.680 first album I ever bought, which we thought was the first. 0:40:01.760 --> 0:40:03.439 We thought was their first album. Of course it turns 0:40:03.480 --> 0:40:07.600 out to be their second, right, Um, but but that 0:40:07.800 --> 0:40:09.880 was my album buying, you know. That was the beginning 0:40:09.880 --> 0:40:15.160 of album buying for me. Uh. And then and then yeah, 0:40:15.280 --> 0:40:18.840 whatever you could find at that point, they you know, VJ, 0:40:19.200 --> 0:40:25.239 the Swan something was on Swan you know uh and 0:40:25.600 --> 0:40:30.040 uh and actually their first album kind of snuck out 0:40:30.080 --> 0:40:33.120 there and on some maybe on DJ, also on j 0:40:33.360 --> 0:40:38.520 R introducing the Beatles. Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh. We couldn't 0:40:38.520 --> 0:40:41.440 get enough. We couldn't we could not get enough. I mean, 0:40:42.000 --> 0:40:47.279 there's never been a sonic takeover like like that, like that, 0:40:47.480 --> 0:40:50.600 I mean, as everybody knows. I'm sure you know, by 0:40:50.680 --> 0:40:55.560 April they had the top five singles, uh, and another 0:40:56.400 --> 0:40:59.439 fifteen or twenty on the charts at the same time, 0:40:59.560 --> 0:41:04.720 you know, but the top five singles, uh yeah, nobody 0:41:04.760 --> 0:41:08.440 want to hear anything else. I mean, but you know, 0:41:08.520 --> 0:41:11.439 but soon there would be other British invaders that would 0:41:12.280 --> 0:41:16.200 do quite well. They've five We're right on their heels, 0:41:16.280 --> 0:41:19.760 and and and and glad all over with would replace 0:41:20.080 --> 0:41:23.440 uh uh one of one of them on one of 0:41:23.480 --> 0:41:26.560 the Beatles songs, and then you know it's just one 0:41:26.640 --> 0:41:31.000 one after the other. Hermit's, Hermits, the animals, and then 0:41:31.040 --> 0:41:35.520 you know, stones, yard birds. Okay, so I certainly remember 0:41:35.560 --> 0:41:39.080 this era before the Beatles was a folk era. Every 0:41:39.200 --> 0:41:43.000 household had a nylon string guitar. People would play a 0:41:43.040 --> 0:41:47.560 few chords. The Beatles hit overnight, people are growing there 0:41:47.640 --> 0:41:52.840 here and getting guitars. What was going on with you? No, no, no, no, 0:41:53.239 --> 0:41:58.400 you're not exaggerating. I mean literally, February eight, nobody had 0:41:58.440 --> 0:42:01.640 a band. You didn't see band. You know, the four 0:42:01.760 --> 0:42:06.080 or five guys singing and playing didn't exist. You know. Uh, 0:42:07.040 --> 0:42:08.640 you went to your high school dance. It was an 0:42:08.680 --> 0:42:13.960 instrumental band, alright. So February nine, they played this variety 0:42:14.040 --> 0:42:18.080 show that the whole family watched on Sunday nights. February 0:42:18.160 --> 0:42:20.960 tent everybody had a band in the garage, and I 0:42:21.120 --> 0:42:24.520 am telling you everybody you know it. It changed the 0:42:24.600 --> 0:42:30.200 culture overnight and it would continue really throughout the entire sixties. 0:42:31.160 --> 0:42:33.560 When you went out at night and had to have fun. 0:42:33.760 --> 0:42:35.839 I mean you might go to driving Okay, to see 0:42:35.840 --> 0:42:38.359 a movie. Other than that, you went out to see 0:42:38.360 --> 0:42:41.400 a band, or in my case, you will actually be 0:42:41.480 --> 0:42:45.400 playing in a band. But bands took over the culture 0:42:45.520 --> 0:42:49.959 after that, Uh, in a really you know, fun positive way. 0:42:50.640 --> 0:42:52.160 That was all you did. I mean there was no 0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:57.000 one through remind your younger younger listeners. Uh, there was 0:42:57.080 --> 0:43:00.239 no internet or cell phones or video games or you know, 0:43:00.480 --> 0:43:04.520 there wasn't a lot of distractions. We did have a 0:43:04.800 --> 0:43:09.840 good six seven, eight, fantastic rock and roll TV shows 0:43:09.880 --> 0:43:12.319 on in those days for about a year and a half, 0:43:13.040 --> 0:43:16.920 which I think looking back was quite remarkable. But mostly, 0:43:17.800 --> 0:43:21.280 you know, it was radio and going out and seeing 0:43:21.360 --> 0:43:26.480 bands and so um the the you know you. We 0:43:26.560 --> 0:43:29.800 were just so lucky to be that generation because that 0:43:29.960 --> 0:43:33.640 meant there were lots of places to play. And I 0:43:33.719 --> 0:43:36.399 mean right through high school we were booked all the time. 0:43:37.560 --> 0:43:42.759 Uh and uh, how did you did you have play 0:43:42.800 --> 0:43:45.680 any instrument prior to the Beatles? How did you pick 0:43:45.800 --> 0:43:48.360 up the guitar? And how did you form a band? No, 0:43:48.560 --> 0:43:50.720 my first two bands I was I was the lead singer, 0:43:51.640 --> 0:43:53.399 so I didn't learn how to play guitar for about 0:43:53.400 --> 0:43:56.279 a year or two. But I started early, just before 0:43:56.320 --> 0:44:00.239 the Beatles hit. My grandfather, from my Italian grand father 0:44:00.360 --> 0:44:04.400 from from you know, my mother's father, who was from Calabria, 0:44:05.040 --> 0:44:08.920 showed me the song of his village, a little melody 0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:13.319 that was just uh. I guess every every town had 0:44:13.400 --> 0:44:17.560 their little theme song. I guess. Uh, So he he 0:44:17.680 --> 0:44:20.239 was showing me that. I and I wasn't you know, 0:44:20.560 --> 0:44:24.080 crazy about playing guitar as much as I wanted to 0:44:24.160 --> 0:44:26.160 spend time with my grandfather. Tell you truth, you know 0:44:26.200 --> 0:44:28.600 what I mean. It was that kind of thing. Um, 0:44:29.320 --> 0:44:31.719 but I got like a I don't know, six month 0:44:31.800 --> 0:44:36.680 head start before everybody else but guitars, and then UM 0:44:38.360 --> 0:44:41.840 sixty four, you know, right in the sixty five. I 0:44:42.160 --> 0:44:47.360 didn't really UM start for my my my, my main band, 0:44:47.920 --> 0:44:51.839 the Source, uh started in sixties six, at which point 0:44:51.880 --> 0:44:55.279 I'm playing lead guitar. So it took me. Uh, it 0:44:55.360 --> 0:45:06.720 took me a couple of years, I guess to get there. Okay, 0:45:06.800 --> 0:45:09.720 a lot of people from that era, and you've certainly 0:45:09.760 --> 0:45:11.919 met all of them. I've certainly met some of them. 0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:16.680 They're not really that talkative. Their personality is so much, 0:45:16.920 --> 0:45:19.359 but they get on stage, they light up, the music 0:45:19.440 --> 0:45:22.600 speaks through them, and their whole life opens up. The 0:45:22.719 --> 0:45:25.280 girls all on them. So you're now the lead singer 0:45:25.320 --> 0:45:27.160 of a band, then the lead guitarist of band. How 0:45:27.200 --> 0:45:34.840 does your life change? You know? What was really uh funny, ironic? 0:45:35.040 --> 0:45:38.080 I don't know. You know, we're watching Hard Day's Night, 0:45:38.880 --> 0:45:43.520 you know, which is just the uh you know, primer, primer. 0:45:43.680 --> 0:45:45.960 How do you say that for how to be in 0:45:46.000 --> 0:45:49.799 a rock and roll you know? You you hope UM 0:45:50.760 --> 0:45:56.000 and the girls did not like us who were in 0:45:56.080 --> 0:46:01.239 a band. It was first of all, the whole rock 0:46:01.400 --> 0:46:05.880 star concept at that point was English. You know you 0:46:06.480 --> 0:46:10.040 if you weren't English, you were kind of irrelevant. And 0:46:10.480 --> 0:46:14.640 and in our in our area, in our school, the 0:46:14.760 --> 0:46:18.040 girls still like the football players, you know. And uh, 0:46:19.840 --> 0:46:22.040 you were just kind of freaky. To be honest, it 0:46:22.239 --> 0:46:25.200 wasn't It wasn't like you were cool to be in 0:46:25.239 --> 0:46:29.480 a band in the sixties. It was more freaking a 0:46:29.600 --> 0:46:34.080 freakiness about you, uh, because it was it wasn't a 0:46:34.120 --> 0:46:37.880 business phill seventies, first of all. And before that, like 0:46:38.000 --> 0:46:40.040 I said, it was this kind of a British thing. 0:46:40.120 --> 0:46:43.520 They just kind of owned it. So you were just, 0:46:43.800 --> 0:46:46.280 I don't know, some kind of want to be I guess, 0:46:46.800 --> 0:46:50.720 or something but not considered cool or something that girls 0:46:51.400 --> 0:46:56.279 desired certainly, you know. Uh, you know, so your life 0:46:56.320 --> 0:47:01.560 doesn't really change other than my life taking on a 0:47:01.680 --> 0:47:04.719 bit of a purpose, which which was a big, you know, 0:47:04.800 --> 0:47:06.879 a big thing for a kid. Man. You know, you're looking, 0:47:07.560 --> 0:47:10.120 You're looking, You're wondering, you know, where are you going 0:47:10.200 --> 0:47:12.440 in this world? Man? And I'm telling you right now, 0:47:12.480 --> 0:47:14.839 I was having a lot of problems trying to sit 0:47:14.920 --> 0:47:19.040 in trying to think of where I fit in before 0:47:19.080 --> 0:47:22.520 the Beatles hit, and then I always tie it together. 0:47:22.640 --> 0:47:25.840 And then four months later the Wronging Stones came. So 0:47:25.960 --> 0:47:28.759 it's always have been a fifty fifty thing for me. Um, 0:47:30.040 --> 0:47:32.920 you know, because the Beatles were just you know, yes, 0:47:33.000 --> 0:47:35.359 they revealed the new world, but they were just way 0:47:35.440 --> 0:47:37.880 too good to think that you could do it, you know, 0:47:38.320 --> 0:47:41.160 and they this were we caught them halfway through the career. 0:47:41.719 --> 0:47:44.600 You know, they're singing together since fifty seven. They were 0:47:44.640 --> 0:47:47.799 going to sixty nine. You know, here we are there, 0:47:47.920 --> 0:47:54.440 there's phenomenal. Okay, the harmony is ridiculously perfect. The hair 0:47:54.560 --> 0:47:57.960 is perfect, the clothes, every everything's perfect. And four months 0:47:58.040 --> 0:48:01.440 later it comes to the Wrong Stones. A little more casual, 0:48:01.600 --> 0:48:05.200 a lot more casual. Uh the hair is not perfect 0:48:05.239 --> 0:48:09.920 except for Brian Jones. Uh low harmony whatsoever. You know, 0:48:10.719 --> 0:48:12.560 they made it look easier than it was. They really 0:48:12.600 --> 0:48:14.400 were at the first punk band in every sense of 0:48:14.440 --> 0:48:16.719 the word. But they made they made it may they 0:48:16.760 --> 0:48:19.400 made it look easier than it was. And uh so 0:48:19.960 --> 0:48:21.960 you know, I always say that the Beatles revealed this 0:48:22.080 --> 0:48:25.920 new world and they're only Stones invited us. And okay, 0:48:25.960 --> 0:48:29.840 now the music change versus a British invasion then, and 0:48:29.960 --> 0:48:32.480 these are not strict demarcations, but I'll throw them out 0:48:32.520 --> 0:48:34.960 there anyway. You have the folk rock of the Birds, 0:48:35.760 --> 0:48:40.120 then you have this sixties seven coming in with Jefferson Airplane, etcetera. 0:48:40.480 --> 0:48:43.360 Did you like all kinds of music? Because you remember 0:48:43.440 --> 0:48:46.320 this was on Saturday night on w ABC, they'd have 0:48:46.440 --> 0:48:51.040 wars between the Beatles and the Stones. You know, were 0:48:51.080 --> 0:48:53.960 you a fan of everything or was there certain stuff? No, 0:48:54.080 --> 0:48:56.680 I like this and I don't like that. Well, you 0:48:56.800 --> 0:48:58.759 had some of that going on. But but we were 0:48:58.920 --> 0:49:04.640 surprisingly a model culture at that point. I mean, you know, 0:49:04.960 --> 0:49:09.759 not strictly but but but very much so in a 0:49:09.880 --> 0:49:14.080 country that you know, it was the only country ever 0:49:14.640 --> 0:49:17.800 created that was not a model culture. Uh. You know, 0:49:17.880 --> 0:49:21.040 we were a culture of ideas, many of which were 0:49:21.080 --> 0:49:25.800 still trying to implement um but we but musically we 0:49:25.880 --> 0:49:28.279 were very much a model culture. And and like you say, 0:49:29.760 --> 0:49:32.880 the trends went year by year in those days and 0:49:33.040 --> 0:49:35.880 pretty much followed by everybody, you know, which was a 0:49:35.960 --> 0:49:38.040 great education because you know, you pick up a little 0:49:38.040 --> 0:49:39.360 bit of this, pick up a little bit of that. 0:49:39.880 --> 0:49:43.040 Some people stayed in that in that certain mode. I 0:49:43.080 --> 0:49:46.359 mean sixty four British of Rage, sixty five folk rock, 0:49:46.880 --> 0:49:51.319 sixty six, Blues rock sixty seven, Psychedelics, sixty eight country Rocks, 0:49:51.600 --> 0:49:55.480 and then sixty nine the Southern the Southern white gospel 0:49:56.000 --> 0:49:59.560 blues thing with Glania Bonni and all the rest. Uh. 0:50:00.160 --> 0:50:02.480 And you kind of went from trend to trend, and 0:50:02.560 --> 0:50:07.439 everybody did um right up until seventies, at which point 0:50:07.960 --> 0:50:12.960 it did fragment and uh and become hybrids after that. Um. 0:50:13.719 --> 0:50:16.400 But but you kind of kind of you tended to 0:50:16.520 --> 0:50:19.520 like everything. I mean, there any moments where yeah, you know, 0:50:19.600 --> 0:50:23.879 it might have a Beatles versus Stones discussion or um, 0:50:24.280 --> 0:50:27.600 you know, Jeff Beck group versus led Zeppelin discussion you know, 0:50:28.120 --> 0:50:33.000 later on. Uh, but you tended to kind of like everything. 0:50:33.239 --> 0:50:35.960 I mean, those those those who's better than who we 0:50:36.040 --> 0:50:39.320 were kind of phony arguments to begin with. Okay, you 0:50:39.400 --> 0:50:42.640 bring up a couple of things. Who's the best guitarist 0:50:42.640 --> 0:50:49.399 to ever according to you? Well, there's two, Uh, there's 0:50:49.440 --> 0:50:53.839 sort of two errors of guitar. Uh. There's the sixties era, 0:50:55.000 --> 0:50:58.399 which there's no doubt about. I don't think anybody would 0:50:58.400 --> 0:51:01.759 disagree that Jimi Hendrix was the greatest guitar player that 0:51:01.920 --> 0:51:08.479 ever lived. Um, the sixties guy that ended up still 0:51:08.600 --> 0:51:11.359 blowing minds is Jeff Beck. Now you go see Jeff 0:51:11.400 --> 0:51:14.080 Beck right now, and he will blow your mind right now, 0:51:15.480 --> 0:51:17.719 you know, And and and and never Clapton will say 0:51:17.760 --> 0:51:19.799 the same thing, and Jimmy Page will say the same thing. 0:51:20.160 --> 0:51:22.799 Last time I saw Jeff back, Jimmy Page was standing 0:51:22.880 --> 0:51:25.920 next to me and just as awestruck as I was, 0:51:26.400 --> 0:51:29.600 you know. But they all pay homage to Jimi Hendrix. 0:51:29.680 --> 0:51:32.480 He just was from another planet, you know. And then 0:51:32.560 --> 0:51:36.000 then there's a whole second era of modern guitar styles 0:51:36.760 --> 0:51:40.680 coming from the Eddie van Halen, you know, hammering. It's 0:51:40.680 --> 0:51:43.640 a whole different, whole different style which I never got into. 0:51:44.840 --> 0:51:48.520 But there's a whole there's dozens of modern show called 0:51:48.560 --> 0:51:51.240 the modern arrow guitar players that are you know, Steve 0:51:51.360 --> 0:51:55.480 I and those guys that are remarkable technically, just just 0:51:55.640 --> 0:52:00.120 beyond belief technically. But that's a whole different style that 0:52:00.239 --> 0:52:02.239 I never, I never got into. So it was for me, 0:52:02.280 --> 0:52:05.840 it was just the four amount rushmore pretty much was 0:52:06.040 --> 0:52:09.800 was was was clapped in uh back Page and Hendrix 0:52:10.400 --> 0:52:12.680 and and and in a very special place in my 0:52:12.800 --> 0:52:17.960 heart for Mike Bloomfield, who was important to me, you know, 0:52:18.480 --> 0:52:23.239 Paul Butterfield's guitar player and later form the Electric Flag. Um, 0:52:24.040 --> 0:52:27.759 but he Uh, but you know those are guys, you know, 0:52:27.920 --> 0:52:32.000 for for me. Okay, favorite Beatles album, Favorite Stones album. 0:52:33.040 --> 0:52:37.319 You know that changes every day, Um, no, no doubt 0:52:37.360 --> 0:52:40.200 about it. The most important Beatles album obviously was Sergeant 0:52:40.200 --> 0:52:42.799 Pepper's only last club band, which, Uh, I don't care 0:52:42.840 --> 0:52:47.200 how much revisionism there goes on. Yes, Revolver it was 0:52:47.320 --> 0:52:51.359 more innovative. Revolver has better songs song by song, Yes, 0:52:51.520 --> 0:52:54.239 we all agree with that. But Sergeant Pepper was the 0:52:54.320 --> 0:52:59.080 most important cultural moment that I can remember. Uh, every 0:53:00.040 --> 0:53:03.279 every story walked down the street that wherever it was 0:53:03.400 --> 0:53:07.040 June one, sixty seven, every single store was playing it, 0:53:07.360 --> 0:53:11.840 you know, every restaurant, every clothing story. You know, this 0:53:11.960 --> 0:53:16.360 is an amazing, amazing moment when all of Western culture 0:53:16.480 --> 0:53:21.360 was celebrating the same, the same piece of work. Um. Favorite, 0:53:22.239 --> 0:53:29.640 you know, my favorite Beatles album probably it's probably Helped Um. Um, 0:53:30.000 --> 0:53:34.160 that's my favorite. Seven seven Beatles songs in a row. Uh. 0:53:35.440 --> 0:53:39.320 But Harriday's Night was terrific. Beatles for Sale, terrific, you 0:53:39.400 --> 0:53:41.680 know they I like the I like the early stuff. 0:53:42.200 --> 0:53:46.480 You know, I liked it from pretty much those you know, 0:53:46.560 --> 0:53:50.759 from Hortidays night beals for sale. Help. I love that 0:53:50.880 --> 0:53:56.399 period the most Stones, Uh for me, twelve by five 0:53:58.160 --> 0:54:01.760 two of my favorite Stones albums don't exist in England, 0:54:02.160 --> 0:54:06.719 which is twelve by five and uh December children. Um 0:54:07.080 --> 0:54:09.400 that's why you know, we we we used the American 0:54:09.560 --> 0:54:12.880 Stones albums as the real thing, and of course the 0:54:13.280 --> 0:54:17.879 British Beatles albums as as the real configurations. You know. Um, 0:54:19.040 --> 0:54:21.319 but you know the record company actually did the did 0:54:21.360 --> 0:54:25.600 the right thing with Stones, uh, twelve by five for me, 0:54:26.280 --> 0:54:27.840 you know, and then then you have the second Stones, 0:54:28.680 --> 0:54:31.759 the second great Stones evera of course is the four 0:54:31.880 --> 0:54:35.200 remarkable you know, Beggar's Banquet, Let it Bleed, sticky Fingers 0:54:35.239 --> 0:54:38.400 and Exile. You know, you know, the two errors are 0:54:39.000 --> 0:54:43.160 are both amazing to me. But I but I actually 0:54:43.200 --> 0:54:47.560 I enjoyed the early stuff. I love I love the covers. 0:54:47.680 --> 0:54:51.880 I love the covers, you know, Beatles and Stones, you know, 0:54:51.960 --> 0:54:55.360 I think that's a real true measurement of greatness. And 0:54:55.600 --> 0:54:57.400 and usually it's the it's the guys who went up 0:54:57.440 --> 0:55:00.719 go on to write the best songs, just do the 0:55:00.800 --> 0:55:04.400 best cover version, and uh, I have a great respect 0:55:04.440 --> 0:55:07.360 for cover versions, and I think it's an extremely important 0:55:07.440 --> 0:55:11.640 part of rock education that many many people are skipping 0:55:11.680 --> 0:55:18.560 these days. I think two best covers who by those 0:55:18.600 --> 0:55:22.840 two bands? No, No, two best covers period. Oh jeez, 0:55:23.280 --> 0:55:25.320 that's the whole get the whole radio show on that. 0:55:26.160 --> 0:55:30.839 Um well there's you know. I I in the book, 0:55:30.880 --> 0:55:35.120 I talked about the various rules for how to make 0:55:35.160 --> 0:55:37.239 a cover song on your own and the one the 0:55:37.280 --> 0:55:40.239 one that the one to check all the boxes? Uh 0:55:40.600 --> 0:55:42.600 as the middle of Fudge you keep me hanging on, 0:55:43.840 --> 0:55:47.640 but certainly close to that is you know, Jimmy Hendricks 0:55:47.640 --> 0:55:50.240 so along to watch Tower, you know, one of the greatest. 0:55:50.320 --> 0:55:53.839 And Joe Cocker is a little health with my friends. Um, 0:55:54.760 --> 0:55:59.160 those three I think probably stand out as three and 0:55:59.320 --> 0:56:02.680 three the greatest. Let's go look. Decade later, Soft Cell 0:56:02.880 --> 0:56:06.520 read does Tainted Love and matches it with where Did 0:56:06.600 --> 0:56:09.600 Our Love Go? And I did not know the original 0:56:09.680 --> 0:56:11.880 Tainted Love? Did you? And what do you think of 0:56:11.960 --> 0:56:15.120 those two songs put together by Soft Cell? No? I 0:56:15.400 --> 0:56:19.680 I didn't know it either. Um um, I wasn't really 0:56:19.760 --> 0:56:23.239 into them that whole uh you know whatever that was 0:56:23.320 --> 0:56:27.719 called the New wave. I wasn't a big new waiver, 0:56:29.160 --> 0:56:34.640 so I didn't like the whole synthesizer MTV thing. You know. Um, 0:56:35.920 --> 0:56:38.239 they make an exception or two to the rule, but 0:56:38.640 --> 0:56:43.120 they weren't it. Okay. So one thing you say in 0:56:43.160 --> 0:56:45.080 the book, which blows my mind because I use it 0:56:45.120 --> 0:56:48.760 all the time, is we lived through the Renaissance, okay. 0:56:48.840 --> 0:56:51.160 And I tell people today when people say, oh, music 0:56:51.239 --> 0:56:53.200 today is just as good as it ever was, they said, no, 0:56:54.840 --> 0:56:57.080 we lived through the Renaissance. They had a Renaissance and 0:56:57.120 --> 0:57:00.440 painting and sculpture in England. They've been painting and sculptor since. 0:57:00.680 --> 0:57:06.080 But there was only one Renaissance. Okay. But in your 0:57:06.400 --> 0:57:08.960 book I get the impression. Well, let me just ask 0:57:08.960 --> 0:57:12.600 you straight. The Renaissance starts with the Beatles. When does 0:57:12.640 --> 0:57:20.200 it end? It's a good question, um, and arguably, uh, 0:57:20.640 --> 0:57:23.240 you could you could clock it. I mean, the full 0:57:23.480 --> 0:57:27.440 Naissance and Renaissance was you know, about twenty years, you know, 0:57:27.560 --> 0:57:30.760 fifty one to about seventy one. But you can go 0:57:30.840 --> 0:57:32.560 into the mid seventies if you you know, and I 0:57:32.640 --> 0:57:35.320 wouldn't argue too much about that, especially if you're including 0:57:35.400 --> 0:57:39.840 other arts. You know, if you're including movies, um and 0:57:40.160 --> 0:57:44.960 other you know other other other, you know, other important books, 0:57:45.280 --> 0:57:48.600 film paintings. You know, you may want to go into 0:57:48.640 --> 0:57:52.600 the seventies. The high the high point would be this 0:57:53.240 --> 0:57:57.520 sixty four to seventy one, seventy two from you know 0:57:57.680 --> 0:58:03.000 the Beatles to um either Exile on Main Street or 0:58:03.720 --> 0:58:07.760 or or the who uh what's it called? Who's Next? 0:58:07.840 --> 0:58:12.160 With the Who's Next is in seventy one, Quadraphenia in 0:58:12.400 --> 0:58:15.800 seventy three. Yeah, I see, you want to you want 0:58:15.800 --> 0:58:19.000 to include that, so you know, somewhere in there, somewhere 0:58:19.000 --> 0:58:22.880 in there, you know, um different than the rock era, 0:58:23.640 --> 0:58:26.040 which I clocked from like a rolling stone, the Kirt 0:58:26.080 --> 0:58:30.040 Coby's death almost exactly thirty years. But the renaissance for 0:58:30.280 --> 0:58:34.080 for for me was was that. Yeah, sixties into the 0:58:34.120 --> 0:58:39.240 into the seventies. Okay. Conventional wisdom is rock is dead. 0:58:39.360 --> 0:58:43.200 What do you think about that? Well, I think that's 0:58:43.280 --> 0:58:49.600 true in the industry sense of the word. However, we're 0:58:49.680 --> 0:58:53.480 still the biggest thing live and I think that that 0:58:53.600 --> 0:58:58.680 will continue to be true. It's a very important part 0:58:58.840 --> 0:59:03.960 of of the of the rock art form is live performance. 0:59:04.000 --> 0:59:07.760 It's uh, unlike any other art form in that sense. 0:59:08.040 --> 0:59:11.040 I think and we still remain I think, the biggest 0:59:11.080 --> 0:59:13.960 thing live and always will at least while while our 0:59:14.040 --> 0:59:18.640 generation is still going. Uh, we're not being replaced, unfortunately. 0:59:19.440 --> 0:59:21.400 But I'm trying to make up for that with my 0:59:21.920 --> 0:59:26.760 radio format and my music education program and and my 0:59:26.840 --> 0:59:28.520 record company and everything else I've been doing. For the 0:59:28.640 --> 0:59:31.320 last twenty five years, I've been trying to trying to 0:59:31.400 --> 0:59:37.720 preserve this endangered species called rock. Um. But it's it's 0:59:37.760 --> 0:59:40.480 it's it's not part of the industry anymore. I mean, 0:59:41.120 --> 0:59:44.200 they don't, you know, and I really piste off that 0:59:44.240 --> 0:59:47.640 they don't even bother to broadcasted on the Grammys anymore. 0:59:47.720 --> 0:59:53.640 It's it's it's really really uh enraging. You know, when 0:59:53.760 --> 0:59:56.320 we ran the world. You know, when rock ran the world, 0:59:56.640 --> 1:00:00.560 we included everybody, you know, we didn't pick them off 1:00:00.640 --> 1:00:04.080 the telecast and say, by the way, the Rock Awards 1:00:04.160 --> 1:00:06.640 went to so and so. You know, I mean, you know, 1:00:06.760 --> 1:00:12.360 it's it's this that's really wrong. But but anyway, that's 1:00:12.400 --> 1:00:15.360 just an example of how how dead it is. They 1:00:15.400 --> 1:00:19.800 don't even bother showing them under Grammys anymore. Um. And 1:00:19.920 --> 1:00:21.800 you know, the last time with rock and roll song 1:00:21.880 --> 1:00:25.640 gonna in top forty I don't even remember. You know, 1:00:25.720 --> 1:00:28.280 there's no more hit singles that are that are rocking. Okay, 1:00:28.600 --> 1:00:32.480 let's talk about rock, because there is rock and there's 1:00:32.600 --> 1:00:36.040 the active rock format. I have a theory about this. 1:00:36.600 --> 1:00:40.520 I remember when led Zeppelin was considered heavy metal and 1:00:40.800 --> 1:00:45.360 Black Sabbath was too far out. Now after Black I 1:00:45.480 --> 1:00:47.240 forget the number of years, but in terms of sound, 1:00:47.280 --> 1:00:50.200 from Black Sabbath you go to Metallica, and then from 1:00:50.280 --> 1:00:52.800 metalli you can go even further off, such that if 1:00:52.840 --> 1:00:54.600 you want to listen to what they call active rock, 1:00:54.920 --> 1:00:58.560 you have to have an education encyclopedia to get that far, 1:00:58.840 --> 1:01:02.760 because it's not really the year appealing from the beginning, 1:01:03.000 --> 1:01:04.720 whereas we grew up in in her Of course, the 1:01:04.800 --> 1:01:08.880 Beatles are definitive. They all had good voices, They wrote 1:01:08.920 --> 1:01:13.080 songs with melodies, they had choruses, their bridges. Is this 1:01:13.280 --> 1:01:16.040 just a lost art like the Mayans. Couldn't we just 1:01:16.160 --> 1:01:22.840 put that together and have hit songs again? I think, truthfully, 1:01:23.080 --> 1:01:26.360 I think all that went to Nashville, you know it 1:01:26.520 --> 1:01:30.840 kind of it still exists there, right, I mean, you know, 1:01:31.920 --> 1:01:34.880 I gotta I got a second format on serious satellite 1:01:35.040 --> 1:01:41.320 called well Country, and that resembles the old rock world 1:01:41.640 --> 1:01:45.760 more than the modern rock world resembles the old rock world. 1:01:45.880 --> 1:01:47.560 I think, you know, I think all that went to 1:01:48.080 --> 1:01:52.000 went the country music. Uh, you know, so I'm glad 1:01:52.040 --> 1:01:56.360 it exists somewhere. But other than that, yeah, it's a 1:01:56.520 --> 1:01:59.720 it's a very different Uh, it's a very different pop 1:01:59.760 --> 1:02:03.440 war now. And uh and uh, I'm not sure there 1:02:03.560 --> 1:02:06.240 is a rock world really, you know. Yeah, there's a 1:02:06.560 --> 1:02:08.840 heavy a heart, the hard stuff. Yeah, the hard stuff 1:02:08.840 --> 1:02:13.640 still exists, but they they've gotten that's become almost an 1:02:13.720 --> 1:02:16.440 intellectual part of the art form, you know, in a 1:02:16.520 --> 1:02:22.920 funny way. Uh. My friend, uh, my friend Max Weinberg's 1:02:23.120 --> 1:02:26.600 son Jay wasn't one of those bands. And and uh 1:02:27.000 --> 1:02:30.240 and then early and one of his early heavy metal bands. 1:02:30.240 --> 1:02:34.680 I went to see them and and and it was 1:02:34.840 --> 1:02:40.000 extraordinarily complex. I mean it was it was like Bebop 1:02:40.760 --> 1:02:48.240 times on steroids. I mean, very complex musically, a very 1:02:48.360 --> 1:02:53.640 high level of of of technical proficiency. They go all 1:02:53.760 --> 1:02:55.640 over the place, and they all stopped together. And I 1:02:55.760 --> 1:02:59.480 was like, how did they possibly stopped together at that moment? 1:03:00.600 --> 1:03:04.920 I can't, I couldn't. I couldn't understand it. I couldn't 1:03:05.080 --> 1:03:08.720 analyze it. It was so complicated, you know, so it's 1:03:08.760 --> 1:03:12.640 become almost uh an intellectual uh you know, in a 1:03:12.720 --> 1:03:16.360 funny way, an intellectual pursuit. You know, it appeals to 1:03:16.520 --> 1:03:21.000 an intellect as much as the venting of frustration, which 1:03:21.080 --> 1:03:24.240 is how we mostly associate with with with hard rock. 1:03:24.840 --> 1:03:28.360 There's something there's a whole another level of technical uh 1:03:29.560 --> 1:03:32.200 you know, expertise going on with that, with that world. 1:03:33.360 --> 1:03:34.920 But I don't, you know, I don't of course I 1:03:34.960 --> 1:03:38.320 don't relate to it directly. But you know, those rooms 1:03:38.360 --> 1:03:41.360 for everybody, and you know, God blessed. But but uh, 1:03:41.760 --> 1:03:43.880 you know, but as far as the stuff that we 1:03:44.000 --> 1:03:46.560 grew up with, you know, you gotta, you gotta, you 1:03:46.640 --> 1:03:48.680 gotta listen to my radio station if you want to 1:03:48.720 --> 1:03:52.320 hear that. Okay, was it in your book where you 1:03:52.560 --> 1:04:01.480 pooh pooed Americana? Um? No um they started. I think 1:04:01.520 --> 1:04:07.240 that that format started um trying to copy an idea 1:04:07.320 --> 1:04:10.760 I had. I didn't really, I didn't put it down. 1:04:11.760 --> 1:04:16.720 It's it's it's fine. But I was discussing what became 1:04:16.800 --> 1:04:20.640 out Wall Country with somebody in Nashville who had a 1:04:20.680 --> 1:04:25.960 discussion with the guy who started Americana. It was very 1:04:26.320 --> 1:04:31.480 either extraordinarily coincidental or I think it came from that discussion. 1:04:32.240 --> 1:04:35.000 And he didn't do exactly my format. He didn't do this, 1:04:35.120 --> 1:04:37.240 He didn't do the format exactly as I described it. 1:04:37.720 --> 1:04:40.760 But it was closed, and so I didn't. I don't 1:04:40.760 --> 1:04:43.560 think I put it down, you know. Okay, you know 1:04:43.600 --> 1:04:46.200 I read so much as I said. It wasn't abviously sure, Okay. 1:04:47.120 --> 1:04:50.200 One of the times I saw Tom Petty before he died, 1:04:50.880 --> 1:04:55.240 he played a week at the fond Uh and he 1:04:55.280 --> 1:04:57.240 played I won a couple of nights. They played different 1:04:57.280 --> 1:05:00.880 songs and he played an old country song he called 1:05:01.120 --> 1:05:06.080 country music today rock of the seventies. Okay. Now, on 1:05:06.200 --> 1:05:09.240 one hand, we have those people. Another hand, the most 1:05:09.400 --> 1:05:14.960 respected artist in Nashville is Chris Stapleton, who is great 1:05:15.360 --> 1:05:19.280 on Eddie front. So do you pay attention to that scene? 1:05:19.720 --> 1:05:23.280 Do you have thoughts about that scene? Yeah? They You know, 1:05:23.480 --> 1:05:25.280 I don't. I don't pay as much attention as I 1:05:25.320 --> 1:05:27.360 should because it is it is one of my formats. 1:05:27.480 --> 1:05:31.600 But we we championed the new artists, just like we 1:05:31.720 --> 1:05:35.680 do on the rock side. And so I think there 1:05:35.800 --> 1:05:38.680 was a very very healthy scene there and and uh 1:05:39.320 --> 1:05:41.479 and I agree, and I like I we talked about 1:05:41.480 --> 1:05:43.959 this in a minute ago. I think I think most 1:05:44.000 --> 1:05:48.800 of what you were describing as as melodic, interesting chord 1:05:48.920 --> 1:05:54.440 changes and melodies and and and artists expressing themselves now 1:05:54.600 --> 1:05:58.680 lives in country music and initial you know, the you 1:05:58.760 --> 1:06:03.479 know Staple or the Jason Is Bells and whoever else 1:06:03.600 --> 1:06:06.880 you know, the uh they you know, and and I 1:06:07.000 --> 1:06:10.960 think that's that's a healthy thing, you know. We you know, 1:06:11.320 --> 1:06:14.480 the outlaw country format is all three generations of Hank Williams, 1:06:15.040 --> 1:06:18.880 you know, because uh, you know, once once, uh, a 1:06:18.960 --> 1:06:21.000 friend of mine told me that they weren't playing Johnny 1:06:21.040 --> 1:06:23.960 Cash in country radio anymore. I'm like, well, then it's 1:06:24.000 --> 1:06:27.040 time for a new format. I'm sorry. You know. That's 1:06:27.080 --> 1:06:29.440 one of the reasons why I started it, to make 1:06:29.480 --> 1:06:34.920 sure that were you aware of country music in that period? Yeah, yeah, um, 1:06:35.760 --> 1:06:39.800 you know, not again not living it, but aware of it, 1:06:40.040 --> 1:06:43.640 you know. And uh, and I just I liked a 1:06:43.680 --> 1:06:46.240 lot of that generation, you know. I like Merl Haggard, 1:06:46.320 --> 1:06:50.640 you know, in spite of his you know, yeah, and 1:06:51.640 --> 1:06:56.640 me being a hippie, you know exactly. I love Johnny 1:06:56.720 --> 1:07:00.440 Cash and and uh, you know, and and a back 1:07:00.560 --> 1:07:03.400 way back to Hank Williams and and uh and uh 1:07:04.160 --> 1:07:06.760 you know the Outlaws, you know, Christis Stofferson and Willan 1:07:06.880 --> 1:07:11.040 and Willie Jennings. You know. Uh I like that generation 1:07:11.280 --> 1:07:14.120 a lot. They just uh there was just something cool 1:07:14.160 --> 1:07:17.200 about them. Okay, So Crossby Stools and Nash comes out 1:07:17.240 --> 1:07:19.560 in sixty nine, we have the Eagles. In seventy two, 1:07:19.960 --> 1:07:22.440 we have Sweetheart of the Rodeo and sixty eight. Was 1:07:22.600 --> 1:07:27.440 that a sound that appealed to you not? Oh yeah, definitely. 1:07:27.760 --> 1:07:29.760 We Well, like I said, we were, we were. We 1:07:29.880 --> 1:07:32.120 were following the trends in those days. And I think, 1:07:32.240 --> 1:07:35.600 and I say we, I think that's true about everybody. 1:07:35.680 --> 1:07:40.080 We were all following those trends. And uh, country rock, 1:07:40.480 --> 1:07:44.280 Um it was big man, I was. I was. You know, 1:07:44.760 --> 1:07:52.480 I'm still huge fan of Young Bloods, Buffalo Springfield, Uh Birds, 1:07:52.520 --> 1:07:57.120 Find Burrito Brothers. Uh, we'll be great. You know these 1:07:57.160 --> 1:08:00.920 are country. This is country music for you know, country rock, 1:08:02.040 --> 1:08:06.120 and uh yeah, I'm a big, big fan of it. Yes, Okay, 1:08:06.160 --> 1:08:09.240 So let's talk about turning this decade sixties and seventies. 1:08:09.600 --> 1:08:12.240 You're out of high school, You're playing what do I know, 1:08:12.600 --> 1:08:14.720 like everybody else, I had a guitar, I had played 1:08:14.720 --> 1:08:18.639 I'm to my friend Mark's house. We're playing our guitars 1:08:18.680 --> 1:08:21.800 because now we're going to change keys, and I said, 1:08:21.880 --> 1:08:27.360 I'm out. You know, did you ever what has it 1:08:27.479 --> 1:08:30.599 always been hard work for you? Or did you ever 1:08:30.680 --> 1:08:32.160 fall in this side and say, wait a second, this 1:08:32.320 --> 1:08:34.400 is my groove. I can do this. I live here. 1:08:34.439 --> 1:08:42.200 I'm as good as anybody, I think. You know, you're 1:08:42.240 --> 1:08:46.000 always you're always kind of improving, you know, I don't 1:08:46.000 --> 1:08:49.840 know if I ever. I mean, once you start writing 1:08:49.960 --> 1:08:54.080 your own shows, you know, your your own records, in 1:08:54.160 --> 1:08:56.800 your own shows, obviously it's got to be. It's a 1:08:56.920 --> 1:09:00.680 it's a comfort zone because you've created it, you know. Um. 1:09:02.439 --> 1:09:05.519 But other than other than that, you're always they're always 1:09:06.479 --> 1:09:10.599 I don't know, learning looking to improve. Right, does anybody 1:09:10.680 --> 1:09:13.559 intimidate you a musician just in terms of how good 1:09:13.600 --> 1:09:16.680 they are? Um? Oh, man, there's a there's a whole 1:09:16.840 --> 1:09:23.840 you know, kar Yeah, yeah, uh, you know. I mean, 1:09:24.800 --> 1:09:27.800 it's glorious. It's just a glorious thing to witness a 1:09:27.880 --> 1:09:32.919 great greatness in any form. You know, I'm I'm attractive 1:09:32.960 --> 1:09:35.040 to greatness in anything. I agree with you. It's like 1:09:35.080 --> 1:09:37.560 when you have a great sport, guy, great guy on 1:09:38.439 --> 1:09:40.560 any of the dominance and to see them walk that 1:09:40.680 --> 1:09:43.959 line Louis Hamilton and car racing the guy on Jeopardy. 1:09:52.120 --> 1:09:54.120 So one of the big points in the book. And 1:09:54.200 --> 1:09:58.080 you really describe it well, the whole period that Bruce 1:09:58.160 --> 1:10:00.559 gets a record deal and said, you know, I guess 1:10:00.600 --> 1:10:02.639 it with John Hammond and they think it's a folk record. 1:10:02.680 --> 1:10:05.240 I remember for a long time the second album was 1:10:05.320 --> 1:10:09.000 my favorite. Second Bruce Wilde The Innocent, Okay, especially this. 1:10:09.200 --> 1:10:11.160 I saw him in the bottom line the year before 1:10:11.240 --> 1:10:14.559 and seventy three, I mean seventy four, the year before, uh, 1:10:14.840 --> 1:10:19.360 the born to run shows. But you say a couple 1:10:19.439 --> 1:10:23.120 of things. You say he was sold sold to John 1:10:23.160 --> 1:10:25.599 Hammond as a folk act, and certainly on that record 1:10:25.680 --> 1:10:29.760 the band is mixed way down. But I realized the 1:10:29.800 --> 1:10:33.840 book is about you. But hey, were you very conscious 1:10:33.880 --> 1:10:36.680 of Bruce trying to get a deal record deal of 1:10:36.720 --> 1:10:40.599 the Stravails And tell me exactly how you felt when 1:10:40.640 --> 1:10:45.680 you were left out in the initial recording situation. Um, 1:10:46.479 --> 1:10:50.400 I wasn't. Uh, I wasn't following it day day to day. 1:10:50.520 --> 1:10:53.320 But but we were very very conscious of trying to 1:10:53.479 --> 1:10:55.519 get a record deal. That's where you that's you know, 1:10:56.000 --> 1:11:00.200 that was the whole idea to get into the business. Uh. Um. 1:11:00.439 --> 1:11:01.960 And and we were, you know, we had a different 1:11:02.000 --> 1:11:05.719 band every three months, uh, you know, in that late sixties. 1:11:06.720 --> 1:11:09.639 And at some point we realized, no matter what we did, 1:11:09.960 --> 1:11:13.040 nobody's coming down from New York to discover us. And 1:11:13.080 --> 1:11:15.320 add great Park, I mean, even though it's only an 1:11:15.360 --> 1:11:18.479 hour and hour and a half away, might as well 1:11:18.520 --> 1:11:23.280 being I've been on the moon. So Bruce, being you know, smart, 1:11:24.200 --> 1:11:28.799 I saw the singer songwriter trend coming. It was happening 1:11:29.000 --> 1:11:33.200 at that moment, which was the beginning of the fragmentation 1:11:33.360 --> 1:11:35.960 at that point, you know, like I said, it was 1:11:36.120 --> 1:11:38.960 it went from singer songwriter on the left to heavy 1:11:39.000 --> 1:11:44.400 metal on the right, everything in between, um, singer songwriters. 1:11:45.200 --> 1:11:48.240 Interestingly enough, when I analyzed it, you know, I realized 1:11:48.720 --> 1:11:52.400 the difference between them and folk singers, you know, um, 1:11:53.240 --> 1:11:56.120 which is pretty much semantics. But but but but the 1:11:56.200 --> 1:12:00.760 interesting thing additionally was all the singer songwriters had hit 1:12:01.720 --> 1:12:03.640 you know, which was not the case with all the 1:12:03.680 --> 1:12:08.200 folks that you know. Uh. And I that struck me 1:12:08.280 --> 1:12:12.559 when I realized that. But anyway, Bruce kind of gets 1:12:12.640 --> 1:12:16.560 in the trojan horse of singer songwriters, and then immediately, 1:12:17.040 --> 1:12:19.880 you know, pisses everybody off by saying, I don't want 1:12:19.920 --> 1:12:22.240 to make an acoustic record, you know, I want to 1:12:22.240 --> 1:12:25.360 I want to do a band record. And John Hammond 1:12:25.439 --> 1:12:27.519 was not happy about that. His managers were not happy 1:12:27.520 --> 1:12:33.280 about that, nobody and so, um, we didn't have an 1:12:33.320 --> 1:12:36.800 existing band exactly at that moment. So he just kind 1:12:36.840 --> 1:12:40.600 of started drawing in guys from different bands and we 1:12:40.800 --> 1:12:43.559 played with and of course I was one of them, 1:12:43.680 --> 1:12:46.519 and I turned out to be just you know, one 1:12:46.600 --> 1:12:49.479 guitar player too many. I mean, they weren't happy about 1:12:49.520 --> 1:12:52.519 having a band at all, and they certainly didn't see 1:12:52.520 --> 1:12:57.040 any need for a second guitar. So I was rejected. 1:12:57.240 --> 1:13:03.479 And and uh, I guess it hit me pretty hard. 1:13:04.600 --> 1:13:09.479 I was, you know, pretty disappointed about it. Uh. And 1:13:09.600 --> 1:13:11.640 I kind of at that point I felt we had 1:13:11.720 --> 1:13:14.600 missed the boat anyway, I really did. I felt like 1:13:15.000 --> 1:13:17.639 the great stuff has all been done, you know, it's 1:13:17.720 --> 1:13:20.720 it's it's it's kind of over. And I wasn't that 1:13:20.920 --> 1:13:23.880 far wrong, by the way, but uh, you know, it 1:13:24.000 --> 1:13:27.160 just kind of felt like, you know, it's redundant from 1:13:27.200 --> 1:13:31.120 now on. And so I wasn't I wasn't you know 1:13:31.640 --> 1:13:35.080 too too depressed about it? But it was it was. 1:13:35.320 --> 1:13:38.439 It was depressing and disappointing, and I quit. I quit 1:13:38.560 --> 1:13:43.200 the business at that point, and we're construction for two years. Okay, 1:13:43.880 --> 1:13:47.840 to what degree are those two things connected? Was the 1:13:47.920 --> 1:13:50.600 fact that you weren't included in the band? Was that 1:13:50.720 --> 1:13:55.000 really what drove you to go to construction? Yeah? Because 1:13:55.040 --> 1:13:58.559 I was in debt from a previous couple of bands. 1:13:59.400 --> 1:14:01.360 We were, and we thought we were gonna be big, 1:14:01.960 --> 1:14:05.920 and I bought a big amp uh and a van 1:14:06.280 --> 1:14:08.280 to carry it around in, you know, because I thought 1:14:08.320 --> 1:14:11.120 we were gonna that was our big break, you know, 1:14:11.120 --> 1:14:13.519 a couple of bands earlier. So I was in debt 1:14:13.680 --> 1:14:14.880 and had to pay, you know how to get a 1:14:14.880 --> 1:14:17.800 straight job the first time in my life. How much 1:14:17.840 --> 1:14:21.920 did you hate it? Well? I I hated it, um, 1:14:22.080 --> 1:14:25.280 but I but I started my mind immediately began to 1:14:25.400 --> 1:14:32.720 adjust to uh, accepting this as you know, this is it, man, 1:14:32.920 --> 1:14:37.800 this is this is your life now, so adjust to it. 1:14:38.040 --> 1:14:43.320 And that was pretty good at doing that, I guess, um. 1:14:44.720 --> 1:14:51.920 But after two seasons going from you know, uh flagman 1:14:52.200 --> 1:14:56.160 on on on through two seven at six in the morning, 1:14:57.160 --> 1:15:01.800 and you know, five degree weather, go all the way 1:15:01.840 --> 1:15:07.000 to the jackhammer in a hot ninety degree summer. Um. 1:15:08.000 --> 1:15:10.720 I was playing football on the weekends and and uh, 1:15:11.000 --> 1:15:15.200 flag football, and I broke my finger, still bent and 1:15:15.520 --> 1:15:19.439 uh and to exercise my finger, I couldn't work anymore. 1:15:19.840 --> 1:15:22.800 I couldn't pick up a jackhammer. So I went to 1:15:22.840 --> 1:15:26.599 exercise my finger by joining the band playing piano. Uh. 1:15:26.680 --> 1:15:28.720 And that's how I got back into music, just by 1:15:28.880 --> 1:15:31.840 just by that weird circumstance, which is a story of 1:15:31.920 --> 1:15:35.040 my life. I mean weird circumstances definitely the story of 1:15:35.120 --> 1:15:38.600 my life, as you see in the book. And I 1:15:38.680 --> 1:15:43.320 got back anyway, So I you know, I I appreciated 1:15:43.520 --> 1:15:47.880 show business a lot more after working instruction than I 1:15:48.000 --> 1:15:51.320 did before. Let's put it that way, Okay. In the book, 1:15:51.760 --> 1:15:54.160 you ultimately go to Vegas, you go to Miami, you're 1:15:54.200 --> 1:15:59.240 working with Oldiezacs, and there's a lot of sex talk 1:15:59.360 --> 1:16:02.759 at this way, you know, and then you talk about 1:16:02.800 --> 1:16:08.519 going down south below the Mason Dixon line and having girls. Whatever. 1:16:09.160 --> 1:16:13.479 Were these things that the older musicians taught you being 1:16:13.560 --> 1:16:16.800 on the road or how did this develop? Well, it 1:16:16.880 --> 1:16:18.240 was just I wanted to give a little bit of 1:16:18.280 --> 1:16:21.479 flavor of that of that era, you know, and the 1:16:21.600 --> 1:16:27.479 seventies was just uh wide open. I mean, uh, you 1:16:27.560 --> 1:16:31.640 know this is before aids and uh and and and 1:16:31.960 --> 1:16:36.400 post women's liberation. I mean this was real women's liberation, 1:16:37.080 --> 1:16:40.680 like they would come and ask you for sex liberation, 1:16:41.520 --> 1:16:44.320 and uh, I want to give people a little bit 1:16:44.360 --> 1:16:46.240 of a flavor of that. I don't think. I don't 1:16:46.280 --> 1:16:51.960 think I overdid anything. I overdid it whatsoever. You are 1:16:52.080 --> 1:16:55.320 realistic and nobody is ever realistic. I want to hear. 1:16:55.400 --> 1:16:57.280 We have the heavy metal bands where you know it's 1:16:57.320 --> 1:17:02.160 happening seven, you know, then we have Linda Ronstad's book 1:17:02.240 --> 1:17:06.720 that's so sanitized it's like it's unreadable. Okay, So I 1:17:06.960 --> 1:17:11.280 was surprised that you were honest about it, and you 1:17:11.360 --> 1:17:13.519 know that was why it's good. I mean, there are 1:17:13.560 --> 1:17:19.280 certain people who are uh you know, Elvis iconic, looking 1:17:19.479 --> 1:17:21.880 in their stars whatever, and one knows it goes with 1:17:21.960 --> 1:17:26.519 the territory there. I mean, I know, listen, I know 1:17:26.880 --> 1:17:28.800 these people don't know. You go on the road with 1:17:28.920 --> 1:17:31.960 these people, there's always somebody much more experienced than you 1:17:32.200 --> 1:17:35.439 are who teaches you the ways of the road and 1:17:35.600 --> 1:17:38.640 what goes on and kind of coaches you along and 1:17:38.720 --> 1:17:41.639 then you ultimately pass these lessons down to the level. 1:17:41.840 --> 1:17:44.040 But if you're not a member that group, you have 1:17:44.360 --> 1:17:51.840 no idea. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. And you know, 1:17:52.000 --> 1:17:55.320 so you got some of that on on the oldies circuit. Uh, 1:17:55.520 --> 1:17:58.080 these are the needs of the guys who admited it, Okay, 1:17:58.200 --> 1:18:04.200 exactly mean it doesn't invent rock and roll. Uh. And 1:18:04.360 --> 1:18:06.679 that was and that was just fun, man, I gotta 1:18:06.760 --> 1:18:08.680 tell you the truth. You know, I was the only 1:18:08.760 --> 1:18:12.639 one having fun there because they all hated being called oldies. 1:18:13.000 --> 1:18:16.240 They put out the past there in the primary lives. Okay, 1:18:16.520 --> 1:18:20.880 these guys are you know, late thirties, early forties. If 1:18:20.960 --> 1:18:24.559 they had four hits when the Beatles hit, they did 1:18:24.600 --> 1:18:27.280 those four hits the rest of their life, you know. 1:18:27.439 --> 1:18:30.479 And it was just tragic. One of the just odd 1:18:30.880 --> 1:18:33.679 odd phenomena of our of the history of rock and roll. 1:18:34.240 --> 1:18:38.320 That first generation who invented it got put out the 1:18:38.439 --> 1:18:42.919 pasture and and and did not have a chance to evolve, 1:18:43.920 --> 1:18:47.040 uh with an audience the way every other generation did, 1:18:47.360 --> 1:18:50.920 starting with the second generation of British invasion. You know, 1:18:51.320 --> 1:18:53.519 who are the biggest acts and sixty four the Beatles 1:18:53.560 --> 1:18:56.400 and Stones who the biggest acts now the Beatles and Stones, 1:18:56.840 --> 1:19:01.080 you know, as there should be, because as they evolved, 1:19:01.320 --> 1:19:05.840 the audience evolved with them. Uh some reason that first 1:19:05.920 --> 1:19:08.640 generation just kind of got left out. And uh, and 1:19:08.720 --> 1:19:10.320 that's why one of the reasons why the minute I 1:19:10.360 --> 1:19:13.320 got in the studio, I started bringing them back, you know, 1:19:13.439 --> 1:19:16.800 out of just out of gratitude and and and wanted 1:19:16.840 --> 1:19:20.439 to show people that they're still great. Got Ronny Specter 1:19:20.600 --> 1:19:23.080 and Lee Dorsey out of retirement, Second Duke's album, We 1:19:23.439 --> 1:19:27.200 United the Coasters, Drifters and five Staturns, you know, um 1:19:29.000 --> 1:19:32.040 uh me and Bruce, Gary West Bonds, put Benny King 1:19:32.120 --> 1:19:35.160 and Chuck Jackson on that record. And uh, and of 1:19:35.200 --> 1:19:37.679 course I worked with Ronny Specter and just did Darlene 1:19:37.720 --> 1:19:41.880 Love album you know, some years a few years ago. Um. 1:19:42.760 --> 1:19:44.800 You know, at first of all, it's great to work 1:19:44.840 --> 1:19:47.679 with those people. They're different, There are different species of people. 1:19:48.240 --> 1:19:53.080 These were talented people, the real talent, you know, not tuning, 1:19:53.160 --> 1:19:58.719 the vocal talent, not editing or the vocal together talent. 1:19:59.000 --> 1:20:01.040 They had it right, got it right the first time 1:20:01.120 --> 1:20:04.160 every time. You know, They're a real thing. And so 1:20:04.640 --> 1:20:09.080 they were a joy to produce. But anyway, I was 1:20:09.120 --> 1:20:11.080 the only one. I'm really having a good time on 1:20:11.200 --> 1:20:13.960 that on the on that meeting, meeting all of those guys, 1:20:14.840 --> 1:20:17.920 and uh, it's a shame the way that worked out. Okay, 1:20:17.960 --> 1:20:19.760 so you all do we come back to Asbury Park. 1:20:20.160 --> 1:20:23.200 You formed the Jukes. First question, tell me how you 1:20:23.280 --> 1:20:28.320 played Monopoly during the set? That was? That was a 1:20:28.360 --> 1:20:31.880 different band. That's Dr Zoom in the Sonic Moom at 1:20:31.880 --> 1:20:34.960 a certain point, like I said, we had a different 1:20:34.960 --> 1:20:37.960 band every three months before the Jukes. This is quite 1:20:38.000 --> 1:20:41.479 a bit before the Jukes. Um, this is more and 1:20:41.560 --> 1:20:45.640 more like the early seventies. Uh. We became the go 1:20:45.960 --> 1:20:51.800 to opening act at our local Hullabalu club, uh Hullablue 1:20:52.280 --> 1:20:56.360 coming from the PV show. Um. And we didn't really 1:20:56.400 --> 1:20:59.160 have a band at that time, and we you know, 1:20:59.280 --> 1:21:02.600 we just kind of floundering around. So we decided to 1:21:02.640 --> 1:21:05.280 put everybody in town in the band so to get 1:21:05.320 --> 1:21:09.400 a paycheck of some kind. And that include people who 1:21:09.400 --> 1:21:15.880 didn't play instruments, so we hadn't play monopoly. We haven't 1:21:15.920 --> 1:21:20.679 play monopoly. Instead and they got there whatever ten bucks 1:21:20.760 --> 1:21:26.439 or whatever whatever whoever it was. Uh, Okay, how come 1:21:26.479 --> 1:21:29.000 when the pop gives you a deal for the Jukes, 1:21:30.320 --> 1:21:33.280 And how come you just don't stay with the Jukes? 1:21:33.360 --> 1:21:34.880 You tell the story of the book, how you tell 1:21:35.040 --> 1:21:37.920 Johnny he's got to be the front man. Why don't 1:21:37.960 --> 1:21:40.000 you say this is my thing, let me ride this 1:21:40.200 --> 1:21:43.200 all the way. Yeah, it's a it's a it's a 1:21:43.240 --> 1:21:48.120 good question. It's a good question. Um. I don't know. 1:21:48.320 --> 1:21:52.800 I felt it was limited in some ways. You know. 1:21:53.160 --> 1:21:57.920 Johnny was great in his own way and had surprised 1:21:57.960 --> 1:22:02.200 everybody by being as great as he was. Uh, you know, 1:22:02.320 --> 1:22:06.519 he just really really rose to the occasion, you know. 1:22:07.000 --> 1:22:10.960 But he wasn't Rod Stewart, you know, let's face it, anyway, 1:22:10.960 --> 1:22:17.639 he wasn't you know, Stevie Tyler or you know, Roger Daltrey. Uh, 1:22:18.200 --> 1:22:20.479 you know, he didn't. He wasn't he was. He was 1:22:20.560 --> 1:22:25.040 like a blues you know, blues guy and great in 1:22:25.160 --> 1:22:31.759 that particular sub genre. Um. But but that there's built 1:22:31.800 --> 1:22:34.479 in limitations to that. And I and I wasn't ready 1:22:34.520 --> 1:22:37.280 to be limited. I wanted to go all the way, 1:22:37.520 --> 1:22:41.200 you know. And so the horse side bet on was 1:22:41.479 --> 1:22:44.559 was Bruce Springsteen because I felt he was the one guy, 1:22:45.040 --> 1:22:48.599 the local, one local guy that could go all the way, 1:22:48.720 --> 1:22:52.320 and I just, um, I felt that about you know, 1:22:52.400 --> 1:22:55.080 we were friends a long time and uh, and that 1:22:55.160 --> 1:22:58.160 was probably the first one to think that about him, 1:22:58.200 --> 1:23:05.759 because he was extremely shy and uh, and nobody predicted 1:23:05.880 --> 1:23:09.360 him to be a success. But I saw something special 1:23:09.439 --> 1:23:13.880 in him very early that nobody else particularly saw. Um. 1:23:16.120 --> 1:23:20.040 But by that point of course, it had come kind 1:23:20.080 --> 1:23:23.519 of a roller coaster ey because he he was the 1:23:23.560 --> 1:23:27.680 first guy signed in our town, but his first two 1:23:27.720 --> 1:23:30.160 records were complete failures. He was about to be the 1:23:30.240 --> 1:23:35.439 first guy dropped in our town. Uh, you know, so, um, 1:23:37.000 --> 1:23:40.960 it wasn't it wasn't that final a decision. It wasn't 1:23:41.000 --> 1:23:44.240 like I'm leaving the Jukes and joining the East paying 1:23:44.280 --> 1:23:46.320 for the rest of my life. He only had seven 1:23:46.360 --> 1:23:51.040 gigs books, so I thought, you know, the seven gigs 1:23:51.080 --> 1:23:53.280 and probably come back to the Jukes and then let's 1:23:53.280 --> 1:23:58.640 see what we can do. You know. UH may have 1:23:58.800 --> 1:24:01.920 recorded the first album by then, but that's it's about it. 1:24:02.800 --> 1:24:06.040 So I would really start to uh become a much 1:24:06.120 --> 1:24:09.639 better songwriter, and on their second and third albums, Uh, 1:24:10.520 --> 1:24:14.559 so so they're they're future artistically wasn't really clear at 1:24:14.640 --> 1:24:18.200 that point. I just was using them to learn the 1:24:18.280 --> 1:24:21.120 craft of a record production because I really felt like 1:24:21.200 --> 1:24:23.920 I was a record producer and I wanted to learn 1:24:23.920 --> 1:24:27.240 how to do it. You know. Okay, another thing you 1:24:27.439 --> 1:24:30.800 talk about throughout the book is writing songs. How do 1:24:30.960 --> 1:24:35.760 you write a song? Well? I think what I tell 1:24:35.840 --> 1:24:39.280 people now, you know, and I do these masterclasses on songwriting, 1:24:39.320 --> 1:24:41.920 and you know, I try to say, the first of all, 1:24:41.960 --> 1:24:44.240 there's no rules. Okay, so let's keep that in mind. 1:24:44.840 --> 1:24:49.800 But I said, you know, the thing you want to 1:24:50.000 --> 1:24:53.439 try and overcome is is being stuck. You want you 1:24:53.479 --> 1:24:55.280 want to try and be want to have some momentum, 1:24:55.320 --> 1:24:58.120 and you want to try and be moving forward whether 1:24:58.280 --> 1:25:00.240 whatever you're doing, all right, you don't want to be 1:25:00.280 --> 1:25:02.680 sitting there staring at a blank piece of paper if 1:25:02.720 --> 1:25:05.160 you can help it, you know, waiting for your muse, 1:25:05.560 --> 1:25:09.960 you know, to to visit. Uh. You know, now this 1:25:10.080 --> 1:25:12.160 may be just me and my A D D. Which, 1:25:13.120 --> 1:25:15.760 as I say, I've had long before it was fashionable. 1:25:16.280 --> 1:25:18.840 So you know, I don't have any patience. So so 1:25:19.120 --> 1:25:23.360 so um I tell people, you know, first of all, right, 1:25:23.439 --> 1:25:27.559 with purpose. You should also live with purpose, by the way, 1:25:27.880 --> 1:25:31.439 but but certainly you should write with purpose. What do 1:25:31.520 --> 1:25:34.840 you want the song to do. You know, Uh, you 1:25:34.920 --> 1:25:36.920 want to make people cry and make them last and 1:25:36.960 --> 1:25:39.719 make them dance. Uh, you gonna have a hit record. 1:25:40.080 --> 1:25:43.800 You want to confess your sins, you know, decide what 1:25:44.080 --> 1:25:46.640 what do you want to the stone to do? Uh? 1:25:46.840 --> 1:25:50.720 You know, um, and then you know you can work 1:25:50.760 --> 1:25:54.320 out how how literally you want it to be. Uh, 1:25:55.040 --> 1:25:58.680 but right right down some reference lyrics saying exactly what 1:25:58.840 --> 1:26:01.800 you want to say. Don't worry about being poetic, don't 1:26:01.800 --> 1:26:06.320 worry about being cleverly metaphorical at first. Just write it 1:26:06.400 --> 1:26:08.960 straight out, and then you can go back and you 1:26:09.040 --> 1:26:11.439 can add all those things you want to disguise it. 1:26:11.600 --> 1:26:14.280 You want to, you know, make it more poetic, whatever 1:26:14.320 --> 1:26:17.320 you want to do, make it more artistically interesting. You 1:26:17.400 --> 1:26:20.240 can do that later. But the idea is to get 1:26:20.320 --> 1:26:24.120 some momentum going come up with a purpose right out. 1:26:24.160 --> 1:26:27.080 What that purpose is is clearly as as as you 1:26:27.160 --> 1:26:29.920 can you know. UM. And the other thing I use 1:26:30.120 --> 1:26:33.439 also and I teach it and I and I use 1:26:33.520 --> 1:26:35.880 it myself and I used it very much on my 1:26:36.040 --> 1:26:39.679 latest album, Summer Sorcery. Uh is you're stuck. You're writing 1:26:39.720 --> 1:26:43.479 a song for yourself right one for somebody else. Um, 1:26:43.720 --> 1:26:46.880 it's A. It's a it's the best way to to 1:26:47.320 --> 1:26:50.320 break that break up that you know, that log jam, 1:26:50.520 --> 1:26:56.439 you know, uh, because it's always more difficult to see yourself. Um, 1:26:57.360 --> 1:26:59.400 you know, you want to write a write a beach 1:26:59.439 --> 1:27:02.000 boy song, you know, write a song you can you 1:27:02.040 --> 1:27:03.720 can see the beach boys doing it. Write a wrong 1:27:03.800 --> 1:27:06.479 Stone song, or you know, whenever your favorite artist is 1:27:07.160 --> 1:27:08.960 write and write a door song. You know. You know 1:27:09.640 --> 1:27:14.200 now when you do that, um, you're not really gonna 1:27:14.280 --> 1:27:18.240 be impersonating them most likely. Uh so it's gonna come 1:27:18.240 --> 1:27:22.880 out you. It's gonna end up being you. But it's 1:27:22.920 --> 1:27:26.080 just so it's just a way of getting some momentum going, 1:27:26.479 --> 1:27:28.559 because that's the hardest thing when it comes to writing. 1:27:29.120 --> 1:27:30.800 And once in a while you get a great melloy 1:27:30.840 --> 1:27:33.800 you'll come into your head, or a phrase. You'll catch 1:27:33.840 --> 1:27:37.000 a phrase in a book or somebody's saying something. You know, 1:27:37.040 --> 1:27:39.720 and I and I and I keep notes. I mean, 1:27:39.760 --> 1:27:42.240 the reason why Summer Sorcery was was such a miracle 1:27:43.080 --> 1:27:46.840 was my radar had been down for thirty years. So 1:27:47.600 --> 1:27:50.280 before that, in the eighties, when you're in that cycle, 1:27:51.400 --> 1:27:53.840 you know, record tour, record to our record to a 1:27:53.920 --> 1:27:57.720 record tour Um, you're always your radar is always up. 1:27:57.920 --> 1:28:00.880 You're always making little notes, you know, a little melodies things. 1:28:01.040 --> 1:28:04.080 You know, you record the little bits of melody that 1:28:04.200 --> 1:28:06.920 come to you, or a chord change. You know, you 1:28:07.080 --> 1:28:12.800 record it. Words you know you'll jot down, you know somewhere. Uh, phrases, 1:28:13.200 --> 1:28:15.880 you always looking for. Titles are always important. The most 1:28:15.880 --> 1:28:18.719 important things to title, you know. The second most important 1:28:18.720 --> 1:28:21.120 thing is a chorus. Very most important thing is the 1:28:21.400 --> 1:28:24.280 opening line. You know. So you're always looking for those. 1:28:24.439 --> 1:28:29.120 The rest right itself. Um, and you're you know, uh, 1:28:29.439 --> 1:28:31.760 and you're always compiling all these notes, and then when 1:28:31.760 --> 1:28:33.519 you go to make a record, you have all this 1:28:33.600 --> 1:28:36.040 stuff you can then you can, you know, put it 1:28:36.120 --> 1:28:39.439 all together. I got to make summar sorcery. I have 1:28:39.760 --> 1:28:42.640 none of that. There's no notes, you know, there's no 1:28:43.400 --> 1:28:47.280 not one bit of melody recorded anywhere, or not one 1:28:47.360 --> 1:28:50.680 single phrase. You know. That's why it was such a 1:28:50.800 --> 1:28:56.280 remarkable miracle that records happened. But but I did, But 1:28:56.360 --> 1:28:58.680 I did. Right there, I sat down said, okay, so 1:28:58.720 --> 1:29:02.920 I'm gonna make a new record. Um, first of all, 1:29:03.040 --> 1:29:04.320 I wanted to be a new idea. I don't I 1:29:04.320 --> 1:29:06.600 don't want it to be order biographical, because all my 1:29:06.680 --> 1:29:09.000 records are autobiographical. And I don't want it to be 1:29:09.080 --> 1:29:12.679 political alright, because there's no reason to be political during 1:29:12.720 --> 1:29:18.120 the Trump years. It's completely redundant. So so I said, 1:29:18.600 --> 1:29:20.960 I'm just gonna write ten or twilve little fictional movies, 1:29:21.439 --> 1:29:24.360 be a different guy in each, and have some fun 1:29:25.040 --> 1:29:27.360 and I and I said, you know, so, who who 1:29:27.439 --> 1:29:29.800 do I want to represented on this record? And I 1:29:29.880 --> 1:29:31.320 wrote down a list. I wanted to fly in the 1:29:31.400 --> 1:29:34.360 family stone because that's how I'm picturing my new disciples, 1:29:34.400 --> 1:29:37.960 the soul in that, in that sort of uh you 1:29:38.080 --> 1:29:41.880 know frame. I want some Sam Cooke, I want some 1:29:42.000 --> 1:29:46.960 Tito Quente, you know, I want from James Brown, and uh, 1:29:47.040 --> 1:29:50.080 you know, I'm may a list and there and and 1:29:50.200 --> 1:29:54.519 then and then I wrote the songs, and uh and none. 1:29:55.040 --> 1:29:58.880 None of those songs sound like those people exactly. They 1:29:58.960 --> 1:30:01.800 sound like me. And that's how it works, man. You know, 1:30:02.320 --> 1:30:06.760 how about collaboration, believe it or not believing it? Well, 1:30:06.960 --> 1:30:10.160 I you know, I love the idea of it, um, 1:30:10.960 --> 1:30:13.679 but I never figured out how to do it. I could. 1:30:14.120 --> 1:30:19.200 All my collaborations, uh, you know, usually somebody's riff, you know, 1:30:19.280 --> 1:30:22.160 Bruce Bruce. Bruce came up with a riff on a 1:30:22.280 --> 1:30:25.760 love on the wrong side of town, you know John 1:30:26.000 --> 1:30:30.360 John John Johnnah Johannah and I wrote the rest. You 1:30:30.439 --> 1:30:32.400 know what I mean, like, give me, give me a 1:30:32.479 --> 1:30:35.280 piece of a song and then I'll finish it. You know. 1:30:35.960 --> 1:30:40.200 But two guys in the same room writing, I don't 1:30:40.320 --> 1:30:42.519 I don't know how to do that, and I and 1:30:42.640 --> 1:30:44.519 I envy it, you know, I'd like to do that. 1:30:44.680 --> 1:30:47.720 I'd like to be in that, you know, winning in 1:30:47.840 --> 1:30:51.920 McCartney mode when they started, you know, Mick and Keith 1:30:52.400 --> 1:30:56.400 when they started UM or any of the any of 1:30:56.479 --> 1:31:00.160 the great songwriting teams, you know, Lieber and Stoller, you 1:31:00.240 --> 1:31:04.719 know Barry Greenwich, you know a lot of great ones. Okay, 1:31:04.760 --> 1:31:07.640 let's do so. Ultimately, Gary Gersh tracks you down. You 1:31:07.760 --> 1:31:13.240 make these records for E M I America. Commercially, they 1:31:13.320 --> 1:31:16.960 are not successful. You talk in the book about the 1:31:17.120 --> 1:31:20.920 label not taking advantage of television appearance in Europe, based 1:31:20.960 --> 1:31:26.280 in Germany, etcetera. What was your internal experience, Hey, did 1:31:26.360 --> 1:31:29.519 you feel an obligation to try to have hits for 1:31:29.680 --> 1:31:31.800 them or you thought you were doing the right thing 1:31:31.840 --> 1:31:34.200 and the label wasn't coming through for you. What was 1:31:34.320 --> 1:31:43.040 your experience there? Yeah, I really, uh, I like those 1:31:43.120 --> 1:31:46.400 records and I went back and really really re examined 1:31:46.439 --> 1:31:52.240 them writing this book. Um, I really believe it was 1:31:52.360 --> 1:31:56.480 a case of having no manager to to be that advocate. 1:31:57.560 --> 1:32:03.240 And my records were not actually the most commercial and 1:32:03.320 --> 1:32:07.040 the most uh the songs that really fit in necessarily, 1:32:07.320 --> 1:32:11.120 so it would have been difficult no matter who it was. Um, 1:32:11.479 --> 1:32:13.280 they were just the way I heard them. You know, 1:32:13.360 --> 1:32:18.800 my records are completely uncompromising. Um. And I don't know 1:32:18.840 --> 1:32:21.000 where that comes from. I don't know why. I mean, 1:32:21.040 --> 1:32:23.840 I grew up with pop music, you know, and I 1:32:23.920 --> 1:32:27.280 love pop music and I love sixties pop music. Um, 1:32:28.840 --> 1:32:32.599 but I just I was off on some artistic trip 1:32:33.320 --> 1:32:36.840 that I I just couldn't resist because it felt like 1:32:36.920 --> 1:32:40.240 I was justifying my existence. You know. It wasn't enough 1:32:40.280 --> 1:32:42.880 to have pop hits in my mind, even if I 1:32:42.920 --> 1:32:45.840 could have done that. Um, they needed to be hits 1:32:45.880 --> 1:32:48.920 with substance. I just I had that need to to 1:32:49.200 --> 1:32:52.559 to communicate substance. I don't know why, but I did, 1:32:53.200 --> 1:32:56.640 and and and and the songs. You know, we're not uncommercial. 1:32:57.280 --> 1:32:59.880 You know, when you'll go back and look at you know, 1:33:00.040 --> 1:33:02.920 out of the darkness or or bitter fruit or or 1:33:03.200 --> 1:33:08.559 or you know, uh whatever, they were not they were 1:33:08.600 --> 1:33:12.400 not you know, they're not jazz. You know they're they're 1:33:12.560 --> 1:33:15.920 not They're not you know, something difficult to comprehend. Um. 1:33:16.920 --> 1:33:18.880 And so you know, I think it would have needed 1:33:18.960 --> 1:33:23.639 some an advocate to to to really to really help 1:33:23.720 --> 1:33:26.960 promote promote the stuff at the time. I think with 1:33:27.080 --> 1:33:29.639 the manager, I think I would have stayed in Europe 1:33:29.680 --> 1:33:33.479 at that moment and broken through. We played the sixteen 1:33:33.560 --> 1:33:37.280 countries and and blew to boot, blew the house down, 1:33:38.640 --> 1:33:41.960 and and and you know, like I said, a group 1:33:42.040 --> 1:33:44.280 that was not nearly as good state and broke to 1:33:44.439 --> 1:33:48.400 in Europe. That might have been my breakthrough moment. Who knows, 1:33:48.800 --> 1:33:52.519 I don't know, Um, I don't know. I I think 1:33:52.720 --> 1:33:55.200 lack of management was a big factor. I think my 1:33:55.320 --> 1:34:01.120 own lack of lack of of making it a priority 1:34:01.280 --> 1:34:05.679 was probably a factor. I I did not see having 1:34:06.000 --> 1:34:09.320 having a hit single at that point being a priority 1:34:09.400 --> 1:34:11.559 to me, and I should have. I should have. Man, 1:34:11.640 --> 1:34:14.000 I made sure bru spraising and a hit record. I'll 1:34:14.040 --> 1:34:16.720 tell you that because we needed it. We needed on 1:34:16.840 --> 1:34:19.439 that that fifth album that you know that was the 1:34:19.560 --> 1:34:25.240 last chance. Man. We needed it, and just to stop 1:34:25.280 --> 1:34:28.880 at that point for a second, it was fascinating to 1:34:29.040 --> 1:34:31.840 get your viewpoint on that. I know there's a big 1:34:32.040 --> 1:34:36.240 economic component on the other side of the stage, but 1:34:36.400 --> 1:34:42.120 from the audience, if you had been there before, everybody 1:34:42.200 --> 1:34:47.280 came aboard on board to run. Certain people came aboard 1:34:47.439 --> 1:34:51.720 on board run Darkness was a return. It was a 1:34:51.880 --> 1:34:55.120 gift to the people who had always been there. And 1:34:55.200 --> 1:34:57.960 in addition, amongst fans in Los Angeles, you played the Rock, 1:34:58.080 --> 1:35:00.720 they played the Roxy. There were boo legs, I own 1:35:00.800 --> 1:35:04.320 the bootleg, et cetera. So the fact that you felt 1:35:04.400 --> 1:35:07.360 on the inside that you needed Hungry Heart and you 1:35:07.439 --> 1:35:11.080 needed to put it over the top. My feeling the 1:35:11.280 --> 1:35:14.960 vibe in l A was Bruce and the Eastree being 1:35:15.000 --> 1:35:19.600 were part of the firmament, well being a part of 1:35:19.640 --> 1:35:25.400 the firmament, part of the FIRMAMENTI of the Roxy. That 1:35:25.560 --> 1:35:28.800 wasn't underplay. I mean that was a radio show or 1:35:28.920 --> 1:35:33.559 even the palladium. What was the intermediate? Uh, I'm pretty 1:35:33.600 --> 1:35:36.040 sure on the Darkness tour Bruce played the Forum. Now 1:35:36.120 --> 1:35:39.479 granted that's l A. Well maybe and maybe, but it 1:35:39.640 --> 1:35:44.400 wasn't it wasn't full. If we did, it wasn't full. Okay. 1:35:44.880 --> 1:35:48.240 So and yes, and that was l a you know, 1:35:48.360 --> 1:35:52.840 you go to Kansas, you know. Uh, we were struggling, 1:35:53.080 --> 1:35:56.320 believing me, believe me, we were struggling. We were in 1:35:56.760 --> 1:36:01.760 some ways less popular. I mean, to run made a 1:36:01.800 --> 1:36:04.960 lot of noise that that particular song. People think it 1:36:05.040 --> 1:36:06.640 was a hit. It wasn't really a hit, but but 1:36:07.080 --> 1:36:11.920 certainly yeah, and it got more airplay than anything on 1:36:12.080 --> 1:36:16.400 Darkness Darkness absolutely, you know. So we were kind of, 1:36:16.720 --> 1:36:18.519 you know, in some ways on a on a on 1:36:18.600 --> 1:36:23.360 a down slide, kind of um saved by Frank Barcelona, 1:36:24.520 --> 1:36:29.519 who kept us going regardless, and it just felt like 1:36:29.760 --> 1:36:32.559 we need we need to get over his hump here, 1:36:32.720 --> 1:36:34.960 you know. So I think that single came wrong with 1:36:35.160 --> 1:36:37.880 throw at the right time. Okay, let's jump forward for you. 1:36:38.400 --> 1:36:44.280 When did you realize the Sopranos was the Sopranos um 1:36:44.720 --> 1:36:52.120 About three weeks after it was on Um. Uh, suddenly 1:36:52.240 --> 1:36:56.880 everybody is stopping me on the street. Uh, and then 1:36:57.120 --> 1:37:01.479 they don't want to discuss rock and roll anymore. And 1:37:01.720 --> 1:37:03.880 I had been a you know, a so called rock 1:37:04.000 --> 1:37:07.800 star at that point twenty five years. Just to show 1:37:07.920 --> 1:37:13.280 the power of TV three weeks. Forget those twenty five 1:37:13.360 --> 1:37:16.519 years and they're they're gone. I'm telling you know, and 1:37:16.720 --> 1:37:19.200 and I and I did not. I was not not 1:37:19.360 --> 1:37:23.559 easily recognized. You know, I looked pretty different in the show. 1:37:23.760 --> 1:37:26.160 You know, I think you fish you may see it 1:37:26.280 --> 1:37:28.800 that way? People knew you were in the show. Yeah, 1:37:29.040 --> 1:37:31.400 you think, Oh, I know, there was you know, that 1:37:31.560 --> 1:37:35.320 was one of the big stories. Not everybody walking down 1:37:35.400 --> 1:37:37.000 the street in New York City is gonna know you're 1:37:37.000 --> 1:37:38.759 in these three be gonna know who you are anyway, 1:37:39.320 --> 1:37:41.599 But if you were a music fan and you were 1:37:41.640 --> 1:37:45.479 watching that show, you knew it was you. Alright, alright, 1:37:45.520 --> 1:37:48.200 But to my mind, I looked pretty damn different. But 1:37:48.520 --> 1:37:51.960 but anyway, it didn't matter because everybody is stopping me. 1:37:52.520 --> 1:37:57.759 And I said, man, this show, We're onto something because 1:37:57.800 --> 1:38:01.000 it was it. This wasn't that obvious League commercial. Okay, 1:38:01.040 --> 1:38:06.920 I mean the pilot, uh was was downright weird? You know. 1:38:07.040 --> 1:38:10.760 Extent is the pilot the first episode, Yes, yes, I 1:38:10.840 --> 1:38:14.920 mean a mob boss has ducks flying to with pool, 1:38:15.360 --> 1:38:18.720 they fly away, he has a nervous breakdown. That the 1:38:18.800 --> 1:38:21.840 makings of a hit show, you know, And then and 1:38:22.000 --> 1:38:25.400 and David Chase, no compromise, this is gonna be his 1:38:25.520 --> 1:38:29.160 last show. He didn't care, all right, he'd been he'd 1:38:29.160 --> 1:38:33.240 been a good TV soldier his whole life since Rockford's Files, 1:38:33.720 --> 1:38:37.479 you know, like what early seventies or something. Um, and 1:38:37.640 --> 1:38:41.080 and and he's ready to go onto movies and he's 1:38:41.120 --> 1:38:42.720 just gonna break every rule in the book. He just 1:38:42.840 --> 1:38:47.920 doesn't care anymore. So so so um, he has no 1:38:48.439 --> 1:38:51.240 The Lightning is like practically should have a very tay 1:38:51.600 --> 1:38:55.040 you know, it's practically a documentary. And the camera doesn't 1:38:55.080 --> 1:39:00.680 move at all, no seductive camera moves. Uh. Uh. I 1:39:00.760 --> 1:39:04.200 had to talk him in adding like four songs to 1:39:04.320 --> 1:39:06.880 the pilot because there was there was no music. It 1:39:07.080 --> 1:39:11.040 was just like it was the most uncompromising and too 1:39:11.080 --> 1:39:14.840 many characters, you know, no stars. A couple of people 1:39:14.920 --> 1:39:16.639 might have known me, and a couple of people knew 1:39:16.960 --> 1:39:20.680 well then new Lorraine from good Fellas, But here she 1:39:20.840 --> 1:39:24.639 is doing the opposite roles from good Fellas, you know. Uh. 1:39:25.479 --> 1:39:28.120 And that's it. So, I mean, every rule was it 1:39:28.240 --> 1:39:32.840 was being broken. Uh. And I thought, you know, I 1:39:32.880 --> 1:39:35.760 thought it was gonna take at least one season for 1:39:35.880 --> 1:39:38.120 people to kind of get used to the idea of it, 1:39:38.160 --> 1:39:42.720 because it was pretty bizarre, you know, no two or 1:39:42.720 --> 1:39:46.320 three weeks boom, I mean it was, it was on 1:39:47.479 --> 1:39:51.080 and uh it just kept building from there. How did 1:39:51.160 --> 1:39:56.599 the Alabama three songs get chosen? They David chose all 1:39:56.760 --> 1:40:00.240 all the music. Uh, I don't watch so much. Sure 1:40:00.280 --> 1:40:04.800 who who turned him onto that? I never asked him? Uh, 1:40:05.680 --> 1:40:07.800 but he but he you know, he had a guy 1:40:08.160 --> 1:40:11.240 that did some music supervision for him. But but mostly 1:40:11.320 --> 1:40:13.880 he liked That's the thing he liked doing most. He 1:40:14.000 --> 1:40:19.160 liked doing the music more than anything. Okay, the landscape 1:40:19.240 --> 1:40:23.599 is littered with hit shows to get worse every season. Okay, 1:40:25.439 --> 1:40:27.800 so you're doing the show now, there was a delight 1:40:27.840 --> 1:40:29.680 he first you wanted to yearly schedule and then they 1:40:29.840 --> 1:40:32.599 you know, for script real, I'm on the outside script resil. 1:40:33.400 --> 1:40:36.799 To what degree was their pressure and to what degree 1:40:36.840 --> 1:40:39.439 did you feel the attention? Now as the show started 1:40:39.479 --> 1:40:46.719 to play out, well, okay, the pressure was on David 1:40:46.800 --> 1:40:53.880 Chase and uh after the first season, Uh, he was 1:40:54.240 --> 1:40:59.120 a little bit stuck because in his mind it was 1:40:59.240 --> 1:41:03.680 just the third teen part movie and and and the 1:41:03.800 --> 1:41:10.400 movie in his head was you know, mother was to 1:41:10.520 --> 1:41:19.680 kill kill her own son. And uh, you know, and 1:41:19.840 --> 1:41:23.519 so he was kind of he wasn't really sure what 1:41:23.680 --> 1:41:28.200 to do after the first season. Uh, but we did. 1:41:28.439 --> 1:41:31.360 We did a second season, right according according to the schedule, 1:41:31.680 --> 1:41:35.720 I think, you know. And then we were at the 1:41:36.680 --> 1:41:41.400 Rath party for the second season and at that point, 1:41:41.479 --> 1:41:44.680 you know, we're doing really really well and uh and 1:41:45.000 --> 1:41:48.760 and and everybody's kind of celebrating, and David Jason's looked 1:41:48.880 --> 1:41:54.679 completely wasted, you know, just really drained. And I said, damn, 1:41:54.720 --> 1:41:56.000 you know, you know, come on, you gotta have some 1:41:56.080 --> 1:42:00.160 fun here, man. And he's like, I got, I got 1:42:00.240 --> 1:42:02.080 like whatever it is, three or four more months of 1:42:02.160 --> 1:42:06.080 post production and then it's like maybe a month off 1:42:06.320 --> 1:42:09.479 and then I gotta started writing a third season, he says. 1:42:09.479 --> 1:42:13.519 And I'm just I'm exhausted. And I said, you know, 1:42:13.760 --> 1:42:17.800 I'm thinking myself, h is HBO. You know, I mean, 1:42:18.840 --> 1:42:22.599 before we got there, there's a football show and seven right, 1:42:23.000 --> 1:42:26.519 you know, you know, And I said, Dave, you know 1:42:27.400 --> 1:42:31.080 who says you gotta follow that schedule, and you know, 1:42:31.240 --> 1:42:33.439 and he had been such a good soldier his whole life, 1:42:33.520 --> 1:42:36.120 you know, he said, well, that's the way we've always 1:42:36.160 --> 1:42:40.840 done it. I'm like, yeah, So what it's HBO, you know, new, 1:42:40.960 --> 1:42:44.960 a new idea. We are so hot right now. What 1:42:45.040 --> 1:42:47.519 are you gonna do? Fire you? If you say I 1:42:47.640 --> 1:42:50.519 want three months off, I want six months or whatever. 1:42:52.400 --> 1:42:55.280 When we come back six months later, will the show 1:42:55.360 --> 1:42:57.559 have been forgotten and and and go down to drain? 1:42:57.680 --> 1:43:00.400 I don't think so, you know, Well they fire you. 1:43:00.640 --> 1:43:04.280 I don't think so, you know, I said, fuck then, 1:43:05.120 --> 1:43:09.160 you know, it's more important to us and to them 1:43:09.840 --> 1:43:13.880 that you are in good shape mentally. You know that 1:43:14.000 --> 1:43:17.840 you are not exhausted. You you need you need to read, 1:43:18.000 --> 1:43:21.240 you know, refuel here man, take take whatever time you 1:43:21.479 --> 1:43:25.640 fucking need, you know. And uh and he did and 1:43:25.760 --> 1:43:30.040 he did, and that changed the entire It changed cable 1:43:30.120 --> 1:43:34.000 TV forever because everybody started doing it later, you know, 1:43:34.400 --> 1:43:38.840 taking you know, extra time here, you know, coming back 1:43:38.920 --> 1:43:42.320 fourteen months later than sixteen months later. But you know, 1:43:42.560 --> 1:43:44.439 but it was important at that time that I thought, 1:43:44.760 --> 1:43:48.280 you know, this guy is gonna just kill himself here 1:43:48.360 --> 1:43:50.360 and what good is he gonna be for anybody? And 1:43:50.520 --> 1:43:53.160 burned out like that. What are a couple of your 1:43:53.200 --> 1:43:58.160 favorite episodes? Well, you know, I never watched the whole 1:43:58.200 --> 1:44:00.360 thing from the beginning, but but I watched some of 1:44:00.439 --> 1:44:03.960 the first season. Uh, they were doing a marathon and 1:44:04.479 --> 1:44:07.479 I and I had seen the you know, the new one, 1:44:08.040 --> 1:44:10.240 the new Many Saints, you know, so I kind of 1:44:10.280 --> 1:44:13.080 put me in that soprano's moods I watched. I watched 1:44:13.880 --> 1:44:17.120 the first season and and uh, it's amazing how well 1:44:17.160 --> 1:44:20.400 it holds up. Honestly, it's a it's a it's a 1:44:20.479 --> 1:44:25.759 pretty unique show. Um. I mean, thinking back, my favorite 1:44:25.800 --> 1:44:31.320 scenes were two things. You know what we're working with Jimmy. Um, 1:44:32.240 --> 1:44:35.519 you know, I just love working with him. Uh. I 1:44:35.560 --> 1:44:37.400 remember seeing that you know where I come in. I 1:44:37.479 --> 1:44:40.679 gotta I gotta give him bad news and it pisces 1:44:40.800 --> 1:44:43.960 them off. And you know, I like that scene a lot. 1:44:44.600 --> 1:44:47.800 And then uh, very rare scene with my wife because uh, 1:44:48.320 --> 1:44:50.320 mostly of the guys with the guy, the girls with 1:44:50.439 --> 1:44:52.960 the girls. And uh we had one scene when when 1:44:53.040 --> 1:44:56.120 the tony sopranos in the hospital and Sylvia has to 1:44:56.160 --> 1:44:59.760 take over and uh, and he's getting dressed and then 1:44:59.840 --> 1:45:02.519 she is there, you know a little bit of the 1:45:02.800 --> 1:45:07.160 Macbeth thank but it was it was that was that 1:45:07.360 --> 1:45:10.719 was are the two scenes to stand out in my mind. Okay, 1:45:10.840 --> 1:45:13.800 you talk about your political awakening, being in Europe being 1:45:13.800 --> 1:45:16.320 asked questions about America, and there are a lot of 1:45:16.400 --> 1:45:22.040 vivid scenes about that, democracies in crisis. What do you 1:45:22.200 --> 1:45:25.400 think of the political world today and what you or 1:45:25.439 --> 1:45:28.200 anybody in the music business or music and anything can 1:45:28.240 --> 1:45:33.680 do about it? Well, that's uh, that's a good question. Um. 1:45:35.000 --> 1:45:36.880 I think we're in big trouble. I think we're in 1:45:36.920 --> 1:45:41.360 the biggest trouble, uh, possibly of our history, certainly since 1:45:41.520 --> 1:45:44.920 uh eighteen sixty. I think we are very much on 1:45:45.000 --> 1:45:47.200 the verge of a second civil war. On he my 1:45:47.280 --> 1:45:51.760 dog waking up. We are in a huge trouble right now. 1:45:53.439 --> 1:45:56.360 And I keep asking where are the tough good guys. 1:45:57.439 --> 1:46:01.600 That's uh, because we're in a war and uh and 1:46:01.720 --> 1:46:04.800 only one size fighting it. And I felt this way 1:46:04.920 --> 1:46:07.840 for a long long time. And arguably this board goes 1:46:07.880 --> 1:46:12.519 back to our founding. Um, you don't like it or 1:46:12.560 --> 1:46:16.200 not admit it or not, we were founded as a 1:46:16.280 --> 1:46:24.840 male dominant, white supremacist, um Christian nationalist oligarchy. That's how 1:46:24.920 --> 1:46:28.639 we re formed, as what most of our constitution said, 1:46:30.280 --> 1:46:37.519 and um, luckily we had a few more enlightened founders 1:46:37.600 --> 1:46:42.599 who snuck in there. The liberty injustice for all bits 1:46:42.680 --> 1:46:45.040 and pieces that we've been trying to live up to 1:46:45.160 --> 1:46:51.120 ever since. But at this point Republican Party has completely 1:46:51.200 --> 1:46:57.559 returned to that same position. Um, and even even more 1:46:57.800 --> 1:47:02.479 anti American and un American than that. You know, they 1:47:02.800 --> 1:47:08.560 just have lost all interest in democracy, in uh, in equality, 1:47:09.360 --> 1:47:14.320 uh and even in science. So it's uh, we become 1:47:14.800 --> 1:47:22.040 we've become this this dangerous uh, dangerously close to civil war. 1:47:22.120 --> 1:47:25.000 And I see it's not just us, it's it's the 1:47:25.520 --> 1:47:27.800 problem is all around the world. I just did two 1:47:27.880 --> 1:47:30.280 tours around the world and gets a mess all over 1:47:30.320 --> 1:47:35.280 the place. You've got a problems from Australia to Indonesia 1:47:35.400 --> 1:47:40.040 to Hungary. You know, either it's either it's fascism or 1:47:40.160 --> 1:47:45.720 it's religious extremism, and uh we got both going on here. 1:47:46.520 --> 1:47:50.439 So so so you know, um, I'm hoping the Democrats 1:47:50.520 --> 1:47:53.840 wake up. Uh if they're the only game in town, 1:47:53.920 --> 1:47:58.280 it's left. But what they're doing to this show Biden, 1:47:58.320 --> 1:48:00.760 I mean, you know, you got love the guy and 1:48:00.840 --> 1:48:03.679 I root for him every day, but he's not getting 1:48:04.000 --> 1:48:06.360 you know, it's been one unforced era after the other. 1:48:07.320 --> 1:48:11.439 I mean, just the concept of bi partisanship. It's just uh, 1:48:13.439 --> 1:48:17.920 a tragic sort of frame of mind when there is 1:48:18.000 --> 1:48:21.200 no by by means too, because we don't have to 1:48:21.680 --> 1:48:26.280 legitimate political parties anymore. I mean, if people were trying 1:48:26.400 --> 1:48:30.000 to make him sound and act like a senile old man, 1:48:30.520 --> 1:48:33.680 they couldn't do a better job of it. Okay. Uh, 1:48:33.960 --> 1:48:38.479 there is no bi partisanship possibility now. Uh, that was 1:48:38.560 --> 1:48:43.720 the first unforced Sarah Merrick Garland. I mean really, Uh, 1:48:43.840 --> 1:48:48.880 what was don knots not available? You know? I mean 1:48:49.760 --> 1:48:52.639 an attorney general. It should be Malcolm Nance, it should 1:48:52.680 --> 1:48:54.519 be you know, and people, well, you're not an attorney. 1:48:54.680 --> 1:48:56.479 I don't, I don't. We don't need an attorney, We 1:48:56.600 --> 1:49:03.120 need a general. You know. Uh. Afghanistan an absolute disaster. 1:49:03.840 --> 1:49:06.800 I don't care what anybody says. I'll argue this all 1:49:06.920 --> 1:49:10.320 day long. Okay. All we had to do was keep Kab, 1:49:10.760 --> 1:49:14.400 keep one town. Was they had at least a hundred 1:49:14.479 --> 1:49:17.160 fifty thousand soldiers that people are saying three hundred thousand. 1:49:17.439 --> 1:49:20.120 Let's cut that in half with a hundred fifty thousand 1:49:20.680 --> 1:49:23.960 creating an impenetrable perimeter. We could have kept the two 1:49:24.000 --> 1:49:26.960 air for the two bases and Kabul and I think 1:49:27.000 --> 1:49:30.080 a few more cities as well. Now, where is that accomplished, 1:49:30.200 --> 1:49:35.120 That accomplishes the main goal of all of our fun policy, 1:49:35.520 --> 1:49:40.040 which should be don't allow anymore Islamic states. All right, 1:49:40.520 --> 1:49:43.960 there's only four, you know, and and and they are 1:49:44.520 --> 1:49:48.640 the epitome. And the ultimate example of human rights violations 1:49:48.720 --> 1:49:52.840 by definition, is the problem with Palestine. Right now. I've 1:49:52.880 --> 1:49:56.200 been fighting for a Palestine homeland my whole life. I'm 1:49:56.240 --> 1:49:59.280 not gonna do it while Hamaz is in charge, forget it, 1:50:00.040 --> 1:50:03.000 all right, not gonna happen, man, al Right, I don't 1:50:03.040 --> 1:50:07.960 believe in human rights violations. And that's what surial law is, 1:50:08.040 --> 1:50:11.400 that's what Alamic state is. And we just gave it 1:50:11.479 --> 1:50:14.360 to him. Man, And what does that mean? That means 1:50:14.400 --> 1:50:19.920 those hundred cats died in Vain, they died for nothing, 1:50:20.200 --> 1:50:23.360 just like the fifty died in Vietnam. It's exactly the 1:50:23.479 --> 1:50:27.640 same thing. Okay, when you when you you know, in 1:50:27.800 --> 1:50:31.280 this case, they had a really good reason to die. 1:50:31.400 --> 1:50:35.400 If we had kept Afghanistan, you know, at least a 1:50:35.520 --> 1:50:39.840 city or two kept it from becoming Islamic state. There's 1:50:39.920 --> 1:50:43.719 plan to justify then, just for the women, the women's 1:50:43.840 --> 1:50:48.559 rights along justifies that, you know, then those hundred died 1:50:48.640 --> 1:50:53.479 for good reason. Fighting Islamic extremism. That's something that's that's 1:50:53.520 --> 1:50:56.240 a war worth fighting every day of the week, you know, 1:50:56.360 --> 1:51:00.760 any religious extremism, but certainly Islamic, you know, I mean, 1:51:01.280 --> 1:51:06.439 you know, and instead, you know, we I mean, how 1:51:06.560 --> 1:51:11.800 could he follow Trump's plan that didn't alarm bells go off? 1:51:12.040 --> 1:51:14.880 If you're doing something you Trump suggested? What the hell's 1:51:14.920 --> 1:51:18.040 the matter with you? And the incline and all the 1:51:18.120 --> 1:51:21.880 guys around them, What were they thinking? You know, Yeah, 1:51:22.000 --> 1:51:24.760 let's get out of the forever war? What about the 1:51:24.800 --> 1:51:27.760 forever war in Japan and Germany and Korea? What about that? 1:51:28.640 --> 1:51:31.040 We're there for a reason, and it's a good reason, 1:51:32.080 --> 1:51:36.240 you know. It's it's called keeping an eye on things 1:51:36.680 --> 1:51:41.120 so we can maintain some freedom and democracy and all 1:51:41.160 --> 1:51:46.560 those good things. Man. You know, instead it bandons Afghanistan, 1:51:46.760 --> 1:51:48.960 you know, and God knows we're not going to go. 1:51:49.360 --> 1:51:52.360 It ain't gonna be good. It's one unforced ver after 1:51:52.400 --> 1:51:55.400 the other. Cuba is another one. Yeah, follow Trump's plan 1:51:55.520 --> 1:51:58.960 on Cuba? What a good idea? You know. Cuban right 1:51:59.000 --> 1:52:01.040 wing have been this to me off ever since they 1:52:01.080 --> 1:52:04.439 got here. You know, they hate for they hate the 1:52:04.479 --> 1:52:07.320 Castro brothers, so much that they want to vote for Trump. 1:52:08.280 --> 1:52:13.320 That makes sense. Huh, you know, come on, man, I mean, 1:52:13.439 --> 1:52:15.599 these people don't give a ship about their own brothers 1:52:15.640 --> 1:52:18.560 and sisters in Cuba. That's what pisces be off. You know, 1:52:18.880 --> 1:52:21.800 they think a boycott hurts the fucking Castro brothers. What 1:52:22.280 --> 1:52:26.320 what planet do you want? You know, the idiots, they're idiots, 1:52:26.560 --> 1:52:29.800 you know, And you know, of course we should normalize 1:52:30.000 --> 1:52:33.719 relations with Cuba. Of course we should. You know, anyway 1:52:34.040 --> 1:52:36.760 you want unforced that after the other man, and and 1:52:36.960 --> 1:52:41.599 you know, and right now, uh, you know, these two, 1:52:41.800 --> 1:52:46.559 these two fucking little life bene Edictonald Twins, Mission and Cinema, 1:52:47.040 --> 1:52:49.679 they're gonna kill the Democratic Party and they kill Biden's 1:52:50.320 --> 1:52:54.000 presidency and they may be killing democracy. That's how bad 1:52:54.080 --> 1:52:56.639 things are right now. I mean, twenty states are already 1:52:56.640 --> 1:53:01.599 passing laws. Twenty states, all right, they're already passing laws. 1:53:01.720 --> 1:53:06.840 Not just voter suppression. That's what everybody talks about. It's 1:53:06.880 --> 1:53:10.760 a voter nullification. Everybody needs to learn the word nullification. 1:53:11.479 --> 1:53:14.920 That's what's going on. And that means it doesn't matter 1:53:14.960 --> 1:53:19.519 who we vote for. Suppression can be overcome. It shouldn't exist. 1:53:19.840 --> 1:53:22.240 But it should, but it can be overcome like like 1:53:22.560 --> 1:53:26.360 you know, Stacy Abels didn't in Georgia, so overcame it. 1:53:27.120 --> 1:53:30.479 Nullification is the whole another trip. That means it doesn't 1:53:30.479 --> 1:53:32.559 matter who wins. They sort of vote to the garbage 1:53:32.640 --> 1:53:35.760 camp and the state legislators decides who wins, which is 1:53:35.840 --> 1:53:39.120 exactly what Trump was trying to do, you know, last 1:53:39.280 --> 1:53:42.720 last election. Well, now what's happening for real? You know, 1:53:43.600 --> 1:53:47.240 And I mean we are in big trouble and I 1:53:47.360 --> 1:53:50.000 don't see I don't see the good guys rising to 1:53:50.120 --> 1:53:52.800 the occasion here. Man. We'll see, we'll see how they 1:53:53.160 --> 1:53:55.639 if they go after the subpoenas you know, for January, 1:53:55.680 --> 1:53:58.720 the January six to you know, if they actually put 1:53:58.800 --> 1:54:01.880 these suckers in jail, they're all right, you know, maybe 1:54:01.920 --> 1:54:04.439 maybe we got a chance here. But I'll see it. 1:54:05.320 --> 1:54:07.160 I mean, look look at the look at the sentences 1:54:07.200 --> 1:54:09.840 are getting. Look at the sentences these guys again, you know, 1:54:10.040 --> 1:54:14.160 for tresh passing, you know, six months for you know, 1:54:14.640 --> 1:54:20.320 violation of some curfew or something. Excis sort of the government. Man, 1:54:21.120 --> 1:54:23.880 what what kind of sentences these people getting? You know, 1:54:24.720 --> 1:54:27.280 I mean it's just you know, you keep play cating 1:54:27.360 --> 1:54:29.840 and playcating and playcating, and we've done it all of 1:54:29.880 --> 1:54:33.360 our lives. Man, What what other country puts up statues 1:54:33.600 --> 1:54:36.240 and names army basis after the cats were trying to 1:54:36.280 --> 1:54:41.000 overthrow the government? Only US assholes do that? You known 1:54:41.080 --> 1:54:43.440 to play kate, play k play k don't don't want 1:54:43.440 --> 1:54:45.520 to piss them off too much? You know, then we 1:54:45.640 --> 1:54:49.120 try to end America. You only try to overthrow a government. 1:54:49.360 --> 1:54:51.040 You know. We don't want to piss them off too much. 1:54:51.520 --> 1:54:54.320 I mean, what the fuss are mattering with us? Were 1:54:54.320 --> 1:54:58.520 are the tough, good guys? Man? You know that? So 1:54:58.880 --> 1:55:00.520 I don't know, man, I don't know what going here, 1:55:00.600 --> 1:55:03.920 but it ain't looking good. It ain't looking good, Okay. 1:55:04.120 --> 1:55:07.760 I thought that once they got rid of abortion there'd 1:55:07.800 --> 1:55:11.120 be riots in the street. Leaders to say that didn't happen. 1:55:11.600 --> 1:55:15.800 By the same token, we had spontaneous demonstrations around the 1:55:15.960 --> 1:55:20.840 world with George Floyd. What will be the trigger to 1:55:21.000 --> 1:55:24.680 make those on the left wake up and take action? Well, 1:55:24.760 --> 1:55:26.680 that's that's a that's a good question, because it should 1:55:26.720 --> 1:55:30.440 have happened by now. It doesn't help when all the 1:55:30.520 --> 1:55:36.200 anchors on TV use the word abortion instead of equal 1:55:36.360 --> 1:55:40.360 women's rights, because that's what we're talking about. We're talking 1:55:40.400 --> 1:55:44.400 about women's equal rights. What they do with those rights 1:55:44.480 --> 1:55:48.280 is their business, you know. And every time we say 1:55:48.320 --> 1:55:51.640 that we're abortion abortion, abortion, it's like we like abortion. 1:55:51.840 --> 1:55:57.400 Nobody likes abortion. Who likes abortion? Nobody? Okay? And if 1:55:57.440 --> 1:56:00.480 you're serious about not liking abortion, there should be a 1:56:00.640 --> 1:56:04.600 lot more sex education. We should condoms everywhere for free 1:56:05.040 --> 1:56:09.160 and a healthy encouragement of oral sex. If you get 1:56:09.280 --> 1:56:11.200 rid of abortion, you get rid of rape. So what's 1:56:11.200 --> 1:56:16.960 the problem right now? In Texas? A father can rape 1:56:17.040 --> 1:56:20.600 his daughter, all right, and then get ten thousand dollars 1:56:20.800 --> 1:56:24.440 with the bounty if she goes to she goes and 1:56:24.520 --> 1:56:27.440 tries to have an abortion. He can get paid for 1:56:27.600 --> 1:56:31.000 rape and his daughter in Texas. Okay. I mean we 1:56:31.120 --> 1:56:35.280 are insane, man, We're losing our minds. And I wish 1:56:35.320 --> 1:56:37.880 I could answer that question bile, because that's the question. 1:56:38.120 --> 1:56:39.920 What was it gonna take for these guys to wake up? 1:56:40.280 --> 1:56:44.000 I don't know. But Joe Biden, you know, he's living 1:56:44.080 --> 1:56:47.520 in the past. Man. I'm sorry. You know, he's a 1:56:47.640 --> 1:56:50.920 right guy at the wrong time. And Obama was too. 1:56:51.000 --> 1:56:52.800 I hate to say it, you know, as much as 1:56:52.880 --> 1:56:55.200 I just love the fact that we could elect the 1:56:55.240 --> 1:56:58.280 black man in the country this prejudice. I mean, it 1:56:58.360 --> 1:57:03.640 was a miracle. But you know again, you know, bringing 1:57:03.680 --> 1:57:06.400 a knife to a gunfight. Now he's not even bringing 1:57:06.440 --> 1:57:09.200 a knife in his gunfight. He's bringing you know, I 1:57:09.240 --> 1:57:13.760 don't know what you know? And I mean it can't 1:57:13.880 --> 1:57:17.800 go on much longer. I mean two is around the corner. Okay, 1:57:17.840 --> 1:57:21.000 you happen to watch Do you watch Bill Maher? Yeah? 1:57:21.440 --> 1:57:24.320 Did you watch the new rule last Friday night when 1:57:24.320 --> 1:57:27.200 he played it out? I think I was on the 1:57:27.240 --> 1:57:32.800 show last Friday, was on the you're on the first segment, 1:57:33.240 --> 1:57:36.800 So did you want did you watch what he played 1:57:36.840 --> 1:57:39.880 it out with the legislatures, etcetera. I had to go 1:57:39.960 --> 1:57:42.520 to another event, and it's everything we know. I mean, 1:57:42.600 --> 1:57:45.160 you know what's going on. Uh w. They have their 1:57:45.200 --> 1:57:47.400 own slate there. You know, they're get they're taking away 1:57:47.480 --> 1:57:49.680 the power of the Secretary of State, the people in 1:57:49.840 --> 1:57:54.160 charge of you know, it's like it's all obvious that 1:57:54.320 --> 1:57:57.840 what's going up now is fighting fighting. The veracity of 1:57:58.960 --> 1:58:00.920 it is not about getting him back at power. It's 1:58:00.920 --> 1:58:04.840 about winning in that's right, and and and and and 1:58:05.000 --> 1:58:07.920 and really is all you need they don't even need 1:58:08.000 --> 1:58:11.160 twenty four All it is three more votes in the 1:58:11.240 --> 1:58:14.280 House and one vote in the Senate and it's over. 1:58:15.120 --> 1:58:21.080 Biden becomes you know, Jimmy Carter. Okay, just a couple 1:58:21.080 --> 1:58:24.240 of things. I'm gonna let you go. So you literally 1:58:24.440 --> 1:58:27.920 talked to Bruce every day. What do you talk about? 1:58:28.280 --> 1:58:30.640 And how long was that period where you were kind 1:58:30.640 --> 1:58:34.800 of on the outs? We um, you know, I I 1:58:35.160 --> 1:58:38.120 talked about our three our three big fights of our lives, 1:58:38.280 --> 1:58:40.960 and and and we were reconciled pretty quickly, you know, 1:58:41.040 --> 1:58:43.920 well from all of them. Uh, we don't we don't 1:58:44.000 --> 1:58:46.680 leave it out there too long, you know. And I 1:58:46.720 --> 1:58:49.680 think that comes from our basic bond, which is, you know, 1:58:50.280 --> 1:58:53.080 really pretty solid, coming from when we were kids and 1:58:53.920 --> 1:58:56.200 and we were the only other freaking town man, you know. 1:58:56.760 --> 1:58:58.840 And you know, if we're the only freak, you know, 1:58:59.240 --> 1:59:01.600 maybe there's something all with you. But if it's two 1:59:01.640 --> 1:59:04.680 of you, you know, maybe there's hope, and maybe there's 1:59:04.680 --> 1:59:07.720 gonna be maybe around and something, you know. And I 1:59:07.920 --> 1:59:11.040 and we really needed each other at that age, and 1:59:11.160 --> 1:59:14.800 I think that really bonded us forever. You know. Um, 1:59:14.960 --> 1:59:17.120 So when when we fight or you know, we have disagreement. 1:59:17.640 --> 1:59:20.000 They didn't last too long. They really donna last too long. 1:59:20.240 --> 1:59:23.800 But you literally connect with him every day. Yeah, I'm 1:59:23.920 --> 1:59:26.440 almost almost, you know, you know, might might miss a 1:59:26.520 --> 1:59:28.640 day or two here and there, but we text, you 1:59:28.720 --> 1:59:30.520 know or something. You know, what do you what do 1:59:30.600 --> 1:59:33.400 you talk about? Whatever is going on? You know, it's 1:59:33.440 --> 1:59:36.520 like getting two friends. You know. We were you know, 1:59:37.640 --> 1:59:40.400 rooting for rooting for his daughter in the Olympics, you know, 1:59:40.480 --> 1:59:44.640 and man, that was something that was exciting. Come away 1:59:44.680 --> 1:59:48.200 with a silver metal, you know. Um, and we talked 1:59:48.200 --> 1:59:51.920 about all kinds of different things were um, you know, 1:59:51.960 --> 1:59:54.040 we're doing a big event. This is this Sunday is 1:59:54.080 --> 1:59:59.280 gonna interview me about the book? And uh, man, no 1:59:59.440 --> 2:00:04.200 whatever and whatever. Okay, So let's say, hypothetically, I waive 2:00:04.280 --> 2:00:09.200 my magic wand you are completely in control of Bruce 2:00:09.720 --> 2:00:13.640 and the Street Band. What should be their next step? 2:00:13.840 --> 2:00:21.040 What should be the direction if you are in charge? Well, 2:00:21.160 --> 2:00:23.920 I think I think at this point it's just it's this. 2:00:24.120 --> 2:00:26.560 It's this kind of obvious, isn't it. I mean, we uh, 2:00:27.600 --> 2:00:30.840 you know, hopefully this virus will cooperate and we're a 2:00:30.840 --> 2:00:34.720 little bit of luck to be back on tour next year. Um, 2:00:35.960 --> 2:00:39.240 I think, you know, playing inside might be a little 2:00:39.240 --> 2:00:43.040 bit dodgy for a while, so maybe we'll probably start outside. 2:00:43.520 --> 2:00:46.280 You know, it would be my guests. And I'm guessing 2:00:46.720 --> 2:00:50.240 right now, okay with your magic wand I'm guessing, uh, 2:00:51.080 --> 2:00:53.640 you know, but if we do go out, it will 2:00:53.680 --> 2:00:56.680 probably be go out for two years. I would like 2:00:56.800 --> 2:00:59.800 to go to some new places. I always do. I'm 2:01:00.000 --> 2:01:04.520 always arguing for that. Um you know, uh, maybe a 2:01:04.560 --> 2:01:06.320 little bit more time in the Far East, but we 2:01:06.360 --> 2:01:10.440 don't spend much time in you know, maybe Dubai, so 2:01:10.680 --> 2:01:14.400 maybe Israel, just to piss off those boycott people, you know, 2:01:14.840 --> 2:01:17.160 I would just like to do that effort for just 2:01:17.600 --> 2:01:21.000 you know, they've been, they've been, you know, as obnoxious 2:01:21.040 --> 2:01:24.360 as humanly possible. And we never even had it on 2:01:24.440 --> 2:01:27.280 the schedule. You know. It was like, how dare you 2:01:27.880 --> 2:01:32.200 think about playing Israel's not gonna hear all these adolescent 2:01:32.320 --> 2:01:35.720 insults to me videos. I'm like, we never even thought 2:01:35.760 --> 2:01:39.440 about it, but I'm thinking about it now, you know, 2:01:42.680 --> 2:01:44.600 So you know I'd like to go. I'd like to 2:01:44.640 --> 2:01:46.560 do with places where we have been. It's always fun 2:01:46.680 --> 2:01:50.080 to break in a new crowd, you know, I mean China, man, 2:01:50.240 --> 2:01:52.960 you know, we gotta get to China soon. I went 2:01:53.000 --> 2:01:55.760 to China for one day. I was trying to get 2:01:55.800 --> 2:01:58.360 my radio show on there, and um, I wanted to 2:01:58.400 --> 2:02:01.600 be the first Western DJ and China to tign them 2:02:01.600 --> 2:02:05.120 off right, you know. And uh. And I talked to 2:02:05.280 --> 2:02:07.600 some people and I said, you know, too many people 2:02:07.680 --> 2:02:09.840 come play here. And they say, well, we don't really 2:02:09.960 --> 2:02:13.160 like live music too much. I was like, what do 2:02:13.200 --> 2:02:15.720 you mean. They said, well, we're so we're they're so 2:02:15.920 --> 2:02:19.600 used to lip syncing, you know that that live music. 2:02:19.680 --> 2:02:24.960 This sounds too sloppy. Was like, oh, man, we gotta 2:02:24.960 --> 2:02:28.720 get to China soon before it's too late, you know, yeah, 2:02:28.760 --> 2:02:31.360 we gotta we gotta start changing those heads around. Man, 2:02:31.800 --> 2:02:35.200 come on, you know too sloppy. We take great pride 2:02:35.240 --> 2:02:39.280 in our sloppy is you know. But the only thing 2:02:39.360 --> 2:02:41.800 in terms of records, you and me both know, the 2:02:41.920 --> 2:02:46.800 landscape has completely changed. The action Spoti type spotify tough. 2:02:46.880 --> 2:02:49.640 If you are nowhere nearer as big as the action 2:02:49.720 --> 2:02:53.320 the sixties, never mind the seventies and eighties. And if 2:02:53.400 --> 2:02:56.240 you are an act, you could put out a record 2:02:56.280 --> 2:03:01.080 and people don't even know. So I was thinking, Max Martin, 2:03:01.120 --> 2:03:03.760 who I barely know, met a few times, talked a 2:03:03.840 --> 2:03:07.520 few times. He started out as a real rock musician. 2:03:08.840 --> 2:03:11.560 How about if Bruce tried to make a record with him. 2:03:12.000 --> 2:03:14.160 You know that This is what Paul McCartney did about 2:03:14.200 --> 2:03:18.480 twenty years ago with Nigel Goodrich. He worked with Radiohead 2:03:19.080 --> 2:03:21.520 and then Nigel said, you know, I think it could 2:03:21.560 --> 2:03:24.120 do better on a song. This is writing a song, 2:03:24.480 --> 2:03:28.200 And Paul McCartney says, I'm Paul McCartney. No, I I 2:03:28.320 --> 2:03:32.840 know it's done. But I think you know that you 2:03:32.960 --> 2:03:36.040 talk about Hungry heart Land, all that dancing in the dark. 2:03:36.200 --> 2:03:41.160 I think there could be another one. Well, I you know, 2:03:41.440 --> 2:03:43.800 you can't rule it out because because there's no there's 2:03:43.840 --> 2:03:49.840 no real rules. Um I think uh, I think, well, 2:03:49.920 --> 2:03:52.680 what happened the first time, it could happen again, which 2:03:52.800 --> 2:03:57.440 was a real ground swell. We were so popular live 2:03:58.440 --> 2:04:02.320 they started to become a problem for radio not playing us. 2:04:02.720 --> 2:04:04.760 You know, there's as a certain point if you can 2:04:04.800 --> 2:04:07.960 actually get that groundswell going. I'm not sure you know 2:04:08.400 --> 2:04:10.920 it could happen exactly the same way, but I think 2:04:10.960 --> 2:04:13.280 it's possible. You know that just in the middle of 2:04:13.600 --> 2:04:16.880 let's say our next tour really just explodes and selling 2:04:16.920 --> 2:04:20.520 out multiple stadiums everywhere. You know, you might have enough 2:04:20.560 --> 2:04:25.360 momentum to just start having radio loosen up a little bit. 2:04:25.480 --> 2:04:30.480 You know, I don't know why classic rock refuses to 2:04:30.520 --> 2:04:33.400 play new things. I don't get it. I've done speeches 2:04:33.480 --> 2:04:36.280 at their conventions and talk to them. I know them all. 2:04:37.040 --> 2:04:39.560 Half of them are running my my show in syndication, 2:04:40.120 --> 2:04:43.440 and I'm like, why, you know, why would you play 2:04:43.760 --> 2:04:46.560 Hey June every two hours and not play a new 2:04:46.640 --> 2:04:49.160 song by Paul McCartney. Why why would you play Brown 2:04:49.240 --> 2:04:51.720 Sugar every two hours and not play a new song 2:04:51.800 --> 2:04:54.880 by the Stones? You know, I don't get it, and 2:04:55.120 --> 2:04:58.040 I agree with you. But the ship is sailed. Radio 2:04:58.440 --> 2:05:01.600 is nowhere near as powerful as it once was. Both 2:05:01.960 --> 2:05:04.640 that's good because the gatekeeper is not as strong. That's 2:05:04.720 --> 2:05:06.560 bad because the rest of the rule is the tower 2:05:06.640 --> 2:05:08.960 of Babel. Well that's the thing. You say that that, 2:05:09.280 --> 2:05:12.200 but that that. But the point is, let's just assume, 2:05:12.280 --> 2:05:15.000 for the sake of discussion, there was that definitive track, 2:05:15.440 --> 2:05:17.800 which I don't think Bruce has had recently. But we 2:05:18.040 --> 2:05:21.200 we won't argue about that. You have that definitive track. 2:05:22.080 --> 2:05:26.960 Those people at Spotify etcetera. They are dying to make 2:05:27.040 --> 2:05:30.000 their bones on ship like this. They will give it 2:05:30.040 --> 2:05:33.480 a good shot. These alternative sources radio, Yeah, the old 2:05:33.520 --> 2:05:36.160 people who listen to radio, etcetera. But the active buyer 2:05:36.320 --> 2:05:42.360 is online. I'm just it's possible. I'm just not sure. Uh, 2:05:42.520 --> 2:05:46.960 the infrastructure that we now exist in, Uh you can 2:05:47.040 --> 2:05:51.760 have that mass shared experience. I don't know. I don't think. 2:05:51.800 --> 2:05:54.360 I don't think you can have it. It's too fragmented, 2:05:54.440 --> 2:05:57.120 isn't It's too fragmenting. I mean it is. But as 2:05:57.160 --> 2:06:00.640 you stated earlier, rock is it the bottom in terms 2:06:00.680 --> 2:06:03.240 of recordings, not in terms of live So if you 2:06:03.320 --> 2:06:05.640 look at this track that Max Martin did with the 2:06:05.720 --> 2:06:08.960 Weekend and the Cold cold Play, cold Play was never 2:06:09.040 --> 2:06:12.280 gonna have a hit without Max Martin. The song is 2:06:12.360 --> 2:06:19.040 not a one listened smash, okay, but gigantic success. I'm 2:06:19.120 --> 2:06:23.200 not saying Bruce needs to sell out. But you know, 2:06:23.280 --> 2:06:26.960 I had this discussion what the fund is his name? 2:06:27.040 --> 2:06:30.240 You know, the hopper, Dave Cobb. Okay. I was talking 2:06:30.280 --> 2:06:32.760 to the manager's good friend of mine, manages Garth Brooks. 2:06:32.920 --> 2:06:36.160 Garth Brooks very loyal to his people. I said, hey 2:06:36.200 --> 2:06:38.000 should work with Dave Cobb, and he says, you know, 2:06:38.120 --> 2:06:40.720 it's not my choice. Garth is loyal to his people. 2:06:41.680 --> 2:06:44.240 But I think, first of all, Dave Cobb will be 2:06:44.280 --> 2:06:48.120 a perfect match for Bruce. That's what he does. But 2:06:48.200 --> 2:06:50.960 if you want to single, you work with Max Martin 2:06:51.360 --> 2:06:54.840 worst case scenario. It's a learning experience. I'm not saying 2:06:54.880 --> 2:06:57.760 somebody to sell out just to pull you into a 2:06:57.840 --> 2:07:00.440 different space. But I'll get off my soul box and 2:07:00.480 --> 2:07:03.480 I'll go to my final thing here. Okay, you read 2:07:03.560 --> 2:07:07.040 the book. You've had so many experiences that if you 2:07:07.200 --> 2:07:11.160 die tomorrow, you know you've had a great life in 2:07:11.280 --> 2:07:13.920 the anywhere from one minute to twenty five years. You 2:07:14.000 --> 2:07:17.080 have left anything left and left that you want to 2:07:17.200 --> 2:07:22.920 do accomplish personal career wise, well, I don't know, I 2:07:23.320 --> 2:07:28.280 I really have in some ways. I just kind of 2:07:28.680 --> 2:07:33.120 discovered a whole new way of making records and writing songs, uh, 2:07:33.880 --> 2:07:36.440 which sounds funny because it's the way everybody else does it. 2:07:36.560 --> 2:07:41.320 But my last my lowest album is the first fictional 2:07:41.400 --> 2:07:45.760 album I've ever done, you know, and uh and and 2:07:46.000 --> 2:07:49.320 and fiction is fun, you know, it takes a lot 2:07:49.400 --> 2:07:53.839 of pressure off U, all this life and death stuff. 2:07:54.440 --> 2:07:57.880 So I don't know that. I wonder where that could go. Um. 2:07:58.720 --> 2:08:04.040 I got five completed scripts and twenty five treatments, uh, 2:08:04.960 --> 2:08:08.040 any of which I think would be really enjoyable TV shows. 2:08:08.080 --> 2:08:11.160 I like to do more of that. Um. Live, I 2:08:11.520 --> 2:08:15.480 love producing live events the most. The Broadway show I did. 2:08:15.920 --> 2:08:18.160 I think it was the high point of my artistic life. 2:08:19.640 --> 2:08:23.560 I I love, you know, writing, directing, producing, and and 2:08:23.920 --> 2:08:30.360 really uh doing something that is entertaining with substance live. 2:08:30.560 --> 2:08:33.360 I mean, there's nothing quite like live. So, you know, 2:08:33.560 --> 2:08:36.240 as as much as I love TV, and I have 2:08:36.280 --> 2:08:40.120 a couple of movie ideas as well. Um, we'll keep 2:08:40.160 --> 2:08:44.680 the Disciples Soul going if I can. But you know, 2:08:44.880 --> 2:08:46.800 I like, I like, I like doing a lot of things. 2:08:47.320 --> 2:08:50.880 So it's just a matter of staying busy and uh 2:08:51.760 --> 2:08:56.080 finding a patron to pay for it. That's my That's 2:08:56.160 --> 2:08:58.600 my goal in life, you know, and then maybe maybe 2:08:58.640 --> 2:09:03.360 I'll achieve my ultimate goal life, which is breaking even. Okay, Stephen, 2:09:03.440 --> 2:09:06.080 this has been fantastic. I want to thank you so 2:09:06.240 --> 2:09:08.760 much for taking the time to talk with me. My 2:09:09.000 --> 2:09:12.000 my my pleasure. I've always get type of liver. Okay, 2:09:12.080 --> 2:09:14.760 until next time, It's Bob Leftstax