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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Gets Podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is Stevie van zand he's got a

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Speaker 1: new autobiography, Unrequited Infatuations. Stephen, glad to have you here.

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Speaker 1: I'm good to be with you, man. Okay, let's start

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Speaker 1: from the beginning. Your friends, what do they call you? Miami?

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Speaker 1: Little Steven, Steve, Stephen ste is fine, No, but what

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Speaker 1: do they call you? Thank? Call me? Yeah, okay, Steve

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Speaker 1: or Stevie or Stephen, Stevie mostly Stevie mostly growing up?

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Speaker 1: Were you always Stevie? Yeah? Okay. So one thing you

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Speaker 1: mentioned in the book is an offend comment that if

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Speaker 1: your finances were better then maybe you could have afforded children.

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Speaker 1: Is this something you consciously thought of? Well? Yeah, to

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Speaker 1: an extent, I never felt really stable enough to have children.

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Speaker 1: I never gave it a serious thought as to, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, should I should I find a way to

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Speaker 1: do that or not? But as my life has unfolded,

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Speaker 1: it's been rather unstable, and I really do feel one

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Speaker 1: should feel some stability before one has some children. You

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Speaker 1: know my own feeling. Any regrets that you didn't have them?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, Um, not really? You know, it's just

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Speaker 1: it wasn't It wasn't in the cards. This this life,

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe next life. I don't know. Okay, do

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Speaker 1: you believe in reincarnation or you religious person or just

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Speaker 1: saying that, I'm just saying that I'm not a religious person. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I just I really, I really don't have

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Speaker 1: any thoughts about it. I Um, I think it's probably

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Speaker 1: because of my own arrested development that I never felt

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Speaker 1: like I quite grew up myself. So I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: I would never be qualified two uh for that for

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Speaker 1: that very important role in life. Okay, you wrote the book,

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Speaker 1: it's now out. How are you dealing with the reception?

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you the truth. It's been amazing, amazingly

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Speaker 1: well received, um, more than any album and I and

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Speaker 1: I've always gotten good album reviews, you know, I got

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Speaker 1: no complaints, but uh, this is something I mean, the

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Speaker 1: response has been remarkable, to be honest, I mean I

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Speaker 1: didn't expect that, you know, New York Times best seller

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Speaker 1: List and uh, London Times and l A and every

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Speaker 1: everywhere is doing well and uh and the reviews been spectacular.

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Speaker 1: It's just one of those things that I didn't really

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Speaker 1: think about. I just did it. But but the results

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Speaker 1: have been amazing so far. Great, And now that the

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Speaker 1: book is finalized, is there anything that you would want

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Speaker 1: to go back and change? Um? No, I caught a

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Speaker 1: couple of errors when I did the audio book, you know,

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Speaker 1: which uh makes me wonder if if if those things

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Speaker 1: are done in the wrong order, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: most most books have done that way. You know, you

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Speaker 1: do the audiobook last. I wonder though, if I do

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Speaker 1: another book, I think I'll do the audiobook first, because

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Speaker 1: if you find I mean, we've been through this thing

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Speaker 1: seven eight nine times, me and my editor and my

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Speaker 1: publisher and so many and others, and there was still

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Speaker 1: like a dozen mistakes left in it, you know. But

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Speaker 1: so that was nothing nothing major, nothing making it was

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Speaker 1: a grammatical mistake. It's just through a stupid stupid things. Yeah, nothing,

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Speaker 1: you know, there was there was one serious thing where

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Speaker 1: like the wrong album. Uh what was it? Uh? Uh

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Speaker 1: you know somebody, some some bands album was was the

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Speaker 1: wrong album which uh, which wasn't my mistake, it was

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Speaker 1: it was made by once. I mean, you you know

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Speaker 1: the process. But once you go through your own process,

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Speaker 1: it goes through an editorial process with the publisher, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes they will change things thinking that they're correcting something

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Speaker 1: when they're not. So it's all very very The book

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Speaker 1: world is a trip, and I gotta tell you the truth.

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Speaker 1: It's a different it's a different world, and it takes

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Speaker 1: some it takes some adjusting. You know, you gotta you

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Speaker 1: gotta give up some of the usual total control that

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Speaker 1: that I usually demand. I mean, I just I just

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Speaker 1: did eight days in Europe and the book is different

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Speaker 1: in every country. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna try

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Speaker 1: and collect them all because you know, I mean, there

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Speaker 1: are there are countries that change the title without mentioning

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Speaker 1: it to you, like damn, that's that's different. You know.

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Speaker 1: So you know, you work very hard to get everything

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Speaker 1: exactly right. You know, when you're making albums, you know

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Speaker 1: that everything from the art to the graphics to you know,

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Speaker 1: you name it, and to go from country to country

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Speaker 1: and having it would be different every single time has

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Speaker 1: been pretty pret remarkable. And you know, one country left

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Speaker 1: off the Dylan blurb, you know, one country left off

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Speaker 1: the McCartney blurb. You know, you know it'll just change

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Speaker 1: the title. Okay, you have all those blurbs in the

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Speaker 1: book are you self conscious about asking for those or

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Speaker 1: you have no problem. I didn't ask. I couldn't do it.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't do it, you know, Um, I don't. I

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Speaker 1: didn't ask anybody. I think the publisher, the publisher mostly

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Speaker 1: did it. UM trying to think of either a publisher

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Speaker 1: or my managers would uh would you know, talk to

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Speaker 1: talk to people? And uh, my publishers said, have been

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Speaker 1: you know, uh friendly with Bob Dylan's manager, and they

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Speaker 1: you know, they sent every single book to him. And

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Speaker 1: it's the first time he's ever actually done a blurb

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Speaker 1: that they can remember. Nobody can remember another Bob Dylan blurb.

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Speaker 1: Somebody says there might have been one forty or fifty

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Speaker 1: years ago for Alan Ginsberg or somebody. Uh. So that

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Speaker 1: was that was beyond beyond belief. I mean, that was

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Speaker 1: that was so so so nice of him to do.

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Speaker 1: And I didn't ask, um, but I did send him

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Speaker 1: the book right away, I said, I sent the book

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Speaker 1: to Bruce. So I sent the book to Bob because

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Speaker 1: I didn't want it to be one of those books

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Speaker 1: that you know, any kind of gossip or or I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to make any Bruce news at all. And uh,

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Speaker 1: some of the conversations with Bruce and Bob were intimate,

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Speaker 1: private conversations. I wanted to make sure they were cool,

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Speaker 1: you know, with those um and that has been the

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Speaker 1: challenge in the book because I I know a little

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Speaker 1: bit too much, you know, So it's a matter of

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Speaker 1: what do you leave in? You know, what do you

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Speaker 1: leave out? And it's a little bit, it's a little bit.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna be a little bit careful about that. So

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Speaker 1: in those two cases, I thought, I want to try,

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Speaker 1: I want to check with them, and they neither one

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Speaker 1: of them changed one single word, which which was which

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Speaker 1: was nice? Well, there's the code of the road, as

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Speaker 1: we know. And speaking of the road, that's where you

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Speaker 1: seem to run into Dylan in the book. It seems

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Speaker 1: like you don't have that extensive and interaction with him

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Speaker 1: in your life. What is the truth now that we're talking. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's just sort of a fantastic acquaintance. You know. It's

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Speaker 1: not I wouldn't I wouldn't be so uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: changress to say, you know, we're best friends, but uh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I just think we we just had

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Speaker 1: to like each other and run into each other every

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Speaker 1: couple of years. Um, you know, we don't talk every day,

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Speaker 1: like like me and me and Bruce do you know,

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Speaker 1: pretty much. But but Bob is just every time I

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Speaker 1: see him, it's an adventure. And uh, I just I

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Speaker 1: just thought that they're just kind of fun, this kind

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Speaker 1: of fun encounters because he's just a fun guy. I mean, he's, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's in some ways he's very very normal,

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Speaker 1: and in some ways he's just uh, he's just always

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Speaker 1: surprising you with something, you know. So it's uh, I

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Speaker 1: just I just love the guy. I mean, aside from

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Speaker 1: being so extraordinarily important to my work and everybody else's,

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Speaker 1: uh and his place in history, but he uh, he's

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Speaker 1: just one of those fascinating kick cats that that very proud,

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Speaker 1: very proud to know him. And uh, but I don't

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Speaker 1: see him nearly as often as as as I as

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Speaker 1: I wish, I wish I could. What's your favorite Dylan album? Oh,

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Speaker 1: it's got to be Blonde. I'm Blonde in the end.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I like a lot of them,

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Speaker 1: but mind I'm Blonde was the one that just, h

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Speaker 1: you know, it's it was just the the ultimate, the

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Speaker 1: ultimate Dylan album. I think a lot of people agree

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Speaker 1: with you that's really the number one true fans. But

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Speaker 1: I'm really bringing it all back home guy, because you

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Speaker 1: know it's all right, ma, it is transcendent. And of course,

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Speaker 1: at this led, at this late date, subterranean Homesick Blues

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Speaker 1: is a big deal. Everyone talks about Highway sixty one,

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Speaker 1: but I prefer bringing it all back home. Yeah. That

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Speaker 1: was that's the half electric catholic acoustic one, right, right, exactly? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know, I mean, you know, maybe maybe skipping the

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Speaker 1: first one, but you know, other than that, the first seven, uh,

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Speaker 1: just remarkable. I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't argue with anybody.

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Speaker 1: I mean, free wheeling, you know, times they were changing,

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Speaker 1: you you, you know, extraordinary things on these records. I

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Speaker 1: mean complete completely. I mean, I know the words used

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Speaker 1: too often, but they are game changers for the folk world.

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Speaker 1: They completely changed the folk world overnight. And uh and

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Speaker 1: then as soon as as soon as they you know,

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Speaker 1: they were kind of reluctant to accept him because he

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Speaker 1: was kind of radical, and then the truth they accept them.

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Speaker 1: They kind of walked away and plugged in because but

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Speaker 1: but but no. I talked about Subtorian Homestay Blues in

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Speaker 1: the book as the single most important, you know, two

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Speaker 1: sentences in history of rock and roll. I think I

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Speaker 1: certainly know the record. For those people who don't know

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Speaker 1: the record, why don't you just give us the two lines? Well,

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Speaker 1: the first the first line he's you know, he because

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Speaker 1: Bob is a mixture of you know, playfulness and fun

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, just kind of uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: he always he's always wanted to make you think a

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Speaker 1: little a little bit and has you know, coming from

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Speaker 1: the beat, poetry, the metaphor and symbolism type stuff, but

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Speaker 1: also just sometimes just stream of consciousness. And and he

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Speaker 1: doesn't even he doesn't even intend to say anything. He

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Speaker 1: just likes putting the words together. I don't think anybody

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Speaker 1: loves English language as much as Bob Dylan. He just

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Speaker 1: loves the language and loves to play with it. So

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Speaker 1: the first line is is this kind of that a

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Speaker 1: little provocative, a little little you know, which is Johnny's

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Speaker 1: in the basement mixing up the medicine. You know, what

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Speaker 1: does that mean? I go through like five or six

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Speaker 1: things it could mean in the book, but you know,

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Speaker 1: And then the second line is the is the one

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Speaker 1: I'm on the pavement think about the government well, what

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Speaker 1: a weird thing to say to us thirteen fifteen year olds.

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Speaker 1: You know, what do you mean? They're thinking about the government.

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Speaker 1: Who would want to do that? Why? Why would you

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Speaker 1: do that? You know? Uh, that was a remarkable thing

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Speaker 1: to say in a pop song, you know, basically, and

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Speaker 1: uh it really made you think. And I've been thinking

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Speaker 1: ever since. You know, Okay, let's go back to the

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Speaker 1: book for a second. Your name is on the cover,

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Speaker 1: but when you go inside the book as an editor,

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Speaker 1: to what degree was the editor involved in the writing

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Speaker 1: of the book, and to or to what degree it's

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Speaker 1: all yours? I wrote every single word. And I try

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Speaker 1: to think in the beginning because I read so many

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Speaker 1: biographies and they all seemed felt similar because the co

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Speaker 1: writer is doing the writing, and it's just they all

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Speaker 1: become very homogenized. And I just decided, I'm not it's

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Speaker 1: not gonna be me. Um. So I um, I try

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Speaker 1: to figure out how how can I how can I

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Speaker 1: make sure that this is in my own voice? And

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Speaker 1: I thought to myself, well, I'm a picture doing the

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Speaker 1: audio book, you know, and uh, if I can, if

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Speaker 1: I can write it the way I you know that

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna speak it um, it might work. And so

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Speaker 1: I explained to the publisher and to the uh, to

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Speaker 1: my editor, I said, listen, this is not gonna look right.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be not correct grammatically, it's not gonna uh,

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be sentenced fragments all over the place. But

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Speaker 1: if you if you read it the way I'm writing it,

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Speaker 1: it'll sound like me, you know. And that's what I

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Speaker 1: ended up doing. Uh, And um, I think it really

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Speaker 1: worked because everybody the first thing everybody says to me, boy,

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Speaker 1: I can really hear you. I hear your voice in

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Speaker 1: this and uh, that was very important to me. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, it was hard for my editor because he's

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Speaker 1: a co writer and he had done some great books

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Speaker 1: for George for George Clinton and Brian Wilson and Quest

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Speaker 1: Love and I forget who else. But he's really a

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Speaker 1: terrific writer himself, and uh, you know, and he did

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Speaker 1: me a favorite really by by not by not co writing,

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Speaker 1: and uh, but he was very very helpful in terms

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Speaker 1: of the editing because I can digress, you know, with

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Speaker 1: the best of them. Man. I mean, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: hard to make it hard for me to make it

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Speaker 1: through a page without one story turning into another story,

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Speaker 1: turning into another story, you know. And I wanted to

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Speaker 1: keep it somewhat on the on the right path. And

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Speaker 1: most importantly, I wanted to maintain a balance of the

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Speaker 1: history because I witnessed every day except the first decade

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Speaker 1: of rock and roll, and uh, and I got some

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Speaker 1: thoughts on that subject, um and and I've been a

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Speaker 1: lot involved a lot of craft. So I wanted to

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Speaker 1: make sure the craft made it into the book because

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Speaker 1: I thought that might be useful, you know. And and

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Speaker 1: then in the middle, it was the narrative, you know,

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Speaker 1: So that balance of those three things was important. And

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Speaker 1: that's that's what I told the editor to keep an

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Speaker 1: eye on. I want to make sure that balanced between

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Speaker 1: history and narrative and craft, uh, you know, kind of

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Speaker 1: stuck together throughout the book. I want to wander too

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Speaker 1: far from from any of those three things. And and

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Speaker 1: then and then, you know, when it came to whatever

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Speaker 1: the whatever I was talking about at that moment, whatever

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Speaker 1: the event was, or you know, you gotta you gotta

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Speaker 1: provide a little context, you gotta provide some environment, you

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Speaker 1: you know, provide what you're thinking in that moment. And

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Speaker 1: it was a question of how much, you know, for

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Speaker 1: each for each incident. That that's that's real tricky because

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Speaker 1: you know, you gotta provide some for us. The book

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Speaker 1: becomes a list, you know, I did this, and I

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Speaker 1: did that, and I did this and I did that.

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Speaker 1: You know, that's boring, So you know you want to

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Speaker 1: you want to make it. You know, I was hoping

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Speaker 1: that would end up being more like a detective novel

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Speaker 1: or Dan Brown book where they don't know what's coming next,

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Speaker 1: because I didn't know what was coming next, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the first half it's been a pretty pretty

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Speaker 1: linear you know, local kids from Jersey makes it to

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Speaker 1: the top and rock and roll, which is a great

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Speaker 1: story myself, and you know, I'm not I don't want

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Speaker 1: to sound ungrateful about that. That's wonderful, you know. But

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Speaker 1: the second half, when I leave the street band and

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Speaker 1: my life has ended literally, uh, and there's no plan

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Speaker 1: and now I'm just wandering in the wilderness, I think

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Speaker 1: it's becomes more interesting. And now that the more universal

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Speaker 1: themes start to emerge, I think, you know, the the

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Speaker 1: search for identity and the search for purpose in life

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Speaker 1: and spiritual you know, spiritual enlightenment and those kinds of things,

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Speaker 1: um that everybody can relate to, right, I just want

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Speaker 1: it to be a music book for music people exclusively. Yeah. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you had a book deal and you gave the

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Speaker 1: money back. Right now you have another book deal. How

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Speaker 1: did you decide to actually do it? Was it has

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Speaker 1: something to do with the time of the uh uh

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Speaker 1: you know shutdown of America the world? Actually and what

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Speaker 1: was your process and how long did it take to do?

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Speaker 1: You one of those guys you know you sharpen your

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Speaker 1: pencil every day at noon or whatever you started, So

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Speaker 1: give us some of the story. Yeah. I think that

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Speaker 1: the survey of quarantine thing was the biggest factor. I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure it would have ever been done without that, honestly. Um,

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Speaker 1: it just was a perfect opportunity. Um. A big factor

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Speaker 1: was the previous three years. Two that the seventeen eighteen

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Speaker 1: nineteen happened to be the most productive years of my

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Speaker 1: entire life. Unexpectedly got back into the music business, said

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Speaker 1: that no plans to do that, Like most of my

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Speaker 1: life was just not planned. I got back in, I

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Speaker 1: put out two two albums which I didn't expect to

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Speaker 1: do so Fire in Summer of Sorcery. I ended up

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Speaker 1: releasing six album packages in those three years, which is

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Speaker 1: about as productive as you can be, you know. And

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Speaker 1: and so suddenly I reconnected with my life's work, which I,

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Speaker 1: you know, unconsciously abandoned for thirty years. Um, suddenly I was,

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Speaker 1: you know, back playing my own songs again, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I kind of appreciating them, I must say, for the

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Speaker 1: first time, maybe uh the first time in a long time,

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Speaker 1: appreciating them in a new kind of way. I just felt,

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Speaker 1: you know, jeezus, stuff was interesting. It has a value

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Speaker 1: to it that, uh, I've never really considered. It's something

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Speaker 1: about the you know, the genre I created, this rock

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Speaker 1: meat soul thing that it kind of holds up in

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Speaker 1: a funny way because it was never fashionable. You know,

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Speaker 1: it was never trendy. When I did it the first time,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't fashionable. So when something's never been fashionable, it

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Speaker 1: kind of makes it timeless, you know, it gives it

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Speaker 1: a timeless quality. And uh, and I just was a

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Speaker 1: little bit, a little bit struck by by the by

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Speaker 1: the nature of the music. And I put together this

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Speaker 1: amazing band, actually put together by my friend Mark Ribbler,

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Speaker 1: put a couple of my old friends in it, and

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Speaker 1: and and they just performed the stuff so well that

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Speaker 1: uh uh, I said, well, it sounds so good. I

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Speaker 1: mean it all. It all started with with with this

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Speaker 1: promoter in London at the end of the street tour

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Speaker 1: two thousand sixteen. He said, when you come back to

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Speaker 1: London And I said, well, I usually me and my

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Speaker 1: wife's come back every Thanksgiving for her birthday because she

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Speaker 1: loves London so much, but this year coming earlier for

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Speaker 1: Bill Wyman's eightieth birthday, and he said, well, that's that's

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Speaker 1: the week of my blues festival. Put a band together

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Speaker 1: and and and headline one of the night. And I

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Speaker 1: was like, wow, I haven't done that in thirty years.

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Speaker 1: But more I thought about it, the more it sounded

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Speaker 1: like fun. I said, you know what, I'll bring back

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Speaker 1: the horns and I'll be able to do some like

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Speaker 1: Paul Butterfield stuff with the horns that nobody's nobody ever

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Speaker 1: hears that stuff. I'll do some electric flag nobody ever

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Speaker 1: hears that stuff. You know, I'll do some blue stuff,

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Speaker 1: and then I'll do some of my own songs. And

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Speaker 1: when I started playing my own, my own music, I

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Speaker 1: was really really struck by it. So so we ended

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Speaker 1: up well, let's let's let's make an album and and

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Speaker 1: the soul FA. I wasn't ready to write a whole

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Speaker 1: new albums, so we did so fire h an album

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Speaker 1: of songs I've written for other people. And by accident

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Speaker 1: again somebody came by and gave us a sponsorship to tour.

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Speaker 1: I had a TV show that I was going of

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Speaker 1: fell through. Bruce decided to do Broadway. I had nothing

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Speaker 1: better to do. Um, all right, let's let's tour it.

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Speaker 1: And we start touring, and then ideas start coming to me,

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Speaker 1: and uh and Summer sorcery Man, a whole new album

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Speaker 1: came out of a gift from the gods, you know,

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Speaker 1: and and uh you know, and so suddenly, uh, here

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Speaker 1: comes the Quarantine and I felt some closure because of that,

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Speaker 1: I felt the mute musically, I had a little closure

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Speaker 1: on that part of my life. And uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I had new managers. First time I've ever had managers, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, which is many of the problems I run

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Speaker 1: into in the book, because I never had managers or

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Speaker 1: manager and U and one of the managers actually suggested

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Speaker 1: at the end of the book, which helped me formulate.

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Speaker 1: You know, Okay, I know the beginning, I know the end.

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Speaker 1: You know, let's just tell a story and try and

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Speaker 1: keep it to uh, try and keep it somewhat coherent,

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Speaker 1: because my life, uh, pretty pretty crazy. Okay, So you

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Speaker 1: talked about reading all the biographies, you know, Ray Davies

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Speaker 1: says Ray Davously saying, England. Give me two good reasons

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Speaker 1: why I ought to stay. Tell me too. Music biographies

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Speaker 1: that you think are great, Well, Bob Dylan's Chronicles has

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Speaker 1: to be number one. Um. I thought Bruce's book were great. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I liked um, I like Robbie Robertson and uh

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Speaker 1: and I like Levi on Helms too. Well. One book

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Speaker 1: you mentioned in the book which I love is the

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Speaker 1: Tommy James book. Oh, I think it's great, really great. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's great. Uh he's uh, he's lucky to be alive.

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Speaker 1: But I mean you know that that was that wasn't

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Speaker 1: great when Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: So how long did it take you to write your

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Speaker 1: book and what was the process? About a year? You know,

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Speaker 1: about about a year of the quarantine. I would say,

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Speaker 1: um we um, we decided, you know, I wanted I

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Speaker 1: wanted to treat this thing a little bit like therapy,

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Speaker 1: which which really was. So I I spoke with the

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Speaker 1: editor I think three times a week for an hour

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Speaker 1: or two, like Monday, Wednesdays, and Fridays. So I would

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Speaker 1: write over the weekend. Um, you know, I would write

385
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Speaker 1: and and then and then we would discuss it and

386
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Speaker 1: I would write. You know, uh, just do that, you know,

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Speaker 1: writing constantly and discussing it, like two or three times

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Speaker 1: a week. Uh, for various reasons, you know, just to

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Speaker 1: make sure again I was maintaining this balance I wanted, um,

390
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Speaker 1: but he was. He also was a good sounding board

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Speaker 1: for what people might want to know about you know, um,

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Speaker 1: because I gotta I go. There's a lot I kind

393
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Speaker 1: of got a little bit too much in my head. So, um,

394
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Speaker 1: you want to make sure you're you're not boring people

395
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Speaker 1: or spending too much time on one subject, making sure

396
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Speaker 1: you're spending enough time on the subject. Um, those kinds

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Speaker 1: of basic you know, limitations that you want to You

398
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Speaker 1: want to have somebody you know saying you know, you're

399
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Speaker 1: going a little too far here or not far enough there.

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Speaker 1: So um, there was a almost a constant conversation with

401
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Speaker 1: the editor and I really uh, so you know it

402
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Speaker 1: was really a collaborator in a true sense of the word. Okay,

403
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Speaker 1: how come you never had a manager till now? Well

404
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: asked a big question. I wish, I wish, I wish

405
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Speaker 1: I knew. You know, I spoke to a lot of

406
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Speaker 1: guys when I was looking for a manager for Jukes,

407
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: because I was managing the Jukes in the beginning and

408
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: I desperately wanted to find a manager for them before

409
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Speaker 1: I left uh to join the Easter Band. And uh

410
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Speaker 1: I got, I got I'm the greatest agent in the world.

411
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Speaker 1: That was big, you know, getting him Frank Barcelona. But

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Speaker 1: you know, our manager represents you, and uh, I was

413
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Speaker 1: having trouble finding somebody that I felt, okay representing me

414
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Speaker 1: if I'm not in the room, you know. Um And

415
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: I think it has to do with my aversion to

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Speaker 1: money frankly and uh and people who's job it is

417
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:05,399
Speaker 1: to make money. I sometimes have trouble finding a common

418
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Speaker 1: ground with with with people like that, and and and

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Speaker 1: in the manager's case, that's kind of that's one of

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Speaker 1: their main jobs is to make money. And you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, if I get if I get that

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Speaker 1: sense that money is their priority. I uh I don't

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Speaker 1: trust it. I don't trust it, uh because for me, uh, integrity, dignity. Uh,

424
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:33,240
Speaker 1: certainly the art, the work comes first, has to come first.

425
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: And I realized, you know, we're always trying to the

426
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: great dilemmas, trying to find a balance between art and commerce.

427
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: I understand that, and I you know, and I never

428
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 1: found it. I mean, if anything, my life is the

429
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:54,159
Speaker 1: triumph of art overcommerce. Uh. But I think you know,

430
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 1: when I when I sense that somebody is just you know,

431
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: in it for the money, you know, to some extent,

432
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 1: it just turns me off. So I think that was

433
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: part of it. You know. I just never they were

434
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: quite fast somebody. I mean, looking back, that was that

435
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: was a mistake I should have I should have I

436
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: should have just picked somebody and had them do it,

437
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: because a whole lot of opportunities were lost because because

438
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 1: of that and uh, not having a buffer. People people

439
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: like the artist to have a buffer. They don't want

440
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: to talk directly to you, you know, they just don't.

441
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: That's just how the business works. They want they wanted

442
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 1: they want an intermedia, you know, that's why you know,

443
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: the networks. The other thing is, you know, you know,

444
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: I've been through this with deals where they say insulting things.

445
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: They're just negotiating, but hit me emotionally. So since you

446
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: made all your own deals, how good a negotiator are you?

447
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 1: Certainly in retrospect, Well that's the problem. I'm very good. Uh,

448
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 1: And it was hard to find managers that were as good. Uh.

449
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: But it wasn't the negotiating of the deals that was

450
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 1: the problem so much. In fact, there's advantages. There's advantages

451
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,199
Speaker 1: to the artist if you if you can get somebody

452
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 1: to actually do the deal with you. Uh, there's advantages

453
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: to being the artist. And in that case because they

454
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: don't want to say no to you, you know, so

455
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: sometimes it actually is an advantage. Um. What's the biggest

456
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: problem is there's not the negotiations as much as just

457
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: not having an advocate. I mean, the gig of a

458
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: manager is is advocate. You know. Uh, I can sell

459
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: you all day long, Man, I can't sell me, you know,

460
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: and you need somebody selling you. And asked that that's

461
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 1: just the truth, man, And I never had that, So

462
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: why do you have it now? Well? I got lucky.

463
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,080
Speaker 1: First of all, I didn't I wasn't looking for a

464
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,160
Speaker 1: manager at this stage of the game and my agent,

465
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: my music agent, one day just said, hey, I'm going

466
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: to lunch with these guys. You know, why don't you

467
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: come along. I didn't even tell me who they were.

468
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: And they were just having a conversation. And at some point,

469
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: you know, they revealed that they were you know, they

470
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: were managers and and uh, at some point I said

471
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: they were interested in managing me. I said, wow, you know,

472
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 1: you know, about forty years too late, but hey, let's

473
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: let's you know, and I just I just liked them.

474
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: I like, I just liked them both as two guys,

475
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: and I liked them personally, you know, I got I

476
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: kind of kind of got to know. I mean that

477
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: one conversation before you know, before they became my managers.

478
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: But I just kind of like them. And uh, and

479
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: I thought, well, you know, let's see, let's see what

480
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: happens here. Let's see what we can do. Because I've

481
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: always wanted to have a manager, So let's give it

482
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: a try. Let's go back to the beginning. Okay, you know,

483
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:19,280
Speaker 1: you start Massachusetts, but you really grow up in New Jersey.

484
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: What kind of kid were you? Were you the leader

485
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: of the gang? You remember the gang? You're a guy

486
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: off to the side, you have friends, you didn't have friends.

487
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:37,479
Speaker 1: I was a small kid. Um um, yeah, I wouldn't, wouldn't.

488
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say as the leader of a gang. I

489
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: probably UH had that inclination right from you know, birth,

490
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: to be more of the sideman or the guy you know,

491
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: off the side or behind the guy. You know. I

492
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: don't remember very often, uh being the leader of the gang.

493
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: Once in a while, I find myself in that position.

494
00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 1: I remember after seeing the West Side Story movie. Uh,

495
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 1: we started having gangs in in suburban junior high school.

496
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 1: I guess it was let we see one of that

497
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,880
Speaker 1: fifty seven fifty nine when that movie was like six one,

498
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: early sixties, right, Yeah, So I'm like cannon whatever whatever,

499
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: whatever grade you're in, the ten eleven and I remember,

500
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 1: I remember I did start that gang. And and and

501
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: and during a lunchtime or whenever people went outside recessed, Uh,

502
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: we would we would have knife fights with with pens,

503
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 1: and we would write on each other, you know, whoever

504
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: wrote the most on each other, you know one and uh,

505
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: and I was. I was the leader of that one.

506
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: And of course we got busted and getting that a

507
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: lot of trouble, Uh, but other than that, you know,

508
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: I was kind of one of the guys. You know,

509
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: my my neighbors were older. My one of my best

510
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: friends lived behind me was a year older. So um,

511
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: you know, the older guys always would be the more

512
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 1: of the leaders in any situation. And I don't know,

513
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:19,720
Speaker 1: I just was like a lost little kid, kind of

514
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: just waiting for destiny to speak. I remember hating being

515
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: a kid. I do remember that distinctly. I wanted to

516
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: grow up and get on with it. And and then,

517
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: you know, uh, thirteen years old and uh, Kennedy gets

518
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: shot on my thirteenth birthday, your birthday, November, And uh okay,

519
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: well let's go back to November, your thirteen. I certainly

520
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: remember that day. Did you have plans to have a

521
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 1: celebration party? Yeah? Yeah, and uh, you know, to show

522
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,719
Speaker 1: you how politically where I was back then, that's all

523
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 1: I was concerned with. It was like, you know, the

524
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: party gonna happen or not, you know, yeah, but soon

525
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: just after that, right, just four months later, you know,

526
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: the big bang. Okay, wait, wait, wait, let's not get

527
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 1: there for a seconds. Hey, good student, mediocre student, bad student.

528
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: I was a good student, very good. Ever thought of

529
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 1: you know, going through college, what your parents say, did

530
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: you miss you know what we are your thoughts there?

531
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: It was, it was a thought. My parents wanted me

532
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: very much to go to college. Um. I had a

533
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: couple of advanced classes in fact heading that way, like calculus,

534
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 1: believe it, and physics and the certain kinds of physics

535
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: classes and a couple of couple of different things. Yeah. Um.

536
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: Uh so at that point, you know, you're trying to

537
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: find in the normal route into society. I thought it

538
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,879
Speaker 1: was gonna be college. Yeah. Okay, but let's go back

539
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: to the earlier days. Beatles are in sixty four. Did

540
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: you have a transistor? Were you a sports kid? Listened

541
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 1: to the sports? Um, not big on sports, No, but

542
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: you had a transistory, remember getting a transistory? Yeah yeah, yeah, Yeah,

543
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: that's how I heard the Beatles. Okay, you listening Were

544
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,080
Speaker 1: you listening to you know, this is all New York radio,

545
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: w m C A, w ABC Tentendons. Were you listening

546
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:42,360
Speaker 1: to those before the Beatles? Oh? Yeah. We had great

547
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: radio all along, all along, uh fifties into the early sixties. Uh.

548
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: The radio was was terrific. We were much luckier than

549
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 1: our than our British brothers and sisters who uh literally

550
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 1: had nothing until until until Pirates, you know until okay,

551
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: but when but you were listening, you were an active

552
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,320
Speaker 1: music listener before the Beatles. Yeah, I I bought a

553
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: couple of dozen singles. You know, I remember what some

554
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 1: of those were? Oh yeah, yeah, first was Tears on

555
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:22,440
Speaker 1: My Pillow, Little Anthony, the imperials um Uh. Poison Ivy

556
00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: was given to me by my aunt because I had

557
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:31,640
Speaker 1: poison ivy. I bought, you know, uh Sherry. Uh. Mid

558
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,360
Speaker 1: four Seasons were huge, Twist and Shop by the Isley Brothers,

559
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:41,560
Speaker 1: Palisades Park, A Little Prittle, Angelis, Duke of Earl, you

560
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: know you casting down? Uh you know those those were

561
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: those were just uh really really great great singles. Willie

562
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:56,359
Speaker 1: Still Love Me Tomorrow, the Rills? How about the Beach

563
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: Boys in any West Coast stuff? You know, I didn't.

564
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't really like the Beach Boys for

565
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: the West Coast stuff. Now, No, I didn't. I didn't

566
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 1: get that whole thing. There's something, uh, you know, I

567
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know what it was. The college,

568
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: even though I thought of going to college, but the

569
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 1: whole fraternity vibe of them with the letters on the sweater,

570
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: and there was something that was just to turn off

571
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 1: to make that at that stage, you know. Um, I

572
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 1: mean that's why the Beatles was so shocking. It was

573
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: it was, it was, it was shockingly contemporary, you know.

574
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: I mean, and even the Four Seasons, which is the

575
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,879
Speaker 1: other group that survived the Beatles, and then the only

576
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 1: two that did, you know, is the Beach Toys in

577
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: the fourth Theasters, and of course the Motown and Soul stuff.

578
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:47,560
Speaker 1: But but the Four Seasons you know again, you know,

579
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 1: they looked like your Italian uncles. I mean, you know,

580
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 1: you love them. You love the records, I mean various records,

581
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 1: among the greatest records of ad. I mean, you know,

582
00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 1: one one phenomenal thing after the other. Sherry Big Girls

583
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: will Cry, walked like a man, big man in town,

584
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 1: Ronnie rag Dolls, rag Dolls, I get it, you know,

585
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 1: Marlena Candy Girl. Let mean, you know, phenomenal stuff, phenomenal stuff.

586
00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: But you know, you didn't really, you know, you didn't wanna.

587
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,759
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be them, you know whatever, for

588
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:27,800
Speaker 1: whatever reason, you know, And and it was it was

589
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: the British invasion that just okay, you know, So when

590
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: did you personally first hear the Beatles. I was in

591
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: bed under the coverage with my transistor radio, and I

592
00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: remember my brother would listen also, he was in the

593
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: next bed. We're both in the same room and older, younger, younger.

594
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 1: He's seven years younger. Uh because uh, you know, my

595
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: mother remarried when I was seven, and that's how I

596
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: got and that's how an Italian kid gets a Dutch name.

597
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: And so I had a I had a brother and

598
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: sister that came along at that point. But I remember,

599
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 1: like it was yesterday. They you know, you're digging whatever's

600
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: on the radio, and that's all great. I want to

601
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,399
Speaker 1: hold your hand. Comes on and they hit the high

602
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: note and me and my brother burst out laughing just spontaneously,

603
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 1: you know, and I and I you know, and I've

604
00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: been analyzing that ever since, you know, which it comes

605
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: down to. The Bells had just hit on something remarkable

606
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: that obviously came from the fifties, came from all the

607
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 1: the do Op and certainly Everly Brothers and and everybody

608
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: else and Roy Orbison and all all of them. But

609
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 1: but but they had taken it to some new level

610
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 1: and communicated just unbridled joy somehow there was some something

611
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 1: joyous in in that in in their music that was

612
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 1: uh new. It was just new and unexplainable really uh

613
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 1: and man, it was just like, uh, just a you know,

614
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: just a volcano. You know. The culture was just transformed

615
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: overnight completely. Okay, So the record I Want to Hold

616
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,640
Speaker 1: Your Hand forget the stuff on VJ before because we

617
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: didn't know about it then. So I Want to Hold

618
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:40,240
Speaker 1: You And it's actually released at the end of December,

619
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,560
Speaker 1: but literally after the first of the year. It's gigantic.

620
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,320
Speaker 1: Beatles are not on until February. Did you buy the single?

621
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 1: And then there was She Loves You Would All Get You.

622
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: On the end there was Meet the Beatles. How active

623
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: were you before they were on? Ed Sullivan? Yeah, no, no,

624
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 1: uh very Uh. That was the first. That was the

625
00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: first album I ever bought, which we thought was the first.

626
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:03,439
Speaker 1: We thought was their first album. Of course it turns

627
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: out to be their second, right, Um, but but that

628
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:09,880
Speaker 1: was my album buying, you know. That was the beginning

629
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: of album buying for me. Uh. And then and then yeah,

630
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,840
Speaker 1: whatever you could find at that point, they you know, VJ,

631
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:25,239
Speaker 1: the Swan something was on Swan you know uh and

632
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:30,040
Speaker 1: uh and actually their first album kind of snuck out

633
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,120
Speaker 1: there and on some maybe on DJ, also on j

634
00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: R introducing the Beatles. Yeah, yeah, yeah, uh. We couldn't

635
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,440
Speaker 1: get enough. We couldn't we could not get enough. I mean,

636
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: there's never been a sonic takeover like like that, like that,

637
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: I mean, as everybody knows. I'm sure you know, by

638
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 1: April they had the top five singles, uh, and another

639
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,439
Speaker 1: fifteen or twenty on the charts at the same time,

640
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:04,720
Speaker 1: you know, but the top five singles, uh yeah, nobody

641
00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,440
Speaker 1: want to hear anything else. I mean, but you know,

642
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:11,439
Speaker 1: but soon there would be other British invaders that would

643
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 1: do quite well. They've five We're right on their heels,

644
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 1: and and and and glad all over with would replace

645
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: uh uh one of one of them on one of

646
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,560
Speaker 1: the Beatles songs, and then you know it's just one

647
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 1: one after the other. Hermit's, Hermits, the animals, and then

648
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: you know, stones, yard birds. Okay, so I certainly remember

649
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: this era before the Beatles was a folk era. Every

650
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:43,000
Speaker 1: household had a nylon string guitar. People would play a

651
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: few chords. The Beatles hit overnight, people are growing there

652
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: here and getting guitars. What was going on with you? No, no, no, no,

653
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: you're not exaggerating. I mean literally, February eight, nobody had

654
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,640
Speaker 1: a band. You didn't see band. You know, the four

655
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: or five guys singing and playing didn't exist. You know. Uh,

656
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: you went to your high school dance. It was an

657
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: instrumental band, alright. So February nine, they played this variety

658
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: show that the whole family watched on Sunday nights. February

659
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 1: tent everybody had a band in the garage, and I

660
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 1: am telling you everybody you know it. It changed the

661
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: culture overnight and it would continue really throughout the entire sixties.

662
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 1: When you went out at night and had to have fun.

663
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:35,839
Speaker 1: I mean you might go to driving Okay, to see

664
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 1: a movie. Other than that, you went out to see

665
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 1: a band, or in my case, you will actually be

666
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: playing in a band. But bands took over the culture

667
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:49,959
Speaker 1: after that, Uh, in a really you know, fun positive way.

668
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 1: That was all you did. I mean there was no

669
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:57,000
Speaker 1: one through remind your younger younger listeners. Uh, there was

670
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 1: no internet or cell phones or video games or you know,

671
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: there wasn't a lot of distractions. We did have a

672
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 1: good six seven, eight, fantastic rock and roll TV shows

673
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: on in those days for about a year and a half,

674
00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: which I think looking back was quite remarkable. But mostly,

675
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:21,280
Speaker 1: you know, it was radio and going out and seeing

676
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: bands and so um the the you know you. We

677
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,800
Speaker 1: were just so lucky to be that generation because that

678
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: meant there were lots of places to play. And I

679
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,399
Speaker 1: mean right through high school we were booked all the time.

680
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:42,759
Speaker 1: Uh and uh, how did you did you have play

681
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: any instrument prior to the Beatles? How did you pick

682
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: up the guitar? And how did you form a band? No,

683
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,720
Speaker 1: my first two bands I was I was the lead singer,

684
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:53,399
Speaker 1: so I didn't learn how to play guitar for about

685
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 1: a year or two. But I started early, just before

686
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: the Beatles hit. My grandfather, from my Italian grand father

687
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 1: from from you know, my mother's father, who was from Calabria,

688
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 1: showed me the song of his village, a little melody

689
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,319
Speaker 1: that was just uh. I guess every every town had

690
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: their little theme song. I guess. Uh, So he he

691
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: was showing me that. I and I wasn't you know,

692
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: crazy about playing guitar as much as I wanted to

693
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 1: spend time with my grandfather. Tell you truth, you know

694
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: what I mean. It was that kind of thing. Um,

695
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 1: but I got like a I don't know, six month

696
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: head start before everybody else but guitars, and then UM

697
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 1: sixty four, you know, right in the sixty five. I

698
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 1: didn't really UM start for my my my, my main band,

699
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 1: the Source, uh started in sixties six, at which point

700
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 1: I'm playing lead guitar. So it took me. Uh, it

701
00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:06,720
Speaker 1: took me a couple of years, I guess to get there. Okay,

702
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,720
Speaker 1: a lot of people from that era, and you've certainly

703
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:11,919
Speaker 1: met all of them. I've certainly met some of them.

704
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: They're not really that talkative. Their personality is so much,

705
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 1: but they get on stage, they light up, the music

706
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: speaks through them, and their whole life opens up. The

707
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,280
Speaker 1: girls all on them. So you're now the lead singer

708
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: of a band, then the lead guitarist of band. How

709
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 1: does your life change? You know? What was really uh funny, ironic?

710
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, we're watching Hard Day's Night,

711
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 1: you know, which is just the uh you know, primer, primer.

712
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,960
Speaker 1: How do you say that for how to be in

713
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 1: a rock and roll you know? You you hope UM

714
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: and the girls did not like us who were in

715
00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:01,239
Speaker 1: a band. It was first of all, the whole rock

716
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 1: star concept at that point was English. You know you

717
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: if you weren't English, you were kind of irrelevant. And

718
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: and in our in our area, in our school, the

719
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: girls still like the football players, you know. And uh,

720
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: you were just kind of freaky. To be honest, it

721
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't like you were cool to be in

722
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: a band in the sixties. It was more freaking a

723
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: freakiness about you, uh, because it was it wasn't a

724
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 1: business phill seventies, first of all. And before that, like

725
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,040
Speaker 1: I said, it was this kind of a British thing.

726
00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: They just kind of owned it. So you were just,

727
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, some kind of want to be I guess,

728
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,720
Speaker 1: or something but not considered cool or something that girls

729
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: desired certainly, you know. Uh, you know, so your life

730
00:46:56,320 --> 00:47:01,560
Speaker 1: doesn't really change other than my life taking on a

731
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: bit of a purpose, which which was a big, you know,

732
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:06,879
Speaker 1: a big thing for a kid. Man. You know, you're looking,

733
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: You're looking, You're wondering, you know, where are you going

734
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,440
Speaker 1: in this world? Man? And I'm telling you right now,

735
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,839
Speaker 1: I was having a lot of problems trying to sit

736
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: in trying to think of where I fit in before

737
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: the Beatles hit, and then I always tie it together.

738
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 1: And then four months later the Wronging Stones came. So

739
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: it's always have been a fifty fifty thing for me. Um,

740
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,920
Speaker 1: you know, because the Beatles were just you know, yes,

741
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 1: they revealed the new world, but they were just way

742
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 1: too good to think that you could do it, you know,

743
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,160
Speaker 1: and they this were we caught them halfway through the career.

744
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: You know, they're singing together since fifty seven. They were

745
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 1: going to sixty nine. You know, here we are there,

746
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 1: there's phenomenal. Okay, the harmony is ridiculously perfect. The hair

747
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 1: is perfect, the clothes, every everything's perfect. And four months

748
00:47:58,040 --> 00:48:01,440
Speaker 1: later it comes to the Wrong Stones. A little more casual,

749
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 1: a lot more casual. Uh the hair is not perfect

750
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: except for Brian Jones. Uh low harmony whatsoever. You know,

751
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: they made it look easier than it was. They really

752
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 1: were at the first punk band in every sense of

753
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 1: the word. But they made they made it may they

754
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 1: made it look easier than it was. And uh so

755
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: you know, I always say that the Beatles revealed this

756
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 1: new world and they're only Stones invited us. And okay,

757
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,840
Speaker 1: now the music change versus a British invasion then, and

758
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,480
Speaker 1: these are not strict demarcations, but I'll throw them out

759
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: there anyway. You have the folk rock of the Birds,

760
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: then you have this sixties seven coming in with Jefferson Airplane, etcetera.

761
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 1: Did you like all kinds of music? Because you remember

762
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,320
Speaker 1: this was on Saturday night on w ABC, they'd have

763
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: wars between the Beatles and the Stones. You know, were

764
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: you a fan of everything or was there certain stuff? No,

765
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: I like this and I don't like that. Well, you

766
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 1: had some of that going on. But but we were

767
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 1: surprisingly a model culture at that point. I mean, you know,

768
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 1: not strictly but but but very much so in a

769
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 1: country that you know, it was the only country ever

770
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 1: created that was not a model culture. Uh. You know,

771
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: we were a culture of ideas, many of which were

772
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:25,800
Speaker 1: still trying to implement um but we but musically we

773
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:28,279
Speaker 1: were very much a model culture. And and like you say,

774
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 1: the trends went year by year in those days and

775
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,880
Speaker 1: pretty much followed by everybody, you know, which was a

776
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: great education because you know, you pick up a little

777
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:39,360
Speaker 1: bit of this, pick up a little bit of that.

778
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,040
Speaker 1: Some people stayed in that in that certain mode. I

779
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 1: mean sixty four British of Rage, sixty five folk rock,

780
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 1: sixty six, Blues rock sixty seven, Psychedelics, sixty eight country Rocks,

781
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 1: and then sixty nine the Southern the Southern white gospel

782
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 1: blues thing with Glania Bonni and all the rest. Uh.

783
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:02,480
Speaker 1: And you kind of went from trend to trend, and

784
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:07,439
Speaker 1: everybody did um right up until seventies, at which point

785
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 1: it did fragment and uh and become hybrids after that. Um.

786
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 1: But but you kind of kind of you tended to

787
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 1: like everything. I mean, there any moments where yeah, you know,

788
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:23,879
Speaker 1: it might have a Beatles versus Stones discussion or um,

789
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: you know, Jeff Beck group versus led Zeppelin discussion you know,

790
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: later on. Uh, but you tended to kind of like everything.

791
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: I mean, those those those who's better than who we

792
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:39,320
Speaker 1: were kind of phony arguments to begin with. Okay, you

793
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 1: bring up a couple of things. Who's the best guitarist

794
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:49,399
Speaker 1: to ever according to you? Well, there's two, Uh, there's

795
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:53,839
Speaker 1: sort of two errors of guitar. Uh. There's the sixties era,

796
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 1: which there's no doubt about. I don't think anybody would

797
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:01,759
Speaker 1: disagree that Jimi Hendrix was the greatest guitar player that

798
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:08,479
Speaker 1: ever lived. Um, the sixties guy that ended up still

799
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 1: blowing minds is Jeff Beck. Now you go see Jeff

800
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: Beck right now, and he will blow your mind right now,

801
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 1: you know, And and and and never Clapton will say

802
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 1: the same thing, and Jimmy Page will say the same thing.

803
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 1: Last time I saw Jeff back, Jimmy Page was standing

804
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:25,920
Speaker 1: next to me and just as awestruck as I was,

805
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: you know. But they all pay homage to Jimi Hendrix.

806
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 1: He just was from another planet, you know. And then

807
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: then there's a whole second era of modern guitar styles

808
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: coming from the Eddie van Halen, you know, hammering. It's

809
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: a whole different, whole different style which I never got into.

810
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: But there's a whole there's dozens of modern show called

811
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,240
Speaker 1: the modern arrow guitar players that are you know, Steve

812
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: I and those guys that are remarkable technically, just just

813
00:51:55,640 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 1: beyond belief technically. But that's a whole different style that

814
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:02,239
Speaker 1: I never, I never got into. So it was for me,

815
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 1: it was just the four amount rushmore pretty much was

816
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,800
Speaker 1: was was was clapped in uh back Page and Hendrix

817
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 1: and and and in a very special place in my

818
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: heart for Mike Bloomfield, who was important to me, you know,

819
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:23,239
Speaker 1: Paul Butterfield's guitar player and later form the Electric Flag. Um,

820
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: but he Uh, but you know those are guys, you know,

821
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: for for me. Okay, favorite Beatles album, Favorite Stones album.

822
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 1: You know that changes every day, Um, no, no doubt

823
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: about it. The most important Beatles album obviously was Sergeant

824
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:42,799
Speaker 1: Pepper's only last club band, which, Uh, I don't care

825
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: how much revisionism there goes on. Yes, Revolver it was

826
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 1: more innovative. Revolver has better songs song by song, Yes,

827
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: we all agree with that. But Sergeant Pepper was the

828
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:59,080
Speaker 1: most important cultural moment that I can remember. Uh, every

829
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 1: every story walked down the street that wherever it was

830
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 1: June one, sixty seven, every single store was playing it,

831
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 1: you know, every restaurant, every clothing story. You know, this

832
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 1: is an amazing, amazing moment when all of Western culture

833
00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 1: was celebrating the same, the same piece of work. Um. Favorite,

834
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: you know, my favorite Beatles album probably it's probably Helped Um. Um,

835
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 1: that's my favorite. Seven seven Beatles songs in a row. Uh.

836
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:39,320
Speaker 1: But Harriday's Night was terrific. Beatles for Sale, terrific, you

837
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:41,680
Speaker 1: know they I like the I like the early stuff.

838
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:46,480
Speaker 1: You know, I liked it from pretty much those you know,

839
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 1: from Hortidays night beals for sale. Help. I love that

840
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:56,399
Speaker 1: period the most Stones, Uh for me, twelve by five

841
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 1: two of my favorite Stones albums don't exist in England,

842
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:06,719
Speaker 1: which is twelve by five and uh December children. Um

843
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 1: that's why you know, we we we used the American

844
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 1: Stones albums as the real thing, and of course the

845
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:17,879
Speaker 1: British Beatles albums as as the real configurations. You know. Um,

846
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,319
Speaker 1: but you know the record company actually did the did

847
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:25,600
Speaker 1: the right thing with Stones, uh, twelve by five for me,

848
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 1: you know, and then then you have the second Stones,

849
00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 1: the second great Stones evera of course is the four

850
00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:35,200
Speaker 1: remarkable you know, Beggar's Banquet, Let it Bleed, sticky Fingers

851
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 1: and Exile. You know, you know, the two errors are

852
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: are both amazing to me. But I but I actually

853
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 1: I enjoyed the early stuff. I love I love the covers.

854
00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 1: I love the covers, you know, Beatles and Stones, you know,

855
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 1: I think that's a real true measurement of greatness. And

856
00:54:55,600 --> 00:54:57,400
Speaker 1: and usually it's the it's the guys who went up

857
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 1: go on to write the best songs, just do the

858
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 1: best cover version, and uh, I have a great respect

859
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 1: for cover versions, and I think it's an extremely important

860
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:11,640
Speaker 1: part of rock education that many many people are skipping

861
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: these days. I think two best covers who by those

862
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 1: two bands? No, No, two best covers period. Oh jeez,

863
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,320
Speaker 1: that's the whole get the whole radio show on that.

864
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:30,839
Speaker 1: Um well there's you know. I I in the book,

865
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: I talked about the various rules for how to make

866
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: a cover song on your own and the one the

867
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 1: one that the one to check all the boxes? Uh

868
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: as the middle of Fudge you keep me hanging on,

869
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 1: but certainly close to that is you know, Jimmy Hendricks

870
00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,240
Speaker 1: so along to watch Tower, you know, one of the greatest.

871
00:55:50,320 --> 00:55:53,839
Speaker 1: And Joe Cocker is a little health with my friends. Um,

872
00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: those three I think probably stand out as three and

873
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 1: three the greatest. Let's go look. Decade later, Soft Cell

874
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 1: read does Tainted Love and matches it with where Did

875
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,600
Speaker 1: Our Love Go? And I did not know the original

876
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:11,880
Speaker 1: Tainted Love? Did you? And what do you think of

877
00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 1: those two songs put together by Soft Cell? No? I

878
00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 1: I didn't know it either. Um um, I wasn't really

879
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 1: into them that whole uh you know whatever that was

880
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 1: called the New wave. I wasn't a big new waiver,

881
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 1: so I didn't like the whole synthesizer MTV thing. You know. Um,

882
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,239
Speaker 1: they make an exception or two to the rule, but

883
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: they weren't it. Okay. So one thing you say in

884
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:45,080
Speaker 1: the book, which blows my mind because I use it

885
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:48,760
Speaker 1: all the time, is we lived through the Renaissance, okay.

886
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 1: And I tell people today when people say, oh, music

887
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:53,200
Speaker 1: today is just as good as it ever was, they said, no,

888
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 1: we lived through the Renaissance. They had a Renaissance and

889
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: painting and sculpture in England. They've been painting and sculptor since.

890
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:06,080
Speaker 1: But there was only one Renaissance. Okay. But in your

891
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,960
Speaker 1: book I get the impression. Well, let me just ask

892
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 1: you straight. The Renaissance starts with the Beatles. When does

893
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: it end? It's a good question, um, and arguably, uh,

894
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 1: you could you could clock it. I mean, the full

895
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 1: Naissance and Renaissance was you know, about twenty years, you know,

896
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: fifty one to about seventy one. But you can go

897
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 1: into the mid seventies if you you know, and I

898
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't argue too much about that, especially if you're including

899
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 1: other arts. You know, if you're including movies, um and

900
00:57:40,160 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: other you know other other other, you know, other important books,

901
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 1: film paintings. You know, you may want to go into

902
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 1: the seventies. The high the high point would be this

903
00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 1: sixty four to seventy one, seventy two from you know

904
00:57:57,680 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: the Beatles to um either Exile on Main Street or

905
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:07,760
Speaker 1: or or the who uh what's it called? Who's Next?

906
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 1: With the Who's Next is in seventy one, Quadraphenia in

907
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: seventy three. Yeah, I see, you want to you want

908
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: to include that, so you know, somewhere in there, somewhere

909
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:22,880
Speaker 1: in there, you know, um different than the rock era,

910
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 1: which I clocked from like a rolling stone, the Kirt

911
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 1: Coby's death almost exactly thirty years. But the renaissance for

912
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 1: for for me was was that. Yeah, sixties into the

913
00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:39,240
Speaker 1: into the seventies. Okay. Conventional wisdom is rock is dead.

914
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:43,200
Speaker 1: What do you think about that? Well, I think that's

915
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 1: true in the industry sense of the word. However, we're

916
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:53,480
Speaker 1: still the biggest thing live and I think that that

917
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 1: will continue to be true. It's a very important part

918
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 1: of of the of the rock art form is live performance.

919
00:59:04,000 --> 00:59:07,760
Speaker 1: It's uh, unlike any other art form in that sense.

920
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 1: I think and we still remain I think, the biggest

921
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: thing live and always will at least while while our

922
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:18,640
Speaker 1: generation is still going. Uh, we're not being replaced, unfortunately.

923
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 1: But I'm trying to make up for that with my

924
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: radio format and my music education program and and my

925
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:28,520
Speaker 1: record company and everything else I've been doing. For the

926
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 1: last twenty five years, I've been trying to trying to

927
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 1: preserve this endangered species called rock. Um. But it's it's

928
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 1: it's it's not part of the industry anymore. I mean,

929
00:59:41,120 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 1: they don't, you know, and I really piste off that

930
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 1: they don't even bother to broadcasted on the Grammys anymore.

931
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 1: It's it's it's really really uh enraging. You know, when

932
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,320
Speaker 1: we ran the world. You know, when rock ran the world,

933
00:59:56,640 --> 01:00:00,560
Speaker 1: we included everybody, you know, we didn't pick them off

934
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: the telecast and say, by the way, the Rock Awards

935
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 1: went to so and so. You know, I mean, you know,

936
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 1: it's it's this that's really wrong. But but anyway, that's

937
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,360
Speaker 1: just an example of how how dead it is. They

938
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:19,800
Speaker 1: don't even bother showing them under Grammys anymore. Um. And

939
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 1: you know, the last time with rock and roll song

940
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:25,640
Speaker 1: gonna in top forty I don't even remember. You know,

941
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 1: there's no more hit singles that are that are rocking. Okay,

942
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 1: let's talk about rock, because there is rock and there's

943
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 1: the active rock format. I have a theory about this.

944
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:40,520
Speaker 1: I remember when led Zeppelin was considered heavy metal and

945
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 1: Black Sabbath was too far out. Now after Black I

946
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 1: forget the number of years, but in terms of sound,

947
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 1: from Black Sabbath you go to Metallica, and then from

948
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 1: metalli you can go even further off, such that if

949
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: you want to listen to what they call active rock,

950
01:00:54,920 --> 01:00:58,560
Speaker 1: you have to have an education encyclopedia to get that far,

951
01:00:58,840 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: because it's not really the year appealing from the beginning,

952
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:04,720
Speaker 1: whereas we grew up in in her Of course, the

953
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 1: Beatles are definitive. They all had good voices, They wrote

954
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 1: songs with melodies, they had choruses, their bridges. Is this

955
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: just a lost art like the Mayans. Couldn't we just

956
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 1: put that together and have hit songs again? I think, truthfully,

957
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 1: I think all that went to Nashville, you know it

958
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 1: kind of it still exists there, right, I mean, you know,

959
01:01:31,920 --> 01:01:34,880
Speaker 1: I gotta I got a second format on serious satellite

960
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: called well Country, and that resembles the old rock world

961
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 1: more than the modern rock world resembles the old rock world.

962
01:01:45,880 --> 01:01:47,560
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I think all that went to

963
01:01:48,080 --> 01:01:52,000
Speaker 1: went the country music. Uh, you know, so I'm glad

964
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:56,360
Speaker 1: it exists somewhere. But other than that, yeah, it's a

965
01:01:56,520 --> 01:01:59,720
Speaker 1: it's a very different Uh, it's a very different pop

966
01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:03,440
Speaker 1: war now. And uh and uh, I'm not sure there

967
01:02:03,560 --> 01:02:06,240
Speaker 1: is a rock world really, you know. Yeah, there's a

968
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 1: heavy a heart, the hard stuff. Yeah, the hard stuff

969
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 1: still exists, but they they've gotten that's become almost an

970
01:02:13,720 --> 01:02:16,440
Speaker 1: intellectual part of the art form, you know, in a

971
01:02:16,520 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 1: funny way. Uh. My friend, uh, my friend Max Weinberg's

972
01:02:23,120 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: son Jay wasn't one of those bands. And and uh

973
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,240
Speaker 1: and then early and one of his early heavy metal bands.

974
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: I went to see them and and and it was

975
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:40,000
Speaker 1: extraordinarily complex. I mean it was it was like Bebop

976
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: times on steroids. I mean, very complex musically, a very

977
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:53,640
Speaker 1: high level of of of technical proficiency. They go all

978
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 1: over the place, and they all stopped together. And I

979
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:59,480
Speaker 1: was like, how did they possibly stopped together at that moment?

980
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 1: I can't, I couldn't. I couldn't understand it. I couldn't

981
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:08,720
Speaker 1: analyze it. It was so complicated, you know, so it's

982
01:03:08,760 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 1: become almost uh an intellectual uh you know, in a

983
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: funny way, an intellectual pursuit. You know, it appeals to

984
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 1: an intellect as much as the venting of frustration, which

985
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 1: is how we mostly associate with with with hard rock.

986
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 1: There's something there's a whole another level of technical uh

987
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 1: you know, expertise going on with that, with that world.

988
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:34,920
Speaker 1: But I don't, you know, I don't of course I

989
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:38,320
Speaker 1: don't relate to it directly. But you know, those rooms

990
01:03:38,360 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 1: for everybody, and you know, God blessed. But but uh,

991
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:43,880
Speaker 1: you know, but as far as the stuff that we

992
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 1: grew up with, you know, you gotta, you gotta, you

993
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:48,680
Speaker 1: gotta listen to my radio station if you want to

994
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 1: hear that. Okay, was it in your book where you

995
01:03:52,560 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 1: pooh pooed Americana? Um? No um they started. I think

996
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:07,240
Speaker 1: that that format started um trying to copy an idea

997
01:04:07,320 --> 01:04:10,760
Speaker 1: I had. I didn't really, I didn't put it down.

998
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:16,720
Speaker 1: It's it's it's fine. But I was discussing what became

999
01:04:16,800 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 1: out Wall Country with somebody in Nashville who had a

1000
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:25,960
Speaker 1: discussion with the guy who started Americana. It was very

1001
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 1: either extraordinarily coincidental or I think it came from that discussion.

1002
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,000
Speaker 1: And he didn't do exactly my format. He didn't do this,

1003
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:37,240
Speaker 1: He didn't do the format exactly as I described it.

1004
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:40,760
Speaker 1: But it was closed, and so I didn't. I don't

1005
01:04:40,760 --> 01:04:43,560
Speaker 1: think I put it down, you know. Okay, you know

1006
01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:46,200
Speaker 1: I read so much as I said. It wasn't abviously sure, Okay.

1007
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:50,200
Speaker 1: One of the times I saw Tom Petty before he died,

1008
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:55,240
Speaker 1: he played a week at the fond Uh and he

1009
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 1: played I won a couple of nights. They played different

1010
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:00,880
Speaker 1: songs and he played an old country song he called

1011
01:05:01,120 --> 01:05:06,080
Speaker 1: country music today rock of the seventies. Okay. Now, on

1012
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:09,240
Speaker 1: one hand, we have those people. Another hand, the most

1013
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:14,960
Speaker 1: respected artist in Nashville is Chris Stapleton, who is great

1014
01:05:15,360 --> 01:05:19,280
Speaker 1: on Eddie front. So do you pay attention to that scene?

1015
01:05:19,720 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: Do you have thoughts about that scene? Yeah? They You know,

1016
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:25,280
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't pay as much attention as I

1017
01:05:25,320 --> 01:05:27,360
Speaker 1: should because it is it is one of my formats.

1018
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:31,600
Speaker 1: But we we championed the new artists, just like we

1019
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 1: do on the rock side. And so I think there

1020
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 1: was a very very healthy scene there and and uh

1021
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:41,479
Speaker 1: and I agree, and I like I we talked about

1022
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:43,959
Speaker 1: this in a minute ago. I think I think most

1023
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: of what you were describing as as melodic, interesting chord

1024
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 1: changes and melodies and and and artists expressing themselves now

1025
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:58,680
Speaker 1: lives in country music and initial you know, the you

1026
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:03,479
Speaker 1: know Staple or the Jason Is Bells and whoever else

1027
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 1: you know, the uh they you know, and and I

1028
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 1: think that's that's a healthy thing, you know. We you know,

1029
01:06:11,320 --> 01:06:14,480
Speaker 1: the outlaw country format is all three generations of Hank Williams,

1030
01:06:15,040 --> 01:06:18,880
Speaker 1: you know, because uh, you know, once once, uh, a

1031
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 1: friend of mine told me that they weren't playing Johnny

1032
01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 1: Cash in country radio anymore. I'm like, well, then it's

1033
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:27,040
Speaker 1: time for a new format. I'm sorry. You know. That's

1034
01:06:27,080 --> 01:06:29,440
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why I started it, to make

1035
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:34,920
Speaker 1: sure that were you aware of country music in that period? Yeah, yeah, um,

1036
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 1: you know, not again not living it, but aware of it,

1037
01:06:40,040 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 1: you know. And uh, and I just I liked a

1038
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:46,240
Speaker 1: lot of that generation, you know. I like Merl Haggard,

1039
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:50,640
Speaker 1: you know, in spite of his you know, yeah, and

1040
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 1: me being a hippie, you know exactly. I love Johnny

1041
01:06:56,720 --> 01:07:00,440
Speaker 1: Cash and and uh, you know, and and a back

1042
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,400
Speaker 1: way back to Hank Williams and and uh and uh

1043
01:07:04,160 --> 01:07:06,760
Speaker 1: you know the Outlaws, you know, Christis Stofferson and Willan

1044
01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:11,040
Speaker 1: and Willie Jennings. You know. Uh I like that generation

1045
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:14,120
Speaker 1: a lot. They just uh there was just something cool

1046
01:07:14,160 --> 01:07:17,200
Speaker 1: about them. Okay, So Crossby Stools and Nash comes out

1047
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:19,560
Speaker 1: in sixty nine, we have the Eagles. In seventy two,

1048
01:07:19,960 --> 01:07:22,440
Speaker 1: we have Sweetheart of the Rodeo and sixty eight. Was

1049
01:07:22,600 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 1: that a sound that appealed to you not? Oh yeah, definitely.

1050
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:29,760
Speaker 1: We Well, like I said, we were, we were. We

1051
01:07:29,880 --> 01:07:32,120
Speaker 1: were following the trends in those days. And I think,

1052
01:07:32,240 --> 01:07:35,600
Speaker 1: and I say we, I think that's true about everybody.

1053
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:40,080
Speaker 1: We were all following those trends. And uh, country rock,

1054
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 1: Um it was big man, I was. I was. You know,

1055
01:07:44,760 --> 01:07:52,480
Speaker 1: I'm still huge fan of Young Bloods, Buffalo Springfield, Uh Birds,

1056
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 1: Find Burrito Brothers. Uh, we'll be great. You know these

1057
01:07:57,160 --> 01:08:00,920
Speaker 1: are country. This is country music for you know, country rock,

1058
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, I'm a big, big fan of it. Yes, Okay,

1059
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:09,240
Speaker 1: So let's talk about turning this decade sixties and seventies.

1060
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:12,240
Speaker 1: You're out of high school, You're playing what do I know,

1061
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 1: like everybody else, I had a guitar, I had played

1062
01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:18,639
Speaker 1: I'm to my friend Mark's house. We're playing our guitars

1063
01:08:18,680 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 1: because now we're going to change keys, and I said,

1064
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 1: I'm out. You know, did you ever what has it

1065
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:30,599
Speaker 1: always been hard work for you? Or did you ever

1066
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 1: fall in this side and say, wait a second, this

1067
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:34,400
Speaker 1: is my groove. I can do this. I live here.

1068
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 1: I'm as good as anybody, I think. You know, you're

1069
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 1: always you're always kind of improving, you know, I don't

1070
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:49,840
Speaker 1: know if I ever. I mean, once you start writing

1071
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:54,080
Speaker 1: your own shows, you know, your your own records, in

1072
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:56,800
Speaker 1: your own shows, obviously it's got to be. It's a

1073
01:08:56,920 --> 01:09:00,680
Speaker 1: it's a comfort zone because you've created it, you know. Um.

1074
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:05,519
Speaker 1: But other than other than that, you're always they're always

1075
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:10,599
Speaker 1: I don't know, learning looking to improve. Right, does anybody

1076
01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 1: intimidate you a musician just in terms of how good

1077
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:16,680
Speaker 1: they are? Um? Oh, man, there's a there's a whole

1078
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:23,840
Speaker 1: you know, kar Yeah, yeah, uh, you know. I mean,

1079
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:27,800
Speaker 1: it's glorious. It's just a glorious thing to witness a

1080
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:32,919
Speaker 1: great greatness in any form. You know, I'm I'm attractive

1081
01:09:32,960 --> 01:09:35,040
Speaker 1: to greatness in anything. I agree with you. It's like

1082
01:09:35,080 --> 01:09:37,560
Speaker 1: when you have a great sport, guy, great guy on

1083
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:40,560
Speaker 1: any of the dominance and to see them walk that

1084
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:43,959
Speaker 1: line Louis Hamilton and car racing the guy on Jeopardy.

1085
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:54,120
Speaker 1: So one of the big points in the book. And

1086
01:09:54,200 --> 01:09:58,080
Speaker 1: you really describe it well, the whole period that Bruce

1087
01:09:58,160 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 1: gets a record deal and said, you know, I guess

1088
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:02,639
Speaker 1: it with John Hammond and they think it's a folk record.

1089
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,240
Speaker 1: I remember for a long time the second album was

1090
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 1: my favorite. Second Bruce Wilde The Innocent, Okay, especially this.

1091
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:11,160
Speaker 1: I saw him in the bottom line the year before

1092
01:10:11,240 --> 01:10:14,559
Speaker 1: and seventy three, I mean seventy four, the year before, uh,

1093
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:19,360
Speaker 1: the born to run shows. But you say a couple

1094
01:10:19,439 --> 01:10:23,120
Speaker 1: of things. You say he was sold sold to John

1095
01:10:23,160 --> 01:10:25,599
Speaker 1: Hammond as a folk act, and certainly on that record

1096
01:10:25,680 --> 01:10:29,760
Speaker 1: the band is mixed way down. But I realized the

1097
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:33,840
Speaker 1: book is about you. But hey, were you very conscious

1098
01:10:33,880 --> 01:10:36,680
Speaker 1: of Bruce trying to get a deal record deal of

1099
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:40,599
Speaker 1: the Stravails And tell me exactly how you felt when

1100
01:10:40,640 --> 01:10:45,680
Speaker 1: you were left out in the initial recording situation. Um,

1101
01:10:46,479 --> 01:10:50,400
Speaker 1: I wasn't. Uh, I wasn't following it day day to day.

1102
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:53,320
Speaker 1: But but we were very very conscious of trying to

1103
01:10:53,479 --> 01:10:55,519
Speaker 1: get a record deal. That's where you that's you know,

1104
01:10:56,000 --> 01:11:00,200
Speaker 1: that was the whole idea to get into the business. Uh. Um.

1105
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 1: And and we were, you know, we had a different

1106
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:05,719
Speaker 1: band every three months, uh, you know, in that late sixties.

1107
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:09,639
Speaker 1: And at some point we realized, no matter what we did,

1108
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:13,040
Speaker 1: nobody's coming down from New York to discover us. And

1109
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 1: add great Park, I mean, even though it's only an

1110
01:11:15,360 --> 01:11:18,479
Speaker 1: hour and hour and a half away, might as well

1111
01:11:18,520 --> 01:11:23,280
Speaker 1: being I've been on the moon. So Bruce, being you know, smart,

1112
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:28,799
Speaker 1: I saw the singer songwriter trend coming. It was happening

1113
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 1: at that moment, which was the beginning of the fragmentation

1114
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:35,960
Speaker 1: at that point, you know, like I said, it was

1115
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:38,960
Speaker 1: it went from singer songwriter on the left to heavy

1116
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:44,400
Speaker 1: metal on the right, everything in between, um, singer songwriters.

1117
01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:48,240
Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, when I analyzed it, you know, I realized

1118
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 1: the difference between them and folk singers, you know, um,

1119
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:56,120
Speaker 1: which is pretty much semantics. But but but but the

1120
01:11:56,200 --> 01:12:00,760
Speaker 1: interesting thing additionally was all the singer songwriters had hit

1121
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:03,640
Speaker 1: you know, which was not the case with all the

1122
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 1: folks that you know. Uh. And I that struck me

1123
01:12:08,280 --> 01:12:12,559
Speaker 1: when I realized that. But anyway, Bruce kind of gets

1124
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:16,560
Speaker 1: in the trojan horse of singer songwriters, and then immediately,

1125
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:19,880
Speaker 1: you know, pisses everybody off by saying, I don't want

1126
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:22,240
Speaker 1: to make an acoustic record, you know, I want to

1127
01:12:22,240 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 1: I want to do a band record. And John Hammond

1128
01:12:25,439 --> 01:12:27,519
Speaker 1: was not happy about that. His managers were not happy

1129
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:33,280
Speaker 1: about that, nobody and so, um, we didn't have an

1130
01:12:33,320 --> 01:12:36,800
Speaker 1: existing band exactly at that moment. So he just kind

1131
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:40,600
Speaker 1: of started drawing in guys from different bands and we

1132
01:12:40,800 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 1: played with and of course I was one of them,

1133
01:12:43,680 --> 01:12:46,519
Speaker 1: and I turned out to be just you know, one

1134
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 1: guitar player too many. I mean, they weren't happy about

1135
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:52,519
Speaker 1: having a band at all, and they certainly didn't see

1136
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 1: any need for a second guitar. So I was rejected.

1137
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:03,479
Speaker 1: And and uh, I guess it hit me pretty hard.

1138
01:13:04,600 --> 01:13:09,479
Speaker 1: I was, you know, pretty disappointed about it. Uh. And

1139
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:11,640
Speaker 1: I kind of at that point I felt we had

1140
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:14,600
Speaker 1: missed the boat anyway, I really did. I felt like

1141
01:13:15,000 --> 01:13:17,639
Speaker 1: the great stuff has all been done, you know, it's

1142
01:13:17,720 --> 01:13:20,720
Speaker 1: it's it's it's kind of over. And I wasn't that

1143
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:23,880
Speaker 1: far wrong, by the way, but uh, you know, it

1144
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:27,160
Speaker 1: just kind of felt like, you know, it's redundant from

1145
01:13:27,200 --> 01:13:31,120
Speaker 1: now on. And so I wasn't I wasn't you know

1146
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:35,080
Speaker 1: too too depressed about it? But it was it was.

1147
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: It was depressing and disappointing, and I quit. I quit

1148
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:43,200
Speaker 1: the business at that point, and we're construction for two years. Okay,

1149
01:13:43,880 --> 01:13:47,840
Speaker 1: to what degree are those two things connected? Was the

1150
01:13:47,920 --> 01:13:50,600
Speaker 1: fact that you weren't included in the band? Was that

1151
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:55,000
Speaker 1: really what drove you to go to construction? Yeah? Because

1152
01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 1: I was in debt from a previous couple of bands.

1153
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:01,360
Speaker 1: We were, and we thought we were gonna be big,

1154
01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 1: and I bought a big amp uh and a van

1155
01:14:06,280 --> 01:14:08,280
Speaker 1: to carry it around in, you know, because I thought

1156
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:11,120
Speaker 1: we were gonna that was our big break, you know,

1157
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:13,519
Speaker 1: a couple of bands earlier. So I was in debt

1158
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:14,880
Speaker 1: and had to pay, you know how to get a

1159
01:14:14,880 --> 01:14:17,800
Speaker 1: straight job the first time in my life. How much

1160
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 1: did you hate it? Well? I I hated it, um,

1161
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:25,280
Speaker 1: but I but I started my mind immediately began to

1162
01:14:25,400 --> 01:14:32,720
Speaker 1: adjust to uh, accepting this as you know, this is it, man,

1163
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:37,800
Speaker 1: this is this is your life now, so adjust to it.

1164
01:14:38,040 --> 01:14:43,320
Speaker 1: And that was pretty good at doing that, I guess, um.

1165
01:14:44,720 --> 01:14:51,920
Speaker 1: But after two seasons going from you know, uh flagman

1166
01:14:52,200 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 1: on on on through two seven at six in the morning,

1167
01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 1: and you know, five degree weather, go all the way

1168
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:07,000
Speaker 1: to the jackhammer in a hot ninety degree summer. Um.

1169
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:10,720
Speaker 1: I was playing football on the weekends and and uh,

1170
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:15,200
Speaker 1: flag football, and I broke my finger, still bent and

1171
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:19,439
Speaker 1: uh and to exercise my finger, I couldn't work anymore.

1172
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:22,800
Speaker 1: I couldn't pick up a jackhammer. So I went to

1173
01:15:22,840 --> 01:15:26,599
Speaker 1: exercise my finger by joining the band playing piano. Uh.

1174
01:15:26,680 --> 01:15:28,720
Speaker 1: And that's how I got back into music, just by

1175
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:31,840
Speaker 1: just by that weird circumstance, which is a story of

1176
01:15:31,920 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 1: my life. I mean weird circumstances definitely the story of

1177
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:38,600
Speaker 1: my life, as you see in the book. And I

1178
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:43,320
Speaker 1: got back anyway, So I you know, I I appreciated

1179
01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:47,880
Speaker 1: show business a lot more after working instruction than I

1180
01:15:48,000 --> 01:15:51,320
Speaker 1: did before. Let's put it that way, Okay. In the book,

1181
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:54,160
Speaker 1: you ultimately go to Vegas, you go to Miami, you're

1182
01:15:54,200 --> 01:15:59,240
Speaker 1: working with Oldiezacs, and there's a lot of sex talk

1183
01:15:59,360 --> 01:16:02,759
Speaker 1: at this way, you know, and then you talk about

1184
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:08,519
Speaker 1: going down south below the Mason Dixon line and having girls. Whatever.

1185
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:13,479
Speaker 1: Were these things that the older musicians taught you being

1186
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:16,800
Speaker 1: on the road or how did this develop? Well, it

1187
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:18,240
Speaker 1: was just I wanted to give a little bit of

1188
01:16:18,280 --> 01:16:21,479
Speaker 1: flavor of that of that era, you know, and the

1189
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:27,479
Speaker 1: seventies was just uh wide open. I mean, uh, you

1190
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:31,640
Speaker 1: know this is before aids and uh and and and

1191
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:36,400
Speaker 1: post women's liberation. I mean this was real women's liberation,

1192
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:40,680
Speaker 1: like they would come and ask you for sex liberation,

1193
01:16:41,520 --> 01:16:44,320
Speaker 1: and uh, I want to give people a little bit

1194
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:46,240
Speaker 1: of a flavor of that. I don't think. I don't

1195
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:51,960
Speaker 1: think I overdid anything. I overdid it whatsoever. You are

1196
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:55,320
Speaker 1: realistic and nobody is ever realistic. I want to hear.

1197
01:16:55,400 --> 01:16:57,280
Speaker 1: We have the heavy metal bands where you know it's

1198
01:16:57,320 --> 01:17:02,160
Speaker 1: happening seven, you know, then we have Linda Ronstad's book

1199
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:06,720
Speaker 1: that's so sanitized it's like it's unreadable. Okay, So I

1200
01:17:06,960 --> 01:17:11,280
Speaker 1: was surprised that you were honest about it, and you

1201
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:13,519
Speaker 1: know that was why it's good. I mean, there are

1202
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:19,280
Speaker 1: certain people who are uh you know, Elvis iconic, looking

1203
01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:21,880
Speaker 1: in their stars whatever, and one knows it goes with

1204
01:17:21,960 --> 01:17:26,519
Speaker 1: the territory there. I mean, I know, listen, I know

1205
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 1: these people don't know. You go on the road with

1206
01:17:28,920 --> 01:17:31,960
Speaker 1: these people, there's always somebody much more experienced than you

1207
01:17:32,200 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 1: are who teaches you the ways of the road and

1208
01:17:35,600 --> 01:17:38,640
Speaker 1: what goes on and kind of coaches you along and

1209
01:17:38,720 --> 01:17:41,639
Speaker 1: then you ultimately pass these lessons down to the level.

1210
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:44,040
Speaker 1: But if you're not a member that group, you have

1211
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:51,840
Speaker 1: no idea. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. And you know,

1212
01:17:52,000 --> 01:17:55,320
Speaker 1: so you got some of that on on the oldies circuit. Uh,

1213
01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:58,080
Speaker 1: these are the needs of the guys who admited it, Okay,

1214
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:04,200
Speaker 1: exactly mean it doesn't invent rock and roll. Uh. And

1215
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:06,679
Speaker 1: that was and that was just fun, man, I gotta

1216
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:08,680
Speaker 1: tell you the truth. You know, I was the only

1217
01:18:08,760 --> 01:18:12,639
Speaker 1: one having fun there because they all hated being called oldies.

1218
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:16,240
Speaker 1: They put out the past there in the primary lives. Okay,

1219
01:18:16,520 --> 01:18:20,880
Speaker 1: these guys are you know, late thirties, early forties. If

1220
01:18:20,960 --> 01:18:24,559
Speaker 1: they had four hits when the Beatles hit, they did

1221
01:18:24,600 --> 01:18:27,280
Speaker 1: those four hits the rest of their life, you know.

1222
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:30,479
Speaker 1: And it was just tragic. One of the just odd

1223
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:33,679
Speaker 1: odd phenomena of our of the history of rock and roll.

1224
01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:38,320
Speaker 1: That first generation who invented it got put out the

1225
01:18:38,439 --> 01:18:42,919
Speaker 1: pasture and and and did not have a chance to evolve,

1226
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:47,040
Speaker 1: uh with an audience the way every other generation did,

1227
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:50,920
Speaker 1: starting with the second generation of British invasion. You know,

1228
01:18:51,320 --> 01:18:53,519
Speaker 1: who are the biggest acts and sixty four the Beatles

1229
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:56,400
Speaker 1: and Stones who the biggest acts now the Beatles and Stones,

1230
01:18:56,840 --> 01:19:01,080
Speaker 1: you know, as there should be, because as they evolved,

1231
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:05,840
Speaker 1: the audience evolved with them. Uh some reason that first

1232
01:19:05,920 --> 01:19:08,640
Speaker 1: generation just kind of got left out. And uh, and

1233
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 1: that's why one of the reasons why the minute I

1234
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 1: got in the studio, I started bringing them back, you know,

1235
01:19:13,439 --> 01:19:16,800
Speaker 1: out of just out of gratitude and and and wanted

1236
01:19:16,840 --> 01:19:20,439
Speaker 1: to show people that they're still great. Got Ronny Specter

1237
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:23,080
Speaker 1: and Lee Dorsey out of retirement, Second Duke's album, We

1238
01:19:23,439 --> 01:19:27,200
Speaker 1: United the Coasters, Drifters and five Staturns, you know, um

1239
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:32,040
Speaker 1: uh me and Bruce, Gary West Bonds, put Benny King

1240
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:35,160
Speaker 1: and Chuck Jackson on that record. And uh, and of

1241
01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:37,679
Speaker 1: course I worked with Ronny Specter and just did Darlene

1242
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:41,880
Speaker 1: Love album you know, some years a few years ago. Um.

1243
01:19:42,760 --> 01:19:44,800
Speaker 1: You know, at first of all, it's great to work

1244
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:47,679
Speaker 1: with those people. They're different, There are different species of people.

1245
01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:53,080
Speaker 1: These were talented people, the real talent, you know, not tuning,

1246
01:19:53,160 --> 01:19:58,719
Speaker 1: the vocal talent, not editing or the vocal together talent.

1247
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:01,040
Speaker 1: They had it right, got it right the first time

1248
01:20:01,120 --> 01:20:04,160
Speaker 1: every time. You know, They're a real thing. And so

1249
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:09,080
Speaker 1: they were a joy to produce. But anyway, I was

1250
01:20:09,120 --> 01:20:11,080
Speaker 1: the only one. I'm really having a good time on

1251
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:13,960
Speaker 1: that on the on that meeting, meeting all of those guys,

1252
01:20:14,840 --> 01:20:17,920
Speaker 1: and uh, it's a shame the way that worked out. Okay,

1253
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:19,760
Speaker 1: so you all do we come back to Asbury Park.

1254
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:23,200
Speaker 1: You formed the Jukes. First question, tell me how you

1255
01:20:23,280 --> 01:20:28,320
Speaker 1: played Monopoly during the set? That was? That was a

1256
01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:31,880
Speaker 1: different band. That's Dr Zoom in the Sonic Moom at

1257
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:34,960
Speaker 1: a certain point, like I said, we had a different

1258
01:20:34,960 --> 01:20:37,960
Speaker 1: band every three months before the Jukes. This is quite

1259
01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:41,479
Speaker 1: a bit before the Jukes. Um, this is more and

1260
01:20:41,560 --> 01:20:45,640
Speaker 1: more like the early seventies. Uh. We became the go

1261
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:51,800
Speaker 1: to opening act at our local Hullabalu club, uh Hullablue

1262
01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:56,360
Speaker 1: coming from the PV show. Um. And we didn't really

1263
01:20:56,400 --> 01:20:59,160
Speaker 1: have a band at that time, and we you know,

1264
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:02,600
Speaker 1: we just kind of floundering around. So we decided to

1265
01:21:02,640 --> 01:21:05,280
Speaker 1: put everybody in town in the band so to get

1266
01:21:05,320 --> 01:21:09,400
Speaker 1: a paycheck of some kind. And that include people who

1267
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:15,880
Speaker 1: didn't play instruments, so we hadn't play monopoly. We haven't

1268
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:20,679
Speaker 1: play monopoly. Instead and they got there whatever ten bucks

1269
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:26,439
Speaker 1: or whatever whatever whoever it was. Uh, Okay, how come

1270
01:21:26,479 --> 01:21:29,000
Speaker 1: when the pop gives you a deal for the Jukes,

1271
01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:33,280
Speaker 1: And how come you just don't stay with the Jukes?

1272
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:34,880
Speaker 1: You tell the story of the book, how you tell

1273
01:21:35,040 --> 01:21:37,920
Speaker 1: Johnny he's got to be the front man. Why don't

1274
01:21:37,960 --> 01:21:40,000
Speaker 1: you say this is my thing, let me ride this

1275
01:21:40,200 --> 01:21:43,200
Speaker 1: all the way. Yeah, it's a it's a it's a

1276
01:21:43,240 --> 01:21:48,120
Speaker 1: good question. It's a good question. Um. I don't know.

1277
01:21:48,320 --> 01:21:52,800
Speaker 1: I felt it was limited in some ways. You know.

1278
01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:57,920
Speaker 1: Johnny was great in his own way and had surprised

1279
01:21:57,960 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 1: everybody by being as great as he was. Uh, you know,

1280
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:06,519
Speaker 1: he just really really rose to the occasion, you know.

1281
01:22:07,000 --> 01:22:10,960
Speaker 1: But he wasn't Rod Stewart, you know, let's face it, anyway,

1282
01:22:10,960 --> 01:22:17,639
Speaker 1: he wasn't you know, Stevie Tyler or you know, Roger Daltrey. Uh,

1283
01:22:18,200 --> 01:22:20,479
Speaker 1: you know, he didn't. He wasn't he was. He was

1284
01:22:20,560 --> 01:22:25,040
Speaker 1: like a blues you know, blues guy and great in

1285
01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:31,759
Speaker 1: that particular sub genre. Um. But but that there's built

1286
01:22:31,800 --> 01:22:34,479
Speaker 1: in limitations to that. And I and I wasn't ready

1287
01:22:34,520 --> 01:22:37,280
Speaker 1: to be limited. I wanted to go all the way,

1288
01:22:37,520 --> 01:22:41,200
Speaker 1: you know. And so the horse side bet on was

1289
01:22:41,479 --> 01:22:44,559
Speaker 1: was Bruce Springsteen because I felt he was the one guy,

1290
01:22:45,040 --> 01:22:48,599
Speaker 1: the local, one local guy that could go all the way,

1291
01:22:48,720 --> 01:22:52,320
Speaker 1: and I just, um, I felt that about you know,

1292
01:22:52,400 --> 01:22:55,080
Speaker 1: we were friends a long time and uh, and that

1293
01:22:55,160 --> 01:22:58,160
Speaker 1: was probably the first one to think that about him,

1294
01:22:58,200 --> 01:23:05,759
Speaker 1: because he was extremely shy and uh, and nobody predicted

1295
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:09,360
Speaker 1: him to be a success. But I saw something special

1296
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:13,880
Speaker 1: in him very early that nobody else particularly saw. Um.

1297
01:23:16,120 --> 01:23:20,040
Speaker 1: But by that point of course, it had come kind

1298
01:23:20,080 --> 01:23:23,519
Speaker 1: of a roller coaster ey because he he was the

1299
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:27,680
Speaker 1: first guy signed in our town, but his first two

1300
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:30,160
Speaker 1: records were complete failures. He was about to be the

1301
01:23:30,240 --> 01:23:35,439
Speaker 1: first guy dropped in our town. Uh, you know, so, um,

1302
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:40,960
Speaker 1: it wasn't it wasn't that final a decision. It wasn't

1303
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:44,240
Speaker 1: like I'm leaving the Jukes and joining the East paying

1304
01:23:44,280 --> 01:23:46,320
Speaker 1: for the rest of my life. He only had seven

1305
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:51,040
Speaker 1: gigs books, so I thought, you know, the seven gigs

1306
01:23:51,080 --> 01:23:53,280
Speaker 1: and probably come back to the Jukes and then let's

1307
01:23:53,280 --> 01:23:58,640
Speaker 1: see what we can do. You know. UH may have

1308
01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:01,920
Speaker 1: recorded the first album by then, but that's it's about it.

1309
01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:06,040
Speaker 1: So I would really start to uh become a much

1310
01:24:06,120 --> 01:24:09,639
Speaker 1: better songwriter, and on their second and third albums, Uh,

1311
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:14,559
Speaker 1: so so they're they're future artistically wasn't really clear at

1312
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:18,200
Speaker 1: that point. I just was using them to learn the

1313
01:24:18,280 --> 01:24:21,120
Speaker 1: craft of a record production because I really felt like

1314
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 1: I was a record producer and I wanted to learn

1315
01:24:23,920 --> 01:24:27,240
Speaker 1: how to do it. You know. Okay, another thing you

1316
01:24:27,439 --> 01:24:30,800
Speaker 1: talk about throughout the book is writing songs. How do

1317
01:24:30,960 --> 01:24:35,760
Speaker 1: you write a song? Well? I think what I tell

1318
01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:39,280
Speaker 1: people now, you know, and I do these masterclasses on songwriting,

1319
01:24:39,320 --> 01:24:41,920
Speaker 1: and you know, I try to say, the first of all,

1320
01:24:41,960 --> 01:24:44,240
Speaker 1: there's no rules. Okay, so let's keep that in mind.

1321
01:24:44,840 --> 01:24:49,800
Speaker 1: But I said, you know, the thing you want to

1322
01:24:50,000 --> 01:24:53,439
Speaker 1: try and overcome is is being stuck. You want you

1323
01:24:53,479 --> 01:24:55,280
Speaker 1: want to try and be want to have some momentum,

1324
01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:58,120
Speaker 1: and you want to try and be moving forward whether

1325
01:24:58,280 --> 01:25:00,240
Speaker 1: whatever you're doing, all right, you don't want to be

1326
01:25:00,280 --> 01:25:02,680
Speaker 1: sitting there staring at a blank piece of paper if

1327
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:05,160
Speaker 1: you can help it, you know, waiting for your muse,

1328
01:25:05,560 --> 01:25:09,960
Speaker 1: you know, to to visit. Uh. You know, now this

1329
01:25:10,080 --> 01:25:12,160
Speaker 1: may be just me and my A D D. Which,

1330
01:25:13,120 --> 01:25:15,760
Speaker 1: as I say, I've had long before it was fashionable.

1331
01:25:16,280 --> 01:25:18,840
Speaker 1: So you know, I don't have any patience. So so

1332
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:23,360
Speaker 1: so um I tell people, you know, first of all, right,

1333
01:25:23,439 --> 01:25:27,559
Speaker 1: with purpose. You should also live with purpose, by the way,

1334
01:25:27,880 --> 01:25:31,439
Speaker 1: but but certainly you should write with purpose. What do

1335
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:34,840
Speaker 1: you want the song to do. You know, Uh, you

1336
01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:36,920
Speaker 1: want to make people cry and make them last and

1337
01:25:36,960 --> 01:25:39,719
Speaker 1: make them dance. Uh, you gonna have a hit record.

1338
01:25:40,080 --> 01:25:43,800
Speaker 1: You want to confess your sins, you know, decide what

1339
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:46,640
Speaker 1: what do you want to the stone to do? Uh?

1340
01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:50,720
Speaker 1: You know, um, and then you know you can work

1341
01:25:50,760 --> 01:25:54,320
Speaker 1: out how how literally you want it to be. Uh,

1342
01:25:55,040 --> 01:25:58,680
Speaker 1: but right right down some reference lyrics saying exactly what

1343
01:25:58,840 --> 01:26:01,800
Speaker 1: you want to say. Don't worry about being poetic, don't

1344
01:26:01,800 --> 01:26:06,320
Speaker 1: worry about being cleverly metaphorical at first. Just write it

1345
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:08,960
Speaker 1: straight out, and then you can go back and you

1346
01:26:09,040 --> 01:26:11,439
Speaker 1: can add all those things you want to disguise it.

1347
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:14,280
Speaker 1: You want to, you know, make it more poetic, whatever

1348
01:26:14,320 --> 01:26:17,320
Speaker 1: you want to do, make it more artistically interesting. You

1349
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:20,240
Speaker 1: can do that later. But the idea is to get

1350
01:26:20,320 --> 01:26:24,120
Speaker 1: some momentum going come up with a purpose right out.

1351
01:26:24,160 --> 01:26:27,080
Speaker 1: What that purpose is is clearly as as as you

1352
01:26:27,160 --> 01:26:29,920
Speaker 1: can you know. UM. And the other thing I use

1353
01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:33,439
Speaker 1: also and I teach it and I and I use

1354
01:26:33,520 --> 01:26:35,880
Speaker 1: it myself and I used it very much on my

1355
01:26:36,040 --> 01:26:39,679
Speaker 1: latest album, Summer Sorcery. Uh is you're stuck. You're writing

1356
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:43,479
Speaker 1: a song for yourself right one for somebody else. Um,

1357
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:46,880
Speaker 1: it's A. It's a it's the best way to to

1358
01:26:47,320 --> 01:26:50,320
Speaker 1: break that break up that you know, that log jam,

1359
01:26:50,520 --> 01:26:56,439
Speaker 1: you know, uh, because it's always more difficult to see yourself. Um,

1360
01:26:57,360 --> 01:26:59,400
Speaker 1: you know, you want to write a write a beach

1361
01:26:59,439 --> 01:27:02,000
Speaker 1: boy song, you know, write a song you can you

1362
01:27:02,040 --> 01:27:03,720
Speaker 1: can see the beach boys doing it. Write a wrong

1363
01:27:03,800 --> 01:27:06,479
Speaker 1: Stone song, or you know, whenever your favorite artist is

1364
01:27:07,160 --> 01:27:08,960
Speaker 1: write and write a door song. You know. You know

1365
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:14,200
Speaker 1: now when you do that, um, you're not really gonna

1366
01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:18,240
Speaker 1: be impersonating them most likely. Uh so it's gonna come

1367
01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:22,880
Speaker 1: out you. It's gonna end up being you. But it's

1368
01:27:22,920 --> 01:27:26,080
Speaker 1: just so it's just a way of getting some momentum going,

1369
01:27:26,479 --> 01:27:28,559
Speaker 1: because that's the hardest thing when it comes to writing.

1370
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:30,800
Speaker 1: And once in a while you get a great melloy

1371
01:27:30,840 --> 01:27:33,800
Speaker 1: you'll come into your head, or a phrase. You'll catch

1372
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:37,000
Speaker 1: a phrase in a book or somebody's saying something. You know,

1373
01:27:37,040 --> 01:27:39,720
Speaker 1: and I and I and I keep notes. I mean,

1374
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:42,240
Speaker 1: the reason why Summer Sorcery was was such a miracle

1375
01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:46,840
Speaker 1: was my radar had been down for thirty years. So

1376
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:50,280
Speaker 1: before that, in the eighties, when you're in that cycle,

1377
01:27:51,400 --> 01:27:53,840
Speaker 1: you know, record tour, record to our record to a

1378
01:27:53,920 --> 01:27:57,720
Speaker 1: record tour Um, you're always your radar is always up.

1379
01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:00,880
Speaker 1: You're always making little notes, you know, a little melodies things.

1380
01:28:01,040 --> 01:28:04,080
Speaker 1: You know, you record the little bits of melody that

1381
01:28:04,200 --> 01:28:06,920
Speaker 1: come to you, or a chord change. You know, you

1382
01:28:07,080 --> 01:28:12,800
Speaker 1: record it. Words you know you'll jot down, you know somewhere. Uh, phrases,

1383
01:28:13,200 --> 01:28:15,880
Speaker 1: you always looking for. Titles are always important. The most

1384
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:18,719
Speaker 1: important things to title, you know. The second most important

1385
01:28:18,720 --> 01:28:21,120
Speaker 1: thing is a chorus. Very most important thing is the

1386
01:28:21,400 --> 01:28:24,280
Speaker 1: opening line. You know. So you're always looking for those.

1387
01:28:24,439 --> 01:28:29,120
Speaker 1: The rest right itself. Um, and you're you know, uh,

1388
01:28:29,439 --> 01:28:31,760
Speaker 1: and you're always compiling all these notes, and then when

1389
01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:33,519
Speaker 1: you go to make a record, you have all this

1390
01:28:33,600 --> 01:28:36,040
Speaker 1: stuff you can then you can, you know, put it

1391
01:28:36,120 --> 01:28:39,439
Speaker 1: all together. I got to make summar sorcery. I have

1392
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:42,640
Speaker 1: none of that. There's no notes, you know, there's no

1393
01:28:43,400 --> 01:28:47,280
Speaker 1: not one bit of melody recorded anywhere, or not one

1394
01:28:47,360 --> 01:28:50,680
Speaker 1: single phrase. You know. That's why it was such a

1395
01:28:50,800 --> 01:28:56,280
Speaker 1: remarkable miracle that records happened. But but I did, But

1396
01:28:56,360 --> 01:28:58,680
Speaker 1: I did. Right there, I sat down said, okay, so

1397
01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:02,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make a new record. Um, first of all,

1398
01:29:03,040 --> 01:29:04,320
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a new idea. I don't I

1399
01:29:04,320 --> 01:29:06,600
Speaker 1: don't want it to be order biographical, because all my

1400
01:29:06,680 --> 01:29:09,000
Speaker 1: records are autobiographical. And I don't want it to be

1401
01:29:09,080 --> 01:29:12,679
Speaker 1: political alright, because there's no reason to be political during

1402
01:29:12,720 --> 01:29:18,120
Speaker 1: the Trump years. It's completely redundant. So so I said,

1403
01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:20,960
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna write ten or twilve little fictional movies,

1404
01:29:21,439 --> 01:29:24,360
Speaker 1: be a different guy in each, and have some fun

1405
01:29:25,040 --> 01:29:27,360
Speaker 1: and I and I said, you know, so, who who

1406
01:29:27,439 --> 01:29:29,800
Speaker 1: do I want to represented on this record? And I

1407
01:29:29,880 --> 01:29:31,320
Speaker 1: wrote down a list. I wanted to fly in the

1408
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:34,360
Speaker 1: family stone because that's how I'm picturing my new disciples,

1409
01:29:34,400 --> 01:29:37,960
Speaker 1: the soul in that, in that sort of uh you

1410
01:29:38,080 --> 01:29:41,880
Speaker 1: know frame. I want some Sam Cooke, I want some

1411
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:46,960
Speaker 1: Tito Quente, you know, I want from James Brown, and uh,

1412
01:29:47,040 --> 01:29:50,080
Speaker 1: you know, I'm may a list and there and and

1413
01:29:50,200 --> 01:29:54,519
Speaker 1: then and then I wrote the songs, and uh and none.

1414
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:58,880
Speaker 1: None of those songs sound like those people exactly. They

1415
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:01,800
Speaker 1: sound like me. And that's how it works, man. You know,

1416
01:30:02,320 --> 01:30:06,760
Speaker 1: how about collaboration, believe it or not believing it? Well,

1417
01:30:06,960 --> 01:30:10,160
Speaker 1: I you know, I love the idea of it, um,

1418
01:30:10,960 --> 01:30:13,679
Speaker 1: but I never figured out how to do it. I could.

1419
01:30:14,120 --> 01:30:19,200
Speaker 1: All my collaborations, uh, you know, usually somebody's riff, you know,

1420
01:30:19,280 --> 01:30:22,160
Speaker 1: Bruce Bruce. Bruce came up with a riff on a

1421
01:30:22,280 --> 01:30:25,760
Speaker 1: love on the wrong side of town, you know John

1422
01:30:26,000 --> 01:30:30,360
Speaker 1: John John Johnnah Johannah and I wrote the rest. You

1423
01:30:30,439 --> 01:30:32,400
Speaker 1: know what I mean, like, give me, give me a

1424
01:30:32,479 --> 01:30:35,280
Speaker 1: piece of a song and then I'll finish it. You know.

1425
01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:40,200
Speaker 1: But two guys in the same room writing, I don't

1426
01:30:40,320 --> 01:30:42,519
Speaker 1: I don't know how to do that, and I and

1427
01:30:42,640 --> 01:30:44,519
Speaker 1: I envy it, you know, I'd like to do that.

1428
01:30:44,680 --> 01:30:47,720
Speaker 1: I'd like to be in that, you know, winning in

1429
01:30:47,840 --> 01:30:51,920
Speaker 1: McCartney mode when they started, you know, Mick and Keith

1430
01:30:52,400 --> 01:30:56,400
Speaker 1: when they started UM or any of the any of

1431
01:30:56,479 --> 01:31:00,160
Speaker 1: the great songwriting teams, you know, Lieber and Stoller, you

1432
01:31:00,240 --> 01:31:04,719
Speaker 1: know Barry Greenwich, you know a lot of great ones. Okay,

1433
01:31:04,760 --> 01:31:07,640
Speaker 1: let's do so. Ultimately, Gary Gersh tracks you down. You

1434
01:31:07,760 --> 01:31:13,240
Speaker 1: make these records for E M I America. Commercially, they

1435
01:31:13,320 --> 01:31:16,960
Speaker 1: are not successful. You talk in the book about the

1436
01:31:17,120 --> 01:31:20,920
Speaker 1: label not taking advantage of television appearance in Europe, based

1437
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:26,280
Speaker 1: in Germany, etcetera. What was your internal experience, Hey, did

1438
01:31:26,360 --> 01:31:29,519
Speaker 1: you feel an obligation to try to have hits for

1439
01:31:29,680 --> 01:31:31,800
Speaker 1: them or you thought you were doing the right thing

1440
01:31:31,840 --> 01:31:34,200
Speaker 1: and the label wasn't coming through for you. What was

1441
01:31:34,320 --> 01:31:43,040
Speaker 1: your experience there? Yeah, I really, uh, I like those

1442
01:31:43,120 --> 01:31:46,400
Speaker 1: records and I went back and really really re examined

1443
01:31:46,439 --> 01:31:52,240
Speaker 1: them writing this book. Um, I really believe it was

1444
01:31:52,360 --> 01:31:56,480
Speaker 1: a case of having no manager to to be that advocate.

1445
01:31:57,560 --> 01:32:03,240
Speaker 1: And my records were not actually the most commercial and

1446
01:32:03,320 --> 01:32:07,040
Speaker 1: the most uh the songs that really fit in necessarily,

1447
01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:11,120
Speaker 1: so it would have been difficult no matter who it was. Um,

1448
01:32:11,479 --> 01:32:13,280
Speaker 1: they were just the way I heard them. You know,

1449
01:32:13,360 --> 01:32:18,800
Speaker 1: my records are completely uncompromising. Um. And I don't know

1450
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:21,000
Speaker 1: where that comes from. I don't know why. I mean,

1451
01:32:21,040 --> 01:32:23,840
Speaker 1: I grew up with pop music, you know, and I

1452
01:32:23,920 --> 01:32:27,280
Speaker 1: love pop music and I love sixties pop music. Um,

1453
01:32:28,840 --> 01:32:32,599
Speaker 1: but I just I was off on some artistic trip

1454
01:32:33,320 --> 01:32:36,840
Speaker 1: that I I just couldn't resist because it felt like

1455
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:40,240
Speaker 1: I was justifying my existence. You know. It wasn't enough

1456
01:32:40,280 --> 01:32:42,880
Speaker 1: to have pop hits in my mind, even if I

1457
01:32:42,920 --> 01:32:45,840
Speaker 1: could have done that. Um, they needed to be hits

1458
01:32:45,880 --> 01:32:48,920
Speaker 1: with substance. I just I had that need to to

1459
01:32:49,200 --> 01:32:52,559
Speaker 1: to communicate substance. I don't know why, but I did,

1460
01:32:53,200 --> 01:32:56,640
Speaker 1: and and and and the songs. You know, we're not uncommercial.

1461
01:32:57,280 --> 01:32:59,880
Speaker 1: You know, when you'll go back and look at you know,

1462
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:02,920
Speaker 1: out of the darkness or or bitter fruit or or

1463
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:08,559
Speaker 1: or you know, uh whatever, they were not they were

1464
01:33:08,600 --> 01:33:12,400
Speaker 1: not you know, they're not jazz. You know they're they're

1465
01:33:12,560 --> 01:33:15,920
Speaker 1: not They're not you know, something difficult to comprehend. Um.

1466
01:33:16,920 --> 01:33:18,880
Speaker 1: And so you know, I think it would have needed

1467
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:23,639
Speaker 1: some an advocate to to to really to really help

1468
01:33:23,720 --> 01:33:26,960
Speaker 1: promote promote the stuff at the time. I think with

1469
01:33:27,080 --> 01:33:29,639
Speaker 1: the manager, I think I would have stayed in Europe

1470
01:33:29,680 --> 01:33:33,479
Speaker 1: at that moment and broken through. We played the sixteen

1471
01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:37,280
Speaker 1: countries and and blew to boot, blew the house down,

1472
01:33:38,640 --> 01:33:41,960
Speaker 1: and and and you know, like I said, a group

1473
01:33:42,040 --> 01:33:44,280
Speaker 1: that was not nearly as good state and broke to

1474
01:33:44,439 --> 01:33:48,400
Speaker 1: in Europe. That might have been my breakthrough moment. Who knows,

1475
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:52,519
Speaker 1: I don't know, Um, I don't know. I I think

1476
01:33:52,720 --> 01:33:55,200
Speaker 1: lack of management was a big factor. I think my

1477
01:33:55,320 --> 01:34:01,120
Speaker 1: own lack of lack of of making it a priority

1478
01:34:01,280 --> 01:34:05,679
Speaker 1: was probably a factor. I I did not see having

1479
01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:09,320
Speaker 1: having a hit single at that point being a priority

1480
01:34:09,400 --> 01:34:11,559
Speaker 1: to me, and I should have. I should have. Man,

1481
01:34:11,640 --> 01:34:14,000
Speaker 1: I made sure bru spraising and a hit record. I'll

1482
01:34:14,040 --> 01:34:16,720
Speaker 1: tell you that because we needed it. We needed on

1483
01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:19,439
Speaker 1: that that fifth album that you know that was the

1484
01:34:19,560 --> 01:34:25,240
Speaker 1: last chance. Man. We needed it, and just to stop

1485
01:34:25,280 --> 01:34:28,880
Speaker 1: at that point for a second, it was fascinating to

1486
01:34:29,040 --> 01:34:31,840
Speaker 1: get your viewpoint on that. I know there's a big

1487
01:34:32,040 --> 01:34:36,240
Speaker 1: economic component on the other side of the stage, but

1488
01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:42,120
Speaker 1: from the audience, if you had been there before, everybody

1489
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:47,280
Speaker 1: came aboard on board to run. Certain people came aboard

1490
01:34:47,439 --> 01:34:51,720
Speaker 1: on board run Darkness was a return. It was a

1491
01:34:51,880 --> 01:34:55,120
Speaker 1: gift to the people who had always been there. And

1492
01:34:55,200 --> 01:34:57,960
Speaker 1: in addition, amongst fans in Los Angeles, you played the Rock,

1493
01:34:58,080 --> 01:35:00,720
Speaker 1: they played the Roxy. There were boo legs, I own

1494
01:35:00,800 --> 01:35:04,320
Speaker 1: the bootleg, et cetera. So the fact that you felt

1495
01:35:04,400 --> 01:35:07,360
Speaker 1: on the inside that you needed Hungry Heart and you

1496
01:35:07,439 --> 01:35:11,080
Speaker 1: needed to put it over the top. My feeling the

1497
01:35:11,280 --> 01:35:14,960
Speaker 1: vibe in l A was Bruce and the Eastree being

1498
01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:19,600
Speaker 1: were part of the firmament, well being a part of

1499
01:35:19,640 --> 01:35:25,400
Speaker 1: the firmament, part of the FIRMAMENTI of the Roxy. That

1500
01:35:25,560 --> 01:35:28,800
Speaker 1: wasn't underplay. I mean that was a radio show or

1501
01:35:28,920 --> 01:35:33,559
Speaker 1: even the palladium. What was the intermediate? Uh, I'm pretty

1502
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:36,040
Speaker 1: sure on the Darkness tour Bruce played the Forum. Now

1503
01:35:36,120 --> 01:35:39,479
Speaker 1: granted that's l A. Well maybe and maybe, but it

1504
01:35:39,640 --> 01:35:44,400
Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't full. If we did, it wasn't full. Okay.

1505
01:35:44,880 --> 01:35:48,240
Speaker 1: So and yes, and that was l a you know,

1506
01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:52,840
Speaker 1: you go to Kansas, you know. Uh, we were struggling,

1507
01:35:53,080 --> 01:35:56,320
Speaker 1: believing me, believe me, we were struggling. We were in

1508
01:35:56,760 --> 01:36:01,760
Speaker 1: some ways less popular. I mean, to run made a

1509
01:36:01,800 --> 01:36:04,960
Speaker 1: lot of noise that that particular song. People think it

1510
01:36:05,040 --> 01:36:06,640
Speaker 1: was a hit. It wasn't really a hit, but but

1511
01:36:07,080 --> 01:36:11,920
Speaker 1: certainly yeah, and it got more airplay than anything on

1512
01:36:12,080 --> 01:36:16,400
Speaker 1: Darkness Darkness absolutely, you know. So we were kind of,

1513
01:36:16,720 --> 01:36:18,519
Speaker 1: you know, in some ways on a on a on

1514
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:23,360
Speaker 1: a down slide, kind of um saved by Frank Barcelona,

1515
01:36:24,520 --> 01:36:29,519
Speaker 1: who kept us going regardless, and it just felt like

1516
01:36:29,760 --> 01:36:32,559
Speaker 1: we need we need to get over his hump here,

1517
01:36:32,720 --> 01:36:34,960
Speaker 1: you know. So I think that single came wrong with

1518
01:36:35,160 --> 01:36:37,880
Speaker 1: throw at the right time. Okay, let's jump forward for you.

1519
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:44,280
Speaker 1: When did you realize the Sopranos was the Sopranos um

1520
01:36:44,720 --> 01:36:52,120
Speaker 1: About three weeks after it was on Um. Uh, suddenly

1521
01:36:52,240 --> 01:36:56,880
Speaker 1: everybody is stopping me on the street. Uh, and then

1522
01:36:57,120 --> 01:37:01,479
Speaker 1: they don't want to discuss rock and roll anymore. And

1523
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:03,880
Speaker 1: I had been a you know, a so called rock

1524
01:37:04,000 --> 01:37:07,800
Speaker 1: star at that point twenty five years. Just to show

1525
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:13,280
Speaker 1: the power of TV three weeks. Forget those twenty five

1526
01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:16,519
Speaker 1: years and they're they're gone. I'm telling you know, and

1527
01:37:16,720 --> 01:37:19,200
Speaker 1: and I and I did not. I was not not

1528
01:37:19,360 --> 01:37:23,559
Speaker 1: easily recognized. You know, I looked pretty different in the show.

1529
01:37:23,760 --> 01:37:26,160
Speaker 1: You know, I think you fish you may see it

1530
01:37:26,280 --> 01:37:28,800
Speaker 1: that way? People knew you were in the show. Yeah,

1531
01:37:29,040 --> 01:37:31,400
Speaker 1: you think, Oh, I know, there was you know, that

1532
01:37:31,560 --> 01:37:35,320
Speaker 1: was one of the big stories. Not everybody walking down

1533
01:37:35,400 --> 01:37:37,000
Speaker 1: the street in New York City is gonna know you're

1534
01:37:37,000 --> 01:37:38,759
Speaker 1: in these three be gonna know who you are anyway,

1535
01:37:39,320 --> 01:37:41,599
Speaker 1: But if you were a music fan and you were

1536
01:37:41,640 --> 01:37:45,479
Speaker 1: watching that show, you knew it was you. Alright, alright,

1537
01:37:45,520 --> 01:37:48,200
Speaker 1: But to my mind, I looked pretty damn different. But

1538
01:37:48,520 --> 01:37:51,960
Speaker 1: but anyway, it didn't matter because everybody is stopping me.

1539
01:37:52,520 --> 01:37:57,759
Speaker 1: And I said, man, this show, We're onto something because

1540
01:37:57,800 --> 01:38:01,000
Speaker 1: it was it. This wasn't that obvious League commercial. Okay,

1541
01:38:01,040 --> 01:38:06,920
Speaker 1: I mean the pilot, uh was was downright weird? You know.

1542
01:38:07,040 --> 01:38:10,760
Speaker 1: Extent is the pilot the first episode, Yes, yes, I

1543
01:38:10,840 --> 01:38:14,920
Speaker 1: mean a mob boss has ducks flying to with pool,

1544
01:38:15,360 --> 01:38:18,720
Speaker 1: they fly away, he has a nervous breakdown. That the

1545
01:38:18,800 --> 01:38:21,840
Speaker 1: makings of a hit show, you know, And then and

1546
01:38:22,000 --> 01:38:25,400
Speaker 1: and David Chase, no compromise, this is gonna be his

1547
01:38:25,520 --> 01:38:29,160
Speaker 1: last show. He didn't care, all right, he'd been he'd

1548
01:38:29,160 --> 01:38:33,240
Speaker 1: been a good TV soldier his whole life since Rockford's Files,

1549
01:38:33,720 --> 01:38:37,479
Speaker 1: you know, like what early seventies or something. Um, and

1550
01:38:37,640 --> 01:38:41,080
Speaker 1: and and he's ready to go onto movies and he's

1551
01:38:41,120 --> 01:38:42,720
Speaker 1: just gonna break every rule in the book. He just

1552
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:47,920
Speaker 1: doesn't care anymore. So so so um, he has no

1553
01:38:48,439 --> 01:38:51,240
Speaker 1: The Lightning is like practically should have a very tay

1554
01:38:51,600 --> 01:38:55,040
Speaker 1: you know, it's practically a documentary. And the camera doesn't

1555
01:38:55,080 --> 01:39:00,680
Speaker 1: move at all, no seductive camera moves. Uh. Uh. I

1556
01:39:00,760 --> 01:39:04,200
Speaker 1: had to talk him in adding like four songs to

1557
01:39:04,320 --> 01:39:06,880
Speaker 1: the pilot because there was there was no music. It

1558
01:39:07,080 --> 01:39:11,040
Speaker 1: was just like it was the most uncompromising and too

1559
01:39:11,080 --> 01:39:14,840
Speaker 1: many characters, you know, no stars. A couple of people

1560
01:39:14,920 --> 01:39:16,639
Speaker 1: might have known me, and a couple of people knew

1561
01:39:16,960 --> 01:39:20,680
Speaker 1: well then new Lorraine from good Fellas, But here she

1562
01:39:20,840 --> 01:39:24,639
Speaker 1: is doing the opposite roles from good Fellas, you know. Uh.

1563
01:39:25,479 --> 01:39:28,120
Speaker 1: And that's it. So, I mean, every rule was it

1564
01:39:28,240 --> 01:39:32,840
Speaker 1: was being broken. Uh. And I thought, you know, I

1565
01:39:32,880 --> 01:39:35,760
Speaker 1: thought it was gonna take at least one season for

1566
01:39:35,880 --> 01:39:38,120
Speaker 1: people to kind of get used to the idea of it,

1567
01:39:38,160 --> 01:39:42,720
Speaker 1: because it was pretty bizarre, you know, no two or

1568
01:39:42,720 --> 01:39:46,320
Speaker 1: three weeks boom, I mean it was, it was on

1569
01:39:47,479 --> 01:39:51,080
Speaker 1: and uh it just kept building from there. How did

1570
01:39:51,160 --> 01:39:56,599
Speaker 1: the Alabama three songs get chosen? They David chose all

1571
01:39:56,760 --> 01:40:00,240
Speaker 1: all the music. Uh, I don't watch so much. Sure

1572
01:40:00,280 --> 01:40:04,800
Speaker 1: who who turned him onto that? I never asked him? Uh,

1573
01:40:05,680 --> 01:40:07,800
Speaker 1: but he but he you know, he had a guy

1574
01:40:08,160 --> 01:40:11,240
Speaker 1: that did some music supervision for him. But but mostly

1575
01:40:11,320 --> 01:40:13,880
Speaker 1: he liked That's the thing he liked doing most. He

1576
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:19,160
Speaker 1: liked doing the music more than anything. Okay, the landscape

1577
01:40:19,240 --> 01:40:23,599
Speaker 1: is littered with hit shows to get worse every season. Okay,

1578
01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:27,800
Speaker 1: so you're doing the show now, there was a delight

1579
01:40:27,840 --> 01:40:29,680
Speaker 1: he first you wanted to yearly schedule and then they

1580
01:40:29,840 --> 01:40:32,599
Speaker 1: you know, for script real, I'm on the outside script resil.

1581
01:40:33,400 --> 01:40:36,799
Speaker 1: To what degree was their pressure and to what degree

1582
01:40:36,840 --> 01:40:39,439
Speaker 1: did you feel the attention? Now as the show started

1583
01:40:39,479 --> 01:40:46,719
Speaker 1: to play out, well, okay, the pressure was on David

1584
01:40:46,800 --> 01:40:53,880
Speaker 1: Chase and uh after the first season, Uh, he was

1585
01:40:54,240 --> 01:40:59,120
Speaker 1: a little bit stuck because in his mind it was

1586
01:40:59,240 --> 01:41:03,680
Speaker 1: just the third teen part movie and and and the

1587
01:41:03,800 --> 01:41:10,400
Speaker 1: movie in his head was you know, mother was to

1588
01:41:10,520 --> 01:41:19,680
Speaker 1: kill kill her own son. And uh, you know, and

1589
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:23,519
Speaker 1: so he was kind of he wasn't really sure what

1590
01:41:23,680 --> 01:41:28,200
Speaker 1: to do after the first season. Uh, but we did.

1591
01:41:28,439 --> 01:41:31,360
Speaker 1: We did a second season, right according according to the schedule,

1592
01:41:31,680 --> 01:41:35,720
Speaker 1: I think, you know. And then we were at the

1593
01:41:36,680 --> 01:41:41,400
Speaker 1: Rath party for the second season and at that point,

1594
01:41:41,479 --> 01:41:44,680
Speaker 1: you know, we're doing really really well and uh and

1595
01:41:45,000 --> 01:41:48,760
Speaker 1: and and everybody's kind of celebrating, and David Jason's looked

1596
01:41:48,880 --> 01:41:54,679
Speaker 1: completely wasted, you know, just really drained. And I said, damn,

1597
01:41:54,720 --> 01:41:56,000
Speaker 1: you know, you know, come on, you gotta have some

1598
01:41:56,080 --> 01:42:00,160
Speaker 1: fun here, man. And he's like, I got, I got

1599
01:42:00,240 --> 01:42:02,080
Speaker 1: like whatever it is, three or four more months of

1600
01:42:02,160 --> 01:42:06,080
Speaker 1: post production and then it's like maybe a month off

1601
01:42:06,320 --> 01:42:09,479
Speaker 1: and then I gotta started writing a third season, he says.

1602
01:42:09,479 --> 01:42:13,519
Speaker 1: And I'm just I'm exhausted. And I said, you know,

1603
01:42:13,760 --> 01:42:17,800
Speaker 1: I'm thinking myself, h is HBO. You know, I mean,

1604
01:42:18,840 --> 01:42:22,599
Speaker 1: before we got there, there's a football show and seven right,

1605
01:42:23,000 --> 01:42:26,519
Speaker 1: you know, you know, And I said, Dave, you know

1606
01:42:27,400 --> 01:42:31,080
Speaker 1: who says you gotta follow that schedule, and you know,

1607
01:42:31,240 --> 01:42:33,439
Speaker 1: and he had been such a good soldier his whole life,

1608
01:42:33,520 --> 01:42:36,120
Speaker 1: you know, he said, well, that's the way we've always

1609
01:42:36,160 --> 01:42:40,840
Speaker 1: done it. I'm like, yeah, So what it's HBO, you know, new,

1610
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:44,960
Speaker 1: a new idea. We are so hot right now. What

1611
01:42:45,040 --> 01:42:47,519
Speaker 1: are you gonna do? Fire you? If you say I

1612
01:42:47,640 --> 01:42:50,519
Speaker 1: want three months off, I want six months or whatever.

1613
01:42:52,400 --> 01:42:55,280
Speaker 1: When we come back six months later, will the show

1614
01:42:55,360 --> 01:42:57,559
Speaker 1: have been forgotten and and and go down to drain?

1615
01:42:57,680 --> 01:43:00,400
Speaker 1: I don't think so, you know, Well they fire you.

1616
01:43:00,640 --> 01:43:04,280
Speaker 1: I don't think so, you know, I said, fuck then,

1617
01:43:05,120 --> 01:43:09,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's more important to us and to them

1618
01:43:09,840 --> 01:43:13,880
Speaker 1: that you are in good shape mentally. You know that

1619
01:43:14,000 --> 01:43:17,840
Speaker 1: you are not exhausted. You you need you need to read,

1620
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:21,240
Speaker 1: you know, refuel here man, take take whatever time you

1621
01:43:21,479 --> 01:43:25,640
Speaker 1: fucking need, you know. And uh and he did and

1622
01:43:25,760 --> 01:43:30,040
Speaker 1: he did, and that changed the entire It changed cable

1623
01:43:30,120 --> 01:43:34,000
Speaker 1: TV forever because everybody started doing it later, you know,

1624
01:43:34,400 --> 01:43:38,840
Speaker 1: taking you know, extra time here, you know, coming back

1625
01:43:38,920 --> 01:43:42,320
Speaker 1: fourteen months later than sixteen months later. But you know,

1626
01:43:42,560 --> 01:43:44,439
Speaker 1: but it was important at that time that I thought,

1627
01:43:44,760 --> 01:43:48,280
Speaker 1: you know, this guy is gonna just kill himself here

1628
01:43:48,360 --> 01:43:50,360
Speaker 1: and what good is he gonna be for anybody? And

1629
01:43:50,520 --> 01:43:53,160
Speaker 1: burned out like that. What are a couple of your

1630
01:43:53,200 --> 01:43:58,160
Speaker 1: favorite episodes? Well, you know, I never watched the whole

1631
01:43:58,200 --> 01:44:00,360
Speaker 1: thing from the beginning, but but I watched some of

1632
01:44:00,439 --> 01:44:03,960
Speaker 1: the first season. Uh, they were doing a marathon and

1633
01:44:04,479 --> 01:44:07,479
Speaker 1: I and I had seen the you know, the new one,

1634
01:44:08,040 --> 01:44:10,240
Speaker 1: the new Many Saints, you know, so I kind of

1635
01:44:10,280 --> 01:44:13,080
Speaker 1: put me in that soprano's moods I watched. I watched

1636
01:44:13,880 --> 01:44:17,120
Speaker 1: the first season and and uh, it's amazing how well

1637
01:44:17,160 --> 01:44:20,400
Speaker 1: it holds up. Honestly, it's a it's a it's a

1638
01:44:20,479 --> 01:44:25,759
Speaker 1: pretty unique show. Um. I mean, thinking back, my favorite

1639
01:44:25,800 --> 01:44:31,320
Speaker 1: scenes were two things. You know what we're working with Jimmy. Um,

1640
01:44:32,240 --> 01:44:35,519
Speaker 1: you know, I just love working with him. Uh. I

1641
01:44:35,560 --> 01:44:37,400
Speaker 1: remember seeing that you know where I come in. I

1642
01:44:37,479 --> 01:44:40,679
Speaker 1: gotta I gotta give him bad news and it pisces

1643
01:44:40,800 --> 01:44:43,960
Speaker 1: them off. And you know, I like that scene a lot.

1644
01:44:44,600 --> 01:44:47,800
Speaker 1: And then uh, very rare scene with my wife because uh,

1645
01:44:48,320 --> 01:44:50,320
Speaker 1: mostly of the guys with the guy, the girls with

1646
01:44:50,439 --> 01:44:52,960
Speaker 1: the girls. And uh we had one scene when when

1647
01:44:53,040 --> 01:44:56,120
Speaker 1: the tony sopranos in the hospital and Sylvia has to

1648
01:44:56,160 --> 01:44:59,760
Speaker 1: take over and uh, and he's getting dressed and then

1649
01:44:59,840 --> 01:45:02,519
Speaker 1: she is there, you know a little bit of the

1650
01:45:02,800 --> 01:45:07,160
Speaker 1: Macbeth thank but it was it was that was that

1651
01:45:07,360 --> 01:45:10,719
Speaker 1: was are the two scenes to stand out in my mind. Okay,

1652
01:45:10,840 --> 01:45:13,800
Speaker 1: you talk about your political awakening, being in Europe being

1653
01:45:13,800 --> 01:45:16,320
Speaker 1: asked questions about America, and there are a lot of

1654
01:45:16,400 --> 01:45:22,040
Speaker 1: vivid scenes about that, democracies in crisis. What do you

1655
01:45:22,200 --> 01:45:25,400
Speaker 1: think of the political world today and what you or

1656
01:45:25,439 --> 01:45:28,200
Speaker 1: anybody in the music business or music and anything can

1657
01:45:28,240 --> 01:45:33,680
Speaker 1: do about it? Well, that's uh, that's a good question. Um.

1658
01:45:35,000 --> 01:45:36,880
Speaker 1: I think we're in big trouble. I think we're in

1659
01:45:36,920 --> 01:45:41,360
Speaker 1: the biggest trouble, uh, possibly of our history, certainly since

1660
01:45:41,520 --> 01:45:44,920
Speaker 1: uh eighteen sixty. I think we are very much on

1661
01:45:45,000 --> 01:45:47,200
Speaker 1: the verge of a second civil war. On he my

1662
01:45:47,280 --> 01:45:51,760
Speaker 1: dog waking up. We are in a huge trouble right now.

1663
01:45:53,439 --> 01:45:56,360
Speaker 1: And I keep asking where are the tough good guys.

1664
01:45:57,439 --> 01:46:01,600
Speaker 1: That's uh, because we're in a war and uh and

1665
01:46:01,720 --> 01:46:04,800
Speaker 1: only one size fighting it. And I felt this way

1666
01:46:04,920 --> 01:46:07,840
Speaker 1: for a long long time. And arguably this board goes

1667
01:46:07,880 --> 01:46:12,519
Speaker 1: back to our founding. Um, you don't like it or

1668
01:46:12,560 --> 01:46:16,200
Speaker 1: not admit it or not, we were founded as a

1669
01:46:16,280 --> 01:46:24,840
Speaker 1: male dominant, white supremacist, um Christian nationalist oligarchy. That's how

1670
01:46:24,920 --> 01:46:28,639
Speaker 1: we re formed, as what most of our constitution said,

1671
01:46:30,280 --> 01:46:37,519
Speaker 1: and um, luckily we had a few more enlightened founders

1672
01:46:37,600 --> 01:46:42,599
Speaker 1: who snuck in there. The liberty injustice for all bits

1673
01:46:42,680 --> 01:46:45,040
Speaker 1: and pieces that we've been trying to live up to

1674
01:46:45,160 --> 01:46:51,120
Speaker 1: ever since. But at this point Republican Party has completely

1675
01:46:51,200 --> 01:46:57,559
Speaker 1: returned to that same position. Um, and even even more

1676
01:46:57,800 --> 01:47:02,479
Speaker 1: anti American and un American than that. You know, they

1677
01:47:02,800 --> 01:47:08,560
Speaker 1: just have lost all interest in democracy, in uh, in equality,

1678
01:47:09,360 --> 01:47:14,320
Speaker 1: uh and even in science. So it's uh, we become

1679
01:47:14,800 --> 01:47:22,040
Speaker 1: we've become this this dangerous uh, dangerously close to civil war.

1680
01:47:22,120 --> 01:47:25,000
Speaker 1: And I see it's not just us, it's it's the

1681
01:47:25,520 --> 01:47:27,800
Speaker 1: problem is all around the world. I just did two

1682
01:47:27,880 --> 01:47:30,280
Speaker 1: tours around the world and gets a mess all over

1683
01:47:30,320 --> 01:47:35,280
Speaker 1: the place. You've got a problems from Australia to Indonesia

1684
01:47:35,400 --> 01:47:40,040
Speaker 1: to Hungary. You know, either it's either it's fascism or

1685
01:47:40,160 --> 01:47:45,720
Speaker 1: it's religious extremism, and uh we got both going on here.

1686
01:47:46,520 --> 01:47:50,439
Speaker 1: So so so you know, um, I'm hoping the Democrats

1687
01:47:50,520 --> 01:47:53,840
Speaker 1: wake up. Uh if they're the only game in town,

1688
01:47:53,920 --> 01:47:58,280
Speaker 1: it's left. But what they're doing to this show Biden,

1689
01:47:58,320 --> 01:48:00,760
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you got love the guy and

1690
01:48:00,840 --> 01:48:03,679
Speaker 1: I root for him every day, but he's not getting

1691
01:48:04,000 --> 01:48:06,360
Speaker 1: you know, it's been one unforced era after the other.

1692
01:48:07,320 --> 01:48:11,439
Speaker 1: I mean, just the concept of bi partisanship. It's just uh,

1693
01:48:13,439 --> 01:48:17,920
Speaker 1: a tragic sort of frame of mind when there is

1694
01:48:18,000 --> 01:48:21,200
Speaker 1: no by by means too, because we don't have to

1695
01:48:21,680 --> 01:48:26,280
Speaker 1: legitimate political parties anymore. I mean, if people were trying

1696
01:48:26,400 --> 01:48:30,000
Speaker 1: to make him sound and act like a senile old man,

1697
01:48:30,520 --> 01:48:33,680
Speaker 1: they couldn't do a better job of it. Okay. Uh,

1698
01:48:33,960 --> 01:48:38,479
Speaker 1: there is no bi partisanship possibility now. Uh, that was

1699
01:48:38,560 --> 01:48:43,720
Speaker 1: the first unforced Sarah Merrick Garland. I mean really, Uh,

1700
01:48:43,840 --> 01:48:48,880
Speaker 1: what was don knots not available? You know? I mean

1701
01:48:49,760 --> 01:48:52,639
Speaker 1: an attorney general. It should be Malcolm Nance, it should

1702
01:48:52,680 --> 01:48:54,519
Speaker 1: be you know, and people, well, you're not an attorney.

1703
01:48:54,680 --> 01:48:56,479
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. We don't need an attorney, We

1704
01:48:56,600 --> 01:49:03,120
Speaker 1: need a general. You know. Uh. Afghanistan an absolute disaster.

1705
01:49:03,840 --> 01:49:06,800
Speaker 1: I don't care what anybody says. I'll argue this all

1706
01:49:06,920 --> 01:49:10,320
Speaker 1: day long. Okay. All we had to do was keep Kab,

1707
01:49:10,760 --> 01:49:14,400
Speaker 1: keep one town. Was they had at least a hundred

1708
01:49:14,479 --> 01:49:17,160
Speaker 1: fifty thousand soldiers that people are saying three hundred thousand.

1709
01:49:17,439 --> 01:49:20,120
Speaker 1: Let's cut that in half with a hundred fifty thousand

1710
01:49:20,680 --> 01:49:23,960
Speaker 1: creating an impenetrable perimeter. We could have kept the two

1711
01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:26,960
Speaker 1: air for the two bases and Kabul and I think

1712
01:49:27,000 --> 01:49:30,080
Speaker 1: a few more cities as well. Now, where is that accomplished,

1713
01:49:30,200 --> 01:49:35,120
Speaker 1: That accomplishes the main goal of all of our fun policy,

1714
01:49:35,520 --> 01:49:40,040
Speaker 1: which should be don't allow anymore Islamic states. All right,

1715
01:49:40,520 --> 01:49:43,960
Speaker 1: there's only four, you know, and and and they are

1716
01:49:44,520 --> 01:49:48,640
Speaker 1: the epitome. And the ultimate example of human rights violations

1717
01:49:48,720 --> 01:49:52,840
Speaker 1: by definition, is the problem with Palestine. Right now. I've

1718
01:49:52,880 --> 01:49:56,200
Speaker 1: been fighting for a Palestine homeland my whole life. I'm

1719
01:49:56,240 --> 01:49:59,280
Speaker 1: not gonna do it while Hamaz is in charge, forget it,

1720
01:50:00,040 --> 01:50:03,000
Speaker 1: all right, not gonna happen, man, al Right, I don't

1721
01:50:03,040 --> 01:50:07,960
Speaker 1: believe in human rights violations. And that's what surial law is,

1722
01:50:08,040 --> 01:50:11,400
Speaker 1: that's what Alamic state is. And we just gave it

1723
01:50:11,479 --> 01:50:14,360
Speaker 1: to him. Man, And what does that mean? That means

1724
01:50:14,400 --> 01:50:19,920
Speaker 1: those hundred cats died in Vain, they died for nothing,

1725
01:50:20,200 --> 01:50:23,360
Speaker 1: just like the fifty died in Vietnam. It's exactly the

1726
01:50:23,479 --> 01:50:27,640
Speaker 1: same thing. Okay, when you when you you know, in

1727
01:50:27,800 --> 01:50:31,280
Speaker 1: this case, they had a really good reason to die.

1728
01:50:31,400 --> 01:50:35,400
Speaker 1: If we had kept Afghanistan, you know, at least a

1729
01:50:35,520 --> 01:50:39,840
Speaker 1: city or two kept it from becoming Islamic state. There's

1730
01:50:39,920 --> 01:50:43,719
Speaker 1: plan to justify then, just for the women, the women's

1731
01:50:43,840 --> 01:50:48,559
Speaker 1: rights along justifies that, you know, then those hundred died

1732
01:50:48,640 --> 01:50:53,479
Speaker 1: for good reason. Fighting Islamic extremism. That's something that's that's

1733
01:50:53,520 --> 01:50:56,240
Speaker 1: a war worth fighting every day of the week, you know,

1734
01:50:56,360 --> 01:51:00,760
Speaker 1: any religious extremism, but certainly Islamic, you know, I mean,

1735
01:51:01,280 --> 01:51:06,439
Speaker 1: you know, and instead, you know, we I mean, how

1736
01:51:06,560 --> 01:51:11,800
Speaker 1: could he follow Trump's plan that didn't alarm bells go off?

1737
01:51:12,040 --> 01:51:14,880
Speaker 1: If you're doing something you Trump suggested? What the hell's

1738
01:51:14,920 --> 01:51:18,040
Speaker 1: the matter with you? And the incline and all the

1739
01:51:18,120 --> 01:51:21,880
Speaker 1: guys around them, What were they thinking? You know, Yeah,

1740
01:51:22,000 --> 01:51:24,760
Speaker 1: let's get out of the forever war? What about the

1741
01:51:24,800 --> 01:51:27,760
Speaker 1: forever war in Japan and Germany and Korea? What about that?

1742
01:51:28,640 --> 01:51:31,040
Speaker 1: We're there for a reason, and it's a good reason,

1743
01:51:32,080 --> 01:51:36,240
Speaker 1: you know. It's it's called keeping an eye on things

1744
01:51:36,680 --> 01:51:41,120
Speaker 1: so we can maintain some freedom and democracy and all

1745
01:51:41,160 --> 01:51:46,560
Speaker 1: those good things. Man. You know, instead it bandons Afghanistan,

1746
01:51:46,760 --> 01:51:48,960
Speaker 1: you know, and God knows we're not going to go.

1747
01:51:49,360 --> 01:51:52,360
Speaker 1: It ain't gonna be good. It's one unforced ver after

1748
01:51:52,400 --> 01:51:55,400
Speaker 1: the other. Cuba is another one. Yeah, follow Trump's plan

1749
01:51:55,520 --> 01:51:58,960
Speaker 1: on Cuba? What a good idea? You know. Cuban right

1750
01:51:59,000 --> 01:52:01,040
Speaker 1: wing have been this to me off ever since they

1751
01:52:01,080 --> 01:52:04,439
Speaker 1: got here. You know, they hate for they hate the

1752
01:52:04,479 --> 01:52:07,320
Speaker 1: Castro brothers, so much that they want to vote for Trump.

1753
01:52:08,280 --> 01:52:13,320
Speaker 1: That makes sense. Huh, you know, come on, man, I mean,

1754
01:52:13,439 --> 01:52:15,599
Speaker 1: these people don't give a ship about their own brothers

1755
01:52:15,640 --> 01:52:18,560
Speaker 1: and sisters in Cuba. That's what pisces be off. You know,

1756
01:52:18,880 --> 01:52:21,800
Speaker 1: they think a boycott hurts the fucking Castro brothers. What

1757
01:52:22,280 --> 01:52:26,320
Speaker 1: what planet do you want? You know, the idiots, they're idiots,

1758
01:52:26,560 --> 01:52:29,800
Speaker 1: you know, And you know, of course we should normalize

1759
01:52:30,000 --> 01:52:33,719
Speaker 1: relations with Cuba. Of course we should. You know, anyway

1760
01:52:34,040 --> 01:52:36,760
Speaker 1: you want unforced that after the other man, and and

1761
01:52:36,960 --> 01:52:41,599
Speaker 1: you know, and right now, uh, you know, these two,

1762
01:52:41,800 --> 01:52:46,559
Speaker 1: these two fucking little life bene Edictonald Twins, Mission and Cinema,

1763
01:52:47,040 --> 01:52:49,679
Speaker 1: they're gonna kill the Democratic Party and they kill Biden's

1764
01:52:50,320 --> 01:52:54,000
Speaker 1: presidency and they may be killing democracy. That's how bad

1765
01:52:54,080 --> 01:52:56,639
Speaker 1: things are right now. I mean, twenty states are already

1766
01:52:56,640 --> 01:53:01,599
Speaker 1: passing laws. Twenty states, all right, they're already passing laws.

1767
01:53:01,720 --> 01:53:06,840
Speaker 1: Not just voter suppression. That's what everybody talks about. It's

1768
01:53:06,880 --> 01:53:10,760
Speaker 1: a voter nullification. Everybody needs to learn the word nullification.

1769
01:53:11,479 --> 01:53:14,920
Speaker 1: That's what's going on. And that means it doesn't matter

1770
01:53:14,960 --> 01:53:19,519
Speaker 1: who we vote for. Suppression can be overcome. It shouldn't exist.

1771
01:53:19,840 --> 01:53:22,240
Speaker 1: But it should, but it can be overcome like like

1772
01:53:22,560 --> 01:53:26,360
Speaker 1: you know, Stacy Abels didn't in Georgia, so overcame it.

1773
01:53:27,120 --> 01:53:30,479
Speaker 1: Nullification is the whole another trip. That means it doesn't

1774
01:53:30,479 --> 01:53:32,559
Speaker 1: matter who wins. They sort of vote to the garbage

1775
01:53:32,640 --> 01:53:35,760
Speaker 1: camp and the state legislators decides who wins, which is

1776
01:53:35,840 --> 01:53:39,120
Speaker 1: exactly what Trump was trying to do, you know, last

1777
01:53:39,280 --> 01:53:42,720
Speaker 1: last election. Well, now what's happening for real? You know,

1778
01:53:43,600 --> 01:53:47,240
Speaker 1: And I mean we are in big trouble and I

1779
01:53:47,360 --> 01:53:50,000
Speaker 1: don't see I don't see the good guys rising to

1780
01:53:50,120 --> 01:53:52,800
Speaker 1: the occasion here. Man. We'll see, we'll see how they

1781
01:53:53,160 --> 01:53:55,639
Speaker 1: if they go after the subpoenas you know, for January,

1782
01:53:55,680 --> 01:53:58,720
Speaker 1: the January six to you know, if they actually put

1783
01:53:58,800 --> 01:54:01,880
Speaker 1: these suckers in jail, they're all right, you know, maybe

1784
01:54:01,920 --> 01:54:04,439
Speaker 1: maybe we got a chance here. But I'll see it.

1785
01:54:05,320 --> 01:54:07,160
Speaker 1: I mean, look look at the look at the sentences

1786
01:54:07,200 --> 01:54:09,840
Speaker 1: are getting. Look at the sentences these guys again, you know,

1787
01:54:10,040 --> 01:54:14,160
Speaker 1: for tresh passing, you know, six months for you know,

1788
01:54:14,640 --> 01:54:20,320
Speaker 1: violation of some curfew or something. Excis sort of the government. Man,

1789
01:54:21,120 --> 01:54:23,880
Speaker 1: what what kind of sentences these people getting? You know,

1790
01:54:24,720 --> 01:54:27,280
Speaker 1: I mean it's just you know, you keep play cating

1791
01:54:27,360 --> 01:54:29,840
Speaker 1: and playcating and playcating, and we've done it all of

1792
01:54:29,880 --> 01:54:33,360
Speaker 1: our lives. Man, What what other country puts up statues

1793
01:54:33,600 --> 01:54:36,240
Speaker 1: and names army basis after the cats were trying to

1794
01:54:36,280 --> 01:54:41,000
Speaker 1: overthrow the government? Only US assholes do that? You known

1795
01:54:41,080 --> 01:54:43,440
Speaker 1: to play kate, play k play k don't don't want

1796
01:54:43,440 --> 01:54:45,520
Speaker 1: to piss them off too much? You know, then we

1797
01:54:45,640 --> 01:54:49,120
Speaker 1: try to end America. You only try to overthrow a government.

1798
01:54:49,360 --> 01:54:51,040
Speaker 1: You know. We don't want to piss them off too much.

1799
01:54:51,520 --> 01:54:54,320
Speaker 1: I mean, what the fuss are mattering with us? Were

1800
01:54:54,320 --> 01:54:58,520
Speaker 1: are the tough, good guys? Man? You know that? So

1801
01:54:58,880 --> 01:55:00,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I don't know what going here,

1802
01:55:00,600 --> 01:55:03,920
Speaker 1: but it ain't looking good. It ain't looking good, Okay.

1803
01:55:04,120 --> 01:55:07,760
Speaker 1: I thought that once they got rid of abortion there'd

1804
01:55:07,800 --> 01:55:11,120
Speaker 1: be riots in the street. Leaders to say that didn't happen.

1805
01:55:11,600 --> 01:55:15,800
Speaker 1: By the same token, we had spontaneous demonstrations around the

1806
01:55:15,960 --> 01:55:20,840
Speaker 1: world with George Floyd. What will be the trigger to

1807
01:55:21,000 --> 01:55:24,680
Speaker 1: make those on the left wake up and take action? Well,

1808
01:55:24,760 --> 01:55:26,680
Speaker 1: that's that's a that's a good question, because it should

1809
01:55:26,720 --> 01:55:30,440
Speaker 1: have happened by now. It doesn't help when all the

1810
01:55:30,520 --> 01:55:36,200
Speaker 1: anchors on TV use the word abortion instead of equal

1811
01:55:36,360 --> 01:55:40,360
Speaker 1: women's rights, because that's what we're talking about. We're talking

1812
01:55:40,400 --> 01:55:44,400
Speaker 1: about women's equal rights. What they do with those rights

1813
01:55:44,480 --> 01:55:48,280
Speaker 1: is their business, you know. And every time we say

1814
01:55:48,320 --> 01:55:51,640
Speaker 1: that we're abortion abortion, abortion, it's like we like abortion.

1815
01:55:51,840 --> 01:55:57,400
Speaker 1: Nobody likes abortion. Who likes abortion? Nobody? Okay? And if

1816
01:55:57,440 --> 01:56:00,480
Speaker 1: you're serious about not liking abortion, there should be a

1817
01:56:00,640 --> 01:56:04,600
Speaker 1: lot more sex education. We should condoms everywhere for free

1818
01:56:05,040 --> 01:56:09,160
Speaker 1: and a healthy encouragement of oral sex. If you get

1819
01:56:09,280 --> 01:56:11,200
Speaker 1: rid of abortion, you get rid of rape. So what's

1820
01:56:11,200 --> 01:56:16,960
Speaker 1: the problem right now? In Texas? A father can rape

1821
01:56:17,040 --> 01:56:20,600
Speaker 1: his daughter, all right, and then get ten thousand dollars

1822
01:56:20,800 --> 01:56:24,440
Speaker 1: with the bounty if she goes to she goes and

1823
01:56:24,520 --> 01:56:27,440
Speaker 1: tries to have an abortion. He can get paid for

1824
01:56:27,600 --> 01:56:31,000
Speaker 1: rape and his daughter in Texas. Okay. I mean we

1825
01:56:31,120 --> 01:56:35,280
Speaker 1: are insane, man, We're losing our minds. And I wish

1826
01:56:35,320 --> 01:56:37,880
Speaker 1: I could answer that question bile, because that's the question.

1827
01:56:38,120 --> 01:56:39,920
Speaker 1: What was it gonna take for these guys to wake up?

1828
01:56:40,280 --> 01:56:44,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. But Joe Biden, you know, he's living

1829
01:56:44,080 --> 01:56:47,520
Speaker 1: in the past. Man. I'm sorry. You know, he's a

1830
01:56:47,640 --> 01:56:50,920
Speaker 1: right guy at the wrong time. And Obama was too.

1831
01:56:51,000 --> 01:56:52,800
Speaker 1: I hate to say it, you know, as much as

1832
01:56:52,880 --> 01:56:55,200
Speaker 1: I just love the fact that we could elect the

1833
01:56:55,240 --> 01:56:58,280
Speaker 1: black man in the country this prejudice. I mean, it

1834
01:56:58,360 --> 01:57:03,640
Speaker 1: was a miracle. But you know again, you know, bringing

1835
01:57:03,680 --> 01:57:06,400
Speaker 1: a knife to a gunfight. Now he's not even bringing

1836
01:57:06,440 --> 01:57:09,200
Speaker 1: a knife in his gunfight. He's bringing you know, I

1837
01:57:09,240 --> 01:57:13,760
Speaker 1: don't know what you know? And I mean it can't

1838
01:57:13,880 --> 01:57:17,800
Speaker 1: go on much longer. I mean two is around the corner. Okay,

1839
01:57:17,840 --> 01:57:21,000
Speaker 1: you happen to watch Do you watch Bill Maher? Yeah?

1840
01:57:21,440 --> 01:57:24,320
Speaker 1: Did you watch the new rule last Friday night when

1841
01:57:24,320 --> 01:57:27,200
Speaker 1: he played it out? I think I was on the

1842
01:57:27,240 --> 01:57:32,800
Speaker 1: show last Friday, was on the you're on the first segment,

1843
01:57:33,240 --> 01:57:36,800
Speaker 1: So did you want did you watch what he played

1844
01:57:36,840 --> 01:57:39,880
Speaker 1: it out with the legislatures, etcetera. I had to go

1845
01:57:39,960 --> 01:57:42,520
Speaker 1: to another event, and it's everything we know. I mean,

1846
01:57:42,600 --> 01:57:45,160
Speaker 1: you know what's going on. Uh w. They have their

1847
01:57:45,200 --> 01:57:47,400
Speaker 1: own slate there. You know, they're get they're taking away

1848
01:57:47,480 --> 01:57:49,680
Speaker 1: the power of the Secretary of State, the people in

1849
01:57:49,840 --> 01:57:54,160
Speaker 1: charge of you know, it's like it's all obvious that

1850
01:57:54,320 --> 01:57:57,840
Speaker 1: what's going up now is fighting fighting. The veracity of

1851
01:57:58,960 --> 01:58:00,920
Speaker 1: it is not about getting him back at power. It's

1852
01:58:00,920 --> 01:58:04,840
Speaker 1: about winning in that's right, and and and and and

1853
01:58:05,000 --> 01:58:07,920
Speaker 1: and really is all you need they don't even need

1854
01:58:08,000 --> 01:58:11,160
Speaker 1: twenty four All it is three more votes in the

1855
01:58:11,240 --> 01:58:14,280
Speaker 1: House and one vote in the Senate and it's over.

1856
01:58:15,120 --> 01:58:21,080
Speaker 1: Biden becomes you know, Jimmy Carter. Okay, just a couple

1857
01:58:21,080 --> 01:58:24,240
Speaker 1: of things. I'm gonna let you go. So you literally

1858
01:58:24,440 --> 01:58:27,920
Speaker 1: talked to Bruce every day. What do you talk about?

1859
01:58:28,280 --> 01:58:30,640
Speaker 1: And how long was that period where you were kind

1860
01:58:30,640 --> 01:58:34,800
Speaker 1: of on the outs? We um, you know, I I

1861
01:58:35,160 --> 01:58:38,120
Speaker 1: talked about our three our three big fights of our lives,

1862
01:58:38,280 --> 01:58:40,960
Speaker 1: and and and we were reconciled pretty quickly, you know,

1863
01:58:41,040 --> 01:58:43,920
Speaker 1: well from all of them. Uh, we don't we don't

1864
01:58:44,000 --> 01:58:46,680
Speaker 1: leave it out there too long, you know. And I

1865
01:58:46,720 --> 01:58:49,680
Speaker 1: think that comes from our basic bond, which is, you know,

1866
01:58:50,280 --> 01:58:53,080
Speaker 1: really pretty solid, coming from when we were kids and

1867
01:58:53,920 --> 01:58:56,200
Speaker 1: and we were the only other freaking town man, you know.

1868
01:58:56,760 --> 01:58:58,840
Speaker 1: And you know, if we're the only freak, you know,

1869
01:58:59,240 --> 01:59:01,600
Speaker 1: maybe there's something all with you. But if it's two

1870
01:59:01,640 --> 01:59:04,680
Speaker 1: of you, you know, maybe there's hope, and maybe there's

1871
01:59:04,680 --> 01:59:07,720
Speaker 1: gonna be maybe around and something, you know. And I

1872
01:59:07,920 --> 01:59:11,040
Speaker 1: and we really needed each other at that age, and

1873
01:59:11,160 --> 01:59:14,800
Speaker 1: I think that really bonded us forever. You know. Um,

1874
01:59:14,960 --> 01:59:17,120
Speaker 1: So when when we fight or you know, we have disagreement.

1875
01:59:17,640 --> 01:59:20,000
Speaker 1: They didn't last too long. They really donna last too long.

1876
01:59:20,240 --> 01:59:23,800
Speaker 1: But you literally connect with him every day. Yeah, I'm

1877
01:59:23,920 --> 01:59:26,440
Speaker 1: almost almost, you know, you know, might might miss a

1878
01:59:26,520 --> 01:59:28,640
Speaker 1: day or two here and there, but we text, you

1879
01:59:28,720 --> 01:59:30,520
Speaker 1: know or something. You know, what do you what do

1880
01:59:30,600 --> 01:59:33,400
Speaker 1: you talk about? Whatever is going on? You know, it's

1881
01:59:33,440 --> 01:59:36,520
Speaker 1: like getting two friends. You know. We were you know,

1882
01:59:37,640 --> 01:59:40,400
Speaker 1: rooting for rooting for his daughter in the Olympics, you know,

1883
01:59:40,480 --> 01:59:44,640
Speaker 1: and man, that was something that was exciting. Come away

1884
01:59:44,680 --> 01:59:48,200
Speaker 1: with a silver metal, you know. Um, and we talked

1885
01:59:48,200 --> 01:59:51,920
Speaker 1: about all kinds of different things were um, you know,

1886
01:59:51,960 --> 01:59:54,040
Speaker 1: we're doing a big event. This is this Sunday is

1887
01:59:54,080 --> 01:59:59,280
Speaker 1: gonna interview me about the book? And uh, man, no

1888
01:59:59,440 --> 02:00:04,200
Speaker 1: whatever and whatever. Okay, So let's say, hypothetically, I waive

1889
02:00:04,280 --> 02:00:09,200
Speaker 1: my magic wand you are completely in control of Bruce

1890
02:00:09,720 --> 02:00:13,640
Speaker 1: and the Street Band. What should be their next step?

1891
02:00:13,840 --> 02:00:21,040
Speaker 1: What should be the direction if you are in charge? Well,

1892
02:00:21,160 --> 02:00:23,920
Speaker 1: I think I think at this point it's just it's this.

1893
02:00:24,120 --> 02:00:26,560
Speaker 1: It's this kind of obvious, isn't it. I mean, we uh,

1894
02:00:27,600 --> 02:00:30,840
Speaker 1: you know, hopefully this virus will cooperate and we're a

1895
02:00:30,840 --> 02:00:34,720
Speaker 1: little bit of luck to be back on tour next year. Um,

1896
02:00:35,960 --> 02:00:39,240
Speaker 1: I think, you know, playing inside might be a little

1897
02:00:39,240 --> 02:00:43,040
Speaker 1: bit dodgy for a while, so maybe we'll probably start outside.

1898
02:00:43,520 --> 02:00:46,280
Speaker 1: You know, it would be my guests. And I'm guessing

1899
02:00:46,720 --> 02:00:50,240
Speaker 1: right now, okay with your magic wand I'm guessing, uh,

1900
02:00:51,080 --> 02:00:53,640
Speaker 1: you know, but if we do go out, it will

1901
02:00:53,680 --> 02:00:56,680
Speaker 1: probably be go out for two years. I would like

1902
02:00:56,800 --> 02:00:59,800
Speaker 1: to go to some new places. I always do. I'm

1903
02:01:00,000 --> 02:01:04,520
Speaker 1: always arguing for that. Um you know, uh, maybe a

1904
02:01:04,560 --> 02:01:06,320
Speaker 1: little bit more time in the Far East, but we

1905
02:01:06,360 --> 02:01:10,440
Speaker 1: don't spend much time in you know, maybe Dubai, so

1906
02:01:10,680 --> 02:01:14,400
Speaker 1: maybe Israel, just to piss off those boycott people, you know,

1907
02:01:14,840 --> 02:01:17,160
Speaker 1: I would just like to do that effort for just

1908
02:01:17,600 --> 02:01:21,000
Speaker 1: you know, they've been, they've been, you know, as obnoxious

1909
02:01:21,040 --> 02:01:24,360
Speaker 1: as humanly possible. And we never even had it on

1910
02:01:24,440 --> 02:01:27,280
Speaker 1: the schedule. You know. It was like, how dare you

1911
02:01:27,880 --> 02:01:32,200
Speaker 1: think about playing Israel's not gonna hear all these adolescent

1912
02:01:32,320 --> 02:01:35,720
Speaker 1: insults to me videos. I'm like, we never even thought

1913
02:01:35,760 --> 02:01:39,440
Speaker 1: about it, but I'm thinking about it now, you know,

1914
02:01:42,680 --> 02:01:44,600
Speaker 1: So you know I'd like to go. I'd like to

1915
02:01:44,640 --> 02:01:46,560
Speaker 1: do with places where we have been. It's always fun

1916
02:01:46,680 --> 02:01:50,080
Speaker 1: to break in a new crowd, you know, I mean China, man,

1917
02:01:50,240 --> 02:01:52,960
Speaker 1: you know, we gotta get to China soon. I went

1918
02:01:53,000 --> 02:01:55,760
Speaker 1: to China for one day. I was trying to get

1919
02:01:55,800 --> 02:01:58,360
Speaker 1: my radio show on there, and um, I wanted to

1920
02:01:58,400 --> 02:02:01,600
Speaker 1: be the first Western DJ and China to tign them

1921
02:02:01,600 --> 02:02:05,120
Speaker 1: off right, you know. And uh. And I talked to

1922
02:02:05,280 --> 02:02:07,600
Speaker 1: some people and I said, you know, too many people

1923
02:02:07,680 --> 02:02:09,840
Speaker 1: come play here. And they say, well, we don't really

1924
02:02:09,960 --> 02:02:13,160
Speaker 1: like live music too much. I was like, what do

1925
02:02:13,200 --> 02:02:15,720
Speaker 1: you mean. They said, well, we're so we're they're so

1926
02:02:15,920 --> 02:02:19,600
Speaker 1: used to lip syncing, you know that that live music.

1927
02:02:19,680 --> 02:02:24,960
Speaker 1: This sounds too sloppy. Was like, oh, man, we gotta

1928
02:02:24,960 --> 02:02:28,720
Speaker 1: get to China soon before it's too late, you know, yeah,

1929
02:02:28,760 --> 02:02:31,360
Speaker 1: we gotta we gotta start changing those heads around. Man,

1930
02:02:31,800 --> 02:02:35,200
Speaker 1: come on, you know too sloppy. We take great pride

1931
02:02:35,240 --> 02:02:39,280
Speaker 1: in our sloppy is you know. But the only thing

1932
02:02:39,360 --> 02:02:41,800
Speaker 1: in terms of records, you and me both know, the

1933
02:02:41,920 --> 02:02:46,800
Speaker 1: landscape has completely changed. The action Spoti type spotify tough.

1934
02:02:46,880 --> 02:02:49,640
Speaker 1: If you are nowhere nearer as big as the action

1935
02:02:49,720 --> 02:02:53,320
Speaker 1: the sixties, never mind the seventies and eighties. And if

1936
02:02:53,400 --> 02:02:56,240
Speaker 1: you are an act, you could put out a record

1937
02:02:56,280 --> 02:03:01,080
Speaker 1: and people don't even know. So I was thinking, Max Martin,

1938
02:03:01,120 --> 02:03:03,760
Speaker 1: who I barely know, met a few times, talked a

1939
02:03:03,840 --> 02:03:07,520
Speaker 1: few times. He started out as a real rock musician.

1940
02:03:08,840 --> 02:03:11,560
Speaker 1: How about if Bruce tried to make a record with him.

1941
02:03:12,000 --> 02:03:14,160
Speaker 1: You know that This is what Paul McCartney did about

1942
02:03:14,200 --> 02:03:18,480
Speaker 1: twenty years ago with Nigel Goodrich. He worked with Radiohead

1943
02:03:19,080 --> 02:03:21,520
Speaker 1: and then Nigel said, you know, I think it could

1944
02:03:21,560 --> 02:03:24,120
Speaker 1: do better on a song. This is writing a song,

1945
02:03:24,480 --> 02:03:28,200
Speaker 1: And Paul McCartney says, I'm Paul McCartney. No, I I

1946
02:03:28,320 --> 02:03:32,840
Speaker 1: know it's done. But I think you know that you

1947
02:03:32,960 --> 02:03:36,040
Speaker 1: talk about Hungry heart Land, all that dancing in the dark.

1948
02:03:36,200 --> 02:03:41,160
Speaker 1: I think there could be another one. Well, I you know,

1949
02:03:41,440 --> 02:03:43,800
Speaker 1: you can't rule it out because because there's no there's

1950
02:03:43,840 --> 02:03:49,840
Speaker 1: no real rules. Um I think uh, I think, well,

1951
02:03:49,920 --> 02:03:52,680
Speaker 1: what happened the first time, it could happen again, which

1952
02:03:52,800 --> 02:03:57,440
Speaker 1: was a real ground swell. We were so popular live

1953
02:03:58,440 --> 02:04:02,320
Speaker 1: they started to become a problem for radio not playing us.

1954
02:04:02,720 --> 02:04:04,760
Speaker 1: You know, there's as a certain point if you can

1955
02:04:04,800 --> 02:04:07,960
Speaker 1: actually get that groundswell going. I'm not sure you know

1956
02:04:08,400 --> 02:04:10,920
Speaker 1: it could happen exactly the same way, but I think

1957
02:04:10,960 --> 02:04:13,280
Speaker 1: it's possible. You know that just in the middle of

1958
02:04:13,600 --> 02:04:16,880
Speaker 1: let's say our next tour really just explodes and selling

1959
02:04:16,920 --> 02:04:20,520
Speaker 1: out multiple stadiums everywhere. You know, you might have enough

1960
02:04:20,560 --> 02:04:25,360
Speaker 1: momentum to just start having radio loosen up a little bit.

1961
02:04:25,480 --> 02:04:30,480
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know why classic rock refuses to

1962
02:04:30,520 --> 02:04:33,400
Speaker 1: play new things. I don't get it. I've done speeches

1963
02:04:33,480 --> 02:04:36,280
Speaker 1: at their conventions and talk to them. I know them all.

1964
02:04:37,040 --> 02:04:39,560
Speaker 1: Half of them are running my my show in syndication,

1965
02:04:40,120 --> 02:04:43,440
Speaker 1: and I'm like, why, you know, why would you play

1966
02:04:43,760 --> 02:04:46,560
Speaker 1: Hey June every two hours and not play a new

1967
02:04:46,640 --> 02:04:49,160
Speaker 1: song by Paul McCartney. Why why would you play Brown

1968
02:04:49,240 --> 02:04:51,720
Speaker 1: Sugar every two hours and not play a new song

1969
02:04:51,800 --> 02:04:54,880
Speaker 1: by the Stones? You know, I don't get it, and

1970
02:04:55,120 --> 02:04:58,040
Speaker 1: I agree with you. But the ship is sailed. Radio

1971
02:04:58,440 --> 02:05:01,600
Speaker 1: is nowhere near as powerful as it once was. Both

1972
02:05:01,960 --> 02:05:04,640
Speaker 1: that's good because the gatekeeper is not as strong. That's

1973
02:05:04,720 --> 02:05:06,560
Speaker 1: bad because the rest of the rule is the tower

1974
02:05:06,640 --> 02:05:08,960
Speaker 1: of Babel. Well that's the thing. You say that that,

1975
02:05:09,280 --> 02:05:12,200
Speaker 1: but that that. But the point is, let's just assume,

1976
02:05:12,280 --> 02:05:15,000
Speaker 1: for the sake of discussion, there was that definitive track,

1977
02:05:15,440 --> 02:05:17,800
Speaker 1: which I don't think Bruce has had recently. But we

1978
02:05:18,040 --> 02:05:21,200
Speaker 1: we won't argue about that. You have that definitive track.

1979
02:05:22,080 --> 02:05:26,960
Speaker 1: Those people at Spotify etcetera. They are dying to make

1980
02:05:27,040 --> 02:05:30,000
Speaker 1: their bones on ship like this. They will give it

1981
02:05:30,040 --> 02:05:33,480
Speaker 1: a good shot. These alternative sources radio, Yeah, the old

1982
02:05:33,520 --> 02:05:36,160
Speaker 1: people who listen to radio, etcetera. But the active buyer

1983
02:05:36,320 --> 02:05:42,360
Speaker 1: is online. I'm just it's possible. I'm just not sure. Uh,

1984
02:05:42,520 --> 02:05:46,960
Speaker 1: the infrastructure that we now exist in, Uh you can

1985
02:05:47,040 --> 02:05:51,760
Speaker 1: have that mass shared experience. I don't know. I don't think.

1986
02:05:51,800 --> 02:05:54,360
Speaker 1: I don't think you can have it. It's too fragmented,

1987
02:05:54,440 --> 02:05:57,120
Speaker 1: isn't It's too fragmenting. I mean it is. But as

1988
02:05:57,160 --> 02:06:00,640
Speaker 1: you stated earlier, rock is it the bottom in terms

1989
02:06:00,680 --> 02:06:03,240
Speaker 1: of recordings, not in terms of live So if you

1990
02:06:03,320 --> 02:06:05,640
Speaker 1: look at this track that Max Martin did with the

1991
02:06:05,720 --> 02:06:08,960
Speaker 1: Weekend and the Cold cold Play, cold Play was never

1992
02:06:09,040 --> 02:06:12,280
Speaker 1: gonna have a hit without Max Martin. The song is

1993
02:06:12,360 --> 02:06:19,040
Speaker 1: not a one listened smash, okay, but gigantic success. I'm

1994
02:06:19,120 --> 02:06:23,200
Speaker 1: not saying Bruce needs to sell out. But you know,

1995
02:06:23,280 --> 02:06:26,960
Speaker 1: I had this discussion what the fund is his name?

1996
02:06:27,040 --> 02:06:30,240
Speaker 1: You know, the hopper, Dave Cobb. Okay. I was talking

1997
02:06:30,280 --> 02:06:32,760
Speaker 1: to the manager's good friend of mine, manages Garth Brooks.

1998
02:06:32,920 --> 02:06:36,160
Speaker 1: Garth Brooks very loyal to his people. I said, hey

1999
02:06:36,200 --> 02:06:38,000
Speaker 1: should work with Dave Cobb, and he says, you know,

2000
02:06:38,120 --> 02:06:40,720
Speaker 1: it's not my choice. Garth is loyal to his people.

2001
02:06:41,680 --> 02:06:44,240
Speaker 1: But I think, first of all, Dave Cobb will be

2002
02:06:44,280 --> 02:06:48,120
Speaker 1: a perfect match for Bruce. That's what he does. But

2003
02:06:48,200 --> 02:06:50,960
Speaker 1: if you want to single, you work with Max Martin

2004
02:06:51,360 --> 02:06:54,840
Speaker 1: worst case scenario. It's a learning experience. I'm not saying

2005
02:06:54,880 --> 02:06:57,760
Speaker 1: somebody to sell out just to pull you into a

2006
02:06:57,840 --> 02:07:00,440
Speaker 1: different space. But I'll get off my soul box and

2007
02:07:00,480 --> 02:07:03,480
Speaker 1: I'll go to my final thing here. Okay, you read

2008
02:07:03,560 --> 02:07:07,040
Speaker 1: the book. You've had so many experiences that if you

2009
02:07:07,200 --> 02:07:11,160
Speaker 1: die tomorrow, you know you've had a great life in

2010
02:07:11,280 --> 02:07:13,920
Speaker 1: the anywhere from one minute to twenty five years. You

2011
02:07:14,000 --> 02:07:17,080
Speaker 1: have left anything left and left that you want to

2012
02:07:17,200 --> 02:07:22,920
Speaker 1: do accomplish personal career wise, well, I don't know, I

2013
02:07:23,320 --> 02:07:28,280
Speaker 1: I really have in some ways. I just kind of

2014
02:07:28,680 --> 02:07:33,120
Speaker 1: discovered a whole new way of making records and writing songs, uh,

2015
02:07:33,880 --> 02:07:36,440
Speaker 1: which sounds funny because it's the way everybody else does it.

2016
02:07:36,560 --> 02:07:41,320
Speaker 1: But my last my lowest album is the first fictional

2017
02:07:41,400 --> 02:07:45,760
Speaker 1: album I've ever done, you know, and uh and and

2018
02:07:46,000 --> 02:07:49,320
Speaker 1: and fiction is fun, you know, it takes a lot

2019
02:07:49,400 --> 02:07:53,839
Speaker 1: of pressure off U, all this life and death stuff.

2020
02:07:54,440 --> 02:07:57,880
Speaker 1: So I don't know that. I wonder where that could go. Um.

2021
02:07:58,720 --> 02:08:04,040
Speaker 1: I got five completed scripts and twenty five treatments, uh,

2022
02:08:04,960 --> 02:08:08,040
Speaker 1: any of which I think would be really enjoyable TV shows.

2023
02:08:08,080 --> 02:08:11,160
Speaker 1: I like to do more of that. Um. Live, I

2024
02:08:11,520 --> 02:08:15,480
Speaker 1: love producing live events the most. The Broadway show I did.

2025
02:08:15,920 --> 02:08:18,160
Speaker 1: I think it was the high point of my artistic life.

2026
02:08:19,640 --> 02:08:23,560
Speaker 1: I I love, you know, writing, directing, producing, and and

2027
02:08:23,920 --> 02:08:30,360
Speaker 1: really uh doing something that is entertaining with substance live.

2028
02:08:30,560 --> 02:08:33,360
Speaker 1: I mean, there's nothing quite like live. So, you know,

2029
02:08:33,560 --> 02:08:36,240
Speaker 1: as as much as I love TV, and I have

2030
02:08:36,280 --> 02:08:40,120
Speaker 1: a couple of movie ideas as well. Um, we'll keep

2031
02:08:40,160 --> 02:08:44,680
Speaker 1: the Disciples Soul going if I can. But you know,

2032
02:08:44,880 --> 02:08:46,800
Speaker 1: I like, I like, I like doing a lot of things.

2033
02:08:47,320 --> 02:08:50,880
Speaker 1: So it's just a matter of staying busy and uh

2034
02:08:51,760 --> 02:08:56,080
Speaker 1: finding a patron to pay for it. That's my That's

2035
02:08:56,160 --> 02:08:58,600
Speaker 1: my goal in life, you know, and then maybe maybe

2036
02:08:58,640 --> 02:09:03,360
Speaker 1: I'll achieve my ultimate goal life, which is breaking even. Okay, Stephen,

2037
02:09:03,440 --> 02:09:06,080
Speaker 1: this has been fantastic. I want to thank you so

2038
02:09:06,240 --> 02:09:08,760
Speaker 1: much for taking the time to talk with me. My

2039
02:09:09,000 --> 02:09:12,000
Speaker 1: my my pleasure. I've always get type of liver. Okay,

2040
02:09:12,080 --> 02:09:14,760
Speaker 1: until next time, It's Bob Leftstax