WEBVTT - Ep. 43: Prawn of the Dead 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:09.200 I'm gonna create more waste because I'm worried some yucko 0:00:09.360 --> 0:00:11.760 stuck is butter type in the catch him before I 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:14.520 got there to order my pork roll sandwich. It's so 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:18.000 awesome when one or both of your clients is leaning 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:20.880 so far to one side of the boat that one 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:23.800 of your oars will not touch the water. You're doing 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.079 line class tractors to try to make a big name 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:29.120 for yourself, scarbage. I didn't get the stream name. Can 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:35.400 you tell me the stream name? The stream? Good morning, 0:00:35.479 --> 0:00:38.479 degenerate anglers, Welcome to Bend, the podcast that thinks your 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:41.400 ability to make interesting conversation in the boat and always 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.720 show up on time matters more than your proficiency with 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:47.800 a rod or the size of your tackle box. I'm 0:00:47.880 --> 0:00:52.040 Joe Surmelli A Miles nultyon. Amen to that man. I 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:55.080 will I'll take an interesting fishing buddy over and experienced one. 0:00:55.160 --> 0:00:59.880 Every single right, to be clear, To be clear, I'm 0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:03.120 not advocating ignorance. Right. If we've been fishing together for 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:05.720 like five years and you haven't bothered to learn how 0:01:05.760 --> 0:01:07.800 to tie on a leader or back up a trailer, 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.399 then you're just lazy or not. Actually that interested in fishing, 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:13.120 in which case that strong chance I wouldn't, I wouldn't 0:01:13.120 --> 0:01:15.120 be fishing with you for five years, like I would 0:01:15.160 --> 0:01:18.560 have given up on you a lot sooner than five years. 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:24.320 But the argument I'm a big sake of the argument 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:26.760 guy exactly. So I gotta say that part of what 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:28.280 I love about my job I always have is that 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:31.880 I've gotten fish with many different people and get exposed 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:35.360 to just tons of different approaches in different places, different 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:39.000 rigs and techniques. Um. But the flip side of that 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:44.160 diverse fishing experience is that I'm constantly shown how little 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:47.440 I actually know. You know what I mean, Like, I'm 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.600 I've never been afraid to suck at a particular kind 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:52.200 of fishing, so long as at the end of the day, 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:54.720 I've learned something, whether I could be a new nod 0:01:54.800 --> 0:01:58.000 or new rig or even just the habits of fish 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.480 that maybe I don't target very often. So I feel 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.720 like very well versed in a broad sense. But you 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.200 get away from what you do and it's it's very 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:09.000 shocking how little you actually know. Oh yeah, and you 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:12.680 only figure that out by going and doing new things, right, 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.440 Like the most recent example I have is fishing with 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:17.320 you for shad. I've never seen a shad before in 0:02:17.320 --> 0:02:19.200 my life, and trying to figure out how to work 0:02:20.000 --> 0:02:22.760 those shad darts and like figure out the current and 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:26.000 all the different things that you showed me was was 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:27.840 a nice moment of realization, like I can figure all 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:29.160 this stuff out. I can do it, but I don't 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:31.760 know it, And had I been dropped there on my own, 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:35.000 I wouldn't have been able to Like I I I 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:37.800 think one of the things that I have learned the 0:02:37.880 --> 0:02:40.280 more fishing I've done in the more places I've learned 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.040 that I just I suck at a lot of kinds 0:02:44.080 --> 0:02:47.640 of fishing. I'm I'm I'm a pretty good learner, but 0:02:47.919 --> 0:02:50.040 there are only certain things that I'm truly good at. 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:54.359 And I'm hoping that with this particular episode that we've 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:57.679 laid out that we maybe I don't know, I hope 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:00.960 we encourage a few folks to feel comfortable sucking a 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:02.880 little bit, like I hope by us stepping out and 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.320 saying like, hey, we suck at a lot of stuff 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:08.799 when it comes to fishing, and that's okay. I hope 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:10.240 other people will take a q and be willing to 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:13.360 do that. But I am I'm slightly hesitant about this 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:16.760 week's theme. I gotta say, are you really a little 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.440 like I'm not losing sleep? This isn't It's not the 0:03:19.480 --> 0:03:23.519 main thing that's keeping me up. But I'm just truly 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:25.120 and I think you get this. I'm not sure how 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.000 this one's gonna land, right, because we're this fair. You 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:30.639 say this episode is gonna focus on fly fishing, all right, 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.160 And we talk about fly fishing on this show all 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:36.440 the time, but in the past, Joe and I we've 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.680 always made a concerted effort to make sure that we 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:42.840 talk about something else too. We get some conventional stuff 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:44.720 in there, we got some ice, we get we've never 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:48.760 gone straight fly before. No, No, that's true. And I 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:50.680 think what Miles is getting at is that we have 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.920 a we have a pretty broad mix of anglers right 0:03:53.960 --> 0:03:55.760 who listened to this show. And we say all the 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:59.320 time that we welcome everyone here at bent who likes 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.560 to fish long as you're you're thoughtful and ethical about it. 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:04.840 You're not like a dirt bag out there. Um, But 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.960 we don't we we certainly don't want to alienate anybody, 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:11.120 but the fly thing it can be kind of polarizing. 0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:14.560 We know that some of you are are dedicated fly folks. 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.640 Some of you dabble with flag gear or at least 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:19.359 you know, you're a little bit interested in it. And 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.400 some of you are either completely unfamiliar or just outright 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.680 like anti fly. And that's okay. We still we like 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:27.760 all of you, that's you know, yeah, And and we 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:30.320 hope that at least a couple of people will hear 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.159 this and and maybe feel a little differently if perhaps 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:36.159 you're on the anti side. But the thing is, it's June, 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:40.839 and it is and June where I live, Like, all 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:43.080 I think about when it comes to June is is 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:47.120 rivers just boiling with hatching insects and every fish and 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.240 every one of those rivers is chowing on those insects. 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.360 And I have been, you know, when I've been out 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.680 on the rivers, I have fish dry flies off and 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.560 on for a few months. But right now, this particularly 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:00.840 this week, is like the beginning of the prime time. 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.320 So in the spirit of that, we were thinking we 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:08.440 might spread a little unapologetic love for floating flies and 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:11.440 surface feeding trout because it's fun. Yeah. And the thing is, 0:05:11.600 --> 0:05:13.400 we know there's there's gonna be some of you who 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.720 are understandably skeptical about this, right. I mean, we look, 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.599 we work at meat Eater, right, Steve Ronnella didn't build 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:23.680 his fan base advocating for dainty dry flies and precious trout. 0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.279 But even even Steve will pick up the long rod 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:28.800 from time to time and admit how much goddamn fun 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:31.799 it is, right or can be? Um, You know, even 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.359 if he's not a huge fan of fly fishing culture, 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:37.800 that you've seen this, right, I have seen him do 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:40.760 it with my own two eyes. That is all true. 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:44.919 But I think before we we continue with our attempt 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:48.000 at a full throated appeal for wy fly fishing is 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:50.680 fun and not necessarily annoying or obnoxious, we do want 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.920 to remind all of you out there that this show 0:05:54.000 --> 0:05:57.160 is brought to you by thirteen Fishing. It is, and 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:01.000 that's that's a little awkward, for thirteen thirteen doesn't actually 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:03.080 make any fly rods, at least not yet. It's not 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:08.920 that uh, they don't yet. But even in in the 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:12.440 heaviest insect hatch and dry fly fun, I still have 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:15.719 an omen black casting rod at the ready in my boat, 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.240 rigged up with the swim bait or a jerk bait, 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:20.880 because here's here's a little tip. Here's a little tip 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.240 for everybody out there. While the small and medium sized 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.960 fish in the river are are distracted because they're stuff 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:29.400 in their faces on teeny tiny bugs, sometimes like the 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:35.320 really big fish take advantage of the smaller fish being distracted. 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:38.920 So after I've cast some flies through a pool for 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:41.640 a while and and have my fun, I'll usually pick 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:43.919 up the short stick and huck some kind of a 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.040 big bait in there a few times, just to see 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:49.560 if if Walter p brown shout or maybe an opportunistic 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:51.760 small mouth or pike is feeling a little frisky. I've 0:06:51.800 --> 0:06:54.400 had that work out well in the past. Absolutely, that's 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:56.599 it's it's a great tip. Man and I may not 0:06:56.720 --> 0:07:00.440 agree about which hand we reel um on a bait 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:03.200 caster right, because I'm a I'm a right I'm a 0:07:03.279 --> 0:07:07.240 right hand retrieved guy all the way, which I and 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:09.320 I've been called out for it recently. People are like, 0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:11.440 why is your your handle on the wrong side. I'm like, 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:14.280 I didn't switch hands yet when the photo was taken, 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:16.920 Damn you, I cast right and real right, I do 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:20.000 the switch. But anyway, we do both agree that there's 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:24.160 nothing wrong with bringing a a conventional rod on a 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:28.000 fly fishing trip. Lord knows I do it all the time, 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:31.200 me too, or go you go the other way too. 0:07:31.400 --> 0:07:33.160 There's another wrong with bringing a fly rod on a 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:37.040 conventional trip. That's fine too. And for those of you 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.240 out there feeling unsure, we're just trying to give you 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:41.880 license to go for it. Give it a shot, go 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.200 for it, just try it out. Getting in the long 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.160 rud doesn't have to be intimidating, even though some people 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:48.880 make it out that way. It's it's not that hard. 0:07:49.280 --> 0:07:51.880 And going fly fishing it doesn't mean that you like 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:55.840 gott to wear a tweed jacket with elbow patches or whatever, 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.800 like a felt hat, which I think is stupid. And 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:01.160 you don't have to extend your ky while drinking a beverage. 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.720 You don't have to do any of those things. One 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.520 last point, fishing and fly rod does not make you 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.600 any less of a degenerate. It's true I do wear 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:13.440 the tweet and it felt I choose to do so, 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:17.040 But that doesn't mean that that you have to My 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.800 tweets actually getting tight. I need bigger tweet anyway, that 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.160 was all true, and it's okay to bring a fly 0:08:22.320 --> 0:08:24.960 rod and not use it or only use it if 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.440 the situation is right, right, And I think when I 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:31.720 fish saltwater, I rarely go inshore saltwater fishing without a 0:08:31.720 --> 0:08:35.839 fly rod, but I never go with only fly rods. 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:38.240 I just don't do that. And if the situation presents 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.240 itself to get some miuse or stripers on the fly, 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:42.920 it's like a total bonus and I might fly fish 0:08:42.960 --> 0:08:45.240 all day, but I'm never going out there with just 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.400 that stuff. Right. So, anyway, today we we've kind of 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:51.280 assembled a cast of Motley characters, all of whom are 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:54.680 both professional fly angers and exactly the kinds of people 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:57.319 you just want to sit around a fire and drink 0:08:57.320 --> 0:09:02.360 whiskey with. They're all they're all legitimately interesting, good folks. 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:04.760 We're gonna start things off with our friend Alvin Adot, 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:07.160 who we've had on the show many times before, but 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:11.440 in case you forgot. Alvin is a former frontman for 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.400 the Austin based funk band Bad Mother Goose and the 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:17.719 Brothers Grimm, who started working in a fly shop during 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:20.360 the day to help pay for his rock star lifestyle, 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:23.120 and that led him down the guiding path, which is 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:26.400 what he's been doing full time now for decades. Alvin's 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:30.080 homewater is the Lower Colorado River around Austin, where he 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:33.520 just puts a hurting on the large mouth and guadeloup 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:35.480 by bass and the white bass and all kinds of 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:37.280 other stuff. I've done it with him. It's super fun. 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:40.240 But he also guides for red fish down on the coast, 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.520 and he's spent many many years chasing trout in the Rockies. 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:47.000 So yep, he's well rounded. Yep. Bottom line, Yeah, Alvin 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:49.079 knows his ship, okay, And today he's here for a 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.440 Smooth Move segment where we let guides, outfitters, shop workers, 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:54.120 and anyone else who makes a living in the fishing 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:58.000 industry tell stories about stupid or hilarious things that clients do. 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:03.800 But this one is more instructive than most. Yeah, yeah, no, 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:05.360 I mean a lot of times we're just making fun 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:10.040 of people, but Alvin actually came with a useful, functional suggestion. 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.559 Anytime you find yourself fishing out of a small boat, 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.079 particularly someone else's boat, this is this is going to 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.959 help you. And I really enjoyed recording this one. I 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.080 had a good time. I kind of forgot the mic 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:23.440 was even on. We were just bullshitting. If you've ever 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:27.319 wondered what fishing guides talk about after everyone leaves, it 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:37.920 kind of sounds like this, why why This move doesn't 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:42.880 really have a name, but it has a solution. It 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:46.400 has a you know, there's there's a cure for this move, 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:50.360 and the cure is center up, get in the middle 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:53.520 of the boat. This is one that just anybody that 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:58.040 rows the boat boat pushes the boat. You got to 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:00.520 stay in the middle of the boat. I mean, it's 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:04.240 it's it's so awesome when one or both of your 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.400 clients is leaning so far to one side of the 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.839 boat that one of your oars will not touch the water. 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:15.960 You know, you got that one. It's like digging in 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:18.640 and the other ones like catching air because the boat's 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:23.679 like on its gunnal. Yeah, So that's a that's a 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:26.280 that's a that's that's a constant one. You know, like 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:30.439 come on, man in in a In my my jet boat, 0:11:31.040 --> 0:11:34.679 there's a little logo that's on the on the bench 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.280 that I have people stand on, and I've been tempted 0:11:37.320 --> 0:11:40.680 to actually put some rails or something on either side 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.320 of the logo and be like, if you feel that 0:11:43.480 --> 0:11:45.920 rail under your foot, you need to take a step 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:50.160 in the opposite direction. But it's it's a problem. You 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.120 could just put down gaffer's tape and like a little 0:11:53.160 --> 0:11:55.840 like like create a little box, like do not step 0:11:55.880 --> 0:12:00.839 outside of the tape. I have seriously serious considered that. 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:03.600 I just tell him, looks, stay on the logo, look down, 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:05.320 and every once in a while, make sure you're on 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:08.160 the logo. But see, I can take this a step further, right, 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:10.719 because I don't know how many people I've rowed. It 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:13.840 just happened not too long ago. The dude was perfectly 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.040 centered because he had no choice because he was in 0:12:16.080 --> 0:12:19.560 the leg braces on the boat. But then we'd set 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:22.240 up on a dry fly fish and he would cast 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:25.880 with so much oomph that like the entire drift boat 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:29.760 would be rocking like we were twenty miles off shore. 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.240 And it's like, dude, I don't understand why you must 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:37.920 put so much body energy into laying how to dry 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:41.199 fly like there's no need for that. You guys have 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:43.040 you have to dealt with that too, Like I don't 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:47.280 understand it. Just stay the cat why why It's like, dude, 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:49.040 I gotta get that fly out of there. And if 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:52.520 I don't put somebody english into it. That thing is 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:56.080 not gonna make it that thirty feet to the bank. 0:12:56.559 --> 0:12:58.600 I know, I'm not gonna do with my arms. I 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:02.839 gotta do with my legs rattling around. Drinks are coming 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:07.959 out of cup holders. Lay down the atoms, all right, dude. 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:09.840 I used to have I used to have this really 0:13:09.920 --> 0:13:14.760 skinny one of those uh one of those Arkansas trout boats. 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:18.320 It was like twenty ft long, but it was super skinny, 0:13:18.520 --> 0:13:21.520 and that thing would rock from side to side. You know. 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:24.160 I had this one guy in particular. You know, it 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:28.080 was it was like five to six false cast per presentation, 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.559 and each one was just like you know, it was 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:33.440 like he was trying to knock somebody out with these swings, 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.480 and the boat would the boat would just rock from 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:40.960 side to side so violently that my back would hurt 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:43.120 at the end of the day from like me just 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:50.640 trying to overcorrect to keep myself upright. Well, I had 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:52.880 a client for many, many years. He was a really 0:13:52.920 --> 0:13:55.280 good client and good guy. But I won't use his 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:57.400 real name because I don't have to. I just nicknamed 0:13:57.480 --> 0:14:00.160 him Captain Morgan. If he would ride in the back 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.680 of my boat with his foot perched up on the 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:08.360 gunnal the entire time, just completely throwing that thing off kilter, 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:10.480 so that I was almost at a forty five degree 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:12.560 angle rowing down the river all day and I would 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:17.280 literally have to say, captain, bring it back to center 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:19.160 for me, buddy, at least ten times a day. He 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.880 always felt sorry, I'm so sorry, but within ten minutes 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.120 and be right back on the gun. Dude, I've seen it. 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.320 It's the creep. They can't help it. It's like, you know, 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.080 guys who know, Like you said, the captain knew he 0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:37.120 was supposed to stay in the center, but it's just 0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:40.160 like this weird creep thing. It's magnetic. You gotta put 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:42.520 that foot as far away from the other foot as 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:48.160 you can. So there you have it, everybody. Hot tip 0:14:48.520 --> 0:14:50.760 from Alvin to do if you really, really really want 0:14:50.760 --> 0:14:54.240 to piss off your guide, just keep rocking your body 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:56.520 weight from one side to the other all day long. Alvin, 0:14:56.520 --> 0:14:58.840 thanks so much, man, really appreciate it. Hey, thanks for 0:14:58.840 --> 0:15:04.520 having me. Man. See now, I really think that something 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.760 most casual anglers just don't know about or think about. 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:12.040 I think the centering your weight in small boats makes 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:15.000 such a huge difference, and as we've discussed I have. 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.160 I owned the mini Cooper of drift boats, as you 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.960 called it. So having the dude upfront centered in in 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:26.600 my boat in particular is extremely important to me. It's like, 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:29.360 it's very important because we might all go in okay, 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.320 it's not just a matter of being tilted, like we 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:33.760 might dump the thing. You know. It's one of those 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:36.080 things you're right, casual anglers don't think about because they 0:15:36.120 --> 0:15:39.640 don't have to. I had no idea about any of 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.160 that until I was the one driving and rowing boats 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.840 all the time, and because other people's sense of where 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:50.120 they're standing has impacted my life so much right like now, 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:52.720 it's just habit. I always keep an eye on weight 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.920 and balance when I'm in someone else's boat. Especially. Yeah, 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:59.080 it's like one of those unwritten rules of courtesy that 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:04.200 that people no notice. It's just not enough people, unfortunately. 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:08.360 And we're gonna keep rolling with this. We're gonna we're 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.280 gonna keep the theme here and bring you a fly 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:14.280 fishing tackle tip that we also think will be equally helpful. 0:16:14.840 --> 0:16:18.720 Be forewarned, this this one gets a little technical. It's 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:22.160 not difficult. This isn't a hard thing to do. It's 0:16:22.160 --> 0:16:25.360 just kind of specific, so you gotta pay attention. I'm 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:29.680 getting hacks coming from inside the city. Hi the flood. 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:34.400 So welcome back to tackle hacks. Joining us today our 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:39.760 friend and uh Montana slash Washington State guide Kinsley, Scott Kinsley. 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:41.960 How are you today? I am doing well. How are 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:44.960 you guys? We are We are great. We're gonna be 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.080 better after this because you are going to uh pull 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:52.040 from from your many years of experience guiding, um, and 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:54.080 you're gonna give us a tackle hack today, a little 0:16:54.120 --> 0:16:57.440 tip something, just a little little nugget for anglers to 0:16:57.480 --> 0:16:59.720 put in their pockets that will make them better on 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:04.640 the water. At least that's the plan. Yes, and this 0:17:04.680 --> 0:17:08.800 one may not be applicable to all trout anglers, but 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:13.040 for us here in western Montana, our bread and butter 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:18.400 are foam dry flies with droppers the majority of our 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:22.359 fishing through the entire season. Really, so my hack today 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.080 to improve your dry dropper fishing, to make life a 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:29.920 lot easier is using a shorter leader. So I run 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.880 a seven and a half foot leader to my dry fly, 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.040 and right out of the package, I actually chop off 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:43.080 about a foot off the butt section of it. Yes, 0:17:43.160 --> 0:17:46.160 and I'll explain why. So I cut about a foot 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.160 off of the butt section so that well di loop 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.280 that comes on a leader out of the factory, I 0:17:51.480 --> 0:17:54.520 retire a perfection loop. So now we'll say my leader 0:17:54.680 --> 0:17:56.800 is down to about six and a half feet, so 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.359 it's a pretty chunky taper. What that allows to do? 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:04.560 Our fish here in Montana Western Montana specifically aren't very 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:08.680 line shy spooky, especially if you're fishing a bigger bug, 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:12.119 right we'll say, like salmon fly golden stone fly season. 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:16.040 So with that six and a half foot dry fly leader, 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:20.240 that allows me to then throw a much longer dropper. 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:25.199 So say I throw a four ft dropper to you know, 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:27.199 I have a salmon fly dry and I want to 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.560 fish up pats below and I want four ft in total. 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:34.359 That would cut my entire leader system down to about 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:37.760 ten and a half feet, which is pretty manageable. Whereas 0:18:37.920 --> 0:18:39.600 if you were to keep that seven and a half 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:42.080 foot leader right out of the package with then a 0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.960 four ft leader, you're pushing about twelve ft of leader 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.560 in your cast. So if you can shorten that leader 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.760 section up, it's still going to overturn your fly, but 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:55.560 it's going to really compact things and make it a 0:18:55.640 --> 0:19:01.200 lot more manageable when casting. I love that. Yeah, that's 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:02.959 a great tip. That makes a lot of sense. My 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:04.679 only my only critique of that is a lot of 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.359 the dudes I fly fish with couldn't do that because 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:09.439 if they cut the perfection loop off, they wouldn't know 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:14.439 how to tie a new one. YouTube your phone will 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:18.920 teach you about seconds exactly. Yes, No, that's a that's 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:21.040 a great tip. I wish that I had done that 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:23.320 when I was when I was guiding, because it would 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:25.040 have probably saved me a lot of tangles that I 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:29.320 had to pick apart for the next oh forty five 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:32.720 minutes or so. So next time you're you're out there 0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:35.159 throwing big dry droppers, chop off the back end of 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:36.800 that leader. See how it works. Let us know how 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:40.720 you do. Kinsley, Thanks so much, and uh we'll we 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:43.639 look forward to another tackle hack from you soon. Thank you. Guys. 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:51.120 See I told you in a podcast many moons ago. 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.119 I've been saying all along that all you need to 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:55.600 catch fish in Montana is a big gass check and 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:59.840 that was just confessed Western Montana. She clearly what it is. 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:04.520 Do not listen specified Western Montana, and she did that 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:06.840 on purpose because she grew up on the Missouri where 0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:09.639 that's not true. And I don't know why, but the 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.360 trout and western Montana are dumber. I don't know why 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:14.439 that is, but I I am going to try this 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:16.600 trick out because I haven't had a chance to do 0:20:16.600 --> 0:20:18.200 it yet, and we're coming to salmon fly in Golden 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.920 Stone season for any any day now, really, so I'm 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:24.440 gonna I'm gonna try this one. But I was thinking 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:27.040 about it and this rigging, this tip that she gave, 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:31.160 I think it's more broadly applicable than than Kingsley realized. 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:35.200 I would suggest that this one's useful for people who 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.480 are curious about fly fishing but don't live in a 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:41.560 place with trout streams. So right the rig she was 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:43.879 talking about, the big dry fly with the dropper set up, 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.760 that is sort of a classic out West Rocky Mountain 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:53.040 trout set up, But I actually use something very similar 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.680 for panfish and bass on lakes. I've adapted that rig 0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:59.760 for warm water species, and I think that her leader 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:03.280 had would be perfect for that situation. So here's here's 0:21:03.320 --> 0:21:05.720 my version that i'd suggest you guys trying to likea 0:21:06.040 --> 0:21:09.320 do exactly what Kinsley suggests. Chop that leader to make 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:11.639 it a more magable length. Then to the end of 0:21:11.640 --> 0:21:15.160 it ties something big and buoyant, a small popper fly 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:21.520 or a diver, maybe a cicada, hey maybe, and then 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:24.119 tie a three to four foot section of a leader 0:21:24.760 --> 0:21:27.040 off the bend of the hook, you know, like four 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:30.600 six pound tests something like that, and then put any 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:33.199