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Speaker 1: I'm gonna create more waste because I'm worried some yucko

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Speaker 1: stuck is butter type in the catch him before I

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Speaker 1: got there to order my pork roll sandwich. It's so

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Speaker 1: awesome when one or both of your clients is leaning

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Speaker 1: so far to one side of the boat that one

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Speaker 1: of your oars will not touch the water. You're doing

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Speaker 1: line class tractors to try to make a big name

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Speaker 1: for yourself, scarbage. I didn't get the stream name. Can

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Speaker 1: you tell me the stream name? The stream? Good morning,

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Speaker 1: degenerate anglers, Welcome to Bend, the podcast that thinks your

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Speaker 1: ability to make interesting conversation in the boat and always

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Speaker 1: show up on time matters more than your proficiency with

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Speaker 1: a rod or the size of your tackle box. I'm

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Speaker 1: Joe Surmelli A Miles nultyon. Amen to that man. I

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Speaker 1: will I'll take an interesting fishing buddy over and experienced one.

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Speaker 1: Every single right, to be clear, To be clear, I'm

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Speaker 1: not advocating ignorance. Right. If we've been fishing together for

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Speaker 1: like five years and you haven't bothered to learn how

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Speaker 1: to tie on a leader or back up a trailer,

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Speaker 1: then you're just lazy or not. Actually that interested in fishing,

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Speaker 1: in which case that strong chance I wouldn't, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: be fishing with you for five years, like I would

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Speaker 1: have given up on you a lot sooner than five years.

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Speaker 1: But the argument I'm a big sake of the argument

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Speaker 1: guy exactly. So I gotta say that part of what

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Speaker 1: I love about my job I always have is that

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Speaker 1: I've gotten fish with many different people and get exposed

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Speaker 1: to just tons of different approaches in different places, different

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Speaker 1: rigs and techniques. Um. But the flip side of that

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Speaker 1: diverse fishing experience is that I'm constantly shown how little

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Speaker 1: I actually know. You know what I mean, Like, I'm

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Speaker 1: I've never been afraid to suck at a particular kind

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Speaker 1: of fishing, so long as at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: I've learned something, whether I could be a new nod

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Speaker 1: or new rig or even just the habits of fish

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Speaker 1: that maybe I don't target very often. So I feel

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Speaker 1: like very well versed in a broad sense. But you

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Speaker 1: get away from what you do and it's it's very

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Speaker 1: shocking how little you actually know. Oh yeah, and you

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Speaker 1: only figure that out by going and doing new things, right,

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Speaker 1: Like the most recent example I have is fishing with

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Speaker 1: you for shad. I've never seen a shad before in

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Speaker 1: my life, and trying to figure out how to work

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Speaker 1: those shad darts and like figure out the current and

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Speaker 1: all the different things that you showed me was was

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Speaker 1: a nice moment of realization, like I can figure all

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Speaker 1: this stuff out. I can do it, but I don't

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Speaker 1: know it, And had I been dropped there on my own,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't have been able to Like I I I

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Speaker 1: think one of the things that I have learned the

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Speaker 1: more fishing I've done in the more places I've learned

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Speaker 1: that I just I suck at a lot of kinds

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Speaker 1: of fishing. I'm I'm I'm a pretty good learner, but

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Speaker 1: there are only certain things that I'm truly good at.

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Speaker 1: And I'm hoping that with this particular episode that we've

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Speaker 1: laid out that we maybe I don't know, I hope

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Speaker 1: we encourage a few folks to feel comfortable sucking a

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Speaker 1: little bit, like I hope by us stepping out and

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Speaker 1: saying like, hey, we suck at a lot of stuff

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Speaker 1: when it comes to fishing, and that's okay. I hope

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Speaker 1: other people will take a q and be willing to

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Speaker 1: do that. But I am I'm slightly hesitant about this

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Speaker 1: week's theme. I gotta say, are you really a little

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Speaker 1: like I'm not losing sleep? This isn't It's not the

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Speaker 1: main thing that's keeping me up. But I'm just truly

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Speaker 1: and I think you get this. I'm not sure how

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Speaker 1: this one's gonna land, right, because we're this fair. You

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Speaker 1: say this episode is gonna focus on fly fishing, all right,

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Speaker 1: And we talk about fly fishing on this show all

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Speaker 1: the time, but in the past, Joe and I we've

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Speaker 1: always made a concerted effort to make sure that we

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Speaker 1: talk about something else too. We get some conventional stuff

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Speaker 1: in there, we got some ice, we get we've never

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Speaker 1: gone straight fly before. No, No, that's true. And I

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Speaker 1: think what Miles is getting at is that we have

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Speaker 1: a we have a pretty broad mix of anglers right

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Speaker 1: who listened to this show. And we say all the

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Speaker 1: time that we welcome everyone here at bent who likes

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Speaker 1: to fish long as you're you're thoughtful and ethical about it.

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Speaker 1: You're not like a dirt bag out there. Um, But

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Speaker 1: we don't we we certainly don't want to alienate anybody,

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Speaker 1: but the fly thing it can be kind of polarizing.

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Speaker 1: We know that some of you are are dedicated fly folks.

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Speaker 1: Some of you dabble with flag gear or at least

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Speaker 1: you know, you're a little bit interested in it. And

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Speaker 1: some of you are either completely unfamiliar or just outright

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Speaker 1: like anti fly. And that's okay. We still we like

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Speaker 1: all of you, that's you know, yeah, And and we

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Speaker 1: hope that at least a couple of people will hear

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Speaker 1: this and and maybe feel a little differently if perhaps

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Speaker 1: you're on the anti side. But the thing is, it's June,

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Speaker 1: and it is and June where I live, Like, all

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Speaker 1: I think about when it comes to June is is

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Speaker 1: rivers just boiling with hatching insects and every fish and

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Speaker 1: every one of those rivers is chowing on those insects.

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Speaker 1: And I have been, you know, when I've been out

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Speaker 1: on the rivers, I have fish dry flies off and

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Speaker 1: on for a few months. But right now, this particularly

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Speaker 1: this week, is like the beginning of the prime time.

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Speaker 1: So in the spirit of that, we were thinking we

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Speaker 1: might spread a little unapologetic love for floating flies and

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Speaker 1: surface feeding trout because it's fun. Yeah. And the thing is,

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Speaker 1: we know there's there's gonna be some of you who

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Speaker 1: are understandably skeptical about this, right. I mean, we look,

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Speaker 1: we work at meat Eater, right, Steve Ronnella didn't build

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Speaker 1: his fan base advocating for dainty dry flies and precious trout.

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Speaker 1: But even even Steve will pick up the long rod

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Speaker 1: from time to time and admit how much goddamn fun

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Speaker 1: it is, right or can be? Um, You know, even

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Speaker 1: if he's not a huge fan of fly fishing culture,

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Speaker 1: that you've seen this, right, I have seen him do

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Speaker 1: it with my own two eyes. That is all true.

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Speaker 1: But I think before we we continue with our attempt

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Speaker 1: at a full throated appeal for wy fly fishing is

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Speaker 1: fun and not necessarily annoying or obnoxious, we do want

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Speaker 1: to remind all of you out there that this show

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Speaker 1: is brought to you by thirteen Fishing. It is, and

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Speaker 1: that's that's a little awkward, for thirteen thirteen doesn't actually

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Speaker 1: make any fly rods, at least not yet. It's not

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Speaker 1: that uh, they don't yet. But even in in the

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Speaker 1: heaviest insect hatch and dry fly fun, I still have

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Speaker 1: an omen black casting rod at the ready in my boat,

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Speaker 1: rigged up with the swim bait or a jerk bait,

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Speaker 1: because here's here's a little tip. Here's a little tip

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Speaker 1: for everybody out there. While the small and medium sized

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Speaker 1: fish in the river are are distracted because they're stuff

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Speaker 1: in their faces on teeny tiny bugs, sometimes like the

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Speaker 1: really big fish take advantage of the smaller fish being distracted.

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Speaker 1: So after I've cast some flies through a pool for

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Speaker 1: a while and and have my fun, I'll usually pick

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Speaker 1: up the short stick and huck some kind of a

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Speaker 1: big bait in there a few times, just to see

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Speaker 1: if if Walter p brown shout or maybe an opportunistic

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Speaker 1: small mouth or pike is feeling a little frisky. I've

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Speaker 1: had that work out well in the past. Absolutely, that's

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Speaker 1: it's it's a great tip. Man and I may not

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Speaker 1: agree about which hand we reel um on a bait

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Speaker 1: caster right, because I'm a I'm a right I'm a

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Speaker 1: right hand retrieved guy all the way, which I and

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Speaker 1: I've been called out for it recently. People are like,

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Speaker 1: why is your your handle on the wrong side. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I didn't switch hands yet when the photo was taken,

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Speaker 1: Damn you, I cast right and real right, I do

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Speaker 1: the switch. But anyway, we do both agree that there's

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Speaker 1: nothing wrong with bringing a a conventional rod on a

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Speaker 1: fly fishing trip. Lord knows I do it all the time,

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Speaker 1: me too, or go you go the other way too.

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Speaker 1: There's another wrong with bringing a fly rod on a

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Speaker 1: conventional trip. That's fine too. And for those of you

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Speaker 1: out there feeling unsure, we're just trying to give you

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Speaker 1: license to go for it. Give it a shot, go

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Speaker 1: for it, just try it out. Getting in the long

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Speaker 1: rud doesn't have to be intimidating, even though some people

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Speaker 1: make it out that way. It's it's not that hard.

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Speaker 1: And going fly fishing it doesn't mean that you like

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Speaker 1: gott to wear a tweed jacket with elbow patches or whatever,

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Speaker 1: like a felt hat, which I think is stupid. And

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Speaker 1: you don't have to extend your ky while drinking a beverage.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to do any of those things. One

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Speaker 1: last point, fishing and fly rod does not make you

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Speaker 1: any less of a degenerate. It's true I do wear

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Speaker 1: the tweet and it felt I choose to do so,

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Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that that you have to My

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Speaker 1: tweets actually getting tight. I need bigger tweet anyway, that

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Speaker 1: was all true, and it's okay to bring a fly

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Speaker 1: rod and not use it or only use it if

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Speaker 1: the situation is right, right, And I think when I

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Speaker 1: fish saltwater, I rarely go inshore saltwater fishing without a

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Speaker 1: fly rod, but I never go with only fly rods.

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Speaker 1: I just don't do that. And if the situation presents

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Speaker 1: itself to get some miuse or stripers on the fly,

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Speaker 1: it's like a total bonus and I might fly fish

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Speaker 1: all day, but I'm never going out there with just

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Speaker 1: that stuff. Right. So, anyway, today we we've kind of

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Speaker 1: assembled a cast of Motley characters, all of whom are

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Speaker 1: both professional fly angers and exactly the kinds of people

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Speaker 1: you just want to sit around a fire and drink

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Speaker 1: whiskey with. They're all they're all legitimately interesting, good folks.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna start things off with our friend Alvin Adot,

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Speaker 1: who we've had on the show many times before, but

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Speaker 1: in case you forgot. Alvin is a former frontman for

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Speaker 1: the Austin based funk band Bad Mother Goose and the

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Speaker 1: Brothers Grimm, who started working in a fly shop during

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Speaker 1: the day to help pay for his rock star lifestyle,

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Speaker 1: and that led him down the guiding path, which is

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Speaker 1: what he's been doing full time now for decades. Alvin's

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Speaker 1: homewater is the Lower Colorado River around Austin, where he

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Speaker 1: just puts a hurting on the large mouth and guadeloup

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Speaker 1: by bass and the white bass and all kinds of

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Speaker 1: other stuff. I've done it with him. It's super fun.

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Speaker 1: But he also guides for red fish down on the coast,

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Speaker 1: and he's spent many many years chasing trout in the Rockies.

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Speaker 1: So yep, he's well rounded. Yep. Bottom line, Yeah, Alvin

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Speaker 1: knows his ship, okay, And today he's here for a

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Speaker 1: Smooth Move segment where we let guides, outfitters, shop workers,

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Speaker 1: and anyone else who makes a living in the fishing

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Speaker 1: industry tell stories about stupid or hilarious things that clients do.

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Speaker 1: But this one is more instructive than most. Yeah, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I mean a lot of times we're just making fun

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Speaker 1: of people, but Alvin actually came with a useful, functional suggestion.

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Speaker 1: Anytime you find yourself fishing out of a small boat,

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Speaker 1: particularly someone else's boat, this is this is going to

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Speaker 1: help you. And I really enjoyed recording this one. I

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Speaker 1: had a good time. I kind of forgot the mic

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Speaker 1: was even on. We were just bullshitting. If you've ever

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Speaker 1: wondered what fishing guides talk about after everyone leaves, it

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Speaker 1: kind of sounds like this, why why This move doesn't

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Speaker 1: really have a name, but it has a solution. It

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Speaker 1: has a you know, there's there's a cure for this move,

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Speaker 1: and the cure is center up, get in the middle

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Speaker 1: of the boat. This is one that just anybody that

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Speaker 1: rows the boat boat pushes the boat. You got to

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Speaker 1: stay in the middle of the boat. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's so awesome when one or both of your

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Speaker 1: clients is leaning so far to one side of the

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Speaker 1: boat that one of your oars will not touch the water.

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Speaker 1: You know, you got that one. It's like digging in

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Speaker 1: and the other ones like catching air because the boat's

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Speaker 1: like on its gunnal. Yeah, So that's a that's a

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Speaker 1: that's a that's that's a constant one. You know, like

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Speaker 1: come on, man in in a In my my jet boat,

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Speaker 1: there's a little logo that's on the on the bench

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Speaker 1: that I have people stand on, and I've been tempted

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Speaker 1: to actually put some rails or something on either side

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Speaker 1: of the logo and be like, if you feel that

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Speaker 1: rail under your foot, you need to take a step

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Speaker 1: in the opposite direction. But it's it's a problem. You

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Speaker 1: could just put down gaffer's tape and like a little

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Speaker 1: like like create a little box, like do not step

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Speaker 1: outside of the tape. I have seriously serious considered that.

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Speaker 1: I just tell him, looks, stay on the logo, look down,

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Speaker 1: and every once in a while, make sure you're on

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Speaker 1: the logo. But see, I can take this a step further, right,

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Speaker 1: because I don't know how many people I've rowed. It

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Speaker 1: just happened not too long ago. The dude was perfectly

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Speaker 1: centered because he had no choice because he was in

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Speaker 1: the leg braces on the boat. But then we'd set

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Speaker 1: up on a dry fly fish and he would cast

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Speaker 1: with so much oomph that like the entire drift boat

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Speaker 1: would be rocking like we were twenty miles off shore.

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Speaker 1: And it's like, dude, I don't understand why you must

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Speaker 1: put so much body energy into laying how to dry

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Speaker 1: fly like there's no need for that. You guys have

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Speaker 1: you have to dealt with that too, Like I don't

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Speaker 1: understand it. Just stay the cat why why It's like, dude,

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Speaker 1: I gotta get that fly out of there. And if

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Speaker 1: I don't put somebody english into it. That thing is

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Speaker 1: not gonna make it that thirty feet to the bank.

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Speaker 1: I know, I'm not gonna do with my arms. I

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Speaker 1: gotta do with my legs rattling around. Drinks are coming

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Speaker 1: out of cup holders. Lay down the atoms, all right, dude.

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Speaker 1: I used to have I used to have this really

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Speaker 1: skinny one of those uh one of those Arkansas trout boats.

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Speaker 1: It was like twenty ft long, but it was super skinny,

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Speaker 1: and that thing would rock from side to side. You know.

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Speaker 1: I had this one guy in particular. You know, it

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Speaker 1: was it was like five to six false cast per presentation,

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Speaker 1: and each one was just like you know, it was

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Speaker 1: like he was trying to knock somebody out with these swings,

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Speaker 1: and the boat would the boat would just rock from

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Speaker 1: side to side so violently that my back would hurt

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day from like me just

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Speaker 1: trying to overcorrect to keep myself upright. Well, I had

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Speaker 1: a client for many, many years. He was a really

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Speaker 1: good client and good guy. But I won't use his

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Speaker 1: real name because I don't have to. I just nicknamed

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Speaker 1: him Captain Morgan. If he would ride in the back

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Speaker 1: of my boat with his foot perched up on the

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Speaker 1: gunnal the entire time, just completely throwing that thing off kilter,

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Speaker 1: so that I was almost at a forty five degree

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Speaker 1: angle rowing down the river all day and I would

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Speaker 1: literally have to say, captain, bring it back to center

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Speaker 1: for me, buddy, at least ten times a day. He

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Speaker 1: always felt sorry, I'm so sorry, but within ten minutes

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Speaker 1: and be right back on the gun. Dude, I've seen it.

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Speaker 1: It's the creep. They can't help it. It's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: guys who know, Like you said, the captain knew he

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Speaker 1: was supposed to stay in the center, but it's just

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Speaker 1: like this weird creep thing. It's magnetic. You gotta put

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Speaker 1: that foot as far away from the other foot as

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Speaker 1: you can. So there you have it, everybody. Hot tip

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Speaker 1: from Alvin to do if you really, really really want

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Speaker 1: to piss off your guide, just keep rocking your body

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Speaker 1: weight from one side to the other all day long. Alvin,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much, man, really appreciate it. Hey, thanks for

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Speaker 1: having me. Man. See now, I really think that something

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Speaker 1: most casual anglers just don't know about or think about.

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Speaker 1: I think the centering your weight in small boats makes

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Speaker 1: such a huge difference, and as we've discussed I have.

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Speaker 1: I owned the mini Cooper of drift boats, as you

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Speaker 1: called it. So having the dude upfront centered in in

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Speaker 1: my boat in particular is extremely important to me. It's like,

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Speaker 1: it's very important because we might all go in okay,

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Speaker 1: it's not just a matter of being tilted, like we

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Speaker 1: might dump the thing. You know. It's one of those

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Speaker 1: things you're right, casual anglers don't think about because they

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Speaker 1: don't have to. I had no idea about any of

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Speaker 1: that until I was the one driving and rowing boats

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Speaker 1: all the time, and because other people's sense of where

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Speaker 1: they're standing has impacted my life so much right like now,

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Speaker 1: it's just habit. I always keep an eye on weight

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Speaker 1: and balance when I'm in someone else's boat. Especially. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like one of those unwritten rules of courtesy that

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Speaker 1: that people no notice. It's just not enough people, unfortunately.

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Speaker 1: And we're gonna keep rolling with this. We're gonna we're

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Speaker 1: gonna keep the theme here and bring you a fly

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Speaker 1: fishing tackle tip that we also think will be equally helpful.

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Speaker 1: Be forewarned, this this one gets a little technical. It's

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Speaker 1: not difficult. This isn't a hard thing to do. It's

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Speaker 1: just kind of specific, so you gotta pay attention. I'm

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Speaker 1: getting hacks coming from inside the city. Hi the flood.

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Speaker 1: So welcome back to tackle hacks. Joining us today our

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Speaker 1: friend and uh Montana slash Washington State guide Kinsley, Scott Kinsley.

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Speaker 1: How are you today? I am doing well. How are

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Speaker 1: you guys? We are We are great. We're gonna be

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Speaker 1: better after this because you are going to uh pull

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Speaker 1: from from your many years of experience guiding, um, and

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Speaker 1: you're gonna give us a tackle hack today, a little

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Speaker 1: tip something, just a little little nugget for anglers to

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Speaker 1: put in their pockets that will make them better on

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Speaker 1: the water. At least that's the plan. Yes, and this

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Speaker 1: one may not be applicable to all trout anglers, but

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Speaker 1: for us here in western Montana, our bread and butter

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Speaker 1: are foam dry flies with droppers the majority of our

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Speaker 1: fishing through the entire season. Really, so my hack today

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Speaker 1: to improve your dry dropper fishing, to make life a

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Speaker 1: lot easier is using a shorter leader. So I run

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Speaker 1: a seven and a half foot leader to my dry fly,

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Speaker 1: and right out of the package, I actually chop off

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Speaker 1: about a foot off the butt section of it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and I'll explain why. So I cut about a foot

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Speaker 1: off of the butt section so that well di loop

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Speaker 1: that comes on a leader out of the factory, I

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Speaker 1: retire a perfection loop. So now we'll say my leader

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Speaker 1: is down to about six and a half feet, so

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Speaker 1: it's a pretty chunky taper. What that allows to do?

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Speaker 1: Our fish here in Montana Western Montana specifically aren't very

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Speaker 1: line shy spooky, especially if you're fishing a bigger bug,

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Speaker 1: right we'll say, like salmon fly golden stone fly season.

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Speaker 1: So with that six and a half foot dry fly leader,

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Speaker 1: that allows me to then throw a much longer dropper.

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Speaker 1: So say I throw a four ft dropper to you know,

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Speaker 1: I have a salmon fly dry and I want to

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Speaker 1: fish up pats below and I want four ft in total.

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Speaker 1: That would cut my entire leader system down to about

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Speaker 1: ten and a half feet, which is pretty manageable. Whereas

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Speaker 1: if you were to keep that seven and a half

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Speaker 1: foot leader right out of the package with then a

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Speaker 1: four ft leader, you're pushing about twelve ft of leader

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Speaker 1: in your cast. So if you can shorten that leader

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Speaker 1: section up, it's still going to overturn your fly, but

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Speaker 1: it's going to really compact things and make it a

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Speaker 1: lot more manageable when casting. I love that. Yeah, that's

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00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:02,959
Speaker 1: a great tip. That makes a lot of sense. My

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Speaker 1: only my only critique of that is a lot of

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Speaker 1: the dudes I fly fish with couldn't do that because

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Speaker 1: if they cut the perfection loop off, they wouldn't know

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Speaker 1: how to tie a new one. YouTube your phone will

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Speaker 1: teach you about seconds exactly. Yes, No, that's a that's

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00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,040
Speaker 1: a great tip. I wish that I had done that

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Speaker 1: when I was when I was guiding, because it would

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Speaker 1: have probably saved me a lot of tangles that I

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Speaker 1: had to pick apart for the next oh forty five

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Speaker 1: minutes or so. So next time you're you're out there

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Speaker 1: throwing big dry droppers, chop off the back end of

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Speaker 1: that leader. See how it works. Let us know how

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Speaker 1: you do. Kinsley, Thanks so much, and uh we'll we

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Speaker 1: look forward to another tackle hack from you soon. Thank you. Guys.

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Speaker 1: See I told you in a podcast many moons ago.

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Speaker 1: I've been saying all along that all you need to

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Speaker 1: catch fish in Montana is a big gass check and

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Speaker 1: that was just confessed Western Montana. She clearly what it is.

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Speaker 1: Do not listen specified Western Montana, and she did that

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Speaker 1: on purpose because she grew up on the Missouri where

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Speaker 1: that's not true. And I don't know why, but the

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00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,360
Speaker 1: trout and western Montana are dumber. I don't know why

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Speaker 1: that is, but I I am going to try this

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Speaker 1: trick out because I haven't had a chance to do

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Speaker 1: it yet, and we're coming to salmon fly in Golden

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Speaker 1: Stone season for any any day now, really, so I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna try this one. But I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about it and this rigging, this tip that she gave,

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Speaker 1: I think it's more broadly applicable than than Kingsley realized.

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Speaker 1: I would suggest that this one's useful for people who

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Speaker 1: are curious about fly fishing but don't live in a

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Speaker 1: place with trout streams. So right the rig she was

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00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,879
Speaker 1: talking about, the big dry fly with the dropper set up,

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00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 1: that is sort of a classic out West Rocky Mountain

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00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 1: trout set up, But I actually use something very similar

390
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Speaker 1: for panfish and bass on lakes. I've adapted that rig

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Speaker 1: for warm water species, and I think that her leader

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00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 1: had would be perfect for that situation. So here's here's

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Speaker 1: my version that i'd suggest you guys trying to likea

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00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:09,320
Speaker 1: do exactly what Kinsley suggests. Chop that leader to make

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00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,639
Speaker 1: it a more magable length. Then to the end of

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00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,160
Speaker 1: it ties something big and buoyant, a small popper fly

397
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 1: or a diver, maybe a cicada, hey maybe, and then

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Speaker 1: tie a three to four foot section of a leader

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Speaker 1: off the bend of the hook, you know, like four

400
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,600
Speaker 1: six pound tests something like that, and then put any

401
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,199
Speaker 1: kind of weighted fly that you like on that. I

402
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,400
Speaker 1: personally I'm a big fan of prince nymps or hair's

403
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 1: ears because they just look a little bit like everything,

404
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 1: and they'll work really well on panfish. Or I'll throw

405
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 1: on like a wooly bugger if I'm after bass. You

406
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 1: pitch that thing up toward a weed line in the lake,

407
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 1: You let it settle, and then give it short strips

408
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 1: with long pauses in between. You'll either get to watch

409
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 1: that floating fly get inhaled, or more likely, the floating

410
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 1: fly will just disappear when a fish eats the bottom fly.

411
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 1: So seriously try out the next time your your lake

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00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,679
Speaker 1: fishing in shallow water along weedlines. I think you'll be

413
00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,399
Speaker 1: impressed with how well it works. Solid tip man and

414
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 1: like a blind side for me has always been stillwater

415
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,920
Speaker 1: trout on the fly, and I've I've done very little

416
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 1: of that, but I actually got to do it many

417
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 1: years ago in Montana on a small lake and it

418
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 1: was the first time I ever threw drys on stillwater

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00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 1: for trout, and dude, it was a blast. I must say, Like,

420
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: it's a totally different game. You you've done it, so

421
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying. It's like these fish are cruising,

422
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,679
Speaker 1: so you're just kind of letting your stuff bob around

423
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 1: out there and like ride the wake and ride the

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00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,959
Speaker 1: ripple and they just come out of nowhere and slurp it.

425
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: You can't really target him like a head in the river.

426
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 1: So much fun, so much fun. But it's it's a

427
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 1: lot of useful information today. I don't know, I don't

428
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 1: know what's wrong with us. So I know we're actually

429
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: we're actually we're actually having we have value today, um,

430
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,120
Speaker 1: and we're gonna keep that going right now, We're gonna

431
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 1: keep our value up as we head into fish News.

432
00:22:55,440 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 1: Fish new sescalated quickly, so I have one shout out

433
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,840
Speaker 1: this week before we get going on news, going out

434
00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 1: to listener Eric Haffman, and this is a response to

435
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:13,119
Speaker 1: our last That's My Bar segment where we wax nostalgic

436
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 1: about ketchup in glass bottles, and Eric totally validated me

437
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 1: on this one. Thank you, Eric. Yeah, okay, but I

438
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 1: have more to say about it, okay. So we talked

439
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,880
Speaker 1: about how you don't see that anymore, and and in that,

440
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 1: in that That's My Bar, I brought up the butter

441
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 1: knife trick where sometimes you start the ketchup in the

442
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 1: glass bottle with a butter knife to stick it in

443
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 1: there and get it going, which you said was a

444
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 1: childish maneuver, a rookie move, and that's fair anyway, Eric

445
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: rode in to say you should never use a butter

446
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 1: knife to start catch up in a glass bottle because,

447
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,159
Speaker 1: according to the servers in a bar near him that

448
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 1: also uses glass catchup bottles, if someone sticks a butter

449
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: knife in the bottle, the bottle is now deemed unsanitary

450
00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:00,200
Speaker 1: and tainted and must be thrown away. Now, I I

451
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,280
Speaker 1: I will admit that I, like many of you, probably

452
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 1: never considered this. Okay, I didn't, and I get I

453
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,399
Speaker 1: admit I didn't. I didn't consider that like that is

454
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: a much stronger argument than my stupid like Oh that's

455
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: for kids. That that was his is like a legitimate reason.

456
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, but I still take issue right now. It

457
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 1: makes now I do, and I'll tell you why. It

458
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 1: makes perfect sense. I get it. But this also feels

459
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 1: to me like one of those things people in the

460
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,760
Speaker 1: eighties and nineties like gave zero shits about. Like they

461
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 1: were smoking sections on airplanes. Children were shooting each other

462
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 1: with BB guns instead of nerve guns. And your dad

463
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 1: would help you build the ramp that would allow you

464
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: to jump the creek on a bike sand's helmet, so

465
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: nobody was worried about a butter knife tainting ketchup. And

466
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,239
Speaker 1: my point is, while the knife and the catchup thing

467
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: isn't wrong, this I don't know. It just feels like

468
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,639
Speaker 1: a very millennial observation to me, you know what I'm saying,

469
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 1: Like there's there's there's more important ship to worry about.

470
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 1: So really, I guess er, thanks thanks for ruining catch

471
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: up in glass bottles the last bastion of Americana, Because

472
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: now it's not slight. It's like going to the doctor.

473
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 1: I don't have cancer if you don't tell me I do,

474
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:14,879
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? So now I will never

475
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: be able to look at a glass catchup bottle and

476
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: go oh man, like, what nasty ass stuck their butternuts?

477
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 1: I think, thanks, I think you're Your anger here is misplaced.

478
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 1: I don't think it's Eric fault. I don't think it's

479
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,360
Speaker 1: a service fault, at least restaurant fault. If you want

480
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 1: to blame someone, you can blame like the health department

481
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: for trying to keep you safe. It's not really Eric's fault.

482
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: It's just like I didn't need to know that. And

483
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: I'm gonna excuse me, do you have a single serf packets?

484
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna create more trash. I'm gonna create more waste

485
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: because I'm worried some yucko stuck is butter knife in

486
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 1: the ketchup before I got there to order my pork

487
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,360
Speaker 1: royal sandwich. Damn it. Anyway, That's that's my shout out

488
00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 1: of the week. You haven't this week? We I think

489
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 1: we got to talk about I think I think we

490
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: have to talk about the elephant in the playlist. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, okay,

491
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: well okay, well we're gonna get to that because, as reminded,

492
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,239
Speaker 1: us is a competition. Miles and I do not know

493
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: which news stories, the other dude is bringing to the

494
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: table and at the end, judgment shall be passed by

495
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 1: the mighty Phil our audio engineering. What Miles is referring

496
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: to UM is that Phil has officially contributed now to

497
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: the Bent Spotify playlists, which many of you guys seem

498
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: to be enjoyed. We can be getting a lot of

499
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: great notes on that. The numbers are ticking up, you're

500
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,399
Speaker 1: you're listening, um, and if you're not rocking out with this,

501
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 1: you can find the link to the playlist in my Instagram. Mile.

502
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: But Miles and I were thinking right that down the line,

503
00:26:40,280 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: maybe we'd start asking show guests time to time to

504
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: recommend a few tracks that will add here and there.

505
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: But it seemed only right that since we we've already

506
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 1: discussed Phil's musical taste, we let him throw down some choices.

507
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 1: And man, can you learn a lot from from having

508
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: somebody create a Spotify playlist for you at Phil. Phil

509
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: was all over the place, right from Wilco to Kanye

510
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: West to Steely Dan. Don't forget heart. There was some

511
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 1: heart in it. It was really it was eclectic and

512
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: I like that, and uh, Miles, so we we whittled

513
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: it down to three selections of pills that are now

514
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: officially in the Bent playlist, the first one being The

515
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: White Stripes Girl, You Have No Faith in Medicine. We

516
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: both agreed on that one. I'm actually a White Stripes fan.

517
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:29,000
Speaker 1: I always liked the White Stripes, and kudos to fill

518
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,400
Speaker 1: He didn't. He didn't select really one hit. They were

519
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,480
Speaker 1: all B sides, you know what I mean. And I

520
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: appreciate that. I like that. Now you chose this was

521
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: your pick. Run the Jewels, Goonies, verse et. I don't

522
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: know anything about Run the Jewels. Oh come on, killer Mike,

523
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: Now you gotta love it anyway. Yes, that's some classic,

524
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 1: classic conscious Atlanta hip hop right there. So okay. So

525
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: finally we went with um, Mexican Wine by Fountains of Wayne.

526
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: That was that was my choice, And I said that

527
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 1: because I don't I don't know, but I mean, you're

528
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: not a Fountains of Wayne guy. But I was a

529
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: fan of their first album. Um. They had a song

530
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: called Sink to the Bottom. I Want to Sing to

531
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 1: the Bottom, and I rocked out to that right when

532
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:11,919
Speaker 1: I was a wee lad. And the first time I

533
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: ever heard it was when they played it live. On

534
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,400
Speaker 1: the Jenny McCarthy show. Do you remember the Jenny McCarthy show,

535
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: sadly I do, yes, it was awful, but that is

536
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: where I I discovered Fountains of Wayne. So anyway, if

537
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 1: you hear those tracks pop up, you now know they

538
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: are from Phil, who, upon being asked to contribute, said,

539
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: and this is a direct fail quote. This is probably

540
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,479
Speaker 1: the least consequential thing I've done at meat Eater, and

541
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: I've never felt more pressure. So pressure, the pressure is now, Phil,

542
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: You've done good. Your songs are in. The pressure is

543
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 1: now on, Miles as it is your leadoff for news

544
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: this week. Hit me alright, Okay, pressure is on. See

545
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: how I do? Uh, my first one is gonna come.

546
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: This comes from my original home state, where the Board

547
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: of Land and Natural Resources is clearly not messing around.

548
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: All right, do not mess around in Hawaii, and you'll

549
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: you'll hear about this will make sense in a second.

550
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: So last month they issued the largest fine in state

551
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: history for an aquatic resource violation. A six hundred and

552
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 1: thirty three thousand, eight hundred and forty dollar fine was

553
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:29,480
Speaker 1: issued to a Heilo man who dumped and poison into

554
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 1: Pa stream in order to kill and collect huge quantities

555
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: of Tahitian prawns for illegal sale. I didn't get the

556
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: stream name. Can you tell me? The stream name is

557
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: the stream? There you go? You got it? Yes, I did.

558
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,080
Speaker 1: Tahitian prows are not native to Hawaii, despite their misleading name.

559
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 1: The species is found throughout East Africa, the Indian Ocean,

560
00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: and Indonesia, and then over into the Marqueses Islands. Hawaii

561
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: state workers introduced to Hitian browns into two streams on

562
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 1: two separate islands, Moluchai and Oahu in nineteen fifty six.

563
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: Fifteen years later, the prawns were found in forty two

564
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 1: different streams on every single Hawaiian island, and though humans

565
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: are responsible for the original introduction, the spread and proliferation

566
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: occurred without any help because after hatching, Tahitian prawn larva

567
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: wash out to see where they spend a month growing

568
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: and molting, and just before reaching maturity, the young prawns

569
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: seek out whatever fresh water source they can find and

570
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: make their way upstream, where they spend the remainder of

571
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: their lives. And this life cycle makes them exceptional colonizers

572
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 1: and that's how they got everywhere. Fascinating so it's not

573
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: like steel had to go to the same stream. They'll

574
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: just find the closest fresh water. They just spread out,

575
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,360
Speaker 1: got you, got you right, and so so they've been

576
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: common residents of most freshwater systems in Hawaii since the seventies,

577
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: and they're they're considered in vase have as they may

578
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: compete with native shrimp and prons, but their impacts have

579
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: not been closely studied, so no one's sure how bad

580
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: of a deal they are. And since they've been around

581
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: for fifty years and everything hasn't collapsed, they kind of

582
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 1: sort of like they're not that bad. But harvest is allowed,

583
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: and the Department of Land Natural Resources has no bag

584
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: limits onto hitian prons. You can take as many as

585
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: you want. Common and legal methods of take include nets, spears,

586
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:31,200
Speaker 1: and spotlights, but dumping a bottle of poison into the

587
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: water and then scooping up all the dead prons as

588
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 1: they float downstream is both illegal and incredibly destructive. Unfortunately,

589
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 1: this practice seems like it's starting to become common, or

590
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: at least common enough to draw significant attention and resources

591
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,960
Speaker 1: from the White Deal at all. Because people like prons

592
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: right like prawns are good exactly, and and you know,

593
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: the legal methods of pron hunting can yield seems like

594
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,280
Speaker 1: from what I can tell, can yield like a big

595
00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,719
Speaker 1: meal in a few hours of collection. You can get

596
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: a company dozen't But poachers can just dump a bottle

597
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: of ant poison the stream and and get like fifty

598
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: to a hundred pounds or more in minutes. And then

599
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: they take those fresh prawns and they sell them on

600
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: the roadside, and they make quick cash. Poisons like that

601
00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 1: kill indiscriminately, and they have long lasting negative impacts. According

602
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 1: to state biologist Troy Sakihara, the illegal and unethical use

603
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: of these pesticides in streams have shown to cause extremely

604
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: damaging and long lasting effects into all aquatic stream animals,

605
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,760
Speaker 1: native and non native. These pesticides are highly toxic to

606
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: all aquatic animals and result in extensive recovery time, particularly

607
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: for native and endemic stream life. Typically, non native and

608
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,960
Speaker 1: invasive species are the first to repopulate these impacted areas. Therefore,

609
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: these types of activities can severely alter the natural biological

610
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 1: conditions and overall health of the stream ecosystem. So real bad,

611
00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,600
Speaker 1: that's what he's saying. Yeah, and beyond decimated the stream life.

612
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: This practice is also dangerous for the people who consume

613
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 1: the poison shellfish. Right like the side of the road,

614
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: it's full of a poison you don't know. So all

615
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: this is to say that cracking down on this practice

616
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 1: has become a high priority for for the Hawaii deal

617
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: in r last July, enforcement officer Edwin Shoshido got an

618
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: anonymous tip about one such incident. Shashido knew that he

619
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: had an opportunity to make an impact, and so he

620
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: spent the next two months building this case. He partnered

621
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: with the Division of Aquatic Resources and the Department Agriculture

622
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: to collect water, soil, and prawn samples, all of which

623
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: tested positive for benethren, a toxin commonly found in commercial

624
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: insect poisons. He tracked down eye witnesses, and like you,

625
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 1: just spent a ton of time on this. He was

626
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 1: ultimately successful in prosecuting the offender, whose actions resulted in

627
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,680
Speaker 1: the death of approximately six thousand, two hundred and fifty

628
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: Tahesian prawns, in addition to who knows how much other

629
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: aquatic wildlife. The guy got find a thousand dollars per

630
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 1: dead prawn, two dollars for unlawful use of poisonous substances,

631
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: plus another eight thousand sixty bucks to pay for the

632
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: overtime the officers Shushido and the other staff put into

633
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: the case. The chair of the Hawaii Board of Natural

634
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,800
Speaker 1: Resources set it's sentencing this very significant fine. Let's illegal

635
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: fishers know that we take these matters very very seriously.

636
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:30,720
Speaker 1: Responsible citizens acting as witnesses and our officers are watching

637
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 1: streams closely, and if you're engaged to these types of activities,

638
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: eventually the law will catch up with you. This kind

639
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: of illegal and extremely horrible fishing behavior collecting prawns and

640
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: streams using poison is unacceptable, and we will enforce it

641
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: at every turn. And I just I wish all poaching

642
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: and wildlife cases were prosecuted this way, right, because so

643
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,080
Speaker 1: often the story ends with the offender like there's this

644
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: whole thing, and then the offender gets a nominal sanction

645
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: or like a little fine, and I think that ends

646
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: up doing far more harm than good because the message

647
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: from those cases it's not that big a deal. Breaking

648
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 1: fish and wildlife laws is really not that big a deal,

649
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: so people keep doing it. If if, on the other hand,

650
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,280
Speaker 1: conservation officers are allowed and encouraged to prioritize catching offenders

651
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: and hit them with big fines like this that also

652
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: include the cost of overtime that all the people who

653
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: caught them put into it. I think that might actually

654
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 1: make people think twice. So I'm I'm shouting out. I'm

655
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: applauding Hawaii deal in our and especially officers Shashido for

656
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: for this one. I think I think there's a job

657
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,720
Speaker 1: really well done, dude. I think I think it's amazing.

658
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: And man, there's there's gonna be a lot of connections

659
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 1: between stories today. We've done some some some things in

660
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: similar veins, and I completely agree. The thing is like,

661
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: the fine is what it is. Dude's got to pay it.

662
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: And I mean, you know, as fin as you deal

663
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: with people in these cases that don't have a ton

664
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: of money, and it's like, well, you can you can

665
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: lay that fine on a guy. That doesn't mean that

666
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: the state's canna get all that money out of it.

667
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: That's Neil, and you know, and there's actually similarities here

668
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 1: on the mainland. I feel like we've talked about it

669
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 1: in this show at one point, but I had a

670
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 1: good buddy who is a veteran guide on the Salmon

671
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 1: river out here, and back in the Wild West days

672
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 1: of poaching, that wasn't uncommon to have these salmon run

673
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,800
Speaker 1: up these little side trips and dude would dump a

674
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 1: ten gallon bucket of bleach in and the other dude

675
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,320
Speaker 1: would stand at the bottom with a pitchfork. That happened

676
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: like in New York State. Yeah, yeah, like that was

677
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 1: a thing that people used to do. So the idea

678
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 1: of poisoning a run like that to get what you

679
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: need is it happens elsewhere and that's the same deal.

680
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: So then you're selling these salmon that like smell like

681
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: bleach and their gills are white, and it's like, who

682
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: wants to freaking eat that? I will say, though I know,

683
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: I know those prawns are are invasive, but I've seen

684
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: stuff on TV, like the legit guys that do it

685
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 1: with the flashlights and the real small spear guns like

686
00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 1: a little like needle Dart. I think it's cool as hell,

687
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:56,879
Speaker 1: Like I would like I would like to try that.

688
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 1: The only reason I haven't done it is because I

689
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: grew up on a wah who and I know that

690
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 1: there are clean streams on a wall who where you

691
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 1: can do this and feel comfortable about it. I don't

692
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,920
Speaker 1: know which ones they are, like like the streams I

693
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 1: grew up, and you don't want to eat out of those,

694
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 1: right right? And that's the other thing with all this poisoning.

695
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 1: It's like, now, if you want to do it on

696
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 1: the up and up, how do you know which one

697
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 1: hasn't been ant poisoned to death? You know, well, if

698
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,400
Speaker 1: there are bronze living in it, you're probably pretty safe.

699
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,800
Speaker 1: From what I like. Everything I read, it just wipes

700
00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,960
Speaker 1: them out. Yeah. Well, you know the other thing too.

701
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: I appreciate ingenuity in terms of like getting legal meals

702
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 1: or harvesting more crabs or whatever it may be. But

703
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: is this the only way you would think? Like it

704
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: wasn't something? Why isn't one of the old timers like

705
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: hooked up a car battery and shocked him or something like?

706
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 1: Can't we figure something out like that? We have to

707
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: poison the entire stream, Like my grandpa used to dig

708
00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: worms with a car battery and two electrodes, stick them

709
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,680
Speaker 1: in the ground, buzz them up. Upcome the worms. I'm like,

710
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: that's ingenuity, you know what I mean. We're not harming anything. Yeah, anyway,

711
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: it's I'm with you. I think it's a really cool

712
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 1: way of vesting food. And uh, next time I on

713
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 1: the neighbor island with cleaner water, I'm definitely gonna do

714
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,439
Speaker 1: this because I think that'd be a lot of fun.

715
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,759
Speaker 1: I think, I think it looks awesome. And you've given

716
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: me the simplest transition because we're going from invasives too invasives.

717
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: This is a cool story, though though it's a bit

718
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: it's a bit complex. I'm gonna do my best to

719
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: break it down in orderly fashion here. But it comes

720
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:24,480
Speaker 1: from Hakai magazine, which is great. That's a really good magazine.

721
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: We highly recommend it. Excellent writing. Uh. And it centers

722
00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: around the blood worm trade. And I realized that blood

723
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 1: worms are not exactly a ubiquitous bait. They're actually a

724
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: very niche bait used in salt water. But if you're

725
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: a Northeasterner like me from the mid Atlantic, you probably

726
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,280
Speaker 1: understand their importance. Um. So blood worms are these big,

727
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: ugly meannass seaworms. They can be really long, they can

728
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 1: be a foot long. They have legs that run down

729
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: the side. It looks like like like a blood red fringe. Um.

730
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: And while you can use them for a wide variety

731
00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: of saltwater species. They are most commonly used at least

732
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 1: where I live, for stripers and white perch, particularly in

733
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,439
Speaker 1: the early season when the resident massard just waking up

734
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:06,720
Speaker 1: because it's we have these fish in the back bays.

735
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,919
Speaker 1: They're not chasing bait all over. The water is cold,

736
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,680
Speaker 1: so they feed on the sand flats and the mud flats,

737
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: and blood worms are a choice bait, very important. Now.

738
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:18,920
Speaker 1: These worms are primarily harvested in Maine and the Canadian Maritimes,

739
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 1: and believe it or not, they are one of Maine's

740
00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: most valuable commercial fisheries. And according to this story, yes,

741
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:28,800
Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, the worm trade in Maine was valued

742
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: at north of six million dollars total um. And what's

743
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: so cool about it is the deep tradition tied to

744
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,920
Speaker 1: this worm harvest. They have to be dug by hand.

745
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: You cannot use automated machinery. Right. Um, you still can't

746
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: dig for these worms on Sundays in Maine. And while

747
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: this number has shrunk, it's estimated that there's still about

748
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: seven and fifty miners that dig worms at least part

749
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: time for supplemental income and nowadays, the going rate for

750
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:03,280
Speaker 1: like a really choice worm is about sixty cents per worm.

751
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,359
Speaker 1: Um Now, because these live worms, you know, don't live

752
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: super long, this trade is all based around speed to market.

753
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: Worms are dug, packed and overnighted in most cases to

754
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: bait shops across the country, which is why a dozen

755
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: of the damn things is so expensive. They are an

756
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: insanely expensive bait. Especially, Oh man, you're gonna put me

757
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,439
Speaker 1: on the spot. It's been so long since i've it's

758
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 1: it's more than ten bucks a dozen, maybe even up

759
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: around fifteen bucks a dozen. I mean, it would have

760
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 1: to be if if the diggers are getting sixty cents,

761
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: and then they've got to get overnighted, and their story

762
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: exactly right if you put all those factors together. Plus

763
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,800
Speaker 1: now the story is saying supply and demand because of

764
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 1: of you know, the pandemic, pushing more people to fish,

765
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,160
Speaker 1: they can't keep up. And I know there was a

766
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: blood worm shortage around here this past spring. Um. You know,

767
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 1: you can only dig so many by hand. And Tricky

768
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:02,920
Speaker 1: told I only ever used them when I knew they'd

769
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,560
Speaker 1: be critical, right, like, we're doing this, we need to

770
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: have blood worms or we're not going to be successful.

771
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 1: It's not something I've I've used much. You can catch

772
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 1: fluke on them sea bass, but they're just so damn

773
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 1: expensive that um, I've rarely ever done that. Now, when

774
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,400
Speaker 1: you buy these worms, they come packed in seaweed and

775
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: it's a relatively common brown algae simply called wormweed. And

776
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,880
Speaker 1: to cut to the chase here, right, Amy Fowler, a

777
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 1: marine biologist with the Smithsonian Environmental Research Center, has been

778
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: studying this worm weed for for years. This started in

779
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 1: two thousand eleven. She's taken samples from bait shops, from suppliers,

780
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: and it turns out that it's a major contributor to

781
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,680
Speaker 1: introducing invasive species to other bodies of water. And this

782
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: worm weed that these worms come packed and is filled

783
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:53,440
Speaker 1: with micro organisms, and the most critical are periwinkle snails

784
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: and green crabs um and she believes those particular species

785
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: ended up in several places that they should not be

786
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: as a direct result of the bait trade. Furthermore, the

787
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,919
Speaker 1: worm weed itself can take hold and has done so

788
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: in areas of both chest Peak and San Francisco Bay

789
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,800
Speaker 1: because these main worms are shipped all the way across

790
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: the country. Right, Because what happens. Right, you finished with

791
00:42:17,239 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: your worms. It's seaweed you're throwing in the water. Right.

792
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 1: You don't think you don't think anything of it. Um. Now,

793
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: I could go on and on about the invasives within

794
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 1: the worm weed, but that's really not the most interesting

795
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:30,319
Speaker 1: part of the story. What's fascinating is that it's been

796
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: proven that shipping blood worms in worm weed provides no benefit.

797
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 1: It doesn't make them live longer. They don't eat it, right,

798
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: it just acts like this natural moist packing peanut material. Um.

799
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: But distributors have skipped the weed in overnight shipments to

800
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 1: Europe just to reduce weight and just letting the worms

801
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,720
Speaker 1: roll around and styre from containers, and they survived just fine.

802
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 1: Though it's kind of a daylight and a buck short.

803
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 1: California outlawed the importation of worm weed, and guess what

804
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: the worms headed. They are now packed in wet cardboard

805
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 1: strips or newspaper and they do just fine. So it

806
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: seems the simple solution is just stop packing the worms

807
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,919
Speaker 1: in worm weed, Except the harvesting of the weed goes

808
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 1: hand in hand with the traditional style of blood worm

809
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: harvesting in Maine. Like one guy who just harvest worm

810
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: weed in this story says he gets about seven bucks

811
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 1: a bag and can make eight bucks on a good

812
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: low tide. Just collecting the weed for the worms to

813
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 1: be packed in right, doesn't actually serve any benefit. It

814
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,520
Speaker 1: serves no benefit, it doesn't keep it, it serves really

815
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: no benefit. So, um, a lot of the bait distributors

816
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: in Maine are basically saying like that, Like Fowler is

817
00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 1: passing on this information. She's talking to these guys, and

818
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,239
Speaker 1: a lot of them are just basically saying like, yeah, sorry,

819
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 1: this is how we've been doing it for decades, and UM,

820
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna risk putting anyone out of work, meaning

821
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 1: the weed harvesters, by changing my ways. So even though

822
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,640
Speaker 1: Fowler suggests that while it may hurt the finances of

823
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: a select group of manners, these weed collectors, the bait distributors,

824
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,760
Speaker 1: would actually save money in the long run by switching

825
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: to a different packing material or skipping it all together.

826
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:14,240
Speaker 1: She also says if you simply rinsed all the worm

827
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: weed in fresh water before packing, it would get rid

828
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 1: of a lot of these Cleinger honors. But there's there's

829
00:44:20,239 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: one distributor interview in the piece that says, yeah, rinsing

830
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: all the weed that's just too onerous, time consuming, and

831
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 1: contends and contends that the solution is educating anglers that

832
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: buy worms not to discard the worm weed in the water,

833
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: so to put the full responsibility on the buyer of

834
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: the blood worm. Oh, I could not disagree with that more. Yeah.

835
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,879
Speaker 1: To me, it's it's plans and and and like I said,

836
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:50,359
Speaker 1: I've used blood worms. It's not something I buy a

837
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,240
Speaker 1: ton of. But as far as long as I can remember,

838
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,279
Speaker 1: you buy blood worms. They come in seaweed. Never thought

839
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: anything of it. I threw that seaweed in the water,

840
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: never gave it a thought. It's it's organic. Um. So

841
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:04,920
Speaker 1: you know, Fowler was even saying in this piece, like

842
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:07,200
Speaker 1: a lot of times when you're trying to pinpoint where

843
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 1: certain invases are coming from, it takes so long to

844
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 1: find the source, Like there's so much work put into

845
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 1: the exact way that this thing got from here to here.

846
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 1: And she's like this one's playing his day, like we

847
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,719
Speaker 1: could track it, Like these are all places that have

848
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,400
Speaker 1: this high use of blood worms, and the blood worms

849
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 1: are packed in this seaweed that gets discarded. But it

850
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 1: just sounds like tradition is too strong. Nobody, nobody wants

851
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 1: to listen. It's just like now we're just gonna We're

852
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,440
Speaker 1: gonna do that. That's what we do. Oh that is

853
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 1: that is maddening. I wish that everyone could see my

854
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,840
Speaker 1: face right now because it's just like scrunched up frustration.

855
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: Because this is not a hard but as you were saying,

856
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: this is not a hard problems, it's not it's not

857
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: and and there is there is one, Like, you know,

858
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: I sort of see a parallel, believe it or not.

859
00:45:53,480 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: You know, you have these these old timy worm harvesting

860
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 1: operations that have worked with you know, this guy and

861
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: that guy to collect all their weed for so long.

862
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 1: I sort of see a parallel. I think New Jersey

863
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: and Oregon in the last two states where it's um

864
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,160
Speaker 1: illegal to pump your own gas, an attendant has to

865
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 1: do that for you, and like for many many years,

866
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: it's like, can we just like save money and like

867
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: we are happy to pump our own gas. But it's like, yeah,

868
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,240
Speaker 1: but just simply killing that would put so many people

869
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: out of work. So I sort of see the loyalty

870
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: in the tradition there and not wanting their buddies and

871
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: the people they've worked with forever to be out of

872
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 1: a weed harvesting job to come. Yeah, dude, I don't.

873
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: I don't that that analogy doesn't work for me because

874
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 1: there is no downside other than a slightly higher cost

875
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: per gallant fuel. This one you're talking about. We're transporting

876
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 1: and basis species all over the country in the world,

877
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: and all we have to do is stop doing this.

878
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:49,520
Speaker 1: It confers zero benefit other than a job like that.

879
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 1: To me is the definition of of having of creating

880
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: a job that is detrimental and has no value. And

881
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to hate on the weed harvesters out there.

882
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:03,799
Speaker 1: This is not a personal attack at any of you.

883
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: But I think maybe you want to start getting into

884
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 1: digging worms. Perhaps that might be the way that you

885
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: could transition. Uh. Still still similar, similar activity, it seems.

886
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: And it's did I tell you what? It is a

887
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 1: nasty job, man. This is like a low tide window.

888
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: You are, you know, balls deep and muck like. It

889
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 1: is hard work. I believe it's it's it's pretty cool.

890
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 1: It's pretty cool. Here here's the other thing I'm gonna say,

891
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,160
Speaker 1: what by by putting this on let's say that the

892
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: the onus is on anglers, right, Well, that's not actually

893
00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:41,359
Speaker 1: gonna fall on anglers because the way, the only way

894
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: this really works is if now every other state where

895
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 1: blood worms are used for fishing has to create a

896
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: regulation whereby if you have blood worm weed, you cannot

897
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: dispose of it. And that's just another thing that wardens

898
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: have to now use their time looking out for which

899
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: they don't have the time of the resources do and

900
00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: they don't want to do. And that that to me

901
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: is obnoxious when it could have been handled at the source.

902
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: And and that that helps me kind of like continue

903
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: my theme of the week, which is which is calling

904
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:17,239
Speaker 1: out game and wildlife enforcement officers in a positive light,

905
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,839
Speaker 1: because you know, these these are men and women who

906
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:25,280
Speaker 1: take a lot of ship, oftentimes unfairly, and they rarely

907
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 1: get credit for all the good work that they do. Right, Like,

908
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: they don't want to police your worm weed. They don't

909
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 1: want to do that, but they'll have to, perhaps even

910
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: though it could have been solved elsewhere in the supply chain.

911
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:41,160
Speaker 1: Right And and I'm gonna start this one. This is

912
00:48:41,280 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: the actual story here is short and kind of dumb,

913
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 1: but I like it anyway. But I'm gonna start it

914
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 1: off with with the story of my own. Uh So,

915
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 1: the first time my wife and I took our son

916
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 1: out on our boat, it was a beautiful June weekend

917
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. The kid was seven months old.

918
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 1: We met up with some friends and their kids. We

919
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: all launch our boat is at at this busy river

920
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,319
Speaker 1: access point in the Madison and our friends were out

921
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: of head just a little bit and I just eased

922
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:10,960
Speaker 1: our sixteen foot drift boat out of the current when

923
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:13,400
Speaker 1: I saw Warden waving me back over to the bank,

924
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: and you know, complied immediately as I always do, and

925
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: I was not concerned, right, I've I've talked lots of words.

926
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 1: I've been checked many times. I pulled up next to

927
00:49:22,760 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 1: guy like I got all my paperwork, I got all

928
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 1: my safety equipment. I'm I'm legit, no problem. What do

929
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: you what do you need to see? But then he

930
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 1: looks at me and he says, uh, sir, do you

931
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,360
Speaker 1: have a life jacket for that child? And I was

932
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: just totally thrown because I didn't the kids. I mean,

933
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: the kid wasn't even crawling yet, so the idea of

934
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,439
Speaker 1: him needing a life jacket, it simply hadn't crossed my mind,

935
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: which is stupid, because I knew the law, right, Like

936
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: I knew that all kids twelve and under half to

937
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: wear a PFD at all times. I had to do

938
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 1: that when I was guiding, but I just I never

939
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 1: thought about it with an infant who couldn't get away.

940
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 1: I just didn't thy right. So, like I mean, blame it.

941
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: Put him on the bat he's not going anywhere. Fine,

942
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: I blame it on a year and a half of

943
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 1: sleep deparation, whatever. But I was utterly unprepared. And and

944
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,319
Speaker 1: it be in this beautiful weekend day, right, the ramp

945
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 1: is super crowded, there are people everywhere, and the officer

946
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: was understanding, but like he kind of just he's like

947
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 1: he was explained, my god, I'm sorry, man, but like

948
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:27,360
Speaker 1: I have to. I have to pay attention to this.

949
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:29,759
Speaker 1: I am. It's something that we're focusing on this year,

950
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 1: particularly this river, is making sure kids are safe because

951
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,719
Speaker 1: we've had some issues and which I can't right. So

952
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: he's like I said, I can't. I can't just look

953
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 1: the other way on this. And what he could have

954
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:44,720
Speaker 1: done was he could have told us, all right, I'm sorry,

955
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 1: but you gotta you're you guys are out of here.

956
00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: You don't have a life jack for that kid, pull

957
00:50:48,239 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: the boat jack up, put it on the trailer, which

958
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: would have been a really, really lame way to end

959
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 1: my son's first ever float trip. It would have been

960
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 1: a real disappointing day and I would have been upset,

961
00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: my wife would have everybody was upset. But the guy

962
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,319
Speaker 1: he didn't gotten over right though. If nothing else, he

963
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 1: would have moved right on to other things. But but

964
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: that's not what he did, and that's where I your son.

965
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: He wouldn't have remembered. No, he wouldn't have cared at all.

966
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: It would have been like feed me and let me

967
00:51:13,080 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 1: sleep and scream at you. Um. But the the officer

968
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,840
Speaker 1: didn't do that right. So instead he went back to

969
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:22,240
Speaker 1: his truck and he pulled out an infant life jacket

970
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:24,520
Speaker 1: of his own and loaned it to my son so

971
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:28,040
Speaker 1: that we could legally complete our float. I'll say he did.

972
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,480
Speaker 1: He did also issue me a citation, but I chalk

973
00:51:30,560 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 1: that up to the price of stupidity on my part,

974
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,879
Speaker 1: like I deserved that. The point is that like these

975
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: aren't the stories that usually get told, right, the ones

976
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 1: where wildlife officers go out of their way to help

977
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 1: people are it's usually hear the other ones, And in

978
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: this case, I was breaking the law, and that dude

979
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 1: had every right to just pull us off the river

980
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 1: and go about his day, but he chose to loan

981
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:53,279
Speaker 1: some of his personal property so that we could we

982
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:55,239
Speaker 1: could have fun and we could do what we're doing.

983
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what he did. And so that I

984
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 1: thought of that because I just read this other story

985
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: from the local news on Lake Tuscaloosa in Alabama from

986
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: last weekend. Tyler Cunningham took his girlfriend Mackenzie Boyd out

987
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,719
Speaker 1: on his bass boat and he told her that he

988
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:15,280
Speaker 1: wanted to sneak in a little bit of fishing before

989
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 1: they had to head out to a friend's house for

990
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:18,840
Speaker 1: a dinner party. So they hit the water dress in

991
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: their Sunday bass like fully ducked out to go bass fishing. Okay,

992
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: all of a sudden Mill Lake, Cunningham cuts the outboard,

993
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: gets down on one knee, pulls out a rigg and

994
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 1: proposes to Boyd, who's like totally surprised. I love I

995
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 1: love your response. There. I give the dude credit because

996
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: I actually pulled off the surprise part and and you

997
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:43,319
Speaker 1: know she accepts everybody's happy blah blah blah. It's a

998
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:46,879
Speaker 1: touching moment, Sir Mellie. But then on the way back

999
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:51,239
Speaker 1: to the ramp, the couple gets detained by State Wildlife

1000
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 1: officers because they don't have life jackets or a fire

1001
00:52:55,160 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: stigmature on board. Now, similarly, by law, the off could

1002
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,080
Speaker 1: have issued a couple of citations and that would have

1003
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: been the end of this story. But they didn't. They

1004
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:07,920
Speaker 1: did it differently. They they let the couple off of

1005
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:09,400
Speaker 1: the warning, which I think is a nice thing to

1006
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 1: do for a young couple of probably broke I know

1007
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:14,840
Speaker 1: I was a young couple. But then they also used

1008
00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: this event as an opportunity to do a little pr work,

1009
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: and this is what I think was pretty smart. The

1010
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: officers took photos with the couple and then they put

1011
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 1: up a Facebook post that I gotta say it's kind

1012
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 1: of clever. And so here here's how it read. Quote

1013
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 1: quite an eventful boat ride on Lake Tuscaloosa from Mackenzie L. Boyd,

1014
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:35,479
Speaker 1: who was first detained with a request for her hand

1015
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 1: in marriage, and then once again with requests for licenses

1016
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:43,319
Speaker 1: and registration. Officers Stanley and Halloway congratulated Mackenzie and her

1017
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 1: bow Tyler Cunningham, and remind them that the secret to

1018
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: a long and successful life together includes life jackets and

1019
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:55,360
Speaker 1: accessible fire extinguishers. Okay, I I know this is this

1020
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 1: is kind of a cheesy story, and I get now.

1021
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:00,080
Speaker 1: I have something to say. If you don't say that,

1022
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: I want to give both the officers involved and the

1023
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: Alabama Wildlife and Freshwater Fisheries Division a lot of credit

1024
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:08,439
Speaker 1: for how they handled this, because, as we've already said,

1025
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 1: as I've mentioned, wardens generally have difficult, thankless jobs, and

1026
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:14,880
Speaker 1: while they are always exceptions, the vast majority of the

1027
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 1: wardens that I've ever dealt with have been courteous and

1028
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: polite and professional. And you you may get it. Yes,

1029
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: you may get annoyed at getting checked or or getting

1030
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 1: a citation for doing something accidental or stupid. I get that,

1031
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:29,360
Speaker 1: But you gotta remember that these are men and women

1032
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 1: their primary responsibilities to protect the fish and wildlife that

1033
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: we all really care about. And think about the sum total,

1034
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:38,799
Speaker 1: think about the good versus harm, and think about how

1035
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,920
Speaker 1: often like they have to deal with people being jerks

1036
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 1: to them. Yes, and and and then take a step

1037
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: back and recognize that when they have these moments to

1038
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: like throw some levity in the situation, I think that

1039
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,839
Speaker 1: it is incredibly valuable and I love when they do it,

1040
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:59,279
Speaker 1: and and I thought that was very well handled. Here's

1041
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 1: what I will say, which which just really goes back

1042
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:05,800
Speaker 1: to the to the couple, right. I don't know, dude,

1043
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 1: I've had a lot of boats. I have boats now.

1044
00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 1: The life jackets are always in the boat, like, they

1045
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,719
Speaker 1: don't ever come out of the boat. The fire extinguisher

1046
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 1: doesn't come out of the everything is always in the boat. Like.

1047
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 1: That's like common sense to me. So when I hear

1048
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 1: people on larger boats that get hit for having no

1049
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,040
Speaker 1: life jacket, like you, what do you take your life

1050
00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:32,719
Speaker 1: jackets on and off the boat? Everything? Even if you

1051
00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:35,880
Speaker 1: wear right, Like, even if you wear the suspenders type,

1052
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:40,560
Speaker 1: the comfortable ones, I still have the shitty orange ones

1053
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:44,120
Speaker 1: jammed in there to be up to code in case

1054
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 1: I forget the suspenders. So you're like, you're always legal.

1055
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 1: I don't understand that. I don't understand that either, the

1056
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:56,640
Speaker 1: same on my boat. I'm with you. Well, so I'm

1057
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:00,760
Speaker 1: gonna close here with one that um no no levity

1058
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 1: from fish and game officials was warranted for this one

1059
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 1: because it's it's pretty ugly and there's really not a

1060
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,240
Speaker 1: great punchline other than like we're gonna crunch some numbers

1061
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 1: here and you're gonna be like what right. So this

1062
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,879
Speaker 1: one comes from Michigan's m live dot com headline two

1063
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:18,320
Speaker 1: Michigan men find eight point five thousand dollars for poaching

1064
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:23,200
Speaker 1: hundreds of walleye, pan fish and perch. Right now, it's

1065
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:27,799
Speaker 1: it's not that difficult to dig up approaching story. We

1066
00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:30,560
Speaker 1: are I mean, like, we're all connected here, we are run,

1067
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,080
Speaker 1: we are locked in. Um. I was gonna say, it's

1068
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:34,719
Speaker 1: not really that hard to find a poaching story on

1069
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,799
Speaker 1: the local outdoor police blotterer somewhere, you know what I mean,

1070
00:56:37,840 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 1: Like there's always somebody doing something. But this one's pretty

1071
00:56:41,120 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 1: over the top. So this is from the story in

1072
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: a single day in March, Stanley garb As Jr. Sixty

1073
00:56:46,040 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 1: eight years old of Caseville and Bruce Warren, fifty three,

1074
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:52,000
Speaker 1: of Pigeon. We're allegedly over the perch daily catch limit

1075
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: by sixty Fish. Authorities also found hundreds more walleye, pan

1076
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:59,839
Speaker 1: fish and perch in garbage is freezer. The case began

1077
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:01,960
Speaker 1: in March from the Department of Natural Resources received a

1078
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:05,359
Speaker 1: tip on its report all poaching hotlines, So there you go.

1079
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:07,359
Speaker 1: If you ever scoffed at those and like, don't think

1080
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 1: you should call call okay, because here's here's an example

1081
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:13,759
Speaker 1: of where that worked. UM Advising that Garbas was at

1082
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,959
Speaker 1: his residence in possession of a few hundred perch, dn

1083
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,919
Speaker 1: R Conservation Officer josh Wright proceeded to the home and

1084
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:23,320
Speaker 1: called the Huron County Sheriff's office for assistance. Deputy Joshua

1085
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,400
Speaker 1: Loss arrived first and confirmed that there was quote a

1086
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: lot end quote of perch being fall When Right arrived,

1087
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 1: he received permission to count the fish that had been

1088
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 1: caught that day, and we're being processed by Garbage and Warren.

1089
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: He counted one and seventy. They were each over the

1090
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 1: day by sixty perch. Right then found an additional eighty

1091
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 1: five bags of frozen fish in four freezers at Garbage's residents.

1092
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 1: The filets were fought and counted. Once everything was falled

1093
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:57,240
Speaker 1: and counted, it turned out dude was over his possession

1094
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:01,840
Speaker 1: limit by thirty five walleye two under and forty pan

1095
00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 1: fish and three hundred and ninete perch, right, God do

1096
00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:13,160
Speaker 1: I mean? So this is my assessment short story again,

1097
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 1: Like there's there's no quotes from these guys or anything. Um.

1098
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 1: But on top of their fine, the combined fine of

1099
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,919
Speaker 1: eight point five k um, naturally, these men also face

1100
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 1: the loss of their licenses you know, forever. Um. But

1101
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:28,520
Speaker 1: I'm I'm gonna go out on a limb here and

1102
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: say that, you know, similar to my worry about the

1103
00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,200
Speaker 1: prawn deal, the loss of a fishing license will will

1104
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: not necessarily stop these guys from fishing, because like, these

1105
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 1: violations to me are so egregious. I'm guessing that these

1106
00:58:43,720 --> 00:58:46,680
Speaker 1: two old timers basically give zero ships. Like if you're

1107
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 1: if you're one or two over the limit and try

1108
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 1: to be sneaky and you got caught, that's one thing.

1109
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:54,360
Speaker 1: But if you're willing to go three perch over the limit,

1110
00:58:54,960 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 1: I'm I'm betting you don't actually care about the rules.

1111
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: You have not read the annual compendium, you probably never will,

1112
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 1: And I don't really think if like you can't get

1113
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 1: a license, you're not going to go out on the

1114
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 1: lake at night or or do what you're gonna do.

1115
00:59:07,280 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 1: Just my assessment, great bust like, good on them for

1116
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,240
Speaker 1: for busting this one. Um and again similar to the

1117
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:17,360
Speaker 1: Hawaii story. I mean, that's a hefty fine. They're they're

1118
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 1: really trying to get after these dudes. But I always

1119
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,880
Speaker 1: question will it really matter in the end. I mean

1120
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 1: it is. It is a hefty fine, but not compared

1121
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:29,640
Speaker 1: to the six and thirty thousand dollars. But if if

1122
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,320
Speaker 1: Phil is gauging just on fines, you have wanted to

1123
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:36,240
Speaker 1: clearly I'm gonna I'm gonna be quick here. I don't

1124
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:39,240
Speaker 1: understand why anybody like I get eating fish, I get

1125
00:59:39,280 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: harvesting fish. Having that many fish, particularly freshwater fish, and

1126
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:45,640
Speaker 1: freezer doesn't make that much sense to me. I don't

1127
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 1: There's something going on there that I can't wrap my

1128
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,840
Speaker 1: head around. I try to be I try to be

1129
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,480
Speaker 1: compassionate about like these people whose stories come up, but

1130
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 1: this one really I just struggle with. And to your

1131
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: other point, yeah, these all the fines here may not

1132
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: ever get paid, these people who may not be able to.

1133
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: But I do think that having a story that puts

1134
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 1: the word out there that can dissuade other people totally

1135
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 1: making similar choices. And that's where particularly the prawns story,

1136
01:00:10,480 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 1: like oh ship, they can come after me for a

1137
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 1: half million dollars. Probably not worth it to poison some

1138
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:19,400
Speaker 1: some prawns tonight. Um, but that you're you're probably right.

1139
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 1: These individuals likely can't pay these fines and likely won't

1140
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:25,320
Speaker 1: change their behavior, but hopefully it changes the behavior of

1141
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 1: many others who might otherwise make similar stupid choices. That's

1142
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 1: my hope. Yeah, well, I mean, unfortunately, it's it's always

1143
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 1: hard to get to uh you never really can see them.

1144
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: Then to find the follow up to these kinds of stories,

1145
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:38,960
Speaker 1: Like I always you read them and you read, you know,

1146
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 1: the fines, but then there's never anything about whether dude

1147
01:00:41,040 --> 01:00:43,440
Speaker 1: actually ended up paying them. So we may never know.

1148
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:45,479
Speaker 1: I don't know. We'll keep an eye out. Um, Phil

1149
01:00:45,520 --> 01:00:47,000
Speaker 1: has got a lot to ponder here. I think we

1150
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: did a good job, like instead of staying just very

1151
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 1: on man, just totally connective. So difficult job for Phil,

1152
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:57,240
Speaker 1: our guest DJ of the week. We're gonna hear from him,

1153
01:00:57,320 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 1: and then we're gonna do a little covering water with

1154
01:00:59,840 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 1: a tarpin. Legend will go full salty miles. I do

1155
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 1: not judge based on which one of your subjects procured

1156
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 1: the largest fine. I rate under three categories spunk, sizzle,

1157
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 1: and SPF, and I think within those parameters, the winner

1158
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 1: is obvious. Joe Surmelli, congratulations. Just for a glimpse behind

1159
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:26,440
Speaker 1: the scenes, I sent Joe and Miles big list of

1160
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:29,360
Speaker 1: songs to choose from, and I did not hear a

1161
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 1: single word back. So I just assumed that they probably

1162
01:01:32,720 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 1: saw the Buddy Rich Big Band on there and regretted

1163
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:38,600
Speaker 1: asking me to contribute. And we're just gonna pretend that

1164
01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:41,919
Speaker 1: it never happened. But no, thanks for including my songs. Guys,

1165
01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:44,520
Speaker 1: appreciate it. I can't wait to see what selections river

1166
01:01:44,600 --> 01:02:01,640
Speaker 1: Horse makes. I'm going in I can hold it wasting

1167
01:02:01,680 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 1: his valuable time with us. Today we have infamous tarping

1168
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:08,640
Speaker 1: guide and photographer David Mangum. What's going on, man, Hey,

1169
01:02:08,680 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 1: how you doing infamous? Infamous? Ye? We'll see well so

1170
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,400
Speaker 1: so so. I I was intentional, man, I used infamous

1171
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 1: to describe you because you've I don't know if you've

1172
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:21,919
Speaker 1: earned or cultivated this this this this kind of reputation

1173
01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:25,720
Speaker 1: right like Bill the rumor mill has it that you

1174
01:02:25,760 --> 01:02:29,320
Speaker 1: can be abrasive maybe on the water? Is that is

1175
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 1: that legit? Did you like really deserve that, or is

1176
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 1: just really good brand marketing. I don't know. I mean,

1177
01:02:34,840 --> 01:02:37,360
Speaker 1: I guess it depends whether you mean to the boats

1178
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 1: that are near me or to the people on my boat.

1179
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 1: So h the answers would be different. But no, uh,

1180
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:45,240
Speaker 1: you know, I think when I was younger, I was

1181
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,080
Speaker 1: a little more abrasive, But in my old age, I've

1182
01:02:48,440 --> 01:02:52,640
Speaker 1: I've soppened up. Let's say, how's that? How's that? I

1183
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:55,080
Speaker 1: like that? I think we all mellow with age, and

1184
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 1: I know I do, yeah a little bit. We've asked

1185
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 1: you here to to do this. I guess you'd call

1186
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: it our version of an interview. But you know, instead

1187
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 1: of like conducting a well thought out, proper interview, we

1188
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 1: just blurred out a bunch of ships and see what

1189
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 1: you come back with. So here's how it's gonna work.

1190
01:03:11,320 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 1: Joe's gonna put two minutes on the clock, and then

1191
01:03:13,480 --> 01:03:15,280
Speaker 1: he and I are gonna we're gonna like pepper you

1192
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:18,400
Speaker 1: with rapid fire questions. The goal is to get through

1193
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:20,440
Speaker 1: as many of these as we can in two minutes,

1194
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 1: which means you can't really think about it. You just

1195
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 1: you just got to react. It's a I think I

1196
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 1: describe it as like a verbal roar shock test. First

1197
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 1: thing that comes to your head just say, but in

1198
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 1: the spirit of fairness, we will give you one minute

1199
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 1: at the end to to like, expand and elaborate on

1200
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:38,640
Speaker 1: whichever answer you think is is most interesting or stupid.

1201
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:43,080
Speaker 1: Sound good? Okay? Sure, all right, Joe, you're ready and

1202
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:47,400
Speaker 1: Clark is starting now. Roughly how many clients have you

1203
01:03:47,440 --> 01:03:52,720
Speaker 1: made cry in your career? Zero? Worst place you've ever

1204
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:59,320
Speaker 1: been hooked? Uh? Eyelid. One sentence that describes how you

1205
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 1: feel about boon flies. Uh god, I don't even know

1206
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:12,800
Speaker 1: it since his garbage finish the sentence. I cringe whenever

1207
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 1: a client tells me they've um got high expectations. Yes,

1208
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:23,000
Speaker 1: there go the words that come out of your mouth

1209
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:26,920
Speaker 1: when you see someone trout set on a tarpin blate

1210
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:33,000
Speaker 1: blip blie, believe. What's the greatest tarpin destination outside of

1211
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 1: the US? I'm gonna have to go Guinea Bissau? Oh okay, alright,

1212
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 1: far flow Florida man stories funny or annoying? Oh god,

1213
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:52,040
Speaker 1: both pivotal point in a tarpin fight. People screw up

1214
01:04:52,200 --> 01:04:56,520
Speaker 1: most often both side um just too much bend in

1215
01:04:56,560 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 1: the rod. Okay, greatest angler of all time Zane Gray. Oh,

1216
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 1: saved by the bell or fresh Prince of bel Air

1217
01:05:08,320 --> 01:05:13,320
Speaker 1: Fresh Prince? Yeah? Nice? Black flag no effects or blink

1218
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 1: one two black flag? Oh excellent? Name a bucket list

1219
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: species you haven't checked off your list yet? Oh, I'm

1220
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 1: gonna have to go with black marline. Okay, Yeah, greatest

1221
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:36,840
Speaker 1: fly ever invented? Spoon fly? No kidding? Um? Oh maybe

1222
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:41,080
Speaker 1: the maybe the toad, Gary Mer's toad. Okay, and we

1223
01:05:41,120 --> 01:05:44,080
Speaker 1: have we have time for one last question here. Chasing

1224
01:05:44,120 --> 01:05:50,680
Speaker 1: line class records cool or lame? Somewhere in between depends.

1225
01:05:50,720 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 1: There's a lot to do, There's a lot you have

1226
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: to answer with that question, but somewhere in between. It

1227
01:05:56,120 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 1: all depends on the person chasing. Fair enough, fair enough,

1228
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:01,920
Speaker 1: I mean, now you've got you got your one minute

1229
01:06:01,960 --> 01:06:03,560
Speaker 1: to elaborate. If that's the one you want to go

1230
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 1: on again. Yeah, well, I you know, I think a

1231
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:09,960
Speaker 1: lot of the difference between folks that chase line class records. Um.

1232
01:06:10,000 --> 01:06:12,360
Speaker 1: You know, some folks that have been angling their whole

1233
01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 1: life and have caught everything and they're trying to make

1234
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:18,080
Speaker 1: it more challenging. You know, they don't care if they

1235
01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:20,360
Speaker 1: catch that fishes and they've already caught tons of them,

1236
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 1: so they challenge themselves by trying to do some line

1237
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 1: class records. If you're doing line class records to try

1238
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 1: to make a big name for yourself and you're starting

1239
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:32,200
Speaker 1: out angling, and you start out doing it scarbage were

1240
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 1: We recently reviewed the Monty Burke Lords of the Fly

1241
01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 1: book that kind of goes through that that that whole culture.

1242
01:06:38,400 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've read it, man, but it's

1243
01:06:39,680 --> 01:06:42,840
Speaker 1: it's a really good one. I have, I figured since

1244
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:46,120
Speaker 1: you were in there. So to each his own, I

1245
01:06:46,200 --> 01:06:49,360
Speaker 1: think is the is my feeling on it. I think

1246
01:06:50,280 --> 01:06:53,560
Speaker 1: in some ways it's great chase the line class records.

1247
01:06:53,560 --> 01:06:56,440
Speaker 1: In some ways, I don't know. I'm hot and cold

1248
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:58,680
Speaker 1: on it, but I think I'm warming up to it

1249
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:03,160
Speaker 1: a little more after you know the the book and

1250
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 1: kind of looking into the hearts of some of those

1251
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:08,120
Speaker 1: people to do it. So then we appreciate you. You're

1252
01:07:08,160 --> 01:07:09,840
Speaker 1: taking the time to talk with this man and coming

1253
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:14,880
Speaker 1: on here. We hope to talk to again soon. So

1254
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:18,760
Speaker 1: I've never actually hung out with Dave, but we we have.

1255
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:22,800
Speaker 1: We have quite a few mutual friends. But I've never liked,

1256
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:26,480
Speaker 1: never had a beer with the guy. He's as you know,

1257
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:29,040
Speaker 1: he's an icon in the saltwater fly fishing world. But

1258
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 1: he definitely has that reputation, like a long standing reputation

1259
01:07:32,280 --> 01:07:36,160
Speaker 1: of being a hardass, right. Oh yeah, yeah, dude. I

1260
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 1: know people who fished them back in the day. They

1261
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:39,480
Speaker 1: were like scared, they were a little bit scared. And

1262
01:07:39,560 --> 01:07:42,680
Speaker 1: I don't I don't personally know him either, but supposedly,

1263
01:07:42,920 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 1: supposedly he's this super amped up hothead, but that that

1264
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:49,480
Speaker 1: was not the guy who showed up for interview. I

1265
01:07:49,520 --> 01:07:51,320
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. I don't know what it is.

1266
01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:52,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's just mellowed out because he's

1267
01:07:52,960 --> 01:07:54,640
Speaker 1: gotten a little older, he was just in a like

1268
01:07:54,680 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 1: a chill mode because we caught him, you know, in

1269
01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:00,520
Speaker 1: the off season, not between crazy Tarp and Trip, or

1270
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:02,720
Speaker 1: if he's just trying to like soften his public image,

1271
01:08:02,720 --> 01:08:06,120
Speaker 1: which is also a possibility. But he was not um

1272
01:08:06,160 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 1: at all like the intimidating, aggro dude that he's been

1273
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 1: made out to be. I feel like I feel like

1274
01:08:12,080 --> 01:08:16,800
Speaker 1: he's hired a PR consultant or something. Someone you got,

1275
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:18,560
Speaker 1: you got an interview, come up, Okay, here's what you

1276
01:08:18,600 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 1: gotta do. Take three volume wash it down with this.

1277
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. He wasn't He wasn't the he didn't

1278
01:08:26,320 --> 01:08:29,120
Speaker 1: show up anyway as as the image that he's been

1279
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:31,679
Speaker 1: built up to be. And I don't know if I

1280
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:33,760
Speaker 1: disappointed or if I was relieved about that. I was

1281
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:36,519
Speaker 1: kind of ready for this edgy interview that was that

1282
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:38,920
Speaker 1: was combative, and it just wasn't like that at all.

1283
01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:41,599
Speaker 1: It was he was kind of tame. Actually, yeah, yeah,

1284
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 1: I mean maybe he's different when he hits the water,

1285
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,680
Speaker 1: which would mean that he has something in common with

1286
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:48,880
Speaker 1: a classic fly you're gonna tell us about in this

1287
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:51,280
Speaker 1: week's end of the line, which also happens to be

1288
01:08:51,960 --> 01:09:02,920
Speaker 1: my favorite dry fly. Well that's not loud enough. One

1289
01:09:02,960 --> 01:09:06,120
Speaker 1: mid March years ago, a former fishing buddy and I

1290
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:09,080
Speaker 1: skipped down for a few rain soaked days. The trip

1291
01:09:09,160 --> 01:09:14,800
Speaker 1: turned into an exercise and cognitive dissonance misery amid euphoria.

1292
01:09:15,400 --> 01:09:18,120
Speaker 1: Three days of steady downpour with tempts that never crept

1293
01:09:18,200 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 1: above the low forties. The air and water were nearly indistinguishable,

1294
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 1: being about the same temperature and saturation level. We set

1295
01:09:26,320 --> 01:09:29,280
Speaker 1: up camp in the rain, rendering our shelters wet from

1296
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:33,639
Speaker 1: the start. And leaving us no escape, no warm, cozy respite.

1297
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 1: So we just stayed on the river from daylight to dusk,

1298
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:39,880
Speaker 1: because though our bodies may have been damp and cold,

1299
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:43,639
Speaker 1: we experienced three days of the most spectacular trout fishing

1300
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 1: either of us had ever seen before or since. Insects

1301
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:51,400
Speaker 1: emerged from the water in sheets, creating a near mirror

1302
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:55,240
Speaker 1: image of the falling rain, and just about every trout

1303
01:09:55,320 --> 01:09:58,280
Speaker 1: settled at the surface with their mouths wide. The gray

1304
01:09:58,360 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 1: light and steady drizzle made them far less spooky than

1305
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:04,280
Speaker 1: usual on this particular tail water, and since the weather

1306
01:10:04,400 --> 01:10:08,719
Speaker 1: was more Southeast Alaska than Fort Lauderdale, the spring break

1307
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:12,080
Speaker 1: crowds were absent. We didn't quite have the place to ourselves,

1308
01:10:12,120 --> 01:10:14,760
Speaker 1: but with hoods up and eyes focused, we hardly saw

1309
01:10:14,840 --> 01:10:18,439
Speaker 1: another soul. The first morning we set up in a long,

1310
01:10:18,479 --> 01:10:22,719
Speaker 1: slick covered and feeding fish. Two different insects were hatching

1311
01:10:23,240 --> 01:10:27,920
Speaker 1: tiny midges and just slightly larger slate colored mayflies called batas.

1312
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:31,200
Speaker 1: The fish seemed to be alternating between bugs, so I

1313
01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:34,519
Speaker 1: kept switching flies. One fish would be focused on midges,

1314
01:10:34,560 --> 01:10:38,360
Speaker 1: while the fish just below it only wanted mayflies. Meanwhile,

1315
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:43,479
Speaker 1: my buddy standing just downstream remained consistently hooked up without

1316
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:47,519
Speaker 1: ever retiring. I finally broke down, while shivering and trying

1317
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:52,679
Speaker 1: to thread hair thin mono into a miniscule hook eye again, Dude,

1318
01:10:52,680 --> 01:10:57,800
Speaker 1: what are you using? And atoms size twenty, he replied,

1319
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:00,880
Speaker 1: Rod still bent. Kind of look like a midge cluster,

1320
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:04,360
Speaker 1: kind of looks like a batis. I dug into my box,

1321
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,719
Speaker 1: tied on a size twenty Adams, and didn't change flies

1322
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:09,920
Speaker 1: again for the rest of the trip, except when one

1323
01:11:10,000 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 1: got chewed beyond recognition or broken off by a big fish.

1324
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 1: If I could, I would rename the Atoms the gray

1325
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:22,040
Speaker 1: area with a gray dubbed body and some buggy hackle.

1326
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:26,240
Speaker 1: It's the prototypical anything fly. You can find it in

1327
01:11:26,320 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 1: sizes that range from damn near invisible like what we

1328
01:11:29,280 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 1: were fishing in that rainstorm hatch, to holy sh it

1329
01:11:32,120 --> 01:11:35,599
Speaker 1: is that hummingbird. Depending on how it's tied, it can

1330
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 1: imitate midges, mayflies, catas, even ants, and fool everything from

1331
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:45,600
Speaker 1: the most naive backcountry opportunists to the most selective tailwater scrutinizers.

1332
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:51,559
Speaker 1: The Atoms was invented in Michigan in two The story

1333
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:55,360
Speaker 1: goes like this, Charles Adams, an attorney and avid fly

1334
01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:58,360
Speaker 1: angler who regularly traveled to Michigan to fish the famous

1335
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:01,479
Speaker 1: Boardman River, found him self in a position familiar to

1336
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 1: almost anyone who trout fishes. He was on the Mayfield

1337
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 1: pond one summer evening and found fish rising to some

1338
01:12:09,160 --> 01:12:12,959
Speaker 1: kind of insect that he could not identify or imitate.

1339
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 1: Now Adams couldn't tie flies. He was your standard relatively clueless,

1340
01:12:18,240 --> 01:12:21,759
Speaker 1: wealthy sport. So the next day he went to local

1341
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:26,080
Speaker 1: fly tire Leonard Halliday, and described in broad and general

1342
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:30,360
Speaker 1: terms the confounding bug. Holliday lashed golden pheasant feathers to

1343
01:12:30,400 --> 01:12:33,599
Speaker 1: a size fourteen hook to create the tail, coarsely dubbed

1344
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:36,680
Speaker 1: the body with gray wool yarn, and then made oversized

1345
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 1: wings and hackle from rooster neck feathers. Halliday handed the

1346
01:12:40,120 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 1: creation to Adams, who fished at the following day and

1347
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:49,400
Speaker 1: reported incredible success. Being a humble Midwestern fellow, Holliday decided

1348
01:12:49,400 --> 01:12:52,040
Speaker 1: to name the fly not after himself, but the man

1349
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:56,400
Speaker 1: who commissioned it, telling Lee Adam's initial success on the

1350
01:12:56,400 --> 01:12:59,639
Speaker 1: new fly didn't come on the pond where the mystery

1351
01:12:59,640 --> 01:13:03,960
Speaker 1: hatch actually went down. Instead, he proved its effectiveness on

1352
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 1: the nearby Boardman River, where the insects would almost certainly

1353
01:13:07,479 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 1: have been different, which makes the perfect origin story for

1354
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:17,120
Speaker 1: this fly that can imitate just about anything. Also, fittingly,

1355
01:13:17,640 --> 01:13:20,320
Speaker 1: the modern Atoms in your fly box or local fly

1356
01:13:20,439 --> 01:13:24,960
Speaker 1: binds doesn't include a single one of those original materials

1357
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:29,360
Speaker 1: from Holiday's invention. Over the past ninety years, the fly

1358
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:33,559
Speaker 1: is transformed. What was once a bushy, oversized, and frankly

1359
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:37,040
Speaker 1: kind of sloppy looking fly morphed into a relatively sleek

1360
01:13:37,439 --> 01:13:42,519
Speaker 1: and sparse profile as American fly tying evolved. Unlike modern

1361
01:13:42,560 --> 01:13:45,719
Speaker 1: fly marketing, where a tire swaps out a single material

1362
01:13:45,760 --> 01:13:48,040
Speaker 1: and then claims to have invented a whole new pattern,

1363
01:13:48,439 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 1: the Atoms evolved steadily but completely, without ever losing its name.

1364
01:13:54,640 --> 01:13:58,639
Speaker 1: It became a collaborative pastiche of American fly tying tradition

1365
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:01,920
Speaker 1: as a whole, with dozens of different innovators adding their

1366
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:06,519
Speaker 1: own flare to it over the decades without demanding any credit. First,

1367
01:14:06,520 --> 01:14:09,280
Speaker 1: the golden pheasant tail changed to brown or grizzly hackle

1368
01:14:09,360 --> 01:14:13,240
Speaker 1: fibers sometime in the mid nineties. Next to go was

1369
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:16,160
Speaker 1: the wooly yarn body, which has a tendency to absorb

1370
01:14:16,240 --> 01:14:18,920
Speaker 1: water and cause the fly to sink, replaced by much

1371
01:14:18,920 --> 01:14:22,960
Speaker 1: more buoyant muskrat fur. Then the wings and hackle shifted

1372
01:14:23,000 --> 01:14:26,519
Speaker 1: to an upright cat skill style. Eventually the fly lost

1373
01:14:26,560 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 1: most of its original form. Today's Atoms sports a calf

1374
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:32,679
Speaker 1: tail or poly yarn parachute instead of hackle tip wings,

1375
01:14:32,880 --> 01:14:36,719
Speaker 1: and a synthetic dubbed body. The only attribute it shares

1376
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:41,679
Speaker 1: with the original is the color gray, a generic stand

1377
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:45,240
Speaker 1: in that can pass for just about anything. The Atoms

1378
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:50,599
Speaker 1: is a perfect reminder the profile and presentation matter more

1379
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:54,240
Speaker 1: than exact representation when it comes to fly fishing. Cut

1380
01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:56,280
Speaker 1: off the tail, pick out the dubbing a little, and

1381
01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:58,720
Speaker 1: it looks like a cat as. Keep it sleek and

1382
01:14:58,760 --> 01:15:00,880
Speaker 1: it can imitate just about, and you may fly on

1383
01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:02,479
Speaker 1: the planet as long as you get the size right.

1384
01:15:02,760 --> 01:15:06,160
Speaker 1: Most of all, it's the perfect fly to use when

1385
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:10,400
Speaker 1: you encounter a situation like the fly's namesake Charles Adams

1386
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:14,559
Speaker 1: did on that Michigan pond in the early twenties, when

1387
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:17,599
Speaker 1: fish are feeding on some kind of bug that you

1388
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:21,320
Speaker 1: can't seem to identify. You don't need a text photos

1389
01:15:21,360 --> 01:15:26,440
Speaker 1: to some aquatic entomologist friend. Just grabbing atoms of appropriate size,

1390
01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 1: and make a good cast. So that is all we

1391
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:37,280
Speaker 1: have in the fly bin for you guys this week.

1392
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:40,559
Speaker 1: We hope that we didn't piss off any of our

1393
01:15:40,600 --> 01:15:44,599
Speaker 1: fly furious listeners or our glorious sponsors thirteen Fishing, who

1394
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:48,000
Speaker 1: doesn't make fly rods but does make badass rods of

1395
01:15:48,040 --> 01:15:50,920
Speaker 1: many other kinds. But if we did, anger you, take

1396
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:53,479
Speaker 1: a deep breath, find your center, get a grip on

1397
01:15:53,479 --> 01:15:56,640
Speaker 1: that tapered leader, and cut about a foot off the

1398
01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 1: butt end. Seek inner clarity on the reasons why you

1399
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:02,160
Speaker 1: are chasing those line class records in the first place,

1400
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:08,080
Speaker 1: and reconnect with the whole family of flies named Adams.

1401
01:16:08,200 --> 01:16:11,720
Speaker 1: Nice mouthful. It was a lot, but I liked I

1402
01:16:11,840 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 1: liked puns in that. And if you're struggling with your

1403
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:20,559
Speaker 1: feelings about fly fishing or this episode, or have any

1404
01:16:20,640 --> 01:16:23,040
Speaker 1: questions that we might be able to help with, drop

1405
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:26,000
Speaker 1: us a line. Email us at bent at the meat

1406
01:16:26,000 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 1: eater dot com. Also, I just gotta say, all of

1407
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:32,040
Speaker 1: you out there, you've been kind of slacking on the

1408
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:37,800
Speaker 1: awkward photos and the bar nominations lately. Between we love

1409
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:40,679
Speaker 1: those segments and they don't exist without your help. So

1410
01:16:41,320 --> 01:16:43,679
Speaker 1: send us what you got, help us out keep them going,

1411
01:16:43,760 --> 01:16:46,600
Speaker 1: please please, please do, and don't forget to drop the

1412
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:50,240
Speaker 1: Degenerate Angler and Bent podcast hashtags on the Gram for

1413
01:16:50,280 --> 01:16:54,880
Speaker 1: additional chances to win stickers from us. And finally, keep

1414
01:16:54,920 --> 01:16:57,639
Speaker 1: in mind that most of us learned to fly fish

1415
01:16:57,720 --> 01:17:00,880
Speaker 1: on a neighborhood pond with a shitty, second or third

1416
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:04,639
Speaker 1: hand set up we bought cheaper stole from a family member.

1417
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:07,280
Speaker 1: You don't need a trust fund and a frequent flyer

1418
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 1: account to have fun with a long rock. Give a shot,

1419
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:32,360
Speaker 1: h