WEBVTT - Rick Wilson, Kate Conger, Ryan Mac & Amanda Becker

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<v Speaker 1>Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>we discussed the top political headlines with some of today's

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<v Speaker 1>best minds.

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<v Speaker 2>And Donald Trump has raged truth, the words that will

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<v Speaker 2>soon bring him much misery in his existence. I hate

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<v Speaker 2>Taylor Swift. We have such a great show for you today,

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<v Speaker 2>Kick Konger and Ryan Max dot By to talk to

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<v Speaker 2>their new book character Women, how Elon Musk destroyed Twitter.

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<v Speaker 2>Then the nineteenth Samanda Becker will tell us about her

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<v Speaker 2>new book You Must Stand Up the Fight for Abortion

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<v Speaker 2>rights and post dobs America. But first we have the

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<v Speaker 2>host of the Enemy's List, the Lincoln Project's own Rick Wilson.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to Fast Politics.

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<v Speaker 3>For Wilson, why do you sound so for Lauren Kamala

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<v Speaker 3>Harris kicked the ever loving shit out of Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 3>up and down that stage just three nights ago, like

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<v Speaker 3>he was a rented mule. I mean, listen, you should

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<v Speaker 3>be in a happy place right now. We got dogs

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<v Speaker 3>and cats living in sin together. Oh, are being eaten

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<v Speaker 3>one of the two?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, no one's eating dogs. And then they

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<v Speaker 1>went to well, maybe not dogs, but geese. And then

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<v Speaker 1>they went to, well, maybe not geese, but there's this woman.

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<v Speaker 1>They just have nothing.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, they have one crazy person who's not a Haitian.

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<v Speaker 1>Who in a different town.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah right, and a differency may have done something with

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<v Speaker 3>a cat. But I mean the whole thing is, I know,

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<v Speaker 3>you're shocked to hear this, a farrago of lies and horseshit.

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<v Speaker 1>Shocking, shocking, Yes, was shocked because those guys are known

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<v Speaker 1>for being legit, and there's some possibility that taking Laura

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<v Speaker 1>Lumer with you.

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<v Speaker 3>Listen, Laura Lumer. I like to think of her now

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<v Speaker 3>as the campaign's general consultant, which I really like. I

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<v Speaker 3>think it's going to make the campaign much more efficient.

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<v Speaker 3>If Donald Trump really has waited this long to bring

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<v Speaker 3>Laura Lumer into the family, it's been a mistake. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>she is so brilliantly able to catch the mood of America,

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<v Speaker 3>the sweet spot of American politics. I mean, yesterday calling

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<v Speaker 3>out Lindsay Graham for being gay, being a nine to

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<v Speaker 3>eleven truther, being a monstrous shit bag human being the

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<v Speaker 3>first order. I mean, there's nothing about Laura Lumer honestly

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<v Speaker 3>that doesn't make America say this is the right choice

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<v Speaker 3>for president, because he's going to surround himself with the

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<v Speaker 3>very best people.

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<v Speaker 1>Also, I would like to add that it was nine

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<v Speaker 1>to eleven this week and he went to the nine

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<v Speaker 1>to eleven services he went to.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean he was there, but was he really there?

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<v Speaker 1>And she was on the plane, so I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>that she went to the events.

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<v Speaker 3>No, she was on the plane for the debate.

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<v Speaker 1>Also, Yeah, she's been going around to a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>places with him.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, and he's been not wearing his wedding ring. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>not saying that Alina Habba has anything to worry about,

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<v Speaker 3>but you know, tongues are wagging. You have me here

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<v Speaker 3>to perform just that kind of stunt.

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<v Speaker 1>Rick Wilson, let me ask you a question. I actually

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<v Speaker 1>am in a bad mood and worried more not in

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<v Speaker 1>a bad mood, but more worried about a little stay

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<v Speaker 1>called Pennsylvania. Yeah, so talk me off the ledge about Pennsylvania.

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<v Speaker 3>I will tell you Pennsylvania is the lynch pen of

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<v Speaker 3>the campaign. That's real talk. I'm not going to bass

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<v Speaker 3>you and tell you that Pennsylvania is not super super

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<v Speaker 3>super important. It is very important. Without Pennsylvania, the world

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<v Speaker 3>falls apart and we're all living as mutants in a

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<v Speaker 3>radioactive healthscape that makes Mad Max look like sound of music.

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<v Speaker 3>It is not great if we don't win Pennsylvania. But

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<v Speaker 3>I think we're gonna win Pennsylvania.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, tell me why.

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<v Speaker 3>I do not believe that we are in the same

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<v Speaker 3>spot that they think we are. I think Pennsylvania, particularly

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<v Speaker 3>in Bucks County, has a big, big number of pro

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<v Speaker 3>choice Republican women and independent leaning conservative women who are

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<v Speaker 3>pro choice. And I know we're working very much there

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<v Speaker 3>at the moment. We're going to be in there with

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of resources. We're feeling like there's a degree

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<v Speaker 3>of economic uplift you're going to get when the rate

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<v Speaker 3>cut kicks in in a week or so, when the

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<v Speaker 3>Fed kicks the raids down. Pennsylvania's an area that's been

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<v Speaker 3>hard hit by housing, the explosive housing costs. It's going

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<v Speaker 3>to be close run thing. I feel much better about

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<v Speaker 3>Michigan and Wisconsin than I have in the past. I'm

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<v Speaker 3>optimistic about North Carolina. I'm optimistic about Georgia. Don't quote me,

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<v Speaker 3>but I'm even starting to feel much better about Nevada,

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<v Speaker 3>which I was not super happy about for a long time.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, tell us why.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's starting to come into a position in Nevada.

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<v Speaker 3>So Pennsylvania's going to be tough. We got to win it.

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<v Speaker 3>And there's a lot of angry, pissed off white bros there.

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<v Speaker 3>That's a real talk, that's a real fact.

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<v Speaker 1>And she has been going to Pittsburgh, right, Explain to

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<v Speaker 1>us the thinking there.

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<v Speaker 3>She's been going to Pittsburgh, She's been going to Philadelphia.

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<v Speaker 3>She's been in the Tea that area between Pittsburgh and

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<v Speaker 3>Philadelphia a couple times. Now Walls is there. I think

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<v Speaker 3>he probably lives there now. He's everything but a permanent resident.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, well he should because he's the perfect person for there. Right, absolutely,

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<v Speaker 1>explain to us why he.

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<v Speaker 3>Scans as a regular suburban, middle class white guy. He

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<v Speaker 3>does not scan as a Democratic Party elite ready to

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<v Speaker 3>make you eat insect low for whatever the fuck fantasy

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<v Speaker 3>of them at the moment. And all of this is

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<v Speaker 3>going to come down, I think too. You know, do

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<v Speaker 3>we end up with meaningful African American turnout in the

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<v Speaker 3>Caller counties around Philadelphia and those Coller counties are Look,

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<v Speaker 3>Hillary Clinton must be very very blunt. Her campaign did

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<v Speaker 3>a terrible job activating African Americans in those Coller counties.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's why Trump won the state. He did not

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<v Speaker 3>win the state in twenty twenty. I gotta tell you,

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<v Speaker 3>does anybody believe that there are more Trump voters now

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<v Speaker 3>than there were in twenty twenty.

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<v Speaker 1>No? Are there?

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<v Speaker 3>No, there are not. They are a declining stock. They're

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<v Speaker 3>a dying breed.

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<v Speaker 1>Why Biden did better in Pennsylvania is because they knew

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<v Speaker 1>him in Pennsylvania, because Delaware shares a media market connects.

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<v Speaker 3>With Pennsylvania voters. And in fact, you've got in Walls

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<v Speaker 3>a guy who is a familiar flavor. He's biden Esque

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<v Speaker 3>in that regard. He is somebody they get. They know

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<v Speaker 3>who this guy is, they know the type of guy

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<v Speaker 3>he is, and he doesn't scare them. It's real hard,

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<v Speaker 3>it's real hard for the Trumpers to go. Tim Walls

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<v Speaker 3>is a communist socialist from liberal California. That Tim Wall's

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<v Speaker 3>plan to make it to seize the means of production.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, come on, get the fuck out of here.

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<v Speaker 3>That guy does not scare people. And they hate it.

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<v Speaker 3>But he doesn't scare people. They really hate it. They're like,

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<v Speaker 3>they're frustrated as shit. They've been looking for, like any

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<v Speaker 3>opo punch to hit Tim Walls with. For weeks now,

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<v Speaker 3>and they can't make it happen. They can't make the sell.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think that JD. Vance being in the state

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<v Speaker 1>actually hurts Trump?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, look, I tell you one thing. JD. Vance being

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<v Speaker 3>in Ohio, being from Ohio has hurt Trump in Ohio.

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<v Speaker 3>The number one lesson of every vice presidential candidate is

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<v Speaker 3>that your job is to go to weddings and funerals.

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<v Speaker 3>As a general rule, do no harm is the primary

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<v Speaker 3>mission of a vice presidential candidate. And he has done harm.

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<v Speaker 3>He has hurt Donald Trump in his home state of Ohio.

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<v Speaker 3>And for all that Trump is a guy who loves

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<v Speaker 3>people who suck up to him, what did we see

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<v Speaker 3>from Trump the other night with JD Vance? He sold

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<v Speaker 3>him down the river. I didn't talk to jd about that.

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<v Speaker 3>Who I think he's an intern, maybe a coffee boy.

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<v Speaker 3>He may have been on the campaign for five minutes,

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<v Speaker 3>but I've never spoke to him, met him, or know

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<v Speaker 3>anything about him. That is all.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so very good. Alec Baldwin doing.

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<v Speaker 3>Trump Molly, That's all I can do.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it's very impressive.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm a man with many, many severe limitations, and that's

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<v Speaker 3>one of them. Don't have a good Trump imitation.

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<v Speaker 1>But here's a question for you. So let's just game

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<v Speaker 1>this out. North Carolina early voting has been disturbed by

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<v Speaker 1>the worst person in the world, RFK Junior.

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<v Speaker 3>Discuss Look, the early voting has been problematic because we

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<v Speaker 3>have RFK fighting to get off the ballot and to

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<v Speaker 3>review the ballots right now. You also have today the

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<v Speaker 3>Trump folks and their allies. They are trying to bring

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<v Speaker 3>lawsuits to forbid college students and state workers and other

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<v Speaker 3>people from voting early. The whole thing is, of course,

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<v Speaker 3>exactly what you would have expected their usual fuckery.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, does it work?

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think it works in the end. You know why.

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<v Speaker 3>It's September. There's plenty of time to have early voting

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<v Speaker 3>continue to successfully give us a real, meaningful lift for Harris.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think there's anything that's gonna stop that, given that,

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<v Speaker 3>given that Trump has been such a bad candidate lately,

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<v Speaker 3>has had no good days. I mean, Trump does not

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<v Speaker 3>have good days anymore, real talk. I mean this in

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<v Speaker 3>a serious way, not a dark way. Trump's best day

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<v Speaker 3>was the day he got shot. That was the last

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<v Speaker 3>moment that his campaign felt like there was something there

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<v Speaker 3>beyond just the angry, shitty conspiracy theory, crazy talk bullshit.

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<v Speaker 1>Well it felt new, yeah, right, Well.

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<v Speaker 3>It didn't feel it wasn't new, but it felt purposeful

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<v Speaker 3>at least, right. Yeah, But right now, all it feels

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<v Speaker 3>like is complaint to palooza and lies and weird shit,

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<v Speaker 3>because right now it is just weird shit, and weird

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<v Speaker 3>shit doesn't sell after a certain point.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so you feel like North Carolina, that's not going

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<v Speaker 1>to be a huge disturbance.

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<v Speaker 3>No, I look, I would I like it to be

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<v Speaker 3>slightly less full of fuckery? Yes, of course, is it

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<v Speaker 3>disqualifying levels of fuckery? Not really? I think again. Trump

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<v Speaker 3>has a problem that he cannot solve with women voters.

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<v Speaker 3>He did not solve it the other night in the

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<v Speaker 3>debate when he tried to bs his way past and

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<v Speaker 3>gave probably the most damaging single answer about abortion I

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<v Speaker 3>could have conceived.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, let's talk about that answer.

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<v Speaker 3>It was so broken brained. I'm still marveling, because look,

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<v Speaker 3>what do we know about Trump? He wants to brag.

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<v Speaker 3>He wants to say, oh, I killed Rivy Wade. I

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<v Speaker 3>put them on the court. Their active bravery on the

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<v Speaker 3>court shows how great I am. Sorry, I'm doing it again,

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<v Speaker 3>you have to just sorry going on with then he

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<v Speaker 3>knows he Trump's feral animal cunning and his awareness. He

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<v Speaker 3>knows just how bad, just how shit the the National

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<v Speaker 3>Band stuff is. He knows just how bad and how

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<v Speaker 3>dangerous all the things the Republicans have done in the

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<v Speaker 3>States has become to him. He recognizes that he's stupid,

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<v Speaker 3>but he's not that stupid, if that makes sense. He

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<v Speaker 3>is not in a good place, okay, he is in

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<v Speaker 3>a bad, bad place. That bad place is getting worse

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<v Speaker 3>by the day, and he understands it. He really does know.

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<v Speaker 3>He knows how bad it is. But he couldn't get

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<v Speaker 3>out of his own way with that answer. He couldn't

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<v Speaker 3>not do the I'm the greatest thing since prepared mustard,

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<v Speaker 3>I'm the God king answer. And so you know, here

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<v Speaker 3>we are with Trump pissing off the evangelicals on the

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<v Speaker 3>one hand and pissing off the rest of America on

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<v Speaker 3>the other. It was a bad play. It was a

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<v Speaker 3>terrible play. So that those people are going to make

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<v Speaker 3>a big difference in Pennsylvania in particular.

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<v Speaker 1>The thing that gets me incensed about Trump and Trump

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<v Speaker 1>is and the way that people talk about Trump, including

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<v Speaker 1>in the media, industrial complex of which we are members.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that they always say, like, he just needs to

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<v Speaker 1>get disciplined. Well, he just has to stick to script.

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<v Speaker 1>Has no one been here for the last decade?

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<v Speaker 3>Right, Welcome to the Year of Our Lord twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 3>We are nine years and five months into this fucking bullshit.

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<v Speaker 3>Have you not noticed that Donald Trump has the personal

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<v Speaker 3>discipline of an incontinent drunkard. Donald Trump cannot focus on

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<v Speaker 3>anything for longer than it gives him an erection, a

0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.880
<v Speaker 3>belief he's going to make money off of this, or

0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:34.280
<v Speaker 3>some sort of cruelty. Nothing. In Trump's world. He is

0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:38.360
<v Speaker 3>the ultimate add candidate. He has no ability to focus.

0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:40.880
<v Speaker 3>There is no better Trump. There is no better iteration

0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:43.319
<v Speaker 3>of Trump. There is no Donald Trump where where he

0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:45.240
<v Speaker 3>wakes up in the morning and says, why yes, I

0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:47.839
<v Speaker 3>believe I should sit down with my policy advisors and

0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:51.280
<v Speaker 3>develop a coherent rationale for this argument. Instead, it's like

0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:55.319
<v Speaker 3>Laura Lumer tell me they're eating the cats, they're eating

0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:58.120
<v Speaker 3>the dogs, and Stephen Miller, I think he has some

0:11:58.160 --> 0:11:59.760
<v Speaker 3>blood in his mouth. He may have eaten the dog,

0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:04.600
<v Speaker 3>but I believe him. And it's all fucking crazy town.

0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:08.439
<v Speaker 3>He will never be better no Republican who is empowered

0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:10.880
<v Speaker 3>and enabled and kissed his ass for as long as

0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:14.680
<v Speaker 3>they have has any excuse at all whatsoever. There is

0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.640
<v Speaker 3>no excuse there. It is over, it is done. He

0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.560
<v Speaker 3>has poisoned them in a way that they don't even

0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:24.160
<v Speaker 3>understand how deep the rot runs in their own brains

0:12:24.160 --> 0:12:27.120
<v Speaker 3>and their own party, because they're still rationalizing it. They're

0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.319
<v Speaker 3>still trying to say, like, well, one of the people

0:12:29.320 --> 0:12:31.800
<v Speaker 3>in the Reuters focus group was undecided and said that

0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:34.880
<v Speaker 3>Harris didn't have enough granularity on her policy. Trump's policy

0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:36.880
<v Speaker 3>was to stand up there and talk about eating dogs

0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:42.440
<v Speaker 3>and executing the Central Park five. The madness levels here

0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:45.000
<v Speaker 3>are off the charts.

0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.360
<v Speaker 1>And I would say the false equivalency here is pretty amazing,

0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:53.679
<v Speaker 1>like continually always expected to be normal, and Republicans are

0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:55.240
<v Speaker 1>allowed to be insane, not.

0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:57.960
<v Speaker 3>Just allowed to be insane mally. Let's remember the mainstream

0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:02.920
<v Speaker 3>media has consistently said things like Trump's energetic and transgressive performance,

0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.959
<v Speaker 3>this appeal to middle class voters. You know what, There

0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:08.160
<v Speaker 3>are some voters that they have appeals to, But there

0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:09.480
<v Speaker 3>are some people that like to go to the zoo

0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.880
<v Speaker 3>and watch monkeys throw shit at them.

0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:15.040
<v Speaker 1>So one of the things that got me upset was

0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.680
<v Speaker 1>there was a Republican senator I've never heard of, which

0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.040
<v Speaker 1>in itself has not nothing. He's in I think North

0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.719
<v Speaker 1>Dakota maybe, and he was saying that he wasn't sure

0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:26.320
<v Speaker 1>they were going to certify the election.

0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.360
<v Speaker 3>That's Mark Wayne Mullen. That's all one name, Mark Wayne.

0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:30.840
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:34.360
<v Speaker 3>Who the fuck is that Mark Wayne Mullen. Okay, first off,

0:13:34.480 --> 0:13:40.840
<v Speaker 3>let's be very clear. Mark is a staggering, epic, world

0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:45.480
<v Speaker 3>class dipshit the worst Mago cuckoo pants people are like, yo,

0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:48.560
<v Speaker 3>Mark Wayne dial batshit back man, that's too much, brother.

0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.320
<v Speaker 3>He is one of the worst human beings in that body.

0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:53.280
<v Speaker 1>Has he been there a long time? I never even

0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:54.160
<v Speaker 1>heard of him.

0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:56.160
<v Speaker 3>No, he's only been there like four years now.

0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:56.920
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.760
<v Speaker 3>He is a guy you can count on Mark Wayne

0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.360
<v Speaker 3>to be the shittiest human being on earth. He's a

0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.600
<v Speaker 3>guy who ran and cowered under a bench on one

0:14:05.600 --> 0:14:09.440
<v Speaker 3>to six, but now is like the heroes of January sixth,

0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:13.480
<v Speaker 3>must fight against the deep state imprisoning our beloved allies.

0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:17.720
<v Speaker 3>Fuck this guy. He is a epic, epic piece of shit.

0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:20.720
<v Speaker 3>There is a real possibility these people will vote to

0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:24.120
<v Speaker 3>not certify the election. There's a very real possibility that

0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:26.160
<v Speaker 3>that's what's going to happen. I think I think it's

0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.160
<v Speaker 3>like a seventy percent possibility. You're going to have people

0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:31.720
<v Speaker 3>in the Senate who do not certify the election. We're

0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.720
<v Speaker 3>going to have a constitutional crisis because Donny dipshit will

0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.680
<v Speaker 3>not say to his people, I lost. Okay, you're right,

0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.040
<v Speaker 3>you got me. I lost, and we're going to end

0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:45.040
<v Speaker 3>up with an absolute horror show going into next year

0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:48.280
<v Speaker 3>is going to be terrible. And everybody right now who

0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:54.440
<v Speaker 3>thinks somehow that Donald Trump will be dignified, correct proper,

0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.440
<v Speaker 3>that he will say, why, yes, you're right. For the

0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.040
<v Speaker 3>good of the country, I must declare that I I

0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.440
<v Speaker 3>have lost this election and accept my defeat. On the

0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.560
<v Speaker 3>field of battle. She could beat him by four hundred

0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:06.440
<v Speaker 3>Electoral College votes, and that fucker is going to go

0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:09.680
<v Speaker 3>out and go It was stolen. Stalin stolen. One of

0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.600
<v Speaker 3>those things I like the dictator and the pastry. Also,

0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:13.720
<v Speaker 3>the election was stalin.

0:15:13.920 --> 0:15:16.840
<v Speaker 1>Are we worried that this will kip to the Supreme

0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:20.080
<v Speaker 1>Court and that they'll overturn the election results.

0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.640
<v Speaker 3>Yes, we should be. That is why the defeat has

0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.720
<v Speaker 3>to be in such a scope it does have to

0:15:25.720 --> 0:15:30.280
<v Speaker 3>be like Obama McCain, not like Biden Trump. She has

0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.240
<v Speaker 3>to beat Trump in a scope well beyond how Biden

0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:35.760
<v Speaker 3>beat him. I hate saying that because it's hard.

0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:37.320
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that can happen?

0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:39.880
<v Speaker 3>No, wait, it's going to be very difficult to get there.

0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.800
<v Speaker 3>I wanted to. I'm working every day to make it happen.

0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:46.640
<v Speaker 3>But we should not mistake that this is a very

0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:50.560
<v Speaker 3>precarious moment in our history where you have a party

0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:54.840
<v Speaker 3>and a president who will do anything to win. They

0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:56.960
<v Speaker 3>will lie, cheat, and steel. We have to fight them

0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.760
<v Speaker 3>every step of the way. Harris is running a great campaign,

0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:03.120
<v Speaker 3>running the best campaign that we've seen in our lifetimes.

0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:06.200
<v Speaker 3>That doesn't mean that Trump will not try to steal it.

0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:08.640
<v Speaker 3>He will try to steal it. There is no chance

0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:12.080
<v Speaker 3>on earth that Donald Trump. Just like people say, oh well,

0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:14.840
<v Speaker 3>Donald Trump needs to be mature, someone says Donald Trump

0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:17.680
<v Speaker 3>needs to be a person who respects the constitution of

0:16:17.720 --> 0:16:20.520
<v Speaker 3>the rule of law. Will good luck with that? Have

0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:21.440
<v Speaker 3>fun storm in that.

0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:25.120
<v Speaker 1>Castle, Rick Wilson, Now I'm stressed out again.

0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:27.600
<v Speaker 3>Well, Molly, all we can do is just keep kicking

0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:31.160
<v Speaker 3>his ass.

0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.440
<v Speaker 2>We have even more tour dates for you. Did you

0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.000
<v Speaker 2>know the Lincoln Projects, Rick Willson have Fast Politics Bali

0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:40.200
<v Speaker 2>Jug Faster. Are heading out on tour to bring you

0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:43.560
<v Speaker 2>a night of laughs for our dark political landscape. Join

0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:45.720
<v Speaker 2>us on August twenty sixth at San Francisco at the

0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:49.040
<v Speaker 2>Swedish American Hall, or in la on August twenty seventh

0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.640
<v Speaker 2>at the Regent Theater. Then we're headed to the Midwest.

0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:54.280
<v Speaker 2>We'll be at the Vivarium in Milwaukee on the twenty

0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:56.880
<v Speaker 2>first of September and on the twenty second will be

0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.120
<v Speaker 2>in Chicago with City Wiry. Then we're going to hit

0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.000
<v Speaker 2>the East coast September thirtieth, We'll be in Boston at

0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Arts at the Armory. On the first of October, we'll

0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.040
<v Speaker 2>be in Affiliates City Winery, and then DC on the

0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.720
<v Speaker 2>second at the Miracle Theater. And today we just announced

0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:11.399
<v Speaker 2>that we'll be in New York on the fourteenth of

0:17:11.400 --> 0:17:14.320
<v Speaker 2>October at Citywinery. If you need to laugh as we

0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.919
<v Speaker 2>get through this election and hopefully never hear from a

0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:19.200
<v Speaker 2>guy who lives in a golf club again, we got

0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:21.720
<v Speaker 2>you covered. Join us in our surprise guests to help

0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:23.760
<v Speaker 2>you laugh instead of cry your way through this election

0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:26.639
<v Speaker 2>season and give you the inside analysis of what's really

0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:29.200
<v Speaker 2>going on right now. Buy your tickets now by heading

0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:34.040
<v Speaker 2>to Politics as Unusual dot bio. That's Politics as Unusual

0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:38.920
<v Speaker 2>dot bio. Ryan Mack and Kate Kunger are the authors

0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.679
<v Speaker 2>of Character Limit, How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter.

0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:47.720
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Fast Politics Cade. Thank you and Ryan.

0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:49.400
<v Speaker 5>Hey, Molly, So you.

0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:52.320
<v Speaker 1>Guys did a book together. First of all, just give

0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:54.359
<v Speaker 1>us everything about this book.

0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:56.280
<v Speaker 6>Well you said earlier twenty minutes right.

0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:02.000
<v Speaker 7>So the book is Character Limit, How Elon Musk Destroyed Twitter,

0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:06.960
<v Speaker 7>and we take you through the saga that has been

0:18:07.040 --> 0:18:09.959
<v Speaker 7>Twitter over the last several years, starting with sort of

0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:13.160
<v Speaker 7>the twilight era of the company, the end of Jack

0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:17.200
<v Speaker 7>Dorsey's tenure as CEO and Perogue Algarol's brief period as

0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.199
<v Speaker 7>a CEO, and then Elon Musk of course swoops in,

0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:22.399
<v Speaker 7>makes it offer to buy it, says he doesn't want

0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.639
<v Speaker 7>to buy it anymore, says he wants to buy it again,

0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:28.199
<v Speaker 7>and then we finished the story with the aftermath of

0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:31.240
<v Speaker 7>Elon's takeover in the way that he changed and transformed

0:18:31.280 --> 0:18:31.719
<v Speaker 7>the company.

0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:34.560
<v Speaker 1>Yes, so this feels like the kind of book where

0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:37.000
<v Speaker 1>you get going on it and you're shocked at how

0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.399
<v Speaker 1>much worse it really is then you even thought is

0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:41.440
<v Speaker 1>it discussed?

0:18:41.640 --> 0:18:45.199
<v Speaker 5>So the genesis of this book was we're reporters at

0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.600
<v Speaker 5>the New York Times. Kate is the b reporter for

0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:53.119
<v Speaker 5>Twitter now x I cover accountability and cover you know,

0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:56.840
<v Speaker 5>billionaires and figures in Silicon Valley, and we reported on

0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:00.600
<v Speaker 5>this deal from its start to the takeover, and yeah,

0:19:00.640 --> 0:19:03.159
<v Speaker 5>we were getting so much reporting that we simply couldn't

0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:06.440
<v Speaker 5>put it into every single one of our stories.

0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:06.959
<v Speaker 3>Like we just couldn't.

0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:10.440
<v Speaker 5>We couldn't do a justice, you know, right, And there

0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:14.240
<v Speaker 5>were things we'd love to expand upon from you know,

0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:17.120
<v Speaker 5>elon try to pull out of the deal, for example,

0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:19.800
<v Speaker 5>or even after the deal, the types of cuts he made,

0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:23.160
<v Speaker 5>things like not having toilet paper in the bathrooms because

0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:26.320
<v Speaker 5>he cut the janitorial service, Like just details like that

0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:29.520
<v Speaker 5>that we're just so confounding to us and so bizarre

0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:32.720
<v Speaker 5>and so unprecedented in a takeover like this where one

0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:35.800
<v Speaker 5>man could you know, essentially buy a company for forty

0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.280
<v Speaker 5>four billion dollars, you know, at the sap of his fingers.

0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.320
<v Speaker 1>Did you think it would happen? And were you shocked?

0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:44.200
<v Speaker 1>It's sort of the process that it took, you know.

0:19:44.280 --> 0:19:47.600
<v Speaker 7>This is so funny because I think if you had

0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.040
<v Speaker 7>asked me on any given day during that summer of

0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:52.159
<v Speaker 7>twenty twenty two whether or not the deal was going

0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:54.760
<v Speaker 7>to close, I would have given a different answer. And

0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:58.680
<v Speaker 7>even up to the moment that everyone's seen online where

0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.480
<v Speaker 7>Elon walked into the Twitter building with a sink and

0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:04.399
<v Speaker 7>made that hokey joke about let that sink in, I

0:20:04.520 --> 0:20:07.280
<v Speaker 7>was still not sure that he was actually going to

0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.240
<v Speaker 7>do it, because at that point it had just been

0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:15.080
<v Speaker 7>such a chaotic process that it seemed like he might

0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.840
<v Speaker 7>still pull the rug out from under the whole thing.

0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:19.520
<v Speaker 7>And I think a lot of the people on the

0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:21.919
<v Speaker 7>Twitter side of the deal felt that way too. You know,

0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:24.960
<v Speaker 7>even as he was there in the building saying he

0:20:25.119 --> 0:20:28.879
<v Speaker 7>was about to buy the company, they weren't willing to

0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:31.360
<v Speaker 7>leave him until they saw the money in the bank account.

0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:34.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. This reminds me a little bit of the Trump administration.

0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:40.840
<v Speaker 1>It seemed improbable, impossible, undoable. It got done, but in

0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:45.720
<v Speaker 1>a very haphazard way with a lot of unhappy people involved.

0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Is it similar in that way?

0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:48.119
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? I don't know.

0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:51.000
<v Speaker 5>I didn't do much reporting on the Trump administration. I

0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.119
<v Speaker 5>know the stories of like you know, he didn't expect

0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:55.560
<v Speaker 5>to win, and then they find themselves in twenty sixteen

0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:58.520
<v Speaker 5>having to run a government. If that's the framework that

0:20:58.560 --> 0:21:01.240
<v Speaker 5>we're thinking of, then with musks takeover, there are a

0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:03.240
<v Speaker 5>lot of similarities. Like you made an offer kind of

0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:05.600
<v Speaker 5>on a whim. He tried to pull out. Everyone remembers

0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:09.920
<v Speaker 5>the bot argument. You know, there's so many bots, there's fraud.

0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:10.200
<v Speaker 3>On this platform.

0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:11.800
<v Speaker 5>I'm not going to buy it. He tries to back out.

0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:14.720
<v Speaker 5>He's then forced to buy it at the price he

0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.439
<v Speaker 5>admits to overpaying for forty four billion dollars, and he

0:21:18.520 --> 0:21:21.200
<v Speaker 5>kind of comes in shooting from the hip. There's really

0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:23.639
<v Speaker 5>no plan here for what he's going to do with

0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:25.600
<v Speaker 5>this thing. He's he's talking about these kind of pie

0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.800
<v Speaker 5>in the sky concepts, building a quote unquote everything app

0:21:28.920 --> 0:21:32.400
<v Speaker 5>wanting to bring in payments to Twitter, but fundamentally misunderstanding

0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:35.600
<v Speaker 5>that this is a social platform and a very human platform.

0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:38.120
<v Speaker 5>You're connecting humans to talk to each other, and when

0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:40.160
<v Speaker 5>people talk to each other, there's all these messy things

0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:44.920
<v Speaker 5>that happen, And you know, I think that misunderstanding is

0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:47.960
<v Speaker 5>led to the cast that we see today, from the

0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:52.199
<v Speaker 5>multiple rounds of layoffs to the issues with governments all

0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:56.040
<v Speaker 5>around the world to just the loss of advertisers and

0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:58.399
<v Speaker 5>the decrease in valuation. I mean the company is now

0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:01.840
<v Speaker 5>worth internally less than twenty billion dollars. You know, that

0:22:01.960 --> 0:22:06.640
<v Speaker 5>is a stunning kind of devaluation over two years, done

0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:08.000
<v Speaker 5>by the man who's supposed to be one of the

0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:09.080
<v Speaker 5>best businessmen in the world.

0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:22:09.960 --> 0:22:13.280
<v Speaker 7>I think there are just a lot of parallels between

0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:16.000
<v Speaker 7>him and Trump. I mean, both of them just sort

0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:19.400
<v Speaker 7>of command Internet attention. Both of them have this sort

0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:23.120
<v Speaker 7>of rotating cast of characters surrounding them, where people are

0:22:23.440 --> 0:22:26.399
<v Speaker 7>in one day and then cast out the next. And

0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:29.760
<v Speaker 7>there's even this one photo I think it is from

0:22:30.359 --> 0:22:33.560
<v Speaker 7>when Elon Musk attended the met gala, but he's in

0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:36.280
<v Speaker 7>a tux and he's given the thumbs up post.

0:22:36.320 --> 0:22:38.840
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, and I saw.

0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:41.480
<v Speaker 7>That photo, I was like, whoa, they look eerily early

0:22:41.560 --> 0:22:44.040
<v Speaker 7>similar when he's in the right costume and doing the

0:22:44.119 --> 0:22:46.800
<v Speaker 7>right post. I think there's a lot of parallels between

0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:48.560
<v Speaker 7>the way that they conduct themselves.

0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:51.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean I knew some people inside Twitter. I

0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:53.879
<v Speaker 1>mean there was a sense there it felt to me

0:22:54.040 --> 0:22:56.720
<v Speaker 1>like they had sort of built this little paradise and

0:22:56.760 --> 0:22:59.720
<v Speaker 1>that it couldn't be destroyed so easily. And then it

0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:03.800
<v Speaker 1>really was what is the feeling of the people who

0:23:03.960 --> 0:23:06.639
<v Speaker 1>are in there or were in there because most of

0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:07.240
<v Speaker 1>them are gone.

0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:09.320
<v Speaker 5>Probably part of the reason why we wanted to write

0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:11.600
<v Speaker 5>this book is we wanted to kind of dispel this

0:23:11.680 --> 0:23:15.320
<v Speaker 5>myth that like everything at Twitter was perfect Elon.

0:23:15.640 --> 0:23:16.120
<v Speaker 3>This was a.

0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:19.399
<v Speaker 5>Company that had a lot of issues, from its balance

0:23:19.440 --> 0:23:23.919
<v Speaker 5>sheet and its business to employee happiness, I guess, and

0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:27.000
<v Speaker 5>content moderation decisions. You know, this is a company that

0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:31.080
<v Speaker 5>had to deal with COVID misinformation and the platforming of

0:23:31.119 --> 0:23:33.520
<v Speaker 5>President Trump. I mean, these were the New York Post

0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:38.159
<v Speaker 5>article about Hunter Biden, monumental decisions that drew it a

0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:40.200
<v Speaker 5>lot of flack. And you know, the company was a

0:23:40.280 --> 0:23:43.520
<v Speaker 5>lightning rod constantly. So I don't know if i'd call

0:23:43.560 --> 0:23:46.040
<v Speaker 5>it a paradise. I mean, it certainly wasn't what it

0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:49.280
<v Speaker 5>is today. You know, this kind of mess under Elon,

0:23:49.440 --> 0:23:51.639
<v Speaker 5>But it wasn't a happy place. It was, you know,

0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:53.480
<v Speaker 5>a lot more stable. It was a place where you

0:23:53.480 --> 0:23:54.320
<v Speaker 5>could build a career.

0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:57.639
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, and I think Twitter is such a unique place

0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:01.960
<v Speaker 7>even within the tech industry, and I think pretty much

0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:05.720
<v Speaker 7>any tech job you get the founders or the CEO

0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:07.679
<v Speaker 7>is going to try to convince you to come with

0:24:07.760 --> 0:24:09.919
<v Speaker 7>a real sense of mission, right.

0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:12.880
<v Speaker 6>But I think you know, a lot.

0:24:12.720 --> 0:24:17.000
<v Speaker 7>Of Google employees, for instance, feel pretty divorced from the

0:24:17.040 --> 0:24:20.200
<v Speaker 7>notion that they are there to like help people access

0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:23.960
<v Speaker 7>and catalog the world's information, Right. But I think Twitter

0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:27.760
<v Speaker 7>was the place where people who worked there really grasped

0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:30.920
<v Speaker 7>onto the mission and believed in it in a way

0:24:31.240 --> 0:24:33.439
<v Speaker 7>a lot of other tech employees are just kind of

0:24:33.480 --> 0:24:36.560
<v Speaker 7>like rolling their eyes. And I think Bright and I

0:24:36.640 --> 0:24:40.040
<v Speaker 7>shared that sense that there was something uniquely important about

0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:42.080
<v Speaker 7>what Twitter was doing as a company. In the way

0:24:42.480 --> 0:24:48.520
<v Speaker 7>that it was creating this platform for political speech was

0:24:48.560 --> 0:24:52.639
<v Speaker 7>really fascinating. But as Ryan said, we also wanted to

0:24:53.320 --> 0:24:56.160
<v Speaker 7>portray some of the bumps and lumps that were in there,

0:24:56.760 --> 0:24:59.240
<v Speaker 7>problems that were going on at the company, because that

0:24:59.400 --> 0:25:02.919
<v Speaker 7>narrative just got very distilled down into like good Twitter

0:25:03.040 --> 0:25:05.760
<v Speaker 7>and evil Elon and and we want to take that

0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:06.360
<v Speaker 7>a little bit.

0:25:06.680 --> 0:25:09.040
<v Speaker 5>I don't think we can discount how much there were

0:25:09.200 --> 0:25:11.560
<v Speaker 5>a group of employees in the company who were excited

0:25:11.560 --> 0:25:13.919
<v Speaker 5>about Elon's takeover, or at least wanted to give him

0:25:13.920 --> 0:25:15.560
<v Speaker 5>a chance. You know, this is a company that had

0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:19.600
<v Speaker 5>stagnated with product production, like they couldn't launch a product

0:25:19.600 --> 0:25:21.359
<v Speaker 5>if their life depended on it in some way, you know.

0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:24.120
<v Speaker 5>He Compared to some of the other tech companies out there,

0:25:24.480 --> 0:25:27.560
<v Speaker 5>things were going really slow. There was little innovation, and

0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:30.000
<v Speaker 5>they thought that Elon was the guy who would kickstart

0:25:30.000 --> 0:25:32.359
<v Speaker 5>all this. You know, he had electrified cars, he had

0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:35.840
<v Speaker 5>put rockets into space. Why couldn't we do better things

0:25:35.920 --> 0:25:37.720
<v Speaker 5>under him? And they saw this as kind of the

0:25:37.800 --> 0:25:40.240
<v Speaker 5>lightning bolt that they needed to get things going again.

0:25:40.320 --> 0:25:42.600
<v Speaker 5>But it was the lightning bolt that essentially started an

0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:45.000
<v Speaker 5>inferno inside the company and burn the place down.

0:25:45.160 --> 0:25:48.400
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, right, it totally did. And I know there

0:25:48.560 --> 0:25:51.280
<v Speaker 1>was a lot of that. And also like fundamentally the

0:25:51.320 --> 0:25:53.320
<v Speaker 1>business was not profitable, right.

0:25:53.400 --> 0:25:54.800
<v Speaker 6>Yes, that's pretty much true.

0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:58.720
<v Speaker 7>There was a period of profitability that the company had,

0:25:58.920 --> 0:26:02.600
<v Speaker 7>I want to say, pre COVID, and then during COVID

0:26:02.720 --> 0:26:06.600
<v Speaker 7>actually they were doing fairly well and then had kind

0:26:06.600 --> 0:26:09.919
<v Speaker 7>of fallen off of their numbers by the time Elon

0:26:10.000 --> 0:26:11.720
<v Speaker 7>came in and proposed the acquisition.

0:26:12.320 --> 0:26:14.800
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I mean, this is a company that gets compared

0:26:14.840 --> 0:26:17.400
<v Speaker 5>to Facebook or Meta a lot, you know, and that's

0:26:17.440 --> 0:26:20.560
<v Speaker 5>a company that has more than a billion I think

0:26:20.560 --> 0:26:23.879
<v Speaker 5>it's close to two billion users across all its platforms now.

0:26:24.040 --> 0:26:26.679
<v Speaker 5>Twitter at its peak had hundreds of millions. You know,

0:26:26.840 --> 0:26:28.760
<v Speaker 5>this was a company that wasn't drawing in the ad

0:26:28.800 --> 0:26:31.840
<v Speaker 5>revenue that a meta draws in, and it was just

0:26:31.880 --> 0:26:35.240
<v Speaker 5>kind of this kind of floating business. It was stagnant

0:26:35.280 --> 0:26:37.920
<v Speaker 5>in some ways, it floated along, and it was kind

0:26:37.920 --> 0:26:39.680
<v Speaker 5>of ripe for the picking for someone like you On

0:26:39.840 --> 0:26:41.919
<v Speaker 5>to come and swoop in and make an offer.

0:26:42.200 --> 0:26:45.000
<v Speaker 1>The large request I feel like with Elon was to

0:26:45.040 --> 0:26:47.920
<v Speaker 1>try to make or as Trump call him Leon, to

0:26:47.960 --> 0:26:52.760
<v Speaker 1>try to make Twitter profitable, right, And he's done a

0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:56.000
<v Speaker 1>number of different things to try to do that. He

0:26:56.119 --> 0:26:59.120
<v Speaker 1>has done a lot of businesses, and many of them

0:26:59.320 --> 0:27:04.280
<v Speaker 1>have struggled with like actual profitability or being priced for

0:27:04.359 --> 0:27:07.640
<v Speaker 1>what their ebuita is. To talk to us about that, sure.

0:27:07.440 --> 0:27:10.600
<v Speaker 5>I mean Tesla was not profitable for years. I mean,

0:27:10.720 --> 0:27:13.840
<v Speaker 5>the car business is incredibly hard. It's why a lot

0:27:13.880 --> 0:27:17.160
<v Speaker 5>of car startups fail. And he went through periods where

0:27:17.200 --> 0:27:19.639
<v Speaker 5>he was on the verge of bankruptcy almost to his

0:27:19.720 --> 0:27:22.679
<v Speaker 5>last dollar, and was able to pull it out. You know,

0:27:22.760 --> 0:27:24.920
<v Speaker 5>I think as something like twenty eighteen, for example, where

0:27:24.960 --> 0:27:28.480
<v Speaker 5>he can't manufacture enough Model three cars, this kind of

0:27:28.520 --> 0:27:32.159
<v Speaker 5>low cost car, mass market car, and is in this

0:27:32.200 --> 0:27:34.640
<v Speaker 5>thing called production hell. And he's really, you know, kind

0:27:34.680 --> 0:27:37.439
<v Speaker 5>of at his wits end, sleeping on the factory floor

0:27:37.640 --> 0:27:39.800
<v Speaker 5>or on the couch in the factory, trying to make

0:27:39.920 --> 0:27:42.199
<v Speaker 5>enough cars. You know, it's part of his mythos. And

0:27:42.240 --> 0:27:44.800
<v Speaker 5>he gets out of that period and the company survives,

0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:47.000
<v Speaker 5>and you know, the stock price shoots to the roof,

0:27:47.080 --> 0:27:49.360
<v Speaker 5>and he is where he is today with this net

0:27:49.400 --> 0:27:51.800
<v Speaker 5>worth of more than two hundred and fifty billion dollars.

0:27:52.040 --> 0:27:54.240
<v Speaker 5>But he's kind of lived life on the edge and

0:27:54.280 --> 0:27:57.120
<v Speaker 5>making these big bets on the idea that these companies,

0:27:57.160 --> 0:27:59.480
<v Speaker 5>you know, are going to be worth hundreds of billions

0:27:59.480 --> 0:28:02.520
<v Speaker 5>of dollars. SpaceX the same way. It's still private, but

0:28:02.840 --> 0:28:05.080
<v Speaker 5>it went through periods where was on the bridge of bankruptcy.

0:28:05.119 --> 0:28:07.800
<v Speaker 5>If you know, the next rocket exploded, they wouldn't have

0:28:07.840 --> 0:28:10.600
<v Speaker 5>any more capital to build the next one. And he

0:28:10.680 --> 0:28:14.359
<v Speaker 5>sees himself as this kind of hero, this kind of

0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:17.600
<v Speaker 5>generational entrepreneur who can do things better and more efficient

0:28:17.760 --> 0:28:19.800
<v Speaker 5>than the last. That's how he came into Twitter. He

0:28:19.800 --> 0:28:24.280
<v Speaker 5>thought Twitter's past management was inept, corrupt, fraudulent, and he

0:28:24.359 --> 0:28:27.040
<v Speaker 5>thought he could do these things way more efficiently and

0:28:27.080 --> 0:28:29.800
<v Speaker 5>just simply cut and cut and cut and cut and

0:28:29.920 --> 0:28:32.520
<v Speaker 5>get things to where he thought they needed to be,

0:28:32.960 --> 0:28:37.160
<v Speaker 5>as well as you know, generate these unthought of business lines,

0:28:37.560 --> 0:28:40.240
<v Speaker 5>things like selling the verification badges, which he thought he

0:28:40.240 --> 0:28:42.760
<v Speaker 5>could do for millions of people. He thought millions of

0:28:42.760 --> 0:28:45.280
<v Speaker 5>people would buy these badges at eight dollars a month

0:28:45.280 --> 0:28:47.600
<v Speaker 5>and create this new revenue stream for the company, And

0:28:47.720 --> 0:28:52.120
<v Speaker 5>that's just been a complete disaster and miscalculation. This idea

0:28:52.760 --> 0:28:56.200
<v Speaker 5>of must being a generational entrepreneur has become under fire

0:28:56.520 --> 0:28:59.320
<v Speaker 5>with this takeover. You know, it's kind of chewed away

0:28:59.360 --> 0:28:59.920
<v Speaker 5>at as mythos.

0:29:00.440 --> 0:29:03.479
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it seems to me that he was doing a

0:29:03.560 --> 0:29:07.680
<v Speaker 1>lot lot better before he bought Twitter because there was

0:29:07.720 --> 0:29:10.760
<v Speaker 1>this sort of deniability about his political beliefs. It was

0:29:10.800 --> 0:29:14.040
<v Speaker 1>a certain right. I mean, now it's all out there.

0:29:14.360 --> 0:29:19.000
<v Speaker 1>Do you think that this myth kind of has hurt him?

0:29:19.400 --> 0:29:21.960
<v Speaker 7>It has to some extent, you know, I think in

0:29:22.120 --> 0:29:25.480
<v Speaker 7>buying Twitter, I think, you know, Elon sort of put

0:29:25.520 --> 0:29:28.600
<v Speaker 7>himself in the dangerous position that a lot of people

0:29:28.600 --> 0:29:31.280
<v Speaker 7>in the media industry that have done where now spending

0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:31.880
<v Speaker 7>time on Twitter.

0:29:31.880 --> 0:29:33.200
<v Speaker 6>It's supposedly part of his.

0:29:33.160 --> 0:29:36.000
<v Speaker 1>Job, right, It's true. It is a good point.

0:29:36.120 --> 0:29:38.040
<v Speaker 5>You know, Hey, that is it is part of my job.

0:29:38.080 --> 0:29:39.840
<v Speaker 5>Don't take that red from my kit, but it is.

0:29:40.200 --> 0:29:42.800
<v Speaker 1>He really does need to sort of touch grass, right,

0:29:42.840 --> 0:29:43.920
<v Speaker 1>I mean that's what you're saying.

0:29:44.080 --> 0:29:47.960
<v Speaker 7>It's on Twitter all day, every day, and I have

0:29:48.040 --> 0:29:51.160
<v Speaker 7>notifications turned on for his account, and it got to

0:29:51.200 --> 0:29:53.640
<v Speaker 7>the point I used to have like an older iPhone,

0:29:53.720 --> 0:29:56.240
<v Speaker 7>like a iPhone eight or something, and I had to

0:29:56.320 --> 0:29:58.600
<v Speaker 7>upgrade because it was killing my battery because I got

0:29:58.600 --> 0:30:02.400
<v Speaker 7>so many notifications about you. He's prolific, and I think

0:30:02.400 --> 0:30:06.480
<v Speaker 7>it has hurt his public image. I think it's also

0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:12.120
<v Speaker 7>really started to chip away at his fan base within Tesla,

0:30:12.200 --> 0:30:15.560
<v Speaker 7>which is at financial risk for him. You know, his

0:30:15.680 --> 0:30:19.680
<v Speaker 7>Tesla shareholders are not happy about the amount of time

0:30:19.720 --> 0:30:23.560
<v Speaker 7>and attention that he spends on x rather than at Tesla.

0:30:24.200 --> 0:30:30.080
<v Speaker 7>And because he is such a big PERSDA, that's a

0:30:30.120 --> 0:30:34.680
<v Speaker 7>big draw for retail investors to Tesla, and so Tesla

0:30:34.720 --> 0:30:37.880
<v Speaker 7>actually has a disproportionate number of retail investors who are

0:30:37.880 --> 0:30:39.960
<v Speaker 7>invested in the company because they like Elon.

0:30:40.040 --> 0:30:42.120
<v Speaker 6>They're drawn to him, they think he's cool.

0:30:42.000 --> 0:30:45.080
<v Speaker 7>And so as he chips away at that public persona

0:30:45.360 --> 0:30:48.920
<v Speaker 7>and kind of bursts the bubble for people. That affects

0:30:49.080 --> 0:30:51.719
<v Speaker 7>Tesla's stock a little bit more than it might if

0:30:52.080 --> 0:30:53.080
<v Speaker 7>it was a different company.

0:30:53.320 --> 0:30:56.280
<v Speaker 5>I also think, you know, this has hurt his mythos,

0:30:56.320 --> 0:30:59.440
<v Speaker 5>this idea that he is this great entrepreneur. And I

0:30:59.480 --> 0:31:00.920
<v Speaker 5>don't think we can and take this away from him

0:31:00.960 --> 0:31:04.560
<v Speaker 5>that he ushered in the electric car revolution in the

0:31:04.640 --> 0:31:07.560
<v Speaker 5>United States, and he put rockets in a space and

0:31:07.640 --> 0:31:10.800
<v Speaker 5>privatize the space industry. But just because you can do

0:31:10.880 --> 0:31:15.320
<v Speaker 5>those things and build kind of generational companies doesn't necessarily

0:31:15.400 --> 0:31:17.760
<v Speaker 5>make you the best fit to run a social media company.

0:31:18.360 --> 0:31:21.200
<v Speaker 5>And I think it was that hubris that he came

0:31:21.240 --> 0:31:23.600
<v Speaker 5>in with, you know, why can't I do this? Why

0:31:23.640 --> 0:31:26.440
<v Speaker 5>can't I run Twitter? It must be so much easier

0:31:26.480 --> 0:31:29.560
<v Speaker 5>than putting a rocket into space and have it land

0:31:29.600 --> 0:31:32.280
<v Speaker 5>on a platform. These are different problems, and these are

0:31:32.440 --> 0:31:34.720
<v Speaker 5>you know, some some are engineering problems. You know, some

0:31:34.760 --> 0:31:37.040
<v Speaker 5>are electrical engineering problems. But this is a human problem.

0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:39.560
<v Speaker 5>This is a social interaction problem, and I think not

0:31:39.680 --> 0:31:43.040
<v Speaker 5>grasping that has really hurt his image in the public eye.

0:31:43.200 --> 0:31:46.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for sure, Explain to me where the company is

0:31:46.080 --> 0:31:47.440
<v Speaker 1>now and where he is now.

0:31:47.560 --> 0:31:50.719
<v Speaker 7>I mean, I think X is in very precarious shape

0:31:50.760 --> 0:31:55.440
<v Speaker 7>at this point, and he obviously cut the company back

0:31:55.480 --> 0:32:00.080
<v Speaker 7>a lot, and now I think his engineering time, energy

0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:03.960
<v Speaker 7>resources are somewhat split between x the social media platform

0:32:04.040 --> 0:32:08.400
<v Speaker 7>and xai, the sort of AI company slash chatbot that

0:32:08.440 --> 0:32:11.640
<v Speaker 7>he's trying to build. And you know, the platform itself

0:32:11.800 --> 0:32:17.880
<v Speaker 7>is increasingly partisan and focused on Musk's politics in particular,

0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:22.400
<v Speaker 7>and it's also in you know, pretty decayed financial shape.

0:32:22.480 --> 0:32:23.480
<v Speaker 6>You know, we've seen.

0:32:23.520 --> 0:32:26.360
<v Speaker 7>AD revenue continue to fall and fall on fall. Some

0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:29.840
<v Speaker 7>of these big projects that the company has tried in

0:32:29.960 --> 0:32:33.760
<v Speaker 7>order to bring back AD dollars have sort of faltered.

0:32:33.840 --> 0:32:34.000
<v Speaker 6>You know.

0:32:34.040 --> 0:32:38.040
<v Speaker 7>One of those was doing these long form video shows

0:32:38.080 --> 0:32:42.280
<v Speaker 7>with big personalities, and I think Tucker Carlson is probably

0:32:42.320 --> 0:32:45.680
<v Speaker 7>the only example there of someone who's had a successful

0:32:45.720 --> 0:32:47.880
<v Speaker 7>show built on X and even he has kind of

0:32:47.960 --> 0:32:50.720
<v Speaker 7>migrated and started airing his show on his own platform

0:32:50.800 --> 0:32:53.280
<v Speaker 7>around his own website now, I believe, so they really

0:32:53.320 --> 0:32:57.400
<v Speaker 7>struggled to figure out a way to counteract that decline

0:32:57.400 --> 0:33:00.280
<v Speaker 7>in revenue, and at the same time, you know, I

0:33:00.280 --> 0:33:02.680
<v Speaker 7>think there's there's a core set of users who are

0:33:02.840 --> 0:33:07.760
<v Speaker 7>attracted to the partisanship of the platform, but more and

0:33:07.840 --> 0:33:12.160
<v Speaker 7>more that alienates people and drives them to competitors like threads.

0:33:13.400 --> 0:33:16.000
<v Speaker 1>Can he just keep this going forever? Will he need

0:33:16.040 --> 0:33:18.680
<v Speaker 1>to sell the platform at some point? Or can he

0:33:18.840 --> 0:33:20.120
<v Speaker 1>just ride into the bottom?

0:33:21.080 --> 0:33:23.040
<v Speaker 6>I think Ryan and I disagree about this.

0:33:23.840 --> 0:33:26.320
<v Speaker 1>Good, Yeah, just tell us about that and then we're.

0:33:26.520 --> 0:33:29.520
<v Speaker 7>I kind of don't know if there is a bottom, honestly.

0:33:29.640 --> 0:33:32.320
<v Speaker 7>I mean, I think he can just keep going should

0:33:32.360 --> 0:33:36.240
<v Speaker 7>he choose to do so, and has the financial resources

0:33:36.280 --> 0:33:38.480
<v Speaker 7>to do it, and certainly the interests.

0:33:38.120 --> 0:33:40.120
<v Speaker 6>Right, and then that's not a lot of seat fail.

0:33:40.280 --> 0:33:42.600
<v Speaker 6>But I don't know. I think Ryan disagrees a little

0:33:42.600 --> 0:33:43.440
<v Speaker 6>bit on this that.

0:33:43.400 --> 0:33:45.480
<v Speaker 5>There is no bottom, or there is a bottom.

0:33:45.280 --> 0:33:47.160
<v Speaker 1>That he'll have to sell it at some point.

0:33:47.520 --> 0:33:49.600
<v Speaker 5>I don't think he'll have to sell. You know, we

0:33:49.880 --> 0:33:52.040
<v Speaker 5>haven't really talked about the debt payments that he has.

0:33:52.080 --> 0:33:54.320
<v Speaker 5>By the way, he raised billions of dollars in debt

0:33:54.320 --> 0:33:54.600
<v Speaker 5>he has.

0:33:54.760 --> 0:33:55.200
<v Speaker 6>I think he.

0:33:55.320 --> 0:33:57.920
<v Speaker 5>Services to service that debt. He pays more than a

0:33:57.920 --> 0:34:00.520
<v Speaker 5>billion dollars in interest payments a year, which.

0:34:00.360 --> 0:34:00.840
<v Speaker 4>Is kind of this.

0:34:01.520 --> 0:34:04.440
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, can you I don't if you can relate to that.

0:34:04.440 --> 0:34:05.400
<v Speaker 5>That seems like a lot of money.

0:34:05.440 --> 0:34:07.920
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, yeahs are lower.

0:34:09.280 --> 0:34:10.920
<v Speaker 5>I don't know what your credit card bill feels are

0:34:10.920 --> 0:34:14.120
<v Speaker 5>looking like, but but yeah, I mean, like I think

0:34:14.239 --> 0:34:16.840
<v Speaker 5>that that's if we're talking about pain points for Elon,

0:34:17.239 --> 0:34:18.759
<v Speaker 5>that is certainly one of them. This is not a

0:34:18.800 --> 0:34:21.640
<v Speaker 5>guy who has a lot of cash on handy. I mean,

0:34:21.680 --> 0:34:23.520
<v Speaker 5>he has a high net worse, don't get me wrong,

0:34:23.600 --> 0:34:25.480
<v Speaker 5>more than two to fifty billion dollars. But he's not

0:34:25.480 --> 0:34:27.400
<v Speaker 5>liquid on that. That's a lot of tied up in

0:34:27.440 --> 0:34:31.239
<v Speaker 5>a lot of equities in Tesla at SpaceX. He leverages

0:34:31.560 --> 0:34:36.160
<v Speaker 5>his Tesla shares to raise money and cap and cash essentially,

0:34:36.360 --> 0:34:39.040
<v Speaker 5>which is allowed. But you know, we're talking about unrealized

0:34:39.080 --> 0:34:42.600
<v Speaker 5>gains right now in the election. It's exactly that, and

0:34:43.120 --> 0:34:45.640
<v Speaker 5>I think he'll start to feel those pain points. Whether

0:34:45.760 --> 0:34:48.520
<v Speaker 5>or not he'll sell it is another question. I think

0:34:48.520 --> 0:34:51.040
<v Speaker 5>he still personally drives a lot of value from the platform.

0:34:51.040 --> 0:34:51.520
<v Speaker 3>I think the.

0:34:51.480 --> 0:34:53.799
<v Speaker 5>Platform is exactly what he wants it to be. I

0:34:53.800 --> 0:34:56.120
<v Speaker 5>don't know what price you can put on that kind

0:34:56.120 --> 0:34:57.560
<v Speaker 5>of personal enjoyment.

0:34:58.480 --> 0:35:01.120
<v Speaker 1>In the end. Do you think there's some conclusion to

0:35:01.200 --> 0:35:03.600
<v Speaker 1>this or do you think this is just him like

0:35:03.680 --> 0:35:04.480
<v Speaker 1>having a hobby.

0:35:05.000 --> 0:35:08.439
<v Speaker 7>You know, I think in all of our reporting, we

0:35:08.440 --> 0:35:11.360
<v Speaker 7>were never able to find what the greater plan was

0:35:11.440 --> 0:35:14.239
<v Speaker 7>for Twitter. In fact, over and over again, you see

0:35:14.239 --> 0:35:19.640
<v Speaker 7>these moments of just his sort of profound impulsivity and unpreparedness,

0:35:20.080 --> 0:35:24.480
<v Speaker 7>the things that he encounters during the deal. And I

0:35:24.520 --> 0:35:28.000
<v Speaker 7>think that his political leanings are similar of just this

0:35:28.040 --> 0:35:31.880
<v Speaker 7>is something that interests him and fascinates him, and he's

0:35:32.040 --> 0:35:34.759
<v Speaker 7>just kind of dabbling and going with the flow. And

0:35:34.960 --> 0:35:39.480
<v Speaker 7>I don't think that there is some sort of grand

0:35:39.600 --> 0:35:41.799
<v Speaker 7>master plan tacked up on the wall with all the

0:35:41.840 --> 0:35:42.879
<v Speaker 7>red yarn behind him.

0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:45.640
<v Speaker 5>I think he's just I think the way to view

0:35:45.719 --> 0:35:48.880
<v Speaker 5>him is how we view him when he build his companies.

0:35:49.120 --> 0:35:52.440
<v Speaker 5>There is this kind of centered hero complex. He is

0:35:52.480 --> 0:35:54.960
<v Speaker 5>the man who's going to bring us to Mars. But

0:35:55.200 --> 0:35:57.480
<v Speaker 5>if you view it, you know, in this, in this relationship,

0:35:57.560 --> 0:35:59.360
<v Speaker 5>he is the man who is going to help stop

0:35:59.480 --> 0:36:02.560
<v Speaker 5>the immigration crisis at the southern border. He's the man

0:36:02.600 --> 0:36:06.160
<v Speaker 5>that's going to solve election fraud and all these and

0:36:06.239 --> 0:36:08.720
<v Speaker 5>wokeness and all these things that he thinks ails the company,

0:36:09.120 --> 0:36:11.840
<v Speaker 5>and the way to do that is by supporting Donald Trump.

0:36:12.040 --> 0:36:14.480
<v Speaker 5>And it's that hero complex that has serving well in

0:36:14.480 --> 0:36:16.879
<v Speaker 5>the past, and it's how he views the world, and

0:36:16.920 --> 0:36:18.120
<v Speaker 5>I think it's how it's going to serve him in

0:36:18.120 --> 0:36:20.800
<v Speaker 5>the future. So I think that's the kind of number

0:36:20.800 --> 0:36:23.520
<v Speaker 5>one way to analyze what he's thinking about this election.

0:36:24.719 --> 0:36:27.839
<v Speaker 1>So interesting. Thanks you guys, Thank you so much.

0:36:27.880 --> 0:36:28.760
<v Speaker 6>This is really great.

0:36:29.880 --> 0:36:32.680
<v Speaker 1>Are you concerned about Project twenty twenty five and how

0:36:32.719 --> 0:36:36.400
<v Speaker 1>awful Trump's second term could be? Well, so are we,

0:36:36.680 --> 0:36:38.960
<v Speaker 1>which is why we teamed up with iHeart to make

0:36:39.000 --> 0:36:42.600
<v Speaker 1>a limited series with the experts on what a disaster

0:36:43.080 --> 0:36:46.799
<v Speaker 1>Project twenty twenty five would be for America's future. Right now,

0:36:46.840 --> 0:36:50.120
<v Speaker 1>we have just released the final episode of this five

0:36:50.200 --> 0:36:54.240
<v Speaker 1>episode series. They're all available by looking up Molly Jong

0:36:54.360 --> 0:36:57.840
<v Speaker 1>Fast Project twenty twenty five on YouTube, and if you

0:36:57.920 --> 0:37:01.560
<v Speaker 1>are more of a podcast person and not say a YouTuber,

0:37:02.040 --> 0:37:04.360
<v Speaker 1>you can hit play and put your phone in the

0:37:04.400 --> 0:37:07.480
<v Speaker 1>lock screen and it will play back just like the podcast.

0:37:07.760 --> 0:37:11.120
<v Speaker 1>All five episodes are online now. We need to educate

0:37:11.120 --> 0:37:14.759
<v Speaker 1>Americans on what Trump's second term would or could do

0:37:14.880 --> 0:37:17.719
<v Speaker 1>to this country, so please watch it and spread the word.

0:37:20.000 --> 0:37:23.120
<v Speaker 2>Amanda Becker is the Washington correspondent for the nineteenth and

0:37:23.320 --> 0:37:25.960
<v Speaker 2>author of You Must Stand Up, The Fight for Abortion

0:37:26.080 --> 0:37:27.560
<v Speaker 2>Rights and Postdobs America.

0:37:28.400 --> 0:37:33.040
<v Speaker 1>Welcome Back, too fast politics. Amanda Becker, Hi, thanks for

0:37:33.040 --> 0:37:36.360
<v Speaker 1>having me. We're delighted to have you. I want you

0:37:36.400 --> 0:37:39.360
<v Speaker 1>to talk about the Nineteenth for a minute. Sort of

0:37:39.440 --> 0:37:41.960
<v Speaker 1>just give us this landscape of the Nineteenth. A lot

0:37:42.000 --> 0:37:44.200
<v Speaker 1>of us know about it and have been big fans

0:37:44.280 --> 0:37:47.360
<v Speaker 1>of it for a long time, but not everyone. So explain.

0:37:47.680 --> 0:37:52.920
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, So, The Nineteenth is a nonprofit, independent newsroom focused

0:37:52.920 --> 0:37:56.880
<v Speaker 4>on the intersection of politics, policy, and gender. We started

0:37:57.360 --> 0:37:59.919
<v Speaker 4>about four and a half years ago and officially law

0:38:00.280 --> 0:38:03.160
<v Speaker 4>about four years ago, and I have been there since

0:38:03.200 --> 0:38:07.920
<v Speaker 4>the beginning as the Nineteenth Washington Correspondent. So we are

0:38:08.000 --> 0:38:14.160
<v Speaker 4>really focused on the women and LGBTQ people in politics,

0:38:14.520 --> 0:38:18.640
<v Speaker 4>on the policies that matter to them. And so, you know,

0:38:18.680 --> 0:38:22.320
<v Speaker 4>we're covering everything from you know, the fall of Row

0:38:22.360 --> 0:38:25.719
<v Speaker 4>and kind of the chaos that has followed that, it's

0:38:25.840 --> 0:38:29.600
<v Speaker 4>impact on the elections, all of the anti trans legislation

0:38:29.719 --> 0:38:33.360
<v Speaker 4>in the States, and really anything that's important to women

0:38:33.520 --> 0:38:34.760
<v Speaker 4>and LGBTQ people.

0:38:35.080 --> 0:38:39.560
<v Speaker 1>You know, Harris is a Democratic presidential candidate. She's a woman.

0:38:40.239 --> 0:38:44.280
<v Speaker 1>There has been some discussion about the sort of shift

0:38:44.520 --> 0:38:47.600
<v Speaker 1>from Hillary Clinton, you know, when she was the candidate.

0:38:47.600 --> 0:38:50.200
<v Speaker 1>She's also a woman. We live in this country of

0:38:50.239 --> 0:38:53.560
<v Speaker 1>sort of hyper misogyny that a lot of it's really,

0:38:54.040 --> 0:38:57.600
<v Speaker 1>I think, institutionalized. And how have you seen a change

0:38:58.160 --> 0:38:59.640
<v Speaker 1>since twenty sixteen?

0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:01.960
<v Speaker 4>You know, I've been thinking about this a lot, Molly,

0:39:02.200 --> 0:39:04.560
<v Speaker 4>And actually my family was texting me when I was

0:39:04.600 --> 0:39:07.719
<v Speaker 4>standing on the floor at the Democratic National Convention kind

0:39:07.719 --> 0:39:11.600
<v Speaker 4>of watching Vice President Kamala Harris give her a speech.

0:39:12.000 --> 0:39:15.759
<v Speaker 4>It just felt different. And I've been trying to explain

0:39:15.960 --> 0:39:18.920
<v Speaker 4>to myself even kind of what felt different about it.

0:39:19.000 --> 0:39:21.440
<v Speaker 4>And you might have some ideas about this as well,

0:39:21.480 --> 0:39:25.520
<v Speaker 4>but I think that she is felt as like a

0:39:25.560 --> 0:39:29.160
<v Speaker 4>new generation of leaders. You know, she's not that much

0:39:29.239 --> 0:39:33.160
<v Speaker 4>younger than Clinton, but I think that that difference matters

0:39:33.640 --> 0:39:36.600
<v Speaker 4>in terms of their ages. And it just felt really different.

0:39:36.640 --> 0:39:39.400
<v Speaker 4>I mean, I was with Clinton following her campaign for

0:39:39.440 --> 0:39:43.040
<v Speaker 4>two years in twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen, and now

0:39:43.040 --> 0:39:45.279
<v Speaker 4>I'm covering this election, you know, a little bit less

0:39:45.360 --> 0:39:47.279
<v Speaker 4>day to day as I was then, as I was

0:39:47.320 --> 0:39:49.279
<v Speaker 4>at a wire service at the time, But it just

0:39:49.360 --> 0:39:51.960
<v Speaker 4>felt really different. And I think that women in this

0:39:52.120 --> 0:39:57.759
<v Speaker 4>country have realized the impact of Donald Trump being elected

0:39:58.040 --> 0:40:01.520
<v Speaker 4>over Hillary Clinton in a very real way, right because

0:40:01.800 --> 0:40:04.520
<v Speaker 4>it led to the loss of forty nine years of

0:40:04.560 --> 0:40:09.200
<v Speaker 4>abortion rights in this country, and there's really no denying

0:40:09.719 --> 0:40:11.879
<v Speaker 4>that that is evident in the way people are thinking

0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:14.359
<v Speaker 4>about voting now, and so I think that also has

0:40:14.400 --> 0:40:18.160
<v Speaker 4>something to do with the enthusiasm for Kamala Harris's candidacy.

0:40:18.400 --> 0:40:21.720
<v Speaker 1>I agree, but I'm just trying to sort of figure

0:40:21.760 --> 0:40:25.839
<v Speaker 1>this out. If this is true, which you know, this

0:40:25.880 --> 0:40:28.920
<v Speaker 1>would mean sort of that the women can make up

0:40:28.960 --> 0:40:31.239
<v Speaker 1>the difference. Like one of the things I've seen in

0:40:31.280 --> 0:40:34.080
<v Speaker 1>this campaign is Trump has gone like all in on misogyny.

0:40:34.520 --> 0:40:38.640
<v Speaker 1>So like he's going on these far right podcasts of

0:40:38.719 --> 0:40:42.520
<v Speaker 1>young podcasters, he's selling NFTs. I mean that I think

0:40:42.840 --> 0:40:45.879
<v Speaker 1>maybe more scamm than misogyny. But like you know, he's

0:40:45.920 --> 0:40:49.040
<v Speaker 1>got Whule Cogan. So many of the speakers at the

0:40:49.200 --> 0:40:53.160
<v Speaker 1>RNC had like allegations of domestic violence, right, Like this

0:40:53.360 --> 0:40:55.480
<v Speaker 1>was like if you were it was like big divorce

0:40:55.640 --> 0:40:59.839
<v Speaker 1>dad energy, right. Bill Ackman is his greatest champion. Like

0:41:00.080 --> 0:41:03.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, anyone on their first wife is not going

0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:05.880
<v Speaker 1>to necessarily respond to this message. But how do you

0:41:05.960 --> 0:41:10.000
<v Speaker 1>think that, Like, I mean, I think his calculus is

0:41:10.040 --> 0:41:12.640
<v Speaker 1>that he's going to be able to run up the

0:41:12.760 --> 0:41:16.440
<v Speaker 1>numbers with divorce Dad energy and that he'll get enough

0:41:16.480 --> 0:41:19.680
<v Speaker 1>white women so he'll be able to win. There certainly

0:41:19.719 --> 0:41:22.239
<v Speaker 1>are white women who identify more with their race than

0:41:22.280 --> 0:41:24.520
<v Speaker 1>their gender. I mean, do you think that's shifting.

0:41:25.040 --> 0:41:26.880
<v Speaker 4>So if you look at polling, and I know pulling

0:41:26.960 --> 0:41:32.640
<v Speaker 4>is incredibly imperfect, we are seeing shifts among white women

0:41:32.840 --> 0:41:36.239
<v Speaker 4>and among married women, and that would be different than

0:41:36.280 --> 0:41:39.000
<v Speaker 4>in twenty sixteen or even in twenty twenty because right

0:41:39.080 --> 0:41:42.839
<v Speaker 4>white women have broken for Trump the past two elections.

0:41:43.080 --> 0:41:45.080
<v Speaker 4>And I know that's hard for a lot of liberal

0:41:45.120 --> 0:41:48.240
<v Speaker 4>white women's stomach, but that is the truth. I remember

0:41:48.239 --> 0:41:50.279
<v Speaker 4>getting hate mail in twenty twenty when I wrote about

0:41:50.280 --> 0:41:53.120
<v Speaker 4>how white women back to Trump. That is something. Honestly,

0:41:53.360 --> 0:41:57.040
<v Speaker 4>I think that that is one of the stories of

0:41:57.080 --> 0:42:00.600
<v Speaker 4>this election. Unfortunately, you know, it takes six months or

0:42:00.680 --> 0:42:03.359
<v Speaker 4>so to get the validated voter data, so all we're

0:42:03.360 --> 0:42:05.319
<v Speaker 4>going to have close to the election to kind of

0:42:05.320 --> 0:42:08.520
<v Speaker 4>look at what happened is except pulling, which is you know,

0:42:08.760 --> 0:42:11.319
<v Speaker 4>just as imperfect as any other type of poll. I

0:42:11.360 --> 0:42:14.840
<v Speaker 4>think this election has the potential to be the one

0:42:15.280 --> 0:42:18.799
<v Speaker 4>in which white women break for the Democratic candidate. And

0:42:19.080 --> 0:42:21.480
<v Speaker 4>I don't know how much of that will end up

0:42:21.520 --> 0:42:25.000
<v Speaker 4>being because it's Kamala Harris. I don't know how much

0:42:25.040 --> 0:42:26.719
<v Speaker 4>of that will end up being because this is the

0:42:26.719 --> 0:42:29.960
<v Speaker 4>first presidential election without Roe v. Wade in place, or

0:42:29.960 --> 0:42:33.560
<v Speaker 4>a combination of things, including what we're hearing from the Republicans,

0:42:33.920 --> 0:42:37.319
<v Speaker 4>which is you have Trump's kind of strain of how

0:42:37.360 --> 0:42:40.479
<v Speaker 4>he looks at gender and masculinity, and then you also

0:42:40.520 --> 0:42:44.040
<v Speaker 4>have Jad Vancis, when this is somebody who has talked

0:42:44.120 --> 0:42:48.080
<v Speaker 4>openly about what he sees as the negative impacts of

0:42:48.120 --> 0:42:52.160
<v Speaker 4>the sexual revolution. He thinks no fault divorce can be

0:42:52.200 --> 0:42:55.600
<v Speaker 4>a bad thing. And these reflect larger trends in the

0:42:55.680 --> 0:42:57.960
<v Speaker 4>right wing of the Republican Party that you know has

0:42:58.000 --> 0:43:01.480
<v Speaker 4>floated legislation and states to kind of roll back no

0:43:01.600 --> 0:43:04.160
<v Speaker 4>fault divorce and a variety of other things that we're

0:43:04.200 --> 0:43:07.440
<v Speaker 4>seen as empowering women over the past fifty years.

0:43:07.680 --> 0:43:10.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean, vance was really a choice to double

0:43:10.080 --> 0:43:12.120
<v Speaker 1>down on that. I think a lot of us wondered

0:43:12.239 --> 0:43:16.840
<v Speaker 1>if picking someone like Nikki Haley might give again, Like

0:43:16.960 --> 0:43:20.320
<v Speaker 1>so much of this election on the hair side, anyway,

0:43:20.360 --> 0:43:24.360
<v Speaker 1>has been about creating a permission structure to give Republicans

0:43:24.440 --> 0:43:26.959
<v Speaker 1>to vote for a Democrat. So, for example, Dick Cheney

0:43:27.040 --> 0:43:30.880
<v Speaker 1>endorsement is not for liberals, It's not even necessarily for

0:43:31.120 --> 0:43:34.839
<v Speaker 1>normal voters. It's for very far right people who can't

0:43:34.840 --> 0:43:38.200
<v Speaker 1>stop MacDonald Trump and who you know, see Dick Cheney

0:43:38.239 --> 0:43:40.759
<v Speaker 1>as that permission. So on the Hair side, we've seen

0:43:40.800 --> 0:43:42.879
<v Speaker 1>a lot of that. On the Trump side, we've seen

0:43:43.000 --> 0:43:45.759
<v Speaker 1>none of that. So the question is right, like, he

0:43:45.800 --> 0:43:47.759
<v Speaker 1>could have picked Nicki Haley as a vice president and

0:43:47.760 --> 0:43:50.239
<v Speaker 1>he was like new go. He did nothing to sort

0:43:50.239 --> 0:43:54.160
<v Speaker 1>of grow the electorate. Now there's a world in which

0:43:54.160 --> 0:43:56.879
<v Speaker 1>that doesn't matter. But don't you think that eventually that

0:43:56.880 --> 0:43:58.279
<v Speaker 1>comes back to bite him.

0:43:58.840 --> 0:44:01.120
<v Speaker 4>I had to say, I was shocked when he chose

0:44:01.239 --> 0:44:04.480
<v Speaker 4>jd Vance. I'm from Ohio, I grew up there, so

0:44:04.560 --> 0:44:08.040
<v Speaker 4>I followed the politics there pretty closely still. Actually his

0:44:08.200 --> 0:44:11.040
<v Speaker 4>grandparents are from the same region of Kentucky that my

0:44:11.120 --> 0:44:15.440
<v Speaker 4>grandparents are from. They settled in Cincinnati, has settled in Middletown,

0:44:15.560 --> 0:44:18.560
<v Speaker 4>which is about, you know, twenty five miles away from

0:44:18.600 --> 0:44:22.440
<v Speaker 4>where my family is. And so I followed his story

0:44:22.560 --> 0:44:25.520
<v Speaker 4>right over the years. And his story has shifted, of course,

0:44:25.560 --> 0:44:27.560
<v Speaker 4>and he frames it in different ways.

0:44:27.560 --> 0:44:31.719
<v Speaker 1>Yes, like his name, his story has shifted, yes.

0:44:31.600 --> 0:44:36.560
<v Speaker 4>Yes, And when Trump chose him I just thought to myself, frankly,

0:44:36.960 --> 0:44:41.640
<v Speaker 4>what is he thinking, Because from my perspective, picking jd

0:44:41.800 --> 0:44:46.120
<v Speaker 4>Vance did nothing and not only didn't hunting to bring

0:44:46.160 --> 0:44:49.960
<v Speaker 4>in any more people who weren't already backing Trump. It

0:44:50.200 --> 0:44:54.759
<v Speaker 4>was a play to like the base. It was potentially

0:44:54.760 --> 0:44:58.000
<v Speaker 4>a move that would alienate people in the middle. And

0:44:58.200 --> 0:44:59.880
<v Speaker 4>I have to just think it was related to the

0:45:00.040 --> 0:45:03.799
<v Speaker 4>assassination attempt and kind of like flying high after recovering

0:45:03.840 --> 0:45:06.839
<v Speaker 4>from that and coming out of that and feeling invincible,

0:45:06.880 --> 0:45:08.839
<v Speaker 4>and of course Joe Biden was still on the top

0:45:08.880 --> 0:45:11.680
<v Speaker 4>of the Democratic ticket, thens they just thought this was

0:45:11.719 --> 0:45:16.399
<v Speaker 4>a lock. But I don't see how jd Vance boosts

0:45:16.480 --> 0:45:19.560
<v Speaker 4>Trump's chances in any way in November, and could potentially

0:45:19.800 --> 0:45:21.000
<v Speaker 4>in fact hurt them.

0:45:21.239 --> 0:45:24.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean that's my sense. But again, it just

0:45:24.160 --> 0:45:26.600
<v Speaker 1>seems like a calculus with no thought of growing the electorate.

0:45:26.680 --> 0:45:28.680
<v Speaker 1>But Trump has never had much interest in growing the

0:45:28.719 --> 0:45:29.399
<v Speaker 1>elector right.

0:45:29.640 --> 0:45:31.439
<v Speaker 4>No, I think what they're going to have to rely

0:45:31.560 --> 0:45:34.360
<v Speaker 4>on is the loyalist and churning out as many of

0:45:34.400 --> 0:45:37.040
<v Speaker 4>them as possible, you know, running kind of a fear

0:45:37.160 --> 0:45:41.680
<v Speaker 4>campaign based on immigration in particular and the economy as well.

0:45:41.680 --> 0:45:44.359
<v Speaker 4>To a certain extent, and hope that that's enough and

0:45:44.400 --> 0:45:46.520
<v Speaker 4>that they can get enough men and drive up enough

0:45:46.520 --> 0:45:48.520
<v Speaker 4>men and maybe get some men of color in there

0:45:48.560 --> 0:45:50.520
<v Speaker 4>that didn't support.

0:45:50.200 --> 0:45:51.040
<v Speaker 6>Them the last time.

0:45:51.280 --> 0:45:54.160
<v Speaker 4>I think we could potentially see a bigger gender gap

0:45:54.239 --> 0:45:56.359
<v Speaker 4>than we've ever seen. And there's been a gender gap

0:45:56.400 --> 0:45:59.399
<v Speaker 4>in politics and it's been growing, and I think that

0:45:59.400 --> 0:46:01.719
<v Speaker 4>that will only be exacerbated this year.

0:46:02.080 --> 0:46:03.680
<v Speaker 1>So talk to me about your book.

0:46:03.840 --> 0:46:06.239
<v Speaker 4>Yes, So, it came out last week. It's called You

0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:08.839
<v Speaker 4>Must Stand Up The Fight for Abortion Rights and Post

0:46:08.920 --> 0:46:12.520
<v Speaker 4>Dobbs America. It is the first year. It opens in

0:46:12.600 --> 0:46:16.200
<v Speaker 4>June twenty twenty two at a clinic in Tuscaloosa as

0:46:16.280 --> 0:46:19.399
<v Speaker 4>the Dobbs decision comes out, and it ends a year

0:46:19.480 --> 0:46:23.160
<v Speaker 4>later at that same clinic talking about kind of what

0:46:23.280 --> 0:46:28.960
<v Speaker 4>could be next. It's primary geographic settings along with Tuscaloosa, Alabama,

0:46:29.000 --> 0:46:32.839
<v Speaker 4>our Phoenix, Arizona to a slightly lesser extent Maryland, and

0:46:32.880 --> 0:46:37.280
<v Speaker 4>then also some chapters from places like Wisconsin, Kentucky, Massachusetts,

0:46:37.360 --> 0:46:40.919
<v Speaker 4>Ohio to just show the absolute chaos in the.

0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:42.640
<v Speaker 1>First year after Dobbs.

0:46:42.880 --> 0:46:47.040
<v Speaker 4>Told from the perspectives of doctors, healthcare providers, people working

0:46:47.040 --> 0:46:53.680
<v Speaker 4>at clinics, but also lawyers, students, moms, friends, everyday voters

0:46:53.760 --> 0:46:57.839
<v Speaker 4>who were mobilizing trying to protect abortion rights in kind

0:46:57.880 --> 0:47:00.319
<v Speaker 4>of that pivotal first year after we lost to the

0:47:00.360 --> 0:47:01.560
<v Speaker 4>federal right to an abortion.

0:47:01.960 --> 0:47:04.120
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes I take a moment to talk about how I

0:47:04.160 --> 0:47:06.719
<v Speaker 1>was right and glowed. This is one of them. I

0:47:06.840 --> 0:47:10.040
<v Speaker 1>was right, and I hate it when the Supreme Court

0:47:10.160 --> 0:47:14.520
<v Speaker 1>let SBA ride right when they took it on the

0:47:14.560 --> 0:47:18.760
<v Speaker 1>shadow dock it and did not overturn it in Texas.

0:47:18.960 --> 0:47:22.520
<v Speaker 1>When Texas overturned Row a year before the Supreme Court

0:47:22.600 --> 0:47:26.960
<v Speaker 1>officially put the knife in the legislation, what did you think?

0:47:27.000 --> 0:47:28.560
<v Speaker 1>Did you think it was the end? I thought it

0:47:28.600 --> 0:47:30.359
<v Speaker 1>was the end, but I'm very negative, so.

0:47:30.800 --> 0:47:33.240
<v Speaker 4>I also thought it was the end. I think anyone

0:47:33.360 --> 0:47:36.280
<v Speaker 4>working in this space, whether they were at a clinic

0:47:36.680 --> 0:47:39.880
<v Speaker 4>and in a clinical setting or you know, working on

0:47:39.960 --> 0:47:42.600
<v Speaker 4>policy at the national level, also thought it was the end.

0:47:43.120 --> 0:47:45.200
<v Speaker 4>The title of my book, You Must Stand Up is

0:47:45.239 --> 0:47:48.320
<v Speaker 4>from a doctor in Arizona, and it's from a blog

0:47:48.400 --> 0:47:51.080
<v Speaker 4>that she wrote in I believe it was twenty eighteen,

0:47:51.400 --> 0:47:53.080
<v Speaker 4>may have been twenty nineteen, but I think it was

0:47:53.120 --> 0:47:56.680
<v Speaker 4>twenty eighteen. So, you know, while the Dobbs decision in

0:47:56.719 --> 0:47:59.800
<v Speaker 4>the fall Row took many kind of rank and file

0:47:59.840 --> 0:48:03.279
<v Speaker 4>on the Americans by surprise, for the people who are

0:48:03.360 --> 0:48:06.120
<v Speaker 4>working in this space or in space is adjacent to

0:48:06.840 --> 0:48:11.000
<v Speaker 4>reproductive health. They saw this coming even before SB eight,

0:48:11.120 --> 0:48:14.960
<v Speaker 4>but certainly when the Supreme Court let sbight go into effect.

0:48:15.200 --> 0:48:17.759
<v Speaker 4>That is when, for example, the chapter I have set

0:48:17.800 --> 0:48:20.640
<v Speaker 4>in Massachusetts, which is really a chapter about how can

0:48:20.680 --> 0:48:24.360
<v Speaker 4>a state where the vast, vast majority of its residents

0:48:24.560 --> 0:48:27.879
<v Speaker 4>support abortion rights, how can they make sure that they're

0:48:27.880 --> 0:48:30.719
<v Speaker 4>delivering for the people in their state and giving them

0:48:30.719 --> 0:48:35.120
<v Speaker 4>what they want. Massachusetts SB eight was when they mobilized,

0:48:35.200 --> 0:48:37.799
<v Speaker 4>was when they got a coalition back together that had

0:48:37.840 --> 0:48:41.080
<v Speaker 4>worked on this issue before, because they thought, you know,

0:48:41.239 --> 0:48:43.960
<v Speaker 4>this is the end, and it doesn't matter that this

0:48:44.000 --> 0:48:46.359
<v Speaker 4>is in Texas, it doesn't matter that it's going to be,

0:48:46.719 --> 0:48:49.480
<v Speaker 4>you know, worse in red states. They're going to try

0:48:49.520 --> 0:48:52.000
<v Speaker 4>to come for people in Massachusetts too. And so they

0:48:52.000 --> 0:48:55.000
<v Speaker 4>got together and passed one of the strongest abortion provider

0:48:55.080 --> 0:48:56.480
<v Speaker 4>shield laws we have in this country.

0:48:56.520 --> 0:48:56.919
<v Speaker 6>Right now.

0:48:57.040 --> 0:49:01.000
<v Speaker 1>Yes, when you look at this, how this happened, What

0:49:01.080 --> 0:49:05.040
<v Speaker 1>do you think the greatest driver was of the push

0:49:05.200 --> 0:49:07.440
<v Speaker 1>to get rid of row overturning Row?

0:49:07.560 --> 0:49:10.480
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I think it really depends whether you're talking about

0:49:10.840 --> 0:49:15.279
<v Speaker 4>the average person who might oppose abortion or be represented

0:49:15.280 --> 0:49:17.000
<v Speaker 4>by some of the groups or some of the kind

0:49:17.040 --> 0:49:20.400
<v Speaker 4>of behind the scenes architects. There are many people in

0:49:20.400 --> 0:49:24.719
<v Speaker 4>this country, including women, who believe abortion is wrong, and

0:49:24.880 --> 0:49:27.680
<v Speaker 4>they you know, it has been a fifty year project

0:49:27.840 --> 0:49:31.960
<v Speaker 4>to overturn Row. The anti abortion movement wanted to establish

0:49:32.040 --> 0:49:35.240
<v Speaker 4>beetle personhood back when Roe was decided. That is still

0:49:35.280 --> 0:49:37.680
<v Speaker 4>their end goal, and they've been working for that, and

0:49:37.719 --> 0:49:40.000
<v Speaker 4>they truly believe that they are working on kind of

0:49:40.000 --> 0:49:43.480
<v Speaker 4>like the moral fight of their time. Now I am

0:49:43.520 --> 0:49:47.960
<v Speaker 4>not convinced. Let's say that a lot of the funders

0:49:48.120 --> 0:49:53.000
<v Speaker 4>of this are motivated by that same moral conviction necessarily

0:49:53.080 --> 0:49:55.880
<v Speaker 4>and a lot of arts behind the scenes. I think

0:49:55.960 --> 0:49:59.399
<v Speaker 4>what this is about is power. Who has power, who

0:49:59.400 --> 0:50:02.560
<v Speaker 4>can amass more power, who can take away power from

0:50:02.560 --> 0:50:05.480
<v Speaker 4>other people? And it's about politics. And you know, abortion

0:50:05.640 --> 0:50:08.120
<v Speaker 4>was not a political issue until the eighties and even

0:50:08.160 --> 0:50:10.439
<v Speaker 4>into the nineties. You know, it is when it really

0:50:10.480 --> 0:50:14.000
<v Speaker 4>took hold, and that was a story about power, right

0:50:14.080 --> 0:50:18.440
<v Speaker 4>they were reorganizing. It was a few Republican strategists who

0:50:18.440 --> 0:50:23.040
<v Speaker 4>were trying to make evangelicals a reliable voting block for

0:50:23.280 --> 0:50:27.680
<v Speaker 4>Republican candidates, and it's related to kind of the decline

0:50:27.960 --> 0:50:32.719
<v Speaker 4>in the acceptability of fighting for segregated schools. And they

0:50:32.760 --> 0:50:35.520
<v Speaker 4>came up with, you know, being anti abortion as a

0:50:35.560 --> 0:50:39.400
<v Speaker 4>new way to appeal to those voters. Now, that was

0:50:39.480 --> 0:50:42.200
<v Speaker 4>just about winning races, right, So it all comes back

0:50:42.239 --> 0:50:44.440
<v Speaker 4>to power, and so they knew if they kind of

0:50:44.520 --> 0:50:49.680
<v Speaker 4>combined that new voting block of Evangelical Christians with US

0:50:49.840 --> 0:50:54.759
<v Speaker 4>Catholics that had traditionally been Democrats or trended democrat, they

0:50:54.960 --> 0:50:58.600
<v Speaker 4>could get a lock on power. And so this is

0:50:58.640 --> 0:51:00.600
<v Speaker 4>a story about power, and this is story about what

0:51:00.640 --> 0:51:03.000
<v Speaker 4>it means to be an American and what rights you

0:51:03.080 --> 0:51:03.920
<v Speaker 4>have as an American.

0:51:04.400 --> 0:51:08.319
<v Speaker 1>So interesting and I think really important. There's so much

0:51:08.400 --> 0:51:12.800
<v Speaker 1>in this story, but what's the solution to the real problem.

0:51:13.080 --> 0:51:15.840
<v Speaker 4>So if you are someone who supports abortion rights and

0:51:15.840 --> 0:51:19.400
<v Speaker 4>would like to see something row like back in place,

0:51:19.960 --> 0:51:23.040
<v Speaker 4>that's kind of what my book is about. The second half.

0:51:23.080 --> 0:51:26.040
<v Speaker 4>It's people trying to figure out. I like to think

0:51:26.080 --> 0:51:29.120
<v Speaker 4>of it as the book is a story about democratic

0:51:29.200 --> 0:51:32.120
<v Speaker 4>erosion and how we got to a place where much

0:51:32.160 --> 0:51:34.560
<v Speaker 4>of the country has laws in place that the citizens

0:51:34.600 --> 0:51:38.640
<v Speaker 4>do not support. But also it's showing you people in

0:51:38.680 --> 0:51:42.160
<v Speaker 4>a variety of roles who have figured out what their

0:51:42.360 --> 0:51:46.040
<v Speaker 4>role is to play in strengthening our democracy. So it's

0:51:46.120 --> 0:51:51.520
<v Speaker 4>everything from doctors and even medical students realizing that it's

0:51:51.560 --> 0:51:55.759
<v Speaker 4>not an option to not be an advocate or an activist.

0:51:56.400 --> 0:51:59.480
<v Speaker 4>It's actually an essential part of your practice if you're

0:51:59.480 --> 0:52:01.560
<v Speaker 4>going to be an bgyn and want to take care

0:52:01.600 --> 0:52:06.760
<v Speaker 4>of patients. It is young mothers in Kentucky who found

0:52:06.760 --> 0:52:09.560
<v Speaker 4>out about how they could get involved through a Jewish

0:52:09.560 --> 0:52:13.800
<v Speaker 4>women's group and started trying to defeat a ballot measure

0:52:13.840 --> 0:52:16.800
<v Speaker 4>there that would have you know, abortion is already banned

0:52:16.800 --> 0:52:19.560
<v Speaker 4>in Kentucky, but there was an effort to actually add

0:52:19.560 --> 0:52:21.719
<v Speaker 4>that to the constitution. They were able to push back

0:52:21.719 --> 0:52:24.120
<v Speaker 4>on that amendment and defeat it. They actually took to

0:52:24.160 --> 0:52:26.279
<v Speaker 4>the streets, one of them for the first time, to

0:52:26.320 --> 0:52:28.920
<v Speaker 4>go canvassing and door knocking for that issue. I think

0:52:28.960 --> 0:52:31.359
<v Speaker 4>if you talk to the people who the legal strategists,

0:52:31.480 --> 0:52:34.000
<v Speaker 4>they say that we're in a kind of spaghetti at

0:52:34.040 --> 0:52:38.040
<v Speaker 4>the wall moment where, you know, the abortion rights movement

0:52:38.160 --> 0:52:42.200
<v Speaker 4>on a national level has been accused by some of

0:52:42.200 --> 0:52:45.640
<v Speaker 4>being kind of gatekeepers on strategy for the past couple decades,

0:52:46.040 --> 0:52:50.200
<v Speaker 4>and you're seeing kind of the universe of organizations bringing

0:52:50.239 --> 0:52:53.279
<v Speaker 4>really high profile cases expand beyond kind of the one

0:52:53.360 --> 0:52:55.440
<v Speaker 4>or two usual groups that were doing that and the

0:52:55.480 --> 0:52:58.400
<v Speaker 4>build up to Dobbs. A lot of people across the

0:52:58.440 --> 0:53:01.480
<v Speaker 4>political spectrum, include being a main character in my book,

0:53:01.680 --> 0:53:04.040
<v Speaker 4>have started likening the period we're in right now to

0:53:04.080 --> 0:53:09.480
<v Speaker 4>prohibition right and looking the repeal of prohibition as a

0:53:09.560 --> 0:53:13.520
<v Speaker 4>template for how we could restore abortion rights in this country.

0:53:13.840 --> 0:53:17.360
<v Speaker 4>Because what we're seeing with these ballot measures right across

0:53:17.400 --> 0:53:20.279
<v Speaker 4>the country, any time a ballot measure has been put

0:53:20.320 --> 0:53:23.839
<v Speaker 4>before the people, abortion rights has won. There are ten

0:53:23.920 --> 0:53:26.800
<v Speaker 4>states that right now that are going to be voting

0:53:27.040 --> 0:53:31.800
<v Speaker 4>on abortion rights ballot measures in November. And while that's

0:53:31.880 --> 0:53:34.040
<v Speaker 4>great for the people in those states, and the reason

0:53:34.040 --> 0:53:37.719
<v Speaker 4>they're doing it is because voters have realized, like legislation

0:53:37.840 --> 0:53:40.480
<v Speaker 4>can be fleeting, it can be overturned, it can be

0:53:41.320 --> 0:53:43.359
<v Speaker 4>the best way to protect a right is to have

0:53:43.440 --> 0:53:46.560
<v Speaker 4>it in your constitution. While that's great for the people

0:53:46.600 --> 0:53:49.960
<v Speaker 4>in the states who have a citizen referred ballot measure process,

0:53:50.040 --> 0:53:52.360
<v Speaker 4>not every state has that, So in Alabama that's not

0:53:52.400 --> 0:53:55.280
<v Speaker 4>an option for them. And so when I was talking

0:53:55.320 --> 0:53:57.000
<v Speaker 4>to one of the women who works at the clinic

0:53:57.080 --> 0:53:59.640
<v Speaker 4>in Alabama. She was saying, I actually think you know,

0:54:00.120 --> 0:54:03.400
<v Speaker 4>ultimately what we need is a constitutional convention and anment

0:54:03.480 --> 0:54:07.160
<v Speaker 4>to the US Constitution that is related to bodily autonomy.

0:54:07.280 --> 0:54:10.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think that's right. Thank you so much for

0:54:10.120 --> 0:54:10.719
<v Speaker 1>joining us.

0:54:11.000 --> 0:54:16.040
<v Speaker 4>Thank you, No, no moment good.

0:54:16.520 --> 0:54:19.000
<v Speaker 3>My moment of fuckery is one of these classic high

0:54:19.160 --> 0:54:24.520
<v Speaker 3>order mistakes. New Coke Land War in Asia, Parachute Pants.

0:54:24.920 --> 0:54:27.799
<v Speaker 3>The magas have decided that they're going to take on

0:54:28.200 --> 0:54:31.080
<v Speaker 3>the cultural juggernaut that we all know and love. S

0:54:31.160 --> 0:54:34.160
<v Speaker 3>Taylor Swift. I welcome this decision on their part because

0:54:34.239 --> 0:54:37.560
<v Speaker 3>it is truly one of the dumbest things I've ever

0:54:37.600 --> 0:54:40.279
<v Speaker 3>heard in my life. The idea that jadvancewroled and said,

0:54:40.480 --> 0:54:43.200
<v Speaker 3>I don't think anyone's going to be persuaded by a

0:54:43.239 --> 0:54:46.600
<v Speaker 3>billionaire entertainer, like, bitch, have you met your boss?

0:54:48.440 --> 0:54:51.000
<v Speaker 1>But he's not a billionaire. That's somewhat difference.

0:54:51.280 --> 0:54:53.680
<v Speaker 3>That is an effering and a distinction. But look, she's

0:54:53.719 --> 0:54:56.160
<v Speaker 3>going to be a force multiplier in this campaign. It's

0:54:56.200 --> 0:54:58.120
<v Speaker 3>not going to decide the campaign, but she's going to

0:54:58.120 --> 0:55:00.319
<v Speaker 3>be a major force multiplier in the campaign. It is

0:55:00.360 --> 0:55:02.319
<v Speaker 3>going to make a big difference because there is a

0:55:02.400 --> 0:55:04.920
<v Speaker 3>generation of young girls who grew up with Taylor Swift

0:55:05.000 --> 0:55:07.480
<v Speaker 3>who are now voting age this generation of their moms

0:55:07.600 --> 0:55:09.399
<v Speaker 3>who grew up with Taylor Swift and taking their daughters

0:55:09.400 --> 0:55:12.160
<v Speaker 3>to Taylor Swift. You know, Andrew Breitbart was not right

0:55:12.160 --> 0:55:14.600
<v Speaker 3>about a lot of things, but he said one time

0:55:14.960 --> 0:55:18.239
<v Speaker 3>that politics is downstream of culture, and that's why Republicans

0:55:18.239 --> 0:55:20.600
<v Speaker 3>are always so desperate to get any kind of star.

0:55:21.120 --> 0:55:24.560
<v Speaker 3>And even like these d minus celebrities, We've got Scott Poe,

0:55:26.280 --> 0:55:29.720
<v Speaker 3>but she is the biggest cultural icon of our time.

0:55:30.000 --> 0:55:33.480
<v Speaker 3>She is a big deal. And their sense of denial

0:55:33.600 --> 0:55:37.040
<v Speaker 3>and despair about this is just sweet, sweet maga teers

0:55:37.040 --> 0:55:40.640
<v Speaker 3>flowing in a beautiful river of fuckery. They're attacking her,

0:55:40.920 --> 0:55:44.920
<v Speaker 3>they're bitching about her, they're complaining, I'm here for all

0:55:45.040 --> 0:55:46.440
<v Speaker 3>of it, all of it.

0:55:46.680 --> 0:55:50.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it does seem like the party that is at

0:55:50.880 --> 0:55:54.840
<v Speaker 1>war with women right as at war about Troyce.

0:55:55.280 --> 0:55:57.640
<v Speaker 3>I mean, why not go to war with the most

0:55:57.719 --> 0:56:01.359
<v Speaker 3>beloved female pop star. Oh, I don't know of you know,

0:56:01.400 --> 0:56:05.120
<v Speaker 3>since Madonna. It is a painful I'd argue of all time.

0:56:05.280 --> 0:56:07.160
<v Speaker 3>You can make the all time argument. Yeah, you could

0:56:07.239 --> 0:56:08.000
<v Speaker 3>you absolutely could.

0:56:08.360 --> 0:56:10.719
<v Speaker 1>She does a thing that Madonna doesn't do, which is

0:56:10.920 --> 0:56:13.959
<v Speaker 1>she's wholesome. Yeah, so here they are going to war

0:56:14.120 --> 0:56:17.480
<v Speaker 1>with the wholesome, self made American billionaire.

0:56:17.640 --> 0:56:22.640
<v Speaker 3>I'm pro Madonna and I vote, but I take your point. Yeah.

0:56:22.680 --> 0:56:25.279
<v Speaker 1>If she were even the slightest bit Maga, they would

0:56:25.320 --> 0:56:28.160
<v Speaker 1>be obsessed with her, right, She's the dream. Remember the

0:56:28.239 --> 0:56:31.439
<v Speaker 1>news cycle when they thought when they discovered she wasn't

0:56:31.480 --> 0:56:32.720
<v Speaker 1>Maga and they were so upset.

0:56:33.120 --> 0:56:35.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well now they're so upset at a level that

0:56:35.719 --> 0:56:39.160
<v Speaker 3>makes that look like they couldn't find a parking space.

0:56:39.440 --> 0:56:42.080
<v Speaker 3>They are losing their minds on her. And please, guys,

0:56:42.320 --> 0:56:46.320
<v Speaker 3>I want you to continue to call her a dumb

0:56:46.400 --> 0:56:49.720
<v Speaker 3>slut and call her a failure and call her stupid,

0:56:50.000 --> 0:56:53.080
<v Speaker 3>because nothing could ever go wrong with the Swifties finding

0:56:53.080 --> 0:56:55.560
<v Speaker 3>out about what Mauga's doing to Taylor. Nothing could ever

0:56:55.640 --> 0:56:58.160
<v Speaker 3>go wrong there. Guys, y'all just keep tearing it up.

0:56:58.320 --> 0:57:00.640
<v Speaker 3>You just keep criticizing her all you want, Just go for it.

0:57:00.760 --> 0:57:04.360
<v Speaker 3>I await your capitulation on the field of battle because

0:57:04.800 --> 0:57:07.360
<v Speaker 3>she is undefeated.

0:57:07.640 --> 0:57:12.880
<v Speaker 1>Thank you. Rick Wilson, all right, all right, Jesse Cannon.

0:57:13.040 --> 0:57:16.919
<v Speaker 2>Molly Jong Fast, jd Vance he's really showing that he's

0:57:16.960 --> 0:57:19.120
<v Speaker 2>a member of the Trump administration because he's taken on

0:57:19.160 --> 0:57:21.040
<v Speaker 2>Trump's trade he let the mask slip.

0:57:21.680 --> 0:57:26.160
<v Speaker 1>No, I disagree. I actually think that by admitting you

0:57:26.240 --> 0:57:29.840
<v Speaker 1>were lying, that's like not what you're supposed to do.

0:57:30.040 --> 0:57:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Like you like, what Trump would have done is he

0:57:33.040 --> 0:57:36.240
<v Speaker 1>would have said, yeah, no, that's what I said. You know,

0:57:36.320 --> 0:57:39.960
<v Speaker 1>something along the lines of Paul Mattaford right where you'd

0:57:39.960 --> 0:57:43.400
<v Speaker 1>make enough confusion so that you never really admit that

0:57:43.440 --> 0:57:47.080
<v Speaker 1>you're lying, even if everyone knows you're lying. This was actually,

0:57:47.360 --> 0:57:50.240
<v Speaker 1>I think like one of the I mean, I would

0:57:50.320 --> 0:57:53.240
<v Speaker 1>say it rare, but it's all missteps with Jada Vance,

0:57:53.400 --> 0:57:57.240
<v Speaker 1>Dana Bash did a really excellent job of asking him

0:57:57.560 --> 0:58:01.800
<v Speaker 1>a very specific question and then following up.

0:58:02.680 --> 0:58:06.240
<v Speaker 8>The American media totally ignored this stuff until Donald Trump

0:58:06.240 --> 0:58:09.120
<v Speaker 8>and I start talking about cat means. If I have to,

0:58:09.480 --> 0:58:13.560
<v Speaker 8>it's just mean, create stories so that the American media

0:58:13.600 --> 0:58:16.640
<v Speaker 8>actually pays attention to the suffering of the American people.

0:58:16.880 --> 0:58:19.040
<v Speaker 8>Then that's what I'm gonna do. Dana, Because you just

0:58:19.040 --> 0:58:21.400
<v Speaker 8>said that you're creating the public policy.

0:58:21.720 --> 0:58:23.520
<v Speaker 6>Sorry, you just said that you're creating the story.

0:58:23.680 --> 0:58:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Is that, Dana, you just said that this is a

0:58:26.880 --> 0:58:31.080
<v Speaker 1>story that you created, so that the eating dog re acting.

0:58:31.440 --> 0:58:34.920
<v Speaker 8>Not we are creating, we are, Dana. It comes from

0:58:35.040 --> 0:58:37.840
<v Speaker 8>first hand accounts from my constituents. I say that we're

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<v Speaker 8>creating a story, meaning we're creating the American media focusing

0:58:41.080 --> 0:58:41.360
<v Speaker 8>on it.

0:58:41.480 --> 0:58:44.560
<v Speaker 1>What I thought was really interesting about this was obviously

0:58:44.600 --> 0:58:48.680
<v Speaker 1>it's not happening, but it's also they finally just you know,

0:58:48.760 --> 0:58:52.840
<v Speaker 1>for whatever reason, but Vans couldn't keep it going. And

0:58:52.880 --> 0:58:58.640
<v Speaker 1>then Mike DeLine, who remembers the governor of Ohio and

0:58:58.840 --> 0:59:03.080
<v Speaker 1>ran about twenty points ahead of Vance, even though Vance's

0:59:03.120 --> 0:59:08.440
<v Speaker 1>campaign had to pour money into it. Dwine actually really

0:59:08.640 --> 0:59:12.880
<v Speaker 1>just set him, you know, really, he said, I think

0:59:12.880 --> 0:59:15.080
<v Speaker 1>it's unfortunate that this came up. But let me tell

0:59:15.120 --> 0:59:17.960
<v Speaker 1>you what we do now. We know that Haitians in

0:59:18.080 --> 0:59:21.120
<v Speaker 1>Springfield are legal. They came to Springfield to work. Ohio

0:59:21.840 --> 0:59:24.240
<v Speaker 1>is on the move in Springfield has made it great.

0:59:24.720 --> 0:59:28.160
<v Speaker 1>The point is that this was meant to be a

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<v Speaker 1>sort of standard other the way Trump often does it,

0:59:31.160 --> 0:59:33.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, the same as what he did to Muslims,

0:59:33.640 --> 0:59:35.960
<v Speaker 1>the same as what he did to Mexicans, the same

0:59:35.960 --> 0:59:38.840
<v Speaker 1>as what he did to all these other ethnic groups.

0:59:38.880 --> 0:59:43.160
<v Speaker 1>He targets, but instead in this one, they just went

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<v Speaker 1>too far and they made up a completely insane lie

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<v Speaker 1>which is now debunked, and that is our moment of

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<v Speaker 1>fuck Ray. That's it for this episode of Fast Politics.

0:59:57.680 --> 1:00:00.600
<v Speaker 1>Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday to hear the

1:00:00.640 --> 1:00:04.080
<v Speaker 1>best minds in politics makes sense of all this chaos.

1:00:04.360 --> 1:00:06.920
<v Speaker 1>If you enjoyed what you've heard, please send it to

1:00:06.960 --> 1:00:10.360
<v Speaker 1>a friend and keep the conversation going. And again, thanks

1:00:10.360 --> 1:00:11.000
<v Speaker 1>for listening.