1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Live from our Nations, All Talk here in Washington, d C. 2 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: Turns to President elect Joe Biden's administration. Speaker Pelosi has 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: beat the political odds and reclaimed the galvel. We're talking 4 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: right now about jockeying amongst Republicans, Bloomberg Sound On, the insiders, 5 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 1: the influencers, the inside. Biden has promised again and again 6 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 1: a cable to the unite the country. The only way 7 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 1: things happened if Republicans and Democrats work together. Unfortunately for 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: President elect Biden, this is a time when he's getting 9 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: the most supportant he's going to get in the Democratic Party. 10 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Sound On with Levin Shirley on Bloomberg Radio. 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: House Democrats to open Trump's impeachment Wednesday unless Pence acts. Meanwhile, 12 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: my exclusive interview with Dr Deborah Burke's how did the 13 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: events of last week impact the vaccination roll out? A 14 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: lot to get through. We begin tonight, of course, with 15 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: the big developments coming from the nation's capital. Diving into 16 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 1: my Bloomberg terminal, my colleagues Billy House, Eric Wassen, and 17 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: Stephen T. Tennis report. House Democrats Monday introduced a resolution 18 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,919 Speaker 1: to impeach President Donald Trump for a second time, setting 19 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: up a vote this week unless Vice President Mike pens 20 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: uses his constitutional authority to remove the presidents. A majority 21 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:18,479 Speaker 1: of the Democratic controlled House has signed on to the resolution, 22 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: led by Representatives David Cicilini, Jamie Raskin, and Ted lou 23 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: charging Trump with inciting the insurrection at the Capitol on 24 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: January six. It seeks to both remove him from the 25 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: presidency and prevent him from ever holding office again. We've 26 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: got sound on this topic. That was the talk of 27 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: the town all throughout the weekend. First up, Senator Pat 28 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: Toomey on Fox. Here's the Republican from Pennsylvania. Does not 29 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: look as though there is the will or the consensus 30 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: to exercise they Amendment option. And I don't think there's 31 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: time to do an impeachment. There's ten days left before 32 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 1: the president leaves. Anyway, I think the best thing would 33 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: be a resignation. As Republicans continue to call on President 34 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: Trump to resign, Democrats are suggesting another course of action, 35 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: and we've got sound on that as well. Here's Congresswoman 36 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: Alexandria Accacio Cortes to ABC. Every minute and every hour 37 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: that he is in office represents a clear and present danger, 38 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: not just to the United States Congress, but frankly to 39 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: the country. We have to understand that what happened on 40 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 1: Wednesday was insurrection against the United States. Meanwhile, legal scholars 41 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: are openly debating about if there is another impeachment, as 42 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 1: is likely, what would the timetable be for a trial 43 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: in the Senate. Mick mulvaney was asked about that on 44 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,519 Speaker 1: Fox Here's sound on that last year, the impeacient was 45 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: a witch hunt. It was a political thing. They were 46 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: looking for an excuse to impeach the president forever. Now 47 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: it's different, and I think it will be looked at 48 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: very differently by members of both the House and the Senate. 49 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: Let Sir Munson as a principal at the government relations 50 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: firm b GR Group, as well as a former senior 51 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 1: advisor to the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee under Chairman Bob Corker. 52 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 1: And Jennie Sean Zano is a Bloomberg political contributor. She 53 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: is an Iona College professor and the author of the 54 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,080 Speaker 1: new book American Democracy and Crisis. I cannot wait to 55 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,679 Speaker 1: read it, Jeannie, but first let me get your reaction 56 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 1: about the path of a second impeachment and the timetable 57 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 1: for a trial likely now after President elect Biden is 58 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: sworn in. Yeah, there there is real division amongst scholars 59 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: and legal scholars on this question. People like Cats Cass Sunstein, 60 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: who are respecting awful lot from Harvard who say, you know, 61 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: impeachment is really only for current office holders. There's others 62 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: who say, and I happen to agree with this school 63 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: of thought, as long as he was impeached prior to leaving, 64 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: the trial could be held after he left office. But 65 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: of course that raises a host of challenge is for 66 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: the incoming administration, and the question then is do you 67 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,880 Speaker 1: put it off a hundred days as was suggested over 68 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: the weekend, do you hold it right away, which means 69 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: the administration can't deal with other pressing issues like you're 70 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: going to be talking about today the pandemic. So a 71 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: lot goes into sort of the thought process on this. 72 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: I think he could be impeached and the trial could 73 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 1: be held after constitutionally, which would allow them to make 74 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,679 Speaker 1: the case that he can't be um, that he can't 75 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,679 Speaker 1: serve again. But I do understand that there's real real 76 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: division among scholars on this. Gennie let me follow up 77 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: with you here, because in terms of the purpose of 78 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: a trial, it is of course to to find fact 79 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: and to get things, for lack of a better word, 80 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: submitted for the record, for there to be a declarative narrative, 81 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: for there to be an investigation, all of which are 82 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: incredibly important. When as I spoke to one source today 83 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: who told me schools nearby schools last this week were 84 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 1: evacuated because of the bombs that were found in the 85 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: d n S. Outside of the d n C and 86 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,160 Speaker 1: the r n C. There is still an investigation and 87 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: active investigation into who fundraised for this, who advertised for this, 88 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: and so how important is it that there actually be 89 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: of process that is followed through Genie for this to 90 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: come to completion. It's absolutely critical, and this is a 91 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: major concern I have. You know, you see this push 92 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: understandably so given all the circumstances that and what people 93 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: lived through last week, and of course the videos coming 94 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 1: out this weekend stunning for somebody like me who wasn't 95 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: in d C like you were, Kevin, to see it, 96 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: and you know, just to imagine what these people experienced. 97 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 1: You want there to be swift justice, but you also 98 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: need there to be thorough justice. You need to uncover 99 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: the facts of what exactly what did and did not happen, 100 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: who was responsible, and those people need to be brought 101 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,279 Speaker 1: to justice. One concern I have about this time table 102 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: in doing this quickly, is that we won't get all 103 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,000 Speaker 1: those facts on the table and the people who should 104 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: be held responsible won't be held responsible. Now, of course, 105 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,680 Speaker 1: impeachment is not a the way we do it. Legally, 106 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: these people can be held legally responsible barring some sort 107 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: of pardon at the federal level, and of course impeachment 108 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: is a political remedy for this. It really is, again 109 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: just a very quickly moving story. And one of the 110 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: developments that we are monitoring this hour is the Republican 111 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: House Caucus conference call and which GOP leader Kevin McCarthy 112 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: is He is saying reportedly that President Trump does bear 113 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: some responsibility for last week's riot. Again, remarkable developments in 114 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: terms of where the Republican Party, where the leaders of 115 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: the Republican Party are at. Based upon my own reporting 116 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: today and talking with at least two Republican sources who 117 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: are key advisors to prominent individuals in the party, they're 118 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: all trying to work through where the Republican Party goes 119 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: goes in which direction, and which turning point, for lack 120 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: of a better word, they should respond to, and who 121 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: in fact is leading the Republican Party today. Lester months 122 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: into course, is with us. He's a principal government relations 123 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: firm b GR Group. He's worked for top Republicans. Lester, 124 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: what are you hearing from your Republican colleague, staffers, senior advisors, 125 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: legislative directors. LA's about the direction of the party and 126 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: the mood of the party this Monday. It's a great question, Kevin. 127 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: I think people are all over the place. They're they're 128 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: unified in their shock and horror over what happened last 129 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: week and their concerns about about safety, of course, but 130 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: politically speaking, in the next steps are are are not 131 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: clear cut for Republicans. I think there is a sense 132 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: among a lot of people that some has to be 133 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: a reaction to what happened. You can't let it stand unanswered. 134 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: What is essentially an attack on the legislative branch by 135 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: the leader of the executive branch um, you know, metaphysically, 136 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: if not actually physically himself. So I think there's a 137 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: lot of starting out that has to happen, and it 138 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: has to happen quickly. Members in the House, you know, 139 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: as they come back together early this week, are going 140 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: to look at each other face to face or perhaps 141 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: over virtual calls and have to talk about what their 142 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: constituents are saying, what their principles are, and uh, the 143 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: way forward for the party. It's a really it's a 144 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: real crisis in the party. Notably, the Senate is not 145 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:50,199 Speaker 1: in session this week. They're not coming back until next week, 146 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: so I think we're we're likely to see a more 147 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: a less frantic, and hopefully more sober and sensible answer 148 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: from the Senate next week. Right now, in the House, 149 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,839 Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of charm, there's a lot of confusion, 150 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,559 Speaker 1: there's a lot of voices, uh, and I think they're 151 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 1: gonna have they're gonna they're gonna struggle with coming up 152 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:11,400 Speaker 1: with a path forward for the party. Right now, and 153 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 1: even Lester, as you were making those comments, a red 154 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: headline crossing my Bloomberg terminal. Right now, Fox News is 155 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: reporting that acting DHS Secretary Chad Wolf is stepping down, 156 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 1: and in a letter to d HF d h S employees, 157 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: he writes, quote I am saddened to take this step, 158 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:31,439 Speaker 1: as it was my intention to serve the department until 159 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: the end of the administration. Again, Fox News headline crossing 160 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: my Bloomberg terminal acting head of Homeland Security, Uh wolf 161 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: is Chad wolf is stepping down Lester months and another 162 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: person Yeah thought on that. I'm not sure that's a 163 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: great move by Chad Wolfe. But I'll tell you in 164 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: in agencies right now, in the executive branch, there are 165 00:09:57,679 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: a number of political appointees who would like to leave. 166 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: They would like to signal their their outrage over what 167 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: happened last week, and they are being urged by career 168 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 1: folks not to leave because the career folks are concerned 169 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: that they would be replaced by people, uh who are 170 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: who are less well grounded in reality. If you follow me, no, 171 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:22,640 Speaker 1: I do. And it's a real pressure on these folks 172 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 1: to be present and to make good decisions. And I'm 173 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: talking about Trump political appointees to stay and try and 174 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: do the right thing for these last ten days. And folks, 175 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 1: in terms of the if it sounds that you almost 176 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 1: can't follow that, I get it. But that the dynamic 177 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: that Less just explained is the situation of so many 178 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: Republican staffers in this moment. Countless, virtually every single source 179 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 1: that I've spoken to on the Republican staffer front since 180 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 1: last Wednesday is in the predicaments. For lack of a 181 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: better word, and I it's the wrong word, Lester, that 182 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: you just outlined quickly in thirty seconds Genie, before I 183 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 1: got to jump to to a break. I mean, I'm 184 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: up against a hard stop here. I mean, you're you're 185 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 1: response to to what the situation of many of these 186 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: appointees is right today. Yeah, I mean, Lester and you 187 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: both bring up an excellent point, which is, you know, 188 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: not just who is going to replace these people, which 189 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: is important enough, but in my mind, you're talking about 190 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: the defense of the United States as you have this 191 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: kind of turnover at this late date. How insecure does 192 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: that leave us in the wake of what we saw 193 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: the other day in terms of what happened with the 194 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,079 Speaker 1: Soviet breaking into many of our systems, the Soviet Union obviously, 195 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: the breach on the Capitol, and so many things that 196 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: have gone on. I do think there are real questions 197 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: is terms of our security, both internally and externally, and 198 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: these don't help all right, Coming up, we're gonna talk 199 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: much more about this, plus my exclusive interview about how 200 00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: the events of last week impacted the vaccination roll out 201 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: with Dr Deborah Burks. I'm Kevin Sirelli. This is Bloomberg. 202 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:21,079 Speaker 1: You're listening to Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin Shirley on 203 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. I'm Kevin Cirelli, Chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg 204 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:28,760 Speaker 1: Television and for Bloomberg Radio. Coming up, my exclusive interview 205 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: with Dr Deborah Burke's on an update for the vaccination rollout. Meanwhile, 206 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,719 Speaker 1: we are following multiple fronts still on Capitol Hill this 207 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 1: evening as Republicans in the House gathered on a conference 208 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: call in order to assess the situation as we are 209 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: now just a day and a half away from their 210 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: likely being another impeachment vote in the House of Representatives, 211 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: and it will be fascinating to see the split in 212 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: the Republican Party and whether or not moderate Republicans vote 213 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: to impeach again. The biggest legal variable tonight is trying 214 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: to work through whether or not a Senate a Senate 215 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: impeachment trial will occur after President Elect Joe Biden is 216 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: sworn into office. That's the legal constitutional fight, not even 217 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: fight that that that's being explored this evening that we 218 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:29,839 Speaker 1: will continue to way uh closely, to monitor closely, especially 219 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: with the Senate not being in Washington, d C. They're 220 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 1: not convening, so Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell people still 221 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 1: wondering what Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell will do. Obviously, 222 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: we will keep you posted as that news breaks. Joining 223 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: me for the hour, Bloomberg political contributor Jeanie shan Zeno 224 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: of Iona College, professor and the author of the new 225 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: book American Democracy and Crisis. In Lester months in principle 226 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,160 Speaker 1: of government relations firm b GR Group previously worked for 227 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 1: the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee under Chairman Bob Corker. Lester, 228 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: I was looking at the headlines when I was prepping 229 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: for for this evening show, and when I knew that 230 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: you were going to be on, I thought, I have 231 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: to get what I think, unfortunately, is an angle to 232 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: this past week that we haven't spent enough time talking about. 233 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: And that is what image America is projecting to the 234 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 1: world this week. And as Bloomer has reported, I've got 235 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: it right up in front of me on my terminal. 236 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: The World Health Organization team is set for a China 237 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: trip this week and to meet with China officials from 238 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: the World Health Organization to go over what happened with 239 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. But lester as the images of last week's 240 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: insurrection on Capitol Hill, the videos play out on social media, 241 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: the horror, the tragedy very real. What image from all 242 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: of your experience in the geopolitical world did America project 243 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: last week? Well, Levin, it does have an impact. You know. 244 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 1: One of the things the United States likes to do 245 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: in the developing world, which I think is as a 246 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: positive thing, is promote democracy and human rights, promotes the 247 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: promote the values we believe in, the values that we 248 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: think make America a special place. The events of last 249 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 1: week do make that a much a much harder task, 250 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: and so our diplomats are our agents abroad, our development professionals, 251 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: their jobs advocating for for our values got got much 252 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: much more difficult last week. One of one of the 253 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: things that I saw that was pretty telling was a 254 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: tweet from the President of Zimbabwe, Emerson Montagua, who is 255 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: who is no democrat, He's a human rights abuser. He 256 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,600 Speaker 1: does all kinds of terrible, nasty things, so bad in fact, 257 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 1: that even the Trump administration sanctions him. He's he's calling 258 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: for an end to those sanctions because he's according to him, 259 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: I don't agree with them, but he can now say, Hey, 260 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: wh who are they to judge me? Look what's going 261 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: on in Washington. There's no way they should be allowed 262 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: to punish poor little Zimbabwe when when they behave that 263 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: way and there's there's a little bit of truth in 264 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: what he's saying, and that's that's terrible, and it's shocking, 265 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: and it's and it's very regrettable. Can you before I 266 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: bring in Genie to this, can you explain d horror 267 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: about what those images mean? Two individuals serving around the world, 268 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: in addition to the brave men and women serving in 269 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: the military, but also at embassies all around the world. Lester, Sure, 270 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: these are these are Americans who are you know, perhaps 271 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: they don't have combat boots on, but some of them 272 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: are serving in very difficult environments in countries where the 273 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: standard of living is not terrific. Where they're in they're 274 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: almost on half aground. They're advancing American interests, they're promoting 275 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: our values, they're they're living a relatively difficult life for 276 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: their country, their public servants, and and they're this, this 277 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: makes their this makes their jobs so much harder for 278 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: for an ambassador or or senior diplomat, and then go 279 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: to their host country and say, you know, I've we've 280 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: got concerns about your democratcratic procedures, or concerns about corruption, 281 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 1: or concerns about the way you're treating the human rights 282 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,160 Speaker 1: of your own people. It's it's very it's much more 283 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: difficult to make that case now after what we saw 284 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:38,719 Speaker 1: last week, and and unless there's a real consequence in Washington, 285 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,640 Speaker 1: frankly for what the President said and what his allies 286 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: did on Capitol Hill, that that job is going to 287 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: be more and more difficult. And let's let's be very 288 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: realistic here. We've got a euro pere competitor in China 289 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:54,239 Speaker 1: that does not share our values. They're going to exploit this. 290 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: They're already explaining it in Hong Kong, where fifty plus 291 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: democratic activists have been a stood uh this, this is 292 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: this is going to make it more and more challenging 293 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,000 Speaker 1: to advance advance our interests around the world, which you know, 294 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: I have a direct impact on our prosperity. We need 295 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: to advance our interests around the world to maintain our 296 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: standard of living here in the United States. The job 297 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: just became much harder. Joe Biden's going to have to 298 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: wrestle with that when he takes off Genie quickly unfortunately. 299 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: I mean, you hear that, and it seems like there 300 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: has to be significant changes, But there definitely does. And 301 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: this is not just what happened in the last week. 302 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: Let's not forget as as far back as before the 303 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,440 Speaker 1: last election, we had data at a Pew Research Center 304 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: showing that amongst our closest allies, the views of the 305 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: United States are at an all time low, and that 306 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: continues to get worse in the last few days. Really 307 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 1: important point coming up next, Dr Devor Burke's I'm Kevin CURRELLI, 308 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: Chief Washington correspondent from Bloomberg Television and for Bloomberg Radio. 309 00:18:54,359 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Sound On with Kevin 310 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: Surreley on Bloomberg Radio. My name is Kevin Sirelli on 311 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: the chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and for Bloomberg Radio. 312 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: Coming up, an exclusive conversation with Dr Deborah Burke's. Earlier 313 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: this afternoon, I spoke with Dr Deborah Burke. She, of course, 314 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: is the coronavirus Response Coordinator at the U. S States Apartment, 315 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: and I asked her about how the events over the 316 00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 1: last week have impacted the ability for her and her 317 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: team to do their jobs. Let's roll the sound on that. Well. 318 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 1: I mean, the most important thing is we are focused 319 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,600 Speaker 1: on the virus all the time. But of course any 320 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: kind of disruption like this that really pushes people to 321 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: the limit increases more anxiety. It's difficult for everyone, um, 322 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,360 Speaker 1: difficult for Americans year, and difficult for Americans around the globe. 323 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,240 Speaker 1: We've tried to stay very focused on working with the 324 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: States to really combat the virus, but I think it 325 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: was a shock to everyone. And as you look forward 326 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: in terms of vaccine distribution, Dr Burke's, where are we 327 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: right now on the vaccination front and making sure that 328 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: every American can get a vaccine? You know, it's really 329 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: a really important question right now because I know you 330 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: can see what's happening. They really explosion of cases that 331 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: we saw in the Northern Plain States and the Rocky 332 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: Mountain States in the September October time frame has moved 333 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: into the more populous states of California and across the 334 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: Sun Belt into Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, Kentucky, Tennessee. 335 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: And this is really a very important time that states 336 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: both increase their mitigation because the rate of spread is 337 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: much higher with this current fall surged into winter, serch 338 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,640 Speaker 1: and vaccination and ensuring vaccination both of our frontline healthcare 339 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:03,200 Speaker 1: workers but also particularly vulnerable Americans over sixty five will 340 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 1: be essential. And we can see now certain states are 341 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:09,920 Speaker 1: having great success in moving forward. We see West Virginia 342 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:13,359 Speaker 1: really UM immunizing almost six to seven percent of their 343 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: adult population UM focused on really the vulnerable individuals as 344 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: well as healthcare workers. But we also see a really 345 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: good healthcare worker immunization program in North and South Dakota. 346 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,800 Speaker 1: So we're trying to bring all of that information together, 347 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: really from the operational aspects in the field, and get 348 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: that out to all governors so they can learn from 349 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: one another. What are some states that and I don't 350 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,880 Speaker 1: really want to politicize this, but what are some states 351 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,719 Speaker 1: that are struggling right now or that are in the 352 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 1: middle of reversing course so to speak, to follow states 353 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 1: that have have cracked the code for lack of a 354 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 1: better phrase, to to get folks immunized. Well, first, I 355 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: think it's really difficult right now for governors and health 356 00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: officials around the United States. This virus is moving very rapidly. 357 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: The rapid acquisition of cases that we're seeing results in 358 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: this rapid uptick and hospitalizations. So they're working on combating 359 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: the virus through mitigation and talking to their state um 360 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: residents and trying to get mitigation of washing your hands, 361 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 1: physical distancing, wearing masks at the same time that they're 362 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: trying to immunize individuals. So we can see across the 363 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: South that there's been less vaccinations at the same time 364 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 1: they're confronting this virus. And so it's our job to 365 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: really work with each one of these states and really 366 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: and I know right now CDC is working very closely 367 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: with Georgia to really help them get over some of 368 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: these structural barriers that we know always occur when we're 369 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: implementing new programs. Dr Burks is with US and Dr 370 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: Burks is as we move into a new month, a 371 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: new year, Uh, it should Americans feel optimistic about the 372 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: course that we are on with the vaccination front. You know, 373 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: it's difficult to be completely optimistic. I'm optimistic about the 374 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,199 Speaker 1: vaccines if we can get them into the arms of 375 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 1: people who need them the most, as well as our 376 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: frontline healthcare providers. But when you look at what's happening 377 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: with cases, hospitalizations and our fatality rates, we need to 378 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 1: increase our diligence right now over the over these next 379 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: four to six weeks will be very critical. We need 380 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: to protect one another in new ways because the things 381 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: that we did in the summer are not working to 382 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: the same extent that they did in the summer when 383 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: we were able to mitigate. So we're really asking people 384 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: to double down on mitigation while we work together to 385 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: get people immunized. Why is that do we know? Why 386 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: Why is it that that that that's not working but 387 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: it did in the summer. You know, it's a really 388 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: great question. Um. Obviously, weather conditions play a role, people 389 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: moving indoors playing a role, the multiple holidays are playing 390 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: a role. But also, you know, we're very concerned that 391 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,959 Speaker 1: the virus is just moving through the population in a 392 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: different way and so really asking people to do more 393 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: than what they did in the spring and the summer 394 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 1: personally to really protect each other in their families. Our 395 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,119 Speaker 1: goal right now now that we have vaccines, vaccines are 396 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: out in the States, to really make sure that we 397 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:16,919 Speaker 1: can get our vulnerable Americans immunized. Asking everybody to really 398 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: protect one another right now while vaccines become available, is 399 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: it realistic for for most Americans who expect to receive 400 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: the vaccine by the first quarter or by the first 401 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: half of this year. I think what's really important is 402 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,359 Speaker 1: we get those that we know are very vulnerable to 403 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: serious disease, those with comorbidities. Um CDC just added um 404 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: down syndromes to those difficult and concerning comorbidities. So really 405 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,720 Speaker 1: making sure the vulnerable Americans are immunized. The rest of 406 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,439 Speaker 1: us are going to wait our turn. Um I'm not 407 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 1: in any of those frontline categories, so I'm going to 408 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: wait my turn. But I do hope my parents at 409 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: one and ninety six get immunized. And I think those 410 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 1: are the sacrifices we're all going to have to make 411 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: as Americans, wearing our masks, physical distancing and keeping our 412 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: place in line to ensure that those who needed the 413 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: most get immunized. Dr Burkes, you have said that you 414 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: were going to retire at the end of this term 415 00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 1: as you look back on your career UH, which spans decades, 416 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: and the work that you've done on HIV and AIDS 417 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: and whatnot. But in particular, what is your biggest regret 418 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: for the past year in the in the midst of 419 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: this pandemic that you wish you could have corrected or 420 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: done over? Well, thank you for that question, And what 421 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: I really said is I would retire after it was 422 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: clear that the Biden administration had everything they needed. Whether 423 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,639 Speaker 1: that's next month, February, March, or April, that's what it 424 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: will be. UM. I would return to my home agency, 425 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,760 Speaker 1: but I certainly want to make sure that the incoming 426 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:54,199 Speaker 1: administration is extraordinarily that is successful. I think this last year, 427 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,400 Speaker 1: what I learned from going out to States was absolutely crucial, 428 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: and I wish I had done it in April because 429 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,159 Speaker 1: it really changed how we thought about the virus, the 430 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,359 Speaker 1: policies that we worked with States on, and really the 431 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: importance of communication at that state level and really understanding 432 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:16,440 Speaker 1: what was making people more vulnerable. UM from the tribal 433 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 1: nations to our inner city African American and Hispanic groups 434 00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: to really understand how we had to surge testing in 435 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: a strategic way and in a new way. So those 436 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 1: what I learned in the field, going to forty four 437 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: states and to universities was really essential. It. It taught 438 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,879 Speaker 1: us a lot to be on the ground, and I 439 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: think when many people weren't traveling, that really became critical 440 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: to understand what governors, what um the health, the health 441 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 1: individuals were confronting, talking to hospitals and really understanding and 442 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: then hearing what communities said and really listening. And that 443 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: was really critical. And I wish I had gone out 444 00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 1: towards the end of April, and I had to follow 445 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: up and I have others but to follow up on this. Uh. 446 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,879 Speaker 1: Policymakers of all political stripes, yourself included, have received some 447 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: criticism for what has been not following some of the 448 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 1: guidelines that have been put out there. What do you 449 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: what have you learned from that experience, Dr Burke's and 450 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: that you hope policymakers of all political stripes recognized that 451 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 1: people are watching, people are listening to what people like 452 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:28,919 Speaker 1: yourselves are telling the public to do. Yeah, first and foremost, 453 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,800 Speaker 1: I what has kept me safe in the six months 454 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 1: I've been in the field. UM. I think eight ninety days, UM, 455 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: nearly thirty thousand miles was following the CDC guidelines. UM. 456 00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: Those side CDC guidelines were our lifeline. UM, and we 457 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 1: followed them every day. I I I really regret how 458 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: this story was reported. UM. My household has been part 459 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,200 Speaker 1: of my household for the last um many many decades. UM, 460 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: and I did have to support my ushold in Potomac. 461 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,280 Speaker 1: I have not gathered and I still haven't gathered. UM. 462 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: We have four children. I've seen one of them. It's 463 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: part of that bubble household that I'm a part of. 464 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: All Americans are making sacrifices. Grandparents are not seeing grandchildren. 465 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: My parents haven't seen my brother or their grandchildren in 466 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: over a year. I know Americans are making those sacrifices. 467 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 1: We're all making those sacrifices together, and all of us 468 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:34,199 Speaker 1: need to continue those sacrifices until everyone is immunized. How 469 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 1: do you hope to be remembered and how do you 470 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: hope this team is remembered once America finally turns the 471 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: corner from COVID nineteen Well, I think you know, for 472 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,880 Speaker 1: the last eleven months, I've never made this about me, 473 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: because that's not what it's about. It's about how as 474 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: an administration, as a federal government, we work to support 475 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: the states, to support the residents of those states. And 476 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: I think what will what I know will be true 477 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: is this will be a historic event that people look 478 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: at very carefully. There is a written record. People will 479 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: be able to see what went well, what needs to 480 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: improve that next time. I think I've kept very clear 481 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: notes on my recommendations of how we need to be 482 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: prepared for the next pandemic. There's some legislative fixes, but 483 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: there's some really how our systems work or don't work 484 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 1: together that really need to be addressed. And I really 485 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: hope that sometimes when we get through a crisis, we 486 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 1: don't want to fix the things because we've moved past 487 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: that crisis. I think this will be the moment that 488 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: we really need to address issues that exist both from 489 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 1: health despair as ease theorities, but also legislative fixes that 490 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: will be critical for us to be able to have 491 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: data and accessibility of data in the future. Two more 492 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: questions very quickly, First and foremost, what's a memory of 493 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: the past eleven months that really captures on the front 494 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: lines as you've traveled the entire country and forty four states. 495 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: I believe you said, what's a memory that that? And 496 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: I know there's so many, but once coming to your 497 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: mind right now as I'm asking this question of a 498 00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 1: frontline incident, that that gives you hope, that gives you optimism, 499 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: that that that illustrates the American spirit. I think no 500 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 1: matter where I went, and no matter where it was 501 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: a local county commissioner to a mayor, to a governor, 502 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: to tribal leader chairman's, they all shared the fact that 503 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: they wanted to protect the people that they were responsible 504 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: for leading. And I think that's what gives me incredible 505 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: hope and gave me credible hope the whole time I 506 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: was traveling. Is the level of dedication of our local 507 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: leaders throughout the United States. And then, finally, what's one 508 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: thing that's kept you going? It could be very practical, 509 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: like coffee. The mission. I am relentless in completing and 510 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: working on the mission. And the admission was to try 511 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: to decrease the impact of COVID nineteen UM and we 512 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: we still need and that mission is still mission is 513 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: sent Chill over these next few months focused on the 514 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: mission That was my conversation earlier today with Dr Deborah Burke's, 515 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 1: of course, uh, one of the the point people uh 516 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: in the US government on the coronavirus. My name is 517 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,920 Speaker 1: Kevin surli On, the chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television 518 00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: and for Bloomberg Radio. Jeanie shan Zos with me Bloomberg 519 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: Politics contributor. She's also, of course, a professor at Iona 520 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,160 Speaker 1: College and the author of the new book American Democracy 521 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: in Crisis. Lester Monthson is still with me. Principal at 522 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: the government relations firm b GR Group. Previously worked for 523 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: Bob Corker on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Genie, I mean, 524 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: you hear that interview and and you almost hear in 525 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: her voice the how difficult this resurgence of the virus 526 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: has been. Yeah, I mean, it was absolutely fascinating to 527 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 1: hear you talking to her today. And we are also 528 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: hearing today that Vice Vice President Joe Biden. President elect 529 00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: Biden has become increasingly frustrated, concerned that his team may 530 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: not be able to meet the promise of a hundred 531 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: million vaccinations, in part because of what they have described 532 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: as this sort of mess that has been the COVID 533 00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: response so far, um and so it's it's it's something 534 00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: that they're increasingly concerned about, and we're hearing a lot 535 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 1: of tension on his team as they come forward. And 536 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: I also thought that one of the last questions you 537 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: asked in terms of how she hopes to be remembered, 538 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: and she said she's keeping notes. I hope she writes 539 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: something so that we can read what this was like 540 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: from the inside and see what can be done differently 541 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: next time. Well, and I think it's I thought the 542 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: exact same thing, and clearly that was a clue for 543 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: a potential roadmap. But I hope it's it's anyone who's 544 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: and covering her over this past year in particular. She's 545 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 1: such an academic, so to speak. And hopefully it will 546 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: be a playbook for future generations, whether it's a hundred 547 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: two hundred years from now, hopefully in order to uh 548 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: to prevent some of the horrors of the last year, 549 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: both from a health standpoint in economic standpoint. You mentioned 550 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: President elect Joe Biden. We've got sound on that, which 551 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: you just alluded to about him talking about the vaccines. 552 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: He spoke earlier today. Here's the president elect of the 553 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: United States. My number one priority is getting vaccine people's 554 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: arms lesser Munson. I mean, you heard the pragmatism one 555 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: could argue from Dr Burke's perspective about the assessment, the 556 00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:39,880 Speaker 1: current assessment of the uptick in COVID cases, governors making 557 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: very difficult decisions again. Uh. And then you have the 558 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: President elect coming out as g D just alluded to 559 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: and talking about the realities of a very cold winter 560 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 1: and a resurgence of the virus Lester. Yeah, and and 561 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 1: and this is something that all Americans are wrestling with. 562 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 1: We've all got family member and friends who are are 563 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 1: in the age group where they're vulnerable or they have 564 00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: you know what she calls code more abilities, And so 565 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: we want to see the people who are vulnerable get 566 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: protected as quickly as possible. Uh. And and there's this 567 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,840 Speaker 1: issue of there being different responses in different areas, sometimes 568 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:21,279 Speaker 1: down to the county level, even even more granularity than 569 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 1: the state level. Uh And And good for Joe Biden 570 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 1: for saying this is his priority. I think this is 571 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:31,239 Speaker 1: something that really matters in people's lives and absolutely is 572 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 1: as much of an emergency as as we can conceive of. 573 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,799 Speaker 1: And so I think He's entirely correct. Prioritize it when 574 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 1: you hear I mean, and you having worked in in 575 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: the geopolitical space on the hill, especially with UH now 576 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 1: former Chairman Corker, I mean, just from your experience and 577 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: working with Dr Deborah Burke's lester and your dealings with 578 00:34:55,200 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 1: people of her caliber within the administration and career law, 579 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,239 Speaker 1: so to speak, careers at the State's department. I mean, 580 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,440 Speaker 1: how do you think the legacy will be remembered of 581 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 1: their handling of this past eleven months? Well, boy, Kevin, 582 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,800 Speaker 1: what a what a great question. I think Debbie Brooks 583 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: is a terrific public sermon. She did a she did 584 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: a terrific job as the coordinator of our international AIDS program. 585 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: I think she's done a much better job than she's 586 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: been given credit for handling COVID nineteen and this pandemic. 587 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: This is this is an unprecedented event there there, while 588 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: there was a bunch of playbooks on the shelf, no 589 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 1: one had been through it before. I think the stories 590 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,359 Speaker 1: that will be written about her years from now will 591 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: be favorable. And and let's let's not forget she was 592 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: the hostile environment for her was her own administration. You 593 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,479 Speaker 1: know the President and some of his key advisors were 594 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,640 Speaker 1: highly critical of her. They were critical of Dr Fauci. 595 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 1: They were almost undermining on an hourly basis, and they 596 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 1: tried to do their jobs. They stuck it out their 597 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 1: toughest males. I think all Americans should be thankful for 598 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,959 Speaker 1: their circlece. I mean, and you almost want to say 599 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: this and in terms less her of conducting an interview, 600 00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,399 Speaker 1: and I'll peel back the curtain a little bit here. 601 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: I'm very curious to to the type of interview Dr 602 00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,359 Speaker 1: Burke's would give, and quite frankly, if she's going back 603 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,040 Speaker 1: to the State's Department, I don't think that she would 604 00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: ever give a really candid interview on her on what 605 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 1: she on the as you described the frustrating aspects of 606 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:38,759 Speaker 1: the politicization of this virus that she's worked through now 607 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: for eleven months. Lester, Yeah, it's um and she shouldn't 608 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:49,239 Speaker 1: write there's uh, she's in the tough spot. But the 609 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 1: reason she's respected, the reasons she is in this leadership 610 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,760 Speaker 1: position and frankly a leader around the world, that's important. 611 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 1: What do you mean by that? Let's package that, because 612 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,840 Speaker 1: I think that's very important and I don't think people 613 00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,560 Speaker 1: understand necessarily the global role. That's someone like a Debbie 614 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: Burke's place go ahead lesser well. So as as before 615 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: coronavirus came along a year ago, as she was the 616 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,799 Speaker 1: head of of pop Far the President's Emergency Plan for 617 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: AS Relief, which is which is a critical US government 618 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: program that has effectively stopped the HIV virus in the 619 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: developing world and in substant here in Africa and many 620 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:32,759 Speaker 1: other places. It saved a generation of humans. Tens of 621 00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: millions of people and I'm not exaggerating are alive today 622 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: because of that program. But for that program, they would 623 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,399 Speaker 1: not be around. She led that effort. Uh, it's it's 624 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:47,200 Speaker 1: a multibillion dollar effort, dealing with other countries, multilateral institutions, 625 00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,640 Speaker 1: other governments. It's incredibly complex and difficult. She led that program. 626 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: That is, the person who runs that program is one 627 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,399 Speaker 1: of the most important people in the world because you're 628 00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: The work that she did and other people who have 629 00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: had that job did saved lives on a regular basis. 630 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 1: And I can't emphasize this enough. It's an incredibly difficult 631 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,839 Speaker 1: job with tons of criticism, tons of decisions every single day. 632 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,200 Speaker 1: She did that job. Terrifically. I think she did a 633 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:18,600 Speaker 1: good job on coronavirus, better than she's she's given credit 634 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:20,319 Speaker 1: for in it. And I agree with her that the 635 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: stories that were written about her and some of her 636 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,720 Speaker 1: and her personal life we're not appropriate, and she she 637 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,640 Speaker 1: she has adhered to the guideline and has done the 638 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 1: right thing as has really is exactly the kind of 639 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,319 Speaker 1: person you want in that kind of job. All right, 640 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: let's reset here. My name is Kevin Curley. I'm the 641 00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:40,160 Speaker 1: chief Washington correspondent for Bloomberg Television and for Bloomberg Radio. 642 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: I'm joined by Bloomberg Politics contributor Jeanie shn Zano, as 643 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:49,800 Speaker 1: well as Lester Munson, a Republican geopolitical consultant, and and Jeanie. 644 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:52,279 Speaker 1: We we have to cover this other massive story that 645 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 1: has emerged over the past week and really over the weekend, 646 00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 1: and that of course is Twitter removing President Donald Trump's 647 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,239 Speaker 1: account from its social media platform, and then other platforms 648 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:09,000 Speaker 1: like Google and others removing Parlor, the conservative social media app, 649 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 1: from their app store platforms. And the conversation that that 650 00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:18,000 Speaker 1: has started uh in on on freedom of speech as 651 00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,600 Speaker 1: well as on big tech and on social media there's 652 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 1: been various reports, including by my colleague Jennifer Jacobs, that 653 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: the President is planning some type of public statement or 654 00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: executive action on big tech regulations in his final weekend 655 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:36,799 Speaker 1: office And and it's it's really at the NEXTUS of 656 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:40,840 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley in Washington, d C. Jenny, it absolutely is. 657 00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,359 Speaker 1: And we've seen their um, we've seen their shares of 658 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: fall as a as a result. UM. And I think 659 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,239 Speaker 1: this is a conversation it has been UM, you know, 660 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: sort of brought to the forefront in the last several days, 661 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,239 Speaker 1: the last few hours by the by the removal of 662 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 1: the President and many many people who were engaged in 663 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 1: those activities of what last Wednesday. But of course this 664 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: is an ongoing conversation around the nexus between Washington, d C, 665 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: the government, and of course all of these social social 666 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:17,439 Speaker 1: networks UM and Twitter, Instagram, Snapchat, Facebook, Amazon, UM. And 667 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:19,600 Speaker 1: you know, we're going to have to be grappling with 668 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 1: a lot. There's already a number of lawsuits on the 669 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,520 Speaker 1: table as the Biden administration comes in, and of course 670 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: Congress is going to have its work cut out for 671 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,799 Speaker 1: it deciding how it is going to move forward in 672 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,799 Speaker 1: terms of regulation. And I think there's no question from 673 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: left or right, there have been calls for regulation for 674 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,319 Speaker 1: different reasons, and we're going to see that coming down 675 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,479 Speaker 1: the pike. And I think there's a school of thought 676 00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,360 Speaker 1: that they acted too late on this, and there's another 677 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:47,799 Speaker 1: school of thought that this is empowering individuals who are 678 00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:51,120 Speaker 1: not elected from big corporations to have a huge say 679 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: over what kind of information we get in this country. 680 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,320 Speaker 1: So how we handle that going forward, both legally and 681 00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:00,200 Speaker 1: in the regulations scheme, is going to be critically important. Stir. 682 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:02,280 Speaker 1: I've struggled with this. I mean, obviously, as a journalist, 683 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,719 Speaker 1: I believe in freedom of speech, so I guess you're 684 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:08,240 Speaker 1: the expert here. My question to you, is its censor 685 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 1: ship if it's a company removing someone from their organization 686 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:20,359 Speaker 1: versus the government silence, single voice. No, I don't think 687 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,080 Speaker 1: it is censorship. And I think these private companies, uh 688 00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: you know, in our system are allowed to make these decisions. 689 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: I think this is important because I and I don't 690 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,760 Speaker 1: mean to interrupt, but I want to I want to 691 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,439 Speaker 1: expound on the on this particular point. You don't think 692 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: it's censorship, why because in other countries the governments would 693 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,080 Speaker 1: SI I mean, if you look at China, for example, 694 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,880 Speaker 1: a government would silence someone, but in this case, publicly 695 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:52,640 Speaker 1: traded companies are saying this is not acceptable, and this 696 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:55,680 Speaker 1: is this is not acceptable voice for lack of a 697 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,040 Speaker 1: better word, like but it's not it's not the government 698 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,960 Speaker 1: saying it. These are of a company saying it. So 699 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: they should be judged on that decision. And I'm not 700 00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,640 Speaker 1: saying they shouldn't be criticized at all. But it's not 701 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,040 Speaker 1: a it's not a classic freedom of speech issue. I 702 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,640 Speaker 1: don't I don't think it is. The president is free 703 00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: to go out and have a press conference, he is 704 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,120 Speaker 1: free to send out press releases, he is free to 705 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,120 Speaker 1: try to appear on television like he has had plenty 706 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 1: of ways he can try to comredicate if he wants to. 707 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 1: He was he was choosing to spread lives and false 708 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 1: narratives on social media, and they decided to shut him down. 709 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:30,840 Speaker 1: I think that's probably the right move. But what Twitter 710 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 1: and these other companies have to do now is show 711 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,240 Speaker 1: that that is their consistent policy no matter who is lying. 712 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:39,440 Speaker 1: If they're only going to apply it to Trump, will 713 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,840 Speaker 1: only apply it to concerns, They've got a huge problem. 714 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: If they're going to apply it across the board to 715 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: everyone who's involved in political life, making sure that that 716 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,840 Speaker 1: only only truthful things are are published on their platform. 717 00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,919 Speaker 1: That's a much more sensible place to be for them. Yeah, 718 00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: and I just wanted to add to that. I think 719 00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 1: Lester's absolutely there's no question this is not a violation 720 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,640 Speaker 1: of the ast Amendment. As we keep hearing, I mean, 721 00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 1: the First Amendment limits the government, it doesn't live in 722 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:09,080 Speaker 1: limit private companies. But another part of this is something 723 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,520 Speaker 1: that was talked about well before that, and that is 724 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 1: when you have huge corporations that essentially have a monopoly. 725 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:17,600 Speaker 1: If they do, and I'm not saying they do, but 726 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,160 Speaker 1: if they do, these Big five, then there are options 727 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 1: for you to go to another platform are limited. And 728 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 1: that's where some of the problems seem to arise. Right, 729 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 1: does anybody, the president, any of of us else have 730 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:35,200 Speaker 1: another place to go if the whole game is Twitter, Amazon, Facebook, 731 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,279 Speaker 1: and on. So that is another part of this where 732 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,359 Speaker 1: the government may have to step in if these are 733 00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:42,839 Speaker 1: determined to be monopolies. Jo I feel like you could 734 00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:47,960 Speaker 1: devote a whole semester of classes just on the decision 735 00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: that Twitter made to remove the outreel Donald Trump accounts 736 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 1: from their platform. And I have to say this in 737 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,600 Speaker 1: the last minute that I have left with you both. 738 00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,920 Speaker 1: The first article that I ever wrote back of Politico 739 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:05,759 Speaker 1: on Donald Trump was when his Twitter got hacked? And 740 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: do you remember what song lyrics? Do you do any 741 00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,719 Speaker 1: Does anyone remember this is this is a fact toy 742 00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: for Tom Keen. Does anyone remember what the Twitter song 743 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,160 Speaker 1: that his that that he was hacked with? This was 744 00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 1: back in Oh my gosh, I want to say two 745 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,160 Speaker 1: thousand and twelve. Wow, do you know any guesses quickly? 746 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 1: Something by Sublime? Nope? What about Eugenie? I've got nothing. 747 00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:35,919 Speaker 1: I don't even know who Sublime? Isn't Sublime? I'm sorry, Lester, 748 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,920 Speaker 1: I'm baffled at that. No, it was Britney Spears remix 749 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:44,280 Speaker 1: of Scream and shouts. Google it, Kevin Cereli, Donald Trump, 750 00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,759 Speaker 1: Britney Spears remix, Twitter hacked. Can't make it up. I'm 751 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,160 Speaker 1: Kevin Cereli. Thank you, Jennie, thank you, Lester, and thank 752 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,520 Speaker 1: you for listening. Much more coming up throughout the week. 753 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:59,240 Speaker 1: Abigail Spanburger congressrom Abigail Spanburger tomorrow. This is Bloomberg