1 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:08,840 Speaker 1: Diversion audio. 2 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 2: A note this episode contains mature content and descriptions of 3 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 2: violence that may be disturbing for some listeners. Please take 4 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 2: care in listening. I want to tell you about a dream. 5 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,920 Speaker 2: It's a recurring dream that Penny Farmer had after the 6 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:41,279 Speaker 2: disappearance of her brother, one she wrote about in her 7 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 2: book on the case Dead. 8 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: In the Water. 9 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:50,240 Speaker 2: It starts at a family party. Everyone is so happy, Penny, 10 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: her mother Audrey, her father Charles, her brother Nigel. They're 11 00:00:55,560 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: so happy because Chris is home with them, home with 12 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 2: all the people who love him, where he belongs. At 13 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: the end of the party, Penny knocks on Chris's bedroom door, grinning, 14 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 2: ready to gush about how glad she is to see him, 15 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 2: but he's under the covers. She walks to his bed 16 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 2: and sits down on the edge, and then she glances 17 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 2: at the nightstand. Lying on the table is a rubber 18 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 2: mask of her brother's face. She pulls aside the sheets. 19 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 2: The man lying underneath is a stranger. Imagine having that 20 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: dream over and over from the time you were a teenager. 21 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 2: Penny has been literally haunted her whole life. She's haunted 22 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 2: by hope, then despair, then false leads, and always this 23 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: sense of what's missing, of something wrong for forty years 24 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 2: until she took her brother's cold case into her own hands. 25 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 2: Welcome to the greatest true crime stories ever told. I'm 26 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 2: Mary Kay McBriar. I'm a writer of true crime, which 27 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: means I live inside the research wormhole. I'm constantly reading 28 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 2: about crime, but I'm not necessarily interested in all the 29 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 2: headline grabbing elements, the blood and the gore and all 30 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:02,359 Speaker 2: of that. I'm more interesting in the people behind these 31 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 2: stories and what we can learn about society by looking 32 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 2: at their experiences. If you want evidence of my obsession, 33 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 2: you can read my book America's First Female serial Killer, 34 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 2: Jane Toppin and the Making of a Monster. You can 35 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,119 Speaker 2: also meet me here every week when I dig into 36 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 2: crimes where a woman is not just a victim. She 37 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: might be as the detective, the lawyer, the witness, the coroner, 38 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 2: the criminal, or a combination of those roles. As you 39 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: probably already know, women can do anything. Today's episode is 40 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 2: the story of Penny Farmer, who lost her brother at 41 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: sea in the late nineteen seventies and never stopped looking 42 00:03:55,760 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 2: for him, not for forty years. There's nothing more frustrating 43 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 2: to me than watching a movie set before like two thousand, 44 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 2: mainly before cell phones, when information just wasn't scharable easily, 45 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 2: like in that scene of Zodiac when Mark Ruffalo has 46 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: to drive to the next county because they can't fax 47 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 2: documents to him. That always just makes me scream with 48 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 2: my mouth closed. Or when one cell phone calls could 49 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,239 Speaker 2: cut all the suspense of a movie, solve the case 50 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 2: and unravel the plot completely. I hate that, Not to mention, 51 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: that's my reaction to just a movie. The inability to 52 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: retroactively apply new elements to old crimes in real life 53 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 2: is an insufferable injustice. So for a little while I 54 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 2: dated a private investigator. He lied about a lot of stuff, 55 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 2: as espionage workers are trained to do, but one thing 56 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 2: he said that struck me as very true is how 57 00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: the early usage of Facebook basically did his job for him. 58 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: I'm talking about Facebook before it was mostly a boom 59 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: or healthscape full of political hot takes, back when everyone 60 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 2: used it, usually with their real names, posting current pictures 61 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: of themselves in recognizable places where people wanted to be 62 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:55,600 Speaker 2: found in hopes of connecting to people from their past. 63 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 2: And if I had a dime for every time I 64 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 2: snooped on a friend's blind date just by reverse searching 65 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 2: the guy's phone number. Well, frankly, it astonishes me how 66 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 2: any case got closed before the technologies we use so 67 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 2: easily nowadays. It's one reason why so many of them 68 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: ran cold. That and the fact that crimes get buried 69 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 2: under new crimes, crimes that can be worked more easily 70 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: with our new technology and new methods of gathering evidence. 71 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 2: It stands to reason that happens pretty often. Penny Farmer 72 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 2: didn't let that happen. Officials might have gotten pulled away 73 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 2: to more recent issues, but Penny applied the technologies she 74 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 2: had on hand as a regular citizen and brought justice 75 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 2: to her beloved brother. 76 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: Penny Farmer was. 77 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 2: Zooming through the roads of the northern England city of 78 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: Manchester in Chevrolet. The front seat was cramped and uncomfortable 79 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: with three squeezed in, but Penny didn't care. She sat 80 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: between her elder brother Chris and his friend in the 81 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 2: driver's seat, Pink Floyd's wish you were here flying through 82 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 2: the speakers, as she'd reminisced decades later in her book 83 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: on her brother's case. 84 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: Dead in the water. In that moment, she. 85 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 2: Told herself, I've arrived. Chris was the kind of brother 86 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 2: who gave his kid's sister lots of moments like that. 87 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 2: He played music at the house that was like a 88 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 2: live soundtrack of seventies cool Bob Dylan, David Bowie, Jimmy Hendrix, 89 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: Jefferson Airplane. He gave her a motorcycle ride once, just once, 90 00:07:49,880 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 2: because their mother, Audrey, was not thrilled. He dressed wild too, 91 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 2: bell bottoms, crop tops, a patchwork leather jacket, and he 92 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 2: had thick, stylish Penny admired him. She admired how he 93 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 2: made life exciting. It was no surprise when he and 94 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 2: his longtime girlfriend Peta announced that they were going to 95 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: travel the world when they finished their studies. Both advanced degrees, 96 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: his in medicine hers in law in nineteen seventy seven. 97 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: Chris Farmer was twenty five, Peter Frampton was twenty four. 98 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: The couple grew up across the street from one another, 99 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 2: and they'd been sweethearts since childhood. Chris and Peta had 100 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 2: already made many trips together through Europe and down to 101 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 2: North Africa. This trip would be different because it would 102 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 2: be long and it would take them all the way 103 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 2: from Australia through the South Seas to South America. After 104 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 2: Chris and Peter left for their big adventure in December 105 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy, Penny had to focus on the major life 106 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 2: events rushing toward her as a high scholer A level exams, 107 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 2: university applications. Every time Chris mailed the Farmer family one 108 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:18,960 Speaker 2: of his messages, she'd get excited. They came as voice 109 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 2: recordings on cassettes and they painted these detailed, happy portraits 110 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 2: of his travels with Peter. 111 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 3: And then went on to Guadalajara, as I say, quite 112 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 3: a nice towns. 113 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 2: Not anything's heard of the. 114 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: Marry archies, but you'reinerant Mexican musicians and that's their hometown. 115 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 3: So every streetcorn you come to, you you've seen five 116 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 3: or six of these characters. 117 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 2: Playing their different size guitars and double basses, demanding a 118 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 2: few pay those. 119 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: For a song. 120 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,160 Speaker 2: That's a clip of the tapes from the BBC podcast Paradise, 121 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: which did an investigative deep dive in to the case. 122 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 2: I think it's so cool that Chris communicated this way. 123 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 2: I mean, letters are great, I miss letters, but this 124 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 2: is pretty and genius and the cassette recordings let his 125 00:10:13,800 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 2: loved ones hear the sounds around him in the world too. 126 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: That's Pink Floyd in the background of this recording. It's 127 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 2: so evocative of the time. The tape really puts you 128 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 2: right there with Chris. Penny also tuned in for reports 129 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 2: from Peter's family. Peter regularly wrote long diary style letters 130 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 2: to her mother, Sammy Frampton, who passed on the news 131 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 2: to the Farmers. The trip sounded magical. Barbecues and shark 132 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,719 Speaker 2: catching on the shores of Australia, scuba diving and snorkeling 133 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:53,000 Speaker 2: in New Caledonia and Fiji, smoke plumes from Hawaii's volcanoes, 134 00:10:53,840 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 2: Aztec ruins and Wohaka, and then Belize City. Here Chris 135 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 2: and Peta met a man named Silas Dwayne Boston and 136 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:10,440 Speaker 2: his two young sons, then thirteen year old Vince and 137 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 2: twelve year old Russell. Another tourist at a hotel bar 138 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 2: introduced them. Dwayne, he went by his middle name, was gregarious, 139 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 2: charming and a big drinker. But for Chris and Peta, 140 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 2: his real appeal was that he owned a boat which 141 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 2: he used to ferry tourists around the region. The Justin 142 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 2: b was a simple vessel, wooden, no bathroom or other 143 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 2: modern luxuries. Traveling on that thing would be a real adventure. 144 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 2: After a few short trips around the coast of Belize 145 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 2: and the nearby Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico, Peta and Chris 146 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 2: decide to join Dwayne on a longer sail down to 147 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 2: Costa Rica. Despite the fact that they hadn't planned to 148 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 2: travel that way, Peta said in a letter to her mother, 149 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,840 Speaker 2: we thought it was an opportunity not to be missed. 150 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,080 Speaker 2: More of Pete's letters trickled back to England after she 151 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 2: and Chris boarded the boat. At first, they painted the 152 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 2: same cheery picture as the previous letters. Quote, it's very 153 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 2: peaceful and we catch fish for supper. There's plenty of 154 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 2: snapper and grunt, not to mention catfish, which is tasty. 155 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:27,959 Speaker 2: It's a real kick being able to catch your own supper. 156 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 2: The boat is not very comfortable, it's a bit cramped, 157 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 2: but during the day it's super just lying on the 158 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 2: hatches and soaking up the sun while the boat flies along. 159 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 1: That letter arrived in. 160 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:49,480 Speaker 2: June nineteen seventy eight, dated June thirteenth, The Frampton and 161 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 2: former families devoured it, and then they waited for more, 162 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 2: and waited. 163 00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: And waited. 164 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 2: They wondered if there was a postal strike, or maybe 165 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 2: Chris and Peter were sick. They began to worry, maybe 166 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 2: something was really wrong. They always updated their families, no 167 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 2: matter how far their adventures took them. But then in 168 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 2: August another letter. The letter was sweet relief for both families. 169 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 2: At first, it read like a usual Peta update for 170 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 2: the most part, although for the first time there was 171 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 2: a hint of tensions brewing on the boat. Peter wrote, 172 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: I wouldn't mind ending my sailing career now I find 173 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 2: I have no patience at all with Twain's two sons. 174 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 2: But what makes it worse is that Dwayne curses and 175 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 2: puts them down continually. She signed off like this, enough 176 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 2: of the future. I don't think there's any more news. 177 00:13:56,960 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 2: Nothing much happens on a boat. 178 00:13:58,920 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: Lots of love. 179 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 2: Dwayne and the boats. Apparently fading charm isn't what started 180 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 2: to worry. The family is back in England once again, though. 181 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 2: It's the fact that the letter was dated June twenty eighth, 182 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,640 Speaker 2: with a PostScript marked June twenty ninth, and yet it 183 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 2: hadn't arrived in England until August. When Peter wasn't able 184 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 2: to post a letter right away, she always added to it, 185 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 2: dating the editions along the way. What had the couple 186 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 2: been doing throughout July. Then there was the fact that 187 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 2: no more letters arrived, nor any tapes from Chris, much 188 00:14:38,520 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 2: less phone calls. Neither family heard anything. The months following 189 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 2: that final August letter from Peta were a nightmare for 190 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 2: the Farmer and Frampton families. They got together and asked 191 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 2: the Foreign Office to investigate. They talked to their local 192 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 2: member of Parliament, asking him to look into it. Both 193 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 2: sets of parents wrote letters to all the British consuls 194 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 2: in Central and South America. Charles Farmer, Chris and Penny's 195 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 2: father was a reporter with BBC Television, so he knew 196 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 2: to turn to the news, taking every step possible to 197 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 2: get word of the disappearance out there. He and his wife, 198 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 2: Audrey did interviews with the BBC and ITV, A host 199 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 2: of national as well as local newspapers. Radio and TV 200 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 2: stations ran stories. The Farmers had a Spanish friend write 201 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 2: a letter to hotels and tourist spots around Guatemala. The 202 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 2: last place that Chris and Peter had written from. The 203 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 2: families and the public speculated about what could have happened. 204 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: The young couple might have been. 205 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,080 Speaker 2: Thrown in some distant jail cell or taken hostage by 206 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 2: a faction in the ongoing Guatemala and Civil War, but 207 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 2: the Farmers and the Framptons didn't think too much about 208 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 2: the other options. 209 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: They couldn't not yet. 210 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 2: There was still hope leads here and there throughout September 211 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 2: and the first half of October, but none of the 212 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:44,000 Speaker 2: leads seemed to go anywhere. Penny walked into silent rooms 213 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 2: around the house to find her mother alone, wiping. 214 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:47,880 Speaker 1: Her way tears. 215 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 2: Penny was still just eighteen, but she wasn't the carefree 216 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 2: kid she was when Chris left nine months earlier, especially 217 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: not since the British Foreign Office finally made some progress 218 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 2: on the case in mid October. They tracked down silas 219 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,359 Speaker 2: Dwayne Boston, who left Belize with his sons soon after 220 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 2: Chris and Peter's disappearance and made his way back to 221 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 2: his home state of California. I don't know about you, 222 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,000 Speaker 2: but that is unacceptable. I mean, you're really going and 223 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 2: just not say nothing to nobody. After two of your 224 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 2: passengers go missing in front of your two little boys, 225 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,199 Speaker 2: you think the best idea is to pack up and 226 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 2: leave the country. 227 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 1: Okay. 228 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 2: Someone from the British Consulate called Dwayne and questioned him. 229 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 2: Dwayne's answers were vague and unhelpful. He said he dropped 230 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 2: off the couple in the port across the bay from Livingston, 231 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 2: Guatemala Covenetris Puntas Peninsula. From there, he had no idea 232 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 2: where they went. 233 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: He might have. 234 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 2: Seen them in Livingston around the ninth of July, but 235 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 2: it could have been a different couple. I just can't 236 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 2: buy that level of being totally out of it, not 237 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 2: even for the seventies. At this point, the British Consulate 238 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,280 Speaker 2: was also convinced Dwayne was hiding something, or hiding a 239 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 2: lot of things. He was so evasive, but they had 240 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 2: no proof, so they interviewed him again in person. This time, 241 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,919 Speaker 2: he was calm and collected when he started talking, but 242 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 2: when the questioning got into Chris and Peta, his demeanor 243 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 2: completely changed. 244 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:29,440 Speaker 1: This is a. 245 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 2: Quote from the report the Farmers got. On the interview, 246 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,879 Speaker 2: Dwayne Boston sat up straight in his chair, his eyes 247 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 2: widened and his breathing became heavy, his chest notably rising 248 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 2: and falling. Following this, he slumped back in his chair, 249 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 2: placing his face into his right hand, and in a 250 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,800 Speaker 2: softly spoken voice, he said that he thought Chris and 251 00:18:53,880 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 2: Peta would be back home by now. The Coate was 252 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 2: more convinced than ever that there was foul play at 253 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,240 Speaker 2: work here and Dwayne was involved. They told the Farmers 254 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,160 Speaker 2: to take the case to the Greater Manchester Police. This 255 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 2: was officially a criminal investigation, but still there was no proof. 256 00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 2: There was nothing to go on, not even bodies, just 257 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 2: unshakable intuition and good sense. By now, Chris and Peter 258 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 2: had been missing for six months. Penny watched her parents bury, 259 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 2: their grief and anxiety and the investigation even as it 260 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:40,400 Speaker 2: stalled once again. Charles Farmer actually called Dwayne Boston himself 261 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 2: and talked to him with the clearance of the Manchester Police. 262 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 2: He got the same kind of evasive answers that Dwayne 263 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 2: had already given the Consulate. Charles came away convinced that 264 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 2: there was foul play too, and Dwayne was involved. So 265 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 2: the Farmers decided to try one more. They hired a 266 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 2: private detective to look into the case on the ground 267 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 2: in Balize. On February first, nineteen seventy nine, Penny finished 268 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 2: the school day. She walked to a telephone booth in 269 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:28,200 Speaker 2: Wilmslow Town Center and dialed home. She started telling her mother, Audrey, 270 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 2: that she was going to be late for dinner. She 271 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 2: wanted to go over to a friend's house, but, as 272 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 2: she'd later recall in her book, her mother interrupted her, no, 273 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 2: you need to come home now. Penny heard something in 274 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 2: Audrey's voice, a faltering distress. She didn't ask questions she 275 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 2: didn't need to. As she rushed through the two mile 276 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 2: walk home alone along the darkening road, She felt completely shattered. 277 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,640 Speaker 2: She described the feeling in her book, The world felt 278 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 2: like it was spinning on its axis. 279 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: At breakneck speed and in free fall. 280 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,120 Speaker 2: That night, Charles Farmer told his family word had come 281 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 2: in from the private investigator. Alfonso d'epinna I said before 282 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 2: that you have to be pretty good at lying to 283 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,719 Speaker 2: be a private investigator, but that mostly applies to the 284 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 2: common ones, the ones who investigate selling corporate secrets and 285 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 2: other white collar crimes. D'penna is a good one, a 286 00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 2: real white hat. Depina spoke with a local Balisian priest. 287 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 2: The priest said he heard about two bodies found two 288 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 2: hundred meters off the coast of the Guatemalan Peninsula Cabo Trees, Puntas, 289 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 2: back in July. The description of the bodies matched those 290 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 2: of the missing couple. The priests also told Dpenya that 291 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 2: these two bodies were mutilated before they were tied to 292 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 2: engine parts and drowned. The locals were so upset by 293 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 2: the bodies that after an autopsy, they immediately buried them 294 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 2: in the local Puerto Barrio cemetery. As harrowing as that is, 295 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 2: I have to give everyone involved credit. They got an autopsy, 296 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 2: they followed the protocol, and that's pretty incredible. The former 297 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 2: family knocked back a bottle of sherry, the only alcohol 298 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 2: they had in the house. Finally they knew Pete and 299 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:48,360 Speaker 2: Chris were dead. They just didn't know how or why 300 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:54,520 Speaker 2: the bodies were exhumed. I understand that exhumation needs to 301 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 2: happen sometimes in the name of justice, but even just 302 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,720 Speaker 2: hearing about it makes my stomach hurt. There's a certain 303 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 2: kind of piece that comes when someone's body is laid 304 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 2: to rest and exhummation. It feels to me like It 305 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 2: not only undoes that piece, but it tangles up the 306 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:16,920 Speaker 2: grieving process too. But it was necessary here. It meant 307 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,920 Speaker 2: that the families got some more much needed information about 308 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 2: Chris and Peta. First, a dental examination confirmed what they were. 309 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 2: All but certain of the bodies belonged to Chris and Peta. 310 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 2: It confirmed other gruesome details too. They had both been 311 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:43,399 Speaker 2: bound by the hands, legs, and ankles. Chris showed marks 312 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 2: of torture. Peta had a plastic bag over her head. 313 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:54,600 Speaker 2: Both were tied to engine parts. Both had died by drowning. 314 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,440 Speaker 2: That meant they'd been alive when they were thrown into 315 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 2: the waters off Guatemala's coast. The farmers also learned that 316 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 2: Silas Dwayne Boston was a criminal with a long record 317 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 2: with charges ranging from theft to rape. He was even 318 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 2: a suspect in the disappearance of one of his wives, 319 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 2: Mary Lou Boston, the mother of his two young sons, 320 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 2: who had been on the boat. Mary Lou's body was 321 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 2: never found, but the police suspected foul play. And that's it. 322 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 2: That is all the families knew for decades. Imagine if 323 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 2: we ended the episode here, how unsatisfied would you be? 324 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 2: If I was you, I would be pissed, but I'd 325 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,679 Speaker 2: be even more upset obviously if it was happening to 326 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 2: me in real life, if I was related to the 327 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 2: people who died. I'm oversimplifying the emotions, but I think 328 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 2: the main one I would display is rage. Because even 329 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 2: with the bodies in hand and the knowledge of his 330 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 2: past crimes, authorities were unable to find any concrete evidence 331 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 2: that Silas Duayne Boston was the killer. The motor parts 332 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 2: Chris and Peta had been tied to were recovered from 333 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 2: the sea, but they were lost in the shuffle before 334 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 2: Dpinya found the bodies. They couldn't provide any leits. This 335 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 2: seems like another place where some contemporary technology could have 336 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 2: been really useful. Unfortunately, Guatemalan officials and police were also 337 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 2: pretty unhelpful. They had no diplomatic relations with Britain at 338 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 2: the time, thinks in part to a pretty brutal civil 339 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 2: war and general instability in Guatemala. But for the farmers, 340 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:55,199 Speaker 2: basically what this all amounted to was progress in the 341 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 2: case just stopped, despite the fact that they felt they 342 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 2: knew who committed this crime. To the farmers, the Greater 343 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 2: Manchester Police and the British Foreign Office. The truth already 344 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 2: seemed clear. Dwayne had killed the young couple for money 345 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 2: for something else they didn't know. He claimed they paid 346 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 2: him five hundred dollars for their passage and absurd some 347 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 2: for that service, the time period and the region. Maybe 348 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 2: he had stolen that money and claimed they paid it 349 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 2: to cover his tracks. Some people don't need a motive 350 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,920 Speaker 2: at all. But whatever the reason he did it, he 351 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 2: was the killer, and now he was living in California 352 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:49,719 Speaker 2: without a single consequence for his barbaric crime. Audrey Farmer 353 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 2: paused while making dinner one night, turned to Penny and said, 354 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 2: I don't feel that I will ever be able to 355 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 2: feel true happiness again. In the years that followed, the 356 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 2: Farmers never gave up on hounding authorities for updates and 357 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 2: giving suggestions for potential lines of inquiry. The police and 358 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 2: the US were the main source of news. They did 359 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 2: their best to keep track of Dwayne, but he was 360 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 2: good at evading the sites of the law. When they 361 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 2: had him in custody for an unrelated crime, they tried 362 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 2: to question him on what happened in Belize. His story changed, 363 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,640 Speaker 2: including important details like where exactly he dropped off Chris 364 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 2: and Peter, whether he left them on a beach or 365 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 2: on a quote unquote Native vote. But Dwayne wouldn't confess, 366 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 2: and when the other charges came to nothing, the police 367 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:58,119 Speaker 2: released him from custody. One of the main points the 368 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 2: Farmers kept making to law enforcement wasn't about Duayne at all. 369 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 2: They wanted to know about his sons. Those boys who 370 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 2: had been on the boat when Chris and Peter were killed. 371 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 2: Investigators had to talk to them. They might have seen something. 372 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:20,200 Speaker 2: They had to have some kind of information. American investigators 373 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 2: gave a frustrating response. They couldn't track down the boys. 374 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 2: The Boston family seemed to be constantly moving them around. 375 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 2: They were never able to bring the kids in for questioning. 376 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,719 Speaker 2: The Farmers were told by the Greater Manchester Police, their 377 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 2: main point of contact, that the case would never be closed. 378 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 2: The updates petered out. Penny went to university and graduated. 379 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 2: She became a journalist like her father, and then switched 380 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 2: from news into fashion and beauty reporting. She lived in London, married, 381 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 2: then moved again to Oxfordshire, where she raised a family. 382 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 2: She never stopped wondering, never felt that lightness of knowing. 383 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 2: On October second, twenty fifteen, Penny was walking the dog 384 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 2: with her mother. There was an autumnal glow to the scene, 385 00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,640 Speaker 2: that kind of warm, soft light that's beautiful but a 386 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 2: little melancholy. Audrey wondered wistfully what Chris would look like now. 387 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 2: He'd be sixty two, hard to imagine, he'd always be 388 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 2: young in their eyes. As Penny heard her mother speak, 389 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 2: standing in that mellow autumn light, almost forty years after 390 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 2: her brother's death, she had a realization. So much had 391 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 2: changed since the days when Chris and Peter went missing. 392 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 2: Now there was Facebook and everyone was on it. Everyone 393 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 2: was using their real names, real information about where they 394 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 2: were and what they did, maybe even Silas Dwayne Boston, 395 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 2: or better yet, his two sons. Penny's intuition was spot 396 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,240 Speaker 2: on at home that October day, it didn't take much 397 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 2: digging to find Vince Boston of California. He'd written publicly 398 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 2: on his profile about losing his mother to gun violence 399 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 2: when she was just twenty three years old, as part 400 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 2: of a post advocating for stricter gun laws in the US. 401 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 2: This was him, and if he was talking publicly about 402 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 2: his mother's death to gunfire, maybe he wasn't on good 403 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 2: terms with his father. Maybe he'd talk. Penny's hope grew 404 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 2: as she continued trawling through. Here was Russell Boston, and 405 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 2: here was Silas Dwayne Boston himself. She stared at the haggard, 406 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 2: grizzled photo at the forefront of his profile. This was 407 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 2: the man who had killed her brother. She had never 408 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 2: seen his face before, staring it down even through the screen, 409 00:31:52,720 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 2: she felt discussed, but she also felt hope. It wasn't 410 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 2: only that Vince seemed convinced his mother died due to 411 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,800 Speaker 2: foul play, nor that he wasn't afraid to talk about 412 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 2: it publicly. 413 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: There was also the fact. 414 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 2: That Vince wasn't quote unquote friends with his father or 415 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:20,600 Speaker 2: brother on the site. She didn't know what it meant yet, 416 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 2: but she hoped it might help. Before she had time 417 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,160 Speaker 2: to doubt her instincts, she logged into the anonymous Facebook 418 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 2: account she'd made to keep an eye on her own 419 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:36,400 Speaker 2: teenage kids. Then she sent each of the boys men 420 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 2: now a message, quote, please can you tell me if 421 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 2: you were off the coast of Central America and a 422 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 2: boat with your brother and father in nineteen seventy eight? 423 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: Thank you. 424 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 2: Please reply? Then I will tell you why I am 425 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 2: writing to you. Why won't you reply? Because you already 426 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 2: know why I'm writing to you? Do you know or 427 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 2: remember the truth? I will not leave this matter alone. 428 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 2: Penny didn't get a reply to those messages. She also 429 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 2: didn't give up. On Monday morning, Penny called the Greater 430 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 2: Manchester Police to inform them of her discovery. 431 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 1: She knew they'd been. 432 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:30,920 Speaker 2: Looking into cold cases lately. Now, she said, they had 433 00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 2: the information they needed to look into hers, and they agreed. 434 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 2: Penny's discovery was more than enough to reopen the case. 435 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 2: But the problem was, despite the technological revolution that had 436 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 2: occurred since the original investigation, international cases like this one 437 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 2: were still mired in complicated bureaucracy of jurisdiction and cooperating 438 00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 2: between different agencies. To get back in touch with the 439 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 2: Sacramento Police, the California Department, last involved with the case, 440 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 2: the Greater Manchester Police or GMP, had to go through 441 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:15,400 Speaker 2: Interpol in Washington, DC. And I should mention Interpol is 442 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:19,600 Speaker 2: not really the international spy organization that espionage films would 443 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 2: have you imagine. It's basically investigators assigned by different countries 444 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:29,719 Speaker 2: to work on international cases and coordinate between agencies. In 445 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 2: other words, they are slow. For months, Penny heard nothing. 446 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:39,720 Speaker 2: Life went on as it had for the past four decades. 447 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 2: But something was different. Now She knew the case could move. 448 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 2: There was an urgency now too. Dwayne was old if 449 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 2: the justice system was going to bring him down, it 450 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 2: needed to move. On February twenty ninth, twenty sixteen, the 451 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 2: GMP officer looking into the case, Mikaela Clinch, spoke directly 452 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 2: to Detective Amy Crosby of the Missing Person Unit at 453 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:12,840 Speaker 2: the Sacramento Police Department and learned something shocking. At almost 454 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,520 Speaker 2: the exact time that Penny had her revelation about the 455 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,879 Speaker 2: power of Facebook to crack this case. Amy was looking 456 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 2: into the disappearance of Mary Lou Boston, Dwayne's wife in 457 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 2: Vincent Russell's mother. The case was stalled, but on October thirteenth, 458 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, just eleven days after Penny sent her message 459 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 2: to Vince, he gave Amy a statement about his mother's case. 460 00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 2: He said, it's an open family secret that my father 461 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 2: killed my mother in nineteen sixty eight, although no one 462 00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 2: knows where he had buried her. But then Vince told 463 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:57,720 Speaker 2: Amy Moore. He told her I witnessed my father murder 464 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:03,120 Speaker 2: a young couple in broad daylight in Guatemala. He witnessed 465 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 2: Dwayne murder Chris and Peter, and he wanted to talk. 466 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 2: The good news kept coming. When Amy reached the other brother, Russell, 467 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,440 Speaker 2: on January nineteenth, he wanted to talk to and considering 468 00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 2: the brothers were estranged, that explained the lack of Facebook friendship. 469 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,240 Speaker 2: That made his corroboration of the events all the more powerful. 470 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,840 Speaker 2: They couldn't have colluded to concoct some story for the 471 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 2: police because Russell did corroborate Vince's story. It was March 472 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:48,280 Speaker 2: twenty sixteen Penny, her mother Audrey, and her brother Nigel 473 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,880 Speaker 2: gathered in the offices of the GMP. As Penny recounted 474 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 2: in her book, the officer said, you have waited long 475 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 2: enough to know what happened. How much would you like 476 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 2: to know? Penny and Nigel looked at their mother, Audrey 477 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:11,839 Speaker 2: was now ninety, and she said, I would like to 478 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 2: know everything. I don't want to be spared any details. 479 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 2: The Boston Boys story started in Sacramento in the autumn 480 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:30,760 Speaker 2: of nineteen seventy seven, when Dwayne was facing rape charges. 481 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 2: To escape the law, he fled down to Belize with 482 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 2: his two sons. Maybe he brought them to lend himself 483 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 2: an air of respectability. Who wouldn't trust a guy with 484 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 2: two kids? But in Belize he didn't hop on the 485 00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:50,160 Speaker 2: straight and narrow. He started drinking the cheap local rum, 486 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 2: lots of it, and getting both physically and verbally violent 487 00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:59,880 Speaker 2: when he did it. First toward the boys, Dwayne picked 488 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:03,320 Speaker 2: Chris and Peter up as customers part of his tourist business, 489 00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:07,840 Speaker 2: and inevitably the couple witnessed Dwayne's abuse of his sons. 490 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 2: They stepped in. One time. After screaming at Dwayne to 491 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,919 Speaker 2: stop and getting no response, Chris pulled Dwayne off twelve 492 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 2: year old Russell. Dwayne then toppled off the deck into 493 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,719 Speaker 2: the sea. Vince remembered Pete and Chris laughing at the 494 00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:28,800 Speaker 2: side of the splash, and Chris told Dwayne to behave 495 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:30,440 Speaker 2: as he hauled him back on board. 496 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,439 Speaker 1: Dwayne was humiliated. 497 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:42,240 Speaker 2: That night, Dwayne muttered to Vince, I'm going to kill them. 498 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 2: Most of the time you'd assume that was an angry exaggeration, 499 00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 2: but as I mentioned, it was an open secret in 500 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 2: the family that Dwayne killed Vince and Russell's mother. Vince 501 00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:01,080 Speaker 2: knew his father was serious. He hoped he wasn't, but 502 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 2: he knew he was. It didn't happen right away. Dwayne 503 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 2: was a seasoned criminal. He waited until the following night, 504 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 2: when Peter was below deck. He asked Chris to pull 505 00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 2: up the boat's anchor, and then he came at the 506 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:22,920 Speaker 2: young man from behind. He blood in Chris over the 507 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,799 Speaker 2: head with the club he used to stun and kill Fish, 508 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:33,600 Speaker 2: slamming it into Chris again and again until the club broke. Next, 509 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,320 Speaker 2: he attempted to stab him in the chest with a knife, 510 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:41,839 Speaker 2: until that also broke. When Peter heard, she came up 511 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,800 Speaker 2: to the deck and yelled for Dwayne to stop. Dwayne 512 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:50,040 Speaker 2: screamed back, get back down in the fucking gallery now, 513 00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 2: or I will shoot you with the spear gun. Chris 514 00:39:54,480 --> 00:40:00,360 Speaker 2: yelled too, what's your game? What's your game? And I 515 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 2: give up? I give up again and again. Finally, Dwayne, 516 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:13,800 Speaker 2: panting stopped. Chris was badly injured, likely with multiple broken 517 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:18,480 Speaker 2: bones in addition to a fractured skull. Dwayne, however, was 518 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,200 Speaker 2: the one complaining about the agonizing. 519 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 1: Pain in his back. 520 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:28,800 Speaker 2: In an extraordinary act, Chris actually got out his medical 521 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 2: bag and gave Dwayne a muscle relaxant. Maybe he was 522 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 2: trying to de escalate the situation. He asked Dwayne why 523 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 2: he'd done it, and he said it was because Chris 524 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:45,400 Speaker 2: had tried to haggle with him about the price of 525 00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:53,320 Speaker 2: the journey. He wanted his money. Chris soothed him, agreeing 526 00:40:53,440 --> 00:41:00,920 Speaker 2: immediately he'd pay whatever Dwayne wanted, and all of that 527 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:06,680 Speaker 2: did seem to de escalate things for a while. After 528 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:13,480 Speaker 2: taking the muscle relaxant, Dwayne fell asleep. The boys remember 529 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:18,840 Speaker 2: Pete and Chris whispering together through the night. They didn't 530 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 2: try to escape the boat. Probably Chris was unable to 531 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 2: considering his injuries. But maybe they thought that when Dwayne 532 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 2: woke up sober, he'd be calmer, less violent, that he'd 533 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:35,600 Speaker 2: take their money and let them go. 534 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:37,880 Speaker 1: In the morning. 535 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:42,400 Speaker 2: That guest seemed correct. Dwayne said he would drop his 536 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 2: passengers off on the Cabo de Trece Peninsula near Livingstone 537 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:50,799 Speaker 2: in Guatemala if they paid him five hundred dollars each, 538 00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:57,720 Speaker 2: an inordinance um based basically all their money. But they agreed. 539 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:04,239 Speaker 2: Then Dwayne stated his condition matter of factly, giving no 540 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:09,160 Speaker 2: choice to stop them from reporting him to the police. 541 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 2: Before he could get out of the area, he would 542 00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,920 Speaker 2: have to tie their hands and strip them naked before 543 00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 2: releasing them. They did not resist. That's when the nightmare 544 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:27,120 Speaker 2: grew darker. I want to give you all the heads 545 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,880 Speaker 2: up that what follows is really violent and disturbing, so 546 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:33,319 Speaker 2: feel free to skip forward about a minute if you 547 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 2: don't want to hear the details. Over the next thirty 548 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:44,360 Speaker 2: six hours, Dwayne manipulated Chris and Peta through sadistic mind 549 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,879 Speaker 2: games and physical violence, promising them he'd let them go, 550 00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:54,200 Speaker 2: but humiliating and degrading them in the meantime, he likely 551 00:42:54,280 --> 00:43:00,880 Speaker 2: raped Peta. The following day, he dressed his actives and 552 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 2: wrapped them in rope. Even now he was promising he'd 553 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,839 Speaker 2: drop them off on shore. He just needed to put 554 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:13,359 Speaker 2: plastic bags over their heads so they couldn't see where 555 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:18,160 Speaker 2: he was sailing. Once the bags were on their heads, 556 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:23,360 Speaker 2: he tied their ropes to heavy engine parts. Then he 557 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:28,640 Speaker 2: pushed them overboard. They were fully conscious as they went over, 558 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,560 Speaker 2: though with those engine parts and their injuries, they didn't 559 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:38,759 Speaker 2: stand a chance. Russell remembered seeing an air bubble come 560 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:56,000 Speaker 2: up through the sea, and then the sea was calm. Later, 561 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,120 Speaker 2: Penny would travel to California and talk to Russell in person, 562 00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,359 Speaker 2: hearing many of these details from him personally. He would 563 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,800 Speaker 2: add that Dwayne had found an unposted letter among Peters 564 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,560 Speaker 2: things and posted it himself to create confusion about when 565 00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:15,600 Speaker 2: the couple died. That letter the Framptons received in August 566 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:20,120 Speaker 2: of nineteen seventy nine, which temporarily staved off the family's fears. 567 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,080 Speaker 2: Both boys would also reveal that over the years, once 568 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 2: they reached adulthood, they both tried to go to the 569 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,839 Speaker 2: authorities in both the UK and the US about their 570 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:35,480 Speaker 2: father's crime, but their attempts had never reached anyone with 571 00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 2: knowledge of the case, falling victim to the same issues 572 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:43,360 Speaker 2: of jurisdiction and poor international interagency communication that had obstructed 573 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:47,840 Speaker 2: the case from the start. But back in that conference 574 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:51,080 Speaker 2: room in Manchester at the police station, the Farmers had 575 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:55,799 Speaker 2: heard enough. For the time being, this sounded like a 576 00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:01,880 Speaker 2: horror movie. It was almost unbelievable, but both Vince and 577 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:06,359 Speaker 2: Russell had witnessed it. Their stories matched up. All these 578 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,560 Speaker 2: years later, the Farmer's conviction that the boys held the 579 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:16,520 Speaker 2: key was confirmed. Finally they knew the truth. They were 580 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:22,759 Speaker 2: shell shocked, speechless and horrified, but they knew all they 581 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:50,399 Speaker 2: needed now was justice. With two willing witnesses, prosecutors would 582 00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:53,959 Speaker 2: have a decent case against Joyne. But the problem once 583 00:45:54,000 --> 00:46:01,000 Speaker 2: again was who could prosecute that is, jurisdiction. Various countries 584 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:05,480 Speaker 2: and justice departments went back and forth, the Brits, the Americans, 585 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,120 Speaker 2: and Belize, the last port where the victims were seen alive, 586 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,640 Speaker 2: although not the country where the crime took place, which 587 00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 2: would be Guatemala. Finally, they determined this American prosecutors could 588 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:23,759 Speaker 2: claim jurisdiction if the murders happened in open water and 589 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:27,600 Speaker 2: most importantly were committed by an American on a boat 590 00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:31,440 Speaker 2: owned by an American, with registration or proof that the 591 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,720 Speaker 2: American was indeed the owner of the vessel at the time. 592 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,680 Speaker 2: What they really needed then was proof that Dwayne owned 593 00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,919 Speaker 2: his boat. It seemed like it would be impossible to find, 594 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,120 Speaker 2: but Russell Boston had ended up with a lot of 595 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,360 Speaker 2: his father's possessions because his father would dump them with 596 00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:52,800 Speaker 2: him as he fled back and forth over the border 597 00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:58,120 Speaker 2: with Mexico avoiding the law. Among those possessions he found 598 00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:01,799 Speaker 2: photos of the trip to police, which showed Chris and 599 00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:05,960 Speaker 2: linked him to Dwayne and his boat. He had Chris's 600 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:10,160 Speaker 2: old records as in music records, which further linked Jain 601 00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:16,200 Speaker 2: to the crime. And on September sixteenth, twenty sixteen, wedged 602 00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:19,319 Speaker 2: among a pile of junk in his father's old briefcase, 603 00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:24,279 Speaker 2: he found a small creased document the title of the 604 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:30,799 Speaker 2: Justin B. Dayne's Boat. The case was getting tighter, the 605 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,400 Speaker 2: evidence was growing. All that was missing from the files 606 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,640 Speaker 2: were the dental exams matching the bodies found in Guatemala 607 00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,120 Speaker 2: with Chris and Petis in all records. No one could 608 00:47:41,120 --> 00:47:44,160 Speaker 2: find the file anywhere, not in the US, not in 609 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:48,719 Speaker 2: the UK, not with Inner Pol. The prosecution needed to 610 00:47:48,719 --> 00:47:57,239 Speaker 2: find the bodies, exhumed them again, and redo the examination. Unfortunately, 611 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:09,320 Speaker 2: even that was easier than done. The Porto Barrio cemetery, 612 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:12,360 Speaker 2: where Chris and Peter were buried back in the nineteen seventies, 613 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:18,160 Speaker 2: was overflowing with graves. They were often unmarked, and there 614 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:22,200 Speaker 2: was no clear map or clear organization. By the twenty tens, 615 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,759 Speaker 2: the FBI searched for Chris and Peter's crosses, but did 616 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,920 Speaker 2: not find them, and the search was called off in 617 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:34,120 Speaker 2: early November of twenty sixteen. It was a blow to 618 00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,400 Speaker 2: the case. Without bodies the ultimate proof of Chris and 619 00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:58,400 Speaker 2: Peter's death, there was less proof of murder too. Still, 620 00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,799 Speaker 2: prosecutors pushed on they'd pursue the case anyway. The next 621 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:08,800 Speaker 2: step was apprehending their suspect. For once, the California authorities 622 00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:13,080 Speaker 2: knew exactly where to make that arrest. Seventy four year 623 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,560 Speaker 2: old Dwayne wasn't somewhere on the road toward Mexico. Not 624 00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,560 Speaker 2: these days. He was in poor health and stuck in 625 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:25,760 Speaker 2: a nursing home in Eureka, California. On December one, twenty sixteen, 626 00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,640 Speaker 2: he was charged with the murders of Chris Farmer and 627 00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:36,160 Speaker 2: Peter Frampton and taken into custody. On December eighth, Dwayne 628 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:40,800 Speaker 2: was indicted. The trial date was set for the autumn 629 00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:45,279 Speaker 2: of twenty seventeen, expedited by a few factors, one the 630 00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,360 Speaker 2: Farmer family's decision not to seek the death penalty and 631 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:52,800 Speaker 2: the judge's knowledge that many participants in the case were elderly, 632 00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:57,200 Speaker 2: including the defendant, Audrey Farmer, and many of the witnesses 633 00:49:57,239 --> 00:50:00,920 Speaker 2: he called to speak about Dwayne. His parents and one 634 00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,719 Speaker 2: of her siblings had already passed. The Farmers prepared to 635 00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:09,120 Speaker 2: travel to California to give depositions on May sixth, including Audrey, 636 00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,920 Speaker 2: now ninety one years old. But Dwayne's health had been 637 00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:19,600 Speaker 2: deteriorating rapidly since his arrest. Around his seventy sixth birthday. 638 00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:24,080 Speaker 2: On March twentieth, twenty seventeen, things took a turn for 639 00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:29,600 Speaker 2: the worse. Then on April fifth, he began to refuse 640 00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:38,200 Speaker 2: medication and treatment. No kidney dialysis, no feeding tube. Two 641 00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:42,720 Speaker 2: weeks before the farmer's deposition trip to California, and five 642 00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,480 Speaker 2: months before the provisional trial date, on April twenty fourth, 643 00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:54,120 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen, Dwayne died. It was over for the law 644 00:50:54,280 --> 00:51:01,360 Speaker 2: at least there's no trial, there's no defendant. But for Penny, 645 00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:05,680 Speaker 2: this life shattering case would never really end, not now 646 00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:11,640 Speaker 2: when justice could never be served. In twenty eighteen, she 647 00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,840 Speaker 2: traveled to Guatemala with BBC reporters making a podcast about 648 00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:20,520 Speaker 2: her brother's case, and she succeeded where the FBI had failed. 649 00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:26,239 Speaker 2: Penny located Chris and Peter's graves in the Puerta Barrio cemetery, 650 00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:31,200 Speaker 2: just like she had located the entire Boston family on Facebook. 651 00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:35,880 Speaker 2: She made the trip to California to talk to Russell 652 00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:40,120 Speaker 2: in person too. She spoke with the prosecutors who had 653 00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:44,000 Speaker 2: fought beside her for justice, and Detective Amy Crosby of 654 00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:48,280 Speaker 2: the Missing Persons Unit at the Sacramento Police Department, thanking 655 00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:53,160 Speaker 2: them for their dedication, and then she used her training 656 00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,640 Speaker 2: as a journalist to write her book on the case, 657 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,200 Speaker 2: the one I've mentioned a few times, Dead in the Water. 658 00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:06,479 Speaker 2: Penny Farmer is an extraordinary woman. We'll be back after 659 00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,920 Speaker 2: the break with an interview with Penny Farmer herself. 660 00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:38,680 Speaker 1: Stay with us well, Hi, Penny. 661 00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:40,919 Speaker 2: I wanted to say, first of all, thank you so 662 00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,759 Speaker 2: much for agreeing to talk with us. Our listeners have 663 00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:47,320 Speaker 2: heard the story that you wrote about in your book, 664 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:52,600 Speaker 2: so they're somewhat apprized of this situation. It's a pretty 665 00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:57,359 Speaker 2: personal account, so I wanted to ask you first what 666 00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:01,880 Speaker 2: made you decide to actually write the story. 667 00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:06,319 Speaker 3: Despite being journalistically trained. Quite honestly, hadn't even occurred to 668 00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,840 Speaker 3: me at the initial outset of the investigation. It was 669 00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,640 Speaker 3: really only when my mother and I were constantly going 670 00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:18,319 Speaker 3: back and forth to Greater Manchester Police, you know, when 671 00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:22,319 Speaker 3: they were reopening the case after thirty eight years and 672 00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:27,640 Speaker 3: it was a conversation that I had with Mikayla Clinch, 673 00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:30,640 Speaker 3: detective from Mikayla Clinch, and she said to me, you know, 674 00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:33,319 Speaker 3: I assume you're going to write this up, you know, 675 00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:37,839 Speaker 3: And I just thought, well, yeah, actually, well why not, 676 00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,399 Speaker 3: you know, because as I say, I did train as 677 00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:44,720 Speaker 3: a journalist. But then, of course we got the terrible news, 678 00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:49,080 Speaker 3: you know, that Boston had committed suicide, and he did 679 00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,719 Speaker 3: commit suicide. There was no other way of dressing it up. 680 00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:57,719 Speaker 3: Then Russell reached out via Sacramento PD and said that 681 00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,640 Speaker 3: he wanted very much to be to Mom and I. 682 00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,239 Speaker 3: So it was at that point, you know, that we 683 00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,960 Speaker 3: got in touch and we had a very long skype 684 00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:12,719 Speaker 3: call with Russell, and obviously then it's sort of snowballed, 685 00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:18,640 Speaker 3: and so you know, I started really keeping more than 686 00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:21,680 Speaker 3: just notes, that started really writing the book at that point. Wow. 687 00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:26,200 Speaker 2: Actually, one of my questions was what was it like 688 00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,320 Speaker 2: to talk to those sons when we had. 689 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:33,880 Speaker 3: A skype call? It It was it was obviously the 690 00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:38,359 Speaker 3: most bizarre situation. And you know, all credit to my mother, 691 00:54:38,880 --> 00:54:42,279 Speaker 3: who at that stage was ninety one she's now ninety eight. 692 00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:47,040 Speaker 3: She was I mean, she's a very strong woman anyway. 693 00:54:47,160 --> 00:54:49,759 Speaker 3: But you know that there was my mother and I, 694 00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:51,600 Speaker 3: you know, one side of the camera and you know 695 00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:55,040 Speaker 3: when the camera went on because we hadn't aside from 696 00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:59,080 Speaker 3: his Facebook profile, we hadn't seen Russell Boston at all. 697 00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:05,520 Speaker 3: So it was a very weird experience. But it was 698 00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:09,920 Speaker 3: very pathetic, I think is probably the word. You know, 699 00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:15,080 Speaker 3: we both well. It was really more Russell telling us 700 00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:19,480 Speaker 3: exactly what happened on the boat, some of which has 701 00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:23,560 Speaker 3: gone in the book and some I've you know, held 702 00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:27,920 Speaker 3: back on for decency, Etceterually. You know, I think I 703 00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:33,319 Speaker 3: think I've written it enough to suggest probably you know, 704 00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,640 Speaker 3: what went on and the horror of it all without 705 00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:38,680 Speaker 3: going into too much graphic detail. 706 00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:44,239 Speaker 2: It seems like a big component of the journey that 707 00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:49,440 Speaker 2: was writing the book and talking about the case was 708 00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:52,360 Speaker 2: get kind of giving yourself closure. 709 00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:53,920 Speaker 1: Did it help with that? 710 00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,719 Speaker 3: I suppose so in many ways. And you know, I've 711 00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,680 Speaker 3: I feel I've become a lot closer to my brother, 712 00:55:59,719 --> 00:56:03,120 Speaker 3: and I've learned a lot more about him, and you 713 00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,319 Speaker 3: know a lot of his friends have come forward, which 714 00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:08,560 Speaker 3: has been fantastic really, and especially for my mum, it's 715 00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:11,080 Speaker 3: been a bit of it's just a funny word to use, 716 00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:12,600 Speaker 3: but you know it's been a bit of a gift 717 00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,680 Speaker 3: in her old age to sort of reconnect with him, 718 00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:20,279 Speaker 3: albeit in death. So I think, you know, in that sense, yes, 719 00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,600 Speaker 3: I think closure is a bit of an overused cliche, 720 00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:26,280 Speaker 3: to be honest, because I don't think you ever really 721 00:56:26,360 --> 00:56:26,960 Speaker 3: get over it. 722 00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:29,400 Speaker 1: You just sort of stir over the cracks really. 723 00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:34,760 Speaker 3: But you know, I'm able to talk quite freely without 724 00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:38,359 Speaker 3: getting upset about it now because you know, time does 725 00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:41,439 Speaker 3: move on, and you have you can't keep looking back, 726 00:56:41,560 --> 00:56:45,200 Speaker 3: and you know, I mean it was ghastly and you 727 00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:49,279 Speaker 3: know we've not had it easy even latterly, you know. 728 00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:50,200 Speaker 1: To get to the truth. 729 00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:52,319 Speaker 3: But but we got there in the end and we 730 00:56:52,440 --> 00:56:57,040 Speaker 3: now know you know what's happened, and indeed Vince and 731 00:56:57,080 --> 00:57:00,520 Speaker 3: Russell as well, you know our family and the family 732 00:57:00,800 --> 00:57:02,759 Speaker 3: that we're both in the same boat, you know, I 733 00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:05,239 Speaker 3: mean that that's the extraordinary nature of this story, that 734 00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,160 Speaker 3: two families on either side of the Atlantic. It's like 735 00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:14,320 Speaker 3: parallel lives really. But you know, we're all victims of Boston, 736 00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,240 Speaker 3: if you like, they've been through hell and back and 737 00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:24,040 Speaker 3: you know what absolutely ghastly experience they have suffered, you know, 738 00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:27,840 Speaker 3: but both to witness their murders and to lose them 739 00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:31,520 Speaker 3: on So you know, I'm very grateful to them for 740 00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:35,160 Speaker 3: being so open. And they didn't turn out the people 741 00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,760 Speaker 3: that possibly their father would have liked them to be, 742 00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:43,320 Speaker 3: you know, they did they didn't follow history and go 743 00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:46,080 Speaker 3: the same way as him. You know that they're good, 744 00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:47,080 Speaker 3: decent people. 745 00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:49,880 Speaker 2: Is there anything that you wanted to talk about that 746 00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:52,160 Speaker 2: we didn't ask about, or like, is there a final 747 00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:54,920 Speaker 2: word that you can get in there that you want 748 00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:55,880 Speaker 2: to make sure that we hear. 749 00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:59,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I just hope that no other families 750 00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:02,680 Speaker 3: have to go through what we've gone through. But I 751 00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,760 Speaker 3: you know, one would hope with modern day communications and 752 00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:12,160 Speaker 3: you know, I hope hopefully better reporting and better systems 753 00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:15,000 Speaker 3: in place that people wouldn't have. 754 00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:17,400 Speaker 1: To go through all that, you know, they. 755 00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:20,160 Speaker 3: Wouldn't have to wait forty plus years to find out 756 00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:21,720 Speaker 3: what had happened to their loved ones. 757 00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:03,919 Speaker 2: For more information about this case and others we cover 758 00:59:04,040 --> 00:59:09,200 Speaker 2: on the show, visit Diversionaudio dot com. Sign up for 759 00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:12,920 Speaker 2: Diversion's newsletter and be among the first to hear about 760 00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:16,480 Speaker 2: special behind the scenes features with the hosts and actors 761 00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:20,160 Speaker 2: from Diversion's podcasts, more shows you'll love from Diversion and 762 00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:24,320 Speaker 2: our partners, and other exclusive tidbits you can't get anywhere else. 763 00:59:26,080 --> 00:59:28,520 Speaker 2: I'd also like to shout out a few key sources 764 00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:31,000 Speaker 2: that made it possible for me to tell this week's story. 765 00:59:31,320 --> 00:59:34,160 Speaker 2: First off, Penny Farmer's wonderful book Dead in the Water, 766 00:59:34,640 --> 00:59:37,880 Speaker 2: My forty year search for My Brother's Killer. Also the 767 00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:42,640 Speaker 2: excellent BBC podcast Paradise, which gives a ton of fascinating 768 00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:46,120 Speaker 2: detail on the case. And finally, I want to shout 769 00:59:46,120 --> 00:59:49,440 Speaker 2: out local news in the UK and especially around Manchester, 770 00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:54,880 Speaker 2: where the story has been covered substantially. The greatest true 771 00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,480 Speaker 2: crime stories ever told. Is a production of Diversion Audio. 772 00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:04,480 Speaker 2: Your host is me Mary Kay mcbraer. This episode was 773 01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:09,000 Speaker 2: written by our editorial director Nora Battel. Our show was 774 01:00:09,000 --> 01:00:14,480 Speaker 2: produced and directed by Mark Francis. Our development team is 775 01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:20,280 Speaker 2: Emma Dumouth and Jacob Bronstein. Theme music by Tyler Cash. 776 01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:25,480 Speaker 2: Executive producers Jacob Bronstein, Mark Francis and Scott Waxman. 777 01:00:56,160 --> 01:01:00,200 Speaker 1: Diversion Audio