Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2: Let's break down the presidential debate from last night with
Speaker 2: Vivek Ramaswami, a former Republican candidate himself. He joins me
Speaker 2: now from Atlanta. Mister Ramaswami, good morning to you this
Speaker 2: Morningberg Technology. We're a technology show, and I've wanted to
Speaker 2: ask you to come on following the debate because of
Speaker 2: your background, because of the reporting of your relationship with
Speaker 2: former President Trump and the Trump campaign team. But we
Speaker 2: should talk about last night, So the floor is yours.
Speaker 2: Your reaction to that debate.
Speaker 3: Well, look, I was in Atlanta last night, got back
Speaker 3: to my home in Columbus today, and after sleeping on it,
Speaker 3: my conclusion is the same as what we saw last night,
Speaker 3: which is this was sad for the United States of
Speaker 3: America to see the current President, Joe Biden in the
Speaker 3: mental state that he is actually in.
Speaker 4: There was a lot of joking.
Speaker 3: About drug testing or were they going to drug him up?
Speaker 3: It looked more like he had a lobotomy, and I
Speaker 3: just think that that's a sad thing, speaking as an
Speaker 3: American regardles of partisanship, when you think about the country
Speaker 3: that has produced the greatness of innovation and the leaders
Speaker 3: leading companies in the private sector. To see the person
Speaker 3: who's leading the federal government himself be as absent as
Speaker 3: he was yesterday, I think is really a damning indictment
Speaker 3: of the.
Speaker 4: Modern Democratic Party the president.
Speaker 2: Yep, mister Ramswami, may I just jump in, and it's
Speaker 2: interesting that that you ran as as a president's candidate
Speaker 2: for the Republican Party. You you're representing former President Trump,
Speaker 2: but you started by speaking about President Biden's performance.
Speaker 1: Many are frustrated this morning.
Speaker 2: That we actually didn't hear any answers to the questions
Speaker 2: posed to former President Trump about what he would do
Speaker 2: if re elected, what some of his policy platforms were.
Speaker 2: What did you learn about what former President Trump might
Speaker 2: do were he to be re elected to the White House.
Speaker 3: Well, he asked me about my impressions, and I think
Speaker 3: the number one most salient thing about the debate for
Speaker 3: anybody who watched it was in need the surprise of
Speaker 3: Biden's performance, which is why I can't on it in
Speaker 3: response to your question, But I agree with you it's
Speaker 3: much more productive to talk about the policy vision of
Speaker 3: the man who's likely to be the next president, which
Speaker 3: is Donald Trump, and I think one of the things
Speaker 3: we took away from yesterday was talking about the revival
Speaker 3: of American success and a focus on the economy. The
Speaker 3: fact of the matter is President Trump, I think demonstrated
Speaker 3: that despite being a member of a different economic class
Speaker 3: than most Americans, is a billionaire, he is still somebody
Speaker 3: who understands prices have gone up but wages have remained flat.
Speaker 3: And I think that part really landed. I wish the
Speaker 3: debate had gone into greater depth on policy. Frankly, if
Speaker 3: Biden had shown up with greater mental acuity, we might
Speaker 3: have had that opportunity. In many cases, the things he
Speaker 3: said were incoherent. That stopped that debate for me as
Speaker 3: useful as it could. But what do we learned last
Speaker 3: night and then the combination of recent speeches that President
Speaker 3: Trump has given. Economic growth is a core objective for
Speaker 3: Donald Trump. That's not a left leaning message or right
Speaker 3: leaning message. Economic growth is an inherent and worthy objective.
Speaker 3: From bringing down the tax burden to the regulatory burden,
Speaker 3: to drilling for oil and natural gas and increasing the
Speaker 3: supply of energy to bring down costs, those are core
Speaker 3: issues that I think matter not only to business owners,
Speaker 3: and economically minded voters. It's a factor that matters to
Speaker 3: all voters. And that was one of the more powerful
Speaker 3: things that came out of last night was the discussion
Speaker 3: about the economy and the economic vision for the.
Speaker 4: Next four years.
Speaker 2: Mister ramswamme, may I just point out what you said
Speaker 2: on prices and also wage inflation. You said prices have
Speaker 2: gone up, what wages have remained flat? That is no
Speaker 2: longer true if you look today. We saw inflation in
Speaker 2: May down fractionally, almost comman to be, but wages were
Speaker 2: up seven tenths of a percent. I just want to
Speaker 2: get the latest dates to me out.
Speaker 3: Let me just comment on that in direct response to
Speaker 3: so your numbers, guy, I like that, as you well know.
Speaker 4: I believe you well know.
Speaker 3: Inflation is accumulative, right, So that is the inflation rate.
Speaker 3: But inflation over the course of the last several years,
Speaker 3: you want to look at actual mini consumer goods and
Speaker 3: products are up by over fifty percent since the.
Speaker 4: Time Biden took office. How much does a cart and
Speaker 4: a egg cost, how much does a car cost? How
Speaker 4: much is your electric bill? Those are undoubtedly higher than
Speaker 4: when Joe Biden took office.
Speaker 3: And it is a hard fact that we just have
Speaker 3: not gone up at the same rate. So I don't
Speaker 3: want to play this verbal jiu jitsu of the last
Speaker 3: month's numbers. If you want to get into facts, I'm
Speaker 3: all in favor of it. Those are the hard, indisputable facts,
Speaker 3: and we don't have to argue the facts because most
Speaker 3: Americans who pay those bills already have a deep understanding
Speaker 3: of that, and I do think that that is going
Speaker 3: to be a guiding force in what we see this November.
Speaker 2: Mister Ramasami, you and I both agreed on one thing,
Speaker 2: which is that we will talk about technology and policy
Speaker 2: from it. From a technology standpoint, you mentioned energy and
Speaker 2: oil in particular. One of the things that I reported
Speaker 2: was that you act as almost an intermediary between former
Speaker 2: President Trump and Elon Musk, and it seems as if
Speaker 2: the former president in Elon Musk are now speaking, or
Speaker 2: at least have spoken. Where do you see them finding
Speaker 2: middle ground and an influence if former President Trump were
Speaker 2: to return to the White House.
Speaker 3: I respect the two of them individually, both as people
Speaker 3: who have succeeded in this country through the private sector.
Speaker 3: I think we all share a belief, all three of us,
Speaker 3: that we need more of those voices in American politics
Speaker 3: driving change, not as professional politicians, but people who look
Speaker 3: at political problems through the lens of an entrepreneur and
Speaker 3: a business leader objectively.
Speaker 4: And so I think that.
Speaker 3: That's a common cause that I would say is form
Speaker 3: my basis for the friendship with both of them.
Speaker 4: The reality is one.
Speaker 3: Of the things that we're all rooting for as well
Speaker 3: is not only an economic revitalization of the US, but
Speaker 3: a revitalization of innovation in the United States of America.
Speaker 3: I think we have seen a decline in the rate
Speaker 3: of innovation in the US, but that is ultimately our
Speaker 3: competitive advantage in the end is the ultimate innovation and
Speaker 3: the innovative spark of starting the greatest companies known to mankind,
Speaker 3: generally here in the United States, which then has collateral
Speaker 3: benefits of creating jobs and creating wealth. But it's also
Speaker 3: the founding spark of American exceptionalism. Right Our founding fathers
Speaker 3: were the likes of Time Thomas Jefferson, who not only
Speaker 3: wrote the Declaration of Independence, he also invented the swivel
Speaker 3: chair and the polygraph test.
Speaker 4: Benjamin Franklin.
Speaker 3: I think of Elon Musk as a modern Benjamin Franklin
Speaker 3: type of figure invented the lightning rod and the Franklin stove.
Speaker 3: Yet these were also the people who led the country
Speaker 3: politically and set it into motion. So I think we
Speaker 3: have a chance to revive that seventeen seventy six kind
Speaker 3: of spirit. And I think there's a role for a
Speaker 3: modern Washington, a modern Jefferson, a modern Benjamin Franklin. I
Speaker 3: think in many ways, Donald Trump is stepping up to
Speaker 3: be the modern George Washington of our time. Elon Musk
Speaker 3: reminds me of the Benjamin Franklins of their day, and
Speaker 3: so I think we found different common cause in our
Speaker 3: love of this country to revitalize that founding spirit, even
Speaker 3: though each of us have had our own successes separately
Speaker 3: in the private sector.
Speaker 4: And I'm biased, but I'm of.
Speaker 3: The view that we need actually more of those people
Speaker 3: stepping up to play different roles in defining the future
Speaker 3: of our politics in America.
Speaker 2: Mister Ramswami, can I ask, just very quickly, as a
Speaker 2: matter of checking, have you spoken to the former president
Speaker 2: since last night?
Speaker 4: I haven't spoken to him since last night. No.
Speaker 2: The reason I ask is about your role with him
Speaker 2: directly and also his team you know, one of the
Speaker 2: areas of reporting of focuses been discussions you may have
Speaker 2: had with him around crypto and the role that crypto
Speaker 2: may play if former President Trump returned to the White House.
Speaker 2: Could you tell me a bit about that and the
Speaker 2: conversations that you've had.
Speaker 3: Some of that started actually after I left the race.
Speaker 3: I left the race after the Iowa caucus, but before
Speaker 3: the New Hampshire primary, and I could tell you one
Speaker 3: part that was sort of totally public on that stage
Speaker 3: was in New Hampshire, I began my conversations with Donald
Speaker 3: Trump about why in my campaign I had been opposed
Speaker 3: to a central bank digital currency as CBDC. And one
Speaker 3: of the things that impressed me about President Trump was
Speaker 3: this intellectual curiosity about that issue. I've met a lot
Speaker 3: of politicians, including Republicans, who have heard the vague acronyms CBDC,
Speaker 3: but don't know the first thing about what it actually means,
Speaker 3: but they pretend like they do. Donald Trump was the
Speaker 3: opposite of that. He actually said, what the heck is that?
Speaker 3: Tell me what it is? And then he asked, what
Speaker 3: are the best arguments for why they're actually supporting it?
Speaker 3: And I thought that was a mark of a good
Speaker 3: leader who wanted to understand the best arguments for the
Speaker 3: other side, and later on he said it from the
Speaker 3: campaign stage and from an event, So I feel comfortable
Speaker 3: sharing this part of it where he came out then
Speaker 3: after a thoughtful consideration, after careful study of the issue
Speaker 3: of his opposition to a central bank digital currency, and
Speaker 3: he explained why.
Speaker 4: It's a threat to liberty.
Speaker 3: The flip side of that is why you might favor
Speaker 3: decentralization and alternative options from people just staying tethered to
Speaker 3: the dollar of holding the Fed accountable by having other
Speaker 3: options in.
Speaker 4: The marketplace of alternative currencies.
Speaker 3: So I think there's been a number of productive conversations
Speaker 3: he and I have had. And one of the things
Speaker 3: that I look at this for is it's not a sector.
Speaker 4: I don't look at cryptocurrency as a sector.
Speaker 3: To the contrary, I look at the first principles of
Speaker 3: the United States of America, founded on competition and choice
Speaker 3: and financial freedom, and I think those principles are certainly
Speaker 3: what motivated my interest in these issues in the campaign,
Speaker 3: and I think that's what's also helped a lot of
Speaker 3: my conversations with the President Trump. Is let's start with
Speaker 3: first principle, what's right for America, not what's good for
Speaker 3: one sector or another. But then let's adopt the kinds
Speaker 3: of policies that actually allow America to remain the beachhead
Speaker 3: of innovation rather than playing from behind.
Speaker 2: Mister Ramaswami, just one item on the idea. The president
Speaker 2: has to block anything or anyone from doing CBDC. I
Speaker 2: think the FED has said clearly many times that it's
Speaker 2: not going to introduce one unless mandated by Congress. Now
Speaker 2: that's the Fed's position on that. I want a little
Speaker 2: bit about artificial and just.
Speaker 3: Since we're closing the loop on that, Janet Yellen has
Speaker 3: certainly stood for her advocacy in the executive branch, off
Speaker 3: in sponsors legislation that goes through Congress.
Speaker 4: That's other things work in Washington, DC.
Speaker 3: But I do think it's good to have a president,
Speaker 3: one way or another that's clear about his position, and
Speaker 3: I think that Donald Trump adopted the right position in
Speaker 3: his clarity.
Speaker 2: I would like to talk about artificial intelligence, and I
Speaker 2: appreciate that this was not a question posed last night,
Speaker 2: but any of the policy questions posed weren't really answered
Speaker 2: by either participant. But when former President Trump was in
Speaker 2: We weren't talking about the idea of an existential threat
Speaker 2: from a large language model in the many hundreds of
Speaker 2: billions of parameters. We weren't talking about the need to
Speaker 2: regulate AI. So former President Trump doesn't have the experience
Speaker 2: of that. But do you think that he has the
Speaker 2: sort of academic study enough or he's thought about it
Speaker 2: because going into office if he were to regain the
Speaker 2: White House would be an issue to consider.
Speaker 3: I do wish this had been a topic both of
Speaker 3: that debate and even in the Republican primary debates, where
Speaker 3: this issue did not come up once as well, even
Speaker 3: though I suggested it many times. It's an important issue
Speaker 3: for the future, and it falls outside of traditional partisan boundaries, So.
Speaker 4: I'm glad you're bringing it up.
Speaker 3: Is President Trump going to claim to be a domain
Speaker 3: expert in AI or something that he's not a domain
Speaker 3: expert in knowing that's.
Speaker 4: What I love about him. But I think he's going
Speaker 4: to be able.
Speaker 3: To attrack the best minds around him to set rational
Speaker 3: policy that at once allows the US to be a
Speaker 3: leader in innovation while at the same time acknowledging a
Speaker 3: different kind of risk than we've faced in the past
Speaker 3: from different types of generative AI.
Speaker 4: Personally, one of the things that I think.
Speaker 3: Makes a lot of sense as a first step rather
Speaker 3: than creating some sort of central government bureaucracy to handle this,
Speaker 3: is just treat it the same way you treat other sectors,
Speaker 3: just in the same way that you're a chemical's manufacturer
Speaker 3: and you can't dump in somebody else's river.
Speaker 4: If you're the developer of a.
Speaker 3: Protocol or an algorithm that has unpredictable but nonetheless realized
Speaker 3: negative effects, that you're liable for those effects. Basic principles
Speaker 3: of the law that we already use elsewhere, but to
Speaker 3: use them in this new domain as well.
Speaker 4: And what I have seen from.
Speaker 3: President Trump, it's the same question that came up even
Speaker 3: in the last topic we discussed, is a level of
Speaker 3: intellectual curiosity somebody who has been an executive, somebody who,
Speaker 3: unlike Joe Biden frankly, from seeing what we saw last night,
Speaker 3: is still intellectually with it enough to be able to
Speaker 3: go deep on the details, attract the best people, and
Speaker 3: make the rational policy decision. Not in an ideological or
Speaker 3: ideologue driven manner when it comes to AI, but in
Speaker 3: a manner of this it's driven by our actual understanding
Speaker 3: of the facts, and so I do have confidence in
Speaker 3: his ability to lead.
Speaker 2: Here, mister Ramaswami, I'm sorry to instruct you a shorter time,
Speaker 2: and I want to make the most of it. Have
Speaker 2: you been asked to submit documentation for vetting for a
Speaker 2: potential cabinet position in the event of a Trump white House.
Speaker 4: We've got a lot of conversations about the future.
Speaker 3: I have not been asked to be the vice president,
Speaker 3: but whatever it is, I'm going to look at what
Speaker 3: maximizes impact on the country and how we make sure
Speaker 3: that second Trump term is as good as it possibly
Speaker 3: can be. And I am hopeful that we're going to
Speaker 3: see the strongest ticket not just of this century, but
Speaker 3: of my lifetime. And I think after last night, we
Speaker 3: have a unique opportunity in this country.
Speaker 4: For this not to just be a fifty point one election.
Speaker 3: We've had a lot of thin margin, thin ice elections.
Speaker 3: This could be a Reagan nineteen eighty nineteen eighty four
Speaker 3: style landslide, remixing minorities, Hispanics, Blacks, young people, creating a
Speaker 3: new coalition in this country that's pro American and goes
Speaker 3: beyond the boundaries of the traditional Republican Party wall streams
Speaker 3: from those America First principles that Trump ran on.
Speaker 1: So that's what I'm rooting for. I appreciate that answer.
Speaker 2: I am out of time, but I need to ask
Speaker 2: you about BuzzFeed, but also the idea I'm being told
Speaker 2: over and over your interests in a media company something
Speaker 2: like a vice. You know you've been buying up BuzzFeed shares.
Speaker 2: It's reported your statement, what happens? What are you aiming
Speaker 2: to do here?
Speaker 3: Well, look, I'm now the second largest Class A shareholder
Speaker 3: at BuzzFeed. I've been very public in my letter that
Speaker 3: this is a company that has struggled and failed for
Speaker 3: reasons that I still think are fixable.
Speaker 4: A lot of people know what BuzzFeed is.
Speaker 3: They don't know what the what the brand actually stands for,
Speaker 3: and I think they have a historic opportunity to do
Speaker 3: what many in the mainstream media have an opportunity to do,
Speaker 3: build a brand centered on trust and the pursuit of
Speaker 3: truth by saying that you know what we platform all
Speaker 3: voices left right, doesn't matter across the cultural spectrum, and
Speaker 3: use that to define a coherent and powerful brand that
Speaker 3: I think audiences are hungry for, especially of younger audiences
Speaker 3: today that are sick and tired of yesterday's legacy, but
Speaker 3: want authenticity, want to trust content creators.
Speaker 4: So I've given in the context.
Speaker 3: Of the letter that I sent to their board, I've
Speaker 3: also proposed three directors.
Speaker 1: Mister Rames joined the board, a.
Speaker 4: Direction strategy that I hope will create.
Speaker 3: The value of a company that sadly has I'm sorry
Speaker 3: to cut you off.
Speaker 1: We are out of time. Did that, Ramaswami? Thank you.
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg